Amish Love

The Open Borders Journal has an article about the growing popularity of Amish pulp romance novels. It seems women — Amish and heathen alike — are snorting these books like chocolate-covered eight balls.

Most bonnet books are G-rated romances, often involving an Amish character who falls for an outsider. Publishers attribute the books’ popularity to their pastoral settings and forbidden love scenarios à la Romeo and Juliet. Lately, the genre has expanded to include Amish thrillers and murder mysteries. Most of the authors are women.

Beverly Lewis, who sets her novels among the Amish in Pennsylvania, has sold 13.5 million copies of her books.

13.5 million copies. I’ve long said that if you are a man who understands the mind of women you should write hackneyed romance novels under a female pseudonym and CASH THE FUCK IN. Forget the noble goal of writing the next Great American Novel; the money is in forbidden love and hoary cliches aimed at bored middle-aged wives and tweenies experiencing their first gina tingles.

But surely, I need talent to amass such a large audience, you may wonder. Well, let’s take a look at an excerpted passage:

“His warm, gentle lips moved over hers, and she returned the favor, until Hannah thought they might both take flight right then and there. Finally desperate for air, they parted.”

There’s your answer. No one ever went broke underestimating the poor taste of the distaff masses. Of all the “literary” genres, cheeseball romance is probably the easiest to write and, idiocratically, the most lucrative as well. It’s the female equivalent of single position porn and egg white plus yohimbe-fueled money shots under cheap lighting. All you need to know is one simple rule, and then you can count your benjamins: You’ve gotta tap that inner ape core in every woman by appealing to her base sexual instincts. This means having a good grasp of concepts such as:

  • Game
  • Male attractiveness traits
  • Badboy reformation projects
  • Female hypergamy
  • Overcoming obstacles to love
  • Parental intrusion
  • Peer judgementalism
  • Forbidden love
  • Foreplay

It also helps to have an eye for detail and knowledge of colors beyond red, green and dark green.

I think another reason besides the concept of forbidden love that explains the popularity of Amish romance novels has to do with the cultural milieu in which they exist. When the country is going to pot around you (read: it’s getting more diverse and distrustful as people greedily scramble for their slice of the taxpayer-funded pie), you find solace in fictional worlds of order and stability. And what’s more orderly, more mundane, than the Amish? If I’m right, we’ll soon see a literary trend toward traditionalism and small town esprit.

I’ve thought about writing pulp romance under a female pseudonym, but I don’t think I could resist the urge to subvert my readers’ expectations.

“His warm, gentle lips moved over hers, and she returned the favor, until Hannah thought they might both take flight right then and there. Finally desperate for air, she squirted. Her nether furrow drenched in warm moisture, she thought perhaps she had urinated, and ran away from him in shame, her legs shaking the whole way like a dog shitting olive pits. Wherefore this strange new feeling?, she begged to the god whose eyes she felt burning judgement into her soul. Finally home, panting in confusion and ecstatic pleasure, she stumbled across her parents’ open bedroom door just in time to see Papa plunging an unwashed zucchini deep into Mama’s womb — the same zucchini Hannah had harvested that morning while murmuring prayers to Mary Mother of God to give her the fortitude to resist sinful temptations. Frozen in place by shock, Hannah’s bonnet slipped to the floor. Mama looked up, frowned, and threw an oil lamp at her. Papa laughed, the zucchini in tatters in his hand.”

I remember driving through Amish country during the spring, after a soaking rain. In the fields, two boys had hitched a plow-like contraption to horses and were whipping the horses into a gallop as they stood behind the great beasts, getting pulled around at a pretty good clip. Earth was flying up, and both of them were covered head to foot in mud which obscured everything but their wide, happy smiles. What a life, I thought. What boy today wouldn’t find that more fun than another blast em up round of Halo?

So what do the Amish think of Amish-themed porn romance novels?

Ms. Esh said some Amish customers snap up the Amish fiction she stocks, but others tell her they don’t like the way the books portray the community.

“There will always be people who say we’re getting too exposed,” said Ms. Esh, a 48-year-old member of the local Old Order Amish community.

Speaking of exposed, I recall the Amish girls were good-looking. Very fresh-faced and wholesome. Not too many fatties among them. There was the occasional ugly inbred mishap, but thanks to the Amish fashion sense those girls didn’t have to suffer the indignity of hotter, skimpier-dressed peers shoving their ugliness in their faces every minute of every day. Still, even with head to toe clothing covering all but their faces and hands, I was able to make fairly accurate assessments of the Amish women’s looks from many yards away. The power of male discernment of female beauty is a finely tuned instrument, indeed. The hyperjealous harem guarding Muslims know this, which is why they invented the burqa.

Amish mothers hit the wall hard, unfortunately. No MILFs in that community. It’s 30 and stick a fork in them, no exceptions. Living off the land must age a person faster.

Some Amish have nevertheless become avid fans. An Amish woman in Lancaster told Ms. Lewis that “all the women in our church district are reading your books under the covers, literally,” Ms. Lewis said.

Amish men, listen up! You’ve allowed a sliver of the heathen slut culture to invade your oasis. Your womenfolk are reading crass female porn under their bedcovers. And make no mistake, it is PORNOGRAPHY. Cheap thrills to tingle ginas. It’s just a small step from there to Amish women demanding equality in the fields and nagging you to do more housework. Then comes Amish feminism (6th wave? It’s all the same briny crap) and finally Amish bukkake. Give an inch, and they’ll make you yearn for the relative modesty of Rumspringa. If this doesn’t scare you straight, try picturing a guy like me seducing one of your bonnet-wearing daughters, my hand first touching her forearm, then her thigh, a neg lighting up her eyes, and a makeout behind the hay bales as I promise her a world of adventure and excitement.

During a recent visit, Ms. Woodsmall [non-Amish author of an Amish romance novel series] sat on a swing outside the Flauds’ [Amish couple with six children] 133-year-old farmhouse and peppered them with questions for her sequel to “The Hope of Refuge.”

“This is one of those questions I hate to ask,” said Ms. Woodsmall. One of her characters, a schoolteacher, wants to modernize some aspects of Amish education. “What are some things she might want to change?” Ms. Woodsmall asked.

The Flauds’ 13-year-old daughter, Amanda, piped up. “The bathrooms,” she said, explaining that many students at her school wanted to replace outhouses with indoor plumbing.

Some of her inquiries drew a blank. The Flauds couldn’t come up with Amish expressions for the word “quirky” or the phrase “women’s rights.”

The Amish will be the salvation of America, if there is to be one. May they continue pumping out kids at quadruple the rate of the SWPLs, post-integrity equalists, and warlord-wannabes who currently buttfuck themselves on the levers of power.





Comments


  1. The hyperjealous harem guarding Muslims know this, which is why they invented the burqa.

    Some scholars argue that the burqa and other accoutrements of female honor and chastity in Muslim societies were really developed and driven by women. In the hypercompetitive world of tribal and warlord competition for females, the females in turn doing their own parts in the sexual arms race came up with things like the burqa and other honor/chastity signifiers in order to earn the loyalty, protection, etc., from the men.

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  2. So what do Ghetto Novels mean for the world?

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  3. Roissy + Bonnet books = Brilliance.

    This made my day. Thank you for this analysis.

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  4. Also, on your point about romance novels and how easy they are to write, you know who wrote multiple best-selling Iraqi romance novels? Saddam Hussein.

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  5. to the amish i say: shine on you fecund diamonds.

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  6. Roissy, per your man-writign-romance-novels as a pseudo-female—–“ghetto” romance fiction has that.

    There is a strain of well-selling ghetto-sex novels, detailing black and pr female fanatasies—basically, being bitchy R&B/ Stripper stars caught between loving a ruthless drugkingpin and his handsome second-in-command. They almost all end in murder, tragedy, and lonliness.

    The biggest seller is written by a black man. Can’t remmeber his name, but def true, yo.

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  7. “Amish bukkake” … lmfao. Roissy-ized Amish rom-porn very funny.

    I guess short of a Waco-like armed compound, there’s no force other than cultural preference to isolate the Amish from the rest of the country, and the people there have the same sexual natures as people everywhere. So their splendid Witness-like purity was always doomed to be sullied.

    I wonder about supply and demand – Amish rom-novels actually seem like an odd direction for these to go, suggesting the genre is overhackneyed to the point of novelty-seeking gimmicks like this. in other words, if it’s so easy to write them and make money, there’ll already be enough people doing it in just enough numbers to clear the market.

    finally, here’s a classic Letterman top-ten list on a related theme:

    Top Ten Signs Your Amish Teen Is In Trouble
    10.Sometimes stays in bed til after 6am.
    9.In his sock drawer, you find pictures of women without bonnets.
    8.Shows up at barn raisings in full “Kiss” makeup.
    7.When you criticize him, he yells, “Thou suck!”
    6.His name is Jebediah, but he goes by “Jeb Daddy.”
    5.Defiantly says, “If I had a radio, I’d listen to rap.”
    4.You come upon his secret stash of colorful socks.
    3.Uses slang expression: “Talk to the hand, cause the beard ain’t listening.”
    2.Was recently pulled over for “driving under the influence of cottage cheese.”
    1.He’s wearing his big black hat backwards.

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  8. There was a good documentary (made in 2000) on nat geo about rumspringa. I’d read of this rite of passage, but never viewed it, except for a few Mennonites I discussed it with during a weird road trip.

    Modern technology has an increasingly profound influence on the Amish world and it won’t be long before it thins their ranks. Those kids immediately took to cellphones, TV and crystal meth faster than an aborigine to sexting on a 747.

    Ironic, how Amish are frequent targets of ridicule, yet internal denizens in square miles of cities coated in graffiti are not.

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  9. I recall the Amish girls were good-looking. Very fresh-faced and wholesome. Not too many fatties among them. There was the occasional ugly inbred mishap

    My observation too. Amercian girls, even when they have a nice thin body, still always have that athletic-like thinckness to their thighs. Hormones in phood? I don’t know.

    But Amish girls are similar to E. European ones, in that their young women have that girlish willowness that you rarely see in American girls.

    (read: it’s getting more diverse and distrustful as people greedily scramble for their slice of the taxpayer-funded pie)

    Ever notice how Stalin was more popular in the USSR than Clinton/GWB/Obsie are here? Freedom of dissent here vs. there aside, on some level, people will forgive their leaders the worst abuses, except one: being unwanted.

    Stalin did many horrid things and was a monster for the ages, but in rhetoric and deed, he never sought to replace the Russian people with someone else.

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  10. The Amish will be the salvation of America, if there is to be one.

    roissy,

    does this mean that you think we would be better off with 19th century technology as well as morals?

    [editor: better? no. happier? mmm, open to debate.]

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  11. “The Amish will be the salvation of America, if there is to be one.”

    good stuff, but i disagree with this point. the amish keep to themselves too much to be our saviors. it will likely be a group like the mormons that will turn the tide, if that happens.

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  12. Amish men reading this… why are you connected to the heathen internet?

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  13. Amish mothers hit the wall hard, unfortunately. No MILFs in that community. It’s 30 and stick a fork in them, no exceptions. Living off the land must age a person faster.

    That and the whole “six children” thing.

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  14. ha, the Mormons? Stereotypically, at least, their alleged polygamy is the stuff of sexless-beta hypergamy. Rich or alpha ends up with all the girls, the other males can rot.

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  15. “…and finally Amish bukkake.”

    I read somewhere that in Japan bukkake was originally a form of punishment for wayward women.Slut shaming,as it were.That is,until the shamers discovered that the victims actually enjoyed the experience.After which it became simply another raunchy diversion.Don’t know whether its true.

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  16. Tarl, I woudl agree, but the 6 kid thing is a myth modern porkers try to use to justify “losing their figure” after 1 child.

    In reality, women can lose child weight if they just stop eating like fatasses. My grandmother had 6 kids and was thinner (while also taller) than all her female children. My great-grandmother had 9 kids, and in all her picutres she is as thin as 20 year olds today.

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  17. “Early morning milking” – Elizabeth Randy

    Before dawn, I snuck into the loft of the barn so I could watch Nathaniel from afar. I saw him there as he milked the cows. Grasping each utter with his strong hands, Nathaniel teased each utter with the greatest care to ensure all the milk reached his pail. The cows hesitantly mooed as if they savored his gentle touch with every ounce of their being. “Oh” I thought to myself. “If only I were as lucky as those cows. If only he would squeeze my breasts and milk me.”

    Amish Porn. QFT

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  18. on September 11, 2009 at 3:37 pm ironrailsironweights

    egg white plus yohimbe- fueled money shots under cheap lighting

    I believe money shots use Ivory dishwashing liquid. A variation, used when oral ingestion is involved, uses the water left over from cooking pasta, thickened with corn starch.

    Peter

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  19. She wondered if

    his hands ached

    for the plow

    and if he missed

    dark furrows

    when distracted by

    her virgin

    hair which escaped

    her bonnet

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  20. thickened with corn starch.

    say it ain’t so! innocence… lost.

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  21. Show me thine ankle…

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  22. Maynard, the burqa in particular became popular in Afghanistan during conflict with the Russians. If they couldn’t see what a woman looked like, they were less likely to kidnap her. There was a lot of that going on.

    Generally though, hijab isn’t about competition with other women. It’s about decency, privacy, and being judged by one’s character and conduct rather than their looks. In modern countries, most girls who wear it are doing the minimum, so it doesn’t actually detract from their beauty. It just signals that they aren’t interested in casual sex.

    This is girls taking themselves *out* of the general competition, which is usually to imply that one is available for casual sex in order to get more male attention…to widen the net. Hijabis are filtering.

    One of the main reasons women encourage it is because they don’t want their daughters to be sending out slut signals. It isn’t to reduce competition. It’s to make sure the guys they’re “competing” for are marriage minded.

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  23. askjoe:

    very few mormons practice polygamy. their birth rates are well above replacement levels. they are generally financially well off. low crime rates. of course, their “world” is hard to crack as well, but the spillover effects of their career orientation and family values creates positive externalities for society. much more than the amish.

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  24. Good stuff…..men should read a romance novel and get some tips.

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  25. [editor: better? no. happier? mmm, open to debate.]

    i’m glad that you recognize the difference. there is a trade-off there that many people simply ignore.

    the issue is this: some people are just not equipped to deal with greater freedoms and more choice. so, what do you do? do you deprive those of us who are capable? do you force us all to live in a highly-structured, highly-repressed society?

    here’s a good example. in his healthcare speech, obama called healthy people who don’t buy health insurance irresponsible, because they refuse to subsidize the rest of the risk pool. i found that offensive; the implication that i am “gaming the system” because i’m not playing by his rules. i sure as hell don’t want to live by any amish rules, although maybe if g man is around to tell me where i can get custom amish suits and aston martin buggies.

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  26. Oh, yeah, Mormons rock. A lot of the rest of the country is occupied by exemplary people with strong morals based on a strong faith. Mormons, Christian Scientists, Baptists, etc. I wanted to point out the disparate male outcomes from the alleged polygamy of certain religions.

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  27. Yeah, Chuck, but don’t you know they don’t want gay marriage, believe divorce and cheating are bad, and have large families?

    They’re clearly evil (/liberal scumbag voice).

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  28. Chuck, the Mormon world is not really hard to crack at all. I lived in Utah for awhile, and they are very active recruiters. It’s just that if you’re not a Mormon, you’re kind of the odd ball there.

    If you want to join, all you really need to do is sign up. There’s lots of support for you once you do.

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  29. Nicole:

    i guess i should clarify. i’d never convert to mormonism or any other religion. so if one is unwilling to convert, their world is hard to crack. either way, the positive externalities are still there. i’ll free ride on those.

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  30. @ lurker, everyone

    How do ya’ll feel about Mormons or other deeply religious groups who don’t believe in premarital sex and/or believe in completely monogamous marriages?

    Just curious.

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  31. Good grief, roissy, didn’t you ever see “Witness”???!

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  32. LILGRL,

    I used to have a boyfriend who didn’t believe in pre-marital sex until I corrupted him. I understood where he was coming from religiously, but I mostly empathized with his plight. He wanted to do it; he was just plagued with religious guilt and an excessively moral upbringing.

    I think it’s a bit odd that the tradition persists in Western societies when marriage is occurring much, much later. It has to breed some hostility or aggression (redirected sexual energy). Also, it’s a principle of the thing: I can’t respect couples who are opposed to pre-marital sex, but will do everything else that lies outside vaginal intercourse.

    I don’t know how this ended up on the wrong thread.

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  33. Lilgirl, the day I answer your posts is the day tjf doesn’t troll.

    Sofia, have a bukkake cookie.

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  34. “very few mormons practice polygamy. their birth rates are well above replacement levels. they are generally financially well off.”

    Polygamy is a strategy for handling severe stress on the tribe or society. It’s emergency reproduction. Simpler animals resort to parthenogenesis when this happens, but humans aren’t capable of this. Polygamy made sense to the early Mormons, after a treacherous journey West, or to 7th-century Muslims, but it’s maladaptive in a prosperous society; it becomes a primary cause of stress.

    Contrary to the misogynists and casual sexers who propose that polygynous hypergamy is the “natural” state of affairs that women desire, this simply isn’t the case. Usually, when a society has a class of alpha males with many “wives” (chattel) those women did not freely choose their arrangement.

    The devolution of American sexual behavior into “soft polygamy” is a symptom (and cause) of general social failure. It reflects very badly on American women, and on the “alpha” men, but there isn’t some sort of evil naturally present in womens’ sexuality that’s responsible for it. Rather, it’s the result of a cultural implosion that has allowed a small set of evil men to throw a party while making a mess of their own generation.

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  35. Roissy, let me give you some for real advice about writing a romance novel-

    1) Don’t do it. You write well. Romance novel sales seem to have no connection with the writing quality. Wouldn’t it make more sense to stick to a genre that depends on your talent?

    2) If you write one, stay very closely inside an established genre. Women want half breed native americans, 19th century counts in capes, cowboys- the fantasy already exists on its own template. You just have to fill the template with some words.

    3) Join a romance writers/chick lit group. Read your stories aloud at said group. Need I say more?

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  36. Ladies and gentlemen, the mon-hating dyke is back!

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  37. Has anyone watched the Real World this past season? For some reason, I still can’t shake this habit from my teenage years.

    Anyway, this season has been an absolute amazing guide for why Game works and betas fail.

    One girl’s (biracial girl) long term BF was a classic insecure beta: always asking her what she was doing, complaining about her possibly cheating, crying that he missed her, saying “I love you” incessantly, and just in general, being a whiny loser.

    She came into the season saying he was “The One” for her. She dumped him after 3 months.

    Then, she IMMEDIATELY started getting with this other guy. He was a DJ (thus high status in Spring Break Cancun) and he negged her almost every chance he got. She also stated she attracted to him largely b/c of his confidence.

    She also would flirt with tons of guys and they would all put her on a pedastal (telling her how beautiful she was, etc…). She would tease them constantly, but she wouldn’t get with them.

    Finally, this one guy (Joey) was the biggest asshole towards this one girl (Hispanic girl) the entire season. He spit on her food, called her a bitch/slut, etc. She absolutely hated him with a passion. In the season finale, they have sex.

    Anyone else notice all this stuff?

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  38. Lurker,

    I don’t know what a bukkake cookie is or why you want me to eat it. But I like you, so sure since this is all virtual anyway.

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  39. JR

    Right wing crap mate.

    Your health system is fucked. Keep taking your “eternal youth solution” buddy, because once you have your 3rd bypass by 65, the best you will be able to afford is a ghetto doctor specialising in proctol exploratory surgery to remove crusted blow filled condomns from your ass.

    Maybe if that silly cunt Dubbya hadn’t fucked your country spending trillions on a stupid fucking war in EYEWANK, he would have had his eye on the economic puss infested ball that was about to hit the dumb cunt in his turgid face towards the end of his pachyglossal pandemonic presidency.

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  40. Sofia.

    I will take it you are serious.

    Bukkake is a woman being ejaculated on by several men at once – so you get the picture of what a cookie subjected to one might taste like.

    Actually, Victoria Principal will probably bring out a cum containing cream to fight aging. There is scientific evidence to back up that our manstuff is godd for your skin.

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  41. Cless:

    “Contrary to the misogynists and casual sexers who propose that polygynous hypergamy is the “natural” state of affairs that women desire, this simply isn’t the case. Usually, when a society has a class of alpha males with many “wives” (chattel) those women did not freely choose their arrangement.”

    i’m not going to speak for those who think women are naturally hypergamous, but i do agree human behavior and mating patterns are a reaction to underlying social characteristics.

    that’s why i’ve been looking a lot at operational sex ratios as an explainer for men and womens behavior. in america, the government messes with the de facto operational sex ratio, proxying for “males” and distorting the relationship. when there is a high sex ratio (more men than women), women become more hypergamous, *because they can*. it is in their best interests. we probably wouldn’t find this behavior in a society with really low sex ratios that haven’t been distorted by outside influences.

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  42. By the time JR has his third bypass surgery, you’ll still be waiting for your first appointment with a heart specialist, troll.

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  43. Troll? Because I have a different point of view.
    Dickhead.

    Ask Joe, eh. “Joe the Plumber”?

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  44. One, yeah I see this all the time. Generally, the bigger the A-hole, the more women want him. It’s very true of beautiful women, generally the more beautiful the woman, the more she wants the A-hole who acts like a total jerk to her.

    This, btw, ladies, is why you can expect oh so many jerks in your future as you age. Every other girl has helped turn even ordinary guys into all the jerk they can be.

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  45. Keep taking your “eternal youth solution” buddy

    Well if you don’t want to be called a troll, be a little more coherent than this.

    JR didn’t say he will never buy health insurance for the rest of his life. He said he shouldn’t have to buy it now. And he’s right.

    Maybe if that silly cunt Dubbya hadn’t fucked your country spending trillions on a stupid fucking war in EYEWANK, he would have had his eye on the economic puss infested ball that was about to hit the dumb cunt in his turgid face towards the end of his pachyglossal pandemonic presidency.

    And I’m not sure this counts as a point of view so much as a rabid diatribe angrily pounded out by the citizen of a country too weak to matter much to anyone.

    That’s the main reason why other countries hate America. If they were top dog they’d be fucking up even worse. But they don’t even have the opportunity because, for one reason or another, they could never get up here.

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  46. WO. I totally forgot that lurker had issues with me! It’s been too long.

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  47. Off topic and vituperative a troll makes.

    I don’t see how America’s health care would make other countries hate us, especially since the suckers stuck in single payer countries have to come here to pay for medical procedures denied to them in their own countries, usually out of their own tax depleted pockets.

    I find that totalitarians and socialists all over the world hate this country for good reason. We prove their pet statist religion doesn’t work.

    Off, off topic, if invading countries and *gasp* enhanced interrogation methods made countries hate us, it sure didn’t hurt North Korea, North Vietnam, or USSR’s credibility with these same people. It’s similar to the laws in America, it’s only illegal when a Republican does it.

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  48. Seeking Alpha,

    Who said I hate America? Fucking great country. Been there several times, even did six week roadtrip back in ’95.

    Rabid diatribe?! What! On the internet? On Roissy’s blog!(which I dig by the way or I wouldn’t be here).
    Jeezus, a rant – what a fucking concept!

    “………….the citizen of a country too weak to matter much to anyone”.

    Listen here you ignorant fuckface. Do your historical research. New Zealand has fought in every major conflict in modern history, including Korea and Viet Nam. Yes, Viet fucking Nam mate.

    Per Capita my country have had the one of the highest death rates defending the free world – so watch your fucking red neck nouth before I stick my virtual fist down it so hard next time you fart you will whistle.

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  49. Zunder – the former president spent a big bit of money on a war, the current one is pissing away piles orders of magnitude greater – for no discernable return at all.

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  50. I didn’t know lurker had issues with me either until just now. I’ve only ever sung his praises, but maybe this unsolicited aggression is just a(n effective) way of getting into my pants.

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  51. Thanks for your country’s service, Zunder, but even Gunnery Sergeant Tom Highway had to be put in the cooler when he started peeing in the mashed potatoes. Behave yourself, internet tough guy.

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  52. Listen here you ignorant fuckface. Do your historical research. New Zealand has fought in every major conflict in modern history, including Korea and Viet Nam. Yes, Viet fucking Nam mate.

    Didn’t say you didn’t fight, I said you didn’t matter. Do you think New Zealand’s involvement in any war turned the tide one way or another?

    It’s not your fault. I’m sure you guys are real tough buggers (with a soft spot for a soft sheep), but you’re just too small. If you and Australia get together, raise your birthrate to 6 or 7 kids per family, you’ve got the natural resources, space, and lack of land competitors to make it as a great power.

    As long as you keep politicians like Senator Steve Fielding around.

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  53. Zunder the dunder:

    “Your health system is fucked. Keep taking your “eternal youth solution” buddy, because once you have your 3rd bypass by 65, the best you will be able to afford is a ghetto doctor specialising in proctol exploratory surgery to remove crusted blow filled condomns from your ass.”

    —lol. Wrong. Stick to those liberal talking points though!

    One, America actually has the best medical system in the world. Our low rankings on “lifespan” are actually due to one statistic—death by violent crime—which is not the fault of doctors, because you can’t help someone who is dead. Once death-by-violent crime is eliminated, American quality of care exceeds everyone elses (including yours).

    Secondly and furthermore, the death by violent crime statistic is skewed worse in the U.S. by young black males. In other words, if you are not a young black male in america, you are infinitely better off than a resident of any country in the world.

    Third, the violent deaths of young black males in the US are almost exclusively caused by….young black males. So this is an intra-black community problem, not a racism problem.

    Fourth, you radically don’t understand American medical insurance if you don’t realize everyone over 65 is already covered completely by Medicare/Medicaid.

    “Maybe if that silly cunt Dubbya hadn’t fucked your country spending trillions on a stupid fucking war in EYEWANK,”
    —would you rather live in Iraq under Saddam, or now?

    Check and mate, bitch.

    “he would have had his eye on the economic puss infested ball that was about to hit the dumb cunt in his turgid face towards the end of his pachyglossal pandemonic presidency.”

    –Bush did not cause the economic downturn (which is part of the normal business cycle). Nobama didn’t either, but he’s made it worse and longer through his policies.

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  54. Oh, yeah, if only Bush had kept his eye on the economic ball. Like proposing to change the social security to fix the looming disaster or proposing to change Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac. Proposals that zealots in the DNC and ACORN helped shoot down (at least they didn’t bite off any fingers at that time).

    Furthermore, despite a war, Katrina, and ahem 9/11, he had the longest job growth period evah.

    Finally, the current economic crisis is the result of a loss of capital resulting from government backed mortgages and the investment instruments created by those mortgages going poof. Recessions are cyclic, depression are the result of bad decisions…i.e., FDR and Obama.

    Here’s some advice, Zunder, stop, take a breath and relax. Go outside, pay attention to your own country.

    Like


  55. “—would you rather live in Iraq under Saddam, or now?”

    Iraq under Saddam.

    Like


  56. Can we go back to talking about Amish girls?

    I once saw a 10 at an Amish market. Is it a sin to think dirty thoughts about an Amish girl?

    Like


  57. “—would you rather live in Iraq under Saddam, or now?”

    More like, depends whether I’m Shiite, Sunni or Kurd.

    Like


  58. Can we go back to talking about Amish girls?

    Am I the only one that has never seen one before? Where do they live? Pennsylvania?

    Like


  59. I interrupt Amish Love to bring you this important Alpha Update

    Tony Romo has picked his next blond babe much to the devastation of his last one (Miss Jessica Simpson). He has upgraded to Miss 22 year old Missouri 2008. 29 year olds everywhere are weeping with her.

    The chick is sister to Chase Crawford her older (23) brother actor on Gossip Girl.

    Alpha News reports Tony had broken up with the Simpson lass the day before her 29th b-day, they’d been together since 2007. He did wait a month before hooking up again. Awwwww.

    Like


  60. Seeking Alpha,

    Of course not as a nation. Only four million people.
    Why the sheep jokes?
    I just said America was a great fucking country (apart from a couple of your recent presidents) and you talk about sheep?

    Had our share of Alpha fucking war heroes mate.

    Britain would not have won the Battle of Britian were it not for this Kiwi, Keith Park http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Park

    Feyberg: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Freyberg,_1st_Baron_Freyberg

    Charles Upham: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Upham

    and our most recent Victoria Cross recipient (similar to your Congressional Medal of Honour) went to Willie Apiata, in AFGHANISTAN http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Apiata

    And that is just a short list………. I could go on

    Like


  61. Lurker, baby, why you gotta play hard to get?

    Like


  62. A HBD/socliological question: is non-violence an adaptive asset or liability for the Amish? When an Amish young man gets abused by some yahoos in “Witness,” he does nothing. But fake-Amish Harrison Ford kicks their asses.

    Two deal-breakers in any traditional-religious society I’d ever join: no beer and no fighting.

    Like


  63. “… [She] ran away from him in shame, her legs shaking the whole way like a dog shitting olive pits.”

    this is hilarious. goddamned hilarious.

    Like


  64. Am I the only one that has never seen one before? Where do they live? Pennsylvania?

    They’re everywhere, even in Guatemala. Yes, same German-stock Amish.

    In our neck of the woods, you can see them in rural Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. Just west of Philadelphia. Just avoid the city of Lancaster itself. A shitpile of a ghetto.

    Like


  65. “—would you rather live in Iraq under Saddam, or now?”

    Iraq under Saddam.”

    —wow. That may be the gosh-darn stupidest comment of the day. Including Zunder’s.

    Like


  66. But not surprising, given that dumb dyke’s logic.

    Like


  67. Iraq under Saddam was a peaceful, relatively prosperous, safe and orderly place, as long as you kept your moth shut on politics and didn’t get Saddam’s or one of his son’s attention.

    Iraq today is like the Wild West, except the Americans blow up your random relatives and confiscate the weapons you have to protect your home and family from murderous fanatics.

    Like


  68. Polygamy is a strategy for handling severe stress on the tribe or society. It’s emergency reproduction. Simpler animals resort to parthenogenesis when this happens, but humans aren’t capable of this. Polygamy made sense to the early Mormons, after a treacherous journey West, or to 7th-century Muslims, but it’s maladaptive in a prosperous society; it becomes a primary cause of stress.

    Contrary to the misogynists and casual sexers who propose that polygynous hypergamy is the “natural” state of affairs that women desire, this simply isn’t the case. Usually, when a society has a class of alpha males with many “wives” (chattel) those women did not freely choose their arrangement.

    The devolution of American sexual behavior into “soft polygamy” is a symptom (and cause) of general social failure. It reflects very badly on American women, and on the “alpha” men, but there isn’t some sort of evil naturally present in womens’ sexuality that’s responsible for it. Rather, it’s the result of a cultural implosion that has allowed a small set of evil men to throw a party while making a mess of their own generation.

    -someone who gets it. America is dead. I advise all unmarried / not in relationship beta males or males practicing higher principles to strongly consider finding wives in Eastern Europe, Latin America, Asia depending upon racial preferences. Screen them to make sure they have not been too influenced by American “culture.”

    While it is possible to meet some feminine/sane women in America, it is a difficult thing given the randomness of America’s mating (i.e chaos) system, and the likelihood that these women have been corrupted by “alpha” males (i.e sex addicts).

    Like


  69. @ lurker…wow. That may be the gosh-darn stupidest comment of the day. Including Zunder’s.

    No, think about it. Feminists are more intellectual window dressing for totalitarians, so she’d feel safe.

    Second, I don’t think she’d have much to fear from Qusay, Uday, or Saddam’s wandering rapacious eyes.
    IYKWIMAITYD.

    She’d be set.

    Like


  70. … except Americans or sectarian fanatics blow up your random relatives …

    Like


  71. “PA
    Iraq under Saddam was a peaceful, relatively prosperous, safe and orderly place, as long as you kept your moth shut on politics and didn’t get Saddam’s or one of his son’s attention.

    Iraq today is like the Wild West, except the Americans blow up your random relatives and confiscate the weapons you have to protect your home and family from murderous fanatics.”

    —behold, PA, I bring light unto your darkness:

    http://www.zombietime.com/vi_day/

    Like


  72. PA’s distortions:

    “Iraq under Saddam was a peaceful”
    —ask political opponents tortured, gassed Kurds, or Kuwait and Iran if Saddam was “peaceful.”

    “relatively prosperous,”
    –bleeding resources, needed to invade other nations to survive, needed to entertain Al Quaeda terrorists to gain monetary support.

    “as long as you kept your moth shut on politics and didn’t get Saddam’s or one of his son’s attention.”
    -so basically if you were too afraid to criticize anything going on. Great. sounds like heaven….or a police state gripped with an iron fist of fear.

    “except the Americans blow up your random relatives”
    —-change random relatives to “guys shooting at American troops patrolling for bombers” and you’re right.

    “and confiscate the weapons you have to protect your home and family from murderous fanatics.”
    —weapons used to kill American troops, not protect yourself from fanatics.

    Reading the daily kos comments board for news isn’t really kosher thinking there, buddy boy.

    Like


  73. Note how Zunder the dunder can’t argue back with facts.

    Now back to the Amish: fuck an Amish girl, or pass boys?

    Like


  74. Aside from being raped by one of Saddam’s family members, women seemed to have it better under Saddam’s rule.

    I don’t ordinarily think that a military dictatorship is better for women, but it is when the population is muslim.

    Like


  75. Roissy,

    Stop being such a big pussy and beta about it, and passive-aggressively and indirectly alluding to it. Just come out and say that you’re a White Nationalist.

    Like


  76. the dyke:

    “Aside from being raped by one of Saddam’s family members, women seemed to have it better under Saddam’s rule. ”
    —really. Unless you were kurdish, criticized him, and lvoed being poor.

    “I don’t ordinarily think that a military dictatorship is better for women, but it is when the population is muslim.”
    —lmao. Now we all see how the feminist mind truly works, and why they atatck Western Christiantiy (which has given them every freedom they now enjoy) instead of modern Muslim extremism (which locks them in chains).

    What a maroon.

    Like


  77. “One, America actually has the best medical system in the world. Our low rankings on “lifespan” are actually due to one statistic—death by violent crime—which is not the fault of doctors, because you can’t help someone who is dead. Once death-by-violent crime is eliminated, American quality of care exceeds everyone elses (including yours).”

    -Overall, perhaps. But considering the amount of money spent, America better have an effective medical system. The American government alone spends about 740 BILLION a year in health care (medicare/medicaid), accounting for the largest spending category of the government. Even with two wars and a global empire, military spending is still about 30 to 40 billion dollars less. Incredible.

    The key problem over government health care spending is that the money for this spending mostly does not exist – taxes in no way have covered all this spending. Hence a big part of the outrageous national debt. Because the U.S, through its previously valued treasuries, has been able to get away with insane debt build up, the health of its citizens has been in physically fine. But those days are over, hence Obama’s plan to cut 500 billion from Medicare/Medicaid (though I am not at all convinced that his alternate plan will be effective or that govt spending will actually go down, since Obama is running a 1.2 trillion dollar fiscal deficit currently)

    “Secondly and furthermore, the death by violent crime statistic is skewed worse in the U.S. by young black males. In other words, if you are not a young black male in america, you are infinitely better off than a resident of any country in the world.”

    -this may be a problem for the black community, but when it comes to healthcare, the most expenses are among the elderly in the last year of their life. And a lot of this is billed through Medicare, which again, is primarily a means for creating money that does not exist. Thus in reality, if it wasn’t for this fake money, America’s lifespan would be even lower as these seniors would have passed away sooner.

    “Maybe if that silly cunt Dubbya hadn’t fucked your country spending trillions on a stupid fucking war in EYEWANK,”

    -thats true, the wars have ramped up the spending of the government. Although having Iraq may be useful if the dollar drops even further (a possibility) to protect against soaring oil/gasoline costs that may result from such a devaluation.


    –Bush did not cause the economic downturn (which is part of the normal business cycle). Nobama didn’t either, but he’s made it worse and longer through his policies.”

    True. Things got really bad in the Reagan presidency. This chart should be seen by all Americans

    worse than the great depression!! Like I said, America is dead. It has long been dead culturally (hence the emergence of people like Roissy and the horrible types of women that result from them), now it is dead economically. It may reincarnate, it may not.

    Like


  78. So let me get the dyke and PA straight: you would rather live under a genoicidal, terrorist-befriending, autocratic murderous torturing general rather than in a free democracy?

    This is what liberalism is, people.

    Like


  79. I don’t know where yall have seen these slim, cute Amish girls. I have seen a couple with pretty faces, but most are plain and mannish, and the majority are on the plumper side. I used to live both in the Finger Lakes area of NY (fairly large Amish community) and in Lewisburg PA, where I went to an Amish market once a week. I make regular trips to the Lancaster area (now live right outside Philadelphia).

    PA is full of shit. You can’t tell whether their thighs are thick or not since they wear loose dresses from waist to ankle.. Since they have much more strenuous daily physical activity than your average field-hocky-playing college coed, I would imagine their thighs are very thick and strong indeed.

    I’ve read a hell of a lot of research papers on the Amish. Before age 40, they have slightly lower BMIs than American averages. After 40, women are slightly higher than average white people, men the same. 30% of Amish women older than age 40 are obese. They are a sturdily-built people who eat a lot of cakes and cookies.

    Like


  80. Stop being such a big pussy and beta about it, and passive-aggressively and indirectly alluding to it. Just come out and say that you’re a White Nationalist.

    i’m about as white nationalist as the chinese are han nationalist.

    Like


  81. askjoe, well said.

    freedom is dying all over the world….and the feminazis, dykes, and liberal pussies are glad to see it go, seeing as they figure to be the arm candy of power.

    Like


  82. A recent girlfriend told me about a book that she said every girl has read in secret but would rarely admit to. I had never heard of this book but according to her it was an underground thing among girls and young women: Flowers in the Attic. The controversy with the book deals with incest between a brother and sister. Now I have not done any research in this area, but this one girlfriend admitted to having some incestuous fantasies about an imaginary brother, and if it is true that this book is well read among women, although secretly, it is just another example of the hidden yet potent nature of unbridled female sexuality. The phenomena of this book, if true, reveals a lot about some of the hidden and still ineffable aspects of female sexuality.

    Bestiality and brother/sister incest are two realms that more than a few women in the past have admitted to me as being a forbidden, disturbing turn on for them. As of today they are still too taboo a topic for most people to admit to or even discuss, but they are out there. The mere mention of these things makes people very uncomfortable. Yet I think there is something going on out there that is still very secret and hidden. Just sayin.

    Women love what is dangerous, forbidden, threatening, frightening. As Roissy has more than demonstrated, women are attracted to violent, socially rebellious men. As Sophia mentioned on her blog, they love horror movies. They love their own version of porn, the romance novel, which always has that dangerous, reckless, even violent hero that makes their gina’s tingle.

    So even the Amish girls have their socially approved outlets for forbidden sexuality…

    And I know from my own experiences, how many women enjoy cheating on their husbands and boyfriends for the sake of danger, thrills, excitement, pleasure. It never ceases to amaze me. The bored girlfriend or wife is the easiest to seduce.

    Or the girl who wants to fuck her therapist and vice versa…how forbidden and naughty, how socially unacceptable.

    All of this shows how men in our society have made ther greatest mistake by putting women on a pedestal and idealizing them as these sexually pure creatures. They are not. In their own ways they have as many base desires as men.

    How I love women and how I love fucking them! I love it all, all the hidden, dirty little secretes of our artificially white washed society. Ah, the things people actually do behind closed doors, the things they fantasize about, all the little hypocrisies hidden in those socially respectable middle class homes…all those loving housewives who have cheated on their husbands with Racer X’s cock over and over again, telling me how much they despise their overworked, money drained husband and how much they loved getting fucked by me and how exciting it is, how they wrapped their legs around me while I fucked them endlessly while their husbands were away working hard for them and their whiny children and how they moaned and screamed with pleasure at the renewal of a passion that they had long ago lost for their fat, balding, smelly husbands…

    And I won’t even begin to mention all those girlfriends who have cheated on their stupid and ignorant beta boyfriends with me…hahaha. I love the beta boyfriend. The girl keeps him around because she knows he will never leave her, so he becomes a loyal social companion, someone to go to parties, clubs, movies with, etc. Yet in secret they fall in love with guys like me. And they love guys like me because I am hard to keep around. I have always needed my personal freedom, the freedom to explore the world, do dangerous things, fuck lots of women. My lack of availability is what makes them and keeps them so wet…Yeah.

    I am not saying it is right, but I am saying it is the way the world is.

    I love it all!

    Like


  83. X:

    “Overall, perhaps.”
    –Thank you for conceding the point.

    “But considering the amount of money spent, America better have an effective medical system.”
    –it does

    The American government alone spends about 740 BILLION a year in health care (medicare/medicaid), accounting for the largest spending category of the government. Even with two wars and a global empire, military spending is still about 30 to 40 billion dollars less. Incredible. ”
    —the U.S. isn’t an empire, it doesn’t have colonies. It has territories overseas (Guam/PR) that can leave if they arrange a vote for it. Iraq and Afghanistan are not colonies.

    “The key problem over government health care spending is that the money for this spending mostly does not exist – taxes in no way have covered all this spending.”
    –yes, and the fact that we already have a good system of healthcare.

    -“this may be a problem for the black community, but when it comes to healthcare, the most expenses are among the elderly in the last year of their life.”
    –Which, of course, is still the best int he world.

    “And a lot of this is billed through Medicare, which again, is primarily a means for creating money that does not exist. Thus in reality, if it wasn’t for this fake money, America’s lifespan would be even lower as these seniors would have passed away sooner.”
    –because that’s what we want….? And therefore if we cut all end of life spending off of every countries, will that satisfy your idea?

    -“thats true, the wars have ramped up the spending of the government. Although having Iraq may be useful if the dollar drops even further (a possibility) to protect against soaring oil/gasoline costs that may result from such a devaluation.”
    —sigh, Bush did not fuck up the country.

    “worse than the great depression!! Like I said, America is dead. It has long been dead culturally (hence the emergence of people like Roissy and the horrible types of women that result from them), now it is dead economically. It may reincarnate, it may not.”
    —if Nobama’s policies are reversed and stopped dead, taxes are lowered, and if Affirmative Action is stopped, it may.

    Like


  84. Women have fucked up fantasies. Fan fic is written largely by women, and concerns male friendships in fiction. Most female written fan fic has the men engaged in homosexual relationships, since women can’t understand male friendship.

    Like


  85. America spends more on health care because we can. That is, we don’t death panel the old fucks. Which is fine, they can afford it, they’re the wealthiest chunk of the country. Why not whine that America spends more money than any other country on NFL tickets?

    Like


  86. “And I won’t even begin to mention all those girlfriends who have cheated on their stupid and ignorant beta boyfriends with me…hahaha. I love the beta boyfriend. The girl keeps him around because she knows he will never leave her, so he becomes a loyal social companion, someone to go to parties, clubs, movies with, etc. Yet in secret they fall in love with guys like me. And they love guys like me because I am hard to keep around. I have always needed my personal freedom, the freedom to explore the world, do dangerous things, fuck lots of women. My lack of availability is what makes them and keeps them so wet…Yeah.

    I am not saying it is right, but I am saying it is the way the world is.

    I love it all!”

    -the words of a destroyer.

    This is what these “alpha’s” are – destroyers. When I write that, I really am not trying to convey a sense of moral or any other sort of disapproval. Not that they care.

    The seeds were set for their birth a long time ago, well before the sixties.

    Like


  87. i’m about as white nationalist as the chinese are han nationalist.

    So stop being so coy and gay about it. A little chinaman will be upfront and direct about it and tell you that he’s a han nationalist.

    Like


  88. “desperate for air”

    What, were they pinching each others’ noses shut too?

    On a side note, I find it interesting that “feministx” thinks that it’s okay for Muslim women to live under a military dictatorship. And this, ladies and gents, is why you don’t hear a whole lot from feminists these days about the way women in Muslim countries are treated. Modern feminists agree with Muslim men that women are less than human.

    Like


  89. “America spends more on health care because we can. That is, we don’t death panel the old fucks. Which is fine, they can afford it, they’re the wealthiest chunk of the country. Why not whine that America spends more money than any other country on NFL tickets?”

    Any country in the world can create money that doesn’t exist. This is what America does to spend on healthcare. The reason America got away with up until now is because of its military strength, its reserve currency status, and the fact that its consumer spending (with a lot based on credit – again, not real wealth) helped develop the economies of others buying its debt. Well now that those who bought the treasury bills have no intention of buying any more, where will the money come from?

    Interesting times.

    Like


  90. Cless

    Polygamy among the Mormons began well before they moved out West. Indeed, it was the main reason they did so.
    It is in the book of Mormon that Multi – Marriages are an obligation if men want the best afterlife.
    Your theory of “a few alpha men screwing up society” makes no sense in a world of unprecedented female empowerment. It is women who pick the sexual winners among men more than ever before on the basis of simple lust rather than “I need a guy to support me.”

    Like


  91. Yeah well, you know Lurker, one pussy you Americans should have put in power was Palin. My masturbatory habits haven’t been the same since she and McAin lost the election.

    The only politician in the West I’d consider jerking off to.
    She is just not on satellite tv enough now for me to get my fix. I’d put her at a 7.25 for attractiveness – which is not bad, considering most female politicians look like the haggard inside of a worm infested intestine. What the fuck Bill saw in Hilary I will never know. Stupid asshole could have had his pick of many and varied women, yet chose to have his pork smoked by a immature fat inturn.

    There are a few Amish / Mormon type communites downunder. One of our most famous Rugby players was a Mormon. In the Rugby culture of being hard as nails, drinking coupious amounts of beer, and fucking as many sports groupies sluts as possible, I have great respect that that he was able to pass up all those goodies and stay true to his culture.

    Be fucked if I could be so loyal.

    Like


  92. X:
    “Any country in the world can create money that doesn’t exist. This is what America does to spend on healthcare. The reason America got away with up until now is because of its military strength, its reserve currency status, and the fact that its consumer spending (with a lot based on credit – again, not real wealth) helped develop the economies of others buying its debt. Well now that those who bought the treasury bills have no intention of buying any more, where will the money come from?”

    —X, you forget that much of that “extra money” comes from people spending their own dollars—-including selling their house and liquidating savings—to get the care. So its not all Medicare/’caid driven.

    I agree the debt is a huge problem—and the massive inflation coming next year is going to be a result of it.

    Like


  93. @X,
    What the fuck are you talking about?
    Seriously?
    America just spent trillions on TARP, bailouts of UAW/GM, and Porkulus. That’s government spending on shit that doesn’t work.
    Healthcare is a profit center. It makes money, apparently, for all the bitching about insurance company profits.

    Like


  94. Chuck:

    “in america, the government messes with the de facto operational sex ratio, proxying for ‘males’ and distorting the relationship. when there is a high sex ratio (more men than women), women become more hypergamous, *because they can*. it is in their best interests. we probably wouldn’t find this behavior in a society with really low sex ratios that haven’t been distorted by outside influences.”

    I don’t think you can use the hypergamy problem as a case for libertarian politics. The US social safety net is very weak by European standards, and yet American women are worse on average than Europeans.

    If anything, liberal politics can improve mens’ position: green jobs to revive manufacturing, better unemployment benefits. (I don’t consider the man-hating family court system to be “liberal” so much as criminally out-of-touch. Alimony made sense in the bad old days when a man who divorced his wife was sentencing her, and his children, to poverty; it doesn’t now.) The Reaganoid disaster brought us much closer to winner-take-all capitalism than we were before it, putting half a generation into economic despair, and the behavior of women became worse during this same time. The disgusting behavior of modern Sex-and-the-City girls and alpha-jerks is analogous to Reaganoid conservatism, not liberalism. (These people may be liberal, but their stated political leanings are irrelevant; they are amoral and therefore choose the ideology that suits them.)

    Women don’t devolve into soft polygamy in the absence of some socioeconomic “stick” that we’d need to revert to an 1890s social model to bring back. They behave this way because American consumer “culture” has a vested interest in keeping young people misled, confused, and insecure. It declares ideal a body type that 90% of women are genetically incapable of attaining (and that is much skinner than most men prefer), tells women they have to both be successful AND date a more successful/alpha man, and encourages them to be sluts so as to avoid being seen as prudes. The result of this is so-called “soft polygamy”, but most American women aren’t evil SatC alpha-bitches so much as deeply hurt and misled, prevented by a mixture of deliberate malevolence (on the part of consumer culture) and their own ignorance from growing up.

    Like


  95. Note how Zunder has absolutely no logical comeback for facts, just more inane dribblings.

    tjf reborn, anyone?

    Like


  96. “On a side note, I find it interesting that “feministx” thinks that it’s okay for Muslim women to live under a military dictatorship. And this, ladies and gents, is why you don’t hear a whole lot from feminists these days about the way women in Muslim countries are treated. Modern feminists agree with Muslim men that women are less than human.”

    Are people rightly interpreting my statement?

    It’s better for muslim women to live under military dictatorships because militaries (as opposed to tribes or warlords) are based on a form of meritocratic secular order. The military seeks somewhat to equalize people and doesn’t chiefly see them as individuals or members or a race, gender or any other social category. They are just soldiers, promoted based on competence.

    A muslim society run by the military benefits from the social egalitarianism inherant in modern military structures. The totalitarianism of a military dictatorship protects women from the cultural incursions into their liberties that inevitably arise in Muslim societies.

    In case you didn’t catch the meaning, saying that only muslim women are better under military dictatorships is a pretty strong condemnation of Islam. Ordinarily a military dictatorship constricts freedom as opposed to other alternatives in a society.

    Like


  97. lurker

    Lilgirl, the day I answer your posts is the day tjf doesn’t troll.

    I have never trolled, whereas you have. The post I’m replying to is itself a (yet another) troll.

    Like


  98. Andrea Harris, too true.

    But remember: Dark skinned minorities always get a free pass from feminazis. Perhaps they all secretly want them, or believe that they aren’t a threat once the New Grrl Order gets in power.

    Feminism is the creationism of the left.

    Like


  99. the dyke:

    “Are people rightly interpreting my statement?”
    —better than you know, dyke.

    “It’s better for muslim women to live under military dictatorships because militaries (as opposed to tribes or warlords) are based on a form of meritocratic secular order.”
    —then they should all move to Cuba.

    “The military seeks somewhat to equalize people and doesn’t chiefly see them as individuals or members or a race, gender or any other social category. They are just soldiers, promoted based on competence.”
    —lmao. See Saddam and Castro’s “meritocracies” where not having the correct beliefs got you shot.

    Good militaries promote talent; corrupt ones promote based on politics/beliefs/who you paid off. Which one do you think Saddamm and Castro ran/run?

    “The totalitarianism of a military dictatorship protects women from the cultural incursions into their liberties that inevitably arise in Muslim societies.”
    —all those dead kurdish women and murdered dissidents nod in agreement.

    “In case you didn’t catch the meaning, saying that only muslim women are better under military dictatorships is a pretty strong condemnation of Islam.”
    —“Help! I have to back track quickly!”

    “Ordinarily a military dictatorship constricts freedom as opposed to other alternatives in a society.”
    —lmao. this lying dyke pees all over herself.

    Like


  100. “Overall, perhaps.”
    –Thank you for conceding the point.

    “But considering the amount of money spent, America better have an effective medical system.”
    –it does
    ======================

    Yes but if the costs of the system have gotten out of control, the system may disintegrate once the inability to pay rears its head.

    “the U.S. isn’t an empire, it doesn’t have colonies. It has territories overseas (Guam/PR) that can leave if they arrange a vote for it. Iraq and Afghanistan are not colonies.”

    Its not an Empire like the old European powers, but any country with over 30 foreign bases, interests in over 150 countries, spending $700 billion a year on its military, fighting TWO wars in places far from home, let alone with its “soft power”, can be considered an Empire. I personally do not consider this an immoral thing, but I still think the Empire’s costs should be brought down.

    ““The key problem over government health care spending is that the money for this spending mostly does not exist – taxes in no way have covered all this spending.”
    –yes, and the fact that we already have a good system of healthcare. ”

    Let me try this a different way… If you own a very nice car that you never should have bought because you did not have the money for it, you may for sometime be able to drive it around and boast about it being “very good” or “the best”, but since you cannot actually pay for it, you will likely lose it. The replacement for it is as of now a mystery.

    But I suppose that that only applies to those who obtain healthcare through medicare/medicaid, so yes for SOME who have private insurance it is a good healthcare system.

    ““And a lot of this is billed through Medicare, which again, is primarily a means for creating money that does not exist. Thus in reality, if it wasn’t for this fake money, America’s lifespan would be even lower as these seniors would have passed away sooner.”
    –because that’s what we want….? And therefore if we cut all end of life spending off of every countries, will that satisfy your idea?””

    We give other countries end of life spending??? And obviously, what we want may not coincide with what we are able to do.

    “”thats true, the wars have ramped up the spending of the government. Although having Iraq may be useful if the dollar drops even further (a possibility) to protect against soaring oil/gasoline costs that may result from such a devaluation.”
    —sigh, Bush did not fuck up the country.””

    No, but he made it worse. Although Obama may outdo him!!


    —if Nobama’s policies are reversed and stopped dead, taxes are lowered, and if Affirmative Action is stopped, it may.”

    hahahahahahaha.

    Like


  101. Racer X,

    Women who grew up in the 80s and 90s read Flowers in the Attic simply because it was there. There was nothing secret about it in my circle. It was written and popularized as a ‘young adult’ horror book, and while the material it dealt with was somewhat racy, it had little explicit detail.

    Not to say women don’t like sexy (and pervy) stuff from a young age – of course most of us do. But before the age of the internet we had very little access to it when young. I don’t think Flowers in the Attic is a good example of ‘how women have fucked-up fantasies’. Just keep in mind that there wasn’t any sexy stuff for us to get our hot little hands on in the 80s, the incest thing added some interest but it was hardly the motivation.

    There was a similar furor over Judy Blume’s novel Forever, which was hot and heavy with sex scenes – however the sex in that was vanilla and between BF/GF.

    “Most female written fan fic has the men engaged in homosexual relationships, since women can’t understand male friendship.”

    Or maybe it’s just that women find manly-acting homos hot, just like you guys love femme lesbians.

    Like


  102. Andrea Harris

    “On a side note, I find it interesting that ‘feministx’ thinks that it’s okay for Muslim women to live under a military dictatorship. And this, ladies and gents, is why you don’t hear a whole lot from feminists these days about the way women in Muslim countries are treated.”

    I think her argument is that women benefit from dictatorships insofar as they are protected from other men. If I were in the Middle East, although it’d be the lesser of two evils, I’d rather be a woman in a repressive theocratic dictatorship with an overall low crime rate than in a lawless hellhole where rape is commonplace.

    The evil’s at all levels; it’s not just the government that is abusive toward women in these societies. It’s many (obviously, not most or all) of the individual people. In many cases, law and government are progressive compared to peoples’ actual behavior. Just as the US has outlawed racial discrimination, although it still occurs; India outlawed the caste system and dowry (which leads to horrific abuse of women in parts of rural India) decades ago, but they still exist. China has outlawed sex-selective abortion, but this still occurs.

    This is why I don’t think we should “throw the baby out with the bathwater”, so to speak, regarding feminism. Feminism has done, on the whole, much more good than harm. Don’t get me wrong: divorce theft is a crime, female promiscuity is disgusting, and I can’t tolerate the entitled, untrustworthy women characteristic of the American mainstream. But one needs to put this in perspective: these issues are small potatoes compared to the horrors many women face on a daily basis.

    Like


  103. the same zucchini Hannah had harvested that morning while murmuring prayers to Mary Mother of God to give her the fortitude to resist sinful temptations.

    Religious history fail. The Amish are extreme Protestants back from when the “protest” part of that phrase actually meant something. Praying to Mary would be a Popish affectation at best and more likely serious heresy.

    I’m not even going to touch the biological improbabilities of thrusting a zucchini into someone’s womb. Poor Mama must be perpetually dilated…

    Like


  104. A) Feminist X is Indian. She would be heavily discriminated against if they’re like any other Ayrabs. Especially unmarried and alone. Perhaps grudgingly treated like an American depending on her conduct. And that’s probably not top notch treatment in Iraq either.

    B) Plenty of reason why Iraq needed to change, but It wasn’t an advantageous move for the US in any way at all. Excuses fed to the public were flimsy and changed from minute to minute. I really don’t think it can ever be a foreign power’s fault that a liberated country chooses to immerse itself in civil unrest rather than progress.

    C) Romance novels: anyone who wishes to comment on the difficulty of penning a modernly publishable and sellable romance novel must pen one immediately, then return with feedback after hmm… a week? a month? oh, take two months am feeling generous today! It’s only easier to crack if you do have an intimate understanding of what makes women tick, or have extensively read romance novels yourself.

    Of course sales depend on quality but it is quality as measured by a female readership wanting the romantic thrill. It would make sense for a master of Game to understand and learn this well enough to hit all the right buttons.

    Romance novels (and I guess the easiest way for you lot to understand them is by calling them chick porn) is a huge market as you would expect. (Lurker: just to be clear on the modern definition in case there’s any confusion. They must, must have a happy ending.) There’re lines and plots that cater to certain ‘fetishes’ (I don’t know. Say businessmen. Or doctors. Or Navy SEALs. Or NASCAR drivers. Yeah, I don’t get the last one either) and there’s also high end quality or original writing. Romance novels serve a variety of purposes but the main commonality is being all female-sexuality/psychology-targeted. They seem to help marriages rather than hinder but I suppose it depends.

    But I do agree that their infiltration into an Amish community Is Not A Good Sign. The outside world intrudes, indeed.

    Like


  105. X:
    “No, but he made it worse.”
    —No, X, I disagree. I think he made mistakes, but the country is better because of Bush. But that will take a lot of hsitorical argument and Nobama’s eminent failure to show.

    Bonnie:
    “Or maybe it’s just that women find manly-acting homos hot, just like you guys love femme lesbians”
    —lmao. If you notice, Bonnie, men love bisexual girls—lesbians who invite guys into the 3some. Women are mystefied by homos—they can’t understand men who don’t want them—and can’t understand men who are friends with other men but don’t chatter like starlings on crack with them, as women do.

    Cless Alvern:
    “Feminism has done, on the whole, much more good than harm…. these issues are small potatoes compared to the horrors many women face on a daily basis.”
    –beta.

    Like


  106. Lurker,

    You are obviusy a Bush loyalist.
    Good for you.

    You can go eat barbecued Buffalo Oysters with him on his ranch and talk about Liberal pussies to your hearts content.

    You make the mistake of thinking that anyone who is not a Bush fan is automatically a radical left wing liberal feminazi sympathising tree hugger.

    You make the mistake of thinking they MUST also be an Obama fan, a “America Hater”, and all sorts of other ignorant claims, because someone dare say that the Village Idiot from Texas just about fucked your country, in what should be prosperous times?

    Or any attempt to nationalise such a basic right as access to healthcare as some attempt at a communist uprising.

    And the war in Iraq? Give me a break. You really believe that was all about ridding the world of a tyrant? You can not be that thick, surely?

    http://www.hornyamishwives.com/

    Like


  107. Bhetti, you’re right, I think NASCAR has pushed romance novels themed around race car driving. NASCAR has tried to push the sport among middle aged women–they had a commercial where 4 mommy types lust after dale jarrett.

    NASCAR is basically trying for the NBA-status, having beaten the NHL.

    Like


  108. Correction:

    I really don’t think it can ever be a foreign power’s fault that a liberated country chooses to immerse itself in civil unrest rather than progress.

    Eh, why did I say that. I meant I blame the country for doing that to itself, even if a foreign power enabled it. Yes, foreign interference does play a part but more from previous interventions than the “liberation” anyway.

    Like


  109. If women have fucked up fantasies, it’s because we’re taught to repress our sexuality, so it expresses itself in weird ways.

    Like


  110. lovelace:
    Praying to Mary would be a Popish affectation at best and more likely serious heresy.

    yeah i know. i just like the sound of “mary mother of god”. so sue me.

    I’m not even going to touch the biological improbabilities of thrusting a zucchini into someone’s womb.

    purple prose license.

    zunder:
    Or any attempt to nationalise such a basic right as access to healthcare

    healthcare is not a right. healthcare *can’t* be a right.

    Like


  111. Zunder the dunder:

    As a beginning note, Zunder has once again to challenge my facts or offer his own.

    “You are obviusy a Bush loyalist.”
    —nope, I argue facts. I disagreed with deficit spending, Katrina response, and other things.

    “You can go eat barbecued Buffalo Oysters with him on his ranch and talk about Liberal pussies to your hearts content.”
    —lol. Bush is far too nice a man to talk about liberal pussies. I, on the other hand…

    “You make the mistake of thinking that anyone who is not a Bush fan is automatically a radical left wing liberal feminazi sympathising tree hugger.”
    —said the braindead pussy regurgitating left-wing talking points about Busha nd US healthcare.

    “You make the mistake of thinking they MUST also be an Obama fan, a “America Hater”, and all sorts of other ignorant claims, because someone dare say that the Village Idiot from Texas just about fucked your country, in what should be prosperous times?”
    –Bush did not fuck up the country, Bush did not cause the recession. Economics 101.

    “Or any attempt to nationalise such a basic right as access to healthcare”
    —please find the article in the US constitution that describes healthcare as a basic right.

    And note: the term welfare in the preamble does 1) not refer to healthcare (because the founding fathers wrote it and would have laughed at you; and 2) inoperative anyway (the preamble is merely a flourish and does not describe rights or powers)

    “as some attempt at a communist uprising.”
    –inventing rights not in the constitution to fuck up the best healthcare system in the world is a commie fuckup, dingbat.

    “And the war in Iraq? Give me a break. You really believe that was all about ridding the world of a tyrant?”
    —yes.

    “You can not be that thick, surely?”
    –considering you offer no evidence to show it is anything but, yes, dummy.

    Like


  112. in what decade or culture were you taught to “repress” your sexuality? has anyone been taught that since like 1972?

    Like


  113. If women have fucked up fantasies, it’s because we’re taught to repress our sexuality, so it expresses itself in weird ways.

    no that’s not it. if anything, women are “taught” to wallow in their sexuality.

    the real reason women have what looks to men like fucked up fantasies is because… women’s fantasies are fucked up!

    Like


  114. Sofia, Jezebel quoting the Guardian????

    Come on. That’s like Michael Moore quoting Fidel Castro. Its like 2 levels of unreliability.

    Like


  115. @bonnie – Just keep in mind that there wasn’t any sexy stuff for us to get our hot little hands on in the 80s, the incest thing added some interest but it was hardly the motivation

    I thought you were 22ish?? Do I have the wrong chick? You seem pretty knowledgeable for the time period is why I’m asking.

    Like


  116. Wallow in our sexualities in what way? Using it as a defining point of our value? There’s a difference between seeing it in economical terms (versus pleasurable ones).

    We have poor ego boundary structure. We don’t learn to see ourselves as individual until much later than boys do. This has a whole bunch of psychologically tiered implications, mainly involving maternal resentment.

    And finally, lurker acknowledges my existence. I can’t vouch for the reliability of the source, but it does seem probable that rape would occur in those kinds of insular communities, just like it does elsewhere.

    Like


  117. Sofia, the article is by two liberal organizations and just “happens” to show that religious, conservative groups are rife with rape?

    C’mon, that seems a little too convenient for their worldview.

    Like


  118. Sofia: I’m pretty sure everyone with an active sexuality has really wierd fantasies if both you and they dig deep enough. I don’t think we’re taught to repress our sexuality (eh, feministspeak), it’s just part of being a woman to approach your sexuality different from men and attempt to exert control over it especially. And yes, perhaps women try to curb each other.

    Still, you can’t tell me male sexual fantasies look ‘normal’ to you. Their Otherness is definitely fodder for the feminists.

    I don’t think having strange sexual fantasies automatically makes you screwed or crazy in some way. It’s how they translate to real life behaviour.

    Like


  119. roissy

    healthcare is not a right. healthcare *can’t* be a right.

    It’s a right if the government decides it’s a right.

    Like


  120. Roissy opined – “the real reason women have what looks to men like fucked up fantasies is because… women’s fantasies are fucked up”

    I know eh!

    Like


  121. How can a sufferer of Bush Derangement Syndrome possibly accuse someone of being a Bush lover? I mean, look at the devoted disciples of Obama. What the fuck? we’re just sticking up for a guy who thought that it was unpresidential to be continually bitch about critics and actually respond to them.

    Here’s a clue. America has dominated the world scene because it has rejected all the stuff you believe in. Once we adopt statist rhetoric, the same crap will happen to us. Since, we are the last real fortress for freedom, it’s a bad thing to let happen. If you really, really don’t want to live in a country where other people aren’t forced to pay for your shit, go to a different country.

    Like


  122. Didn’t Roe v. Wade state that the government has no right to interfere with your body?

    Like


  123. I blame my dad for my fantasies. Ewwww not THAT way. Gawd.

    He left a couple of very interesting bondage books around. Okay fine they were hidden deep in my parents bedroom, but I read them. I was 12. They were kinky, capital K. Warped my precious little mind they did.

    Wish I hadn’t been eating pickled beets while I read them or my mom wouldn’t have had to re-hide them. I learned my lesson though – don’t eat and read.

    Like


  124. Roissy,

    “healthcare is not a right. healthcare *can’t* be a right”.

    OK – expand on that. I’m listening.

    Because, is this not what our forefathers in the west fought and sacrificed themselves for? What is the most basic right of a person living in the free world other than a right to health?

    Is health not your birthright? Assuming everyone (should) is paying taxes, then if your tax dollars can’t even assure you (I say “you” as a generic term for all americans) of basic healthcare without having to pumping your hard earned dollars into some Insurance company with a habit of bringing out the finest of fine print in order not to be able to fess up with the insurance money when you really need it (anyone ever had this happen?) then is national coverage such a bad idea?

    Maybe Obama is not going about it the right way, granted, but why is thee basic concept so wrong?

    Like


  125. @ Bhetti

    Still, you can’t tell me male sexual fantasies look ‘normal’ to you. Their Otherness is definitely fodder for the feminists.

    SRSLY.

    Men and women are different, we have different fantasies, different things make us tick, blah blah blah etc. deal with it.

    Like


  126. rights are free.

    Like


  127. Note how Zunder still refuses to answer with any facts, or refute my own.

    “Because, is this not what our forefathers in the west fought and sacrificed themselves for?”
    —No

    “What is the most basic right of a person living in the free world other than a right to health? ”
    —Anything not in the US constitution is not a US right. Rhetoric won’t change that.

    They fought for freedom, nto rights—freedom to worship, fredom of speech, freedom to make their own way and save themselves.

    Find me the settler who settled the west because they wanted a free doctor, troll.

    “Is health not your birthright?”
    —no.

    “if your tax dollars can’t even assure you (I say “you” as a generic term for all americans) of basic healthcare”
    —not a job of the government, wacko.

    “without having to pumping your hard earned dollars into some Insurance company”
    –whose workers also work hard.

    And you can pay for your own healthcare without insurance, moron.

    “with a habit of bringing out the finest of fine print in order not to be able to fess up with the insurance money when you really need it (anyone ever had this happen?) ”
    —lol. crazy anecdotes you heard from a scoialist newspaper do not an argument make, nor do they disprove the fact that most people like their insurance companies.

    “then is national coverage such a bad idea? ”
    —Yes. We have the best in the world already. Case closed.

    “Maybe Obama is not going about it the right way, granted, but why is thee basic concept so wrong?”
    —because 1) the US market drives the innovation that you live off of. 2) the us healthcare system kicks yours ass precisely because it is more privatized.

    End scene.

    Like


  128. Bonnie,

    You attributed two quotes to me that came from Lurker. I never said women have “fucked up fantasies”, although I think they often do, nor did I say anything about homo porn and how that might appeal to women, although I know it does to many.

    And I find women’s fucked up fantasies a huge turn on. One girl I used to fuck would enjoy role playing an incest fantasy with me, pretending I was her brother. Totally fucked up but it totally turned her on too. There is nothing like tapping into that dark side of female sexuality. A girl with fucked up fantasies will go places with you sexually that some other girls may not…

    And I find it interesting how the incest part of Flowers in the Attic is being described here in terms not too strong, such as “racy” . Yup, the girls enjoy reading that forbidden stuff: brother/sister sex, etc. I bet a lot of that goes on in real life but no one talks about it.

    Like


  129. Zunder: just because you want something for free doesn’t make it a right or a good idea.

    Like


  130. aoefe: You have to be predisposed to that sort of thing e.g. DA would experience probably same fantasies but a normal male would experience dominant role etc. and some others would just be like ‘mostly not my thing’ and leave the books alone.

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  131. Zunder, roissy doesn’t need to expand on it because the point is blidningly obvious that if it were a light, it would be the sun.

    Like


  132. Bahahaha, I love it when neocons/phonycons like lurker talk tough. Go back to the Democrat party where you’re ilk spawned, chickenhawk Jewboy.

    Bush aided in fucking up America by promoting more big goverment than Clinton ever did, by importing millions of illegal immigrants and attempting to give them amnesty, by fighting proxy wars for Isreal etc. Obama will just further this decay.

    The GOP has been moving leftward since the second Reagan term and is now largely indistinguishable from the Dems

    Like


  133. Cheeses:

    “Bahahaha, I love it when neocons/phonycons like lurker talk tough.”
    —Meaningless insults.

    “Go back to the Democrat party where you’re ilk spawned,”
    —-eh? The day I vote Democrat is the day they’re pro-life.

    “chickenhawk Jewboy.”
    —Not Jewish, thanks for playing.

    “Bush aided in fucking up America by promoting more big goverment than Clinton ever did,”
    —I didn’t like his expansion, but it didn’t fuck it up. CLinton would have brought more if nto constrained by a right-wing congress.

    “by importing millions of illegal immigrants”
    —he didn’t.

    “and attempting to give them amnesty,”
    –Bush tried, but other republicans fought him

    “by fighting proxy wars for Isreal etc.”
    –sigh. Iraq and Afghanistan were not proxy wars for Israel.

    “Obama will just further this decay.”
    —even a blind squirrel..

    “The GOP has been moving leftward since the second Reagan term and is now largely indistinguishable from the Dems”
    —except on healthcare, international affairs, illegal imigration, tort reform, monetary policy, etc…..

    Learn soemthign about world politics and then come talk to me, boy.

    Like


  134. Zunder,

    A number of Americans feel that if something is not specifically enumerated in the Bill of Rights (i.e. the 1st through 10th Amendments), or in some other Constitutional amendment, then it’s not a right…or at least it’s not a federal right. Under this theory, health care, and many other things you might consider rights are not rights.

    Like


  135. Health Care as a Right:
    Until there is a widely acceptable definition of “health care” this is an utterly meaningless phrase.

    Like


  136. Off Topic but definitely warrants a post of it’s own:

    Basically she’s seeking the father of her cute little baby (in the video) – she goes on to say how they met, she was charmed and they went back to her place and banged.

    She doesn’t even remember his name, but in her own words “I’m not a bimbo or something like that, I know that August (the baby) is yours because I haven’t been with anyone else since that night.”

    Game at it’s finest/ugly realities of humanity at their worst?

    Like


  137. if you non-american turds are so big on health care as a right, why do your systems deny it so regularly. In one instance, Canada ruled their system to be uncanadastutional or some such nonsense…

    Get over it, worry about your own country.

    Like


  138. One rule of this blog: the chance that the discussion will diverge into some political/racial area is directly proportional to the number of comments. The rate at which it does so is heavily dependent on various cues and ideas in roissy’s post, but those posts that contain commentary on broad societal trends tend to greatly enhance the rate.

    Like


  139. ASF:

    So, if the Bill of Rights said: “Every fifth boy born to a family shall be made into a transvestite in order to help momma do the cooking and the housework” then that would be OK?

    Such loyalty.

    Anyway – are not the Bill of Rights amendments to your Constitution? If so, that means they can still be amended (for good or bad) right?

    Like


  140. Funny stuff. Romance novels are ripe for parody. I tried to pick one up in my early 20’s just to see what all the fuss was about. It was so -bad- that I couldn’t read more than 50 pages of the thing. I threw it away. I mean awful, hoary, over-the-top, cinderellaesqe baloney. Women should be ashamed. Porn is at least honest, but the romance novel is just what one would think it would be: hypergamy-personified as the average-unrecognized beauty gets the guy that all the alpha-girlz secretely desire and they have a forbidden affair, and she gets to keep him for herself because out of all the pussy that secretely wants his badboy self, only she can please him and hold him to her unsurpassable charms. After he forswears all other ho’s, and the two of them navigate the choppy waters of the unfair world and her newly-insanely jealous rivals, they live happily ever after.

    My old pal once said (again):

    Every girl wants a bad boy she can tame, and every guy wants a nice girl he can corrupt (but only would be corrupt in his bedroom with him).

    He was right, and he distilled it down to a sentence.

    Like


  141. PA:

    A HBD/socliological question: is non-violence an adaptive asset or liability for the Amish? When an Amish young man gets abused by some yahoos in “Witness,” he does nothing. But fake-Amish Harrison Ford kicks their asses.

    I’d say it’s been an adaptive asset so far. Right now, obviously, the greatest danger that hangs over their heads are not the local yahoos, but the possibility that the powers-that-be might decide that their way of life is too un-PC to be tolerated. (After all, they are white traditionalist Christians, so any sympathy they get on multiculturalist grounds is limited and uncertain.) Of course, there are many obvious ways how the government could destroy their community through legal and policing actions if it wished to do so.

    In this regard, their pacifism and political passivity is definitely an asset. It certainly makes them dearer to the PC establishment, which is thus more inclined to view them through the multicultural/environmentalist/noble savage prism, rather than as a subtype of the hated redneck/Christian fundamentalist species, thus reducing the possibility that they might find themselves designated as enemies. On the other hand, a more aggressive attitude would ruin the favorable image on which they critically depend, and give them nothing in return. If they seemed willing to engage in armed confrontation, I don’t think that would deter a hostile U.S. government at all. They would get the Waco treatment expressly.

    Like


  142. @ z

    Porn is at least honest, but the romance novel is just what one would think it would be

    “just what one would think it would be”

    Are you trying to argue that romance novels are not honest? Fail.

    Like


  143. Ah, Zunder, so stupid, so cowardly:

    “So, if the Bill of Rights said: “Every fifth boy born to a family shall be made into a transvestite in order to help momma do the cooking and the housework” then that would be OK?”
    —it woudl be the law of the land.But it wouldn’t likely come to pass, given that 3/4 of all states have to vote in favor it.

    “Such loyalty.”
    –Yes, we call that “law-abiding” in our country.

    “Anyway – are not the Bill of Rights amendments to your Constitution?”
    —what is with all the Thomas Paine crap? Yes, they are.

    “If so, that means they can still be amended (for good or bad) right?”
    –Yes. One s.c justice has famously opined that he believes the 5th Amendment’s clause on self-incrimination should be removed.

    Good luck on that. And getting 3/4 of the freedom-loving us to vote for socialized medicine, put people out of business, an ruin our healthcare system

    Like


  144. ASF:

    “A number of Americans feel that if something is not specifically enumerated in the Bill of Rights (i.e. the 1st through 10th Amendments), or in some other Constitutional amendment, then it’s not a right…or at least it’s not a federal right.”
    —check the 10th Amendment, ASF. Its not that we feel this, it is the fact that it is the law of the land under the 10th Amendment.

    “Under this theory, health care, and many other things you might consider rights are not rights.”
    –yes. this is done to prevent a little thing called tyranny of the majority or “mob rule.”

    Like


  145. Lurker,

    Would you support eliminating Medicare and the VA?

    Like


  146. In a nutshell: to a leftist “a right” is whatever they say is “a right”.

    End of argument. Their brilliance and goodness is self-evident.

    Like


  147. ASF, irrelevant and unknown at this time. Probably not without grandfather clausing them in, given that people now rely upon them, and have paid their terms to earn them.

    However, they are certainly not “rights” under the constitution. They may be rights granted to certain individuals granted under contracts, but no whee int he US Const. do you geta free lunch.

    JB, well said.

    Like


  148. “Would you support eliminating Medicare and the VA?”

    VA can be viewed similarly to employer-based insurance.

    Medicare is taxation based. Grandfather in those roped into it and release others into other private funding schemes. Regardless, by the time we need to worry about it we’ll all have robot slave doctors.

    Like


  149. Zunder
    You are so not from here.
    The Bill of Rights was the first 10 amendments to the Constitution but they are integral with it because it was all accepted as a package at the same time and by the same voters. The US Constitution defines a fairly strong central Government, something Americans have never been entirely comfortable with. The Bill of Rights puts firm limits on what Government can do in pursuit of its policies. There would have never been one without the other. None of these enumerated rights have anything to do with entitlements for citizens.

    Like


  150. JB, here here. I would keep the VA as a benefit for dangerous work, since the military doesn’t pay much and its a fair bargain for putting your life on the line.

    Like


  151. z: “Women should be ashamed.”

    For what, exactly? You could be talking about a lot of things and one would like to give you the benefit of the doubt.

    Romance novels are parodied! Regularly and by the readers themselves.

    About being able to finish something: from what I’ve heard of pornography… (ew? and do you know why? I’m not a man! I still don’t think you’re sick but a normal MALE).

    Anyway, do you want them to be censored, then? Would you rather portrayals of sex, relationships and love be limited to other media? What do you want? What? Do you want female circumcision?

    Ashamed of themselves. It isn’t femspeak to call that thought a disgusting one, simply for the nature of the work rather than a) flaunting it maybe b) specifiying any other resentment against women you were linking to it (were you traumatised by many women are superior lectures?) c) this ‘hiding’ notion.

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  152. Rum: ‘None of these enumerated rights have anything to do with entitlements for citizens.”
    —true, although the s.c. has extended the 6th Amendment to give you a free lawyer in a crimminal matter. And one could argue the 5th amendment “gave” you Miranda warnings.

    But these are not entitlements, agreed.

    Like


  153. Rum, Zunder isn’t from this universe. in this one, we require logic. And facts.

    Like


  154. Vlad, very good analysis of Amish nonviolence being an asset. Of course, your explanation applies to the quirk of our times, as a kind of camouflage, or good PR, against a potentially hostile political system. Was this “good PR” a factor behind their nonviolence in earlier times?

    I agree, the “local yahoos” pose no threat to the Amish. There are no Amish-bashing local yahoos, except in the imagination of Hollywood. The real danger is either our political/media complex, or a culture of libertinims infiltrating their society.

    Like


  155. Lurker,

    But the point is, as you say, they aren’t rights. Did you sign a contract indicating your willingness to pay for Medicare? I know I didn’t. No one did. It’s a “social contract,” but not a real one. Why should I pay for your parent’s health care when they turn 65? Why should you pay for mine?

    Your argument for the VA is a moral argument. However, not everyone in the military is in equal danger. Should all the guys who don’t see front line combat get the same health care if they don’t risk as much? Certainly generals are not in much danger at all.

    Also, since the military is a volunteer organization now, shouldn’t people who enlist be their own judge as to whether the risk is worth it? If not enough people enlist, the government would be forced to raise salaries, perhaps to mercenary levels, who make easily in excess of $100K in private companies. I think the military could use a bit more free market mechanisms.

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  156. Bhetti

    I doubt Roissy or anyone would say that Romance Novels were worse than guy porn. It is just that they are no better or even more complex.
    As for the Amish, they and others like them have been in America forever. Lots of WASP Americans have some residual understanding of their worldview because some of it was in the DNA of the culture until fairly recently.
    Most of the world does not have even that insight into how such people think.

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  157. I doubt Roissy or anyone would say that Romance Novels were worse than guy porn.

    See exhibit a?

    Heh.

    Like


  158. So stop being so coy and gay about it. A little chinaman will be upfront and direct about it and tell you that he’s a han nationalist.

    You like baiting, dontcha? A Han chinaman fears no reprisals for saying he is a Han nationalist. But he’d be more circumspect about saying that he is a Falun Gonger.

    It’s kinda opposite in this country.

    Like


  159. ASF, agreed, however the military guys sign for their jobs knowing that the VA is part of the deal. SO it is a contractual thing in that respect.

    “But the point is, as you say, they aren’t rights. Did you sign a contract indicating your willingness to pay for Medicare? I know I didn’t. No one did. It’s a “social contract,” but not a real one. Why should I pay for your parent’s health care when they turn 65? Why should you pay for mine?”
    —No, I think there is agreement there. Its not a right. However, we do pay into the system all our lives with that promise; it may be foudn to be a contract ina court, should we fight it.

    The safest way to remove it would be to grandfather anyone who’s paid into it through. But removing it would take a long time, given that we have developed to depend upon it.

    Think of it this way: if all retirement were private (no S.S.) then we’d have much more sophisticated retirement systems right now. But because we don’t we have become dependent on SS, which, of course, retards that development.

    “Also, since the military is a volunteer organization now, shouldn’t people who enlist be their own judge as to whether the risk is worth it?”
    —Yes, and also what the contracual benefits are.

    “If not enough people enlist, the government would be forced to raise salaries, perhaps to mercenary levels, who make easily in excess of $100K in private companies. I think the military could use a bit more free market mechanisms.”
    –perhaps raising salaries and forgoing benefits would be better, agreed. but that’s a contractual negotiation to be made.

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  160. PA,

    I’m not baiting anyone, faggot. I’m a WN, and it annoys the fuck out of me to see anonymous bloggers who pretend to be hard-hitting and frank realists not even have the balls to speak up and instead talk around shit like little girls.

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  161. Bhetti and Lil’Girl,

    Let me put it to you this way:

    Try to imagine if the sexual roles in romance novels were reversed. Normal guys getting the love of super-hot mega babes (who just happen to own their own publishing/manufacturing/transportation/communication) companies.

    These are normal bespectacled balding cubicle office geek guys, who through an act of kindess (holding open a door, being a good listener-LOL, standing up to someone berating her in argument, washing her car, saving her puppy), get the attention of a mega-babe. She tells him how her abusive dangerous stuntman boyfriend mistreats her and ignores her for weeks on end, and he tells her some horseshit like “you lips are the most kissable looking things in the whole universe”, and they passionately make out and end up having a torrid affair. However her professional and social peers dissapprove and they have to overcome massive social and financial obstacles for their love to be socially accepted. The do of course, and live happily ever after, and have three children who are so beautiful they are featured in ad campaigns.

    Tell me how the ridiculous paragraph above is all that different from many romance novels. Because we all know it isn’t. They are “porn-for-women”. But they are time-wasting porn. Women devote 2-4 hours a week to these fantasies. The male artwork on the cover depict men who hardly ever exist (the top 1% of male physical appearance). Regular old pornography that men watch is something that men watch for what……5-8 minutes, have an orgasm, and click off of). They know its a fantasy, and that they are not going to get that kind of girl in all likelihood, but moreover they dont become EMOTIONALLY involved in the porn. Women begin to buy into the romance novel mentality, and every nice average guy they meet will never be satisfactory to the dream-men she has read about in those novels, which are characters of imagination, not real human beings.

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  162. ASF,

    Your argument, carried to its logical conclusion, is for an anarchocapitalist society (which in my view could be feasible given sufficient technological progress.) There’s likely little substantive difference between a VA and higher pay for the military driven by market forces as far as the taxpayer is concerned — especially since the size and scope of the military is NOT a free market (but a politically-driven) parameter.

    As a practical matter, though, any steps in that direction would have to account for prisoners of the “social contract.”

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  163. I doubt Roissy or anyone would say that Romance Novels were worse than guy porn. It is just that they are no better or even more complex.
    There’s the rub. Think what should be happening is being uninterested in arguing gender superiority and nitpick points about which is better in terms of the context of sexuality. Sexuality’s catered to on multilayered levels above porn and romance novels. The nature of the different presentations is that it would be logical for the average female to say ‘no, it’s not porn.’ because she’s thinking about pure sexual content and badly scripted, visual ‘degrading’ production. Modernly, often is door open sex scenes (as opposed to implied door closed) and heat levels ratched up, those’re probably close to porn in the more mainstream sense it’s used. As opposed to the definition created recently in the roissysphere, which is ‘any bad literature/media that caters to female sexuality, which we know thanks to Game doesn’t need actual sex happening, even if technically G-rated.’

    Anyway, just to point out am addressing The Stereotype for both porn and romance novels. Women seem to prefer writing most of the stories within them in a romance context (for reasons that should be obvious after reading this blog for a bit), resulting in a great range of romance novels from horrible to not. The commonality is aiming for ‘tingles’ but other elements are added. You can argue the same thing for porn, it’s just that it seems to stop being called porn after becoming something more complex. So perhaps the worst of romance novels = worst of porn. And so on.

    But the romance genre is not about catering to males, it is about catering to what appeals to women. Nor should anyone encourage that to happen at all.

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  164. I agree that this is a sort of desecration of Amish culture, but I disagree that the Amish are going to save America. Their SCA/renfaire limitations on technologies they allow themselves means they’ll always be slaves to the Mormons. Mormons, on the other hand, are soon going to be one of the only parts of America that works. I’ve often said they’re America’s holy warriors. They really are: they look at America like Jews look at Israel.

    http://lupoleboucher.livejournal.com/74378.html

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  165. According to my April 2009 issue of Romantic Times Book Reviews (save the laughter-I buy Bookmarks mag too, usually in the same purchase) mining (coal/gold) is another subset of historical romance. From pg. 29, “There’s a mini-theme, a motherlode if you will, we’ve been seeing in a few historical romances and historical fiction books lately: Mining, mines, and the people who work in or near them.” Growing up in a mining town, I really hated the feminist-inspired crap I had to listen to equating working miners with rapists, blaming them for the typical large family size. If my husband had to walk several miles to work, stay underground for 12-14 hours in small spaces with no sunlight, walk home, and still had enough energy to get laid, I think I’d be pretty happy.

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  166. The Mormons have vulnerabilities. Starting with the “problems” in the documented history of their early days.

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  167. Dude, Zunder, I think New Zealand is shit eating backwater for not providing each sheep with a free haircut. Don’t they have a right to be cool?

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  168. And New Zealand should totally have universal free gas.

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  169. And really, what’s up with your country and fishing. I think fishing is immoral and you should stop.

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  170. Some guy, I think it was Zunder, said:

    “Is health not your birthright?”

    Well, no, it isn’t, actually. What if you’re born with some congenital disease that doesn’t kill you right away so you have to live with it, basically being unhealthy for the rest of your life? What are you going to do then, sue God because your “right to health” has been violated?

    The reason health care isn’t a “right” is because it’s dependent upon the work of other people — their labor, brains, and time. Of course, doctors and medical researchers and whatnot do what they do usually because they are dedicated to their professions, but they aren’t going to do it for free; they have to eat and pay rent the same as everyone else. Demanding that your health care is a “right” is like saying you should be assigned your own personal doctor, who is obligated to take care of you no matter his own life and condition.

    Rights are things which already belong to individuals. For example: life — once alive, you have the right to continue to remain so; liberty — you have the right to be free to move about unconfined and unbound; the pursuit of happiness — you have the right to seek what makes you happy. You can, of course, lose these rights, if you commit serious enough crimes. But you already have them; health, on the other hand, isn’t a right. In fact, up to now for most of humanity it was a privilege granted to only a few lucky souls.

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  171. lurker

    If an interest in social justice makes me “beta”, then I am. The terms “alpha” and “beta” mean so many different things depending on the person using them; I don’t know what I am, and don’t much care.

    It sucks that women in the US are badly behaved, and that many men are finding it very hard to find a decent wife. A lot of these problems are a result of a radical offshoot of “feminism” that has injected severe injustice into the family court system and bred a generation of badly-behaved women. Still, I don’t think this is nearly as horrible as what happens in, say, parts of India where a woman can be tortured and killed because her family didn’t provide a large enough dowry. With these disgusting injustices still going on all over the world, I’m not comfortable with the blanket disparagement of “feminism”. Women in much of the world would be thrilled if the injustices and problems they face were replaced by the much milder ones that American men face.

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  172. feministx.blogspot.com

    “On a side note, I find it interesting that “feministx” thinks that it’s okay for Muslim women to live under a military dictatorship. And this, ladies and gents, is why you don’t hear a whole lot from feminists these days about the way women in Muslim countries are treated. Modern feminists agree with Muslim men that women are less than human.”

    Are people rightly interpreting my statement?

    It’s better for muslim women to live under military dictatorships because militaries (as opposed to tribes or warlords) are based on a form of meritocratic secular order. The military seeks somewhat to equalize people and doesn’t chiefly see them as individuals or members or a race, gender or any other social category. They are just soldiers, promoted based on competence.

    A muslim society run by the military benefits from the social egalitarianism inherant in modern military structures. The totalitarianism of a military dictatorship protects women from the cultural incursions into their liberties that inevitably arise in Muslim societies.

    Sorry, but now you are projecting Western European and North American ideals and standards onto Middle Eastern militaries, where these ideals and standards have no application. Middle Eastern militaries do not regard people merely as soldiers, based on competence, and they base promotion not on competence but on loyalty to the state and to particular tribes or subgroupings.

    There is no evidence whatsoever that any Middle Eastern military does not chiefly regard women as members of the female gender. That is a western Leftist / feminist fantasy, but it’s simply not true. Middle Eastern militaries are not designed to promote social egalitarianism, either.

    Yup, what a fine job those secular military dictatorships did of protecting women from cultural incursions on their liberties

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  173. right, rights are free. A right to a service implies someone else’s servitude.

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  174. I forgot — getting back to the subject (sort of…) the writing in most romance novels is either insipid and boring or painfully overwrought. Think of a woman weeping and wailing in your ear for hours and hours. On the other hand Barbara Cartland, one of the original cheesy greats in romance novel circles, has a great saying that goes something like: in men’s fantasies women are naked, but in women’s fantasies the man is wearing a uniform. Translation: women love high status men. Romance novels are basically conservative in that they recognize this about women (and also recognize that a high status rogue will roger all the beautiful women in the world but when he marries he looks for the girl most likely to bear him his own children and be loyal and cook; looks are secondary).

    Though once I picked up what’s supposedly the über-novel that started the big romance craze of the past forty years: it’s called Sweet Savage Love by Rosemary Rogers. I was surprised to find that this “bodice ripper” really did have ripped bodices — ripped by the brutal thug hero-rapists. And the rape scenes were not what I’d call romantic — there was basically some brute guys fucking some virgins who were screaming in pain. And then the girls later fell in love with the brutal thugs. (The plot was something to do with pirates and the Spanish settlement of California, and I forget the rest — I was too amazed at all the rape that was real rape not pretend coy “ooh, you forceful man” rape that became one of the romance novel clichés. Creepy.)

    I’ve never read the Flowers in the Attic crap. You gotta draw the line somewhere… but it sounds to me like a precursor to internet “hurt/comfort” fanfiction, which usually feature some male hero of a tv show or movie or whatever the suethor is into getting hurt in some grotesque fashion (usually raped, by, say, a horde of Klingons or something) and then getting “comforted” by some other guy — usually ending in sex. Cracked.com has an article on fan fiction that says it best: “A long time ago a woman sat down at her desk and thought ‘How can I best combine my maternal and nurturing instincts with my massive personality disorder?'” On a side note, I wonder if the new genre of “Amish romance” is just a sort of fanfiction? A lot of people seem to be really fannish about the Amish. The reality is that people who live without electricity and work on farms don’t really smell good; there’s not a lot that’s “romantic” about the Amish lifestyle. Then again, female-written gayboy porn always manages to write anal sex scenes that don’t involve any shit. It’s a girl thang.

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  175. Andrea Harris

    It sounds like you’re not out of your Ayn Rand phase yet. It usually ends around age 20.

    “Absolute” rights don’t exist. The right to life? We’ll all be denied it– by God or by flawed natural design, depending on your beliefs– some day. Rights are always relative to the resources available to uphold them and the natural constraints on their enforcement.

    For example, not only do I not have an absolute right to life, but I don’t even the absolute right not to be murdered. No government could possibly guarantee such a thing. I do have a right, however, to the protection offered by a legal system that makes murder extremely rare, by punishing the crime severely. I have the right to a legal system that punishes murder equally severely regardless of the wealth, social status, and connections of the criminal and the victim.

    Health care is a fundamental human right, conditional upon the resources being available and effective at solving the problem. I don’t have the right to live to 150 because, right now, that’s not even feasible. Nor do I have a right to a medical procedure that would cost $2 billion, as my having it would deny care and life to other people. However, living in a rich country and being a productive member of its society, I have the right not to face bankruptcy if I should develop cancer and require a couple million dollars in treatment. The resources are available and, if I get cancer, I should have access to them.

    Also, a universal healthcare plan is not charity. You pay for it in taxes. However, I’d prefer to pay into an efficient and well-run government system (and despite the Reaganoids’ reflexive assertions that government “can’t do anything right”, Medicare has the least overhead and highest consumer satisfaction of all US health plans) that will benefit society as a whole over the current scenario, in which we line the pockets of scumbag insurance executives who, born in a different time and place, would be tower guards in concentration camps.

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  176. For example, not only do I not have an absolute right to life, but I don’t even the absolute right not to be murdered. No government could possibly guarantee such a thing. I do have a right, however, to the protection offered by a legal system that makes murder extremely rare, by punishing the crime severely. I have the right to a legal system that punishes murder equally severely regardless of the wealth, social status, and connections of the criminal and the victim.

    This shows a profound misunderstanding of just what a “RIGHT” is, as pertains to the Bill of Rights that was included in the Constitution before the 13 colonies agreed to get on board with ratification.

    The fundamental idea behind the “Bill of Rights” was that Rights are NOT GRANTED OR BESTOWED upon the people by the Government.

    The “RIGHTS” in the bill of rights were limitations on the GOVERNMENT from infringing on the rights of the citizenry.

    The Founding Father’s referred to those Rights as Inalienable, and endowed by the creator.

    Take whatever interpretation you want, it is quite clear that what the authors of the Constitution meant here was that the Rights came from a higher authority than the Government.

    In terms of “healthcare” to call it a ‘right’ is just another way for big government communitarian idealogues to dishonestly sell their agenda.

    It is an emotional appeal all too fitting for our dumbed-down, feminized political culture. The average, non-logic employing person will just ‘feel’ that is right to say that every person should have health care! Afterall, what mean, evil person doesn’t think every person deserves health care!

    The reality is that health CARE is a SERVICE provided from another human being…one who has their OWN rights to their skills and services they can decide to provide or not.

    Saying one person (patient) has a RIGHT to healthcare is essentially saying that person has the RIGHT to another person’s skills, experience and labor.

    That is the very antithesis to the reasoning behind the rationale for instituting a Bill of Rights in the US Constitution.

    Anyone that argues that Healthcare should be a “RIGHT” is basically serving as a useful idiot for the socialist agenda.

    Don’t be a useful idiot.

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  177. on September 11, 2009 at 11:07 pm The Transcendentalist

    Proze,

    So you are a White Nationalist? Go fuck yourself. Go suck Friedrich Braun’s balls and get fisted by Fred Scrooby while an HIV-infected nigger assfucks his pussy, cowardly, bitchy ass.

    Your blog attracts nothing but a group of mentally unbalanced Nordicist misfit-misfucks, pissed off that their women are fucking buck-nogs in droves.

    So go fuck yourself.

    Like


  178. I’d prefer if Roissy would come out and bluntly state he is or is not a White Nationalist, as well. [Even if by revealing so, it’d throw certain questions into light about his friendship with VK and admitted history of dating black women.]

    It’d settle a lot of the personal and conceptual battles sprawling across these comment’s threads, instantly.

    Also:

    Strange question.

    A friend of mine is going to China for an internship program.

    He has a paranoid fear of his condoms being ‘compromised’ by Chinese gold-diggers while he’s playing their version of “Date-&-Mate”.

    Ironically, he does not trust Chinese condoms and is afraid that if he stores them in a physically secured area, the heat or humidity will weaken the latex.

    Does ANYONE have any suggestions as to how he can protect his condoms from mischievous Chinese girls?

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  179. ruby

    what would roissy’s statement either way “settle” exactly?

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  180. He has a paranoid fear of his condoms being ‘compromised’ by Chinese gold-diggers while he’s playing their version of “Date-&-Mate”.

    There are enough white guys visiting/studying/interning/working in China that are fucking the Chinese girls over there on a regular basis that even if he impregnates one of them he can reasonably dodge and say that it was another white dude.

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  181. Ruby

    I think your friend should get a vasectomy. That way, there is no danger of him ever reproducing.

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  182. ruby

    what would roissy’s statement either way “settle” exactly?

    ruby, please don’t answer this ridiculous argument-bait question.

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  183. Cless

    Short answer: Feminism had nothing to do with it. Technology has made it possible for women to live comfortably as single moms and so lots of them chose that option when it became available. Before it was an option, women insisted on stricter gender roles so they could be safe in the parlour and/or kitchen.
    Poor guys in shit-poor countries get treated pretty badly too. Just saying, “Here I am as a man, give me my priviledges” has never meant anything outside of the imagination of addled feminists..

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  184. Dave from Hawaii – well said!

    I would like to take it a step further and point out the following: the entire Constitution is a document of specific, limited, enumerated powers which are conditionally granted from the people to their government.

    One of the original arguments against the Bill of Rights was that over time it would cause people to view the Constitution in a manner opposite of what was intended. The Bill of Rights does not carve a subset of power for the people from the otherwise absolute power of the state. Rather the Constitution carves a subset of power for the government from the absolute power of the people. A people who can alter or take back the powers granted at any time.

    The Bill of Rights didn’t make sense to some of the founders. Why would you need an amendment guaranteeing free speech if no power to regulate speech was granted to the government by the Constitution in the first place?

    True to the prediction, we have come to view the Constitution in an inverted manner. We see the government as able to do anything it wishes outside of the Bill of Rights. Instead we should see the people as able to do anything, and responsible for everything, outside those few powers granted to the government. (Though in all fairness the power hungry who dive into politics would have twisted our Constitution any way. The Bill of Rights has served to slow and hinder their lust for power.)

    There is no “right to health care” as liberals define it. There is a clear “freedom of health care” given the fact that the Constitution does not in any way authorize the Federal government to regulate this aspect of your life. Medicare is already unconstitutional. And ObamaCare just takes the violation of the rights, freedoms, and power of the people one step further.

    I’m often very depressed because I have come to realize that America is not anything like the nation it was intended to be. We are not under the rule of law or under the Constitution, contrary to the platitudes spoken in schools and in political speeches. Our leaders take an oath to defend the Constitution, then proceed to rape and violate it day after day.

    But the way things are is not the way things should be. A proper, legal, Constitutional view of health care in America is this: the Federal government has been granted no power to regulate, control, levy taxes for, or pay for this aspect of our lives. Short of a Constitutional amendment, health care is the freedom and responsibility of the people, and the power to regulate it is reserved to the States (10th Amendment).

    Anything else is simply illegal if we are indeed a nation under the rule of law.

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  185. Cless:

    how do you discern between “rights” and “absolute rights”? Isn’t a “right” absolute by nature? I mean, there’s no way to *guarantee* any of them, but they can’t be taken away without some sort of punishment of the right-taker.

    So we have a right to life, but we don’t have a right to health care.

    You say that someone has the right not to face bankruptcy if they develop cancer. But what if this person spends all of their disposable income on cars, phones, clothes, etc instead of their insurance? Is the government supposed to guarantee that right to them even though our right to private property (our money) is infringed upon by government coercion?

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  186. Dave from Hawaii — I posted this in one of the other threads, but I guess you didn’t see it there —

    I’ve read your posts on how you relate to your wife when she is giving shit tests. How do you two resolve disagreements? (For example, about how much money to spend, what to buy, etc.)

    Also: does she work?

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  187. first time i ever saw titties on film was Witness. There’s some scene where Amish lady is topless in the barn.

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  188. As far as I can tell, Roissy is a French Canadian.

    Which probably makes him Catholic.

    Which would probably exclude him from White Nationalist organizations.

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  189. @el chief- yep, kelly mcgillis. she lived here in DC with her lawyer husband for a number of years, and then just a few months ago, in her 50s or whatever, came out as a lesbian. maybe some of that tom cruise mojo rubbed off on her during “top gun” and turned her queer. talk about a non-Amish ending…

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  190. @maurice. nice work.

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  191. DT you need a blog. I enjoy reading you here.

    This of course is the problem with positive “rights” as opposed to negative ones. If someone has a right to healthcare, then it follows, that someone else has a duty to provide it. Sounds like de facto slavery to me.

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  192. A confirmed sighting of flashing Amish tits! I cannot claim to have encountered that special joy.
    When I was in Alaska, my friend and I spent a lot of time amongst the local Mormons. We were technically homeless, just living in an abandoned building. For a variety of reasons they took us to opportunities to eat for free while attempting to mormonize us and as side effect we got to meet their daughters. These women were HOT and looking for genetic diversity (like us- good colleges, from far away) but first we had to take the Mormon leap in order to have a chance at the prize.
    It was all bullshit of course. We were 2 guys who like eating free food and breathing the same air as smoking hot innocent seeming babes. Getting deeply mormonized was not on the plan.
    I can tell you from experience that single Mormons fuck a lot. I do not know the exact rationalizations they deploy on themselves..

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  193. “But Amish girls are similar to E. European ones, in that their young women have that girlish willowness that you rarely see in American girls.”

    What is “willlowness”? I happen to have a *crush* on an E. European woman and I wonder if it is “willowness” that plays a part.

    I’d submit how I”m trying to game her in a monday game day submission but I need to break my crush first because otherwise I go all pussy on her.

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  194. Roissy, there you go making me laugh and spit my drink all over my keyboard–again.

    I lived in an Amish community during grad school, got to know a couple of local Amish families. One can poke a little fun all one wants, but I’ve not ever found another group of people that radiates so much… I don’t know what to call it… I suppose “peace” or “contentment” would be the most accurate words.

    As Woodsmall found when interviewing them, there are simply some social issues for which they don’t have a context. Feminism? Ha! I suspect it’s not so much that they’re actively opposed to the concept; rather there’s simply no frame or need to even consider it helpful. They really are on their own, separate track. These things, and others, were really hard to have a discourse about. It all makes one reflect just a bit.

    Outside of the Amish, I next rank the Mormons in that peace and contentment category–but without as much social isolation. Someone above said that IF a man marries, he’ll find the best luck from Eastern Europe, Latin America, or Asia. To that, I’d add “Mormon”–or possibly another fundamental religion, anything that instills both a firm moral background AND a strong social pressure.

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  195. “As far as I can tell, Roissy is a French Canadian.

    Which probably makes him Catholic.

    Which would probably exclude him from White Nationalist organizations.”

    Roissy has talked about his German relatives before. I don’t believe he’s ever mentioned French Canadian heritage before.

    Also, White Nationalists don’t exclude Catholics. They don’t really care about Christianity, or what sect of Christianity you follow.

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  196. You can be French-Canadian and be white nationalist. Of German origin. Catholic. Even Jewish. I’ve been on White Nationalist websites and seen members of all those persuasions. Sure a lot of infighting happens as a result but they exist.

    For example here’s Michael Hart, Jewish white nationalist:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_H._Hart

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  197. Chuck

    “how do you discern between ‘rights’ and ‘absolute rights’? Isn’t a ‘right’ absolute by nature? I mean, there’s no way to *guarantee* any of them, but they can’t be taken away without some sort of punishment of the right-taker.

    So we have a right to life, but we don’t have a right to health care.”

    We already have the precedent for a “right to health care”. An ER is legally forbidden from turning away a patient. By duty-to-rescue laws, a person who refuses to save another’s life can be charged with a crime. We aren’t throwing insurance executives in prison over rescissions and pre-existing condition policies, but we should be doing so.

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  198. “We aren’t throwing insurance executives in prison over rescissions and pre-existing condition policies, but we should be doing so.”

    A truly excellent way to ensure higher premiums for everyone.

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  199. The Transcedentalist:

    Your blog attracts nothing but a group of mentally unbalanced Nordicist misfit-misfucks, pissed off that their women are fucking buck-nogs in droves.

    PA wept.

    Joe:

    ruby, please don’t answer this ridiculous argument-bait question.

    Niggerlover.

    oops, I meant NAGGERlover

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  200. “You can be French-Canadian and be white nationalist. Of German origin. Catholic. Even Jewish. I’ve been on White Nationalist websites and seen members of all those persuasions. Sure a lot of infighting happens as a result but they exist.”

    Michael Hart, and no doubt some other Jews out there, consider themselves white nationalists.

    But White Nationalists for the most part don’t accept Jews and don’t really consider them “white” or of the same ilk as themselves.

    Some White Nationalists are willing to tolerate their presence, largely out of current political considerations, but this is with the knowledge and intention that they would be such a minority and out of the mainstream and away from the levers of power (unlike now) as to be virtually nonexistent in any kind of future white ethno-state.

    Most White Nationalists (including those willing to tolerate Jews for political expediency) view Jews as nefarious, dangerous, and harmful to White interests and Civilization.

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  201. on September 12, 2009 at 3:08 am The Transcendentalist

    “But White Nationalists for the most part don’t accept Jews and don’t really consider them ‘white’ or of the same ilk as themselves.”

    Since when do White Nationalists define whiteness? It should be seen as a badge of honor to be excluded by them, as the vast majority of mainstream society finds them detestable.

    If White Nationalists are going to trash white people (see VNNForum threads), they can go fuck themselves and catch HIV in prison after getting fucked by low-IQ Coca-Cola bottle nigger dick. Whining bitches.

    And they can join forces with Scrooby, Braun, Linder, and all of the rest of the maggot rejects of society in some pseudo-intellectual blogospheric circle-jerk orgy.

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  202. “Since when do White Nationalists define whiteness? It should be seen as a badge of honor to be excluded by them, as the vast majority of mainstream society finds them detestable.”

    They can define it however they want to. And they can call it by some other name like Aryan, Nordic, etc., if they want to.

    Like


  203. Roissy downplays SES as a factor in pickup.

    Or relationships for that matter.

    Like


  204. on September 12, 2009 at 3:23 am The Transcendentalist

    “They can define it however they want to. And they can call it by some other name like Aryan, Nordic, etc., if they want to.”

    Who the fuck uses those terms except anthropology professors and geeks who spend more time theorizing online than interacting with others in real life?

    Seriously, I have met fuckloads of people and the only time I hear people use the word “Aryan” is online — just as often from angry Persians and south Asians who feel the term has been wrongly co-opted.

    Likewise with “Nordic.” Besides anthropologists, this is not a term normal people typically throw around (with the exception of maybe Scandinavians — though they use it in a different context).

    As soon as these terms are thrown around by ideologues, “betas” “losers” “geeks” “dweebs” “nerds” instantly come to mind.

    Oh yes, a master race.

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  205. The point isn’t that those terms are perfect, or anthropologically and scientifically valid.

    The point is that White Nationalists can define themselves however they want, and call themselves whatever they want.

    They don’t have to listen to some fucking Jew tell them what is or isn’t valid.

    It’s not just a bunch of beta losers. Roissy is a White Nationalist or at least sympathizes with the cause so if you don’t like it fuck off.

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  206. Universal healthcare: it can go horribly, horribly wrong. You don’t want heavy taxes, you want choice over what happens to them. People may be denied Too Expensive cancer therapies (‘scarce resources’) because whoever is currently in power and in charge of budgets wants to cut a corner somewhere. So what ends up happening is that those who can afford it on top of their heavy taxes (because those with higher incomes have a higher percentage of their income taken here at least) invariably get private healthcare, paying for someone else to use and abuse the national healthcare system in the way they see fit (e.g. paying obese people to eat.). It certainly doesn’t make society more productive.

    Think about the nature of the US government, US efficiency, US politics and US laws. Can you really see a universal healthcare system that isn’t filled with insane amounts of bureaucracy (the people of the US love to litigate, love to use democracy to increase governmental interference in everything), targets that have nothing to do with patient care and everything to do with public relations, misunderstandings of what constitutes health by those who have influence over the policy that determines it, healthcare that treats everyone but at the gross compromise of quality, misunderstandings by those trying to implement it of the financial model needed accruing more debt and being unable to achieve their healthcare ideals?

    A country in economical trouble is not in a position to implement universal healthcare AT ALL.

    Yes, universal healthcare may work in some places (asides from possible predicted collapses thanks to baby boomers and economic instability). But looking at the nature of your country and its people, not yours. What should be targeted is policing insurance companies. That’s relatively simple compared to the universal healthcare can of worms.

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  207. Bwahahahaa! Cless Alvein gets it right! There’s no absolute ‘right’ to anything at all at any time. You merely have the ability to get what you can out of life as best you can. For certain token Libertarians here who say “you have the right to do whatever whatever you want . . .” sounds good until they throw in the party-pooper caveat “. . . as long as you don’t harm others” are placing duties upon others. Actually no you don’t have the right to walk down the street and expect others not to mug because you’re impinging on their freedom to act. You have a right to defend yourself against a mugger but if you win the fight or not is based upon your abilities. After all, if someone “doesn’t have a right to universal healthcare” then why should others think they have a right “universal police services”. Screw you! If you get robbed that’s your own problem – get a gun, hunt down the robbers and shoot them dead – but your own expense and on your own spare time, stop trying to foist your costs on to the rest of society.

    Then again Americans can have Universal Health Care if they want to – just vote it in. If it conflicts with the U.S. Constitution then get an Amendment passed. Hell, the 18th Amendment got in, passing a Universal Health Care Amendment should be easier! American Libertarians don’t like it? Well they should blame the Founding Fathers for allow the Constitution to have an amendment process. Or, they should just use the guns & ammo they been stockpiling for years now and shoot all the Liberals and Lefties dead (which should be easy since Liberals and Lefties don’t have guns).

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  208. Bhetti

    There are countries that have implemented universal healthcare. On average, they recieve treatment of a higher quality and live longer.

    “You don’t want heavy taxes, you want choice over what happens to them.”

    Universal healthcare would increase your taxes, but you wouldn’t be paying health premiums. If you’ve never worked for yourself and had to buy insurance on the individual market, you probably have no idea how much private health insurance costs. COBRA, the program that allows laid-off people to continue their employer-provided insurance, has a reputation for being unaffordably expensive. Actually, that cost is almost the same as the cost to the employer (there is a 102% limit). So your hideously high COBRA premiums (often ~$500/month per person covered) are what your employer has been paying all along.

    Many firms are shelling out as much as $10k/year per employee on private insurance. (If you want insurance of comparable quality on the individual market, you’ll pay a lot more. You’re fucked if you have a pre-existing condition.) This isn’t a “tax”, but it is a huge drain on peoples’ paychecks, and if it disappeared, companies would be able to pay higher salaries. So it has the same effect as a tax. You just don’t see it because the deductions never appear on your paycheck.

    “People may be denied Too Expensive cancer therapies (’scarce resources’) because whoever is currently in power and in charge of budgets wants to cut a corner somewhere.”

    This is very rare. Stephen Hawking, for example, is alive and as well as he possibly could be, given his condition. He has stated that he’s received excellent health care under NHS.

    Also, private health insurance Eichmanns executives make decisions like that every day. The “death panels” already exist. Between rescissions and lifetime caps, they drop their most expensive claims on the public (individual debt, government, or hospitals) already. This is why those companies are so profitable; when they are needed, they find reasons not to pay.

    “Can you really see a universal healthcare system that isn’t filled with insane amounts of bureaucracy […]”

    Yes. Medicare has the lowest bureaucratic overhead and the highest satisfaction of all US medical plans. This is why insurance executives shit their pants over the public option. They know they can’t compete.

    “What should be targeted is policing insurance companies. That’s relatively simple compared to the universal healthcare can of worms.”

    Regulation is NOT “simple”. Consider Wall Street. Often, if a prohibition is made on a certain trade, a derivative will be created to allow people to make that trade synthetically. Insurance companies, unless very, very tightly regulated, will become excellent at exploiting loopholes and gaps in the regulatory framework. Fixing the current healthcare system requires SO much regulation that we’re better off scrapping it entirely and going fully universal. It’s an old, clunky, dying machine. Why duct tape it together when we can replace it?

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  209. “Can you really see a…healthcare system that isn’t filled with insane amounts of bureaucracy?”

    This is how I would describe the current situation.

    I would much rather see the US government, which we citizens have some small measure of control over and who is supposed to have the best interests of the greater population in mind, handling the insurance system.

    As opposed to large corporations, which have no interest in the health or longevity of the population since their entire function is simply to make a profit, which means cutting corners and denying care under any circumstances they possibly can.

    Sure, this is a sensitive topic for me – my dad had a near-fatal brain bleed and severe brain damage, and despite his quite good health and disability insurance (which they refused to pay out even though he is permanently disabled – apparently a brain aneurysm is a pre-existing condition!) we had a hell of a time getting him adequate care even paying out of pocket. If anything like this happens to you and you lie in a 2nd-rate nursing home at 46 years old, unable to move and being abused by the workers – you’ll soon come around to thinking our current system is pretty crappy.

    I’m not too cheery about the Obama administration’s current plan but at least it is a change. We really do need a change.

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  210. The WN thing gets thrown out a lot, but it’s an interent invention more than something that exists in real-life. In reality, every white person is a white nationalist by default. WN, of course, is another way of saying “normal person.”

    No white people I know run around with WN organization membershit cards. But every white person I know prefers to work with, date, marry, live around, other white people. This applies to conservatives, rednecks, as well as Obama-genuflecting SWPL twinks.

    They just don’t necessarily state this preference in words. The subject just doesn’t come up.

    Even on the internet — how many commentes here, even rabid lefties, spend a lot of time reading and commenting on non-white blogs? White nationalist = normal person.

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  211. ethnocentricism is considered perfectly natural in every other human grouping on earth EXCEPT white people, in which case it is always pathologized with some leftist shame word like white “nationalism” or “racism”.

    also, because of hitler, nationalism is ONLY a bad word when it applies to whites. the black majority in SA wanting to rule whats laughably considered “their own country” by people who have zero knowledge of how the bantu speaking people got to SA is laudable and a glorious struggle. boers who built the country wanting to retain control of it? evil racism and “white nationalism”. israelis wanting israel to be a jewish country for jews? bad–arab countries expelling their jewish populations and clamoring for a judenrein palestinian only nation of their own? a beautiful and glorious struggle. see ONLY white people cant feel that way

    also, “nationalism” implies early 20th century style statism–almost NOONE who posts here is a statist of any stripe least of all roissy from what anyone can tell

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  212. Racer X said:

    “You attributed two quotes to me that came from Lurker. I never said women have “fucked up fantasies”, although I think they often do, nor did I say anything about homo porn and how that might appeal to women, although I know it does to many.

    And I find women’s fucked up fantasies a huge turn on. One girl I used to fuck would enjoy role playing an incest fantasy with me, pretending I was her brother. Totally fucked up but it totally turned her on too. There is nothing like tapping into that dark side of female sexuality. A girl with fucked up fantasies will go places with you sexually that some other girls may not…

    And I find it interesting how the incest part of Flowers in the Attic is being described here in terms not too strong, such as “racy” . Yup, the girls enjoy reading that forbidden stuff: brother/sister sex, etc. I bet a lot of that goes on in real life but no one talks about it.”

    My apologizes. Didn’t realize the first one was lurker too.

    I describe it as ‘racy’ because there is suggestion of sexual/romantic feelings, and a short scene with nudity, but absolutely no detail.

    I dunno, is incest really that big a pervy deal to most people? I can’t imagine having sexual feelings for a close relative, but the idea that other people do has never been something that tingled my gina or particularly disgusted me.

    But like I said, there was such limited availability of any sexual material when I was a kid (and I am 24, it’s even truer for older people) that anything sexy at all had an appeal… I really don’t think the incest angle of Flowers is very important. I used to read and get off to my grandma’s romance novels when I was little. I remember clearly how poorly written they were, and the type of relationship and sex described weren’t to my liking, but it was still masturbatory material. A guy can still get turned on by and get off to porn that ultimately he thinks is pretty bad or even gross.. same for plenty of women.

    Now that there are many more options, young girls aren’t reading Flowers in the Attic.

    z said:

    “Regular old pornography that men watch is something that men watch for what……5-8 minutes, have an orgasm, and click off of). They know its a fantasy, and that they are not going to get that kind of girl in all likelihood, but moreover they dont become EMOTIONALLY involved in the porn.”

    I’m glad you have a grasp on reality, but sad fact is, many guys don’t.

    I see and hear about the influence of porn in the internet generation all the time. The majority of their sexual experiences from the age of 10 to whenever they start getting real girls involve commercial porn. They come to expect a hot girl with super-firm big breasts, no body hair and practically non-existent labia, who wants them to come on their face every time, always wants to fuck, and performs like a porn actress.

    There are more men out there who are less-extreme versions of DA than you would think..

    I absolutely agree, though, that the ideals of manliness, romance, etc that women are getting – more from movies, tv, and ads than books since most young girls I know have never read a romance novel – are extremely damaging as well.

    But there is lots of emotional investment, on both sides, fucking everyone up.

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  213. Dana, in the grand scheme of things, we’re still living in the fallout of the French Revolution. Its major eruptions over the past century:

    1933-1945: National Socialism
    1917-1989: Bolshevism
    1950- ? : Population Replacement

    Hence the “double standard” in ethnocentrism you describe. We’re living in an era of global-scale, slow-motion, de-Kulakization of whites from the planet.

    You can talk about Boers and Bantus till you’re blue in the face, and you’ll win every argument with a Leftist, but that’s about as useful as a Ukrainian peasant debating property rights with the Cheka.

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  214. when you say “de kulakization” do you mean the destruction of the self sufficient “middle class” that gets in the way of the state/aristocracy with its old fashioned interest in private property and silly morality?

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  215. In Response to PA:

    I generally agree with you, but I’d personally amend that statement to read as something like:

    ‘Every person desires a geopolitical, economic and socio-cultural locus in which they can freely act and be in leisure with those who they find affinity with.’

    Really, yes, EVERY PERSON is a Nationalist in some regard — Preferring those who they find common merit, goals, ideas and aesthetics with.

    Those who have a true understanding of society and human nature will find no fault or offense to this.

    What I suspect many people are truly weary of — and what causes most conflict between groups throughout human history — is supremacism.

    Where Nationalism is maintaining a solid locus of power, perception and products with a group you find affinity with, Supremacism is the forceful and coercive expansion of such a group out of the belief that they are the only ones who’s wants and needs are relevant.

    Let me clarify: I am NOT speaking of White Supremacism [in exclusion]. I am speaking of ALL Supremacism — Feminist, Black, Muslim, Sino, Liberal, Latino, etc.

    I, as a Decentralist, truly think that if the majority of “special interest groups” (used in its basest definition) spent more time creating such loci, maintaining them and expanding them with minimal interference to others, their stated goals would be fulfilled and the latest chapter of the ‘Culture Wars’ [potentially the most volatile and destructive in history] would be finished.

    System’s Theory would seem to back me up on this.

    I am not naive enough to think the vast majority of these groups WILL seek anything resembling real autarky, but if ever there was a strategy by which any group seeking to survive, and maybe even thrive, against the entropic forces plaguing our civilization — that — would be it.

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  216. Two additional points before I turn my mind back to Amish girls: 1) the United States “Cathedral” (readers of Mencius will know what this means) is the engine and the brains behind Population Replacement. 2) Population Replacement will ultimately fail, as did Bolshevism. There will be a pushback and a reversal.

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  217. aofe said:

    “I thought you were 22ish?? Do I have the wrong chick? You seem pretty knowledgeable for the time period is why I’m asking.”

    When I said ‘we’ in the 80s I meant ‘womankind’. I was born in 1985. I read Flowers in the Attic for the first time when I was about 9 (so, 1994). Yes, it made my gina tingle. No, it wasn’t the first time I read something that did, and the taboo aspect of incest wasn’t what did it. I read everything with sex in it that I could get my hands on.

    I’ve had many discussions over the years with women of all ages who also read it growing up.

    And again to the guys who didn’t read it, it was usually available in your middle-school library.

    roissy said:
    “the real reason women have what looks to men like fucked up fantasies is because… women’s fantasies are fucked up!”

    I’m going to have to agree with this (it’s equally true for men from our point of view).. even though I am as vanilla as they come. My turn ons: having someone hot think I’m sexy, and having sex in any way that isn’t painful. My fantasies involve me and someone hot doing stuff to each other. Totally can’t relate to kinky stuff, and any suggestion of being overpowered makes me panicky to think of.

    But plenty of women I’ve talked to about sex have what I consider pretty crazy/scary fetishes, fantasies and preferences, a lot of it very much about a man dominating them..

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  218. pa thats funny, i was just forcing 100 moldbug links on my dad and came across a bunch of your excellent comments

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  219. Until “health care” is defined it is meaningless to argue about whether we have a right to it.
    Really defining it is vastly more difficult than most people realize.

    New therapies are constantly coming along whose usefullness might takes years to discover.

    People in the US have highly diverse notions about appropriate end-of-life care and the moral status of the pre-born.

    Keeping overall costs down in the face of widespread shortages of Docs and nurses and an aging, fattening population will result in immediate, harsh rationing of services. If my logic has a flaw, please point it out.

    Government programs like Medicare that appear to be popular are massively subsidized by every other part of the system. They have low overhead because they never do anything but automatically approve care. But why shouldn’t they if they don’t have to really pay the full costs of providing care?

    If Medicare/Medicaid had to pay their own way without huge subsidies from the private sector they would be constantly limited services. Endless lawsuits and review panels and review-appeals panels. Overhead would skyrocket.

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  220. dana,

    Like I wrote above:

    “But White Nationalists for the most part don’t accept Jews and don’t really consider them “white” or of the same ilk as themselves.

    Some White Nationalists are willing to tolerate their presence, largely out of current political considerations, but this is with the knowledge and intention that they would be such a minority and out of the mainstream and away from the levers of power (unlike now) as to be virtually nonexistent in any kind of future white ethno-state.

    Most White Nationalists (including those willing to tolerate Jews for political expediency) view Jews as nefarious, dangerous, and harmful to White interests and Civilization.”

    Jews and Israelis get away with all kinds of shit whites and even non-whites don’t get away with. So watch yourself before you engage in such blatant Jew dissimulation.

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  221. yeh clarice, that’s nice, what does it have to do with anything i typed? specifically–with quotes from what i wrote–here it is again for your convenience:

    ethnocentricism is considered perfectly natural in every other human grouping on earth EXCEPT white people, in which case it is always pathologized with some leftist shame word like white “nationalism” or “racism”.

    also, because of hitler, nationalism is ONLY a bad word when it applies to whites. the black majority in SA wanting to rule whats laughably considered “their own country” by people who have zero knowledge of how the bantu speaking people got to SA is laudable and a glorious struggle. boers who built the country wanting to retain control of it? evil racism and “white nationalism”. israelis wanting israel to be a jewish country for jews? bad–arab countries expelling their jewish populations and clamoring for a judenrein palestinian only nation of their own? a beautiful and glorious struggle. see ONLY white people cant feel that way

    also, “nationalism” implies early 20th century style statism–almost NOONE who posts here is a statist of any stripe least of all roissy from what anyone can tell

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  222. Re Mencius Moldbug, I must admit that I find him to be an entertaining and interesting read. But no doubt he plays fast and loose with the facts. And he’s too bright a guy for me to believe that he’s not fully aware of such intellectual dishonesty either. For every person out there like the blogger ‘n/a’ (see here, here, and here) who’s willing to make the effort to check the facts on Moldbug’s wild and unsubstantiated claims, there seem to be tens of fanboys enthralled by Moldbug’s writing and theorizing and willing to overlook inconvenient, pesky things like facts.

    You’d be better off reading the evolutionary psychologist Kevin MacDonald’s trilogy, two of which are available in their entirety in pdf form: “The Culture of Critique” and “Separation and Its Discontents.”

    MacDonald’s work is much more in line with the empirical bent and emphasis on evolutionary psychology that you find at Roissy’s, rather than the much less empirical, and more heavy, abstract theorizing and rationalism you find with Moldbug’s writing, which while often dazzling and entertaining is not infrequently downright misleading, not factual, and intellectually dishonest.

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  223. obsidian i’ve read kevin macdonald

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  224. It appears the link above for “The Culture of Critique” is not working.

    Just copy and paste: http://www.prometheism.net/library/CultureOfCritique.pdf

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  225. obsidian aren’t you embarrassed at your own sad little act here–you TOLD me you were going to do this you dumb fuckin schvug

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  226. Dana regurgitated, “see ONLY white people cant feel that way”

    I see you’ve never heard of Ireland or Scotland.

    Less Stormfront. More library.

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  227. ireland and scotland are embraced by the ethnonationalism-approving left because they qualify as “oppressed by imperialist england”

    do you ever know what you are talking about tree ogre?

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  228. Also, watch this video of an interview with the recently released from prison former Congressman James Traficant.

    Go to 3:58 when Traficant starts talking about his “grudges”…

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  229. leave it to you to pick white people (irish) whos “nationalist movement” is marxist/leftist lol god you really are funny

    the only reason israel was supported early on was because “zionism” was a national SOCIALIST movement–as soon as they began abandoning socialist priniciples the soviet union dropped them like a hot potato and the left turned n them like a plague

    stormfront lol
    you are the dumbest nigger ever nicole

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  230. Dana, the Irish and Scottish are but two examples of White people who are allowed to be ethno nationalist. There are others who would fit under the generic White umbrella.

    This is the problem with generic Whiteness. You’re attributing things to others that don’t apply to them. They don’t consider you one of them, and would resent your lumping them into the same category as you.

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  231. evil racism and “white nationalism”. israelis wanting israel to be a jewish country for jews?

    The odd part I’ve generally noted with Israel is that if the population group that ended up becoming Palestinian perpetual refugees didn’t leave before the war in 1947, Israel would have been stuck with an even larger number of Arabs to deal with, which makes the creation of an Jewish state even more problematic. A Jewish state with a nearly 40% population doesn’t have much in the way of survival sans massive repression, and once the Cold War ended, I’d question if foreign policy toward Israel would tolerate such massive repression.

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  232. Dana says, “you are the dumbest nigger ever nicole”

    Yeah, I’ve been told that before.

    …in high school by ugly, unintelligent girls.

    Grow up.

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  233. Ghost of Nicole: “Generic whiteness” works in ex-colonial countries like the US, Canada, Australia, etc, where it is relatively similar groups of white people assimilating into a new culture.

    White Nationalism does not work in Europe, in the sense that a Pole living in Dublin is distinct from an Irishman. However, the influx of non-whites has made Europeans of different stripes realise that they have a lot in common with each other in the grand scheme of things, and a shared interest in keeping foreigners out. If you follow the far-right scene, you see a lot of collaboration between historical enemies now as they get their priorities straight.

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  234. Cless Alvein, you tool, please find the part of the US constitution where healthcare is termed a right.

    Note my caveat above how the preamble’s “welfare” doesn’t refer to healthcare and isn’t operative anyway.

    You lose, socialist scumbag.

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  235. Paying for everyones healthcare via heavy tax burden on the productive. Seems like a good idea?

    So we all get medical procedures and drugs paid for by the Public treasury with no regard as to how well we take care of ourselves?

    Fat, lazy slobs and smokers get medial care paid for from your tax dollars? I know they pay more in “sin” taxes / but should a healthy citizen that eats right and exercises pay the same burden?

    Isn’t that like paying for everyones car insurance regardless of how they drive? I mean, fuck it. Its free right?

    No wonder it takes longer to get an MRI in Canada for a human than your pet dog. The government big enough to give you anything is big enough to take everything.

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  236. Cless Alvein would make it so anything he wants would be declared a right. In other words, he’s basically a thief who changes the law the moment you have something he wants. An autocratic despot, if you will. A king with divine rights.

    Y’know, the more you get to know them, the more you realize why left wingers love dictators.

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  237. Until “health care” is defined it is meaningless to argue about whether we have a right to it.

    There is no definition of health care for which “we have a right to health care” is true, and thus the effort to define “health care” is meaningless.

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  238. It’s amazing that we are still arguing about the benefits of the welfare state. It doesn’t work, except at destroying civilizations. American society is founded upon self-reliance…or at least self-interest and charity and responsibility.

    These proposals destroy all those foundations…for what? Something that we can already afford? Where the poor already get help?

    Next time Zunder comes on board, just tell him to stop shagging sheep.

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  239. Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of other people’s money.”

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  240. Holy Shit.

    I didn’t think a bit of banter between that fruit, “Lurker”, and myself would lead to this.

    Anyway, eat healthy, lift weights, keep fit – and you should sidestep use of the health system in whatever country you happen to live, until your too old that it doesn’t matter.

    Most doctors don’t know fuck all anyway – they are only taught “sickness” not “prevention”.

    Then again, United States, New Zealand, Australia – We are amongst the fattest, laziest, unhealthiest sonsofbitches in the world.

    Women especially.

    Walk down the street in any westernised city in these countires and observe the Newton defying “waddle” from the “whales”.

    It’s a wonder with these fat bithces that one ass cheek can defy gravity enough to raise its huge lard in time for the other gross ass cheek to allow them to procede forward, as theywobble their gross bodies down the street.

    At least the majority Amish / Mormon chicks seem to be in shape.

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  241. PA:

    Vlad, very good analysis of Amish nonviolence being an asset. Of course, your explanation applies to the quirk of our times, as a kind of camouflage, or good PR, against a potentially hostile political system. Was this “good PR” a factor behind their nonviolence in earlier times?

    I don’t know much about their earlier history, but from what I know, it’s been pretty successful on multiple occasions. Pre-20th-century America was a paradise for such groups of people who just wanted to quietly mind their own business in the middle of nowhere, but then came the era of the world wars and the New Deal, each of which brought serious challenges to their community. The military draft was the first huge threat (imagine the disruptive effects that the imposition of army service on the majority of their young men would have). The second one was the rise of the New Deal state, when the federal government started increasingly meddling into local affairs everywhere in ways that are incompatible with their way of life. Yet, with their attitude of passive resistance and humble, deferential pleading to the authorities, they somehow managed to get exempted from most of these intrusions. Of course, the danger still remains that the modern federal government might forsake this policy of benign neglect.

    As for the corrosive effects of the modern culture, I don’t think that’s a critical threat, because of their high fertility rates, which will enable the community to survive even with large attrition rates among the youth. The Orthodox Jews, for example, mostly live close to the centers of modern life and thus have very high attrition rates, but their numbers are nevertheless increasing.

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  242. clarice:

    Re Mencius Moldbug, I must admit that I find him to be an entertaining and interesting read. But no doubt he plays fast and loose with the facts.

    That’s not my impression. I am decently knowledgeable about nearly all of the historical topics he’s written about, and even if he’s occasionally mistaken about details and sometimes carries his conclusions a bit too far in the passion of the moment (but who doesn’t?), his arguments are well-grounded in facts and nearly all of his conclusions are in the right direction. Also, I’m by no means a “fanboy” who looks at his writing as a revelation — I had come to many similar conclusions even before I’d ever heard of him, though my talent and motivation for writing are nowhere near his.

    As for that “n/a” critic, he completely misses the point (plus he’s also showing an Aspergery lack of sense of humor in that third post). The cultural, ideological, and religious trends MM is discussing don’t need to be reflected at all in democratic elections and other expressions of the momentary public opinion. What matters is the ideological position and direction of the elites that ultimately shape the public opinion in the long run. (This is also the blind spot of those bloggers who dig their conclusions about social trends out of GSS and similar surveys.)

    As a relatively recent example, Reagan won Massachusetts in both 1980 and 1984. Yet, at the same time, Ted Kennedy was seeking help from his Soviet contacts to help him mount a more effective opposition to Reagan, whom he obviously considered a greater threat to America and civilization than the USSR. Which of these facts better reflects the ideology of the New England elites — the popular vote, or Kennedy’s behavior? Now just imagine what misguided conclusions a future “n/a” could derive from Reagan’s electoral success in MA.

    Like


  243. Zunder the dunder:

    “I didn’t think a bit of banter between that fruit, “Lurker”, and myself would lead to this.”
    —Translation: “I didn’t think spouting a bunch of uniformed socialistic nonsense based on propaganda, refusing to admit to facts that clearly contradict me, and whining like a bitch would lead to a spankign by lurker.”

    “Anyway, eat healthy, lift weights, keep fit – and you should sidestep use of the health system in whatever country you happen to live, until your too old that it doesn’t matter.”
    —The Oprah Winfrey Health Plan!

    “Most doctors don’t know fuck all anyway – they are only taught “sickness” not “prevention”.”
    —perhaps in your socialized country, where only bureaucratic tools who work for low wages, doctors are fools. Here, because we pay them well, we get good ones who “know fuck.”

    Kiss off, commie. You have been bitchslapped.

    Like


  244. clarice:

    You’d be better off reading the evolutionary psychologist Kevin MacDonald’s trilogy, two of which are available in their entirety in pdf form: “The Culture of Critique” and “Separation and Its Discontents.”

    All other issues with his theories aside, the main problem with Kevin MacDonald is that he doesn’t offer any coherent and systematic exposition of the way he imagines the intellectual history of leftism. The entire “Culture of Critique” is basically just a series of disconnected statements that follow the pattern: X was of Jewish origin, produced influential and harmful leftist ideas, and felt some personal identification with Judaism. Rinse and repeat with the next X, piling up as many supporting citations as possible. By mounting such disorganized piles of evidence, he’s trying to leave a vague general impression that Jews were the main sinister force behind the development of modern leftism.

    Basically, his problem is that if he actually went to write a coherent intellectual history of leftism, he would have to either twist the facts beyond the breaking point or admit that at least some of the main currents of Anglo-leftism in fact spring from the traditional Non-Conformist Anglo-Protestant roots (i.e. the Moldbug’s main thesis). Sometimes he’s actually been forced to admit it to some extent — see for example this book review, where he concedes that in the 19th century, long before any significant Jewish intellectual influence existed in the U.S., the American Protestant tradition had already produced a leftist neo-Puritan “indigenous culture of critique” (his exact words!). To avoid compromising his main CofC thesis, he then tries to sell an extremely implausible story that this tradition was dead and buried by the end of the 19th century, and replaced with healthy Darwinism in the outlook of the American intelligentsia — which was only then assaulted, defeated, and replaced with loony Jewish-originated leftist ideas under which we’ve suffered to the present day. Sorry, but that’s a bit hard to swallow, given the history of the Progressive Era and the New Deal. (And also, I’d say, the philosophical implications of Darwinism itself, but let’s not open that can of worms.)

    (By the way, on p. 103 of this book review, MacDonald engages in a quite Moldbugesque rant against the modern PC left, which he openly brands as a product of the New England Puritan cultural legacy. Not a trace of such ideas is to be found in CofC, though, which leads one to conclude that it was intentionally written with a propaganda angle.)

    Like


  245. on September 12, 2009 at 5:18 pm The Fifth Horseman

    First and foremost, anyone does not see that Iraq of 2009 is far better off in every way than Iraq of the 10 years up to 2002 is a fool. The Oil for Food scandal alone had 500,000 children starve, so the notion that Iraq was peaceful and prosperous under Saddam as long as you didn’t disobey the state, is ignorant and absurd. Today, the violence in Iraq is very low. Saddam exterminated 200,000 a year directly, on top of all the starvation he caused indirectly.

    Nevermind the various polls of Iraqis who say their lives are dramatically better off now vs. under Saddam. Ignore the polls, the leftists know better.

    Nevermind, also, how much Islamic terrorism across the world has dropped after Iraq turned around in 2007. We don’t hear about Palenstinian suicide bombings, Kashmir, terrorism in Europe, etc. anymore. The few small bombings that happen now in Indonesia, Afghanistan, etc. are few and far between. For all the claim that the Iraq war would ‘create more terrorists’, quite the opposite has happened, as things appear now.

    Nevermind, also, that we will never have to worry about Saddam’s on/off WMD ambitions again, based on the 1981 Osirak reactor, chemical weapons used on Kurds, mustard gas labs, etc.

    Indian women are utterly unqualified to discuss political matters, as FeministX regularly demonstrates.

    Like


  246. PS, toolshed Zunder: there’s a little cuban whore who runs around here espousing how wonderful NotMyPresident is, adoring Castro, and shitting on her own family who actually want their stolen property back. You and her should marry and have the stupidest children possible.

    Then again, Mandy XD! has more STDs than Madonna at this point in her left wing whoring, so maybe her babymaker don’t work.

    Like


  247. on September 12, 2009 at 5:21 pm The Fifth Horseman

    Isn’t it odd that a foreigner like ‘Zunder’ would whine about US health-care costs and US expenditures in the WoT?

    It is the concern of US taxpayers, not brain-dead foreigners who have no say in the matter.

    These foreigners are so obsessed with America (since their own countries have far more severe problems that they have no solution for) that it is laughable.

    A country that Americans don’t have any reason to give one thought to is a country with people like Zunder obsessed with America.

    Like


  248. ironrailsironweights.

    Ew. What’s wrong with her ladyparts?

    Like


  249. Lurker, FIfth Horseman et all. Am i getting to you huh?

    Fuck me, a foreigner with an opinion.

    For the record – again, for you dumb cunts – I fucking love America. What a country! As diverse melting hotpot of cultures formed into a united union that (since the demise of USSR) is once again the most powerful nation on earth.

    Still – that doesn’t exclude it from having some major problems. And if one dare comment on those problems, little fruitcakes like “Lurker” think their whole world is about to crumble in a “commie” takeover.

    You have a democratic systerm right (just like we do). So, every four years the people get to vote whom they want in power. Or – would you like it that only the Republicans ever get to rule? You would wou;dn’t you. Then – whose the commies? I really don’t give a shit, in whatever country, whom is in power. Right wing, left wing, centre – who gives a shit.

    As long as they follow a democratic process – then you as a people get the chance to vote them back in or out every few years.

    So what – are you saying that all your fellow Americans that voted Democrat in this last election are all crazed closet commies?!

    Have some respect for your own process.
    If you want to live under continous right wing rule – then you are, in effect, a pseudo commie yourself – you dumb cunt.

    Fuck you are thick.

    Like


  250. Kiwis are cool. I don’t believe that Zunder is a typical one. I think normal New Zealanders kick his bitchy little socialist ass on a daily basis. Here is something to like about the Kiwis, for starters — their beer:

    Like


  251. on September 12, 2009 at 6:05 pm The Fifth Horseman

    Zunder,

    What many foreigners (and quite a few Americans) don’t grasp is that whichever party is in the White House, about 80% of the things remain the same. Only 20% of things ever change. The energy devoted to arguing about this 20% (or pretending that it is more than 20%) is surprisingly high.

    Examples :
    1) Clinton bombed Saddam twice (1993 and 1998), the second time on account of Saddam’s WMD programs. Clinton signed the Iraqi Liberation Act in 1998, where regime change in Iraq became official US policy. Bush merely exercised that act in 2003 (voted on 78-22 in the US Senate in 2002 i.e. Democrats voting for it).

    Al Gore would have invaded Iraq too, if he were President.

    2) Obama appears to be changing nothing at all in regards to US Iraq and Afghanistan policies. So Obama is continuing the Bush policies.

    So very little changes from one President to the next, despite the appearance of some ‘big change’ that the new person would bring.

    New Zealand is a very small country. A surprisingly large chunk of their economy is tied directly and indirectly to Peter Jackson and visits from the cricket teams of larger countries. Lord of the Rings tourism, cricket tourism, etc.

    I do notice that there are substantially more left-wingers in New Zealand than Australia. Australia has quite a few of the John Howard types.

    Like


  252. Zunder the dunder:

    “Am i getting to you huh?”
    —the stupidity of a marxist must always be slapped down.

    “Fuck me, a foreigner with an opinion.”
    —thanks to our nation, you’re allowed to have one.

    “Still – that doesn’t exclude it from having some major problems. And if one dare comment on those problems, little fruitcakes like “Lurker” think their whole world is about to crumble in a “commie” takeover.”
    —we have the best healthcare system in the world, as I showed you above. Better than yours. Period. So this problem is completely made up.

    “You have a democratic systerm right (just like we do).”
    –thanks to us, you do.

    “So, every four years the people get to vote whom they want in power. ”
    –actually every 2, nutjob. You probably never heard of the house of representatives, though.

    “Or – would you like it that only the Republicans ever get to rule? You would wou;dn’t you. Then – whose the commies? I really don’t give a shit, in whatever country, whom is in power. Right wing, left wing, centre – who gives a shit.”
    —I defy anyo0ne to make any sense of steroid-infused delustional rant.

    “As long as they follow a democratic process – then you as a people get the chance to vote them back in or out every few years.”
    —thanks for the explanation. Could explain the difference between the colors of the rainbow now?

    “So what – are you saying that all your fellow Americans that voted Democrat in this last election are all crazed closet commies?!”
    –lol. So opposing Nobama’s health plan===we hate everyone who voted for him and they are commies? Oh, and we have to believe everyone who voted for Nobama wanted healthcare reform?

    lol you are thick.

    “Have some respect for your own process.”
    —we do. Thats why we debate. We don’t need some brain dead propaganda repeating nutjob explaining our system to us.

    “If you want to live under continous right wing rule – then you are, in effect, a pseudo commie yourself – you dumb cunt.”
    —lol. notice the trogledyte in action. Suddenly less government=communism. Brilliant.

    “Fuck you are thick.”
    —said the man whose facts have been shown to be wrong and can’t respond to them.

    Go breed with mandy XD!, little man.

    Like


  253. Vladimir,

    Incidentally, I don’t disagree that one can find in Puritanism elements of “leftism”. It is possible to find strains of “leftism” in practically any tradition. Moldbug’s conception of leftism as a singular, mutating religious movement of recent origin is fundamentally retarded. Wipe out all memory of the politics and religion of the modern world, and new versions of “leftism” will arise again immediately. Human nature will remain the same. “Leftism” has no single origin.

    America was a Protestant country. Of course America’s homegrown leftists were mostly Protestant. Strangely, for the UR-initiate, Protestant-infused American strains of leftism were quite a bit less radical than those circulating in Central and Eastern Europe and among Jews.

    And that’s the main point I’m concerned with here — “leftism = Calvinism” is utter fucking rubbish. The Jewish question is secondary in this particular argument (though important if one aims to understand history rather than engage in nerd wankery).

    Ethnocentrism in some degree has characterized practically every ethnic group. This is one of the reasons it makes no sense to argue some magical disembodied, unstoppable religious meme is the primary actor in history while insisting we ignore the role of ethnicity, as Moldbug does. Much of 20th-century history simply doesn’t make sense if you pretend Jews aren’t ethnically conscious. Jews happen to be probably the single best organized and ethnocentric minority in the West, but to a lesser degree the same dynamic applies among other ethnicities.

    Moldbug is notorious for denying any co-ordinated Jewish activity in the United States of any kind. He is on record as saying the “Palestinian Lobby” has much greater cultural and political weight than AIPAC and that the Jews in the United States who actually have politcal power don’t think of themselves, or act, as Jews. All of this on the fact that his father was in the State Department.

    Moldbug is so breathtakingly dishonest that Sailer himself had to appear on a blog to talk him down from some especially embarrassing assertion regarding Jews and their political and cultural non existence.

    And don’t use vague terms like “New England elites” like Moldbug does. The aim of using vague terms like this is to imply that there are still some cohesive WASPs out there running things when in reality Jews are dominant among the elite class.

    Like


  254. Fair and reasoned comments, Fifth.

    I say again, just because I say I think Dub Bush was a “Village Idiot” doesn’t mean I think Obama is the 2nd coming.
    But – given a choice (which I didn’t have, but your fellow Americans did) I would have voted to oust the current Republican party.

    So what? Doesn’t make me a fucking commie. My old man (when he was 17) escaped from a communist (at the time) Eastern bloc country, by rowing a dinky little dinghy 100 nautical miles across the Dalmatian strait to Italy – just to escape the commie regime he was forced to live under.

    Iraq was invaded for couple reasons, Oil, and also to further strengthen (in the Bush administrations eyes) Israel’s position in that highly charged area of the world.

    So what – why the fuck not just come out and admit that? Why come out with bullshit like WMD and when that was proved to be fantasy, some bullshit link that Iraq had to 9-11?

    I would have had more respect for the Bush administration if they had have fronted up with the truth instead of hiding behind scare mongering bullshit as reasons to invade another country.

    I feel what you GOP needs to do is get someone to lead their party out of its current infighting and self destuction.
    I don’t think it helps with off the wall idiots like Rush Limbaugh spouting off his radical right wing lunacy. Keep that shit up and GOP will not be in power again for a long time.

    Like


  255. on September 12, 2009 at 6:22 pm ironrailsironweights

    What’s wrong with her ladyparts?

    As the shaving continues, her Glorious Natural Pelt will become a Hideous Pedophilic Bald Eagle 😦

    Peter

    Like


  256. Zunder the dunder:

    “I say again, just because I say I think Dub Bush was a “Village Idiot”
    –wrong. And this argument was about healthcare, not Bush—nice trying to move the goal posts, loser.

    ” given a choice (which I didn’t have, but your fellow Americans did) I would have voted to oust the current Republican party.”
    —no one gives a shit what a braindead foreigner thinks, sheepfucker.

    “So what? Doesn’t make me a fucking commie.”
    —wanting socialized healthcare does.

    “My old man (when he was 17) escaped from a communist (at the time) Eastern bloc country, by rowing a dinky little dinghy 100 nautical miles across the Dalmatian strait to Italy – just to escape the commie regime he was forced to live under.”
    —blah blah blah. Hitler’s grandfather was jewish. Irrelevant to you, ‘roid rage.

    “Iraq was invaded for couple reasons, Oil, and also to further strengthen (in the Bush administrations eyes) Israel’s position in that highly charged area of the world.”
    —lmao, wrong. It was invaded because intelligence from more than a dozen nations stated he had WMD.

    “So what – why the fuck not just come out and admit that? Why come out with bullshit like WMD and when that was proved to be fantasy, some bullshit link that Iraq had to 9-11?”
    —Sigh. Bush did not invade Iraq b/c of 9-11 nor ever claimed to. That is a lie.

    “I would have had more respect for the Bush administration if they had have fronted up with the truth instead of hiding behind scare mongering bullshit as reasons to invade another country.”
    —they did not lie. They believed the information.

    “I feel what you GOP needs to do is get someone to lead their party out of its current infighting and self destuction.”
    —from your years as a successful politcal campaigner, no doubt? lol moron.

    “I don’t think it helps with off the wall idiots like Rush Limbaugh spouting off his radical right wing lunacy.”
    —doubt you ever listened to him. You’re far too stupid for that.

    “Keep that shit up and GOP will not be in power again for a long time.”
    –lol. Anyone else want to be he gets all his info from the Daily Kos?

    lol sheepfucker.

    Like


  257. My old man (when he was 17) escaped from a communist (at the time) Eastern bloc country, by rowing a dinky little dinghy 100 nautical miles across the Dalmatian strait to Italy

    I have Eastern Block escape stories too. At 12 I saw my old man dragged away by Czechoslovak agents and pushed into a car and for a few days I assumed he was dead.

    Anyway, I’d like to know your definition of “right wing” and why it’s bad.

    Like


  258. What’s the over/under on Zunder the Dunder being in Special Ed?

    Like


  259. Please note the casual conspiracy-laden unprovable global theories by this raging leftwing socialist pussy. And how he still refuses to argue the facts above that so ripped him a new asshole.

    Like


  260. Zunder…oh zunder…where are you….lol sheepfucker.

    Like


  261. Well, PA, I never said Right Wing was bad mate.

    Politically I am Centre-Left.

    But, as opposed to some, when a Right wing government is elected (as New Zealand itself elected last November after 9 years of Centre-left rule) I respect the process – and I respect the people rights to vote in our out whom they choose.

    That doesn’t mean I have to agree with Rights political views – but I don’t label all Right-wingers as lunatics just because they have more conservatice political views than I.
    I said label “all right-wingers” – because that Limbaugh is a certified lunatic – as bad as that nutcase Pastor (forget his name) that spouted off a bunch of crap and embarrased the Obama campaign.

    He, Limbaugh, will help to fuck up GOP chances in the next election.

    But hey – despite the Dems being in control, it is still a free country, so he can spout his shit off, just like we are doing on the internet here.

    Like


  262. lurker, you sound more deranged than glenn beck. give it a rest, kid.

    Like


  263. on September 12, 2009 at 6:54 pm The Fifth Horseman

    I would have voted to oust the current Republican party.

    Part of what made Ronald Reagan great is that Jimmy Carter was before him. Everything is relative, and Obama could very well prove to be a Carter for some subsequent GOP President.

    I feel what you GOP needs to do is get someone to lead their party out of its current infighting and self destuction.

    The GOP was riding high in 2004. It fell pretty far in just 4 years. The performance of the Democrats now (who are in the same position that the GOP was in 4 years earlier) ensures a similar fall. Obama’s approval rating is below 50% after just 8 months, while Bush did not dip below this level until 5 years in.

    So the peak-to-trough time for a party is usually short. People wrote off the Democrats in 2004, just as they are writing off the GOP now. Both are mistakes.

    Iraq was invaded for couple reasons, Oil, and also to further strengthen (in the Bush administrations eyes) Israel’s position in that highly charged area of the world.

    So what – why the fuck not just come out and admit that? Why come out with bullshit like WMD and when that was proved to be fantasy, some bullshit link that Iraq had to 9-11?

    a) Oil : America pays market prices for oil. If America were taking the oil for free, that would be stealing (as the British stole gemstones from India, and the French stole many things from Africa). But liberating oil supply to trade on the free market is not wrong. In fact, now the oil revenues go to the Iraqi people, rather than into Saddam’s pockets.

    b) I repeat again that US official policy to oust Saddam goes back to 1998. Clinton attacked Saddam based on his WMD programs, killing thousands. This is Operation Desert Fox. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Desert_Fox

    1998 was before 9/11, but after the 1993 WTC bombings. Saddam’s WMD activities were known even in 1998 (and mentioned often by Clinton), and what Saddam had done until 1998 was already grounds for his removal, again as authorized by Clinton. People forget how much Clinton talked about Saddam’s WMD programs. Even Vladimir Putin talked about Saddam’s WMD hobbies.

    So franky, the 2003 invasion was overdue.

    c) No US government official tied Iraq to 9/11. I challenge anyone to produce a YouTube clip of such. If they did, they would not have waited 18 months after 9/11/2001 to attack Saddam – it would have been simultaneous with Afghanistan.

    They tied Iraq to *Al-Qaeda*, and rightly, since Al-Qaeda was receiving a haven and financing from Saddam. The Salman Pak training camp in Iraq was proof, as was the friendship between Uday Hussein and Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, as was Saddam’s historical use of chemical and biological weapons.

    This is the reason 40 countries joined in the coalition to invade Iraq. Poland and Australia were among the top 6 contributors. It is not possible to ‘lie to’ 40 countries, many of whom have their own intelligence agencies (British MI6, etc.).

    There were many AQ attacks both before and after 9/11, BTW. Saddam was linked to the first WTC attack in 1993 (which would have been worse than 9/11 if it had succeeded). Also, the anthrax postal scare after 9/11 were a cause of suspicion, since Saddam was known to be producing anthrax in the past.

    The Bali nightclub attacks in 2002 killed Australians and Kiwis. The attacks in Madrid, London, Bombay, Jordan, Egypt, Turkey, and Morocco were all Al-Qaeda attacks, but the war in Iraq did successfully break the back of AQ (since so many AQ terrorists were drawn into Iraq, only to get swiftly killed by US Marines), and so we see no more such attacks in the West.

    So all in all, a net plus.

    Like


  264. Zunder the dunder:
    “Well, PA, I never said Right Wing was bad mate.”
    —right. you just champion socialism and attack anyone who disagrees. Actions…

    “Politically I am Centre-Left.”
    —thanks for a completely meaningless and unasked for description

    “But, as opposed to some, when a Right wing government is elected (as New Zealand itself elected last November after 9 years of Centre-left rule) I respect the process – and I respect the people rights to vote in our out whom they choose.”
    —lol. Zunder, you meaningless twit. You think respecting the process=agreeing with everything the government wants? lol In a real democracy, people protest and debate, even after your hero Nobama is elected, moron.

    “That doesn’t mean I have to agree with Rights political views – but I don’t label all Right-wingers as lunatics just because they have more conservatice political views than I.”
    –no, you just invent problems without facts.

    “I said label “all right-wingers” – because that Limbaugh is a certified lunatic ”
    —Question, dunderhead: have you ever listened or read anything limbaugh has said?

    – “as bad as that nutcase Pastor (forget his name) that spouted off a bunch of crap and embarrased the Obama campaign.”

    –the black Klan leader nobama worshipped for 20 years?

    “He, Limbaugh, will help to fuck up GOP chances in the next election.”
    –FYI, sheepfucker: he’s been around 20 years nationally; he helped the GOP win congress in 94. And you have no idea what he’s said or written. Something tells me YOU HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT.

    “But hey – despite the Dems being in control, it is still a free country, so he can spout his shit off, just like we are doing on the internet here.”
    –but but but DUNDERHEAD: We’re supposed to respect the process! That means sitting on our hands and shutting up for communism! At leats in your warped world view.

    lol, sheepfucker.

    Like


  265. on September 12, 2009 at 6:59 pm The Fifth Horseman

    “I would have voted to oust the current Republican party.”

    Part of what made Ronald Reagan great is that Jimmy Carter was before him. Everything is relative, and Obama could very well prove to be a Carter for some subsequent GOP President.

    “I feel what you GOP needs to do is get someone to lead their party out of its current infighting and self destuction.”

    The GOP was riding high in 2004. It fell pretty far in just 4 years. The performance of the Democrats now (who are in the same position that the GOP was in 4 years earlier) ensures a similar fall. Obama’s approval rating is below 50% after just 8 months, while Bush did not dip below this level until 5 years in.

    So the peak-to-trough time for a party is usually short. People wrote off the Democrats in 2004, just as they are writing off the GOP now. Both are mistakes.

    “Iraq was invaded for couple reasons, Oil, and also to further strengthen (in the Bush administrations eyes) Israel’s position in that highly charged area of the world.

    So what – why the fuck not just come out and admit that? Why come out with bullshit like WMD and when that was proved to be fantasy, some bullshit link that Iraq had to 9-11? ”

    a) Oil : America pays market prices for oil. If America were taking the oil for free, that would be stealing (as the British stole gemstones from India, and the French stole many things from Africa). But liberating oil supply to trade on the free market is not wrong. In fact, now the oil revenues go to the Iraqi people, rather than into Saddam’s pockets.

    b) I repeat again that US official policy to oust Saddam goes back to 1998. Clinton attacked Saddam based on his WMD programs, killing thousands. This is Operation Desert Fox.

    1998 was before 9/11, but after the 1993 WTC bombings. Saddam’s WMD activities were known even in 1998 (and mentioned often by Clinton), and what Saddam had done until 1998 was already grounds for his removal, again as authorized by Clinton. People forget how much Clinton talked about Saddam’s WMD programs. Even Vladimir Putin talked about Saddam’s WMD hobbies.

    So franky, the 2003 invasion was overdue.

    c) No US government official tied Iraq to 9/11. I challenge anyone to produce a YouTube clip of such. If they did, they would not have waited 18 months after 9/11/2001 to attack Saddam – it would have been simultaneous with Afghanistan.

    They tied Iraq to *Al-Qaeda*, and rightly, since Al-Qaeda was receiving a haven and financing from Saddam. The Salman Pak training camp in Iraq was proof, as was the friendship between Uday Hussein and Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, as was Saddam’s historical use of chemical and biological weapons.

    There were many AQ attacks both before and after 9/11, BTW. Saddam was linked to the first WTC attack in 1993 (which would have been worse than 9/11 if it had succeeded). Also, the anthrax postal scare after 9/11 were a cause of suspicion, since Saddam was known to be producing anthrax in the past.

    This is the reason 40 countries joined in the coalition to invade Iraq. Poland and Australia were among the top 6 contributors. It is not possible to ‘lie to’ 40 countries, many of whom have their own intelligence agencies (British MI6, etc.). The only major developed countries that did NOT participate were France, Germany, and Canada.

    The Bali nightclub attacks in 2002 killed Australians and Kiwis. The attacks in Madrid, London, Bombay, Jordan, Egypt, Turkey, and Morocco were all Al-Qaeda attacks, but the war in Iraq did successfully break the back of AQ (since so many AQ terrorists were drawn into Iraq, only to get swiftly killed by US Marines), and so we see no more such attacks in the West.

    So all in all, a net plus.

    Like


  266. on September 12, 2009 at 7:00 pm The Fifth Horseman

    Zunder,

    I have a detailed comment with links in it, that is in moderation. Please wait for it.

    Like


  267. itsmejizznut:

    “lurker, you sound more deranged than glenn beck.”
    —have you even bothered to read Zunder’s brainless postings?

    “give it a rest, kid.”
    –thanks, kid, given your choice of SN, you’re not my go to advice guy.

    And who wants to bet this is just zunder posting under a different name, too afraid to face off?

    Like


  268. zunder…oh zunder…where are you.

    Like


  269. In 1990, Thatcher convened a group of historians to help her evaluate her concerns that Germany could rise again. “There is no danger of a Fourth Reich,” Professor Norman Stone recalled telling Thatcher, the London Times reports. “Even if there had been, the low German birth rate would mean that the new Wehrmacht would consist of old-age pensioners.”
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6829860.ece

    Like


  270. What’s the matter, Zunder? Commie got your tongue?

    Like


  271. Uh-oh…zunder’s got a blog…and its everything you’d expect from a below-IQ shit-for-brains commie!

    Like


  272. Vladimir,

    Of course, they’re “disconnected” and “disorganized” if you assume your conclusion: that Jews have been and are totally innocuous, haven’t and don’t pursue their own interests, often at the expense of their hosts. Then they’re just a bunch of unrelated facts of history that merely appear to be related to each other somehow, no matter how many facts there are and how much they resemble some sort of basic pattern.

    This is an utterly ineffectual critique, and one that could be leveled at Moldbug as well. Moldbug does essentially the same thing, except in his case the villains are different and the sources are basically old books in the Google Books archive.

    MacDonald’s goal wasn’t necessarily to write a “coherent intellectual history of Leftism.”

    From the preface of “Culture of Critique”:

    “There have been complaints that I am viewing Judaism in a monolithic manner. This is definitely not the case. Rather, in each movement that I discuss, my methodology has been:

    (1.) Find influential movements dominated by Jews, with no implication that all or most Jews are involved in these movements and no restrictions on what the movements are. For example, I touch on Jewish neo-conservatism which is a departure in some ways from the other movements I discuss. In general, relatively few Jews were involved in most of these movements and significant numbers of Jews may have been unaware of their existence. Even Jewish leftist radicalism — surely the most widespread and influential Jewish subculture of the 20th century — may have been a minority movement within Jewish communities in the United States and other Western societies for most periods. As a result, when I criticize these movements I am not necessarily criticizing most Jews. Nevertheless, these movements were influential and they were Jewishly motivated.

    (2.) Determine whether the Jewish participants in those movements identified as Jews AND thought of their involvement in the movement as advancing specific Jewish interests. Involvement may be unconscious or involve self-deception, but for the most part it was quite easy and straightforward to find evidence for these propositions. If I thought that self-deception was important (as in the case of many Jewish radicals), I provided evidence that in fact they did identify as Jews and were deeply concerned about Jewish issues despite surface appearances to the contrary. (See also Ch. 1 of CofC.)

    (3.) Try to gauge the influence of these movements on non-Jewish society. Keep in mind that the influence of an intellectual or political movement dominated by Jews is independent of the percentage of the Jewish community that is involved in the movement or supports the movement.

    (4.) Try to show how non-Jews responded to these movements — for example, were they a source of anti-Semitism?

    Several of the movements I discuss have been very influential in the social sciences. However, I do not argue that there are no Jews who do good social science, and in fact I provide a list of prominent Jewish social scientists who in my opinion do not meet the conditions outlined under (2) above (see Ch. 2 of CofC). If there was evidence that these social scientists identified as Jews and had a Jewish agenda in doing social science (definitely not in the case of most of those listed, but possibly true in the case of Richard Herrnstein — see below), then they would have been candidates for inclusion in the book. The people I cite as contributing to evolutionary/biological perspectives are indeed ethnically Jewish, but for most of them I have no idea whether they either identity as Jews or if they have a Jewish agenda in pursuing their research simply because there is no evidence to be found in their work or elsewhere. If there is evidence that a prominent evolutionary biologist identifies as a Jew and views his work in sociobiology or evolutionary psychology as advancing Jewish agendas, then he or she should have been in CofC as an example of the phenomenon under study rather than as simply a scientist working in the area of evolutionary studies.

    Like


  273. [Cont. from previous comment]

    Interestingly, in the case of one of those I mention, Richard J. Herrnstein, Alan Ryan (1994, 11) writes, ‘Herrnstein essentially wants the world in which clever Jewish kids or their equivalent make their way out of their humble backgrounds and end up running Goldman Sachs or the Harvard physics department.’ This is a stance that is typical, I suppose, of neo-conservatism, a Jewish movement I discuss in several places, and it is the sort of thing that, if true, would suggest that Herrnstein did perceive the issues discussed in The Bell Curve as affecting Jewish interests in a way that Charles Murray, his co-author, did not. (Ryan contrasts Murray’s and Herrnstein’s world views: ‘Murray wants the Midwest in which he grew up — a world in which the local mechanic didn’t care two cents whether he was or wasn’t brighter than the local math teacher.’) Similarly, 20th-century theoretical physics does not qualify as a Jewish intellectual movement precisely because it was good science and there are no signs of ethnic involvement in its creation: Jewish identification and pursuit of Jewish interests were not important to the content of the theories or to the conduct of the intellectual movement. Yet Jews have been heavily overrepresented among the ranks of theoretical physicists.

    This conclusion remains true even though Einstein, the leading figure among Jewish physicists, was a strongly motivated Zionist (Fölsing 1997, 494-505), opposed assimilation as a contemptible form of ‘mimicry’ (p. 490), preferred to mix with other Jews whom he referred to as his ‘tribal companions’ (p. 489), embraced the uncritical support for the Bolshevik regime in Russia typical of so many Jews during the 1920s and 1930s, including persistent apology for the Moscow show trials in the 1930s (pp. 644-5), and switched from a high-minded pacifism during World War I, when Jewish interests were not at stake, to advocating the building of atomic bombs to defeat Hitler. From his teenage years he disliked the Germans and in later life criticized Jewish colleagues for converting to Christianity and acting like Prussians. He especially disliked Prussians, who were the elite ethnic group in Germany. Reviewing his life at age 73, Einstein declared his ethnic affiliation in no uncertain terms: ‘My relationship with Jewry had become my strongest human tie once I achieved complete clarity about our precarious position among the nations’ (in Fölsing 1997, 488). According to Fölsing, Einstein had begun developing this clarity from an early age, but did not acknowledge it until much later, a form of self-deception: ‘As a young man with bourgeois-liberal views and a belief in enlightenment, he had refused to acknowledge [his Jewish identity]’ (in Fölsing 1997, 488).

    In other words, the issues of the ethnic identification and even ethnic activism on the part of people like Einstein are entirely separate from the issue of whether such people viewed the content of the theories themselves as furthering ethnic interests, and, in the case of Einstein, there is no evidence that he did so. The same cannot be said for Freud, the New York Intellectuals, the Boasians, and the Frankfurt School, in which ‘scientific’ theories were fashioned and deployed to advance ethnic group interests. This ideological purpose becomes clear when the unscientific nature of these movements is understood. Much of the discussion in CofC documented the intellectual dishonesty, the lack of empirical rigor, the obvious political and ethnic motivation, the expulsion of dissenters, the collusion among co-ethnics to dominate intellectual discourse, and the general lack of scientific spirit that pervaded them. In my view, the scientific weakness of these movements is evidence of their group-strategic function.

    Like


  274. This one for you commie lovers, especially the castro worshipping Mandy XD:

    http://cuba.foreignpolicyblogs.com/2009/09/07/panfilo-cubas-youtube-rebel/

    Like


  275. Well, Fifth, that the Iraq war helped break the back of Al Qaeda is still up for debate – be that as it may – a whole new breed of Al Qaeda clones are growing up with an even more terminal hatred of America and its policies.

    Anyway – why stop with Iraq and Afghanistan? Why not stamp out all the despot commie / dictator regimes around the world? There are plent of ’em.

    No. In fact – go back in histroy, and you will see US (and other countries equally as culpable), supported the lunatic Leopold II to systematically destroy and decimate the people and the resources of the Congo. Why? Because the natural resources of the Congo were of immense interest to the US.
    Don’t worry about the death and destruction of the citizens of the country ruled by a lunatic sitting on this throne in Belgium.

    There is even evidence to suggest the US was involved in the assasination of Lumumba, whom at the time was the main political figure seen as a threat to Leopold holding power.

    Leopold II made Saddam look like a saint, and Idi Amin look like a choirboy. But no US invasion to oust this prick, was there.

    Really – who gives a fuck whether you agree with me or not. The young of the Islamic nations feel they have been picked on by the US when there have been and are equally as bad regimes ruled by nutters, that the US has done nothing about. Herein lies the quandry, and I believe, has put your country at an even greater risk of terrorism in the years ahead.

    I hope, of course, your country never sees terrorism again, but the seeds have been planted, in my opinion, by your country’s flawed foreign policy.

    Like


  276. Zunder,

    People reap what they sow.. it just that sometimes the crop consumes their kids and grandkids

    Like


  277. Hey, Lurker, unless you have something more insightfull to comment on my blog http://zunderdownunder.wordpress.com/ other than me being a “sheepfucker”, then it will be DELETE everytime .

    So this is what you resort to when people disagree with your point of view, by spamming their blogs with “sheepfucker”?

    Like


  278. clarice,

    If whites all over the world weren’t so intent on killing jews, they might not have developed such a strong self identity.

    Like


  279. In the news,

    It is more about UK sinking faster than Germany, which it is

    Like


  280. Zunder the dunder, nothing like a crazy factless theory to deny relaity, eh, boy?:

    ” a whole new breed of Al Qaeda clones are growing up with an even more terminal hatred of America and its policies.”
    —got proof, buddy boy? The invasion of Iraq has actually reduced Al-Queda’s recruits. Wrong again.

    “Anyway – why stop with Iraq and Afghanistan? Why not stamp out all the despot commie / dictator regimes around the world? There are plent of ‘em.”
    —The enemy of the best is not the good. weak sauce, boy.

    “No. In fact – go back in histroy, and you will see US (and other countries equally as culpable), supported the lunatic Leopold II to systematically destroy and decimate the people and the resources of the Congo. Why? Because the natural resources of the Congo were of immense interest to the US.”
    —So men not even born when those policies were carried out nonetheless must continue those policies?

    “Don’t worry about the death and destruction of the citizens of the country ruled by a lunatic sitting on this throne in Belgium.”
    —Bush was not president then to stop it, dingbat.

    “There is even evidence to suggest the US was involved in the assasination of Lumumba, whom at the time was the main political figure seen as a threat to Leopold holding power.”
    —show us proof.

    “Leopold II made Saddam look like a saint, and Idi Amin look like a choirboy. But no US invasion to oust this prick, was there.”
    —The enemy of the bets is not the good.

    “Really – who gives a fuck whether you agree with me or not.”
    –No one. You’re a lunatic.

    “The young of the Islamic nations feel they have been picked on by the US when there have been and are equally as bad regimes ruled by nutters, that the US has done nothing about. ”
    —prooof…..

    “Herein lies the quandry, and I believe, has put your country at an even greater risk of terrorism in the years ahead.”
    –and you know this from you years in the intelligence community, fucking sheep and raping chickens, right kiwi? 🙂

    “the seeds have been planted, in my opinion, by your country’s flawed foreign policy.”
    —proof…

    ah, hell, he’s just a crazy shithead commie. Who moves the goal posts and runs away.

    Zunder the sheepfucker!

    Like


  281. The Fifth Horseman,

    Why are so intent on fellating conservative whites.. do you think they will eventually treat you as an equal?

    Like


  282. Note how Zunder is now petrified to say anything to me, considering I’ll rip him another asshole on facts.

    Like


  283. lurker,

    shouting does not change the course of history, or your ride into oblivion.

    Like


  284. on September 12, 2009 at 7:58 pm The Fifth Horseman

    a whole new breed of Al Qaeda clones are growing up with an even more terminal hatred of America and its policies.

    What evidence is there of this? There have been very few attacks in the last 24 months (none in any Western country). So if anything, the reverse would appear to be true based on visible evidence. The distinct absence of terrorist attacks seems to refute this unsupported belief.

    The evidence would indicate that America has successfully moved the Muslim world away from terrorism as a mainstream tactic.

    but the seeds have been planted, in my opinion, by your country’s flawed foreign policy.

    The evidence appears to show exactly the reverse. America alone is able to take former defeated enemies, rebuild them at America’s expense, and turn them into friendly trading partners. Germany, Japan at one time, Iraq today. Even VietNam is friendly with the US now. No other country has such a knack to transform other countries into the ideals of freedom and prosperity. Silvio Berlusconi mentions this often.

    That is hardly ‘flawed’. It is in fact the most successful foreign policy ever. Contrast that with the British/French treaty of Versailles, which actually did sow resentment among Germans, and allowed Germans to rationalize a retaliation against Britain and France.

    Why not stamp out all the despot commie / dictator regimes around the world?

    They were not tied to Al-Qaeda. Iraq and Afghanistan were. North Korea, for example, is not actively killing Americans, so action is not warranted.

    African regimes : The one country that does far more to assassinate other foreign leaders is France. Didn’t France sink a ship right in Auckland harbor leading to tensions with New Zealand? Chirac was also taking bribes from Saddam. So if anything, most of what you say would be true if you replace ‘the US’ with ‘France’ in each sentence.

    Like


  285. The Fifth Horseman

    The evidence would indicate that America has successfully moved the Muslim world away from terrorism as a mainstream tactic.

    The Muslim desire for blood and carnage has not gone anywhere, and neither has terrorism.

    America alone is able to take former defeated enemies, rebuild them at America’s expense, and turn them into friendly trading partners. Germany, Japan at one time, Iraq today.

    Iraq is completely different than Germany and Japan. There is no comparison. Just because it worked with Germany and Japan doesn’t mean it will with Iraq (let alone Afghanistan).

    Like


  286. The rest of the world is fucked if Zunder reflects their reality. Leftists like to, ahem, hijack the meaning of 9-11. But let me be clear, as I’ve always said, Al Qaeda is motivated purely by a vision of Islam that must punish non-believers. You can blame it on Isreal, global warming, Bush not taking the finest country in the history of the world to join the dustbin of history that so many intellectuals are jumping into, but…

    That is just wishful thinking. bin Laden doesn’t give a hoot about Bush, aside from his being a worthy adversary (unlike certain 41st and 43rd presidents). The power, wealth, and freedom of America is a direct insult to Islam as Allah promised that his followers would be ascendant.

    Leftists will view every human conflict through their fetid lens of economic struggle. This isn’t neo-marxist realism, the Baran thesis at work. And therefore, the GWOT isn’t a scientific historical inevitability. Surrender is not an option.

    Otherwise, Zunder is a vituperative idiot. Lurker is also vituperative, despite any other qualities he may have. So, have fun you two. But, let me be clear, Zunder should pay attention to his own shithole country. If ignorant foreigners want to slag America, put it back in their face. What’s so great about an agrarian collective posing as an alleged country who’s sole export is fish and lamb products?

    Like


  287. Why does New Zealand have some of the fastest race horses in the world?
    Because the horses have seen what they do with their sheep

    Like


  288. Askjoe – What are you having a go at Lurker for?
    You then come out with your own lame sheep joke.

    I am not sure what happened to my last post, but I will say it here again, Lurker, if you want to make a comment on my wordpress blog, then you are welcome, but come up with something better than spamming “sheepfucker”, or it will be DELETE everytime.

    Like


  289. Why not stamp out all the despot commie / dictator regimes around the world?

    i love this one, you stupid fucking leftist…

    BECAUSE YOU WON’T LET US

    maybe if the left stopped siding automatically with every enemy of western civ we could get rid of a few of them

    every time we try to change some disgusting regime or destrot some piece of shit “country” you all cry and moan and protest and make a big fuckin deal in our council of enemies, the UN. you LOVE and defend any despot unless he is friendly to the US, then they are anathema

    we have to send our military to fight with one hand tied behind their backs to keep you all from crying into your pillows every night over every ENEMY casualty and we have to feed the enemies women and children with care packages.

    Like


  290. Dana, Lurker, and Askjoe – you are the archetypical ignorant, thick, ugly american idiot that the rest of the world laughs at.

    Fucking lames ass idiots.

    Luckily, I have been to your country, and realise your view, even amongst conservatives – is luckily of the minority.

    Lurker, I’d snap your neck in one move you little faggot. Lucky this is all in cyberspace eh, you little fucking whimp.

    Like


  291. dana,

    The “west” you want is over.

    Why should anyone care.. what is in it for them.

    Like


  292. yes lucifer i’ve heard you play your one note, it’s really lovely

    Like


  293. Zunder – You have a democratic systerm right (just like we do).

    We have a Constitutional Federal Republic which elects some representatives through a democratic process. There’s actually a big difference between that and a true democracy. To begin with, legally it doesn’t matter if the majority wants to do something, or if the party in power wants to do something, if said action violates the Constitution. (Practically we see that our government pays no heed to the Constitution. But that doesn’t change the legality of their actions.)

    Most people don’t realize what the founders understood, namely that democracies are unstable and prone to decay towards tyranny. Senators were not originally elected by popular vote in this country, they were elected by state legislatures. The House represented the will of the people while the Senate was to represent the will of the sovereign states. Now both are appointed by popular election, a big step backwards for state sovereignty and our Federal form of government. Senators are now concerned only with the whims of the people, not with the sovereignty of their respective state governments against Federal expansions of power.

    Along those lines, the electoral college was also put in place as a buffer between the popular vote and the president. Our founders wisely did not trust unconstrained democracy.

    So what – are you saying that all your fellow Americans that voted Democrat in this last election are all crazed closet commies?!

    No, they were simply lied to. They were angry at Bush and the Republicans for never ending war, excessive deficit spending, a failing economy, and massive taxpayer funded bailouts to the very criminals who caused our economic collapse. Obama repeated the word “change” until it became synonymous with his name, and he won.

    What change did we get? Never ending war, excessive deficit spending (multiplied by at least 3x), an even worse economy, and more massive taxpayer funded bailouts for political cronies. On top of that we got the attempted government takeover of 1/6th of the U.S. economy in a rushed session of Congress.

    Most of the people who voted for “change” now regret it precisely because they are not closet communists and do not approve of what Obama is doing, which is pretty much everything Bush did plus massive intrusion of government power into our lives.

    Like


  294. we have to send our military to fight with one hand tied behind their backs to keep you all from crying into your pillows every night over every ENEMY casualty and we have to feed the enemies women and children with care packages.

    QFT. If we had fought WWII this way the east coast would be speaking German, and the west coast would be speaking Japanese.

    Like


  295. dana,

    You are being unoriginal… so I have to be repetitive.

    Like


  296. ganttsquarry – thanks for the compliment. I started reading your blog. I enjoyed the piece about rebuilding the WTC site. You’re right, and I’ve had the same thoughts for a while now. Past generations would have rebuilt the two towers, only taller and stronger, and they would have done it in a couple years.

    And they probably would have started right after turning Afghanistan into a glass parking lot.

    Like


  297. Most white idiots do not understand one simple concept.

    In the past you did not care about others, now others are doing that to you. You mistook luck and chance for competence, but luck and chance do run out. Now you just look pathetic, like a 60 year old woman pretending to be 16.

    If you play by animal rules, you get animalistic outcomes.

    Like


  298. In the past you did not care about others

    Idiotic things like this reveal Lucy as a hurt little boy. “Care”? what exactly does this mean? What is this Luciferian theory of History based on “care?”

    Setting up hospitals and sanitation systems in third world shitholes, eradicating disease and ending glavery globally?

    No, that’s not what Lucy meant at all. What it is, is that this is the second time Lucy showed his tender, hurting side. That’s why he once again used fuzzy words like “care.”

    He really needs a hug. Isn’t there a fat whore in a by-the-hour Reno motel you can negotiate some GFE with?

    Like


  299. PA,

    Your glorified version of white history does not match reality.

    The point is:

    If you believe that legitimacy and power flows from the barrel of a gun, you must also accept that there will be a day when someone else will use a better gun to flow your balls and head off. It just happens that you were born at the ‘wrong’ time… tough luck.

    Like


  300. You mistook luck and chance for competence, but luck and chance do run out.

    I’m not white, and hell, my ancestors were purchased as slaves by whites*, but I certainly can’t say that whites aren’t competent. They may have lucked out with the right IQ, but I’d argue that some white nations became rich and powerful via foreign and industrial policy. All of the luck in the world doesn’t amount to much if you lack the ability to manage what comes with that luck.

    *My ancestors were in that small group of enslaved that won their freedom by fighting back…

    Like


  301. David Alexander,

    Luck is often indistinguishable from competence, however luck wears off.

    Like


  302. lucifer we are being “kind” to “the world” by not schmeissing them off the planet with our massive arsenal of nuclear and conventional weapons. how many MOABS would it take to shut you all the fuck up?

    Like


  303. David Alexander,

    If IQ was important:

    Why did north and east europeans burn over half a million women as witches (15th to 17th century), and ask them about the shape and size of the devils penis (before burning them). The people running these “trials” were some of the most educated men of their time.

    Why did most western cities lack proper drainage system until the 1890s? Surely, they were not uneducated.. and were led by the high IQ elite.

    hahahaha

    Like


  304. dana,

    other have that stuff too. plus your society is more vulnerable to such “disruptions”

    now go and eat some shit.

    Like


  305. on September 12, 2009 at 10:00 pm The Fifth Horseman

    TokyoOmegaFist :

    The Muslim desire for blood and carnage has not gone anywhere, and neither has terrorism.

    I beg to differ. In fact, Muslims are evolving in a direction that could be quite favorable for our goal of toppling feminism and misandry.

    Iraq is completely different than Germany and Japan. There is no comparison. Just because it worked with Germany and Japan doesn’t mean it will with Iraq (let alone Afghanistan).

    Only Euro-leftists say this (and how often are they ever right?). The progress in the first 7 years in Iraq has been as much as Germany and Japan managed in the first 25 years after WW2.

    Some human values are universal. This includes Muslims. The thing about George W. Bush is that contrary to what pointy-head losers think, he understood both Muslim psychology and universal human needs better than most.

    Like


  306. dana,

    I will also remind you that white solidarity is a dream. Read up on the history of various wars between white groups and nations. You have been at each others throat for centuries, and you still work against each other.

    Now eat some more shit.

    Like


  307. i always like being reminded of things i havent said, advocated or would even be allowed to participate in

    thanks!

    Like


  308. Luck is often indistinguishable from competence, however luck wears off.

    Being lucky is having mineral resources and good harbours. Being competent is making the best use of your luck, and I’d argue that white people have done a decent job of that.

    Why did north and east europeans burn over half a million women as witches

    Yes, because the Indians are magically better, and don’t believe in superstitions as well?

    Why did most western cities lack proper drainage system until the 1890s?

    Yes, because all Indian cities have proper drainage systems in 2009?

    Like


  309. That Amish book actually doesn’t look too bad, judging by the cover.

    Like


  310. David Alexander,

    My point is- whites are no better or worser than others. The problem is that whites think they are better, when every objective measure suggest that they are not!

    Like


  311. Lucifer is such a boring failure that he even is getting colored people to defend whites (David Alexander, Sofia, Horseman, etc.). There is certainly a market out there for anti-white hate, but Lucifer is too boring, too unoriginal, and too repulsive to tap into it.

    Has ANYONE, of any race, ever sided with Lucifer over here?? Anyone at all?

    Talk about impotence…

    Like


  312. I totally side with Lucy he keeps my bread buttered.

    Like


  313. Anon,

    DA, Sofia and Horseman are “uncle toms” + I do not require anybody to support my views.

    Consider this: If what I was saying was demonstrably false, why would anyone respond to me?

    Like


  314. Zunder

    You seem to think that the USA has always had this power to effortlessly change or decisively influence foreign governments. As if there were an easy choice other than “work with what is there” or “invade and topple”. In reality, there hardly ever is an easy 3rd way. Local elites want to stay in power very badly.
    If various people in shit-hole countries want to resort to anti-US terrorism because we failed to wave our hand and make their problems disappear – they need to tread carefully.
    You do realize that by invading Iraq, the US saved the lives of about half the Iraqi population. Hussein desperately wanted to keep the world thinking he had WMDs. He could easily have made the world think he had obtained Russian Mafia sourced/ nukes and tried to play chicken with the US or Israel. He was that out-of-touch. And he would have gotten smashed.
    If 4000 years of Iranian history comes to a permanent end within the next couple of years… well, I tried to explain these things.

    Lucifer
    If you were actually getting even whore-pussy, you would not have such a huge chip on your soft rounded shoulders.

    Like


  315. Prossy,

    Lawyer, lobbyist, IBer or politico?

    Like


  316. Lucifer

    If you were getting even some whore-pussy you would not have such a huge chip on your soft, round shoulders.

    Like


  317. Rum,

    I like toying around with idiots.

    Like


  318. Rum,

    I buy whore pussy all the time, FYI. I am just a bid sadistic and sociopathic.

    Like


  319. Prostitute

    Like


  320. Consider this: If what I was saying was demonstrably false, why would anyone respond to me?

    The demonstrably false assertions are the ones people respond to most because they are the easiest to pick apart.

    DA, Sofia and Horseman are “uncle toms”

    I’d venture to guess that DA finds you demented and Sofia + Horseman consider you an embarassment.

    I buy whore pussy all the time, FYI.

    Do you negotiate the whores’ hiding their revulsion at your touch, or is it built in to the fee structure?

    I am just a bid sadistic and sociopathic.

    I don’t believe you. I think you are just some dime-a-dozen loser who thinks that calling out his imaginary antisocial qualities makes him sound dangerous and cool.

    Like


  321. prossy,

    I have always found my interaction with whores to be my most honest interaction with women.

    Like


  322. My point is- whites are no better or worser than others. The problem is that whites think they are better, when every objective measure suggest that they are not!

    It’s hard to quantify better, but I’d make the simple argument that I’d rather live in a white country. Even the crummy white countries are better than India. Hell, even the rich black countries give India a run for it’s money…

    DA, Sofia and Horseman are “uncle toms” + I do not require anybody to support my views.

    Put it this way, in America, I’m relatively safe, have decent opportunities to develop and make the best use of my skills and ability. Even the racists and race realists that I fear have some restrictions on their ability to hurt me. None of that is true in the Indian state.

    Like


  323. PA,

    You are just a wannabe albanian white.. many turks in your woodpile?

    You see, I do not care about the opinion of others. I do things only if they benefit me..

    If you care about what a woman thinks about you.. never mind.

    Like


  324. Albanian, Turk… what?

    I do things only if they benefit me..

    As opposed to all the Mother Theresas on this board who work altruistically for others.

    Like


  325. David Alexander,

    You seem to like slavery.. good for you. If you want to call your subservient existence ‘living’.. sure. Whatever makes you happy.

    Like


  326. PA,

    There are only a few E.european countries near italy.

    Like


  327. “What many foreigners (and quite a few Americans) don’t grasp is that whichever party is in the White House, about 80% of the things remain the same.” – The 5th Horseman.

    Gee, could that be because most people are centre-left and centre-right? The wacky far-left and wack far-right are thankfully a piss-ant minority of the population whose votes get washed out by the far more sensible majority.

    “We have a Constitutional Federal Republic which elects some representatives through a democratic process.” – DT

    No kidding! That’s how most Western nations work! Besides a ‘republic’ is a merely a nation that isn’t ruled by a monarchy, that’s all. Then again, what did the U.S. ‘Founding Father want? They set up a system that favoured the well-to-do landowning white middle-aged men who owned slaves. The early voting system just happened to be restricted to those well-to-do landowning white middle-aged men who owned slaves, what a coinkidink! And I supposed when those men died their wealth was transferred to their sons. The ‘Founding Father’ founded a free society? It sounds more as though they founded an early traditional feudal society than anything else.

    Like


  328. And now Italy? never mind. By the way, Turkey is nowhere near Italy. EE countries near Italy are Croatia, Bosnia, and Montenegro. Plus Abania & Greece. But whatever.

    Lucifer, I’ll let you in on something. I have a knack for helping young fellas down in the dumps get their shit together. Done it a time or two. You have all the signs I recognize. Hope it works out for ya.

    Like


  329. Gil

    The Founding Fathers were quite aware that most previous attempts at anything resembling representative democracy had quickly turned into chaos and tyranny. They wanted to avoid that and they succeeded.
    South America had one “revolution” after another and they all turned to shit. They ended up as one-man-rule after the chaotic phase.
    All during the first half of the 19th century EVERYBODY in Europe was lecturing the USA about how we were too radically democratic and needed to be more like the traditionalists/ monarchies they enjoyed.

    Like


  330. *My ancestors were in that small group of enslaved that won their freedom by fighting back…

    If those are your ancestors, why in the name of God do you walk around calling yourself a subhuman male unworthy of female attention?

    Damn DA…MAN UP. Would your ancestors act the way you do, or indulge in the same self defeating thoughts?

    Like


  331. You seem to like slavery.. good for you. If you want to call your subservient existence ‘living’.. sure. Whatever makes you happy.

    Slavery is never right, regardless of condition, and David Alexander is no slave whether to man or woman, black or white. I kneel before no one except for God.

    Like


  332. DA intoned “I kneel before no one except for God”

    And me when I have my whip. 😉

    Like


  333. Even the crummy white countries are better than India. Hell, even the rich black countries give India a run for it’s money…

    Lucifer is Sri Lankan..

    You might piss off a lot of people who would otherwise agree with you, by getting such important details wrong..

    Like


  334. Gil – “We have a Constitutional Federal Republic which elects some representatives through a democratic process.” – DT

    No kidding! That’s how most Western nations work!

    Most western nations are closer to a pure democracy and lack the safeguards our founders put in place to preserve our liberty.

    Besides a ‘republic’ is a merely a nation that isn’t ruled by a monarchy, that’s all.

    That does not sufficiently describe what we have (or were supposed to have).

    Then again, what did the U.S. ‘Founding Father want? They set up a system that favoured the well-to-do landowning white middle-aged men who owned slaves.

    I just love how you attempt to belittle the system without actually addressing its merits as a political system. Yeah, we should just ignore everything about the American Constitution because it was written by “evil slave owning white males.”

    The ‘Founding Father’ founded a free society? It sounds more as though they founded an early traditional feudal society than anything else.

    It would only sound that way to an idiot.

    BTW, it might surprise you to know the founders struggled with the concept of slavery and some wanted to see it eradicated from the beginning. Even those who had slaves did not view it as a good thing or think it was healthy for the future of the nation.

    Most people across most of human history have been just fine with slavery. It was “evil white Christian males” who questioned the age old practice, and finally saw to its eradication from the nations they controlled. Even today one could say that abolition is a uniquely western concept. The world actually has more slaves today than it did when America was founded. Slavery still exists in Africa, Asia, and the middle east, and the global population has exploded. Which means even lower percentages of “under the tale” slavery results in more slaves than existed legally 200 years ago.

    The nations which are relatively free of slavery are all under the direct, heavy influence of western ideals put forth by those evil white males you would love to hate.

    Like


  335. “under the tale” should be “under the table”

    Like


  336. Lucifer I believe you are unlikely sociopathic. You feel warmth from and for your whores, if you were truly a sociopath you wouldn’t be able to feel it.

    Like


  337. aoefe – “And me when I have my whip.”

    DA’s right hand is going to be hurting tonight after that comment.

    Like


  338. And me when I have my whip.

    My dear, when you bring out the whip, you repay me in other, more sensual ways for my loyalties.

    Lucifer is Sri Lankan..

    So he’s from the unstable island and not rich island off the coast of India…

    Like


  339. clarice:

    Strangely, for the UR-initiate, Protestant-infused American strains of leftism were quite a bit less radical than those circulating in Central and Eastern Europe and among Jews.

    Are you kidding? Just look at Edward Bellamy’s “Looking Backward” and the works of other contemporary Protestant Anglo-socialists. Without any exaggeration, the utopian schemes of the more radical currents of late 19th century Anglo-socialism were somewhere at the Mao/Pol Pot level. I challenge you to find anything in Marxism that’s more radical than what these people preached.

    And that’s the main point I’m concerned with here — “leftism = Calvinism” is utter fucking rubbish.

    And yet read what Kevin MacDonald himself has to say about the Puritan legacy that’s blatantly visible in the modern PC left in the book review I mentioned above. His thesis is that various Jewish intellectual influences should be blamed for this modern degeneration of Protestantism, but even if we concede all that (and I don’t), it’s still a far cry from the CofC thesis that a healthy and vigorous Anglo culture was subverted by Jews. Not to even mention the extreme implausibility of MacDonald’s claims that the indigenous leftist degenerations of Protestantism completely died out by the end of 19th century, and that all subsequent problems are due to Jewish subversion. Just look at the Social Gospel, Fabians, and other similar purely WASP phenomena that were flourishing throughout the Anglosphere at the time. It seems blatantly clear to me that what MacDonald calls the “indigenous culture of critique” has had a continuous tradition to the present day.

    Like


  340. If those are your ancestors, why in the name of God do you walk around calling yourself a subhuman male unworthy of female attention?

    That’s because I am one. There are far better men than me out there.

    Damn DA…MAN UP. Would your ancestors act the way you do, or indulge in the same self defeating thoughts?

    I suspect they wouldn’t but I may simply be pathetic excuse for genetic spawn.

    Like


  341. DT saw the future: “DA’s right hand is going to be hurting tonight after that comment.”

    If I let him use it.

    Like


  342. This tread might have stayed anchored on the subject of Amish Love if we had been provided with more visual images suggesting it. Like, seeing them in their traditional female coverings except made entirely of SaranWrap. Or maybe coarse fish-net with lots of nipple-sized holes.
    They could keep their silly hats.

    Like


  343. If I let him use it.

    Where my dear, where?

    Like


  344. clarice:

    Jews happen to be probably the single best organized and ethnocentric minority in the West, but to a lesser degree the same dynamic applies among other ethnicities.

    Moldbug is notorious for denying any co-ordinated Jewish activity in the United States of any kind. He is on record as saying the “Palestinian Lobby” has much greater cultural and political weight than AIPAC and that the Jews in the United States who actually have politcal power don’t think of themselves, or act, as Jews. All of this on the fact that his father was in the State Department.

    Now you’re exaggerating and misrepresenting his positions, but anyway: I have no connection to the State Department at all, yet it’s blatantly clear to me that Palestinians, whether directly or indirectly through their ideological fans within the reigning PC left, do have a much greater influence on the U.S. policy in the Middle East than Israel. Just look at the concrete situation in the ground. The Israelis could easily resolve all their problems with brute military force, by simply being violent and ruthless enough. Why don’t they do it then? What do they have to fear? The answer is obvious: they fear the response of the “international community” (i.e. State Department), and it’s also politically impossible thanks to their own domestic left.

    Now, if you want to see an example of an ethnic group that really managed to get full U.S. backing in a war, look at Croatia. (I’m Croatian myself, by the way.) Do you know how the 1990s war in Croatia ended? The Croatian army simply wiped out the Serbian rebels with overwhelming military force, annihilated their self-proclaimed state, and ethnically cleansed most Serbs from these areas, who fled en masse to Serbia. “They made a desert, and called it peace.” The U.S. not only helped equip and train the Croatian army and gave the diplomatic green light for the operation, but also vetoed any attempts at diplomatic threats and punishments against Croatia in the Security Council after the operation was done.

    So, why can’t Israel do the same? They certainly have the military capability to do it. Obviously, Croatians have turned out to be far more capable of manipulating both the Pentagon and the State Department to work in their favor than Israelis, making AIPAC look like complete amateurs in comparison. And Croatians are European Catholic Slavs, so you can’t possibly explain this by any PC-motivated Third-World-liberation-struggle sensibilities. You should view the supposed power of the Israeli lobby from this perspective. Yes, they’re certainly trying hard to avoid the fate of Rhodesia for Israel, but by any objective measure, they aren’t managing to steer the U.S. policy anywhere close to full support for Israel — whereas Croatians did.

    And guess what — you won’t find almost any self-hating Croatians who supported the enemy side in the war, but you’ll find plenty of self-hating Jews, both in the West and in Israel, who actively advocate policies that would result in the annihilation of Israel if implemented. Just look at the likes of Noam Chomsky, Ilan Pappe, Gerald Kaufman, and their equivalents in Israel, of which there are plenty. If you think that the Israeli PC left is any less suicidally crazy than the American, you’re very poorly informed. And it’s not even just the PC left — as another extreme example, just look at Orthodox groups such as Neturei Karta.

    If you believe that Kevin MacDonald is right and the contemporary left is a devious Jewish invention, ask yourself why this same ideological bloc is the number one threat to the very existence of Israel. I find it implausible that these supposed masters of ethnocentrically motivated intellectual subversion would shoot themselves in the foot so badly.

    Like


  345. clarice:

    Of course, they [Kevin MacDonald’s claims in “The Culture of Critique”] are “disconnected” and “disorganized” if you assume your conclusion: that Jews have been and are totally innocuous, haven’t and don’t pursue their own interests, often at the expense of their hosts. Then they’re just a bunch of unrelated facts of history that merely appear to be related to each other somehow, no matter how many facts there are and how much they resemble some sort of basic pattern.

    You don’t seem to understand my point. It certainly can’t be denied that huge numbers of secularized Jews have been prominent in the creation and promotion of all sorts of wacky leftist ideologies in the last century or so. MacDonald has documented numerous such instances very diligently. I myself have speculated that the high intellectual capabilities of secularized Jews, evidenced by their disproportionate achievements in sciences and other intellectual fields, combined with a residue of the Talmudic culture and their feelings of alienation in the Gentile world, have made them especially prone to inventing and supporting various inventive, elaborate, and all-encompassing philosophical systems that can look extremely plausible and seductive to many intellectuals, but ultimately turn out to be just vacuous sophistry when they’re scrutinized properly. Marx, Freud, or Ayn Rand would be good examples of this phenomenon. If you want to argue merely that this pattern exists, I have no particular quarrel with that.

    However, to go further than that and claim that Jewish intellectuals were the primary origin of modern leftism requires more evidence. To claim something like that, you must first present a coherent and complete view of the intellectual history of leftism and then explain how various Jewish authors and activists fit into it. Otherwise, you fall into the fallacy of drawing conclusions about the whole from focusing on some parts of it and ignoring the rest, which is basically what MacDonald does. And as soon as you try to present anything like a complete picture of this history, you’ll see that his CofC thesis doesn’t hold water at all.

    (There are many other points where MacDonald’s arguments are weak and fallacious, but this would be my most succinct objection to his theories.)

    Like


  346. Rum:

    Somehow I doubt there were many ‘democratic’ experiments in the late 1700s. Athenian Democracy was restricted to privileged men (surprise, surprise).

    DT:

    Yes I would be surprised to see any of the Founding Fathers who were against slavery. Thomas Jefferson didn’t practice what he preached. Besides many white Christians supported slavery for a long time and some them used the ‘Curse of Ham’ excuse. “There’s more slavery nowadays than when it was legal!” That’s dubious as the countries that probably have the slaves probably consider it legal or call it by a different name. Not to mention the definition of slavery is far more loose nowadays.

    Like


  347. Gil – Yes I would be surprised to see any of the Founding Fathers who were against slavery. Thomas Jefferson didn’t practice what he preached.

    He couldn’t easily do so for financial and legal reasons.

    Besides many white Christians supported slavery for a long time

    Which in no way changes the fact that it was white Christian males who first questioned slavery on a large scale, and then proceeded to eradicate it from nations under their influence. Of course not all of them were on board. But isn’t it interesting that just about every other combination of race, religion, and culture, for centuries on end, just treated slavery as normal. Yet some how the west, and white males in particular, get blamed for slavery rather than thanked for abolition.

    “There’s more slavery nowadays than when it was legal!” That’s dubious as the countries that probably have the slaves probably consider it legal or call it by a different name.

    So if you call it by a different name, it’s not slavery? I guess those evil white males who fought the Civil War should have just ordered the south to call slavery by a different name. Would have saved America over a half million dead.

    Not to mention the definition of slavery is far more loose nowadays.

    Is that how you manage the mental gymnastic of hating the founding fathers for slavery while ignoring the slavery that goes on in the world today? By pretending it means something different today? I wonder how long that belief would stand if you were kidnapped and forced into slavery.

    Like


  348. Possible Solution:

    Roissy should set up an alternate blog for social and political commentary where he states the vaguest of personal affinities or opinions and people extrapolate 500+ comment flame wars from it.

    The discussions here wouldn’t be so bad if people wouldn’t escalate them into personal battles; What makes it all oh-so-worse is that even after weeks, if not months, of furiously typing to wound their opponent some people actually EXPECT TO WIN social capital or their adversary’s recognition of intellectual or idealistic inferiority!

    This post will not change a thing, but maybe it will be sort of a calming panacea for wounded e-gos.

    And then — possibly — some folks will laugh at the whole affair as I’m sure many of the non-zealous posters find themselves doing.

    Like


  349. ruby

    here is another possible solution

    don’t read the comments section

    YOU are not the yardstick of what should be discussed in a forum the blog owner himself has repeatedly stated is a free-fire zone. your wants and desires and your tender little feelings are of no interest to anyone posting here.

    why don’t you suck it up and get into the fray instead

    i don’t understand why people complain. many of the topics don’t warrant much discussion–i mean really, amish romance novels? the first bunch of comments discuss the post, then other discussions crop up until he posts a new post. what exactly is the problem?

    Like


  350. Gil

    The history of England in the 17th century was one round of chaos followed by tyranny after another as monarchs, parliaments, and various other factions manuvered for ascendancy.
    European history has many examples of successful local peasant revolts against the aristocracy followed by chaos and dictatorship.
    I really do not get what your point is regarding the Founding Fathers in America and slavery. Every casual student of history already knows that driving out British control and establishing some kind of Continental unity required working within the realities of 18th century colonial life. The FFs could have insisted on immediate emancipation but would then that would have been the last thing they got to insist on because there would have never been an independent America much less a United States of America.
    The American Revolution was one of the most destructive and prolonged wars of its era although few think of it that way today. It was not easy to win.
    The American Experiment was seen by the whole rest of the world at the time as doomed to fail because of excessive participation by ordinary people and a lack of a monarch.
    So, I guess I do not get what your point really is.

    Like


  351. Maybe Roissy could implement some sort of ‘member register system’ for commenters to log on and roissy can keep banning those who aren’t worthwhile contributors in his eyes.

    Like


  352. on September 13, 2009 at 1:26 pm msexceptiontotherule

    Since this post sparked comments that went in two very different directions, I am going to have two separate comments to present. This is comment #1:
    “Proze:
    PA, I’m not baiting anyone, faggot. I’m a WN, and it annoys the fuck out of me to see anonymous bloggers who pretend to be hard-hitting and frank realists not even have the balls to speak up and instead talk around shit like little girls.”
    Last I checked, the primary topic that the author of the blog likes to address (of course it’s not the only one) is how to hook up with women for fun and/or relationships, depending on the persons particular interest at that time. While I may disagree with his choice in his pursuits and methods employed, he still has a right to both and the freedom to express these, or, in other words – speak up in the forum of his choosing, which happens to be through the anonymous blogging format that many people have also taken up so that they can express themselves and their views as well. What he may or may not be in the context of socio-ethnicity isn’t the focus of the message. You are, however, attempting to elicit a reaction with wording the way you do. Thus, you are baiting, or at least attempting to.
    “Cless Alvein
    Also, a universal healthcare plan is not charity. You pay for it in taxes. However, I’d prefer to pay into an efficient and well-run government system (and despite the Reaganoids’ reflexive assertions that government “can’t do anything right”, Medicare has the least overhead and highest consumer satisfaction of all US health plans) that will benefit society as a whole over the current scenario, in which we line the pockets of scumbag insurance executives who, born in a different time and place, would be tower guards in concentration camps.”
    Have you lost your mind? Medicare may have the least overhead, but the highest consumer satisfaction of all U.S. health plans? Who did you hear that from? The people who find out that they have to give Medicare the money owed by the estate of their deceased family member for health services that had been rendered despite exceeding the limit on how much is paid out? How about the people who lose their coverage because they no longer fit the requirements for eligibility yet do not have the option of private insurance through their employer and cannot pay the high premiums for a plan available to sole parties that are trying to get insured when they are not part of a group? Maybe you mean the people who are surprised to discover that they cannot receive certain procedures nor a wide range of other health care services because they’re too expensive and have been carved out by medicare.
    “DT
    Most people across most of human history have been just fine with slavery. It was “evil white Christian males” who questioned the age old practice, and finally saw to its eradication from the nations they controlled. Even today one could say that abolition is a uniquely western concept. The world actually has more slaves today than it did when America was founded. Slavery still exists in Africa, Asia, and the middle east, and the global population has exploded. Which means even lower percentages of “under the table” slavery results in more slaves than existed legally 200 years ago.”
    According to United States State Department data, an “estimated 600,000 to 820,000 men, women, and children [are] trafficked across international borders each year, approximately 70 percent are women and girls and up to 50 percent are minors. The data also illustrates that the majority of transnational victims are trafficked into commercial sexual exploitation.” However, they go on to say that “the alarming enslavement of people for purposes of labor exploitation, often in their own countries, is a form of human trafficking that can be hard to track from afar.” Thus the figures for persons trafficked for labor exploitation are likely to be greatly underestimated. In Asia, Japan is the major destination country for trafficked women, especially from the Philippines and Thailand. The US State Department has rated Japan as either a ‘Tier 2’ or a ‘Tier 2 Watchlist’ country every year since 2001 in its annual Trafficking in Persons reports. Both these ratings implied that Japan was (to a greater or lesser extent) not fully compliant with minimum standards for the elimination of human trafficking trade. There are currently an estimated 300,000 women and children involved in the sex trade throughout Southeast Asia. It is common that Thai women are lured to Japan and sold to Yakuza-controlled brothels where they are forced to work off their price. By the late 1990s, UNICEF estimated that there are 60,000 child prostitutes in the Philippines, describing Angeles City brothels as “notorious” for offering sex with children. UNICEF estimates many of the 200 brothels in the notorious Angeles City offer children for sex.
    Many of the Iraqi women fleeing the Iraq War are turning to prostitution, while others are trafficked abroad, to countries like Syria, Jordan, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates and Turkey. In Syria alone an estimated 50,000 Iraqi refugee girls and women, many of them widows, had been forced into prostitution as of 2007. Cheap Iraqi prostitutes have helped to make Syria a popular destination for sex tourists. The clients come from wealthier countries in the Middle East. High prices are offered for virgins.
    As many as 200,000 Nepali girls, many under 14, have been sold into the sex slavery in India. Nepalese women and girls, especially virgins, are favored in India because of their light skin.
    An estimated 14,000 people are trafficked into the United States each year, although again because trafficking is illegal, accurate statistics are difficult. According to the Massachusetts based Trafficking Victims Outreach and Services Network (project of the nonprofit Mata Hari: Eye of the Day) in Massachusetts alone, there were 55 documented cases of human trafficking in 2005 and the first half of 2006 in Massachusetts. In 2004, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) estimated that 600-800 persons are trafficked into Canada annually and that additional 1,500-2,200 persons are trafficked through Canada into the United States. In Canada, foreign trafficking for prostitution is estimated to be worth $400 million annually. According to the National Human Rights Center in Berkeley, California, there are currently about 10,000 forced laborers in the U.S., around one-third of whom are domestic servants and some portion of whom are children. The Associated Press reports, based on interviews in California and in Egypt, that trafficking of children for domestic labor in the U.S. is an extension of an illegal but common practice in Africa. Families in remote villages send their daughters to work in cities for extra money and the opportunity to escape a dead-end life. Some girls work for free on the understanding that they will at least be better fed in the home of their employer. This custom has led to the spread of trafficking, as well-to-do Africans accustomed to employing children immigrate to the U.S. Research conducted by University of California at Berkeley on behalf of the anti-trafficking organization Free the Slaves found that about 46% of people in slavery in the United States are forced into prostitution. Domestic servitude claims 27%, agriculture 10%, and other occupations 17%.
    In the last year (2007):
    Thai men were trafficked to the United States for labor exploitation and debt bondage
    Russian students were trafficked to the United States for forced labor, selling ice cream
    Earlier in September 1997, Canadian Combined Forces Special Enforcement Unit (CFSEU) made raids on brothels in Toronto and Vancouver. Tipped off by U.S. INS, they discovered that Asian women were being sold into the sex industry in these cities, as well as in the United States. The women were usually trafficked into Canada with false passports and visitors’ visas for which the women had to pay heavily (Hawaleshka, 1997:24). On the same day in September that raids were conducted in the Canadian cities, a woman suspected of running a San Jose brothel linked to the ring in Canada was arrested on charges of pimping and pandering. Five other women from Malaysia and Thailand found in the house were also arrested, two charged with violating the terms of their visitors’ visas and one deported for failing to appear at an earlier immigration hearing (Pimentel & Wallace, 1997). At the same time, U.S. police raided a home in Midway City in Orange County, California, arresting six people, among them one whom police described as a “middle-level organized crime leader.” The ring covertly ferried Asian women into the Los Angeles area, and operated as many as six houses of prostitution. Most of the trafficked women were in their late teens or early 20s and were shuttled between cities, states and countries (Boucher and Carney, 1997).
    United States
    In July 1999, 15 Americans were arrested on charges of running a prostitution ring out of
    Minneapolis, Minnesota. The FBI released a 44-count indictment charging many members of the
    Evans family with forcing teenage girls into prostitution, maintaining control over them with repeated
    rapes, beatings and death threats. According to the FBI, the ring has been operating for 17 years,
    getting progressively larger, with operations in 24 states and two Canadian provinces (Rosario, 1999,
    1A).
    Earlier in 1998, Troy Footman, an American, was convicted of 18 charges related to the running
    of an interstate trafficking operation that sexually exploited 25 girls. Preying on teenage runaways in
    the United States, the Lowell Massachusetts pimp and trafficker transported and prostituted the girls
    from Boston, New Jersey and Delaware all along the Eastern seaboard (U.S. Department of Justice
    Press Release, 1998).
    Not only has the global population exploded, but it’s been moved from the nations of origin for many different groups of people and brought within the borders of the United States. I’m not sure whether or not there’s any proof of slavery abolishment in the areas under the control of the evil rich white man, even if the practices outside of the U.S. are considered worse than inside the U.S. Since it’s an argument of semantics whether slavery shares the same definition as human trafficking because the two have a majority of the same purposes for existing, we can conclude that we don’t need any rich white men, evil or otherwise, to have slave trade continue.

    Like


  353. on September 13, 2009 at 1:27 pm msexceptiontotherule

    And, as promised, the 2nd comment edition…
    “Roissy (parts of actual post)
    The Amish will be the salvation of America, if there is to be one. May they continue pumping out kids at quadruple the rate of the SWPLs, post-integrity equalists, and warlord-wannabes who currently buttfuck themselves on the levers of power…
    What exactly are post-integrity equalists and warlord-wannabes? World dictators and feminists? It’s not like either of the latter will be multiplying copiously, since they don’t live in a manner that leaves much time for activities not related to excessive force-feeding their beliefs to others.
    Still, even with head to toe clothing covering all but their faces and hands, I was able to make fairly accurate assessments of the Amish women’s looks from many yards away. The power of male discernment of female beauty is a finely tuned instrument, indeed. The hyperjealous harem guarding Muslims know this, which is why they invented the burqa…
    Milkmaids (or Amish, Mormons, the chaste and morally decent young female protestant…et cetera) probably are more likely to submit to the dominance of a man, which would improve their looks in the eyes of a man wishing to dominate in his relations with females. Plus, they will usually come pre-programmed to want a life having and raising children instead of working outside of the home. Which could also raise their level of attractiveness to men looking for that in a female.
    Amish mothers hit the wall hard, unfortunately. No MILFs in that community. It’s 30 and stick a fork in them, no exceptions. Living off the land must age a person faster…”
    Perhaps it’s caused by the stress from all of the children they keep having well into the end of their 30s because they don’t use hormonal contraceptives and Zachariah doesn’t believe in condoms or surgical procedures men can have if they don’t want to have any more children. They also have to worry about complications during childbirth, whether the conditions in their environments will allow for providing the family its needs over the next year and so forth, and the worry that they have as to whether there should be changes to their daily practices which were formed as a secondary part of their religious ideals to allow more economic gains to offset their costs in ways that integrate the useful portions from the world outside the Amish enclave.
    “Roissy:
    no that’s not it. if anything, women are “taught” to wallow in their sexuality. The real reason women have what looks to men like fucked up fantasies is because… women’s fantasies are fucked up!”
    You should at least consider briefly (before inevitably discarding, which I assume will be done in the name of keeping with the status quo overall) including a qualifying statement that does entertain the possibility of women without fucked up fantasies existing. I swear, we do, it’s just that we don’t discuss our fantasies with everyone that comes along.
    “Racer X
    A recent girlfriend told me about a book that she said every girl has read in secret but would rarely admit to. I had never heard of this book but according to her it was an underground thing among girls and young women: Flowers in the Attic. The controversy with the book deals with incest between a brother and sister. Now I have not done any research in this area, but this one girlfriend admitted to having some incestuous fantasies about an imaginary brother, and if it is true that this book is well read among women, although secretly, it is just another example of the hidden yet potent nature of unbridled female sexuality. The phenomena of this book, if true, reveals a lot about some of the hidden and still ineffable aspects of female sexuality. “
    There’s no underground secret readings of “Flowers in the Attic” now or ever, but I should probably leave it open for some rare cultish thing…Nah, that’s completely ridiculous. The controversy was a much more complex matter which stemmed from the plot involving a mother who found herself without any way to support the four children she had with her husband; the husband was not approved of by her father, and she was disowned for running away to marry him. Following his death, she returned to her father’s home with her 4 children, and went along with her mother’s suggestion to not tell the family patriarch that there were any children at all. The mother would go up to the rooms the children were kept locked in to visit many times a day at first, but as time went on, she did that less and less until it was not at all. At the same time this was happening, the children were being mostly starved, and when they were fed the food had been laced with poison intended to kill them over time, and of course they were locked in one room with two beds, which was exchanged for the attic after the youngest brother had died from the poison but the others thought it was just an illness. The incest was not some elaborately described scene, only a brief moment that the grandmother had walked in and seen, which only fueled her obsession with getting rid of the “problems” her daughter had brought into the house, especially because she wanted to have it done before the marriage that had been arranged by the family patriarch for his daughter, whom he believed had left her first husband and returned alone to beg his forgiveness and receive his permission to come back to join the family. Perhaps the girlfriend you mentioned was making some sort of effort to make her own interest in incestual relations seem like they weren’t terribly unusual, or even a ‘norm’ for a particular (but of course sizeable) group. The book is more about the controversy from a mother who would allow her children to be locked away and deny their existence whilst others who would say it was because they loved her that they poisoned her children and told her to keep their existence a secret.

    Like


  354. @ Zunder: “Anyway, eat healthy, lift weights, keep fit – and you should sidestep use of the health system in whatever country you happen to live.”

    Wish it were always that simple…

    Like


  355. M….rule

    The way you describe the book, I can see why it would be popular with modern women. The plot rubs so hard on their victimhood clit, they would have almost uncontrollable orgasms of self pity.
    oooh, look how mean the Patriarch is, she how the innocence woman suffers…
    I can see it now. They read and re-read the best parts of this until get completely release of all that girlish tension.

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  356. I hate romance novels. With a passion. Give me Steven King any day over that drivel.

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  357. Note how Zunder can;t respond to factual allegations or questiosn, makes shit up, and runs away from direct argument, in addition to moving the goal posts?

    lol sheepfucker.

    Like


  358. The quality of comments here is dropping. The ratio of good commenters to trolls is worsening.

    But in the interest of free speech, the only commenter who really crosses the line, and single-handedly does enough to destroy the quality of the whole forum, is Lucifer. There is only one commenter here who really does deserve to be banned, and that is Lucifer.

    I bet if Roissy put up a poll of ‘ban’ vs. ‘keep’ Lucifer, the vote will be overwhelmingly to ban.

    Like


  359. on September 13, 2009 at 3:30 pm 54 Year Old virgin

    Someone way back mentioned delaying sex til marriage;it reminds me of an artcile about Tim Tebow I read the other day. Tim is not only a top notch QB (FSU me’thinks??I forget)tough and smart but also a committed Christian. His big thing,after shredding his muscles in the gym,and winning ball games,is to go to the Phillipines and bring dark-skinned people to Jesus. This heismann Trophy top notch national hero is…a virgin,he admits-proudly. While every ghetto rat run of the mill DB hanging on by a thread,taking Phys Ed,with an ACT of 12,is running wild nailing any and every piece of pussy he can get his shlong into,before the inevitable injury,arrest,shooting or (heh heh heh)graduation ends his football career and he is thrown back into da hood broke and every bit as stupid as he was when he left….this IDIOT is a freakin Virgin!! NO PUSSY!! It made me loathe the asshole. I hope his team flops and he is picked in the 3rd round!! Idiot!

    Like


  360. on September 13, 2009 at 3:45 pm SAW: South Asian Woman

    I think South Asians more than Amish or Mormons will be capable of saving this country. That is, if we ourselves do not fall prey to the “culture” here.

    We tend to be socially conservative, hard-working, often professional and somewhat religious WITHOUT the religious bigotry that you find with Christian groups like Mormons, and without the aloof eliteness/separatism of the Amish.

    We assimilate well into the American work world and maintain a personal privacy regarding our religious practices and cultural traditions.

    While we do marry our own more often than not, and that sometimes through an arranged marriage process similar to the kind found “back home”, we are willing to make friends and socialize with people of non-South-Asian decent here in the USA.

    Overall, we are perfect. LOL.

    Like


  361. “The early voting system just happened to be restricted to those well-to-do landowning white middle-aged men who owned slaves, what a coinkidink!”

    Well, the “slave” part aside, having skin in the game certainly seems to be an important component for a free, Constitutional democracy to survive. Else the strong possibility for it to transform into a de facto democratic tyranny, where the elites “redefine” what the Constitution means on behalf of their majoritarian constituency.

    See Chavez, Hugo for details.

    What happens when 51% receives net benefits from the treasury at the expense of the 49%?

    Like


  362. lurker: I’ve had a chance to deal with these Aussie/Kiwi leftists before. They’re a particularly annoying bunch of punks, perhaps because they’re not even US citizens, and thus their presumptiousness in lecturing to Americans is so obnoxious.

    Like


  363. “Yes I would be surprised to see any of the Founding Fathers who were against slavery. ”

    Umm, Ben Franklin?

    Like


  364. Founding Fathers who were against slavery.

    Depends on what you mean by “against slavery.” Many at the time were against the importation of new slaves from Africa or other colonies, likely on future emographic concerns or due to regional jealousies (N vs S). If I recall correctly, it was in 1803 that all new importation of Africans was ended.

    Now, if by “against slavery” you mean a mass-emancipation of the slaves already in the Colonies, then extremely few were for it. At the time an unconditional (ie, non-repatriaton) emancipation option was the province of radicals, usually some kind of a fanatical Christian offshoot.

    Like


  365. I have hung around with Aussies and Kiwis enough to have learned that despite some superficial resemblances, they are quite different underneath.
    Aussies like to get drunk and fight. Kiwis are more wonkish.
    They are all good people, imho, but the thing they do not get about Americans comes from the different patterns of immigration to these places in the earlier centuries.
    It is just a fact that America took in a huge number of hard-headed, super-ambitious, natural born fanatics looking to create a new City on a Hill.
    Those sort of people did not go to the middle of the Pacific Ocean to raise sheep.
    Out of politeness, I will not mention why people went to Oz.

    Like


  366. Lurker,

    Apparently, Zunder has been making attempts at responding but his replies have been held up in moderation.

    Also:

    “I didn’t think spouting a bunch of uniformed socialistic nonsense based on propaganda, refusing to admit to facts that clearly contradict me, and whining like a bitch would lead to a spanking by lurker.”

    …doesn’t sound like a bad idea. I love the welfare state.

    Like


  367. “that Jews have been and are totally innocuous, haven’t and don’t pursue their own interests, often at the expense of their hosts.”

    What are “my interests” exactly?

    What do you make of the fact that Soviet bloc Jews, e.g. particularly those old enough to have experienced that life are overwhelmingly Republican/conservative and despise many of their American-born brethren’s political leanings?

    Personally I don’t see any innate, monolithic leftism in Jewish culture. The ultra-orthodox sects are social conservatives, and vote accordingly. True, reform Judaism on a bad day looks like the temple of liberalism, but to the best of my knowledge they do not have majority numbers. Sure, a majority are traditional, vote-by-rote Democrat voters, but hardly hardcore leftists bent on deconstructing the culture.

    Like


  368. Sofia:
    “Apparently, Zunder has been making attempts at responding but his replies have been held up in moderation.”
    —proof?

    “…doesn’t sound like a bad idea.”
    —congratulations. You earned my attention.

    Like


  369. The fact is that Puritan socialist movements were never politically mainstream. While a big bunch of Jews were Marxist from the first day.

    Europe’s socialist movement starts with Marx. Thanks from a mass movement of Jews. This is historical fact.

    Like


  370. If any of you guys want to understand the real, deep meaning of America, check out the youtube clip of Susan Boyle singing “Wild Horses” by the Rolling Stones.
    It is to die for. It is for the Ages.
    Susan Boyle was severely oxygen deprived at birth.
    There it is: America was founded by brain-damaged freaks who somehow held onto an irrational belief in their worth as human beings.

    Like


  371. Anon,

    Whites as a group are screwed anyway, whether I say so or not.

    Having said that, the major defect in white pysche can be summed up as – we can get away with it. My take- try it..

    Like


  372. moderation=sheep loving?

    Like


  373. Rum, her Wild Horses is sublime. But I don’t get the America metaphor.

    Like


  374. spandrell:

    Europe’s socialist movement starts with Marx.

    Try reading a history book some time.

    Like


  375. @ Rum:

    screw politeness. Tell us why people came to Oz?

    Like


  376. Whites as a group are screwed, whether I say so or not.

    Having said that, the major defect in white pysche can be summed up as – we can get away with it. My take- try it..

    Like


  377. on September 13, 2009 at 8:16 pm zunderdownunder

    Author : lurker (IP: 67.243.8.54 , cpe-67-243-8-54.nyc.res.rr.com)
    E-mail : [email protected]

    Like


  378. In Response to Dana:

    I simply have nothing to gain by arguing my political and social views here.

    Initially I found the extremist views espoused by a significant amount of the posters here to be distasteful — and I thought it may have been counterproductive to any greater goal stated by those same posters — but all parties involved in the various conflicts of e-go here expressed an apathy or hostility towards any idea of moderation; Whether internal or external.

    So I easily relented.

    I woke up this morning, though, hung over while checking my blog roll. I skimmed through the sprawling comments of this post and noticed the time stamps: Reasonably intelligent people had spent a significant portion of their Saturday Nights futilely arguing their perspectives over the internet.

    To your credit, there is nothing objectively WRONG with the long-standing battles here, and I appreciate the civility in your response; But, as you may sometimes feel the compulsion to point out a perceived fallacy in an opponent’s argument, I felt the compulsion to point out the perceived absurdity of what I was reading.

    To Roosh:

    I received my copy of “Bang” in the mail a few days ago.

    I’ve been reading it whenever I have a few spare moments.

    I haven’t gotten far — But I’ll not hesitate to say that what I’ve read is superior to 90% of the PUA materials I’ve studied exhaustively.

    Entertaining, concise, accurate and informative; I’ve gotta give a ‘Much Obliged’ to you for writing “Bang”.

    To Houellebecq Fans:

    I finished reading “The Possibility of an Island” today.

    This novel felt… different. As if there was somewhat of an acceptable resolution.

    Houellebecq’s novels usually strike me as being nihilistically depressing; ‘The Possibility…’ seemed to be more existentially honest.

    The message I interpreted from it all: Everything wrong with humanity lies within the human condition itself.

    Until we truly divorce ourselves and transcend THAT which makes us human, NOTHING will deliver us from the state of constant suffering inherent to human existence.

    It is almost as if Houellebecq tacitly supports the “Transhumanist Movement” (ala Google/Nick Bostrom/Raymond Kurzweil), but warns against gradual modification of humanity.

    As if Zarathustra teasing and beckoning man across the Abyss, Houellebecq demands a transformation in full.

    Anything short of that will be a derailment of the potential for true happiness… or the guarantee of our doom.

    Like


  379. on September 13, 2009 at 8:54 pm msexceptiontotherule

    Rum:

    (sigh)…That was so not the point. Maybe I should just have limited my response to “I hated that book, it was stupid and the stuff it involves is just totally impossible to see happen in real life. Give me something with real substance.”

    Is that better?

    Like


  380. I see where Houellebecq is going with transhumanism as humanity’s only path to happiness. I also think he is wrong. I’m partial to T.S. Eliot’s definition of culture as “that, which makes life worth living.” Culture, in this case as I’m extrapolating from Eliot, is one’s identification with a larger collective, with its ethnic ways and in terms of seeing oneself as that which links one’s ancestors with one’s descendants.

    I’m a Traditionalist in that regard. Roissy also hit upon this when he speculated that the Amish are probably happier then modern men.

    The flaw with Houellebec’s and hedonists’ recipe for happiness is that they define the human as an individual. So they’re beggining with a false premise. We aren’t. We’re neither solitary creatures like cats or octopi (in which case, satiation of appetites might suffice in ensuring happiness), not are we hive creatures like ants, for whom there is no individuals. We’re something in-between.

    Seeking Alpha recently said somethign along these lines too, that happiness (recalling from memory) is obtained through a fulfillment of one’s responsibility.

    Like


  381. I love your title, “Amish Love,” because that was my favorite David Bowie song from the 1980s. Someone should really record a cover version.

    Like


  382. “Consider this: If what I was saying was demonstrably false, why would anyone respond to me?”

    Because you’re a skillful troll who can make his trolling last longer than the patience of the people proving you wrong.

    Like


  383. on September 13, 2009 at 10:18 pm unlearning genius

    hillarious!

    @lucifer

    I remember seeing your posts a while ago and they seemed allright. But lately you have completely lost perspective and just rambling like a moron.

    The objective standard for measuring a gene-pool’s success is its mastery over the physical world and larger odds for its own and its progeny’s survival. By that measure the white race wins out over any other races mostly because of its technological strength. I agree that thiings aren’t so good or optimistic for the west as of this moment. But the west has a lead time of atleast a few decades and god knows china and india have their own load of problems. So what you may see in the future is some kind of levelling of the playing field perhaps, but nothing of the white race’s demise that you speak of.

    The clear threat to the free world is ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALISM. These folks are a threat to whites and asia alike and they also have a oil well in their backyard. I would much rather prefer a world where women wallow in their hypergamous freedom than to see them clad in burqas.

    Lucifer is clearly demonstrating emotional strain. Your attitude towards women is one of anger. People here say misogynistic things but I don’t think they actually mean it with all their heart. You on the other hand are very serious ..disturbingly serious about this. So you are a skinny book smart asian kid ..a nerd .. bottom of the mating hierarchy… it must suck .You come across as needing validation from white women by them sleeping with you? .. You are in reality admitting that they are superior to you. .. why else would you be in their part of the world ? ..

    Like


  384. I woke up this morning, though, hung over while checking my blog roll. I skimmed through the sprawling comments of this post and noticed the time stamps: Reasonably intelligent people had spent a significant portion of their Saturday Nights futilely arguing their perspectives over the internet.

    Dude, you found about Roissy’s blog through Overcoming Bias of all places, that along with that pathetic uber omega douche Eliezer Yudkowsky’s site Less Wrong is probably one of the biggest collections of the biggest autistic losers and social retards/misfits in North America. Tyler Cowen gets more pussy than all of you put together.

    Like


  385. Rum: Susan Boyle is from the U.K. not the U.S.A.

    Ms exception: I have the conspiracy fear that ‘wholesale’ slavery disappeared because it was was no longer financial viable as technology improved hence maybe the West was able to build an abolitionist movement beyond the novelty level. But what happens if slavery becomes financial viable again?

    P.S. Zunder – you forgot Lurker’s href=”http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/starcraft/images/0/0e/Lurker_SC1_Art1.jpg”photo.

    Like


  386. In Response to PA:

    Though I may speak of my interpretation of Houellebecq in a poetic and abstract manner, my statements were meant to be received as being practical [if vague; I apologize].

    As there are Transhumanists and Singularitarians under the big tent of ‘Extropianism’, so are there Existential Risk Managers.

    My particular field of paranoid obsession and eventually, full employment.

    From what I’ve researched and know, there are far too many existential risks to our country, society, civilization and really — the whole of humanity — to even consider a push back to 19th century level technology and life.

    I won’t bore [or scare] you with what we face over the next century. (I’ll just say: Malthus was an optimist.)

    Rather, I’ll just round the discussion together with this:

    Houellebecq seems to prescribe a harsh, but potentially effective, medicine for what has, does and will ail all of humanity.

    “It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.” – Jiddu Krishnamurti

    Since there is qualitatively and quantitatively more that threatens our way of life and existence, now more than ever, the only solution to preventing destruction of ourselves by natural or self-made means is to push beyond the threshold of our vulnerabilities and weaknesses.

    Whether they be within the foundation of our society, or the foundation of our selves.

    Like


  387. on September 13, 2009 at 11:12 pm unlearning genius

    @Ayer,

    Spot on man! EY of less wrong and the related site OB .. uber omega .. and the attitude on those mothers .. like they are saving the world or something … biggest douches ever!

    Like


  388. on September 13, 2009 at 11:25 pm unlearning genius

    @ Ayer,
    spot on the OB, LW crowd (and yes EY of less wrong is a big pretentious douche) ..

    @Ruby
    man you have taken the rationalist drivel way too seriously! These fuckers read too much sci-fi and try to construct a “futuristic” world albeit in their heads. Rationality is not the only answer to humanity’s problems .. if it were, then ever one of us would be a big nerd .. The world is far too complex to be understood literally .. we cannot do that .. the world is not sick or good or anything else .. it just is .. stop trying to see the world as you want it to .. this is the fault of all the philosophers who preach about sickness ..(including that shithead jiddu) .. just drink the hard truth that life has no higher purpose whatsoever .. The moment I realised this truth, i am at peace .. I have nowhere to go really .. i am already there … and so i breathe easy .. and laugh at douches like EY, jiddu, zen monks ….and the like

    Like


  389. Bonnet Love in Amish Love Country

    Gripping the plough in her tiny hands Hannah tugged gently. Encouraged by Samuel’s insistence that it was alright to pull harder she did. The plough miraculously began to move! She had no idea she had the power within her to make this happen. Samuel seemed as pleased as she was and his happiness fuelled her efforts. She realized it was harder than she would have imagined and she gained appreciation for how diligently men attended to their own equipment. She determined from this day forward he would know longer have to pull the plough alone.

    Like


  390. This Shunner reporter holds that Aoefe’s first novel Plunder Down Under will be an earthy success but advises she go to grammar school if her father will let her. i.e. He would know (no) longer have to pull the plough alone.

    Aoefe admitted to this reporter she writes with a mission and truly hopes men will no longer have to suffer blue b’s (bonnets) alone.

    Like


  391. unlearning genius,

    The concept of a “white race” exists only in the mind of some west european and north americans. The rest of your “race” do not care! Russia freely supplies the most current weapon technology to non-whites. As does france, germany and sweden. The technology for nukes, missiles, bioweapons, cyberattacks etc has spread far beyond the west, as has the tech and ability to make conventional weapons.

    The west is now living on it’s past, not its abilities or its future.

    You ability to provide for your progeny is irrelevant, as you do not have enough to make a difference. Whether others have problems is meaningless if you do not survive or are relegated to a third rate existence.

    You have no lead “of a few decades”. Look at your universities, research institutes, the very tech that you are writing this on.. all have very significant non-white input.

    It is now our civilization, not yours.

    PS- I do not require external validation, and that is far harder for you to understand. I simply don’t care.

    I have no interest in supporting any system or group of individuals if it does not profit me.. my support for your existence is contingent upon it benefiting me (which it is not). Read between the lines.

    Like


  392. Zunder the dunder:

    “Dana, Lurker, and Askjoe – you are the archetypical ignorant, thick, ugly american idiot that the rest of the world laughs at.”
    —Translation: stop using facts to whip my faggoty kiwi ass!

    “Luckily, I have been to your country, and realise your view, even amongst conservatives – is luckily of the minority.”
    —lol. talking with a bunch of hipsters in brooklyn is nto the way to figure out logic, little man.

    “Lurker, I’d snap your neck in one move you little faggot. Lucky this is all in cyberspace eh, you little fucking whimp.”
    —lmao. Interwebs fights! little pussy sheepfucker is mad at me!

    I’d break every bone in your body, pussy. Remember that.

    Like


  393. oh noes, Zunder posted my IP address and email! Whatevers wills I do’s!

    lol sheepfucking moron.

    Like


  394. “The message I interpreted from it all: Everything wrong with humanity lies within the human condition itself.

    Until we truly divorce ourselves and transcend THAT which makes us human, NOTHING will deliver us from the state of constant suffering inherent to human existence.”

    Yeah — I don’t know if transhumanism can make humans HAPPY — I’m skeptical; however it appears to be the only practical plan for humanity to SURVIVE. I certainly agree with your first sentence.

    It’s either that or civilizational deevolution and mass misery.

    No-one else out there besides the transhumanists such as Kurzweil is offering a compelling vision of how we can survive the mess that’s on the horizon. I’m sure some people here will go “Hah! Another Jew like Marx and Rand with his utopianism!”

    But one can dismiss the more optimistic philosophical aspects without doing the same for the hard, cold economic reality — we’re going to need technological advancements just to keep scarcity at bay.

    Like


  395. on September 14, 2009 at 2:30 am unlearning genius

    @lucifer,

    This is truly comic … you really gotta be kidding me right? ..
    All right I will humor you.

    “You ability to provide for your progeny is irrelevant, as you do not have enough to make a difference. Whether others have problems is meaningless if you do not survive or are relegated to a third rate existence”

    First of all i am not white and neither do i live in the west. I am indian by race and i live in singapore. Although, i have lived in the states and UK in the past for almost a decade and travel there occasionally.

    Struggle as much as you want but the facts are not in your favor. The wealth and power in today’s world follows a power law. At the top it is mostly white people. Followed by people in asia and the middle east. The living conditions of a lower class white person in the west is still far better than that of your average SE asian. Have you even been to india? Only the top echelon in india is experiencing an increase in the standard of living. In china only the big cities are modernized.

    ” You have no lead “of a few decades”. Look at your universities, research institutes, the very tech that you are writing this on.. all have very significant non-white input.
    It is now our civilization, not yours. ”

    All that is happening is that a larger fraction of non white people are entering the world economy. But this is still a small percentage of the total. A few men making the world’s billionaires list .. a lot of non white people in the workforce .. all these are signs of a healthy economy that is fast globalizing .. The wealth disparity in the west will increase tremendously and that might lead to social unrest .. but a total demise?

    But the most important question is .. why should we want the white race to disappear? A new race homeostasis is a far better outcome. Why are you hating on an entire race of people anyway. That is completely silly.

    Like


  396. Special report from our ‘No kidding’ team:

    Us women are more egocentric and narcissistic than we ever used to be, according to extensive research by two leading psychologists.

    More of us have huge expectations of ourselves, our lives and everyone in them. We think the universe resolves around us, with a deluded sense of our own fabulousness, and believe we are cleverer, more talented and more attractive than we actually are.

    http://tiny.cc/OGLSg

    Come for the delusions, stay for the beta boys at the end of the column!

    Like


  397. on September 14, 2009 at 3:28 am unlearning genius

    @Barely beta

    i must be really bored .. spending too much time on here …

    Us HUMANS are more egocentric and narcissistic than we ever used to be, according to extensive research by two leading psychologists (study conducted on a bunch of undergraduates, i am guessing .. academic psych is bullcrap anyways)

    More of us have huge expectations of ourselves, our lives and everyone in them. We think the universe resolves around us, with a deluded sense of our own fabulousness, and believe we are cleverer, more talented and more attractive than we actually are.

    All guys dream of being an alpha .. all women dream of being with the super alpha .. just the dance of teh genes .. no sex is really BETTER off than the other .. The truly free human will ride above all this .. are you truly free?

    Like


  398. unlearning genius,

    I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain details of my ideas, but here are a few pointers.

    PS- if you are an indian in singapore, I can understand where a lot of your self-hate and poor self-image come from.

    1] The west is fragile because it is dependent on too many systems (real and notional) functioning without interruption even though they are tightly coupled and without worthwhile redundancies.

    2] The success of the western economic model (pyramid scheme) was based on a demographic profile you used to have (for 600 years) but not longer have.

    3] The west cannot impose its will because it lacks the ability to do so (and take any serious damage). Others can because of their willingness to take attrition.

    4] I don’t think that you have ever studied biological systems in any detail. They are often very non-linear and have unpredictable (and irreversible) tipping points. We are on the non-linear part of the curve..

    5] Who is going to defend the west? The ones who used to are getting screwed, people like me don’t care, people like you don’t matter.

    Like


  399. 5] Who is going to defend the west? The ones who used to are getting screwed, people like me don’t care, people like you don’t matter.

    China’s “little emperors” are going to love hear this news, I’m sure.

    Like


  400. “” You have no lead “of a few decades”. Look at your universities, research institutes, the very tech that you are writing this on.. all have very significant non-white input.
    It is now our civilization, not yours. ””

    You have some kind of delusions of Pan-Asian solidarity? Good lord, that’s hysterical. Yes, the Indians, Chinese, Japanese and Koreans are one happy family just waiting to unite to stick it to paleface. God that’d be funny if it wasn’t tragic.

    Like


  401. JB,

    Why would I care about the future of a system that does not reward my demonstrated abilities (and pass me over for a person based on ethnicity)? You cannot motivate people (over an extended period of time) by anything other than a fair reward.

    If you break the social contract, don’t expect me to keep playing the game.

    Essentially, people like me (who could have made up for the west’s demographic deficit) do not participate in the system to keep it going. We know that the present system is never going to reward us fairly, so we just use it without regard to it’s eventual fate.

    Like


  402. JB,

    It is not about non-white solidarity. It never existed (just like white solidarity never existed).

    It comes down to this:

    Countries with white majorities are beholden to those with non-white populations (and their own non-white populations). However the new reality has not been accepted by white countries… too bad for them.

    Like


  403. on September 14, 2009 at 4:26 am unlearning genius

    @lucifer,

    Your brilliance has silenced me .. i stand in awe of your greatness ..

    Like


  404. on September 14, 2009 at 4:50 am unlearning genius

    @luicfer,

    America is the least xenophobic economy of all countries. White people are not the enemy, the real enemy to the free world is ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALISM and the growth of islam in the west.. we should all fight against that to ensure the survival of the free world.

    what is your gripe anyways? If you really are as talentedas you imagine yourself to be, go to a tax free country .. start your own enterprise .. we cannot change the past .. no matter how you look at it .. the west has been the dominant race in teh near history ..I agree things aren’t looking too bright for them .. so what? … the nice thing about the way the world is today is that you are not really tied down to one place .. just leave man .. go somewhere else ..

    as folks here would put it ..”whining is so o m e g a, dude! ” ..

    Like


  405. Vladimir,

    You don’t seem to actually read my comments. If you’re going to even bother attempting to debate, read my comments. Don’t waste my time and repeat arguments I’ve already addressed above.

    You’re not impressing anybody by aping Moldbug and citing old books to appear erudite. Like I already said above: “Incidentally, I don’t disagree that one can find in Puritanism elements of “leftism”. It is possible to find strains of “leftism” in practically any tradition.” You’ll find utopian schemes involving some form of socialized ownership all over the place throughout history, including in Adolph Hitler’s vision of postwar Germany. Utopian schemes involving forms of socialized ownership are not monolithic. You can’t separate the scheme or ideology from the actual goals, motives, of the people that actually formulate, support, promote, and implement them. Hitler’s utopian scheme involving some form of socialized ownership is quite different from, say, late 20th century multiculturalism, despite both being utopian, socialistic, and Leftist, in many ways.

    I’ve already said this before, but I’ll say it again. MacDonald’s goal is not necessarily to write a “coherent intellectual history of Leftism.” I quoted extensively above from the preface of CoC. Go and read it. There MacDonald explicitly states the object of his inquiry. It’s not simply “Leftism” or any field or movement that happens to involve Jews. There’s a reason MacDonald doesn’t study for example 20th century theoretical physics despite the involvement of many Jews like Einstein.

    I’m not “exaggerating and misrepresenting his positions” regarding Israel and Palestine. There are four propositions, all of them true: 1) Moldbug denies any coordinated Jewish activity in the US. 2) He did say that the “Palestinian Lobby” has greater cultural/political power than AIPAC. 3) Jews in the US with actual political power don’t think of themselves, or act, as Jews. 4) Moldbug’s father was in the State Department.

    This is probably one of Moldbug’s most retarded views of all, one that barely warrants a response. And it’s one that’s just clever enough to dazzle dorky fanboys into thinking they’ve come across some novel, deep insight. “Yeah! I knew all those crazy Nazi anti-Semites were – um – crazy! And wrong! The US doesn’t support or favor Israel – not at all. It supports the Palestinians. Completely. I mean, it’s so obvious now. If the US really supported Israel, it wouldn’t just give them what amounts to hundreds of billions of dollars over 5 decades. It would let them use that money to actually ethnically cleanse the Palestinians! Yeah, it’s so clear and obvious now!” But of course if you’re going to use such a naively simple standard of determining which side the US supports, you could just as easily object that if the US really did support the Palestinians over the Israelis, they would arm and help the Palestinians drive the Israelis to the sea and ethnically cleanse them out. What’s amusing about all of this is how quite a bit of Moldbug’s writing is devoted to arguing for and devising theories about how the US is an empire, albeit not an old fashioned one involving as much direct military intervention and governmental administration, but through more indirect means and channels. So he’s fine with arguing that the US maintains and supports a global empire without necessarily resorting to direct conquest, yet he refuses to believe that the US could conceivably support one group, faction, nation, people, etc., over another without necessarily tolerating the favored group’s conquest of the other.

    Like


  406. Why would I care about the future of a system that does not reward my demonstrated abilities (and pass me over for a person based on ethnicity)?

    so now I get you Lucifer

    white men perform better than you at your job and, as an south asian of the uglier ethnicity you can only compete through beta provider game.

    Like


  407. “clarice”,

    the new trend to absolve jews of any complicity in the marxist/socialist/psychoanalysis revolution in the US has been fascinating to discover.

    there seems to be a group of people who have analyzed the left up until after WW2 and decided AHA see–it was wasps, jews are innocent.

    unless jews are so culturally narcissistic that they WERE in fact only tangential to the “great disruption” and overinflated their own role in the visible left to the extent that their “enemies” the anti semites took them way too seriously, it is ludicrous to claim jews had a less than pivotal role in the destruction of the US political system and culture.

    here, for example is a proud JEWISH explication of the role of JEWISH women in the communist fronts of the labor movement:

    http://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/communism-in-united-states

    note, i said PROUD, i know jews were heavily involved in influencing the country to the left because they are so damned PROUD of it they never stop talking about it and celebrating it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_left

    i went to a jewish “socialist summer camp” of the type made fun of by woody allen in “annie hall”. my parents were heavily involved in the folk and protest movements of the 60s and my mother was involved in the civil rights movement, along with 100s of their friends and associates in the philadelphia folk song society alone. my grandmothers family were communists in poland before WW2, my great uncle was a communist, card carrying, my other great uncle was a memeber of the “jewish WORKMAN’S circle”–ie, a socialist. my paternal grandmother was a “social worker” in th ebest “progressive” tradition.

    this is just MY tiny little jewish family–so much leftism in three generations and we could all list prominent jewish names among the cultural left for days im sure.

    Like


  408. “you are the archetypical ignorant, thick, ugly american idiot that the rest of the world laughs at,” must be JAFA for “you make me aroused in a way that sheep can’t,” sheep fucker.

    A vituperative, ignorant, and a smelly foreigner living in a fishing commune posing as a country. That’s cute, sheep fucker.

    FWIW, the rest of the world can go piss on a tree.

    Like


  409. (who could have made up for the west’s demographic deficit)

    This “demographic deficit” does not exist. It is an invention of corporate industries and left wing politicians who want cheap labor and socialist voters, respectively.

    Like


  410. PA,

    If your economic model (of the past 6 centuries) was not based on a pyramid scheme, it might have been partially true.

    Like


  411. gig,

    keep on playing that game.. let’s see where it takes you.

    Like


  412. on September 14, 2009 at 10:34 am SAW: South Asian Woman

    “Outside of the Amish, I next rank the Mormons in that peace and contentment category–but without as much social isolation. Someone above said that IF a man marries, he’ll find the best luck from Eastern Europe, Latin America, or Asia. To that, I’d add “Mormon”–or possibly another fundamental religion, anything that instills both a firm moral background AND a strong social pressure.”
    ……………………………………….

    What about the Hare Krishnas?

    Like


  413. on September 14, 2009 at 10:48 am SAW: South Asian Woman

    “If any of you guys want to understand the real, deep meaning of America, check out the youtube clip of Susan Boyle singing “Wild Horses” by the Rolling Stones.
    It is to die for. It is for the Ages.
    Susan Boyle was severely oxygen deprived at birth.
    There it is: America was founded by brain-damaged freaks who somehow held onto an irrational belief in their worth as human beings.”

    …………… OK, spoken like a true (dumb) American. Susan Boyle is BRITISH, dude.

    Get a clue.

    Like


  414. Foreigners are the worst guests and hosts in the world.

    An American meeting a foreigner, “wow your country sounds nice, are you having a good time in America? How long will you be here for? Do you like to drink?”

    A foreigner meeting an American, “allow me to insult your country based on some gross generalizations I absorbed from the telly. Furthermore, coming from a backwater country that has had running water for one generation [alternative: coming from a country whose experience with socialism has turned us into a third world country], I think you should abandon your economic principles and give all your money to my country.”

    Like


  415. on September 14, 2009 at 11:08 am SAW: South Asian Woman

    We South Asians are known as the best hosts in the world, because of our “atithi deva bhavo” concept. The guest is god.

    We treat our guests like kings and queens.

    Like


  416. The guest is god.

    That’s a noble tradition, seen in many of the world’s cultures, includng Western ones. But it must be remember ed that the proper host/guest relationship is also defined by two critical obligations on the guest’s part: 1) to behave himself with utter deference to the host’s customs and expectations, and 2) to leave soon.

    This makes a guest not the same thing as two other kinds of outsiders, who do not merit “goldlike” treatement:

    – the invader
    – the settler/colonist (today known as “immigrant”)

    Like


  417. on September 14, 2009 at 11:30 am SAW: South Asian Woman

    “This makes a guest not the same thing as two other kinds of outsiders, who do not merit “goldlike” treatement:

    – the invader
    – the settler/colonist (today known as “immigrant”)”
    ……………………………………………………..

    Yep, we South Asians know all about the “invader” and the “colonist”.

    British Raj, anyone?

    Nonetheless, we still literally treated them like kings. In the case of the “Raj”, like Her Majesty herself.

    The Brits came in to do some chai (tea) business and before you knew it, (or before WE knew it), we were bowing before Her Majesty.

    Oh well…. it’s all Ganges water under the bridge.

    Looks like the tide is now turning….

    And the chakra (wheel) is now spinning….

    The chickens (or peacocks) are coming home to roost…..

    Karma is a bitch.

    Like


  418. on September 14, 2009 at 12:13 pm SAW: South Asian Woman

    Roissy, your bad for deleting my comment.

    I was gonna ask you out on a date and treat you to some authentic South Asian hospitality, but alas, no more.

    Like


  419. on September 14, 2009 at 12:15 pm mandy been here a while

    Amercian girls, even when they have a nice thin body, still always have that athletic-like thinckness to their thighs. Hormones in phood? I don’t know.

    But Amish girls are similar to E. European ones, in that their young women have that girlish willowness that you rarely see in American girls.

    You’ve seen Amish thighs!?!

    Like


  420. Hey people, what’s good? Had a very busy weekend, and that to drop by to see what’s going on; as per usual, Roissy’s posted up an interesting topic, that winds up being yet another pleasant discussion on Race or variations thereof. Ok, my comments, as follows:

    1. Someone asked about the origins, contents and impact of what some has called “Thug Lit”, in other words, fictional novels written by and set in, America’s inner cities-ie, by and for Black folk. This is a very interesting question, and one I should like to explore in greater detail when the time comes, which is soon. I hope that those so interested will join me. Wait for my Sign.

    2. The actual topic of this post is also highly instructive and interesting as well, and again I’ll have more to say about it in due course.

    3. I am not the from what it seems, new commenter “Clarice”, and I say this in response to Dana, who accused me of assuming a new identity in order to post selected exerpts of Dr. Kevin MacDonald’s writings, a Man who is well known for his interests in evolutionary psychology and in particular, wrt how this relates to Jewry. Having said that, I do enjoy Clarice’s posting of Dr. MacDonald’s writings and note w/particular interest that Dana has yet to respond in a point for point manner, if at all. I do not pretend to be expert in these matters, but I do know this-that from its inception until about 1975 or so-some seven decades-the topmost positions in the country’s oldest civil rights organization-the NAACP-were held by JEWS. That’s a fact. The NAACP’s first Black president was if memory recalls correctly, Dr. Benjamin Hooks, circa 1975 or so. It has had nothing but Blac presidents since. Does this speak to anything Clarice has suggested wrt Jews? Maybe. Maybe not. Its a very interesting dicussion waiting to happen, though. I welcome Dana’s participation.

    4. Ruby’s concerns are legitimate, and I think he’s right insofar as Roissy’s own inclinations, as well as the seeming contradiction it forms w/his public befriending of Virgil Kent, who I understand is Black himself. I would like for Roissy to clarify these point himself, but of course that’s something completely left up to him. Until then, what we know about these things do seem to suggest things, but again, I don’t know, for sure.

    In any event, I woul kindly suggest to Ruby that he tick around. There are a lot of good comments made here, and of course Roissy routinely posts up topics that are quite enlightening. That and his understanding for Game is invaluable. Sometimes in life you gotta eat the fish and leave the bones.

    5. And finally, a word about Slavery. It is often the complaint of some White Males, that they and by extension, “their” Founding Fathers keep getting taken out to the woodshed for Slavery, yet never get ay credit for also being the force to end it, at least in the Western world, and to add further insult to injury, the same people who dog them and Thomas Jefferson out don’t seem to know or care much about slavery occuring in other parts of the world as we speak-what they really mean is that no one is saying anything about Black folks still enslaving other Black folks. Even though lots of White people are being enslaved by other Whites-the Liam Neeson sleeper hit movie earlier this year, “Taken” explores this.

    Anyway, here’s the bottomline point for my White brothers-and I tell you right now that it may hurt-but I’m just sayin’. The reason why you and yours keep getting dogged out on that score, is really simple-YOURE STILL IN POWER TO MAKE OR BREAK OTHER FOLK. Of course, not “you” in the sense that a dweeby White cubicle dweller can do anything to a Skip Gates-but taken as a class, a group, White Males still run shit. And they can make your life very uncomfortable for you, in just about every conceivable way, from schooling and employment/advancement/promotion, to literally life and death. It is for this reason, that NO, it is NOT cool for you to use the “N” word. Why it is NOT cool for you to be POTUS and bring in the White equivalent of Wanda Sykes and commence to snapping on Tom Joyner. Why it is NOT cool to piss and moan about dem Darkies getting over on Affirmative Action, because if that’s true then it raises all kinds of really ugly questions that you really don’t want answered. In short, being Top Dog has a price, and in this case, it means that you have to accept a bit of Hateration-justified or no-for being Top Dog. Comes with the job.

    When the day comes that things have really, totally and irreversiably have reversed themselves, and White Males are truly the Odd Man Out, THEN continuing to blame some old White guys for Slavery comes off as being cool, and so on and so forth. Until that Great Gettin’ Up Mornin’ comes though, you’ll just have to take it.

    Like I said, being Top Dawg do cost. No, its not fair, or rational. But it IS Human.

    Which yup, Black folk, too.

    Comment and reply, holla.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  421. Amish bitches can bake some mean bread, but they tend to smell a little yeasty.

    Like


  422. obsidian you mental patient i have already said 100 times anti semitism is right and mcdonald is right and jews were subversive communists in many threads

    Like


  423. Hi Dana,
    I’m sorry if I’ve missed you crying out “Uncle!” and slapping your hand on the mat in submission, perhaps that had to do w/the other comments of yours where your rhetorically slobbing on one of the White guys’ knobs here? But I suppose better late than never.

    So we’re in agreement that the Good Doctor is on to something?

    O

    Like


  424. Obs:

    Until that Great Gettin’ Up Mornin’ comes though, you’ll just have to take it.

    Like I said, being Top Dawg do cost. No, its not fair, or rational. But it IS Human.

    And it is fair and rational of whites to point out how unfair and irrational it is.

    There aren’t many “white spaces” where such discussion and criticism is allowed. Fortunately, there is this blog. A blog where pretty lies perish. It should come as no surprise that whites will avail themselves of the opportunity to say here what is otherwise verboten.

    Now, if this type of politically incorrect speech was allowed in halls of academia or the mainstream media, then Ruby’s complaints might have some merit.

    Until that Great Gettin’ Up Mornin’ comes though, you’ll just have to take it.

    p.s. how bout that Kanye?

    Like


  425. Zunder

    Listen here you ignorant fuckface. Do your historical research. New Zealand has fought in every major conflict in modern history, including Korea and Viet Nam. Yes, Viet fucking Nam mate.

    New Zealand also keeps our naval vessels that are suspected of having any nukes on board from docking there. What’s up with that?

    Like


  426. SAW, I don’t think sitting around in European cities, collecting welfare counts as much chickens coming home to roost.

    Like


  427. Sofia–

    Also, it’s a principle of the thing: I can’t respect couples who are opposed to pre-marital sex, but will do everything else that lies outside vaginal intercourse.

    Why not. That’s a very narrow attitude Sofia.

    They’re drawing a line. That line may well have special cultural/religious significance. E.g. that the girl’s hymen remain intact for her marriage. It is saving something special, very special, for marriage. It’s saving the ultimate.

    As well, it’s a form of natural birth control.

    Like


  428. on September 14, 2009 at 1:35 pm SAW: South Asian Woman

    Tupac, I disagree that there are not many spaces for white men to vent their political incorrectness. That space is the default of American Society, though it’s getting reversed now, and yeah, too much PC-ness is annoying.

    But here’s what I’ve found. It’s white people themselves who keep themselves bound to PC-ness with regards their own kind, and by extension, perhaps others.

    I say a lot of really un-pc stuff about many people, and the ONLY group I feel I have to walk-on-glass with is white folk.

    This is in regard to both their own culture, as well as the culture of varous “colored folk”.

    I come from a strong culture that values family, lifelong marriage and higher education. I would say 99% of the white folk (here in USA at least) I know don’t fall into that category and it is very un-pc to bring up their high rate of divorce, absense of family structure and low motivation/drive.

    If I so much as mention the possibility of “staying together for the sake of the kids” – Good Lord! The response I get.

    I’ve been “ostracized” by a few friends precisely because of this.

    On the other hand, I don’t have to pussyfoot around black people or other people of color (and that’s including non-South Asians), about the issues in their cultures.

    Black people especially are down to earth and the very anti-thesis of political correctness. They never try to make things sound “pretty”. There is no “I’m OK, you’re OK” mentality.

    So, what’s up white folk?

    Why is it so hard to take a good hard look at yourselves?

    (We South Asians are trained from kindergarten to feel low self-esteem if we so much as get a “B” on a report card, so we are constantly taking good hard looks at ourselves, TOO hard, I would say. Perhaps we could learn a thing or two from y’all regarding R and R and adopting the “it’s all good” attitude).

    Like


  429. In Response to JB:

    My immediate ERM worries are Resource Wars [especially peak oil, fresh water & rare earth minerals], the Economic Rise of the B.R.I.C. [Brazil, Russia, India, China] Block and their desire to catch up to rapidly catch up to the U.S. in quality of life and geopolitical/military capability, Ethnic/Culture Wars via mass immigration and refugee movement (See: World Population Density by 2050) and C.R.B.N.E. [Chemical, Radioactive, Biological, Nuclear & Explosive] Terrorism.

    All these factors together, I suspect, will shape the face of this century.

    In Response to Obsidian:

    Much obliged and no worries — I am not going anywhere.

    I still comment on the “Culture Wars” here every now and then, but my main focus & involvement will always be the learning and refinement of “Game”.

    Just reading and implementing the theory of ‘Roissy-&-Co.’ has helped me immeasurably in the social field these past few months.

    Everything from disarming an abusive female boss by invoking the ‘little girl’ in her, to punking down an asshole male co-worker trying to AMOG me to a new cute associate to chatting up, negging and holding the interest of an 8-scale Meditteranean girl while on-the-job [but sadly not number-closing her due to time, setting & professional constraints].

    I’m not ready for straight-up PUA-level pursuits as being a 21 year old intellectual who lives in the ghetto cuts my social/economic/cultural breakthrough potential significantly,…

    (I’m tired of the choice between ‘Slum Street Angels’, ‘SWPL Faux-Counter-Culture Grrrls’ and ‘overweight, experimental upper-middle-class Jewish, Hispanic and WASP Princesses’. I want quality.

    …but I’m getting there with a speed, efficiency and effectiveness that I would have never obtained without “Game”.

    In Response to Tupac Chopra:

    I don’t truly have any complaints about this forum, anymore.

    My line of commentary within the “Herb Attack!” thread was an admission that the shape of discourse here was such that no opposing opinions had the potential to ‘win’.

    Any criticisms I have and will put forth since will be out of personal inquiry rather than defense of ideals.

    I don’t feel the need to satisfy my e-go through battles here.

    Like


  430. on September 14, 2009 at 2:20 pm St. Andrew's Links

    Ruby, how about South Asian women? How do you feel about us?

    (I’m always game for an urban intellectual, even if younger than me. Hey, like “black don’t crack” well – “brown don’t frown”…. our skin stays niiiiiiiiice even into our 50s).

    Like


  431. Ruby,

    Glad to hear that you’re learnin’ lots, but just try to sound less gay if you can. All of your comments sound like you typed them out while sitting on a dildo and fingering some guy’s asshole. Leave the excessive autobiographical narratives and constant self-justification/rationalizations to the ladies.

    Like


  432. on September 14, 2009 at 2:53 pm SAW: South Asian Woman

    Ayer, Ruby already stated he was an urban intellectual. That, plus several tokes, sets him up for long monologues.

    No takers, Ruby?

    Call me. I’m a good listener…….. and hostess.

    Like


  433. Obsidian

    This long post of yours is bs. Way off.

    What you are describing is Marxist logic. Culturally Marxist logic to be more specific.

    There’s no reason that white people HAVE to allow unbalanced bitching or guilt tripping about slavery by blacks and leftist whites. The only reason blacks can get away with it and aren’t intellectually crushed is in fact because of leftist whites, lead as always in things leftist, and in our media and most elite universities by leftist Jews.

    Slavery was a human universal, as soon as agriculture arose. Wife raiding and female abducting goes back to when we first became sapiens the evidence strongly suggests, and was one of the principal reasons for earliest human warfare, or skimishing really. What was remarkable was ending it.

    There’s no reason whites have to extend affirmative action to blacks. Had it not been extended to blacks it almost certainly wouldn’t have been to anyone else, including women. Feminism piggybacked, beyond any question of a doubt. A large and solid majority of the country is opposed to affirmative action, when the question is posed fairly and neutrally.

    Like


  434. Ruby,
    That’s the spirit, Man. The thing I like about this forum is that it truly is freewheeling, and you gotta stand your ground or get rolled over. If you go back through the achives you’ll see plenty of me taking on various comers on varied topics, and most of the time I not only hold my ground but I take a good bit of the other side’s ground, too. But then I like to fight. 😉

    As for honing your skills is concerned, yea, Roissy and others here most definitely offer good, solid advice in that regard, so keep reading. There have been a few othr blogs started up that are a part of the Roissysphere that offers good stuff too, In Mala Fide and Alpha Dominance being two off the top of my head. Very soon I’ll have my own blog setup to add my own two cents to the pot. It’s all good.

    Having said all that, and I say this in part as a reponse to Tupac Chopra (who I will respond more in detail in a seperate post), I honestly do think that a lot of what is said along racial lines is frustration on the part of a lot of White guys here. Hey, let’s be honest-this aint particularly the best time to be a fairly high IQ White guy, for a host of reasons. Roissy and others have mentioned quite a few those that relate directly to dating and mating, such as increased educational, economic and political freedom for Women, which translates directly into them being able to choose who they really want to partner with w/o fear of social censure and rebuke. But another major reason why the high IQ Betas are getting the shaft comes from the economic world, too-Sanjay and Chang can do these guys’ jobs at a fraction of the price now. So, in a lot of ways, the meta-message, from the culture, the economic world and Women is, “we don’t need you” and that’s a very bitter pill for just about any Man to swallow. More than many may realize, I have a tremendous amount of empathy for their plight. And is part of the reason why I participate in forums like these, because I believe I can assist at least a few here in getting some measure of happiness in this world-which, as I always say, if you’re a Man, is to be found between the thighs of a Woman.

    Its understandable why a lot of White guys would be angry these days. Its a lot to take. Those in the Game often will use pop culture references. One of them is The Matrix, and when a guy finds out for the first time how Women’s sexual natures really operate, how the world really works, etc, it can and usually does make a lot of Men very angry and bitter and resentful. In fact the complaints of “misogyny” often heard by those who take issue with Game, I try to explain to such people that what they’re hearing are angry guys who’ve basically been sold a bill of damaged goods all their lives and this is a natural response.

    The problem I have, after the guys have had their time to vent, is that they don’t seem able or willing to get out of that rut. At some point, you have to move on. You have to. And the great thing about it is, they can move on, because the tools and methods are there for the taking, along w/”tech support”. But making that mental transition, which is essential w/Game, is easier said than done.

    Anyway, your comments about the kinds of gals you’ve dated and the kinds you want to get are interesting. Me personally, I never had it that strictly codified, I just kinda had a broad outline of what I did and didn’t want, and for the most part I’ve been successful.

    Anyway, it’s great that you stick around! Hang tough and if there’s anything I can help you out with, holla.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  435. @ Ruby – You ever read 13D?

    Like


  436. Doug,

    Becase if it’s about sexual purity, then isn’t the purity no longer in effective existence if you do everything else in the book?

    Some part of me does think it’s incredibly romantic in a way to have stayed a virgin until marriage, but I don’t think I have the willpower. Plus, a lot of guys might look at the idea of a 23 or 24 year old virgin with wary eyes.

    “What’s wrong with her?”
    “Is she a prude?”

    Also, a lot of pressure and expectation.

    Like


  437. Joe

    Dana @ruby

    what would roissy’s statement either way “settle” exactly?

    ruby, please don’t answer this ridiculous argument-bait question.

    There’s nothing ridiculous about the question at all. The same question more or less arose in my mind when reading Ruby. It’s his assertion that it would settle a lot of things around here that was ridiculous.

    Like


  438. Doug1,
    If yo will kindly recall and review my remarks, I clearly stated that it was irrational, nor was it fair, for Blacks or any other group, such as Leftist Whites, to continue to blame White Americans enmasse for the crime of Slavery, etc, especially given the steps those same White Americans, in a historical sense, took to eradicate it. We don’t disagree in that regard.

    What you and apparently Tupac refuses to see however, is that when you are on top there comes a certain “pricetag” with it. In a free and democratic society, that means folks are free to hate on you. Its a release valve for them to let off steam in a relatively harmless way, and the history of satire and comedy, going all the way back to the Romans and Greeks, clearly demonstrates this. It’s no accident that in American society and life, the single biggest contributors to comedy and satire came from the Blacks and Jews, two historically discriminated against groups. Its not funny or very brave when the Top Dog kicks the Underdog. Just isn’t. Again: yea, its kinda irrational to lump in Brett the Beta Cubicle Dweller in with Thomas Jefferson, but as we both know, Human Nature is hardly rational. No matter what his personal travails, the bottomline is that Brett still has considerable social capital in our time, because being White still means something today-perhaps not as much as it used to, granted. Nevertheless, it does. For most Blacks, this aint the case. Black folk can’t makr hiring and firing decisions, decide who goes to jail and who doesn’t, or decide who gets mortages or loans and who doesn’t-for the overwhelming most part, Whites still make the call.

    I think this the reason why a lot of guys-and by that let me be clear, I’m talking about a certain group of White guys-seem to have so much difficulty with Game and by extension, Women. It’s too “irrational” to them, and in many ways, they’d be right. But in order to be successful with Game, I think you have to first be a keen student of Human Nature, because a lot of it IS irrational. And in what area of life is it more irrational, than that of dating, mating, sex and relationships?

    Do you understand what I’m saying here, Doug?

    The Obsidian

    Like


  439. on September 14, 2009 at 4:40 pm SAW: South Asian Woman

    Obsidian, you are verbose. Or is it verbiose?

    I see things holistically. Or is it wholistically.

    Being politically correct benefits white people in more ways than one nowadays.

    If they cannot take an objective look at other peoples’ bad habits and cultural issues, that then frees them up to have as many divorces they want and to forego higher education.

    They greenlight themselves for all sorts of low class or what would have once been considered “white trash” behaviour.

    No other group does this.

    I’m brown. I’m South Asian. My opinions about whites or anyone else are not PC.

    However, I am FORCED to PC-ize my rhetoric and walk as if on glass when in the presence of most single mom and dad daters in this country.

    I think “white guilt” and political correctness was invented just so white people didn’t have to take a good hard look at themselves in the process.

    I mean, if it’s OK for T-Mobile (some guy’s actual name!) and Aquanetta to have 6 kids by 6 baby’s mamas and daddies, then it MUST be OK for me to be a single dad dating right?

    I mean, it’s not THAT important for my kids to get good grades in school and go on to higher education and a professional career, now is it?

    See where I’m going with this……………

    Like


  440. Tupac,
    Replies as follows:

    “Like I said, being Top Dawg do cost. No, its not fair, or rational. But it IS Human.”

    TUPAC CHOPRA: And it is fair and rational of whites to point out how unfair and irrational it is.

    OBSIDIAN: Of course, but that’s not the point. Please see my response to Doug1 above. It’s about understanding Human Nature, which a goodly number of our White brothers do not seem able to grasp, and it is telling that this inability or refusal, I don’t know which, is also at play as to why they don’t seem to do as well with Women. Game has a good deal about it that’s counterintuitive and downright irrational about it. Yet it works, why, because it is a mirror of Human Nature, in this case, as it relates to Women. People aren’t a bunch of Vulcans, Tupac. Logic and reason have their place, but how many times have people been swayed by that?

    TC: There aren’t many “white spaces” where such discussion and criticism is allowed. Fortunately, there is this blog. A blog where pretty lies perish. It should come as no surprise that whites will avail themselves of the opportunity to say here what is otherwise verboten.

    O: A blog that is also obstensibly devoted to Game, no less. Which again speaks to my thesis, which is that often the “discussions” that go on here wrt Race are often the airing of frustrations on a whole host of levels for a certain group of White Males, that stems from their constantly rebuffed by Women. There has to be a reason for that, and Blacks and others makes a convenient scapegoat and target. Game is a ruthless exercise in introspection, and the truth is most guys don’t want to be introspective, because then it would demand that changes be made and a lot of guys don’t want to do that. Its easier to gather in a space and cry in one’s beer.

    TC: Now, if this type of politically incorrect speech was allowed in halls of academia or the mainstream media, then Ruby’s complaints might have some merit.

    O: OK.

    TC: Until that Great Gettin’ Up Mornin’ comes though, you’ll just have to take it.

    O: Bring. It. On. I enjoy dispelling as many of my White brethren’s pretty lies as Roissy. I live to prove them wrong, wrong, wrong about what they *think* they know about Black folks, since its clear they have so little firsthand knowledge themselves by the way they talk and act. Take OneSTDV for example-I love rhetorically dismantling him. Had to school him on the history of Hip Hop the other day at Ferdi’s place, btw. Hope he isn’t a deadbeat, he owes me $200 for that lesson. I don’t work cheap. 😉

    TC: p.s. how bout that Kanye?

    O: How about him-I don’t follow him much. What happened?

    The Obsidian

    Like


  441. In Response to Obsidian:

    Thanks. I look forward to the blog.

    The cultural-makeup of the girls in my area is due to it being an old agricultural/university town with historic black roots and a new gentrifying WASP/Asian population.

    My ‘pickings’ are made up of the type of girls that I’ve faired well with in the past; Though, as I’ve said, I’m working to trade up.

    The local college girls are looking finer and finer each year…

    In Response to Seeking Alpha:

    13D?

    Like


  442. Obsidian-

    No matter what his personal travails, the bottomline is that Brett still has considerable social capital in our time, because being White still means something today-perhaps not as much as it used to, granted.

    No it doesn’t.

    Whites simply still compete strongly. They don’t get advantages as a group but rather the reverse. They’re legally discriminated against. Formally through affirmative action but also informally by being the group it’s progressive to diversify away from and always ok to fire. Or to require to work longer hours in effect.

    Like


  443. Obsidian

    As for your whole stickt about white men having the most trouble with women, it’s rubbish. Sure some white men do. AS do some black men.

    The most beautiful women in this country overwhelmingly hook up with white men. Both marry and hook up with them before marriage.

    Like


  444. on September 14, 2009 at 5:29 pm SAW: South Asian Woman

    O: A blog that is also obstensibly devoted to Game, no less. Which again speaks to my thesis, which is that often the “discussions” that go on here wrt Race are often the airing of frustrations on a whole host of levels for a certain group of White Males, that stems from their constantly rebuffed by Women. There has to be a reason for that, and Blacks and others makes a convenient scapegoat and target
    ………………………………………………

    Well then stop being so damn hot and you won’t get scapegoated and targeted so damn much!!!!

    If you can’t tone down your hotness (impossible for a true hottie or alpha), at least stop throwin’ your vibes at all of us t-deprived womyn-folk.

    Do something to level the playing field. Scale back, wait 2 seconds before you start to run….. I mean… something.

    Other men deserve a chance at us too!!!

    Like


  445. Hi Doug1,
    Replies as follows:

    O: Obsidian-

    No matter what his personal travails, the bottomline is that Brett still has considerable social capital in our time, because being White still means something today-perhaps not as much as it used to, granted.

    D: No it doesn’t.

    Whites simply still compete strongly.

    O: Mostly against EACH OTHER. Even Sailer wrote about this recently in the wake of the Ricci case. Please review it.

    D: They don’t get advantages as a group but rather the reverse.

    O: Translation-White Males don’t. Still, who controls the major levers of power in this country, Doug1? To ask the question is to answer it.

    D: They’re legally discriminated against.

    O: I what way, specifically? Please explain?

    D: Formally through affirmative action but also informally by being the group it’s progressive to diversify away from and always ok to fire.

    O: Low status Males of ANY society are the last hired and first fired. Low status Males of any society are the first to be used as cannon fodder. Nothing new there. Nor is it something Blacks can or should solve. They can’t, and they probably shouldn’t try to.
    In any event, we both have agreed that the biggest beneficiaries of Affrimative Action are and have been White Women-so if White guys are really serious about ending it, they know where they can find the biggest beneficiaries of it. More often than not, right under their own roofs.

    D: Or to require to work longer hours in effect.

    O: Today people work less, compared to this time a century ago. Andi can promise you Doug, the vast majority of Men here do not know what it is to work in a freezer to the tune of 60-plus hours a week, 6 days a week, starting their day at 4AM and ending it round 11PM, for years. So, cry me a river.

    With all due respect.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  446. Obsidian–

    O: A blog that is also obstensibly devoted to Game, no less. Which again speaks to my thesis, which is that often the “discussions” that go on here wrt Race are often the airing of frustrations on a whole host of levels for a certain group of White Males, that stems from their constantly rebuffed by Women. There has to be a reason for that, and Blacks and others makes a convenient scapegoat and target.

    Rubbish. At least 80% of the race talk/debate that goes on here goes on between you and a few white guys. You are constantly provoking it with your black male sexual supremacy stickt, and your claim that being real smart and getting hot girls are inherently mutually incompatible as some sort of Obsidian HBD addendum (for balance and justice sake, you obviously feel), with no evidence. There’s considerable anecdotal evidence to the contrary.

    What is true is that being smart by itself doesn’t turn the hotties on, or doesn’t many of them. Takes some drive and confidence as well, and best of all, good game. Being a dull slacker without game turns them on even less.

    Like


  447. Obsidian-

    O: Translation-White Males don’t. Still, who controls the major levers of power in this country, Doug1? To ask the question is to answer it.

    White males out compete everyone else at the highest levels of most fields. They get NO AA or diversity advantages, but rather are discriminated against.

    Low status Males of ANY society are the last hired and first fired. Low status Males of any society are the first to be used as cannon fodder. Nothing new there. Nor is it something Blacks can or should solve. They can’t, and they probably shouldn’t try to.

    The first fired should be the least able and the least productive. Often that is women or blacks. They shouldn’t be protected by the threat of lawsuits based on EEOC etc. rules and principles.

    Like


  448. Hi Doug1,
    Replies below:

    DOUG1: Rubbish. At least 80% of the race talk/debate that goes on here goes on between you and a few white guys.

    O: That might be true for more recent times, but it has been noted by more than one person that this forum has entertained racial discussions long before I arrived, which was roughly a year ago, and which were done in the name of “keeping it real”. I’ve told you about this several times. So has Chic Noir and, prior to his departure, T aka Ricky Raw.

    Moreover I have been post much over the past few weeks here, due mainly to handling other concerns out in the real, and due to my spending a bit of time over at Ferdinand’s new blog, In Mala Fide. For example, in just over the past few days, racial discussions have erupted over at on the Amish thread; you’ll note that I don’t appear in said thread until today.

    So, you were saying?

    D: You are constantly provoking it with your black male sexual supremacy stickt, and your claim that being real smart and getting hot girls are inherently mutually incompatible as some sort of Obsidian HBD addendum (for balance and justice sake, you obviously feel), with no evidence.

    O: Hmm. OK, first, I’ve always argued that personally, every Woman I’ve ever had placed a huge value on my intelligence. Second, I was merely repeating what has been stated by HBD bloggers on the matter of high IQ White Males and their inability to relate socially to others. Third, I’ve never said that Black Men were sexually superior to anyone. What I said was, that it is easily observed, and generally agreed upon, that on average, Black Men tend to have more Natural Game than do White Men. I then suggested that this could be due at least in part to HBD reasons. To date, no one has taken an interest to really find out why that is, however. Seems like a job for The Obsidian to hash out.

    D: There’s considerable anecdotal evidence to the contrary.

    O: Really? How so? Please explain?

    D: What is true is that being smart by itself doesn’t turn the hotties on, or doesn’t many of them. Takes some drive and confidence as well, and best of all, good game. Being a dull slacker without game turns them on even less.

    O: No disagreements here. I wonder how we got to this topic from the previous one above, though…

    The Obsidian

    Like


  449. Hi Doug1:

    Replies below:

    OBSIDIAN: Translation-White Males don’t. Still, who controls the major levers of power in this country, Doug1? To ask the question is to answer it.

    DOUG1: White males out compete everyone else at the highest levels of most fields. They get NO AA or diversity advantages, but rather are discriminated against.

    O: You left out stuff like Legacy admits, hookups and plain ole Nepotism-heck, even Saul Bellow’s boy wrote about this. Still though, you haven’t answered my question, so let’s try this again, Barrister:

    Who still makes the major decisions in this country? Is it A: Black people

    B: White Women

    Or

    C: White Men?

    Your response?

    O: Low status Males of ANY society are the last hired and first fired. Low status Males of any society are the first to be used as cannon fodder. Nothing new there. Nor is it something Blacks can or should solve. They can’t, and they probably shouldn’t try to.

    D: The first fired should be the least able and the least productive. Often that is women or blacks. They shouldn’t be protected by the threat of lawsuits based on EEOC etc. rules and principles.

    O: That may be, but your dodging my major point-that low status Males ALWAYS get the shaft regardless of the time or clime. PERIOD. Now, agree or disagree with that statement, Doug?

    The Obsidian

    Like


  450. Obsidian

    That might be true for more recent times, but it has been noted by more than one person that this forum has entertained racial discussions long before I arrived, which was roughly a year ago,

    You like to say that, and jumped on it hard when Ricky Raw said that. Well, not that I saw. Some but not that much. Nothing like the last 9 months or so with you here. Maybe a year.

    I arrived about a year ago too, maybe 1.3 or so years ago, but I’ve read the whole blog through. Not every single comment; I skimmed a lot. But most comment threads.

    Like


  451. Hi Doug,
    Replies as follows:

    KObsidian

    As for your whole stickt about white men having the most trouble with women, it’s rubbish. Sure some white men do. AS do some black men.

    The most beautiful women in this country overwhelmingly hook up with white men. Both marry and hook up with them before marriage.”

    O: I don’t recall ever making the claim that White Men don’t get laid, period. I’ve always couched my statements within the larger context of the HBD debate. Still, even if all of what you say about this topic were true, it still doesn’t address the point that lots of Men, largely White, who come to this forum aren’t getting laid. That being the case, we need to spend at least as much time discussing how they can fix this instead of addressing your strawmen.

    😉

    Your witness, Barrister…

    O

    Like


  452. Doug,

    Replies as follows:

    Doug1

    Obsidian:
    “That might be true for more recent times, but it has been noted by more than one person that this forum has entertained racial discussions long before I arrived, which was roughly a year ago,”

    DOUG1: You like to say that, and jumped on it hard when Ricky Raw said that. Well, not that I saw. Some but not that much. Nothing like the last 9 months or so with you here. Maybe a year.

    I arrived about a year ago too, maybe 1.3 or so years ago, but I’ve read the whole blog through. Not every single comment; I skimmed a lot. But most comment threads.

    O: The big point then, since you’ve been able to see the difference, is that before there was a kind of “safe place” akin to what Tupac spoke to above, where White guys could vent their Blue Balls frustrations w/o fear of cnesure or rebuke. Then I and a few others came along who could actually challenge them on their suppositions. The reason why there’s a lot more heat is due to the simple fact that Black folk can and will respond. So, I don’t want in any way to shutdown those who wish to make racially charged remarks; I only ask that the moderator allow me to bodyslam such statements.

    Next question?

    O

    Like


  453. msexceptiontotherule–

    A lot of “trafficing” statistics are highly suspect Feminist propaganda against prostitution. These feminist activists want to lump all or vast amounts of prostitution into slavery when usually it isn’t. Certainly there are cases of girls being abducted or tricked into it but they’re the minority.

    US feminists are in the vanguard of this effort. In most places in the world prostitution is either legal, or effectively legal. It’s legal in almost all of Europe for example.

    US feminists are extremists.

    Like


  454. Obsidian–

    The reason why there’s a lot more heat is due to the simple fact that Black folk can and will respond.

    No, I’m mostly just you.

    And you more provoke than respond. Although as I’ve said before you do it in a very smooth manner.

    Like


  455. No, it’s mostly just you.

    Like


  456. Tupac spoke to above, where White guys could vent their Blue Balls frustrations w/o fear of cnesure or rebuke

    Blue balls?

    I don’t think Tupac was talking about this being a place where “venting” takes place. I think we was talking about a place where the truth about racial things that affect us can be told w/o undue constraints of politically correct official lies and shout-downs.

    Like


  457. PA,
    Fair enough-but after the airing is done, how does that assist in one picking up chicks? I don’t see it but perhaps you do. If so, please share?

    See, I say that Roissy can allow for that kind of luxury, because he’s got Game, so after he’s done with the discussion, he can go out and swoop chicks. Can the others who engage in said discussions on a regular basis say as much? If so, great! They’ve won. But if not…they might want to give some thought as to their priorities.

    I’m merely saying that when discussions turn to straightahead Game-related topics, the number of commenters who actually contribute to the discussion dwindles. I know you do, same for Doug1, but come on, there’s a big difference btw the groups, and you know it. And I say that’s not by accident. We all speak about that which we know, and the truth is, that most guys here don’t get laid much. That isn’t a putdown, just saying that maybe if we talked about how to get laid more, there wouldn’t be as much of a need for “truthtelling”.

    Hmm?

    The Obsidian

    Like


  458. on September 14, 2009 at 6:35 pm SAW: South Asian Woman

    Let’s stop this silly race-baiting banter and bickering.

    White guilt and political correctness were invented by white people for a self-fulfilling purpose;

    Link here;
    http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/09/11/amish-love/#comment-129454

    Like


  459. Doug1,
    Whatever.the point is that I won’t allow dumbassery to occur on my watch. When someone wants to make all manner of provocative racial remarks and I’m on the set they can fully expect me to respond. Most of the White guys I’ve found aren’t used to actually debating these things w/smart Black folks. Well, as you can see, that’s changed.

    Now, the third time’s a charm…

    Doug, question: low status males, of any society, are likely to be dissed. Agree or disagree?

    O

    Like


  460. Obs:

    A blog that is also obstensibly devoted to Game, no less. Which again speaks to my thesis, which is that often the “discussions” that go on here wrt Race are often the airing of frustrations on a whole host of levels for a certain group of White Males, that stems from their constantly rebuffed by Women. There has to be a reason for that, and Blacks and others makes a convenient scapegoat and target.

    I understand that is your thesis, but that’s all it is.

    What *I’m* saying is that this blog is infamous for being a free-fire zone where people gather to talk about society in an unvarnished way. Because of this emphasis on Reality — feelings be damned — a culture has been created that often attracts some of the sharpest minds around, in so far as it deals with social philosophy.

    Since part of the reason this blog has this level of quality is due to its “anything goes” policy, it should come as no surprise that other taboo subjects get discussed, particularly race and immigration.

    You may think this is indicative of white high-IQ sexual frustration, but I assure you that there are many people who do just fine in the romance department who also hold the HBD views you find onerous.

    I’m willing to admit there is a sizable proportion of HBD geeks who use HBD as a vehicle to vent their frustration. Have at them, be my guest. I really don’t care.

    But I WILL say something when this blog comes under attack from would be censors. Some topics need to be discussed because they can’t be discussed anywhere else.

    TC: p.s. how bout that Kanye?

    O: How about him-I don’t follow him much. What happened?

    Oh, he was just “keepin it real” and flexing his underdog status by speaking truth to the “white males that run shit.”

    http://www.clickliverpool.com/clocked/celeb-stories/126130-lady-gaga-and-green-day-sweet-mtv-awards-in-new-york.html

    In other words, he was acting like a straight up nigger.

    Like


  461. SAW,
    Thanks for the compliments. But I think the real issue here is for guys to get introspective, because the only real thing that can change is themselves. Game is brutal in that regard and explains why a lot of guys fail at it. They aren’t willing to do the inner work required.

    Anyway, how’d you get wind of this blog? Please do tell a bit about yourself, I don’t recall seeing you in these parts before.

    Thanks.

    O

    Like


  462. on September 14, 2009 at 6:55 pm SAW: South Asian Woman

    ” Because of this emphasis on Reality — feelings be damned —”
    ………………………………

    If that’s the case and this blog likes to “keep it real”…..

    Lemme hear some opinions on single parents dating. I mean opinions that do NOT reflect the current post-modern politically correct new age white guilt view of the world.

    Am I the only one who finds it morally reprehensible and utterly disgusting?

    Like


  463. Obsidian

    Doug, question: low status males, of any society, are likely to be dissed. Agree or disagree?

    That approaches being a tautology. Low status=not as respected.

    Though low status females also tend to be treated badly in many societies. Less so in Anglosphere ones esp. since the 20th century got underway.

    Like


  464. SAW: South Asian Woman

    I’m brown. I’m South Asian. My opinions about whites or anyone else are not PC.

    The slice of South Asians we get immigrating here to America are wholly unrepresentative of the mass of India’s population. We essentially just get doctors and software engineers, more or less.

    Well increasingly we’re getting their wife’s sister and her brother who aren’t so smart, which will probably rapidly lower the achievement average. Unfortunately. We should junk the extended “family reunification” aspects of our immigration law and just go by skills and education, proxies for IQ and drive.

    Like


  465. on September 14, 2009 at 7:02 pm SAW: South Asian Woman

    What I find amusing is when white people harken back to the “nuclear family” as some sort of cultural Mount Everest (peak of civilization) for them.

    The nuclear family was the result of civilization’s downfall, not the zenith of its perfection.

    Check it…

    Large extended families which included several generations of great-grandparents, grandparents, parents, aunts and uncles are what made any culture great and its children secure, emotionally stable and productive.

    The nuclear family screamed INDEPENDENCE at all costs.

    “The couple” needed their privacy. And from there on in til now, we are seeing the results.

    But yeah, for post-modern whites and blacks to get BACK to just the nuclear family would be the first baby step in the right direction.

    America: When would NOW be a good time to start?

    Like


  466. Tupac,
    Replies as follows:

    TC: I understand that is your thesis, but that’s all it is.

    O: Yes. *Thesis*, not Hypothesis. In other words, just my observation of certain phenomena in this forum. Others are free to disagree of course, and I welcome their views.

    TC: What *I’m* saying is that this blog is infamous for being a free-fire zone where people gather to talk about society in an unvarnished way. Because of this emphasis on Reality — feelings be damned — a culture has been created that often attracts some of the sharpest minds around, in so far as it deals with social philosophy.

    O: Oh, I don’t doubt that-it’s just that I find it very interesting that those who shout the most about “keeping it real” and “feelings be damned” are the first ones to cry foul when someone else notices that they got some stuff that stinks, too. Some recent exchanges between PA and Joe are indicative of this, as well as Doug’s highly reactant replies to what he perceives as my advocacy of “Black Male Sexual Supremacy” or some such. In other words, its perfectly OK to “keep it real” about everyone else, but NOT OK for anyone else to keep it real about White folks. Interesting dynamic.

    TC: Since part of the reason this blog has this level of quality is due to its “anything goes” policy, it should come as no surprise that other taboo subjects get discussed, particularly race and immigration.

    O: Then your statement directly contradicts Doug’s, who basically argues that all the race stuff really started when I arrived. My response was that the appearance of more “heat” since my arrival was due to the simple fact that aid discussions took place in a “safe space” as you spoke to, which meant that White guys could say stuff without challenge; my presence changed that. It will remain.

    TC: You may think this is indicative of white high-IQ sexual frustration, but I assure you that there are many people who do just fine in the romance department who also hold the HBD views you find onerous.

    O: Such as?

    TC: I’m willing to admit there is a sizable proportion of HBD geeks who use HBD as a vehicle to vent their frustration. Have at them, be my guest. I really don’t care.

    O: But they seem to outweigh those in the HBD community whom you say are more akin to Roissy in both spirit and deed. I need to see evidence of this? Cite?

    TC: But I WILL say something when this blog comes under attack from would be censors. Some topics need to be discussed because they can’t be discussed anywhere else.

    O: I am in full support of your position here. I find Censorship abhorrent. Let a thousand flowers bloom and all that. My only concern is that when racial discussions come up that there be a true two way discussion, and that we actually focus just a bit more on Game.

    TC: p.s. how bout that Kanye?

    O: How about him-I don’t follow him much. What happened?

    TC: Oh, he was just “keepin it real” and flexing his underdog status by speaking truth to the “white males that run shit.”

    In other words, he was acting like a straight up nigger.

    O: I’m having trouble with your statement-are you saying that Kanye West’s statements, which you’re basically saying are in line with mine, constitutes being a Nigger? Or what? Please explain?

    And in any event, is what he saying, true or not? Is it not true that White Males still make important decisions?

    On another note I should point out that West comes from an academic background, as I understand his father was/is a professor. Not sure about his mom’s background before her passing. Several rappers have quite interesting and in some cases, academically inclined backgrounds. The Roots, for example, are quite highly educated. Common’s father played for the NBA. And NaS’ father is a famed jazz musician.

    Anyway, looking forward to your responses.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  467. on September 14, 2009 at 7:06 pm SAW: South Asian Woman

    “We should junk the extended “family reunification” aspects of our immigration law and just go by skills and education, proxies for IQ and drive.”………………….

    But Doug 1, without our families we would be no better than you.

    Our strong culture of family values is what makes us so damn good.

    Without that, we would be just as useless as the typical white or black American.

    Like


  468. Doug1,
    My point in asking the question was to merely point out the simple fact that low status Males come dead last behind everyone else. We all know that the bulk and mass of any society’s losers will be Males, be that homlessness, prison, murdered, etc. Hundreds if not thousands of Men go missing all the time, no one says anything about that, UNLESS he’s someone important in some way. Yet if a Woman or child goes missing, there’s round the clock coverage. Well, if they’re White and cute, that is.

    My point is that, knowing evolutionary psychology as we do, it is a waste of time and a fool’s errand for White guys to complain about being “dissed” because until White guys are removed from making all of the key decisions in our society in one way or another, nobody will give a damn. Bottomline, White guys still run shit here, and it is a waste of time sitting around crying about it, in a forum dedicated to Game. Its like bitching about the girl who dissed you around prom season 20 years ago while the Rosetta Stone to Poon sits right before you.

    Now, I want you and others to listen closely to what I’m about to say. I give a damn about my fellow American citizens, who just happen to be White Males. I realize that it’s not a good idea to have thousands or possibly millions of them being deeply unhappy due to a life of Blue Balls-and I believe that to whom much is given, much is required. So that’s one reason why I’m here, to do my part to assist Men-most of them White-try and get some measure of happiness in this life.

    I’m just saying at some point you have to ask what is the most productive use of your time insoar as your goals and objectives are concerned. And from where I sit, if you’re getting laid 12 times a year or less, you might want to think a bit less about what dem Darkies are doing, and a bit more about what you’re NOT doing, and take advantage of the knowledge of people in the forum who just might be able to help you out.

    You feel me?

    The Obsidian

    Like


  469. on September 14, 2009 at 7:16 pm SAW: South Asian Woman

    “We don’t hear about Palenstinian suicide bombings, Kashmir, terrorism in Europe, etc. anymore”………….

    Who’s “we”? And what are your news sources?

    Like


  470. on September 14, 2009 at 7:22 pm SAW: South Asian Woman

    Obs, I think it would be better in this day and age to actually teach white men how they can deal with their dry spells and blue-balls in a constructive way by channelling their sexual energy into a higher purpose, rather than teaching them how they can be just as sexually attractive to women as the black man.

    I see America’s obsession with sex, lack of family values, shacking up and single parents dating as the foundations of it’s degradation and gradual shift from super power status to
    ___________ fill in the blank. Any guess is as good as mine as to how this great social experiment is going to turn out.

    Teaching white men how to get the mojo of black men is NOT the answer.

    I think teaching them tantric techniques for successful celibacy might be though.

    Meanwhile, perhaps us South Asians and the Amish can teach them how to stay married and value their family members, including the old ones.

    America: when would NOW be a good time to start?

    Like


  471. Obsidian–

    Then your statement directly contradicts Doug’s, who basically argues that all the race stuff really started when I arrived.

    I did not say that.

    Though that’s typical of the way you twist things those you are debating say.

    Further I’ve got nothing against discussing race and immigration and so on here so long as we also discuss game and gender realism, the key focal points of Roissy. Both of those two, not just game. Gender realism combined with anti feminism. Those three things are what I talk about most on here by far.

    What I did say was that you have been at the center of the large majority of extended race bickering and race wars for around a year now, which I don’t think are productive of much of anything, and that they go on much longer because of you. Far from merely defending the honor and dignity of blacks you are often or usually on the offensive, although subtly and smoothly, with your implication or flat out statements that for HBD reasons smart white guys basically don’t have a shot at much successful game. Because due to the justice of the cosmos, whites have to pay for their greater smarts with less ability to ever learn much game. Or smart higher status whites have to anyway. Though other times you do strike this helping out pose. So people get confused.

    What I really have a problem with Obsidian is when you seek to undermine the fledgling hope of white betas who come here to learn game, with the message that really it’s pretty much hopeless for them. That’s not always you message. That’s not your message right this moment while I and others are holding your feet to the fire. Sometimes you strike a pose of genuinely trying to help, but often you do go on an undermine mission.

    I don’t want to undermine any guy’s hope. Particularly that of socially valuable, productive males, who should get pussy rewards for the good of the society.

    Like


  472. here we go wit this race crap. 7 days and back to the same ole stuff. give it a break. neither group is going anywhere. learn to coexist.

    Like


  473. Obsidian–

    My point in asking the question was to merely point out the simple fact that low status Males come dead last behind everyone else.

    What have low status males got to do with this blog or the debates here? I’ve frequently made it clear that I’m not much concerned with slacker males, be they white or any other race/ethnicity, who can’t get laid. In many ways I think they shouldn’t. Shouldn’t reproduce, etc. I’ve got no problem with the bottom quarter of men being unable to reproduce.

    What I do have a problem with is highly productive, smart and engaged men, who are the backbone of our economy, many of them, if not completely unable to get laid eventually usually, only able to do so infrequently with less attractive women.

    I DO think that women should be shamed, viciously and persistently, by society for getting with thug type males. Not edgie, aggressive, socially productive in one way or another males who have an asshole streak or side to them. Oh no. That’s fine and good and keeps the creative and creatively destructive juices flowing and so on. But black or white thugs I do have a problem with.

    The notion that “natural man” that is tribal or hunting & gathering peoples allowed girls to mate entirely according to their gina tingles, or for that matter that girls did all the choosing and society or men little of it is simply false, if one looks at the ethnographic / anthropological literature. Most marriages and matings were partly arranged. Girls might have quite a bit of say or veto power or little. They rarely could just pick whoever they wanted, free of social shaping and usually as well prohibitions and requirements. As well a significant percentage of wives were obtained by rading in many HG bands.

    Like


  474. Ah, now we get to the good stuff. Let’s dive right in:

    Yes Doug, I am saying that Game will not and cannot save everyone. There are reasons for this, and really, I haven’t said anything Roissy hasn’t said, but suppose its true, the messenger matters as well as how the message is delivered-and hearing this from a Black Man who has little if any problem in this regard can, I fully concede, be painful for some to take. Just like when White guys say that some Black folks simply aren’t smart enough to meet the demands of the 21st century. The door swings both ways.

    But yea, anyway, I don’t believe in sugarcoating anything, and the plain truth is that some guys are too Aspbergy to learn and wield Game effectively. That’s just the plain truth of it. Other guys are too lazy. Take your pick as to which is worse.

    This is why I say for such guys, we should have fully legalized prostitution nationwide, a fullscale repealing of the IMBRA provision of the VAWA Act, and full implementation of Roe For Men, as well as Mandatory Paternity Testing. Because I realize that everybody won’t have the talent, or desire, to get Game.

    But those White guys I can help, I do so. That’s how I roll.
    Your turn.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  475. In Response to Chic Noir:

    Hell, they don’t even have to coexist.

    Taking a hint from the unwritten pages of “Alpha: Owner’s Guide to Your Social Capital”, one of the most ‘Alpha’ acts that a man can perform, if not the very essence of ‘Alpha’ itself, is to walk away at will.

    These conflicts will only subside when one side chooses to be Alpha, rather than Beta’ly offended at their opponent’s every sleight, and just WALK AWAY.

    Like


  476. Moreover Doug, it is wholly irrelevant whether a guy is a “good man”-so what. It means nothing in our world today, insofar as dating and mating are concerned. One deosnt need Roissy to know that thugs, criminals and jerks can and do get far and away more Women than Brett the Cubicle Dweller. It may not be fair, but life rarely is.

    The plain truth of it Doug, is that Women no longer NEED a provider. Period. A lot of guys are obsolete, and unless they’re willing to adapt to the new demands of the marketplace, they will find themselves going the way of the Do-Do Bird. And here I’m not trying to bait anyone or be provocative, because Mystery says the same thing at the very beginning of his book.

    Women now can choose who they want to be with. Period. And no amount of tilting at windmills, conducting circle jerk hatin on Darky sessions and the like is gonna change this. Either adapt or accept your Fate. It’s really as simple as that.

    As for your comments about my involvement here, yup the racial discussions do go on longer than they need to because now there’s a true two way dicussion, and let me tell you and everyone else here, that I will be challenging anything I deem out of pocket racially. It will happen. Early and often. So, if people like you would really rather see more light than heat, especially in the Game sphere, maybe it might be a good idea to dissuade said guys who want to racially vent from doing so? It’s counterproductive anyway, we’ve both agreed to that, right? They should accept the fact that Darkies aint the reason why they aint Masters of the Universe, its higher up White Males and their sisters. And if they really got a pair they’d go and confront THEM. Instead of scapegoatin’ and hatin’ on folk who can’t do anything about their plight.

    Now Doug, we’ve done some good work together insofar as Game goes-we’ve agreed on a number of things, etc. Don’t you think its a better use of time if we did more of that, rather than we going through why I keep having to teach you that Black folk are human beings, capable of just about anything Whites can do? Hmm?

    Now, think about this before you answer…

    The Obsidian

    Like


  477. @ruby- this place has become dead of late. I may need to give château R a posthumous
    write up.

    Too many posts falling below the minimum 500 comment quota means we are past the apex.

    Like


  478. SAW

    But Doug 1, without our families we would be no better than you.

    Our strong culture of family values is what makes us so damn good.

    Without that, we would be just as useless as the typical white or black American.

    Tough. Then don’t come here.

    Of course if you can prove you family member’s IQ, ok.

    Cause that’s what matters for a productive modern society. That and creative, inventive and creatively destructive juice, which does involve the right mix of testosterone aggression.

    Not the dumb thugishness that Obsidian celebrates, so long as it creates any gina tingle.

    Girls that go for that should be cast out as whores, sluts and jezebelles.

    Hey, not dissing alphas. Far be it for me. Just dissing the utterly disfunctional types of alpha. Which are a minority but not a tiny minority.

    Like


  479. “Hi Dana,
    I’m sorry if I’ve missed you crying out “Uncle!” and slapping your hand on the mat in submission, perhaps that had to do w/the other comments of yours where your rhetorically slobbing on one of the White guys’ knobs here? But I suppose better late than never.

    So we’re in agreement that the Good Doctor is on to something?”

    obs i am going to tell you AGAIN i ALWAYS agreed with KM, since i read hom MANY years ago, i agreed with him BEFORE i read him, when i was a 16 year old anti semitic, racist, fascist, jewish female, skinhead auxilliary and this was my favorite song:

    i AGREED with “clarice” before you came back–i had discussions in th epast with doug, whisley, vlad, and a few others BEFORE you trie dto “upset” me with KM

    OBSIDIAN

    i am an anti semitic jew, no uncle involved

    Like


  480. Dana

    For lots of reasons I dig the piss out of you.

    yeah you sometimes say extremely anti black things that make me uncomfortable, but overall.

    But beware, I may well be a lot less anti Semitic than you. Yeah, I think most of the well researched and intelligent claims are more true than not, but I also think there’s a lot on the other side of the balance scale.

    My dream is if Jewish leftists would just now stop. Or even, dream, change sides, in significant numbers. Then it wouldn’t be so bad. Continued, it will be.

    Like


  481. Doug,
    I find your last two comments quite interesting.

    On the one hand, you abhor my supposed lionizing of “thuggishness” in Black Men (something which I never have championed, ever), yet on the other you “dig the hell out of” Dana’s equally “thuggish” comments, even the “anti-Black” comments which you claim to have visceral reactions to. Interesting how Human Nature works, doesn’t it?

    Also, interesting how, when we were discussing the all-important claims the HBD make about IQ, you were quick to poo poo it, saying that other things mattered; now you hold it up as the sine qua non of Americana, to SAW. Even going so far as to suggest administering IQ tests before admitting an immigrant’s family members. Hmm.

    Fascinating.

    O

    Like


  482. Obsidian

    No, I made it clear to any who can read without huge racial emotion, that I have a problem with Dana’s black hate. I like other things about her, including her black white analyses which in her case, perhaps unusually, aren’t reduced to lack of acuity by her background very strong feelings. She keeps things separated and in check it seems.

    Like


  483. Obsidian–

    Also, interesting how, when we were discussing the all-important claims the HBD make about IQ, you were quick to poo poo it, saying that other things mattered; now you hold it up as the sine qua non of Americana, to SAW.

    More misrepresenting.

    I’ve never poo pooed IQ.

    I have said it isn’t the only factor in success in the mainstream world, outside of sports and entertainment, where everyone knows it isn’t the number one issue. (Except in stand up comedy. I’m not sure how much the average joe knows about that but that field is HEAVILY IQ dependent. Though IQ isn’t remotely enough. Takes a kind of talent. That does involve asshole alpha.

    Yes other things matter too. I don’t know, maybe in most 21st century jobs, leaving aside AA (and your legacy stuff is basically bs crap in it’s degree or impact), IQ is 50-60%. Other things matter a whole lot but they aren’t any one thing. Aggressiveness and charisma. Drive. Conscientiousness. Looks, including for me. Even enough altruism. Not too much, enough. None of these later are nearly as easy to reliably measure as IQ. Even that they matter as much as I’m positing, aside from conscientiousness, is disputed.

    Like


  484. Including for men.

    Like


  485. Doug1, everyone knows that to make it today in the higher echelons of the society, it helps if you had your old Man there, or something like that. There’s simply no way in hell that you or anyone else can deny that having come through the past few decades. Both Bushes come from that kind of legacy. Clinton, a Rhodes Scholar. Obama, in a sense, benefitted from the nepotism system too, because his peeps on both sides of the family had a leg up. And that’s just for starters. Again, Saul Bellow’s son, I think his name is Adam(?), has writen about this American tradition. Nepotism is as American as Apple Pie.

    And again, we both know who really benefits from AA, so let’s not go there.

    As for Dana, your tepid remarks to her about yur “problems with her anti-Black” statements leave me wanting, when put against your praise for her overall stance. But that is your right.

    My point is that you’re holdin up IQ when it comes to a new immigrant bringin some of his or her family over. I find that interesting in light of recent comments you have made on the topic.

    Hmm.

    Still haven’t pointed out to me where I supposedly celebrate “thuggishness” in Black Men. Cite?

    The Obsidian

    Like


  486. Dana your video was interesting. It captures so clearly the differences between a woman like you and a woman like me. This one was one of my favs. Yours is deep and mine is… ya not. 😉

    Like


  487. on September 15, 2009 at 12:12 am The Fifth Horseman

    Doug1 wrote :

    The slice of South Asians we get immigrating here to America are wholly unrepresentative of the mass of India’s population. We essentially just get doctors and software engineers, more or less.

    Well increasingly we’re getting their wife’s sister and her brother who aren’t so smart, which will probably rapidly lower the achievement average.

    There is no evidence that the achievement average is lowering for Indians in the US. Indians, today, remain the highest income group in the US. Higher than Chinese, Jews, and WASPs. So there is no evidence that the scenario you are describing is remotely visible on the horizon as of yet.

    Even those Indians who are not white-collar professionals, and who own motels or 7/11s, still do well, and often earn much more than the engineers.

    Furthermore, Indians in Britain are in the 3rd and 4th generation now, and still outperform British whites. The same goes for Indians in South Africa.

    So Indians will continue to be the top performing group in the US for the next couple of decades at least. They should, however, recognize the value of the US system, which no other country could create, and vote Republican, rather than Democrat. Indians are lucky to be one of the only major groups that never had a history of discrimination against them in the US, due to a combination of keeping a low profile + arriving mostly after the 1960s.

    The good news is that the two highest-ranking elected Indian officials in the US are Repubulicans in the Deep South, of all places : Bobby Jindal of LA and Nimrata Haley of SC. Both are only 37 years old.

    Like


  488. on September 15, 2009 at 12:17 am The Fifth Horseman

    Doug1 wrote :

    Of course if you can prove you family member’s IQ, ok.

    Cause that’s what matters for a productive modern society. That and creative, inventive and creatively destructive juice, which does involve the right mix of testosterone aggression.

    Then you will be extremely pleased to know that the family-based immigration of Indians has ensured that high-IQ people are coming here. Indian-American income is still staying solidly at a 50% premium vs. the national average, with no signs of convergence.

    You will be extremely hard pressed to ever find a US-born Indian kid over 22 who does not have a bachelor’s degree (that too in a real field, rather than some SWPL field). Now what other group of US-born kids has a near-100% bachelor’s degree attainment rate?

    This should make you happy, should it not?

    Like


  489. The Fifth Horseman

    As far as immigrants go, yeah the type you advocate, largely s. Asian elites (your people who who exclusively and egocentrically advocate) and NE Asians, are the way to go.

    But I still don’t want a swamping number of immigrants.

    Because this is our country. We built and made it, you didn’t. You can contribute but I don’t want you swamping.

    The notion that this is a “proposition nation” is a Jewish cultural Marxist concept. It’s crap. There is some truth to it but only some. Our liberalism has become disfunctional in it’s extremes.

    Like


  490. Doug1:

    What makes you think this is “your” country? Looking at it objectively, its more the Jews’ country than yours. They have more power, more money, more influence. Face reality: the culture war ended long ago, and your side lost. Your enemies are in control. You don’t have a country.

    Like


  491. on September 15, 2009 at 1:20 am The Fifth Horseman

    But I still don’t want a swamping number of immigrants.

    Indians and Chinese are each about 1% of the US population. So their number is dwarfed by the number of Mexican illegals. No chance of Asians ‘swamping’ anything.

    Because this is our country. We built and made it, you didn’t.

    Define ‘we’. Most white people in the US date back to ancestry no earlier than 1890. Very few whites can demonstrate ancestry in the US back to 1776 or earlier. And do black people, who were here long before 1890 (in many cases before 1776) the ‘we’? This, conversely, is the best argument against black claims of reparations from whites, as most whites came here only well after slavery ended.

    So is the ‘we’ based on race? Or duration of ancestry in America (which would put most non-WASP whites later in chronology than blacks)? Which is it?

    Sorry, but a US Citizen is a US Citizen. Period. America was never chartered to be a white-only nation. If it were, non-whites would not be granted US citizenship.

    Like


  492. Breeze

    Come on. You must have heard the story about how Australia was used as a place for the Brits to dump the contents of their jails back in the old days.

    Like


  493. PA

    I did not do a very good job connecting the triumph of S. Boyles with the American Experience.
    I was thinking of the fact that America has always attracted misfits with non-standard brain-wiring who nonetheless thought they could be famous and important if “They just got the chance.” Which were the words, more or less, that S. Boyle used to introduce herself to the Talent Show.
    It struck me at the time as being so profoundly American.
    She had not fit in very well in ordinary life. So, what to do? It is obvious… Go on stage in front of millions of people and become a Star.
    Or – I do not fit into village life so – get on a leaky wooden boat and make a trip across the Atlantic to make a fresh start in a howling wilderness.
    Not everybody in the world has thought this way. A lot of the ones who have ended up in the USA.
    I predict that S. Boyle will be VERY popular over here.

    Like


  494. clarice:

    I’ve already said this before, but I’ll say it again. MacDonald’s goal is not necessarily to write a “coherent intellectual history of Leftism.” I quoted extensively above from the preface of CoC. Go and read it. There MacDonald explicitly states the object of his inquiry. It’s not simply “Leftism” or any field or movement that happens to involve Jews.

    I have read your posts carefully, and I also read that CofC preface a while ago. You seem to be the one who isn’t getting my essential point. To state it as simply as possible: if you want to judge the actual relevance of the facts that MacDonald documents in the intellectual and political history of leftism, you do have to have at least a rough picture of the overall history of leftism. Otherwise, there’s no way you can logically justify any conclusions as broad and general as his. Just like, for example, the raw numbers about the output and revenue of a certain company don’t tell you anything about its market share and industry impact until you have at least rough numbers about the size of the entire industry. It’s as simple as that.

    I’m not “exaggerating and misrepresenting his positions” regarding Israel and Palestine. There are four propositions, all of them true: 1) Moldbug denies any coordinated Jewish activity in the US. 2) He did say that the “Palestinian Lobby” has greater cultural/political power than AIPAC. […]

    From what I remember, it’s true that MM wrote (2), but I also completely agree with him that (2) is an obvious fact. As for (1), you’re fantasizing. I’m not MM’s attorney, so I’m not going to bother writing rebuttals to your inventions and misrepresentations; anyone can look up his writings and judge for himself. Even if he is downplaying the role of Jewish intellectuals and organizations in contemporary politics and intellectual history, he’s certainly not doing it in such a crude and silly manner.

    As for the truth of proposition (2), it has always seemed obvious to me, and I have explained at length why this is so in one of my above comments. My views on this matter have nothing to do with MM. If you read my previous comments, you’ll see that I base them on what I’ve seen when it comes to the U.S. foreign policy in my own home country and comparing it with the situation in the Middle East. As a Croat, I have seen what it looks like when a country is fighting with total American support like Croatia did in 1995, and it’s a blatant fact that Israel isn’t getting anything resembling such support from the U.S.

    Like all people with similar attitudes, you are unable to answer two very simple questions. First, Israelis obviously have the military capability to solve all their problems in the present conflict with brute force, so why don’t they just do it? What are they afraid of that Croatians didn’t have to fear in 1995, if the U.S. is standing behind them too? Second, if Jews are really such masters of intellectual subversion in the service of their ethnic group as MacDonald claims, why is the Israeli (and diaspora Jewish) Left so self-hating and anti-Israel, often to a suicidal point? MacDonald’s and similar theories simply cannot explain away these giant elephants in the room.

    You’re not impressing anybody by aping Moldbug and citing old books to appear erudite.

    And yet, I have read MacDonald, among many other authors — whereas you don’t seem to have read much besides him when it comes to non-liberal perspectives on history, particularly the history of ideas. Whether or not you like what I write, I honestly advise you to try broadening your horizons. Read, for example, Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn, Joseph de Maistre, Max Stirner, Oswald Spengler, Murray Rothbard, Paul Gottfried… None of these authors will provide you with one true key to history and philosophy, and the quality of their writing varies greatly; with some, it takes effort to separate the gems of lucidity from the general wackiness. However, you will see that even if you keep insisting on your Jewish fixation, there’s a whole world out there that you’re not aware even exists, and many issues we’re concerned with today have their roots in people that lived and things that happened long before anything that could conceivably be explained by MacDonaldesque theories.

    Like


  495. PA:

    You may find this extremely strange.I had just been thinking the same thing and for some reason I accidently ended up on this blog(1st time) and read what you had to say. I know a number of Russian women, mostly college girls(I’m much older) and I was just thinking how compared to US and even W European females that there was something different about their bodies (almost always slim when young and even when older) but even compared to a slim American girl the Eastern European girls always seem to have slim thighs and from their ass to their upper thigh always seems so smooth without that typical crease you see even in slim US females.Of course this is a generalisation but it’s common enough to be noticeable. I think what got me thinking about this was reading about Taylor Swift who I really didn’t know but can see that she’s from some country area of Penn. after looking up who she was. She sort of reminds me of a typical E European girl.

    http://www.cmt.com/pictures/taylor-swift/photo-gallery/2389485/4253062/artist_photo.jhtml

    Try not to look at the one on the left lol

    Like


  496. TFH makes some powerful comments in relation to this “We” question on what constitutes an American citizen. And of course, he rightly shines a big ole light on the elephant in the room-do Blacks “count” as “we”? If not, why, given our very long history here in the USA? And, why should MOST Whites, who can’t document their history here past the late 1890s, be considered a part of the “we” before someone like me? What’s up with that?

    Personally, the Indian people have a friend in me-I’ve studied their culture and ways, their history and astrology. I have a deep respect for all of it, and many of them are often taken aback by my in-depth knowledge of these things. Of course, they’re very polite in their surprise at my interest in Indian life, but the shock itself is quite indicative of just how far and deep the notion of the Dumb Nigga is, not just here at home but abroad as well. Black folks, especially proles like me, aren’t supposed to know much about the Gupta Dynasty and his court of “Nine Gems”.

    So, when discussions come up that seeks to examine who “we” are, like TFH, I often ask what makes one a member of the “we”. It would appear, if Doug1 is any indication, a prerequisite to being a member of “we” starts with the color of your skin.

    The more things change, the more they stay the same.

    Hmm.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  497. Doug

    thanks LOL

    i do have to clarify something though. i have been a troll for like 10 years now and i really love messing around with obsidian and nicole. i am the terror of that little game lobby you helped me out in that day and let no female shaming word or liberal trope go unanswered in the harshest of terms.

    i do NOT hate black people. at all. but i do KNOW them, intimately, as a life long resident of philadelphia and graduate of one of its public schools and i will NOT have my reality denied by a pack of abject lies.

    i hate 1) lies and 2) leftists

    i call myself a “racist” and an “anti semite” and a “misogynist” because the definition of all those terms have devolved solely into “says things about (blacks, jews, women) they don’t like”. under that definition i will always be considered some form of -ist, because the truth as i see it is the truth, whether its about me, you or obsidian, blacks, jews or women, whites, the yanomama or the icky icky canadians (feh). everyone has read my unflinching critiques of women andmy own admissions of atrocious female behavior when young, why would i be unstinting about blacks or jews? sometimes talking to blacks on the interweb is exactly like talking to a 37 year old women about “the wall”.

    if anyone actually bothered to read my many exchanges with obsidian, which obsidian certainly did NOT, i have stated that blacks are as american as apple pie. i do not wish to see them harmed, do not believe in a state strong enough to round them up and deport them and know full well that the US can NOT be at its best while they are flagging. i have many many caring and constructive opinions on how black people can succeed and enter into the full bounty of western culture irrespective of the bell curve.

    BUT as long as i am told that any belief i hold WRT to them that isn’t what THEY want me to believe is racist, well, i must be a racist then, it’s that simple.

    Like


  498. 5Horseman make the blank-canvas fallacy with regards to what America is. He promotes the idea that America is defined as a come on over free-for-all. As long as you have the requisite IQ, or whatever.

    But that’s not what America is. As I’ve written before, America is not an abstraction, a “work in progress,” a mere “land of opportunity,” or an empty bucket for exsanguinous outsiders to fill.

    America is like every other country on earth, defined by its people, land, and history. Notice that I included “people” in that list. People means faces of a certain appearance and cultural norms. Replace one “people” with another, and you kill the country formarly known as America.

    And what is America’s people? it’s what I said before: a nation that’s about 85% white (mostly Anglo saxon), 12% slave-descendant black, and 3% other. Almost everyone is Christian, and everyone speaks English. I may even be amenable to this 3% “other” to broadening a bit with including more Asians, especially East Asians.

    And what 5H is doing, is promoting this legitimate 3% “other” to become much bigger than 3%. Why, I guess because he is of Indian descent and through attachemnts of blood and history, is motivated to promote the Indian nation, including its burgeoning diasporization in North America.

    As I told him before, people like him, in small numbers, ae an asset to this country, because America has a bit more flexibility with regards to its bloodlines than, say, Finland, here even one Somali resident is one too many.

    But if you were to take Horseman’s prescriptions for a virtually unlimited flow of Indians (over a certain IQ level, say) into America, they you would in effect kill this country by redefining it out of existance. You kill America and render its 300 million citizens men without a country.

    What makes Boston or Houston American cities is the kinds of faces you see on its streets. Just like Indian faces make Calcutta or Delhi Indian cities.

    One more thing I want to stress is that 5Horseman has expressed very strongly-worded statements of disdaiin about Mestizo / Latin Americansd, who are today’s biggest immigrant group, and called for a cessation of their inflow (in favor of Indians, natch). Alas for him, these Latin Americans, as descendants of indigeneous Indios and setter Spaniards, have more of a “claim” on this land than he does.

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  499. Aww, your displays of crocodile tears are quite touching, Dana. Didn’t know you had it in ya. 😉

    The Obsidian

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  500. PA,
    If I may, I’d like to take TFH off the table, because I think I make a far more compelling argument and personal testiomony, than he does for purposes of this discussion.

    PA, am I part of the “we” that you and Doug1 speaks of when it comes to determining who is and who is not, an American? If so/not, why? I argue emphatically YES, not only that but in many ways, a lot more than YOU, and most Whites reading this, not only of my family roots in this land, but because of our specifical and unique journey in this land. As we’ve discussed before wrt American popular Culture, the Black contirbution has been and remains key-without it, America just wouldn’t have a pop culture.

    Looking forward to your response.

    O

    Like


  501. Obsidian, look at what I wrote. I included “12% slave-descended black” among the “We.”

    Like


  502. without it, America just wouldn’t have a pop culture

    An exaggeration. Scotch-Irish settlers brought a rich tradition of folk music with them, which over time evolved to what we now know as Country Music and some styles of Rock.

    Black styles added in measured amounts to the Scotch-Irish music became rock music via Elvis et al.

    Like


  503. why do we get truly anti-semitic Jews like Dana and HBD-fanatcis like Half Sigma, considering that HBD is fuel for the most anti-semitic force that has ever existed, the White Christian Paleo-Right?

    beacuse there is a bell curve for Jews. As Jewish induced mass-immigration floods America and Americans realize that they have imported Hugo Chavez electoral base, many start to feel the heat In the form of higher taxes/worsening public services, higher crime and the ever increasing presence of angry NAMs around you. Also, as the American income distribution Brazilianyzes, failing to reach the higher echelons of income distribution becomes harder and harder and generates more and more frustration (see: Half Sigma and Lucifer for the losers, Seeking Alpha for the winners)

    Like


  504. why will a Brazilianyzed-America be worse than Brazil? Because 500 years of racial mixing may have turned the people ugly, but also lessened NAM-anger and effectively eliminated it in many places.

    Like


  505. lastly, why do we get someone like Seeking Alpha, who last week made a wish that Brazil elected Hugo Chavez while at the same he is an enthusiast for the immigration of all Venezuelan/Mexican/Guatemalan barrios to the U.S., those very same barrios who would vote 85-15 for Chavez?

    it is the same level of cognitive dissonance witnessed among diaspora x Israeli Jews.

    Since I work in exactly the same industry as him, I can safely say that we make so much more money than people of our age that it effectively shields us from any consequence of NAM disfunctionality.

    Like


  506. i have many many caring and constructive opinions on how black people can succeed and enter into the full bounty of western culture irrespective of the bell curve

    I’ll take your bait and demand to hear these opinions. Mind you, I’ll be dismissive of them from the start since nothing can really overcome a 1 SD deviation from whites.

    America is like every other country on earth, defined by its people, land, and history.

    The problem that I generally I have with that concept is that America isn’t a land where the native people constructed it, but it was a bunch of foreigners that built the entire country and allowed other foreigners into the nation. It’s not an nation with a state, but it’s a multi-ethnic state for all intents and purposes and one of the few in the world where the vast majority of the citizenry have adopted the ideal that they’re going to share the nation with those of a different ethnic group from the beginning.

    In other words, your notion of America as this fixed population is basically an affront to me, and basically a proxy for “we don’t want your kind here and go leave”.

    Like


  507. Because 500 years of racial mixing may have turned the people ugly, but also lessened NAM-anger and effectively eliminated it in many places.

    Conspiracy Theory: Is the effort of the elite to promote interracial relationships an attempt to emulate the effects of race mixing on the Brazilian people?

    Like


  508. PA,
    We’ve talked about this before. Dolly Parton would in all likelihood hail from the Scots-Irish Appalachian roots of which you speak, wrt Country Music. Yet it took a Blac singer in Whitney Houston to make her “I’ll Always Love You” into one of the biggest singles ever in the history of recorded music.
    Please name me the White vesions of the following:

    Louis Armstrong
    Miles Davis
    Duke Ellington
    James Brown
    Prince
    Stevie Wonder
    Ray Charles
    Billie Holliday
    Ella Fitzgerald
    Sammy Davis Jr (who was truly underrated in terms of the Rat Pack-he had more talent than ALL of them combined)
    Bo Diddly

    Please remember, the Banjo was a distinctively African instrument. Country music heavily relies on this. There are other clearly defined African roots to Country Music.

    Same deal with Rock. And guys like Jim Morrison, Robert Plant and Mick Jagger would tell you so.

    So again, PA-without Black folk there’d be no pop culture, not in any recognizable way we know it today. Moreover, the question remains-are Black folks, Americans, or not? It’s a yes or no question, sir.

    Thanks.:)

    O

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  509. The Fifth Horseman

    Very few whites can demonstrate ancestry in the US back to 1776 or earlier.

    That’s simply untrue.

    As well I certainly can.

    Like


  510. Obsidian

    And, why should MOST Whites, who can’t document their history here past the late 1890s,

    That’s simply untrue.

    Like


  511. Dana–

    i call myself a “racist” and an “anti semite” and a “misogynist” because the definition of all those terms have devolved solely into “says things about (blacks, jews, women) they don’t like”.

    It’s certainly true that the left with the PC mainstrain tagging along behind, has vastly expanded the definition of all of those things.

    “Racist” for example used to be restricted to hate filled bigots who believed that all or virtually all black people were dumb and without self restraint, or “child like”. It was not extended to people who thought that blacks might be on average less intelligent. Now it is. Despite the fact that there’s overwhelming scientific evidence showing that that’s the case (particularly the former which is more studied), as well as the everyday experience of people. In fact simply believing that blacks are less intelligent on average for largely cultural reasons is considered racist by leftists. PC demands quite literally 1984 doublethink on this and a number of other issues.

    Like


  512. on September 15, 2009 at 1:08 pm SAW: South Asian Woman

    ME: But Doug 1, without our families we would be no better than you.

    Our strong culture of family values is what makes us so damn good.

    Without that, we would be just as useless as the typical white or black American.

    DOUG 1: Tough. Then don’t come here.

    Of course if you can prove you family member’s IQ, ok.

    Cause that’s what matters for a productive modern society. That and creative, inventive and creatively destructive juice, which does involve the right mix of testosterone aggression.

    …………………………………………..

    You missed the point.

    We are good — high IQs, productive, creative, solid work ethic, etc, precisely BECAUSE of our tight, in-tact family networks.

    Its this family bond that pushes us to excel.

    If we were to distance ourselves from our families and shack up with our penis/gina tingles like you do, we would be just as useless as you.

    When South Asians stop bringing their families over here, and instead shack up with immoral white and black Americans, that is when our production and creativity will go down hill.

    So bringing over mom/dad, sis/bro, and the grandparents is good for us AND good for America.

    Like


  513. Obsidian–

    So again, PA-without Black folk there’d be no pop culture, not in any recognizable way we know it today.

    Utter rubbish. It would simply be different. No it wouldn’t all be country music either. I’m sure rock would have developed though perhaps a bit differently. Besides it’s a small world. We wouldn’t have to have a huge African American population ourselves to be influenced by e.g. Afro Caribbean music, including reggae, etc.

    Like


  514. South Asian Woman

    If we were to distance ourselves from our families and shack up with our penis/gina tingles like you do, we would be just as useless as you.

    I’m far from useless, nor are my countrymen. We built this place without you lot. Such that you wanted to come here, and flee the teeming poverty by and large of you native, heavily socialist, world beatingly bureaucracy choked land. India.

    Like


  515. So bringing over mom/dad, sis/bro, and the grandparents is good for us AND good for America.

    Population Replacement is as good for America as a family from down the street pushing SAW’s mom/dad, sis/bro out of their home and making themselves comfy in her living room.

    The damn arrognace. It’s time to start negging the NAM/3rd world again. They’re begging for it. Like Megan Fox.

    [editor: lol. i agree. “hey do you mind if i set up shop in your bathroom? i’ve gotta deuce the size of chicago turtling right now. it’ll be good for your home.]

    Like


  516. I bet that if Lucifer and South Asian Women had a son, it would David Alexander

    Like


  517. For Doug1,
    While we’re waiting for PA’s reply to my questions, since you’re so brighteyed and bushytailed, I’ll repost it for you, dear sir:

    PA,
    We’ve talked about this before. Dolly Parton would in all likelihood hail from the Scots-Irish Appalachian roots of which you speak, wrt Country Music. Yet it took a Blac singer in Whitney Houston to make her “I’ll Always Love You” into one of the biggest singles ever in the history of recorded music.
    Please name me the White vesions of the following:

    Louis Armstrong
    Miles Davis
    Duke Ellington
    James Brown
    Prince
    Stevie Wonder
    Ray Charles
    Billie Holliday
    Ella Fitzgerald
    Sammy Davis Jr (who was truly underrated in terms of the Rat Pack-he had more talent than ALL of them combined)
    Bo Diddly

    Please remember, the Banjo was a distinctively African instrument. Country music heavily relies on this. There are other clearly defined African roots to Country Music.

    Same deal with Rock. And guys like Jim Morrison, Robert Plant and Mick Jagger would tell you so.

    Doug1-your direct, point for point response?

    The Obsidian

    Like


  518. Obsidian

    It would appear, if Doug1 is any indication, a prerequisite to being a member of “we” starts with the color of your skin.

    There is no doubt that African American are Americans.

    So are all citizens. I have a real problem with the Supreme’s decision that anyone born here even of illegal aliens or those on student visas etc. automatically becomes a citizen, and think that should be overturned. So no, I don’t really consider “anchor babies” citizens, but those who become citizens and the children of legal citizens including the naturally version are all full American citizens in my view, not just legally.

    Existing American citizens also have the right to more effectively control illegal immigration, and for that matter to allow whatever amount of legal immigration with whatever requirements they desire. The large majority of Americans do want effective steps against illegal immigration and more would want it and be more militant about it if the mass media, particularly TV, wasn’t effectively heavily censored on the subject by leftist mediated PC. The whole notion that immigration restriction is “racist” and therefor unspeakably evil.

    I think first of all it’s insanity to allow in mass numbers of immigrants whose children and perhaps themselves will then get affirmative action. It’s unspeakably dumb and wrong.

    Like


  519. SAW

    So bringing over mom/dad, sis/bro, and the grandparents is good for us AND good for America.

    It most certainly is not. We should adopt a Canadian system of immigration.

    As well moms and dads are often placed on social security and medicare despite having not paid into the system at all or only for a tiny period largely to qualify.

    Like


  520. Doug1,
    Yes, we agree 100% on getting a handle on the borders and doing all we can to send illegals back home. For me, its a simple matter of national security and fairness to tose around the world who play by the rules to get here. Simple as that.

    O

    Like


  521. Obsidian-

    It’s total bs to talk about race as being just about the color of one’s skin. It’s much more than that even simply genetically, as you well know.

    As well race and culture are nearly always bound together. Hence “ethnicites”. Though the manner in which culture operates is a very complex issue. We all have various cultural influences.

    Like


  522. Obsidian,
    Why don’t you STFU? Seems every forum I go on there’s always some “educated” black with “points to prove”…either that the Egyptians were black, that IQ scores don’t mean blacks are dumber, or you trying to prove “uhh wimmins love da black cock” but don’t even have the balls to say what you want because you know you’ll be seen for what you are.

    Mostly though it’s your tedious, petty back-and-forth spamming the comments section…really do you think we log on here to see blacks with aff-act degrees prove a point with pages of “argumentation”??

    Fuck off.

    Like


  523. Several contradictions in what Doug1 and PA said.

    First, Doug1’s contradictions : First, he said :

    Because this is our country. We built and made it, you didn’t.

    But then he says :

    There is no doubt that African American are Americans.

    So are all citizens.

    Aha! So not just naturalized citizens, but especially US-born citizens are ‘Americans’. So his first statement about the ‘we’ (i.e. white) being Americans vs. US-born Asians not being, is contradicted by his second statement.

    Doug1 also wrote :

    We should adopt a Canadian system of immigration.

    Yes, but this is specifically what PA does not want. PA does not want a merit-based policy. He wants a whites-only policy.

    Now, on to PA. First he says :

    He promotes the idea that America is defined as a come on over free-for-all. As long as you have the requisite IQ, or whatever.

    Yes. I think US immigration policy should be one of unlimited immigration for all highly-skilled immigrants. This includes Indian, Chinese, Eastern European, Russian, and the Ghanaian and Senegalese black PhD students. Drain the brains of other countries for US benefit. Simultaneously, all unskilled immigration (Mexicans, Guatemalans) should be blocked.

    So a totally merit-based, race-blind policy. Is that perfectly clear?

    This, frankly, is the only thing that can save America from upcoming demographic and economic challenges.

    But then PA says :

    And what 5H is doing, is promoting this legitimate 3% “other” to become much bigger than 3%. Why, I guess because he is of Indian descent and through attachemnts of blood and history, is motivated to promote the Indian nation,

    Bullshit, PA, and shame on you. By your own admission, I advocate a race-blind merit-based immigration policy, yet now are claiming (based on no evidence at all), that I want to overrun America with Indians.

    PA, are you born in the US? If not, that means that I am eligible to be President of the US, and you are not. I would also be eligible for CIA jobs that you would not be eligible for. So by law, I am more American than you.

    In fact, you calling yourself ‘Polish A’ reveals far more old-world sentiment in you, than in me. Hence, your totally unsubstantiated assumptions about my goals are really a projection of your own racial xenophobia.

    PA goes on to lie :

    who are today’s biggest immigrant group, and called for a cessation of their inflow (in favor of Indians, natch).

    More bullshit. I suppose you don’t know the difference between LEGAL and ILLEGAL immigration.

    Those latinos who are highly skilled should be brought here in unlimited quantities. That is my position, and it has never changed. PA’s attempt to claim that my position is entirely different from what it is, is evidence of having no proper arguments for his dreams of a white-only America (that grudgingly accepts blacks only because they were here long before many whites).

    It appears PA cannot accept that others may not be as race-centric as he. He cannot believe that someone can be a merit-first, race-neutral person, which is the true spirit of America. Hence, PA has not grasped the ideals of America.

    What makes Boston or Houston American cities is the kinds of faces you see on its streets. Just like Indian faces make Calcutta or Delhi Indian cities.

    PA is applying Eastern European race-centric ideals to America. That is not what America is about, but he, as an immigrant, hasn’t figured that out yet.

    So, from these Doug1 and PA episodes, we can conclude the following (which I am sure Obsidian has noticed as well) :

    1) Some whites unfortunately think of a ‘we’ as being white only. Only later, do they quickly recant to include the 12% that are slavery-descended blacks, upon being told that blacks have been here longer than most whites.

    2) Some whites (whether for generation reasons, as with Doug1, or coming from countries where whites are a lot more racist than American whites, as with PA) think that all non-whites are monolithic.

    This makes PA just about the same as Lucifer. Both are extremists, and I approve of neither one of them. The reason PA and Lucifer tangle so often is because they are so similar. Lucifer being irrationally anti-white and PA being just as irrationally pro-white.

    Like


  524. on September 15, 2009 at 5:41 pm The Fifth Horseman

    David Alexander wrote :

    The problem that I generally I have with that concept is that America isn’t a land where the native people constructed it, but it was a bunch of foreigners that built the entire country and allowed other foreigners into the nation.

    Yes, DA get’s it, while PA doesn’t.

    Anyone who is a US citizen becomes an American, regardless of race. This is what makes America unique.

    This is not true of other countries. One can be Polish by having Polish parents, no other way. One can be Japanese by having Japanese parents.

    America’s uniqueness is its merit-based race-neutral ideals, which should be applied to immigration. America should allow unlimited immigration for all people with a Bachelor’s degree from a known university in their country (a list of which should be on the INS/DHS website). America should simultaneously block all unskilled immigration.

    Sure, this would result in an overweight of Asians and underweight of Mexicans, as it should. But the well-educated Latinos, as well as black Ghanaian and Senegalese PhD students, should be let in easily.

    This is sort of what Canada does (which Doug1 claims to advocate). But PA really doesn’t ‘get it’ about what America’s ideals are.

    Like


  525. The Fifth Horseman–

    I agree generally with your method of choosing between immigrants but not at all with you calling for unlimited immigration.

    America should allow unlimited immigration for all people with a Bachelor’s degree from a known university in their country (a list of which should be on the INS/DHS website).

    So we should let in 300 million immigrants over ten years then, 30 million plus, if that many batchelors degree holders wanted to come?

    No thank you.

    I want to retain the culture of this country, not have it swamped. I don’t want to retain it in a static unchanging way. I do want it leavened by other cultural influences from a healthy swath of immigrants – especially immigrants who can compete.

    Your proposal for unlimited legal immigration would be /is massively unpopular and would never pass Congress these days.

    The only reason why illegal immigration isn’t more effectively stopped is because of hugely censorious and heavily shaming reporting in the media around the meme or “racism”. It’s a significantly Jewish lead elite thing to keep measures against illegal immigration ineffective, to damp down popular anger and feelings against it, and to make verboten any talk of mass deportation. Which we did e.g. in the Eisenhower administration.

    Like


  526. Anyone who is a US citizen becomes an American, regardless of race. This is what makes America unique.

    nyet, kamerad

    everyone who came to the Soviet Union could become a Soviet citizen. British traitors, Polish collaborators, African students, Latin American guerrillas. The only difference between the USSR and the USA is that no one wanted to enjoy the first´s hospitality

    Like


  527. 5th Horseman: Just to be clear that PA = Pennsylvania.

    Like


  528. PA is not an American!

    Like


  529. 30 million per year

    Like


  530. Doug, I want you to charm those ladies in the Motor Vehicles. I know you have it in you. Don’t become flustered, game her and please please please post your story here.

    Like


  531. Doug, I want you to charm those ladies in the Motor Vehicles.

    Who might these “ladies” you are referring to be?

    Like


  532. Amish gang fight:

    Like


  533. @bhetti- The ladies who work at the MVA. I know doug has the alpha charm so I want him to use it on the hardest women around. His story could help the young men with iceberg game.

    Like


  534. on September 15, 2009 at 7:37 pm The Fifth Horseman

    Doug1,

    I agree generally with your method of choosing between immigrants but not at all with you calling for unlimited immigration.

    In theory, the ‘unlimited’ word sounds scary, but in practice, that *still* would not amount to more than 1 million a year of accredited Bachelor’degree immigrants.

    There just aren’t that many of those in the rest of the world. Despite the vast population of the Asian continent, we *still* would only get 1 million a year, which is already less than the number of illegal Mexicans a year (which again, should be block totally).

    So if you agree to a cap of 1 million a year, the outcome would be the same as ‘unlimited’ as long as a 4-year Bach. degree can be demonstrated.

    I want to retain the culture of this country, not have it swamped.

    Understandable, but the biggest threat to that is the displacement of ‘Greatest Generation’ culture with modern SWPL culture, and the low white birth rates due to disastrous divorce laws. If you take a step back, family-oriented Asians are a better approximation of the ‘Greatest Generation’ than modern SWPL feminism, if given a choice between the two.

    I am a GOP voter, high income taxpayer, and just as much against feminist divorce laws as you. So who really preserves the fabric of American culture, me or some SWPL feminist? That is why I am not opposed to Islamic immigration into the US if they perform the important role of combating SWPL feminism.

    Your proposal for unlimited legal immigration would be /is massively unpopular and would never pass Congress these days.

    It still would be fewer coming in than today. My proposal would effectively be “block the 1.5 million/yr unskilled coming in, replace that with unlimited (still only 1 million/yr) of highly educated instead.”

    50% of Silicon Valley’s companies were started by immigrants – the very BEST immigrants. Yet, look at the wealth it has generated. I want to expand Silicon Valley’s formula to more parts of the economy, since highly educated immigrants pay taxes immediately, add to consumer spending, create other jobs, and commit no crimes. That is the idea.

    gig,

    America really is the only Western country where a non-white person can become President, through either party. There is no other Western country where this is possible.
    Two states in the deep South either have/or soon will have Indian-American Republican Governors (LA and SC) who are both only 37 years old. Imagine that. Truly, imagine that.

    Like


  535. on September 15, 2009 at 7:48 pm The Fifth Horseman

    So we should let in 300 million immigrants over ten years then, 30 million plus, if that many batchelors degree holders wanted to come?

    Doug1,

    Again, there aren’t that many produced per year in the rest of the world. Not by a long shot.

    ‘Unlimited’ immigrants with bachelor’s degrees would still be just 1 million/yr.

    Note that it takes $200,000 to educate an American from 1st grade up to completion of college. 1 million college grads from other countries would effectively be a $200 Billion subsidy into the US, educated at the expense of other countries.

    That is why Silicon Valley works. Companies with immigrants as founders/co-founders include Google, Sun Microsystems, and Intel. Expand that model for economic benefit.

    And yes, this is far less of a threat to US culture than homegrown SWPL feminism/leftism.

    Like


  536. on September 15, 2009 at 7:52 pm The Fifth Horseman

    PA is not an American!

    I know. He is not eligible to be President, but I am (in theory).

    I do notice that many Europeans have a mental block about what it means to be ‘American’. For one thing, they refer to white Americans as ‘Americans’ but black Americans as ‘blacks’, as in blacks being distinct from ‘Americans’. When called on it, they recant, but their first response reveals what they really think an American is vs. is not.

    Europeans truly don’t get what America is about, because they can’t separate nations from ethnicity.

    Like


  537. A couple of comments:

    – you let in one Indian immigrant, and he’ll agitate to let in 1 million Indians a year

    – If India is so full of those awesome brainiacs, then why do they need to come to the US? can’t their do their smart high-IQ india thing in India?

    – Contrary to 5H’s hysterics, I am not a “pro-white” extremist in the sense that I am an outlier among Americans. My views, as I express them here, are milder than an average white American’s private thoughts on the matter of race.

    – An average white American would rather his daughter marry a West Virginia coal miner’s son than Bobby Jinda’s hypothetical younger brother. Because he wants his grandchildren to look like they are his and not adopted by Angelina Jolie.

    – [to David Alexander] you endlessly talk about not finding black women attractive and not liking black culture in general; so why do you promote black immigration?

    – When India starts taking in millions of Ukrainians, Nigerians, Arabs, Americans and Australian Aboriginies, then talk to me about America needing to take in millions of non-whites.

    Like


  538. my experience with Europeans has been different. They refer to me as an American first and foremost without ever mentioning my blkness. Then again, I’ve conversed with Western Europeans for the most part. Eastern Euro men, usually catcall and chic noir promptly runs away.

    Like


  539. – when 5Horseman tells Doug1 that millions of fecund Asians are here to outbreed the “low birthrate whites” he is basically saying “fuck you Doug; your time is up; our turn to populate the mothafucka now.” Plus he is lying, because white birthrates are presently at or a hair under replacement.

    – notice the disrespectful little fuck telling Doug that SWPL = America.

    Like


  540. @PA- my experience with Europeans has been different. They refer to me as an American first and foremost without ever mentioning my blkness. Then again, I’ve conversed with Western Europeans for the most part. Eastern Euro men, usually catcall and chic noir promptly runs away.

    I just read bits and pieces of the argument from all parties. It’s one of those arguments that is a constant around these parts. I can tell each of you your stance on the issue since most of you post something on the topic once a week.

    it just irks me that speak for white Americans as if you are one or even an American period. Your son may grow up to be an American but for sure, your grandson will be an American.

    Like


  541. @tood- give up pal, their minds are made up. No amount of phalating, reasoning or misquoting will change their opinions. They don’t want to see more of you around.

    Keep in mind that while you may be caucasian but to them you ain’t white.

    Like


  542. Five Horsemen

    50% of Silicon Valley’s companies were started by immigrants

    By market value? I seriously doubt that.

    Back it up. Or stand down.

    Like


  543. on September 15, 2009 at 8:56 pm The Fifth Horseman

    If India is so full of those awesome brainiacs, then why do they need to come to the US?

    The same reason Americans (like me) allow Eastern European immigrants (like you) to come here. America is better from having Andy Grove and Sergey Brin, just as America is better from having Vinod Khosla and the parents of Bobby Jindal.

    You really know far too little about America, PA.

    he is basically saying “fuck you Doug; your time is up; our turn to populate the mothafucka now.”

    That would be Lucifer, not me. And you are more similar to Lucifer than you realize. That is why the two of you tangle with each other the most.

    Although I’ll save my sperm donor stories for when I really want to piss you off :):)

    I spent my childhood in a totally white suburb in Ohio. I never had a racist experience even from other white kids. That white Ohioans had such a chance to mistreat me, and did not, won them my loyalty.

    Polock jokes were common, however, which I did not understand at the time. It was due to the large Polish population in Cleveland.

    I am actually one of the only colored people who actually defends white people from false charges of ‘racism’. I am the last person you should alienate, but then again, you are far more interested in being ‘white’ than being ‘American’.

    are milder than an average white American’s private thoughts on the matter of race.

    Wrong again – see the above about Ohio. For every Eastern European who says US-born non-whites are not American, there are 10 who would beat him down for that.

    Again, PA totally mistates my position, which is a demonstration of incredible cowardice and projection. He can’t accept that some people are merit-based and race-blind. Because that would show that some people (gasp, COLORED people) are more enlightend than he.

    My position, no matter how much immigrant PA wants to distort it is :

    There should be free, unlimited immigration (which would be about 1 million a year) of highly educated immigrants. No matter where they came from, whether Russia, China, India, Colombia, Ghana, Senegal, etc. The reason for Silicon Valley’s success (where 50% of all ventures are started by immigrants) should expand to other parts of the US economy.

    At the same time, keep out all uneducated immigrants, no matter where they came from.

    It is quite simple. PA tries to distort that, because he cannot accept that someone would put merit ahead of race. Some Europeans have that mental block, totally unable to grasp what ‘America’ is about.

    Chic Noir :

    but to them you ain’t white.

    I am not white to me either, nor do I want to be. That is not what this is about. This is about whether non-whites are Americans, which PA seems to strangely claim that they are not, but at least 80% of white Americans would not deny.

    If you were, say, born here, but borne of Ethiopians who were not desendents of US slaves, PA (who is an immigrant) would say that ‘Chic Noir is not American’.

    Maybe he still thinks that given Chic Noir 75% Afr.Am/25% Eth mix. Maybe PA practices his own version of a one-drop rule.

    it just irks me that speak for white Americans as if you are one or even an American period.

    I know. That is quite arrogant on the part of an immigrant like PA, along the lines of “Pweeeaaaaase accept me! Pwweeeaassssee!! At least I am white, unlike the others! Pwwweaaaaasseee!!!!” All the white people I know, who are good friends of mind and invite me over for Thanksgiving, would disagree with his vision.

    Again, both I and Chic Noir are eligible to be President, while PA is not. That is in the US Constitution.

    So the Verdict is :

    Doug1 : He sort of sees my point about skilled immigrants, and his fear that ‘unlimited’ skilled immigration would change the country is an understandable one, except that I am here to statistically tell him that it still would be only 1 million/yr, less than the number of UNSKILLED ILLEGALS who come now.

    So if we officially cap the number at 1 million/yr (while blocking all unskilled immigrants), I think Doug1 and I are in agreement.

    PA : I used to like him, but his masked has slipped. He does not even want colored people who are McCain voters, like myself and Obsidian, to call themselves Americans (despite him being an immigrant).

    Grossly misrepresenting my clearly stated immigration position (merit-based, race blind) is a BIG no-no, and in doing so PA has shown himself to be far too much like Lucifer. PA is ‘white nationalist’ to the same degree that Lucifer is ‘anti-white’.

    Like


  544. tood Although I’ll save my sperm donor stories for when I really want to piss you off 🙂

    oh crap.

    Tell us now

    please

    Like


  545. said in announcer’s voice

    “and nominees for most likeable darkie are at château Roissy are:

    DA “I’m just a sub human blk”

    Chic noir ”why can’t we just get along”

    S – “but I’m only ¾ indian”

    Tood-“I am actually one of the only colored people who actually defends white people from false charges of ‘racism’. I am the last person you should alienate, but then again, you are far more interested in being ‘white’ than being ‘American’.”

    And the winner is ….

    Tood

    *tood screams like a girl + jazz hands, runs to the stage*

    Tood Maybe he still thinks that given Chic Noir 75% Afr.Am/25% Eth mix. Maybe PA practices his own version of a one-drop rule.

    Good memory you have their son.

    * gina tingles*

    You make chic noir’s heart melt that you could remember such a small thing about me.

    Like


  546. Tood know. That is quite arrogant on the part of an immigrant like PA, along the lines of “Pweeeaaaaase accept me! Pwweeeaassssee!! At least I am white, unlike the others! Pwwweaaaaasseee!!!

    My good man, I must say this is the very first time you and I agree on anything in these parts. This is 100% PA to the bone.

    I’m sure he heard all of those awful polish jokes as a teenager as well as being teased for having an accent. Let’s not forget his dark coloring, that could have well been another bone of contention. He was probably mistaken for everything but a white person. Those wounds left scars.

    why is this place so dead these days???

    Like


  547. Who gets to be a sperm-recipient?
    The first girl who passes out.
    Oops. That is too horrible. It can’t be true. Erase that.

    Like


  548. on September 15, 2009 at 9:56 pm The Fifth Horseman

    Doug1,

    Back it up. Or stand down.

    I see. Which means that if I can back it up, you will have to stand down.

    Very well.

    See Slide 3 here :

    52.4% of Silicon Valley Startups founded by immigrants.

    There are also graphs here, supporting the 52.4% for SV (and 44% in New York).

    Regarding market cap, 8 of the biggest (Intel, Google, eBay, Yahoo, Sun, Marvell, nVidia, and Juniper) had an immigrant among the key founders. The top VC firm, Kleiner Perkins, is also immigrant-heavy. The most common combo is an immigrant (such as PA) joining up with a US-born American (such as myself) to found a company.

    I like the sentence : “America should have tall fences, but big gates, with a high education being the price of admission”. I agree with table-pounding fervor, and this is totally race-blind as a policy. That people are opposing exactly what made America great, is economically ignorant.

    Like


  549. In Response to Chic Noir:

    System’s Philosophy…

    Gradients [for reference here: differences in action and intent — i.e. differences in opinion] are a byproduct of a growing social system.

    Gradients are caused by entropy [for reference here: chaos — novel and paradigm-shifting outside elements] being exported from external systems [for reference here: other blogs & internet communities] and breaking down solid patterns in their new system [for reference here: debate].

    Systems feed on gradients in order to remain adaptive and competitive against other systems within meta-systems [for reference here: blogosphere] in obtaining and utilizing information, resources and energy.

    So, really: This blog has become a bit solidified in patronage and perspective. While there is often fierce argument, it always seems to be the same essential messages regurgitated between the same two sides.

    For the blog to refresh itself and possibly grow, it’ll have to export a bit of entropy [for reference here: Roissy making a classically controversial post that gets mentioned on a blog/system with an entirely different focus] so as to receive a bit.

    Only then will you see the level of activity here that you hold nostalgia for.

    Like


  550. @ruby- I didn’t want to write it but it looks like I must.

    the end of château Roissy.

    Like


  551. you endlessly talk about not finding black women attractive and not liking black culture in general; so why do you promote black immigration?

    Je voudrais sauver les noirs.

    why is this place so dead these days???

    David Alexander works extra hours to build up his savings, finds other blogs where the women give him attention, and David went roadgeeking upstate today in a rented Hyundai Elantra…

    Like


  552. on September 15, 2009 at 10:18 pm The Fifth Horseman

    why is this place so dead these days???

    The quality-to-troll ratio has deteriorated.

    Everyone is waiting for Obsidian’s blog, for many reasons, one of which is to get a better quality-to-troll ratio.

    oh crap.

    Tell us now

    please

    The nuclear option will have to be saved for when/if PA really crosses the line me. That story will make him question his existence. I am not sufficiently offended yet to evoke the nuclear option. 🙂 🙂

    The sad thing is, I liked PA until yesterday.

    Rum asked :

    Who gets to be a sperm-recipient?

    It works the same way as a blood bank does, except that it is very hard to become a donor (1% acceptance rate).

    Usually single women/lesbians who want to be single moms, but with top male DNA, *or* (shudder) passive cuckolders, who want to cuckold their husband without actually interacting with another man with better DNA. I hope it is more of the former.

    Like


  553. I have a dog. He is part Border Collie, part Alaskan Malamute, part Timber Wolf. He has a very wide face and a huge head. Capitol T testosterone. He never barks without a good reason. He has ice-cold, pale blue eyes. He is gorgeous in his prime.
    At the dog-park he makes deadly serious lunges at poodles and other skank-dogs.
    Here where it gets interesting. The fat middle aged women there with their poodles clearly want their little poodle-foofoos to get bitten in half by a real dog. I can see it in their eyes.

    Like


  554. The Fifth Horseman

    I only regard European immigrants as quasi immigrants. The reason isn’t primarily racial but cultural. So that cuts out google.

    The biggest tech companies that have arisen within the last 400 years aren’t immigrant founded, much less non Euro immigrant founded. E.g. Microsoft, Oracle, Apple, Sun etc.

    As well as you yourself said:

    had an immigrant among the key founders. The top VC firm, Kleiner Perkins, is also immigrant-heavy. The most common combo is an immigrant (such as PA) joining up with a US-born American (such as myself) to found a company.

    Whether you like it or not PA brings a much more kindred culture with him. He also brings much hotter women with him that you Indians do, and ones more likely to fraternize with native American Euros. Like me. From ancient American times.

    None of this is to say that I dislike Indian Americans. I don’t at all. Really. Big contribution, generally speaking. Your arrogance just needs to be cut down some.

    Like


  555. 5H–

    Everyone is waiting for Obsidian’s blog, for many reasons, one of which is to get a better quality-to-troll ratio.

    Fool. You think it’s gonna get Roissy rivaling traffic?

    I predict it will get some initial curiosity bump, and then decline. Among non blacks anyway.

    Like


  556. within the last 400 years=>

    within the last 40 years.

    Obviously.

    Like


  557. tood Everyone is waiting for Obsidian’s blog, for many reasons, one of which is to get a better quality-to-troll ratio.

    A few of the females here have built up a fairly large following too.

    Like


  558. Chic Noir

    A few of the females here have built up a fairly large following too.

    Your implication is crap.

    Not just or primarily females. Many males too.

    There is a Roissysphere.

    Like


  559. A few of the females here have built up a fairly large following too.

    David Alexander commenting on your blog and saying you’re pretty (when it’s obviously true) in exchange for hearing “aww, you’re sweet” is not a following.

    Like


  560. on September 15, 2009 at 10:44 pm The Fifth Horseman

    Fool. You think it’s gonna get Roissy rivaling traffic?

    No. But the comment quality here has declined, and is almost never about the Game article initially posted. I predict that Obsidian’s blog, while lower in traffic, will be better for actual discussions of Game.

    I predict it will get some initial curiosity bump, and then decline. Among non blacks anyway.

    So none of his writings on Game are useful for non-blacks? You can’t be serious.

    And why did you start off with ‘Fool’? Did you read my 9:56 PM comment, where I was to back down if I could not provide support, but you are to back down if I could?
    I have provided meticulous data. So that, as they say, is that.

    Like


  561. doug 1 Your implication is crap.

    What is my implication? Please explain.

    Not just or primarily females. Many males too.

    There is a Roissysphere

    I regularly read chuck and A.J.’s blog so tell me of the other males who are apart of the roissysphere

    Like


  562. The sad thing is, I liked PA until yesterday.

    And I vaguely recall you being some guy who goes on about virtual sex or sexbots replacing women; whatever floats your boat. Your comments about feminism were all right but in your open-borders hissy fit and lying about my definition on americanness you came off as a yapping twit who gained himself a fanbase of one in Chic.

    Je voudrais sauver les noirs.

    Dites-leur d’être plus comme vous

    Like


  563. doug 1 Fool. You think it’s gonna get Roissy rivaling traffic?

    I predict it will get some initial curiosity bump, and then decline. Among non blacks anyway.

    What did tood write that got you so worked up??? I notice you get this way every so often. I swear it’s after you’ve had a few drinks.

    Like


  564. 5th Horseman, great posts. You’re right on the money about everything. You need to start a blog yourself.

    Like


  565. Obsidian has the intellignece, wit and power of observation to write a good blog but he would need to cut down on the verbosity and stop capitalizing common nouns.

    Like


  566. @PA- that’s his shtick.

    Like


  567. Dites-leur d’être plus comme vous

    Ils doivent devenir meilleur que moi.

    Like


  568. Chic

    I regularly read chuck and A.J.’s blog so tell me of the other males who are apart of the roissysphere

    there are I’d say around 10 such male Roissyshere blogs.

    At least. There are others that are less exclusively Roissysphere but which are being networked etc.

    Why should I bother to link them for you?

    Go find them yourself. It isn’t that hard.

    Like


  569. on September 15, 2009 at 11:13 pm The Fifth Horseman

    PA,

    Well, Roissy writes about Sexbots too :
    http://roissy.wordpress.com/2008/12/12/sexbotopia/
    http://roissy.wordpress.com/2008/10/07/sexbot-update/

    but in your open-borders hissy fit and lying about my definition on americanness

    You really have to grasp what the term ‘projection’ means, PA. I have been calm throughout, stating an economically grounded position clearly. It is you who threw an effete hissy fit and lied about what my position is multiple times(despite it being clearly stated in boldface type). My position is merit-based and race neutral. It appears you do not know what that means.

    Also, your position of what is American and what is not, is both absurd and un-American. You will have to defer to me on what constitutes being an American and what doesn’t.

    So what is your ‘definition of American-ness’?

    My fanbase is much more than one.

    Like


  570. Chic – Default, Ferdinand, Novaseeker. Thursday, Roosh, Gunny etc etc…

    Like


  571. David est manière à dur sur se

    Like


  572. on September 15, 2009 at 11:33 pm Comment_Whatever

    This place is as interesting as always. However, I need to make faster progress on the changes I want to make in real-life. So last week I decided to post a lot less until I’ve at least finished learning basic Portuguese and got my Resume-Website up and working. And hopefully three other projects further along.

    Focused I am not.

    But reading and posting in blogs adds yet another distraction, or two, and it’s all to much together. So no more blog spiked punch-bowl for a while.

    Até logo!

    Like


  573. on September 15, 2009 at 11:39 pm The Fifth Horseman

    PA,

    but in your open-borders hissy fit and lying about my definition on americanness

    You really have to grasp what the term ‘projection’ means, PA. I have been calm throughout, stating an economically grounded position clearly. It is you who threw an effete hissy fit and lied about what my position is multiple times(despite it being clearly stated in boldface type). My position is merit-based and race neutral. It appears you do not know what that means.

    Also, your position of what is American and what is not, is in fact un-American. You will have to defer to me on what constitutes being an American and what doesn’t.

    So what is your ‘definition of American-ness’?

    My fanbase is much more than one.

    Like


  574. on September 15, 2009 at 11:45 pm The Fifth Horseman

    Chic Noir asked :

    What did tood write that got you so worked up???

    He gambled that I could not provide solid data to my claim that 50% of Silicon Valley startups are founded by immigrants. Our bargain was if I cannot provide it, I would back down, and if I could, he would.

    In my 9:56 PM post, I provided the needed data.

    He hasn’t commented on that topic since. That is OK, no need to rub it in…. At least Doug1 will re-assess an opinion when provided with facts, unlike PA.

    But I do want the witnesses here to remember the proof provided, for when this topic comes up again (and again).

    Like


  575. on September 15, 2009 at 11:49 pm The Fifth Horseman

    David Alexander,

    1) Remind me again – you are born in the US, but your parents were immigrants from Haiti? Or is that incorrect?

    2) Men who can speak French give women Gina tingles. It would not be as hard as you think to improve your life a lot. I know, you are lazy, don’t want to interact with others, etc. But the task is not as Herculean as you think.

    Like


  576. 5Horsemen-

    He gambled that I could not provide solid data to my claim that 50% of Silicon Valley startups are founded by immigrants. Our bargain was if I cannot provide it, I would back down, and if I could, he would.

    In my 9:56 PM post, I provided the needed data.

    He hasn’t commented on that topic since. That is OK, no need to rub it in…. At least Doug1 will re-assess an opinion when provided with facts, unlike PA.

    But I do want the witnesses here to remember the proof provided, for when this topic comes up again (and again).

    http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/09/11/amish-love/#comment-129897

    Like


  577. Remind me again – you are born in the US, but your parents were immigrants from Haiti? Or is that incorrect?

    I was born in the United States, but my parents are immigrants from Haiti.

    Men who can speak French give women Gina tingles.

    Trust me, I could easily fuck that up without trying.

    But the task is not as Herculean as you think.

    Je suis né des sous-hommes, je suis sous-hommes, je mourrai sous-hommes.

    Like


  578. on September 16, 2009 at 12:10 am The Fifth Horseman

    Doug1,

    I only regard European immigrants as quasi immigrants. The reason isn’t primarily racial but cultural. So that cuts out google.

    You can’t change the goalposts. We are talking about the LEGAL definition of immigrant. What ‘you regard’ is irrelevant.

    By your logic, Hispanics from Mexico are also quasi-immigrants, because they are Catholic Christians, speak a Western European language, and have some percentage of white genetics in them.

    So how is a Cuban or white-Mexican immigrant more ‘quasi’ than an Eastern European immigrant? Remember that that was behind the ‘iron curtain’ just 2 decades ago.

    The biggest tech companies that have arisen within the last 400 years aren’t immigrant founded, much less non Euro immigrant founded. E.g. Microsoft, Oracle, Apple, Sun etc.

    Bzzzt. Wrong. Sun had 2 immigrants among the 4 founders. Vinod Khosla and Andreas Bechtolsheim. Intel also had Andy Grove.

    Plus there weren’t Indians and Chinese 40 years ago. Of startups founded from 1995 to 2005, 52.4% are founded by immigrants, almost entirely Chinese and Indian. Your examples are all pre-1980 startups (except Sun, which, as I said, DID have 2 immigrants among the founders).

    The data stands, and you don’t appear to be doubting that 52.4% figure. So, as per your own sudden-death ultimatum, you have to back down on that particular point.

    None of this is to say that I dislike Indian Americans. Your arrogance just needs to be cut down some.

    I have shown no arrogance at all, since was not even talking about Indians. I am talking about skilled immigrants regardless of race. You are inventing the false ’secret Indian objectives’ accusation just to change the goalposts.

    My immigration position is merit-based and 100% race-blind. To insert an imagined ‘Indian motive’ into that is dishonest. My immigration position will not involve race no matter how much you people try to twist it.

    Like


  579. The Fifth Horseman:

    A person does not have to be born on US soil to be considered a Natural Born Citizen (it’s a legal term) If a parent(s) is a US citizen you are as well at birth regardless of where you are born. In fact, that child would never have to reside in the US and could pass on his Natural Born Citizenship to his child who never resided in the US who could also pass it on but in this case must reside in the US for 1 yr.
    What the US has to do is do away with this nonsense that just because you’re born on US soil that makes you a citizen. No country on earth permits this. Even if the parents are in the US legally as permanent residents, their children still should not be citizens if born here until the parents actually become citizens.
    When some 9 month pregnant Mexican female crosses the border and makes it to a (free) US hospital, that birth should be registered at the Mexican embassy in the US and the child is a Mexican citizen. The mother should then be deported AFTER she pays the hospital bill or she is made to work it off then deported.

    Like


  580. One of the aspects of this blog’s patron populace is the almost universal insistence on responding and appealing to both subtle and overt trolls.

    One of the most important rules found in the unwritten Alpha Bible, “Alpha: The Complete Guide to your Social Capital” is to avoid emotional energy vampires.

    This rule would seem to be so important that Self-Actualized Men and Alpha Males alike have written about it repeatedly such as Roissy [as the first rule of his “Grabbing 2008 By The Zeroes” blog post], Tucker Max [in his “Advice Forum”] and Robert Greene [both in “The 48 Laws of Power” and “The Art of Seduction”].

    I think a significant part of the degradation of this forum’s quality and quantity can be attributed to individuals taking themselves and others too seriously, investing too much emotional and intellectual energy in debates that have absolutely no practical advantage and ALLOWING themselves to be deceived into investing that energy.

    Like


  581. 5 Horsemen–

    By your logic, Hispanics from Mexico are also quasi-immigrants, because they are Catholic Christians, speak a Western European language, and have some percentage of white genetics in them.

    NO!

    Some Latinos/Hispanics are essentially Euros and others aren’t. Depends generally on how much Indio in them. I return to saying I care a lot more about culture except where basic things like IQ and amounts of criminal aggression are involved.

    Like


  582. I return to saying I care a lot more about culture

    The secret question of the SWPL, can we make them white?

    Like


  583. Some Latinos/Hispanics are essentially Euros and others aren’t. Depends generally on how much Indio in them

    it may surprise many, but race matters. The degree of Christianization among the Indians is highly correlated with the degree of European blood at them. Where there was the least miscigenation, the thin veneer of Catholicism was wiped out in the XX century and the old, human-blood-drinking, heart-removing, nature-worshipping religion reappeared.

    Both in Southern Mexico/Guatemala and in the SOuthern ANdes (Bolivia) there have beeen public celebrations towards the ancient gods, like mother Earth Pachamama and even the Human-heart-eating feathered serpent Huitzilopochtli

    The old Aztec and Inca races were wiped out through miscigenation and the population who currently occupies their heartlands is sincerely Catholic, but the Maya race remains in SOuthern Mexico/Guatemala and in the borderland of the Inca EMpire the Aymaras and Quechuas are restoring the old world, gladly financed by US/European NGOs and Universities

    Like


  584. I see little dicked tool zunder has taken down his blog and run away.

    Good little kiwi.

    Like


  585. on September 16, 2009 at 2:43 pm SAW: South Asian Woman

    Alright, alright, to hate us coz you wanna be us.

    Obsidian, American pop-culture is not something to be proud of. It caters to the lowest common denominator.

    Like I said before, South Asians rock ONLY because of our culture and tight extended family bonds.

    We would not be so smart nor driven without them.

    Without ’em, we are no better than y’all.

    Like the Amish, we set a good example to Americans of what family values look like.

    In fact, I’d like to see more of us working as family and marriage counselors.

    White and black Americans have much to learn from us on many levels.

    We are here to serve.

    For a price, of course.

    LOL

    Like


  586. on September 16, 2009 at 5:51 pm SAW: South Asian Woman

    “Whether you like it or not PA brings a much more kindred culture with him. He also brings much hotter women with him that you Indians do, and ones more likely to fraternize with native American Euros. Like me. From ancient American times. ”
    …………………………………..

    The problem is that native American Euros don’t have anything of value to offer us South Asian women.

    No culture. (beer and football?)
    No family. (you have step-moms and step-dads, if even)
    No real ethics or morals.

    South Asian men and native American Euro men have similar penis sizes and more or less work it (or don’t) the same, so you don’t even offer us something new/different in even the basest sexual sense.

    Bring something to the table and we just MIGHT consider fraternizing with you.

    Like


  587. TFH,
    You’ve made many great points and I’d like to respond to a few.

    Your notion of only allowing “skilled” immigrants into the country is a bit o a problem for me. I say that because, though I’m not an immigrant, I am not “skilled”, if by that is meant going to college and getting a degree. To date, I have done neither.

    Yet, by my “on the job training”, desire and hard work, I was able to achieve. That’s the promise of America, that no matter who your parents are, or where you come from, if you’re willing to start at the bottom and work hard, you can make it.

    Today, that promise is becoming more and more a sham, because there are fewer avenues to become a Horatio Alger. Only those who have matriculated have such a chance, and worse, only those who have matriculated are regarded as having anythin of value to say or contribute.

    Following your line of reason and extending it into the general society, the great novelist Richard Wright, the abolotionist Frederick Douglass, or the NOI cleric turnd civil rights activist Malcolm X would never have been able to actualize themselves. All of these Men didn’t have formal educations, but were able to rise in life, due in part to their being auto didacts, but also because of the promise of America. College and the university certainly is ONE way to get ahead, but it should not and can’t not be the ONLY way.

    Tis directly applies to Game-Mystery, an immigrant from Canada, was not formally educated. Yet as a result of his truly brilliant mind, coupled with hard work and the promise of America, he today is easily a millionaire, revolutionized a field that meets the needs of a sorely underserved market, has a tv show and from what I hear, a movie deal in the works. THAT’S America to me, TFH. A place where anyone can make it if they want it enough.

    I was not able to go to college-my parents couldn’t afford it, and the schools I attended were crappy. From my earliest years, teachers told my mother that I didn’t belong there, that if I stayed I would get bored or worse. They were right.

    But like I said, my parents couldn’t afford to send me to better schools, let alone college; moreover, they weren’t saavy enough to work the system to get me where I needed to be.

    As a younger Man, this made me bitter, angry at the world for the bad hand I had been dealt in life. That I had been ruthlessly turned down girl after girl to go on the Senior Prom, on the grounds that I was too short, didn’t help things either.

    The years following highschool were hard. Going right into the Blue Collar world was a grinding experience. Unlike most here, I know what it’s like to work in the cold, rain, blinding sun, even tornados. To wash more than 500 cars in the icy cold. To do 6 days a week and more than 12 hours a day in a virtual freezer. To know, firsthand, what the phrase, if you don’t work, you don’t eat, really means.

    For many here, Game is merely a route to more gals, and that’s fine. To me though, it’s a lot more than that-another leg on the road to becoming a better me. Although I’ve never met Style or Mystery, in a sense I consider them mentors to me, much like the group of mentors I had in the form of an all Black Male Debating Society that would meet at a popular Black owned and operated eatery. Professors, economists, lawyers, businessmen, laborers, cops, firemen, nationalists, activists, you name it, they were there, all to get together on Sunday mornings and shoot the breeze, debate the issues of the day using Robert’s Rules of Order. From them I learned so much. I couldn’t attend the university, so God brought the university to me.

    From them I learned that learning is more, a lot more, than merely sitting in a classroom, and they were the ones to help me see things in myself that I could not. It was from them that I learned that I could teach myself, and I did. Everyday after backbreaking work, I woul head to the Borders bookshop in Chestnut Hill. There, I’d either buy the books I wanted, and when I ran out of money, sat there and read them for free. I did this for years.

    I learned to surround myself with others who were where I wanted to be or wished I could be; from them, learned other things.

    I read magazines, periodicals, got a library card and spent weekends reading old mircofiches, anything I could get my hands on. People assumed I attended university when I spoke. They were often shocked to learn otherwise.

    And these Men, helped me w/Women as well. They were the ones to teach me the importance of not being bitter, not just wrt the girls in highschool, but in life overall. They were the ones who told me that mine was a special life, that I would see and experience, firsthand, a lot more than most. And that my life would serve as an example to others, of how to overcome supposed limitations.

    A big part of Game is about mentoring, something that a lot of lip service is paid to in this society, but no one really does it. That we Men are here to discuss things that we should have learned from our dads gives witness to this.

    Had it not been for my dad, and those Black Men on Sundays being in my life, I would most likely be either on Death Row or dead. I was an angry, bitter boy, whom they molded into the Man you see today. Where else other than America, could such a thing be even possible?

    Finally, a word about my upcoming blog: a launch date has been selected, and I just finished completing a basic outline for it yesterday. Tomorrow is a big day for me in terms of taking care of some very important business. If all goes well, things should get underway very soon. As for readership levels, etc, I never set out to “compete” with anyone, only to offer another perspective on Game, and the issues of the day. What happens, is in God’s Hands.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  588. on September 17, 2009 at 12:47 pm SAW: South Asian Woman

    Obsidian, that was a really heart-felt posts. A tear almost formed in my left eye.

    You reminded me of what it must’ve been like for some of the unprofessional South Asians who migrated to this country who pieced things together, worked hard at their “unskilled” labor jobs in regions much colder than they are used to (seeing snow for the first time ever) and learning to wear multiple layers of clothing to stay warm in their homes to save on electricity, and skrimping and saving until they are able to open up a shop or gas-station of their own, invest and send their kids to good Universities so that they (we) could become successful professionals and not struggle like they did.

    I pray that we (their children, grand-children and great-children) never forget the sacrifices they made on our behalf.

    May ancestor worship live on!

    Like


  589. Ruby

    One of the aspects of this blog’s patron populace is the almost universal insistence on responding and appealing to both subtle and overt trolls.

    One of the most important rules found in the unwritten Alpha Bible, “Alpha: The Complete Guide to your Social Capital” is to avoid emotional energy vampires.

    Yes, it’s so odd as to be od. So strange as to be off putting.

    One of the biggest culprits of this is Obsidian, responding to DA. And any response to TJF is guaranteed dullary. There are times when the bulk of comment posts are by trolls and their respondents, or useless comments by useless commentors such as nicole. Page down page down page down.

    It’s like arguing against Jeesus freaks. Why? Trolls and true believers are fun to bat around for a bit, but are not worth engaging in debate – because they DO NOT engage in debate. Those that can’t learn this are not worth reading either.

    Like


  590. Obsidian advertised:

    Finally, a word about my upcoming blog: a launch date has been selected

    With Rev. Sharpton, Cheetos and Grape Ne-Hi all as sponsors, you simply can’t go wrong.

    Best wishes
    F

    Like


  591. on September 17, 2009 at 5:44 pm SAW: South Asian Woman

    Obsidian, I don’t get this part;

    “Had it not been for my dad, and those Black Men on Sundays being in my life, I would most likely be either on Death Row or dead. I was an angry, bitter boy, whom they molded into the Man you see today. Where else other than America, could such a thing be even possible?”……………..

    You are saying that only in America is it possible for a bitter youth to turn into a productive adult via the guidance of elders?

    You’ve got to be joking…………..

    Like


  592. SAW,
    What I’m saying is that America has offered more opportunity to others than any other place on the planet.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  593. Obsidian, I see your larger point about it being difficult to qualify what a skilled worker is. Some of us are autodidacts and entrepreneurs. Above a certain IQ level, college is not needed.

    That being the case one could qualify immigrants based either on education and job qualifications or brute I.Q.

    Like


  594. […] has an insightful post on the growing popularity of Amish bodice rippers: Amish men, listen up! You’ve allowed a sliver of the heathen slut culture to invade your oasis. […]

    Like