November 2009 Beta Of The Month

We’re getting near the end of the year when the final beta — the One Beta to rule them all — is voted upon for inclusion into the pussywhipped Hall of Infamy. Last month’s winner, sent in by reader waysa, was the Croatian tennis “pro” (loosely defined) who begged and pleaded not just for sex, but for marriage!, from a has-been single mom cougar. Let’s hope for the Croat’s sake he was angling for the future divorce payday from his wealthy older lady lover.

November 2009 BOTM Candidate #1 was submitted by Mike (“Anonymous” technically got there first, but any submission signed anonymously is excluded from receiving props). A picture tells a thousand words:

The great thing about this picture is that no matter what the reason for this unfortunate man’s prostration, his action sullies him with the mark of the beta. And a really nauseating beta at that. If he lost a bet, he is a beta for playing poor odds that would result in him paying up in such a pathetic manner. If it’s a fetish, then this is proof that some fetishes are the domain of losers. If you must have a fetish, make it something alpha like collaring your woman. Beta fetishes: peeping tom/voyeurism, flashing, bang my wife, wearing women’s skin as suit and tucking junk between legs. Alpha fetishes: BDSM, amateur porn filmmaking, public sex, ceiling mirrors, saying “giggity” when you successfully close the deal.

If he’s doing it as penance for some horrible relationship transgression, he wins alpha points for the transgression but immediately gives them back and then some for agreeing to this form of punishment. If he’s doing it as a clownish joke to get on the internet, well… there are some self-deprecating jokes that you should never do. Good rule of thumb: If the Jackass guys won’t do it, neither should you.

If this photo portrays exactly what is happening — a sackless boyfriend dropping to hands and knees so his tired girlfriend can sit on him and humiliate him in public — then the beta on display here is so strong it defies explanation.

******

November 2009 BOTM Candidate #2 was submitted by Ross W. Have you ever wondered what happens when an inborn beta becomes a little too aggressively creepy in his pursuit of a taken woman? Well now, thanks to Lamebook, you can read a stellar example of just such a specimen.

lee

I’m not going to categorize all the ways this guy Andrew misunderstands the nature of women. Suffice to say, he fails the Jumbotron test. Spectacularly.

By the way, Carla’s reply was better than Lee’s. Brevity is the soul of spit.

******

November 2009 BOTM Candidate #3 was submitted by Patrick. It’s a radio broadcast of a “War of the Roses” prank that features a cuckolded man literally begging his cheating live-in girlfriend to stay with him. Listen to the whole thing but pay particular attention starting at -02:50.

I honestly had a hard time making it through to the end, it was that bad. If I had to distill the beta essence in a few words, it would be “What can I do to make you love me?” Which is what this pathetic cur says. Over and over. Even after being told his mewling is not helping his cause.

The problem with betas is that they believe in the promise of hope instead of the disenchantment of reality. Listen to this guy closely. He finds all this evidence that his GF is cheating — the birth control, the new lingerie, the Facebook emails — and yet he continues nurturing hope that she isn’t doing what he knows deep inside she’s doing, and that she still has the capacity to love him. Hope is the great alpha killer, the destroyer of masculinity, the betrayer of dignity. It serves one purpose only — to trick you away from the path of righteous self interest. Weak people cling to hope. But hope is a faint siren song; as soon as you taste some success you will forget all about hope and wallow in the delights of reality.

Besides serving as cruel amusement for the coliseum, there is another very good reason for publicly shaming these wretched betas: their needy behavior feeds the treachery of women, which in turn poisons the well for every other man making his way in the mating market. By refusing to confront his bitch whore girlfriend in the only way that would earn any respect from her (and respect from women is measured in the oscillation of their tingle wavelength), the man in this radio clip unwittingly contributes to the romantic feelings between his girlfriend and her lover. Freed from the threat of his anger or his ultimatums or even his awareness, she is able to nourish her illicit love affiair with the thrill of secrecy and dangerous rendezvous. As we all know about women, a little mystery and taboo goes a long way to infusing a man with allure. You want your unfaithful girlfriend to really get the most out of her affair? Simple. Just play the fool and let her sneak around like a tramp in the night, her lover’s embrace made all the more compelling by the transgressive narrative. But confront her and leave her, and suddenly her lover is not so intriguing anymore.

There’s a reason women despise men like this guy Conor from the radio clip. When a woman cheats on you she does not want to hear that you still love her. All that tells her is that you have low standards and an even lower expectation that you could do better. It also confirms her suspicion that you love her for no other reason than the sex that she provides. Of course, alpha males also love for those shallow reasons, but they are smart enough to know that love can’t be requested. It must be earned.

******

The voting:

Who is the November 2009 Beta of the Month winner?







Comments


  1. on December 13, 2009 at 11:56 pm Dec BOTM: XSPLAT

    I vote for xsplat coz he spends way too much time trying to counter what people post here about him.

    “What kid that young will understand the concept of respect, or even what goes on in his mother’s bedroom?”

    You’d be surprised!

    Like


  2. The problem with betas is that they believe in the promise of hope instead of the disenchantment of reality.

    What would most men do if told that Ptolemy were right, that the sun circled the earth?

    Seriously, eat a dick. I’ll meet you for coffee sometime.

    Carla’s husband is the beta of the month.

    Like


  3. I already voted for the Facebook stalker, but on second thought that is the most common form of romantic beta that single motherhood and disney cartoons produce. I should have listened to the last entry before voting!

    Actually it isn’t as objectivley bad as the first pic, but the first pic dosen’t force the average beta to confront himself (since he can say to himself “I’d never let my gf use me as a piece of furnitiure in a non-sexual way!” yeah right).

    What is truly remarkable in the last one is that the guy is so submisive and acts so contrary to how one should that I almost feel simpathy for the cheating little user and I bet most of the listners of the show did as well. 50 years ago they may have pretended this was not the case, but today slut shaming dosen’t really exist so they will probably be quite honest.

    Jesus, listen to the last entry and vote for him! Its unbelivable.

    Like


  4. A tiny sliver of the Betalumpen that infest the Anglosphere.

    Like


  5. feministbex is Susan Walsh.

    Like


  6. Carla’s husband handled it very very wrongly. I think he would have been better off being quiet.

    I would probably just tell her in private with disgust in my eyes: “You dated this guy?” or on second thought joked “Awww your High School stalker feels lonley. Give him a hug or something.” /laughs with her/

    But I recognize that neither is proper game. I suck at relationship game, does anyone with lots of relationship exp have any ideas?

    Like


  7. Konkvistador’s comment counts as seconding my nomination of Carla’s husband. It’s high time a write-in candidate won an election, folks. Vote!

    Like


  8. Facebook stalker gets my vote. So many words, so much cowardice.

    Like


  9. Carla: “Andy, I’m married. I don’t think about you”

    Every omega, beta and romantic souled ponce should take heed just how UN-romantic and UN-sentimental even the most feminine and groomed woman can be when she has chirstened her Ex with the Mark of the Beast. No mercy.

    That said, Andy’s screed reminded me of my feeling for Clio.

    P.S. Makes sense that Dude 3’s name is Conor. Fag.

    P.P.S. If that really is Susan Walsh, SHE can eat a dick. She can eat a big fat dick. Yenta.

    Like


  10. OMG I LOL’D

    Like


  11. The Facebook stalker is just desperate to get laid and since his brain is fried with romantic garbage he simply dosen’t know better. The woman probably isn’t too attractive since the husband seems beta too.

    On He didn’t spend 4 years supporting and alienating a woman he “loves” and then plead with her on a local radio show asking her “how can I make this work?”.

    I don’t think he deserves the nomination, even though I originally voted for him.

    Like


  12. Holy shit, that last one was like listening to nails being dragged across a blackboard.

    Like


  13. Does anyone else ever get depressed reading such anti-game dealings with women?

    Like


  14. 1 – extremely lame, but I can see a ‘goofy’ kind of guy doing it and not thinking twice.

    2 – emotional instability + neediness + dry streak

    3 – …

    Carla’s husband is the beta of the month.

    Some people here live in a bizarro world – the husband said, a little verbosely, I’ll beat your ass if you come near my wife. Just fine.

    Good fucking riddance, keyboard jockeys.

    Like


  15. @ Konkvistador

    How is the husband beta ?
    so he responded to the guy’s post, so what

    @ Tupac Chopra

    it’s like a switch is pulled down and you go from the greatest thing since sliced bread to the worst thing that ever happened to her.

    Like


  16. Stalkerboy. There are women attracted to kneeling guys (especially if they’re straining under the weight but still manfully showing their devotion… I’ll be in my bunk…) and I feel sorry for cheaterboy. He might be beta, but it’s not his fault he dated a faithless and disloyal woman.

    Hopeless lost loves are considered romantic if he suffers in silence, I’ve found, but long confession emails just sound desperate. Better to find a different girl and practice Hopeless Love With Someone Else Game. Wistful stares off into the distance, a slight hesitancy before you kiss, a memento you refuse to explain a few mysterious comments carefully calibrated so as to seem lovelorn not bitter, a few manful tears when she finally worms the story out of you– and a few weeks later saying that the other girl was a bitch and it’s good you lost her so you could find your real true love. (Obviously not good for getting pump-and-dumps.)

    Also, what happened to the MILF/DILF post? Our distinguished host not able to bear disagreement?
    [editor: a friend mentioned the girl might be underage, so i took it down. she looked older to me, but upon closer inspection there was a possibility that she was under 18. as for the disagreement, i still stand by my assessment that the mom was hotter, but i concede a strong case could be made for the daughter.]

    Like


  17. it’s like a switch is pulled down and you go from the greatest thing since sliced bread to the worst thing that ever happened to her.

    Stockholm syndrome, IME.

    Think about it: in ancient times, when a rival tribe would conquer a neighboring tribe, they would kill the menfolk and take their women. How in the world would those women be able to psychologically parse going from their original Love Of Their Life to Tucker Khan on his steed? They NEEDED to evolve an amoral and solipsistic mindset in order to acclimate to their new Alpha owners.

    Like


  18. on December 14, 2009 at 12:41 am unlearning genius ...

    “The problem with betas is that they believe in the promise of hope instead of the disenchantment of reality”

    We all to some extent romanticize and glamorize life .. Lots of guys think that duplicating the behaviors of high status men can make them high status .. for some this might work, but for many it is somewhat of a fantasy .. But the universe’s joke is that we can notice this behavior in others better than we can in ourselves … I do not think I have succeeded in living a life “totally” in tune with reality ..perhaps in due time, meanwhile a nice zen quote to this effect.

    “Before you study Zen, mountains are mountains and rivers are rivers; while you are studying zen, mountains are no longer mountains and rivers are no longer rivers; but once you have had enlightenment, mountains are once again mountains and rivers again rivers”

    Like


  19. Less Negativity!

    Put out some positive game-related stuff now and then. Picking on those weaker than yourself can only be funny for so long before you seem bitter.

    Something I learned in a comedy troupe. Holds true though.
    [editor: come on man, i’ve been doing the BOTM for a year and now you complain? “picking on” these betas is amusing, but it’s also a public service intended to show men what not to do. in a way, i am bringing forth the light of the lord unto the world. betas gotta multiply too.]

    Like


  20. Put out some positive game-related stuff now and then. Picking on those weaker than yourself can only be funny for so long before you seem bitter.

    Right: rainbows, gumdrops and ponies for ALL.

    I love Peter Pan.

    Like


  21. I think the facebooker could be a fallen lesser alpha or greater beta though based on his description and that this is a moment of random weakness. Clearly the third guy takes the cake

    Like


  22. Hey, what happened to the MILF/DILF post?

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  23. n/m

    Like


  24. What’s crazy to me is how BOTM seems to get worse and worse each week.

    #1 BY FAR….that’s public humiliation…

    Like


  25. each month*

    Like


  26. “Some people here live in a bizarro world – the husband said, a little verbosely, I’ll beat your ass if you come near my wife.”

    There exist no men who beat ass who also say “It may interest you to know.” Or, “I’m aware of all the ones who meant something to her.”

    Like


  27. Vote is clearly for #3.

    “MAN UP!”

    Folks, this one is not contest. Anyone not voting for 3 has to seriously spend some time recalibrating their assessment of betatude.

    btw, i’m looking forward to Roissy’s response on the situation with the LTR at the bar with her ex-coworker.
    [editor: i will have my responses to the previous “test of your game” posts in the coming days.]

    Like


  28. All pathetic. But at least the second guy is an eloquent writer. Carla’s response is classic.

    I’ll vote for 1st entry. The third guy was stunningly beta (“what can I do?”), but the first is just beyond compare. The third guy is desperate for a companionship that he sees falling away. It’s probable that the woman in question is quite attractive (most golddiggers are), so at least his response is rational, assuming he’s oblivious to the edicts of game.

    But the first guy: I can’t even formulate words to describe this behavior. Honestly, I’m at a loss. Is there even a verb that describes lowering your value that much?

    Like


  29. There is no question that all of these guys are being beta , but number 3 is the only one of these guys whose whole situation we can tell is beta.

    I’m sure a lot of guys who normally do well with women have a weak spot for the girl whom they abused and let slip away ect… the girl’s cold response may even imply that she is still angry with him over crap he did to her… so angry as to not even mention him to her husband when they were going over past lives. He left her, he treated her poorly, he may have even cheated on her ect… ect… and a lot of time has passed

    with the first guy, who really knows what the fuck is going on. it’s beta but we don’t have enough info about the overall situation to know just how beta.
    The third guy is a whiney ingratiating bitch even after suffering the ultimate betrayal. We can extrapolate that this behavior was present in the relationship and helped lead his girl astray.

    Like


  30. @OneSTDV

    “But the first guy: I can’t even formulate words to describe this behavior. Honestly, I’m at a loss.”

    I honestly think the first one is some kind of photo trick. No guy is that beta.

    I voted for the first one as well it’s way beyond the “normal beta”.

    If it is in fact a real photo, I bet its like Femdom-ish roleplaying that they are going public with… No way a man in real relationship is like that.

    Like


  31. Roissy,

    Are we ever going to get a post on your thoughts of the Other World Kingdom?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_World_Kingdom
    http://www.owk.cz/index.htm

    It’s a micronation within the Czech Republic where women enslave men.

    Like


  32. on December 14, 2009 at 1:55 am msexceptiontotherule

    Not only does candidate #3 present his intentions as being *way* different (“I want to give her a piece of my mind”, v. the truth: “What do I have to do to make this work”)
    but he straight up asks her “What do I have to do to make this work”.

    This is precisely why I think that any individual, female or male, should financially stand on their own two feet (or at least only seek support from their own relatives if they can’t manage to find adequate funding through work or charitable means.). Never spend years spending someone else’s money when you plan on taking off after you’ve sufficiently siphoned all you can. Of course, this is in conjunction with maintaining separate bank accounts, even if married, because everyone should have their own money – even if married, in which case the hope is that the couple has enough presence of mind to take care of a monthly budget and set the necessary funds aside for those things before they deposit money into accounts that are specifically for themselves to use exclusively.

    Like


  33. on December 14, 2009 at 2:01 am Harmonious Jim

    Three classic mating mutts. Number one tries being a gentleman, but is a peon. Number two tries dazzling her with eloquence, but should keep his scribbling to his private poetry journal. Number three tries begging, and gets the contempt due a lowly beggar.

    The lowest of the low, betaest of the betas, is always the beggar.

    Like


  34. on December 14, 2009 at 2:10 am Gen'l Butt Naked

    The Facebook emailer attempted a misguided effort to pick up a woman attached to another man. Fairly low-effort though, and absolutely without cost. We can’t really know his inner motive as we can with the third example, the caller, and see his posture, as with the first.

    Who knows, perhaps it’s a form letter that he sends to every woman he met his freshman year in college. Perhaps a woman who nibbles at his weak bait shows up in the coffee-shop and finds a game spitting machine.

    Thanks for the link to Lamebook, though. Never heard of it before. And I found this far more worthy candidate:

    http://www.lamebook.com/more-baby-stuff-belly-job

    LOL

    Like


  35. on December 14, 2009 at 2:18 am unlearning genius ...

    “[editor: come on man, i’ve been doing the BOTM for a year and now you complain? “picking on” these betas is amusing, but it’s also a public service intended to show men what not to do. in a way, i am bringing forth the light of the lord unto the world. betas gotta multiply too.]”

    I am with Roissy on this one! The visceral disgust aroused by these acts guard us from slipping into the beta abyss. We all are prone to beta slippage on occasion. He is making fun of the “beta” element not of these people themselves.

    beta #1) Have you never been guilty of surrendering a tiny bit of your ego to please some woman? a metaphorical being a pony of sorts? Of course you have.

    beta #2) Have you never sent a long winded email in hopes of getting poon? Of course you have

    beta #3) Have you never attempted to bring back a flagging association through self deprecation of some kind? Of course you have.

    Like


  36. I loved the radio guy’s comments telling the dude to man up.

    I felt no sympathy for #3. He didn’t love her, he loved the status she gave him. No doubt she was the most attractive, perhaps only, woman he has been with. His motivations and emotions were not genuine – they comprised of mere fear of losing an asset that he had bought with money, in the absence of any other quality he could offer a girl.

    The partner of a woman he truly loves would find his attraction instantly disintegrate upon hearing of her infidelities. His pleadings are more akin to a business transaction ‘what can I do to make this work?’ (albeit, by a horrible negotiator) than a true soulmate.

    Like


  37. what seals the deal for #3 is that he says he wants to tell the bitch off before he talks to her, and then the second he comes on he turns into a simpering bitch.

    he knew the right thing to do, but was too weak to do it, despite how easy it could have been.

    i nominate him for immediate castration

    Like


  38. “I can confront her – if that’s what she wants.”

    WOW.

    Vote for #3.

    Like


  39. The MILF/DILF should be put back up for historical interest (black the daughter’s face out if necessary). Basically the mother is in the last stages where her knowledge of how to accentuate her strengths and use of feminine body language can overcome the daughter’s fertile youthfulness. The daughter had a graceless, gangly quality (not to mention large head and facial features) if she grows more into her face she’ll be stunning, if she doesn’t she’ll be okay looking (but she looks _very_ fertile like she’d get pregnant at the drop of a hat).

    On this, the first picture looks more like public performance art than anything else.

    The second guy seems to be making a horribly executed attempt at ‘tortured soul’ game, which can be very effective. For his sake I hope he’s just practicing on random strangers or ex’s before he tries it out in real life, he needs a lot of work.

    The third guy by a mile. Worthless whore that the girlfriend is, I was actually more sympathetic to her than the guy, whose lack of interest in maintaining any level of human dignity is repulsive at an almost primeval level.

    In other news: Roissy idol Silvio just got his face bashed in by a mentally ill guy using a minature model of the Milan Cathedral. For a guy so vain about his looks, that broken nose has gotta hurt.

    corriere.it/politica/09_dicembre_13/berlusconi-colpito-al-viso-da-manifestante_0cd154c4-e80e-11de-8657-00144f02aabc.shtml

    Like


  40. OneSTDV

    All pathetic. But at least the second guy is an eloquent writer. Carla’s response is classic.

    Eloquent?! You could use his writing as an example of how not to write. Too many adjectives, muddly visuals, droning on and on. No punch, no rhythm, no bite. Imagine his words as lyrics. Can’t do it.

    Like


  41. it was painful to listen to that podcast. when he was talking to his girlfriend, his voice reminded me of that little bug from Boston Legal season 1. somehow, I had the reaction to hit the guy. and I’m not violent.

    Like


  42. Eumaios

    “Some people here live in a bizarro world – the husband said, a little verbosely, I’ll beat your ass if you come near my wife.”

    There exist no men who beat ass who also say “It may interest you to know.” Or, “I’m aware of all the ones who meant something to her.”

    Agreed.

    Like


  43. “What can I do to make you love me?”

    Ironically, the whole study of Game is about figuring this out, because triggering love in a girl is what gets ALL the goodies.

    Funny how doing it is alpha whereas asking it is beta.

    Like


  44. Amazing new Beta stories.

    It is not bitter at all. If the intent is to learn men what is wrong about being beta like the facebook guy, or the radio guy this is indeed a public service.

    The more guys who break the line and succumb to women like this pollute the world. Imagine a world where all men would be able to hold on to their pride enough so that situations like this would not happen. I think that women would not even try to test men like this. They would of course test us at other areas but the world as a whole would be a better place.

    Like


  45. KJW, I think most of us learn the hard way. I suspect most men start out their dating careers as foolish betas. The internet really speeds up the learning curve.

    It’s the same for expats. A lot of us get eaten alive, at first – women can be predatory. Sharing stories through the net totally changes the balance of power. Knowledge is power.

    Like


  46. Things in #3 that REALLY made me cringe:

    – The uptalking at 1:22. “she’s on birth control!!!!”, “she bought lingerie!!!!!!”. Fag talk
    – At 1:43 he unloads a torrent of “like”, “you know?”, “right?” of approval seeking from the host
    – 2:08 he is asked his first real question and starts the “um”, “I mean” and other indecisive placeholders to avoid talking straight. His little beta brain needs time to rationalise.
    – At 2:40 he wants help to confront her. Maybe if he’d given more notice his mum could’ve held his hand too.
    – At 2:50 he wants to tell her what he “thinks”. Alphas just say what IS.

    – 5:16 he frames his first confrontation as “Did you think I wouldn’t find out?”. Kinda weak.
    – 5:50 he is blatantly having the DJ do all of the work and lead the interaction. Definitely not hitting the leader-of-men attraction trigger as he hides behind DJ’s trouser leg.
    – The twenty second outlining of her solipsistic mercenary attitude ending 6:37 should’ve had him reaching for his pistol.

    But then, yeah, I start sympathising with her from 6:50 when she says “Just listen to him”. And fair play to her for giving a nice outline of what women want from 7:40.

    Like


  47. Wow number 3 got his soul crushed.

    Holy fuck with the:

    “What can I do to make you love me”

    She did the famous put me through college and pay my bills so I don’t have to worry bout shit move on his ass.

    Then is like oh yea about to graduate well nice knowing ya and thanks for making life so easy.

    Although hey goes to show how college game works just have loot. Everything comes down to loot in the end.

    If he needed to fuck her still so bad he should have said ok you were using me thats cool. Keep being my hooker and I’ll give ya 50 cents per time I come.

    he he he

    “I’ll stand up to her if she wants me to”

    Dang

    Whats crazy is the chick said everyone does it on the using lol

    Like


  48. That verbose facebook message is uttely puke-inducing; and worst of all, the sheer puke-inducery of it is outside the awareness of that insular navel gazing twat.

    But no. 3 takes the vote.

    Like


  49. I voted for no.2 but in hindsight, and after listening to the radio broadcast, no.3 wins hands down!

    no.1 is interesting but as someone here said, it lacks context so we don’t know exactly what is going on in his mind.

    this is one of the best BOTM contests, me says

    Like


  50. Clearly it’s #3.

    As Roissy said, #1 can at least be spun as a beta attempt to make restitution for cheating.

    #2 is a beta attempt to weasel his way into her panties.

    #3 is difficult to spin.

    Like


  51. on December 14, 2009 at 6:16 am gunslingergregi

    ””””””’Welmer
    Eumaios

    “Some people here live in a bizarro world – the husband said, a little verbosely, I’ll beat your ass if you come near my wife.”

    There exist no men who beat ass who also say “It may interest you to know.” Or, “I’m aware of all the ones who meant something to her.”

    Agreed.
    ”””””””

    Yea it might have been better if he had taken a page from the way things go down at the carter.

    Don’t talk to much about fucking someone up. If your at the point where you are gonna punch someone in the face just do it.

    Course as you see the dude did it for no reason. I mean wtf at least have a reason for it.

    Like


  52. on December 14, 2009 at 6:24 am gunslingergregi

    Course this video was shown to me by a black dude because the dude said “word to my motha nigga”
    Which is pretty fucking funny.

    Like


  53. on December 14, 2009 at 6:34 am Phenomenal One

    I voted for #3

    also the husband in #2 did’nt even threaten the guy, he basically just said ” hey, i know what you’re tryin to do and it ain’t gonna work”.

    Like


  54. on December 14, 2009 at 6:40 am gunslingergregi

    ””””’also the husband in #2 did’nt even threaten the guy”””””’

    Really you think he wanted to meet him for coffee sometime to discuss weather he he he

    Like


  55. You should have Lee the husband as an option as well. It’s very beta to respond to Andrew’s message in the manner he did. Like he sees this former boyfriend as a threat, when he’s obvilously a massive beta with no weight.

    Like


  56. on December 14, 2009 at 6:45 am gunslingergregi

    What he should have done is let his wife go out with the dude. Then in the middle run up and knock the guy the fuck out. Given his wife a nice memory for the rest of her life.

    Like


  57. WHERE ARE THE ANSWERS TO THE TEST OF GAME????

    Like


  58. Also, something worth talking about here on #2:

    The women’s answer was not at all prompted by her marital status, but rather by the lameness of the initital message.

    In fact, I think the right response from a married women to a guy asking to get coffee is probably just to ignore it.

    Like


  59. on December 14, 2009 at 7:23 am gunslingergregi

    ””””””’GK
    You should have Lee the husband as an option as well. It’s very beta to respond to Andrew’s message in the manner he did. Like he sees this former boyfriend as a threat, when he’s obvilously a massive beta with no weight.
    ””””””’

    Well the wife was actually being a good girl and passing shit like that on to her man for him to do with as he pleases after she already made it unequivicle that:

    “Andy. I’m Married. I don’t think about you.”

    Not like she kept a conversation with the dude then told her man about it to get him to fight. She deballed the guy then relayed that info to husband. So yea a keeper.

    He actually didn’t have to do shit but just saying he could have put some icing on the cake for his woman.

    Like


  60. #1 Human chair guy

    This is the weakest of the submissions. Real betas don’t do something as crazy as acting as a human chair on a train. My guess is that this is just some sort of joke and the guy and girl were just having some fun. This is on the level of some sort of stupid frat prank. Yes, doing a prank in public is silly, but I don’t see this as beta behavior.

    #2 Facebook Stalker

    Boldness is an alpha trait, but persistence (i.e., stalking) is a beta trait.

    The post by beta boy represents an almost perfect example of anti-game. As game is the theory and practice of establishing higher value, this post is an ode to demonstrating lower value. Beta boy puts his ex on a pedestal (you are deep, passionate, brilliant, gorgeous, etc.) while he simultaneously lowers himself to the gutter as he describes himself (depressed, confused, fearful, fragile, etc.) Of course, the poor beta poor is simply following the standard mainstream relationship advice that the way to a woman’s heart is to put her on a pedestal as you worship her as a magical goddess. Little does beta boy realize that such actions just make him look like a worm in her eyes.

    Beta boy did have the guts to try to seduce her even though she was recently married. And based on my experience, married women are actually easier to seduce than single women. However, Beta Boy needs to learn that women go through a four year mating cycle. If he played his cards right he could have probably easily seduced her again within four years. But the timing of his seduction is too early.

    Facebook Stalker was my initial choice. Yeah, he is a pleading Beta, but at least he had the sense not to marry this woman. While his Facebook ode is embarrassing at least he won’t get stuck with the alimony and child support that this woman will suck out of her current hapless husband.

    #3 War of the Roses Beta

    This beta wins my vote. The purpose of this show is to allow this guy to humiliate his cheating, skanky girlfriend in public. This could have been the opposite of proposing in public – this was his chance to tell her to fuck off in public. A way to restore a measure of his manhood.

    Instead this beta ends up begging and groveling for his cheating girlfriend (who has admitted to using him) to stay. This display is so obnoxiously beta that even the mainstream host finds his behavior embarrassing and repulsive.

    On a side note, it is interesting to see a woman’s true nature on display. Despite the mainstream propaganda, women are quite cruel and have zero compassion for men. As a man, you should look at a woman as a sexual toy and nothing more.

    Like


  61. hahahahahahaaa, number 3, hands fucking down.

    he is so despicably beta that any feeling of disgust, contempt or righteous anger normally reserved for such behaviour is overridden by an overwhelming desire to just point and laugh. its like watching spectacular wipe outs, or jackass. you cringe but you also giggle.

    i especially love the part where he’s like ‘oh i can stand up to her… if that’s what she wants’. too funny

    Like


  62. @Phenomenal One:

    I never said he was Beta, other people did. What I did say is that he handled the situation wrongly. I do admit, if she said the guy scared her posting a message like that would be the proper response. But I don’t get the feeling she was scared.

    Like


  63. Re #2,

    At first I supported Hubby’s actions, but on second thought I think there is a problem: Hubby’s letter made Andy “the guy who my husband has to fight off.” In some ways, Hubby’s letter mitigates the betaness of Andy’s first letter in Carla’s mind.

    Andy won’t be getting any from Carla right now…but if he cuts the whiny, over sensitive shit out…he has a shot in the future.

    Additionally, don’t you think its a little odd that Carla NEVER mentioned Andy to her husband?

    Madras Maxim #1: A married women who isnt AT ALL interested, won’t respond AT ALL.

    Andy needs to grow a pair, but Carla’s hubby is in long term trouble (if not from Andy, from somebody.)

    That said, 3 wins for sure.

    Like


  64. “That will do it, Connor” 😀

    Like


  65. Seriusly I’m saving no.3 he is a textbook example of unattractive or should I say downright repulsive submisive behaviour.

    Like


  66. [From candidate #3’s phone call]:

    “I could stand up to her if that’s what she wants.”

    I think that might be the best quote I’ve heard in a long time.

    Like


  67. I love this dark, dry, sardonic prose. To me this is one of the highest forms of humor. Comedy is black.

    Facebook Stalker was my initial choice. Yeah, he is a pleading Beta, but at least he had the sense not to marry this woman. While his Facebook ode is embarrassing at least he won’t get stuck with the alimony and child support that this woman will suck out of her current hapless husband.

    Like


  68. It was good to delete the MILF/DILF post – there are better examples that Roissy could present and the reason he deleted it was a good one.

    On this BOTM contest:

    1) An alpha male with 3 gfs will often do that – it costs him nothing and it might help her believe she’s the only one. He’s beta only if she *is* the only one.

    Being a little beta throws them off the scent…makes them feel more secure. I’m even convinced that some Congressmen betray males by voting for radical feminist laws because they want to divert attention from their activities – but it crosses the line when you betray other males directly by being beta in this way.

    Also, in that other post about meeting the 2 male friends at a bar – if you frame it properly, you will see that you would not want to create 2 male spies by meeting them at all. They’d likely not have your best interest at heart if they saw you across town 3 weeks later with a secret squeeze. You also don’t hand out your business card to a gfs friends and family making it easy for them to be reminded to Google you.

    2) We have all written a long letter, surely not self-debasing like this, but it still went nowhere because the right thing to do would be to make a phone call. This example provides the best lesson for readers: Never write when you can call.

    He would have won but for the competition this month. The husband responded perfectly – you guys who advocate violence might end up in prison some day and you are hurting your own interest by advocating such violence when an alpha might expect to be on the receiving end of a jealous beta or, God forbid, alpha some day.

    BTW, the guy in that other post who sent texts to his neighbor to get a date was being beta by not actually calling. It is well known that women reject men who are afraid to call and text instead. That is, in fact, a test. That being said, the neighbor’s reaction was the reason I live in Eastern Europe. It was way too US East Coast arrogant. Succeeding as an alpha with her would only be temporary. It is a mistake to confuse a shrew with a challenge.

    3) This needs to go viral because it represents the type of guy who votes Democrat when the Democrats are 100% controlled by the NOW, which tells women to do that to men. This is the BOTM winner (Darwin Award winner as well if the Darwins were chosen by a male, which they aren’t).

    It is nice to know that pay-thru-college is still viable. Her admission made it clear the feminist message is NOT getting through except for the desire to be shamelessly honest which is OK in itself.

    Like


  69. Best post in weeks, Roissy!

    I vote for number two. I hate wordy letters where men supplicate themselves to women.

    Anyway, it’s the best post because of stuff like this, where you philosophize a litte and go just a tad beyond the “game” thing, like this part:

    “The problem with betas is that they believe in the promise of hope instead of the disenchantment of reality. Listen to this guy closely. He finds all this evidence that his GF is cheating — the birth control, the new lingerie, the Facebook emails — and yet he continues nurturing hope that she isn’t doing what he knows deep inside she’s doing, and that she still has the capacity to love him. Hope is the great alpha killer, the destroyer of masculinity, the betrayer of dignity. It serves one purpose only — to trick you away from the path of righteous self interest. Weak people cling to hope. But hope is a faint siren song; as soon as you taste some success you will forget all about hope and wallow in the delights of reality.”

    Honestly, the worst parts of Lord of the Rings were Gaydalf talking about Hope and “a fool’s hope” and blah blah blah. And this is after he pwned that demon too.

    But this part:
    “It also confirms her suspicion that you love her for no other reason than the sex that she provides. Of course, alpha males also love for those shallow reasons, but they are smart enough to know that love can’t be requested. It must be earned.”

    Don’t get too misty on us there, Roissy. The right word was “taken”, not “earned”, and “a good fuck” not “love” Let’s try it on for size:

    “…A GOOD FUCK can’t be requested. It must be TAKEN.”

    Much better.

    Like


  70. I just contradicted myself in the analysis of #3 because the NOW contradicts itself: their main drive is to stop older men from being with younger women but they support the fleecing of men via cold-hearted use of relationships.

    I’d also second the guy who just noted that #2 is less beta than the husband because #2 has just made a huge blunder he might learn from (although he clearly needs a lot of work). The husband is the one who is married, however. Nuff said.

    Like


  71. #3 FTW. When you set out to humiliate your cheating girlfriend in public but instead humiliate yourself in the process then you are a shining example of BoTM.

    #2: I cannot read ’cause its blocked by the company firewall but there’s nothing like hearing the voices of the weak, trembling and high pitched like a little girl’s saying, “What can I do to make you love me?” PATHETIC. Reinforces #3 FTW.

    #1: Is either a perfect allegory of the state of married men in America or a game of drunk twister gone terribly wrong.

    Like


  72. Now that I think about it, I am beginning to agree with most people here…

    #1 is sooo over the top that it can’t be real.

    I’ll go with #3…

    Like


  73. It is quite obvious that, in #1, the woman is *pregnant* and none of the assholes sitting in seats would stand up so she could sit her fainting ass down. The human chair guy was shaming them. Very effectively. Anyone who didn’t catch this immediately is a beta at heart, lacking understanding of the primordial alpha urge to protect their pregnant woman, and missing the alpha-detection filters of a true alpha.

    (You bunch of pregnant-woman-abusing betas. Makes me sick!)

    Like


  74. Tough choice between the facebook hopeful guy and the radio guy.

    Before I heard the audio, I thought that I’d vote for facebook guy. Based on the thinnest thread of hope and impossible odds, he penned a rambling, lame missive for some girl he used to be with.

    I assumed that the radio guy was blindsided. He was sad, hurt, and beta. I thought he’d spew reactionary rationalizations.

    I was wrong, this guy confronted the girl on the radio, the predictable happened, and we heard how he handled it.

    Radio guy all the way. He planned this and it backfired. The spoken word beat the written word. Even though both of those moves are lame, and both of those moves beat out the metro guy.

    Like


  75. can you consider a fourth contender for late voting? http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=info&gid=191904666638

    Like


  76. I voted for #3.

    The recording is priceless. It perfectly illustrates the beta attitude and supplicating behavior designed to “buy” a woman’s love. It’s also priceless because the woman spells out perfectly what a woman wants…A man that will stand up to her, etc….

    I showed girlfriend the pic of BOTM#1. On the assumption that it’s a legit pic and not a set-up of some sort she says that the guy is a patsy. He is stupid and she is an adult who is more than capable of standing.

    Like


  77. All truly pathetic. None are fit to serve in a Vandal army. I find Andrew particularly appalling. I occasionally sinew together a pair of bones to form a more captive imagery of the general landscape but his epic poem is a highway pile up of cloying crap. I have never seen such a load of pretentious theatrical rubbish.

    “unlocking the dark dungeon of selfishness”

    LOL .Oh my word….He has awoken the swleeping dwagon of diswhire…

    Like


  78. #2, man. He actually wrote that in public, on someone’s facebook page?!

    I feel wanting to spread love in public is a beta sign. I know a couple whose facebook walls are full of love messages and “I so want to see you” and all that, mainly by the guy. I feel queasy just seeing it.

    Like


  79. Chateau Roissy is obviously a favorite stop for those who can stomach the nauseating state of the world today, but I have to say that strong countermeasures are required when reading these BOTM posts.

    For my part, I like to go way back, Don Draper back, and listen to a little Frankie Valli & The Four Seasons, “Walk Like A Man.” Seems like Beta #1 (for whom I voted btw), could use a little reminder that ‘no woman’s worth, crawling on the earth.’

    [editor: ha! this was a funny comment.]

    Like


  80. Oh my lord. #3 is a candidate for Beta of the Year. It’s beta enough that he let her get away with it for so long (lingerie! Dominican Republic!), but I thought he was at least going to man up and confront her and kick her to the curb.

    I almost feel pity for this man. A victim of modern society. Raised by lies and evil, taught to supplicate instead of sublimate.

    I mean, seriously, “I could stand up to her, if that’s what she wants” made me almost question whether it was just a complete joke on a radio show. 2 of the interns given the “roles” and told to act them out. I pray this is the case.

    Like


  81. Anyone who says anyone other than the radio guy is worst, clearly hasn’t listened to that clip. I was sickened by it. Sickened. My wife mocked him mercilessly as well. Then I gamed her and received the sweet benefits of well run game.
    That is what the Beta Conor needed to learn. If you listen to the radio guy you can tell how Alpha he is compared to Conor. He told her not to hang up and she didn’t.

    The husband in the facebook ones is probably a greater Beta/lesser Alpha who lost his cool when he saw that letter. The wife did handle it better, but her husband probably isn’t that bad normally.

    Like


  82. @ Konkvistador

    you are right. The husband shouldn´t have answered,

    Like


  83. Hope & Change!

    Like


  84. @ anonymous 12:10….that isn’t a public a post from facebook that’s a private message.

    Like


  85. Too many times I’ve taken the path of #2, although not as verbosely as he has. Every time I started writing the letter, I KNEW it was wrong, but was driven by a compulsion to do it anyway. My last one was five years ago, then I began reading game and PUA material and vowed to never make that mistake again…

    Like


  86. dude great choices for the beta of the month competition… it was though between the second and the third. I went for the third in the end coz the dude is really a disgrace to mankind…

    Like


  87. on December 14, 2009 at 12:50 pm No, never in da club

    1. We just don’t know enough. I have a feeling that A LOT of BOOZE was involved here. It was likely a drunken joke. I have a real hard time believing that this is a “nice guy” honestly providing a seat. Its clearly some sort of gag. Maybe the guy is beta, but still. We don’t know enough.

    2. Upon first read this sounds awful…and it may in fact be beta. But again, we don’t know Andy’s mind-set. If this was a lame attempt at gaming a married chick that is one thing, if he is being honest then that is far worse. However, my guess is this was his failed at attempt at getting her to cheat. If he is running game: It is bad game -awful game in fact -but not really beta, in the end still hitting on a married women. However, if he is being honest:…then yes, true beta.

    3. Clearly the winner.

    Like


  88. Another vote for Carla’s husband. The guy sounds like he has a serious problem. Andrew is a beta, and is very pathetic, but is reasonably eloquent and will be able to find a nerdy chick in a Starbucks who will read his stupid poems and emo song lyrics. The husband, on the other hand, sounds like a passive-aggressive beta. “Eat a dick?” WTF? His wife already took care of it, he is like the last piglet trying to fight to grab hold of a teat. If he would say anything at all, it should be a brief, sarcastic joke, like “she’s all your pal” or something. By responding so seriously to a non-threat via Facebook, it looks like a serious overreaction to the point the husband has far more social awkwardness than the initial guy.

    Like


  89. on December 14, 2009 at 12:54 pm Horatio Sanchez

    Still deciding on which one to pick, but in regards to #3: why do bitches love to use the “sick relative” excuse when they cheat? That’s how lowly they can be. “I’m going to visit my sick grandma” is apparently chick talk for “I’m going to gobble some new dick”.

    So guys, if a chick claims she’s going to see a sick relative, you better get proof or otherwise take charge. Tell her to get said relative’s slowly dying husk on the webcam, or you’re gonna spank her ass.

    Like


  90. This is by far one of the most hilarious Beta of the Month contests ever

    Like


  91. The husband, on the other hand, sounds like a passive-aggressive beta.

    that´s the word I was missing about Carla´s husband

    passive-agressive

    which is probably the most common psichological trait among western men today

    Like


  92. [editor: a friend mentioned the girl might be underage, so i took it down. she looked older to me, but upon closer inspection there was a possibility that she was under 18. as for the disagreement, i still stand by my assessment that the mom was hotter, but i concede a strong case could be made for the daughter.]

    So what? Not like she was nekkid.

    Like


  93. on December 14, 2009 at 1:18 pm No, never in da club

    There is a reason that so many western men are passive aggressive like the husband in #3: if they are actually aggressive in the west, they will end up in jail.

    Think about it, if her husband actually threatened to beat Andy up, there is a whole slow of pretty serious “cyber threat” laws that he could be nailed with.

    Part of the problem with western civ. right that Roissy should confront: Its perfectly legal for a guy to hit on your wife in front of you, but very illegal for you to punch him for it. This is a problem.

    Like


  94. Oh man, #3 is just absolutely brutal. I cringed.

    Like


  95. on December 14, 2009 at 1:21 pm No, never in da club

    I mean husband in #2 in my comment above at 1:18.

    Like


  96. Hey…I just noticed something pretty BIG about #2…Lee (husband) wrote back three minutes before Carla did.

    This leads me to believe that Carla’s response is not truly “from the heart” if you know what I mean….Carla’s response was written with Lee looking over her shoulder.

    Like


  97. On the DILF, it was very awkward for guys to say “I’d have to wait a few years” and it simply wasn’t an obvious example of a MILF being better. Good examples exist and I am sure Roissy will find them. But the norm is more instructive. I found that post something that supported pretty lies by being arguably an exception.

    Let me expand on the notion that a known alpha can and does sometimes act beta to calm, relax, divert, amuse or flatter another or others:

    1) Man meets toddler of friend/relative. Toddlers are fearful of alpha males instinctively. Primal instinct says he might toss them over a cliff after deciding they’re defective. A little later man gets on the floor on his stomach and puts his hands over his head saying “Don’t hurt me”. Toddler shrieks with job and climbs over alpha males head, back – sometimes in a combined attack with other toddlers. From then on, toddler(s) can’t wait for alpha male to visit parents. Parents respect the man immensely for having won over their kids. If the parent was a hot single mother, BINGO.

    2) Manager visits IT Department or Engineering in a mid-sized company. They *know* his gf or wife is gorgeous and he stays in 5 star hotels. He defers to them, acting shy…letting them be alphas in their environment. In some situations, if he doesn’t do this, his career can be derailed by them.

    3) The woman in #1 might be really enjoying herself because she knows she’s rarely the boss in that relationship. She’s grateful that he’ll publicly joke that she’s the boss for the moment. Outside the USA, men like us might also laugh…making the assumption that he is really the boss as would be the norm in the non-western country we live in. Guys here are upset with #1 because they know that, if he is American, the guy’s behavior might not really be a joke. That says more about US culture than it necessarily says about the guy (absent more info).

    Like


  98. Johnny West

    Less Negativity!

    Put out some positive game-related stuff now and then. Picking on those weaker than yourself can only be funny for so long before you seem bitter.

    Something I learned in a comedy troupe. Holds true though.
    [editor: come on man, i’ve been doing the BOTM for a year and now you complain? “picking on” these betas is amusing, but it’s also a public service intended to show men what not to do. in a way, i am bringing forth the light of the lord unto the world. betas gotta multiply too.]

    The number one thing I needed, and didn’t get, when I was growing up, was instruction on Why Not To Be Beta and How Not To Be Beta. I got the opposite, which was the usual feminist-inspired crap about the Natural Goodness of Women, along with a dose of old-school “put ladies on a pedestal”, and the utterly useless advice to “be yourself”. Roissy provides a valuable service to the young men of today. If he allows even one young man to avoid the dead end and anguish of the beta, then his blog justifies itself!

    Betas should be shamed. Shame is a useful tool for social change, and nothing more desperately needs changing than a male with a beta attitude.

    Like


  99. I still cannot get over the guy (number 3) begging that woman to give him a chance. It is pathetic!
    ____________________________

    About my blog (only mention of it for today)

    I am going to post a linkfest everyday. The topics will typically involve economics, scientific research (mostly pharma) and other interesting/ controversial stuff.

    Today’s linkfest (with my comments) is a homage to the hubris of our ‘elites’.

    http://dissention.wordpress.com/2009/12/14/linkfest-december-14-2009/

    Like


  100. A lot of people are bringing up the husband in the Facebook message. If that was me I would’ve responded with a simple “lol”.

    Like


  101. I just acted semi-beta and landed a date because of it – but that had possibly more to do with her not being American than my style.

    She’s a college student. We met the first time on Saturday and walked hand in hand in the snow for 2.5 hours. I called her today 4 times but she never picked up the phone. A short texting session in the afternoon didn’t seem to get much personality out of her – although she did note that she was taking a major exam this afternoon. Finally, this evening I texted in her language “it is OK if I didn’t appeal to you. Such is life. But maybe one of your friends did like me so please don’t feel you have to be rude to me when we can remain friends while I meet one of them”.

    It worked. She texted ASAP that she “would very much like” to meet to go ice skating tomorrow. I then called and she picked up the phone. We chuckled about my unusual text strategy and we confirmed plans. She just needed to adjust to my idea that we’ll meet several times this week and not take it slowly as in the once per week mode.

    An American woman her age may have been trained to regard any attempt by a man to question her behavior, especially a “If you aren’t interested that’s OK,” as being beta = creepy…when, in reality, it was taking charge. An American might have been trained to see my “impatience” to get a date for tomorrow as evidence of a possible stalker – just as they are trained to see a man sending flowers as such.

    US feminist culture actually tries to *punish* men for saying “your behavior is causing me concern” and tries to train women that it is beta and wrong for a man to challenge that. My text could easily have met the following feminist-American reply which is taught in Women’s Studies courses “You just made me uncomfortable. It is best not to see each other again. I wish you the best”.

    Even on this forum, I see advice given to deal with game playing that isn’t direct. Some say are supposed to go to a 90 degree angle or otherwise play games. But I tend to say “if you’re not interested, maybe you have a friend that would be”. That perks up a woman who was really interested in the first place and tells her to fish or cut bait.

    Like


  102. Social comments and analytics for this post…

    This post was mentioned on Twitter by JimBrownly: 3 Things Men Should Never Do – November 2009 Beta Of The Month http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/12/13/november-2009-beta-of-the-month/

    Like


  103. on December 14, 2009 at 2:09 pm Horatio Sanchez

    Alright, it’s gotta be #3. I figured #2 was just a publicly exposed but otherwise typical beta, clinging to a love who long ago lost its tingle for him. #1 was an above-and-beyond beta, doing something even most betas would not dare to do (ie, being furniture) and doing it publicly. However… #3. He’s a publicly exposed cuckold, humiliated before all. It enjoys the public aspect of the other two BOTM candidates, but what launches it into the stratosphere is the juicy details of his genetic meta-death are exposed for all to hear. #3, you are beta of the month!

    Like


  104. @bort

    “A lot of people are bringing up the husband in the Facebook message. If that was me I would’ve responded with a simple “lol”.”

    I would have tears in my eyes with laughter. I fear it would be uncontrollable.

    Like


  105. @Phenomenal One

    How is the husband beta ?
    so he responded to the guy’s post, so what

    if he responded with “stay the fuck away loser”, he wouldn’t be. His response was rather pathetic. Notice the female’s natural gameness in her response and how it’s different from the two losers.

    @ unlearning genius …

    Lots of guys think that duplicating the behaviors of high status men can make them high status .. for some this might work, but for many it is somewhat of a fantasy ..

    another case of over-inner-gaming and social rank worship. You’re not in high school anymore (I assume), what do you care what’s your “status”, outside of game and possibly career? There are 2 parts to status game:
    1) duplicating specific verbal and non-verbal (mini)routines that produce tingles. Doesn’t matter what status that makes you, it just works.
    2) by improving yourself you naturally improve your status. Doesn’t matter how far up it takes you, you’re still better off than where you started. Just do it for yourself.

    Like


  106. Number three.

    No contest.

    Like


  107. For all we know, the human furniture dude might have some sort of mental retardation and may think he’s being awesome. The fatty sitting on him could either be playing along or just being a bitch.

    I vote for Facebook stalker boy over the phone guy cuz the phone guy at least made an effort to call in, talk tough for a while, and at least he got some from the chick at some point. Facebook stalker sounds like he never hot any and was the creepy guy in high school. I bet he went over that letter a dozen times before typing a single word, and even then, his hands were probably trembling the entire time.

    Phone guy’s voice didn start cracking until the end.

    Like


  108. Each of these situations contains some good life lessons. Once you get over the cringe factor, they’re plain to see.

    About #2 (Andrew)… A guy should only express romantic emotions for his own piece of mind; not to “get” anything. Once he becomes wedded to a particular outcome (e.g., getting the girl back) his emotions can quickly start sounding sappy, dopey, and beta. Just ask yourself in advance: if I say/write this and it doesn’t generate the response I want, will I feel like shit the next morning? If so, don’t do say/write it in the first place! By contrast, this guy Andrew likely feels no catharsis at all for bearing his soul to the world on f-book. Instead, he’s probably still wondering what exact line it was in his note that he should have worded slightly differently in order to have generated a different outcome from the girl. But Andrew’s main crime? He’s just a rookie. Likely 21 years old and with scant experience.

    About #3 (Conner on the phone)… This guy appears more mature. At some level, he at least knows what the right thing to do is. And he indeed starts out talking “big” with the host on the phone. But once the girl gets on the line he makes a 180-degree pivot and falls into a completely predictable male script–The Passive Mr. Fixit. Henceforth, all his words are about how he can fix things. He says, “What do I have to do to make this work?” “Is there something I can do?” It’s as if she’s a project from shop class in high school and that there’s a given set of steps or instructions to complete it.

    Strangely, the girl in response is surprisingly helpful (albeit on the second call and after she’s composed herself). She says, “You flip-flop and you don’t stand your ground”. “I want a man to stand up to me… to tell me you’re [I’m] not treating you well.” That’s excellent LTR advice! She could not have been more spot-on. In other words, she’s begging for a guy to push-back against her, to disapprove, to show something solid. Underneath it all, she wants a man who’s able to forget the feminist drivel he’s been fed, tell her to shut-up, and ask her to do something for him.

    But #3 still can’t see the light. I agree with Steve Johnson’s comment. The line of the day is…

    I could stand up to her if that’s what she wants.

    Candidate #3 is so self-deceived in his own betatude that he, above the others, deserves the BOTM award. Wear it well, dude. You’ve earned it.

    Like


  109. As many others have said, number 3, no contest! That was cringe-inducing.

    Like


  110. Fact is no one can TAKE advantage of you. That’s something YOU give as gift.

    Beta #3 might never learn that lesson.

    People treat you the way you let them.

    Like


  111. Number 3 by landslide. Number 3 should also be the frontrunner for BOTY.

    Like


  112. Number Three here — what a pathetic way to carry on. And the fact that it displays that he just doesn’t get it confirms that he is the winnar for the month.

    Number One is just a submissive fetishist. There are a minority of beta guys who have this fetish, and an even smaller minority (as in a minuscule amount) of women who share it, so he’s probably lucky to have found another person to share his utter perversion of nature.

    Number Two is creepy and stupid more than anything else. Quite a bit less loserish than Three, though.

    Like


  113. To me, the key line for #3 was when the woman implied that it had been a long, long time since he’d gotten lucky in his own home, despite the expense he was going through. One presumes they’d been in the same bed the night before or?

    That is what would qualify him for BOTY 2009.

    I emailed with a woman who was doing this to get through school. She openly described a similar situation, telling me she would ditch him after graduation, which she did. I think things got nasty at that point. Her email address went dead after she said “I don’t want to date for several years now. I just want to be entirely on my own”.

    Like


  114. on December 14, 2009 at 3:17 pm gunslingergregi

    Ok just saw dude who noticed the time stamps on the emails. Interesting that she completely deferred to her husband about what to do. I like her more. Although their is something to be said for having a wife who will never be on facebook or be having anything coming into the house other than what you can physically see because she doesn’t use a computer.

    Like


  115. As poorly deployed as it is in this particular instance, I bet BOTM #2 is using the kind of language that won “Carla’s” attention in the first place. He seems pretty verbally fluent which I’m sure he used to excite her emotions in a Nicholas Sparks kind of way back whenever they were involved.

    As to the point regarding the timing, it is notable, but in my opinion ultimately less significant than the fact that the Mrs told her husband about the private message. Otherwise he would presumably have no way of knowing. Meaning, she tells her husband when guys – or at least this guy – makes inappropriate advances.

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  116. She didn’t just imply but directly said he hadn’t been getting anything in a very long while, and it would have to be while sharing a Queen, Double or King sized.

    She would have had to move out that night and in with Rick.

    Can anyone research the follow-up to the story?

    Like


  117. “The problem with betas is that they believe in the promise of hope instead of the disenchantment of reality.”

    Lieutenant Ronald C. Speirs, as quoted in Band of Brothers:
    “The only hope you have is to accept the fact that you’re already dead. The sooner you accept that, the sooner you’ll be able to function as a soldier is supposed to function: without mercy, without compassion, without remorse. All war depends upon it.”

    Like


  118. on December 14, 2009 at 3:28 pm gunslingergregi

    ”””””Jerry Ertans,
    I emailed with a woman who was doing this to get through school. She openly described a similar situation, telling me she would ditch him after graduation, which she did. I think things got nasty at that point. Her email address went dead after she said “I don’t want to date for several years now. I just want to be entirely on my own”.””””””

    Yea I saw this shit with my own eyes too. The guy was pretty messed up by it. I guess the reason why the guy who doesn’t give a shit holds the power. Don’t allow yourself to fall in “love” unless the chick has seriously proven something. If you want to put a chick through college go for it. Don’t expect any roi though unless there are some serious other indicators that she is what you want out of life and can deliver it. Just living everyday life and her having a place to stay and money to eat and her having sex with you doesn’t cut it. Pisses me off that the government has passed the new gi bill that you can give to your spouse. I mean shit the kids I can see but giving it to a spouse is setting a guy up for failure. Her ass can go to community college and get the pell grant and have money left over.

    Like


  119. on December 14, 2009 at 3:35 pm gunslingergregi

    ””””””’entrepoon
    “The problem with betas is that they believe in the promise of hope instead of the disenchantment of reality.”

    Lieutenant Ronald C. Speirs, as quoted in Band of Brothers:
    “The only hope you have is to accept the fact that you’re already dead. The sooner you accept that, the sooner you’ll be able to function as a soldier is supposed to function: without mercy, without compassion, without remorse. All war depends upon it.”
    ”””””””””””

    Yea not fearing death is what allows you to do some crazy shit in life. I am not afraid of death. I still have hope that there is good in woman. It is not just hope though it is made to be proven through her deeds.

    Of course that does lead to why am I not dead? lol the other pretty lie. We are supposed to be so worried about dieing that we are supposed to eat proper diet and worry about environments we place ourselves in. It is hard as fuck to die. The numbers are definetly in your favor that you will live no matter what the fuck you do.

    Like


  120. on December 14, 2009 at 3:39 pm gunslingergregi

    Ever watch those high speed chases with people being chased not professional drivers or used to driving that fast?

    Yea guess what they don’t even die at any astounding rate. At some point they wreck or whatever but they are still alive enough to handcuff. You don’t have to live like a pussy.

    Like


  121. Truly amazing that Reid Gray didn’t even get nominated.

    His wife cheated on him (apparently not the first time either). She and her lover planned and carried-out a scheme to extort money from him.

    Well, at least he dodged her ultimate plan of simply killing him (nothing say’s “I hate my beta husband” quite like asking your lover to blow his head off):

    ” Instead of extorting her husband, Quinn is heard on tape suggesting to her lover that they “blow his head off.” Husband Reid is still standing by her, but even he doesn’t believe her lawyer’s assertion that Quinn is innocent. “

    And, he’s heard the tape – of her loudly fucking her lover, plotting to scam him, and even suggesting his death.

    But, he’s still bankrolling her defense.

    Maybe he can still merit some consideration for beta of the year?

    Like


  122. Unrelated, but can we fucking ban Phthlates already?

    “Boys With High Phthalate Exposure in Womb Show Less Masculine Play”
    http://children.webmd.com/news/20091116/phthalates-affect-way-young-boys-play

    “Chemical exposure tied to sperm count”
    http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/2003/05.22/18-semen.html

    “Phthalates Exposure Linked to Enlarged Breasts in Boys”
    http://www.attorneyatlaw.com/2009/12/3412/

    “Phthalates and Metabolism: Exposure Correlates with Obesity and Diabetes in Men”
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1892143/

    Like


  123. Roissy:

    Replying to your last beta post, candidate # 3.

    Have you ever seen the movie the foot fist way?

    ***Spoilers

    I’ll save you the play by play, however it is about a martial artist instructor that thinks he is the man (alpha delusions) but is really a joke.

    He has an attractive wife (for his small town standards, and his jokester lifestyle) but she shames him by cheating on him and he is angry at her but still wants her back… ( a scene after she basically leaves him after he finds out she is cheating when he calls her and says i love you very much….says it all).

    Anyways, eventually she comes back after a more alpha person kicks her to the curb. He accepts her back in a beta manner although he states he wants to be respected in a humorous manner.

    In the end she cheats on him with his life-long idol…in his own house when hes out doing his job….he catches her and finally loses it and stands up for himself…but loses…and then sees her in the end when he royally puts her in her place.

    In this very crucial scene where he confronts her on the bleachers in the end this is gold.

    She tells him “look at yourself and look at what you are and then look at me, and asks are you really willing to throw this away?” -meaning look at yourself–>joke of a martial arts instructor, no prospects, not alpha, not great looks, no money.

    and look at me –> hot girl can get any man she wants, etc.

    But he finally looks at himself and her and realizes even though he can’t get anything better at the moment she isn’t worth it and he tells her off. Classic moment of manhood.

    THis is a great example of a beta transformation that takes bs from his hot wife, and finally becomes more alpha.

    Check it out.

    Like


  124. Anybody else in need of a unicorn chaser after that?

    There ya go… (NSFW)

    Like


  125. I listened to the #3 candidate’s radio clip. I am cringing in pain right now. Beta, Beta, Beta.

    Like


  126. on December 14, 2009 at 5:41 pm Phenomenal One

    with #3 some guys just start throwin money at woman as soon as they start talkin to em.
    some guys (and alot of woman) think that taken care of a woman is something a man is supposed to do.

    @ gunslingergregi

    the husband said “Coffee something ?” because the stalker had said “i’d love to keep in touch, grab some coffee and talk sometime.”

    Like


  127. From a psychological standpoint, what is the difference between a chick with an alpha and a beta with a female he’s attracted to?

    Like


  128. #1 is almost certainly a fetishist. There’s a good chance that the woman is a pro domme (doing it for money).

    And “wearing women’s skin as suit and tucking junk between legs” is an omega fetish.

    Like


  129. DJ: Alright Conor, give her a piece of your mind!
    Conor: What can I do to get you back??
    DJ: WHAT?!?!?!?

    CLASSIC!!!

    Facebook stalker needs to leave the thesaurus alone. The husband’s response, though long-winded, isn’t really deserving of the criticism it’s being given. It could be a lot better, certainly, but at least his heads in the right place.

    Thanks for your thoughts on the Audacity of Hope.

    Like


  130. The facebook guy sounds like he’s on Step 9 (making amends) in a 12 step rehab program for drug addiction. Since he mentions drugs I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one. However, if this was not part of his drug rehab, this is the most beta thing I’ve ever seen.

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  131. Don’t you think we need an intermediate choice between alpha and beta.

    In this contest, betas are “good” guys who love a woman and women despise them for it.

    If you never love a woman much (stay or leave, it is your choice, baby), never treat a woman really well (never let her know how much you make, never flash money in front of her), and never put yourself in a position where a woman can take advantage of you, aka., marriage, but enjoy all the free and not so free sex you can find, you really won’t be a beta. But, depending on your frequency and notch count, you might not be an alpha.

    So, what are you?

    BTW, I think all the sins of betas stem from:
    1. Lack of an accurate formal education about women.
    2. Inexperience of the carnal kind. By inexperience, I mean a lack of variety.

    Both of these shortcomings are fairly easy to fix. So, keep up the good work, Roissy. Who knows, you may wipe out American betahood in your lifetime! That would be like wiping out polio.

    Like


  132. From a psychological standpoint, what is the difference between a chick with an alpha and a beta with a female he’s attracted to?

    Very little.

    But still, a man should be a fucking man. Always.

    That’s what sucks about these stories. They don’t need to behave that way.

    Like


  133. I LOVE the radio jockey’s reaction when he realizes Connor is going to be a beta bitch.

    “WHAT??”

    lmao

    Like


  134. I don’t think 2 is very beta.

    Lets summarize 2:

    1. cheat on his girlfriend or leaves her for someone else

    2. waits until she is getting engaged

    3. then tries to hit on her using very beta game

    3) is the only thing that makes him beta. And the only downside to 3) is that he made a fool of himself and got rejected but he didn’t spend a dollar on her. He just wasted a little time and dignity. But other than that he lost little from the interaction.

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  135. @bytor:

    Where’s the Snow Dog, dude?

    Like


  136. In the Tobes of Hades, where else?

    Like


  137. Not relevant to the convo, but worthy of the blog: http://www.copyblogger.com/james-chartrand-underpants/

    While some men are spending their lives in BETA, women take their places in the trenches, one way or the other.

    Like


  138. I think the reason that the third stands out so far is because the other two simply could be explained as ‘no fault’/genetic. If you’re somehow fundamentally ‘wired’ to get off on submission and public degradation, then being a chair in public might really just be your thing. Yeah, we might not get it, but it takes all kinds.

    Same thing goes for the stalker. I wouldn’t say he’s so much beta/omega as he is, well, ‘broken’. It’s hard for me to call him a beta or an omega, because his behavior seems to be more in the full-on ‘dysfunctional human being’ category than not. He is, in my mind, one to be pitied and helped, probably with assistance from mind altering drugs.

    Where the third truly shines is in his appearance of a perfectly normal guy who has ended up on the shit end of the stick. There’s no real excuses to be had here; he’s got all his faculties, and he’s exhibiting all the classic beta/omega behaviors. He’s not doing it because he truly gets off on it; he’s not doing it because his brain is architecturally missing a few pieces; he’s doing it because he is the paragon of omega/beta.

    That is why he seems so much more worthy to me.

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  139. second read through — third candidate, hands down. I cringed.

    Do all disc jockeys have the same jackass voice? because the host sounds pretty similar to the guy we have up here.

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  140. Did you hear #3 on how his voice intonations tailed off in question format like a girl? The he spoke like a valley girl. He’s a slave.

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  141. All three of these men are heroes, subdued by the cold treachery of femalekind.

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  142. Number 3’s begging absolutely chilled me to the bone.

    Play that tape anytime you want to remind yourself of the absolute EVIL that is womans nature.

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  143. If you never love a woman much (stay or leave, it is your choice, baby), never treat a woman really well (never let her know how much you make, never flash money in front of her), and never put yourself in a position where a woman can take advantage of you, aka., marriage, but enjoy all the free and not so free sex you can find, you really won’t be a beta. But, depending on your frequency and notch count, you might not be an alpha.

    Good point, Joel. That’s why I’m introducing the concept of the game-theory strategies as the way to understand being alpha. We get to choose the strategy of provider, or of rake.

    Just as women get to choose the strategy of housewife or whore.

    Not all rakes can be called Alpha, I’ll agree. But a rake who is good at what he does is a man’s man.

    Like


  144. I believe 1 is a role-playing fetishist – something other than ‘beta’ entirely. Like a guy who wears women’s underwear or something.

    It seems to me 2 is trying to play an angle to get to ‘Carla’. Though the instant move seems doomed to fail, he might be looking to set up moves down the line.

    3 gets my vote. Wow. Pathetic. He has the stage set perfectly. ‘Audrey’ fell right into the trap. She’s caught and knows it, ashamed and dreading the coming firestorm. 3 seems worked up and ready to roar with righteous anger. Then, in his moment of redemption, he begs her. Unbelievable. The radio host’s shocked disgust spoke for all men.

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  145. Also I’d like to repeat that I think people are hard wired with predispositions towards being either the provider or rake. Not hardwired to be either, but with predispositions. A higher libido will make you more of a rake. There are genes associated with with valuing fitting in to the group, and those who have those will be more likely to own the social pressure to marry as a personal value. There are genes associated with risk taking behaviour. The guy with high risk, low social conformity, and high libido is predisposed to be of a the class of humans who chose the rake strategy.

    The conformists are likely to group together to be imams and priests and police and soldiers and social enforcers of group-think. They value marriage and the family values. They scare me and I avoid them.

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  146. Talk to Whiskey about his views of the military and an individuals responsibility to serve in it. He is predisposed to be a conformist and has family values. He has internalized the morals and the strategy of the provider. So much so that he sees it as the only upstanding choice any moral man would choose.

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  147. I agree with some things on this blog but not everything. I agree that the third candidate is a pussy, but not that hope is a bad thing in general. We bomb Afghanistan but still hope that peace will prevail and our troops come home.

    I also disagree that the first picture is hard evidence that the man is bending to the girl’s will and therefore beta. She could be his girl and they just think it’s funny to get a reaction from people on the train (and this blog, mission accomplished).

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  148. Nashville

    He seems pretty verbally fluent

    I think you meant fluid. Like diarrhea.

    Like


  149. Number 2 seems more like an Om3ga as he’s not in the company of woman. At least #1 and #3 have access to women in a crappy sort of a sense yet I still voted for #3. It’s a shame though that the #1 was a seat – if he did the same except that he was a foot rest then he could be called a “pouf/poof” (heh heh).

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  150. Cliff youre joking. he dont need a perfectly straight nose. Scars are alpha, surviving real violence means that you prevailed. That is, it used to, and our biology may still make us see it that way.

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  151. The verbal combination of flatulent and fluid must be what you mean by verbally fluent.

    That some view his writing skills as above average shows why being average is not attractive to women. Average sucks. You have to stand out.

    That guys writing is as bad as steamy sculpted shit. Shit that is too loose to hold a crisp shape.

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  152. Xsplat — Men are as adaptable as women. Look at the Black community or White British Chavs — going to thug route to compete with women. Or heck “Jersey Shore.”

    Nor are the military always like in the US — Roman Centurions, Crusaders, Conquistadors were not “beta providers” but indeed sought riches through conquest etc.

    People do what they are rewarded for, not “morality.” I do think that a successful society depends on rewarding beta providers, I would not call Black America or British Chavs “successful.”

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  153. Whiskey, there is a researcher who writes about conformism, that you might be interested in. Robert Altmeyer. Check out http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

    Here are a few quotes from my blog, with other relevant links:

    Not everyone has the innate sense of respect for authority and the sanctity of purity. Conservatives tend to be born with
    these. There are genetic reasons for the differences. I can’t find the best articles for this research, but here is one http://edge.org/3rd_culture/haidt07/haidt07_index.html

    A google on “genetic basis for morality” comes up with articles that mention that there could be no ultimate moral stance, from an evolutionary or game playing theory point of view. It’s a game of rock-paper-scissors. If your society has police, but no artists, it will get beat by the society who has rocks and papers and scissors to fight you with.

    Another link for the genetic basis of timidity is http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn8337

    ———–
    Have you ever had a discussion with someone, have all your points agreed to, and yet still meet with intractable resistance to the conclusion?

    I’m sure you have. It seems that at least 50% of us have an inability to alter our viewpoints. That’s right – it isn’t that we aren’t so good at it, we have an outright inability.

    Fifty percent of college student think that vision works by some sort of vision-rays coming out of the eye, like superman sees. Regardless of having just read an article explaining how vision is about light coming into the eye, their misconception will persist.

    Even the most obvious and easily corrected misconceptions are sometimes extremely resistant to change. Yes, people are that stubborn.

    And that is why I know that this recent large scale twin study that shows that a tendency to trust and to be trustworthy is heriditable , combined with studies that show gene pools can meaningfully be classed into races, will be information that most people will not be able to absorb into their world view. Once a candy ass egalitarian, always a candy ass egalitarian.

    We’ve all heard how societies tend to structure themselves to value truth more, or less, in order to get their needs met. In a group of untrustworthy individuals, its not in your best interest to be trustworthy, and vice versa. It is well known that trust in Asia works differently than trust in the west. As a blatant example, noobie male tourists routinely get scammed by “good” Thai girls, and send them a monthly allowance, not knowing that she is getting four other allowances and is dating 5 boys and meeting men online to arrange travel dates.

    So the Swiss guy may be both culturally and biologically wired up to trust. It just doesn’t occur to him that “his” girl could be playing him.

    It took me years of living in Asia to have this well worn phrase directed at me; “Foreigner he know too much”.

    —————-

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  154. I have a comment awaiting moderation, Whiskey, because it has many links in it. Google Robert Altmeyer and The Authoritarians for starters.

    Like


  155. Whiskey, I also think that society, as we’ve known it lately and for the history of bipedal primates, depends on rewarding the beta provider.

    One theory is the reason that we are bipedal is that the primates who could carry food while walking could offer it to the females, for sex.

    But, unlike you, I also think that society as we have always known it also depends on those that take a different strategy towards mating.

    I see both the cad and the provider strategy as essential to any society that has ever been known – inescapable even. If you were to weed out the cads, there would be drastic and unforseeable social changes. I think we’d look a lot more like India, the land of arranged marriages and companionate relationships, matriarchal, and highly conformist. Class conscious to the extreme. We’d become incredibly fem-centric.

    I think you underestimate the value of the male-centric morality – and neglect to even notice that different mating strategies come hand in hand with different moralities.

    Some people shame sluts, or cads. They FEEL it is a moral issue. From the point of view of the selfish gene, it is merely a mating strategy. Conformist versus selfish. Fem centric versus male centric.

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  156. There is even a genetic pre-disposition to consider sluts as unclean and impure.

    Fancy that! I find that amazing. People are hard wired to have these emotions, and these emotions naturally translate into morals and belief systems.

    Some people viscerally think that to be a whore is shameful. Actual shameful – not just some strategy that should be kept in line through social shaming.

    And others don’t feel this way. FEEL – not think.

    We are born pre-disposed to certain feelings and mating strategies.

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  157. It’s me. Look, fellas, I can explain.

    I know it doesn’t look good right now, and that as a result of my monumentally faggy, groveling beta behavior on the radio, I’m already way ahead in the voting for “BOTM.” But, there must be something I can do to make this work. How can I make you all think I’m alpha? I can stand up to you if that’s what you all want.

    I’ll do anything to get back your respect. I can write you some rambling, melodramatic prose with too many adjectives professing my love. I’ll even get on all fours so you can take turns sitting comfortably on my back for your entire subway ride.

    Like


  158. Also, in terms of dark-triad traits, I wonder if narcissistic and anti-social are merely negative spins on confidence and individualistic. It’s a fem-centric view that sees sleeping around as anti-social.

    Fems are such communists. The individual is a-social from their extreme view. You can be a social cad – most cads are highly sociable.

    Like


  159. A few words in favor of #3 *not* winning BOTY:

    1) He still has his entire house (if the mortgage is not underwater) and future income stream. She had just denied all claim to it – and her performance would probably stand up in court that she doesn’t deserve a penny more.

    2) He obviously did something right to get a hottie to move in with him and share a bed. Many alpha males have had great apartments in some US cities where no woman ever even visited (feminist paranoia in Boston for example).

    3) Being alpha is something men LEARN and this might shock him into learning. When I was 22, I worked in a hotel where gorgeous guests would hand back their second key to me – and I understood what they meant but did not ACT on it because I was a total WIMP.

    So he is in a position to win where many of the readers here are screwed financially, etc, with no hope of recovery despite the fact that being alpha is worth $2Million.

    Like


  160. And yet even in India, Whiskey, who rises to the top? It’s the uber-cads – the generals.

    Wherever you have a group of conformists, you give rise to the possibilities of Hitlers or more likely Kublai Khans (Hitler was a queen).

    You need a balance – because too many of either leads to extremes. You do point out what happens when society leans to far to the extreme of thuggish sexual strategies. Don’t forget the other extreme. We’ll all become pencil dicked low T IT workers named Apu, hoping our mom can arrange someone other than that fat chick she keeps mentioning.

    Like


  161. I’ve been in the same boat as #2 just a couple of years ago. Wrote a long diatribe to a girl, put her on a pedestal. Granted, I was a junior in high school and she was a sophomore who I was trying to date, but the results were the same. She wrote a short, cold response and within 15 minutes of my writing it got herself a boyfriend and a jr. prom date. Made it facebook official and had a profile picture up of them together within the hour.

    I wish I had known of this site in order to understand what was what back then. In the couple of years since then I’ve made so many beta mistakes that I know in hindsight could have been avoided if I’d just known what I know now. On top of that, I might have(at the very least) kissed a girl by now. Here I am, 18 and a college freshman-no sex, no nothing. All because when I was younger I listened to BS about how women want “respect” and to meet a “nice guy”.

    #3 wins my vote, and I’ve been there to. It happened this year actually, freshman fall. Its a long story I might tell later, but it ended with her coldly saying by phone that ‘I don’t want you in my life anymore”.
    Oh man, if only I’d knew what I know now. I was so indescribably beta-made EVERY single, solitary mistake in the book. I could have been unquestioned beta of the month, seriously.

    If anything though, those experiences(plus #3’s embarassing blunder) really let me into the nature of women. When I was younger, I idealized them. I scoffed and belittled other guys who treated the girls I knew like shit. I thought women were all kind, loving, gentle. I thought they deserved nothing but the most gentlemanly, chivalrous treatment I or any other man could offer. I thought that this was also what they wanted.

    I only now realize how wrong I was.

    Like


  162. Oh, and Roissy is also right about hope. I think its obvious, at least when it comes to love.

    #3 went to the beta extreme because he “hoped” that golddigger would come back. He knew what she was up to…but “hoped” for her to change.
    #2 “hoped” a married woman would change her mind.
    I made both of those mistakes as well, as have countless others. All we have to show for it is pain.
    “Hope” is useless in relationships. Know what you want, and go get it. Don’t grovel and beg for the sake of “hope”. You’re better off walking away at that point.

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  163. “Here I am, 18 and a college freshman-no sex, no nothing. All because when I was younger I listened to BS about how women want “respect” and to meet a “nice guy”.”

    Umm, you have nothing to feel bad about. You have 3.5 years in college left.

    Like


  164. Better yet: #2 is an Om3ga and can’t qualify for the BOTM award. For #2 to referred as a Beta would be a step up for him.

    Like


  165. xsplat
    “The verbal combination of flatulent and fluid must be what you mean by verbally fluent.”

    Still talking about yourself, xsplat? Jesus goddamned Christ, you’ve gone full-on Wendy Schwartz. FemX’s advice about going back to those other meds would seem to apply.

    Like


  166. on December 15, 2009 at 8:16 am finsalscollons

    “Here I am, 18 and a college freshman-no sex, no nothing. All because when I was younger I listened to BS about how women want “respect” and to meet a “nice guy”.”

    We all have. I am 39 and I wish information about game was available twenty years ago. So many decades wasted doing all this BS about being a nice guy and respecting women.

    At least, you are young and you have all your youth to take advantage of this information. Don’t look back and score some pussy.

    Like


  167. @JB:

    Maybe I do, but I am at a pretty huge disadvantage. I have zero experience-no sex, no kissing, no bases at all. I’m not even up to bat-I’m the guy up in the stands handing out peanuts. There’s some problem with that because at my stage EVERYONE has at least gone to first base. Being a football player just makes that worse. D-1 athletes(ESPECIALLY black ones) are just expected to have experience. Its what society perceives and to some extent demands.

    That peer pressure can create anxiousness. You get anxious to just get a girl and get it over with. It feeds the beta inside you in some ways because you get desperate and start doing desperate(beta) things just to escape. Girls(especially the young ones) seem to be very good at sniffing out inexperience and desperation, and then they want nothing to do with you.

    That’s the trick to escaping one’s status as a beta. If you can’t suppress that anxiousness for female company and prevent the desperation/inexperience from showing at least a little, you can’t get out of the hole because girls will continue to avoid you.
    I’m here to try(at least) to learn how to avoid this problem and I have learned quite a bit already, but its still a real difficult task. This I think is how you end up with 20-something year old virgins. They went through college, but they couldn’t suppress their inexperience/desperation enough to overcome.

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  168. @Eric “‘Scars are alpha, surviving real violence means that you prevailed. That is, it used to, and our biology may still make us see it that way”

    I might agree with you, I don’t know if Silvio would. Despite his massive wealth and power he still has a reputation for being pretty vain and aspiring to a pretty boy look.

    It could be that In Italy scars are more a marker of low class / criminal backgrounds and not markers of male vitality. At any rate I predict he’ll get some work done to hide the break.

    Like


  169. Yes, I wish I’d have had real advice as a freshman in college 30 years ago. I am only getting good at dating college coeds now (have a second date tonight with one). Here is what I would say if I could go “Back to the Future” style into the late 1970s:

    1) Swim every second day. There was an Olympic pool within 300 yards of my dorm and I never thought to use it until I went back to the campus for the 20 year reunion. I studied too hard. This advice will apply for the rest of your life if you really want to do well. Looks matter more than you think but one or two good swims is enough to greatly transform looks for the better.

    2) Learn to dress to look good remembering that you need to have swum or lifted weights enough first. Keep clothes ironed. Do NOT ignore this advice. Buy a new wardrobe over Christmas. This is non-negotiable.

    3) NEVER goof around in public and do things like leap over bike racks or those barriers in front of buildings. Sure, your young body can do this, but the young women will not be impressed at all. I will continue…

    Like


  170. 4) You have to be sufficiently read to get a smart young woman. At least you need to see the films and read the Twilight books or a good synopsis of same – while devouring stuff like Jane Austen and the Bronte Sisters. If you ever expect to date a Russian woman, read Master and Margarita and some Tolstoy and Dostoevsky. Simply put, read what they are probably reading. Do your homework this way. You are at a disadvantage because older men will have had more time to acquire knowledge like this…just like at the end of the film “Groundhog Day”. It isn’t fair because the women have often read only a tiny fraction of what the older man read but she is impressed by his having read that tiny fraction. The younger man’s only chance is to have spent his teens heavily reading literature and keeping up with the times while also swimming and lifting (what my son will be advised to do).

    5) Seek out the foreign exchange students. They are not inferior because they are easier to get along with. They are superior because they are.

    6) If you can risk a low grade, take a women’s studies course so, out of class, you can show what you know the enemy has taught someone. I didn’t take any of these courses in college so I wasn’t aware of enemy action. You cannot win a war without intelligence.

    Like


  171. Jerry Ertans…you are f-ing insane, but I love it.

    Regarding your second to last post: What the hell are you talking about regarding women not going back to your guy’s apartment? Even as middling greater-beta in grad school in Boston I had a decent amount back to my place. I think you are the paranoid one on that. Also, at the hotel…they were seriously just handing back the key. Thats all they were doing.

    Regarding your last post…you are right about looks in life, however, obviously, looks have to be adjusted to the situation. For guys under 30, its not ironed suits that are going to win over girls UNLESS they are in a very specific situation requiring a suit. Ive heard many girls bitch about guys who come to dates straight from work in a suit. A button down with the top few buttons undone, a nice pair of jeans and some solid loafers, maybe a blazer or nice over coat, will do the trick in DC or Boston. In LA it probably takes something even different.

    And as far as goofing around in public goes…most guys generally do this for enjoyment among other guys. You’re right, its not going to get girls, but a certain amount of enjoying life is not a bad thing unless you’re a bitter 50 year old.

    Like


  172. Jerry Ertans: “The younger man’s only chance is to have spent his teens heavily reading literature and keeping up with the times while also swimming and lifting (what my son will be advised to do).”

    Jesus f-ing christ.

    All there is to be said about that.

    Like


  173. Suits are a no-go for most dates at any age with women 18-22. Jeans or slacks have to be ironed, which takes 2 minutes if you’ve spent the $25 to buy an iron in the first place. Women notice shoes – they can’t be dirty, frayed or smell bad (amazing how many beta college boys fail on this).

    Boston: Very paranoid city since the Boston Strangler in the 60s just as Seattle has a “memory” of Ted Bundy. No, it is not my imagination. Number closing is better almost everywhere else on Earth.

    Also: Feminist cities are bad for *older* men – It may be very easy for younger men to date US-born coeds in Boston – but the fundamental drive of most older feminists is to stop men their own age from being able to date younger women. That is why Women’s Studies courses try to drill fear of serial killers, etc, into freshman coed heads.

    Even still, I’d probably do better as a professor at Boston College than your average male student, despite the outrageous rules against that (rules were established by feminists to stop patriarchal privilege taking).

    Regarding male teens needing to read and read some more: It is called “Social Capital”. Everything you know that they might know is like money in the bank.

    You can be as alpha as they come, but if I come along and I’ve read the 5 books of Twilight + Doktor Zhivago (her favorite), she’s mine.

    Like


  174. Before 1986, women really did give their hotel keys to men they wanted to sleep with. Believe me, I was so beta that I would have tried hard to believe that they were only giving an extra key back, but the flirting and winking in those days were heavy. There was no mistaking what women on holiday wanted in the early 80s. Not only did I completely fail to act on what was going on, whenever a female stranger flirted with me, I would chalk that up to a good ego feed but not want to “ruin the good mood” by actually trying to get a date out of it.

    Believe me, a lot of guys in their early 20s do just that. It is insane. Rule #7 should be to NEVER chalk up a flirt to a good ego boost. Always turn that into a number close.

    The early 80s were the days of the advanced sexual revolution before the Christian-Feminist Alliance used their dual control of the MSM to put a double whammy end to it via AIDS hype. The motivation was, as today, older Republican and Democrat women did not want men their own age to date younger women, especially if they were in a position like boss or professor.

    I was too naive and beta to take advantage of the revolution before 1986 when it was shut down by the media worldwide.

    Like


  175. “People do what they are rewarded for, not “morality.” I do think that a successful society depends on rewarding beta providers, I would not call Black America or British Chavs “successful.””
    __

    Damn straight.

    […]

    “But even though they are doing their best to be supernigga, they still do things in a feminine way because feminine influences are most of what they know. Most of their role models and involved family members are women, and the few men in their lives were likely raised by only women too. And it shows in how they handle conflict: grudges are held forever, they never know how to let anything slide, they think primarily with emotion and are prone to outbursts, drama and confrontation and most importantly, they don’t know how to choose their battles. True male behavior isn’t being a drama queen, being highly prone to emotional outbursts and holding onto grudges; true male behavior is picking your battles, knowing when to fight and when to let things slide, analyzing things calmly and logically and having discipline over your moods and emotions and exercising emotional restraint. These are things that a true alpha male influence teaches you, and such influences have almost disappeared completely from the hood.”

    […]

    http://therawness.com/myth-of-the-ghetto-alpha-male/

    Again, it is no wonder America is becoming a ‘turd-world’ shithole.

    Like


  176. on December 15, 2009 at 10:41 am no game no dame

    Konkvistador –
    “Does anyone else ever get depressed reading such anti-game dealings with women?”

    Yes, frequently, upon recognizing how their mirror one’s own past performance.

    Like


  177. “Being a football player just makes that worse. D-1 athletes(ESPECIALLY black ones) are just expected to have experience. Its what society perceives and to some extent demands.”

    Fuck society and what it demands.

    You have to learn to focus on your own path.

    Being a football player = status.

    Status = IOIs.

    IOIs means opportunities.

    If you’re under constant pressure to get laid, you will act weird and desperate.

    That is the issue at hand.

    Like


  178. @JLAW45

    ” really let me into the nature of women. When I was younger, I idealized them. I scoffed and belittled other guys who treated the girls I knew like shit. I thought women were all kind, loving, gentle. I thought they deserved nothing but the most gentlemanly, chivalrous treatment I or any other man could offer. I thought that this was also what they wanted.”

    yep. I had no sisters or even first cousins so I knew nothing about women. I should have known the few that liked me were the ones I teased. In high school I thought the exact same thing. What a complete moron I was..

    Like


  179. The radio call sounded fake to me. I did a small google search and found this comment about the show. Makes sense to me.

    Comment from another website:
    War of the Roses is fake in all markets. I have a background in radio and FCC laws really did away with phone pranks as the law is that the caller must be notified as soon as they pick up the phone that they are talking to a radio station and that the call is being taped for broadcast. Big fines if they don’t.

    Here is a blurb from the FCC laws: The FCC today issued two fines to stations who violated the FCC’s rule against airing phone calls for which permission had not been received before the call was either taped for broadcast or aired live. We’ve written about other fines for the violation of this rule, Section 73.1206, many times (see here, here, and here). What was interesting about the new cases is that they made clear that a station needs to get permission to record or broadcast the phone call even before the person at the other end of the line says “hello.”

    Like


  180. The #1 candidate could just be a kid being silly with his group of college friends on the subway. Like a class clown.

    #2 is a socially inept Omega.

    #3 is the Beta.

    Like


  181. gunslingergregi,

    Au contraire. I was going for an analogue thing. Like, the way to be an effective soldier is to face and accept (in a deeply personal way –ah, I love our Supreme Court, don’t you?), that the odds are that you will die; and that there are awfully good odds that you will die in a way where almost nothing you could have done would have prevented it –that it’s random, e.g. artillery fire; machine gun fire, straffing. That, in that war, it wasn’t personal; it was mechanical.

    I’m seeing a similar thing with game vis a vis dealing with women/girls; that there are certain strategic things, certain tactical things that can be done to improve odds, sometimes greatly change the outcome, but, ultimately too, … see that’s where I lose the thread. To be an effective soldier you have to just accept that you’ve lost already; and go about your business on the assumption that the manly thing to do is to die respectfully, doing your duty. What’s the Game analogue? Accept that women can be gamed? That there are all those pretty lies out there? What would be that which needs be accepted?

    Like


  182. on December 15, 2009 at 12:12 pm Raymo in LeDroit

    The first guy is just dumb, he probably thought he was being chivalrous. It would have been less embarrassing if he had

    The second guy is insane regardless if he is a beta, alpha, delta…., all men and women should fear such a nut.

    The third is the most beta, willing to do or accept anything to keep her around. And anyone willing to have radio DJ, jumbo-tron operator or whatever talk to partners is repulsive.

    Like


  183. aoefe

    The radio call sounded fake to me. I did a small google search and found this comment about the show. Makes sense to me.

    Comment from another website:
    War of the Roses is fake in all markets.

    We’ve been through this before. roissy refuses to acknowledge the obvious about these fake bits. Same with the halftime of the game marriage proposal rejection bits.

    They seem to touch upon some deep seated nightmare he has about being rejected or cuckolded. So he wants to believe them to reinforce his worst fears about women.

    Here’s a beta story from a few years back.

    Like


  184. I nominate the following for Beta of the Decade:

    “If 1,170,000 People Join, My Girlfriend Will Marry Me!”

    http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=info&gid=191904666638

    Absolutely disgusting

    Like


  185. on December 15, 2009 at 1:10 pm Cannon's Canon

    JLAW45,

    Your forthrightness is commendable. If you have distended yourself from traditional morality, I would suggest setting your sights on girls that are below your usual attractiveness threshold, at least for the time being. The higher your value is with respect to your targets, the happier they are to give you favors for nothing in return.

    I’m not sure how far into Game readings you’ve gotten, but your mind is in the right place. Consider setting goals for approaches – find a reason to talk to, say, ten girls a week or one per day. There are faster ways to get laid in college, but this should build your foundation up to where you are comfortable interacting and not feeling beta insecurity.

    Like


  186. Entrepoon,

    As a former war zone medic, I can tell you the analogy: accept that women have certain behavior patterns that you will have to deal with to gain sex, but do not get emotionally attached to them as if they were real human beings. Again, philosophically, it is often more bearable to go without sex and interact with a few women who can behave as moral beings, outside the sexual sphere, in another area of human endeavor, whether art, science, politics, etc.

    The most interesting transformation of my psyche was the transition to “Kill ’em all, let God sort ’em out” which is why only very special people can do good counterterrorism, and only for so long. The analogous transformation–beyond “Biomechanics is God”, that all women can be Gamed, and that everything is Game, is Eivind “Arpagus” Berge’s “Rape is Equality.” Of course, he is not a PUA and says so quite explicitly on his blog.

    Like


  187. I wouldn’t classify the facebook guy as beta.

    He more than less seems as though he’s going through one of his 12 steps as he said he was addicted to drugs in the past. He obviously picked the wrong medium to do such a thing but I would like to think his letter of apology was filled with more sincerity than the manipulation with which he used to act. I guess I just have beta “hope” for people but to me I just think he’s executing step 9.

    Like


  188. I must admit that my attention was most caught by the lamebook letter-writer. Clio has often been the recipient of such screeds. She wishes men would learn not to do this and welcomes all attempts to teach them not to.

    However, there are other methods, like getting huffy, that can backfire too, though they won’t leave their perps feeling quite so unmanned. Here is an email Clio received from a former e-flirtation, who recently wrote to ask her to write him (an alpha move?) and responded thus when she told him she “was engaged”:

    allow me to offer you my heartfelt congratulations and my best wishes for your future married life
    do tell me how you met the lucky fellow and how the story developed
    who he is and how and where you two intend to make a life together
    […]
    no, i am not in a relationship (as the saying goes) and had i been, it could hardly have been a bar to our correspondence anyway: i was always more genuinely interested in you as a person than as a sex/relationship object, even if you didnt know it (this seems to be the case with all my internet contacts: they all appear actively shopping, if you will, while i was out there to learn something (and, of course, never did)
    […]
    i wrote to you on the spur of the moment a few hours ago because i was deep in thought and suddenly it occurred to me to ask your opinion on something, but now i am no longer sure that i should, forgive me
    i now live in X, in a beautiful […] city, with wonderful food and superb wine, good weather, and friendly but somewhat cool people, stand-offish, some would say, which is a good thing because they leave me alone; i am not obliged to make friends or conversation if i dont feel like it
    though of course i also cant if i do, but this isnt often, as you well imagine not many people can tell me something i do not already know 🙂
    do accept my warmest regards

    Was this an alpha email, fellows, or the height of passive-aggressive betahood? What I can tell you about my own reaction is that I didn’t write back, or at least not until he’d written again.

    Clio

    [editor: two words: sour grapes. one more word: beta.]

    Like


  189. Xsplat,

    The verbal combination of flatulent and fluid must be what you mean by verbally fluent.

    That some view his writing skills as above average shows why being average is not attractive to women. Average sucks. You have to stand out.

    That guys writing is as bad as steamy sculpted shit. Shit that is too loose to hold a crisp shape.

    Thanks! You’ve repeated exactly what I observed, just managing to use more words and introduce a fecal matter metaphor. You see, when I said As poorly deployed as it is in this particular instance I was pointing out that while his message was execrable (another fecal focused phrasing for you), it was in part execrable because of how richly it painted his pitiable condition. If you flipped such language around to positive connotations and feelings, you could easily run Roissy’s Spain/Patagonia pattern or any of a hundred NLP routines.

    Get it now? The dude knows how to use words to provoke feelings. I wouldn’t be surprised if his day job was some sort of emo songwriter. But on the whole, it’s the feelings he’s provoked that have caused us to scorn him, not the simple fact that he overuses adjectives (although that is a bit of a sign too).

    Like


  190. The disillusionment with Obama continues.. this time from the moderates.

    http://dissention.wordpress.com/2009/12/15/linkfest-december-15-2009/ (The disillusionment with Obama continues.)

    Like


  191. Clio – thank you so much for posting your private correspondence. And you always get such correspondence from men who are smitten by your charms? It must be such a burden to be the object of attraction to so many men.

    Concerning the letter you received – the sentiment seems pretty genuine. I did not detect any beta groveling or pleading to once again have your attention. And his letter must have struck a nerve enough for you to save it and have it ready for such a posting. However, I am sure you never really think about this guy and it just a happy coincidence that you had such correspondence ready to share with us. After all, you are quite in love with your fiancé and can think of no other man.

    According to the God of biomechanics, approximately four years from now you will discover that your new husband will start to lack paying the proper attention to you. At that time I am sure you will be much more willing to correspond with this gentleman. Maybe you will even find this guy to be willing to lend a sympathetic ear? Over lunch perhaps?

    Oh wait – I am sure you are not like that. And you and your new hubby will live forever is blissful happiness. 🙂

    [editor: there’s a backstory here, isn’t there?]

    Like


  192. #3 inspires this question:

    Fictional scene, but in light of 3, how do you rate Will Shuester’s reaction to discovering Terri’s fake pregnancy in “Mattress” Episode 12 of Glee?

    Like


  193. Anybody else notice Google’s homepage today (Tues 12/15)?

    The Google logo includes the flag of the Esperanto language, and clicking on the logo leads you to links of “L.L. Zamenhof” the Jew internationalist creator of the Esperanto language.
    [editor: i really want a droid phone, but i can’t in good conscience support an anti-american lefty loon like brin. esperanto is poopytalk.]

    Like


  194. aoefe

    The radio segment in #3 isn’t fake. While a healthy skepticism is a good thing, you’re letting it get the better of you here, and it turn, this makes you seem unreceptive to the palpable reality of a pathetic man and his exquisitely usurious whore of a girlfriend. This is not a contrived reflection of reality but a painfully exposed slice of it.

    As for the quoted comment from another blog, it was not about this particular show or station and just because similar segments could be faked by some radio stations doesn’t mean this “War of the Roses” is fake. Nor is $4000-$6000 a “big fine” for a radio station in a major market running afoul of broadcast law. The FCC’s enforcement apparatus isn’t equipped to deal with most petty violations of its over-regulations, and on top of that, such enforcement is only set into motion after sufficient complaint. Most victims of “roses” just want to forget it happened, not literally make a federal case of it.

    Radio DJs have great incentive to push the envelope of broadcast legality and routinely violate it simply because they’ll get away with most infractions.

    Additionally, the work required to script, rehearse and record a staged roses, even with superb improvisationalist actors isn’t worth the effort when they can easily generate actual drama through simple deception (and rely on their large audience for worthwhile leads), obtaining consent afterward. Also, archival of the content on the internet (rather than rebroadcast over licensed airwaves) isn’t subject to FCC regulation.

    Like


  195. I am picturing #2 blubbering and licking the slick of mucous on his upper lip from the cesspool trenches of his red swollen schnoz . Several pages are stuck together in his thesaurus from dried snot and the weak dribble from self gratification in despair.

    Like


  196. #3 FTW

    #1 Looked like the clear winner out of the gate. It takes a real half-man to agree to do that, but there always could be an explanation along the lines that he’s a clown or its a bet.

    #2 is crazy and delusional. He’s another hopeless sap, but he’s trying. His boldness is misguided, unrealistic and weak, but its a form of boldness nonetheless.

    #3 is just a pathetic noodle. Even on the air, he couldn’t sack it up and do what was necessary. He is a pussy to his core…. beyond hope for redemption. Even the DJ, who did not strike me as a bully, could not help voicing his contempt,…. Imagine how females the world over must feel.

    PS. Carla’s response was an icicle through the heart. Devastating…. The husband’s response was unnecessary and not nearly as hurtful, but it wasn’t exactly beta. He did allude to kicking the guy’s ass at a cafe, and sometimes that needs to be done depending on what kind of girlfriend you have.

    Like


  197. “Clio has often been the recipient of such screeds.”

    Did that cause her to being referring to herself in the third person?

    Like


  198. being=begin

    Like


  199. Blue: Sergey Brin is a pacifist, multiculti, sociobiologically challenged P.C. fascist trying to birth an “innovative culture” which has no place for the Mal Reynolds of this world.

    Fuck him and the unicorn he rode in on. I hope he fails.

    Like


  200. Eurosabra,

    “Kill them all….” I understand that didn’t quite work too good for the Inquisition –Protestants still bring it up 800 years later. Not aware of it being an effective general war policy either –and either strategically or tactically.

    On the other hand, with regard to the analogue, what I’m trying to get at definitely ven-diagram overlaps with your ‘they’re not like us’ view. Roissy’s III, IV, XV and XVI address it. One moment while I look at the maxims that another commenter was good enough to annotate….

    Like


  201. “Roissy Maxim #18: The two fundamental propositions upon which all game theory rests are male choosiness and female abundance. All alpha males have these two mindsets in common.
    “Corollary to the above: Male choosiness and female abundance do not necessarily have to be true for the strategy of behaving as if they are true to be effective at seducing women.”

    Like


  202. @ Cannon’s Canon,

    Thanks. I was thinking about doing what you suggested and lowering my standards further. There was a girl who seemed sort of into me my senior year. I was gonna talk to her over break, but she’s been out of town.
    As pathetic as I’ve been, I’ve had at least 3 girls who have been into me throughout my adolescence. One I just flat out wasn’t attracted to, the other two I just managed to convince myself through insane beta ineptitude that it was all a sham and once I showed interest at all they’d run away.
    The next time a 5 or so shows any interest, I’m just going to run with it. At least my game will get tighter. Not sure when this opportunity will come up next though.

    Not to say I have high standards. The last girl I tried(pathetically) to get serious with was at best a 5 and some of my teammates called her plain ugly. She showed interest and I did run with it, but I got too attached(she was the first girl I had any remote interest in that aggressively pursued me to begin-I’m not used to that). After a few weeks of Beta of the Year worthy actions on my part she pretty coldly rejected me.

    A couple of others I talked up were 7’s, 6’s depending on who you talked to. I’ve been told consistently by my peers that I have low standards. Heh, I can’t afford high ones, though, can I?

    As for how deep I am into game, I lurk here a lot. I’ve read probably close to a hundred of Roissy’s entries since I found this site in September. I read a lot of Ferdinand Bardamu at Inmalafide as well as a couple of other sites(Whiskey, Novaseeker, etc). I’ve been lurking Roosh’s blog and forum for probably 6 months now, and I’ve read every Devlin essay.

    As of right now, my plan is to simply gain a better understanding of women(already working thanks to this place) so I can better deal with them and suppress at least some of my beta tendencies while I’m in college. I need to learn to stop putting them on a pedestal and just be more normal and aloof, which I think I’m learning to do. I go out now and just try to talk to my teammates and enjoy their company-girls are no longer a focus in any way. I was trying way too hard before. If I see them and a conversation starts, hopefully I can be relaxed and talk without seeming so needy and anxious to please, since my entire night wont revolve around seeking them out the way it used to.

    With that done, I just need to get a decent GPA, a good job, plenty of money and a plane ticket overseas. I have a feeling that if I’m really gonna recover, I’m better off not starting with American women. I’ve done enough reading to gain some deep and penetrating insight into their nature, and I don’t like it. My own experiences have only affirmed this conclusion. They’re generally extremely hostile to the type of guy I am(which, even in reformation, is still a provider type and at best a high beta) and that attitude is tiring. Quite frankly, I’m not even so eager to pursue them anymore. Its not like they’ll miss me.

    And I REFUSE to get married in this country. If I ever do tie the knot, it will be overseas. Sweden and the Phillipines have less punitive child support/alimony laws I can live with.

    Part of my problem is just my heritage. I come from a somewhat unique background-very conservative Jamaican mixed with old, proper English culture(mother born there, grandfather and grandmother immigrated from jamaica so grandfather could go to Oxford and later become a preacher, I spent most of my early years with them in Jamaica). Chivalry, especially towards women, was drilled heavily into me from birth, probably more so than even the average american beta. It was just how that culture lived. Marriage was a focal point. When I was 8, I told my aunt that I wanted to marry right after college and until then I’d work to find a woman to “commit to”. Frikkin 8 years old…the family thought it was cute.

    Its not their fault. As bummed as I am to only discover the truth now, they were from a different age, a more moral age.

    So few from that generation can really understand just how shitty things have become. I know now that if I had kept up that mentality I was going to:

    1) Get taken for a ride multiple times by American women, either being spectacularly rude, using me, cheating on me, or all of the above.
    2) Only end up with a 30 something in my later years due to ticking biological clocks and “good black man syndrome”.
    3) Probably lose half of whatever fortune I make in divorce, plus my kids.

    I’m not signing up for that.

    Like


  203. These guys are all dorks/losers.

    Like


  204. @Clio – “Was this an alpha email, fellows, or the height of passive-aggressive betahood?”

    He’s lonely and depressed and likely troubled by your marriage, and he’s masking it in a “trying too hard” show of bravado.

    Like


  205. #3 is the biggest beta – that guy is a 100% pussy! I bet he’s put up with other women cheating on him in the past. That guy is a complete loser if he actually supported her while she was in school. His story is one of the most pathetic I have ever read. His “girlfriend” was a complete whore, but it’s hard not to have contempt for such a pathetic excuse for a man. He probably kissed her ass throughout their “relationship.”

    If the other guy with whom she is cheating is smart, he’ll use her for sex and then dump her skanky ass. She sounds like the type of self-absorbed bitch who will wonder where it all went wrong for her when she hits her early 30s and hasn’t found another man willing to put up with her crap.

    Like


  206. I listened to that radio clip again and am convinced it is fake. There’s no way that a real person would have kissed that girl’s ass like that after she admitted to using him and cheating on him. Even a beta would have been pissed off!

    Like


  207. I guess the guy who wrote:

    “It is better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all”

    would win a beta of the month award.

    (Tennyson)

    Think how many men went wrong based on this sort of advice. This should read:

    He who screws and runs away, gets to screw another day.

    My advice to the football player, don’t fall in love with and marry the first girl you screw. I give this advice a lot, but, if you are nervous about women, practice on “escorts” and strippers. They really are not that expensive. They would likely find it delightful to spend time with a young football player. It will do wonders for your judgment and how you approach and assess a woman. What was that great quote from “The Spring”? When the uncle encourages his young nephew to marry, he replies, “I just to La Rue (something), and for 5 francs I can get any woman I want. It clears the mind.”

    Not saying that professionals are better, but, they are a lot better than nothing, especially if you are young, inexperienced, and nervous about approaching a woman.

    Like


  208. I love this in the Clio letter:

    “no, i am not in a relationship (as the saying goes) and had i been, it could hardly have been a bar to our correspondence anyway: i was always more genuinely interested in you as a person than as a sex/relationship object, even if you didnt know it (this seems to be the case with all my internet contacts: they all appear actively shopping, if you will, while i was out there to learn something (and, of course, never did).”

    Of course Clio, I am only interested in you sexually. None of the emo crap or “I really want to get you know you as a person…” I simply want to fuck you, fuck you often, and fuck you well. If we never exchanged names that would be fine by me.

    And we both know how much most women, despite their public protestations, secretly love to have a guy around who simply wants to fuck them, and fuck them well, and nothing more. I can’t even begin to tell you how many lonely, bored housewives and girlfriends whom I have been fucking have told me this, while their dumbass husbands and boyfriends remain clueless.

    Most women hate the emo crap coming from guys. They want strength, virility and protection. They can get the emo crap from their girlfriends.

    Like


  209. Quote: “The MILF/DILF should be put back up for historical interest (black the daughter’s face out if necessary). ”

    I fully agree. Even get rid of the photo all together.
    Some of the responses were awesome and are worth keeping.

    So , please …. put it back up.

    Like


  210. #1 dumb ass
    #2 sweet jesus that was a tough read
    #3 sweet jesus that was a tough listen, poor bastard.

    Like


  211. “Several pages are stuck together in his thesaurus from dried snot and the weak dribble from self gratification in despair.”

    ha…..ha…pages, thesaurus…..ha…ha… good one.

    Like


  212. @ Joel:

    You’re completely right. In fact, I’ve already made plans to do this. I may wait til I’m a bit older and overseas where it might be easier(and cheaper), but regardless I’m certainly doing it.

    I may be beta/undesirable here, but I could fly to the philipines and basically hit alpha status the minute I touch down. Asia is full of promise-I can go there and easily gain some experience and have some fun to, enjoying female company and my relative wealth due to low cost of living.

    I may go to Australia on study abroad next year to. I’ve heard good things about girls down under. Maybe I’ll get lucky.

    Like


  213. I will keep doing this until you give me a VOICE.

    Like


  214. #1 is a victim. His bitch wife probably threatened to castrate him, which she could easily get away with in today’s legal environment.

    Like


  215. #2 is a victim. If the woman were not supercharged on feminism, she would not run off and marry a man who does not want her as much as he does.

    Like


  216. Same goes for #3, although he should strive for making women suffer rather than giving them emotional fulfillment.

    Like


  217. You “players” need to get a grip and stop mocking victims. You do not know suffering.

    Like


  218. on December 15, 2009 at 9:14 pm unlearning genius ...

    @Clio,

    “Was this an alpha email, fellows, or the height of passive-aggressive betahood? What I can tell you about my own reaction is that I didn’t write back, or at least not until he’d written again.”

    Beta … As to why someone should want to chase an antiquated egg-carton like you is beyond me …

    Like


  219. on December 15, 2009 at 9:17 pm unlearning genius ...

    I will keep doing this until you give me a VOICE.

    hahahahahahaha .. hillarious! Roissy rarely moderates .. even uber morons like LR get a VOICE .. but if you say moronic things, you will not get a EAR ..

    Like


  220. >Some people here live in a bizarro world – the husband said, a little verbosely, I’ll beat your ass if you come near my wife. Just fine.

    He felt threatened and lashed out. He’s a beta.

    A beta thinks that they can keep their women faithful by keeping other men at a distance. It is a foolhardy approach that is destined to certain failure.

    The wife’s response was brilliant.

    Like


  221. Just listened to the clip…..holy fuck…ding, ding, ding…we have a winnah!

    Like


  222. Shit. 200+ posts in and no one comments on the similarities between Roissy’s writing style and that of guy #2? Content, you can fake–writing style betrays what lies beneath.

    Like


  223. Oh, but he wasn’t chasing me, UG. Didn’t you read the email I quoted?

    p.s. It was the fact that he was so defensive about NOT chasing me that made him sound beta. A more alpha response to my news would have been “oh, great. By the way, I wanted to ask you [insert question here]…” Strange, because the man really was an alpha by any ordinary definition, as far as I could tell. I just think that in his haste to prove his indifference, and demonstrate what an “antiquated egg-carton” he thought me, he overstepped the mark.

    Like


  224. on December 15, 2009 at 10:02 pm unlearning genius ...

    @aliasclio,

    You are back .. I have missed you.

    “Oh, but he wasn’t chasing me ” .. but of course he was .. nobody invests time in crafting prose that is obviously proofread .. This is the same old script … guy likes girl .. guy has approach anxiety .. guy approaches indirectly appearing uninterested .. guy tries to befriend girl .. guy shows off his intellect .. This works if the guy can induce doubts .. does he like me or does he not .. In this case, it is so clear even to me .. your intuition (which seems to me more developed than your thinking) easily realized that there wasn’t much ambiguity here .. hence your vuisceral response.

    A more alpha response to my news would have been “oh, great. By the way, I wanted to ask you [insert question here]…” .. naah, he should neg at this point .. this dude is no alpha .. maybe his looks got you to think of him as an alpha.

    Like


  225. on December 15, 2009 at 10:06 pm unlearning genius ...

    @clio,

    I mean the greatest and accurate alpha detector ever is in your own body .

    Like


  226. Entrepoon,

    That’s why I wasn’t the one running the counterterrorism ops, but rather piecing together a lot of the victims just in back of the Seam Line. As for the “not like us”, I tend to want to split the difference: people with options by accident of birth are different from people who have options they’ve cultivated and both groups are different from those without options.

    I am probably not a good expert on CT for the same reasons I’m not a good expert on philosophy of pick-up: starting out from too far in the rear and shielded from most of the downside by a combination of dumb luck and caution. Feminists DO insist that women resemble men, at least in the fact that they experience desire, lust, etc, but most of the reason I insist on similarity (“like us”) is because within my race/religion/language/social class I’ve been able to find partners from time to time. I imagine someone much more extroverted and attractive (and I’ve been an extrovert without being powerful, conventionally physically attractive, or monied), working exogamously to capitalize on his exoticism, would find women both more foreign and more accepting.

    Like


  227. Keith,

    @Clio – “Was this an alpha email, fellows, or the height of passive-aggressive betahood?”

    He’s lonely and depressed and likely troubled by your marriage, and he’s masking it in a “trying too hard” show of bravado.

    I hope he isn’t lonely and depressed, as I don’t wish the man any harm, but it’s one possible reason for his very sudden reappearance. I doubt that he was at all troubled by my upcoming marriage, though. It’s been a long time, nearly two years, in fact, since we’d written to each other. Anyway, it was never more than a flirtation.

    He was just over-anxious to show he didn’t care one way or another. A point to remember, for those men who want to avoid putting themselves at a disadvantage with a woman.

    Like


  228. Sometimes it’s hard to define what Alphas are, but it may be easier to define what Alphas Are Not.

    Alphas are NEVER supplicating.

    Like


  229. on December 15, 2009 at 11:31 pm unlearning genius ...

    “It’s been a long time, nearly two years, in fact, since we’d written to each other. ..”

    smells like beta to me .. who the hell writes to a woman that they haven’t fucked after a 2 yr break? Seeking opinion my ass .. there are professionals that you go to for the best advice. You don’t have to tell the backstory. It is very obvious supplication in the email.

    “A point to remember, for those men who want to avoid putting themselves at a disadvantage with a woman.”

    A point to remember guys is NOT TO LISTEN to a woman, that will certainly send your Y-chrom to oblivion. Even old hens like clio with above average intelligence (average of female intelligence) have no clue. They cannot predict nor can they explain the occurrence or absence of that elusive G-ting.

    Like


  230. I may be beta/undesirable here, but I could fly to the philipines and basically hit alpha status the minute I touch down.

    You’ve got that right. But also please understand that women of SE Asia are professional women. They rely on the their relations with men, in one way or another, for their livelihood and security. They know what they are doing.

    That doesn’t mean they are all whores, it just means they can and do game men ruthlessly. Be it for marriage or for short time. Watch out and don’t believe a word any woman says. Just enjoy the ride, as long as it lasts.

    These women are not the innocents many like to believe they are. Not even the religious virgins. Women know what buttons to push, and why.

    Enjoy the minefield. It’s a blast.

    The learning curve swings like a baseball bat out here.

    Like


  231. Bro

    You “players” need to get a grip and stop mocking victims. You do not know suffering.

    Nobody understands you, and your powerful, soulful angst. Poor, isolated, sensitive you. If only people could understand you, that would show em, and you’d get the recognition of greatness you deserve. Why are people so unimpressed with your suffering!?

    Isn’t there some teen angst anthem with lyrics along those lines?

    Like


  232. on December 16, 2009 at 12:04 am unlearning genius ...

    @xspat
    “These women are not the innocents many like to believe they are. Not even the religious virgins. Women know what buttons to push, and why.
    Enjoy the minefield. It’s a blast.
    The learning curve swings like a baseball bat out here. ”

    Brother knows what he is talking about here. Basically, all humans want and seek power. Most white guys will be manipulated in such an amazingly feminine way that they wont even know what hit them. Women have always had their bag of tricks and in the old world the tricks are passed down the generations.

    This is one reason why I like american women so much. After you deal with the old-world women, there is a certain naivete to them, that I like.

    Like


  233. I think I know what you mean, unlearning, but isn’t that a choice of which edge of the sword you want to cut yourself with?

    Western women seem naive because they ignore their feminine wiles, and claim equality. Sure, at first that has a certain charm. It holds out the promise of male-like conversation – rational and sane.

    But after a while you find out that western girls are also completely female, regardless of pretending to be like men.

    That’s why I choose women who retain their feminine wiles. Who don’t get cranky at how it’s unfair that I don’t clean the toilet.

    Like


  234. Nashville

    Get it now? The dude knows how to use words to provoke feelings. I wouldn’t be surprised if his day job was some sort of emo songwriter. But on the whole, it’s the feelings he’s provoked that have caused us to scorn him, not the simple fact that he overuses adjectives (although that is a bit of a sign too).

    I get what you are saying, but disagree.

    That he has emotions and can express them does not make for persuasive writing. It’s the very style that makes the substance powerless.

    No matter in what direction he wants to influence someone, he’s hobbled by his style.

    Even if he is merely trying to be descriptive and not invoke any specific feeling in others, his style hobbles on two sprained ankles.

    If you want to get a point across to women, and can only remember one element of style, remember this: rhythm.

    Like


  235. on December 16, 2009 at 12:27 am unlearning genius ...

    @xsplat,

    “I think I know what you mean, unlearning, but isn’t that a choice of which edge of the sword you want to cut yourself with? ”

    Oh yes, at the end of the day, they are all women .. and they are all fun and devious in their own ways. I guess the main point is that women are clever power wielding creatures. That isn’t a bad thing .. just that it is better to be aware and play accordingly.

    You know what i am talking about friend.

    Like


  236. Comment in moderation. In brief to Nashville: If you want to get a point across to women, and can only remember one element of style, remember this: rhythm.

    Like


  237. I’ve been reading Roissy for over a year and this is the first time I can remember him going 2 weekdays in a row without a post. Must be on vacation. The guy deserves it. Keep up the good work Roissy.

    Like


  238. M.L.: “this guy Andrew likely feels no catharsis at all for bearing his soul to the world on f-book.”

    He didn’t “bare his soul to the world”…that was a private message. Until it got reprinted on this site!!!

    Like


  239. The following article is a good example of the “advice” given to so many unsuspecting ‘betas’ by the broader, gynocentric ‘culture’.

    I think many of these clueless men follow the “advice” of “women” such as this lying shrew — who wants men to give up any shred of power (and dignity) that he may possess.

    ==

    How to Meet Beautiful Women – The Myths Versus the Realities

    “There are countless articles on web pages about how to meet or attract beautiful women. However, it seems that these articles have been written by men, especially men who seem to be out to ‘conquer’ as many women as possible. This advice is fine if your sole purpose is to spread yourself around and you have decided that the targets of your overtures are women who lack the brains and self-confidence to understand your underhanded methods. Now, if it is a smart, quality woman you are after, someone who you can see yourself spending time with and showing off to your friends, these tricks are probably going to make you look like a prize idiot or worse. So what is a regular guy supposed to do? Firstly, you need to forget most of the myths you have about beautiful women and treat them like the real people that they are.”

    Myth No. 1. ‘All Beautiful Women Are Used to Being Approached by Men.’

    “In reality, due to men’s inherent fear of being rejected, normal guys rarely (if ever) approach very attractive women. In most guys’ minds, beautiful women are out of their league. Too often, they are considered a ’score’ for really arrogant men who aren’t really interested in them as people. It’s a fact that most women, including the really attractive ones, really just want to meet someone normal who makes them laugh. So be normal, friendly and say something nice about what she is wearing. Strike up a normal conversation and see where it goes.”

    Myth No. 2 ‘All Beautiful Women Have a Bitch Factor.’

    “A typical conversation between man and beautiful woman often includes some attempt to deflate her assumed ‘bitch factor’, presumably designed to bring the woman down to the man’s level. This usually only results in making the man look pathetic and lacking in self-confidence. And to a quality woman, lack of self-confidence is a real turn-off. Before you start talking to a woman, assume she’s a really nice person and speak to her in a way she deserves. Women are more likely to respond well to genuine warmth.”

    Myth No.3 ‘If I Appear Uninterested and Aloof, She’ll be More Interested.’

    “Here’s another really dangerous one. Because more often than not, you’ll just come across as a jerk. No woman ever wants to suffer the indignity of spending time with a cold uninterested man. And don’t ever hand a woman your phone number and ask her to call you. It’s really lame. The best thing to do is to appear interested. Ask for her phone number and when she gives it, call her!”

    Myth No. 4 ‘Beautiful Women are Interested in Outward Signs of Success.’

    “Talking about yourself in a way that is designed to impress, i.e, your university degree, your expensive car, your high-paying job will at least make you appear boring and, at worst, conceited. It’s better to ask her about her interests, jobs, friends etc. Too often, in an attempt to ‘win’ the woman over men forget to treat her like a person who has her own ideas, likes and dislikes. A woman doesn’t like to be thought of as a commodity.”

    “So now you should have a better understanding of what to do when a cute girl is in your midst. So go out there and knock ‘em dead. If you meet a beautiful woman and she does come across as aloof, conceited or an airhead, she is not a quality woman and you should move on. You may also want to consider that there are some super average-looking girls out there.”

    ==

    http://ezinearticles.com/?How-to-Meet-Beautiful-Women—The-Myths-Versus-the-Realities&id=3036229

    *Seems like one big ’sh-t test, huh?

    Like


  240. @patrick -“While a healthy skepticism is a good thing, you’re letting it get the better of you here, and it turn, this makes you seem unreceptive to the palpable reality of a pathetic man and his exquisitely usurious whore of a girlfriend. This is not a contrived reflection of reality but a painfully exposed slice of it. ”

    Oh I believe men and women act like that in desperate attempts to get their love objects back. No doubt. But I feel the radio show sounds scripted. Perhaps I’m just putting myself in the mind of the woman and can’t imagine hurting anyone that way publically – on the radio. What goes on in private is another matter. Just sayin…

    Like


  241. @xsplat

    You are missing the part about making women fall in love with you. When that happens, they have no game. It is just like my father who was the man of the house. My mother stuck to him like glue.

    I know when a woman loves me or not. They will cry if you even get the least bit angry with them or even if you don’t wear your hat in the cold.

    Like


  242. I was first considering nr 3 bc it was so painful to listen to but then i thought about facebook ultra loser and thought he had to be it, then i looked at the photo and said to myself HA! this is it

    its a very even battle.. i really hated the facebook creeper maybe bc i could see part of my old beta-self in him. fucking loser. back-stabbing, coward, creepy idiot. to his defence though: i didn’t like her new husband either.

    making yourself into a living chair in the subway is very very very humiliating and ultra-beta but let’s face it:

    being cuck-olded and then beg her to stay and ask her how he might be whipped best so she will stay and practically pay her for everything is the ultimate beta behaviour. Therefore Konor # 3 you are BETA OF THE MONTH @ Roissy’s.

    KONOR: She want’s a man who will not let himself be pussy-whipped but man up and be a man. She doesn’t want a pseudo-female, she wants a male. SHE SPELLS IT OUT FOR YOU. THE RADIO HOST SPELLS IT OUT FOR YOU. How can this possibly be any clearer? Your existence is an abomination. How can you be so fucking stupid? You are what I like to call a total failure. If there is any sort of manhood left in you, you need to do some very deep soul searching.

    Like


  243. @ Chi-town, I’m not sure which comment of mine you are addressing.

    I agree that women fall in love.

    Like


  244. […] a poster on Roissy’s site, alerted me to the truth, which was spilled on copyblogger.com, in all likelihood in a moment of drunken hubris. After […]

    Like


  245. @Xsplat

    I find myself agreeing with this,

    No matter in what direction he wants to influence someone, he’s hobbled by his style.

    His style stands in the way of any other goal he might be trying to achieve. In this case, by dwelling and expounding on his misery, he amplifies the natural revulsion people feel toward such pitiable creatures, which we regard him as due to the language he uses.

    You have somewhat persuaded me. I still contend that it is in tandem with his fluency, but you are right to attribute other causes as well.

    Like


  246. My new post:

    Escorts are a better deal than ‘real’ women- I

    I am still amazed about how I managed to live a quarter century without Lucifer´s blog

    Like


  247. @xsplat

    “That doesn’t mean they are all whores, it just means they can and do game men ruthlessly. Be it for marriage or for short time. Watch out and don’t believe a word any woman says. Just enjoy the ride, as long as it lasts.”

    More or less with this. I do agree that we are designed to exploit each other. However a women in love has little ability to game anything. You can have pretty drama free relations if this is maintained.

    Like


  248. Too bad it’s too late for this guy to be in the running.

    His wife slits his throat to run off to a tryst with a married man and he says he still loves her and can’t wait for her to get out of prison.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1236372/I-love-says-husband-wife-slit-throat-driving-meet-internet-lover.html

    Like


  249. I do agree that we are designed to exploit each other. However a women in love has little ability to game anything. You can have pretty drama free relations if this is maintained.

    For a while, and for the most part, ya.

    Todays a drama day over here. Two girls at war, trying to make me in the middle of it.

    Like


  250. To the Jamaican student: you are a young black man in a mostly white college possibly experiencing racism from young white liberal women Democrats? If so…sorry the liberal media didn’t warn you.

    I see you gave yourself better advice than the 7 points I gave you above – although beefing up with weights or swimming is seriously good advice.

    You advised yourself to go to Asia. But do that now.

    Do that next semester and transfer credits.

    You will learn how women can behave toward you and, when you return to the USA, you will do better because your EXPECTATIONS will be there.

    So go now. You don’t need to graduate from that US college and you certainly don’t need to get into the trap of thinking you will have to start a career in the US and earn money first.

    In Asia you can get a job easily because they need someone with perfect English to represent them.

    You are not a Beta if you aren’t being flirted with at all. You just need physical help. A Beta is someone a woman might initially flirt with but then he blows it by non-action or girly behavior. Take the guy on Twitter @walkerofcrags for instance. He is a tough sounding beta who says his wife “bought the copyright to his life”.

    Meanwhile, some more points to add to the 7 above:

    8) Get a crewcut. Long hair says feminine beta and even looks ridiculous on a man over 30. A crewcut is an immediate visual clue that you are NOT metrosexual. See “Die Hard” for hairstyle tips. You need to change your look anyway to get new attention and a new chance.

    9) Sit down in the cafeteria with some of the more beautiful women (maybe from one of your classes – you will want to discuss the upcoming final exam) after your new haircut and wardrobe change (and after a few workouts) and directly ask how they can give you a makeover out of beta status. Maybe ask them how you can be made ready to date a specific woman who is visiting from Jamaica or something. They will likely want to help.

    10) Read Email from a mobile device and chuckle that you are just checking your investments and then wink. They will wonder if its true but you can just be enigmatic about that. 🙂

    Like


  251. 11) Contrary to the advice about hiring a professional, note that the last thing any man *needs* to do is hire a pro when there are enough amateurs who can be convinced to start.

    Just get a conversation going like a good bonfire. You can start by knowing everything about Twilight and they will have a great time discussing the Twilight books and movies with you. Then discuss why the girl wants to date a 100 year old man and was it his money? The coeds will answer. Then discuss things like nudist colonies and the “business” and is it seen as normal – this will weed out the radical feminists on campus with whom you should immediately end all attempts to befriend.

    Then ask what hypothetical amount would make them do a lapdance (don’t suggest anything potentially unhealthy).

    Be ready to immediately say you can handle the relatively low number they name and laugh about being ready when they are.

    You will be astonished at what happens then. They will call you.

    Like


  252. “With that done, I just need to get a decent GPA, a good job, plenty of money and a plane ticket overseas. I have a feeling that if I’m really gonna recover, I’m better off not starting with American women”

    @JLaw45: Man a feel bad for you, mainly because I can see a lot of myself in your story. You don’t need a decent GPA, a good job and plenty of money to get girls. But you know this already don’t you.

    Anyways I think travelling will be great for you to get your mind off girls and relax. Remember life is a marathon not a sprint. You have plently of time, you just need to take one step at a time to the life you want.

    Like


  253. @ assman:

    “You don’t need a decent GPA, a good job and plenty of money to get girls. But you know this already don’t you.”

    I need the confidence all of that might give me. I know a lot of really rich men are betas, but i really do feel a solid career and some cash will at least help me feel like less of a beta and maybe, just MAYBE give me enough confidence to approach and keep a girl. Combine that with the knowledge of women I can get here and it might work out ok.

    Plus, the cash will help me get overseas where I have a way better shot at actually landing a decent girl for a while.

    Worse comes to worse, I can gain experience from a steady stream of gold diggers. As long as I can recognize who they are and avoid falling in love(this site and others help with that), I can at least enjoy some female company and gain confidence until a worthy girl comes along.

    @Jerry Ertans:

    Thanks for all of the advice. I’m going to try a few of your suggestions the next time I get a shot. I’ve already got something of a crewcut going, and I hate my hair any longer than that(I’d never get dreads).

    Physique wise, I’m 5’10, roughly 225 pounds, but with a stocky as opposed to round build. I don’t have a 6 pack(more like a 4) but I can go to a beach and feel ok about myself. I look more like a bodybuilder than a beachbod. Objective opinions have put me at around a 6.5-7 on the looks scale-the physique is one of the few things I’m consistently complimented on.

    Your advice on seeking wardrobe expertise might be useful, though. A couple of my teammates(who are both very, very alpha) suggested that I should just wear tighter clothes and go shirtless whenever I get the opportunity in order to show off. Would that be useful? From what I’ve read, looks dont matter all that much with girls if you lack the confidence, and if you’re as beta as I am they might not matter at all.
    Plus, my physique hasn’t worked with chicks yet anyhow…

    Here’s a photo to give an idea:

    I’m a large, muscular, black male who happens to play college football. That type of guy is stereotyped as a super confident, masculine “alpha” by our society-when people look at me, they’re surprised that I’ve had such little experience. I think I might have that perception working against me to…

    Oh, and I cant go to Asia next year sadly. My choices are Australia, Germany, or Barcelona. I figured I could potentially hit a cheap flight to SE Asia from Sydney during the semester though.

    Like


  254. I totally agree that BDSM is an alpha fetish. The best is when the man fetishizes licking the salt off his dominatrix lover’s toes while she whips him. 🙂

    Like


  255. Dude…You’re doing OK then. Looks do matter, mainly the height and weight – where you’re well above average. I was concerned that you didn’t have much to work with and needed to read a ton of books to have a chance.

    As it is, just watch the Twilight films and read the last book (from the vampire’s perspective) and then seek out Twilight groups (groupies) on campus.

    You don’t have the football player expectation working against you…you would have it working FOR you if you showed yourself to be shy and thoughtful. Women don’t want guys with STDs. It is an advantage to be inexperienced. A 7 would love to be the shy football player’s girl.

    What you DO need to do is to smell nice and be able to approach women to help you with your homework and, dare I say it, you can ask them directly if they can help you overcome your social shyness.

    Try a Facebook and Twitter account for starters. Learn to socialize there.

    Since you have the looks department mostly covered, it is going to depend on your having the same interests, having read the same books and seen the same films.

    It really separates the men from the boys if you have some topic seriously in common. Take a course in Chinese, for instance, and you will soon have the Chinese exchange students as your best friends.

    Let’s analyze that: What books and films have you read and watched that really got your interest, causing you to investigate more and about which you can talk for an hour on each topic?

    Example: I saw a film about an historical event that happened in a foreign city and visited the city where it happened and was filmed and I can talk about every scene – whether it really happened or not.

    Try this: Can you talk about the difference between the book and the movie of some famous book? Twilight for example. Women in the dorms love to talk with each other about the difference between the book and the film.

    You will probably want to be just friends with a few women on campus to start.

    After that, that is when you can mine what this site is all about…having the guts to ask for their company and to hold their hand and don’t let your hand pull back out of fear of rejection.

    Like


  256. Jamaican guy: what they really want is a connection. If you look and smell OK, including no cavities – good dental care is more important than pearly whiteness, wear detergent smelling cotton clothing they can cuddle into, your primary aim is to establish that connection.

    I was on a second date recently where the coed announced she was a really introverted, closed person and showed body language to back it up. You have to look at this behavior not as a hopeless rejection scenario but as a challenge where they are saying “OK, entertain me if you can big boy cause I’m gonna pretend I’m a shy girl in a shell if you can’t perform”.

    As a man, you have no choice but to entertain. Humans have evolved so that the peacock’s strutting carries over to a male human in the form of display of knowledge and anecdotes and humor. At this point you already have the date or second date and the number has already been closed. The hard part, and rewarding part, is establishing the connection once you’ve been put on deck.

    Getting the date is just getting up to bat. Finding that book or topic you have in common is getting a hit. When you are connecting on that topic, reach across the table and hold her hand or both her hands in both of yours. A hit has to be something that other guys are not connecting with her on.

    I don’t need to do this anymore but it would be a good idea for you to go into a date almost with a page of notes on what to talk about:

    3 Latest News Topics
    3 Latest Cultural Phenomena (Avatar now in theaters)
    3 Jokes that don’t polarize yourself politically or are too racy
    Know the words to the songs you think might be among her favorites

    Heck, even if she sees you with the crib notes, she might find that cute.

    You don’t need to know everything because the test is graded based on how many points you DID score with (she laughs several times, she says “I like that too!”, or “you know the words?!”).

    You’d be surprised how many men are so woefully unprepared that they don’t score at all and the date ends miserably and soon.

    Make sure you say “I really like being with you and hope we can see each other more often”. Back off when necessary. There is nothing wrong at your stage of the game, in a 7 or 8 being just friends with you. You can build your confidence from a just friends situation.

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  257. @Jerry:

    Thanks a ton for all of the advice. Some of my nerdy hobbies include scourin g current events for fun online and reading novels/downloading movies, so i should have no shortage of information to draw on for these conversations.

    I think some liquid courage might help to. I’ve only been drunk twice, and those were the times I got closest to closing a girl.

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  258. My experience is the opposite! If you are the only sober guy in the room, you can take anyone you want away from a drunk guy with sincere talk about how attracted you are to her, especially if you can convincingly say it is because of their intellect. Seek out those situations and stay sober as a priest while otherwise not being one.

    Avatar is political so it might be a minefield topic by the way. I hated the film because it depicted a Johnny Taliban traitor killing US troops. You don’t want to polarize things politically with a woman – but you do want to check early on if she hates men and ignore her if she does.

    Now…make a list of every book/film topic you can discuss and find a friend (male or female) to practice “conversation” on. Ask your friend to give you points whenever you say something that makes them think you are more interesting than the average guy and take away points when you bore them with something.

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  259. Roissy,

    if real, the guy on the radio would POSSIBLY take the cake here, but keep in mind that radio stations are in the business of ratings and will orchestrate all kinds of fake phone calls like these just to attract listeners. we have no way of knowing whether or not this call was even real. my gut tells me that it wasn’t based on the fact that the girl answered the phone from a mysterious number (something girls don’t normally do), she answered AGAIN when they called back (unlikely), she STAYED ON THE PHONE after being told she was ON RADIO. all these War of the Roses calls have always sounded phony to me. plus, the dude was so over the top beta, it’s really hard to fathom.

    the Facebook guy was bonafide, though. that is true-blue balls beta. that guy is the hands-down winner in my book.

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  260. Thats Great guys if you need any tips or tricks check out my site

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  261. This is a HUGE discussion!

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  262. […] Last month’s winner, by a healthy margin, was a cuckold who asked his cheating girlfriend on a call-in radio program how he could “make her love him more”. She told him, in essence, to grow a pair, but he proved unable to escape his beta hell vortex. Congratulations to reader Patrick for submitting that vomitous entry. […]

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  263. on January 26, 2010 at 1:28 am wandering stars

    Beta.

    The whole problem with the Alpha/Beta system is that eventually life Betas you. It ends like:

    You died.

    Beta.

    So why waste your life. Just think your way out of that system. If you want to be “Alpha”, just decide to start acting that way and forget about it.

    The beauty of it is all is BETAS CAN BECOME ALPHAS.

    I’m living proof.

    For example, one time I wrote a drunk email to a gorgeous woman…

    (fade to guitar music…)

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  264. Oh My God…. OH MY GOD OH MY GOD HAHAHAHAHHA

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  265. #3 of course.

    Carla’s husband: I’m confused here. The wife never mentioned you when we went down the list of the men she spread for before we got hitched. Wonder what that means? hmm. Boy wouldn’t it be nice if I didn’t have to tell you not to contact my wife again instead of just telling her in private “You don’t have my permission to have any contact with this loser. If he does this again, let me know and I’ll take care of it.”

    But you know, old flame, I can’t say that; I’m married in the USA. So how about we meet up? You like eating dick? Let’s meet up and we can setup a menage.

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