Cuckoldry Vs. Butt Rape

It seems that my spirited discussion of resolving the ultimate betrayal through mandatory paternity testing made the rounds on the internet. A male commenter at Overcoming Bias had this to say about the CHian contention that cuckoldry is on a par with rape, if not even more psychologically traumatic:

And as to whether it’s worse [for a woman] to be raped or [a man to be] cuckolded – I cannot even begin to understand the trauma or ostracization of the first (which by the way happens to A LOT more than two percent the population) while the second would only hurt because of the dishonesty. It’s a difference of several orders of magnitude!

Oh rilly? I think it’s time to put this assertion to the test with a leetle thought experiment. Imagine two highly unpleasant scenarios.

Scenario 1

You are walking past an alleyway when Big Bad Bubba comes up behind you and drags you into the dark alley, muttering “you look real purty for a grown boy” as he uses his bulk to press you into the damp brick wall, his beefy bear paws yanking your jeans and boxers down to your ankles. You try to resist but his strength is overwhelming. He smashes your face into the wall and sticks a knife to your throat, saying he’ll cut you if you scream. Suddenly, a seering pain shoots up your rectum. You struggle to get away but you are immobilized. The pain continues for what seems an eternity but is in actuality only one minute and 22 seconds. Punctuating his release with a great heaving grunt, Bubba withdraws, spent, and cackles as he walks off, the lingering musky stench of his sweat offending your nostrils. Vomit rises up your throat and you stumble to your knees, your hands grasping at pebbles on the ground. You are sure your innards are spilling out on a torrent of blood from your asshole, but luckily when you arrive at the hospital an hour later the doctors tell you there was no permanent damage to your poopenshaften and you are AIDS free. You go home, go to sleep, and call in sick the following two days. Over the following months you go to the gym more frequently than you used to, working out your shame and anger in the weight room. People compliment your improved physique. You tell no one of your ordeal.

Scenario 2

You are married to the love of your life. In the first year of wedded bliss, your wife gets pregnant. Nine months later an infant pops out. You are filled with so much joy you hardly notice the brief flicker of discomfort you feel when you ponder that the child looks nothing like you, nor do you pay much attention to all your relatives telling you how much the child looks like you. Time passes. You spend countless hours, days, weeks, months, years loving your child, wiping his ass, taking him to the park, strapping him in the car seat and struggling with the belts and clips, working extra long hours to afford a move to a better neighborhood so your child can go to a good school, sacrificing your beloved guitar gig with a local band to spend that newly freed up personal time helping your child with his homework, attending his soccer games, cheering for him when he scores a goal, instructing him how to swing a bat and build a model airplane, teaching him how to defend himself in a fight, disciplining him for a bad grade in english, setting aside a chunk of your income for his college fund, and generally reorganizing your life in almost every conceivable way for your child’s benefit. Then, when your child is age 10, through a series of fateful circumstances you discover he is another man’s biological son. Your gut implodes and your heart crashes. Your mouth has dried into a sticky velcro. You feel as if you have just seen everyone you love die horrible deaths in front of you. Your brain is scorched and the room spins for what seems like an eternity but is in actuality only two hours and 43 minutes. Over the next year you learn that, despite your best efforts at some kind of recompense or at minimum freedom from pain, the law has decided in its infinite wisdom to require you to pay child support for another eight years to the wife you divorced, in the interests of the child. Betrayal eviscerates your sense of self. Besides the obvious lie, you wonder at the cascade of lies in tow. Did your wife whom you loved so much ever really love you? Did anyone else know? Did they think you a fool? Was your dignity worth so little to the people who mattered to you most? You ask these questions already knowing the answers.

Now that you have considered these two vile scenarios I want you to vote which of the two, should you be forced to endure one of them, you would rather have happen to you. This voting is for my male readers only. Ladies, you can take a time out with your purple saguaros.

If forced to choose from the above scenarios, would you rather be...






Comments


  1. Shouldn’t the voting be for heterosexual male readers only? I suppose it goes without saying, though.

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  2. check out this white knighting by the golfer Jesper Parnevik. elin worked for him and his family as an au pair.

    Jesper Parnevik: Tiger Woods’ wife should use a driver next time

    “We probably thought he was a better guy than he is,” Parnevik told the Golf Channel from West Palm Beach, Fla., where he is in the final stage of PGA Tour qualifying.

    “I would probably need to apologize to her and hope she uses a driver next time instead of a 3-iron,” Parnevik said, adding that he has not spoken to Woods since the accident.

    “It’s a private thing, of course,” the Swede said. “But when you are the guy he is — the world’s best athlete — you should think more before you do stuff … and maybe not ’just do it,’ like Nike says.”

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  3. “Would You Rather” is a fantastic game, and a great pattern to work on girls. Not this one in particular, of course.

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  4. “while the second would only hurt because of the dishonesty.”

    um, yeah…. just the dishonesty.

    Sweetiepie, if only you’d told me you intended to have me nurture, raise, sacrifice and provide for the lovespawn of your whoring around with men outside of our marriage, I would’ve supported you and appreciated your profound honesty. Next time, just tell me how you feel!

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  5. Both situations just plain suck, but butt-rape is preferable, we can get over it. We don’t get pregnant.

    Cuckholding is having to support a slut AND knowing that everybody around you knew (your family and “friends”) and nobody had the decency to tell you. It’s a betrayal on the deepest level discovering that you are just a mockery object, that everybody laughed at your back.

    I would expect that cuckholded men murdered the cheating cunt. I would.

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  6. I voted for butt rape. At least there is the possibility of justice through the law if the guy is caught. In cuckoldry, when her whoring is caught, you are screwed.

    Why would the state require you to pay for someone else’s kid some of you may ask? Because the state has a vested interest in using you as an extension of the welfare system.

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  7. Extremes again here…90 seconds of RAEP vs. ten years of emotional and financial investment and a re-wiring of your life. In that case, obviously cuckoldry is worse.

    However, assuming you got a paternity test at birth, and discovered the kid was his whoring mother’s bastard, you could then get divorced and extricate yourself with considerably less pain. Were that the case, I’d say the rape is worse, though still only by a hair…

    inb4 “BOTH SCENARIOS ARE RAPE!”

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  8. I accidentally clicked on the wrong one. Cuckolding is much, much worse.

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  9. Kane – Just because a man is gay doesn’t mean he would enjoy being attacked and ass-raped in an alleyway

    Both situations suck… hard

    The choice is pretty difficult – You almost HAVE to go with the choice that has lasting implications

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  10. it’s a bit of an apples to oranges comparison, but i think it does say something about both the person making the choice and our society as a whole.

    rape is an incredibly traumatizing incident that can have enormous psychological reprucussions, but it’s usually a one-time event. being cuckolded is much less traumatic, but it results in a child, a walking, breathing reminder of the betrayal. if you’re the type of person who does not like to dwell on this sort of thing, then getting over a rape might be a matter of getting all your feelings out in the open, dealing with them, figuring out how you can avoid any future occurance, and finding bubba so you can “call up couple of hard pipe-hittin’ niggas.. to get medieval on yo’ ass”. conversely, if you’re a highly emotional, continually introspective, and have difficulty clearly deliniating time horizons then i imagine that getting over a rape would be much more difficult.

    in the dominant mode of our culture it makes perfect sense that rape is thought of as worse. t aka ricky raw has three great posts on our current victim culture. read it: http://therawness.com/. it’s good stuff. victims are expected to not so much overcome their bad experiences, but rather ‘take ownership’, wallow in it, and glean positive vibes from all the attention they get. in my opintion, that’s the worst possible thing you can do when it comes to getting past these things.

    also, from the radical feminist perspective rape is not just an isolated crime. it is just an expression of a larger patriarchy that continually oppresses women. from the roissy perspective, cuckoldry is an expression of a larger female genetic imperative to get alpha genes and beta support. so again, whichever you think of as worse might depend on which perspective you most identify with. personally, i don’t see the point in comparing. it’s like asking me if i’d rather get kicked in the left nut or the right one.

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  11. Roissy, rape isn’t that easy. It’s something that stays with someone for the rest of their lives, and saying that someone’s going to work out their anger and shame through the gym is the biggest load of bs I’ve ever heard in my life.

    A victim, or survivor, whatever term you prefer, is lucky if they can even get out of bed on some days.

    Maybe it’s a little different for men, but such an attack on ANYONE is going to have lasting implications. There’s a little thing called RTS- Rape Trauma Syndrome, which is essentially Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. With it come night terrors, phobias, appetite changes, etc.

    I can’t believe you downplayed it that much. It’s ridiculous. “Two sick days off” and that’s it? And the fact that all of you believe that it’s something that simple and easy to get over shows what the lot of idiots you are.

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  12. In a more perfect world, here’s what Tiger Woods would say:

    I love my wife, and I owe her truth and honesty regarding my actions, no matter how painful it is.

    I should never have been wed to her. Despite my sincere and abiding love for her, I had no real intention of being sexually exclusive with her. I, like most every man of means, have a compelling biological impulse to be with more than one woman, and quite often as many as possible.

    My family, handlers, fans, and the media all want me to profusely apologize for doing what every fiber of my masculine being has compelled me to do, as if to acknowledge that some evil, immoral force within me was sabotaging our beautiful, desirable domestic bliss and my finely-polished public image. But I cannot supplicate myself like this to those that would seek to self-righteously shame me because that’s simply not the truth.

    I greatly enjoyed sleeping with those women, and did so repeatedly without regret because it made me very happy to express my sexuality this way with the attractive women whom I often encounter. I do not have a “sex addiction” or some other contrived psychopathy which should be “fixed” with therapy or “spiritual guidance.”

    Many women will express stunned incredulity and visceral disgust at this hard truth, and find it utterly impossible to reconcile my genuine love for my wife with my desire to sleep with women who are not my wife. This inability to logically reconcile these non-opposing truths plagues many marriages and pairings where infidelity exists. They’ll point to my wife’s obvious beauty and suggest that I must be out of my mind to want to sleep with any one else, especially a somewhat less-beautiful woman. This illustrates a profound misunderstanding of the male condition, a projection of the misguided feminine construct, and ultimately, a fear of human sexuality.

    Also, I’m a 33 year old billionaire, what the fuck do you expect?

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  13. ps – i am glad that mandy appears right underneath me. her comment is exactly what i’m speaking of when i mention our current victim culture

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  14. Good post. As usual, framing the issue in gruesome personal detail brings out the stark realities much better than vague statistical generalisations that allow the misandrists and manginas to wax lyrically.

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  15. on December 3, 2009 at 9:59 am Velvetgunther

    tough choice. Maybe I’d go for butt rape but with a condom. having said that, although rape, for a woman, is understandably traumatic, to be butt raped, as a heterosexual male, by somebody who’s much bigger and stronger than you, would be infinitely more traumatic. to the extent that you would start questioning your own masculinity.

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  16. Kane – Just because a man is gay doesn’t mean he would enjoy being attacked and ass-raped in an alleyway

    Yeah, but it’s different for a straight guy.

    Naturally, faggots wouldn’t understand. Being faggots, and all.

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  17. Roissy,

    Based on your writings and views as a PUA, scenario 2 can only happen to betas and not alphas.

    Any guy who feels crushed because the love of his life betrayed him is by definition a beta. No alpha would ever have a “life of his life” nor would he care if his wife/girlfriend betrayed him.

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  18. A butt rape only happens once, whereas a cuckolding is for life. There can be no comparison between a one-time traumatic event, on the one hand, and a lifetime of lies, genetic, financial and emotional fraud.

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  19. @J R:
    From the website you posted.
    “Dwelling on problems that have passed, reinforcing the feeling in victims that they will forever be emotionally crippled by whatever trauma was done to them and that such emotional and psychic scars will not only continue to haunt the victims throughout their lives but actually serve to define them…these are examples of therapy culture taken to its worst extreme: scar worship.”
    This is bad therapy, and should not be identified with therapy at all.

    “Scar worship is where a victim’s goal is no longer to heal their scars but to celebrate them and keep them forever fresh by constantly picking at them.”

    This is someone who’s flawed. Every goal should be to heal your scars and move on.

    “They get so used to their nonstop pity party that they end up defining themselves by their trauma.”

    This makes me wonder if those people who crave nonstop pity parties have legitimately been through the trauma. Someone who’s been shamed so much and weakened so much shouldn’t want pity; pity usually implies that you’re in a weakened state or worse state than the other person. It’s pretty negative. I would think.

    “It becomes their identity, and they begin to cling on to it for dear life because even a fucked up identity in the mind of most is better than no identity, and these people have reached a point where they have no idea who they are without their trauma.”

    This is someone who hasn’t finished healing, and that therapy hasn’t worked. Someone who defines themselves by a trauma, who treats it like the end all and be all of their lives is sad. We are defined by what we do now, not what happened to us then. When someone realizes that it no longer defines who they are, that it’s just something bad that’s happened to them, they’ve healed. Therapy could help them go through that. If a therapist is encouraging them to relish the trauma, then he should have his license revoked.

    And that’s all I’m saying on this piece.

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  20. Cuckoldry for me. Though I probably shouldn’t even have voted since I’m constitutionally incapable of empathizing with the guy in the second scenario. I realize it’s eccentric, but the thought of having a child horrifies me to the quick. If the kid turned out not to be my bio-broodling after all, I can only imagine that this would come as relief, financial and marital consequences notwithstanding.

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  21. Any guy who feels crushed because the love of his life betrayed him is by definition a beta.

    The emotional impact of cuckoldry is not so much that a woman’s love turned out to be false. One gets over one’s girlfriends. Wives too.

    It’s more the fact that a kid you assume is yours and you bonded with like with no another human being, is a walking and breathing testament to your being another man’s pissing bowl for the past x years. It’s the worst betrayal possible.

    Cuckoldry should be treated by criminal courts as a capital offense, just like rape.

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  22. @JR:

    “i am glad that mandy appears right underneath me. her comment is exactly what i’m speaking of when i mention our current victim culture.”

    Read my post in respond to the article you posted.

    Roissy’s piece on cuckolding is like it’s own male victim culture (which I’m sure you’ve stated).

    I’m not saying that it’s not something people can heal from, but comparing it to the common cold is the most fucking ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard in my life.

    And never did I say that it would become someone’s identity, or dominate who they were as an individual. It may seem like that afterwards. Just like cuckolding may be terrible to a man, but after time, he will recover from it. That’s what strong people do. They recover. They move on. They define themselves by what they DO, not what happened to them.

    If a man’s going to let the world spin around him for the rest of his life because he was cuckolded, he’s as bad as the rape victim who lets the world fall around her/him and begs for sympathy the rest of her life.

    Those aren’t HEALTHY people.

    But like I said, ANY trauma takes time. “Two sick days” won’t cut it.

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  23. @JR:

    Novaseeker said:

    “A butt rape only happens once, whereas a cuckolding is for life. There can be no comparison between a one-time traumatic event, on the one hand, and a lifetime of lies, genetic, financial and emotional fraud.”

    Look, more victim culture for you to revel in!!

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  24. Another angle: once people hear of your bout with cuckoldry, people will laugh at you and mock you.

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  25. @Basil Ransom:

    So many people make hetero male butt rape jokes, I’m not surprised they would laugh at a man for that too. :/

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  26. Apropos of Basil Ransom’s comment, I wonder if the results might skew differently if public humiliation were written into the buttrape scenario. A closeted male rape victim is one thing; a stigmatized male rape victim is another. Taking the heavier burden of public knowledge into account might up the stakes.

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  27. Okay, for everyone who says Roissy underplays the trauma of rape, just answer the question directly. Would you rather be cuckolded? If no, then at some point you are obligated to admit there’s something in what’s being said here and shut up.

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  28. IF the kid comes out and his lips aren’t at least 1/3 of his face… then it’s obviously not mine… duh

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  29. Yeah, the girl is a total bitch, no worries about that, but come on, once you loved that little guy as your own for 10 years would it really have a deep impact in your relationship with him?
    If so, that’s no good.

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  30. Yeah, the girl is a total bitch, no worries about that, but come on, once you loved that little guy as your own for 10 years would it really have a deep impact in your relationship with him?
    If so, that’s no good.

    That’s not the point. The point is that it is a fraud of the highest order. I also think that if you have a ten year relationship de facto, the relationship should be preserved BUT the fraudster should be punished either with criminal time or with financial reparations or both. It is, outside of murder, the most serious crime a woman can commit against a man — and right now it is a crime without penalty. It’s a legal obscenity, currently.

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  31. Let’s try this slowly:

    Rape is traumatic for women becuase a)They can get pregnant and, most importantly b)They lose sexual status, they are less desired, their market value damages terribly.

    Since men don’t worry about a and b isn’t that big for us, getting buttraped, although bad, we can get over it more easily.

    Cuckholding is the inverse, we as males lose our main resource to the relationship, namely our hard work and our money that was expended in a little bastard instead on our own seed and we lose a lot of our sexual status and market value because we become the ultimate, pathetic, object of mockery beta males.

    So, for every straight male, and also for any gay that wanted a child of his seed (as weird as it sounds), cuckholding is worse.

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  32. I think you described that rape scene with a bit too much verve.

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  33. I think a more interesting question is, wife cheating on you versus butt rape, one incident each.

    Or, getting repeatedly prison raped for 3 years vs cuckolded for 18. Something like that.

    Pound for metaphorical pound, is butt rape worse than cuckoldry? Would you do hard time getting raped by black bulls and contracting STDs for the privilege of raising your biological offspring, or take the pass on prison and raise the cuckoo’s egg?

    At the end of the day, I’d say a man’s honor is more defined by what happens to his woman’s body than what happens to his own.

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  34. “but come on, once you loved that little guy as your own for 10 years would it really have a deep impact in your relationship with him?
    If so, that’s no good.”

    I’m pretty sure I disagree. Genetics matters. Biology matters. If it didn’t, then why do hospitals spend so much time and money implementing checks and controls to ensure each mother goes home with the right baby? Why is biology only of diminshed importance when it comes to men?

    I’m not saying I would blame the kid or hate the kid—far from it. But I would absolutely look at my obligations to the child completely differently—namely, that I have none. And that’s exactly the way it should be.

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  35. would it really have a deep impact in your relationship with him?

    That’s the whole insult of cuckoldry: your relationship with the kid would be poisoned by an endless reminder that you had been debased and humiliated in the worst way possible. Every time you see the child’s face.

    The only way this relationship could continue free of the poison, in my speculative hypothetical musing on the topic, is if the biological father were dead.

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  36. on December 3, 2009 at 11:01 am Hangin Sack von Nuts

    you left out the worst part of being cuckolded: you should have included something about the alpha she banged… perhaps you have seen him now and then, and in hindsight the subtly discernible condescension he’s directed at you now makes sense… or, you know that the guy gets around a lot, has a ton of money, etc., and, true to his alpha cad nature, still is fucking much hotter women than your slut wife, such that he obviously pumped and dumped her, and probably pissed on her too… also the kid can have a giant penis, which clues you into the size of the member of the man who impregnated the slut. etc.

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  37. Oh for the love of all that is pure and good, and not you people: There are plenty of absolutely awful things a woman can do to a man that are both A) Illegal and B) worse than passing off another man’s child as his own.

    She could cut your balls off, for starters.

    She could kill your mistress.

    She could key your car, slash your tires, then plant the bloody murder weapon in your dashboard and tip off the cops.

    It is only illegal to fuck someone if they don’t consent, or can’t consent. (Hint: that’s what us feminists like to call rape.) Cheating, for either gender, is not a crime. There’s gender equality for all you whining children.

    Finally, pick up a dictionary: the act of cuckolding need not include conceiving a child with the man who is not your husband. It means cheating, nothing more and nothing less.

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  38. it’s weighing the forceful one time event of force over your body versus the 10 years of deception by one you entered into a lawful contract with forsaking all others and who should have been above all others trusted and relied upon.

    in those terms….the voting speaks for itself.

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  39. @Mandy

    TITS OR GTFO

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  40. @ PA

    The only way this relationship could continue free of the poison, in my speculative hypothetical musing on the topic, is if the biological father were dead.

    I can think of one other way: if the cuckolded man chose to continue the relationship with the child. It should be the man’s choice, that’s what important here. He should be able to choose exactly what his obligations are to the child, and should not be forced into anything by court order.

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  41. Cuckolding is the rape that lasts a lifetime!

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  42. @Jason:

    You first.

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  43. Raping a male != raping a female.

    Raping a female means vandalizing her sexual market value; a male has none to vandalize.

    Have you ever seen a child cry because a friend took his toy – even though he wasn’t playing with it in the first place? If so, you understand what raping a female is. People understand instinctively when their resources are used without compensation.

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  44. The only way this relationship could continue free of the poison, in my speculative hypothetical musing on the topic, is if the biological father were dead.

    No. Even if the guy is dead, the kid is still a living, breathing testimony that your wife betrayed you in the most fundamental possible way.

    The poison would not “go away” if the man got to “choose” whether or not he had any personal or financial obligation to the child. The mere fact of this child’s existence is psychological poison to the cuckold.

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  45. @Patrick at 9:55,

    and what message will Tiger give to his two small children?

    Kids, I do love you, but not enough to respect your security and stability. I risked busting up our family because I value my hedonistic pleasure above your needs. The tension, volatility, violence, and screaming in our family are small prices to pay for my pleasure.

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  46. on December 3, 2009 at 11:25 am Harmonious Jim

    “all your relatives telling you how much the child looks like you”

    In reality: all *her* relatives telling you how much the child looks like you

    Or even: all *her female* relatives telling you how much the child looks like you

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  47. both of these acts fall prey to the same sort of infinite feedback loop of victimization: being cucked sucks because of the betrayal, the betrayal hurts because of the kid, seeing the kid hurts because it reminds you of being being cucked, rinse and repeat…

    there’s no reason to let either of these things become more than what they are. there are obvious legal issues when it comes to child support, but the degree to which you focus on the betrayal aspect of being cucked is entirely up to you. decide whether you want to stay with your wife; decide whether you want to maintain a relationship with the kid; and then get over it.

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  48. Family law is state law. I think most state legislatures are predominantly male. One would think that changing the law would be easier under these circumstances, but the law remains biased.

    Sure cuckolding is terrible, but what are you (or anyone) going to actually do about it? Whining and moaning isn’t going to help. What you really want is a bright line rule that says that if it is determined that the presumed father is not the biological father then the mother should be complete barred from any legal remedy against the non-father. She should seek it instead from the biological father.

    I don’t think there is any electoral benefit in supporting such a policy. It is too easily characterized as anti-child, anti-woman, and anti-family. It will piss off women, who are a valuable voting block.

    If you wanted to implement something like this, it would have to be hidden in some other change in law. It can’t be overt.

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  49. In New York State at least, child support is mandatory until the age of 21. Bizarrely. (Why not 25? Or 50?)

    Also, I’m pretty sure you left out the “c” in “poopenschaften.” Or is that Dutch?

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  50. Raping a male != raping a female.

    Raping a female means vandalizing her sexual market value; a male has none to vandalize.

    Of course a man has SMV. It is largely based on psychology, i.e. his attitude of manly confidence and dominance, which will, of course, be destroyed as a result of rape.

    A woman’s SMV is based on appearance, and this will not be destroyed in a rape unless physical mutilation is part of the crime.

    Man would look at a hot chick and never know she’d been raped. Women would look at an otherwise attractive man who had been raped and know something was wrong with him, since psychological devastation would manifest itself in body language, and certainly he would not display the attractive psychological traits of the alpha.

    Use a man as a woman, and you are vandalizing him as a man – he is no longer useful as a man. Use a woman as a woman, and she is still useful as a woman.

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  51. mandy,

    i wrote two lines mentioning what you said and you respond with three posts?

    you can defend out current victim culture all you want. personally, i think it’s mostly bunk and mostly self-defeating. that goes for both men and women.

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  52. Really fellas? you rather have a giant black dong rammed up your ass? fair enough

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  53. @Tarl:

    “Man would look at a hot chick and never know she’d been raped. Women would look at an otherwise attractive man who had been raped and know something was wrong with him, since psychological devastation would manifest itself in body language, and certainly he would not display the attractive psychological traits of the alpha.”

    Well, an attractive woman who is turning all men down and is being ridiculously paranoid or avoidant could also be a cue to someone who was raped, although men probably won’t pick this up and think she’s a betch.

    Although, I will say, that regardless of whether it was a male or a female, give it time, and they’ll both be normal again. I mean, maybe a little modified, but all people change a little over time. I’d like to think their core essence stays the same. Yeah, maybe he’s doubting his masculinity then, but overtime he’ll build it back.

    I guess the point here made that cuckolding is more public is true. More people might know about the cuckolding than you. But, you could always dump the betch and move out of town!

    And isn’t there a law that says that if it’s not biologically yours you don’t have to pay for it? :/

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  54. K,

    You’re missing the point. Whereas the forcible rape of a woman is a blatant appropriation and seizure of her reproductive capacity (because exceptions notwithstanding, rape is biological and concerns sex, not nebulous “power”) to the benefit of a potential rapist’s child, cuckoldry is the deceptive appropriation and seizure of a man’s productive capacity, wealth, and physical protection –with belief that he’s providing these things to his own genetic offspring.

    That’s the parallel.

    Cuckoldry’s etymology is important. It derives from a species of bird that tricks another bird species into protecting its eggs and nurturing its offspring so that it doesn’t have to. That’s the operative principle in this usage of the term.

    Your desire to dilute its meaning by putting undue weight on the term’s synonymous use for a simply adulterous woman ignores the fact that in the European middle ages — from whence the term comes — the most immediate way that a woman was identified as a cheater was by bearing a child that was obviously not her husband’s.

    Childbirth is intrinsic to cuckold’s meaning because it dates from a time where, in the absence of reliable birth control and any genetic science, a wife discovered cheating would cast serious doubt on the paternity of her husband’s existent offspring — subjecting him to possible humiliation and them to presumed bastard-hood.

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  55. @J R:

    “i wrote two lines mentioning what you said and you respond with three posts?

    you can defend out current victim culture all you want. personally, i think it’s mostly bunk and mostly self-defeating. that goes for both men and women.”

    I’m not defending victim culture. I think if you’d actually learn to read, you’d see that I just said that things aren’t as easy for individuals as roissy painted it. He painted a skewed perspective, but I did mention that people get over it.

    You’re talking about a culture where people don’t get over shit. I agree with you in that that’s not healthy. But I don’t think it’s as bad as you say it is.

    I’m supporting a middle ground. But apparently, you never learned to read for comprehension. It’s okay, literacy isn’t for everyone.

    Like


  56. And what happens to the kid when he gets abandoned by a previously loving father??

    Sometimes I enjoy your writing Roissy but I certainly think that you have some real psychological shit to deal with..

    Could it be that this type of egomania is what is killing the united states, rather than the occasional gay or pathetic dog in a hairdressers as previously suggested??

    Like


  57. Anyone who gives more than a passing thought to those two scenarios is a fucking retard. You wouldn’t know that you didn’t have AIDS for months. Not to mention the very real possibility of PTSD. You set up the rape scenario more like a simple mugging. Sorry faggo, it ain’t like that.

    Like


  58. You know the funny thing about female rape? Women are programmed to have a certain reaction from it: Shutdown, go empty for a while, and adjust to the new society the women was just moved into. In the primeval world rape generally happened when a women was captured in a raid and was now part of a new group. It’s very much a societal reset button.

    You know the funny thing about cuckholding? Men are programmed to kill the women and/or the child produced by the cuckholding.

    In both cases the pain is very real. For a women having a child from a poor man can cause 18 years of raising a child they did not want to have. For men it’s a similar investment with cuckholding. Both cause pain as a way of warning us not to let it happen.

    A just and equal society would punish both crimes with equal punishment. An unjust society such as ours just laughs at the men who can do nothing about such crimes. I find the women here posting on this subject to be as evil as evil can be.

    Like


  59. While I side with cuckholding being worse (and it sucks that it is rewarded by law) and I understand the biology/passing down your genes/spreading your seed thing…

    …the author repeatedly talks about you doing things for “your” kid. And really, the child would be yours legally and socially, even though not biologically. You would have had more influence on that child than the biodad. The child looks at you as Daddy.

    However, the woman who perpetrated the original fraud should be compelled to provide financial restitution and child support until the kid is raised/college educated, and any conspirators (such as her best friend, who knew but didn’t say anything during the pregnancy) should be prosecuted.

    (Back in the old days on the farm when children were a financial and legal asset instead of a liability, if a guy was shooting blanks – although how would they know it was his problem and not her eggs – some people considered it a good thing if the wife discreetly conceived with someone else, never telling anyone. That provided in-house help on the farm. Nowadays, there is no excuse whatsoever for cuckoldry.)

    Like


  60. I will take the contra position to Mandy XD.

    She describes the extreme (PTSD) poor sequelae for rape victims, but that is not the typical nor the majority. On the other extreme of the outcome scale, was my college friend/roommate. She was very flirty – promiscuous and was raped by a man she met at a bar. Only a few months after the rape, she’s out flirting in bars again. She’s had no lasting problems and seems to have moved on without victim mentality.

    Like


  61. This was a rather, ahem, revealing post, both for the author and the commenters here.

    Like


  62. Anyone that participates in this survey is either gay or beta. Why don’t you post this question on Gawker where I presume they have plenty of both?

    Like


  63. mandy…

    are you kidding?

    you should learn to tell the difference between a disagreement and a personal attack. just cause lurker constantly calls you a cunt doesn’t mean you have to act like one.

    Like


  64. @anony:

    “She describes the extreme (PTSD) poor sequelae for rape victims, but that is not the typical nor the majority. On the other extreme of the outcome scale, was my college friend/roommate. She was very flirty – promiscuous and was raped by a man she met at a bar. Only a few months after the rape, she’s out flirting in bars again. She’s had no lasting problems and seems to have moved on without victim mentality.”

    It varies from person to person, and I’m not saying that it’s something that’s the same for everyone, but to say that everyone’s going to be okay two days afterwards is ridiculous.

    Even she needed a recovery period, and she’s fine now, and THAT’S GREAT. That’s how it should be for everyone. They should be able to go back to doing whatever they were doing before and be okay. Or at least, find some way to recover. Some faster than others.

    And, as I’ve stated, the same thing goes for cuckolding.

    (Also, do you think her promiscuity beforehand had to do with her speedy recovery? “One more, it doesn’t matter!”

    Or did she go through anything in particular to help her heal? Confiding in you, or writing, or just lots of exercise, or something?

    Just wondering.)

    Like


  65. For me, the worst parts of cuckoldry are the following….

    1) Depending on when you find out, it could have catastrophic effects on your ability to have children of your own. One could even consider it a form of genocide on a micro-scale. Just as we have a right to life and self-defense, we have a right to a reasonable attempt at fathering our own genetic children. To create our own family legacy. Culling our genes out of the gene-pool through deception is a HEINOUS crime.

    2) You have effectively been enslaved. Your labor has now gone to another set of individuals and you have no recourse whatsoever. Even supposing you are still young enough to obtain another fertile wife who even wants children, your resources will now have to go towards a bastard offspring of a whoring woman.

    3) The shame….yes there will be much public shame. People will see you and all they will associate with you is that your wife was a cheating whore and you were duped. It’s almost an automatic Beta-stamp. Try getting a good woman with that label hovering over your head.

    And to the people that think it is only a problem for Betas…..it is not. It is also a problem for Alphas……even a very Alpha man can be out-Alpha’d when the right guy comes along at the right moment. Unless of course your are unreasonable uneough to think a woman wouldn’t sleep with Brad Pitt because her husband is already “Alpha”.

    Like


  66. minion

    check out this white knighting by the golfer Jesper Parnevik. elin worked for him and his family as an au pair.

    yeah – let’s all give Tiger the “Bill Clinton Pass” for fucking around on his wife and kids with tons of skanks

    and lock-on to Parnevik’s words.

    he’s the culprit

    tres Alpha

    Like


  67. Mandy XD–

    Roissy, rape isn’t that easy. It’s something that stays with someone for the rest of their lives, and saying that someone’s going to work out their anger and shame through the gym is the biggest load of bs I’ve ever heard in my life.

    A victim, or survivor, whatever term you prefer, is lucky if they can even get out of bed on some days.

    Maybe it’s a little different for men, but such an attack on ANYONE is going to have lasting implications. There’s a little thing called RTS- Rape Trauma Syndrome, which is essentially Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. With it come night terrors, phobias, appetite changes, etc.

    The fact is that it varies tremendously between women — and to some extent the circumstances and nature of the rape.

    Feminists vastly exaggerate how lastingly traumatic it nearly always is, or later becomes they claim (to cover all bases). In fact it seems that many of them actually work to make it worse and harder to get over, to further their agenda.

    Certainly there are women that are deeply and lastingly traumatized by it. It’s certainly going to lastingly affect anyone’s sense of safety.

    Like


  68. Some women get oddly argumentative when men criticise cuckoldry. As Obsidian would say, hmmmmmmmm

    Like


  69. The implication of Roissy’s post appears to be not that rape (for a woman) is equivalent to cuckoldry (for a man), but that the latter is actually worse for men, because its effects, if these include pregnancy, go on for longer.

    In fact, though, rape can have all kinds of unexpected and lasting consequences for women. It can end in pregnancy, thus imposing a terrible decision on a woman. It can end in STDs and permanent loss of fertility. It can even end in divorce, because there are many husbands – even in the modern west among men who don’t actually blame women for being raped – who experience the rape of their wives as a violation of themselves, and who are deeply humiliated and even traumatized by it. In non-western countries, a woman’s rape can end in her death, as her male relatives regard it as a symbol of their collective dishonour. (And of course, male rapists sometimes murder their female victims; I don’t know what the statistics are for male victims of rape.)

    I agree that cuckoldry, esp. if it ends in the birth of a child whom a man is wrongly led to believe belongs to him, is terrible. But I don’t see the point of making comparisons of this kind. It’s possible to get women to imagine the awfulness of misidentifying a child without resorting to such tactics.

    Like


  70. You are walking past an alleyway when Big Bad Bubba comes up behind you and drags you into the dark alley, muttering “you look real purty for a grown boy”

    That’s kinda hot,
    but not really how we Big Beautiful Black Bears
    commanded our teenage white bitchboys in The Joint

    Like


  71. With the social welfare state we are all cuckolds now!

    Like


  72. Roissy is 100% correct about this — cuckoldry is worse than ass-rape. Why? Because you just lost the only game that matters — the reproductive success game. i.e. passing your genes on.

    BTW the corollary to this is that females cheating on men is not equal to males cheating on females. Why?

    Because men cannot become pregnant. Therefore, they are not the same “crime”.

    This, BTW, is genetically ingrained in us. Most men are more likely to dump a cheating GF, than a GF is to dump a cheating BF.

    In other words, the male and female sexes have differing sexual jealousy responses due to biological differences and outcomes.

    BTW comments like JR’s here: http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/12/03/cuckoldry-vs-butt-rape/#comment-148759

    are fucking beta nonsense.

    “also, from the radical feminist perspective rape is not just an isolated crime. it is just an expression of a larger patriarchy that continually oppresses women.”

    @JR

    Shut the fuck up. Rape has nothing to do with “an expression of a larger patriarchy that continually oppresses women.”

    Rape is about sex, not power. It is a strategy used by both very low quality omega males that have almost no mating prospects whatsoever (e.g. illegal immigrant) AS WELL AS very high quality alpha males (e.g. pick your Kennedy) that do not fear sanctions for their actions.

    Like


  73. @Mandy,

    And, as I’ve stated, the same thing goes for cuckolding.

    (Also, do you think her promiscuity beforehand had to do with her speedy recovery? “One more, it doesn’t matter!” Or did she go through anything in particular to help her heal? Confiding in you, or writing, or just lots of exercise, or something? Just wondering.)

    We seem to agree that the spectrum for getting over it is huge.
    I think she recovered fast because 1) she had lots of friends to talk to including her mother and sister (ie.: not hiding it from family). 2) he was apprehended and she participated in his prosecution (costing her time travel and work hours)). 3) none of us friends treated her like a victim. 4) she had a busy full life with no time for sulking.

    It’s been 25 years, so this question inspires me to want to ask her about getting over it, given her retrospective now.

    Like


  74. there are many husbands – even in the modern west among men who […] who experience the rape of their wives as a violation of themselves.

    Of course! and you think that’s wrong or backward?

    Rape of a woman IS an offense agains her own person, that’s obvious. But rape also IS a crime against her men, be it her father or her husband.

    In fact, war-rape or ethnically/racially-motivated rape is PRIMARILY intended as a violation of the enemy’s men.

    In the modern West, human nature is the same as it is among primitive tribesmen. There are no reasons why one would think otherwise.

    Like


  75. The retard is strong in this thread.

    It just astonishes me how many people can trivialise and deny such pure evil as cuckoldry.

    Personally, I think it’s one of the few cases in private life where immediate murder of the offending woman is totally justified.

    Like


  76. This post and comments reinforce my belief that all analogies are incomplete. Analogies can serve to instruct, or educate, but fail to support an argument.

    Like


  77. @Doug 1:

    I’ll respond to your post later, but I’ll just start with some of it left a bad taste in my mouth. Saying that feminists exaggerate things to further their agenda is, well…:/

    I’m not lying that some feminists, like Biting Beaver, take it to a point of, well, ridiculousness. I read one of Biting Beaver’s blog posts,”OMG MY SON IS GOING TO RAPE PEOPLE OMG!!!”

    And the “all men are rapists” campaign they seem to push is a little bit…awkward.

    But….

    I don’t know, I’ll get to it later. I’m not making sense at this point.

    Like


  78. patrik,

    Shut the fuck up.

    tough words for the internet, bud.

    perhaps you missed the “from a radical feminist perspective” part of what i said. you should learn the difference between stating someone else’s beliefs and saying that you agree with them.

    Like


  79. @anony:

    Those things are very helpful. Having family there for you in any situation is helpful.

    And keeping busy is also good in any situation. Keeps your mind off things.

    I’ve heard prosecution is often a form of closure for survivors.

    I feel bad for the girls who don’t have people to turn to.

    Like


  80. Ken–

    …the author repeatedly talks about you doing things for “your” kid. And really, the child would be yours legally and socially, even though not biologically. You would have had more influence on that child than the biodad. The child looks at you as Daddy.

    It should be up to the father whether he continues to want the child to be his. He should be able to just walk away.

    I know I’d feel tremendous conflict about 10 year old kid I’d bonded with. I wouldn’t much with a 3yo I don’t think. I’d walk away. With the 10 year old I’d feel like a chump to go on as if nothing had fundamentally changed once I knew the truth. Partly that’s because I believe (on the basis of a ton of scientific evidence that tends to not be conveyed to people in their schooling or the media) that DNA is VERY important.

    With a ten year old the realities are the cuckolded husband will probably never have his own kids. That possibility at least without enormous additional sacrifice has probably been taken from him.

    Cuckolding with ongoing feminist laws mandated continuing child support paid to the whoring ex wife at very high and uncapped percentages of after tax (take home) income, regardless of what the man wants, is far, far worse. Any woman that can’t see that is a piece of shiite in my opinion.

    The only thing comparable would be a rape that results in a pregancy with the woman deeply opposed to abortion under all circumstances. Note however how even a majortity of opponents to abortion rights make an exception for rape. Further the woman will know or certain be able to find out and have reason to seriously suspect that the pregnancy is from the rapist, and will have the option even if she doesn’t abort of giving it up for adoption if she or her husband can’t bare it (and she’s loyal to him). Even if she did make the choice to keep the kid it would be a knowing choice from the beginning.

    So in the end rape even when pregnancy results isn’t nearly as bad.

    Like


  81. Patrik –

    JR wasn’t espousing the radical feminist perspective (probably why he termed it “radical,” after all), but stating it for contrast against Roissy’s view point, and offering it up for further critique.

    Attacking him on this was totally pointless.

    Like


  82. @ Patrik:

    “Shut the fuck up. Rape has nothing to do with “an expression of a larger patriarchy that continually oppresses women.”

    Rape is about sex, not power. It is a strategy used by both very low quality omega males that have almost no mating prospects whatsoever (e.g. illegal immigrant) AS WELL AS very high quality alpha males (e.g. pick your Kennedy) that do not fear sanctions for their actions.”

    J R said absolutely nothing about agreeing with the statement. He said,”From a radical feminist perspective.”

    Did he ever say it was from HIS perspective? Do you think he’s a radical feminist?

    Like


  83. I suppose it all depends on what I was wearing (and if said attire was projecting an air of “wanting it”) as to the amount of long lasting bitterness I might harbor after involuntarily receiving a serving a cream cheese squirted through some bull queer’s bologna roll-up…

    Clearly, cuckoldry has a much more measurable impact on one’s life given the financial implications and time commitment involved in raising some cunt’s bastard turd. Ugh.

    Like


  84. I think it’s hard for women to empathize with cuckoldry because most women, if placed in the position of finding “a baby in a basket on the doorstep” would love to fulfill the fantasy of nurturing it to flourish under her unique superior nurturing skills. (given adequate resources and support).

    Like


  85. Patrik

    Roissy is 100% correct about this — cuckoldry is worse than ass-rape. Why? Because you just lost the only game that matters — the reproductive success game. i.e. passing your genes on.

    Well yeah, except Roissy openly admits he doesn’t give a shit about the reproductive success game, so he can’t argue that that game “matters”.

    jordiBCN

    And what happens to the kid when he gets abandoned by a previously loving father??

    He can take it up with his cheating cunt of a mother.

    aliasclio

    In fact, though, rape can have all kinds of unexpected and lasting consequences for women. It can end in pregnancy, thus imposing a terrible decision on a woman. It can end in STDs and permanent loss of fertility. It can even end in divorce, because there are many husbands – even in the modern west among men who don’t actually blame women for being raped – who experience the rape of their wives as a violation of themselves, and who are deeply humiliated and even traumatized by it. In non-western countries, a woman’s rape can end in her death, as her male relatives regard it as a symbol of their collective dishonour. (And of course, male rapists sometimes murder their female victims; I don’t know what the statistics are for male victims of rape.)

    Cuckolding not just can, but does, have all kinds of unexpected and lasting consequences for men. It can end in his wife being pregnant. It can end in her getting an STD and giving it to him. It can (and should) even end in divorce, because there are many husbands, even in the modern west, who experience their wives having another man’s child as a violation of themselves, and who are deeply humiliated and even traumatized by it.

    In short, if you’re trying to establish that female rape is worse than a man being cuckolded, EPIC FAIL.

    Like


  86. anony

    I think it’s hard for women to empathize with cuckoldry because most women, if placed in the position of finding “a baby in a basket on the doorstep” would love to fulfill the fantasy of nurturing it to flourish under her unique superior nurturing skills. (given adequate resources and support).

    That cuckoo didn’t get in her basket by accident.

    Therefore what you are saying here is that women, on the whole, have no problem cheating with an alpha and getting a beta to pay for it. But tell us something we didn’t know already!

    Like


  87. @ Mandy:

    “Roissy, rape isn’t that easy. It’s something that stays with someone for the rest of their lives, and saying that someone’s going to work out their anger and shame through the gym is the biggest load of bs I’ve ever heard in my life.”

    why is this bs to you? while i as a male haven’t been raped by anyone, i can imagine feeling like a fucking sissy afterwards, wanting to compensate somehow. i take it you’re a woman and as such doesn’t know what it feels like when your masculinity is inadequate.

    ““Two sick days off” and that’s it?”

    i think you misinterpreted this; as i understood it going back to work after two days didn’t neccesarily mean the trauma was over. it was more like taking two days off to get yourself together after the initial shock.

    Like


  88. Ok, now I’m starting to see J R’s point here.

    “OMG WE MENPEOPLE HAVE IT SO MUCH WORSE THAN YOU WOMENPEOPLES OMG WE GET CUCKOLDED ALL THE TIME.”

    “NO FEMALE RAEP IS BAAAD”

    “NO WE HAVE IT WORSE”

    “NO WE DO.”

    I am ashamed.

    Like


  89. I think it’s hard for women to empathize with cuckoldry

    A good analogy for a woman woudl be a husband who conspires with a fertility clinic to implant another woman’s egg in his otherwise-fertile wife.

    Like


  90. aliasclio; PA

    It can even end in divorce, because there are many husbands – even in the modern west among men who don’t actually blame women for being raped – who experience the rape of their wives as a violation of themselves, and who are deeply humiliated and even traumatized by it.

    I agree with PA. I would feel a violation of myself as well. Not equally a violation of me as of my wife, but yes a deep violation. Her being raped would never lead me to thoughts of divorce — at least if it was real rape. If it was of the feminist declared date rape variety, even if clearly fully truthful, that would be a much more mixed thing. I would feel wronged by her recklessly putting herself in that position. But we’d get through it as long as she wasn’t ardent feminist about it and acknowledged my feelings as well and took corrective steps. Of course that would be down the road.

    The one circumstance where I really might divorce a wife as a result of rape is if she insisted on both having the baby and keeping it, rather than giving it up for adoption. I would regard that as a gross violation of our bond and trust. Abortion would be so much better though. Because she’s likely to feel that she’s given away a part of her. But if she keeps it, I’m likely to feel she’s denying me all or half of my chances of reproducing. She would bear no such loss by giving the child up or having an abortion, either one. (Of course Plan B would be the go to immediate thing to do. And not it isn’t abortion, but rather works in the same way that birth control pills do by preventing fertilization in the vast majority of cases.

    Like


  91. on December 3, 2009 at 12:29 pm Cannon's Canon

    i’m guessing that mandy exclamation point voted anyway

    Like


  92. @Doug1

    There are few things in life a little “heavy-bag work” can’t solve, my friend…

    Like


  93. @Tarl,

    Therefore what you are saying here…..

    please don’t corrupt my message. I think you understand what I meant.

    Like


  94. To pick up on Doug’s comment, there are many secondary fallout consequences to the man whose wife got raped.

    For example, she may subconsciously blame him for not protecting her, and stop loving him. She may withdraw and be cold as a result of the psychological trauma. There are supposedly a lot of divorces after a rape; I used to think, as a kid, that it was the husband who rejected the damaged goods, if you will.

    But I suspect it’s more frequently because the wife, traumatized through no fault of her own, transfers her anger upon the husband. Who possibly exacerbates things by acting beta in a misguided effort at being caring and supportive.

    There is a reason why, given a cultural green light, people round up a posse and hang a rapist on the nearest tree, even more zealously than they do a murderer.

    Like


  95. Danger–

    And to the people that think it is only a problem for Betas…..it is not. It is also a problem for Alphas……even a very Alpha man can be out-Alpha’d when the right guy comes along at the right moment.

    It is also a problem for Alphas yes. The new guy doesn’t even have to be more alpha. The relationship just has to be more than four or so years old.

    She’ll feel the urges if she’s inclined that way and she lets herself. Yeah there may be a small percentage of women, less than 10% and probably more like 5% (of the total female population considering the divorce rate) if MRI brain scans are to be believed, who feel fully as romantically pair bonded after decades of marriage as in the second year of their love, but not the rest. Continuing bonded feelings yes, but at lot more attenuated and subject to the pull of alpha straying if she isn’t culturally, socially or economically strongly disinclined to go that way. Feminism has been working hard to remove all those hurdles to female cheating for many decades now.

    Like


  96. Canon’s Canon:

    I’m not a man.

    PA:

    I had a friend (male, believe it or not) once propose that rapist’s should have the word “rapist” carved on their hands so people would know what they did forever.

    Like


  97. How do you stop
    5 black guys
    from raping
    a white chick?

    *bad thread participation detected*

    mout

    Like


  98. on December 3, 2009 at 12:39 pm HUNGRY HUNGRY HIPPOS

    The people who chose to be cuckolded are mostly extreme betas, gay, or female.

    Like


  99. Mandy: that’s not a bad idea. But rape would have to be defined as a violently-obtained intercourse with a woman who was not in already sexual situation with the offender. In other words, real rape, not “date rape”.

    Like


  100. on December 3, 2009 at 12:41 pm HUNGRY HUNGRY HIPPOS

    Also Big Bad Bubba from the first scenario was probably the same guy my wife had a child with.

    Like


  101. This isn’t even a close call. I’m not sure if, to most women, being raped anally would compare to vaginally. Maybe it would, I just don’t know.

    But, I think I would still rather be butt raped in a prison cell for a couple days straight than be cuckolded. I don’t think any woman can say she’d rather have that happen than to be randomly raped once – especially in this day and age when she can prevent childbirth (and can even prevent conception with a morning after pill, if she’s not already on the pill).

    Like


  102. on December 3, 2009 at 12:45 pm Dr. Grzlickson

    “Suddenly, a seering pain shoots up your rectum.”

    LOL, that deserves an exclamation point.

    “A good analogy for a woman woudl be a husband who conspires with a fertility clinic to implant another woman’s egg in his otherwise-fertile wife.”

    How the F would that ever happen?

    Like


  103. Here is a better anaology for female cuckoldry: a husband conspires with a fertility clinic to implant another woman’s egg, fertilized by him, in a surrogate, with the wife thinking her egg was used.

    No pregnancy wear and tear, same genetic fraud.

    Like


  104. My analogy assumes a woman who has good eggs but cannot keep a pregancy.

    Like


  105. on December 3, 2009 at 12:46 pm HUNGRY HUNGRY HIPPOS

    If there’s mandatory paternity testing and I’m absolved of any commitment right when the child is born, then I think I’d rather be cuckolded. Obviously in the current climate it’s not even a close call, butt raped.

    Like


  106. on December 3, 2009 at 12:47 pm Sensitive Jerk

    Start with the cost to raise the kid. I’m going with four year’s salary. Is being raped once as bad as paying four year’s salary to raise a strange dude’s spunchkin when you thought the kid was yours? Remember, the whole nature of the kid would change immediately, from hopes-and-dreams material (you’d probably die for it) to something much worse than zero.

    Like


  107. @PA:

    “Mandy: that’s not a bad idea. But rape would have to be defined as a violently-obtained intercourse with a woman who was not in already sexual situation with the offender. In other words, real rape, not “date rape”.”

    Define “sexual situation.”

    Suppose a girl, who has a crush on a slightly older male, kisses him back.

    Suppose the slightly older male tries to take it further, and, after she expresses her discomfort, says he understands, and does it anyway.

    What if she repeatedly says no? What if the most “sexual” thing they did was kiss?

    Also, does her sexual history matter? What if she was a virgin? What if she had twenty sexual partners before him, all of them one night stands?

    Does their previous relationship matter?

    Does alcohol make a difference? If he was drunk, should he still be punished?

    What if she screamed and he covered her mouth?

    What if he overtook her and left cuts and bruises on her that took weeks to heal, but still healed nonetheless?

    Is that violent enough?

    Is that clearly rape?

    What if she screamed and no one heard her?

    What if this all happened because her friends left her at a party and she was under the false pretense that he would make sure she got back safely?

    What if this all happened because she wanted to hang out with him, alone, in his room?

    Too many variables.

    Like


  108. “Here is a better anaology for female cuckoldry: a husband conspires with a fertility clinic to implant another woman’s egg, fertilized by him, in a surrogate, with the wife thinking her egg was used.

    No pregnancy wear and tear, same genetic fraud.”

    Not really – your scenario implies that the wife was already incapable of bearing a child herself, so her opportunities were not really lost in that sense. She probably also would never be hit with the financial burden. The bonding fraud is probably analogous, but it’s not clear whether the impact of that on women would be the same.

    Like


  109. A female can answer this question by choosing between the following:

    A) A man you are out on a date with forces himself on you against your will. After he completes the act, you get away from him and never see him again.

    B) Your newborn child is secretly switched at the hospital with another infant — that of your husband and his mistress. Your husband says nothing as you raise that child as your own for 10 years, at which point you find out what happened.

    Pick one.

    Challenging the puzzle instead of picking A or B means that you pick A.

    Like


  110. I had a friend (male, believe it or not) once propose that rapist’s should have the word “rapist” carved on their hands so people would know what they did forever.

    I’m fine with that if “False Rape Accuser” gets carved in the foreheads of women who make such false accusations, so people would know what they did, forever.

    anony

    @Tarl,

    Therefore what you are saying here…..

    please don’t corrupt my message. I think you understand what I meant.

    I did not corrupt it, I clarified it.

    “Most women don’t care who the baby’s father is, so long as there is a beta to pay for it, and are happy to have the state coerce the beta into paying for it” is the essence of the “fantasy” you describe.

    Like


  111. B) Your newborn child is secretly switched at the hospital with another infant — that of your husband and his mistress. Your husband says nothing as you raise that child as your own for 10 years, at which point you find out what happened.

    This is not equivalent, because the woman in this case still has a baby somewhere . Her resources are expended on the wrong baby, but someone else’s resources are being expended on her baby, and genetically she has still succeeded. The male cuckold, on the other hand, does not have a baby anywhere. His resources are being expended on the wrong baby, and on top of that he has no baby and genetically he has failed.

    And no, pointing out the flaws in your analogy does not mean I picked A.

    Like


  112. @Fred:

    B).

    All the way.

    I mean, think, we terrible womenfolk could always just divorce the loser and dump the child on him! He’s gotta pay for eight more years! yeehaw!

    Ok, I kid. But still. I love kids. B. I think the point anony made earlier was pretty good. A woman can find a child on her doorstep and want to raise it, even if it isn’t hers. Maternal instincts. All that jazz.

    Like


  113. There is no real comparison other than what Roissy mentioned above.

    The reason being that women love babies, whether their own or not. You don’t see men throwing baby showers or cooing over them. Women do that. It is part of their “nurturing” need. That is why they are women and desire the raising of a child. Their hormones and genetics make that a desire for them. Preferably their own, but if it’s another baby, that will do.

    The comment in the articles above about mens “irrational need” to father their own genetic children betrays that thought process within women. To them it is irrational because their genetics and hormones tell them it is.

    Like


  114. Anony – no analogy will be perfect because men and women are not the same. I suspect that for some hormonal or biological reason, women don’t find the idea of maternity/paternity fraud AS shatteringly humiliating as men do. Even in an unlikely scenario it happens to them.

    Perhaps men invest all of their ego in the child they assume is their own, while women are more “nonchalant” abnou tthe idea. I dunno. On an emotional level, I woudl stick with Roissy’s equivalence of rape of a woman and cuckolding of a man.

    Mandi – I woudl defnie ‘sexual situation’ as any physical inimacy that arouses the person. So yes, kissing too. Now, I wouldn’t rape a girl who got cuddly with me, but some men would. Some might even do so in “good faith,” feeling that the girl actually does want it.

    I think ultimately it shoudl be up to the girl to ensure her safety by not getting into any kissiface with any guy unless she is prepared to risk his getting out of control. That’s what was once called a woman’s honor.

    Even in pre-Victorian England, like in bawdy Shakespeare times, it was assumed that a girl who lets herself be alone with a man and allows sexuality to reat its horly little head, is responsible for setting off a chain of events that may lead to rape.

    I will not stay thy questions; let me go:
    Or, if thou follow me, do not believe
    But I shall do thee mischief in the wood.

    – Demetrius to Helena, who has an unrequited crush on him, and keeps following him into the woods
    “A Midsummer’s Night Dream”

    Like


  115. on December 3, 2009 at 1:13 pm Seeking Alpha

    @ Mandy

    Based on this:

    I had a friend (male, believe it or not) once propose that rapist’s should have the word “rapist” carved on their hands so people would know what they did forever.

    And your other long post…

    I’m guessing either you or someone close to you was raped? Well, ‘raped’.

    Like


  116. on December 3, 2009 at 1:16 pm Seeking Alpha

    I meant to add that the guy friend probably said that because he’s a beta with a crush on you and thought that by sympathizing with what you or (more likely) your friend went through.

    Like


  117. Seeking Alpha

    @ Mandy

    Based on this:

    I had a friend (male, believe it or not) once propose that rapist’s should have the word “rapist” carved on their hands so people would know what they did forever.

    And your other long post…

    I’m guessing either you or someone close to you was raped? Well, ‘raped’.

    great neg

    i was so wrong about you

    Like


  118. on December 3, 2009 at 2:30 pm Wendy Schwartz

    OMG!!! Lmao….”cuckolding”.

    The main difference I’d say is that one is IMAGINARY and the other is an actual crime.

    Hmmm let’s see….doesn’t take a genius here kids. Cuckolding is something that you cannot “have done to you” unless you ALLOW it to happen, make the choice to LET it happen, and choose to continue to let it be done to you. There is nothing taken by “cuckolding” that was forced from you. There is no “victim” in cuckolding. I’d think the clear difference between the two would be easy to see by anyone who is NOT legally retarded.

    (honest to God I have to type through tears of laughter that people are serious when they talk about cuckolding at ALL. It’s like talking about the Boogeyman as if he exists. I sincerely BEG a man here to PLEASE go in front of a Judge with a straight face and try to sue for “Cuckoldry”….lmao…omg…)

    Rape is an actual crime, a physical and mental violation of which the victim has NO CONTROL OR CHOICE in the matter. They have had all their “rights” as humans taken away by force. THAT is a victim.

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  119. @PA:

    “I think ultimately it shoudl be up to the girl to ensure her safety by not getting into any kissiface with any guy unless she is prepared to risk his getting out of control.”

    I think it should be up to a man to not be a piece of shit and rape women.

    Idk, that’s just me.

    “I’m a man! I have no control!”

    He’s a human being, not an animal. Seriously, you just degraded men to the level of animals. Are you admitting to that? Are you saying that men lack cerebral cortexes?

    I agree that women should not put themselves in dangerous situations. Drinking until you pass out on a fraternity couch is a BAD IDEA.

    Drinking until you can’t fight people off is a bad idea. Drinking until you can’t remember things from the night before is a bad idea. Taking all your clothes off and running around naked is a bad idea.

    But a woman should be able to kiss a man and have it be just that. A kiss.

    Like


  120. @Seeking Alpha:

    His mom was raped.

    Like


  121. on December 3, 2009 at 2:32 pm Wendy Schwartz

    A “soul rape”?

    Ummm, any real rape whether it’s the rape of man vs. man or man vs. woman is a rape of the mind, body, and soul.

    I sincerely hope that ANYONE here who thinks that “cuckolding” is the same as an actual rape gets 100 huge dicks jammed up their ass for being that stupid in the first place.

    [Editor: You are possibly THE biggest idiot to ever trounce in here. And I don’t say that lightly.]

    Like


  122. I would think cuckoldry, given the upswing of violence and rage at “the system”, will more likely incite a man to follow the path of Sodini and go on a murderous rampage.

    Why?

    1) Constant reminders of the “rape” that took place, YEARS after the occurrence; whether it be child support/alimony (if separated) or actually seeing the whore/bastard everyday (if still together). A living reminder, right in your face, that you were deceived and are powerless to do anything about it…except for taking justice into your own hands…

    2) Close proximity and knowledge of where your offender(s) live.

    On the flipnote – In all likelihood, you probably will never see your rapist again – and even if you do, the system is more likely to punish the rapist. While the phrase “out of sight out of mind” doesn’t 100% apply, its quasi-applicable here.

    Like


  123. The majority of women have no problem with cuckoldry for the same reason women are women: because they view themselves as special little snowflakes who are entitled to do what they please. If they cheat, it is their prerogative to do so, and they shouldn’t have to pick up the pieces or bear responsibility (in their minds). The posts comparing cuckoldry to rape are not a perfect analogy, but damn close. But as everyone knows, logic and women do not mix, which explains the endless stream of drivel we see from the resident moronic female posters on this topic.

    As far as predominantly male legislatures not addressing cuckoldry, I can only guess that it is the same reason that most men still put the pussy on the pedestal despite endless proof doing so is counterproductive to their own needs: biomechanical ignorance.

    Like


  124. on December 3, 2009 at 1:42 pm Stud Dynamite

    The reason cuckolding wives and interlopers justify it (as in better than rape) is their intent – he was never supposed to find out. Some will even rationalize it further to “it’s his fault he kept digging”.
    Overall, I got no answer… I guess how easily a guy can take a butt rape is largely based on his previous self-confidence. I.e. I’d imagine Chuck Norris or Jack Bauer would get over it. Average not-so-confident guy will be destroyed.

    Like


  125. @RB:

    I don’t think any of the women on this blog are remotely in favor of cuckolding.

    I don’t know where you got that idea.

    Like


  126. I would even wager that legislatures would be less likely to address cuckoldry as perhaps they are more likely to be the “alpha” male in the equation…..especially when you consider their money, status, etc,…

    If that is the case, they wouldn’t want their paternity to be revealed. Better for the cuckold to raise their child than to go through a career-destroying expose……

    Like


  127. on December 3, 2009 at 1:48 pm Usually Lurking

    Completely off topic:

    PA, for anyone interested in Polish Nationalism has to read this new piece by Sailer: http://www.takimag.com/article/mad_man/

    Like


  128. on December 3, 2009 at 1:48 pm Cannon's Canon

    mandy exclamation point:

    when i proposed that you voted anyway, i did not mean that you were a man

    usually, suffrage starts at age 18

    you must be THIS tall to ride!

    Like


  129. on December 3, 2009 at 1:52 pm Stud Dynamite

    @ RB:

    The majority of women have no problem with cuckoldry for the same reason women are women: because they view themselves as special little snowflakes who are entitled to do what they please.

    Women are women? I hate to sound like some kind of women-defending mangina, but come on, you as a man don’t *feel* you’re entitled to cheat and do what you please? Perhaps you, sir, are a beta mangina?
    The reason female cheating is worse was covered many times here and everywhere – most of the time it’s a bulletproof confirmation she doesn’t love the cheatee and lies that she does, while men are capable of loving their girl and still getting action on the side. Besides that, I am definitely entitled to do what I please. There are of course logical limits – that are based on overall shittiness of a human being in question i.e. – fucking friend’s girl, screwing someone over and not caring etc. Cuckolding is the ultimate of that shittiness category.

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  130. I just wanna state – for the record –
    that I’m totally against rape

    there, I said it

    Like


  131. PA,

    I woudl defnie ’sexual situation’ as any physical inimacy that arouses the person. So yes, kissing too. Now, I wouldn’t rape a girl who got cuddly with me, but some men would. Some might even do so in “good faith,” feeling that the girl actually does want it.

    I think ultimately it shoudl be up to the girl to ensure her safety by not getting into any kissiface with any guy unless she is prepared to risk his getting out of control. That’s what was once called a woman’s honor.

    do you really think that a woman putting herself in any physically intimate situation absolves a man of any and all rape or sexual assault charges? that seems rather extreme and pretty counterproductive. it’s exactly the sort of thing that the feminists want to hear you say. a more reasonable position would be that women should be more mindful of the situations they put themselves in and men should not assume that a girl who fools around with him has consented for a full trip around the bases.

    i think of it like this: if you’re walking down the street with a hundred dollars sticking out of your pocket, you may be doing something really stupid, but the guy who snatches it is still a thief.

    Like


  132. on December 3, 2009 at 2:04 pm HUNGRY HUNGRY HIPPOS

    I wonder what would feel worse… Getting raped or being severely beaten up or shot?

    Like


  133. @Canon’s Canon:

    You’ve been trying to figure out whether I’ve turned 18 or not for the past couple of days, haven’t you?

    Confession:

    I turned 18 in October.

    Like


  134. Here’s what women can’t seem to comprehend about this. When you ask a man if it would be traumatic for him to be raped by a woman (were it possible), he would pretty much laugh. The answer is no. He might not like being with some women (especially revolting ones), but he’d be over it in an hour. We all understand that evolution only endowed the traumatic emotional response to rape on women as a way to protect their reproctive and genetic choice. But, as men, we understand that their psychology is different and we accept their trauma.

    On the flip side, many women can’t seem to grasp that, even if they would not be so affected, a man would suffer serious emotional trauma from cuckholding, simply because they can’t project themselves psychologically into that place. Evolution did not give women an emotional revulsion to the cuckolding scenario, because they didn’t need it to protect their reproductive interests. There was no real risk to them there (the hospital scenarios that posters conjure up above aren’t even analogous because nothing like that could have realistically happened 100,000 to a million years ago in africa). And, unlike with most men, most women seem incapable of accepting that a naturally different reaction by members of the opposite sex would have evolved over time. They insist on differentiating cuckoldry from rape because, well, it would feel different to them. Well, hey, I’d much rather be raped by a woman than cuckolded (by a factor of 100,000,000), so I guess we should get rid of rape laws.

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  135. Mandy! XD

    Confession:

    I turned 18 in October.

    srsly, we dont use your PR calendar in this country, we use the American one. thats like ‘dog years’ or something and still makes you illegal. in the jailbait way, not border hopping way no offense

    Like


  136. Cuckolding is soul-rape, far far far far far worse than the physical unwanted ramming of a dick up the ass.

    Like


  137. Anon summed it up very nicely.

    Some evolutionary psychologists, like David Buss, propose that men and women have a different “theory of mind” towards the opposite sex (“theory of mind” being a conceptualisation of how other people think and feel – the opposite sex in this case).

    Like


  138. on December 3, 2009 at 2:29 pm Higher-order thinking

    What a horrid crime, to invest years in developing an actual relationship with a new human life, to get a chance to educate and protect, to have it learn from your wisdom, share your hobbies/sports, to become a man by raising a child.

    Wait, there’s nothing wrong with that…oh right, the crime is that the child does not contain 1/2 of your DNA code. How reductionist. One of the benefits of self-awareness is the ability to move beyond base evolutionary concerns. Such as, you know, not committing rape any time you feel the need to release some seed. Besides, if you need to think of it in these terms, if it shares your genetic code it’ll likely become another closet Beta who needs to learn a dating calculus in order to interact with females. Whereas the child from a cheating wife is probably true Alpha material, one who can regale you with stories of banging 15yo cheerleaders.

    Or: Much better to have black missiles rammed through your brown star, at least it’ll improve your ab workout for a few months.

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  139. do you really think that a woman putting herself in any physically intimate situation absolves a man of any and all rape or sexual assault charges?

    No. Where did I say a man is absolved of responsibility? I said that a woman needs to exercise due diligence in not getting herself in harm’s way, including a grey area where the guy honestly thinks it’s legitimate sex and she does not.

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  140. Well there’s a nice shaming technique.

    It’s a crime if the man wants his own genetic child and she has now robbed him of that.

    Wyy is the man’s desire of his own genetic legacy of no importance? Why should his desires be ridiculed and demonzed? Are they really so bad? Is it really awful to want your own child?

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  141. would be traumatic for him to be raped by a woman (were it possible)

    I’m reminded of a scene in “The World According to Garp,” in which a nurse, who was a proto-single mom and a radical feminist, impregnated herself by sitting on a commatose vet in a hospital.

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  142. Let’s see; scenario one, ass-rape, I can legally cut my rapists balls off in defending myself. Scenario two, I will legally have my own balls cut off if I attempt to defend myself. Whenever one of them, “he killed his whole family” things happens, I figure some dude found out it wasn’t really his family.

    Neither of these things is likely to actually happen to me, but of course the second one is a bigger horror story. It’s the true ruination of a life; many lives, in fact. It’s also less easily avoided than scenario one, considering the statistics.

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  143. That post was directed at you “higher order”…..

    And as mentioned above….even alphas can be cuckolded…..alpha is a relative term.

    Men have a right to father their own children and expect their women to NOT deceive them for their own genetic benefit.

    To defend that is ridiculous.

    Like


  144. “One of the benefits of self-awareness is the ability to move beyond base evolutionary concerns.”

    One of the downsides to “self-awareness”: rationalizing being a soulless gelding.

    Like


  145. @PA:

    “No. Where did I say a man is absolved of responsibility? I said that a woman needs to exercise due diligence in not getting herself in harm’s way, including a grey area where the guy honestly thinks it’s legitimate sex and she does not.”

    Unless I misunderstood you (which if I did, I apologize), you stated that kissing and being alone with a man could (in the man’s eyes) be seen as consent. Legitimate sex. How is that even a grey area? No means no. If she kisses him and he pushes forward, and she says no, then it’s no. If she keeps saying no, it’s still no. No means no.

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  146. on December 3, 2009 at 2:50 pm Higher-order thinking

    “It’s a crime if the man wants his own genetic child and she has now robbed him of that.”

    Yeah, because men have such a short window of reproductive capability.

    Divorce the bitch and find another one.

    It’s wrong to cheat on a spouse. It’s even worse to get pregnant through such cheating and try to pass off the child as being from the spouse. However, it’s not some horrific violation on par with actual physical rape – you invested some resources, and in return got to raise a kid. If not having it share your genetic material means that much, you’ll have other opportunities to get a woman pregnant. You can’t rejuvenate your virgin asshole.

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  147. You’re right, Higher Order. In fact, being cuckolded sounds like such an honor that we should all volunteer for it, just to form great relationships with other mens’ children (because those men are, of course, better than us and would it would be the highest honor to be forced to raise their children rather than our own).

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  148. PA,

    a woman needs to exercise due diligence in not getting herself in harm’s way

    then i absolutely concur. the really sad thing about the conventional wisdom on rape these days is that, if taken at face value, it leaves women without some of their traditional defenses (ie common sense). you can barely utter the sentiment that girls should be careful about drinking and partying with men, before some feminst or feminist tool starts spouting off about ‘blaming the victim.’

    higher,

    How reductionist. One of the benefits of self-awareness is the ability to move beyond base evolutionary concerns.

    i agree with your argument against reductionism. people don’t have to go through life acting out their supposed genetic imperatives. at the same time, however, we’re not just disembodied minds floating in pure philosophical ether. food, shelter, clothing… those are all “base evolutionary concerns.” try moving beyond them and tell me how far you get.

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  149. Since I’m a cheap sonofabitch, I chose to be anally raped. At least it would involve someone I didn’t know, and I wouldn’t have to pay. But it doesn’t mean I’m gay. That scenario is very unlikely for a stocky dude like me

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  150. Women don’t see cuckolding as a big deal because they would raise another person’s child (knowingly). The issue about the switching in the hospital is telling, though. I would bet quite a bit of money that if the switch rate in hospitals was 10%, women would be totally fucking up in arms about it, despite all nurturing protestations to the contrary. It’s knowing vs unknowing. Cuckolding is fraud — the woman knows who the father is, and her husband does not. Therefore it is totally unlike the stork leaving something on the doorstep. Only a woman could come up with such an inapposite analogy.

    Like


  151. Higher-order thinking

    What a horrid crime, to invest years in developing an actual relationship with a new human life, to get a chance to educate and protect, to have it learn from your wisdom, share your hobbies/sports, to become a man by raising a child.

    Wait, there’s nothing wrong with that…oh right, the crime is that the child does not contain 1/2 of your DNA code. How reductionist. One of the benefits of self-awareness is the ability to move beyond base evolutionary concerns.

    Based on this logic, if there is no “crime” in making a man father a child without his consent, then there is no “crime” in banging women without their consent. You’re just giving them the opportunity to have a short but very meaningful relationship with another human being! Can’t women move beyond their base concerns and learn to love their violators? It’s only sex, no big deal, right?

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  152. Higher order,

    And just how many men out there do not even know they were cuckolded?

    How many find out when they are too old to find a decent woman and have another child?

    Physically, your vagina will shrink back within no time at all (not that it lessons the emotional damage from rape)……whereas my bank account will have been wasted entirely on someone that I thought was my own child.

    In all likelihood, I will have experienced micro-genocide. This crime is as heinous as rape is. This is why Roissy compares the two.

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  153. C’mon Roissy: this is a totally disengenuous scenario. You pair a best case scenario ass-rape with a worst case scenario cuckolding. You could, with equal justification, set up the scenario so that the protagonist gets AIDS in the raping and never knows about his wife’s child-free one-night-stand. If you did this, the balance of votes would be very different. If you want to conduct an honest thought experiment, don’t stack the deck.

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  154. Mandy: And isn’t there a law that says that if it’s not biologically yours you don’t have to pay for it?

    I can’t believe someone who reads Roissy would actually say something so ignorant.

    Like


  155. @ Usually Lurking

    Szukalski is an utter genius. This reminds me to buy some of the bronzes of his work. Very cool that Sailer noticed him; I thought it was just me and my weird friends. It certainly was just me and my pals when his work was making the rounds.

    Like


  156. Look guys. I’m going to be very clear on my opinion of this. This comes from a man that is young 20’s but is in no rush to have a kid, however I DO want to have a kid one day so the idea of cuckoldry deeply offends me.

    Since butt rape is the less realistic scenario (especially for those that live in modern, American suburbia and not gang-land neighborhoods) than I will have to choose cuckoldry as worse.

    Think of personalization of a sandwich or an apartment. You create it in your image. You want that sandwich to have your toppings. A sandwich/sub is a very personal item for many like myself. I have a specific way to make it/order it and enjoy it and it satisfies me knowing that I created it to cater to my needs. Selfish? Yes. Same with an apartment/house that you buy with nobody else involved. You create it, decorate it and revel in all it’s glory. Your glory.

    When you have a child with a woman that you “love”. You are passing YOUR genes on. You are living on when you pass away through a child. That essentially is the only true form of immortality…passing on your lineage. Let’s say you are 30 years old when you marry, you have a child at 32-33 and then 10 years later at age 42/43 you find out this information about a child you put ALL your life into and a wife you put ALL your life into.

    Beta or Alpha…maybe you were an alpha before you got married and then you still held a successful marriage but by a simple technicality you became a greater beta or technically a provider beta. You divorce the wife for her betrayal. You end up suffering emotionally knowing this child that you put ALL your life into and ALL your heart into is not yours. Thus you are perpetuating the spread of some other man’s genes by giving this child everything you had/could. You love the child still as it his not his fault and you decide that you want to help him out of the goodness of your heart. It should be YOUR decision how much to help him in the future and you should NOT be forced to have to pay if you do not want to. The wife should receive NOTHING and all proceeds towards the child should have receipts and be proofed by the courts. That would be the most correct thing in the interest of the father and the child…but ultimately it is the wife’s fault and if you decide to rescind everything then the wife should be responsible for her betrayal.

    We live in a society that this is not the case. We live in a society that a woman will scorn at the word prenup or screening to see if you are the real father. Do it regardless. Screen that child. I agree with Roissy whether you do it without or with her permission. It should be done.

    Buttrape is a much more joke-like scenario except mainly in prison…so it is clear that Roissy is merely using as that an extreme joke scenario to realize how bad it is to be cuckolded.

    Odds are at 42 after putting so much into previous marriage/child you will be a very different man. You will be angry. If you are a fighter like the man from Roissy’s previous article…that fights the system than you will become less trustworthy and much more intolerant and probably a strong alpha as well. You will also not trust the institution of marriage, and women and will most likely not be thinking of having a child anytime soon thus missing out on prime child raising years. If/when you have a child again you will not put the same type of effort and your child will suffer for it most likely carrying your genetics in a pathetic manner…unless he learns through circumstance how to become a man.

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  157. @nova,

    Cuckolding is fraud — the woman knows who the father is, and her husband does not. Therefore it is totally unlike the stork leaving something on the doorstep. Only a woman could come up with such an inapposite analogy.

    didn’t like my analogy, huh?
    I violated my own practice of using lame analogies to make a point.
    I understand your point about fraud vrs. open information. I think you likely understood my point too.: women don’t devalue the experience of raising a child with DNA discordance, and hence, have difficulty understanding that in men. But, “fraud” vrs. “open information”; yes, we get it.

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  158. @Matra:

    I’m sorry, I just didn’t think that that would be fair. The laws are to ensure fairness.

    Florida recently passed a law that states that men can overturn child support in the case that they discover that the child isn’t theirs (through genetic evidence).

    However, it doesn’t stop all injustices. This guy got screwed.

    http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0209/p01s01-usju.htm

    I guess mandatory paternity testing is the way to go.

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  159. Furthermore, if a woman does have a bachelorette pre-fuckup prior to wedding or matriomonials and she gets pregnant from that she owes it to herself and the man to abort that specific child and create a new one…This is out of respect. IF she is truly sorry for the indiscretion and genuinely feels bad…she will throw aside all her beliefs about how abortion is wrong or other type bullshit and she will fix this so that she knows the man she loves and made a mistake with has the honor and respect of a true fatherhood.

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  160. @nova,

    Only a woman could come up with such an inapposite analogy.

    this thread is full of miserably failed analogies by men.

    Like


  161. Roissy is talking about “the love your life” and the emotional devastation of her cheating being worse than rape. He really loves his girlfriend!

    Like


  162. Do the words “push poll” mean anything to you, Roissy?

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  163. @mandy,

    I guess mandatory paternity testing is the way to go.

    that is a non sequitur. Where is probable cause? Where is the codified crime? There is no medical justification to warrant a medical intervention. Why insult 98% of women, at a time of vulnerability, to find the 2% who commit an uncodified crime? Are you consistent in your belief to engage Big Government to solve your personal paranoias? Do you no longer believe in individual responsibilities? Who will pay for these mostly wasteful tests? are you reaching for my purse? , or opening yours?

    Like


  164. From the write up of the paternity fraud discovered post divorce rule on by the Florida Supreme Court, which MandyXD links above:

    “We recognize that the former husband in this case may feel victimized,” he writes. He then quotes a scholar to explain the ruling: “While some individuals are innocent victims of deceptive partners, adults are aware of the high incidence of infidelity and only they, not the children, are able to act to ensure that the biological ties they may deem essential are present.”

    In effect, the high court is saying it’s partly Parker’s fault for trusting his wife.

    Btw the Florida Supreme Court is notoriously leftist in philosophy, certainly much more so than the state legislature.

    It goes on:

    Unlike most duped ex-husbands in the US, Parker may still prevail in court. Last summer the Florida legislature passed a law that allows men to use newly discovered paternity evidence (like Parker’s DNA test results) to overturn a court order to pay child support for someone else’s child.

    The June 2006 law is aimed at preventing the kind of outcome ordered by the Florida Supreme Court. The policy approach taken by the Florida Legislature stands in sharp contrast to the “policy considerations” cited by the state supreme court justices.

    Supporters of the Florida law see it as a major step toward justice for deceived ex-husbands. Critics see it as a potential danger to the well-being of mothers and their vulnerable children.

    In addition to Florida, Ohio, Georgia, Maryland, Alabama, Indiana, Virginia, Arizona, and Wyoming have laws allowing ex-husbands to overturn a child-support order when deception or fraud by an ex-wife is discovered, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. By contrast, most other states set a one- to four-year deadline for fathers to file lawsuits challenging paternity determinations.

    I dispute the whole notion that a child has the legal right to some fixed and uncapped percentage of a father’s, not to mention a non biological father’s, income. It should be up to him – certainly in amounts over the basic welfare cash stipend when and if the mother would qualify for that. (I only make this last exception for reasons of political compromise.)

    Support from a man for women and children should have to be earned on an ongoing basis by the woman wanting that support, whether it’s from the bio dad or otherwise. Or else negotiated by a private agreement, not mandated by ever changing and worsening for men state statutes. Women should choose men they have children with, or unprotected sex with, carefully with this in mind.

    The whole evolution of human female sexual receptivity all through the month and not just during ovulation, and of the other human pair bond mechanisms, was designed to entice males into sticking around and helping provide for their offspring. That evolution was based on an ongoing exchange, not the female demanding that the group bludgeon the male into continuing to provide no matter what the female did or didn’t do. Further marriage was based on the same principals until feminism came along. Women who simply left marriages never traditionally got required large portions of their husbands accumulated wealth or continuing richly providing ongoing support for her and their children. Indeed she’d often or usually have to leave the children behind in civilization level societies. It’s only when he wished to leave the marriage (and by that I don’t mean merely be unfaithful, but to infact remarry), that traditionally in the West or much of any other society that the man had ongoing support obligations, or property splitting settlements, particularly out of his own property rather than what she may have brought in. (Usually what she brought in would stay with him too, if she wanted to leave the marriage.)

    Marriage has become an entirely one way obligation now, obligating men only — so far as what’s in any way enforced, even in most quarters culturally enforced now.

    Like


  165. on December 3, 2009 at 3:44 pm Doyourownresearch

    What’s wrong with this porker chick Mandy XL? Does she hate men?

    Ooh that’s right you are acting like a Princess again. Too many of these Princess girls want to act like a Saudi Prince. Now you know why Saudi men have a great life, the same life these entitled widdle girls get.

    Fred, good example. I’m sure MandyXL would take care of some other woman’s baby knowing what her husband did to her. Then poor little old Mandy would have to give her husband 216 monthly payments of child support. Suck it up girl… woman up!

    Like


  166. on December 3, 2009 at 3:45 pm Cannon's Canon

    “Who will pay for these mostly wasteful tests? are you reaching for my purse? , or opening yours?”

    i think the stupak amendment freed up some money

    Like


  167. @anony:

    Thanks for pointing out the cost of paternity testing.

    “Prices can range from $400.00 to $2,000.00.”

    I think it’s funny how a website of conservatives and libertarians scream to high heaven for paternity testing yet vehemently oppose any form of “government welfare.”

    While cuckolding can cost a man far more $ than a paternity test, punishing the majority (of men and women) for the transgressions of a few isn’t right either.

    At the same time, justice does need to be served. It shouldn’t be far that a man has to pay for a child that isn’t his.

    I’m on the fence here.

    Like


  168. “And as to whether it’s worse [for a woman] to be raped or [a man to be] cuckolded – I cannot even begin to understand the trauma or ostracization of the first (which by the way happens to A LOT more than two percent the population)”

    Since when are female rape victims ostracized? If rape victims are ostracized, why are there so many false claims of rape? Tawanna Brawley and the Duke lacrosse hoaxer were made out to be heroes even after it was discovered they were racist liars.

    The one sliver of truth is that male rape victims are apparently ostracized in prison unless they fight back to the last ounce of strength. But the victims of prison rape are usually men so nobody cares.

    Like


  169. I’d like to look at this in financial terms only:

    If that man has to pay $1000 a month for 8 years, then he will be paying $12,000 a year to the mother, and $96,000 over 8 years. All for a child who is not his.

    If the man is paying $500 a month, then he is paying $48,000 over 8 years. All for a child who is not his.

    —————————————————————————

    Obfusciating interested parties like commenter Mandy want to turn this into an argument of rape vs. cuckoldery and focus on that dialectic only. But the money is the big deal, and the money is what makes men so angry about the whole set-up.

    Chris Cuckold (lets call him that) has already lost many years of his life to the family and non-paternal child. He has already spent a small fortune for their benefit, but the fuckhole ex-wife wants to be supported even beyond the divorce to pay for some other man’s child? Its amazing how selfish women really are.

    There is a true biological parent for this kid out there on this planet somewhere, and paternity should be correctly assigned to him, no matter what the consequences to him or “his” family. He shot the load, he pays the dough. Thats fair, and fair is fair.

    Chris Cuckold should be free to pursue his life anew. He has already suffered enough. In my mind Chris Cuckold should be able to sue the fuckhole whore for fraud for all the years she stole from him and the monies he has paid toward the kid who wasn’t his. Is the kid harmed in all of this? The kid is harmed by his fuckhole-slut-mother being a human being of poor character. If she had any decency or pride she wouldn’t even ask for child support from Chris Cuckhold, but would humbly apologize to him and start moving her things out of the house and notify a lawyer about the need to find the -real- father so he can be notified that he has a kid out there. But western women have been spoiled beyond belief and they no longer think this way.

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  170. @Doyourownresearch:

    Yay ad hominem!

    Like


  171. gratuitously controversial, ill-thought out posts are entertaining and all; can we get back to game please?

    Like


  172. The real biological father should be paying any child support.

    Whole argument in one simple sentence.

    Like


  173. I violated my own practice of using lame analogies to make a point.
    I understand your point about fraud vrs. open information. I think you likely understood my point too.: women don’t devalue the experience of raising a child with DNA discordance, and hence, have difficulty understanding that in men. But, “fraud” vrs. “open information”; yes, we get it.

    Yes, but it is apples and oranges.

    Men have no sex-based aversion to adoption, which is the analogy to the stork scenario. They sign up for adoption regularly. I doubt men and women differ that much in their uptake of adoption.

    What I see, though, is that women do not, or perhaps cannot, empathize with being a cucked man because the equivalent cannot physically happen to them. If a man could, by virtue of having sex with another woman, implant his wife with her egg and his sperm unbeknownst to her, that would be more like the female experience of what it is to be a male cuck. Granted, men do not get pregnant, but the element of undisclosed fraud is there, as well as, in most states, the presumption of biological parenthood. I think women do not empathize that much with this issue on a visceral level not because of adoption sympathy, but because there is no female equivalent of this.

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  174. You can bet your ass some women defintely voted in that poll.

    Like


  175. z–

    The real biological father should be paying any child support.

    Nope, he shouldn’t have to either unless he agreed in writing to do so because he wanted the kid.

    The whoring wife should be stuck. And yes her bastard offspring too. Sins of the mother. Would tend to keep this sort of activity down.

    Unless the whoring wife can get some man to willing trade support for her spousal services and companionship.

    As it is under feminist laws the rates of female adultery have risen enormously. They’re probably higher than that among men now for under 40s. Remember women lie about numbers of partners and about adultery hugely more than men do. Lie detector experiments have shown this. Women’s claimed number of parts goes up by a factor of about 2 when they believe they are hooked up to a lie detector. And that’s when in both cases it’s to a stranger experiment who has promised confidentiality. When talking to bf’s or other girls, girls probably lie by at least a factor of 3, if their numbers are at all high.

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  176. @nova,

    I think women do not empathize that much with this issue on a visceral level not because of adoption sympathy, but because there is no female equivalent of this.

    agree. and attempts to analogize only lead to insult and frustration.

    Like


  177. I keep a’ sayin’ (and no one keeps a’ listenin’) that the meme “cuckolding is the equivalent of rape” is fatally flawed. It just provokes a bunch of nitpicking nonsense (just like in the this thread!)

    I also wonder when and how ‘cuckolding’ changed meanings from ‘being cheated on by one’s wife’ to ‘having another man’s offspring passed off as one’s own by one’s wife’. But I’ll let that pass for the time being.

    Anyway, _any_ woman who for _any_ reason knowingly passes off another man’s child as that of her partner (husband or not) has done a totally EVIL thing. Period. Let the apologists try to justify the unjustifiable instead of giving them a semantic game to distract people with.

    Even if the man can maintain a relationship with the child, both the man and the _child_ should emotionally turn against the woman who has done this evil, vile thing. No violence, no retribution. Shunning. Refusing to admit she exists. A child in such a position who refuses to renounce their mother is a moral coward.

    Women are social in nature in a way that men aren’t. The social death of rejection would be far more punishing to women than anything the law can dish out (up to and including capital punishment). The thought of being shunned and publicly shamed with no possible social redemption is far more terrifying to women than mere violence or penury.

    Like


  178. @anony, nova:

    Agreed.

    I’m not anti-man here. That’s not the point I’m trying to make. At all.

    I guess it is different for women, because anything that comes out of our wombs (unless a woman offers to be a surrogate) is ours.

    Although I wonder how men would deal with other situations in which the child is not theirs.

    There was a case of a family in the netherlands that went to a fertility clinic and chose in vitro fertilization. The woman had twins. One of the twins wasn’t her husband’s, due to the clinic not sterilizing the tools properly and using another man’s sperm on one of her eggs.

    So basically, one child was his, one wasn’t. And it was obvious because the child that wasn’t was black, and the whole family was white.

    He still chose to help raise it, but I wonder how men would handle something like that. I know I’d be really upset, as a woman.

    Like


  179. novaseeker–

    I think women do not empathize that much with this issue on a visceral level not because of adoption sympathy, but because there is no female equivalent of this.

    A lot depends as well on how much an individual beliefs / is aware of how much DNA matters.

    Also women want male resources to help with their children, at a visceral level, and are hardly above being unfair to men to get them, at a visceral level. They know that usually the man they married or will marry will have more resources than the bad boy they might step out with during their marriage.

    It’s women who can’t conceive of cheating on their husbands who are most able to see men’s point of view on this, by and large. Feminist “maybe I’ll cheat just like men do” types have the most resistance.

    Finally while both sexes are highly influenced by subtext entertainment media propaganda, I think women generally are even more than men, and less likely to rebel against it. Men are endless praised these days for in various ways being willing to father and support another man’s child – whether that be that of a previously single mother, a divorcee, or even after his wife is raped and she decides to keep the child. Or yes even in cuckolded situations, which are generally shown as being at the premarital but going together or living together stage. Yeah I saw a B movie with that in it within the last year or so.)

    Men have no sex-based aversion to adoption, which is the analogy to the stork scenario. They sign up for adoption regularly. I doubt men and women differ that much in their uptake of adoption.

    I really doubt that’s strictly true. No absolute gender based aversion, no. But i think men tend to be much less eager to adopt. Men are notably less eager to have children in the first place usually, unless they’re very rich but even then often enough, and adoption cuts out a lot of the reason for doing it, at least amongst those aware of the importance of DNA.

    The partial exception may be in the case of male infertility. In that situation 1) he very may well fear losing his wife if he doesn’t agree to adopt, and finding it hard to find another one, if he’s honest about his sterility; and 2) adoption allows him half the parental role anyway, if he really wants kids. These are of course more beta type responses.

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  180. Mandy–

    He still chose to help raise it, but I wonder how men would handle something like that. I know I’d be really upset, as a woman.

    I’d want to give the obviously not my child up for adoption. More than want to. I might divorce well her if she wouldn’t.

    And of course he chose to help raise it in the PC Netherlands, as here among the SWPL’s. That’s the social pressure, and propaganda big time. Besides DNA doesn’t matter. Just ask PC. It will tell you.

    Like


  181. And then Solomon said, let those who chose cuckoldry be butt-raped, and those who chose butt rape be cuckolded.

    And those who had chose cuckoldry sighed in relief, and bent over, and scratched their holes.

    But those that chose butt rape rose up in disgust and said, no, no, kill us instead, for we only chose butt rape so your Lord would know our disgust for cuckoldry. We would not submit willingly to either but rather die.

    At that Solomon said, “Now I see who the real husbands and fathers are. Let the willing cuckolds be slaughtered, their wives and daughters to be given as second and third and fourth wives to the others.”

    Like


  182. DNA does matter, Doug. It only doesn’t matter if you have a Y chromosome, because that violates the absolute rights of the reproductive cartel of the XXs.

    Like


  183. “I’d want to give the obviously not my child up for adoption. More than want to. I might divorce well her if she wouldn’t.”

    Not necessarily a wise longterm choice. The wife in this case was in no way at fault, and even if she could be convinced to give the child up for adoption, the obviously your child will find out about it at some point in the future and quite possible hate your guts for depriving him of a brother and might write you out of his life.

    Being disowned by children isn’t generally as painful to men as it is to women, but is it something you really want to risk?

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  184. To me that isn’t cuckolding because there is no fraud.

    Like


  185. In other matters, here’s my entry for the Beta of the Month, Daniel Duane.

    http://tinyurl.com/ylh4c74

    Roissy, this article in the New York Times written by his wife, will turn your stomach.

    You couldn’t have feminized this dude more if you’d have dressed him up in a French Maid’s outfit and called him “Fifi”.

    Like


  186. cliff arroyo–

    the obviously your child will find out about it at some point in the future and quite possible hate your guts for depriving him of a brother and might write you out of his life.

    As for my kid hating me for this, hell no. I’d bring him up better and vastly more rejecting of PC than that. The black kid would only be his half brother, when/if he found out about it.

    Obviously it wouldn’t be my wife’s fault. Nor would it be mine. I didn’t sign up for that when we went to the clinic. We should sue the clinc. To at a minimum provide totally free second invitro fertilization providing our son with a real, wanted by both of us, full brother.

    Like


  187. “I’d bring him up better and vastly more rejecting of PC than that.”

    You might think that. Children, when really brought up correctly aren’t opinion xeroxes of their parents and he (or she) might really despise you for depriving them of even a half-sibling (not to mention the pain that you had caused the guiltless mother). Even if it wasn’t the child she was expecting, womens’ feelings for birthed offspring don’t turn off so easily.

    The best option in that case is to raise the non-genetic child (who is genetically related to the wife and other child who are, I repeat, without blame, sue the clinic and put to any money gained toward the childrens’ future (either education or investments they can use when they reach adulthood).

    Like


  188. Novaseeker said “What I see, though, is that women do not, or perhaps cannot, empathize with being a cucked man because the equivalent cannot physically happen to them.”

    This is similar to what I stated above – they don’t have the emotional revulsion to this scenario evolutionarily wired into them, so they can’t seem to grasp the emotion or trauma of men. Some women obviously understand that it would suck, but they can’t grasp that it might feel to the man something akin to them being raped. But, as i said, men seem fully able to grasp the trauma that women experience from bona fide rape (not to be confused with “I can’t believe I let him do that to me!” rape).

    Like


  189. novaseeker–

    To me that isn’t cuckolding because there is no fraud.

    Agreed it clearly isn’t cuckolding. No there hasn’t been fraud but there wasn’t agreement to an adoption or half adoption before the fact either.

    Could I love that black child without a scintilla of may dna or my ancestor’s dna in him if we kept him, as much as my own real child? No. Would that create huge tension on an ongoing basis with my wife and then the kid, esp. with her siding with him on the issue? Yes. The only way it could work is if I suppressed by true feelings totally, in a massively beta way. I think what one believes about DNA does factor in her too. If one thinks its of only trivial or superficial features importance, which is massively simply wrong but what most Americans are taught to believe and more or less do (esp. if they’re highly educated), it would be less hard.

    And yes that fact that his not being mine would be so in my face all the time due to his skin and facial features and hair etc., would add to the difficulty. But it would be there in any event.

    Like


  190. Fascinating how a group that uses biology to excuse their behavior towards women (spread the seed!), turn downright vicious about the other side of the coin, especially seeing as women are equally biologically conditioned towards cuckoldery.

    Like


  191. So tell me Roissy, did you get a chubby while writing out that rape scene?

    Like


  192. cliff arroyo–

    Even if it wasn’t the child she was expecting, womens’ feelings for birthed offspring don’t turn off so easily.

    This is more hyped or culturally and belief induced than real IF the child is taken from the woman immediately after birth, before she’s cradled it and breast fed it for hours and days and weeks, not to mention months.

    My lack of equal love for the children and in fact deep resentment of the not my child’s existence would be even harder to turn off. because it would be in my face nearly all the time. Graphically so. Of course I’d really favor my real child.

    Like


  193. @Anon:

    “But, as i said, men seem fully able to grasp the trauma that women experience from bona fide rape (not to be confused with “I can’t believe I let him do that to me!” rape).”

    If men, as a whole, understand the trauma, then why do some of them do it anyway? Why are there still rapists in this world?

    @Aldonza:
    Good point.

    Because so many of the men on this blog have a tendency to claim that women are whores who secretly can’t wait to cuckhold their men, and that any women who disagree with them on this argument hate men and are cuckholds (or future cuckholds) for sure, then am I wrong in assuming that all men are potential rapists just waiting in every dark and scary corner to rape women?

    Like


  194. Cliff–

    As well we would have decided to have two an only two children, assuming we could have any. As I said I’d go back to the clinc and demand a free second IVF sibbling.

    Then the story for son and mother alike would be, “would you really trade Janet or Jim for a half sibling that has no relation to your father, and who I simply couldn’t love as much as my real biological children? Better he’s brought up by someone of his own race or at least mixed race parents in any event. Certainly the large majority of black professionals in the area think that.

    Like


  195. What’s the odds of you coming down with some disease, or AIDS, from Bubba? If you contracted something, even if it’s herpes, I’d say that’s worse. At least with being cuckolded, you could look to the past and enjoy the moments.

    My asshole is that important.

    Like


  196. BOTM candidate:

    http://www.lamebook.com/more-baby-stuff-belly-job

    I’m trying to suppress my gag reflex.

    Like


  197. Aldonza

    Fascinating how a group that uses biology to excuse their behavior towards women (spread the seed!), turn downright vicious about the other side of the coin, especially seeing as women are equally biologically conditioned towards cuckoldery.

    What men are biologically programmed to do, if they act without restraint, and if we are speaking about non meek and mild men here, is kill the faudulent child and very possibly the mother. No one here has advocated acting with such little restrain.

    Rates of violence against non biological children are much greater in fathers, but also in mothers too, and even in cases where the child is biologically hers, but not the husband’s.

    the “worst” you’ve heard here is wanting to cast them out without any further resources from the defauded husband, or maybe with some restitution of what he was faudulently induced to provide.

    Like


  198. “If men, as a whole, understand the trauma, then why do some of them do it anyway? Why are there still rapists in this world?”

    Most people understand the trauma of murder, but yet murderers exist. Go figure.

    Like


  199. on December 3, 2009 at 5:55 pm Stud Dynamite

    Jagal, how about this one

    http://www.lamebook.com/presh-out-the-box

    lamebook is even better that people of walmart.

    Like


  200. @Anon:

    “Most people understand the trauma of murder, but yet murderers exist. Go figure.”

    Fair enough. You didn’t qualify your original statement, so I challenged it.

    Like


  201. A great song to listen to while envisioning the unfolding of these events is the “28 Dyas Later” theme song.

    Like


  202. Like


  203. Could I love that black child without a scintilla of may dna or my ancestor’s dna in him if we kept him, as much as my own real child?

    Interesting. What, exactly, are your thoughts on adoption?

    That said, I understand your next thought — it would certainly create a schism if you were very much anti a child without your DNA and your wife was very much for the child simply because it had her DNA.

    However, I wonder if this would really be that much of an issue, unless you and your wife already had some serious “my side – your side” issues to begin with.

    How do you feel about a family where there are both biological children and adopted children (assuming the adopted children were adopted at birth)? Do you think parents love their biological children more, simply because of the link?

    Like


  204. […] 3Dec: Roissy did a poll of his readers; over 3/4 prefer rape to cuckoldry. SHARETHIS.addEntry({ title: "Do Men […]

    Like


  205. You forget one point. You can hunt down Bubba and kill him. Slowly. That would feel much better, and be more invigorating, than going to the gym. Girls would find you very sexy when you shared that with them.

    Like


  206. “Suppose the slightly older male tries to take it further, and, after she expresses her discomfort,”

    That’s part of the dilemma with women….this could be shit test? If he doesn’t take it further…he’s beta..

    Like


  207. LILGRL–

    @doug1– Could I love that black child without a scintilla of may dna or my ancestor’s dna in him if we kept him, as much as my own real child? [No.]

    Interesting. What, exactly, are your thoughts on adoption?

    It won’t surprise you to hear that my thoughts on adoption are a bit complicated.

    First of all it’s obviously a great social and individual good that it exists as an option. Second of all however, I really think it’s socially wrong for people to adopt when they could have their own kids. I think that later should be propagandized against rather than for. Why? The sorts of people who adopt and are approved for adopting are usually in at least the upper half of the SES and usually a good bit higher than that. They should reproduce their own DNA because it’s on average likely to be better for society in the next generation than what they will adopt (though certain war torn and other special circumstances sources of adoptive babies are different as are a small slice of e.g. elite college girls giving for adoption rather than aborting and we are talking AVERAGES here, not exceptions like you). The business of career women waiting too long to start families (for feminist media influenced reasons) to remain fertile when they want to do so, and so for that reason adopting and coercing their husbands into going along, viscerally infuriates me.

    As for myself, first of all I don’t have kids though I’ve certainly had many girls want me to with them, and I’m no spring chicken, so I’ve obviously not been hell bent to have them in the first place. Their not being my own genetic lineage kids tips me way over that line to no way. Certainly now. That’s me.

    At the same time I can imagine marrying a single or divorced mom with 1 kid, if she was incredible enough. Though only if she supplemented her kid with one of my own. I probably wouldn’t legally adopt that kid though, as further divorce insurance. However if I made the decision to marry her with kid, I’d try my utmost, which I could I’m quite sure manage partly out of love for my wife (if she was and stayed in fact lovable, with my proper application of game) and partly out of a sense of decency and fairness, to treat my adoptive (just not legally, if possible, for divorce reasons) kid as just as loved as my genetic kid.

    However, despite Hallmark media messages, from what I read that’s often very difficult, especially because the kid is often so resistant. I’d still try hard, very hard, if I made that decision. But I’d realize the challenges. Of course a lot would depend on what the kid was like to me during my courting of his/her mother.

    Bio families are better, it seems clear to me. Again on average. Some people can make very hard things work. I think the mother is the center of that workability. But everyone else matters too, including the kids who are heavily dna determined, not just mom and new dad parenting skills determined.

    Like


  208. on December 3, 2009 at 7:45 pm Doyourownresearch

    It all comes down to the LIE (fraud), which starts the ball rolling.

    When there is a disease there is always a symptom.

    When you take an aspirin… your body is not deficient of an aspirin, is it?
    Find the cause… then you won’t have to take the aspirin, right?

    What is the cause of cuckoldry? The woman spreading her thighs, right?

    When you Enforce(law) responsibility for certain behaviors, then the cuckoldry percentages will drop.

    Like


  209. Maury Povich–

    The most infuriating thing about your namesake’s lowest female common denominator appealing show is that he NEVER shames the women for anything at ALL. In fact he actively comforts and has his staff comfort the most extreme skanks, when they’re proved out. Yet he heavily shames the men all the time. It drips misandry, white knighting, and core feminism, in the lowest possible brow form.

    Like


  210. What men are biologically programmed to do, if they act without restraint, and if we are speaking about non meek and mild men here, is kill the faudulent child and very possibly the mother. No one here has advocated acting with such little restrain.

    No, but the thought was there in all the talk of abortion, Plan B and forced adoptions.

    My point was, cuckholding comes up regularly as the “worst possible thing” to happen to men, as evidenced by Roissy’s choice of hyperbole in his “big black male ass rape” scenario. He may well be right. But my point is, this cuckholding is one of those biological urges in all women. Studies have shown that women are more attracted to very masculine men other than their partner during their fertile periods.

    So.

    Men are attracted to fertile-looking women all the time.

    So.

    I think a good female analogy is a faithful woman whose husband of many years refuses to have children with her, but gets another woman pregnant. And even if they did have children, another woman’s child is an automatic drain on the resources available to her and her children. Further, it’s not outside the realm of possibilities for the man in this situation to leave his wife for the other woman and child, leaving her economically bereft.

    I certainly don’t advocate cuckholdery. It’s a horrific act of fraud and I’m against child support orders remaining in affect when it’s discovered. However, I do find it disingenuous to talk about the horrors of one biologically motivated act while cheering on (alpha) men who pursue another.

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  211. Rape would be worse if the cuckold had the option of getting away entirely, with completely favorable divorce terms, and be repaid for all costs. Unlike rape, cuckoldry isn’t intrinsically so horrible– it sucks, but it’s not life-wreckingly bad– but our society makes it bad by forcing the cuckold to stick around and support them.

    Mandatory paternity testing needs to be implemented. Now.

    Like


  212. cliffarroyo

    I keep a’ sayin’ (and no one keeps a’ listenin’) that the meme “cuckolding is the equivalent of rape” is fatally flawed.

    Yes, it is flawed because it does not go far enough. It is the psychological equivalent of rape plus the financial equivalent of felony grand theft.

    Even if the man can maintain a relationship with the child, both the man and the _child_ should emotionally turn against the woman who has done this evil, vile thing. No violence, no retribution. Shunning. Refusing to admit she exists. A child in such a position who refuses to renounce their mother is a moral coward.

    Women are social in nature in a way that men aren’t. The social death of rejection would be far more punishing to women than anything the law can dish out (up to and including capital punishment). The thought of being shunned and publicly shamed with no possible social redemption is far more terrifying to women than mere violence or penury.

    Great idea. Won’t work. In today’s society, even if the man shunned her, there would be plenty of other people (most notably, all her female friends) ready to console her and tell her she is the “real victim” and her husband should get over his negative feelings “for the good of the child”.

    In a world where people vomit forth their inner feelings on national TV, is there even any point in talking about social shaming as a penalty?

    Like


  213. But my point is, this cuckholding is one of those biological urges in all women. Studies have shown that women are more attracted to very masculine men other than their partner during their fertile periods.

    Rape is a biological strategy as well– an evil one, but not entirely ineffective. Rape is more likely to produce a pregnancy than regular sex.

    Like


  214. cuckoldry is to the male what desertion is to the female.

    rape? i guess. only if it leads to desertion.

    male rape? what the fuck? not even close to an analogy. darwin is chucking.

    “the moral animal” robert wright

    also, it takes longer before AIDS is ruled out, the body has to make the antibody. but your point is noted.

    time passes.

    Like


  215. Tarl wrote:

    “Great idea. Won’t work. In today’s society, even if the man shunned her, there would be plenty of other people (most notably, all her female friends) ready to console her and tell her she is the “real victim” and her husband should get over his negative feelings “for the good of the child”.”

    Perhaps but then, when she leaves, all her girlfriends will gossip behind her back talking about what a whore she is. Women can be that two faced.

    Like


  216. @TG:

    “That’s part of the dilemma with women….this could be shit test? If he doesn’t take it further…he’s beta..”

    A “no” is a shit test?

    :/

    Like


  217. on December 3, 2009 at 10:18 pm Wendy Schwartz

    Mandy, don’t worry dana is one of those women who really DOESN’T think that rape occurs because she has a hard enough time getting laid as it is. I doubt she gets leered at, approached, harassed, and groped passing by men in random places like most normal women do.

    She’s probably one of those awful old ladies that goes to “male review” clubs (ie: fat-housewife-fest) and loses her mind the moment a sweaty dude with bad 80’s hair looks in her general direction while dancing (and writes about how he kept “trying to catch her eye” in her journal that night.)

    Like


  218. I chose cuckoldry over butt rape because I’ve got hemorrhoids. That would hurt big time.

    Like


  219. yes mandy, “no” can be a shit test–shouldn’t you, like, HAVE sex sometime before you form such a strident opinion?

    Like


  220. Yeah, dana, well in my case, it WASN’T. You know, he didn’t get it after the hundredth time, or after I slapped his face, or after I screamed for help.

    Fuck off, bitch.

    I’m out.

    Peace, folks.

    Go back to the discussion.

    Like


  221. i thought you were a virgin now you were raped?

    Like


  222. The women all close ranks on this issue. Men, take the hint. All women are faithless, and they all want the option of having their beta chump husband supporting their alpha lover’s child. Reading Roissy’s blog should have taught you that by now.

    This discussion just emphasizes what I have said on multiple threads on this blog, just don’t get married. The law is just amazingly lopsided. Marriage gives the man not a single right, only obligations. It is a disgrace. And, marriage puts a big crimp in your social life. Your wife’s friends are boring. (Except the one she is screwing.)

    One of the better slogans from the Vietnam War era (protest slogan) was:

    What if they gave a war and nobody came?

    Men, you don’t have to get married. Let them throw all the weddings they want. Any man getting married in his prime is a jerk.

    Get your sperm frozen and your vas tied. Then, you have a long time to decide about marriage and children.

    You can enjoy your 20’s, 30’s, and 40’s enjoying all types of women, and every other activity that marriage and fatherhood prevents, which is most. When you are 50, you can have your young banked sperm from your twenties, all set to go if you want.

    You will have to defy your peers and your family, but who cares. You will never be cuckolded. Who would have thunk life could be so good?

    Like


  223. oh, you were “date raped” lol

    cocktease

    Like


  224. Perhaps because of her reluctance to face the extreme negative side of the human nature, Pupu finds discussions on rape and/or paternity testing disturbing and exceptionally boring.

    Like


  225. @dana:

    Yeah, I know.

    I kissed him. I’m a slut.

    I didn’t see the signs. You know, the signs. That he drank too much. That he was in a frat. That, you know, he’s a man, and it’s a man’s nature to RAPE.

    Yeah. I get it.

    He knew I was a Christian. And all that jazz. Talked about respecting it, and respecting religion, and blahblahblah.

    Even warned me to be careful with guys in college.

    Told me he had a sister my age.

    Talked to me about my classes.

    I had been alone with him before, he hadn’t done anything.

    For a month after it happened I sat over and over and tried to figure out where I went wrong, and poked at everything he said. I still have our conversations memorized. I sat and tried to figure out what I did wrong, over and over. And at the end, my mistake was in trusting a man. Guess I should stop trusting people.

    So go ahead, say what you want. Do it. It can’t be worse than anything I’ve said to myself for the past three months. I’m over it now. It’s in the past.

    Like


  226. Cless Alvin

    Rape would be worse if the cuckold had the option of getting away entirely, with completely favorable divorce terms, and be repaid for all costs. Unlike rape, cuckoldry isn’t intrinsically so horrible– it sucks, but it’s not life-wreckingly bad– but our society makes it bad by forcing the cuckold to stick around and support them.

    This would make it a lot less awful, but it doesn’t go the full way to equalization with the much lesser long term violation of heterosexual rape.

    Though you’re about right if he learned of the cuckold child right away. Or very soon.

    If it’s ten years in, she’s robbed him of so much chance to have his own real kids without inordinate sacrifice and for middle Americans, penury. Even without the ongoing child support costs which do make it vastly worse.

    He’s still spent umpteen dollars on not his kid. Which he doesn’t really have lifetime unlimited amounts of, even thought we like to think that way and even though the amount he will have in the future is always at least somewhat and sometimes very unknowable in the present.

    Like


  227. Hahaha awesome. Mandy is a consent-revocation tease with a huge chip on her shoulder who maintains and relives her victim status through contentious ideological redefinition. And she’s chosen the world’s worst venue for white-knight recruitment.

    RAPE is what Tarquin did to Lucrece. SURPRISE is what Randy did to Mandy.

    The law is too blunt an instrument to enforce the whore-sanctimony of LMR, and its perversion is a pillar of the cuntopia. Reinstillation of a woman’s fear to be alone with a strange man would be a good step towards undoing hypergamy.

    Who knows? Maybe a poisonous smack-n-run chick like Mandy deep down really wanted that alpha seed, but without the risk of being labeled a bad girl – hence the easy availability of opportunity, but the denial of intent via struggle and rape charges.

    Like


  228. Mandy XD

    That, you know, he’s a man, and it’s a man’s nature to RAPE.

    More feminists like you keep spouting that line and I’ll support or possibly co lead a movement to make raping of single rad feminists legal. Of course they have to look sexy enough from the perspective of the male in question to be worth the bother. Cause not it’s not primarily about violence. But it is about male domination.

    Vive male domination of girls. It’s fundamental.

    Like


  229. @Doug1:

    “He’s still spent umpteen dollars on not his kid. Which he doesn’t really have lifetime unlimited amounts of, even thought we like to think that way and even though the amount he will have in the future is always at least somewhat and sometimes very unknowable in the present.”

    That gave me an idea!

    A government law that requires a sort of reimbursement if he finds out that kid is not his.

    Like, reverse child support. She has to pay him for 10 years!

    I need to think about this more.

    Like


  230. on December 3, 2009 at 10:27 pm unlearning genius ...

    Damn! The devil or the deep sea?

    Like


  231. A 12 gauge would settle both accounts.

    Like


  232. One brief point before I disappear back into the ‘Aether of the Hellish Holidays’ :

    [1] I’m inclined to agree that NEW country and hard rock musicians are most definitely beta, but old school country, rock and blues virtuosos were hardcore Alphas of the original masculine cut.

    Unfortunately, fanbases tend to follow these trends. As a fan of country, rock and blues, I am disgusted to see the new crop of alt.-SWPL scene kids following the likes of Cadillac Sky, Fleetfoxes, Wolfmother, The Strokes, The White Stripes and The Black Keys for example… [Even though I myself may like some of their music.]

    I’m desperately hoping for a legitimate cultural resurgence of these quintessential American heritages sometimes soon, but I’m not going to hold my breath.

    The ‘Skynyrd Nation’ and ‘Burnside Babes’ keep me in good company for now.

    [Also, from my personal perspective: Fuck *most* rap and hip-hop. If you ask me what continues to internally degrade black people and disseminate negative perspectives and perceptions about black people worldwide, I’d point to those Modern Minstrel Shows.]

    Like


  233. @Carcer:

    “Mandy is a consent-revocation tease with a huge chip on her shoulder who maintains and relives her victim status through contentious ideological redefinition.”

    1) I’m not a victim. Don’t you dare call me that.
    2) ideological redefinition? wtf.
    3) consent-revocation? I never consented. Therefore there was no consent to revoke.

    “Reinstillation of a woman’s fear to be alone with a strange man would be a good step towards undoing hypergamy.”

    He’d be a strange man, but I knew him about as well as i knew everybody else in college. I trusted those people to be my friends, they trusted me to be theirs, he was one of them. He was a senior selected to guide freshman through their first weeks of college. GREAT I KNOW.

    “Maybe a poisonous smack-n-run chick like Mandy deep down really wanted that alpha seed,”

    Never.

    “but without the risk of being labeled a bad girl – hence the easy availability of opportunity, but the denial of intent via struggle and rape charges.”
    “She wanted it even though she didn’t and said no and fought him off!”

    That made…so much sense. Thank you for telling me my true intentions. Made things so much clearer.

    @Doug1:

    “More feminists like you keep spouting that line and I’ll support or possibly co lead a movement to make raping of single rad feminists legal. Of course they have to look sexy enough from the perspective of the male in question to be worth the bother. Cause not it’s not primarily about violence. But it is about male domination.

    Vive male domination of girls. It’s fundamental.”

    1) I was being sarcastic.
    2) That’s ridiculous. I’m fine now, but there’s no way in heck anyone else should have to go through that.
    3) I’m not a feminist.

    Like


  234. Roissy, if she tops herself you could be in a lot trouble dude, moderate where moderation is due.

    “Reasonably foreseeable” is a cunt of a word.

    Don’t deny the world your genius.

    Like


  235. Oh, and Doug1, I know you were trying to be a jerk and make your point in saying that, I’m hoping you weren’t entirely serious, but if you were, I’m going to stop jokingly calling you creepy and actually mean it next time. >.>’

    Like


  236. Ok, I get it, I’m leaving for real now.

    Like


  237. I can think of two ways to answer Mandy’s shivering query, be all men rapey?

    1. Are all women liars?
    2. Only the ones you’re attracted to.

    Like


  238. on December 3, 2009 at 10:39 pm unlearning genius ...

    But then this comparison is not good. The question on robin’s blog was “does it hurt equally for a man to be cuckolded as it does for a woman to be raped” .. I am sure it should. Both are huge losses in an evolutionary sense and should hurt equally.

    In the EEA, a raped woman had severe consequences to her ability to produce an offspring that would do well ..(which required good genes, good family societal standing etc) .. Women from agriculturist societies should have evolved a meta-instinct (only a meta instinct because the underlying strong programming can still be exploited) to curb their reproductive instincts. Now consider cuckolding, it is more likely that a cuckolded guy also gets some biological kids of his own in the process ..so his own kids grow with the other one’s .. His resources are diverted away ..

    In the modern world, both heterosexual rape and cuckoldry must be evaluated on the same footing… homosexual rape is more like one woman exchanging her babies with another woman .. but for a man, the shame factor and the added risk of a HIV infection .. are to be considered.

    Like


  239. mandy

    you got fucked–to quote bob dylan “you will not die, it is not poison”

    almost every woman on earth has had sex that was less than consensual

    wait til you get your first pump and dump

    some gorgeous guy way out of your league will make you feel like a queen for a night, bang your brains out, give you the best orgasms ever over and over, leave you on cloud nine with a promise to call you on teusday after work. you’ll be in a daze the next day, fantasizing, reliving every detail waiting, waiting, waiting for that phone to ring. all day tuesday you’ll be a nervous wreck…will he call?? you’ll make up an imaginary time he’ll call you–it will pass, then tuesday will pass, then wednesday, as your oxytocin high wears off you’ll get depressed, beat yourself up. he may ignore you if he sees you again, or be with another girl–he may do that twice then try to bang you again the 3rd time…fun! id rather get date raped 4 times than EVER go through that again

    enjoy your 20s!

    Like


  240. on December 3, 2009 at 10:45 pm Cannon's Canon

    was it Arpagus? he’s been looking to claim reparations for sexual irrelevance for quite awhile now

    Like


  241. Little oro-phan Mandy carefully brooded over her alpha insemination for 3 months, but no preggo – better batter next swing, kiddo.

    Honestly, fucking the RA’s and orientation tour guides? Can you be any more of a predictable moist social robot? Might as well tattoo “Gene will” and a DNA bar code on your ass.

    “My mistake was that I trusted a man,” and “I trusted the people around me” are VICTIM plays, you dumb bitch. “I was a fresh naive Christian cocktease who got what her body asked for” would be TAKING RESPONSIBILITY. Something you’ll never do, because Lord Biomechanics forbids you.

    Let’s count the number of times you “leave.”

    Like


  242. on December 3, 2009 at 10:53 pm Cannon's Canon

    “I still have our conversations memorized.”

    seriously, post a Lay Report

    sounds like son had some tight material

    Like


  243. Lr

    i absolutely believe rape occurs

    i dont believe its rape when you are making out with a guy in his room and he decides to fuck you–i think going alone to a man’s room is consent, period.

    as for all your other stuff–have you ever even met an educated east coast jew or have you only been around low rent white people your whole life? all of your references to what you think i must be like (like your weird high and tight comment a while back) merely tip the hand of your own social class, i have never even met people like the types you describe to be able to describe them.

    Like


  244. That’s a rigged comparison and you know it. Have you ever felt that you were seconds away from being brutally murdered?

    Like


  245. The poll is faulty. The poll should be whether I would rather be raped by a woman, or be cuckolded by one.

    I’d much rather be raped by a woman though.

    Like


  246. Interesting the number of posters trying to deflect.

    Usually means the subject is near to what they know to be indefensible, but would rather nothing was done about it.

    Like who would have an incentive to change the subject, when the subject is cuckoldry?

    Like


  247. A great song to listen to while envisioning the unfolding of these events is the “28 Dyas Later” theme song.

    Great song.

    I know tons of people that hate the movie but at least offer the cold comfort of…interesting soundtrack afterward.

    yes mandy, “no” can be a shit test

    Too true. Last minute resistance. It’s a rare woman that is sleeping with a new guy for the first time who doesn’t at least offer a token, ‘I don’t think I can do this’, on the weak end of the spectrum.

    No may in fact mean no; but more often than not it means ‘I want you to try harder’. Just like the article linked here about men ploughing past ‘I have a boyfriend’ because practically every single woman says something similar; practically ever single woman having sex with a guy for the first time will offer LMR. Any man that seriously takes no to mean no from every woman would never be able to seriously communicate with a woman in the first place; forget having a relationship or having sex.

    If it isn’t just token LMR but an actual rejection; that rejection really should have been offered before you were in his room, late at night, making out with him, while he is drunk.

    In that scenario, yeah, it is mostly the victims fault.

    Like


  248. He knew I was a Christian. And all that jazz. Talked about respecting it, and respecting religion, and blahblahblah.

    Even warned me to be careful with guys in college.

    Told me he had a sister my age.

    Talked to me about my classes.

    I had been alone with him before, he hadn’t done anything.

    Sounds like he was really into you. A real ‘nice guy’.

    I sat and tried to figure out what I did wrong, over and over.

    Did you ever figure it out? I’m sure a lot of people would chime in on that for you if you want.

    Like


  249. What a depressing comment section. Really? “No” is a shit test? Going into someone’s room and making out with them is consenting to sex? Yikes.

    Like


  250. @Canon’s Canon:

    “seriously, post a Lay Report

    sounds like son had some tight material.”

    It was actually really boring. All about different dorms, different things on campus, biology, med school, etc. Ordinary shit.

    @dana:

    “you got fucked–to quote bob dylan “you will not die, it is not poison”

    Sure felt like it.

    “almost every woman on earth has had sex that was less than consensual”

    Almost everyone on earth has been robbed at some point, that doesn’t make it any less right. “Having sex” implied that I had some part in it. I didn’t. Well, besides kissing him beforehand.

    “dont believe its rape when you are making out with a guy in his room and he decides to fuck you–i think going alone to a man’s room is consent, period.”

    I wouldn’t go alone into any man’s room randomly, however, I had been alone with him on several occasions and he never flirted, never tried to kiss me.

    And saying yes to sex (or implying it) is consent. If I say no, it means no. No means no. That’s the way it is.

    @dana:

    pump and dump? Wah wah, you consented to sex and he treated you like shit. That’s what you get for sleeping with men out of your league, that’s why you say no.

    You’re angry because you slutted around in your 20’s and got treated for shit like it. Die old hag.

    You men just hate me because I said no, and will always say no. You think I “deserve” some sort of punishment for kissing. Ok. Great.

    If it was something I secretly wanted, if it was something I secretly enjoyed, then I’d be romping around having more sex now. Where in reality, I find the thought of it nauseating. It’s disgusting. All of it. And, while I don’t hate men as people, and I’m not going to hate any of you for being blind and trying to paint me as everything you hate now, I’ve lost almost all desire to be romantically involved with men. The thought of getting married and eventually consenting to sex makes me sick.

    If you saw me getting back to my dorm that night, I don’t think you’d make the arguments you’d be making now. My best friend did. For some absurd reason, she was doing laundry. She saw the tears in my clothes, the cuts in my skin, the bruises all over me. She wanted to ask what was wrong but didn’t know how, and just told herself that I probably fell or maybe, for some reason, got in a fight with another girl. Who knows.

    Like


  251. @K(yle):

    “No may in fact mean no; but more often than not it means ‘I want you to try harder’.”

    If she keeps saying no, tries to back away from you, slaps you, and you have to literally force her down, that’s not a no?

    If she’s screaming to the people in the hallway for help, that’s a shit test?

    If, at that point, she’s not even remotely aroused, not even, what’s the word you people use so often, oh yes, wet, that’s a shit test?

    If afterwards you leave her, curled in a ball, sobbing and crying her eyes out, asking you,”Why did you do this to me?” that’s a shit test?

    Get cuckolded. Failure at life. And then I’ll say it’s your fault for being a piece of shit.

    Like


  252. @Carcer:

    “I was a fresh naive Christian cocktease who got what her body asked for” would be TAKING RESPONSIBILITY.”

    Yes, my body asked to do something against its own will. It asked to be beaten, it asked to be violated in one of the worst ways possible.

    Yes, it asked for all that. Clearly. Because everyone has good fun with that!

    And before all this, I TOTALLY sat there and thought,”Gee, I’m standing her alone with a man! I must totally want sex!”

    I better be careful if I walk into a room alone with my dad in it! I may be asking him for sex too!

    Or my uncle! Or my grandpa! Or my gay best friend! Or my TA! Or my professor! Or my 60 year old doctor at the doctor’s office! You never know! The possibilities are endless! Orgy!

    God you sicken me.

    Like


  253. on December 4, 2009 at 12:27 am Cannon's Canon

    Like


  254. MandyXD – Congratulations. You’ve personally typed 40% of the words appearing on this page.

    Like


  255. @Canon’sCanon:

    I looked at the lyrics. I have trouble understanding slang, but I’ll try to sum it up. So basically, the second verse describes consensual sex, and she cried rape? Is the point they’re trying to make that all “date rapes” are that situation?

    Like


  256. First, since getting raped is your defining life event, you may as well read Sperm Wars to understand exactly how and why your body was asking for it. Then you’ll be equipped to understand the discussion. Right now you’re incapable of rising above the level of a spluttering “wtf.”

    Second, you’ve done nothing but complain about how awful it was, how badly you were hurt, how innocent you were of fault, and how your life is now totally changed. All of which are VICTIM theses, yet you heatedly deny being a victim.

    There are victims, bystanders, and the complicit. Since you’ve confessed to participation, and denied victimhood, what are we left with?

    It’s particularly amusing that you threaten to tell Kyle it’s his fault when he gets cuckolded. Because it IS the beta’s fault for being cuckolded, just as it’s the cockteases fault for getting raped. And in your own words, they’re both pieces of shit.

    Keep accidentally telling the truth!

    Like


  257. on December 4, 2009 at 1:10 am Cannon's Canon

    “running mad Game as if the name was scott skiles” is slang for a short, balding white man (neil strauss) putting in his 10,000 hours to become an outlier

    good grief, that song is older than you. i feel like a dirty, lecherous old man

    i’ll try something more contemporary from this catalogue

    Like


  258. on December 4, 2009 at 1:10 am Cannon's Canon

    Like


  259. How you can tell the whore is already lying:
    “Getting back that night… the bruises all over me”
    Bruises don’t show up that fast.
    Removing the impossible, we arrive at the truth: The whore. She lies.

    Like


  260. He’d be a strange man, but I knew him about as well as i knew everybody else in college. I trusted those people to be my friends, they trusted me to be theirs, he was one of them. He was a senior selected to guide freshman through their first weeks of college. GREAT I KNOW.

    Social status.

    For a month after it happened I sat over and over and tried to figure out where I went wrong, and poked at everything he said. I still have our conversations memorized. I sat and tried to figure out what I did wrong, over and over. And at the end, my mistake was in trusting a man. Guess I should stop trusting people.

    I appreciate the broad brush.

    Yeah, dana, well in my case, it WASN’T. You know, he didn’t get it after the hundredth time, or after I slapped his face, or after I screamed for help.

    After you went to his room and kissed him.

    So apparently the man you had the hots for was a violent, raping sociopath. Or your story is full of *bleep*.

    How to avoid one of these damaging choices…..

    I sat and tried to figure out what I did wrong, over and over. And at the end, my mistake was in trusting a man. Guess I should stop trusting people.

    I know! You can claim ALL MEN are actually violent raping sociopaths, in order to avoid having to admit the amorality of your gina tingle!

    Scapegoat! Woot!

    Like


  261. @Carcer:

    I did not participate in sex.

    The incident was not my defining life event. That’s not what I want to define my life. I want what I DO to define my life, not what happens to me define my life. There is no one event that defines me at all, and if there were, that’d be the last one. I don’t want you to look at me and say,”Oh poor her.”

    Yeah, it happened, it sucked, but my life isn’t changed NOW because of it. I changed afterwards, a little. It’s been three months. I don’t look at my life as a before incident/after incident, like I did right afterwards. I don’t sit there and say,”Why me?” Shit happens. People move on.

    It came out because I was shocked to hear that things like “kissing” and “saying no” are greenlights to sex. I don’t look at men and think,”Sex.” I don’t imagine things like that. I think there was some controversy a few months ago when I said that on one of roissy’s posts. That basically, I find manparts disgusting. I don’t masturbate. I didn’t think that going in a man’s room consented to sex. Apparently it does. My bad. I haven’t done that again and don’t plan on doing it anytime in the future. Now you’re arguing that my body wanted something that it didn’t. If you were me, you’d know what it felt like. It fucking hurt like a bitch. You know why? Because I didn’t want it.

    My life isn’t totally changed. I had to take a detour to get some things done. That’s what happens when crap happens. Death in the family. Robbery. Whatever. Stuff happens. You move on. Or try to get justice for it.

    I’m pointing out the fallacies in what you were saying. How is kissing a man consenting to sex? How is that even being a cocktease? Seriously, when you kiss a woman, do you get so aroused that you have to force her down and do that to her against her own will? (supposing she is saying no and fighting you off)

    Or is her saying no, attempt at fighting you off, bleeding, screaming for help, aiming for your eyes, crying, all a shit test?

    In addition, you speak about me like I’m some 30 year old harlot who sleeps around, and wants sex from men. At the time, I was a 17 year old virgin, who basically never went to parties, only had one boyfriend and never went passed kissing with him (even *gasp* alone in his room with him! Shocking!) You’re already a grown man. You know how men think. You know of the world. Same thing goes to Dana. She’s a grown ma- I mean, woman. She knows how the world is. She has life experience.

    Cram both your life experiences into my 17 year old mind, and I would have learned not to trust people. I would have learned to not trust him, even though I trusted my other first year friends just as much (male and female). But you know what? I trusted people. Because I didn’t know what people were capable of. I didn’t know that someone would physically attack me. There is no way to know. What if I were to retell the story and say,”We hung out in his room and watched a movie,” for the ending. Would you say,”Stupid girl, you were totally cockteasing him!” Would you still say,”Stupid girl, he could have forced you!” No. Because hindsight is 20/20. It’s so easy to read an entire story, look at the ending, point out all the signs beforehand (In this case, you crafted 99% of them) and say,”Yeah it ttly makes sense!”

    Like


  262. @Ironic:

    “I know! You can claim ALL MEN are actually violent raping sociopaths, in order to avoid having to admit the amorality of your gina tingle!”

    That’s not what I was claiming. But if you say,”Those are just male natural instincts,” then that does make me wonder.

    And also, what gina tingle? I did NOT want sex. And I made that clear.

    Like


  263. My brother was raped at the age of 25 by a gay couple who drugged his beer during dinner. They had been friends for over two years prior to the incident. Today, 8 years later, my brother is even able to laugh about it with absolutely no feelings of personal inadequacy. Funnily enough, I have long postulated that being forced to support another man’s child is the male equivalent of female rape, and my brother readily agreed with me.

    BTW, the entire welfare state is one big, society-wide instance of cuckoldry.

    Like


  264. @Carcer:

    So you want to see pictures?

    Like


  265. Of the bruises I mean.

    *That was sarcasm, I’m not posting them.

    Like


  266. GX1080,

    Rape is traumatic for women becuase a)They can get pregnant and, most importantly b)They lose sexual status, they are less desired, their market value damages terribly.

    I haven’t been raped so perhaps I’m wrong, but I think that rape is WAY BEYOND a woman losing sexual status, being less desired, and decreased market value. I doubt that even factors in with a rape victim.

    It’s interesting how you described rape being traumatic based on how men are likely to respond to them when it comes to sex and desire, not by how it affects the woman herself (separate from men’s attraction to her).

    I think part of the reason men don’t seem to be as traumatised by rape is because society tells them that they are SUPPOSED to enjoy sex period.

    Kane,

    I’m not sure whether you’re just being funny or you’re that ignorant. Seriously, being gay shouldn’t have anything to do with someone’s level of traumatization. That’s like saying since women like having sex vaginally, if they’re vaginally raped then it wouldn’t be that big of a deal, which isn’t the case.

    Like


  267. @Renee:

    “I haven’t been raped so perhaps I’m wrong, but I think that rape is WAY BEYOND a woman losing sexual status, being less desired, and decreased market value. I doubt that even factors in with a rape victim. ”

    It varies from person to person, but immediately afterwards, I just didn’t feel safe. I double checked to make sure my doors were locked, my window was closed. At night I couldn’t sleep, and the nights I did pass out from exhaustion, I made sure I did so with the lights on. I also made sure I kept my closet doors closed.

    I developed other irrational fears. Like the fear of being naked. I was afraid of going naked into the shower stall on my floor. Luckily though, that one passed quickly. I laugh to myself about that one. It was ridiculous.

    Sometimes I’d wake up in the middle of the night panicking because I thought he was in my room. And one time, the power went out, I woke up with the lights off and started screaming. That was horrid. And stupid.

    Right now I sleep with the lights off. The irrational fears are gone. The nightmares are mostly gone. I don’t sit there and go,”Woe is me!” anymore. For a while, I felt like a totally different person. I felt like I was hijacked. Like a piece of me was missing. Now I feel like myself. Honestly. I know I sound crazy in this thread. It’s ok. I’m really not. I promise. >.>; I never really changed. I don’t think. I just went through a really shitty period. I mean, I couldn’t see any future for myself. Then I realized that I’m in control of my life. I always was, and I always will be. We all are. And bad stuff happens. But you can’t let it define you. You move on. And what you do from there, at that moment, is what matters. Living in the past will get you nowhere.

    Nowhere did sexual market value pop into my head. Now, it might for others. You never know. I mean, for a while I felt a pang of sadness, because I’ll never get to share that first moment with someone special…but, I think actual sex is different than what I experienced. So…who knows? Right now I’m just focused on what’s coming up next. And that’s not what’s coming up next.

    Like


  268. “you look real purty for a grown boy” as he uses his bulk to press you into the damp brick wall, his beefy bear paws yanking your jeans and boxers down to your ankles.”

    LMAO

    Like


  269. I keep expecting this to get old but the laughs don’t quit. Exhibit A of contentious ideological redefinition: “I was raped. I did not participate in sex.” I can think of ways this might happen, but none are survivable.
    If it’s the last event that would define you, it’s your defining event. Lol.
    Rape hurting doesn’t contradict your body wanting it. In fact it helps your chances of conception. Do your reading.
    You’ve refuted no fallacies. If you were capable of reading comprehension, you’d understand from context that consent is a grey continuum.
    More playing the victim. More monumental attempts to shift blame from yourself. Yawn.
    I actually do feel sorry for you, not because you had surprise sex, but because it’s a tragedy for any sentient being to be trapped within the soul of an idiot. Offering and then revoking pics? Missy needs another beatdown…

    In other news, Renee has the first cunterrific use of “ignorant” and goes on to conflate “should” with “is” on gender. Her subsequent abortion of an analogy cinches the feckless feminist trifecta.

    Like


  270. Mandy,

    It’s absolutely ridiculous how defensive and dense some of these posters are in regards to rape. You mention how you were raped and they assumed that you “cock-teased” the guy or “lead him on”. Not to mention they think that you’re criticising the entire male gender. You really did have a point when you compared the victimization of cuckoldry to the victimization of rape. They accuse you of “playing the victim” when you were just describing the repercussions and what it’s like for the victim, yet based on their definition of PTV, aren’t they doing the same thing?

    I’m not saying that cuckoldry isn’t a big deal because it is. However, in their effort in going against “RAEP”, they’re completely failing in understanding rape.

    Like


  271. @Carcer:

    “You’ve refuted no fallacies. If you were capable of reading comprehension, you’d understand from context that consent is a grey continuum.”

    Yes, the word “no” is a continuum. It’s so hard to understand. Two letters long. I’m so confounded. Tell me, your comprehension skills must be FANTASTIC if you can’t understand two letter words. You’re going to have problems with this post. Some of the words have THREE letters.

    It’s okay, you can start with the word “to.” From there you can work up to “the.”

    Don’t worry, you’ll get it by next month, I promise!

    @Renee:
    This topic is pretty much dead. Don’t judge the roissysphere on this one topic. Don’t judge me on one event. I mean, you might anyway. Carcer will. He’s already created his own image of me in his head. But that’s his choice. Not mine. I can’t control people.

    You seem interesting. Have you read/posted here before? I’d post my email for you to contact me (if you want), but I don’t want to get spammed.

    Like


  272. Mandy! XD

    Pupu suggests you go to see a psychologist and talk these issues through.

    Like


  273. I’m not saying that cuckoldry isn’t a big deal because it is. However, in their effort in going against “RAEP”, they’re completely failing in understanding rape.

    Hmmm, that last part was kind of vague. What I meant was understanding the general fundamentals of what rape is. I know that the definition of rape is becoming muddled, but to jump to the conclusion that Mandy is somehow to blame? Come on! Even if she wasn’t that careful, that doesn’t negate what the rapist did. And I’m sure there were times in which she wished she did things differently.

    Rape hurting doesn’t contradict your body wanting it. In fact it helps your chances of conception.

    If that ain’t dickerrific, I don’t know what is. Carcer, you say do your reading. Was this statement of yours based on actual scholarly work? So if a woman is raped, she should be happy because, hey, your body actually wanted it and you may get a baby from it!

    Like


  274. Mandy,

    This topic is pretty much dead. Don’t judge the roissysphere on this one topic. Don’t judge me on one event. I mean, you might anyway. Carcer will. He’s already created his own image of me in his head. But that’s his choice. Not mine. I can’t control people.

    Yeah lol I don’t even know why I bothered, but some of the comments were absolutely idiotic and dare I say it….victim-blaming language. Stating and discussion percautions is one thing, but what I read on here was a whole other thing all together. Oh, and I’m the LAST person to judge anybody 😉

    You seem interesting. Have you read/posted here before? I’d post my email for you to contact me (if you want), but I don’t want to get spammed.

    You seem interesting too 😀 I can’t imagine what you went through and it’s awesome that you overcame what happened to you. I rarely post on here. In fact this is the most I posted on this blog. The few times I visit this board I mostly lurk around. I have a blog I started so you can contact me there 😉

    Like


  275. Who gives a damn? Both the rapist and the cuckolder should be executed.

    Like


  276. on December 4, 2009 at 2:29 am Cannon's Canon

    two of the many ways renee is full of shit:

    “I think that rape is WAY BEYOND a woman losing sexual status, being less desired, and decreased market value. I doubt that even factors in with a rape victim.”

    on the contrary, decreased market value is the primary agent on display tonight

    “I think part of the reason men don’t seem to be as traumatised by rape is because society tells them that they are SUPPOSED to enjoy sex period.”

    although the leftist elite is stuffing homosexuality down my throat**, i still do not crave a dick up my ass. and if i were to, say, jerk off to some internet porn, it would not be a product of social conditioning.

    a quick scan of your blog can be summarized in bullet points:
    – republicans/conservatives are bad
    – a ballad deriding the false modesty of fabulous women
    – i do not write here enough

    have you penned any haiku? perhaps a one-act play?

    **this statement is qualified as “no homo”

    Like


  277. Mandy! XD

    Pupu made the suggestion because she thinks the issue is so sensitive that you need someone both objective and sympathetic to talk it through with you. You are too young to be permanently scarred by this.

    Like


  278. @Renee: I respect the gravity of actual rape. Surprise sex is not rape. Blame is not zero sum.

    @Mandy: Your simplistic ideology escapes no one’s comprehension. Rather, you demonstrate your intellectual deficiency by the reply “wtf” in lieu of substantive rebuttal. How do you like Renee’s admission that you “weren’t that careful?”

    “If that ain’t dickerrific.”
    What an apt mouthful. Yes, vaginas do think rapist dicks are terrific. Citation above.

    Like


  279. on December 4, 2009 at 3:10 am Comment Ninja

    “Chris Cuckold (lets call him that) has already lost many years of his life to the family and non-paternal child. He has already spent a small fortune for their benefit, but the fuckhole ex-wife wants to be supported even beyond the divorce to pay for some other man’s child? Its amazing how selfish women really are.” – Z

    Epic truth win!

    What adds even further to the injustice is that men have zero reproductive rights. Even if Chris cuckold never wanted a child to begin with, it’s the woman who decides whether to keep the child, and consequently he’s powerless in that regard as well.

    Like


  280. on December 4, 2009 at 3:17 am Cannon's Canon

    hollywood’s leftist elite has answered the Cuckoldry vs. Butt Rape question for us through the new hit poison pill of a show that is Sons of Anarchy.

    the motorcycle gang’s mother figure, peggy bundy, is violently raped to start the season. the penalty is above-the-law execution at the hands of the protagonist (not saying i don’t comprehend the motivation).

    the biological imperative that amplifies the severity of cuckolding is ignored by both genders on this show. the gang leader, hellboy, is effectively raising the son of a deceased member. this son, “jax”, has paired with a new girlfriend who is raising the infant child of his estranged wife. this has never been mentioned as anything other than a natural order of responsibility.

    in context, the show is largely pro-immigration and has touched on the grave consequences of greedy, privatized health care over the course of a few episodes. predictably, the gang’s antagonists have been the Nords (white supremacists, season one), the White Nationalists (separatists, season two), and a cliffhanger feud with the Irish for next season, who will surely embody some other categorical white man sin en masse.

    wsj reports that the season finale was watched by 4.3 million households. the danger of this show is not simply its message, which is commonplace, but its vehicle as a show about “cool guys”. obviously, the “entourage” comparison looms. leftist agenda is marketed as a hip image to beta men, starting with white privilege and ending with rape as the cardinal sin.

    watching this show is like watching poison being dumped into a reservoir.

    Like


  281. If a girl was raped, it will on long term damage her way of enjoy sex or trust people, she will have a hard time with trusting and lot of these women, either turn out frigid or opposite, very promiscuous, and some gaymen, where abused sexually in childhood, i don’t know why that would make them turn into gay, but i now 2, maybe its a coincidence, but i don’t think so.
    the psychological impact of a rape, is really hard to brush off, and will render their approach to the other sex and relationships.

    Like


  282. Anyway, Mandy was treated badly. And the charming incompetence with which she’s mounted her defense mitigates her failures of chastity and self awareness.

    Were she within my circle, I’d see to it non-fatal physical repercussions resulted after an obfuscating delay, as it is already incumbent upon me to do in a similar case.

    Renee’s blog is a pot pourri afterbirth.

    Like


  283. on December 4, 2009 at 3:24 am Cannon's Canon

    this bitter, conservative rant, as well as my earlier hat tip to internet porn, toes the line of sexless MRA loser. i will now revert to aloof snark and youtube clips to validate my opinions.

    Like


  284. on December 4, 2009 at 3:27 am Cannon's Canon

    bik: “maybe its a coincidence, but i don’t think so.”

    are you saying that homosexuality is… contagious???

    Like


  285. @Carcer:

    “I’d see to it non-fatal physical repercussions resulted after an obfuscating delay”

    Wow, you justify assault. Now, if men like you would right “rapist” on their foreheads, women wouldn’t have to worry anymore, because we’d know who to avoid instead of avoiding everyone because, well, they might be like YOU.

    Thank you, and good night.

    Like


  286. How many times have you left now, Mandy? 3? 5?

    It’s more dramatic every time.

    I’ll have to do some deep soul searching after being accused of rape-tendencies by a girl who A. failed to see it coming and B. thinks all men are rapists.

    Still dishing the laughs after all these rounds. Real stamina. You had a good teacher.

    I liked the review of SoA, Canon, and crossed it off my list.

    Like


  287. Another reason not to marry (I vaguely remember roissy touching this subject once before):

    ‘One in five new brides puts on a stone and a half (21 pounds) in weight after just a year of marriage’

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1232699/One-new-brides-puts-stone-half-weight-just-year-marriage.html

    Like


  288. Penis-Faced Vagina.

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  289. Canon.
    First i didn’t understand what you where referring to, then realized what you where thinking i am saying, but of course not.
    I ment that to be abused renders the mentality of the person.
    That my tiny case study, could very well be coincidental i pointed out before. Would perhaps be interesting to do a study on this.

    Like


  290. Let’s not forget the husband finds out his wife who he wed, betrayed him, lied to him and pretty much treated him like a commodity she could manipulate for her own selfish actions.

    Let’s put that into perspective; 10 + years of trusting the love of your life, the women you choose to marry, down the swanny, when you find out for those years she had been lying to you. The women you fell in love with, turns out to be nothing like the women you actually knew.

    I would imagine the guy would reflect on the times the couple got intimate, the times he said to his wife “I love you”, the times he heard it back and each time knowing that his wife was lying to him, not only that at some stage in the relationship, in between the comfort, the love the romance, the dating, his wife rode another mans coc* and had her womb fill up with his sticky man juice. Then she comes back to the husband like her shi* don’t stick, manipulates him, lies to him and watches him raise another man’s son/daughter.

    And people think rape is worse, give me a fuc*ing break!

    Like


  291. It came out because I was shocked to hear that things like “kissing” and “saying no” are greenlights to sex. I don’t look at men and think,”Sex.”

    Spending time alone with a man in his bedroom, drinking with him, and kissing him are certainly indicators that you wanted to have sex.

    From the story you have told you did everything in your power to get him to escalate, and dude simply had bad Game.

    All that you have illuminated in this indicating that you didn’t want to have sex is that the guy didn’t give you the tingles, because he was bad at flirting. You did nothing to put the brakes on until it was too late. You even spent time alone with him on multiple occasions.

    The solution to this would be to not drunkenly kiss him in his room, probably in the middle of the night. That is what you did wrong. It’s also not just tactically incorrect, it is immoral.

    You weren’t attracted to him at all, in any way apparently, at all, and sex with a grown man as a grown woman was completely outside the realm of possibility under any circumstances with any man ever and that was made perfectly clear but you still wanted to shove your tongue down his throat? Is that correct?

    You were going to do your own little naive emotional and oral ‘pump and dump’, with a guy who probably thought you were really attracted to him because you lead him to believe so, and who probably really liked you back.

    Had you had the wherewithal to not lead this guy on and do everything but strip your clothes off and spread eagle on his bed while screaming ‘fuck me’ to invite him to do so you wouldn’t have been raped. Even if the guy is guilty, the extenuating circumstances are absolutely amazing.

    Assuming this bullshit story of yours isn’t made up; which it is. How can anyone even be this…I want to say naive…but really it is just abject stupidity. Here is a tip, if you don’t want to be ‘raped’ by men you spend alone with like your physician, since you brought it up, don’t make out with him in his office, then accept the offer to go back to his house for drinks. That will solve the problem of your physician trying to ‘rape’ you.

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  292. Whoever choose cock holed over rape are betas.

    If I ever got raped I would track that mofo, torture him slowly kill his family and friends then put his balls in a jar as a sign that I got my dignity back.

    If the child wasn’t mine… I would unleash hell. Greek god style I would eat the child. Then again I am not stupid enough to ever marry or suffer what betas must go through.

    Like


  293. on December 4, 2009 at 5:27 am Comment Ninja

    “Then again I am not stupid enough to ever marry or suffer what betas must go through.” – the King

    Most men think this.

    Like


  294. Mako, on a lesser scale that’s how I felt when my wonderful wife turned out to be a worthless skank. It was like the previous eight years of good times were immediately poisoned. Can you believe she ever meant all those declarations of love at the wedding altar in front of friends and family? Was any of it genuine?

    And this was without any cuckholding.

    Like I posted earlier, if a man finds out he’s been cuckolding he has the immediate moral right to kill the whore stone dead.

    Like


  295. on December 4, 2009 at 5:55 am msexceptiontotherule

    “Patrik
    Rape is about sex, not power… AS WELL AS very high quality alpha males (e.g. pick your Kennedy) that do not fear sanctions for their actions.”

    That’s why women should always exercise even greater care around men with money and power than they would (or should at least) around men in general – men with money and power have the resources to make “problems” disappear, and some even have the means to evade any criminal prosecution, at least for a fair length of time.

    I think that women should be able to walk around the streets totally naked and surrounded by men who, for all intents and purposes, are nearly sex-crazed from their being in a sex-less marriage – and said naked women shouldn’t have to fear being raped. However, I also know that it’s simply not practical for any woman including myself, to expect to be un-molested should I go out and wander the streets naked – at least until someone called the cops and said they had a crazy woman walking around naked on the street and to send out some officers to collect her (and the neighbor would probably suggest that they might want to bring a blanket to cover the crazy lady with) before things got out of hand with all of the sex-starved perverts milling around on the street.

    In all seriousness though, while women need to take responsibility for their safety, there are limits as to the level of safety a lone woman can expect from herself or have expected of her. This is how bad things often happen, and it’s foolish to think that one doesn’t need to prepare for such possibilities – look at how well that turned out for Natalee Holloway’s parents. The tendency to limit the concern to the urban legend (at least to the extent that young women have been led to believe that…) drink-spiking occurs. This happens, according to the media, at a rate so astronomical we’re being drugged right now and we’re not even in a bar. What would be more prudent, and I realize that we’re working with certain “handicaps” but for a minute we’ll pretend otherwise – would be to keep an eye on the female friends you’re out partying with and never leave the group when drinking or otherwise intoxicated; show up together and go home together. If they’re of legal age and dead set on getting smashed, it’s going to be pretty difficult to prevent a person, male or female, from getting drunk. The problem is that men usually get into fights when they’re hammered, and women will usually find themselves in situations that they would have known better and avoided if they weren’t completely incoherent and led away from the flock by someone who sensed a prime opportunity. This is why women are better off developing better friendships with other women who they can count on to watch their backs, an idea that seems to cause feminists to come completely unglued. I think it’s just because they have convinced themselves that they already *do* have such friendships, and can’t handle hearing things to the contrary.

    And to sum everything up, “Don’t put anything in your store front window that you’re not prepared to sell.”
    …It’s not my fault that society is biased nine ways to Sunday.

    Like


  296. @ msexceptiontotherule:

    //www.city-journal.org/2008/18_1_campus_rape.html

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  297. @ msexceptiontotherule:

    And this one is a very good analysis of that story:

    http://www.the-spearhead.com/2009/12/03/the-myth-of-date-rape-drink-spiking/

    Like


  298. I object to this entire post. IT IS DISGUSTING. All you men who preferred raped: you’re losers. With the cuckold, at least you can redeem yourself by grab a shotgun, blast the whore, the AMOG, and the little bastard. Then flee abroad.

    Like


  299. on December 4, 2009 at 8:52 am Cannon's Canon

    “at least you can redeem yourself by grab a shotgun, blast the whore, the AMOG, and the little bastard. Then flee abroad.”

    don’t forget to call your lawyer and tell him you killed paul allen with an axe in the face, along with 40 other people

    Like


  300. I voted for being cuckolded.

    Not that I would be happy about it and just smilingly accept it, obviously. I would do everything in my power to extricate myself from the situation – initiate divorce immediately, get DNA tests done, take all legal (and maybe a few illegal) steps necessary to avoid paying even one red cent of alimony or child support, even expatriate.

    But at least I wouldn’t have butt twinges everytime I heard someone use the expression, “Your ass is mine”.

    Like


  301. Cacer,

    Renee’s blog is a pot pourri afterbirth.

    I actually laughed at this lol 😛

    What an apt mouthful. Yes, vaginas do think rapist dicks are terrific. Citation above.

    No, citation as in scholarly or scientific citation proving your points, not something that you pulled out of your ass.

    Cannon’s Canon,

    on the contrary, decreased market value is the primary agent on display tonight

    And that’s supposed to mean anything?

    “I think part of the reason men don’t seem to be as traumatised by rape is because society tells them that they are SUPPOSED to enjoy sex period.”

    although the leftist elite is stuffing homosexuality down my throat**, i still do not crave a dick up my ass. and if i were to, say, jerk off to some internet porn, it would not be a product of social conditioning.

    Yeah you got me there lol. This mainly applies to the scenerio of men being raped by women, and how sometimes (and depending on the circumstances) it’s seen as a “positive” thing or “who cares”. How it’s believed to not be positive for a woman to rape a man because men just loooove sex.

    I’m so used to using the points above when talking about rape with men are the victims and women are the rapists, that I used it in this post as well. My bad.

    a quick scan of your blog can be summarized in bullet points:
    – republicans/conservatives are bad
    – a ballad deriding the false modesty of fabulous women
    – i do not write here enough

    have you penned any haiku? perhaps a one-act play?

    Hahaha nope. But yeah I really do need to update and your comment may be the kick that I needed to get started 😉

    Like


  302. Carcer,

    Oh and please explain….what is “surprise sex” lol? I don’t think it constitutes as “surprise sex” if the victim made it perfectly clear that she didn’t want to have sex.

    Yes there’s the whole issue of what lead to that situation and signals being presented in some cases. And I admit, that the definition of rape has become muddled and people just need to be more careful.

    Simply put, what happened to Mandy (based on what’s presented) was rape. Some things she should have done differently (she even admitted that) but it was still rape. In the end, he choose to rape. What’s the point in railing on her?
    ————————-

    Something I’ve been wondering about.

    Men always complain about how when it comes to the issue of rape, feminists always present the entire gender of potential rapists. But based on some of the comments here (like being alone with a guy even if you know him, kissing him, etc.), women shouldn’t be alone with a guy or kiss him because you may “lead him on” and be raped, as if he can’t help himself. If she should keep this in mind anytime she meets and dates a guy, isn’t this the same as seeing any man you meet as a potential rapist?

    I’m not saying a woman should lead a guy on for the heck of it or that she shouldn’t be careful. It’s just that when it comes to safety in regards to interacting with men you date, the lines seem to blur.

    I hope that made sense 😛

    Like


  303. And no I don’t see all men as potential rapists.

    Like


  304. *musing over morning coffee*

    If rape isn’t about power and only about sex, would an alpha ever need to rape?

    Like


  305. Krauser

    In a better age, he could have done.

    Seriously, the amount of raw fury a man must feel when he is confronted with that must be over-powering, even a raging omega must feel a testosterone shot in his loins to throttle the bitch.

    Like


  306. I think this is a great example of feminists shooting themselves in the foot and proving Roissy’s point. Feminists are the first to scream rape is the worst thing on the planet, and that’s true, for women. For men cuckoldry is far worse. I shall explain.

    If we accept the feminist understanding that men run politics, business, and are always keeping women down; then it follows that the only thing that women think they can hold over guys is their bodies, and rape shows that that can be taken from them. Is any of this counter to the reality we all have experienced? Men do run things and while feminists are trying to change that, they are having limited success. Thus the fact that rape is so offensive to women, it belies their inability to compete with men physically as well as socially.

    For men our public pride is MUCH more important than our personal pride. Making cuckoldry is worse for men. For the man, his entire status rests upon his public image, thus he can be raped and as long as no one knows, his more important social status is left intact. With cuckoldry you are publicly shamed and your status is forever destroyed. Thus cuckoldry is worse for men.

    The more women argue that rape is worse, the more they expose the truth, that men and women are different, and deny the pretty little lie that feminists like to tell themselves. Namely, men and women are the same. The fact that this argument is happening at all is proof of the opposite.

    Like


  307. on December 4, 2009 at 1:08 pm Wendy Schwartz

    Actually, every single comment here by the men about “their money” this and that is EXACTLY why children are awarded to women in the first place.

    Men cannot even handle sending a check at the end of the month for a kid they created without shrieking about it, let alone RAISING one, or CARING for one. You guys really do it to yourselves by showing how incapable of being useful in the family machine at ALL.

    At least men used to contribute a little sperm and some money…..now you guys can’t even handle THAT responsibility and want to cry about the paternity tests that you have a LEGAL RIGHT TO GET AND PAY FOR. If you don’t “want” to pay for a paternity test, then you deserve to pay all 18 years of support.

    I still don’t see why the obvious change to the law hasn’t been done. ANY man who is (proven) a child’s father and will not or cannot PAY the child support he owes should be required by law to have a Vasectomy.

    After all, you guys seem to think women should HAVE to have abortions for your sake so why shouldn’t you do the same? The only difference is that Vasectomies are (medically) no big deal and just an “office visit” that’s reversible while abortions…..well are surgery, costly, dangerous, and DEF not reversible.

    I think it’s a clear solution to deadbeats who say “well I don’t make enough money!!!!” and think that is a GOOD excuse. Sooooo if the custodial parent doesn’t have the luxury of “feeding the kid whenever they get money”……why should the payee?

    Like


  308. Good point, Timitz. There is no morally better or worse situation, absolutely.

    I’m always reminded of when creditors used to call me, saying “It is very important that you contact us”.

    Important to whom?

    Everything that is important is only important to a whom. Different whoms have different importances.

    There is not much use trying to convince women to see men’s point of view. We need tactical advantage over them, plain and simple. Such as not getting married, not having income that can be stolen by the state, being able to travel and leave the country, etc. It’s useless to explain morality to women. Have power over them, through choices, and let them know it, at all times.

    Like


  309. @Timitz,
    For men our public pride is MUCH more important than our personal pride. Making cuckoldry is worse for men. For the man, his entire status rests upon his public image, thus he can be raped and as long as no one knows, his more important social status is left intact. With cuckoldry you are publicly shamed and your status is forever destroyed. Thus cuckoldry is worse for men.

    succinctly stated.

    The more women argue that rape is worse, the more they expose the truth, that men and women are different, and deny the pretty little lie that feminists like to tell themselves. Namely, men and women are the same. The fact that this argument is happening at all is proof of the opposite.

    My time of enlightenment came when my son was 14 months old. His toddler boy brain played with toys so differently than his older sisters had played with the same toys. He verbally motorized toy trucks. His sisters invited him to play with Barbies; he’d use the Barbie doll as a weapon to bonk them on the head. Larry Summers talked about toddler girls placing one baby truck inside a mama truck to carry it around. May “social construct ” believers be blessed with a baby of each sex.

    Like


  310. Mandy, oh thank Goodness. I remember saying to you rape isn’t the end of a woman’s life when you said something like you’d probably kill yourself if it happened. I’m not so egotistical as to think that helped but I never dreamed you’d actually have to implement that. Thank God, you’re okay.

    I guess you didn’t prosecute?

    Who gives a damn? Both the rapist and the cuckolded should be executed.

    This comment wins.

    Like


  311. @K(yle):

    I didn’t drink with him.

    That’s all I’m going to say on that.

    The original purpose of us going into his room was to sit around and watch a movie. Like he had done with me before.

    And how could someone be that incredibly naive/stupid/trusting? 17. I was never let out of my house in high school, and I had been alone with my boyfriend back then and he never interpreted a kiss as a “greenlight to sex.”

    Like


  312. For men our public pride is MUCH more important than our personal pride.

    Nice insight, but if true, then it’s equally true for women.

    It’s just that different things would be a source of public shame for women than for men.

    Like


  313. My call is that exclamation-point Mandy is lying about rape

    she got herself cornered and played the victim hard. as a woman, I bet that she is sincerely feeling a rape she didn´t suffer, because it is the way she rationalyzes the beating she suffered

    Like


  314. also, guys here are underestimating hugely the trauma women suffer with rape.

    Like


  315. @Mandy! XD: Look bitch, we just don’t like to get cuckolded OK? Just like you don’t like to get raped. The poll says it all, really. Fuck you and your vapid cunt.

    Like


  316. @gig:

    “she got herself cornered and played the victim hard.”

    I’m not playing the victim. The last thing I want is pity or sympathy from people, because it makes me feel like I need it, like I’m a speck of dirt. No one wants to be a speck of dirt. No one wants to feel that way.

    And I got myself cornered? By whom? An anonymous woman on the internet named “Dana,” who hates her father’s sperm for giving her a second X chromosome instead of the Y chromosome she so deserves? An idiot troll who’s probably lurker on a different e-mail account?

    Like


  317. @Mandy! XD:

    “No one wants to be a speck of dirt. No one wants to feel that way.”

    Ah, but you are a just a worthless speck of insignificant dirt. I want you to remember that from now on.

    Like


  318. I thought I was a muticellular organism. 😦

    Like


  319. no mandy

    I once, in a dinner in a friend´s house, saw a colombian (girl) friend of his lying in the table that her father had been killed by the FARC. My friend, and his family, are hard leftists, Chavez supporters and so on

    There was death silence in the table, where people were defending the social objectives of the FARC, when the girl said that she was an orphan

    she was mentally screwed, her father died – drunk – in a car accident, and she was in the car, though she was a kid then. So she was a really thraumatyzed girl. Probably in a conservative table she would say that the AUC killed her father.

    This was an epiphany moment, when the reality of the female gender showed itself for everyone to see (actually it was only several weeks later that my stunned friend told me in class about the real story). I could also tell dozens of smaller cases, it is a common pattern of girls to create or augment problems in order to create empathy.

    Like


  320. on December 4, 2009 at 3:23 pm Seeking Alpha

    @ gig

    How does your friend and his family view your profession?

    Like


  321. on December 4, 2009 at 3:36 pm Abelard Lindsey

    I voted for cuckolding simply because the first scenario is so utterly unpleasant that it does not bear thinking about. Both scenarios suck real hard. There is an upside to the second scenario. I certainly would not feel any guilt about cheating on the spouse. Indeed, I would consider the second as an engraved license to cheat.

    Like


  322. I’m not playing the victim. The last thing I want is pity or sympathy from people, because it makes me feel like I need it, like I’m a speck of dirt. No one wants to be a speck of dirt. No one wants to feel that way.

    Then why share at all?

    I could also tell dozens of smaller cases, it is a common pattern of girls to create or augment problems in order to create empathy.

    Too true.

    Like


  323. on December 4, 2009 at 3:40 pm Abelard Lindsey

    The best approach for eliminating the second is to make DNA testing of all newborns mandatory. If certain factions of the electorate balk such that this is not possible, then the preferred solution is a genetically-engineered designer virus that makes every sterile (a sterilization plague), then everyone must utilize stem cell based reproductive technology in order to have kids.

    Like


  324. Indeed, I would consider the second as an engraved license to cheat.

    Next Exit Divorceville.

    It’s just outside Alimony City.

    Enjoy your trip.

    Like


  325. MandyXD–

    Oh, and Doug1, I know you were trying to be a jerk and make your point in saying that, I’m hoping you weren’t entirely serious

    Of course I wasn’t entirely serious about legalizing rape of rad feminists. But then they are serious many of them in calling all men rapists, and lust after luscious looking and dressed girls “looking rape”, or in terming all prostitution rape. I do kinda like the idea of rad feminists worrying their paranoid and extremist heads about it though.

    Like


  326. “gig
    also, guys here are underestimating hugely the trauma women suffer with rape.”

    yes, from REAL rape–stranger rape in an alley–a traumatic violent crime no more or less than a man being jumped and beated

    what women suffer from in date rape is SELF recrimination from the knowledge THEY were stupid and brought it on themselves or from their disillusionment that the “nice” boy they met in class was just a big smelly man with a hard on too, just like all the other “icky” men that “ogle and leer” at them

    women are traumatised when their fantasy worlds are collapsed

    Like


  327. @gig:

    “I could also tell dozens of smaller cases, it is a common pattern of girls to create or augment problems in order to create empathy.”

    I don’t create problems. That girl was fucked up, but just because one girl was fucked up, doesn’t mean everyone else is fucked in the head. I like living a life without problems, and for the most part, have, aside from dealing with some familial health issues, and, well, THIS. I have lived a life without problems, and when you think about it, I’m pretty damn lucky to be living in America, and not in another country in, say, the Middle East.

    There are people who will lie to you about their problems. I know one girl who did to me, over and over, and while I wanted to believe her, I had a hard time doing so. I don’t want to be any of those people, because why the fuck would you invent problems in your mind? It just makes you feel worse. Personally, I’m a prideful person (it’s probably the sin I indulge in the most, unfortunately), and I like it when people compliment me, and admire me for my schoolwork and accomplishments. Praise makes me feel better. Sympathy makes me feel worse.

    @K(yle):
    “Then why share at all?”

    I think I’ve stated before, the things you people were saying were irritating me. A couple months ago, I was in a really dark, dark place. I guess I should’ve taken “two sick days off.” I don’t want to talk about it anymore. I don’t want to get sympathy, but dammit, I was trying to make a point. Most women know their attackers. It’s not always some random guy who jumps out of a dark alley and attacks them. It’s easier when the attacker knows you because your guard is down. You trust them to stop when you say stop. You can hang out with them like friends and not think that they’re looking at you in a dirty way.

    I find this whole thing somewhat stupid.

    1) I’m a cocktease because I kiss a guy in private.
    2) If I were to kiss him in public, where he couldn’t have attacked me, I’d be seen as a slut.

    Should I just wait until my wedding day to kiss a man, then? Or should I just start making out with girls instead, and became a lesbian?

    Just wondering.

    And honestly, if you were people I knew in RL, if this weren’t an anonymous message board, well then, I wouldn’t have said anything. But since you don’t know me, well then, while I still regret saying anything to begin with, it’s not so bad because you don’t know me.

    Like


  328. @dana:

    “women are traumatised when their fantasy worlds are collapsed”

    Women are traumatized when they realize that they’re ability to decide who is trustworthy and who is not is flawed.

    Women are traumatized when they realize that even a friend, or that “nice” boy in class, can really, really, hurt you and fuck you up.

    Dana, say you invite your best friend over to your house. You’ve known her for three years, she’d been over before, and never caused any trouble. You trust her. One day, you leave her alone for a minute to get the mail and get back. After she leaves, you discover that when you left for a minute, she took one of your most valued possessions. How would you feel? Yes, maybe you shouldn’t have trusted her. She turned out to be a thief. But how could you have thought that of her beforehand?

    Like


  329. MandyXD–

    Reading up a bit before in the comments where I made the remark you quoted, I see before that what I’d skipped over I guess in coming back in and skimming some comments fairly late last night. You intimate without exactly explicitly saying it, but it’s certainly plain enough when I read your whole exchange with dana, that you yourself were raped, despite your clearly saying no. I hadn’t realized that.

    I’d never had addressed the comment I did to you, based on what I did notice in skimming which was only the feminist line about “all men are rapists”, right after you said you yourself had been, if I’d realized that.

    Sorry.

    Like


  330. “Should I just wait until my wedding day to kiss a man, then? Or should I just start making out with girls instead, and became a lesbian?

    Just wondering.”

    no

    but realize the consequences of your actions. these men arent screened, you arent chaperoned and you have no idea what’s in their minds. you have no right to be safe, ever–no one owes you a duty to make you safe but you. don’t go alone with men you aren’t prepared to fuck–ever–it’s not thats hard

    you would never hear a man asking after he is jumped and robbed in an alley at 3am “so, should i just NEVER walk in alleys??? never carry money??”

    Like


  331. As for no meaning no, it doesn’t always, by the literal words. But women can clearly communicate by tone of voice that it does, and when they do, it does mean no. Period. If the guy isn’t stopping the girl can say you’re raping me, and that is iron clad the end.

    The reason why no doesn’t always mean no is the moaned no. The weak resistance “no”, or even less “we shouldn’t” or “I can’t”.

    This sounds more ambigous than it really is. I.e. I think if the various kinds of knows were filmed (as they often are actually) and then put side by side (which they never are) the difference would by crystal to just about everyone. Oh it’s possible to construct a truly ambiguous situation, but if that isn’t getting the guy to stop and the girl really wants him to she can say “no means no. Stop or this will be rape.” Or anything at all like that. That’s absolutely crystal.

    Like


  332. @dana:

    “but realize the consequences of your actions. these men arent screened, you arent chaperoned and you have no idea what’s in their minds. you have no right to be safe, ever”

    Okay, I know you’re saying this in relation to a specific incident, but if I don’t have a right to be safe, if no one does, then I guess we don’t need a police force or the armed forces.

    “–no one owes you a duty to make you safe but you. don’t go alone with men you aren’t prepared to fuck–ever–it’s not thats hard.”

    I haven’t since the incident. It taught me. It taught me that there are bad people out there. I think you missed my piece on locking my door at all time (when most people leave their doors open when their in their rooms at college so they can make FRENDZ yay), making sure my window’s closed, not opening my curtains, not leaving my room unless i absolutely have to at night, and when I do so, I go with at least two people. For a while I couldn’t sleep in the dark.

    I’m hypervigilant. If I don’t feel comfortable with a guy talking to me (even during dinner or when I’m with all my friends), I don’t respond to him and/or leave. If I think he’s creepy, I tell him he’s creepy and tell him to leave me alone. I’m known as a bitch.

    The point I’m making, is that at that time, I wasn’t consenting to sex by being alone with him. Girls aren’t always consenting to sex by being alone with someone of the opposite gender. They consent to sex by saying they want sex, or implying it (through, you know, taking all their clothes off and actively engaging in it). A kiss isn’t implying you want sex.

    The thing Kyle said about me being a moron is true. I felt like the biggest idiot afterwards. I wondered why I was so stupid to walk into the lion’s den and not see it. hindsight is 20/20. I wish I could know who to trust and who not to trust. I see girls I know literally having sleepovers with guys (like sleepover parties, I’m not lying) and not having sex with them, and being okay. And while sometimes I sit there and wonder why the heck they’re doing that, I also sit there and wonder why the hell I found the bad egg out of the thousands on campus. idk.

    Like


  333. on December 4, 2009 at 5:26 pm Wendy Schwartz

    Dana is SO obviously desperate for male approval that “she” will say anything to set herself apart from the other females here no matter how ridiculous and backwoods she sounds.

    It is not a “fantasyland” DANA where women should be able to expect men to have some self-control. It’s women like YOU that I pray to God never raises a male child, because you are clearly the type to instill NO self-control and NO discipline in young men. Those are the boys who grow into rapists and molestors and abusers.

    The ones who are “excused” by their mothers and fathers with “boys will be boys” bullshit are the boys that grow up thinking it’s “okay” to have no control over themselves. How often does a woman “lose her mind and HAVE to grab a cock” when a man doesn’t want it??? Almost never. Know why? Women (girls) are taught self-control. Men are weak mentally and cannot control themselves and that is why they must be regarded as no more than a child and I’ve found dealing with them as if they were children is the safest and easiest way to get along.

    Of COURSE a woman should expect NO LESS than for a man to be able to control himself and keep his hands off of a woman who isn’t asking him for sex. If he cannot, he needs to be chemically castrated and locked away receiving mental help for being an obviously sick person.

    Believe it or not, Dana not all of us pray ANYTHING with a penis glances our way at the grocery store to validate our worth as a woman/female.

    However, I am glad for women like Dana who are willing to do the menial “servant’s work” like cleaning, ironing, cooking, and whatever else it is housewives do these days…..all humans have a use. That’s Dana’s. Taking the losers off our hands and allowing the rest of us girls to play. Thanks Dana!!!!

    Like


  334. mandy

    the police don’t keep you safe from your own dangerous behavior, they draw a chalk line around your body and arrest the guy after he kills you, flays your face and wears it as a mask dancing around imitating you

    Like


  335. @ SA

    both right and left are softened here by the general hedonist and laid back character of the nation. I share with that family an overall distrust of foreigners and despise of faggish environmetalists. We’d both love to have the entire Amazon turned into soybean and cattle. And we see no problem with protectionist measures. I am all for taxatio of foreign capital. Filthy gringos should get 0% interest in fed funds, they shouldn’t be allowed to profit from our interest rates above 10% risk free . His parents say they couldn’t imagine me in a more fitting job

    @ Dana

    I meant that. I won’twrite an essay here about how and why I became aware of how deeply women fear rape, and how those raped are marked by it. I onl say that both are true. I also consider “date rape” largely deserved and a natural consequence of slutiness.

    @ Mandy

    That girl was fucked up. You are right. Butmany girls will create or augment family problems, or work/school problems, in order to play th victim card. I girly girl will always search for the man’s support even when walking in the mildest irregular ground, exagerating the iregularity of the ground in order to gain the guy’s attention. Lying about your father’s death is an exageration of natural femininity.

    Like


  336. the story about the CUba Recovery Funds got much better.

    It is not JP Morgan itself who’s marketing it. It is an American Hedge FUnd created by JP Morgan guys who wanted to manage their own fortunes. The greatest client of that hedge fund comes straight out of bizarro world. It is the Bin Laden Family.

    The guy who is marketing the fund is an Indian (Sikh), who told us he is planning to move to Cuba in one or two years because the opportuniies he sees there are unparalled. The prospect is extremely well done. He also told us that another Cuban wannabe is Carlos Slim, richest man on Earth and mexican tellecom billionaire, close friends to Raul Castro, whom he meets every month in his visits to Cuba

    He says that Cubann debt emitted in 1978/1979 s now trading at 8 cents and he sees it multiplying by 20 until he end of next decade. We wonder who bought that Cuban debt on the emission. The story may well involve a Moscow connection

    .

    This story willbe told to a girl, for the first time, tonight. Wish me well , folks!!! It is for the Freedom of the Cuban People!!

    Viva Cristo Rey; Abajo el Comunismo !!
    Viva Cuba Libre; Abajo el Comunismo !!

    Like


  337. wageslave,

    Good lord, what’s your problem?

    Dana.

    yes, from REAL rape–stranger rape in an alley–a traumatic violent crime no more or less than a man being jumped and beated

    So “real” rape is only applies to stranger-in-the-alley rape???

    This is why I don’t even use the term “date rape”. Rape is rape. Call it for what it is.

    don’t go alone with men you aren’t prepared to fuck–ever–it’s not thats hard

    Please don’t tell me you’re applying this to any and ALL cases. So the times I was alone with my male friends watching anime or playing video games I was consenting to sex???

    what women suffer from in date rape is SELF recrimination from the knowledge THEY were stupid and brought it on themselves or from their disillusionment that the “nice” boy they met in class was just a big smelly man with a hard on too, just like all the other “icky” men that “ogle and leer” at them

    Ok….and they were still raped. So what’s the point in all this ranting about what rape victims should or shouldn’t have done? They already thought about that themselves over and over again. People are victims of crime committed by someone they trust all the time. But no one ever says that they were stupid or “brought it on themselves” (although depending on the situation I can understand a little how someone can bring it on themselves). I always see this when it comes to rape….

    Like


  338. on December 4, 2009 at 5:23 pm Seeking Alpha

    @ gig

    “risk free”

    Risk free? Currency risk and capital risk (if you’re investing in brazilian debt or ODF swaps) are not insignificant.

    Like


  339. on December 4, 2009 at 5:32 pm Cannon's Canon

    gig: “he sees it multiplying by 20 until the end of next decade”

    sounds like this Sikh is using the al gore model

    i am interested to hear if your girl buys into the hype. in my opinion though, if you want to run extreme “community reinvestment act” game, you should marvel at the opportunities in corea del norte and cote d’ivoire. that would be the selfless thing to do.

    Like


  340. Aldonza–

    And even if they did have children, another woman’s child is an automatic drain on the resources available to her and her children.

    It’s only automatic because feminists have made it so with divorce level child support available for single mothers regardless of circumstance. I don’t think single mothers should have a right to child support. I’ll (unhappily) compromise if they’d otherwise qualify for welfare but only to the cash extent of welfare.

    I’ve become convinced that most out of wedlock births were wanted, consciously or subconsciously by the mothers. Most approaching nearly all. They’ve gone up enormously, by a factor of 5x in percentage terms since the consequences of having such kids has become so vastly much less for women than it was before the late 1960s, and ever more less since. Meanwhile the variety of methods of birth control, all be one of the reversible methods of which are within the woman’s sole knowledge and control, have multiplied enormously. Hence for both reasons and many more besides, single women shouldn’t get child support unless they were promised it in writing by the bio dad.

    Like


  341. I very strongly believe that there should be no such thing as marital rape.

    Sure marital assault (though not the bs no injury slap or tiny bruising “domestic violence” of feminists and super white knighting upper tier conservatives) if that’s used as a method to obtain it. But not marital rape. Is sex with an inebriated wife going to now become rape (chargeable at the wife’s discretion if e.g. he pisses her off over the next few days) in our feminist dystopia?

    Regular sexing by the wife is in fact part of the bargain that nearly every man believes he’s making in getting married. It used to be a real obligation, sometimes enforceable by allowing him a low cost divorce, if not forthcoming. It should be again and marital rape should be taken off the books. As it’s has been in every substantial society on earth until Anglosphere feminism.

    Of course enthusiastically wanting it sex by one’s wife is what everyone (including wives) should strive for continuing. But that isn’t the point, or not the only point.

    Like


  342. yes renee you are unequivocally entitled to go alone with strange men and not be raped or killed–see ya on the news

    Like


  343. on December 4, 2009 at 7:06 pm the one and only

    I thought this site couldn’t possibly get any more retarded and divorced from reality. Never in my wildest dreams could I have foreseen a thread of such offensive, incomprehensible stupidity, which is astounding when you consider that this is easily one of the dumbest sites in existence.

    Anyone who says they’d rather be raped than cuckolded is either insane, stupid or ignorant, or all of those. Or maybe it’s some “HAHA BUT RAPE IS JUST A FEMINIST MYTH” type of bullshit that’s making so many people here think that getting raped on is on par with someone punching you in the stomach.

    But of course that’s to be expected. With the amount of pro-rape chatter on this site and sites like these (Doug1’s post is a typical example) it’s no wonder people are also downplaying and trivializing rape. After all, if you convince yourself that rape is no big deal, then the next logical step – raping someone – is no big deal either.

    Mandy XD: “Maybe it’s a little different for men, but such an attack on ANYONE is going to have lasting implications.”

    It’s actually a lot worse for men, not that ignorant fucks like roissy would know.

    Like


  344. @xsplat “I’m always reminded of when creditors used to call me, saying “It is very important that you contact us”.

    Important to whom?”

    The miracle of that statement is that you actually typed it without any notion that you declared yourself a douchebag to the entire world.

    So you skip on your debts like a pussy, and then when somebody asks you to pay back the fucking money you borrowed, you decide that their word choice is a great jumping off point for some discussion of context, rather than facing the fact that you were a pussy bitch little thief.

    So, in answer to “Important to whom?”

    Important to the creditor, important to everybody who ever borrows money and doesn’t want to pay 25% interest because of dildos like you, important to our economic system, and important to our social contract, as much of our economic development relies on trust and respect for contract. And if it’s NOT important to YOU, then you are indeed a fucking douchebag.

    “It’s useless to explain morality to women.”

    In that case, you’re very effeminate.

    Like


  345. the one and only–

    You said absolutely nothing, other than that you are offended. Who the hell cares?

    El stupido know nothing.

    Like


  346. on December 4, 2009 at 7:20 pm the one and only

    Learn to read you fucking imbecile rape apologist. Actually, just kill yourself right now, it’ll be better for everyone.

    Like


  347. Best answer from the King, “I would eat the child, Greek god style.”

    Two incompetent women defending the same position is four tits too many. Renee now admits that the definition of rape is “a bit muddled,” contradicting Mandy’s insistence that it’s quite simple. Renee’s even considering signals sent before the no! How the cookie crumbles.

    Renee, it must be hard to hear with that dryer full of kittens between your ears, so I’ll repeat: 1. Citation above 2. Blame is not zero sum.

    But Mandy gamely shows she needs no assistance to compromise herself. She admits, “girls consent to sex by … implying it,” then hurries into a qualifying parenthesis – girls must take off clothes and actually engage in sex before any implication is made. Ah the cogs of cognitive dissonance. Her summary is apt: “me being a moron… the biggest idiot”.

    Like


  348. On a lesser note, the president of Brazil, best known by his nickname, Lula (squid), had his name mentioned this week in an article published in the most read Brazilian newspaper, as often boasting of himself in private conversations as having been an ass rapist during his days in prision as a political prisioner.

    Like


  349. Renee

    This is why I don’t even use the term “date rape”. Rape is rape. Call it for what it is.

    No feminist efforts to redefine rape are not rape.

    They’re bullshit, designed to make all males live in fear of female after the act unhappiness, for whatever reason.

    They’re complete crap.

    There’s real rape. And there’s feminist bullshiite female regret “rape”. Which isn’t rape.

    Like


  350. And in other news, 22 year old college student Amanda KNox just got sent to 26 years worth of jail in Italy for murder of her British roommate. Would never have happened in the US based on the evidence I saw, but I guess there are still differences between Anglo and non-Anglo countries in the greater West.

    Like


  351. The one and only …douchebag.

    Depending, for a man, I could see cuckoldry as worse than rape. Ad homs are not arguments asshole.

    Like


  352. on December 4, 2009 at 9:07 pm the one and only

    Clarence, I hope somebody puts a bullet through your stupid fucking sociopath head. You fucking piece of shit rape apologist.

    Like


  353. wow, R gets a one degree of separation instalanche

    Like


  354. on December 4, 2009 at 9:38 pm the one and only fag

    Look at me I’m cool cuz I am an internet tough guy…girl…PERSON!

    RAPE IS BAD!!!! CUCKOLD GOOD!!!!

    Excuse me while I go read my Twilight books and cry myself to sleep! TOODLES!

    Like


  355. on December 4, 2009 at 9:39 pm the one and only fag

    BTW I ROOT FOR TEAM JACOB!!!!

    Like


  356. Carcer,

    Renee now admits that the definition of rape is “a bit muddled,” contradicting Mandy’s insistence that it’s quite simple. Renee’s even considering signals sent before the no! How the cookie crumbles.

    I’ve always believe this.

    Renee, it must be hard to hear with that dryer full of kittens between your ears, so I’ll repeat: 1. Citation above 2.

    And it must suck to have awful reading comprehension. I want scholarly or scientific proof (or at least articles) supporting your assertions about rape in connection to conception and that vaginas like a rapist’s dick.

    Doug1

    There’s real rape. And there’s feminist bullshiite female regret “rape”. Which isn’t rape.

    But since when is all instances of “date rape” regret “rape”? What makes you think that I consider “regret rape” real rape?

    Like


  357. @Mandy! XD

    “Roissy, rape isn’t that easy. It’s something that stays with someone for the rest of their lives, and saying that someone’s going to work out their anger and shame through the gym is the biggest load of bs I’ve ever heard in my life.”

    It depends on the person. I would know it does not mean shit about me. I even survived a Bubba attempt when I was 17. At 17 it was a little more screwed up but I’d definitely pump Bubba with some lead if I found him.

    Like


  358. anony

    I think it’s hard for women to empathize with cuckoldry because most women, if placed in the position of finding “a baby in a basket on the doorstep” would love to fulfill the fantasy of nurturing it to flourish under her unique superior nurturing skills. (given adequate resources and support).

    Tell women in maternity that they had 20 births that day but mixed up the babies. See if it matters.

    Like


  359. The miracle of that statement is that you actually typed it without any notion that you declared yourself a douchebag to the entire world.

    So you skip on your debts like a pussy, and then when somebody asks you to pay back the fucking money you borrowed, you decide that their word choice is a great jumping off point for some discussion of context, rather than facing the fact that you were a pussy bitch little thief.

    I’ve had to press charges on my creditors for leaving upwards of 50 messages on my voicemail…prior to the date of my payments being due. It’s very important that you contact us to pay your bill…two fucking weeks early because we don’t know how to manage our finances and are harrassing you three fucking times a day; for half the fucking month for the next decade in an effort to pay our own bills on time! Yay!

    Go fuck yourself.

    They consent to sex by saying they want sex

    No girl walks up to a guy and says, “Nice mustache; let’s fuck.”

    or implying it

    Yes; they imply it. They will never openly state it with a new guy.

    through, you know, taking all their clothes off and actively engaging in it

    First of all do you not know the definition of the word ‘imply’? One does not imply that they wish to devour a kumquat by taking a bite of a kumquat at hand. My eating of a kumquat shows implicitly that I wished to do so. Being implicit and implying something are mutually exclusive.

    Secondly, practically no woman you aren’t currently in a sexual relationship with is going to be implicit about sex. She won’t even be implicit about sex after you have already had sex. You have to lead her and seduce her several times before this starts to happen.

    Any guy who is waiting for a woman to ‘imply’ that she wants to have sex by taking off her clothes, getting his dick out and put it in her without his doing anything is going to be a lifelong virgin. Get fucking real.

    A kiss isn’t implying you want sex.

    A kiss is implying that you are sexually attracted to someone. So are certain conversation topics. So is spending time alone with someone you have made out with. So is going back to someone’s room.

    If you aren’t sexually attracted to someone do not fucking kiss them, arrange multiple one on one intimate conversations about relationships et cetera, and do not go back to their room with them after all of this has happened.

    How hard is that to understand? In all of this have you still not considered that you were essentially trying to manipulate this guy and bit off more than you could chew?

    I’m sorry for your misfortune; I mean that and I don’t think you ‘deserve’ what happened (if it actually happened, which I’m not sold on), but you seriously come across as not only stupid but self-centered in the extreme.

    I see girls I know literally having sleepovers with guys (like sleepover parties, I’m not lying) and not having sex with them, and being okay.

    I totally believe that. If any of those girls said, “Let’s fuck” every single guy would be down with it though. What those girls are doing is emotional abuse. It’s morally repugnant. Those Betas are waiting for an invitation. It might come; but doubtful.

    You seem envious of this. You want to engage in that behavior; for your own self-gratification. It’s fun. You have yet to consider what you would be doing to these helpless Omegas because it is all me, me, me, all the time. Why can’t I have what those other girls have. Why can’t I surround myself with men that I percieve to be asexual creatures to use as emotional tampons.

    Like


  360. Anony wrote,
    About Paternity testing

    ”’that is a non sequitur. Where is probable cause? Where is the codified crime? There is no medical justification to warrant a medical intervention. Why insult 98% of women, at a time of vulnerability, to find the 2% who commit an uncodified crime? Are you consistent in your belief to engage Big Government to solve your personal paranoias? Do you no longer believe in individual responsibilities? Who will pay for these mostly wasteful tests? are you reaching for my purse? , or opening yours?”’

    I don’t know statistics but if you say 2%, well, that is HUGE number, in a bigger clinic, would be like 2-3 babies per week.
    Im mean, it’s certainly happening, so why should it be so hard to dig out money for a needed cause, or feeling insulted on it. i don’t feel insulted when people are giving money to prevent crime, I see it as not a bigger thing then when cops stop me for an alcohol check, It’s not about what i have done but what others have, and will do, and with a simple test this can be prevented.

    Like


  361. *Munches popcorn*

    Like


  362. Why isn’t there an option c) “both buttrape and cuckoldry please” ?

    There’s bound to be a few freaks into that

    Like


  363. Women rarely understand what cuckolding means to men, because it’s always their (the mother’s) child. It cannot be any other way.

    If your a woman, try to imagine the next scenario:
    You’re about 40, you have a beautiful child who’s 12. Then on a sunny afternoon by some dodgy coincidence you receive information stating your child is not related to you biologically. After some fight your husband tells you a story that right after you gave birth to your child he/she was taken away from you and switched to a child your husband had with his secretary (who was way hotter then you). Your child was disposed of, simply thrown into a thrash bin.
    The being you loved and nurtured for 12 years – namely your own child – simply does not exist. You’ve been purposefully defrauded and now you can never have a child of your own. You WILL die childless no matter what you do or where you whine.

    To add insult to injury, lots of asshats – including newspaper columnists and trolls on forums – tell you it’s not that big of a deal, you should suck it up and keep smiling.
    But this is still not all! If you divorce, you have to pay CS. If you leave your husband and “your” child, you’ll be stigmatized. And on top of it all the people who knew what happened all along just laugh at you.

    How would you feel then?

    Like


  364. “I’ve had to press charges on my creditors for leaving upwards of 50 messages on my voicemail…prior to the date of my payments being due. It’s very important that you contact us to pay your bill…two fucking weeks early because we don’t know how to manage our finances and are harrassing you three fucking times a day; for half the fucking month for the next decade in an effort to pay our own bills on time! Yay!”

    You were perfectly justified. In fact, you were so justified that I’m not sure why you felt the need to respond to me. I’m guessing that feel stigmatized as a deadbeat, even though you aren’t.

    I have a suggestion, which I’ve done in the past, and it works very well. If you’re having a dispute with a company, skip their customer service drones and go to the top. Go on Yahoo business or some other site, find their main headquarters, call, and ask to speak to the President. You’ll usually end up speaking to a Vice-President or Director, and they almost always straighten things out in your favor, especially when you’re in the right.

    Like


  365. Look at events in isolation, I think that the male equivalent to cuckoldry is not rape, but is instead tricking a woman into bearing your child and then abandoning her.

    In one case (with cuckoldry) the woman is tricking the man into giving her resources without actually letting him impregnate her. In the other case (abandonment), the man is tricking the woman into letting him impregnate her without giving her resources.

    However, the analogy is imperfect because these sorts of events cannot be looked at in isolation. Society has recognized that rakish behavior on the part of men is wrong. Thus, the man who impregates a woman then tries to leave can expect to get hit with draconian child support extraction measures. Moreover, the woman he has abandoned is eligible for welfare and many other benefits at public expense.

    At the same time, victims of cuckoldry do not enjoy these sorts of benefits.

    _______

    Anyway, if you are a man, it’s easy enough to protect yourself from cuckoldry. Just pick up a home paternity test from a drugstore.

    Like


  366. Interesting choices – historical note –

    During the heydays of the Catholic Austro Hungarian Empire in Central Europe – 1850-1915 – that time period – it is estimated that a full third of all births were not the result of marital intercourse. Its just that everyone was blond and blue eyed in Austria and that no one had any reason on the surface to question anyone’s paternity.

    In all seriousness – the cuckolding woman’s attempt to cover up the real paternity of the child is the right thing to do unless the child was obviosuly not the real father’s, i.e. the child looks like Tiger Woods and the father is white. I say that only because it was not the child’s fault the cunt mother slept around without even using a condom. Divorcing and breaking up the kid’s family at age 10 and telling the kid his ‘father’ is not really his father will screw that kid up and ‘up’ his chances of becoming a real piece of garbage as an adult – I see jail, etc.

    Therefore the wife giving birth to another man’s child during marriage is one mistake – letting her husband figure out that his boy is not really his is the second, and bigger, mistake.

    The mandatory DNA testing for paternity at birth is the best idea I think. It would put so much pressure on the woman to know that her ‘meal ticket’ will know within 3 hours of giving birth wether the baby is his. As a sidenote – think of all the Jerry Springer/Maury Povich shows that will be spawned as a result of mandatory paternity testing.

    Like


  367. on December 5, 2009 at 12:30 pm the one and only

    “Look at me I’m cool cuz I am an internet tough guy…girl…PERSON!

    RAPE IS BAD!!!! CUCKOLD GOOD!!!!

    Excuse me while I go read my Twilight books and cry myself to sleep! TOODLES!”

    This right here is so fucking typical. As far as PUA/MRAS/other assclowns are concerned, only women are opposed to rape. You guys really are so fucking delusional that you think all men share your demented rape fantasies and violent extremism.

    And apparently being against rape == being in favor of cuckoldry, which doesn’t even make any fucking sense to anyone who isn’t brain damaged (like you are). However, compared to getting raped, cuckoldry is like someone giving you $500,000 and sending you to an all expenses paid trip to Disney World. That’s how much of a difference there is between the two.

    Like


  368. EVERYONE here is opposed to “rape”

    REAL rape–stranger jumps out and grabs you rape

    the quibble is with the extension of rape to iffy situations where attraction has been established or somehow transmitted to a man but there are some manner of last minute objections on the woman’s part

    can’t you tell the difference between things? or would that be “discrimination?

    Like


  369. on December 5, 2009 at 12:50 pm the one and only

    Ah, so rape is a-okay if the perpetrator and victim know each other. In fact, it’s not even rape at all!

    Not that I’m shocked to hear someone say that, because it’s been said plenty of times before on this site and related sites.

    Like


  370. its not “a okay”

    its not RAPE

    human relations contain ambiguity

    Like


  371. “Therefore the wife giving birth to another man’s child during marriage is one mistake – letting her husband figure out that his boy is not really his is the second, and bigger, mistake. ”

    Here’s a hypothetical for you:

    Suppose a man (who is a great father) murders his wife because he sees her flirting with another man. Should he go to jail?

    After all, if he goes to jail it will deprive his children of their one remaining parent. And the rights of the children trump everything, right?

    Like


  372. the one and only:
    You are a beautiful troll. That’s why I won’t be responding to you until you grow up and get an argument.

    However to end this pleasant little chat, since I know your whole purpose is to troll:
    I hope all your orifaces are penetrated against your will one hundred times with sharp and dirty objects.
    I hope someone takes you to court for whatever reason and makes you pay a large percentage of your earnings for the rest of your life..so much so that you have to live in a homeless shelter or your clunker of a car. I hope, because of this, that you never get a chance to have a husband or wife or kid.
    I wish you misery, and a knock on the head that makes you forever think that Forrest Gump is a genius.

    There, now I’ve sunk to your level and I’ve wished enough on you that I feel no need to wish more. Carry on.

    Like


  373. on December 5, 2009 at 1:15 pm the one and only

    dana: “its not “a okay”

    its not RAPE

    human relations contain ambiguity”

    If a woman does not want to have sex with you but you have it with her anyway against her wishes, then that is a textbook definition of rape. There is no “ambiguity.”

    Clarence: “You are a beautiful troll. That’s why I won’t be responding to you until you grow up and get an argument.”

    Yeah, because clearly anyone who realizes that rape is absolutely wrong and morally abhorrent must be a troll.

    “However to end this pleasant little chat, since I know your whole purpose is to troll:
    I hope all your orifaces are penetrated against your will one hundred times with sharp and dirty objects.
    I hope someone takes you to court for whatever reason and makes you pay a large percentage of your earnings for the rest of your life..so much so that you have to live in a homeless shelter or your clunker of a car. I hope, because of this, that you never get a chance to have a husband or wife or kid.
    I wish you misery, and a knock on the head that makes you forever think that Forrest Gump is a genius.

    There, now I’ve sunk to your level and I’ve wished enough on you that I feel no need to wish more. Carry on.”

    You truly are insane, and likely a danger to society. It really would be for the best if you were either imprisoned or killed.

    Like


  374. @Renee

    And it must suck to have awful reading comprehension. I want scholarly or scientific proof (or at least articles) supporting your assertions about rape in connection to conception and that vaginas like a rapist’s dick.

    I think Carcer is referring to the book “Sperm Wars” that he cited above. The book contains a lot of theses that are supposedly based on scientific research; some sound reasonable, some don’t. Claims relevant to rape:
    – After date rape 13% of women will start a relationship with the man if the intercourse failed, but 40% will start a relationship if intercourse succeeded
    – Regarding normal rape: “a woman is more likely to conceive from rape than from routine sex with her partner”. But the book also notes that a woman is also more likely to conceive if she has a long-time partner and only sees him for a brief amount of time.

    In my opinion the book fails at giving a conclusive argument that woman have evolved to prefer the sperm of a rapist; so either Carcer misinterpreted it or he has another source of information.

    Now even if we take Carcer’s position and assume that Mandy’s body wanted to be “raped”, I don’t see how that would make it any more acceptable. She still has a conscious mind and can decide against sex even if her body wants sex.
    So the only excuse for the rapist would be if he honestly believed that she wanted sex and from my understanding of the situation she made clear this was not the case.

    Like


  375. Sabril –

    I don’t know if your analogy holds – murder vs. adultery.

    The kid whose father can murder his mother is screwed either way and will become a ward of the Court. The kid will be placed in foster care or adopted out – that is true now and was true 200 years ago.

    In Roissy’s catch-22 questions, the non-paternal father still raised the boy and had the responsibility and privilidge in doing so. Raising an adopted son has it reward and its responsiblities. The love that the non-biological father and son would have have for each other over the first ten years would have been real and don’t tell me all affection would be gone when the news broke that the son was not biologically the father.

    I think the real crux of Roissy’s article was how do you punish, under today’s system, a woman that cuckold’s a man like set forth in the hypothetial. There is nothing you can do. But when you think of all our behaior on a cosmic level – abortion for instance is a ‘cosmic ‘crime – a married woman becoming pregnant by another man and passing it off on her actual husband is a crime – but is it a cosmic crime in that its repercussions will be felt for generations – if the hypothetical father disowns the son and breaks up the family after 10 years – that would be a cosmic crime because the kid is wrecked.

    Just food for thought –

    Like


  376. “The kid whose father can murder his mother is screwed either way and will become a ward of the Court. The kid will be placed in foster care or adopted out – that is true now and was true 200 years ago.”

    By your logic, the father should not be prosecuted and the child should stay with him. Why add to the tragedy?

    Taking the child from the father will not bring its mother back.

    Like


  377. Neither would ever happen to me. I am fairly handy with my fists and would fancy my chances against “bubba”. And if a woman produced a child that looked nothing like me I would be walking out the door so quickly she wouldn’t even know I was there.

    For those less able than me, I would guess anal rape is better than a life time of financial payments to some other cunts kids. In the UK, the estimate of men bringing up another mans child without their knowledge is 25%. I don’t know if that is true but I can guarantee you it wouldn’t be me.

    Like


  378. SMH

    It takes at the bare minimum 3 weeks before you would test positive for HIV infection. There is no way the doctor can tell you one hour later that you’re HIV negative.

    Like


  379. on December 5, 2009 at 6:03 pm k from ffs, not the other K

    I do not care what ‘signals’ a woman sends me, unless we have made clear agreement for rape scenario, she asks me to be rough, she initiates rough sex or I initiate it and she gives positive feedback, if she tells me to stop I stop. If she is in my bedroom naked, or we are having sex, I would be angry and dump her but I would still stop. Unless you are paying a prostitute, it is her body to give when she wants and you are entitled to nothing except what she chooses to give you. It is your job to convince her to give it to you of her own free will. If you fail to do that it is your fault and you are a loser.

    Only a pathetic moron needs to use force to fuck women and believes that they owe him something (they do not). If a woman is stupid enough to ignore common sense and her responsibility to maintain her own safety (most women) and puts herself in a bad situation it still does not absolve a man of his responsibility to not rape her. He is responsible for his own actions.

    This is about societal obligations and personal responsibility (and general human decency but I do not really care about that). Besides why would I try to make a woman do something she is uncomfortable with when I can just find another woman willing to take her place? If I ever fucked a woman who later accused me of ‘rape’ I would sue her and win because I have been filming and photographing my entirely consensual sexual encounters for many years. All men should do this.

    Like


  380. on December 5, 2009 at 6:05 pm k from ffs, not the other K

    “i dont believe its rape when you are making out with a guy in his room and he decides to fuck you–i think going alone to a man’s room is consent, period.”

    Are you a naive and misinformed teenage girl or just an idiot? The “and he decides to fuck you” part is very revealing. Consensual sex requires the consent of both people, it is not a decision that can be made by only one person. This is a very simple concept. Consenting to enter a room and consenting to kiss are NOT equivalent to consenting to sex. “Stranger jumps out and grabs you” rape is statistically rare.

    Entering a man’s room and kissing him will make him believe that you are interested in sex, but only an asshole would assume that it meant he was ENTITLED to sex and only a rapist would fuck a woman without caring if she wanted it or not. This view combined with your rant about pumping and dumping makes me wonder what kind of men you have been fucking and what other sexual and psychological hangups you have.

    I hope you are still physically attractive because your personality is very unappealing. Regardless I suspect you are only attracted to abusive assholes so perhaps it does not matter.

    Like


  381. on December 5, 2009 at 6:09 pm k from ffs, not the other K

    Also, Mandy, you should seek to address the issue of your attention whore personality flaw. Right now people tolerate it because you are young, female and from what I remember slightly attractive but when you age and your looks fade you will become an irrelevant obnoxious old hag like “Lady” Raine. Women with low (or severely inflated) self-esteem who seek validation through shameless attention whoring are easily manipulated and generally miserable. Do you want to end up an empty shell of a human being? Are you a masochist? You are raped then you come here to discuss it? That is like a black man getting beat up by neo-nazis then going to a KKK meeting for emotional support.

    Stop being such a cunt and work out your psychological issues like a normal person. Join a support group, see a counsellor, find religion, trim some fucking bonzai trees.

    Like


  382. a detailed description of an experience for the purposes of getting across to a young girl isn’t a “rant”. i am 40 years old, married and went to college exactly at the height of the date rape hysteria when these ludicrous definitions of rape were invented out of whole cloth by a bunch of man-hating lesbians who were determined to justify any and all female behavior and demonise any and all male behavior at all costs.

    save your feminist shaming words for the fag whos dick you have in a glass case or your poor browbeaten kids, im not interested in your pussy so your atempt at “belittling” me is destined to fall flat

    Like


  383. oh, ew–from your comment to mandy it appears you are a “man” lol that scraps my comment in moderation

    Like


  384. Dana,

    Lol stranger jumps out and grabs you-rape isn’t the only kind of REAL rape that exists.

    human relations contain ambiguity

    That may be true and a woman can insinuate consent when going to a guy’s room and kissing him but in the end, k from ffs, not the other K got it right when he said this:

    Only a pathetic moron needs to use force to fuck women and believes that they owe him something (they do not). If a woman is stupid enough to ignore common sense and her responsibility to maintain her own safety (most women) and puts herself in a bad situation it still does not absolve a man of his responsibility to not rape her. He is responsible for his own actions…..

    Entering a man’s room and kissing him will make him believe that you are interested in sex, but only an asshole would assume that it meant he was ENTITLED to sex and only a rapist would fuck a woman without caring if she wanted it or not.

    And the one and only when he/she said this:

    If a woman does not want to have sex with you but you have it with her anyway against her wishes, then that is a textbook definition of rape. There is no “ambiguity.”

    Emphasis on definition of rape.

    Like


  385. the problem is that you think your definitions and rights matter

    if you are alone in a room with a man and he decides your mouth says no no but your eyes say yes yes its great if you thought it was “rape”–go prosecute him you STILL got what you define as “raped”

    you cant presume men wont do this and noone will protect you

    you think it matters if its rape

    it doesnt

    stop going alone with men you dumb bitches

    Like


  386. Mandy, I am interested as to why you would post on this site, a site about gaming chicks, when u were sexually assaulted 3 months ago. Seems a little strange?

    Is there not another site where you can gain solace in what you’ve experienced?

    Like


  387. on December 5, 2009 at 7:55 pm k from ffs, not the other K

    I am curious what other Dana you look like. Dana Halabi? That Korean girl? Pre-op Dana International? If you look like Dana Scully I can picture her getting raped on the hood of her car in Straightheads when I think of you. It is even REAL rape because she is fucked by strangers!

    Your argument is incoherent and confusing. English may not be my best language but I know enough to know that you are babbling nonsense. What are you talking about? The definitions and rights matter because they are generally identical to established law. If the man breaks the law by raping you he can be punished under the law. Just because a man can ignore this and still rape a woman it does not mean it is not still generally recognized as morally and legally wrong, just like killing someone or stealing their car would be.

    Stop going alone with men? You believe that women should stop being alone with men because at any point in time there is a distant possibility that they could be raped by any man, anywhere? This is ridiculous. Why are you on this blog if you believe that women should not be alone with men? You take reasonable precautions to keep yourself from being victimized but you do not stop living life and plan everything according to life as a permanent victim.

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  388. good argument–you really refuted my every point

    no, continue going alone with nice strange men and insisting your magic rape word will stop bad things from appening to you.

    once i discovered the magic word “robbed” i just said it over and over until all crime in my neighborhood stopped!

    and yes i look like every human ever named dana, including dana andrews and dana carvey

    Like


  389. I’d choose the rape.

    Like


  390. Personally, I think this going to be one of those classic, “Mars and Venus” arguments where nothing will be resolved because the gender differances are too great.

    I don’t think that men perceive rape as worse than cuckoldry. They just consider cuckoldry to be worse as a personal issue because it’s more likely to happen to them.

    Yes, I know that male rape does happen. Notably, in prison. But, that’s an enclosed area full of violent offenders who often co-operate as gangs and groups and that have no access to women. Furthermore, unless the guy is a real idiot, he has time to mentally prepare himself for this possibility. He won’t like it, but he knows it’s there.

    Outside of prison, it’s a whole different story. Gangrape of males is much, much less frequent for the simple fact that men have the option of women. And, the scenario listed above notwithstanding, it’s pretty hard for one single male to violently rape another single male. Certain things trigger the classic “Flight or Fight” reflex in people and realizing that some guy is after your ass is one of them for men. Even if he has a knife on you, because (As I’m certain that all the guys on this board will agree) most men will choose being stabbed or shot over being raped.

    This is not to say that women won’t fight thier rapists. The point is, it’s really all about size and upper body strength. A 250-pound bodybuilder can take a 170-pound man. But, if the 170 pounder is motivated (And, if it’s rape, you better believe he will be), he can still tear the 250 guy up pretty good. A 110 or 120-pound woman, however, will be much easier to pin. You can argue about whether or not rape is about sex or power. The one thing you can’t argue about is that rape is all about opportunity and the rapist will usually choose the easier option, the woman.

    The preceeding, by the way, is knowledge gleaned from over fifteen years of practicing martial arts. And, it is a generality. I’ve met women that could kick my ass in a heartbeat. But, they are definitely in the minority.

    Back to the subject with cuckolding. Now, most guys don’t have to deal with rape. But, we’ve all had a girlfriend cheat on you. So, the possibilty that it turns out that your son is not yours is very real to all of us men.

    Personally, if I spend ten years raising a child, then it’s my child. I don’t care who provided the genetic material, it will be my son or daughter and there will be no anger towards them. After all, it isn’t thier fault.

    The wife is another story. If she had an affair, it was a one-time thing and she got pregnant from it…… maybe the relationship could survive. I’ve had girlfriends cheat, I’ve cheated and neither sex has a monopoly on stupid. But, if the affair goes on for months or if she doesn’t tell me about the child’s paternity until years after the fact, then it’s over. That’s a total breach of trust and no relationship survives without trust.

    My two cents.

    Remo Williams,
    The Master of Sinanju.

    P.S. Mandy?

    The gentleman in question?

    Ambush him, mace him in the face and break his knees with a lead pipe. That’s worth years of therapy.

    Like


  391. RemoWilliams:

    What makes one crime worse than the other will obviously depend on the circumstances surrounding each crime. But if I had to choose between the buttrape in the first example and a hypothetical where I find out the kid isn’t mine and yet I’m too old or poor to have another plus I get to pay the lying slut for the next so many years of my life -yeah I choose the first evil. I’m also the kind of guy that would never hate the kid no matter what, and would try to stay in his /her life if I have been there for any significant part of time. Obviously rape can be much worse and obviously in prison one is more likely to be repeatedly raped, sometimes for years, so one size does not fit all.

    What Roissy has done in this post has shown that cuckoldry really hurts men, esp in todays legal climate where they can be punished for trusting their woman.

    Like


  392. on December 5, 2009 at 9:52 pm k from ffs, not the other K

    Dana, you are the dumbest woman I have ever encountered on the Internet. I no longer wish to continue this conversation.

    Like


  393. Dana,

    if you are alone in a room with a man and he decides your mouth says no no but your eyes say yes yes its great if you thought it was “rape”–go prosecute him you STILL got what you define as “raped”

    Well if he forced me to have sex after I said no (and I’m not talking about the “I’m not sure” or “I don’t really mean it” no – I mean an actual NO) – then it is rape. What’s so hard understand? As I said, depending on the situation, going to a man’s room may insinuate consent, but the point is, if he forces you to have sex against your will, it’s rape. No matter what mistakes a woman makes, that doesn’t give him the right to rape you nor does it negate the fact that he raped you.

    And seriously, should women look at any and all men they are with as potential rapists, because according to you, women shouldn’t be alone with ANY man. Isn’t this what many men hate feminists for….for insinuating that all men are potential rapists? Aren’t you encouraging that dreaded “rape hysteria”?

    Besides, how do you define “strange men” anyway? Or rather what’s you definition of strange?

    hcl,

    I object to this entire post. IT IS DISGUSTING. All you men who preferred raped: you’re losers. With the cuckold, at least you can redeem yourself by grab a shotgun, blast the whore, the AMOG, and the little bastard. Then flee abroad.

    Wow….”redeem” youself by shooting an innocent child….really? While I am completely against going on a shooting rampage, I can somewhat understand you shooting the woman and the other guy(I have no idea what AMOG stands for), but not the child.

    Like


  394. mandy my warm lovin will get you to forget all your sorrows. holla at me girl.

    Like


  395. If Dana is indeed a woman, she is both epically rational and probably not American, which raises the odds she’s attractive as well. I had assumed it was a man.

    Like


  396. @ Renee: By the spirit of the law your definition is rape. However, practically and ethically it should never be prosecuted unless you have something more than he said/she said evidence.

    Unfortunately that is not the case in Western societies, though it ought to be.

    Like


  397. Well if he forced me to have sex after I said no (and I’m not talking about the “I’m not sure” or “I don’t really mean it” no – I mean an actual NO) – then it is rape. What’s so hard understand?

    How about the part where you fucking prove you said ‘no’ in the first place?

    -or-

    the part where he is guilty of the same exact crime as the ‘grab you in the dark’ rapist, regardless of extenuating circumstances.

    A ‘Date Rape’ may still be wrong, morally, legally, et cetera. It’s not the exact same crime as an actual violent rape however.

    How hard is that to understand? All rape is rape? Why not all theft is theft? Why not all murder is murder?

    Why can’t we send a 13 year old girl to fedmax for shoplifting some lipstick? It’s the same exact fucking crime as hijacking a shipment of lipstick off the docks. A theif is a theif regardless of circumstances or severity right?

    Oh, no wait. It’s not. That’s only for rape. Of course, if a woman drugs my ass and fucks me with a splintered broom stick it’s not even fucking considered rape at all. There has to be penis involved for rape to occur.

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  398. If I ever fucked a woman who later accused me of ‘rape’ I would sue her and win because I have been filming and photographing my entirely consensual sexual encounters for many years.

    This should read, “Hi, I’m ‘k from ffs’ and I’m a virgin or a mangina; you choose!” Why do people come on here and make up shit like this?

    Even assuming it’s true; you’ve been filming all of your sexual encounters for years? Do you not even realize that you need consent to do that, and if you didn’t get it you qualify as a sex offender?

    Emphasis on definition of rape.

    Rape -noun
    4. an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation

    Should a rockstar that trashes his hotel room be charged with ‘rape’ then? I mean, that does fit the definition of rape, doesn’t it? All rape is rape right? It’s clearly one crime.

    I mean, just because something fits the ‘definition’ of a word doesn’t mean that it is synonymous with the legal definition of a crime that matches that word.

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  399. Breeze,

    By the spirit of the law your definition is rape. However, practically and ethically it should never be prosecuted unless you have something more than he said/she said evidence.

    Unfortunately that is not the case in Western societies, though it ought to be.

    I agree wholeheartedly with this.

    K(yle),

    How about the part where you fucking prove you said ‘no’ in the first place?

    Of course someone has to prove that rape took place just like someone has to prove that any crime occured. That’s obvious (or it should be). So your point….

    -or-

    the part where he is guilty of the same exact crime as the ‘grab you in the dark’ rapist, regardless of extenuating circumstances.

    Well if the legal definition of rape took place in both cases then…..

    A ‘Date Rape’ may still be wrong, morally, legally, et cetera. It’s not the exact same crime as an actual violent rape however.

    How do you know? That’s like saying if a person you knew tried to kill you or beat you up it’s not the same crime as a stranger who tried to do the same thing. In both cases their attempted murder or battery/abuse/etc.

    Rape -noun
    4. an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation

    Is that a general definition of rape or the legal one. I assumed we were refering to the legal definition (if there’s a difference).

    How hard is that to understand? All rape is rape? Why not all theft is theft? Why not all murder is murder?

    I admit you got me there 😉 I’ve always wondered about that. But it seems to me that you think all rape shouldn’t be considered real rape mainly based on whether the people involved know each other (especially if they were dating), not the actual act itself.

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  400. Look, just to put it out there, I’m not for redefining rape or convicting someone of rape without evidence. When I spoke about rape, I’m talking about actual rape, not a person feeling like they were raped.

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  401. “No matter what mistakes a woman makes, that doesn’t give him the right to rape you nor does it negate the fact that he raped you.”

    no it doesn’t give him “the right” to rape you–and if you run down the street naked with $20 bills taped to you no one has a “right” to rob you either.

    the “right” not to have crimes perpetrated upon you is a right to redress AFTER it happens, it doesn’t STOP the bad things from happening

    the women who went off with ted bundy had a “right” not to be murdered too, how’d that work out for them?

    yes, in an atomistic, anonymous urban society or college setting you are a fool if you do NOT treat every man as a potential rapist or serial killer–they aren’t from your neighborhood, your mom doesn’t know their family and you have no notion of their background.

    this doesn’t mean you live in fear, it means you exercise NORMAL caution and stop engaging in boner generating behavior when you are alone with a man you have no intention of fucking

    why is that so difficult for women to grasp?

    i used to believe the practice of chaperoning was set up to protect women from rape, it’s now become apparent it was established to protect men from false allegations of rape

    carcer, yes im a woman–just one thats not trying to fuck, feed or befriend anyone here, so i can speak my mind without censoring myself or trying to appear “attractive”

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  402. Dana

    yes, in an atomistic, anonymous urban society or college setting you are a fool if you do NOT treat every man as a potential rapist or serial killer–they aren’t from your neighborhood, your mom doesn’t know their family and you have no notion of their background.

    this doesn’t mean you live in fear, it means you exercise NORMAL caution and stop engaging in boner generating behavior when you are alone with a man you have no intention of fucking

    Now this I agree with for the most part 😉 It just even though a woman/girl may not have been careful, that shouldn’t be used as a basis for deciding that she wasn’t raped or that the rape wasn’t REAL rape.

    It funny because from my experience men generally hate the idea of women seeing any man as a potential rapist. That’s what they hate feminists for (one of the reasons anyway), for insinuating that idea. I saw this for myself over at the False Rape Society blog. They would say that it perpetuates rape or general hysteria. The first paragraph really is an example of something I commented on:

    Men always complain about how when it comes to the issue of rape, feminists always present the entire gender of potential rapists. But based on some of the comments here (like being alone with a guy even if you know him, kissing him, etc.), women shouldn’t be alone with a guy or kiss him because you may “lead him on” and be raped, as if he can’t help himself. If she should keep this in mind anytime she meets and dates a guy, isn’t this the same as seeing any man you meet as a potential rapist?

    I’m not saying a woman should lead a guy on for the heck of it or that she shouldn’t be careful. It’s just that when it comes to safety in regards to interacting with men you date, the lines seem to blur.

    And then there’s this:

    Besides, how do you define “strange men” anyway? Or rather what’s you definition of strange?

    Because based on what you say, just about any man is a “strange man”

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  403. You need to do a story on “Foxy Knoxy as Maneater”: A modern day witch has been caught.

    Many in the Liberal Press are dismissing this murder as ‘Railroading of an Innocent abroad’ like some Henry James novel…..or Anti-Americanism.

    A few censored NYT blog comments are accurately casting her as a Socio-Path unable to stop smiling at her kill, female and male.

    She is a tumor on American Womanhood and in her most benign form has exposed a rotting foundation that is spreading unchecked far and wide in the USA.

    As many know, the “Jr. Year Abroad” has been a genteel fixture of young ladies seeking mediteranean lust for generations going back to Jackie-O. Most went, studied a bit, and slept alot with older Professors, young playboys and just swarthy locals who made their squeaky clean red-necks back home look bland. Then after sowing said wild oats, they came back and settled back in the USA, with none the wiser.

    None of this matters, except when the socio-path enters. Her shakles thrown off, she destroys at will. Cloaked in the novelty of the exotic, uninhibited American, she is the Blackwidow as Butterfly.

    Beware, her Myspace page is the Miss Jekyl/Hyde, that many game-players here engage on a daily basis and ‘know’. These are the women who endear rage, wrath, and fury in civilized man.

    Her herpes sores erupted only when trapped, revealing her rotting soul. Many more infest our society, not condemned by an ancient paternalstic society that will not accept a praying mantiss godess.

    Heed the warning: You have seen a witch.

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  404. renee there is a difference between a philosophical belief that all men are evil, predatory rapists(feminism) and realistic SELF PROTECTIVE preemptive actions that keep you from being raped if you are not the type of woman who believes you can get a man’s cock hard and not fuck him(sanity).

    i do not believe “all men are rapists” any more than i believe every man that walks by me is going to mug me–that doesnt mean i walk around with a sign over my head stating i’m carrying $1000 in cash

    im trying to combat the notion that the word “rape” and its various definitions constitute some magic anti-rape shield. this same belief in magic talismans comes into play with the fabled “restraining order”. just because a woman gets a restraining order it doesnt STOP a determined man from coming right up to her and killing her–its no more magic than the definition of the word “rape” it just increases the likelihood he’ll be prosecuted and harshly sentenced after they bury her body

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  405. Every man is a potential rapist in the same sense that every man is a potential murderer, thief and so on. The general principle: the less you know someone, the less you trust them. Men apply this as well to other men. No issues there. However, once you get to know someone over the course of time, through close association or otherwise, that “theoretical potential” drops dramatically, and in most cases to zero, based on personal experience. This reflects reality and human experience. When feminists say “all men are potential rapists”, they are saying something that is both inaccurate (in that the “potential” varies dramatically rather than being constant as the naked phrase strongly suggests) and banal (all people are potential criminals until proven otherwise in a state of pure anonymity, as we often live in today).

    Like


  406. […] bad is it from the males perspective to get cheated on?  Go here for the […]

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  407. Roissy owes a post about Amanda Knox. I didn’t read enough to have an opinion about her, but the passion that she ellicits is something to be reckoned

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  408. on December 7, 2009 at 6:05 am k from blah blah blah, what was my name last time

    K(yle),

    You have kneejerk reaction to inform me that I am a sex offender in a whining self-righteous tone and I am the mangina? Some of my work involves photography and film, it is a ‘fetish’ to record. It is not secret filming, I tell the woman to acknowledge the camera. If a woman does not want to fuck on camera I lose interest.

    Perhaps this makes me a sex offender in your pussy country America but because I am not American and do not travel there I do not care, in my country at worst it makes me a pervert. Although am visiting Canada but it is for family visit and I am not getting laid, will be leaving soon. In my country this is not an issue. It is not like I fuck children (government in my country does not care about that either though).

    You make no sense. What of this do you object do? That it is your job to convince a woman to consent to sex and if she revokes consent you should stop? That you are not entitled to sex just because she showed you interest? That you are responsible for your own actions, responsible for not raping her?

    That some of you assumed I am a Lorena Bobbitt type feminist for proposing that mutual consent is an important factor in sex and that you are not entitled to rape a woman because she flashes some skin says more about you than it does about me.

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  409. on December 7, 2009 at 6:09 am k from blah blah blah, what was my name last time

    The man who said Dana must be non-American because of the logic is probably wrong (although it would explain why her posts are generally incoherent). She began with ill-informed illogical opinions then instead of acknowledging and refuting opposing views with logic she continued to deflect with sarcasm and repeat her incoherent nonsense like saying it over and over again in different ways would eventually make her not wrong. That is the typical American woman way of talking.

    Have you not noticed that she is taking pieces from other peoples responses and adding them to her own creating a clusterfuck and hoping that it will make her look less stupid? It is obvious that in the beginning she did not know what the fuck she was talking about or trying to say. She still does not.

    She is advocating these views without actually understanding them to gain favour with the men here. Most women either come for advice/understanding, or they come to inflate their ego and be “one of the guys”. I do not give a fuck what she says, it is obvious and it is annoying.

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  410. on December 7, 2009 at 6:12 am k from blah blah blah, what was my name last time

    Everyone discussing this has agreed that women should exercise common sense and take precautions to prevent rape but Dana keeps inventing irrelevant, nonsensical issues so she can continue bitching and trying to make herself look like some kind of pro-penis intellectual. It amazes me that she could, without embarrassment, repeatedly state the OBVIOUS fact that if a man wants to rape a woman he will rape her like it is some kind of hidden truth being exposed for the very first time.

    No one here is arguing that the word “rape” or its definition are magic shields that will prevent rape from happening (more nonsensical bitching). No one here has said that stranger in the bushes rape is the same as date rape, just that they are both still rape. No one has said that if a woman has consensual sex with a man then feels bad about it later, or if they are having sex and then she decides to stop it is rape. No one is talking about the ridiculous “I was raped because I am embarrassed to have fucked you last night” feminist version of date rape. Where the fuck do you people think you are, Feministing?

    As someone who speaks English as a 5th language it is hard for me to understand how so many of you have such poor reading comprehension.

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  411. on December 7, 2009 at 6:14 am k from blah blah blah, what was my name last time

    Fuck that is a lot of words. I apologize I have been drinking, did not realize I typed so much.

    Agree that a post about Foxy Knoxy would be very enjoyable. Will stop typing now.

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  412. @ k from blah blah blah

    very few people in this blog have chosen a more fitting nickname

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  413. on December 7, 2009 at 6:53 am k from blah blah blah, what was my name last time

    I WILL DESTROY YOU.

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  414. on December 7, 2009 at 7:45 am k from blah blah blah, what was my name last time

    I will destroy you next September. Leaving for plane back to Sofia now and do not bother with internet there. I quit this blog goodbye.

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  415. k

    you want to marry me and have 10,000 of my babies

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  416. Your post assumes that the rapist is an anonymous stereotype. In fact, the majority of people are raped by someone they know and love.
    I’d say being raped by your boyfriend is at least on a par with being cuckolded by your girlfriend.
    Finding out that your girlfriend is a cheating whore is equivalent to finding out that your boyfriend is a deranged rapist. Any child that had resulted from the union would be tainted by mental associations with their rapist father, thus making an unconditional love of them difficult in the same way that finding out that they aren’t yours would make that hard.

    If you don’t believe that women can be raped by their boyfriends/ husbands (which I’m not even going to get into- if you’re being held down and forced to have sex I would say that counts as rape no matter who does it to you) then how about imagining that you, as a man, are raped by your best friend, the one person you trust above all others, someone that you have looked up to and emulated for your entire life. To realise that that person was a sham is surely almost as bad as realising that your child is not yours.

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  417. The poll here is utterly worthless. Consider the difference in the salience of the two threats to the audience here.

    Given the amount of rage present in the comments, it seems that a significant proportion of men here have been cheated on and are very, very upset about it, or consider it a strong possibility should they ever let their guard down around a woman. The threat of cheating is then particularly present in their minds, and looms larger.

    On the other hand, for women, the threat of rape underlies a considerable proportion of their actions and shapes their lives; it defines where they can live and exactly how friendly they can be to men, navigating between being a standoffish jerk and being blamed for giving him a false impression of consent. None of this is true for men. The threat of rape is then particularly present in their minds, and looms larger.

    Shorter: Of course asking a bunch of shoulder-chipped men who carry tremendous resentment toward women whether they fear cuckolding more than rape is going to have an obvious answer.

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  418. Hi!
    My name is grendlekhan!

    I’ve got the brains of a flea and the morality of a tick. I don’t know how to make arguments, I just come on to a website and assume that everyone on that website that disagrees with me on a particular topic must have had a bad experience with that topic. Why it’s obvious that all instances of rape are worse than all instances of cuckoldry. It’s just as obvious as that I’m retarded!

    That’s ok grendlekhan. You may be a bit slow, but we like you anyways.

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  419. Hi, Clarence.

    If I’m wading through the thicket of your indignation properly here, I think that you’re suggesting that not every commenter here has, in fact, been cuckolded, and therefore that I’m talking nonsense… and also, somehow, that I’ve made a comment on the relative badness of rape and cuckoldry, rather than on the blatantly biased nature of the poll, which is what I’d focused on.

    Whether or not all, most, or even any of the men here have been cuckolded, there are clearly some pretty strong feelings about it; as I said, it looms larger in their minds. If you disagree that the commentariat here self-selects for this, please explain why.

    (Additionally, I’m hardly assuming that a significant portion of commenters here have had bad experiences with women; there are plenty of comments describing acrimonious divorces and using pejorative terms to refer to women in general.)

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  420. grendalkhan:

    Shorter: Of course asking a bunch of shoulder-chipped men who carry tremendous resentment toward women whether they fear cuckolding more than rape is going to have an obvious answer.

    I didn’t imagine anything, you were indeed making the argument that everyone here is someone with a “chip on their shoulder” to woman.

    That might work if this was an MRA site, although even there they tend to be immune to idiots who come on to their threads and insist that their experiences don’t matter or are imaginary.

    This is a PUA site, and most of the men who post here value women’s company – some just for sex, and some for relationships.

    I’m afraid your whole silly argument of composition falls down on that fact alone. This is not the men’s group you imagined it to be.

    I also know it serves y our interest to pretend that the issues is mere cheating vs rape , when in fact it involves a child as part of the cheat. Farther the poll is restricted to men only – does it really surprise you so much that many men might be VERY upset by cuckoldry?

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  421. Mandy is a fucking troll.

    Stop responding to the dumb twat.

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  422. Hi again, Clarence.

    The distinction between MRA and PUA is roughly as relevant to any of what I’ve said as the subtle doctrinal differences between the Dutch Reformed and Restored Reformed churches. Your responses grow ever less relevant, and I begin to question your reading comprehension. (At least you’ve given up 2

    Because it seems to matter to you, I’ll revise a paragraph of my original posting, as follows. It makes no change in my argument.

    “Given the amount of rage present in the comments, it seems that a significant proportion of men here have been cheated on and are very, very upset about it, or consider it a strong possibility should they ever let their guard down around a woman. The threat of cuckolding is then particularly present in their minds, and looms larger.”

    Farther the poll is restricted to men only – does it really surprise you so much that many men might be VERY upset by cuckoldry?

    This is exactly what I said. It doesn’t surprise me that men, especially men here, consider cuckoldry to be worse than rape. I went to some effort to explain why this could be predicted, and explained that this is an obvious result of the inherent and acquired biases of the poll-takers; a simple thought experiment (which I proposed over at Robin Hanson’s place) makes this abundantly clear.

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  423. Pardon me. The end of the second paragraph should read:

    (At least you’ve given up on incomprehensibly repeating back to me what you’d like to pretend I’ve said.)

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  424. grendalkhan:

    I was hoping you would display some intelligence in your reply. Ha! You sure fooled me. Well, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice..

    An idiot who could confuse MGTOW with PUA or even an MRA proper with a PUA is hardly educated enough on these topics to bother debating with.

    However, since I enjoy so much knocking your head against the cold reality of your own cluelessness I’ll school you on a few things you missed:

    A. I said MANY men. I’m willing to bet that if I put the question on AskCupid or pretty much any non feminist space that given the legal facts presented in this thread and the situations as Roissy described them above the vast majority of men would take the butt rape as the more desireable option. Your whole goal is to comfort your stupid little “progressive” soul by imagining that this is a fringe outlook among men. Among men who are aware of things as they now stand with reproductive law etc I’m willing to bet a solid majority agree with this polls results, or at least with the idea that some instances of cockuldry are worse than some instances of rape.

    B. Your argument as to absolute numbers isn’t proven either. You have no way of knowing who on this thread voted and who didn’t, nor how much of a percentage those who’ve been cheated on make up of the total who voted.

    C. I’d maintain the views of men on a PUA site are far more representative of men as a whole than those on an MRA sight or a “feminist male” site. For every MRA there are probably ten to 20 PUA’s and 100 PUA wannabees – and probably will be more in the future as this stuff starts to filter into the larger consciousness.

    D. Who would you trust more on women and risks there of? Someone who has had 100 in their bed and at least a few ltr and str’s or someone who has had one relationship with one woman?

    Now given that the more women one brings into ones life the more likely it is that at least one will cheat, what does your silly “experience is a disqualifier” argument prove? That people who have ever been bitten by dogs are somehow not to be trusted as to whether dogs can bite?

    So to summarize:

    I don’t think your argument is true. I think this poll is far more representative than you’d like to believe. Poor baby, with your poor attempts at shaming language. Chalk your argument up to ” your poll just consists of stupid men who got cheated on”.

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  425. Hi again, Clarence.

    Please try to read a bit more carefully. I’m not confusing the MGTOW, PUA and MRA philosophies. I’m saying that the difference doesn’t matter here. (If you disagree, feel free to explain why the distinction is relevant. Be specific!)

    I’m also not claiming that this is a fringe outlook among men. (I also didn’t claim that it’s not.) I do think that the audience here is particularly biased–again, due to the salience in their minds of this type of threat–but that’s not my central point.

    You seem to be replying to someone else. I didn’t make any claims on the trustworthiness of women, or on the representativeness of commenters here or of followers of any particular philosophy of men as a whole.

    I don’t think your argument is true. I think this poll is far more representative than you’d like to believe.

    You seem to be incapable of perceiving my argument in the first place, much less forming a logical opinion on it. Again, it has nothing to do with whether or not commenters here are representative of men as a group.

    Here, I’ll be more explicit, though I doubt it’ll make a difference on the imaginary me you seem to be debating.

    Roissy proposed the poll (“would you rather”) at least in part as a proxy to describe “which is worse”, which was the topic at hand. There are obvious reasons, which I delineated in my original comment, why men in general, and men here in particular, are ill-equipped to answer the “which is worse” question. (Incidentally and irrelevantly, women are as well, as, again, I described above.) The poll is, then, useless as a method of answering this question.

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  426. grendalkhan:

    Since your first and second posts were so poorly written I don’t know how I was supposed to perceive your argument unless you were counting on my skill in mindreading. Esp when you posted such borgifying crap as :”Shorter: Of course asking a bunch of shoulder-chipped men who carry tremendous resentment toward women whether they fear cuckolding more than rape is going to have an obvious answer.”

    I’ll grant you that you’ve finally came up with an argument that makes sense. What you seem to be arguing is that men and women will see rape vs cuckoldry differently, and that a majority of men might very well consider at least some forms of cuckoldry worse than some forms of rape as most women will presumably always state that the worset evil among the two is rape. In addition, you seem to be saying that despite the polls use as a proxy for attitudes, any poll would be ill- equipped to answer such a question.

    What you then miss is that a poll merely answers questions about attitudes, not philosophical questions.

    What this poll suggests to me is that perhaps laws on cuckoldry should be tightened some or at least the penalties for daring to trust a woman’s word on paternity should be lessened if one would like to entice the majority of men to trust women’s words or to have children or both.

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  427. “What you seem to be arguing is that men and women will see rape vs cuckoldry differently, and that a majority of men might very well consider at least some forms of cuckoldry worse than some forms of rape as most women will presumably always state that the worset evil among the two is rape”

    Well that should be enough to end that pointless debate because you two are both missing the point.

    Point is: Cuckoldry is to men what rape is to women. Thus cuckoldry ought to be treated just as seriously as rape is treated, with similarly harsh penalties for cuckoldry as their is for rape.

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  428. I have wondered for a long time if PUA’s are hanging around with bad women, and this here confirms my suspicions.

    I’m not talking about bad women in the sense of “willing to have sex,” I mean bad as in bad people. Only bad people think cuckoldry is ok, male or female. Cuckoldry is horrifying. You’re not just lying to your husband, you’re lying to his parents, his siblings, all of your inlaws. You’re laying a minefield in your home. You’re undergirding the most precious relationships you can ever have with wickedness and deceit.

    I was a party girl back in the day but I have never, ever, ever run across women who would think this is ok. You all need to be banging some higher-moral-quality sluts if you are surrounded by females who don’t have this visceral reaction to putting horns on a husband. A woman loves her child more than anything in the world; a woman who would let her child call a man daddy when that is a LIE is a monster.

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  429. on December 10, 2009 at 7:20 am the one and only

    “Point is: Cuckoldry is to men what rape is to women.”

    Rape is to men what rape is to women, because men can be – and are – raped too. Except for men it’s even worse than it is for women.

    Cuckoldry is absolutely trivial compared to rape, and has no connection whatsoever to rape. There is no legitimate reason to try to equate the two, because they are completely different and are not related at all. All you sociopaths are trying to do is trivialize and downplay rape to make it socially acceptable (not that this will work).

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  430. Cuckoldry is absolutely trivial compared to rape

    I’M not the sociopath, YOU’RE the sociopath.

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  431. on December 11, 2009 at 11:36 pm the one and only

    I’m fairly certain that making factually correct statements is not a defining characteristic of a sociopath.

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  432. Breeze,

    Point is: Cuckoldry is to men what rape is to women. Thus cuckoldry ought to be treated just as seriously as rape is treated, with similarly harsh penalties for cuckoldry as their is for rape.

    Hmmmm, I agree that cuckoldry isn’t something to take lightly, and is VERY serious and devastating to the guy involved. But to say that cuckoldry to a man is what rape is to a woman is a little….extreme. I agree with the one and only in that “rape is to men what rape is to women, because men can be – and are – raped too”. Is it worse, perhaps.

    Now are you actually talking about the feelings and emotions behind rape and cuckoldry, not each subject itself?

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  433. Hi, Clarence. Please excuse the lateness of my response.

    What you seem to be arguing is that men and women will see rape vs cuckoldry differently, and that a majority of men might very well consider at least some forms of cuckoldry worse than some forms of rape as most women will presumably always state that the worset evil among the two is rape.

    Close enough.

    In addition, you seem to be saying that despite the polls use as a proxy for attitudes, any poll would be ill- equipped to answer such a question.

    No. A poll is not a proxy for attitudes. A poll *measures* attitudes. The poll here is being used as a proxy for an ethical judgment. It is, as I explained, bad for this. I didn’t miss that a poll doesn’t answer philosophical questions; I pointed it out.

    It would, of course, be quite straightforward to consider the question after stripping off its gendered baggage: is fraud worse than violent assault? Clearly, the moral judgment considers the latter worse. (I’m restating a comment I made on the Robin Hanson article, here.)

    Compare a long-term fraud which costs the victim years of work, in the form of lost savings, reputation and resources, with a violent assault from which the victim receives no permanent physical harm. The latter is punished more severely, the victim is far more likely to be blamed in the former case (fraud goes unreported because people are ashamed to have fallen for it; this is not the case for assault), and, by any reasonable measure, the latter is considered to be a greater crime.

    As no movement has appeared around here to stiffen penalties for fraud while lightening them for aggravated assault, it seems that the major difference is that, here, female bodies are worth less than male bodies, and male possessions are worth more than female possessions.

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  434. I meant to say this earlier, but anyway.

    k from ffs, not the other K,

    Why do you consider Mandy an attention whore? All she did was respond to comments regarding her rape. It really all started with Dana asking her a question then accusing her of being a cocktease. I don’t blame Mandy for responding.

    k from blah blah blah….(is this the same person?)

    Your on Dec 7 6:05, :09, and :12 were GREAT and pretty much summed up what I think about rape and this discussion in regards to rape 😉

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  435. grendlekhan:

    You and I both know that “assault” can be the touch of a fingertip. And as you said, fraud can cost victim years of their life, part of their reputation, lots of money, and in the case of cuckoldry even thir ability to have their own child if they don’t discover the fraud until later in life or until after all their resources have been extracted from them in the inevitable divorce.

    That our culture currently considers in its laws all forms of physical assault to be inherently worse than all forms of fraud is really not defensible from a moral standpoint, and , if the general societal attitudes about some of the lenient sentences for corporate fraudsters and the opinions of the men here on cuckoldry are any indication that will be changing in the future.

    As well it should. I’ve always thought the definitions of “kidnapping” and “assualt” were rather broad and probably should have been tightened with “misdemeanor” level crimes added in their place. Same for lots of instances of “gray rape” but that is neither here nor there.

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  436. Clarence, note that I described aggravated assault, which is certainly not the touch of a fingertip. Roissy’s original post described a violent assault involving serious bodily harm. Why do you think that the legal definition of simple assault is relevant here?

    I’d give your assurance that, indeed, you do consider the judgment that puts physical violence on a tier above fraud to be in error more credence if I’d ever seen it portrayed, anywhere, by someone espousing your viewpoint. As it stands, it looks like pointless covering for a glaring inconsistency in your viewpoint.

    Your half-hearted response has no bearing whatsoever on my original conclusion, repeated here: it seems that the major difference between the situation I outlined and the one hypothetical that Roissy constructed is that, here, female bodies are worth less than male bodies, and male possessions are worth more than female possessions.

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  437. grendlekhan:


    the one hypothetical that Roissy constructed is that, here, female bodies are worth less than male bodies, and male possessions are worth more than female possessions.

    On this issue, perhaps. You really can’t draw the data on any other issues from this post. And if , in this case the males here feel the male body and male possessions are worth more than females bodies and female possessions I give you a big – so freakin what?

    And I still think your original posts conclusion was more along the lines of “Well, if you put a bunch of losers who’ve been harmed by women together of course the chips on their shoulders will inevitably make them vote this way unlike real progressive “right thinking” men will vote” your denials and clarifications be damned.

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  438. I chose cuckholdry, at least you get a kid out of it.

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  439. […] unimaginably, it gets even worse. Polls of men have shown that there is one thing men fear even more than being raped themselves, and ….  Men see cuckolding as the ultimate violation and betrayal, yet there is an entire movement among […]

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  440. […] Roissy sees men’s behaviour as existing in two categories: alpha and beta. Alpha-hood is the realm of being a cocky jerk. Beta-ness is acting kindly, having compassion, talking with lady friends as equals, doing nice things, that sort of ghastly thing. Despite having this obsession with superiority, dominance, and control, Roissy maintains a seething persecution complex, as witnessed in his insistence that cheating is worse than rape. […]

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  441. You’re an idiot, Roissy. Having a blog doesn’t change that.

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  442. …phrases used here that talk about all women’s bodies as commodities and rape being the use of a commodity without compensation….amongst other things on this site, ….

    make me wish I was a lesbian.

    Most women I know have to deal with rape and infidelity from men. Men think their ‘animalness’, alpha beta bullshit, is reason enough to forgive them for infidelity, rape, and all kinds of sexual abuse and humiliation of women…good reasoning…If men THINK they get a pass on these things because it is their ‘primal nature’ then I will remember as I go out and date that men are incapable of reasoning and must use women’s bodies as an outlet or else they commit rape or violence on others.

    The animal argument is a good argument if we were talking about chimps, but we ARE NOT. I think everyone agrees that we are different enough from chimps to take responsibility for our actions. I am human and animal and I have free will, aren’t men human too?

    I think I’ll just stick to celibacy and never have children to insure my physical and intellectual liberty as a human being.

    Of course men prefer rape because they have no clue how it might feel, or they dont have feelings. What if you had to have a child as a product of rape, like women all over the world do?

    Cuckcolding is more common than men realize.

    I dont care.

    Men on many of these site have suggested that women submit, DEAL with mens infidelity, DEAL with it if a man leaves you mid-life to care for your children on your own even though you havent been working for 20 years (since they want divorce laws changed), deal with it if men are just assholes and dont love you enough to spend any more time with you than is necessary to have sex with them.

    I dont think most men even enjoy the company of women. So if your wife cheats on you and you dont know it, you should just deal with it…its her primal nature right?

    DNA testing makes your arguments less valid. What a great tool for men, so they can deny paternity which is usually what they do and most of the time its is their child.

    My body is not a commodity. It does not belong to the man who has permission to touch it.

    I feel sick to my stomach reading these posts.

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  443. I’ve been raped before and just kind of cheated on, but I guess I’ll take rape any day over being cuckolded. Can’t even imagine being there

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  444. on September 21, 2010 at 3:03 am relativisticrounds

    The obvious solution to cuckoldry involves finding two blowdown trees of large diameter in a swamp, a chainsaw to cut them with, and another assorted method of your personal choice. Why rely on unreliable courts?

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  445. on September 21, 2010 at 3:46 am Gunslingergregi

    ””””relativisticrounds
    The obvious solution to cuckoldry involves finding two blowdown trees of large diameter in a swamp, a chainsaw to cut them with, and another assorted method of your personal choice. Why rely on unreliable courts?
    ””””””’

    The fact of the matter is there are very few guys who could think of doing this and even fewer who would therefore woman get away with a hell of a lot of bullshit.

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  446. Robin Hanson brought back the rape vs cuckoldry debate, so I came back to this post. I reread the 2 scenarios and I still think that cuckoldry would be much worse, but I wouldn’t have a huge problem with continuing to take care of the child (small yes). Anger toward the ex would be unimaginably large, however.

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  447. If there’s anything at all to take away from the replies to this blog post, it is this:

    Most people are not as smart as they think they are. Just sayin’.

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  448. on April 7, 2011 at 2:22 pm Your all fucking retards

    How about we label both of them just as bad? Each one has it’s own unique cons and implications. I find it hard to justify one being worse than the other.

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