Why I Date Younger Girls

Clarification: 
*By younger, I mean 5+ years younger than me and legal.  Pervs.
*By older, I mean closer to my age (not more than 4 years younger) and up.

Younger
Met a girl for a date at a county park.  She had arrived first and was sitting on a swing.  I pushed the swing before either of us exchanged any words.  She wheee-ed with joy.  I then chased her around parked cars in the parking lot.

Older
Asked a girl to meet me at the park for frisbee.  She declined, saying she didn’t want to step in dog poop.

Younger
Made out passionately with her and digitally aroused her under a streetlamp at 4AM.

Older
She told me “could you please close the blinds before we start?” when we were about to have sex.

Younger
Talked about double-headed dildos.

Older
Talked about the housing market.

Younger
Ordered a beer.  And then another.  And another.  And another.

Older
Returned the hummus because it wasn’t the right consistency.

Younger
Squealed happily with faux indignation when I called her a brat.

Older
Got seriously offended when I called her a brat.

Younger
Was completely open to visiting new places and trying novel things on dates.

Older
Had to be home by 11 for a big meeting the next morning.

Younger
Multi-orgasmic.

Older
Artificial lubrication required.

Younger
Firm, smooth flesh.  Naturally moistened lips.  Excellent buttock musculature.

Older
Spongy, chemically exfoliated flesh.  Addicted to chapstick.  Buttocks showing signs of weariness.

Younger
Loves spontaneously.

Older
Rations her emotions.

Younger women… it’s my only weakness.





Comments


  1. Dude meeting for a date at the county park… swing set?

    Nope this post did not make you sound like a pedophile whatsoever? I’m going to back away now before that dude from To Catch a Predator comes out from the kitchen and asks me what I’m doing here with the pizza, lube, and box of condoms.

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  2. haha. not that young.

    it was off hours. no kids around. i recommend swing sets and slides for enhancing the playful romantic mood.

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  3. That’s because an older woman dating looks like a fish attempting to ride a bicycle.

    Older women ought to be raising teenagers – not dating. Agnostic wrote a good piece on that a few months ago.

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  4. This is not a difference between older and younger it’s the difference between women who have a stick up their ass and women who don’t. Age has nothing to do with it.

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  5. VK, you beat me to that post! I was thinking the same thing.

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  6. Is this older than you vs. younger than you? Or younger than you and much younger than you?

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  7. jo – the correlation between stick-up-assness and advanced age is strong.

    freck – near my age vs. 5 to 15 years younger than me.

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  8. 5-15 yrs younger (cradle snatcher) ? how old are you?

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  9. If he’s starting with 18 year olds, he’s probably in his early 30s; he sounds it too (I am in my mid 30s, and can relate to R’s general point of view and attitude.)

    I’ve only met one man over forty who comes across as someone who could get a hot, non-druggie 18-20 y.o.

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  10. If he’s starting with 18 year olds

    hawaii is more than a vacation destination.

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  11. Where I live age of consent is 14. You can’t beat that.

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  12. Dude, I’m amazed you put up with such women. Most of the 18-21 year old women that I meet are retarded, immature, and just silly.

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  13. PA, if older women look silly dating because they ought to be raising teenagers, what about “older” men (starting at Roissy’s age, assuming he’s in his early 30s)? The idea of a man of 30-35 chasing a 22-year-old around a playground after dark strikes me as an equally fish-on-a-bicycle moment.

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  14. I know the older ones have alot more issues, but what about the games and the emotional confusion?

    I suppose the older women I think about that are mature and sensible are cougar territory for you, and not appealing.

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  15. Older women ought to be raising teenagers – not dating. Agnostic wrote a good piece on that a few months ago.

    I’d rather have a mature older 8 than a stupid, retarded young 6. Hot cougars can win any day of the week. 🙂

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  16. alias clio
    PA, if older women look silly dating because they ought to be raising teenagers, what about “older” men (starting at Roissy’s age, assuming he’s in his early 30s)? The idea of a man of 30-35 chasing a 22-year-old around a playground after dark strikes me as an equally fish-on-a-bicycle moment.

    Actually, not at all. The perfect woman for a man is around ten years younger. Where I live most 30 year old men who look for a wife date 18 to 22 years old. They date young women, who are still in their bonding years whom they can marry and have children. It is only the US who expects young men to marry perimenopausal women and raise their offspring from another men. And the US is propagating this feminist man hating doctrine who their succesful media.

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  17. Again, where you live is a magical barely second world candy land where after high school, women have no options and have no choice except to marry the 30 year old with cash and be loyal to him lest he divorce her and she starves on the street hoping to save her. In the United States, women have options, in piss-poor low-IQ barely out of a dictatorship Latin America, women have no options.

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  18. Actually, my country has a GDP of around 10.000 US and living costs are maybe at around 60% of US value, so my country is not as poor as you think. Second, my millieu (social environment) is high middle class, so I’m talking about educated, smart privileged goodlooking college girls who are dating young 30 year old professionals, not some peasants daughter. Really, if you want to date younger women the US is the worst palce on earth, in wesetrn europe (I have lived in germany) you can also date younger women. And finally, I wouldn’t talk so much about IQ if I belonged to a race which has by far on average the lowest. Latinamerica is a very diverse continent, with parts that are poor but also parts that are on a west european standard, and is lightyears away from Africa, a contiment with no near and not even a distant future.

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  19. Where I live most 30 year old men who look for a wife date 18 to 22 years old.

    What with the way men age quicker than women, there’s a good chance that one of these women will find herself in her early to mid-50’s, still young and vigorous, and stuck with a senile, impotent, and probably incontinent feeble old man for a husband.

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  20. Hey, Peter, not to mention that men die earlier than women almost everywhere in the world. An older husband, esp. one whose only “alpha” quality is the Roissy-defined one of being able to seduce lots of “hot” women – whose income, looks, leadership etc. are not especially impressive – is not much of a bargain.

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  21. What with the way men age quicker than women
    That depends on how you look on it. Men, in fact die earlier than women. But, on the other hand, men die younger because they maintain their strength and vigour much longer than women, and also because they do much more hazardous work.. Marriage and partnership is about children, and here men have a huge advantage over women. Which couple will be more succesful do you think in producing children,
    20 y female with 30 y male OR 20 y male with 30 y female. The asnwer is obvious. I tend do believe that men in fact keep their youth much longer than women, but face a steep decline in old age, where a woman’s youth is extremely short, is lost at around 30 but then gradually ages to raise her children and grandchildren.

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  22. Mmm, Ganon, I smell blood. 🙂

    From your GDP stat, it’s only a handful of countries that could fill that requirement, and I suspect it’s Uruguay.

    Even though you state that you’re dating college girls, those girls have virtually no career opportunities with their degrees. Sure they’re well educated, but as far as I’m concerned those degrees are wasted. None of them are going on to become executives in large firms, partners at law firms, or well-skilled surgeons. They’ll simply become trophy wives of the Uruguian upper classes.

    Like I’ve stated on numerous occasions, I don’t see how any 30 year old man can put up with the immaturity of a 18-22 year old woman. Why would you want to marry the equivalent of a child with a driver’s license? A mature woman with some semblance of confidence and intelligence makes for a much better long term partner.

    As for the looks, I won’t argue with you on looks since we have different taste in women, but from what I’ve seen, hot American women are better looking than their hot European and South American counterparts. There’s a certain raw sexuality in the American look versus the natural, subtle, but statuesque look of European women.

    And finally, I wouldn’t talk so much about IQ if I belonged to a race which has by far on average the lowest.

    I have low IQ which means I can easily point out the fellow members of the low IQ class. Trust me, if your “white” nations in Latin America were so smart, they wouldn’t have the same GDPs of nations that are barely 15 years out of Communism. Argentina, Chile, and Uruguay could have done much better and should have been much richer, but they’re hot beds of inequality and shaky economic growth. Yes, Africa is broken and they have an excuse for being broken, but there’s no excuse for shanty towns at the edge of Buenos Aires and street kids selling stuff on El Subte instead of going to school. If your country has kids doing that, you’re fucking poor and second world at best.

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  23. Younger women have less hair on their south mouth….

    just saying

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  24. Younger women have less hair on their south mouth….

    Yuck. Nothing beats a thick luxuriant “south beard.”

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  25. Peter, you sure you’re not gay?

    DA, there must be very few opportunities in life for you to belittle others?

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  26. I’m at the bottom rung of society. The old saying of throwing stones in a glass house doesn’t apply to me since I don’t have a glass house.

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  27. DA, you’re selling yourself short again on the IQ stuff.

    However, the fact that US women have “options” is precisely the problem.

    I came of age in an era in which my female contemporaries were told they needed men like fish needed bicycles. While it was quite frustrating to me at the time, I thought that once they were a little older they would come to their senses.

    Sadly that didn’t happen, and the rejection I took personally turned out to be a rejection of all men, and those that did so wound up alone and without spawn.

    I was lucky that at my advanced age I was able to find someone still fertile (a few years younger than me). I wish I had two normal kids rather than one autistic one, but I am grateful for everything God has given me.

    Feminism will end not as a result of masses of men violently overthrowing the “feminocracy”, but as a result of the replacement of the non-breeding population with a more prolific, patriarchal one.

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  28. How old is Roissy?

    If Roissy is 30 years-old or younger this post is a distinction without any difference. His 25-years-old girl verus 26-year-old woman would make no sense. If Roissy is approaching 40-years-old then this makes a little sense, but not much. What is the difference between a 36-year-old woman and a 35-year-old woman? Nothing as far as I can see.

    So I would guess that Roissy is near that age that comes with 32-33 years of experience (maybe even 31). Around then he is old enough to know better, but young enough to still party and be the cool guy at the office, gym, or bar. He would generally find the late twenties and early thirties career women (those who got to 27-years-old without a husband, a child, or a baby, but perhaps with a law or business degree) to be too serious for his trouble. But he would be enchanted with the higher % of women-girls who are still finding themselves between 20 and 26 and think long range plans are when you plan next year’s vacation this year.

    They get a deal as well. At 32 he is not old enough to be a sugar daddy or creepy, but mature enough to show them the older stuff they crave. Her friends are all surprised to know that he is actually in his 30s, when he seems so cool, almost like the other guys they meet. I bet they use the word “Awesome” to describe Roissy as he walks out of their roommates bedroom and their apartment after f^@king her like a porn star. All that and he has his own place. Awesome!

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  29. Actually, Gannon, the 30-to-40-year-old woman is better off with a younger man from the point of view of fertility, too, because younger men are more sexually vigorous (though not necessarily more fertile in absolute terms – there’s a mysterious low sperm-count issue in younger men today) than their older counterparts. The fact that older men desire younger women means nothing about their sexual vigour – it just shows that they need the stimulus of younger flesh.

    As for which sex ages faster, I agree that it’s a complicated issue. Women (by men’s standards) look older sooner, esp. as we get no points for looking mature, as men do. On the other hand, it really isn’t true that men are more vigorous longer than women. Once they hit their 40s, men become very much more vulnerable to heart attacks than women, and stay that way until the women are old enough to be well past menopause, in their 60s. That has nothing to do with men’s dangerous jobs – it has to do with the hormonal protection against heart trouble that women receive from estrogen. If women do have heart trouble, they are more likely to die of a heart attack than men, and I concede that this happens because men’s hearts are stronger. And there are many places in the world where women do dangerous work like men, including India and sub-saharan Africa. Plus, the men are usually better-paid.

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  30. DA, you’re selling yourself short again on the IQ stuff.

    I’m taking fucking forever to finish college. I don’t feel as smart as I used to be. Something has to explain my inability to complete college when the other idiot kids in school were able to do so, and in harder majors.

    Feminism will end not as a result of masses of men violently overthrowing the “feminocracy”, but as a result of the replacement of the non-breeding population with a more prolific, patriarchal one.

    I like women with options. It means that loser ugly girls don’t hit on me so they can have a man to take care of them in exchange for awful sex. Under the current system, I can live alone, download porn to my heart’s content, reject women I don’t find attractive, and I’m still socially more accepted than under the old regime where I would have been expected to marry the first ugly female who shows any interest in me. In turn, the ugly girl can support herself and hold out for the alpha male instead of degrading herself to marry some toad with a 4 inch penis. Trust me, options for women are a good thing for men AND women.

    As for the death of the feminocracy, it’s not going to happen anytime soon. The patriarchy may have numbers in terms of breeding, but their high rates of birth will impoverish their members, dilute their power, and create a lowly educated citizenry who are too weak, poor, and incompetent to “take over”. The low birth society will have money and the tools to influence those without money and control the government. You lose. 🙂

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  31. “As for the death of the feminocracy, it’s not going to happen anytime soon. The patriarchy may have numbers in terms of breeding, but their high rates of birth will impoverish their members, dilute their power, and create a lowly educated citizenry who are too weak, poor, and incompetent to “take over”. The low birth society will have money and the tools to influence those without money and control the government. You lose.”
    Sorry, DA, that is not true. Have you ever been in Europe lately? There, the moslems are slowly replacing the native population. Slowly, there are already demanding tons of legal exceptions, and their endgoal is Sharia. The actual trend is the establishment of a law for the native and a special law for the moslems.
    In Europe, there are the following futures:
    balkanization
    civil war
    slow islamization

    In fact, in the US the latinos are also slowly outbreeding the black, and before you belittle latinos remember that most employers are not willing to hire blacks. Latinos are not feminists by the way.

    same GDPs of nations that are barely 15 years out of Communism. Argentina, Chile, and Uruguay could have done much better and should have been much richer, but they’re hot beds of inequality and shaky economic growth.
    Actually, these countries had to fight real socialisms too, all these light military dictatorships arose because democracy was to weak to fight communism.
    I don’t see how any 30 year old man can put up with the immaturity of a 18-22 year old woman
    Actually, that’s the ideal age range for you DA.
    And it’s easier to deal with a naughty girl than with the frustration of a perimenopausal woman.

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  32. “As for the death of the feminocracy, it’s not going to happen anytime soon. The patriarchy may have numbers in terms of breeding, but their high rates of birth will impoverish their members, dilute their power, and create a lowly educated citizenry who are too weak, poor, and incompetent to “take over”. The low birth society will have money and the tools to influence those without money and control the government. You lose.”

    I don’t think so, but most likely I won’t be around to find out. You, however, will be. You are too young to remember this, but Jim Morrison once said:

    Five to one, baby
    One in five
    No one here gets out alive. . .
    They got the guns but we got the numbers
    Gonna win, yeah, we’re takin’ over!

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  33. Have you ever been in Europe lately?

    One can argue that white Europeans should have more children, but quite frankly, the cost of raising children has become too expensive in general in the white world. You either need to restore a political and economic system where men can raise children on single family incomes, or you’ll need to reduce the expectation that people have for their lifestyles in general. No more fancy trips, no expensive cars, and no big houses, but lots of work raising babies. The high breeding cultures which we seem to despise have low investment in children and low expectations anyways.

    So the choice is to develop long-term robotic technology which is progressing very slowly or to import immigrants to do the work that white Europeans are unable to do.

    In fact, in the US the latinos are also slowly outbreeding the black, and before you belittle latinos remember that most employers are not willing to hire blacks. Latinos are not feminists by the way.

    I’m well aware of this fact, and social scientists have observed this trend as well. In fact, when my parents immigrated to the United States from Haiti, they were called “Frenchie” and told that they were “stealing jobs” from black people. Poor employment habits combined with racism on the part of employers and the lower labour costs of Mexicans (and black immigrants) creates a situation where black labour is unwanted and undesired which in turn creates a poorer black population which induces crime and creates more of the nasty social effects that we don’t like, and probably lowers the IQ even further.

    BTW, Latino, IMHO, has got to be the shittiest classification for a group of people. It’s a disparate group, and how German Argentines, black Puerto Ricans, and Indians from Mexico get classified in the same group just because of their Spanish speaking origins is silly. By that logic, a group of French speakers regardless of their origins are “the Gallic race”.

    The reason that I rag on countries like Argentina, Chile, and Urugauy is that they’re mostly white, have few black or aboriginal peoples, and their economies are in the shitter when compared to Eastern Europe which had to break off 40 years of Communist rule. You can write off the rest of Latin America because they’re filled with aboriginal and black populations which yanks down the average IQ considerably. I may be low IQ, but I’m not that stupid.

    As for the black birth rate, it fell due to the decrease of poverty and the end of easy welfare in 1996. Once that ended, there was no reason for black women to have large families to recieve welfare checks. In turn, due to increased child support enforcement, black men have less of an incentive to impregnate women as well. The lower birth rate may make us less politically important, but we were useless anyways and we might as well die off, and the low birth rate which served as an albatross on the black community will allow for better resource allocation.

    Actually, these countries had to fight real socialisms too, all these light military dictatorships arose because democracy was to weak to fight communism.

    The United States pumped millions of dollars into creating brutal regimes that killed the intellectual classes, reinforced the crippling social structure, and ruined the economies of Latin America instead of implementing a scheme similar to the Marshall Plan to boost democratic institutions and economic power to prevent the spread of the appeal of Communism.

    Actually, that’s the ideal age range for you DA.

    Again, I go to college with these women. They’re fucking stupid and immature, and I can’t stand them. My female friends were special because they were mature and intelligent, but sadly, not attractive in any way. Besides, they can date alpha boys of their own age who have cars and money.

    I don’t think so, but most likely I won’t be around to find out. You, however, will be. You are too young to remember this, but Jim Morrison once said:

    Trust me, that day’s not coming, and the day it does, they’ll beg like pissant slaves for us to come back and bring back order and civility. Options are always best. 🙂

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  34. BTW, to add, dating women in my own age only reinforces the fact that I don’t have the ability to date women in my own age group, which reinforces my inferiority to other men of my cohort. So, while somebody I graduated high school with is dating a 24 year old woman who has a great career and good list of accomplishments, beautiful apartment, and lots of stuff, the best I can do some idiot 20 year old girl who has to sneak out of her house so she can come go out with me without her mom and dad finding out.

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  35. Aristotle said the ideal age for a woman (for marriage, not just shagging) is half the age of the man, plus seven years.

    That makes my ideal woman 32. And if Roissy is 32 himself, his ideal woman should be around 23.

    Sounds about right. Great algorithm, Ari!

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  36. At 29, I generally find it easier to meet girls in their early 20’s than girls more my age, merely because there are so many more of them that are single and looking for something casual. By the late 20’s many attractive women are married or engaged. It’s simple supply.

    Then again, women in their early 20’s DO tend to be stupid with very little to say. There’s an obvious discrepancy in the conversation. And the girl that Roissy described? Well, I hope he wrapped it, cause that girl is a fucking slut…talking about Double-headed Dildo’s on a FIRST DATE? Are you kidding me?

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  37. DA: “I’m at the bottom rung of society. The old saying of throwing stones in a glass house doesn’t apply to me since I don’t have a glass house.” — I’m pretty sure these days the bottom rung of society is the Chinese gold farmer. Which would explain why DA gets so many posts in as he robolevels.

    I have yet to see any indication that girls get more “mature” or less “silly” after 19. I dated 19 year old girls almost exclusively for 11 straight years and only stopped when I couldn’t stand being in the shit clubs I needed to loiter in to meet them. Women older than that just get progressively more and more worn out, both physically and emotionally. There’s no turn on from a girl who’s giving up when she’s giving it up.

    And where are these girls supposed to be getting so erudite and learned past the college years? As far as I can tell they’re all getting chubs watching Lost.

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  38. You can write off the rest of Latin America because they’re filled with aboriginal and black populations which yanks down the average IQ considerably.

    IQ’s importance with respect to development levels can be overestimated. Take China. The average IQ of its population is as high as anywhere in the world, yet it’s done them precious little good. Only in the past few decades has China begun to emerge from a centuries-long slump that left it far behind the West. China’s prosperity remains a mile wide and an inch deep, with much of its population living much as they did for generations. And the country’s government isn’t even remotely democratic.

    As for which sex ages faster, I agree that it’s a complicated issue. Women (by men’s standards) look older sooner, esp. as we get no points for looking mature, as men do. On the other hand, it really isn’t true that men are more vigorous longer than women. Once they hit their 40s, men become very much more vulnerable to heart attacks than women, and stay that way until the women are old enough to be well past menopause, in their 60s.

    One thing I’ve noticed is that a lot of men physically go straight to hell past age 35 or 40. Even if they’d been fit and athletic in their younger years, once they reach the cusp of middle age many men become soft and pudgy and totally out-of-shape, if not outright obese. Their idea of “exercise” consists of a weekly round of cartball, plus of course hours spent slumped in front of the TV watching the game while sucking down vast quantities of beer, Buffalo wings and nachos. Women, in contrast, seem to be more interested in diet and fitness even when they’re no longer young.

    If women do have heart trouble, they are more likely to die of a heart attack than men, and I concede that this happens because men’s hearts are stronger.

    I believe the main factor behind the higher death rates is the fact that women tend to develop heart disease at much older ages than men. Other things being equal, it’s probably a lot easier to survive a heart attack at age 45 than at age 80.

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  39. on October 13, 2007 at 2:31 am Days of Broken Arrows

    Great post again, Roissy.

    You’ll notice the feminist baby boomers in the media are having seizures over younger women now. They’re saying “0 is the new 30” (a lie) and when Christie Brinkley’s husband was caught wit the nanny, they called her (get this) “a 19-year-old CHILD.”

    Soon, if you’re 40 dating a 30-year-old, they’ll classify you as a pedophile — a word that gets thrown around endlessly, thanks to jealous baby boomer media bitches.

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  40. on October 13, 2007 at 2:32 am Days of Broken Arrows

    Sorry! That was supposed to read “60 is the new 30.” Yuck.

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  41. You don’t even know how true this is… imagine being surrounded by about 20,000 college students, most of them undergrad. Out of convenience, I opted to eat at the campus dining hall, so I’m surrounded by them there too. College girls really are the perfect age.

    I used to tutor high school girls — you can see which ones have promise, but they’re still too cute and innocent to feel “that way” about. And after about 25 or so, by which time the typical human female would’ve borne her first child throughout most of our species’ history, they go into mothering mode.

    All the traits you describe older women as having — they’re great for when she has kids to raise (hers or others’), and you accept the collateral damage because she’s doing most of the rearing of your kids or helping out the community. But when you’re just dating, it can be a bit too much cost and not enough benefit. There are obviously exceptions, but that’s what they are.

    Somewhere around 18-23, that’s when they’re ready to take their romantic training wheels off and catch their husband. You left out so many details of the little things they do that are just enchanting… I’ll have to write that up sometime soon. They laugh and giggle a lot more, for example. (Effortless, warming giggles — not the ditsy, airheaded giggles that the envious deploy to mock them.)

    They always find some way to touch or caress things when walking by you to get your attention. For instance, walking by at a jaunty pace, reaching down to briefly caress a table in front of you, and then continuing on. Or caressing the jamb of a door they’re using to leave the room.

    I can only take so much — I didn’t plan to date an undergrad here, but I’m gonna make a move pretty soon. Maximum age gap would be 8 or 8.5 years, though, not quite as bad as you.

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  42. If I go to law school, a junior in college could be a 9 year age gap, kinda big but doable. But remember college, for many hot girls, brings bad habits like binge drinking, cursing and promiscuity that are good for getting laid by them but not for having a relationship. I have known cute, innocent high school seniors who became cynical and cocky in college. I’d still do them though.

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  43. That’s generally true, I also like dating younger girls, 18-25 (I’m 31) but in fact, the most sexual girl I’ve been with was 35, not sure whether to classify her as a cougar or HOW, but she has an amazing body, no cellulite, firm breasts, and can have 10+ orgasms a night, and you can tell they’re for real because of the squeezing and heavy breathing. Haven’t seen that in a younger woman, or any other woman at all.
    Makes you feel like, as Borat said, “wow, you are real man!”

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  44. on October 13, 2007 at 1:48 pm David Alexander

    I’m going to turn 24 in about three weeks, which makes me almost 7 years older than the youngest girls at my community college. Quite frankly, I’m not interested in telling stories about the old days before the Internet and other 90s nostalgia. Quite frankly, I’ve had some younger women (IIRC, three year difference) who were interested in me (one even had nails and lots of make up, but sadly she was black), but I brushed them off as naive stupid women who had no taste in men, and no experience with real men. Given that the men here aren’t exactly high ranking members of society, it’s safe to presume that the women of your age group presume that you are losers and you prey on young women who are too stupid and naive and lacking in experience to know the difference between a good man and you.

    cursing and promiscuity that are good for getting laid by them but not for having a relationship

    Either you’re prudish and conservative, or you must not enjoy spending time with women. For what it’s worth, cute isn’t sexy in many cases, but it’s childish and asexual, IMHO.

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  45. Do date younger girls, but neve be paedophile! 😛

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  46. how do you digitally arouse someone? was this a virtual playground? if you’re talking about sex toys, i know they take batteries and all but can’t think of a digital one.

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  47. I am not sure it is the age of the woman. I was much more reserved when I was younger than I am now at 42. At 21, I would be trying too hard to appear mature dating an older man.

    I am much more open, spontaneous, sexual now in my old age. 😉

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  48. From the amount of time you have on your hands, I’d have to guess that those of you arguing vociferously one way or the other aren’t getting much action, young, old, second-world, or European. The great thing about being a woman is that we don’t have to brag about our exploits. It’s assumed we’re having them.

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  49. on October 13, 2007 at 3:06 pm David Alexander

    From the amount of time you have on your hands, I’d have to guess that those of you arguing vociferously one way or the other aren’t getting much action, young, old, second-world, or European.

    I know I’m not getting any. I think the rest of them are lying. 😛

    It’s assumed we’re having them.

    Actually, unless there are obvious signs of sexual appearance (revealing clothing/ heavy makeup/body enhancements), I presume the female is asexual.

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  50. on October 13, 2007 at 4:19 pm Days of Broken Arrows

    “It’s assumed we’re having them.”

    No, it’s assumed you’re controlling, bitchy American wenches, as your arrogant post would indicate. Most American women prefer shopping to sex, so no one assumes any woman is getting anything ever — and if they are they are problaly faking liking it because they’re all man hating bitches.

    This is why Roissy spends time teaching guys how to get laid without having to spend money on bitches such as yourself.

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  51. it’s safe to presume that the women of your age group presume that you are losers
    That’s really not the case. I could have had a woman my age, but I choose a younger one. A yoounger woman if anything is a symbol of prestige and therefor makes you a winner. You femenist shaming language won’t work here.

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  52. Days of Broken Arrow reeks of bitter beta male with that comment. IMHO, maybe they hate men because of bitter men like you who belittle them and leave them with poor sexual experiences. Try making a girl orgasm, and maybe she might enjoy having sex with you.

    I may think women are asexual, but I think that’s a global issue, and that’s due to the vagaries of the female sex drive. It’s certainly not because women are bitches. In fact, those loyal compliant foreign women that are glorified here aren’t much better, and they’re only dealing with you because you’re their meal ticket out of their cesspool foreign hellholes. They’re faking their love for you, while a woman who can earn her own money has a better chance of loving you as far as I’m concerned since she doesn’t have to leech off you.

    BTW, shopping is fun. You can buy stuff that lasts longer and is more useful than an hour of sex. 🙂

    A yoounger woman if anything is a symbol of prestige and therefor makes you a winner.

    Just like how your manspeak won’t work on me. I could get a girl that’s younger than me if I tried to make an effort, but that just points out my pathetic faults, and her stupidity and low standards. Your desire to avoid women of your own age IMHO, makes you look worse and shows that you’re interested in an immature woman who thinks you’re a prize catch instead of an intelligent and experienced woman of your age who would easily point out your flaws and possibly not date you because of them.

    I’d rather be alone than become a loser troll and date a younger woman.

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  53. Jessica – Just guessing but i’m thinking using your middle digit.

    DA – You’d rather be alone than date a younger woman…Really?

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  54. David, we are your friends here, not your enemies.
    And for all I care people can date women who are from a different race, religion, class, background, weight class or age. I think is wrong to call it inmoral when a man dates a somewhat younger girl, because there is a strong biological base for it, specially if he respects the legal limits society has set.

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  55. DA – You’d rather be alone than date a younger woman…Really?

    I’m young, cynical, and stubborn, so at this point in my life, yes. Dating younger women reminds me of my inferiority vis à vis the other males my age who can date professional women of their own age. For me at 24, dating a 20 year old is pathetic, but a fourty year old male dating a thirty year old female isn’t so bad. One of my closer female friends is 25 and her b/f is 30, it’s not bad because they’re adults. 18-21 year old girls in contrast are still children who need daddy’s permission to date a black guy.

    David, we are your friends here, not your enemies.

    Ich habe kein Freund! 🙂

    I think is wrong to call it inmoral when a man dates a somewhat younger girl

    I don’t think it’s immoral if both parties are of legal age and agree to it. I think it’s degrading because it shows the inferiority of the male.

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  56. Ich habe kein Freund!
    Actually, it’s
    Ich habe keinen Freund (I don’t have a friend)
    Ich habe keine Freunde (I dont have any friends)
    I freue mich, dass du dich daran erinnerst, dass ich auch Deutsch spreche. Es ist aber sehr schwer, zwischen dem Dativ und dem Akkusativ zu unterscheiden.

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  57. My friend’s German is becoming crappier. I should learn German one of these days just for the fun factor after learning Spanish and French.

    And yes, I do remember that about you. I tend to remember little facts like that about people for some reasons. It’s why my female friends liked spending time with me. The little things always cheered them up and made them feel special. 🙂

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  58. Gannon said:

    “It is only the US who expects young men to marry perimenopausal women and raise their offspring from another men. And the US is propagating this feminist man hating doctrine who their succesful media.”

    Gannon, you should get a Nobel Prize for that observation. How true! Only when American men finally wake up from their oblivious slumber to this and related facts about sexual relations in America circa 2007, will true progress will be made in the never-ending competition between the sexes in America… or said men will simply make plans to leave the country, or exclusively date women who live in other countries, as I do.

    Glad to know someone has seen the light here!

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  59. Gannon said:

    “It is only the US who expects young men to marry perimenopausal women and raise their offspring from another men. And the US is propagating this feminist man hating doctrine who their succesful media.”

    Gannon, you should get a Nobel Prize for that observation. How true! Only when American men finally wake up from their oblivious slumber to this and related facts about sexual relations in America circa 2007, will true progress will be made in the never-ending competition between the sexes in America… or said men will simply make plans to leave the country, or exclusively date women who live in other countries, as I do.

    Glad to know someone has seen the light here

    Thank you veru much. Btw, it should say through, not who.
    Because, I’m not American, but rather an (German) Easteuropean who lives in Latinamerca it’s not difficult to see the light. Americans (like DA for example) have been told their whole live that wanting young, fertile females is wrong and that they have an obligation to date within their own age.
    That is specially difficult over the age of 25.
    Let me tell a real life story. The son of one of my father’s business partners came to make some business. He was in his early thirties and said that he wanted to start his own family. However, women most available women his age were divorced with children or single mothers with at least two children. But he wanted to have three children, his own children. When he started trying to date a suitable mate (women between 21 to 25) some of these girls called him an old pervert. When he started to have a relationship with a nice 23 year old her parents completely opposed the relationship just because of his age. This guy I’m talking about was like 34, average looking and high middle class. But he had huge problems getting a suitable bride because:

    “the US expects young men to marry perimenopausal women and raise their offspring from another men.”
    In short, this guy met a nice educated 24 year old woman in my country and took her to the US, married her after a while and they are still together. If people tell you that in other countries 20 year old girls are happy with men 25 year their senior, they are lying to you, but in most countires most women don’t mind being with men 10 year their senior , being the limit about 15.

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  60. Americans (like DA for example) have been told their whole live that wanting young, fertile females is wrong and that they have an obligation to date within their own age.

    Argh!

    I’ll reiterate my point again. The problem is the women in that age group are silly, immature, and stupid. They don’t know anything about how men should treat them and respect them, and any older guy who comes along with some cash and a nice job is always going to be magically attractive. Even if I had a great job, I would never prey on stupid women in that way because it’s a personal insult to me. It’s not because anybody brainwashed me or because I’ve been told for all of my life that it’s wrong. If you want to do so, you may, otherwise, the some males like myself have no desire to demean ourselves with easy women who have low standards.

    Besides, even if you’re 34 and you marry a 24 year old woman, it doesn’t mean that you can afford three children in the first place. Now, three kids is slowly becoming a luxury that many in the middle class cannot afford.

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  61. Days of BA, you have to control your frustration, which comes from the biological reality that females can find a sex partner on demand, while you (and I, just for the record) can’t.

    Keep in mind, however, that their power is of very limited duration–roughly coinciding with their period of fertility, and declining rapidly after its onset. If they use it to screw around or blow their opportunities, then they lose biologically in the only thing that matters: passing your genes on to your offspring.

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  62. DA, if I’m remembering rightly, lots of men between the ages of about 21-31 find it embarrassing to date noticeably younger women for exactly the reason you suggest. And this has NOTHING to do with feminism (the men I’m thinking of were not feminists at all).

    The men I was friends with in those years of my life would say things to each other like, “you’re dating a teenager!?! Well, I guess she doesn’t mind that you haven’t graduated/don’t have a job/work in a video store/make only $35,000 p.a./live in your parents’ basement.” Incidentally, all the comments here about how materialistic American women are, are really just a tacit acknowledgment of your point. Why would these supposed alpha males mind object to materialistic women, unless they were unable to deliver the goods?

    For them, a woman of their own age or just slightly younger was the natural choice; a slightly older woman was a symbol that they were alphas, studs, that they had arrived, that they could impress a real grown-up woman sexually and materially. When I was 30, a 28-year-old beau dumped me for a woman 6 years older than he was. And was he ever proud of himself for nabbing her.

    You should move to Canada. Not only is it (a bit) less racist, but young black women here are seldom ghetto-girl types and they are not usually fat. Of course, they’re often Muslim, which does have its problems for would-be suitors who are not.

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  63. “For them, a woman of their own age or just slightly younger was the natural choice; a slightly older woman was a symbol that they were alphas, studs, that they had arrived, that they could impress a real grown-up woman sexually and materially. When I was 30, a 28-year-old beau dumped me for a woman 6 years older than he was. And was he ever proud of himself for nabbing her.”

    I can assure you that 95% of men any age prefer to have sex with a 20 year old rather than with a 30 year old, all things being equal. Forget all that shit about maturity, most men in fact prefer giggling 20 year olds. (although most grils stop gigling at around 17 anyway). Men are primarily attracted to fertility. A woman’s prime fertilty is around 14 to 27, peaking at around 16 to 22. That’s hard to swallow for a lot of people, but it’s reality, and in the end we have to live with reality. After 27 a woman’s fertility drops, usually disappearing at 35. So we could define the age between 27 to 35 as a woman’s secondary fertility. A men’s fertility drops also, but a lot later, usually very slowly and never really disappears, although birth defects are much more common if the man is over 50. If you really believe that men prefer 30 year old women to 20 year old, you are deceiving yourself. I’m not saying that men don’t age either, because they obviously do, but I would give them at least ten more years in the babymaking business.
    American society is very sick.
    For example:
    A 24 year old man has the option between a 32 year old woman and a 16 year old woman.
    If he dates the 32 year old and two years later marries her, American femenist society will applaud although he may end up with no children or only one, this a death end. Chances are that he will divorce her in five years.
    If he dates the 16 year old, he might never marry her because he may end up in jail. But if he had married her, he would have had maybe three nice, healthy kids, he also would have been happy with his younger wife for his whole life, because for a middleaged man there is nothing as healthy as a younger wife and she would have been happy feeling protected by a somewhat older and wiser man.

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  64. Gannon, you can believe what you want to believe, but it’s just not what I’ve seen or experienced in my life. It’s not an issue for me any more (I mean, I have no dog in this fight), because I’m old enough now to consider myself off the market. So although I accept that I could be mistaken, it’s not out of some sick self-deception, or desire to believe that I personally can compete with 20 year olds on a level playing-field.

    I don’t know of any opinion polls on the subject that clarify the issue of how old men prefer their sexual partners to be. But I do know that “sexual partner” does not automatically translate into “marriage partner”. A man of 35 seeking a casual sex partner may well prefer a 20-year-old (though not necessarily); he will certainly prefer young flesh in porn stars (though David A. likes the 39-year-old Pamela Anderson best even now!), but he will probably choose to marry a woman closer to his own age. At least, in North America.

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  65. but he will probably choose to marry a woman closer to his own age. At least, in North America
    But if he does, he may end up with no or few children, and therefore becomes irrelevant. Also, since the woman is past her binding years the bond between them will be weak and he might end up in divorce.

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  66. alias clio dreamed on:
    lots of men between the ages of about 21-31 find it embarrassing to date noticeably younger women

    you misspelled ‘exhilarating’.

    The men I was friends with in those years of my life would say things to each other like, “you’re dating a teenager!?! Well, I guess she doesn’t mind that you haven’t graduated…

    sour grapes.

    Why would these supposed alpha males mind object to materialistic women, unless they were unable to deliver the goods?

    “Some girls are sophistic… materialistic
    Looking for a man makes them opportunistic”

    alpha males want a woman who enjoys making love to them more than she enjoys shopping with his money.
    their response is not to object impotently about her materialism.
    it’s to walk away from any woman not meeting his standards.
    because they can.

    For them, a woman of their own age or just slightly younger was the natural choice;

    if by slightly younger you mean in the prime age bracket of 18-25, yes, i agree.

    a slightly older woman was a symbol that they were alphas, studs, that they had arrived

    this is wishful thinking. his fellow men will correctly assume he is a loser who settled for a wall victim, and younger women with sexual value will not be intrigued by any attention a man gets from a washed up older woman.
    now it is possible the aging harpy clustercluck will all approve of his discerning taste in selecting a “””mature””” woman.
    but then that’s a stamp of approval not worth getting.

    that they could impress a real grown-up woman sexually and materially.

    funny, but the younger his girl is, the better he will impress her sexually.
    could it have something to do with being inspired?
    the boner doesn’t lie!
    btw, it’s much harder to impress a young hot woman materially (if that’s the route the guy chooses to go) than it is to impress by flashing cash an older less desirable woman.

    When I was 30, a 28-year-old beau dumped me for a woman 6 years older than he was.

    on a 1-10 scale, how would you rate your looks?
    how would you rate the looks of the new woman he left you for?

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  67. “btw, it’s much harder to impress a young hot woman materially (if that’s the route the guy chooses to go) than it is to impress by flashing cash an older less desirable woman.”

    You know Roissy, you are absolutely right. If you want to impress a 16-22 year old, money is almost useless. Women before the age of 23 don’t really care about money, specially if Daddy pays for every of her wishes.

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  68. Roissy, where did I even use the word “exhilarating” in the comments on this page (which by the way according to google is spelled “exhilerating”)? And if you meant “embarrassing”, I spelled that right as well.

    The men I’m remembering in my comment were “alphas” by your definition, in that they appeared to be able to get whatever women they wanted. So I don’t think that your suggestions about envy, etc., applied to them.

    The “aging wallflower” bit doesn’t automatically apply, either. Really, there are some quite beautiful women who are more than 24 years old! I was very jealous, as a 21 year old, of “older” women (those up to their early 30s, at any rate), who had successful careers, cars, houses, were beautifully dressed, etc.

    As for my looks vis a vis the “other woman” in my story, I can’t say, because I never met her. But that isn’t supposed to matter, is it, if raw youth is what counts? My beau SH was in the movie biz (hey, I’m one degree from Kevin Bacon thanks to him) and had his pick of pretty young things; he chose me and then a woman four years older than I was and six years older than himself.

    I don’t know where I was on the one-ten scale. I heard everything from 7 to 10. I do know that most of the men I dated had what I thought were extremely pretty ex-girlfriends. In fact – and here’s a bit to support one of your common themes – I was insecure enough back then to choose men partly for that reason, when I was younger. But I dunno. I can’t persuade you without sending a photo, which I’m NOT prepared to do.

    I had trouble holding on to them because I was, er, too Catholic. So it’s not as if they were choosing me for easy sex. In fact, thanks to my reputation as a don’t-touch kind of girl, I probably lost some of the alpha attention I might otherwise have gotten. And I liked to argue about politics and religion – which puts off your classic alpha male types. (So Roissy, you’re the first internet male who has persuaded me to confess publicly about this stuff; perhaps you do have some kind of black magic, or “game”…)

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  69. One correction: the men appeared to be able to get whatever younger women they wanted.

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  70. Most older women confuse the fact that their are still hot with the willingness of men to marry them. Women in their thirties are great short term relationships, but bad marriage deals, because their best years are behind them, whereas a young girl has her best years before her. Marrying a woman in her early thirties means that only in a few short yearsyou have a infertile woman (cougar).

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  71. You should move to Canada. Not only is it (a bit) less racist, but young black women here are seldom ghetto-girl types and they are not usually fat. Of course, they’re often Muslim, which does have its problems for would-be suitors who are not.

    I’ve considered that on many occasions. I’d end up taking the hit in terms of income, but like you said, it’s less racist up there. Even when I visit, I feel differently, and I feel less antagonism from the whites there than here in the States.

    BTW, I really don’t want a black women. I’d prefer a white women because they’re better looking, and their IQ is higher than that of a black woman. Thus, if I want my children to be intelligent, it’s best to the find a white woman, lest they become unemployable low IQ criminals and welfare single-mothers with 5 kids with 5 different dads.

    .You know Roissy, you are absolutely right. If you want to impress a 16-22 year old, money is almost useless. Women before the age of 23 don’t really care about money, specially if Daddy pays for every of her wishes.

    Maybe in your bizzaro world it’s different, but even with the girls who have daddy’s money, the amount of money you make to pay for her stuff is very important around here. Hence why the goons with the BMWs “collect” the women, and while those of us with normal cars are left with nothing.

    A 24 year old man has the option between a 32 year old woman and a 16 year old woman.

    Ganon, one of the problems with your theory is that it relies on the female deciding that she wants to nuke her career and her plans in order to have children at a young age. Given the choice between having children at 18 or having an exciting funfilled life for the next ten years, most women in the Western world will pick the fun. It’s easy for you to make your choice to marry a 16 year old at 32 because at that age, you’ve already had your fun, and you’re bored and ready to settle down. Having children at a young age doesn’t allow for that to happen for women.

    But if he does, he may end up with no or few children, and therefore becomes irrelevant.

    Does that really matter if they have children or not? Most of us have moved on from only dealing only with our primal urges. 🙂

    Really, there are some quite beautiful women who are more than 24 years old!

    Yes, a 8 at 24 looks better than a 8 at 34. OTOH, the 8 at 34 looks way better than the 6 at 24.

    but bad marriage deals, because their best years are behind them

    Who cares! If the two of you love each other enjoy each other’s company, even if we have only one kid versus three, it really doesn’t detract from it. Besides, you can always adopt one of those cute little foriegn kids or Asian baby girls with the higher IQ than what your pathetic sperm and eggs could create.

    BTW, interestingly, it’s been my feminist female friends who have dated older men because they felt that they were more mature than their boys their age so you really can’t blame the feminists…

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  72. “Ganon, one of the problems with your theory is that it relies on the female deciding that she wants to nuke her career and her plans in order to have children at a young age. Given the choice between having children at 18 or having an exciting funfilled life for the next ten years, most women in the Western world will pick the fun. It’s easy for you to make your choice to marry a 16 year old at 32 because at that age, you’ve already had your fun, and you’re bored and ready to settle down. Having children at a young age doesn’t allow for that to happen for women.”

    David, you still don’t get it. Those girls who choose the funfilled life for their 18-28 years will be having too much fun to stop. The majority of them will never have kids. If you don’t believe me, check this out:

    http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_4_new_girl_order.html

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  73. Oh well then. So they don’t get married to loser men and they have fun for the rest of their lives. What’s so bad about that?

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  74. Sestamibi, perhaps you didn’t get the point of that article, which actually supports DA’s point of view more than that of other commenters here, on the whole.

    One of its major points was that career women in the US are among the last of that type who actually want to get married. Other women with jobs, esp. those from countries with no tradition of companionate marriage, are willing to forgo marriage and children all their lives in order not to have to put up with husbands who expect them to be domestic drudges all the time.

    Something to think about…

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  75. Career women in the US are harming themselves and the feminist cause. Since they’re not reproducing the best they can do is to attempt to convert women after they’ve been indoctrinated by the reproducing parents.

    Thus it’s a self-limiting thing. An increase in career women with no children -> higher proportion of women are raised by traditional parents -> lower proportion of career women with no children. There’s some buffering from the conversion rate and stuff, but without actual numbers it’s really speculation.

    alias clio:
    I think the point that you’re choosing to ignore is whether or not the women are being honest about their lives and happiness. For example, walk around DC and you will not see very many happy women, for all the yachts, expensive cars, and material wealth they may have acquired.

    Unfortunately, most people are unreliable narrators. For example, many people that work at jobs they don’t really like can give you a spiel on why they love their job and why they do it. They learn to rationalize their job, because it’s expected.

    I don’t have a problem with career women or homemakers. I have a problem with either side trying to push their agenda and shut out the other. When career women claim that homemakers are wasting their talent, while homemakers think career women are closet lesbians trying to destroy traditional family values.

    People should be educated and be allowed to select what they want. Of course, this will result in a lot of LNS types, but what can you do? With free will comes a lot of idiots.

    DA:
    Just for you.

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  76. Why do career women see themselves as superior? I get this big sense of being proud of all the material and career achievement.

    It makes much more sense to use happiness as a gouge. Looking around at all the successful DC women, very few seem really happy. My high school chemistry teacher that coaches cheerleading at my HS was happier than any powerful women that I have met. She’s married to a gym teacher and has kids.

    There is something to be said about a life of achievement, but alias clio when you say something like:

    “Also, you assume that women actually want to get married. That their only goal in life is to land a husband. Many women don’t want that because they don’t have to have it. When you look around at your life and realize you own a couple houses, a boat, are able to take great vacations, have a fantastic job, and stash the cash regularly, that “need” for a man (which is really just insecurity) that makes so many 20-somethings jump at the first chance to settle down seems empty.”

    Seriously? WTF? Are you completely shallow? Is the only need you see for a man is for money and maybe random sex? Do you think raising a child is drudgery?
    I guess perpetuation of the species and caring about something other than yourself must be hard for self-centered materialistic career women.

    The tone you use also somehow implies superiority over homemakers and that’s what really ticks me off. Who are you to authoritatively dictate a value system systematically devaluing the important contributions of homemakers?

    I personally, would argue homemakers are more valuable than you. They provide a source of a limited renewable resources that science cannot yet replace.

    Anybody guy can do your job, but can any guy get pregnant?

    Amoral alpha male with a vagina, you must be a lawyer.

    DA:

    Just for you!

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  77. Nullpointer, I think you entirely missed my point. Did you read the article that sestamibi linked? Basically, what it says is that career women in the United States WANT TO GET MARRIED. Unlike their counterparts in Japan, Korea, Greece, Spain and elsewhere, places which have NO TRADITION OF COMPANIONATE MARRIAGE, so that once their women are free of domestic duties, they are reluctant to return to them because they know that men will not help at all. In other words, American career women are at once more “liberated” and more “man friendly” than their career-woman counterparts in other parts of the world.

    I am being repetitive here because you seem to have fired off responses so quickly that you paid little attention either to what you read, or to who wrote it. The bit you quote indignantly about “Also, you assume that women actually want to get married. That their only goal in life is to land a husband. Many women don’t want that because they don’t have to have it. When you look around at your life and realize you own a couple houses, a boat, are able to take great vacations, have a fantastic job, and stash the cash regularly, that “need” for a man (which is really just insecurity) that makes so many 20-somethings jump at the first chance to settle down seems empty” WAS NOT WRITTEN BY ME. Nor have I said anything like it, nor do I share the sentiments.

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  78. Alias, you don’t get it either. The point of the article is very clear: young women who have “options” all too often choose the “option” of partying and sacrificing their most fertile years, and that explains the demographic collapse of Europe, North America, and the rest of the Anglosphere.

    MY point was that those who are “willing to forgo marriage and children all their lives in order not to have to put up with husbands who expect them to be domestic drudges all the time” will be ending their genetic lines.

    The breach will then be filled by the ranks of evangelical Christians like Jim and Michelle Duggar (and their seventeen children), Orthodox Jews and their large families (in contrast to secular types like me), and Muslims. I suggest you get fitted for your burqua.

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  79. The breach will then be filled by the ranks of evangelical Christians like Jim and Michelle Duggar (and their seventeen children), Orthodox Jews and their large families (in contrast to secular types like me), and Muslims. I suggest you get fitted for your burqua.

    Yet you seem to be unwilling to explain how such high-birth groups are going to be able to maintain high investment in their children? When these poor breeder families discover that they’re too poor to send their children to college, they’ll discover that they have no power what so-ever and that us low birth rate secular liberals control fucking everything and we have enough money to turn them into our virtual peasants and brainwash them with the media.

    The tone you use also somehow implies superiority over homemakers and that’s what really ticks me off.

    When a husband leaves you for another better looking female or dies leaving no financial support, many homemakers have questioned their decisions to cripple their economic self-worth by staying at home with the children.

    Besides, homemakers are poorer, and thus cannot spend money on nice clothing, makeup, and spa treatments that help make older women better looking. In contrast, the stay at home moms are frumpy and boring which in turn is a disincentive for the male to stay loyal to his ugly, frumpy housewife when there’s a hotter woman at work.

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  80. Is the only need you see for a man is for money and maybe random sex? Do you think raising a child is drudgery?

    If you have your own career that pays for your lifestyle, than yes, you really don’t need a man. And yes, raising a child is drudgery. Sure they love you, but it’s immensely hard work that doesn’t pay back, especially if the kids don’t love you or they screw up and become failures. So when you’re a beautiful woman who lives such a lifestyle, in effect, the man is only useful for random sex. You seem to presume that most men are emotional, warm, and caring, and IMHO, most really aren’t.

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  81. Sestamibi, I do get it. But Kay H.’s article was not a one-note wail about demographic collapse. She tried to suggest that without some kind of cooperation from men, some willingness to be more than simple bread-winners to their wives, women are not likely to be willing to sacrifice themselves. And she made the point that American single young females are much more willing to make some sacrifices for marriage and children because they expect to find more cooperative husbands.

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  82. alias clioed:
    which by the way according to google is spelled “exhilerating”)?

    google is wrong. commies.

    But that isn’t supposed to matter, is it, if raw youth is what counts?

    on average, young women are more attractive than older women.
    but if a 21 year old destroys her looks with obesity then a 34 year old who has kept up well and stayed thin will turn a lot more heads.

    As for my looks vis a vis the “other woman” in my story, I can’t say, because I never met her.

    then you can’t use the example of your ex dating an older woman as evidence of any trend on the part of men to desire older women or as proof of their alphaness.
    or:
    mitigating factors tell the tale.

    I do know that most of the men I dated had what I thought were extremely pretty ex-girlfriends.

    that suggests you were in the same attractiveness range as his exes.
    or that he had his heart crushed and needed a rebound with an easier target.

    I was insecure enough back then to choose men partly for that reason, when I was younger.

    it’s not insecurity. it’s a primal attraction switch that’s turned on when in the company of men who do well with pretty women. only in hindsight when the incredible power of your youthful beauty has faded do you rationalize it as a posture of insecurity.
    but your genes know better.

    I had trouble holding on to them because I was, er, too Catholic.

    had you met me back then, i would’ve convinced you to grant me a plenary indulgence.
    just for one night.

    thanks to my reputation as a don’t-touch kind of girl,

    much i learned about women suffering the blue balls of dealing with these types of girls.

    And I liked to argue about politics and religion

    a lot depends on the tone of conversation. a dab of politics or religion is fine. but some of these leftwing chicks in DC have their egos bound so tightly to their righteous fiery political views that i find myself either telling them to shut up and snapping them into a more agreeable emotional state, or completely losing interest in the seduction.

    perhaps you do have some kind of black magic, or “game

    it’s your only weakness.

    without some kind of cooperation from men, some willingness to be more than simple bread-winners to their wives

    what’s in it for me?

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  83. Alias, your posts demonstrate very vividly the feminist article of faith that the truth is whatever I believe it to be. If the article wasn’t a “one note wail”, then it was certainly a chorus with perhaps a small part for one soloist to take the opposite position.

    If you read the other article I recommended, by Philip Longman, you would have discovered that successful patriarchy cannot be sustained by brutalizing women (as we are finding out in the Middle East), but rather by families headed by adherents more along the lines of “Promise Keepers”.

    David, you low birth rate secular liberals won’t be controlling anything because eventually there won’t be enough of you to do the controlling. Furthermore, doesn’t it occur to you that among these large families, not all the kids have to go to college? I have an MA, but my brother didn’t bother to finish his first year of college.

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  84. Stars above, sestamibi, you aren’t really determined to make me over into a radical feminist!?!

    I’m a conservative Catholic female. I’m not especially feminist. In fact, feminists usually reject me categorically, because I’m a strong pro-lifer. They won’t have me in their club, and I don’t want to join, if that’s the grounds for admission.

    Hymowitz’s piece was not, in fact, an attack on the phenomenon of career women, although it certainly expressed a good deal of worry about demographic decline, a fear which I share. Here’s the bit which I noticed:

    “That raises an interesting question: Why are SYFs in the United States—the Rome of the New Girl Order—still so interested in marriage? By large margins, surveys suggest, American women want to marry and have kids. Indeed, our fertility rates, though lower than replacement level among college-educated women, are still healthier than those in most SYF countries (including Sweden and France). The answer may be that the family has always been essential ballast to the individualism, diversity, mobility, and sheer giddiness of American life. It helps that the U.S., like northwestern Europe, has a long tradition of “companionate marriage”—that is, marriage based not on strict roles but on common interests and mutual affection. Companionate marriage always rested on the assumption of female equality. Yet countries like Japan are joining the new order with no history of companionate relations, and when it comes to adapting to the new order, the cultural cupboard is bare. A number of analysts, including demographer Nicholas Eberstadt, have also argued that it is America’s religiousness that explains our relatively robust fertility, though the Polish fertility decline raises questions about that explanation.”

    It’s not a large part of the article, but it’s an important one because it tries to make a case not for the rejection of marriage and childbearing, but for a (slightly) more egalitarian ideal of marriage. I recently posted a piece on my blog from another article whose author argued that it’s men, perhaps even more than women, who opt for cohabitation rather than marriage, and who are reluctant to have children.

    I read Longman’s article on patriarchy before, and liked it. But patriarchy of any kind requires some cooperation from women nowadays. In other words, women may be willing to stay home and have children (and in the US educated women are doing it more nowadays, according to the New York Times), but they expect their husbands to offer them more than a master/servant relationship. That’s all.

    I don’t know the way out of this impasse. If men won’t cooperate and women won’t budge, I suppose we’ll see social chaos in the next two or three generations.

    But please stop attributing to me attitudes and opinions that I don’t have.

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  85. You guys in the US are lucky.
    Your country will become only more religious, thanks to christian fundamentalists and catholic latinos (catholics are a lot less dangerous than fanatic evangelicals by the way. The real problem is the slow islamization in Europe. Read my words:
    Bloody civil war in another 3 to 5 decades.

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  86. alias clio:
    I recently posted a piece on my blog from another article whose author argued that it’s men, perhaps even more than women, who opt for cohabitation rather than marriage, and who are reluctant to have children.

    this makes sense.
    after all, marriage is a raw deal for men.
    divorce theft and monogamy in exchange for giving up the prerogative to screw around for free?
    i don’t see the upside.

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  87. Yes but Roissy, you’re assuming that cohabitation makes the problem of asset division after marriage easier and more equitable. As far as I know, in most places it’s just as difficult legally, and not much fairer for men.

    What’s more, cohabitation can make it harder for men to get access to their children after a relationship breaks up, if they have had children.

    The real reason behind men’s reluctance to marry is, I suspect, the fact that they already have everything they need when cohabiting, and have no motivation for marriage. Plus, in North America, fewer women (above a certain social level), are willing to have children while merely cohabiting, so if a man doesn’t want kids, he is less likely to have his girlfriend try to talk him into having them. In other words, nowadays male reluctance to have children is equal to or greater than women’s reluctance to do so, and marriage itself has little to do with the matter.

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  88. Furthermore, doesn’t it occur to you that among these large families, not all the kids have to go to college? I have an MA, but my brother didn’t bother to finish his first year of college.

    You do realize that the only means of avoiding becoming a member of the disrespected white trash (or ghetto black) classes is to complete college? Yes, there is successful blue collar work, but nobody respects them, and we treat the people who do such work as de facto niggers who were “lazy” and can’t do any better.

    Read my words: Bloody civil war in another 3 to 5 decades.

    I have more faith in Whites than you do. 🙂

    In other words, nowadays male reluctance to have children is equal to or greater than women’s reluctance to do so, and marriage itself has little to do with the matter.

    The same burdens of child rearing also apply to males as well. Why would you want to give up your lifestyle of playing Halo whenever you want, and the ability to go out get piss drunk on a nightly basis to have children. For men and women, having children is a burden, the high costs of raising children to become successful and acceptable members of society requires more resources than ever before, and unless expectations for (and the cost of achieving) success magically go down, expect the number of children to be born to go down for most people, except for the religious breeders who are sometimes rich, but in some cases use the welfare system to pay for the care of their children.

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  89. Alias, if the SYFs today are so keen on marriage, that is a new development. I can tell you that was not the case back in the 70’s when I came of age and had everything that allegedly made me a desirable catch: decent job, own home, car. As I’ve said here before, those who found me lacking found all other men lacking as well.

    In today’s world, women have gained the upper hand in the economic and political marketplace (primarily because the top alpha males let it happen), while still retaining the upper hand in relationships (biologically determined). However, they still look to marry up, but today there’s no one “up” to marry.

    As for the social chaos you foresee, I don’t think that will happen. What will happen, as I said, is that the men who won’t cooperate and the women won’t budge won’t breed, and the world (and the US) will be inherited by others who do.

    David, yes there is successful blue collar work (perhaps I would have been better off if I had done that myself), but there’s also entrepreneurship, and sometimes a combination of the two. Perhaps we would be better off if it got the respect given to BA’s in “critical queer studies” from third-tier private colleges in the midwest.

    Check this out:

    http://www.bluecollarandproudofit.com/

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  90. “As for the social chaos you foresee, I don’t think that will happen. What will happen, as I said, is that the men who won’t cooperate and the women won’t budge won’t breed, and the world (and the US) will be inherited by others who do. ”
    Definitively not in the US. In Europe, there will be bloodshet between the religion of peace and the west. Some parts of important european cities already look like Instanbul, and these are incompatible cultures which will not melt.

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  91. Gannon, you’re right.

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  92. David, yes there is successful blue collar work (perhaps I would have been better off if I had done that myself), but there’s also entrepreneurship, and sometimes a combination of the two. Perhaps we would be better off if it got the respect given to BA’s in “critical queer studies” from third-tier private colleges in the midwest.

    Yes, but in certain areas of the country, like the Northeast, blue collar work as dimissed as “nigger work” for trashy whites and blacks with white collar work being glorified as the only suitable work for “proper” people. Entrepreneurship while nice can pay well, but it doesn’t have the same power that being a lawyer, doctor, or marketing whore has.

    The dude who studied the useless major that’s best left for a master’s degree program is still “better” in the eyes of many because he has a degree and spent four years in college learning. He’s considered to be “refined” with “critical thinking skills”.

    Gannon, you’re right.

    As a non-white person who is an economic free rider of white society, I don’t see the Kulturkampf that you see, and I’m not a whishy-washy liberal. If anything, the easiest solution is maintain laicite, boot the fuck out of any imam that preaches anti-Western speech, and enforce the laws regardless of the neighbourhood’s ethicity. If they feel uncomfortable in a pays blancs with our way of life, then certainly they should leave, and if we have to pay them to leave so be it.

    BTW, if you need immigrants, Caribbean immigrants are great. We love white people and we’re Christian…

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  93. David, yes there is successful blue collar work (perhaps I would have been better off if I had done that myself), but there’s also entrepreneurship, and sometimes a combination of the two. Perhaps we would be better off if it got the respect given to BA’s in “critical queer studies” from third-tier private colleges in the midwest.

    Yes, but in certain areas of the country, like the Northeast, blue collar work as dismissed as “nigger work” for trashy whites and blacks with white collar work being glorified as the only suitable work for “proper” people. Entrepreneurship while nice can pay well, but it doesn’t have the same power that being a lawyer, doctor, or marketing whore has.

    The dude who studied the useless major that’s best left for a master’s degree program is still “better” in the eyes of many because he has a degree and spent four years in college learning. He’s considered to be “refined” with “critical thinking skills”.

    Gannon, you’re right.

    As a non-white person who is an economic free rider of white society, I don’t see the Kulturkampf that you see, and I’m not a whishy-washy liberal. If anything, the easiest solution is maintain laicite, boot the fuck out of any imam that preaches anti-Western speech, and enforce the laws regardless of the neighbourhood’s ethnicity. If they feel uncomfortable in a “pays blancs” with our way of life, then certainly they should leave, and if we have to pay them to leave so be it.

    BTW, if you need immigrants, Caribbean immigrants are great. We love white people and we’re Christian…

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  94. David, what you are advocating is something along the lines of “Yale or jail”, which I have always found absurd, as is:

    The dude who studied the useless major that’s best left for a master’s degree program is still “better” in the eyes of many because he has a degree and spent four years in college learning. He’s considered to be “refined” with “critical thinking skills”.

    However, in the latter case it’s not your advocacy, but the fact that it is true that makes society absurd, and it is THAT which needs to be changed.

    Of course, there are always those my brother used to call “macho snobs”. You know who they are (“I don’t need your fancy-ass book-learnin’. I work with my hands!”)–the ones who think that if you’re not building something or driving a truck you’re not really working. I suppose those who educate their kids, arrange their loans to buy a house or a car, or prosecute criminals aren’t working either.

    As for Caribbean immigrants, many have an attitude, but it’s a healthy attitude toward work, and perhaps that explains why American-born blacks hate them so much.

    PS. If you ever run for anything, you’ve got my vote.

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  95. David, what you are advocating is something along the lines of “Yale or jail”, which I have always found absurd, as is:

    “Yale or jail” is a big issue that permeates the Affirmative Action debates. There are some talents black youths who are going to schools where they don’t have the skills to cope, but are being passed to filled minority “quotas”. The question that comes up is that is it better to have these students go to ultra-selective schools where they’ll network with the future powerbrokers, but have a higher chance of failure, or is it better for these students to go to schools where they’re a better fit academically, and they become comfortable, yet powerless members of the middle class with higher success rates for the group overall. It’s a dillemma for those of us in the “community”, and for the administrators of these policies at colleges and universities

    However, in the latter case it’s not your advocacy, but the fact that it is true that makes society absurd, and it is THAT which needs to be changed.

    I may be an elitist snob, but my grandmother infused within us a respect for those who workhard regardless of their social class or what they do.

    Obviously, I’m pro-immigrant due to my immigrant orgins, but I really do question the need for a large population of illegal immigrants who do push down the price of wages for native born AND legal immigrants who do blue collar labour. In turn, I do question the free trade movement and the outsourcing of lower white collar and blue collar labour from the United States.

    As for Caribbean immigrants, many have an attitude, but it’s a healthy attitude toward work, and perhaps that explains why American-born blacks hate them so much.

    I think it’s because we have the immigrant ethic, and I guess the selective filter of immigration means that the smarter members of the community have left the Islands, and I suspect that for many of us, we grew up with hard working parents, and we want better than that for ourselves. Plus, we have a real ethnic identity and culture instead of the fake Africanized one that blacks in the US have cooked up for themselves. We’re used to having black people run things back home on the Islands, and the idea of us running things here doesn’t seem as foreign. Even those of us who “screw up” know we’re doing wrong, and we feel we can do better.

    Interestingly, the third richest nation in North America is Barbados, and the richest black nations in the world are in Caribbean. Apparently, selling white people paradise, bauxite, refined oil products, and financial management free of taxation is profitable.

    PS. If you ever run for anything, you’ve got my vote.

    Like I told my Wellesley Queen, I can’t be a politician. I would become drunk off my own power and my term will end in disgrace that makes Nixon’s little escapes look like a sad joke. Plus, to become a politician requires too many compromises to pander to various established factions to the point where you can’t exercise a sound policy that can benefit all. In turn, if you’re black, the best hope of winning office is to pander to Al Sharpton, lest he get his political allies to refer to you as a “sell out” and Uncle Tom…

    Maybe in Canada, I’d bother running, but not in the US at anything above the municipal level.

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  96. Why are SYFs in the United States—the Rome of the New Girl Order—still so interested in marriage?

    Uh, maybe because they reap ALL the benefits from it?

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  97. […] prefers to date younger women. He clarifies that they are all legal so he’s not a […]

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  98. […] wanting to screw miserable, infertile old hags makes a man beta? Somebody should alert Roissy and Roosh – they’ve been living a […]

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