Western Institutions Are Abandoning Beta Males

I’ve lovingly detailed how the institution of marriage, the cultural zeitgeist, and the government have it in for beta males, and now the matrifocal rot has spread into traditional stalwarts like the Catholic Church.

The news – and as it happens, there is some real news about all this – is that this sophisticated game of dumbing down the costs of Lust has left many people disarmed at what may be the worst possible time. Such was the plain meaning of a conference at Princeton last weekend on “The Social Costs of Pornography.” The Witherspoon Institute and two other groups organized a gathering that for once truly deserves the adjective “groundbreaking” – an unprecedented assortment of psychiatrists, psychologists, authors, scientists, and professors of sociology, psychology, law, and philosophy, summoned from around the nation to tally up and explain, in particular, the human toll of internet pornography.

Just for starters, another outstanding lie of our time – that pornography itself is a victimless, harmless pursuit – has been definitively laid to rest by these researchers. In an age of so many fake victims, they offered a torrent of data about real ones. Lawyers reported that a growing percentage of divorces now come from pornography addiction. Therapists reported that frustrated wives and girlfriends gave the ultimatum, “it’s your porn or me,” only to have husbands and boyfriends choose the former – with family trauma and breakup the entirely predictable results. All this is to say nothing of the children and adolescents dragooned into the “industry” via drugs, prostitution, and rape; or of the many other children and adolescents who have been inadvertently or deliberately exposed to internet pornography as their first template, with consequences that even the most jaded psychologists and related practitioners cannot yet imagine.

This article about the consequences of lust — porn in particular — was written for a Catholic magazine, and the study was conducted in part by a Catholic-leaning independent research group. If priests are delivering the same message in their homilies seen in print articles like this, then the beta male has truly become society’s whipping boy. There is no sanctuary for the beta when his last outpost of cross-gender social support — organized religion — has abandoned him. He still has the military… barely.

The reason longstanding traditional religious institutions like the Catholic Church are failing has less to do with growing secularism than with its turn away from a patriarchal message toward a feminized one. To blame porn for all that is afflicting Western social adhesion is to miss the forest for the trees. Instead of pathologizing beta males for turning to porn en masse, the church should be extolling wives to push away from the table. An empathetic understanding of the beta’s plight would recognize the shift in power dynamics in modern courtship and marriage — women are getting fatter and pickier at the same time, putting more of them under the threshold of attractiveness for the average man and disincentivizing him to work hard at making a relationship or marriage happy and loving. Furthermore, women hold ALL the cards once the man says “I do”, giving him absolutely zero leverage to conduct his marital affairs with masculine gusto, for fear of the law in collaboration with the amoral opportunism of ex-wives flaying the last ounce of spirit from his body.

No wonder husbands are choosing porn over their fat and psychopathic wives, who lash them within inches of their lives.

The Catholic Church, like so many other institutions of the modern West, forgot one very basic tenet along the way to post-1968 enlightenment — a woman’s sexual desire is more dangerous than a man’s, and must therefore be subject to more forceful moral teachings constraining it. (Note: I speak as an objective outside observer who sees the writing on the wall. Personally, I will continue to pursue my hedonistic lifestyle knowing full well that if all men followed my example the entire edifice would crumble to the ground in short order.)

Here’s my advice to the Church if you want to become relevant again: Encourage your priests to emphasize the deadly sin of gluttony. Shame women into being considerate of their husbands’ sexual needs. Impress upon men their duty to act in accordance with their heretofore smothered masculine essence. Bitch less about men’s aggressive sexual energy and shift the focus to women’s insidious sexual elan. Preach to mobilize action to change the laws so marriage stops being a game rigged against the interests of men.

In a word, become more patriarchal. It’s what the West needs right now. A belt of Anglo-infused XY TNT wrapped around a message delivered in a windowless van right at the steps of city hall. It’s either that, or eventually succumb to the really nasty patriarchal hordes of the lesser cultures slamming battering rams into your gleaming glass postmodern styled fortress walls.





Comments


  1. The Catholic Church has always disapproved of pornography, even though today it’s the Protestant fundamentalists who are more closely associated with the anti-porn movement.

    Peter

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  2. I’m not surprised it was held at Princeton, Old Nassau is one of the least sexy of the Ivies, with only 50% of students reporting sex in the past year, and the students sorting themselves out into subcultures. It’s pretty explicit that the women there are into Looks (Obviously), Money (Inherited Wealth, what 20-year-old has his own business that can pay for a 10-day Caribbean vacation?), and Power (once again, Familial, Inherited). “Smart women are whores too” is what led me to “all women are whores”, but I still have the Graduate School corollary: “Fat smart women who think too much are, however, not whores. However, they are fat.”

    Princeton Catholics, incidentally, are also probably the last non-slutty women in America, but they’re irritating too because except for the truly “saving it for marriage crowd” they simply hem and haw about sex with the betas and then give it up for the Lacrosse Team, which makes their Catholic dogma view of sex just another variation on “Yes I do but not With You.”

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  3. Jeepers!

    Catholics?!?

    Boring.

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  4. Love the Floyd reference.

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  5. Incidentally, the roster of that “private consultation” (not a conference) is a bunch of “Ban It!” Potter Stewart paleo-cons light-years away from any of the pro-feminist anti-porn theorists like Gail Dines or Robert Jensen. Those are old, white pre-sexual revolution men who got married in 1941 and regard sexual desire as something experienced by Not Our Kind of People, Dear.

    I mean, they had two kids with Hortense, Robert (Lawrenceville Prep, then Princeton) and Elaine (Miss Porter’s School, then marriage). Beings from another world–marriage works for the WASP elite, like the Forbes. Why can’t you make it work, Little Man? (Hans Fallada’s ghost sends his regards.)

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  6. Acquiescence to feminism is just one problem of the Catholic Church. Maybe not even so much feminism, but a feminization of their style. Everything that comes from the Church’s hierarchy is worded in such a weepy, treacly way. I can’t stand it.

    It’s like listening to a senile auntie. “My heart weeps for the tragic loss of precious life…” “it is with great sorrow that I speak about the need for compassion for the…”

    Shut the fuck up with the compassion already! this is the same institution that raised armies that slew every last Jannissary who was trying to surrender to Sobieski’s Hussars at Vienna!

    Which leads me into the other problem, which is the Church’s ecumenism. The Church seems to have abandoned its role as a Defender of the Faith. Instead, you have bishops in the US lobbying for more third world immigration, against the death penalty, and against immigration law enforcement. Even more absurdly, you have the Church actively promoting non-Christian immigration into Europe and exhorting against “xenophobia.”

    It’s enough to make anybody quit going to church.

    All of the above doesn’t negate the fact that there are many churches that reject this crap and still preach that old time religion. But you probably won’t find them among yuppie Metro DC parishes.

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  7. Instead, you have bishops in the US lobbying for more third world immigration, against the death penalty, and against immigration law enforcement. Even more absurdly, you have the Church actively promoting non-Christian immigration into Europe and exhorting against “xenophobia.”

    PA, one must remember that per the interpretations of some in the hierarchy of the Catholic Church, promoting so-called “open borders”, lobbying for the end of the death penalty, and fighting xenophobia is at the heart of the Catholic social teaching. In other words, by supporting the issues that you listed above, the Church is fulfilling its role as Defender of the Faith, but in your cases, the portions of the faith that you may simply disagree upon.

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  8. I agree with the post, almost entirely. Furthermore, while I’m not a Catholic, I am an evangelical, and I would point out that these ideas are indeed around in (some) evangelical circles. (Notwithstanding that feminism has infiltrated most every Western institution, if you find a conservative evangelical church you probably will hear talk about a woman’s sexual duty to her husband.)

    Hence:

    All of the above doesn’t negate the fact that there are many churches that reject this crap and still preach that old time religion. But you probably won’t find them among yuppie Metro DC parishes.

    I agree with this. Plus:

    Shut the fuck up with the compassion already! this is the same institution that raised armies that slew every last Jannissary who was trying to surrender to Sobieski’s Hussars at Vienna!

    Yeah, that.

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  9. church long ago became less alpha and began to wonder why male attendance is at an all-time low…..and as the obesity rate rises, women wonder why thin girls who do anal and Ass to Mouth, even if only in digital for the man watching, are more preferrable than their wife with whom they have sex maybe 1-2 times a month ….preferrable to the rabble at home, the kids with iPhones and $100 jeans while the man razes his soul at a life-crushing job……

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  10. Amen, brother!

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  11. Well, David, if you thing that the Church’s role is to promote the collapse of civilization and an ethnocide of its faithful….

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  12. i just gizzed my pants

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  13. Dude,

    This is when you’re at your most brilliant.

    Excellent post, one that almost makes me wish that America–like Europe–was overrun with Arabs/Islam.

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  14. on December 23, 2008 at 1:26 pm Cannon's Canon

    I pay $50 a quarter for a Brazzers membership and consider it money well-spent.

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  15. Well, David, if you thing that the Church’s role is to promote the collapse of civilization and an ethnocide of its faithful….

    Well, that’s the thing. If you don’t believe that those policies will bring the collapse of civilization, one will continue to espouse them, especially if it adheres to Church teachings. As for the ethnocide of its faithful, you must remember that just because the Church started with Europeans doesn’t mean that it will end with Europeans. Just ask the various non-white Catholics who practice the faith around the world.

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  16. I pay $50 a quarter for a Brazzers membership and consider it money well-spent.

    I agree, it’s one of the better porn sites, and has a good ratio of good scenes per dollar spent, IMHO.

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  17. on December 23, 2008 at 1:33 pm Wilson Pickett

    Bravo for this post. Women should be exhorted to “reach for your mate instead of your plate”.

    That being said, you glossed over any suggestion that porn might have noxious effects. Like to see you address that.

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  18. women wonder why thin girls who do anal and Ass to Mouth

    I prefer the chubbier white girls with big asses over the thin girls who look really creepy with large fake tits and exposed ribs. As for ass to mouth, it’s one of those things that looks good on film, but doesn’t translate well to real life due to risk of infection and the fact that cock that’s been up an ass will generally reek.

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  19. As for the ethnocide of its faithful, you must remember that just because the Church started with Europeans doesn’t mean that it will end with Europeans. Just ask the various non-white Catholics who practice the faith around the world.

    On a worldwide basis the Catholic Church already is predominately nonwhite and is steadily becoming more so.

    Peter

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  20. Roissy,
    Don’t be so sure about eminent collapse yet. Beta males are busy learning the truth about women and I for one will not let our civilization go without a fight.

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  21. Whites made the Church what it is. Its theological depth and the magnificence of its buildings, music and art will never be maintained once it is dominated by third-worlders. I hope the resurgence in popularity of the Latin mass corresponds with a resurgence in conservatism in Catholic circles.

    Roissy has it right about Catholic women. By and large they are a frumpy lot (the devout ones at any rate).

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  22. The health of a religion can be measured by how well it appeals to and channels the energy of alpha males.

    Another reason why women should not be allowed to be priests. Christianity is already feminized enough.

    Allowing married priests however would be a big boost to the Church. Replacing gays with family men would be a huge step in the right direction of getting men back on board with the church.

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  23. The health of a religion can be measured by how well it appeals to and channels the energy of alpha males.

    That’s very well put.

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  24. I’m leery of any threats to excess and unfeasable sexual desire. Lack of harmless outlets for certain impulses leads to real perversion, not just imagined ones.

    Without porn, I’d be one of those creepy ladies at the fish shop asking for their biggest octopus.

    I think they’re overreacting about the porn addiction though. I couldn’t see turning down a guy just because he only had 10 prehensile appendages. I’m sure there’s more going on than a guy suddenly preferring porn over his wife. Most of those guys were messed up to begin with, and she thought she’d change him.

    Maybe he was one of those guys who wastes a woman’s prime years with the intention to replace her once she turns 35. Heheheh…

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  25. is christianity all that alpha to begin with? is any religion? the whole idea behind organized religion is that there is one leader and whole bunch of followers.

    ‘the lord is my shepherd…’
    ‘blessed are the meek..’
    none of that sounds terribly alpha.

    the real question is this: considering how much of our lives is spent interacting with the opposite sex, pursuing and maintaining relationships, raising children, etc., do a bunch of people who have taken a vow of celibacy really have all that much to tell us about how to live our lives?

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  26. is christianity all that alpha to begin with?

    If you read some of the teachings in the Bible, one could argue that Jesus was teaching people how to be “beta pushovers” and chumps. As an example, read the Beatitudes.

    Allowing married priests however would be a big boost to the Church. Replacing gays with family men would be a huge step in the right direction of getting men back on board with the church.

    Given the experiences of other Protestant faiths, married priests don’t solve the problem in the long-term. I’m not against married priests, but the problem is that the pay would never be high enough to attract alpha males, and the wives of the men who are attracted wouldn’t be the kind that most men would desire. In other words, more betas with ugly beta wives which just chases away more young men.

    I think they’re overreacting about the porn addiction though.

    It depends on the circumstances. I’ve noted that men with game tend to view porn and masturbation as cheap tricks, while men like myself view porn as superior to the real thing. As with all things, while moderation is key, I think there is a subset of my like myself who can become so adjusted to porn that real women just don’t work.

    So for your average married male, even if your wife is a thin 5, and the girls in porn are “7 + makeup”, I don’t think that there’s anything in the world that will make your wife more alluring. So why have sex with something that’s failing and requires too much work to put into a functioning state when you can masturbate and achieve better orgasms on your own schedule. Besides, even if you’re not having sex with her, you can keep her around for the emotional benefits and hugs or maintain some semblance of a sensible home if one has children.

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  27. Both the female boot-licking Catholics and,most surprisingly,Roissy,have left out the most salient element in the whole porn tempest.It is this;if women were not so enthusiastic about displaying themselves for fun or money or a mixture of both, we wouldnt have a porn “problem now,would we?
    The reason we have so much porn is that there are a whole lotta ladies who just love to tease and “shag” and get paid for it into the bargain.

    The idea that girls are “dragooned” into slutdom via drugs, prostitution ,or rape is beneath contempt.One genre within porn which is very amply represented is so-called “amateur” porn.These are housewives(Catholic housewives?) coeds and various “girls-next-door” who engage in some of the most outrageous behaviour simply for thrills.

    The Catholic admonition,”no sex outside of marriage”, has played right into the hands of every two-bit, third rate,prostitute-in-denial,i.e. housewife.These Catholic clowns fail to take into consideration that if you if you remove the pursuit of pleasure from sex you are left with only the pursuit of money,a dubious accomplishment.And also that marriage has gotten out of reach of an increasingly large number of not only average guys, but above average guys as well.

    Recall that not so long ago most people got married in their teens.Today this is no longer possible;and I would add it has nothing to do with porn,and a lot to do with a skewed economy buttressed by female greed.Postponing sex until your eighteen or nineteen is one thing,postponing it until you earn at least a Masters Degree so that you can earn the right to buy a suitably priced bride/mercenary/whore and with her, the parchment with the Church’s imprimatur licensing you to have sex, is another.

    Also, consider that while the “no sex outside of marriage” crowd is adamant about this prohibition,it doesnt say much about sex WITHIN marriage.Another boon to mercenary whoredom.According to this fucked-up doctrine, a mercenary who sells herself to the highest bidder and then nonchalantly denies that bidder the services bargained for,or,who wields her sexual favors as a weapon,threatening to withdraw them if the kitchen isnt remodeled or hubby wont purchase her an expensive pair of Italian shoes,has technically done nothing to transgress the moral code.But a sixteen year old boy who jerks off to a PLAYBOY centerfold is headed straight toward perdition.

    Finally, these holy jackasses have conveniently refrained from mentioning anything about what has rightfully been called “female pornography”.Romance novels,soap-operas,trashy “talk shows” and scandal sheets of all kinds.

    No Roissy we dont need any TNT.All we need to do is take away the tax immunity-a subsidy really-that these worthless parasites enjoy.Then our useless clerics can starve and beg for alms,right next to the hookers they have so much in common with.

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  28. a woman’s sexual desire is more dangerous than a man’s,

    this gets to a core theme of this site and Roissy’s philosophy — fear of womens’ sexuality, with the dislike and fear of women that naturally accompanies it. As in the previous post on stalkers, where Roissy more or less directly confesses his fear of women who are good in bed — women who are orgasmic are liable to morph into terrifying “stalkers”.

    Women have gained lots of power relative to men, and they can and do damage men by using that power in selfish ways. Which is understandably a frightening prospect. But a reestablishment of medieval patriarchy is hardly a feasible or a desirable solution. Better to orient both sexes more toward partnership and less towards endless narcisstic selfishness.

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  29. Since the intellectual level of the readers here is generally, for a blog, pretty high, there’s a book written about this very phenomenon. It’s called, “The Church, Impotent: The Feminization of Christianity” by Leon Podles.

    Here’s the Amazon link for those who might be interested. http://www.amazon.com/Church-Impotent-Feminization-Christianity/dp/1890626198

    Suffice to say, Christianity is on a death spiral in the West (not so in the 3rd world), unless it can appeal to young Western males. The only churches where I see young men tend to be evangelical, charismatic churches. Whenever you walk into a Catholic or Orthodox church these days, it tends to be a herd of old women. Orthodox churches in Russia are especially bad, I’d say… it’s 80% old women for the services. The only young guys are people like me, that are just touring about to look at the artwork and architecture.

    Islam does have an appeal to young males — it’s patriarchal and aggressive in its ideologies. It’s future success will prove darwinism as applied to religion.

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  30. Islam does have an appeal to young males — it’s patriarchal and aggressive in its ideologies.

    I don’t see the advantage of a patriarchal religion to me.

    Orthodox churches in Russia are especially bad

    A patriarchal religion in a patriarchal state still can’t appeal to men? If Orthodox Churches are a holding pen for old women, then we may have to look at another source as to why young men are uninterested in religion. We could always go to the old fallback of high IQs and diminished attendance among elite circles for Church…

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  31. beta pantywaist:
    this gets to a core theme of this site and Roissy’s philosophy — fear of womens’ sexuality,

    hint: rightly acknowledging the greater potency and consequences of female sexuality does not equal fear of it.
    ya dumbass.

    As in the previous post on stalkers, where Roissy more or less directly confesses his fear of women who are good in bed

    can you possibly be any stupider?
    rhetorical.

    women who are orgasmic are liable to morph into terrifying “stalkers”.

    so are younger women, but you don’t see me advocating a lifestyle of pursuing more stable, older women at the expense of younger women.

    Women have gained lots of power relative to men, and they can and do damage men by using that power in selfish ways. Which is understandably a frightening prospect.

    or maybe it’s just a rational level-headed non-fear-based response to market conditions.
    you know, like how you might avoid buying beef that was recently tainted with mad cow disease.
    or regret reading comments by people such as yourself with a proven track record of deliberate miscontruing dumbassery.

    But a reestablishment of medieval patriarchy is hardly a feasible or a desirable solution.

    a medieval patriarchy is what we see swarming the shores of the west, soon to the chagrin of those feminists who happily participated in the neutering of the founding beta stock of their nations. what i argue is in the interest of preserving the west is plain to those unlike yourself who can read what i write without itching to ride their lame anti-roissy hobbyhorses — specifically, bringing balance to the force.

    Better to orient both sexes more toward partnership and less towards endless narcisstic selfishness.

    nice platitude, hallmarkboy. now let’s see you address an actual issue.

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  32. on December 23, 2008 at 2:49 pm Dave from Hawaii

    this gets to a core theme of this site and Roissy’s philosophy — fear of womens’ sexuality, with the dislike and fear of women that naturally accompanies it.

    Garbage…written with the typical conceit and hubris of the female superiority complex that our culture has indoctrinated 99% of all females with.

    Men don’t fear women’s sexuality…we fear the feminist constructed State that empowers women at the expense of men. Cuckoldry, adultery, extortion, parental alienation and enslavement of men via the child support and alimony divorce industry are what we fear…and for damn good reason.

    Recognizing and pointing out that the unleashing of female sexuality from cultural restraint and rigid codes of conduct that shame women into not abusing the power of their sexuality is not the same thing as fearing that sexuality.

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  33. Just like EVERY OTHER INSTITUTION, once you let women in power and all them the ability to start making decisions, the institution gets ALL FUCKED UP (Also see: United States post woman’s suffrage).

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  34. Christianity is very “alpha” when practiced by struggling or oppressed people, or strong people with a sense of mission. It teaches righteousness, duty, forebearance, sacrifice, and purity of the soul. In the right circumstances, those are very powerful motivators for Alpha males.

    Christianity as practiced by the Western man up until the 1960s in Western Europe and the Anglosphere was always very much a cross & sword kind of faith.

    What seems to have happened in the West over the past 50 years or so is that Christianity had on one end jettissoned all that “god stuff” and became Left/Liberalism, and on the other end, its practitioners had jettissoned a sense of peoplehood and became the feminized churches of today.

    In both extremes, Christianity fell victim to worldly universalism and became a suicide cult, which is what pure Christianity had always been.

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  35. and here i thought that the catholic church became irrelevant because it is so goddamn boring.

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  36. PA says, “Christianity as practiced by the Western man up until the 1960s in Western Europe and the Anglosphere was always very much a cross & sword kind of faith.”

    If that worked well, it would still be so. In fact, in places where it does work well, it is still so.

    Problem is that men like my dad have been alienated from the larger institutions because he’s not into thought policing, but is very much into self defense.

    Certain problems are inherent in a belief system with a Santa Claus deity. That it can be easily hijacked by social engineers and profiteers, is but one of them.

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  37. Here’s my advice to the Church if you want to become relevant again: Encourage your priests to emphasize the deadly sin of gluttony. Shame women into being considerate of their husbands’ sexual needs. Impress upon men their duty to act in accordance with their heretofore smothered masculine essence. Bitch less about men’s aggressive sexual energy and shift the focus to women’s insidious sexual elan. Preach to mobilize action to change the laws so marriage stops being a game rigged against the interests of men.

    Such brilliance!!!!

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  38. on December 23, 2008 at 3:10 pm ironrailsironweights

    For all the blathering on this blog, the fact remains that males continue to dominate most mixed-gender hirearchies. Perhaps not as much as used to be the case, but the basic rule hasn’t changed as far as I can tell. Anyone care to point out examples otherwise?

    Peter

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  39. on December 23, 2008 at 3:13 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Anyone care to point out examples otherwise?

    College.

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  40. My father raised 5 boys in the 70’s and 80’s, as a minister and he also had to take other jobs because he did not believe in taking a salary for preaching the Lord’s word. He worked multiple jobs. Didn’t ask for handouts but we did get help when he was off working. He also encouraged my mother to get her degree and she is still working now at a great job.

    My dad treated my mom well, but didn’t take any shit from her. He is a traditional Christian, the man run’s shit and I can’t even count the number of times he told my mother to shut the fuck up (He doesn’t swear though, but that is what he meant) when she was acting crazy.

    They are still happy today, married 40 years next spring.

    I’m not a holy roller. I’m not advocating faith or religion. But when actually applied, it keeps shit orderly.

    My dad didn’t take shit from me growing up either, or my four brothers. I understand what consequences are. He had a huge wooden paddle and he’d smack the shit out of us for fucking up.

    I’m glad he did. All of my brothers are successful and married good women. They don’t take shit either. Young men don’t need medals for cumming in tenth at the art fair. They need to be pushed to win, as there is no other goal.

    So, now we see this new warm and fuzzy church. Afraid to lay the law down, it panders to societal collapse. The pews have no men except for the occasional husband. Rows upon rows of single women, many with kids out of wedlock.

    If they’d followed their faith, the way it was meant, they’d have been married young, had some kids and those kids would have been off to collage while they were still relatively young.

    People wonder why there isn’t more jobs where a man can support his family? It is because we have empowered these silly women with “degrees” in liberal arts trash, “careers” pushing paper and going to committee. They create a false economy buying shit from Bed Bath & Beyond, trinkets and shiny things. Completely useless in a survival situation. These women push and push to keep up with others, so the beta men must follow.

    Now you need a dual income just to “live”. Bullshit. I welcome the collapse of the west. I know how to live in the woods, hunt, fish, camp and survive. I do not take shit from people, because I was raised right. I am not afraid if my “comfortable” life, suv or flat screen goes away. Are you?

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  41. For all the blathering on this blog, the fact remains that males continue to dominate most mixed-gender hirearchies.

    peter, the issue is not about alpha males dominating the top ranks of mixed-gender hierarchies, which is not surprising considering that men on average are more ambitious than women. the issue is the rules, formal and informal, that those organizations foist upon the unsuspecting — and oftentimes usefully tool-ish — majority beta male demographic. the catholic church, run almost entirely by men, is sticking it to betas and unwittingly playing right into the hands of the femifreaks when it lays the blame for porn at the right hands of horny betas while ignoring the effects that the fattening herd of women has had on men’s choices.

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  42. DTH says, “If they’d followed their faith, the way it was meant, they’d have been married young, had some kids and those kids would have been off to collage while they were still relatively young.”

    Um…been there, done that, and the guy flaked out. Now what?

    See, that benefitting from properly applied (Christian) faith thing only works if both are into it. Some of those mothers in the church are single because the dads walked out on their good women for the hypothetical whores they felt they were missing out on.

    …and I’m not one of those who came out of the asexual ideal crowd. My parents, who counsel other couples, say, “Whatever happens in the marriage bed is holy.”

    I know alot of good husbands in the church who’ve been left behind too. One of my mentors growing up’s wife left him for another man, and he was a relatively mild guy but no wuss by any stretch.

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  43. Wow, talk about feminization of Western culture. I’ll have to go back and read the archives, I had no idea the PUA rabbit hole went this deep. It’s like you’re channeling Otto Weininger. Have you read Sex & Character?

    Without having read the archives, I was trying to figure out why your thinking is so repugnant (although I have to admit you write fantastically and almost seem to have a spark of intelligent consciousness in there if only it weren’t buried under twisted cowardice). I think I’ve hit on at least one specific thing, which is that you call it a place where pretty lies perish. The problem is, the ugly lies are propped up here that should have been laid to rest long ago. And with ugly lies I’m not specifically talking about your opinion of the Catholic Church here …

    The biggest ugly lie is the principle underlying the way you live and think and write that we all are no more than our surface selves and our value no more than our market value. But if you had real courage you’d acknowledge that human beings have a hidden inwardness, whether it’s defined in religious terms (soul, spirit), psychological terms (psyche), post-Kantian philosophical terms (noumenal reality) – and this inwardness is the basis for another scheme of value that underlies that of surface selves & their responsiveness to supply-and-demand models, and runs contrary to it.

    You’re blind to this and all its implications because it’s easier, and you’re intellectually lazy, and I’m sorry for that.

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  44. on December 23, 2008 at 3:33 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Um…been there, done that, and the guy flaked out. Now what?

    See, that benefitting from properly applied (Christian) faith thing only works if both are into it. Some of those mothers in the church are single because the dads walked out on their good women for the hypothetical whores they felt they were missing out on.

    In a nutshell, THIS very reasoning has been the primary excuse for the construction of the current decimation of the institution of marriage.

    Because SOME men have walked out on their wives…

    …because a small minority of men have grossly abused their wives and girlfriends, the feminist lobbyists have used these instances, which was by no means the norm, as the reason for instituting the current no fault divorce/alimony/child custody system that has given women the incentives to destroy their families and enslave their ex-husbands into peonage.

    Because some men have walked out on their wives, the system has been turned on it’s head to the tune of 70+% of all divorces are filed by women, and for the most part it is because they are “bored” or “no longer in love” with their husbands…not because of “abuse” or “all men are rapists” as the feminist caricature portrays.

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  45. they are “bored” or “no longer in love” with their husbands

    Put it this way, if your wife was bored and no longer in love with you, other than the children, would you really want to her around even if her leaving you meant paying child support or alimony? While I may think that child support, visitation rights, and alimony need significant reforms, I’d prefer to keep no-fault divorce around as escape mechanism for marriage.

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  46. For all the blathering on this blog, the fact remains that males continue to dominate most mixed-gender hirearchies…..Anyone care to point out examples otherwise?

    Most relationships.

    Most marriages.

    College as Dave pointed out.

    Most social gatherings, whether nightlcubs, house parties or business networking functions, where most of the quality interactions involve either women dealing with each other, alpha males dealing with alpha males, or alpha males dealing with women, while the majority of men, betas, struggle to be taken seriously.

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  47. ASDF,
    I don’t disagree that Whites have a great deal for Christianity; but I would caution you and anyone else not to get it twisted; Black folk have played a powerful role in the Church, from St. Augstine himself to Martin Luther King Jr. Remember, when Solidarity (calling PA?) finally broke free from the Soviet yoke in Poland, the people there marched down the street singing the Old Negro Spiritual, “We Shall Overcome…”

    As for the question of Alpha Males in the History of the Church…it is my understanding that Paul was quite such a person. I recommend a careful reading of his Book of Romans, which is also mentioned in the Holy Qur’an. Paul is one of my favorites.

    Salaam
    Mu

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  48. on December 23, 2008 at 3:49 pm ironrailsironweights

    Anyone care to point out examples otherwise?

    College.

    Hardly. More females than males attend college, but females are also much more likely to study liberal arts and other soft subjects, even as the males get most of the science and engineering degrees. Males also are much more likely to dominate classroom discussions and other sorts of informal campus hirearchies. It’s no surprise that there are many all-female colleges but virtually no all-male ones. Even things more or less peripheral to the primary educational function are male-dominated at most colleges. For example, fraternities generally have a far more dominant role in campus social life than sororities, and despite Title IX’s best efforts men’s sports get nearly all the attention.

    Peter

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  49. For all the blathering on this blog, the fact remains that males continue to dominate most mixed-gender hirearchies. Perhaps not as much as used to be the case, but the basic rule hasn’t changed as far as I can tell. Anyone care to point out examples otherwise?

    Anybody notice a pattern here.

    1. Alpha male commits some outrage against women.
    2. Outrage is blamed on “men.”
    3. Law or policy is enacted that smashes down hard on beta males.
    4. Alpha males continue committing outrages.
    5. Harsher laws and policies are enacted to smash down even harder on beta males.
    6. Wash rinse repeat.

    One of the most fundamental mistakes when talking about “men” is the failure to distinguish between alphas and betas. Alpha males do indeed hold most of the power in our society. This does not mean the men in general hold most of the power in society.

    All the laws enacted to distribute power at the top between men and women inevitably fail miserably, because men have such enormous incentive to claw their way into alphahood and, in the end, the women who supposedly want to bring about equality would rather fuck the alphas than be equal to them.

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  50. when Solidarity (calling PA?) finally broke free from the Soviet yoke in Poland, the people there marched down the street singing the Old Negro Spiritual, “We Shall Overcome…”

    I’ve never heard of that, but that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Would be kind of interesting!

    But it’s unlikely they would have been singing it in English. Maybe just the melody?

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  51. on December 23, 2008 at 4:01 pm ironrailsironweights

    One of the most fundamental mistakes when talking about “men” is the failure to distinguish between alphas and betas. Alpha males do indeed hold most of the power in our society. This does not mean the men in general hold most of the power in society.
    All the laws enacted to distribute power at the top between men and women inevitably fail miserably, because men have such enormous incentive to claw their way into alphahood and, in the end, the women who supposedly want to bring about equality would rather fuck the alphas than be equal to them.

    And …. so? Men are competitive. This should not be surprising to anyone. The thing is, most men have the capability to try to “claw their way into alphahood.” It’s not as if all men are born Alpha or Beta and can never change. Contrast with this the relations between males and females, where one’s gender cannot (reasonably) be changed.

    Peter

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  52. Dave, my point was that even if one does everything “right”, things can still go dreadfully wrong. It’s not a good idea to rely on a religion to make one’s life perfect. It’s better to rely on yourself, and if you like, your personal relationship with God or the universe.

    It’s being able to stand on my own that enables me to stand loyally by someone else…not paperwork, and not a Santa Claus in the sky who obviously doesn’t answer prayer.

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  53. PA,
    Yes, that is my understanding. Perhaps they did indeed sing it in Polish; nevertheless, they sang the tune, from what I gather.

    In any event, it is important to note, in reply to ASDF, that Africans/African Americans have played a significant role in the Church, and I say this as a non-Christian; and, I’d go further to say, that it has been said that *if* the Church is to survive in any meaningful way, it will do so *because* of new adherents in African, Latina American and China, not in spite of them. Indeed, in African specifically, they tend to be quite more socially conservative.

    Salaam
    Mu

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  54. Women are obsessed with alpha males. But they won’t admit that it is only alphas that they are actually talking about. It’s almost silly.

    Examples:

    1. Complaints about men that don’t want to commit.

    In fact, most men are quite willing to commit. It’s only alphas with lots of other options whe are reluctant. A dating book like He’s Just Not That Into You should have been retitled He’s Out of Your League.

    2. Complaints about men being pump and dumpers.

    It is a common assumption that the average man was the prime beneficiary of the sexual revolution. Wrong. Only alphas have the power to pump and dump. Most men are jerking off to internet porn. Much of a modern woman’s romantic disappointment is the result of falling in love with men out of her league, not the predatory sexual nature of the average man.

    3. Complaints about men holding all the power.

    Only alphas have a lot of power.

    Yes, there are shades of gray between alphas and betas, but the distinction is fundamental to understanding the male-female balance of power.

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  55. Hardly. More females than males attend college, but females are also much more likely to study liberal arts and other soft subjects, even as the males get most of the science and engineering degrees. Males also are much more likely to dominate classroom discussions and other sorts of informal campus hirearchies. It’s no surprise that there are many all-female colleges but virtually no all-male ones. Even things more or less peripheral to the primary educational function are male-dominated at most colleges. For example, fraternities generally have a far more dominant role in campus social life than sororities, and despite Title IX’s best efforts men’s sports get nearly all the attention.

    Peter

    Change your definition of domination. Yes, the men get a majority of the hard science degrees, dominate classroom discussions maybe, etc. But why are men so much more ambitious in their choice of degrees and in showing dominance in academic situations? TO IMPRESS WOMEN. And why can women get away with getting less impressive degrees as a group in comparison to men? Because they always have the option based on their gender of marrying up to a man with the right credentials rather than getting those credentials for themselves. Why do I, as a pretty woman, have to bust my hump to become a CEO when I can just let a man do all the heavy lifting to become a CEO, then pussywhip him, get him to marry me and reap the benefits anyway without doing the hard work?

    The ultimate marker of domination in a society is the ability to get someone else to do a bulk of the heavy lifting for you in your name, while you reap most of the benefits. This is what a CEO does, or any manager or top dog. THAT’S domination. But who is above the CEO or top manager and reaping most of the benefits while he does most of the heavy lifting? His wife or girlfriend.

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  56. And …. so? Men are competitive. This should not be surprising to anyone. The thing is, most men have the capability to try to “claw their way into alphahood.” It’s not as if all men are born Alpha or Beta and can never change. Contrast with this the relations between males and females, where one’s gender cannot (reasonably) be changed.

    Peter

    And Peter? For whose benefit are most men trying to claw into alphahood? For the benefit of other men, or to impress women? And if it’s to impress women and lavish her with the rewards of his labor, who is truly dominating in society?

    If men could suddenly nail and be worshipped by hot women by sitting in their underwear playing videogames all day and drinking, societal progress and competitiveness would virtually screech to a halt.

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  57. Thursday, “A dating book like He’s Just Not That Into You should have been retitled He’s Out of Your League.”

    Thank you.

    As I tell my “padawans”, a very very small minority of men do not want a “serious relationship”. So it’s safe to assume with near 100% accuracy, that when a guy tells you that he doesn’t want one, what he’s really saying is that he doesn’t think you’re worth having a serious relationship with.

    One way some women test a guy on this is by introducing him to hotter friends. One of them says, “You know, my friend is such a good woman. Yet she tells me you don’t want a serious relationship.”

    The waffling begins, and he tries to convince the hotter friend that he’s not against relationships…

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  58. There is still a societal need for betas.

    Thank god there are ways for alphas to make use of that niche:

    http://humboldt.craigslist.org/cas/967606843.html

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  59. on December 23, 2008 at 4:19 pm ironrailsironweights

    For whose benefit are most men trying to claw into alphahood? For the benefit of other men, or to impress women? And if it’s to impress women and lavish her with the rewards of his labor, who is truly dominating in society?

    I don’t agree. Many men – not all, but a substantial percentage for sure – are naturally competitive with other men even when snagging women is not an issue. It’s something built into our nature. If anything, the presence of women can be a calming influence.

    Peter

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  60. the fattening herd

    If most fat girls thinned down, you’d be stuck with a pool of flat-chested 5s, not 8s and 9s. Stop using Alpha-mind tricks to fool the betas.

    But why are men so much more ambitious in their choice of degrees and in showing dominance in academic situations?

    I want high grades so I can say that I’m better than other people, and then parlay the high grades into a successful career that I can use to say that I’m better than other people, and use the money to partake in my hobbies.

    But who is above the CEO or top manager and reaping most of the benefits while he does most of the heavy lifting?

    Nobody told his dumb ass to go shower some woman with his hard earned rewards.

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  61. 11, get one of the blowjobs as an advance. 🙂

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  62. I don’t agree. Many men – not all, but a substantial percentage for sure – are naturally competitive with other men even when snagging women is not an issue. It’s something built into our nature. If anything, the presence of women can be a calming influence.

    This is a reassuring fiction men tell themselves. They don’t want to admit to themselves they are that simple, that approval for women drives that much of their actions. But it’s true. Look at any polygamous society where hoarding of women by alphas is acceptable. The beta males have zero ambition and have resigned themselves to their beta status because their chances of getting a great woman are zilch.

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  63. David says, “Stop using Alpha-mind tricks to fool the betas.”

    I don’t think he meant that as a mind trick. He honestly believes it.

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  64. Nobody told his dumb ass to go shower some woman with his hard earned rewards.

    Whether or not anyone told him to do it is irrelevant. I’m not debating whether it’s right or wrong. The point is that most men DO do it, meaning that women ARE on top of the food chain.

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  65. Nicole, given how bad most women are at giving head – I think a free sample would only be fair.

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  66. i don’t know how useful this question of dominance is. for most of human history men have had control of hard power, and to compensate women have learned to use soft power.

    for this reason, it’s almost never appropriate to speak of men vs. women in the broad sense. roissy does, however, have a point about beta males becoming societies whipping boy; although, personally, it doesn’t bother me all that much. the big exception being the way that the ever-increasing welfare state makes cuckolds of us all.

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  67. The thing is, most men have the capability to try to “claw their way into alphahood.” It’s not as if all men are born Alpha or Beta and can never change.

    One of the genuine advantages of being a male is having much more ability to change your status in the mating hierarchy. Women are pretty much stuck with whatever status their looks give them.

    Still, there are serious limits to how much a man can change up his status. Intelligence for example. Not everybody has the smarts to run their own business. Even learning game, for example, requires a certain amount of innate intelligence.

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  68. petey:
    And …. so? Men are competitive. This should not be surprising to anyone.

    you’re introducing irrelevancies. that most men are competitive does nothing to detract from the accurate observation that there are a few alphas at the top, and many many betas underneath who are getting the shaft harder, longer and stronger than they ever have in the post-“liberated” west.

    the thing is, most men have the capability to try to “claw their way into alphahood.”

    this is probably not true if we confine your meaning to actual ability rather than desire.

    It’s not as if all men are born Alpha or Beta and can never change.

    the evidence is mounting that alpha traits are at least partially genetic in origin much like the shape of your nose. nonetheless, thursday is right above that men do have more freedom than women to move up and down the sexual market ladder.

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  69. i don’t know how useful this question of dominance is. for most of human history men have had control of hard power, and to compensate women have learned to use soft power.

    yes, but this is slowly becoming a world culture of soft power. i mean, isn’t that a big part of this feminization of the west theme, that soft power now rules the day?

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  70. “a medieval patriarchy is what we see swarming the shores of the west, soon to the chagrin of those feminists who happily participated in the neutering of the founding beta stock of their nations.”

    Perfectly congruent with the criticism that the west is suffering from an anarcho-tyranny. The powers that be (ptb) are fine with third-world immigration (legal and illegal). Such immigrants come from a wholly different type of culture and tradition*. Diversity being sancrosanct, not only is their sometimes illegal mere presence given too much deference, often their lack of assimilation is excused. When they push back, the PTB, per a semi-blinded short-term rational cost-benefit analysis, yield. (An anomaly: American blacks tend to push back more often and are sometimes excused (Jena), sometimes crushed (Michael Vick, black college frats that retain some aspects of initiation by physical test). Policing becomes disproportional. Beta Western raised and gelded males, being (having become, having been trained to be –where is Shouting Thomas to flagellate the younger generation?) easy, relatively non-responsive (slow fuse?) pickings, get crushed. There are several vicious cycles.

    *”As important as anything else are relations between the sexes. Members of advanced societies are used to a situation where the streets are more or less safe so that women can walk them as well as men. This, however, is by no means universally the case. Many societies, especially nomadic ones, never had or could have had a police force. In others, such as Afghanistan, Somolia, or even parts of South Africa, what police forces did exist have broken down. Hence unprotected women are considered legitimate prey. Conversely, it is every man’s first task in life to protect his female dependents, using physical force if necessary. Men who behave in this way, which of course also includes making sure that those dependents do not expose themselves beyond what is customary, will command their neighbors’ admiration. Those who cannot or will not do so are not men at all. They will be despised by the men and deserted by the women –assuming, that is, that they can find any women to start with. A stronger incentive for resorting to violence –which, ascending through family alliances (“we’ll leave your women alone provided you do the same with ours”) to clan and tribe, may escalate until it develops into full-blown armed conflict– could hardly be imagined.” Martin van Creveld, The Culture of War.

    BTW, how is the Houellebecq?

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  71. “learning game, for example, requires a certain amount of innate intelligence.”

    Yes. All the top guys have pretty high IQ’s. Strauss’s progress in the Game, for example, was rapid because of his high genetic intelligence and attention to small details. The other top guys were all successful in other parts of their life – definitely in the smart fraction, if not the right 10%. Mehow has an enormous skull and is related to some famous Polish musicians.

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  72. Mu’min,
    While St. Augustine may have been African, he was not black. He was some sort of Mediterranean. That is not to say that there isn’t a place for blacks in the Church. I was just saying that the people who run the Church run it like they run their countries. A Catholic Church dominated by Africans or South Americans would be vastly different from its current incarnation.

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  73. DA trolled:
    If most fat girls thinned down, you’d be stuck with a pool of flat-chested 5s, not 8s and 9s.

    DA your troll act is wearing thin. like a small child snotting itself, it’s cute for maybe three seconds, and then you want to wash it off with a firehose. so let’s cut the fucking bullshit already. a majority of american women are clinically overweight. if they thinned down, you’d be graced with an increase in the number of attractive chicks. that some fat fucks might lose a cup size in their floppy pendulous udders is insignificant compared to the boost in attractiveness they will receive from slimming down to a sexy hourglass figure, nice tight ass, and elegant face unobstructed by layers of disfiguring blubber.

    moocow:
    David says, “Stop using Alpha-mind tricks to fool the betas.”

    I don’t think he meant that as a mind trick. He honestly believes it.

    hey, ugly fat fuck, newsflash: the vast majority of men prefer slender women. that this untidy fact of male nature makes you upset for the all too obvious reasons (you’ve posted a link to your pic on this blog) does not mean you can assign yourself a get-out-of-ego-death-free card by imagining i only speak for myself when i describe the nearly universal standards that men share in what they find attractive in women.

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  74. @ T

    my point is to move away from the man/woman, black/white, rich/poor, type splits on which people seem to get so caught. start looking at the real ways in which power asserts itself, and at who benefits from these new paradigms.

    rules can exist for two reasons. they can exist to make the world simpler and more just, or they can exist to make it more complex and capricious. the old power structure had its flaws; most notably, it didn’t apply to everyone equally. at one point feminism and civil rights were about legitimizing the basic values of western civilization, of the enlightenment, and making sure they applied to everyone. unfortunately, at some point, that changed and now certain strains of feminism and multiculturalism exist as purely a means of seizing power.

    the thing to remember is that the rules they attempt to put in place are meant to be broken. this is why leftists are always invoking instances of collective guilt. it puts us all on the defensive. it’s the contemporary version of original sin.

    this porn thing is the perfect example. for a man who just doesn’t get the contemporary dating scene, porn is an outlet. it only makes sense that this space would eventually come under attack. to say, however, that it’s coming under attack from ‘women’ or even a ‘feminized society’ is just too simplistic. it’s coming under attack from those people in our society who want control; who want to make the rules; who want to keep beta males on a short leash. i think most women could care less what david alexander does in front of his computer screen. in fact, since women tend to be compassionate in the abstract, they don’t begrudge men for indulging in porn, or strippers, or even hookers.

    of course this is a case where i can just as easily ask the women who post here what they think? what do you think about porn? does it make you angry, jealous, offended, turned on, all of the above?

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  75. BTW, how is the Houellebecq?

    Yes, when are we getting those promised reviews of Whatever and The Elementary Particles? I finished Whatever a few weeks ago and have to say that the book’s analysis of Western sexual mores is remarkably close to Roissy’s. Damn great book. Time for Roissy to get in some Christmas reading, methinks.

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  76. the boost in attractiveness they will receive from slimming down to a sexy hourglass figure, nice tight ass, and elegant face unobstructed by layers of disfiguring blubber.

    Except the vast majority of these so-called fat fucks are mostly 3s and 4s who become 4s and 5s at best. Hell, I’ve seen several women in their twenties, thirties, and forties lose weight in varying amounts, and they weren’t magical hot women. While their attractiveness did increase slightly, these women didn’t become the hot women than men spend their days fawning over. The blubber went away, but the ugliness was softened only slightly.

    Mind you, if you bang ugly girls with nice bodies, IMHO, you’re a pathetic loser who can’t do better and has no restraint and self-control…

    the vast majority of men prefer slender women

    I believe Nicole has noted that men prefer slender women…

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  77. MQ — I am not Roissy. But I do think that objectively he is right, and you fail to see the huge, coming danger. IMHO you are analogous to the Byzantine Priests debating how many Angels can dance on the head of a pin as the Muslim hordes over-ran the walls of Constantinople.

    The fundamental problem with women’s sexuality unconstrained is that MEN FIGHT OVER WOMEN. They have always done so and will always do so. Even the most “beta” guy can over time become extremely violent and the violence “veto” can trump women’s freedom. Let’s be clear: Western culture has depended on mostly free, mostly independent choice by women of their own mate, and in return they are expected to stick with them. This solves the problem for the most part of fighting over women, and note that the founding Literature of the West, the Iliad and the Odyssey, from around 1000 BC (predating the Bible, even) center around a political fight over a woman (Helen) and a man’s journey back to his faithful wife (Odysseus).

    Unless women’s sexuality is constrained, soft polygamy of lots of women (most of the desireable ones) with a very few men pretty much guarantees violence. It’s ALREADY started in Greece, where the rioting by young men is really about women. Belmont Club has a quote from one rioter complaining that as an engineer, the only job he can find is teaching math to Jr. High students for 12 hours a week at a low wage. He can’t attract a woman much less raise a family on that money.

    Reality check: push most men out of the relationship market and they get violent, sooner or later. Tools and weapons means that the most “beta” of them can cause lots of trouble, ask the people of Bombay how the Polygamy of Pakistan affected their lives.

    It will get worse when Porn becomes harder to find, and outlawed to please women and the Alpha men who cater to women (John Edwards, Obama, etc.). Already technology (roofies) exist to allow men to perpetrate some ugly violence against women. Imagine electronic versions of that.

    Bottom line: both sexes need their sexuality controlled and channeled, women more than men I think, in order to create broad stakeholders in society who will defend it. No beta isolated man is going to die for anyone, much less a woman (or her kid). People without a stake in society will always be ready to overthrow the whole thing.

    Women, btw, love hierarchy and Alphas. They form the main audience for “Da Vinci Code,” “Twilight,” and every Disney Princess story, including Caroline Kennedy and Barack Obama.

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  78. I would suggest religion has deeper issues at the core than the portrayal of males and females and their relative positions within the church.

    Nicole touched on it above, but the real thing that has made the church truly repugnant to many is precisely thought policing, fascism in the name of God, and such behavior. Knuckle-dragging troglodytism and regressive behavior is not alpha; it’s merely stupid.

    Those of us who still believe in things like “Live Free or Die” and the actual philosophy of those who founded America tend not to appreciate that kind of thing.

    With that said, I think the church is totally batshit loonball on gender relations as well, but that’s not exactly the main problem so much as a symptom of the disease.

    Peter: Family Law.

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  79. on December 23, 2008 at 5:26 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Bottom line: both sexes need their sexuality controlled and channeled, women more than men I think, in order to create broad stakeholders in society who will defend it. No beta isolated man is going to die for anyone, much less a woman (or her kid). People without a stake in society will always be ready to overthrow the whole thing.

    Whiskey – ever read The Garbage Generation by Daniel Amneus? He makes the exact same argument.

    Here’s a relevant corollary to what you wrote regarding male violence from Nacy Levant, the author of “The Cultural Devastation of American Women”

    For the feminist movement to claim that they freed American women is a lie. You were permitted to become feminists by virtue of righteous men. Let the men of this nation become too indignant or unrighteous, and see how long your self-proclaimed liberation lasts. Why don’t you ask the women of Afghanistan what happened to their liberation, which existed prior to the national radicalization of angry men with weapons?

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  80. Roisy bleated, “moocow:”

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  81. 22 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

    25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

    – Ephesians, chapter 5

    I’m a relapsed Catholic, but that passage still has a lot of meaning to me.

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  82. Judging from all the posts I read here, I am predicting the rise of a genuine American fascist movement. When men obsess over society’s weakness, feminization, loss of strength, etc., they turn into raving lunatics (Weimar Germany had all of the problems you all detail above, and look what happened to it, and the world as a result).

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  83. The Twilight/Robert Pattinson phenomenon is instructive. An amazing movie/book – gamewise – Edward Cullen feeds Bella a diet chock full of shotgun negs, indifference, cold reads, bold moves, mystery, alphaness, and even cocky-funny (moreso in the book than movie).

    It shows what women want, and perfectly portrays two nice-guy chumps who do everything for her, and are even a little ‘cocky-funny’ themselves, but fail miserably. She goes off with a vampire who wants to kill her. Perfect.
    There’s a great line in the book re the nice guy betas: ‘Mikes (beta) puppy dog behavior and Erics (beta) apparant rivalry with him were disconcerting. I wasn’t sure I didn’t prefer being ignored’. Or her ‘refusing’ a beta date request: “‘Sure’ I agreed, and then bit my lip. I wouldn’t want him to take that too literally.'”

    The book is better than the movie because it shows the internal thoughts of Bella, and why Cullen’s mind-games work so insidiously.

    But how about Robert Pattinson? He could run a haram if he wanted to. ALL IT TAKES IS THE WILLPOWER. There is nothing in the culture stopping outright polygamy from happening. All it takes is a super high status guy to realise this and the whole structure will fall apart. Gay marriage will help this process along.

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  84. Frankly, I agree with the Catholics; porn is pathetic, demoralizing and socially retarded. Wanking to porn is rather new to western civilization; there are entire cultures in the east who still think you’ll go blind or die young or whatever if you choke the chicken. Those cultures aren’t as fucked up as ours. Whether it is a symptom or the disease doesn’t really matter; the Catholics are right. Wanking is escapism.

    Most betas would be better off if they quit spanking it to Jenna Jameson and worked up enough of a head of testosterone to go out and become their own redeemers.

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  85. Lupo, but that would require either accepting polyandry in hot women or settling for someone among the less than hot majority of women.

    If every guy gets a woman, not every guy will have a hot woman.

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  86. Yes, when are we getting those promised reviews of Whatever and The Elementary Particles?

    his books are next in my reading queue. right now i’m busy editing a friend’s new game book.

    troll trolled:
    Except the vast majority of these so-called fat fucks are mostly 3s and 4s who become 4s and 5s at best.

    you enjoy pulling shit like this out of your ass, eh? if over half of all women are overweight, it stands to reason that if they lost the weight they would all receive a significant rating boost, and that a nontrivial percentage of these former fatties — corresponding closely to the overall female attractiveness spectrum — would raise themselves into the 7+ category.
    your contention that 50+% of the american female population are natural 4s and 5s sans blubber is without any supporting evidence.

    Hell, I’ve seen several women in their twenties, thirties, and forties lose weight in varying amounts, and they weren’t magical hot women.

    gee, another useless anecdote from you. how ovarian.

    While their attractiveness did increase slightly, these women didn’t become the hot women than men spend their days fawning over. The blubber went away, but the ugliness was softened only slightly.

    see above.

    Mind you, if you bang ugly girls with nice bodies, IMHO, you’re a pathetic loser who can’t do better and has no restraint and self-control…

    false. a guy who bangs ugly girls with nice bodies is doing better than a guy who bangs ugly girls with ugly bodies.
    naturally, the preferred method is to bang the complete package.

    I believe Nicole has noted that men prefer slender women…

    she may have, but if that’s the case, then why does she write snarky ego-pricked shit like this:

    I don’t think he meant that as a mind trick. He honestly believes it.

    the above doesn’t sound like a woman in agreement with yours truly about the unpleasant universal realities of the mating market. instead, it sounds like a woman who wants to convince everyone (mostly herself) that my generalizations about male desire for thin chicks are a product of my mind rather than an observation of the world around us.

    DA, here’s a helpful tip: If you’re gonna white knight like a little faggy betabitchboy, it makes sense to go out on a limb for a decent looking girl. at least that way, when i snap the limb from under you, you land in the arms of a hottie LJBF instead of in the lardbucket of a whale carcass.

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  87. When David Alexander posts, he seems totally unable to make a joke or a boast in a typically male fashion; instead, he posts in this clinical, neutered way, like he’s answering a question on a college exam. Does he even know how to converse with regular people? That seems to be his main problem.

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  88. First, there seems to be a lot of confusion over what “the Catholic Church” (as opposed to the liberal American Bishops Conference, etc.) teaches. Your paleonconservative or “traditional Catholics” tend to be very much on board the sanity wagon with regard to things like immigration, the feminization of the Church (and of Christianity in general), the need for patriarchy, etc. A subset of these “trads” tend toward Jansenism — the (heretical) so-called “Catholic” version of Puritanism — especially in the United States where Jansenist-tainted Irish Catholicism prevailed culturally. But dogmatic Church teachings speak for themselves in spite of certain Catholics who can’t seem to talk about sex (or enjoy it) without some weird sense of shame.

    Second, a response to the poster who wrote:

    “Also, consider that while the “no sex outside of marriage” crowd is adamant about this prohibition,it doesnt say much about sex WITHIN marriage.Another boon to mercenary whoredom.According to this fucked-up doctrine, a mercenary who sells herself to the highest bidder and then nonchalantly denies that bidder the services bargained for,or,who wields her sexual favors as a weapon,threatening to withdraw them if the kitchen isnt remodeled or hubby wont purchase her an expensive pair of Italian shoes,has technically done nothing to transgress the moral code.But a sixteen year old boy who jerks off to a PLAYBOY centerfold is headed straight toward perdition.”

    The Church teaches that the husband has rights to the woman’s body, and that the woman has rights to his. A spouse can rightfully refuse for health reasons and the like, but playing sexual mind games, using sex as a weapon, etc., is most definitely spoken against. Sex is seen by orthodox Catholics as having two purposes: the first and primary is procreative; the second is unitive. If the primary focus isn’t on the procreative (or if the procreative aspects — sex’s natural primary end — is left out of the equation), then we get a culture that treats sex as sport, as Pope Paul VI warned in Humane Vitae. When sex becomes sport, then we get the type of situation most people here are lamenting: broken homes, fatherless children, women getting rid of one partner so they can move on to the next thrill, women putting off having children so they can follow careers (not that all women should marry and procreate, of course), a redefinition of marriage as being not primarily concerned with the begetting and raising of children, but with sheer “romance” and such.

    It seems to me that the sexual revolution — the “liberation” of sex from its procreative functions — freed women to become whores. Men bought into it (hey, a different woman every day, why not?) until the natural consequences of that became apparent: women running to divorce lawyers and seizing control of their soon-to-be ex-husbands’ children and wallets once the husband became a bit boring. Thanks no-fault divorce! You’ve done our civilization proud…) A man either remains a game aficianado all his life, or risks handing his balls to a woman who’ll have the courts to act as Guido.

    But here in the comments section of Roissy’s blog, we have a plethora of posters who seem to want to have their cake and to eat it, too. They want sex free of the possibility and responsibility of children — while at the same time yearning for a “good woman” who gives a shit about her husband, is faithful, listens to him, sees him as the head of the household, dislikes no-fault divorce, cringes at the man-bashing culture we’ve developed, and would buy such things as “The Dangerous Book for Boys” for her sons, who loves masculinity and isn’t afraid to admit it.

    If the family is the key unit of civilization, and if what’s been described above is what’s necessary for ordered families, then the “playahs” here should use their alpha-ness to combat no-fault divorce and the requirement that men pay for children born out of wedlock. They should realize that the Catholic Church has had it right for two-thousand years, in spite of how Vatican II’s documents have been twisted by liberal (and often gay) Bishops and the media to mean anything they want them to mean. They should fight unnatural contraception (as opposed to periodic abstinence). They would have to subject their cocks to the same moral laws that they want women to subject themselves to (fidelity, respecting sex as more than a sport). They would respect women as potential mothers and not treat them as cum-receptacles. What’s going on here is vengeance. Understandable, but not productive other than the momentary feeling of having paid the other sex back (and, of course, the physical pay-off of game). Basically it comes down to which you’re willing to fight for more: the ability to loose your alpha-cock on women, or your very civilization. The hedonist approach is tempting, I’m sure (hey, what’s in it for me?), but it’s the same choice women have to make, too: do I want to be a good woman and be a part of restoring the world? or a whore who at least has some momentary pleasure? Heroes and heroines would take the high road.

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  89. Roissy, in shock that he could possibly be so very wrong about someone protested, “the above doesn’t sound like a woman in agreement with yours truly about the unpleasant universal realities of the mating market.”

    Most of the facts, I agree with. I just don’t perceive the facts the same way you do because I’m a different person with difference circumstances, and different experiences.

    What you view as something that validates your superiority or that of those who think like you, I attempt to measure more objectively.

    Only a beta thinks that something is good, beneficial, or superior simply because the majority prefers it. That the herd values something is not an endorsement to me. In some cases, I see it as something they do because for them, conforming is better for their survival than not.

    By the same, I don’t consider something good just because it is rebellious…but it is at least a step in the right direction, so long as it harms none but the rebel.

    “instead, it sounds like a woman who wants to convince everyone (mostly herself) that my generalizations about male desire for thin chicks are a product of my mind rather than an observation of the world around us.”

    In other words, you don’t read most of my posts at all.

    Well, at least this is somewhat encouraging in that you’re Alpha enough to be somewhat indifferent towards women you consider unattractive, rather than actively hostile.

    If it helps, imagine that I’m just one of the guys who happens to have a vagina…like one of your fat female friends, if you have any.

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  90. PA: Well, David, if you thing that the Church’s role is to promote the collapse of civilization and an ethnocide of its faithful….

    I would say the incoming Muslim immigrants are more likely to eventually turn to the Catholic Church than the overwhelmingly non-believing white Europeans. Not that either is particularly likely, but the Catholic Church in Europe figures it might as well roll the dice considering its falling attendance.

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  91. Petey said: “It’s not as if all men are born Alpha or Beta and can never change.”

    Roissy’s reply “the evidence is mounting that alpha traits are at least partially genetic in origin much like the shape of your nose. nonetheless, thursday is right above that men do have more freedom than women to move up and down the sexual market ladder.”

    From today’s newspaper, a start to confirming Roissy’s point:

    Alphaness is partially inherited

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/dec/23/bad-boys-bad-to-the-bone-no-its-in-genes/

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  92. is christianity all that alpha to begin with?

    On the contrary. Christianity is fundamentally a very feminine religion.

    is any religion?

    Islam was built for warriors by warriors. It’s the perfect vehicle for an older sheikh to recruit young men for conquest for war booty and sex slaves. Prophet Muhammad gave detailed instructions as to how to divide war booty. The kind of state Islam initially gave rise to was an conquering empire whose economy depended on new conquests.

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  93. “Lupo, but that would require either accepting polyandry in hot women or settling for someone among the less than hot majority of women.”

    Lol, polyandry; one of them made up words based on female wish fulfillment, sort of like “date rape.” So? That’s the situation now and forever. Telling goober it’s OK to run away to wish fulfillment sticky magazine land results in his being as unable to have a normal relationship as the aged sluts that Roissy talks about. I think the reason American women are such enormous fugly beasts (or weird looking silicone fleshbots) is because American men are wanking pussies. It’s just Spengler’s Law of Universal Gender Parity, “In every corner of the world and in every epoch of history, the men and women of every culture deserve each other. ”

    In the early 1960s, before porn was invented, technology involved inventing the jet and sending men to the moon. Women were on average 40lbs lighter then. The great innovation of my era was to find new ways to jerk off on the internet. I assert that these facts are not unrelated. It’s not like women got fugly, then men invented porn and forgot about conquering space; the process is symbiotic, like AIDS and Karposi’s sarcoma. Something like it doubtless happened in the late Roman empire as well, which is why Augustus had to pass laws attempting to force Romans to breed.

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  94. Great comment from Some Girl. I wish her, and others like her, well. However, despite such admirable men as John Paul II and Benedict XVI at the top, the church on the ground is often insufferably wussy. (Evangelical Protestantism is, on average, much more man friendly.) Here is a good essay on why JPII’s attempts at Catholic restoration were so ineffective in many ways:
    http://www.wf-f.org/JFH-ConservativeBishops.html

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  95. I think Roissy is scared of competition; that’s why he’s pushing this nature-over-nurture thing. Whenever individuals come into possession of valuable, they jealously guard it; hence, Roissy makes it seem like he’s special, and that nobody can reach his level of “alphaness”. How do you explain the success of all those PUAs who were once AFCs?

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  96. perceived moo:
    Most of the facts, I agree with. I just don’t perceive the facts the same way you do because I’m a different person with difference circumstances, and different experiences.

    your purported difference is a distinction without a difference. you are beholden to the sexual market just like the rest of us, and in your case, being a huge ugly woman, that means you will most assuredly receive less male attention than a better looking woman. your “””circumstances””” don’t mean squat inasmuch as you imagine they recuse you from the horrible judgement of human preference, and your self-indulgent perception of reality cannot alter reality.
    no matter what you tell yourself, the fact remains most men will either ignore you or look at you with disgust, and this will have ramifications for your ability to find a quality man who will fuck you and, more to the point, commit to you.

    i couldn’t read the rest of your slop. please hire an editor, pronto.

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  97. It teaches righteousness, duty, forebearance, sacrifice, and purity of the soul.

    Those are not alpha traits! Those are classic beta traits or at best traits that are completely orthogonal to social rank/rank potential.

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  98. Nicole:

    my point was that even if one does everything “right”, things can still go dreadfully wrong.

    Yes, yes, life has no certainties. But it is idiotic not to play the percentages.

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  99. “On the contrary. Christianity is fundamentally a very feminine religion.”

    Early Christianity was a very feminine religion. It was a religion of slaves and women. The religion of Charles the Hammer and Cour de Lion had pretty much nothing to do with Early Christianity, and was more manly than the religions of the Vikings. Most modern Christianity has approximately 0% in common with any of these eras of Christianity. Modern Episcopalianism for example is a pastiche of New York Times articles and decadent upper middle class folkways; the religion of Charles Gordon and William Wilberforce died in the 1960s.

    Islam is a female fantasy; not a male one. If you ever hung around with Muslim couples, you’d realize this. Allah is a moon god for chrissakes. Islam is what the West is turning into; polygamy, lack of control over emotions (which is why modern Islamic warriors are such clowns their best military tactic is suicide), grievance politics, occultism, technological regress and everything. Hell; go ask the average modern liberated douchebag what her fantasy land looks like: I bet there’s a crazy Arab in it somewhere. Islam’s historical successes were the result of Byzantine soccer riots (the green flag comes from Islam’s favored chariot team) and a far eastern slave revolt. Its modern successes are just the result of Western decadence. Islam had a couple of admirable eras, but compared to Christendom’s influence on the world, Islam is a joke.

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  100. and in your case, being a huge ugly woman, that means you will most assuredly receive less male attention than a better looking woman

    Why so mean Roissy. This is way over the top. There are only two days before Christmas yet you say something like this to another human being. I wonder what your children will look like? I wonder what your childhood was like?
    Most people don’t have faces& bodies ready to grace the cover of magazines but that doesn’t mean they should go and kill themselves. My God you are insensitive and if any woman is turned on by coldheartness then she deserves the mistreatment your misogynic ass gives her.

    BTW,
    While are relatively decent looking there is a very large space between yourself and Janka, Reggie Bush or Johnny Depp. Keep that in mind before you try to smash another woman’s self-esteem because she doesn’t physically appeal to you.

    you are beholden to the sexual market just like the rest of us
    Women who don’t want children, marriage and choose to adopt or remain childfree are not beholden to the sexual market. Most women don’t think about sex as often or in the same way that men do. Therefore we have no need to drive ourselves crazy trying to be what the other sex wants.

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  101. How do you explain the success of all those PUAs who were once AFCs?

    In any area, not just game, there always some guys out there who are _seriously_ underperforming relative to their natural talent. Some of them wake up or grow into their full potential. People like Steve Young and Kurt Warner in the NFL and Randy Johnson in Major League Baseball are examples. Some guys, however, don’t have much natural potential. Not everybody has the natural talent of Young or Johnson. The benefits they can get from learning things later in life are limited.

    Roissy has in the past expressed skepticism that someone like Neil Strauss could suck as badly with women as he writes in the game. For me, it is _entirely_ believable. Yes, you really can suck that badly with women and within a few months end up dating hotties. Holy shit, has this year been an eye opener. I don’t often quote Joseph Smith, but end of life statement seems apt, “No man knows my history. . . . I don’t blame anyone for not believing my history. If I had not experienced what I have, I could not have believed it myself.”

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  102. Women who don’t want children, marriage and choose to adopt or remain childfree are not beholden to the sexual market.

    Women like both sex (at least from alphas) and male attention, so this is ridiculous. Only those who are completely indifferent to sex are exempt from the sexual market.

    Therefore we have no need to drive ourselves crazy trying to be what the other sex wants.

    Lunatic. Women do crazy ass shit in the presence of an alpha male. At the minimum, they start qualifying themselves hard.

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  103. “The Church teaches that the husband has rights to the woman’s body, and that the woman has rights to his. A spouse can rightfully refuse for health reasons and the like, but playing sexual mind games, using sex as a weapon, etc., is most definitely spoken against.”

    Oh really? The Church may “teach” whatever it pleases.Thats not my point.My point is the EMPHASIS it places on certain sexual mores.Mores that are questionable for any number of reasons,not least of all the opening those mores give to some of the very basest of women to pursue and consumate their desires.

    When was the last time a Church group or other met to discuss,and condemn,the mercenary behaviour of women?I’m not aware of any,are you?

    If that gathering of Catholic jackasses in Princeton is so interested in sexual modesty why dont they scrutinize female sex tourism in places like Jamaica,or the phenomenon of “groupies” in sports and entertainment?

    Condemning “pornography” is cheap and easy.By so doing the clergy sycophantically courts the female power,and thereby gains its sufferance,which it uses to maintain its- largely financial- privileges.

    I want to see them starve.

    FUCK THEM!!!!!

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  104. Lupo says, “It’s just Spengler’s Law of Universal Gender Parity, ‘In every corner of the world and in every epoch of history, the men and women of every culture deserve each other. ‘”

    For once, you and I agree.

    Roissy snivelled, “your purported difference is a distinction without a difference.”

    You said that I have a problem accepting the reality of the situation. I don’t. You seem to have a problem with the idea of someone accepting the reality and not self destructing as a result of life not being pleasant or something.

    “you are beholden to the sexual market just like the rest of us,”

    Are you sure about that?

    If so, which sexual market am I beholden to?

    “and in your case, being a huge ugly woman, that means you will most assuredly receive less male attention than a better looking woman.”

    Of course I will receive fewer *sexual advances*. Attention, well…I receive so much attention from men on a daily basis that I’m not sure how much more sexual attention I’d get from them if I was better looking, but what I already have on my plate is more than I could possibly consume without gluttony. 😉

    “your “””circumstances””” don’t mean squat inasmuch as you imagine they recuse you from the horrible judgement of human preference, and your self-indulgent perception of reality cannot alter reality.”

    So what are you saying? I should be more uncomfortable with reality than I am?

    …and what’s so horrible about some humans’ preferences? Are they going to lynch me or take money out of my bank account for not being sexually attractive to the masses of couch potatoes and keyboard bullies who think I’m hideous?

    “no matter what you tell yourself, the fact remains most men will either ignore you or look at you with disgust,”

    Hmmm…disgust at the woman who invented a better babysling so their wife could nurse her babies discretely, or the hearing aid holders that keep them from losing $2000 whenever their deaf two year old has a tantrum.

    Somehow, I’m not feeling the hate between the words of gratitude, and the sounds of “cha-ching!”.

    ” and this will have ramifications for your ability to find a quality man who will fuck you and, more to the point, commit to you.”

    Been there, done that twice. Forgive me, but you aren’t a robotics engineer or a cop, and the worst trauma you’ve apparently survived is getting dumped by a hot woman or two.

    Don’t get into quality unless you want to square your own against the least of my biatches.

    “i couldn’t read the rest of your slop. please hire an editor, pronto.”

    Well next time you want to tell me what I think, the least you can do is do your research before reacting in such a feminine, emotional way.

    Rational arguments > emotional arguments.

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  105. Therefore we have no need to drive ourselves crazy trying to be what the other sex wants.

    Lunatic. Women do crazy ass shit in the presence of an alpha male. At the minimum, they start qualifying themselves hard.

    Not all women. Some women like alphas but don’t engage in any type of relationship etc.. with alphas because they come with too much drama and female attention.

    Women like both sex (at least from alphas) and male attention, so this is ridiculous. Only those who are completely indifferent to sex are exempt from the sexual market
    NO Thursday, a lot of women are indifferent to men sexually or until they meet someone with whom they have great chemistry. Now maybe you are very skilled, I think you are 🙂 but many men are not. There are many very unsatisfied women walking around.

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  106. “Now maybe you are very skilled, I think you are 🙂

    IOI – real or fake? hmmmm

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  107. No real Sebastian. Thursday is a teacher if I remember correctly.

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  108. In my not so humble opinion, our social problems all stem from one factor: Prosperity.

    Being a reader of history, I have yet to find any group of people not ruined by prosperity. It might take several generations, but it is inevitable. Think about it. Without want, there is no reason to do anything really effectively. Your instincts, designed for self preservation and gene spreading, in a stressful environment, result in all sorts of neurotic behavior. Obesity is one result. Stupidity. Sloth. Hedonism. Lack of strong longterm relationships. Lack of strong social bonds. Abnormal male female interaction.

    All these things are evident in our society today. That’s why I am hoping for a really deep, long, very painful depression here in the USA and I am hoping for great prosperity in Asia, South America, and Europe. (I must really hate those people to wish them well.)

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  109. Joel, it’s the Nietzchean blessing and curse. 🙂

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  110. Instead, you have bishops in the US lobbying for more third world immigration, against the death penalty, and against immigration law enforcement. Even more absurdly, you have the Church actively promoting non-Christian immigration into Europe and exhorting against “xenophobia.”

    PA, one must remember that per the interpretations of some in the hierarchy of the Catholic Church, promoting so-called “open borders”, lobbying for the end of the death penalty, and fighting xenophobia is at the heart of the Catholic social teaching. In other words, by supporting the issues that you listed above, the Church is fulfilling its role as Defender of the Faith, but in your cases, the portions of the faith that you may simply disagree upon.
    Or looking for new people to convert.

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  111. Without want, there is no reason to do anything really effectively. Your instincts, designed for self preservation and gene spreading, in a stressful environment, result in all sorts of neurotic behavior

    Joel- It’s the reason welfare without “work” is a problem.

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  112. An interesting fact that is rarely taken into consideration on this blog is that many gay men are alpha males but in a different cultural context. Someone mentioned the glorious art, architecture, culture of the Catholic Church, and of the West in general (the two cannot be separated). Yet so much of that cultural brilliance was created by homosexual men. Think about it: the gay man often has what most men want: unlimited freedom to do whatever he wants with as many sexual partners as he desires. He has the freedom to create intellectual or artistic monuments that are impossible most of the time for the man who is married with family responsibilities. Another interesting fact is this: as Camille Paglia has pointed out, and which is obvious, there are very few great works of art, architecture, music, etc., created by women. There are many reasons for this of course, but one of the most important reasons is that the drive that testosterone creates in men to be the best, the top, number one. Women lack and will always lack that and really cannot even begin to understand how testosterone drives a man to pursue certain things such as sex, money, power, creative greatness. Gay man obviously have testosterone too so their drive to be on the top is often channeled into artistic or creative projects. If you look at percentage of the great thinkers and artists in our history, it is amazing how many were and are gay in proportion to the actual numbers of gay men in society, which is probably not more than 5 percent. Of course many heterosexual men are great thinkers and artists too, but often at the expense of their families.

    A good modern example is the gentrification of modern cities. The former slum areas are slowly inhabited by gays, who spruce up the area, and then when the property values go up the yuppie couples start moving in with their slowly fattening, once hot mothers and their whipped husbands who will be secretly watching internet porn in total fear of their bitchy, overweight wives. The gays usually are pushed out, to find another area to then spruce up. Sort of like the effects of third world immigration in reverse.

    The West is in serious trouble now. Once the Muslim takes over he will simply kill the feminist, cut the clitoris of the rest of the women, and instill the true patriarchy that our modern sisterhood of harpies so despises. Oh yeah, and gays will be stoned to death too. Their hatred and fear of homosexuality is probably one of the factors for their lack of cultural brilliance in the modern world.

    I plan to just sit back and watch the carnage and laugh at what we have sown. Ethnic and cultural diversity is so wonderful.

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  113. Islam’s historical successes were the result of Byzantine soccer riots (the green flag comes from Islam’s favored chariot team) and a far eastern slave revolt. Its modern successes are just the result of Western decadence. Islam had a couple of admirable eras, but compared to Christendom’s influence on the world, Islam is a joke.

    I was talking about the times of the first Four Righteous Caliphs who conquered the Arabian Peninsula, smashed the Sassanid Persian Empire, and the Ummayaad Caliphate that conquered the Iberian peninsula. These fanatical warriors were no joke. But the trouble was the conquest and looting was all that this civilization was ever about.

    Around the time of consolidation of Islamic conquests, between the years 800 and 1000, the scriptural canon of Islam was set in stone and zealous Islamic fundamentalism had stiffled un-Islamic intellectual influence in the conquered areas. The result was stagnation. The Arab empire was consequently stomped on by Crusaders and Mongols. Later Muslim empires were founded by Turkic peoples and Persians.

    I agree that the modern success of Islam in the West is just the result of Western decadence.

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  114. Some Girl wrote: “But here in the comments section of Roissy’s blog, we have a plethora of posters who seem to want to have their cake and to eat it, too. They want sex free of the possibility and responsibility of children — while at the same time yearning for a “good woman” who gives a shit about her husband, is faithful, listens to him, sees him as the head of the household, dislikes no-fault divorce, cringes at the man-bashing culture we’ve developed, and would buy such things as “The Dangerous Book for Boys” for her sons, who loves masculinity and isn’t afraid to admit it.”

    Hmm… I like what you wrote in most of your post, but I have to disagree with this section of it.

    I would offer that what is going on here with men’s comments on this blog and in society as a whole is that a good percentage of the men are behaving in exactly the way the Prisoner’s Dilemma game would predict.

    I don’t think many people on this blog are being hypocritical.

    I doubt many men here would argue that family and fatherhood are not two of the highest endeavours and vocations a man could ever have in his life. That is why the men on this board are constantly talking about finding that “good woman.”

    I’m sure most men would like to take the “cooperate” choice and to do so, you need to find a good woman that you find sexually attractive.

    However, since so few exist, you are a total idiot if you keep cooperating while women keep defecting. You are a dupe.

    So men that are smart enough learn to defect in order to protect themselves and maximize what they can get out of this. “Game” merely maximizes their results given the brutal nature out there.

    There’s no way to get to the “mutually cooperate” result as long as PC, radical feminism, and all the other hosts of man-hating are out there, poisoning minds. In fact, they merely make the “cooperate” strategy even more of a loser, thus reinforcing the need for men to “defect” and use “game.”

    I don’t think it’s a case of having your cake and eating it too. It’s a matter of making the best out of the cards you’ve been dealt.

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  115. DF says, “I plan to just sit back and watch the carnage and laugh at what we have sown.”

    So long as your wife is helping me sew straps for assault rifles into abayas for the revolution, it’s all good.

    I promise to reward your services with the then illegal home brew and Rammstein CD’s.

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  116. chiclet:
    Why so mean Roissy. This is way over the top.

    i agree. that’s why it’s effective.
    btw, if moocow wants to avoid my cruelty all she has to do is stop insisting her fatness and ugliness are irrelevant to her reality.
    you see, chiclet, i shit on those losers who engage in streams of sophistry to subvert the truth. and i shit hardest on those who play the nicecard for themselves while getting their digs in on others they don’t like.
    careful, you’re treading dangerously close to that line.

    There are only two days before Christmas yet you say something like this to another human being.

    so if i said it two days after christmas it would be ok?

    I wonder what your children will look like?

    i bet it would warm your heart if my hypothetical children looked like ogres. remind me again that you’re the GOOD WOMAN.

    I wonder what your childhood was like?

    do i make you… curious?

    My God you are insensitive and if any woman is turned on by coldheartness then she deserves the mistreatment your misogynic ass gives her.

    do you think i treat my dates the way i treat nicole?
    or you?

    BTW,
    While are relatively decent looking there is a very large space between yourself and Janka, Reggie Bush or Johnny Depp.

    another unbiased third party heard from.

    ps most guys are ugly to me, but if i were pushed to judge, id say depp is good looking. janka is just alright. your high opinion of janka’s looks strikes me as weirdly idiosyncratic. could be a black woman thing.

    Keep that in mind before you try to smash another woman’s self-esteem because she doesn’t physically appeal to you.

    nicole’s miserable market value would not change for the better one iota if i happened to be a homeless bum living in a cardboard box stewing in my own piss and shit.

    Most women don’t think about sex as often or in the same way that men do.

    they do when their minds are focused by a man they like.

    Therefore we have no need to drive ourselves crazy trying to be what the other sex wants.

    do you routinely leave the house unshowered, smelly, and poorly dressed?

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  117. A good modern example is the gentrification of modern cities. The former slum areas are slowly inhabited by gays, who spruce up the area, and then when the property values go up the yuppie couples start moving in with their slowly fattening, once hot mothers and their whipped husbands who will be secretly watching internet porn in total fear of their bitchy, overweight wives. The gays usually are pushed out, to find another area to then spruce up. Sort of like the effects of third world immigration in reverse.

    Was it Steve Sailer who called gays the shock troops of gentrification?

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  118. “I was talking about the times of the first Four Righteous Caliphs who conquered the Arabian Peninsula, smashed the Sassanid Persian Empire, and the Ummayaad Caliphate that conquered the Iberian peninsula. These fanatical warriors were no joke.”

    So was I.

    One of the little appreciated historical facts about the Islamic conquest was the power vacuum it took place in. The parts of Byzantium that were conquered were literally at the mercy of roving gangs of “soccer hooligans,” the Greens and the Blues. Islam took its flag from the Greens. The Blues were associated with Imperial power. Sure, they were really “chariot hooligans” but the upshot is roughly the same. Islam was a relief from the moral Savagery of Byzantium. Regarding the Persian empire, only a few years before, they had been rocked by what amounts to a 1960s style countercultural religion known as Mazdakism. This isn’t mere Lupo-hyperbole: it was the same freaking thing, with wife swapping, abolition of private property, pot smoking, vegetarianism and everything. Khosrau the great had just wiped out a sizeable fraction of his populace fighting this menace (hippies are a lot more dangerous when you depend on subsistence agriculture, though sometimes I think it’s a shame Nixon didn’t read about Khosarau). Similarly, when they went a-marching into India, they were welcomed by the lower castes. I know less about the conquest of Spain, but they didn’t do very well against Western infantry when actually faced with it at Tours.

    Mostly Islam seems content to lie around in vegetable contentment. Perhaps this is why it mostly thrives in hot weather.

    Like


  119. chiclet dumped more steaming loads of herself:
    NO Thursday, a lot of women are indifferent to men sexually or until they meet someone with whom they have great chemistry.

    women may be indifferent to most men they meet, but they are not indifferent to the sexual market. they are constantly preening and primping to present themselves in the most attractive way so that should a quality man cross their paths they will have maximized their chances of snagging him.

    ps before you counter with the usual loser brigade bs, know that married women are not exempt from this. a legal contract does not stop the innate desires that animate us all.

    Like


  120. Der Fuehrer wrote: “Oh yeah, and gays will be stoned to death too. Their hatred and fear of homosexuality is probably one of the factors for their lack of cultural brilliance in the modern world.”

    I advise you to read this regarding Islam and gays.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200705/gay-saudi-arabia

    This article is true as far as I can tell from personal experience. When I was vacationing in Morocco, whenever I went out to a nightclub, I was instantly surrounded by whores. When I told the whores to fuck off, I was surrounded by gay men that were practically trying to rape me. One huge 2 meter, 120 KG gay Moroccan guy even grabbed me and said, “Hmm, I see you do not like women. That is good, you will come with me and give me pleasure.” I was about to smash my bottle over his head when security finally kicked him out.

    I asked the tour guide the next day what the hell was going on and he replied, “This is a Muslim state. Good girls stay home. The only people at clubs are whores and gays.” I learned my lesson, so I always let a whore chat me up at Moroccan clubs after that, because I saw it was true. The local men were there, if not to pick up whores, to pick up each other and Western men would be a big prize.

    I then asked some Paki friends about this and A LOT have stories about being raped by male cousins when they were young. Then their cousins grew older, married women and started families. This is all very hush-hush. And besides that, none of their cousins ever considered themselves to be gay.

    Muslims tolerate homosexuality to a very large degree, but if you come out of the closet, you will die. I would guess it’s much like prison homosexuality. When cut-off from women, even heterosexual men can become temporarily gay. That is the cost of putting your women in Burkas and enforcing chastity all the time. The older married men can survive, but the young men with the raging hormones go temporarily insane.

    Like


  121. DK,
    A Pakistani friend once told me there’s also a lot of hush-hush lesbianism among Muslim women.

    “the young men with the raging hormones go temporarily insane.”

    I think that happens everywhere.

    Like


  122. “DK,
    A Pakistani friend once told me there’s also a lot of hush-hush lesbianism among Muslim women.

    “the young men with the raging hormones go temporarily insane.”

    I think that happens everywhere.”

    Ok, maybe I should have rephrased to be more precise. Some portion of teenage boys with raging hormones start sodomizing their 8 year old boy cousins.

    I don’t think that happens everywhere.

    Like


  123. Roissy continues his Mr. Hardass chest beating with, “i agree. that’s why it’s effective.”

    At what exactly?

    “btw, if moocow wants to avoid my cruelty”

    Cruelty requires some advantage. The one and only advantage you have over me in just about any field is that this is your website. I assure you that this is the only reason that those who are laughing at you right now, don’t post as such.

    They are being kind to you because this is your turf, and also because they’d like to continue the discussion without getting banned for speaking the truth, which seems to hurt you much more than it hurts me.

    ” all she has to do is stop insisting her fatness and ugliness are irrelevant to her reality.”

    I never said that it was irrelevant to my reality.

    What I am denying is that it means that everyone should reject me just because you do.

    I’m 38 freakin’ years old. I’ve been married twice, and despite the hostile conditions, have a partner. I am done with the man chasing phase of my life, already have who to grow old with, and really don’t get why exactly I should feel bad about myself for having survived this long.

    “you see, chiclet, i shit on those losers who engage in streams of sophistry to subvert the truth.”

    Projection in the hiz…aw nevermind.

    “and i shit hardest on those who play the nicecard for themselves while getting their digs in on others they don’t like.”

    I never played the nice card. I’m playing the pulling punches because I don’t think you could take it card.

    “careful, you’re treading dangerously close to that line.”

    You would do better to take a lesson from me, and understand that when you become a kind of a public figure on the internet, you better develop a much thicker skin, a much better sense of proportion, and a greater ability to parse fact from fiction.

    Unlike offline, where people might forget what someone said and didn’t, here on the net it’s all in black and white for everyone to see. So if you’re going to attack someone, you best know what it is you’re attacking them for.

    If you’d had your facts straight, we wouldn’t be having this argument.

    Like


  124. T- And Peter? For whose benefit are most men trying to claw into alphahood? For there own benefit T. Most people are selfish.

    Like


  125. A Pakistani friend once told me there’s also a lot of hush-hush lesbianism among Muslim women
    Yea when a man can’t do it right some women will turn to other women for service.
    St8 men and the glory hole.

    Hello, have you read about the young boy older man relationships that happen in Afghanistan

    Like


  126. “For there own benefit T”

    I agree. A lot of men are so insecure in their masculinity that overcompensating becomes a lifelong obsession no matter how much the accomplish or what woman they get

    Like


  127. “Hello, have you read about the young boy older man relationships that happen in Afghanistan”

    Yes, it is not unlike the ancient Greek scenario where women also had low status. The reductio al absurdum of the male fear of female sexuality

    Like


  128. Jackson —

    Religion sets the “rules” for society, mediating conflicts before they escalate to violence or the law. Throughout human society, religion has been an adaptive mechanism to mediate and prevent conflicts. It’s why humans have evolved to have religion.

    Yes, of course thought and behavior HAVE to be controlled, so neighbors don’t stick a spear in each other. This is particularly true in hunter-gatherer societies and Western urban societies.

    Dave — no I will have to check out the Amneus book.

    Sebastian — the male hatred of guys like Pattinson, or Leonardo Di Caprio, or other guys like that is what is stopping that. Think Pitcairn Island where the men all killed each other over the women (except the lone survivor).

    Lupo — that’s impossible (Joe Average puts away porn). The dirty secret of female empowerment is that women demand ever higher power/status/domination in men. So Joe Average could game up all day long and it would get him nothing. Game only helps those with advantages to begin with: being a journalist (Style) or a tall, extrovert magician (Mystery).

    Great insight on Islam, however, Absolutely brilliant. Thank you for pointing that out. I learned something new. Makes sense when you think about it (Islam being a female type fantasy in many ways).

    Chic — almost every woman goes nuts for male celebrities when they are actually around. Otherwise sensible women go nuts when they are in a bar or on a plane. I’ve seen it myself.

    Like


  129. on December 23, 2008 at 9:05 pm Comment_More_Jabbering

    *****
    is because American men are wanking pussies. It’s just Spengler’s Law of Universal Gender Parity, “In every corner of the world and in every epoch of history, the men and women of every culture deserve each other. ”
    *****
    Sounds more like the moral equivalence nonsense that is a common stunt when you can’t actually defend your position.

    American Women had to pass the grossly un-Constitutional IMBRA to stop American Men from marrying foreign women. The Catholic Church is of course silent.

    American Business Women often are completely celibate or become lesbians when they are forced to spend extended periods in foreign countries. Foreign men won’t put up with them.

    There appears to be a differing level of desire among foreign women for American Men and foreign men for American Women.

    Like


  130. they are constantly preening and primping to present themselves in the most attractive way so that should a quality man cross their paths they will have maximized their chances of snagging him

    I don’t deny that women preen & primp for the attention of men but you should know that lipstick lesbians preen&primp for themselves and other women. If men disappeared tomorrow, there will be women like me who continue to preen and primp. Even old old women(80+) preen &primp.

    Like


  131. Chic — almost every woman goes nuts for male celebrities when they are actually around. Otherwise sensible women go nuts when they are in a bar or on a plane. I’ve seen it myself.

    If its a male celebrity she likes. I’ve crossed paths with a small number of celebs, some have a nice aura and others turn me off. I saw Lupe Fiasco* in person and my heart skipped a beat. I saw Dipset* as well as 50 with their boyz and I crossed the street.

    Whiskey, have you noticed the way Oprah’s fan react to her when she comes out at the start of her show. Her fans become very excited.

    *google

    Like


  132. “Even old old women(80+) preen &primp.”

    This is true. Wearing the best clothes, cosmetics and perfume you can afford makes you feel feminine even if there are no men around. One reason women love decorating is because it allows them to extend self-decoration and create a lovely environment. French women excel in this.

    Like


  133. moo mooed:
    Roissy snivelled,

    feed your hate, cunt.

    You said that I have a problem accepting the reality of the situation. I don’t.

    your words say otherwise.

    You seem to have a problem with the idea of someone accepting the reality and not self destructing as a result of life not being pleasant or something.

    you would not be answering my every jab at you in an effort to correct my impressions if my highlighting of the truth of your hellish existence were not pushing your buttons, selfdestructgirl.

    “you are beholden to the sexual market just like the rest of us,”

    Are you sure about that?

    yes.
    unless you’re a dedicated dyke. in which case, a different set of market variables takes precedence.

    If so, which sexual market am I beholden to?

    for your well-being, it would be best if you were a dyke. cuz you are gonna have a rough go of it in the hetero market.

    Of course I will receive fewer *sexual advances*.

    it’s the sexual market we’re talking about, so those are the only kinds of advances that matter to this discussion.

    Attention, well…I receive so much attention from men on a daily basis that I’m not sure how much more sexual attention I’d get from them if I was better looking, but what I already have on my plate is more than I could possibly consume without gluttony.

    if it’s not sexual attention, then it’s irrelevant to my point about your poor prospects.

    So what are you saying? I should be more uncomfortable with reality than I am?

    in this forum, you should be more careful about telling lies. cause i will call them out when i see them.
    and it won’t be pretty.

    …and what’s so horrible about some humans’ preferences?

    ask the losers for a firsthand account.

    Are they going to lynch me or take money out of my bank account for not being sexually attractive to the masses of couch potatoes and keyboard bullies who think I’m hideous?

    i wouldn’t give you shit if you didn’t pretend your looks weren’t a major hindrance to finding love with a quality man. i prefer to target my painful lessons on those who spread lies.

    ” and this will have ramifications for your ability to find a quality man who will fuck you and, more to the point, commit to you.”

    Been there, done that twice. Forgive me, but you aren’t a robotics engineer or a cop,

    i could be.

    and the worst trauma you’ve apparently survived is getting dumped by a hot woman or two.

    not surprised you would believe that considering the thrashing i’ve given you.

    Don’t get into quality unless you want to square your own against the least of my biatches.

    so you are a dyke, then? well, if that’s the case, then your fatness and ugliness are not as big a hit to your sexual market value, though it certainly suggests you are projecting your personal experiences with sex and love onto the workings of the hetero market, which would naturally lead you to the wrong conclusions about what it is men and women value in each other.

    Like


  134. on December 23, 2008 at 9:16 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Whiskey – it’s free, online here: The Garbage Generation.

    He also wrote a later volume that explored the issues he wrote about further called The Case for Father Custody (PDF)

    Like


  135. Finally, these holy jackasses have conveniently refrained from mentioning anything about what has rightfully been called “female pornography”.Romance novels,soap-operas,trashy “talk shows” and scandal sheets of all kinds.
    I’m guilty of reading romance novels. In my defense, romance novels are most often idealized versions of male female relationships. The “scenes” in romance novels are equally sexy as they are sensual. I think most men can become excited when reading erotica written by women. Erotica written by men has a tendency to be very coarse and vulgar and a turn off for the average woman. Maybe it’s a result of men being more visual but I find some of the sexual comments written by the men here to be lewd and sensational. They often leave me speechless with my mouth hanging open, no pun(down Tupac).
    The best that I came across here was a comment Roissy made in response to something Hello posted a few weeks ago. It read like something out of a blacklace novel and made me feel warm inside

    Like


  136. before you counter with the usual loser brigade bs, know that married women are not exempt from this. a legal contract does not stop the innate desires that animate us all.

    One of the creepiest aspects to learning game is having married women, often married women with young children, start giving you major IOIs, even when you aren’t really “gaming” them. I don’t go after married women, so I don’t know how far they would let me take it, but, holy crap, some of these women act like they are about to bow down and worship you.

    Like


  137. chiclet:
    I don’t deny that women preen & primp for the attention of men but you should know that lipstick lesbians preen&primp for themselves and other women.

    lesbians are not immune to the allure of female beauty.
    nicole sobbed.

    If men disappeared tomorrow, there will be women like me who continue to preen and primp.

    that’s probably true, though i suspect there would gradually be a diminishment in their beauty regime as time passed in this manless world.
    keep in mind that this observation does nothing to refute my point. women have evolved a desire to maximize their beauty so their genes can capture the highest quality man possible, since it is her looks that are most vital for this goal. if all men disappeared tomorrow, the evolved urge to prettify themselves would still be there.

    Even old old women(80+) preen &primp.

    see above.

    Like


  138. Romance novels are female porn, and I’ve known women who escaped bad marriages by reading them. I don’t care too much for them because they’re so formulaic. However I think they are less troubling to the Church than visual porn because at their worst romance novels are just cheesy whereas bestiality photos show true degradation.

    Anne Rice writes some good erotica that isn’t romance novel-like.

    Like


  139. Roissy moaned, “feed your hate, cunt.”

    Sorry, I don’t do cybersex. Thanks for offering though. 🙂

    “‘You said that I have a problem accepting the reality of the situation. I don’t.’

    your words say otherwise.”

    Which words?

    Oh that’s right. You can’t find any because you pulled that idea out of your tight little arse.

    Don’t worry, I’ll continue to use lubrication.

    “‘You seem to have a problem with the idea of someone accepting the reality and not self destructing as a result of life not being pleasant or something.’

    you would not be answering my every jab at you in an effort to correct my impressions if my highlighting of the truth of your hellish existence were not pushing your buttons, selfdestructgirl.”

    Hmmm…You may actually have a point there. Why am I bothering? I must be incredibly bored.

    Your whole argument is that I’m the fat ugly binge fairy who runs around telling everyone that they should prefer fat women, and that everybody in the world wants to shag me.

    Well, as I said in another thread, if this is all about your imaginary villain that I’m roleplaying for the moment, give it your best shot.

    Dance monkey dance.

    Like


  140. hello This is true. Wearing the best clothes, cosmetics and perfume you can afford makes you feel feminine even if there are no men around. One reason women love decorating is because it allows them to extend self-decoration and create a lovely environment. French women excel in this

    Cosign hello. That’s why I think that women who are overweight or obese should still put some effort into it. Tocora from top model is a big girl but for some reason she appeals to a wide variety of men. Many of whom don’t think that heavier women are attractive.
    <a http://blacksupermodel.blogspot.com/2008/07/tocarra-from-top-model-to-italien-vogue.html
    Smelling good is key. I notice that younger guys don’t wear cologne much. I had a buddy who wore an Avon cologne that costs twelve bucks. No lie *puts hand on bible* about five women asked him the name of that cologne in about two hours time. He and I laughed about it because when he wore his usual stuff Polo and the like, no one complemented him much less ask him the name of the cologne or where he brought it from. The funny thing was his wife brought it for him. I wish I could remember the name of the cologne. I would ask a few guys here to buy it and try it out.

    Like


  141. I don’t go after married women, so I don’t know how far they would let me take it, but, holy crap, some of these women act like they are about to bow down and worship you.

    true. i briefly feel bad for their, no doubt, beta husbands. then i remember they chose this.

    i wonder how big a disruption widespread inexpensive paternity testing will be on the social fabric? the suspense is killing me. i hope it lasts!

    Like


  142. Well, the catholic church is much less feminized than the protestant ones. But let’s not forget Nietzsche, who always considered christianity as a religion for slaves founded by slaves. But at least the catholic church does turn a blind eye on marriage of underage teen girls in third world countries.

    Like


  143. As in the previous post on stalkers, where Roissy more or less directly confesses his fear of women who are good in bed — women who are orgasmic are liable to morph into terrifying “stalkers”.

    WTF kinda argument is this?
    Crediting a woman who has (multiple) orgasms to her being good in bed?
    Let me help you out here. Woman has multiple orgasms = man being good in bed. Man pulls out and paints the headboard = woman being good in bed.

    Like


  144. then i remember they chose this.
    SMH &lol

    I wonder how big a disruption widespread inexpensive paternity testing will be on the social fabric
    You can get a DNA test from CVS or dianne reaid typr drug stores now for 50 bucks(?).

    Like


  145. moo:
    Dance monkey dance.

    you so indifferent. you indifferent long time.

    heh. too easy.

    ps so you are a 100% muffmunching dyke?

    chiclet:
    That’s why I think that women who are overweight or obese should still put some effort into it.

    their efforts would be best spent losing the weight, not scrambling to find clothes that do nothing to hide the blubber from men’s eagle eyes.

    Tocora from top model is a big girl but for some reason she appeals to a wide variety of men.

    doubtful. a “wide variety” of men is fathappy code word for a “small fetishistic community” of men.
    if you want to see what the HUGE majority of men prefer, just look at the girls they jerk to. there’s not a fattie in the bunch of playboy centerfolds.

    Like


  146. “i wonder how big a disruption widespread inexpensive paternity testing will be on the social fabric? the suspense is killing me. i hope it lasts!”

    maury povich is a staunch advocate of social justice that has been providing this at no cost to the plebiscite AND throws in a sweet trip to new york with a rendezvous with a sexy decoy in the green room.

    Like


  147. “Tocora from top model is a big girl but for some reason she appeals to a wide variety of men. Many of whom don’t think that heavier women are attractive.”

    Chic,

    Charisma and confidence matter for women too. I saw a 60 year old woman in Paris who to my mind was sexier than half the twenty year olds I knew.

    Now I know my evol psych and that no one here agrees that such a thing is possible but since I am not trying to convince anyone and am simply addressing Chic let’s agree to disagree.

    Like


  148. Roissy said, “true. i briefly feel bad for their, no doubt, beta husbands. then i remember they chose this.”

    …but the ugly truth you run from is that their husbands also chose them.

    I think DNA testing should be done for everyone at birth by default.

    Like


  149. roissy danced, “moo:”

    Again!

    Like


  150. Re Toccara:
    I bet Mu would love her

    Like


  151. that’s probably true, glad you were man enough to admit that though i suspect there would gradually be a diminishment in their beauty regime as time passed in this manless world.

    I see women becoming a bit more avant guarde in their beauty regimes and fashion choices if men disappear. Think less Tyra & Cindy Crawford in their prime and more Kate Lampleir and Paris Vogue editors.

    Like


  152. hello
    Re Toccara:
    I bet Mu would love her
    *shakes head in agreement*
    I think Mu mentioed her before.
    Roissy would probably go for her too as much as he would like to deny it.

    Hello, I have another hot light skinned Black guy for you. Goggle Van Vicker, he is a Ghanaian actor. He is a true pretty boy.

    Like


  153. Well, the catholic church is much less feminized than the protestant ones.

    Correction: Catholicism is less feminized than the liberal protestant ones, but is far, faaaar less male friendly than evangelical churches.

    Like


  154. Hello

    Ramsey Noah is Nigerian and not as pretty but he will do.

    Like


  155. I’ve noticed that black women can carry more weight than whites, perhaps because of they’re more muscular.

    Like


  156. Roissyif you want to see what the HUGE majority of men prefer, just look at the girls they jerk to. there’s not a fattie in the bunch of playboy centerfolds
    Well my dear since playboy started to use bots instead of the pretty girls next door in its mag, it’s numbers have gone down. Hugh addressed this a couple of years ago.

    Agnostic and I agreed that the women who are in playboy today no longer look like women. When Anna Nicole Smith was in Playboy she looked like a real woman. Go look at the women in Playboy from the 60 up until the 80’s to see what a good looking real woman looks like.

    BTW, Tocarra and Playboy Anna Nicole Smith are about the same size.

    Futhermore, the women in French playboy are women* who most of the men here would not find very attractive. It’s the problem that many of you “evol psych ” people run up against.

    *goggle Lily Cole, Lou Doillion for starters.

    Like


  157. moocow chewed her cud:
    …but the ugly truth you run from is that their husbands also chose them.

    fail. i was talking about the husbands.

    oh, so close!

    roissy danced, “moo:”

    Again!

    spot the irony.

    ps when your… *retch*… lezbo lover goes down on you does she use a 2×4 to pry apart the folds? it must be like spelunking into a smelly pube encrusted cave. or a tar pit.

    chiclet:
    glad you were man enough to admit that

    noting when you say something halfway truthful is not a sign of manliness. i only call out the lies for my sadistic brand of justice. but you knew that.

    Think less Tyra & Cindy Crawford in their prime and more Kate Lampleir and Paris Vogue editors.

    no boring fashion talk.

    Roissy would probably go for her too as much as he would like to deny it.

    no fat chicks.

    Like


  158. DV

    I think perhaps some modern Islamic societies are quite similar in their sexual and social mores to ancient Mediterranean societies, especially Greece. The women were controlled, kept inside, while the older men preyed on younger, teenage types for sexual fun.

    Like


  159. hello
    I’ve noticed that black women can carry more weight than whites, perhaps because of they’re more muscular

    People here have said this but I honestly don’t see a muscular difference between blks and whites. I’ve noticed that black American women are shaped differently than most white American women and carry 20 extra pounds a bit easier.
    Note, not all black women are curvy, I’ve seen some black women from Central Africa who were built like sticks and some white women(Italian, Greek ,and Jewish) who are very curvy.

    Like


  160. Roissy would probably go for her too as much as he would like to deny it.

    no fat chicks

    So Anna Nicole Smith was too fat for you when she was in Playmate of the year?
    Forget being Alpha and just be honest. She was very beautiful back them.

    Like


  161. Lily Cole is stunning, like a pre-Raphaelite painting. I wonder what the aesthetic of the bleached-blond implant bot says about the American soul?

    Yes, I agree with you about the limits of evol psych. The guys here sometimes try to slam me with it to make me cry when I read it all ten years ago. Sailer too. It’s too easy to spin sophistry about your preferences being natural and everyone else being cloaking the law of the jungle with pretty lies.

    Like


  162. People here have said this but I honestly don’t see a muscular difference between blks and whites.

    oh lord, not this again.

    here are 3 sources.
    (1) this thing (go to page 22 if it doesn’t redirect you)
    (2) this other thing
    (3) OPEN YOUR EYES AND LOOK.

    i prefer choice #3.

    i have extremely fond memories of athletic black women whose dress sizes were double digits, yet on whom nothing jiggled even with vigorous slapping.

    also, a seductive natural smell is a huge attractant for me; in my moderately sized samples, black girls’ natural smells have simply been better, and more arousing, than white girls’.

    but, back to the topic at hand, they have more muscle mass than do white women.

    Like


  163. he posts in this clinical, neutered way, like he’s answering a question on a college exam. Does he even know how to converse with regular people?

    No, David Alexander doesn’t know how to have a conversation with regular people.

    If you’re gonna white knight like a little faggy betabitchboy, it makes sense to go out on a limb for a decent looking girl

    If I’m going to look for a cuddlebitch, warmth and friendliness is the primary concern, while beauty is less important. If I’m not going to bang her, how she looks is less important when compared with how she hugs.

    you enjoy pulling shit like this out of your ass, eh?

    I generally try to avoid pulling shit out of my ass whether the conversation is in regards to women or trains. As I stated, I’m explaining things from my perspective which is different from yours.

    As I stated before, my concerns with your remarks have been that you’re promising beta males a surplus of beautiful high ranking women that would only exist if said women would lose weight. The problem is that if this is true, that just adds to more women to your pool to collude upon since they’ll use their beauty to go chase alphas. Of course, my contention is the the “pretty” fat girls can become 7s, but a sizable portion of fat girls in the low range are only going to become skinny girls of lower rank. Hell, Wellesley Queen lost weight and it did nothing for her…

    Like


  164. on December 23, 2008 at 10:24 pm ironrailsironweights

    Go look at the women in Playboy from the 60 up until the 80’s to see what a good looking real woman looks like.

    The heyday of the GNP.

    Peter

    Like


  165. then i remember they chose this.

    This is unjust. Many of them are people of genuine good will who have been systematically lied to about male-female relations. Cuckoldry is an overly harsh punishment to pay for such ignorance. There but for the grace of God go you and I.

    Like


  166. chiclet:
    Well my dear since playboy started to use bots instead of the pretty girls next door in its mag, it’s numbers have gone down.

    circulation has gone down because of internet porn. hey, why pay?
    (bots?)

    When Anna Nicole Smith was in Playboy she looked like a real woman.

    anna was fuckable before she bloated up into a fat sack of shit. in her playboy days she was the thinner version of herself.

    Go look at the women in Playboy from the 60 up until the 80’s to see what a good looking real woman looks like.

    define real.
    and btw, you’re not presenting any evidence that playboy, which for most of the magazine’s existence (up until the recent boom in net porn) was the go-to source of wackoff material for men, ever featured fat chicks in their centerfolds. in fact, quite the contrary. most centerfolds fell well within the range of attractive BMIs (17-23) and waist hip ratio (0.7).

    Futhermore, the women in French playboy are women* who most of the men here would not find very attractive.

    does the french playboy mag serve as masturbation material for frenchmen, or is it an arty mag for coffee tables?
    seems to me, if you look at the average parisian chick, that frenchmen are getting it on with some very sexy slender babes.
    and when they come over here, those french guys sure do a lot of complaining about the fat american chicks.
    not that i blame them.

    It’s the problem that many of you “evol psych ” people run up against.

    chic, there are reputable studies showing that worldwide men from all sorts of different cultures have pretty similar tastes in women. notably, they like 0.7 WHRs, youth, nice tits, clear skin, big eyes, and generally feminine facial features. in the matter of universal sexual attractiveness traits, the evopsych crowd is close to spot on.
    where they might need an adjustment to their darwinian theories of mate selection is in the area of racial preferences. that is, based on my personal observations, there do seem to be slight differences between the major races in what is considered optimally attractive. i.e. black guys like a little more junk in the trunk, asian guys like less muscled chicks.

    *goggle Lily Cole, Lou Doillion for starters.

    two girls does not make a trend.

    chic, do you ever change your tune when countervailing evidence to the contary is presented, or do you just go on la-dee-daing in your chiclet way, oblivious to the facts disproving your easily disprovable pet equalist theories? cause if it’s the latter, i wanna know up front so i can stop treating you like a normal human being worthy of my time.

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  167. Charisma and confidence matter for women too. I saw a 60 year old woman in Paris who to my mind was sexier than half the twenty year olds I knew
    Cosign

    During that whole Christie Brinkly beef I had with Agnostic and Thursday, I wanted to mention the special appeal of Carmen Dell’Orefice. I decided to keep quite instead. I think Clio would appreciate Carmen’s appeal.

    BTW, I know that Carmen is too old to inspire a woody in most men but I think most men(-American) can agree that she is a very attractive and captivating older woman.

    Now I know my evol psych and that no one here agrees that such a thing is possible but since I am not trying to convince anyone and am simply addressing Chic let’s agree to disagree
    LOL throw holy water on them before they can bare their fangs.

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  168. “To blame porn for all that is afflicting Western social adhesion is to miss the forest for the trees.”

    That reminds me of Devlin’s piece where he mentions that conservative journalists step all over each other to blame men for unmarried single mothers and unhappy single women. They always gripe about men being cads, when in reality, many of these women have had multiple offers from sincere men who wanted to be faithful husbands.

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  169. here i go responding to a fictional persona again:

    So for your average married male, even if your wife is a thin 5, and the girls in porn are “7 + makeup”, I don’t think that there’s anything in the world that will make your wife more alluring.

    (1) multisensory input >>> purely audiovisual input.
    the smells, textures, physical sensations, tastes, sweat, shivers, and other assorted ecstasies of sex – which are absolutely crucial in maintaining attraction in any man with more than a sliver of sexual experience – are absent from porn.

    (2) porn isn’t interactive.
    if the importance of this isn’t self-evident, please go shoot yourself now.

    (3) emotions make sex better.
    yes, you heard it from me, of all people.
    hot sex becomes even hotter in the context of a relationship, sometimes regardless of whether the relationship is dysfunctional or eufunctional.

    kthxbai.

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  170. Futhermore, the women in French playboy are women* who most of the men here would not find very attractive. It’s the problem that many of you “evol psych ” people run up against.

    *goggle Lily Cole, Lou Doillion for starters.

    They’re pretty hot. So, your example doesn’t exactly discredit evol psych.

    Nancy Etcoff’s Survival of the Prettiest would be a good place to start if you were actually interested in the science of this stuff.

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  171. DA:
    As I stated, I’m explaining things from my perspective which is different from yours.

    DA, your perspective is different from 99% of all men.
    hope you are aware of that.

    As I stated before, my concerns with your remarks have been that you’re promising beta males a surplus of beautiful high ranking women that would only exist if said women would lose weight.

    again with the ass-pulling. nowhere did i promise a “surplus of beautiful high ranking women” to beta males in the event of a massive fat-off.
    my words were clear: the numbers of attractive chicks would undoubtedly rise if they lost weight.

    The problem is that if this is true, that just adds to more women to your pool to collude upon since they’ll use their beauty to go chase alphas.

    and this is where you go off the rails into trolldom.
    more attractive women means each individual attractive woman commands less market power. it’s simple human economics.

    Of course, my contention is the the “pretty” fat girls can become 7s, but a sizable portion of fat girls in the low range are only going to become skinny girls of lower rank.

    but her rank will still improve. a thin chick with a butterface will rate higher than a fat chick with a supersized butterface.

    Hell, Wellesley Queen lost weight and it did nothing for her…

    anecdote, heal thyself.

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  172. they like 0.7 WHRs, youth, nice tits, clear skin, big eyes, and generally feminine facial features

    Roissy I don’t debate any of this. Please tell me which one of the above Anna Nicole Smith in her peak as Guess model and Playmate didn’t meet.
    Roissy, the women I link to(for the most part) for you guys to check out have that sort of look. There are older chics who have that look like Gabrielle Union(38).

    hello
    Lily Cole is stunning, like a pre-Raphaelite painting

    I agree. I like her much more than the more famous alien/baby faced model Gemma Ward(clio’s fav of the two). She has the type of face that I can’t stop looking at.

    When Anna Nicole Smith was in Playboy she looked like a real woman.

    anna was fuckable before she bloated up into a fat sack of shit. in her playboy days she was the thinner version of herself

    At her peak she was a size 12-14 Roissy. That’s the largest size you can find in some American stores. A few don’t sell size 14. At her peak, she would not fit the largest size of most French and some Italian high-end designers.
    does the french playboy mag serve as masturbation material for frenchmen
    Yes
    seems to me, if you look at the average parisian chick, that frenchmen are getting it on with some very sexy slender babes
    Goggle the women Roissy, the two I mention are very slender as well as flatter chested(PA’s taste).
    goggle Lily Cole, Lou Doillion for starters.

    two girls does not make a trend.
    they are the two I could name off the top of my head. You can google for more covers.

    there do seem to be slight differences between the major races in what is considered optimally attractive. i.e. black guys like a little more junk in the trunk, asian guys like less muscled chicks
    Again, kudos for you for keeping it real. Some people just want to win an argument and could care less about the truth. I’ve gone back and fourth with some people here about this.

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  173. @Roissy,Thursday

    Well, loosely it’s a little over $200 for a rigorous valid paternity DNA test. Every biotech cycle loosely drops the price in half. So in about 8 years it should cost a little over $12 bucks per test.

    And yes, when I was younger and didn’t understand as much, the unintended spark of attraction in the married MILF crowd was… disconcerting. Now, if anything like that would happen, I would bow out gracefully. If the MILF wants to destroy her marriage, be my guest, but leave me out!

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  174. NicoleLack of harmless outlets for certain impulses leads to real perversion, not just imagined ones.
    Co sign
    Most of those guys were messed up to begin with, and she thought she’d change him.
    I saw this on Dr. Phil a few weeks ago. A woman married a guy who was bi and a nympho. He has given 80 bj to random men he met in “those” type of shops.
    St.Hard The reason we have so much porn is that there are a whole lotta ladies who just love to tease and “shag” and get paid for it into the bargain.

    Recall that not so long ago most people got married in their teens.Today this is no longer possible;and I would add it has nothing to do with porn,and a lot to do with a skewed economy buttressed by female greed.Postponing sex until your eighteen or nineteen is one thing,postponing it until you earn at least a Masters Degree so that you can earn the right to buy a suitably priced bride/mercenary/whore and with her, the parchment with the Church’s imprimatur licensing you to have sex, is another.
    Cosign with this partially. I’ve made mention of the fact that I don’t expect people to remain virgins until 30. The Bush “folk” were allegedly hashing some type of campaign to target the older unmarried group with an abstinence campaign. I think it’s a bad idea and a waste of money.

    As most of you know, I don’t have a problem with p0*n persay. It’s the perverted hateful demeaning stuff that I hate. If you look at 80’s-mid 90’s movies you notice that the women seem to have had a really good time. That could be because there were fewer actresses and actors so it was more like a big happy family of freaks who were comfortable with each other. The women in the movies today are obviously faking,embarrased, and are often in pain. I sometimes feel like I’m watching ra*e for pay. Men did not do money shots in the 80’s-mid90s mainstream stuff. Women didn’t swallow stuff & face plucks were unheard of back then. There was no bottom- to- mouth stuff in the mainstream back then either. The hatred that men have for women has made its way to the mainstream.

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  175. thursday, lou dillion and lily cole don’t appeal to men in the same way that the French newswoman does. You and Peter have someting in common, the unconvential beauty appeals to both of you.

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  176. Re: johnny five

    While I agree with you that a real life girl can provide for those first two factors that you indicated, a warm living human is pointless for sex if it doesn’t induce arousal. An ugly girl’s blow job shouldn’t induce an erection, and if it does, you’re a pathetic weak failure as a male.

    DA, your perspective is different from 99% of all men.
    hope you are aware of that.

    I am well aware of the fact that I am a freak in a world of normal humans.

    more attractive women means each individual attractive woman commands less market power. it’s simple human economics.

    Dude, why the hell would a fat girl who was stuck with losers slightly better than me lose weight to waste her time with beta males? All women want alpha males, and these women are going to be even bigger holdouts for a small piece of an alpha male. Women only put up with beta males as long as they’re forced to do so. Nobody ever actively wants a beta male, and even if the guy uses game, once he stops tricking her, she’ll begin hunting for a real man.

    a thin chick with a butterface will rate higher than a fat chick with a supersized butterface.

    Yes, but why are men wasting their time with the thin butterface girls? Those women shouldn’t be involved in any sexual activity at all.

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  177. *American men in the same way*
    “There is no puff out my chest look at my hot peace” when walking down the street.

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  178. a thin chick with a butterface will rate higher than a fat chick with a supersized butterface.

    True but a think chick with a butterface versus a thick small end of fat chic with a very cute face is up for debate.

    ThursdayThey’re pretty hot. So, your example doesn’t exactly discredit evol psych
    Show me a cover from American Playboy in the last ten years that featured women who looked like either of the two.

    when they come over here, those french guys sure do a lot of complaining about the fat american chicks
    I agree. I’ve never denied this.
    define real.
    A pretty girl who looks like the girl next door. The Diana Biancie(tp) chic fits this description. She may have had plastic surgery but it’s not noticeable.
    The bots featured in the magazine now are not real women.
    and btw, you’re not presenting any evidence that playboy
    You can goggle the covers, there is a web site that fetures the covers from the 50-80s. which for most of the magazine’s existence (up until the recent boom in net porn) was the go-to source of wackoff material for men, ever featured fat chicks in their centerfolds. in fact, quite the contrary. most centerfolds fell well within the range of attractive BMIs (17-23) and waist hip ratio (0.7).
    I never said Playboy featured fat chics. Larger shapely women like Anna Nicole Smith at her peak, Marilynn Monroe, Sophia Loren, and the red head form Mad men are the type of women I have in mind Roissy. All of those women have an hourglass figure but are not very thin. Many of the very thin women are lacking an hourglass figure.

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  179. bots- The fake Hollywood Playboy stripper look. Google the women from Rock Of Love, most of them have it. Huge hard fake breasts, fish lips, fake tan, super tight clothes etc… The beautiful blonde look is done right by Christy Brinkly and Melissa Theuriau.

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  180. To me, Kymberly Jane is the ideal female. She isn’t a fake looking sex bot. Having her body isn’t the result of surgery or crash dieting: it is from good genetics, a healthy diet and regular exercise.

    Aside from genetics, almost all women can eat healthy and go exercise everyday. There is no excuse.

    See her amazing photos here. NSFW, nudity (delightful nudity, if I might add). It isn’t porn though.

    Look, I would love to be a father and husband. I was engaged to a woman from Bulgaria when I was 25, but she was killed in a car accident before the fiance visa went through. I’m 32 soon to be 33 (this weekend), and one big reason I’m in the Army is because I totally needed a new direction after losing that woman. She looked very similar to the model I posted, except blond with green eyes.

    She was everything I’d ever want in a women, and I have only ever met a few here from America that came close. They were already taken.

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  181. “Yes, but why are men wasting their time with the thin butterface girls? Those women shouldn’t be involved in any sexual activity at all.”

    If only your mother lived by that philosophy.

    Instead we’ve got to read your drivel.

    Great comments here from some commenters (J5, Mu, Thursday and others), mixed bag from others (chic noir, nicole (unless it has to do with evaluating attractiveness)) and constant drivel from others (david alexander, sara).

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  182. “Larger shapely women like Anna Nicole Smith at her peak, Marilynn Monroe, Sophia Loren, and the red head form Mad men are the type of women I have in mind Roissy. All of those women have an hourglass figure but are not very thin. Many of the very thin women are lacking an hourglass figure.”

    Chic,

    You’re missing the point by far. American women haven’t gone from Kate Moss at her modeling peak to Anna Nicole at her playboy peak. They’ve gone from normal female size to fat Oprah size.

    Congratulations! You’ve shown that men prefer shapely larger women to non shapely small women. Now try arguing with a point that someone actually made.

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  183. No one is complaining about women carrying some extra weight. If they have a good figure and keep it that way, then that isn’t a deal breaker. But seriously, there are just way to many hefty women today. It is ridiculous.

    Who likes to be cockblocked by Greenpeace? Just say no to fat chicks. We are hoping to make a difference here, shame is a powerful motivator.

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  184. Lily Cole has a sweet body and fantastic hair but like Chic implied, her face is very cherubic. I find it hard to view her in a sexual manner.

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  185. Chic — I think you are making a mistake of the kind that women (sorry, in my experience) often make — using personal examples or individuals on the tail of the distribution to make a point. It’s like pulling out Yao Ming and Verne Troyer and saying they represent the average height of Chinese and American men. Because they are in fact Chinese and American men.

    If you want to find out what most men find attractive (excluding the fattie obsessors, on the one hand and the Rock of Love gal lovers on the other), you must look at the aggregate of what the market delivers: Hollywood actresses, between 16-28, various male-appealing female TV personalities (such as Kari Byron from Mythbusters, and excluding female-appealing ones like Rachel Ray), and the broad spectrum of pr0n performers. At this point, Playboy and other pr0n magazines are simply out-performed by the internet, though “lad” magazines like Maxim and Stuff and FHM are probably good data points collectively.

    If you aggregate them all together, the points Roissy makes are what defines on the average Male attraction: youth, younger is better up to a point, slender figures, big expressive eyes, more curves than fashion models but less hourglass figures than say, Marilyn Monroe.

    Good point about Oprah’s audiences. Thanks for pointing that out to me.

    Re Christy Brinkley. She was and is a tremendous physical specimen. But she’s human and subject to aging. Even she, with her beauty, was no match in her fifties for a teen age babysitter even though she bore her husband a child IIRC. This is why it is critical for women to exercise good judgment in selecting men. Elizabeth Hurley, another great beauty, also arrogantly assumed her beauty was eternal and all powerful, when obviously it was not.

    Women, in many ways, are ill served long term. Because while the current system of punishing beta males and advantaging women (attractive ones anyway, and most reasonably fit women age 16-32 are quite attractive) and Alpha males. Short run at least for women, but long-term disastrous. Because they trade away the opportunity for selecting a beta man on traits of lifetime devotion, and less likelihood of cheating, for excitement with Alpha males.

    That might be a trade worth making, but IMHO women should be aware that the trade is being made, that it cannot be un-made, it is permanent (at a certain point), and the trade is in it’s essentials: lots of exciting sex now in turn for loneliness and social isolation and unhappiness later, including really no real male companionship after attractiveness fades.

    Women ALWAYS overestimate their beauty, it’s power, and it’s duration. Many women get fooled into thinking that because men pursue them now, they can have as many Alphas as they want and betas will still pursue them when they can no longer land the Alphas. “The fallback” relationship and marriage. Blogger “Dawn Summers” is pretty frank about the challenges a woman in her thirties faces, with men who were unsuitable in her twenties now all that she’s left with, and the men themselves the predictable consequence of conditioned failure with women.

    Maybe women would make that trade, up-front, knowing the back end is likely to be very unhappy. But generally the reaction I have seen and read is that they never understood that was the deal, overestimating their beauty and attraction.

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  186. beta man on traits of lifetime devotion

    Even if one was to replicate a 1950s-style environment today, I don’t see any incentive for a beta male to work himself to death for a woman and children when you can stay single and cash out and enjoy yourself. A girlfriend/wife and children are essentially things that get in way of travel, photography, driving to the middle of nowhere, and riding trains.

    less likelihood of cheating, for excitement with Alpha males

    Actually, if one is waiting until one’s thirties to have children out of reasons for financial security, then it doesn’t make sense to go date boring beta males and be married by twenty five when you go out, have some fun, bang some hot guys, and then stumble upon beta when you need him. Hell, it works out for the beta since he gets to play Xbox and see strippers without being nagged to death during his youth. So instead of wasting youth in boring humdrum marriages, those in their twenties can go out and enjoy their lives, and then use their thirties to work on boring stuff like marriage and kids.

    including really no real male companionship after attractiveness fades.

    Eh, there’s always a lonely beta who can use companionship…

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  187. Well, for my money-and I say this as a Brotha-Anna Nicole Smith could get it dall day, everyday, in every way from Mu. In her day, she was THE BOMB. And I don’t even go in for the fake boobs, and I’d overlook that in her case. As far as I’m concerned, she was just right. In fact, my current “Brown Sugar” is in essence, a Black ANS-same height, hourglass figure etc-the only difference being, that she’s got an all natural 40DD rack (and a bit more junk in the trunk, as R indicated).

    As for Porn, I have to agree with Chic. One of thee hottest porn flicks I’ve ever seen was Taboo, starring the 36 year old Kay Parker. Her two scenes in particular with Mike Ranger tops anything out there today in terms of its sensuality, hotness and most important for this forum in my view, *seduction*. Chic’s right, the Women back then were clearly having a better time than the Women of today. And, more than the potential misogyny extant in much of porn today, that’s really what’s missing from porn now, the seduction angle. And I think that’s really sad.

    At any rate, Roissy’s point here is valid: that the Sexual Needs of Men, particularly those considered in the Beta Class, not only aren’t taken seriously, but are being used as a way to batter the BMs of the world into utter despair and submission to the interests of an ever-increasing Matriarchy, where lots of Women can then go and get their piece of those deemed Alpha Males. Its a very sad thing to see, and I don’t know what the endgame is, given that a clear majority of American Women ARE obese, and growing. In this I truly feel for my White Brothers. We may share a differing aesthetic, but that doesn’t stop me from having a profound sense of empathy for their plight.

    Salaam
    Mu

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  188. where lots of Women can then go and get their piece of those deemed Alpha Males

    But that’s the problem. If women are chasing after alpha males, even if we were to “restrict” women’s access to alpha males, what’s the incentive for me to go deal with a woman when I know that deep down inside, she’d rather have an alpha male instead of me. Unless we find a way to give women their alphas while giving betas women that they’re attracted to, we’re stuck with this situation.

    the Women back then were clearly having a better time than the Women of today

    I tend to avoid scenes and movies in general where the girls are either bored or just outright miserable, but to me, it seems that the women are having a good time. Mind you, I stay away from the boring porn, and I am for “raincoaters” porn which is generally more popular with guys who frequently use porn, but stays away from the really extreme stuff.

    Mu, one must remember that porn stars in the 1980s tended to be the ugly looking freaks who just happened to make some money while fucking. Jenna Jameson and other girls like her changed the industry in the 90s by bringing bored girls who saw the money first with the sex as a secondary affair.

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  189. is christianity all that alpha to begin with? is any religion? the whole idea behind organized religion is that there is one leader and whole bunch of followers.

    ‘the lord is my shepherd…’
    ‘blessed are the meek..’
    none of that sounds terribly alpha.

    I concur. My sister attended a Catholic university. I was at one of her friends weddings. During, the preist chose a reading that said something about rejecting ambition. I looked up, straight above my head, and made note that there was a good hundred-some feet between myself and the vaulted marble ceiling of the University’s cathedral. I made note of the detail of the stained glass windows on either side of the main room. I also was reminded of all the modern construction that was in various stages around the campus, the brand new multistory student apartments.

    Nothing around me seemed to be rejecting ambition. I guess the clergy on campus weren’t doing a very good job.

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  190. Are these women ‘real beauties’ or deluded fatties?

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  191. Anon,
    I see no problem with the Women featured in the ad. But then again, my views are a bit different from Roissy and others here.

    Dave Alex,
    The incentive for you to do better is you not meeting an Evolutionary End. Its really that simple. At any time a Man can choose to take himself out of the “hunt” so to the speak. It seems by all accounts that you have chosen Genetic Annihilation. So be it.

    Salaam
    Mu

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  192. Steve

    constant drivel from others (david alexander, sara).

    Thanks for noticing.

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  193. Its a very sad thing to see, and I don’t know what the endgame is, given that a clear majority of American Women ARE obese, and growing. In this I truly feel for my White Brothers. We may share a differing aesthetic, but that doesn’t stop me from having a profound sense of empathy for their plight.

    Mu, if everyone had your attitude to people of other races, that would be the Final Solution to the Race Question. 🙂 You’re a fine man.

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  194. Just some random thoughts.

    ADSF, (hope I got the acronym right), w/o question the nature of the Church will change as more non-Whites enter it. But that’s nothing new; what I’m saying to you is that the non-White influence on the Church, and here I’m speaking specifically to Black/African influence, has been not just a part of the Church, but a staple of it.

    We see this in the ancient Assyrian/Ethiopian Christians and their contribution; the ancient Egyptians and the Coptic Church and so on. Also, it must be noted that “debate” still rages on wrt St. Augustine’s heritage. Some assert, as you seem to be doing, that he was “merely” African, but couldn’t possibly be Black. I argue that he was Black and that there are many Whites who have a hard time accepting this, just like they can’t accept the very real chance that Jesus PBUH himself, was non-White and looked a lot closer to Martin Luther King than to Billy Graham. No dis to the latter, btw.

    American Christianity has been immeasurably enriched by the African American contribution to the Church; from the sterling example of Christianity at its best by MLK & SCLC to Richard Allen and his formation of the AME Church, to the very nature of worship itself. Everyone here knows that Black folk *bring it* on Sunday morning, and the style of preachin’ is studied on university campuses (again, no dis to BG, but he ain’t got nothin’ on MLK-compare and contrast).

    Indeed, the Black influence on the Church has been so deep and so pervasive, that it has spread into the wider society; tell me ADSF, how many White performers can you identify that came directly from the Church? In Black America, they are legion. Right now as I type this I’m listening to D’Angelo’s debut 1995 album, “Brown Sugar” and the Black Church influence is undeniable; D’Angelo plays the Hammond organ on many of the tracks, including the title track, and his style of singing is clearly a throwback to the “swing low” style Old Negro Spirituals. Jennifer Hudson (who, btw, I think is very attractive), the Woman who outshone Beyonce’ and got an Oscar for her perfomance in “Showgirls”, was another singer directly influenced by the Black Church. And say what you will about Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, or for that matter Rev Jeremiah Wright, few White preachers can do it like they can.

    Now, don’t get me wrong here. I have immense for Pope John Paul II, aka John Paul the Great, and the current Pope, Benedict XVI is a man after my own heart. I am deeply grateful for what the White Quakers have done for my people, and I respect John Brown’s contribution as well. The Cistine Chapel is the bomb, as are many of the other ancient church structures throughout Europe and Russia. All of that is to be lauded and commended.

    But what I reject, soundly and forcefully, is the notion you have tossed out there, that somehow the Church will be “tainted” by getting an infusion of African DNA-“Thid Worlders” as you put it. W/all due respect, sir, I take that as an affront, and again, I say this as a Non-Christian. Christians of Color have bled just as much, have worked just as hard, have prayed as often, as any White one. And I for one would have expected better of a Believer.

    I think a major point that undergirds Roissy’s argument here, is that Marriage, Fatherhood, all of that, are social institutions. They are only as good as the support they garner from the wider Society. No matter what one’s personal ideological views, it is simply impossible to argue, with a straight face, that a Man has a real stake in getting married in our time. And this is coming from a self-confessed, stompdown Romantic who struggles, everyday, every hour, every minute, with his higher and lower selves. Philosophically, I believe in Marriage. But in realworld, cost/benefit terms, I simply cannot make the cognitive leap. Too much White Noise.

    For anyone, and I mean anyone, to attempt to poo poo the realworld FACT that a clear majority of American Women are obese, is not only to deny the obvious, but its also to seriously insult the basic commonsense of Men. Particularly White Men, because let’s face it, this is an issue of major import to them. No manner of attempting to shift the blame, changing the subject or a kind of rhetorical Jiujitsu is gonna get it.

    Now, having said that, I honestly don’t see what there is to be done about it on the wider societal scale. The umpteen feminist organizations and the like clearly don’t see this as a cause for concern; the nascent “Men’s Rights” groups do not yet have enough clout to make anything happen really. And so on.

    Given the enormity that Sex plays in a Man’s life, this is a sad state of affairs indeed.

    Salaam
    Mu

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  195. David Alexander said:

    Nobody ever actively wants a beta male, and even if the guy uses game, once he stops tricking her, she’ll begin hunting for a real man.

    I’ve done some reading, studying and field testing. I’d say you’re definately tricking women when you start off, using canned routines and the like. But I’d also say there is a lot of permanent self improvement that comes with studying game.

    My posture is better. All the time. At work. In class. Not just when I’m around women.

    My tone of voice is better. I project from the diaphram.

    I’m much more social and entertaining. Learning how to tell stories (and make them interesting) is a skill that can easily be learned. PUA coaches have pointed out several comedy writing books. I forget the text, but one PUA manual pointed me in the direction of Mel Helitzer’s Comedy Writing Scerects. There’s a great annectode in that book of a famous commedian that spent a decent chuck of his childhood copying down the contents of every jokebook he could find until he understood the common engine of humor driving each punchline.

    I’m no longer intimidated by striking up a conversation with anyone. There have been big career perks that have resulted. I now shoot the shit with my employer’s head of European operations (one step beneath the board) a couple times a week about English soccer.

    There is a ton of “fake it ’till you make it” going on among PUAs, but actual personal growth can result.

    I believe Roissy has said that while claiming game is going to land any man 9s and 10s is utter nonsense, it can get most men better than what they’re getting now. I’d concur.

    The claim that PUAs trick girls certainly has some merit. Hopefully, guys make the connection that they need to start living life and start experiencing the humorous, dangerous and interesting aspects of life that make for good stories and DHVs. Studying game has led me to seek out these persuits. Stay in beginner mode, only using canned routines and pretending to live the lives of others and you’re certainly in trouble.

    But, and this is where your claim (which is the same claim many other have made) comes in, David, there is one thing about the “PUAs trick girls” that rubs me the wrong way. If all it takes to trick a woman into getting in bed with me is standing up straight, speaking well, not jumping through her hoops, and being able to hold her interest in conversation while knowing what buttons to push (and what buttons not to push), then I’m not too high on any woman’s right to any equality. They clearly need protection, provided from outside the ranks of their gender, from the big, bad ugly world.

    Like


  196. I don’t know why some people here would pay for porn at places like Brazzers or whatever wheny http://www.redtube.com and http://www.youporn.com offers it completely free.

    Like


  197. Excellently put, Thom.

    And, to Dave Alex: have you read The Game yet?

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  198. One of the most fundamental mistakes when talking about “men” is the failure to distinguish between alphas and betas.

    Just as there’s no distinction made here between which women hold all the power you’re talking about. Because it’s not Women in general, it’s a small subset of the super-hot.

    Contrast with this the relations between males and females, where one’s gender cannot (reasonably) be changed.

    Nor can a woman’s fundamental attractiveness quotient be substantially improved, as has been stated by Roissy in previous posts. So if she’s plain, she’s pretty much doomed, as even men who are 4s still expect to snag an 8 or better.

    Like


  199. of course this is a case where i can just as easily ask the women who post here what they think? what do you think about porn? does it make you angry, jealous, offended, turned on, all of the above?

    I think it’s a useful outlet for those of us who aren’t getting any action in real life. That said, it doesn’t seem like such a great life for the participants, although I don’t know jack about the porn industry and I assume nobody’s holding a gun to their heads.

    I do think it’s doing a disservice in how it presents women: as super-thin but with impossibly large breasts, able to orgasm merely by a man (or group of men) ejaculating in her face….

    Not that there’s anything wrong with that image in and of itself, but seriously, most women do not have HH boobs nor spontaneously orgasm that way. If a young guy watches porn to the exclusion of interacting with actual girls, it could influence his expectations of what’s normal or realistic to the point where only that porn ideal will get him off.

    So in that way, I guess it’s doing the biggest disservice to young men, if it’s their primary source of information, sexually-speaking.

    Like


  200. on December 24, 2008 at 9:49 am ironrailsironweights

    American women haven’t gone from Kate Moss at her modeling peak to Anna Nicole at her playboy peak. They’ve gone from normal female size to fat Oprah size.

    According to my best estimate this is the 11,391st time I’ve made this point:

    Men are getting fatter too.

    Peter

    Like


  201. As my earlier comment was fairly cryptic (I heard crickets there, and granted I was totally off topic), I wrote some longer (very long) explanations in the comments on your Philosophy of Life post. Merry Christmas!

    BTW someone made a comment about married women responding to pickup artist tactics … well, friendships between men & women can have erotic aspects without any physical contact at all, whether women are married or single. Americans tends to be shocked by that and think its a bad thing, whereas French wisely accept it as a fact of life. I like it. Spices things up. As long as lines don’t get crossed & all hell breaks loose (as is also a problem French people have).

    Like


  202. Because it’s not Women in general, it’s a small subset of the super-hot.

    Not true. The problem is Chris Rock’s formulation: 90% of women chasing 10% of men. The average woman in the sexual market holds much more power than the average man.

    Personally, as a smart, funny, good looking, normal guy, my attitude getting into this wasn’t, “Oh my god, I deserve a supermodel.” It was more like, “WTF do you need to do to get a 7 around here?”

    Like


  203. — I do think it’s doing a disservice in how it presents women: as super-thin but with impossibly large breasts,

    Impossibly large breasts are for fetishists. Fake ones are self-mutilation. Very bad.

    The best kind are natural A-B cup; flat-chested can be quite hot too.

    Thin is good. Anna Nicole Smith, even as a cernterfold, was too big for my taste; I was never into the earthmomma big ass/big boobs types.

    Alas, much of porn now shows women with fake boobies, tatoos, piercings, and shaved.

    — Men are getting fatter too.

    What’s that got to do with the price of Brazilian wax in China?

    Like


  204. friendships between men & women can have erotic aspects without any physical contact at all, whether women are married or single.

    Married women have no male friends.

    Like


  205. French wisely accept it as a fact of life.

    Is this whole French thing more a fact or a myth?

    Like


  206. on December 24, 2008 at 10:38 am ironrailsironweights

    Alas, much of porn now shows women with fake boobies, tatoos, piercings, and shaved.

    Tragically so, with respect to the last of those :(((((

    Peter

    Like


  207. PA:

    friendships between men & women can have erotic aspects without any physical contact at all, whether women are married or single.

    Married women have no male friends.

    Me:

    Lovely to hear you’re omniscient. And here I thought God didn’t exist.

    Like


  208. The Dove women are that classic group, 6s who think they’re 9s.
    A guy has to do an awful lot to get a 6 around here, too.

    Like


  209. And here I thought God didn’t exist.

    And I just made you believe?
    Man, my Game is out of control!

    Like


  210. Me: French wisely accept it as a fact of life.

    PA: Is this whole French thing more a fact or a myth?

    Me: You don’t get out much, do you? (Not out of your own little PUA world, anyway …)

    I should qualify what I said, by the way. I like it every now and then. A constant barrage of sexual tension would be tiring. The nice thing about being married is that at least with regard to the rest of the world there’s an off switch.

    Like


  211. Me:

    And here I thought God didn’t exist.

    PA:

    And I just made you believe?
    Man, my Game is out of control!

    Me:

    🙂

    Like


  212. The Chris Rock formulation is dead-on.

    Women used to be semi-rational in this area before the modern day empowerment of women. The breeding impulse was recognized (damn Birth Control Pill, skews everything) and abided by. Women accepted the market judgement pairing off with the male they managed to get. If they pined for alpha, they got it on the side. When widespread paternity testing devastates Western Civ with its 25% illegitimacy rate I for one will be watching the fires from my villa on the hill with my rum-and-coke in hand nodding even as my sex slave gives me a blowjob.

    Now, it’s just a mess. The number of AFC’s is rising exponentially. On the other hand I easily find more women than I could possibly use and the number seems to be going up not down. (And no, I’m good, but not that good.) Put in context this is frightening, because I may be a “hot older dude” (as one youngling put it) but age is a dampening factor. That means other males must be besieged if the overflow is coming my way. Granted alphas experience no scarcity, but excess surplus does no good. Even the maddest alpha isn’t laying 10 women per week.

    Like


  213. According to the Durex Survey, French women have fewer sex partners than Americans, and are fairly low down on the partner list. Turkey has the most partners IIRC.

    Like


  214. I have to agree with Mu’Min. European culture and heritage are indeed open to everyone. My only critique would be that in many countries, cultural patterns that are not very positive still hang on.

    Ireland for centuries refused to join the modern world, in attitudes towards science, technology, and modern social arrangements, as opposed to their nearly identical genetic cousins in Scotland (compare-contrast Irish-Scottish math/science/engineering achievements).

    In New Orleans, many otherwise sensible people still pray to St. Expedite.

    Thus, a proper concern is not racial but cultural. One that extends also to some European nations.

    Like


  215. Whiskey, the French myth no doubt came from Baby Boomers who had listened to that Jane Birkin & Serge Gainsborough song too many times.

    Incidentally, their daughter Charlotte is a fine example of sexy less-than-A-cup proportions!

    Like


  216. European culture and heritage are indeed open to everyone.

    Depends what you mean by “open.” Great, if they want to adopt the European culture and heritage in their own homelands.

    But there is something to be said for preserving the distinctness of various peoples and for that reason a limit must be drawn on how “open” any nation can be to receiving people from different places.

    Like


  217. Just googled Lily Cole. She looks like a zwinky.

    Like


  218. Regarding porn and the Catholic church. It’s my disputed-here opinion that without Catholic church style sexual repression, there would be no porn. Who looks at porn who is a healthy, loving, natural human being? David Alexander is Catholic. I rest my case. He claims that he hasn’t been negatively effected by his Catholic upbringing, is like Patty Hearst saying she wasn’t effected by her kidnappers.

    Like


  219. P.S. I don’t have time to make a long-winded highly researched case supporting my viewpoint. Being right is enough for me.

    Like


  220. The average woman in the sexual market holds much more power than the average man.

    Speaking as an an average woman, this is complete baloney. There aren’t any average guys out there champing at the bit to get his mitts on an average girl. Perhaps this is where porn might be doing them something of a disservice, as might every TV show or movie that features a schlubby guy with a hot chick.

    As Peter continues to point out, women are not the only ones who need to take care of themselves in order to be appealing.

    The problem is Chris Rock’s formulation: 90% of women chasing 10% of men.

    And 90% of men are chasing 10% of women. Men of all ages are fighting over the cream of the crop of women, because they all think they’re entitled to “the best”. The problem is, a lot of them are vastly overestimating their market value, but still won’t stoop to dating a 5 or 6.

    That is not the fault of all women, least of all the 6s and below who end up spending a lot of time alone.

    Like


  221. Blue,
    If I may, recently here in the forum Gordan and Roissy had a similar conversation; Roissy summed it up in this way:

    Women have fewer eggs; Men have more sperm. In pure economic terms, the former invariably has more market-rate value, and the latter does not.

    In other words, Women are more valuable than are Men, all things being equal.

    Roissy further contended, that this “bio-econ” situation has a direct and lasting, psychosocial effect on relations between Men and Women. He then asked Gordan if he agreed, or disagreed, with the proposition; I followed up the very same question originally put to Gordan by Roissy, which was twice.

    To date, Gordan has yet to directly acknowledge or refute, Roissy’s contention.

    So, I would like to put the same question to you, since you question the basic premise that average women have more intrinsic sexual marketplace power than do average men-do you accept, or reject, Roissy’s premise as I have laid it out above, and if so/not, why?

    Your response, please?

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  222. Women have fewer eggs; Men have more sperm. In pure economic terms, the former invariably has more market-rate value, and the latter does not.

    In other words, Women are more valuable than are Men, all things being equal.

    You can posit this only if procreation is the ultimate (if not the only) gauge by which you’re judging the value of people, but that’s obviously not the case. Procreation is something devoutly to be avoided in the dating sphere. Whether or not a woman is fertile is not the primary quality that’s going to bring the boys to the yard.

    And even if procreation were the be-all, end-all, it’s still average-or-worse women who are going to be passed up, because no man is going to choose to have her “inferior” DNA tainting his offspring.

    I reject the premise because it discounts too many other relevant influences, and generalizes too much. It’s just not that simple.

    Like


  223. Just googled Lily Cole. She looks like a zwinky.

    Or a pre-raphaelite Madonna.

    Like


  224. Blue–

    The notion that “no man is going to choose to have her “inferior” DNA tainting his offspring” is such unbelievable crap I don’t know where to start, but I’ll try:

    First, as has been pointed out in these threads all too many times, it’s “mommy’s baby, daddy’s maybe”, so that a man can’t be sure who’s tainting whom.

    Second, the marginal and opportunity costs to a man of getting his DNA tainted are practically negligible. A healthy pair of balls produces 3,000 sperm per SECOND, so the only limiting factor in tainting is the number of willing females to taint. A man can father literally thousands of children, and if he plays his cards right, doesn’t even have to acknowledge them!

    Third, the pursuit of procreation IS the be-all. If it weren’t the human race would have gone extinct long ago. Most of us don’t recognize that consciously (even though this site has spent countless pages on it), but that is simply the way it is.

    Like


  225. Sara blathered:

    Regarding porn and the Catholic church. It’s my disputed-here opinion that without Catholic church style sexual repression, there would be no porn. Who looks at porn who is a healthy, loving, natural human being? David Alexander is Catholic. I rest my case. He claims that he hasn’t been negatively effected by his Catholic upbringing, is like Patty Hearst saying she wasn’t effected by her kidnappers.

    Of course, now this clearly explains the popularity of pornography in Japan and China; it’s that horrid Papist repression.

    Blue wrote:

    You can posit this only if procreation is the ultimate (if not the only) gauge by which you’re judging the value of people, but that’s obviously not the case.

    No one claimed procreation is the ne plus ultra of “human value” (whatever that means), only that it was the most important ultimate determinant of sexual market value.

    And even if procreation were the be-all, end-all, it’s still average-or-worse women who are going to be passed up, because no man is going to choose to have her “inferior” DNA tainting his offspring.

    As sestamibi said above, males and females have differing reproductive opportunity costs. A man can copulate several times a day with different women whereas women lose (in pre-agricultural societies) two or three years of reproductive time for each pregnancy. This is why women are almost always the selectors in sexual pairings as their resource is, by far, the scarcer of the two.

    Like


  226. You can posit this only if procreation is the ultimate (if not the only) gauge by which you’re judging the value of people, but that’s obviously not the case.

    Oh brother…

    Like


  227. And, to Dave Alex: have you read The Game yet?

    Obviously not.

    If all it takes to trick a woman into getting in bed with me is…then I’m not too high on any woman’s right to any equality.

    No, it simply means that you managed to ape some characteristics of an alpha male, and you were thus able to trick her. It doesn’t mean that women are undeserving of their rights, but it only reinforces my theory that women only want alphas.

    most women do not have HH boobs nor spontaneously orgasm that way

    Which is rather sad, IMHO…

    The best kind are natural A-B cup; flat-chested can be quite hot too.

    I would reject any girls with a cup size smaller than D…

    Women accepted the market judgement pairing off with the male they managed to get

    No, they simply scrambled for a beta male that would take care of them financially so they wouldn’t starve. Thanks to birth control and middle class wages for women, they don’t need beta males anymore.

    Hell, once the price of homes collapses, there’s even less need for beta males to serve as the co-signer for a home. Of course, I’m one of the few people who thinks the decoupling of beta males from financial security for women is one of the greatest things for the average male because it allows women to chase after the men that they really want, while allowing the beta male to spend his money on himself instead of some woman who only uses him. Crappy orgasmless sex is not worth the cost of an average woman.

    Second, the marginal and opportunity costs to a man of getting his DNA tainted are practically negligible.

    It is marginal, but one would suspect that in some males, one would cringe at knowing that one of his offspring was ruined by inferior qualities of his mother. In other words, even if one doesn’t invest in all of his children, one would hope that they’re all fit and strong to survive.

    Like


  228. Dave Alex,
    But I was under the impression that you *would* read The Game. Have you changed your mind, sir? And if so, why?

    Please explain?

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  229. *Mu turns to the Gentlemen of the Forum*

    OK fellas. You’ve seen Blue’s response to my question. So let’s take up a tally:

    Would the number of Men present signify “I” in favor of choosing a Woman who gives all the signs of NOT being Fertile?

    Don’t everyone signify at once…

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  230. But I was under the impression that you *would* read The Game. Have you changed your mind, sir? And if so, why?

    Since I’m too cheap to pay for it, I’m waiting until I have time to skim the book for free at my local bookstore.

    Like


  231. “Since I’m too cheap to pay for it, I’m waiting until I have time to skim the book for free at my local bookstore.”

    Public libraries, darling!

    Like


  232. Dave, c’mon bruh. You said you was gonna read the darned thing, now you changing up the goalposts. See, I an’t Roissy and I ain’t the other gents up in here. So I’m not gonna go for your Keith Sweat sh*t talk, I’m gonna, I’m gonna. If you can pay for railfanning, porn, and digital cameras, you can afford what, $20 to get The Game.

    You’re running out of excuses, homeslice. Seriously.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  233. Public libraries, darling!

    I couldn’t be bothered to drive ten miles to the nearest decent public library to go read that book… 🙂

    Like


  234. on December 24, 2008 at 8:22 pm American back from Latvia

    I think it is ridiculous how a conference announcement (which, if you do your research, features many people/institutions without a reglious bent) is somehow twisted into a blog post about the Catholic church and porn and beta males. Let’s be honest here, from the writing perspective there is just a tenuous link/segue you are making. You can cut out the conference part totally.

    Furthermore, who the heck cares about the Catholic church? If you really think they have a lot of power, then you are delusional. Worrying about their waning effects on beta males is just as important issue as worrying about the rise of communism in Outer Mongolia. It isn’t. This blog post is 1/10

    Like


  235. Dave,
    So OK, then you admit you lied? Is that it?

    See Dave, no one wants to hear your whining. But you. And you don’t even need Game or a book to tell you that.

    OK, what’s the next excuse…

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  236. Truth hurtsNo one is complaining about women carrying some extra weight. If they have a good figure and keep it that way, then that isn’t a deal breaker. But seriously, there are just way to many hefty women today. It is ridiculous.
    No one but Roissy. The woman you linked to, is to fat for his taste.
    I think you are making a mistake of the kind that women (sorry, in my experience) often make — using personal examples or individuals on the tail of the distribution to make a point
    Whiskey, the Anna Nicole example was for Roissy only since he has an aversion for women over a size 2. I know the rest of you would snatch Anna Nicole Smith at her peak up in a hearbeat.
    Good point about Oprah’s audiences. Thanks for pointing that out to me.
    No problem. Some of those women get themselves so worked up that Opera has to tell them to breathe otherwise they will passout. I think that some people become obssessed with a particular celebrity or a couple. It sometimes happens with a celebrity of the same gender. Agnostic thinks Angelina looks like a tranny but most people here thinks she is attractive.
    Re Christy Brinkley. She was and is a tremendous physical specimen. But she’s human and subject to aging. Even she, with her beauty, was no match in her fifties for a teen age babysitter even though she bore her husband a child IIRC. This is why it is critical for women to exercise good judgment in selecting men.
    Whiskey I agree with you here. I think Christy is the better looking of the two but at the same time, I understand why most men would be drawn to the young babysitter.
    This is why it is critical for women to exercise good judgment in selecting men We are I2I Whiskey.
    Elizabeth Hurley, another great beauty,
    Yes, Elizabeth is another good example. Physically, she has held up well and had her round of DNA drama with the billionaire Steven Bing.
    Because they trade away the opportunity for selecting a beta man on traits of lifetime devotion, and less likelihood of cheating, for excitement with Alpha males
    I agree, I really think it’s drama more than excitement but some people live for it.

    Like


  237. So OK, then you admit you lied? Is that it?

    No, I stated that I would read the book at some point. I never stated that I’d bother paying for it. 🙂

    Like


  238. Because they trade away the opportunity for selecting a beta man on traits of lifetime devotion, and less likelihood of cheating, for excitement with Alpha males

    What’s the incentive to marry (or have sex with) a loser beta male for a steady paycheck when a woman can pretty much earn middle class wages on her own and have good sex with alpha males?

    Like


  239. Dave,
    Nor did you infer that you weren’t really serious.

    OK, what’s the next excuse…

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  240. DA said:

    “What’s the incentive to marry (or have sex with) a loser beta male for a steady paycheck when a woman can pretty much earn middle class wages on her own and have good sex with alpha males?”

    Because kids and especially boys need fathers. The liberal nanny state and the whole of women’s liberation dumps the idea of fatherhood at their own peril.

    Like


  241. Dynamo KievBecause kids and especially boys need fathers
    Cosign

    Like


  242. Public libraries, darling!

    I couldn’t be bothered to drive ten miles to the nearest decent public library to go read that book

    DA, you are in NYC. You don’t have to drive to get to anywhere. Hoop you butt on a bus or train.

    Like


  243. DA, you are in NYC. You don’t have to drive to get to anywhere. Hoop you butt on a bus or train.

    Remember my dear, I live in the suburbs. It’s a 50 minute (local) train ride to Manhattan for me. The nearest decent quality library with a sizable number of books is the Queensboro Public Library’s Main Branch in Jamaica. Neighbourhood libraries, especially here in the ‘burbs, are basically geared for young kids and old people.

    Because kids and especially boys need fathers.

    Admittedly, that’s the flaw since children need fathers. I appreciate everything that my dad does for me, and I can first hand with my nephew and to a lesser extent my niece the importance of having an active father, especially if he lives with you, and no child support check can replace that.

    The downside is that the men that women want tend to be inactive fathers to the fast majority of their children. So that leaves us with the second best solution where women put up with men that they’re not attracted to in order to have successful children. I’d honestly rather see no kids born than to see men and women stuck in relationships where the woman is bitter because she isn’t attracted to the man, and the man is subsidizing the cost of living for a woman who doesn’t want him.

    OK, what’s the next excuse…

    “I make $11K per annum, so I’d rather use the $20 to save towards the shit that I like or my debt servicing costs ($1000 credit card debt from school, $20K student loans) than a book that I wasn’t keen on buying in the first place.” 😛

    Like


  244. Peter Men are getting fatter too
    What’s that got to do with the price of Brazilian wax in China
    Women like eyecandy too.
    El guapoEven the maddest alpha isn’t laying 10 women per week.
    You can’t tell that to some of the men here. As far as they are concerned they think most alphas are just swimming in it.
    WhiskeyAccording to the Durex Survey, French women have fewer sex partners than Americans, and are fairly low down on the partner list. Turkey has the most partners IIRC
    Whiskey, I look at those types of studies with a side- eye. People will sometimes lie even if it to themselves. BTW, French women are notoriously secretive. Turkish women having the highest number of partners shocks me because Turkey is a Muslim (secular) country. There are honor killing performed there as well as amongst the Turkish immigrants living in Germany.

    Like


  245. Remember my dear,
    Ooooooh DA is getting on me!

    I live in the suburbs. It’s a 50 minute (local) train ride to Manhattan for me. The nearest decent quality library with a sizable number of books is the Queensboro Public Library’s Main Branch in Jamaica. Neighbourhood libraries, especially here in the ‘burbs, are basically geared for young kids and old people

    DA, Try having the nearest library ship the book from another branch.

    Like


  246. I think DA is a supercool Asian alpha who bangs tons of white black and Latin girls and does all this to poke fun at stereotypes

    😉

    Like


  247. roissy:
    “religious institutions like the Catholic Church are failing has less to do with growing secularism than with its turn away from a patriarchal message toward a feminized one”

    “The Catholic Church, like so many other institutions of the modern West, forgot one very basic tenet along the way to post-1968 enlightenment — a woman’s sexual desire is more dangerous than a man’s”

    Wow, you REALLY don’t like women that much, do you? I’ve heard many theories about the weakening influence of Catholicism, but this is the first time I’ve heard anyone blame it on women.

    Like


  248. Anouck Lepere is another French Playboy cover model. Again not a bot.

    sara I Who looks at porn who is a healthy, loving, natural human being?
    *holds head down in shame*
    That would be me.
    gay male p08n is more appealing to some st8 women, the current stuff is just gross.

    Zarathustra
    women whereas women lose (in pre-agricultural societies) two or three years of reproductive time for each pregnancy.
    How so? So women are knocked within weeks of spiting out a child.

    Whiskey, the few issues of maxim that I’ve fliped through, the women were not bots. Some of them had some work but it wasn’t obvious.

    Like


  249. @ResidentCynic- That girl really broke his heart. Like Hello mentioned, men struggle much more so than women to recover from heartbreak. I gotta give Roosh five points for being up front about his broken heart.

    Like


  250. David Alexander:

    “What’s the incentive to marry (or have sex with) a loser beta male for a steady paycheck when a woman can pretty much earn middle class wages on her own and have good sex with alpha males?”

    (Virtually)Every girl wants to get married. So the main source of pressure is themselves. They have sex with the alpha in the hopes he’ll “see the light” and marry her and raise kids.

    Also, you undermine the “steady” paycheck part. If you’re talking about beta with a crappy job, then I’m with you. If you’re talking beta with a great job, that changes things. Money is a more than adequate substitute for many “alpha” characteristics.

    Now that doesn’t mean game won’t help a guy who also happens to earn a lot. But it does mean his game doesn’t have to be nearly as good as say, the guy working the counter at Burger King.

    You hate the game, David, because you insist it’s all about lying and tricking women. But all it really is (IMO), is self-help for guys. Dressing well, being confident in talking to attractive women, learning to deal with rejection, etc. are good things for ANY guy to know. In other words, a lot of this is stuff you should be doing anyway.

    Like


  251. “Anouck Lepere is another French Playboy cover model.”

    she’s beautiful

    “Who looks at porn who is a healthy, loving, natural human being?”

    Oh come on, Sara. Most guys look at porn at least somewhat and they aren’t all addicts. There’s never been a proven link between porn and violent behavior. Hell I look at porn every now and then and I am not unhealthy, unloving or unnatural.

    “*holds head down in shame*
    That would be me.”

    Ignore that statement

    “gay male p08n is more appealing to some st8 women, the current stuff is just gross.”

    Yes as more porn is made and men become inured to it professional producers have to push the limits more and more to generate a sexual charge. At one point to merely watch porn, especially when you had to be seen coming out of the cinema or video store, had a nasty taboo element. Now it is plentiful, cheap/free, and private and professional productions have to think of new angles to keep men interested. Playing up the hatred that many men have for women is one way. But what they do here is no match for the utter misogyny of Japanese porn.

    “women whereas women lose (in pre-agricultural societies) two or three years of reproductive time for each pregnancy.
    How so? So women are knocked within weeks of spiting out a child.”

    Nursing

    Like


  252. RC,
    No, Dave hates The Game because it proves that YOU CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR LIFE. And Dave intends to do absolutely NOTHING about his.

    Style/Strauss, shoots down Dave’s silly “fooling/tricking/manipulation” argument in The Game. He clearly says, towards the end of the book, that Lisa (the girl he falls in love with) would have NEVER been into the “real him” had he NOT undergone the changes over the previous two years wrt Game. Game was a Journey in Self Discovery for Strauss, and this is true of every PUA, regardless of their station in life.

    Listen to Dave. There is a caveat, excuse, exception, this, that, for nearly everything that requires him to get off his butt and make something happen in his life. And worse, he hangs his failings on a lack of things *outside himself*-like a degree or a high status job-thinking those things will give him something Game would not. I’d argue strongly that it is precisely the things Dave craves the most that are the most phony. How many people do all of us know who are really educated and have great jobs, and people suck up to them, if they do it at all, because they *have to*, not becaue hey want to? Hmm? To ask the question is to answer it.

    I just got, thanks to my man Zam, another shipment of books. $40 in all: The Story of O, Pimp, My Secret Life and The Art of Seduction. Putting them together with Mystery Method, The Red Queen and The Game, I’ve spent what, max, $70? Hell, I’ve blown that in five minutes. And, I’ve already seen results.

    Dave doesn’t takes chances. He avoids them. Like the plague. That’s why he won’t deal with Women in the Real. Easier to deal with virtual fantasies, ie Porn.

    In The Game, one thing I really liked about Strauss, and he says as much in the book, was that he wasn’t fixated on just one *type* of Woman. He had em all, and if one reads the book that’s saying a lot. Strauss was open to new things. Dave is not.

    I can promise you right now that I can take the very same things Dave is into, and make them Hot Items that Women would LOVE; “Hey Baby, wanna take a train ride with me?” If your Game is tight enough, a gal would be thrilled to sit with you to watch paint dry on the wall.

    The fact that Dave refuses to read ONE book on the subject, a Man who obsesses over information, and intelligence, and this and that, tells us all something, doesn’t it? I know it says something to me.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  253. “women whereas women lose (in pre-agricultural societies) two or three years of reproductive time for each pregnancy.
    How so? So women are knocked within weeks of spiting out a child.”

    Nursing

    Hello, I figured he meant that. Nursing does not work for some women thought.

    Like


  254. DA, Try having the nearest library ship the book from another branch.

    I actually tried that back in high school to get reports done for my honours and advanced placement classes. It was easier in most cases to simply go to the library where the book existed than to perpetually wait for the book to be delivered to my local branch.

    Plus, IIRC, my local library here on LI doesn’t have full borrowing privileges in the NYC districts.

    Every girl wants to get married

    Yes, but they want an expensive lavish ceremony where they’re Queens for a day. They want long-term marriages with an alpha male. No part of this dream has room for a beta male.

    If you’re talking about beta with a crappy job, then I’m with you.

    A sizable portion of the male population has a “crappy” job which may admittedly depend on one’s milleu and social class. The problem is that the money just turns you into a beta provider which is a second best, and men should stop meekly being that second best option because they’re only tolerated for their finances, and the minute an alpha comes along, the beta provider ends up being a loser beta chump who watches his wife bang Roissy.

    There is a caveat, excuse, exception, this, that, for nearly everything that requires him to get off his butt and make something happen in his life.

    Mu’Min, you’re a smart man who figured out a portion of the David Alexander puzzle. The only way I’d be happy is if I magically woke up with the girl of my dreams next to me. Otherwise, I couldn’t be bothered, and that’s essentially evidenced by the fact that I have never gone out on a date nor have asked a girl out.

    people suck up to them, if they do it at all, because they *have to*

    You’d be surprised, that’s the best reason for people to suck up to you. It’s true power at its finest.

    Like


  255. DA, when I was fifteen I used to take adventurous subway rides from the Bronx, and then out on the E train to the Queensborough Public Libary to borrow classical music scores, then walk all the way back along Queens Blvd. to my cousin’s coffee shop right across the street from the court house in Kew Gardens to freeload for a burger and a coke.

    Stop whining.

    Like


  256. Would the number of Men present signify “I” in favor of choosing a Woman who gives all the signs of NOT being Fertile?

    Don’t everyone signify at once…

    Oh, give me a break! If fertility really had the import you’re crediting it with, you’d nail any healthy-looking female under the age of 27 with the intent to impregnate. But that’s not the ultimate motivator out there in the dating world. The physical appeal ranking system is not a reliable indicator of fertility, and the last thing most of you want to do is get saddled with kids. You want the indicators of fertility, not the fertility itself.

    And the disparaging comments about not deigning to procreate with a mere 5? Made in this very comment forum.

    The fact of the matter is that the problem is on both sides: a small contingent of both genders are in demand by the rest. That’s not the sole domain of women, and betas being unrealistic about what level of partner they can reasonably expect is just as much a source of the disparity.

    You can’t lay that at the feet of the 5s who being bypassed, and who are in precisely the same position as the betas so often lamented here.

    Like


  257. David Alexander:

    “The problem is that the money just turns you into a beta provider which is a second best, and men should stop meekly being that second best option because they’re only tolerated for their finances, and the minute an alpha comes along, the beta provider ends up being a loser beta chump who watches his wife bang Roissy.”

    If that’s second best, what do you consider sitting around your house masturbating to porn all day? Is that third best? 4th?

    And how many hot women married to betas have you seen run off and get banged by “roissy”? Or is this just a fantasy you’ve made as an excuse to sit around masturbating all day. And if you really have a lot of money, you can just go get another hot chick. Also, chicks cheat on “alphas”. I’m sure roissy could tell you stories of women cheating on him.

    I do agree though that you shouldn’t be just a beta provider. Was I suggesting that? I didn’t mean to.

    BTW, merry christmas everyone! Hope you enjoy your time with your families (can’t meet up with mine until the day after Christmas unfortunately).

    Like


  258. Mu:

    I can promise you right now that I can take the very same things Dave is into, and make them Hot Items that Women would LOVE; “Hey Baby, wanna take a train ride with me?” If your Game is tight enough, a gal would be thrilled to sit with you to watch paint dry on the wall.

    bingo.

    the last 3 places i’ve gone on, uh, dates:
    1. a kids’ playground after dark
    2. the public library
    3. dressing each other up at thrift stores

    just as it doesn’t much matter what you say to a girl (within certain very broad boundaries), as long as you say it the right way, it likewise doesn’t much matter where you take her (again within certain very broad boundaries).

    the minute an alpha comes along, the beta provider ends up being a loser beta chump who watches his wife bang Roissy.

    interestingly, there are many, many formalized “cuckold/hotwife/bull(s)” relationships like this out there, in which the cuck hubby not only watches – if wifey lets him watch – but also recruits the bull(s) in the first place, and also “services” the hotwife and bull in other ways, including but not limited to “cleaning her up afterwards”, purchasing lingerie for her use exclusively with the bull(s), and even financing weekend getaways for her and the bull(s).

    bulls don’t usually look like roissy, though; they’re usually much more hypermasculine and high-T-looking. most of them are black or swarthy, and many would be described as “striking” or “smoldering”.

    Mu’Min, you’re a smart man who figured out a portion of the David Alexander puzzle. The only way I’d be happy is if I magically woke up with the girl of my dreams next to me. Otherwise, I couldn’t be bothered.

    although “david alexander” almost certainly doesn’t exist, this attitude is the exact reason why an expansive social welfare state, which provides anything over and above bare-bones sustenance, is a horrible idea.

    Like


  259. blue:

    Oh, give me a break! If fertility really had the import you’re crediting it with, you’d nail any healthy-looking female under the age of 27 with the intent to impregnate.

    two big, big problems here.

    1, ignoratio elenchi, sweetheart.
    go back and look at mu’s post – you shouldn’t have to look back too far, as you quoted it – in which he mentioned “signs of fertility”, not actual fertility.

    2, whoa there with the “intent”, turbo.
    if we were consciously aware of the genetic impulses underlying all of our actions, the world would be a very, very different place indeed.

    in case you like examples better than abstractions: i’m a boob and ass man (to the extent that Mu and i would probably fight over girls). it doesn’t follow that i’m consciously thinking about (1) fat reserves to stave off starvation or (2) healthy pregnancies while i look at well-endowed women.

    get with the program.
    kthxbai.

    You want the indicators of fertility, not the fertility itself.

    congratulations on reiterating mu’s point while attempting to debunk it.
    it’s a rare interlocutor who has the talent to establish the very points (s)he’s trying to discredit.

    The fact of the matter is that the problem is on both sides: a small contingent of both genders are in demand by the rest.

    thanks, captain obvious.
    read on.

    That’s not the sole domain of women, and betas being unrealistic about what level of partner they can reasonably expect is just as much a source of the disparity.

    this is a fine argument… if you’re autistic.

    do not forget this:
    excepting a small cadre of super-alpha men, women do the choosing.
    therefore, the reasonability of women’s expectations is all that’s really relevant.

    You can’t lay that at the feet of the 5s who being bypassed, and who are in precisely the same position as the betas so often lamented here.

    autistic again.
    have you ever set foot in the real world, rain (wo)man?

    you’re ignoring the fact that, in general, females are hypergamous, while males aren’t.

    the fives aren’t being bypassed by male fives, many of whom would be eager to take them on as ltr’s. the fives are being bypassed by the alphas** for whom they feel primitive urges, but to whom they are essentially invisible.

    ** unlike roissy, who needed a whole post to define alpha, i’ll define “alpha” in one phrase:
    alpha males = guys to whom cosmopolitan is actually referring in its articles about “guys”.
    airtight.

    Like


  260. If that’s second best, what do you consider sitting around your house masturbating to porn all day? Is that third best? 4th?

    No, masturbation to porn is simply the basic operating state until an appropriately high ranking woman is available. If one doesn’t come around, you just keep jerking off until the end. Settling is not an option.

    Or is this just a fantasy you’ve made as an excuse to sit around masturbating all day.

    Roissy has mentioned on a few occasions some of his trysts with married women, so I wouldn’t consider it to be imprudent to believe that women will cheat once they find an alpha.

    although “david alexander” almost certainly doesn’t exist

    David Alexander is just the amplified version of a real live human being.

    the fives are being bypassed by the alphas** for whom they feel primitive urges

    So why do you want these fives to go and date beta males when they should be staying single and holding out for alphas?

    Like


  261. David Alexander:

    “No, masturbation to porn is simply the basic operating state until an appropriately high ranking woman is available. If one doesn’t come around, you just keep jerking off until the end. Settling is not an option.”

    Who said anything about “settling”? I thought the scenario was you being a beta provider to hot woman (who you think would run off to be with an alpha eventually). And then said, you would just replace her with another hot chick (and so on and so forth as necessary).

    Roissy has mentioned on a few occasions some of his trysts with married women, so I wouldn’t consider it to be imprudent to believe that women will cheat once they find an alpha.

    What I said was that people cheat all the time. Even with alphas like roissy allegedly is. There is no insurance against some chick cheating on you, no matter how alpha you think you are.

    Like


  262. Dave Alex,
    Yes, that’s true; “true power at its finest”. But that’s not what you want in Love, or just Sex, Dave. Strauss, in The Game, mentions a night he was in a niteclub, and was being mistaken for Moby; he thought his Game was mad-hot, when in fact he was getting dap for being mistaken for a celeb. He goes on to write that a lot of guys in his position would have been happy for the mixup. But he said that he got into the game to have Women for for HIM, not because he might have looked like somebody famous.

    Seriously Dave, why should *anyone* be into you, when you don’t have any get up and go to live?

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  263. RC, J5,
    See, this whole line of (un)reasoning that Dave Alex has, about Women who are only using the Beta chump while secretly pining away for the Alpha guy, is his excuse again, TO DO NOTHING. How many times has it been said in this very forum, that if you’re Married and you’re a guy, YOU NEED GAME MORE THAN A SINGLE GUY DOES. Why? Because you have more at stake. Not only do you have the concerns Dave cries crocodile tears about, but you also have the very real concern of Divorce theft, etc, et al. So, until a major overhaul of the system happens, which ain’t likely, a Hubbie w/mad Game is about the only real option a Man has if he’s going the Nuptial Route.

    But see, here again we gotta shootdown Dave’s fallacious argument. Sure, there’s always a bigger fish. But then, so what? My thing has always been, what is it about Mu’Min that makes a Woman want to stick around in the first place? In more recent times, as I’ve studied these materials, that question has come from the fuzzier backdrop into a much sharper focus. Guys into Game, I think, *have to* think things like this through moreso than others, if they plan to be successful out on the dating market/scene.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  264. I see the Catholic church’s opposition to the death penalty as a slap in the face to beata males. I have noticed how soft on crime our nation has become with all the light sentences, paole/probation, and very limited use of the death penalty (2008 set a record low for executions since the DP was reinstituted in 1976). I wouldn’t be surprised if the DP is outlawed in the next four years.

    I believe the root cause of our soft on crime trend is that the ladies love crimimals. Yes they do! Women think criminals are hot because they are dominant and masculine, the ultimate bad boys. I sometimes watch the prison shows on MSNBC. I can’t help but notice the prisoners are the extreme opposite of my nice guy beta and omega friends who never date. If these death row inmates were set loose on the street they would have no problem at all metting women. Look at Scott Peterson, he received truckloads of love letters and marriage proposals after killing pregnant wife Lacey.

    Because women like criminal males I wouldn’t be surprised if the day comes when long prison sentences are considered cruel and unusual punishment. Women want these bad boys in circulation even if it comes at the expense of everyones saftey and well being.

    Like


  265. What’s the incentive to marry (or have sex with) a loser beta male for a steady paycheck when a woman can pretty much earn middle class wages on her own and have good sex with alpha males?

    Because the average woman cannot get to experience pair-bonding with the alpha male.

    Like


  266. Good point, Markku.

    But I’d just like to return to yet another of Dave Alex’s fallacies, the whole “Beta Provider” thing.

    What Dave has yet to understand-we Males are a bit slower about these things than our sisters-is that Women in our time have little if any need for a “provider”. At this stage in the game, Women provide for themselves. This is even true in Marriages, most of them anyway.

    So what we’re dealing with is something *beyond money*, or maybe its better to say, apart from it. I’ve said many times before, Wallet Game is the weakest of them all; if you want to have the kinds of experience Dave Alex speaks about incessantly, be the kind of guy who relies on Wallat Game.

    Those who apply themselves to learning Game are in essence, learning about Seduction. And this is something I’ve found, and am learning more and more all the time, Women yearn for like I don’t know what. The evidence around us abounds, in soap operas, in romance novels, major motion pictures, you name it.

    And here is where the average guy, like Dave, or even me, has a serious edge over the Bill Clintons of the world-because we can learn the ins and outs of Seduction in ways naturals like Clinton don’t even think about. I know it. I have several close friends who rival Clinton’s natural ability with Women.

    I’ve spoken here in this forum about one of my best friends, Zam. He is a Natural’s Natural, I BS you not.

    Yet he cannot tell me or anyone else, what Seduction really is all about; he can “do” it; he can’t teach it. And that’s what makes the difference between him and me. He knows *how* to do something; I’m learning more and more, *why*.

    Dave, all Women want the same things-to be beautiful, to be sexually desired as such, to give themselves over to a Worthy Man. The more I study Game, the more I study works of Erotica, Romance, Seduction the world over, the more I observe others, and reflect back on my own life, the more I am convinced of these words as I type. I got into “the game” to see if a particular system was something that applied to a certain segment of the population. Just based on the little bit I’ve seen thus far, the answer to that question seems to be “Yes”.

    Money, alone, plays little role in the selection criteria Women have for mates in our time, Dave. And while you don’t have any great desire to mate w/Black Women, it doesn’t take a NASA specialist to know that Marriage is a rarity in Black America in our time, and fast becoming one in White America, too. And it makes sense, if one agrees with the idea that Women needed Marriage in times gone by for survival. They don’t anymore. So other considerations have to be brought to the table.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  267. Mu:

    He is a Natural’s Natural, I BS you not. Yet he cannot tell me or anyone else, what Seduction really is all about; he can “do” it; he can’t teach it.

    You reminded me of a conversation I recently had with my o m e g a male friend. He’s friends with a natural’s-natural Alpha friend of his, a guy who shares his gamer intrests.

    (incidentally, gaming is not just a nerd thing today, as the cliche would have it; I’m seeing that fighting games or music games like Rock Band are also popular among guys who do get laid.)

    Anyway, this Alpha guy tries in earnest to teach my less-fortunate friend some tricks of the trade. As a natural, he’s having difficulty explaining the specifics but he did once give him this gem:

    “Never talk to a woman like she’s one of the guys. It doesn’t matter if she’s a girl you’re trying to get, or a cashier at the supermarket, or a girl at work. Always keep it at a flirty level. Never talk to her brain. Always talk to her pussy.”

    Like


  268. Merry Christmas, PA! And thanks for the input.

    You know, this notion that only those who don’t get laid or can’t get laid are the ones who study Game is absolute, 100% RUBBISH. Sure, those guys are out there, and good on them for seeing that they need to make a change for the better!

    But Game is all about becoming a better person so you can get her to say that mystical, magical word: “Yes!”. That’s. It.
    And like most of my Brethren in the Hood & DNA, I could just rest on my laurels, ie past adventures, and say to myself, I don’t need Game. And like I tell my Brothas, they’d be making a HUGE mistake. Why?

    Because we are living at a time when Information is King. And it is downright foolish for real to think that you can continue to get over by luck and “good looks” in the Information Age.

    Far too many Brothas-Dave Alex-are far too apathetic to do what is necessary to hone their God given talents. Why NOT be better at what you do? Especially if all the really heavy lifting has already been done for you? All you have to do is take your lazy ass to the store or internet, grab up the books, and read em. That’s it.

    I tell my Brothas that they stand on the precipice of Advancement or Extinction, no Bullsh*t. Other groups ain’t tryin’ to hear nothing about Racism or anything else, especially now that Obama done got elected POTUS. And it just ain’t White Guys. Its other groups too, quiet as its kept.

    So Brothas have got to step up their, ahem, Game. In ALL ways.

    Or, like Dave Alex himself, in about a century from now, we’ll BE the next exhibit in the Natural History section at the Smithsonian…

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  269. You know, this notion that only those who don’t get laid or can’t get laid are the ones who study Game is absolute, 100% RUBBISH.

    Sorry for the confusion, by “gaming is not just a nerd thing today” I meant video games, not Game.

    Like


  270. Seriously Dave, why should *anyone* be into you, when you don’t have any get up and go to live?

    You’re right, and I agree that no woman should be bothered with me. I’ve personally noted that for years.

    that if you’re Married and you’re a guy, YOU NEED GAME MORE THAN A SINGLE GUY DOES

    That fact that a man needs game while married seems to reiterate my point. Game is essentially man using quasi-alpha techniques to ape alpha behaviour and trick a woman into believing that you’re an alpha. If you need game to keep your marriage working, then she really doesn’t love you, and she’s was never truly attracted to you. It simply reinforces the idea that women are only attracted to alphas.

    Like


  271. Game is essentially man using quasi-alpha techniques to ape alpha behaviour and trick a woman into believing that you’re an alpha.

    Many men don’t perform to potential. So Game is a way for them to simply become better versions of themselves. In other words, they are not apeing the real thing, they are improving themselves within the limits of their own potential.

    Game is the equivalent of standing up straight and chewing food with your mouth closed.

    If you need game to keep your marriage working, then she really doesn’t love you, and she’s was never truly attracted to you.

    It’s very important to mary a woman who loves you to begin with. And that can only happen when you practice some form of Game when you meet her.

    Like


  272. I find DA somewhat irritating, because he’s healthy and whole and apparently a porn addict, and making excuses for do-nothingness (or do-nobody-ness, while his NDGF is apparently a totally normal, somewhat deranged Greek-American) while I’m doing the rudiments of game while somewhat handicapped, and I STILL manage to have relationships with real, live women. Of course, part of the Republic is allowing people to pursue their vision of the good life as long as it doesn’t harm others, but DA seems to be a bearer of a radical sexuality, being “Porn” the way others are asexual, gay, or trans. And I say that as a formerly porn-addicted railfan myself.

    But it’s true, in a larger sense, that sex is trivial. Work is hard, paying your bills is hard, getting or keeping a good job in this economy is hard. Paying a little attention to human physiology and your partner’s personality and preferences in order to get him/her off is easy.

    Temporarily trapped a little further down on Maslow’s Pyramid.

    Like


  273. Dave Alex,
    First off, with all due respect, you are in NO position whatsoever to attempt to tell me or anyone else in this forum, what is or is not, Game; not when you don’t have even the wherewithall to get off your ass and go read a damned book on the topic.

    Second, Euro stole my thunder, as I was gonna bring this up later: there are guys out there learning and using Game in their own way, who aren’t able bodied Men like you, Dave. Euro is an excellent case in point: HE’S HANDICAPPED & STILL GETTING LAID. You, on the other hand, are NOT.

    There are PUAs who have to walk with canes, others who are DEAF (WFT?!), and I’m pretty sure there’s a blind one out there, too. But they are, doing the darned thing, and there you are, giving the same old tired, lame, excuses as to why you can’t, er, won’t, do anything.

    And that’s no one’s fault BUT yours, Dave. Period.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  274. “Game is essentially man using quasi-alpha techniques to ape alpha behaviour and trick a woman into believing that you’re an alpha.”

    It is interesting when people differentiate between being and alpha and acting like an alpha. Nature doesn’t appear to differentiate between real/fake if you can even call it that. (Unless your talking about excess ornamentation bogging down your ability to hunt for food or what not). If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.. for all practical purposes it is a duck… Is it a bunch of genes controlling a duck flesh meat robot? It doesn’t really matter. If you can’t tell the difference from the outside, then the internal mechanisms are just unnecessary information. If it passes the “Game Turing Test” then its as good as real… Natural selection is pragmatic in it’s use of Occam’s Razor…
    Humans are amazingly flexible in our behavior, thus someone who naturally has alpha/game behavior (read social skills) just came pre-loaded with those instincts or was imprinted early in life by someone. The rest of us figured out these social dynamics at different stages in life through observation and learning.. some of people never figure them out… I just don’t see a problem with people learning and changing… I don’t see a practical reason to try not to improve your situation. I tend to think that you fake it till you make it… this applies to most things in life I think.

    Like


  275. Also if the 50% divorce rate and cuckoldry rate are accurate statistics…. I think there is probably a problem with no-game marriage… considering there is about zero external social/group pressure to stay married anymore….

    Like


  276. I am thoroughly amused by a supposed railfan making a 50-minute TRAIN RIDE his excuse for why he can’t go to the public library to check out a book!

    Like


  277. “a formerly porn-addicted railfan”

    Cool. I now have the “Other Interests” section of my resume covered. Anyone know Rahm Emmanuel’s fax # ?

    Like


  278. on December 26, 2008 at 1:33 am Lawful Neutral

    David Alexander, I understand you, because I am you (though thankfully not to such a cartoonishly exaggerated degree).

    If you truly believed everything you write, you wouldn’t be posting here, begging for someone to convince you otherwise. Nobody is going to do this: your state of mind and your beliefs are your own responsibility, but at least you can have the consolation prize of seeing others confirm your low opinion of yourself.

    Like


  279. “That fact that a man needs game while married seems to reiterate my point. Game is essentially man using quasi-alpha techniques to ape alpha behaviour”

    Since the post is about the Catholic Church, I remembered some words by Saint Jerome himself about “faith”: “act as if you had faith and faith you shall be given”

    Like


  280. Islam in the West. Islam in the West. Islam in the West. Islam in the West. Islam in the West. Islam in the West. Islam in the West. Islam in the West. Islam in the West. Islam in the West. Islam in the West. Islam in the West. Islam in the West. Islam in the West. Islam in the West. Islam in the West. Islam in the West. Islam in the West.

    Like


  281. […] Don’t get married. […]

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  282. Check out the site http://www.nomarriage.com. Enuff said.

    Like


  283. […] to change their minds on a whim when it suits them. A woman’s slapdash principles and the vast anti-male legal industrial complex are cold comfort for the modern playboy. You must look out for […]

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  284. […] attractive immigrant girl will find herself besieged with assistance from American men and from our institutions, and her route to employment, friendship, love, and citizenship much smoother than yours. It is […]

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  285. […] Rod, who do you think is assaulting the integrity of the family? I want my sons to grow up knowing that it is both good […]

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  286. Приветствую Вас. Вот меня, как консультанта из Белорусии, волнует вопрос о отношении к нам, так сказать к тем, кто только начинает свою карьеру… Ходят слухи, что в других странах накануне праздников, консультантов поздравляют, дарят что-то ценное, а не обходятся банальной открыткой, как это делается у нас… Ведь это же действительно и приятно и понимаешь, что тебя хотя бы малость, но уважают. Расскажите, как у Вас с этим?

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  287. C наступающим Вас! Пусть Ваши мечты сбудутся!

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