How Good Is Your Alpha Acumen?

Your ability to quickly identify and avoid social miscues, and to capitalize on power vacuums within shifting social arrangements, is more valuable to your success with women than your net worth or job status.

Thought experiment: You’ve been dating a girl for a couple of months, which means you should have been banging her for 7.5 weeks. She invites you to a house party being thrown by one of her friends. You mentally hesitate, knowing that the party will be filled with just her friends and you’ll be like an interloper adolescent male wolf trying to ingratiate himself to a new pack. But then you remember how good you are at working a room and decide there is little chance of an embarrassing faux pas.

At the party everything is smooth sailing. You’ve got her friends laughing and your girl is flitting about the room occasionally looking over her shoulder to establish your coordinates and magnitude of fraternizing with the competition (as an alpha male with keen insight of women, you know that it’s important to treat every attractive woman as your girlfriend’s potential usurper). Later, you are standing in a circle of ten or so people with your girlfriend and everyone is ricocheting conversational topics like a pong ball. One topic leads to another and your girl has started talking about how you wooed her on the second date.

“Oh yeah, he broke out the guitar and played ‘Spanish Ballad’. I thought it was so charming, but actually he just taught himself that one song. Ever since then I’ve asked him to play something else but he won’t. He sucks at playing guitar!”

The girls laugh, but a couple of the men in the group look over at you first before laughing nervously. Your girlfriend has just insulted you, though she may be sufficiently obtuse and/or conditioned by the feeble pantywaistage of past beta boyfriends as to not realize the gravity of her diss. Many girls are prone to this sort of behavior at social events, catapulting their own status and greasing their acceptance into the group on the backs of their hapless boyfriends. A woman knows she can engender female solidarity through the telling of humiliating tales about her lover.

What do you do?

I see six available options to the man in this scenario.

  1. Chuckle along. That will show you get the joke and can roll with the punches. You are TOO ALPHA to be moved by such an insult. You indifferent long time.
  2. Pierce her with the silent, icy stare of soul death. You communicate your displeasure with her without uttering any words. This course of action circumvents any possible verbal escalation and further awkwardness while still letting her know that she crossed a line.
  3. Directly call her out. “Yo, what’s with you shitting all over my hobbies? Check yourself.” Major awkwardness will ensue, but you’ll feel DAMNED GOOD and she’ll be a submissive kitten in bed for months.
  4. Indirectly call her out. “That’s funny. I was just thinking the same thing about that one and only meal you know how to cook.” If you’ve got the wit, this is an excellent option. You express your displeasure in a humorous, crowd-pleasing way that does not make too many people uncomfortable. Downside: Your thin-skinned girlfriend gets offended and a passive aggressive fight breaks out as spectators stare into their drinks.
  5. Nuke the vaj from orbit. “Fuck you.” Then walk out of the party. Yeah, you may have just spoiled any long term potential with your girl by permanently cutting off the reservoir of good will between her social group and you, but I guarantee she’ll come crawling on all fours back to you with her pussy so hot and bothered she sings an aria as you pound the bitch out of her.
  6. Change the subject. This is the go-to option for those men who want to avoid conflict and tension yet aren’t willing to play the genial butt of the joke.

Personally, I have opted for #4 when I’ve been in similar situations with a girl, but I trust my instincts to counterattack with the right amount of face-saving force. Not every man will react as smoothly. For the average guy who wishes to keep seeing the girl (and part of building an LTR is winning over each other’s social circles) I think #6 is best. #2 is also good, but you have to be careful to stare just long enough to make her face blush with shame, and not any longer. He might be best served saving his anger for later when he is alone with her.

#3 and #5 are great if the girl is nothing more than a fling to you, and you are happy being the Asshole to her Heloise. Really, it is a superbly satisfying power trip to walk out on a girl. I suggest all of you try it at least once in your life. I did it recently with a girl who said I was “pressuring her” for sex too soon (third date, my informal limit for delaying sexual gratification) and since that evening that I walked silently out of her life I’ve seen her three times in various spots around the city, and couldn’t help but notice her torment and yearning for my love in the way she nervously mumbled hello and tugged at her hair.

#1 is for two types of men:

a.  Established Alphas who dominate their girlfriends so completely that an occasional affront to his Lordship by his number one subject can be brushed off with a hearty, yet sinister, laugh. Oftentimes, a Master Alpha communicates his true intentions in subtext that only his girlfriend, accustomed as she is to the Macchiavellian delights of his power, will comprehend. The crowd hears him laugh along; she hears him laughing because she knows thoughts of how he will punish her for her transgression are going through his head. This makes her quiver with fear and arousal.

b.  Betas on a learning curve. It seems that every beta who has learned to avoid the worst fates with women — LJBF, cuckolding, dick sandwich, cockteasing, shit tests — reflexively retreats to Aloof and Indifferent game any time a girl tools him. “Go out and fuck ten other women” is simply not credible advice for most men without top notch game. “A and I” game is certainly superior to straight up beta chumpery, but it isn’t always the best course of action. However, a beta on the path to enlightenment may find it personally advantageous to minimize fallout rather than maximize opportunity. In the scenario I described, rolling with his girlfriend’s insult may prove to be the beta’s best option. An angry alpha will sound in command and someone to be respected, while an angry beta risks sounding bitter and spiteful. Unless you have a prior history of asshole game with your girl, you want to avoid the thunderbolt out of the blue FU option. A chuckle followed by an attempt to steer the conversation to an unrelated subject is how a man still grappling with his game and unsure of his authority over his girl should play it safe.





Comments


  1. I’d go for #4 or #6, then call her on it later in private. it’s possible that she was just obtuse, not deliberately trying to cause embarrassment. if it’s a repeating phenomenon, then it’s a character flaw and she should be dumped. if she gets that she insulted you in public and understands why it was wrong, she’s more likely to be a keeper.

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  2. Alternative option:

    Bust out a guitar out of nowhere, then let rip a breathtaking 5 minute solo while everyone is looking on in awe.

    When you’re done, smash the guitar, calmly walk to one of the people in the round, take their drink, take a gulp, then dump the rest over your head (you should be sweating profusely after the ass-kicking guitar solo).

    Then just walk out. While doing all this you should not say a single word.

    Bam. Everyone’s shit has officially been RUINED.

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  3. I would go for option #7:

    Pull out a bag of 50 E-Tabs you just got delivered by some dutch stewardesses and say:

    “Who threw this party? It sucks. Let’s get this gig going! Everyone take an E-Tab!”

    Push the DJ out of the way and throw on the Superfly Soundtrack. Vinyl, of course.

    Then commence trying to get another girl to go home with you and the girl you are dating.

    – MPM

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  4. I know many here will groan at what I’m about to say; so be it.

    Honestly, I have never encountered such a situation, and I have dated/banged quite a few Women over the years, and have attended social functions w/quite a few of them as well. Maybe is a (middle to upper class) White thing, this what I like to call Cloak & Dagger stuff, but I just have never experienced such a scenario, nor can I recall any other Black couples I personally know. Maybe its true, we Black folks on a whole, do tend to be a bit more direct. For example, if anything my experience has been that the Women I’m seeing DO NOT WANT ME TO MEET THEIR FRIENDS because they know the true nature of Women; one of them will invariably try & see if they can pull me away from my Woman. I’ve even had a few Women in the past come right out and tell me that they didn’t want their friends finding out how good I fuck. *shrugs*

    So, on this exercise, I’ll have to register a N/A; this is a White Thing-I just do not understand.

    The Obsidian

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  5. I would probably just chuckle and roll with the punches. From the comfort of my computer chair, I came up with the witty retort:

    “It only took one song to seduce you. Why would I need to expand my repertoire?”

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  6. #1 or #4 followed by saying something funny is the way to go. … I would probably laugh the hardest at my only knowing one guitar song and whooing girls with guitar skills.

    If the girl has that “proud you’re her boyfriend” air about her, then I’m not quite what she did was an insult. Its more of a compliment showing off a devilish and clever guy who tricked her into getting to know him and shes deeply glad he did.

    If your alpha throughout the rest of the party and in general, then the girls will wish you had played that one song for them or that their boyfriends were just as devilish, and the guys will see good game with minimal investment.

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  7. on June 17, 2009 at 1:37 pm Comment_Whatever

    I believe looking directly at her with considerable sexual heat and saying, “What can I say, it worked”, followed by a smirk, again directly at her, and then immediately changing the subject is a good idea.

    Well?

    (Girls ARE embarrassed by direct comments on their sexual behavior, but she SHOULD be embarrassed about her little stunt.)

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  8. Fascinating Roissy.

    Sometimes I come to this blog and feel like a novice poker player suddenly thrust into a game with Doyle Brunson or Annie Dukes; i.e., I’m experiencing advanced techniques that I can’t comprehend or use, and need to get a basic foundation first.

    Today, I think you spoke to us still learning. Your acknowledgement of those of us with an inability to “go out and fuck ten women” (e.g. anyone not named Roissy, Rooshv, or G) because we’re on a learning curve was helpful, although I immediately gravitated to choice 4, as it was a great neg comeback that might even get a whipped beta at the party laughing.

    p.s. as an update to opera girl, set up casual date on Thursday. The advice here helped, now been casually negging her on any texts (I never initiate).

    Any advice for the play on Thursday? Love to get her hoem b4 the weekend (I’m going away).

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  9. Comment_whatever, it seems betetr than just taking it sheepishly, but you’re admitting to failing. Like saying “yes I have a small penis.”

    Besides “worked” is a bit to ambiguous, I think, to really zing her correctly.

    Then again, could be wrong.

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  10. I like ASDF’s retort.

    Probably I’d only think of it hours later though. =)

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  11. O, it may be that black chicks throw more shit tests up way early or different places, but will give their man no grief in front of her friends.

    I remember a black-hispanic comedian describing being rejected at clubs by various races, and the punchline was along the lines that black girls go way over the top about it.

    “They have like a whole dance/cheer routine, and their friends all join in. It’s like a steps dance, with them all chanting “no way” right at you.”

    So black women may sell it up front, but at parties no.

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  12. some variant of # 4 is the way to go. asdf’s suggestion is probably similar to what i would say. any time a girl gives you shit about something it’s a chance to turn it around and remind her that she’s chosen you so she’s indicting herself as well. if you’re unsure in your game and don’t want her having those thoughts, then maybe # 1 is appropriate.

    as for 2, 3, and 5, maybe if you’re into having some sort of explicit dom-sub thing going on in your relationship, then reacting is the way to go. personally, i like a girl who gives me a healthy amount of shit. it keeps me on my toes and reminds me never to get complacent.

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  13. ASDF and G, good ideas.

    As always, G, love the plan, but trying to be you…well, most of us are well below even baby g status now.

    The e tabs: do you partake or just pass out? I’ve heard they kill off libido and just make guys huggie.

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  14. I’ll tell you what i did when a gf did something similar – I told her she “always has such a big mouth” laughed evilly – then smacked her hard on her ass in front of her friends. I mean a LOUD crack on her plush ass.

    she sputtered and gave the teehee “ya, i kinda do – sorry babe” That made her submissive apology resonate with her idiot friends.

    I’ve done the “stfu bitch” route when on my own turf. In my home or at my friends family. I have one funny story about an xmas party at my parents where my tipsy slice started acting “diva”. Last fucking time she ever did it.

    It’s a matter of territory. When you can boot somebody OUT, it’s different how circles perceive you when you are the one EXITING – even of your own volition.

    I look kind of mean but have an intellectual wit, so it makes for an odd combination sometimes; the calibration is always misconstrued by the masses of fucking idiots choking up society.

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  15. on June 17, 2009 at 1:47 pm Seeking Alpha

    I think a shorter version of Comment_Whatever’s is best…

    ‘It worked. [smirk]’

    And Roissy, nice work breaking down the difference between what a master alpha would do and what a rising beta would.

    You’re absolutely right that an ‘alpha’ action by an inexperienced beta can come off as bitter. I know I’ve made that mistake before. It’d be great if you can include these kinds of distinctions in other posts.

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  16. Lady Cumstaine, then you have never every dated a woman. Or had yourself recorded at a party.

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  17. Laughing: “Yeah, I know … but it worked”

    If she has a cute friend that plays guitar
    Look at cute friend. Maybe [cute friend] could teach me a new tune…
    [extra alpha points if you can impart some sexual untertones to the last comment]

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  18. “That’s funny. I was just thinking the same thing about that one and only meal you know how to cook.” seems passive aggressive and can only lead to SWPL bickering.

    When this happened to me, my response was: “hah, you’re just mad because I wouldn’t play any backstreet boys songs.”

    You are playing a game with a headstrong child and it should be treated as such.

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  19. Its all in how she tells her story. Once a girl falls for you, I’ve found they love to swap stories with girlfriends about how jerky/bad boy you were.

    I can only picture this story being told in a loving, funny way that raises status not lowers it. The fact that your even the focal point of her story is a good thing.

    No measures to be taken except keep doing what your doing

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  20. Firepower—wow, I love that idea. Very Mafioso-esque. Ever notice how girlish mafia gfs act when the man comes around?

    See the scene where Robert DeNiro is putting his girl in her place in “goodfellas.”

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  21. Fellas, come on, I really need to get your feedback here.

    I just got finished saying that such a scenario Roissy laidout is alien to me, and from what I can tell, many other Black folk. There does seem to be a bit more direct way of doing things in Black America; things tend to be more explicit than implied.

    So much of what Roissy laidout is implied, and thus, by its very definition, murky. Hence the number of “options” to handle such a contrived scenario-why can’t the girl simply introduce you to her friends, and leave at that? Or, if looking good before her friends is that important, why not bring up something nice about you? This has happened to me many times. I simply don’t get it.

    WHY do Whites, particularly middle class Whites, seem so indirect? Why can’t you just come out and say what you mean, and mean what you say? It seems that sooooo much mental and emotional energy is spent attempting to divine the hidden signals behind things that it hardly seems worth the exercise at the end of the day.

    C’mon fellas. Help me better understand the White Psyche here.

    Comments?

    O

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  22. “Your girlfriend has just insulted you, though she may be sufficiently obtuse and/or conditioned by the feeble pantywaistage of past beta boyfriends as to not realize the gravity of her diss.”

    I think the important thing to realize here is this girl has insulted you.

    This is the tip of the iceberg.

    She is trying to break you down.

    If you were to make the unfortunate move of actually marrying this girl down the road, you can look forward to a lifetime of misery.

    Bust out the E-Tabs and swoop other girls at the gig.

    And make sure you spark up plenty of cigarettes in her friends crib.

    And of course, grab a bottle of Grey Goose for the road.

    – MPM

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  23. #1: beta
    #2: Possible, but probably excessive for such a minor slight.
    #3: Direct call out is not necessary unless the dis was more serious and part of an ongoing pattern that you have previously discussed as not acceptable.
    #4: The tit-for-tat insult exchange easily slips into beta. I see many dysfunctional relationships stuck at this level. Instead of retaliating, just call a spade a spade “Well, maybe I can’t play the guitar but I seem to have played you just fine… honey” with knowing smirk while grabbing her ass.
    #5: Lame, nuclear war is *almost* never necessary but should be hinted as “on the table” of options when ever necessary.
    #6: Should be “Change the subject but duly noted the transgression for later punishment” Really depends on the status of the relationship, type of woman, acute angles, scale of the dis, etc. Hard to judge without more context.

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  24. inair, don’t forget to do the “el Kabong” over her head.

    Then grab a brewski and play the Steve Austin theme before you leave.

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  25. #1 and #4 are the only two ways in which I would know how to react in that kind of situation.

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  26. O, see above.

    G, as always, you da man.

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  27. G:

    Short form: political correctness.

    We have to obfuscate to survive at work. For most women, that is their strength.

    I suppose there is also a cultural component. Witness “white” tv these days.

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  28. If I’m going out with a girl I expect her to be friend and ally in social situations. Insulting me, in public no less, is intolerable. You need to set her straight lest she think that this sort of behavior is acceptable and becomes the norm.

    I tend to have a bit of a temper- so reacting to her is going to be direct and immediate- so I’ll most likely be employing method 2. Methods 3 and 5 are used if she fucks up in private (or if this faux paus is so great that I lose my temper with her in public). I’m also a bit skeptical as to how effective 4 would be in actually correcting the behavior- it seems a little too much like snarky SWPL sour grapes retaliation to me.

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  29. Now, I’m embarrassed:

    Sorry, G, that post was meant for Obsidian. Brother had a question.

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  30. on June 17, 2009 at 1:59 pm Virginia Gentleman

    I’d have to be very careful that I didn’t go straight to number five. A lot of it would depend upon my internal read of the mood—a nasty “nuke the site from orbit” response always seems to be available when presented with something like this.

    Aloof and indifferent with a snorted “Hmmph” is probably what I’d go for, or some variant of number one. There’d always be room for an “Annnnnyway, as I was saying” with a roll of the eyes in her general direction. Not sure how productive that is, but it’s always on the list.

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  31. Obsidian

    “WHY do Whites, particularly middle class Whites, seem so indirect?”

    Not sure “Why”, but the scenario that Roissy brought up, seems familiar to me.

    I would say I have not been in this scenario with high end latinas.

    It is more common in middle to upper class white situations.

    Cultural thing I guess.

    Like I said above, this is an insult and the tip of the iceberg of a girl trying to break you down.

    Listen to The Rolling Stones (personal favorite) ‘Under My Thumb” for the flip side:

    – MPM

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  32. CB:Fuck you.
    HB:……
    Beta friend of HB: Whats your name?
    CB: Fuck you, thats my name!!
    Beta friend of HB: *half ass laught*
    CB: You think I’m fucking with you…..I’m not fucking with you.

    OR

    Option #7.

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  33. No girl on my first string, ever pulled an insult of this kind on me in a social gathering with her friends so I will be out of practice if ever this occurs.

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  34. Thinking about it (too late in real life, I know).

    “works” might be better than worked. The word “works” implies many conquests other than the current one.

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  35. Those deep in LTR game absolutely NEED to know the ropes in this example. The first key to success is recognizing this as the shit test it actually is.

    #1 Be very careful with this response. If you’ve clearly established yourself as alpha to her and to the group, it’s okay. But a lot of guys choose this option because they’re simply lazy. And laziness = beta.

    #2 Doesn’t adequately address the shit test. Smacks of insecurity.

    #3 Can be done–but only if coupled somehow with a big wide grin on your face. Such a mixed signal can get her juices going. Even better… if you’re clearly alpha, you could add to her comment, carrying it to an absurd level and where the subtext actually communicates the opposite: that your girlfriend’s comment is full of shit and you are extremely confident. For example, you could say, “What are you doing mocking my single only talent in this world? I practiced that song for a full five minutes before it worked on you and got me into your bedroom!” Know that part of the win here is that this modified #3 response has a self-effacing benefit–which experiments show can help those men who are above-average in attractiveness/alpha status. …But if #3 is expressed as Roissy framed it (or didn’t frame it), it smacks of nearly as much insecurity as #2. As I’ve framed it, call my modified response here #3b. Highly acceptable.

    #4 Is the most reliable option. The counter-wit response will never fail. Tried and true. Sometimes, the right counter-response comes to you five minutes later or even on the ride home. “Damn! I should’ve said…” But the aware alpha should maintain his wit-generating engine (don’t be lazy) throughout evenings like this such that the verbal ripostes are always on tap. If you’ve negged a woman or two before this whole dialogue began, you’ll be primed.

    #5 While I like the audacity (the comment will be remembered by all!), you only stand a 50-50 chance of the positive outcome mentioned by Roissy. Ultimately, this response isn’t passing the shit test. Indeed, if you want an LTR, you can’t go around nuking every vaj from orbit at the slightest provocation. Tests like this are part of the female job description. Learn to navigate them successfully or else install a revolving door out of your bedroom.

    #6 Kind of a cop-out. Yes, it’s better than #2 or #5, but if you choose it all by itself, you miss out on a huge opportunity to score. This response doesn’t WIN the shit test; it’s merely the lowest passing grade. …But I see no harm in adding #6 to one of the other options such as my modified #3b or to #4.

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  36. Clarence

    “I suppose there is also a cultural component. Witness “white” tv these days.”

    I was thinking about Hollywood and TV these days.

    Every male is either beta, wimpster or some type of buffonish douchebag.

    What ever happened to the hard drinking, hard smoking, flash, well dressed, classy Alpha Male?

    Sinatra would have never been a star in this age. Or Connery.

    Girls in this country who take there cues from the media (read all girls) don’t have any frame of reference anymore.

    More gasoline for the argument that you cannot marry American Women.

    – MPM

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  37. You missed the following option:

    “Excuse me a moment folks. Sheila, can I talk to you for a moment?”

    The two of you move aside:
    In icy tone with icy gelid eyes, sottovoce: “Diss me ever again like that in public and it will be over so fast your head will spin.”

    Without allowing time for a reply return to the group like nothing happened.

    She will go thru all the emotions from incoherent rage to eventual respect that you called her out on her shit without counter-embarrassment while drawing a line while showing extreme control.

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  38. Obisidan: “WHY do Whites, particularly middle class Whites, seem so indirect? Why can’t you just come out and say what you mean, and mean what you say? It seems that sooooo much mental and emotional energy is spent attempting to divine the hidden signals behind things that it hardly seems worth the exercise at the end of the day.”

    (1) Cultural: My first guess is that is has to do with the political correctness that’s been force-fed to us since the 60s. Whites, particularly middle-class whites, have learned that you have to REALLY watch what you say, so as to not cross some ill-defined gender/race/class “sensitivity” line. (This tendency to self-censor is then internalized and spreads). Minorities get more of a pass than whites, and are *allowed* to “say what they mean” without much fear of social reprisal.

    (2) Physical: My second guess is that it is somewhat genetic/physical, especially with regard to testosterone levels. Black women have WAY more testosterone, on average, than white women. They had stronger libidos as a result of it….and they are more direct and have louder mouths (when they do speak out) because of it.

    In support of (2), and somewhat undercutting (1), now that I think about it: Consider East Asians. They are even MORE reticent and indirect than whites. They also have less muscle mass and testosterone than whites, who in turns have less than blacks, etc.

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  39. — “hah, you’re just mad because I wouldn’t play any backstreet boys songs.”

    This was the best of all replies. It’s a good comeback and will get you laughs from the crowd rather than uncomfortable silence. Plus, it doesn’t take a superalpha to pull it off.

    — WHY do Whites, particularly middle class Whites, seem so indirect?

    Are you saying that black chicks are NEVER subtle, duplicitous, backstabbing, indirect, and snakelike? I’ve seen Chic Noir do this tons of times here, like any good red-blooded female.

    OK, forget the indirect nature of Roissy’s example. How about if a Sistah did a low-level diss on you in front of everyone at the party — how would Obsidian respond?

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  40. Sistahs attack more upon first meeting, not at social gathering showing off her male.

    For a black chick, it’s “look I got a man, and I treat him right”; for a non-black, its “look at this guy I will make dance for me.”

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  41. To Obsidian: “I just got finished saying that such a scenario Roissy laidout is alien to me, and from what I can tell, many other Black folk. There does seem to be a bit more direct way of doing things in Black America; things tend to be more explicit than implied.”

    It’s simply a shit test. You can’t tell me the women you date don’t shit test you. Yes, the example here is a little different. The stakes are higher. She tested you while in her comfort zone among friends rather than in private. But it’s also an opportunity to WIN within the comfort zone of her friends. Pass this one and you definitely stand-out as THE man among all previous chumps.

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  42. Antonio for the win: When this happened to me, my response was: “hah, you’re just mad because I wouldn’t play any backstreet boys songs.”

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  43. Not at all on topic, just pertinent to this blog:

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  44. This is my big problem with men trying to use ‘game’ to solve relationship problems.

    Men who exert this much effort trying to “capitalize on power vacuums within shifting social arrangements” is no longer acting like a man, he is acting like a woman.

    This is not an election to the senate, this is a fucking party with a bunch of her idiot friends.

    If this happened to me, (and something similar to this has) I would first give her a silent look to let her know that she has fucked up. If she does not come forth with an immediate apology, then you turn to the host of the party and apologize for your girlfriend, saying something like, “I’m sorry, my girlfriend sometimes says stupid things.” If she still doesn’t apologize, then you leave her there to find her own ride home. If she is not chasing you to the parking lot begging you for forgiveness, then when you get home, toss anything she has at your place in the trash, and delete her number from your phone.

    And count yourself lucky. You just found out that you were dating a selfish bitch. Most bitches are good at hiding it, but sooner or later they reveal who they really are. A chick that insults you and refuses to apologize is NOT a LTR. Period.

    And before anybody starts with the bullshit, let me say this: You cannot train a person unless they want to be trained. People don’t change unless they want to. Ever. If she wants to be a bitch, then a bitch she will stay, regardless of how tight your game.

    The only thing you can decide, as a man, is how much of her shit will you eat just to tap her ass. If you have no pride, then by all means do whatever it takes to continue to fuck her while you are looking for something else.

    But I believe a real man would not sacrifice his dignity for a few more orgasms with a bitch.

    But that’s why I’m a beta: I don’t play social dominance games, and I won’t do absolutely anything to get laid.

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  45. on June 17, 2009 at 2:22 pm Willard Libby

    I would go with #2.

    Anything more I had to say to her would be done privately. I’m not into public displays of affection or public displays of displeasure toward a girlfriend.

    I would explain myself to her later and then move on.

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  46. LR – “I am also confused by this scenario. I can’t imagine that many women do this. That’s just inappropriate no matter how long you have been together. You never cut your partner down in front of others. Period.”

    Married women pull this shit all the time. I can’t think of one married guy I know that his wife hasn’t cut him down in public. In my experience, they all do it.

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  47. I can’t think of one married guy I know that his wife hasn’t cut him down in public.

    Mine has never done it. Ever.

    Not that I am a tyrant, but I’ve preemptively told every girl I’ve ever dated that I don’t tolerate any kind of dissing in front of other people. Plus, tight LTR game makes her adore you in front of her girlfriends.

    I know guys whose wives blatantly cut on them in front of others. To me that’s a sign that there are larger problems in that marriage an dthat she disrespects him as a lesser beta.

    Like


  48. Am I the only guy who things that joke, on its own and not part of an overall pattern of passive aggression, wasn’t that big a deal? Unless the guy really takes pride in his guitar skills or something.

    Like


  49. on June 17, 2009 at 2:30 pm snatch magnet

    I’d give it a chuckle and look directly at the hottest girl in the room saying “Yes, an old Spanish Ballad, called Panty Remover in G” and smile, knowingly.

    Like


  50. on June 17, 2009 at 2:31 pm Seeking Alpha

    Every male is either beta, wimpster or some type of buffonish douchebag.

    What ever happened to the hard drinking, hard smoking, flash, well dressed, classy Alpha Male?

    Ari Gold. Doesn’t smoke, but his suits are always tailored perfectly and always with a pocket square.

    Like me this weekend at his engagement party.

    Dark blue Boss suit – freshly tailored by the town’s best old Italian guy to fit like a glove – pink-and-white checkered pocket square (square fold as always), and pink/purple zegna tie, while smoking a Davidoff Millenium on the porch with friends and the only man at the 100-person party better dressed than me – pops.

    You woulda been proud G.

    Like


  51. O

    The Brits are much worse so maybe it is just part of Anglo-Saxon culture which even non-Anglo Saxon white Americans live.

    It probably has something to do with keeping up appearances and stiff upper lip and all that. Being too direct can seem like being rude.

    Like


  52. I just feel really sorry for my White brothers that they have to labor under such bullshit contrivances. Its one thing to read non verbals and deal w/subtext, quite another to play a kind of Cloak & Dagger w/the Woman who shares your bed in the name of running some kind of gauntlet in front of her socalled “friends”. In the end, it aint worth it.

    Heh, Tokyo Obsidian, just please don’t start saying that “quality women never shit test.”

    Like


  53. PA,

    LOL, don’t worry, me and you know who couldn’t be more different; remember, I know what its like to actually get laid by quality Women, *he does not*.

    Nor am I challenging the notion of a shit test. What I am questioning goes beyond that. I am questioning the behavior of a group of people that quite frankly, I find counter productive. Think about it-the scenario Roissy presented threatens to be such a time waster that in a more sane universe would have never happened in the first place-if the Man is good enough to take to a party and meet your friends, that should be the end of it. Yet, and I gotta say it, White folks have this need to go through these Cloak & Dagger gyrations. The question for me is-WHY?

    Got any ideas, PA?

    O

    Like


  54. Lady cumstaine never believes she rips down a man.

    Then she comes here and rips down the man who implanted her child within her.

    What a loon.

    Like


  55. I would have given her the droll/bemused stare and said “what are you talking about? I play the guitar rather well [pause] you simply haven’t inspired me to play you anything else”

    If she catches on to her faux pas, all to the good for her potential.

    If she brings it up late, you can pointedly inform her of her error.

    Like


  56. great post…very important topic.

    #1 and #4, yeah, #1 is used by betas, but that shouldn’t deter alpha men who just don’t get rattled by a little ribbing from using it. i’m not claiming to be supreme alpha of the world, but if i was ribbed (assuming the joke is similar in its harmlessness as the guitar joke), if i didn’t have a witty retort on hand a la #4, i would merely laugh along or make a self-deprecating comment.

    of course, everyone on this board will jump on the bandwagon *against* the self-deprecating comment, but in this situation it does no harm. the fact that you can display that you are relaxed and easy-going accentuates your alphaness.

    2,3,5 should be used for serious transgressions like if she says something disparaging about your sexual performance, even if in jest.

    solid alpha acumen involves using these different strategies in the right settings. going nuclear over a little joke about shitty guitar playing (which you have no egotistical investment in) would show her and her friends that you can’t take a joke. any jokes you throw out in the future would be rebutted with similar cry-babyish attitude.

    i’m sure Obsidian will agree, keep it fun, keep it light if at all possible.

    #4 is correctly the go-to option. you don’t come off as a little bitch because you didn’t initiate the dig, and a display of humor is always a plus to a group of women. you’ve already banged the date, the only other women to impress are her friends, and this is the strongest weapon for that.

    #6 is for pussies or betas. Change the subject only if you’re too tired or drunk to do anything else.

    Like


  57. PA,

    You must be the exception, not the rule.

    Like


  58. PA, Lurker, MNL,
    I think Lurker’s on to something, PA; the obvious shortage of “eligible” Black Men available may indeed play a role here, along w/the other, if you will, HBD-related things. Black Women do indeed shit test, but in my view they do it differently than White Women, and, again as Lurker noted, they do it at different times of the relationship, mainly earlier on, whereas, it seems White Women seem to do it throughout and especially at times when they can be in crowded gatherings.

    As to how I would respond if I was put into such a situation, my grin would disappear in a flash and look at her w/a Black Spock look; I have a way of making the room go quiet. And I would make sure it remained that way for a good long minute before I decide to say, please pardon the lady, she didn’t mean what she said.

    O

    Like


  59. remember, I know what its like to actually get laid by quality Women, *he does not*.

    Touche!

    White folks have this need to go through these Cloak & Dagger gyrations.

    Did you see my earlier question to you, asking if black chicks don’t diss their guys either? Maybe they don’t, but it’s hard for me to believe. I’ve even seen Chic Noir do some of that subtle instigatin’ female stuff here on occasion.

    Like


  60. Doug

    1) She perceives you and completely accurately or not she perceives her group of friends as also perceiving you as the Lion King. (I’m going by the name; don’t confuse issues by the Disney things I never saw.) What she is doing she feels is tweaking his nose ever so slightly, because the Lion King is so preeminent in his domain and she is so secure in his affection. She’s instinctively showing both off. (The more he looks like the looming prize at this party, the more likely she is to do this. The more there are a couple of other possible near male competitors present, the less she is likely to do this.)

    If she was treating me right consistently before and after the joke, this is how I would take it. I guess the overall context is what matters. If it’s part of an overall pattern, that would be different.

    Like


  61. This just sounds like one of the vaunted negs y’all adore using, yet here it’s completely unacceptable. No ok for a lady and necessary for a man … at all times?

    Any of the #4 lines mentioned above would shut me up, and I’ve been guilty of similar behavior. It can be easy to forget to suddenly restrain a smart mouth that is acceptable in almost all other areas of social life (including, probably, half the time you two are together).

    O, some of us are also trained that it’s impolite to directly say something the other person won’t like if you want to remain on good terms with them. Indirect teasing is one way to make a point (though that doesn’t seem to be situation above.) Junior high girls are especially effective at instilling this knowledge in their friends.

    Like


  62. Ovid, PA,
    PA, have you noticed my exchanges w/Chic Noir? I think you would agree that she doesn’t come off that way w/me, and for good reason. Although I have no designs on her in a sexual way, I still relate to as a Man, in this case, an older, and thus, more experienced Man. I have earned her respect and as a result, she doesn’t “lick my face” like a puppy, if you will. And I respect her, as a human being and as a Woman. But there is a clear line of demarcation there, and it shows in our exchanges, which, I think, speaks to the absence of shit testing from her to me. It is not necessary because she knows what I am about.

    Ovid, I would suggest testing the Black Women in question with more IOIs, then get back to me.

    O

    Like


  63. uhh anyone who calls the #1 choice as being “beta” is a fucking socially retarded moron. That shit wasn’t even insulting. It was a playful joke. If I was this guy in this situation, i’d actually appreciate the girl more for her humor…coz that joke actually made me laugh.

    Or maybe i am just a supreme alpha.

    Like


  64. My own response would be as follows. Note, I take this as a situation where my girl perceives me both to herself and to her group as a Lion King. However, I won’t take for granted that I’m yet as unambiguously Lion King to all her friends as she thinks or hopes.

    Predominantly I’d follow reaction scenario 1, but with touches of 2 and 4, finely calibrated to the nuances of the situation.

    Note I’d want not only her, but her friends to see touches of the icy stare of (2). I’d want both to perceive it as a warning, rather than an actual rebuke. I.e., “this much was ok because I’m indulging you, my baby girl, but be careful, and not much further.”

    Then, not necessarily immediately but soon, I would launch into the “knows how to cook only one thing” joking retaliation. However, I’d do it only half or less than half seriously. It would be rather a warning that I could do it or similar bitingly and tellingly, but aren’t at all. In this spirit it would be better if it isn’t true or even all that close to true, because after making the one dish joking dig and getting a laugh, I could then compliment her on having a bigger and growing repetoiry. (The opposite, her being know among her friends as a bang up and creative home chef can’t be the case for this line of kidding to work at all of course.)

    The ending praise of her cooking does two things actually. Shows me as magnanimous and also suggests to her that while she’s got five things down well, a few more would please me more and lead to more praise.

    Oh, at some point I might circle back to the guitar topic and say “what’s the point of learning a whole raft of songs when in the right hands, one is all it takes?” Again said jokingly rather than seriously. However, I said might. Dynamics. That might well be overkill and hence working too hard.

    Like


  65. No that’s one thing that I don’t bend on. I never ever cut my partner down that way. If he deserves it, then it’ll be in private and I’d expect the same in return.

    Since when was the internet private????????????????

    Like


  66. O:

    “And I would make sure it remained that way for a good long minute before I decide to say, please pardon the lady, she didn’t mean what she said.”

    you’ve flipped it on its head. this goes against everything you’ve seemed to stand for. what happened to keeping it fresh, loose, and fun?

    she made a joke about guitar playing…assuming that guitar playing is a minor hobby, there is no attack on your alpha kingdom.

    what is the goal of the icy stare or the “fuck you” route? keeping her in line? making one of her friends attracted to you? making her want to fuck you harder?

    if you’re actually offended by her comment, even though being offended is a beta trait, then why would you care to fuck her anymore? if her transgression is that bad, why not ditch her then and there? the icy stare or “fuck you” is more likely to end up in juvenile back and forth than anything esle. her friends will merely think you’re an ass for getting riled up over a silly comment. so really, any goals you might have are left unmet by going nuclear.

    homed alpha acumen quickly takes register of the reaction of the audience. regardless of what’s inherently right or wrong, the “winner” will be judged by the reaction of the friends. if they laugh at your retort, you win in multiple ways. if they frown or are taken aback by your lack of sense of humor, she wins. if her comment goes too far, the crowd can sense that too. your reaction has to be finely tuned to her dig.

    *that* is the mark of a socially dominant alpha male. he has to know when to hold em, know when to fold em.

    Like


  67. on June 17, 2009 at 3:12 pm Cliff Arroyo

    #9 Hold your hands over your ears and start screeching. “Mommy, mommy, make the voices stop, make them STOP!!! Please!!!!”

    #10 Look wounded and in tones of ice and barely controlled rage: “My grandfather taught me that song, he was a wonderful caring man. The cancer was getting pretty bad then so his technique wasn’t so good, but I’ve always played it just like he did to honor his memory …. and you just shit on his grave.”

    #11 Faint and lie on the floor having violent convulsions for a few minutes, after you come to allow as how the frequency of your girlfriend’s laugh often does this to you. “She knows this, she knows. I can’t understand why she keeps doing it….”

    #12 Pull out your cellphone and say “Whats the address here? I’m about to call 911 to them some bitch gonna get beat down real hard and they should send the ambulance as quickly as possible.

    Like


  68. on June 17, 2009 at 3:13 pm snatch magnet

    One thing we need to remember here is that if you have been banging her solid for 7.5 weeks and doing a good job of it, her friends know all about it. Women tell there friends everything. Rest assured every woman in that room already knows the size and cant of your johnson.
    There is no deed to blow the situation out of proportion. That will only work against you.
    Tight LTR Game goes farther than you think. When women see one of their friends being treated well, they will unconciously, although sometimes blatantly, gravitate towards you. Making that work in your favor is what counts.

    Like


  69. on June 17, 2009 at 3:13 pm Tower of Thunder

    The best answer is a pithy one of the “it worked” variety.

    She’s trying to make you look like every dumb henpecked guy in a tv commercial — subservient to a woman and needy. You have to turn the table and make clear that her posturing in front of friends is hollow grandstanding and that when the two of you are alone, you are in charge.

    Maybe try, “Hey, Spanish Ballad works — I can’t remember the last time you ever let me finish it.”

    Tell it in a way that unmistakably conveys the picture of her giving you head, repeatedly.

    If she is a quality girl with bad habits, talk to her after the party and tell her that she better not pull shit like that again. If she is unredeemable, keep blasting away until something better comes along.

    Like


  70. @doug1

    4)she simply didn’t measure the consequences of her acts. that’s why we call women “childish”. after you fail, then she’ll do it on purpose to test her betayzing boyfriend

    what the G said comes to mind then. it will never stop. She showed herself, and she’ll do this kind of stuff again, and again.

    Like


  71. i too can’t shake the feeling that roissy’s post shows a certain amount of overthinking/overreacting. it’s good to illustrate principles of game that every guy should have running on background, as it were, in his mind. (that’s why we all show up here to read about them.) but not in the foreground. it’s a minor shit test, not a huge insult, and if the girl is of quality and you show her why it was upsetting to you, then she won’t do it again if she respects you. if it’s a pattern, though, different story.

    the positives in this story greatly outweigh the negatives. you’re having sex with her, she likes and respcts you enough to pull you into her social circle, the general mood and environment is good. overreacting to one comment might tag you as thin-skinned, beta, or excessively self-absorbed. it should still be handled correctly, but i wouldn’t obsess over it if everything else in the relationship is good, as it seems to be.

    so, @obs – i don’t see this situation as “cloak & dagger” – just an SWPL-ized version of a black chick’s bitch shield. in SWPL world, you can’t ever be direct or hurt anyone’s feelings. i’m OK, you’re OK. that’s why it’s a totally beta-tized world, and direct alpha behavior will stand out if you can carry it out correctly. but most people can’t, so they avoid it and stick with the groupthink.

    however, there’s one bit of roissy’s post that illustrates a harmful larger pattern:

    “Many girls are prone to this sort of behavior at social events, catapulting their own status and greasing their acceptance into the group on the backs of their hapless boyfriends. A woman knows she can engender female solidarity through the telling of humiliating tales about her lover.”

    this is absolutely true, in my opinion, and larger than the guitar story here.

    what’s up with that? it’s what i keep coming back to in my mind. i don’t have a good biomechanics explanation for it – if anything, a woman should talk up her man in her female circles to raise her own status – unless it’s some bizarre feminized SWPL inversion of that. and in most cases, you should assume she’s doing it with her girlfriends when you’re not around – cementing a certain amount of contempt for you without your knowledge.

    roissy, anyone? any additional thoughts?

    Like


  72. Lady –

    Airing your dirty laundry over the internet is pretty telling of how your interactions go throughout your life.

    behavior is cyclical.

    Like


  73. She’s trying to make you look like every dumb henpecked guy in a tv commercial — subservient to a woman and needy.

    My first impression from the story was that he pulled a fast one on her and tricked her into giving up some easy poon by learning one cheesy song. It makes her look worse than it makes him. Her = gullible. Him = slick, sneaky fucker. If I was watching this exchanged I’d just give the guy props and steal the same shtick. All he’d need to do is wink to the audience with a shit-eating grin and say “Gets ’em every time….”

    Like


  74. Again, my answers are based on whether this is a one-time offense or not and how well she treated me before the joke.

    Like


  75. maurice –

    i think part of it is the subconscious desire to beta-size a man once a woman has him. it makes him less desirable to women around him (thus cementing that he won’t go about and screw everyone else).

    however, a side/indirect result of that is she grows contemptuous of him.

    Like


  76. I agree with the above who noted that a woman launching an attack of this kind knows exactly what she is doing. There is a deeper problem here that none of the six options will solve.

    You can retain/regain your social status by being witty or self-humored about her stab, but this relationship will soon be over if you leave it at that.

    Like


  77. Mandy, al,
    Yea, our collective Anglo roots certainly does seem to make sense, I’ll grant that. However, it is counter productive given the nature of the gathering.

    And at any rate, look how much energy has been into such a scenario already!-I though the point of Game was to better enjoy life; who wants even more work in theirs?

    That all this manuevering and Cloak & Daggerism is so seemingly central to middle class Whiteness, is fascinating to me, and depressing at the same time to me, because it seems that you guys either are or become very neurotic and filled w/anxiety and angst, trying to figure out the hidden meaning behind everything. Seems like a heck of a way to live-or love.

    WHY do White folks act this way-AT PARTIES for God’s sake? To what end? For who? For what?

    O

    Like


  78. Er, what’s “dick sandwich”?

    Like


  79. O, from your postings, you seem to be a highly desired black male: employed, intelligent, not incarcerated, player.

    If black society has devolved into a harem society, as I believe it has, then heavy shit tests early (to see if you are alpha) and then always allowing you access after would fit right in. Once you’ve proved you’re not a joke, you get pussy, because most of their options are jokes. They won’t fuck up by losing you, since you’ve proven high desireability amongst the many who aren’t.

    non-black girls don’t have the same problem; most men will support a child, be bitched about, so the “walkout” routine rarely occurs, since he can be easily replaced with another beta. A non-black woman knows her man won’t run most of the time, so the contest is now “how much can I make him perform and be my bitch publically” amongst her cuntish friends.

    However, the great downside in the black harem society, and not just for beta males, is what I’ve mentioned before: as have reached the 3rd-4th generation of this now, the inbreeding can seriously be thought of as a problem. Food for thought.

    Like


  80. maurice, Obsidian

    I think the difference between the shit-tests of black versus white women is due to status seeking.

    If there is a shortage of good black men then a woman with a man is already high-status. She tested up front, he passed, and now she can show him off. She has nothing more to do as she has a man. Also she can less afford to lose him, so needs to be more careful.

    White women do not suffer the same shortage. So merely having a man does not raise her status much. She also needs to show she is not in total awe of him.

    Politics probably plays a part, with white women being more likely to feel that snarkiness is “empowerment” (SWPL attitudes). This is on top of the factors discussed by others above.

    [given the history of this case I think it was gentle fun and not worthy of any major response this time]

    Like


  81. Chuck, it is disrepsectful, and a shit test, because she’s making fun of you, not alone, but in front of 1) people you don’t know and 2) people you have a goal to be accepted/impress and 3) a group of people (not just one person).

    Note that you are right: it’s magnitude is not great, but it does cross the line. If a woman does that to you, it’s an immediate flag for you to do something. She’s taking a chink our of your manhood; its a shit test of moderate proportions, but shit test nonetheless.

    Like


  82. Default user and I seem to be in agreement.

    Like


  83. Maurice,
    If what you say is true about SWPLism, my response is the Males in said lifestyle get what they deserve. The very essence of what it means to be a Man is to be direct. That so many Men feel they have to concern themselves w/Cloak & Daggerism offends me.

    Like I said, I’ve been to many parties, Black and White, and its like seeing night and day, really. The White gatherings, its almost as if you can smel the gear oil from so many folk thinking so damn hard on how their going to jockey for some socalled “position”, like they’re playing a kind of social climbing version of Diving For Apples or something. At the Black parties, people laugh, joke, eat food and dance. Simple as that.

    Really, some of you White folk need to lighten up.

    O

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  84. El Guapo

    “Excuse me a moment folks. Sheila, can I talk to you for a moment?”

    The two of you move aside:
    In icy tone with icy gelid eyes, sottovoce: “Diss me ever again like that in public and it will be over so fast your head will spin.”

    Without allowing time for a reply return to the group like nothing happened.

    This is a good way to handle it she’s doing this for reason 3 I gave above.

    It’s the super serious option though. It’s what I might do if I in fact DIDN’T have the group at all behind me at the time for whatever reason.

    If I did have group dynamics that were either favorable or neutral to me at that point, I’d incline towards at least a front of 1 with then heavier doses of both 2 and 4, as described by me above.

    Like


  85. O, Black Spock? ’round in some circles he’s called Tuvac:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuvok#Tuvok.27s_Rank

    I believe his name was a pun on Tupac; the show premiered in 1995, when Tupac was around. Someone on the show liked gangsta rap.

    Like


  86. O,

    Really, some of you White folk need to lighten up.

    Whats with the racial based comments/judgments?

    However, part of me has always been envious of how blacks and filipinos interact. seems pretty much how O describes – laughing, joking, lots of talking. very gregarious.

    Like


  87. 11minutes:

    I agree with the above who noted that a woman launching an attack of this kind knows exactly what she is doing. There is a deeper problem here that none of the six options will solve.

    I wouldn’t say so, because of the trivial nature of the matter. If she makes an insult targeted at some important aspect of your masculinity, then yes, I agree that she’s probably lost respect for you (or never even had much). But joking about something as trivial as playing guitar may well be harmless, and if it’s just a singe isolated incident, getting too worked up over it would be paranoid. Of course, the context and the exact way of delivery also matter; such jokes can be made with varying levels of malicious sneer.

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  88. Obsidain – Indeed, we white folk do need to lighten up in every way (save for pigment – many of us hove none of that to spare).

    Like


  89. “I *was* learning a special song just for you…(to group) she doesn’t realize it’s not about the guitar skills, it’s about being romantic.” (wink at another girl in the group)

    Like


  90. Reframe.

    “You’re such a little brat. Are you potty trained yet?”

    A comeback that is logically related to what she has just said can be effective, but it also shows that you care about showing her up.

    Like


  91. Absolute right thing to do:

    Walk over, get in her face, start wagging head and yelling profanities at her.

    Double Middle Fingers right in her face.

    Kick to gut.

    Stunner. (for you smarks, “By Gawd!”)

    Throw most attractive girl in group over shoulder.

    Impregnate on lawn for neighbors to see.

    Celebrate fatherhood with brewskis, another stunner to ex-girlfriend now slowly coming to.

    Impregnate now passed out ex on law for neighbors to see and videotape.

    Post on internet.

    Like


  92. Maurice, Lurker,
    Yes, I do consider myself a high value Black Male, for the reasons you cited, but for others as well:

    1. I’m quite intelligent, given my particular circumstance

    2. I’m very curious about my world and all the many people in it

    3. I care about how I look

    4. Am a very hard worker

    And, perhaps most importantly,

    5. I can Fuck. Very, very well.

    And if there’s one thing Women understand, regardless of color, is that a competent Cocksman, is hard to find.

    See, for most Women, all they have to do is lay back and spread their legs; my bedside skils are just that-a high refined skill. And I give not to the unworthy, the ungrateful, the uncouth or the greedy.

    So yea, I consider myself as having inherent higher value than most Black Women, simply because Brothas like myself are in such short supply and high demand. You’d be surprised the number of Sistas hard up for the Good Wood.

    But the same thing applies in White America-perhaps even moreso. Being all the things above applies to you guys too, and if it were me my Women would feel most fortunate that they have someone they can introduce to their friends to begin with. The problem with too many White Women is their sense of entitlement, unearned entitlement. If you are a Man who has any degree of success with Women, you are by definition a winner, and you should not countenance for one nanosecond any impertinence on the part of some ungrateful wench. Instead she should be on her knees giving thanks to the Lord while she slobs on your knob, for a fundamentally grounded Fucker is hard to find.

    Far too often you White guys get clowned by White Women because you let them. I would no more take a smidgen of what so many of them do to y’all than a Man in the Moon.

    Again: I have NEVER experienced what Roissy’s writing about here, and you too can say that if you set the freakin’ pace, as the Man, in the relationship-early.

    O

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  93. Roissy dropping some science today.

    Great post.

    Like


  94. O, the dynamics are different. Roissy actually has to teach abotu game because largely our nonblack society has been betasized. teh harem black society taught you originally how to do what you do; since this society does not exist outside the black community, it doesn’t teach us.

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  95. The question of whether to lash out at her or remain quiet is moot.

    It’s like asking how to react when your girlfriend becomes attracted to another guy and starts talking to him for 45 minutes at a party. If that happens, what you do at the time has much less consequence than what you’ve done to up to that point to precipitate that.

    If she’s doing that, you fucked something up along the way.

    If you’ve handled similar tests correctly previously in private–and they definitely come up–a girl won’t just up and start throwing shit like that at you in public.

    You should have trained her correctly on how to treat you.

    Conversely, if she is a little drunk and just said something stupid, you should absolutely blow it off and keep your radar up for things like that in the future.

    Eric Disco

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  96. A woman who intentionally disrespects you in public (I’m not sure the example here is disrespect, it seems pretty slight and innocuous) is low value and should be summarily rejected for an LTR. Why even take the longshot risk that some alpha maneuver will permanently cure her? No pussy is that golden or irreplaceable, really. Hot AND cool women do exist, who would never do this. Not every women shit-tests in this unacceptable way. Continue bottom-trawling in the ocean of women until you find a good one.

    n.b. If my father had followed my own advice, I would probably not exist. This does not affect the truth value of my comment. Roger out.

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  97. Mr. M–

    O[bsidian]: Really, some of you White folk need to lighten up.

    Whats with the racial based comments/judgments?

    What, did you just arrive yesterday?

    No, I’ve seen you around for awhile.

    What, smooth completely lulls and placates you, for approximately forever?

    Like


  98. on June 17, 2009 at 4:10 pm Knowledge Bomb

    Option #37:

    Reply:

    “I play well. If you’re going to be a critic, you might try listening someplace other than underneath the guitar with my cock in your mouth.”

    Like


  99. doug –

    I’m aware of O’s propensity to turning a thread to a race-based issue. I also admit i have a hard time wanting to read his posts due to format/structure; thus, i definitely don’t read everything he says.

    I guess, his one-liner comment about whites annoyed me, as do most race-based comments when taken severely out of context.

    or maybe, just when someone tries to make it a race/gender issue when it really is not.

    Like


  100. [email protected] now that’s the nuclear option.

    @obs – yah, you are right. that’s why i generally like hanging out with black people. non-SWPL whites, though, are more like that – less interested in preening intellectual one-upsmanship than in just having a good time

    @mr.m – doesn’t really follow. she wants to beta-tize him, tame him, for *herself*, but why would she diss him to her girlfriends? implying he’s a loser/bad lover/whatever, and she couldn’t do any better? i am clearly imprisoned by male thinking here, because i don’t get this at all even though it’s a clearly widespread, damaging sort of female behavior.

    Like


  101. I reject the notion of a “one format” way of life. The reality is that Game will change depending on the racial contexts involved. I am interested in exploring said dynamics. If you aren’t, speed on to something else.

    O

    Like


  102. For some odd reason, guitar playing is a very sensitive topic for many bachelors, especially those with more rudimentary skills, who also tend to own multiple guitars. Pupu once received a more violent version of #5, after asking an ex in private, while listening to a nice Flamingo guitar CD, why he couldn’t play like those guys. Another sensitive topic is about hair.

    Guitar and hair — who would have guessed.

    Like


  103. maurice –

    my theory is it is the beta-tizing combined with feminism you-go-grrl.

    many women want to FEEL independent, thus insulting their man makes them feel so. maybe throw in a little, i want to feel like my opinions/thoughts matter. specifically, that they are heard loud and clear… “how dare you not do exactly what i wanted” .

    personally, i think public chastising of your sig other is a greater sign of lack of respect/tact, which is more of a western cultural problem.

    Like


  104. You’ve already survived her previous barrage of shit-tests, including the one that very night of getting along with her friends. But with women the testing never ends. So she throws another one your way: you’re put on the spot in front of strangers. Very high intensity test. How will you react?

    With women, a communication’s meaning is not determined by her intention–it’s futile to speculate whether she’s obtuse or malevolent or both or neither. She probably doesn’t know herself. The meaning of a woman’s communication is determined by the response to it. It’s like a circuit closing…the other end has to be there for the exchange to even exist.

    So any of the responses will work if they indicate that you have what real men always do have: grace under pressure. A response that shows grace under pressure will determine the meaning of her test: she will have given you an opportunity to demonstrate to her and to her entire social circle your utter self-possession, wit, dominance, and social smarts. It’ll be like she’s done you a favour!

    So…the temper ones are out. Same with just walking. That is just collapse in the face of a challenge. 1, 4 and 6 and any variation of those is fine. But of course, the guy using them has to have precisely what the test was testing: grace under pressure. If he has that, any of those responses will work wonders precisely because they will have been delivered with g u p.

    And then…it will be time for the next test. Oh well. These things go way back…and they will never stop. Alpha is a status that needs always to be defended, always to be demonstrated, always to be proved.

    Oh well. Comes with the territory.

    Like


  105. @obs – “on her knees giving thanks to the Lord while she slobs on your knob”. great image. very inspired.

    @mr.m, doug – obs usually talks about race in the context of game. not always, but usually. when he does, there are usually pretty good insights to be had about male-female dynamics even for those who are not intersted in black women, or wehatever. in this case, it was about how male scarcity and/or lack of SWPL bullshit would have changed the scenario roissy described. subtract out the words “black” and “white” and think about it that way – the ways that the subculture of black america differs from upper-class SWPL america.

    Like


  106. Everyone should read that Atlantic article I posted.

    It is something that Roissy could really sink his teeth into.

    Short summary: SWPL NPR reporter gives five page rant about how all marriages are terrible because she had an affair, and therefore her marriage is ending and ergo so should yours.

    Like


  107. 1,4 or 6. Everything else is a tool move. Nuke the pussy from orbit? More like, “look like an insecure tool.” Imagine if a chick did that because you publicly insulted her cooking or whatever. She’d look like an insecure nutbag.

    Besides; anyone who woos a chick with cheesy guitar deserves to be made fun of. I woo them with my soulful bagpipe playing.

    Like


  108. #1 or #4 are good. I would use neither. Here’s what I’d say:

    [Shrugs shoulders] “Eh, I learned enough guitar to get what I wanted. It worked, too, didn’t it?” Then I would smirk, look my girl in the eye, and wink.

    She’d blush and slightly reel back. The guys and girls would howl: “Oh, you dog!”

    The girlfriend would wonder, “Is sex all he wants? What is wrong with me? Am I that easy? Am I a slut?”

    I’d then pull my girl in close to me, and give her a reassuring squeeze.

    An an alpha, I’d both establish my dominance by making an overt sexual reference; I’d show my confidence by giving a nice squeeze to show her that it’s all good fun. Of course, she’d be left wondering what my true motives are. Which is good.

    You want to keep your girlfriend wondering about you. Otherwise, they get bored.

    Like


  109. on June 17, 2009 at 4:37 pm Marcus Aureliette

    Well, I realize female opinions are taken with mere grains of salt around here, but I’d vote for #4, far and away above the rest. Great comic timing & delivery are required (and are not hard to pick up if you don’t already have them), but it delivers the message loud and clear without grinding the party atmosphere to a halt.

    I’d never insult a guy I was dating, of course, and I’m not sure this particular example is as egregious as some are making it out to be — it could just as easily be ham-handed teasing on her part — but assuming for one moment that I trangressed, even unwittingly: #4 would be the one to best get the point across.

    I’d employ the same sort of retort if a guy I dated saw fit to put me down in public, too.

    Like


  110. For some odd reason, guitar playing is a very sensitive topic for many bachelors, especially those with more rudimentary skills, who also tend to own multiple guitars. Pupu once received a more violent version of #5, after asking an ex in private, while listening to a nice Flamingo guitar CD, why he couldn’t play like those guys. Another sensitive topic is about hair.

    Guitar and hair — who would have guessed.

    wait…serious question here, but is THAT the reason why this scenario makes guys here so mad? Because guitar playing means so much more to white guys? Maybe that’s why I don’t see it as being such a big deal but you guys do. Maybe a black equivalent would be my girl saying I’m a bad dancer? Because that would bother me but the guitar thing I’d shrug off.

    Like


  111. Thanks, Maurice.

    And while I’m on the point the White Men here-who, let’s face it, ARE indeed part and parcel of the SWPLosphere, needs to seriously ask themselves: why am I doing this to myself? If I have to think about stuff like this at parties and the like, maybe I need to consider going elsewhere to find other Women to spend my time with.

    That’s certainly how I would approach it.

    I mean really, what’s all the intellectual masturbation about here? Isn’t it clearly counter productive? Why can’t she/you just have a good time? What am I missing here?

    O

    Like


  112. Default User

    If there is a shortage of good black men then a woman with a man is already high-status. She tested up front, he passed, and now she can show him off. She has nothing more to do as she has a man. Also she can less afford to lose him, so needs to be more careful.

    White women do not suffer the same shortage. So merely having a man does not raise her status much. She also needs to show she is not in total awe of him.

    Yes. There’s a lot to this.

    Although alphas are scare among hot white girls as well.

    First I think straight up, as PA implies, that Obsidian is fronting some about never having seen this in black circles.

    Second though I think the preeminent and secure Lion King among her friends dynamic is much less likely to occur in black (or to a lesser extent) black society.

    Not because the black guy is not going to seem Lion King to his woman. Rather because the house party is likely to be more nakedly competitive. It’s a more nakedly dog eat dog world. Other girls will be actively trying to peel him off if she does anything at all to irritate him, or even if she doesn’t. Competing guys will be looking to jump into any wedge, even a play wedge she opens up, and try to widen it. Not sayin that would work but am saying the black gf is likely to feel her playing is likely to lead to unpleasantness or runs that real danger.

    As well, black girls have just a bit of a rep for being obnoxious and aggressive, as opposed to naturally and easily being loyal soldiers behind their man. So if they do feel very attached, that’s what they’re gonna want to proudly display, not how independent they can be. Finally, there isn’t the same flavor of feminist dynamic running, where white girls feel they should show how independent they can be, even when firmly attached. Everyone knows how independent black women can be, and usually are. (Esp. as they get a bit older.)

    Like


  113. O

    WHY do White folks act this way-AT PARTIES for God’s sake? To what end? For who? For what?

    I wish I could explain why. All I can say is we are socialized early on to behave like this in order to attain social status. I remember it very clearly and unhappily being a daily aspect of middle school life. Eat or be eaten I suppose.

    I agree this is not really productive or enjoyable social behavior.

    Do white men do this to each other or to women? I always thought it was largely a female-female or female to male phenomenon?

    And I never noticed it was exclusively a white thing, I thought it was a people thing.

    This may go a long way to explain difficulties blacks and whites have in relating to each other – we aren’t speaking the same social language. I have always had a really hard time getting along with black women in particular because I though they were rude. Looking back, it was probably there directness I misunderstood. And they were never fans of me in return – I guess it was my “cloak and dagger”, dishonest behavior they see as neurosis in their eyes?

    Like


  114. Link –

    Interesting how she mentions that women prefer serial monogamy. Averages of 4 years in duration.

    All in all, the article pretty much agrees with where roissy/various bloggers picture western society heading…

    down the shithole.

    Like


  115. black women aren’t difficult to get with. It’s finding one you want to get with that is difficult.

    Like


  116. it all depends on the tone she uses when she says it. 9 times out of 10 that’s just a good-natured teasing…

    however, if she says it nastily, that’s a different story altogether.

    Like


  117. A death stare takes too long to get your message across, and it communicates discomfort. Give her a pitying, off-put look with a raised eyebrow, and then proceed to change the subject just before she reacts.

    Like


  118. The Atlantic articles proves a bunch of things:

    1) It is women who want divorce.

    2) Women are whores—the author was the cheater.

    3) Women encourage other women to divorce.

    4) Women never take the blame for sexlessness (“he told me I was fat” is mentioned once, and never again, always just complaining about marriage in general)

    5) The man in the author’s tale “rent his hair” and yet still allowed her to make the choice to divorce, instead of him slapping her unconscious and walking out.

    The best marriages are ones where the couple holds themselves above the kids. I know many happy grandmothers for whom “the husband” was way more important than her kids. The current elevation of child-over-parent allows for wives to degrade the husband in honor of her overachieving SWPL brats.

    Like


  119. My husband always acts like everything is perfect in front of anyone we are talking to and harshly dresses me down for any behavioral slight or infraction when we are alone. Consequently I’m pretty good about watching my p’s and q’s in public.

    The only problem with this approach is sometimes I am genuinely unaware I have offended and when he hits me with it later I am stunned and confused, which makes me defensive and leads to a fight.

    caveat: i NEVER insult him or put him down in public, normally my infractions are along the lines of being too warm or friendly to other males, in his eyes

    Like


  120. Obsidian,

    Coming back to pure discussion of Game :

    1) In addition to the Kama Sutra (which has been tainted by too much SWPL corruption), check out something called the Ananga Ranga. Very few outside India know about it, and it might be hard to get a book about it. Here is on-line text, though.

    2) Approaches : How do you do daygame approaches? Do you approach only black women, or all types? What openers do you use? How do you get out of ebbs in confidence?

    Like


  121. All I can say is we are socialized early on to behave like this in order to attain social status

    White people do tend to be pretentious status whores. Whether it’s socialization or genes or both, I am not competent to say.

    Like


  122. Doug,
    Why would I lie about what I’ve witnessed at Black parties, etc? What am I getting out of it?

    What I’m telling you I’ve seen and experienced, is real. I’ve seen a lot of counter productive stuff at Black parties, to be sure, perhaps the most common being arguments and straight up fights between Black Women over a guy, closely followed by the reverse. But a Cold War style thing like so many of you White folks do, nah.

    O

    Like


  123. @marcus aureliette

    re-read patrickH’s comment. Girls don’t even know they are doing it, it simply happens. it is as typical of the female sex as the boner is for the male sex

    Like


  124. Lurker,

    It get’s better. Here’s another article by the same writer.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200703/loh-libido

    Like


  125. Mike–

    [Shrugs shoulders] “Eh, I learned enough guitar to get what I wanted. It worked, too, didn’t it?” Then I would smirk, look my girl in the eye, and wink.

    She’d blush and slightly reel back. The guys and girls would howl: “Oh, you dog!”

    Yuup. Good approach, well delivered.

    Great minds think alike.

    Like


  126. I would not laugh. No anger, just treat it like any other unfunny joke. If they laughed hard, I would say something like, “Ever since I heard that song, I knew I wanted to play it. It’s why I bought my guitar.” Then continue with whatever the conversation was before she mentioned it, and act as if what she said was off-topic and jarring, and I was saving her with my social grace. If it was a mild, polite laugh, I would just stay not laughing, but otherwise happy.

    Then I would wait until the next time I had the floor and my drink was empty (I would make sure these both happen soon). I would smile while I ask her to get me a drink in the middle of whatever I was saying, and then keep talking to the group.

    If she does it happily, it means her comment was actually a compliment about my charm.

    If she does it unhappily, I would say something after she came back to re-frame her unhappiness – “Thanks babe, I really appreciate it,” smile and ignore her for a while. The goal is to highlight her cattiness – if you play the role of superior, gentle, magnanimous boyfriend, and she plays the role of shrew, her friends will notice.

    If she said no, I would keep smiling while I say, “Okay, I’ll get one after I’m done with this,” and then I would treat her like an AMOG for the rest of the night – lots of dominant touching, etc.

    Like


  127. I think at black parties the problem with the conflicts there is that it’s not subtle enough. But that’s not always a good thing either. At the same time though it’s still way better than the whole “Was that an insult or not?” internal second guessing you have to do with white people. At least the black way, while crass and crude, is pleasantly unambiguous.

    Like


  128. I don’t really feel like that joke is that big of a deal. It might have just been a misinterpreted way of trying to include the guy into her circle of friends, by loosening everyone up and showing that it’s okay to joke around with him and that he’s not a stiff. I think the only good options here are #1 and #4. If the guy was honestly that insulted then he’s kind of being a pansy and can talk about it in the car. The other options are over the top and dramatic.

    Like


  129. kim, it’s just that kind of totally inability to conceive of the male ego and the dominant male’s drive to be admired; to have a woman who is an asset to his reputation and not a detractor that is destroying the relationship between the sexes.

    she isn’t insulting his guitar playing, she is deliberately attempting to lower his status in a mixed group of males and females. there is no way to defend this, there is no justification for the comment.

    turn it around–let’s say you saw a man and a party making a few derogatory comments about his wife’s weight, or cooking–nothing too heavy, but definitely there, would you think it was no big deal? somehow i doubt it

    Like


  130. Obsidian–

    What I’m telling you I’ve seen and experienced, is real. I’ve seen a lot of counter productive stuff at Black parties, to be sure, perhaps the most common being arguments and straight up fights between Black Women over a guy, closely followed by the reverse. But a Cold War style thing like so many of you White folks do, nah.

    You will note Obsidian, if you reread the comment of mine that your refer to, that this later is what I spent the great bulk of the comment talking about. I agreed with you that there seems to be significant cultural/racial differences here.

    I did indicate that I suspected you’d exaggerated some. But that was the lesser point, by far.

    Like


  131. kim, any woman who insults her man in any way in front of others deserves to be put in her place.

    respect your man, woman.

    Like


  132. “White people do tend to be pretentious status whores. Whether it’s socialization or genes or both, I am not competent to say.”

    A lot of it is “Look at me! I’m not a stupid redneck!”

    Like


  133. dana wins points for the taken-lady-most-guys-would-kill-for.

    Like


  134. @kim

    probably you and dana already have done sthg similar, maybe many times before. Once alone, I would call her on that and judge her depending on the answer.

    If the answer follows Dana, it is OK. She was simply acting like women act, and justifying why men who bang women call them childish.

    If the answer is yours, game over. I’ll try to enjoy the sex, but the relationship won’t progress from then. your answer is a major red alert.

    Like


  135. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandra_Tsing_Loh

    The author of the couple of articles linked previously.

    Like


  136. lurker–

    kim, any woman who insults her man in any way in front of others deserves to be put in her place.

    Yes.

    But what she deserves and what is most effective are not always the same thing.

    As well your initial statement lacks subtlety. Intelligent white society is full of subtlety.

    You must have some to navigate same well.

    Like


  137. Yeah, as a non-guitar playing white guy, I have to approach this through the eyes of the liberal arts major, I guess. Nonetheless, teasing the alpha lion is one thing, but using the word “sucks” is another. I can’t think of having been publicly accused at sucking at anything (OTOH, if it were a feminine act, like house cleaning, then that’s just gf sharing personality traits).

    I agree with disco, this is an affront, similar to a 45 minute flirt session (i.e., not flirting to raise jealousy but something sinister). She insulted you in front of her friends, as they are getting to know you. Maybe the nuke option is the way to go. Why should you let her grease her own social skids at her expense. These aren’t your friends, their discomfort would be her fault.

    Like


  138. anyway, from Kim’s point of view, the man failed the ultimate shit test once he complained when they were alone. Once you call the girl and she gives Kim’s answer, it is as if you failed the original shit test.

    do you realize Kim, the amount of alphaness you are requiring from the man? he must not only give a creative answer, but act as if it wasn’t a big deal at all.

    Like


  139. kim–

    I hear you and it seems to me we’re pretty much in synch on this.

    Tell me.

    What if any of the things i’ve said on this thread you disagree with, or would shade differently?

    Like


  140. ty lurker–i will add for the record that my husband runs almost nonstop LTR game on me a la David from Hawaii AND i know he is doing it, I know it even more since I’ve been reading this blog. The only aspects of game he doesn’t employ are ones involving making me believe he would cheat or stray, because i would unequivocally leave him over that and he knows it–he substitutes making it clear that he loves me more than anything and wants to stay forever but wouldn’t hesitate to walk if i became disrespectful, cunty or whorish. the key is he makes me GENUINELY feel he would do this with deep regret and not because he isn’t committed to me–but because there are simply some behaviors in a wife he will not tolerate–period, even if it meant depriving himself of every aspect of her he desired.

    I can see point by point what he’s doing and why–and it STILL works.

    Like


  141. #4 is best, with a modification a bit more comical, like “Hey, I know one song, you know how to cook one thing, it’s comparable”. One choice that does not appear to be there is to start flirting with other women at the party.

    So #4 + other flirting.

    Like


  142. Dana,

    “turn it around–let’s say you saw a man and a party making a few derogatory comments about his wife’s weight, or cooking–nothing too heavy, but definitely there, would you think it was no big deal? somehow i doubt it”

    Cooking I would think is no big deal…some people are good at cooking, some people are good at playing the guitar, and some arent…that’s a minor detail in someone’s life. Making fun of someone’s weight is different though. If the girl above made fun of this guy’s weight, hairline, big ears, small penis etc. etc. then I could see how the above options are applicable. Making fun of someone’s guitar playing who isn’t even an actual guitar player but just learned one song isn’t really that insulting.

    I don’t think that she is trying to lower his status in a group, why would a girl want a boyfriend who her group of friends thinks is a loser? Friends tease friends all the time…I honestly think she was probably trying to include her boyfriend into her circle of friends by making him feel included. Contextually the comment doesn’t seem like it was made in a nasty way, it seems like it was made in a lighthearted tone.

    Like


  143. kim, why is it, do you think, that every male here sees it as a deliberate attempt to lower his status and you don’t? i am genuinely asking, no snark.

    Like


  144. PA I’ve even seen Chic Noir do some of that subtle instigatin’ female stuff here on oc Are you saying that black chicks are NEVER subtle, duplicitous, backstabbing, indirect, and snakelike? I’ve seen Chic Noir do this tons of times here, like any good red-blooded femalecasion.

    Please give me an example PA. I am always very direct. There is nothing underhanded about what I post here.

    Ovid Am I just imagining things,or do classically good-looking white guys (with glasses) attract Black girls despite any other shortcommings?
    Different people like different things. I would imagine blk girls are looking at you because you look like the type who would make a good husband/boyfriend or your rather good-looking.
    Quick question Ovid that may explain why you go so much attention from black women… Do you feel comfortable and get along with blk people fairly well?

    a-bax- Black women have WAY more testosterone, on average, than white women. They had stronger libidos as a result of it….and they are more direct and have louder mouths (when they do speak out) because of it.
    What you describe is cultural more than genetic. Have you been around West African women from the continent? What about East African women? You don’t often the loud mouth from them. The stronger libidos is a myth.
    Fun fact: The average blk folk believes just the opposite about libido and sexual perversion.

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  145. kim, any woman who insults her man in any way in front of others deserves to be put in her place

    men have not that many ways to “put women in their places” anymore, besides leaving them. Anyway, she behaved in a way almost any women would.

    Like


  146. dana –

    your husband sounds like he has sound rules in place – not to be bent or broken. this is much harder to practice than to preach.

    Like


  147. also, to what end would a woman make a comment like that about her man or anyone other than to lower their status in front of others? i can’t think of one

    Like


  148. Dana, your last statement reminds me of something I heard once:

    “just because you know why you want to fuck doesn’t make you immune to cleavage.”

    Like


  149. on June 17, 2009 at 5:24 pm SmartyJones

    Didn’t read the comments but going with my first reaction. Humor tinged with alpha.

    I would just say, yeah it’s true that’s the only song I know how to play but I’ve played it for six different girls before.

    They all loved it. And so did you. So it makes up for the 20 minutes that I spent teaching it.

    I would say it with a smile all the way.

    At the end, I would pause, smile and staring right at her say “works every time.”

    Like


  150. O:

    “Why can’t she/you just have a good time?”

    earlier you said you’d give her a stone cold staredown…that’s not keeping in the spirit of having a good time…in my experience, it’s black men and women that get ass-hurt over small transgressions similar to the guitar dig compared to whites…with black men, everything is about respect/disrespect. whites aren’t as caught up in that, and they wouldn’t make the stupid move of getting upset over a harmless taunt.

    Like


  151. Sidenote: I bet you’ll love this article.

    50plus year old women looking for Mister Perfect.
    http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31412631/ns/today_relationships/

    Beyond Delusional

    Like


  152. Mr. M

    He was burned by his 16 year old babymomma at 21 and never looked back. (long time ago)

    he will never brook male friends, secret phone calls and “you don’t own me” again, and as a woman who was born wanting to be owned i say OK!

    Like


  153. dana can’t be real. I’m guessing a gay man in disguise, creating a fantasy woman.

    or else dana’s a time traveller from the 50’s.

    Women are like lawn darts; all the good ones were made in the 50’s.

    Like


  154. but she didn’t tease him on teaseable issues…

    Acceptable:

    Joe made me a great dinner. He’s a great cook, but he sucks at cleaning up afterwords…that’s why we’re a great match.

    Bad:

    Joe tried to make me pizza and burned everything because he sucks at it. I love how much he sucks.

    Like


  155. dana:

    your husband sounds like an insecure girl.

    Like


  156. it is not a deliberate attempt to lower the man’s status. it is the childish aspect of the female sex revealing itself. It is no more deliberate than a child touching boiling water is an attempt of burning himself. Women simply don’t know they are doing that

    once the guy fails the first time, she’ll start doing it partially on purpose (now trying to diminish him), partly instinctively.

    Like


  157. dana –

    curious, how does your husband respond to a fight that you start?

    Like


  158. lurker i can assure you i am real. i am older (39), a weirdo female objectivist outlier and hbd enthusiast. i have also posted on half sigma and gotten in frequent altercations with larry auster about evolution (if you go to vfr and plug “dana evolution” into his search field you can see). if you know anything about ayn rand you know she completely advocated female submission to a dominant male the woman admires.

    Like


  159. gig, when it comes to social situations, women are acutely aware of everything they do.

    This was a deliberate shit test. As they all are.

    Like


  160. dana, definitely true on rand. that’s one more reason to love Atlas Shrugged. She was one kinky submissive bitch.

    however, she did cheat on her husband.

    Like


  161. Ayn rand’s text about why she would never vote, or accept the nomination for, a female presidential candidate, is the only sociological/political text that ever gave me a boner

    Like


  162. @lurker

    I still think you are underestimating the irrational/instinctive/childish components of women’s personalities.

    women will shit test without knowing they are shit testing, until you fail the first time

    Like


  163. mr m, to be truthful, i am not a big drama queen and fight starter, which is way our marriage works the way it does. unlike most modern women i don’t fight him for dominance in the realms that matter to him, and he allows me to maintain dominance in my realms–he is very stubborn , strong willed and self directed, i suspect some aspergers syndrome and his part, and my own. if i try to wheedle or whine he shuts me down verbally. i mostly have to broach any concerns i have post coitus or very directly and calmly.

    lurker, there is nothing 50s about it. i am an educated opinionated jewgirl with a law degree, not some meek shiksa white wino, its just for some reason my high T has led me to understand and identify with men, instead of fighting them-i don’t know why that is

    Like


  164. @doug

    I read your other comments from this thread and agree with them, especially about the 3 reasons and how there is no evidence that supports it being an example of the last 2 reasons. I also thought the way you would handle the situation is good. The combination of 1 and 4 is definitely the appropriate way to handle it. Honestly, if my boyfriend did any of the other reasons I’d not only be embarrassed of him, but I’d also probably leave him for not having any sense of humor and not being able to take a lighthearted joke.

    @gig

    I’m not expecting a creative answer. If he was honestly hurt by it and told me later in private, but not in a super beta way, just like “hey, I’d appreciate if you didn’t say things like that in front of your friends who I just met” then that would be fine. If he acted super pissed about it I’d be curious as to why his self-esteem is so low that a slight comment about guitar playing would put him into such a state.

    @dana

    It actually seems like not everyone DOES see it as an attempt to lower the guy’s status. As I stated in my response earlier, I felt like this was the girl’s attempt to include her boyfriend into her circle of friends by some playful teasing to show he has a sense of humor and doesn’t take himself too seriously. I don’t know why a girl would want to lower her boyfriend’s status like that unless it was reasons 2 and 3 from doug’s list of hypothetical reasons for her saying that, but given the situation, those don’t seem applicable.

    Like


  165. gig / lurker –

    have to side with gig on this one. I think most women truly do not consciously know why they do such things, at least not in a rational and calculating sense.

    …which is also when you call them on it, there is genuine disbelief or the inability to “see the other perspective.”

    Like


  166. maurice–

    Roissy: “Many girls are prone to this sort of behavior at social events, catapulting their own status and greasing their acceptance into the group on the backs of their hapless boyfriends. A woman knows she can engender female solidarity through the telling of humiliating tales about her lover.”

    this is absolutely true, in my opinion, and larger than the guitar story here.

    what’s up with that? it’s what i keep coming back to in my mind. i don’t have a good biomechanics explanation for it – if anything, a woman should talk up her man in her female circles to raise her own status – unless it’s some bizarre feminized SWPL inversion of that. and in most cases, you should assume she’s doing it with her girlfriends when you’re not around – cementing a certain amount of contempt for you without your knowledge.

    roissy, anyone? any additional thoughts?

    I feel like I’ve completely answered this in what I’ve already posted on this thread, but I guess not. Guess I’ll try again.

    a woman should talk up her man in her female circles to raise her own status

    What if she feels she doesn’t need to, that your status is self evident, or she’s already talked it up plenty? Then what she can do that most establishes her own status is showing how much you’re attracted to her. Especially in the current feminist / independent woman white zeitgeist, that will often involve at least a little display of her getting away with things with you.

    Unfortunately for many women in this zeitgeist she will often be tempted to ride on your back in this fashion too far, in a way that does start to diminish you, if you don’t restrain her. Hence some threat from Roissy options 2 and 4 above, as I answered previously.

    and in most cases, you should assume she’s doing it with her girlfriends when you’re not around – cementing a certain amount of contempt for you without your knowledge.

    This is frequent female behavior, especially privileged white feminist empowered and taking way too much for granted, behavior. It is also utterly unacceptable, and unforgivable if continued past warning.

    This is such a bad feminist trope in our current culture that I think this needs explicit direct heading off. Say e.g.:

    “If I hear you’ve been talking shit about me with your girlfriends, even “in fun”, you are going to be on very shaky ground with me. Loyalty is essential if I’m going to remain attracted to my girl.

    I can’t stand it that girls so often do that in our current feminist entitled misandrous American culture, and I for one am not having it. It’s corrosive and destructive of trust. My trust for you. I don’t do that about you with my male friends and I expect the same from you. Now you know.”

    Like


  167. Kim

    a false modesty display of humility is something women do to elevate their own status in a group of females. it is not something a loving female companion should try to force on the male who’s permanent affections she is trying to win

    Like


  168. Pupu agrees with Kim. As a matter a fact, a joke like that could easily increase the guy’s appeal among the ladies. Let’s face it, guyz, we galz don’t care that much about how well you play a guitar unless, you are Carlos Santana, or something like that. We do care though that someone is daring enough to play a sweet song just for us– the fact that you can only play one song makes it more endearing in our hearts.

    Like


  169. With regards to the shit test, which is what the cut was, I have a different opinion on why these things exist. To begin, I think that Anglo cultures (if not White as a whole) value cleverness, hence the indirect stuff that Obsidian is puzzling over.

    With regards to the thing itself, if it was just a joke, it was a joke at your expense. This is a girl seeing what she can get away with: teasing as a test. With enough of this crap not called out, she loses respect and the spite begins to flow. Cut it off early, she will stop it if she’s not a cunt to the core.

    Like


  170. dana –

    hm. no fights resulting from nagging or anything? come now, you can’t pretend to be that aloof!

    Like


  171. @doug

    imagine that in a circle of G20 presidents, Michele Obama comes and says exactly that guitar stuff about Obama. He is the lion king of all lion kings. Any man who is president of the US by the Democratic Party instantly becomes the alpha of all alphas on Earth.

    if Obama doesn’t answer like #1 or #4, everyone will have the measure of him. Putin can bomb Georgia, China can dump the dollar, Brazil can tax foreign hot money, Goldman Sachs can raid the US taxpayer, and the alpha females of the world, like Victoria’s Secret angels would instantly degrade Obama to beta status

    Like


  172. @ Lurker

    Also mix in the following:

    1. hand cup to the ear
    2. double-bi pose with a huge smirk

    The frenzied crowd will provide social proof.

    Procreate all you want for the rest of the night.

    Like


  173. mr. m, no–there was a misunderstanding as to the definition of “starting fights” i thought you meant haranguing him about everything he does wrong , berating him or asking him if i look fat or if another girl is pretty and then getting “mad” at him for it. i generally have stopped “nagging” him because it isn’t fruitful. he has a very unsatisfying reaction to any attempt to budge him from his course, he gets very serious and firmly tells me he will do what i am “nagging” him to do when he gets to it and not one second sooner or that i can do it myself. there really is no moving him.

    Like


  174. dana,

    I really don’t think any of this has to do with status. I didn’t know people were not allowed to joke around with eachother anymore. Maybe it’s because I’m 21 and I’m looking at this from that perspective, but I don’t see any sort of evil status destruction plan by this girl at all.

    Like


  175. This has been a totally fascinating read. Not just the blog, but all the comments from so many different viewpoints and styles.

    I don’t see her comment as being necessarily insulting. She’s communicating to the people around her that she is desirable because someone as *insert complimentary adjective to your liking here* put effort into getting her into bed. The men around who are idiots will think that you’re pussywhipped, but the men who have half a clue will realize the minimal effort that learning the song took and the predictable results. The girls will want that type of attention as well, and be envious of their friend, looking to their own man (men?) as lacking because they certainly didn’t do that. So then you’re more desirable. Win.

    Or, sure, she could have meant it as insulting.

    So your chick dissed you in public. Options 2, 3, and 5 make you look like a sensitive little bitch who just can’t hack it. Moody temperamental, you just flew off the handle because you can’t take a joke. Now she’s embarassed (not just because of what you just did, but because she brought a bitch to the party as her date) and your desirability is gone down because you’ve just demonstrated that your ego can’t take teasing.

    I’ve had this happen to me a couple of times. It’s annoying. The guy storms off/explodes/expresses extreme displeasure/takes his ball and goes home and you’re left wondering why you found him attractive in the first place, and why you never noticed that obvious damage he has.

    #1 and #6 is boring. You’ve just illustrated you don’t have the wit to come up with something snarky and fun. You Can’t Play. Useless and disappointing.

    #4 is something, I suppose. Humorous, but not really worth more than a chuckle. Throw a hint (or a lot) of sex in there, like other commenters have suggested. Get some playful banter going, show that you’re comfortable, intelligent, relaxed, sexual, and quite confident with yourself and your abilities (or lack thereof, in case of the guitar playing).

    Really, one shouldn’t take this so seriously. When I’m sleeping with someone, or looking to start sleeping with someone, banter (or playful dissing) is a way I establish if someone’s worth sleeping with. Do they have a brain? Are they confident? Can they hold their own? Can they keep a natural flow? Will they result to flat out insults because they can’t play? Hell, half the fun is getting a guy riled up to the point of him dragging you into the next room and bending you over a piece of furniture while the party is going on.

    Like


  176. @link-mr.m re atlantic article: what a horrifying, fucked-up cunt. what horrifying, fucked-up girlfriends. your husbands, evidently stand-up decent guys, don’t want to have sex with you because … you’re pushing 50. your looks are gone. plus you’re entitled, overeducated, abrasive cunts. what did you expect? also, the factoid that explains all the others was that her deepest childhood wish was that her father would catch on fire. how’s that for a proper respect for the male role. seriously, it made me sick and angry just to read it.

    Like


  177. nwo, should we really confuse them with a Hogan and Austin mix?

    I think going for rebel-hero-heel and classic-babyface in the same move is daunting for their psyches.

    if you want to combine personas, better to add the following:

    1. Cock eyebrow after stunner.
    2. Before you pick up attractive girl, yell: “What’s your name?” (smack, toss) “It DOESN’T MATTER WHAT YOUR NAME IS!”
    3. Plant her on the lawn with a Rock Bottom before impregnating.

    It’s not nuke the pussy. it’s alpha down two pussies.

    Like


  178. poetry,
    The point isn’t to be funny or to banter. The point is to be alpha. The object is to create scarcity, social value, and be something more than a run of mill guy. So, fun options like 4 or your description of brains, confidence is one thing, but not the dangerous, I can leave you thing to do.

    Then you dismiss the nuke and confront options even though you end with this reversal, “half the fun is getting a guy riled up to the point of him dragging you into the next room and bending you over a piece of furniture while the party is going on.” Or maybe you are suggesting option 7?

    Like


  179. personal story

    I hate onion in food. In family meetings, I would avoid food with onion, or ask for the same dish be made with and without onion. it was possible since another cousin hate donion

    Anyway, around 10 people around the table, each serving himself, aunts, my grandmother, my mother, cousins (both male and feamle), and in front of everyone else, my mother , says loudly, “hey [aunt X], don’t take from that bow, it’s gig’s bow since gig doesn’t eat onion”, and the table turns at me. Aunt X decides to make matters even more interesting, and says also loudly, “oh yeah, I forgot, gig doesn’t eat onion”

    table looks at me, or at least expects an answer, and I say “sorry, but I have good taste”. the answer worked an the table laughed. But I still got shit tested by my mother in front of my grandmother.

    Like


  180. the first line should read “I hated onion in food”. I evolved. or got bad taste

    Like


  181. kim, why is it, do you think, that every male here sees it as a deliberate attempt to lower his status and you don’t? i am genuinely asking, no snark.

    Not every male. Me, Chuck and a few others don’t seem to for example.

    Like


  182. What would Vladimir Putin do? Aka, one of the most alpha heads of state out there.

    #1 Without a doubt.

    It’s just a small neg, no need to take it personal.

    Like


  183. how is that a shit test? seriously? she went to the effort to make it special for you, and then told someone else not to eat what she made just for you? really?

    Like


  184. lurker,

    Naw that would be rudy-pooh, prefer the following public service announcement:

    “I’m just too big, too talented, too sexy and just TOO SWEET “

    Like


  185. @doug – hmmm. so you’re saying when a girl disses/shit tests her man in public, she does it to display her own superior status? that a guy is so into her that she can make him put up with her shit and jump through her hoops? if true, i can see how this might be an extension of power-plays within the relationship – unhealthy ones, and more so if they spill out.

    this wouldn’t explain why she would shit-talk him behind his back, though. and that does happen a lot. maybe the reason for that is simpler – just female bonding, the same way we will complain about our girlfriends when they’re not around. comparing notes, etc.

    i’m still not convinced that’s all there is to it, but it’s plausible.

    Like


  186. there was a whole mindset, that now I recognize as true, that people who doesn’t eat [x] are freaks, specially children who insisted so. they were openly calling me a freak in front of everyone else. it was an unspoken thing that the onion-hating freaks ate from separate bowls. there was morethan enough in the bow for the pair of onion-hating boys and the lazy aunt. there was absolutely no need to remind everyone else of our freakish choice, besides women’s instinctively need to shit test

    now, the most important event in the night starts. the quarter-finals of the libertadores cup

    Like


  187. p.s. – i’m with those that thought this was really no big deal, a minor shit test at best, and nothing to get that upset about because women run shit tests all the time – it’s in their nature. my response to doug was on a broader question of doing it in public, pointedly and unnecessarily. does that have some different psychological motivation than a generic shit-test.

    Like


  188. on June 17, 2009 at 6:23 pm HUNGRY HUNGRY HIPPOS YO

    I pick 3, it just feels like the natural thing to do, I wouldn’t have to think about it. I think it’s just the easiest way to react without refusing to react and potentially losing some alpha cred. Something like “you really think highly of yourself if you think I’d waste my time learning one song just for you, how cute.” Might be good, but it comes off as too hostile perhaps, I’d just go with 3.

    Like


  189. Joe–

    Dana: kim, why is it, do you think, that every male here sees it as a deliberate attempt to lower his status and you don’t? i am genuinely asking, no snark.

    Not every male. Me, Chuck and a few others don’t seem to for example.

    I don’t either, under my explanation 1) she feels he’s a Lion King, explanation for this common high status white girl behavior.

    However if you also read my comment addressed to Maurice, I do think there’s a danger of this slipping into status trimming or challenging behavior.

    Bear in mind that girls do this stuff mostly instinctively at the time. It’s not some deliberately plotted out strategy, usually. It’s “having a bit of fun” as Kim puts it.

    It’s a behavior pattern they’ve seen modeled that other high status girls do, often in good ways, sometimes in bad ways, sometimes a bit of each, but usually tending to make the girl who gets away with it look at least temporarily more impressive, if edging over into bitchy if done in some ways or taken too far.

    That’s why it’s important to have 2 and 4, esp. 4 (since it’s the subtle social weapon as opposed to the only personal one) in your arsenal, and to jokingly display them, at least some.

    Like


  190. However if you also read my comment addressed to Maurice, I do think there’s a danger of this slipping into status trimming or challenging behavior.

    I can agree with this.

    Like


  191. p.p.s the public put-down is something that women do way more than men. some kind of vestigial chivalry, some awareness that we are the stronger sex, restrains us from being unnecessarily cruel to our women even when they deserve it. they show no reservations – especially if they are falling out of love, in which case they can be genuinely nasty. probably angry at themselves for having fallen for a guy they now see no value in. again a kind of self-absorbtion, without consideration for the other person.

    i am still thinking about this… doug’s answer may be partially correct but i don’t think it’s the whole story.

    Like


  192. maurice —

    @doug – hmmm. so you’re saying when a girl disses/shit tests her man in public, she does it to display her own superior status? that a guy is so into her that she can make him put up with her shit and jump through her hoops?

    No alpha should be seen to jump through hoops for his woman. Not hoops that she’s putting up, that is. (very different from saving her from something at the hands of someone else.)

    The dynamic I’m talking about in the Lion King interpretation is not that she’s displaying any superior status OVER him; rather she’s displaying something like (or close to) equality WITH him. The reason for flashing a bit of teeth in the form of Roissy options 2 and esp. 4 (the social option that’s at the same level and non nuclear) is to keep things contained and to show you can assert an edge, while choosing to be knowingly indulgent (Roissy option 1).

    As for talking shitte about him to her girlfriends behind his back, I’ve already said that’s absolutely unacceptable and should be terminated with extreme prejudice. Or the relationship should be.

    Like


  193. At the risk of being accused of race-baiting, can anyone here elaborate about Pupu’s statement on white people and guitars? Because I’m wondering if that’s where my disconnect here is coming from. With black people, guitar music like rock and folk isn’t really popular so few black people I know can play one. In fact, if it came up in conversation at a black party that someone could only play one song on guitar, rather than laugh we’d be impressed he could even play that one song period. But maybe guitar proficiency is more expected in white guys the way basketball skills is expected in tall black guys? Serious question.

    Like


  194. Joe, I’m a white guy and I haven’t the faintest clue what she’s talking about. I’ve never heard anything like this from any guy I’ve ever known.

    Like


  195. Askjoe-

    I suppose I have a different view of alpha males than you do. Not saying that you feel this way, but it seems that, from what I have read in this community, that a lot of guys associate being an alpha with being an asshole. Sure, it works, gets you laid, gets you the girls you want, but it’s typical, boring male behavior for me.

    For me, an alpha is the man in charge of the group, in charge of the situation, who can control a room without being a dick, who can land any girl in the room (also without being a dick), and doesn’t alienate anyone around him. He’s confident in himself, confident in his abilities, secure in his sexuality. This is incredibly rare, incredibly scarce, incredibly desirable. He his is own walking social proof.

    For a guy to flip the bitch switch like in options 2, 3, and 5, that screams to me that this man could never be alpha no matter how hard he tried for the rest of his life. And it’s not rare. It’s sad, pathetic, and too common. It’s a guy being a drama queen. Nasty.

    I do dismiss the nuke and the confront options because they are bitchy. There’s nothing sexual about them, nothing dominating, nothing confident.

    One of the most alpha men I’ve ever met was amused that I constantly forgot to introduce him to people. I bounce through several social groups and don’t keep track. So whenever I’d forget, he’d remind me by politely sliding into the conversation:

    “Hey, I’m Rick, the guy she’s fucking.”

    It wasn’t cocky, it wasn’t a spoiled child, it was a confident, comfortable male. He knew that I would not be upset by it, but that it would remind me to be on my toes because he would do that with -everyone- if I forgot to introduce him.

    I don’t find it to be dominating-asshole behavior to be dragged off into the next room and purposefully fucked so hard my shouts can be heard over the conversation. It’s about intent. It’s about the man I’m with looking at me, smiling, looking at the group, and saying, “We’ll be back in a minute. I need to bone some sense into this woman.” (my version of option #7)

    Polite. Confident. Sexual. Masculine.

    As opposed to whiny, bitchy, and manipulative.

    Like


  196. @ lurker

    “See the scene where Robert DeNiro is putting his girl in her place in “goodfellas.””

    Ray Liotta!!!! RAY LIOTTA!!!

    Like


  197. Maurice

    p.p.s the public put-down is something that women do way more than men. some kind of vestigial chivalry, some awareness that we are the stronger sex, restrains us from being unnecessarily cruel to our women even when they deserve it. they show no reservations. ***

    doug’s answer may be partially correct but i don’t think it’s the whole story.

    Woooaaa.

    You’re mixing apples and oranges here. The situations you’re talking about here are dramatically NOT in my category 1 (lightly tweaking the nose of her Lion King) for why American white women do these things these feminist days. This falls into categories 2 and 3, or maybe she’s something of the bitch type I wasn’t talking about at all.

    Men should not put up with the public put down period.

    Exactly how to handle it depends on exactly how and where and before whom it’s done. Simple walking out on her after delivering a “fuck you” (Roissy option 5 above) is better than just taking it. Normally I’d use Roissy option 3 instead first, directly calling her out, because I wouldn’t have let things get to the 5 stage. Examples of directly calling her out are what Roissy gives above “check yourself woman”. Note, if she refuses to, move on to Roissy option 5 above, say fuck you, and leave. Maybe inbetween, if you’re verbally skillful, you’d just decimate her entire line of complaint or bitchiness and eviscerate her in public. Or maybe not. But you’d be able to.

    Like


  198. LILGRL–

    I gotta admit, I wouldn’t want to have to compete with Ray Liotta over a chick LILGRL. No I wouldn’t.

    I can see serious wetness creation there.

    Like


  199. That scenario sort of bewilders me. If I’m having a party and I’m proud enough of my man to bring him there and present him to everyone I know, I’m going to do everything to prop him up, not bring him down..

    I can see joking about certain stuff (yeh, a little teasing is cute, especially from the guy to the girl) but something as sweet as him playing a song for you? That took time, and I’d be so thankful for it, I might even be ridiculous enough to ask him to play a bit for everyone, heh, so they can see how talented he is 🙂 Yeh, embarassing but whatever.

    Shows a lot of entitlement that she didn’t think it was good enough, but hey, I guess some guys like those kinds of girls?

    Like


  200. on June 17, 2009 at 7:07 pm Willard Libby

    cptnapalm – With regards to the shit test, which is what the cut was, I have a different opinion on why these things exist. To begin, I think that Anglo cultures (if not White as a whole) value cleverness, hence the indirect stuff that Obsidian is puzzling over.

    Yes, but Anglo cultures historically have been some of the most brutal, direct, violent, take no shit of all cultures.

    They engaged in imperial war, slavery, lynching, etc. They also invented modern sports as an expression of their love of combat and aggression.

    It’s not due to indirect passivity that we all speak English.

    Simultaneous with the rise of the British empire there was still a respect for controlled, civil personal behavior almost to the point of unbearable extreme among the British elites and officer class.

    The Japanese too have a history of being ferocious and brutal yet they value indirect. reserved civility as much as any culture ever.

    Now with regards the insulting behavior in roissy’s story I would say I don’t appreciate that level of female disrespect that forces me either to be a wimp or a bully in response.

    And I’m not going to argue with a women about it. If she’s an adult she already knows what is unacceptable. If she thinks she can get away with that with me I simply will move on. She’s picked up bad habits. I’m not interested in putting her through a remedial education.

    Like


  201. PF, yeah, well alpha is a term of art on this site, and the related PUA community.

    Like


  202. The G Manifesto

    Pull out a bag of 50 E-Tabs you just got delivered by some dutch stewardesses and say:

    “Who threw this party? It sucks. Let’s get this gig going! Everyone take an E-Tab!”

    I don’t always drink beer, but when I do, I prefer

    Dos Equis

    Like


  203. Yes, but Anglo cultures historically have been some of the most brutal, direct, violent, take no shit of all cultures.

    They engaged in imperial war, slavery, lynching, etc.

    We’re talking about how they deal with friends and acquaintances within their own social circles, not how they deal with foreigners and other races.

    They also invented modern sports as an expression of their love of combat and aggression.

    This is a dubious claim.

    Like


  204. Firepower’s approach would work, absolutely. The girl would feel a combination of embarrassment and excitement, leading to great sex later that night.

    Like


  205. on June 17, 2009 at 7:32 pm Dave from Hawaii

    The most important thing here is this: if we take it for granted that you’ve been passing her shit tests in your personal interactions up to this point in the relationship, she is now actually just trying to show off to her girlfriends that she has a man who is adept at passing shit tests with ease…i.e. “Look, my new guy has a spine, see how he responds to my challenge?”

    Fail this one, and it will affect her attraction for you definitively.

    Pass it, and she will fall even harder for you.

    In my own experience, #4 worked beautifully. Turn it around on her, and just go completely over the top with it…and if it makes everyone watching your interaction laugh, you win.

    Been there, done that.

    Like


  206. Askjoe-

    I know. But I’ve also noticed that there are many different styles and interpretations of the concept of being alpha, and not just in the comments section of this particular post, and not all of them involve acting like a dick.

    And I’m not complaining. Women are varied, so require various approaches. While Roissy’s actions here would tend to make me think less of a man who engaged in them, I’m sure they work quite well on a multitude of women.

    Different bait for different fish and all.

    Like


  207. As per the predictable, “when a white guy does X, he’s all like Y, while when a brother does X, he’s all like G-manifesto,” discussion, try this

    http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=219413&title=electric-guitar,-drums-or

    http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=11907

    PF, the point of thing is that the girl apparently insulted whiteman’s guitar skills *in front of other people*. Would you do that, make your Rick a butt of a joke? As far as your dream-alpha, yeah, that’s why men shouldn’t trust the unicorn and fairy dust version of the world women live in. I get a feeling that this is what it’s really like:

    http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/lovers-hot-tub-with-drew-barrymore/236046/

    But I agree, being whiny is bad. But nuking isn’t whiny, I think option #2, stare really hard might be. Your option 7 sounds cool, but this isn’t social retardation or kittenish flirting being punished, but a public dressing down.

    Like


  208. Step 1

    Stop the convo ice cold – give devil stare – scare her – get everyone panicked and create the drama that you are about to play nuke game. – every other chick in the place will love this drama and anticipation

    Step 2

    Reach out take her hand and hug her in the middle of the circle. Again this will truely amp the circle…. And say ….

    Step 3

    Yeah but that ONE song works on ALLL the girls

    Like


  209. on June 17, 2009 at 7:45 pm SmartyJones

    @ gig

    Yeah that article is both sad and pathetic. Glancing over a page was so bad it didn’t entertain another.

    Ironically, Obama is just a foil of people projecting their needs (of entitlement) upon. He’s happy to do so. Was just talking to a campaign manager local about this and we both laughed about it.

    As for Michelle, she’s dissed him big more than once in public. Early on she said he smelled and the kids didn’t like being too close as a result.

    Then when he announced the run, she said he hadn’t accomplished anything. She was right. Probably didn’t mean to denigrate him and though she was being factual.

    Of course all of that and probably stuff said I’m not aware of probably is combined with her being fed up with politics. Apparently, Obama liked hanging out away from her and they almost split up in 2000.

    She said she was fed up with his selfishness. Ironically, the media depicts him as opposite. But if you listen to him and follow what he does and the way he puffs himself up, it’s pretty evident.

    Like


  210. on June 17, 2009 at 7:51 pm Willard Libby

    Joe – We’re talking about how they deal with friends and acquaintances within their own social circles, not how they deal with foreigners and other races.

    I think they are closely related. The indirectness and forced civility is a guard against the explosion of aggression that can then be directed at “outsiders”.

    This is a dubious claim.

    Modern competitive sport is an out growth of British imperialism and American “manifest destiny”.

    It’s war by other means. Nothing dubious about my claim.

    Like


  211. lurker said:

    Firepower—wow, I love that idea. Very Mafioso-esque. Ever notice how girlish mafia gfs act when the man comes around?

    See the scene where Robert DeNiro is putting his girl in her place in “goodfellas

    thanks bro.

    I am a thug, plus I look the part so I attract the type – good girls seeking danger thrills, Strippers, Charm School bitches.

    I may picture myself as Wolf Larsen (London’s, nor Robinson’s), but the comparison is lost upon an equally clueless audience. So, pirate must suffice.

    I’ll have a friend spin a dvd and i’ll check out that scene you recommend. that is one cool movie.

    Like


  212. “Your girlfriend has just insulted you, though she may be sufficiently obtuse and/or conditioned by the feeble pantywaistage of past beta boyfriends as to not realize the gravity of her diss.”

    Whoever thinks like this is a little pussy.

    Like


  213. without looking at the options, I would say something to the effect of “That’s not the only thing that sucked that night!”

    now, how did I do…

    Like


  214. Obama is laughed AT by other world leaders. Sarkozy called him stupid, and everyone laughed at him when he bowed and scraped to the Saudi king and kissed his ring. Seriously.

    No one but American women, the media (but I repeat myself), and SWPL yuppies (but I repeat myself AGAIN) thinks Obama is anything but a chump. Even Michelle Obama laughs at him as a chump, and she’s involved in her eyeballs with the Walpole illegal firing, coverup of the Sacramento Mayor/crony of hers.

    That kind of tear-down is standard behavior among American women. It is another massive shit-test.

    With Blacks and guitars … it’s useful to note that Black musical instrument mastery used to be second to none, and Black blues guitars formed part of the basis of rock and roll. Now the only virtuosos and even regular players are the much older Black guys. Musical virtuosity is probably the mark of a still non-thug mating culture, it should be something to watch among White guys. I.E. if it goes like it did among Black guys, it’s a serious sign of switch to thuggery.

    Like


  215. on June 17, 2009 at 8:05 pm Lawyer from Hell

    For those of you that don’t think women do this all the time in infintely subtle ways, I laugh at your innocence.

    You have got to remember that you are dealing with individuals that give implied insults by using phrases such as “She has a pretty face.”

    And if you cannot figure out the insult in that phrase, then I guarantee that even if you think you have never been dissed by your woman, you have.

    It is simply about power and control. A woman that insults you in front of anyone else and gets away with it, is telling everyone that she is in control of the relationship and that you are her bitch.

    If you think that your LTR is not dissing you with her friends when they get together, I challenge you to go skulk around any large gathering of women and just listen.

    10 points, to the first nonwoman that guesses what the above insult is.

    Like


  216. Dave has spoken, case closed.

    maurice @ 5:55. Yeah…i had the same gut reaction to reading it. I also couldn’t read the entirety of the article, so full of complaints and the feelings/situations leading up to her ultimate decision (whichever article it was).

    Like


  217. Lawyer from Hell

    “She has a pretty face.” = she’s fat

    Like


  218. She has a pretty face = she’s fat.

    Having three sisters is educational.

    Like


  219. “She has a pretty face.” = She has a crappy body

    Like


  220. Whiskey–

    Sarkozy called him stupid,

    Did he?

    Quote and link please.

    Like


  221. “She has a pretty face.” = Bitch got so much botox up in her lips/forehead I can see it shining from 2 miles away. Not to mention her make up is terrible, whore. And get a new weave.

    Like


  222. Three immediate correct answers to the sly female putdown… We are not fools here…

    Like


  223. “You have got to remember that you are dealing with individuals that give implied insults by using phrases such as “She has a pretty face.””

    Yes, lame chicks do that.

    Now, kids, here’s the surprise for some of you: If you give a shit when some lame chick does that to you, that makes you another lame chick, not a man. A man doesn’t give a shit.

    Like


  224. One key thing to state though.

    This play diss about only knowing one quitar tune (but that was enough to impress her) is about something completely unimportant. That’s part of why I interpreted it as I did, with some Roissy #4 and #2 teeth showing but not really biting.

    However in any relationship a girlfriend will learn things about you that are a bit bad or at least can be made to look bad. If she starts displaying that, it’s plain and pure disloyalty.

    That calls for much different action. Maybe some 4, but some serious 4, done jokingly, but bitingly. Following that is probably #3 to stop her in her tracks.

    If she keeps it up #5 and a show down when she crawls back to you later.

    Continued and it’s sayonara.

    Like


  225. on June 17, 2009 at 8:20 pm Lawyer from Hell

    The alpha ape doesn’t take shit or he gets pulled down.

    Like


  226. on June 17, 2009 at 8:21 pm SmartyJones

    @Lawyer from Hell

    Girl in question re: the comment is a fat war pig.

    Like


  227. Honestly, I think that in this case, the best option would be the third. Only with some alterations:

    “Directly call her out. “Yo, what’s with you shitting all over my hobbies? Check yourself.””
    (Major awkwardness will ensue, but you’ll feel DAMNEDGOOD and she’ll be a submissive kitten in bed for months.)

    But after that “check yourself!”, just push the girl over to you and give her a somewhat passionate kiss when she’s not impressed – so that everybody knows who’s in control – and then make her walk away. When she walks away, just hit her ass and go grab some food to eat. Then, continue the conversation.

    Of course, I wouldn’t do this, I’m too beta. I’d probabily freeze and be ashamed, turning virtually introverted despite knowing this is what I should do.

    Like


  228. @doug- that’s what I was getting at – the gradations, the scale of the diss. If it’s a playful neg, as this was, no biggie – if it’s deeper or persistent, different story.we don’t disagree on what to do- I just think the public diss/putdown is a different thing than the playfulneg in the context of a good relationship. And I’m not sure why women do the former even if they’re happy in the relationship, which they do.

    Like


  229. Tood,
    Thanks for the Anaga Ranga info; seems it came along in the 15th or 16th century, if I’m not mistaken that would still have been during the Mogul Dynastic periods, just prior to the British Raj period? The Kama Sutra seems to have come along around 2nd century AD. After read the AR, I think its a worthy addition to my library.

    Btw, I also have another work that addresses sexuality and Women-the Brihat Samhita, by one of India’s wisest Men ever, Varamihira, circa 6th century AD. Very interesting stuff.

    Also, gotta give Chuck a shoutout on one of his recent blog posts on the importance of being a good kisser, I agree 100%. Having strong foreplay skills is essential in having what I consider to be Solid Game. If you only know how to get her from First Contact to your bedroom but not know what to do from there or are piss poor at it, then you have Incomplete or Whacked Game.

    The way I see it, it goes down like so:

    First Contact
    Seduction
    Foreplay
    Main Event
    Afterglow

    Wash, Rinse, Repeat from “Seduction” on.

    Woman’s shit testing and the like will completely stop or significantly lessen in direct proportion to the strength of your Game, of which strong application of Good Wood makes up a large part. Trust me when I tell you gentlemen, a well fucked Woman is a true sight to behold-notice how agreeable she is! I always say that w/practice, you can tell the Women who are being well serviced and those who aren’t, and let me tell you, those in the latter section are a sad sight to see. Always bitchy, wants to tear others down, constant shit tests, etc. And don’t let her find out the Woman you’re seeing has had God’s good fortune to have the privilege of receiving your seed-why, she’ll practically explode right on the spot, like that old Scanners movie.

    See fellas, the Ancients have already figured all this out; they have compiled for Humanity a formidable storehouse of knowledge that if carefully read and properly applied, will assure your success w/Females.

    As there are Four Seasons in a year, four compass directions, four corners on a Square, and Four Primal Elements (Fire, Air, Earth & Water), I always aim to give my Woman no less than four powerful orgasms, each one more powerful than the last, for Women cum in waves like the sea. This is why foreplay is so essential, and if your Game is strong enough the foreplay has begun before the foreplay has begun, if you know what I mean. In other words, for Women, sex has begun although you have realy done anything in a physical sense.

    So, I strive for what I call a 4-O Minimum of Satisfaction for my Female. This is important, because Women have stronger orgasmic capacity than us Men, and should be made to reach deep down within herself and made to cum HARD. So hard that she has trouble standing up, her hands tremble, she is bathed in sweat, she starts to cry tears of joy, and she begins to make incoherent groans, grunts and moans like that of a Barnyard Animal.

    Then and only then will you know you have done your duty, and from that point forward she will consider you her Lord and Master and act accordingly, preparing you fine meals, giving you good and frequent back rubs while nude, and giving thanks to the Lord while paying her respects to your Tower of Power, applying the proper oral propitiations, while you recline and make note of copious saliva-slicked ministrations. Note how the shit testing, comes to an end.
    As for Tood’s question as to approaches. As I’m an African American and most Black Woman tend to have primary and secondary Bitch Shields running at full maximum intensity, I learned long ago not to even waste my time approaching them. Instead I make them approach me. I focus on being the prettiest, sexiest, most interesting living being in the room, to the point that she is attracted to the Light. Of course, she is interested as to what I might be like in private. Should she prove herself worthy, she may soon find out, for I do not bestow the Blessings of the Good Wood upon the ungrateful, unworthy or uncouth wenches of the world. Females of this kind should be rebuffed w/authority and sent with all deliberate speed back to whence they came, the Land of Dried-Out Pussy, where not even the dregs of Mankind will want her. Such is a fitting punishment for females who know not the ways of proper deportment.

    Questions, comments or observations, invited.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  230. Or you could say

    “heh baby we cant all play the organ like you”

    “heh baby we cant all play the sax like you”

    Like


  231. on June 17, 2009 at 8:34 pm Charles U. Farley

    Speaking as an amateur, I would apply some variation of the “You must love that song–you never let me finish” line, pause with a thoughtful look, then add:”But you’re right–I really should expand my repertoire of songs; after all,” I would look at one of her girlfriends quickly, then look back at her, “you never can tell who I’ll be playing for in the future.”

    That should serve three goals: first, it reminds her that if she wants me to stay, she’d better work to make me want to stay. That should help cut down on her hamstringing me in front of her friends.

    Second, it should create a little tension between herself and her girlfriends–even if the friend you zone in on has no immediate interest, it plants a seed that can be nurtured later, and if her girlfriends decide to put a wedge between the two of you, she’ll have reason to doubt them.

    Third–and probably most important–it will boost your status in the eyes of her male friends, helping to cut down on any future competition or grief. I’ll have no Wormtongue pouring venom in my woman’s ear when I’m not around, thank you very much.

    Like


  232. O –

    your method of approach (none) reminds me a lot of assanova. not to be too cliche and hypocritical on my own part, but is this a black thing?

    it made me wonder, as part of some of the dialogue here, is it because a refined black man is definitely a scarce resource? No offense there, just seems to be the case.

    Like


  233. Beta Files:
    Also, last friday I went out. Got wasted again. We got out without girls again too so there was no prejudice attached.

    No game although I spoke with three girls.
    First, I opened this model http://fashion.feedfury.com/content/21865438-marisa_perez_maxmen_outubro_2008.html eh eh… An 8~9. She didn’t said nothing interesting, the open was a very casual “Jesus” and we were in hurry to go somewhere so I figured out I’d get nothing from her and departed after 45 seconds…

    Then a coupple of young eighteens (5~6) came to me asking what music was playing, acting like they were playing quizz or something. There I noticed that I failed terribly because my body language was the one of an indigent, I was smoking and looking not too pleased to stay there and especially, the velocity with which I smiled and replied “Bryan Adams” was such that it was effectively a pick-up-killer. They went out as soon as I gave them an answer with just a “Thank you”.

    But I was sitted there because I wanted to slowly talk to some girls who were just next to me. Unfortunetly I couldn’t because some guys just came first.
    Those girls were terrible. The guy said: “oh. So cute. What’s your name” to which the girl replied:

    TOM SAWYER.
    I was just: WTF?? Tom Sawyer? Why do girls do this?? Then I laughed from the conversation and was surprised to see how the guys held on to the girls for longer than half an hour.
    And also the ridiculity of their conversation like, “I’m in the last year and You are new to my college, did you know…? Have you noticed…?”

    And then I made the hot bartenders at my favourite bar laugh twice or such.

    Resume: No game. Good night. At least I saw pretty girls and got wasted. What scares me is that I’m almost 20 and qualify such night as a good one. I’ll work hard to kill the Beta out of me, but I don’t know if it’s possible…

    Like


  234. what happened:

    – she invited you to party where u r in a position of weakness as the new guy
    – she told people essentially that you are a phony (acted as though you knew guitar but knew just the one song)
    – she told people that you are not good at guitar
    – the girls laugh (people laugh either because they are surprised or because they feel superior to others)
    – the men realize that she just insulted you, and look at you to see if you are a pussy or not

    the context:

    – you should not be doing group dates for 3 months, partly for this reason
    – after 2 months dating she should be close to being in love with you
    – it’s a bit personal of her to bring up your big date after only two months of dating. would a guy bring this up? is it anyone’s business? why is she not bringing up only the positives?
    – she should be supporting you and not attacking you in front of strangers, when you are in a position of weakness
    – did you do something to her to piss her off?

    decision framework

    – what would an alpha or natural be expected do?
    – what would a beta be expected to do? don’t do this
    – what would an omega be expected to do? don’t do this
    – what would a woman do? this may be an option
    – how do you avoid having these men thinking you are a pussy? (so they don’t try to swoop your GF)
    – how do you avoid having these women thinking you are a pussy? (so you can bone them another time)
    – you want a nice sloppy bj from your GF that night
    – you want to maintain your self respect

    long term:
    – you need to train this bitch to never do that again.

    analysis:

    – chuckling along and changing the subject seem pretty weak. she did just insult your ass
    – directly calling her out and nuking from orbit scream internal anger. it was just a jab.
    – a woman would do the stare. it seems a bit faggy
    – in a group of male friends jabbing each other, you would be expected to jab back
    – you want to come from a position of plenty, and superiority
    – you embody amused mastery, and use humour and aloofness as weapons

    so, i would say combine #1 (chuckle) and #4 (indirect callout). but this is tricky as you will have to come back with an adequate comeback in a very short period of time.

    – you show her and her peeps that her insult has no effect on you (you laugh it off)
    – you train her that she will get insulted back if she insults you. negative reinforcement doesn’t work that well, so you may have to start rewarding her when she is good
    – her male and female friends will laugh, and perhaps think you are a bit of a dick, which isn’t really a bad thing
    – you can punish her further by flirting with more hot women at the party. and then punish her colon later on that night

    el chief

    Like


  235. Mr. M,
    No offence taken, my friend, nine at all.

    I don’t like Assanova. As his name says, he’s an Ass. And I don’t do Asshole Game, its not necessary. So uncivilized…

    But as a general rule, yes, I tend not to approach Women and instead rather have them approach me. This is because Women, particularly very nice looking ones, get hit on all the time, believe me, they seen it all, heard it all before. Very few guys actually get over on “opening” Women, at least in the hood.

    Instead, I work to make myself a compelling figure. Picque their interest. Find out what is it about this guy, what’s his angle…what’s he like to go out with?

    The other day I talked about how I experimented in a conscious, deliberate way w/peacocking and the like. It don’t take much, in fact there’s a lot of power in realtively muted displays-a really nice scarf, for example.
    So yea, I would imagine the smarter Brothas have caught on like me, and flip the script. But trust me, there’s a lot of Brothas out there who never learn, and still do the cat calling or whatever else. That’s stuff’s for amatuers.

    O

    Like


  236. #6, but don’t wait to punish her. Casually comment that you have an awful habit of doing silly things for girls, wait for the other females to go “Awww,” then up your flirt level to 11 with all her hot friends right in full view.

    Like


  237. Sorry to interject, but has anyone seen Sandra Tsing Loh’s latest screed in the Atlantic? Middle aged wife and mother cheats (to her supposed surprise), leaves her husband, and is now debunking marriage, basically saying men are too stable and boring, and on balance, men make better parents than currently ambivalent mothers.

    Well worth reading. Provides many insights into the heart of darkness lurking inside women today.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200907/divorce

    Like


  238. Nova –

    Yeah, someone just posted a link on that today (up in the thread), and another articles of hers. I looked through her bio/wikipedia profile.

    Looking forward to your analysis of it, its pretty telling of the current trend(s).

    Like


  239. O –

    See, I’m curious. Is this in the context of black-majority clubs? White? Mixed? Whats your attire like? Everyone elses?

    I identify with assanova because, yes, while he’s an ass, he actually seems to understand people extremely well. and i don’t think he’s 100% asshole, it appears he tones down the bullshit once a connection is made…sort of.

    Like


  240. Thanks Mr M. I posted something on it, and will be dissecting it over the next couple of days. This one is a treasure trove of what contemporary women *really* think when they are not spouting bullshit.

    Like


  241. Here is a better one from the Atlantic

    http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200301/flanagan

    “During two strange days in New York last winter, three married people—one after another—confessed to me either that they had stopped having sex or that they knew a married person who had stopped having sex.”

    So even if you dont get divorced, even if you marry the best possible, conservative traditional, lovely, doris day cupcake wife, you will very likely wind up in a sexless marriage.

    You will beg for it and then she will then never “love, honor, and obey” you again…. And you wont leave because you’ll loose the kids the house the car the retirement savings and half your income for 20 years.

    Any man falling into a modern marriage suffers an IMMEDIATE loss in living standards and power / self determination.

    Like


  242. Its funny how the problem of the male/female dynamic (lets say, the failing of the marital system), is just the culmination of most “bad” things in society today.

    That is, its one intertwined poopscrew that isn’t going away anytime soon.

    Like


  243. Doug —

    Here’s one.

    I’ve seen other translations (at Brussels Journal, too lazy to dig it out) where Sarkozy’s comments were translated as naive/stupid. Drudge had it at the time. There’s video of Obama kissing the ring/hand of the Saudi King and you can see Putin and Sarkozy laughing at him.

    There’s been other Sarkozy anonymous comments out of the Elysee Palace about how Obama was stupid on the world without nukes stuff (obvious) and of course Obama made it a point famously to snub Sarkozy by sending a letter to Chirac that sounded like Chirac was still President — for no payoff.

    Outside the US and the US media empire — Obama is Chump city. People laugh at him. See: Iran, North Korea, China, Russia, etc. [Geithner was laughed out of a conference at Tsinghua University when he said the US was committed to a strong and sound dollar.]
    ——————————-
    Novaseeker — Yeah that’s Ehrenreich stuff from Loh. Wanting to be young, beautiful, and with a NEW hot and heavy lover every few years. Nothing new, Ehrenreich said it decades before. Guys ought to know this, marriage is like a pickup by an NFL team from the Free Agency market. It might last a few years, but the unconditional release is always lurking in the background. And it will come.

    Like


  244. By obvious I mean that France depends on it’s nuclear arsenal, it’s “force de Frappe,” to maintain it’s security and has since De Gaulle and the end of the Fourth Republic. Obama was stupid if he thought the French would give up their nukes … EVER … particularly as he’s unwinding the American Defense Umbrella in favor of hope, change, unicorns, and rainbows.

    Like


  245. Here are a few c’n’p’s from the article for anyone thinking about getting married….


    …the reduction in lust that has always gone along with marriage

    more recent is the sexual shutdown that apparently takes place in many marriages soon after they have been legalized.

    ….too exhausted and resentful to have sex

    …If a couple is not having sex because of job pressures and one partner quits working, does the couple have more sex? The answer was immediate and unequivocal: “Absolutely!”

    …The dominant feature of Kate’s attitude toward her husband—that is…. blistering contempt.

    Contempt for his inability to notice if the family has run out of toilet paper or whether the children are properly dressed for a birthday party. Contempt for his very existence in the household

    …I thought I asked you to tidy up?” and “Why the hell can’t you do something that needs doing?”—

    …she tends to get madder than a wet hen. Women are left with two options: endlessly haranguing their husbands to be more womanly, or silently fuming and (however wittingly) launching a sex strike of an intensity and a duration that would have impressed Aristophanes.

    …Marriage remains the most efficient engine of disenchantment yet invented….

    Like


  246. I think you should condition your girl not to do that before you put yourself in a somewhat vulnerable spot, among strangers, where the scrutiny of you behavior will be much more negative then on your own turf. Poster PA stated it well some time earlier that it’s important to communicate a clear expectation that put downs or “shit tests” in public will not be tolerated.

    If she does it anyway then the answer that comes to mind is: “improve your blow job technique and maybe I’ll play you another”. It’s aggressive and likely a relationship breaker, but like a said, if she tries to publicly humiliate you after dating for two months then you have probably failed already.

    Far too many relationships these days have a heavily slanted balance of power where a guy will take any humiliation or put down at the hands of the female just to keep getting pussy. These guys are no really no different to virgin betas who can’t score at all. They are just a little bit luckier, better looking, wealthier, bigger suck ups, or maybe a combination of those qualities.

    Like


  247. #2 only works if you’re an established Alpha. Otherwise… you come off as a bitch doing that. Like el chief said women give the icy cold stare of death.

    Like


  248. Also this kind of thing is a strategic thing women do. A woman knows that if her boyfriend/husband has any sexual market value, she probably has friends who want to bone him (and if he has no sexual market value, she’s not bringing him around her friends.) So she says things like this to devalue the man in front of her friends… it helps to keep the friends away from him.

    Like


  249. Dave –

    I’m curious, knowing what you know now…would you still not get married to your wife?

    Like


  250. on June 17, 2009 at 10:01 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Knowing what I now know, and knowing how things have turned out…yes.

    I certainly would have had a much more enjoyable marriage for the first 7 years though…a lot less conflict and a lot more sex. lol

    Like


  251. Pierce her with the silent, icy stare of soul death.

    I cannot imagine how would you avoid ridiculing yourself bydoing this. Unless you are Pablo Escobar, Michael Corleone or Cesare Borgia

    this is one of the redundancies of this blog. Guys that could do it without ridiculing themselves won’t be victims of shit tests themselves

    Like


  252. The #4 option seems the most natural way to respond to some playful ribbing..if indeed that’s what it was. Now, if I had been spending tons of time and money on guitar lessons and had expressed to my girl a growing frustration at my inability to progress musically, and she knew it was a sore spot, then that’s a different story. Not playful ribbing at that point.

    Someone mentioned earlier the propensity for married women to treat their beta husbands in this fashion and that is what I have noticed as well. Not once, but many times including the most recent, not to mention, the most dastardly insult I’ve witnessed involving a woman trying to publicly humiliate her mate.

    I was chillin at a cookout a few weeks ago when I was introduced to a couple consisting of: the dude, early fourties, decent shape, but a herb in every sense of the word. The wife, mid thirties, attention whore, caked on makeup, nails, the works. The guy couldn’t finish a sentence without his bitch wife telling him to get her a burger, or go to the car to get the camera, or get her another beer, etc, etc.

    A few drinks later and someone brought up the subject of facial hair. One of the chicks mentioned that her bf had recently grown a beard and that she wished he’d shave it. So bitch woman pipes up “Beards are so disgusting. I wish my husband would shave the beard off his back” and in a half drunken stupor tries to pull to the dude’s shirt up to show everyone.

    Sad to say but the guy looked so used to his wife’s insults that they no longer phased him. I was shocked to find out later in the evening that this was his first marriage, his wife’s third, and that they had been married for less than three years. I couldn’t help but think she deserved to be sodomized with a chainsaw.

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  253. During the housing boom years there was a house-flipping show called “Property Ladder” that I enjoyed watching. What was interesting from the alpha/beta standpoint was the dynamics of the couples on camera.

    In some episodes, there would be a downturn of fortune (budget/schedule problems, unexpected complications, no buyers) that strained the relationships.

    In some episodes, it was really touching how the wife or GF would have that faithful attitude in her guy’s ability to work things out, and in other episodes, the wives/GFs would turn into a complete bitches on wheels with the first setback, very often with the guy doing every beta thing imaginable.

    Like


  254. on June 17, 2009 at 10:30 pm Marcus Aureliette

    Girls don’t even know they are doing it, it simply happens. it is as typical of the female sex as the boner is for the male sex

    Some of us are very well aware of the words that come out of our mouths, and in front of whom.

    A lot of this example depends on the delivery. I’m not the only poster who thinks it could just as easily be poorly-executed teasing as an attempt to cut the guy down, depending on her tone and demeanor.

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  255. on June 17, 2009 at 10:38 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Someone mentioned earlier the propensity for married women to treat their beta husbands in this fashion and that is what I have noticed as well. Not once, but many times including the most recent, not to mention, the most dastardly insult I’ve witnessed involving a woman trying to publicly humiliate her mate.

    This is a far different situation than the initial post roissy wrote.

    This is the point you get to when you fail the initial shit test, and continue to do so over a long period of time.

    Every time you fail, her contempt builds, til she can no longer control it.

    I used to feel sorry for guys that had wives like this. Now I know the truth…they are just as responsible for putting up with that kind of shit as she is for doing it.

    You know you’re doing it right when you go to parties and you here your girlfriend/wife bragging about you to her friends.

    Like


  256. My favorite Italian deli was run by a family and I went there often. They were Sicilian and the father was from overseas and a pretty old school hard as nails type.

    One day he got into a fight with his daughter in the deli typical family drama about power and ego. I had known them for a while and managed to have a quiet word with him, somehow it got through. He chilled out.

    Anyway his daughter was grateful as she later said no one had ever been able to before. But one day we were just shooting the breeze and she just blurts out, “Yeah, we know we’re evil bitches.”

    Kind of paused and didn’t say anything. Just thought about the confessional aspect of it. And you know, as “good” as a woman can pretend to be, they always slip up. You just have to be listening. That’s what this comment reminded me of and I took note.

    Bottom line, anytime a woman tries to swipe at your balls, whether it’s in public or private, it’s an attack on your manhood. You have to be prepared to handle it.
    No getting around it.

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  257. @PA:
    “In some episodes, it was really touching how the wife or GF would have that faithful attitude in her guy’s ability to work things out, and in other episodes, the wives/GFs would turn into a complete bitches on wheels with the first setback, very often with the guy doing every beta thing imaginable.”

    And I’m guessing the wives who were faithful in their guy’s ability to work things out were married to guys who were pretty clearly alpha?

    Like


  258. @ Dave

    When I first read this post I couldn’t help but think of what happened at that cookout. I remember wanting to pull dude aside and ask him how in the fuck he had let things get that bad.

    I wanted to feel sorry for him, but realized he was as culpable, if not more so, than his hell spawn wife. There was a saying I heard once that rings evermore true. “Act like a pussy and you get fucked.”

    Like


  259. Instant gut reaction: “It worked!” With big s#!% eating grin.

    Maybe better: “Works every time!” Grin, but toned down a little.

    Or: With a stunned, faraway beta-tone of voice, “It took me 8 hours of practice for 10 straight days to get that song right…” Pin-drop silence. A little more livelier: “Back in 2001.”

    Like


  260. on June 17, 2009 at 11:02 pm Dave from Hawaii

    ““Act like a pussy and you get fucked.””

    Amen Chris. A-FUCKING-MEN.

    Like


  261. Dave from Hawaii
    Every time you fail, her contempt builds, til she can no longer control it.

    I used to feel sorry for guys that had wives like this. Now I know the truth…they are just as responsible for putting up with that kind of shit as she is for doing it.

    as a reformed beta I can tell you that this was the problem in my first marriage… I fell into the exhaustion trap which made me a beta

    before marraige
    Own:
    place,
    bedroom,
    Wardrobe
    toilet
    car,
    Time,
    Money
    Freedom

    the first day after getting married

    Immidiate massive drop in living standards… Losing all of the above, plus all of her bills, her problems, and her families problems…. It really can hit the best of us like a ton of bricks and wear you down pretty quick….

    The only solution is to get rich and powerful and marry at around 40yo to respects your power and whose family lives in another state.

    Like


  262. The wife, mid thirties, attention whore, caked on makeup, nails, the works.

    It’s okay for her to be bossy since she has nails and makeup.

    Like


  263. on June 17, 2009 at 11:15 pm Dave from Hawaii

    I hear ya, Max.

    I’ve learned that there are certain things in the house that I will INSIST she has no say in how it looks – i.e. no feminized garbage.

    When I was first married, she had to “put the women’s touch” on every single room in the house…wanted me to put my weight bench outside of the house, store my guns, put the guitars away, my scotch and bourbon whiskey collection in the cabinet, take down my posters…to which I blithely gave in without much of a protest.

    Not anymore.

    We just moved to a new house about a year and a half ago, and believe me, my weight bench is inside, my guns and guitars are prominently displayed (where I can grab them anytime for easy use), and my whiskey collection is the most prominent area of our kitchen.

    Yeah, she has “her” areas of the house where she can display her female trinkets and foibles and all the other shiny baubles that women place so much aesthetic value in, but when anyone comes to our house, they will know that a man lives there.

    Like


  264. What about laughing but making a cocky claim about something else – “maybe, but that’s because I spent all my time becoming awesome at x”

    Like


  265. Or in my case just “yeah but I spend all my time being awesome”

    Like


  266. @ Dave

    I know some guys dig all the shit some women do to fit their definition of what’s attractive, sexy, and feminine.

    Personally I find a bowling ball sized goiter hanging off the side of a chick’s neck more appealing than the Jersey shore prostitute look.

    Like


  267. @ DA^

    Like


  268. Dave from Hawaii
    I hear ya, Max.

    Thanks Dave – those are good tips

    I think to be alpha you need:

    1) Time to do your own thing
    2) Money
    3) some more Time to workout
    4) A state of mental calm
    5) A great stance and posture
    6) the ability to say and do whatever the hell you want when you want to…

    in any relationship – these 6 things will immediately come under enemy fire.

    Like


  269. Jersey shore prostitute look

    I see nothing wrong with that look. It’s a lot better than the asexual display that most women tend to have…

    Like


  270. Jackie the T., I’ve missed you. I wish you’d left me and the rest your fans some clue about you’d gone to when you vanished from the net of uses all those years ago. But that’s all water under the bridge. Great to see you writing again.

    Like


  271. it was really touching how the wife or GF would have that faithful attitude in her guy’s ability to work things out, and in other episodes, the wives/GFs would turn into a complete bitches on wheels with the first setback

    A joke among some black comics is that black women typically have the behaviour of the second type of wife listed, while the first type is how white women behave. Mind you, I’ve seen strong men regardless of race who stand up to their wives be subject to the behaviour of the second wife…

    Oddly, despite just being friends, non-date sorta reeks of the first behaviour which I find disconcerting at times…

    Like


  272. “Really, one shouldn’t take this so seriously. When I’m sleeping with someone, or looking to start sleeping with someone, banter (or playful dissing) is a way I establish if someone’s worth sleeping with. Do they have a brain? Are they confident? Can they hold their own? Can they keep a natural flow? Will they result to flat out insults because they can’t play? Hell, half the fun is getting a guy riled up to the point of him dragging you into the next room and bending you over a piece of furniture while the party is going on.”

    Poetry of Flesh, I like you. Keep posting.

    Like


  273. Virgin @ 40,

    Join a lair. Get help. Talk to people.

    10 openers per night, minimum.

    Like


  274. In a month you will be completely different. Read the Mystery Method and watch The Blueprint.

    You can turn this around in a month man, be a person you never thought you could be. In a year, you’ll have tail left and right.

    Like


  275. on June 18, 2009 at 1:02 am wintergreen

    He sucks at playing guitar!

    Up until then you could just laugh the comment off, but when she says you suck, you have to do something.

    As soon as she says this, your status drops relative to everyone in the circle, especially her. I would go for #4 to get her friends all laughing at her. This simultaneously lowers her status and raises yours (because you’re funny and witty now).

    I think #1 sucks because it lowers your status and you’re showing that you’re just going to sit there and take it like a clown. If I couldn’t think of a witty rejoinder, then I walk away and start gaming another cutie at the party.

    Later on when we’re alone I grab her arm, stare into her eyes, and tell her don’t ever insult me like that again or you’re done.

    Like


  276. If David Alexander was in this position, option 1 is probably what he’d use since he’s been exposed to far worse insults during his lifetime. Option 4 works if there’s something that I can point out like her inability to cook something other than baked chicken or provide satisfactory oral sex…

    Like


  277. Joe

    “Am I the only guy who things that joke, on its own and not part of an overall pattern of passive aggression, wasn’t that big a deal? Unless the guy really takes pride in his guitar skills or something.”

    Totally. This is like the joke about the seal that wanders into a bar and asks for anything but Canadian Club.

    Like


  278. If i didn’t have a witty comeback on hand then I’d pick silence with a blank stare, as if I didn’t hear the comment. Then I’d take her home and smash the guitar on her fucking head.

    Like


  279. I think it is important that the guy should make it clear, one way or the other, that girly crossed a line. My first impression is that the GF did this as if on autopilot; straight, pure instinct, but not exactly as conscious evil intent. This is just what womens hind-brains tell them to say in these situations. For all sorts of reasons.
    She needs a wake up call. I do not think she deserves a head shot.
    But if she does it again start planning for life without her.

    Like


  280. on June 18, 2009 at 1:41 am Days of Broken Arrows

    One of the reasons for the type of behavior described in Roissy’s original post is that women watch way more TV than men, and imitate those harpys on the sitcoms. There was some study that said on TV, woimen win arguments 80 percent of the time.

    Well, women expect this to translate into the real world. They think all men are losers like that fat fuck on “Still Standing.”

    Not quite. Not all men like to be castrated. So a well-placed zinger at just the right time will shut her up. If you do this once early on, they learn not to do it again.

    Women, in their own way, are kind of like the school bully. If you prove you can’t be fucked with early in the school year, the bully will generally leave you alone. But once you let him fuck with you and you come out on the losing end, the goading never stops. You need to prove your mettle early on with bullies and in a relationship.

    Like


  281. The only solution is to get rich and powerful and marry at around 40yo to respects your power and whose family lives in another state.

    That is brilliant advice man 🙂

    Like


  282. “As soon as she says this, your status drops relative to everyone in the circle, especially her.”

    No, your status does not drop. Your status was not in any way contingent on your guitar playing skills. You aren’t eric clapton or jimmy page; why should you care if someone doesn’t think you’re the world’s best guitar player? now, if she digs at your sexual prowess, or, for example, if you’re a real estate agent and she says you suck at selling houses, that’s another story. but she’s taking a dig at a *minor* hobby.

    Your status is purely a function of the woman you’re dating and your personality and looks so far during the house party.

    Think of it this way: if the girl you’re dating selected you for a reason, that is all the status you need to impress her friends. her selection of you as a mating prospect will far outshine any off-hand dig about your guitar playing skills, which you have no egotistical investment in. also, if your status drops, so does hers.

    Like


  283. on June 18, 2009 at 2:16 am wintergreen

    Chuck,

    I wasn’t commenting on the content of her insult; I know it doesn’t matter if you are good at guitar or whatever. It’s more about the fact that she insulted you in front of all her friends.

    Your status is purely a function of the woman you’re dating and your personality and looks so far during the house party.

    These things are all more or less fixed; are you saying that nothing at that party can affect your status? Or nothing she says? Or maybe we’re talking about two separate things.

    I’m talking about status within the group, which doesn’t have much to do with say what your job is. I see status within a group as a fluid situation that can change easily and frequently. Most human interactions (between friends of bf/gf) are full of intricate maneuvers to maintain near-equal status.

    Throwing out an insult is a good way to disrupt that balance. Unless you’re so alpha or high-status that insulting you is viewed by everyone as a major social blunder. Like meeting the president and insulting him or saying something inappropriate in front of him.

    It doesn’t seem to me that the guy in this example has that level of status relative to the group, probably somewhere in between–the girls laugh, but the guys in the circle get nervous and look at you for cues on how to react (a sign that he has high status in this situation).

    If he has a witty comeback and everyone laughs at her..well his status goes up relative to hers as he restores the balance, and he gets an added boost for diffusing the social tension (a skill which women do find attractive).

    Like


  284. I guess you could always respond with something along the lines of, “hey princess, you just got demoted to 3rd girlfriend” then option 6.

    Like


  285. Who the hell is Assanova?

    Like


  286. If you really do suck at playing the guitar and can only play one song, then you obviously just played that one song just to get into her pants.

    Your comeback from her pseudo insult is to respond with a joke. First you must internally realize and admit that you suck at playing guitar but that you’ll resort to gimmicks to get in a chicks pants. When the other guys look at you they will see that you did it to fuck her and you will not lose face because they would like to fuck her to.

    After you are done with her you can teach them to play the song as well.

    Like


  287. Interesting take JerrDogg…

    “Yeah, yeah…I only learned one song to get into girl’s pants.” Look your girl up and down like she’s a piece of meat. “But it works.”

    Or end with “I know it sounds lame, but it just works so well on the easy girls”, all the time looking at your girl with a shit eating grin.

    Now you’ve demonstrated that her insult means nothing to you, and that her opinion of your guitar skills means less. She tried to lower your value, but inadvertently lowered her own because she’s sleeping with the guy who sucks at guitar. She fell for the gimmick.

    Delivered correctly she can’t blow up at you without looking like a thin skinned drama bitch. Her friends will find the return play funny, and you just know one of the male friends will blurt out “teach me that song man.”

    It’s #4 with less risk of appearing spiteful to the friends or triggering a fight or emotional out burst from her.

    Good call JerrDogg.

    Like


  288. Mr. M,
    I’ve learned to blend in to an extent w/whatever environment I’m in, then take it up a notch, if that makes sense. And this goes for wherever I am.

    As for Assanova, he sounds very young and again, not my cup of tea. But to each his own.

    O

    Like


  289. Oh, and something else.

    Someone attempted to suggest, that the reason why some White folks, and I’m speaking specifically to the Creative Class/SWPL/Pencil Pushing/Cubicle Dwelling/Middling Classes, do all of the inferred/implied Cloak & Daggerism that makes up the body of this post we’re all responding to, is because White folks like to see how “clever” they are.

    That’s gotta be some of thee most ridiculous bullshit I have heard yet up in here.

    First off, if you were able to get in her pants, and then knock her boots for nearly 8 weeks straight, that’s damn clever enough to me. So again, there’s simply no need, or point, in the lass doing some dumb stuff like what’s been described. It damn sure ain’t “clever”.

    As for Black folks fighting or being offended at dumb stuff at parties, I agree. Which is why I’m very selective as to what parties I attend.

    O

    Like


  290. on June 18, 2009 at 5:37 am Cliff Arroyo

    After some consideration, I think the real, perfect response is:

    Chuckle and say “Hey, why study when you can ace the final in week one?”

    You’ve gone along with the joke (probably what it was intended to be) and said something genuinely funny that is very mildly at her expense but which she can’t object to in any reasonable manner. The word ‘can’ is important as it indicates this may not have been the first (or last) time you try that particular gambit.

    It also, in a socially acceptable way, escalates the personal revelations (which she initiated, but will be eager to stop).

    Like


  291. there are times when you should respond to small jokes/insults with a laugh or a witty reply.
    and
    there are times when you should respond to BIG
    jokes/insults with a strong reply or physically.

    alot of times people have a problem with differencing between the two.

    i’ve been in situations were a person took a joke/insult to seriously and in situations where a person did’nt take it seriously enough.

    being born and raised in NYC i sometimes have to
    take jokes/insult seriously even when i don’t want to, if i don’t strike back i’m considered weak.

    there are times when you have to respond to big jokes/insults with strong replys or physical or they’ll never stop, i’d rather be the guy who people whisper to each other “don’t joke around him, he’s a little too serious” than be the guy everyone can joke about.

    people who others always joke about or insult are not taken seriously.

    Like


  292. Holy shit…no one who pulls out a guitar and plays spanish ballad with a straight face is an Alpha. It ended there.

    End of fucking thread. HTFH.

    Like


  293. Give her a pat on the head ‘that is cute’ smile.

    say: “I won’t let you shame me into playing more songs for you.”

    Move on with the conversation.

    Like


  294. @ Tood: I just checked out that link for the Anga Ranga. It is interesting so far, though so far does not contain anything of practical use.

    One thing of interest is how small Indian cocks are:

    The longest type of cock mentioned for a man is six inches.

    Like


  295. Breeze,
    Size matters not. And the AR is quite instructive.

    For example, note how often it cites the important of scratching, biting and striking certain areas of the Woman’s body. This is important. The Kama Sutra was talking about BDSM before there was such a thing in modern parlance.

    It also speaks of the different kinds of Women by build, etc. This is important, because all methods will not work on all Women. If you don’t believe that, ask around.

    Anyway, I found an interesting blog for those who want to see Game applied on the Darkside of America: The Black PUA

    http://theblackpua.blogspot.com/2009_01_01_archive.html

    He makes some very interesting observations, and after he comes back to the States I might start leaving some posts over there.

    More later.

    O

    Like


  296. Some of us are very well aware of the words that come out of our mouths, and in front of whom

    most of the time, but not always.

    I’d say the woman is more conscious that she is shit testing in two situations:
    – when the guy approaches her for the first time
    – when the guy has had repeated failures

    Like


  297. Reading this thread makes me realize that men are just as analytical / can be just insecure as women in regard to thinking about what the opposite sex says/does to them…

    Like


  298. Not “realize” after thinking over experiences with male friends, but maybe confirms/solidifies…

    Like


  299. If I were a guy…

    I’d look at her with a gleam in my eye and a tiny bit of twinkle and say in a cheery voice “rape ya later”.

    Just kidding. 🙂

    It’s a context thing. Only the dude would know her well enough to know if it was a diss. It could entirely be a funny and to me would raise his status as it shows he has Game (i.e. learning how to play one song in order to be Casanova). It could have also been her bragging about what he did in order to snag her (i.e. he was willing to learn a song just to close the deal with her). It could be her doing the thing women do putting her guy down in order to raise her own status with other women and show her indifference to her partner. If it’s the latter that’s something you have to nip. I’d use humour in public similar to some of the posters have said “It works” and wink. Then you use some of Roissy’s advice and raise your status at the party with other chicks, shake her position without being an asshole. You want to curb the behaviour for future events, it’s a ‘training’ issue fellows.

    Like


  300. I like the suggestion “that’s all I needed” or “worked on you”.

    Roissy, your students have surpassed the master.

    Like


  301. aoefe (if she were a guy) would:

    … look at her with a gleam in my eye and a tiny bit of twinkle and say in a cheery voice “rape ya later”.

    Very Alpha.

    …You want to curb the behaviour for future events, it’s a ‘training’ issue fellows.

    Just one thing: You are a chick; you are not supposed to offer good advice. Repeat after me “just be yourself.”

    Like


  302. Julia

    Firepower’s approach would work, absolutely. The girl would feel a combination of embarrassment and excitement, leading to great sex later that night.

    Julia is… my kind of girl

    Like


  303. on June 18, 2009 at 11:51 am Dr. Grzlickson

    “The Black PUA…I might start leaving some posts over there.”

    Please leave all of them over there.

    “More later.”

    Great.

    Like


  304. “And now we see why Lisa sucks at relationships…”

    option 4b?

    Generate uncomfortable atmosphere while hinting at forth coming nuking, cat-womanhood.

    Like


  305. “Women fall when there’s no strength in men”

    Shakespeare, or rather Friar Laurence in Shakespeare’s play “Romeo and Juliet” is saying to Romeo that women will become feeble/fickle/weak if men are not strong (have no strength of character)’

    Like


  306. @DeGoodAdvice

    Thanks for putting me in my place! 🙂

    Like


  307. Rape ya later in this context is not alpha at all.

    It will look stranger and assholeish. That will show you need to show control over her instead of really controle her.

    Instead, just rape her with a long kiss that makes her back swell in the moment, just after saying that she’s a bitch or something (actually, what you shall say must be something better like “I know other musics, but you don’t deaserve it, those will be to other girls”). After that, push her away and hit her ass hard enough for other people to notice it, her to notice the violence but soft enough for it to be discrete.

    Then go on and grab some food as if nothing had happened and them resume to the conversation with whom you were talking to. This would do just fine.

    Like


  308. Dr. Grzlickson,
    Pardon? Do you have a problem with me, “Doc”? If so, be a Man about it, and sound off like you got a pair. What is it that you don’t like?

    O

    Like


  309. @virgin

    “Rape ya later in this context is not alpha at all.”

    I was trying to be funny and kind of hit at the Biting Beaver commentary about rape. But ya I might have missed it.

    Like


  310. [email protected], aoefe

    Just to be clear, we were both joking.

    Like


  311. aoefe

    Just being myself. 🙂

    Like


  312. [email protected] hallucinated:

    Rape ya later in this context is not alpha at all.

    It will look stranger and assholeish. That will show you need to show control over her instead of really controle her.

    Instead, just rape her with a long kiss that makes her back swell in the moment …et al

    klaatu barrada nicto

    Like


  313. Rape ya later in this context is not alpha at all.

    It will look stranger and assholeish. That will show you need to show control over her instead of really controle her.

    Way to ruin a good joke buddy.

    Like


  314. “assanova” sounds like a bad name for a gay porn star. (or, rather, a good name for a gay porn star.) i don’t think i want to know any more …

    Like


  315. Lol

    Sorry…

    I didn’t realise…

    Those english skills of mine… I really didn’t realise.

    Like


  316. Actually looking back the fact you took it literally kind of makes it funnier 😀

    Like


  317. [email protected] explained:

    Lol

    Sorry…

    I didn’t realise…

    Those english skills of mine… I really didn’t realise.

    lol, just tell us your non-American technique for “making her ass swell in the moment” and you’re completely forgiven.

    we might even subsidize your future esl typing 101 classes

    peace,
    Firepower

    Like


  318. Dreamer

    Reading this thread makes me realize that men are just as analytical / can be just insecure as women in regard to thinking about what the opposite sex says/does to them…

    I think the operative word there is “can”. Men CAN be just as analytical and insecure about interactions with the opposite sex.

    I don’t think most men want to be, or to try to squeeze e.g. every last ounce of advantage out of a situation by such things.

    It’s more a case where the current feminist environment and gen Y’s upbringing within it has driven men to have to do these things to get back their mojo, many of them.

    Like


  319. aoefe —

    If I were a guy…

    I’d look at her with a gleam in my eye and a tiny bit of twinkle and say in a cheery voice “rape ya later”.

    Just kidding. 🙂

    It’s a context thing. Only the dude would know her well enough to know if it was a diss. It could entirely be a funny and to me would raise his status as it shows he has Game (i.e. learning how to play one song in order to be Casanova). It could have also been her bragging about what he did in order to snag her (i.e. he was willing to learn a song just to close the deal with her). It could be her doing the thing women do putting her guy down in order to raise her own status with other women and show her indifference to her partner. If it’s the latter that’s something you have to nip. I’d use humour in public similar to some of the posters have said “It works” and wink. Then you use some of Roissy’s advice and raise your status at the party with other chicks, shake her position without being an asshole. You want to curb the behaviour for future events, it’s a ‘training’ issue fellows.

    I like your entire comment.

    I think the joke works.

    I think you’re absolutely right that delivery and group dynamics and the nuance of the situation would determine whether these ambiguous facts describe something that really was just gentle tweaking of the nose of the Lion King she’s showing her friends she’s oh so proud of, or a real if not by itself yet so serious diss in front of them.

    It’s long been obvious that you aren’t just fronting. you totally get being a really good woman.

    Like


  320. Poetry of Flesh

    You’re new here, under this name and posting at least.

    I just read your comment.

    Liked it alot.

    Hope you stay and say more.

    Welcome.

    Like


  321. Having a hissy fit would be far too thin skinned. The way I read it, your girl is basically inviting you to display your alphahood to her friends and publically put her in her place with a grin, so do that. Make her a bit flustered without being too crude.

    “She never gives me any time to practice (… my guitar)” (smirk)

    “You sing another tune in the bedroom, sweetie.” (smirk some more)

    Actually it won’t have to be too devastatingly clever, the hooting from her friends will cover up any flaws.

    Or dodge it: “Yeah, but ever since she’s treated me right, you know?” Slightly sappy/risque, gear change is unexpected, and now she’s publically known to treat you right. There are worse parts to play in a relationship, right?

    Follow up with a squeeze or pat.

    Like


  322. LR–

    Not to mention that if a man EVER talked about our sex life in front of me to friends, the relationship would be over that second without a moments’ hesitation.

    Men should react this way even more, or with far more certainty than women would/should.

    That’s because for whatever variety of reasons, people are far more likely to believe there’s a lot of truth to the dis if it’s about a man from a woman than the other way around. (Obviously in either case if there’s abundant evidence to the contrary the belief won’t be there, but there’s that tendency.)

    Men tend to believe (only partly accurately, but there it is) that the right man can make any pretty woman respond well even the supposedly dead fuck or frigid ones, while women tend to believe (only partly accurately, but there it is) that if a man is a sex performance dud for one non hideous woman, he’ll be a dud for her too.

    Like


  323. Guys; LR

    and retaliating with white-trash revenge is NOT good advice. Leave her if she talks about you in public, she’s not a good woman then.

    Not this kind of not about anything serious talking about you in public in a joking way, not to begin with.

    Instead follow my much better advice, all of it.

    If she does take it to serious topics, then it’s retailiate socially in a high class rather than white trash way, give her a talking to, and then if it persists, kick her to the curb.

    The word I used had some class though. “Sayonara.”

    Like


  324. Women, in their own way, are kind of like the school bully. If you prove you can’t be fucked with early in the school year, the bully will generally leave you alone. But once you let him fuck with you and you come out on the losing end, the goading never stops. You need to prove your mettle early on with bullies and in a relationship.

    Heh. That’s pretty good.

    Like


  325. @doug

    “It’s long been obvious that you aren’t just fronting. you totally get being a really good woman.”

    Thanks, means a lot coming from you, appreciated. Big grin here in real life. 🙂

    Like


  326. This girl isn’t afraid enough.

    She isn’t on her toes. She doesn’t fear losing her man. She isn’t puppy eyed at him in public.

    That’s the essence of it.

    The man needs to instill more fear into her, and raise his attraction. He needs to be boning her hard, and making it painfully clear that he is in all ways capable of transfering his boner elsewhere.

    Like


  327. Aoefe,
    Let me also say, that I stopped by your blog; you are quite attractive. And I thought your coat was…interesting.

    I’ll stop by from time to time.

    O

    Like


  328. Women tend to copy behaviours, and some need to be nipped in the bud. Any girl who starts being matronly and acting as if it her natural place in the order of things to run the household needs a very swift re-adjustment of her views.

    It’s important at every step to be explicitly clear. I run my house, and I’m in charge. End of conversation.

    And as for shit tests – it’s the same take no shit attitude, but ramped up 10 levels – that stops them. The ultimate shit test to pass is the “I’m leaving you” test. A good way to pass it is to physically carry her out of the hosue and lock the door. Another is to ignore her completely, up until she is about to leave your house (even if living together, NEVER share house ownership – you MUST have YOUR house, or you are whipped), and then casually pick her up and throw her on the bed and rodger her senseless. The ultimate shit test is that you have power over her, and yet in a pinch will break up with her – she does not have equal power over you.

    It is not an equal relationship.

    She must feel she is lucky to be with you, and fear losing you, and be afraid of doing things that would compromise being with you. She must feel insecure, and properly fucked.

    Like


  329. @Obsidian

    Thanks for stopping by and thanks for the compliment. The coat is interesting, perhaps it looks better in real life? Or I’m just imagining it does. I do like wearing things that other girls aren’t traipsing around in.

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  330. great topic. here are a couple ideas that blew threw my head as I read this post.

    1. exaggerated, sarcastic laugh: “HA HA HAAA!” followed by, “Dissing my six string skills, eh?” then, to the group, “She’ll pay for that later. When none of you are around to see.” gesture toward the group with the hand holding your drink as you say “none of you are around.”

    2. if she were to get pissy at this comment and further attack my guitar skills or some other aspect of who I am, I might reply with, “you must have me confused with some random hookup.” optional, add “I’ve never even played the guitar for you.” whether this is true or not is irrelevant since the group isn’t likely to know. I think this is kinda funny, but kinda calls her a slut for getting her men confused, too (again, even if there were no other men). I guess this retort would also work as a first comeback. either way, it oughtta pipe her down a bit.

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  331. D

    “Women fall when there’s no strength in men”

    Shakespeare, or rather Friar Laurence in Shakespeare’s play “Romeo and Juliet” is saying to Romeo that women will become feeble/fickle/weak if men are not strong (have no strength of character)

    The whole moral to the play is that Romeo is not man enough to take care of his woman, and Juliet’s death is due to Romeo’s weakness. Romeo is a limp wristed playboy who seduces Juliet but then fails her when the heat is on. That line you quoted sums up the play well.
    The tragedy is Romeo’s failure to grow a pair.

    Shakespeare new how men and women worked. Read The Taming of The Shrew. Petrucio is an alpha full of game. He’s like a 16th Century G Manifeso. Compare Katrina’s love and devotion at the end of the play to Bianca’s disinterest for her husband.

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  332. “Women fall when there’s no strength in men”

    pretty much everything else falls when there is no strenght in men…………………

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  333. I think the suggestion that the girl was trying to reduce his stature slightly in front of her girlfriends and male friends and show she had power in the relationship sounds true. It suggests that the woman for some reason feels threatened. Maybe he is a higher status than her (more money, better job, more education) ? Maybe he thinks her girlfriends find him too attractive? Maybe he is more physical attractive than her? In any case, she is trying to take him down a peg, not build him up, in front of her friends.

    Her implied insult that he sucked playing the guitar means nothing because he hasn’t bragged (I hope.) about his guitar playing ability to anyone else.

    So, she has made herself look catty and weak.

    In my circle of friends (educated white people), any sarcastic, testy or thuggist response would be a total faux pas. The guy would be judged an idiot. The girl could not maintain her social status if she stayed with him. Talk about being devalued.

    No, the response would have to deflect her criticism in a very clever and good natured way. Even saying that one song was all it took might even be a bit insulting to the girl in front of her friends, making her sound easy or cheap.

    Perhaps something to the effect that “the results speak for themselves”, or, “if you play hard to get, I’ll play my other song for you.” A little bit clever and slightly self deprecating, showing that you don’t feel threatened one bit by her catty behavior.

    Anyway, if he cares about a LTR, he has to fix this problem, in private. Otherwise, just enjoy until she becomes too big a nuisance.

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  334. 7. roll your eyes at her

    all the best of 1 and 2 without losing unflappable alpha vibe. has the added benefit of being an implied insult a la #4.

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  335. on June 22, 2009 at 8:57 am Gunslingergregi

    ”””””’Roissy
    I see six available options to the man in this scenario.””””””””””””

    Forgot option 7.
    Walk over to her and spank that ass in front of all her friends.

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  336. on June 22, 2009 at 9:18 am Gunslingergregi

    Max A
    “”””””””””””Dave from Hawaii
    I hear ya, Max.

    Thanks Dave – those are good tips

    I think to be alpha you need:

    1) Time to do your own thing
    2) Money
    3) some more Time to workout
    4) A state of mental calm
    5) A great stance and posture
    6) the ability to say and do whatever the hell you want when you want to…

    in any relationship – these 6 things will immediately come under enemy fire.”””””””””””””””””

    Nice list bro

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  337. I always considered the American convention of wearing street shoes in the house to be barbaric, but I’m suddenly seeing the advantage.

    Imagine trying to walk out of a party in a big huff if you have to stop and tie your shoes on the way out!

    “Whatever, I’m gone. Now, let’s see, which of these dozens of shoes are mine… ok, found them… rabbit goes over the log, in the hole… Alright now I’m really gone.”

    Also, why does Obsidian get all the hate? His questions seem reasonable enough to me – it’s not like even the “all races are equal” people deny that there are cultural differences that highly correlate with race, right?

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  338. After watching the film another very alpha move is when he makes the beta hold is drink in front of the chick. He also constantly makes fun of the beta… who does nothing. In the end, it is obvious that the manipulation worked.

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  339. I definitely think #1 and #4 are the way to go.. but I’ve also used the #5 nuke strategy with good effect. It let’s them know exactly where they stand.

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  340. Wit + Fuck You:

    “Oh that reminds me of something sweety… Go Fuck Yourself.”

    Say it with a smile.

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  341. […] game, or if you’re a recovering beta who isn’t yet confident enough in his LTR game to risk a more proactive approach to a dying LTR, then the No Contact Zone is for […]

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  342. I’d take the simple approach on this one.

    “Oh, you’ve got jokes, huh? Glad to see we have an in-house stand up comic.”

    Or something like that. Just keep it cool. She’s your girl. There’s no need to neg at that particular point in time. It would be different if she cracked on you on a date…maybe even a dinner date with another couple. But with friends? Nah, just play it cool.

    #1 is the alpha move. Hopefully, if a girl is with you and introduces you to her circle of friends, she sees you as an alpha. No need to squander your alpha capital by getting all defensive.

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  343. on March 20, 2010 at 7:58 am seanaveryssloppyseconds

    You know what? If I got called out like this by my woman in front of all her friends like that, the chances are I would go with #1. My chuckle and the look in my eye would be devilish and I would look around the room at everyone, guys and girls, as if to say, “so fucking what, she totally took the bait and now look at that bitch in the corner who is going to be begging to ride my cock later.” I then proceed to ignore her for an indefinite period of time and strut around like I could have any woman in that room. And just as importantly I’d (without overtly telling them) convey to the guys there that my Spanish Guitar Ballad bit shows what a talented and intelligent fellow I am and I can get good at anything long enough to get a woman to bed with me. Yes, as far as I am concerned, that Spanish Guitar Ballad romance stuff is just a play in my playbook that put points on the scoreboard, helping the team (me) win. It’s all a game and any time a page in your playbook works, you smile and let everyone know that you are fucking brilliant.

    But the key to me is that she knows that not only did you take it to heart, but you also turned it around on her. The fact is this: she fell for it. It worked. And for her to shit on you for having been good at wooing her shows how insecure she is. It’s just a silly little girl game and you need to put her in time out for it.

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  344. on March 20, 2010 at 8:00 am seanaveryssloppyseconds

    Correction:

    But the key to me is that she knows that not only did you NOT take it to heart, but you also turned it around on her. The fact is this: she fell for it. It worked. And for her to shit on you for having been good at wooing her shows how insecure she is. It’s just a silly little girl game and you need to put her in time out for it.

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  345. This is going to seem a little strange, but once I held a dinner party for myself, a girlfriend, and a couple of friends. My girlfriend said something like what you mentioned, to which I responded in kind, and then she kind of play-slapped me, and then I slapped her so hard she fell on the floor and started sobbing. It was an awkward moment.

    But we got over it, I bent down to apologize and the four of us watched a movie later and my girl was totally snuggly. Had sex after they left.

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  346. Heh, I once told my longtime girl to go fuck herself when she disagreed with me over a trivial thing. In front of her parents, and mine. At her dad’s house.

    She said ‘I’m sorry’. Everybody else froze. It was beautiful.

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