Common Shit Tests

  • I bet you have a girl for every night of the week.

This shit test, and permutations thereof (“How many girls do you pick up in bars?”), is something you’ll hear most often from younger girls who are used to having game run on them, but fall for it every time anyhow. These are the girls who secretly love that you’re a great seducer, and, ironically, want you to prove it by denying you’re a great seducer. Of course, it’s not as simple as that; the form of denial girls admire is evasion, not defensiveness. Possible answer: “I’m a romantic at heart. If some women are drawn to that, I can understand why.” Or you could try pseudo-redemption: “I used to be the biggest player, but that lifestyle doesn’t do it for me anymore. It’s part of my past, now.” The cocky, unserious answer: “One billion served!” Notice the common thread — you never really answer her question.

  • You’re going to buy a girl a drink, right? That’s so sweet!

Alert the media! Girls don’t get attracted to men who buy them drinks! It’s a mystery to me why guys still do this; it seems to me the primal sort of man (think military, or Ibanker) is most likely to try to impress girls by lavishing goods on them. Nah, it’s just a common shit test girls throw out to see how needy you are. The faster you thrust a drink into her hand, the needier you will appear. Your answer: “I don’t buy drinks for girls I hardly know/I’m getting to know, but you can buy me one.”

  • Are you always this big an asshole?

Context is important with this one. If you’ve been running tight game and her shiny eyes betray her lustful yearning, this shit test is basically a green light to continue being an asshole. Answer: “You can’t get enough of it.” Otherwise, eject. You fucked up.

  • Hey, can we move the date/change the time? My cat yoga class is that night.

Sometimes this is a legitimate excuse. Most of the time, it’s not. If she agreed on a meeting time with you, she was aware of her schedule. Therefore, any last second changes by her should trigger your BS alarm. You’d be surprised how many girls instinctually default to this blatant shit test as the date approaches. They can’t help themselves. They’re programmed to behave like a flake to ensure your seed can jump their hurdles and land with a satisfying thud in their eggs. (I’ve found a helpful interpretation of courtship is to imagine your sperms are salmon swimming upstream against the torrent of bullshit she sends your way, including hungry bears.) Best answer: “I can meet you at X time, same place. If that’s no good for you, we can cancel.” Your goal is to instill the fear of loss in her, and let her know it’s her actions costing her the opportunity to bask for a few hours in your virile glory.

  • You move pretty quick/I’m not that kind of girl.

This faux indignation isn’t as common as it used to be, mostly because the majority of city girls are sluts, and they know that we know this. To plead otherwise would be the height of absurd hypocrisy. It’s over ladies; your carefully tended modesty is a relic from a bygone era. If anything, the more testosterone-y variety DC lawyer/bartender chick will *brag* about her looseness. But since blissfully unaware retreads still exist, you should be prepared for this shit test. It’s critically important that you don’t fall into her trap and try to defend your “honor”. Best answer: Nothing. Ignore her protestations for what they are — decoy flares. Playful answer: “You should see my finishing move.”

  • I love public sex/doing it upside down/kinky sex with ice cubes and strawberries.

It’s a trap! If you haven’t had sex with her yet, you should avoid getting too excited when she starts bragging about her sexual dynamism. She’s smoking you out of your burrow with a tasty treat. The faster you pounce on it, the quicker she pegs you as a sexually undernourished beta. Acceptable answer: “Whoa, not so fast. Do you talk like this with your mother?” Or: “That’s cool. But I need to be wined and dined first.” Cocky answer: “Hey, are you auditioning for the Maury Povich show?”

There will be future installments of “Common Shit Tests”.





Comments


  1. this is how we do it………….biatch……

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  2. “you’re not going [gargle] gonna cum in my mouth are you?” We know the tests and we know the answers. Give us something we haven’t seen.

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  3. Extremely common…

    I bet you have a girl for every night of the week.
    -Employ some cocky answer that comes to mind.

    You’re going to buy a girl a drink, right? That’s so sweet!
    -I usually do the same or if I’m not tryin to get too hammered or really dig the girl I might offer to share a drink

    You move pretty quick/I’m not that kind of girl.
    -Usually give a sly grin and continue onward

    Are you always this big an asshole?
    -Most common and they love it. Last week I was getting a round of drinks with a friend’s gf at the bar who I met once and she says “You’re cute but kind of an asshole… And I kind of like it.” I left soon afterward…

    Btw, Clarendon is a g’damn wasteland on Thursdays during the Winter. I’ve never seen it so barren over the past few years like it is this season.

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  4. I love public sex/doing it upside down/kinky sex with ice cubes and strawberries.

    It’s a trap! If you haven’t had sex with her yet, you should avoid getting too excited when she starts bragging about her sexual dynamism. She’s smoking you out of your burrow with a tasty treat.

    Not necessarily. In the mid-1990’s I was on my second or third date with a woman who told me that during her college days she had sometimes gone to class topless during warm weather.* Being that this was before our dating relationship had gone beyond chaste kissing, I was very much taken aback at her remark. It seemed way out of place.

    Whatever her motives might have been, the fact remains that within a couple more dates we were hiding the salami.

    * = she had gone to a small, very liberal hippie-ish college in the middle to late 1980’s, so this is not as improbable as it sounds.

    Peter

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  5. Roissy, dear sir: Noted

    Thanks.

    Salaam
    Mu

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  6. “Who are you here with?” may seem like an innocent question, but she’s actually testing your social proof. If I’m going out by myself it’s one of the questions I least want to hear.

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  7. the more installments of shit tests the better!

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  8. Also – She ends a one sentence shit test with a physical motion to get up from table leave.

    Response: “Sit down!” in your best “daddy tone”

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  9. You also should deflect interview-style questions with humour, especially if they start coming in series (what do you do, where did you go to college, do you have brothers and sisters)

    Not because you have anything to hide, but because their mundaneness can become a wet blanket.

    Of course, sometimes she’ll ask you with genuine getting-to-know you intentions but other times it’s her trying to qualify you.

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  10. Example: in response to “what do you do?” a friend of mine who is an accountant (boooring, right?) once fixed a girl with a wise-guy grin told her that he keeps an eye on the boss’s money and gets a nice cut for himself.

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  11. we want more!

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  12. For the player/quickness tests I like asking what someone did to her to make her so suspicious. Also answering a question that you would prefer not answer honestly with “I don’t think it matters” or “I’d rather not say”.

    I hate the asking them to buy you a drink. I think it’s cheesy and doesn’t get good results. It’s a cheap common joke that isn’t terribly funny to anyone. If they ask me to to buy them a drink I’ll say “Of course not.” I also like asking what they drink this is a good test, I’ll make an appraisal of their character based on the drink. If she says something like grey goose and cranberry juice I’ll say “I see and what do you drink if you’re spending your own money?” When I had more money I would order the drink they wanted and either drink it myself or give it to another girl and smile and say “You shouldn’t have to ask.”

    The I’m not that kind of girl response is “Then what kind of girl are you?”

    On the reschedualing thing I’d say “I’ll not be second to yoga.”

    I prefer honesty without candor. If you don’t want to tell a women something it’s probably best to just tell her that you don’t want to tell her. In courtship I think it is easy to fall in the trap of becoming the back of a baseball card. A list of facts about yourself that may or may not be flattering and if they are flattering they might come off as you trying to impress her which doesn’t work for you. Silence and evasion allows her to evaluate you on your conduct in her presence which is ultimately a better way to get to know a person anyways.

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  13. I prefer honesty without candor.

    In the end, the right approach to shit tests depends on the guys’ general personality and comportment.

    Here are some various types, at least as far as I can picture them: the clownish fast-talker (Mystery); the dagger-eyed joker (Roissy), the honest straight-shooter (T/Ricky), the coy seducer (DA, if he learned game); the worldly aristocrat (El Guapo) and so on.

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  14. This is some good info, guys. By all means, keep it comin’.

    Salaam
    Mu

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  15. PA:

    What kind of bullshit list is that? The only one of those who is well-known (and who’s exploits can be validated) is Mystery, who, after all, sells best-selling books. The other guys are just unknown internet entities. And David Alexander is a mental case who will end up shooting up the post office he’ll be working at in a few years, if he doesn’t get some relief (through either institutionalization or mail-order sex slave).

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  16. Photon: They weren’t necessarily listed as examples of accomplished PUAs. I don’t know any of these guys in person.

    I used their online personae as examples of certain types of personalities to show that there are various styles of deflecting shit test.

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  17. @ michael

    i imagine that the approach you’re advocating would work for girls who are already into you. what about those who are still making up their minds? you might come across as aloof and mysterious or you might come across as creepy and socially awkward.

    obviously, this is hard to convey across a blog comment, but you’re responses seem to lack a necessary playfulness.

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  18. @ michael

    i imagine that the approach you’re advocating would work for girls who are already into you. what about those who are still making up their minds? you might come across as aloof and mysterious or you might come across as creepy and socially awkward.

    obviously, this is hard to convey across a blog comment, but you’re responses seem to lack a necessary playfulness.

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  19. on December 17, 2008 at 3:05 pm The V Manifesto

    The most common shit test I get when trying to swoop fly girls like supermodels on Brazilian beaches or other assorted international and tropic locations is “You’re a ‘millionaire playboy hustler’ who comments daily on blogs?”. I usually have no defense…except my $10,000 custom suit and dope watch made out of enriched Uranium. Holla.

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  20. HB at a party: “so, what do you do, elchief?”
    elchief: “I’m unemployed and homeless”
    elchief finger bangs her in the bathroom a half hour later

    HB: “can you buy me a driiiiiiiink?”
    elchief: “what, are you unemployed?”
    elchief gets handjob later

    Now, this one fucked me up:

    drunk HB: “I’m crazy about you. CRAZY. please move back to town”
    elchief: “we’ll see”
    20 min later, drunk HB: “you’re the shallowest person i’ve ever met” (no context)

    wtf does one do there?!

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  21. “I bet you have a girl for every night of the week.”

    Super common. Especially if you Game is coming across TOO smooth.

    You right. Never answer the question. Something simple like “I travel a lot” will suffice.

    “You’re going to buy a girl a drink, right? That’s so sweet!”

    Common Pick up Artist Theory is 100% against buying girls drinks. I really don’t think this one is as crucial as people make it out to be.

    Acting like money is no object never hurts (which for me is easy since it is no object). And having a girl get a little more uninhibited by alcohol will never hurt your cause.

    I really see this “never by girls a drink” phenomenon a reactionary move by Guys who have been schooled for years by girls who they bought drinks for and never swooped them. In fact, I would bet my last dollar on it.

    I have bought “the right” girls drinks for years and I have always swooped girls. But then again, I don’t think my Game works for everyone. I wear suits costing 2 dimes on the daily.

    Furthermore, High quality, rich girls from good families (read: Daughters of famous families, or Forbes 400 daughters) are going to expect you to show a certain level of class. Buying drinks included.

    Using Pick up Artist “tricks” doesn’t always breach the class chasm. PUA moves on middle class suburban girls works like a charm.

    Many times I think PUA theory is for the lowest common denominator.

    Which most guys are happy swooping.

    I’m not.

    – MPM

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  22. “Best answer: “I can meet you at X time, same place. If that’s no good for you, we can cancel.”

    Also, commonly referred to as the “take away”. Very effective on ALL girls.

    “I love public sex/doing it upside down/kinky sex with ice cubes and strawberries.”

    Your right, it is a trap. Guys always fall for this. Guys also fall for faux-lesbian kissing on dancefloors between girls.

    Want to witness it? Go to Las Vegas.

    Guys get played like suckers more often than the craps tables.

    Ignore it always.

    Once you don’t fall for it, girls will come to you.

    And there you have it.

    – MPM

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  23. other shit tests i’ve been exposed to:

    – bitch shows up an hour late (cancel via text after 20 min. “gonna meet a friend at X, let’s reschedule”)

    – bitch cancels date at last minute. tries to reschedule. (tell her you’ll talk to her next week, then don’t. but be friendly when she calls)

    – bitch asks whether you want to get married and have babies, like first date (“ya, when i’m old”)

    hb: “i bet you say that to all the girls”
    ec: “nope, just every other one”

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  24. *Mu busts a serious gut after reading Photon and El Chief* LOL!!!

    Great fellas. Good ammo y’all giving up, too. I’m taking it all in. El Chief, your parting shot was on the money.

    Salaam
    Mu/Obsidian

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  25. Lance: I think your partially right there are a couple other things at play though that play up the mystery and play down the creepiness. One is when I say something harsh I smile. Second I wouldn’t pull some of the harsher stuff with a girl who wasn’t really beautiful. I don’t really bother with girls who aren’t sort of stunning. I’m really only interested in terribly beautiful girls. This is not a boast, it is more that I have very high standards and am willing (not all that infrequently) to do without entirely.

    Obviously different things work for different people. If I go playful it comes across as too goofy. That’s just me.

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  26. on December 17, 2008 at 4:02 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Common Shit Tests in a long term relationship…

    “Do you think my sister/best friend is more attractive than me?”

    “Do I look fat in these jeans?”

    “Where were you last night? Who were you out with? What was her name?”

    “We never do anything together anymore!”

    “You don’t spend enough time with me!”

    “I’m hungry.”

    “All you want me for is sex!”

    “Is that (sex) all you ever think about?!”

    I spent years failing these common shit tests, and almost got divorced more than a few times.

    After reading about game and applying the techniques, these shit tests that usually turned into huge fights and living in utter fear of her passive aggressive bouts, are now opportunities to inspire and maintain attraction.

    You know you’re doing everything right when your wife/girlfriend calls you a jerk right before she rips your clothes off….

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  27. Mike Foody,
    Yup, you’re on it, that’s what Neg Theory is really all about; the hotter the gal, the more you neg. And yea, always smile when you do it.

    As for having standards, no need to apologize in the least for it. The way I see it, one doesn’t need Game to grab up Mediocrity. I’ve always been a picky person from the get go, and moreso in recent times. Plus, it gives you mad DHV/SP because you’ll become known for having high quality standards when it comes to Women. Other Women like that and will recognize.

    Salaam
    Mu

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  28. “All you want me for is sex!”

    damn straight I want you for sex. Would you rather I wanted someone else for sex?

    “Is that (sex) all you ever think about?!”

    if you’re doing your job right it should be.

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  29. Dave From Hawaii — Don’t leave us in suspense, man. Share your new Game-inspired responses to those classic married-couple shit tests.

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  30. You’ll probably cover this sometime in the series, but a really common one I get is complimenting me on something desirable. E.g., “Hey, you’re cuuuuute!” “Omigod you’re such a great dancerrr!” Young girls are much more direct in their shit tests.

    The best response is to feed them their own poison, flipping the frame. “Oh I bet you say that to every guy.” Or, “It’s all about looks with you girls. You’re worse than guys — you should be ashamed of yourselves.” Or, “You’re shameless — you should value me for my intelligence and charming personality.” Obviously with a grin, not a serious scolding look.

    Then they’ll get defensive, “No! No, reallyyy! I’m so not fake like that! You can trust me!!!”

    They’re just trying to see if you’re going to lap up their free compliment, like “Dude, a girl just said something nice about me! It’s my lucky day!” = “I’m a big fat loser!”

    About four years ago when I started to get noticed, I actually did lap it up, but as of two and half years ago, it’s old hat. If someone is starting out on a PUA transformation deal, when some girl lobs a compliment your way, just think “Bitches tell me that shit all the time.” Boosts the immune system.

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  31. MQ,
    Hmm, interesting “defences”. But I’ve found that turning the tables works very well. For example, I put it out there upfront that nothing’s happening on the first date, or once they give me 3 or 4 IOIs I’ll tell her to get her mind out of the gutter, stuff like that. Lots of Women are used to guys being desperate to get sex, so I turn it around and play it as if I don’t care one way or another if it happens or not.

    Salaam
    Mu

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  32. Agnostic,
    Good point. It helps to get Catcalled by Women a good bit, for the reasons you noted, and also because a lot of Womens’ “Game” is horrid, LOL. And don’t shoot em down like they do to so many guys. Talk about Hell & Scorn and all that. I’ve seen lots of Women come completely unhinged when rebuffed by a guy. They don’t know how to act, *especially* the Dimes.

    Good “defence” btw; I just gotta change the wording a bit. We can put em on their heels while still being a Gentleman.;)

    Salaam
    Mu

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  33. word, the last two are the ones i run into the most. thanks for the tip…

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  34. on December 17, 2008 at 5:07 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Don’t leave us in suspense, man. Share your new Game-inspired responses to those classic married-couple shit tests.

    There are basically two ways to respond – ignore/sidestep, or agree and amplify to the point of absurdity.

    In either case, you want to subconsciously reinforce the notion that you are “dominant” i.e. you are a leader that she finds worthy of following, and that you are attractive to other women.

    “Do you think my sister/best friend is more attractive than me?”

    When she asks this one, it’s because SHE ALREADY KNOWS THE ANSWER, and 99% chance it’s because the sister/best friend IS DEFINITELY more attractive…if she’s not, she wouldn’t even bother asking.

    My answer to this was: “Duh. Look at her…she’s smoking! Only an idiot would deny how hot she is. It’s a good thing you’re such a great cook and so good in bed, cause if you weren’t, I’d be all over her! You know she couldn’t resist a pimp mac daddy like me!”

    “Do I look fat in these jeans?”

    Again, she knows the answer already. She wants to see if you have the balls to tell her the truth.

    Agree and amplify to the point of absolute absurdity works here…

    ” OH MY GOD, YOU LOOK SOOOOO HUGE, We’d better not go to the beach with you wearing that! You might accidentally get harpooned by a whaler if you’re seen in that thing!”

    The key is to say this sort of thing is to absolutely overreact and exaggerate your tone and expressions as you say this to impart over-the-top sarcasm. Than spank her fat ass and walk away when you’re done.

    “Where were you last night? Who were you out with? What was her name?”

    This one is all about how you respond. The tone of her question is an interrogation…how you respond is the total key. Are you responding like you’ve been caught with your hand in the cookie jar and deny any wrong doing (even if you didn’t do anything wrong, pleading denial makes her think you most certainly did.)

    Again, agree and amplify to the point of absurdity.

    “Don’t you know how hard it is satisfying Jessica Alba and Jennifer Lopez in the SAME NIGHT, and still come home and get it up for you too?!?!?!?” Those two just couldn’t get enough of me!”

    Now, instead of turning the conversation from her as an interrogator of a guilty party, you turned it into a joke while subconsciously reinforcing the notion that other women find you attractive.

    This response will make her roll her eyes and make a disparaging comment…along the lines of “Yeah right, you have no chance of scoring Jessica Alba.”

    Follow that up by flexing your muscles (ESPECIALLY if you really don’t have a physique”) and say “Oh please, you know they couldn’t resist THIS {flex & pose like Mr. Universe} any more than you could!”

    Roll your eyes at her and walk away, or change the subject to a completely different topic…or grab her and start kissing her.

    “We never do anything together anymore!”

    “Funny, that’s what Adriana Lima was telling me last time we were gettin’ busy…”

    “You don’t spend enough time with me!”

    “It’s hard when so many hot chicks all want time with me! You know what you were getting into when you married a mac daddy pimp!”

    The main point of all this (and what I really gleaned from PUA/Game) is to take every shit test, which is given to you in HER “frame” and to “re-frame” the conversation to where you lead the conversation. Turn it into a big ass joke.

    This is the basic mentality I adopted:

    HOW DARE YOU TEST ME AFTER ALL THIS TIME?!?!? YOU’RE A JOKE FOR EVEN TRYING! YOU WANNA BE SILLY? I’LL SHOW YOU SILLY!

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  35. “$10,000 custom suit”

    Must be Vicuña.

    – MPM

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  36. Not that anyone here would be interested in picking up someone like me, but I’m curious as to how some of you would handle “shit tests” that didn’t come in the form of direct behavior. Say you got lucky and met a girl with a father who was very active in her childhood development, knew men pretty well, and after reasonable boundary setting conversation, just well…went with the flow and decided whether she wanted to stick with you based on your behavior.

    If a woman is just waiting to see what you’re going to do, and how you’ll handle things with positive feedback and reciprocation but no nagging of aggressive prompting, how do you react to that? Do you tend to make more of an effort, or less?

    Is it considered unfeminine by men, for a woman *not* to nag or do the sillier form of shit testing?

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  37. Dave from Hawaii, your basic mindset is great and all, but that is some corny shit. Im assuming you are just concentrating/generalizing things to make a point, but otherwise your marriage and general communication with your wife sounds miserable. I think pretty much all women are going to talk some bullshit to some degree and your responses/attitude are key, but your relationship sounds forced and completely devoid of any happiness. Though I guess Roissy would argue that that is precisely the definition of marriage…

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  38. on December 17, 2008 at 5:50 pm ironrailsironweights

    Dunno about the rest of you, but I’m hankering for some delicious GNP.

    [note: you have to scroll all the way to the last picture, but it’s worth it. And Roissy, you sure can’t say that this chick is another one of my ugly skanks].

    Peter

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  39. on December 17, 2008 at 6:22 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Dave from Hawaii, your basic mindset is great and all, but that is some corny shit. Im assuming you are just concentrating/generalizing things to make a point, but otherwise your marriage and general communication with your wife sounds miserable. I think pretty much all women are going to talk some bullshit to some degree and your responses/attitude are key, but your relationship sounds forced and completely devoid of any happiness. Though I guess Roissy would argue that that is precisely the definition of marriage…

    This is not even close to the totality of our relationship or the quality of our conversations.

    All that stuff I wrote is simply based on a very small part of our relationship…namely recognizing and dealing with the shit tests that ALL women consciously or subconsciously administer.

    And one more thing…the more you “pass” the shit tests, the less she does it.

    Yes, it does certainly feel “forced” and “cheesy” when you first start doing it…but believe me, as a guy that failed shit tests from my wife for years – I didn’t even know what the hell was going on – once I learned what shit tests were and the primal motivations women have for using them, and how to pass them, I can’t tell you how powerful of a transformation to my relationship it has had.

    Now, these sort of things come as a reflexive response, without thought.

    We could go for days getting along just fine, living a normal life… than one day a typical “shit-test” question would pop up, I’d fail it, and we’d end up fighting…sometimes escalating to the point of discussing seperation, divorce, etc.

    I didn’t realize it, and she probably didn’t even consciously realize what the hell was going on…only that she was dissatisfied with me, and annoyed with all of my little petty habits and quirks we all have. In short, the beta response to her shit tests inspired revulsion and reduced my attraction to her…which snowballed into a relationship that “needed work.”

    My first foray into the “PUA” mindset was reading a blog called “The Reality Method.” When I read THIS article, What is a shit test? I started following it’s suggestions and at first I couldn’t believe it when it began working exactly as advertised.

    “The idea is, all of these questions TEMPT you to lie (in order to placate her). At the same time, if you resist the temptation and tell the truth, you’re not much better off – because you just responded in a logical, boring and descriptive way to a stupid rhetorical question, and now she sees you as just another boring, logical, descriptive guy who is trying to prove himself to her — instead of a guy who can lead her in conversation and in life.

    Do you see how brilliantly this structure screens guys? It truly separates the boring, normal guys who won’t be able to excite her (in conversation and certainly not in bed) from the oily line-spitting guys who are just trying to talk their way into her pants.”

    Does my hypothetical responses to shit tests in my previous posts sound over-the-top, cheesy and forced? They did to me to when I first started using them.

    What I found out quickly though was that however ridiculous they sounded, or how over-the-top I acted, one thing I can say is that I was not being BORING. It always resulted in my wife and I trading sarcastic but playful barbs and insults…i.e. Neg’s.

    Here’s the RM’s advice on passing shit tests and the underlying logic as to why the “agree and amplify” approach I referred to works:

    “Passing Shit Tests – the Formulas that works 100% of the time:

    As it turns out, there are a couple of ways you can pass a shit test, strike through the Gordian knot / slip between the horns of the dilemma.

    1. Ignore it
    Pretend you didn’t hear. Laugh it off or just pay attention to something else for a second. Let it roll off your back like water on a duck. This sounds easy, but to do it fully 100%, you have to really be totally nonreactive – I’m talking about down to the level of unconscious pupil dilation here. Otherwise she thinks you’re just avoiding answering – which is better than answering, but is still not going to make her very attracted to you.By ignoring it totally, though, you are saying in effect, “I won’t be tested. I totally refuse.” Which is dominant, but still a very blatant cop-out. Which is why I’ll only use this method as an absolute last resort, if I really am caught off-guard and blindsided by some test.

    2. Agree and Amplify
    If a girl says “I’m fat,” then “Yes, you’re HYOOOOOGE.” Or “It’s just more cushin’ for the pushin’.” Agree and Amplify; show her you’re not afraid to piss her off, but do it in a playful way. Don’t INSULT her; poke fun at her (gently). The worst you’ll get is a swat on the arm and that is proof that she is more attracted, not less.

    Some people might also call this a “reframe”; a term which I believe is probably borrowed from political discourse terminology. You’ve taken her frame (the shit test) and turned it into something entirely different and non-threatening.

    For instance, if she says, “You’re a tough guy, aren’t you?” You might say, “Yeah, so what is it you like about tough guys anyway?” Deliberately mis-interpreting her question as adoration, not a shit-test.

    Reframing / Agreeing and Amplifying is powerful. It’s my preferred method of answering shit tests. It demonstrates that not only are you not needy / logical, but neither are you willing to fall into her trap and try to lie to her face.

    Being able to sidestep the shit test is one of the most important aspects of interacting with women. Without this knowledge, you will get shot down / disqualified 95% of the time by truly “hot” women automatically, without them even thinking about it. I’ve written a lot lately about more “advanced” topics like bisexual girlfriends and threesomes, but I really think this post, and getting this one area handled, is responsible for guys getting into better interactions, more quickly, than all the advanced sex-theory I will *ever* write.

    Ultimately, we should be glad for shit tests. They help ensure that every woman we met hasn’t already been plowed up one side and down the other by 15,000 other random guys.”

    Like


  40. Dave, I didnt mean to say I wasnt sold on the idea. I definitely agree with the whole subject of the original post and your subsequent ones. I was just responding to your particular flavor, which I found kind of corny. And you just framed it in a way that sounded like your relationship was miserable. But no doubt laughing off shit tests is key, and reframing is even better — most of my game coming up was natural, and this is the kind of flirty/playful stuff that I felt most comfortable with. To anyone who feels uncomfortable with it, force yourself into this mindset — its the only way to survive and thrive in the long haul.

    Like


  41. A tell-tale sign that you’ve said or done something fatally beta to a chick: she responds with “that’s so sweet!”

    Like


  42. on December 17, 2008 at 7:01 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Oh, and one more thing…

    “What I found out quickly though was that however ridiculous they sounded, or how over-the-top I acted, one thing I can say is that I was not being BORING. It always resulted in my wife and I trading sarcastic but playful barbs and insults…i.e. Neg’s.”

    After recognizing and passing her shit tests became second nature, I also realized that our conversational relationship of playful teasing and “negging” between us was the EXACT sort of relationship she has with her Father.

    Looking at her relationship with him, as well as how he acts with her, his wife and my wife’s sisters, I’ve come to realize that my Father-In-Law is a natural “gamer” and does many of the PUA techniques in relation to all the females in his family…and I doubt he ever consciously thought about these things.

    Which brings me to Nicole’s question…

    Not that anyone here would be interested in picking up someone like me, but I’m curious as to how some of you would handle “shit tests” that didn’t come in the form of direct behavior. Say you got lucky and met a girl with a father who was very active in her childhood development, knew men pretty well, and after reasonable boundary setting conversation, just well…went with the flow and decided whether she wanted to stick with you based on your behavior.

    Going with the flow is not “shit testing.”

    But if you find a “keeper” and want to turn it into a monogamous relationship, I would say that a man really only has a better than average chance of making it work with a Western woman if she in fact is a girl raised by a happily married parents and a positive relationship with her father.

    And to make it work with her? Just observe how she interacts with her father, and mimic it.

    There are exceptions to every rule, of course, but in general, women raised in homes with happy marriages have the template ingrained in them on how to be happy in a marriage. Women raised in homes broken by divorce and a single mother indoctrinating them with years of bitterness towards her father has THAT template ingrained into them, and she is FAR more likely to break the home you make with her…after all, before marrying you, that’s all she’s known.

    Like


  43. Q: “Where were you last night? Who were you out with? What was her name?”
    A: I was with Pat and Kelly. …Said with a smirk to let the gender ambiguity kick in.

    Q: “Do you think my sister/best friend is more attractive than me?”
    A: A good tactic here is acknowledge the beauty of the sister/best friend. Don’t hold back. Really amp it up and compliment the sister/best friend on her looks. And then, just before your s.o. is about to drop open her jaw at your audacity, you reject or disqualify the sister/best friend in the next thought.

    By doing this, you first generate a strong emotional spike in your s.o.–usually a good thing. And second, you send a subtle (nor not-so-subtle) DHV. Your pseudo-rejection of the attractive sister/best friend communications your own high sexual standards.

    For example, you might say… “More attractive that you? Well she’s definitely got a great figure. I mean…. anyone with a penis would notice how awesome her ass looked in those jeans she was wearing last night. I think she’s killer! But… at the same time… I”m not so sure about her after all. I was talking with her husband and I get the sense that he’s frustrated. She probably can’t cook worth a squat and I don’t think she does oral. Meh… she wouldn’t do it for me.” …and change to the next subject.

    Like


  44. DFH,
    Thanks for the excellent explanation of how to Disarm a Battery of Shit Tests. What it comes down to me is the use of some seriously Cocky Funny humor (smile when you do it).

    The whole thing I get out of all this is that we guys take ourselves waaaaaay too seriously! Go and have fun with it, that alone brings a lot of levity to things. Don’t tense up, stay loost and in the moment.

    Can’t wait to try out DFH’s method…

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  45. I agree with G Manifesto that the “will you buy me a drink” test is not in the same category as some of the others. If it’s going to create social awkwardness to refuse then it’s probably not worth it.

    The favorite answer I’ve ever used roughly follows Richard Feynman’s experience, which paraphrased would be “Never pay for anything for a woman until you know if you’re going home with her.”

    Her: “So, you going to buy me a drink?”
    N : “So, you going to put out?”

    Like


  46. PA
    A tell-tale sign that you’ve said or done something fatally beta to a chick: she responds with “that’s so sweet!”

    I say that alot and I mean it. I’m not into being abused by men.

    Like


  47. Totally unrelated: I’m really starting to hate NY and the hipster-beta glorification epidemic going on here:

    http://www.observer.com/2008/o2/beware-l-homme-fatale#comments

    I can see more and more guys adopting dirtbag hipster douchiness in order to get chicks.

    Like


  48. Never buy a girl a drink?

    Fuck that shit. It’s a fucking crime for a roast of venison to be eaten while quaffing some fruity-ass cocktail, or worse, some California Chardonnay butterball. Give me the wine list and let me make the order. I don’t care if it costs me lays. There are things that. just. shouldn’t. be. done. Wrong drinks with wrong food is one of them.

    Hey Aggie, bang any of those barely legal honeys yet, or are you content with being a dance partner to make their boyfriend jealous or played to get free taxi rides home?

    You talk the shit, but your blog sure don’t make it seem like you’re getting much more than played hardcore by the chicks. Even this beta can smell it.

    “He acts all tough, but in the end he’ll give you a free ride home if you pout, rub up to him and look sleepy. He even uses an older picture of himself on facebook. What a Seymour!”

    My prediction as to his reply: “A man never tells! That would be crass. Also you’re stupid, can’t hack grad school and a complete math ‘tard.”

    Color me amused.

    Like


  49. “A tell-tale sign that you’ve said or done something fatally beta to a chick: she responds with “that’s so sweet!””

    Not necesarily; doing stuff like that in hopes of being wanted or placating a woman is indeed beta, but if you’re genuinely thoughtful a woman will see the difference. And I love when guys do the aforementioned sweet things for me .

    Like


  50. A hesitant “that’s so sweet” means she’s taken aback by your betatude but isn’t quite sure how she’s supposed to react or is trying to spare your feelings.

    An eyes-lit-up, voice gasping “that’s so sweet” would a whole different thing entirely — but honestly that doesn’t sound like the first phrase that would come through a girl’s mouth when she’s genuinely pleased.

    Like


  51. “An eyes-lit-up, voice gasping “that’s so sweet” would a whole different thing entirely — but honestly that doesn’t sound like the first phrase that would come through a girl’s mouth when she’s genuinely pleased.”

    I actually talk like that all the time. But if you know the woman trust your judgement.

    Like


  52. Any advice on ways to break the ice out at a bar? I can hold a conversation fine once contact is made but I am definitely lacking in the initial approach. Saying “hi” seems kinda like a pussy way to start off but I think I’d feel cheesy w/ a lot of the one liners out there. Thoughts guys?

    Like


  53. the drink scenario still baffles me. last weekend this guy approached me (i had a drink already), flirts with me for about 10 minutes, then offers to hold my drink while i put his number in my phone. then he drinks my vodka cranberry! what kind of shit test was that??

    Like


  54. T said:

    I can see more and more guys adopting dirtbag hipster douchiness in order to get chicks.

    Oh yes. LA is that way all over. It’s terrible.

    Hello: “sweet” = “you are so beta you might as well be gay.” Anytime a guy hears that he ought to be highly insulted AND call the woman on it for what it is (a back-door insult).

    Like


  55. she responds with “that’s so sweet!

    Unlike you, PA, I like when girls tell me that. It may not get me laid, but as always, it’s great for hugs. 🙂

    BTW, non-date g/f uses the term in reference to me at least twice per day, and if feel better after she says it…

    Like


  56. “Hello: ‘sweet’ = ‘you are so beta you might as well be gay.’ Anytime a guy hears that he ought to be highly insulted AND call the woman on it for what it is (a back-door insult).”

    I have two responses:

    1. Oh, come on whiskey! These sort of absolutes make Game sound ridiculous. I add my experiences and observations to the discussion and you add yours. I do not use the word “sweet” as a veiled insult even if some women do.

    2. What alternative adjective should a woman use when a man does perform an action that could plausibly be described with the beta-izing “s” word? “Kind”? “Thoughtful”? “Loving”?

    Like


  57. Unlike you, PA, I like when girls tell me that. It may not get me laid, but as always, it’s great for hugs.

    why are you still alive?

    fuck i’m nauseated after reading that.

    Like


  58. What alternative adjective should a woman use when a man does perform an action that could plausibly be described with the beta-izing “s” word? “Kind”? “Thoughtful”? “Loving”?

    arousing.

    Like


  59. “non-date g/f”

    Does anyone else find this term as ridiculous as I do?

    Some chick that you’re not fucking but do go out with is your “non-date g/f”? It’s more like she’s your date non-girlfriend.

    A girlfriend is a girl who will, if you’re at some bar and just got crushed in a pickup attempt, go there if you call her and go home with you. Next day, she’ll cook breakfast.

    If she won’t do that you’ve got one more out in referring to a woman as a girlfriend: HAVE YOU SEEN HER NAKED? If the answer is “no” she’s not your damned girlfriend.

    Peter,

    Congrats on finding pics of a hot woman with pubic hair but she’s more landing strip and carefully trimmed than natural. Carefully trimmed is good.

    Like


  60. And Roissy, you sure can’t say that this chick is another one of my ugly skanks

    a big improvement peter. let’s see if you can keep it at that level of excellence.

    ps her twat is trimmed.

    Like


  61. @Anon

    On “Hi” as an ice-breaker: You can’t lead with it. You need build-up. You — standing somewhere, a little apart from the crowd, giving your target the “I want YOU” look. Not a stalker’s stare mind you, but that playful, make eye contact and attention-at-a-distance that every woman recognizes. Once you know she knows you exist, it’s time to approach. And it’s not the word “Hi” but how you say it, in a slightly silky base voice with lots of playfulness as if you are really saying “I’m here to play, and so are you”. Get in the mindset. If it works right she’ll “Hi” you right back with all the undertones of “Yeah, I’m here to play too”. If you get smile and a blush — geez — don’t fuck it up. This one is hot and you need to play from there…

    The other thing, is you can plant yourself at the bar next to a target and do nothing. Ignoring a woman, will 50% of the time, result in her talking to you. This works great with hot women, assuming some eye contact etc. They will walk or talk. The more people in the bar the more they will talk. (It’s a territory thing — they don’t want to give up their spot.) Which opens the door to an infinitude of fun shit you can pour her way. Especially when she starts testing you — after a couple test you can hit her with “… woman… enough with shit tests… you spoke to me first… I was minding my own business.” Say it jovially, smiling the whole way, that you know what she’s upto and segway into something more interesting.

    Like


  62. T. AKA Ricky Raw,

    “http://www.observer.com/2008/o2/beware-l-homme-fatale#comments

    I can see more and more guys adopting dirtbag hipster douchiness in order to get chicks.”

    Horrific article.

    I can’t believe what this world is coming to.

    The upside:

    These guys are zero competition.

    – MPM

    Like


  63. El Guapo,

    “The other thing, is you can plant yourself at the bar next to a target and do nothing. Ignoring a woman, will 50% of the time, result in her talking to you.”

    Thank you. Finally someone saying something that makes sense.

    I call this “Telekinesis Game”.

    It also can help if you are feeling great, wearing a custom flash suit, and flashing a thick Bankroll. Cigarettes help to.

    The frame completely changes when a girl first starts talking to you.

    The art of picking up girls is to have girls pick up on you.

    The sooner you understand that, the better off you are.

    – MPM

    Like


  64. Hello —

    It’s the same thing as calling a woman in the workplace “fat” — it’s rude and insulting.

    Instead of “sweet” which is an insult as every guy knows (just as women know “great personality” is an insult), proper words would be: “cool,” “awesome,” “great,” “fantastic,” “super” and “fine.”

    These all express appreciation for the act without calling the guy a either emasculated or gay. Yeah, we know what “sweet” is and it’s as insulting as openly ogling a co-worker, or other stuff women complain about.

    Like


  65. on December 18, 2008 at 2:25 am Milton Freedman

    Mu how old are you? Why aren’t you married if you believe in the paleoconservative view of things? Where can I download that e-book you’ve been talking about? What kind of expensive shoes are right?

    Do you think those white sneakers with the light green purpleish colors like this

    http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://hypebeast.com/image/2007/05/reebok-2nd-kolors-1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://hypebeast.com/2007/05/reebok-2nd-series-kolors-collection/&usg=__YyKfXMFtyQf27OxpxVHlfDb0nwQ=&h=300&w=598&sz=63&hl=en&start=6&um=1&tbnid=EyKAJfAPUz4xNM:&tbnh=68&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsneakers%2Bwith%2Bcolors%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN

    are cool with some decent genes a nice shirt and some necklace trinket or whatever.

    Also I recommend everyone watch this video. It is very inspirational in its understanding of game.

    Also Roissy the new site design is wack, you were better off just having home and about as the top tabs, now it just looks overstuffed.

    Like


  66. on December 18, 2008 at 2:26 am Milton Freedman

    Woops that should say jeans not genes.

    Like


  67. Amanda–
    “the drink scenario still baffles me. last weekend this guy approached me (i had a drink already), flirts with me for about 10 minutes, then offers to hold my drink while i put his number in my phone. then he drinks my vodka cranberry! what kind of shit test was that??”

    The kind played by a guy whose idea of class is no doubt as high as his IQ. That’s the problem with “game”…too many guys who internalize “rules” without any intuition and understanding of human nature to back it up.

    Like


  68. whiskey, now you’re being ridiculous again. “Sweet” is not insulting and you’re surely too old to worry about what it does to your bad boy image.

    Like


  69. Amanda, maybe he just wanted some free vodka. I know I do.

    Like


  70. [i]”Hey, can we move the date/change the time? My cat yoga class is that night.
    Sometimes this is a legitimate excuse. Most of the time, it’s not. If she agreed on a meeting time with you, she was aware of her schedule. Therefore, any last second changes by her should trigger your BS alarm. You’d be surprised how many girls instinctually default to this blatant shit test as the date approaches. They can’t help themselves. They’re programmed to behave like a flake to ensure your seed can jump their hurdles and land with a satisfying thud in their eggs.”[/i]

    the only time this really bothers me is if they dont leave a specific time. if they say something vague like “maybe some other time” rather than an actual date, i tell them flat out that this will never do.

    of course the women dont like it when i lay down the law like that, but hey, IVE GOTTEN BURNED. even if i dont get the pussy, it feels good to just say what youre thinking.

    roissy should do a piece on women who cancel at the last minute without scheduling another date

    Like


  71. This clip reminds me of David Alexander. I’m sure many of you have watched it:

    Fucking brutal and hilarious, if a bit tragic, since no comedy club interested in profit will hire that loser. I’m sure Jamie Foxx gets tons of play; also, why is it that white comedians are such maladjusted nerds, and so many black comedians are conventionally masculine and attractive?

    Like


  72. Dave, thank you for the input. Now I understand a bit more how I got classed as the girl version of Whiskey’s “sweet”. I suppose that a non or very low level shit testing woman whose parents were from a lasting and loving monogamous relationship is kryptonite for a guy looking for a simple sperm receptacle. This is a good thing, in my opinion.

    My worry was that I was perhaps chasing guys away in a bad way, by being overly masculine in my strategy. Patrick’s reaction to a girl he felt was manipulating him, and a recent conversation with a friend, got me thinking about all the times I didn’t call guys because it’s not something I feel comfortable doing until we’ve reached a level where I’m certain this wouldn’t be considered an intrusion or evidence that I’m more invested in him than I actually am.

    It’s a problem for us media -5’s that guys tend to assume (wishful thinking) that just because we’re showing interest, we’re in love. The reaction to finding out otherwise ranges from shock to anger (as in how *dare* you pathetic ugly bitch not be totally hooked on me from hello, you should be glad I even looked at you). Once or twice of experiencing that sort of reaction, and you just understand that in the spirit of not misleading anyone, an “ugly” girl has to mind her game as well…or just not play. You learn to let the guy do the guy thing. It’s not about “rules”, but about making sure the guys interested in taking things further before believing that is even possible.

    So I just let things take their natural course, and don’t call a guy until he gives me a kind of schedule…like if I don’t hear from him in a couple of days, to call him. My question is whether or not men with good intentions, interpret a woman being easygoing or having self control as masculine in a repellant way.

    Like


  73. For Anon:
    When you step into frame, do so w/a Bruce Wayne attitude: you own the place. Go around the room, ask everyone how they’re doing and if they’re having a good time; be assertive but not aggressive; put your hand out to shake the hands of the other guys in-set (win the Men, you win the Women, always in that order), always subtlely ignore the HBs, keep it light, w/body language that is always in “shark mode”-in other words, don’t linger. Keep it moving. A busy man is an important man, even while partying.

    Best place to practice is BIG parties. That’s because there’s lots of people there to have a good time, and you won’t feel so self-conscious. If you want the HBs, you gotta be bigger than life.

    In fact, this is a good time to post yet another UPDATE:

    The Obsidian Project
    OK, I’ve been doing a bit of research into some things. Eversince the “Cafe Test” Roissy gave some months back I’ve been thinking about how to take the “C” grade he gave me and turn it into an “A+”.

    He gave me what he called a “Gentleman’s C”. “C” ain’t a failing grade-its passable. Only some tweaks need to be made to turn it into an A.

    I’ve always been a firm believer in the idea that the answers we seek to problems in life often lie right under our noses. How to turn the C into an A?

    Become a Gentleman. One with solid, ultra tight Game.

    So, I’ve been studying Dandyism, a movement that emerged in 18th and 19th century England and France. As it turns out there’s an underlying political philosophy that fits Mu to a tee.

    Dandies are self-made men, who aren’t noble-borns, and strive to project refinement in all they do, especially in how they dress, which includes a dash of an over the top flair. Right up my alley.

    I’m still reading up on it but from what I’m getting so far, and putting it together with Mystery Method and The Game and of course, this excellent resource in Roissy’s place, it all promises to be one heck of a combination.

    One thing I’m learning all this: in order to get the things you want in this Life, you have to be willing to put yourself out there and make some changes about yourself.

    Always put your best forward, Gentlemen.

    Salaam
    Mu/Obsidian

    Like


  74. Nicole,
    A few observations in relation to your comments to Dave Alex if I may.

    It is an unfortunate but true fact of Life that all of us won’t be part of “The Beautiful People”. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that one cannot be attractive in other ways.

    Of course, for a Woman, *not* being deemed “beautiful” can really hurt. But again, this need not be the end of the road.

    I would kindly suggest that such a Woman do what a Man would insofar as striving to improve themselves as much as possible on the physical front, and much further ahead on the non-physical one. Afterall, its been said that “ugly” and “fat” chicks “try harder”. It would certainly make sense.

    In this day and age, I simply reject the idea that *nothing* can be done to change one’s situation. True, a gal may not look like Melissa Ford, but she can improve at least one point up on the attraction scale.

    So, I think such a Woman might consider being or coming off as more “feminine” than her peers, to compensate for the lack of physical beauty; really work hard at looking nice, ie, in terms of wardrobe selection, etc. Personally, I’ve always found a Lady of Deportment to be hugely attractive, even if she wasn’t the Cat’s Meow in terms of outright physical beauty.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  75. “(as in how *dare* you pathetic ugly bitch not be totally hooked on me from hello, you should be glad I even looked at you). ”

    Nic, I didn’t introduce you to these assholes so don’t blame me 😉

    Like


  76. “What alternative adjective should a woman use when a man does perform an action that could plausibly be described with the beta-izing “s” word? “Kind”? “Thoughtful”? “Loving”?

    arousing.”

    “Instead of ‘sweet’ which is an insult as every guy knows (just as women know ‘great personality’ is an insult), proper words would be: ‘cool,’ ‘awesome,’ ‘great,’ ‘fantastic,’ ‘super’ and ‘fine.’

    These all express appreciation for the act without calling the guy a either emasculated or gay. Yeah, we know what ‘sweet’ is and it’s as insulting as openly ogling a co-worker, or other stuff women complain about.”

    Okay, when my Grandpa makes his annual Christmas day pancakes I will refrain from calling his culinary efforts “sweet” since I don’t want to impugn his manhood.

    Like


  77. Kitty,
    Peshaw, I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with any Woman calling me “sweet”. In fact, I take that as a High Compliment indeed.;)

    Being a “sweet guy” shouldn’t and really doesn’t have anything to do w/whether you get the Panties or not, Gentlemen; recall what the Old Wise Man told Mu many Moons ago: a Woman has already decided if she wants you inside here within 2 minutes of first meeting. Just don’t undersell/oversell yourself, and all will be just fine.

    😉

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  78. on December 18, 2008 at 8:30 am Patrick Bateman

    I bet you have a girl for every night of the week.

    I either go with pseudo-redemption or something like
    “No not really, I have no friends, if I wasn’t here with you I’d be home watching lifetime and eating ice cream”

    About buying girls drinks.

    NEVER go up and just offer a girl a drink. Make her work for it. If I’ve been talking to a chick for 20-30 minutes and she seems cool, I might buy her a drink. Girls don’t appreciate guys who just offer them drinks out of nowhere.
    I was in a bar with my wing a couple of weeks ago and we picked up 2 chicks. Two guys had gone to the bar to get them drinks and by the time they got back, these girls were all over us. The two chumps hand the girls the drinks, the girls hug them and say thanks and then continue giving all their attention to us.

    Are you always this big an asshole?

    Yes

    I’m not that kind of girl.

    Well we’re going to have problems then, because I’m that type of guy.

    What do you do?

    I’m working on finishing up my GED.

    Like


  79. as always, it’s great for hugs

    When a girl who isn’t related to you hugs you, is it a full-body hug with her hips comfortably against yours, or is it an asses-out Donald Duck hug?

    Like


  80. I love public sex/doing it upside down/kinky sex with ice cubes and strawberries.
    It’s a trap!

    Not necessarily. With some girls, the *correctly delivered* (can’t stress that enough) “Prove it.” does work. She’ll reply “what?” and you say “Go to the bathroom/out back/whatever, I’ll be there in two minutes.”. She goes there and plays along and in those two minutes realizes this is making her wet as November.

    Like


  81. Pat B, Respect. Great info. Much appreciated.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  82. Mu, I already know being ugly isn’t the end of the world, whether that’s actual defects or just popularly perceived defects. My problem is figuring out how to sort between the ones who are around because they think we’re ugly, and the ones who are around because they don’t think we’re ugly…and by “we” I mean myself and some female friends who are beautiful in the nature way, but far from the mainstream template.

    The cute Moroccan/Greek girl I posted about not too long ago had run afoul of more than one guy who freaks out at some point and begins berating her for not being blonde, light-skinned, or skinny enough to be so “arrogant” as to say no to them. She’s been pushed aside for blondes who had not a fraction of her beauty, talent, brains, or kindness, by guys who seemed initially interested, or who went as far as to get close to her but flake out when they got a “better” offer.

    So she, like me, has learned to play her cards close to her chest. Granted, she has many more possibilities than I do, and the sheer numbers definitely take the edge off, but there’s still the same issue coming up repeatedly, and with little or no warning beforehand.

    At some point, when the same thing keeps happening, one has to ask one’s self if it’s other people who are wrong, or one’s self who is doing something to attract these kinds of guys…or not doing something they should do to repel them.

    So I’m asking you and other guys out there if perhaps even if a woman isn’t into shit testing, she should do it anyway, for the sake of perhaps finding out sooner whether a guy will interpret her desire for minimal consideration as having an overblown sense of entitlement. Maybe I’ve had it all wrong all these years, and “ugly” women should be more pushy, not less.

    Like


  83. The V Manifesto is hilarious. kudos.

    Like


  84. Thanks for the bar pickup advice guys. I’ve actually had the ignore a girl thing work out a few times. Not that I had planned on it, I was just so stone drunk that I sat at the bar watching a baseball game and was only hazily aware of everything around me.
    Here’s my question about that though. Why would a hot girl initiate talking to a guy? I mean, there’s tons of guys that are going to be hitting on her. Unless for some reason she thinks that they guy ignoring her is way more alpha than the guys hitting on her. Usually the girls that end up talking to me at a bar are like average looking although I guess I haven’t tried planting myself next to a hot girl.
    The other part of the approach that I’m not sure about is how to approach girls in a group. Let’s say there’s two or three of them. Do I just go up and entertain all of them or focus on the one I’m interested in?

    Like


  85. problem with the ignore a chick advice is that most guys can’t pull it off correctly. it doesn’t work if you look like you are aware of the girl and deliberately ignoring her and pretending not to notice. then it gets interpreted as weak game or approach anxiety. too many guys have “tells” in their body language when trying to pull off the “ignore” advice.

    Like


  86. Bateman,

    So glad to see you’ve successfully gotten over the woman you had us so convince that you were going to marry. LOL And your pick up lines? They would never have worked on me, even in my prime, but that’s just me. I’m allergic to bullshit; except my own of course.

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  87. on December 18, 2008 at 12:13 pm sara I spam alert

    Roissy, you’re constantly LOOKING for shit and then wondering why you find it. It’s the shit in your brains that keep attracting it. Yes, I know you think the shit comes first and you’re just reacting to it. LOL You’ll never get it.

    Like


  88. every girl that ever talked up a good game about sex was completely mediocre/lackluster….minus the brazilian girl. she was just so overtly sexual, it wasn’t an act.

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  89. “Slicha, eich at yecholah?”

    Israeli women are not KIND at all about rejection, ever, ranging from “Get the F*CK AWAY” to a blank stare, and I suspect your Marokait/Yevanit may actually be one of the nicer ones. The thing is that the secular culture is so deranged (multiple-partners, sometimes simultaneously, starting from high school) that sleeping over is commitment (at least in college) and those who can play the field like rabbits. Coming from German-Jewish culture, which was pure Portnoy “someday I might get laid by one of the chicks in my social circle”, it blew my fuses. These men experience themselves as powerless (because they “never” get what they want/don’t get what they want often enough, or from the “right” woman, i.e. Bar Rafaeli) and they grasp, cruelly enough–for Israel is a cruel country, feast or famine, with not enough of everything or anything even to sustain everyone–for leverage.

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  90. Incidentally, Roissy, these are exactly the words that prevented me from having a sex life for many, many years. I was one of the guys who kept approaching, approaching, approaching, never making it to “hook point.” So simple, and yet so clear–thank you for the tutorial.

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  91. on December 18, 2008 at 3:14 pm Milton Freedman

    So what say you to my above questions Mu’Min?

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  92. Eurosabra, the cruelty is one reason I often JMT (Jedi mind trick) rejection. If I’m not interested at all initially, I politely but firmly decline. If I’m not sure what might be wrong with a guy I’ll talk to him awhile to see where his head is at, and I show him where mine is at, and if we’re not going the same direction, we’ll naturally separate.

    I’ve seen how awful people often are to each other here, and want no part of it. I don’t get nasty with someone unless they’re getting nasty with me. I don’t coddle people or lead anyone on. I just handle things as rationally as possible. A guy doesn’t deserve his head bitten off for saying hi.

    Heheheh…In fact, recently at the shouk, I complimented a guy on his game. He blushed a little at that, and we had a nice, encouraging conversation about my life being too complicated at the moment, and his being too much fun at the moment to consider settling down. We parted ways smiling, neither feeling insulted by not being what the other was looking for.

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  93. Ignoring a particular girl can work if you build up enough social proof in a bar or whereever. I have seen guys literally take over a bar and all the girls, even those who hadn’t exchanged a word with him, started asking, “Who is that guy?” But you’ve got to put yourself out there as a fun, social guy. Standing by the bar looking cool isn’t going to cut it.

    This tactic is particularly effective in social circle game, where you can build up a lot of status at, say, a smaller party by talking and having fun with all the guys and the less attractive girls, while mostly ignoring the more attractive girls.

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  94. Thursday, I’d like to meet the heterosexual guy with that much self control.

    Small parties = all the guys orbiting the most “attractive” girls, and the rest standing around wondering why they even showed up.

    Being the social engineering villain that I am, once I convinced the strays to all join me in going to a club, basically leaving the “alpha” females to fend for themselves at a hard leg party. 20+ guys and 3 “hot” girls…

    The next day, I was told that for about an hour, nobody noticed we were gone, but then things started to get weird. At the time guys might have started looking around for who else’s pants to try to get into, there was nobody there to settle for. We were partying somewhere the odds of at least having who to dance with were better.

    The reason I made the move I did was because I heard a few of the guys laughing about an older woman who was there, and a friend of the birthday girl. She’s a belly dancer who I wish I looked as good or moved as well at half her age. They were calling her the old chihuahua…so I decided to let the dogs out. 😉

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  95. Thursday is right: “I have seen guys literally take over a bar and all the girls, even those who hadn’t exchanged a word with him, started asking, “Who is that guy?” But you’ve got to put yourself out there as a fun, social guy.”

    Nicole: “Thursday, I’d like to meet the heterosexual guy with that much self control.”

    You just need to meet some guy with basic Game.

    – MPM

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  96. on December 18, 2008 at 5:56 pm Dave from Hawaii

    So glad to see you’ve successfully gotten over the woman you had us so convince that you were going to marry. LOL And your pick up lines? They would never have worked on me, even in my prime, but that’s just me. I’m allergic to bullshit; except my own of course.

    This is nothing more than feminine conceit – or a declaration of your lesbian orientation…

    …and it serves as the perfect example of why men should never listen to what women say but watch what they do.

    Women know exactly what a man is doing when he approaches her with a pickup line.

    The real determinant of whether or not it works is if you look at the guy trying it on you and whether or not you find him attractive.

    A guy you find hot delivering a cheesy pickup line? No problem, he’s hot, you’re glad he said ANYTHING to you giving you the chance to interact with a potential suitor you find attractive.

    An ugly, unattractive guy using a sophisticated, well delivered pickup line with perfect eloquence, excellent wit and confidence?

    “That’s the kind of line that would never work on me!”

    Like


  97. on December 18, 2008 at 6:39 pm sara I spam alert

    Dave

    The real determinant of whether or not it works is if you look at the guy trying it on you and whether or not you find him attractive.

    As much as I dread being a dissenting voice here, but NO, it does not matter if the guy is attractive physically or not. It does NOT matter if my pussy is on fire for Mr. coy, seductive, clever man. I have the experience to prove it. Getting turned on is one thing and giving it up is quite another to a woman with class, standards, and choices in life. Underneath most exceedingly handsome men is an asshole who just needs time to show himself…..usually, but I love exceptions.

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  98. […] to quench female desire. HBM- PERFECT that’s just how I like my men Rule #2: Do not fall for her shit tests. Anything from her side that would trigger a self-defensive reaction from a guy is a shit test. […]

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  99. G, this is just one of those few things that in 38 years, I have never seen.

    Well, not without some drugs involved anyway. If we’re being honest here, the only time I’ve seen a small party with any hot girls become more democratic is with the assistance of good cannabis.

    Like


  100. If something wouldn’t work on sara, that’s the best endorsement to do it in my opinion. That means its guaranteed to screen against wackjobs.

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  101. on December 18, 2008 at 8:49 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Unless she’s a militant bull-dyke virgin that has never had a penis in her vagina, some guy, somewhere has used a pick up line on her to start a realtionship with her that eventually lead to sexual intercourse.

    She’s just trying to convince herself that she’s smarter than all the “stupid” girls that “fall” for the “manipulation” of “Game.”

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  102. Nicole,

    I’ve been the “old chihuahua” as a guy, it’s even worse when you’re a guy because you HAVE TO initiate and as a result you have to be much cooler than the chick(s), otherwise you’ll be seen as “puppy dogging” after the young ‘uns. Israel never gets democratic, but there’s always a zaftig American undergrad on her year abroad. I would suggest Kate Harding’s essay “How to Fuck a Fat Woman” in the anthology (by Valenti & Friedman) _Yes Means Yes_. I’ve done the conquest bit, and the hostility bit, and I’m a bit burned out–in general, Jewish women choose, and tight “game” is something I’ve yet to see work by itself, in the absence of male social-status and economic superiority. Which is why you get outright monetary offers, it’s a grasping for status to render someone else’s sexuality negotiable for coin.

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  103. Oh, and in general, Americans in Israel follow American social dynamics, so guys go across the spectrum to find a match at their level, who disrespects them because American Jewish women always want to “work up”, while Israeli guys do the “20 on 3” you’ve described and then work their way down. It’s tough out there for everyone.

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  104. T and Dave, some women were well trained by our dads to resist pickup lines. Or maybe she doesn’t understand what you mean by a pickup line. It seems what you guys are talking about is more witty initial conversation than a one-line-and-into-bed thing.

    It could also be a matter of experience. Some women just haven’t encountered a guy yet who could have them at hello. Maybe if they did, they’d panic.

    One reason I’m a big proponent of following your gutt and going with the flow is because my most loving relationships have been with guys I didn’t have to hold back with. Both of my husbands, my protoge, and a couple of amicable partings, I never had to wonder if they cared.

    …but guys, I think one reason they very easily got through my resistance was because we have similar values already. When someone’s speaking your emotional language, it’s not so hard to relate to them.

    So…if a woman is playing herself, then playing better than her is probably going to work. If a woman isn’t impressed by the verbal though, nonverbal pickup tactics may come in handy.

    A guy can say whatever he wants, but those of us with dads and protective males in our families’ best pickup lines are pickup touches…but I’m a female, so maybe I don’t know what exactly happened. A guy should probably explain how that works.

    As a martial artist though, it’s simple: close the distance between you and your “opponent” as quickly as possible.

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  105. DFH,
    I agree to an extent with what you said in reply to Sara. However, it must also be said that there is a saying in the PUA community, at least a considerable portion of it: Attraction is NOT a Choice. If one applies Game correctly, including proper timing and body language, the Target WILL be attracted to him sexually whether she consciously wills it to be or not.

    The key, as far as I’m understanding the extant literature etc., is that the Player do EVERYTHING correctly, in proper sequence. Please revisit QT’s recent remarks in this regard.

    Salaam
    Mu/Obsidian

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  106. Eurosabra, so it seems I did well to operate on the fringes. There are so many issues here that I am not prepared to deal with, and I’m not sure the changes necessary to do so would be beneficial for me. I don’t want to have to become a mini monster to be loved. Better to be an enigma and respected/feared, and restrict one’s self to dating others who have made that choice consciously.

    Strangely, it seems to get you loved anyway, but the rub is that in order to maintain that, you have to keep yourself out of reach for the most part. Charm and withdraw.

    Crap.

    Well, like I said, some things take the edge off, but it’s still a screwed up way to have to live in order to not get emotionally ripped to pieces.

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  107. ” * I bet you have a girl for every night of the week.”

    So what’s wrong with something completely flippant like

    “not quite, my [this day of the week] slot just opened up.”

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  108. Nicole — You’re in Israel, right? How’d you wind up there?

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  109. on December 20, 2008 at 1:42 pm Usually Lurking

    T, I just read that article from the Observer. I know those guys are douches, but, shit, all of those girls mentioned in the article were such “victims”.

    If there is one main theme now found in our post-modern society is that either:
    1. Everyone is a victim, or
    2. Everyone wants to be a part of a victim group.

    We are doomed.

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  110. Michael, when I was 25, I met a sweet Israeli man online. We were friends first of all, with no romantic intentions towards each other. We were both married at the time, though neither of us believed in legal marriage, and both of our marriages had gone to hell by then…well, mine was in stagnation. His was in hell. His wife broke trust with him, and my husband was young, stupid, and thinking he was missing out on something. So ultimately he had to escape, and I just had to let go and stop holding onto someone who didn’t want to be there.

    To make a long story short, we ended up together, and I moved to Israel. About five years down the road, he hit the male wall, and because he’s more of a fetishist than I am, we became sexually incompatible.

    So that’s why I’m “on the market” again. I stay in Israel because of my daughter’s education and opportunities being better here.

    Also, it’s where my second husband grew up and made his life. It was easier for me to adjust to Israel than it would be for him to adjust to the U.S. Since he’s like a brother to me now, and I can’t see living far from him if I don’t have to, I don’t see the point in moving away. We’re still family in our hearts.

    In case it’s not clear though, I am odd. Some things about the general sexual/romantic market I can observe more easily as an outsider, but some things I just don’t get, which may be cause for some to get upset with me. I can be very condescending about certain issues, but I do understand that there’s a method to some of the madness, even if I don’t think the ends justify the means.

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  111. Nicole — Great tale, fun to hear about, tks. Life is seldom short on drama, that’s for sure. And you do a great job of pointing out that there are loads of niche and micro markets in the sexual marketplace — many thanks for that too.

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  112. […] seems to be quite a bit of ruminations on where things are headed at the moment, the influence of Roissy and his brutal assessment of the war between the sexes, and the men’s movement.  It is war […]

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  113. […] test me 25 06 2010 Others have blogged about shit tests before.  See Roissy and Willy […]

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  114. […] curiosity. This is a common shit test during the pick-up phase, and Roissy wrote on ways to pass it here. All of his suggestions work – I personally prefer the cocky-type answers because […]

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  115. […] block for a lot of would-be womanizers.There have been posts at the Chateau before about passing commonly encountered shit tests, so in the spirit of giving the people what they want, here is another installment in a continuing […]

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  116. ‘ * I love public sex/doing it upside down/kinky sex with ice cubes and strawberries.

    It’s a trap! If you haven’t had sex with her yet, you should avoid getting too excited when she starts bragging about her sexual dynamism. She’s smoking you out of your burrow with a tasty treat. The faster you pounce on it, the quicker she pegs you as a sexually undernourished beta. Acceptable answer: “Whoa, not so fast. Do you talk like this with your mother?” Or: “That’s cool. But I need to be wined and dined first.” Cocky answer: “Hey, are you auditioning for the Maury Povich show?”

    Sorry this is bullshit unless she really seems braggadocios! You may have developed chemistry and she might be trying to find out if you are sexually compatible. If you have built up a good bit of trust/comfort, attraction and connection then she might be thinking about messing around with you in some capacity. Always stay cool though, don’t get antsy that will always scare away any prospects. If she is really legitimately opening up to you about her sexuality and you neg her you are giving negative reinforcement to the act of opening up to you about sex.

    In this situation it is much better make the girl/woman comfortable opening up to you about it. Play it cool and act like this is normal to your lifestyle. Now might be the time to tell them about them about one of your escapades. Conversely you can drill down into her fantasy/fetish. I would really recommend this if you feel that she appears to want to tell you more. For example asking her: “What is it about public sex that turns you on?” or “What exactly do you mean by upside down sex: being suspended upside down, standing 69, etc.”

    One caveat though I believe that Roissy deals with a lot of sexy women (women who want a lot of sexual attention) while my journeys bring me into contact with a lot of sexual women (women who want sex in some form or another).

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  117. […] largely devolved to be an empty void replete with endless series of  inter-gender one up-manships, shit-tests, and general bullshittery. Looking at dating advice columns or books for women further proves my […]

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  118. […] largely devolved to be an empty void replete with endless series of  inter-gender one up-manships, shit-tests, and general bullshittery. Looking at dating advice columns or books for women further proves my […]

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