Girls And Politics

What do you do when a girl you are gaming brings up the subject of politics? Politics and religion are conversational buzzkills, no doubt, but sometimes when a girl is getting to know you she’ll be curious where you stand on political and religious matters. Usually, these are weird, emotionally unbalanced, nerdy girls who think that compatibility means you’re voting for her candidate.

One option is glib evasiveness. “Who am I voting for? I’m writing in Ron Jeremy. He’s a self-made man who knows that actions speak louder than words. That’s what this country needs right now — hard and fast.” If your date is a normal girl she’ll grasp your subcommunication and laugh a little while you change the subject.

Some guys who consider themselves inner game gurus would tell you to stay true to yourself and answer girls candidly when they ask questions about your politics. In this way, you screen out girls whose beliefs violate your manly principles. How noble. This strategy fails when EVERY girl of fuckable age shares the same political ideology. Here in DC, if you aren’t a flaming liberal, you’ll wind up screening out all your dates and living like a celibate hermit. (9% voted for Bush in the last election. 1% of those were girls. 1% of those girls were unmarried.) But at least you and your hand will have the satisfaction of sticking by your principles. This is lipstick on a pig game; the outcome sucks but you dressed it up real purty for yourself.

What I find peculiar about people who live in DC, and particularly the single girls of this fine City in the Abyss, is their oblivious penchant to assume you share their politics and think exactly like them. For a bunch of SWPLs that speak so eloquently of diversity and tolerance they have a hard time putting their principles into practice. It’s dehumanizing groupthink, but that’s always been a key ingredient of any quasi-religious revival. The upside is that you don’t get asked your politics too often, since they are assumed. Until election years roll around…

During the last fevered election, I had a number of dates who pressed me for my political beliefs. The matter was of utmost importance to them, or so they claimed. I used to evade. But that sometimes sounded wishy-washy. I tried blatantly lying to the girls I didn’t want as long term prospects. That worked, but then I had to deal with listening to them drone on and on about some pet lefty cause like the superiority of Europe over America or the evils of the wrong kind of white people. I got my revenge the morning after when I turned to look at her, brushed aside a wisp of hair, and tenderly whispered in her ear “By the way, remember that conversation about politics we were having yesterday? Well, I’m a huge fan of the Second Amendment. I love guns.” You never saw such a Hallmark moment.

Finally, I switched to telling them the truth, no hedging or excusing.

“I’m a libertine capitalist. I understand the limits that human nature places on ideology. Politics is not a religion substitute for me, so it doesn’t have much importance in my life. I don’t even vote.”

The trick here is I’ve avoided the typical political platitudes, code words, and shibboleths that would trigger her inquisition reflex. I’ve been truthful in a disarmingly eccentric way; one that naturally leads the discussion away from political posturing into more fruitful avenues of discussion. The phrase “human nature” can lead straight into a conversation about “social dynamics”, and then onto “girls have dirtier minds than guys”. Now we’re cooking with gas!

If a girl asks which party you are registered with, tell her “Independent”. If you’re Republican, you telling her that carries too much baggage, true or not. Chicks dig mavericks. If you’re to the right of Genghis Khan, you don’t have to worry about disagreeing with her — most girls get turned on when a guy is unafraid to say what he means — but you don’t want to be argumentative, either. Arguing will kill the sexytime mood right quick. State your beliefs with conviction, then segue into a different topic. Don’t linger on politics like some Daily Kos junkie arguing the minutiae of what is ultimately bullshit in the grand scheme of things. Keep it vague and philosophically Zen-like. If she insists on knowing more about your opinion of preemptive warfare or the Fairness Doctrine, just hold up your hand and announce you are changing the subject because politics bores you, and it’s a horrible way to get to know someone.

Telling a DC replicant woman you don’t vote is like telling her you led a coup in the Congo to overthrow the local despot. She will be flabbergasted… and intrigued. Such a reaction is only possible when your god is your political party.

Them and us, always and forever…





Comments


  1. There are plenty of Republican women in DC. Some places in Georgetown, a few in Capitol Hill, also the clubs on 8th St. SE, near the Navy barracks. It’ll be Roissy against the Marines…I think he would do better sticking to the libertine liberals up in upper NW.

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  2. on October 20, 2008 at 4:49 pm Turkeybaster115

    As far as religion and politics go, I would thread carefully into those waters. Use the cliche’d line: I respect other peoples opinions, and I am even open to change, however, I am voting for X, or I believe in Y.

    Note: if a chick wants to have sex with you, R&P usually is the last thing on her mind, and is rarely a “buzzkill”

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  3. I was on the 3rd date with a nice girl and she started talking politics. She asked who I was voting for and I replied that I was penciling in Adolph Hitler. I spent the night at her place. And yes, she was part German. A fine, fit babe as well. Still spending nights there too!

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  4. Politics to single liberal women just begins and ends with one issue: abortion. That’s it, that’s ALL they care about. They may pay some token lip service to other issues to fake being well-rounded, but for the most part they evaluate primarily on who is more pro-abortion. Oh, and maybe universal healthcare, but only because they want abortions to be cheap as possible. When I was dating and I would be cornered, I found it wouldn’t matter if I said I was liberal, conservative, libertarian, communist, anarchist, Nazi, whatever, so long as I said “I don’t want abortion to be illegal.” The only reason they get worked up over a guy saying he’s Republican is the fear he’s not down for fetus-killing. Assure her you are and she’ll tune out the rest.

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  5. on October 20, 2008 at 5:10 pm Large Hadron Collider

    It’s easier to say

    “I’ll tell the truth – I vote many, many, times in each election – kind of an election arbitrage of hedges and bets with different weights on each party according to how much they will ultimately kick in to buy me the liquid helium I need”

    but I’m sure that happens to you all of the time

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  6. Roissy, when are you going to write about that scenario when you walk a girl home and it turns out she’s your neighbour?

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  7. Nothing like rich bitches yammering on about liberal bullshit. Going so far as to expect you to concur with their lunacy. Shut your fucking mouth you stupid hypocritical cunt.

    If there ever was a doubt what anal is REALLY good for, these women are it. Toss in some ass-to-mouth and you’ve done yourself some karmic good.

    What’s my name?

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  8. T is right. It boils down to abortion for most of us.

    Maybe you encounter this because you have a penchant for dating infants? I was pretty self righteous and indignant at 21; at 27, I am not downright ambivalent. Do whatever you want, vote however you want. I am more concerned about how I am treated and if the guy I am with is actually a decent human being.

    Oh, and if I can kill your baby…

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  9. Agreed. I’ve dropped the ‘small l libertarian’ on smoe truely leftist girls and it’s never been a problem. The political leanings thing is more of a shit-test really. Some of the more extreme and dedicated women will leave in revulsion, but most of them will stick it out. But this is really no different than the religion angle.

    I do have to say that these girls didn’t get the memo. There was a hot, blonde, overeducated 25 year old, she was a 9. She dug me, it could have been a sure lay. But I ended up blowing her off because she was *so* militantly atheist it turned me off. My regret is that I didn’t buy a priest costume and leave her with a sore ass in an alley…

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  10. I think this must be primarily a DC issue. I lived and dated a bunch of different women in ultra SWPL Toronto and neither politics nor abortion ever came up. Ever. Most girls, even in very liberal cities, don’t really care about politics to begin with, and, even if they do, most will abandon all political principle to please you, if they think you are cool.

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  11. OK but the real news event shouldn’t be the election but PUA Season 2 on VH1.

    How the hell does a line like “I like pickle juice” work? Sounds like a gay double-entendre.

    And once again the same cliched 1-by-1 elimination format. It would be better to see how all of them do over 8 episodes and then pick a winner.

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  12. this post gets to one of the most annoying facets of the hipster/yuppies that inhabit this city, and most urban coastal cities. liberals love thinking of themselves as free thinkers and outsiders, as seeking out diversity. the fact that they seem to freely think in the exact same way as everybody else in their social circle seems to escape them. it’s one of the few things they don’t seem to find ironic.

    i could rant for some time on idiotic girls who take your unwillingness to worship at the cult of obama as evidence that you’re a closet fascist. i could go on an endless tirade about white upper-middle class twenty-somethings telling me that i should ‘care’ more about the poor, or the trees, or the seals, or whatever. instead, i want to point out that what makes this situation so sad is the number of guys who cave.

    every time i see a couple in his-and-her matching obama t shirts i really want to snack the dude in the face for being such a giant pussy. it’s one of the sad statements on what’s become of ‘feminism’. women want their opinions taken seriously, but then go ahead and wear shirts that say ‘i only date boys who (insert pet cause here)’.

    all this leads to a larger question: do women in DC prefer beta men? it seems to me that many women here are so unwilling to have their fragile world views challenged that they seem to prefer guys who just defer to them.

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  13. on October 20, 2008 at 6:47 pm Peregrine John

    It’s because those world views are so fucking fragile. And, as our host said, because they use politics as a religion, which is frankly pathetic in oh, so many ways.

    Liberals haven’t been liberal in ages. Well, there are exceptions, but they’re not exactly the norm. If I get truly pressed for my views, “libertarian” seems to work in general, but I feel more comfortable being more directly honest and saying, “If there was a Jacksonian party, I’d join it; as it is, I have to register my conscience with ‘decline to state.'” Since not a one of them has a clue beyond their litmus test (per T and Lemmonex), shifting to more productive and pleasant subjects is easy from there.

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  14. So are the DailyKos/liberal bloggers guys all sniveling betas? Curious minds want to know.

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  15. Beta is being so dependent on the approval of women (expressed through sexual selection) or men that you’re willing to pretend to be anything to get it. The choice between women or my principles and my hand is a false one. I can have principles and women, and generally speaking, people prefer a genuine anything to a fake. I’ve never found it difficult to get women, and I’ve been quite forthcoming about my politics and religion.

    @12 Lance

    While matching shirts of any type is abhorrent, I think it’s a bit much to expect that many couples would have wildly different political views. People love to point to James Carville or Arnold Schwarzenegger and talk about how you don’t have to have the same politics as your mate. True, but you’re going to 90% of the time. Most people *GASP* are of similar mind as the people they surround themselves with.

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  16. After four years in a fiercely liberal Canadian University just outside of Toronto, I am an expert on this subject. I strongly advise dishonesty. Remember, it’s OK to lie to liberals. They have no souls.

    Then once you agree with her silly views, use them against her:

    “Sexual revolution is so great, women can enjoy sex and relationships without all of those outdated right-wing expectations of monogamy blah blah blah”

    Now you’ve set her Anti-slut machinery against her PC brainwashing. As Kissinger said, it’s a shame they can’t both lose, but I’ll settle for a PC victory (she agrees) or worst case scenario she disagrees and just holds two completely opposite views in her head simultaneously. Take advantage of the momentary cognitive dissonance and whip it out before she comes back to reality.

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  17. on October 20, 2008 at 6:59 pm Peregrine John

    Zdeno, that is bloody freaking genius. (Note, however, that such a person is very likely so used to cognitive dissonance that she won’t notice its appearance.)

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  18. Politics to single liberal women just begins and ends with one issue: abortion.

    I’ve always been much, much more attracted to morally conservative women. I certainly understand Tupac Chopra’s and PatrickH’s thing for Clio 🙂

    Anyway, my interest level in a girl plummeted if I was suddenly barraged by her with impassioned pro-choice arguments.

    That’s not to say pro-choice was a turn-off for me per-se. Rather, I lost respect for girls who had nonchalant attitudes toward abortion itself, not to whether or not it should be legal.

    My view on abortion: it’s homicide. No way around it, especially if you ever saw your own baby in a sonogram. However, it’s also homicide to killing an enemy soldier. I am not a pacifist, thus I allow for possibilities that there are things worse than killing. Thus, in a very general sense I am “pro-choice” as far as law is concerned, but horrified by abortion in all but very few circumstances.

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  19. all this leads to a larger question: do women in DC prefer beta men?

    well, if they do then the beta men are alpha men, because alpha is determined by the ability to get laid, right? God, this is so confusing.

    I agree with everybody above who says that political views are not a barrier to getting laid if you’re genuine and forthright and not an embittered prick raving about he’s being bullied and victimized all the time by the nasty feminazis and evil libruls (so all you “alphas” around here should resist the temptation to do that). Even then it’s the bitter ravings that would be the turnoff, not the politics. Most women could give a damn about politics if someone turns them on.

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  20. whats slwp?

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  21. If your a conservative and want to talk politics with girls, try the strip malls of Northern Virginia.

    – MPM

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  22. @14

    Guys who are rabidly left wing in the anonymity of the internet are most assuredly betas. Useful idiots in the campaign led by alpha men to convince women that sharing the 10% of alpha dicks is preferable to a society based on monogamy.

    Liberal guys in person, however, are often very alpha and (I suspect) don’t truly believe any of the childish liberal beliefs they espouse. They are, like me, using PC and feminism to get laid. That is, again I suspect, the impetus behind the sexual revolution and 2nd-wave feminism in general – a campaign by alpha males to implement de facto polygyny.

    So in short, yes, the DailyKos guys are betas. But that is probably true of anyone who spends any significant amount of time arguing about politics on the internet, present company excluded.

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  23. @18

    Agree that massive numbers of mid-late term abortions is one of the great evils of our time. But I turn a blind eye to genocide and famine the world over, why should this be any different? At least easy abortions makes getting laid easier.

    Also, the aborted babies are mostly liberals, who as I’ve mentioned, have no souls.

    Cheers,

    Zdeno

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  24. I like this meme about liberals not having souls. It needs to be propagated.

    My own pet meme, on which I admit I’ve slacked lately: “Ronald Reagan, the Last American President.”

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  25. @ 14 & 19

    i’m not going to speak to the personalities of bloggers, or anybody i don’t know for that matter. i’m making a simple observation that if women start selecting mates according to ideology, don’t be surprised when men start advertising their ideologies. and don’t be surprised when their attachment to that ideology is primarily mercenary.

    browse profiles on dating sites. read some blogs. there seems to be a lot of women out there who apply some sort of political litmus test to their dating lives. it’s one thing not to want to associate with people with extremist views, but being a republican is an extremist view only if you are an extremist yourself. there should be a very wide margin in which people are able to tolerate other people’s politics. that just does not seem to be the case with many liberal women in DC.

    it used to be said that some men just want bimbos. something pretty on their arm without too many independent thoughts to get in the way. my question is simply this: now that women are stepping up and taking their place in the professional world, are there some who don’t want to be challenged by the men they date?

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  26. on October 20, 2008 at 7:55 pm ironrailsironweights

    Speaking of politics, is there any way the Bald Eagle could be made illegal?

    Peter

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  27. So in short, yes, the DailyKos guys are betas. But that is probably true of anyone who spends any significant amount of time arguing about politics on the internet, present company excluded.

    Well, of course!

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  28. Roissy,

    If you come across as poorly in person as in print when you bring up politics, I can see why it’s a conversational land mine for you.

    Done well, it can be a great avenue to get someone intelligent into the sack. You have to use it to build mystery / authority / what have you, though. Not just blather on about minutia.

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  29. I love this election. You guys have given me the best trick in ages. Nobody here knows or cares the slightest bit about what either Obama or McCain stand for, so all we see is black and white and of course every time it’s like this:

    Ms. Clueless: the usual shit about how Obama is going to finally put an end to the government death squads that hunt black street orphans

    Me: “I actually favour McCain.”

    Ms. Clueless: “Oh? Are you some kind of a racist?”

    Me: “Yes.”

    Ms. Clueless: “Whaaaaaaat??!?!? You’re not!”

    Me: “Yes I am.”

    Ms. Clueless: “Whyyyy??! Why are you a racist?”

    And with Obama constantly on TV it comes up in EVERY FUCKING DISCUSSION I’M HAVING. I’m loving it.

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  30. #12 Lance

    Remember Harold Rosenberg’s quip about the “herd of independent minds”?

    #16 Zdeno

    Remember what George Orwell said about “doublethink”?

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  31. @23 Zdeno: “Why should this be any different”

    Because it’s happening in your country.

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  32. I ask her if she knows what Twain said about American politics:

    “Don’t vote, it only encourages them.”

    Sometimes gets a laugh, easy to change the subject cleanly afterward.

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  33. There’s nothing quite like the intolerance of self-described liberals.

    Gotta love the way they get triply apoplectic when this is pointed out, by the way. It may not equal getting laid in entertainment value, but it’s worth something.

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  34. on October 20, 2008 at 9:51 pm tastexperience

    #29 jaakkeli

    that’s hilarious. thanks for making my day

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  35. The best and simple answer is to say that you find politics tedious. I happen to be somewhat left of center but this answer is better than the inevitable agreement.

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  36. There’s nothing quite like the intolerance of self-described liberals.

    I don’t know, the intolerance of self-described conservatives is at least as bad.

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  37. on October 20, 2008 at 10:59 pm Tired of Smoke Rings

    “I don’t know, the intolerance of self-described conservatives is at least as bad.”

    When the tolerance of conservatives is something that they begin to congradulate themselves about you might start to have a point. As it is liberals have that side of the street to themselves.

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  38. Are you for real??? They played that crap on a loop for a month nonstop. Sound bite nation.

    People need to forget the body language, facial expression blah blah blah that the experts comment on, and focus on the issues instead. Which of the two candidates have “plans” that will benefit the country most or you& yours most. If you are voting for the hope of lower taxes, honey it’s a wrap. Both candidates will have to raise taxes, the real question is, which group will do most of the paying.

    If you are voting on abortion, well don’t waste your vote here either. Women have always had, and will continue to have abortions. THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO STOP WOMEN FROM ABORTING BABIES/FETUS THEY DON’T WANT!!!! Don’t be a fool by allowing politicians to pull you along with their hogwash. Abortion became a problem when women allowed men in on the secret.

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  39. Turkeybaster115
    As far as religion and politics go, I would thread carefully into those waters. Use the cliche’d line: I respect other peoples opinions, and I am even open to change, however, I am voting for X, or I believe in Y.

    Turkey, I like this^^^ and I would imagine that it works well with most people.

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  40. Anon
    whats slwp?

    It’s an acronem for stuff white people like.
    http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com

    This^^^ is the site. There are also a number of simliar sites for every group of people on the planet.

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  41. That’s why it’s worth being around the middle and left side of the bell curve — they vote mostly based on who they think will get them out of the economic shitter, and that’s mostly it. Ideology and the culture wars are primarily playthings of the elite. See here:

    http://redbluerichpoor.com/

    This is one area where college girls are the worst age group — preparing to enter the elite (so they think, anyway), clueless, and too fetishistic of experimentation over what’s traditionally worked in social life.

    High school girls couldn’t be more apolitical, though, god love ’em!

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  42. If you are voting on abortion, well don’t waste your vote here either. Women have always had, and will continue to have abortions. THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO STOP WOMEN FROM ABORTING BABIES/FETUS THEY DON’T WANT!!!! Don’t be a fool by allowing politicians to pull you along with their hogwash. Abortion became a problem when women allowed men in on the secret.

    Are you basing this on your *feelings*, or are you going to bring something like evidence or empirical evidence into the fold? I suspect the former.

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  43. What would you think of claiming to be a fascist at a Jewish event and citing the lack of anti-Semitism of the Italian Fascists before 1938 or so? You guys have given me a horrible idea.

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  44. Animus, I am a woman. I’ve come across women who have taken a tumble down the steps when they were 4 months pregnant. It would be very hard to get stats on this sort of thing since it’s something that most women want to keep secret.

    Furthermore, there are Native Americans & African tribes/ethnic group in which abortion is considered a woman’s issue.

    Ancient Egyptians used a flower, herbs and even such as crocodile dung to induce abortion.

    Think about it, if I was your girlfriend, how would you know that I had an abortion unless I told you

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  45. liberal Canadian University just outside of Toronto

    York University?

    My view on abortion: it’s homicide.

    Abortion today, abortion tomorrow, abortion forever.

    Useful idiots in the campaign led by alpha men to convince women that sharing the 10% of alpha dicks is preferable to a society based on monogamy.

    I personally don’t see the benefit of that old society for me. Marrying an ugly sexless female of the pre-sexual revolutionary period seems more of a burden than living alone and sexless without people bothering me for it.

    I like this meme about liberals not having souls.

    I have a soul, and it’s no different than your soul.

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  46. @44

    I’m guessing it’s probably Queens University. In 2006 there was an article in the Toronto Star about how Queens was confronting its ‘culture of whiteness.’ Which should tell you all you need to know.

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  47. Correct that was actually @45.

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  48. chicnoir, I’m going to be kind: personal narratives are not evidence. Yes, I am aware that abortion has been around for thousands of years. Your premise is that the abortion rate is relatively unaffected by legality. The onus is on you to prove that. Period. Yes, it’s very hard to get statistics on something like abortion in the sense that women don’t want to talk about it.

    Not opinion, not narrative, not emotion, but fact is what is necessary to prove something. This blog and it’s commentators are denizens of Cold Hard Logic, and I’d prefer to call out your touchy feely crappy opinion than to let it run loose.

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  49. Okay Animus but even you mentioned “that it’s very hard to get statistics on something like abortion in the sense that women don’t want to talk about it.”

    I think we are really butting heads and the people at this blog must understand that random sudies/science can’t explain everything about life.

    This blog and it’s commentators are denizens of Cold Hard Logic, and I’d prefer to call out your touchy feely crappy opinion than to let it run loose

    You can but it will not change the fact that I’ve known women who have had abortions right under their boyfriends noses. They explained the heavy bleeding and stomach cramps as a “bad period that month”. I willing to bet that I am not the only female who comments or lurks who know a woman to pull this on a man.

    The male need for cold hard is a shortcoming for most men. It prevents your sex from seeing outside of the lines.

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  50. animus saidYour premise is that the abortion rate is relatively unaffected by legality

    Read about the number of abortions that annais nin had before abortion became legal.

    Has illegailty led to a decrease in drug use?

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  51. on October 21, 2008 at 2:22 am secret asian man

    chicnoir: You can but it will not change the fact that I’ve known women who have had abortions right under their boyfriends noses. They explained the heavy bleeding and stomach cramps as a “bad period that month”. I willing to bet that I am not the only female who comments or lurks who know a woman to pull this on a man.

    The plural of “anecdote” is not “data”.

    Legalization of abortion produced a strongly statistically decrease in birthrate. This strongly implies that the marginal aborter was incentivized by the legal climate.

    Doesn’t get any simpler than that.

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  52. ^^^Women were having abortions before it became legal.

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  53. Why am I the only woman commenting on abortion anyway??? There are plenty of women who visit this blog yet none want to comment on this issue???

    FYI, if you use condoms&birthcontrol or plan b*, the need for abortion of any kind will decrease.

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  54. *if couples use*

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  55. sam saidLegalization of abortion produced a strongly statistically decrease in birthrate. This strongly implies that the marginal aborter was incentivized by the legal climate

    abortion-1973
    birth control-1965

    ???

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  56. Chic, I have commented on abortion. I would have one in a hot second if I was pregnant with the wrong man’s baby…probably. Who knows.

    And yes, I have known plenty of women who have gotten “secret” abortions and hidden it from their partners.

    I just don’t feel like arguing about abortion anymore–I know how I feel, other aren’t going to change. I find it particularly maddening to argue with a bunch of men who will never know the horrors of a late period or a difficult decision.

    This hurts my head is all.

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  57. Reminds me of the time we watched the debate at the frat party. I was the only one voting McCain (this was before I decided I was fed up with the two candidates), and this girl came out to me and said not to even get her started because her cousin was wounded in Afghanistan. An Obama supporter, as well.

    I did not have the heart to tell her that both candidates wanted to continue the war in Afghanistan.

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  58. 16 Zdeno “liberal Canadian University”
    === talk about a redundant phrase…

    26 Peter, aka IronRailsIronWeights “is there any way the Bald Eagle could be made illegal?”
    === Yuko and I strongly support Legal Eagles

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  59. on October 21, 2008 at 6:25 am Comment_I_Was_Young_To

    Obama is half-Kenyan and half-white. He is 0% American Black and 100% American Elite. He is going to use Blacks, when he notices that they exist. ‘Leaders’ like him and Jesse Jackson make ordinary black’s life worse, make racism worse, to gain advantage for their bosses. And their bosses aren’t blacks.

    Do you think Jesse Jackson’s little stunt with the Jenna Six helped black people? Oh yes, Jesse Jackson fought for the ghetto thug that goes around beating up white people. Yes, and white people heard all about how black people were upset that a ghetto thug was being punished. I imagine the white people were filled with very negative emotions towards these black people fighting for ghetto thugs who beat up white people. Jesse Jackson did what he was supposed to do. He made more racial strife.

    There are plenty of black people who don’t go around beating on white people that are victims of real discrimination. Even if the discrimination is actually based on them being poor. Doesn’t matter. Jesse Jackson COULD defend those black people….. but how much racial strife will Jesse generate with that?

    And Obama is Jesse Jackson on steroids.

    He will USE black people. Because that is what he does. USE people.

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  60. Re Birth Control — the pill was first available to married women, widely, in 1965. In 1973 or 75, I’m not sure which, another decision by the Supreme Court made it widely available to all women.

    Oddly enough, there is a demographic echo. Birth rates plummet in 1966 vs. just one year ago, 1965. Again right at the year when all women got access to the pill.

    Neither our society or human evolution is well adapted to our current circumstances — which is only 40 years or less of total female choice, unconstrained by biology/chance of getting pregnant at the “wrong” time or with the “wrong” man, and we are seeing the shake-out now.

    Likely, we will see as a result of that a few guys banging most of the women, and a concomitant low importance guys place on most women, with families dominated by single mothers.

    Cold hard science is the only way to know things, in terms of what works and what does not. “Feelings” only go so far, and it is the signal lack of many (not all) female writers, thinkers, and politicians to “feel” instead of think. In particular, “feeling” instead of thinking leads to low Future Time Orientation, and lots of long-term problems growing worse because it “hurts” to confront the issue, and short-term it’s easier.

    A classic example is women’s desire to stay with hypermasculine bad boys, as described by author/physician Theodore Dalrymple in “Life at the Bottom.” Not only his patients but professional, educated nurses routinely chose violent dangerous men instead of decent ordinary guys because they liked the excitement, danger, high-testosterone, and even misery these men inflicted upon them. Ignoring and discounting the high probability of physical abuse in the future, which was a regular feature, up to and including broken bones, including some fairly disfiguring (broken facial bones). Only at menopause when desire no longer ruled them did they finally “think” (and to be fair, when they could no longer attract bad boys even older ones) and use “cold hard” logic to get out of these dead end relationships.

    Of course, their children suffered terribly and boys often became abusers, girls choosing men like their mother did, perpetuating misery. But certainly the (largely White) British underclass described by Dalrymple, particularly women, “felt” their way through life.

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  61. Okay, I’m the guy who first brought up abortion in this thread. My point was not whether abortion was a good choice or not, or whether we can put a stop to abortions by making them illegal or any of that. My point is that I used to meet way too many women who’s whole inquiry into the political decision began and ended with that one single topic. I hate single issue voters in general, but so many women in destination city let that one issue, abortion, dictate their whole worldview.

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  62. on October 21, 2008 at 8:29 am AmericanPsycho

    God, I had no idea there were so many right wing nut cases who read Roissy’s blog…

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  63. on October 21, 2008 at 8:34 am AmericanPsycho

    T. – I’d argue there are just as many single issue anti-abortion voters on the other side…

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  64. on October 21, 2008 at 11:59 am Patrick Bateman

    Most girls don’t get political on me, and I haven’t lost any due to my political beliefs. I tell them the truth and it just gets them hotter. T is right about abortion. The Republicans could win over a lot of these urban jizz buckets if they just promised to support abortion.

    I don’t feel strongly about the legality of abortion but the girls who get them disgust me.

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  65. @ lemon

    you’re right, and you’re wrong. you’re right in that there is little more useless than a conversation about abortion; little except a conversation that involves mostly men.

    you’ re wrong if you think men don’t know the feeling of pregnancy scare. some men don’t. they’re not going to take care of their kids, so why should they care. if, however, you’re a decent human being with any shred of a sense of responsibility, you feel it when a girl tells you that she might be pregnant. it may not be the same as what women face, but remember that with us there’s a different dimension: we really have no say in the ultimate decision. that can fuck with you.

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  66. More crap…

    The male need for cold hard is a shortcoming for most men. It prevents your sex from seeing outside of the lines.

    And feminism prevents your sex from seeing anything outside the Feminazi Canon. Cut the gender attack bullshit.

    Read about the number of abortions that annais nin had before abortion became legal.

    Let me say it again, in case you didn’t hear it…anecdotes do not equal evidence. The funny thing is, I can find women who will say the exact opposite of what you say. Which brings up another funny point, which is you probably don’t know enough people old enough to have been around before RvW to collaborate.

    Anyway, since you obviously missed it, go ahead and find Freakonomics. Note the chapter and the reference to “The Impact of Legalized Abortion on Crime”. See that word ‘legalized’?

    Has illegailty led to a decrease in drug use?

    Drug use is a habit and recreational. Abortion is a relatively infrequent choice the consumer wishes they didn’t even have to make. Apples and oranges.

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  67. Lemmony-fresh, you can kill my baby any time…

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  68. to Patrick @ 64.

    “I don’t feel strongly about the legality of abortion but the girls who get them disgust me.”

    I am only one woman, but I’ll flesh out the panicked thinking of one of those disgusting women.

    At age 23 I was pregnant. The FOB was my boyfriend, whom I eventually married. I had no parents, no money, no health insurance, no role models in medical school for carrying a child. I carried a huge burden of shame.
    I had an abortion.

    Now if one of my daughters were ever in the same situation, I would support them with health care, money, humor, advice, and love. In 2008, the burden of shame is minimal. I’d be genuinely proud for them to carry a child to term, but would privately prefer an adoption.

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  69. I’m taking a firm, masculine stand right next to ChicNoir on the “studies” and “cold hard science” issue. God bless ’em, of course, but they don’t encompass the entire world, let alone define all of “truth.” They’re one way of checking our impressions against reality. ChicNoir has pointed out excellent ways in which studies miss some facts. She isn’t talking feelings, she’s talking facts. Hey, anecdotes are facts too. You “fact”-centric types show a funny aversion to factual anecdotes.

    Y’all seem to consider anything that isn’t “science” to be nonsense. And y’all seem to want to dismiss it as mere “feelings.”

    Two points. “Personal experience” isn’t “mere feelings,” and it’s one of our big resources for getting through life. Roissy’s writing at this blog is based largely on personal experience, though it’s kinda cool that he drags evo-bio in as well. My experience is my experience — it’s as real as anything “scientific” is. As far as I’m concerned it’s even more real.

    Two: feelings are facts in their own right. Not as in “they represent reality exactly” because they usually don’t, but as in “A person having a feeling is a factual event.”

    Say your girlfriend is upset with you — that’s a fact. It’s as much a factual part of reality as the weather or your electricity bill. What does science make of the fact that your girlfriend is upset? Who knows, who cares? I mean, you could Google and research the topic — but is it going to help you attend to what’s happening at this moment? Time to attend to the reality of your g.f.’s feelings. Or not, of course. But there the issue is. And you’re probably better off relying on personal experience than you are on studies. If studies are part of your personal experience, then that’s cool too of course.

    I sometimes wonder if anything more cloddish and literal-minded than most American men has ever been seen on the face of the planet …

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  70. 67 Kick a Bitch

    Comment of the Month.

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  71. I sometimes wonder if anything more cloddish and literal-minded than most American men has ever been seen on the face of the planet …

    Nah, it’s the Internet. All-left-brain nerd types (bless ’em, of course) are overrepresented in cyberspace.

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  72. Kick a Bitch…I already did.

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  73. Hey, Blowhard, if I grew up in a small town where 70% of the people I knew were married by age 25, does that anecdote prove that most people get married by 25? Of course not. Chicnoir knowing several women who have had ‘secret’ abortions proves nothing except that she’s probably not friends with Bristol Palin. Her experiences are not applicable to the American population as a whole, and it is idiocy to suggest otherwise.

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  74. Screw this legal abortion shit. How about mandatory abortion?

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  75. Remember, women are driven largely by the search for status. A woman is likely to pick her political views based on the views of the highest-status group to which she can aspire.

    So if you’re already high-status enough that she will feel she’s improving her status by dating you, then having nonstandard political opinions is probably OK. If you’re marginal in status, though, you’d better follow the straight Democratic party line or else keep your opinions hidden.

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  76. Thanks Lemmonex.

    The crazy thing is, this was the closet that I’ve ever come to having an argument about abortion. It just upsets me that men have so much to say about what women do to/with their bodies.

    If only women had more say in which men could get a Viagra prescription or vasectomy.

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  77. Comment_I_Was_Young_To
    Obama is half-Kenyan and half-white. He is 0% American Black and 100% American Elite. He is going to use Blacks, when he notices that they exist.

    You only know of his racial mix because it’s been talked about so much. Had you seen him walking down the street, he would be any other light-skinned African-American man. FYI, Colin Powell isn’t African-American either, his parents are from Jamaica. Not only that but Colin Powell’s skin is lighter than Barack’s, as is Rev. Wright and Charles Rangel.

    You can’t tell a mixed race blk person apart from a light skinned blk person just by looking at them. It’s impossible and don’t go around being an ass by asking light skinned blks if they are mixed. Some light skinned blks take offence to that sh*t. I’ve had random idiots ask me about my ethnic background in the past and I take offense to that.

    Furthermore, Arnold Swartsniagger(tp) isn’t white American but if not for fame and his accent, he would be seen as any other white person walking down the street.

    Barack’s wife is African-American and so are his children.

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  78. T saidI hate single issue voters in general, but so many women in destination city let that one issue, abortion, dictate their whole worldview.

    I do too.

    AmericanPsycho
    T. – I’d argue there are just as many single issue anti-abortion voters on the other side…

    I wish more of those prolife Republicans would 2-3 adopt babies instead of making 5-6 of their own.

    animus said:which is you probably don’t know enough people old enough to have been around before RvW to collaborate
    Well actually I do. I have a lot of great aunts and uncles and a great-grandmother who is 88. They told me about some of the not so pretty things women did to survive during the depression and life period. It’s one of the reasons I have not made many of the common teenage mistakes

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  79. It just upsets me that men have so much to say about what women do to/with their bodies.

    I don’t really care about the issue one way or another, but to play devil’s advocate, there are people who think that the baby inside you isn’t a part of your body, but a seperate, living being, and that killing it is no different than killing a post-birth human.

    Now whether that’s right or wrong is literally impossible to say. No one will ever agree on when life starts. But you have to admit that if you do view that baby as a living being, then killing it is pretty hard to justify.

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  80. *blows kiss to micheal blowhard*

    Ah finally a man who gets it.

    Animus, do you have any sisters or close female friends? If so you should sit down and talk to them about the secret abortions that I mentioned. It happens far more than most men realize. It seems like most of the men here, don’t believe that it happens.

    Then again maybe I should stop posting about things that women do. Some of this stuff you can’t find in studies.It’s probably better if men are ignorant about some things.

    Animus, this may not be Bristol Palin’s first pregnancy for all we know.

    FYI, I am not against science or stats. I take medication at times just like anyone else. Before taking any medication, I like to read what the studies about the side effects etc… Of course I keep in mind that I may suffer a side effect that is not noted in the study, ask friends if they know anyone who has taken the drug and had weird side effects, the drug company itself could be holding something back.

    Or worse still, the FDA could have dirt on its hands. Remember the FDA got into big trouble a few years ago for looking the otherway with some drugs. Look it up, there was plenty of reporting on it.

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  81. *Worse still*

    *other way*

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  82. there are people who think that the baby inside you isn’t a part of your body, but a seperate, living being, and that killing it is no different than killing a post-birth human

    Micheal you make a valid point. There are so many ways we can look at this.

    When an insurance company refuses to pay for an operation/durgs that may save the life of a child isn’t that killing a post-birth human?

    Would most babies survive if they are removed from the mother’s body at 4 months? Why if the *child* is a result of rap? How would you feel knowing you are the result of a man who raped your mother? Imagine the life of a child, who looks like his mother’s rapist.

    Hypothetically speaking, what if the high levels of estrogen found in drinking water,suddently led to American men becoming pregnant. I wonder if so many men would be prolife then?

    Until today, I have never had to make that decision and I hope I never will. It’s part of the reason I post about using condoms and BC. It makes the liklyhood of an unplanned pregnancy unlikey. It’s one of the reason sex ed should be taught in schools and be mandatory. All parents don’t have the bird and the bees talk with their children.

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  83. Chicnoir are you aware that I wasn’t even arguing the morality of abortion with you? It doesn’t seem that way.

    And yes, I have known women who have had abortions. I still think you’re full of shit. It’s a well documented fact that birth rates went down when abortion was legalized. That means that MORE people had abortion. Which means some women who would not have aborted became more comfortable persuing it because it’s legal. I cannot even fathom why you would want to argue that point, as even Planned Parenthood uses the accessibility argument in favor of legalization.

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  84. animus, I don’t think I was arguing morality with you. I just pointed out the years abortion(73) and birth control(65) became legal.

    Which means some women who would not have aborted became more comfortable persuing it because it’s legal.

    I don’t doubt this^^^.

    And yes, I have known women who have had abortions.

    No secret abortions, which their SO knew nothing about, there is a big difference.

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  85. the closed mindedness of so many liberals (and women) taught me long ago to abandon any sort of actual “politically” charged/defined conversation.

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  86. I always ask about politics because a liberal man is no man at all. If he’s a greenie that’s even worse! If he’s pretending to be a liberal/feminist because he thinks that is what I want to hear that is the worst crime of all! Omega central!

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  87. “When an insurance company refuses to pay for an operation/durgs that may save the life of a child isn’t that killing a post-birth human? ”

    That is because you have no entitlement to another person, unless you say otherwise.

    One can argue that willfully exchanging in intercourse would be saying otherwise, and at that point you are stuck unless you want to pay damages. Kinda tough to pay damages to something that won’t exist in 5 months, though…

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  88. Benedict, I am not closed-minded. I’ve learned a lot from the male commenters here.

    GVC champ- I don’t understand your explanation.

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  89. I usually too busy blowing my dates to bring up politics.

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  90. @chic-

    I know I shouldn’t even bother, especially since Benedict Smith @85 hit the nail right on the head, but it saddens me to think that you are on the upper end of the bell curve of intelligence and sophistication in liberal circles regarding the whole abortion issue – and that isn’t a compliment. I’m not going to waste my time going into arguments about when life begins because my main objection to Roe v Wade is that IT SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN A CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUE. It is a values issue for the state or congressional legislature to decide based on majority vote. Please don’t waste anyone’s time spouting your head off about how it’s “your body, your right” or some shit like that. Before 1973, no society in the history of Earth gave women 100% of the say as to how and when they had children. We wouldn’t be here if our society’s predecessors had. The availability of abortion and birth control is only possible because our society provides the food, security and medical care to make mandatory child bearing unnecessary. We didn’t have the luxury of being so casual about sex and reproduction for most of human history – certainly not in 1789 when the constitution was written. Roe v Wade represented judicial activism at its worst, because it treated the constitution as a “living document” whose meaning changes with the times. If the founders had thought the constitution was that flexible, they would not have created the amendment process.

    Personally, I consider it a matter of fairness that a man who helps create a baby should have a legal right in certain circumstances to make a woman carry it to term. Women invest the most in a pregnancy by far, and so should have most of the say. But women should not have all of the say in this regard. The Founders would have found the self-centered myopic arguments advanced by pro-abortion people today utterly absurd. They would’ve said the right to privacy should never trump the long term survival of society.

    But I’m sure all of this goes right over your head. I’ve thrown too much of that pesky male “logic” at you. I should be using my feelings more! Right?

    And just for the record, there’s only one reason men would be supportive of giving women 100% of the decision about abortion – they want to be irresponsible assholes who fuck around and leave it to women to clean up the mess. A few male posters have essentially admitted that to be true.

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  91. there’s only one reason men would be supportive of giving women 100% of the decision about abortion

    I’m pro-choice because I don’t want my female friends, cousins, nieces, or future daughters saddled with children that they don’t want.

    They would’ve said the right to privacy should never trump the long term survival of society.

    Saddling women with children that they don’t want wastes resources that could be better used in promoting the long term survival of society.

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  92. If women don’t want a child, they oughta just keep their legs shut instead of fucking some loser. Same advice goes for men.
    Self control. Novel concept eh?

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  93. 92 Buzzsaw

    If women don’t want a child, they oughta just keep their legs shut instead of fucking some loser. Same advice goes for men.
    Self control. Novel concept eh?

    And it would be nice if we all had ponies too.

    Look. Without an oppressive police state, abortions cannot be made prohibitively costly. (See Chic Noir’s comments about abortions without doctors.) All we can really affect is their frequency. On top of that, there’s birth control. So making abortion illegal would not induce the self control you want to see.

    I’m not happy with this state of affairs. I wish women had more incentive to reject “players,” and to pay attention to nerds like me who are ready to raise a family. But I can’t turn back the clock.

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  94. I’m not happy with this state of affairs. I wish women had more incentive to reject “players,” and to pay attention to nerds like me who are ready to raise a family.

    Why? I don’t see anything particularly attractive about having to support a wife and several children, nor is having a sexless frigid wife who only achieves sexual orgasm or basic happiness with alpha males desirable. Instead of tying myself down to a wife who will never love me or truly find me attractive, I’d much rather stay single and and enjoy bachelorhood. If women like players, then let them have players, as most men aren’t missing much in their departure. Playing around with a frigid wife isn’t my idea of fun…

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  95. If you are voting on abortion, well don’t waste your vote here either. Women have always had, and will continue to have abortions. THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO STOP WOMEN FROM ABORTING BABIES/FETUS THEY DON’T WANT!

    Which means some women who would not have aborted became more comfortable persuing it because it’s legal.

    I don’t doubt this^^^.

    Really? Because I asked you to prove the first quote, and the second contradicts it. You can stop women from aborting; by making it illegal. A sizable percentage of abortion minded women will steer clear if there is no legal method. So your claim that people should not ‘waste’ their vote because it has no material impact is vapid at best. I’m not even commenting on the irrelevance of the material impact to those who vote based on abortion.

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  96. Hey, I’m not American and I love abortion, but even I can see that Roe v Wade is the most ridiculous piece of bullshit artistry since they sold the Eiffel tower.

    And chic, I’ll start giving a shit about politicians messing with women’s bodies is when I start seeing women giving a shit about politicians messing with men’s bodies. The latest from feminists here is that they finally managed to legalize the circumcision of infant boys. I’m so fucking pissed off that I’m voting for the neo-Nazis. Too bad even they aren’t radical enough – any party promising to cancel women’s suffrage would get my vote. Fuck.

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  97. Fabian,

    Your logic is fine for supporting your (anti-choice) view on abortion. Great. Now lets look at the country as it is and think about if making abortion illegal is a good idea. Think about the last time you visited Taco Bell, or maybe a Wal-Mart. Do you really want more of those manning the register or mopping those floors walking around with their terrible midwestern accents and smoking Kool’s, whilst talking about how dope that Slipknot show was last night and talking about that rumor they heard that Obama is a Muslin? And then maybe going out to like, dump out your trash on your lawn, or take a baseball bat to your mailbox? Cool, because that’s what you would get a lot more of. I mean I know you need these people’s ignorance to get people like Bush or Palin in office, but seriously, we can do better than this. So outside of the right to privacy decision being legit or not (it is), lets just get real and realize it was for the best. Cheers.

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  98. Rick @ 97:

    The reason those people don’t vote liberal is not because they’re stupid. It’s because for four years they watch TV, go to the movies, read books and read comments on the internet like the one you just posted that are filled with sneering derision, smug elitist condescension and utter contempt for them, and as a result are aware of how you really feel about them. Thus when an election year comes around and you guys come to pander and pretend that you are for the poor and the working class, that you are anti-elitist, that you are populist, THEY DON”T BELIEVE YOU.

    Who is the stupid one, the person with a long memory that can tell how you really feel about them despite how you change your tune when you need something in election years, or the elitist that spends every day mocking a group of people mercilessly and then is surprised when they can’t get their votes in election years? I’d wager they’re smarter than you, at least in terms of common sense.

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  99. T, I’d rather criticize that which is worthy of criticism rather than pretend its ok and “American”, encourage being intellectually incurious, and pander to their ignorant fears and stereotypes to gain the vote, while having a tax policy that is sold as benefiting them, but actually distances them more from the rich. There’s a difference between being elitist and having higher expectations from your population – thats what so many of these neocons fail to grasp when they call Liberals elitist. I’m not worried about getting their vote, its looking like they are finally coming to their senses that they have been lied to and forgotten in the last 8 years.

    I was referring to abortion though, and you gotta admit that we dont need more neglected, unwanted children raised in this country.

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  100. I always try to go to bed with a woman before politics comes up. This way I can have the fantasy I’m having sex with a libertarian woman, knowing that the probabaility is, given the Gender Gap, that she’s not. I’m a libertarian, which means I value reason and individualism; while women are . . . well, otherwise gifted. If you think that’s sexist, I refer you to the work of left-wing feminist sociologist Carol Gilligan, who confirms all libertarian males’ darkest suspicions about women–only she says it’s a good thing! And if I get into an argument with women about politics it almost always turns acrimonious. Where men are used to the rough-and-tumble of political arguments, women (and maybe this is just “liberal” women–I suspect so) immediately act as if I’ve attacked them personally. They also favor the “shifting sands” style of arguing, and the “argument from pity,” although the last one is good because it’s so easily shot down.

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  101. @98 T –

    You’ve responded to Rick as concisely and effectively as I ever could. I agree with you 100%. In the minds of liberals like Rick I guess IQ is the sole measure of a person’s worth. Bigotry based on intelligence. They’re only gonna mop floors, so kill the bastards before they’re born! Sick. Hey Rick, try reading the book “Liberal Fascism” by Jonah Goldberg. If you have the guts to look into the abyss that is your soul, it should be enlightening for you.

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  102. Animus- no quite, I don’t doubt it because of your use of the word some. Please reread what I wrote about falling down a flight of stairs & drinking a special brew of herbal tea. At the end of the day, a woman who wants an abortion is going to have an abortion. There is nothing you or I can do to stop a woman from having one.

    jaakeli saidThe latest from feminists here is that they finally managed to legalize the circumcision of infant boys

    To each his own but I’ve seen the “gloved ones” in movies, they look weird to me. I could never marry a man who hasn’t been “fixed”.

    @Fabian-the “liberal fascism” that you speak of was alive and well when bloggers, I think HS and isteve, posted about Palin’s youngest child. Some commenters said she should of aborted and a host of nasty things.

    Fabian, for some reason my post seemed to hit a nerve. I can only imagine it’s because a former girlfriend aborted the baby the two of you made together. If my *feeling*is correct, well I am sorry that you were a victim of such an event. Otherwise, I can’t imagine why you are so passionate about something that does not affect you personally.

    rick saidI was referring to abortion though, and you gotta admit that we dont need more neglected, unwanted children raised in this country
    I agree 100%.

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  103. Do your job right, and your woman will vote the way you vote! In fact, in my experience, my wife wants me to decide for both of us. Woman crave a natural leader. Pretty simple.

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  104. Don’t be so sure Scott. Women play the weak role because physically most of us are, but mentally we can give the average man a run for his money.

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  105. I just don’t believe any woman can be truly happy being the leader of a household, or in any relationship for that matter. No one likes an ass-hole leader. But a benevolent leader is beloved.

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  106. ^^^^In a marriage, neither person is the leader. The two of you share power. Men as a group, have a very strong need to boss other people around, so many of you like to fool yourselves into thinking that you are number one when really you are .5

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  107. I could never marry a man who hasn’t been “fixed”.

    NO KIDDING?!?!?

    Sure, I have no problem with it if you want to take your man to the vet… IF HE’S AN ADULT WHO CAN CONSENT (or get properly henpecked to half-castrate for his mistress)!!! There’s no justification whatsoever for slicing infant dicks and even less justification to legalize it just to placate the world’s goatfucking tribes!

    And of course, it’s WOMEN who move to make these decisions about boys’ bodies, THE SAME FEMINIST WOMEN WHO NEVER STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT MESSING WITH WOMEN’S BODIES.

    End the vote!

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  108. ^^^^ In a successful marriage, the man is the leader. A marriage requires a decision maker, someone to set priorities, and someone to overcome the eventual daily drama that women create around their lives. I’m not hating. My wife is awesome, hot, smart,…. and well trained (although she barely realizes this). This is the natural order of things.

    I know of countless woman who bemoan the fact that they have to make all the decisions in weaker marriages. They are prime for cheating. They crave to be lead, in most every way.

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  109. jaakkeli- I can’t believe you are so worked up. I don’t get angry when you say you can’t marry a fat chic etc… Besides, that little bit of cutting makes you less sensitive and reduces the spread of STDs. There are studies you can find for the STD bit.

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  110. THE SAME FEMINIST WOMEN WHO NEVER STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT MESSING WITH WOMEN’S BODIES

    Not the government, men

    Scott- I also know of women who complain of their husbands being to bossy and not being allowed to make any decisions. Women cheat for a number of reasons, some of them quite stupid. The one reason that upsets me most is, “because he cheated on me first”.

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  111. Chic –

    …” I don’t get angry when you say you can’t marry a fat chic etc”…. – funny and good point

    Also, as to the marriage thing… the bossy husbands are asshole leaders as previously noted. The benevolent leaders are the beloved ones.

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  112. on October 22, 2008 at 9:57 pm Peregrine John

    Actually, chicnoir, the whole tip-snip-hysteria breaks down geographically: almost all anti-circumcision activists in America are female; almost all in Britain are male. Weird, huh? And easily demonstrable with the slightest effort. Puts a bit of a dent in the “reasoning” given by one set of activists or the other.

    I don’t attempt to sway lemmings or loons. It’s like teaching pigs to sing. Save yourself the effort. You’ll never get them to get past their emotion.

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  113. chicnoir: If some women will not choose abortion because it is illegal, then I fail to see how persuing the ban of abortion is a ‘waste’ like you say. It simply doesn’t make sense.

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  114. @102 chic- No darling, I’ve never been married, no kids, nothing like that. Your comment says more about you than me. I care because I’m the opposite of you – I believe in upholding principles, you believe in your feelings and in helping your friends and the people you like at the expense of everything else. I think it was the poster Elizabeth who said it in a previous thread: liberals think like selfish children, and there’s no getting through to any of you. The day you understand that is the day you’re not a liberal anymore. In the meantime, I won’t expend any more energy on you.

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  115. I know of countless woman who bemoan the fact that they have to make all the decisions in weaker marriages.

    In theory, it’s better for her to make all the decisions, so if something goes wrong, she can get blamed for it. I’d rather blame somebody else than be the one who gets blamed…

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  116. I don’t get angry when you say you can’t marry a fat chic etc…

    By not marrying a fattie I’m not actually doing anything to anyone. That’s a little less offensive than chopping off body parts from people who aren’t old enough to consent.

    It would be a better analogy if I started up a religion demanding obligatory plastic surgery on infant girls. I’m sure you could lenghten legs or widen hips or something. And hey, while we’re at it, nose jobs for Jew chics and whatever Michael Jackson has been getting for newborn chic noires (gotta whiten them before they can think for themselves).

    Think that’s gonna fly?

    But hey, we all know the score. Surgery on little boys to satisfy women’s sexual tastes is just great and men should not “whine” while surgery on little girls to satisfy men’s sexual tastes is utterly intolerable.

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  117. 94 David Alexander

    Why? I don’t see anything particularly attractive about having to support a wife and several children, nor is having a sexless frigid wife who only achieves sexual orgasm or basic happiness with alpha males desirable. Instead of tying myself down to a wife who will never love me or truly find me attractive, I’d much rather stay single and and enjoy bachelorhood. If women like players, then let them have players, as most men aren’t missing much in their departure. Playing around with a frigid wife isn’t my idea of fun…

    “An intellectual is a person who has discovered something more interesting than sex.” — Aldous Huxley

    Not all men find the same things attractive. I very much look forward to raising (and financially supporting) a family with bright and creative kids, with an intellectually passionate wife who shares most of my values. I think that makes for a very worthwhile journey; and the destination is a form of immortality, which is pretty cool too. Beauty is almost irrelevant to me, in comparison; I really don’t need much of it to enjoy sex.

    I know you’re different, and so is Roissy. I would never force you or him to aim for the same goals I do…

    115 David Alexander

    In theory, it’s better for her to make all the decisions, so if something goes wrong, she can get blamed for it. I’d rather blame somebody else than be the one who gets blamed…

    …but c’mon, try to do something worthwhile. You won’t suffer any consequences from blame when you’re dead. Until then, take some fucking responsibility; cowering in fear of negative consequences is a sad, sad way to live life.

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  118. jaakkeli
    I don’t get angry when you say you can’t marry a fat chic etc…

    By not marrying a fattie I’m not actually doing anything to anyone

    By not sleeping with an uncircumcised man, I’m not actually doing anything to anyone. I don’t plan on having any children of my own, so I won’t have any child uncircumcised. I plan to adopt a toddler.

    @Fabian-make sure you wear a condom.
    @Animus-has it ever been illegal for a woman to fall down a flight of steps?

    @DoJ-if only you liked blk girls 🙂

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  119. Until then, take some fucking responsibility; cowering in fear of negative consequences is a sad, sad way to live life.

    I would prefer to spare myself from public embarrassment and shame from the greater society, and from personal shaming from friends and family. Given the choice of periodically reliving embarrassing moments and other acts of stupidity versus preserving mental balance and function, I would prefer the latter.

    Not all men find the same things attractive.

    My concerns have been that posters like Whiskey glorify the pre-sexual revolution marriages, while I find them to be lacking in any real tangible benefits for me, and so far, he’s been unable to explain any direct benefits to me.

    Not all men find the same things attractive.

    As illustrated by my frequent mentions of my niece and nephews in various comments or conversations with friends and family, one could argue that I love kids. The problem is that once you start thinking of the various downsides like the potential to raise kids who will turn into disappointing screw ups, or living with a sexless nagging wife who secretly loathes your presence, or divorce, or raising kids into what may become a world that isn’t a “safe” as the one that I grew up in, staying single and not having children may make more sense.

    I don’t plan on having any children of my own, so I won’t have any child uncircumcised. I plan to adopt a toddler.

    Chic, do you mind explaining your decision?

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  120. DoJ-if only you liked blk girls

    Is ChicNoir the second black girl that I’ve met who admits to liking Asian boys?

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  121. DoJ writes “I very much look forward to raising (and financially supporting) a family with bright and creative kids, with an intellectually passionate wife who shares most of my values.”

    Good luck with that!

    Like


  122. chicnoir showed Flash like dodging ability:
    @Animus-has it ever been illegal for a woman to fall down a flight of steps?

    Irrelevant, but yes. In a case where the fetus is considered a person, this would be manslaughter. If you lose control of your car and someone dies, the fact that you ‘didn’t mean to’ does not absolve you of responsibility. But more directly to your statement, in some societies in history, even miscarriage has been a criminal offense, despite being patently ridiculous.

    But the real problem is your avoidance. Answer the question. If fewer women choose abortion because it’s illegal, how is that a waste for anti-abortionists?

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  123. 118 chicnoir

    @DoJ-if only you liked blk girls 🙂

    I never said otherwise. 🙂 Frankly, I don’t care directly about race one way or the other.

    119 David Alexander

    Given the choice of periodically reliving embarrassing moments and other acts of stupidity versus preserving mental balance and function, I would prefer the latter.

    Do I periodically relive embarrassing moments? Yes. Is it fun? Not really. But I’ve mostly learned to stop caring much about what others think and just pick myself up after such things. (Incidentally, this is why I don’t bother much with anonymity.)

    And you may want to ask yourself, what are you preserving your mental balance and function for?

    But I guess if you’re genuinely happy living a risk-free, ambition-free life, that’s your prerogative.

    or raising kids into what may become a world that isn’t a “safe” as the one that I grew up in

    I dunno about you, but that looks to me like a reason to prioritize kids even more. I’m not inclined to just sit back and watch the world around me become less safe. I’ll fight back, and any kid of mine is likely to want to as well, so I’ll want to have as many as possible.

    121 Michael Blowhard

    with an intellectually passionate wife who shares most of my values.

    Good luck with that!

    Yeah, I know it’ll be hard to find such a woman who’ll love me back. But, gotta try for it before I start compromising on what I really want. My willingness to not care much about beauty should make my quest not entirely impossible, I hope?

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  124. — Yeah, I know it’ll be hard to find such a woman who’ll love me back.

    You’d be surprised at how easy it is to have a woman love you if you put some swagger in your everyday personality. This swagger is known in these parts as “Game.”

    — But, gotta try for it before I start compromising on what I really want. My willingness to not care much about beauty should make my quest not entirely impossible, I hope?

    Marry a girl who is just over your attractiveness threshold, with the best personality possible. Everything else will then fall into place. Just don’t get complacent and forget the “swagger.”

    — I very much look forward to raising (and financially supporting) a family with bright and creative kids, with an intellectually passionate wife who shares most of my values.

    One article by Camille Paglia sticks in my mind. It was back in the 90s, and some reader asked her about advice on picking up intellectual women at fashionable coffeshops. Paglia’s response stuck in my mind as spot-on, and I’m paraphrasing:

    Don’t pay much attention to the ‘trustafarian’ hipstresses in teh coffeshops; focus instead on the waitress. Chances are she isn’t a spoiled princess, and is plenty smart too.

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  125. Frankly, I don’t care directly about race one way or the other.

    You’re my new friend. 🙂

    Do I periodically relive embarrassing moments?

    Everybody does, but it’s particularly grating on my nerves at moments. I’ll be sitting at work, and suddenly, I can relive some embarrassing moment which just distracts me and sometimes depress my mood. Mind you, the difference is that I care about what people think of me, as self-worth is bunk, IMHO.

    I’m not inclined to just sit back and watch the world around me become less safe. I’ll fight back, and any kid of mine is likely to want to as well, so I’ll want to have as many as possible.

    It seems prudent to first make the world a safer place, then to have children. Children don’t magically make the world better, and children can make a poor situation even worse due to the added stress of caring for them. Given the experiences of my own family and myself, I’d seriously question the idea of my children becoming successful adults, and given the comments that I’ve seen at Half Sigma, I’d be leery of my children’s ability to participate in this country in the future, especially if such sentiments begin to spread in the public.

    put some swagger

    Shudder…One must remember that swagger isn’t compatible with all men and their respective personalities. I’m not talking about myself personally, but some beta men can engage very well with game like my Russian friend while other men are just doomed to failure even with game due to the massive disconnect between their native personalities and the Game persona.

    Don’t pay much attention to the ‘trustafarian’ hipstresses in teh coffeshops; focus instead on the waitress. Chances are she isn’t a spoiled princess, and is plenty smart too.

    Of course, the waitress is a dirty prole girl, and the trustafarian has excellent social connections, financial security, and family lineage so one would be more inclined to take the trustafarian as her positives will outweigh her negatives.

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  126. To revisit my (apparently inflammatory) comment at 97, this link illustrates things well:

    http://jamietaete.blogspot.com/2008/07/527.html

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  127. One must remember that swagger isn’t compatible with all men and their respective personalities.

    Well, you can’t be an idiot or a bull in a china shop. It isn’t a one-size-fits-all. In fact, a lot of uber-dorks mistakenly assume that becoming an Alpha means becoming a mouthy, belligerent, paranoid fruitfly. They’re wrong of course. In real life, this erroneous approach results merely in getting your ass kicked, and on the internet a skewering by PatrickH at 2Blowhards.

    The idea is not to become somebody you’re not, but to become the best possible version of yourself that you can be.

    Here is one example of “swagger,” or Game: your girl is overcome by tender feelings, and says ‘I love you.” What do you do?

    If you’re a Beta, you parrot her words back, every time. If you’re an Alpha, sometimes just you cock your head to the side, fix her with a steely gaze, and in your best Jack Nicholson voice, you say” I didn’t ask.” Wait a moment, and grin mischieviously. If yuo do this well, she’s yours forever.

    the waitress is a dirty prole girl, and the trustafarian has excellent social connections, financial security, and family lineage

    The waitress is potentially a girl from a hardworking background, with all the best ahead of herself. The trustafarian is probably a spoiled, entitled nobody who is squandering her family lineage.

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  128. on the internet a skewering by PatrickH at 2Blowhards

    I can’t help remembering that you’ve never received or needed or deserved a skewering by me at 2Bs or elsewhere, PA.

    I’m sorta kinda thinking that you gave me a kinda sorta compliment..I think!

    So thanks!

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  129. No, not me. I’m referring to your exchange with Spike on this morning’s thread at 2BH.

    Like


  130. @DoJ-if only you liked blk girls

    I never said otherwise. Frankly, I don’t care directly about race one way or the other

    🙂
    ______________

    Chic, do you mind explaining your decision?

    DA, a newborn is too much trouble. I prefer to adopt a two year old child who maybe potty trained and who can sleep throughout the night. So many unwanted children need a family that I think it would be selfish of me to bring another child into the world. People who have large natural families are selfish in my eyes.

    Is ChicNoir the second black girl that I’ve met who admits to liking Asian boys?
    What blk woman does not like Russell Wong, Rain or either of the two Asians from Lost?
    _________________________
    animus saidBut the real problem is your avoidance. Answer the question You bossy bossy man. That’s the alpha in you.

    If fewer women choose abortion because it’s illegal, how is that a waste for anti-abortionists
    When women can’t go to doctors for an abortions, they resort to the methods I mentioned above. Those who really want an abortion that is.

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  131. Here is one example of “swagger,” or Game: your girl is overcome by tender feelings, and says ‘I love you.” What do you do?

    Contrary to you, I’d tell her that I love her. Your response maybe suitable for you or my Russian friend, but I’d rather be truthful and honest and say that I love her than be a faux-tough guy. Your response may stroke her sexual side, but my response allows me to be the best possible version of myself and not a carbon copy of some other guy. If it leaves me sans women, then I’ll simply accept those consequences.

    Besides, your approach does admittedly come off as one that a belligerent person will give off…

    The waitress is potentially a girl from a hardworking background, with all the best ahead of herself. The trustafarian is probably a spoiled, entitled nobody who is squandering her family lineage

    I’ll bet money that the waitress is going nowhere in life, especially if she’s over the age of 21. Otherwise, she would have had a white collar job. As for the trustafarian, while she has the possibility of being a spoiled, entitled bitch, the trust fund can provide for financial security, and her social contacts can greatly increase the chance of my children entering elite colleges and hypercompetitive professional careers. In other words, if I put up with the various annoyances that she will bring, my children will greatly benefit from the resources that their mother will bring to the marriage.

    Mind you, in theory, I’d marry the trustafarian, practice I’d marry neither. The trustafarian is of a higher social class and thus, better than me, and I think that I’m “better” than the waitress, and I would prefer to avoid the social repercussions of marrying a working class woman.

    So many unwanted children need a family that I think it would be selfish of me to bring another child into the world.

    My “non-date girlfriend” would like to have two children of her own and adopt one because she wants to at least give one child in the world a warm loving family.

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  132. DA, what scares you more? Succeeding with women or failing with them? I can’t tell if you want to become better with women or if you like the comfort zone you currently have of failing with them? What is your ideal goal?

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  133. DoJ:

    Incidentally, this is why I don’t bother much with anonymity.

    As a business owner, I’d rather not my business and personal lives get mixed up. I sell to businesses. If someone looks up my name online, I’d prefer that they see things that reflect well on me by “corporate-ish” standards.

    If not for that, I’d be happy for folks to know who I am.

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  134. @ 132 T

    As a male friend once stated, the only way I’ll be happy with a girl is if hot one was handed to me with no effort on my own and with no strings attached, otherwise, I’ll never really want to put in the effort in attracting and maintaining a girlfriend. I’d rather spend my time doing the esoteric shit that I like, and most normal people stuff just doesn’t interest me.

    DA, what scares you more?

    Failure is a sign of inferiority and having a girlfriend just takes too much work and effort. So in effect, the comfort zone where I don’t ask women out and go date is more comfortable and financially beneficial.

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  135. One last time, eh?
    If fewer women choose abortion because it’s illegal, how is that a waste for anti-abortionists

    When women can’t go to doctors for an abortions, they resort to the methods I mentioned above. Those who really want an abortion that is.

    So it’s a waste because ALL women won’t stop having abortions? Things are wasteful if they’re not 100% effective?

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  136. Animus, we must agree to disagree.

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  137. Besides, your approach does admittedly come off as one that a belligerent person will give off…

    I used the word “sometimes,” not “every time.” Also, I stressed a playful nature of this, not a belligernert one.

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  138. This has nothing to do with agreement, because I haven’t stated an opinion, and I have zero interest in attempting to convince you to change your beliefs. You’re copping out of answering yes or no to my question. Because we both know if you say no, then you’re inconsistent with your original statement and if you say yes, you’re ridiculous.

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  139. PA:

    Quo?

    Me and Patrick get along quite well. In fact, in that thread we were doing a mutual skewering. In fact, some day I hope for the concision in form and function of lambasting as Patrick does. Why just watching him go at Roissy has been ever so much giggles. Stripped of it’s literary flourishes, Roissy’s response has been along the lines of “Dood, UR gay.”

    It’s been the one reason I’m still reading here after Hope has left. The rest has become tiresome, repetitive, and worst of all, boring. Beelzebub should never pander. Quite sad. It’s like the last scenes of Satan in “The Master and Magarita”.

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  140. Animus, I’ve given you an answer already*. What more do you want. It’s not that serious. Please give it a rest.

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  141. Dude, either you and Pat sucked on some ganj today, or my writing was clear as mud. Probably the latter.

    I was talking about his (and yours, btw) skewering of Aggie, whose type I described in #127.

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  142. Patrick is really good at ripping people apart. He is one of small number of men who can match the best female sh*t talkers word for word. I am sure he has left some of his girlfriends speechless and mad as hell in the middle of an argument.

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  143. PS: you’re the first non-Slav I’ve ever come across who has heard of “The Master and Margarita.” Respect.

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  144. I used the word “sometimes,” not “every time.” Also, I stressed a playful nature of this, not a belligernert one.

    Okay, I’ll be fair and give your approach a chance the next time she says “I miss you” which is slowly becoming our bizarre substitute for I love you…

    Admittedly, channeling Jack Nicholson makes it seem rather belligerent as opposed to playful or flirty…

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  145. spike the gay blade:
    Why just watching him go at Roissy has been ever so much giggles. Stripped of it’s literary flourishes, Roissy’s response has been along the lines of “Dood, UR gay.”

    dude, that is, like, so gay.

    It’s been the one reason I’m still reading here after Hope has left.

    hope was dullness squared whose purse-lipped platitudes and inability to grasp simple concepts like exceptions and rules doomed her to retreat from this little corner of hell on internet. her overearnest and transparently zealous embrace of pat’s sloppily misguided anti-alpha opus as the excuse she needed to finally break free of the dark shroud of my illumination and return to the fuzzy comfort of her pre-roissy prejudices laid out quite clearly for anyone with the eyes to see her cardinal weakness. that you claim you were here for her says much about you.

    The rest has become tiresome, repetitive, and worst of all, boring.

    feel free to stop reading anytime.

    Beelzebub should never pander.

    beelzebub does as he pleases.

    It’s like the last scenes of Satan in “The Master and Magarita”.

    only love can kill the demon.

    ps: see my response to your balls on chin buddy patrick in the “misconceptions” post.

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  146. Animus, I’ve given you an answer already*.

    Enlighten me. What’s the number of the post where you answered Yes or No as to if banning abortion is a waste because it will not stop all abortions? Every time I ask, you simply say “but women have secret abortions”.

    What more do you want
    World peace? Cookies? The abolition of bad thinking? But this was long ago an exercise in futility, because you’ll never admit what you said makes no sense. That ego shit has got you. I can already smell how you want to reply, telling me that I’m the egotistical one for trying to impose my beliefs. Let me just cut you off and point out that I already said I’m not interested in changing your beliefs. I just like proving you irrational.

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  147. Roissy:

    OMG I’ve been called gay!

    How droll.
    If only I could be such a sodomite as Oscar Wilde or Da Vinci, or for that case Alexander the Great or Frederick of Prussia. Why, to take it in the twins would be a honor then!

    So sad that nowadays being gay means being tasteless. Mores the pity that I’m horrifically straight myself, consigned to chase after what for the most part is flighty and thoughtless.

    As for Hope, the problem is, Roissy, that you can’t abide with honest disagreement. You’re more Jehovan than Luciferian in that respect. Rain down the maledictions, smite the betas and the lawyer chicks, silence those threads which displease you.

    Such a child of our times you are sometimes. Convinced you’re a special little devil. Well, you’re fun to watch for now.

    feel free to stop reading anytime.

    Oh, I will, when you have chased off everyone else interesting. You’ll succeed in your quest for the perfect echo chamber. “The flames of hell brook no dissent.” etc etc etc.

    As for now, there are still a handful of people around who make it worth the while to read and laugh. Sometimes with you, sometimes at you. You play only several notes, but you play them very well, still eventually one moves on to the next sideshow. I do commend you for actually being a decent writer. Most blogs of this sort are simply excruciating in their stylings.

    Also, if you believe only love can kill the demon Beelzebub, then perhaps it’s time another pretty little lie drop like a fly in your lordship’s presence?

    Not to mention anyone who’s read The Master and Margarita knows that Satan has nothing to do with the romantic angle except at the very end. No, I speak of what Satan, after smashing the conceits of the Apparatchiks, does at his ball.

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  148. Well Spike, I do have to admit that if we were gay, we would be gay, just the way Roissy says. And if I were a bottom, I’d be one too, just the way he says.

    Of course, if I were gay, I’d turn away from you (too beta) and be wacking off to the R man, the way far too many young ‘uns here seem to fantasize me doing.

    Good to see you around here, upping the maturity level. The kids worshipping all “Golly gee Mr Roissy tell us more about how to fuck with those bitches and betas!” can get fatiguing. All that player-worship!

    Good to see someone with reading skills joining in the “fun”.

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  149. Don’t knock the young ‘uns. The kids are all right.

    They have only come here seeking knowledge that they wouldn’t teach ’em of in college.

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  150. Therefore search and see if there is not some place where you may invest your humanity.

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  151. I used to be literally a Nazi, and that didn’t stop me from nailing several liberal Democratic women who knew about my views. One of them was even a 9 or a 10. But orthodox neocon Republicanism is such a shitty political identity, and the guys who adopt it such complete and utter weenies, I have little doubt they can’t get laid. Nor do they deserve to.

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  152. Ron Paul cured my apathy.

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