What You Can Learn From A Beta

I’ve written before that I learned a lot about game by carefully observing men in the field who were naturally good with women, at least as much as I’ve learned from books and internet forums. Every man growing up should have an alpha male mentor, or at least should be part of a social circle that has at least one alpha male so that he can watch and take mental notes about what works with women. I’ve had a few of those guys in my life and they were indispensable to figuring out what behaviors cause women to respond positively.

There is a flip side to that coin. You can learn just as much about what *not* to do by meticulously observing betas getting shot down. Not only will you see which behaviors are counterproductive, but you will get a better feel for those subtle changes in facial expression and body position that girls who have suddenly lost interest will convey.

Here are some of the things I’ve learned by watching betas at the exact moment they got rejected, like the sad but amusing moment Ralph Wiggums suffered Lisa’s rejection.

  • Betas smile too little and smile too much

Yeah, it seems contradictory, but betas never have a firm grasp on when and how often it’s personally advantageous to smile. They don’t smile when they walk into the bar or before they’ve started talking to a girl, and they smile too much once they are in a conversation with a girl. This behavior reveals their tormented beta soul: They are unhappy to be there until a girl’s presence makes them happy. Would an alpha relinquish his state of mind to another person? Especially a woman? No. His joy is self-generated.

  • Betas are reactive

You can tell a lot about a person by how quickly they answer a question. When a girl asks a beta a question, he answers promptly and enthusiastically. When someone taps him on the shoulder to get his attention, he spins around immediately, looking almost shocked by the intrusion into his personal space. This is reactive behavior. The first says “Wow I can’t believe a girl is talking to me!” The second reaction says “I am skittish because I doubt my ability to calmly handle these high pressure social situations.” Alphas always pause a second too long before responding to a girl, pushing her to the brink of slight discomfort. This makes her intrigued. Alphas also do not react hyperdefensively when another man confronts him. They take their sweet time, savoring the buildup of tension. This allows them to think of the best thing to say, and to take stock of the situation.

  • Betas play it straight

Betas seem to have forgotten what childhood was like. They take life too seriously, and they take girls even more seriously. They always answer questions straight, as if life were a final exam with right and wrong answers. This mode of thinking is toxic to pickup. Girls secretly don’t want you to answer their questions; they want you to tease them mercilessly, at least until she is attracted to you. Alphas instinctually understand the art of playfulness.

  • Betas push themselves on people

When someone gives the beta the time of day, that person becomes the center of the beta’s universe. I have often seen betas lunge into the personal space of women, like an aardvark snuffling for termites, who were initially friendly with them. Betas quickly manifest the stink of neediness given the chance. Their focus is too intense too soon. Alphas, by contrast, keep their bodies loose and uninvested in the conversation, until they have decided the time is right to divert all their valuable attention on the person in front of them.

  • Betas can’t stop looking around

The next time you watch a beta standing by himself holding his beer up to his chin, notice how often he lets his head swivel around the room. Back and forth, up and down, all around. This behavior shows too much concern with his environment. The alpha gets the lay of the land early on, then minimizes his head swiveling. Think about it, how much does the king who sits on his throne swivel his head around the castle room? Not often, because he is the center of attention, and people’s heads swivel to him.

  • Betas are defensive and apologetic

Sometimes a girl will call the beta out on something he said. She will challenge his story or make fun of his opinions. The beta invariably bristles, defensively correcting her or huffily and spastically clarifying whatever point he was making. Often, he will simply apologize in so many words. Girl: “I can’t believe you like that band! They’re so derivative!” Beta: “Well, I didn’t say I liked them that much. They can be a little derivative, that’s true.” Compare how an alpha would handle this. Girl: “I can’t believe you like that band!…” Alpha: [cutting her off] I take it you’re a Britney Spears fan, then? Explains a lot.”

  • Betas always look like they have a load in their pants

Are betas incapable of finding pants that fit them? It would seem so, because they all wear ill-fitting pants and walk in a way that suggests they loaded their diapers. Alphas seem to know how pants should fit on a man.

***

Before I was exceptionally good at meeting women, I once caught myself in a bar wall mirror talking to a girl who was slowly losing interest in our conversation. I was appalled by my awkward body language, and sufficiently stirred to action by the reflection of my betaness to change those behaviors that were holding me back.

Every man should hit on a girl in front of a mirror, and stop to observe his posture. Better yet, he should have a buddy secretly film him in the field. The wake-up call will leave him stunned.





Comments


  1. Every man growing up should have an alpha male mentor, or at least should be part of a social circle that has at least one alpha male so that he can watch and take mental notes about what works with women.

    Not all Alphas make good mentors. In my early 20’s I sometimes hung around with this guy named Chris who seemed to have a nearly unlimited ability to score with the best women. On more than one occasion I asked him if he had any tips or advice, so maybe I could enjoy similar luck. Heck, if I had had one-tenth of his luck I would’ve been thrilled. Unfortunately, Chris didn’t seem to be able to explain his method very well, even though being a decent sort I’m sure he would have been happy to help. He pretty much attributed his luck to instinct and couldn’t pass on any advice.

    Peter

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  2. The problem with learning by watching other people make mistakes is that your ego gets in the way. You tell yourself “I would never act like that” or “I wouldn’t have said that”, etc…
    You’re seeing things from a detached perspective, without the adrenalin surging through your veins and various emotions swirling through your brain.

    Like


  3. on October 2, 2008 at 5:28 pm Let's be honest

    If there is a common thread running through the Beta mistakes you list it is the following: the Betas are simply revealing they are Betas. Their overeagerness, their anxiety, their defensiveness, their rigidity towards life, women, people stems from their true nature. Which is they are – at bottom, at root, at core – middling, mediocre men. They may have had some success in life, but not more than the average guy. This is what is ultimately coming through.

    When you talk about Alphas being relaxed, undefensive, their flexibility, not taking women seriously: all stems from THEIR natural being – they are capable, above-average men.

    You can only put on a fake posture of “game” for so long in trying to fool women.

    Don’t you think that a better way for men to improve their “game” with women is to improve themselves as “men” first – to work at gaining money, power, status, mastery in career. By doing so, such Betas will move beyond the middling, mediocre people they are towards capability, superiority. Towards the world of Alpha.

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  4. Some naturals are fairly conscious of what they do to attract women, and can articulate it to at least some degree.

    Others go on pure instinct and honestly cannot tell you how they get women. These latter are often sadly vulnerable to suddenly losing their game due to confidence sapping life events and often cannot get it back. There is nothing sadder than a former player who wanders around in a daze wondering where it all went. They also tend to make terrible mentors, at least when you are just starting out.

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  5. I spent a summer watching an Alpha pick up a new chick each night, while out travelling on Dead tour. I was lucky to score once that summer. Not only was the guy charming, but he was hot. I can be charming, but I’m ugly. Even if an ugly guy works out and learns some game, in some circles, he ain’t getting any.

    That’s why I learned to move in different circles. Cultures who haven’t seen a lot of westerners have oodles of young girls who still think I’ve got it all going on – even not that I’m over 40. Here I can be ugly, and work my game.

    Comportment and how much money you can throw around makes a difference, but if you are a truly ugly man, it might not make enough difference. We need an extra edge. A three or a four with game is like post-menopausal woman who keeps fit and stays social. Ya, you can still get a little.

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  6. My post just got lost.

    I once spent a summer travelling with an alfa on Dead tour. He got laid every night – I was lucky to a piece just once that summer.

    The thing is, I’m fugly. Downright ugly. I had to move to SEA to have young girls find me hot.

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  7. I have often seen betas lunge into the personal space of women, like an aardvark snuffling for termites, who were initially friendly with them. Betas quickly manifest the stink of neediness given the chance.

    Word.

    The body language of “I would like to get to know you better” is distinctly different from the body language of “I need you to talk to me”.

    In my field, we are videotaped as trainees talking to clients of the firm (that volunteer for this particular exercise) as though they are new prospects. Our whole class has to watch each person’s tape. All of us cringed when seeing the subconscious protective gestures we made during these conversations.

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  8. You can only put on a fake posture of “game” for so long in trying to fool women.

    Fake it til you make it works. Once you get a little bit of success from using outer game techniques, you will start to develop real confidence with women.

    Don’t you think that a better way for men to improve their “game” with women is to improve themselves as “men” first – to work at gaining money, power, status, mastery in career.

    Being successful and confident in the other areas of your life certainly helps, but there are specific problems with dealing with women that need to be addressed on their own terms.

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  9. You can only put on a fake posture of “game” for so long in trying to fool women.

    Again, there is a dichotomy here. If you are talking about making up fake stories about yourself to get women’s attention like some advocate, yeah. That isn’t going to fly for too long.

    I think the main point here tho is that the listed behaviors are somewhat easy to modify with a bit more awareness of what they project to women.

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  10. @Let’s be honest

    Sometimes adopting a particular physical behavior can change your mind. For instance, when you smile, you become happier. So there’s a two way street between your external behavior and your internal thought patterns.

    It’s true that your external behaviors are symptomatic of your internal beliefs, but by adopting external behaviors of a confident male, you can actually change your internal confidence.

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  11. I have often seen betas lunge into the personal space of women, like an aardvark snuffling for termites, who were initially friendly with them. Betas quickly manifest the stink of neediness given the chance.

    Isn’t this advice contradictory with kino? Or are you just saying you should (e.g.) lean back and use kino anyway?

    Let’s be honest 4:

    [Betas] may have had some success in life, but not more than the average guy.

    Ummm, in the computer industry, I know plenty of betas who have quite a few millions to their name. Some are “provider betas”, while others are just your basic geeky guys. I wouldn’t call these folks “unsuccessful” in the large — only unsuccessful in the specific area of “having lots of sex with hot women.”

    Or, heck, if you want a pair of extreme examples of incredibly successful betas: Warren Buffett and Bill Gates.

    Success with money and success with women are orthogonal.

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  12. Oy. Leviticus has fewer rules.

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  13. monohechomierda, you calling VK short??? Them’s fighting words.

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  14. Politeness is another one. Asking her what she wants, holding or watching her things, fetching something she wants, stepping aside to let her pass, etc.

    Oftentimes when a girl is blocking your way, she *wants* you to bump into her. Hell, the 5’1 gymnast in sweatpants or the 5’9 banker chick is hoping you’ll even body-check her. Lemmonex knows what I’m talking about.

    Guys can convince themselves by working the following two lines into the conversation, and see which works better:

    1) “Well it is the gentlemanly thing to do…”

    2) “Well luckily for you, I’m not a gentleman…”

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  15. I’m a beta and I wear ill-fitting trousers.

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  16. Unfortunately, Chris didn’t seem to be able to explain his method very well, even though being a decent sort I’m sure he would have been happy to help. He pretty much attributed his luck to instinct and couldn’t pass on any advice.

    You’d learn more by observing the guy’s behavior than asking him to explain it, ie, watch his body language, listen to his tone. Most alphas aren’t consciously aware of what they’re doing — they just do it.

    “Watch and learn, fellas… watch and learn.”

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  17. I don’t have time to write at length, but here is some advice on how to free your Alpha within:

    Make sure your testosterone is above 1000 ng/dl. If it’s below 350-400, then immediately go on TRT. If it’s around 600 ng/dl (a good level), and you are a low confidence wimp, then try LJ100 for 2 months. I had good natural test levels, but an illness dropped them along with my manhood. I went on TRT and everything is better again. I recommend: ~70mg testosterone cypionate on Sunday and Thursday, along with .5mg Arimidex. I then add 250iu of HCG 3x week. From this I estimate that I have 18-25 ejaculations per week. TRT is wonderful. I am in my mid-30’s and feel like I am 18. My friends are now pussy-whipped. Whenever I need something extra I will inject up to 400mg per week and take a 2mg of Arimidex. This juice enables to walk into any meeting without a scintilla of doubt.

    For much of my life I failed to capitalize on my Alpha instincts. I would let self-doubt ruin my fun. I decided to get back into great shape, to wear nice clothes and to ask out any woman before me. I soon went from some beautiful women to only beautiful women. I am a family oriented man and I always wanted 5 kids so I have always sought a woman who would be a great mother while remaining a nympho in the bedroom. Soon I was able to win over a co-worker who was once a stripper but also very smart. I was able to convince her to be my wife. This victory, and it was a victory as literally a dozen other men at work were chasing her, was the final element into my destined ascent.

    Today, I am basically the man whom I always sought to be; I am never pushed nor intimidated. Some may think that becoming an Alpha after finding the right woman is pointless. I can assure you that it’s not. For me, I am not even sure Alpha status would be possible without my wife. My love of her and of my children is a prime contributor to my feelings of power. They provide the fuel to overcome the dysfunctional thoughts that riddled my youth. I am now fully in command of all that I wish to be: from work to home to sex. Because my wife noticed and was attracted to my Alpha characteristics (even if some of her observations were not accurate, such as her belief that I had previously fornicated with more than 100 women), I was able to properly introduce some subjects around the time of our consummation. Those subjects included my belief that her pussy was now mine and that other women should always be a part of our relationship. This step was absolutely essential and I encourage all men who need women, but cannot fathom the thought of just one women, to utter it.

    Now, while I have blown it on many occasions (such as not starting a porn company where my wife and I would screw teen girls; something to which she agreed years ago but I regrettably didn’t pursue out of potential embarrassment), I have remained an Alpha in my wife’s eyes. Given this, I have been able to treat her with the respect that she deserves while also inspiring her. The result is constant sex many years later and the frequent presence of other women in our bedroom. Quite frankly there is nothing my wife won’t do for me.

    So for those men who struggle to free their Alpha inside I recommend you test your T, get into shape, toss the jeans and button down shirts, and find yourself a woman who will inspire you to greatness. Be sure to also mention that you expect her to invite other women into your bed and to deliver oral sex whenever needed. You may just find that this combination works for you. You may also find yourself with a wife as attractive as mine. For fellow porn lovers (when you take 150mg of T a week you will be a major porn hound), I have found Jessica Bangkok to closely resemble my wife in the eyes, tits, skin tone and hair. However, my wife has a more feminine chin. (for you struggling Alphas, there is hope —NSFW— http://cwians.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/08/15/jessica_bangkok_1.jpg
    http://www.titilicious.com/nd/bigboss_JessicaBangkok/boss1003.html)

    If anyone ever wants advice on TRT, just email me. If you think you lack confidence, then give it a try. If it all works for you, I would also mention one other piece of advice that has worked for me. Never bring up past women in your life and never agree to swing with another couple. Regarding the former, I believe that introducing the fact that other women have been emotionally intimitate with you is a mistake. Such a discussion will fester in your woman’s mind and make her paranoid that you are capable of loving another. Regarding swinging, there have been many times we have met couples where I could screw a beautiful women if I was willing to swap my wife. No dice. I believe that a man must show his woman that he will defend her body at any cost. To allow another man to touch her would be to defy her faith in you.

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  18. on October 2, 2008 at 6:50 pm ironrailsironweights

    Unfortunately, Chris didn’t seem to be able to explain his method very well, even though being a decent sort I’m sure he would have been happy to help. He pretty much attributed his luck to instinct and couldn’t pass on any advice.

    You’d learn more by observing the guy’s behavior than asking him to explain it, ie, watch his body language, listen to his tone. Most alphas aren’t consciously aware of what they’re doing — they just do it.

    What’s odd is that Chris had amazing luck with women despite having certain effeminate characteristics. He was more concerned with dress and grooming than any other straight man I’ve ever know, and this was years before the word “metrosexual” had entered the vocabulary. He definitely was straight, although upon first meeting him some people (understandably) thought otherwise.

    Peter

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  19. ironrailsironweights – “He definitely was straight, although upon first meeting him some people (understandably) thought otherwise.”

    This is because most women won’t have their b!tch shields up when a gay man is around. By the time they realized Chris wasn’t gay, he was already in like Flynn (who was an alpha and very effeminate in many ways).

    Like


  20. on October 2, 2008 at 7:03 pm Large Hadron Collider

    Women are like protons

    When you bang them correctly, they give off energy 🙂

    Like


  21. You really hit the bullseye on this post. Like a Andre Berto straight right to the temple.

    “* Betas play it straight

    They always answer questions straight, as if life were a final exam with right and wrong answers. This mode of thinking is toxic to pickup. Girls secretly don’t want you to answer their questions; they want you to tease them mercilessly”

    Truer words have not been spoken. Never loose the kid in you.

    – MPM

    Like


  22. Personally, I learned everything I needed to know about women from CakeFarts.com.

    Warning: the highly-relevant postmodern message of this site may be lost on many who cannot appreciate a radical departure from their pedestrian mores.

    Like


  23. Zylonet, hormone therapy is for menopausal women.

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  24. monohechomierda,

    If this is a strange way of you asking to see my dick? But yes at 5’10 I’m basically a midget

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  25. I’ve never been good at the smiling aspect. I feel like a tool just grinning at women. Is this something regularly practiced? I’ve never seen it done before.

    So to recap, the alpha approach/look/walk:

    Good fitting clothing, well dressed, shoulders up, grinning as you walk over?

    22 – TRT = Steriods?

    Like


  26. “Zylonet, hormone therapy is for menopausal women.”

    Then call it steroids.

    “22 – TRT = Steriods?”

    TRT does not equal Steroids.

    Steroids = Abuse

    TRT = Unbelievable quality of life when done right.

    TRT = Better longevity

    TRT = Reduced mortality risk

    TRT = Prevention of genito-urinary atrophy

    TRT = Sharper brain function

    TRT = Same energy with less sleep

    TRT = A very happy wife

    TRT = A smart choice for many men, and unnecessary for others.

    TRT = Making women between 30-40 very wet. Many women don’t want to get old and they believe hormones are some type of magic exiler. Therefore, your use of such will increase their curiosity in you and your wife. A natural way to let them see how well drugs work.

    TRT = not for women

    HGH = for women

    Like


  27. “Soon I was able to WIN over a co-worker who was once a stripper but also very smart. I was able to CONVINCE her to be my wife. This VICTORY, and it was a victory as literally a dozen other men at work were CHASING her, was the final element into my destined ascent.”

    -Zylonet

    Zylonet,

    I’m glad you obtained long term success with this mindset. This is often however the FATAL flaw of higher level provider Betas. When most dudes try to “win over”, “convince”, and “out-compete” to win the affections of a certain woman, they get her……….until she loses the awe in all the hoops you jumped through to get her. She’ll start to resent you and you’ll be blamed for her unhappiness and “something missing” in the relationship (which should have been the authentic raw chemistry that she percieves in her emotional mind) .

    I think men should pursue, but not Chase women…after all , they outnumber us and theres always a new one around the corner if things don’t work out. Plus, women being emotional agents with free will, percieve whatever they want about you regardless. No need the guess what their thinking or what they want all the time. They let you know they want you after you give them a LITTLE opportunity. No need the sweat them…………. unless you are trying to conquer the pussy for a brief moment ;-).

    Again Zylonet, I’m glad things worked out for you. But your outcome is rare. I must ask would you still have your “Alphaness” sans supplement diet, uuber success, and ruthless competitiveness. Nothing wrong with being a Manufactured-Alpha, just understand how percieved losses can affect your innermost core.

    Anon2

    That’s exactly the point. The challenge is in finding and bedding a new woman in hopes that she’s “different”, like a new wine.

    -Ba1anced
    Beta with Alpha Tendencies

    Like


  28. Speaking of lessons you can learn from a beta, check this guy out:

    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-1002-sex-denial,0,2150341.story

    Like


  29. “I’m glad you obtained long term success with this mindset. This is often however the FATAL flaw of higher level provider Betas. When most dudes try to “win over”, “convince”, and “out-compete” to win the affections of a certain woman, they get her……….until she loses the awe in all the hoops you jumped through to get her. She’ll start to resent you and you’ll be blamed for her unhappiness and “something missing” in the relationship (which should have been the authentic raw chemistry that she percieves in her emotional mind) .”

    Excellent point and I was lucky (because Betaness can show up when the stakes are high) that my pursuit was not over the top. When I was younger I made that mistake with another “wonder woman” type who was very interested and with countless other women. With wifey, I was able to win her through my workplace dominance, physicality, words, thoughts and later writings. I was able to retain cool at most times and probably only crossed the line a few times (too much chasing) in the course of the six months or whatever it was. In fact, we stopped talking for about 2 months during which I had a great run with women at 24 hour fitness. The break-up came somewhat from my chasing too hard, but I quickly realized my mistake and played everything correctly to my eventual satisfaction. Things were back on track when future wife brought me lunch and told me that she had bought a dildo that reminded her of me. I would definitely agree, that chasing a women as you put it, is a mistake and that once you blow it the entire circle of friends can become toxic. It took me 14 years to control it, but I had a decent year or two before shacking up with the wife.

    “I must ask would you still have your “Alphaness” sans supplement diet, uuber success, and ruthless competitiveness. ”

    I would still have some level of Alphaness without my “supplement diet” and everything else, but it would be towards the lower end of that positive spectrum. Still a good place to be, but not the best, and certainly lower than what I presently enjoy. So much of Beta-ness is the inability to sell (Betas lacking opening line confidence). I would imagine there are a lot of Betas who were like me: they don’t like to sell stuff including opening moves. When I finally got over it because I could no longer tolerate my existence, I quickly realized how little game is needed to be moderately successful with women. Fortunately/Unfortunately, I met brown beauty a year or two into my transformation so I didn’t get a ten year run as a bachelor.

    “Nothing wrong with being a Manufactured-Alpha, just understand how percieved losses can affect your innermost core.”

    Good point and I am sure some men would not rate my present life.

    Like


  30. Oh yeah, the kind of beta that’s most instructive is the greater beta who should be some kind of alpha. Or could be.

    He’s fairly good looking, fittish at least (not fat or skeletal), has a good professional job that isn’t without juice and he’s moving up there, and he’s a pretty good conversationalist, once he gets comfortable and going. He’s fine with smart guys — and with girls he knows are off the table for one reason or another.

    This is of course the kind of guy who can most benefit from game. He’s also the kind who’s fawning immediate praise of attractive women and literal minded tenseness with them are so obviously killing his chances.

    He’s a class 1 feminism victim. He was instructable and took copious notes. He respects women. He almost deifies them in fact. They will nearly always be right. And so on.

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  31. on October 2, 2008 at 9:14 pm monohechomierda

    VK,
    No need to be so sensitive about your (lack of) height. I was just making the point that height is one of those things that tickles the reptile part of a woman’s brain and as the shortest of the three it would be a disadvantage. You would therefore probably have the best game out of the three.

    Like


  32. 25 Large Hadron Collider,

    We don’t just give off energy. We loose weight too! 🙂

    Like


  33. “You’re seeing things from a detached perspective, without the adrenalin surging through your veins and various emotions swirling through your brain.”

    -Anonymous2

    Anon2,

    I bet she would argue that Alphas have learned overtime to manage their emotions in the heat of the hunt which creates that cool aloofness that so many women crave. So to SOME alphas , especially the natural , gut instinct type, anxiety is a non-issue. They are use to being chose by the best, and a beautiful willing woman is a dime a dozen to them. That is why many are simply Pussy Conaisseurs…..from one beautiful woman to the next. And betas make it easier for them because I think to a woman …being approached by an Alpha after a string of failed attempts from betas is a refreshing breath of originality for her.

    -Ba1anced
    Beta with Alpha Tendencies

    Like


  34. monohechomierda 38

    Agricultural serfs were short. Shortness seems to be an adaptation to a high in grain, low in meat and protein, and perhaps often low in overall calories diet.

    Nomadic or rather transhumanant tribal herders are typically much taller, within the same or closely related racial groups. They also typically periodically overwhelmed the ruling classes of agricultural societies.

    Preference for tall may have started out hundreds of thousands of years ago, but it likely got reinforced in agricultural societies as a kind of visceral attraction to ruling class stock, even when the younger sons have descended into the society.

    Like


  35. Ba1anced 3 – That’s exactly the response I would expect from him. Yet the idea of being completely in control means you don’t care if you win or lose. At that point, where is the challenge? Why would an alpha waste his time if picking up has no thrill? This is why movie stars, rocks stars, successful artists, etc… get bored with “the life”. It’s a “been there, done that” attitude, and as a result, they blow off incredibly hot women for which most men would give their left nut.

    Thursday 9 – good point. Success in business or life in general does not translate into success with women.

    Like


  36. 4 Let’s be honest

    Don’t you think that a better way for men to improve their “game” with women is to improve themselves as “men” first – to work at gaining money, power, status, mastery in career. By doing so, such Betas will move beyond the middling, mediocre people they are towards capability, superiority. Towards the world of Alpha.

    You, sir, fail. See the mid-September post “World Leaders Have No Game.” (I would provide a link, but it looks like doing so would force my comment to be held up for moderation until it’s too late to matter.) And there are plenty of very capable people in Silicon Valley and other nerd havens who aren’t particularly interesting to most women.

    That said, becoming an effective person in real life is worthwhile for its own sake, even if no female interest comes with it. Just be aware that it is often a good idea for a competent, nerdy man to dedicate some effort to getting along better with interesting women.

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  37. Let’s be honest —

    If that is the case: success with women = high status in life, much power/money, then you are arguing for a “soft” polygamy since by definition only a few men will achieve that.

    The rest will be angry and resentful betas sure to take things out on both women and Alphas. In one form or another.

    Most men are good at something. They may not be superstars, with football stadiums watching them and applauding every move, but they are good at things. The problem is that most men are taught to put women on pedestals, and that’s made worse by the failures most men experience in early adolescence. Just the way it is.

    CH is spot on, but I’ll note this is a RECENT development. Guys in the 1950’s would have laughed at this — who had trouble finding a girlfriend?

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  38. HRT is rather easy to get in many states. Male hormones get a bad rap when used in medicine because of bodybuilders taking it to extremes. Also that one Canadian runner, Ben Johnson.

    Places in south America, like Chile, you can get test in a drug store over the counter. Like anything else in life, knowledge with skill = win.

    See this article about a guy who uses test to his advantage. He doesn’t abuse it, he uses it.

    Testosterone is a miracle compound and one that is sorely lacking today in the west. I blame Xenoestrogens created by toxins from modern plastic containers.

    Like


  39. Every man should hit on a girl in front of a mirror, and stop to observe his posture. Better yet, he should have a buddy secretly film him in the field. The wake-up call will leave him stunned.

    A great post overall but this one is a really valuable idea.

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  40. 41:

    Online. Some good sources there, mostly Euro clearing houses for stuff made in E Europe, Asia (Mexico’s dried up). Do check out a good steroids bible (Llewellyn, Roberts), and they’ll give you pointers on what “brands” to look for (esp. how to recognize/avoid counterfeits).

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  41. Zylonet: Steroids equals abuse. TRT does not equal steroids.

    Interesting. Would appreciate future comment(s) to elaborate on that point. Steroids strike me as simply a slightly different way to produce very similar results to T-augmentation. Interesting to hear your take on that.

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  42. Is there a way to increase free T, while keeping E and DHT low? I know AI can keep the E in check, and Fina can do the same with DHT, but Finasteride is a competitive blocker. In other words, any increase in T will be accompanied by an increase in DHT.

    Seems like you’re doubly screwed if you suffer from MPB.

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  43. Most men are good at something.

    I suck at everything that I do, and I’d imagine that there are many other men who simply have no redeeming talents.

    Guys in the 1950’s would have laughed at this — who had trouble finding a girlfriend?

    Yeah, but men of the 1950s had much lower standards than modern men. Sure, the obesity numbers have spiked up, but a lot of those 3 and 4 fat girls are only 4 and 5 skinny girls…

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  44. on October 3, 2008 at 12:11 am Lets be honest

    whiskey, referring to my previous comment:

    If that is the case: success with women = high status in life, much power/money, then you are arguing for a “soft” polygamy since by definition only a few men will achieve that.

    I say: Correctamundo. This is a soft polygamy that only a few men are going to achieve.

    Here’s my view: For the last century in America, social status usually comes from money. Money, power, and status = Alphadom. The latter two flow from the first.

    I’ve heard people argue that “power” is the baseline before money. For instance, Robert Greene, in 48 Laws of Power writes something like “Get power and money will find its way to you.” I dont buy this. A lot of people have positions of sizable de facto power in daily life (cops., government bureaucrats) but no money.

    So, I am saying that money usually leads to the latter two. Not every man was born to make big money – true. But we are living in a society that places a very high premium on money. Thats the way the cookie crumbles.

    So Money becomes the holy grail baseline for Alphadom in my book. Its not the whole story. A rich nerd can wield power and have status, I suppose, but can have no “game” and would remain a greater beta, I agree.

    Also – we can’t rule out things like good looks, height, and race.
    A 5’2 fat greasy guy who is rich, has power and status still has an uphill climb compared to a 6 foot good looking WASP with the same probably.

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  45. DA 46 —

    I suck at everything that I do, and I’d imagine that there are many other men who simply have no redeeming talents.

    If that’s really true you should indeed be eliminated from the future gene pool. I recoil at government mandated eugenics, but anyone who understands the slightest thing about evolution knows that competitive pruning of the gene pool is essential for maintaining, not to mention improving, the human gene pool. It’s always happened naturally until perhaps not very recently in very rich and very altruistically/safety net minded societies.
    ?
    If that’s really true you should also shut the fuck up since obviously anything you have to say will be misleading at best, and a waste of neural capacity to process.

    It is though rather a puzzle how many people around here find you interesting to talk to once in awhile, if rather nauseating at times as well.

    How do you explain that? You aren’t pulling some elaborate and fairly novel attention getting scam by appearing a lot more desperately unfit than you really are — are you?

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  46. to Zylonet,

    -I assume you first ruled out a pituitary adenoma?
    -Did you actually have any symptoms? like anemia, osteoporosis, ED, fatigue, anhedonia, decreased glucose tolerance?
    -Did you try a gym membership before you started T replacement?
    -Are you not concerned about supressed fertility, or testicular atrophy?
    -Have you been hitting on underage girls?, losing your temper frequently?, divorce? or having other psychosocial problems?

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  47. You’ll probably also learn that betas have a high 2D:4D. What are they supposed to do about that? Mine is 1.03, hell yeah I’m a coward.

    I wonder if there’s some website somewhere telling 85 IQ LAISD students that they can really ace 8th-grade algebra, all they need is “math game.”

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  48. “Interesting. Would appreciate future comment(s) to elaborate on that point. Steroids strike me as simply a slightly different way to produce very similar results to T-augmentation. Interesting to hear your take on that.”

    There are many different steroids to promote muscle and performance gain. However, for men who are deficient in testosterone or who seek to attain the optimal levels, there are just a few primary options: testosterone cypionate, testosterone enanthate or Androgel. When taken in therapeutic doses, these compounds are life enhancing. When taken in high doses, these drugs should be considered steroids and will induce negative side effects. Many bodybuilders will use from 500mg to 2,000mg Test Cyp/week as part of training and as part of a larger drug cocktail.

    Often when people hear “steroids” they are thinking of substances that act similarly, but often more directly and more effectly, to the exogenous testosterones listed above. A list of these substances can be found here: http://www.mesomorphosis.com/steroid-profiles/index.htm

    A big problem in medicine is the confusion of testosterone with other drugs like Winstrol or Deca that have a high capacity for abuse and are therapeutic in only a vary narrow, if any, clinical window. This dichotomy between drug types was too elaborate for Joe Biden to understand when he helped create the current environment of hate towards beneficial drugs like testosterone.

    For anyone looking to receive continued life enhancing effects, the only choices are the primary testosterones and not the “steroids” you will find on the link provided above. I should also mention that many people involved in steroids have gone to tremendous lengths to promote their expertise and to promote the science behind many substances. Anyone thinking of taking these exotic steroids is taking a risk. There is little by way of research to support their safety, wherease the testerones have been unequivocally proven safe. I should also mention that I know many of the people behind this science and I wouldn’t trust them even though they are bright.

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  49. There are types of betas that one can learn much more from observing than others. There are also kinds of alphas that are much more instructive for higher betas or lesser alphas than others. In essence, the kind of beta who should be an alpha with women but isn’t is the most instructive to observe. That was simple, wasn’t it. I’ll elaborate in a moment.

    It’s not quite as simple when flipping the script to look at natural alphas for what they can teach, because there are sorts of bad boy alphas that almost everyone will agree shouldn’t be but are, who very few men wishing to move up in the attractive arts will wish to emulate. They’d have to throw over all they’ve built up and are good at to do it, with very uncertain results. Sociopathic criminals for example. Biker boys. One can learn from their examples by applying the right level of abstraction, but that’s not exactly direct and emotionally compelling. They are not good role models.

    The most instructive alphas are guys who are good enough, in the running, in the overall social status sweepstakes as they apply to a particular social circle / locale, but are not knocking the ball out of the park outstanding. In other words, the best natural alphas for observational purposes are the guys who’s “stats” could leave them as higher betas, but in fact they’re solid alphas.

    H in other words. Whether he was a lesser alpha or higher beta before learning more game and graduating to solid alpha pulling the chicks status, he’s exactly the sort that is most instructive. Brad Pitt is not. Bruce Willis comes closer – he’s really not that handsome, he’s (or was, he’s aging) just incredibly confident. He’s where it’s at. It’s magnetic.

    Sometimes kinda average guys who pull chicks like crazy are actually mondo capable but underperforming goof offs – at least for awhile. The fratire net storyteller and humorist Tucker Max is an example. The guy is actually very, very high IQ. He just loves a jerk off, drunken bar dwelling, savage humorist, male slut persona, or anyway has. He’s milked his male rebellion blog humor fame into being a kind of slut girls’ celebrity. If you’re a girl want to try that side of the fence, or establish some benchmark cred, scaling the Tucker Max “heights” seems to be / have been some sort of THING.

    He’s now making his book into a totally controlled by him indie movie (targeting the American Pie type audience) with wide distribution planned for this spring. He plans to go from there in Hollywood. We’ll see. It could flop and it could score big. It will NOT get rave reviews from the NY Times no matter what, of that we can be sure. But the bar drunk is now in his past, except for nostalgic forays.

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  50. There’s a drug coming out soon called Androxal; it’s basically a pill that stimulates your pituitary gland to produce luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH), both of which stimulate the testicles to produce testosterone and sperm. It does this by blocking the androgen receptor on your pituitary gland, fooling it into thinking that your T-levels are low. It’s essentially like Clomid for men; bodybuilders use Clomid, the female fertility drug, to raise their T after a cycle.

    Apparently, the drug’s development was motivated by the need for something for young men who want to father children. Young men w/ T2 diabetes often have low testosterone levels, and this medication is primarily for them.

    I’m sure this drug, plus rigorous weightlifting, will turn many previous fat-guy betas, into alphas.

    Speaking of which, since we’re talking about testosterone, can someone explain to me how Leonardo DiCaprio pulls in so much hot ass? Gisele Bundchen, Bar Refaeli, hell the guy was linked to Demi Moore years ago (obviously she’s got a thing for man-boys–Ashton Kutcher). I mean, just looking at him, it’s obvious his testosterone levels are nonexistent, yet he pulls them in like James Bond. I guess fame and money are all you need to attract women.

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  51. Zylonet is very misleading.

    TRT is for hypogonadal males. Going on TRT permanently will shut down your testicles.

    do you cycle zylonet?

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  52. “Is there a way to increase free T, while keeping E and DHT low? I know AI can keep the E in check, and Fina can do the same with DHT, but Finasteride is a competitive blocker. In other words, any increase in T will be accompanied by an increase in DHT. Seems like you’re doubly screwed if you suffer from MPB.”

    I don’t have MPB in my family so it is not a concern for me. I started 5-6 years ago and settled on a therapy with my Dr.; I have since forgotten much of the extended research. I think you can find a great deal of info by inquiring on the
    men’s health board at Mesomorphosis:
    http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/

    you might also check with John Crisler, D.O. who offers TRT
    http://www.allthingsmale.com

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  53. “to Zylonet,

    -I assume you first ruled out a pituitary adenoma?
    -Did you actually have any symptoms? like anemia, osteoporosis, ED, fatigue, anhedonia, decreased glucose tolerance?
    -Did you try a gym membership before you started T replacement?
    -Are you not concerned about supressed fertility, or testicular atrophy?
    -Have you been hitting on underage girls?, losing your temper frequently?, divorce? or having other psychosocial problems?”

    When I fell ill, it was me and the wife against the world. My first indication was a lowering of erectile peformance and general fatigue. I travelled far and wide to consult with acclaimed Dr.s only to find them ineffectual, if not incompetent. Generally speaking the medical profession is so insular to competition, that most Dr.’s are ill prepared to work and research or to answer sophisticated questions. Fortunately, through the blood tests I was able to deduce that my symptoms were likely related to decreasing testosterone. A young Endo was the one who found the cause and everything else was ruled-out.

    Regarding fertility, mine is fine and has remained fine in part because of the HCG which also mitigates testicular atrophy. When I don’t use HCG, I have some shrinkage, but less than 33%.

    As for things like losing temper, I found those to be more symptomatic of low T rather than high-normal T.

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  54. “Zylonet is very misleading. TRT is for hypogonadal males. Going on TRT permanently will shut down your testicles. do you cycle zylonet?”

    No, I don’t cycle. There is no need to cycle testosterone when using it as replacement or augmentation therapy which is my chosen course.

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  55. 54 Bluto

    Speaking of which, since we’re talking about testosterone, can someone explain to me how Leonardo DiCaprio pulls in so much hot ass?

    He’s a pretty boy. A lot of girls like that. Orlando Bloom is the same way.

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  56. Bear in mind that the only society with a near-Western standard of living to go totally Alpha/Beta bonkers was Yugoslavia, and the result was genocide and rape camps. Dragunovs and T-72s mean a special kind of bad when everything is up for grabs by the bad boys with guns, and in fact the destruction of coastal Croatia showed a social divide: poor rural highland Serbs ruthlessly bombarding prosperous coastal Croatian Dubrovnik, starting with the yachts in the harbor and the chic cars in the hotel parking lots. Of course our society has much more diffuse loci of power and influence, so people (except in Los Angeles, perhaps) are less likely to turn to the gun, and it is more likely that “our” betas are going to be kept down (by the prison-industrial complex at the extreme, by imbrication in society’s “day jobs” in the aggregate) rather than launch The Apocalypse.

    I would suggest the book _Guyland_, which is drawing attention on other blogs, for a quick survey of why young men are getting stuck in juvenalia. In brief, society now extracts the maintenance fee of patriarchy without furnishing the compensatory rewards, since women have–by and large–isolated themselves from that system. Young men, however, are still entrenched in it, especially since to exit is emasculating.

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  57. The other thing that struck me as being exceptionally cruel is that the betas are being punished for CARING, that is, the low-status “tells” like nervousness and excessive obsequiousness could be replaced by a deadpan indifference which would only RAISE their attractiveness. Disabused cynicism or a truly sociopathic flatness/lack of empathy would not be as off-putting as the puppy-dogging “hoping against hope.” The nervousness comes from not getting what one SHOULD BE ABLE TO, and the self-blame, so shifting the nervousness to anger (or Ted Bundy ice) and the blame to where it truly lies should DETACH judgement of the self and hence outcome dependence.

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  58. 38, monohechomierda,

    I know you were complimenting me. Thanks. I make jokes all the time though so don’t take anything I say seriously. We’re cool

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  59. agnostic said:
    Politeness is another one. Asking her what she wants, holding or watching her things, fetching something she wants, stepping aside to let her pass, etc.

    Oftentimes when a girl is blocking your way, she *wants* you to bump into her. Hell, the 5′1 gymnast in sweatpants or the 5′9 banker chick is hoping you’ll even body-check her Lemmonex knows what I’m talking about.

    Palin is really good at memorization and regurgitation. Sometimes it seems as if she is reading from a teleprompter.

    Are you for real??? There are exceptions to every rule, and I am certainly one here. If some guy purposely bumped into me, I would assume he was trying to attack me or he is some kind of pervert. Some women will mace you, cut you or call the police for such an attack.

    I really need to see what Lemonex has to say about this. I view some strange man body checking me as an assault. Even with a boyfriend, I’m not one for wrestling, play fighting and slapping
    .

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  60. Very, VERY good points Eurosabra. VERY good.

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  61. Zylo:

    Fascinating stuff. Be dropping you a line soon.

    Patrick

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  62. Betas play it straight

    That’s funny since I’ve had women say that I was too immature and not serious enough. Ooops.

    Oftentimes when a girl is blocking your way, she *wants* you to bump into her.

    If she’s going to play silly games like that, then maybe I don’t want to deal with her lest I be subjected to other silly games in the future. If she wants a guy who’s willing to bump into her, then I am obviously not the partner for her, and that doesn’t bother me.

    Quite frankly, if women don’t like politeness, then I’m not willing to change and become an impolite person in order to chase pussy. Sex isn’t worth changing myself into someone who is stranger when I look in the mirror.

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  63. Bear in mind that the only society with a near-Western standard of living to go totally Alpha/Beta bonkers was Yugoslavia, and the result was genocide and rape camps.

    Isn’t Yugoslavia not an example of betas getting revenge on alphas, but ethnic nationalism and jingoism run amok? The Serbian betas weren’t attacking the Serbian alpha males in revenge, but they were going after Bosnians in order to break the independent state of Bosnia, and annex Serbian portions to Serbia. For all intents and purposes, the Bosnians were just simply in the way for Serbia and Croatia as well.

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  64. LOL on the Yugo stuff – Gavrilo Princip – beta attempts to impress Serb hotti