Henry Louis Gates Junior

We all knew that weirdo loner kid from seventh grade. He was the strange kid who shuffled around the hallways with his head down, and always sat in the desk as far away from everyone else as possible. Sometimes bullies would pick on him, but mostly the other kids ignored him. He hardly ever spoke, and never rose his hand in class to offer an answer to a question. Nobody knew what he was thinking, and nobody cared, not even the teachers. But he nursed silent grudges, lots of them. Grudges against the popular kids he thought were always talking behind his back plotting his demise, against the cute girls who never acknowledged him, against authority figures who didn’t understand his deep deep pain. These grudges would simmer for months, building to a boil, until one day one of the cool kids accidentally bumped into him while he was standing at his locker, and he turned around in a rage, his eyes on fire, and rained blows down upon that kid, screaming obscenities at the top of his cracking voice. The outburst startled everyone who witnessed it. A teacher rushed up, dragging him away from his hapless victim lying on the floor.

Henry Louis Gates Junior is that weirdo loner kid.





Comments


  1. the most stupid post on this blog yet, congrats.

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  2. Why? I know nothing about the guy (apart from having a look on wikipedia…).

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  3. on July 24, 2009 at 11:16 am Seeking Alpha

    Stu – He’s in the news because of an incident this week involving a disorderly conduct charge. Obama commented on it during his press conference.

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  4. I know the cop in question. I posted about it on my blog and HS.

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  5. Sorry feministX, but I won’t give you the satisfaction of a hit. Just post your thoughts here.

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  6. Can’t a black man break into his own house in America? Apparently not. You got your white neighbors calling the police on you in case something suspicious is going on. The nerve. And then the President of the United States has to get your back. Otherwise the man would be locked up and facing an all-white jury surrounded by loud, oscllating fans and sweaty lawyers.

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  7. “Sorry feministX, but I won’t give you the satisfaction of a hit. Just post your thoughts here.”

    Whatever. I’d hit it.

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  8. Yeah, I’ve gotta agree with Anon.

    I’m a fan of this blog, but this is the worst post ever on here.

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  9. Agreed. So, so, so, so much truth.

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  10. So far, the police officer is Alpha of the Month candidate.

    Refuses to apologize. And pretty much told 0bama to go fuck himself.

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  11. on July 24, 2009 at 11:22 am Dr. Grzlickson

    I think Obama is baiting the right to take up this issue. It made no sense for him to address it after talking about health care for an hour. He obviously wanted it to be the final question.

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  12. Should he have taken this silently with head bowed like a good house-negro?

    If you look at his Wikipedia profile, this dude has accomplished a lot in life. He hasn’t been anything near an anti-social beta.

    The policeman is not alpha. Douchebag does not equal alpha, even if he does agree with your right-wing politics.

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  13. Good article on Slate today about this:

    http://www.slate.com/id/2223472/

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  14. I think Obama is baiting the right to take up this issue.

    If that’s what he’s doing, he’s an idiot. This is pretty much another Duke Lacrosse thing where the white guy is 100% in the right and his accuser a liar.

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  15. Gates is an idiot who should have shut his mouth and thanked the cop for checking in to make sure everything was okay. The cop was doing his job, and the arrogance of Gates and his following the cop out and being a dipshit about the whole is what got his ass justifiably arrested.

    I voted for Obama and am a fan, but he’s wrong on this issue and the more information that comes out over this, the more it appears Gates is a self-aggrandizing idiot.

    That’s said, he’s a brilliant scholar. But just as having a hot body doesn’t make you that interesting, have a good work ethic and smart mind doesn’t make you a good person whose ass needs to be kissed.

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  16. http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1186764

    The police have the tapes of the arrest. All the dispatches back and forth between Crowley and the dispatcher are on tape. I’d like to see these released.

    Gates says he wasn’t yelling and screaming at the cop, but a photo shows him to appear to be yelling.

    The tapes being released to the public could let everybody know pretty much what transpired so the public could determine in their own minds if anyone was out-of-line.

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  17. Obama’s advisors are surely trying to muzzle him, but he can’t help himself. He spent too many years “community organizing” in Chicago to see anything other than race in a situation like this.

    Fortunately, the policeman in question has actually *taught* classes on avoiding racial profiling, and has gotten commendations from his mostly black superiors. He was doing his job by the book and a jet-lagged man blew up in his face (according to Gates’s own story). Even Mickey Kaus isn’t defending Gates on this.

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  18. Yeah, wait, Roissy, this guy is a *scholar* an academe in the hallowed Ivory Towers of Harvard where he teaches, uh…
    Science, er no.
    Math, er no.
    Medicine, er no.
    Law, er no.
    Did he counsel Will Hunting back to mental health?, er no.
    Does he gaze through a telescope at distant stars or under a microscope at our genes?, er no.
    He is an afro-centrist scholar…which means he basically gets paid to yell about the police. And promote socialism.
    Anyway, it’s disingenuous for the media to sanctify this huckster’s tenure.

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  19. Crowley is a chivalrous sort of alpha. I was hesitant about taking my case forward but he pretty much took charge and made it happen.

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  20. you’re right.

    blacks are so “beta.”

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  21. on July 24, 2009 at 11:38 am megatron Jones

    Of course, if you believe everything the officer has said, this post makes a world of sense. The only way we’d know what happened is if we were there. Is there video of the incident? Some of the pictures i’ve seen looked to me to be stills from a video.

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  22. I’m puzzled by this post. Unless someone can come up with some fresh circumstantial details of the case, or I’ve missed something of the available information, I would like to know why Obama is wrong in saying:

    I think it’s fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry; number two, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home…

    What is Gates supposed to have done to justify getting arrested when there was already proof that they were in their own home?

    Even setting aside the fact that the officer conducts a sensitivity-training course entitled “Racial Profiling”, I still don’t see how his judgment in arresting Gates (again, when there was already proof that they were in their own home) can be endorsed. (Which is not necessarily to say that an apology is owed.)

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  23. The left tried to pull a Fuhrman on Crawley. Might not be so easy in this case.

    By the way, isn’t it wild how Mark Fuhrman was about the only decent human benig in the whole OJ Simpson saga, and he was the only one who came out of it with a felony conviction?

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  24. on July 24, 2009 at 11:45 am megatron Jones

    @Rob,

    I think they’re saying that the arrest was made after Gates followed the officer into the yard making a ruckus, thus the disorderly conduct charge. I’m not an officer, so I don’t know exactly what that means, but i’d assume that’s what the charge stems from. If that’s the case, proving that he was in his own home is irrelevant.

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  25. on July 24, 2009 at 11:45 am Seeking Alpha

    Should he have taken this silently with head bowed like a good house-negro?

    Taken what silently? They got a call of a break-in and they asked to see ID. What part of that requires acting like an animal.

    I also find it hilarious that despite the fact that this guy is a ‘distinguished’ Harvard professor, he still couldn’t help himself to dropping ‘your mama’. How crass.

    It’s not about race, it’s about class. If the same thing happened to a white electrician from Southie, not only would he still have been arrested but the charges wouldn’t have been dropped before a court hearing.

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  26. on July 24, 2009 at 11:47 am Seeking Alpha

    @ Rob

    Rob, he wasn’t arrested for breaking in, he was arrested for disorderly conduct. I’m amazing at how many people have made the same disingenuous argument Rob has.

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  27. Uh oh. Racial Holy Thread comin up….

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  28. Gates is among the most prominent academics in the country. It’s beneath him to be vilifying some guy just doing his job.

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  29. Anyone even remotely defending Gates or accusing Crowley is a moron.

    The officer, Crowley, responded to a report of a burglarly, showed up, and question the man, Gates, in the home where the burglarly was suspected to be taking place. Once the man identified himself via ID (and the officer identified himself on request), the officer wanted to leave.

    But Gates was sure it wasn’t a “report” of a robbery, but a police officer randomly demanding his ID for no reason other than harassment—based on what logic, only Gates and other paranoid delusionals have; Gates was even told of the reported burglarly. And Gates himself admitted to the police officer that the front door was broken into (whether this was by another burgaler or by Gates trying to get into his own home remains questionable).

    So Gates flew off the handle, yelling at Crowley, threatening him. Crowley realized Gates was escalating, and knew he 1) had to get out of that house, because he was no longer lawful to be there and 2) needed to get out in open, where witnesses could support his story (because he realzied Gates was delusionally angry). Probably 3) as well: he didn’t know if Gates was loony enough to grab a household object and start swinging.

    So Crowley went outside, and Gates pursued, escalating, yelling, and threatening. The other officers, campus police and regular police, saw the whole thing, and Gates would not stop. So Crowley arrested Gates—in full view of cops of various hues, including a black one—for disorderly conduct.

    That’s right—Gates WAS NOT arrested for being in his own home, as some lefties claim. He was arrested for DISORDERLY CONDUCT—which he himself caused by behaving like Dale from King of the Hill for the boys in blue.

    Crowley himself 1) teaches the anti-racial profiling classes of his force; 2) is fully supported by the black head of the Cambridge police; and 3) once gave life saving aid to black Boston Celtic great Reggie Lewis.

    Basically, Gates picked the absolute wrong honky pig to lay his false charges of racism against; Gates should be thankful they came to his house to INVESTIGATE A CRIME AND PROTECT HIM instead of blaming Crowley for his crazy delusions.

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  30. Rob…obfuscation is obvious. The guy acted like a lunatic.

    Cogsys…he is not a prominent academic. He doesn’t study anything, he is a professional complainer. He lasted a month in law school. What books has he written? Who are his students? Who has benefited from his teachings?

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  31. Rob, Nobama is wrong because the police officer did not act stupidly; he followed protocol when it comes to investigating a burglary, trying to de-escalate a witness, and arresting disorderly conduct.

    NotMyPresident basically is saying that his friends should get special treatment from the cops and be allowed to prattle on insanely, threaten, and disturb the peace. Solely because they are NotMyPresident’s friends. And NotMyPresident took it further by personally attacking the cop and calling him stupid.

    As he proves every day, NotMyPresident is the “stupid” one.

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  32. on July 24, 2009 at 11:54 am Seeking Alpha

    3) once gave life saving aid to black Boston Celtic great Reggie Lewis.

    Attempted. The guy didn’t make it.

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  33. Gates is a businessman, pure and simple. He saw a white working class Irish cop and instantly saw dollar signs. Gates is playing this perfectly. Getting a chance to be the victim is worth far more than tenure, or even 20 books.

    There’s an important principle at stake. A wealthy black professional victim and his chauffeur should be allowed to break into any one of their homes whether it’s Cambridge or Martha’s Vineyard.

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  34. I would like to know why Obama is wrong in saying:

    I think it’s fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry;

    A policeman came to my door once when I accidentally set off the alarm when I was moving in. I showed him my ID, explained the situation, and he left. When I answered the door, he actually had his hand on his pistol, ready to draw it. I did not get angry, and I was glad he came to check things out.

    Getting angry at the police for doing their job is wrong and stupid.

    number two, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home…

    They arrested him for being an asshole, not for being in his own house.

    Obama was stupid to express an opinion at all about this situation. Is this really something the President should know about and inject himself into? But to express an ignorant opinion just made him look like a complete tool.

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  35. All Gates had to do was ask the police officer to “Get off my Property”. And just keep repeating that mantra, “Get off my property.” That’s all that was needed after he provided identification… “Get off my property”.

    But of course, he had what Aaron McGruder describes as a “nigga moment”.

    Please see this video for reference:

    How it affects an educated black man:

    So yes Roissy, this isn’t about bullies, but more of an ailment of black american culture.

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  36. Pupu wonders, in a situation like that, whether it is legal (and wiser) for a police to force the person into a mental institution instead of arresting him.

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  37. Seeking Alpha,

    That, duh, is what I want to see more information about — the alleged disorderly conduct…

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  38. Gates is among the most prominent academics in the country

    Yeah, among the most prominent race-hustling charlatans and intellectual frauds. What a surprise he should take advantage of an opportunity to manufacture a “racist outrage” when he personally benefits from the perception that racist outrages are common in AmeriKKKa!

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  39. on July 24, 2009 at 12:01 pm Seeking Alpha

    Rob

    It’s not ‘duh’ because you were fixated on the ‘already showed ID’ issue. You didn’t ask ‘well was it really disorderly?’ and neither did the President.

    Here is the police report.

    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates1.html

    I’m also guessing that if he wasn’t being disorderly, one of the 20 people outside would have said something to the news by now. They’ve been interviewing everyone that has anything to do with the case.

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  40. Seeking Alpha, eh, that’s semantics. I would say he gave “life savign aid” to Lewis, except it was unsuccessful.

    Lewis was my favorite basketball player at the time, one the last few gentlemen on the court/ shooter not bruiser types. Once he died, my interest in the sport died. And everything since then has reinforced my staying away.

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  41. on July 24, 2009 at 12:05 pm O but Not Obsidian

    Stop being a troll Roissy.

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  42. Maybe John McWhorter’s speculations about how the “framing” and “narrative” may have influenced Gates’ behavior would be useful here:

    http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2009/07/22/gates-is-right-and-we-re-not-post-racial-until-he-isn-t.aspx

    Which, again, doesn’t necessarily mean the officer owes an apology. But it might mean Gates’ response is predictable enough that we should expect police departments to be sensitizing officers to the “framing” and “narrative” likely to come into play in such circumstances.

    [editor: perhaps blacks should be sensitizing themselves to the framing and narrative likely to come into play when police officers have to respond to calls involving blacks who as a race commit crimes way out of proportion to their population share.]

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  43. The only reason Obama weighed in on this is to distract us from the government takover of the healthcare industry. Looks like it worked, too.

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  44. on July 24, 2009 at 12:10 pm Seeking Alpha

    Rob

    Either the disorderly conduct charge was legitimate or it wasn’t. I don’t know what the legal line is you have to cross for it to be applicable.

    But that line is not different for people of different colors. If yelling at a police officer, after several warnings to stop, is illegal, then why would the historical relationship between cops and blacks effect the legitimacy of the sentence?

    Like a lot of black studies or womens studies, the above paragraph you wrote says a lot of words without saying anything. This is really a very simple case and in no way should the ‘framing’ of the situation effect the legitimacy of the arrest.

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  45. MMI, fuck, you know…you’re right. Now Obama will never be able to stop predatory tonsillectomies from occurring. I think his idiotic, uninformed statement on Gates actually saved his ass because his sales pitch for passing a yet-to-be-written-let-alone-read bill restructuring the American economy was so lame. He should be thankful he managed to wipe that slate clean.

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  46. Seeking Alpha:
    “But that line is not different for people of different colors.”
    —-the problem is that most liberals actually do believe the lines are different; blacks should be held to a lower legal standard than non-blacks in most situations for them.

    I was once in a movie theater in NYC where some black kids insisted on yelling back at the screen and chattering on the cell phone. I got so fed up that I told them to shut up. They got quiet until some SWPL told them, loudly, that it was fine for them to drown out the movie because “black culture” was about that, and they had different rules from everyone else.

    So, they being 14 year old kids, started back up.

    its the same logic of liberals that leads to hate crime legislation or quota systems: different rules for different races.

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  47. I also think the post is a bit off. It’s not that Gates was an oddball, or bullied, or insecure – as others have said, it’s that he’s wrapped up in race-indentity politics,

    [editor: race identity politics is the ultimate grudge.]

    a prominent peddler of it, which includes the victimization narrative. that’s why he blew up. At this point in history, you’d think it would be possible to write, talk and lecture about this subject without a massive chip on the shoulder. Apparently not. Maybe the charged intellectual environment of Harvard invites and accentuates some of the preening and paranoia. (I recall Cornel West got into trouble there a few years ago, for reasons with a similar emotional underpinning, and ended up leaving the University.) The cop seems to have conducted himself perfectly, and I hope they release the tapes.

    That said – groan. Another race thread. Over and out for today, folks.

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  48. on July 24, 2009 at 12:21 pm megatron Jones

    @lurker

    As a black man, i’m calling you bitch-made for not tossing your popcorn at that assclown.

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  49. on a completely separate note: last night I went to a party, and left with a girl to her hotel room. After a few rounds of stupendous sex late into the night, she revealed that she was a call girl, and that’s why she had the hotel room; (also, told me we had to leave the room at 5am, since she was high tailing out of town; no, not a line, she left with me with her stuff).

    Question: should I be elated with fantastic sex for free from a girl that charges, or should I be in ever STD clinic in the city right now?

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  50. megatron, be nice. I was younger and more beta; I even had a feminist girlfriend at the time. Journey of a thousand miles, you know….

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  51. Seeking Alpha — It’s not about race, it’s about class. If the same thing happened to a white electrician from Southie, not only would he still have been arrested but the charges wouldn’t have been dropped before a court hearing.

    That’s partly right but worse.

    Gates was clearly arrested because he was dissing the cop in a big way. We can await the details from a video tape or whatever about how much he was dissing the cop, or whatever.

    The fact is that white guys, including respectable upper middle class white guys, who go out of their way to diss and an on duty cop who’s legitimately investigating a possible crime, will get arrested too, and charged with either dissorderly conduct and maybe also resisting arrest if he makes any protests while being arrested and you’ve really pissed him or her off. Legal purists can argue whether that should be, but that’s the way it is. Unless you’re a well known politician or something.

    Gates is really trying to assert a special privlege here BECAUSE he’s black, likely to raise a paranoid ruckus about this, and therefore should be sufficiently kowtowed to so he won’t.

    BTW, racial profiling like all other profiling is perfectly justified in investigating crime, so long as it’s combined with other evidence and is done in a sophisticated and accurate way. Blacks do commit murder at approximately 7x the rate, and other violent crime at 4x the rate of whites, and more than those multiples compared to Asians in this country. Their rape rate is IIRC similar to their murder rate, comparatively.

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  52. on July 24, 2009 at 12:29 pm deTocqueville

    This post is idiotic and I am now dumber for having read it.

    I bet if you support Sgt. Crowley’s position, it’s 99% likely you’re white. I bet if you’re a black male, it’s 99% likely that you support Gates’s position.

    As an Asian American male, I see the merits of both sides.

    Black men have been profiled and disrespected their entire lives so I understand why Gates would have been excessively angry for having white policemen question his residence at that home. Did he have a chip on his shoulder? Probably, but given the history of race relations in this country, it’s understandable. Sgt. Crowley could’ve just said, “My name is Sgt. Crowley and my badge number is #X. This is clearly your home and there has been a misunderstanding” and then have taken off without agitating Gates any more. But of course, police officers have to adopt that macho, alpha attitude and not take guff from anyone.

    White men, on the other hand, are sick and tired of the race card being played and for being scapegoated for all of society’s ills and history when they had no direct hand in perpetrating any of it. They believe that Sgt. Crowley was just doing his job and following procedures and it was Gates’s fault for being loud, boisterous and escalating tensions. Gates could’ve simply said, “Thanks for doing your job” and headed back inside.

    As someone is neither black or white, I think:

    1. Both sides should be empathetic and put themselves in the shoes of the other.
    2. Gates probably acted excessively but given that he’s a black man in America, I understand why he may have a chip on his shoulder.
    3. Crowley probably could have defused the situation by simply leaving but given that he’s a police officer, there’s probably pressure to accept attitude from no one.

    Was race a factor in this situation? Yes and no.

    Yes, in the sense that Gates’s identity as a black man influenced his behavior in response to white cops.

    No, in the sense that Crowley is not a racist in the traditional sense of the word.

    Yes, in the sense that NO ONE is colorblind and WE ALL incorporate race as one of many factors to assess as we go about our lives. Incorporating race does not have to be negative and can be neutral. White folks tend to bristle at any notion of race and want to believe that color does not exist. Blacks, on the other hand, are too sensitive and defensive about, to the point that whites are scared of talking about race honestly in front of blacks. Hopefully, we can get to a point in society where we meet in the middle.

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  53. Gates and by extension Obama are going to lose this one big-time. The clue is that the people who were there as witnesses or who have reviewed the tapes are either unapologetically backing the cop or are discretely silent. This state of affairs would be inconceivable if the facts were even slightly on the side of Gates.

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  54. maurice–

    I also think the post is a bit off. It’s not that Gates was an oddball, or bullied, or insecure – as others have said, it’s that he’s wrapped up in race-indentity politics, a prominent peddler of it, which includes the victimization narrative. that’s why he blew up.

    Yuup. Just so.

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  55. deTocqueville, you’re a tool. Crowley identified himself 3 times. You’re also an apologist for antisocial behavior only based on race.

    Go back to commune and hug somebody, hippie.

    Read my post above—Crowley is the last white police officer Gates could ahve laid this on. But you’re probably too stupid to understand that.

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  56. I blogged about this incident and “institutional racism”.

    Institutional Racism: The Chimera of African Studies Depts

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  57. Rum–

    Yes. But.

    The press will then immediately bury it.

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  58. Well, after reading the “narrative” linked above (by Seeking Alpha), I concede it does indeed appear that it would be wrongly concessive for the officer to apologize, and the decision to arrest was within reasonable discretionary limits. At the same time, I still think, in light of the “framing” and “narrative” issues raised by McWhorter, that Roissy’s post is too reductive.

    [editor: perhaps blacks should be sensitizing themselves to the framing and narrative likely to come into play when police officers have to respond to calls involving blacks who as a race commit crimes way out of proportion to their population share.]

    Agreed. (Especially after having once lived in crime-ridden, downtown Savannah, Georgia, where even living across from the police department didn’t spare me.) Maybe it’s expecting too much to think that the Harvard ID should have deactivated the framing and narrative in question.

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  59. It is not really a black/white thing as much as an activist black/ blue collar white thing.

    Pretty much every white person in the Ivy League, Hollywood, or otherwise SWPL will take Gates’ side. On the other hand, Black people who are sick of this whole greivance industry because it makes them all look like whiners and the ‘cry wolf’ element hurts people who really are victims of racist police will take the officer’s side.

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  60. on July 24, 2009 at 12:36 pm megatron Jones

    @doug1

    I don’t think racial profiling is ever justified in investigating a crime “combined with other evidence.” I don’t think the person’s race should be the reason for harassment or their looking “suspicious.” Just because a black man happens to be in a certain neighborhood isn’t grounds to pull him over; however, i would agree that a black man in a backward cap, low slung jeans standing beside a donk in certain areas would be grounds for questioning, I’d just hope that a mulleted white man driving an IROC through the same neighborhood would get the same attention.

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  61. deTocqueville

    I see all your points. Could have made them all myself, though you made them very well.

    However, unless nobody is going to get arrested for getting all up in a cops face and dissing him. Gates should have been arrested.

    He’s in effect asking for special handling because 1) he’s black and pissed, and 2) obviously a respectable member of society with status.

    A white guy with the same status who made equally taunting and dissing remarks would also have gotten arrested. In fact may have been more likely to have been since the cop wouldn’t then worry about a political backlash in a place like the People’s Republic of Cambridge, Mass., or from the Obama adoring national media.

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  62. One time, I was driving across the country, west to east. It was the middle of the winter. I had just crossed the Arkansas state line when a state trooper pulled me over.

    I had nothing wrong with my car, no broken tail lights, nothing.

    The trooper told me that they were stopping all cars with out of state plates, and checking them for drugs. They asked me if they could search my vehicle, I said sure. They told me they wanted to bring a drug dog by for a sniff, I said sure. I waited for an hour, till they told me that the drug dog was called to another location, and I was free to go. I drove away and vowed never to go through Arkansas again, if I could help it.

    The only reason they didn’t tear my car apart and leave me standing by a pile of junk in the snow was that I didn’t lose my cool.

    And I’m white, btw.

    The moral of this story: The police do not exist to protect individual rights, they exist to enforce the laws and protect THE STATE (as affirmed by the supreme court.)

    So stop all the fucking bitching. The police don’t owe you shit. Not courtesy, not politeness, nothing.

    They are not your protectors. They are not your friends.

    That’s why they miranda you when you get arrested. To inform you of the very few rights you have: The right to shut the fuck up, and the right to an attorney. That’s it. No right to demand an explaination, no right to politeness, no right to argue your case in the street, or yell at the cops.

    The only people who think that the police have to play by some unwritten rulebook of civility are people who have very little contact with the police.

    This is not a racial thing. SWPL white folks try to pull this same shit, and end up getting arrested. They can’t claim racism, like Gates can, but they would if they could.

    Gates is a moron. If he wasn’t a friend of Obama, he’d still be in jail.

    Or he’d be dead.

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  63. mandy-

    otherwise SWPL will take Gates’ side.

    It’s a political and PC thing not a class thing per se.

    I’m thoroughly SWPL in class, upbringing and education. Not in politics or fawning (or scared) PC.

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  64. OneSTDV

    I blogged about this incident and “institutional racism”.

    I just LOVE “institutional racism”. It may be my single favorite PC construct.

    “Institutional racism” as defined by doug1:

    That leftist black box by which all embarrassing continuing differences in performance by various underperforming racial or ethnic groups, which cannot any longer be easily explained by obvious and widespread negative discrimination or other overt actions against them, can nonetheless be attributed NOT to any genetic or cultural traits which these groups themselves possess (that would be “blaming the victim” *shudder*, which we all know is too horrid a violation of cultural Marxism otherwise known as PC to contemplate for one second except to condemn unreservedly), BUT INSTEAD to an endlessly vague and elusive concept who’s sole solid characteristic is that it’s entirely the fault and somehow within the control of the Euro white majority. (Who after all crafted those “institutions”? That much seems unassailable. Hence the phrase.)

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  65. deTocqueville, I am not white either, and I do not understand the basis for believing this case has anything to do with racial profiling. What is the evidence for believing that a white man who acted this way would not have received the same treatment?

    Perhaps it is wrong for the cops to arrest an angry man in his own house, but I doubt a belligerent white man would be less likely to get arrested.

    Like


  66. On the other hand, Black people who are sick of this whole greivance industry because it makes them all look like whiners and the ‘cry wolf’ element hurts people who really are victims of racist police will take the officer’s side.

    I call Bullshit.

    Like


  67. deTocqueville-“Black men have been profiled and disrespected their entire lives”

    Nice blanket generalization.

    Don’t bother to provide any proof.

    Just add your voice to the chorus of bullshit.

    You defeat your own argument by tossing out statements like that and this:

    “Both sides should be empathetic and put themselves in the shoes of the other.”

    Yeah, the police need to be empathetic. I guess that’s why they carry firearms, so that they can ’empathize’ with the people they meet.

    Another fucking moron.

    Like


  68. megatron Jones

    I don’t think racial profiling is ever justified in investigating a crime “combined with other evidence.”

    Oh yes you do.

    You said so yourself further on:

    however, i would agree that a black man in a backward cap, low slung jeans standing beside a donk in certain areas would be grounds for questioning, I’d just hope that a mulleted white man driving an IROC through the same neighborhood would get the same attention.

    If it’s legitimate for cops to focus more on men than women (while not excluding women as possible suspects) for certain sorts of crimes, due to the ratio of who statistically commits them, the same thing should apply to racial profiling.

    However simply being black shouldn’t be enough to give rise to questioning in the vast majority of cases.

    Like


  69. PA

    I call Bullshit.

    They may be small in number, but they exist. The media won’t give them the time of day (some have complained for example that CNN interviewed them for Black In America but wouldn’t write about their success stories or anything that doesn’t portray blacks as perpetual victims.)

    Like


  70. So, Gates has been profiled his entire life? Please. He’s lived in college towns since the mid-80’s. Hardly high crime areas. Profiling allegedly occurs in high crime areas which also happen to be, uh, areas that have other statistical oddities…like high crime.

    This lunatic obviously failed the Chris Rock steps to not getting your ass beat by the police.

    He also decided to escalate a routine interaction with the police into “a symbol of all racism everywhere at all times.”

    Upon being informed that the cop was responding to a break-in report, he said “why because I am a black man in America?” So, he’s pissed at racial issue and at America. Just another cancer on America metastasizing in the Ivy League.

    Like


  71. on July 24, 2009 at 12:54 pm deTocqueville

    @doug1 — Good points. I agree that a white guy who made equally taunting remarks would likely have gotten arrested as well. Still, Crowley could’ve de-escalated the tension if understood the racial implications involved (which he should have since he taught racial profiling courses).

    @lurker — You’re a twat and you provide no value whatsoever. You’re telling me that Crowley, surrounded by other police officers, couldn’t leave the front yard because he was prevented by a 58-year-old man who walks with a cane? I have no doubt that Gates was probably being loud and offensive but it’s entirely within Crowley’s discretion whether to arrest him — Gates was certainly a threat to no one. That Crowley chose to stay and engage in a tit-for-tat with Gates and then escalate the tension with an arrest was the “stupid” act that Obama was referring to.

    Like


  72. A white guy with the same status who made equally taunting and dissing remarks would also have gotten arrested. (doug1)

    But what equivalent is there to the complaint of being a victim of racism for a white guy to belligerently spout off when dealing with a cop? I think of the accusation, when it appears as a verbal gesture, as typically defensive. And while the officer apparently exercised reasonable discretion in deciding to arrest, I nevertheless can’t help but wonder a bit why he didn’t instead simply leave. I guess the audio may give a more vivid sense of Gates’ ‘disorderliness’.

    Like


  73. Mandy, now that you explained your comment more, I agree with you.

    Like


  74. RTFM, people, Crowley walked outside and Gates followed him, still being an asshat. Gates was warned he was being disorderly and faced arrest for being outside and making a scene.

    Taking Gate’s “side” (whatever his excuse is right now) shows an irrational fear of the popo. Yeah, cops can abuse their discretion and you can find yourself charged with contempt of cop, but in this case Gates was wrong.

    Like


  75. deTocqueville, being the stupid hippie he is:

    ” You’re telling me that Crowley, surrounded by other police officers, couldn’t leave the front yard because he was prevented by a 58-year-old man who walks with a cane?”
    –Straw man, bullshit artist. Gates never physically prevented Crowley from leaving, nor is that an issue. Make up something else, boy.

    “I have no doubt that Gates was probably being loud and offensive but it’s entirely within Crowley’s discretion whether to arrest him”
    —and he did not abuse his discretion.

    “Gates was certainly a threat to no one.”
    —listen up, shit-for-brains—-disorderly conduct isn’t about being threatening, its about being disorderly. Certainly threats, verbal or physical, can be disorderly, which is what a maniacally shouting Grandpa Simpson like Gates was. But you probably believe black people should be allowed different rules, you SWPLer.

    “That Crowley chose to stay and engage in a tit-for-tat with Gates and then escalate the tension with an arrest was the “stupid” act that Obama was referring to.”
    —-WRONG. Crowley did not “engage in a tit for tat” and no one who witnessed it says he did. Crowley tried to 1) get information from Gates; and then 2) Calm gates down. Gates was screaming ridiculous accusations and obscenities at Crowley.

    You liberal bitch, come back when you have facts, not some made up story, on your side.

    Like


  76. Rob, you moron:

    “But what equivalent is there to the complaint of being a victim of racism for a white guy to belligerently spout off when dealing with a cop?”
    —calling a non-white cop racist. But then again, you need something called “facts” on your side, not “delusion,” to claim racism. Gates did not have any facts, he’s a paranoid delusional.

    “I think of the accusation, when it appears as a verbal gesture, as typically defensive.”.
    —-lol. or paranoid and attacking

    “And while the officer apparently exercised reasonable discretion in deciding to arrest, I nevertheless can’t help but wonder a bit why he didn’t instead simply leave.”
    —because, idiot, there was a loud, verbally abusive, crazy Grandpa Simpson on his front porch yelling nonsense and causing a ruckus when the officer was actually doing work on behalf of Grandpa Simpson.

    “I guess the audio may give a more vivid sense of Gates’ ‘disorderliness’.”
    —The known facts alone say what a nut Gates is.

    Like


  77. doug

    I see, I think misused SWPL (single white politically liberal vs stuff white people like = middle class, educated people)

    Pa, you may find this interesting:

    http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-303137

    I don’t agree with all of it but mostly she is good. She says Obama was irresponsible to say the police acted “stupidly” because “The last thing the black community needs now is less trust of police officers.”

    Like


  78. on July 24, 2009 at 1:04 pm deTocqueville

    Sorry, I was a little loose with my words.

    I didn’t mean that all black men have been disrespected every single second of their lives. I should have said, to be more exact, “Many black men have had the experience of being disrespected or profiled on account of their race”.

    Regarding empathy, I didn’t mean that police officers should be more empathetic — that’s ridiculous. I meant that we readers and society members should be empathetic to the viewpoints of others. Unless you believe that you are categorically correct all the time, which is impossible.

    Like


  79. The incident shows the temper tantrums of a privileged man.

    As a middle class white, who has to pay market price for my housing, and use my own money and time for maintenance of “jammed doors”, I would never dare to yell at a cop.

    50 percent of cops are power hungry bastards, the other 50 percent are sadists.

    If a cop is about to leave, my reaction is: “good riddance”! I would never ever do anything to prolong an interaction with a police officer. If they lie to you to entrap you, fine. If you lie to them, it is typically a felony. Given this asymmetry, it is irrational to interact with cops if avoidable. If I observed a crime, I would probably “close my eyes”, as I have no trust that the admission of being in the proximity does not make me a suspect.

    Since cops can shoot suspects driving away from a traffic stop and claim their life was in danger, even if they are standing way to the side of the vehicle, and be cleared of wrongdoing, it means any cop is allowed to use disproportional lethal force to take out his frustrations when presented with infractions on his authority.

    Cops can make up bogus charges like “Resisting arrest as the ONLY charge”, and the docile press will report the incident without noticing the obvious irony!

    I have no respect for Gates, and his behavior either shows privilege or low intelligence, as police are generally allowed by the pet of Gates (the press) to make bogus arrest charges whenever someone don’t follow their orders.

    Like


  80. deTocqueville:
    “Many black men have had the experience of being disrespected or profiled on account of their race”.
    —proof?

    ” I meant that we readers and society members should be empathetic to the viewpoints of others”
    —such as the viewpoint that a black man can accuse anyone of racism for ever doing their job correctly? Go blow a yak, son.

    “Unless you believe that you are categorically correct all the time, which is impossible.”
    —SWPLers like you always do.

    Like


  81. When you interact with the police, on any level, you would be wise to regard them as you would a dangerous animal:

    Don’t provoke them, and minimize your contact.

    If you don’t, you’re going to get bitten.

    Or eaten.

    Like


  82. Realist, another paranoid delusional:

    “50 percent of cops are power hungry bastards, the other 50 percent are sadists.”

    –and 100% of posters named realists are small-minded simpletons who make up personality tests for all police officers everywhere.

    Like


  83. “Many black men have had the experience of being disrespected ”

    Everyone has been disrespected for something. If it wasn’t race it would otherwise be their (select as many as apply) looks, weight, height, age, status,class, job, personality, family ….

    They need to just get over it.

    Like


  84. Oh I almost forgot…….Buttplug!

    Like


  85. I find it troubling that so many purported conservatives are endorsing the power of the state to arrest a man on his own porch for “being an asshole.”

    Gates may be a oversensitive jerk, a blowhard and a self-promoter, but none of those things are against the law.

    Police officers aren’t paid to teach us manners. They’re paid — by us — to enforce the law. Once it was clear Gates wasn’t breaking it, Crowley should have sucked it up and left.

    If the thought of a cop arresting a man on his porch for having a crappy attitude doesn’t bother you, this whole “government by the people, for the people” thing might not be your bag.

    I hear North Korea is nice.

    Like


  86. “The trooper told me that they were stopping all cars with out of state plates, and checking them for drugs. They asked me if they could search my vehicle, I said sure.”

    If you didn’t give the cops permission to search your car you would be on your way about 59 minutes sooner.

    Like


  87. @Realist

    Exactly right.

    Like


  88. Why do people keep saying that he was arrested in his house. Cunning nobama slipped that meme into the national consciousness, and it obviously took.

    Like


  89. Cato, yawn. Have you even bothered to read the reports? Crowley was trying to leave, Gates was demanding ID (Crowley ahd already ID’d himself) and Gates was escalating in public, and threatening the officer. He broke the law of being disorderly, the same law you break if you’re ont he corner swearing at the top of your lungs or threatening people across the street.

    Like


  90. lurker wrote: “–and 100% of posters named realists are small-minded simpletons who make up personality tests for all police officers everywhere.”

    You got me there. I don’t have personality analyses of policemen.

    What do you think is the prevailing personality type of a cop?

    Like


  91. on July 24, 2009 at 1:17 pm megatron Jones

    @doug1

    the fact that the person is black or white shouldn’t matter, the suspicion is based more on the fact that they’re wearing dress typically associated with individuals involved in criminal activity. A white/asian/latino dressed in the same outfit and driving the same shitty car in a neighborhood that doesn’t have knee high grass and a honda on blocks in every third yard probably should be paid closer attention to. the fact that the person is black or white should not be part of the equation. In other words, a nigga in a ski mask should be equally as suspicious as a honky in a ski mask.

    A black man in a dress shirt and slacks driving through the neighborhood, not parked as the man in my example was, and not driving a 74 impala with dents in the side shouldn’t be pulled over simply because he’s black just because black people in the ghetto happen to rob, steal, and kill at a higher rate than all other races, regardless of social/financial status.

    I add that because, when people quote these statistics, they’re usually not broken down across those lines and simply used to say every black person is potentially a murderous animal. I know poor people commit more crime, and i’d find it hard to believe that poor black people participate in criminal activity at that much higher of a rate than poor whites in proportion to white and black poverty rates relative to percentage of population. I’d concede the point if i found evidence to the contrary. However, i don’t go searching for this type of stuff, I’ll have to do so on my own time.

    Like


  92. on July 24, 2009 at 1:19 pm Seeking Alpha

    @ Cato

    Agreed in theory but the problem is we really don’t know what it takes to get a ‘disorderly’ charge.

    Now you could be right, what Gates did was legal (if rude), and he shouldn’t have been arrested.

    But if that conduct is grounds for a disorderly arrest… well I wouldn’t like the law, but that’s the legislatures fault, not the cops.

    Like


  93. Realist: “What do you think is the prevailing personality type of a cop?”

    —I don’t speculate on the psychological profile of a vast group of people. Same reason I don’t believe all black people are criminals with no respect for the law, but I know that crime in the black community is rampant.

    Keep trying there.

    Like


  94. Cato, “disorderly conduct” is a law that is on the books, and if you act like a shouting asshole on your porch then the police are, in fact, enforcing the law when they arrest you.

    Like


  95. on July 24, 2009 at 1:22 pm deTocqueville

    @lurker:

    “Many black men have had the experience of being disrespected or profiled on account of their race”.
    —proof?
    — My proof is this attitudinal survey of black male experiences in my back pocket — of course I don’t have proof in the traditional empirical sense but this statement is one that any black man would agree with, let’s leave it that.

    ” I meant that we readers and society members should be empathetic to the viewpoints of others”
    —such as the viewpoint that a black man can accuse anyone of racism for ever doing their job correctly? Go blow a yak, son.
    — If you read my original post, you would have noticed that I was equally empathetic of the white point of view and critical of blacks for being too sensitive, but of course, you’re too busy sucking your own popsicle.

    “Unless you believe that you are categorically correct all the time, which is impossible.”
    —SWPLers like you always do.
    — Again, in my original post, I conceded arguments on both sides and in a later post, qualified a blanket statement I made. You, on the other hand, have never demonstrated the ability to understand the other person’s argument. Which fanatical Glenn Beck types like you never do.

    Like


  96. ok, how about this.

    1. How much abuse should a cop take before you would expect the abusive person to be arrested?

    2. Shouldn’t the President at least know what the fuck he is talking about before he publicly chastises the law enforcement community. Otherwise, a no comment would be the smart thing to do.

    Like


  97. Seeking Alpha writes:

    “It’s not about race..”

    Wrong. Still asleep at the wheel. Terrific.

    Like


  98. on July 24, 2009 at 1:26 pm An Experienced Father

    Rob,

    The John McWhorter’s article got the following comment from a right of center African American guy I correspond with:

    >I read the article. It was interesting, but not especially
    >persuasive. At least not in the sense McWhorter intended
    >it to persuade.
    >
    >Here’s a key sentence: “The relationship between black
    >men and police forces is, in fact, the main thing keeping
    >America from becoming ‘post-racial’ in any sense.”
    >
    >That’s true enough, but McWhorter doesn’t follow it up
    >sufficiently. If he did, he would focus on two related facts:
    >
    >(1) the disproportionate tendency of black men to commit
    >crimes, and
    >
    >(2) the knee-jerk reaction of many blacks to blame their
    >own confrontations with police on police racism.
    >
    >As a result of (1), police approach black men with a higher
    >degree of wariness than normal.
    >
    >As a result of (2), the black man — whether innocent or
    >guilty, but especially if guilty — is more likely to lose his
    >temper during the confrontation than a man of any other
    >race.
    >
    >Not many cops study Shakespeare, but after a few
    >months on the job, all of them understand in their bones
    >the truth of the phrase “Methinks the lady doth protest
    >too much.”
    >
    >I’ve been pulled over by cops twice (both times for driving
    >with expired plates). In both cases, the cop kept his hand
    >on his gun as he approached my car, and was quite
    >insistent that I keep my hands where he could see them.
    >
    >It didn’t bother me.
    >
    >I wasn’t all, “Oh, he thinks I’m some kind of redneck
    >who’s just waiting for a chance to kill a cop;” rather, I
    >was, “God, I’d hate to have the kind of job where
    >somebody you approach just might pull out a gun and
    >start firing.”
    >
    >We’re not going to be post-racial until black men as a
    >group learn to
    >(a) stop breaking the law so often, and
    >
    >(b) stop losing their tempers during encounters with the
    >police.

    I completely understand where he is coming from and why.

    As a somewhat hispanic looking man, pulled over late at night driving a 1979 Chrysler Newport in 1999 I was pulled over at a single officer, interstate, drug check point in Houston.

    The vehicle and the time of day it was travelling fit the “Drug Mule” transport profile so I was stopped and seached.

    No drugs, no priors, and no static from me and I was free to go in 20 minutes.

    Like


  99. deTocqueville

    Still, Crowley could’ve de-escalated the tension if understood the racial implications involved (which he should have since he taught racial profiling courses).

    He could have. It probably occurred to him.

    He probably decided he didn’t want to. But instead wanted to teach Gates the lesson that he isn’t specially privileged because he’s upper middle class and black and able to raise a ruckus. It wouldn’t surprise me if Crowley was specifically taking a stand on that issue.

    BTW, I used to think that cops shouldn’t be able to arrest people on disorderly charges for sufficiently dissing them and continuing to do that. I no longer do. They need to have a certain amount of fear/respect surrounding them. After all, they’re few. (Though networked radio cars can quickly call in many, often enough.) No they shouldn’t be able to beat on someone for dissing them without more. (That happens but shouldn’t.) But arrest him on disorderly, esp. if they then drop it? Yeah.

    Like


  100. on July 24, 2009 at 1:29 pm Seeking Alpha

    Andrew E

    On a complex issue, some people prefer to express themselves clearly and make a cogent argument.

    Other people think they can substitute snark for reason and no one will notice the difference.

    Jon Stewart might get away with it, but you don’t have your own TV show.

    Like


  101. Cato-“I find it troubling that so many purported conservatives are endorsing the power of the state to arrest a man on his own porch for “being an asshole.””

    I’m NOT endorsing it. I hate it.

    But that IS reality.
    To deny reality makes it impossible to change it.

    The police DID arrest him. He’s only getting out of it because of his Obama connection.

    Right or wrong, the police always win. Gates, may not be charged, but he’ll never get the night he spent in jail back.

    Ever.

    sfer-“If you didn’t give the cops permission to search your car you would be on your way about 59 minutes sooner.”

    The fact that you believe that tells me that you have never been stopped as I have.

    If I had refused, they would have arrested me, while they obtained a search warrant. (probable cause: out of state car, refused a routine search request) They would tow my car to a shop where it would have been dismantled, piece by piece. They would have found nothing, and it probably would have only taken 6 months or so to get them to pay for my wrecked car. I’m sure I could have gotten bailed out within 2 or 3 days.

    What you don’t seem to grasp, is that driving a car on a public highway is NOT a right. That’s why you must get a license from the state, to do it. That means the state can stop and search any vehicle they see fit. You can’t refuse, without consequences.

    That’s why DWI ‘checkpoints’ are legal, stupid.

    By all means, the next time the cops ‘ask you for permission’ to search your vehicle, tell them no.

    See what happens.

    Like


  102. mandy writes:

    “On the other hand, Black people who are sick of this whole greivance industry because it makes them all look like whiners and the ‘cry wolf’ element hurts people who really are victims of racist police will take the officer’s side.”

    Mandy, exactly when will this virtuous side (which does exist) of the black community gain political expression? It won’t, unless whites force it to so it’s pointless and wrong to talk about it as if it were a movement with independent energy and influence.

    Like


  103. An Experienced Father:

    Thanks for sharing the response to the McWhorter piece. I agree, but would only add that it’s not just “a result of (2), the black man — whether innocent or guilty, but especially if guilty — is more likely to lose his temper during the confrontation than a man of any other race”, but that the higher than normal degree of wariness (itself indeed caused by the disproportionate tendency of black men to commit
    crimes) contributes to it (the greater likelihood of losing one’s temper), too. There’s a circularity to the causation.

    Like


  104. deTocqueville, the stupid hippie:
    “of course I don’t have proof in the traditional empirical sense”
    —liberals never do.

    “but this statement is one that any black man would agree with, let’s leave it that.”
    —anecdotal, paranoid evidence, reinforced by race hustlers and SWPL-entertainment, does not proof make.

    “If you read my original post, you would have noticed that I was equally empathetic of the white point of view and critical of blacks for being too sensitive,”
    —lol. “I gave both sides my empathy, I’m ok!” Wrong son. There are facts. Having empathy for a paranoid delusional’s position only makes you a paranoid delusional sympathizer.

    “I conceded arguments on both sides”
    —No, you tried to equate unproven race-baiting paranoia with fact. You’re a moron.

    “and in a later post, qualified a blanket statement I made.”
    —iot’s called back-tracking, and I called you on it, because you still tried to blather on with your stupid “white people and black people have equal grievances here, no one is right” pathetic nonsense.

    “You, on the other hand, have never demonstrated the ability to understand the other person’s argument. ”
    –to a SWPLer moron like this cat, “understanding” and argument means “don’t show me the facts that prove my argument is complete and utter nonsense.”

    Game. Set. Match. Son.

    Like


  105. p.s. ever notice that when a SWPLer/liberal loses an argument so soundly that not even their illogic can save them, they say “well let’s agree to disagree” or “let’s just leave it at that?”

    Exhibit A: deTocqueville

    Like


  106. Seeking Alpha,

    Some people, especially radically reductionist Randian materialists, prefer to indulge in the complexities of certain issues in order to obscure the larger wholes and themes that don’t fit their ideology. Gates is black and Crowley is white. Gates screamed racism of whites against blacks from the beginning. Gates is not alone, this dynamic has a long and rich history in America. Gates has made a career out of it. This incident is defined completely through the prism of race relations in America.

    Like


  107. on July 24, 2009 at 1:47 pm An Experienced Father

    Doug1,

    The first thing Obama has to do is stop digging…but he can’t because being “authentically black” is more important to him than being America’s President.

    This will have consequences.

    IMO race relations are a major loser here as President Obama — between this acton and that of AG Holder with covering up Black Panther intimidation of white voters — just said that all the power of government will come down on white men when blacks are in power.

    Worse, his supporters just made sure white women aren’t safe either.

    See:

    http://althouse.blogspot.com/2009/07/that-racist-cop-is-real-person-sgt.html

    “And now we know the name of the woman who called the police. I suppose her life will be ruined now, as she’ll be portrayed as a racist. Lesson learned: If you think you’re witnessing a crime, mind your own business. Somewhere, the new Kitty Genovese walks into the alleyway.”

    We can longer dream of entering a “Post-racial America.”

    We are in fact entering a “Post-Martin Luther King America.”

    Like


  108. Cato–

    If the thought of a cop arresting a man on his porch for having a crappy attitude doesn’t bother you, this whole “government by the people, for the people” thing might not be your bag.

    I alluded to these concerns and issues in my first comment on this thread and most since.

    Your “on his porch” thing is misleading. The cop had a legitimate reason for being there and question Gates. A neighbor had suspected burglary. So the cop SHOULD have been questioning him. Your asking for the cop to take what seems to have been a great deal of heated, yelled, and sustained verbal abuse, while he was trying to question him.

    I find it interesting that if liberals and the media wish the law to written and/or interpreted in that way, they’re really on interested in pursing the issue if it involves a victim class. Ideally a respected black man.

    If you are truly concerned about the law overstepping personal liberty boundaries look into what an even temporarily angry woman can do without any proof whatsoever except her say so to a man she’s living with under current federal domestic violence laws. Ex parte order of protection and thrown out of his house for 90 days or more and not allowed even telephone contact, and forced to pay a substantial fine by way of legal fees due to several required court appearances in which they’ll try to get him to take feminist reeducation classes in return for an finally expunged case, with zero evidence in a case that will eventually finally have to be dropped. Or maybe it won’t be, with more legal fees=feminist fines.

    Like


  109. Cato

    On Libertarian grounds, you may be right. Once all the evidence comes in, we’ll know for sure.

    But AJ is also right that Gates could have prevented this by acting like a decent person and not a crazy maniac. But Gates profits from racial grievances so it suits him to be arrested for being “at home while black.”

    Everyone not wanting to get arrested should deal carefully with officers of the law.

    Like


  110. @lurker

    From the accounts I read, Gates was not threatening the officer’s person, but rather threatening to contact his superior. This may have been obnoxious, but it seems a stretch to suggest that it was criminal.

    I’m not a lawyer or a police officer, but it strikes me that “disorderly conduct” is one of those catchall charges that can be used to apply to virtually any obnoxious behavior. In the hands of an overzealous officer such a statute can easily been used in a manner that is unconstitutional.

    In this case, people on the left seem to be missing the point by making this a racial issue, and people on the right seem to be missing the point by blindly defending “law and order” and ignoring the larger matters of personal freedom and abusive governmental power.

    Like


  111. on July 24, 2009 at 1:50 pm megatron Jones

    @An experienced father

    the person in your quote refers to himself as a redneck. Are you sure this is an african american friend of yours?

    I do agree with the point that black people could be less combative and exhibit less indignation when confronted by police. It’s not going to make the situation any better.

    Like


  112. Cato, Gates was also, allegedly, yelling things about his mother (insert “dozen’s” joke here) screaming obscenities and calling him names like racist. If a man came up to you yelling obscenities, calling you names, and making cracks about your family, it would be “threatening” behavior. A person doesn’t have to threaten you directly to be acting threateningly.

    Like


  113. on July 24, 2009 at 1:53 pm Seeking Alpha

    Andrew E

    This is why your six word, dismissive post was bad. You didn’t make yourself clear.

    Of course it’s about race, because Gates made it about race. My point was that the officer treated him differently (more gently) because of his class, not his race.

    radically reductionist Randian materialists isn’t me.

    My description of your behavior – substituting snark for reason – is still accurate, and is what led to the miscommunication.

    I mean, it’s blog comments, so who cares. You don’t have to make sense or have a good reason for what you say. But I try to keep my own standards above the medium.

    Like


  114. on July 24, 2009 at 2:00 pm deTocqueville

    @lurker — Listen, son. It’s common knowledge for minorities that many of them have experienced being profiled, son. I’m not about to look up a study but here’s an article that at least confirms this perception, son.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/24/us/24blacks.html?hp

    I’m not agreeing to disagree, son. I disagree with you 100%, son. I’m not a crying, Glenn Beck blowhard like you nor am I a sniveling PC, SWPLer, son. I hate uncompromising idiots on both sides, son.

    Game. Set. Match. Championship. Son.

    Like


  115. on July 24, 2009 at 2:03 pm megatron Jones

    @An experienced father

    you’re right. Obama’s remarks will cause more harm to race relations in this country. All he’s done is justify proper racist’s fears of a black take over that have been brewing since he began his campaign and further alienate moderate whites.

    Like


  116. DeT, profiling is just an excuse for people being arrested in high crime areas. This website takes down your NYT article, albeit indirectly and quite indelicately.

    http://stuffblackpeopledontlike.blogspot.com/2009/07/28-driving-while-black.html

    Like


  117. I love this post. I am fascinated by all the different reactions to this story.

    Pretty much every white person in the Ivy League, Hollywood, or otherwise SWPL will take Gates’ side. On the other hand, Black people who are sick of this whole greivance industry because it makes them all look like whiners and the ‘cry wolf’ element hurts people who really are victims of racist police will take the officer’s side.

    This has not been my experience in discussions so far.

    Also, if the suspect is black and there is black man at the scene of the crime, “racial profiling” = “good detective work”. Ditto for a blond man, a bearded man, a tall woman, etc.

    Like


  118. Seeking Alpha,

    Look, you and I have been through this before and I have no desire to do it again. But as someone who thinks race is unimportant when it comes to American immigration policy, you don’t seem able to draw out the larger lessons we need to take from this incident, hence my label of reducionist. The fact is that most blacks feel the way Gates does and certainly the political expression of the black community agrees. What do you propose we do about it given that Gates is so obviously wrong about this incident and America?

    Like


  119. deTocqueville, the stupid hippie:
    “It’s common knowledge for minorities that many of them have experienced being profiled”
    –no, you simpleton, its the paranoid belief by minorities, backed up by jackass SWPLers like you and race hustlers like Al Sharpton, that make them THINK they have been racially profiled.

    “I’m not about to look up a study”
    –because there are none. there are no studies that show Driving while Black occurs anywhere but in black people’s minds.

    “but here’s an article that at least confirms this perception”
    —yes, the article is a classic piece of NYT-SWPL fluff: no facts or numbers, all anecdotal evidence, all based on their own biased ideas that they MUST be being racially profiled.

    “I’m not agreeing to disagree.I disagree with you 100%.”
    —lol. Now the little bitch disagrees with facts. Classic.

    “nor am I a sniveling PC, SWPLer”
    —lol. You try to claim that “both sides have valid argument” when one side bases theirs on facts and one on their own “feeling” of the issue. you are a classic SWPLer, son.

    “I hate uncompromising idiots on both sides”
    –translation: I hate when people use facts to rip my idiocy apart!

    QED, son.

    Like


  120. It’s not profiling. The guy was responding to a reported burglary.

    If anyone profiled, it’s the idiot president who stuck his ignorant big ears into the fray by sticking to the trite analysis that the police are obviously racist and stupid.

    Like


  121. on July 24, 2009 at 2:16 pm deTocqueville

    anonnaC — there’s validity to your point. I wouldn’t say that the website “takes down” the NYT article but it adds the counterargument that oftentimes, blacks are more likely to commit crimes and therefore likelier subjects for profiling. And I am IN SUPPORT of smart, racial profiling.

    Like


  122. racial profiling is a misnomer. It should be “look at how a guy dresses and acts. He if acts and dresses like a rapper ina video, he’s probably an anti-social ass and needs to be watched closely.”

    But hey,. why use logic when liberals can once again bring up race?

    Like


  123. on July 24, 2009 at 2:18 pm Seeking Alpha

    Andrew

    who thinks race is unimportant when it comes to American immigration policy

    I don’t think it’s unimportant. I’m certainly not blind to the effects of race. I think there is a balance of cultural and economic issues at stake with immigration and that it’s not clear which immigration policy would do best to balance them. It’s an issue that needs less hyperbole and further study and consideration.

    The fact is that most blacks feel the way Gates does and certainly the political expression of the black community agrees. What do you propose we do about it given that Gates is so obviously wrong about this incident and America?

    Ignore them. I could be wrong, but it doesn’t seem like Gates is ‘winning’ this fight. In fact, I’d bet if you put it to a poll, he’s losing.

    Like


  124. The problem is, Seeking, that the race hustlers often win these incredibly illogical fights. They actually succeeded in making the Jena 6 monsters into “martyrs” when they gang attacked a white kid until he was unconscious.

    Like


  125. ITA lurker. They are winning.

    Like


  126. on July 24, 2009 at 2:27 pm Seeking Alpha

    The problem is, Seeking, that the race hustlers often win these incredibly illogical fights. They actually succeeded in making the Jena 6 monsters into “martyrs” when they gang attacked a white kid until he was unconscious.

    No doubt lurker, that’s true. So what are our options:

    Fight like the Soviets. Trade territory for time. Give into them here or there and eventually they’ll stop complaining.

    Grade: Fail. This is a ‘give an inch, take a mile’ situation.

    Stand your ground and fight to the last. Engage on all fronts. Meet their passion with twice your own.

    Grade: Valiant fail. Your true believers will agree with you but as often as not, with the media as liberal as it is, you’ll be written off without being listened to.

    Engage only as necessary. Meet passion with calm. Mostly just ignore them

    Grade: Pass. These people are usually not very bright. That’s why they make up their own subjects instead of studying real ones. The more you let them talk, the more obvious their logical fallacies will become, and the nonsense of their opinions will be revealed. I think.

    Anyway, that’s my answer.

    Like


  127. mandy, ITA? Not sure what it means.

    Like


  128. ITA = I totally agree

    Like


  129. Thank you. And thank you.

    Like


  130. This is how liberals are moving to frame and treat this issue, though most will mix in more of an undercurrent of racism “playing a role” as well:

    Assume for a moment that Cambridge Police Officer James Crowley is telling the absolute truth in his incident report and subsequent press appearances and that Henry Louis Gates is lying about the events that led to the Harvard professor’s arrest. Assume for a moment that when Crowley showed up at Gates’ home, Gates was belligerent, angry, immediately started in on race and racism and made a “your mama” comment. Assume that he spouted inanities to the effect that Crowley didn’t know who he was “messing” with. Assume that when Crowley, satisfied that Gates did in fact live in the home and so was in fact not burglarizing it, started to leave Gates kept yelling at him.

    Even if all of that is true … Crowley was still wrong arresting Gates. “The professor at any time could have resolved the issue by quieting down and/or going back inside the house,” Crowley said in a radio interview. Maybe so. But Crowley could also have resolved by rolling his eyes at the cranky–but not criminal–professor, getting back in his car and driving away.

    There are undoubtedly times when a police officer needs to restrain someone who is genuinely being disorderly in a way that could pose a threat to himself, the officer or the community. But no one can plausibly argue that this was such an instance. And neither disliking someone’s attitude nor their tone of voice is good reason to cuff them and take them downtown.

    http://www.usnews.com/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2009/07/24/even-if-henry-louis-gates-arresting-officer-is-right-he-was-wrong.html

    Note how this is setting up a frame where Crowley will really take a hit if further facts show anything less than extreme provocation on Gates part.

    Fundamentally though this is thoroughly disingenuous. The media would NEVER get upset at a while male professor acting similarly unless conceivably the insults he was hurling were leftist political in nature – but even so vastly less.

    What Crowley wasn’t having was treating Gates with special privilege because he was an upper middle class black who was threatening to raise a racial stink.

    That make Crowley a stand up guy.

    Those liberals who are getting upset now about over broad disorderly conduct laws or their application are being thoroughly disingenuous.

    Look to domestic violence laws way before that.

    Like


  131. ””””””on July 24, 2009 at 11:22 am PA
    So far, the police officer is Alpha of the Month candidate.

    Refuses to apologize. And pretty much told 0bama to go fuck himself.””””””

    Boooyaaaaa bitches!!!!!!

    Exactly you don’t have to lick nuts all the time.

    You can be a man.

    This was some good shit.

    Once people aren’t afraid of pc because they know the truth. Yea good shit.

    Like


  132. Quite the thread here. Anyone who hasn’t clued in yet that Gates is a self-important blowhard with racism on the brain – hello? I’ve seen examples of real police malfeasance close-up, but this sure ain’t it. The arresting officer’s story seems to have fully checked out and, as someone pointed out already, witnesses on Gates’s side – wait, there aren’t any. Civilians generally don’t understand that acting like a belligerent ass, yelling and mentioning “yo mama” to a cop (of any race) is a really dumb thing to do and may well result in your fully justified arrest.

    As for Obama, what on earth was he thinking? Apparently his inner “community organizer” cannot be repressed forever.

    I suspect a lot of Americans are getting, at last, an accurate glimpse into what Obama’s “post-racial America” looks like and feeling slightly queasy.

    Like


  133. I wish Roissy would invite his readers to share how they score on Jonathan Haidt’s Moral Foundations Questionnaire:

    http://faculty.virginia.edu/haidtlab/mft/index.php

    I’m guessing that there would be generally high scores along the purity/sanctity (perhaps especially so) and authority/respect dimensions, if not a general correspondence with the “conservative” permutation.

    Like


  134. ”””””’Askjoe,
    He is an afro-centrist scholar…which means he basically gets paid to yell about the police. And promote socialism.
    Anyway, it’s disingenuous for the media to sanctify this huckster’s tenure.””””””

    We have another winner.

    Like


  135. Seeking Alpha writes:

    “It’s an issue that needs less hyperbole and further study and consideration. ”

    Please, give me a break. Read some Brimelow, Auster, Buchanan, Borjas. Read some of the Congressional debates from the 20’s over the immigration quotas that were put into effect. Study the history of any nation-state. Study the history of any civilization. Read some Enoch Powell. Read John Jay in Federalist #2:

    “With equal pleasure I have as often taken notice that Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country to one united people — a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs, and who, by their joint counsels, arms, and efforts, fighting side by side throughout a long and bloody war, have nobly established general liberty and independence.”

    The question has been asked and answered a thousand times over.

    Like


  136. ””””””The truth
    Uh oh. Racial Holy Thread comin up….””””””’

    As well this should be. Since Obama president type is making it so.

    Like


  137. on July 24, 2009 at 2:50 pm GNPs are for Apes

    I see that Obese-dian is conveniently absent these days.

    Anyway, Rasmussen has Barack Obama’s approval rating at just 49&. 51 % disapprove, and of these, 38% STRONGLY disapprove.

    But the devil is in the details.

    97% of blacks still approve of Obama. Amazing, considering he is just half-black.

    But just 41% of whites, and 58% of ‘others’ (Hispanics + Asians) approve of this charlatan.

    Thus, excluse the black unthinking vote, and just 44% approve of Obama.

    Then again, without the black vote, Obama would not have won anyway.

    Like


  138. on July 24, 2009 at 2:53 pm Seeking Alpha

    Andrew – By the logic of that paragraph, immigration should have stopped before Irish, Germans, Italians as well, right?

    I can at least agree with the logical consistency of that argument. A nation of former Englishmen.

    But then we would have never rose to superpower status. Which might not have been such a bad thing.

    Like


  139. ””””””on July 24, 2009 at 12:29 pm deTocqueville
    This post is idiotic and I am now dumber for having read it.

    I bet if you support Sgt. Crowley’s position, it’s 99% likely you’re white. I bet if you’re a black male, it’s 99% likely that you support Gates’s position.”””””””””

    Naa tocqueville. I believe very few black men would actually support crowleys position. They are not retards. Just no one is gonna talk to normal black people.

    Like


  140. ””””””Black men have been profiled and disrespected their entire lives so I understand why Gates would have been excessively angry for having white policemen question his residence at that home.””””””

    Wrong when I was pulled over with blacks after a party with 30 people all smoking weed I was treated better than when it was all white. Plus got the black guy got away with being high as fuck and driving. They didn’t find any drugs we were let go.

    Minor problem with some store clerk with my white friend and I was thrown into back of cop car and the door was slammed hard enough almost took my arm off. They want to make an impression on whites to not fuck up.

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  141. But yea president probably is playing divide and conquer. Why I posted true intent already on my blog.

    Like


  142. Even if Gates was being an asshat, that still doesn’t give the officer the right to arrest him. Can you really get charged for disorderly conduct for yelling loudly at someone? The dude’s 58 and coming home from a tiring trip, he wasn’t physically dangerous. Sounds like the officer got a case of “I’m a police officer, you can’t talk to me” bullyishness. If the incident had happened to a white man it still would have been an unjustified abuse of police power.

    Like


  143. And Roissy is like that one weird kid in second grade who ate crayons.

    Like


  144. Gates shouted “you don;t know who you are messing with!”

    certainly the soulful wail of an “oppressed and frightened minority”

    mencius moldbug on blacks as america’s new ‘nobility’:

    Let’s say you were a person who didn’t care at all about the Constitution, and you wanted to take America back to the past and establish a new order of hereditary nobility. What could be more deliciously reactionary than that? Real, live nobles, walking around on the street. So let’s see what it would take to make it happen.
    First, we need to define noble status. Our rule is simple: if either of your parents was a noble, you’re a noble. While this is unusually inclusive for a hereditary order, it is the 21st century, after all. We can step out a little. And nobility remains a biological quality–a noble baby adopted by common parents is noble, a common baby adopted by noble parents is common.

    Fine. What are the official duties and privileges of our new nobility? Obviously, we can’t really call it a noble order unless it has duties and privileges.

    Well, privileges, anyway. Who needs duties? What’s the point of being a noble, if you’re going to have all these duties? Screw it, it’s the 21st century. We’ve transcended duties. On to the privileges.

    The basic quality of a noble is that he or she is presumed to be better than commoners. Of course, both nobles and commoners are people. And people do vary. Individual circumstances must always be considered. However, the official presumption is that, in any conflict between a noble and a commoner, the noble is right and the commoner is wrong. Therefore, by default, the noble should win. This infallible logic is the root of our system of noble privilege.

    For example, if a noble attacks a commoner, we can presume that the latter has in some way provoked or offended the former. The noble may of course be guilty of an offense, but the law must be extremely careful about establishing this. If there is a pattern of noble attacks on commoners, there is almost certainly a problem with the commoners, whose behavior should be examined and who may need supplemental education.

    If a commoner attacks a noble, however, it is an extremely serious matter. And a pattern of commoner attacks on nobles is unthinkable–it is tantamount to the total breakdown of civilization. In fact, one way to measure the progress that modern society has made is that, in the lifetime of those now living, it was not at all unusual for mobs of commoners to attack and kill nobles! Needless to say, this doesn’t happen anymore.

    This intentional disparity in the treatment of unofficial violence creates the familiar effect of asymmetric territorial dominance. A noble can stroll anywhere he wants, at any time of day or night, anywhere in the country. Commoners are advised not to let the sun set on them in noble neighborhoods, and if they go there during the day they should have a good reason for doing so.

    One of the main safeguards for our system of noble authority is a systematic effort to prevent the emergence of commoner organizations which might exercise military or political power. Commoners may of course have friends who are other commoners, but they may not network on this basis. Nobles may and of course do form exclusive social networks on the basis of nobility.

    Most interactions between commoners and nobles, of course, do not involve violence or politics. Still, by living in the same society, commoners and nobles will inevitably come into conflict. Our goal is to settle these conflicts, by default, in favor of the noble.

    For example, if a business must choose whether to hire one of two equally qualified applicants, and one is a noble while the other is a commoner, it should of course choose the noble. The same is true for educational admissions and any other contest of merit. Our presumption is that while nobles are intrinsically, inherently and immeasurably superior to commoners, any mundane process for evaluating individuals will fail to detect these ethereal qualities–for which the outcome must therefore be adjusted.

    Speaking of the workplace, it is especially important not to let professional circles of commoner resistance develop. Therefore, we impose heavy fines on corporations whose internal or external policies or practices do not reflect a solid pro-noble position. For example, a corporation which permits its commoner employees to express insolence or disrespect toward its noble employees, regardless of their relationship in the corporate hierarchy, is clearly liable. Any such commoner must be fired at once if the matter is brought to the management’s attention.

    This is an especially valuable tool for promoting the nobility: it literally achieves that result. In practice it makes the noble in any meeting at the very least primus inter pares. Because it is imprudent for commoners to quarrel with him, he tends to get what he wants. Because he tends to get what he wants, he tends to advance in the corporate hierarchy. The result, which should be visible in any large business without dangerous commonerist tendencies, will be a predominance of nobles in top executive positions.

    Like


  145. This gets me pussy, how?

    Like


  146. Chuck: Ever heard of “disorderly conduct”? Look it up. And, hint: don’t yell at and insult cops when they are doing their jobs.

    I’m an attorney, as well as a former federal agent, and believe me, under different circumstances (ie Gates’s buddy isn’t the President), he’d be convicted, evidence against him was clear, and attested to by several police officers.

    Like


  147. @doug1

    Although the quoted text may be the work of a liberal author, it is not, by any means, a liberal argument. Opposing government infringement on personal liberty is a fundamental conservative value.

    If race were removed from the Gates scenario (white officer, white subject) this story would never have broken along traditional Dem-GOP political lines.

    The author in your snippet argues, correctly, that this is an issue of civil liberties, not civil rights.

    Like


  148. Even if Gates was being an asshat, that still doesn’t give the officer the right to arrest him. Can you really get charged for disorderly conduct for yelling loudly at someone?

    Wrong, and yes you can.

    Arrested in Massachusetts for Disorderly Conduct or Disturbing the Peace?

    A disorderly person is defined as one who:

    * with purpose to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or
    * recklessly creates a risk thereof
    * engages in fighting or threatening, violent or tumultuous behavior, or
    * creates a hazard or physically offensive condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose.

    Like


  149. Suppose the cop(s) had just walked away and Gates was crazy, or drunk, or high, and then Gates proceeded to hurt himself or someone else? I would NOT want to be the cop who had walked away at that point. Hell to pay on that one. The public needs to understand that cops are frequently thrust into no-win situations, just like this one. Act accordingly.

    Like


  150. Esquire,

    people who haven’t gone to law school usually have great difficulty determining what the actual offense committed in news stories is and eagerly buy the media’s version. cf. bill clinton being impeached for a “blow job” and not for “perjury”.

    Like


  151. If you ever want to see a Black man holler racism, let him be turned down for a dance by a White woman.

    Like


  152. ‘The first thing Obama has to do is stop digging…but he can’t because being “authentically black” is more important to him than being America’s President.’

    Exactly. Several people have said this isn’t about race, that it’s about class or whatever. And maybe it shouldn’t be about race; it doesn’t sound like the policeman made it about race (except perhaps to be extra careful with Gates). But for men like Gates and Obama, it’s ALWAYS about race. Everything is.

    I’m not a big fan of cops; I think many of them are control freaks who think an “innocent” person is someone who just hasn’t been caught yet and is lying. But the fact is, they’re armed and have backup and may shoot you if you give them enough trouble. If I get pulled over, I’m polite and surrender my ID and nothing else. I don’t start yelling at the cop and follow him back to his car, because if I did you can be sure I’d end up arrested, regardless of my color.

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  153. Dana: Yep, yep, yep … and the uninformed public tends to learn about “disorderly conduct” at 2.15am when they act like idiots coming out of bars, talk back to cops, and wind up having a very bad night. 🙂

    Like


  154. on July 24, 2009 at 3:24 pm An Experienced Father

    >megatron Jones
    >
    >the person in your quote refers to himself as a redneck. >Are you sure this is an african american friend of yours?

    I take it you haven’t been to East Texas, have you?

    For some, “Red neck” is more cultural than racial thing there.

    My friend wears that tag “Red Neck” as a badge of honor…and it helps that he is light enough skinned to get a red neck.

    Watching the Dallas black professional victims community commuting up to Paris Texas to try and make a three drunken felons with outstanding warrants into the next “Racial dragging death/Jena 6 has been very informative in that regard.

    Short story:

    Two white and one black felon were out drunk as skunks in the back roads of Paris Texas.

    The black man told the two white to piss off, wandered away and passed out drunk in the middle of a back road.

    The Black drunk was subsequently run over by a gravel truck.

    The two white felons found the body later and beat feet to avoid the attention of the local law.

    All this showed up in later investigations to include the gravel truck and the driver that reported in his log book about running something over about the time this guy passed out, to include the results of his inspection after the impact.

    The local black preachers have been telling the Dallas Black professional victims to go home and quit stirring up trouble over an idiot drunk.

    Like


  155. I’m an attorney. I was a federal agent. I have been pulled over by cops and even questioned once in a very Gates-like fashion. I handled it like an adult and, amazingly, I didn’t get my ass kicked by the po-po.

    If you act like an idiot, there will be consequences (unless you’re a famous professor of African-American whatever at Harvard).

    Like


  156. Thanks, Rob. Obama is a world-class douche – what a mealy-mouthed pseudo-apology. He is such a fucking lawyer.

    Like


  157. @Tarl

    Okay, guess it’s a crime. The fact that it is, though, is some bs. Being “annoying” is not something we should arrest people for, especially since such a subjective condition could easily get abused. All the talk about how cops are “thrust into dangerous situations” should give them the right to arrest people who are acting in erratic manners only if they’re actually in a dangerous situation. If you want to say that a cop should have the right to arrest a yelling individual because he usually encounters dangerous situations, then that same logic would give him a clear pass to arrest a toddler having a temper tantrum. Adults should be capable of dealing with assholes without being assholes themselves. Throwing someone in jail for even a night for insulting you is disproportionate. Just walk away if it bothers you so much.

    I guess that’s the way it is, but it still pisses me off.

    Like


  158. It’s still not an apology, its more “I chose the wrong words but I still meant” Which is to say he still thinks Crowley is stupid, he just wants to say it differently. Didn’t even say I’m sorry, at least its not reported that way.

    And yet he claimed he didn’t know enough about the incident. Seriously, he’s trying to fool the non-race-baiters by saying he’s not a biased dumbass while “coding” his words such that race-baiters hear the truth: “This honky was stupid for DARING to mess with a black man who is my friend. He’s stupid, black men can do whatever they want.”

    Fucking asshole.

    Like


  159. Chuck: I don’t like paying my taxes, and nobody else I know does either … but it’s the law. What’s your point?

    Police are not just upholders of the law, they are also a symbol of it, and of public order. You attack a cop, you are in a sense attacking the justice system (which is why a cop killing is a more serious crime than ‘regular’ homicide, and also why it’s a really bad idea to assault, say, a judge).

    There is no constitutional right to yell at an insult a peace officer, in uniform, doing his/her duty – anywhere in this country.

    Cops can be jerks, they’re human, but the law exists for a perfectly valid reason. And, again, the Gates situation was handled perfectly well by the cops involved; even the black cop on scene is now publicly backing the arresting officer.

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  160. On the strength of the police report, I wish Obama had been more circumspect during the press conference so he wouldn’t have to do the lawyer bit; and I think the officer’s decision was reasonable, and that Gates was foolishly abusive in his language; but I still have doubts whether a white man would have been arrested under similar circumstances after the Harvard ID had been produced.

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  161. I am acquainted with the Cambridge PD, and I am very confident that anybody who acted as Gates did would have been hauled in, color blind.

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  162. Chuck, you could get the law change, but its a minor catch-all.

    It’s not overtly vague, and it allows the police the ability to move people who “aren’t committing any crime” but are clearly trouble: people screaming, yelling, being anti-social in a threatening manner, etc.

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  163. >>If you act like an idiot, there will be consequences (unless you’re a famous professor of African-American whatever at Harvard).

    And the cop acted like an idiot too. It’s true that Gates should’ve been more respectful because he was dealing with someone who had the power to arrest him, and it was idiotic of him not too. But if the cop was thinking of the consequences too, he would’ve realized that it’s a stupid idea to arrest a Harvard professor who was claiming racial bias. It’s rather likely that such an action would blow up in the media.

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  164. Sorry Seeking Alpha, you don’t get to deconstruct America that easily. Theologian Will Herberg:

    “The enthusiasts of the ‘melting pot’ . . . were wrong . . . in
    regard to the cultural aspect of the assimilative process. They
    looked forward to a genuine blending of cultures, to which
    every ethnic strain would make its own contribution and out of
    which would emerge a new cultural synthesis, no more English
    than German or Italian and yet in some sense transcending
    and embracing them all. In certain respects, this has indeed
    become the case: our American cuisine includes antipasto and
    spaghetti, frankfurters and pumpernickel, filet mignon and
    french fried potatoes, borsch, sour cream, and gefullte fish, on
    a perfect equality with fried chicken, ham and eggs, and pork
    and beans. But it would be a mistake to infer from this that
    the American’s image of himself—and that means the ethnic
    group member’s image of himself as he becomes American—
    is a composite or synthesis of the ethnic elements that have
    gone into the making of the American. It is nothing of the kind:
    The American’s image of himself is still the Anglo American
    ideal it was at the beginning of our independent existence. The
    “national type” as ideal has always been, and remains, pretty
    well fixed. It is the Mayflower, John Smith, Davy Crockett,
    George Washington, and Abraham Lincoln that define the
    American’s selfimage, and this is true whether the American
    in question is a descendant of the Pilgrims or the grandson of
    an immigrant from southeastern Europe. ”

    http://jtl.org/auster/PNS.pdf

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  165. “but I still have doubts whether a white man would have been arrested under similar circumstances after the Harvard ID had been produced.”
    —Do you know anything about Crowley? Rob, Crowley’s so pc, he probably would have wrapped a white man up long *before* he arrested Gates *in full view of a black police officer, who saw nothing wrong with it.*

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  166. Wise or not politically, Sgt Crowley did the right thing, really the only thing he could do when he had a raving lunatic, itching for a fight, on his hands. The beauty of our system, and the best indication of Crowley’s integrity, is that he brought Gates in KNOWING there had to be a shitstorm awaiting him, since he was putting the cuffs on a black Harvard professor, who was threatening him with consequences for doing his job.

    Justice is supposed to be blind, remember?

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  167. “And the cop acted like an idiot too. ”

    –cop did the right think Chuck. He put an ass in jail for being an ass. Even NotMyPresident is coming around to the fact that not even he can fool people into believing this is racial.

    If Gates tries to make himself into a martyr—-currently recooperating on Martha’s Vineyard, lol!—-he will be laughed otu of everywhere except the CBC.

    Like


  168. >>Police are not just upholders of the law, they are also a symbol of it, and of public order.

    Free speech is part of the law too.

    >>You attack a cop, you are in a sense attacking the justice system (which is why a cop killing is a more serious crime than ‘regular’ homicide, and also why it’s a really bad idea to assault, say, a judge).

    Cops are also held up as honorable and deserving of respect. I’d always thought that part of being honorable was being the “bigger man” and walking away from a situation like this. There are thousands of people who claim cops are racially biased, and there are even more who just hate cops in general. Arresting one won’t affect that at all.

    Like


  169. >>The beauty of our system, and the best indication of Crowley’s integrity, is that he brought Gates in KNOWING there had to be a shitstorm awaiting him

    Yeah, you’re right, that is rather honorable.

    Like


  170. Chuck: Presumably you have been to enough school to realize that free speech is not an absolute. Yelling “yo mama” at a cop does NOT constitute free or protected speech. Anywhere.

    Respect the badge and the uniform, not necessarily the person.

    Like


  171. on July 24, 2009 at 4:12 pm Seeking Alpha

    Andrew E

    America became the super power she is only because of her immigrants. You can’t be a superpower without a superpowers population.

    I’m not sure what your point was in posting that clip. It seems to argue that despite immigration, our culture is still Anglo-Saxon. If that’s the case, that would argue in favor of immigration, right? That we get all the benefits without the cultural distillation.

    Like


  172. >>cop did the right think Chuck. He put an ass in jail for being an ass.

    Kicking someone out of a restaurant, a club, a sporting event, etc. for being an ass is the right thing to do. Socially ostracizing an ass is the right thing to do. Putting someone in jail for being an ass is disproportionate.

    Like


  173. ”””””””””’Dana,
    Speaking of the workplace, it is especially important not to let professional circles of commoner resistance develop. Therefore, we impose heavy fines on corporations whose internal or external policies or practices do not reflect a solid pro-noble position. For example, a corporation which permits its commoner employees to express insolence or disrespect toward its noble employees, regardless of their relationship in the corporate hierarchy, is clearly liable. Any such commoner must be fired at once if the matter is brought to the management’s attention.

    This is an especially valuable tool for promoting the nobility: it literally achieves that result. In practice it makes the noble in any meeting at the very least primus inter pares. Because it is imprudent for commoners to quarrel with him, he tends to get what he wants. Because he tends to get what he wants, he tends to advance in the corporate hierarchy. The result, which should be visible in any large business without dangerous commonerist tendencies, will be a predominance of nobles in top executive positions.”””””””’

    Ahh yes but when companies develope zero tolerance laws. God help when the commoners do the same.

    Company: Your Fired.
    Commoner: Well I have zero tolerance for that shit just like you have zero tolerance for my actions.

    Like


  174. Chuc, can’t agree: “Putting someone in jail for being an ass is disproportionate.”
    —-There are lines. Like I said, if someone were on a street corner, yelling swears across the screet at people, telling them about their mama and all that, and yelling that they were racists, you take them in. No one would feel safe walking around with that guy on the corner.

    Like


  175. roissy,

    Gates reminds me of the guy at the bar or the kid on the playground when we were kids who talks large amounts of shit, trying to instigate something, and then when it goes down he starts to back-pedal and whimper like a scared puppy.

    Gates stepped up big telling Crowly that he’d “talk to yo momma outside” and throwing racist jabs at him, but when the shit went down and Gates was cuffed, he started whining about lack of cane and that the cuffs were too tight.

    Would Malcolm have complained that his cuffs were too tight?

    Like


  176. >>Presumably you have been to enough school to realize that free speech is not an absolute. Yelling “yo mama” at a cop does NOT constitute free or protected speech. Anywhere.

    The trend this century has been towards defining any sort of expression as free speech. The only cases I know of that that some sort of communication gets censored or punished is in the case of causing a dangerous situation (the classic yelling-fire!-in-a-movie-theater case), lying to the public (ads making false claims, etc.) or slander (which I believe, has to come in some sort of publication like a newspaper, tv show, etc.).

    Like


  177. a raving lunatic, itching for a fight

    Itching for a fight? I don’t extract anything of the kind from the report. Verbally raving, yes.

    I

    Like


  178. >> No one would feel safe walking around with that guy on the corner.

    Yeah, but if he’s in his own front yard? No one’s making you come to Gates’ house.

    Like


  179. @Esquire

    I’m not a lawyer, but I have studied constitutional law and saying “yo mama” to a police officer is almost certainly protected speech.

    From the First Amendment Center:

    Consider the following situations in which offensive statements were found not to constitute fighting words:

    * Calling a police officer a “son of a bitch” (Johnson v. Campbell, 3rd Circuit, 2003).
    * Yelling “fuck you all” to a police officer and security personnel at a nightclub (Cornelius v. Brubaker, Minnesota District Court, 2003).
    * Telling a police officer: “I’m tired of this God damned police sticking their nose in shit that doesn’t even involve them” (Brendle v. City of Houston, Court of Appeals of the State of Mississippi, 2000).
    * Telling a security officer “This is bullshit” when rousted from a parking lot (U.S. v. McDermott, Eastern District of Pennsylvania, 1997).

    http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/speech/personal/topic.aspx?topic=fighting_words

    It’s somewhat irrelevant, since Gates was arrested for his “conduct,” rather than his speech, but it would certainly appear that everything he said was protected by the First Amendment.

    Free speech may not be absolute, but thankfully it can’t be limited as easily as you suggest.

    Like


  180. no one has “freedom of speech”–Freedom of speech refers to the the state or federal government’s ability to enact laws that restrict speech based on CONTENT alone. state and federal governments are unequivocally allowed to restrict speech when the restrictions are based on the time, place or manner in which the speech occurs.

    Like


  181. If you can find a lawyer able to convince anyone that yelling “yo mama” at the po-po is protected speech, get me his number ASAP, I want him as my co-counsel on everything.

    Defamatory speech is not protected; slander is spoken, libel is written.

    You also seem not to understand the difference between criminal and civil matters. False and misleading ads are not necessarily (indeed are hardly ever) illegal, but can be subject to civil remedy.

    Like


  182. “if someone were on a street corner, yelling swears across the screet at people, telling them about their mama and all that, and yelling that they were racists, you take them in. No one would feel safe walking around with that guy on the corner.”

    If you were not on the street corner, but on your own property – for example, on your porch – doing this, they are clearly guilty of disorderly conduct.

    If my neighbor stands on his porch and starts yelling and acting like a jerk, I guarantee you I’m calling the cops on him.

    Like


  183. Cato: You are absolutely right in a technical (ie 1st Amendment) sense, but protected speech can still be criminal in context, ie Gates, who, like you said, was arrested for disorderly conduct.

    I have an absolute constitutional right to make speeches from my deck. I do not necessarily have the right to do so at 3am, using big loudspeakers, for instance.

    I am trying to explain to the laity here 🙂

    Like


  184. Seeking Alpha,

    This is getting absurd. The issue here is not immigration per se, but WHO’S immigrating and in what numbers. You have no right to say or imply that because America once allowed millions of non-Anglo Europeans to immigrate then, there’s no argument for restricting immigration from Muslims, Africans or Mestizos. The differences between Europeans and non-Europeans are orders of magnitude larger than the differences between Anglos and non-Anglo Europeans. Why don’t you understand this?

    Recall (or perhaps more correctly, learn for the first time) that America cut off virtually all immigration from the Revolution to the 1850’s and from the 1920’s to the 1960’s. So it wasn’t immigration PER SE that led America to greatness. It was highly capable populations (read: white Europeans) taking on the English/Anglo character of the country and through the prism of Anglo government, religion, traditions and customs made America great.

    Like


  185. America became the super power she is only because of her immigrants. You can’t be a superpower without a superpowers population.

    Meh. This assumes that the Anglo-Scottish-Irish population wouldn’t breed and fill up the space if there weren’t any immigrants.

    Like


  186. ..Defamatory speech is not protected; slander is spoken, libel is written.

    You also seem not to understand the difference between criminal and civil matters. False and misleading ads are not necessarily (indeed are hardly ever) illegal, but can be subject to civil remedy.

    I said “gets censored or punished”. Civil remedy can definitely involve censorship (removing an ad from the air) or punishment (monetary compensation to individuals who bought the product based on false claims).

    I’m not a lawyer, I’m not good at knowing exactly what precise legal terms mean. Hence my error with the def. of slander. But you’re not looking at my argument – I was trying to lay out all the types of speech that I knew of that could result in the law punishing you, and the fact that none of these are even criminal just further adds to my point. Arrest is not a civil remedy.

    Like


  187. on July 24, 2009 at 4:34 pm Seeking Alpha

    Andrew E

    Of course it matters who. And we can discuss that, no problem.

    But I was showing you how your own quotes were refuting your argument. Your first quote refuted ANY immigration (incl. white Europeans) and your second quote refuted negative cultural implications to immigration.

    There’s no need to be rude. You’ve been – in this one small tactical engagement – ‘rhetorically defeated’ so to speak, and I’ve done it politely. So keep your manners in check.

    I’ve never said that there aren’t racial differences in who we let in, so please don’t erect strawmen against me.

    I’ve said we have no serious proof that our country has been hurt culturally or economically by non-white immigration.

    Like


  188. Do you know anything about Crowley? Rob, Crowley’s so pc, he probably would have wrapped a white man up long *before* he arrested Gates *in full view of a black police officer, who saw nothing wrong with it.* (lurker)

    Perhaps. But I’m not claiming anything about Crowley’s character or decency. Implicit bias works through the best of characters.

    Like


  189. @ seeking alpha

    I understand that as Jew living three generations after the Holocaust, it makes sense to support immigration as it would reduce the risk that the white Christian majority (like Roissy, PA, Doug and AJ travis) would unleash a pogrom against you

    but you work in the same industry as I do. You know like me that most of the people here resent us and would gladly see us screwed and our industry regulated out of existence

    you know how much NAMs love taxes and how easy it is to tax ” rich people”.

    dont´you think that the actual number of NAMs in the US is enough to assure you that a pogrom wil not happen?

    don´t you think that as the number of NAMs increase they will generate the political basis for some HUgo Chavez figure to over tax or over regulate finance? DO you believe that middle class guys like PA and Doug and Roissy would stand up in arms for us if some moron in DC decided to tax variable income (bonuses) at an 80% rate? I bet they would, but only much later once that tax rates were slowly extended to them.

    don´t you see the writing on the wall?

    Like


  190. >>I have an absolute constitutional right to make speeches from my deck. I do not necessarily have the right to do so at 3am, using big loudspeakers, for instance.

    The reason 3am speeches are illegal has nothing to do with their content. Unless the loudness of Gates’ voice can cause physical harm to people, I’d have to say that he was arrested on the content of his words, which is protected.

    Like


  191. on July 24, 2009 at 4:37 pm Seeking Alpha

    Meh. This assumes that the Anglo-Scottish-Irish population wouldn’t breed and fill up the space if there weren’t any immigrants.

    They would have, but not nearly fast enough. Subtract from our population the number of all immigrants to ever have come + their spawn from out current population.

    The continent would be woefully underpopulated.

    It’s the same reason Australia will not be a super power anytime soon. They have the resources. They have the space. They have control of a continent like us. They have a more homogeneous population. But they won’t be a super power in this century.

    Like


  192. @Dana

    That is absolutely wrong.

    If governments could “unequivocally” restrict speech based on the time, place or manner in which the speech occurs, then the government could mandate that speech take place only when spoken quietly, into a pillow, at midnight, on a leap year.

    As a refresher, the First Amendment says:

    “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.”

    Note the bit about peaceably assembling.

    While the courts have allowed governments to enact limited restrictions on free speech based on time, manner etc., the presumption of the speaker’s right remains paramount.

    Like


  193. Rob–

    but I still have doubts whether a white man would have been arrested under similar circumstances after the Harvard ID had been produced.

    You’ve been well propagandized.

    The white guy, IF HE HAD BEEN EQUALLY AND PERSISTENT INSULTING AND IN THE COPS FACE would probably have been even more likely to be arrested.

    The cop would know the chances of there being any wide or difficult to handle stink over the white guy’s arrest would be minimal; but that they were real in the case of arresting a Harvard faculty member black, who was threatening to play the race card big.

    The truth of the case is that Gates is USED TO SPECIAL PRIVILEGES and special treatment that white male Harvard faculty guys do not get. He’s used to being treated with kid gloves.

    Cornell West was particularly egregious in this. He felt he should be able to flout Harvard’s scholarly output and productivity standards with impunity. Summers in effect forced in out. Of course that did not exactly help summers with the PC leftist crowd in the Harvard faculty when he made his famous remarks about women as a group having a narrower shaped bell cure of math abilities — and also having sometimes different work/family trade off priorities.

    Like


  194. on July 24, 2009 at 4:43 pm Seeking Alpha

    @ gig

    makes sense to support immigration as it would reduce the risk that the white Christian majority (like Roissy, PA, Doug and AJ travis) would unleash a pogrom against you

    I don’t think any Jew consciously thinks this way, and I certainly don’t. I support immigration because I believe (and would happily change my mind if proved wrong) that the biggest drivers of national power are population and economic potential and that immigration is the only way to preserve our edge in both. And I don’t believe that continued immigration will change our Anglo-Saxon culture. I believe second generation Hispanic teens are more like white American teens than Hispanic Mexican teens.

    You know like me that most of the people here resent us and would gladly see us screwed and our industry regulated out of existence

    I don’t think that’s true. They might hate the worst on Wall Street, and they might some more regulation, but what happened to the tax on AIG bonuses. The people you think resent us defended the right of the AIG employees to have their contracts honored.

    And for the record, my industry manages the pensions of teachers, firefighters, and policeman to make sure their retirement benefits are protected.

    don´t you think that as the number of NAMs increase they will generate the political basis for some HUgo Chavez figure to over tax or over regulate finance?

    I believe these figures rise up because of poverty. Poor men with nothing to lose vote in socialists. And America is not and likely will never be a poor nation.

    Like


  195. >>Do you know anything about Crowley? Rob, Crowley’s so pc, he probably would have wrapped a white man up long *before* he arrested Gates *in full view of a black police officer, who saw nothing wrong with it.*

    This is off topic, because I’m pretty much agreeing that the Gates arrest has nothing to do with race. But it pisses me off when people claim that they’re not racist because they associate with black people, or if people claim that their opinions aren’t racist because they have a black friend who agrees. Having a black friend is not a get-out-of-racism-free card. That’s the absurd kind of logic that leads to companies preferentially hiring minorities and women who are underqualified either because they’re overreacting to claims of racial bias or because they want to reap the public-relations benefits of a “diverse” company. Are you going to claim that a homosexual man can’t be homophobic because he’s homosexual? Or what about that Dave Chappelle skit where the KKK recruits a blind black man? Are they not racist cause they have a black friend?

    Like


  196. Seeking Alpha,

    Why do you assume the first quote by John Jay means what you think it means. The Founding Fathers lived in an era of moderate immigration from non-Anglo populations. Your problem is you have no affinity for or understanding of Western Civilization. The Founders did, so they were able to say the kinds of things Jay is saying there without contradicting themselves.

    “I’ve said we have no serious proof that our country has been hurt culturally or economically by non-white immigration.”

    You’ve just discredited yourself completely with this statement.

    Like


  197. on July 24, 2009 at 4:45 pm Seeking Alpha

    Damn, I’m enjoying these discussions, but I’ll be out of here in 45 minutes. Hopefully they can be pushed a little farther before then.

    Like


  198. cato

    i stand corrected–unequivocally was too strong

    Like


  199. “Should he have taken this silently with head bowed like a good house-negro? “

    Strident anger about racist oppressors isn’t constructive racial dialog. It’s an attempt at dominance. It apparently failed miserably, and will probably mark a sort of turning point in people’s willingness to put up with that sort of behavior.

    If I had done what Gates did, I’d be in jail too. The histrionic nitwit should have THANKED the policeman for making sure some dirtbag wasn’t stealing his shit. Instead, he acted like an ungrateful jackass. Just because you’re a famous asshole doesn’t make you above the law; it doesn’t entitle you to self righteous tirades at a policeman trying to do his job. He actually did the nation and the cop an enormous favor by bringing this out in public. Had it remained a small town incident, he might have managed to use his juice to wreck the cop’s career. Now that he’s exposed this “injustice” -everyone sees him for the petty bully that he is.

    Like


  200. on July 24, 2009 at 4:49 pm Seeking Alpha

    Your problem is you have no affinity for or understanding of Western Civilization.

    Where on Earth do you get that from? I understand it so well that I believe free men in this country will overwhelmingly adopt it over their native civilization.

    Why do you assume the first quote by John Jay means what you think it means.

    You quoted this part: the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs

    18th century Italians, for instance, had different ancestors, different language, different religion, different principles of government, and different manners and customs from 18th century Englishmen. Which part of that do you dispute?

    You’ve just discredited yourself completely with this statement.

    Again, rather than just STATING it as obvious, show some intelligence and give an example. We’ve never been richer. The poor have never been richer. The middle class have never been richer. In terms of what their income and wealth can purchase in both essentials and luxuries.

    Like


  201. Seeking Alpha,

    “I understand it so well…..”

    Let’s find out. Define Western Civilization.

    “We’ve never been richer. The poor have never been richer. The middle class have never been richer. ”

    Questions: Is government growing smaller or larger? Who’s benefiting the most from government largesse? Is it easier or harder to support a family, buy a home, have 2 cars on a single blue-collar income today versus during the 1950’s?

    Like


  202. >>It was highly capable populations (read: white Europeans) taking on the English/Anglo character of the country and through the prism of Anglo government, religion, traditions and customs made America great.

    Mexicans immigrating allows those Anglos to stop doing menial jobs like washing the dishes in a restaurant and get to work propagating those supposedly great Anglo culture by getting better paying and more influential jobs. Unless driving through the barrio every once in a while is a serious threat to your culture, I’d have to say that white guys get the better end of the bargain by letting Mexicans immigrate.

    Like


  203. my industry manages the pensions of teachers, firefighters, and policeman to make sure their retirement benefits are protected

    mine too

    are you partner already?

    Like


  204. Chuck, rights aren’t absolute. You can’t yell “Fire” in a crowded theater (even a federally owned -and-operated one). The content of the speech is disasterous.

    Like


  205. on July 24, 2009 at 4:56 pm Seeking Alpha

    are you partner already?

    Didn’t realize you were buyside. We fly low. Anyway, I’m 23, out of college two years. Takes a bit more than that to make partner.

    Like


  206. I am 25, if everything goes well I can be there before at 28 or 29

    Like


  207. @ lurker

    Yeah, I already said that exact same thing. What’s your point?

    Like


  208. Anyway, what’s “disastrous” about yelling at a cop? In the fire example, people can die or be seriously injured. In this case, it sounds like a typical day at work for the cop.

    Like


  209. Seeking Alpha–

    They would have, but not nearly fast enough. Subtract from our population the number of all immigrants to ever have come + their spawn from out current population.

    The continent would be woefully underpopulated.

    I doubt your argument holds up. I’m sure it doesn’t with respect to immigration law and enforcement changes post the 1965 immigration reforms.

    Few people think America is woefully underpopulated. The needs of our economy are different.

    What is the economic and cultural basis for not supporting deportation of illegal immigrants now, with the current very high and still rapidly rising unemployment rates.

    As well illegal immigration clearly does suppress wage rates.

    It makes little short term, and much less long term sense to keep letting in classes of immigrants that our political and other elites will then turn around and argue “need” affirmative action, or their children do. It’s nuts to burden ourselves in that way.

    Instead we should be luring in sizeable but not mass numbers of the best and the brightest.

    Instead by not making our immigration standards more brain power selective and less (extended) family unifying (as Canada does), and especially by not deporting illegal immigrants or effectively policing illegals with employers and unemployment offices and so on, we’re rapidly on the way towards having a majority of this country be underperforming minorities (especially peasant origin Hispanics) the the PC insist must be given affirmative action.

    How is that in the best long term interests of this country – not to mention those of the current majority population? How is that really in Jewish best interests, rationally considered?

    Like


  210. anyway, once you become patner all those problems disappear.

    dividends are un-taxable -not even HUgo Chavez did that – and any modern economy cannot exist without a financial sector

    Like


  211. “The beauty of our system, and the best indication of Crowley’s integrity, is that he brought Gates in KNOWING there had to be a shitstorm awaiting him.”

    No kidding. You know what had to be going through his mind the whole time: “Please shut up and don’t make me arrest you. I know exactly how this will be played in the media, because I teach the freaking class. Please shut up and don’t make me arrest you.”

    Like


  212. on July 24, 2009 at 5:00 pm Seeking Alpha

    Let’s find out. Define Western Civilization.

    Broad cultural and ethical traditions, mainly centered around freedom and liberty, defined by Greco-Roman civilization and Judeo-Christian religions. What’s your definition?

    Questions: Is government growing smaller or larger? Who’s benefiting the most from government largesse? Is it easier or harder to support a family, buy a home, have 2 cars on a single blue-collar income today versus during the 1950’s?

    These have nothing to do with my question. You’re trying to pick these very specific aspects of our economic situation. We’re not a nation of factory workers anymore.

    Is the average standard of living for a white American higher or lower than 50 years ago? All our essentials are cheaper and all our basic luxuries are cheaper.

    Like


  213. Chuck, you also cannot say, for example, a statemen about desiring to kill the President (AFAIK). Or words to incite a riot. Or words to encourage someone to an illegal act, in many cases; you become an accomplice. You can’t tell someone where to hide from the cops and claim you weren’t part of the act (“aiding and abetting”). You can’t scream out someone’s address in the hope or knowing that that person’s house might be attacked (for example, you couldn’t give OJ’s home address to the Klan and expect to get off scot-free).

    The list goes on. Every right we have can be limited in some way. Our Constitution buttresses our counterarguments and erodes possible intrusions, but doesn’t completely elimnate the limitations.

    Like


  214. on July 24, 2009 at 5:01 pm Seeking Alpha

    gig

    What’s your total AUM? Our youngest partner is in his 40s.

    Like


  215. Chuck: “Anyway, what’s “disastrous” about yelling at a cop? In the fire example, people can die or be seriously injured. In this case, it sounds like a typical day at work for the cop.”

    —its not the cop per se here; its people in general. The “Broken Windows” theory applies: if someone can just scream and yell obscenities, insults, attacks, threats at the top of their lungs obnoxiously, the neighborhood deteriorates—people feel unsafe and disrespected. If authority figures can’t take reasonable means to uphold societal respect, then we devolve into, well, college campuses (which are private, for the most part).

    Like


  216. on July 24, 2009 at 5:04 pm Seeking Alpha

    Doug

    How is that really in Jewish best interests, rationally considered?

    I wouldn’t know what ‘Jewish’ best interests are and I’m getting a little bored of the angle.

    Few people think America is woefully underpopulated. The needs of our economy are different.

    I didn’t say it is. I said if – as someone suggested – we had stopped all immigration after the civil war, we would have remained woefully underpopulated and never risen to superpower status – at least not last century like we did.

    And if we hadn’t, Europe would likely be one country/one continent now instead of us.

    Like


  217. Seeking Alpha,

    Your definition excludes one very important ingredient, white people. The white race is a necessary but insufficient condition for Western Civilization, which is an amalgamation of the Christian religion with the remnants of the classical Greco-Roman civilization and the cultures of the northern barbarians. Chrisitianity itself being derived from Judaism so Jews are Westerners as well.

    “We’re not a nation of factory workers anymore.”

    Why not? Did everyone in America suddenly get above-average IQs?

    “Is the average standard of living for a white American higher or lower than 50 years ago? All our essentials are cheaper and all our basic luxuries are cheaper.”

    Housing? College/Schooling? Medical Insurance/Care? Vacations? Comfort and security with single incomes?

    Like


  218. @lurker

    1. Killing the president.

    A credible threats to kill someone is illegal, yes (threating another person’s life is a crime even if it’s not the president) are fine.

    2. Inciting a riot.

    Here you’re directly causing damage/injury/death.

    3. Words to encourage an illegal act, in many cases.

    “In many cases” is really broad. You can post bomb plans on the internet and not be arrested. Words to encourage an illegal act have to practically be on the level of doing it yourself to get arrested for it.

    4. Aiding and abetting

    More engaging in criminal behavior.

    5. trying to get someone killed by revealing information

    Again, more with the encouraging criminal behavior/damage/loss of life, etc.

    Calling someone a racist is not criminal (even if you’re wrong), nor does it cause damage, nor does it cause the loss of life.

    The laws and judges are usually reasonable, and they limit rights when it makes sense. The fact that it’s legal for a cop to arrest you for being loud and annoying and insulting is not reasonable. Wtf, is what I’m saying.

    Like


  219. other chuck,

    the cops were leaving, but Gates decided to follow them outside his house still hurling calls of racism at the crowly.

    if this incident isn’t about race, then chalk it up to yet another instance of too much police power. but at the same time, citizens know the extent of police power, and they can either choose to test it by yelling at the cops or they can abide by closing the door behind the cops as they leave.

    Gates is the one making this a race issue, obviously. he *could* take this opportunity to discuss the overarching power grab of the police, one that may or may not conflict our natural rights as citizens. instead, he plays the race card, ineffectively, derailing the real issue at hand.

    Like


  220. Seeking Alpha–

    I’ve never been a super immigration restrictionist.

    I want to let in sizeable numbers of the best and the brightest.

    Why not address my other points?

    About deporting illegals in these high unemployment times. And being sure none of the stimulus jobs money goes to employ them, while unemployment levels are as they are?

    What about the problems in becoming a nation where the majority “needs” affirmative action?

    What kind of insanity is it to give affirmative action to mass numbers of immigrants, or their children?

    Like


  221. on July 24, 2009 at 5:18 pm Seeking Alpha

    Andrew

    ‘White’ isn’t a race. There are actual races. And Northern Europeans and Southern Europeans are two distinct races. Specifically, Northern Europeans are the ‘pure’ race, who would occasionally sweep down and conquer the Southern Europeans and mix with them. So the ‘pure’ white race is actually a barbarous, warrior race, while the Mediterranean race is a hybrid.

    Why not? Did everyone in America suddenly get above-average IQs?

    Well manufacturing is 22% of the workforce, so my point still holds.

    Housing? College/Schooling? Medical Insurance/Care? Vacations?

    Well all those things are being consumed. Do you think it’s only the rich? Fully 33% of White Americans hold a college degree and that’s including older white Americans. And a college degree is not necessary for many types of work. Most Americans have health insurance. Almost all Americans have housing. Most Americans have vacations. So yea, I think we’re doing just fine.

    Like


  222. >>its not the cop per se here; its people in general. The “Broken Windows” theory applies: if someone can just scream and yell obscenities, insults, attacks, threats at the top of their lungs obnoxiously, the neighborhood deteriorates—people feel unsafe and disrespected.

    Yes. Cambridge, Massachusetts is very unsafe. Those crazy professors are liable to shoot you up. Come on, no one in a neighborhood rich enough that Ivy league professors live there is going to think that they’re unsafe because of one incident.

    >>If authority figures can’t take reasonable means to uphold societal respect, then we devolve into, well, college campuses (which are private, for the most part).

    If authority figures take what they think are reasonable means to uphold societal respect, you end up in the gulag. If you’re calling on pop economics with the whole “broken window” theory, I’ll call on pop philosophy and invoke the whole “slippery slope” argument.

    Seriously, no figure of authority should be allowed to lock me up because he thinks I’m disrespectful. If I am directly interfering with his job or harming other people by my disrespect, then he has that right. But otherwise it’s him having a right that he should not have.

    Like


  223. on July 24, 2009 at 5:20 pm mandy been here a while

    “@ gig

    makes sense to support immigration as it would reduce the risk that the white Christian majority (like Roissy, PA, Doug and AJ travis) would unleash a pogrom against you

    I don’t think any Jew consciously thinks this way, and I certainly don’t. I support immigration because I believe (and would happily change my mind if proved wrong) that the biggest drivers of national power are population and economic potential and that immigration is the only way to preserve our edge in both. And I don’t believe that continued immigration will change our Anglo-Saxon culture. I believe second generation Hispanic teens are more like white American teens than Hispanic Mexican teens.”

    Some Rabbis have said exactly this.

    Like


  224. a bit more than 1bn USD.

    the big partners, those who have around 20% of the fund, are all around 40. but the last two partners became so at 28, and both have around 2% of the fund now.

    Like


  225. Chuck:

    “Come on, no one in a neighborhood rich enough that Ivy league professors live there is going to think that they’re unsafe because of one incident.”
    –a man screaming and yelling profanities for nothing more than police following procedure? You don’t think that’ll have an affect on the neighborhood? What, only poor people gotta follow the rules now?

    “If authority figures take what they think are reasonable means to uphold societal respect, you end up in the gulag.”
    —Chuck, you’re being reactionary. You’re posited a false choice, either gulag or freedom. This is a much more middle ground.

    “I’ll call on pop philosophy and invoke the whole “slippery slope” argument.”
    –Chuck, these laws have been in place since the Founding. In fact, your slippery slope goes the other way: we’ve removed a lot of barriers for people to act like idiots in the name of freedom. Quite frankly, your argument falls apart on that.

    “But otherwise it’s him having a right that he should not have.”
    —so again, you beliee people shoudl ahve the right to swear at, insult, and call racist anyone on the street at the top of their lungs with no repercussions?

    Like


  226. the world turned upside down:

    the largest IPO in the US this year risks being of a Brazilian firm trying to get external funding.

    Like


  227. Chuck–

    The laws and judges are usually reasonable, and they limit rights when it makes sense.

    I guess you don’t know about family law and family courts.

    This quickly dropped disorderly conduct is utterly trivial in comparison. It’s also something he could very easily have avoided entirely. Unlike men in family courts under feminist family law these days.

    Like


  228. on July 24, 2009 at 5:29 pm Seeking Alpha

    Doug

    I didn’t address your points because you weren’t addressing mine. You’re talking about illegal aliens and I haven’t said anything about them. But we can have that discussion. I think I’ll stay at work a little longer to continue this discussion.

    For illegal immigration:

    It’s not possible to deport them all. Let’s admit that up front. Not even close.

    Also, I’m against illegal immigration. Absolutely. I think it’s difficult to become a true citizen if your very first act in this country was to break its laws.

    But I think a lot of people here would kick them out and shut the door behind them. And I believe that would cause a lot of long-term economic problems.

    Moving on to… Ideal legal immigration

    I don’t know enough about immigration law and the various states of citizenship (green card, visa, etc.) to suggest detailed policies.

    But I think the goal of any immigration policy should be to give businesses the workers they need. Whether cherry pickers on a Californian farm or electronic chip engineers in a Texas design lab.

    If you want to frame it in pro-white terms… we’ll always have mild inflation in goods and services. If we don’t have non-whites doing our menial labor, that means fellow whites will fall behind as an underclass and not be able to afford a decent life.

    Like


  229. one of the big partners joked in the morning call meeting today: “worst than having a black president, is suffering the humiliation of having the largest IPO in the year being held by a Brazilian firm”

    I sincerely laughed

    Like


  230. on July 24, 2009 at 5:30 pm Seeking Alpha

    Mandy – Links to that? If that’s the case, I think it’s deplorable. I also think I could find a lot of nasty, deplorable things that white Christians have said, but I wouldn’t attribute them to an entire religion or people.

    Like


  231. on July 24, 2009 at 5:32 pm Seeking Alpha

    Gig

    Where do you work/live? NYC?

    We’re about 6bn AUM, 50/50 PE/HF, founded in 1994. Besides that one partner whose 40, the rest are 50s. I don’t think I’ll ever make partner here. Hoping to get enough experience here to move onto something smaller/newer but with more opportunity for growth.

    Like


  232. on July 24, 2009 at 5:33 pm Seeking Alpha

    And Doug, I just meant to bold my heading, not the entire part on illegal immigration.

    Like


  233. São Paulo, Brazil

    Like


  234. on July 24, 2009 at 5:35 pm Seeking Alpha

    Gig

    Oh okay. I thought you were Brazil, but then you were talking about ‘our’ industry and for some reason I thought you meant you were at risk as well.

    So much for suggesting we grab a drink!

    Like


  235. Rob–

    Implicit bias works through the best of characters.

    Now that is the work of some extensive PC propaganda.

    Whites lean over backwards to be more than fair to blacks all the time. To let go things they wouldn’t with other whites, and so on. Probably happens a lot more often.

    Like


  236. I bet you are more at risk than me.

    The problem is that the actions of the American president give ideas to the rest of the world

    Like


  237. Obama, for example, may take the marginal tax rate over 50%. ours here stands at 27.5%.

    I can see the usual people complaining that rich people here taxed to low

    Like


  238. on July 24, 2009 at 5:41 pm Seeking Alpha

    Hmmm… good point Gig. What’s it like living under Lula. Is he pretty benign or is it a hostile environment?

    Like


  239. traitorous filth:
    It’s not possible to deport them all. Let’s admit that up front. Not even close.

    if it’s possible to put men on the moon with 1960s technology, it’s possible to kick out illegal squatters with 2009 technology.
    do not confuse means with the will to use those means.

    If we don’t have non-whites doing our menial labor, that means fellow whites will fall behind as an underclass and not be able to afford a decent life.

    externalities, doofus. externalities.

    Like


  240. ”””””””””mandy been here a while
    “””””””’@ gig

    makes sense to support immigration as it would reduce the risk that the white Christian majority (like Roissy, PA, Doug and AJ travis) would unleash a pogrom against you”””””””””””””

    I don’t think any Jew consciously thinks this way, and I certainly don’t. I support immigration because I believe (and would happily change my mind if proved wrong) that the biggest drivers of national power are population and economic potential and that immigration is the only way to preserve our edge in both. And I don’t believe that continued immigration will change our Anglo-Saxon culture. I believe second generation Hispanic teens are more like white American teens than Hispanic Mexican teens.”

    Some Rabbis have said exactly this.””””””””””””’

    Dam is that busted?

    Like


  241. on July 24, 2009 at 5:44 pm mandy been here a while

    Seeking Alpha

    I’ll have to look it up and then I will link it for you.

    I do not attribute this to an entire group of people.

    But to pretend that there is not a lot of anti-white Christian sentiment among Rabbis is disingenuous.

    Like


  242. on July 24, 2009 at 5:46 pm Seeking Alpha

    if it’s possible to put men on the moon with 1960s technology, it’s possible to kick out illegal squatters with 2009 technology.
    do not confuse means with the will to use those means.

    Come on man. I’m with you that they shouldn’t be here.

    But there are over 10 million of them. How would you catch them all? It’d probably take a year just to physically move them all out.

    [editor: i’m down wit dat.]

    Like


  243. Seeking Alpha,

    “White isn’t a race.”

    People don’t self-identify as white? Since when?

    “We’re doing just fine”

    By what measure, our consumption? How is that consumption financed? See:

    http://www.comstockfunds.com/files/NLPP00000%5C292.pdf

    Like


  244. on July 24, 2009 at 5:49 pm Seeking Alpha

    But to pretend that there is not a lot of anti-white Christian sentiment among Rabbis is disingenuous.

    I don’t think there is ‘a lot’, no. I think most religious leaders, either Christian or Jewish, are very tolerant people.

    I’m guessing you don’t know too many rabbis.

    Like


  245. ””””””’gig
    one of the big partners joked in the morning call meeting today: “worst than having a black president, is suffering the humiliation of having the largest IPO in the year being held by a Brazilian firm”

    I sincerely laughed””””””””””

    That is pretty bad.

    Embarrassment was when the textile mills in north carolina area got moved in totality to china after the employees trained some chineese so they could send us back the finished product. Then you do an antique show in the area and no one has any money so you can see some trickle down in real time.

    Like


  246. we pay medicines for AIDS infected people, we have gay marriage, our divorce laws are screwed like yours, amerindians have constitutional rights above the rest of the poputation and we have HUGE environmental laws

    but the government kept the fiscal deficit and the public debt on downward path, the Central Bank has been the best on the world in performance in the last decade and the credit industry is regulated enough to avoid the CRA excesses.

    Agribusiness, Construction, MIning and Finance boomed and are starting to boom again. The country grew 5% a year. the decline in the youth population caused a huge decrease in violence

    And São Paulo is now the fourth largest stock exchange on Earth. I consider our girls the prettiest and way more feminine than anglo-saxon harpies, my industry is booming, our food is beter, our music is better and we play the best soccer. I am quite supremacist, BTW

    Like


  247. on July 24, 2009 at 5:54 pm Seeking Alpha

    Andrew

    So if all Hispanics self-identify as ‘white’ then they are? Race is about blood, not self-identification.

    [editor: gnxp had a study showing that self-identification matches up with genetic race at a 99% confidence level.]

    And ‘credit market debt’ is the wrong way to think about it. The Federal Reserve tracks household wealth. This was 50trn as of Mar 31st. Consumer credit was 2.5 trillion as of the same time. So consumption financing is actually quite small.

    But we don’t need numbers. Look around you. Only an ideologically bound person desperately trying to make his point can argue that we are not a richer nation than we were 50 years ago.

    [lag time, traitor. average IQ correlates with gdp fairly well. see: lynn & vanhanen. open the doors to a lower iq population and you are bound to lose relative gdp points over the ensuing decades. not to mention the rush by the productive class to get the hell out of whole regions of the US that are infested with the lovely newcomers and their, uh, cultural vibrancy. see: fbi crime stats. see: educational attainment of 4th generation mexican immigrants. oh, btw, have you seen cali’s budget deficit lately?]

    Like


  248. on July 24, 2009 at 5:56 pm Seeking Alpha

    gig

    Overall, sounds like good stuff. But it seems impossible. You’re saying your country is on an upward trajectory without being of homogeneous racial stock? I thought that was impossible!

    Like


  249. on July 24, 2009 at 5:57 pm Seeking Alpha

    [editor: i’m down wit dat.]

    As am I, my friend.

    Like


  250. on July 24, 2009 at 5:57 pm mandy been here a while

    I’ve known Chabad ones. There understanding of the Talmud teachings on Goyim does not sit well with me.

    Christianity is considered Avoda Zara.

    Like


  251. on July 24, 2009 at 5:59 pm Seeking Alpha

    Chabad hardly represents ‘a lot’. It’s 200k out of 6mm American Jews.

    Like


  252. Seeking Alpha–

    It’s not possible to deport them all. Let’s admit that up front. Not even close.

    So it’s said as a truism. I don’t know that that’s true. It would take awhile. Eisenhower deported a whole lot. Smaller numbers but then we were a smaller country back then with fewer agents etc. Would require effective employer and other screening.

    Let’s admit up front that the feds aren’t doing anything more than pretending to deport many at all, even in these soaring unemployment times. Nor are they doing much if any stimulus money employment screening for illegals.

    If you want to frame it in pro-white terms…

    I don’t particularly. I frame and think of it in terms of those who are already citizens today. I think in terms of the strongest and richest country we can be down the road, overall, not just for whites, or just whites and Asians. I don’t want to ignore or feel ashamed of considering specifically white American interests, but it’s not a strong focus for me. I’m more focused on American culture, with it’s lumps, which I mostly like. I don’t want it to be swamped however, as the illegal Mexican and Central American immigration is threatening to do, particularly in some states such as California. I also have concerns about the effects on black male employment particularly in these times, of such illegal immigrants being allowed to remain and not be deported.

    Should any immigrants or their progeny get affirmative action? They came voluntarily. What is the logic of letting people in because our businesses need them as you advocate, and then giving them or their kids affirmative action?

    Like


  253. besides complaining about the ugliness of blacks, my most recurrent theme here is my fear of taxes

    an American marginal rate above 50% will ensure that the Brazilian marginal rate will move to 35, maybe 40%, enabled by the huge NAM masses here who would vote for any demagogue promising that

    I need America to give a good example.

    Like


  254. on July 24, 2009 at 6:03 pm mandy been here a while

    True, they are not a lot. Should be talk about the Zionists then? How are those Christians in Israel doing?

    Like


  255. Seeking Alpha,

    You make it really easy for people to dislike you. If Hispanics were white then the word ‘Hispanics’ wouldn’t exist.

    Credit market debt was $45 trillion end of year 2006. Why does anyone listen to the Fed anymore? The federal government is in the red over $50 trillion. Who’s responsible to pay for that but the American people. What was the federal government’s total present and future liabilities in 1959? What was our current account debt then versus now? You are lying.

    Like


  256. on July 24, 2009 at 6:07 pm Jack Burton

    Let’s not be stupid, boys and girls: this is the best thing that has ever happened to Henry Louis Gates, Jr. and it happened pretty much exactly the way he wanted it to happen (except I’m sure he wishes the cop had hit him).

    Gates is not stupid. When that cop showed up at his house, he recognized the TITANIC opportunity his presence represented, and immediately set about extracting the maximum personal benefit possible from the situation. How? By attempting to provoke the cop to strike him, which would have been the best possible outcome for Gates.

    Even in this slightly less than best case scenario, Gates makes out like a bandit: He’s front page news; the magazine articles, book and documentary he generates based on this episode will enjoy free publicity orders of magnitude greater than his work usually gets; black Jesus even called him a personal friend on national TV. For a black public intellectual in America, this is a huge, HUGE windfall.

    Cui bono, baby.

    PS Thanks to Roissy for noting what a dickless twerp Gates is, a fact lacking from most of the rest of the commentary out there.

    Like


  257. Replace all the blacks with Mexicans would be great for the country. Aren’t we tired of typical black behavior by now? They never know how to act like decent human beings.

    [editor: it wouldn’t be a replacement, it would be an addition. just what the country needs… a second underclass and all that entails in robin hooding vengeance. and before seeking traitor replies, do note that it is not absolute poverty which is the leading indicator of all-against-all societal decay, but the envy engendered by relative povery.]

    Like


  258. on July 24, 2009 at 6:18 pm Seeking Alpha

    Andrew

    You’re not very smart and arguing with me illogically about points you don’t understand.

    Mandy

    I don’t know why you’re trying to convince me that hate exists in anything but a minor way in either Christianity or Judaism. You’re trying to force a point we know to be incorrect. Of course there is hate between all groups at the fringes but neither religion preaches intolerance at its core.

    To rest

    Have a good weekend.

    Like


  259. @mandy

    you posted a picture of you some time ago. Could you re-post it?

    also, what´s your age again?

    Like


  260. oh, btw, have you seen cali’s budget deficit lately?

    Please, that is not as much a result of illegal immigration or legal Mexican immigration as a whole host of a other factors.

    [editor: cra say what?]

    Like


  261. you would not have to physically deport them all

    all you would have to do is remove all policy incentives for them to stay.

    no anchor babies citizenship, no public schooling, food stamps, medical care, getting a driver’s license or renting/buying a house without proof of citizenship. no spanish language anything. make it HARD for them to be here and i think they’ll leave

    then deport the rest!

    Like


  262. Gates is not a scholar. He’s a con-man. Nearly all of his stuff is written by his army of 35 writers, 12 fact checkers, and 7 editors. He’s a brand not a real scholar. His work is actually done by others. He’s a “Black Studies” Professor. Gimme a break. Guy provoked his arrest to pimp his PBS special on “Racism in America” where his pal the Black Mayor, the Black Governor, and the Black President all back him publicly. Against the White middle class cop who once desperately tried to revive Reggie Lewis with CPR when Lewis collapsed during practice. And taught anti-profiling classes at the Academy.

    Read the arrest report at Smoking Gun. Apparently the cops will release the audio recorded over the open mike of the cop’s radio. Won’t look good for Obama or Gates.

    The Black cop who was there backs his White colleague in the arrest. The police union is asking for an Obama/Patrick apology and Obama gave a non-apology apology today.

    This is about cronyism and race, wrapped up in the fact that Government and Obama run everything now. Cronyism and race were acceptable as long as government was small, times were good, and there were no horrific downsides. Obama wanting to run your doctor’s care, your medical treatments, your way of life (green crap cap and trade) means the stakes got stratospheric, no one can “trust” someone from another race because of the amply demonstrated risk of Black cronyism/race-man solidarity against Whites, and must adopt their own identity politics.

    Rasmussen has Obama underwater in approval ratings (below 50%) and below 50% for his Obamacare. Even women only approve of Obama slightly, about 4% more than men on both measures. This was a hideous mistake for Obama.

    You can have small government and identity race-baiting politics (hate Whitey) or big government and smashing of all identity / race-baiting politics. You can’t have both. Even White Women care about getting a fair deal for their breast cancer issues, other hugely expensive treatment concerns being screwed over for Blacks and Hispanics. [This was the wedge issue the BNP used successfully to get itself elected to the European Parliament for the first time.]

    Like


  263. I am quite an unsuccesful anti-semite, my hitlerian tendencies nullified by my easiness in befriending individual jews, while believing in the entire discourse of Kevin Macdonald. my best wingman is Jew, my best teacher in graduate school is Jew, my best friend in my former city is jew and I (technically) donated money to find a Jewish friend lost in Malawi.

    so for me a anti-semitic wife is a plus. I need that
    “drank anti-semtism from mommy´s breasts” stuff

    Like


  264. @mandy

    do you cook?

    Like


  265. as a jew who opposes most immigration, i don’t give a flying fuck that it’s “unfair” that my family got to immigrate here and other peoples might not.

    immigrants are as bad as our policies allow them to be. my family came here and created wealth out of hard work and good investment–they didn’t take a dime from government or charity and have paid a FORTUNE in income taxes over the years. they weren’t communists or agitators and are deeply grateful to the US for giving them refuge after the war. there was NO reason for the US to allow ungrateful bigmouthed communist or *cough* “liberal” jews to prosper in the US though after WW2 and they should have been deported. immigrants should be expected to assimilate wholly without one special concession. if they don’t like it–bye-eee

    if jews think letting a bunch of primitive anti-semitic brown people into the US is going to somehow save them from evil white people they are clinically insane.

    Like


  266. “It’s not possible to deport them all. Let’s admit that up front. Not even close.”

    Of course it’s possible. Go google “Operation Wetback.” Eisenhower managed it with 1950s technology. It’s not presently politically palatable, because a lot of dirtballs have subverted democracy. Not only was Operation Wetback easily done; it was incredibly effective, and incredibly awesome in how it was executed. Rather than giving them pleasant plane rides home, we put them on a giant cargo boat and sent them on a pukefest around Cape Horn, giving them a valuable lesson in “don’t fuck with the man who defeated the Nazis.”

    Like


  267. I believe second generation Hispanic teens are more like white American teens than Hispanic Mexican teens.

    Will nth generation brown immigrants’ daughters have blue eyes, nordic grace, silken hair, slender bodies, and creamy skin?

    If not, then they will never be like like white American teens.

    Look, there are tons of countries that produce brown teens. Why do you have this fucking problem with a few countries being left alone to continue producing white teens?

    Like


  268. Gates is not a scholar.

    Gates, at his best, is a very good writer and critic. Akshay Ahuja over at the Occasional Review has a nice summary of Gates’ literary virtues (and failings).

    Like


  269. Meanwhile:

    http://www.citypaper.com/archivesbrowse.asp?columntitle=Murder%20Ink

    Six killed this week, one a white woman, but mostly just blacks killing blacks. Week in and week out. Damn those white cops.

    My house was robbed by black people.
    My son was assaulted by black non-students in the high school school parking lot, random racial assault.
    I have been verbally threated by blacks on at least two occasions while minding my own business (while in a black part of town.)
    I have been insulted because of my race by blacks.
    I have been racially taunted for dating a black girl (by black men.)

    I doubt there is a white person who doesn’t have a first degree relative or a good friend who has not been victimized by black crime.

    Black crime and black racism in this country is unrelenting.

    Like


  270. We did not bring them here forcibly, so it is not necessary to deport them forcibly. They came here voluntarily because economic, political and social conditions encouraged them to come. Change those conditions, and they will go away voluntarily. Voluntary attrition makes force unnecessary (not that I’m against brute force, mind you).

    Like


  271. on July 24, 2009 at 9:02 pm mandy been here a while

    Gig
    you are confusing me with 17 year old Mandy.

    I’m not an anti- Semite. My grandmother was a Jew and I can appreciate a lot of good in Judaism. But I know that some unflattering stereotypes are sometimes true.

    Like


  272. @mandybeenhereawhile:

    “But I know that some unflattering stereotypes are sometimes true.”
    This is true for all groups.

    Like


  273. Well, I see the gang’s all here.

    I too saw the recent Obama Healthcare Press Conference the other night on tv, and saw/heard his response to the Skip Gates controversey; up until that time, I wasn’t even aware of it, busy as I am tending to legal and business matters over the past week or so.

    But when I learned a bit of what the hub bub was all about…well, I’ll just put it this way.

    My problem w/racial profiling is that for some strange and odd reason, many Whites (not all) seem unable, or indeed unwilling, to distinguish Blacks who appear safe, harmless and law-abiding, and Blacks who appear fearsome, could make trouble for others, and are law-breaking.

    For example, taking myself to illustrate the point, I’ve been out and about meeting my advisors on various matters; in no way do I look like a gangbanger, criminal, thug, drug dealer, etc. And *yet*, its quite possible that I too could wind up like Skip Gates, locked up or worse, on some dumb ish.

    Its happened to quite a few Black Men I’ve known over the years, none of whom looked or acted anything like Pookie & Ray-Ray. They were accomplished professionals in deportment and in fact.

    There have been Black cops who were treated like Skip Gates.

    As for Gates himself, I don’t have any axe to grind against him, nor do I necessarily carry a torch for him either; I’m rather neutral on the guy to tell the truth. I do recognize that he’s considered a leadin academic when it comes to Africana Studies out of Harvard…which brings me to something else…

    All you (largely White guys) hating on th Academy and the way it works, you might as well stop right now, unless you willing, ready and able to get in the Mutha and make the needed changes. You can start w/the Tenure System, which basicaly guarantees that few if any academics/professors make any real gamechanging contributions to their fields. Anyone w/a scintilla of academic understanding knows well that most professors cease being productive once they get tenure, and the vast majority of professors have never worked in research, nor do they have any inclination to do so. That’s in ANY field.

    So, to hate on Gates, as if he’s invented the Do-Nothing Professoriate, is a seriously laughable joke. Again, I don’t have a dog in the fight insofar as he’s concerned, I’m just sayin.

    And one other thing…

    DeTocqueville hit the nail on the head-Black folks may indeed see race a bit too much, but damn if White folks being in denial (publicly) about race, ie, “being colorblind” aint part of the problem too. Get this: America is a race-obsessed society, country, nation, polity. We are both nutured and bedeviled by it. That’s the truth, Ruth.

    So, White folks might as well stop getting mad that Black folks have learned how to play the Great American Skin Game, too, and this especially goes for politics, which has always been a matter of ethnicity here in the States. The Irish, Germans, Italians, Poles, you name it, all of em played their hand at the game in big city politics, well, now it’s dem Darkies’ turn. You’ll just have to take it. Nothing pisses me off more than a bunch of crocodile tear weeping White guys who all of a sudden found their cajones when BLACK PEOPLE start doing the very same thing that different groups of White folk have been doing in this country for CENTURIES. A bigger conceit is harder to find.

    As for Obama’s speaking out on the Gates’ thing, last time I heard he was an American citizen, and is entitled to his view. The People will decide if they’re cool w/that or not.

    His prescriptions for Healthcare however, from all that I’ve been able to glean, I am not in agreement with.

    Y’all holla back-The Obsidian has returned…

    O

    Like


  274. >>“If authority figures take what they think are reasonable means to uphold societal respect, you end up in the gulag.”
    —Chuck, you’re being reactionary. You’re posited a false choice, either gulag or freedom. This is a much more middle ground.

    “I’ll call on pop philosophy and invoke the whole “slippery slope” argument.”
    –Chuck, these laws have been in place since the Founding. In fact, your slippery slope goes the other way: we’ve removed a lot of barriers for people to act like idiots in the name of freedom. Quite frankly, your argument falls apart on that.

    I thought it was obvious I was being sarcastic with the whole gulag thing, trying to copy the ridiculousness of the whole Broken Window thing. Guess not. Let me re-explain. It’s not that rich people should be given special privilege to scream, or that allowing cops to arrest angry people is going to result in a fascist state. Rather, I just wanted to say that this one incident is unlikely to foster in an era of crime in Gates’ neighborhood, a result I find as unlikely as you are to find the gulag.

    >>—so again, you beliee people shoudl ahve the right to swear at, insult, and call racist anyone on the street at the top of their lungs with no repercussions?

    Yes.

    It’s not like there’s going to be NO repurcussions – his neighbors and colleagues are likely to treat him much more warily and perhaps even ostracize him after an incident like this. It’s not like screaming at a cop is smart or likely to result in a good outcome. But I don’t think he should be arrested. People shouldn’t be arrested when they’re not hurting anyone, restricting someone else’s rights, or destroying property. And none of those things happened. Simple as that.

    Like


  275. on July 24, 2009 at 9:35 pm GNPs are for Apes

    Obsidian,

    I think both the Henry Gates episode and the Barbara Boxer/Alford episode are two sides of the same coin.

    Whenever a black person gets a bit of misfortune, there is an entire industry set to cash in and play the victim. Borat Hussein Osama is part of this machine.

    However, white leftists like Boxer really don’t think of black people as ‘people’ who can have the full array of opinions. Her condescencion towards an intelligent man like Harry Alford, is the real racism of today.

    It is the LEFT that is racist, hence their need to project onto others. Sadly, most black people don’t see this, and thus vote 96% Democrat.

    Like


  276. Apeman,
    I think the blind are those like yourself, when you attempt to argue that Black folk aren’t smart enough to know what their interests are. They know full well why they vote overwhelmingly Dem. Now, you can make the case that said interests/reasons are wrongheaded-like I do-but for you to try to make the argument you just made only serves to alienate even more Black folks.

    You Conservatives, the White ones I mean, just don’t get it, do you? Browbeating folk aint gonna get it. You gotta woo em into it-just like you woo a Woman into your bed? Going Caveman rarely works, truth be told, and its the same deal in Politics, too.

    Get a clue, brother.

    O

    Like


  277. Fuck, I don’t know how to make it any clearer than that – there’s a fundamental human right to not be arrested by your government unless you’re harming someone else.

    Like


  278. on July 24, 2009 at 9:51 pm GNPs are for Apes

    Again, I see far more outrage about this HL Gates non-incident than about

    1) The Duke Lacrosse case
    2) The Pendleton Marine murder case
    3) The 4 Oakland police murder case

    Black victimologists have done exactly what feminists have done.

    It would be wise for black men to see themselves as men first, and fight feminism, rather than as blacks first, to extort from the white man.

    Soon, white men will have had enough. The only question is, who gets their deserved punishment first – feminists or black victimologists?

    Like


  279. Apeman,
    My ONLY job is to live a productive life and to be recognized as an individual, that I either rise or fall on my own merits or the lack thereof. In no way will I allow myself to have to answer for the actions of others, no matter how much they may resemble me. The Rights of the Individuals is a Sin Qua Non of the American Way.

    Secondly…

    Fact: violent crime of all kinds have gone down, accordin to FBI stats. This is due largely to two reasons: one, because Black criminals are being locked up in larger numbers and for longer sentences; and two, because Black criminals tend to murder other Black criminals, by and large. Watch The Wire, you’ll understand.

    As for Black Women not being profiled as much, you’re right. All that says is, like White Women, Black Women don’t as a rule tend to commit violent crimes as much as do White and Black Men comparitively speaking. *shrugs*

    Lastly…

    Again, there have been Black cops who’ve been treated like Skip Gates. And as I’ve said, I’ve known Black professionals, quite older than myself, who were also treated like Gates, sans his alleged “Yo Mama” remarks, in other words, these Brothas were cool, calm and collected and they were still given the Gates treatment.

    O

    Like


  280. there’s a fundamental human right to not be arrested by your government unless you’re harming someone else.

    The problem with libertarianism has always been in defining what constitutes harm. Which is one of the reasons libertarianism is so incoherent.

    Like


  281. Apeman,
    As for your argument that Black Men should be out there decrying the evils of Feminism, they have, for quite some time, and long before the MGTOW thing came along-it’s called Hip Hop.

    Give it a listen.

    O

    Like


  282. on July 24, 2009 at 9:56 pm GNPs are for Apes

    Black folk aren’t smart enough to know what their interests are. They know full well why they vote overwhelmingly Dem.

    You may wish that this were the case, but clearly it is not.

    Blacks still approve of Obama 97%. Whites + Hispanics + Asians only approve 43%. No white, Hispanic, or Asian politican will ever get a 97% approval rating from his OWN race. Period.

    Blacks are far more race obsessed than any other race. You know this – hell, you call yourself ‘Obsidian’, rather than simply Mu’Min.

    Blacks, evidently, are not familiar with Robert Byrd, George Wallace, etc. All were prominent well after the Nixonian ‘southern strategy’.

    No matter what Obama does, his approval rating among blacks will never drop below 95%. You know as well as I that this cannot possibly be the result of rational analysis. Admit it.

    Like


  283. @Obsidian:

    A lot of social theorists peg lowering crime rates as a corollary of abortion. Not that those other factors you mentioned don’t have anything to do with it.

    Like


  284. on July 24, 2009 at 9:57 pm GNPs are for Apes

    Obsidian,

    I know you read this question, so answer it :

    Please reconcile for us your highly astute understanding of feminist victim-card-playing extortion, vs. your inability to admit that black victim-card playing is exactly the same thing.

    Precisely what is the difference between HL Gates, Rev. Wright, Jesse Jackson, etc. vs. Gloria Steinem, Andrea Dworkin, Catharine MacKinnon, etc.?

    Like


  285. @GNPs are for Apes:

    What do you think contributes to blacks being disproprotionately fixated on race?

    Like


  286. Obsidian:

    Steve Sailer has noted that the best way to keep racial profiling from coming down too hard on law abiding blacks is not to dispense with stereotyping, but to get better at stereotyping. For example, police should be taught how to distinguish between how middle class blacks dress and act and how potentially criminal blacks dress and act. Smarter stereotypes, not no stereoptypes.

    Like


  287. S.,
    Yes, I’m familiar w/the Abortion lowerin (Black) Crime argument, and I’ve read a number of dissenters, among them, Sailer. I really don’t have a dog in the fight one way or another, because the fact remains that we lockup more Black criminals than we ever have, as well as the fact that Blac folk kill Black folk more than anyone else, no matter how much the socalled “Pro White” guys wanna jump up and down.

    Apeman,
    Yea, Black folks support Obama overwhelmingly. This is the first time they *could* support one of their own. So?

    O

    Like


  288. Roissy and many others on here defending over-reaching state power?! State power that allows a man to be arrested on what appears to be a BS charge for doing nothing wrong? Has the world gone topsy-turvy?

    So, which ranks highest in your ideology hierarchy? Less government and government intrusion in people’s lives, identifying with “alphas”, or sticking it to the SWPL/PC/Left crowd?

    Judging from this thread it looks like the latter two are tied in your minds.

    Like


  289. on July 24, 2009 at 10:04 pm GNPs are for Apes

    I repeat again : The numbers say it all.

    Barack Obama (half-black) gets a 97% approval rating from blacks.

    Rudy Giuliani would never get a 97% approval rating from Italian-Americans in New York

    Bobby Jindal would never get a 97% approval rating from Indians.

    Joe Lieberman or Diane Feinstein would never get a 97% approval rating from Jews.

    Bill Richardson or Cruz Bustamante or Antonio Villaraigosa would never get a 97% approval rating from Hispanics.

    Elaine Chao would never get a 97% approval rating from Chinese women.

    It is clear that only one race is so race-obsessed. This, you simply cannot deny, as the numbers do not lie.

    Like


  290. Thursday,
    I don’t disagree w/Sailer in principle-however, where things breaks down for me, as I’ve mentioned earlier, is the simple fact that a lot of White folks simply cannot or will not make the distinction between a business-casual young Black Man like myself, and one who looks like Pookie on the corner of 22nd & Diamond. THAT’S what has to be addressed, for Sailer’s idea to work.

    O

    Like


  291. on July 24, 2009 at 10:09 pm GNPs are for Apes

    Yea, Black folks support Obama overwhelmingly. This is the first time they *could* support one of their own. So?

    Wait, if he is 50% white and 50% black, then he is no more ‘one of their own’ for blacks than for whites, correct?

    Anyway, you have admitted that blacks are the most race-obsessed of all groups.

    We are effectively carrying an African dictatorship of 38 million (about the size of Kenya or Uganda) within our borders, with all the violence, dysfuction, underachievement, and lack of civilization that entails.

    Like


  292. I feel at this time a little bit like Rodney King in an interview when he said, more or less, “Can’t we all get along.”
    See, I don’t blame the cop for arresting a guy (of any race) who starts acting crazy in the middle of the night in the presence of the cops. Put yourself in his shoes. He had no way of knowing just how crazy the dude is going to get. If he walks away and the then mister crazy man butchers a passerby that does not look good either.
    I don’t blame L. Gates for getting angry. There is a reason he was on hair trigger. OTOH, it is never ever the right thing to do to go crazy on a cop in after the sun has gone down. He acted stupid even though he is not. Thing is, he was almost certainly drunk. So, points off.
    I do not blame POTUS Obama for wanting to say what he did but next time maybe he will take the time to learn more about REALLY HAPPENED before making himself and his office look silly and wrong.
    Have you ever heard, “Think it, don’t say it”? At least until you know for sure

    Like


  293. Apeman,
    If I recall, there have been quite a few Italian candidates at all levels of US gov’t, yes? How many Blacks have been able to run for Governor, US Senator, POTUS? Yea, I thought so.

    Blacks’ overwhelming support for Obama is w/o question *racial*, but in no way *racist*. There’s a big difference. Learn it.

    As for your other question, its irrelevant as to whether Black do or don’t reject what McWhorter called “victimology”-when it comes to crime and fighting it, the bottomline is, if you do the crime and you got popped, chances are very high you’re getting heavy time. And that’s what’s important in our discussion-you like to note who commits the crime, and I like to note what’s actually being done about it, which in turn is reflected in the lowering of violent crime accross the board per FBI crime stats.

    Period.

    Next question?

    O

    Like


  294. on July 24, 2009 at 10:11 pm GNPs are for Apes

    is the simple fact that a lot of White folks simply cannot or will not make the distinction between a business-casual young Black Man like myself, and one who looks like Pookie on the corner of 22nd & Diamond.

    Projection. Whites DO make that distinction (which is why they see black men and women differently, as well as white people being fans of Bill Cosby). White people defend Condi Rice and Clarence Thomas all day long.

    It is blacks who see every basic human impediment as ‘racism’. And it shows.

    You are being incredibly dishonest here, and you know it.

    Like


  295. i affe

    “Roissy and many others on here defending over-reaching state power?! State power that allows a man to be arrested on what appears to be a BS charge for doing nothing wrong? Has the world gone topsy-turvy?”

    when you spot a contradiction–check your premises first. i don’t believe any libertarian (and i’ve been one my entire adult life)believes you can act like a raving lunatic and refuse to cooperate with police conducting a legitimate investigation. maybe some other libertarian can set me straight on that

    Like


  296. I_Affe,

    The vast majority of people on this blog want to

    1] Live in a dreamland where white is right and in control.

    2] They are the accepted leaders.

    3] After 1] and 2], maintain status quo till the end of time.

    Not unlike a kid who wants unlimited icecream, victory in every game and perpetual control over the world.

    Sadly, they mistook the status of whites from 1850-1950 as manifest destiny. The emerging reality troubles them, and frankly- I do not care.

    It is fun to watch though…

    Like


  297. Many (at least a significant minority of whites) do not… and that is the problem.

    “Projection. Whites DO make that distinction (which is why they see black men and women differently, as well as white people being fans of Bill Cosby). White people defend Condi Rice and Clarence Thomas all day long.”

    Like


  298. @GNPs are for Apes:

    I totally agree with the statistics you are bringing up about fixation on race blacks seem to have.

    I’m just wondering why this is present disproportionately amongst blacks and not other races… Anyone care to venture?

    Like


  299. Apeman,
    No, fact from my own and many other Black lives. You actually need to spend more time around and among Black folk before you deign to opine. It’s always better to actually know what you’re talking about before you open your mouth.

    The fact that many Whites adore the Blacks you name only highlights many of their cognitive dissonance. Many of those same Whites will instinctively move into a corner of an elevator when a business casually-dressed young Black Man steps into said elevator, or when one of said Whites, as a cop, makes a traffic stop w/said Black Man, and so on.

    There have been all kinds of studies done on this, I think, if memory serves, Standford did one too. Look it up.

    O

    Like


  300. on July 24, 2009 at 10:17 pm GNPs are for Apes

    How many Blacks have been able to run for Governor, US Senator, POTUS?

    A lot, actually. At all levels. HL Gates lives under a black mayor, a black Governor, and a black President.

    Blacks’ overwhelming support for Obama is w/o question *racial*, but in no way *racist*. There’s a big difference. Learn it.

    There isn’t a difference. It is called ‘race obsession’. As I analytically pointed out, no other race or ethnicity is so raced obsessed as to give a 97% approval to someone just for being of their group.

    It is actually pretty dumb, since Obama has exactly the same racial affinity with blacks as with whites (you do know that he is half and half, don’t you)?

    You won’t see Jews, Italians, Indians, Hispanics, or Chinese going 97% for anyone from their respective groups. And you know it.

    And this is the reason blacks underperform all other races economically, everywhere in the world (even where whites do not exist). Bill Cosby gets it. Someday, you might too.

    Like


  301. For example, police should be taught how to distinguish between how middle class blacks dress and act and how potentially criminal blacks dress and act.

    This is a red herring. As I argued before, white Americans have a very finely tuned thug-dar. We IMMEDIATELY assess a black guy for potential trouble. And we rate close to 99% of non-ghetto blacks as completely harmless.

    Like


  302. on July 24, 2009 at 10:18 pm mandy been here a while

    Seekinf alpha

    I think most religious leaders, either Christian or Jewish, are very tolerant people.

    Well that isn’t true either. The history of Jews in Christian Europe is not a happy one. We learn about how “anti-semitic” the Christian Europeans for years in the public schools. Trouble is we never hear the other side of that, coin Anti-Semitism in Europe did not arise in a vacuum

    Jews and Christian Europeans do not live well side by side. If you view this as hateful that is your opinion. But it is simply not true that these groups have positive feelings toward each other.

    Would you argue that most Israeli Jews and Muslim Palestinians are tolerant of each other?

    Like


  303. on July 24, 2009 at 10:20 pm GNPs are for Apes

    You actually need to spend more time around and among Black folk before you deign to opine.

    Projection again. It is you who has to spend time with other races, to see that no other race or ethnicity is so race-obsessed, as to approve 97% of someone of their own race based on race, rather than actions.

    I have provided statistical facts. You provide mere fantasy.

    Many of those same Whites will instinctively move into a corner of an elevator when a business casually-dressed young Black Man steps into said elevator,

    Simply not true. Rather, it is that business casual black who imagines this, due to his race obsession.

    Precisely what is the difference between HL Gates, Rev. Wright, Jesse Jackson, etc. vs. Gloria Steinem, Andrea Dworkin, Catharine MacKinnon, etc.?

    Like


  304. Here are a few questions-

    1] Have your ancestors been sold as property in the last 400 years?

    2] Ever read ‘Dread Vs Scott’ – the supreme court judgement?

    3] Ever had been a member of community that was targeted for public lynchings as late as the mid 1940s?

    4] Ever been denied service because if your skin color (until the late 1960s)

    5] Used as slave labor- first as slaves and then as prisoners? (read a little on the post civil-war south)

    6] Consistently represented in the media as subhuman?

    7] Treated poorly because of what you are, not how you dress.

    And you expect them to play nice.. are you nuts?

    Like


  305. Bingo!! If middle class blacks were treated as true equals, we would not be having this discussion.

    “Many of those same Whites will instinctively move into a corner of an elevator when a business casually-dressed young Black Man steps into said elevator, or when one of said Whites, as a cop, makes a traffic stop w/said Black Man, and so on.”

    Like


  306. There was only one time I ever recall being made nervous by blacks. One time my o m e g a friend Ace and I drove into West Baltimore (don’t ask; we had a good & legit reason for it). I’m talking, sheetmetal shantytown-shy of streets of Ghana. I’m talking places Mr. Kurtz and Dr. Livingstone never made it to.

    Ace goes into a place of business on a side street, and I wait in the parked car. And one by one, black ghetto teenagers are clustering up near the car. Being loud and animated in a normal way, but also “noticing” me sittin gin that car.

    Somethign about the vibe made me uneasy. Not exactly sure what. But this was the only time I ever felt nervous around blacks.

    Like


  307. Dana,

    People often don’t hold completely true to their professed ideologies. They’ll make exceptions, excuses, rationalizations, etc. It’s nothing too horrible; most people do it. I just want to find out what the posters’ reasons are for deviating from the conservative belief of less government power.

    Oh and until I see some more evidence about Gates’ behavior (which most likely was disrespectful towards the officer), then there must be a pretty low bar for being considered a raving lunatic.

    Like


  308. Speak for yourself, Apeman. Roissy for example is a stone’s throw away from the richest per capita Black area in the entire country, Prince George’s County, MD.

    Secondly, while its true that Gate’s lives under Black Guv, Mayor and POTUS, ITS THE FIRST TIME IN USA HISTORY THAT THIS HAS HAPPENED. There have been far and away more Jews, Italians, etc et al in these posts than Black. Starting from Reconstruction, count em up. Start w/US Senators, then we’ll move to Guvs, and then finally POTUS. How many Black have there been in more than a century? You make the call.

    Whites overwhelmingly support their own, and since you wanna bring up Rudy, when he ran against Dinkins, guess who got the lion’s share of NYC’s White-including Italian-vote? Yup, you guessed it, NOT Dinkins-who was seen by ERRBODY as a “concilliatory” Black.

    Next question?

    O

    Like


  309. Obsidian,

    I am not black, but if my ancestors were treated like that – I would not play nice. That is for sure!

    Like


  310. on July 24, 2009 at 10:31 pm GNPs are for Apes

    1] Have your ancestors been sold as property in the last 400 years?

    Yep. Most countries had slavery during this time. Only 5% of black slaves from Africa came to what is now the US, you know. Most went to Brazil and the Caribbean.

    3] Ever had been a member of community that was targeted for public lynchings as late as the mid 1940s?

    Are you aware of Nazi Death Camps and the Japanese genocide against the Chinese in WW2? How about Saddam’s gassing of Kurds in the 1990s?

    4] Ever been denied service because if your skin color (until the late 1960s)

    The same applied to Hispanics, Asians, and Native Americans at that time. You don’t see them sulking about it to this day.

    5] Used as slave labor- first as slaves and then as prisoners? (read a little on the post civil-war south)

    Yep, see point 1)

    6] Consistently represented in the media as subhuman?

    I think you mean ‘Superhuman’. The media deification of Obama is far more than virtually any white person has received in our lifetimes. No white person with such a pathetic resume would ever become Senator, let alone President.

    7] Treated poorly because of what you are, not how you dress.

    Blacks are treated better than whites, in this regard.

    All your points show that blacks have not had it worse than any other race, on a worldwide level, and in modern times, actually have it better than whites.

    The proof lies in this simple fact :

    If America is so bad for blacks, why are NONE of them leaving to go to ANY other country in the world? Why is there, in fact, net migration INTO America of black people (from the West Indies, Africa, etc.)

    No blacks leaving, but a lot coming in. Yeah, America sure is bad for black people.

    Like


  311. Many of those same Whites will instinctively move into a corner of an elevator when a business casually-dressed young Black Man steps into said elevator,

    I ride elevators – and the metro – with business-dressed professional blacks every single day, and I treat them no differently from any other professional person. They set off no “instinctive” reaction, they do not alarm me.

    Whites overwhelmingly support their own,

    Actually, they don’t. Blacks would still be slaves if they did. Blacks would never, ever have obtained any freedom whatsoever, let alone the vast progress in civil rights since 1965, if they did. A great many whites today (the SWPL types) despise lower-class racist whites, or at least the whites the SWPL types think are racists. There is no quicker way to reduce your social status in polite white circles than to say something overtly racist.

    Can whitey have a little credit, please?

    Like


  312. — 1] Have your ancestors been sold as property in the last 400 years?

    Mine were targetwed for genocide in the last 70 years. My non-Jewish great grandmother was gassed in Majdanek.

    — 2] Ever read ‘Dread Vs Scott’ – the supreme court judgement?

    That’s the one non-bunnies & unicorns chapter of my high school history book, right?

    — 3] Ever had been a member of community that was targeted for public lynchings as late as the mid 1940s?

    My community is targeted for lynching today. In Knoxville and elsewhere

    — 4] Ever been denied service because if your skin color (until the late 1960s)

    I’ve seen lots of signs that say (paraphrasing) “white males need not apply.”

    — 5] Used as slave labor- first as slaves and then as prisoners? (read a little on the post civil-war south)

    See item 1. Also my wife’s still-living immediate relative worked as slave labor in Germany.

    — 6] Consistently represented in the media as subhuman?

    See a Taco Bell commercial lately?

    — 7] Treated poorly because of what you are, not how you dress.

    I try to avoid getting a flat tire in Southeast DC.

    Like


  313. I answer your strawman question, Apeman:

    Because Black folks marched, and prayed, and shed blood for this country, to make it a better place, and other Blacks around the world want in on that. Simple.

    Listen, Apeman-I know it deeply bothers you that so many Black folks support Obama. But that’s just the way it is, my friend. Now come on, lemme buy you a Coke…

    O

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  314. O,

    Black criminals are extremely dangerous to approach.

    How many times have you read stories wherein the violence put upon their victim was just senseless and extreme?

    Like shooting some guy who has no money to give when you rob them. They do that to send a message.

    Or killing a witness to a crime for $200?

    Or publicly threatening, in the courthouse, the entire jury, while you are on trial?

    Robbing a women and then just raping her because.

    Look how brutal O.J.’s killing of Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman were. Notice how blacks applauded his acquittal.

    Bashing white faces with cinder blocks (First Rodney King trial) and pool cues (I think H. Rap Brown was speaking in town and the blacks were agitated).

    Throwing a baby out the window of a car you hijacked, or dragging her mother to death when she gets her clothes caught in the car door.

    Black males are big and muscular and very dangerous. My daughter’s ex-boyfriend had permanent and serious injuries because, as a male nurse, he tried to protect a female nurse from a black male patient who turned violent in the ER (cocaine.) How you would like confronting a cocaine enraged and homicidal 6 foot 4 black male, 280 pounds, just out of prison wherein he spent his time lifting weights? If you didn’t kill him, he would certainly try to kill you, for absolutely no reason, and he could kill you with his bare hands.

    In the ER’s in Baltimore, the first thing they do when they bring in shooting victim is have the police guard the doors because the shooters will follow him into the ER to finish him off and anybody else in their way.

    How about in Baltimore when a cop stopped two blacks in a car for a routine matter, walked up to the car, and got shot once or twice in the chest by the black passenger. Turned out the car had been stolen, but who but a black thief would think killing the cop, in broad daylight, was a good career move? (Cop survived and arrested them. He had a bullet proof vest.)

    God, sometimes these thugs shoot it out with the cops in broad day light. This never ends good for them.

    These guys think they are some tough criminals, but their actions are so dumb and violent they mostly wind up in jail, but not before they hurt or kill somebody, often a number of somebodies.

    That is the reality of life here in Baltimore. I am amazed that white guys will go into a police force wherein they have to confront and control such dangerous thugs on a daily basis. Those guys have balls.

    So, the elephant in the room with all this racial profiling complaining is that black males deserve to be profiled.

    Now, what about Gates? If you were investigating a house break in and there were two black men in the house when you get there and the door busted open, what would you think? How many blacks live in this neighborhood? If Gates had been a robber, and being black, you would have to assume he would just shoot the cop when he came to the door. I think Gates is lucky to be alive.

    Like


  315. on July 24, 2009 at 10:37 pm GNPs are for Apes

    Whites overwhelmingly support their own,

    Wrong. Apparently you didn’t notice that John McCain did not get 97% of the white vote, the way Borat Hussein Osama got 97% of the black vote.

    Do you actually understand numbers? Surely your school taught math, when you were a kid.

    guess who got the lion’s share of NYC’s White-including Italian-vote? Yup, you guessed it, NOT Dinkins-who was seen by ERRBODY as a “concilliatory” Black.

    Source, please. Far more whites voted for Dinkins than blacks voted for Rudy.

    You are being incredibly, incredibly dishonest here. The victim card is lucrative, and you are identical to the most strident feminist. Some introspection will do you good.

    and POTUS, ITS THE FIRST TIME IN USA HISTORY THAT THIS HAS HAPPENED.

    Wrong again. Thurgood Marshall was there on the SC since the 60s. Other black mayors and congressmen have also been there since the 60s.

    Actually, Warren G. Harding was black, as per the one-drop rule. Why not count him too, when Obama, who is just 50% black, can be worshipped by the race-obsessed black community?

    Like


  316. As I argued before, white Americans have a very finely tuned thug-dar. We IMMEDIATELY assess a black guy for potential trouble. And we rate close to 99% of non-ghetto blacks as completely harmless.

    Translation: You have a finely tuned thug-dar. You immediately assess a black guy for potential trouble. And you rate close to 99% of non-ghetto blacks as completely harmless.

    You seem highly intelligent and perceptive, but the average person is not. My experience is that the average person’s stereotyping is often quite crude.

    Like


  317. GNPs are for Apes,

    I do not think you realize it, but the ‘time’ for your kind is up. The future, even the near future, has many unpleasant surprises for your kind and their beliefs.

    Do you think that your “system” has any gas left? It has been running on fumes since the 1980s. I think you should be more concerned about how your system will exist in a few years… hint- it cannot exist in any form similar to the current one.

    Hope that your kind don’t end on reservations. They are not going anywhere, but you are certainly looking at a very dark future.. pun intended.

    “If America is so bad for blacks, why are NONE of them leaving to go to ANY other country in the world?”

    Like


  318. Tarl,
    I was speaking in electoral politics terms-Whites tend to vote White, for the most part. Sure, Whites have and probably will continue to vote for Non-White candidates, but you can’t tell me that in cases like Daly of Chitown, or Rudy of NYC, that White folks didn’t vote at least in part based on what they perceived as these Men sharing their interests w/them over the other candidates-and you know what? I’m completely cool with that.

    That’s what politics and the vote is all about-choosing your guy or gal who you thinks will most lookout for your interests. That’s it.

    O

    Like


  319. — 1] Have your ancestors been sold as property in the last 400 years?

    Well, there was a very active slave trade for white Christians and Black animists during the entire era of Muslim domination, since Muslims cannot make slaves of Muslims. Slave ships went as far North as Ireland. Cervantes, for example, spent time as a slave in North Africa. The Ottoman Empire (The Turks), of course, used Christian slaves (taken from Greece and Eastern Europe) to make up their army.

    Slavery is as old as civilization, and it continues still in, gasp, Africa.

    Like


  320. @gig-
    Not that you give a damn, but I have no beef with any man’s religion.

    It is only when someone uses religion as an excuse to harm someone else, that I oppose it.

    Jew, christian, muslim, buddhist, atheist… These are terms some people use to divide us.

    I am much more interested in uniting men.

    If I could initiate a pogrom, it would be against ’empowered’ women and the suck-ass politicians who enable them.

    Religion and race, for me, are not accurate indicators of who I should hate.

    @Obsidian-
    Man I want to be with you, but I think you are guilty of doing the same things that you decry in others:

    “You Conservatives, the White ones I mean, just don’t get it, do you?”

    Don’t fall into the trap of dividing men based on the pigmentation of their skin, like some of the HBD advocates do.

    It’s wrong when they do it, it’s wrong when you do it. (If you want me to call out some asshole that uses HBD to demean black people, just point me in the right direction.)

    There is NO VALUE in calibrating your behavior towards a man based on some arbitrary physical characteristic. (skin color, eye color, ear shape, it is irrelevant)

    All real men, must unite.

    That we are divided is really the only thing keeping us from correcting the malfunctions, that we all agree, beset our culture and our country.

    Like


  321. @Thursday:

    I don’t think most people’s steotyping of blacks are crude. As a woman who is half-brown, I have no problem with most middle to upper-middle class blacks, whites, Indians, Asians, Hispanics, etc. When I do get intimidated it’s because of a general manner of behaviour: dress, posturing, crassness, etc. It’s pretty much grouping people of low-income together, as opposed to people of average to high-come, not a matter of race. A black man who is dressed in a golf shirt and slacks is NOT intimidating, except to maybe people of another generation. My boyfriend’s 80-something grandmother calls me an “Indian beauty” and even though this is probably perceived as exoticization by some, I find it harmless because I understand where it comes from generationally.

    Like


  322. on July 24, 2009 at 10:45 pm GNPs are for Apes

    I was speaking in electoral politics terms-Whites tend to vote White, for the most part.

    Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.

    What percentage of whites voted for Obama vs. blacks voting for McCain?

    I demand you do the research and provide the answer, Obsidian. Be a man, and provide the actual percentages.

    Plus, black conservatives (Rice, Thomas, Blackwell, Steele) are supported more by whites than by blacks. You are too much of a dishonest coward to admit this.

    But provide the ACTUAL PERCENTAGES from the 2008 Presidential election. Show us that you have some respect to statistical facts.

    Like


  323. Apeman, your moving the goalposts again, as is your way to do. I said how many Black US Senators, Governors and Presidents have there been since the end of the Civil War? You answer me that and I’ll answer your questions.

    O

    Like


  324. 1] Have your ancestors been sold as property in the last 400 years?

    My great-grandparents were indentured servants. My grandparents worked hard to build a life for themselves and to educate their children (my aunts, uncles, and own parents). My parents both have university degrees and lead an upper-middle class life today. Getting trapped in a narrativeof victimhood is no excuse. And in fact, is more belittling than otherwise.

    Like


  325. Well that wasn’t hard:

    Joel-
    “Black criminals are extremely dangerous to approach.”

    No more dangerous than white criminals, or asian criminals, or American Indian criminals.

    I’d much rather share a cell with O.J. than Dennis Rader.

    Like


  326. Apeman,
    I don’t recall ever arguing the contrary wrt Rice, Thomas, Sowell, etc. Yet another strawman, lol. Black folk don’t like these people, for the simple reason that they see them as antithetical to their interests and what’s more, as sellouts. Period.

    As for the last election, yup, Obama got a lot of White votes. But this is the first time a Black candidate had a real shot at winning. Prior to that, White folks weren’t seriously considering a Black candidate, which don’t bother me one bit. Why you’re getting so huffy and puffy about the matter is at turns fascinating and puzzling to me.

    O

    Like


  327. Sucking white dick again? Can you not find a less pathetic way to identify yourself as an honorary white?

    “Getting trapped in a narrativeof victimhood is no excuse. And in fact, is more belittling than otherwise.”

    Like


  328. @Lucifer:

    I’m not. I don’t even identify as white, because when people see me they don’t see someone who’s white. My great-grandparents on my Indian side were indentured servants.

    Like


  329. AJ,
    My point was that often, the GOP doesn’t consider the bigger picture here. There are many Blacks who really don’t agree w/the Dems when pressed to actually think about their positions, but the GOP is basically tonedeaf when it comes to these things. And they’re in real trouble because of it too-on the one hand they can’t reach out and get fresh blood, and on the other they’re increasingly being seen as the Party of Disaffected Angry Old(er) White Guys. They need to get serious about making the case for Conservative values/ideas to ALL Americans.

    That’s all I’m sayin. And thanks for the help on the HBD thing.

    O

    Like


  330. And the hits just keep on coming:

    Joel-
    “Black males are big and muscular and very dangerous.”

    Did you really just type that.

    Come on man.

    The physicality of the black man is as varied as that of any other race.

    Some are bigger than you, some are smaller.

    It’s statements like this, that encourage people like Gates make their stupid statements.

    Sorry Joel, you are just going to have to get over your irrational fear of dark skin pigmentation.

    Like


  331. on July 24, 2009 at 11:05 pm mandy been here a while

    I found it Seeking Alpha.

    Earl Raab said:”
    The Census Bureau has just reported that about half of the American population will soon be non-white or non-European. And they will all be American citizens. We have tipped beyond the point where a Nazi-Aryan party will be able to prevail in this country.

    We have been nourishing the American climate of opposition to ethnic bigotry for about half a century. That climate has not yet been perfected, but the heterogeneous nature of our population tends to make it irreversible and makes our constitutional constraints against bigotry more practical than ever. [890]”

    I stand corrected that he was a rabbi, though. Apparently he wasn’t

    Obsidian

    Whites do not support their own. We have longstanding cultural war:

    “Set aside any considerations of fairness here and focus on the practical. The Puritans (comprised mostly of descendants of the Danish, Saxon, and Jute invaders who settled in Eastern and Northern England circa 800 AD) arrived in North America and defeated the Indians. Shortly thereafter (once it was safe) younger sons of the English gentry (descended mostly from germanic tribes who settled in Southern England circa 400 AD) began to arrive to take advantage of new economic opportunities.

    Immediately, these more recent arrivals (mostly Episcopalians) set out to take political power from the descendants of the original Puritan settlers. They fixed upon the witch trials (curious events that sprang up all over Europe, spread to North America, but lasted only a few months) as evidence that these original settlers were unfit to govern and lead the nation.

    Much of what passes for 19th century American literature drives home this message. “The Scarlet Letter” is a classic example of an American novel with a political purpose. A wide audience of Anglo-Saxon liberals bought both the novel and its purpose.

    “Bigotry” and “intolerance” were code words invented by newly arriving Anglo-Saxons for the purpose of controlling the descendants of earlier Puritan and Celtic (Scotch-Irish) immigrants (many of whom settled in the South). Controlling these lesser “Anglo-Saxons” was a far more important task than maintaining dominance over blacks or Jews.

    In fact, one of the major amusements of these Anglo-Saxon liberals was the degradation of the lesser whites by forcing them to submit to minorities of color during the period of Reconstruction and in the quota era (known as the “civil rights” era) that began 100 years later.”

    Like


  332. you can’t tell me that in cases like Daly of Chitown, or Rudy of NYC, that White folks didn’t vote at least in part based on what they perceived as these Men sharing their interests w/them over the other candidates-and you know what? I’m completely cool with that.

    Nah. I think most people vote party and ideology, not race. That’s why I don’t understand why there aren’t more black politicians who run as Republicans. There are tons of whites who’ll pull the lever for anyone with an R next to his name.

    Last election, whites around here (northern VA) were bending over backwards to “vote against their interests” – how do you explain that? Obviously, Obama could never have been elected without lots of whites who “betrayed their race”, right? My explanation for that is that whites do not, in fact, vote for the candidate who “shares their racial interest”.

    Like


  333. Obsidian-
    Agreed, the GOP has it’s head way up it’s ass. They are no better than the Dems in terms of wanting to divide us.

    They are just far less effective in doing so.

    @Lucifer-
    Did you stop your meds?. Maybe you and Joel can sit down over a cup of coffee and work out your issues.

    Like


  334. Tarl,
    Big city politics has always been about competing ethnic groups fighting for the spoils. Here in Philly, you had Italians duking it out w/the Irish, the two largest White ethnic groups in the city historically. And both got to be Mayor in recent history-Green, then Rizzo.

    And then came along Goode when Blacks were able to really start flexing their collective political muscle.

    That’s just the way of big city politics in America, Tarl. Black folk didn’t create the system, they just learned how to play it-and as is often the case, do it better than many White guys.

    O

    Like


  335. ”””””””””’Lucifer
    I_Affe,

    The vast majority of people on this blog want to

    1] Live in a dreamland where white is right and in control.

    2] They are the accepted leaders.

    3] After 1] and 2], maintain status quo till the end of time.

    Not unlike a kid who wants unlimited icecream, victory in every game and perpetual control over the world.

    Sadly, they mistook the status of whites from 1850-1950 as manifest destiny. The emerging reality troubles them, and frankly- I do not care.

    It is fun to watch though…”””””””””””

    Well whites will be the first to achieve perfect war.
    Yet yea they will probably show mercy.
    Then the next one to achieve it won’t

    Like


  336. on July 24, 2009 at 11:25 pm Seeking Alpha

    Glad to see we’re still hammering away at all hours here at Roissy.

    What have I missed?

    Roissy was still tossing around traitor. It’s nice to get attention from our host, although I wonder if he isn’t just a touch too sensitive on the traitor issue.

    I will spawn six Republicans like myself (and a converted wife) who will vote for lower taxes and smaller government – even if we don’t believe in their immigration policy – and contribute mightily to both total and per capita GDP.

    Roissy will leech off the hard work of his fellow countrymen, exclaiming the entire time that he is on the side of Western Civilization while taking no real world actions of his own to stem its decline.

    What else did I miss

    I believe the Polish PA was talking about creamy skin, nordic grace and blue eyes. I am 50% all three. Italian immigrants are none of the three and his ancestors are Slavs.

    Sadly that means my children – while only possessing those qualities in a quarter of their blood – will still be more like ‘white American teens’ than PAs coming child or Roissys (likely never coming) child.

    Is that self-hatred or just a poorly framed argument on their part?

    Like


  337. on July 24, 2009 at 11:29 pm GNPs are for Apes

    I said how many Black US Senators, Governors and Presidents have there been since the end of the Civil War?

    Quite a few. Probably a greater proportion, population adjusted, than Hispanic or Asians.

    In recent years, black politicans of note have been:

    Lynn Swann, Kenneth Blackwell, Michael Steele, JC Watts, David Paterson, Deval Ptrick, Carol Moseley Braun, Roland Burris, Harold Ford Jr, Willie Brown, Michael White (mayor of Cleveland), David Dinkins, Maxine Waters, John Conyers, Charlie Rangel, William (freezer) Jefferson, etc.

    The Supreme Court has always had 11% black representation for the past 42 years.

    So there are clearly far more black elected officials, than Hispanics or Asians, adjusting for population. So blacks are clearly over-represented relative to Hispanics and Asians. You should be striving to increase Hispanic and Asian representation, by that logic.

    If your point is that blacks were underrepresented before 1970, but now well represented, we can agree. So then quit whining, as full representation was acheived 40 years ago. Every complaint you have is 40 years obsolete.

    OK, I answered your question. Now go do the homework of providing the percentages I requested. It should only take a few minutes.

    Like


  338. SA don’t be an obtuse idiot. Italians are white while aboriginal 88 IQ non-European people you think will be a fine replacement for white teens in a traditionally white country are not.

    Like


  339. on July 24, 2009 at 11:35 pm GNPs are for Apes

    Lucifer,

    You are clearly extremely low IQ. I demolished each one of your uneducated points, and you were left stumped and stunned. You’ve got nothing.

    Simple question, which you are too much of a coward to answer :

    “If America is so bad for blacks, why are NONE of them leaving to go to ANY other country in the world?”

    Because in America, blacks have it far, far too good. That’s way?

    Like


  340. What’s surreal is that I’m trying to make a case to a Population Replacement profiteer for not being ethnically cleansed from my own country.

    Like


  341. on July 24, 2009 at 11:41 pm GNPs are for Apes

    Tarl,

    My explanation for that is that whites do not, in fact, vote for the candidate who “shares their racial interest”.

    Yep. This is what Obese-dian cannot admit. It drives him nuts that whites are not as race obsessed as blacks are.

    Now let’s see if he can do the research on electoral percentages that he agreed to do.

    Like


  342. on July 24, 2009 at 11:42 pm Seeking Alpha

    SA don’t be an obtuse idiot.

    I’m not being obtuse. My goal is to show how difficult it is to couch your goals in racial terms.

    What did you mean by creamy skin and blue eyes that somehow included an Italian? Did you not mean to be so specific?

    Like


  343. Big city politics has always been about competing ethnic groups fighting for the spoils… That’s just the way of big city politics in America, Tarl.

    I believe the point of this discussion is that whitey is not “acting ethnic”, i.e. voting his skin color, and in fact black success in most US cities and states results from white voters voting for blacks in significant numbers.

    Like


  344. You are being an obtuse jerkoff. Do you have a problem with Nordic-looking people? (I’m dark-featured by the way, not blonde).

    Your idiotic comment earlier was that brown immigrants will make a fine replacement for white teenagers. I called your bullshit by using a Nordic ‘exteme’ of the European phenotype as an example of something non-Europeans will never be.

    It is no more difficult to argue for the preservation of one’s country in racial terms than it is to argue for not replacing your mother or your sister with strangers.

    Like


  345. mandy been here a while

    Go back and read your T.R.Fehrenbach. Check out the latest , recent edition of “Lone Star.”
    It is quite true that the Scots-Irish white-trash border scum did most of the heavy lifting in the time of western expansion. Most of the time their gains were eventually co-opted or finessed by the better born , more gentile folk with Anglican pedigrees.
    Except in Texas. The Texas Revolution – from the bloody Alamo to the bloody San Jacinto – still stands as a singular exception to that melancholy pattern. The red haired blue eyed freaks for once won a war and a country.
    In the late 1930s the legislature of the State of Texas passed a resolution informing Charles Limberg that he was no longer welcome in that state because of his anti-semitic and anti-American statements.
    There is a lot to contemplate here.

    Like


  346. Chuck:

    “Fuck, I don’t know how to make it any clearer than that – there’s a fundamental human right to not be arrested by your government unless you’re harming someone else.”
    —Chuck, don’t start talking about fundamental rights. They don’t exist.

    Rights don’t come from anywhere but the government under which you live. There is no “fundamental right” outside of that, because, for a right to exist, it must be protected by the government. No government to protect a right, no right exists.

    Appeals to natural law fail (natural law being where most “fundamental rights” arguments come from) because they are 1) too intellectual unrigorous and 2) require religious belief to soem degree.

    This, of course, runs counter to our own founding fathers view—they basically declared that the reason they could secede from England was because George III violated natural rights (granted by God). But a better argument might be efficiency—George III’s actions punished the colonies for the homeland, discencentivizing production and development, and artificially kept the colonies economically subserviant to the homeland.

    Be that as it may, there is nothing in the U.S. Constitution that states you have a fundamental right to not be arrested for not “harming” someone else. Heck, people who harm animals and cut down trees illegally face jail time, and people are arrested for speeding when they haven’t hit anyone. Shouting in public like a maniac hurts people with noise pollution and fear, two destructive elements, although the harm is generalized to a degree.

    You don’t have a fundamental right to anything, Chuck. You only have the rights enumerated in the Constitution (and various state constitutions). if you want more, get an amendment passed. otherwise, you’re just using rhetoric in place of logic.

    Like


  347. on July 25, 2009 at 12:05 am Seeking Alpha

    Of course I don’t have a problem with them. I’m Nordic looking myself.

    was that brown immigrants will make a fine replacement for white teenagers

    You’re getting angry and its clouding your reasoning. I never said that.

    What are the two effects of immigration? Economic and cultural. If Hispanic teenagers are just like Italian teenagers or Polish teenagers in behavior and values then there is no CULTURAL difference.

    There will be a racial difference.

    Like there was when the English forefathers let my Irish and German ancestors in. And like there was when Irish and German ancestors let your Slavic ancestors in.

    All I’m saying is that if we’re going to get racial (not cultural, but racial), let’s at least be honestly racial.

    Maybe Slav > Hispanic. But Noridc > Slav. There isn’t a ‘white’ race. There’s a Nordic race, and its bastard children the Slavs, the Mediterraneans, and many others.

    Like


  348. So your type is gonna go extinct soon?

    “Of course I don’t have a problem with them. I’m Nordic looking myself.”

    Like


  349. on July 25, 2009 at 12:21 am GNPs are for Apes

    Crickets chirping as Obese-dian, who is normally very active at this hour, refuses to provide the easily-Googled data that would disprove his absurd claims.

    Come on, boy, we are waiting…..

    Like


  350. GNPs are for Apes,

    You will have to learn the hard way.. but I am enjoying the show.

    Like


  351. Yea shit is funny ain’t it lucifer.

    Like


  352. You still do not get it… do you?

    Blacks have been the only group to experience it ALL, and in living memory.

    Your type is on decline.. that is why you are screwed.

    Whites made too many enemies (pretty much everyone wants your kind six feet under).. and have no advantage.

    “I demolished each one of your uneducated points, and you were left stumped and stunned.”

    Like


  353. on July 25, 2009 at 12:28 am Seeking Alpha

    Lucifer

    So who will the elite be in 50 years?

    Like


  354. Gunslingergregi,

    Whites built a self-delusionary myth around their luck.. reality moved on.

    They mistook winds of luck as evidence of their control over the weather. The winds have changed, and their ship is taking water. The problem is that nobody is gonna help them now.

    Power built on “might is right” always ends this way… always has.

    Like


  355. on July 25, 2009 at 12:32 am mandy been here a while

    Thank you Rum. I will have to check that out.

    Seeking alpha your statements on the non existence of a European white race are absurd. Didn’t this Gates incident illuminate the fact that even non whites recognize people as belonging to the white race.

    It really has nothing to do with being better than other ethnicities. It is about preserving one’s people. I know that Jews understand preserving the Jewish people. Why can’t we be left alone to preserve our people, too?

    Like


  356. on July 25, 2009 at 12:32 am Seeking Alpha

    Whites built a self-delusionary myth around their luck.. reality moved on.

    They mistook winds of luck as evidence of their control over the weather. The winds have changed, and their ship is taking water. The problem is that nobody is gonna help them now.

    Power built on “might is right” always ends this way… always has.

    Lucifer, that’s your constant meme here. So who replaces them? Show some critical reasoning. It will be an essential skill for your future on top.

    Like


  357. Well they could exterminate
    the planet
    but they more than
    likely won’t
    someone else will
    circle of life I suppose.

    Like


  358. Seeking Alpha,

    Won’t be whites.. that is for sure.

    Your best hope = inter-racials.

    Your most likely fate = irrelevance

    Worst fate = extinction

    Like


  359. on July 25, 2009 at 12:34 am GNPs are for Apes

    Loserfer,

    Both PA and I answered your questions with facts and logic (which you don’t have much experience with).

    My demolition of your questions is here. Read it and weep.

    You have been dealt utter humilation, by people who actually know about the world. And you know it.

    Like


  360. Seeking Alpha,

    At this stage demography is enough..

    Like


  361. ””””””””””Lucifer
    Gunslingergregi,

    Whites built a self-delusionary myth around their luck.. reality moved on.

    They mistook winds of luck as evidence of their control over the weather. The winds have changed, and their ship is taking water. The problem is that nobody is gonna help them now.

    Power built on “might is right” always ends this way… always has.”””””””””””””””””””

    will not be that way in perfect war
    because might will have total victory
    there will be no weak to become strong
    there will only be the strong

    Like


  362. Gunslingergregi,

    Ever seen the animatrix?

    Like


  363. on July 25, 2009 at 12:36 am mandy been here a while

    Lucifer

    “They mistook winds of luck as evidence of their control over the weather. The winds have changed, and their ship is taking water. The problem is that nobody is gonna help them now.

    we know. Guess 600,000 dead white men in the civil war

    Like


  364. on July 25, 2009 at 12:37 am Seeking Alpha

    Seeking alpha your statements on the non existence of a European white race are absurd.

    150 years ago, an Englishmen would be offended to think a Sicilian or a German belonged to the same race.

    Why can’t we be left alone to preserve our people, too?

    Who is we? Race isn’t what you identify as. It’s a real, historical, scientifically categorized fact. And there is no scientific definition of ‘white’.

    Who do you include? Germans? Spaniards? Basques? Italians? Sicilians? Greeks? Turks? Armenians? Poles? Russians? Georgians? Swedes?

    These are not all one race.

    Like


  365. Gunslingergregi,

    Development and spread of weapon technology + demography make that scenario unlikely.

    Like


  366. on July 25, 2009 at 12:39 am Seeking Alpha

    Lucifer

    Won’t be whites.. that is for sure.

    Your best hope = inter-racials.

    Your most likely fate = irrelevance

    Worst fate = extinction

    So your people aren’t intelligent enough to speak beyond vague platitudes? You can’t give a real answer? Or you don’t have one?

    Careful now. Once you’re in charge, you have to come up with real answers to the questions of the day. You can’t just spout nonsense attacking the status quo.

    Hamas learned that the hard way. As did Obama and Pelosi.

    Like


  367. GNPs are for Apes,

    Who is going to support your economic system (ponzi scheme).. think about that.

    That factor, by itself, is enough to screw the west for good.

    Like


  368. ? how so if us right now could take down nukes that other countries would launch they could exterminate the world.

    Like


  369. But you won’t be there, so it is irrelevant.

    “Once you’re in charge, you have to come up with real answers to the questions of the day. You can’t just spout nonsense attacking the status quo.”

    Like


  370. on July 25, 2009 at 12:42 am Robert in Arabia

    Having an affirmative action race hustler without a birth certificate is a blessing for the USA.

    Like


  371. Gunslingergregi,

    The strength of the west was it’s ability to innovate and an economic system that worked.. both competitive advantages are gone. Of course, people still think they exist..

    Even if we leave it alone, the beast will consume itself..

    Like


  372. Lucifer–

    Your type is on decline.. that is why you are screwed.

    Only due to altruism, greater than any other ethnicity’s, and sometimes/often now excessive. Competitive status jockeying altruism, of course.

    Like


  373. on July 25, 2009 at 12:44 am Seeking Alpha

    Okay, I’m sleepy. If my competition for the elite is Lucifer, I’m going to sleep peacefully. Physically fitter, mentally stronger.

    And pretty blue eyes to boot.

    Night all.

    Like


  374. Obsidian—

    Roissy for example is a stone’s throw away from the richest per capita Black area in the entire country, Prince George’s County, MD.

    I wonder why a suburb of Washington DC, the seat of our federal government, would be the richest per capita black area in the country. Truly puzzling. Could it have anything to do with the massive amounts of affirmative action plus that the feds have long practices, and imposed on feeder businesses? Could it have anything to do with relatively high level government employment dominating over private employment in the city to which many commute?

    Like


  375. on July 25, 2009 at 12:45 am Seeking Alpha

    I wonder why a suburb of Washington DC, the seat of our federal government, would be the richest per capita black area in the country. Truly puzzling

    BAM! I love it Doug.

    Like


  376. Obsidian—

    Whites do tend to support their own, but they do so less than any other racial group. As well Anglos do so less than any other white ethnic group. They should probably do so more in fact, until other groups lower their own ethnocentrism.

    Like


  377. Lucifer—

    I am not black, but if my ancestors were treated like that – I would not play nice. That is for sure!

    Then maybe, just maybe, you and yours in that case should be racially profiled up the yin yang.

    Like


  378. Seeking Alpha,

    I think we are looking at a changing balance of various groups, rather than one predominant one. The culture may be western, but the players might not look like you.

    Asian countries will be much larger players in the upcoming world. South america and Africa have potential, but they have to stop screwing themselves.

    Like


  379. on July 25, 2009 at 12:48 am mandy been here a while

    Seeking Alpha
    “Who do you include? ”

    I know a white person when I see them, no explanation about country of origin is needed.

    Don’t be ridiculous, Turks, Georgians , Armenians are not white but Kalashas and Chechens are.

    Like


  380. ”””””’doug1
    Lucifer–

    Your type is on decline.. that is why you are screwed.

    Only due to altruism, greater than any other ethnicity’s, and sometimes/often now excessive. Competitive status jockeying altruism, of course.
    ”””””””””””
    I agree but what was are savior will be our demise.

    Like


  381. doug1,

    Much of what you think as altruism, was originally meant to benefit the west- it just did not turn out as planned.

    Like


  382. doug1,

    There are more than a billion of us.. and we are not uneducated or religious nutters – if anything we are more secular than you.

    We are more than a match for you.. and we have the right demography. You do not.

    Like


  383. india ain’t taking it

    Like


  384. The decline of the west came through feminism induced demographic and social changes.. enjoy the ride.

    Like


  385. Lucifer—

    Sadly, they mistook the status of whites from 1850-1950 as manifest destiny. The emerging reality troubles them, and frankly- I do not care.

    You’re an arrogant bullshiiter. The Euro West has been leading and dominating since way, way before then, and continues to do so to this day. To the extent that it doesn’t quite as much as earlier, it’s largely due to great amounts of recent Euro altruism towards other weaker peoples. Sometimes excessive altruism, when they become threatening, yet it persists, for now.

    Further about six hundred years before the current Euro culture and peoples leadership and dominance began this go around, and for a thousand years before that, Greco Roman civilization intellectually lead (as in science, math and philosophy, and political philosophy and practice) and then ruled well over half the advanced world. Only China was at all competitive. Everywhere else lagged behind, especially places outside of the bordering Near East (i.e. Persia).

    A number of areas of the world have contributed greatly to the advance, with retreats, of world knowledge, civilization and wealth. It’s not remotely all been from Euro or white areas, and in large parts of post agricultural history other areas have lead. many areas of the world have never lead however or much influenced other areas.

    The industrial revolution, which not only occurred in Europe (specifically Britain and the Low countries) by far first, but was also long gestated there and nowhere else except by remote influences, was the engine that made so large a part of the world’s population rich. It began clearly by 1750 with some beginnings before. It’s twin roots were the development of large scale private capitalism, and systematic science and engineering, both thoroughly born in Europe. China did invent much, but it didn’t really do systematic science, or capitalism. It was too much an autocracy, or sometimes several of them.

    Like


  386. Gunslingergregi,

    the last person standing takes it.. do you get it.. the last person standing! It could be anybody

    Like


  387. Yea true whoever get the anti mis first along with will to do it.

    Like


  388. I’m not envisioning india though they have there own problems with gay guys beating up straights and shit lol

    Like


  389. doug1,

    The west went past the others as late as the 17th century.. and the real benefits of science came in the 1800s.. by the 1950s, technology had spread once again and the west lost it..

    Technology spread because of white greed and hubris,not altruism.

    Whites did not invent civilization.. you just picked up from where others left off.. and now we have picked up from where you have left off. Evolution in action!

    Like


  390. India is such a disorganized non linear mess before the Brits and before that the Muslims took over (well with some linear improvement nothing like after the Brits) that we’re only just recently piecing together decent histories of India, using almost entirely Western (British) methods.

    Rather a feminine, more conquored than conquoring civilization.

    But full of riches, spices, and textiles classically it’s true. And some great inventions, and maths.

    Like


  391. doug1,

    China, India, the pre-islamic ME, Persia were more than competitive. They just started believing their own bullshit and spent more time screwing each other, like you guys are doing now.

    Like


  392. Lucifer

    The west went past the others as late as the 17th century.. and the real benefits of science came in the 1800s.. by the 1950s, technology had spread once again and the west lost it..

    Your own idiosyncratic wishful thinking, Desi.

    Like


  393. What about western europe before the roman empire expansions?

    “India is such a disorganized non linear mess before the Brits”

    Like


  394. doug1,

    Who is going to pay the pensions and other entitlements of aging whites? their kids?

    Like


  395. Could make it a race I suppose

    he he he

    And people think our biggest problem is gloabal warming.

    ahahahaahhaahahahahahahha

    Like


  396. Wait, Lucifer is an Indian?

    My god, what a pathetic procession of the worst we have to offer comes over here.

    FeministX
    AuntiJi
    Desi FPUA
    and now Lucifer. Lucifer is the worst of all as he is supposedly a MAN (and I use that term loosely).

    What a pathetic piece of shit.

    Hey Lucifer, all of the Indians in positions of politican prominence in America (whether officeholders or authors) are Right Wing :

    Bobby Jindal
    Dinesh D’Souza
    Ramesh Ponnuru

    Indians are natural Republicans, you know (frugal, business oriented, socially conservative, study only economically viable subjects in college)

    Your white hatred as an extension of your anti-British bias is horrendously obsolete. Idi Amin kicked Indians out of Uganda (and even ate a few of them), you know.

    Indians flock to ALL Anglosphere nations in droves. The progress in India is due to Indians who are in these Anglosphere nations, sending money and expertise to India, NOT due to people within India.

    GNPs already took a good name by calling you Loserfer. I will have to be original and call you Lucy.

    Show some gratitude, Lucy.

    Like


  397. doug1,

    where are the new consumers going to come from? who is going to buy your stuff? and with what? and how are they going to get it?

    how are your pensions funds going to pay pensioners? who is going to buy your equities and bonds? how are you going to cash out? what is your new economic engine of growth? innovation? who are your technocrats going to be? can you make money on money (financialism) as a replacement for real growth? who is going to lend you money? how can your current corporate structures support big innovations?

    don’t you get it? you require us more than we require you (and we know that).

    Like


  398. Fact :

    India was 33% of the world economy in the year zero, bigger than the Roman Empire, and even as recently as 1820, was about 20%.

    But by the 1970s, India was just 1% of World GDP. This was far after the British left.

    Today, India has recovered to a better but still pathetic 2% of World GDP.

    There are lessons in the massive decline of India (and China, along a similar timeline) that America would do well to heed.

    Like


  399. Lucifer–

    Whites did not invent civilization.. you just picked up from where others left off.. and now we have picked up from where you have left off. Evolution in action!

    Of course they didn’t.

    Present and for awhile now knowledge tells us that the Mesopotamians (Iraqis) did followed by the Egyptians and Indus river civilizations — which may have been populated by a precursor group to the Davidians of mostly southern India.

    You do know who I am right? That I’m not a white nationalist? Nor PC either?

    Like


  400. Lucy wrote :

    don’t you get it? you require us more than we require you (and we know that).

    Yeah, that is why tons of Indians are on a 10-year waitlist for greencard to the US..

    This ignorant Lucy faggot’s opinions are not representative of the majority of Indians. This board does seem to find the worst possible Indians, though.

    Like


  401. But your kind is dying.. and I am enjoying the show.

    If you guys were more reasonable, we could have worked something out. But you guys want to be ‘top dog’.. I suggest you keep marching down that path, it will be a fun to watch.

    Like


  402. Tood–

    India was 33% of the world economy in the year zero, bigger than the Roman Empire, and even as recently as 1820, was about 20%.

    Where are you getting this?

    I’m not hostile to it but rather fascinated.

    I’ve for some while tried to find good web sources for world economic history, especially if done with maps and so on, but have had a hard time finding anything good going back to ancient periods.

    Like


  403. Tood,

    You still don’t get it. Your economic system was running on the fumes of ‘financialism’ since the 1980s. The last fumes are being consumed as we speak..

    But the engine requires gasoline to run. No working engine = no power.

    Like


  404. doug1,

    See ‘Economic Timeline for India’ on Wikipedia. The silk road, Columbus’ desire to find another path to India, etc. all tie in. The production of gold, gems, and textiles alone was more than the rest of the world put together.

    From 2000 BC to 1820 AD (3800+ years), India + China were 40-50% of the world’s economy.

    But by 1975, India + China was just 2%. Yes, 40% of the population was just 2% of 1970 World GDP.

    The British did take obscene amounts of wealth from India (hence Lucy’s white hatred), but they left India with even better tools to create new wealth (democracy, English language, Common Law system). It took 60 years for India to even begin to figure out that these were assets.

    Like


  405. Lucy,

    Mai tere se zyada hoshiyar houn, pagal.

    Your knowledge of economics is precisely zero. Millions of Indians are screaming to enter the US, and those that can’t get into the US, go to the UK, Canada, and Australia.

    Get an education, Moorkh.

    Like


  406. Ever looked at your demographic profile? revenue requires income.. income requires working people and jobs.

    never mind..

    “Yeah, that is why tons of Indians are on a 10-year waitlist for greencard to the US”

    Like


  407. Lucy,

    All of the Indians in positions of politican prominence in America (whether officeholders or authors) are Right Wing :

    Bobby Jindal
    Dinesh D’Souza
    Ramesh Ponnuru

    Indians are natural Republicans, you know (frugal, business oriented, socially conservative, study only economically viable subjects in college)

    Like


  408. Why does Lucy copy the sentence by someone who used that very sentence to outsmart him, as the closing sentence of his own post?

    I mean, each time, that sentence is specifically one that exposes YOUR stupidity.

    Not very intelligent, are you Lucy?

    Like


  409. Tood,

    Without new consumers, your ponzi scheme will collapse.

    Like


  410. Tood,

    North indians, have a big inferiority complex.. being gang raped for centuries by muslims and all

    Like


  411. Lucy,

    Wait, so you are a South Indian? One of the ugly ones, eh?

    Like


  412. Without new consumers, your ponzi scheme will collapse.

    ‘Your’?

    Kuch pagalpan Ghatane ka davai lo, ji.

    The funny thing is, even a post-collapse USA is still 20 times wealtheir than India.

    Like


  413. Tood,

    There is more genetic diversity in peninsular india than the north.. I know, you are disappointed…

    Having said that, I have always liked what I am.

    Many indians (especially north indians) want to show that they are proper whites born in a brown body.You want to be white… I just want to be ME.

    That is why you will always be a coolie.. you have chosen that path.

    Like


  414. Tood,

    Are you not assuming that the US and the west will still be functional societies, post-collapse? I doubt it..

    Like


  415. Tood,

    Are you not assuming that the US + west will still be functional societies?

    Wealth is dependent on the ability to maintain a functional society. Think about why I am saying that..

    Like


  416. There is more genetic diversity in peninsular india than the north..

    Of course, because South India is more primitive (and Madrasi people are ugly).

    Having said that, I have always liked what I am.

    Yeah, right.

    Are you not assuming that the US and the west will still be functional societies, post-collapse?

    India, at this moment, is itself not a functioning society. 40% of Indians do not literacy, clean water, or electricity.

    America has never, ever, been is such a shitty shape. Show the proper respect, you ugly Madrasi.

    Like


  417. Tood,

    Do you even know the difference between ‘wealth’ and ‘money’?

    Like


  418. Tood,

    You are assuming that the west is resilient. You will be surprised..

    I am guessing that you are the requisite brown cock-sucker to fluff your white “friends”? I have always wondered.. how can you guys live with your “gungadin” status? Do you hate yourself that much?

    Like


  419. Do you even know the difference between ‘wealth’ and ‘money’?

    Do you know the difference between dick and pussy? I didn’t think so.

    Like


  420. I have always wondered.. how can you guys live with your “gungadin” status?

    Again, more projection from a self-loathing Madrasi.

    Do you say ‘Yand’ and ‘Yalso’ for ‘and’ and ‘also’? Do you say ‘Aiyo’ at the end of each sentence?

    And why are Madrasi women so ugly?

    Like


  421. Lucifer, you need to stop. Your arguments are incoherent, and strung together poorly. They don’t follow logically. Everything Tood is saying is 100% correct. For the sake of everyone here, STOP.

    Like


  422. S.,

    I do not care about what you think.. and neither does anyone else.

    That is the longest answer you deserve.

    Like


  423. Tood,

    Do you really believe that sucking white dicks is a guaranteed path to success?

    What happens when you realize that your “gods” are impotent mortals?

    Like


  424. Lucifer:

    You are a Class A tool. Anyone that disagrees with you sucks white dick? The sad fact is, all you did was hammer off poorly thought-out conjecture, without substantiating it in any meaningful sense. Everyone else that has responded to you i.e. Doug, Tood, Seeking Alpha, etc. has totally trumped whatever nonsense you’re spouting on about.

    The fact that all you could do was bar yourself from talking to me highlights the weaknesses in your own argument.

    Like


  425. S.,

    Sophism == BS

    Like


  426. There have been two Dark Ages, and three industrial revolutions, in world civilization history (Amerinds never did anything remotely interesting or useful or impactful on world history).

    The first revolution was the Bronze Age, around 3000 BC to 1100 BC. You saw the rise of many civilizations, the Egyptian (which may have been the oldest not the Mesopotamian), the Indus and Yellow River civilizations, Mesopotamia, the Hittites, Assyrians, Mycenae Greece and the Minoan civilizations. All came crashing down at around the same time, the Med based ones all ended with the predations of the “Sea Peoples” about whom nothing is known save the Egyptians who fled from the sea up the river Nile, with loss of literacy, cities, population, average height (indicator of nutrition), trade goods, and pretty much everything else. Only the Egyptians and Babylonians survived, the Indus and Yellow river civilizations in China ended also but not due to the Sea People.

    This was the first great Dark Age. Still mysterious. Civilizations recovered, the Persians conquered the weakened Egyptians in 500 BC or so and were conquered in turn by Alexander in the 300s. So began the Hellenistic Age, and then the Roman one.

    Rome was very, VERY big, and lasted a VERY long time, from around 300 AD in the West to about 400 AD, about 700 years. It lasted another 1400 years or so in the East, around 1700 years total with the Byzantines. Islamic civilizations conquered much of Central Asia (and were conquered and destroyed in turn by the Mongols who failed to take Western Europe), as well as most of India. Europe after the fall of Rome had the second Dark Age, which lasted about 600 years until the Crusades at which point Europe retook territory (southern Italy, Sicily, parts of southern France, Spain) slowly that had been conquered by the Muslims. But the European model that eventually crushed all others was very different from the models of China, India, and Islam.

    THEY were all the same model. The same big men the Egyptians, Phoenicians, Carthiginians, Myceanean and Minoan Greeks, Persians, Mongols, Babylonians, Assyrians, Late Roman Republic and Empire, Hittites, Indian and Chinese civilizations all had. A few big men, dominating almost absolutely, mobilizing vast slave armies with agricultural empires overawing everyone.

    This model can get VERY big. Ghengis Khan ruled from Poland to the shores of China, and south through present day Iraq and Pakistan and parts of Iran. His successors nearly conquered Japan. But it has had one constant recurring weakness. It’s like an egg. Crush the outside shell and there is nothing but yolk inside. Because the model works on the absolute submission of the masses to the few nobles and big Big Man.

    India, China, Russia, and Muslim nations today retain that flaw. India absent a few elite remains mostly illiterate and barbaric (suttee, thuggee, and other primitive, uncivilized, and revolting customs are common still). It’s a thin, coastal city crust on a people who have not changed in their caste-ridden ignorant stupidity since 3000 BC (and probably never will). China is no better, most Chinese can’t read, can’t speak a common language (regional dialects are basically mutually unitillegible, think French and Polish) and remain poor, illiterate, superstitious, prone to cults, and brutal, bloody revolts at the drop of a hat. When I was in China in the late 1990’s, I was told by GE folks that the people they were required to use in their plants from Central China had never seen a bathroom and kitchen, and preferred to do their business in the stairwells and prepare food in the bathrooms. They were all to a man and woman, illiterate.

    The Western Model has been superior since 1000 AD not because of technology invented there (Westerners borrowed most of it from China initially, but improved it constantly where China let it simply decay). Rather, it’s because Westerners solved the age old dilemma — how to mobilize resources and still keep social peace. It was done by slowly, gradually, neutralizing peasant revolts by the nuclear family, Western tribal Pagan “freeholder” autonomy mixed with Christian monogamy, and devolution of authority along with independent family businesses that harnessed a lot more power and wealth than the slave empires of old. City State Greece and the early Roman Republic came close to this, but lacked both Christian Monogamy and tribal pagan desires for “freeholding” as the glue.

    If the West is sick it’s because women’s desire for the Big Man left unchecked has destroyed the nuclear family, monogamy, and “freeholding” or the desire for relatively flat hierarchies. [It’s deeply offensive to Western men to see bowing and scraping, even more offensive to see their leaders kowtow to jumped up tribal syphillitic bandits like the Saudi King, as the non-American Obama does.]

    India and China are both failures because they can’t mobilize enough resources — they are still Big Man and nobility and slaves, the old model doomed to failure by foreign conquest or internal revolt of would-be Big Men. The West still can redeem itself though admittedly it is difficult. Nonetheless the core model has been proven to work, due to both superior resource mobilization and social peace. [The late Roman Republic and early Empire was an unmatched military power, but it’s power was often turned inward into brutal struggles for power. The West has since generally tried to avoid that by making it irrelevant, i.e. there is so much wealth away from being Big Man it’s really just a tiresome exercise that most would rather not do.]

    Like


  427. Seeking Alpha, there have been numerous studies done on the sexual behavior of Mexican-origin teens. City-Journal’s Heather McDonald has a bunch of data on that site, detailing the following:

    Second generation Mexican women have illegitimacy rates significantly higher (in the 40% range) than White peers adjusted for income.
    THIRD generation Mexican women have even HIGHER illegitimacy rates than their mothers (over 50%) and a much, MUCH higher level of teen births. Higher than their mother and of course White peers.

    So no, family values as understood by the White working/middle class are NOT the same across the Rio Grande. You can also see the divergence in volunteering (Volunteering in America has your stats, highest volunteering rate is in nearly all White Salt Lake City, Boise, and Portland, lowest is in LA and NYC). As well as SAT taking, AP classes and tests taken, and nearly every other aspect of culture.

    Mexicans rather unsurprisingly remain Mexican. Look at Nielsen’s site and see how Black and White viewership of the Top 20 TV shows WEEK AFTER WEEK remains virtually identical, but Mexican is nearly all Spanish Language. Mexican immigrants to the US, legal or not, remain MEXICAN.

    The eat Mexican food. They speak Spanish not English in the home. They believe themselves Mexican not American in loyalty and identity. The don’t like Whites (at all). Or America, much less the flag.

    Duh.

    Mexico is right next door, and Spanish language media locks Mexican origin immigrants generation after generation into non-Absorption. Its as if Ireland was right next to the US during the 19th Century, and Gaelic language newspapers were all over the place, along with Gaelic only business, neighborhoods, and politicians.

    [The only exception I can find is the casualty lists for Iraq and Afghanistan. Mexican origin Marines and Soldiers are the second highest component after White guys from the South, Mountain West, Midwest, and Pacific Coast. Mexican guys do love the Marines, the macho aspect of total discipline and aggression seems to suit them well. There are almost no Blacks among the casualty lists, at least not what I read in the local papers. Blacks don’t seem to be in combat units in large numbers. However, that being said, relatively few Mexican guys in proportion to their numbers enlist in the Military. You don’t see most guys in East LA, for example, being veterans, the way you would say in White Santa Monica in 1955.]

    Like


  428. @Lucifer:

    Please point out the sophistry in what I just said.

    Like


  429. whiskey,

    I find your ‘analysis’ amusing.. but all the sophism, word play and BBC-type historical ‘interpretations’ are not gonna save your ass.

    It is a prayer.. just a prayer. Compare your text to the catholic prayer for Exorcism.

    If your best answer to the now inevitable demise of the west is a prayer, you have a problem!

    PS- Ever considered writing for BBC documentaries celebrating the “achievements” of the west?

    Like


  430. Lucy,

    OK, let’s see if you can organize the voices in your vacant skull.

    Exactly what percentage with the GDP of the United States decline by, by which year. Since you think the West is on the ‘brink of collapse’, you should be able to put forth some numerical predictions of what will happen.

    A 25% decline by 2010? A 100% decline by 2012? What is it going to be?

    Like


  431. Tood,

    Systemic collapses are like multi-organ failures. The feedbacks from a partial failure in one part result in the worsening of another partial failure somewhere else.. and so on..

    GDP and currency values are meaningless, if your system has reached a level that:

    a] almost nobody believes in it.

    b] it does not work well enough to stop a deflationary spiral

    At this point, not even war can bring it back.. especially in today’s world.

    Like


  432. Lucy,

    You are being evasive. I want actual numbers from you.

    Otherwise, something concrete, like “50% of America’s population will not have enough food to eat” or something.”

    Put forth an actual, coherent, quantitative prediction.

    Like


  433. Interesting statement by Doug-
    “Obsidian—

    Whites do tend to support their own, but they do so less than any other racial group. As well Anglos do so less than any other white ethnic group. They should probably do so more in fact, until other groups lower their own ethnocentrism.”

    – But don’t you realize that whites have unspoken societal privileges, almost an indefinable advantage, that frees them from the burden of having to constantly uplift and support their own? There will always be a “chance” for them.

    Ever heard the Chris Rock joke, you tell a white child they can be what they want one day, and the child says, “Yeah, I know,” but not before Obama could a black parent look his kid in the face and say the same thing with confidence?

    Minorities must grab on to and run with the chances they are offered, which in this age are still too few.

    White privilege is real.

    Bringing up examples like PG County, MD and the select examples of black success through affirmative action, etc. does not show a real picture of the plight that black people suffer in this society.

    Minorities have no choice but to rally around their own, unlike whites who have the luxury to pick and choose their allegiances in a colorblind manner because they have inherent freedoms in our country.

    Like


  434. Lucy is that most sad and useless of creatures: a nerd with a low IQ.

    I now consider him a troll and will no longer reply to him. He is a duller version of TJF.

    Like


  435. White privilege is real.

    That white woman in Ohio who cleaned my hotel room is very privileged.

    allegiances in a colorblind manner because they have inherent freedoms in our country.

    Same old rotten loot-whitey narrative. Reframe: whites built this country and mostly due to the avarice of their capitalist classes, invited tons of non-whites here.

    Have some fucking class and gratitude for being allowed to be here, instead of bitching about white privilege.

    Like


  436. on July 25, 2009 at 10:05 am Kick a Bitch

    there is a word for people like Gates… it starts with an N and sounds like bigger

    Like


  437. @PA

    I think you need to reconsider who built this country. Without the hard work of non-whites, many famous structures and inventions would not be here now. This country was built on the backs of both whites and non-whites.

    Re: gratitude
    I am not sure if this was aimed at me, but my ancestors have lived in this country for several generations… perhaps before yours, who knows?

    And we are all immigrants here in one way or another.

    For those who are recent transplants to this amazing country, discussing the effects and / or lamenting white privilege is not mutually exclusive to having gratitude.

    Like


  438. Dreamer – are you white? if so, then you must re-educate yourself. You’ve swallowed all the hate and envy they’ve taught you in school.

    Are you non-white? then your attitude toward whites is dime-a-dozen and very ordinary.

    Like


  439. dreamer

    “Without the hard work of non-whites, many famous structures and inventions would not be here now.”

    interesting package deal. anyone thats not crippled or deformed can lay bricks–who conceived of the design? do some laborers share equal credit with the person who designed the Hoover Dam?

    as for the famous non-white non male-US “inventions”–please list them now. if you say peanut butter and white out i will never stop laughing

    Like


  440. lucifer: “I am not black, but if my ancestors were treated like that – I would not play nice. That is for sure!”

    It is rather shocking to read this from an Indian. The cast system in India is 2500 years old

    Like


  441. The “twice-born,” i.e., the three upper castes, account for less than 20% of the population. The Brahmins alone take 70% of government jobs.

    Ask yourself, how many south Indians belong to the untouchables? Lucifier, are you transporting your bitterness here?

    The anonymous above was Pupu.

    Like


  442. Whites did not invent civilization.. you just picked up from where others left off.. and now we have picked up from where you have left off. Evolution in action!

    whites have created civilizations that were superior to India and China since Greece. This is the third or fourth time I write this. I would rather live in greece, Rome or Bizantium, or Flanders or Lombardia than India or China at any given moment in the last 3 thousand years

    having said that, I concede that Indians are , together with the Japanese, the nicest and less troublesome folks in Asia. India specially has never evern invaded any other country. But Indians should beware. Their wise ancestors devised the caste system to put the shudras (i.e, NAMs) in their places. Once the C aste System goes down, and current Indians are working hard on that, Indians will face the reality of having 40% of the population composed by low IQ minorities.

    It will be a much more humane society than the caste system´s. But if blacks behave like they do in the US having suffered much less than the untouchables, I wonder how upper caste Indians will fare once the full scale of the untouchable resentment for 3000 years of opression are unleashed uppond them

    Like


  443. white people in this forum forget some hard truths.

    I consider people like Seeking Alpha the true American patriots in the sense that they are the upholders of the Constitution. Long time ago I commented in isteve that the American constitution, despite Roissy´s, PA´s, Doug´s opinions, actually supports free immigration because it denies two self evident truths the the whole world accepted at the time, and the Americans are trying to overturn in every single country on Earth

    those truths are:
    – blood based citizenship. An American should be the son of American parents
    – official religion. It couldn´t be generic as “Christianity”. It should be as specific as “Protestantism”.

    once you realize that the American constitution explicitly ignores those self evident truths and works reject them, you will see how anti-americanism is born and why it is a rational response of many honorable people everywhere

    American foreign policy, almost since its creation, has been directed to overturn those truths in every single country on Earth.

    Like


  444. The eat Mexican food. They speak Spanish not English in the home. They believe themselves Mexican not American in loyalty and identity. The don’t like Whites (at all)

    any kind of food beats American food
    spanish is charming. Spanish poetry anmd Spanish music beat the Anglo equivalents anytime

    a great deal of non-white resentment agaisnt whites is due to how non-whites perceive whites as more attractive. The non-white policy towards whites could be resumed as ” kill the males, share the females”

    Like


  445. Seeking Alpha said:

    >For illegal immigration:
    >
    >It’s not possible to deport them all. Let’s admit that
    > up front. Not even close.

    Bull…corn.

    Do the following and it will happen in a few years

    1) Pass a Federal law with matching annual appropriations for $10 billion in bounties for private citizens to hunt down, capture and deport illegals.

    2) Give private concerns to do RICO civil suits against employers using illegal labor on the grounds they are defrauding social security and committing identity theft.

    3) Allow private concerns to do public data mining to identify criminal identity theft and give them a share of any seized property and cash from operations reveled to Federal, state and local governments.

    The above done at once will both kill the market for illegal labor and create a domestic industry for enforcing immigration laws that can pay off politicians in Congress just like big business.

    Like


  446. “The eat Mexican food. They speak Spanish not English in the home. They believe themselves Mexican not American in loyalty and identity. The don’t like Whites (at all)”

    Though I am not Mexican, I can say that there is nothing wrong with speaking a different language at home than in school, at work, in public, etc. There is nothing wrong with eating different food. What the hell?

    Every new wave of immigrants was faced with this sort of short-sighted hatred. In the colonies, when a massive flood of German immigrants came, several English Americans (including Ben Franklin himself) feared that the Germans would not learn English and would change the colonies.

    in the late nineteenth century the same feelings were harbored towards Swedish immigrants, Italian immigrants, etc. (particularly Italian immigrants because they were Catholic and were generally darker than most English/German Americans)

    All these families spoke their native language within the four walls of their homes, but once they left them they adopted English.

    By the third generation the language was lost, although shattered remnants of it would remain in regional accents. (Most accents from the rustbelt originated from Scandinavian immigrants)

    I know that it’s somewhat different with Mexican immigrants, but do know that it’s not like that for everyone. Some “Mexican Americans” have been American longer than your family has. (They didn’t cross the border, the border crossed them). The more recent Mexican Americans haven’t been here long enough for a fourth/fifth generation to settle down and adopt pieces of American culture.

    Just sayin’.

    Like


  447. And what is American food anyway? McDonald’s?

    I’ll take arros con pollo or ropa vieja any day over that.

    Like


  448. ”””””’Pupu
    The “twice-born,” i.e., the three upper castes, account for less than 20% of the population. The Brahmins alone take 70% of government jobs.

    Ask yourself, how many south Indians belong to the untouchables? Lucifier, are you transporting your bitterness here?

    The anonymous above was Pupu.”””””””’

    Lucifer this is why indians aren’t going to be the ones I would venture to guess. They are being injected with the same shit. When the divorce laws hit india gonna be a bloodbath.

    @Tood
    You say nice things today but how many white males have you hired?

    he he he

    Like


  449. ”””””””gig
    The eat Mexican food. They speak Spanish not English in the home. They believe themselves Mexican not American in loyalty and identity. The don’t like Whites (at all)

    any kind of food beats American food
    spanish is charming. Spanish poetry anmd Spanish music beat the Anglo equivalents anytime

    a great deal of non-white resentment agaisnt whites is due to how non-whites perceive whites as more attractive. The non-white policy towards whites could be resumed as ” kill the males, share the females”””””””””

    I think you nailed some of it gig.

    Like


  450. Mandy XD–

    As I’ve said, and contrary to gil’s impression it would seem, I’m not at all opposed to legal immigration, and a good deal of it. I would like it to be more focused on skills and education and other proxies for IQ than it is.

    It’s mass low skilled illegal immigration I have a problem with for three reasons 1) it lowers wages now for our legal lower half and exacerbates our current high and rapidly rising unemployment problem; 2) it bodes ill for the future, given that most illegal immigrants, largely from the lower classes of Central America, do notably less well in schools than the national average such that they (actually all Hispanics) are given affirmative action, so it seems unwise to wink at huge numbers of such illegals remaining and continuing to come; and 3) cultural swamping in some places, such as California, the numbers have become so large and so rapid.

    I AM NOT opposed to the flavors of Hispanic culture in America, but in fact enjoy them.

    You asked what is American food anyway. American food is a tossed salad of the foods from many cultures and most Americans like it that way. Most NYers couldn’t really imagine it any other way. Nor I think most Dade county Florida residents.

    However Mandy let me ask you this: should immigrants or the children of immigrants get affirmative action?

    Should we allow into the country mass numbers of people from groups that our elites feel need affirmative action?

    Like


  451. Mandy! XD, you are a cuntrag. die.

    That said, those of you panicking over Mexicans not assimilating/hating us are incorrect. Most immigrants in America have grown up in ethnic areas where their native language was common; in some areas, it became the dominant language. But English had to be known for contact with the government, and thus assimilation began.

    Laurence Welk, the great band leader, spoke German as his first language, though he was born and raised in North Dakota. That’s because there were large German-immigrant populations there, and the relative isolation allowed them to speak it without much outsider interference. Hence Welk’s delightful German accent when he spoke English, his second language.

    But many of these German families served in WWI and II as translators and spies for the US. No loyalty for the Nazis there (see The Dirty Dozen for an example–Charles Bronson’s character).

    And to those of you who think “well, Mexico is our neighbor, so there are much closer ties than to places abroad” I point you to New England and give this evidence:

    Much of Vermont, Maine, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and New Hampshire experienced waves of French-Canadian immigration in the 19th and 20th century. In some parts of Vermont and New Hampshire, Quebecois was the native tongue, and Rhode Island used to have the largest Mardi Gras celebration outside of New Orleans, led by the Frenchies.

    The novelist Robert Cormier (of French-Canadian descent, but born in Massachusetts) set his novels in Massachusetts towns made up of the descendants of French-Canadians.

    Like the Mexicans, these immigrants came down for manual labor/factory jobs. Many felt they were only going to take the money and run back to Canada, depriving Americans of their fruits. Others feared French would replace English, or that they would not assimilate.

    Nope. the Frenchies stayed and were and have been loyal Americans to this day. And English is now dominant everywhere; recent immigrants speak the old tongue, but as we become connected, English replaced the old.

    Its rightful to kick out the illegals and keep jobs for Americans, if there aren’t enough for all (as in right now). Its especially right to kick out illegals who become criminals. But arguing they won’t assimilate is just counterfactual given our nation’s history.

    Like


  452. You still don’t get it, do you..

    I have no desire to prove anything to you. The course of events, on the other hand, have put your type on an entertaining trajectory.

    Hubris makes those afflicted by it hang themselves, and you guys are doing a fine job on that one. It is not about who is ‘right’, but about who is left standing.

    PS- Older immigrants and their kids might still want to suck up to you, and maybe you are expecting me to do that.. wishful thinking.

    Like


  453. on July 25, 2009 at 2:03 pm Comment_Whatever

    First of all, Henry Louis Gates Juniory has absolutely nothing at all to do with the typical problems whites have with blacks.

    His grievances are real, and quite frankly extreme actions against the doctor who crippled him would be morally right.

    Gates was born in Piedmont, West Virginia, to Pauline Augusta Coleman and Henry Louis Gates, Sr. At the age of 14, Gates was injured while playing touch football, fracturing the ball and socket joint of his hip, resulting in a slipped epiphysis.[2] The injury was misdiagnosed by a physician who told Gates’ mother that his problem was “psychosomatic”. When the physical damage finally healed, Gates’ right leg was left two inches shorter. Because of the injury, Gates uses a cane to help him walk.[3]

    But he was only crippled for life! ONLY CRIPPLED FOR LIFE!
    He needs to GET OVER IT! A positive attitude will allow him to walk like a normal human being and take away decades of suffering!

    And, to the best-health-care-in-the-world zombies that think this is rare, I actually talk to people, and doctors make these kinds of errors ALL THE TIME. I know someone crippled by those drooling ‘can’t see the shattered bone fragment’ hacks.

    Real ghetto black behavior is a lot more annoying.

    Read about the Jena Six. Bailey freely admits that when an evil whitey that was bigger than him punched him, Bailey’s ass couldn’t move fast enough to find a copper to punish that evil whitey. That’s the way they take care of business in the ‘hood. Then ‘the man’ OPPRESSED Bailey when he ‘punched'(that is savagely beat) whitey! ‘The man’ has got two standards! It was cruel of ‘the Man’ to make Bailey think he was on his side, and then to suddenly turn on Bailey without cause!

    Like


  454. Gunny,

    Terrific avatar!

    When reading your blog, Pupu was hit by an uncontrollable urge to calculate your profit. Good thing, someone gave Pupu a large piece of plum torte with fresh whip cream to come her urge down.

    Like


  455. *calm*

    Like


  456. @lurker:

    “The novelist Robert Cormier (of French-Canadian descent, but born in Massachusetts) set his novels in Massachusetts towns made up of the descendants of French-Canadians.”

    This was an excellent point. Another great novelist is Amy Tan, who often writes about what it’s like for Chinese immigrants (and children of these immigrants) living in America.
    All immigrants in America go through similar cycles, and they do eventually assimilate.

    And lurker, any insults you use on me will automatically ignored because I’m still busy laughing at how you caught an STI from that hooker you slept with.

    Like


  457. I was hoping you would pupu 🙂

    Like


  458. Now if lurker could make her fall in love and worship his cock that would be an accomplishment. he he he

    Like


  459. @gunslingerKAPOWKAPOW:

    Yeah, but instead he got STDs. Nothing special about that.

    They’re Kind of like the gift that keeps on giving, but I’d like to call them the itch that keeps on itching.

    Like


  460. ”””come her urge down.”””””’

    was that freudian he he he

    Like


  461. Well he did get it for free from a hooker so that counts but yea that burning sensation hopefully can be cured.

    Like


  462. @Gunslinger:

    I hope it can be cured because if it can’t I’m going to feel really, really terrible about laughing about it. Really terrible.

    And apologies don’t fix those kinds of things.

    Like


  463. Mandy! XD,

    You little devil!

    Before advancing to the next level, we should first acknowledge that Kapow is a Thai basil dish, and itchy bitchy is a spider story 🙂

    Like


  464. on July 25, 2009 at 3:14 pm Jack Burton

    Perhaps if I were smelly, ugly, stupid and had a small dick, I would be forced to resort to trolling on the internet for some meager semblance of social interaction, too.

    What I can’t explain is why the rest of you keep replying to this loser…

    Like


  465. Lurker,

    Don’t fright. But have it seen to as soon as possible… the itchy bitchy feeling could be all in your mind.

    Like


  466. Allright Jack we can fight

    Like


  467. That’s why jack now you figured it out. I am a man you are a pussy. That is why you get jack. Got it now. So if you can’t figure someone out or something it tends to mean you are not smart enough. If you can’t understand someone it means you are not as smart as they are. People that are smarter than you can understand you. Hope this helps you on your journey.

    Like


  468. HA!!!
    gig to mandy “do you cook?”
    LOL! brazilian guys…gotta lov’em!

    Like


  469. @ Dana

    as for the famous non-white non male-US “inventions”–please list them now. if you say peanut butter and white out i will never stop laughing

    Code Compiler
    Apgar scale
    Disposable syringes
    Home video surveillance
    Propellers for nuclear reactors
    Blood banks
    Traffic signals
    Gas masks
    Toggle-iron harpoon
    Disposable cell phones
    Windshield wipers
    Film processing
    Nystatin (antifungal antibiotic)
    Radium and X-rays
    Dishwashers
    Petroleum refining
    6-mercaptopurine
    Computerized telephone switching system
    Bra
    Vacuum-packed canning
    Grocery bags (paper)
    ScotchGuard
    Process to isolate the human stem cell
    Magnetic pulse transfer controlling device
    Optical method of cancer detection
    AIDS testing methods

    And that’s just in America.

    Look, I can appreciate — there are a lot of great inventions out there. But people who say that the only inventors out there are white males are just being deliberately naive. Please be aware that part of the reason US inventions, in general, make such news is that the US is a world power. Also, be aware that, without the work put in to make said inventions into reality, they’re really nothing at all — just abstract ideas that, well, don’t exist. And while you can laugh and say things like peanut-butter is not an invention of note, think of how many people in the US eat peanut butter as opposed to benefit directly from the Hoover dam.

    I’m not trying to hate — and, for the record, I’m very conservative when it comes to immigration ala doug1 (as far as I can see, I’ve only scanned the comments thus far) — but come on. Part of what makes America great — or, well, what made America great (not sure how long we’ll hold the title), is the mix of people. Because, from the Anglo-Saxon Puritans to the Chinese immigrants in California, these people were, well, if not the “best and the brightest,” people with a definite drive to succeed. That’s the kind of person who (used to) come to America — people who wanted something their respective old countries couldn’t give them. That something — rather, that drive for something — was what created such a strong foundation. Hmm. Basically, it was that everyone was fighting for these abstract notions — freedom, liberty, etc. — that made America a country where people wanted to be, as opposed to having been born into under whatever oppressive regime.

    Yes, the majority of inventors in the past, although not as much anymore, have been white males. But no invention comes directly from the genius brain of a single person (well, almost no). It’s absurd to say that the one person with the idea who cannot implement said idea has anything at all, and it’s especially absurd to qualify inventions as ‘better’ or ‘worse’ based on abstract reasoning. Would you say, for example, that the invention of the bra affects more of the population than does the Empire State Building? (Hint: Every woman in the world wears a bra, and the Empire State Building is a mostly-empty tourist attraction.)

    When you start to qualify as such, you start spiraling downward into the pit of feminist reasoning, where the ONLY important things are those things that are done by men — so we should all try to be men.

    SRSLY.

    Like


  470. C_W:

    And, to the best-health-care-in-the-world zombies that think this is rare, I actually talk to people, and doctors make these kinds of errors ALL THE TIME. I know someone crippled by those drooling ‘can’t see the shattered bone fragment’ hacks.

    The figure commonly quoted around my parts is that one out of ten cases are iatrogenic i.e. caused by medical profession.

    The last person I’d thought would do that would be a doctor in the US. It’s certainly all heavy testing and evidence-based, especially with a fear of legislation that has all their resources talking about ‘legal issues’ around every disease.

    Psychosomatic is not a diagnosis. Not in modern US medicine. Modern medicine in general. But especially not the US.

    Slipped epiphysis is more common in black kids: When compared with white children, black children have a higher incidence rate at 3.94 times, and Hispanic children have a 2.54 times higher incidence rate.”

    If only his doctor was more race aware?

    Like


  471. LILGRL:

    When you start to qualify as such, you start spiraling downward into the pit of feminist reasoning, where the ONLY important things are those things that are done by men — so we should all try to be men.

    I’m pretty sure Dan and lurker fully believe the bolded part and have been very vocal re: that.

    Otherwise, did you pull that list from memory?!

    Like


  472. on July 25, 2009 at 4:25 pm Comment_Whatever

    I’d like to point out that I discovered in about two minutes of searching that Henry Louis Gates had been crippled for life by a hack doctor. It’s not that I’m smart. It’s that my competition is a cliche.

    Even people like Roissy feel the need to jabber mad nonsense like:

    But he nursed silent grudges, lots of them. Grudges against the popular kids he thought were always talking behind his back plotting his demise, against the cute girls who never acknowledged him, against authority figures who didn’t understand his deep deep pain.

    I’m afraid, Roissy, he is in fact bitter because he has been in constant pain since he was fourteen. No doubt his crippled condition made him far more intellectual than he would have been. It probably made him the scholar he is today, but I doubt he feels like thanking anyone for it.

    I’m afraid even the whining, screaming madness of a thousand whores and fools is going to fail to convince Henry Louis Gates that his crippled leg is IN FACT whole. That his pain is really just a BAD ATTITUDE.

    Recognizing that fact would move a lot of you closer to being that ‘adult’ thing you all talk about. Other people can have pain that is, you know, REAL. Some of you, like Lucifer, may have been treated badly yourself, but somehow imagine you are the only special one to have ever suffered. No. Whitey gets a lot of bad treatment to, Lucifer.

    Like


  473. Bravo, Lilgrl!

    It would be an interesting exercise to remove from your list the inventions made by Asian Americans.

    It’s unfortunate that the Gates case should not be a race case to begin with; now, it’s all about race.

    Like


  474. this roissy guy is a fraud…a smart one, but a fraud nonetheless, ala bernie madoff. Besides the fact that there is no basis for your diagnosing home some anti-social beta, your assumptions about people in general are just stupid. You ve never observed gates in a social setting, you dont even know whether or not he is introverted or extroverted…you just saw him expressing rage at how he was treated and assumed he must have been brooding years of resentment.
    But, i will address you assuming your assumption of him being a loner is true…the thing about most loners is that they dont want to socialize with what they see in front of them, instead of popular kids who socialize with what’s available. He may have had his social circle outside of school and thought all the people in his 7th grade weren’t worth his time. Just cause you were dumb enough to befriend happy-go-retards in your high school, doesnt make it a worth-while venture.
    Finally, to you and all your drones; just cause a complex (alpha/beta) exists amongst lions and certain species out in the wild, doesnt mean it exists in mankind. And even if it did, your whole basis of what constitutes an alpha man is primarily bullshit. At the end of the day girls decide what terms them on, what tickles their fancy, the fact that you are that doesnt make you alpha. afterall if what turns them on were something else, and it could be anything else, would that still make you alpha. This blog is just bullshit that operates after ” women are excited when they are with me, therefore i am alpha”

    Like


  475. We all knew that weirdo loner kid from seventh grade. He was the strange kid who shuffled around the hallways with his head down, and always sat in the desk as far away from everyone else as possible. Sometimes bullies would pick on him, but mostly the other kids ignored him. He hardly ever spoke, and never rose his hand in class to offer an answer to a question. Nobody knew what he was thinking, and nobody cared, not even the teachers. But he nursed silent grudges, lots of them. Grudges against the popular kids he thought were always talking behind his back plotting his demise, against the cute girls who never acknowledged him, against authority figures who didn’t understand his deep deep pain. These grudges would simmer for months, building to a boil, until one day one of the cool kids accidentally bumped into him while he was standing at his locker, and he turned around in a rage, his eyes on fire, and rained blows down upon that kid, screaming obscenities at the top of his cracking voice. The outburst startled everyone who witnessed it. A teacher rushed up, dragging him away from his hapless victim lying on the floor.

    Henry Louis Gates Junior is that weirdo loner kid.

    What’s funny about this description of him is that it totally describes most of the HBD loving weirdo loners here too but that irony will be totally lost on them.

    Like


  476. “That’s what happens to black men in America”

    I don’t know if I got the quote precisely right, but even if I’m close, it sounds a little hollow coming from someone living in a city with a black (all right, female) mayor, a state with a black man governor, and a nation with a black man president.

    Like


  477. “By the way, isn’t it wild how Mark Fuhrman was about the only decent human benig in the whole OJ Simpson saga, and he was the only one who came out of it with a felony conviction?”

    PA
    I hope that’s sarcasm. Otherwise I’m not quite sure if you should be classified as moron or cretin.

    Like


  478. @doug1:

    “However Mandy let me ask you this: should immigrants or the children of immigrants get affirmative action?

    Should we allow into the country mass numbers of people from groups that our elites feel need affirmative action?”

    No, I don’t believe in affirmative action in regards to race. The College Board also has a tendency of giving out “National Achievement” awards to high scoring black and hispanic students.

    It’s like saying,”Hey, you did a really good job, considering your people are supposed to be stupid!”

    On the other hand, I’ll post the link in a minute, at a college discussion forum, someone brought up that ethnicity is not a huge factor in college acceptances. A number of students (around fifteen percent) don’t report their ethnicity to colleges, and the qualified still get accepted.

    Affirmative action is slowly being killed in the United States, especially since universities are no longer allowed to add points to a students application because they are a minority. (see the University of Michigan affirmative action lawsuit)

    Like


  479. Joe–

    Weak.

    Plenty of alphas believe that HBD aka race and gender realism is pretty much right as well Joe, once they’ve been exposed to it. Before we have we often tend to feel it in our gut. Feel the bullshiite of the official ideology preached in the media and schools. Feel the taboos as bullshiite. As a rebellion against PC, not animus to groups.

    In fact I’m quite sure that a much higher percentage of alpha than beta males have a race and gender aka HBD general viewpoint, more or less.

    It’s the nerdy conformist intelligent betas, without sufficient rebellious juice, who tend to buy and defend PC hook, line and sinker.

    Like


  480. Those who find the orthodox view of the Gates affair here at Roissy stultifying will want to keep up with the gathering comments at Leiter Reports, where the most cogent opposing views are likely to be found:

    http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2009/07/my-one-and-only-comment-on-the-arrest-of-henry-louis-gates-jr.html

    Like


  481. “doug – Plenty of alphas believe that HBD aka race and gender realism is pretty much right as well Joe, once they’ve been exposed to it.”

    They must be not be online or avoiding the HBD sites then, because in the comments section of all these sites, all I see guys who fit Roissy’s description of Gates to a tee.

    Like


  482. Lucifer — the question would be, what besides the West have other cultures achieved? The answer is not much. Some interesting stuff that never went anywhere (like India’s conception of the Zero and Algebra, which went nowhere, compared to the West’s invention of Calculus).

    Again, and this is my point, because the West has more than a thin layer of aristos and Big men, it generally beats other cultures because it has more people doing more things and is “deeper” as well as wider, without social disasters.

    Dreamer: A White kid can no more dream of being an NFL receiver (or College one), running back, defensive lineman, or realistically a basketball player, as those positions and sports are reserved for Blacks ONLY. There’s a color line that keeps Whites out in many sports.

    It’s true that non-Whites and non-White Males have invented a few things, but nothing of the order of magnitude, and certainly nothing of the constant improvement, that White men in the West which is socially “flat” and relatively non-hierarchical has done over the centuries. Without White Male investment the West collapses.

    Is this inevitable? No. Communication and particularly the internet allows end-runs around female-dominated media and SWPL smug yuppies to present the situation unvarnished to men. It allows “secret bloc voting” by men for their own interests. It allows punishment by giving the full Joe the Plumber and Sarah Palin treatment to those who oppose male interests. Political retaliation and fear can account for demographic inferiority (wrt women) by male voters and donors to causes. The NRA is a good example of this (if it were up to women only Alpha males would have guns).

    As for Mexicans, the results are clear. Mexicans DO NOT assimilate. It’s a fantasy of deluded SWPL yuppies. Mexico is right next door, it has a huge population of young people, it’s culture, economy, and politics have all failed to provide for a modern, safe nation. Mexicans are not Germans who form enclaves in South Texas or Nebraska, cut-off from Germany by an ocean. Mexico is right next door, and radically different from the relatively depopulated nation of the 19th Century.

    Third and Fourth Generation Mexican women have skyrocketing teen mother and illegitimacy rates. Their children get locked up for crimes at appalling rates. If any assimilation happens, it’s to Ghetto Black norms (likely for the same reason, competition among boys/men to be the thuggiest thug for thug-preferring Mexican women).

    In addition, Robert Putnam (Bowling Alone author) has found to his liberal dismay that diversity creates distrust and low levels of volunteerism, public involvement and investment, even among same racial groups, i.e. Mexican-to-Mexican. High trust, low-cost societies (low levels of policing, imprisonment) are generally mono-ethnic and have no “Big Man” structures: Finland, Japan, 1950’s America, 1950’s Britain, Switzerland, etc.

    The one exception is a brutal dictator like Lee Kwan Yew, or Tito, and that peace they provide a multi-ethnic society generally does not outlive them.

    Like


  483. Doug –

    It’s the nerdy conformist intelligent betas, without sufficient rebellious juice, who tend to buy and defend PC hook, line and sinker.

    No, nerdy conformist intelligent betas whose childhoods made them grow to resent traditionalists and conservatives and blame them for their inability to fit in anywhere or be all they wanted to be in life tend buy and defend the PC hook, line and sinker.

    Nerdy conformist intelligent betas whose childhoods made them grow to resent liberals, the PC and minorities and blame them for their inability to fit in anywhere or be all they wanted to be in life grow up to buy and defend the HBD dogma hook, line and sinker.

    Black nerdy conformist intelligent betas whose childhoods made them grow to resent white traditionalists and conservatives and blame them for their inability to fit in anywhere or be all they wanted to be in life grow up to buy and defend the afrocentric academia worldview hook, line and sinker.

    They’re no different in ideology or approach to life, just fighting for different armies.

    Like


  484. Mandy–

    A number of students (around fifteen percent) don’t report their ethnicity to colleges, and the qualified still get accepted.

    What’s the puzzle? They get treated as not needing/deserving AA. I.e. as probably being white or Asian.

    Affirmative action is slowly being killed in the United States, especially since universities are no longer allowed to add points to a students application because they are a minority. (see the University of Michigan affirmative action lawsuit)

    Michigan used a naked quota system. It’s easier and cheaper to implement. Other places have used, and now mostly do use, more bs laden systems that involve “goals” and complications. They may not always arrive at quite as rigid a quota resentation of the population but they still constitute very significant AA. What they arrive at will depend on how they “tune” it.

    I’m much more against AA for women than for blacks though. But also much more against it for immigrants including Hispanic ones than for blacks.

    My main reason for bringing up AA there though was to explain why I think it’s legitimate to discriminate in immigration policy against mass immigration of any peoples that are thought to need/deserve it. (btw I think it’s ridiculous that all Hispanics should get AA or be thought to need it. The ethnicities and class origins vary greatly. Cubans for example. Or Brazilians in the US.)

    Then again I don’t think we should any longer allow the mass immigration of anyone.

    Instead, just the best and brightest, from anywhere and any group. Blacks, indo Central Americans, anywhere. As long as they really are demonstrably highly skilled, best and brightest. Still not in swamping numbers, but substantial ones are good.

    Like


  485. Mandy — AA is looming ever larger in College admissions, and is indeed explosive. As parents are unable (if they are White and Middle class) to send kids to college, due to rapidly rising tuition, declining student aid for White kids, and scholarships.

    Already there are lawsuits pending against ETS for the SAT and AP tests, demanding in effect quotas for Blacks and Hispanics against Whites (limited number of slots for admits at each college and each tier of college). Univ. of Michigan is a joke, the AA preferences are now just coded for “experience” which means Black or Hispanic.

    It’s a way of discriminating against upward mobility against White middle and working class aspirants. So people like Tom Friedman can keep their gigantic mansions. Or Al Gore if you prefer. Or rather, that no one else can have mansions like them.

    Nerdy beta types probably are more likely to look at data and underlying science. If Darwin explains evolution, why would it magically not apply to human beings? Why would evolution apply to all living things BUT ourselves? Note, different does not equal “better” and fitness to the environment can imply the common rat more than the blue whale. But there it is.

    “It moves.”

    Like


  486. @doug1:

    “Then again I don’t think we should any longer allow the mass immigration of anyone.

    Instead, just the best and brightest, from anywhere and any group. Blacks, indo Central Americans, anywhere. As long as they really are demonstrably highly skilled, best and brightest. Still not in swamping numbers, but substantial ones are good.”

    While I do agree that mass immigration is probably a bad idea, I don’t think the “best and the brightest” should be allowed in our nation. Everyone who comes to America is looking for something better for themselves and for their children. They’re willing to work for it, and their children will make something of themselves in our nation.

    “btw I think it’s ridiculous that all Hispanics should get AA or be thought to need it. The ethnicities and class origins vary greatly. Cubans for example. Or Brazilians in the US”

    That’s why Mexican and Puerto Rican are, according to the College Board, races. Even though they lump the “Hispanic awards” together, they differentiate between Mexicans and Puerto Ricans.

    I know what you’re saying about Cubans, though. In the 90’s, Cubans or those of Cuban descent had college graduation rates about the same as those of whites. Possibly even slightly higher.

    And Brazilians aren’t Hispanic.

    @whiskey:

    The issues involve the surprisingly large number of qualified students graduating. Also, I know in Florida, students with decent GPAs and SAT scores get full tuition to state schools. Other states have similar policies. There ARE scholarships for whites, I’ve even found scholarships for people of Polish descent, people whose ancestors fought in the revolution, etc. etc.

    The issue is seen with the record number of students applying to Ivy League and other first tier universities (New Ivies, if you will). Many think that they will get in with their “good enough” test scores. Many have ridiculously false hopes. I know that financial aid is hard to come by, but most schools have financial aid appeals, scholarships, etc.

    Here I’m drawing up the race statistics for an Ivy League school, Cornell University:
    Black
    1985: 4.60%
    1995: 4.20%
    2005: 4.80%
    Hispanic
    1985: 3.70%
    1995: 6.00%
    2005: 5.40%
    Asian
    1985: 8.30%
    1995: 16.80%
    2005: 15.90%
    Native American
    1985: 0.25%
    1995: 0.47%
    2005: 0.47%
    White
    1985: 79.24%
    1995: 59.53%
    2005: 56.57%
    International
    1985: 3.10%
    1995: 5.90%
    2005: 7.50%

    Notice that White and Asian students applying to college need to worry more about OTHER white and Asian students they are competing with. The school has a very small percentage of Black and Hispanic students. About one in ten students is a Non Asian minority. The United States isn’t even distributed that way racially.

    I’m not justifying affirmative action, but I’m saying, it isn’t this huge plight that the white middle class makes it out to be. Face it, the white middle class is the majority. These students get around the same SAT scores, and are all going to have decent GPAs. It’s their activities that NEED to stand out.

    Like


  487. Oh, and I know I only used one school as an example. I know that region plays an important part in the demographic breakdown of a school. Schools located in LA probably have a higher percentage of Latinos (Just because there are MORE latinos) schools located in Miami and Florida definitely have more Hispanic students. Region plays a role in determining the demographics of a university, although almost every university STILL has a large Asian and White majority.

    Affirmative Action was created to mimic the “real world” percentages of different races and ethnicities. I wonder why so many universities are 15-20% Asian instead of the “real world America” 5%.

    Like


  488. Whiskey,

    Nobody cares about the white version of history and destiny. Only the objective is real, the subjective is just bullshit.

    Your lucky break was the ‘black death’ (1300s), an event that made the “status quo” unrestorable. Events that unfolded from that point (soft reboot) onwards were what changed your luck. It was always luck and chance, not your innate ability.

    Look, I have no reason to feel any gratitude towards your type. You had your role in the continuum of change, and now it is over.

    PS- Please keep your women. Why would anyone want a white woman in a world where being white was not advantageous.

    Like


  489. Mandy:

    While I do agree that mass immigration is probably a bad idea, I don’t think the “best and the brightest” should be allowed in our nation. Everyone who comes to America is looking for something better for themselves and for their children. They’re willing to work for it, and their children will make something of themselves in our nation.

    i.e. let everyone in, but legally?

    Like


  490. @Bhetti:

    Well, no.

    That’s not practical.

    I mean, as it is, the best and the brightest will come to America more easily than the rest.

    But I think a few others should be let in as well. To be given a chance. Legally, though. Illegal immigration is not right. It isn’t.

    America can’t let everyone in right now; in fact, even in the best of times it’s not practical.

    Like


  491. Mandy: Well, you have to define the selection criteria quite clearly. e.g. in the UK, it’s best and brightest and those seeking asylum. And then ‘seeking asylum’ has to be more clearly defined. ‘Best and brightest’ as well, even, with Australia if I recall correctly targeting people in specific professions.

    Recalling also that people get around it via marriage.

    Like


  492. @Bhetti:

    re Australia: I know Germany also gives citizenship more easily to those employed in fields like chemical engineering, etc.

    I think probably opening our borders to those seeking asylum (and of course evaluating the situations and deciding what that is exactly) is probably the best idea, considering America is a country about freedom and whatnot.

    Along with “best and brightest,” (most likely those employed in the sciences and doing research.)

    More specific than that of course.

    Like


  493. Congrats to Whiskey. Got a feature article on Sailer’s blog. (Whiskey goes by Testing99 in those commetns section.)

    Whiskey, I still think you are a monomaniac on women and nuts with their “HATE HATE HATE” of white men. But your heart’s in the right place.

    Like


  494. “India was 33% of the world economy in the year zero, bigger than the Roman Empire, and even as recently as 1820, was about 20%.

    But by the 1970s, India was just 1% of World GDP. This was far after the British left.

    Today, India has recovered to a better but still pathetic 2% of World GDP.

    There are lessons in the massive decline of India (and China, along a similar timeline) that America would do well to heed.

    Yes, the lesson is not to let a foreign country (e.g Britain) do the following:

    1. take control over your agricultural system, creating mass famines thanks to indifference and hoarding.

    2. Create an economic situation where the foreign power allows only its goods to be purchased by the subject nation, monopolizing the market, quickly enabling the transfer of wealth and manufacturing power. (Although the proponents of this arrangement I am sure delusionally referred to it as a “free market” system, this was absolutely not the case back then, and is still somewhat removed from the reality currently. )

    3. Suck dry the resources of your country.

    -Since no foreign country is ruling America militarily, these lessons don’t fully apply, with the exception of number 2, although this time its the anglosphere doing it to themselves, since the American consumer has in essence become to the Global financial elite what the Indians were to the British.

    -and relax about the “pathetic” 2%. It takes time for such a revival.

    Like


  495. “Lucifer — the question would be, what besides the West have other cultures achieved? The answer is not much. Some interesting stuff that never went anywhere (like India’s conception of the Zero and Algebra, which went nowhere, compared to the West’s invention of Calculus).”

    -You will do well to study, with an open mind, the internal and spiritual truths that have long been known and lived in the East, and have barely been seen in the West obsessed with externals. It is those realms that Eastern greatness is measured by. Machines and skyscrapers are calculus are interesting but transient (and the former two are hideous in nature as well, but I digress).

    Like


  496. “Lucy,

    OK, let’s see if you can organize the voices in your vacant skull.

    Exactly what percentage with the GDP of the United States decline by, by which year. Since you think the West is on the ‘brink of collapse’, you should be able to put forth some numerical predictions of what will happen.

    A 25% decline by 2010? A 100% decline by 2012? What is it going to be?

    1. Don’t just look at GDP. Look at debt:GDP ratio, and that will tell you how severe the economic situation is.

    2. If you want a number on the decline, go for 30-40% contraction at least.

    3. Take a look at California – the eighth largest economy in the world and the driver of America – and its budget crisis, to see an indicator into the state of the nation.

    4. Look at the current national budget and ask who is going to pay for this new debt? (look at the treasury website to see the upcoming treasury auctions of debt – its an amazing figure)

    5. Expect another stock market crash – the thing is rigged by Quant/Programmed funds, is devoid from the current economic reality, is full of insider trading (head of ChaseMorgan sold a lot of his stocks recently – perhaps he might know something?)

    6. I could post more economic explanations, but perhaps it is better to say, study the mentality of the citizen’s of the nation and ask if it is a viable one for a healthy society.

    Like


  497. rr,

    They do not get it… It is over for them, and it is not coming back.

    Delusions of white ‘superiority’ die hard.. luckily we have evolution (in it’s conceptual sense) to take care of that.

    Like


  498. You will do well to study, with an open mind, the internal and spiritual truths that have long been known and lived in the East, and have barely been seen in the West obsessed with externals. It is those realms that Eastern greatness is measured by.

    What a load of humbug. Tell me how the people in Asia are demonstrating these “great spiritual truths” right now. Tell me how these “spiritual truths” have improved the lives of everyday people in Asia. Then compare that to how “materialism” has improved the lives of everyday people in the West (as well as everyday people in Asia who have adopted Western methods). Given a choice between living a “materially great but spiritually empty” life in America and living a “spiritually great” life in a materially impoverished Indian shithole, I’ll take the former every time.

    Like


  499. Joe–

    They must be not be online or avoiding the HBD sites then, because in the comments section of all these sites, all I see guys who fit Roissy’s description of Gates to a tee.

    Horseshiite.

    Which of the alphas around here DON’T believe more or less in gender and race realism, aka HBD?

    You know nothing on this issue, but spout much, wishing to believe much, for black ego reasons it would seem.

    Like


  500. Lucifer

    What one sees nowadays in SE Asia is a mad rush to emulate western technology and material abundance. This is no different than the way that all tribal societies say to themselves, “Fuck this primitive shit” as soon as they see what the 1st world is like.
    And what is the story about special condoms for Indian men? That must hurt.

    Like


  501. Lucy,

    There is nothing to ‘get’. You have demostrated yourself to be an astonishingly dumb, incoherent, and illogical person.

    You could not answer my simple question from yesterday, could you?

    Coward.

    Plus, Lucy and rr are the same person. A very amateurish (and pathetic) attempt to agree with oneself.

    Like


  502. You know nothing on this issue, but spout much, wishing to believe much, for black ego reasons it would seem.

    See, this is exactly what I mean.

    PC guy gets livid when you attack his orthodoxy. Same as afrocentric. Same as feminist. Same as HBD guy.

    PC guy unleashes ad hom shaming language when you attack his orthodoxy (You disagree because you’re a rich, capitalist fat cat, because that’s the only way someone can possible disagree with me.) Same as afrocentric (You disagree because you’re racist, because that’s the only way someone can possible disagree with me.) . Same as feminist (You disagree because you hate women, because that’s the only way someone can possible disagree with me.). Same as HBD guy (You disagree because of black racial ego reasons, because that’s the only way someone can possible disagree with me).

    Thanks for proving my point. All you guys are the same in ideology and approach to the world, you’re just fighting for power from different sides.

    Never mind the fact I insulted afrocentrics in my comments as being no better. Never mind that I don’t agree with Gates and haven’t stuck up for him and think he’s an idiot. If I was motivated by black racist ego reasons, why would I put down afrocentrism? No, obviously I must be a raging black pride racialist.

    Like


  503. ”””””’Rum
    Lucifer

    What one sees nowadays in SE Asia is a mad rush to emulate western technology and material abundance. This is no different than the way that all tribal societies say to themselves, “Fuck this primitive shit” as soon as they see what the 1st world is like.
    ””””””””’

    It is sad really. You see a mad rush of advertisers to turn the populace from free to slave with credit cards and all the other accoutrements (including divorce law more than likely). They are happy now. They won’t be.

    Like


  504. on July 26, 2009 at 12:24 am Willard Libby

    Lucifer

    They do not get it… It is over for them, and it is not coming back.

    Meanwhile you are a Tamil loser living in Virginia. Your people are going nowhere except chasing after White people and their civilization.

    Delusions of white ’superiority’ die hard.. luckily we have evolution (in it’s conceptual sense) to take care of that.

    Tamil scumbags like you were bypassed by history and evolution long ago.

    You people don’t even have much of a place in your home country of India.

    That’s why you are here and not there.

    It’s tough for you to admit but you are from a people who have done nothing and a people who never will amount to anything.

    Hence your bitterness and envy toward your natural superiors, whether they are in India or the West.

    Like


  505. Bhetti

    Recalling also that people get around it via marriage.

    Ah yes. Best and brightest and where bitches are concerned, also most beautiful. But they should have to get in by marrying local men. Good for local men. Of course some bitches will game the system with false marriages. Such is life.

    Like


  506. Wait, let me get something straight.

    Are you black, Joe?

    Because if you are, well, I’m not getting any afrocentric vibes from your post. I’m not saying that you have to be afrocentric to be black, or that all blacks are afrocentric, I’m just saying, I don’t get the accusations of afrocentrism. The race card is irrelevant here.

    “PC guy unleashes ad hom shaming language when you attack his orthodoxy (You disagree because you’re a rich, capitalist fat cat, because that’s the only way someone can possible disagree with me.) Same as afrocentric (You disagree because you’re racist, because that’s the only way someone can possible disagree with me.) . Same as feminist (You disagree because you hate women, because that’s the only way someone can possible disagree with me.). Same as HBD guy (You disagree because of black racial ego reasons, because that’s the only way someone can possible disagree with me).”

    And this whole paragraph is amazingly true.

    Like


  507. on July 26, 2009 at 12:34 am Willard Libby

    Joe, don’t confuse legitimate HBD/sociobiology with it’s less sophisticated online advocates.

    Many HBD advocates are not very bright and tend toward the nerdy/Aspergy types. Many are dogmatic and paranoid and categorical in their view. I’m talking to you whiskey/testing99

    Maybe they are hiding in the simplified data to cover up their own social inadequacies.

    But legitimate HBD/sociobiology is an honest attempt to understand humanity from a biological perspective devoid of religious myths, PC self deception and economic determinism.

    Humans are risen apes not fallen angels. We have strong biologically bases dives, abilities and limitations. HBD/sociobiology tries to fully develop this human reality.

    The fact that some people misunderstand it or misrepresent it for their own psychological reasons is no reason to dismiss the long struggle in Western science to get beyond the myths/lies/arrogance of organized religion in trying to understand the human condition.

    Like


  508. PA — Saw that. Yeah it was nice. Not monomaniac I think, just all the wiser. You’ve been lucky enough not be around a zillion bitchy professional women who hate beta males and don’t edit their thoughts.

    Lucifer — before the Black Death, Europe had already launched the Crusades, which conducted ineptly and half-heartedly, retook Jerusalem. Astonishing.

    Indeed, the Black Death proves my point. Persia soon became Hellenistic and then Islamic once the thin crust of the Persian elites were killed. The same held true for Christian Egypt, and North Africa. It was NOT true in Spain, and Sicily, and Italy, and other places in Europe where once the elites were killed, by disease or invasion, new Elites popped up

    rr/Lucifer: all the Zen in the world won’t make up for the fact that a society is structured so most of it’s potential goes wasted. India got conquered well and good first by the Moghuls and then the British East India Company because caste, religion, trust, and everything else divided them and made them global losers. A prize to be plucked. Lacking the structure that made them “elite proof” i.e. kill the local elite, a new one springs up, still fighting, and utilizing nearly all the resources available. Japan half-heartedly figured that out when Commodore Perry’s Black Fleet appeared in Tokyo Bay, unstoppable. And still thought “fighting spirit” would win the day in WWII.

    Even with the West having huge issues with men-women relationships, the East is no better and has if anything even worse relations between it’s genders, either repressive harems and the like, or Big Men taking all the women, or overly male structured socities, tipping into late-Western style soft female-oriented polygamy. Against a huge peasant backdrop of illiterates and superstious ignorance.

    If a bio-plague wiped out all the world’s elites, the West could recover, but the East save perhaps Japan, would not. Who would run China after the Red Princes are wiped out? The whole place would be beset by warlordism, the usual state of affairs in China.

    Like


  509. Mandy XD–

    And Brazilians aren’t Hispanic.

    Such a pedantic bitch.

    You think i didn’t know that, technically? With Portuguese the language and history and all?

    Still I think they get into the same category, AA wise. Stupid category. But why should beneficiaries object, or many of them?

    Like


  510. Yes, I’m black Mandy. Anyway, I’m done with the topic. I’ve said my piece.

    Like


  511. Rum,

    Your type is screwed.. it is over. You are just going to be one more addition to the list of ancient civilizations.

    Of course, the rest of the world will adopt the better aspects of ‘your culture’ and move on.. not unlike what your ancestors did.

    Enjoy the ride.

    Like


  512. Tood,

    I find people like you amusing.. that is all.

    Your questions are not worth answering for one reason – you want validation of your beliefs by linear projections of “data”.

    Data is only as valid as the methods used to gather it and the assumptions of the models used to interpret it. Are you watching the financial meltdown? Ever wonder how we got there..

    Like


  513. Willard Libby,

    Two questions-

    1] Why use a white sounding name?

    2] Do you believe in magic? (because that is the only way you will prevail).

    Like


  514. Willard Libby,

    You are conflating method (scientific enquiry) with race (white). If whites were “special”, why were the first civilizations non-european.

    Let me put it another way… if the tertiary extinction had not occurred, would dinosaurs have dominated for the next two geological epochs? If the cretaceous extinction had not occurred, would we be having this conversation.

    It is about chance, not manifest destiny.

    Like


  515. @doug1:

    “Such a pedantic bitch.”
    Excuse you.

    “You think i didn’t know that, technically? With Portuguese the language and history and all?”
    I don’t know what you know or what you don’t know. I don’t read minds.

    Yes, you’re a very brilliant man, perhaps one of the most brilliant I’ve ever met, but no one is omniscient.

    “Still I think they get into the same category, AA wise. Stupid category. But why should beneficiaries object, or many of them?”
    It depends on the organization giving the award or scholarship. The College Board recognizes Brazilians as Hispanics, most other awards and organizations don’t. The same applies to Spanish people; they often aren’t grouped together with Hispanics.

    It’s quite complicated. In my personal opinion, if America wants to be so color-blind and fair, college and job applications should not ask for ethnicity. In fact, they should not ask for gender. Instead, each student should be given a code (that way the gender won’t be given away by the name) and apply that way. The Universities,etc would then judge the prospective students based on extracurriculars, GPA, test scores, etc. The results would be interesting.

    Now, who private organizations decide to give their money to is up to them. Same applies to private universities.

    Like


  516. whiskey,

    Many people believe obama was not born in the USA. I do not think they can be convinced otherwise, because not believing in that idea would make their existence meaningless.

    You believe that whites are inherently superior.. your choice. I feel that believing in that myth is necessary for you to function.

    That is fine with me.. just don’t expect “non-whites” to care about you or treat you any better than you treated them.

    Like


  517. on July 26, 2009 at 12:59 am Willard Libby

    Lucifer

    Willard Libby,

    Two questions-

    1] Why use a white sounding name?

    You’re the one who uses the name Lucifer. What’s Whiter than that one.

    2] Do you believe in magic? (because that is the only way you will prevail).

    No, science and capitalism.

    If White people magically disappear the global world they created will still be around.

    Meanwhile if every Tamil disappeared tomorrow it would be no different than cleaning all the cow shit off the dirt roads of India.

    It would be a cleaner world but nothing of significance would be lost.

    And you know that.

    Like


  518. To summarise all of Lucifer’s Posts: *laughter, unnervingly devoid of emotion* Do you people not understand that there is no meaning to your existence? Everything is doomed. You are headed for destruction. Humans are silly. There is no such thing as morality. Why are you even still breathing?

    whiskey: So what’s the optimum model of gender relations, if everyone’s globally missing the mark?

    Doug: Bitches and false marriages… at least the bribery that is typically incolved contributes to his income. Obviously applies if you reverse the genders as well.

    Such a pedantic bitch.

    Aw, Doug, I bet you say that to all the girls.

    Like


  519. whiskey,

    The east has the technology, demography and willingness to play bioweapon games. Pray that it won’t happen, because there will be no west after that.

    Ever seen the ethnicity of people who study science lately?

    Like


  520. Willard Libby,

    Yes.. civilization will survive, but no one will remember your type.

    Like


  521. Bhetti,

    Surprisingly good.. Yes, I find human hubris, idiocy, delusions and bullshit both amusing and tragic.

    Such a waste of potential..

    Like


  522. Lucifer, I’ve figured out Willard’s name.

    William+retard= Willard.

    I win.

    And as for the debate over whether whites/white civilization will survive or not:

    1) Our descendants will probably look very very different from what we are now, so what does it matter?
    2) All great civilizations eventually fall and give rise to new ones. What comes up must come down.
    3) America isn’t near its decline yet, I don’t think. It’s still a very young nation.
    4) Why would you want a fully functioning, great civilization that you are a part of (you are living in America, Lucy, from what I understand) to fall? Why? If it’s working, and you’re part of it, do what you can to keep it working. You don’t want to be there when all hell breaks loose, Lucifer.

    Like


  523. Lucifer
    You do not know what my “type” is, for one thing. For another, in a 1000 years we will all have been dead for a long time. Some of the things that some of us do here will echo into the ages. For the rest of you, the end will be more like a face-down pratt fall into vat of pig shit.
    And in the meantime, we do not have to deal with the horror of needing special smallish condoms.

    Like


  524. Mandy! XD,

    I do not hate whites or anybody else, because of their race.

    I hate hubris, idiocy, delusions and bullshit. Today, the biggest purveyors of those qualities happen to be white.. that is all.

    I am interested in objective and verifiable truth, not bullshit and confabulations.

    Like


  525. Rum,

    We won’t have to wait a thousand years for that… it has already started. Otherwise, would we be having this conversation?

    Like


  526. Lucifer

    The main reason this conversation is happening is the cleverness of a lot of internet building guys.
    Thing is, I have a lot of respect for Indians (dots, not feathers). Hinduism can function as a near approximation of religious liberty. God knows the women are hot.
    But Kemal Ataturk nailed it in the 1920s when he told his Turkish followers, “There is only one civilization and we can join it it or watch from the outside.” more or less.

    Like


  527. Rum,

    I have no issues with western civilization, but white hubris on the other hand..

    Look, I take issue with people ascribing to their ability what can be more rationally explained with chance/luck.

    Like


  528. Rum,

    The internet is one of the best examples of various technologies being created and combined because of chance events and timelines.

    The PC is another..

    None would have existed without some peculiar combination of unrelated events.

    Like


  529. on July 26, 2009 at 1:50 am Willard Libby

    Lucifer

    Willard Libby,

    Yes.. civilization will survive, but no one will remember your type.

    Nobody gives a shit about your “type” now.

    And nobody will care in the future either.

    Mandy! XD

    Lucifer, I’ve figured out Willard’s name.

    William+retard= Willard.

    I win.

    Willard Libby = invented carbon DATING = Dating = Game.

    Mandy! XD = Mandy eXtremely Dopey

    Like


  530. A map of the earth if we removed “only” 5% of the nations with the lowest GDP:

    http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/06/how-to-destroy-almost-half-planet-for.html

    Like


  531. John S.,

    GDP numbers are based on faith in your economic system.. sadly yours is just a ponzi scheme.

    Try again..

    Like


  532. on July 26, 2009 at 4:27 am gunslingergregi

    ””””””””””’Lucifer
    Bhetti,

    Surprisingly good.. Yes, I find human hubris, idiocy, delusions and bullshit both amusing and tragic.

    Such a waste of potential..”””””””””””

    It really is tragic that we are stuck at nigger and living on 500 a month after paying house and bills. Shit is wild. I mean how the fuck are we the way we are. We still basically torture each other. Make slaves of men using bullshit excuses. Plus it is so easy to play with the human dynamic through media. Fucking pathetic. We don’t have families we don’t have each other. We just have the state which has replaced religion as god.

    Like


  533. on July 26, 2009 at 4:38 am Sick of Stupid Dipshits

    GNPs are for Apes wrote:

    Blacks still approve of Obama 97%. Whites + Hispanics + Asians only approve 43%. No white, Hispanic, or Asian politican will ever get a 97% approval rating from his OWN race. Period.

    Hey dumbfuck, check out how many blacks voted for Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and John Kerry.

    Black people don’t vote Republican. Why? Probably because of stupid pieces of race-obsessed shit like you.

    Like


  534. on July 26, 2009 at 5:04 am gunslingergregi

    ””””””’John S.
    A map of the earth if we removed “only” 5% of the nations with the lowest GDP:

    http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/06/how-to-destroy-almost-half-planet-for.html”””””””

    Holy Shit we got some conversation on the white cop black dude and they are trying to pass bill on global warming to reduce world gdp 5 percent. Which means at least 5 percent more layoffs right. Yea that shit was staged. Plus the health care thing which will further reduce gdp. If carbon dioxide is such a problem why can’t we plant more trees. Problem solved. What was the problem again?
    Are people fucking this stupid?

    Like


  535. on July 26, 2009 at 5:05 am gunslingergregi

    Floating algee farms covering a thousand square miles again wtf are people talking about. Why can people not fucking think about a god dam thing.

    Like


  536. on July 26, 2009 at 5:20 am gunslingergregi

    Solve world hunger and fucking global (bitching) at the same time. Make fucking an empire state building tall structure 100 miles by 100 miles. fill that bitch with hydroponics power it off the fucking mohave dessert. How much CO2 is that removed again. All the special smart snowflakes who want something important to talk about because they ain’t getting pussy and don’t want it because they would rather contemplate reducing something that plants need to breath and we as human beings need to eat. So apparently whitey boy found another way to kill the global population that is pc instead of just killing em all bullet by bullet. Got to admit whitey is one smart motherfucker.

    Like


  537. on July 26, 2009 at 5:23 am gunslingergregi

    ”””””””on July 26, 2009 at 4:38 am Sick of Stupid Dipshits
    GNPs are for Apes wrote:

    Blacks still approve of Obama 97%. Whites + Hispanics + Asians only approve 43%. No white, Hispanic, or Asian politican will ever get a 97% approval rating from his OWN race. Period.

    Hey dumbfuck, check out how many blacks voted for Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and John Kerry.

    Black people don’t vote Republican. Why? Probably because of stupid pieces of race-obsessed shit like you.””””””””””””

    Those are the peeps trying to kill you though. ahhahahahhaahahhhahahahahahha

    Like


  538. on July 26, 2009 at 5:45 am gunslingergregi

    100 miles by 100 stories by 100 miles roughly 26 percent of landmass of us.

    Irrigated Land in US Cia factbook.
    214,000 sq km (1998 est.)

    So yea lets times that irrigated land by ten and be able to feed world and be able to stop global warming and it will only cost around 5 percent of global gdp initially but then way less.

    Like


  539. on July 26, 2009 at 6:08 am gunslingergregi

    So yea that will also help employment for quite some time and guys will get to work a job they can be proud of and tell there kids and grandkids about participating in. Creating memories of resiliance and achievment for a new generation. Then build one just like it on the other side of the world. Spin balance the location using a computer model so in case people start saying the world is off balance.

    Like


  540. Which of the alphas around here DON’T believe more or less in gender and race realism, aka HBD?”

    LOL Yeh right a big bunch of Alpha Males spending all of Saturday night arguing on the internet. Yep, bet pussy just flings itself at ya where ever you go.

    Like


  541. on July 26, 2009 at 9:26 am mandy been here a while

    rr has a point

    When China wants to collect on the US T-Bills, what happens then?

    Like


  542. “When China wants to collect on the US T-Bills, what happens then?”

    @mandy been here —

    That’s the endgame.

    But seriously China will be very reluctant to do that, because bankrupting its largest export market would be very painful to China as well. Right now China and the US are in a dysnfunctional co-dependent relationship. It will end at some point, but not without much mutual pain.

    Like


  543. Doug,
    Yes, Prine George’s County, the richest, most affluent Black area of the USA per capita, is so largely for the reasons you presented I believe.

    So what?

    The point is that there is living proof that all Black folk don’t live subhuman existences in the innercity core ghetto. And as for affirmative action, again, so what?-White folks by and large, did and to an extent still do refuse to make distinctions among African Americans, and choose instead to hold on to beliefs about Black folk in the most crudest and broadest of terms, which prevents Blacks from being hired in private businesses. So, yea, the gov’t at just bout all levels, does indeed tend to hire Black folk more than the private sector. Big whup.

    One of my big problems with say, OneSTDV’s “merit only” approach is that it’s something that NEVER EXISTED to begin with-there’s no such animal. There have always been ancilliary or out and out discriminatory practices done to ensure certain groups got in and others were left out, and only deluded White folks, who try to make errbody else believe in this “colorblind” nonsense, actually believes in this stuff.

    The bottomline is that Black folk feel that we need to be represented in EVERY area of American life that matters, because dammit, we helped build this Mutha. And we WILL be, no matter who don’t like it.

    Like I said, we’ve learned how to play the game too. Don’t hate the playas. Hate the game.

    Which Black folks didn’t invent.

    O

    Like


  544. because dammit, we helped build this Mutha

    Some did, some didn’t. Work in bondage counted for something, as did service in the military, honest work and such.

    But are any black people capable of honestly looking at areas where you fucked up?

    Are you embarrassed when you see blacks in prison, blacks leading the way in bastardy, blacks fucking up every city and neighborhood they move into?

    I’m willing ot look at the positive and the negative in blacks’ (or whites’) balance sheet. Are you?

    Like


  545. Gates’ reaction should have been expected and it has little to do with his beta status. It has to do with our educational system, the one that propagates a spurious account of American history.

    Educational System and Belief in Racial Profiling

    Like


  546. Obsidian–

    And as for affirmative action, again, so what?-White folks by and large, did and to an extent still do refuse to make distinctions among African Americans, and choose instead to hold on to beliefs about Black folk in the most crudest and broadest of terms, which prevents Blacks from being hired in private businesses.

    Bullshiite cover for blacks not cutting it.

    Of course some/many do.

    But the overall statistics aren’t fully up to snuff. They never will be so long as logical reasoning is important in modern economies. Affirmative action should end and everyone should find their natural place, and leftist propaganda should stop telling blacks and Mexicans and anyone else that there’s anything wrong with that.

    Like


  547. Obsidian–

    One of my big problems with say, OneSTDV’s “merit only” approach is that it’s something that NEVER EXISTED to begin with-there’s no such animal. There have always been ancilliary or out and out discriminatory practices done to ensure certain groups got in and others were left out, and only deluded White folks, who try to make errbody else believe in this “colorblind” nonsense, actually believes in this stuff.

    Everything is a matter of degree Obsidian. Some economies and governments are vastly more meritocratic than others. Procedures can be put in place. That’s why there were civil service exams — since gotten around with affirmative action.

    We should work towards less discrimination, not more, and prohibit crude discrimination certainly in government and in major gate keeping institutions such as universities.

    Affirmative action is crude discrimination.

    It should end.

    Like


  548. You think i didn’t know that, technically? With Portuguese the language and history and all?

    Still I think they get into the same category, AA wise. Stupid category. But why should beneficiaries object, or many of them?

    I would gladly answer “hispanic” if the US Census ever asked me

    Like


  549. When China wants to collect on the US T-Bills, what happens then?

    China implodes and her rulers will be hanged in lamp-posts. The are deeply aware of that, but they haven´t figured yet how to break the marriage with the US

    Like


  550. gig,

    China has many other options to slow-strangle the west.

    Like


  551. “There have always been ancilliary or out and out discriminatory practices done to ensure certain groups got in and others were left out, and only deluded White folks, who try to make errbody else believe in this “colorblind” nonsense, actually believes in this stuff.

    Of course I understand this. Look at Harvard, Yale, and Princeton. They used to only accept kids from elite New England prep schools. I think back in 1950, 95% of the graduating class at Andover was accepted to one of those schools.

    But it really doesn’t matter. Past transgressions don’t justify today’s wrongs. Using your logic, I could just say: “Well whites enslaved blacks for awhile, so let’s start enslaving Asians!”

    Anything else: see doug1’s comments.

    Like


  552. Hey goofy troll, name three.

    Like


  553. I spent 5 months backpacking in India while in college.

    I do look like a native in Spain or Italy, no one would give a second look. What I discovered in India, to my utter amusement, was that Indians looked at me and concluded that I was either

    – Israeli (the frustrated anti-semite strikes again!)
    – Indian, though from the 99th percentile in fairness. I appeared in A BOLLIWOOD COMMERCIAL. The degree of indian frustration with their lack of fair skin and the worshipping of fair skinned people that are Indian looking are amazing.

    I felt like Adriana Lima. Every door was opened for me. In Varanasi, where I was paying like 12 USD per day in my hotel, I was ASKED to stay in the Local Taj hotel lobby just because they liked to have beautiful people hanging around.

    SOuth Indians have that complex much worse. Because at least North Indians are marginally – fairer and have -marginally- more beautiful faces

    South Indians are ugly like orcs. if you want to see an example of South Indian beauty, google “feministX”. Silvia will know the word we have for guys who bang girls like the orcish femX, ” barangar”

    Like


  554. China has many other options to slow-strangle the west.

    they have dozens. they just need one that doesn´t strangle them also

    the greatest difference between East Asians (Korea, Japan and China) and the rest of Asia is the lack of sexual frustration concerning white women.

    Japanese guys who went to Europe in the 1800s for the first time sincerely described european women as having ” dog´s eyes”. Other Asians are completely stunned by white women.

    Like


  555. @WillardLibby:

    But rocks don’t date!

    /bad joke

    @gig:

    Similar things have happened to me in regards to race. An Indian friend of mine would always say I looked like a White Indian (“You should meet my grandmother, she’ll say you’re the prettiest girl ever!” o.o) and I’ve had people go up to me and say,”You look like my friend _____, and she’s Persian/half Iraqi/etc.”

    I don’t think I look like any of those things.

    “Japanese guys who went to Europe in the 1800s for the first time sincerely described european women as having ” dog´s eyes”.”
    That’s because eye shape and size also has to deal with region. Better climates usually result in people having larger eyes. Northern European people usually have interesting colored eyes, not necessarily pretty shaped eyes.

    IMO Mediterreanean and Middle Eastern people have the best eyes because they tend to be large and have long pretty eyelashes.

    Like


  556. OneSTDV,
    No, it *does really matter* because you and your ilk are tilting at windmills that never, EVER, existed, nor will they. Bottomline: as long as human beings are a part of the mix, there will NEVER be a such thing as ANYONE getting over, purely and solely based on “merit”.

    Indeed, we see this happening right now out in Cali, where Asians, they very ones you cited above, are literally kicking White kids’ asses on err standardized test known to Man-and guess what, White parents are none too happy about that. The very people who bitch and moan about “unqualified” Black folk getting into school now turn around and say, hey those Asians shouldn’t be taking all the choice spots in college, I don’t care *what* his/her score is!

    A bigger conceit is harder to find.

    Like I said One, its a game we non White folks didn’t create, but we’ve learned how to play it-so well, that we can even convince half the country’s Whites to pull the lever for a Black Man as Leader of the Free World.

    So, let’s recap:

    1. There has never been, there is not now, nor will there ever be, a such thing as “pure merit”. So long as human beings are a part of the equation, other factors will become part of the mix in determining who gets to be, and who doesn’t get to be.

    2. Whites, particularly those like yourself, simply must learn to accept that there are increasing numbers of non Whites who have not only studied this Great American Skin Game, but can play it for maximum advantage. Bitching, moaning, pissing in one’s beer will change NOTHING. In fact, all it does is make you look like a Sore Loser-and in America, *nobody* likes a loser. In the Game, there is a concept, a very important one, called “knowing when to eject”-meaning, when to gracefully bow out. Practice this at home, One.

    3. Doug’s point in relation to PGC is a non-sequitur, for the reasons I’ve already indicated. Please review it.

    Questions? Holla back

    The Obsidian

    Like


  557. for Lucifer there is only one thing western worth preserving. Redtube porn videos of white women.

    Like


  558. Doug,
    I’ve said this before, about a week ago, but you might have missed it, so I’ll briefly recap:

    See, I have no problem w/White businesses refusing to hire Blacks because they’re “unqualified”-the problem I HAVE is when many of these same White businesses then turnaround and hire grossly unqualified White folks-and as one who knows what it is to run businesses, make payroll, and see how the Business World’s sauage is made, please do not attempt to tell me that there’s no such thing as an Old (White) Boy’s Network.

    There most certainly, is.

    And hey, I’m 100% completely cool with that, because, again, as one who’s been in business (and about to be in a big way in a minute) I’m all for private business answering to one thing and one thing alone: the Market. So, if White folks don’t wanna put Blac folks on because they think we’re unqualified, hey that’s cool.

    Just don’t try to pull the wool over our eyes, when the son, and son in law, and Daddy’s little girl, and the favored nephew, who spent all his time in frat parties getting smashed, all get on and damn near run the business into the ground. I’ve seen this too many times to count, and five’ll get you ten, you and quite a few others, have seen it too.

    And again, wrt PGC, yup the gov’t hires more Black folk than anyone else. They also hire more White folk than anyone else-and you certainly don’t need me to tell you that you don’t hve to look high and low to find quite a few incompetent folk who happen to be White.

    Now, Doug, let’s keep something in mind here-polling indicates, that nearly half of all African Americans are at the least ambivalent toward Affirmative Action. Ergo, guys like you, and the GOP, could have potent allies. Let’s not alienate potential allies, hmm?

    And I haven’t even discussed the Market-based implications of hatin’ on Black folks.

    Consider the big picture, Doug. You’re a Stanford Man. I kno you’ll do the right thing.

    😉

    O

    Like


  559. @Obsidian:

    “Indeed, we see this happening right now out in Cali, where Asians, they very ones you cited above, are literally kicking White kids’ asses on err standardized test known to Man-and guess what, White parents are none too happy about that. The very people who bitch and moan about “unqualified” Black folk getting into school now turn around and say, hey those Asians shouldn’t be taking all the choice spots in college, I don’t care *what* his/her score is!”

    This is the point I’m trying to make. The biggest competition for a white college bound high school student are other white students and Asians.

    And as I’ve said before, Asians make up 5% of the USA, yet somehow colleges manage to have much, much higher percentages of Asians, with the exception of Vanderbilt (located in Tennessee), which, despite it’s high ranking, manages to scare away Asians.

    You can complain all you want, but these students are qualified. They’re not getting in on AA.

    And college percentages regarding Hispanics and Blacks usually DON’T fit the actual “real world America” ethnic breakdown of Hispanics and Blacks, which means that not all these students are getting in on AA alone.

    Face it, a Harvard will NOT accept a Black student with an 800 SAT. It just won’t happen.

    Like


  560. Oh, and btw, Whites learn to play the skin game too. I have White nonHispanic friends that are registered as Hispanic to see if it will give them more opportunities in college.

    True story.

    Like


  561. @mandy

    I think that japanese were horrified with the colours of European eyes.

    @ obsidian

    if blacks get high incomes through gov´ment jobs, they, like women on social services/non profit, are effectively receiving the wages of white men transfered to them through taxation.

    Like


  562. gig,

    Looking white became desirable in india after the 1800s.. wonder why?

    Ya.. it is about money.. if your economic system collapsed or you were not able to spend, you would be undesirable.

    Like


  563. Mandy! XD,

    incompetents who believe in their inherent superiority are still incompetent.

    Like


  564. on July 26, 2009 at 2:31 pm mandy been here a while

    o

    “Business World’s sauage is made, please do not attempt to tell me that there’s no such thing as an Old (White) Boy’s Network. ”

    It never applied to all whites. Lower class white were just as excluded as other races and religions. It was mostly an Upper class, WASP only thing.

    Do you ever consider that blacks who continue to hammer on about racism and past injustices as the cause of current problems are mimicking the feminists (or vice versa) an thus emasculating themselves?

    Like


  565. Gig,
    Bottomline: I for one am not comfortable w/a Fire Dept, Police Dept, Hospital staff, etc, et al, being all White in a largely Black or Hispanic city, neighborhood, etc. That may not matter to you, cool, but it does matter to ME.

    And I’m not alone. Now, the issue is how to achieve this in such a way as to create as little pain as possible for all parties concerned-but make no mistake here: Black folk simply will not countenence not seeing themselves represented-period. This is something Whites simply will have to accept.

    O

    Like


  566. Yea but obsid every add every website for major corporations has a minority in the pic and maybe a white guy. They are eventually gonna have to pull them out of homeless shelters to give them nursing jobs and office jobs.

    Like


  567. on July 26, 2009 at 2:55 pm mandy been here a while

    O

    Then are mostly white fire departments ok for white neighborhoods?

    It sounds like you are in favor of segregation. Is that correct?

    Like


  568. Obsidian,

    Whites still live in a dream world that never existed and cannot exist. However, their sense of self is so deeply linked to this make believe world that removing it will kill them.

    Let them keep walking down that road. Why do you want to stop them from committing suicide. Just egg them on..

    Reptiles were not possible without amphibians, mammal like reptiles and archosaurs could not have existed without reptiles. But no one says that reptiles owe one or should be grateful to amphibians, nor do the descendents of archosaurs and mammal like reptiles defer to reptiles.

    Each had it’s role in the continum of evolution, a process driven by randomness, synergies and possibilities. If you replace animal phyla with civilizations and cultures, you will see my
    point. Nobody is special, just lucky. However whites started associating their physical appearance and other crap with their luck.

    Just tell them to enjoy the ride into oblivion..

    Like


  569. Probably a good idea to have a racially/ethnically mixed staff (hospital, emergency services, police, etc) in racially/ethnically mixed areas – as a practical matter. As for the legalities, that’s another debate, one worth having.

    Affirmative action has regrettably undermined white confidence in black professionals: eg most of the black students I knew in law school were way below others in ability, and presumably are less competent lawyers now (if they ever passed the bar), and I would never let a black MD touch me or anyone I care about, knowing how AA has seriously watered down admissions standards to medical schools for blacks.

    As for the GOP attracting more blacks of only it can figure out how, what a load of crap. No matter what the GOP does, no matter how many Michael Steeles it can find, it will make NO difference. Blacks have figured out that the Democratic Party is a far superior vehicle for black ethnic/racial interests, period. And the Obama phenomenon has cemented this for a generation or two.

    Obama’s numbers are dropping like a rock now among whites, who have figured out they’re elected a less than competent race man (to be fair to Obama, he never pretended to be ‘post-racial’, that was all the MSM projecting onto him) – yet blacks still love him.

    Like


  570. Mandy B,
    No, I am not in favor of segregation. What I am in favor of is public servants reflecting the communities they serve at least to a degree.

    Also, please note that I nor anyone else Black here has “hammered on about past injustices”; indeed, I have merely responded to the thread’s subject matter, given my views and participating in the ensuing discussion. I don’t see how in so doing “emasculates” me or anyone else.

    Lastly, wrt lower class Whites and hiring in White businesses, that point was never in dispute; please do not attempt to divert attention away from my point, which is, that Whites need to be much more honest and judicious in the rationales they use for not hiring Blacks. If the argument is one of “qualifications” then by that standard a whole heck of a lot of White folks shouldn’t have a job either. Again, I know of what I speak. Better to simply say you don’t wanna hire Blacks no matter what than to make up a bunch of BS reasons that a 5 year old can see right through.

    Questions? Holla

    O

    Like


  571. Oh please Obsidian.

    So people should burn to death in major cities where Blacks and Hispanics are sizeable presences because quotas mandating Blacks and Hispanics produce incompetents?

    So people should die because quotas mandating Black and Hispanic doctors (most will be assuredly incompetent) produce deadly mistakes by people who should never have been admitted into Med school, never passed through, never passed through internship, or passing boards? Given the Black Pass and accepting lesser ability just to have a Black Doctor?

    You would not demand the NBA, which plays in many nearly all White areas, have mostly White players now would you? Or demand that the NFL have mostly White Wide Receivers, or D-lines, or running backs.

    Face it, there are not going to be many qualified: White NBA or NFL players, Black Firemen or Doctors.

    Black doctors currently make up according to the AMA, about 4% of all doctors. That’s about the qualified and interested doctors who are Black.

    Public policy doesn’t care if you are “comfortable” with incompetent buffoons in the Fire or Police Dept. Or if I’m happy with guys who can’t win in the NBA or NFL but are White. The public demands performance not quotas, not just on game day but every moment when lives are on the line.

    As far as the White insider network, please. Joe Average White guy has to be four times as good as the Asian/Indian H1B (who is a third cheaper) and Blacks hired in on mid-level firms are incompetent space-takers who are a dead-load carried for government bidding purposes only. There are very few White guys who went to Harvard, as opposed to Cal State Long Beach. Most insider nepotism is done by family firms hiring fellow relatives (and in SoCal that’s non-White immigrants).

    You’re seeing the start of the Pushback. Whites face hard times, are told to go to the back of the bus for hiring in favor of Blacks and Hispanics, and even White Women are starting to dump Obama in his rationing of care and the Carbon Police, with Affirmative Action incompetent doctors checking their mammogram and “green jobs” boondoggles creating massive new AA programs for which they are not allowed.

    AA race baiting is OK when government is small, doesn’t do much or touch much of the White majority’s lives, but a massive government expansion means AA has got to go, and Blacks get treated with no special favors (or bad treatment) ever.

    Choose one: AA or big government.

    Like


  572. Whiskey: Don’t enddorse all your points, but I heartily agree that working-class whites in America are facing some very hard times, between economic contraction and AA/racial policies, and story seas are coming, politically because of this. The first national politician who harnesses this anger will go very far.

    Like


  573. oh, speaking of Gates the scholar, Mark Steyn pointed out this beauty…

    “I confess I’ve been wary of taking Henry Louis Gates at his word ever since, almost two decades back, the literary scholar compared the lyrics of the rap group 2 Live Crew to those of the Bard of Avon. “It’s like Shakespeare’s ‘My love is like a red, red rose,’ ” he declared, authoritatively, to a court in Fort Lauderdale.
    As it happens, “My luv’s like a red, red rose” was written by Robbie Burns, a couple of centuries after Shakespeare. Oh, well. Sixteenth-century English playwright, 18th-century Scottish poet: What’s the diff? Evidently being within the same quarter-millennium and right general patch of the North-East Atlantic is close enough for a professor of English and Afro-American Studies appearing as an expert witness in a court case. Certainly no journalist reporting Gates’s testimony was boorish enough to point out the misattribution.”

    http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=OWU3NWRmYzY5MmZjOTZjN2NiYTMwOGI3ZTBiZDA5ZjM=

    Like


  574. obsidian:

    See, I have no problem w/White businesses refusing to hire Blacks because they’re “unqualified”-the problem I HAVE is when many of these same White businesses then turnaround and hire grossly unqualified White folks-and as one who knows what it is to run businesses, make payroll, and see how the Business World’s sauage is made, please do not attempt to tell me that there’s no such thing as an Old (White) Boy’s Network.

    do you have any stats or is this just your anecdotal experience?

    on the other hand, that blacks and hispanics are severely less competitive at the elite collegiate level (as measured by standardized test scores) is something that is easily backed up. see ‘shape of the river’ written by two ultra-liberals:

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0377/is_135/ai_54348518/

    Now, Doug, let’s keep something in mind here-polling indicates, that nearly half of all African Americans are at the least ambivalent toward Affirmative Action. Ergo, guys like you, and the GOP, could have potent allies. Let’s not alienate potential allies, hmm?

    ok, but the black masses seem to vote overwhelmingly democratic. this seems consistent with them solidly following what the black elite leaders want. the black elite strongly favor aa and other forms of welfare. what major black leader (who has a sizable black following) is against aa or welfare? i can’t think of any.

    Like


  575. Looking white became desirable in india after the 1800s

    Since 1800 BC, you mean?

    What I am in favor of is public servants reflecting the communities they serve at least to a degree

    what I am in favor is public servants being paid by taxes on exactly the same communities they serve

    Like


  576. ””””””’Esquire
    Whiskey: Don’t enddorse all your points, but I heartily agree that working-class whites in America are facing some very hard times, between economic contraction and AA/racial policies, and story seas are coming, politically because of this. The first national politician who harnesses this anger will go very far.”””””””’

    The first dictator to harness the anger will go far.

    Like


  577. The first dictator to harness the anger will go far.

    the first dictator will be the one who finally pushes whites too far. the second dictator will be the one following esquire´s prediction

    Like


  578. This L. Gates mini-drama bears a large resemblance to the false rape case at Duke 2006-7.
    In both cases the PC battalions saw what looked like an opportunity to inflict a teaching moment on the rest of us. When the facts came in, the only thing these cases validily symbolized were that small time DAs and their PDs can be infinitely corrupt and that yelling at a cop outside your house can eventually get you arrested no matter who you are. Any other comment about these cases depended on someone being willing to lie about what really happened. Unfortunately, there always seem to be enough of them. But praise be to electronic records. Gates and his crowd shut up and turned about face when threatened with an airing of the tape of his unhinged, intimidating raving at the cop in front of a crowd.
    What will cool the average persons ardor for AA is the public explanation of what has been done to MD qualifying exams. To get a decent % of AA admissions to pass, they have to be so easy that 100% of non-AA admits pass the first time.

    Like


  579. Mandy! XD, you stupid silly git, you do understand the part about “itching” as a joke, right? I’m not happy I rawdogged a hooker by accident, but she’s no dirtier than a whore like you.

    I go for regular testing anyway.

    Like


  580. on July 26, 2009 at 4:22 pm GNPs are for Apes

    Obsidian,

    You still have to answer the question that I posed, which you commited to answering. I answered your questions here, after which you committed to answering mine.

    The question is :

    Please provide the percentages in the 2008 Presidential election, for which whites voted for Obama vs. blacks voted for McCain.

    You committed to answering the question, over here.

    Like


  581. on July 26, 2009 at 4:32 pm GNPs are for Apes

    Obama’s numbers are dropping like a rock now among whites,

    Correction – Obama’s numbers are correcting among whites AND Asians AND Hispanics (at least the literate Hispanics).

    Obama’s approval rating among blacks is 97%. Among the other 89% of the US population, it is 42% or so, which is lower than Bush’s ever got among the 89% of Americans who are non-black.

    It would be supreme justice if Obama makes the GOP competitive with Hispanics and Asians again.

    Like


  582. Nothing is going to make the GOP very competitive among Hispanics, doubt Republicans can ever get more than 1/3 of Latino votes, given the demonization of the GOP in the MSM on issues such as immigration.

    As for Asians, too soon to tell, but some reasons for GOP optimism if Obama keeps it up.

    Like


  583. Here’s tying Game into this thread: how do you debate politics with women who are politically correct?

    My policy: don’t.

    But, say, I really can’t stand the latest piece of drivel their lovely little heads sing-song? I mean, how many times must cute girls I run into disqualify herself from my onanistic fantasies by uttering somethign reidiculous like “isn’t it wonderful how this last election was so historic?”

    I mean, ‘da FUCK!?

    OK, so I am just gonna smile mysteriously. But sometimes I really feel the need to shove a red pill between into that pretty mouth. Best way to do it?

    Not debating. It’s, like, looooserville. Instead, drop a stinkbomb.

    And there is an art to dropping stinkbombs. Done right, you smell like roses, but they are enwafted in a foulness that follows them as they walk, unable to shake the skunk off thier PC platitude. Done right, dropping a stinkbomb is like taking a dump into their Louis Vouitton.

    Roissy described a stinkbomb he once did. After some DC Chick glowed on about having just voted for 0bama, he said “voting is a waste of time.”

    I did something similar at a SWPL party I attended once. Some emptyheaded little cutie made a genuflection to The One’s name. And I said “he’s a puppet.”

    That’s it. Nothing else. And smiled sagely, looking at her with smoulderng sensuousness. She looked confused, tried to say “but. but…” to which I replied “puppet.” Again, with a smile.

    Another time, a chick said something about O’s healthcare plan. I said “you’ll probably lose some of the health benefits you have with your current plan. It will be a lot tougher for you.” Then I smiled. And left it at that.

    Any other stinkbomb ideas?

    Like


  584. on July 26, 2009 at 4:38 pm GNPs are for Apes

    What is funny is that blacks who became wealthy by being parasites on white tolerance (Gates, Wright, and Obama) still peddle their racism…

    Yet, have no idea that in the rest of the world, blacks are far more poorly regarded than by whites in America.

    In the continent of Asia, the belief that blacks are a half-way missing link between full-fledged humans and great Apes is a pretty mainstream concept. This is a widely believed evolutionary theory in the Arab world, India, and the Far East (places where virtually no blacks live), and is taught in many schools. There are museums with exhibits that show evolutionary progression with blacks as being the final step before the evolution modern man.

    So what are black people going to do about that?

    Like


  585. on July 26, 2009 at 4:41 pm GNPs are for Apes

    PA,

    Now that Obama has just a 41% approval rating among whites (and probably the same among Asians), you need to be far less restrained about this. Your distaste for Obama is no longer so rare as it was even 90 days ago.

    I assume, of course, that you are not seeking to Game black women (no one who has any other choices is).

    Like


  586. Views on blacks outside the white world are MUCH more racist, undoubtedly; even in un-PC places in the white world (Russia, for instance), electing Obama is viewed as an act of collective white insanity.

    As for girls and politics, best to avoid, since very few women are actually seriously informed in such matters (I have some male friends who are politically leftish but are smart and informed; I know zero female equivalents – for gals, it’s all about posturing).

    However, if you wish to hurl a memorable stinkbomb, nothing better than guns. I regularly call myself a “gun nut” among SWPLers to shock and horrify, to good effect; great way to ruin a cocktail party. Helps that I actually do own a small arsenal (hard to do this in DC). For some gals, the shock value of this is so overwhelming that they feel their vulvas going moist depsite themselves.

    If you really want to influence a gal politically (ie you like her on other grounds and it might be worth the trouble of moving her to non-stupid views over time), suggest a subtle approach with the occasional stinkbomb to show that you really are not kidding about your neanderthal views.

    This only works if you actually are informed about political matters and don’t come off as a dittohead or someone easily pariodied on Stewart/Leibowitz, Colbert, etc.

    Since my political views are very right wing but not “conserative” in the GOP sense, it’s easier to fake girls out by pointing out that I hate Bush too, etc (albeit for totally different reasons) — harder to do this if you are a party line Republican (in which case you need your head examined anyway).

    Like


  587. on July 26, 2009 at 4:54 pm GNPs are for Apes

    Esquire,

    The thing about women and politics, single women are about 70% left-wing (and the 30% are not are just young conservatives who fully intend to marry and be good women).

    But married women with kids are about 50/50, and thus not very different from men. Having a family causes a big swing in political views of women.

    Like


  588. Not inentionally going after married women here so the fact that they are much mroe conservative doesn’t help me much. 🙂

    In Blue America – which encompasses the coasts and most of the urban enclaves between – nearly all (90%) single women are “liberal”, most in an undefined sense; they want the mommy state and all that goes with it. There are exceptions, but not enough to talk about, really (I know some certified right-wing chicks, most are cracked; hearing about the wonderfulness of O’Reilly when you’re trying to get her skirt up is only slightly less tedious than the Cult of St Obama).

    If you are living in SWPL America, the pussy is on the Left, at least nominally.

    Like


  589. yeah, esquire, it’s disheartening to talk politics with chicks who actually, you know, make policy and realize they haven’t put any actual thought into it. “oh, we’re working on raising the minimum wage.” me, “well, what about the inflationary aspect of that move?” her “wait, what?”

    I like the stinkbomb idea. Debating is worthless, especially since SWPL get hostile when confronted with people who actually disagree with them.

    Like


  590. on July 26, 2009 at 5:09 pm GNPs are for Apes

    If you are living in SWPL America, the pussy is on the Left, at least nominally.

    On the ‘fashion’ left, not the committed, hardcore left. Most pretty girls are just about being fashionable, which is what their ‘political opinion’ is. pre-2000, before politics was fashionable, the same women just talked about TV or movies or whatever.

    Try this : Pretend to be a hardcore leftist with a woman who considers herself enlightened because she supports Obama. Go deep into the academics of Marx and Trotsky, and the key differences between Soviet communism and Maoism. She will bore of this conversation very quickly, even if apparently on the same side.

    The existence of a political opinion is itself merely a need to be fashionable.

    Like


  591. Yes and no. Concur that few young women have coherent, internally logical political views; for most, it is a fashionable posture, definitely. And getting into the ideological differences between Trotksy and Bukharin will turn off the pussy juices in five seconds flat.

    However, keep in mind that 20something women today have been subjected to PC agitprop their whole lives in school and media – this is especially true if she went to an elite university – and the fog of cliches passing for progressive views will be very thick. Years of deprogramming will be required if you actually want to shut off only the worst stupidity coming out of her mouth.

    Easiest way to shake her out of this is to fuck her well, good and hard, and then, once she’s used to getting fucked like an animal, discuss the uncomfortable biological (and therefore political) implications of her so enjoying, and squirting from, getting ridden hard by the top animal in the room.

    Like


  592. well, yeah, going inside baseball on either side of the aisle would be a snooze fest. Right of center girls rock, they’re just hard to find. And besides, this self-hatred towards GOP and right of center types (“oh, I am too cool to talk about Coulter or O’Reilly”) just pushes more people over to self-identify with the “cool” kids.

    Like


  593. “20something women today have been subjected to PC agitprop their whole lives in school and media”

    stinkbomb, well, I try to look beyond Jon Stewart for cues on how to think.

    Like


  594. If you are getting your talking points from Coulter and O’Reilly, you are no better than the legions of nimrods who hand on Stewart’s every word.

    There are right-wing girls out there, and some are incredible (plus the best fucks ever: nothing beats hot girls from a conservative, patriarchal culture, ie not here, for wanton fuckability), but many “conservative” girls in the USA are evangelicals and, aside from being dumb, are definitely not up for the three-hole-party I consider required by the third “date”.

    Like


  595. on July 26, 2009 at 5:49 pm GNPs are for Apes

    There is a lot of neg value on the airheaded political ‘views’ of single women.

    Something like :

    “You are opiniing about political science? That is sooo cute!”

    I do think that the values of her parents can match or exceed all the programming of a faggotty school and college. There are many women who went to such colleges and still have centrist or even right-wing views.

    The household trumps the school.

    Like


  596. I normally try to stay away from race and politics, but I’ll bite this time. It’s much easier to say that there should be no affirmative action when you’ve been raised in a relatively stable home, in a relatively stable neighborhood.

    I’m not excusing blacks and Hispanics for not performing up to par academically, but when you spend your youth with parents as drug addicts, fathers locked up, working just to be able to eat (I started working at the age of 10), and don’t have the same safety, resources, and parents to help you out, then it is very difficult to perform well in school.

    A lot of Caucasians act like we want to be in the circumstances that we’re in, they act like we want to be fuck ups, they act like we want to sell drugs, and they act like we want to go to prison. When all of your peers are drug dealers, and they pick fights with anyone attempting to do well in school, it’s very difficult to walk a straight line. And we sell drugs just to make things meet and have the things that a lot of Caucasians have by default.

    Now, I know that many white males are against affirmative action, but really don’t try to understand the effects of it in the long run. Of course, the first generation or two of people who benefit from it aren’t going to be on par with Caucasians, simply because most of those Caucasians didn’t have to go through the same gauntlet that most blacks and Hispanics went through when they were younger.

    However, what affirmative action does, is set up the next generation to perform well and on equal footing with their Caucasian counterparts. I have an aunt with degrees from Harvard and Yale, and another with a Ph.D from Ohio State, and if you look at their children, they perform MUCH better than what they could have when they were youths.

    All of you guys complaining need to stop being so selfish and think about what it means in the long term. It means less blacks and Hispanics needing government monetary assistance (less people needing welfare) in the following generations and a bigger tax base to draw from now that the beneficiaries of affirmative action have decent incomes.

    Like


  597. on July 26, 2009 at 6:16 pm mandy been here a while

    Gunslinger
    “The first dictator to harness the anger will go far.”

    Watch for Nick Griffin in the 2010 UK General election

    O

    Have you heard of Ken Shikwati? you might like what he says

    Like


  598. Sure maybe if they based it on income but there are poor white people too. Stop being selfish and learn to join the army.

    When the sign says you need a government job to be on top.

    Like


  599. Assanova, I disagree with your AA program helping blacks in the long run. It harms you in the long run. Like someone said, it casts doubt on the competence of black professionals.

    I take no satisfaction in saying that I would never let a black doctor anywhere near me. A genuinely competent black MD needn’t be angry with me. He needs to be angry with people who promote AA.

    What would help blacks in the log run is draconian disincentives against single motherhood.

    By the way, what someone just said about stinkbombs being like negs — that was brilliant. The point of a stinkbomb is not to blurt out somethign crude and un-PC (like, Loooooserville!) but to do it in such a way that creates a DHV for you and your un-PC opinion.

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  600. Whiskey,
    As I recall, the NBA, NFL and the Major Leagues, all of whom are largely private businesses, also discriminated against Blacks FOR DECADES in this country, until they were forced to allow Blacks in; Jackie Robinson’s entry into Major League Baseball started it all-but guess what:

    HE WASN’T THE BEST BLACK PLAYER IN BASEBALL.

    In fact, he was actually somthing of a benchwarmer in he Negro Leagues; other far and away better players, like Satchel Paige and Josh Gibson, wouldn’t allow themselves the indignity that Robinson, and later other nascent Black players, like Philles’ Dick Allen, or the Pirates’ Roberto Clemente, had to take. These Men felt that their skills on the diamond should speak well enough for them. As it turns out, things didn’t work that way.

    So, let’s not pretend like the major sports leagues were so altruistic, they weren’t; they saw that it was to their advantage to open it up to Black and Hispanic, etc, players and the rest as they say, is history, which is still being written-keep in mind that very few sports franchises are actually owned by Blacks, same deal wrt head coaching and general manager slots.

    Now, as for your other AA comments: here in Philly Black Fire Chief Hairston hasn’t lost lives due to fire incompetence, in fact, the single worst fire in recent Philly history at least, the MOVE conflagration, occured on Sambor’s watch-a WHITE Fire Chief. True, Wilson Goode, Philly’s first Black Mayor, was on the scene as well, but the point is made, Blacks certainly don’t have the lock on incompetence.

    And correct me if I’m wrong, but I didn’t put a specific number on representation…I simply noted the fact that employees of public services should broadly reflect the people whose charge it is they serve. That’s. It.

    Public policy isn’t concerned with mere “merit”, its concerned w/a multitude of things, which tunnel-vision folks like you and OneSTDV simply can’t or won’t get (by the way, have you watched The Wire yet, or are you still making excuses?). Get this Whiskey: it matters to people like me, to be able to walk into an ER and see docs and head nurses who look like me. It matters to see cops and EMTS and firefighters who look like me. Don’t get it twisted, I didn’t put a specific number on it, and no, I don’t accept that all Black anything=incompetent and all White anything=competent. Only a grossly naive or fiendishly disengenuous individual would attempt to frame things in such a way.

    Lastly, the White working class has been getting fucked over by their upper class betters for decades if not centuries in this country, that aint hardly the fault of Black or Brown folk. If they had as much balls as they like to think they do, they’d actually take the fight to those who actually matter and make the final decisions, instead of merely hatin’ on Darkies.

    Holla back

    O

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  601. ””””’Assanova,
    A lot of Caucasians act like we want to be in the circumstances that we’re in, they act like we want to be fuck ups, they act like we want to sell drugs, and they act like we want to go to prison.””””’

    The usual goal in committing crimes of murder for no reason is because the perpetrator wants to be dead.

    I came up with a solution instead of trying to keep people on the planet give them an easy way out. Government assisted, add campaign condoned suicide for any volunteers. Nice pleasant environment music movie and some pleasant gas to go to eternal sleep to.

    Like


  602. mandy been here a while

    not able to pull up much no link or I can’t access. Looks interesting from bits of info.

    Like


  603. AA does NOT primarily benefit poor blacks who actually need a boost. It mostly helps intelligent blacks who are going places anyway (the so-called Talented Tenth); blacks who get into the Ivy League on AA – I’m thinking here of both Mr & Mrs Obama – are people who would have gone to college anyway, now they get a free (or semi-free) ride at the best schools in the country. And AA does not get them off the guvmint dime, it just brings them in at a higher level (Mr & Mrs Obama, again, anyone?).

    Poor blacks could use a lot of help, in a lot of ways, and I’d support that; I’m not so hot on giving money and spots at Columbia and Harvard Law to the likes of Barack Hussein, who graduated from the Punahou School (if you don’t know HI, one of the best private schools in the country) – remind me about all the terrible descrimination he faced, please, I’m all ears.

    Bottom line: racism still exists in the country, on ALL sides, and poor blacks need help (also because they wear fucked-up clothes, talk and look like criminals, and have idiot named foisted on them), but the Obamas and their pal Gates are a perfect example of the moral depravity of what AA has wrought in this country.

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  604. PA–

    I take no satisfaction in saying that I would never let a black doctor anywhere near me. A genuinely competent black MD needn’t be angry with me. He needs to be angry with people who promote AA.

    What would help blacks in the log run is draconian disincentives against single motherhood.

    I agree.

    In fact given the way I was raised, it took an act of will for me to consciously decided that without special and unusual individual proof about the doctor in question, I feel the same way about black doctors. As Esquire points out, they have easier entrance requirements in getting into med school due to AA. They also have much lower rates of passing post med school qualifying exams than other ethnicities do. One doesn’t want to have a doctor that is much more likely to have just barely squeaked by standards that were often lowered so that “enough” blacks would.

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  605. You can certainly find some Blacks who will qualify for positions, objectively, as Astronauts, Navy Fighter Pilots, Firemen, policemen, senior supervisors of the same, and Doctors.

    There just won’t be that many of them.

    The reasons could be any number, my own favorite is the drastically changed sexual selection that favors nurturing personalities and inheritance for aggression, violence, and non-cooperation. You can see this at work in White Britain as well.

    Whites (and others) not only now face manifestly incompetents (equivalent to the Lakers replacing Kobe Bryant with say, John Daly because Daly is White) in life-threatening areas: Doctors, Nurses, Firemen, Police. They face economic restrictions as Government is the employer of only resort, directly or through contracting. This is why FDR deported every Mexican he could find (including doubtless some American citizens) and prevented Blacks from participating much in the New Deal.

    Hard Times plus economic spoils system = division of the pie according to racial strength. The current system of Blacks + Hispanics + White Women +( marginal numbers, Asians and Gays) = electoral victory is non-sustainable when White women care about some incompetent misdiagnosing their mammogram, and two year waits for breast cancer treatment. Let alone being shoved aside for more Black/Hispanic quotas in employment.

    Obama’s only strategic asset is the rich White female oriented Media. Katie Couric and the View and Chris Matthews.
    —————-
    I’ve always avoided politics, since my own are so right-wing. I’ve always tried to project the cynical “they’re all crooks, set one group to watch the other” attitude.

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  606. assanova:

    Of course, the first generation or two of people who benefit from it aren’t going to be on par with Caucasians, simply because most of those Caucasians didn’t have to go through the same gauntlet that most blacks and Hispanics went through when they were younger.

    assanova, if AA really does ‘close the racial gap’ for ensuing generations, i think most people would agree its end justifies its means. other than your own family, do you have any actual evidence of this ‘closing of the racial gap’ in academic performance?

    i strongly doubt such evidence exists. i’d love to be proven wrong, however.

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  607. obsidian:
    So, let’s not pretend like the major sports leagues were so altruistic, they weren’t; they saw that it was to their advantage to open it up to Black and Hispanic, etc, players and the rest as they say, is history, which is still being written-keep in mind that very few sports franchises are actually owned by Blacks, same deal wrt head coaching and general manager slots.

    you didn’t answer whiskey’s assertion. you just argued something he didn’t bring up and changed the goalposts of this debate.

    nobody reasonable is arguing there wasn’t serious discrimination in the past in these areas of sports. whiskey’s point was do we use AA in the present for major sports to bring about equality in outcome.

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  608. blockquotes needed.

    obsidian:

    So, let’s not pretend like the major sports leagues were so altruistic, they weren’t; they saw that it was to their advantage to open it up to Black and Hispanic, etc, players and the rest as they say, is history, which is still being written-keep in mind that very few sports franchises are actually owned by Blacks, same deal wrt head coaching and general manager slots.

    you didn’t answer whiskey’s assertion. you just argued something he didn’t bring up and changed the goalposts of this debate.

    nobody reasonable is arguing there wasn’t serious discrimination in the past in these areas of sports. whiskey’s point was do we use AA in the present for major sports to bring about equality in outcome.

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  609. ””Freak Show,
    nobody reasonable is arguing there wasn’t serious discrimination in the past in these areas of sports. whiskey’s point was do we use AA in the present for major sports to bring about equality in outcome.””””””

    Sports are what the future governement jobs are gonna look like. Almost 100 percent minority.

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  610. PA:
    “What would help blacks in the log run is draconian disincentives against single motherhood.”

    Great idea – but this would help society in general. Blacks are not the sole race perpetuating this downfall. OOW births are less a racial issue and more of a generational issue.

    @doug1 et al. re: black doctors
    Minorities may get through on lesser standards – that’s a downfall of the AA system. And all if not most governmental attempts to distribute opportunities have some flaws along with some advantages.

    But let’s also consider that for all the white professionals you see (of all fields), their version of AA is the good ‘ol boys network, and also the fact that, well, they’re white and benefit from their whiteness w/o the need of program measures. Do you think that all the white professionals are qualified for their jobs?

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  611. Assanova-

    All of you guys complaining need to stop being so selfish and think about what it means in the long term.

    There’s nothing whatsoever selfish about my opposition to AA. It never affected me. I was always above it’s reach by grades and esp. testing, and then performance. I’m against it for principled reasons.

    It means less blacks and Hispanics needing government monetary assistance (less people needing welfare) in the following generations and a bigger tax base to draw from now that the beneficiaries of affirmative action have decent incomes.

    there was a decent argument for affirmative action for blacks (but not women or Hispanics) when it was first instituted, a generation ago. The strongest argument was that it was important to create a sizable number of black role models rather than just a handful. There no longer is anywhere near so compelling an argument, and many compelling ones against it. Affirmative action should be ended.

    Those supporting, which is a decided minority of the country, about 30-35% by most polls and all that are worded neutrally and fairly, argue that black lagging educational attainment and incomes show that it’s still needed.

    That assumes that black IQ isn’t lower for largely genetic or other heritable reasons (home culture) but is instead entirely or almost entirely “environmental”. Due to the wealth of their parents per se for example rather than the fact that smart parents tend to make more money. Instead the evidence strongly shows that IQ is heavily genetically determined, at least if it isn’t greatly suppressed by terrible nutrition.

    It’s maybe 80% genetically determined in middle class and above children (which includes 3/4 of blacks these days) and 50-60% genetically determined in the poorest classes.

    It’s these middle class black kids (some of whom are upper middle class and even upper class), overwhelmingly, that are the beneficiaries of AA today.

    It should end. We should face facts. Blacks aren’t as smart as whites or Asians on average and that’s never going to change. They aren’t going to earns as much money on average in a technological society where most good jobs are done better with a higher amount of intelligence, at least up to a fairly high level (say 145). People are NOT born equal. Not in athletic ability, or attractiveness, or smarts. (BTW the Declaration of Independence did NOT mean anything different. What Jefferson and his editors meant was that all men are born with equal natural rights and dignity, rather than into different qualities such as aristocrat or freeman or serf, not that they are born with equal abilities. He believed in a natural aristocracy of ability in fact.)

    As well culture matters, specifically the mix of family micro culture and cultural influences on a learning child. It’s natural that good family values help and poor ones hurt. Two parent families help and single mom ones hurt, A LOT, all the evidence overwhelmingly shows. So rising can take a few generations.

    Of course there are other jobs where charisma and leadership matter much more, esp. once IQ is over a certain threshold. But outside of sports and entertainment that will often be about 115 for the higher paid jobs and a far higher percentage of whites than blacks make this cut. FAR higher percentage. About 16% of all whites have this or a higher IQ. Only about 2.3% of blacks do. (This sort of thing is easy to calculate for yourself using Excel’s normdist function.)

    To put statistics on the doctor choice issue, only 0.13% of blacks have an IQ over 30, compared to 2.3% of blacks. I don’t want any doctor with less than a 130 IQ coming near me. Sure there are black doctors with that IQ but alot with lower ones, due to AA in it’s various forms. Far fewer whites with lower ones I’d rather have one with an IQ of 140 or above. That comes it at .01% of blacks but .38% of whites. I.e. about 35 times as many whites, before you consider that there are 8x as may whites as blacks, so thare are 275x as many whites as blacks in America with IQs of 140 or above. When you consider that 4% of doctors in America are black, that’s more than a little alarming.

    There are most definitely brilliant blacks. Just less of them than whites or Asians, while AA can make it hard for clients to tell until it’s too late. Without AA that wouldn’t be true.

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  612. PA; Dreamer

    PA: What would help blacks in the log run is draconian disincentives against single motherhood.

    Dreamer: Great idea – but this would help society in general. Blacks are not the sole race perpetuating this downfall.

    I’ve got a great idea. End welfare and state madated child support for single mothers. You know, as in the old days. Add to that resumed media and other public scorn for them. You know, like in the old days. When the rates of single motherhood (and divorce) were vastly less. Those pre feminist,or at least heavily feminist, days.

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  613. dreamer:

    Do you think that all the white professionals are qualified for their jobs?

    i’ll start believing unqualified whites are hired in massive numbers when i start to see actual evidence that shows that whites are doing poorly on standardized tests relative to their financial attainment- as opposed to anecdotal data from one’s personal/family experiences.

    Blacks are not the sole race perpetuating this downfall. OOW births are less a racial issue and more of a generational issue.

    i agree that policy decisions for this issue don’t need to single any race out. however, oow births still severely disproportionately affect blacks (and to a lesser extent, latinas) compared to whites.

    on the issue of racism holding people back (to you and obisidian)-
    1) the bell curve has pretty strong data that shows that once you normalize for race, there is no statistical difference in income between blacks, whites and latinos. in fact, blacks and latinos actually earn a little more than white of the same iq (the difference was not statistically significant though).
    2) if racism holds certain groups back to such an extent, why are indian americans, jews and asian americans so successful from a median income or educational attainment standpoint- even relative to WASPs? why are there 1st and 2nd generation progeny, as well? why do groups like the hmong arrive in america relatively destitute and now show convergence to the american median income?

    on the issue of closing of the racial gap due to AA (for assanova)-
    1) abigail thernstrom and her husband showed the educational attainment for the children of high income blacks was actually (on average) lower than for the children of the lowest income whites. again, shouldn’t AA have shown a gap that closed or narrowed in ensuing generations?

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  614. doug:

    It’s these middle class black kids (some of whom are upper middle class and even upper class), overwhelmingly, that are the beneficiaries of AA today.

    very true. john mcwhorter covers this subject in detail in his books. the chief beneficiaries of AA at the elite collegiate level are middle/upper class NAM’s.

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  615. I agree that AA shouldn’t be based on race alone; anyone from low income upbringings should have the same AA opportunities, regardless of race. To those talking about blacks being dumber than Caucasians and Asians really need to read Outliers by Malcom Gladwell. He goes into the differences between intelligence with the races. What it comes down to is opportunity and family values; and he actually provides examples of what happens when low income kids are given opportunities to excel.

    I’m not sure about the details, but when someone becomes a doctor or lawyer or anything professional, isn’t there some kind of exam that one has to pass that certifies them as competent? If not, then that’s news to me.

    Someone asked about others second generation As beneficiaries doing better. I use to work for the local transit company and my boss was black. His son got straight A’s in a suburban high school and went off to play soccer for Harvard, I believe. I had an 8th grade history teacher that just got his Ph.D, and in class he would always talk about how his son never got a B (his son was in middle school at the time).

    My point is that the effects of AA are having an effect. It’s just that you aren’t seeing them over time, especially if you don’t really hang around people that are beneficiaries of AA.

    Like


  616. Dreamer–

    But let’s also consider that for all the white professionals you see (of all fields), their version of AA is the good ‘ol boys network, and also the fact that, well, they’re white and benefit from their whiteness w/o the need of program measures.

    There isn’t a “GOOD OLD BOYS NETWORK”. I should know. I’m in networks but not THE NETWORK. Instead their are myriad networks of friends and business acquaintances who try to help each other out. It’s partly honest evalution through personal experience and partly helping friends and allies out in a mutual aid fashion, or after a while as mentoring.

    These networks tend to be stronger, or work harder to help more remote acquaintances out, among minorities including Jews than they do majority whites. Though sure the more highly placed can be of more help. (Double plus for the strength of Jewish networks.) This was another justification for AA. It’s been going on for more than a generation.

    Though note, America’s other minority ethnicities didn’t need that help and have still made it, though not all to exactly the same degree. Irish, Jews, Italians, Poles, Chinese, Japanese etc. were all considered very alien and non American in their day and were all heavily discriminated against to begin with but all made it. Other groups are making it now though there’s a lot less discrimination now, such as Indians, Vietnamese, etc. Some other groups have lagged forever. Not only blacks but most ethnicities of American Hispanics (who tend to have peasant and often heavily indio origins).

    As for benefiting from our whiteness, that’s completely a leftist myth and is total horeshiite. It’s far easier to succeed at the highest levels in America today with the same IQ and cultural attitude towards hard work, (including people leadership and political skills), rather than being owed things, as a black or Hispanic than as a white male.

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  617. on July 26, 2009 at 8:03 pm mandy been here a while

    here gunny, you might like it. NicckGriffin is head of the BNP:

    http://www.savevid.com/video/bnp-brand-new-leather-jacket-asylum-song-for-united-kingdom.html

    Maybe he’ll want North America back in British hands ???

    Like


  618. ^AA beneficiaries, not “As”.

    Also, I saw that someone asked why black children of AA beneficiaries aren’t doing as well now on tests or whatever. And to that I say that it takes time. You can’t expect something like that to happen over night. Anyone knows that 1-2 generations simply isn’t enough, as the first generation still maintains that “ghettoness” and still haven’t developed the same values as their Caucasian counterparts.

    In his book “Outliers”, he goes over why Asians perform better than whites, and it all comes down to family values carried over. Bottom line? You just need to give blacks and Hispanics a couple of generations to fully assimilate with their counterparts. It’s not going to happen overnight. You can’t just expect people to get things perfect on the first go around; you will see gradual improvements over time.

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  619. Assanova

    I’m not sure about the details, but when someone becomes a doctor or lawyer or anything professional, isn’t there some kind of exam that one has to pass that certifies them as competent? If not, then that’s news to me.

    The effort is to have the exam be tough enough to certify them as barely competent, yes.

    Do you want a barely competent doctor?

    Far more blacks than whites or Asians have to take the med boards again and again to finally squeak by. The exams were dumbed down so that more NAMs would pass, apparently.

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  620. They dumb downed the exams because of race? News to me. anyhow, like I said before, it has a lot to do with the support structure and family values. I use to date Asian girls back in middle and high school, and I know that their parents are very strict about schooling from the very beginning, because they don’t want their family to look bad to the other Asian families. They’re always talking about their family reputation and honor.

    Caucasians in general are more lenient than Asians about schooling. And if you’re black or Hispanic? You are pretty much independent once you make it to middle school; hence why so many blacks and Hispanics drop out of school and/or end up in jail; there’s not a lot of support from the family and the parents don’t really pay attention to what their kids are doing in school.

    Either way, I don’t care who you are; I will always respect anyone that can make it through the horror of Organic Chemistry in college.

    Like


  621. Ending AA is just the flag issue on even handed treatment of the races.

    We should drop the whole message that blacks are “owed”. That’s terribly destructive to really reaching their potential. And they don’t.

    SAT scores of blacks actually over predict their performance in college. I.e. they do less well than their SATs (more or less IQ tests) predict. Higher drop out rates and lower grades. That’s despite higher black enrollment in gut majors like African American studies, where standards are much lower at many institutions. Priorities and cultural values are at work here.

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  622. There isn’t a “GOOD OLD BOYS NETWORK”. I should know. I’m in networks but not THE NETWORK.
    -doug1

    I’ve seen the GOB network for myself, socialized w/ members, watched them in action, observed, etc…. don’t think there’s any denying it exists. You’re not a member, ok, but I definitely know people who are…

    @Assanova
    I like your views re: improvement of races through generations.

    “To those talking about blacks being dumber than Caucasians and Asians really need to read Outliers by Malcom Gladwell. He goes into the differences between intelligence with the races. What it comes down to is opportunity and family values; and he actually provides examples of what happens when low income kids are given opportunities to excel.”

    – Agreed. Opportunity + family values, something that, largely owing to societal / historical factors, is problematic in the black community more so than in communities of other races.

    Like


  623. Whiskey
    — I’ve always tried to project the cynical “they’re all crooks, set one group to watch the other” attitude.

    Good call on avoiding politics with chicks. But a bad tactic. World-weariness and cynicism make you sound old and not exciting. A better option if you want to avoid the topic is to say “I’m not too much into politics.”

    Freakshow
    — if AA really does ‘close the racial gap’ for ensuing generations

    I don’t think it was ever intend to do so. Mencius once threw out a provocative thought that I think has some merit: the Brahmin ruling class wants AA in order to “diversify” every and all workplace.

    So that a bunch of conservative white guys — be it firemen or executives — aren’t left alone to talk all conservative an’ shit. Mencius compared this to the “walls have ears” Stasi system in old East Germany.

    Dreamer
    — Do you think that all the white professionals are qualified for their jobs?

    Some aren’t. I’m in the professional world, and I have never seen an incompetent white guy who got promoted, or one who didn’t end up fired or marginalized in his position.

    “Good old boys network” surely isn’t 100% blindly meritorious… but there is an edge to collaboratingn with people you see eye to eye with and trust. Like same-frat/college alumni, etc. But even in such networks, at higher levels, these guys are very smart and competent. They wopuldn’t be in that “GOB” network otherwise.

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  624. PS. Dreamer – are you a white chick? if so, your constant anti-white-guy comments are a very unattractive quality. Just sayin’, if you also do this in real life.

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  625. ””””’PA,
    So that a bunch of conservative white guys — be it firemen or executives — aren’t left alone to talk all conservative an’ shit. Mencius compared this to the “walls have ears” Stasi system in old East Germany.””””’

    I am leading the fight on that though. I say what the fuck is up but I am last man standing lol

    Like


  626. Getting masters you got to cut her slack lol

    Like


  627. Also, regarding the Jews, Italians, Chinese etc. doing so well, so fast; I’d like to point out that when they came over, they still had their family values and heritage to draw from. I can’t explain Hispanics, but if you look at blacks, almost all of them have no idea what their old culture/values were like from their native countries.

    If you were to take a Chinese person, and place them anywhere in the world, then I’m pretty sure they would reach their maximum potential because they know where they came from and what values to emphasize. Black people didn’t have that advantage. Almost all of the Asians that came over carried their strict values about family honor and schooling.

    Like


  628. on July 26, 2009 at 8:40 pm GNPs are for Apes

    Obsidian,

    You still have to answer the question that you committed to answering.

    Here is a clue, the inability to follow through on promised obligations could have something to do with the extreme economic failure of black people, everywhere on Earth.

    Like


  629. on July 26, 2009 at 8:43 pm GNPs are for Apes

    but if you look at blacks, almost all of them have no idea what their old culture/values were like from their native countries.

    Yes. And this is the biggest favor that the white man ever did for blacks.

    Have you seen the state of black people in Africa? That is the outcome of their old culture/values (if any).

    Getting them detached from that barbarism and dysfunction was precisely what would have helped them prosper in the long run. Unfortunately, they clearly have not abandoned their African barbarism.

    Like


  630. Dreamer

    I’ve seen the GOB network for myself, socialized w/ members, watched them in action, observed, etc…. don’t think there’s any denying it exists. You’re not a member, ok, but I definitely know people who are…

    I call bullshiite Dreamer.

    You are talking completely through you hat.

    In fact fabricating and exaggerating to suit your black ideology.

    There are networks at all kinds of different levels. There isn’t just one network. There are high level NYC I banker networks which also have very high level political connections in both parties, there are Hollywood networks with those connections, and doctor networks, CEO networks in related business areas, other high level business executive networks, and many other networks. There’s the Davos level networking that goes on as well, and that’s the reason for it’s existence.

    No Dreamer, there isn’t THE NETWORK and you haven’t socialized within it. I have/do participate in high level networks. You don’t. You got spun some flash, or drew wrong conclusions from limited glimpses.

    As well since you’re a black female, how do you get to socialize in THE white ol’boy network you’re making up? The one that excludes women and minorities?

    Like


  631. on July 26, 2009 at 8:50 pm GNPs are for Apes

    I second the BS call on ‘dreamer’ (an apt name, BTW).

    The ‘Network’ she claims to have seen is a television network.

    Yes, a television network.

    This is yet another example of women not being able to distinguish television from reality.

    Like


  632. Assanova–

    “To those talking about blacks being dumber than Caucasians and Asians really need to read Outliers by Malcom Gladwell.

    Gladwell writes well. He also writes glib, low content, junk food. Middle brow at best.

    Like


  633. Assanova–

    Either way, I don’t care who you are; I will always respect anyone that can make it through the horror of Organic Chemistry in college.

    Fine. If that’s good enough for you, you go to black doctors.

    I won’t, not without unusual demonstration of outstanding individual performance that I can believe, rather than that which is probably falsified by AA in it’s many forms.

    Like


  634. PA–

    PS. Dreamer – are you a white chick?

    No, she’s black.

    Like


  635. Question for Rum: what’s the most difficult hurdle to clear, in terms of serving as a proxy for future competence as a doctor?

    – good pre-med grades
    – high MCAT
    – med school grades
    – making it through residency
    – passing a state medical license exam

    Like


  636. Dreamer

    You never said what you thought of this idea, by way of the punishing provisions you agreed with PA were necessary to impose on single moms to get them not to be, but pointed out (rightly) that this would help all races:

    I’ve got a[n] idea. End welfare and state madated child support for single mothers. You know, as in the old days. Add to that resumed media and other public scorn for them. You know, like in the old days. When the rates of single motherhood (and divorce) were vastly less.

    What say you Dreamer?

    Like


  637. ””””””’Assanova
    I agree that AA shouldn’t be based on race alone; anyone from low income upbringings should have the same AA opportunities, regardless of race. ””””””””’

    What they need to do is teach in school things that are usefull in real life. Plus encourage low income into the trades. Shit I wish I would have went mechanic, electrician, anything other than just high school graduate.

    Teach things like there are places anyone can go funded by the governement where you can get all kinds of information free on starting and succeeding in a small business.

    Give out loans to anyone who wants to improve something.

    Like


  638. Imagine if I would have taken 4 years of carpentry well when the time comes I would be able to build my own resteraunt. As it is now I will have to learn. It will be fun but what if you can aquire these types of skills in addition to regular schoolwork.

    Like


  639. Being able to fix a vehicle game me a sense of pride. Being able to send in repedative reports. Does not.

    Like


  640. @gig re European eyes:

    I could see how that might be odd to people who normally don’t see blue or green eyes. Or have never seen them.

    @lurker:

    “Mandy! XD, you stupid silly git, you do understand the part about “itching” as a joke, right?”
    Wait, you’re the joke? Must be because I was laughing at you.
    “I’m not happy I rawdogged a hooker by accident, but she’s no dirtier than a whore like you.”
    Hmmm…let’s see…

    vir·gin (vûrjn)
    n.
    1. A person who has not experienced sexual intercourse.
    2. A chaste or unmarried woman; a maiden.
    3. An unmarried woman who has taken religious vows of chastity.
    4. Virgin The Virgin Mary.
    5. Zoology A female insect or other arthropod that produces fertile eggs without copulating.
    adj.
    1. Of, relating to, or being a virgin; chaste.
    2. Being in a pure or natural state; unsullied: virgin snow.
    3. Unused, uncultivated, or unexplored: virgin territory.
    4. Existing in native or raw form; not processed or refined.
    5. Happening for the first time; initial.
    6. Obtained directly from the first pressing: virgin olive oil.
    7. Zoology Producing fertile eggs without copulating.

    “I go for regular testing anyway.”
    No one cares.

    @PA, etc. about PC girls and Obama:

    I don’t know how effective this will be, but you could always ask,”So, what prompted you to vote for him? You know, besides Health Care and his race? Please don’t say change.”

    Something along those lines. Masculinize it.

    Like


  641. @Gunslingergregi:

    There are a lot of public schools that offer those programs; unfortunately, most high schools that do are magnet schools and only accept students on an application basis, and in some instances, through a lottery system.

    Like


  642. assanova:

    My point is that the effects of AA are having an effect. It’s just that you aren’t seeing them over time, especially if you don’t really hang around people that are beneficiaries of AA.

    your point really is that you’ve got some personal anecdotes that AA is having an effect. it goes against other data, like the thernstrom’s study of sat scores among various income groups and races, that suggests that the racial gap in education is not closing.

    that said, even if AA is having a positive effect on blacks/latinos, it needs to be weighed against the corrosive effect it has on the meritocratic system.

    Also, regarding the Jews, Italians, Chinese etc. doing so well, so fast; I’d like to point out that when they came over, they still had their family values and heritage to draw from. I can’t explain Hispanics, but if you look at blacks, almost all of them have no idea what their old culture/values were like from their native countries.

    1) as you said, this doesn’t really explain latinos. 2) it also doesn’t explain the black- white IQ gap’s persistence on the international level. 3) it doesn’t explain black IQ’s in white households where they’ve been adopted into at a young age. 4) moreover, are you really suggesting that even middle/upper class american blacks truly still don’t have cultures that are conducive to educational attainment?

    it would seem that if the children from middle/upper class black groups don’t come from cultures that allow the closing of the racial gap in education or IQ, there is little reason (at this point) to believe it will ever close without genetic engineering to rectify probable cognitive inequities.

    Like


  643. on July 26, 2009 at 9:59 pm GNPs are for Apes

    You never said what you thought of this idea,

    Black people don’t answer questions that would reveal their prejudices to be unsupported by facts and logic. Obese-dian proved this earlier, as dreamer also is.

    The lack of integrity that this shows is part of why black people will always underperform economically.

    Like


  644. @GNP- get your facts str8, blks shipped to America were 13% of slaves brought into the new world. Btw, your obsession with blks is well noted and pathetic.

    Lurker

    I’m not happy I rawdogged a hooker by accident, but she’s no dirtier than a whore like you.

    *walks over and back hands lurker pimp whose ho gave him short money *
    *shakes luker until his head snapes back*

    You know I don’t care for your ugly side but human being to human being, this is the dumbest thing(besides have an 18hr agrument with mandy & race stuff ) that you’ve done. You need to go the emergency room immediately and ask for anti virals because you’ve possibly been exposed to HIV.

    Mandy! XD
    Lucifer, I’ve figured out Willard’s name.
    William+retard= Willard.

    *DEAD FAINT*
    OMG mandy, you’re a doll.

    Like


  645. on July 26, 2009 at 10:17 pm Willard Libby

    chic noir

    @GNP- get your facts str8, blks shipped to America were 13% of slaves brought into the new world.

    I think the number is more like 5%.

    OMG mandy, you’re a doll.

    Weeeeeeeeeeee, Girl Power!

    Ditzbag.

    Like


  646. on July 26, 2009 at 10:20 pm GNPs are for Apes

    Ditz Noir,

    They were only 5%. Read a book for once, or is the fact that the pages in the book are made of paper that is WHITE mean the book is racist and must not be read?

    Furthermore, you don’t seem to care about the other 95%, do you?

    Like


  647. no willard, the number is 13%. Storefront is not an accurate source.

    Weeeeeeeeeeee, Girl Power!

    Ditzbag.
    From you this is a hug. I know you missed c. noir’s presence.

    Like


  648. I know you missed c. noir’s presence.

    I kinda did. Now go get David Alexander out of his masturbatorium. I kinda miss him too.

    Like


  649. Apeman,
    Honestly, I couldn’t care less what any Asian, here or abroad, thought of me or Black folk in general, especially since I can easily point to the fact that Asians from Japan and China, Korea to Thailand LOVE Michael Jackson, Oprah Winfrey, Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Chris Tucker and Chris Rock, Beyonce’ Jay-Z, etc et al. Its a very well known fact that Asian kids both here and there wanna be like Black kids and emulate our styles.

    So, as per usual, your point is another non-sequitur.

    Next (hopefully on point) question?

    O

    Like


  650. The rawness tried to make fun. Turned that shit around kinda sad really when someone acts better but yet is worse.

    Like


  651. DA Chic Noir missing at same time. Both live in NYC coincidense I think not.

    Like


  652. Obsidian, if Vanilla Ice died instead of Michael Jackson earlier this month, would I still see vendors all over DC selling Vanilla Ice T-shirts to black kids like they have been selling MJ’s?

    Like


  653. @ChicNoir:

    “*DEAD FAINT*
    OMG mandy, you’re a doll.”

    :3

    Thank yous.

    WillardLibby pretends to be angry about it, but he secretly likes the female attention.

    Sssshhhh don’t tell him.

    @PA:

    “I kinda did. Now go get David Alexander out of his masturbatorium. I kinda miss him too.”
    This prompted some really bad images in my head. ;-;

    Like


  654. Its a very well known fact that Asian kids both here and there wanna be like Black kids and emulate our styles.

    They like “black styles” (probably to annoy their parents).

    They detest actual blacks.

    Like


  655. on July 26, 2009 at 11:30 pm GNPs are for Apes

    Obese-dian,

    You are still dodging the simple question that you committed to answer. I know that keeping their word means nothing to black people, but you should be better than that.

    The question is :

    In the 2008 POTUS election, what percentage of whites voted for Obama, and what percentage of whites voted for Obama.

    Just post the percentages here, which you can find with a tiny bit of Googling. A very simple task.

    Show that you have the courage of a man, and answer.

    Like


  656. on July 26, 2009 at 11:30 pm Willard Libby

    chic noir

    no willard, the number is 13%. Storefront is not an accurate source.

    Estimate of black slaves brought to the New World = 10 million.

    Estimate of black slaves brought to North America = 500,000

    % of total = 5%

    Or –

    Estimate of black slaves brought to the New World = 10.5 million.

    Estimate of black slaves brought to North America = 645,000

    % 0f the total = 6.15%

    Now go back to milking your goats, Ethiopian airhead.

    Like


  657. on July 26, 2009 at 11:33 pm GNPs are for Apes

    Obese-dian,

    I can easily point to the fact that Asians from Japan and China, Korea to Thailand LOVE Michael Jackson, Oprah Winfrey, Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Chris Tucker and Chris Rock, Beyonce’ Jay-Z, etc

    Children over the world also love Jumbo the elephant, Koko the Gorilla, Knut the Polar Bear, Bubbles the chimpanzee, and Keiko the Orca. What is your point?

    You have absolutely not disproved the fact that Arabs, Indians, and Chinese actually have textbooks and museums that show black people as the final proto-human step before the emergence of the modern man. Museums in Tehran, Delhi, and Shanghai have such exhibits.

    So what are you going to do about that? How will you blame whitey?

    Like


  658. on July 26, 2009 at 11:35 pm GNPs are for Apes

    Sorry, the question is :

    In the 2008 POTUS election, what percentage of blacks voted for McCain, and what percentage of whites voted for Obama?

    That is the question, Obsidian. You committed to answer it. Now show that you are better than other black people and follow through on your commitment.

    Like


  659. PA

    In the US, Canada, European systems with which I am familiar the hardest step, by far, for most people, is getting accepted to Med School in the first place. Spots are limited, lots of resources are expended, and there is an assumption that many kids are left out who could have done the work – so, once someone is in a spot, every effort is made to get each one to finish.
    MCAT and grades are looked as a package. Great GPA with hard courses in a recognized undergrad school gives one some leeway in MCAT scores. But good scores usually go along with that as well. A lot of attention is paid to an applicants demonstrated ability to make good grades while taking 15+ semester hours of non-BS courses. Finishing ones undergrads degree in 4 years looks way better than 5. Longer than five is a huge question mark.
    Failing the first year will result in a chance to repeat the year in most cases. That is not really generosity on the schools part. The 1st year of med school is a miserable grind for 90+ % of the students. It would be like West Point letting someone repeat their Plebe year. Any kid willing to do so is proving his or her gonadal fortitude.
    State Licensing Exams vary by state. There multiple National Board Exams that serve to rank you for competition for residencies. Many states use the Natiional Bds and set cut offs for licensure
    In most specialties, there are extended written and oral exams to qualify for ” Board Certification” at the end of 4-7 years of residency. This is where nuts are cut. Typically 20-30% failure rate for each part. You get 3 tries then its back to repeat a year of residency.
    The results of these tests MATTER. No one sleeps well beforehand.

    Like


  660. http://www.firefightingnews.com/article-US.cfm?articleID=67708

    ””””””””’In 2008, the 2nd Circuit affirmed Arterton’s decision, and Torre petitioned the Supreme Court to take the case. When the petition was filed, a well-known law firm with 12 offices in the Unites States, Europe and Asia agreed to take the case for the city without compensation.

    “The city has benefited from the pro bono assistance provided by the law firm WilmerHale before the United States Supreme Court,” said Joseph. ””””””””””

    Update what the firefighters are up against.

    Like


  661. Maybe try focusing on free schooling for everyone for whatever. At least if people are going to school probably not doing harm to society. Then won’t be in the dangerzone from 18 to 21.

    Like


  662. Assanova–

    If you were to take a Chinese person, and place them anywhere in the world, then I’m pretty sure they would reach their maximum potential because they know where they came from and what values to emphasize. Black people didn’t have that advantage. Almost all of the Asians that came over carried their strict values about family honor and schooling.

    The main reason black people don’t have that advantage is because they can’t point to much genuine high black civilizational achievement. No Egypt wasn’t predominantly or elite black during any of it’s high phases, though it was briefly black Nubian ruled in a low civilizational and way past it’s glory phase. It emerged again under Greek rule and their establishment of the world leading intellectual city of Alexandria.

    Like


  663. Has anyone else noticed a slightly more antagonistic tone from Obsidian in this thread?

    He’s starting to rant a little and his “whitey racism” narrative is starting to poke through.

    I had thought he was better than that, maybe I was mistaken.

    Like


  664. on July 27, 2009 at 12:33 am mandy been here a while

    http://www.badeagle.com/

    American Indian view of these shenanigans.

    Like


  665. Let’s not kid ourselves. Most of China is poor, illiterate, dysfunctional (ask Singapore’s founder Lee Kwan Yew about Chinese sanitary habits — having been in China I can attest they are appalling) at best. Only a thin coastal elite emigrated, and they had family connections back home.

    You could take the dirt poor peasants of Sichuan or Central China, and they would not compare favorably to the hillbillies of Appalachia and probably those of Chiapas.

    As for the “Network” that’s a ridiculous statement. Hollywood is rife with complaints about: Scientologists, Harvard Writers, Gays, and Ivy League stuff. Actors complain about Scientologists and Gays who favor their own. Writers complain about the Ivy League Mafia (Simpsons and Conan’s show are almost entirely Harvard Lampoon grads, and most of the writers for Fox, NBC, and ABC shows are Ivy League grads, the dominance of Bruckheimer on CBS mitigates that somewhat).

    Nevertheless, my point still stands. Affirmative Action is only politically supportable when it does not impact daily lives of the majority White population and produce unbearable pain.

    The requirement in TARP to produce quotas for Black and Hispanic Doctors will require dumbing down the MCAT and Med School exams and Boards that all but the most stupid can pass to get enough Black and Hispanic doctors. There just are not that many high-IQ, non-criminal, studious and disciplined Black and Hispanic men to increase the numbers enough to meet the quotas. Which means in effect separate, easy tests for Black and Hispanic doctors, nearly all of whom will be deadly incompetents.

    That’s not supportable. No White Women wants to die of Breast Cancer because her incompetent Black Radiologist read the x-rays and MRI scans wrong. Which is exactly what Obama proposes along with rationing and year plus wait times.

    As for WHY? there are so few intelligent, disciplined, and non-criminal Black and Hispanic guys? Duh. Sexual selection. As long as Lauren London sets the tone (google her “Lauren London Thugs” quote — short version she loves thugs and killers) then that’s exactly what most Black and Hispanic guys will do their level best to turn into. The same thing happened in White Britain. Home of the Chav. Thugs make poor doctors, all in all.

    PA good point on the cynicism. I’ve said that as my standard line since I was 16. Time to change it up I suppose. Old habits die hard I guess.

    Like


  666. whiskey,

    You are going to be disappointed by the future, but cognitive dissonance cannot be cured. It is your choice.

    So tell me, when things do not work out as you would like them.. what are you going to do?

    PS- Do you really believe that IQ or cleverness are the same as intelligence. If the people who went to ivy leagues were truly intelligent, the world would be a much better place.

    But they are just trained monkeys who are well positioned for playing games to reach the ‘top’… that is all. Intelligence is a different thing altogether and I doubt that you would know it even if you saw it.

    If you believe that famous universities in the west produce intelligent people, why did every almost every major innovation come from people who were in non-famous universities. Even worse, established monkeys in these ‘famous’ universities tried to block/ discredit/ ignore these innovations. Why?

    Do not confuse social clubs with places of learning!

    Like


  667. You know, I just knew it wouldn’t be long until the IQ argument was unfurled, so let’s get guys like Doug (who as I recall, never really responded to my points):

    If indeed the vast majority of Blacks, regardless of income etc, simply aren’t as smart, and by extension, as qualified as Whites and Asians, what should we do w/them? Since all people aren’t born equal, no matter what they do, only logic would dictate that we have a kind of de facto Jim Crowism, right? Afterall, the supposed inherent inferiority of Blacks was at the heart of the Jim Crow argument. I mean, if we’re gonna shatter “pretty lies” why not simply come out with it?

    The only way the Thomas Jefferson (quite interesting, in light of his own actions in life, hmm?) argument works, is if you essentially have a two-tiered system, one for Whites and honorary Whites, which basically means Asians, and another for Blacks. I’m excluding Hispanics here because their legal status is in question; not so for African Americans, unless you wanna take the inherent inferiority argument another logical step further and repeal the 14th Amendment enmasse.

    So-anyone up for revoking my American citizenship-since, I cannot possibly be as smart as any of you White people here?

    And if you do agree with such a premise, how do you then square the fact that for so long, Whites were completely cool w/having clearly inferior people raise their kids, builnd their houses and other buildings, tend their crops and fight in their wars? For all of Jefferson’s flowery talk, he certainly didn’t have any problem gettin’ it in-literally-w/a purportedly inferior Woman-right?

    And you see, that’s yet another reason why so many Blacks harbor negative views of Whites, because you simply won’t come out and do the damn thing-you believe that Jim Crow was useful and good, because it kept Blacks in their rightful place-below Whites. If you honestly believe that Black folk are inherently less intelligent than Whites and Asians, there is no other conclusion to arrive at.

    Of course, this argument begins to breakdown when Asians clearly outclass Whites on most tests and by extension elite college admissions, etc. Hmm.

    More in a sec.

    O

    Like


  668. OneSTDV,
    “Antagonistic”? I think I’ve proven myself to be far and away one of the more cordial, respectful, respectable and reasonabl voices in this forum, you possibly included.

    I don’t hate “Whitey”. Never have. I do on the other hand have an intense dislike for some of the underhanded things some Whites do. Please see my earlier remarks above, which speaks to this, the Jim Crow argument, which is in essence, what you’re arguing for, One. You’re just not Man enough to say it.

    Apeman’s comments are indeed humorous, just not in the ways he intended.

    O

    Like


  669. Apeman,
    Again, I couldn’t care less what Asians or Indians think of me or Blck folks in general. So what? Not my problem, nor is it the problem of any African American really. It doesn’t affect my life one way or another, they are free to think and believe anything they want.

    *shrug*

    That said, what I noted about the overwhelming popularity of Blacks in these lands is something YOU have failed to address, Apeman. If what you said is true, how then do you explain what I said? I’ll be awaiting your answer.

    As for McCain’s vote totals among Blacks, that answer is easy, virtually none. Why? Well, several reasons, but the most important was that Blck folks wanted to support one of their own. Last time I heard, that wasn’t against the law.

    The.

    End.

    Barack Hussein Obama Jr is indeed your President, Apeman. Get used to it.

    O

    Like</