Does It Matter If Girls Know About The Game?

Answer: No.

But don’t take it from me. Hear it straight from a woman’s mouth (hat tip: reader Joe):

The last few years of Sunday brunches with my girlfriends have revealed that players tend to follow a particular pattern. They bang a girl, then don’t call for at least two weeks. When they decide they want some ass, they will hound her with six calls on a Saturday . . . and then a Wednesday . . . and then the next Friday . . . until she picks up. Repeat.

I like to call it the Player Pattern – one section of the unspoken rule book that players everywhere use to win their game. […]

[H]ow did the Player Pattern become a pattern? Because it happened to each of my girlfriends. Repeatedly. We may moan about a lack of respect, but every time we run into a bad boy, we think we can be the one to pull him to monogamy.

I still don’t quite understand why someone would perpetuate the Player ideology. It leads females to self-doubt and insecurities, makes us hesitant and difficult and renders communication near impossible. (i.e. we will pick fights and want to talk about feelings). But I do acknowledge that tips that come from blogs, game shows and your boys seem to work. So when the game is so easy to win, can you really blame the Player? Who is really the fool here?

When I first learned game, I had convinced myself that once the material and tactics got out into general circulation and became widely known amongst the set of pretty girls who get hit on the most, it would mean game would lose its element of surprise and women would stop responding positively to it. I figured once that in-field inflection point was reached women would revert back to getting aroused by men with the biggest pecs or loudest mouth. My worries couldn’t have been more unfounded. Game is out there and girls are still lubing themselves for men who run it on them. Even the girls who *know* they are getting gamed.

To see why this is so all you need to do is play a gender role reversal thought experiment. Imagine a girl and guy meet. They have a conversation, and sparks fly. The guy thinks the girl is very attractive. At the beginning of the conversation, the girl tells the guy she wore a push-up bra to catch his attention from across the room with her cleavage, and she put on makeup to enlarge her eyes, which she knew would highly arouse him. Then she tells him she will be sure to cross and uncross her legs a few times to draw his eyes to her thighs and crotch. She further explains that she will play coy by batting her eyelashes and looking down and away when he makes a strongly flirtatious move on her, figuring that will ignite his desire to chase her and make her seem more valuable to him. Finally, she tells him she will laugh a little too hard at one of his jokes on purpose, so he will feel like she really admires his sense of humor.

What do you think will go through the man’s head?

“Yes, she likes me! I am so getting laid.”

The man will not be any less aroused from knowing the games women play to manipulate his desire. In the same way, women are not any less aroused when they are aware that a man is seducing them. They will enjoy the seduction as long as he knows what he’s doing.

Caveat: There are some one-liners in the seduction community that will become so overused they could potentially blow a guy out. I’ve heard that the “Who lies more?” opener was so ubiquitous in LA at one time that women, when they heard it used on them, would laugh out loud and tell the guy to try new material. Fortunately, there is enough fresh material now that overuse should no longer be a problem. The community has grown tremendously and technology has advanced so much that a man could check his iPhone GET LAID NOW ASK ME HOW app for a suitable quickie opener *as the situation is unfolding* in front of him. That’s power at your fingertips.

As for the “player pattern” recognized by the woman who wrote the above article, I’m not aware that it’s common community advice to wait two weeks to call back a girl you’ve banged, and to call six times on Saturday, then follow up on Wednesday and Friday. This sounds more beta than PUA, as I find it’s best to call a girl you’ve banged the day after to smooth any rough edges and hold the door open for future bangs. When to call back isn’t a critical issue; as long as you’ve attracted the girl you can call back whenever you feel like it without repercussion. Just don’t pull a Swingers and call ten times the night you met her. That much should be obvious to any man with a lick of sense.





Comments


  1. Game helps, but it doesn’t really matter. What matters is a guys overall character. I think this is exactly why so many guys who use and understand game don’t get laid; women can see through it. I have yet to meet an ugly/unattractive (low social status/no resources) guy that gets laid a lot because of game.

    I’ve slept with girls that know who I am, and even criticized me because of it, but still slept with me. Why? Because they like who I am as a person, and who you are as a person is really hard to fake seeing that women are hypersensitive to someone’s true character. Even women that whine about being played by men deep down inside know that he is a player but is just hoping that he’s changed.

    Like


  2. And before someone asks: women put up with guys who they know use game because they liked the guy in the first place. I look at game as something that can help speed things up and keep you from making mistakes. However, game isn’t something that is going to make a girl like you if you’re unattractive in the first place.

    [editor: this is false. i’ve seen girls’ eyes go from cold indifference to sparkling attraction based on game tactics alone used by bland-looking guys.]

    Like


  3. “When I first learned game, I had convinced myself that once the material and tactics got out into general circulation and became widely known amongst the set of pretty girls who get hit on the most, it would mean game would lose its element of surprise and women would stop responding positively to it.”

    Did you really think this?

    Game has been going on forever.

    2000’s pick up “artists” just started attaching acronyms to everything.

    Great “gender role reversal thought experiment”.

    “I’m not aware that it’s common community advice to wait two weeks to call back a girl you’ve banged, and to call six times on Saturday, then follow up on Wednesday and Friday.”

    I was thinking the same thing.

    Sounds like “minimal Game”.

    – MPM

    Like


  4. Obviously, don’t call a girl ten times the night you met her… but one of my guy friends has a habit of texting a girl the same night he meets her to “gauge her interest and stay fresh in her mind.” He swears he keeps the texts light and funny. I keep trying to dissuade him because I think it seems needy… any thoughts?

    Like


  5. Assanova

    “Game helps, but it doesn’t really matter. What matters is a guys overall character.”

    I agree.

    If anyone knows me, my blog, or from my postings on here, I take a very holistic approach to swooping girls.

    Money. Custom Suits. Humor. Wit. Education. Style. Brutally handsome good looks. Class. Game.

    “Technical” Game is just one weapon I use. And will only get you so far. Sure it works great on lower end cute American suburban girls going out in the city, but Top flight girls will not bite on just Game.

    Style wins over technique.

    – MPM

    Like


  6. Lexi,

    Depends on context.

    If you are in a city for a few nights. It is good to collapse time frames.

    Hell, it is always good to collapse time frames.

    – MPM

    Like


  7. “this is false. i’ve seen girls’ eyes go from cold indifference to sparkling attraction based on game tactics alone used by bland-looking guys.”

    Maybe, I didn’t make it clear enough, but what I am saying, is that game can get you from point A to point B, but it isn’t going to get unattractive guys to point Z (sex). Sooner or later, his true character is going to shine through, and I believe that this is why so many guys are able to get phone numbers, but are unable to sleep with girls.

    There may be a few exceptions to the rule, as with anything, but I have yet to see it. Every PUA that I’ve seen actually getting laid (not phone numbers, and not due to dumb luck) has had something going for him that was attractive to women in the first place.

    Like


  8. I hate other women for allowing this behavior in men. They create an image in which men think ALL women want a “player” when that is far from the truth.

    Gimme a geeky, cute, quite nerd anyday.

    Like


  9. We all know guys who have a hot girlfriend who treats them like shit. They put up with it because the girl is hot.

    I think this may be an equivalent. A player doesn’t treat the girl all that well, but he makes her so incredibly wet that she puts up with it.

    Like


  10. It’s a bit like explaining to an alcoholic the exact scientific way alcohol gets them drunk and why they desire it. They can know all the science behind it and all the psychology; it won’t break them of the dependence, and they’re still going to reach for the tequila shot when times get rough.

    Like


  11. Traveller

    “The Neg under attack:”

    The “neg” isn’t really under attack.

    Because a “neg” is really just “teasing” or “making fun of someone”.

    Pretty natural part of human interaction if you think of it.

    Although, I have respect for “the pickup artists” many of the terms they come up with are just a way to create a “science” and fleece people out there that can’t get girls.

    Beware of the commercial pick up artist.

    They are just like the shamwow guy.

    You are better off taking advice from someone that does it for the art.

    – MPM

    Like


  12. @Assanova:

    “Every PUA that I’ve seen actually getting laid (not phone numbers, and not due to dumb luck) has had something going for him that was attractive to women in the first place.”

    Everyone has something going for them that’s attractive to the opposite sex. It’s about bringing it out and playing it up. Game helps with that. That’s why there are some core principles to game, yet several different types of personalities. Not all PUAs are the same. They’re similar in that more women are attracted to them than the average man.

    Of course, if he’s a beginner and is using straight techniques out of the book verbatim, it’s may not work as well as if he came up with good fresh stuff, or at least slightly more original spinoffs of old things.

    Like


  13. “I hate other women for allowing this behavior in men. They create an image in which men think ALL women want a “player” when that is far from the truth.

    Gimme a geeky, cute, quite nerd anyday.”

    When you think of player you tend to get one image in your head. Not all men behave in the same way, and not all men use game to just get loads and loads of chicks.

    Game can be used for LTRs, as Roissy has said over and over.

    Like


  14. on July 23, 2009 at 12:38 pm Willard Libby

    Assanova

    Every PUA that I’ve seen actually getting laid (not phone numbers…………..

    How in the world would you know this? How involved are you in other men’s sex lives?

    Like


  15. MPM

    “Game has been going on forever.

    2000’s pick up “artists” just started attaching acronyms to everything.”

    No doubt, plus you gotta love the fact that they co-opted an overused slang word in the 90s and successfully marketed it to all these suckers.

    Like


  16. Many people outside the community want to characterize game as something intrinsically diabolical. Game is merely a tool that can be used to improve interactions with women. It can be used to try and sleep with as many as possible, or used to ultimately find one you like and decide to get married, etc.

    The person sets the goals; game can help to achieve them.

    I hate how people bitch that game is “artificial.” How many women go to a bar with no makeup, no hairstyle, and wearing sweats? None. It’s just part of beta culture to think that what women do is natural and right, but if a man actually tries a thought out approach to attracting women, well that’s fake!

    Like


  17. “Gimme a geeky, cute, quite nerd anyday.”

    HAHAHAHAHA. Hilarious.

    Okay, what Assanova is saying is intuitive but isn’t the whole truth. Having “something going for him … in the first place,” just isn’t enough to actually seal the deal with a high-value woman. Even good-looking and tall men need to exhibit something non-tangential to convert an initial attraction into a bang. Game’s methodology hits right at that conversion rate. If a man’s character is genuinely fascinating, he still needs to master the approach, get his foot in the door, and have the opportunity to turn her on through his natural abilities. Game maximizes those natural traits and improves outcomes.

    This is especially true in an environment of high competition. When you cruise scenes with lots of good-looking women, your competition is going to be stiff, and if you’re just one of a few nominally-attractive men in a given area, you’re going to need to stand out some how. Game can give you a one-up over the competition, or at least get you up to speed with it. It goes without saying that there are a lot of good-looking men who just don’t get laid. There’s a reason why.

    Its been said before that Game won’t allow an ugly man to start banging 9s (or even 7s) immediately, but it will turn him from a sexless loser to a guy who can pull a 6 and use that success to build his confidence, and aim higher and wider. I’ve personally seen this and have counseled hapless friends who think my ability to sleep with many women is purely innate and due to nature. I got into game because I wanted to maximize my potential, and optimize my results.

    I’m sure we’ve all seen the handsome man who verbally slobbers all over a girl with compliments and needy entreaties and completely turns her off even more than an average man would, because his game is incongruent with his façade.

    Like


  18. why would girls knowing about game change anything ? game gets at the core mechanisms that build attraction within women , which is something they do not have control over . the only part of ‘game’ that become obsolete is overused mainstream openers … anyone who ACTUALLY understands game – rather than just memorization of a bunch of lines – will always be able to attract women , no matter how popular the ‘PUA’ scene or ‘game’ gets

    Like


  19. Semantics. Is “game” defined strictly within the boundaries of how the PUA community and the commercial PUAs define it, or is it broader? Is it just being a manly man, something most people know about since pre-puberty? Is it being confident and self-assured, something they taught in 10th grade Health class? Is it spewing predefined pick-up lines that have been around for years? Is it learning new pick-up lines from books and video series and blogs and seminars? Is it AMOGing and peacocking and negging and running scripts? Is it being a selfish and amoral hedonist who sees nothing wrong with manipulating other people for one’s own pleasure? Is it denigrating women and seeing them as mere pieces of meat around a revolving door of pussies?

    As for the girl who says game “works,” it seems to be a chicken-and-egg dilemma. She and her girlfriends actually have sex with these players, which in turn encourages this behavior. Perhaps this should be called “birds of a feather flock together.” Men who play the numbers game and want the most number of “easy pussy” will tailor their pick-up technique to maximize this number. So the solution? Don’t be the easy pussy. I suspect, though, that these women are drawn to the drama and highs and lows that the players provide them. So the cycle continues.

    Like


  20. How in the world would you know this? How involved are you in other men’s sex lives?

    Is it that hard to know when another man is getting laid or not? You can usually tell.

    Like


  21. I dont know about the “looks dont matter” philosophy.I have very little game,I’m flat busted,I drive a VW Jetta,dont have a great job.But women flirt,and I mean flirt with me all the time and everywhere.All types of women;married,older,attached,etc..And its all based on looks (plus the fact that I dress well).But I hesitate to contradict the experts of PUA.Somebody once told me,”women are less visually oriented than men,but their not blind.”Do looks matter,yes or no?

    Like


  22. Is “game” defined strictly within the boundaries of how the PUA community and the commercial PUAs define it, or is it broader? Is it just being a manly man, something most people know about since pre-puberty? Is it being confident and self-assured, something they taught in 10th grade Health class?

    perfectly said

    Gimme a geeky, cute, quite nerd anyday

    so you can ask his opinion about why the guy you met last friday still hasn´t called?

    Like


  23. A guy who is a complete dud will not be able to use Game successfully.

    At best, learning Game allows a guy to operate at, or a bit above, the level he ought to be at.

    It is essentially like a woman learning how to dress, apply make up and fix her hair. It is training the in art of attracting the oposite sex.

    Like


  24. when i was 16-17 and feared much more being alone with a girl than fighting two boys, despite having almost permanent boners, I was afraid that If I hit a girl she would perceive me as being interest on her.

    My youngers cousins were cured from that malaise by me, just as I was cured by their father

    Like


  25. Is that really game, getting some and then trying to set up a drunk-dial lay 2 weeks later? Or is just that her friends aren’t that attractive and like getting used?

    Like


  26. Game is based on sociobiology. That’s why it will always work, even when the participants know full well what is going on. Most people, especially the women who are responsive to Game, have zero control over their limbic system. The limbic portion of their brains is as automatic as those that control breathing and heart rate.

    The fact that Game works so well is the clearest evidence I can think of that evolution is a fact. An innate human nature exists and it is based entirely on socio-biology.

    Like


  27. Do looks matter,yes or no?

    looks matter, but for men it is easy to compensate lack of it through other attributes.

    for women, it is fixed on stone thus the resentment you see in some posts

    Like


  28. on July 23, 2009 at 1:25 pm It deepens like a coastal shelf

    Naked girls plow fields for rain

    Farmers in an eastern Indian state have asked their unmarried daughters to plow parched fields naked in a bid to embarrass the weather gods to bring some badly needed monsoon rain, officials said on Thursday.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUSTRE56M3G020090723?feedType=RSS&feedName=oddlyEnoughNews

    Like


  29. Also, as the woman says, many women seem to have a strong fantasy of “taming” the bad boy, of being the one special snowflake princess that the bad boy actually gives up being a bad boy for, and so on. Look at how many women marry men with the idea of changing the men, or molding them or what have you. This is a common theme, and at least this woman was honest enough to admit that this desire to be the one to “turn” the bad boy is a strong motivation for many of them.

    Like


  30. Beware of the commercial pick up artist

    Would that include Ross Jeffries and Carlos Xuma?

    Like


  31. There may be a few exceptions to the rule, as with anything, but I have yet to see it. Every PUA that I’ve seen actually getting laid (not phone numbers, and not due to dumb luck) has had something going for him that was attractive to women in the first place.

    This is true, but most good gurus seem to tell people that part of their personal development in game should be GETTING something going for them. Improve their looks, be a leader of men in some area, advance career, etc. One guru, can’t remember who, I remember saying if you are ashamed of your job, living situation or car, get those in order first before even learning a single routine.

    So TRUE long-term game when taught well does include getting something going for you, but if you’re defining game as just memorizing some conversational “magic bullets” and nothing else then I agree.

    Like


  32. on July 23, 2009 at 1:38 pm jack gladney

    @Ovid–It is probably not your *looks* that are getting you all the unsolicited flirting, but rather your body language and fashion sense. I have two friends in particular that are constantly getting approached by flirtatious women, and believe me, neither are that good looking. The situation has confounded me for quite some time, and I’ve done quite a bit of reflection on it, and my conclusion is that their body language and fashion sense are so tight that it is produces an “aura” across a wide range of women. A woman is “taken into his reality,” so to speak, just on first glance.

    Like


  33. Nova, its also reinforced by society. I remember the very shitty movie “The Last Days of Disco” that nonetheless had a great scene in it.

    In the movie, some stupid silly disco whore (Mandy’s mom?) is chattering about taking her niece to see “Lady and the Tramp” (the Disney flick) and how cute it was.

    A guy friend jumps in and tells her how wrong she is. See, Lady and the Tramp reinforces the idea that a girl can find the bad boy (Tramp) and literally “tame” him (since Tramp is a dog) and make him a hero and a loving father (see the last 20 minutes). Also, the movie reinforces the SWPL notion that “bad boys” are really misunderstood “good guys” and that its only society/corrupt authority figures/circumstances that make him do bad things (e.g. Tramp steals because he is poor and hungry, and is really kind to everyone but totalitarians).

    The guy friend goes on to say that then we’ll all wonder why, when she turns 18, she’s sleeping with a drug dealer or pimp. Well, she’s only doing what society taught her: that bad boys aren’t bad, are the most desireable mates, and that she can tame him through her “love.”

    It struck me as very insightful about pop culture, even though the movie is complete shit.

    Like


  34. Without strong inner Game, no amount of IOI, DHV, and negging knowledge will save you. I should know. I was an unemployed recent college graduate for almost a year, till I nabbed a very valuable job two months ago. When you’re so embarrassed about your situation, it won’t matter how good your game is.

    In college, I pulled like crazy using Game tactics because I had nothing to be ashamed about, and my self-confidence was evident. Not so when you’re struggling to get find a job. Since I started work, I’ve had success that approaches my college days. Once you’ve got your personal development taken care of, Game takes your success with women to the next level.

    Like


  35. “Do looks matter,yes or no?”

    Of course.

    All things being equal.

    Same with CASH.

    Put two Playboys head to head with equal Game, equal looks, equal everything.

    One broke, one flush.

    The flush one will defeat the broke one 90% of the time.

    – MPM

    Like


  36. amestris,

    I hate other women for allowing this behavior in men…

    Gimme a geeky, cute, quite nerd anyday.</blockquote?

    chances are you're either lying, deluding yourself, or not very attractive.

    Like


  37. @lurker- that one had a young kate beckinsale, no? i saw the movie, was not impressed, but remembered her *very well* and not that scene.

    Like


  38. @Hope:

    “Men who play the numbers game and want the most number of “easy pussy” will tailor their pick-up technique to maximize this number. So the solution? Don’t be the easy pussy.”
    Exactly.

    “I suspect, though, that these women are drawn to the drama and highs and lows that the players provide them. So the cycle continues.”
    As said in “He’s Just Not That Into You.”

    @Novaseeker:
    Exactly. But if she were able to reform him, she’d hate him for being so weak and molding to her desires.

    Like


  39. Hormoaning,

    Interesting point you brought up.

    Many aspiring Playboys have a tough time transitioning from College to The Real World (and I don’t mean that crappy show on mtv either).

    Real world Game is a lot harder than College Game.

    But the rewards are much higher.

    Many college “players” get waterloo’d in the real world.

    Get evolved out like the Dodo Bird.

    – MPM

    Like


  40. on July 23, 2009 at 2:04 pm The Snatch Whisperer

    Hormoaning nailed it. (awesome nick btw)
    Without inner confidence, game is just words.
    To quote the immortal Mike Damone ” the attitude dictates that you don’t care whether she comes, stays, lays, or prays. Whatever happens your toes are tapping”

    I know.. bullshit movie quote.. but it succinctly demonstrates inner game.

    Like


  41. G makes a good point about game always having been around. Guys have always schemed to get hot girls, it’s the internet that’s new. I have been called out more than a few times for running game, but the first few times it happened before I’d even heard of the community. What actually led me to start reading up on game was when some girl called me out on shit I was doing like ignoring her, “negging” etc so naturally I had to go learn what this was all about.

    Game will never disappear, just because Game is inherent in the natural law of human interactions. There will always be some behaviours that increase your ability to influence and manipulate other people, relative to other behaviours. Game is the process of discovering them.

    If girls in LA have heard The Cube or whatever so many times that they are calling guys out on it, that doesn’t eman the end of Game. It just means The Cube is now bad game. There will always be shit you can say to girls that will be more effective at getting their pants off than other shit.

    – Zdeno

    Like


  42. Negotiating the passage from college game to real world game can be tough. I’ve seen a lot of friends struggle.

    The problem is that window between being in college and being a successful guy with money and a life. Unemployed, living with your parents, cut off from your social circle of the past half-decade … yeah, that’ll hurt.

    Key opening line in that circumstance: “My name is Zdeno. I’m unemployed and I live my parents.”

    Like


  43. roissy,

    i think that you may have stumbled upon a new routine here….describe the exact techniques that you’ll use to woo a woman to her before you actually do it. escalate from the neg to the kino to the number close…all the while, give her examples of the kino you’ll use. describe it as if you’re telling her a story (women love stories).

    this tactic has the advantage, not only of being something different, but showing confidence. by tipping your hand you’re telling her that you have plenty of status to spare.

    like all forms of Game (and this is the major sticking point of Game), it has to be conducted smoothly.

    also, this can be a sort of give and take where you ask her to describe what she’d do *if* she were interested in *you*. she could run-down the description you wrote about the push-up bra, crossed legs etc.

    Like


  44. I think “game” is operable subconsciously too. I’ve dated noted and professed philanderers before and still allowed myself to be with them, even when I was aware half of what they were saying is bullshit. Seduction is flattery.

    Like


  45. @lurker, Mandy XD:

    “Exactly. But if she were able to reform him, she’d hate him for being so weak and molding to her desires.”

    Yes. It’s the central paradox of male-female relations, and one of the main reasons relationships fail.

    To be honest I think it’s also because women are trying to avoid the core trade-off: badboy/sex attraction vs. stability/parental investment. Rare to find both in one guy … *unless* you are able to tame a bad boy. The trouble is, as you point out, once said bad boy has been tamed, he’s no longer a bad boy, and so she’s not really getting the combo deal, but simply a former bad boy who is now a pussified beta herb husband.

    Like


  46. Game works because it ‘can’ work. Essentially, as long as there are no negative consequences for women to respond to game, it will work.

    However, many pompous idiots invoke ideas like evolution and psychology to explain it. The world around you exists not because it should exist, or is fit to exist.. but because it ‘can’ exist.

    The ability of anything to exist is beyond any single set of controls. It has more to do with probability, chance synergies and feedback mechanisms that create a viable system until the system either destroys itself or undergoes monte-carlo type random changes and morphs into something else. The underlying factors are too many and largely beyond control.

    Feelings of knowledge and control are the quintessential human delusions. Today, they are more likely to seen in self-identified “whites”, but in the past have afflicted asian cultures with disasterous long term effects.

    I do not think we can go back to the past.. the best hope is to let the situation play itself out till most idiots face reality.

    Like


  47. Z,

    “If girls in LA have heard The Cube or whatever so many times that they are calling guys out on it, that doesn’t eman the end of Game. It just means The Cube is now bad game.”

    good explanation. i’ve always been on the fence about the effectiveness of Game in the long run. the thing making me call it into question is that Game is often talked about in static terms. Men and their game have to evolve to the rest of men employing game and women as well. In the same way, women’s fashion sense changes as a response to current fashion sense. everything, even systems of seduction, evolve. they have to.

    Like


  48. on July 23, 2009 at 2:17 pm johnnymarks

    One more reason to wear a condom when banging fatties (i.e., American women):

    “The Pill may be less effective on obese women”

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090722/hl_nm/us_pill_obese_women

    Like


  49. I’ve found that running bad game will almost certainly get you called out. However, on those rare occasions when I’ve managed to run an almost perfect set, the girls are actually astounded. I once ran game on two coworkers right in front of the other. One of them later told me that a couple days later at work, they marveled at how I’d managed to pull both of their numbers no problem. I think they _knew_ what I was doing, but that fact didn’t actually register with them because they were so in state and my delivery was so smooth.

    On the other hand, I’ve been in situations with shit-testers or other assorted types who just wouldn’t let me in from the first minute. They knew I was running game and they were going to give me a damn hard time about it. Because my game wasn’t very tight those nights, I’d end up ejecting from the set.

    When you’re on, you’re on. When you’re not, that’s when girls will call you out. At least in my experience.

    Like


  50. Negotiating the passage from college game to real world game can be tough. I’ve seen a lot of friends struggle.

    The problem is that window between being in college and being a successful guy with money and a life. Unemployed, living with your parents, cut off from your social circle of the past half-decade … yeah, that’ll hurt.

    Key opening line in that circumstance: “My name is Zdeno. I’m unemployed and I live my parents.”

    If Roosh can quit his job, move into his dad’s basement, and actually improve his love life, you have no excuse for failure!

    Like


  51. @nova- i wouldn’t necessarily call it the “central paradox”, but that’s a good explanation for it. i always thought there’s something else at work there as well – the female maternal instinct, which is about molding, controlling, and instructing children, conveying morals/social values, etc. this may bleed into the “i can change him!” behavior re husbands, becuase men do *way* less of this to their wives then women try to do to their husbands. even though men show the same teaching/shaping instinct to their children. either way, it’s a major and absolutely unnecessary cause of LTR friction.

    Like


  52. Girls, in general, seem to enjoy remaining ignorant in a way that allows them to preserve the precious lies separating their delicate psyches from reality.

    For example, read this article at Jezebel http://jezebel.com/5072249/study-shows-overweight-women-have-the-most-sex and pay attention to the comments.

    Like


  53. I forgot to mention that the article in Jezebel is in response to a bit of scientific research. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090623091125.htm

    “Associations between body mass index (BMI) and relationship quality and other partner/relationship perceptions were investigated in 57 couples in New Zealand. Heavier women had lower quality relationships, which they predicted were more likely to end. They partnered with less desirable men and thought their partners would rate them as less warm/trustworthy.

    The male partners of heavier women judged the women’s bodies less positively and men rated heavier women as poorer matches to their ideal partners for attractiveness/vitality. In contrast, men’s BMIs were generally not associated with relationship functioning. These findings point to the potential mechanisms that may contribute to heavier women’s relationship difficulties.”

    Reality is a bitch sometimes.

    Like


  54. The first comment in that Jezebel thread encapsulates everything most women don’t understand about the sexual natures of men. A fat chick with a great personality is still a fat chick at the end of the day. Maybe I could become friends with the fatty, but I would NEVER want to bang her.

    Like


  55. I think one of the Jezebel girls realized what was going on. She left a comment saying that one man was hitting on her because he liked “low hanging fruit.”

    Then, of course, all the women become outraged by it. Yes, it is a reason to be frustrated, but if you don’t want to be a low hanging fruit any longer, drop the weight! It’s that easy.

    @novaseeker:
    “To be honest I think it’s also because women are trying to avoid the core trade-off: badboy/sex attraction vs. stability/parental investment. Rare to find both in one guy … *unless* you are able to tame a bad boy. The trouble is, as you point out, once said bad boy has been tamed, he’s no longer a bad boy, and so she’s not really getting the combo deal, but simply a former bad boy who is now a pussified beta herb husband.”
    I found a boy with a bit of both in him, and he isn’t one I “tamed.” I think it might be because he doesn’t know his potential, or knows it and chooses not to act on it.

    Like


  56. ””””Tarl,
    If Roosh can quit his job, move into his dad’s basement, and actually improve his love life, you have no excuse for failure!””””””’

    Yea he can work inner game mentally. Roosh chose to quit job though and do what he wanted to do. The dude getting out of college is not choosing to get out and not have job it is just his time was up and he didn’t have job.

    And of course no it doesn’t matter if a girl knows about game. Except if they are studying at roissies they could put almost an impregnable bitch shield up lol

    Except if they are studying at roissy’s they seem to want to get a man.

    Like


  57. I think I made a remark once before about how the fatter/uglier girls I knew were also the sluttiest, since they’re the first to pounce on available sex.

    Like


  58. I agree, most women have zero, ZERO capacity to grasp what Game is, even if they read a blog like this for months.

    I enjoy making a fool of Chic Noir. I always ask her to explain what Game is, and why it enables a man to bed a woman WITHOUT spending large sums of money on her, and it goes right through her vacant cranium. She still thinks that even if a man is adept in Game, that he has to “buy a drink for her in order to buy a few minutes of her time in which to sell himself to the superior female.

    That is what she (and by extension, most women) still ‘think’ (and I use the word think in the most minimal sense).

    That is why Game works.

    Like


  59. Tood, its no mystery why game works in a way where you can bed a woman without spending one paisa on her.

    Woman want to have sex. Bas.

    Does that take rocket science?

    Like


  60. Men marry women thinking they’ll never change. Women marry men thinking they’ll change them to their liking. Both are generally disapointed.

    Like


  61. on July 23, 2009 at 3:32 pm It deepens like a coastal shelf

    An aphorism for the ages, km.

    Like


  62. Most women are incapable of objective rational thought; they rely on feelings to guide them. That’s why television advertisers go after them -not because ad-men hate men, I think; they go after women because women are easily manipulated by their emotional vanity. This ain’t just true of dumb women: I’ve dated lady mathematicians and physicists -they were both fond of making choices based on their “ladies intuition.”

    Like


  63. The difference between knowing about ‘game’ and having it work might be the selling of the ‘tude, or as hope put it, is it game or more manly manness?

    Your example of how women prep to go to bars, while accurate, also isn’t relatable to game in this way: the push up bra, makeup, heels, body movements (those especially) are so ingrained they feel innate. You can tell a woman at a bar who is accustomed to presenting herself a certain way, and one who is not, and it makes a difference in the attraction response (I assume).

    A man who is smooth and blah blah with his gameness probably feels genuine so that it doesn’t read like a rehearsed playbook out to score panties, but more like manly manness a la Rhett. It doesn’t seem or feel as much like game, encouraging amoral men to trick women into sex, as the natural extension of who the man is.

    Like


  64. hmm, sometimes I wonder if this “game” is merely:
    1. saying hi to girls.
    2. having something to say.
    and eventually…
    3. portraying enough inner game to complete said swooping (going beyond a mere #close).

    Why should that be objectionable to the ladies…on the other hand, unleashing herds of sheep bleating the same lines to every gal they meet may lead to incredulous shit tests.

    Like


  65. Most women are incapable of objective rational thought; they rely on feelings to guide them. That’s why television advertisers go after them -not because ad-men hate men, I think; they go after women because women are easily manipulated by their emotional vanity. This ain’t just true of dumb women: I’ve dated lady mathematicians and physicists -they were both fond of making choices based on their “ladies intuition.”

    Oh come on, let’s not give ourselves too much credit, commercials with a hot chick in them that appeal to our cocks work just as well as commercials that appeal to women’s hearts work. Seriously, watch a few hours of Spike TV or a sporting event on TV, all the commercials boil down to “This will get you laid!” And not just dumb guys either, we all know of really powerful and smart men who make dumb decisions based on their dicks, from Bill Clinton to Albert Einstein.

    Like


  66. i think einstein had a constant boner when he was formulating the theory of general relativity.

    Like


  67. @ Joe, Lupo, et al

    Oh come on, let’s not give ourselves too much credit, commercials with a hot chick in them that appeal to our cocks work just as well as commercials that appeal to women’s hearts work.

    SRSLY.

    Re: Girls knowing game

    Note: I’m assuming we’re talking about Mystery/Lovesystems/Etc. PUA-type game, not just being a natural, here.

    It’s only an issue if you’re, um, really, really bad at it. Or if you’re running some brand of game that doesn’t work with your look/personality, and thus makes you look like a fake douchebag.

    Girls know when you’re trying to pick them up. Sorry. True story.

    The only real issue I’ve found with guys running game is when they’re fairly new to it and are running textbook game TO THE MAX. This becomes annoying because they’ll have a set conversation in their heads, and will be unable to roll with the conversation if it, say, takes a turn outside of game territory.

    Like


  68. Seriously, Einstein did a lot of thinking with his cock:

    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1150885956994

    In the letters, Einstein identifies six different mistresses by initials and first names, including his own secretary. While previous correspondences have indicated that Einstein was quite the philanderer, these new correspondences reveal a never-before mentioned mistress, Mrs. M. According to Wolff, Mrs. M lived in Berlin and was friends with Einstein’s own stepdaughter. According to Albert Einstein archivist Barbara Wolff, “Mrs. M.” has since been identified and is really Ethel Michanowski.

    According to Dr. Roni Gross, head of the Einstein Archives, Einstein may have had more mistresses than collected correspondences have revealed.

    “We have pictures of women in lounge chairs with Einstein, so there may be more lovers that have just never been mentioned,” said Gross. While Einstein partook in many love affairs, he was never discreet about them.

    “He openly talks about his love affairs in the letters to Elsa [his second wife] and Margot,” said Wolff.

    http://www.boingboing.net/2006/07/23/albert-einstein-sexf.html

    Like


  69. Novaseeker

    To be honest I think it’s also because women are trying to avoid the core trade-off: badboy/sex attraction vs. stability/parental investment.

    This is one of your major themes.

    I’d say the biggest trade off is between a man who has bad boy/sex attraction, aka charisma and game, and one who’s willing to settle down and not cheat. In most other cultures women realize that alpha men are usually going to cheat, but that it doesn’t have to spell the end of his love and sexing of his wife or the stability of their family and child rearing – unless she’s the one who makes that happen. In other words a lot of the stability tradeoff is of her own making. A lot of those sexy alphas will be stable and be a loving father who doesn’t desert her or her children, if she will let him play some, in the right kind of discrete way.

    I mean I thought the bru ha over Eliot Spitzer was absurd. He did it with a call girl most likely because he thought it would be easier to keep quiet that way. Almost all the bruha in the Anglosphere especially about politicians having affairs is I think ridiculous.

    Sure the Catholic and other churches have always (or since the earliest days anyway) been against male as well as female infidelity, the truth is until the rise of feminism and protofeminism it was always more or less expected that most alpha men would. The current views are absurd.

    If a woman really wants no cheating she’d better marry a beta. For that matter, probably not a higher beta who becomes very career successful either, thus maybe making it up into less alpha by middle age. Of course he’ll want to exercise that new found alphadom, at least it’s threshold, and have a fling. It’s a huge male drive imperative. That drive is a lot of what lead him to be successful in the first place. Sublimation only goes so far.

    Women are tempted too but it’s nothing like the same thing – and if they succumb the damage to her true continuing sexual love for her husband is very likely vastly greater, and in fact fatal.

    Like


  70. joeL “let’s not give ourselves too much credit, commercials with a hot chick in them that appeal to our cocks work just as well as commercials that appeal to women’s hearts work.”

    Commercials don’t appeal to women’s hearts; they appeal to their vanity. Commercials mostly have given up on men. You’re right though, they do tend to go for the crotch when they try at all, though, like, old truck commercials also appeal to male vanity and self conception.

    My over all point stands: women go on their “intuitions,” their emotional static. That’s why game works so well. Their primary sense organ for discerning these things is not afflicted by rational or critical thought. Which is why Roosh can move into his dad’s basement and get even more nookie.

    Like


  71. Joe–

    who make dumb decisions based on their dicks, from Bill Clinton to Albert Einstein.

    What’s dumb is the Anglosphere’s reaction to it.

    French President Mitterand was practically living with his mistress, and certainly appeared all over Paris with her, when he was in the Elysee Palace.

    Like


  72. Yeah Doug, but he’s smart enough to realize he’s living in the Anglosphere and not France and that he has to play the mistress game accordingly. When in Rome, etc…

    Like


  73. Lupo

    Which is why Roosh can move into his dad’s basement and get even more nookie.

    A one point Roosh let out that he has a really ginormous appendage. That plus his game might have something to do with it.

    Like


  74. Lupo–

    This ain’t just true of dumb women: I’ve dated lady mathematicians and physicists -they were both fond of making choices based on their “ladies intuition.”

    I’d put the emphasis more on emotional decision making as the difference.

    Intuition is a good thing.

    I think most creativity, and even thinking outside the box, starts with intuition. Then it’s got to be logic stress tested and developed for sure, and then real world tested as well. (Perhaps in that elaborate and formal way know as a scientific experiment.)

    Like


  75. Nova, exactly. This is why women can’t think clearly or rationally (Exhibit A: Mandy! XD).

    Mo: Don’t really know. All I remember is that scene. It was the deepest thought in a very shallow movie.

    Disco Sux!

    Like


  76. Commercials mostly have given up on men.

    Actually the 18-34 male demographic is one of the most valuable and desired out there. Comedy Central, Spike TV, G4, sporting events, Adult Swim, and ESPN all fight for it and air lots of male commercials about beer, liquor, video games, sneaker commercials with athlete endorsement, action movies like Transformers and GI Joe, slacker flicks like Kevin Smith and Judd Apatow movies, car commercials, gadgets like smartphones, fast food, soft drinks and junk food. When you watch shows and channels that cater to men you see a lot of men-target commercials

    My over all point stands: women go on their “intuitions,” their emotional static. That’s why game works so well. Their primary sense organ for discerning these things is not afflicted by rational or critical thought. Which is why Roosh can move into his dad’s basement and get even more nookie.

    I agree. Just saying that to be fair, we have to acknowledge our own blind spots, which is anything that will get us hot young pussy. We’re not much better when it comes to throwing rational thought out the window. All that rational and critical thought you praise in guys goes right out the window when we see a hot chick flashing skin and giving us hope we can bang her.

    Like


  77. One more thing: Never discuss game with women. Ever. If they bring up how you managed to pick them up there are plenty of good responses (shrug your shoulders, C & F, smirk, etc.). Actually discussing game is not one of them.

    I once was talking with a girl to arrange first meet and we were just talking about all sorts of stuff. At one point she brought up Strauss’ book, and I made the fatal mistake of actually talking about it – I realized later that this was what probably killed our convo (and, by extension, my chance). A vastly better response, and one that would have been more congruent with the initial pickup, would have been to accuse her that she’s trying to steal my knowledge to pick me up – and then change the topic.

    Live and learn, gents.

    Like


  78. Novaseeker–

    To be honest I think it’s also because women are trying to avoid the core trade-off: badboy/sex attraction vs. stability/parental investment.

    As well, too much is made of the bad boy or asshole version of alphadom. Most alpha’s are leaders of some sort; only some are fully assholes, much less assholes that haven’t and won’t accomplish anything. Yeah there are biker asshole alphas but most alphas aren’t those, and most girls aren’t attracted to that sort of alpha, or anyway, are more repulsed than attracted so avoid them. Most alphas do have some kind of charisma, or charm, at least to an extent. (Charm is sort of the nice guy version of charisma with assholery being at the other pole.)

    I think one of the reasons the PUA community makes so much of asshole game is that it’s relatively easy to learn. It’s a “cheap trick” that does work often, or with many girls anyway. If in the right balance.

    However confidence bordering on arrogance does work wonders, and that can have a certain asshole feel to it. As well so does dominance and getting her to emotionally and otherwise chase you. That too can be described as being “asshole” or “bad boy” but it isn’t necessarily incompatible with being stable and socially contributing/useful. Most alphas are.

    What is true though is that someone who has gotten good at working sex attraction on girls is likely to want to resume doing that, at least some after awhile, even if he does fall in love.

    As well, he’ll probably fall in love less hard. Deep head over heals in love tends to be a pretty out of control and ultimately submissive state of mind. It’s far better for the girl to be further in that head space than the guy — if he wants to stay alpha and keep her love for him burning longer term. Doesn’t mean he won’t have strong feelings including love ones. Does mean he probably won’t let them utterly dominate him. This of course is counter to the Medieval Christian ideal of male courtly love. Note well, that love was often or usually doomed and tragic – esp. for the male.

    Like


  79. on July 23, 2009 at 5:13 pm Steve Johnson

    doug1-

    “I think one of the reasons the PUA community makes so much of asshole game is that it’s relatively easy to learn.”

    I think the reason the PUA community makes such a big deal of asshole game is because it’s the most effective red pill out there.

    Someone above linked to an article about the neg under attack. One of the commenters said this:

    Oh, but that’s where you may be wrong. As men, we have everything to prove. We have to be smart, funny, charming, attractive, successful, etc. In general, women have all the selecting power, not men. Every guy knows that women get to be picky whether or not it’s fair – whether you’re a great guy.

    Negging, whether the intentions are good or bad, is manipulative. At worst, it seems like a case of sour grapes. “Oh, you think you’re too pretty for me? Well, you’ve got lipstick on your teeth.” Negging sounds like a defense mechanism for men who can’t handle rejection.

    Basically, this is a good summary of stupid AFC attitudes:

    Women pick men and this is right and good
    Men have to audition for women
    Men audition by being “charming” (yeah, like running asshole game is charming) and “successful” (Roosh never gets laid) and “smart” (dumb guys aren’t picking up?) and “funny” (this is backwards: women signal attraction by finding a guy funny not the other way around mostly)
    It’s wrong to violate this natural order

    Showing that asshole game works shows a few things:

    Men can pick women
    Women will fight for men and compete for their attention if they think the guy is worth it
    How women decide this is way different than what you think and way way different from what women say

    A guy is pretty likely to take a seminar with the person who shows him that everything he ever learned is a lie (of course, he’s also likely to react in a hostile way too but who cares, since hostile is the same as indifferent when it comes to selling books / seminar tickets).

    Like


  80. Game absolutely works.

    I can’t believe that this is still a topic of contention.
    I am sick and tired of hearing that game doesn’t work from –good looking men, rich men, and from men in bands-

    A rich man that pulls women uses rich man game.
    A good looking man pulls with his looks based game.
    A band member pulls because of the band game.

    All of the above men have developed game to suit their circumstances.
    Learning textbook game allows average (non rich, non great looking, non band) men to pull women.

    Like


  81. I have seduced women actually seduced them using game!

    Women have actually told me I was seducing them- their eyes actually light up- before game they would be looking at their watches praying for their friends to come and rescue them from me.

    If you were a gal that I was trying to hit on pregame knowledge- you would have been all too ready to go dating online.

    Before I read this shit I was the most boring vanilla “nice guy” you would have ever had the displeasure of meeting.

    Seducing women- This shit is addictive- too addictive.

    Like


  82. I agree – Badboy/Jerk game is but one avenue, but not the only one.

    The biggest key is to not be an agreeable, needy, pushover. Therefore, ANYTHING that is the opposite of this is valuable.

    This could be the Badboy/Jerk.

    This could, however, also be the charming, humorous, highly confident, NON-PUSHOVER, but still friendly, man.

    This could also be the slick, well-dressed, uber-confident, smooth Salesman type.

    Remember, the thing that will turn on the woman you are with the most, is for her to SEE you approach and banter with other women, making them giggle, etc. Your LTR’s attraction for you will just shoot through the roof.

    Like


  83. @lurker:

    Because your inexplicable hatred towards me is rational.

    Oh wait, I remember, it’s only hatred if you actually care. Why am I referenced in every single one of your posts then?

    Like


  84. Traveller,

    I’d have to disagree regarding bringing up “The Game”, or pick-up in general. I don’t think there are universal “do not talk about” subjects when you’re picking up a girl. The last guy I picked up brought up “The Game” over dinner, and not only did it totally launch into a series of fascinating conversations about sociology, seduction, and sex in general, but it also made me more interested in him to know that he was interested in improving himself on a sexual/social level, that he was able to successfully apply the ideas in the book, and that because of the success, he has experienced a variety of sex partners and, therefore, will be more likely to be able to sexually please me and know what the hell he’s doing. While he was very attractive anyhow, knowing that about him made him, in my eyes, from a “maybe…” to a “oh, yes please”.

    Like


  85. Steve Johnson–

    I think the reason the PUA community makes such a big deal of asshole game is because it’s the most effective red pill out there.

    Yeah, ok. That makes sense too. Pointed powerful counter to nice guy programming.

    @Tood–

    This could, however, also be the charming, humorous, highly confident, NON-PUSHOVER, but still friendly, man.

    You left out dominant. Dominance she will accept and is drawn to, generally but not always playful dominance esp. to begin with, is the central key to deep attraction in the vast majority of females. Playful dominance that can take her on thrilling emotional rollercoasters.

    That’s the core of what game is working to achieve, playful dominance over her, where’s she’s chasing and you’re leading, and she’s thrilled.

    Like


  86. Poetry iF–

    i was going to say something similar to Traveler, and also to LILGRL, who’s on your side of this fence.

    Seems to me the difference is between treating game a cookbook or set of canned routines to memorize, and learning the principals, and ok some routines and lines esp. in the beginning to get started. When you really learn the principles, and change yourself somewhat to apply them, it’s a totally different think.

    Esp. for a girl who knows she wants some of the right kinds of male dominance, instead of fights it.

    For those that are fighting it, showing before talking about is the way to go usually I think.

    Like


  87. @doug1:

    “Esp. for a girl who knows she wants some of the right kinds of male dominance, instead of fights it.”

    There is no difference between a girl who wants male dominance and a girl who fights it.

    The only difference is a girl who more willingly submits and one who will put up a fight before she does.

    I’m the latter, and I still want some sort of male dominance in a relationship.

    Like


  88. Further fuel for the anti-marriage fire: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090723/ap_en_mu/us_people_kelis

    Like


  89. ”””””’Wasser said Kelis is trying to secure a new record deal and hopes to begin recording new music soon. She said Rogers’ income has dipped in recent months.””””””’

    lol income dipped and paying 40k a month. It said child support to keep up her lifestyle.

    Like


  90. Doug1,

    I agree, and would add to that. Determining your goals, and then adjusting game tactics to fit them, and to meet your personality (or desired social personality), is really key to me. Reading through “The Game” meant translating everything Strauss said to a possible female perspective. Most of it translates easily and well, but not all of it.

    What I was trying to say was that you have to know the type of person you’re picking up, and you have to be able to adjust. Flexibility through experience, through dealing with a variety of different types of women (though men, in my case), is important. I don’t believe in setting things in stone when it comes to seduction. If something doesn’t work with one girl, chances are, it’ll work with another. It’s just a matter of recognizing which tactics work on which chicks.

    Mandy,

    I’ve got to disagree with you. There is a significant difference, in my experience, between a woman who recognizes she wants male dominance and a woman who fights it. Unfortunately, I tend not to spend time in the company of women that aren’t aware of their sexuality, so I don’t know many of the latter.

    One of my closer friends is a submissive. She’s not a fighter at all. She has her way-too-tall stillettos, her posture collar, her regular collar, her corsets, her daddy’s little girl outfits (which are quite cute). But she doesn’t fight. She’s not a provoker.

    But for me, nothing is as exhilarating as finding a dominant male and provoking him through seduction, through negs, banter, general teasing, and not-so-back-handed insults, to create the environment and mood I want, to make sure the single- or multiple-serving relationship has the dynamic I require.

    We’re both seeking male dominance. She doesn’t fight. I do.

    What do you define as “fighting” before submission?

    Like


  91. on July 23, 2009 at 7:08 pm The Older Man

    I’m not aware that it’s common community advice to wait two weeks to call back a girl you’ve banged, and to call six times on Saturday

    If you keep a stable of at least 5 on a “retainer” this should never happen

    Like


  92. Assanova — I don’t think most women are good judges of character, and character does not really matter to most women. What seems to matter is dominance, aggression, indifference, and approval by other women. In other words, most women are testosterone junkies. It might come in different packages and preferences but it’s there.

    Amestris — If most or even a significant minority of women “make the market” then all you’ll get is A-hole players. That’s how the sexual marketplace works. I doubt you want a cute, geeky guy, other than a LJBF “manpon.” I’ve yet to meet a woman who actually DOES things to go out and get those guys, as opposed to mouth the platitudes.

    Second Lurker’ thoughts, also Novaseekers. The only group more stupid about the opposite sex than men is women.

    Joe — TV has mostly given up on Men 18-34. Quick, name ONE series that is both highly rated and appeals to men in that demo on NBC, CBS, ABC, CW, or Fox! Heck name one show that pulls in decent (over 10 million viewers) on the broadcast networks that appeals to Men 18-34. ABC HAS NO male-skewing shows WHATSOEVER. Period. CBS has no male-skewing shows (though to be fair their older male demos post-45 push them over competitors, “adding on” to their core base of female viewers). NBC is nearly all talk or female-skewing reality junk. “Life” and “Chuck” which had mostly male viewers both pulled in 4-5 million viewers, NBC wanted to dump both but female fans went to Subway (a “Chuck” sponsor) and sent in register receipts vowing to eat at Subway each week if Chuck was renewed — which it was with a bare 13 episode order in Spring 2010. CW is all teen girl, all the time, except for the shows inherited from WB (Smallville and Supernatural). The number of chick-flicks like “Ugly Truth” outnumbers slacker comedies by a huge margin. Car commercials and those aimed at gadgets are nearly all targeted to women. [The highest rated show on TV is gay-female American Idol.]

    TV (and movies) are a female-gay ghetto. Sheer volume is nearly all female/gay. There are more female-gay networks than there are male ones. Lifetime, Lifetime Movie, Oxygen, WE, ABC Family, Out, Bravo, TLC, A&E, tru, Hallmark, and I’m probably missing some, total 11. ESPN, ESPN2, Spike, Comedy Central, History, and Discovery total 6 dedicated channels. Add to that NO BROADCAST NET oriented towards men exclusively and the picture emerges. Advertisers prefer to target only women (half of the shoppers in supermarkets are men, and subscribers to Cook’s Illustrated went from 17% to over 50% male in the last ten years) yet Supermarket checkout counters are a gay/female wasteland for magazines.

    Like


  93. Joe — TV has mostly given up on Men 18-34. Quick, name ONE series that is both highly rated and appeals to men in that demo on NBC, CBS, ABC, CW, or Fox!

    Just one?

    Okay, 2 and a Half Men.

    Like


  94. Game principals work in theory. Good Game works in practice. Even when a woman knows the principals of Game if applied effectively will work because it triggers the appropriate responses. Good Game becomes Great Game when it becomes cognitively understood and accepted by the man applying it not just a routine.

    Like


  95. Poetry–

    doug1 said: Esp. for a girl who knows she wants some of the right kinds of male dominance, instead of fights it.

    What I said there wasn’t quite right. You got what I meant Poetry; Mandy less so.

    What I should have said is “instead of fights realizing that she does.”

    I wasn’t talking about fighting weak or early or too easy signs of male dominance, to make them stronger if he’s got it. I wasn’t talking about that kind of feistiness at all, which both of your obviously enjoy. It could also be called simply shit testing. But as well can help bring about a more dramatic, heightened dynamic, mood and feelings.

    Like


  96. Poetry–

    But she doesn’t fight. She’s not a provoker.

    But for me, nothing is as exhilarating as finding a dominant male and provoking him through seduction, through negs, banter, general teasing, and not-so-back-handed insults, to create the environment and mood I want, to make sure the single- or multiple-serving relationship has the dynamic I require.

    You sound lots of fun to have to take seriously in hand.

    Like


  97. I use my knowledge of game from this blog to counteract and destroy players 🙂

    Like


  98. Nas = beta. Look at his body language in that photo. All droopy and withdrawn. No wonder he is getting raped for 44k a month.

    Like


  99. I think most creativity, and even thinking outside the box, starts with intuition. Then it’s got to be logic stress tested and developed for sure, and then real world tested as well. (Perhaps in that elaborate and formal way know as a scientific experiment.)

    Intuition is nothing special. It’s basically only guesswork based on past experience. Creativity is just random tinkering with the parameters of a system. (Groundbreaking innovations often simply involve changing some aspect of an existing mental model at a high level of abstraction.) The majority of creative thought is rubbish that gets discarded at closer inspection. Creativity may appear intuitive as it may be a highly automatic process in some individuals.

    Creative genius is essentially the product of deep and structured understanding of a subject matter and great mental agility allowing random mutations of thought to occur at a high speed and – owing to the robustness of the mental model – proceed in productive directions unusually often.

    Like


  100. http://perezhilton.com/2009-07-23-kelis-cores-one-from-the-judge

    Nas has to pay Kelis $55,000/month and the mortgage. Yikes.

    Like


  101. doug1,

    Thank you. I do my best to please… I just go about it in different ways than most women.

    As to the topic of “fighting”, yes, I understood what you meant. But it is difficult for people to separate their sexuality from their social being, I think women even more so. The general distaste people seem to have for women being aware of their sexuality and exploring its nuances makes it doubly hard for a woman to realize what she wants (whether it is male dominance, sexual equality, or, gasp, male submission), and then reconcile herself to it.

    Like


  102. Joe that’s extremely unlikely. Sitcom viewers are 80% women. Men hardly watch them (Nielsen had a minor controversy in 2004 when it changed it’s ratings system and men were suddenly dropped out quite a bit, but even before then men were fairly absent from TV).

    Compared with the 1980’s shows like Miami Vice, or Hunter, or Magnum PI, or the A-Team, or 1970’s shows like the Rockford Files or Vega$ you don’t see anything like that today on the broadcast networks.

    ABC is female soaps like LOST or Desperate Housewives or Greys Anatomy. NBC is crappy reality stuff and “Mercy” (nurses instead of doctors Greys Anatomy rip-off). CW is all teen girl all the time. Fox is crappy, mostly older skewing reality shows and animated sitcoms with a few female oriented dramas (House, Bones). CBS draws older viewers, mostly women but some men. It’s the Bruckheimer factory. CSI formual. Look at the TV Guide website or Television Without Pity and see how female oriented it is. Indistinguishable from E! in tone and content.

    By averages, TV should have half it’s shows male oriented (Broadcast nets alone). It doesn’t even have that. It became like Broadway a gay-female ghetto. Movies are nearly as bad. For ever Apatow slacker comedy, there’s about three chick flicks, two female-skewing “serious” dramas (Crash, Milk) and three noxious female-skewing indie movies (Rachel Getting Married, Pieces of April, Margot at the Wedding).

    Like


  103. Whiskey, stop moving the goalposts. You’re all over the place and introducing a bunch of things we weren’t originally arguing about. You asked for ONE, I repeat ONE, example of a highly rated show on broadcast TV catering toward men. I gave it to you. You cannot argue that Two and a Half Men’s viewership is predominately female.

    The rest of your argument has nothing to do with my point.

    Like


  104. on July 23, 2009 at 8:18 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Whiskey – you have to watch the FOX show, HOUSE.

    House is poplar precisely because the main character is an unapologetic, politically incorrect alpha with a capital A.

    Like


  105. on July 23, 2009 at 8:19 pm HUNGRY HUNGRY HIPPOS YO

    I wouldn’t mind if they caught onto the one liners and scripted shit. The only important things to know are what types of men get ginas tinglin and emulating aspects of their behavior that make them attractive to women without compromising your actual personality. I find most of the one liners, routines, peacocking, canned stories really stupid and agree with Game’s detractors on those points. I cringe everytime I overhear some asshole telling girls about how his super-model ex-girlfriend is stalking him and leaving him creepy love letters. However, I feel men are entitled to the truth about what sexually arouses women after having been lied to for so long. You don’t need to know the ring/palm reading routine or wear 6 inch shoes, a hat, and nail polish, you need to know that tall, masculine, socially dominant, aggressive who speak to women they’re attracted to in a mildly condescending, cocky, but playful, funny, and not abrasive manner are the men who pull the most pussy, not the unwaveringly committed, supplicating, worms who exalt individual women and shower them with sappy, cliched affection, gifts, and money as the media, our mothers, gay men, and women keep telling us over and over again. Men need to be taught this, as obviously our fathers stopped teaching this our their influence is mitigated by the groups above. Women should be happy about men learning game on a widespread level, game naturally teaches men to raise their value to appear more attractive to women, not just to fake high value.

    Imagine if there was a movement where multiple millions of fat women who had been unsuccessful with men got on rigorous weight loss programs, put much more effort into their appearance through fashion, cosmetics, diet, and surgery and programmed themselves to be more feminine instead of the “you go girl” attitude. We’d all be delighted, not saying, “BUT SHE’S REALLY A FAT CHICK ON THE INSIDE”. Even though social status is one of the things that drives female attraction to men and social status is relative, this is essentially analogous to game becoming more widespread.

    Like


  106. Heck, I’ll even answer another of your questions if you want:

    Heck name one show that pulls in decent (over 10 million viewers) on the broadcast networks that appeals to Men 18-34.

    The Unit recently surpassed 10 million viewers on one of its recent episodes. Family Guy and the Simpsons both place in the top 10 regularly as well. That’s three shows that satisfy your question that you claimed I wouldn’t be able to find one example to respond with.

    Now if you want to argue TV predominately caters to women, I can agree, but not to your 80% numbers. However where I don’t agree is this idea that TV and madison avenue have “abandoned’ men altogether. It’s simply not true.

    Like


  107. Okay, 2 and a Half Men.

    Even that show portrays the male adult characters as quasi-losers. Even if one of them succeeds regularly with women, he is always sucking up to them or apologizing to them.

    Crap, I say.

    Compare that to, say, Face from the A-Team. Or Fonzie. Or Captain Jean-Luc Picard. Now THESE were real Alpha role models.

    Television is mostly for women. This is because parasites on child support watch TV all day. Cut off child-support= alimony theft, and these women will have to work, causing the collapse of many TV channels.

    Like


  108. Whiskey – you have to watch the FOX show, HOUSE.

    House is poplar precisely because the main character is an unapologetic, politically incorrect alpha with a capital A.

    Or the show 24 with Jack Bauer.

    Honestly Dave, I’ve given Whiskey dozens of examples of previous threads, but he can’t seem to think outside of apocalyptic doomsaying and bleak exaggeration.

    Like


  109. Tood, if you want to say TV is MOSTLY for women, I agree. If you want to say it’s to the tune of 80% or 100% for women, that’s where I say the exaggeration starts.

    And in 2 and a Half Men, it’s not PC or pro-woman. The only one who routinely gets made into an ass kisser of women and tool is the beta character. The alpha cad always gets his way and wins in the end. The only time things go bad for the alpha cad is precisely when he tries to be more PC and sensitive and “nice guy.” It very much destroys “pretty lies.”

    Like


  110. Joe,

    I think entertainment shows are 80% for women. Sports, of course, are watched by men. Non-fiction educational shows, like Nova and National Geographic, might be slightly more male than female.

    TV news = leftism = women.

    On 2.5 men, the ‘cad’ Charlie Sheen character is still seen as a loser. He is not someone a male viewer would want to be. Compare him to Fonzie, and there is no contest.

    Like


  111. Well I hope tv is not geared towards men because it is bad for your health anyway. Guys shouldn’t be watching tv. Movies no biggie. To sit there and absorb commercials all day is going to warp your mind.

    ””””aoefe
    Game principals work in theory. Good Game works in practice. Even when a woman knows the principals of Game if applied effectively will work because it triggers the appropriate responses. Good Game becomes Great Game when it becomes cognitively understood and accepted by the man applying it not just a routine.”””””””’

    Interesting,

    ”””””””Anonymous
    I use my knowledge of game from this blog to counteract and destroy players ”””””””””

    Or maybe ya don’t see above. he he he

    Was talking to my buddy about the naz thing he doesn’t think naz is making 500k a year.

    Like


  112. @HHH

    Imagine if there was a movement where multiple millions of fat women ……………… put much more effort into their appearance through fashion, cosmetics, diet, and surgery and

    whoa!!! ….. exactly what surgery are you expecting?

    Like


  113. “Two and a Half Men” is a hit and miss, depending on the episode. Some are dreadful and it’s obvious they were written by feminists. Like when Charlie — completely out of character — gets a puppydog crush on a “very mature, accomplished woman” who happens to be a female judge. While Alan charms the cougars with his metrosexuality.

    The most brilliant episode of “Two and a Half Men” was when the boy Jake said something sexist (and hillarious + true) in front of a bunch of feminists.

    Beta Alan tried to grovel and apologize for the boy, while the feminists got angrier and angrier. Charile then swooped in, charmed them, played one harridian against the other, appealed to each woman’s vanity and envy of the others… and next thing you know the feminists are drinking and dancing at Charlie’s house.

    … while Charile gets the hell out of dodge.

    Get the writer of that episode an Emmy.

    Like


  114. I’m wary of ostensibly pro-men shows like House. I don’t watch then often enough to have a formed opinion on this. But my impression is that the follow the standard Leftist script of a white superman, cool non-whtie guys, and a sea of loser regular white guys.

    Like


  115. From my experiences almost all women enjoy, love, perhaps even desire deeply to be dominated by a strong man. So many of my lovers have told me how rare it was for them to find a man who was not afraid to be sexually uninhibited, controlling and dominating in and out of bed. When they found one they went wild with desire. Most women want to be the ones led, the ones fucked, the ones who are submissive. I believe it taps into the deeper parts of their femininity, the parts that so much of modern society has stifled in our ridiculous and fanatical notions of “equality”. It is that part of a woman’s psyche and being that creates the desire for her to be taken care of, sexually and financially, to be the one who is concerned about children and home (whether she gets married or not) and not going out into the masculine world and “hunting” for resources like a man (I am firm believer that we are exactly the same creatures as our prehistoric hunter/gather ancestors. The problem is that modern industrialized society and technology has short circuited these hard wired parts of our brains, causing us so much havoc now). Most women I have known have expressed so much contempt for their ex boyfriends or husbands and how weak and sniffling they become in the face of a woman’s shit tests. Fail too many shit tests and her pussy is going to dry up. Be a strong, dominating male and you will find ample pussy. Dominate or be dominated and then despised. Nothing new for this blog, but something always worth repeated because it is so true in its simplicity. Through strength combined with passion and love, especially good, intense fucking over a period of a few months, I have personally turned many a “strong” woman into a quivering mass of teenage like, teary eyed, love soaked sentimentality. It is amazing how quickly the once career obsessed, masculine oriented American woman will start dreaming of the white picket fence and little babies when she is a well fucked woman.

    There is a plethora of women out their starving for strong men to dominate them in different ways. Most guys lack the balls though to find and dominate them. Most guys then earn a woman’s contempt. This is one of the reason’s why so many women are so easy to seduce, because they are so dissatisfied with their weak boyfriends or husbands and crave something more purely masculine. For those with the inner steel and balls to take risks, enjoy the delightful and delicious fruits of your conquests.

    Like


  116. on July 23, 2009 at 8:41 pm Dave from Hawaii

    You don’t need to know the ring/palm reading routine or wear 6 inch shoes, a hat, and nail polish, you need to know that tall, masculine, socially dominant, aggressive who speak to women they’re attracted to in a mildly condescending, cocky, but playful, funny, and not abrasive manner are the men who pull the most pussy, not the unwaveringly committed, supplicating, worms who exalt individual women and shower them with sappy, cliched affection, gifts, and money as the media, our mothers, gay men, and women keep telling us over and over again. Men need to be taught this, as obviously our fathers stopped teaching this our their influence is mitigated by the groups above. Women should be happy about men learning game on a widespread level, game naturally teaches men to raise their value to appear more attractive to women, not just to fake high value.

    Here here the Hungry Hungry Hippos!

    A lot of folks reference my past posts on this blog about “LTR GAME.”

    It’s really not complicated..really.

    You just have to maintain self-awareness to strive for being masculine, socially dominant, aggressive who speak to women they’re attracted to in a mildly condescending, cocky, but playful, funny, and not abrasive manner.

    “Beta-izing” in a relationship is subconsciously or perhaps even deliberately becoming the overly committed, supplicating, worm who exalts his individual women and showers them with sappy, cliched affection, gifts, and money as the media, our mothers, gay men, and women keep telling us over and over again.

    Don’t be that guy.

    Like


  117. on July 23, 2009 at 8:42 pm HUNGRY HUNGRY HIPPOS YO

    “anonymous
    @HHH

    Imagine if there was a movement where multiple millions of fat women ……………… put much more effort into their appearance through fashion, cosmetics, diet, and surgery and

    whoa!!! ….. exactly what surgery are you expecting?”

    lipo, breasts, facelifts, botox, etc. It’s sort of a lazy-copout, but women do these things to be more attractive and it works even though some men don’t approve.

    Like


  118. Besides who are all those beer commercials

    Mosty “guy commercials” either do to the crudest appeals to T&A, or aim for the male audience members to make fun of “that other guy.” It’s funny, until we realize that we all are “that other guy” in the advertisers’ mentality.

    By the way, here is a no-bullshit man commercial. What are the chances of it airing in the United States?

    Like


  119. on July 23, 2009 at 8:57 pm Dave from Hawaii

    PA – yeah, there are definitely PC/SWPL themes found in House.

    But for the most part, it is very entertaining to watch because 95% of the time House continually mocks SWPL sensibilities, and he is always dominant in his dialogue, and is downright unapologetic for it.

    I believe a show like House is popular because in fact his social dominance is certainly attractive to the Female segment.

    Other than sports, it is the only Network TV show I bother to watch (and that only after recording it on the DVR to fast forward all of the mind-stultifying idiocy of commercials).

    Like


  120. 95% of the time House continually mocks SWPL sensibilities, and he is always dominant in his dialogue, and is downright unapologetic for it

    That is cool. I only saw one episode though. One really good pro-masculinity show, completely beyond politics or SWPLness, was “Prison Break.” I only watched the season where they are in that Panamanian prison.

    I think it had an amazingly realistic and unsentineltal portrayal of machiavellanism in action, studies on the dynamisc of leadership and alliance-making, and power struggles between the strong and the wily.

    It also showed that strong is good. But strong and intelligent is better.

    Like


  121. on July 23, 2009 at 9:03 pm Dave from Hawaii

    4. Men suck at shopping, finding deals, and paying attention in general.

    So says the woman who has not had a meaningful, intimate relationship with a man she truly respected.

    See, men who are shopping for things for which they are passionate about, will go above and beyond the mere petty contrivances of a stupid, self-centered ditz like yourself who thinks you have some sort of femi-centric superiority in discriminating between the sale price of various fruits and vegetables.

    Try going shopping with a man to buy a car…a gun…a fishing pole…a baseball glove…whatever. You would quickly see that this last statement of yours is beneath even your previously shown level of usual stupidity.

    Like


  122. Re: Creative Genius

    Ordinary people benefit from being able to “concentrate” their attention on whatever subjects they are assigned to deal with. Whatever. The world needs lots of accountants.
    Truly interesting results, otoh, come from the sort of people who cannot so easily control their own minds and so end up obsessing like a motherfucker on subjects that no one else has even begun to take seriously

    Like


  123. Compare that to, say, Face from the A-Team. Or Fonzie. Or Captain Jean-Luc Picard. Now THESE were real Alpha role models.

    Fonzie was not an alpha role model. He was a tool. Hung around with high-school dorks like Ritchie, Pottsie, and Malph, spent a lot of time in a toilet at a diner, lived in a cramped crappy room over a garage, did not drink or smoke, voted Republican, and clearly only got women as a plot device (why and how he got women, is not explained and not obvious from his appearance or behavior).

    Like


  124. Roissy. I’ve skimmed your blog.

    Your prose lacks substance. I am most definitely not religious, but if I had to chose a word, I would say it lacked soul. And heart of course, but that is ‘a given’. It misses that which would make it interesting. I’m sure your eager sychophants like it, trailing after your Superman for hope and inspiration. But popularity is so transparent. Why bother? The clock’s ticking, party boy. Your cock won’t satisfy your appetite forever.

    If you really are as clever as you wish people to think you are, then there should be more than this posing comicbook anti-hero, surely? But, as your unhappy, nihilistic generation is so fond of saying; whatever. Just don’t come crying to the adults when you find out why and it’s too late.

    Like


  125. on July 23, 2009 at 9:08 pm Dave from Hawaii

    why and how he got women, is not explained and not obvious from his appearance or behavior

    Tarl, are you kidding? He continually rocked the house by hitting the jukebox to play music so no one else would have to pay…

    …and he got all the girls because they all wanted nothing more than to have a ride on his motorcycle.

    Like


  126. Name

    You have a fat wife. There are worse things. You could have a swamp-worm slowly eating its way through your brain, leaving you gradually evermore a twitching, drooling, incontinent, wheel-chair-bound geek.

    Like


  127. Roissy’s post practically read my mind. Ive had those exact same thoughts when first contemplating what Game was……………………only to dismiss them when I really ran the thoughts to their conclusions.

    Game is really worth reading about, even if a man never runs a set. It will help him understand women’s social wants and concerns and to understand social dynamics of mixed-sex groups better, which can enable him to be a more enjoyable host or conversationalist amongst friends and aquaintances even if he is happily married and not hitting on anyone.

    I’d recommend the Mystery Method, the book, to any young guy.

    Like


  128. ””””’Name,
    nihilistic”””

    Don’t ya think people have become nihilistic because everything in life is transparent. If you where so smart you would have figured that out already. We are just trying to come up with ways to bring some meaning to life and ways to make it interesting that an intelligent person understands has none.

    Rather than just being made slaves to a meaningless existance.

    Like


  129. kim

    Nas has to pay Kelis $55,000/month and the mortgage. Yikes.

    Child support my ass. This he’s COMPELLED to pay by force of arms.

    By the feminazi family law system matriarchy.

    People should start getting shot.

    Rebellion.

    Like


  130. I’d like to add this for Game skeptics:

    Do you pump iron? (I do and have for years—full disclosure).

    Then you are running some rudementerary game. You are making your body look better than it naturally would. You know the ladies appreciate those broad shoulders, thick pecs, flared triceps, veined and swollen biceps. You are not in there in that spare bedroom with the weightbench because that cream-colored paint on the walls looks so pretty, or you dont go to the gym with the boys because you can’t hang out with your pals anywhere else. Dont give me any of that “it makes me feel better about myself or sense-of-wellbeing-” bullshit either. Unless you are a professional athlete or martial artist, you are pumping iron to look better for the ladies.

    Game doesn’t necessarily mean dishonest. Its a way to behave that ladies find more attractive. If youve ever told a pal to “speak up, man up, look her in the eye, tell her some jokes, make her laugh, go ahead and ask her for her phone number”, youve cajoled someone to use strategy to connect with the opposite sex.

    I had first heard about Ross Jeffries’ stuff before I’d heard of the Mystery Method, and thought “weasel words” or using subconcious denotations of words to arouse sensual moods in women was “kinda sneaky”, so it put my mind in “skeptical mode” when first reading this blog and about Game in general………………….but I gave it a chance. Its not dishonest (or doesn’t have to be unless you make it so—-you know if your lying).

    Game can help a young man attract a young lady WORTH knowing, win her love, and keep her love. There is nothing wrong with that. Older women tell younger women all about how to deal with young men and keep them. None of us guys pooh pooh our grandmas for offering our sisters and cousins advice on getting/keeping the young beaus they want do we?

    I look at the Mystery Method and similar works as a set of instructions on how to be a more attractive guy out there trying to attract a lady. You wouldn’t go play that first softball game this season without visiting the batting cage and taking a little-infield would you? Believe in getting any practice in? Then having a few status-building stories from your own past and having a few teasing negs and jokes memorized, and some physcial behaviors memorized, and conversational framing tactics memorized beforehand to move the interaction along through dull spots isn’t such a bad thing is it?

    Using roofies would be dishonest, or outright hypmotizing someone (if thats possible). I dont think game is. I do admit Im not a fan of AMOGGING other guys in a gal’s social group or “boyfriend destroying” (Tyler Durden), but other than that………………..if she’s at a club, she probably wants to play.

    Like


  131. Yea I guesswhy “fake mc’s they always act hard but can’t walk the streets without there bodyguard.”

    Obviously naz did not read this website. His girl had game.
    Divorce finalized 1 day after baby born.
    She only stayed exactly enough time to get pregnant. I mean shit shouldn’t the lawyer be able to do something in a case as obvious as this one of fraud.

    Like


  132. PA–

    I’m wary of ostensibly pro-men shows like House. I don’t watch then often enough to have a formed opinion on this. But my impression is that the follow the standard Leftist script of a white superman, cool non-whtie guys, and a sea of loser regular white guys.

    I’ve watched House some, mainly torrents. (Saw an episode with Bhetti once, took twice as long as the commerical stripped time, almost, due to our mutual quipping. But fun.)

    The romance between black working class raised Foreman and gorgeous white 13 (who’s a 10) is pretty irritating and improbable. So is Foreman’s being on House’s all star team, much less being his star trainee / team member. You’re right that there is no strong while male under house. The Aussie is metzo, not a pussy though rather a pretty boy, and protrayed as the least intelligent of the bunch. House is a decidedly and majorly flawed superman as well. Yeah, mentally. But socially he’s Aspergery and never actually follows through on sex with any non hookers.

    It’s like it’s a crime to have a clear sexually and mental strong and dominant white male hero on TV serials these days. Almost.

    Like


  133. Doug, you and Bhetti actually met? That’s cool! sounds like her family must have been fine with you as well.

    Like


  134. When I know I am the object of an attempted seduction, I usually start analyzing how he is going about trying to reel me in and end up laughing so hard on the inside that it’s just not sexy anymore. I want someone who is beyond seduction and wants to make a real connection.

    Like


  135. Men suck at shopping, finding deals, and paying attention in general.

    Wrong again, Baba-Yaga.

    Men get the best deal, by not buying useless crap that women are dumb enough to buy.

    Go to any expensive retail store. 80% of the items there are things no straight man has any interest in buying.

    Plus, men aren’t the suckers who are interested in buying houses far larger than necessary, just to impress their cackling harpy female friends.

    Like


  136. Savvy, you don’t know what you’re saying unless you’re into arranged marriage or something…which is probably not far away in the Christian community.

    Otherwise, what you really want is someone who’s “seducing” you into a deal that you’re actually interested in.

    Like


  137. Wow.

    Nas did get raked over the coals:

    “So much for the original $20,000 a month she was asking for—or for the one-time payment of $20,000 proposed by Nas’ attorney (K-Fed legal eagle Mark Vincent Kaplan) until the divorcing duo had reached a permanent settlement.

    Instead, Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Louis Meisinger deemed $39,498 per month a more righteous sum, based on Kelis’ income declarations, and also ordered Nas (full name Nasir Jones) to fork over another $45,000 for Kelis’ attorney fees.”

    http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b135676_kelis_baby_banking_on_nas_big-time.html

    Like


  138. It’s like it’s a crime to have a clear sexually and mental strong and dominant white male hero on TV serials these days. Almost.

    Well that isn’t a race thing. TV shows in general are skewing toward morally ambiguous “grey” characters all the time. No one of any color is hardly allowed to be unambiguously good and strong. That’s not antiwhite it’s just general misanthropy regardless of race. Foreman for example is no prize either with his racial grievances and major chips on his shoulder. So House not being unambigiously good or having foibles is not proof of conspiracy against white male characters since all the characters regardless of race or gender are flawed.

    Like


  139. The romance between black working class raised Foreman and gorgeous white 13 (who’s a 10) is pretty irritating and improbable.

    Also, while I agree with you about the black doctor being a superstar as being improbable, the black guy fucking a white 10 isn’t, especially if he has a prestigious job and they live somewhere liberal.

    Like


  140. You know what Whiskey, I give up. No proof is ever good enough for you. Okay, Two and a Half men is a predominately female watched show that celebrates betaness. The Unit is a show for women and somehow conspires against white men too. Whatever.

    Like


  141. Dear girls,

    we should all know by now, the key to actually landing a player is indifference. act like you don’t care if he likes you… treat the player that you DO want the same way you treat the desperate dude that always hits on you!

    works every time 😉

    Like


  142. Yea g how many shows has he done this year?
    Did he even make that much.

    Like


  143. Game doesn’t necessarily mean dishonest.

    I suppose game is partly about playing your cards right and presenting what you got in the best way, but as I understand it, the essence of game is deception. Negs are dishonest because we don’t actually mean them, for example. Pumping iron is not game in my book because it is costly and honest. “Game” is the term for shortcuts to bedding women without the actual hard work at becoming what they traditionally want, or rather putting some of that effort into figuring out how to trick women irregardless of whether you actually have the substance. If you do have it, then you don’t need game. Game is all about utility; honesty is irrelevant. Whatever works is right.

    I have noticed some PUAs tend to downplay the deceptive aspects of game, and I disagree with this. Instead we should admit to ourselves at least (if not to girls) that we are not just trying to objectively improve ourselves here. Getting laid is far more important than honesty. Game is inherently deceptive and that is perfectly all right. While women might not be able to tell the difference, they are objectively, genetically better off mating with a natural because their sons will otherwise also likely be feckless with women without game and learning game is unlikely. That is solely the female point of view and while I understand their aversion to game on that basis, it is obviously not a concern of the inferior male. I will be laughing all the way to the maternity ward (despite child support).

    Like


  144. “Two and a Half Men” is a hit and miss, depending on the episode. Some are dreadful and it’s obvious they were written by feminists. Like when Charlie — completely out of character — gets a puppydog crush on a “very mature, accomplished woman” who happens to be a female judge. While Alan charms the cougars with his metrosexuality.

    The most brilliant episode of “Two and a Half Men” was when the boy Jake said something sexist (and hillarious + true) in front of a bunch of feminists.

    Beta Alan tried to grovel and apologize for the boy, while the feminists got angrier and angrier. Charile then swooped in, charmed them, played one harridian against the other, appealed to each woman’s vanity and envy of the others… and next thing you know the feminists are drinking and dancing at Charlie’s house.

    … while Charile gets the hell out of dodge.

    Get the writer of that episode an Emmy.

    I read an interview with the creator of Two and a Half Men once, and he said that the shows where Charlie acts beta are still consistent with the other episodes. The philosophy of the show he says is “No good deed goes unpunished.” So in those episodes where he embraces the nice guy, beta thing to do, it always blows up in his face. When he rejects his inner beta and goes alpha asshole, he wins. So if you think of those “feminist” episodes like when he gets couples counseling, the women gang up on him and emasculate him and it proves to be a horrible mistake. He acts sensitive for once and pledges to marry a woman and that blows up in his face too. Sooner or later he always goes back to his old alpha asshole ways. So even when Charlie seems like he’s getting wussified in “feminist-written” episodes, those episodes are still consistent with the shows anti-beta message. No good ever come out of Charlie’s occasional moments of beta-weakness.

    Like


  145. ”””””’amanda
    Dear girls,

    we should all know by now, the key to actually landing a player is indifference. act like you don’t care if he likes you… treat the player that you DO want the same way you treat the desperate dude that always hits on you!

    works every time ””””””””

    No it doesn’t. Game doesn’t work for chicks. Nooooooooooooooo
    noooooooooooooooooo

    why you got to test em with horses for long term. Per racer x

    Like


  146. @ Lance

    I find quirky men, and men who don’t have conventional good looks attractive. What’s so hard to believe about that? I’d grade myself to be a 7. But what does it matter? Why would I lie?

    Like


  147. Gunslingergregi

    “Yea g how many shows has he done this year?
    Did he even make that much.”

    Beats me.

    But $40k per month will get relentless after a while.

    That is almost half a stick per year.

    Ruthless.

    – MPM

    Like


  148. She says: Ooooooh I love it when you Keno escalate!

    Like


  149. @Gunslinger:

    That’s what you want women to believe.

    Game does exist for women; it’s that 1% that exists outside her looks.

    😛

    Like


  150. That would work aoefe.

    Like


  151. @gunny

    Excellent! And I’d follow it up with “I’m feeling like we could go to A3 are you?”

    Like


  152. on July 23, 2009 at 11:46 pm Ferdinand Bardamu

    amanda:

    “Dear girls,

    we should all know by now, the key to actually landing a player is indifference. act like you don’t care if he likes you… treat the player that you DO want the same way you treat the desperate dude that always hits on you!

    works every time ;)”

    Classic female solipsism – thinking that what works for men will work for women. If you treat a player – or any quality man – with indifference, he will dismiss you.

    Like


  153. What is A3?

    Like


  154. For examples of alpha men on TV, watch Deadwood, The Wire, The Sopranos, Generation Kill, or Hung. Seems like HBO is all about the alpha males.

    And what a surprise, alpha males are more interesting to watch! They fight wars, go on adventures, are ruthless businessmen, tough cops/criminals, etc.

    Now, if more shows like these aren’t being made, my guess is that it’s on the demand side (people demanding more feminized schlock).

    As for comedy, I think the lack of alpha males might have to do more with what makes for good comedy vs. feminist indoctrination.

    For instance, the Office. Michael Scott is a beta, right? And when Charles Minor came in, he cleaned everything up, made the pussies drip, and was a total alpha. Unfortunately he wasn’t funny.

    On the other hand, Dwight is alpha in his own bizarre way and he does bang Angela. If the Office writers were uber-feminists then I don’t think they’d have beta provider Andy being cuckolded by alpha Dwight.

    Like


  155. Mandy, mandy, mandy what am I going to do with you? Have you not studied Mystery’s gaming strategy? You’ve been too busy studying politics and history I guess. A3 is moving towards qualifying your target. Just before C1 – building comfort. You eventually get to S1 but don’t go there if you’re not going to S3. Or watch out you’ll trigger her ASD. Got it?? 🙂

    Like


  156. For examples of alpha men on TV, watch Deadwood, The Wire, The Sopranos, Generation Kill, or Hung. Seems like HBO is all about the alpha males.

    I’ve mentioned all of those before, along with examples like The Shield, The Unit, Rescue Me, 24, House, Burn Notice, The Tudors, Sons of Anarchy, and a whole lot more.

    Somehow they all get explained, especially by Whiskey, to be:
    *outliers
    *secretly female-oriented shows in disguise
    *anti-male
    *secretly anti-white
    *invalid because there’s one black or female portrayed positively
    *actually a beta character
    *whatever other excuse they can come up with to allow the persecution complex to continue

    Don’t bother making the case there are white alphas anywhere in the media.

    Like


  157. I don’t watch very much TV, but from what I’ve seen of House it doesn’t strike me as a male orientated show. Along those lines all the House fans I know are female. None of my buddies watch or discuss House.

    I could be wrong, like I said I hardly watch TV anymore.

    I just scrolled up and saw PA’s comment about House, and it seems pretty dead on from what I’ve seen. It also just occurred to me that all the women I know who love House love Dr. House specifically, who is an arrogant and caustic SOB. They also universally love Simon on American Idol, the one judge who will happily rip someone’s heart out and stomp on it for all America to see. These characters are the exact opposite of the “nice guys” they say they wish they could date.

    But then that’s not a surprise, is it? You’ll get more tail as a tattooed drunk who slaps women around than as a nice, stable, boring beta with a solid career. And women make fun of men for going after T&A…

    Like


  158. “Don’t bother making the case there are white alphas anywhere in the media.”

    Hmm.

    Isn’t Whiskey’s point that the shows are designed to appeal to women? Hence positive or core portrayals of alphas and women, and negative portrayals of betas (meaning most men). The plotline, for example, of an empowered woman cuckolding her beta husband for a sexy alpha is quite feminist, because it underscores female sexual empowerment, autonomy and freedom — core feminist values.

    In any case, the reality is that men *have* largely stopped watching TV in favor of the internet and interactive entertainment. Does that men no men watch TV, or that there are no male-oriented shows? No, but the trend is there nonetheless.

    Like


  159. Ferdinand Bardamu wrote …
    “Classic female solipsism – thinking that what works for men will work for women. If you treat a player – or any quality man – with indifference, he will dismiss you.”

    I don’t know if it qualifies as a solipsism but it is classic, and I would say feminist, female “thinking”. What the fems want to deny is that there are fundamental psychological and physical-needs differences between men and women. By “equality” they mean equality, reality be damned. The failure to accept and “celebrate” (to use the PC term) our differences leads to such non-sense as calling a man that sleeps around a slut, or a women an alpha, etc. Men can’t be sluts because the psychology does not apply. Note that a man who sleeps around has *higher* value and a guy who can’t get laid has zero value — TO WOMEN. Also, women are not alphas because they do not pursue and are instead ranked on the brutally objective 1-10 scale, much to the fems dismay. As I always say, its not a double standard its a different standard for men and women because we are fundamentally different.

    Like


  160. DT: Just to point out for any confused members of the audience.

    House and Simon are massively different from a tattoed drunk who slaps women around. House and Simon are more like someone like you, who will go ‘Silly woman, who I am much more intelligent and selective than, look at you with this drunkard. Thou art not worth my time.’

    Of course all my medical friends love watching House, usually as the best. Male and female. Female openly acknowledging wanting him, males suppressing wanting to be him.

    Simon’s a flipping softie with perhaps deliberate vulnerable moments and so’s House in his ‘saving lives and empathising with my patient, here!’ get out card. One that sticks out is his walking a mile in autistic kid’s shoes. But a lot of episodes do this.

    I remember Dave from Hawaii saying yelling at his wife was being a jerk.

    It is. Lightly. Men are supposed to yell and let it out and not say sorry. Testosterone. Roissy won’t even hit a woman, seeing it as taboo for him still, even though he can theoretically contemplate it.

    Err on the side of your perception of “jerk”, for sure.

    But the hottest of men requires more complexity than that.

    Like


  161. @ whiskey

    I don’t think most women are good judges of character, and character does not really matter to most women.

    Mmmhmm. But men — they’re great judges of character, and character matters a lot to them. Which is why all of the hot, high-T guys with game shun sexy young tens and choose instead to be with fat girls who have stellar personalities.

    Like


  162. Arpagus wrote…
    >Game doesn’t necessarily mean dishonest.
    ” I suppose game is partly about playing your cards right and presenting what you got in the best way, but as I understand it, the essence of game is deception. Negs are dishonest because we don’t actually mean them, for example. Pumping iron is not game in my book because it is costly and honest. “Game” is the term for shortcuts to bedding women without the actual hard work at becoming what they traditionally want, or rather putting some of that effort into figuring out how to trick women irregardless of whether you actually have the substance. If you do have it, then you don’t need game. Game is all about utility; honesty is irrelevant. Whatever works is right.”

    This is complete BS. Long before I discovered PUA terminology I called the neg — “sparring”, and there is nothing dishonest about it. Its quite fun (with someone that can keep up which is rare, most modern women can’t do it) and something I really don’t think you have ever really engaged in. And this might come as a surprise due to your misconceptions — I’ve sparred (i.e. neg’d) 16 y.o. girls and 70 y.o. women just for fun with no intent to fuck them. The youngsters are interesting because they are often less corrupted by modern feminism and are just discovering their sexual identity. Its how all women should strive to be… the 70 y.o. knew the deal but played along and was quite the opponent, and had a sparkle in her eye that said it all — I used to be beautiful and could spar with the best. I could see, despite the ravages of time, that she was probably a hottie in her day. The look of gratitude in her eye when it was time for me to go is something I will always remember.

    Is it dishonest for women to doll themselves up with lipstick and cleavage and ass-enhancing clothes? According to your view, yes. Look, I know she ain’t going to look that hot in the morning — but nobody is fooled and that’s why the bathroom has a door. It is called “game” for a reason you know… and its no “short-cut” to anything, it is literally what women respond to despite themselves as the article referenced here showed. Beta behaviors do NOT work, the evidence is overwhelming — whether you want accept this fact is your choice.

    Arpagus continued…
    “I have noticed some PUAs tend to downplay the deceptive aspects of game, and I disagree with this. Instead we should admit to ourselves at least (if not to girls) that we are not just trying to objectively improve ourselves here. Getting laid is far more important than honesty. Game is inherently deceptive and that is perfectly all right.”

    Come on, you can’t be serious? You have a weird sense of honesty. Is it “dishonest” to lie to your spouse or girlfriend to pull off a surprise bday party? By your standards such parties are verboten (you must be german) and/or you have no idea what game is about.

    Arpagus again…
    “While women might not be able to tell the difference, they are objectively, genetically better off mating with a natural because their sons will otherwise also likely be feckless with women without game and learning game is unlikely. That is solely the female point of view and while I understand their aversion to game on that basis, it is obviously not a concern of the inferior male. I will be laughing all the way to the maternity ward (despite child support).”

    This is moderately incoherent… however, I get enough to think that we agree that the whole evolutionary biology thing is way over played here. Evolution applies to species not individuals, so most of that content here is way off base.

    Like


  163. on July 24, 2009 at 3:00 am Willard Libby

    LILGRL – Mmmhmm. But men — they’re great judges of character, and character matters a lot to them. Which is why all of the hot, high-T guys with game shun sexy young tens and choose instead to be with fat girls who have stellar personalities.

    Yes, they do. Bookish, hard working girls with old fashioned sexual morality are the dream date of most men.

    The magazines men buy featuring women prove it.

    Where have you been?

    Like


  164. on July 24, 2009 at 3:44 am Cannon's Canon

    Joe:
    “I’ve mentioned all of those before, along with examples like The Shield, The Unit, Rescue Me, 24, House, Burn Notice, The Tudors, Sons of Anarchy, and a whole lot more.”

    Whiskey “put me onto the game” in terms of tv. There will always be counterexamples to the rule, limited or not.

    My all-time favorite tv show was forever going to be “The Shield.” When Whiskey accused it of feminist-steering, I was indignant within my own audience.

    Upon reflection, I identified many subplots and plot-twists that sync up with female catering. No need to cite any examples: the writer’s wife plays Vic Mackey’s ex-wife. We don’t need to create a three-tiered chorus of jewish execs vetoing the strike squad’s expressed emotions… the hnic goes home to the biggest veto vote of them all.

    ‘House’ is the only reigning counterexample on networks IMO. True story: it is the most popular currently-airing tv show worldwide. Fox can scoff at advertisement bidding when syndication rights are so sweepingly valuable across the waters. I don’t think India and China are pitching in much, ftr.

    I once watched half an episode of “the Unit” and marveled at Dennis Haysbert’s ‘black jesus’ regard. Perhaps no different than that of Horatio Cane… but stop, who would watch such shit anyway?

    I used to read a ton of paperback filth that my mother bought for me after college from garage sales. If you’ve ever read a slew of crappy murder mysteries… categorize them into male and female authors… of course, they are all terrible, but most suicide victims will have tended to subscribe to those female authors.

    Back to reality… if I want to examine “male-oriented” american tv shows, i will cross-examine their european (and asian) demographics.

    also, joe: suck my dick you bleeding heart liberal faggot cross-colors-wearing eternal vote of sympathy for the three-legged dog… go eat your fat wife’s pussy from 93 til infinity

    Like


  165. on July 24, 2009 at 3:57 am Cannon's Canon

    re: House
    it also includes:
    1. the metrosexual aussie doctor who beta’s up a 3rd (last?) place female within the (unrealistically) limited sample size
    2. black mr epps banging the superhot/young (bisexual!) doctor… (absence of infinity-slut-shame, impossible love, ignoring her own limited shelf-life {{bto hutchinson’s disease, ignored!}} all in play)
    3. cutty is a superlative jew-milf (WHOOPSEE!!!! how did that happen???)

    hip hip hooray for the House reign on top!!!!

    glad we established that it is one of the non-80% feminist-laden network tv shows, joe!!!

    Like


  166. on July 24, 2009 at 4:00 am Cannon's Canon

    {{1. the metrosexual aussie doctor who beta’s up a 3rd (last?) place female within the (unrealistically) limited sample size}}
    she settles for his beta-provider ass after house floats above her grasp

    Like


  167. you fuckers watch too much tv; get a life faggots.

    Like


  168. on July 24, 2009 at 4:28 am name's nephew

    93 til infinity. Good song.

    I am involved in a break up situation. I became irritating to live with and wanted to live alone and doubted my future with her. Now I am alone, but I want her back, however, she wants her time alone, a lot of time she says. She doesn’t believe I have changed my disrespectful and annoying ways. They were due to me doubting the relationship. I know I want to be with her now. How do I get her back. Ignore her? I am dating other girls but not having sex with them yet. It seems meaningless in comparison to her, and I have decided I actually want to grow old with her.

    Like


  169. on July 24, 2009 at 4:59 am Cannon's Canon

    name’s nephew:
    take my attitude for what it truly is: bitter, lacking insight, unflattering, unrepentant…

    i was beta for five years until i “discovered” game… but i still asked those practitioners how to win over “the girl”

    there is NO “the girl” … no “dream girl” … like roosh has explained, how can a girl ever be your dream girl if you can actually get her??

    we don’t know each other… unflinchingly, i say to you, let it go…. that this advice falls on deaf ears is inevitable…

    best hiero tracks IMO are “be thousand” by casual and of course the all time “oakland blackouts”

    Like


  170. […] I was going to write a lighter post for this Friday, but this post by Conor Friedersdorf (hat tip: Traveller) attacking the neg sent me over the edge: The community of men who study picking up women — […]

    Like


  171. Askjoe says, “…on the other hand, unleashing herds of sheep bleating the same lines to every gal they meet may lead to incredulous shit tests.”

    Since most women are sheep too, it won’t lead to more shit tests. It might even be a good excuse for some to revert back to more conservative dating styles.

    For most people, this would be a good things since most people can’t handle freedom. It’s a nice idea on paper, but it just leads to aimless people out of touch with nature and reality screwing up their lives.

    Like


  172. Like I said Cannon, as long as you guys find ANY element of the show that’s positive toward a woman or minority AT ALL, you’ll use it to disqualify the WHOLE show as anti-male. Thanks for proving my point about you guys.

    It seems the only way a show can be sympathetic to men in the eyes of you guys is if it’s just an hour of pure uncritical ass-kissing worship of infallible men with zero story elements sympathetic to women or minorities.

    First the complaints are there are no positive white or male portrayals, then when proven wrong the complaint is there are positive white or male portrayals but none of them are popular. After I prove that wrong the problem becomes that there are popular shows with positive white or male portrayals but because there is a white beta in the mix or black guy who got laid by a hottie it doesn’t count. You guys will move the goalposts all day long to make yourselves the most oppressed group out there at the end of the day.

    The sad thing is, you guys have a decent point. White men definitely are the safest group to attack in the media, and it’s unfair. But when you exaggerate so badly and refuse to acknowledge any positive aspects of white male portrayal to paint a picture of yourselves as unrelentingly oppressed it becomes hard to take you guys seriously.

    Like


  173. Now as for the black doctor on the show dating a white 10, who else is he supposed to date? Back in the day, whenever you had a token black character on a show, even though he was immersed in a sea of white friends, whenever he needed a love interest they would introduce one black woman and she would become his love interest. If it was a token black male student at an all-white high school, they’d introduce a second black female student in the mix and she’d become his love interest. They’d always be the only black guy and girl in the school or on the job and they’d always invariably date each other. This may be a pretty lie that’s reassuring to you guys who are paranoid or take personal offense at any portrayal of miscegenation but it’s not true.

    Most black guys who are immersed in an all-white environment whether it’s prep school, a white college or a white workplace end up dating white women often. So after several seasons, do you really expect to never see a black surgeon working long hours in an all-white environment to NEVER be with a white woman? And of course she’s gonna be a 10. I don’t know if you noticed but THE WHOLE HOSPITAL IS HOT. There ARE no ugly people working there and no one is fat. It’s television, everyone is improbably hot. Do you want them to hire an ugly chick to hook up with the black guys just to protect your feelings?

    Like


  174. @ whiskey

    “Mmmhmm. But men — they’re great judges of character, and character matters a lot to them. Which is why all of the hot, high-T guys with game shun sexy young tens and choose instead to be with fat girls who have stellar personalities.”

    THANK YOU…some of these MRAs and PUAs are such hypocrites……they point their fingers, but there are three pointing right back at them!

    Like


  175. @LILGRL

    “Mmmhmm. But men — they’re great judges of character, and character matters a lot to them. Which is why all of the hot, high-T guys with game shun sexy young tens and choose instead to be with fat girls who have stellar personalities.”

    THANK YOU…some of these MRAs and PUAs are such hypocrites……they point their fingers, but there are three pointing right back at them!

    Like


  176. That post was meant for LILGRL…

    Like


  177. @Lilgirl “Which is why all of the hot, high-T guys with game shun sexy young tens and choose instead to be with fat girls who have stellar personalities.”

    You aren’t buying into A.J Travis’s crap about you being fat are you?? 😉

    Like


  178. @ the cool people on this forum

    Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi and a hot young thang:

    PD A young man would have come in a second.. I mean he would have come… Young men usually have a lot of pressure.

    SB But if you will you allow me… (muffled) I believe it is a family thing.

    PD What?

    SB Having an orgasm.

    PD You know how long it has been since I had sex like I had with you tonight. It’s several months, since I broke with my boyfriend. Is this normal?

    SB May I? You should have sex with yourself. You should touch yourself often.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6724839.ece

    Like


  179. amestris and all women on earth

    maintaining your figure, for a woman, is a massive sign of CHARACTER. to say men being concerned with looks is just shallow or hypocritical is ridiculoys

    a woman that works hard to maintain her looks is showing she is willing to PLEASE her man

    allowing your self to get fat, in this day and age is not only a fuck you to potential men or the man you have, it’s a sign you lack self control, discipline and any concern for your health or appearance.
    men know a 21 yr old girl who can’t be bothered to keep that pesky 10 lbs off is going to blow up into a whale after a kid or two–if she can’t control herself when single, how and why is she going to once she’s got some man’s dick in a glass case

    isn’t there one thing women don’t lie to themselves about?

    Like


  180. @dana- how can you prove to us you’re not a man? an alleged passion for knitting doesn’t offset your fearsomely glorious comment pattern.

    Like


  181. Lilgirl, physical appearance is a strong indicator of personality traits. With only two exceptions in my entire life, I didn’t date disabled guys because the vast majority have an overblown sense of entitlement and/or a kind of Lindworm complex. The two I did date (current boyfriend included) grew up in situations that did not afford them the luxury of being crybabies.

    It may not be fair to judge people based on superficial aspects of appearance alone, but the details matter a great deal.

    …and truth be told, it is a matter of natural selection.

    The majority are idiots, and they select mates that suit them most of the time. The guy who selects the fat chick with the stellar personality or the hot hoe who tricks him into raising his more alpha associates’ offspring may tell themselves whatever lies they need to get through the day, but if without infrastructure they would be screwed, they are both just cogs in the same machine.

    …the mediocre jostling for position within mediocrity.

    So really, people should just do what makes them happy, and just not lie to themselves about what that is. Some guys would indeed be happier with a hot hoe than with a warm wife. If so, they need to learn how to manage hoes properly, and protect themselves and their partners from anti nature propaganda.

    The guy who’d be happier with a warm wife type has to do the same. He’s got to protect himself and her from the sort of propaganda that’s marketed to them about appearance being totally irrelevant. Since marriage/ltr’s are a partly social arrangement, their social standing as a couple depends on how they *both* display signals their peers will interpret as success.

    This in no way negates love and compassion, nor does it mean any disrespect. It’s just about facing the realities of life on this planet. People who let other people who don’t have their best interests in mind, tell them who they’re allowed to love may be weak, but they would be screwing themselves if they attempt to behave otherwise just because another group is telling them that exceptions should be made just to suit their interests.

    Either way, they’re letting themselves be conned, and that says they are suckers who need scam artists to tell them how to live. That’s the order of nature, and you can’t fight nature.

    People who are off the grid in the true sense, are not placating themselves with, “I didn’t want those grapes anyway…” They’re doing something that is important, at least to them, with their masking abilities. They accept what they won’t have because of certain limitations, and pursue what they can have, with the talents and abilities they have that others don’t.

    There’s nothing noble about being fat, Black, disabled, or whatever. The difference between people, when it’s all said and done, is who’s got the nuts to get what they really want from this life.

    …and this is part of what game is about: having the nuts.

    If having exclusive privileges to a hot chick is important to a guy, he’s got to know how to get that. If her personality doesn’t matter much to him, and he gets screwed, that’s not really because he made the wrong choice. It’s that he ignored the fact that his choice would have consequences, and that he should have the nuts to bear them.

    Whether a male is more sheep or wolf like, both have balls, and should use them.

    Like


  182. maintaining your figure, for a woman, is a massive sign of CHARACTER.

    Right on.

    My neighbor’s wife just had a baby. And I am seeing her grow from normal proportions to a fat porker. I mean this quite literally. I was talking with her a few days ago, while her thighs, ass, tits and face started swilling like the Incredible Hulk’s, except with fat and not muscle.

    Actually just yesterday, I saw the husband walk to his door, carrying the baby and accompanied by his formerly-thin wife, plus a VERY FAT older female relative of that wife.

    The poor man, I thought of my neighbor. I wouldn’t te able to stay sane with a fat woman under my roof, much less two. The horror. In summer shorts, with big, flabby, jiggly, stretched-skin, veiny, cottage-cheesy legs on full display.

    Like


  183. dana,

    amen………….exactly true.

    Like


  184. on July 24, 2009 at 10:25 am An Experienced Father

    >PA
    >Besides who are all those beer commercials
    >
    >Mosty “guy commercials” either do to the crudest appeals
    >to T&A, or aim for the male audience members to make
    >fun of “that other guy.” It’s funny, until we realize that
    >we all are “that other guy” in the advertisers’ mentality.

    The easiest way to test Whiskey’s theory is to see where the US military recruiting advertising is.

    They advertise where the 18-34 American male TV audience is.

    NASCAR and the NFL, not House or Grey’s Anatomy, is where you find them spending advertising money.

    A great deal of American military recruiting has also moved to the internet, because that is where the males are.

    Note as well that the military has also moved heavily to word of mouth recriting via using returning war vets to go to their old high schools and colleges to assist recruiters with hot prospects.

    There is even a bonus program for those vets who are assisting with word of mouth recruiting.

    Like


  185. @dana:

    “maintaining your figure, for a woman, is a massive sign of CHARACTER. to say men being concerned with looks is just shallow or hypocritical is ridiculoys”

    You also have the issue of fattitude, the personality that fat girls develop as a defense mechanism for being fat. Again I revert to women glossing over their flaws. The whole “fat is beautiful” spiel comes from women who are trying to convince themselves that it is. I don’t think they are trying to convince men, because if they were trying to convince men they’d already believe it themselves.

    There is a connection between obesity and psychological disorders. There is a connection between depression and other mood disorders and young people who grow up overweight. Someone’s weight can be an indicator of their personality.

    And it can have lasting effects. A formerly overweight friend of mine once said,”I still feel like the little fat boy.”

    Formerly overweight men and women alike grow up remembering what it’s like to be the fat kid. No one wants to be the fat kid.

    And while adults may not seem as blatantly honest as those kids on the playground were, they are. They usually keep those thoughts confined to their cranium and don’t call back.

    Like


  186. 3. cutty is a superlative jew-milf

    Cuddy = Lisa Edelstein (born 1966). Most of her family are doctors, she was the rebellious party girl (‘Lisa E’) who became an actress.

    Her character is rather close to what she would have become if she had been less rebellious.

    Like


  187. They advertise where the 18-34 American male TV audience is.

    NASCAR and the NFL, not House or Grey’s Anatomy, is where you find them spending advertising money.

    They don’t just advertise where the 18-34 American male TV audience is, they advertise where the WORKING CLASS AND BLUE COLLAR American male TV audience is. It’s not that NASCAR and NFL are only shows with a male audience, it’s that they are the shows that attract right socioeconomic target audience. Comedy Central, Adult Swim, G4 and Spike TV all have very male audiences but the socioeconomics are too high. I can’t imagine those types of guys, especially the college students, being big on the military. Same goes for House probably. Grey’s Anatomy on the other hand is totally a chick’s show, don’t think anyone’s arguing there.

    So showing that Army doesn’t advertise on a show doesn’t necessarily prove that show doesn’t appeal to men. It may not just appeal to the right class of men that Army needs.

    Like


  188. nicole

    a more thoughtful response to you if you care:

    http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/07/22/away-from-the-company-of-women/#comment-109395

    sorry about comment before, airy fairy female “writing” makes me physically angry.

    Like


  189. on July 24, 2009 at 10:58 am Marcus Aureliette

    It also just occurred to me that all the women I know who love House love Dr. House specifically, who is an arrogant and caustic SOB.

    Is it that they love the character of Dr. House so much, or that they’re well-disposed towards the actor who portrays him? Hugh Laurie has a rather devoted fan-base, and a good portion of House fandom is made up of people who’ll watch and appreciate Laurie in anything, regardless of the character he’s playing.

    How do you separate the appeal of an actor from the appeal of his roles? Is it even possible to do so?

    “House is a caustic SOB. Women love House. Therefore women love caustic SOBs.” is shaky reasoning, at best.

    Like


  190. Speaking of TV

    have none of you noticed the CONSTANT introduction of GAY storylines into ostensibly male shows? rescue me and the shield where 2 of our favorite shows and we both noticed how they tried to put progay stuff in there. they must have gotn howls of outrage over julian’s storyline in the shield, because they dropped that like a hot potato

    Like


  191. dana, i agree, they do shoehorn gay storylines into everything. even more alpha shows like the shield and sopranos and the wire.

    Like


  192. on July 24, 2009 at 11:31 am An Experienced Father

    >They don’t just advertise where the 18-34 American male
    >TV audience is, they advertise where the WORKING
    >CLASS AND BLUE COLLAR American male TV audience is.

    and

    >I can’t imagine those types of guys, especially the college
    >students, being big on the military.

    You really need to look at current American military demographics and not the main stream media’s Vietnam era preconceptions.

    The American officer corps has again become a multi-generational civil service profession, at least in the flag and upper field officer ranks.

    In the enlisted ranks and officer corps, you need to look particularly hard at the number of military college graduates.

    You cannot become a field grade officer or senior NCO in the American military without today being a college graduate with a masters degree, and recruiting recent 4-year college graduates saves on the military paying for a lot of that education.

    Today’s American military Senior NCO’s (E-7 and higher) are better “officers” than most colonels and below in WW2.

    Military advertising is aimed at rural and exurban 18-34 year old males because they have been in functioning public schools that makes those males more amenable to military disipline.

    Home schooled 18-34 males are almost uniformally a lost cause when it comes to adapting to military disipline. They have very high wash out rates at boot camp that make them a bad recruiting investment.

    Most inner city kids are not much better due to a combination of poor health (weight and ashma), dysfunctional school systems and drug related criminal records.

    The military also found during the War in Iraq that there is a huge pool of non-high school graduate males who make good soldiers, but they dropped out of school as fast as they could due to all the feminist crap.

    The military has found ways to reach them — via internet first person shooter on-line gaming — screen for them for good recruiting prospects via (illegal in the private sector due to civil rights “Disparate Impact Doctrine” laws) written skills testing, pre-boot camp physical conditioning and is using that demographic to deal with personnel shortages.

    See:

    http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htinf/articles/20090722.aspx

    What To Do With The Wild Men

    (much snippage)

    And then there was another oddity. During 2004-7, the army has had the most problems recruiting troops for non-combat jobs. Patriotism, low casualties, and a sense of adventure, brings in plenty of recruits for the infantry. But with support jobs, the army is competing with the civilian economy, which has been booming of late. But the civilian jobs are mainly been for those who graduated from high school. Thus the army is attractive to drop outs, and this has presented the opportunity to find those drop outs who are truly ready to succeed. But the army has to be quick, because the civilian “human resources” community has been watching the army effort with great interest, and wants the same people, if it can discover them before the army can. That will happen as the civilian economy climbs out of the recession.

    Like


  193. For the record, I’m not talking officers, those are a different demographic.

    Like


  194. on July 24, 2009 at 11:56 am An Experienced Father

    >It’s not that NASCAR and NFL are only shows with a male
    >audience, it’s that they are the shows that attract right
    >socioeconomic target audience. Comedy Central, Adult
    >Swim, G4 and Spike TV all have very male audiences but
    >the socioeconomics are too high.

    Multi-player on-line first person shooter games are used as a communication channel to reach this demographic.

    See:

    http://www.americasarmy.com/

    Like


  195. on July 24, 2009 at 12:00 pm An Experienced Father

    Joe,

    NCO’s are not officers, and they are predominently college graduates in America’s military.

    Like


  196. Multi-player on-line first person shooter games are used as a communication channel to reach this demographic.

    See:

    http://www.americasarmy.com/

    Totally, I’m aware of that. It’s a smart strategy. And the commercials for those first person shooters I HAVE seen on TV.

    Like


  197. on July 24, 2009 at 12:02 pm An Experienced Father

    Grrr….that should have read:

    …and they, E-6 and higher, are predominently college graduates in America’s military.

    Like


  198. Joe—

    Well that isn’t a race thing. *** So House not being unambigiously good or having foibles is not proof of conspiracy against white male characters since all the characters regardless of race or gender are flawed.

    Yes it is most definitely a “race thing” and it’s a very open “conspiracy”, meaning it’s not really one. It’s the open policy of being “progressive” about portraying “positive images” for blacks – and successful high achieving career women. And less openly, about there being nothing wrong and in fact something progressive about downplaying white males as shining examples or role models. Happens all the time. You and Obsidian won’t acknowledge this or that it’s anything more than a very slight thing because you are both benefiting from it.

    Of course the arts like flawed characters. That wasn’t my point. House isn’t just flawed, he’s crippled by his inability to connect with women, even by fleeting sexual conquest. It’s frustrating. It makes dramatic sense that the thing with Cuddy never really happens, but there’s no necessity for House to not do pickup scoring. It would make sense that he’s causally good at it, without putting much effort in, nad while being callous about it. That however would make him too much of a white male role model “in the wrong direction” for TV these days. Instead while he’s edgie and pushing PC (a little, not really very much, he’s just irreverent) and thus interesting, he’s too flawed for most to want to be like him. (Be like House but and never get laid?)

    Foreman for example is no prize either with his racial grievances and major chips on his shoulder.

    Yes Foreman most definitely IS a prize and a black role model, and thoroughly crafted to be just that. So what if he has racial chips on his shoulder? He gets away with them. He’s called out by House on it some yes, but it makes no difference, and would be unthinkable in the show’s ethos if it did (i.e. if it hurt his career advancement). Instead Cuddy regards him, racial chips and all, as the paragon of human judgment in the group. Totally rewarded. As well you can’t tell me that Foreman’s turning the previously most lesbo bi and gorgeous 13 to being exclusively and fawningly into him doesn’t make you black and proud. Well it pisses me off. (13 isn’t my type either. Too skinny and I tend to prefer dark hair and a more Mediterranean look, but she is hot in an elegant kind of way.) Cause it’s the kind of thing Hollywood TV and movies are always pushing. It’s also improbable. No not impossible. But why so pushed especially the last several years, ahead of and leading (they hope) reality?

    It’s almost like Hollywood’s working for black people and against white men. And you know what, they are. Openly and proudly. It’s their ideology. It’s called being PC and progressive. Certainly openly and proudly pushing the image of white men as strong and leading relative to any other group or women would seem repugnant to Hollywood (other than Jews or white ethnics seen as such).

    The number one job and priority in Hollywood is to make money, without doubt. Nonetheless PC left subtexts abound.

    Like


  199. G Manifesto said:
    Same with CASH.

    Put two Playboys head to head with equal Game, equal looks, equal everything.

    One broke, one flush.

    The flush one will defeat the broke one 90% of the time.

    – MPM

    Duh, but a meatheaded observation compared to Roissy’s writings on the matter.

    As he’s said, here in America, you have to be in at least the 99th percentile of income or silver spoonage for money to help you.

    If you are a broke guy with game, you are still ahead of anyone making up to six figures who lacks game.

    I got so sick of my living-with-mom buddy having a harem while I got zip. 7’s and 8’s would rather share broke lesser-alpha than give me the time of day.

    One place where Roissy is wrong, due to his lack of travel, is his prediction that the recession will help alphas.

    In the Third World, big business does not collude with poor men on credit and mortgage scams, or artificially cheap imports, that help them mimic the rich with flashy clothes, jewelry and auto customizations. They’re shabby and smelly and they can’t compete with the middle-class guys as well.

    Here in America, we always have to deal with the broke guy who gets into good clubs and puts on a reasonable facsimile of consumerist legitimacy while using caring-for-family or pulling-myself-up-by-bootstraps tales to patch over the gaps.

    A weakened dollar and tighter credit will eventually mean lights out for the dog-and-pony show that our nation’s poor men put on.

    Like


  200. Doug, the problem isn’t with the premise that the media is biased against white males more than any other group. I agree with that. It’s the hysterically exaggerated race-war level conspiracy that gets thrown about around here where any story element that isn’t specifically geared to flatter white guy’s egos must therefore be evidence of hatred of white men. And also, this inability to admit that there are ANY advantages to how white men are portrayed in the media that help offset the bad portrayals.

    For example maybe there are lots of white betas, but this inability to admit that the ultimate media figure remains to this day the white male alpha is disingenuous at best. No one gets portrayed as consistently good as white male alphas.

    As well you can’t tell me that Foreman’s turning the previously most lesbo bi and gorgeous 13 to being exclusively and fawningly into him doesn’t make you black and proud

    Why the hell would that make me proud? I’m not like the other commenters here, it’s TV. I don’t derive my self-esteem and worth from what other blacks do, fictional or otherwise. Why would I be “proud?” I get my pride from my individual accomplishments. Even if positive romantic portrayals in the media were reason enough to be proud, you white guys would totally CREAM me in that arena, you guys are the love interests of hot women in like 95% of all media.

    You guys take a totally valid criticism that I agree with, that white men are often unfairly picked on because they are a “safe” PC target, and exaggerate it to ridiculous “race war” “oppressed group” levels. That’s where you lose me. It seems criteria for a show being anti white male here is when 100% of the positive things aren’t happening to white characters and 100% of the positive traits don’t belong to white characters.

    Like


  201. Joe–

    It’s the hysterically exaggerated race-war level conspiracy that gets thrown about around here where any story element that isn’t specifically geared to flatter white guy’s egos must therefore be evidence of hatred of white men.

    Not by me it doesn’t. I’m not whiskey or A.J.Travis or anyone else.

    You guys take a totally valid criticism that I agree with, that white men are often unfairly picked on because they are a “safe” PC target, and exaggerate it to ridiculous “race war” “oppressed group” levels. That’s where you lose me.

    See above.

    No one gets portrayed as consistently good as white male alphas.

    Wrong. Females get consistently portrayed as better in most ways and overall.

    I’m much more concerned about feminist propaganda issues than race ones btw.

    Like


  202. ””””””’I can’t imagine those types of guys, especially the college students, being big on the military. Same goes for House probably. Grey’s Anatomy on the other hand is totally a chick’s show, don’t think anyone’s arguing there.

    So showing that Army doesn’t advertise on a show doesn’t necessarily prove that show doesn’t appeal to men. It may not just appeal to the right class of men that Army needs.
    ””””””””””

    lol my Dad was genious level and yea he was an officer in army. So right class this is too much. Maybe the problem with all these people thinking they are so smart. Except the jealousy of missing certain life experiences probably fucks em up. They can never feel like real men if they never help their country during wartime and they had the opportunity.

    Like


  203. Greg – This is how my recruiter friend explained it to me. He claims military still attracts the type of high level recruits that are motivated by patriotism and service to country and who make great officers, but these people don’t need as much outreach. They tend to be self-motivated or naturally inclined to join military. Lot of them have military in family already. The other big pool are low level recruits, people with few, but relatively clean records. What he claimed to me was that recruiters are missing out on the middle ground of people who might otherwise join but aren’t quite sure, are in midrange or community colleges or vocational schools, somewhat middle class, etc. He complained that they don’t seem to put as much effort in targeting these types of guys. These middle of the road types of guys are what I imagine to be in most of that male audience of a lot of those shows that the Army won’t buy advertising on.

    Like


  204. ””””””’An Experienced Father
    >It’s not that NASCAR and NFL are only shows with a male
    >audience, it’s that they are the shows that attract right
    >socioeconomic target audience. Comedy Central, Adult
    >Swim, G4 and Spike TV all have very male audiences but
    >the socioeconomics are too high.

    Multi-player on-line first person shooter games are used as a communication channel to reach this demographic.

    See:

    http://www.americasarmy.com/”””””””’

    That shit did work with a lot of my bros when I was playing ultima online and was in the orc guild. Yea all college guys cept for me as usual. Made up a language for orc and spoke it lol. Yea they where pretty much all going to school to be prgrammers to make their own games. Or where i bankers or some other rich as fuck demographic. Service called them because they knew they could make it no prob but they wanted to have transcendant experiences and a challenge which can only be found on the other side of war.

    Like


  205. Wrong. Females get consistently portrayed as better in most ways and overall.

    Females get consistently portrayed better than betas I think. Even the most strident feminist character will find herself “tamed” by an alpha character. Put a feminist character against Vic Mackey or Tony Soprano or Jack Bauer or Don Draper and they’ll be told to go fuck themselves pronto (and probably be shown getting fucked by said alpha in a later scene).

    I’m much more concerned about feminist propaganda issues than race ones btw.

    Me too.

    Like


  206. ””””on July 24, 2009 at 1:32 pm Joe
    Greg – This is how my recruiter friend explained it to me. He claims military still attracts the type of high level recruits that are motivated by patriotism and service to country and who make great officers, but these people don’t need as much outreach.”””””

    Makes more sence. Pretty much every male in my family and extended family does there time. Most do move on to other things but they get the experience of it.

    Like


  207. ”””””””ATC,
    In the Third World, big business does not collude with poor men on credit and mortgage scams, or artificially cheap imports, that help them mimic the rich with flashy clothes, jewelry and auto customizations. They’re shabby and smelly and they can’t compete with the middle-class guys as well.””””””””””””

    You definetly misunderstand the third world. I work with these guys. They have lives. They have woman to go home to that are in shape and decent looking. The chick also may be a nurse. If they are single and save their loot. They get to go home get married and relax maybe for the rest of there lives. They have different goals. Their goal is to spend most of the time in their life with there family.

    Like


  208. Unless they live in the city they say hard to find a city girl virgin he he he

    Like


  209. Posted by The G Manifesto:

    “Hormoaning,

    Interesting point you brought up.

    Many aspiring Playboys have a tough time transitioning from College to The Real World (and I don’t mean that crappy show on mtv either).

    Real world Game is a lot harder than College Game.

    But the rewards are much higher.

    Many college “players” get waterloo’d in the real world.

    Get evolved out like the Dodo Bird.”

    I’d say that this was the biggest shocker for me. Got laid a lot in grade school, and had to learn the system all over again when I came to college. Left college and realized there was another entirely different game. In grade school, it’s more about you reputation over the long term (months/years), in college, it’s all about social connections (access to parties/hosting parties), and after college, it’s more about who you are right then and there.

    Like


  210. @ Amestris, dana, aoefe, Willard, Nicole, anyone who answered me before

    Alright, Willard was the only one who got the tone of that post. And maybe aoefe.

    The rest of you fail.

    Like


  211. LILGRL

    It’s evident and well taken sarcasm seemed to need no comment from me.

    Like


  212. Wow. Mandy and lurker are getting along.

    Like


  213. Er, wrong thread.

    Like


  214. Raine, I don’t mean to bust your chops, but a *successful* LTR ends only one way: death.

    Like


  215. The David:

    Is it dishonest for women to doll themselves up with lipstick and cleavage and ass-enhancing clothes? According to your view, yes.

    It is not dishonest in a bad way. I don’t take exception to such tactics and neither to game. I just find it amusing that PUAs claim they are not engaging in deception when they clearly are much of the time.

    Beta behaviors do NOT work, the evidence is overwhelming — whether you want accept this fact is your choice.

    I have totally accepted this fact. Beta behavior is a very bad idea, but it is nevertheless more honest.

    Come on, you can’t be serious? You have a weird sense of honesty. Is it “dishonest” to lie to your spouse or girlfriend to pull off a surprise bday party? By your standards such parties are verboten (you must be german) and/or you have no idea what game is about.

    Not verboten, but it is a type of deception. Totally innocuous, but not exactly honest. Anyway, we were talking about game and deception. Here is a paper on “Male Deception in Short-Term Mating as a Function of Personality” that cites a lot of research:
    http://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/bitstream/1842/2558/1/s0341506diss.pdf

    Historically, Females have had to solve the adaptive problem of finding a mate willing and able to provide her and her offspring with resources and as such have evolved a universal desire for high status, dominant males with resources (Buss, 1989b). Therefore, males should display these characteristics desired by females (intersexual selection) and demonstrate their prominence over other males (intrasexual competition). Individuals who do not possess these qualities may attempt to mislead that they do.

    It is this misleading that I understand as game. Game is indeed a shortcut, if it works, in lieu of status and resources. In the appendix is a list of tactics considered deception by science. Clearly many of these correspond exactly to the teachings of PUAs. Some are silly or what girls do (“lead members of the opposite sex to believe that they can have sex with me”), but all have an element of deception and so does good game.

    Intersexual Tactics
    Dominance/Resources
    I spend money on the opposite sex when I really cannot afford it.
    I act more dominant around members of the opposite sex than I really am.
    I mislead members of the opposite sex about my age.
    I mislead members of the opposite sex about my career expectations.

    Enhanced appearance (body)
    I wear cologne to smell better than I do.
    I suck in my stomach when around members of the opposite sex.
    I go to a tanning salon to appear darker than I actually am.
    I fix my hair in ways that make me more attractive when around members of the opposite sex.

    Enhanced appearance (clothing)
    I wear tighter clothing to enhance my physique when around members of the opposite sex.
    I wear sunglasses to obscure eyes.
    I wear horizontal stripes to appear larger than I am.
    I wearing hats/scarves to conceal hair if it is dirty.

    Sincerity/Trust/Kindness
    I appear to be more trusting and considerate to members of the opposite sex than I actually am.
    I appear to be more sincere to members of the opposite sex than I really am.
    I act more polite around members of the opposite sex than I really am.
    I intentionally appear vulnerable to members of the opposite sex.

    Sexual intentions
    I play “hard to get” with members of the opposite sex.
    I lead members of the opposite sex to believe that they can have sex with me.
    I act uninterested in having sex when it is really on my mind.
    I lead members of the opposite sex to believe I am more promiscuous than I actually am.

    Deception involving third parties
    I surround myself with inferior members of my own sex to appear superior to the opposite sex.
    I hang out with attractive members of own sex to appear more popular to the opposite sex than I really am.
    I lead members of the opposite sex to believe that other females are attracted to me even if they are not.
    I act differently when a member of the opposite sex has other friends around.

    Interpersonal involvement
    I try to make members of the opposite sex feel uncertain about my feelings for them.
    I pretend to be interested in starting a relationship when I really am not.
    I act interested in what members of the opposite sex say even if I am not.
    I say things to members of the opposite sex to “butter them up” even if I do not really mean it.

    Positive self-presentation
    I try to sound more intelligent than I really am when around members of the opposite sex.
    I do not swear in front of members of the opposite sex, although swear in other situations.
    I act more mature around members of the opposite sex than I really am.
    I act relaxed and casual around members of the opposite sex even if I am nervous.

    Like


  216. Ghost of Nicole wrote…
    “Raine, I don’t mean to bust your chops, but a *successful* LTR ends only one way: death.”

    You mean murder/suicide?

    LTR= Lethally Terminated Relationship?

    Like


  217. David, whatever works. Heheheh…

    (For the humor impaired, that was a joke.)

    Like


  218. Many truths where said in jest.

    Like


  219. but it does work! for some reason unbeknown to moi, treating a player like i would any other guy friend makes them try a lot harder.

    it helps if you’re at least an 8.

    Like


  220. Arpagus wrote….
    “It is not dishonest in a bad way. I don’t take exception to such tactics and neither to game. I just find it amusing that PUAs claim they are not engaging in deception when they clearly are much of the time.”

    There is no such thing as dishonest in a good way, and for this reason “dishonest” is considered a pejorative by the vast majority of people. Unless your idiosyncratic use of the terminology has some kind of advantage that you can justify you should stick to the normal usage. Also, I think your sloppy conceptual distinctions will lead you to unnecessary moral conflicts and paradoxes such as all advertising is dishonest. I think communists hold similar views and use such equivocations to advance their political agenda.

    Arpagus continued….
    “I have totally accepted this fact. Beta behavior is a very bad idea, but it is nevertheless more honest.”

    It is honest to recognize the nature of male/female relationships based on the fact that men and women have different psychologic and physical needs. It is this difference that modern feminism denies and thus creates the miserable “empowered” women today and the herbs and frustrated betas. I would say herb or beta behavior is actually dishonest because it attempts to deny these differences.

    Now, I will admit and have commented that the whole alpha/beta terminology is flawed which is why I tend to use the more fundamental concepts of masculinity vs feminity, which are the real concepts that feminism has destroyed. If beta or herb behavior was more honest it would *work* which you agree is not the case.

    Another point is that you seem to be think that game is strictly used to get laid — it can be used for that purpose and if that is one’s primary goal it *might* be considered dishonest. Game — or what I prefer, proper feminine and masculine roles in a relationship — is what is required to maintain an LTR, not just to bed women.

    Arpagus continued…
    “Not verboten, but it is a type of deception. Totally innocuous, but not exactly honest.”

    If it is totally innocuous (harmless) then it cannot be considered bad, i.e., dishonest. Moreover, game is not innocuous but an actual positive good for both men and women on the assumption that *both* gain in a relationship based on proper feminine and masculine roles.

    Arpagus concludes with…
    “Anyway, we were talking about game and deception. Here is a paper on “Male Deception in Short-Term Mating as a Function of Personality” that cites a lot of research:”
    [snip of link and blog spam]

    I would take any academic article written in the last 40-50 years with a giant grain of salt. This is not to say that there aren’t any important points in that article. However, I am not an academic researcher and if I was I’m sure I could shred that article in an afternoon but would be unable to publish in any journal because I reject the feminist premises that dominate academia. More importantly, this blog is a better source of information and practical advice than academic articles which is why I read it, so I don’t have to wade through piles of BS or rediscover basic truths on my own that were commonly known 50 years ago.

    Like


  221. The David said:

    There is no such thing as dishonest in a good way, and for this reason “dishonest” is considered a pejorative by the vast majority of people. Unless your idiosyncratic use of the terminology has some kind of advantage that you can justify you should stick to the normal usage

    That is why I prefer to call it deception rather than dishonesty. But besides the connotations, those are really the same thing. And the meaning of deception is pretty well established, as you can see in the literature I referenced, which is evolutionary psychology, not feminism.

    I would say herb or beta behavior is actually dishonest because it attempts to deny these differences.

    I would say beta behavior implicitly recognizes these differences that the feminists deny. Betas supplicate because they realize they are inferior to women and need to buy their attention, which is actually biologically true. This does not work well precisely because betas fail to be deceptive in exploiting human nature, which is what game seeks to do. True alphas are not deceptive because they are truly attractive to women. The rest of us need to pretend.

    Moreover, game is not innocuous but an actual positive good for both men and women on the assumption that *both* gain in a relationship based on proper feminine and masculine roles.

    Or it could be that women reject beta men for good reason. Game is an attack on the evolved female ability to screen men. The most optimistic PUAs believe they can subvert the entire female selection process to the point where all you need is game, which can be learned. Insofar as genes matter, this is probably not an unequivocal good for women. I totally support game and hope it works. Let’s just not pretend we are doing it for altruistic purposes and there is no deception involved. Except when we are actually running game, of course.

    If beta or herb behavior was more honest it would *work* which you agree is not the case.

    That does not follow. It’s like saying a homeless man walking into a bank asking to borrow a million dollars should get it if he is honest. Losers exist. Pretending to have higher value is a laudable goal for a man, but not necessarily good for the other party.

    Like


  222. I think there are two kinds of things that make a man attractive:

    1) Checklists … things like being tall, muscular, have lots of money, nice car, good friends

    2) Dynamics … the man can create emotional effects, like sweeping a woman off her feet, or wowing a crowd

    The nice thing about checklists is that they are always working in your favor … if you’re tall it always helps, if you have lots of money it always helps, etc. You don’t have to do much, and people are open to YOU.

    But you can also learn how to manipulate situations … to the point of having extremely tight game … so you will get lots and lots of things you are “not entitled to” by pure objective value. The thing is, you’ll have to keep putting effort into it until these things stick.

    With women, you have to get to them emotionally anyway … the checklist only gets them more open to you… but ultimately you still need game to consistently get women.

    Like


  223. For example, being actually famous, or actually rich, is actual value. Most guys get laid because of social effects in their favor.

    But some guys try to create the appearance of social effects in their favor, which are transient and temporary… like social proof.

    And then, they are in a place where they can tease the woman. That’s the place every man needs to be in, in order to game the girl.

    Like


  224. Gunny, you make a good point. Love is a crazy thing. In my opinion, it’s supposed to be. Otherwise, it’s a convenient arrangement.

    I often think that part of the reason there is any debate at all on the ethics of game is due to fear of this craziness. Those fears are legitimate, but without facing and overcoming them, one can’t truly love.

    Amanda, treating a guy like a friend isn’t indifference. It’s just keeping things platonic until they either prove the legitimacy of their interest, or give up and go away.

    If the guy perceives you as valuable for whatever reason, be that looks, social status, or individual respectability, he won’t be as frustrated by this than if he doesn’t value you much. Sometimes though, you have to understand that it’s not about the guy being a player as it is about him being ready for and open to a serious relationship.

    A guy with options but who isn’t extremely picky may play the field until he’s ready. This is done in the same spirit that say a bodybuilder gains a bit of fat in the off season, but diets down when it’s time to compete. A guy who is extremely selective may still categorize some women as nice but non marriageable until he is ready.

    Especially if you are >7 media or natural scale, this should be a concern for you. You don’t have as much to worry about as my type as far as losing out to someone prettier because the crowd is thinner up there. It’s just that you don’t want to be categorized as a hoe if you’re a wife type. If you’re the latter, then as a beautiful woman, you’re someone’s unicorn. In fact, whatever takes that two or three points off may well serve as a kind of averaging factor that makes you appear to be more trustworthy and approachable.

    Someone mentioned earlier that a prude shield is better than a bitch shield. If you haven’t tried that yet then do. It’s a better indicator of your actual value as a partner, and you actually get to be feminine in a way that draws out a guy’s protective nature rather than defensiveness.

    Establishing yourself as the woman early on really pays off when, as we all do, you age. It even worked for me, and I’m a currently a brown cigstache who just hasn’t lost the motivation to shave. Relative to how things were, it’s like a whole new world has opened up for me.

    Basically, a wall of true chastity works better for sorting between the sleaze and the merely playful, than a phony bitch shield that says, “I do, but not with you.”

    Like


  225. Arpagus, I contend that the man who is capable of learning game is not subverting nature. He is using the talents that nature gave him to his advantage.

    One has to be able to see these things outside of the realm of morality, which has no relevance in a discussion about ability.

    Learning game is just like any other education. Some “naturals” get it from their experiences growing up, and some guys read about it in more explicit terms, the same as some kids learn to read easily by being read to, and some learn in school.

    You can’t pretend to be attractive to women outside of your own mind. You are or you aren’t attractive to women. If women are attracted to you then you are not pretending. They’re attracted to you.

    They may be attracted to you because you are pretending to be more alpha than you actually are, or than you know that you are, but I still wonder what exactly constitutes not alpha enough.

    IMO, it’s men pretending to be non alpha that is the problem in the west. Game is one tool of deprogramming from a bad trend of emasculating men. As with many bad trends though, those strong enough to resist the efforts of destructive social engineers will, and those too weak to do so probably won’t even go looking for answers. I have to give props to any guy who at least looks. That says alot about his true nature…that maybe he isn’t so beta after all.

    Like


  226. on July 25, 2009 at 7:52 am Epoxytocin No. 87

    @ Assanova

    Got laid a lot in grade school,

    “Grade school”?
    Curious, what country are you from?

    @ chuck

    i think that you may have stumbled upon a new routine here….describe the exact techniques that you’ll use to woo a woman to her before you actually do it. escalate from the neg to the kino to the number close…all the while, give her examples of the kino you’ll use. describe it as if you’re telling her a story (women love stories).

    This totally works during the phases that you’ve mentioned, assuming your delivery is really good, but it will go Hindenburg on your ass if you try it once you’ve gotten to the bedroom.

    @ arpagus

    The rest of us need to pretend.

    I don’t understand your constant need to couch game in pejorative terms, such as “pretend” and “deception”.
    Try this:
    pretend –> reframe
    deception –> script flipping

    That should be all you need.
    Read up on the Stanislavski school, dude. It’s not like teenagers and PUA’s are the only people going out there and trying on new hats.

    Like


  227. “@ Assanova

    Got laid a lot in grade school,

    “Grade school”?
    Curious, what country are you from?”

    The United States. I started having sex in the 8th grade, and was sexy active before then. It’s pretty normal for guys to start having sex at a young age when they’re raised in a low income area.

    Like


  228. There is no such thing as dishonest in a good way, and for this reason “dishonest” is considered a pejorative by the vast majority of people. Unless your idiosyncratic use of the terminology has some kind of advantage that you can justify you should stick to the normal usage.

    Okay, I have to jump in to defend Arpagus here. He is absolutely correct about dishonesty — take a look at Paul Graham’s essay Lies We Tell Kids, and compare and contrast kids with women. This is supposed to be a place where pretty lies perish… and one pretty lie is that most forms of Game do not involve deception.

    Consider the following two properties of honest statements:

    – They Voltron together to allow reliable long-range deduction. Any serious technical endeavor is utterly dependent on this property.
    – They can be defended in a state-free manner — when you make an honest mistake, you can just recall the reasoning that led to making the error. Whereas when you’re called on a lie, the computational cost of defending it is unbounded. Effective dishonesty requires good interpersonal intuition so you worry about the right things and only the right things when constructing your lies, rather than locking up on the NP-hard problem and giving yourself away.

    Beta nerds are generally good at reaping the rewards of honesty, and thus they’re the backbone of our technical infrastructure. Unfortunately, the Voltron power of honesty was not nearly as significant during most of our evolutionary history, so it’s not surprising that women are generally more attracted to displays of effective dishonesty. Therefore, to best create value for the woman you’re with, you need to have a plan for dealing with this (or be a natural who’s hardwired to do so). Just like any woman seeking a relationship needs to have a plan for dealing with the visual orientation of most men.

    There may be cognitive dissonance here because it’s typically safe to assume that honesty creates more value than dishonesty; at best, dishonesty allows you to capture more value while others gain less. But flirtation is a context where that heuristic fails. With most women, you actually create more total value, and they receive more, via effective dishonesty. This is what most Game is about, spelling out the details of how this works, in enough detail for beta nerds with keen analytical minds and enormous determination to have a good shot at success.

    Anyway. The big question (at least for me) is, what is the plan that maximizes long-term Voltron power while still attracting a suitable mate with high probability? Because, frankly, I’m not interested in creating value for someone who won’t be able to create much value for me. And sex, without intellectual connection, doesn’t cut it.

    Like


  229. Thanks, Chris. There is such a thing as a white lie. And then there is fraud. Game is somewhere in between. Like Santa Claus for kids mate value is something a decent person might lie about, but it is still technically deception. I don’t know what Voltron is, though.

    Nicole, I find your comments insightful and don’t really disagree, but one small quibble:

    “You can’t pretend to be attractive to women outside of your own mind.”

    Yes, you can. With wingwomen (aka pivots) this becomes totally clear deception, as I just posted about on another thread. Getting other women to go along with it is great game and you can’t say it’s all in my own mind at that point? But still not in the realm of morality, I agree.

    Like


  230. arpagus that is why you have to do some cool shit so you don’t have to lie. If you are a boring fuck go out and kill someone. j/k on the kill someone part.

    Like


  231. What kind of car do you have?

    Like


  232. @Arpagus:

    Do you have any hobbies?

    Have you had any adventures recently?

    Are you really good at telling funny stories or making fun of people?

    Like


  233. Wikipedia entry on Voltron. All you need to know — and all I know, honest! — is that there were groups of fighting robots that could combine into more powerful fighting robots.

    My point was that honesty is modular — combine enough not-even-perfect observations of nature and you can send a man to the moon and back, or a machine that can beat any human at chess, or figure out how to feed billions more people than was previously thought possible. Whereas a culture with men who are arguably comparably intelligent, but focus that intelligence on in-the-moment effective deception, can’t match those achievements. That society is less than the sum of its parts, while beta nerds can work with each other to create something more.

    So, my question at the end was: how can I use Game to create a relationship that is fundamentally honest, in which I can actually be impressed by and build upon my partner’s insights for the rest of my life? Where I acknowledge her emotional wiring and do what is necessary to keep her attracted, but with only minimal and peripheral deception? This is impossible with most women, and as far as I’m concerned, the faster they blow me out, the better. I have a very specific goal, which is to meet and end up with one of the exceptions; everything else is irrelevant.

    Like


  234. on July 26, 2009 at 3:04 am Tupac Chopra

    Cunthulah:

    Someone mentioned earlier that a prude shield is better than a bitch shield. If you haven’t tried that yet then do. It’s a better indicator of your actual value as a partner, and you actually get to be feminine in a way that draws out a guy’s protective nature rather than defensiveness…

    Basically, a wall of true chastity works better for sorting between the sleaze and the merely playful, than a phony bitch shield that says, “I do, but not with you.”

    Very astute observation, Nicole. Very.

    Would that more young women these days recognize the truth of what you are saying here.

    P.S. When’s the next boink?

    Like


  235. Tupac, you know I’m only saying this because I’m gunning for position of Supreme Mother of the Sisters of Agonizing Penance once Sarah Palin takes over the world.

    You really don’t think she would give up her position just to have more time to Twitter, do you?

    :: insert maniacal laughter and a montage of writhing undergrad altar girls in various states of punishment and ecstasy ::

    Mike in the Face Saving thread deserves the credit for bringing this up though. I just transplanted and explained it in Womanian.

    Apparently, the French have caught on though. “Pudique” is in now.

    Like


  236. @Gunslingergregi:

    What kind of car do you have?

    I don’t have one and can’t afford it. Not terribly inconvenient since I live within walking distance to everything and there are always busses, but it doesn’t help my game.

    @Mandy XD:

    Do you have any hobbies?

    Not really in a long time. When you have so little success with women, you get single-mindedly obsessed with sex and can think of nothing else.

    Have you had any adventures recently?

    Just the one with Charlotte I told you about. Or if you meant nonsexual adventures, I don’t care for them for the same reason as hobbies.

    Are you really good at telling funny stories or making fun of people?

    Probably not. I need to work on this.

    In other news, women are getting more beautiful:
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article6727710.ece

    What the Times Online gets wrong is which half of the population should smile at this particular trend. This is good for men because we become more satisfied with our mates — if we can get one. There is no limit, really, to how many women can be beautiful, while what women are attracted to (social status) is limited by definition and now declining thanks to feminism.

    Like


  237. You might want to up your work game a bit he he he

    Like


  238. @Arpagus:

    The thing is, you can’t be so single-minded. You need to develop yourself as a person. Play an instrument in a band, get out there and interact with people, work out, play a sport, etc.

    It’ll give you things to talk about, things to say, ideas, confidence, etc.

    Observe people and see what they do, how they act. Confident people feel good in their own skin. Everything they do is natural. You need to gain confidence.

    You’re an attractive man, you need to work on your personality. It’s such a downer.

    Like


  239. testing gravatar

    Like


  240. An Experienced Father

    Military advertising is aimed at rural and exurban 18-34 year old males because they have been in functioning public schools that makes those males more amenable to military disipline.

    Most inner city kids are not much better due to a combination of poor health (weight and ashma), dysfunctional school systems and drug related criminal records.

    Just fucking great: worthless ghetto gangbanger trash stays home to fuck, fight and breed, while smart rural males get their ball shot off.

    Darwin loses again

    Nancy Pelosi takes another victory lap in our Brave New World

    Like


  241. Girls like game like men like porn.

    Men know exactly what’s going to happen in a porno and they enjoy it all the same.

    In fact, the closer the porn conforms to his fantasy, the more he likes it.

    Game is the same.

    Like