George Sodini Was At A Seduction Seminar

It looks like I was right about George Sodini knowing about the seduction community (or a niche of it, at any rate). He was at an R. Don Steele seminar for “picking up women” called “The Right Attitude Workshop“. (Hat tip: reader Thras.) I put “picking up women” in quotes because R. Don Steele is widely held to be something of a buffoon in the pickup community.

R. Don is the “PUA” that older guys with little knowledge of real game turn to, lured by his cheesy marketing claiming success at teaching older men how to pick up younger women. Ross Jeffries, a pioneer of game based on “neurolinguistic programming”, used to have it out with Steele on usenet back in the day. The end result of their spastic internet bickering was to make both men look like tools (Jeffries should have maintained more state control) and to serve as evidence that Steele is a poseur out of step with mainstream seduction science. That Sodini went to a Steele workshop for help in picking up women shows that Sodini was unaware of Steele’s poor reputation and the legitimate (and more effective) alternatives in the seduction community that were available to him. Whatever Sodini learned at Steele’s workshop, it wasn’t anything that would have helped him get laid or given him the tools to gradually shed his crippling betatude.

I stand by my claim that learning real game, not the breathlessly marketed cheeseball “techniques” for picking up younger women that one would find at a Steele workshop, would have helped Sodini find a woman who would love him, and thus avert the killings that he felt compelled by his demons to carry out.

***

Commenter Zdeno wrote:

Sodini definitely counts as a data point against the hypothesis that “every man can save himself, if only he knows GAME.” He was obviously aware of the seduction community, but the tools available to him weren’t enough.

This blog’s readership is generally accepting of HBD, right? We admit that intelligence, not to mention almost every psychological trait worth measuring, are all primarily genetically determined. Physical traits and athletic ability follow the same pattern. Why do we assume that game is uniquely malleable? It’s like as soon as we start talking about success with women, everyone’s a Gladwell-reading Blank Slatist.

I thus submit the following to the list pretty lies: Game is to a large extent genetically determined. In a polygamous society, some men will be left out of the sexual marketplace regardless of how many negs they memorize.

Define “save”. If by “save” you mean that every man can land a supermodel with expert level game, then yes, I would agree that is a flawed hypothesis. But if you mean, more realistically and less misleadingly of what the seduction community actually claims, that the great majority of men can improve their lot with women by learning game, then the hypothesis is true: The great majority of men in need of saving *can* save themselves with game. A guy similar to Sodini, with a years-long pussy drought weighing down his psyche and his balls, can go from involuntary celibacy to getting laid with chicks one to two points higher than what he is used to banging just by learning game. And by “game”, I mean the whole panoply of male mate value increasing strategies and tactics; from negs to wardrobe upgrades to avoiding the worst beta impulses when interactions with women don’t proceed smoothly.

As most of my readers are probably aware, I believe that genetic predisposition plays a large role in shaping our personalities and fate in life, and in limiting what we can achieve. At least, it plays a much larger role than what the current prevailing mis-wisdom would have you believe. This is why I am not a dyed-in-the-wool libertarian. However, neither am I a determinist. If genetic determinism were the be-all and end-all of human existence, then game would not work at all. You’d either “have the knack”, or you wouldn’t. But years of success with game by thousands of men of varying genetic blessings has proven that game is teachable, it is learn-able, and it will improve the love lives of, and the quality of women available to, the majority of men who make a serious effort to understand game and the nature of women.

There will always be those wretched omega outliers, those psychologically stripped betas, and those congenitally desperate losers in life who will not benefit from game. These pitiable shadows of men in our midst serve to remind us of the cruel indifference of the natural world, and the ultimate pointlessness of everything we do. And, yes, what this means is that some men, because of their inherent natural gifts, will find success with game sooner, and easier, than other men.

But does it follow from such a truth that game is a Blank Slatist wolf in womanizer’s clothing? Should we instead tell the left side of the desireability bell curve to hang up their cleats and go home to rot until the end of their days? No. Tell them the truth: Game will help you find sex and love. It won’t help you as much as, or as effortlessly as, better looking men, or richer men, or smarter men, or more charming men, or more adaptable men, but it will help. And that is the choice before you: To learn the art of seduction and at least give yourself a fighting chance to score more often and with women better looking and more personable than what you are accustomed to scoring, or to give up all hope and masturbate your life away to the gloomy flicker of an LCD while your fat cow American wife thrashes you to within an inch of your pride.

Really, isn’t the choice obvious?





Comments


  1. on August 6, 2009 at 1:24 pm Raymo in LeDroit

    Shame the main stream media does not cover this as you do. Would be a warning to those with pre-teen sons out there.

    Like


  2. A good thoughtful post, Roissy. The one criticism I’d have is that this argument can lead to a “No True Scotsman” fallacy, in which anyone who failed has not learned “real game.”

    You seem to be staying fair so far, but I’d wonder if you would remain so if Sodini had turned to one of the established gurus and failed. Would you be able to admit that game had failed, or would you simply say that he hadn’t learned it properly?

    Like


  3. just a bit curious how are Steele’s methods for picking up women different from yours?

    didnt even know there was a pickup community .

    Like


  4. Nice Floyd allusion there at the end!

    Like


  5. George Sodini will beat Sarah Palin in the number of posts devoted to him

    and he deserves that.

    Like


  6. the HBD crowd belief that game can help anyone is akin to the liberal belief that education will lift everyone to middle class status

    they are not exactly wrong, but both overstate their cases

    Like


  7. So, good game arises from Mystery’s followers?

    [editor: it arises from many sources, some better than others.]

    Like


  8. I like the Pink Floyd paraphrase at the end…

    Like


  9. the HBD crowd belief that game can help anyone is akin to the liberal belief that education will lift everyone to middle class status

    they are not exactly wrong, but both overstate their cases

    it depends on how we define help? general improvement? a phone number or two where before you got none? occasional sex where before you had involuntary celibacy? then yeah, i think it can help anyone.

    but if help means turning everyone into a stone cold player, even a low-level player, then i agree people are overstating their cases.

    Like


  10. groan. expect this to be picked up by the MSM as another example of his crippling character flaws.

    i met ross jeffries once, and despite his nerdy nature, he had a certain cockiness and presence which indicated that he deserved his early acclaim as a pickup pioneer. even if he was overtaken by the growth of the community and newer techniques.

    second half of post appropriately measured, nuanced, and right on the money.

    Like


  11. Nadia, from what I’ve seen, one of the crucial differences is that Steele takes what women say about what they want way too seriously. From what people (women or men) *say* about what they want when asked directly, you only learn what they want people to think they want. Their assesment of what they want you to hear taints their answers too much.

    One has to be able to read between the lines of what they say and watch their behavior over time. It’s like if you’re trying to tell the difference between a separatist and a supremacist.

    So this could also serve as a cautionary tale about what can happen if the wrong guy gets bad advice. I’m female, and I could barely sit through some of the YouTube selections without nausea. I can’t imagine what might have been welling up inside a guy with the willingness to kill over it.

    Like


  12. r. don
    that bastard

    at least savoy woulda gave his registration fee back

    Like


  13. So,in order to deter future nut bags,what is a good basic course that a fledgling PUA should study? Everyone mentions DeAngelo & mystery. What others??

    Like


  14. Sorry for 2nd post:is Ross Jeffries at all legitimate anymore?? Is NLP worth anything?

    [editor: i have my doubts about the effectiveness of NLP. though supposedly ross jeffries is good in the field.]

    Like


  15. Mark, I’m not sure if PUA as a focus is going to deter a nutbag. Maybe part of the program should be a kind of sponsor like in AA.

    Lots of guys out there didn’t have a strong father figure, and some like Sodini, don’t have friends. I wonder if having even an assigned mentor/partner would have helped. I’d like to think it would have.

    My dad has helped guys as a mentor in a spiritual context. My brother does mentorship of at-risk youth. Some guys should probably do that for PUA’s too.

    Like


  16. on August 6, 2009 at 2:32 pm Seeking Alpha

    @ All

    Surprising Economist cover this week

    ‘America’s unjust sex laws’

    In America we look at the country’s sex laws, which we believe are unnecessarily harsh and counterproductive: some 670,000 people are now on registries of sex offenders, more than the population of several states—and many are there for doing things that, though unwise, hardly justify a lifetime of persecution. Yet the political pressure for still tougher restrictions continues.

    When a (socially) liberal bastion like The Economist brings up the topic, that’s a good sign.

    Like


  17. I have alot of male friends who i’ve tried to introduce to game, who NEED IT. They all seem to like the idea and agree it may work. But almost always some personality trait stops them from actually learning and implelmenting it: laziness, low IQ/attention span, lack of enough desire, etc.
    I have this one male friend who is always in some pathetic one-itis over some mediocre-ass looking chick. (he is usually way ahead of her in the looks department.) I’ve tried to give him bite-size hints about not supplicating, using humor, negs, etc. He agrees its all a good idea, but when he meets the girl (either his one-itis or some eHarmony girl) his view of women as goddesses seems to take over and he is afraid to say anthing remotely “offensive” and bores her to death with his earnest questions – she is usually gone within days.
    Nice guy that I am, I once spent 50 bucks at Kinko’s printing out Mystery’s Venusian arts handbook. He read maybe about 4 pages of it.
    In order to make game work, I think guys have to have be able to set up a GOAL orientation on a day to day, week to week, year to year basis. Unless you’re an almost-natural just waiting to come out of his shell, committing to learning game is like starting your own business, and requires a similar mind-set, that most people don’ t have.

    Like


  18. mark ye inquired:

    what is a good basic course that a fledgling PUA should study? Everyone mentions DeAngelo & mystery. What others??

    pick out a guy with a cool pua name. send him a check for $3700. meet at a hotel conference room for some cool overhead projection grfx. google attractionforum and they’ll welcome you as long as you don’t criticize anyone or any thing.

    hey: send me money – I have a cool name and a blackboard.

    just don’t tell obsidian – he’ll think I’m oppressing it

    Like


  19. Seeking Alpha,

    Bible thumpers are worse than SWPLers.

    SWPLers mostly look down on others, bible thumpers want to imprison, harass and kill you for being different.

    Like


  20. So,in order to deter future nut bags,what is a good basic course that a fledgling PUA should study? Everyone mentions DeAngelo & mystery. What others??

    Mehow’s stuff is the bomb. Look up Mehow Get The Girl. Savoy’s Magic Bullets is also well regarded. I also like BradP and his Underground Dating Seminar.

    Like


  21. on August 6, 2009 at 2:44 pm Seeking Alpha

    Lucy

    What do Bible Thumpers vs. SWPLers have to do with anything I said?

    Like


  22. on August 6, 2009 at 2:47 pm The Fifth Horseman

    The types of men who benefit the most from Game are :

    1) Men who are decent looking and with good but Beta jobs that reinforce anti-Game personality traits (engineer, MBA, doctor), and thus are still baffled as to why they still cannot get women.
    2) Naturals who already get results, but may not be aware of many other opportunities they are passing up, by not knowing about Mystery Method’s various stages.
    3) Divorced guys, who can use Game as part of the therapeutic process.

    These three types of men get the biggest gains out of Game.

    Sodini falls into the first category.

    Like


  23. Statutory rape is the first faux sex crime that has to go.

    Like


  24. I fear that my ex-husband is becoming like Sodini. Any advice? I can’t even help him directly because he is so angry and bitter.

    Like


  25. something else strikes me about sodini…it’s hard for me to sort out. he made a video showing which showed he had the means to keep a woman. he worked out. he had a nice job. he was a good looking guy for a 48 year old. he talked about monetary figures and discussed things as if, because of those material things and because he possessed all of the “tools”, he should be able to get women. but he obviously wasn’t.

    it fueled the fire of his frustration and rage, but it makes me think that he sort of willed it that way. we need to learn more about his past sex life. why did he start having a drought all of a sudden in 1990? i mean, he wasn’t exactly getting laid on the regular (he claims to have had sex a total of 50-75 times in his life), but we know he’d had at least 2 partners by the time he was 29. You’d assume he’d get at least one more along the way. What happened?

    Like


  26. Seeking Alpha,

    SWPLers may have many faults, but pushing for “tougher” laws, “tougher” prisons, mandatory sentences, military style police responses, cruelty, torture, lack of due legal process is the domain of bible thumpers.

    Bible thumpers seem to forget the part about “do unto others as you would want to be done to you”.

    Like


  27. on August 6, 2009 at 2:51 pm The Fifth Horseman

    Ross Jeffries NLP :

    It DOES work very well, but should ONLY be used in the Seduction phase (S1, S2, S3) of Mystery Method.

    That is why RJ and Mystery were always so hostile to one another. Neither understood what the other was doing (or could admit that they were actually complimentary to each other in a way), and that it was an apples to oranges comparison.

    Mystery Method is the best start-to-finish approach. But the Seduction phase of MM can be greatly enhanced with RJ’s NLP.

    MM is breadth. RJ’s Speed Seduction is depth, albeit in just the final stages of MM.

    RJ’s failure was his inability to create a start-to-finish system. His material is only useful after you already have her alone, and have built comfort and rapport earlier.

    In closing :

    MM is Attraction (A1, A2, A3), Comfort (C1, C3, C3), and Seduction (S1, S3, S3). Ross Jeffries’ NLP material can greatly enhance the final S1, S2, S3 stage (but ONLY that stage).

    Like


  28. Chuck,

    Maybe he just could not handle repeated disillusionment. The man might have been a geek but he was not stupid or poor.

    Like


  29. on August 6, 2009 at 2:54 pm Seeking Alpha

    Lucy,

    Feminists push those kind of sexual repression laws, not bible thumpers.

    military style police response

    What does that even mean? You put very little thought into what you write here.

    Like


  30. on August 6, 2009 at 2:55 pm The Fifth Horseman

    Hope,

    I fear that my ex-husband is becoming like Sodini. Any advice? I can’t even help him directly because he is so angry and bitter.

    Buy three books for him : The Mystery Method, The Game (by Neil Strauss), and Emotional Intelligence (by Daniel Goleman). Have Amazon ship them to his house if you don’t want to interact with him directly.

    The $60 or whatever you spend on those could save your life down the line.

    Also, point him to this blog and tell him to read everything.

    Like


  31. Seeking Alpha,

    Please look at the raw statistical data, state by state.

    Every one of those attitudes and their effects are seen to a far larger degree in conservative minded states than liberal minded states. Liberals have their faults, but religious conservatives are much worser.

    Like


  32. It’s clear that Loserfer knows nothing he talks about. “Bible Thumpers,” at least the kind that have any pull whatsoever in politics, are thoroughly Leftist except for abotion and school prayer.

    He is one of the more disappointing trolls here. No bite, no originality, no oomph. Just mediocre high school kid rants.

    Like


  33. on August 6, 2009 at 3:03 pm The Fifth Horseman

    Hope,

    Here is another suggestion that will save your life :

    Your ex-husband : How much money did you get from him via the courts? How much does he still have to pay you?

    You *could* consider being a moral human and not take any further money from him from this point on. You could say “Even though the court says I can get this, I don’t think I need any more from you.”

    Can you do this? If so, both you and him will sleep easier from now on.

    If you cannot give up the money you are getting from him, then don’t be surprised if he snaps one day.

    Like


  34. on August 6, 2009 at 3:04 pm Sodini's Inconsistency

    Hi;

    y’all seem to be assuming Sodini had sex with the mother of his child. How do you know his child’s mother was not a feminist, who made him ejaculate in a cup?

    That would make the writing self consistent.

    Like


  35. on August 6, 2009 at 3:04 pm Seeking Alpha

    Lucy,

    Please look at the raw statistical data, state by state.

    Have you? Or are you just guessing? If you’re trying to make a point, don’t try and pawn off your evidence gathering on me.

    I don’t even know why I’m responding to someone with no capacity for critical reasoning.

    Bible thumpers seem to forget the part about “do unto others as you would want to be done to you”.

    Nonsense. Being tough on law breakers isn’t hypocritical if you expect the same punishment for all law breakers.

    pushing for “tougher” laws, “tougher” prisons, mandatory sentences, military style police responses, cruelty, torture, lack of due legal process is the domain of bible thumpers.

    The biggest proponents of tough-on-crime are secular, big city Republicans like Giuliani. There is very little crime in bible thumping counties for them to be tough on in the first place.

    Liberals have their faults, but religious conservatives are much worser.

    An unsupported, vague contention with a dash of bad grammar to top it off.

    Please keep your pet topics away from us. No one cares.

    Like


  36. The Fifth Horseman, directing him to this blog would not work. He knew I read it. He knows about the PUA community, and he hates pick-up. He hates women. He hates a LOT of things. The government. The cops. Anything related to order and organization. He even hates the world and writes on reddit that he wants to see the world end.

    He needs real help. He is so thoroughly convinced of his rightness and tried to convert me to that world view. For a while it sort of worked, but it was painful to live with. I can assure you that the books he would just toss aside as garbage or spit on them and burn them if he suspected they were from me.

    Like


  37. Hope,

    You are now at least the 3rd woman who has posted here asking that question.

    The solution is right between your legs.

    Give him some, and/or help him get some from one of your friends.

    If you are not willing to do that, then you are not REALLY willing to help him.

    Like


  38. on August 6, 2009 at 3:08 pm The Fifth Horseman

    Hope,

    He knows about the PUA community, and he hates pick-up.

    Why does he ‘hate pick-up’? That is weird. Does he not see any value to learning it?

    The only other advice I can give you is to keep a gun in your home, and practice shooting it at the shooting range.

    Like


  39. on August 6, 2009 at 3:09 pm Rollo Tomassi

    Expect a violent firestorm from the feministing blogs to scream misogynistic bloody murder about the PUA community after this revelation. In fact they already are, and naming Roissy in particular here:

    http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/08/05/more-on-the-misogynist-shooting-in-pennsylvania/

    I understand that appeals to nebulous ‘misogyny’ are going to always be the default bugbear for militant feminism, but skim over their perspectives:

    http://www.feministing.com/archives/017110.html

    http://jezebel.com/5330560/gunman-murders-gym+going-women-misogynists-approve

    This is just the groundswell, I expect next week’s View, Oprah and Dr. Phil show’s rosters is already filled with ‘experts’ ready to vilify and ridicule ‘evil’ men.

    Like


  40. Despite attracting trolls, this place does have the best commenters of any blog I’ve read, including places like Steve Sailer etc.

    Particular favourites include:
    PA
    Obsidian
    Vladimir
    Doug
    T. (Ricky Raw)
    Patrick H.
    Agnostic
    Clio
    Hope
    omw

    Hell, even some of the crazed rants, like those of Whiskey, are at the very least interesting.

    Like


  41. this was linked to (sort of) through Half Sigma.

    it was last updated in 2000 when Sodini was 38-39.

    it’s interesting to note that he didn’t have the stink of desperation and self-pity about his station in life.

    he makes several references such as “Single Bliss” and that he hopes he won’t have children. it’s like he tried to reconcile his celibacy and lack of dates with aloofness and “living the good life” good feeling.

    it’s interesting to see his coping mechanism change during that time. regardless, this situation provides an interesting case study in male/female dynamics. sad it had to come about because of 5 women’s deaths.

    http://home.comcast.net/~space777/crazyg/crazygeorge/crazygeorge.htm

    Like


  42. Hope, I was surprised when you came back to commenting here afer several months’ absence and let us know that you and your husband have divorced. Some of your earlier comments about the metaphysics of love is some of the most eloquent writing ever.

    Not sure what your ex’s behavior is. I fit is about having you back, the one advice I can give is to NEVER give him the slightest glimmer of hope that you can be back together. Ever. Not even to be nice. He will latch on to any ambiguous gsture from your end and hold on to it like it’s a promice.

    If he wants you back but you are through with him, you have to kill his hope that any part of what you once had is still alive.

    I once broke up with a girl who took it real hard and stalked me for a while. I had to spell it out to her:

    “You and I are dead. I don’t think about the times we had… I hardly even remember them. I don’t find you phisically attractive and there is no hope whatsoever that we will ever be together. And I am dating a very good looking girl right now.”

    I didn’t even say something like “I wish you well.” Her desperate brain would have registerd it as “he still cares about me.”

    Truth is I did wish her well and I did think of some of our times fondly, but I had no desire whatsoever to get back with her. Minding your safety (I don’t know your ex-husband or his problem) you need to be cruel to be kind.

    Or maybe you can secretly send a girlfriend of yours or a professional to sleep with him, to help him get over you.

    Like


  43. A.J. Travis, I moved several states away from him. He had a girlfriend after I moved out, so I don’t think it’s getting laid that is his problem. I’m not sure what happened to that girl though… maybe she realized how much anger he had inside him, too.

    Your ex-husband : How much money did you get from him via the courts? How much does he still have to pay you?

    Zero. Nada. No alimony, no children.

    He went into the marriage with zero in savings, did most of the spending, while I spent little to nothing and had always been frugal. My mom gave me 15 grand before I got married to get me started. I went out of the marriage with about the same amount as I went into it, while he came out of it 15 grand richer. He didn’t have to pay alimony nor any of the divorce proceeding fees.

    It is not a material or physical pain, but a spiritual pain — that I honestly feel he has inflicted on himself. He is in a dark place that is so chaotic and steeped in hatred and anger that nothing I do or say will change his KNOWLEDGE that I’m a dirty, horrible whore and slut who ruined his life forever, and that no woman or man (he has huge baggage about men, too) on earth is worth his trust or love.

    Like


  44. on August 6, 2009 at 3:17 pm Tupac Chopra

    smoothvirus:

    Mehow’s stuff is the bomb.

    Mehow is a flaming faggot.

    Mehow epitomizes a certain snake-oil aspect of the seduction community: he advertises to nerds and losers who have ZERO experience with women, and raises their hopes by performing like a homo in clubs where he represents no sexual threat whatsoever to the women. All chicks LOVE to banter with “delightfully pleasant” metro-gay men. It’s like talking with one of the girls!

    This act is quite effective at getting women talking to him, and giving up phone numbers, but I highly doubt his method translates into gina tingles.

    All the nerds and losers look on in awe, drawing the unwarranted conclusion that “women conversing with me and giving me their email addy = sexual attraction”

    Given their desperation, I can’t say I blame them.

    But it’s largely a mirage.

    Like


  45. Hope,

    Then forget him.

    He will die someday. Make sure he does not take you or those you love with him.

    There are plenty of unstable people walking the streets of every city in the world.

    The police cannot protect individual citizens from anything.

    So protect yourself.

    Like


  46. PA, thank you for the advice. I have not given him any indication that we could get back together, nor have I been in contact him for several months. He knows I moved away, too, and that I have a new boyfriend.

    He is not moving on in the right way. I would be fine to act as the villain here if he would be happy with another woman. He refuses to do that. He deliberately sabotages the possibilities he has because he latches onto the pain.

    A.J. Travis, I can’t properly move on because I feel partly responsible for his pain. I do not want the weight on my conscience that I have ruined someone’s life. I thought I had helped him by showing him that I cared, but I guess that help only hurt him more. Sometimes there is just no win in a situation, I guess.

    Like


  47. Pardon me, but what is the seduction community? Exactly?

    Like


  48. Hope. Here is some advice. Short but sweet. Move on. My first husband was exactly like yours. Don’t torture your little mind with it. It only indicates that you two were a perfect match.

    Like


  49. The seduction community is a loose-knit subculture of men who strive for better sexual and romantic success with women through self-improvement and a greater understanding of social psychology.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seduction_community

    Like


  50. Hope,

    Other folks have offered good advice for dealing with him here.

    On the spiritual side, pray for him, meditate, whatever works for your particular belief system. That is truly all you can do at this juncture. Ideally that will help you be at peace with yourself, which you need to be.

    Since you say no alimony or child support, you don’t sound on the surface like the typical harpy often discussed here. Let the dude go.

    Like


  51. I have been to a number of R. Don Steele events and was on his list for a long time. He does not teach game. His system is really limited for a specific group of men who want a specific thing- middle aged men who are competent at dating middle aged women but who want to date women 20 years or more younger.

    Many guys who do not fit this profile- guys who like Sodini aren’t competent at dating women period, go to his events and I think benefit but I don’t think he likes teaching them.

    His teaching is mainly about clothing, physical conditioning, basic dating and conversational skills. He also does a lot of psychological stuff.

    I know of one guy from these events who really went from zero to hero- really disfunctional to decent with women. I met other guys who had psychological problems too serious to make any progress. Steele goes by the Nathaniel Branden school of objectivist psychology which is not useful to people with real problems.

    Like


  52. Hope

    I fear that my ex-husband is becoming like Sodini. Any advice? I can’t even help him directly because he is so angry and bitter.

    Buy a bulletproof vest.

    But seriously, why not try apologizing for what you did to him?

    Tell him, sincerely, that you are sorry about hurting him, it was wrong to leave him for another man, and you did something you are ashamed of. Make sure to ask for his forgiveness, and you will probably get it eventually. Don’t make any excuses, unless you want to drag it out.

    That’s all you can do, and yet it’s the least you can do for a man you married and then left. If he forgives you for breaking your vows, he will be doing far more for you than you could ever do for him in this lifetime.

    Like


  53. fyi, this is my response to the womyn at feministe after they picked on roissy, lets see if they have a big enough clit to post it…

    “your attack on roissy betrays your lack of honesty with your readers, and even more troubling, with yourself. Keep reading it you may learn something.

    You must fall into the category of the woman who is (a) very unattractive, except to herbs (or omegas?) that you can dominate and push around, and your anger at the unpretty truths behind why the guy(s) you’ve liked have not been interested, or worse, (b) gave you the ole pump and dump before you felt emancipated by seeing the movie “he’s just not that into you.” Pretty lies played a role in this tragedy, make no mistake.

    Don’t let your frigid cat hugging fears blind you to a logical analysis whcih is the first step to a societal solution. Lefty lib “womyn” like you are the cause of so many of the problems in our society, and you don’t even want to hear it! So those who actually analyze reality logically will continue to reap the pussy rewards from the real system that silly self delusional women like yourself pretend does not exist.

    bottom line, the attacker may have been unbalanced, but the self-serving propogation of pretty prevarications certainly had a role in pushing him over the edge. take the first step to recovery and admit it.

    …shouldn’t you be out on a ledge somewhere?”

    Like


  54. The Fifth Horseman,

    You are suggesting that a woman should be ethical and reasonable.. seriously.

    Like


  55. Seeking Alpha,

    Have a look at the data from government sites.. it is a bit spread out.

    But I learned some funny facts like over 5% of the population of 2 southern states is under some form of judicial supervision.. 5%!

    Like


  56. Hope,

    I do not know about the specifics of your situation.. but best of luck. You are gonna need it.

    Like


  57. ””””’Hope
    I fear that my ex-husband is becoming like Sodini. Any advice? I can’t even help him directly because he is so angry and bitter.”””””

    That shit ain’t gonna fly here hope. Again you give me little hope. Your cry for attention is not warrented. Didn’t you basically leave him because you thought he lied about killing someone. Isn’t that why you originally loved him because you thought he was a tough guy. Then you left him because you thought he wasn’t. I guess you where wrong in leaving if he offs you lol

    Now that you are afraid he could kill you. Maybe you could get back with him since he is now the man you married him for.

    Like


  58. Seeking Alpha,

    Banksters and MBAs have destroyed the foundations and structures of your civilization in the last 30 years. They have destroyed people’s savings, livelihoods, retirements and healthcare.

    and YOU want to catch and punish guys who steal 50$ from a cashier? Do you have any perspective?

    Like


  59. Oh yea hope no matter what man you get with none of them are gonna be me. Get me out of your head 🙂

    I am one in a trillion.

    Like


  60. Roissy and that Sodini guy aren’t that different from each other. They both hate women. And while one actually killed women physically, the other is committed to killing women emotionally and spiritually.

    [editor: i don’t *feel* hateful. gimme something to cum on!]

    Like


  61. Lucifer,

    You are an idiot.

    Like


  62. ””””””’flip ant
    Hope. Here is some advice. Short but sweet. Move on. My first husband was exactly like yours. Don’t torture your little mind with it. It only indicates that you two were a perfect match.””””””””””’

    Flip ant very on point. You agree with me. She married him because he said he was a killer. So yea probably a good match now.

    Like


  63. Quinn,

    Women can be spiritual.. who knew!

    Like


  64. Gunslingergregi,

    Why are women not willing to keep what they chose and bought?

    Like


  65. Lucifer,

    The jew is we.

    Like


  66. [editor: i have my doubts about the effectiveness of NLP. though supposedly ross jeffries is good in the field.]

    If nothing else it’s a fun mental habit to create on the fly associations that are the ultimate in-joke. You are the only person who gets the joke.

    But I’m surprised that the subject of hypnotic suggestions is not discussed more on this blog. I suppose you call it “setting the frame”. Telling a person how they feel, in subtle ways, works.

    And language is great at drawing parallels. On the surface you are talking about bananas and cream filling, and the subtext is about sex. What else is NLP other than all the fancy tricks of writing? Alliteration and metaphor, mood and theme, all for the ultimate purpose of persuasion.

    Like


  67. Quinn,

    All religious groups and ethnicities are well represented in banksters and mbas. So no.. it is a problem that transcends religion or color.

    Like


  68. Why the hell do you plan everything on banksters and MBAs? Wouldn’t it make more sense to blame politicians and liberal PhDs?

    Like


  69. on August 6, 2009 at 5:41 pm Seeking Alpha

    tenkev

    He’s just a high school student with lots of words and no brains behind it. We just need to ignore him until he goes away like TJF did.

    Like


  70. tenkev,

    Who pays the politicians and academics? Who runs corporations? Who runs it?

    Learn to look behind the curtain.. Having said that a hank paulson (christian)or a vikram pandit (indian) is as much to blame as a blankfein.

    Like


  71. Seeking Alpha,

    The difference between me and you is that you are a believer (in something), while I believe in nothing (cynic).

    I have far fewer mental filters than you.

    Like


  72. plan = blame

    Like


  73. Cum…Gun…they kinda rhyme.

    [editor: too bad you missed the pop culture ref and the opportunity to jive with your lord and master.]

    The fact remains – those that are attracted to the “game” ultimately seek to mute/eradicate women.

    [only if eradication is a euphemism for penetration. mmm, eradicating that pussy…]

    I’m surprised that Roissy doesn’t vomit after he spends time in bed with all of his subjects. He writes as if women disgust him literally. Just like the Sodini guy. Hmmmmmm….

    [another retard with poor reading comprehension skills heard from.]

    Like


  74. quinn

    George Sordini is smiling in the morgue now that he knows that 30 million pussies are wet for him

    Like


  75. gig,

    have to agree with you on the 30 million wet pussy comment.

    Like


  76. Don’t be ridiculous. Sodini’s act was an act of desperation. Desperation does not wet pussies. Control does.

    Like


  77. tenkev,

    you think too highly of their analytical abilities.

    Like


  78. Enough about George already.

    Like


  79. on August 6, 2009 at 5:56 pm Comment_Whatever

    Hope said:

    I fear that my ex-husband is becoming like Sodini. Any advice? I can’t even help him directly because he is so angry and bitter.

    Welmer:

    Buy a bulletproof vest.

    But seriously, why not try apologizing for what you did to him?

    Tell him, sincerely, that you are sorry about hurting him, it was wrong to leave him for another man, and you did something you are ashamed of. Make sure to ask for his forgiveness, and you will probably get it eventually. Don’t make any excuses, unless you want to drag it out.

    That’s all you can do, and yet it’s the least you can do for a man you married and then left. If he forgives you for breaking your vows, he will be doing far more for you than you could ever do for him in this lifetime.

    Hope did NOTHING to her ex-husband. She was VERY YOUNG when she married, and VERY inexperienced. She bonded to him tightly and gave him her most attractive years and he was cruel to her in return.

    They had no children, so child support isn’t an issue.

    Welmer, MOST women who divorce hurt their husbands more than they are hurt. That’s what the courts and divorce laws are designed to do. It doesn’t mean that it is IMPOSSIBLE for the woman to be hurt more. Simply unlikely.

    Well, unlikely happened. Hope is one of those chicks who talks about how tough she is and then runs around saving puppies.

    Also, the really lousy economy is probably responsible for her ex-husband going off the rails more than anything else. He is just misdirecting his anger….. which I gather is pretty typical of him.

    And Hope, the years you spent married to him trying to change him are all that could be expected. You ability to influence him has also decreased a lot since you are not married anymore. It would be almost impossible for you to successfully change him now with your much lowered influence. Giving it up as a bad job is a reasonable, fair thing to do.

    His only real hope is major environmental change. A majority of his views are no doubt a result of him living in America…. for a variety of reasons. Did you know that America has the highest percentage of people in prison in the entire world? Free-Dum. Your only real option, Hope, is to try to get him to change his country. Even if America weren’t such a lousy place for young white males, the change of environment alone could shake him out of his bad state-of-mind.

    So Hope, if you want to help him, use his hatred. Be hyperbolic and exaggerate. Tell him America hates him so why is he letting America take advantage of him every day? Cause every day he lives in America is another day of his life America has taken from him. Is he to scared to move? Not so tough, eh. Oh he is tough, then why doesn’t he prove it?

    If he wants to learn a language, then Spanish is relentlessly pronounced as it is written, and has a limited set of vowels. A Pimsleur audio course, Lessons 1-30 would be where he should start.

    Hope, I’m sorry he misdirected his anger at you, then and now. It was and is weak of him to do so.

    Like


  80. Lucifer

    You are suggesting that a woman should be ethical and reasonable.. seriously.

    They are by their own standards…or not as the case may be. Just about everyone justifies/rationalizes whatever the hell they do one way or another.

    Like


  81. One has to look at these sorts of seminars and such with an appropriate dose of common sense.

    A 48 year old guy in a 19 year dry spell isn’t going to suddenly run out an start bagging 25 year old 10s no matter what lessons he takes.

    Given his own status – let’s just say he could clean up to a 5 – he could resaonably expect to start bagging 40 years old 5s. In a few years, maybe he works his way into bagging 6s that are within 10 years of his age.

    Like


  82. ””””””’on August 6, 2009 at 5:30 pm Lucifer
    Gunslingergregi,

    Why are women not willing to keep what they chose and bought?””””””””

    It is actually guys who need to start being picky. I guess that is the point of the exercise. Create friction between men and woman. If a wife would listen to her man and he said we are gonna save your paycheck then they become rich. Too easy. Got to have friction to keep people slaving on and slaving on.

    Like


  83. Lucifer

    I actually made the comment just to horrify Quinn. I don´t believe that all his 30-million pussies are wet now, but that there are more pussies wet for him now than in any other time in his life, that´s sure

    Given his lifestory, there no pussies rated 7 and above wet for him know. But inthe 3 and below range, I bet there are many women dreaming about saving him from his fate if onlyn they had met before as we speak

    Like


  84. Comment how long have you been reading hopes posts?

    Like


  85. People who post here haven’t heard of the ‘seduction community’? Really?

    Like


  86. ”””””””km
    One has to look at these sorts of seminars and such with an appropriate dose of common sense.

    A 48 year old guy in a 19 year dry spell isn’t going to suddenly run out an start bagging 25 year old 10s no matter what lessons he takes.

    Given his own status – let’s just say he could clean up to a 5 – he could resaonably expect to start bagging 40 years old 5s. In a few years, maybe he works his way into bagging 6s that are within 10 years of his age.””””””’

    Shit he could have had 25 tens just ran around handing out 10k stacks he was dumb in that regard. Let me tell you why he didn’t do that though. Because he was still trying to live a moral life up until the end. He was not supposed to swear drink hate people take revenge steal rob pay for sex becasue those are all bad things. He didn’t do the minor bad things so that when he went to talk to god he could explain he led a
    “good” life up until the point where he committed the murders.

    Like


  87. ””””””tenkev
    Don’t be ridiculous. Sodini’s act was an act of desperation. Desperation does not wet pussies. Control does.”””””””

    It was a planned controlled act to leave the planet which he succeeded in.

    Like


  88. He writes as if women disgust him huliterally.

    [another retard with poor reading comprehension skills heard from.]

    heh, whether because of tone or pretty lies or whatever, I have to work to decide if you’re disgusted by women’s “innate” nature or if I’m just bothered by how you see/describe it and assign disgust to you. Or a combination.

    [editor: probably the latter, since i’d find it hard to love so much that which would disgust me.]

    But we all know you like the physically pretty ones.

    [true. fat women do disgust me. but then our intrepid trollbot didn’t qualify his lamebrained smear with that pertinent detail.]

    (true for many of the posters here)

    Like


  89. Hope, here’s my advice:

    Be armed. Make it clear that you are armed and willing to use lethal force to defend yourself. Make sure your boyfriend and everyone in your family or social circle you can get on board is also armed and ready.

    That usually solves the problem of someone who’s trying to intimidate you.

    If he threatens you, do not wait for him to do something. Blasting someone’s knee caps off will get you some prison time, but you will be alive.

    Like


  90. That is not true Lucifer (wrt Religious people). In fact, it’s often the Christian folk who argue for lower sentences, and “redemption” and so on. You should not comment on things you don’t know anything about, Christianity being one of them. For example, “Megan’s Law” and those like it were passed by mostly non-Church going parents who were fed up with Molesters passing through family neighborhoods without parents being warned. [Megan Kanka, aged 9 IIRC, was lured into a neighbor’s garage, molested and murdered, on the pretext of looking for a lost puppy. The neighbor was a sex offender not required by law to register.] Parents have ‘skin in the game’ of life and don’t like predators — the nicest soccer Mom would happily fry every low life criminal, including those she banged years ago, as a threat to her little girl or boy.

    One of the biggest beefs social cons have against folks like Huckabee is that their record as Evangelical Christians stands in favor of reduced penalties and “rehabilitation” instead of lock-em-up which is what middle class parents and the elderly, collectively the most vulnerable, desire. You’ll never have change in statutory rape laws, because soccer Moms don’t want older guys around their daughters. Duh.

    Thursday — I am never crazed.
    —————————-
    CAN Game provide useful marginal improvements in most men’s lives? I remain skeptical about it’s usefulness for most men.

    Suppose most men make a marginal improvement. A guy in the same market-space as Soldini, older, beta job, beta attitude, often supplicating, not much track record of success with women. He goes to a seminar, reads Mystery Method, Game, etc. He makes marginal improvements, more in shape, better dresser, more aggressive in approach, more DHV, that sort of thing.

    Now imagine most other guys in his same market-space do the same thing. Result, women simply move upwards. If “enough” guys who are beta try to move upwards through Game, it merely raises the bar for that level. It’s supply and demand. If women have a demand curve of a certain “Alpha-ness” and the supply suddenly increases on the lower part of their preference curve (i.e. that’s the “floor” for which they will entertain offers) then they’ll simply move upwards. This is how most markets work and I think it’s pushing it to assume that the sexual marketplace will be different for a sudden influx of supply at the lower levels.

    In every other market, increases in supply lead to lower prices.

    Certainly, “limited to a few” Game knowledge can help those men, of all levels of ability, make marginal improvements. Some will make lesser, other greater improvements. But to help MOST men of beta type, the only way to change things is on the demand curve of women (buyers) not the supply side of the equation. By lowering the “floor” at which women will entertain offers.

    Like


  91. on August 6, 2009 at 6:20 pm HUNGRY HUNGRY HIPPOS YO

    “Expect a violent firestorm from the feministing blogs to scream misogynistic bloody murder about the PUA community after this revelation. In fact they already are, and naming Roissy in particular here:

    http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/08/05/more-on-the-misogynist-shooting-in-pennsylvania/

    I understand that appeals to nebulous ‘misogyny’ are going to always be the default bugbear for militant feminism, but skim over their perspectives:

    http://www.feministing.com/archives/017110.html

    http://jezebel.com/5330560/gunman-murders-gym+going-women-misogynists-approve

    This is just the groundswell, I expect next week’s View, Oprah and Dr. Phil show’s rosters is already filled with ‘experts’ ready to vilify and ridicule ‘evil’ men.”

    I read these, pure gold. I could not stop laughing. They’ll go to any extent to avoid blame. Somehow, this shooting and George’s problems with women are a result of cultural misogyny and patriarchy, not a 20 year celibacy. I wish that F. Roger Devlin was mandatory reading for anyone who wants to post on the internet about men and women.

    Like


  92. lets see

    Shit-test the physical appearance of a man is usually the mark of the highly hipergamous women.

    Like


  93. The backlash against the seduction community from this shooting will be a good thing in my opinion. It’ll go back to the old days of an underground community. It’s been infested with too many douchebags and commercialized bullshit. It’s become ruined by popularity, much like mixed martial arts has been (don’t get me started on TUF noobs).

    Back in the day there was some really soul-searching, and reflective posting on the PUA mailing lists. There was also a spirit of sharing with their fellow men, and not forcing them to pay thousands of dollars for something they can learn for free.

    These days you go to any of the main PUA boards, and it is filled with numbskulls and snake oil salesmen. More so than it was in the past. Everyone is a played-out, goggle-wearing Mystery these days.

    Like


  94. Gunslingergregi, do you really think I married him because I thought he killed someone? Why did I choose a guy this time around who is a complete do-gooder, who went to Peace Corps and worked at a non-profit? Why do I prefer the guy who is positive, wholesome and who does not fight with me to a guy who is negative, bitter and who fought with me all the time?

    Now, I know without a doubt that what I did — moving out and telling my ex that things “might” still work out — was a bad move. But I felt so guilty about leaving in the first place. The guy I am with now had nothing to do with that part of my past; when I moved out I did not even really know this guy. Nonetheless my ex is trying to take it out on him, wishing death and destruction on him in a public forum.

    She was VERY YOUNG when she married, and VERY inexperienced.

    Yes, I was very young when I met him, but when I decided to marry him I was 22, legally an adult in every way, and I thought I was mature — though looking back now I really was not. That part of it was my own responsibility. I married him because he seemed so devoted, and I could not leave him. Every time I tried, he would stop eating, threaten to kill himself, and I felt so terrible. I thought I was doing the best thing under the circumstances.

    Tell him, sincerely, that you are sorry about hurting him, it was wrong to leave him for another man, and you did something you are ashamed of.

    I have told him that I was sorry, over and over again. I could tell him again. Do you think that is the best thing? I was told that contacting him would just bring him more pain, which is why I do not do it. All the hate emails he sends me and the hatred he writes about me in public do not anger me, but they sadden me. I do not want to cause pain. I thought I could take away his pain with love, but I was wrong.

    Like


  95. Comment_Whatever

    Hope did NOTHING to her ex-husband. She was VERY YOUNG when she married, and VERY inexperienced. She bonded to him tightly and gave him her most attractive years and he was cruel to her in return.

    Do you know these people personally? Did her ex not give her his most attractive years?

    Look, all I know is what Hope has written, and what she says about her ex means little. It is what she says about herself that I believe. She said she left him, ergo SHE BROKE HER VOWS.

    That’s what she did to her ex-husband, and that’s a whopper. This is why divorced women should be avoided — most of them stood up at the altar and lied in front of everyone.

    Since you brought up Hope’s youth as an excuse, let me ask you a question:

    If 18-year-old boys are old enough to sign up for combat and potential death, and are subject to very serious consequences if they break their oath, why are women excused — nay, rewarded — for breaking their wedding vows?

    Should soldiers, on the verge of combat, be allowed to say, “no, this isn’t what I wanted,” then be given a plane ride home and a monthly check?

    Hope, I’m sorry he misdirected his anger at you, then and now. It was and is weak of him to do so.

    No, it is not weak or misdirected. She is the proper target of his righteous anger.

    Hope should get on her knees and beg for forgiveness.

    Like


  96. This guy couldn’t relate to anyone. He needed a lot more than game could ever provide.

    Like


  97. try to get him to change his country. Even if America weren’t such a lousy place for young white males, the change of environment alone could shake him out of his bad state-of-mind.

    Here’s the thing. He’s talked about that constantly, moving to Canada, moving out of America, etc. etc. But I very much doubt that he will actually do it because he hates paperwork, and he refuses to even get a passport, nevermind immigration papers.

    Be armed. Make it clear that you are armed and willing to use lethal force to defend yourself.

    I am not so much afraid that he will hurt me as he will hurt himself. I am worried that he will kill himself, and that is why I want to help. I have been told that it would not be my fault if he does kill himself, but that does not change the fact that it is not something I want! I would love for him to be happy, to lead a good life, because I do still care. But it is that caring which he exploited for so long to keep me entrapped with him. You see the catch-22?

    Like


  98. Hope

    I have told him that I was sorry, over and over again. I could tell him again. Do you think that is the best thing? I was told that contacting him would just bring him more pain, which is why I do not do it. All the hate emails he sends me and the hatred he writes about me in public do not anger me, but they sadden me. I do not want to cause pain. I thought I could take away his pain with love, but I was wrong.

    That’s all you can do, but it’s not enough, and that’s why you need to ask for forgiveness.

    If he forgives you, all is better for both of you, because then he’s essentially given you his word that he will move on. But before you try to convince him to take that step, you ought to start by unilaterally taking your problems with him offline, and telling him you’d appreciate it if he did the same.

    Like


  99. Hope, it takes two people to have a bad relationship. You should apologize for your part in creating that situation, whether he really deserves it or not. This isn’t about what he deserves. It’s about your cleaning up your side of the mess regardless of what he does.

    …and let go of his life. If he feels like he can’t continue, then let him go. It’s his right.

    Like


  100. whiskey:

    “Result, women simply move upwards.”

    i generally agree with your points. i believe that each society, depending on its laws, rules, norms, mores, and traditions has a pretty constant rate of male/female celibacy and/or distribution of sex partners for men (i.e. 10% of the male population will be george sodini, 1% will be roissy etc.)

    Game and any other attempt at shaking this thing up merely reallocates the people who occupy spots along the hierarchy. Either way, there will always be some disenchanted men, in roughly the same proportions, in any given culture/society. the only thing that can change now is what these men focus on or our accepted beliefs about what people are and are not entitled to.

    i’ll say it again, this act of violence stems from Sodini’s belief that he was *entitled to* or *deserved* a woman. nobody deserves anything in this life.

    Like


  101. Hope, you should also ask yourself why you don’t want him to kill himself. Is it really because you care for him and want him to be happy? or is it because you would feel guilty about someone killing themselves because they love you and can’t be with you?

    If it’s guilt, then let go of that guilt. It takes more than a woman to make a man happy anyway. If he goes, then it’s because he feels there’s nothing for him in this world. Your being together for a time may have provided some distraction, but ultimately he may feel that he wasn’t made for this world.

    Whether or not we feel their feelings are legitimate, we have to respect them. It’s not about being hard or callous, but respectful of a person’s right over their own life.

    Like


  102. ””””””Hope,
    when I moved out I did not even really know this guy. ”””””””””””””

    This may be why you feel guilty. You didn’t move out on your own and then look for a man. You found a man you wanted and then moved out. So you weren’t being a strong woman. You where just being a run of the mill woman who took advantage of a somewhat stable platform to find a guy with. You are not the special snowflake you thought you were. You do not bring hope. Understand now?

    ””””””Welmer,
    Look, all I know is what Hope has written, and what she says about her ex means little. It is what she says about herself that I believe. She said she left him, ergo SHE BROKE HER VOWS. ”””””’

    This is the conflicted. She was thinking about the other guy before she left. Of course woman should be able to get divorced if they want. They should leave first though and not partake of any benefits while looking for the next guy.

    ”””””’Hope,
    I have told him that I was sorry, over and over again. I could tell him again. Do you think that is the best thing? I was told that contacting him would just bring him more pain, which is why I do not do it. All the hate emails he sends me and the hatred he writes about me in public do not anger me, but they sadden me. I do not want to cause pain. I thought I could take away his pain with love, but I was wrong.”””””’

    Well yea you feel like you failed and it is because you did. Just move on then if you want since you already did cannot go back again at this point. This failure will stay with you forever. Life can be cruel. Especially when it is you that let down you.

    Like


  103. ”””””””””””””””””Ghost of Nicole
    Hope, here’s my advice:

    Be armed. Make it clear that you are armed and willing to use lethal force to defend yourself. Make sure your boyfriend and everyone in your family or social circle you can get on board is also armed and ready.

    That usually solves the problem of someone who’s trying to intimidate you.

    If he threatens you, do not wait for him to do something. Blasting someone’s knee caps off will get you some prison time, but you will be alive.””””””””””””””’

    Nicole that has to be the stupidest advice I have ever fucking heard in my entire life. If she tells him haha you can’t do it because I am armed it is a challenge for him to kill her. Anyway she said that she really doesn’t fear for her life she fears he will kill himself. Hope let him kill himself he will be happier.

    Like


  104. Welmer, I’ll try what you’ve suggested. Thanks.

    Gunslingergregi, you’re still not reading. I did not leave my ex for the man I am with now. I started talking to the man I am with now months after I moved out.

    Like


  105. Chuck, I disagree that any society will have a large amount of involuntary celibate men. In fact this was not the case for Western society around 1000 AD to about 1980 or so.

    Look at my site (and check the data yourself) from the GSS, it like every other measure shows increasing OVER TIME (thus not a “stable number of celibate men”) guys who are never married, White, aged 35-40. From around 2% to 25% of that demographic slice.

    Societies that indulge in a lot of unmarried, celibate men are unstable. Examples include Saudi Arabia (nearly one third of all marriages there polygamous), Yemen, UAE, Oman, China (now and historically), the Ottoman Sultanate, Czarist Russia, the Southern Philippines, and Weimar Germany. It creates young men who are radicalized, often have dangerous skills, and often turn to criminal endeavors of a political nature. The Huks and the M.I.L.F. (Moro Islamic Liberation Front) draw from those ranks and they were plenty dangerous. Bin Laden fishes from that pool for jihadis, as do others like Jemat Islamayah. Even loners like Tim McVeigh of hated memory have a sexual component.

    It’s basic resource judo. If you have a large pool of guys who are invested in society’s overthrow by ANYTHING that promises a better sexual deal, you have a ready made cadre that enemies inside and out can use against you. Why do you think the late Roman Republic AND the Empire tore itself apart with inter-necine struggles? What were they fighting about? Pompey and Crassus and Caesar and Augustus and Anthony? And more important, their followers? W-O-M-E-N.

    You can argue about the tipping point. But Western Civilization’s big advantage over others was stability — nothing seen of the massive revolts created by guys with no stake throwing their lots in with adventurers which has plagued civilization since man abandoned hunter-gather for agriculture.

    Like


  106. ””””””Hope,
    when I moved out I did not even really know this guy. ”””””””””””””

    Not even really know this guy.

    And I did not know this guy

    are two different things.

    Unless you mean I have any interaction with this guy.

    Like


  107. I didn’t have any interaction with this guy before breakup.

    Like


  108. I didn’t have any interaction with this guy before breakup.

    I exchanged one sentence with him over a video game, and I had no idea who he was. Didn’t even know it was him I had talked to until much later when he pointed it out to me. Yeah, that’s “interaction,” but he had nothing to do with my moving out.

    I moved out feeling and knowing that I would be single for a while, and being absolutely fine with it. That was the mentality that actually enabled me to move out. If I did not finally come to terms with the prospect of never meeting another guy who would love me, because I was a divorced has-been, then I would have stayed in that marriage.

    Like


  109. ””””’Hope,
    Didn’t even know it was him I had talked to until much later when he pointed it out to me. ””””””

    I’d like to believe you but this is a little shady. Hey as long as you believe it yourself that would be more honorable I would say if you had no prospects lined out.

    Like


  110. Actually now that I think about it, the day before I signed the lease (when I’d made up my mind to move out) was the day that I moved servers in the game. So I really didn’t know the guy. But it was an interesting coincidence that he was on the new server I moved to, and I was in the same guild as him for a few months before we even started talking.

    Like


  111. ”””Hope
    Gunslingergregi, you’re still not reading.””””””

    ”””””Hope
    Didn’t even know it was him I had talked to until much later when he pointed it out to me.””””””””’

    I was reading and am extremely good at seeing future as well. I only use my superpowers in certain situations though he he he

    Like


  112. am extremely good at seeing future as well

    I wish I had that power. Tell you another coincidence surrounding when I moved out.

    The day I made up my mind to leave, a girl came to the apartment with her boyfriend to hang out. I kept getting a weird feeling about it as they were chatting about drugs, vandalism, the military, etc., and it felt so surreal to be sitting there watching my then husband. The whole time I felt like everything was wrong. The day after, I signed the lease.

    Several months later, I found out that the girl was trying to get my ex to be interested in her, and I also found out that she was also trying to get this other married guy to be interested in her. Also she didn’t really like the guy she was with, but she liked to use him. I worked with this other married guy on some websites, so I was in contact with him, and he asked me if I knew her, because she also talked about me and the night that she went over to this guy’s house…

    When he told me that, I looked up the day that she came to the apartment, and cross-referenced it with the day that the new server came up and server transfers opened to it. Same exact day.

    Like


  113. Whiskey

    Succinct post. I find it amazing when people act surprised when men kill over some aspect of the mating game. What else have men ever killed for?
    And it has usually worked out pretty well for the killer going back about 500 million years.
    Sotini was obviously so damaged by so many things he makes a lousy example of anything simpltistic. But the core of his instincts were still alive: If I do not have a chance to get laid, then kill something.
    Smart cultures have found ways to channel and control this instinct. Usually, by telling men: Play by the rules and you will probably get lucky.
    Stupid cultures try to deny it or believe that it can be easily tamed by, for example, shaming words. “He should not feel entitled to pussy just because he is a male. Some one make him go away”.

    Like


  114. ””””””’Hope
    Actually now that I think about it, the day before I signed the lease (when I’d made up my mind to move out) was the day that I moved servers in the game. So I really didn’t know the guy. But it was an interesting coincidence that he was on the new server I moved to, and I was in the same guild as him for a few months before we even started talking.”””””””

    Yea ok you made the descision to sign the lease but then after that how long did you still stay in the house?

    Like


  115. Hope

    Welmer, I’ll try what you’ve suggested. Thanks.

    What I’m suggesting is far more realistic and humane than the bullshit you’re likely to hear, such as “if he blows his brains out because of this, it has nothing to do with you.”

    You married the man and took some vows. Because you broke them, the least you can do is make an effort to work things out for the best for both of you.

    And lest you think this is a pure judgment call, I’d look at it the same as having made a bad investment. If you make a bad investment, you have to pay the price to get out. It is fundamentally unjust to reward people for making bad investments. This means that, in order to get out of a bad marriage, you should have to eat some of the bitterness yourself.

    You’re Chinese, right? Maybe culturally you’re American (seems that way to me), but you should at least know that you have to give your ex an opportunity to save some face. Giving him the opportunity to forgive you is the most proper way to do so.

    But it may take some time for him to cool off. That’s why you have to stop posting this crap online (if he knows about it). No point in making divorce into a war — that’s for white trash hillbillies (most American women these days).

    Anyhow, follow my precepts, and your ex will get over it and come to feel benevolent toward you again.

    Like


  116. but then after that how long did you still stay in the house?

    After that, I stayed for another month to wait for the girl to move out because I was subleasing from her. During this time I did not meet any new guys or date or any of what you’re suggesting.

    This means that, in order to get out of a bad marriage, you should have to eat some of the bitterness yourself.

    Oh, believe me, I’ve already had plenty of it. I’ve paid a lot of fines, and I was willing to pay them to get out. I do not think he knows I’m posting this, but honestly I don’t think he cares about “saving face.” If he did, he wouldn’t have done half the things he did. He is certainly not someone in the Chinese tradition of things.

    I don’t care if he never feels benevolent towards me again. Whether or not I come out looking like the good person in this is irrelevant. I knew I was going to look shit-smeared when I asked for the divorce. I just don’t want him to be wallowing in this darkness and misery that he shrouds himself in. I do still care, which is why I don’t want him to do these things to himself. I know deep down there’s someone who’s capable of love, but he’s shut it off in favor of hatred.

    Do you know people who are just so full of anger and rage that they want to see the world burn? That’s what he’s always been like. What could have embittered me did not make me bitter, because I’m just not an angry person. I guess I’m turning to you guys to try to understand what it’s like to be so angry all the time… at women, at other people, at the world.

    Like


  117. Maybe you could just shoot him hope and do that act of love.

    Like


  118. Hope

    Actually now that I think about it, the day before I signed the lease (when I’d made up my mind to move out) was the day that I moved servers in the game. So I really didn’t know the guy. But it was an interesting coincidence that he was on the new server I moved to, and I was in the same guild as him for a few months before we even started talking.

    Oh, I just saw this one, and frankly I am not too surprised. But at least I’m amused!

    Don’t tell me you met the guy on a MMORPG.

    Warcraft?

    God that is so fucking lame. If you met your boyfriend on Warcraft, you suck, and that’s all I can say.

    I would love to meet a couple like this in person, so that I could have a good laugh at a couple of pathetic individuals.

    Oh, and you moved away, too? Did you move to be with your, what, warlock lover? Was he undead or something? Or was he a huge, muscular orc with a veiny penis?

    ROTFLMAO

    Like


  119. He is probably mad that he is on the planet and can’t leave because of religion and society that prevent people from leaving the planet until they just get to such a state that they finally get the courage to go against all of societies norms.

    Like


  120. ” I guess I’m turning to you guys to try to understand what it’s like to be so angry all the time… at women, at other people, at the world.” I think she just Negged us all.

    Like


  121. “scoring, or to give up all hope and masturbate your life away to the gloomy flicker of an LCD while your fat cow American wife thrashes you to within an inch of your pride.”

    Am I the only one that finds the “fat” American woman in that picture much more appealing?

    [editor: yes.]

    Like


  122. Funky K,

    that is precisely why my conversations with women are sarcastic.

    Like


  123. Hope

    I do not know you or your ex. All I can do is speculate on the basis of what I have learned from wider observations.
    The most bitterness inspiring thing that ever can happen to a man is for him to offer a woman his best version of loyalty and steadfastness and have her withdraw from him sexually and chose a different kind of man for steady fucking.
    IMHO, it is not realistic to hope he will get over that.

    Like


  124. Gunny says, “Nicole that has to be the stupidest advice I have ever fucking heard in my entire life. If she tells him haha you can’t do it because I am armed it is a challenge for him to kill her.”

    Guns are for shooting psychos, not for challenging them.

    See, here’s another example of that uncrossable mental divide between people like you and people like me.

    Like


  125. Rum,

    why do you even bother trying to help her? Just enjoy the show.

    Like


  126. Nicole,

    Two questions.

    1] do you think that he would have let you go?

    2] he is willing to die and has a good plan to kill- what is your defense?

    Like


  127. on August 6, 2009 at 8:38 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Hey Nicole, while I agree with a lot of what you contribute here…

    Guns are for shooting psychos, not for challenging them.

    Yet your first advice to her was:

    Make it clear that you are armed and willing to use lethal force to defend yourself.

    This is in fact challenging him.

    If hope truly fears for her safety, than hell yeah, get a gun and start practicing with it…

    …but keep that to herself. No need to give him advance notice so he can show up with his own gun…or plan a surprise attack knowing she’s armed and ready.

    Like


  128. Hope – is it possible to return to him? I understant that a miscarriage prcipitated your leaving him. Is it possible to try again?

    Like


  129. Richard Hoste

    “scoring, or to give up all hope and masturbate your life away to the gloomy flicker of an LCD while your fat cow American wife thrashes you to within an inch of your pride.”

    Am I the only one that finds the “fat” American woman in that picture much more appealing?

    Nope. Obsidian would probably feel the same way.

    Ironic, given that you are a white nationalist and he is a black supremacist of sorts, but it is what it is (a couple of guys lusting for the big mama). Kind of confirms my hypothesis about racial nationalism being tied to some earth mother worship.

    Must go back to the primeval lust for the Venus of Willendorf types.

    Like


  130. All very fascinating to a neophyte to the PUA community such as m’self. I commented earlier that Game only helps guys like Rodini marginally, but that margin may be enough, and the difference between complete chumpness and getting some.

    You wrote insightfully, as usual, Roissy, about naturals, and how the first experience with a girl affects one’s natural ability to get with women for the rest of one’s life. I’m guessing this guy’s wasn’t great. That he was at least Game aware puts him ahead of many chumps. He really was somewhat atypical of chumps in that he was fairly good looking, slim, and had at least some social life.

    A few points that people haven’t mentioned enough:

    -He was bald. *I* react negatively to bald guys, and let’s just say my hairline isn’t as close to my nose as it once was. That effect has to be multiplied several times for women. Occam’s razor says he should have used five grand of that quarter million he had saved for hair plugs, it would have made his life a hell of a lot easier. Game only works more than marginally for bald guys on Seinfeld – Costanza had it right: bald guys don’t approach women, because they’ve been shot down enough to know what will happen.

    -Some have mentioned he was aspergery; I don’t see it. His spelling was awful, and not the type of crappy spelling that comes from dyslexia. There didn’t seem to be much in the way of reading or depth there. He’s one of the less eloquent and frankly smart programmers I’ve seen.

    -Exercise. He mentioned how excercise made him feel differently, better, IIRC, something he discovered too late in life. Much has been written about endorphins and testosterone and the effects of exercise, his lack thereof was another contributing factor to what happened. He would have looked and felt better had he gotten more exercise.

    -While you’re perhaps correct Game might have helped him a bit – although this cat was verrrrrry beta – I have a different angle. Actually everyone has their own angle on this, using it to propagate their feminist/antimisandrist/atheist/etc. POV, but here’s mine:

    A combination of specific public policies directly led to this event: H1B visas, prohibition of prostitution, affirmative action which made otherwise unemployable blacks competitors and otherwise unemployable women less dependent on men, male-heavy illegal immigration, bad divorce and family law, and a relatively low (legal) immigration rate favoring working age males. These policies have consequences, and the sum of them, I argue, directly caused this to happen. Take away all of the aforementioned policies and this just wouldn’t have happened.

    Like


  131. Allright toughy nicole. Do you know how many times I have ran into a room with a person waiting that had a gun and I was able to shoot them without them being able to shoot me. A shitload of times. Now the person who makes a descision to do a killing is gonna be the one to win the shooting match. Not the person who is on defense. Reaction time slower when you are waiting bored and that is from someone who is watiing for someone to barge in the door and understands where the person is gonna come in with a loaded weapon. Your telling me your gonna carry a weapon and somehow stop someone who is intent on killing you. You will not stop them. (this was video game)

    Hell when we did ambushes and I ran through the woods I would kill the ambushers just by not giving a fuck and running full speed over their position and aquiring there ass as a target while they where laying there thinking they where camoflaged.

    Like


  132. Kind of confirms my hypothesis about racial nationalism being tied to some earth mother worship.

    Welmer is GNP/Apes’ apt pupil in he lipidous arts of bariatric comedy?

    I guess you could say I am a racial nationalist too. By virtue of feeling in every fiober of my beng that when I spend my living days on Earth and then pass what I have to my progeny, I want to spend these days among peolple who look like I do.

    And yet my love for A-cup boobies is legendary.

    Like


  133. Hell when we did ambushes and I ran through the woods I would kill the ambushers just by not giving a fuck and running full speed over their position and aquiring there ass as a target while they where laying there thinking they where camoflaged.

    Miles Gear or 5.56mm?

    Like


  134. ””””Dave,
    A combination of specific public policies directly led to this event: H1B visas, prohibition of prostitution, affirmative action which made otherwise unemployable blacks competitors and otherwise unemployable women less dependent on men, male-heavy illegal immigration, bad divorce and family law, and a relatively low (legal) immigration rate favoring working age males. These policies have consequences, and the sum of them, I argue, directly caused this to happen. Take away all of the aforementioned policies and this just wouldn’t have happened.””””””””’

    Nice but I also think the woman may not of had to die if suicide would be condoned. If ya don’t want the men don’t keep them around for souvineers make it ok to drop out of life completely and of course let woman go to.

    Like


  135. Naa pa never been to real war unless you count the hood other than getting bombed every couple weeks.

    Like


  136. Bosnia not real war when I was in army but we did do good. Still proud of it after meeting bosnians, mascedonians, and kosovoians. So far every one I have met has been a good guy.

    Like


  137. Gunslingergregi,

    He did commit suicide.. he just wanted some company.

    Like


  138. Gunslingergregi,

    many see george was a incompetent thug..

    I see him as a kamikaze pilot

    Like


  139. ”””””””””Dave from Hawaii
    If hope truly fears for her safety, than hell yeah, get a gun and start practicing with it…

    …but keep that to herself. No need to give him advance notice so he can show up with his own gun…or plan a surprise attack knowing she’s armed and ready.

    This is in fact challenging him.

    ”””””””””””””””””””””

    Exactly right. Thanks for clarifying. Why I said nicols comment one of stupidist comments I have ever read.

    No need to do bluster just try to be as ready as possible.

    This is where equality thinking totally can fuck you up.

    Like


  140. Do you see the problem? This same website condemns Sodini for lusting after young but legal girls.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/05/vanessa-hudgens-naked-pho_n_252002.html

    Vanessa Hudgens nude and partially-dressed photos (scroll) seem to have leaked online again. Pictures of a brunette who looks like the “High School Musical” starlet have hit the web, some topless and others with her clad in a bikini and Zac Efron pin.

    Back in 2007 a stark naked self portrait of Hudgens found its way online, with her publicist confirming it was Hudgens by way of a statement saying the photo was private.

    Check out the below pics and decide, Hudgens or not Hudgens?

    Like


  141. Nine Inch Nails : Burn

    This world rejects me
    This world threw me away
    This world never gave me a chance
    This worlds gonna have to pay
    I dont believe in your institutions
    I did what you wanted me to
    Like cancer in the system
    Ive got a little suprise for you

    Something inside of me has opened up its eyes
    Why did you put it there did you not realize
    This thing inside of me it screams the loudest sound
    Sometimes I think I could

    Burn

    I look down there where youre standing
    Flock of sheep out on display
    Saw your lives burned up around you
    I can take it all away

    Something inside of me has opened up its eyes
    Why did you put it there did you not realize
    This thing inside of me it screams the loudest sound
    Sometimes I think I could

    Im gonna burn this whole world down

    I never was a part of you burn

    I am the agent I never was a part of you burn
    I am corruption I never was a part of you burn
    I am the angel I never was a part of you burn
    Of your destruction I never was a part of you burn

    I am subversion I never was a part of you burn
    Secret desire I never was a part of you burn
    I am your future I never was a part of you burn
    Swallow down all that fire

    Like


  142. What do ya think?

    Like


  143. Well Lucifer the way I see it is I am kind of stuck here. Can’t disprove God. So what I try to do is beat the system. Which is not hard to do if you apply yourself. It did give me a lot of satisfaction to be powerful enough to help my current wife become financially free. Things you can do. I do believe if suicide would have been condoned when I was 18 or so and had gone through watching my dad get treated like a subhuman piece of shit after showing nothing but respect for my mom the whole marriage (no yelling between them, no beatings) I could have not had to go through life. Which would probably be a good thing since no one deserves to see that shit done to their dad and live. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.

    Like


  144. Roissy, appreciate the DHV.

    Just to be clear, I’m not anti-game at all. Game works, and any man alive in the 21st century who hasn’t done their homework on the subject is an idiot. For some reason though the belief that game is 100% practice, practice, practice, and looks/money/inborn social acumen are all irrelevant is a common one in the community.

    IMO, most men can make moderate improvements in their success with women, except for a small group who have the natural skill set to go from terrible to great: High-IQ, analytical nerds. Game is zero sum, but it also creates a massive redistribution in these guys’ favour.

    Then of course there are naturals who are also closet analytical nerds. Life is good to us in this day and age.

    – Zdeno

    Like


  145. “Game” is exactly equivalent to, say, playing baseball. Men can improve their success with women by reading books and attending seminars about as much as they can get better at baseball by reading books and attending seminars. Which is to say about zero improvement. Book learning, coaches, and all that are a *supplement* to the grueling hours of practice that need to take place. Most people do not get this.

    And just as someone who starts playing baseball at age 50 is always going to suck, even if they devote every hour of the day to the activity, someone is always going to suck at ‘Game’ if they start trying to interact with women at the tender young age of 50. All the other men have been practicing since age 12.

    The 50 year old baseball guy will be lucky if he can ever be above average playing other 50 year olds! And that’s with lots of practice.

    The truth about “Game” is equally depressing. If this George guy really devoted himself to getting better with women.. which is 90% field practice, not books and seminars.. he MIGHT have been able to BE NORMAL. Perhaps have a normal loving relationship with a 46 year old divorced 4.

    This is like being able to play an average game of baseball in the park with other 50 year olds.

    But clearly he was fantasizing about reading a few baseball books and then getting drafted into the Major Leagues at age 50.

    Men like this aren’t going without sex for 20 years because there is something that truly makes them undesirable to all eligible women. It’s that the eligible women that are realistically available to them are worse..in their minds.. than celibacy.

    George wanted a fresh teen, and nothing else would suffice, so he lived a life of celibacy, and eventually murdered and killed himself when the “unfair” reality that this is how it would always be sank in.

    Like


  146. Gunslingergregi,

    The difference between most men and me is that I have no illusions about humans, especially women.

    Like


  147. Peter:

    Game is defined as the set of behaviours that improve your outcomes with women. If it doesn’t work, it’s not game. The concept of game is the equivalent of the concept of a “true Scotsman.”

    Like


  148. Rain And,

    It is curious that you want to piss on a dead guy. What did you want him to do.. kill more?

    Like


  149. Lucifer you are mistaken about many things, but you don’t seem like an idiot. Here is my brief attempt at convincing you to direct your (healthy) mistrust of power in a more productive direction:

    – American public schools, colleges, civil service and mainstream media are controlled by: A) Progressives, or B) Conservatives

    – American public opinion has been moving in a: A) Progressive, or B) Conservative direction over the past 200 years.

    – Dollars to doughnuts says that America will be more: A) Progressive, or B) Conservative 20 years from now

    Now tell us again, what were you saying about those evil ibankers running your country into the ground?

    Like


  150. Well Lucifer the point to the excercise of making my woman financially free is to see if maybe it can work out to be equal and in love. Not the fake equal shit we keep hearing about. Two people who are both wealthy because they both put work in not just a one sided affair. staying together because they want to. A little test I have devised which should keep me busy for a couple more years anyway. I tend to make a hypothesis and then prove it. I think we will still love each other because of descision to do so. Find out. I am here might as well do some experimenting. Now of course would be more difficult to run this test in a place that automatically gives woman superpowers but the woman lack real woman power because of that. They always have fallback “victim game” that takes you out of equation.

    Like


  151. Zdeno,

    You are confusing popular opinion with the way people in power think.

    Like


  152. I didn’t piss on him in that post, I was explaining his immature, unrealistic mindset.

    But why would you care if I pissed on him anyway? He murdered completely innocent people.. total strangers.. in cold blood. I would gladly piss on his grave. If he didn’t commit suicide he should have been tortured to death. This is the scum of society.

    Like


  153. Gunslingergregi,

    You still trust women? Ok.. your choice.

    Like


  154. Rain And,

    I don’t think he cared about your definitions of innocence.

    Like


  155. Trust well she has had to earn it. I mean don’t just throw it out there full go. She has to show she is trustable and of course after what happened to dad yea I realize that after 25 years she could just explode into another person. I mean she could have left him. At least be reasonable if that happens maybe ok probably bad but not the same as a bad divorce. Plus yea this is more than likely last one so if she breaks trust then I get what I want. Win Win situation really for me.

    Like


  156. whiskey,

    you’re like the guy who when you’re trying to have a conversation with him, he’s only thinking about what he’s going to say next rather than listening and participating.

    first off, you try to extrapolate celibacy ratios from the ratios of married to unmarried men. so many other variables are at play here (marrying later, extended careers, extended schooling, increases in MGTOW and Game) that it’s not accurate to say that an increase in bachelors and bachelorettes means that there are *more* celibate men. there has also been a huge rise in internet matchmaking, and from what i can tell, men and women who maintain active dating lives rather than marrying (roissy for example).

    and, as usual, you completely missed the point of my comment which was that Game might not help men as a group. roissy doesn’t believe in determinism, and that may be true *for each man*, but it may be true for *all men* given a certain type of “sexual climate”. so for saudi arabia a certain number of men remain celibate or men have a certain distribution of sex partners in their lives…pre-feminist america had some ratio that held as has post-fem america.

    Like


  157. Subcomindant Dave:

    “A combination of specific public policies directly led to this event: H1B visas, ”

    i think you’re thinking about the wrong mass murder. unless i missed a layoff or something, this guy got a promotion and seemed to do pretty well at his job.

    Like


  158. Chuck

    Game helping men as a group is not exactly equivalent to effective weight loss/fitness programs helping women “as a group” but it is not dissimilar.

    Like


  159. Whiskey,

    He finally treated others like he felt others had treated him.

    Like


  160. Rum:

    that’s true. but it still doesn’t contradict the point that there will always be some fat girls. perhaps they lose weight too and aren’t as fat as they were before, but the relative nature of weight and looks for women is the same as that of Game and social dominance in men. the upward movement of a woman on the attractiveness scale merely displaces a woman that was previously above her.

    basically, there will always be winners and losers. we can’t escape that destiny as a race or for each sex.

    so it’s a weird thing to think about, but Sodini *could* have used Game to improve his situation, so he wasn’t necessarily determined to be the way he was, but it wasn’t him, it would have been someone else.

    Like


  161. “There will always be those wretched o***a outliers, those psychologically stripped betas, and those congenitally desperate losers in life who will not benefit from game.”

    Surprise! Surprise! Roissy has admitted this guy was already trying to learn about ‘game’. So much for the ‘if only’ talk. Now the question become “is ‘game’ merely there to make guys realise their full innate potential? Which is to say, it can’t raise any guy up the O-B-A spectrum beyond what they naturally are? If you’re an Alpha ‘game’ will be water off a duck’s back and won’t tell much that you have already figured out. If you’re an O***a then ‘game’ won’t make a difference and quite frankly there’s nothing that will make you attractive to women. “Game’ is only lesser Betas to become greater Betas and Alphas who may have been Beta-ised by those who fear Alphaness and tried to suppress it in him.

    Like


  162. I think lady rain has just understood the consequences of all this for her son.

    Like


  163. Whiskey,

    have you ever thought that LR herself may be an abuser?

    She certainly has that attitude and style, what with declaring that men should be shot in the genitals and all that.

    Why is it that you continue to believe that her ex was so awful? Given her behavior and statements, the guy may have run off screaming for all we know. Women like LR are generally liars. It really blows my mind to see guys taking her statements about her ex for granted.

    There’s obviously something she’s hiding. Given the amount of contempt she expresses for her son’s father, the fact that she is foregoing CS says a lot to me (women who hate their exes almost always try to screw them financially in court). I wouldn’t be half surprised if her case for custody was particularly weak, and she agreed not to pursue CS in order to prevent him from fighting it in court.

    She was a stripper, and has potentially engaged in prostitution (most strippers do to some extent), and likely has some serious experience with hard drugs, such as coke, meth, X, etc.

    Like


  164. whiskey is a George Sodini.

    Like


  165. Gunny and Dave, I am not interested in getting into a pedantic argument about the facts of life. Excuses not to butch up are something I can’t even pretend to tolerate.

    I can barely tolerate the idea that the *men* in her life haven’t already stepped in to hold the line between her and her ex…but that’s feminism. Guys don’t hear stuff like that and forbid their female loved ones to speak to the nutbar anymore.

    Like


  166. …and as decisive as I may be about self defense, you just don’t shoot a guy in the dick. You just don’t.

    Like


  167. on August 6, 2009 at 11:33 pm Comment_Whatever

    Gunslinger:

    Comment how long have you been reading hopes posts?

    Okay, I was hasty. But on review, I don’t think I was wrong.

    Hope is an off again and on again poster. I think that she has various problems. I was ignoring some of them, but looking at what she said, okay, I can see some problems. Most of them don’t bother me that much.

    Perhaps on an absolute moral scale her behavior could be bad. MAYBE. I’d have to guess this and guess that to make any kind of judgment.

    But I can determine whether she is a really bad person without knowing every single detail. Is she a horrible, or a non-horrible person? Hope easily falls into the non-horrible category.

    I list some of the differences between Horrible and non-Horrible behavior at the bottom of this post.

    A surprising number of people fail this test.

    Years of ‘trying’ on a relationship before leaving is a long time. Maybe she should have left, like you said, before looking for another guy. I think she might have had a little more to do with the dysfunctionalness of her relationship than she believes. But I believe the relationship WAS bad for Hope.

    I don’t get the “I’m a Woman, So It’s Right” vibe from her. She doesn’t immediately drop into shame mode. She doesn’t seem like one of the self-Righteous women who believes exactly as they are told. Since she is lacking most of the things that tick me off, I suppose I gave her a pass on other problems. But honestly, if it doesn’t tick me off, then it doesn’t tick me off.

    I believe the ex’s problems had/have very little to do with her. Whether she helped him at all….. or even effectively tried to is a question I can’t answer. I honestly lack the information to say for sure. But I am fairly certain she didn’t CAUSE his problems.

    Welmer wrote:

    Do you know these people personally? Did her ex not give her his most attractive years?

    Because it’s impossible that this is the case?

    Men don’t hit any kind of looks wall. And the not-so-steep downward slope they DO hit(post 35? post 40?) is easily countered by better income, better status, and more experience.

    You do know the difference, Welmer, between the vile whore that was your wife and Hope?

    Okay Gunslinger, this is how I divide the Horrible People from those who are maybe bad, or maybe not

    In Hope’s case there were no children involved.

    That makes the situation completely different.

    Hope didn’t use the SWAT team to terrorize her husband… or accuse him of rape, or any other stunts.

    That makes the situation completely different to.

    I severely doubt Welmer, as a moderately successful businessman, can be in any way compared to Hope’s husband. Only if Welmer seriously beat his wife would I take that back. Of course, Mrs. Call-The-Swat-Team would have had Welmer in jail had he actually abused her. So that’s off the table.

    WHO Hope left, and WHO the vile whore who was Welmer’s wife left ALSO make the situation completely different.

    Also, there is a huge difference between being unfaithful in good times ‘because vile whore was bored’ and being unfaithful in bad times. Bad times that Hope didn’t think were going to end. HUGE difference.

    Since there was no money for Hope to take, I know that Hope didn’t take any money.

    That makes the situation different to. Not nearly so much, but it’s real.

    Does this make Hope a good person? Maybe. Is Hope’s behavior in ANY WAY comparable to the vile whore’s behavior?

    No. Absolutely not.

    Vile Whore=Horrible Person

    Hope=I think she is a nice person, but I’m almost certain she isn’t a Horrible Person.

    This whole good/bad dichotomy ignores the fact that there is ‘Ow! A paper cut!’ bad, and ‘My arm is gone.’ bad.

    I can take the cuts from many deadly blade-like papers if I can successfully dodge that one chainsaw.

    A surprising amount of people fail the Horrible Person test.

    Like


  168. Chuck, while celibacy and marriage are not the same thing, it’s probably reasonable to assume that men never married at age 35-40 are a goodly portion, celibate. You can debate the portion, but that a good number are celibate there can be little doubt.

    i believe that each society, depending on its laws, rules, norms, mores, and traditions has a pretty constant rate of male/female celibacy and/or distribution of sex partners for men (i.e. 10% of the male population will be george sodini, 1% will be roissy etc.)

    That’s bollocks. In fact, the high marriage rates prior to the 1960’s meant that there was LOW celibacy. Since nearly every male was in fact, married. Save priests and a few soldiers. As usual, you’re talking out of your ass. Median age for men getting married in the 1950’s was 23! All the indicators, lack of “Game” or high rate of marriage and early age of marriage point to much lower levels of male celibacy in America in times past. Pre-feminist America had much, much lower levels of celibacy than the current post-feminist America. In fact, shootings like that of Cho, or Soldini, or any number of these were UNKNOWN. Alien to America.

    We agree that game may not help groups of men, but we disagree on the cause. You hold a certain proportion of men in any society will be celibate, and that proportion will be stable over time, because female selection is and always was CONSTANT and UNCHANGING. The same selection criteria now in Post-Feminist America as it was in 1952. That’s ridiculous on the face of it. I hold Game may not help groups of men because female selection will CHANGE according to increased supply of more Game-oriented men.

    Nor is it true that men have the same criteria for women as women do for men. Men and women have floors, but most men are perfectly happy to settle for a woman who meets their attractiveness floor if other things are in place — including character, intelligence, and past liaisons. Since for a man these are objective not relational criteria. I.E. is she physically attractive? Not, is she marginally more attractive than the next girl? Sorting does occur, but a man is far less likely to reject a good “buy” (since it remains a sellers market) than a woman a good “offer” (since she has seller’s market power). And the opportunity cost of not having sex with ANY woman vs. holding out for Ms. Perfect is huge.

    Lucifer — A man has to have standards, in all things, or he is not a man.

    Welmer — good points, but I do agree that Murder and/or suicide are evil things to be condemned and stopped. In that limited way only I agree with her. I found her statements regarding “abuse” self-serving since the attributes of her ex were hardly hidden and the reason she chose him.

    Abe — No I won’t sleep with you. I have standards. Sorry.

    Like


  169. “He finally treated others like he felt others had treated him”

    Oh, good for him. Jesus. I hope a fat girl shoots you to death to somehow make up for the fact that Barack Obama or Johnny Depp haven’t fallen madly in love with her porcine ass. Boo hoo hoo.

    Like


  170. chuck:

    that’s true. but it still doesn’t contradict the point that there will always be some fat girls. perhaps they lose weight too and aren’t as fat as they were before, but the relative nature of weight and looks for women is the same as that of Game and social dominance in men.

    No. Women’s gina tingles are dependent on the rank and social dominance of men relative to each other.

    Men on the other hand will find a woman beautiful or not irrespective of other factors.

    Like


  171. on August 7, 2009 at 12:24 am Comment_Whatever

    Gunny says

    Nicole that has to be the stupidest advice I have ever fucking heard in my entire life. If she tells him haha you can’t do it because I am armed it is a challenge for him to kill her.

    Guns are for shooting psychos, not for challenging them.

    Nicole said:

    See, here’s another example of that uncrossable mental divide between people like you and people like me.

    Is Hope dealing with a jilted lover/crazy.. or a run-of-the-mill bully?

    Gunny is right with regards to Hope’s situation. She should get a gun and learn how to use it. But don’t threaten him. He is a gilted lover, not a bully. Threatening him is BAD. BAD. BAD.

    Now, bullies DO back up if you threaten crazily. So, Nicole, if he were your typical dime-a-dozen punk…. that would work. But he isn’t. Jilted lover. ENTIRELY different situation.

    But seeing the bully run is fun… so I can see how it would become a little addictive. But you do have to understand the difference between a punk and a jilted lover.

    Like


  172. Exactly Tupac.

    And Abe (who I assume is a chick) — I STILL won’t sleep with you. Stop asking.

    Like


  173. Lucifer

    The difference between most men and me is that I have no illusions concept about humans, especially women.

    Like


  174. You missapropriated part of my qoute:

    This was ghost:

    ”””””””’Guns are for shooting psychos, not for challenging them. ””””’

    Like


  175. Comment_Whatever, since I’m the ugliest woman on earth, I’ve never had a guy who felt “challenged” by the knowledge that if they didn’t get the fuck out, someone would be carrying them out.

    So yeah, a pretty girl should probably hide the fact that she’s capable of defending herself until the guy has a gun to her head. Wouldn’t want to intimidate or challenge anyone, now would we?

    Like


  176. “No. Women’s gina tingles are dependent on the rank and social dominance of men relative to each other.

    Men on the other hand will find a woman beautiful or not irrespective of other factors.”

    given that we face tradeoffs, men will choose more beautiful women over less beautiful. their looks *are* relative.

    [editor: only over a long enough timespan. like hundreds or thousands of years. within your lifetime, an increase of 8s, 9s and 10s (let’s say through a massive shedding of excess pounds) is an absolute increase, not a relative one, as beauty is objectively measurable. in a similar way, male game is alos objectively attractive to women, so more men practicing game would mean more attractive men for women to choose.]

    funny that whiskey still doesn’t grasp the fact that i’m actually supporting his argument.

    Like


  177. Chuck you wrote that there is an absolute proportion of celibate men in America that is constant over time. I.E. the same in 1952 as now. That implies the same demand for men by women being constant and that I reject. I see no evidence for it.

    We agree on the net result (game won’t help groups of men) but disagree on the cause. It’s like arguing that being near a swamp can result in malaria. Does it result from mosquito bites transmitting disease or “vapors?”

    Men will choose somewhat plainer women if other elements are in play — including youth, intelligence, lack of many partners, and character. Men are also buyers in a sellers market and will take the hottie in hand over the hypothetical hotter hottie later.

    Like


  178. A plainer woman can also be chosen on the theory that a marginally less attractive woman (though still hot) will face less mate-stealing competition from other men. In other words, if you are married to Scarlett Johanssen, even if you are Ryan Reynolds, you better be on your A Game every second. Whereas, an Alyson Hannigan requires less effort to guard and keep.

    Like


  179. re-reading my original comment, i’ll concede that i wasn’t as clear as i should have been. what i’m going to call a “sexual regime” encapsulates all the attitudes and social norms of a given society. within each “regime” celibacy and distribution of numbers of sex partners is relatively constant.

    some different sexual regimes:

    saudi arabia
    USA – 1920-1970?
    USA – 1970-present
    Victorian England
    present day England

    these are abstract ideas.

    either way, it was corollary to my main point that Game merely shakes up the totem pole.

    [editor: as a theoretical matter, i’m not so sure that game is a zero sum… game. much like an increase in female beauty would bring an increase in the number of boners, and increase in men using game would bring an increase in the number of gina tingles. i have more to say on this which i plan to put in a separate post.]

    Like


  180. “To learn the art of seduction and at least give yourself a fighting chance to score more often and with women better looking and more personable than what you are accustomed to scoring, or to give up all hope and masturbate your life away to the gloomy flicker of an LCD while your fat cow American wife thrashes you to within an inch of your pride.”

    This is a great quote. Love the Pink Floydd reference.

    It is like what my life was like several months ago. My poor sex life with my wife (who had also gotten fat) had so beat me down that I really thought I was some sort of loser when, in fact, I can fare quite well on the meat market (though not very good at night clubs yet but I’m certainly doing good at day game). It really affected me personally and my whole outlook on life negatively until I read posts here and there in the whole PUA community and started to internalize the thinking.

    In high school I was a popular kid. I was good at sports. I was intelligent, team captain in hockey, class president, prom court, etc…. I was considered good looking by women. I got the best looking girls – I’ve almost never had a girl turn me down… ever…. no matter how good looking… I lost my virginity at 13 to a good looking 15 year old.

    Despite being blessed with all this, because my game sucked, I felt insecure and didn’t realize my potential. I fell for the “white knight” syndrome. But the reality is that “white knights” get screwed. And not only that but it took me a while to realize that this isn’t what women want. It took me 15 year to figure it out and I finally got fed up and decided I needed to do something about it.

    Game has not only enriched my life, but the lives of several women. The problem is that the meat market is a zero sum game to some extent. I’m probably stealing quality lays from deserving men with marginal meat market value. It isn’t fair.

    Like


  181. Sorry for the double post but I just said “zero sum” and Roissy said it is not so. I’d like to hear Roissy’s take on how it is not so.

    Like when I’m baning a married chick, am I stealing from her husband’s lays with here ? Not if the chicks are to believed – their husbands are “impotent” so they claim. Or too interested in video games or sleeping… But I harbor a lingering suspicion that they are just a bit bored with him and he’s been wimpish… much as i have been with my wife a few years back. I ask them about this and they deny it. They so clearly love their men (or so they claim). But yet their innate sexual reaction to me defy this love they profess…

    Like


  182. [editor: as a theoretical matter, i’m not so sure that game is a zero sum… game. much like an increase in female beauty would bring an increase in the number of boners, and increase in men using game would bring an increase in the number of gina tingles. i have more to say on this which i plan to put in a separate post.]

    i’m glad you’re addressing this, as it’s been a source of contention for me since i was first drawn to this blog and these topics from a slight MRA point of view.

    when you do address it, it would be interesting to read your take on what an increase in women’s acting on their vagina tingles – elicited from men with Game – has on the whole thing. my argument is that if women are turned on by more guys, they’ll have sex with them, but men prefer women with few partners rather than many. creates a sort of conundrum, no?

    also, it still reverts back to a hierarchy in which men are ranked compared to each other.

    Like


  183. jerrdogg:

    “Not if the chicks are to believed – their husbands are “impotent” so they claim. Or too interested in video games or sleeping… But I harbor a lingering suspicion that they are just a bit bored with him and he’s been wimpish”

    i had the same experience, and i used it until recently to rationalize and justify my sleeping with another man’s wife. she busted out all the “my sex drive’s too high” and “i’m at my sexual peak” and “he doesn’t want to have sex with me anymore” BS to justify it herself.

    Like


  184. whiskey – Now imagine most other guys in his same market-space do the same thing. Result, women simply move upwards.

    I don’t think this is true for humans. Women are wired to respond to dominant, aggressive, masculine behaviors for the obvious survival reasons. But I don’t believe they would reject the majority of men and seek ever finer gradations of those behaviors if every man mastered game. Their responses are wired at a lower level than that. If every man knew game there would be more successful relationships with the majority of men getting laid. And I think women would be much happier with their choices and world. As Roissy points out, this might change, but only over many, many generations.

    For the same reason game behaviors work even when women know you are running “game” on them, sometimes even when it’s discussed in front of them. If a woman says “I got fake tits to attract more men” it doesn’t stop the men around her from being attracted to her tits. Our responses occur at too low of a level for rational realizations to stop them. This is also why women tell each other how much they want nice guys, then go right after the bad.

    If you have a large pool of guys who are invested in society’s overthrow by ANYTHING that promises a better sexual deal, you have a ready made cadre that enemies inside and out can use against you.

    You’re spot on whenever you discuss this. I worry about what the future holds for an America filled with men who have no investment in society.

    Just as teen boys need to be taught how to be men by well, men, teen girls need to be taught how to be women … by women. And control is the heart of both of them. Control over violence, aggression, anger, and physical strength for boys, and sexuality for girls.

    I couldn’t agree more. We’re not teaching our boys to control their natural male aggression, and we’re not teaching our girls to control their natural female sexuality.

    Like


  185. Chuck – also, it still reverts back to a hierarchy in which men are ranked compared to each other.

    I don’t think they are in the absolute sense you are implying. Certainly women will observe how men interact and look for DHVs and dominance. Likewise men will compare women on their beauty. But a 9 over there doesn’t mean you have no attraction to a 7 over here.

    Like


  186. Shit he could have had 25 tens just ran around handing out 10k stacks he was dumb in that regard. Let me tell you why he didn’t do that though. Because he was still trying to live a moral life up until the end. He was not supposed to swear drink hate people take revenge steal rob pay for sex becasue those are all bad things. He didn’t do the minor bad things so that when he went to talk to god he could explain he led a
    “good” life up until the point where he committed the murders.

    Damn, does that ever hit home. I had a rather strict, religious childhood, and one of the hardest things for me to do was to accept that I wanted to do some “minor bad things”, and that they weren’t really bad after all. Just perhaps not healthy if done too often or taken to extremes. (This would be the drinking, swearing, sex or paying for sex category of bad things.)

    As funny as this sounds, it was also hard for me to accept that I’m a normal guy like every other guy, and sometimes I want to do bad things that are really bad and shouldn’t be done. (This would be the anger, hatred, revenge, stealing category.) Most people stop short of doing them and feel good about their self control. When you come from a strict background, however, you feel terrible guilt just for having those desires, even if you never act on them. It’s like you punish yourself for being tempted yet doing the right thing.

    Sodini and his victims might be alive today if he had just accepted he had sexual needs that weren’t being met and picked up some escorts. I know paying for sex is viewed negatively by most, perhaps especially successful PUAs. But an escort can be beneficial to a man in that kind of a dry spell. Beyond just taking the edge off, it’s interaction with a woman on a sexual level which can help with future interactions.

    On top of that he had an obvious preference for young women that he probably could not fulfill, given his age and state, on his own. He needed to learn game, improve as a human, and seek relationships with obtainable women. But why should anyone care if he scratched his itch for a 20 something hottie for a few hundred dollars?

    We live in a nation where sexuality is plastered every where, yet sex for money is illegal and shamed above many other behaviors which are worse. We don’t teach our frustrated boys how to attract women and manage relationships with women. Then we paint them as losers whether they rot alone or seek relief from a professional. Through in a little religious guilt for good measure, and is it any wonder that some men end up snapping?

    Like


  187. DT:

    that’s correct, but as i said earlier, assuming one could get both the 7 and the 9, they’ll choose the 9.

    Like


  188. Through in a little religious guilt for good measure, and is it any wonder that some men end up snapping?

    Through should be Throw.

    Like


  189. Chuck – that’s correct, but as i said earlier, assuming one could get both the 7 and the 9, they’ll choose the 9.

    Every woman won’t have that option. And women, much more so than men, will vary on who is a 7 and a 9. We know they want confidence and dominance, but for one woman that’s the Wall St. tycoon while for another it’s the broke band leader.

    Human interaction also just isn’t as clean as a product market where the introduction of higher quality at lower prices will all of a sudden change everyone’s standards. If the 7 can attract the girl and build some rapport she will end up wrapped up in him while the 9 is over by the bar somewhere getting his game on with someone else.

    You just need to be able to trigger feelings of attraction. You don’t have to be the absolute, objective, most Alpha in the room.

    Like


  190. ””””DT,
    We live in a nation where sexuality is plastered every where, yet sex for money is illegal and shamed above many other behaviors which are worse. We don’t teach our frustrated boys how to attract women and manage relationships with women. Then we paint them as losers whether they rot alone or seek relief from a professional. Through in a little religious guilt for good measure, and is it any wonder that some men end up snapping?””””””””’

    Yea everything is geared towards making money and it has worked well. It is just once you work almost all the hours in a day and still don’t save money and that is almost all your people there is no more room for growth with the old system. Now get some unlimted power going on making it free. Give everyone a micro factory to run and Go ahead and do some pyramid style projects like when they where built. Except we build a couple wonders of the world that mean something to people. Then we can maybe just love one another and slut or playa maybe won’t matter.

    Like


  191. Whiskey, I’ve been following your comments for more than a year ( since “Dirty Harry’s Place”) and it seems that you are a very frustrated male and perhaps more screwed up than David Alexander. All your opinions can be reduced to: “women won’t sleep with me. here’s why.” I somewhat share your frustration though so it’s all good.

    Specifically, you seem to blame women ALL THE TIME for despising betas rather than working on your game. How come you never talk about YOUR attempts at game? Your success stories? Or, even, your hilarious failures? It’s because you’re George Sodini (pre-killing rampage): You don’t get any. Not only don’t you get any, but you seem utterly fearful of trying. And so you seethe about your status and theorize endlessly about women.

    PLEASE don’t try to paint me as someone who fundamentally disputes the ideas behind PUA. I don’t.

    (And understand that I’m not looking down on you. I’m a beta myself and don’t really have much game. But it’s as if your complete and utter inability to get some is the basis for your entire world view. A little self-reflection can perhaps help you overcome this.)

    Like


  192. Oh sure, keep arguing that all he had was the WRONG PRODUCT.

    You guys kepe plugging the same BRAND NAMES that are not much different from Steele, with most of those “gurus” using money and fame, and “industry connections” to get their own women.

    Fact is, you can’t promise a hottie in every bed. The “community” also has strong ties to white supremacists, who they hired as “cybergoons” to harass me and my dying mother a few years back.

    Their websites are censored, their advertising channels exclude competition, and you’re not going to hear about the Sodinis who populate ALL gurus’ audiences.

    Sodini just shows the limitations of the marketing hype. People talk about “the methods” as if women WANT them, but only a subset of barslut drama queens respond to it.

    What’s dangerous is that these gurus give guys like Sodini false hope, which leads to behavior like this. He won’t be the first, as there are thousands just like him in the community, which is really just a marketing cartel.

    Mystery? If he has such game, why’d he threten Herbal for sleeping with his EX? Why did he threaten to kill himself in 2002 because “living, costs too much?’

    We’re now seeing the unethical side of these men surfacing, through their students, and it’s only going to get MUCH worse until the real problem is addressed.

    Anyone who thinks it was just a bad choice of teacher is shortsighted here. The probelm is the cult-like structure of the “community,” and the ridiculous promises made to the consumers.

    Hell, one guru RAPED his ex in a bar by threatening to kill her and her kids if she talked to another man and didn’t go home with him. Other guurs KNEW this but put money ahead of truth.

    On the commercial side, when you start acting like only the guys YOU endorse can teach this stuff, while telling men to avoid all other sources, you become part of the problem, by playing “guru” yourself.

    My 1999 book “29 Reasons Not To Be A Nice Guy” debuted the PIVOT technique. I then saw people learning it from sources who stole it from me, and then trashing me in the next post! People are just STUPID and want first prize anyway. When the l”alpha” is tested by reality, he can either admit defeat (he won’t, pride) or impose himself on the dissneter, as Sodini did.

    I expect the government to begin a serious crackdown against the community, and all the business laws it’s been violting for years, since the false-advertising, shills, and payola have now caused a human toll. One guru even convinces students to blow their financial aid checks on workshops, which is total fraud.

    The link to white-supremacists was also confirmed yet again. For five yars, this link was easy to find, just like Sodini’s blog, but no one bothered to care, because all they were targeting was ME.

    Ray GVordon
    http://www.toosmarttofail.com
    Love Conquers Nothing

    Like


  193. Ray is here. Roissy, you have arrived!

    Like


  194. on August 7, 2009 at 9:11 am Comment_Whatever

    Ghost of Nicole:

    Comment_Whatever, since I’m the ugliest woman on earth, I’ve never had a guy who felt “challenged” by the knowledge that if they didn’t get the fuck out, someone would be carrying them out.

    So yeah, a pretty girl should probably hide the fact that she’s capable of defending herself until the guy has a gun to her head. Wouldn’t want to intimidate or challenge anyone, now would we?

    So you faced down a jilted lover who had no intention of hurting you, Nicole? How BRAVE. I’ve seen American’s do the ‘oh-I’m-so-scared’ routine right before they threaten violence to. I once refused a tetanus vaccine because my injuries had nothing to do with metal, and weren’t even dirty, and the doctor become ‘scared’. So he was ‘forced’ to call in a male nurse to lurk threateningly behind me. All this because he was ‘scared’. Of a ‘threat’ he KNEW wasn’t real.
    I hadn’t even raised my voice, by the way, Excuse Brigade.

    So YOU were a bully Nicole. How nice.

    Gunslinger said:

    You missapropriated part of my qoute:

    This was ghost:

    Ghost said:

    ”””””””’Guns are for shooting psychos, not for challenging them. ””””’

    Sorry.

    Like


  195. on August 7, 2009 at 9:20 am mandy been here a while

    Did Ray misspell his own last name?

    Like


  196. A plainer woman can also be chosen on the theory that a marginally less attractive woman (though still hot) will face less mate-stealing competition from other men. In other words, if you are married to Scarlett Johanssen, even if you are Ryan Reynolds, you better be on your A Game every second. Whereas, an Alyson Hannigan requires less effort to guard and keep.

    @whiskey —

    True, but in that case it’s only marginal and of very small impact. Someone like Hannigan probably gets hit on at least as often, if not more, than Johanssen does. In order to drop to a lower level of mate guarding, you need to drop down the attractiveness level much more considerably than that. Hannigan would still require a crapton of mate guarding behavior to retain.

    [editor: as a theoretical matter, i’m not so sure that game is a zero sum… game. much like an increase in female beauty would bring an increase in the number of boners, and increase in men using game would bring an increase in the number of gina tingles. i have more to say on this which i plan to put in a separate post.]

    This is an important point, and I’m interested to see your post.

    My own sense is that women are optimizers and will always, in any situation, find a way to differentiate and choose what, to them under the circumstances, seems more optimal. I’m skeptical of the idea that if all men become proficient at Game, women would tend to be attracted to more men. The reason for that is that I think that runs the real risk of assuming that women are more like men in the sense of once a man is over a certain “standard” in terms of Game, she will be attracted. I don’t think that’s what hypergamy means, though. I think, for men, it’s true that as more women become physically attractive, more will be over the “standard” — and hence there will be more attractive women. Our attraction is not a zero-sum game because it is standard driveb. Hypergamy, though, by its nature seeks the best. If more men become good at Game, I think women will find another way to distinguish between us hypergamously.

    But as I say, I’m interested in seeing the contra view.

    Like


  197. Roissy

    Do you have a post which recommends what books and puas to check out?

    If not maybe you could write one?

    Like


  198. My new book, “Love Conquers Nothing,” costs ONLY $50,000.00, but I’m selling it to only one customer.

    The “Community” stuff was mostly ripped off from my earlier works, and once I stopped supplying the thieves with new info, things deteriorated to where we now get mass shootings from the students.

    Nos hock to me.

    Like


  199. When I began writing my new book, I realized just how WRONG so much of the current theory is. The “community” is a marketing machine rubber-stamped by the media, and unchallenged due to its own censorship practices. Guys like Sodini buy into the lies and wind up freaked out when no one accepts them as “alphas.”

    He is EXACTLY what they market to: he has Asperger’s, so he can’t spot liars, he needs to belong, and finds a group of internet friends, for a “price” of a few thousand dollars that isn’t much money to him (but is a meal ticket to the hungry gurus who feed off him). In many ways, the community was built specifically to separate guys like this from his money.

    What happens when the next Sodini blames his GURU rather than the women? Don’t think that won’t happen either.

    There’s a price to pay for using people, be it for money or sex.

    Ray Gordon
    http://www.toosmarttofail.com

    Like


  200. [editor: as a theoretical matter, i’m not so sure that game is a zero sum… game. much like an increase in female beauty would bring an increase in the number of boners, and increase in men using game would bring an increase in the number of gina tingles. i have more to say on this which i plan to put in a separate post.]

    Roissy, I’ve read you make this point a number of times, and I’m always left with the same nagging doubt (re whether game is zero-sum or not): Doesn’t your analogy – that between a) the effect an overall increase in female beauty would have on men, and b) the effect an overall increase in male game would have on women – ignore the attraction asymmetries between men and women? Doesn’t you analogy require the underlying attraction mechanism between men and women to be structurally similar (allowing you to suggest that something which would work for one gender would also work for the other)?

    Here’s why I think your analogy may be off, and that game may be closer to zero-sum (if not totally zero-sum) than your argument suggests: It has been said that female game is a “myth”. Or that, if there is female game, it consists of factors largely beyond their control such as youth and beauty. (A sweet, submissive disposition, or facsimile thereof would be one of the few things a female could adjust, however). But basically, male attraction is fairly “homogenous”; we are attracted to largely the same sorts of things which are largely out of the woman’s control. That’s why it doesn’t make sense to speak of “female game”.

    On the other hand, “male game”, or just *game* is complex, nuanced, subtle, and if done well, very effective. Most men can learn some, and thus improve their interactions with women, if they only apply themselves and get out of their comfort zones. This is because, in part, female attraction functions differently than what we might call “static” male attraction. The drive for hypergamy within women causes them to evaluate our social standing, and that introduces a contextual element (head of the board, rock star, professor, mysterious loner, fireman) within female attraction that is for the most part not present within male attraction. Moreover, it seems to be that the introduction of *contextual elements* of this sort is what allows a much game to be both be effective and exist as a skill that is teachable/learnable.

    All this makes me wonder if, due to the hypergamous nature of female attraction (which is always to some degree a measurement of *relative* worth) achieving an overall increase in the attractiveness of males to females would be much more unlikely event than an overall increase in the attractiveness of females to males.

    Not saying game is fully zero-sum….but I get the sense that women would more quickly get desensitized to plethora of tight-game-spitting men than men would get desensitized to a bevy of Victoria Secret models constantly within their midst. And thus, women would still pine for alphas (along this newly defined metric) much more rapidly than men would start demoting Marissa Miller to a 6-7.

    Keep up the great work,

    Peace.

    Like


  201. God that is so fucking lame. If you met your boyfriend on Warcraft, you suck, and that’s all I can say.

    I know, I know. We’re a bunch of losers, lamers, nerds, etc. We suck. We’re the outcasts that society points at and laughs at.

    You know what though? We have a lot more love between us than many people who met via whatever method society has approved. We communicate well, we fit together well, and we are kind, supportive and playful with each other. We have built a sanctuary of peace and positivity from our love.

    So hey, you are free to meet a couple like us in person, and you are free to laugh at us. We can laugh at ourselves, too.

    is it possible to return to him? I understant that a miscarriage prcipitated your leaving him. Is it possible to try again?

    The miscarriage did not really precipitate it. It was a number of realizations — none of which excuses my actions or what I did, certainly — but that ultimately led me to realize I never should have married him in the first place. I knew, when I was taking those vows, that I did not really mean them. The lie was from the beginning.

    He wanted to keep me when I wanted to leave, and he used all kinds of methods from threatening suicide to guilt in order to trap me there. At the time I thought that this was just what love was. Lots of pain, sadness, anger, fighting, screaming, bitterness, resentment, blame, and all manners of nastiness.

    Whereas before the 1 Corinthians 13:4 passage from the bible always struck me as strange, after I moved out, I realized that it was not the bible that was wrong, but my old conception of love.

    “Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.”

    Like


  202. Comment_Whatever asks, “So you faced down a jilted lover who had no intention of hurting you, Nicole?”

    No, but I’ve stabbed an ex FWB who jumped me and didn’t know who he was fucking with.

    “How BRAVE.”

    Funny, at the time, I was very afraid and yet numb at the same time, and reacting according to my training.

    …but I guess that wouldn’t register to suburbanite pussies who’ve never been in an actual fight in your lives.

    “So YOU were a bully Nicole. How nice.”

    Well, if you need a villain, I’m happy to oblige.

    See the _Fight Club_ monologue about wanting to put a bullet in the head of a panda who won’t fuck to save its own species.

    Like


  203. Hope, some people just can’t stand the idea of people they’ve classed as “inferior” being happy.

    It’s not enough that we accept the social landscape and stick to our own. If we’re not kissing their asses and worshipping them for being better conformists, they feel it’s their job to humiliate and degrade us.

    This is what I was talking about in my response to Lucifer about how someone invested in the herd reacts to finding themselves dissatisfied with a low status position. Those who can’t see beyond the pasture will become hostile, but still not get the idea that there is a big forest out there beyond their artificial boundaries.

    Like


  204. ON “game” being zero-sum, it is, unless women increase their sexual activity, then it becomes zero-sum once that’s done.

    If all men learned “tight game,” the same thing that happened to chess with chess computers would happen:

    1. Everyone would make better moves.

    2. It would become far more difficult to win, because everyone is making better moves. Less weakness in the opposition to exploit.

    This presumes that “game” works. Ever wonder why people talk about “the methods” rather than getting specific?

    It’s because once you start going over HOW this “game” is supposed towork (like negs), people realizes it doesn’t.

    People are confusing internet marketing noise with actual knowledge, and this in part is what caused Sodini to go off the deep end. He really thought he was fixing himself, and was egged along every step of the way by the “community” that profits from the mindset.

    There are better games out there, but when the brand names lock up distribution, those who really know have no reason to teach it.

    You telling me you wouldn’t want to know how to REALLY get a “perfect 10?” I can teach that, but if some loser is making noise telling people to avoid me, why should I bother? All i do is make those who steal my work richer, and hurt my own game.

    Ray Gordon
    http://www.toosmarttofail.com

    Like


  205. More women slutting around with a select group of Alphas…average guys left out in the cold…couples of hot women and asshole guys shoved in our faces daily…women who mock and are indifferent to our plight…eventually it’s time to FUCK SHIT UP.

    Like


  206. Nova, I’m not quite sure that would be the case (i.e. a Hannigan gets hit on a lot). Simply because of her social circles (Hollywood B-C listers) she’s merely attractive, not the general run of uber-starlets like say Megan Fox before she hit in Transformers. One of the big complaints Hollywood actresses give is their potential mate pool is so small (because of course, hypergamy). I.E. the potential guys who would be a competitive threat would target the Johanssens not the Hannigans, and it’s a small bunch. This would seem to be true the higher up the ladder you go socially. I myself have seen this trade-off, a guy taking the marginally less hot chick because as he explained to me, he doesn’t have to spend all his time stopping other guys from hitting on her. My guess is this is most pronounced the higher up the food chain a guy goes, because the pay-off is higher (i.e. less potential competitors, thus a higher payoff for marginally less attractive mate).

    I agree completely on the hypergamy view. It’s my own sense that more Game-driven guys simply drives women to make more hypergamous distinctions either on Game itself or other factors. Though it’s probably academic, given how difficult it is for most guys to adapt to Game. Since adapting means throwing out years of cultural conditioning and self-image.

    Like


  207. Tripper, shit is already fucked up.

    The question is what are you going to do to make life better for you?

    You can already see that the system you’re investing in and trying to get something out of, is not working to your benefit.

    Make your own, or find a niche that suits you better than the mainstream.

    …but either of those options takes balls. If you have them, use them.

    Like


  208. ”””””””Hope,
    The miscarriage did not really precipitate it. It was a number of realizations — none of which excuses my actions or what I did, certainly — but that ultimately led me to realize I never should have married him in the first place. I knew, when I was taking those vows, that I did not really mean them. The lie was from the beginning.”””””””

    Wow

    Like


  209. ”””””””’Ray Gordon,
    What’s dangerous is that these gurus give guys like Sodini false hope, which leads to behavior like this. He won’t be the first, as there are thousands just like him in the community, which is really just a marketing cartel.”””””””

    It is not false hope in life there is no hope there is only the material world and people and whatever. People come to the conclusion that life is meaningless without puas. The lifestyle is something to do in an otherwise meaningless world.

    People are looking for things that have meaning the problem is there is none. Religion can get you to where at least you just wait out your natural death.

    Like


  210. Whiskey has been repeatedly propositioned by chic noir. ( Take that Travis. Of course The Travis Solution doesn’t work because of the ‘give a man a fish and he gets one meal, or teach him how to fish and he is set for life?’ dilemma. It is not worth the cost to women in a relationship to throw that away to give a man one meal. Might donate to the Sodini Foundation: Giving Free Prostitutes For A Day Since 09 To All In Need, who knows? )

    Ray Gordon’s website rings every alarm bell of ‘con!’ in the book.

    Like


  211. “Con?” Hmm, people get sued for words like that. Are the IRS jackpot winning forms (W-2G) fake as well? Aw shoot, you’re just JEALOUS of someone who can roll up 8k at the track from a $20.00 bill in two weeks, admit it. You’d be amazed at how many super-hot women want to go the track with me LOL.

    I should post some screenshots of a Sodini-like follower of a famous guru who sent me over 200 death threats by IM in a two-month period. He did it to get free instruction.

    In fact, he was in the DC LAIR, the same city that spawned this blog author.

    The gurus often use guys like this to go after their competitors as well. Looks like the whole sordid story’s about to come out.

    This is also why my next book costs fifty grand. Most of you are losers who don’t deserve 9s or 10s. The one man who does, and whoc can afford to learn, does.

    Ray Gordon
    http://www.toosmarttofail.com

    Like


  212. Um…Ray, you don’t strike me as being at a higher level of awareness than this blog’s author.

    Maybe that’s a false impression, so I’ll give you a chance to explain yourself in a way that doesn’t come off as defensive.

    When you say to the readers here that, “Most of you are losers who don’t deserve 9s or 10s,” what do you mean by “deserve”?

    There may be a fair degree of kvetching, but most of the regulars here can handle constructive criticism.

    Like


  213. “Um…Ray, you don’t strike me as being at a higher level of awareness than this blog’s author.”

    Awareness of what? I do see higher intelligence here, but that is of limited value to women.

    “Maybe that’s a false impression, so I’ll give you a chance to explain yourself in a way that doesn’t come off as defensive. When you say to the readers here that, “Most of you are losers who don’t deserve 9s or 10s,” what do you mean by “deserve”?”

    Meaning you don’t do the work necessary to win them over beyond adhering to someone else’s “proven” strategy. Haven’t seen an original idea or concept in this blog, but I have seen a lot of endorsements of products, including a few that were “derived” (without attribution) from my work. I’m the guy that came up with the “pivot” technique, for example. Many “gurus” use it to get cred, then get paid to teach it. If I point out that I was screwed out of proper credit or money I get the pity-the-loser routine where they try to act indignified while kissing up to the thieves.

    “There may be a fair degree of kvetching, but most of the regulars here can handle constructive criticism.”

    I’m sure they can. Doesn’t mean they deserve 9s and 10s. I’ve been sitting on those secrets for eight years now, since I pulled the plug on the people who stole my first two books’ worth of ideas and began mainstreaming them, something I allowed mostly because it’s fun to have such an amazing impact on the gene pool. Doesn’t mean I’ll play Santa again.

    The current seduction theory is archaic compared to the game I’ve worked out. If I sell it to ONE person, however, it gets copied by piracy groups, then winds up in someone else’s hands, etc. Come to think of it, $50,000.00 is too cheap. Gonna raise the price to a half-mil. ONE guy will pay it eventually; if not, I don’t give a damn anyway. Just done making my rivals rich or smarter.

    What I don’t get is that if PUAs are so superior to AFCs, how do AFCs get their girlfriends to brag about them, while PUAs get laid only on the condition no one find out? Sounds kind of backwards.

    Let me guess: all the men here get 9s and 10s and don’t need the help. Good. I’ll be back at the track then. Check the jackpot forms on my website for that cred.

    Bottom line is I didn’t get paid first time around for building much of the theory. Those who caused that, or stood down, don’t deserve the new information that is now necessary since everyone has finally spilled the old.

    The DC Lair is full of white-supremacists and corrupt government types, I’m told. I’ve had my life threatened by one and have been harassed publicly by the other, so I’m inclined to believe it.

    The gurus use “Sodini” types to commit crimes on their behalf, btw. I’m also in the process of notifying the families of the shooting victims that the government was well aware of this problem, but swept it under the rug in part because some of the men in power wanted the secrets for getting laid, which I can also prove.

    All they had to do was go after them for false advertising, the public crimes against me, or even defrauding the government by marketing to students by suggesting they spend their financial-aid checks on workshops.

    Has the blog owner disclosed his financial ties or lack thereof to any guurs?

    Like


  214. “Con?” Hmm, people get sued for words like that

    God, Americans.

    Aw shoot, you’re just JEALOUS of someone who can roll up 8k at the track from a $20.00 bill in two weeks, admit it

    Very.

    Like


  215. The DC Lair is full of white-supremacists

    LOL because Jewish guys and Asian dudes vibe with white-supremacists so well.

    Like


  216. George Sodini is a fucking hero, just like Mr. Cho. I was so happy that the media finally mentioned that sexual starvation was the major cause of the shooting. I was then dissappointed to hear that he only killed 3 people. With all those 30 round magazines, he would be doing all us loosers a favor by killing as many women as possible. These cunts are too stupid and illogical to understand or even realize a phrase coined in the old west which says “Samuel Colt created all men equally” We need more of these shootings to happen, maybe then the cunts will realize that they cannot mock shy/intellectual men and that there are ramifications to walking all over what they perceive as weak men. I cannot wait for the next shooting. Whoever steps up and continues the work of Mr. Cho and Mr.Sodini would be doing this feminist shithole called the USA a big favor.

    Like


  217. George Sodini is a fucking hero, just like Mr. Cho. I was so happy that the media finally mentioned that sexual starvation was the major cause of the shooting. I was then disappointed to hear that he only killed 3 people. With all those 30 round magazines, he would be doing all us losers a favor by killing as many women as possible. These cunts are too stupid and illogical to understand or even realize a phrase coined in the old west which says “Samuel Colt created all men equally” We need more of these shootings to happen, maybe then the cunts will realize that they cannot mock shy/intellectual men and that there are ramifications to walking all over what they perceive as weak men. I cannot wait for the next shooting. Whoever steps up and continues the work of Mr. Cho and Mr.Sodini would be doing this feminist shithole called the USA a big favor.

    Like


  218. ””””””””””’Ray Gordon
    “Con?” Hmm, people get sued for words like that. Are the IRS jackpot winning forms (W-2G) fake as well? Aw shoot, you’re just JEALOUS of someone who can roll up 8k at the track from a $20.00 bill in two weeks, admit it. You’d be amazed at how many super-hot women want to go the track with me LOL.

    I should post some screenshots of a Sodini-like follower of a famous guru who sent me over 200 death threats by IM in a two-month period. He did it to get free instruction.

    In fact, he was in the DC LAIR, the same city that spawned this blog author.

    The gurus often use guys like this to go after their competitors as well. Looks like the whole sordid story’s about to come out.

    This is also why my next book costs fifty grand. Most of you are losers who don’t deserve 9s or 10s. The one man who does, and whoc can afford to learn, does.

    Ray Gordon
    http://www.toosmarttofail.com”””””””””

    Ray I already told people how to get tens. Save loot then drop ten k per ten to lay. Shit old news dude. Save the money.

    Like


  219. ”””””’Ray,
    Haven’t seen an original idea or concept in this blog,”””””””

    Time to start reading the blog and amybe even for comprehension. Don’t neg the blog bitch.

    Like


  220. ”””””””’Ray,
    8k at the track from a $20.00 bill in two weeks, admit it.””””””””””””””””’

    I know people stacking 25k in 2 days. Anyway, if you have some loot from track you shouldn’t have to make 8k in two weeks. Shit I made ten k back in 5 days. That is the point yea get money you got woman. The game is a fun way to spend time. Make a challenge whatever.

    Like


  221. on August 8, 2009 at 5:43 am gauisuticensis

    Damn, shit is deeeep in the PUA community.

    Like


  222. Is it guy go outside washington dc to the dc big flea check out the food stand. 25 k in two days. Oh yea and blow me.

    Like


  223. I already know how to get rich my point of contention with life is if you had a choice is it better to just leave early and not go through the motions of getting rich. I mean it does take work. Then when you see guys create million dollar companies for their lifes work and get fucked up in a divorce. It makes it even less worth while to want to put in the effort to make the dollars and have a good chance of being fucked out of your work later on in life. Prime example 2 guys I knew in nyc one investment banker fucked in divorce one with million dollar jewelery company fucked in divorce had to split business in half and if you think about a business when ya split it in half doesn’t usually work out too well especially if ya have a 100k in lawyer fees to pay back. I mean really pathetic when a woman can fuck up a guys life who has made the right moves moneywise and she just want to take advantage of that.

    Like


  224. oh yea guy and for 10k in ten days I have recently posted the full stats on that on my blog. So again that part of life is doable. The point is why do it? To what end? What the fuck are we here for?

    Like


  225. Thoe rich men didn’t know how to choose women, and didn’t believe a guy like me was worth 50k to teach them.

    Steve McNair spent 60k on a car for the woman who shot him to death.

    Finding good women is easy; I’ve been doing it forever. A guy just has to know what to look for, but I won’t tell him without getting paid first.

    My 1999 books should have made me wealthy. My 2009 books will.

    Any ALPHA male should easily understand my need to look out for myself and not give away my obviously valuable informtion.

    Like


  226. on August 8, 2009 at 9:59 am Comment_Whatever

    I said said:

    So you faced down a jilted lover who had no intention of hurting you, Nicole?

    Ghost said:

    No, but I’ve stabbed an ex FWB who jumped me and didn’t know who he was fucking with.

    Funny, at the time, I was very afraid and yet numb at the same time, and reacting according to my training.

    Being armed has nothing to do with PROVOKING a confrontation. You suggested to Hope to PROVOKE a confrontation. It’s one thing to deal with something that is happening… it’s another thing to try to cause it.

    And I suspect your probably DID provoke that confrontation… by the way.

    Since he wasn’t armed, I doubt, really, really, really doubt, he was planning on killing you. He wasn’t suicidal, and he didn’t want to kill you. That kind of puts limits on how bad things can get. More on the abusive boyfriend side of the scale than jilted ex-lover killer.

    What happened is he brought his fists to a beat-down and ran into a knife fight. Good for you, but that situation wasn’t what Hope was talking about.

    Like


  227. Yeah you know why your rich friends get screwed over? Same reason the economy went bankrupt.

    Most rich guys don’t invest their money properly. Instead, they choose to play god with the poor. For example, if I have something of value to them, but they don’t LIKE me, they’ll cut off their nose to spite their face, just to ensure they don’t lift me economically. With those they like, they do the reverse.

    Many ex-wealthy men wouldn’t have loaned money for medicine or groceries to the poor, let alone purcahse from them or invest in them. Once I realized this, I stopped giving away free information, as this was creating a moral hazard that led to my previous work being ripped off.

    I can’t count the number of wealthy WHINERS I get now who try to pretend to be “almost” ready to purcahse, which is why I don’t even TALK to people who don’t first kick me $250.00, no questions asked, and for nothing in return other than my attention.

    If you want to rid your life of losers and timewasters, you need a policy like that. Wealthy men want to go to the front of the line because they hve money, yet get mad when expected to part with it, or get back to the end of the line.

    Tune them out as you would any loser. If it’s not worth it to them to solve what is obviously a huge problem, they deserve to be fucked over in divorce court, must as they believe other poor deserve to be that way.

    Such is life in a selfish world.

    Now if anyone could spare me $1,000 or so for betting money, feel free to look me up and send it to me by Paypal.

    Like


  228. ”””””’Ray Gordon,
    Finding good women is easy; I’ve been doing it forever. A guy just has to know what to look for, but I won’t tell him without getting paid first.””””””””

    Yea figured that out to. Found a good woman. Next.

    Like


  229. Nicole´s new avatar, the “Ghost of Nicole”, raises an important theological question:

    – do ghosts inherit the fatness of the human body of the person they represent?

    Like


  230. I guess I should be making money ray for helping folks as I could help people replicate my perfect life. Even though it is still not good enough for me.

    Like


  231. ”””””Ray Gordon,
    Most rich guys don’t invest their money properly.”””””””’

    I will agree with that statement. The type of people who get to a million dollars a lot of times are the save money month by month and eventually get there type. They may also be the workaholic type. They just don’t know what to invest a million dollars in to start making a 100k a month. Plus when they get to the mil they can’t stop working on the business it is all they are so imagination to be able to incorporate other hands into the pir that would start making money off the hours of other peoples work is just not there.

    Lot of minor successful people get there on their own through some extra special snowflake qualities. These qualities cannot be passed to other people. They are the only one with this qaulity. They like it this way because they like being the one who made themselves successful. It is hard for these people to leverage money off that quality because of selfish internal reasons. If they leverage off other people it makes them less needed in the equation so that their special snowflake skills aren’t needed anymore. It is like they are firing themselves from working even though it might be a benefit.

    Took my wife to actually show what it looks like when you have no desire to be a special snowflake in regards to how you made the money. The end goal was her goal not the finesse of getting there. She uses finesse in her relationships not in her making of money. The money is something that is not the meaning of her life. The people in her life are the meaning of her life. So she just put the money into shit that makes monthly money and has all the time in the world to do other things.

    Like


  232. Comment_Whatever said, “Being armed has nothing to do with PROVOKING a confrontation.”

    Nor does making it clear to people around you that you are armed and willing to use lethal force to defend yourself.

    I don’t need to say a word or even look straight at a person for them to know that. It’s obvious from my appearance, the company I keep, and sometimes the actual firearm itself being at my waist.

    I assure you that nobody I’ve encountered who knows my lifestyle feels “provoked”.

    “You suggested to Hope to PROVOKE a confrontation.”

    No, I suggested something that someone who knows fuck all about the dark side of life, and only saw anyone get shot or stabbed in a movie, would interpret as a provokation.

    “It’s one thing to deal with something that is happening… it’s another thing to try to cause it.”

    :: shaking my head ::

    Did you have a dad?

    “And I suspect your probably DID provoke that confrontation… by the way.”

    Suspect as much as you like. As I said, if you need a villain, I’m happy to oblige.

    …but does this tell you that getting into a scrap with me would be a good idea or a bad idea?

    “Since he wasn’t armed, I doubt, really, really, really doubt, he was planning on killing you.”

    I didn’t feel like getting beat down or raped that day either. You’ll have to excuse me for not being willing to wait and see whether or not he was going to kill me during the fight.

    LOL!

    Seriously, someone needs to go kick your dad in the shins.

    “He wasn’t suicidal, and he didn’t want to kill you.”

    Oh, so you were there, and you’re telepathic. Nice to know. Guess what I’m thinking right now.

    “That kind of puts limits on how bad things can get. More on the abusive boyfriend side of the scale than jilted ex-lover killer.”

    He wasn’t my boyfriend. He made that very clear the entire time we were seeing each other. When I ended it, I assumed that he wouldn’t care.

    …but then I suppose he did. Oh well. Perhaps if I were a telepath like yourself, I would have known in advance that his “friends with benefits” game was just a cover for some control issues or something. Silly me.

    “What happened is he brought his fists to a beat-down and ran into a knife fight.”

    Yes, he was an idiot. It is as unwise to bring fists to a knife fight as it is to bring a knife to a gun fight.

    “Good for you, but that situation wasn’t what Hope was talking about.”

    Well see, those of us who aren’t telepaths like yourself, like to prevent a bad situation rather than wait and see if the situation is going to get bad before making moves to keep our heads attached to our bodies.

    You sound like those bleeding heart feminists who think that gun control will stop crime.

    Dude, wake up.

    Like


  233. on August 8, 2009 at 12:18 pm Marcus Aureliette

    Joe:
    I cannot wait for the next shooting.

    Hope you’re right in the line of fire when it happens.

    Like


  234. Comment_Whatever, since your dad didn’t teach you why boys shouldn’t hit girls, and that the whole world isn’t whatever gated community with bored security guards you were raised in, here’s a little lesson that should hopefully keep you from getting stabbed or shot by some female soldier, veteran, martial artist, Moroccan, Libyan, or whathaveyou.

    Boys should not hit girls in general, because boys are usually substantially stronger and more combat capable. Different things also happen in the male brain and the female brain during combat.

    After the gutt fight-or-flight instinct, a male becomes enraged as an initial reaction, whereas a female usually becomes hysterical as an initial reaction. This is how some predators manage to get women they abduct to do stupid things like get in the car or “flail”, thus opening their torso, neck, and head to a strike.

    It takes considerable training for a woman who is not particularly “high T” to suppress her hysteria enough to skip to the rage, and then to control and channel that rage, as a good male fighter would do. This does nothing however, to actually stop the hysteria. It shortens it and allows a woman to deal with it, but it does not completely get rid of it.

    So when fighting a male, you are generally going to be fighting someone without a lot of hysteria. When fighting a female, she is going to have bouts of panic and hysteria for millesecond intervals throughout the fight, even if she is a very good martial artist.

    What this means is that a man might want to kick your ass really bad, but a woman is going to be trying to kill you if she can. You are fortunate if you are fighting with a female martial artist with the presence of mind to merely maim you instead.

    Women are all crazy psychos if you push us into a corner or threaten our offspring. That’s every last one of us. In some cultures it is/was taboo for a woman to touch a weapon for this very reason. In such cultures, they were not even allowed metal forks or knives to eat with.

    In the real world, fights usually start without any warning. There is no time to talk trash. There is no time to posture or threaten. Just as it was in my case with my ex bitch, there was only my telling him to leave me alone, in a lobby full of other soldiers and sailors, and him grabbing me and trying to drag me off.

    As most fights, it only lasted seconds. I dropped my weight (120 lbs. at the time) to make it harder for him to transport me, and attempted to squirm out of his hands. He held on as best as he could, but realized he was failing, and raised his hand to punch me. I rolled, and he punched the pool table.

    On the same pool table was the plate and utensils that one of the people in the lobby was holding, and had stupidly dropped when the fight started because their initial reaction was to back up and see what was going on.

    One of those utensils was a steak knife.

    From where I was, I grabbed it, and stabbed the forearm of the hand that was holding a handful of my uniform. He dropped me and backed off, and *then* I stood up and was facing him with the knife. Then everybody around was clear as to what was going on, and were ready to kick his ass.

    At that point, I was indeed provoking him. I asked him if he wanted some more.

    He looked around, and decided he didn’t.

    Even though we were on a military base, and there was a room full of witnesses, a sort of unspoken “guy rule” is that such personal matters aren’t brought to the Captain. Fortunately for him, and perhaps for me, if there might have been someone like you advising the Captain, nobody in the room had a stick up their ass.

    Everybody gets a little crazy sometimes. You deal with it on the spot, and don’t make drama. Drama provokes people.

    So he lived to try again sometime when someone with a stick up their ass was in the dining hall. I was armed with a heavy Maglight, and my raising it was menacing enough for him to back off and allow me to get up and face him. Because of who was there, it didn’t matter that he had backed off or that I didn’t take it further, and didn’t want to make drama for something a call home would solve.

    After all the legal crap was done, someone told me that if that ever happens to me again, I should injure the guy to the point of disabling him, so he’ll be out of the military instead of just getting a sexual harassment charge.

    That’s not how I roll though.

    Now I’m sure some of you are going to have something to say about the fact that he did get a slap on the wrist at all. I understand some of you think I don’t deseve to live because I’m a fat ugly crazy cunt.

    …and you are welcome to your opinions.

    However, if any of you was really really drunk many times, and shagged me for a year, and then I got tired of your necrophillic sperm dumping and left…and let’s just say you were really really horny, and couldn’t find someone else to screw for a few months, would you:

    a. rub one off?

    b. try to drag me to a dark corner and have your way with me?

    If by some streak of insanity, you attempted option b and got stabbed in the arm for it, would you feel like:

    a. trying it again when there were fewer people around?

    b. checking into psychiatric care and severely masturbating to Playboy until you were cured of your affliction of moderately weighted butch Black women fetishism?

    Crazy guys are crazy. Women, especially those in male dominated professions, or who are away from their family/protection network have always had to deal with crazy men. Plenty of men have had to deal with crazy women too. That’s just life.

    If someone is a real deal absolute nutbar with no care of their own lives, then there is nothing you can do to stop them from trying something incredibly stupid…and you may just have to be the one to put them out of their misery.

    …but most people, even many crazy people, are not *that* crazy.

    Most, if they know they could lose their life, or at least not succeed in killing their target before their target or an associate kills them, will back the fuck off.

    I don’t bank on exceptions. I made the mistake of covering up my capabilities long enough for someone to convince themselves that I was weaker than I am, and that the first time I effectively defended myself from them was pure luck.

    Luck had nothing to do with it. It was my training.

    Anyone who wants to get involved with me should know that I am trained, armed, and willing to defend myself with lethal force, if necessary.

    I have not had problems with guys like that since.

    Like


  235. lol I think we have our first case of Internet Tough Chick. You’re causing a lot of harm with this comment Nicole. You’re misleading women into thinking they can defend themselves against physical assault by a man, that goes for majority of guys as well. Every experienced fighter will tell you, avoid physical confrontation at all costs, apply violence ONLY as a last resort. If someone tries to attack you, RUN, run like the wind. Scream for help, try to call the police.

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  236. on August 8, 2009 at 12:55 pm Comment_Whatever

    Ghost, people are different. Threatening a punk you had sex with a few times who is looking to have a beat-down is DIFFERENT from threatening your semi-suicidal ex-husband of many years.

    Those are TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE. They are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

    I don’t need to be ‘telepathic’ to realize that people are different. That threatening punks is relatively safe and usually useful, and threatening suicidal ex-lovers is NOT safe and NOT usually useful.

    I thought Hope should get a gun to. HOWEVER, I, unlike you, thought it would be a good idea if she didn’t tell him about it.

    Like


  237. My above comment applies to both women and men BTW. The majority do not have what it takes to come out unscathed out of a physical altercation.

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  238. Funky, can most men outrun a bullet?

    Like


  239. Comment, who is talking about threatening anyone?

    Again, this is not a fucking movie.

    Like


  240. on August 8, 2009 at 1:05 pm Comment_Whatever

    If it makes you feel any better Ghost, I lost most of my saved money when the Oil Cabal took oil from 150 to 30.

    I know all the financial talk because I did have a sizable amount of money(that I made myself) for a good while.

    If things go well, maybe I’ll have it again. But that is still quite a while away.

    Like


  241. Dam comment threw it all on red eh god dam. Good feeling though suppose except after lol

    Scared of actually finishing working eh

    he he he

    Like


  242. “Funky, can most men outrun a bullet?”

    You will then deal with the law, and your concience, for taking a man’s life, self defence or not.

    Like


  243. Well, Comment, if you have any daughters, teach them how to fight, and make sure their boyfriends are aware that if they fuck up and your daughter doesn’t fix their attitude, you will.

    Works much better than telling women not to bother learning how to effectively defend themselves, and play sitting duck so as not to “threaten” anyone, because women should be equal but not accountable.

    Part of personal responsibility and accountability is awareness that none of us is even entitled to personal safety. If you get it without earning it, that’s your luck, not your right.

    I paid my price for *pretending* to be weak. I’d have paid a much higher one for actually being so.

    Like


  244. Funky says, “You will then deal with the law, and your concience, for taking a man’s life, self defence or not.”

    If I was that afraid of the law or of death, or even descended from such wastes of oxygen, I wouldn’t have survived infancy.

    Like


  245. I’ve met people like you before. You’ve never ever been in a situation where your life was REALLY at stake, if you were you would not make these types of comments. Anybody that’s ever been in the armed forces or law enforcement and faced a life and death situation will tell you this. Your talk is nothing but cheap words, especially in this format. Frankly you’re no better than that looser Sodini.

    Like


  246. on August 8, 2009 at 4:05 pm Comment_Whatever

    Gunslinger said:

    Dam comment threw it all on red eh god dam. Good feeling though suppose except after lol

    Scared of actually finishing working eh

    he he he

    It was a more prolonged process than that. I was tired of wildly changing fortune at that point, but several things blew-up one-after-another as the markets went into full ‘let’s blow a hundred billion dollars’ manipulation mode.

    One of the reasons that I’m leaving is so that the oh-so-wise commoners who thought nothing of running up a debt(the 800 BILLION dollar bail-out) they intend ME to pay back…. even though the money was used directly against me… can heroically discover the value of Paying Their Own Way…

    I imagine they will whine a whole lot about all the things they promised themselves. That I was supposed to pay for.

    Like


  247. Funky, when someone we both know is or was a soldier or a police officer chimes in to tell you how right you are, let me know.

    Until then, go fuck yourself…and while you’re fapping to your humiliation, have a look at the gallery of my old site.

    Like


  248. ”””””””Comment_whatever,
    One of the reasons that I’m leaving is so that the oh-so-wise commoners who thought nothing of running up a debt(the 800 BILLION dollar bail-out) they intend ME to pay back…. even though the money was used directly against me… can heroically discover the value of Paying Their Own Way…”””””””””’

    lol yea that is about right.

    Like


  249. on August 11, 2009 at 2:15 pm Martian Bachelor

    Ross Jeffries, a pioneer of game based on “neurolinguistic programming”[NLP],
    used to have it out with Steele on usenet back in the day.

    Ha! Seems so predictable in retrospect… I had it out w/Jeffries, too, back in the early days of the Weird Wide Web, some dozen years ago. I had a site up then; this was before blogs, so they were static pages. I’d previously subscribed to Steele’s email spambot for a little while, ya know to monitor what he was peddling, and had read some of Jeffries and other speed seductionist stuff, not without a little fascination. It’s easy to see how their material can be seductive — they make it all sound so easy, and their message is falling into a vacuum of societal neglect (or a sea of misinformation) about exactly how men are supposed to get their sexual needs met now that not even marriage guarantees a reliable supply of even bad, married sex.

    I was already well-versed in what NLP and TA (transactional analysis, a flavor of social psychology) were about, so I naturally thought I had at least written intelligently and thoughtfully, if not somewhat critically. At that time, my view and fundamental problem with the genre was pretty much that of Warren Farrell’s, namely that it was all about teaching men the work they had to do to earn their way to equality with women, and thus they were sorta Missing The Point Entirely. The genre also seemed too much like a re-run of Hefner’s basic scam, which consisted of him enriching himself monstorously at the expense of men by selling them their fantasy of having a harem of hot naked babes on the cheap.

    Anyway, out of the blue I got a pretty heated email from Jeffries, who had stumbled across my website. Yes, it was quite contentious from the get-go, as the exchange went back and forth in kindofa tug of war fashion a couple of times. I was not impressed with his superficial knowledge of TA, and if he was trying to use his mastery of NLP to persuade me he was even partially right about the underlying basics, it was an epic fail, as he seemed to misinterpret (or deliberately ignore) virtually everything I said. I guess he’d been at this for quite some time with Steele.

    Is NLP worth anything?

    I think two of the seminal books by its creators, “Frogs Into Princes” (Bandler & Grinder) and “Using Your Brain – for a CHANGE” (Bandler), are well worth reading, maybe even revelatory in some sense, depending on where you are. In spite of the title of especially the first book, neither is in any sense PUA type stuff as we now know it.

    For the TA perspective, I especially like Eric Berne’s classics “What Do You Say After You Say Hello?” and “Sex In Human Loving”, the exact same disclaimer applying.

    Like


  250. You’re all a bunch of fucking losers, just like George Sodini!

    Like


  251. The real criminal here is R. Don Steele who dirtied up George Sodini’s google search results with his lame hypotheses.

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  252. Another senseless violence remembered… I hope the families of the innocent victims have come to some point of peace.

    Like


  253. on March 8, 2010 at 11:05 am Obstinance Works

    Now I see why he killed himself. How he held out so heroically long, I don’t know.

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  254. If game can only get you women 2 points higher, then attempting to learn game is of no value for anyone below a 5,
    it is better to get lots of money and bang escorts 7 and up, because no woman under a 7 is worth doing anyway.

    Like


  255. […] in a shithole in southern Oregon. The closest George Sodini ever got to the seduction community was attending a seminar by R. Don Steele, who most PUAs regard as a huckster and a joke – and considering that most PUAs themselves […]

    Like