Reader Mailbag

I often get emails from readers asking me for advice on game, dating, or relationships (along with sexual proposals from female readers). I’m less than conscientious keeping up with these email requests so instead I’ll answer some of them on the blog.

Email #1

Hey! I’ve been reading the posts on your blog, very good advice especially on the “How to win back an ex-girlfriend“.

Well me and my girlfriend of 1 and a half years broke up a little over a week ago. It’s been killing me inside cause I didn’t see it coming – but now I realise that we got boring together and I’ve learnt what I need to do in the future to make it work.Now right after it happened I did all the wrong things for a day or two – called her, texted her, rocked up to her house with flowers – but once I did that I realised she just needs space so I left her alone from then. I told her on msn that I know she needs space and I shouldn’t have rocked up to her house, and that she can take all the space she needs.

About 5 days later (a week after we broke up), she texted me asking how I was going. I wrote back really positive, she replied saying “good for you, I’m feeling pretty shit, been going out late nights over the weekend, haven’t been getting much sleep”. I wrote back positive again, joking around that she usually sleeps like 20 hours a night, I asked her if she was working much these days. She wrote back “I haven’t worked at all which has made it go so much slower :(, I was out till 3am on thurs, 5am on fri, 3am on sat, just trying to keep myself busy cause I feel like shit”. I wrote back joking around saying that we both haven’t had the flu all winter and we’ll prolly get sick from these late nights, and that I’ve got my hair cut pretty short the other day, and at the end I asked if she would like to go for coffee some time.

It was probably too soon, I didn’t get a response from her, but she called me about 30 mins later. We spoke for about 15 mins (probably too long, iknow). She was telling me who she’d been out with the last few nights etc etc. I kinda kept what I was doing to myself. At the end of the call she had to go cause someone came in to the store, so she said she would call me back. Called me again about 1hr later, we talked for a little again, then someone came into the store, same thing. She called again an hour later and said she’d just gone impulse buying perfume and stuff etc. Then one of her friends came in to the store so she said she would call again.

She didn’t call again.

It’s been 2 days since then and I haven’t contacted her in over a week. Should I give it another 2 weeks before I initiate conversation?

I’m going out with the boys again this weekend, trying to get her off my mind, its really hard though. We used to talk like 4/5 times a day, saw eachother probably every day (it was too much at times, I’ve realised this now, but she was the one that wanted to see/talk all the time so it must be killing her inside too).

What should I do from here?

I eagerly await your response!
J.

Whenever a guy tells me he “didn’t see it coming” I know that means his girlfriend saw it coming six months before he did. She’s been doubting and scheming while you still thought the love was in full bloom. That’s why you’ve got to look for the warning signs earlier and make the necessary adjustments.

It’s good that you recognized your slavish neediness (rocking up to her house with flowers? oy vey), but you continued to do the wrong things even after backing off her. For instance, never tell a girlfriend who is growing cold that you know she needs space; simply give her the space and say nothing. Verbalizing her negative feelings towards you only reinforces them in her mind and sets you up as lower status. Your thinking should always be “She is lucky to be with me” and that way when she starts to drift you do the only sensible thing a higher status man would do: You stop giving her your time and go find other women who will give you the attention you deserve.

Staying positive in your text interactions was good, but you’d have been better not answering her texts at all, or at least answering a small fraction of her texts a day or two later. You responding right away to every text she sent with long-winded and pointless conversation tells her that she is still on your mind and you’ve got nothing else going on. Also, the “I feel like shit” line is a classic female pity ploy to see if she could still wrap you around her little finger, and you obliged. Next time, ignore those female head games or call her out for trying to pull that crap on you.

“It was probably too soon”. Yes, it was. Wait at least three weeks before attempting contact of any sort.

“We spoke for about 15 mins.” You’re giving her way too much of your time. Beta. When she calls after an ostensbile breakup intiated by her your conversation should go along these lines: “Hey nice to hear from you. Listen, I’m in a rush so we’ll have to catch up some other time.” End of phone call.

“She called again an hour later and said she’d just gone impulse buying perfume and stuff etc.” She’s telling you this and you’re patiently listening like you care. An alpha male doesn’t give a shit about the shopping habits of a girl who has stopped sexing him. Cut the convo short and hang the fuck up, your time is too valuable for the babblings of a manipulative ex-girlfriend who probably banged a dude five minutes after you called her.

“She didn’t call again.” No surprise here. She dumped you, and your post-dump actions simply confirmed her emotional decision.

“Should I give it another 2 weeks before I initiate conversation?” I’m afraid you shouldn’t give it any weeks. This one is a lost cause. You’ve dug the hole too deep for calculated absence to make any difference.

“it must be killing her inside too.” No, it’s not. Projection won’t make it all better.

“What should I do from here?” You have two choices as I see it. You can either drink yourself into oblivion and pass out in the fetal position on the floor of your bathroom barely summoning the strength to flick your tongue out to catch your salty tears for nourishment, or you can go out every night, with or without your boys, and strike up a conversation with any attractive women who interest you. The outcome of either decision will resolve itself.

“I eagerly await your response!” Eagerness is what cost you this girl. Now go, and sin no more, my son.

Email #2

SO its like this:I met this girl We got to talking likeing each other
it seemed and she was asking good questions that i
figured were important to her and i did likewise.
There were elements of interest that we were both
looking into a dare i say it relationship. well she
often accuses me of flirting which i think would have
been a good point of lettin her know my interest in
subtle ways i think. anyway, finally went to chill
with her, we were supposed to go out but i got there
and she was just casual. after a while chilling
talking laughing she is alluding she might not be into
relationship just seeing what happens. well i got
comfy with her and i saw gestures of let “get dirty”
which i didnt do. in long term serious relationships,
sex is not much what i want to get into right off the
back. anyway, went to see her again and she was all
closed up. folded arms and crossed legs. are my
chances ruined here? how can i respark. i need to get
her back to the point where she was comfortable and
thought she had something over me, how else woulkd she
want to get dirty. i mean my hand was over her crothc
but i didnt do much with it.

N.

Mistake number one: Talking about looking for a relationship. Listen, it doesn’t matter how much you and her agree on wanting a relationship, talking about it, especially on the first few dates, will assuredly kill the seductive vibe that is a necessary prerequisite for a relationship to happen in the first place. Girls want to EARN your love; they don’t want you throwing it out there and depriving them of the uncertainty that moistens their womanhood.

Maxim #21: Never talk about getting into a relationship even if the girl says that’s what she’s looking for.

If she’s accusing you of flirting, what she’s really saying is “I love when you flirt with me”. So take that as a good sign, and don’t get defensive or backpedal. Just nod and say with a smirk “I can tell you like it.”

“after a while chilling talking laughing she is alluding she might not be into relationship just seeing what happens.” She’s sensing your neediness which was probably triggered by your earlier confession of wanting a relationship. When a girl pulls back, you pull back twice as far.

“well i got comfy with her and i saw gestures of let “get dirty” which i didnt do.” She wanted to get physical and you either missed the signals or refused to give her what she wanted. She now thinks she is unattractive to you.

“in long term serious relationships, sex is not much what i want to get into right off the back.” This is a common misperception about sexual dynamics. Holding back will not ensure the development of a relationship, and getting physical early will not kill the chances of a relationship happening. In fact, just the opposite. Early, passionate sex is often the prelude to amazing long term relationships. How could it be otherwise when the two of you are highly attracted to each other?

“anyway, went to see her again and she was all closed up. folded arms and crossed legs.” You weren’t physical and you talked about a romantic relationship with her before you fucked her. What did you expect when you play the part of the girl? Your job as a man is to get into her panties, sooner rather than later. Leave the relationship hyperventilating to the girls.

“are my chances ruined here?” Yes. “how can i respark.” Re-woman.

“i mean my hand was over her crotch but i didnt do much with it.” What, were you using her crotch as an armrest? If she’s letting you do that, your next step should have been the bedroom. Epic fail.

***

I hope my Dr. Phil impersonation has been helpful. Reader Mailbag will be a regular feature here at Le Chateau.





Comments


  1. pelt

    Like


  2. hilarious in a mildy dark way

    thanks

    Like


  3. She wanted to get physical and you either missed the signals or refused to give her what she wanted. She now thinks she is unattractive to you.

    Doubtful. That would make her more attracted. What she thinks is that he’s a neutered pussy. Females instantly lose respect for men who fail to pounce on good offers. At least when the reason is obviously timidness and lack of assertiveness (which are often cloaked in bullshit like “in long term serious relationships,
    sex is not much what i want to get into right off the back”).

    Like


  4. 25 years of watching humans do the mating ritual and it repeats like a scratch in a vinyl record: The “fixation with one woman” issue that we carry from when we were small tribes roaming around the plains of Africa. Like women, we keep executing 10-million year old programs.

    Here’s a Guapo maxim to complement Roissy’s: One shot per woman per lifetime.*

    It will save you sooooo much grief. Trust me. I’m older. I know.

    * There is one exception to this. Where your status is so much higher that the girl repeatedly goes to pieces around you regardless of what you do. In which case, keep her on the side to have the base of 1 as you go power-fuck the Hotts™.

    Like


  5. Good stuff. I’ve learned the hard way that if a bitch you’ve been working with isn’t into you anymore there isn’t much you can do to change it. Quickly & quietly move on to the next one. The sooner you get some strange, the easier it gets.

    kick a bitch

    Like


  6. on July 21, 2008 at 12:14 pm Patrick Bateman

    #1
    I would never grant a girl the privilege of having me again if she was dumb enough to break up with me in the first place. I might fuck her again, but never anything serious.

    Like


  7. Early sex is key for two reasons.

    1. It ends the bullshit parade. You can stop gaming and relax. But note that you’re going to need to keep a base level of game going at all times. Attraction is a small flame that needs tendering.

    2. Women feel more bonded to you after sex. It releases hormones, oxytocin I’m sure, that put you on the VIP list for her attention. Don’t. Kid. Yourself. Until you’ve had sex, you’re nothing to her. And you have to move fast, competitors are always circling. You could be the sweetest guy in the world, but if you don’t have sex with her, and then she does have sex with some violent welfare bum, for example, then she will always care more for Mr Bum than you. It’s biology. This is why Roissy says it’s better to be over-physical than under-physical at the beginning.

    Emailer 1 is on the right road. Go out with your buddies. Forget about her.

    Like


  8. “Staying positive in your text interactions was good, but you’d have been better not answering her texts at all, or at least answering a small fraction of her texts a day or two later.”

    Seriously, do not answer. She is looking for you to validate her. I think it is hard for men to ignore the texts because they crave the attention just as much as women do. Trust me though, you are not teaching her a lesson when you respond…she is not going to suddenly come crawling back.

    Like


  9. I swear, Lemmonex, you REALLY make me want to come plunder that booty. You’re newly single now aren’t you?

    That’s right, get yo ass in the puddin baby…

    Like


  10. I agree with El Guapo. One shot per woman per lifetime. Once she leaves you, it means that whatever it is that had attracted her to you in the first place, has died.

    She still might come back to you for some reason or another. Maybe you’ll look like you’ve moved on and you’re seen with prettier girls. Maybe her girlfriends will say that she let a good one go. Maybe she needs you to fill her time until she finds a fresh new boyfriend. Or she’s flakey.

    But even if she does come back, she’ll never be capable of loving you. At that point, her being with you will be very tenuous.

    Once she leaves you and comes back, there is no possibility of a long-term relationship or marriage. She won’t respect you. She’ll have the “dead eyes” when talking with you. Affection will be non-existant and sex will be mechanical. Her moods will be as bad as you’ll let her get away with. And then she’ll leave you anyway.

    It’s like that Runaway Bride story from Georgia a few years ago. A man’s fiancee ran off by ineptly faking her own abduction. She was hauled back with some misdemeanor charges and her fiancee took her back. He then went on national television explaining why he took her back and how wonderful she is. And then she left him again.

    Once it’s over, it’s over.

    Like


  11. Sebastian Flyte is completely right. Women by nature bond to the men they have sex with, there are some hormonal mechnisms involved. Specially teen girls tend to strongly bond to their lovers, the younger they are, the stronger the bond will be. Having sex rather soon is quiet a good idea.
    Really, Sebastian Flyte nailed it.

    Like


  12. I hope you’re aware that you are giving advice to teens left back more times than a quadraplegic in a 100 meter sprint.

    Guys its not just how early you have sex with her its how well you do it.

    Like


  13. “Also, the “I feel like shit” line is a classic female pity ploy to see if she could still wrap you around her little finger, and you obliged. Next time, ignore those female head games or call her out for trying to pull that crap on you.”

    I think what she was REALLY saying here is that she felt like shit. Period. But your reptilian brain then just can’t resist going into paranoid overdrive to try to conjure up all the hidden intentions and deep dark manipulating evils of her twisted female mind. Roissy, once again, you’ve proven yourself to be all brain and no heart. Why don’t you try forming a few pathways between the two?

    The guy here may have been a little too sentimental, a little too victim….whatever, but you are not his best guidance, that is for sure. But then he asked you, so he is in fact asking for it. Your brilliant solution to his angst is to teach him how to be a better manipulator. Why don’t you just write a book, “The Rules for Men”? Or are you working on it?

    Like


  14. DF- I’d go further. It’s not just the sex. It’s your attitude too. You could be John Holmes and Energizer Bunny in one, but if you act like a needy insecure wuss, she won’t bond with you.

    Like


  15. Females instantly lose respect for men who fail to pounce on good offers.

    Made that mistake in my past, check.

    I’ve learned the hard way that if a bitch you’ve been working with isn’t into you anymore there isn’t much you can do to change it.

    Made that mistake in my past, check.

    Until you’ve had sex, you’re nothing to her.

    Made that mistake in my past, check.

    Trust me though, you are not teaching her a lesson when you respond…she is not going to suddenly come crawling back.

    Made that mistake in my past, check.

    One shot per woman per lifetime. Once she leaves you, it means that whatever it is that had attracted her to you in the first place, has died.

    Made that mistake in my past, check.

    Like


  16. PA, yes. no argument there but that’s a well established point.

    Like


  17. Roissy, you’ll be glad to know that it’s getting more and more difficult to read your passive aggressive shit and most of the posters here such puerile idiots that it’s hard to take. LOL The reason I’ve showed up again? Morbid curiosity.

    Like


  18. Ryan–cannot wait! Sounds like a fun way to spend a Monday night.

    Sara, in all honesty, why comment then? Over and over and over again? Something tells me Roissy isn’t crying over your disapproval and your comments. Everyone here gets you don’t like him…It is fine to disagree, but your commentary bores me.

    Like


  19. Made that mistake in my past, check.

    We all have, dude. As I said earlier, the younger guys who are growing up with the Internet and have access to material like Roissy’s, have no idea how lucky they are.

    For many guys, young love was like groping one’s way through a cave without a flashlight and with a bad map.

    Hopefully most of us had figured out the errors of our ways not too much after our mid-20s.

    Like


  20. Early sex, Additional.

    Not only are hormones released that bonds her to you, but also, backwards rationalisation works in your favour. Women aren’t very rational, but they love backwards rationalising. If a woman has sex with you, she will usually backwards rationalise that it was the right thing to do, even if at the time, logically, it made no sense – ie if you’re a penniless bum.

    Use backwards rationalisation to your advantage. If a woman doesn’t have sex with you when the moment presented, because you didn’t go for it, she will backwards rationalise ‘thank god i didn’t sleep with him, it was the right thing to do.’ Don’t be that guy.

    Like


  21. If a woman says no to immediate sex with a man, it could be because she wants to see if your mutual attraction has any staying power. She could also want to “save herself” for marriage. If what you want is a woman who has not – as Roissy once mocked – made every orifice available to whoever asked her, if what you want is someone interested in a committed relationship, you might do well with this type of woman. But a word of caution: even if you’re looking for a good girl in the old-fashioned sense, you mustn’t be a wuss in your pursuit, and you must be open and frank but not needy and desperate about your sexual interest in her, or else, as Roissy says, she’ll lose respect for you. I’m sure this is difficult to pull off, but I don’t think it’s impossible.

    Clio

    Like


  22. 18 Lemmonex

    “Sara, in all honesty, why comment then? ”

    Why indeed? Perhaps I feel a civic duty to provide a fresh outlook! LOL

    “Roissy isn’t crying over your disapproval”

    I am definitely crying over THAT.

    Like


  23. Sara:
    “The guy here may have been a little too sentimental, a little too victim….whatever, but you are not his best guidance, that is for sure. ”

    Cool beans.

    Ok. So what/who would you recommend ? Let’s take this situation…you have two male friends who are going through what these posters are going through…
    What would your recommendations for these guys be ?

    Some poetry?
    Maybe he could… you know…show up at her house with flowers…take her to her favorite restaurant..and beg her to take him back?

    Wow…I’m certain that will work!

    Should he wallow in helplessness, despair and loneliness…as punishment…for the temerity of letting his “soulmate” get away ?

    The reason why there are so many guys chiming in here…is because we guys have all experienced what e-mails one and two are going through.

    And we have realized what works and what doesnt.

    Like


  24. If a man is looking for a wife he should look for a young teen virgin, make love to her and marry her. The worst thing a man can do is go for a 30 year old born again virgin, who was gangbanged in her twenties and now refuses to give sex until marriage.

    Like


  25. #21 Clio
    I’m sure this is difficult to pull off, but I don’t think it’s impossible.

    No, it’s not impossible, in the same way that doing a backflip on a balance beam isn’t impossible — it’s just very difficult, requiring practice, concentration, and no small amount of natural talent to pull off.

    #10 PA, I agree with you — it’s usually impossible to re-spark attraction, and even if it is, the investment in time and effort is so much greater than simply attracting a new girl that it’s not really worth it — but the runaway bride case isn’t a great example. That woman was just plain crazy. There’s nothing you can do for crazy.

    As for the post itself… it was great. Well done, Roissy.

    Like


  26. What would your recommendations for these guys be ?

    Easy. Stand outside her window at 1AM and blast Peter Gabriel’s “In Your Eyes” from a boombox. Wear a thrift-store trenchcoat and have the saddest doe-eyes expression on your face. Then, she’ll see what a sensitive guy you are and fall in love with you.

    Like


  27. @26 PA:
    LOL. Fantastic!

    Clio:
    “But a word of caution: even if you’re looking for a good girl in the old-fashioned sense, you mustn’t be a wuss in your pursuit, and you must be open and frank but not needy and desperate about your sexual interest in her, or else, as Roissy says, she’ll lose respect for you”

    Thanks.

    Like


  28. HA HA HA HA,

    Lemmy just bitch slapped sara making her look like the dumb cunt that she is. Sara pick up your fucking face, it’s on the floor

    “Why indeed? Perhaps I feel a civic duty to provide a fresh outlook! LOL”

    You’re saying the same shit over and over again so how is it a fresh outlook, even when Lemmy just told you its boring and true story she’s not the only one

    Like


  29. Guapo: Well Said. One Shot, One Woman, per lifetime.

    I agree completely with Roissy’s point about once a woman loses attraction for you: it’s gone. Collect whatever is left of your ego and honor, wish her the best, and MOVE ON. That’s not to say it’s easy or you won’t want to call/txt her. It will hurt and you will want to contact her. But she’s gone. She’s not going to think of you for second while she’s banging the next guy, so you’ve got to move on yourself.

    As Peter said, been there, done that. And I learned my lesson.

    Like


  30. The only time I can think of that I saw a woman returning to the guy and remaining with him is among 30+ couples, when she figures out that she’s better-off financially by not leaving him.

    But it’s still a cold and loveless union.

    Like


  31. “What should I do from here Roissy?” You have two choices as I see it. You can either drink yourself into oblivion and pass out in the fetal position on the floor of your bathroom barely summoning the strength to flick your tongue out to catch your salty tears for nourishment, or you can go out every night, with or without your boys, and strike up a conversation with any attractive women who interest you. The outcome of either decision will resolve itself.

    I 2nd this, apart from the “without your boys” piece.

    Never had any success when out and a woman asks “so are you out here alone” “yes”. Seems like females internal alarm goes off, and they begin thinking “this guy isn’t likable, social, and/or popular.”

    I have way more success if I go out with 3-4 guys who all have at least some game, as we will work as a team.

    Thoughts from others on going out alone? Anyone had alot of success?

    Like


  32. sara,

    i can understand how you may feel reading some of the comments, but when assessing roissy, please remember: if men followed women’s advice on how to relate to women… well, noone would ever get laid.

    what kind of world woud that be? everyone would be too busy taking their time and assessing their feelings and not behaving too rashly. in short, it would be as if the whole world became like most of washington, DC. and, sara, nobody wants that.

    Like


  33. I’ve had some modest success on week nights at favorite local hangouts when I stop by for a beer or two, strike up a conversation, and get a phone number. Because I’m not really making a night of it, I’m just a friendly neighborhood face.

    On at least one occasion, however, I went to a bar to just watch football and be alone and I ended up having a successful evening, totally unexpected.

    Like


  34. 23 Dracian

    The guy is being too passive, roissy is telling him to be passive aggressive which is far worse in my opinion. It’s far worse for our beloved “society”. It’s extremely immature and destructive. At least the passive guy is being real.

    Men for some inexplicable reason now have a monopoly on passive aggression. Why? Because they are afraid of women and afraid to deal with them assertively/directly. Granted, I am too aggressive, and need to learn to be more assertive. Why? It simply takes less energy and gets better results. People are addicted to drama and then complain about it.

    I’m amazed that more of the posters here don’t see roissy as I do, but as Lemmonex so accurately pointed out; they are simply not wasting their time here at all.

    Like


  35. Made that mistake in my past, check.

    We all have, dude. As I said earlier, the younger guys who are growing up with the Internet and have access to material like Roissy’s, have no idea how lucky they are.
    For many guys, young love was like groping one’s way through a cave without a flashlight and with a bad map.

    Absolutely.

    Back in the pre-Internet days there were books of the how-to-pick-up-chicks variety available, but like all books they suffered from the fact that they were a one-way form of communication. The authors could impart information to readers, but there was no easy way for the readers to ask questions or to share thoughts among themselves. You need an internet forum with comments in order to make this questioning and information-sharing workable.

    Of course you could discuss “women issues” in person with other men, but that had two big drawbacks: (1) even the most social of people tend to have only a relatively few close confidants with whom they can discuss potentially embarassing issues, and (2) because like often associates with like, your friends might well have been just as clueless as you were. Some guys would have an older brother or other relative who would impart valuable tips, but that wasn’t common and there was nothing you could do if you weren’t one of the lucky guys.

    Like


  36. Sara, here’s my challenge to you: top Roissy’s advice to these two guys. I’m talking concrete, specific advice, not some tired cliches like “be genuine” or “follow your heart” or other vague emotional crap. Top Roissy’s advice giving some specific advice or shut the fuck up. You only come on here to heckle Roissy but I’ve yet to see you offer tangible alternatives outside of the vague and tired “be yourself”

    Like


  37. on July 21, 2008 at 3:12 pm SeaFighter HSV

    Ryan, back off Lemmonex. I plan to make her Mrs. SeaFighter HSV. Our children would most likely be Visby class corvettes.

    Like


  38. Sara:
    “The guy is being too passive, roissy is telling him to be passive aggressive which is far worse in my opinion. It’s far worse for our beloved “society”. It’s extremely immature and destructive. ”

    Think of it as a transition.

    1. Passive : Actively doing nothing.

    2. Passive Aggressive: Realizing that doing nothing is ineffectual…and actively trying to change ineffective action to effective action.

    3. Aggressive: Conscienciously going after what you want.

    4. Competent: Unconscienciously going after what you want.

    “At least the passive guy is being real.”

    I’m sure that gives the e-mail poster GREAT consolation that the suffering that he must endure is “GOOD FOR SOCIETY”.

    I’m sure his reward for this suffering is coming…any second now.

    “Men for some inexplicable reason now have a monopoly on passive aggression.”

    Baseless. As in not based in facts.

    “Granted, I am too aggressive, and need to learn to be more assertive. Why? It simply takes less energy and gets better results”

    Again, this comes with practice…or else you wouldn’t need to learn it.

    Like


  39. I think sara needs my fat cock in her ass. I bet that’s what she’s missing…

    Sara, baby, sweetheart… call me. I’ll take care of you 😉

    Like


  40. What I can recall from my adolescence and early 20s in pre-internet days is a conflict of messages without a trustworthy arbiter.

    First, there were your own innate instincts. In my own experience, I was passably “alpha” with girls who liked me but I was only slightly attracted to. I’m guessing that this was my own default mode. But when I dated a girl I was really into, I’d override this by “realizing” that she is special and should be respected.

    This, of course, was society’s teaching: adult females in my life, teachers, pop culture. Don’t forget how wuss pop music was during the 80s.

    It’s time to break into song. Together, everyone:

    What did you think / I would do at this moment
    When you’re standing before me / With tears in your eyes
    Tryin’ to tell me that you / Have found you another
    And you just don’t love me no more.

    How could I hurt you / When, darling, I love you
    If you’d stay, I’d subtract twenty years from my life
    I’d fall down on my knees
    Kiss the ground you walk on
    If I could just hold you again

    Then, there was literature on the subject, but like Peter says, it was one-way. Plus, I syspect those authors reecommended approaches that lacked the methodology of today’s Game or The System, and their effectiveness was hit-and-miss.

    Like


  41. on July 21, 2008 at 3:53 pm Patrick Bateman

    Gannon
    The worst thing a man can do is go for a 30 year old born again virgin, who was gangbanged in her twenties and now refuses to give sex until marriage.

    So I’m not the only one who noticed this. It seems that “I’m a born again Christian” is chick slang for “I used to be a filthy whore but I expect you to treat me like a princess and take care of these bastard kids I have. And I won’t tell you about the herpes until your cock has already been in my mouth”. These bitches don’t deserve to be loved.

    Like


  42. @41

    There’s nothing wrong with an experienced woman if she is psychologically sane. The problem with the born-again virgin® tagline is that it is an impossibility both psychologically and physically — and any woman attempting it is trying to recapture an innocence long gone.

    The question is Why?. It’s immaterial to the male and if disease-free the girl will undoubtedly be magnificent in bed.

    So this translates to massive regrets on the female side which means sex-as-trauma and you don’t want any piece of that can of worms.

    Like


  43. 36 T

    My advice to this guy would be far less drama producing, sexy, and ego enhancing. It would not be ‘learn these scripts’, ‘model this attitude’, ‘resist your emotions’, ‘resist her emotions’, ‘act like you don’t give a shit’,…..blah, fucking blah, fucking blah. It would take a lot more than some stupid MTV worthy “Real Life” bullshit It would involve years of inner work, taking an INNER journey (and I just lost 99.99% of you on that one). I’ve posted some links here of various teachings and methods that have worked wonders for me. I’ve spent my whole life trying to wake up and take responsibility for my life, my health, my happiness, my finances….etc., etc., etc.

    There is not stupidly easy way! There is no “MYSTERY” idiot that is going to lead you to paradise in your dealings with women! Grow up! Wake up! It’s not easy. The whole world is asleep. There is no pill or formula. Like I said, I’ve posted more than a few links here which have been ignored or derided and on extremely rare occasionally one lone person has shown vague interest

    So, my deepest apologies, but if you want to use cliches, formulas, a few sentences here and there, it ain’t going to make much difference, except possibly make matters worse. I could say this; trust is key for anyone. The girl in this scenario does not trust the boy in this scenario to be strong for her, but she’s wanting real strength, not pseudo strength; passive aggressive bullshit aka roissy.

    38 Dracian

    Passive Aggressive is not a great stepping stone to assertive. Aggression would be better than that.

    Like


  44. And on second thought, the more sobering aspect of Born-Again Virgin® is the explicit realization is that some women are damaged goods and cannot be reclaimed. It’s just a sociological accident that the women self-tag with a label that warns us what they are about in an advertising-went-horribly-wrong way.

    I’m sure the female contingent here will be all over this point defending their metaphorical sister, but I’m afraid the conclusion is inescapable. Not wanting to start a flame war obviously…

    Like


  45. 44: Why would anyone defend such an odd self-reference? Do women actually refer to themselves this way?

    I’ve only ever heard the phrase “born-again virgin” uttered in wry dismay by women who hadn’t had sex in a long time due to circumstance or lack of opportunity, not some deliberate, late-onset sense of propriety. Never heard of it as a source of pride.

    Like


  46. @45

    You don’t get out much do you?

    Sorry. Couldn’t resist the jibe.

    Believe me, as I searched first in the 35-yr +/- 2 yr dating pool I met scores of women that labeled themselves that way. Man o man. A little digging showed so much self-recrimination and regret to seriously border on needing professional help.

    In part feminism gave women sexual freedom, but for many I suspect it was sex disjointed from deeper romance, and it left its toll on these women.

    Prior to The Pill, these women would most likely have been multi-parity breeders in strong family settings. Just a thought.

    Like


  47. “born-again virgin”
    It’s an expression used by thirty something ex whores recently converted Christian women who are used and worn and are looking for a Goog Christian Man who fill feed her ever widening ass and ilegitimate brat(s).

    Like


  48. @43 My one drive-by shot before I go work.

    Sara,

    Unfortunately, whether it is Mystery or some other pick-up-artist with a generalized system that works, the unavoidable aspect is that it works. Women are running an old, old, algorithm and if you seamlessly waltz thru the checklist they tumble into bed and into love if that’s where one wants to head.

    In my misspent 25-35 there’s no question I was running a modified Mystery Method suited to my physical and psychological strengths. And I got there the classical way, crashing and burning across ages 15-22 with increasing success with women. Once I realized women rationalize their behavior, that their reasons, however tightly logical to them, are nothing but evanescent in-the-moment justifications for extreme behavior, the door to success was opened. Repeated testing by men all over the planet confirms it.

    And what does “real strength” mean at the dawn of the 21st century? As if you really know or can judge that in a man you’ve met or that you even have spent the prototypical 8 hours with before succumbing to the sexual desires. And it’s certainly not physical strength — yet that’s the first (and hidden) criteria a woman looks at. Can this man, if pushed kill another man (in defense of me)? The other taboo topic is can this man take what he wants from the world (for me). When phrased as such, the kernel of original truth of the all-women-are-golddiggers myth is exposed.

    Then women slide thru the Holy Trinity of tall, dark and handsome. Never mind that all three constructs are essentially genetic and the man has zero choice about them. There’s a girl I know, we’ll call her Cathy. Her mate selection process (as we slide past divorce #3) is constituted in one word: Tall. Just an extreme example.

    Since I couldn’t compete on handsome I competed on physical power levels. Bodybuilding gave me a light heavyweight physique, the outline of which today still brings 25-yr olds to their knees for blowjobs. Of course, the irony is now women think I’m very handsome and distinguished as my temple whitens. Evanescent opinions indeed. Or maybe the word is capricious! Or it might be the Older Male effect. Older males are a recent thing, and we get Power and Status purely because of the non-sequiter circular logic of being older.

    Next comes humor. The whole cocky-funny-never take the woman seriously stuff. That’s a real winner in the 21st century — only for sex and mating. Jokes aren’t funny if a multi-ton heat of steal is ruined because of alpha tomfoolery. But do women date the non-funny engineer or do they keep pining after the alpha males… or maybe we want an alpha engineer? Yet the most successful projects on the planet are achieved by beta-cooperation.

    We can go on, but for the most part, women act in terms of rationalization in their mates. If he floats your boat, you will invent reasons to like him. If he challenges you such that you have to keep coming back again and again, the reverse of the normal suitor pattern, you are putty to be molded into a relationship.

    What disturbs you and which draws you back here time and again, is that regardless of where one is on the path to enlightenment, the Mystery Method and related systems ARE HOW HUMANS interact in the mating dance.

    And that WE KNOW IT. The playing field is leveled by knowledge and it’s a new inning in this ballgame.

    Roissy proves it in pump-n-dump. I prove it every weekend as I date and bed women 10-17 years my junior (granted I’m seeking my third and hopefully final wife). Do something more productive with your time than trying to educate some of the male younglings here. They will learn in time that being a man requires more than the ability to get pussy.

    Like


  49. I’m a little older, but I need someone to translate the second letter for me.

    Like


  50. on July 21, 2008 at 6:10 pm Usually Lurking

    From Clio: …even if you’re looking for a good girl in the old-fashioned sense, you mustn’t be a wuss in your pursuit, and you must be open and frank but not needy and desperate about your sexual interest in her…

    Right Fucking On!

    Like


  51. on July 21, 2008 at 6:11 pm SeaFighter HSV

    Off to RIMPAC ’08.

    Sincerely
    FSF-1

    P.S. There was a great documentary about me on Discovery this weekend. Think it’s called X-Craft.

    Like


  52. Interesting but very irrelevant to know. Once they come with “Christian” (or another ideology based on an imaginary friend), I’ll be on my way.

    Like


  53. once you fuck it up in round one, you can only wait for her ro reinitiate communication. period. if you come to her, you’ve traded any potential power you MIGHT have had remaining……good work Roissy

    Like


  54. on July 21, 2008 at 6:29 pm Ferox Obscurus

    As someone else currently banging someone 10 years my junior, I agree with what El Guapo is saying above.

    Most of that hits the nail on the head – regardless of if you like reality or not (and I don’t – given the option, I’d exterminate humanity, myself included), it is what it is. Either you learn to work with it to your advantage, or you end up getting the short end of the stick.

    None of this is recent, either. I think that is a cognitive fallacy; I have read literature in ancient greek decrying some of the same issues about men and women that come up on these boards. Thus the major quibble I have is the whole discussion of the feminist revolution. Women have more social options, but so do men; that merely unleashes our natural behavior once more. Same shit, different day.

    Or, to quote one of my favorite authors:

    “Things are not different. Things are things.”

    Like


  55. 48 El Guapo

    “And what does “real strength” mean at the dawn of the 21st century? As if you really know or can judge that in a man you’ve met or that you even have spent the prototypical 8 hours with before succumbing to the sexual desires”

    First of all honey, that does not happen in my world. I made that mistake ONCE and learned. Therein lies the stupidity; having sex with a man that you don’t know and most certainly don’t trust. Having a great outcome on a scenario like that is akin to winning the Mega Million lottery. What a woman will get is tons of drama and heartache at worst and getting pumped and dumped at best.

    Gotta run. More later. Thanks for your response.

    Like


  56. on July 21, 2008 at 6:41 pm Usually Lurking

    Don’t forget how wuss pop music was during the 80s.

    Thank God for Metallica.

    Like


  57. I was big into Metallica for a few years. No wusses, that’s for sure. However, Heavy Metal on the whole was pretty a-sexual, wasn’t it? I’m not talking about hairbands, who were all about Girls, but the hardcore stuff.

    I’m trying to think of music that’s consistently about “gittn’ it” and teaching the boys the right lessons. I did mention hairbands, but the ones with more airplay were on the goofy side.

    Country, like all genres, does have songs about girls & fun, but on the whole it’s is more about being a good family man.

    Grunge was a-sexual, and rather whiney about women.

    R&B and Hip Hop are very sexual, but if you like Pop and Rock you’ll probably not listen to contemporary R&B/Hip Hop and vice versa. Same thing with Rap.

    Techno, house, dance? sure. But it’s more about the beat than about the lyrics.

    Do I need to go as far back as the Rolling Stones?

    Like


  58. El Guapo:
    Right on.

    “What disturbs you and which draws you back here time and again, is that regardless of where one is on the path to enlightenment, the Mystery Method and related systems ARE HOW HUMANS interact in the mating dance.

    And that WE KNOW IT. The playing field is leveled by knowledge and it’s a new inning in this ballgame.”

    The next twenty to thirty years are going to become very,very interesting indeed…

    Sara:

    “My advice to this guy would be far less drama producing, sexy, and ego enhancing. It would not be ‘learn these scripts’, ‘model this attitude’, ‘resist your emotions’, ‘resist her emotions’, ‘act like you don’t give a shit’,…..blah, fucking blah, fucking blah. It would take a lot more than some stupid MTV worthy “Real Life” bullshit “

    You seem to be misuderstanding what “game” actually is. It is simply a way relating to women in ways that they actually respond to, instead of the mis-direction that society preaches.

    “It would involve years of inner work, taking an INNER journey (and I just lost 99.99% of you on that one). I’ve posted some links here of various teachings and methods that have worked wonders for me. I’ve spent my whole life trying to wake up and take responsibility for my life, my health, my happiness, my finances….etc., etc., etc. “

    So…essentially you are saying that these men should spend years…and years of inner work, taking responsibility…stripping away parts of their personality that are not conguent with who they really are ?

    That sounds like…inner game.

    Sara. It takes time to move one’s sphere of influence and focus from external to internal. Mystery and others are simply giving men tools to aid the transition. Tools that will ameliorate some of the pain that e-mailer one and two are undoubtably now experiencing.

    Men are using these tools because they work, and they will continue to to use them as they are effective.

    Wishing the world was different will never make it so.

    Like


  59. @48 “I prove it every weekend as I date and bed women 10-17 years my junior (granted I’m seeking my third and hopefully final wife).”

    @54 “As someone else currently banging someone 10 years my junior, I agree with what El Guapo is saying above.”

    Gentlemen, gentlemen…BFD.

    If you’re in your 40’s or beyond, any guy with all of his teeth, and who bathes occsaionally, can bed (or better) a new woman (at least 10 years younger) every day for the rest of his life. Such is the sad state of affairs for older women in the U.S. Haven’t you been keeping up?

    Like


  60. El Guapo crushed it. Game. Set. Match.

    Like


  61. Dammit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Whenever a young woman pushes a young man away, the young man needs to say “yeah, lets take a break, you need to spend some time with your friends, Im sure they miss you and resent me for it!”

    AND USE THE OPPORTUNITY TO GO HOG WILD WITH OTHER WOMEN.

    In two weeks time, you will have RE-LEARNED just how GOOD STRANGE PUSSY is.

    Was your girlfriend a red-head? Fuck a blonde

    Was she blonde? Fuck a brunette

    Go try an Asian girl or something.

    You will be over her in no time, and when she calls back on the phone wanting to talk, tell her you will talk to her just as soon as you can get your dick out of some chick’s mouth.

    The best way to get over any woman is ANOTHER woman. Never pine or sit on the sidelines. That will make it worse. She pushed you off-not the other way around. The only time you ever might have to go back with your tail tucked between your legs is if YOU broke it off and want her back. Dont let her make it out as if it was “your” fault. She breaks it off——-time to go out a huntin’ again.

    Ain’t no chick with a pussy of gold between her hips. There is way too much good pussy out there to get tangled up in blue over any one of them

    Like


  62. #48 El Guapo

    (granted I’m seeking my third and hopefully final wife)

    Great post, aside from this little nugget juxtaposed against the dismissal of your height-loving friend, whom you noted was “sliding past divorce #3.” You’ve only got her beat by one, so including this as proof that she’s got her priorities wrong isn’t very convincing.

    Like


  63. Dammit, I didn’t know there was a “Reader Mail bag”. I have been asking Dr. Drew all my questions ( and getting lame advice too ).

    Like


  64. @61 Reggie

    You’re right!

    The incongruity comes from the fact that I unclear about the fact I was highlighting process and not number of divorces.

    Oh well, not like I’m trying to win a Pulitzer….

    Like


  65. good stuff. when you want to take a break from posting typical articals, the mailbag will be a welcome addition

    Like


  66. on July 21, 2008 at 9:31 pm Cyd the Kid

    Sara ain’t no “cunt” and her commentary here is welcome…by me. What she says is rather mature, hence the derision by most of the commentariate. I usually agree with most of her comments except for this one bit…

    I think what she was REALLY saying here is that she felt like shit. Period.

    I got the impression the girl in question was playing games with the young dude. Roissy got it right, in my opinion.

    With that said, Roissy’s advice is good entertainment and something a very select few can pull off without looking like idiots. It takes a certain panache for one to come across as a bad boy and not a complete dick. Also, his advice is good for getting laid and not for serious long term relationships. These head games are a death sentence to long term relationships. Remember that.

    Like


  67. Cyd, that view has been expressed many times by critics of this blog and it consistently gets knocked down.

    If anyone is stupid enough to try and do everything Roissy recommends all at once and at full volume, then they’ll either look like an idiot if they’re single or ruin their relationship if they’re not.

    If you understand what he is saying, minus the entertaining and crowd-drawing icing on top, you can improve in either situation – single or in a relationship.

    Remembering to not act needy is not a head game; it’s improves you as a man, both in love and at work. Moving on to other interests rather than obsessing over failed ones isn’t a head game; it’s good advice about how to put your life back together, again both in love and at work. Acting confident is more attractive than constant self-deprecation, both with flings and with girlfriends or wives.

    Open your mind a little.

    Like


  68. Sara:

    My advice to this guy would be far less drama producing, sexy, and ego enhancing. It would not be ‘learn these scripts’, ‘model this attitude’, ‘resist your emotions’, ‘resist her emotions’, ‘act like you don’t give a shit’,…..blah, fucking blah, fucking blah. It would take a lot more than some stupid MTV worthy “Real Life” bullshit It would involve years of inner work, taking an INNER journey (and I just lost 99.99% of you on that one). I’ve posted some links here of various teachings and methods that have worked wonders for me. I’ve spent my whole life trying to wake up and take responsibility for my life, my health, my happiness, my finances….etc., etc., etc.

    Well much of what Roissy and other pickup artists recommend is not just doing external change but also inner change as well. Soul searching, reevaluation of your role in the world as a man and changing on the inside too. They call it inner game. And I don’t know what these links you mention are that “worked wonders for you,” but tell me, what ‘wonders” exactly were worked for you? What maturity and growth did you gain? All I see is a crazy lady that repeatedly, day after day, posts the same self-aggrandizing, vague nonsensical cliched drivel on a blog for which she isn’t the target demographic. EVERY. SINGLE. FUCKING. DAY. And were supposed to trust you as an authority on how to be a mature adult? Whatever programs or books you’ve been reading, they haven’t been working.

    There is not stupidly easy way! There is no “MYSTERY” idiot that is going to lead you to paradise in your dealings with women! Grow up! Wake up! It’s not easy. The whole world is asleep. There is no pill or formula. Like I said, I’ve posted more than a few links here which have been ignored or derided and on extremely rare occasionally one lone person has shown vague interest

    Do you know why people ignore your links? Because if you are an example of the end product, then your very comments in these threads show that whatever methods you’re recommending don’t work. You post some bull about no magic bullets, how dumb Roissy’s methods are, how they don’t work (simply because you declare they don’t), post some vague, useless advice about looking deep inside and being yourself, then pat yourself on the back for “taking down” Roissy and declaring yourself as victorious, convinced that you’ve just proven something. You’re delusional to the Nth degree and your own best (and only) fan.

    So, my deepest apologies, but if you want to use cliches, formulas, a few sentences here and there, it ain’t going to make much difference, except possibly make matters worse. I could say this; trust is key for anyone. The girl in this scenario does not trust the boy in this scenario to be strong for her, but she’s wanting real strength, not pseudo strength; passive aggressive bullshit aka roissy.

    You accuse Roissy and the readers of using cliches and a few sentences here and there, yet once again you respond with a cliche like “trust is the key.” Great New Age bumper sticker but how exactly does such a vague phrase help the guy in Letter #1 above? All it does is help the advice giver act sanctimonious and holier than thou without having to actually make any tangible, helpful contributions.

    I issued you a challenge to top Roissy’s advice with your own concrete, tangible, step-by-step easy-to-follow advice and once again you did nothing but critique Roissy’s advice and respond with vague cliches and self-congratulatory New Age junk.

    One more time: can you actually give either of the two letter writers advice as specific or easy to put into practice as Roissy’s?

    Like


  69. 54: “None of this is recent, either. I think that is a cognitive fallacy; I have read literature in ancient greek decrying some of the same issues about men and women that come up on these boards. Thus the major quibble I have is the whole discussion of the feminist revolution. Women have more social options, but so do men; that merely unleashes our natural behavior once more. Same shit, different day.”

    This is the most sensible thing I’ve ever read on this blog, bar none.

    Like


  70. Is it possible to just block certain commenters web addresses from continuting to post things that make me ashamed to be in the same gener?

    Like


  71. Why can’t I just live in a cave?

    Like


  72. PA said “Do I need to go as far back as the Rolling Stones?”

    yeh!

    Like


  73. 70 Why can’t I just live in a cave?

    You can. Check with David Alexander for how-to advice.

    Like


  74. El Guapo:
    “Jokes aren’t funny if a multi-ton heat of steal is ruined because of alpha tomfoolery. But do women date the non-funny engineer or do they keep pining after the alpha males… or maybe we want an alpha engineer? Yet the most successful projects on the planet are achieved by beta-cooperation. ”

    Fantastic Point.
    An interesting idea:
    Is is possible to have a team of alphas engaged in a completely constructive persuit?
    The only real example I can think of is a SAS or Navy SEAL team…but then they too have sublimated their alphaness and become beta to an ideal…such as the “mission” and the ideals of their respective countries.

    Like


  75. You can. Check with David Alexander for how-to advice.

    I do not live in a cave, I am simply incompatible with game, and I choose not to play it.

    Like


  76. but then they too have sublimated their alphaness and become beta to an ideal

    Not sublimating your “alphaness” to something higher makes you just an animal.

    Also, “alphaness” is relative to other men in your group. Any Seal team member is probably going to be an Alpha compared to most men, but there can only be one acting Alpha in that particular unit.

    Like


  77. @73

    Sublimation to hierarchy. Something we men do all the time to keep the peace.

    I didn’t realize the deeper significance until you brought it up. Part of what must have women woefully confused is that their instinct to look for The Man was dependent on the social cues from a social circle of a village with under 500 human beings.

    The greater San Diego-LA-Irvine-SantaMonica metroplex has over 10 million in it. And there’s no hierarchy to speak of, only an ad-hoc thing that comes and goes as needed in particular environments. It must be disconcerting to women to have men that behave in one environment high alpha (e.g surgeon in the health system) and zippo in another (just another passenger being roughed up by TSA thugs), to be extreme but illustrative.

    It would be interesting, nay very interesting, to see what the complete elimination of status did to a social interaction. Will familiarity breed contempt? Can she relax enough to see the sexually attractive man in front of her? Will she introduce her own attempt to arrogate power and thus create status? Will power, hence status, be automatically introduced by the parties themselves if a decision were called for? Not being a pysch major I have no idea of what the answer is. Can humans even relate to one another without a clear power/status relationship? I suspect the answer is No, they can’t.

    Like


  78. El Guapo:
    “It must be disconcerting to women to have men that behave in one environment high alpha (e.g surgeon in the health system) and zippo in another (just another passenger being roughed up by TSA thugs), to be extreme but illustrative.”

    Very interesting. Also it would be very interesting to see what would happen to a womans attraction level over time if she was to see the surgeon in different ratios of alpha/betaness ?
    For example:
    Nurse sees surgeon in high alpha situations all day.
    Surgeon marries nurse.

    Of course, his salary is more than enough to support them both.

    She resigns, places him (through failed testing) and sees him placed into beta roles most of the time when he’s not at work.

    Alpha pool boy shows up…

    What’s the tipping point…sixty percent alpha ?
    When does the risk of cockolding become acceptable ?

    “It would be interesting, nay very interesting, to see what the complete elimination of status did to a social interaction. Will familiarity breed contempt? Can she relax enough to see the sexually attractive man in front of her? Will she introduce her own attempt to arrogate power and thus create status?”

    Hmm.
    Like you, I suspect that a power struggle…depending on if they have had sex yet.

    Sexual tension is two wills contesting each other for dominance, the result of which would probably determine the hierarchy to come.

    With the lack of available options, the woman’s power comes in delaying/denying pleasure and the man’s power comes in recieving/taking pleasure.

    In the modern world, there are many women who will grant men pleasure, for a modicum of effort. Women have always swam in an abundance of sexual options.
    In the modern world, Men can now have the same privilege…but we still fall back on genetic programing where sexual scarcity was the norm.

    Hence game.

    Like


  79. T

    “One more time: can you actually give either of the two letter writers advice as specific or easy to put into practice as Roissy’s?”

    One more time; a big negative on that. NO. Can’t do. Sorry. But I repeat myself. If you want sound bites, watch the evenings.

    Like


  80. Duh…evening news.

    Like


  81. Sara:

    “One more time; a big negative on that. NO. Can’t do. Sorry. But I repeat myself. If you want sound bites, watch the evening’s news”

    Hmm…profundity through obsfucation.
    Sorry friend, that dog won’t hunt. In the absence of clothing…it’s safe to assume that the empress has no clothes.

    So… no advice for our readers then?

    Colour me … surprised.

    Like


  82. Don’t know if it’s been said — like hell I’m reading 80 comments — but how old are these guys? If they’re under 25, cluelessness, desperation, and servile eagerness are to be expected. If they’re much over 25, though…

    Like


  83. You guys like “The Rules” for women, right?

    Roissy rules:

    Wait at least three weeks before attempting contact of any sort.

    Your conversation should go along these lines: ”Hey nice to hear from you. Listen, I’m in a rush so we’ll have to catch up some other time.” End of phone call.

    Mistake number one: Talking about looking for a relationship.

    When a girl pulls back, you pull back twice as far.

    Early, passionate sex is often the prelude to amazing long term relationships.

    Girls want to EARN your love.

    The Rules rules:

    Always End Phone Calls and dates First.

    Don’t See Him More than Once or Twice a Week.

    Don’t Call Him & Rarely Return His Calls

    Playing hard to get is still the best way to get married.

    This guy’s biggest mistake is this, “What should I do from here Roissy? I eagerly await your response! J.”

    Either he doesn’t read Roissy’s blog for comprehension or he’s a fictional character, or he really is that dumb.

    81 Dracian

    ““One more time: can you actually give either of the two letter writers advice as specific or easy to put into practice as Roissy’s?”

    If the guys are really just being themselves and it isn’t getting them what they want, they need to BE something different, then THEY will figure it out. They won’t need to ask someone else what to DO. Problem is people think there is some cleverness, trick, tactic, or product they can employ to get what they want. People can do the inner work (OMFG anything but that esoteric bullshit, huh?) OR play games and pretend. The many here who believe “inner work” is stupid new age nonsense are basically losers who are rationalizing being a loser because they’re too lazy or don’t want to seem “uncool”. None of their friends are doing it and look how happy they are.

    T 68

    “All I see is a crazy lady that repeatedly, day after day, posts the same self-aggrandizing, vague nonsensical cliched drivel on a blog for which she isn’t the target demographic. EVERY. SINGLE. FUCKING. DAY. And were supposed to trust you as an authority on how to be a mature adult? Whatever programs or books you’ve been reading, they haven’t been working.”

    In the words of W.C. Fields, “Don’t do as I do, do as I say. I only point the way!”

    Like


  84. on July 22, 2008 at 4:20 am SovereignAmericanMale

    @26 PA

    “Easy. Stand outside her window at 1AM and blast Peter Gabriel’s “In Your Eyes” from a boombox. Wear a thrift-store trenchcoat and have the saddest doe-eyes expression on your face. Then, she’ll see what a sensitive guy you are and fall in love with you.”

    Not so fast…
    In a Police State with noise ordinances & stalker laws, now mainstream, she may call the cops… and the poor guy might get some time for it.

    @74 Dracian

    “The only real example I can think of is a SAS or Navy SEAL team…but then they too have sublimated their alphaness and become beta to an ideal…such as the “mission” and the ideals of their respective countries.”

    Error: false premise: Ideals are are not Alphas/Betas because they do not have male/female human body, nor do they have a pulse. Ergo, no alpha can submit/become beta to them. They (ideas) do have a shelf life tho.

    Otherwise, Yes you can have a team of such alphas. We call them firefighters, cowboys, and normally.

    More to the point, can we have an entire society of alphas or a nation of alphas.
    the existence of the concept we call Civil war indicates a negative.

    I consider the term a misnomer… There is nothing civil about warfare.

    Like


  85. Sara:
    ““One more time: can you actually give either of the two letter writers advice as specific or easy to put into practice as Roissy’s?”

    Actually it was T. who was asking for an answer. That isn’t to say that I was uninterested in your response.

    Thanks for answering.

    “If the guys are really just being themselves and it isn’t getting them what they want, they need to BE something different, then THEY will figure it out.”

    Interesting. How can they do that? Trial and Error?

    Or following the advice of men who have used repeatable, definable and effective tools to improve their lives. Why should these men cripple themselves ?

    For example:
    You are lost and trying to get to New York. Do you:

    a) Randomly drive in a direction ?
    b) Use a compass and a map to get to where you are going ?

    Do not allow your distaste of game to doubt it’s effectiveness.

    “People can do the inner work (OMFG anything but that esoteric bullshit, huh?) OR play games and pretend.

    Again…you are either confused or you are deliberately obscuring the issue. There is no “OR” here.

    What is Love…but a game ?

    It is possible for a Man to work his inner and outer self or “game” at the same time.

    In the end though, you are correct… although unintentionally.

    It is all about inner game.

    Without the elimination of crippling inner game issues, all the tricks and outer game are essentially useless.

    Like


  86. Damn formatting:
    Trying again…

    Sara:
    ““One more time: can you actually give either of the two letter writers advice as specific or easy to put into practice as Roissy’s?”

    Actually it was T. who was asking for an answer. That isn’t to say that I was uninterested in your response.

    Thanks for answering.

    “If the guys are really just being themselves and it isn’t getting them what they want, they need to BE something different, then THEY will figure it out.”

    Interesting. How can they do that? Trial and Error?

    Or following the advice of men who have used
    repeatable, definable and effective tools to improve their lives. Why should these men cripple themselves ?

    For example:
    You are lost and trying to get to New York. Do you:

    a) Randomly drive in a direction ?
    b) Use a compass and a map to get to where you are going ?

    Do not allow your distaste of game to doubt it’s effectiveness.

    “People can do the inner work (OMFG anything but that esoteric bullshit, huh?) OR play games and pretend.

    Again…you are either confused or you are deliberately obscuring the issue. There is no “OR” here.

    What is Love…but a game ?

    It is possible for a Man to work his inner and outer self or “game” at the same time.

    In the end though, you are correct… although unintentionally.

    It is all about inner game.

    Without the elimination of crippling inner game issues, all the tricks and outer game are essentially useless.

    Like


  87. SAM:

    “Error: false premise: Ideals are are not Alphas/Betas because they do not have male/female human body, nor do they have a pulse. Ergo, no alpha can submit/become beta to them. They (ideas) do have a shelf life tho.”

    Agreed…but people can choose to be subordinate to anything.

    “More to the point, can we have an entire society of alphas or a nation of alphas.
    the existence of the concept we call Civil war indicates a negative. ”

    It seems that once we reach a critical mass of alphas…we (as a society) return to the tyrannical ways of our relatively recent (more than 200 years) past.

    It’s guns and the threat of punishment that keeps up civil.

    Like


  88. 85 “It is all about inner game.

    Without the elimination of crippling inner game issues, all the tricks and outer game are essentially useless.”

    For ME anyway, it’s impossible for me to use the word “game” to describe inner work, self-examination, self-transformation, developing awareness, seeking love, joy, freedom, taking personal responsibility, etc. It’s not possible! I think I need to give up here. LOL

    ” How can they do that? Trial and Error?”

    Well, like I said, the sources I’ve used to BE more myself are likely not going to be your cup of tea, but I choose my sources based on the transformational power of the teachings as I experience it. Do I feel the ring of truth? Do I feel freer? Do I feel more creative and less reactive? Have I truly learned something that’s helpful to me and hurtful to no one? This is a fine line. How do you help yourself and be assured you’re not hurting someone else because we can get way too caught up in other’s reaction to us as well. Am I having more fun, joy, laughter, money, love, truth, honesty, etc. than I had before? Are my relationships really improving?

    I see guys like Mystery as not being truly able to make a positive impact on humanity. He may want to; no doubt. But his methods seem to me shallow and short sighted. Still. whatever a person wants to do should be allowed of course. If I’m not approving of it, it’s my problem. I just don’t think in 100 or 200 years, people will be looking back on the Mystery Game theory as anything other than a popular fad. By and large, women don’t like to be “gamed”, with a few exceptions. It sounds too much like bullshit to me and I’m allergic.

    Like


  89. on July 22, 2008 at 5:20 am Women_And_Men

    About Sara….

    Men and women don’t really have a clue about each others worlds. Sara is probably talking about how she discovered being a completely mindless, manipulative, demanding, anti-male feminist nut-job wasn’t healthy. So she’s trying to stop. That’s what her talk sounds like. Now, she sees you men talking, and she thinks your trying to become like she was. It’s escalation in her mind.

    Let me put Sara’s fears to rest. The men on this board are coming from such a totally different place as you are coming from Sara there is no way in h*ll they are going to start acting the way you think they will.

    The blogger knows where *they*, men, are coming from. He knows this better than Sara because he is a man, and Sara is not. He is pushing them in the direction that is helpfull. He knows, I know, the other posters know, that very few of the men being advised will go all the way into his game advice and do ALL of it. That’s not going to happen from where they are now.

    But they are going to do enough to stop getting stomped all over the dating scene. And that is helpful. For everyone. Even Sara. Because the bloggers advice help men stop a still-not-very-perfect Sara from doing more insane things.

    At least that’s my take.

    Like


  90. 31 Nate

    “Never had any success when out and a woman asks “so are you out here alone” “yes”. Seems like females internal alarm goes off, and they begin thinking “this guy isn’t likable, social, and/or popular.”

    I have way more success if I go out with 3-4 guys who all have at least some game, as we will work as a team.

    Thoughts from others on going out alone? Anyone had alot of success?”

    It never was an issue, due to the fact that:

    (a) it was never at a BAR, so much as it was an EVENT, like a concert or a party or anywhere else where being alone wasnt a stigma

    (b) …and even if i was alone, i knew a lot of the people in the place

    Like


  91. “on July 22, 2008 at 4:20 am84 SovereignAmericanMale
    @26 PA

    “Easy. Stand outside her window at 1AM and blast Peter Gabriel’s “In Your Eyes” from a boombox. Wear a thrift-store trenchcoat and have the saddest doe-eyes expression on your face. Then, she’ll see what a sensitive guy you are and fall in love with you.”

    Not so fast…
    In a Police State with noise ordinances & stalker laws, now mainstream, she may call the cops… and the poor guy might get some time for it.”

    I think PA was joking about standing outside her window with a boombox. That is actually a well-known scene from an ’80s teen movie (I think it was SAY ANYTHING?) where the main character does just that to win a girl over

    Like


  92. 89 W & E

    You’ll be happy to know perhaps that I was a feminist I think for about two weeks. I rebelled mightily against my parents who are both anti-penis feminists. In fact they love lesbians and hate gays.

    Am not doing anything crazy. The man I am most emotionally (but not yet physically) involved with is 29 years old. Our bond keeps getting stronger as he tells me he is sick of girls and wants a woman that sounds very much like me…crazy as I am.

    Here’s an original quote from my daughter “Crazy things are for normal people.” If you can get your mind around that, you’re crazy. I love crazy people. It’s the normal one’s like roissy who scare me. Read “Still Playing Games” for details.

    Virtually everyone is playing games. Some here insist that “game” is good and to me, it keeps sounding weak. The last time I was gamed….and he was GOOD…I ended up thinking the guy was in reality an insecure jerk. I know, some here are different. That’s good.

    Like


  93. “You have two choices as I see it. You can either drink yourself into oblivion and pass out in the fetal position on the floor of your bathroom barely summoning the strength to flick your tongue out to catch your salty tears for nourishment, or you can go out every night, with or without your boys, and strike up a conversation with any attractive women who interest you. The outcome of either decision will resolve itself.”

    Many apologies if I am over-posting, but moderation has never been my strong point. I simply must comment on this! I like (once again) your ever popular TWO choices scenario. This scenario reminds me of my own morbidly personal experience.

    The crying in fetal position barely summoning the will to live certainly describes MY pathetic state and oddly enough HIS too! The big fat difference is that I did not play games and hide my anger and despair. I did not pretend to be anything other than a devastated mess. I called him, wanted to talk, email, etc. HE took the passive aggressive, i.e., ignore her, don’t return her calls or emails. I had dropped from the face of the earth. * poof *

    How do I know he was as devastated as I? The pictures of him that were posted online a few days later. He was very hurt, very angry, very depressed, very devastated. Now why, roissy, would he pretend? To save his image. His ego. His need to be right above all else. No other reason. So his image is saved at what cost? I’ll tell you this. I’m a lot better off than he is at this point.

    Like


  94. I think PA was joking about standing outside her window with a boombox.

    Yes, indeed, I was joking and also alluding to a famous scene in an ’80s teen movie whose message was that acting desperate-Beta will get you the girl.

    Like


  95. on July 22, 2008 at 1:21 pm Patrick Bateman

    Is is possible to have a team of alphas engaged in a completely constructive persuit?

    Traders on wall street.

    Like


  96. Is is possible to have a team of alphas engaged in a completely constructive persuit?

    Or storming Normandy on D-Day.

    Like


  97. @Roissy:I wish you would have replied sooner but u sure didnt. could have helped some if u had

    @sara: I wrote the second email. you are reinforcing everything i did that didnt work and would never work. sad thing is if i came at u like so u would burn me in 2 second yet like everywoman who wants men to think highly and kindly of them, u keep encouraging men who are “softies”. this is no good.

    @ peter (15): “Made that mistake in my past, check.” I did too obviously and sometimes still do. I look back and i am like ‘ang that explains it and true in the past ur friends dont know any better and when u do a lil more than them they praise u though u are not getting nutin. oh well shit happens then u move on.

    I dont always approve of roissy’s advice, i often think he got burned by way too many women at first nd this is the best he can do to make up for it. i however take nuggets here and there but on the whol his answer to my email… the second one… i later figured out myself in a brief moment of reflection.

    Like


  98. 97 B for beta,

    “u keep encouraging men who are “softies”. this is no good.”

    Nice to hear from you. Well I love men who are both strong and soft. It appears the strong part in you required strengthening, but please do not lose your soft part! Roissy seems to advocate the “heart of stone:” approach. Just because unconscious and horny women respond with open legs to these types of assholes does not mean it’s good for you to do a 360 and suddenly become more of what you are not in order to salvage your shattered ego.
    It IS better to get pissed than depressed, though. Don’t get me wrong.

    It’s always wise to take with a grain of salt anyone’s advice (including mine shocking as that is). You have the best possible guidance within you (more new age shlock?). You know that no doubt. Please consider this: be the New Man! The glorious Alpha-Beta. Either/Or’s are for LOSERS. Be heart and mind! In other words truly intelligent and not just more cunning and clever.

    Good luck. It’s not easy and was never meant to be.

    Like


  99. does not mean it’s good for you to do a 360

    A 360 is actually full circle. What you mean is a 180.

    Like


  100. 99 T

    Bless you, Mr. T! I stand corrected.

    Like


  101. on July 22, 2008 at 10:22 pm Ferox Obscurus

    @95:

    I am deeply insulted you think we are constructive.

    Like


  102. on July 22, 2008 at 10:32 pm Gunslingergregi

    Every time I have had a job some woman has been latched on to these, Anyone else see that. Make decent money its like adding some insta bitch. I make x a month. Oh wait where did you come from.

    Like


  103. El Guapo —

    “Experienced” women = lots of partners, much emotional baggage, and learned behavior of rejecting intimacy through sex/hormones-endorphins etc. It’s a mistake — any man won’t be as loved as her first few lovers, at best he’ll be a pale imitation and merely “liked” to be dumped whenever the first better offer comes along. Since the learned behavior is to move to the next guy.

    Sara — this is why women should never give advice to men about women. Men are engaged in a competition with every other guy for a woman’s favors. How does a guy get successful with women? You can’t say, other than just accept his “beta” status as not being successful with women and therefore resentful towards women? You’re not giving anything useful. Just platitudes to accept failure (which will surely turn to resentment and misogyny, see one Mohammed Atta).

    Alpha-Beta? Most of the men at Normandy were “Betas,” indeed if you watch the Band of Brothers DVDs with the real guys in it, they’re pretty average guy material. Including Capt. Winters. None of them considered themselves heroes or acted the kind of macho-posturing Alpha stuff that women in today’s post-Pill/Condom society go nuts for. Most of the guys in Iraq/Afghanistan are “beta” in that while they are tough they don’t engage in macho posturing — teamwork gets them through.

    Like


  104. Sara —

    Nope. Women make short-term decisions based on testosterone/status, which leaves most guys out. The things that get people ahead in most professions — teamwork, modesty, hard word, dedication, loyalty etc. are pure poison in being successful with women.

    Look at Asian men — they are going nuts over at Gene Expression based on their less than high levels of perceived testosterone (even Bruce Lee was concerned about it, working brutally to get that “hooded” cobra-back look with his upper body).

    What Roissy is advising is that men wake up to reality. Women don’t want or need anything but the most macho, high-status type of guy. They only make short term decisions and so men should both echo that behavior and adjust their decisions accordingly.

    This is not “passive aggression” but rather maximizing your chances. If a woman is not jumping into bed with you soon, she’s just not interested.

    As far as “good for society” what could POSSIBLY go wrong with a bunch of lonely, unattached guys without any relationships or sex with women? Why not, after all it’s not like such conditions produce a whole boatload of misogyny and rage towards women! Why, such guys will be content to forever standing around watching women from the sidelines! Maybe they’ll all go “gay!”

    This is the typical mistake women make — underestimating the problems unattached men can create in society, particularly towards women.

    Like


  105. 104

    Balance is the key Mr. Whiskey–balance.

    “what could POSSIBLY go wrong with a bunch of lonely, unattached guys without any relationships or sex with women?”

    The problem is in the “loneliness”. Personally I would want to deal with that issue BEFORE embarking on intimate relationships. The more lonely you feel the more important to avoid entanglements in my opinion. But it’s also true that people can learn from mistakes if they make them often enough, but even that is no guarantee unless they put conscious effort into it. I don’t see roissy dealing with his personal issues. He seems to want to just get more clever. With him it’s like a chess game filled with drama and to me; tedium.

    And maybe I don’t qualify as a woman worth mentioning because “macho, high-status type of guys” creep me out. The stuff you mention; “teamwork, modesty, hard word, dedication, loyalty” as being the death knoll in success with women, I find very attractive. A man can be a gentleman in the boardroom and a whore in the bedroom.

    Like


  106. Sara:

    The problem is in the “loneliness”. Personally I would want to deal with that issue BEFORE embarking on intimate relationships. The more lonely you feel the more important to avoid entanglements in my opinion.

    So…the solution to loneliness is to do nothing ?
    This will probably will work for most women as they are swimming in sexual offers.

    But for most guys ?

    Long. Grinding. Dry Spell.

    This will only serve to re-enforce feelings of “loserdom”, and make it even more difficult to generate confidence to improve the situation.

    No. A better solution would be to get right back on the horse…pretty much immediately.

    Like


  107. Sara:

    I don’t see roissy dealing with his personal issues. He seems to want to just get more clever. With him it’s like a chess game filled with drama and to me; tedium.

    Hmm.. how would you know what roissy’s issues are. The only one who would know that…is roissy.
    I strongly suspect that roissy is a persona created for his own amusement…the fact that this blog is entertaining and informative is incidental.

    B for beta:
    An alpha male is not ashamed to ask for help when he needs it…what you are doing here is high status.

    It’s up to you of course…but…
    Might I suggest a change of name ?

    Like


  108. @103

    Whiskey,

    That’s why I usually preface many of my comments with the conditional of “the clinically sane” woman. Picked that one up from the inimitable Doc Love in LA.

    I don’t care if the woman has had multiple partners. Any have decent woman has to clock in around 10-15 by the time she’s 35. If she is a high net-worth or ultra-high-status beauty, depending on upbringing, she might have more.

    So, the next line item is not the number, but as you so aptly point out, the emotional baggage, and whether or not she does the love-em-leave-em dance.

    And, you are right-smack-on the short-term testo decision-making that women engage in. In that sense, they are certainly their own worst enemy.

    Like


  109. on July 23, 2008 at 5:01 am Being_Alone

    Dracian:
    ****
    106 :

    Quote of Sara:
    ****
    Sara:

    The problem is in the “loneliness”. Personally I would want to deal with that issue BEFORE embarking on intimate relationships. The more lonely you feel the more important to avoid entanglements in my opinion.
    ****
    Back to Dracian:
    So…the solution to loneliness is to do nothing ?
    This will probably will work for most women as they are swimming in sexual offers.
    ****

    Start Me:
    You’ve gotten completely combative, Dracian. Let’s rework what Sara said into Roissy speak:
    “Loneliness is going to turn girls off. You should try to pysch yourself out of feelings of loneliness BEFORE you go out looking for girls. Neediness and loneliness are the the touch of death for attraction”

    You’d be ra-raing Sara’s statement if it were given in Roissy format, wouldn’t you?

    Let’s give that statement in my format:
    And yeah, people who think loneliness is the worse thing are going to have alot more trouble than people who think, or know from experience, that their are plenty of worse things out there than JUST being lonely.

    Also, once you can deal with, and face down loneliness and needness you are in much better shape to end your loneliness on terms that are healthy to you. Helpful measures to take the bite out of loneliness are:

    **1.Shatter the dichotomy in your mind of “wonderfull relationship with fantasy person” and “being alone”. You know people in horrible relationships, picture yourself in that same relationship. This will curb your belief that things are at their “worst” and you will feel better about yourself. You will also come to understand that ending your loneliness by starting a completely destructive relationship is ‘bad’. Yes, boys and girls, it is very, very bad indeed.**
    2.To dent the neurological impact of loneliness you can turn the TV on in the background. For some reason, most people need human voices, and prolonged absence will begin to make them very uncomfortable. For the extreme hermits, this will dramatically lower the chance of the hermit starting to talk to himself.
    3.You should learn to entertain yourself, it keeps you from being extremely irritating to those around you, and will reduce “loneliness”.

    Like


  110. Being_Alone:

    Let’s give that statement in my format:
    And yeah, people who think loneliness is the worse thing are going to have alot more trouble than people who think, or know from experience, that their are plenty of worse things out there than JUST being lonely.

    I completely agree that there are worse things than being lonely, the problem is that it is extremely easy to get sucked into an endless pattern of navelgazing and endless psyco-analysis of “what went wrong”.

    Once you go from “what went wrong” to “what’s wrong with me…” you’re fucked.

    A maze of one’s own making.

    Which will lead to….oh yeah…
    A Long. Grinding. Dry Spell.

    True Story:
    A close friend of mine, broke up with with his ex (six months) about two years ago…he hasn’t had a chance at a date until last month..when I basically took him on a “sarge-a-thon”.

    He basically retreated into World of Warcraft because…and I quote:
    “Maybe it’s me… maybe I can’t handle the real world…”

    Introspection is important…but only definitive, focused action can change a situation.

    To sum up:
    “If your life is shit. Change it.”

    Act first. Reflect later. Act based on new data.

    Like


  111. 109 Dracian “You know people in horrible relationships, picture yourself in that same relationship. ”

    My point exactly. It is far better to be alone than in a fucked up relationship. There is an exponential increase in loneliness when you put two lonely people together. It is not just 1 + 1. It’s far worse than that.

    ““Loneliness is going to turn girls off. You should try to pysch yourself out of feelings of loneliness BEFORE you go out looking for girls. Neediness and loneliness are the the touch of death for attraction”.

    I agree sort of and sort of not. #1 there is no “psyching” yourself out. I believe sometimes you guys are pathological in your issue avoidance efforts. I’m telling you it’s better to not date for an entire year and really delve into your “loneliness” or whatever neurotic self-defeating behaviors you have or however long it takes.

    Is that doing nothing? No, it’s a little different than wallowing. You can still have your friends, your family, your dog, your books, your movies, your water skis, your Calvin Klein underwear, your coworkers, your chat group… Use the library, Barnes and Noble, CDs, seminars, counselors, spiritual crap. It matters not what paths you choose. Just choose. Stop avoiding and eventually you will stop needing to fake it. In the end if you’re faking yourself out you know it anyway, and further so does everyone else.

    Anyway, this is MY way of dealing with big issues. I just took a year off from dating and it has served me tremendously because during that time I was busy as hell on my businesses, my health, daughter, house, friends, cats, my mental and emotional health. Hell, it’s not easy, but so what? Being in a fucked up relationship is a million times harder. It’s by far the best thing I’ve ever done. Now I’m just about ready to start playing again.

    Like


  112. ^ I would read the reader reviews and ignore the idiotic editorial reviews; but that’s just me.

    Like


  113. on July 23, 2008 at 12:42 pm SovereignAmericanMale

    113 sara

    Osho’s book (that you have linked to) dispointed me greatly. I expected more, but its like reading something by Depak Chackra (sp?) with a touch of Carlos Castenada.

    Sara, if you want something filling read the following:

    1. Jonathan Livingston Seagull
    2. Illusions
    3. One
    All by Richard Bach

    Also check out

    Chicken Soup for the Soul Love Stories: Stories of First Dates, Soul Mates, and Everlasting Love

    —————————————————————————

    And Sara? I warn you not *NOT* to read:

    1. The 48 Laws of Power
    2. The Art of Seduction
    3. The 33 Strategies of War
    All by Robert Greene

    or

    4. The Definitive Book of Body Language
    by Barbara Pease and Allan Pease

    5. Get Anyone to Do Anything: Never Feel Powerless Again–With Psychological Secrets to Control and Influence Every Situation
    by David J. Lieberman

    6. Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion
    by Robert B. Cialdini

    Or anything authored by Neil Strauss or Marshall Law.

    Like


  114. > A man can be a gentleman in the *boardroom* and a whore in the bedroom.

    So you finally confirm that the guy needs to be high status. Thank you. (emphasis added)

    Like


  115. > The Definitive Book of Body Language

    I take it it is good then?

    Like


  116. Also _Secrets of Sexual Body Language_, for all the depictions of formerly mythical “green lights” and “go” signals your autistic, logic-oriented, empathy-and-intuition-starved-by-society’s need-for-process-oriented-beta-techies brain can handle.

    Like


  117. 114 S.A.M

    Based on your book recommendations I can see that you and I are quite different. I read Jonathan Livingston Seagull many years ago and have moved way beyond that (pardon me, because that is an arrogant statement). At this point I would consider reading it going backwards. Too saccharine for lack of a better word and I’d have to say the same about the Chicken Soup series. Body language books I love and Allan Pease is a master. Learning body language has improved my life significantly.

    But Osho? I’m crazy about Osho! I love that man (who is now dead thanks to the Reagan administration) but I don’t take the views of anyone lock, stock, and barrel.

    “Osho’s book (that you have linked to) dispointed me greatly. I expected more, but its like reading something by Depak Chackra (sp?) with a touch of Carlos Castenada.”

    Sorry to me this statement shows an extreme ignorance of Osho. I have read both Carlos Castenada and Depak Chopra and Osho is NOTHING like either of them separately or together. He defies categorization which some people can’t handle. I have no clue how you came up with that, except that you apparently read the stupid official reviews, not the readers reviews and certainly not the book itself. I’m not surprised you have the take you do on it considering the gulf between our world views. No matter, though, the world is rich with choices for all of us.

    115 Nupnup

    High status? Well the men I’ve been with have covered the full range in the status department. High status to me means integrity, wholeness, balance, responsibility, health AND sexiness. I am highly sexual and a man who is not, would not be a good match for me. I used the “boardroom” example as a take on the Jerry Hall’s oft misquoted, “A woman should be a lady in the (?) and a whore in bedroom”. Can’t get a definitive quote on that, but you get the gist of it. Only my second husband was a boardroom type.

    Like


  118. S.A.M

    “And Sara? I warn you not *NOT* to read:

    2. The Art of Seduction”

    You warn me? Have experienced the pain of seduction and my definition of seduction is “betrayal”. It is a form of betrayal and I don’t care who here disagrees with me. Learning body language and having a serious commitment to developing real trust with a man before sex has made me immune to seduction.

    Seduction is a manipulative game with a winner and a loser, and I don’t plan on losing again. No pleasure in the world is worth it. Seduction is for insecure men who have nothing of real substance and longevity of offer a woman. It is for shams and cads. Men who are very gifted in the art of seduction are basically animal trainers, with women as the animals they are training for certain sexual responses in order to get their needs met. And men who are really into seduction are highly needy types. In the end, they’re just creeps!

    I require the real thing. The real thing is more satisfying in every way. Once you’ve established a real bond and trust, then let the love games begin and it is not seduction at that point, it is more a dance and a surrendering to love, sex, each other and life itself. It is not a taking.

    Like


  119. on July 24, 2008 at 9:13 am SovereignAmericanMale

    118 sara

    114 S.A.M

    “Based on your book recommendations I can see that you and I are quite different. I read Jonathan Livingston Seagull many years ago and have moved way beyond that (pardon me, because that is an arrogant statement).”

    What I am reading these days is light years and much heavier lifting that J.L.S.

    My recommendations to you were based on the understanding that you had kids.

    When I was a kid, me and mom took turns reading together.

    I made a (false?) reflexive assumption that this was fairly common, and that you did the same with your kids.

    Have you read “One” or “Illusions” by him?

    Like


  120. 121 SAM

    I Amazon.commed Richard Bach and looked at the reviews on “Illusions”. I will check it out further next time I’m at the bookstore. My immediate impression (like your of Osho) is that it doesn’t really suit my personality. Speaking of personality, I’d be willing to bet you’re an enneagram type one. I am a type 8, and if you’re a one, we are true opposites, which is a rarity. My first husband was a one and I adore him but we could never make it to the finish line, though we were married many years.

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  121. “You can either drink yourself into oblivion and pass out in the fetal position on the floor of your bathroom barely summoning the strength to flick your tongue out to catch your salty tears for nourishment”

    Lmfao. That’s one of the funniest things I’ve ever read.

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  122. on June 27, 2010 at 7:12 pm Devil's Advocate

    More solid advice for tortured beta souls. When a girl breaks up with you, it’s definitely time to find greener pastures. My personal rule is to break all contact with said EX girlfriend indefinitely. El guapo has it right:

    * There is one exception to this. Where your status is so much higher that the girl repeatedly goes to pieces around you regardless of what you do. In which case, keep her on the side to have the base of 1 as you go power-fuck the Hotts™.

    another exception is if you can legitimately be friends with her. Case in point: in my beta days(a couple years ago), I wound up dating one of my friends. 6 months later, she dumped me hard and started fucking someone else. I didn’t talk to her for a good 7 months. Now, when we go out to the bar, she’ll run around and point me out to other girls telling them how good I was in bed. – Life’s good as an alpha.

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