What Is A Natural?

Readers sometimes ask me: “What is a natural? How do you define one? What makes a natural who falls into pussy different from the majority of men who have to struggle every day of their lives to taste morsels of muff?”

The natural has three things going for him, that when combined into one ubermensch transforms him from a faceless dick on the prowl to a potent pickup machine.

  1. Genetic blessings. He was born with a seductive ability to understand women and relate to them in such a way that their legs spread unbidden to his subtle provocations. This ability is intuitive Game, no different in function than the game taught in books and at seminars, and it is an order of magnitude more critical to getting laid than being born with rugged good looks, though it is true the best naturals are born with both. Naturals are blessed with computational power shared equally between their right and left brain hemispheres, and they tend to be more verbally adept than the average man.
  2. He started young. Every natural I’ve known began their skirt chasing careers before their first pube sprouts saw the light of day. If you ask a PUA when he started getting good with women, he can usually tell you the exact day and time. If you ask a natural the same question, he’ll shrug his shoulders and say he’s always been this way.
  3. He tasted success before failure. That very first naive, bumbling attempt at the age of fourteen to win a cute girl’s heart will make or break a man’s future with women. Failure will leave an indelible mark that won’t ever wash away for many men, corrupting their confidence with women for decades. For other men, early failure lingers like a stinkbomb in the soul until he rescues his confidence through sheer willpower and ambition. But the natural had success with his first girl, and that fledgling success laid the foundation for his confidence to grow like a fission reaction building on itself.

You will find naturals disproportionately represented in the fields of sales, politics, the fine arts, psychology, and pimp-dom. Naturals are not necessarily the men who sleep with the most women, but they are the men who *could* sleep with the most women should they choose to do so. Many naturals are in leadership positions because the persuasive mind techniques they possess that open pussy are the same mental gifts that open career opportunities.

Silvio Berlusconi is a natural, and probably was one long before he became a billionaire and prime minister. If you doubt this, read the following taped transcript of a conversation between Silvio and one of his lovers (link provided by reader Butters):

Woman: A young man would have come in a second.. I mean he would have come… Young men usually have a lot of pressure.

Silvio: But if you will allow me… (muffled) I believe it is a family thing.

Woman: What?

Silvio: Having an orgasm.

Woman: You know how long it has been since I had sex like I had with you tonight. It’s several months, since I broke with my boyfriend. Is this normal?

Silvio: May I? You should have sex with yourself. You should touch yourself often.

These, my friends, are the seductive words of a natural. The woman in this conversation is thirty years younger than Silvio. Godspeed, you randy old fart. May we all have the blessings to enjoy our Golden Rod years the way you do.





Comments


  1. Pretty impressive. Except that a true “natural” wouldn’t have to pay for the pussy. He paid for that pussy. I give him credit for pleasing the “Ho” – because you really have to have a way with your rod to pleas a chick with a Lincoln Tunnell wide pussy hole.

    But lost in your analysis is the fact he paid for the pussy.

    I can’t nominate him as a “stallion.”

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  2. I wonder how much of the furor over Berlusconi’s dalliances is fueled by envy rather than outrage.

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  3. “Naturals” are usually born sociopaths. Not that that’s a useless or bad mental pathology to be equipped with. The key thing is charm, the ability to manipulate others, and being a good liar.

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  4. “He started young”

    I think this is one thing for sure that separates G’s from Pick up Artists.

    G’s were swooping girls well before Neil Strauss ever shaved is head.

    I have always done well with females.

    But I did have two moments that made things “click”.

    1. Senior year high school. Swooped the two flyest girls in the school, back to back.

    2. Swooping topless girls in Europe at age 20.

    I figured, if I can swoop beautiful French girls and barely speak the language, I am going to go on a tear when I get back to the USA.

    I haven’t looked back since.

    – MPM

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  5. this is all true – great post, great insights. especially #3. formative experiences of every kind usually have long-lasting psychological effects, and for something as fundamental as sex even more so.

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  6. Agreed with Ari: the conversation is tainted, since this is a conversation with an escort who will say anything to get paid / invited over again.

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  7. Oh, totally. I only started dating to improve my social skills to help me get ahead at work (I’m a major-league geek and lesser beta). It’s sort of ironic, being an inversion of the usual order (make money to get chicks).

    It relates to Mystery’s teaching about the three circles; if you don’t have love, health and money suffer too. Unfortunately (I really don’t like women very much, or at least the ugly ones I can get right now 🙂 ), you have to date to survive in your career.

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  8. He started young.

    Every boy needs to be introduced to a clean, attractive prostitute at puberty.

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  9. on July 24, 2009 at 3:08 pm Sal Paradise

    All true Roissy. I believe being born good looking and smart will usually turn you into a natural. By smart, I mean more based on wittiness and perceptive ability then being book smart.

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  10. Spending lots of time with women, as per Roissy’s post earlier in the week, at the critical ages of 13-16 will do wonders for the budding player.

    Of all the advice on picking up women I have come across, the best came when I was in 8th grade. At a barbecue, I was hanging out with a couple of ~40 year old guys. They were reminiscing about middle school and one said the smartest thing he did was sit at a table full of girls in the school cafeteria during lunch. One boy, 10 girls. For a year. You learn so much about women by spending 45 minutes a day in their company.

    So for the first two years of high school, that’s what I did. By junior/senior year, I had moved on but starting swooping girl after girl.

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  11. You’re wrong on one point – there aren’t many naturals in psychology. I’ve been through psych programs at several top universities so I have an idea.

    Psychology is usually 60-70% women, and there’s a lot of beta try-hards and herbs, just like any grad-degree job.

    Let’s just say generally that you study what you don’t have. Someone who’s trying to learn psychology academically is someone who doesn’t know it naturally.

    I think naturals gravitate towards places they can apply and monetize their people skills – PR, marketing, jobs with a lot of networking…

    Knowing the literature won’t help execution – it’s like guys in the community who read every website and think they’re gods, but can’t pull out in the field.

    Naturals know how to execute, but don’t necessarily have much insight to why they’re good, that’s why they give bad advice, right? They say “be friendly and smile” but they miss the 100 other things they’re doing unconsciously that make such bad advice work for them.

    I’d bet that if they started to read about psychology that might even fuck up their natural game, make ’em start thinking about what they’re doing.

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  12. I know a handful of better than average looking men that also have above average intelligence.

    However- these men hardly pursue women at all- and when they do shack up they settle below their level or potential level. Odd is it not?

    The one thing these men have in common is they don’t want to play games- they don’t understand why women (fuck and toy with them) play head games with them.

    It astonishes me- but these men aren’t willing to learn game- neither are they willing to pursue women if it involves more than a negligible amount of effort. So then they must settle for women that are less attractive than they are.

    Women in NYC are fucking, fucked up crazy bitches the lot of them. And i can understand why some good looking men that aren’t naturally charming can actually give up on women.

    What does that say of the average men in NYC without game? Answer: you don’t stand a fucking chance in NYC if you are average with no game- no fucking way to get laid not unless the stars align and you everything goes perfect with a new girl.

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  13. @ ari:

    “But lost in your analysis is the fact he paid for the pussy.”

    It’s not that clear cut: “In tapes and transcripts published earlier, Ms D’Addario was purportedly heard discussing her appointment in October with Mr Tarantini. He said that Mr Berlusconi would not be ‘taking you like an escort — he will be taking you as a friend of mine that I brought along’ and that the Prime Minister did not use condoms.”

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  14. on July 24, 2009 at 3:30 pm Willard Libby

    The woman in this conversation is thirty years younger than Silvio.

    The woman in this conversation is a 42 year old prostitute.

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  15. @Game in BK:

    Women in NYC are fucking, fucked up crazy bitches the lot of them. And i can understand why some good looking men that aren’t naturally charming can actually give up on women.

    This is not the first time I have heard the exact same account. Can anyone tell me why? I’ve spent a relatively short time in NYC (back in Toronto, now), so I haven’t picked up on the larger social dynamic at hand.

    My friend in NY tried his hand at online dating, and has been dating someone for a couple months now as a result. There’s ugly, and then there’s horrendously ugly. She has the look of someone who’s developmentally challenged, but ISN’T. He could do much better in terms of attractiveness, but hasn’t had too much luck in the scene there…

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  16. Naturals know how to execute, but don’t necessarily have much insight to why they’re good, that’s why they give bad advice, right? They say “be friendly and smile” but they miss the 100 other things they’re doing unconsciously that make such bad advice work for them.

    I concur with this 100%. One of my best friends is a lady-killer. He’s unstoppable. And he has no fucking clue how he does it. He couldn’t explain his game if his life depended on it.

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  17. I commented a few days ago about the importance of senior mentors, experienced swordsmen who can pass the wisdom of the cooch-catching ages on to the next generation.

    Silvio B. is the alpha of the decade, maybe new century. I would feast on his crumbs, the pussy he cannot accommodate despite his obvious viriility (the guy is 72, heads a billion-dollar corporate empire, and has a major country to run, yet still is getting more hot pussy than he can handle: think about that).

    I suspect Silvio has forgotten more about the hunt than all of us reading here will ever know, combined.

    Viva l’Italia! Viva Berlusconi!

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  18. So the three main points of this post are:

    1) Be sure to pick your parents carefully

    2) Go back in time and transplant your current mind into your middle-school self.

    3) Be sure to have a good experience with the first girl you find.

    What could be simpler??? Thanks Roissy.

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  19. Thanks for the post about me he he he

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  20. I had zero luck here- until i began to learn game- roissy MM and Dr. paul in particular.

    My theory:
    Most women that move here are EXPECTING to date either the I banker or the Williamsburg hipster / band dirt bag.

    They don’t want men that have (cubicle dwellers) normal jobs. And there is another element to this.

    Most women that move here are alpha. They were valedictorian / slash home coming queen / popularity queen / rich / extremely beautiful, but not pretty enough to make it as a model actress.

    So you send millions of elite alpha Wisconsin and Kansas City females to NYC- and once they arrive they find that they are surrounded by other overachievers! They are no longer special- I mean so what if you want to an Ivy League school, that’s a big deal in Toledo, but in Manhattan all of the tenants in building you live in speak 5 languages, and their parents actually own the building you are living in and that Hampton’s summer house.

    The men that game here- have harems of women hanging onto them. The ones that can’t game get nothing.

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  21. one exception to the rule, a natural I know was late getting across the pussicon river. He is an exemplar, nonetheless of the Tom Brady Guide to Sexual Harassment. Be really, really good looking and chicks will do all the work for you. He is also further proof that there is nothing you can learn from a natural. As they say in the NBA, you can’t coach height.

    On the other hand, Tom Cruise had like six sisters, so to him, the female mind and female presence was laid bare at an early age. No fear talking to chicks, apparently.

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  22. S.

    It’s funny that you said that. i have a friend in a relation ship- above average intelligence and height, passionate and multi talented- Also very naturally charming.

    A- he is not rich
    B- he does not want to play or learn the game
    c- he is a pc feminist and believes in true love.

    Ergo- he is dating a girl that looks as if she might be a little developmentally challenged– as you say.

    This is fucking New York City- if you need to online date here; you got some big fucking problems!

    There are hot unattached women EVERY FUCKING WHERE! And still men can’t get SHIT!

    I feel bad for your male bud- i choose not to go the online route, because the women that use it are not to my taste- – to put it mildly.

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  23. Ari:

    “Pretty impressive. Except that a true “natural” wouldn’t have to pay for the pussy.”

    I initially thought the same thing, but then i had to think about it. If a rich and powerful man wants to get laid, he can’t hook up with just any woman. He has to beware getting caught; by her blackmailing him; or general indiscreetness.

    So, for a man in a position of power (Eliot Spitzer, Berlusconi, the Senator from Louisiana a few years back), a prosititute is the best bet for fulfilling that lust. The women are generally good looking, at least the high level escorts, they have to be discreet by nature, since prostitution is illegal and they can’t blow the whistle so easily.

    The betaness of using escorts increases as the man’s social status decreases. A 20 year old single man using an escort is a sad situation; he should be getting young, free pussy, and nobody gives two shits that he’s doing it.

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  24. Chuck: you’re right, an escort is convenient for someone in that position.

    However, while using an escort does not take away from his status, it does not “prove” he was a natural to begin with either. Any billionaire can say anything to a paid escort and she will react well. The customer is always right after all.

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  25. I am beginning to tailor my game to NYC.
    I call it cubicle worker game.

    I am average (or slightly below) in almost every regard.
    In other words there is nothing that is special about me to the opposite sex- nothing outside of game that is.

    There are millions of single women that work dreary cubicle jobs here. Same old shit every single day- and the men that they meet in the office and at the local bars are mostly the same template- – IE boring.

    So I swoop into their lives, and I come in especially to seduce and romance them. This alone might be what distinguishes me from the masses.

    I’m still a work in progress as this is the first year that I have begun to use game in field. But the results I have seen between this year and last (pre / post game) are incredible.

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  26. lots of comments here are right on the money.

    Let me offer my take as food for thought on this Friday afternoon. My friends tell me I’m a natural and that I get away with shit they could never do. I have never known game. In fact I’ve never boasted about being good with women. From highschool through college I always just stumbled into pussy with exerted little effort. Girls just came to me. I was never what you would call extroverted or even that “cool”. I was a late bloomer in all regards. However, I always knew how to interact with women, make them laugh or make them comfortable, and had a great perception of what makes other people tick. Additionally I’m told I have a “way with words” This is true. I speak and articulate ideas well and in forms tailored appropriately and most effectively to the audience. I dont think, I just speak with the correct energy, tone, timbre, pace, emphasis and body language for the given situation. This has given me the ability to get along with and win over virtually any type of person. Charming sonofabithch me. Only when I reached my mid to late twenties did I become aware of how people react to me and how I operated among people in all of life’s arenas. I was never self-reflective until maybe the age of 26. Once I became aware of these abilities and characteristics and then applied them in goal oriented behavior it was like opening the flood gate. Following that moment , it was like when an X-man discovers how to wield, control and focus his powers. The same abilities have led me to great success in various sales and management consulting gigs and in the various social circles I operate in. I suppose if needed I could articulate for someone what it is that makes me successful with women (and all people in various life contexts). But that’s why I read this blog. It validates much of what Ive always naturally been inclinded to do with women, and its entertaining to read the psychology behind it.

    For a few years I spent time in therapy to try to get a handle on myself — it became apparent to me that Im just a narcissistic, organic machine whose main algorithm is to most efficiently get what it wants from people. It made me question the basis of all relationships in my life and wonder if Im capable of the emotions needed to sustain a meaningful relationship beyond the short term utility (sexual and non-sexual fun) I get out of it. i.e. am I a sociopath doc?

    My theory for why I turned out this way is pretty basic. I have some advantages for sure. My parents are Swiss – my whole family is tall, lean and good looking. blond hair blue eyes. Im 6’4, very handsome, tall, intelligent and athletic and socially graceful. it helps. For whatever reason I can also read people like a book and easily press their buttons and discern their desires and motives. The biggest factor when it comes to women however is that I have always been extremely comfortable in the presence of any and all women my whole life and likewise they are comfortable with me. I think this is because my parents divorced when I was very young and I grew up in a household of a mother and three sisters. I never had a good relationship with my father as he was a deadbeat. I didnt have any male role models other than my school friends father’s. But it forced me to be the man of the house from a young age and, in hindsight, I know that it taught me how to deal with women effectively since I was literally surrounded by them – my mother, sisters and their friends – doing all their girly stuff. This was all internalized at a young age and is manifested in my behavior today. My sisters and my mother love and admire me greatly and basically spoil me when I visit them. It seems logical then that I expect all women to treat me this way. Roissy or another PUA would say that this is the correct frame of mind for picking up women. Growing up like this, Im shocked I didnt turned out to be gay. Instead Im an extremely lustful consumer, afficionado and fan of women and all that makes them beautiful.

    My buddies shake their heads in disbelief when I says things to their wives , making them laugh , that they themselves would get slapped for. My friends’ girlfriends and wives are fascinated by my stories of the women I cavort with. The funny thing is they know I sleep with tons of girls but somehow still think Im a great guy and always try to set me up with their friends as if I just need to meet the right girl. I routinely sleep with women in my office. Luckily there is high turnover for the younger people which has reduced the incidence of drama.

    any thoughts? can anyone relate?

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  27. on July 24, 2009 at 5:05 pm Sebastian Flyte

    The best naturals are far superior to the best pickup artists.

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  28. I think the online route is a last resort. It’s true that there are a lot of hot, single women in NY but they’re often unapproachable or ridiculous in terms of what they expect. Most of them are users looking to be wined and dined. It’s probably better to get a fresh-faced girl who just moved to the city and isn’t too jaded or influenced by the culture at large …yet.

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  29. Here’s a question for all the experts here. What is the best way to handle the situation when your — well, you know — is so small that girls laugh when they see it?

    [editor: heh. smart play, herbie. any guy who answers this has called himself out. sorry, i can’t help you here.]

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  30. “The best naturals are far superior to the best pickup artists.”

    Debatable. I believe that pickup artists eventually have an advantage due to the sheer volume of women they approach. It seems unlikely that a natural would actively go “sarging.” Rather, they are simply able to dominate their interactions with the women who happen to cross their path. A recovering AFC could potentially become more adept than a lifelong natural in a matter of months.

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  31. S.

    i have seen it many times with my own eyes- the girls do begin to change once they move here.

    After they settle in a little- these women that were formally from the heartland become some of the worst sex and the city Divas you have ever seen!

    It’s almost as if they think they need to act in a NYC way- so they in a way become bitchier and feel more entitled than women that have been here for a few years.

    it would be comical if it weren’t so true.

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  32. It’s interesting how it affects male behavior. My time in NY was wonderful. I found the men super-friendly, super-approachable, and extremely easy to talk to. It’s almost as if they treat you better when they discover you’re not looking for a meal ticket.

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  33. Herbie,

    Call in a stunt double. (AKA: “Bring me my stuntcock.”)

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  34. on July 24, 2009 at 6:42 pm D. Ray Morton

    @ Game In BK

    “Women in NYC are fucking, fucked up crazy bitches the lot of them. And i can understand why some good looking men that aren’t naturally charming can actually give up on women.”

    Fucking, fucked-up crazy bitches with nuclear-irradiated attitudes and fairytale standards. Best dating advice for an NYC dweller who isn’t Superman? Move. Or employ the ol’ “club-n-drag” method.

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  35. “What is the best way to handle the situation when your — well, you know — is so small that girls laugh when they see it?”

    —you just described the plot of “Unforgiven.” (Awesome movie, the last of the great Westerns.)

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  36. The guys I know who are the best with women, have almost uniformly been as bad at life in general as they are good with women. They tend to live almost completely in the moment, and hence often have almost absurdly chaotic lives. They aren’t in sales, the arts etc. They just barely get by.

    However, a very select few men, like many of the pick up gurus, can be good both at life and with women. They can run their businesses well and get the girl at the same time.

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  37. Chuck, the weird thing is a lot of escorts are discreet women by nature—even their tell alls have pseuodyms for guys. It’s really sluts—like Washingtoinne—who are talkers.

    I think a lot of hookers enjoy the anonymity of their lives—much like outlaws in the old west, they enjoy living ont he fringes and having secrets.

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  38. There is nothing more pathetic than a natural who has lost his mojo. They have no resources on which to fall back on. They can’t understand why their magic powers have left them. This seems to happen a lot more to the emotionally volatile naturals who have a strong feminine streak.

    Game is often very useful for these guys in making them able to consciously reconstruct what it is that led to their previous success. Sometimes the combined power of their natural abilities and their newfound theoretical knowledge makes them almost unstoppable.

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  39. Everyone wants to be a natural.

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  40. on July 24, 2009 at 7:09 pm Flyover Country

    I think NYC tends to attract a certain type of woman. There was a girl in my circle of friends who moved to NYC, and when she would come home to visit she would entertain us with stories about her sex-and-the-city lifestyle. But aside from her entertainment value, I really couldn’t stand her. She was the cuntiest bitch in town. And out of all the girls here, that was the one who moved to NY.

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  41. The best naturals are far superior to the best pickup artists.

    Sinn, former lead instructor for Mystery Method/Lovesystems thinks it’s the opposite. He says that most really good naturals only get about 10-12 girls a year, while best guys in the community do significantly better.

    The very best naturals are those who not only have natural talent, but who have a conscious understanding of what they do. That combination is extremely rare.

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  42. You can make this analogy Thursay: naturals are like the guys who are really good at hoops, and dominate in games with neighborhood kids in their teens. And some just stay there.

    While a PUA is his less talented friend, who is frustrated with always losing pickup games. So he studies, trains, practices, listens to coaches, evaluates his performance… and then beats the natural.

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  43. The genetic factor is by far the most important, and the other two probably just stem from that in most cases.

    Naturals have early experiences *because* of their superior genetics. They have success early on *because* of their superior genetics.

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  44. on July 24, 2009 at 7:49 pm D. Ray Morton

    @ Thursday

    “He says that most really good naturals only get about 10-12 girls a year, while best guys in the community do significantly better.”

    Because naturals tend not to be nearly as committed and diligent as guys in the community.

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  45. Why Berlusconi’s alpha (and why even observing him with a call girl yields valuable insights):

    (1) “Patrizia D’Addario, 42, a former actress from Bari in southern Italy, says she spent the night of November 4, when Barack Obama was elected president of the United States, at Palazzo Grazioli, Berlusconi’s Rome residence. She described the experience: ‘I never slept . . . He was tireless, a bull.'”

    (2) “Berlusconi, 72, has branded her account ‘trash and lies’, saying he did not remember her. He had never paid a woman for sex, he explained, adding: ‘I never understood what the satisfaction is when you are missing the pleasure of conquest.'”

    (3) “According to D’Addario, Berlusconi led her to a four-poster bed with white drapes and quilt which he said were a gift from Vladimir Putin, the Russian prime minister. ”

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6590890.ece?token=null&offset=0&page=1

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  46. She described the experience: ‘I never slept . . . He was tireless, a bull.’”

    Yea that is a natural. he he he

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  47. “Every boy needs to be introduced to a clean, attractive prostitute at puberty.”

    Is it?

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  48. What is a natural?

    A friend of mine was a “natural” in junior high, and had girls falling all over him. But he turned out to be homosexual (although he still won’t cop to it), and now he is a radical Catholic virgin.

    I took my time, and came into my own at 15 or so, but I’d had some bad experiences with the much wealthier girls at the private school I attended. Fortunately, I was smart enough to go get some fun elsewhere, and it was pretty easy.

    But today, I still can’t stand a certain type of woman. The ambitious, coddled type makes me sick. I therefore end up with hot but poorly-educated women from the “provinces,” so to speak. Not that they are any better as far as wives or LTRs are concerned, but I simply don’t want to bother with the closed-minded BS that you have to swallow when you get involved with your typical American SWPL girl.

    I suppose if I had my way I’d live in some wooded retreat like Tom Bombadil, but how can you do that these days? I had a girl from Idaho try to game me the other day, but I’m just so stuck now. I met a couple of Taiwanese women today while at the park with my children, and told them I hated Seattle because it is such a sorry excuse for a city. They agreed that it is a terribly boring place to be, but as much as I’d like to fly off to the Himalayas, I can’t bring myself to leave my kids.

    It is a hard time to be a man. Perhaps the only option is radical freedom. That’s all I can embrace at this point, and for all I know, given the court’s attitude toward fathers, it may land me in jail.

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  49. “A 20 year old single man using an escort is a sad situation; he should be getting young, free pussy, and nobody gives two shits that he’s doing it.”

    Is it?

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  50. Basketball analogies are often illuminating. Naturals who peak early are like Dominique Wilkins. Wilkins had tremendous atheltic ability and could essentially score at will. But he probably never understood the finer mechanics of the game, and so he never took his team very deep in the playoffs.

    Compare his career to Larry Bird. Bird was the quinissential PUA student of game (think mehow). He had little of Nique’s athletic ability (pathetic hops, average strength, little explosiveness), but his intelligence and knowledge of the game pushed him to far greater success than Nique would ever achieve.

    A superior student of Game will likely do better in the long-run than a Natural who is unaware of the bigger picture.

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  51. I am going to get a Berlusconi poster and hang it on my wall. Then I am going to get a Berlusconi pumper sticker and put it on my car’s bumper. Finally, I am going to create a brand of condoms called “Silvio” with quotations from Berlusconi written on them and a smiling face of Silvio emblazoned on the tip that enters the blessed vagina.

    This man has been elevated to hero/god status in true ancient Roman fashion through his heroic conquests. God bless him.

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  52. Guys, many of the naturals with superior genetics (both big & good looking) end up getting the choicest girls early on, get married to them, and are never out at the bars.

    I can think of three very good looking guys from my old neighborhood who married their high school sweethearts right out of high school. These guys never did the bars to my knowledge because they were married before they turned 21 (you had to be 21 to go to bars back in my day unless you got your hands on a fake I.D.). I dont think any of these guys ever got divorced (or I haven’t heard of it if they did). Some of my cousins got married while in college, and never did the bars (religious family, except me……….the black sheep).

    Now that we can get in bars pre-21 (but not drink) there are probably less women who never experienced going to a club. To be honest, this is probably a bad thing. A woman learns something bad at the clubs: she learns that she can obtain sex from men who are genetically better-looking than herself pretty easily. She wont get to marry them, but she knows she can get sex from them. It makes it harder for her to ‘settle’ for the love of a man she can actually have and keep, so she delays that until her own looks/value is fading. Its probably like a drug to women in that regard.

    I used to live with two apex-natural-alphas in my twenties. They slept with an extrodinary number of women. It was comic rooming with them and watching the endless parade. Whats really funny is that they eventually married women they DID NOT meet in clubs. I dont think one’s wife in particular has any idea of what kind of man she married. She probably thinks he’s only been with 10 women or so. The number is probably north of 600.

    Like


  53. Id have definitely voted for Berlusconi for US President over McCain or Obama.
    I think we need a viable third party and run off elections between the two top-vote getting parties so no “vote-splitting” takes place (remember Ross Perot or Nadar in 2000). If we had the “run-off” feature, we’d have a viable third and probably fourth party, and our politics wouldn’t always be vested extreme interests vs. the sensible middle so damned much.

    What I like about Berlusconi is what Ive liked about many alpha males (Elvis Presley, John Wayne, Errol Flynn, Clark Gable, Gary Cooper, Tom Jones, Bear Bryant, Ronald Reagan, etc). They LIKED being men. They never apologized for being manly.

    Like


  54. Z, Berlusconi may be admirable for his alpha traits, but his governing leaves much to be desired. His stranglehold on the media is similar to Putin’s, and he’s left Italy’s economy stagnant and weak.

    I’m not at all sure alphas make the best statesman. The first instinct of most alphas is to control and dominate. That can be good in times of war or crises, but in peacetime I think you end up with a situation like Berlusconi.

    Like


  55. Every boy needs to be introduced to a clean, attractive prostitute at puberty.

    Funny, our society would consider that horrible child abuse. Yet if I could go back and change my life, one of the changes I would wish for is to have been sexually active with and educated by an older woman when I was 13 or 14. I have no doubt it would have made me a happier, calmer, more functional teenager and adult, as long as there had been no coercion, just opportunity.

    Like


  56. z – I like any idea that would break the stranglehold on our politics by career politicians working for the Democrats and Democrats Lite (Republicans).

    This country desperately needs to return to its own Constitution. I was very happy to see Texas threaten to block ObamaCare in their state, if it passes, on 10th Amendment grounds. Our Congress has been busy debating a health care bill that is not legal by any reasonable interpretation of our Constitution. We’ve forgotten what “separation of powers” even means in this country.

    Like


  57. Man that was a good post.

    Like


  58. May want to add born rich
    Which I was which added to my confidence probably for my whole life. I know it is possible to do. I have seen it. I know what the lifestyle looks like i have lived it.

    Like


  59. Hormoaning

    His stranglehold on the media is similar to Putin’s,

    Highly exaggerated. But perhaps too great.

    and he’s left Italy’s economy stagnant and weak.

    Highly misleading. Almost all developed country’s economy’s are weak and stagnant now. Italy has long had economic problems after a magnificent 60’s and 70s spurt. Irresponsible socialist and fragmented governments most of all. Berlesconi started out bringing economic strength.

    Like


  60. “Here’s a question for all the experts here. What is the best way to handle the situation when your — well, you know — is so small that girls laugh when they see it?”

    http://www.mattersofsize.com

    Worth looking at for anyone with less than 8″ (the bottom 99%)

    Like


  61. Why are Alpha males and females naturals? Duh, of course it’s genetic! Of course, they would link up at an earlier age and get more success then Betas. Before birth control, Alphas were parents before Betas and the olden days ought to have been considerably more Alpha than nowadays (hence women ask “why is it harder to find more real men these days?”) what with the huge amount of Alpha genes in the general population. I find it interesting in biology there are certain bird species that operate in little tribes and all pitch in but only the Alpha male and Alpha female are allowed to make babies.

    Like


  62. “But the natural had success with his first girl, and that fledgling success laid the foundation for his confidence to grow like a fission reaction building on itself.”

    This, I think, is true in other fields of endeavor as well. I had a similar thought last Sunday while reading “The Boss” feature in the NY Times Business section. It was about the bio of the woman who’s the CEO of Kenneth Cole. Basically, she never tasted failure in her career, from getting into an Ivy League b-school with a full ride onward, and success built on success. Some people deal with adversity and overcome it strongly, but there’s a nice tailwind for folks who skip the adversity in the first place.

    Like


  63. Gil:

    I find it interesting in biology there are certain bird species that operate in little tribes and all pitch in but only the Alpha male and Alpha female are allowed to make babies.

    Yes, but remember competition is never far away. Wikpedia states three possible reasons for the helpers at the nest, all egoistic:

    Advantage to the helpers, who may be protected from predation, or gain skills that they will need when they subsequently reproduce, as a result of staying in the parental nest.

    Kin selection: since subsequent litters or broods from the same parents will be full siblings to the helpers, they are as closely related genetically as their own offspring would be. Helping their parents is therefore as productive for the juveniles as reproducing themselves would be, and if their parents are better able to reproduce, the balance of advantage may be greater.
    Delayed advantage to the helpers, in particular because they stand to inherit their parents’ territory; this explanation is particularly compelling if suitable territories are in short supply, but requires specific quantitative conditions to be met, favouring a stable queue of potential heirs.

    Just like in wolf packs, the “helpers” are mostly hoping the alphas will die so they can get their chance to be alpha and reproduce themselves. More harmony in so closely related birds, but still competitive.

    Like


  64. Wow! You can identify a “natural” because he has “genetic blessings”? That is so counterintuitive! Why would someone with genetic blessings be called a “natural”? Thank goodness Roissy is around to explain, explain, explain!

    And get this…naturals have always been good with the ladies! Ever since they were young! It’s like they have an ability that’s not learned…it’s not artificial…it’s just…just…damn it I can’t think of the word!

    I can’t believe Roissy is giving these pearls away.

    Like


  65. on July 25, 2009 at 8:04 am Epoxytocin No. 87

    @ ATC

    Wow! You can identify a “natural” because he has “genetic blessings”? That is so counterintuitive!

    If you bother to read the paragraph, you will notice that roissy is taking one side of a still-contentious nature-versus-nurture debate regarding personality traits.

    @ DaveInHackensack

    This, I think, is true in other fields of endeavor as well. I had a similar thought last Sunday while reading “The Boss” feature in the NY Times Business section. It was about the bio of the woman who’s the CEO of Kenneth Cole. Basically, she never tasted failure in her career, from getting into an Ivy League b-school with a full ride onward, and success built on success.

    She wrote the article herself, dipshit.
    Also, she’s female, and rich, and Jewish, and connected. I shouldn’t have to tell you that, for such people, the corporate ladder is more like a corporate escalator.

    Like


  66. on July 25, 2009 at 8:16 am Epoxytocin No. 87

    @ SFG

    Oh, totally. I only started dating to improve my social skills to help me get ahead at work (I’m a major-league geek and lesser beta).

    I can understand men who like to make lots of money, but I don’t understand men who like to spend lots of money.
    At all.
    Big spending is a seriously feminine trait.

    I only value money for three reasons: (1) to cover my ass when I’m old, (2) to provide for my future children, and (3) to get myself out of trouble.

    @ PA

    Every boy needs to be introduced to a clean, attractive prostitute at puberty.

    I hope this is a joke.

    I’ve never consorted with a prostitute, but I would imagine that doing so – especially as a first run – would sour me, a LOT, on the whole idea of sex.
    Sex with a woman who doesn’t want you – where “want” and “you” are both important – seems like it would be way worse than no sex at all.

    Like


  67. on July 25, 2009 at 8:21 am Epoxytocin No. 87

    @ Game in BK

    The men that game here- have harems of women hanging onto them. The ones that can’t game get nothing.

    Ok seriously. What is this meme about NYC pickup being so hard?
    Maybe I’m an outlier here, but my experience is that it’s WAY easier to score pussy in NYC than just about anywhere else in coastal America. Bush-league shit compared to Miami, LA, or San Francisco.

    Like


  68. on July 25, 2009 at 8:30 am Epoxytocin No. 87

    @ Thursday

    The guys I know who are the best with women, have almost uniformly been as bad at life in general as they are good with women. They tend to live almost completely in the moment, and hence often have almost absurdly chaotic lives. They aren’t in sales, the arts etc. They just barely get by.

    Occam’s razor, bro.
    View from the inside: When you’re getting all the pussy in the world, the motivation – and the time – to do more than subsistence-level work just isn’t there.

    Like


  69. Hormoaning – GREAT analogy with Wilkins and Bird . a natural who studies the game and applies it would undoubtedly be a Michael Jordan

    Like


  70. Re: Paying for sex

    Lots of comments doubting game if it involves an escort… but don’t all men in one way or another pay for sex?

    How often does a free date result in sex?

    Like


  71. W/ all the available options in NYC, I can hardly believe it’s that difficult to pickup there. There’s a woman of a different flavor, taste, and background on every corner… and w/ the popularity of S&C, etc. a deep relationship doesn’t seem to be the aim.

    Seems to be a place you can try, fail, and try right after with the next one w/o a second thought.

    Like


  72. The subject of naturals makes me think of the statistic that the majority of men do not reproduce (what was it, only 40% do, is that correct?). Yet, they are the product of a successful reproduction attempt. How can most men not reproduce if the genetic potential is there?

    There are environmental factors, which did change radically in recent years.

    Still: Why didn’t evolution guarantee powerfully that all men that exist today have the genetic potential to be very, very good with women?

    Has there been an explanation for this?

    Or is it in fact, true, and all the environmental factors cripple these genetics?

    Speaking of naturals, you said zero about a male role model or father figure to learn from. That is, it could be an uncle or a Dad that he has a healthy attachment pattern to. Even if they can’t teach it to him consciously, they can unconsciously. The kid internalises all his attitudes and behaviours, including the subtle ones.

    Like


  73. @691:

    That’s how my boyfriend taught himself game. He used to be ridiculously shy, and decided to make it a point to surround himself with girls throughout high school to learn about them.

    Like


  74. Dreamer: The problem with escorts is the subject of sexual desire. To different extents with men, but being wanted sexually is important. Not essential to enjoying himself for the men that have no problem using their services.

    I’m not sure from where I get this but: the best escorts can consistently fake wanting him very well and convincingly. Tricks like ice on certain spots. Thus creating the fantasy that yes, you are the special snowflake that may have her for free next time even, if only she could afford it (kudoes to lurker for this achievement, though why wasn’t he wearing a condom? Regular sexual health clinics regardless of whether you can verify if she’s a professional whore or a wannabe one, if that’s what you’re going to be upto with your sexual encounters, dear. Maybe he was messing if condomless.).

    In the UK, anyway:
    Yes, more men are using prostitutes.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4488254.stm
    Why? Anecdotally, actually, they can’t get any from their LTRs (and divorce is too expensive?).

    Notice how it’s important to them that they are friends and have conversations and the girls are happy. Thus, perhaps,
    unpopularity of unsafe drug-addicted street prostitutes?

    I like this year 2000 US study which attempts to explain away men having more sexual partners as them being with prostitutes. Doubtful it’s only professional prostitutes.

    Like


  75. A) Most of the “naturals”–who get non-stop pussy seemingly w/o effort–tend to be employed in the IT field. B) Roissy must be at least part Italian,the way he lauds dear old Silvio.

    Like


  76. “Why didn’t evolution guarantee powerfully that all men that exist today have the genetic potential to be very, very good with women?”

    1) Here’s where your womanhood makes you blind. Men do not just have to pass some minimum threshold of attractiveness, like women do. No matter how good the “average” man is, women will always hold out for the above-average men. Men have almost certainly been steadily improving genetically since the beginning of time, but within one generation half of the men will always be below average and hence undesirable to women.

    2) When the qualities that women are attracted to change rapidly, you end up with generations of men whose father’s “alpha” genes are no longer desirable. In the 60s cultural revolution we abandoned our mores and values and devolved into a more primitive mindset. It is no surprise that African men, who were bred almost entirely in primitive societies, are more suited to the new culture than men whose ancestors were bred in more advanced societies.

    Like


  77. on July 25, 2009 at 12:15 pm jack gladney

    My take on NYC pickup–8s and above will be very, very difficult without notable status, wealth, demonstrable accomplishments/ability, or extraordinary fashion sense and game. 6s – 7.5s can be a pain in the ass too, and being a regular guy with a regular cubicle job with nothing in particular to distinguish yourself on paper can be a very serious hurdle to overcome. If you don’t have a good routine to get around “what do you?/what are your goals?, etc.” type questions, you can be ejected immediately. However, there is such an unbelievable overload of available 6s-7.5s that approaching in bulk could conceivably get you laid by a different one 365 days a year. And a few of those days, your bound luck out with an 8. (8.5+, I really think it’s impossible without some extra-game attributes)

    Overall, as a breed the girls in NYC are not easy, but it is easy to get a girl in NYC.

    Side note–If you can tolerate hanging out with hipster chicks, classic alpha-asshole-not-ashamed-of-my-masculinity game can be REALLY effective. Like shooting fish in a barrel. They go for the “wimpster” thing only because they status they perceive in that role…being in the presence of a man acting like a man will give their ginas a tingle they haven’t felt since grade school. Disarming their would-be wimpster suitors (on the off chance one does have the sack to challenge you) can be great fun as well.

    Like


  78. “Silvio: May I? You should have sex with yourself. You should touch yourself often.”

    That’s actually good advice for women. Women who know their own bodies are more fun sexually and do a better job choosing men.

    Like


  79. “She wrote the article herself, dipshit.”

    I’m not sure why you feel compelled to call me a “dipshit” here. If you are familiar with “The Boss” articles, which appear every week in the Business section, you’d know that they are always “as told to” a Times reporter (in this case, Amy Zipkin). Not that any of what you wrote negates my point though.

    Yes, she is female, Jewish, rich, and connected now. But she wasn’t born rich or connected, just Jewish and female (she grew up in Queens, and her dad was a photographer — not the most lucrative of professions if you’re not a famous one). If you haven’t noticed, not every Jewish woman is the CEO of a major company. The point is that this woman was successful early, and that fueled her future success.

    Here’s a link to the article if anyone wants to read it:

    “As for What You Want”

    Like


  80. ””””””””ATC
    Wow! You can identify a “natural” because he has “genetic blessings”? That is so counterintuitive! Why would someone with genetic blessings be called a “natural”? Thank goodness Roissy is around to explain, explain, explain!

    And get this…naturals have always been good with the ladies! Ever since they were young! It’s like they have an ability that’s not learned…it’s not artificial…it’s just…just…damn it I can’t think of the word!

    I can’t believe Roissy is giving these pearls away.””””””””””””””””””””’

    But it is a pearl.

    Like


  81. From what I know about him, my dad could probably be considered alpha. He had a lot of different girlfriends in high school (so my aunt tells me), he was engaged to a girl who wasn’t my mother by 18, and today he is a successful businessman. He also never misses an opportunity to flirt with hot young chicks, many of whom are my age or younger.

    And then there’s 23 year old me whose only sexual contact with women has come from using hookers.

    Genetics or environment? It’s hard to say.

    Like


  82. mike:
    So what constitutes female [sexual] attraction and what’s the basis for this?

    You’re saying that it is relative (i.e. depends on averages) and that the qualities women’re attracted to can somehow also change rapidly. What determines what qualities they’re attracted to, then?

    Did the change in the 60s change what women were attracted to or did it simply unleash their preexisting sexuality or did it suppress what made men attractive to them?

    john:

    A) Most of the “naturals”–who get non-stop pussy seemingly w/o effort–tend to be employed in the IT field.

    Oh… really?

    Were you kidding?

    Like


  83. “And then there’s 23 year old me whose only sexual contact with women has come from using hookers.”

    My guess: Your dad had a much more chaotic home life than the one he provided you.

    Like


  84. i’d like to see a post on pre-qualifying during the approach. i have decided that a girl being sexy, giving me her phone number is not enough anymore. there has to be something else, i dont know what to call it, a vibe perhaps, that makes me want to invest my time in her. i have to agree with mystery on this, beauty is common. so you’re cute or hot, big fucking deal. sure i need to fuck and all that, but TIME is man’s most valuable commodity. more valuable than gold. how long does it take to fuck the average american chick ? 1-3 dates ? i have been hanging with a french and spanish girl the last few weeks and maybe i am feeling spoiled but american women simply do not compare. chilling with these euros has made me realize how our culture has ruined women. boring, pop culture addled, masculine traits (which gives me negative boners) self entitled personalities make me run for the hills. i find myself getting numbers from hot american chicks and pulling the crumpled paper move ala vince vaughn in swingers. there is nothing more disappointing than being able to go through all the hurdles, approach, seduction, fuck, etc. and at the end of the day it just feels meh. now i am focusing my energy on deciphering very quickly whether i want to spend more than 15 minutes in the presence of this woman. time is of the essence and i don’t want to waste it on sub-par experiences.

    Like


  85. @ Dreamer

    W/ all the available options in NYC, I can hardly believe it’s that difficult to pickup there. There’s a woman of a different flavor, taste, and background on every corner… and w/ the popularity of S&C, etc. a deep relationship doesn’t seem to be the aim.

    Seems to be a place you can try, fail, and try right after with the next one w/o a second thought.

    SRSLY. If you can’t get laid in NYC…you can’t get laid.

    Like


  86. As I said in NYC: if you are an average joe with an average life- you ain’t getting laid- PERIOD.
    You need to learn game just to get your foot in the door with a NYC 5.5- because even she was an overachiever in her field of study- that’s why she moved here from Washington state or Indiana.

    With game there is an overabundance of women in NYC- but you still need to learn it, and more importantly implement it.

    I believe game can elevate the average man in NYC to above average- thus you can distinguish yourself from the masses, even if only just a little bit.

    I’ve been in the NYC meat market for years- and I can tell you pre game I got close to nothing. Maybe I got 1 number every two months- maybe. And those numbers usually lead to nothing except dead air through flakes. AFC to the max- and I see all of my average friends get less than nothing, one thing I have always had going for me is a higher than average sex drive- so that would force me to try different things from time to time.
    But NYC women can be brutal / savage to average AFC men with zero game.
    Average looking NYC women- They can be so devastating to the AFC that he might actually consider joining the priesthood.
    It is common here to see a better than average AFC looking man with a better than average paycheck going out with a girl that is well below his potential.

    Post game I’ve accomplished things I never thought possible. I’ve seen it happen with my own eyes because it is happening as we speak. I have only just now begun to game in earnest.

    Epoxytocin- i assume you have game, and better than average looks- that is why you found it easy in NYC.

    Like


  87. SRSLY. If you can’t get laid in NYC…you can’t get laid.

    That is not at all true. NY is one of the harder places to get laid. For every guy you’ve hooked up with, think of the dozens you didn’t. NY is soft polygamy at its worst. And I’m speaking as someone who actually did get laid in NY, even I when I didn’t want to work so hard would get my friends and travel somewhere, ANYwhere, just to have an easier go at it. In NY women are harder.

    Like


  88. on July 25, 2009 at 4:06 pm D. Ray Morton

    @ Game In BK

    What/whom have you found most helpful in the way of methods, teachers, etc.?

    Like


  89. I have a good friend who is a natural, the kind of guy who can have sex with an attractive women with in a couple hours of meeting her more days than not. He has done this consistently despite being not good looking, dressed like a bum and usually unemployed. He is very, very masculine, like a somewhat more laid back Clark Gable.

    All of the things Roissy said apply to him.

    He thinks that 3 is the most important factor. He believes that one lucky experiences around when he was 14 or so gave him above average confidence and that just built on itself. He gives the outward appearance that he is always 100% calm, confident and in control. But he claims he is usually nervous when talking to women, but it doesn’t show for some reason.

    He usually gets drunk before approaching women. He is usually drunk in general. He also did time in prison for a violent crime. He is above average intelligence. Often comes off as a jerk to casual acquaintances, but can be very charming when he wants to be. Very near term time orientation. Has exploited women for money and other things. Surprisingly, does not cheat on a women when he is in a serious relationship.

    When I started looking at PUA material, I felt like was reading descriptions of this guy.

    I have other friends who are very successful with women and never studied any pick up material but I don’t place them in the “natural” category. They seem to be using a different set of tools than this guy. They tend to be good looking, muscular, relatively successful socially and career wise, have lots of friends, do fake “bad boy” things like ride a motorcycle or have lots of tattoos, are very outgoing, everyone likes them, are artistic and creative and dress well and follow fashion trends. The way these guys get girls is somewhat different from the natural. They tend to have started later and they need more time to get a women into bed. Some of them are very nice and just say things like “hi, I’d like to hang out with sometime,” others do the cocky and funny thing.

    The natural seems to draw women to him like magic. Many times, he would leave a bar or party with a hot girl that he barely talked to. I have seen him get gorgeous girls looking like they are ready to fuck him right now in 10 seconds just by saying something ordinary to them, like “where is the food in here?”

    Like


  90. Bush-league shit compared to Miami, LA, or San Francisco.

    This is shocking to me. I find LA to be WAY easier, mostly because hot girls are a dime a dozen there. A NY 6 has the attitude and difficulty of an LA 9.

    Like


  91. -joe
    soft polygamy is what it is.

    one man I know- completely average except that he is a natural and direct games is fucking 5 NYC women- and they arent fucking anyone else!

    Men that have high status jobs- photographer, wine bar owner, building owner, connected to an art gallery in some manner, these men fuck women by the dozens. And all of those women have been taken off of the market!

    That’s the highbrow players- then you have the hipsters, the local band guys, and the drug scene players- all of these men get laid in abundance.

    Last we have the cubicle workers- the rat race maze running men- they get shit.

    This is embarrassing but I will confess:
    Before game I was fucking 4’s! and even that was hard- now I have moved up to 6 and 7’s.

    Lilgrl: one thing you must realize is most AFC men in NYC can’t handle rejection- part of learning game is to accept rejection and to move onto the next target.
    So many men are incapable of playing the numbers game that is astounds and astonishes me.

    The only way the AFC gets laid here is by getting completely shitfaced with a girl at a bar- and lucking out by having her cockblock buddy being hit on by a pua, so that he can try and work his AFC drunkgame magic-Talk about a tough mission.

    On more than one occasion if I see a random strange man going in solo for a group of girls, ill go in as wing to occupy the rest for him. The look of relief and gratitude on his face fills my heart with joy.

    Like


  92. D. Ray Morton

    I have read so much from so many- but i can say these are the names that i Recommend.

    strauss / mystery- of course
    dr. paul
    roissy
    janka

    i don’t think you need anything else.

    Like


  93. ”””Game in BK
    On more than one occasion if I see a random strange man going in solo for a group of girls, ill go in as wing to occupy the rest for him. The look of relief and gratitude on his face fills my heart with joy.”””””

    A guy who understands pals.

    Like


  94. “What determines what qualities they’re attracted to, then?

    Did the change in the 60s change what women were attracted to or did it simply unleash their preexisting sexuality or did it suppress what made men attractive to them? ”

    @bhetti —

    My take on this is that what happened in the 60s/70s was that (1) the consequences of sexuality for females were largely mitigated by means of cheap and reliable contraception and legalized, safe abortion and (2) the driving force of “need” for men to support women was largely taken away. Taken together this meant that women were now “free” to select mates other than on the basis of “need”, and with less regard to the consequences of such matings. I don’t view this as “natural female sexuality”, though, because reliable contraception and legalized, safe abortion are not exactly natural — in the natural state, females are incentivized to be rather careful sexually due to the consequences issue — that has been taken away, now, and so the result can just as easily be viewed as “unnatural”, I think.

    In any case, as a result of the above, more women are simply selecting mates on the basis of sexual excitement, and finding a sexually pleasing mate has become a top priority for women for the first time in a LONG, long time — in fact, it’s likely the first time in human history that women have selected to a large degree on that basis due to the removal of the natural consequences of sexuality for women.

    So the underlying behavior — wanting the best — remains the same, but the criteria on which that is evaluated (in other words, what counts as “best”) has changed due to the changed environment. Women always sought the best mates they could get, but in earlier eras that “best” was typically a combination of status, wealth and stability, whereas today sexual excitement and satisfaction are at the top of the list for women in mate selection. One might argue that this was always the “natural” sexuality for women, but again I am skeptical of that because once you re-admit the natural *consequences* of sexuality for women, you start to see different selection criteria being used again.

    Like


  95. -Guns-
    The sad part is they have friends sitting on the sidelines. Friends that won’t or can’t wing for him.

    So this AFC goes in solo on a suicide mission- and the buds get to laugh at him.

    I know so many men in NYC that have given up on meeting women- its sad.

    Its gotten to the point where I have better luck sarging solo than with any of my AFC friends.

    They have convinced themselves that they are above trying to pick women up. They also believe they will meet someone when they aren’t looking for it!

    That’s why I try to meet with some men from this board.

    Like


  96. Women’s sexual liberation was the worst thing that could’ve happened for most men. Sure, you have a few guys that can now bang in the 100’s, but most are lucky to get one plain jane. There’s also a large minority of guys like myself who can’t get anything, including the fattest ugliest chicks.

    Like


  97. Women in NYC do have very thick bitch shields, far above that of comparable girls in any other city from what I’ve experienced. That means getting laid can be a lot of work, especially at the earliest stages but how much work usually depends on the circles she travels in, how long she’s lived in the city, and her age. Most NYC girls front load their shit testing because the city is so jam packed with people, space is at a premium, and everyone is a stranger that may or may not take advantage of you. There is an element of paranoia in most long time city dwellers. When a girl is new to the city, she hasn’t quite yet been infected with this mentality thus making newcomers easy pickings.

    The longer the girl has lived in the city (and thus older), the higher the likelihood she has been pumped and dumped multiple times by various players or lavished with gifts from socially awkward professionals leveraging too much money game. As an ibanker, I’ve seen the latter used far too often which is bad news as it conditions women to expect this sort of treatment. There are also quite a few trustafarians that don’t work at all but live in the city off their parents dime. These are the most prolific players I know because they have plenty of leisure time to work on pick up. A close friend is one and a damn fine wing. He devotes much of his free time to gaining access, so this guy knows all kinds of people from producers to designers that provides an in to various circles which is key. I know another guy that works at a non-profit and he too cleans up. He’s a disaster as far as his personal life is concerned. In his 30s, broke, no direction, but a good looking guy with solid game. He’s able to work that circle of chicks and get laid.

    The guys that can’t get laid in the city, are guys without sufficient confidence to penetrate that heavy bitch shield in the beginning or don’t have access to the right social circle of women that would smooth things for him.

    Like


  98. I will say about NY, you need a niche to target. The cubicle guy is usually nondescript and inoffensive when he goes out. Button shirt tucked into khakis. May as well be dressed in a Best Buy uniform. If you want hip-hop club girl, whie or black, get a thug identity. If you want hipster girl, be connected with lots of drugs, be a bartender or bouncer or promoter, be in a band, or fill your social circle with people in those groups. If you want a JAP (god knows why), have high level job as investment banker or lawyer or doctor and prepare to get pressured for marriage a week into relationship. You want a white girl that looks like a maxim centerfold or hot reality show contestant or vegas stripper, get the guido look from Hot Chicks With Douchebags dot com. If you want an Asian girl then…well, just be white. That’s usually enough. Pick a scene to target and dress like a stereotype from that scene, learn the lingo, and learn some half decent game. Start indirect, when she gets liquor in her, change gears immediately to super-direct. I know how game works in NY but still so much headache sometimes I still choose to take road trips instead.

    Like


  99. DF – good stuff. I want to add, NY girls do front load their bitch shields and too many guys with shaky confidence give up to quickly. Meanwhile guys with little going for them career and moneywise get laid all the time. Because they realize once you get past the super high bitch shield, NY chicks turn SUPER EASY. By the time they realize just what a mess you are, it’s too late. You’ve banged them several times already. Just plow through the bitch shield, it’s worth it. Even if you have no dough and a chump career, they won’t find out until it’s too late. Besides, most of these NY chicks aren’t worthy of a long term relationship anyway. After you pump and dump them for a while, you should look to a foreign chick or midwest non-hipster transplant for LTR anyway.

    Like


  100. novaseeker: With Arab women I know, it is all about emphasis on wealth in terms of finding a mate while with… Western women, “His personality” or something. Emphasis, you understand. Most women probably have The Impossible List in common, which can best be embodied via Berlusconi but younger/better-looking/not evil.

    The fundamental question in terms of “natural sexuality” is what is she sexually attracted to? Does that change? Or does it change indirectly, e.g. social endorsement making certain men more sexually attractive and the man who gets endorsed changing culturally?

    Scott: The previous model is that you had to pay in one way or another to get sex: prostitution, marriage.

    Now you get it for free with possibilities of more women. Killing marriage in the process, with the help of unfavourable divorce laws.

    And men seem to like this, despite not liking having more of them work for it in different ways.

    The specific subset that’re suffering are those who would’ve been able to get selected on the basis of their providing capabilities, despite zero sex appeal. They wouldn’t have gotten laid much even in marriage. Unless it was sanctioned for them to force the issue. And then again, it would’ve only been with their wife. And most likely vanilla. And the consequences of having kids.

    And prostitution’s still an option and legal in e.g…. Amsterdam. Even here in the UK, actually, but only if it’s not advertised, no kerb crawling or some sort of other legality.

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  101. @ Joe

    NY is one of the harder places to get laid. For every guy you’ve hooked up with, think of the dozens you didn’t.

    Hehe…well, if you’re going to use ME as a subset, then yes, it would be damn near impossible. That said, I have often been with guy friends who have had girls just THROW themselves at them. ‘Tis all. Plus (credit to the boyfriend), you can pretty much find girls EVERYWHERE. In his words: You can run day game for twelve hours straight and not once go into a building.

    You meet SO many more people in New York, just on the street, than you would anywhere else (in the States).

    Like


  102. Besides, most of these NY chicks aren’t worthy of a long term relationship anyway. After you pump and dump them for a while, you should look to a foreign chick or midwest non-hipster transplant for LTR anyway.

    Joe, that is my M.O. and yes, most of these girls aren’t worth any investment. I’ll tell you something that happened to me recently that will reinforce the point. I picked up this one girl, a solid 8. The night we went out she was getting texts at a steady interval. I knew what was up but I played it cool and I noticed she didn’t respond to many of the texts in front of me. We went back to her place and by that time it was late. Then the calls started. One after another. Frustrated she answered one of the calls and it was some guy she’s been stringing along. I could hear his voice and she tells him she’s going to sleep and they’ll talk in the morning. She shuts off the phone and we spend the rest of the night fucking. Next day she checks her phone. The dude left some 20 voicemails and she plays them in front of me while we are in bed. She’s laughing at how pathetic the vms are. Cold. In truth. The dude was drunk dialing her and saying all kinds of stupid shit but still, fucking cold. That’s an NYC girl in a nutshell for you.

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  103. That said, I have often been with guy friends who have had girls just THROW themselves at them. ‘Tis all.

    That’s the soft polygamy the guys are talking about. If you are a guy who is successful with women in NY, you’re REALLY successful and usually have a harem. If you’re a guy who is not successful with women in NY, then you REALLY aren’t successful. Your example makes my point, guys like your friend obviously scream high value to the girls so they are getting a ton of attention. You mistake this to mean that because these girls are giving your male friends lots of attention, women are giving all guys such attention across the board. They’re not. When all these girls are converging to give the same few guys all their attention, that naturally means that a lot of guys as a consequence are getting neglected.

    I estimate that 20% of the guys in NY bang 80% of the girls. A NY guy either has a bunch of girls he’s “seeing” if he’s one of the 20% or no prospects at all if he’s one of the 80%.

    I know because I’m one of those guys who has been successful here. I’ve had girls slip me their numbers while I’m leaving the bar with another one on my arm. I’ve hooked up with a girl, made out with her, got her number, watch her leave, and then have a woman nearby who saw the whole thing come over and open me, bypassing all the single and eager regular guys. It’s a great place for guys with game and status for sheer quantity of choice, but that’s about it. Even then, I still find other places easier and filled with women with better character and more normal standards.

    Plus (credit to the boyfriend), you can pretty much find girls EVERYWHERE. In his words: You can run day game for twelve hours straight and not once go into a building.

    You meet SO many more people in New York, just on the street, than you would anywhere else (in the States).

    Yes you do, which counterintuitively is what makes it so hard for men in NY. Given the natural hypergamy of women, when you have SO many successful people in a city so rich and big, the opportunities for women as the choosers to status seek go out of control. You know how many small town couples move to the big city and the women promptly break up with the boyfriend? Because when you see all the high status guys available, either in terms of game level or income level, girls realize how much more options they have and their standards rise accordingly.

    Think about it, a place like Cleveland may have a lot less people but it also has a lot less male money and competition as well.

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  104. “The fundamental question in terms of “natural sexuality” is what is she sexually attracted to? Does that change? Or does it change indirectly, e.g. social endorsement making certain men more sexually attractive and the man who gets endorsed changing culturally?”

    @Bhetti —

    I don’t think that the raw sexual attraction changes much, no. What’s different is that in some societies women select on that basis, whereas in others they don’t. But I don’t think the actual underlying basis for attraction changes.

    Like


  105. LILGRL

    are your guy friends better than average? Or do you hang out with a bunch of cubicle dwelling, khaki pants wearing men?

    We aren’t talking about men with great looks- great jobs- or great social circles. Also some men are naturals- naturally charming- these men have above average social intelligence.

    we are talking about the overwhelming majority of average or slightly below average men in NYC. AFC Men with good hearts and decent morals- these men can’t get laid.

    Social circle game isn’t easy- not by any stretch.
    It isn’t easy to just go out and build an awesome social circle.

    Like


  106. “Joe

    I will say about NY, you need a niche to target. The cubicle guy is usually nondescript and inoffensive when he goes out. Button shirt tucked into khakis. May as well be dressed in a Best Buy uniform. If you want hip-hop club girl, whie or black, get a thug identity. If you want hipster girl, be connected with lots of drugs, be a bartender or bouncer or promoter, be in a band, or fill your social circle with people in those groups. If you want a JAP (god knows why), have high level job as investment banker or lawyer or doctor and prepare to get pressured for marriage a week into relationship. You want a white girl that looks like a maxim centerfold or hot reality show contestant or vegas stripper, get the guido look from Hot Chicks With Douchebags dot com. If you want an Asian girl then…well, just be white. That’s usually enough. Pick a scene to target and dress like a stereotype from that scene, learn the lingo, and learn some half decent game. Start indirect, when she gets liquor in her, change gears immediately to super-direct. I know how game works in NY but still so much headache sometimes I still choose to take road trips instead.”

    This is what I tell guys all the time. If they want a specific type of girl, then they need to cater their image/game to that particular type of girl instead of being so general about it. This is very similar to how animals survive in the rain forest. Even though there is an overabundance of food, animals survive by catering to a particular niche, instead of being generalists.

    @ NYC people, have any of you tried any of Paul Janka’s stuff (“Getting Laid In NYC” available for free over at http://www.puaratings.com/articles/paul-janka-getting-laid-in-nyc ) stuff? From what he says, he says NYC is like a players dream, which seems to contradict what a lot of you are saying about NYC.

    @early naturals being natural bc of good genetics: that isn’t the only cause. I got laid a lot when I was younger not due to my looks (I was tall, but average looking then), but due to popularity. A popular guy can easily develop into an early natural though other means if he doesn’t have great genetics.

    Like


  107. @joe
    @df
    spot on breakdown with your excellent points.

    Like


  108. ”””””’Game in BK,
    They have convinced themselves that they are above trying to pick women up. They also believe they will meet someone when they aren’t looking for it!

    That’s why I try to meet with some men from this board.”””””””””””

    Yea I have noticed that it helps to have a crew. So yea you guys are having a good time and the woman around want to be a part of that.

    Sarging alone. Just look for the eye. You should be good.

    Like


  109. “Yes you do, which counterintuitively is what makes it so hard for men in NY. Given the natural hypergamy of women, when you have SO many successful people in a city so rich and big, the opportunities for women as the choosers to status seek go out of control. You know how many small town couples move to the big city and the women promptly break up with the boyfriend? Because when you see all the high status guys available, either in terms of game level or income level, girls realize how much more options they have and their standards rise accordingly.”

    @joe —

    Definitely. Places like NYC and London are hypergamy heaven for women. And death for most men.

    Like


  110. are your guy friends better than average? Or do you hang out with a bunch of cubicle dwelling, khaki pants wearing men?

    We aren’t talking about men with great looks- great jobs- or great social circles. Also some men are naturals- naturally charming- these men have above average social intelligence.

    Well, some of them are. Some of them are not. I’ve not seen anyone really have issues with getting sex — note how I’m not saying quality LTR’s, but sex…period — in the NYC.

    Obviously what you and Joe are saying has merit — the sheer number of guys/girls in the NYC might work against you, but really…part of the big, anonymous city is just that — you can keep going, and going, and going.

    But yeah, a particularly awesome (in any brand of awesomeness) guy will stand out and get more than everyone else. Doesn’t mean there isn’t still more than enough to go around. I’d say for the most part, the girls I know get pretty desperate and would be willing to try anyone out, were they approached more often. Although, yes, I come from a particular crowd that is, well, definitely different from what most of you are used to.

    That said — Janka’s PUA stuff? Have you seen him? He’s friggin’ hot. Not saying he’s not good (haven’t read much of him), but I’d automatically assume that what works for him will not work for 95% of the guys out there.

    It’s like talking to my boyfriend (“What? You mean other guys don’t have girls offer up threesomes and more on the regular?”)

    Just kidding 🙂

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  111. assanova and others:

    no one is saying that an afc or an apua can’t get laid in NYC- what i am saying is that an AFC needs to learn game in order to do it.

    i went through most of my sad AFC 20’s before i even discovered mystery method.
    Even after I read it- it took a catalyst in order to get me off my ass, and to game in earnest in real life.

    most afc’s will never read this blog- many that actually do read it- for whatever reason may never begin to implement game into their lives.

    you have to learn about game- but you also have to put it into practice.

    i don’t think every single afc is capable of approaching hundreds or thousands of women just to calibrate.
    you have to want it.

    Like


  112. From what he says, he says NYC is like a players dream, which seems to contradict what a lot of you are saying about NYC.

    Oh no, that’s not a contradiction of our points, that’s EXACTLY our point. It IS a players’ dream, but it’s hell for everyone else. And I don’t even mean just for betas (because almost everywhere is dating hell for betas), I mean for average, run of the mill guys who would be doing decently most places in the world even. Me and my friends were among those guys doing really well, but we all had lots of girls we were juggling. Meanwhile most other guys were starving for crumbs. That’s why I’m correcting LilGrl’s idea that NY is great for ALL guys.

    Also make no mistake, NY isn’t better for players because the women are any easier. They’re not. Any woman you can bang in NY would probably be easier to bang still if she lived elsewhere, even for players. What makes NY great for players is the sheer quantity. It’s hard to get a bad reputation or “game out” an area because there will always be fresh targets to hunt. Even if you stick to the same bar or club you will always have new targets.

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  113. @ Joe, BK

    Okay, okay. I still don’t believe it’s as bad for most guys as you think it is, but I’ll definitely concede that it’s better for players and/or guys with something going for them than not.

    Like, significantly better.

    Again, my experience hasn’t been that it’s just awful for the most people. I’ve wingwoman’d it up for guys (professionally and not) in the NYC and I can see how it might be initially an issue…but ultimately, even the guys I’ve wing’d for will admit that it’s easier than they first thought. I suppose that initial step requires some game, or at least the idea of game, so…fair.

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  114. LILGIRL:

    “you can keep going, and going, and going.”

    That is the key to everything. Most men won’t do this. Many will give up.

    i don’t know if i was broken- but in my mid 20’s every time i would go in for a girl all afc like- and she crushed me or ljbf me- i felt like such a devastated unwanted loser!
    Then they would go fuck the douche bag in the band!

    It’s easy to give up.
    And most men do.

    Like


  115. Understandable. I agree that women tend to get harder/easier depending on where they’re located at. I’ve come to find that those hot girls that are extremely difficult to pick up at bars in urban areas are fairly easy to deal with in the suburbs.

    About Paul Janka, yes, he knows that he is good looking, but even he has admitted that it is nearly impossible for him to pick up women in the bars of NYC; hence, why he does day game. Really, I wouldn’t call it game, because he gets the phone number in under one minute; not really enough time to run game. That being said, I have seen his DVD’s and tested out his stuff, and I have to say that what he does works incredibly well for me. And by the way, most of his “game” isn’t based on the approach. Almost all of his game is based around what happens after you get the phone number.

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  116. LILGIRL:

    Not to give you a big head, but if you wing for me i am getting laid with someone.

    if you wing for a man- other women will infer that said man is not just an average joe.

    just the fact that you are my wing will elevate my status- most men in NYC don’t have you winging for them.

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  117. ”””””””’Game in BK
    LILGIRL:

    “you can keep going, and going, and going.”

    That is the key to everything. Most men won’t do this. Many will give up.

    i don’t know if i was broken- but in my mid 20’s every time i would go in for a girl all afc like- and she crushed me or ljbf me- i felt like such a devastated unwanted loser!
    Then they would go fuck the douche bag in the band!

    It’s easy to give up.
    And most men do.””””””””””””””””””

    Yea not giving up is what makes you eventually successful in almost anything you do. Being too stupid to know your beat.

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  118. ”””’Game in BK
    LILGIRL:

    Not to give you a big head, but if you wing for me i am getting laid with someone.

    if you wing for a man- other women will infer that said man is not just an average joe.

    just the fact that you are my wing will elevate my status- most men in NYC don’t have you winging for them.”””””””’

    Idea hire a wing he he he

    Like


  119. you can keep going, and going, and going.

    I know guys without good game who do just that, but the sheer volume, low return on investment strategy is really damaging to a guy’s self-esteem over time. First off, it’s really inefficient. A guy has to put in so much work and time just to get 1 result. Second, it leads to dropping standards. Third, it really builds neediness. I’m convinced most of the neediness women complain about in dudes comes from them following this high investment, low return strategy. It conditions them to think that whenever they find a woman who is interested, they need to hold on for dear life because they are aware of how many tries they had to do between positive responses. Using primarily the numbers game does hell to a guy’s inner game and mindset. Numbers game is great if you do it like Janka though, which is high investment, high return.

    It’s easy for women to say “you can just keep going and going” because they’ve never had to keep going and going to get positive responses from the opposite sex.

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  120. -joe-
    Without game hitting on 200 women to get one lay would be a brutal proposition for almost any man.

    Before i read about game- i would never kino, never neg, never qualify, never tease. i was a grown man and i had no idea i needed to do any of these things.

    All i would do is go in like a perfectly neutered eunuch.
    No one told me what I was doing was wrong- most women felt I could become a great “friend” to them, but they would never fuck me.

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  121. My theory in a nutshell:

    If an average man learns and uses game- he is no longer average.
    The opposite sex will notice something different about this man.

    Like


  122. @ Gunslingergregi

    Yea not giving up is what makes you eventually successful in almost anything you do. Being too stupid to know your beat.

    Heh. 🙂

    Like


  123. Yea I will probably have to dumb myself down to make it lol

    My dad always said the guys he saw that made it were to stupid to know they were beat. Like failure did not deter them. People telling them it was impossible did not deter them. Things like thinking about why it could not be done did not deter them.

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  124. I want it to be because I am so smart though lol

    Like


  125. Like most women, lil girl has no appreciation for all the work it takes for a guy to get laid. “It’s so easy. Just ask a girl out for coffee. Teehee.” There’s a reason the pua industry even exists in the first place.

    Like


  126. The 40% only reproducing figure for men is likely through Agricultural periods. From about 75-50K years ago to around 11K years ago, people were hunter-gatherers. Hierarchies were relatively flat, no patronage, even the mightiest hunter would come up empty now and then, and someone who stole another’s mate could get a spear up his backside and the offended man’s kin would walk out, leading to vulnerability from competing tribes/clans.

    It’s only in Agricultural societies that huge patronage networks have their effects, lots of paid off royal bodyguards, armies, etc. to allow monopolization of nearly all women. Ghenghis Khan probably had most women in Mongolia and around it as his sex slaves to produce 8% of the direct male descendants 800 years later. This is a high-risk and high payoff evolutionary path. Since new dynasties kill all the old ones. Sultans would routinely kill all their relatives and every woman in the harem. Winner take all like lions means offspring of the old king lose by being killed. In the Illyiad, Hector’s infant son is thrown from the walls by the Greeks and his brains dashed out.

    Women are however hard-wired for this type of stuff, it’s why women are suckers for aristocracy, nobility, hierarchy, bowing and scraping, which are offensive beyond belief to Western men. Who prefer flat social equality.

    NYC probably sucks, because women are free to play out their princess fantasies with bad boys, masters of of the Universe, and thugs. My own beef is that the arty girl has been replaced with the drug addled hipster. Since I’m not a drug dealer and abhor them, they’re useless to me and me to them. Maxim girls are brain dead and stupid, useless after sex, really the quality of most women is lacking in the extreme.

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  127. @ Scott

    “It’s so easy. Just ask a girl out for coffee. Teehee.”

    That’s exactly what I said. Exactly.

    Like


  128. “NYC probably sucks, because women are free to play out their princess fantasies with bad boys, masters of of the Universe, and thugs. My own beef is that the arty girl has been replaced with the drug addled hipster. Since I’m not a drug dealer and abhor them, they’re useless to me and me to them. Maxim girls are brain dead and stupid, useless after sex, really the quality of most women is lacking in the extreme.”

    It’s not just a NYC thing. The same thing happens where I’m from (Columbus, Ohio). I was just out last night and my friend asked about all of the hot girls he saw surrounding one guy. Why were they with him? I know him and I know that he is a coke dealer and all of those Maxim girls stick to those guys like glue, no matter what they look like. My girl’s sister is a stripper and she’s with a guy because he feeds her coke and pills.

    That being said, you don’t necessarily have to be a thug and break the law to get hot women. I have the image of a thug, get those women, and I don’t deal drugs, nor do I break the law in any way. However, I do admit that I fit the description of a bad boy asshole, so you’ve got me there.

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  129. Drug game the overlooked game the pretty lie about why chicks are with certain types and not the others. Kind of hard to be straight and narrow and get drug chicks. Could be luck though because you don’t get a wanna be ho because she just wants snow.

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  130. on July 25, 2009 at 8:08 pm Tupac Chopra

    Bhetti and LILGRL both need to pimp-slapped a bit.

    Some of the bending-over-backwards crowd of the Deida variety have made it all too easy for women to indulge in their inner beeyotch in the name of “feminine perogative”.

    Hair-trigger shrike? Hey, it’s just one’s “inner Kali”

    F that. Iceberg Slim would teach ’em what’s what/

    Like


  131. on July 25, 2009 at 8:10 pm Tupac Chopra

    Assanova:

    This is what I tell guys all the time. If they want a specific type of girl, then they need to cater their image/game to that particular type of girl instead of being so general about it

    So you are saying Game alone isn’t enough. They need to conform to a subculture to be in the running.

    Sell-out…?

    Like


  132. So you are saying Game alone isn’t enough. They need to conform to a subculture to be in the running.

    He’s not saying game is not enough. Adopting a clearly conveyed identity is actually a part of game at least according to Mystery. He calls it your “avatar.”

    Like


  133. @Tupac Chopra

    What I am saying is that a guy can make things much easier for himself by defining who he is and going after like-minded/cultured women. He doesn’t have to “sell-out”, but he definitely should decide who he is and what type of woman he wants. He doesn’t have to do this, but he’d be making things easier on himself by doing so.

    Like


  134. on July 25, 2009 at 8:25 pm Tupac Chopra

    He’s not saying game is not enough. Adopting a clearly conveyed identity is actually a part of game at least according to Mystery.

    Yes, but apparently if that identity is not part of a common social niche (goth, hipster, prep, jock, G) he’s dead in the water.

    What I am saying is that a guy can make things much easier for himself by defining who he is and going after like-minded/cultured women. He doesn’t have to “sell-out”, but he definitely should decide who he is and what type of woman he wants. He doesn’t have to do this, but he’d be making things easier on himself by doing so.

    Many cultural norms are arbitrary and fleeting. Women apparenty gravitate to these “avatars.” Even to the exclusion of well-run Game.

    Are you saying men need to become de facto cultural “fashion hounds” to become relevant in the meat market?

    This seems a bit contradictory to Game theory.

    Like


  135. Yes, but apparently if that identity is not part of a common social niche (goth, hipster, prep, jock, G) he’s dead in the water.

    Those were just examples. Choose whatever example you want. The point is, if there is a specific type of girl you like, it’s better to dress in a way to appeal to that type of girl. If you look in the clip of Mystery I provided, he specifically says to choose an identity that represents who you are and what you’re interested in. It doesn’t have to contradict your inner being, it just has to convey it easily, like a visual shorthand.

    Are you saying men need to become de facto cultural “fashion hounds” to become relevant in the meat market?

    This seems a bit contradictory to Game theory.

    It’s not contradictory to game theory at all. Mystery and others talk about peacocking to represent your avatar all the time. Case in point, the video I just included. If something is a major fundamental tenet of Mystery, then it official is a part of Game Theory not something that contradicts it. Your look is part of your game. And everyone’s clothes change with the time, no matter what your personal style. I doubt anyone from ANY demographic is still dressing today in the 2000s exactly like they were dressing in the 1990s.

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  136. I’m not saying that if a guy doesn’t fit a specific cultural norm that he won’t get any woman. A guy with great game can pull in many different cultural environments. However, what I am saying, is that by catering to a specific cultural market, he can pull women while doing less work.

    For instance, while I was out last night, a girl approached me and started talking to me out of nowhere. I didn’t have to run any kind of game. I later saw this girl at another bar, and looking at the guys she was talking to, they were very similar to how I dress.

    A lot of people (both men and women) talk about “types” of people that they’re instantly attracted to, whether it’s blonde women, jocks, thugs etc. And regardless of if you love it or hate it, the fact is still there. Catering to a specific market gives you a leg up with those types of people.

    Like


  137. What Assanova and Joe say is true.

    http://www.rooshv.com/club-rain-the-band-theory

    Even Roosh has proven it.

    Like


  138. on July 25, 2009 at 8:46 pm Tupac Chopra

    Then the Community should address the fact that it’s not just your behaviors or alphatude that count, but your particular lifestyle and “role” that can make or break you.

    Women are fickle superficial creatures. I agree.

    As much as I’ve overcome my origins in ascending to alphatude, I still balk somewhat at donning a transitory fashionable role in attracting women.

    But you are probably right.

    Like


  139. Yea I mean I am having to adjust to the fact that I want models. So yea I want to get loot then buy the bitches.

    Like


  140. As much as I’ve overcome my origins in ascending to alphatude

    Do say more. Inquiring minds etc.

    Like


  141. LILGRL:

    Again, my experience hasn’t been that it’s just awful for the most people. I’ve wingwoman’d it up for guys (professionally and not) in the NYC and I can see how it might be initially an issue…

    Did you work for wingwomen.com by any chance? Professional wingwomen are available in New York and Las Vegas at least. Great concept. I suppose where lacking that service it would be worth it to hire an escort as a wingwoman, since the rewards are potentially so much greater than a prostitute. I have even fantasized about taking an escort to a swingers club, if I could afford it.

    I felt the amazing power of a wingwoman once when I befriended a 10 (not even thinking about hitting on her because she was so out of my league) and she introduced me to some girls in a bar. They were very interested and one instantly made out with me and had me come home to her the next day, by which time she realized I am actually a loser so no fuck-close, but it could have worked if I had a little game or hung out with beautiful girls more often.

    Like


  142. Just to remind everyone of why Tupac Chopra is awesome and (inspired this from the DA Church):

    OK, I’ve had enough.

    David, I understand you are like the horse you can bring to water but can’t make drink.

    I know that you, like TokyoBetaGrist, have a bizarre hangup about not “kneeling before Zod” or whatever bullshit rationalization you use to keep yourself from improving. You are pathetic.

    But I respect your self-honesty, as twisted as it is. So consider this my last act of charity towards you. I hereby lay out the David Alexander Roadmap for Traversing Chump to Champ Without Making You Piss Yourself.

    We will begin from the inside out.

    Get a handle on your psychology and your pessimistic self-talk. Ask yourself what are the family dynamics that led you to be as pussyfied as you are. How did your parent’s behavior toward you differ from what normal people experienced? Judiciously pick inspirational heroes (literary or otherwise)who aren’t necessarily ladies men, but just average people who are honorable in all other respects…people who overcame great odds. I recommend Nietzsche, but Marty will do. Your psychological explorations will run deep and may last a long time.

    If you feel you have biochemical imbalances, take supplements to augment your mood. There are many nootropics out there that can enhance brain function and mood.

    Casually study Game. From reading this blog, you know who to study. At this point, you don’t need to apply, but just to *learn*. The main thing to focus on is female psychology. Before you are ready to start making moves, you need to understand your “opponent” and the rules of the game.

    In the meantime, start working out. There is a wealth of information on the web, so I won’t go into detail. The main thing is that you lift *heavy*. Be sure to get plenty of rest, since sleep/ recuperation is just as important as the work you put in the gym. Eat. A LOT. Be sure to get most of your calories from red meat and eggs. One day, you may choose to go to an endocrinologist and go on Testosterone Replacement Therapy. You obviously need it. We can only hope you have the balls to do that much for yourself.

    Don’t neglect cardio. Go jogging or ride a bike. Aerobic exertion has incredible effects on the body and mind. Plus, this will later help you in the sack when you need to fuck all night long. Nothing worse than getting winded while trying to fuck your girl standing up.

    Work on your posture and movement. A lifetime of betatude has surely ossified in your character. I recommend Alexander and Feldenkrais for this. Study Roissy’s Great Scenes Of Game to see how naturals carry themselves. Work on integrating these lessons into your daily life. They must become second nature to you.

    Take voice lessons. I bet you talk like a pipsqueak. Singing lessons are great for this as they teach you how to properly operate your vocal apperatus. Learn to speak from the diaphragm and with conviction.

    Learn how to dress yourself properly. I won’t say you need to peacock (that’s for the G’s), but you need to carry yourself with style. Much of this comes down to personal circumstance and style, but decide on a “persona” and stick with it. Dockers and blue polos aint gonna cut it. You don’t want to stick out necessarily, but you don’t want to disappear into the crowd.

    Pimp your ride if you have one. If you don’t, work on that first. Keep it clean and blinged out at all times.

    Seriously think about making an abrubt career change. You don’t have to do something you hate, but you should reconsider what it is you think you “love.” Seriously consider anything that involves you managing other people and learning to lead others.

    Try out new hobbies. Railfanning isn’t *that* bad. It’s better than holing up in your masturbatorium. But anything that gets you out of the house and interacting with other people is ideal. Even if it is just some faggy SWPL book club.

    Take up a physical sport. I recommend MMA. That’s probably a little hardcore for you, so maybe Judo would be better. If not, just do SOMETHING. Even if it’s raquetball. Basically you want something that awakens your competitive spirit and contains some measure of physical exertion. Shuffleboard does not count.

    GET YOUR OWN PLACE. Living with Mommy = -100 points. Get your own place, even if it’s a single bedroom apartment. When you get an apartment, keep it stylin’. Cool art on the walls, fixtures, etc. Make sure you have all the amenities to make a girl’s experience there pleasant and classy (adjusted for your SES of course).

    Learn to speak to groups. Join Toastmasters. You could even speak about railfanning. The idea is to get you “performing”, ie., learning to express your interests and passions with style. When you start feeling brave, I recommend taking an acting class. You will learn the nuances of emotoinal expression.

    All this time, you should be going out to clubs and bars that cater to the women you desire. At this point, you don’t need to be doing anything. Just go and watch. Learn the rules of the place. Get friendly with the staff. Become a “regular.”

    Take a dancing class. Learn how it feels to hold a woman in your arms, and how to move her around at your will. Learn what it means to “lead” a woman in the most physical sense.

    One you have most of these in place, it is time to start socializing. Start experimenting with casual conversations with people on the street, on the bus, at the bars you frequent. Learn how to hold a convo, even if it isn’t angling toward sex. If you can’t be good, interesting platonic company for more than 5 minutes, then you need to work on that. Try and learn about the people you talk to. Pay attention to the cues they respond to dealing with decisions of trust and openess.

    Start throwing parties at your place. Learn to be a host, a leader. Learn how to introduce people to each other. Keep tabs on all your acquaintances. Once you start making connections, start suggesting outings involving your other interests (your new hobbies and sports, remember?).

    There may be girls involved at various points along this program. You don’t have to game them at this point. But don’t be an emotional tampon either. You don’t want to be the female boyfriend. Just take the aloof leader role and be courteous. Keep your edge and the power position.

    At this point you will hopefully be acquainted, if only by 6 degrees of seperation, with some potential prospects. Hopefully by this point you will have grown a pair and are ready to do something about it. You may need to lower your standards a little bit in the beginning. That’s fine. You just need to get your sea legs. Don’t try to be Mr. Cold Approach Same Night Lay. Just think about manuevering things back to your crib and escalating there. If it doesn’ work out, no fuss no muss, call up one of the other birds.

    I suspect you know how to have sex, so if it happens, you don’t need any advice from me. Your main thing is learning how to be engaging from the moment of meet to the point of fucking. This will come in time. The more birds you tear through, the more this will come to be second nature. But you need to start somewhere. Hopefully this post has made that process somewhat accessible to you.

    Good luck punk.

    Hell yes, let’s hear the Tupac Chopra story. From AFC to Alpha (albeit Tragically in Love with Clio).

    Like


  143. Bhetti, lest Tupac’s head swells too much, I’ll add that he’s a comic genius.

    His Youtube link to “Matters of the Heart” at Clio’s and subsequent cri d’coeur were brilliant.

    Like


  144. Women are fickle superficial creatures. I agree.

    So are we. We trade in a perfectly good car in working condition to buy a more expensive one the moment we can afford to just to impress our friends. We’ll hate an all-star’s guts with a passion when he plays for the other team but immediately love him the moment he plays for “our” team. Most of us won’t date a fattie or a homely chick no matter how great her personality is.

    I love exposing pretty lies about women but I’m not about to start creating pretty lies about men to go along with them! 😉

    Like


  145. BK, something about social game/proofing…

    If a guy is truly mundane, it is better for him to play the lone wolf than to try to get into a group of relative rebels or upper crust corrupt types.

    Depending what they’re into, they might view him as boring or untrustworthy. Guys who are connected don’t hang out with guys who aren’t. Guys who are moderately shady keep non shady friends at a safe distance.

    Nobody really gets to a certain level of social status without some degree of corruption. That’s just how the world works. There’s a glass ceiling for good boys.

    Like


  146. There’s a glass ceiling for good boys.

    “you must not try to be too pure.”
    – Sinnead O’Connor

    Like


  147. I am using that line nicole lol

    Like


  148. What PA is referencing:
    http://aliasclio.wordpress.com/2009/07/15/for-a-good-time-call/#comment-765

    I think we need to hound Tupac for his lifestory, Clio-stalking style. Karma and all that.

    Tupaaaaaaaaac.

    Like


  149. I second (er, third) that – Tupac is awesome. Even a comically fictionalized version would be appreciated.

    Clio, the alleged all-seeing muse of history, is quite blind in this instance …

    Like


  150. A silent film from 1937 depicts a man as a tamed bear, petted and fed by many women.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/26/arts/design/26strau.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=all

    Like


  151. on July 26, 2009 at 12:44 am Willard Libby

    Assanova

    I’m not saying that if a guy doesn’t fit a specific cultural norm that he won’t get any woman. A guy with great game can pull in many different cultural environments. However, what I am saying, is that by catering to a specific cultural market, he can pull women while doing less work.

    Adam Carolla Breaks Down the ‘Hot Chicks with Douchebags’ Phenomenon

    He also discusses why men need to become a “type” and not be generic.

    Like


  152. on July 26, 2009 at 12:53 am Willard Libby

    Mandy! XD

    What Assanova and Joe say is true.

    http://www.rooshv.com/club-rain-the-band-theory

    Even Roosh has proven it.

    Really?………….

    “The reason non-white guys fail with white girls, according to my theory, is because they try to act white instead of looking like they are in a band. ……. Just let your hygiene and physical appearance go and white girls will be all over you in a very short amount of time.”

    The last thing this hairy dork needs to do is not bathe.

    Like


  153. Assanova — good insight. I just can’t play the bad boy asshole, and don’t really want to. At best I can if sufficiently motivated and in the mood, play aloof charmer, a few words here and there, not much caring a shrug of the shoulders and off I go somewhere else. When it has worked, it’s worked quite well, but the ability of that to work has declined as my favorite kind of girl, the nice arty girl with interests has been replaced in the ecosystem with the drugged out hipster, the tatted out goth girl, and bitchy uber-professional.

    LA used to be paradise because there used to be nice, sweet arty girls who were not hard and bitchy. Now it’s like a desert for that type of girl. Plenty of the Maxim kind though.

    Like


  154. on July 26, 2009 at 3:19 am Tupac Chopra

    some black guy:

    So are we. We trade in a perfectly good car in working condition to buy a more expensive one the moment we can afford to just to impress our friends.

    Speak for yourself.

    I trade in performance and classic beauty exclusively.

    Most of us won’t date a fattie or a homely chick no matter how great her personality is.

    I love exposing pretty lies about women but I’m not about to start creating pretty lies about men to go along with them!

    Noted, but what do you say about women who judge a man, not on his physique, nor intelligence, nor empathy or sensitivity, or knowledge, or courage, or resourcefulness, or nobility, but simply upon his inculsion within a social niche which is signified by particular clothing choices and “correct” socio-political attitudinal expressions? Chucks, vintage wear, facial hair and accomodating social platitudes? Particularly when the accelerating tendency is toward SWPL-ness?

    Fight or flight? What sayest thou, negroidian?

    Like


  155. on July 26, 2009 at 3:29 am Tupac Chopra

    Libby:

    He also discusses why men need to become a “type” and not be generic.

    Your link refers to such activity as “bullshit.”

    But I defer to your point.

    Like


  156. on July 26, 2009 at 3:31 am Tupac Chopra

    Reluctantly.

    Like


  157. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/26/fashion/weddings/26VOWS.html?ref=weddings

    Anyone want to explain that one? Looks like an alpha that went totally beta for no obviously evident reason.

    Like


  158. I love exposing pretty lies about women but I’m not about to start creating pretty lies about men to go along with them!

    this was certainly one of the mostn stupid comments I´ve read in this site

    Like


  159. He also discusses why men need to become a “type” and not be generic.

    some guys like techno, some others -like me- prefer black music and hip hop. are we different ” types”???

    why exactly should play a specific role which would only diminish the number of women available to you?

    Like


  160. on July 26, 2009 at 11:31 am Tupac Chopra

    To all my fans:

    Thankee Sai.

    We are ka-tet

    (That was for you Gunny)

    Like


  161. Tupac,

    were you around the philly harcore scene circa 1984-87?

    Like


  162. uh, hardcore

    Like


  163. gig- because by trying to cater to all, you cater to none. I’m not saying that you can’t cross boundaries, but each type of woman preselects a certain type of man. I personally have multiple identities, but the identity that I dress up as depends on where I am going. When I’m at a ritzy bar, Ill wear expensive dress shoes and a nice sportscoat. However, when I’m around younger crowds, I dress up like a thug.

    Like


  164. on July 26, 2009 at 12:55 pm ironrailsironweights

    A “natural” has an appreciation for the finer things in life. Like a GNP.

    Peter

    Like


  165. ””””””’Tupac Chopra
    To all my fans:

    Thankee Sai.

    We are ka-tet

    (That was for you Gunny)””””””””””

    I think you may be right. Now if we could just get to point where the ka-tet is all free. Can then work on changing the world.

    Like


  166. [email protected]
    “Noted, but what do you say about women who judge a man, not on his physique, nor intelligence, nor empathy or sensitivity, or knowledge, or courage, or resourcefulness, or nobility, but simply upon his inculsion within a social niche which is signified by particular clothing choices and “correct” socio-political attitudinal expressions? “

    Me, personally, I say

    “Next”

    Because, well, I hate social niches.

    That said, I do think that some pre-selection goes on in a girl’s mind in dating people from different scenes, and often people will wear slightly different social masks (persona after all literally means “mask”) when in different crowds. This is a sort of code switching and can sometimes be almost unconscious.

    That said, I’m not about to alter how I present myself to the world significantly simply for poon. It makes it easier to date some girls from some scenes, and harder to date others from other scenes. I couldn’t care less either way and I really mostly dress for myself.

    One thing I noticed is that simply being my own type puts me so far outside of other types that it makes me stand out everywhere as an outsider .

    My personal type evolved as, well, my *personal* type of style. I think that every man has his own personal sense of style, formal or casual. And he grows into it with time.
    I don’t do it for attention, I dress the way I want. My style is sober, dignified, old fashioned, but with a bit of edge.

    I’m a fucking dandy and like to dress myself up.
    I have my standard look and style, and it makes me a bit weird wherever I go. But the one thing everyone does seem to do is complement me. Like they don’t know exactly how to place me, because I don’t fit into their preconceived notions..

    Around Hip Hop crowds I seem different because I’m a bit preppy (suit or sport coat, Alan Edmund shoes or German Jackboots, flat front dress trousers or really, really, dark indigo jeans. Un-rinsed. I wear my jeans tight). But my pocket chain and Jackbooks stand out as different and a bit edgy.

    Around industrial “rivetheads” or punks or goths or hardcore kids I stand out almost preppy. But still stylish. Gothy girls seem to dig my style.

    Around preppy or yuppie types I dress better than they do anyway so I stand out more. But my pocket chain and jackboots makes it a bit edgier I usually wear deep blues or black, though occassionally will go for the mostly all-in- white stchick (white jacket, trousers, black shirt)

    I look best in black, or dark blue. Those are my two favorite colors.

    I understand the whole social niche thing but I have a philosophical aversion to bending over to fit in. People who like me seem to gravitate my way anyway, so why bother.

    Back to productive tasks.

    Like


  167. I don’t understand why switching up identities is such a hard thing to accept for some people. When you go to an interview or an office job and put on a suit, isn’t that what you do? You wouldn’t put the same clothes you wear to go clubbing to go meet a prospective employer or a boss, right? Is putting on the suit or dress slacks selling out or being in a niche or being conformist? Probably. But I’m trying to get paid. With paychecks during the week and with ass during the evenings. So I play the game.

    Like


  168. this was certainly one of the mostn stupid comments I´ve read in this site

    No it’s not. Pretending men aren’t often as superficial as women is creating a pretty lie about men. If you can’t get that, maybe the problem is your comprehension.

    Like


  169. @kemal, sounds like punk to me. I know punk guys that dress exactly as you do. Everyone likes to believe that he is an individual. A different kind of “punk” guy (higher class perhaps), but still punk nontheless. I may wear expensive shoes, and my pants may not be as baggy as other thugs, but I still am categorized as such. Regardless of if you want to label yourself or not, visually, you are still a member of a culture.

    Like


  170. More NYT crap :

    Women are Better Managers :

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/26/business/26corner.html?em

    So why do only 3 out of the Fortune 500 have women CEOs? Sexism? So all the Board of Directors and Shareholders are so sexist as to forego the billions of dollars of profit that would come from better managment? Why aren’t women entrepreneurs more successful than men? Sexism? Yeah, right.

    Like


  171. Prelude to the sexbot revolution…

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/26/magazine/26FOB-2DLove-t.html

    Is anyone here familiar enough with Japanese culture to give a detailed explanation of why there are such a disproportionate number of dregs/omegas there? In the western world we have birth control, feminism, and the 60s as an explanation for the current dating market…assuming these specific developments didn’t carry over THAT forcefully in Japan (save birth control), what analogous cultural developments happened over there that led to such bizarre lifestyles becoming so commonplace?

    Like


  172. Tood–

    I want more sexism not less.

    While in theory it might be great if all the races/ethnicities performed equally well in all areas of work, athletics and entertainment, it wouldn’t be great if women had as high status or high income jobs as men.

    It would be terrible for family formation and stability. It would be really terrible for even more men. It would be a net minus for all people.

    Women are happy in roles other than primary provider with the higher status job. Few men are. They especially aren’t married as opposed to sport f*cking.

    Like


  173. http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/07/the-neg-contd.html#more

    interesting post on “the neg” at The Atlantic. Roissy, a response? seems as if the unwashed masses doubt the power of the technique.

    Like


  174. And now more news from Japan, the natural homeland of “Natural”‘s exact opposites. Growing numbers of men are developing relationships with life-size pillowcase covers featuring pictures of their favorite female comic book characters:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/26/magazine/26FOB-2DLove-t.html?ref=magazine

    “Nisan is part of a thriving subculture of men and women in Japan who indulge in real relationships with imaginary characters. These 2-D lovers, as they are called, are a subset of otaku culture— the obsessive fandom that has surrounded anime, manga and video games in Japan in the last decade. … Like most otaku, the majority of 2-D lovers go to work, pay rent, hang out with friends (some are even married). Unlike most otaku, though, they have real romantic feelings for their toys.”

    Like


  175. HAIL THE CHAUVINISTS!

    HAIL THE CHAUVINISTS!

    HAIL THE CHAUVINISTS!

    HAIL THE CHAUVINISTS!

    HAIL THE CHAUVINISTS!

    HAIL THE CHAUVINISTS!

    HAIL THE CHAUVINISTS!

    I WILL ENJOY WATCHING YOUR PUNY, LITTLE SHRIVELED DICK ROT!

    Like


  176. “chauvinist”? is it 1974?

    Like


  177. The Onion has been quite entertaining lately.

    “I Am Equal To Any Man,” Says Stern Woman Who Likely Does Not Menstruate

    http://www.theonion.com/content/from_print/i_am_equal_to_any_man_says?utm_source=newsinphotos_china

    Like


  178. Going back to Tupac Chopra… we already know of his unrequited love for Clio (who recently must have dyed her hair black; probably to hide from Tupac’s unwanted affections); we know of his proclivities for stalking, and the fact that he is a suicidal-depressive schizophrenic who talks with himself.

    But what none of us knew was that he is also a poet.

    What I mean is: I was just up in Toronto, and by the craziest of coincidence, I was in a restaurant where Clio also happened to be, dining with her gentleman companion.

    And in a dark booth, unseen by Clio or her friend, sat Tupac, scribbling furiously. He then ran out the door. I approached his abandoned table, and found this note:

    Filling her compact & delicious body
    with chicken paprika, she glanced at me
    twice.

    Fainting with interest, I hungered back
    and only the fact that her husband & four other people
    kept me from springing on her
    or falling at her little feet and crying
    “You are the hottest one for years of night
    Henry’s dazed eyes
    have enjoyed, Brilliance.” I advanced upon
    (despairing) my spumoni. — Sir Bones: is stuffed,
    de world, wif feeding girls. —

    Black hair, complexion Latin, jewelled eyes
    downcast . . . The slob beside her feasts . . . What wonders is
    she sitting on, over there?

    The restaurant buzzes. She might as well be on Mars.
    Where did it all go wrong? There ought to be a law against Henry.

    –Mr. Bones: there is.

    Like


  179. I’ve always liked the poetry of John Berryman.

    But I have not visited Toronto since May. You must have seen some other muse and her companion.

    I am fond of chicken paprika, though. I’ve even been known to make it for supper.

    Clio

    p.s. –Henry: Mr Bones, you terrifies me.

    (Me and Mr Bones, we’ve got a thing goin’ on…)

    Like


  180. Whoa Nelly! That article about comic-book love in Japan that I linked to just above is MUCH creepier than I thought! I had only read the first few paragraphs when I made the post. Dudes you have to read this.

    Like


  181. Andrew Sullivan’s a fag. What’s more, he’s not playing with a full deck. Nothing he says is of any importance whatsoever.

    Like


  182. Sort of on-topic, I’ve notice that Khakis and particularly Dockers are death for any kind of attraction for women. I see ads even that mock them.

    My take on LA (don’t know what works best elsewhere) is that depending on the venue, casual or dressy, you want either a dress shirt, sport coat and jeans with nice dressy shoes, or a suit, nicely shined shoes, tie optional. They should fit well, not too roomy. But still move.

    Casual: Galleries, art museums, and so on. Dark jeans work the best. Also movies, casual dinner, etc. Very good with younger guys, makes you look like a mover and shaker (and it’s the general dress of entertainment people here).

    Formal: Skybar, most “in” clubs, fancy restaurants, anything Downtown, and so on.

    Just AVOID KHAKIS AND DOCKERS. At all costs. It screams cube dweller.

    Like


  183. Joe, you make a solid point, but you may want to cut particular guys some slack. Some just aren’t going to understand because they can’t really get inside the heads of the idiotic brand of cads.

    In text, some of the defenses may look the same, but they’re not coming from the same place because they’re not really in the same social circles or dating the same girls as the guys who try to play but get assraped in the end. For the true, there is a clear division between what they may want in a hoe, and what they would want in a long term partner. So when they’re talking about what’s better for them, they’re talking about what’s most useful at the moment they want to get laid.

    For a non romantic sexual encounter, superficial judgements are all you need. You don’t need to care if she’d drown your babies because you’re not going to have babies with her.

    …and here we have the huge difference between non moronic male and female superficiality. Only a complete moron of a guy, or at least one who is a total tool, would translate a woman having big boobs into her being nurturing. Plenty of women however, translate a guy being merely aggressive into being dominant. Happens all the time with women who aren’t lacking in actual intelligence.

    Men don’t generally invest much time or emotion into women they feel are beneath them or not fit for long term relationships. They won’t even do it if the woman is good enough but the guy himself isn’t ready. Women, on the other hand, make this mistake all the time. Based on superficial judgements, they’ll decide the guy is the love of their life.

    I don’t know if it is wrong per se, but it is indeed annoying, and even harmful in some cases.

    A guy who doesn’t intend to do any harm can and should take advantage of this. For certain, the guys who do mean harm are. Why defer to them when you’re the more fit candidate?

    Like


  184. Whiskey,
    Please speak for yourself. I got a shitload of khakis: Dockers, Old Navy, Banana Republic, Gap, Columbia, Kenneth Cole, etc, et al. Yo could say I’m something of a collector of khakis in fact. And I’ve NEVER had any problem pulling honies in em-indeed, if anything, its the exact reverse, Women like it.

    A nice fitting pair of khaki slacks, well shined and maintained shoes, pressed shirt and fresh cut ‘n’ shave, gets em err time, my friend.

    Works for me.

    O

    Like


  185. My take on Khakhis: if you wear them, wear ones that fit well and aren’t cheap-looking.

    And pleated front is a big non-no.

    Like


  186. Agreed PA, pleated front khakis ain’t cool. They gotta have clean lines, which means you gotta be in shape to wear em.

    LOL, in fact just the other night a Woman made a pass at me while I’m out and about w/Brown Sugah. Had on the brown Old Navy khaki slacks, black button down shirt, black square front shoes, Marine-shined up.

    What can I say.

    O

    Like


  187. GAYDAR GAYDAR.

    The boys are talking about fashion.

    Like


  188. @PA
    lol… agreed a/b the khakis. wish more guys knew this.

    @doug
    more sexism… you’re a brave one to admit this need. i have to (reluctantly) agree… but only in measured doses. a world where men can be true leaders is an awesome one.

    Like


  189. lol mandy

    Like


  190. GQ has their list of the most pussy-whipped men:

    http://men.style.com/gq/features/landing?id=content_6697

    But they also have their list of great moments in manhood:

    http://men.style.com/theupgrader/living/features/milestones-in-manhood

    Like


  191. Mandy,
    “Gaydar, the Men are talking about fashion”? Peshaw-real Men look good. At least where I come from they do. 😉

    O

    Like


  192. on July 27, 2009 at 12:08 pm An Experienced Father

    Roissy,

    Media reports over the week end have Chris Brown and Rhianna getting back together.

    Maybe Brown is a natura rather than a lesser alpha?

    Like


  193. For anyone who’s interested, article on hip-hop and multiculturalism:

    How Hip-Hop Helps Today’s Multiculturalism

    Like


  194. OneSTDV,
    Please give a short list of the number of Hip Hop albums you’ve actually listened to? Just wanna establish a baseline for the veracity of your statements before we go further on your Hip Hop thoughts, given your relative lack of understanding in these matters based on previous conversations we’ve had.

    Thank you.

    O

    Like


  195. Hey HERBIE, the way to combat your problem is to be aggressive and kinky.

    Like


  196. on July 27, 2009 at 2:07 pm From the slacker generation

    To better ill-equip its posterity for the bleak state of affairs it is leaving in its reckless wake, the Boomer generation has evidently added the evil of optimism to its legacy:

    In Recession, Optimistic College Graduates Turn Down Jobs

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/25/us/25students.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss

    Like


  197. @Obsidian:

    Well.

    I guess you can get away with it.

    Like


  198. on July 27, 2009 at 2:24 pm Backdoor Man

    Sweet Jesus. See this about “2-D” love in Japan:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/26/magazine/26FOB-2DLove-t.html?em

    Like


  199. on July 27, 2009 at 3:36 pm The Snatch Whisperer

    Roissy, Kinda funny, isn’t it,that this post gets the fewer comments than one about some wrongly arrested black shmuck.
    speaks volumes about many of the long time readers/commenters.

    I actually have been waiting for you to post something about ‘naturals’, and not just some movie scene describing alpha behavior. When I first stumbled upon this blog, it was shortly after hearing about the whole Game movement. I was kind of shocked because what I saw was that someone was assigning terms to many of the things I have always done to attract women, aloof/asshole game, negs, that sort of shit.
    I’ve always done well with the ladies. There are those who do better, granted, and I understand that success is relative and to some extent geographical but having had the opportunity to live in cities like Austin, Atlanta, St. Louis and more recently in the rather sparsely populated Northeast I’ve enjoyed constant success no matter where I live. I don’t count numbers anymore but as of a few years ago I was hovering at the 90 mark.
    Your three points are spot on. What I believe to be true is that PUAs and Game ‘Experts’ in general have done is to basically look at a naturals approach and put terminology to it.
    Now, I’m sure that this will fall on deaf ears and that’s fine. The nick puts people off. Its vulgar, but it makes me laugh and so I stick with it. Anyway, great post. Would love to see more stuff like it. BTW, got a Big Face story for you if you’re interested.

    Like


  200. Please give a short list of the number of Hip Hop albums you’ve actually listened to?

    I am a hip hop groupie. Don´t ask me that or I´ll answer “everyone”

    The BEST girls I banged in the last 6 months were ALL first approached when Akon was playing. Akon rules.

    Like


  201. An Experienced Father–

    I think it’s absolutely outrageous that the court in that case issued a continued order of protection that prohibits Brown from getting anywhere near Rihanna, despite her telling the court she didn’t want it.

    So now they both have to sneak around to see each other which the obviously both want to do. How absurd.

    What an incredible infringement of liberty – for both of them.
    All in service of feminist ideology.

    All this over a mere black eye?

    I’m not saying the black eye was good but feminists and their extreme white knighting suckups have gotten totally out of hand on the domestic violence thing. As though every little thing was life threatening or some ultimate horror. Or always or even very often lead to horrifically more. It doesn’t usually.

    Like


  202. Doug,
    I’ve said before that young Chris Brown needed training in how to handle Women like Rihanna. She likes it rough. And she’ll push her Man to *BE* rough w/her. Somebody should’ve given him a copy of the Kama Sutra. Giving your Woman regular spankings does wonders for your relationship, you heard?

    O

    Like


  203. Obsidian–

    And she’ll push her Man to *BE* rough w/her. Somebody should’ve given him a copy of the Kama Sutra. Giving your Woman regular spankings does wonders for your relationship, you heard?

    Oh yeah. Agreed there O.

    That’s the right way to do it.

    Like


  204. on July 27, 2009 at 5:45 pm skeptic2000

    I’m skeptical of a lot of the stories and ideas I see on this site. No doubt some men get laid more than others and this has to do with a lot of things–game, looks, money, connections, whatever. But I don’t believe any of the stories that claim that any man whatsoever can walk into a bar in American today ALONE and pick up a HOT girl. Again, it is essential: ALONE, and HOT girl.

    If you go alone, no matter how good looking you are, you’re seen to be instantly sketchy. You will leave at most with a so-so girl if anything. You might get a NUMBER from a hot girl…but no way she’s leaving her friends right there to go home with the guy who just walked in alone.

    Your only chance for hooking up same night is if you go in a large group, preferably a mixed group, that then starts talking to another group, and so on, but my impression is that hot girls will only sleep with you if they already know you through some network of friends. Otherwise at most they’ll give you a number and you can meet up later maybe. But no way a HOT girl will leave her friends and go home with you if you meet her at a bar where you went alone and she doesn’t know you.

    I’m sure Roissy and others will protest but I’ve seen him call some below-average girls “hot,” I guess it’s a question of standards. You’re not going to a bar alone and picking up a smoking hot girl for sex same night, and I challenge anyone who claims otherwise.

    Like


  205. Very interesting take on it. Some people are so lucky to have things fall into place for them at an early age, in terms of knowing how to act!

    I would guess that very few people out there will do well in life without or without encouragement and become naturals. But the majority do get impacted by #3 a lot, and bad experiences scar them for life.

    By the way, there are girl naturals out there too (Girl Game = marrying the best guy possible and keeping him in madly in love with you). These are the girls who have the right mindset early on on how to show softness mixed with sexiness to hook a guy, on why Sex and the City is a fantasy life and not one to be emulated unless you are ready for the loneliness and other consequences, and how important it is to maximize beauty and youth and settle down with a guy *at an equivalent level to yours* at the earliest age possible.

    Unfortunately many of us girls who aren’t naturals in terms of maximizing our hotness have to learn the hard way too 🙂 So boys and girls aren’t that different from each other

    Like


  206. Obsidian — You’re Black. That means you can wear the dorkiest clothes and not get pigeonholed immediately as lacking in testosterone and aggression. That you wear Khakis, the cube-dweller’s uniform of choice, makes you less gangsta threatening to women, while still retaining the “edge” due to assumed greater testosterone (I have no idea if it’s true, women seem to think so).

    As a White guy of merely middling to short height, *I* cannot play that way. I do everything I can to suggest non-cube dweller. Dark Jeans, dressy shoes, dress shirt, sport coat. Which coincidentally is the uniform of most behind the camera creative people in LA.

    I’ve also heard women laugh at guys with Dockers/Khakis here, believe me I always try to eavesdrop (often easy with an Ipod turned off) to suss out attitudes. Carolla’s bit on the cube-dweller was spot-on. Women look for edge, and jeans + dress shirt and shoes, sport coat = edge, without getting out of my comfort zone and looking like a Flatbiller aka West Coast Guido. Since I have zero tats and such.

    Like


  207. Katto

    I just took a look at that article on that subculture of Japanese omegas. Pretty horrifying.

    Japan must be a true happy hunting ground for white American expatriates who are living there.

    Like


  208. skeptic2000: Some guys can carry off going to social places completely alone, some people can’t. But lots of people (mostly just men) go out alone or end up separatiing from their main group at some point no?

    Also, a lot of places just have a hook-up culture so a hot girl going home with a guy on the same night is not weird at all. Go to LA, go to NYC, go to Vegas, go to Miami even – total hook-up culture in many of the clubs. People get drunk, see each other, move up on each other, and go. Probably happens too fast for anyone to realize if the other came to the event alone or not

    Like


  209. Nemu,

    Regimentation, group-oriented culture and education, and extreme lack of social/geographical mobility, along with RIGIDLY defined sex roles that take men/women utterly out of the running if they hesitate to conform by mid/early 20s. “Women by Christmas, Men by New Year’s Eve”, i.e. marry by 25 or 31, respectively, or be a weirdo. Lots of paid sex work that caters to paraphilias (groping, water-sports, schoolgirls) or social simulacra of courting (hostess bars, no-sex girlfriend experience) but little sex at all (married couples report very little sex, Japanese women report least satisfaction in the industrialized world all the time). Mistresses are common and expected for men at the top of the corporate hierarchy, whereas middlemen pay bar hostesses for attention from someone more attractive than their mutual-economic-benefit wives.

    It’s a magnified form of the West’s lighter social stratification, where benefits accrue to dominance and everything else is paid for–in general, Japanese men have more paid options, but more men pay more frequently for a whiff of sex-like paraphilias or attention rather than sex, more loyal wives, and less satisfaction either at home or with professionals.

    Like


  210. on July 27, 2009 at 6:09 pm skeptic2000

    lovelysexybeauty:
    I’ve lived in two of those places and I go out a lot. I’ve NEVER seen a guy go home with a HOT girl unless they already knew each other somehow. Go home with so-so girls, sure. Get a number from a hot girl, sure. But never a guy come in alone, pick up a hot girl he doesn’t know, and leave with her the same night. Just doesn’t happen. And this is a very serious problem for a lot of reasons…and kind of throws a monkey wrench in the whole fantasy people have going here. Sex with hot girls just isn’t available like that. You have to go through hoops (in America, that is), which is humiliating.

    It’s true there are “hook-up” places but if you go in alone everyone immediately assumes there’s something wrong with you.

    Like


  211. Whiskey,
    I’m 5’8″. Shorter than the national average height for a Male, Black or White.

    But that don’t mean nothing. Some of the best lays I done ever had were with Women who stood 5’10” in stocking feet or taller. As I’m writing this my current lady is someone I’ve mentioned a few times before, Brown Sugah. All 5’10” of her. She got wetter than Niagra Falls seeing me dressed business casual the other day coming from Center City Philly in khaki slacks and a nice buttondown baby blue shirt.

    What I learned Whiskey, is that its all how you see yourself, and how you project that forward out into the world. Sure, choosing the right clothes matters, a lot of little things do. But it all really comes down to what some guys call “inner game”-how you see yourself, carry yourself. I can make Dockers khakis or Versace jeans sexy, that’s how I roll. And I’m not alone, I’ve seen White guys pull off khaki slacks w/a nice shirt and shoes really well. So it ain’t like it can’t be done. Its all in how you view yourself, how comfortable you are in your own skin, and, as well, the look, style and fit of the gear you’re wearing.

    You dig?

    O

    Like


  212. skeptic2000,

    Where do you live? As lovelysexybeauty said, there is nothing strange about going to a bar alone in a major metropolitan city and going home with a good looking girl that night. Even amongst people with game it is not necessarily common, but neither it is out of the ordinary.

    I will say, however, that I don’t know anyone that regularly goes out *alone*, and I’ve only done it a few times, never succeeding beyond a number/makeout close–going out alone puts you in a totally different mental state that makes it difficult for most people. But when I go in groups, I nearly always break away and walk around on my own, checking in with my group periodically. Not THAT different from gaming alone.

    But besides all that, roissy never specifically advocates to go out alone. The G is the only person I’ve ever read who is really gung out about cruising solo.

    Like


  213. *neither IS IT out of the ordinary

    Like


  214. Snatch Whisperer

    Your three points are spot on. What I believe to be true is that PUAs and Game ‘Experts’ in general have done is to basically look at a naturals approach and put terminology to it.

    Yeah, I agree.

    I have somewhat higher numbers but then you stopped counting and I’m likely quite a bit older. Like you it’s long been pretty easy for me but there have always been some around who are better.

    I don’t think it’s always quite as black and white on the first experience being a success rather than a failure front though. Depends on your mindset and how long it takes you to get from there to success I think.

    My first date at 14 looking for a gf, and targeting one of the two or three hottest, wasn’t a success, but not too tough a failure either. I didn’t let it get to me. I was convinced I basically had it and would do real well, I just was doing things a bit off. I never sucked up to girls or let them push me around. Well, maybe I did suck up to girls right at the beginning too much at first. Never how I was gonna let it play out though. Always had a dominant attitude, but at first I felt I had to cover that up with thorough nice guy. So that was some family and cultural programming I had to learn to undo. I did figure out at least in part what I’d done wrong even then.

    My first successes and sex (a lot of sex) happened that summer at a beach community with a favorable teen sex ratio and where I could somewhat remake myself, since no one knew me. Two girlfriends that summer and after awhile others showing interest. That made me way more confidant and into teasing, making girls chase, and realizing the huge value of the social proof of already having hot girls into you.

    That made me realize that 1) I basically did “have it” and 2) yes I had been doing things wrong, and that learning what worked and playing things the right way could make an enormous difference, even though I was still basically the same. I still hadn’t fully realized how important it was to not play Mr. niceguy at all, but instead be an asshole at times. That didn’t come until the summer after my junior year in HS. Got better in college, and actually pretty damn good by then.

    So I guess I was a self taught semi natural. Had to do some unlearning, and some learning. Did a lot of observing of what worked with other guys that were cutting it, and what worked for me when I was. that lead to improvement. So yeah I did think about it. But I didn’t read about it. There wasn’t any such thing as systematic “game” or PUA’s at the time, except you know Don Juan and so on.

    Like


  215. on July 27, 2009 at 6:34 pm skeptic2000

    JG–

    I don’t believe it really. I am willing to make a challenge to any master of “game” or super-alpha or whatever. I will give you $200 if you’re able to pick up a HOT girl after you go in a bar ALONE and bed her that same night…oh and she doesn’t know you, that’s important. A really smoking hot girl, not a girl-next-door type.

    I’ll be in DC next week…so the offer’s on the table.

    Like


  216. skeptic putting some money where his mouth is. Good shit!

    Like


  217. I’ve NEVER seen a guy go home with a HOT girl unless they already knew each other somehow.

    That is the impression I get too. The exceptions are if the guy already knows her friends but gets introduced to her that night, or if she is roaring drunk and is somehow gets abandoned by her blockers.

    Like


  218. Whiskey bro you need to start carrying around a severed head.

    Like


  219. on July 27, 2009 at 7:08 pm skeptic2000

    Gunslinger–
    I’m a “friendly” skeptic in that I’d really like to see it happen. It would give me a lot of confidence knowing it’s possible. But I have to see it to believe it. I’ve really NEVER seen it happen, at least not with American girls.

    Like


  220. ””””””””””skeptic2000
    lovelysexybeauty:
    I’ve lived in two of those places and I go out a lot. I’ve NEVER seen a guy go home with a HOT girl unless they already knew each other somehow. Go home with so-so girls, sure. Get a number from a hot girl, sure. But never a guy come in alone, pick up a hot girl he doesn’t know, and leave with her the same night. Just doesn’t happen. And this is a very serious problem for a lot of reasons…and kind of throws a monkey wrench in the whole fantasy people have going here. Sex with hot girls just isn’t available like that. You have to go through hoops (in America, that is), which is humiliating.

    It’s true there are “hook-up” places but if you go in alone everyone immediately assumes there’s something wrong with you.”””””””’

    The first time you walk into a club alone is the best time because the woman all want to be the first one to get the fresh dick. he he he

    Or yea if your hanging at same club all the time then you want a crew to impress any new chicks that come.

    Like


  221. on July 28, 2009 at 8:40 am The Snatch Whisperer

    Doug1,

    Learning and unlearning. You hit on a good point there. The more I think about this post, the more I’ve kind of been retrospective of why I have or haven’t had success.
    I’ve always been approached by women. That started early on and by the time I got to high school, I accepted it. Basically it had to do with my ‘status’ as an athlete, and being a bit of a pretty boy.
    The athlete advantage continued for a couple of years after high school while I played Junior Hockey in Quebec, and I noticed a change after an injury crushed any chance of playing Div I or Pro. I was still approached regularly but the girls weren’t competing for my attention. The same was true in college. I got laid more often than the average guy but I tended to screw things up more ‘after the lay’.
    I got married young and bitterly divorced after 5 years. For me that was the turning point or learning point, if you will. I went on a goddamn tear. That’s when I learned really how to use my ‘natural’ abilities to the utmost advantage. I was focused. I picked targets. Tried different approaches, made mental notes and developed theories of what worked, what didn’t and why. Twice in my life I’ve gone 7 for 9, seven girls in nine days. I don’t care what anyone says, that’s better than any average dude. Six months ago I pulled a peurto rican stripper from an all black club in South Carolina. How? Asshole game and huge balls.
    Now I’m 40. I look 30 and I don’t in general date women older than 30. I find that women my age resent the fact that I won’t even consider dating or bedding them and I find the 21-26 age class easier to lay than ever. But its been a learning process the whole trip.

    Like


  222. Gunslingergregi

    Whiskey bro you need to start carrying around a severed head

    dewd – quit stealing
    all my moves

    Like


  223. Lady Rain:

    Are you new to the fact that government LIE about their reasons for doing things?

    I am aware that governments lie all the time. Usually they lie about rampant abuse and oppression of women, and then lie more when they draft laws in gender-neutral language to pretend it’s not all about women’s privileges and to hurt men. But courts don’t make decisions based on personal fear of liability.

    Its not about caring more about women or anyone else. It’s about LIABILITY=$$$$. Do you doubt for a second that that’s what 95% of government decisions are based on?

    Doug already explained sovereign immunity. And courts are always independent even where the government may by liable, unless you have a dictatorship. At worst a court decision can be overturned by a higher court. Then ultimately there are Courts of Human Rights, but they don’t have any real power. Countries much less litigious than yours have the same feminist bias. Courts are always immune. Perhaps judges won’t last long on the job and be reelected or whatever if they don’t conform to feminism, but there are no “LIABILITY=$$$$” giant penalties. Courts can sentence innocent people to death with impunity and they can certainly lift a PFU that a woman doesn’t even want. The whole reason we have PFUs and restraining orders for the slightest thing is all because of feminism in the first place. You pretend like this is set in stone and we should accept it because it is the natural order of things, laissez faire. Reality is the reverse. You would never have this special protection without feminism and men enforcing it.

    As to education and jobs, you say, “It seems to me that you wouldn’t even be happy if if everything really WAS an exact 50/50 split between men and women.” There would never be a 50/50 split between men and women under laissez faire (and if you could, then yes I would accept it, even if not happy about it). The real problem with job equality is mating inequality. You need affirmative action for your 50/50 job outcome I am not happy with that. If we shouldn’t resist what simply is, why should you? And that is what women are doing and why you have your special rights. Men should not accept the delusion that this is natural and there is nothing we can do about it. We can and should do something drastic about it.

    Like


  224. ”””””””Firepower
    Gunslingergregi

    Whiskey bro you need to start carrying around a severed head

    dewd – quit stealing
    all my moves”””””””””””’

    That shit is old for me now. I have those on the shelf back home. I just carry stuffed fingers on a keychain for conversation starters now.

    Like


  225. doug

    1. The pictures of her face did not look like “a mere black eye” that “Might have been from just a hard slap that hit her just wrong.” I’ll freely confess that I’m not accustomed to getting beating, beating others, etc., but I’ve been smacked in the face … no black eyes, no split lips. Makes it hard to credence that it was from hard slap gone wrong.

    And I know you were refuting LR’s point that you don’t hit people you love (in anger, presumably) but this, despite that precious legal training, is your best response?

    He didn’t love her at that moment. He hated her, no doubt, due to some extreme provocation on her part.

    I think the idea she was getting at is you don’t smack people around. Apparently you disagree, that if a woman gets in your face enough you should be able to respond violently.

    Which makes me think … a woman has to eventually agree with your point/opinions, or she’s deserving of physical retaliation? That, despite the fact that you think women and men are equal (how do you phrase it? dominate – submissive, but equal), in the end a woman’s point/opinion isn’t equal — she should back the fuck down and get out of your face or be subject to some provoked smackage.

    Yeah that’s right. Women shouldn’t get so up in men’s faces if they don’t want that.

    Gross.

    Like


  226. Al:

    Gross.

    What’s way more gross, articulate one, is the hair trigger domestic violence regime for very little that feminist are now emasculating and oppressing men with.

    What I initially and primarily objected to was the absurd order of protection that keeps the pair from meeting for a long period of time, despite the fact that she didn’t want it. I.e. she considers this WAY less of a big deal than the court or the feminist lobbied and containing media do. It’s utterly absurd to impose that on them when she doesn’t want it. She doesn’t despite the fact that she’s been under huge feminist pressure, mediated primarily by the media but probably also by some friends and definitely some business agents etc. who are sensitive to media issues. The feminist media has strenuously lobbied for her to not see him and treat the incident as an act of utter horror.

    The pictures of her face did not look like “a mere black eye” that “Might have been from just a hard slap that hit her just wrong.” I’ll freely confess that I’m not accustomed to getting beating, beating others, etc., but I’ve been smacked in the face … no black eyes, no split lips. Makes it hard to credence that it was from hard slap gone wrong.

    You’re wrong. Anyway the pic that Roissy posted did look like a mere black eye. What more? A cracked lip? As for a slap. Could have been. Especially if it was a back handed slap. Which I agree is a lot worse than a front handed one. Could have been front handed slap too though if hard. A hard punch from a fit guy like him could easily have broken her nose. That would have been way worse. Certainly could/likely would have made her nose bleed.

    But in the end, yes it is “just a black eye”. The feminist desire to make it or anything like into some utterly horrific event is absurd. Note I’ve said that it’s not good behavior on his part. He got a bit out of control. He didn’t go whole hog crazy, but he went crazier than he should have. What I’m objecting to is not some social shaming of him for doing what he shouldn’t have, but criminalizing it at this level especially when there’s no evidence it’s a regular pattern.

    The fact is that a mere front handed slap, without any injury at all, could have lead to all this legal consequence in feminist America, with the laws they’ve passed and the media created judicial climate they’ve achieved. It must be reversed.

    I don’t think men should be beating up their wives even if provoked. If they do so regularly especially, that’s something else. I also don’t think giving a woman a black eye on a one off or very rare basis should be criminalized. It should be considered boorish. I certainly don’t think that anything less than significant injury should be pursued criminally unless the wife or girlfriend wants it to be. No I don’t mean by just a 911 call when pissed and scared (and maybe drunk). I mean after cooling off. They always used to be able to drop such chases. Yet not now, routinely, by elaborate processes that feminist have devised to keep women from being able to drop cases and that proceed as much as humanly possible without them. Really.

    All in conformity with feminist ideology and their deep desire to erase all male dominance. The principal remedy should be leaving him. Instead feminists want to enter the bedroom and the living room or married or cohabiting couples.

    I think men should have the right to the threat of some minor violent acting out, within limits, against their women. That’s thoroughly natural and how we evolved including culturally. It’s built in. I also think men should control their acting on this threat, and certainly always control getting out of hand. I think it’s important that it exists. Because you know. I believe in male dominance. This is only one aspect of that, but it’s not totally unimportant. I think it’s far better always left as a threat. Or only done by spanking, etc.

    But what’s happened under outrageous in the details feminist domestic violence legislation with oh so chivalrous type males caving in, is that men are rationally afraid of even angering their wife too much lest she make a false or vastly exaggerated domestic violence compliant in a fit of fury. And then have it stick or anyway lead to extended orders of protection and months of legal appearances an fines in the form of necessary legal fees, despite her attempts to not press charges, and so on. That’s EXACTLY how feminists have structured things. So that it’s pursued as far as it can be, despite her efforts to have it not be after she calms down and reflects.

    The main remedy for a legit abused wife should be to leave her husband or boyfriend and I support women’s shelters and so on that make it easier for them to do so.

    As for feminist domestic violence law, and ridiculous orders of protection when the woman didn’t want one, I say:

    Gross.

    More than gross. Male oppressive. Couples oppressive in service of feminist ideology.

    Like


  227. In the TMZ pic I saw, it looked like her face was swollen, black eye, split lip. I just don’t think that results from a “mere slap” and I don’t think comparing to how much worse it could have been makes it ok. I understand we can disagree on this, and frankly neither of us was there so arguing about the ‘provocation’ or ‘one-offness’ is rather futile, so I won’t belabor the point anymore, but an elbow to my eye hasn’t resulted in me looking like that.

    Personally, I think you’re a bit overblown on the whole “feminist laws” business. You throw around a lot of opinion, but I haven’t seen much concrete evidence or more than assertion/personal anecdote. But you know? I admit I am NOT an expert in the area, and I understand some of your basic points. There should not be favoritism in the law for one sex, and I think that in our attempt to fully recognize the “equalness” of our differences we have privileged women over men. In some cases. Maybe. Don’t quote me, because I’m still working through how I feel about all this gender stuff.

    And I edited out of the above post: if neither wanted a RO and if she wants to continue to date him, then the law/government/courts should stay out of it. I agree with that, but that said:

    As for criminalizing violence against partners …
    you know that in criminal law the state is the prosecutor, not the victim. The state chooses which actions are forbidden and which aren’t. It supposedly has a monopoly on force.

    I read your arguments as basically saying that if a man kicks the shit out of his wife, as long as she is ok with it, then let them be. I disagree; there is a line which shouldn’t be crossed. I’m starting to assume, now, that you mean that currently the law criminalized the ‘acceptable violence’ law at to low a threshold, but some violence transcends into forbidden territory?. But what I’m actually reading, is that “heh, yeah, it’s not ideal but in the end, if you can’t control her another way, beat the bitch. She asked for it in one way or another after all.” And that’s Gross. It’s also something the law should not allow.

    I don’t know how to draw the criminal line, but there is a line that should get a man in trouble if he crosses it.

    Also, I’d like further elaboration, concretely please, on these men who are afraid to ‘take women in hand’ because of the feminist laws. I struggle with the notion that fear of feminist laws against physical violence emasculates men so much that they can’t be men, in the way I think you mean (dominate partner), without the ability to resort to physical force.

    Like


  228. al

    And I edited out of the above post: if neither wanted a RO and if she wants to continue to date him, then the law/government/courts should stay out of it.

    Ok then. That was actually my major point in my initial post on the issue.

    As for criminalizing violence against partners …
    you know that in criminal law the state is the prosecutor, not the victim.

    That’s theoretically true but isn’t in practice in most minor offenses. Yeah it’s always true in murder and probably usually armed robbery. It’s true in victimless offenses and most traffic offenses that have victims. It’s essentially never true in e.g. an altercation between males that resulted in a similar amount of injury as Briana’s. You have heard of “pressing charges” or not right? That isn’t technically necessary but it practically is in most small things. Like this.

    The reason this is treated so differently is front and center, clear as day, no denying it, extreme amounts of feminist lobbying. All around lurid stories of terrible abuse. But really designed to emasculate male dominance in every household as much as they could.

    Further, if she does press charges, I a basically don’t think a man doing this much and no more to a woman he’s living with should be treated any differently than if he did it to another man. The basic remedy should be that she leaves him. If she doesn’t, I don’t think the state has any business interfering and trying to remake relationship dynamics unless he’s broken bones, permanently scarred or otherwise injured her, knocked her unconscious in something other than a freak accident or semi accident (slap resulting in her tripping and then unconscious, etc.) Yet it does now although not only a few decades ago. Why? Feminist ideology and advocacy.

    I don’t know how to draw the criminal line, but there is a line that should get a man in trouble if he crosses it.

    In this area more than others the prosecutor should not proceed unless she wants to press charges, unless there is serious injury involved. Rihanna did not suffer serious injury. I guess it got classified as lowest level felony assault by an overreaching and feminist lobbyied LA prosecutor. It wouldn’t have in NYC. It would be a misdemeanor assault. Though in NY too one the cops are called, she couldn’t not press charges and have it make much difference. Such is feminism.

    Listen al. Rihanna obviously didn’t regard it as all that serious, despite HUGE lobbying upon her that she should.

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  229. I apologize that the fact I agree with an unsolicited RO being ordered is wrong got left out. I also don’t really understand how a California court order apparently reaches all over the world, but hey. I also don’t get why people like the Yankees.

    The reason this is treated so differently is front and center, clear as day, no denying it, extreme amounts of feminist lobbying. All around lurid stories of terrible abuse. But really designed to emasculate male dominance in every household as much as they could.

    Assertion. Nice, and all, but please to be demonstrating. Simply stating “50 years ago and all of time immortal prior was different, and therefore that was norm and right and now is to be feminist” /= demonstration.

    I a basically don’t think a man doing this much and no more to a woman he’s living with should be treated any differently than if he did it to another man.

    Do you mean a man off the street, a friend, or a domestic partner? Is it treated differently than beating up your boyfriend? And do you recognize that some of the underpinnings of these laws is the idea that yes, a man on the street can walk away from his opponent, but in a committed relationship a woman may not have that same economic freedom.
    Whatever the failing in execution, some of what underpins this feminist lawmaking is the concept of a traditional family where the man holds the economic power, and the cage that may result when a man holds the money and uses force. Now, clearly that is not the case in Rihanna/Chris Brown, but not all “feminist” lawmaking is grounded in purely misandrist idealogy.

    And, I can’t help it, it feels different to me. Yes, I’m resorting to feelings and not logic, but I can’t imagine a situation where I can win a violent confrontation with a man. I can imagine that between two men on the street. Should I get really angry at my partner, I can’t do all that much physical damage to him without him allowing it, and yet he can to me. It really doesn’t seem the same as between two men.

    So, are you willfully saying that in all cases a woman should put up and shut or walk away, or that it today’s world with excessive feminist laws, etc. etc., she should shut up, walk or take it, and the law should stay out.

    Because there is this constant whiff underpinning your writings that yes in the end, it’s ok for a man to use as much force as he deems necessary against a woman. And that if he uses forces, and she doesn’t immediately leave, then its ok and justified and acceptable. Because that’s the natural order, and the government should basically stay out of it. (because in man on man street violence, generally a man wouldn’t stay around to be beat by another man. so the woman must like it on some level.)

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  230. al —

    Simply stating “50 years ago and all of time immortal prior was different, and therefore that was norm and right and now is to be feminist” /= demonstration.

    More like 10-30 years ago in most places.

    And yeah it sure is. Absent strong evidence to the contrary.

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  231. al

    Do you mean a man off the street, a friend, or a domestic partner? Is it treated differently than beating up your boyfriend? And do you recognize that some of the underpinnings of these laws is the idea that yes, a man on the street can walk away from his opponent, but in a committed relationship a woman may not have that same economic freedom.

    Horseshitte she doesn’t. she has now more than ever in history, yet these laws are more male oppressive in history.

    Yes she has the economic freedom to walk away. If she doesn’t it’s entirely her fault. she surely could. Besides there are lots of battered female shelters and what not which I’ve already said I support. That she might have to have less money than staying with some abusive males ( though usually they’re downscale and I’m only talking about minor physical hurt here on a one off or very unusual basis) is one of life choices. Men face hard choices all the freakin time. Feminists have sought to make women have to face little with respect to men that they live with or especially marry. He always pays no matter what she does is the feminist rule. If he does anything wrong she has pounds and pounds of his flesh because, well, she’s a woman. And women are hypergamous and men the reciprocal, and also focused on looks.

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  232. on July 30, 2009 at 1:19 am Epoxytocin No. 87

    @ Al

    Because there is this constant whiff underpinning your writings that yes in the end, it’s ok for a man to use as much force as he deems necessary against a woman.

    Not only is that “whiff” absent, but you’re demonstrating the exact problem shared by ALL feminists: you’re exaggerating everything thousandfold.

    Let me make this easy for you.
    Doug says, EXPLICITLY, that he sees the potential threat of controlled force as a net positive. First of all, according to Doug, in a healthy dynamic it will never get past the “threat” stage. Never. And if it does, it’s a one-off thing, and it will stop FAR short of “as much force as…”. I would wager that the force Doug has in mind doesn’t even exceed the force that a decent lover would use in the bedroom.

    And you?
    You hear “threat” and “controlled force”, and you think “actualization” and “uncontrolled force”. You’re creating entirely fictional faults and problems in Doug’s message.
    You’re no better than the people who made up the in-reality-nonexistent “college campus rape crisis” in the nineties.

    This is why feminism must be crushed, before it can even get out of the gate, at every opportunity.

    In any case, here’s how it works:
    It’s a yin and yang thing.
    Men have disproportionate physical power, and, in a traditional relationship, financial power.
    Women have disproportionate sexual power and emotional power.

    In a GOOD relationship, this is détente, and NEITHER side deploys the full hurt on the other.
    The man doesn’t beat up his woman, and he doesn’t refuse to provide for her.
    The woman doesn’t say No to her man, and she doesn’t nag him or drain him emotionally.

    In a BAD relationship, there is mutually assured destruction. The man uses unnecessary force on the woman. Or she refuses to have sex with him (YES, these are equivalent).

    That’s how it works.

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  233. Thanks for the responses.

    epoxytocin, while I appreciate you pointing out what I was thinking, I asked for clarification of what I thought I could be hearing to see if it was in fact what he was saying. Apparently it’s not.

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  234. @al- i was out talking with some people last night and the Rihanna thing came up. The people I was talking with (black females, educated and savvy) definitely thought Brown was wrong, but definitely also thought Rihanna must have seriously provoked him, either through verbal cruelty/manipulation or actually hitting him. they were having a fight because he was getting texts forom other women that night, which set her off. I think, of course, that he should *not* have hit her – worst case, if provoked to anger like that, just stop the car, let her out, say “get a cab home” and cool down. but people don’t always make the best choices when angry or upset.

    point is, in your exchanges with doug, ethe context of friction or fighting does not come up – you seem to view it as though a husband is asserting a right to regular beatings, like regular bathing or something. not so.

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  235. I think I communicated it badly, but I was trying to figure out the edges of what Doug was saying and why. It’s not like I often encounter men who openly discuss when and why hitting is ok, and I wanted to know more. I concede I was interpreting him improperly and understand his point much better now.

    I agree it seems plausible that they were fighting as you describe.

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  236. Gunslingergregi stole:

    ”””””””Firepower
    Gunslingergregi

    Whiskey bro you need to start carrying around a severed head

    dewd – quit stealing
    all my moves”””””””””””’

    That shit is old for me now. I have those on the shelf back home. I just carry stuffed fingers on a keychain for conversation starters now.

    dood – you just stole another one from me.
    srsly!!

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  237. epoxy–

    Very well said.

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  238. ””””””””’Firepower
    Gunslingergregi stole:

    ”””””””Firepower
    Gunslingergregi

    Whiskey bro you need to start carrying around a severed head

    dewd – quit stealing
    all my moves”””””””””””’

    That shit is old for me now. I have those on the shelf back home. I just carry stuffed fingers on a keychain for conversation starters now.

    dood – you just stole another one from me.
    srsly!!
    ”””””””””””””””””””””””

    Naa man I been doing that shit for 5 years now. You put the severed heads back on the shelf in 07.

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  239. What is a natural?

    Simple. The male equivalent of an HB8+.

    Pampered, spoiled and infected with a giant ego by doting parents – especially the opposite sex one. Like me.

    The natural’s pre-pubescent ass is kissed by siblings and the opposite sex. No matter what he does, it’s funny. it’s cool.

    When in puberty, that same ass is fucked repeatedly – even those with a complete lack of personality.

    When old enough to post on interwebz forums, attribute it all to “game”

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  240. Yea lol I was a natural up to 18 then that shit went to hell lol

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  241. Then I got my mojo back after a few “minor” speedbumps he he he

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  242. In the future, it will be most interesting to see current 20 year-old proponents of *natural* game justifying their past success to learned mental processes – when they hit 40 and their targets are, by necessity, a majority of MILFs.

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  243. I think there are truly very few “naturals” in the world. It really does all come down to charm and charisma. Something that we really aren’t raising our men to do naturally. But take the French man, it is natural for him to be charming and seductive. He sees it around him from the time he his little. French men love women and they know it.
    For those of us who aren’t French, it really isn’t hard to learn this attitude as an adult.

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  244. […] The one nice thing I have to say about my governor? He’s not as beta as his whore-soliciting predecessor. Paying for sex when you’re rich and powerful is something only the Master can get away with. […]

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  245. Any thoughts on seeding this type of outlook in the young? If I ever have a son I’d want to endow him with as much game as possible. Sure, he’ll replicate my behavior to some extent and hopefully learn something from my relationship with his mother but do you think theres anything else we can do to seed natural game in our spawn?

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