A Recession Will Mean Better Sex

The Dow is down 26% year to date. If a protracted and deep recession leads to the average woman cutting costs at the supermarket and steering clear of the high calorie packaged foodstuffs, it could mean more slender women and, consequently, better sex.

Hard times bring “hard” times.





Comments


  1. The only flaw with this logic is that unhealthy food is usually cheaper than what our tubby populace ought to be eating in the first place.

    I seriously hate fatties. Fucking gelatinous eye-sores…

    Like


  2. oh, and fatties that smoke ought to be shot on site.

    socialized medicine my ass, you sorry fucks need to be charged by the pound.

    Like


  3. on October 6, 2008 at 5:38 pm Peregrine John

    Dude, you could see the bright side of a plague.

    That’s a good thing, though.

    Like


  4. on October 6, 2008 at 5:48 pm ironrailsironweights

    Serious question: what happens to the dating market value of an Alpha i-banker if he ends up getting “re-engineered?” Assume that because of all the megabucks he made in recent years he faces no short-term financial pressure even without any income. But does going from a super-Alpha, suit-wearing job to no job at all make him significantly less desirable to women?

    Peter

    Like


  5. on October 6, 2008 at 5:48 pm Usually Lurking

    Poor people, nowadays, have the worst diets. They can get lots of calories for less in the packaged and processed foods aisle.

    It was in the past that people would buy Ham Hocks and Collard Greens, now, they buy Refined Carbs…they are just cheaper, and you don’t need to know how to cook.

    Like


  6. what happens to the dating market value of an Alpha i-banker if he ends up getting “re-engineered?”

    I suspect that many of the married ones are with gold diggers, who will now make their lives miserable.

    Like


  7. roissy, I expected better from you on a post with this title. 2 beatdowns of your iffy theory in just 5 comments?

    Like


  8. #5 Usually Lurking – that means the stock in those of us that still know how to cook will go up, I guess….I would venture to say that the majority of females between the ages of 22-30 don’t even know how to turn on a stove, but oh how they love to watch the Food Network.

    Like


  9. on October 6, 2008 at 5:59 pm Usually Lurking

    QT, my guess is that few girls under 30 watch Rachel Ray. Well, Late 20’s maybe. It is after they start popping out babies that they start watching FN.

    Like


  10. This is Pupu poo pooing:

    High calorie packaged foodstuffs are actually cheaper. People may buy more of them when they have less to spend. Never mind, sex can still be good. Actually, relatively speaking, sex should be more fun because many people can no longer afford long trips, balloon rides and bungee jumps while they can still afford getting hard and wet.

    Like


  11. on October 6, 2008 at 6:00 pm Pope Goaz D'Weezil

    I’m with the others on the “cheaper food makes you fatter” thing. We’d have to go Mad Max before it had the effect hypothesized by Roissy. In fact, gym memberships might decline, encouraging even more fat assness. Less pedicures, manicures, hair coloring, etc. So women may become fatter and put forth less effort in presenting themselves.

    The question about i-bankers is interesting. While women love risk-takers, sometimes the risks shit the bed. What happens then could be interesting to discuss.

    Like


  12. The problem is that a recession will lead to a decrease in gym memberships and an increase in flip-flop wearing and drab dressing before it leads to a decrease in food consumption and weight. As one can easily see through any drive through a hood or through a trailer park, we live in a country where poverty does not preclude one from being a whale. In fact, most of the skinnier cities in America are the well-off ones. I predict women will forego the fancy, small portion restaurants and the expensive organic veggies from whole foods in excahgne for the big portions of McDonalds and cheap prices of Doritos.

    Like


  13. I should have read the comments before posting, a bunch of ppl already made my points. 😦

    Like


  14. on October 6, 2008 at 6:06 pm Usually Lurking

    T, I saw a map the other day that show which states had the highest and lowest rates of obesity. The thinnest states were the Whitest and Wealthiest, the fattest states were the Blackest and Poorest.

    Like


  15. Man, that’s what I figured UL. 😦 A lower standard of living across the country means an increase in fatties I’d say.

    Like


  16. Don’t depressions lead to an increased consumption of entertainment goods? Does more = better? The best entertainment is free entertainment.

    Like


  17. 4 Peter,

    Pupu suspects that a female i-banker still has one piece of non-depreciating asset — her GNP. 😉

    Like


  18. What’s at the root of the obesity epidemic? Hormones in meat? sedentary lifestyle? cheap food?

    Like


  19. on October 6, 2008 at 6:26 pm Usually Lurking

    PA, to me, this is the most obvious connection between Refined Carbs and Westerners getting so fat:

    http://www.ethicurean.com/2008/08/10/usda-calorie-data/

    When America (and, to a lesser degree, the West) went on a low-fat diet, our Carbs went way up. But, very few people went low-fat, especially since they were cooking less and eating out more.

    The Flour and Cereal graph line correlates almost perfectly with the percentage of Americans that are either overweight or obese over the last 30 years.

    Like


  20. 18, Exercise is now an expensive-in-time consumption good, instead of a component of earning a living. People are driving more and walking to/from public transportation less. TV and computer entertainment is better. Cheap food tastes better than before, in part, due to the fact that it is packed with fat and carbs.

    Perhaps, women generally have men on the run and don’t feel the need to keep in shape. That wouldn’t explain male obesity though.

    Like


  21. Similarly, I read that recessions bring with them a change in women’s fashion, hemlines fall, necklines rise, and more conservative and reserved attitudes rule the day. It is during the boom times that women display their goods. So if they do get fatter on cheap foodstuffs, at least they will be more covered up.

    Like


  22. @18, it is all of the above.

    There exist numerous estrogen-like chemicals throughout the food chain. Bisphenol-A, a type of xenoestrogen compound, has been shown in studies to stimulate precocious puberty and obesity in mice.

    Calorie intake being greater than calorie expenditure will result in net weight gain. Many are misinformed about how many calories they consume. Obese people often underreport how much food they consume compared to those of normal weight.

    Modern lifestyles are often sedentary, and people are also misinformed about how many calories physical activity actually burns. A 30-minute walk at 15 minutes/mile pace only burns between 90 to 300 calories, which is a slice of apple or at most one cup of yogurt in serving size.

    Cheap and abundant food with high taste value but little real nutritional value leads people to overload on calories but still crave more, because their bodies are not getting some essential nutrients, vitamins and minerals. Pregnant women for instance get cravings for more foods rich in protein and folic acid, even though they may be getting the same amount of calories as before.

    Genetics also play a role, and various genes controlling appetite and metabolism may manifest in obesity given certain calorie intake conditions. There is the theory that certain ethnic groups are more prone to obesity in the same environment. Their ability to store more energy as fat might be advantageous during times of lower food availability, meaning they are more likely to survive famines.

    Like


  23. Roissy is 100% correct.

    Women are pack animals and when the media and all the men around them (i.e., Daddy) start panicking about the economy, women pick up on the vibe and start to feel vulnerable and insecure.

    Vulnerable & insecure = the gates to their pussies swing open.

    The ONLY reason why women add a man to their life is because they desire SECURITY.

    “Serious question: what happens to the dating market value of an Alpha i-banker if he ends up getting “re-engineered?” ”

    Most i-bankers are not alpha but guys who try to use money to bait women. Guess what happens to the run of the mill i-banker loses his job? No more bait.

    “I read that recessions bring with them a change in women’s fashion, hemlines fall, necklines rise, and more conservative and reserved attitudes rule the day. It is during the boom times that women display their goods.”

    True. But women display the goods in boom times to get the highest bidder. Since most men will never be the highest bidder, all they get to do is stare.

    Like


  24. You’ll probably see even more “soft polygamy” with women competing even harder for the few remaining Big Men, and more hard-macho behavior from those men who want to have a woman in their life, using intimidation and as close to thuggery as they can get to compensate for lack of monetary power.

    A LOT more fights, and fairly brutal ones, over women in bars and such. A lot more women, desperately trying to compete for the few high rollers. A LOT more loser guys, sitting on the sidelines, stewing.

    Like


  25. Hope,

    You think too much for a girl. Less thinking = more happiness.
    Let go of the nerdy Asian girl. Just get a good fucking and everything will be all right.

    Like


  26. Due to the current economic climate, it’s likely that people will spend more time at home. Single guys will press for coffee or drinks rather than a dinner date. Thereafter, they will extend the invitation to watch a DVD at home, which will hopefully lead to more physical pursuits.

    Like


  27. Cheap and abundant food with high taste value but little real nutritional value leads people to overload on calories but still crave more, because their bodies are not getting some essential nutrients, vitamins and minerals.

    One of the things that stands out the most when you go to foreign countries is there is very little fast/processed food readily available. When I visit South America, people aren’t stuffing down a double bacon cheeseburger for dinner and then sitting in front of the TV all night. Big meals are eaten in the middle of the day and usually home-made or eaten at quality restaurants, a night time meal is a snack or leftovers. Also, there is a lot more walking.

    Cooking your own food is the best way to ensure what goes into your mouth isn’t crap. Almost every ex-bf I’ve had has commented to me that they never ate so much food but gained so little weight as when I was cooking our meals.

    Like


  28. 25 Anon1

    Hope,

    You think too much for a girl. Less thinking = more happiness.
    Let go of the nerdy Asian girl. Just get a good fucking and everything will be all right.

    Anon1,

    Go fuck yourself.

    Sincerely, DoJ

    Like


  29. market down 700 points.

    while high carb fattening food is cheap, there are other forces at work that could tip the scales (heh) toward women eating less in DEEP and PROTRACTED recessions (the qualifier is important. a short and mild recession won’t do the trick).

    less income, higher unemployment, credit squeeze, higher commodities prices, and peak oil could mean a paring back on sugary packaged goods like entemanns and ben and jerrys. it will also mean less eating out, where restaurant food is notoriously fatty and served in immense portions.

    when money is tight and the world is circling the drain, you buy the cheapest shit that’ll nourish you — beans, gross pig and chicken parts, and stew. this’ll make a depression-era hottie out of a fattie.

    Like


  30. “You’ll probably see even more “soft polygamy” with women competing even harder for the few remaining Big Men, and more hard-macho behavior from those men who want to have a woman in their life, using intimidation and as close to thuggery as they can get to compensate for lack of monetary power.

    A LOT more fights, and fairly brutal ones, over women in bars and such. A lot more women, desperately trying to compete for the few high rollers. A LOT more loser guys, sitting on the sidelines, stewing.”

    FALSE.

    1. Good times or bad, a thug is a thug. Bad times don’t turn the average Joe into a thug.

    2. Good times or bad, an alpha is an alpha.

    3. Good times or bad, losers always sit on the sidelines.

    Like


  31. Most i-bankers are not alpha but guys who try to use money to bait women. Guess what happens to the run of the mill i-banker loses his job? No more bait.

    Haha. True. “Models and bottles” was the mantra of these simp i-bankers baiting women with overpriced bottle service and blow in establishments across NYC.

    Like


  32. “less income, higher unemployment, credit squeeze, higher commodities prices, and peak oil could mean a paring back on sugary packaged goods like entemanns and ben and jerrys. it will also mean less eating out, where restaurant food is notoriously fatty and served in immense portions.”

    No. Fatties are fatties. The 99 cent menu ain’t going away at the fatties’ local fast food joint.

    More likely, the upper class girls lose a bit of their baby fat.

    Like


  33. Another thing…I would think a deep, long recession may lead to less haphazard sleeping around as women’s innate desire for security gets ratcheted up a few notches as they get more scared for their futures and financial well-being. For example I remember during the go-go 90s of the Internet boom, along with Sex and the City messages, women were fun-fucking like crazy. New trendy bars and lounges and hotels were opening up like crazy and overnight internet movers and shakers were everywhere. Everyone was having too much fun to slow down and think about settling down. I’d think a deep, long recession would lead to women being choosier about who they bang as they’d start worrying about being subsidized by a provider male. I think the main beneficiaries would be beta providers in a recession.

    Boom times + roaring 20s with people fucking, partying and drugging up a storm. Hard times equal Great Depression of the 30s.

    Like


  34. “beans, gross pig and chicken parts, and stew”

    sounds delicious. The beans should be saved to fuel Kick’s internal combustion engine. The rest, Pupu keeps.

    Like


  35. Alex J,
    You pretty much stole my thunder; the issue is the lack of exercise, and this pretty much cuts accross the board, although what UL stated wrt Black America even I can’t deny. In fact, as I type this I’m down at The Gallery here in Philly; just passing by the Tiffany’s Bakery spot, guess who I see in line? LOL! Two Sistas, very Plus-Sized-even for me. Whew.

    Hmm…

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  36. on October 6, 2008 at 7:27 pm ironrailsironweights

    Pregnant women for instance get cravings for more foods rich in protein and folic acid

    I thought it was for pickles and ice cream.

    Peter

    Like


  37. Disagree

    How much does a double whopper cost these days? Like 99 cents?

    How much for 2 litres of soda? A dollar and some change?

    Even in a recession these kinds of foods are going to be MUCH cheaper than fresh fruit and vegetables. Anything made with either corn or wheat will still be relatively cheap because of government subsidies.

    I think it would take something like the Irish potato famine or the Great Depression to curb the obesity epidemic in the US.

    Like


  38. I thought it was for pickles and ice cream.

    Ice cream I suppose could be considered a dairy product, and it might contain calcium. I am Asianly lactose intolerant but have been drinking milk of late.

    Pickles have folate as well. But oranges and strawberries have more folic acid. Yummy. 🙂

    Like


  39. Yeah.

    Red States: Fat Fucks.

    Blue States: Skinnier.

    Although, there are some exceptions.

    Miami Beach (in a Red state but a Blue area), girls are in good shape.

    – MPM

    Like


  40. 33 T. AKA Ricky Raw:

    Exactly. I remember the ’90s too. Not resentfully, either (heh)

    Like


  41. @37 Carl Sagan

    While I agree in theory, I have several farmers as clients. The corn situation is one that is going to start getting passed down to the consumer. Elevated prices make it more expensive to feed animals, so meat/dairy prices will probably go up, considering fertilizer outlay happened when petroleum was at peak levels and they absorbed that cost.

    Roissy, too bad you weren’t placing orders when the market was down. The buyers stepped in at the end of the day….

    Like


  42. What happens in long and deep recessions is that in some ways the country becomes more politically left or populist, but definitely socially more conservative.

    However. limousine leftism goes down. I promise you that enthusiasm for foreign aide will plummet. So too helping the “other” will decline in priority. Not as much as in the 30s because lots of others have been more or less mainstreamed, but enthusiasm for e.g. poor Mexican illegals is likely to plummet.

    The attractions of steady betas who retain solid and secure jobs will go up. Chasing alphas will decline. Girls will have less of a tendency to hold out longer for better. Doctors and big firm lawyers and mid level execs in secure cos. will see their mating market value go up.

    These things don’t happen in immediate response to stock market drops, or only somewhat. It’s as the job market gets way less bullish that the real changes are felt. What do you think companies are going to be doing with their hiring plans in this environment? Good luck getting new venture capital money. And so on.

    Like


  43. My jizz – good tasting, and good for you. Ladies, take a number. No spitting to please.

    Like


  44. Anon1 32–

    I tend to think American guys in general, and gen Y American guys in particular are far too worried about being or sounding “sexist” and end up pretty whipped (aka world leaders in whipped) as a partial result. Then I read stuff like this from you:

    You think too much for a girl. Less thinking = more happiness.
    Let go of the nerdy Asian girl. Just get a good fucking and everything will be all right.

    And I’m reminded just how dumb sh*t and obnoxious straight up, don’t let a thought cross your mind, sexism can be. That’s one way of keepin’ it real, I guess. It’s one thing to resist “gender is a social construct” feminism — it’s another to read that sort of belief that men and women are wholly non overlapping platonic essences, where too much thinking makes all women unhappy. Please.

    Hope btw is happily married and peggers. She’s married to her girlhood sweetheart, after a period when the both explored others, who’s a kinda studly guy in a number of ways (ex military, etc.), who she partly domesticated. They seem to be genuinely devoted. She’s truly focused on keeping the emotional communication and the couples sex as good as possible. She says she never turns him down for example. In many, many ways, many should be so fortunate.

    Is Hope way nerdier and more intellectual/analytical than most girls? You bet. She’ll be the first to say so. Does exercising those natural mind muscles of hers make her unhappy? Not that I’ve seen; the opposite.

    But don’t let any of that stop you.

    Like


  45. @31: Having seen that business going on in NYC in the past, I’m actually joshin’ a bit to head up there and pick up some of the fall-out for a fling.

    Good financial minds like market downturns because downturns yield bargains. The sexual market will respond in kind and the pick-up artist will feel similarly.

    Like


  46. If a protracted and deep recession leads to the average woman cutting costs at the supermarket and steering clear of the high calorie packaged foodstuffs, it could mean more slender women and, consequently, better sex.

    Not when one apple costs 2 bucks. There will be more used bacon grease,potatoes, and white for the long haul.

    Like


  47. Thats seeing a silver lining in a tornado cloud, but its probably true……

    Man my 401K is taking a beating. I mean it, its depressing.

    Like


  48. But does going from a super-Alpha, suit-wearing job to no job at all make him significantly less desirable to women?

    Peter

    Less desirable. Women don’t like lazy trustfunders. Surprisingly, a lot of those men have no money or are running close to E. Some of them spend it as fast as they can make it.

    Like


  49. Just having to walk more will also make a significant difference. Higher fuel prices and lower income result in more physical activity for a number of reasons.

    Fat ghetto mamas and trailer trash are a different matter — they have no standards and yet can remain well-fed without making any significant effort whatsoever, thanks to the myriad social services available to women.

    Like


  50. PA
    What’s at the root of the obesity epidemic? Hormones in meat? sedentary lifestyle? cheap food?

    All the above + larger portions, large breakfasts etc…

    whiskey said:A LOT more fights, and fairly brutal ones, over women in bars and such. A lot more women, desperately trying to compete for the few high rollers. A LOT more loser guys, sitting on the sidelines, stewing.

    Is it really this bad? Are men really this hard up? Or is it a shortage of women who are 8+ that really have men angry?

    Like


  51. Just having to walk more will also make a significant difference. Higher fuel prices and lower income result in more physical activity for a number of reasons

    I agree

    French(all races) and Japanese women don’t exercise or go to the gym like American women do, and they manage to stay slim on average.

    Like


  52. Mu’s Prediction:

    As gas prices continue to raise, so will the consumer/hi-end electronics and general retail markets. This will cause even more shocks to the financial markets system. People male and female alike will go “back to basics” w/the quickness.

    The kinds of men that will be in demand or the Lunchpailers. Guys that actually do stuff w/their hands. Wall St Marketeers will have something of a rough rep as a result of all the gyrations of the markets in as many months, and their wallets will look like it. Women will go back to the more stable and steady income stream.

    Sexually, on a societal level, I say things will tone down a bit overall; don’t be surprised if you see the ladies clamp down a bit.

    Just a few thoughts. Holla

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  53. “But does going from a super-Alpha, suit-wearing job to no job at all make him significantly less desirable to women?”

    Not if he has real Game.

    – MPM

    Like


  54. Chic — if you were a master of the universe, or even a mid-level manager, downsized, you go with what competes with the other guy. That’s always thugging it up.

    Moreover, I think people don’t understand the massive changes and political reality. Obama is the likely victor, and he and the Dems will get elected due to single women. THEY will get job preference, along with various minority groups, and White guys are going to get punished. Already you see White yuppie guys like Harold Myerson talking about “abolishing Whiteness” and the rest.

    Moreover, Unions are now increasingly minority only. The Drywallers union is nearly all Latino/Mexican. One of the reasons for the popularity of the Alaskan-themed tough-guy shows is that it is one of the few places for blue collar White guys.

    I see a lot of White guys working part-time at Best Buy. This won’t be good. A lot less substitution of games and pr0n.

    Like


  55. Less pedicures, manicures, hair coloring, etc. So women may become fatter and put forth less effort in presenting themselves.

    In other words, less acrylic nails, less pretty high heel shoes? Does porn become even more attractive than the real world? Do those “pretty” 6s with makeup become ugly 4s and 5s?

    When I visit South America, people aren’t stuffing down a double bacon cheeseburger for dinner and then sitting in front of the TV all night.

    Interestingly, I’ve heard legends and stories of Argentine and Brazilian restaurants where meat is cheap and easily available in large portions. Wellesley Queen found it harder to maintain her weight in Argentina than in the US due to the heavy meat and wheat diet down there.

    you buy the cheapest shit that’ll nourish you — beans, gross pig and chicken parts, and stew

    In other words, McDonalds cheeseburgers and $1 frozen foods?

    less income, higher unemployment, credit squeeze, higher commodities prices, and peak oil could mean a paring back on sugary packaged goods like entemanns and ben and jerrys

    The thin Whole Foods types will slide back down into prole snack land, and the prole will just switch to generic versions of the name brand snacks. In turn, I suspect supermarket theft will climb in questionable areas…

    I think the main beneficiaries would be beta providers in a recession.

    It can play out in either direction. Some women will latch on to the first beta with a good and secure job, and other women will latch onto the alpha willing to sprinkle some money and attention upon them. So nurses can hold out for alphas, but a waitress may find a prole government employee attractive.

    Like


  56. when money is tight and the world is circling the drain, you buy the cheapest shit that’ll nourish you — beans, gross pig and chicken parts, and stew.

    Fruit and vegtables guarantee long term hotness.

    Like


  57. Whiskey 54 —

    Sometimes I get the impression that you expect a violent revolution before too terribly long Whiskey.

    Do you?

    Like


  58. @whiskey- THEY will get job preference, along with various minority groups, and White guys are going to get punished. Already you see White yuppie guys like Harold Myerson talking about “abolishing Whiteness” and the rest

    Don’t worry, white men are here to stay. No one wants to take America from you we just want to share. There are plenty of women for you whit men. Half of all Asian women in America date whte men.

    Vote for McCain if you like but you are only one argument-fatal heart attack away from Palin as president. Remember she doesn’t read newspapers. SMH I can’t imagine having a president who doesn’t read newspapers
    .

    DA-nurses have options, good pay and low debt.

    Like


  59. dougjnn
    Whiskey 54 –

    Sometimes I get the impression that you expect a violent revolution before too terribly long Whiskey.

    Do you?

    I agree. Sometimes I think Whiskey is eager to see an American Holocaust.

    Like


  60. on October 6, 2008 at 10:54 pm Peregrine John

    Fruit and vegtables guarantee long term hotness.

    Truth. If you have space (and it doesn’t take much, really), a garden is a big step toward cheap, healthy hottness.

    Like


  61. on October 6, 2008 at 11:12 pm ironrailsironweights

    Less pedicures, manicures, hair coloring, etc.

    That might also mean less … you see where this is going.

    Peter

    Like


  62. That might also mean less … you see where this is going.

    A shitty electric razor can give a proper trimming. Hell, I’d imagine that home waxing kits will become popular…

    Like


  63. 54 whiskey:

    I see a lot of White guys working part-time at Best Buy. This won’t be good. A lot less substitution of games and pr0n.

    Also, don’t overlook the increasing popularity of the UFC and cagefighting. Gyms for such are popping up EVERYWHERE. This would not be a concern were it not for the fact that significant portion of the clientele are lower and lower-middle class thugs.

    As a matter of preparation, I also train at one such gym.

    Blade Runner, baby. Blade Runner…

    I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time… like tears in rain… Time to die.

    Like


  64. Dougjn — No, I would say revolution or widespread violence is simply impossible. As the Georgian President found out, it takes hard men to do violence. Men who have a habit of living rough, of killing (men in the West, particularly White men, are generally conditioned against it). I dismiss as totally unrealistic any views of revolution, or widespread violence. THAT takes tough, rural, tribal people who deal out violence daily. The Kurds of today or the largely rural poor Southern Whites of 1860 — Huckleberry Finn is a good take on how … VIOLENT that society is. Joe Average Beta White guy can’t even engage in a slap fight.

    Some sort of protest, ala the Bonus Army, ruthlessly suppressed? Sure. Small, constant, hostility expressed in various ways? Absolutely. The occasional Cho, restraints and boundaries slipped by mental illness? Guaranteed.

    But not widespread violence. Betas revenge will be small, petty, constant, widespread, but not violent. It will be cutting in front of women. Rudely bumping into them. Telling them off, in crude and vulgar language, when they are in front of whatever someone seeks. Nasty, small, little cruelties designed to deal out misery to others. I already see this happening. [Who are the major consumers of Gangsta Rap? Betas. See Office Space and “Michael Bolton” for this reality.]

    Chicnoir — Obama says he does not read newspapers either, and had no idea that Ayers was a stone cold unrepentant killer. So Palin is in the company of the Messiah. The Dem electoral coalition is what it is — caucuses for Blacks, Latinos, Gays, Women. White Men? Officially the group “hated” by Dems. Or I should say, Beta White Men. Which is pretty much most White men.

    Of course White Women (37.5%) + Blacks (12%) + Mexicans (13%) = 62.5%. White women will be somewhat less than that because some percentage, around 35% IIRC, are married, but it’s still a winning coalition. However the losers WILL make themselves heard in small and nasty, petty ways designed to make others miserable. Particularly as you find guys who were middle management (D-Fens in Falling Down) made into Best Buy salesman, “jokes” to women, working part time and barely making it. Not violent, just nasty as they possibly can be.

    Like I said, I already see this — it’s a disaster.

    Like


  65. Peregrine John
    Fruit and vegtables guarantee long term hotness.

    Truth. If you have space (and it doesn’t take much, really), a garden is a big step toward cheap, healthy hottness

    I really need to learn how to garden and how to sow.

    Like


  66. Chicnoir — Obama says he does not read newspapers either

    I need proof. I refuse to believe that.

    Like


  67. A president who has no intellectual curiosity is not someone who I feel comfortable having in the white house. I want a thinking first lady too. I really liked Teresa Hines Kerry, she was a friend in my head. I can imagine that the most of the men who comment here can’t stand the sight of her

    Like


  68. UFC takes money, doesn’t it? Lots of training in Wrestling, jujitsu, along with boxing and kickboxing. Aren’t most of the good fighters, really middle class white guys?

    Jokes like Kimbo Slice (famous for beating up bums and street people in Miami’s Liberty City) end up TKO’ed in the first round. By some unknown guy. That Couture can be competitive at his age pretty much says skills matter more than sheer strength and size.

    Boxing became kind of a joke, like Wrestling but not as funny. So UFC took the opportunity. I don’t see it as much other than that.

    Politically, though, a pre-Revolutionary state is where rising expectations suddenly meet permanent downturns. The politics in an era where there literally is not enough money to keep everyone happy, and welfare must be cut, White guys thrown out of jobs or denied them for electoral partners (White Women, Blacks, Gays, particularly Mexicans who are 13% and growing), the politics will be UGLY.

    Depression = someone has to lose, and given the electoral coalition, that’s beta White Guys. Ugly, ugly, ugly politics ahead.

    Like


  69. Chic, go to National Review Online. They quote his adviser, David Axelrod, as saying Obama never knew Ayers was unrepentant about setting bombs, in his 9/11/01 interview, saying he only regretted he did not set more and did not kill more people.

    Because in Axelrod’s words, Obama does not read newspapers. Axelrod also says Obama did not read ANY of the Chicago Tribune or Sun-Times articles on Ayers in 1996 when the Dem Convention was held there, in Chicago. Focusing on how many people Ayers killed and tried to kill, his conviction overturned because of Prosecutorial misconduct. “Guilty as sin, free as a bird,” in Ayer’s words. [Obama worked with Ayers extensively to allow child murderers to go to rehab rather than prison, knew and approved of his hard-left indoctrination campaigns in education since they worked on it together in the Annenberg Challenge.]

    Both Palin and Obama have a good defense: papers are miserable, shoddy writing, worse reporting, biased, bubble worldviews. In Palin’s case, far more defendable since papers are very expensive in AK, costing far more due to transport costs, and the local rags particularly miserable. Important news is given by radio — the weather which means literally life and death up there.

    The goal of the First Lady is to be as unobjectionable and unobtrusive as possible. Kerry would have been a drunken disaster, same as Hillary was a disaster. Nancy Reagan with her astrology was not good either. Roslyn Carter, Laura Bush, Pat Nixon, Bess Truman, and Lady Bird Johnson were excellent first ladies. Like a good ref, so good you don’t ever notice them.

    Michelle Obama, grievance queen, will be a huge disaster. Worse than Betty Ford, or Hillary, or Barbara Bush. Grievance politics in a time of huge budget constraints guarantees a revolt, politically nastier than that of Hillary Care in 1994.

    Like


  70. Whiskey we often butt heads here so excuse my snark.

    Whiskey said:Joe Average Beta White guy can’t even engage in a slap fight

    I think most human beings, male or female, can become very violent if pushed.
    .

    Like


  71. Both Palin and Obama have a good defense: papers are miserable, shoddy writing, worse reporting, biased, bubble worldviews. In Palin’s case, far more defendable since papers are very expensive in AK, costing far more due to transport costs, and the local rags particularly miserable

    I won’t trust the words of Obama’s advisors anymore than I trust the words out of McCains. Both will tell lies to get their candidate elected. Sometimes it seems like the advisors and volunteers want their candidate to win the election more than the candidate him/herself wants to win.

    The goal of the First Lady is to be as unobjectionable and unobtrusive as possible. Kerry would have been a drunken disaster, same as Hillary was a disaster

    SMH
    I am not surprised you feel this way. Kerry is not a drunk.

    Grievance politics in a time of huge budget constraints guarantees a revolt, politically nastier than that of Hillary Care in 1994.

    If this depression/recession is as bad as some are predicting, grievance politics will need to come into play.

    If poor people in Appalachia can’t afford food, should we let them starve? HS would probably say yes since they are preloes but I don’t agree

    Like


  72. whiskey saidparticularly Mexicans who are 13% and growing

    Can we stop calling all people who speak Spanish, Mexicans.

    Please

    I’ve come across South Americans/Hispanics/Latinos from PR, Dominican Republic, Cuba, Guatemala, Brazil*, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Argentina.

    The gangs from El Salvador are very brutal and make up a huge percentage of the members of MS-13 gang. One of your favorite lawmakers played a large part in bringing them to the Unitied States.

    Like


  73. 68 Whiskey:

    UFC takes money, doesn’t it?

    Not really. Things are getting to the point where you can graduate to sparring with a friend in a garage (with DVD’s and books) after only 2-3 months of actual instruction, and actually get good.

    Aren’t most of the good fighters, really middle class white guys?

    Not really. A lot grew up as hoodrats in the meanstreets of Brazil and other hell holes.

    That Couture can be competitive at his age pretty much says skills matter more than sheer strength and size.

    This is true, but it’s equally true that what counts most in combat is a certain kind of personality trait…. a killer instinct and willingness to hurt another human being that can only be ingrained by growing up in a violent environment. Some of the these fighters are barely-unhinged sadists.

    Someone like BJ Penn would be a good counter example though. He looks like the nicest beta in the world (relatively speaking) but he is/was one of the best.

    Boxing became kind of a joke, like Wrestling but not as funny. So UFC took the opportunity. I don’t see it as much other than that.

    My point was that the rise of the UFC at the expense of boxing may indicate humanity’s inherent bloodlust is becoming more exposed, even cultivated. Couple this with the breakdown in social mores you often write about and I wonder.

    The sort of minor skirmishes and bar fights that in times past resulted in a fat lip while your friends held you back now have the potential to be truly life threatening situations. Make no mistake: mixed-martial arts is NOTHING like all the other Kung Foofery you find in McDojos. The techniques are ruthlessly practical and effective.

    Since the men who gravitate to this brand of combat are often the low IQ, poor impulse control types, I wonder.

    As more and more middle-class whites participate, I forsee more violent skirmishes where once there might have been just slapfights.

    One of my SuperAlpha(tm) friends used to be a very skilled boxer, and he briefly worked for the local mob as a (ahem) “debt collector.” He used to be quite confident in most situations, and still is for the most part.

    But now he tells me he thinks twice when the short guy with the Napolean complex gives him hard looks across the bar…

    Like


  74. But now he tells me he thinks twice when the short guy with the Napolean complex gives him hard looks across the bar…

    America’s Most Wanted features at least two of that type every weekend.

    Like


  75. I hope Obama wins in a way because the Democrats, by raising taxes and punishing successful corporations and imposing other large costs on doing business in the USA, etc, will help bring on a deep recession. And then maybe betas with good jobs will get more action.

    About Ms. Kerry, what is she other than a gold digger? One gold digger married to another. A perfect match. Almost like a movie plot.

    Like


  76. on October 7, 2008 at 1:51 am ironrailsironweights

    Also, don’t overlook the increasing popularity of the UFC and cagefighting. Gyms for such are popping up EVERYWHERE. This would not be a concern were it not for the fact that significant portion of the clientele are lower and lower-middle class thugs.

    It’s not necessarily that more people are getting into combat sports today, it’s that they’re getting into different combat sports. Until about the 1950’s most urban neighborhoods had boxing gyms. Boxing then went into a long decline, and today boxing gyms are sort of an endangered species. Starting around the 1970’s many Asian martial arts schools opened, teaching things like karate, Tae Kwon Do and judo. There don’t seem to be as many around today, and it’s my impression that most remaining ones are primarily for children. My point is that many of the people studying MMA today would’ve been studying Asian martial arts a generation ago and boxing two generations ago.

    Peter

    Like


  77. Joel why do you say Teresa a gold digger?

    Like


  78. on October 7, 2008 at 2:07 am Steve Johnson

    “Joel why do you say Teresa a gold digger?”

    Because she’s a rich widow (Heinz). That’s not a really bad thing to be but you don’t marry an elderly billionaire by accident.

    Like


  79. Joel, if I am not mistaken, Teresa met her first husband when the two were young, like 20 something. It’s not impossible for a rich man to marry a woman who really loves him you know.

    I see unattractive men with holding hands with women and they seem happy. As a matter of fact, I see plenty of couples walking about holding hands and looking happy.

    Like


  80. She is older than both of her husbands.

    Like


  81. on October 7, 2008 at 2:22 am Steve Johnson

    Hey, someone has to marry really rich heirs who get married. Playing the odds this tells you that women who are after that type of thing will be the ones who do.

    If some guy is married to a red-head it could be that he just happened to fall for that one girl but I’ll bet on him having a preference for red-heads. Same with her. It’s not a huge deal.

    I stand corrected about her and his age when she got married.

    Like


  82. Teresa Heinz Kerry married and inherited her money. Supposedly John Kerry married her for money.

    Teresa was/is a loose cannon. Kerry’s campaign took great care to muzzle her.

    You’ve noticed that Obama’s campaign has quieted Michelle since Obama beat Hillary out for the democratic nomination?

    Whiskey is actually correct on what the majority of the population want in their first lady. She is not an elected official and people resent any attempt by her to assume power. That was a mistake Hillary made.

    Like


  83. We already have a president who doesn’t read newspapers.

    Like


  84. chicnoir 58 —

    Vote for McCain if you like but you are only one argument-fatal heart attack away from Palin as president.

    I actually think Palin might make quite a good President. As I said to you once before, think Harry Trumanette.

    Her culture is anglo white frontier culture. I know, like and respect that culture. It’s grounded and self reliant. It is not steeped in leftist or any other kind of dogma. What works is king. Practicality and pragmatism. Dispense with bullsh*t.

    That Obama is black is a positive for me. I like the idea of electing a black president. Well half black, but black according to blacks and according to him.

    What I don’t like is electing such a leftist president, in a solidly both houses Democrat Congress. That will likely move the country way to the left, which I definitely don’t want. I might go for a little left on taxes (a LITTLE I said chicnoir) but there’s every indication that Obama could be almost without restraint to the left. How far he’d want to go I’m not sure, but I’m not a blindly trusting sort. And the tea leaves aren’t so positive either.

    Like


  85. I think most White guys, fight like Grant and Colin what’s his name in Bridget Jones. A prissy slap fight. Violence is taboo and lower class. I don’t see that changing.

    Chic — Nearly about 85% of the Latinos in the US are in fact, Mexican. Everyone else is quite marginal, that includes Salvadoran. We are talking numbers here. Important when you look at social networks that exclude outsiders and include insiders.

    Moreover, you’re not seeing the implication of the obvious. Which is here in the US and Europe. Welfare spending, mostly from the White Middle class, to minorities, can’t continue when the White Middle Class is mostly out of work. THEY will want money to them, but you can’t have large Welfare spending to minorities, and Affirmative Action when opportunities for Whites are suddenly dropping. It’s a pure numbers game — Whites are still 75% or so of the population. It’s true Single Women can be peeled off, perhaps a 55% margin for the coalition — but spoils politics which AA is at it’s heart creates …

    Winners and losers. The Losers in a Depression that lasts a while, are guaranteed to make political trouble at the least. To me, that’s White Men, the only group that loses in AA.

    Like


  86. JaJaJa, lets be real to some extent a first lady is going to asume some type of power thru being the presidents wife. She is the one he sleeps beside at night and she is also the one who he tells his deepest secrets to.

    Teresa was/is a loose cannon

    Why because she had opinions.

    Like


  87. Whiskey is actually correct on what the majority of the population want in their first lady.

    The problem that is slowly developing, is that politicians are more likely to have wives with actual careers, and this problem may soon begin to affect the DNC more. Given that husbands periodically discuss work issues with their wives, is it better to have the high powered career wife or de facto stay at home wife?

    Well half black, but black according to blacks and according to him.

    According to my grandmother, regardless of his mother’s ancestry, Obama is not a mullatto because his skin is too dark…

    What I don’t like is electing such a leftist president, in a solidly both houses Democrat Congress.

    As one of the believers in the beauty and simplicity of the Parliamentary system, I wish more Americans would elect a Congress and President of the same political party and culture as often as possible regardless of which party wins. I’m sick of impotent useless divided government that’s crippled and useless and perpetually slow with no accountability.

    Like


  88. urrrr. ignore above.

    chicnoir 77–

    Joel why do you say Teresa a gold digger

    How do you think she came to have her centi millions?

    Do you think SHE earned it herself?

    How many women have? How many women some 40 years into hyper feminism, the most extreme anywhere in world history by far, have or do or are on their way to?

    Exactly.

    She gold dug her fortune.

    Like


  89. Is the average guy doing MMA training actually a beta? I admit to having close to zero knowledge of the MMA world, but I would think they would be more likely to be alphas.

    Like


  90. 86 chicnoir

    Why because she had opinions

    Paid for by her great entrepreurial enterprise, right?

    No. By her cuntly arts, sufficient for her prey, one Mr. Heinz. By her gold digging

    Like


  91. adam
    We already have a president who doesn’t read newspapers.

    I know Adam and you what has happened under his watch. We call this the okie doke where I come from.

    @dougjnn- Obama isn’t the first blk to run for president. Caroel Mosely Braun, Shirely Chislholm, Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton and, currently Cynthia McKinney for the green party. Obama just has more support from the mainstream.

    If I thought he was going to screw up, I would never vote for him. A president should be an intellectual who can relate to the people but not to folksy. He/she must also have a very analytical mind, and be strong in stressful situations. Think Ruddi Guillani 9/11 versus George.Bush
    ———————————————————
    Anybody going to see the Oliver Stone pic when it comes out?

    Anyone got real info on what the bailout entails?

    Like


  92. Why are men so jealous of women who have money. the hate for Oprah, Martha Steward and now Teresa Hines Carey is to much.

    white proles males hate Martha
    blk proles males hate Oprah

    Like


  93. Chicnoir 92–

    Well you haven’t called me prole but if you did it would either be completely ridiculous or the word would lose all meaning. Really. By any measure you choose my dear.

    I actually rather admire and respect Martha Steward. I think the feds bust of her was a trumped up abomination. I understand the ins and outs of that law, but don’t have all the inside details on that case, but that’s my take.

    I used to feel the same way, or actually quite a lot more, about Oprah. Yes she’s an amazing success story. It’s also true that once she got going, people really massively wanted to help her succeed. There had to be SOMEONE like her, and then she came along. But still. Oprah is impressive.

    She’s milked it so much though, in the soft feelings kind of way, in the Oprah can do no wrong kind of way, that I’m more than sick of her, and would love to see her fall flat on her face about now Don’t feel that way about Martha. She already did, and picked herself up. She’s ok.

    Like


  94. Roissy,

    I can’t figure you out. You always rant and rave about how fat American women are, implying that you prefer size-2 waifs, but a few days ago you posted about how supermodels have bodies like prepubescent boys.

    When I was working in DC, I didn’t see the hoards of obese women that you seem to think American women are. I’ll say the same for Philadelphia where I currently live. I see 4 or 5 attractive, professional women for every 250 pound woman waddling around.

    Like


  95. Doug 84
    Bernard Henri Levy wrote something very, very interesting recently in Le Pointe about Obama, in part saying that he’s Black but not the kind of Black that reminds White folks of Slavery; that he’s not a Jesse Jackson Black or an Al Sharpton Black and that makes Whites feel good about voting for him; that his father hailed directly from Kenya, and so has a more exotic appearance and is viewed in a completely different light than Slavery-bound African Americans.

    And this is why I’ve always questioned as to whether Obama was “Black Enough” because Black in America is defined as having been either directly or at least indirectly, descended from African Slaves and hence, part and parcel of the American Slavery Experience.

    And I think a lot of Whites, Left and Right, know the deal, too, and other people around the world know it too, and I don’t like that. And quite honestly, that’s one reason why I have a lot of trouble getting behind Obama. He’s not one of us.

    As for the whole MMA deal, w/a few notable exceptions its a haven for White boys who think they’re tough enough. Most of them can’t fight straight up and need the grappling/wrasslin’ element in order to do anything, this is what I’ve seen most of the time in the matches. I live a few blocks away from one of those boxing gyms and a few subway stops from the famed Blue Horizon, don’t get it twisted, any one of those dudes step up front and will catch a beatdown with the quickness.

    Also, don’t sleep on “McFoolery” like Aikido. My old sensei Cecilia (that’s right y’all Mu was taught by a woman-ha!) will make a gang of those MMA dudes real embarrassed for trying to have their way w/a woman. Trust me.

    Holla back

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  96. John: the fatties are all over the place. I’m not sure why you’re not seeing them. These days, I see plenty of fat college students (I mean, geez, can’t you at least wait until middle age before packing on the pounds?). Google “obesity by state” for a map, and remember… that’s BMI >30. You can still be rather chunky well below 30.

    a few days ago [roissy] posted about how supermodels have bodies like prepubescent boys

    The problem with that picture was not her build… it was her creepy facial structure.

    Like


  97. 95 Mu’Min:

    Also, don’t sleep on “McFoolery” like Aikido. My old sensei Cecilia (that’s right y’all Mu was taught by a woman-ha!) will make a gang of those MMA dudes real embarrassed for trying to have their way w/a woman. Trust me.

    For your own safety, don’t kid yourself.

    UFC in 1992 was the Roissy for the rest of the martial arts community. A lot of pretty lies in TMA (traditional martial arts) perished with the quickness. The Cage cares about only one thing: what works. There’s a reason why you don’t see Aikidoka in no-holds-barred fighting.

    I’ll just leave it at that.

    Like


  98. Mu’Min 95–

    Levy’s insight on Obama isn’t original, but rather derivative. The same idea has been around on this side of the pond ever since Obama started to emerge as a potential Democrat nominee.

    Like


  99. Chic Noir —

    Regarding Teresa Heinz Kerry: I saw the woman speak at fundraiser during the campaign of 2004, and she was so snotty, smug and supercilious that five minutes into the speech — five seconds, really — I would have happily punched her lights out.

    And I’m a moderate female who votes Democrat as often as Republican.

    Actually, what I really wanted to do was tell her to get over herself, because her money came from selling a bunch of ketchup. Not exactly a sophisticated achievement. 😀

    Like


  100. dougjnn – I understand the hatred of gold diggers, but THK was born into a wealthy family and her husband died in a plane crash, leaving her and their (three?) sons his fortune.

    I don’t understand how that works out as gold-digging??

    Also, the only “betas” that are going to have any job security if we go into a recession are the scientists and programmers. The blue collar guys – drywall, plumbers, electricians – have been working 15-20 hour weeks for the past year and a half.

    I’m don’t even know where to start on the assertions made that white, middle class labor is supporting mexicans via welfare. Are mexicans “taking all the jobs white americans could have” or are they on welfare? Someone decide and get back to me.

    Jesus H.

    Like


  101. Her culture is anglo white frontier culture. I know, like and respect that culture. It’s grounded and self reliant. It is not steeped in leftist or any other kind of dogma. What works is king. Practicality and pragmatism. Dispense with bullsh*t.

    -dougjnn

    LOL. Self reliant maybe (out of necessity), but grounded and pragmatic? Give me a break!

    You must be talking about Midwestern farmers, not Western prospectors and wildcatters. Not to mention loggers, fishermen, ranchers, miners, cowboys, etc. Biggest bunch of bar-brawlin’, whore-chasin’, whiskey drinkin’ savages in the country. They really do use unmarked black helicopters to keep those people in line — I’ve seen them myself! (In the Inside Passage the Coast Guard regularly boards vessels with automatic weapons and body armor to maintain some semblance of legal authority)

    BTW, them’s my roots. Someone mentioned Randy Couture. He’s from those folks, too. White frontiersmen have always been a rough, wild bunch. Ask the injuns about that.

    I invite anyone from DC or NY to come spend an evening at a backwoods tavern up here in the NW. You will probably come out in one piece (if you don’t attempt any game that is — those guys are on to that), but I can almost guarantee it will be an “unsettling” experience.

    Like


  102. Welmer – he hasn’t been near any Midwestern farmers I know, either. Most of them answer to one mistress, and she resides in the bottom of a can of Pabst.

    Like


  103. Elizabeth 99 —

    tell her to get over herself, because her money came from selling a bunch of ketchup.

    No.

    Her money came from marrying someone who sold a lot of ketchup, or who’s ancestors did.

    Where in fact are all the feminist super high achievers after these last 40 years of feminist hyper opening up and affirmative action promoting of women, outside the arts that is (where women have always been big achievers when allowed).

    It seems a pretty thin guel to me. But maybe I’m missing something.

    Like


  104. Less i-bank competetition. but society gets poorer women start to focus on their less malleable attraction switches – status and wealth. scene in the dark knight ‘bruce wayne’s place is the safest place in gotham right now. Thats where you want to be£

    Like


  105. 104 dougjnn

    Where in fact are all the feminist super high achievers after these last 40 years of feminist hyper opening up and affirmative action promoting of women, outside the arts that is (where women have always been big achievers when allowed).

    It seems a pretty thin guel to me. But maybe I’m missing something.

    The high achievers have always found a way to achieve, whatever field they were working in. They didn’t need feminism or affirmative action or anything else to boost them. Joan of Arc did not need feminism to be a general, and Madam Curie did not need feminism to be a scientist. There were female lawyers arguing cases in front of the Supreme Court in the nineteenth century; they didn’t wait around for the government to help them there.

    High achievers don’t need a boost. They blow obstacles out of their path.

    The initial goal of feminism was for women in general to have the same rights and opportunities as men. The goal was not to turn every woman into a Super Genius.

    Like


  106. 105 Elizabeth —

    I’m all for letting extaordinary women, such as perhaps yourself, be extraordinary. Encouraging that in fact.

    As for letting women in general have the same opportnities as men, that is not at all honest Elizabeth. The feminist movement has almost since it’s inception been about seeing to it that women had the same RESULTS as men, regardless of many other factors. If not, the field needed to be tilted more in women’s favor. Strong steady progress, rather than immediate statistical equity, was accepted, and pointed to as evidence of great moderation, worthy of great gratitude.

    Men work like crazy to be more attractive to women. Women don’t work nearly so hard out of school because it doesn’t help them much in seeming attractive, and can hurt. Further, they don’t have to; men line up to support the good looking ones, and don’t care about the income of the plain ones, or not much anyway.

    Like


  107. Elizabeth —

    So I guess you still can’t tell me about all these super female achievers in this feminist of all historical ages and places?

    I see a lot of office politics able, high feminist bureaucrats. Not so many high achievers.

    In science I see mainly hard plodders. Like Madam Cure. Some biologist ladies. Essentially no brilliant theorists.

    But over to you E.

    Like


  108. Hard times bring “hard” times.

    How original.

    Like


  109. Are mexicans “taking all the jobs white americans could have” or are they on welfare? Someone decide and get back to me.

    -QT

    Both. I see the guys hanging drywall and then I see their babymommas in the grocery store with food stamps.

    It started with the farm workers years ago. The state of Washington (where I live) actually helps pay for migrant laborer housing, education (for their kids) and medical care so the farmers can pay them less than minimum wage. Welfare to Mexicans is a hidden subsidy to American business owners, in fact. Problem is, it only benefits a minority of American citizens, and the rest of us pay for it (or will later).

    The Mexicans are perfect workers to many business owners. Employers have no obligations to illegals, because the state picks up the tab. But soon that will be too expensive. Then we’ll start to see why it was a very bad idea to pretend we didn’t have a border.

    Like


  110. Whiskey, good posts.

    You nail a lot of points. One thing that I would disagree with is the ability of wussified betas to turn violent. Some clearly can. And in an age of fourth generation warfare, large numbers of men fighting in mass armies are not necessary. Just a few thousand determined men could turn this country on its ear. I’m not predicting this, and certainly not advocating it, but the potential is there.

    The old America is gone. What has replaced it is a politically correct and ever more authoritarian empire. I don’t see this empire lasting all that much longer in its current form, as its behavior is so irrational and counter to reality. Just as individuals can get away with insane behavior for a time, so can nations. But eventually reality asserts itself. Political correctness will prevent the nation from properly addressing reality, thus guaranteeing mistake after mistake. How many mistakes can we afford? If and when we make it through this mess, how many other whoppers can we take? Political correctness will make sure that we find out.

    But moving away from fantastic predictions of collapsing empires and focusing more on the meat and potato issues, I would predict that the age of the player may be coming to an end. In a poorer and less optimistic society, people tend to be more straightforward and less ironic. They are much more risk averse, because making a mistake is more likely to result in real pain and hardship. In poor societies, the player tends to be seen as a cad. He is not admired. That’s not to say that there won’t always be players. There will be, just fewer of them – and they will have to evolve.

    For several decades, we have been able to act like jackasses (I’ve certainly done my share) and more or less get away with it, or at least EXPECT at the time that we would get away with it. That’s a great environment for the player to operate in, and that environment is likely to change quite a bit over the next few years, and certainly in the upcoming decades.

    Like


  111. Tupac 97,
    No, don’t YOU kid yourself. You’re talking to someone who took down two men nearly twice his size, at the same time and unarmed, w/nary a punch being thrown. Ki does wonders when you know how to use it.

    And that was on the streets, where it really counts.

    Remember Aikido’s ancestor Diato Aiki-Jiujitsu. It only takes some very slight and subtle moves to transform Ueshiba’s gentle art into a MFer.

    Word.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  112. @109 Welmer – Grew up there, very familiar with the farmworker issues. Also? Picked fruit for more than one summer and I don’t ever want to have to do that again. Given the obesity epidemic in this country, maybe more people SHOULD be doing manual labor…but then we would have to pay them more. So, do we pass on the cost of subsidizing mexican labor socially, via educating their kids, or do we pass on the REAL cost of food to the American consumer (with, lets call them “white people” doing the labor). I’m not asking that to be provacative. Just wondering what would be less onerous.

    Here in the midwest, immigrant labor is divided between (mostly) mexicans and Indians (as in dot). The mexicans do cheap asbestos removal (read -no protective gear), work in slaughterhouses, and of course, on farms. The Indians, it goes without saying, work inside buildings filled with test tubes.

    Like


  113. Aren’t most of the good fighters, really middle class white guys?

    For what it’s worth, if I had to fight a black or a white guy (age, size, and class being equal) I’d pick the black guy. Two things are more or less common to black guys in fights: showboating and lots of noisy intimidation (high bark to bite ratio) and often a nonchalant underestimation of their opponent.

    I’m probably one of very few middle class white guys who is not a “fight-virgin.” By the way, a scuffle with a friend or a couple sloppy punches at a club where bouncers immediately swarm in doesn’t count.

    Anyway, the fight I was in was in a subway car late in the evening — a black guy, about my age (early late 20s / early 30s at the time) standing near me mumbled something belligerent-sounding at me, I mumbled somethign back, and he hit me across the face. I hit him right back in his face, and then we started throwing punches at each other.

    I’m not sure how we were broken up, as the whole fight is a blur to me. But at the next station he stood on front of me, looking kind of surprised and I saw blood tickling down from his nose. He ran then away.

    When I got off the train, my adrenaline settled and I started touching my face to see if I’m hurt anywhere, but it didn’t feel like I was. I guess I won, I thought.

    A few weeks later, I park at a parking lot and we’re get out of the car. A car with two black guys stops behind my spot, and they are hollering something about me cutting them off. I had no idea what they were talking about, and I shrugged my shoulders and said to them “I guess I didn’t see you.”

    The passenger then did this move like he was gonna jump out of the car and fight me. I believe he was looking at the script that said “this is where the white boy runs away.”

    I took off my glasses, put them on top of my car, and just looked at him in a relaxed manner. [insert the sound of record scratching] He kind of froze in half-step and yelled somethign face-saving, and they drove off.

    Like


  114. A few weeks later, I park at a parking lot and we’re getting out of the car.

    I was with a girl, not with another guy.

    Like


  115. […] Sex blogger dude Roissy in D.C. says the recession will mean better sex: If a protracted and deep recession leads to the average woman cutting costs at the supermarket and […]

    Like


  116. on October 7, 2008 at 1:23 pm ironrailsironweights

    @ 113 PA –

    Cool stories, you certainly acted bravely when necessary.

    On the other hand, the typical over-30, middle class or above, white male cannot even conceive of slamming his fist into another man’s face no matter how dire the necessity. He would meekly take a beating from a physical inferior, for example a 16-year-old ghetto gangbanger during a mugging, without even trying to resist.

    Like


  117. on October 7, 2008 at 1:23 pm ironrailsironweights

    @ 113 PA –

    Cool stories, you certainly acted bravely when necessary.

    On the other hand, the typical over-30, middle class or above, white male cannot even conceive of slamming his fist into another man’s face no matter how dire the necessity. He would meekly take a beating from a physical inferior, for example a 16-year-old ghetto gangbanger during a mugging, without even trying to resist.

    Peter

    Like


  118. I’ve got 10+ years in brazilian jiu-jitsu and I’ve been boxing for more than, with a little bit of Muay Thai in between. I’ve been in a few street fights (almost all of which have been bailing out friends with big ass mouths fueled by drink) and I’ve also been stabbed. Many of the guys I spar with on the regular some former pros and are much better fighters than me avoid streetfights all together. Much like I do now. If you’re not getting paid for it then its best to walk away. That’s the mentality and its pervasive unless you’re dealing with a knucklehead. There are circumstances in which you must defend yourself but they are very rare. Now a lot of folks like to talk a big game but the chances that you will get into a fight with a fairly accomplished fighter is almost zero but if you do, they tend not to trash talk. Second, we’re living in an age were gangbangers have guns so if you think you’re faster than a bullet then stop watching the sci fi channel. That is all.

    Like


  119. Hey DF,

    I know you live in NY too. Any MMA or boxing schools to recommend? I don’t even know where to start, even so far as picking a particular discipline to pursue.

    Like


  120. For boxing, there is plenty to choose from but it largely depends what level you’re at. If you’ve got a good foundation then I recommend Church St, Gleason’s, or Kingsway, lots of good fighters and lots of pros too. However, that fact can make it very intimidating for beginners. If you’re starting out, you might want to try out Trinity boxing club. I haven’t been there but I hear good things. MMA schools have been popping up all over the place in NYC but I’ll shoot you an email.

    Like


  121. Mu, with respect, it just ain’t true that “[k]i does wonders when you know how to use it.” Aikido and the various ki (chi) manipulating martial arts have had their chance to shine in actual tests against other forms, and they’ve failed miserably.

    Modern MMA is rooted in BJJ, Muay Thai, western boxing, and western wrestling systems. These kinds of fighting styles are what works. None of them deliberately work with “ki”, they just concentrate on developing speed, strength, power (esp.), etc., and the true mental components of what is called “ki”: willpower, concentration, awareness, aggression, killer instinct, etc.

    Of course, on the street there is one supreme martial art of all: gun-do. (Except up close where knife-do can be superior). If someone pulls gun-do on you, your best chance is to respond with the most effective unarmed defensive art:

    Run-away-jitsu.

    Like


  122. I ain’t no expert on formal marial arts. But my impression is that these are the most important physical skills or attributes to have in a fight: (1) size; and (2) wrestling skills.

    From what little I’ve watched UFC, I’ve noted that in every more-or-less evenly matched fight, a couple of quick and rushed punches turn into two guys grappling on the floor, with the better wrestler tormenting the other guy into exhaustion.

    Like


  123. gun-do

    A handgun is effective at up to a couple of meters’ distance. Beyond 25 meters, its aim is very iffy. So if you think you can run, run.

    Like


  124. And speaking of guns, PA’s comments about preferring to fight a black guy ring true to me. I’ve had some to-dos with black guys over the years, and they’re all talk. Blacks seem to specialize in swarming attacks, or of course, gunwork, often aimed at the target’s back. The notion of “honourable” face-to-face fighting seems alien to them. Black guys, even ones bigger than you, will back down when challenged or even just faced squarely.

    Blacks seem to share Lenin’s philosophy: “Probe with bayonets. If you encounter steel, withdraw. If you encounter mush, continue.”

    Other than the bayonets reference, sounds about right to me. I get the impression that blacks “fight” either to extract something from the target (money, or from women sex…a rapist is willing to “fight” the woman for what he wants), or else because of “dozens”-style dominance contests looping out of control.

    White guys, especially the kind Welmer described, actually fight for the sheer cussed enjoyment of it. I think a lot of white guy fighting (of this traditional and dying-out kind) is an expression of white men’s thymos or masculine energy and high spirits. Underlies things like extreme sports and other crazy-ass shit white guys do.

    Not that we have much thymos left these days. But back when we did, we conquered the planet.

    Like


  125. PA, in UFC you still need stand up. A fast guy like GSP can avoid shoots, stay on his feet and kill you with his hands. Of course, GSP has also shown an ability to rassle. 🙂

    As for street fighting, wrestling and takedowns don’t work on concrete. Best bet: take the guy down firstest with the mostest. Then hightail it the f*ck out of there before his friends get you.

    Like


  126. Thanks DF, I was torn between Trinity and Church. Gleason’s I figured would be intimidating to start at, but i didn’t want to go to one of those yuppie-style boxing gyms for weekend warriors where they go too easy on you either. There a lot of boxing gyms that advertise themselves as being perfect for those who are afraid of getting hit or hurt. Why bother boxing then?

    Like


  127. PA 125: Yep. Run-away-jitsu. Your chances are suprisingly good with it.

    Like


  128. The notion of “honourable” face-to-face fighting seems alien to them. Black guys, even ones bigger than you, will back down when challenged or even just faced squarely.

    Okay, I actually agree with a lot of what PA said about black guys, but you are taking it a bit too far. While there are a lot of black guys out there who are more bark than bite, it is an exaggeration to say that none of them believe in face to face honorable fighting. There are a lot of them that love to knuckle up and fight a guy one on one. The difference is, these guys won’t talk a whole bunch, they’ll keep the talk short and get you with the “one-hitter quitter.” I would hate for people to start assuming that all black thug guys are all talk or are averse to fair fights, because such advice will get somebody “got” quick.

    For example in the hood you have these cats who have been going back and forth between boxing gyms, Golden Glove bouts, short jail stints and being bodyguards for drug dealers. These types are not all talk. Anyone who specializes in robbing other criminals also tends to be not all talk either. while the all-talk punks are definitely the majority, the real deal dudes are a sizable minority. The more a guy talks without swinging on you, the more likely he is to be a punk. The key is being able to tell the difference.

    Keep in mind, the bark over bite thing is not just a black thing but a matriarchy thing in general. Any society that puts women on a pedestal or is primarily raised by women has this tendency, because the men learn conflict resolution by being surrounded by women. Hence the emotional outbursts, nonstop talking, grudge holding, etc. It’s a form of nagging if you think about it. Guidos are very matriarchal too and you see a lot of the big talk, swarm fighting stuff among them too.

    Like


  129. For what it’s worth, if I had to fight a black or a white guy (age, size, and class being equal) I’d pick the black guy.

    What if the white guy is a hipster? 😀

    Like


  130. T 128: it is an exaggeration to say that none of them believe in face to face honorable fighting.

    Well, yes. Thanks for pointing that out.

    Like


  131. on October 7, 2008 at 4:55 pm ironrailsironweights

    From what little I’ve watched UFC, I’ve noted that in every more-or-less evenly matched fight, a couple of quick and rushed punches turn into two guys grappling on the floor, with the better wrestler tormenting the other guy into exhaustion.

    I’ve watched a fair amount of UFC and other MMA fighting and have noticed an interesting trend. Fights tend to be primarily standup or primarily groundfighting, and only rarely feature anything approaching an even balance of the two.

    Like


  132. One of the more startling insights I ever came across on the Internet is T’s observation on his blog about how the loud emotionalistic behavior of the ghetto guys / guidos, etc. is in fact a feminine quality borne of lack of male guidance.

    Like


  133. T #126, boxing unlike grappling requires a very strong foundation before you can begin to spar. Throwing a punch correctly, much less a combination, is not as easy as people think for a duration of a match or even a single round. Keep in mind that when you’re looking at professionals fight they’ve got years of training down and they know defense instinctively at that point. I wouldn’t recommend anyone jump into sparring until they’ve got six months to a year of solid boxing training.

    On the other hand, grappling requires that you begin sparring immediately to build a number of skills. Proper sparring is not started from a stand up position but from your knees.

    I ain’t no expert on formal marial arts. But my impression is that these are the most important physical skills or attributes to have in a fight: (1) size; and (2) wrestling skills.

    Height and reach are probably the best attributes to have in a weight class. A tall person striking expends less energy if the direction of their punches is on a downward angle, as opposed to a person that must punch upward to compensate for a height deficit.

    Like


  134. DF – good to know about the boxing/sparring thing. At this point I think I’ll just choose whichever is the cheaper of Trinity or Church.

    Like


  135. The notion of “honourable” face-to-face fighting seems alien to them.

    PatrickH, lets get one thing straight. Street fights are not about fairness or honor. A streetfight is about winning by any means necessary. If you want honourable face to face fighting with “rules” then step into a ring with a ref because that’s the only place you’ll find it. While I understand your lament, it is the typical excuse of a person that has either never been in a streetfight or hasn’t won one.

    Like


  136. Wow, T. You keep throwing thumbsuckers like that out, your intellectual stock is going to get downgraded faster than Lehman Brothers.

    “What’s a gamma?”

    “Meh. Beta’s good enough for me.”

    “Not ALL black men are like that!”

    “Thank you.”

    Sigh. You’re a real disappointment. Challenge you even a little, and you fold. Too bad.

    Like


  137. DF, I used quotes around “honourable” to indicate my understanding of that point. My general point was not that black men lack honour any more than white guys do. It’s that displays of dominance, often verbal, are engaged in by black guys as part of “sorting things out”. And physical toe-to-toe hammering at one another is what happens when that goes wrong. This kind of verbal display is common in Arab culture (others too), and when met with stoical “white” (northern Euro basically) blankfaced stone, is escalated in search of a response. With often disastrous results.

    A response of challenge back is usually enough to convince the black guy there’s no pickings here.

    Toe to toe fighting “honourable” style is a dying practice. It’s a way of “sorting things out” that doesn’t really exist any more.

    I said: “As for street fighting, wrestling and takedowns don’t work on concrete. Best bet: take the guy down firstest with the mostest. Then hightail it the f*ck out of there before his friends get you.” That’s my take on streetfighting. Nothing to do with “honour”.

    As for whether I’ve been in any streetfights, well I suppose I could plead my case with you, whom I believe has seen action, and with outright frauds like T, but I won’t. What matters is the truth (remember that concept?) of my comments.

    Like


  138. Wow, T. You keep throwing thumbsuckers like that out, your intellectual stock is going to get downgraded faster than Lehman Brothers.

    “What’s a gamma?”

    “Meh. Beta’s good enough for me.”

    “Not ALL black men are like that!”

    “Thank you.”

    Sigh. You’re a real disappointment. Challenge you even a little, and you fold. Too bad.

    What the fuck are you even talking about?

    Like


  139. 106 dougjnn

    The feminist movement has almost since it’s inception been about seeing to it that women had the same RESULTS as men, regardless of many other factors.

    That’s why I said the initial goal. 🙂 I don’t have a problem with the feminists who wanted to obtain the vote and open schools up to women. (Obviously.) It’s hard for a woman to become, say, a doctor when medical schools don’t allow women to study there, and there were a lot of schools like that.

    But I believe in equality of opportunity — or as close as we can get to it, anyway — not equality of results. I’m a pretty ruthless believer in the meritocracy.

    107 dougjnn

    So I guess you still can’t tell me about all these super female achievers in this feminist of all historical ages and places?

    Well, if you named a particular field, I could probably come up with female high achievers in it — but I do think most brilliant outliers are men. That’s pretty much born out by the statistics, which is why what happened to Larry Summers was despicable (and why he shouldn’t have apologized).

    This is not to say that the average man is smarter than the average woman, just that most intellectually brilliant people (and most complete dullards) are men. Women seem to cluster more around average or above-average but not brilliant. There are a lot of theories on why that would be so, but I don’t really care about the explanations, so long as the opportunity is there for smart people to excel, and for ordinary people to support themselves, regardless of gender (or color, race, etc.).

    Like


  140. Toe to toe fighting “honourable” style is a dying practice. It’s a way of “sorting things out” that doesn’t really exist any more.

    PatrickH, I hear you but I’m telling you it never existed. You are romanticizing history to suit your worldview.

    Like


  141. PatrickH @ 138 –

    Okay Pat, I reread your comment a few times to try to make sense of it. First I looked up “thumbsucker.” Let me just say, the unintentional irony of you using that term against someone else is hilarious.

    Second, I think you need to understand the difference between backing down to someone and being dismissive. when someone actually has some intellectual meat to their comment, I ALWAYS respond to it in kind. When your response is just a one-line sarcastic, snarky crack like you’ve been doing since yesterday, then I just dismiss it. Because that type of shit is feminine, it’s juvenile, and it’s passive aggressive. Or as you put it, a “thumbsucker.” It’s bitchassness. My rule of thumb is that the only way to respond to bitchassness is with more sarcasm, snarkiness and passive aggression, in which case you just get two bitches instead of one. No thanks. In this case, you got a little less bitchy and actually called me out, so I respond in kind, but when you do little passive aggressive cheap shots and subliminal pissy stealth insults like you’ve been lobbing at me since yesterday, I just dismiss and ignore you. That shit’s not manly and responding to it is beneath me.

    Now as for the “outright fraud” thing, I have not gotten into a fistfight in maybe 12 years, back when I was in college. I’ll be the first person to say that. Never claimed I was out there fistfighting on the regular. That being said, anyone who lives in black neighborhoods, especially Bed-Stuy, gets to learn the difference between who’s real about violence and who’s all talk. It’s a simple basic survival skill because people will test you regularly there.

    That being said, I have no problem with you. I don’t know if someone pissed in your cornflakes yesterday or your dog died or what your problem is with me, and honestly I don’t care. But I’m not going to get into a prolonged internet pissing match with a stranger. But get a thicker skin man, for real.

    Like


  142. It existed. It was called duelling.

    Like


  143. Elizabeth 141 —

    Well, if you named a particular field, I could probably come up with female high achievers in it — but I do think most brilliant outliers are men. That’s pretty much born out by the statistics, which is why what happened to Larry Summers was despicable (and why he shouldn’t have apologized).

    You’re just so f*cking honest — and perceptive Elizabeth. How can I stay irritated at you? It’s impossible. I can’t. 😉

    Like


  144. You’re just so f*cking honest — and perceptive Elizabeth. How can I stay irritated at you? It’s impossible. I can’t.

    I have to give it to her, she’s batting 1000 today.

    Like


  145. T, I have no problem with you either. When I asked you about Russian guys going “gamma” and you responded with “what’s a gamma?” I thought you were being pissy with me. Hence my response to you. It never occurred to me that you genuinely did not know what I meant.

    The irony of you saying my use of “thumbsucker” was ironic when you had to look it up is itself ironic, isn’t it?

    T, Ricky, whoever you are, you strike me as a smart guy. But it’s clear you’re young. How on earth someone can write about human relations, gender relations, and all the other stuff you write about without even knowing what gamma is escapes me. Why you would allow Roissy’s tendentious appropriation of “alpha” and “beta” to subsume your own ability to even think about relations between the sexes and issues of dominance and hierarchy between men is another mystery to me.

    As for the rest of our exchange, it’s clear to me that you’re young and touchy. Perhaps I share the trait of touchiness. (Youth is behind me, unfortunately.) I will grant you this, though. When I did challenge you, you didn’t flip off the entire question of what the truth is, unlike the appalling Sara. You do seem to care about reason, logic, thinking, facts do seem to matter to you, arguments do need to make sense for you to agree to them. This bespeaks a fundamental intellectual integrity that bodes well for you. The Saras of this world have been so irredeemably damaged by whatever education they’ve had that they literally DO NOT CARE whether what they say corresponds to reality or not. To them, there is no such thing as reality. That is not true of you. Which means I can disagree with you. There is nothing to say to the Saras of the world at all. You can, I hope, be talked with. I think I’m right about this.

    As for my comment about you being a fraud, I withdraw it. I was irritated at DF’s misreading of my earlier comment and introduction of an ad hominem attack into his “response”, implying that only someone who’s never been in a streetfight could express the opinion he misread me as having. So I kicked back, inappropriately. I don’t think you’re a fraud at all, no matter whether you’ve been in a fight or not for no matter how many years. You’re fraudulent only if you lie, and you don’t strike me as a liar at all. Your opinions should be challenged on their own merits.

    As should mine.

    I continue to get too much out of your comments to turn away from you in irritation. I ask, in hope as much as in expectation, that you extend the same courtesy to me. My comments are not “thumbsuckers”, given how they seem to arouse anger and incomprehension from some people here. Neither are yours.

    So I shall climb down, and revert to my previous attitude of respect for your smarts and intellectual agility. And your willingness to walk down dangerous paths. I hope you can learn to see the value in my own contributions, such as they are.

    Like


  146. MarkD, Its the single most misunderstood practice today. Traditionally, only nobles participated in duels. Deuling across classes was considered anathema with rare exceptions. Nobles were the only one’s with the means and the time to train with the weapons used. Until the widespread availability of the gun.

    Patrick’s assertion that there was a proper way to settle things the “old fashion” way isn’t what either of you think. In many cases, if a commoner insulted a noble the noble didn’t invite the commoner to a duel, he just had a servent kick his ass or kill him. Is that what you meant by settling things properly? I didn’t think so.

    Like


  147. Patrick H –

    I genuinely didn’t know what “gamma” meant. I googled it and had trouble finding a good consistent answer. It was an honest question. When I said I preferred to just stick to the alpha/beta dichotomy, my only point was that all these posts debating what is and isn’t beta already get confusing enough, I don’t want to get myself even more confused by adding in a new 3rd term. I wasn’t trying to insult you or be flippant. I am smart in some areas, but there are some remarkably simple things I don’t know (like the term “thumbsucker.”)

    As far as being touchy, I really don’t think I am. Since yesterday you’ve been making snarky one-liners at me and I’ve been doing my best to ignore them and give you the benefit of the doubt. It wasn’t until you outright called me out and called me an “outright fraud” that I responded, as I thought that was a bit much. How could I NOT respond to that? You pretty much gave me no choice! Considering that a lot of people here would have been flying off the handle since yesterday, I’d say I’ve been pretty patient.

    I’m 34, don’t know if that counts as young or not.

    Like


  148. Oh, and i agree about Sara being appalling. 😀

    Like


  149. 145 dougjnn

    You’re just so f*cking honest — and perceptive Elizabeth. How can I stay irritated at you? It’s impossible. I can’t.

    Hee. Thanks. 😀

    146 T. AKA Ricky Raw

    I have to give it to her, she’s batting 1000 today.

    And again, thanks. 😀

    I’m 34, don’t know if that counts as young or not.

    Enjoy your last year of being young. 😉 I read an article about a study of how the human body starts to change/slow down at 35, so scientists have dubbed that the onset of middle age.

    Like


  150. Enjoy your last year of being young. I read an article about a study of how the human body starts to change/slow down at 35, so scientists have dubbed that the onset of middle age.

    Yay. 😦

    Like


  151. Elizabeth 141 —

    This is not to say that the average man is smarter than the average woman, just that most intellectually brilliant people (and most complete dullards) are men. Women seem to cluster more around average or above-average but not brilliant. There are a lot of theories on why that would be so, but I don’t really care about the explanations, so long as the opportunity is there for smart people to excel, and for ordinary people to support themselves, regardless of gender (or color, race, etc.).

    This is very much my take. I can’t see how it isn’t identical in fact. We ought to do more to promote the extraordinary in this country in fact. More widespread tracking for example. Extraordinary women as well as men, to be sure.

    But I believe in equality of opportunity — or as close as we can get to it, anyway — not equality of results. I’m a pretty ruthless believer in the meritocracy.

    Would you agree with me then that everywhere affirmative action, or percentage goals, and similar, are still applied for women, they should end?

    In many respects I think we’d be a whole lot better off if all feminism simply stopped “progressing” from about say 1975. The opening up of admissions and all professional schools and fields, check. Women should feel free to pursue any career, check. The sexual revolution – check.

    Exaggerated and very one sided sexual harassment public and civil law – uncheck. Affirmative action for women – uncheck. Gender is a social construct – uncheck. Gender studies departments and boondogles – uncheck. One sided no fault divorce where men pay through the nose includngregardless, despite women’s career opportunities – uncheck. Politics is personal (and should be brought to the bedroom) – uncheck. Equal pay for “equal work” (which is I believe in the current Dem platform) – uncheck. “Glass ceiling” nashing of teeth – uncheck.

    Maybe women don’t make the best CEOs – usually. Certainly their record so far hasn’t been impressive, including one Carli Fiornina. That doesn’t mean the best CEO ever couldn’t one day turn out to be a woman. It just might mean the numbers will never be there — in part because far fewer women will be willing (with husband support) to put in huge daily hours in the trenches in hopes of getting there, but with the likelihood they never will.

    And so on and so forth.

    Like


  152. T – aka R. Raw —

    I genuinely didn’t know what “gamma” meant. I googled it and had trouble finding a good consistent answer. It was an honest question.

    Consult Roissy’s chart at this link

    http://roissy.wordpress.com/2007/09/19/defining-the-alpha-male/

    for what HE means by it, and more or less what I gather many in the PUA community mean. It is of course nothing more than definitional. Also, as you’ll notice in the comparable chart for women,

    http://roissy.wordpress.com/2007/09/27/defining-the-alpha-female/

    Roissy get’s a lot less serious about his distinctions at the lower end of the scale, going for a laugh often instead.

    There’s some utility in bookmarking those links I’ve found. It shouldn’t be necessary to remind everyone that EVEN ROISSY doesn’t consider these charts ranks of overall human worth, but rather of attractiveness on the mating market to the other sex. (Well, he does often rather conflate the two, but we don’t have to.)

    Like


  153. 153 dougjnn

    Would you agree with me then that everywhere affirmative action, or percentage goals, and similar, are still applied for women, they should end?

    Yes. Especially on college campuses. There are a lot of state schools where the gender ratios have reach 60/40 in favor of women. It’s pretty absurd, in light of that fact, for people to pretend that universities discriminate against women.

    We ought to do more to promote the extraordinary in this country in fact.

    Yes. One feature of the American school system that I find thoroughly disgusting is the obsession with having all the students move at the same pace. Smart students deserve to be put on an accelerated track; they shouldn’t be stuck in classrooms where the teachers have to teach to the lowest common denominator.

    One sided no fault divorce where men pay through the nose includngregardless, despite women’s career opportunities – uncheck.

    I don’t have much of a problem with no-fault divorce — which exists as much for the convenience of grotesquely overburdened courts as it does for the parties (imagine having a trial to prove adultery) — but custody, alimony laws, etc. definitely need to be modernized.

    Like


  154. Just wanted to say a few words about Aikido real quick.

    Aikido kinda gets a bad rap in the Martial Arts world, mainly because of its refusal to mix it up. There are no tournamets or awards ceremonies, instead there are demonstrations and when belts and “dans” are awarded its usually very lowkey. The big difference between Aikido and other Martial Arts, even fellow Japanese ones, is that it focuses purely on Defence.

    There are strikes or blows administered in Aikido, nor are there kicks. In fact, it is very, very rare to see an Aikidoka lift a foot off the ground. This is because of both the main principle of Ki, or literally life force energy, and because of the link to the Samurai of old, who didn’t engage in kicks, at least not he above the waist ones like one sees in Tae Kwon Do, in order to keep balanced.

    Aikido focuses a lot more on developing inner strength and awareness, all essential for manipulating Ki, especially an opponent’s. I think it was DF who said that grappling style martial arts require almost from day one to spar because that’s the only real way you learn the moves. This is true of Aikido, and, as he said, you spend a lot of time on your knees, which is the traditional Japanese way of sitting.

    In fact there is an entire “school” of combat in Aikido that focuses just on the knee-sitting positin, including dealing w/mulitiple attackers and disarming attackers-by that I mean, swords, taking them from people. Of course, hardly anyone carries around a sword nowadays, but its a good thing to know, the theory and principle.

    Another thing Aikido focuses on are joints, which are the real weak areas of any body, no matter how much muscle one has. In fact, I, at about 180lbs could, if I got into the right position, put all my weight on “one point”-focusing on say, DF’s shoulder joint while he was a half kneeling position. It would be virtually impossible for him to stand up because the weight of my body is solely focused on that one joint. This is why it is relatively easy for an Aikidoka, especially a highly trained and experienced one, to so easily make quick work of bigger and stronger foes-they focus on strength, power and size, not realizing that their true inner strength comes from Ki. So when they go at an Aikidoka, all they’re doing is giving their Ki-all of it-to him or her. Bad move.

    Oh, and one of the worst things you can do to an Aikidoka is kick them, its an wide open invite for them to up-end your Ki and knock you totally off balance. Learning Aikido brought new meaning to the old hood term, “being knocked off the square”. In fact Aikidokas are taught not to pick their fight up, but rather to slide them accross the floor, maximizing one’s connection to the earth and being grounded.

    Another reason why Aikido isn’t too popular-it has one of the highest attrition rates of any martial art-is because its pretty tough to learn. You spend at least the first few months, and in my case about 6, simply learning how to fall and roll, and of course being thrown around by Sensei. Then there’s all the grabs, holds and locks, which are very subtle from one another but are huge in impact.

    One of Aikido’s biggest strengths is in being able to defend oneself against the kind of “swarming attacks that Pat mentioned earlier. This is because you have a whole lot of Ki to work with, and its all focused on you. If you get in the center of the mob, manipulating their Ki is a breeze, because their focused on getting you, and not paying attention to each other. This was how I was able to take down two much larger and stronger men than myself by staying between them and using their Ki against each other, essentially beating them up w/each other. A good idea of what this looks like is in taking a look at some of those old Steve Seagal movies.

    Aikido is a modern day descendant of an older style fighting art which included of course the use of the sword. That older form included also low kicks and lethal strikes to joint areas, including the throat. Aikido doesn’t have these moves, as it was intended to be a more peaceful and merciful way of dealing w/opponents; its also frowned upon by the higherups in Aikido organizations to seek these things out. So I studied them a bit off the books, so to speak. Never had to put them to use, but always good to know.

    Thinking about it, Aikido is probably the closest thing in the martial arts world to the Jedi way of doing things, both in terms of using the Force, and as well, in terms of the overall mindset.

    As for MMA, their use of Muay Thai is w/o a doubt no joke. That is one mean system, a bruiser. In fact, I’d say that w/the possible exception of Krav Maga, the Southeast Asian fighting systems like MT, Arnis and Kali are the way to go if you’re looking to get the biggest bang for your buck. Plus they’re ready made for the streets.

    Holla back

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  155. 136 DF
    PatrickH, lets get one thing straight. Street fights are not about fairness or honor. A streetfight is about winning by any means necessary. If you want honourable face to face fighting with “rules” then step into a ring with a ref because that’s the only place you’ll find it. While I understand your lament, it is the typical excuse of a person that has either never been in a streetfight or hasn’t won one.

    I’d think someone who’d lost one would know this. That’s how you learn, after all.

    Street fights are all about cheap shots and ganging up on people. No honor involved. That’s why there’s nothing dishonorable about packing a gun in a bad neighborhood — it’s just common sense.

    Like


  156. 93dougjnn
    Chicnoir 92–

    Well you haven’t called me prole but if you did it would either be completely ridiculous or the word would lose all meaning. Really. By any measure you choose my dear.

    I did not call you a name. I don’t do name calling. If I offended you by posting that, then I apologize. I was simply posting something that I’ve come across. I only use the term prole tongue in check because of its popularity in these parts. I prefer working class to prole.

    Like


  157. I actually rather admire and respect Martha Steward. I think the feds bust of her was a trumped up abomination. I understand the ins and outs of that law, but don’t have all the inside details on that case, but that’s my take.

    Doesn’t it seen fishy to you that so much attention was put into trying Martha by both the media and the court system. What about that band of corporate thieves who where taken down during that time?

    Like


  158. @They really do use unmarked black helicopters to keep those people in line — I’ve seen them myself! (In the Inside Passage the Coast Guard regularly boards vessels with automatic weapons and body armor to maintain some semblance of legal authority)

    Are you joking? Please tell me more.

    @ dougjnn- Look up Madame CJ Walker, she made her fortune about 100 years ago. Also check Estee Lauder and Carol Price is doing great things.

    Whiskey- I need numbers to prove that most Hispanics in this country are indeed Mexican. Most may use Mexico to enter this country but I doubt if 85% are indeed Mexican.

    @elizabeth-If you want to make it big with an invention, use the KISS method. I can recall reading about a woman making a lot of money from her invention of a type of hair srunchie sold on late night infomercials in the 90’s.

    Like


  159. 161 Chic Noir

    Nah, I have no desire to invent anything. Well, except stories. 🙂

    Like


  160. Comment 105- Cosign Elizabeth

    I’m probably one of very few middle class white guys who is not a “fight-virgin.”

    😯
    PA is a thug 😦
    I am afraid of you.

    Like


  161. Oh Elizabeth, sorry I was trying to explain why Teresa’s husband’s* family became wealthy.

    Like


  162. Dougjnn said That doesn’t mean the best CEO ever couldn’t one day turn out to be a woman. It just might mean the numbers will never be there — in part because far fewer women will be willing (with husband support) to put in huge daily hours in the trenches in hopes of getting there, but with the likelihood they never will.

    Husband support can be found in a marriage of convenience
    . Geez people expect to much out of marriage and other human beings these days.
    You know we can’t really say to much about female CEOs since most CEOs are kicked out as soon as something goes wrong. CEOs are no longer given an opportunity to fix what went wrong before being replaced.

    FYI, Towson University has an Affirmative Action program for male students read white male students since the student body is largely white. Guess what, I don’t have a problem with it either nor do I hear people bitching and complaining about it.

    Like


  163. Patrick H said:Blacks seem to specialize in swarming attacks, or of course, gunwork, often aimed at the target’s back. The notion of “honorable” face-to-face fighting seems alien to them

    This happened sometime in the 80’s when BM stoped fighting with their fists. Now guns are used to settle what a good old fashion one on one can settle.

    T said because such advice will get somebody “got” quick. [email protected]

    Dougjn said:Exaggerated and very one sided sexual harassment public and civil law – uncheck.
    If sexual harrasement laws seem onesided it’s because of two reasons:
    1. Women on avereage just don’t feel the need to call out to every attractive man that we see. To get the average woman to act in the same manner that some men do when they see an attractive woman, the male specimen being ogled should be nothing less than a 10. Think Denzeil Washington about 15-20 years ago or Christen Bale in Batman.
    2. Men ridicule other men when they want to speak out against being sexually harassed by a woman. You can’t blame women for that.

    Gender studies departments and boondogles – uncheck.
    Why do you have a problem with gender studies departments?

    One sided no fault divorce where men pay through the nose includngregardless, despite women’s career opportunities – uncheck
    If the husband demanded a stay at home wife then what?

    Politics is personal (and should be brought to the bedroom) – uncheck.

    Oh really, why can’t two spouses have different opinions about the world? It seemed to work for James Carvelle and his wife.

    Equal pay for “equal work” (which is I believe in the current Dem platform) – uncheck.
    Why not? There are many women don’t have children who are willing to work as many hours as any male employee so why shouldn’t she be compensated for her hard work?

    “Glass ceiling” nashing of teeth – uncheck
    What is your problem with the glass ceiling?

    Like


  164. 160 chicnoir
    @They really do use unmarked black helicopters to keep those people in line — I’ve seen them myself! (In the Inside Passage the Coast Guard regularly boards vessels with automatic weapons and body armor to maintain some semblance of legal authority)

    Are you joking? Please tell me more.

    No, no joke at all. I don’t know whether you remember Ruby Ridge or not, but you might want to look it up.

    Outside of the hip urban enclaves of Juneau, Missoula, Spokane, Portland and Seattle the NW is still pretty savage. I saw the black helicopters when I was driving on a logging road near Oso, WA. The chopper swooped down and there was a a guy in BDUs with sunglasses manning a machine gun and hanging out the side door. They buzzed the car — probably just to mess with me. I’m pretty sure I could see him laughing about it.

    Fishermen on the Inside Passage are sometimes subjected to being boarded by Coast Guard troops who check for contraband. It’s not entirely without reason; there have been some serious drug smuggling operations working under the cover of legitimate fishing businesses.

    A friend of mine used to fish by Ketchikan, and he said that plenty of skippers dealt in more than just salmon and halibut. You can go out to the national parks on Sundays, when legal logging operations are supposed to be shut down, and hear Stihls and Husqvarnas singing as they cut through the meaty trunks of old-growth evergreens.

    If you aren’t careful, you might run into Vietnamese mushroom-picking gangs in the forests, too (no kidding — those shiitakes are worth a lot of money). They will mess you up if you get in their way.

    It’s fun, but hardly civilized. I like to get out there sometimes to feel alive again. For the most part, the locals hate the government with a passion, but they’re perfectly willing to take federal money too. The hypocrisy enrages leftists, but I just think it’s funny.

    Like


  165. 111 Mu’Min:

    No, don’t YOU kid yourself. You’re talking to someone who took down two men nearly twice his size, at the same time and unarmed, w/nary a punch being thrown.

    You wanna go?!?!

    Like


  166. Wow Welmer

    I am really curious now.
    I am such a chump when it comes to traveling within America. On the other hand,have no problem going to another country of which I can speak a few words at best of the local language.

    Like


  167. 118 DF:

    Second, we’re living in an age were gangbangers have guns so if you think you’re faster than a bullet then stop watching the sci fi channel.

    This is certainly true. If someone finds themselves having to contend with armed assailants, the best thing to do is change the environment you hang out in. It’s that simple. Don’t be a hero.

    Like


  168. 122 PA:

    From what little I’ve watched UFC, I’ve noted that in every more-or-less evenly matched fight, a couple of quick and rushed punches turn into two guys grappling on the floor, with the better wrestler tormenting the other guy into exhaustion.

    The concensus is that 95% of all streetfights follow the same pattern: a few haymakers get thrown, then it goes to a clinch, then someone trips or gets thrown to the ground (where the fight is finished).

    This is why Mu’s comment about MMA guys not knowing how to keep on their feet is misguided.

    Like


  169. 126 Slick Rick:

    Thanks DF, I was torn between Trinity and Church. Gleason’s I figured would be intimidating to start at, but i didn’t want to go to one of those yuppie-style boxing gyms for weekend warriors where they go too easy on you either.

    That was my dilemma as well. The only “real” boxing gyms are in the inner city and frequented by some reallhardcases. I only had a year of gay ass karate as a teenager so I felt I’d be out of place. But I didn’t want some foo foo aerobic boxing shit either. Luckily there was a MMA gym close to my home that focused on BJJ, freestyle wrestling and Muay Thai. Perfect. And it was a professional operation so they teach you gradually: starting with ground grappling, then comes upright greco-roman wrestling and takedowns, and then after 2-3 months you start doing some sloppy sparring with the gloves just to get the feel (you don’t really get that good at first, like DF said real boxing skills take 6 months to a year of hitting bags before you even step in a ring).

    Like


  170. Yeah TC, that’s exactly what I meant, that “aerobics boxing” crap.

    Like


  171. Tupac,
    “Wanna go” where? Please explain?

    I don’t get into fights just because. Just explaining Aikido is all, and what I’ve seen it do. In the real. That’s it.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  172. 173 Mu’Min:

    “Wanna go” where? Please explain?

    Break yo’ self fool!!!!!

    Like


  173. 166 Welmer

    Outside of the hip urban enclaves of Juneau, Missoula, Spokane, Portland and Seattle the NW is still pretty savage.

    168 chicnoir

    Wow Welmer

    I am really curious now.
    I am such a chump when it comes to traveling within America.

    Chic Noir, I’d be wary of anyone who describes Missoula as a “hip enclave.”

    Also, I’ve lived in the Northwest for all but four years of my life (not in a “hip enclave”), and I have never seen a black helicopter or a Scary Northwestern Savage. The people here are the same as people anywhere. I met a lot more paranoid, crazy loons when I worked in New York City.

    Give me a freakin’ break.

    Like


  174. Krav Maga: Overrated, but very good for the neophyte when you really, really have to take that gun away, NOW.
    Civilian self-defense law is a joke, even more stringent than in the US, but at least there is no “duty to retreat” in public.

    Like


  175. 175 Elizabeth

    Chic Noir, I’d be wary of anyone who describes Missoula as a “hip enclave.”

    Missoula is hippietown. It reeks of patchouli and pot smoke. It’s even worse than the ‘Ave used to be. Anyone who can’t see that must be smoking some tuff stuff.

    Also, I’ve lived in the Northwest for all but four years of my life (not in a “hip enclave”), and I have never seen a black helicopter or a Scary Northwestern Savage. The people here are the same as people anywhere. I met a lot more paranoid, crazy loons when I worked in New York City.

    Give me a freakin’ break.

    You probably internalized the culture, and therefore can’t see how out of whack it is.

    This is the problem with a lot of these backwoods freaks — they truly don’t know any better. They imagine that driving a Chevy Nova and throwing empties out the window with a .18 BAC and high on meth on some mountain road covered with black ice is totally normal. That’s why the black helicopters are necessary, BTW.

    A couple years ago a guy from backwoods Montana went nuts with a shotgun and wasted a bunch of ravers on Capitol Hill after a weeks-long meth binge. Elizabeth probably thinks he’s just a good ol’ boy who didn’t mean nuthin’ serious. Really…

    Just a couple months ago a 14-year-old boy drilled a female hiker with a high-powered rifle near Oso (where I saw the black helicopter), saying “she looked like a bear to me.” Interestingly, another female hiker had been found with her head blown clean off a year or so before in the same general area.

    Like


  176. Chic Noir 158

    Since this is a quasi-economics thread, let me ask:

    WHY IS THERE SO MUCH HATIN’ ON PROLES? I mean, what is that all about?

    As a member of the Unionized, Blue Collar Working Class, this really bothers me, and not out of some misguided noble views of Prole Life, because I know perhaps better than anyone here that they can and often do do dumb ish. But so too do folks of other classes. The current mess we’re all in economically wasn’t engineered by Proles, but Suits.

    Its almost like an obscene obsession so many folks “in these parts” as Chic Noir put it-here, Half Sigma, and other sites, have. And it dispels any notions of proles hatin’ on their middle and upper middle class betters, because I can promise you, the last thing the vast majority of proles are thinking about are what middle class and upper middle class folk are thinking about.

    So, why the obsession, especially when you don’t live with or near them, don’t associate with them socially, and don’t marry/sex them? Why?

    Why?

    Comments? Answers?

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  177. Tupac 170,
    Listen man, I don’t know what got into you, but first off, that’s not what I said, I said nothing of the sort, please review comment 156 and please find me the direct quote where I said that MMAs do what you said I said.

    Look TC, I ain’t got no beef w/you at all. We simply agree to disagree, that’s all. OK?

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  178. The working to lower class men tend to smoke a lot, drink a lot, and eat a lot of unhealthy food. They also like to dress in jeans and t-shirt, or some other variant of the blue collar “uniform.”

    A “metrosexual” man in the city is more “refined,” usually does not smoke, drinks wine, and eats food that women would approve of, and very importantly they dress well. Women go nuts for men in suits and expensive clothing. It’s shallow and stupid but true.

    My husband belongs in the former category somewhat. When I met him he had something like three shotguns and loathed to leave them to move north. He also hated “yankees” and “yuppies.” I “reformed” his more unhealthy habits, but he retains his working class identity.

    I think that women, particularly middle and upper class women, tend to be more into health food, yoga, not smoking, etc. because these are all habits doctors recommend — especially for pregnant women. So there is a bit of lifelong health kick that women are on, which men do not have to because they don’t ever get pregnant. That may be one of the reasons why men don’t live as long, too.

    Like


  179. Yes, “honor” has nothing to do with street fights. I get it. Always did.

    Street fights are usually between strangers, often with groups involved. High stakes stuff. Survival is an issue. You do what I said: get him down, finish him fast, then get out of there. I get it guys, I really do.

    There is another kind of fighting, though. It’s recreational fighting. Guy gets pissy in a bar, calls other guy out, clearly escalating to something. No quick ambush moves, direct open confrontation. You must have run into these, with all your experience? Then there are fights within a social group…two guys have maybe gotten a little too deeply into the sauce, maybe a political argument gets out of hand, maybe one guy supports the wrong sports team, maybe one guy’s getting a little too friendly with the other guy’s girl.

    No high stakes. High spirits. Lust for action. Life or death is not an issue. You don’t stomp the guy’s head in with your steeltoes. You don’t stab him. You don’t shoot him in the back. It’s a fight, not a war.

    These kind of fights often build into straightforward knock-em-down brawls. For all the chair-throwing collective mayhem that can ensue from a good recreational bar fight, the basic issue is letting off steam, getting some action going on a boring Friday night, basically kicking over the traces and having some fun.

    This kind of stuff goes on all the time in rural hotels, old style drinking halls, and taverns everywhere. It’s a social pasttime, far more light-hearted than the humorless life-or-death stuff you guys keep going on about here.

    I haven’t lost a street fight, because I haven’t been in one. I’ve seen them, and they’re fucking ugly. They always ended the same way: one guy dropping quickly and then getting kicked nearly to death, and not only by his opponent, but his opponent’s buddies. They’re wars. I get it.

    I’ve been in plenty of recreational fights (I think about twenty or twenty five). They are a traditional way of sorting things out, resolving issues, and they do have limits. It’s a dying tradition, as I pointed out (I get it guys! I get it!). It existed as a fixture of my childhood and youth, and it’s not dead yet. But it’s getting there.

    We live in a world where the whole idea of fighting as a pleasure, as something fun, as something that enhances, not destroys, social cohesion, is alien. But it did exist. It does still exist.

    And if we recover some sense of the masculine virtues, of the desirabilty of thymos, of sheer masculine energy and spirit, it may exist again one day.

    I have a dream!

    Like


  180. 170 Il Chopra: The concensus is that 95% of all streetfights follow the same pattern: a few haymakers get thrown, then it goes to a clinch, then someone trips or gets thrown to the ground (where the fight is finished).

    Agreed. But with a critical difference between street fights and MMA. Once it goes to the ground, it’s over FAST in street fights. No “tormenting” via rasslin’ as PA pointed out happens in MMA. No street fighter can afford to expose his back for that long. When the loser goes down (and the first guy down is ALWAYS the loser in a street fight), he gets stomped and beaten, not wrestled or submitted. Takes only seconds, and the other guy stays on his feet.

    Arm bars and triangles and chokes and ground-and-pound are for the octagon. Boots and weapons all over the head and ribs are for the street.

    Like


  181. And chic, your comment about how black use of swarming tactics dates from the 80s: I can’t confirm the date, but there’s nothing genetic about these tactics. It’s learned behaviour, much more common today. Probably a response to the prevalence of guns. If you’re going to attack somebody who might be carrying, you’ve got to swarm him.

    So I think your basic point holds a lot of water.

    Like


  182. T: You’re 34? Well then, welcome to the downward slope of life! 🙂 Yeah, things do decline from here on in (compensatable for, but you do have to compensate), and Xmas starts coming every six months, then three, and before you know it you’re dead.

    Still younger than I am, though. Bastard. 🙂

    Like


  183. 178 Mu’Min

    WHY IS THERE SO MUCH HATIN’ ON PROLES?

    Mu’Min, this is done by completely ridiculous fools who want the “little people” to know their place and worship them. Since we live in a country without a landed aristocracy, our would-be aristocrats define themselves by wealth and education. I saw a lot of this in college — it’s a hazard of the Ivy League. There is something deep in the heart of a certain kind of person that longs to be worshiped and put on a pedestal. They hate the proles exactly because most proles are completely indifferent to them and will not bow down.

    If you ever have the misfortune of running into someone who describes himself as a member of the “intellectual elite,” you know you’re dealing with this kind of person. Anyone whose identity relies on advertising how much better he is than other people is a fool who’s not worth your time, but if you feel like playing with him, poking holes into his pretensions of vast knowledge is always a good time. I had a lot of fun with people who would pull “quotes” out of their ass and attribute them to Shakespeare or some great philosopher. 🙂

    Like


  184. TC & Ricky Raw, the yuppie boxing workouts that seem to be all the rage nowadays aren’t so bad for conditioning which is a big part of starting out, so for beginners its actually not a bad place to start. Not a great place to start, just not bad. Many of these classes are taught by former pros. A couple of guys I spar with are trainers for these classes. I’ve even helped them teach their classes a few times and you get the same basic instruction on form, heavy bag, and focus mitts. You just never spar. What they’ve done I think is diversify the programs so that you have aerobic boxing programs, without any of the bag work and non-contact boxing. I’d say the aerobic only stuff is definately froo froo.

    Mu: Aikido, Judo, Kendo, etc., have origins in the comprehensive martial training received by Samurai known as Koryu, although the content may not have been consistent throughout all schools training Samurai. They became more or less “distinct” disciplines at around the time of the Meiji restoration in Japan late in the 19th Century.

    Like


  185. Elizabeth, DF, thanks so much for the comments will reply more in detail later.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  186. on October 8, 2008 at 5:13 pm ironrailsironweights

    When the loser goes down (and the first guy down is ALWAYS the loser in a street fight), he gets stomped and beaten, not wrestled or submitted.

    One school of thought says that a jab is the only punch that should ever be used in a street fight. Throwing a jab does not involve a weight shift and therefore does not compromise your balance. By requiring a weight shift, other punch types involve a brief impairment of balance, which makes you vulnerable to a takedown. As noted, getting taken down in a street fight can be a very, very bad thing.

    Like


  187. Mu, I’ve noted the obsession with preoles too. I think it’s funny in a way but also twisted and very sad.

    Like


  188. Patrick K said:T: You’re 34? Well then, welcome to the downward slope of life! Yeah, things do decline from here on in (compensatable for, but you do have to compensate), and Xmas starts coming every six months, then three, and before you know it you’re dead.

    Still younger than I am, though. Bastard

    LOL getting older is scary. You look at your parents and begin to see how much you really look and act like them. You come across teenagers who are only 5-7 years younger than you are and you realize you have no idea what the heck they are talking about. You also admire the babyish look than teenagers have.
    At this age, even if I stay up all night I can take a shower and look fine in 15 minutes or go without a bra. In ten years time, I won’t have wrinkles but I will no longer have my youth. Man, it sucks to get older. I wish I could stop the aging process. I want to be 18-21 forever

    Like


  189. Chic Noir,
    Yea, its as if they (Middle & Upper Middle Classes) don’t get enough attention and focus as it is: EVERYTHING is geared, especially for them. No one talks about the Blue Collar sector or the Working Class, except to heap scorn on them or at best, to give a passing mention. In just about every way, from sit com tv, to national presidential campaign politics, the Middle and Upper Middle Class is constantly catered to.

    Even in this very forum, NOTHING is said about guys like, except to deride and mock them. Its as if Blue Collar guys don’t fuck, or maybe they shouldn’t, to let these folks tell it. I mean, really.

    Oh, and about getting on in years, don’t sweat it. Take care of yourself and you’ll be fine. Don’t be sucked in by all the hyper talk of dried up women at the ripe old age of 35. Some of the sexiest women I ever had were over that age.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  190. DF,
    In many ways, we’re “cousins” in that we study martial arts systems that have a sole ancestor, so to speak. So, what’s up, cuz?

    I’m wondering if you caught the cameo by Rickson Gracie in The Incredible Hulk? Interestingly enough, the credits list him as a, get this now: “Aikido Instructor”. Hmm.;)

    Thanks for the historical explainer. Saved me a lot of mental farts.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  191. 170 Mu’Min:

    Look TC, I ain’t got no beef w/you at all. We simply agree to disagree, that’s all. OK?

    Ahhh man, I was just messing with you, stirring shit up. You know how I do.

    Peace.

    Like


  192. 185 Elizabeth

    Mu’Min, this is done by completely ridiculous fools who want the “little people” to know their place and worship them. Since we live in a country without a landed aristocracy, our would-be aristocrats define themselves by wealth and education. I saw a lot of this in college — it’s a hazard of the Ivy League.

    Can anyone else perceive the butt-naked irony in this comment?

    Like


  193. Welmer,
    This prole cannot. Please explain? Thank you.

    Tupac, LOL, thanks, man. Its cool. You made some strong points over on the Reader Responds thread. Its back a ways but I agree w/it.

    As-Salaam-Aliakum to you too,

    Mu

    Like


  194. Chic, you’re fortunate to be a black woman. Black woman can age very well indeed, far better than white women, who have an unfortunate tendency to dry out and shrivel up. There’s many a black woman of a “certain age” who’s more than capable of kickstarting this white man’s engine.

    Like


  195. I just want to speak to the issue of Black Men Fighting piece real quick.

    Its true that Black men talk trash, some can’t back it up, but don’t make the mistake that none of them can. I’ve personally seen that notion put to bed, where specifically, Brothas have taken on White guys and said White guys were in bad shape.

    Having said that, I think the major reason why one sees gun play and the like is because that’s the carryover from one of the most impactful decades in the while of American History:

    The Crack Wars.

    And let me tell ya, as one who was in NYC quite a bit in the mid to latter 90s, IT WAS ROUGH.

    Checkout some of the movers and shakers of the Crack Game then, throghout the 80s. These guys are far from chumps or trash talkin’ jive turkeys, but stompdown, vicious, killers.

    The reason why guns are so prevalent on the streets today has almost nothing to do w/fear.

    Holla back

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  196. 195 Mu’Min
    Welmer,
    This prole cannot. Please explain? Thank you.

    She takes a holier-than-thou attitude concerning people who look down on “proles,” lamenting how shameful it is that people use education and wealth to place themselves above others, then goes on to advertise her Ivy League credentials.

    She epitomizes SWPL’s “whiter people.” It would be funny if it weren’t so depressingly familiar.

    BTW, Mu, I’d be interested in the Islamic take on this gender struggle. I really am curious about that.

    Like


  197. PatrickH said There’s many a black woman of a “certain age” who’s more than capable of kickstarting this white man’s engine
    Like Angela Basset and Haile?

    @ PatrickH & Mu- You know it’s not only the physical aging that worries me. One of the good things about youth is the innocence that you have. The average 16-18 year old American does not yet understand that the world is such a cold hard and brutal place to live. I guess it’s the reason why movements often start with the young. Young people believe in change and have a tendency to be idealistic.

    Like


  198. Welmer,
    Hmm. I’m not so sure Elizabeth is doing what you accuse her of. Its very possible to belong to an organization and yet be among its loudest critics.

    As for the Islamic view of gender relations, for the most part they are clearly defined. Of course in certain parts of the world the more radical voices hold sway.

    Going back to the original question: what do you think the (upper) middle class focuses so much time on the comings and goings of proles?

    Comments?

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  199. 200 chicnoir

    You know it’s not only the physical aging that worries me. One of the good things about youth is the innocence that you have. The average 16-18 year old American does not yet understand that the world is such a cold hard and brutal place to live.

    We’re opposite here, Chic. I think becoming more realistic and knowledgeable with age is a good thing. I can’t stand youthful, Bambi-eyed idealism. It’s impractical. To get anything worth doing done, you have to understand how the world works. The average 18-year-old idealist’s idea of promoting progress is slapping a lame CO-EXIST bumper sticker on the luxury car that Mommy and Daddy bought him, and parroting his professor’s tirades to all the people who have the misfortune of crossing his path. Most young people can’t be bothered with doing anything really important. Heck, a lot of them can’t even be bothered to vote. The turnout rate among 18-21 year olds is pathetically low. Which I don’t particularly mind, since most of them don’t know anything about the real world, but it does rather indicate that youthful idealism and energy is a myth.

    Like


  200. 200 Mu’Min

    Going back to the original question: what do you think the (upper) middle class focuses so much time on the comings and goings of proles?

    Because deep down they know that they’re the same animals, no matter how much they try to lift themselves above the fray. Read Faulkner for elucidation.

    Hmm. I’m not so sure Elizabeth is doing what you accuse her of. Its very possible to belong to an organization and yet be among its loudest critics.

    Of course she is. Criticizing one’s own privilege to make it appear that one doesn’t have it is the standard whiter people MO.

    As for the Islamic view of gender relations, for the most part they are clearly defined. Of course in certain parts of the world the more radical voices hold sway.

    So how would Roissy’s views be interpreted by a mullah in a moderate Islamic society?

    Like


  201. The turnout rate among 18-21 year olds is pathetically low.
    I’ve been voting since I turned 18. For me, even if I don’t like either of the two candidates I will chose the lesser of two evils. I complain too much not to vote.

    I can imagine that the turn out rate for elderly black people is very high. Whenever I vote, I notice that I am often the youngest person in the building and in line. I usually see a few middle age blk people and the rest of the voters are elderly people. Even the election judges are elderly people. I don’t understand why so many young blks are apathetic when it comes to voting.
    Do you think a European parlimentary type of goverment would be a better deal versus the two party system that we currently have?

    Why do you think so few people are willing to look at the Green and independant party for leaders?

    I bet if McCain or Obama attempts to cut student loans to pay for the economic crisis, young people will become politically active then..

    Which I don’t particularly mind, since most of them don’t know anything about the real world, but it does rather indicate that youthful idealism and energy is a myth.

    Forgive me Elizabeth but I was thinking about the young Obama volunters, Tiamen Square, Civil Rights Movement, and the riots in France from about two years ago.

    Like


  202. but it does rather indicate that youthful idealism and energy is a myth

    I think many American teenagers believe that things will work out in the end. They also don’t believe that horrible things like September 11*, large scale unemployment, Katrina*, Tsunami and the like happen in America.

    Like


  203. Welmer,
    Hmm. I’m not so sure Elizabeth is doing what you accuse her of. Its very possible to belong to an organization and yet be among its loudest critics

    Think Cosby, Thomas Sowell, and Clarence Thomas.

    Like


  204. 201 Elizabeth

    Most young people can’t be bothered with doing anything really important. Heck, a lot of them can’t even be bothered to vote.

    In fairness, there are many situations where voting is an incredibly inefficient use of time… one of my friends estimated his chance of changing the outcome he was interested in (via voting) at 10^-20, which he described as the chance of the Earth getting hit by a major asteroid not once, but twice within the next week. Now, he’s making some sketchy assumptions that invalidate his calculation (like those wonderful models that banks used to price CDOs… but I digress…). And I’ll agree with your main point, that 18-21 year olds are too much about whining and too little about actually getting something done. But I’m a bit reluctant to criticize their low voting turnout; by itself, that can be interpreted as an indication that they have better things to do with their time. (The reverse of this is pretty clearly one of the contributors to the high turnout of seniors.)

    202 Welmer

    Of course she is. Criticizing one’s own privilege to make it appear that one doesn’t have it is the standard whiter people MO.

    If you haven’t seen many of her other comments, I can see how you’d draw this conclusion. But if you take a look at her many realist comments in support of laissez-faire meritocracy, I think you’ll be moved to retract your accusation.

    Like


  205. Having said that, I think the major reason why one sees gun play and the like is because that’s the carryover from one of the most impactful decades in the while of American History:

    The Crack Wars.

    You know this goes with what I said earlier about street fights among blk men decreasing during the 80s. Thank God crack is dying out as the drug of choice in the hood. That drug is powerful. I really wish the people in the midwest would kick Meth. Meth is only second to ciagreets in terms of its addictiveness.

    Like


  206. on October 9, 2008 at 3:02 am ironrailsironweights

    I just want to speak to the issue of Black Men Fighting piece real quick.
    Its true that Black men talk trash, some can’t back it up, but don’t make the mistake that none of them can. I’ve personally seen that notion put to bed, where specifically, Brothas have taken on White guys and said White guys were in bad shape.

    As a high school student in a racially mixed, working class city in the late 1970’s, there were two bits of “conventional wisdom” concerning black kids and fighting:

    1. If a white kid got into a scrap with a black kid and there were other black kids on the scene, the white kid would be safe enough as long as he was winning or holding his own. But if the black kid got the upper hand, the other black kids would join in and stomp the daylights out of the white kid.

    2. Blacks were absolutely terrified of knives – far more scared of them than they were scared of guns.

    I don’t know if these actually were true, but most people believed them to be true.

    Peter

    Like


  207. 203 chicnoir

    I can imagine that the turn out rate for elderly black people is very high.

    Turnout rate for the elderly in general is high. They also tend to be the most knowledgeable voters.

    Do you think a European parlimentary type of goverment would be a better deal versus the two party system that we currently have?

    No. You have the same evils of the party system, just more splintering. I think no political parties at all would be better. Candidates should run on their own platforms and on their own merits. But this is unlikely to happen. The easiest way to kill the party system would be for states to have open primaries in which the top two vote-getters (regardless of party) advanced to the general election. But the two major parties are powerful, well-entrenched, and have a vested interest in keeping election laws from changing. So I don’t foresee much changing any time soon.

    Why do you think so few people are willing to look at the Green and independant party for leaders?

    Because the two major parties are so well-entrenched, most Americans don’t think candidates from these parties can get much done. Even if they get elected (to, say, Congress), they’ll be isolated. It’s rare for independents/third party members to get committee chairmanships, and voters understandably want their representatives to have a meaningful voice, especially in the important committees (like Appropriations). Isolated members of Congress generally don’t get seats on the important committees, let alone a chairmanship, and they don’t have enough allies to get important legislation presented and passed.

    Also, most Americans have the impression that any candidate who can’t make it in one of the two major parties is kooky and extreme. Fair or not, that’s the bias.

    Forgive me Elizabeth but I was thinking about the young Obama volunters, Tiamen Square, Civil Rights Movement, and the riots in France from about two years ago.

    I’m by no means an expert on the Civil Rights Movement, but I was under the impression that one reason it was so successful was because it had widespread appeal — the members came from all segments of society, old and young, rich, middle class, and working class. In other words, it wasn’t seen as a movement of young hotheads and radicals — it was “respectable.”

    The Tiananmen Square protests actually set back liberalization in China; the brutal crackdown scared people away from the student movement and related groups, and the goals of the protests were not achieved. This is a tragic example of young, idealistic people not knowing how the world works. The successful revolutions of the past have been led by older, reluctant revolutionaries — like George Washington — who see revolution as a last resort, not by young people burning with ardor and eager for action.

    The French riots involved a bunch of thugs burning cars and destroying other property; I’d hardly cite them as an honorable example of youthful idealism and achievement.

    The Obama volunteers are members of a subset of young people who take an active interest in politics. I don’t think they’re indicative of college students at large. Most college students are not volunteering for Obama (or McCain, for that matter).

    I’ve voted since I was 18, too, but the fact is, most people in that age group don’t. They’re a lot more interested in partying and hooking up and “living on the wrong side of the day,” as my father would say. 🙂

    Like


  208. chic 199 in manner most fetchingly arch: Like Angela Basset and Haile?

    Why yes, actually. Just like Angela Basset and Halle. In particular like Angela Basset as Mace in Strange Days (1999), where she ended up inexplicably with the lamer white guy played by Rafe Fiennes (not normally a lamer, but the character in SD was sad indeed). Dreads, muscle definition, not normally my cuppa, but on Angela B in SD…yummy.

    Like


  209. 206 DoJ

    If you haven’t seen many of her other comments, I can see how you’d draw this conclusion. But if you take a look at her many realist comments in support of laissez-faire meritocracy, I think you’ll be moved to retract your accusation.

    Probably not. She’s that contemporarily common kind of young woman who shoots off her mouth when she really has no idea what she’s talking about. It’s a breathtaking arrogance and pride that is on display; one that could only ferment in the storm surge of modern American decadence.

    Like


  210. Welmer,
    Whoa! That’s some pretty strong words you lobbed at Elizabeth, man. And I’m not saying that you’re completely offbase, just sayin’.

    But OK, so let’s assuming what you say about her is so. So what? Is her argument valid, or not, an why? Hr original statements are above in the thread. Patiently waiting for a point for point refutation of her premise.

    Thank you, sir.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  211. “Hard” times for hard times? You betcha!!!

    With the tanking of real estate & the stock market, investing in theatrical productions is looking a lot less risky. And even if you can’t get it up…we’ll make ya laugh to keep from cryin’

    “MOIST!” – The sexistential musical comedy celebration of the “seasoned” woman. Opening Off-Broadway, 2009!!!

    Check out the clip –

    Like


  212. @Elizabeth- College Students played a very large role in the Civil Rights movement. Most of those who participated in sit-ins were college students. Young white college students came into the South to teach/help blks with voter registration

    The French riots involved a bunch of thugs burning cars and destroying other property; I’d hardly cite them as an honorable example of youthful idealism and achievement

    The French media spun the idea that the people from suburbs were nothing but a bunch of thugs. Many of the people protesting are poor people who where fustrated with their lot in life because they were not being fully intergrated into French society. When Straoky pushed for reforms, the other half took to the streets to protest.
    I can really see a parallel in to how the Arab North Africans were treated by the media to how the blks in Louisiana during hurricane Katrina were treated in the American

    Most college students are not volunteering for Obama (or McCain, for that matter).

    I’m more concerned with the college students studying the issues and voting for the candidate who will address the issues important to them. Volunteering for a candidate is a good thing but many college students don’t have the time.

    . I’m more concerned with the college students studying the issues and voting for the candidate who will address the issues important to them. Volunteering for a candidate is a good thing but many college students don’t have the time.

    The massacre in Tiananmen Square gave the world in pictures and video how brutal the Chinese government really was/are. So maybe the students’ initial goals were not achieved but they were certainly successful in showing the world how resistant the Chinese government was to democracy.

    Like


  213. chic, tell me, why is it that, say, Chinese immigrants never have these integration troubles? Certain groups can’t stop complaining about how they can’t integrate unless we do more and more for them while the Chinese just move in, integrate and prosper. How come?

    Hell, it’s not even Islam. There are some Muslim groups who have zero trouble fitting in, like Tatars here, and we never did anything to integrate them either. The simple key is whether people *want to* fit in or whether they just want Western money while spitting on Western society.

    I can tell you plenty of anectodes. For example, I know a lot of teachers and people who do side jobs as substitutes. For a lot of Muslims it’s a grave insult for a woman to hold a position of authority over males and a lot of Muslim boys are very much opposed to female teachers. Since women are physically helpless against groups of even teenage males, I’ve heard some rather frightened stories from women who no longer wish to do that work.

    Amusing tales, too. The best one was the one where the boys had started stealing female school workers’ clothes and peeing on them, in an attempt to make the message clear. Even as kids they refuse to integrate.

    Like


  214. @chic, tell me, why is it that, say, Chinese immigrants never have these integration troubles

    Jaakkeli try Portugual

    Like


  215. 212 Mu’Min
    Welmer,
    Whoa! That’s some pretty strong words you lobbed at Elizabeth, man. And I’m not saying that you’re completely offbase, just sayin’.

    But OK, so let’s assuming what you say about her is so. So what? Is her argument valid, or not, an why? Hr original statements are above in the thread. Patiently waiting for a point for point refutation of her premise.

    Give me a little time, Mu.

    I’m a single dad of a two and three-year-old. Hardly have time to think, to be honest.

    Like


  216. Welmer,
    Understood sir. Nuff respect for you stepping up to the plate on the Daddy tip, too.

    By her own admission, Elizabeth is a very privileged person indeed. But I don’t see how that fact invalidates her comments in response to my question; in fact, if anything, your own “mini-reply” where you cite Faulkner, who I will be looking into (where should I look?) into, seems to be in line w/her expressed views.

    But, when time permits I’m sure you will more fully explain your position.

    As for how Master Roissy would be seen in the moderate Islamic world, hmm…well, the Islamic world is a vast place. But if there’s anything to be said for the society’s elite and how they live their lives, my guess is that so long as he’s discreet and doesn’t draw too much attention to himself no one will pay much attention. Of course, he’ll have to come up w/differing ways to meet women, since it’ll be hard to find many bars in the Islamic world, LOL. But if he sticks to places like Abu Dubai in the UAE, Lebanon, maybe Turkey, something like that, he ought to do well.

    In the book My Secret Life, the author speaks of going to Turkey and having quite a time there. So yea, its not impossible to be a player in the Islamic world, you just have to know the lay of the land and how to conduct business in a way that’s a bit more lowkey and so on.

    Interesting question!

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like