Psycho Stalker

Psycho stalker
Qu’est-ce que c’est?
fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa far better
run run run run run run run away
oh oh oh

When you experience the love of many women you are bound to have an unfortunate run-in with a stalker. The formula goes like this:

Number of girls in your lovemaking career + Disparity between your higher value and the girl’s lower value = Odds of wild-eyed stalker ruining your carefully cultivated lifestyle.

Based on my experiences and the stories I hear from friends, you can expect one potential stalker for every 10 women you bed. If you’ve bedded 100 women without incident, the odds of the 101st woman being a stalker are still 10%, but in the bigger picture you are really playing with fire. Your luck will run out. Even worse, if your value is more than 2 points higher than hers, the risk of initiating her stalker module sequence doubles and the degree of psycho behavior intensifies as the market value differential increases.

Example:

1,000 girls banged + 5 point average difference in value = 99.99% chance you had at least one bunny boiling stalker in your life.

Glenn Close’s character was 5 points lower than Michael Douglas’ character, so the result was no surprise to any man who understands how the market works. What were the writers thinking? Glenn Close is a horseface.

To be sure, there are other factors that influence any one girl’s chances of having a psychotic episode on your ass after being dumped. If she came from a broken home, that will boost the odds considerably. Past or present drug addiction is a leading indicator of latent stalker issues. Flakes are especially prone to transmogrifying into crazy stalkers; the airheaded dippiness that annoys the crap out of you when you are trying to get your notch with her is the same mental imbalance that causes her to thrive on the manufactured drama of an emotionally explosive breakup.

Here are some warning signs to watch for:

  • Did she come onto you? Major red flag. Desperate, exceedingly horny girls don’t take kindly to being dumped. If a girl says “I have a bet with my friend that I’m going to take a man home tonight”, and then she publicly assaults your mouth with her tongue, you had better have an extrication plan ready after you’ve banged it out.
  • She’s a different race than you. “Exotic” girls are more likely to freak out on you after a dumping. My guess is that girls who date outside their race are the type of outliers who engage in all sorts of crazy behavior.
  • She’s a former fatty. If you’ve been pumped and dumped your whole life, you’re really not going to like it when you get dumped as a thin girl. She’ll think to herself “I look great now! Why am I still being treated like a one night stand?” On the other hand, many former fatties are so inured to getting dumped that one more doesn’t much faze them.
  • She’s a virgin. Be gentle with these rare birds. They are a dying breed.
  • She’s under 25. The more hardened and cynical a woman is, the less likely she will go insane after a breakup. Young girls are flooded with bonding emotions that older women simply don’t possess anymore.
  • She orgasms easily and vaginally, multiple times. If the girl cums effortlessly during intercourse, your cock will be like a drug to her. Withdrawal is a bitch.
  • She’s making plans for the next date before you’ve finished shooting your load across her back. These are the types of girls who spend more waking hours living in fantasyland than in reality.

What to do if you have a stalker:

  • Number one rule: CUT OFF ALL CONTACT. Ignore her calls, texts, emails, etc. If you see her on the street, walk on by as if you don’t recognize her. The most innocent backsliding on your part will only encourage her to continue stalking. You don’t want to give her even the slimmest shred of hope. In 90% of stalker cases, total radio silence usually does the trick in two to three weeks.
  • Lay down the hammer of hurt. If ignoring her doesn’t work, and she’s stepped up her stalking to sitting on your stoop waiting for you to return from work, you’ll have to get medieval on her. “You dumb fucking psycho cunt, I despise you, I hate you, your pussy is gross, you disgust me beyond words, I want you gone now and if I ever see you near me again I will notify your family and friends what a raving lunatic you are” should put an end to it.
  • But if it doesn’t, you’ll need to escalate to defcunt level 3: Actually DO notify her friends and family. She needs an intervention, and public shaming is your best ally.
  • In case you’re worried she might do something drastic: Threaten to call the cops. Some girls are so fucking crazy they’ll come at you with a weapon, or they’ll enlist the services of some big meathead they know and make up a story about how you hit her in a bar, and you’ll come home one day to this guy hiding in a bush with a bat in hand. If you think she is capable of doing that, you may want to consider calling the cops for real. It sounds kind of pussy-ish to deal with an obsessed girl by slapping a restraining order on her, but it’s more pussy-ish to explain to your future wife that you’re infertile because a girl kicked you in the nads.
  • Trump card: Move out of the country.

I remember this time I banged it out with a chick who, in hindsight, met five of the bullet points I listed above. I made the mistake of replying innocuously to one of her many texts she sent throughout the following week. Two weeks later, on a Saturday night at 1AM, my doorbell buzzed. I jumped because my doorbell sounds like a cow being zapped with 10,000 volts. (If I could locate the wiring, I would disconnect it.) I could hear her outside, shuffling around and mewling for me to come to the door. I turned off the bright hallway light, locked the bolt lock and chain lock on my door, and peeked through the blinds for half a second. Her eyes were spinning. Luckily, I didn’t have a girl with me in my place at that moment, so I didn’t have to worry about explaining the situation. I went back to watching my movie, hoping she would go away. Ten minutes passed. Silence. Phew, she left. Relief.

At 2AM, the doorbell crashed against my eardrums again. Fuck the bitch is back! She must have rung all the doorbells in a spastic panic because my adjacent neighbor answered the door. I overheard their conversation. “Is [moi] in? … I don’t know, you want to check? … Yes, could I? I have these snacks for him.” He let her into the building and she knocked on my door. My heart raced. “I don’t think he’s in … Ok, let me just try once more … Ok, suit yourself, but people are trying to sleep.” Knock knock knock! I turned off the TV, computer, and all the lights and sat in the quiet dark, wondering if I should confront her or call the cops. No worse time to start a battle with a psycho chick than at 2AM. I imagined how a confrontation would go. She would cry and scream and maybe accuse me of rape as my neighbors gathered at their stoops to watch the drama unfold. No, I decided against it. She was unstable enough to cause a major scene, and if I could escape without being identified as “that guy” who has weird stalker chicks coming to his home in the dead of night, I would. So I played possum. I jumped into bed and pulled the blanket up to my chin, dreaming of happier times.

Twenty minutes later (although it felt like a year) she left. I woke up the next morning, bleary-eyed, to a bag of snacks sitting outside my door and a text from her:

i’m so sorry i don’t know what got into me. i’m erasing your number. i’ll never contact you again. best of luck.

I did not reply to that text. I noted with wry irony the “best of luck” face saving maneuver and then proceeded to show her text to all my friends later on. We scornfully laughed in that way guys laugh when we’ve dodged a bullet.

Update

Commenter PA wrote the following:

Half-seriously, how about this as the very last resort against a stalker chick, if leaving the country doesn’t work:

Tell her you are deeply in love with her, send her a new gushy Hallmark card every day, tell her that you see yourselves married, tell her that she’s special, call her at work about how she’s the most beautiful thing that ever walked into your life, and then break into sobs when you tell her that it’s been so long since you were touched when the two of you first made love…. and so on.

If nothing else, that oughta kill the stalker-love, no?

As I wrote in reply, this is the nuclear bomb of counterstalker tactics, and like with all weapons of mass destruction, you run a high risk of catching a lethal dose of fallout. *When* it works, it works perfectly. She will run to the hills. The problem is when it doesn’t work. If you’ve been an alpha for too long, you may have a hard time effectively simulating a lovesick beta. If it backfires, you are stuck with a stalker who is setting up a gift registry with Williams & Sonoma.





Comments


  1. The most chilling words spoken in a movie: “I will not be ignored.”

    — Trump card: Move out of the country.

    Half-seriously, how about this as the very last resort against a stalker chick, if leaving the country doesn’t work:

    Tell her you are deeply in love with her, send her a new gushy Hallmark card every day, tell her that you see yourselves married, tell her that she’s special, call her at work about how she’s the most beautiful thing that ever walked into your life, and then break into sobs when you tell her that it’s been so long since you were touched when the two of you first made love…. and so on.

    If nothing else, that oughta kill the stalke-love, no?

    — they’ll enlist the services of some big meathead

    Good point. Never underestimate the eagerness of a lesser-beta to do a favor for a damsel in distress.

    Dan Savage once published a letter he got from some dumbass who was shagging a married woman. The dweeb wrote that he is planning to kill her “abusive” husband… abusive in the vague sense of “she feels suffocated with him.”

    — Actually DO notify her friends and family.

    Careful with cross-cultural dating… if you shagged a woman who is from a background where you aren’t allowed to out-date, that might put you in more danger. [Incidentally, this is reason #178 why western Europe’s immigration policies are evil and stupid.]

    Like


  2. How were the snacks, dude? Good?

    Like


  3. Given the zero-tolerance policy up here in Ontario, threatening to call the cops herself is the trump card every psycho girl can hold over men. If a woman so much as accuses a man of anything untoward, he’s arrested, cuffed, locked out of his own residence, his name and rep ruined.

    I’m not sure what to do about that kind of threat. Go preemptive? There are guys up here who have to put up with all kinds of abusive psychotic crap from women who hold that Sword of Damoclea over their heads. My brother’s life was destroyed by charges brought against him by his now ex-wife because he pushed her out his study when she refused to leave. Now, his ex-wife was no psycho–she regretted the firestorm of legal trouble she ignited under my brother–but the fact is, a phone call to the cops from a freaked out woman, and you are finished. At least, that’s how it works up here.

    Hope things are different down there in The Show. Up here in The Attic things have broken all the psychotic women’s way. It’s called “feminist jurisprudence” I think. Aka “feminist juripsychoticism”. Nothing prudential about that Orwellian bitch-nightmare.

    Like


  4. sounds like a cow being zapped with 10,000 volts

    When it comes to cow zapping, volts doesn’t count for much. How many amps??

    Like


  5. She’s under 25. The more hardened and cynical a woman is, the less likely she will go insane after a breakup. Young girls are flooded with bonding emotions that older women simply don’t possess anymore.

    Aha. This is surely the first time you or any other PUA blogger has given even the merest hint that younger women aren’t always the best choice.

    Peter

    Like


  6. Some chicks, and probably some guys too, behave in a way that pretty much invites stalking. I had one girlfriend, back in my AFC days, who acted completely psychotic before I broke it off. Lying, cheating, making promises she knew perfectly well she wasn’t going to keep – she basically did everything she could to invite retaliation. I remember going, “What is she THINKING? If I had less of a grip, I’d stalk her and probably violently assault her after the way she’s acted.” Instead, of course, I barred her from my life. I wouldn’t be surprised if she got her next boyfriend to strangle her or something, since I didn’t come through.

    I remembered her a few years later when I read that some transvestites who can “pass” will date men, pretending to be women, even though they know that when their boyfriend finds out they’re men they’ll definitely freak out and might beat the crap out of them.

    Some twisted people apparently want to get into these situations, and they invite them by screwing with the heads of normally sane AFCs. PUAs can see the red flags.

    Like


  7. The best way to avoid this kind of situation is not to let it develop in the first place. That means never promising – and I don’t just mean not in words, but in body language and actions – more than you intend to offer.

    In Fatal Attraction, the Michael Douglas character made the mistake of spending more than one night with his pick-up and behaving like a husband towards her during the time they spent together, going to the park, going dancing, eating meals, etc. If you make these mistakes, chances are the encounter won’t end in death for anyone (that doesn’t really happen very often), but you could have an angry, vindictive woman to worry about.

    Regarding age, the other age group to worry about (aside from the very young), are last-chance women in their late 30s or early 40s, again like the character in Fatal Attraction. With them, it’s especially important not to hint or suggest in any way that you want more than a casual encounter, even if this is part of your standard Game. That is, if you insist on having casual encounters at all…

    p.s. Just to put the (female) cat among the pigeons: Men are more likely than women to turn dangerously psycho towards a female acquaintance on the basis of NO relationship at all, not even a casual one. I’ve had this happen to me; it’s not fun.

    Like


  8. No one deserves a stalker, but I’d say you come as close to it as anyone could.

    Like


  9. I thought this post would be about Sara.

    Like


  10. I mean, you weren’t that promiscuous by accident, and you go around taking advantage of girls with “lower social value,” which is really pretty selfish and mean even if one grants that concept any meaning. It seems like you’re always writing these kinds of “poor me” posts, and you really should just be embarrassed and try to be a better person yourself instead of complaining about how lousy all these women are.

    Like


  11. I mean, you weren’t that promiscuous by accident, and you go around taking advantage of girls with “lower social value,” which is really pretty selfish and mean even if one grants that concept any meaning.

    How is it selfish and mean?

    Like


  12. My observations are in line with yours. The stalker chicks I’ve had the displeasure of dealing with have had three traits in common. The first, they were angry drunks. Second, they would orgasm from vaginal sex easily. Third, they came from broken homes but that’s not so notable given that so many women come from broken homes nowadays. Aside from meeting those common traits I just outlined, the last stalker girl admitted to me she had a crush on me before we even met in the gym but the biggest warning sign was after sex, in the afterglow of her orgasm she would lie next to me whispering into my ear softly, “i hate you, i hate you, i hate you.” I had to switch gyms all together, not just go to another NYC branch. Fortunately, I have a doorman that prevents the crazies from getting to my doorstep.

    Like


  13. Cannon’s Canon–
    “I am not sure what factors of game facilitated that non-reaction: desirability to other women, admiring my grace under pressure (unlikely), or even just a latent empathy for a stalkee. I will always wonder how she would have reacted had I gone (justifiably) to defcunt level 2-3 and flipped out.”
    ————————-

    Or perhaps just contempt for the stalker coupled with a healthy dose of self-esteem. One can hardly feel threatened by anybody that pathetic.

    Like


  14. Aside from meeting those common traits I just outlined, the last stalker girl admitted to me she had a crush on me before we even met in the gym but the biggest warning sign was after sex, in the afterglow of her orgasm she would lie next to me whispering into my ear softly, “i hate you, i hate you, i hate you.”

    Maybe I’m a masochist, but I gotta say that would REALLY turn me on rather than scare me away.

    Like


  15. in the afterglow of her orgasm she would lie next to me whispering into my ear softly, “i hate you, i hate you, i hate you.”

    Dude, that was creepy. I wouldn’t be able to fall asleep with her in the same bed.

    Like


  16. T. AKA Ricky Raw asks:

    “How is it selfish and mean?”

    It’s kind of sad that anyone would need this spelled out for them, but if you perceive a girl as having lower social value than you, it seems generally your intention would be to “pump and dump.” Shocker: Being pumped and dumped does not feel good for girls. Ergo, you are deliberating doing someone you know will cause hurt feelings, for the sake of your own brief fun. Ergo, selfish and mean.

    Like


  17. I bet you have stalker problems because your something of an inconsiderate heel. I’ve had a fair amount of success with women, and if you try not to do things that will probably hurt someone else’s feelings you can cut down the problematic behavior substantially. Like to almost zero. Also I don’t date girls who are below a 7. It’s more trouble than it’s worth.

    Like


  18. Groggie –

    You originally seemed to be talking about how deliberately dating girls of lower social value is mean and selfish. You didn’t mention “pumping and dumping,” which is an altogether different topic. I was under the impression you were saying that targeting girls of lower social value in general was mean and selfish, and not specifically talking about “pumping and dumping.”

    If you’re saying “pumping and dumping” is selfish and mean, that’s fine, but that would be selfish and mean regardless of whether the girl was of lower or higher social value.

    So just to be clear, what is selfish and mean, the pumping and dumping part or the targeting of lower social value chicks in general regardless of whether pumping and dumping is involved?

    Like


  19. Gunner, you are living in a dream world. Trying to be careful of other people’s feelings is like putting up a neon sign saying, “PSYCHOS PLEASE FUCK WITH ME.” Women have no respect for anyone who is considerate of their feelings. They respond to that by doing their best to break your heart. If you’d ever had a date, you’d know that.

    Like


  20. She was of a different race than you. Judging by the apology most likely Asian or Indian. My guess is Indian.

    Like


  21. I don’t think it’s so much about whether the woman is of another race but whether she’s a self-hating member of another race. My personal experience is that women who date interracially but not out of self-hate are pretty normal overall, but women whoseinterracial dating is at least partially motivated by self-hate will be nutcases. I had similar deals with self-hating white and Asian chicks.

    Like


  22. PA says, “Careful with cross-cultural dating… if you shagged a woman who is from a background where you aren’t allowed to out-date, that might put you in more danger.”

    I had the displeasure of experiencing that twice…the guys told me basically that I wasn’t worth having a serious relationship with because I’m not Jewish.

    I wouldn’t have stalked them, but I can say with some certainty that the only reason they are alive is because I don’t think either of them is worth going to jail for.

    If I could get away with it though, they’d have their entrails spelling out “Don’t fuck with Black women,” in their town squares.

    They better hope I never become that wealthy.

    Like


  23. Half-seriously, how about this as the very last resort against a stalker chick, if leaving the country doesn’t work:

    Tell her you are deeply in love with her,

    PA, good catch. this will work, *when* it works. the problem is the high risk of it backfiring. now you’ve got a stalker on your hands who’s telling her family you two are getting married.

    How were the snacks, dude? Good?

    after checking for any holes in the bag where she could have slipped in poison, i would say the snacks were good. better than if i had bought them for myself.

    Like


  24. Thanks for proving our point, Nicole.

    Like


  25. I turned off the bright hallway light, locked the bolt lock and chain lock on my door, and peeked through the blinds for half a second. Her eyes were spinning
    LOLROF

    Like


  26. guy who posts links to gross old ugly women with hairy bushes:
    Aha. This is surely the first time you or any other PUA blogger has given even the merest hint that younger women aren’t always the best choice.

    not quite.
    younger women are always the best choice. the slightly higher odds of getting stalked are worth the 100% better odds of banging a juicier pussy and tighter body.

    Like


  27. i had a stripper that called, texted, then STOPPED BY MY F*CKING PARENT’S HOUSE which I’d mistakenly had her drop me off at while SUPER drunk one night….all in an attempt to get back with me. sad. so very sad….and it comes with the territory of approaching women. play the game long enough, and you’ll roll snake eyes.

    Like


  28. Speaking of stalkers, is this guy a PUA or a wannabe PUA whose really a stalker:

    http://torontoist.com/2008/12/dmitri_the_lovers_pal_pavel_the_lover.php#comments

    Like


  29. “She orgasms easily and vaginally, multiple times. If the girl cums effortlessly during intercourse, your cock will be like a drug to her. Withdrawal is a bitch.”

    Scary accurate. I’ve had problems with two stalkers in my lifetime, and both were unusually orgasmic women who came like popcorn during intercourse.

    Like


  30. “You dumb fucking psycho cunt, I despise you, I hate you, your pussy is gross, you disgust me beyond words, I want you gone now and if I ever see you near me again I will notify your family and friends what a raving lunatic you are

    Three things could happen as a result of saying such heartless things to an unstable woman:

    1. Get knocked the fuck out.
    2. Sliced across the face
    3. Shot the hell up.

    Like


  31. farmlegend
    “She orgasms easily and vaginally, multiple times. If the girl cums effortlessly during intercourse, your cock will be like a drug to her. Withdrawal is a bitch.”

    Scary accurate. I’ve had problems with two stalkers in my lifetime, and both were unusually orgasmic women who came like popcorn during intercourse.

    At times, I am very jealous of women who can release like that.

    Like


  32. on December 22, 2008 at 3:12 pm Cannon's Canon

    In college, I was hanging out with my on-again off-again girlfriend one Saturday afternoon when I was ambushed at my apartment by a full-blown stalker psycho chick. She was with her enabling friend and completely shitfaced at 4pm. I make the mistake of answering my door and she immediately barges in and plops herself down on my couch. It was appalling and embarrassing how she tried to cuddle up next to me while I’m SITTING NEXT TO MY GIRLFRIEND. She quickly starts blubbering about how she was really sorry to put me on the spot, but she felt like she just needed to talk to me, and that she has cancer on her ovaries, which I found out later to be a lie. Astoundingly, I had never even banged this chick, but rather merely made out with her in a dark room at the tail end of a typical drinking binge, to her great delight.

    Anyway, I tried to change venues by explaining that my girlfriend and I were going to the park to toss the football around (!!!). The psycho and her dumpy friend invited themselves along and watched awkwardly until they decided to go eat something unhealthy, probably ice cream or pizza. I remained polite and passive throughout this endless hour of my life, staving off my urges to scream and punch wildly. A few months later, I started banging a different girl in the psycho’s sorority and had the pleasure of addressing the rumor, started by her, that I had banged her in the ass with no condom, thereby catching whatever STD this girl was advertising for pity points that particular month.

    Unbelievably, my girlfriend at the time was not especially phased by this episode (she was not around for the anal rumor). I am not sure what factors of game facilitated that non-reaction: desirability to other women, admiring my grace under pressure (unlikely), or even just a latent empathy for a stalkee. I will always wonder how she would have reacted had I gone (justifiably) to defcunt level 2-3 and flipped out.

    As for his bullet points, the psycho was a fluctuating fatty, under 25 of course, horny to a fault and obviously deep in the realm of fantasyland. I may have been a full 5 points above her on the looks scale, unfortunately.

    Like


  33. JB, I live in the real world. You must have had a sad go of things at one point if you think that women as a general rule will respond to consideration with active attempts to hurt you. That isn’t the case at all. If you’re a wimp, a sycophant, or a supplicant women might find that a turn off. When I was younger I would try and convince women to like me by being a kiss ass. That didn’t work out so well for me I thought I was being a nice guy and that women were only interested in jerks,.

    But really I can be considerate of a woman’s feelings. I don’t cave to unreasonable requests. I don’t apologize when I haven’t done anything wrong. I don’t flatter her in the hopes that she will like me more. I also don’t cheat on women. I don’t lie to them. I don’t insult them or try and hurt their feelings. I don’t try and make them feel insecure. I’m not mean to women because it gives me little pleasure. If I’m not interested in being exclusive with a woman I tell her so and she might get upset but I am not unnecessarily cruel. I don’t start relationships with women who the big attraction is that I would be able to treat them poorly and get away with it.

    Earth is not a dystopia. It’s not like I’ve never been hurt by a woman and it’s not like I’ve never hurt a woman (though I try to hurt women as little as possible). But woman have not hurt me so badly that I have any interest in revenge against their sex. And I’m thankful for that. Frankly I gave your bullshit comment more thoughtfulness than you deserved since it amounted to “you don’t hate women? you must not know them! virgin!”, but seriously if that’s the way you see the world you should see a shrink (unless you’re very very young in which case I hope it’s just a phase). That level of hostile cynicism is much too heavy to carry everywhere.

    Like


  34. Anytime, JB. 🙂

    I’m not the stalker type though. If a guy walks away, it’s best to let him.

    What I’m saying is that, irrational as it may have been, being told that you’re a subhuman monkey by a guy you’ve been seeing for more than a year is a bit much to ask a person to take. It is not a good idea to mess with people’s heads because everyone has limits.

    I’ve had mine pushed, and I’m sure alot of guys out there have had theirs pushed too. All I’m saying is don’t push someone else’s buttons because it might not end well.

    The reason some girls go psycho stalker, and some like me just step back, and watch the guy suffer and die slowly of their own stupdity, is because the former has a problem with the word, “no”.

    Like goes to like, and where for me it takes an unusual circumstance to get hold of someone so far from my own mentality, generally people with an overblown sense of entitlement attract the same. Martyr types become stalkers because they’re just the other side of the delusional coin. One side feels entitled to exploit others, and the other feels entitled to some kind of reward for being exploited.

    In the cases where someone tried to exploit me, I had basically a “crying game shower” phase, and determined to move past it, and learn from it. A woman who can’t do that, can’t because she can’t imagine that someone who she allowed to basically use her, wouldn’t want her. The reality of it doesn’t catch, so they get into an obsessive cycle. It just doesn’t compute to her that maybe, just maybe, the guy has gotten what he wanted, and is done with her.

    I don’t have trouble accepting reality. I just don’t enjoy being stepped on. People who try to should probably expect me to be doing a cost/benefit analysis of harming them.

    Have you ever seen _Dogville_? It’s one of my favorite films.

    Like


  35. Just keep telling yourself that, Gunner. If it makes you feel better. But if you really believe that the way to get people to treat you well is to “be nice” to them, why the hell are you reading PUA blogs?

    Like


  36. JB, there’s a difference between being nice as in civil, and being a pushover. If you walk around with a chip on your shoulder being rude to people, that isn’t a good way of gaining their trust or respect.

    …and what you most certainly will attract is martyrs and among them, the stalker type who won’t let go when you’re mistreating them because you’ve always mistreated them, and they won’t know when you really mean it.

    You don’t have to kiss anyone’s arse. Just treat people with respect until they prove they don’t deserve it is all. It’ll get you much farther than being a crybaby.

    Like


  37. Nicole

    So how did you get over the clingy feeling? Screw a bunch of guys?

    Like


  38. JB I’m not deluding myself. I live this way. I think that PUA for all the borderline sociopathic nonsense has a lot to offer. I used to try and get women by sucking up to them and being really supportive and insinuate myself into their lives. That was the conventional wisdom and also a mistake. I had to internalize the idea that I was choosing women and letting them choose me rather than trying to prove to them that I was a really great guy. I needed to get that dynamic. And it isn’t about nice. Nice is boring. I’m not attracted to women because they are nice. I’m attracted to women because they are beautiful and interesting. In that order. At the same time life is easier and life is better if that beautiful woman is nice. And at the same time it is easier and better for the woman if the man who you are attracted to is kind to you. Finally if you are nice to women in a way that does not compromise your integrity (this means not caving into irrational demands and passing her stupid tests) women will be nicer to you. It is true.

    What’s the sense of having an abundance of women in your life if don’t even like women?

    Like


  39. T. AKA Ricky Raw

    Aside from meeting those common traits I just outlined, the last stalker girl admitted to me she had a crush on me before we even met in the gym but the biggest warning sign was after sex, in the afterglow of her orgasm she would lie next to me whispering into my ear softly, “i hate you, i hate you, i hate you.”

    Maybe I’m a masochist, but I gotta say that would REALLY turn me on rather than scare me away.

    It’s happened to me a couple of times. Seems amusing at first, but they actually mean it, and they will act on it.

    Like


  40. I agree that respect has to be earned but at the same time, I think it’s probably better to be kind to people in the many cases where kindness is easy. For some people it’s not going to be easy, and if so that’s fine, but if you can be kind and it isn’t costly to do so, I think it’s best to do so. Realistically I only do it so that I can think better of myself. I know that and am not kidding myself about it. But that feeling of closeness with other people, and of my own self-righteousness is pleasant. And people are generally good to me which is nice.

    Like


  41. from T. AKA Ricky Raw:

    “You originally seemed to be talking about how deliberately dating girls of lower social value is mean and selfish. You didn’t mention “pumping and dumping,” which is an altogether different topic. I was under the impression you were saying that targeting girls of lower social value in general was mean and selfish, and not specifically talking about “pumping and dumping.”

    If you’re saying “pumping and dumping” is selfish and mean, that’s fine, but that would be selfish and mean regardless of whether the girl was of lower or higher social value.

    So just to be clear, what is selfish and mean, the pumping and dumping part or the targeting of lower social value chicks in general regardless of whether pumping and dumping is involved?”

    Hi Ricky, well, to clarify then, I am saying I think deliberate pumping and dumping is selfish and mean, and that in the case of a girl you see as having lower social value, it appears to be a given that pumping and dumping is the intention.

    In general, targeting lower social value girls also often means preying on those who are relatively more vulnerable and needy, which strikes me as mean – like hitting (on) a person who is already down. The balance of power is on the “higher value” person’s side and they abuse their power, and not even for any greater good, just for a second or two of poon. To tell you the truth it strikes me as sad.

    BTW – Gunner seems to have a lot of sensible things to say. Kudos!

    Like


  42. Nicole

    Well said.

    Like


  43. Nicole The reason for this is that I learned at a very young age that some men use sex as a weapon

    A weapon many can’t handle,clean and/or use properly.

    Like


  44. did you eat the snacks??

    Like


  45. Chic Noir:

    I’m the last person who’d propound the theory of some human beings having intrinsically higher value than others, I’m talking about *perceived* social value here, i.e. some guy thinks a girl is lower level than him and then goes after her as an easy lay – I’m not saying she *is* lower value.

    Although, the idea of *social* value seems to be different than the idea of *intrinsic* value, with social value meaning something that you could measure objectively with a social-science type survey (like the social science research that finds people are more attracted to those with symmetrical facial features). But I’m afraid that here in PUA-world there is a tendency to mix up those two types of value – i.e. to act as though a girl has no intrinsic value as a human being if she doesn’t conform to an ideal of social value that is largely defined by looks. And that tendency to mix up value judgments is something that definitely is a huge turn-off.

    Does that make sense?

    Like


  46. Gunner-

    By the way, you don’t have to be so shy about being principled. There is nothing wrong with being kind to people on principle, and not just because it will get you somewhere. Having principles is not the same thing as being the nice guy who never gets laid. To the contrary, it means you are man enough to take a stand.

    Like


  47. I’m not shy about decency. I’m also not a mystic. I think the best reason to be kind is that it makes your life better. I don’t believe in karma. I don’t believe in a romanticized view of humans. Of the people who are happiest they are the people that are the kindest. Maybe they are just pretending. Maybe the pretending makes it so. I don’t think one happiness is purer than the other, but I do think that some happinesses are better than others. Sleeping late is a smaller pleasure than good eggs bennedict is a smaller pleasure than beautiful girl. And somewhere in there between the eggs and the girl is a feeling of superiority to others on some kind of transcendental level. And the feeling lasts longer than the girl or the eggs. And the feeling doesn’t drive away the other good things in life.

    Like


  48. Gunner – fair enough – but I also don’t think being principled requires mysticism. Just a judgment about how one ought to act. You don’t have to believe in God to believe in right and wrong and moral obligation. Just because those things are abstract doesn’t mean they are necessarily mysterious or imaginary.

    Like


  49. Check out 1993’s “The Crush”, Alicia Silverstone’s first effort as a teenager, for further details.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106627/

    Like


  50. a few dozen eggs thrown at his house, a punch in the face and a marzipan thrown at an oncoming streetcar is a testimony of endless love. not stalking.

    Like


  51. cow:
    Just treat people with respect until they prove they don’t deserve it is all.

    wrong. respect must be earned.
    it’s best to treat people with polite indifference until you’ve decided they are worth more of your good will.

    Like


  52. Groggie & Gunner
    Where are the two of you located? One of the reasons I spend so much time online is becuse men like the two of you as well as Chris are so hard to come by.

    Like


  53. Weeeell, I’m actally a girl … which explains why guys like me are hard to come by … 🙂

    Like


  54. Opps
    sorry Groggie
    🙂

    Like


  55. Tupac and T have called me a lesbian in the past so
    *hunches shoulders*

    Like


  56. i used to get very stalker-y in my 20s but the factor that turned a one night stand into a stalker session was how much the guy in question held out the promise there would be more.

    one guy i “stalked” spent the night with me and then called out of work and took me to the freakin’ zoo and made out with me and laughed with me all day.

    needless to say, i went home with stars in my eyes and a promise of phone calls to come.

    the sense of injustice that follows being blown off after an experience like that is what caused the stalking, why? how could he do that? what happened?

    if you don’t want to be stalked, don’t do ANYTHING to indicate its anything more thana casual fling, in GIRL language, no tin boy language

    Like


  57. uh… “not in boy language”

    typo

    Like


  58. For those who like dark beauty, check this lady out.
    <a http://nizzagirl.canalblog.com/
    very pretty

    Like


  59. Realist, I have never been clingy. The reason for this is that I learned at a very young age that some men use sex as a weapon (as do some women). I don’t want to be involved with someone like that, and I don’t personally feel used or victimized by consensual sex or my romantic hopes for someone being dashed.

    So if the other person feels they have used, exploited, or victimized me, I view them as either too stupid or crazy to continue caring for, and do whatever it takes to rectify that situation with as much speed as I can muster. It only took a couple of times to get the process streamlined.

    The technique is simple: XXX does not give a damn about me. I should therefore not give a damn about them.

    The process starts during the dating phase though. If someone hasn’t earned exclusivity from me, they don’t have it. So I haven’t been sitting around waiting for them anyway. Even if I’m not seeing other people, I don’t consider someone a real boyfriend until they’ve at least spoken to my parents.

    This works for men too. Never let a woman get your head so twisted up that she can convince you to give her girlfriend privileges or priority without girlfriend work.

    CH, respect itself may be earned, but it’s still a good idea to treat people with respect as a measure of good faith. Pooping where you eat is a bad idea.

    Like


  60. welmer and T in the afterglow of her orgasm she would lie next to me whispering into my ear softly, “i hate you, i hate you, i hate you.”

    Maybe I’m a masochist, but I gotta say that would REALLY turn me on rather than scare me away.

    It’s happened to me a couple of times. Seems amusing at first, but they actually mean it, and they will act on it
    Please give me more info? What was she saying exactly?

    it’s best to treat people with polite indifference until you’ve decided they are worth more of your good will
    Some people would say polite indifference is the basic level of respect which all human beings deserve.

    targeting lower social value girls also often means preying on those who are relatively more vulnerable and needy
    cosign
    SMH,
    Human beings and our need to look down on other people. Who the hell are any of us to assign social value on another human being.

    Like


  61. Chic,

    You *are* quite a hottie but alas, I am married! 😉

    Like


  62. In general, targeting lower social value girls also often means preying on those who are relatively more vulnerable and needy, which strikes me as mean – like hitting (on) a person who is already down.

    It’s not needy, it’s smart and good.

    Lower social value is not necessarily the same as low self-esteem. I think you are conflating the two concepts. In general I think it’s a smart strategy as a guy to target a woman of lower social value. Women in general love aiming for a man of higher social value than themselves. Aiming for a woman of exactly your social value or of higher social value often causes lots of tension and testing. A lot of women simply don’t fully enjoy a relationship where the guy is equal or lower to them in value. The risk always remains that she will eventually trade up to a bigger and better catch. Since women seem happiest when they catch a guy of higher social value/status to them, the best tactic as a man would be target a woman of lower social status than himself and everyone involved will be happier for it. The guy gets a woman who is less likely to trade up or shit-test him than a girl of equal or higher status would. And the girl gets a guy of a higher status than her, which is something most women want.

    Like


  63. Dana, I don’t get that at all. In my 20’s I was more “next bitch” about it than I am now. I’ve actually softenned up a bit in my 30’s.

    What did it was that I didn’t check my voice mail, so I didn’t know that a guy was calling me, and I didn’t call him because I never got the explicit go-ahead to do so. So when I got an SMS from him telling be he was going back to Scotland, I replied, “Goodbye, bitch.”

    Later, I was told by one of his friends that he was very hurt by that…but I still have trouble caring since for all intents and purposes, he wasn’t my boyfriend, and wasn’t in the running to be. He seemed to want to make things feel “real”, but it wasn’t real, so I was not taking him seriously. Then when (I thought) he stopped calling, that was just confirmation that he was just a bitch. A guy who stays at the safe distance level can’t really expect me to care all that much about his feelings.

    So I don’t get how having fun together amounts to a possibility of more to come. Maybe that’s because my dad explained all this to me in late elementary school…that just because a guy gives you a flower doesn’t mean he really likes you, and that you have to be really careful about the ones who want to kiss you in detention, but won’t hold your hand in the hallway.

    That’s just like…basic. Some guys do or say whatever it takes to get laid, which is normal…but some really sick ones want you to love them so they can hurt you with it.

    (My brother got the same speech about girls.)

    Like


  64. T, that works out well maybe if all both of them want is a one nighter. If the girl wants more than that and the guy doesn’t though, there’s a problem if the guy lies about wanting more when he has no intention of having a serious relationship with a social inferior.

    In the U.S. lower social status/value means less money. In other places, it often means a different ethnicity…like a Romanian guy going after a Gypsy woman because he thinks she’ll be an easier lay, and when he’s done with her he can just put her away, and she can’t do anything about it.

    When you guys say stuff like that, you have to remember that sometimes the stakes are a little higher than your parents blushing or something. Here in Israel, stuff like this has gotten people stabbed.

    I have a Christian Arab friend who was stabbed by his Muslim ex girlfriend’s brother because the brother suspected him of just using her.

    Like


  65. 1987 Michael Douglas is five points higher than 1987 Glenn Close? I’d give Glenn Close a five and Michael Douglas an eight.

    I’m guessing the producers wanted the disparity to be just large enough that Douglas would clearly be seen as having higher value, but not so large that Hollywood would be forced to cast a fugly, which would hurt box office receipts.

    Like


  66. T, that works out well maybe if all both of them want is a one nighter.

    Or if both of them want more.

    If the girl wants more than that and the guy doesn’t though, there’s a problem if the guy lies about wanting more when he has no intention of having a serious relationship with a social inferior.

    Well, if one person wants a relationship and the other one doesn’t yet lies about it to get sex, then there’s a problem no matter what their respective social statuses are. But that problem stems from the lying, not from their social statuses.

    Like


  67. Hey Ricky Raw,

    OK, but then it sounds like you’re talking here about targeting for a relationship rather than targeting for pump and dump. So that’s all good. Target away as far as I’m concerned then … 🙂

    I think you’re right that women tend to want to be with a guy who is a bump up or two from where they are in a number of ways (IQ & career come to mind). Personally I am cursed with giant brains and an argumentative streak and in all seriousness I always wanted to find a guy who could actually win arguments with me. In the end it worked out that my husband is very geniusy, but in a totally different area than where my brains are located (science for him, languages for me), so it was all good, we both got to feel smart and never felt like we had to compete with each other. Sadly we don’t argue and so I never get to lose. It would be very arousing to lose an argument for once …

    Like


  68. T, don’t be naive. It’s a very different thing when someone comes from a culture wherein they generally believe they’re entitled to use your mothers and sisters as masturbatory tools, than if they have a tryst with someone of their own class or caste.

    If it ever happened to one of your relatives, we’ll see if it’s more important to you that they lied or that they think your sister is no better than a donkey and that they don’t even deserve a tear shed at their death. That’s a dangerous mentality to have, and leads to all sorts of madness aside of a girl getting disappointed.

    Like


  69. But if it were a situation where I was going to get picked up on in a kind of party-atmosphere fling setting (as I recall from my single days) I would avoid a so-called “higher value” guy like the plague, ’cause I would figure: He’s clearly not after me for my social value (beauty), and he doesn’t know me well enough to care about me as a person, so he’s got to be just after poon (and I was almost always about more than poon).

    Like


  70. Groggie
    Chic,

    You *are* quite a hottie but alas, I am married!

    my loss 😦

    Like


  71. Groggie, for that you have to be aware that the others actually see themselves as superior.

    Nowadays, people hide that sort of thing until it’s too late because they don’t want to appear to be racist. It seldom comes up outside of family conversations, and definitely not around the perceived outsiders.

    Since some do successfully bridge the divide, if a guy seems nice enough, he could lead her to believe that he’s one of the exceptions…until it’s time to get serious.

    Like


  72. You forgot “Russian” as a warning sign to watch for. It’s a cofactor with #6, but history teaches us that invading the Soviet motherland can be dangerous.

    Like


  73. If it ever happened to one of your relatives, we’ll see if it’s more important to you that they lied or that they think your sister is no better than a donkey and that they don’t even deserve a tear shed at their death.

    But he told her the truth beforehand, she could choose not to have sex with him based on his totally poor opinion of her and never end up wasting her time. If he lied beforehand, then pumps and dumps her, she gets her hopes up, then gets them dashed, and ends up feeling like a whore anyway. So whether he lies or not, she’ll feel cheap and low. But at least if he tells her the truth about his intentions beforehand, she doesn’t have to sleep with him and get pumped and dump in the process. I would think any chick, if having to choose between either being told the truth up front and feeling like crap versus being lied to about a relationship , getting pumped and dumped and feeling like crap would prefer the former. Both suck but its the lesser of two evils.

    Also, as far as your lying example goes, my point was that having a man lie to you about his intentions only to pump and dump you sucks no matter what the relative social statuses of the man and woman are. They are two separate issues. It’s not as if it women feel better about being lied to and then getting pumped and dumped when it happens with a guy of equal or lower social status.

    Like


  74. on December 22, 2008 at 9:39 pm eternalingenue

    The only time I ever had stalkerish tendencies was when I fell madly in love with one of my professors and followed him around campus for a while. I was actually a virgin at the time, so the dreamy obsession preceded the vaginal orgasms. In actual sexual relationships I’ve worked very hard to keep a cool head. The stereotype about chicks who orgasm vaginally with great ease has truth in it, at least among inexperienced young girls and women who for whatever reasons don’t have their heads on straight.

    Like


  75. Glenn Close aside men kill intimate partners at a much higher rate than the reverse.

    Like


  76. I wonder if just being honest ever crossed your mind.

    Like


  77. hello
    Glenn Close aside men kill intimate partners at a much higher rate than the reverse.
    and receive lighter sentences too.

    Like


  78. “Flakes are especially prone to transmogrifying into crazy stalkers

    This so not true. I fit most of this description and I am not a stalker”

    You fail at knowing what “prone to” means.

    Seriously, are the brain cells that are responsible for understanding that one exception does not disprove a generality located in the testicles? It seems like there are no women who are capable of disagreeing with a generality without slipping into this.

    Now, for my entertainment, cue up women who say that “I don’t do that, therefore you are wrong”.

    That’s meta funny.

    Like


  79. Does anyone here laugh at themselves besides me?

    No you’re not alone. Most of us laugh at you too.

    Like


  80. What?! Roissy the PUA, watching movies by himself on a Saturday night at 1AM?! What is the world coming to?
    [email protected] Dawson.

    Thank God he didn’t eat those snacks. Who knows what that young woman may have done to them. Vizine(tp) anyone

    Like


  81. PA said I have little respect for cheaters. It can’t be that hard to resist the temptation, go home, and jerk off
    Besides your lack of empathy at times, I’m starting to see a very good person deep down inside of you

    Like


  82. I’ll admit that I’m a former stalker. Sometimes, that desire to know everything and always be with that person can overwhelm somebody, especially if one has low self-esteem. I’ll admit to taking diversionary trips to either ride the train or drive near their homes when I had no reason to be in their respective areas.

    It’s not needy, it’s smart and good.

    My option has the value of Lehman Brothers stock, but I’ve always found the issue of whether to date above or below one’s social rank to be an interesting dillemma. Dating upward can give a status whore an ego boost, but in the long-run, one begins to question if she’ll cheat with somebody of her equal rank. Dating downward in contrast can remind one of one’s inability to find a woman of equal or greater rank, and that can lead one to suffer from being embarrassed.

    As an example, I revered Wellesley Queen because she was better than me, but I always feared that she would replace me with better (and whiter) friends. In contrast, I’m afraid of bringing a girl like”non-date girlfriend” home because my family will chastise her for her prole mannerisms. Plus, I really don’t want to fulfill the stereotype of the black guy who dates the white trash that white men don’t want.

    So the question is if one feels that personal happiness out values deferring to one’s desire for higher status or appeal to family and society.

    Like


  83. Besides your lack of empathy at times

    He’s Eastern European. They’re not like the rest of us. 🙂

    Like


  84. Sadly we don’t argue and so I never get to lose. It would be very arousing to lose an argument for once …

    Interesting. In a that-sounds-an-awful-lot-like-me way. 🙂

    Does your husband know about this? In my case, there’s a fairly wide range of subjects which I’m happy to learn a lot more about and discuss if I have a partner who wants that. (Sadly, I’m having lots of trouble finding an available girl who’s into that.) Perhaps he’d be similarly inclined if he knew?

    Like


  85. Plus, I really don’t want to fulfill the stereotype of the black guy who dates the white trash that white men don’t want.

    At some point, you need to stop giving a damn about “fulfilling stereotypes” and just do what ultimately works best for you. If that really is porn and “non-date girlfriends,” more power to you, but your mention of this concern makes me suspect otherwise.

    Like


  86. Nicole,

    Nothing naive in my analysis. You’re refuting a point I never made. I never touched the scenario of courtship where one ethnicity feels entitled to use another ethnicity as masturbatory tools. I don’t think anyone in this discussion was discussing such a scenario, from his first post to Groggie’s subsequent responses to my responses to Groggie. We were talking about the run of the mill social status differences you normally come across dating in America, and that’s the context of what I was talking about.

    Like


  87. Flakes are especially prone to transmogrifying into crazy stalkers; the airheaded dippiness that annoys the crap out of you when you are trying to get your notch with her is the same mental imbalance that causes her to thrive on the manufactured drama of an emotionally explosive breakup.

    This so not true. I fit most of this description and I am not a stalker, though I am nosey as hell and as you know have used pictures of my ex with his 2nd rate girlfriends as intense body language learning material. And yes, I have harassed him with a few too many emails and phone calls, but stopped the phone calls when he pointed out it was interfering with his business calls. Also emails are easily blocked. Only a masochist would have read them. In other words he was asking for it. Now he’s pissed because I am not “stalking” him or giving him any attention whatsoever.

    Good luck. Your time is running out.

    Like


  88. Ha, that’s exactly like my first girlfriend way back in 6th grade. Amazingly I did everything right — ignoring, then breaking her heart over the phone. She asked me if I loved her, and I coldly and nonchalantly told her “no,” etc.

    Ah, simpler times.

    Like


  89. Steve Johnson

    You fail at knowing what “prone to” means.

    Not really Steve. I just don’t take anything he says with any seriousness, and I was playing into his (valid) opinion that I am a flake. Does anyone here laugh at themselves besides me?

    Like


  90. Oh, and doesn’t the song go “psycho killer”??

    Like


  91. I think the best thing to do in that situation is tap your inner beta. We all know it’s easy.

    Step 1: invite her to a Star Trek Convention, or comic book convention, and go wild. Quote your favorite Star Trek episodes, argue why Kirk vs. Picard vs. Cisco vs. Janeway vs. Bakula is important, Data vs. Spock, and talk about the whole Spider-Man clone saga. Make sure you point out “Worst.Episode.Ever” or what have you about certain comic books or movies etc.

    Step 2: Say you’ve lost your job or had to take a pay cut, and ask to borrow some money. Or ask her to pay for a meal/date.

    Step 3: Dress like a slob. Wear really geeky clothes.

    Step 4: Invite her over for a “romantic” evening where you watch the Box Set of “Beavis and Butthead.” Make sure to imitate both voices. [Women HATE Beavis and Butthead, so this alone is probably going to get her out of your life.]

    Step 5: Get a picture of a really fat chick, and show it to her mentioning it’s your ex. This is the reverse of George on “Seinfeld” with the picture of “Man-hands.” You’re demonstrating that you are desperate and a loser, “reverse validation.”

    Step 6: Another “romantic” date watching WWE, make sure you can quote the wrestler’s signature tag lines, etc. Bonus if you can talk about the storylines.

    Step 7: Borrow a friend’s really BAD car, and stash yours for a week somewhere. Make sure you get one with lots of rust, and something from Detroit that is particularly gutless is a bonus. Think: K-car, Ford Pinto, etc.

    The only danger of this method is that it is too easy, and most men will have too much danger of living like this all the time. Particularly in dealing with women, most guys default into being themselves, as opposed to the uber-confident “Alpha” that women crave.

    I think Step 3 is really all that is required.

    Like


  92. “I’ve had problems with two stalkers in my lifetime, and both were unusually orgasmic women who came like popcorn during intercourse.”

    “The stereotype about chicks who orgasm vaginally with great ease has truth in it,

    I doubt the theory that women who orgasm easily are also the type of women who become stalkers. It probably just the opposite; women who DON’T usually orgasm easily but then find the magical alpha man who can make them cum on command. That’s why they get hooked like heroin addicts.

    If all cocks were heroin, there would be no incentive to lose all sanity and dignity pursuing a specific one.

    Like


  93. chic:

    and receive lighter sentences too.

    this can’t possibly be true.
    link?
    source?

    if you let
    A = the number of men i know who got into the Game because they had been having a hard time getting laid;
    B = the number of men i know who got into the Game because the chicks they had attracted without Game had been mental, even though they had had NO trouble getting laid;
    then A is actually less than B.

    two of my friends are much more active in the pickup scene than the rest.

    one of them goes sarging with a MetroPCS phone (which you can pay for in cash, under any name and address you feel like writing on the paperwork) and a fake ID with a different name on them, and NEVER brings chicks back to his place. he gets hotel rooms in the club/bar districts, usually claiming he’s from out of town.
    he has never had a problem with stalkers.

    the other has fallen victim to the scene described by PatrickH on more than one occasion. i once actually had to go bail him out of jail when he was accused by his pseudo girlfriend of “domestic violence” (he hadn’t hit her at all) and was actually stupid enough to drive back to her apartment and talk to the cops when they called him (from her cell phone) and said they “just wanted to talk”.

    PatrickH, it’s just as bad here, if not worse.
    at least it’s not as bad as in the UK, where they’re on their way to giving women carte blanche to kill their husbands because of “words or conduct”.
    will the last normal people out of the UK please turn off the lights on your way out. thx.

    Like


  94. I had myself a pretty little stalker once too. I met her in the mall and we chatted it up, while she was working in the trendy shoe-store. She told me how she needed money for books and school was expensive and all that. Great, another college hottie in my life and she even has a job.

    All was well until late that night when she rang JunkyFungus’ cell at 2:30 a.m. Thinking, booty and so soon in our relationship I answered the call. What’s that, you want me to bend you over and bang you in the A**. Well I don’t know, I’m going to have to think about this. Tell you what, but me a six-pack and some chips and we can talk about it. I’ll meet you at your house.

    Huh? I should park down the street and call you and you’ll meet me on the corner. Um, like WTF! Your dad is home!? WTF, I am going to be hanging up now. Most women I date don’t live with dad, why wouldn’t I hang up? You live with dad because you’re what? Did I just hear you say 17? Click!

    I got calls and texts every day for three weeks. Voicemails got worse and worse. It was Alicia Silverstone in Crush coming for my balls with a pair of industrial pliers, all the while, humming something Disney. Shit didn’t stop and I thought I would have to change my number. I was like a crack head looking out my blinds, sure the cops were showing up.

    The headlines:
    Pervert corrupts innocent tender young teen.
    Sicko of Memphis is a PUA.
    PUA’s are corrupting our bible studying daughters.
    Man encourages little girl to quit school and become his sex slave.

    I don’t know what it was, or how it happened, but the calls stopped and I never heard from her again.

    Like


  95. I had a guy stalk me once. Not only is he my fab story of the worst first date of all time (two car accidents and a bowler hat), he proceeded to call incessantly and make growling noises. Thought he was a lion or something.

    After cutting off all contact I heard something slipped through the mail slot in my front door one night (thank God I had roommates at the time). Dude took a tarot card of a warrior princess – with an image of a woman holding some poor beta down with her foot about to stab him with a sword – and ripped it to pieces. Put them in an envelope and put it through the slot.

    Hell, I’d take snacks over that any day. That was some messed up [email protected]

    Like


  96. J5,
    Good pointers, man. I’ve considered such a move myself now that I’m gearing up to go into Sarge Phase. Now that I’ve seen someone else mention the same thing, especially given the topic, I think I’ll do just that and grab up a “throwaway” cellie.

    Good lookin’.

    Salaam
    The Obsidian

    Like


  97. T-Raw makes an excellent point above wrt lower vs higher social value and dating/mating. Its a truism that may not be pretty, but is, true.

    But I do think that the way in which we define it now, in the postmodern, post feminist world, may have to undergo some tweaks.

    For example, most of the Women I’ve had either had more education formally than me, and/or outearned me, yet I was always seen as having higher social value. After giving this a good bit of thought I think this is because of a few things:

    I’m a Black Man who actually is curious about the world. That means I read a lot. That one fact alone seperates me from the bulk and mass of Black Men, *including those who have college degrees*. Ask any Sista.

    Other things about me flow from the above, that makes me a lot different from my Brothers, and in many ways, gives my White Brothers a run for their money, which explains why I was able to score quite a few White gals. And not “trailer trash” as Dave Alex suggested either.

    I think the idea of higher social value being predicated on earning power is fast becoming obsolete, simply because not only are Women firmly self-supporting in our time now, but more and more of them are going on to college, while fewer males of any color in the USA are. So the dynamic doesn’t go away; it simply shifts focus to other things that Players understand very, very well. Having a fat bank account might be good bait (and all Players know all too well that Wallet Game is the weakest of them all), but it can’t get the job done in the bedroom, nor can it romance the girl. Which explains why so many Players game the richest guys’ gals.

    I’ve always prided myself on “punching above my weight” so to speak. My thing is, that who I am and where I am, I’m unique enough to pull it off. So far, so good. And, as we all now know for a fact, Women not only love Shiny Shit, but they *really* like it if its a one of a kind type of Shiny Shit.

    Anyway, yea, what T’s saying here is on point, and at some point I’m hoping that the powers that be re-align our Societal thinking along these lines. I’m all for Romantic Love, I think it’s a big part of what it means to be Human; but we need to do that while keeping our feet on Terra Firma, too.

    Again, great post, as always, T.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  98. Chic Noir
    welmer and T in the afterglow of her orgasm she would lie next to me whispering into my ear softly, “i hate you, i hate you, i hate you.”

    Maybe I’m a masochist, but I gotta say that would REALLY turn me on rather than scare me away.

    It’s happened to me a couple of times. Seems amusing at first, but they actually mean it, and they will act on it
    Please give me more info? What was she saying exactly?

    She (they, actually — happened with more than one) was saying “I hate you.” This after coming to my place and knocking on the window in the middle of the night in one instance.

    Another one drew a picture of me as satan. I didn’t quite get where that came from.

    And these were the ones who weren’t clinically insane (never, ever mix it up with a girl who is mentally ill — she’ll drag you down to hell with her).

    Like


  99. welmer, by far the best sex i’ve ever had was with women who loved to scream how much they hate me.
    in fact, i get completely bored with sex, even with hb8-9’s**, after only a session or two if it lacks utter male domination/feminine submission, coupled with feisty “resistance”.
    roissy is right about girls’ wanting to be choked, by the way. in fact, i’ve found that MOST women are amenable to “light spanking” – on the tits and face, not just the ass. MOST of them.
    delightful.
    on the other hand, i must admit that i often turn back into clark kent after these fuck sessions, letting out my inner softy. there’s nothing quite like bringing a cold glass of champagne to a hottie whose ass is freshly red and blue, whose makeup is smeared beyond recognition, and whose face is wrecked with deepthroat spit (my favorite way to prepare just before letting ‘er rip), followed by a loving backrub.

    i had a girlfriend (a real girlfriend! gasp) who loved play rapes. her pussy would cream instantly when i threw her down and shoved her legs apart, and she would moan “noooo….” in the most alluring way a man could possibly imagine throughout what could, in an amusing misnomer, be labeled “foreplay”.
    she would cum twice as hard if i slapped her across the face just as her orgasm started.
    she would leave distracting messages on my voicemail while i was at work, telling me how i should come home and make her cry.
    the kicker?
    TOTALLY … NORMAL … chill … low-drama … chick.
    i didn’t even discover this side to her until several months into the relationship, when she became instantly and unexpectedly turned on at some stories of my previous, um, dalliances.

    we eventually broke up for all sorts of other reasons, most notably a grossly complete incompatibility in every non-sexual facet of our lives, but damned if i don’t think about her on the regular, even while fucking chicks that are her betters on the HB scale.

    my best friend of 15 years swears up and down that this woman will eventually bear my children.

    ** i don’t believe in the existence of 10’s, although there are 8-9’s who clean up really nicely.

    Like


  100. Excellent topic, R.

    From the Archives…

    Back in the early 2000s, Mu happened to meet “D” through a mutual friend. 5’3″, brown-skinned, cute as a Button. Didn’t take long to knock the boots, and, as he has indicated above, was hugely orgasmic. I nicknamed her the Super Soaker; her Gspot was on fire.

    After one particularly ahem, juicy session where Mu made good use of the corner of her bed and was sprayed in the face by the Super Soaker, D revealed to me that she was treated badly by her daddy and that she’d had trouble with men from then on. It explained why she had two kids by two different baby daddies, etc. I didn’t think nothin’ much of it at the time; afterall, such things are common in the Hood, and as R pointed out, I had never run accross any “Fatal Attraction” chicks (and that’s what we call em in the Hood, too btw).

    That was about to change.

    Out of nowhere in the days and weeks that followed she started going apeshit on Mu. Always calling at the gig. Or my cellie. Always asking who I was seeing on the side, which was no one at the time. Finally, I decided I had had enough and rolled out.

    That’s when the calls really went off the deepend.

    She started leaving the kinds of messages he described, all kinds of crazy ish, man. I ain’t even gonna front, I was scared, because I knew all too well the deal-she could say she was raped and it was Curtains for the Mu.

    I turned my cellie off, told the fellas at the gig that if D called I no longer worked there, and if she came on the premises NOT to engage her in anyway; simply call the Police.

    Then I waited. A day. Three days. A week. Two weeks.

    Finally. It was over.

    It was a costly lesson for Mu in more ways than one. Just to get away from her, I left an entire wardrobe of gear at her place, about two stacks’ worth. Really nice stuff too. But it was worth it.

    Eversince Mu has been *ultra careful* about whom he plays with. So far, so good.

    But I’ll be copying R’s post 2 the hard drive for periodic review. Just in case.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  101. oh, and, mu/obsidian (and anyone else to whom this stuff is germane):
    yes.
    get the metropcs phone.

    when you get it, since you can write down an address literally anywhere you want (even if it’s a gross mismatch with the phone’s area code), pick one that has unusually low taxes on telecommunications.
    02919 (johnston, rhode island) is one such zip code, as my friend can aver.

    spoofcard is a nice thing to know about, too.

    welmer:

    This after coming to my place and knocking on the window in the middle of the night in one instance.

    fuck that noise.

    in my book, ANY unsolicited appearance at my domicile, unless in the case of some desperate life- or limb-threatening emergency, is grounds for an instant breakup and termination of communication.
    no fucking questions asked.
    she calls before she comes.
    fact.
    end of story.
    there are NO exceptions, EVER.
    i don’t give a shit how hot or horny she is, or how horny i am.
    uh-uh.
    been there done that.
    once bitten…

    as you can tell, i feel rather strongly about these things.

    Like


  102. god DAMN it. i cannot use tags to save my life.

    the words starting at “fuck that noise” are mine.

    Like


  103. on December 23, 2008 at 6:24 am ironrailsironweights

    guy who posts links to gross old ugly women with hairy bushes

    Yeah, well, you’re not going to be able to say that sort of stuff about about this GNP’ed chick.

    Peter

    Like


  104. J5,
    Will do, I’m on it.

    As for your other post, I gotta tell ya, after thinking back on my “pre-Game” adventures, you’re right. Elsewhere in the forum Nicole and I have discussed BDSM to an extent, and as I have recently reported, one of my Targets has confessed to me that she is a submissive; she was attracted to me because of my Dominance.

    She makes the 4th Woman in my life who openly identified in such a fashion; and as I think back on it, most of the rest were subs, they either just didn’t know it, or didn’t openly disclose it to me.

    The problem? As per usual and is all too commonplace for Men, Mu didn’t see it-and capitalize on it.

    Until now.

    I’ve been doing a good bit of research and study into the undergirding philosophy of D/s particularly, BDSM in general; as I’ve mentioned before, I had the chance to see the culture in all its glory some years back when a past girlfriend, who was very much in the life, basically begged me to attend what is known as a “Fetish Ball” with her. It was, needless to say, quite an eye opener, and had more Black folk in attendance than I had previously assumed. Notably more Black Women, I might add.

    As you well know, Game is in large part, an introspective process. In order to be a good Player, you first have to know yourself very well-what you can and can’t do, what does and doesn’t work for you, and so on. One reason why some Players are better than others, and why Players in general simply outclass lesser men, is for the simple reason that Players spend a lot of time developing their interiors as much as their exteriors.

    Most Men, do neither.

    One thing I’m realizing out of all this, going back to your major point, is there has to be a reason as to why I keep attracting such Women into my orbit. So, I’m in the process of really understanding what “something” is.

    According to some of the theories held about D/s, such people are largely divided into these groups and are “naturals”-sound familiar (it must also be said that there is the “switch” catergory as well)? They are born and through conscious study, in the case of Doms, or via rigorous “training” in the case of subs, these innate, inborn traits are honed. At any rate, these innate qualities actually exist everywhere and at all levels of Society. Its a fascinating study as a subject unto itself, but taken together within the context of Game, it becomes an Atomic Bomb. At least to me.
    Because it occurs to me that the two are closely linked. Alpha Males are natural Dominants. And it has always been my contention that Women are natural submissives (again, for the record, there *are* Dommes, female Dominants, and, as we all know, Male subs, ie Betas). But all good subs “test” potential Doms before submission, assuming of course they pass the “tests”. Another very interesting parallel I note wrt Game.

    It occurs to me that it isn’t possible to really have the kinds of Marvin Gaye-inspired throwdowns *without* the elements you described above, and largely because of the reasons you explained and I’m attempting to expand on here.

    Powerful stuff. It feels as if I have just taken the first steps into a new world.

    Salaam
    Mu/Obsidian

    Like


  105. T, let’s say your sister started dating a White guy. It went on for about a year, and during that time, he gave all appearances of being okay with her. They went on actual dates, talked regularly, and it seemed that he loved her.

    Then one day, basking in the afterglow, he says, “This is all very nice dear, but you realize that one day I’m going to have to find a White woman to marry.”

    Then, thinking that he’s joking, she asks, “But then what will happen to me?” to which he replies, “Well dear, you can stay my mistress. It’s just that I have to marry a White woman.”

    Then he rubs the makeup off a small swastika tattoo on his forearm.

    Let that idea sink in for a moment.

    The equivalent of this actually happened to me. It’s not just that the guy lied about not being racist, and the type of relationship it was. I wasn’t looking to marry him or anyone else in the first place. It’s just that I was expecting at least basic human respect, and that if someone thought I was subhuman, they would just avoid me rather than pursuing me for the specific purpose of being a long term donkey.

    It’s not about the guy not wanting or wanting, like in a normal equal status situation. It’s about the guy feeling like it’s his god given right to use people just because they’re not the same ethnicity.

    You may think it’s the same as just being pumped and dumped, but I would rather be raped in a one night gang bang of 10 guys than to touch someone like that ever again in my life.

    Like


  106. Me:

    Sadly we don’t argue and so I never get to lose. It would be very arousing to lose an argument for once …

    Chris:

    Interesting. In a that-sounds-an-awful-lot-like-me way. 🙂

    Does your husband know about this? In my case, there’s a fairly wide range of subjects which I’m happy to learn a lot more about and discuss if I have a partner who wants that. (Sadly, I’m having lots of trouble finding an available girl who’s into that.) Perhaps he’d be similarly inclined if he knew?

    Me:

    I can’t go there with him … it would be like Arnold Schwarzenegger challenging Maria Schreiber to an arm wrestling match (except I would be the Arnold Schwarzenegger in that case).

    But hey, marriage is full of compromises and my husband is otherwise totally hot. And he can fix stuff! Seriously, our microwave broke, and he fixed it. Who does that? He fixed our freakin microwave. I love him.

    Like


  107. mu

    As you well know, Game is in large part, an introspective process. In order to be a good Player, you first have to know yourself very well-what you can and can’t do, what does and doesn’t work for you, and so on. One reason why some Players are better than others, and why Players in general simply outclass lesser men, is for the simple reason that Players spend a lot of time developing their interiors as much as their exteriors.

    correct.

    many people outside the game never realize the extent of the feedback cycle between inner and outer game, either.

    obviously, inner game begets outer game, but what few outside the game appreciate – and what many even within the game fail to ascertain – is that outer game, or at least its result, also begets inner game.
    as the old saying goes, nothing succeeds like success.
    causa latet, vis est notissima.

    the best thing about pickup is that it’s like business: 10 failures followed by 1 success makes you a success.
    my old boxing coach explained the same idea (wrt successes of character development, not pickup) in the terms of looking at a mountainous landscape from afar: even if there are 10 valleys and crevasses between you and a mountain peak, the peak is still the first (and probably the only) thing you’ll see.

    One thing I’m realizing out of all this, going back to your major point, is there has to be a reason as to why I keep attracting such Women into my orbit. So, I’m in the process of really understanding what “something” is.

    look man, i’m as scientific as the next guy, in fact almost certainly more so. but this is one of those cases where i apply louis armstrong’s definition of jazz: “man, if you have to ask, you’ll never know.”

    of the four women with whom i’ve had the best sexual relationships in my life, i could tell that all four were … minewithin the first five seconds of eye contact.
    it was just there.

    and to think how many other such eye contacts are lost to approach anxiety.

    mabuhay!
    j5/lacrimator

    Like


  108. Seriously, our microwave broke, and he fixed it. Who does that? He fixed our freakin microwave. I love him.

    i know.
    like, seriously!

    next thing you know, you’re gonna tell me there are guys out there who, like, change the oil on their own cars and plug their own plumbing leaks.
    egad!

    Like


  109. I would rather be raped in a one night gang bang of 10 guys than to touch someone like that ever again in my life.

    nicole, i have the feeling that you’re a switch and that you would absolutely savor the opportunity to be raped in a one-night gang bang of 10 guys.

    and i’m extremely curious about the apparent necessity of specifying that the gang bang is only one night long.
    i mean, ddaaaayyyyuuuumm, i thought i’d had some wild times.

    Like


  110. “of the four women with whom i’ve had the best sexual relationships in my life, i could tell that all four were … mine … within the first five seconds of eye contact.
    it was just there.”

    A lot of how you get with people is based on chemistry not game. Crappy game can screw up a nice, chemically fizzing relationship but if you lack chemistry with someone game won’t give it to you

    Like


  111. A lot of how you get with people is based on chemistry not game.

    true.
    caveat lector, though: most men are far too run-of-the-mill to generate such instant chemistry in women.
    this explains why most of the top pua’s have very inconspicuous looks.

    while by no means conventionally handsome in the all-american sort of way, i’ve consistently been described as “striking” and/or “smoldering”, a quality that certainly doesn’t hurt in the instant chemistry department.

    Like


  112. Johnny, I appreciate your attempt to lighten the mood, but the point I was making is that one night of trauma from random people is, to me, preferable to a year of touching that kind of asshole.

    I’ve experienced being raped. It’s not fun…but I did not suffer as much emotionally from that as I did from the surprise nazi.

    So when the topic of slumming it comes up, I feel the need to say don’t do it if you honestly feel like you’re slumming. The woman you think you’re doing a favor might not see it as such.

    Like


  113. Dude, johhny five, did YOU ever fix a microwave? I mean, microwaves are friggin intimidating!

    Like


  114. So when the topic of slumming it comes up, I feel the need to say don’t do it if you honestly feel like you’re slumming.

    i’m with you…

    …except for the situation in which the slumming lasts for one night, after you’ve just moved to a new town and discovered that your lil black book, unlike your cell phone, doesn’t have coverage in the area.

    i’m an addict; i need at least one pusher at all times. as soon as i find the presidential shit, i stop going to random corners, as it were.

    Like


  115. Oops, and I meant Maria Shriver. So much for my fabled language skills …

    Like


  116. groggie, by the grace of god, i’m Southern. we handle our own shit.

    Like


  117. Clio “The best way to avoid this kind of situation is not to let it develop in the first place. That means never promising – and I don’t just mean not in words, but in body language and actions – more than you intend to offer.”
    === See Cameron Diaz’ character in Vanilla Sky for a cinematic illustration (even more impressive than the stovetop bunny).

    DF “she would lie next to me whispering into my ear softly, ‘i hate you, i hate you, i hate you.'”
    === http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kxDxLAjkO8

    Like


  118. Johnny, in a one-nighter, everyone is just in it for a brief experience, so the guy has to compete for attention on the same level as the woman’s peers. He might have some advantage if he has more money, and is prettier, but often this isn’t the case since men who live harder tend to look more masculine. Also, given the opportunity, a guy with less social advantage will often work harder to gain educational/financial advantage.

    Women slum for one nighters and short term relationships too though.

    Just so y’all know I’m not doing the woman-as-victim thing though, I know more men who’ve experienced the surprise nazi thing than women. One guy I know was with his girlfriend for 3 years, and had actually been living with her for one of those years before she dumped him on the basis of ethnicity. He was so messed up from that, that his parents managed to convince him to get in an arranged marriage with his cousin.

    Like


  119. It’s pathetic that anyone here views these situations as anything but potential trouble, not actual trouble. Pathetic and immature.

    prophylaxis is hardly immature.

    when women have carte blanche to ruin men’s lives, as they do in the current incarnation of our society, paranoia is the new forbearance.

    hth.

    Like


  120. J5,
    Noted. Thanks for all the good advice!

    Salaam
    Obsidian

    Like


  121. Question for the Ladies:

    Would any of you care to explain the whole “I hate you” phenom to a Brotha?

    Por favor?

    Salaam
    O

    Like


  122. Mu, I’m female, but that’s…nah. If I hate someone, I’m not touching them to shake their hand, much less shagging them.

    In play, I’ve called men all manner of things, but I have never said, “I hate you,” to someone I didn’t actually hate, and seldom even then because it might be polluting the sample and distance me too much to be allowed to watch them suffer.

    It’s just one of those things it never occurred to me to do.

    Like


  123. on December 23, 2008 at 8:49 am Comment_Stalker

    I can see why ‘stalkers’ are really bad in American culture. After all, what is a stalker other than someone who values relationships TO MUCH.

    With the exception of the wife who pulled out “The Cop Gun”, all these “situations” strike me as boring. Yes, avoiding interaction probably lowers the chance of the woman pulling out “The Cop Gun”, but if a woman doesn’t pull out “The Cop Gun”, she is being nothing worse than an upset women. It’s pathetic that anyone here views these situations as anything but potential trouble, not actual trouble. Pathetic and immature.

    Well, I have experienced the happy, happy results of my grandparents selfishness and my fathers craziness and I have to say that I would have preferred to experience his “situation” ten to twenty times over those real problems that led to real suffering. But you people will ignore it if a oldster blows the entire family fortune because ‘they can’. That’s cause they are acting like a selfish individual, rather than a parent/grandparent. And being a selfish individual is socially GREAT.

    If only we could all be like Tom Cummins dad, then Society would prosper into a new, golden age. Tom Cummin’s Dad, you see, betrayed his son to death for no reason at all. When Tom Cummin’s cousins were raped and killed on the Chain of Rocks bridge, Tom was with them. He was also forced to jump from the bridge, but managed to survive with only one cracked rib. The police failed to notice the cracked rib, got confused over the point where he jumped on the bridge, and then were enraged that a person who had been through such trauma failed the all-knowing “lie detector” test.(On the aside, the fact that the Saint Louis Police are unaware of what lack of sleep and prolonged stress does to the reliability of lie detector tests means they have convicted many, many innocent people). Tom Cummins, drawing reserves of spine from somewhere, refused to confess no matter how wildly the cops lied to him. So the cops brought in the big guns. Tom’s dad was given super-secret double analyzed magic dancing fairy verified data that Tom could not have jumped from the place the cops thought he had jumped(he jumped somewhere else) and failed to recieve injuries(he had a cracked rib the EMT’s had missed). Therefore, since that one point of Tom’s story was unlikely(because it was wrong), Tom, who had never even been in a fist-fight, had obviously dual rape/murdered both his cousins. QED. It made sense to Tom’s dad. This all occurred within 24 hours of the murders, so the cops confusion was, slightly, understandable. Tom’s dads eagerness to pass immediate judgement is not.

    So Tom’s dad went into the interrogation room and tried to get his son to confess to a dual rape/murder.

    Like


  124. [Would any of you care to explain the whole “I hate you” phenom to a Brotha? ]

    Perhaps it is the same way that many men hate women, and yet want them at the same time? The women in question knows that the gentleman does not have the same feelings towards her, so she hates him for not reciprocating, yet she still wants him, all at once?

    Like


  125. Excellent question Clio; I’ve yet to see it but I can’t rule it out eithr.

    In any event, I think I feel an excellent Opener coming on for the upcoming “Sarge Tests”…hmm…

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  126. Somewhat urelated: there is a trainer at my gym who I’m pretty sure had studied Game. Either that, or he is a natural.

    One of the things I see him do all the time is neg the female customers that he’s training. They eat it up big time.

    And – he does it just by the book: on hot girls young girls, he lays heavy blitzkrieg negs — downright eviscerating but always in a fun spirit that doesn’t cross over to rudeness or unprofessionalism (he is at work, after all) Those girls teeter with giggles while heavily qualifying themselves to him: “Naaaw, c’mon, I would never tell my boyfriend that! tee hee!”.

    But with plainer women, especially slightly chubby ones who feel self-conscious in a gym environment, he’s very gentle. Still negs, but much more softly and in a more playful and friendly way. I can tell those girls open up to him in a big way as well.

    Like


  127. Clio,
    OK I just checkd in w/two of the fellas on the gig-Ricky The Cancer, and Stew one of the Supers. They’re both Black and its happened to them, the whole “I hate you” deal. So apparently Sistas aren’t immune to this.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  128. PA,
    Strongly noted; I’m preparing to unload some “Blizkrieg” style Negs on New Year’s Eve. There’s supposed to be some high-post Babes there. We’ll see.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  129. Good luck!

    T/Ricky had a good piece on his blog about how you wanna neg extra-heavy on the really beautiful women, and never let up.

    He wrote about how he was once heavy-negging on a hot chick at a bar and then once she became friendly with him he felt as though “she’s had enough, time to reward her with some niceness” and lost her right there.

    Like


  130. mind of jello:
    A lot of how you get with people is based on chemistry not game. Crappy game can screw up a nice, chemically fizzing relationship but if you lack chemistry with someone game won’t give it to you

    wrong. game is about teaching men chemistry. like a typical women, you mistake chemistry for some nebulous spiritual concept that cannot be modeled. it is the dearly guarded wont of the choosier sex to react in horror at the thought that men can work to control their sexual destiny.

    Like


  131. Mu’ min, the “I hate you” phenomenon among women is in a way the natural result of Game. Esp. if the man playing the Game is using some of the more extreme forms of dominance assertion to keep the woman interested, like telling her to “shut the f*** up” when she annoys him – something he has recommended. Many women who resent such treatment but are still attracted to the men who treat them this way may well end up whispering “I hate you” in intimate moments. Many women will also become that much more deterimined to “win” a man who seems to hold them in contempt – I think this phenomenon is common to both sexes and is not confined to women.

    Do the Sistas not do this? If not, perhaps it’s because they have feistier personalities to start off with, and are less likely to be attracted by the nastier forms of Game as a result.

    Like


  132. ricky raw

    <iNo you’re not alone. Most of us laugh at you too.

    :’)

    Like


  133. Stupid keyboard….

    Like


  134. Clio says, “Many women will also become that much more deterimined to “win” a man who seems to hold them in contempt…”

    I don’t get this. It seems sick to me. If a guy holds me in contempt, it’s a waste of time and energy to stay interested in him for anything, much less sex or romance.

    Girls who were rejected by their fathers do this sometimes though. They end up making the guy pay if they do win him because for some reason, even though he’s stepped up, taken another look, and decided to do right, they don’t respect him anymore.

    With that kind of woman you have to stay mean and never allow her to have any power over the relationship.

    Like


  135. Nicole
    With that kind of woman you have to stay mean and never allow her to have any power over the relationship.

    You’re not actually advocating this.

    Like


  136. Well, Sara, though ideally these women should seek professional help, this is not an ideal world.

    Also, consider the fact that a good proportion of men on this site prefer women with this particular dysfunction. Therefore, I do advocate this as a harm reduction strategy for the guy who finds himself in love with this kind of screwed up individual.

    Whatever is going on between the parents, the kids end up paying the price in an unstable or broken household. If it takes telling the woman to shut the f*ck up to keep stability in the home, then well…so be it. So long as the guy doesn’t reject his kids, and explains to them that their parents are human beings and functioning as best as they can.

    It’s obvious that none of these guys is going to wake up one morning and start looking at character as the priority in long term relationships, but this doesn’t mean that they don’t deserve love or peace in their homes. It’s one thing to make a mistake, but another to compound it by making it a total war.

    As a BDSM’er, I’m very aware and experienced with the idea that in many cases it is better to have a clear hierarchy with a strong authority figure, than it is to have two people who can’t make a solid decision to save their lives, trying to wage a relationship. Partial sanity > total insanity.

    It doesn’t always have to be the man, but it ought to be some damned body.

    Like


  137. Nicole, I brought up how it’s in the best interest for everyone involved for a guy to target a woman of lower perceived social value than him. It benefits him because he will get a woman who is very grateful for his attentions and is less likely to look to trade up soon and will likely shit-test him less often than she would a partner she felt equal or superior to. It benefits her because most women are looking either consciously or unconsciously for a higher status partner, so she’ll be happier too.

    You keep trying to refute my theory by bringing up a totally different scenario, the scenario where a guy lies to a woman about his intentions knowing full well that he has no intention of ever taking her seriously as wife material. The problem with your scenario is that it doesn’t disprove my theory at all, a guy who lies in the way you said would crush a woman’s heart regardless of their respective social statuses. If a woman had higher or equal perceived social status to a guy, and he strung her along over time only to reveal that he only wants to fuck her and not marry her, would she be less bothered by it simply because it didn’t happen with a guy of much higher social value than her? No!

    T, let’s say your sister started dating a White guy. It went on for about a year, and during that time, he gave all appearances of being okay with her. They went on actual dates, talked regularly, and it seemed that he loved her.

    Then one day, basking in the afterglow, he says, “This is all very nice dear, but you realize that one day I’m going to have to find a White woman to marry.”

    Then, thinking that he’s joking, she asks, “But then what will happen to me?” to which he replies, “Well dear, you can stay my mistress. It’s just that I have to marry a White woman.”

    Then he rubs the makeup off a small swastika tattoo on his forearm.

    Let that idea sink in for a moment.

    Nicole, I don’t need it to “sink in.” I understood your point from the first time you uttered it, I just disagree with it. Just because someone disagrees with your point doesn’t mean they don’t get it. What you describe is a separate situation from social status, it’s primarily about LYING. And the type of lie you describe would be a problem regardless of respective social status of the parties.

    For example, say my sister was with somebody of the exact same race and social status, but for some reason he just didn’t find her to be marrying material for whatever reason, which happens with guys sometimes. Or he’s just in a stage in his life where no one he dates is worth marrying because he just doesn’t want to get married at all, no matter who the girl is. So the guy strings my sister along in a pseudo-relationship or occasional dates and booty calls for a year, then tells her when put on the spot that he doesn’t want a firmer commitment of marriage from her. Even though they are the same social status and ethnicity in this case, it would be pretty devastating. This happens so much there was even a bestseller about it called He’s Just Not That Into You to keep girls from letting themselves get strung along like that by guys who lie about their intentions.

    Another example, I know an upper middle-class black girl who was strung along by a guy who was lying about his intentions. She’s dating a guy who is of definite lower social status than she is, but handles her like an alpha. She’s actually dating DOWNWARD, and they are of the same race. He basically did exactly what you said happened to my sister in your hypothetical, he has strung her along in a loosely defined relationship for almost two years and has only recently admitted to her that he will never marry her. She is now devastated and feeling like she wasted almost two years of her life chasing a guy who misrepresented herself. So you see, the situation you describe is not about the guy’s higher perceived social value, because it can happen even when a girl dates a guy of perceived lower social value. The problem is about a man, regardless of his social status, misleading a woman about his intentions, regardless of her social status.

    Another example, going to college when I was younger, I knew a black radical type of brother who knew he wanted to marry black. But he was down to fuck white girls. But for him, marrying one would be selling out. Many of these white girls were rich, most were Jewish with Long Island surgeon money, some were WASPs, most were in some sorority. His targets were usually super-liberal JAPs with white guilt and rebellion issues and staunchly liberal beta provider dads, he was great at profiling them. He would let them think he wanted more, either by omission or by outright lying, but he didn’t ever seriously consider marrying one. He was of lower perceived social status than these girls on paper, but he often broke their hearts with the exact same type of lying you describe in your hypothetical.

    Now going back to your hypothetical about my sister. Say the perceived social gap was too great between them for the guy to ever consider marrying her, and he knew it. Say he didn’t lie and string her along with false hopes for over a year, but blatantly said, “Yeah, you are hot, but I could never, ever marry someone who is not white. It just wouldn’t happen. But we could have a lot of fun for a while.” Now sure this would hurt in the short run, but at least my sister would know right from jump street not to get emotionally invested in the guy and to cut things off from the first interaction and not even date or have sex with the guy. So by telling her the truth up front, my sister gets hurt but does not get hurt as badly as if the guy strung her along for a year and was banging her continually and making her fall more in love with him the whole time.

    So I repeat, your scenario is a problem involving lying, and it is not something that is specific to higher status males and lower status females, and is not a convincing argument against such pairings. Misleading lies are a hurtful scenario that can occur in any social status or racial pairing.

    Like


  138. Newsflash: All your stalker chicks have joined together and they want to punish you. They have gotten three beta males to join you and ‘superman’ your back, just like you did the stalker chicks. They also plan to tell all the women in every pub that you drink that you are spreading diseases and that your teeny cock has warts. Perhaps you will grow up then and treat women with a tad more respect? If not, the beta boys will superman you again. I don’t like what they plan to do – so straighten up your act and start apologizing. Cheers.

    Like


  139. T, I know you don’t get it because you’re still focused on the lying when what I’m talking about is the idea that someone is entitled to do whatever they want to you based on your ethnicity alone. You don’t seem to understand that this kind of person is also capable of raping, stealing from, and killing someone just as easily as screwing them, for the same reason.

    One of the 9/11 bombers had a White American girlfriend who he felt the kind of sense of entitlement over, that I’m talking about. He did some crazy stuff to that “infidel whore” because of it.

    You might not get it because you’re a guy, so maybe this is one of that 10% of things you should trust women about.

    It is not beneficial for anyone for a guy who perceives himself as higher status, to mess around with non prostitutes who are of perceived lower status. Sex for women is very connected to affection, and women of perceived lower status are not put on this earth to be your donkeys.

    So keep your sperm dumping activities to your own women, or if you feel like some variety, that’s what hoes are for.

    …and all it takes is once for some women to put the next one through a slice of hell before he can get anywhere near her, if at all.

    Not to mention the physical danger involved if she has a father or brothers.

    Like


  140. Cannon’s Canon

    Unbelievably, my girlfriend at the time was not especially phased by this episode (she was not around for the anal rumor). I am not sure what factors of game facilitated that non-reaction: desirability to other women, admiring my grace under pressure (unlikely), or even just a latent empathy for a stalkee.

    Could it be that she really just “wasn’t that into you” in the first place? Must not be that…..

    Ricky Raw

    I thought this post would be about Sara.

    PLEASE?

    Groggie

    Being pumped and dumped does not feel good for girls. Ergo, you are deliberating doing someone you know will cause hurt feelings, for the sake of your own brief fun. Ergo, selfish and mean.

    You must be new around here.

    Gunner

    But really I can be considerate of a woman’s feelings. I don’t cave to unreasonable requests. I don’t apologize when I haven’t done anything wrong. I don’t flatter her in the hopes that she will like me more. I also don’t cheat on women. I don’t lie to them. I don’t insult them or try and hurt their feelings. I don’t try and make them feel insecure. I’m not mean to women because it gives me little pleasure. If I’m not interested in being exclusive with a woman I tell her so and she might get upset but I am not unnecessarily cruel. I don’t start relationships with women who the big attraction is that I would be able to treat them poorly and get away with it.

    You will definitely not last long around here!

    Like


  141. Nicole wished
    I’ve experienced being raped. It’s not fun…but I did not suffer as much emotionally from that as I did from the surprise nazi.

    WTF? I think we’ve already covered that you are obese. I’m calling BS on this, as well as BS on rape not bothering you more than a rake relationship.

    Like


  142. DABesides your lack of empathy at times

    He’s Eastern European. They’re not like the rest of us.
    I don’t understand?
    I notice that you ride PA for being Eastern European alot, what’s that about?

    Like


  143. RagTag, sorry to challenge your “fat women are the embodiment of all evil” worldview, but obese women get raped too. Just because a woman is fat doesn’t mean she knows how to fight. In fact, the decreased mobility that comes with sedentariness may make a fat woman more physically vulnerable than a slimmer one.

    What should make it less likely that I would be raped as an adult would be the years of martial arts and being physically strong enough to lift and throw a man 1.5 times my own weight.

    I was not raped as an adult. A couple of attempts have been made, but were thwarted, to say the least.

    The idea that rape is the worst thing that can happen to a woman is the product of feminist propaganda. There are many worse things that can be done to a person than what amounts to losing a fight.

    Barring transmission of an STD, being raped is about as humiliating as losing a fight. More trauma than this is a matter of perspective.

    The perspective of a suburban White female who was raised in relative safety all her life of rape is going to be vastly different from a girl who grew up around junkies and the like. Being raped is what happens when a girl is left alone with the wrong guy. Our therapy is friends who’ve been through the same thing, survived, and learned proper concealment and use of knives.

    I didn’t say I was completely unbothered by it…just that a one shot incident was less traumatic for me than finding out that I’d been swapping spit and sentimental moments with someone who thinks I’m a donkey for a year.

    Like


  144. Mu After one particularly ahem, juicy session where Mu made good use of the corner of her bed and was sprayed in the face by the Super Soaker
    *feeling light headed*
    OH MY GOD

    Like


  145. So I come easily, vaginally, every which way. Oh noez! Must stop orgasms otherwise will have tendancy to stalk!

    Right.

    Like


  146. LOL @ Chic

    Yup, all true, no Bullsh*t. If I’m lying I’m doing the Superman thing. She was as crazy as a bedbug, but wow, what good memories. One of them being a nice session where I was tapping it doggy style in time to “Roc The Mic” one fine Winter morning…

    *Mu goes into reverie*

    Ahem, so yea, anyway, Chic, what do you make of this “I hate you” deal some Women seem to be prone to? Comments?
    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  147. chiclet:
    Finding a young man who can fix things around the house is like finding a young woman who can cook.

    finding *any age* woman who can cook is a treasure hunt. not that it’s of critical importance. porker potential increases with the amount of love a girl has for cooking.

    I bet Roissy can’t fix a minor leak.

    i admit i can’t fix the leak in your logic.

    jrm lubed in anticipation of my attention:
    So I come easily, vaginally, every which way. Oh noez! Must stop orgasms otherwise will have tendancy to stalk!

    Right.

    you must be unfamiliar with the concept of correlation.
    ps you write like a dork.

    Like


  148. “Finding a young man who can fix things around the house is like finding a young woman who can cook.”

    move to the sticks.

    Like


  149. Roissy says, “finding *any age* woman who can cook is a treasure hunt. not that it’s of critical importance.”

    …to a guy who never intends to have children, and will always be able to afford to eat out, perhaps not.

    “porker potential increases with the amount of love a girl has for cooking.”

    I disagree. It’s easier to control calorie intake and nutrition when you cook your own food, and are in the habit of eating at home. It’s working for me. No junk comes in, so no junk gets eaten.

    Like


  150. It’s easier to control calorie intake and nutrition when you cook your own food

    it’s not the ability to homecook that is relevant, but the intensity of love the woman has for cooking that matters. a casual homecooker who isn’t obsessed with food will be healthier than a take-out aficionado, but a chick who lives in the kitchen and reads cookbooks like pulp romance novels is more likely to pork up on the rewards of her efforts.

    Like


  151. Nicole

    Therefore, I do advocate this as a harm reduction strategy for the guy who finds himself in love with this kind of screwed up individual.

    It may be a “harm reduction strategy” but one that will create more harm, but if that’s what people want, who am I to complain?

    Like


  152. Roissyfinding *any age* woman who can cook is a treasure hunt
    Must be your circle. All of the older women I know cook very well.

    @MU- The “I hate you” is something new to me as well. That’s why I asked about it. There was a woman on Taxi Cab Confessions who sad her boyfriend “almost chocked on it”. She also said she is the type to flood the bed. SMDH the things people can say to random people amazes me.

    Clio Do the Sistas not do this? If not, perhaps it’s because they have feistier personalities to start off with, and are less likely to be attracted by the nastier forms of Game as a result
    Clio, “we” have some weak women as well. Some women(&men) love drama and being treated badly. Do you remember the Sex and City episodes that featured the story of Miranda and Skippy? When he “butched” up, she parted her legs like the red sea for him. When his normal self read the non game Skippy, she dumped him for being too nice. I’ve met sisters who say that a guy is too nice. SMH how the hell can any man be too nice. I parted with a guy who started out nice but became something else.

    T Another example, going to college when I was younger, I knew a black radical type of brother who knew he wanted to marry black. But he was down to fuck white girls.
    His comeuppance would have been getting a very painful STD from one of those girls he was mistreating. Men love to wage wars against each other through the bodies of women.

    Like


  153. johnny five
    chic:
    and receive lighter sentences too.
    this can’t possibly be true.
    link?
    source?

    You know the deal. I will not use 10 minutes to hunt throught goggle. I’ve linked sources three times. That’s it for me.

    johnny five
    welmer, by far the best sex i’ve ever had was with women who loved to scream how much they hate me.
    in fact, i get completely bored with sex, even with hb8-9’s**, after only a session or two if it lacks utter male domination/feminine submission, coupled with feisty “resistance”.
    How old are you? My God
    roissy is right about girls’ wanting to be choked,
    I really wish a man would be so bold to try it. I let my former boyfriend know up front, no freaky stuff. You grab my throat, I will grab the lamp and try to smash it over your head. by the way. in fact, i’ve found that MOST women are amenable to “light spanking” – on the tits and face, not just the ass. MOST of them.
    Maybe I’m just different because I don’t like to play with my face.
    delightful.
    on the other hand, i must admit that i often turn back into clark kent after these fuck sessions
    Like the Unabomber or that serial killer who was the deacon at his church.
    , whose makeup is smeared beyond recognition, and whose face is wrecked with deepthroat spit (my favorite way to prepare just before letting ‘er rip), followed by a loving backrub.
    WTF
    😯
    What if you saw your farther doing this to your mother? How would you feel?
    I can’t believe people really get off on this type of stuff. I saw a “movie” once were the actor spit into the mouth of the actress. I was completely disgusted.

    i had a girlfriend (a real girlfriend! gasp) who loved play rapes
    I had a friend who was into this too. She told me one night after she had too much to drink. Her boyfriend looked like he had seen a ghost. I never asked her about it because it makes me uncomfortable that a woman could be into such a violent act. The friend was molested as a child so I think that may play a part in her desire to recreate an experience.
    . her pussy would cream instantly when i threw her down and shoved her legs apart, and she would moan “noooo….” in the most alluring way a man could possibly imagine throughout what could, in an amusing misnomer, be labeled “foreplay”.

    TOTALLY … NORMAL … chill … low-drama … chick
    Johnny I can’t imagine this woman was normal. Something had to happen to her as a child or before you met her.
    There is a popular romance writer whose early books feature spousal rape. She is an excellent writer but those spousal rape scenes make my skin crawl. I would always wonder why a woman would go back to a man who mistreats her. In one book, the heroine was physically abused by her former husband and what did she do, get involved with another man to berate, slap and sexually harass her. For the life of me, I don’t get other women at times.
    my old boxing coach explained the same idea
    SMH
    This^^^ makes you are very scary guy.

    Like


  154. “Finding a young man who can fix things around the house is like finding a young woman who can cook.”

    move to the sticks.

    I love the big city too much. Chic+car= big no no

    Like


  155. Roissy, love for cooking and obsession with food are different things. Obsession with food can cause anorexia or bulhemia as easily as it can cause compulsive overeating. Sometimes they all go together hand in hand.

    If a woman who is a non purging overeater cooks at home, she can be retrained more easily than one who can’t. With family support (and a husband who isn’t afraid to do some enforcing and go along with the healthier eating habits) she can ban junk and convenience foods from the home…so whatever is made, someone has to make it, and this means consciousness of what’s going into the food.

    If you really want to see fewer fat women, then you should use some of your hard coreness to support ideas to make that happen. Too many people are getting fatter because fewer people are cooking things from scratch. Besides, running around a kitchen burns calories.

    Sara, hurt feelings at the moment aren’t harm. Telling someone when they’re pushing the limits or talking out of their ass is not going to be pleasant for them at the moment, but it can prevent greater harm.

    I’m not advocating tyranny, just peace keeping. A man telling a woman to shut up when she’s being hysterical doesn’t preclude her telling him the same when he’s stepped out of line.

    The idea is to have boundaries, and policies within the family for keeping them.

    Ideally, people should be civil to one another no matter what, but if one person has trouble with that sometimes, then the other has to “man up” and remind them of the rules.

    Sometimes, it can be done with just a look or a tone of voice.

    Like


  156. chiclet:
    Must be your circle. All of the older women I know cook very well.

    how old we talking? yeah, 60 year olds will know how to cook well because they were raised in a different environment. if by older you mean 30s and 40s, well, it must be your circle. judging by the torrent of complaints i hear from married guys and boyfriends of 30-40ish women, the art of cooking well is lost to these post-feminist revolution careerist broads.

    chic, in the future, you may want to think… now hold on, i know this is asking a lot of the hamster in your head!… about stopping yourself from posting idiotic useless personal anecdotes that contribute absolutely zilch to the discussion.

    yeah yeah i know this is a lot to ask of a chick, as it is the wont of your whimsical gender to answer logic with amusingly paltry diversionary slice of life anecdotes, but please… think of the hamster.

    Like


  157. 40 and over.

    stopping yourself from posting idiotic useless personal anecdotes that contribute absolutely zilch to the discussion

    judging by the torrent of complaints i hear from married guys and boyfriends of 30-40ish women, the art of cooking well is lost to these post-feminist revolution careerist broads

    What the hell is that^^^.

    BTW you are over the top with your war on fat people. Something tells me you were fat as child and have been lucky enough to remain thin as an adult. From your pictures, you appear to weight 130lbs at most. I bet you have an eating disorder or disordered eating at the very least.

    Like


  158. chiclet:
    What the hell is that^^^.

    it’s me giving you a taste of your own medicine.
    and also pointing out that it takes more than your social circle to identify a trend.

    BTW you are over the top with your war on fat people.

    fat men don’t bother me so much. after all, i don’t want to fuck them.
    fat women, otoh, are repulsive eyesores. it is in the interest of men everywhere that fatsos be shamed into eating less. society benefits too, but that is ancillary to the benefit i personally receive when there are more attractive women in the market from which to choose.

    Something tells me

    would that something be stupidity?

    you were fat as child and have been lucky enough to remain thin as an adult.

    it’s laughable to me how off the mark so many of you amateur psychologists have been when attempting to pinpoint the exact location of my source of power.

    From your pictures, you appear to weight 130lbs at most.

    well then, either you are looking at pictures of someone else, or your ability to judge my weight is severely compromised by your desire to confirm your vengeance-quenching beliefs about me.

    I bet you have an eating disorder or disordered eating at the very least.

    i bet you’re stupid. and given the evidence each one of us has in hand, i’m sitting on better odds than you.

    Like


  159. Roissy said, “it’s laughable to me how off the mark so many of you amateur psychologists have been when attempting to pinpoint the exact location of my source of power.”

    Funny, I was thinking something similar while reading your last attempt at bringing me the pain.

    :: eye roll ::

    Like


  160. Funny, I was thinking something similar while reading your last attempt at bringing me the pain.

    oh, the source of your pain module is right there for the world to see. no guesswork required.

    :: eye roll ::

    i’ve read that’s what cows do when you brand them.

    Like


  161. Yeah, Roissy, and squealing is what pigs do when you fist them. 😉

    Like


  162. Yeah, Roissy, and squealing is what pigs do when you fist them.

    i wouldn’t know.

    ps if you’re gonna take a shot, don’t sugarcoat it with a smiley. blast with both barrels. otherwise, you just look weak.

    Like


  163. groggieBut hey, marriage is full of compromises
    so true
    and my husband is otherwise totally hot. And he can fix stuff! Seriously, our microwave broke, and he fixed it. Who does that? He fixed our freakin microwave. I love him.

    Finding a young man who can fix things around the house is like finding a young woman who can cook. I bet he can’t fix a minor leak.

    Like


  164. Nicole

    Telling someone when they’re pushing the limits or talking out of their ass is not going to be pleasant for them at the moment, but it can prevent greater harm.

    Agreed, I thought you might have been talking about a long term strategy not a “in the moment” device. I’m all for getting it out in the open and open confrontation is a hell of a lot better than passive aggressive strategies that roissy often recommends. They do much more harm and only feed the ego of the one administering the hidden punishments.

    Like


  165. Roissy

    i know this is asking a lot of the hamster in your head!… about stopping yourself from posting idiotic useless personal anecdotes that contribute absolutely zilch to the discussion.

    You like women? Or not? LOL The personal is what we are all about. Get a sexbot.

    Chic

    Don’t bother with the perverts on this site. They get off too much on being ill and finding illl women to unleash themselves on. It’s quite unlovely and unworthy of your fine attention. Just my opinion. Sickos are a dime a dozen.

    Like


  166. sara, prepare to get a tingle in your taco, i’m about to respond to you.

    You like women? Or not? LOL The personal is what we are all about.

    personal anecdotes are great when it’s a woman i’m on a date with telling me her stories.
    but they’re worthy of my righteous galvanized dual-action overhead cam fuel injected fury of stylistic contempt when they’re used to buttress a stupid nonargument in the comments to one of my exceedingly brilliant posts.

    Like


  167. Roissy, I’m female.

    coulda fooled… ah, too easy.

    I’m allowed to look weak.

    allowing’s got nothing to do with it.

    You might want to take care that your attacks against me in the future are about things I actually said.

    female arguing tactic #21 in a series: accuse your opponent of responding to things unsaid that were actually said.
    clio pulls this maneuver a lot.

    Otherwise you might look weak, and being male, that would be bad for you.

    weak.

    Like


  168. I see, Roissy. It’s like this dude I knew in high school who used to call me a bitch every day.

    There was no particular reason. It just started the day I arrived, and didn’t stop until a containment incident in which one of his friends learned a lesson about jumping on bandwagons.

    So I guess if you’re just going to make things up, and I’m going to be your favorite villain then well…fire away.

    Go on…tell me how fat and ugly I am again.

    Like


  169. chic:

    first off:
    make no mistake about it, these girls slap and claw me right back, too.
    during this particular brand of “i hate you” sex, if it’s missionary, i’ll often goad the girl to slap me across the face as hard as she can, repeatedly, and/or carve red lines in my back with her nails (attention DA! sometimes they’re acrylic!) as she’s cumming.
    i wasn’t kidding about “feisty ‘resistance’ “.

    How old are you? My God

    older than i feel. i still won’t need a sixth binary digit for some time, though. (if you’re at least part “spectrum”, as you’ve indicated, you’ll have no trouble interpreting that.)

    chic, the single biggest turn-on for me is knowing that a woman sees herself as my property, at least in the bedroom.

    i sometimes teeter at the edge of ejaculation until the woman breathlessly gives the correct answers to “who owns this pussy?” and “who does this body belong to?”

    as a result, a few of my relationships haven’t necessarily ended when they’ve ended, if you follow me. one of my ex-girlfriends still considers her body my property, even though she’s already had another serious relationship since then.

    this utter possession and domination is much hotter to me than pure HB points. i still have a threshold of 7 or so, but, given a binary choice, i’d much rather utterly own a 7.5 than just fuck a 10. no question about it.

    and, nicole/clio, it is perfectly possible to do this without ANY words or body language that indicate my wanting her heart or her self as my property.

    roissy is right about girls’ wanting to be choked,
    I really wish a man would be so bold to try it. I let my former boyfriend know up front, no freaky stuff. You grab my throat, I will grab the lamp and try to smash it over your head.

    two things.

    1, it’s not like this simply occurs out of the blue. it’s a very smooth progression, during which i notice and interpret appropriate signals.
    (ATTENTION BOYS: class is now in session.)
    * if she breaks eye contact to take a sultry gaze down at the floor while you’re flirting, she wants to be dominated hard.
    * if her breath quickens when you pull her hair, she wants to be dominated hard.
    * if she gives you attitude, she wants to be dominated hard.
    * if she has an unusually high degree of sway in her hips as she walks, she wants to be dominated hard.
    * if her upper body goes a little limp and her pelvis grinds into you as you kiss her, she wants to be dominated hard.
    (class is now adjourned.)

    if these signals are present – and they are all present in nearly 100% of the girls i like – then the throat lock, hand over mouth, stepping on hair during doggy, (light) face slapping, spit lubing, etc. is the culmination of a process that starts with such “innocent” foreplay as throwing her up against a wall in the first semi-private location available.

    don’t worry chic, i would never fuck up a woman’s face.
    i leave girls’ asses decorated in Ole Miss colors on the regular, though.

    Like the Unabomber or that serial killer who was the deacon at his church.

    chic, show me ANYONE who has exactly the same personality inside and outside the bedroom and i’ll show you someone who is either (1) sexually repressed, (2) sociopathic, or (3) both.

    What if you saw your farther doing this to your mother? How would you feel?

    if i SAW it, i would quietly close the door and pretend i hadn’t.

    sweetie, if ANY married couple, after decades of togetherness, had the same addictive sexual chemistry i’ve had with these women – no matter who they were – i would shake their hands and congratulate them.

    I can’t believe people really get off on this type of stuff. I saw a “movie” once were the actor spit into the mouth of the actress. I was completely disgusted.

    spitting is de rigueur for some things. a titty fuck without spit-lube, for example, would be akin to a piston without motor oil.

    i’ve spit in the mouth of every girlfriend i’ve had since age seventeen, but not in the same way you’d spit on her tits or spit on the ground. more of the “open her mouth and let the saliva flow effortlessly before kissing her” sort of thing.
    there’s no way to explain it in words without ruining the hotness of it.

    Johnny I can’t imagine this woman was normal. Something had to happen to her as a child or before you met her.

    chic, “normal” women are the ones who DO have such fantasies, and allow them with TRUSTED partners.

    as much of an asshole as i am to some of these women, i have never, never, NEVER broken their trust.

    the ones who aren’t “normal”, in my experience, are the ones who don’t admit their fantasies.

    There is a popular romance writer whose early books feature spousal rape. She is an excellent writer but those spousal rape scenes make my skin crawl. I would always wonder why a woman would go back to a man who mistreats her. In one book, the heroine was physically abused by her former husband and what did she do, get involved with another man to berate, slap and sexually harass her. For the life of me, I don’t get other women at times.

    chic, for the eighty-seventh fucking time, i’m talking about sex play.
    consensual acts are not “physical abuse”.
    period.
    fact.
    end of story.

    if you classify any of the sex i’ve told you about as physically abusive, then this means you view women as children who are not mature enough to make their own decisions.

    This^^^ makes you are very scary guy.

    what, boxing?
    chic, i’m half pinoy, and i grew up middle-class in louisville. given that cultural background, it’d be more scary if i hadn’t boxed.

    Like


  170. holstein:
    love for cooking and obsession with food are different things.

    nice try muddying the waters. your artificial, strained distinction is pointless for the purposes of my assertion. the stronger the love a woman has for cooking, the more likely she will be a walking billboard advertising her consumption of that love.

    Obsession with food can cause anorexia or bulhemia as easily as it can cause compulsive overeating.

    what is the country more full of: gross fat fucks or anorexics?

    Sometimes they all go together hand in hand.

    or not.
    ps hire an editor.

    Like


  171. I’m female. I’m allowed to look weak.

    You might want to take care that your attacks against me in the future are about things I actually said. Otherwise you might look weak, and being male, that would be bad for you.

    Like


  172. Comment_Stalker

    So Tom’s dad went into the interrogation room and tried to get his son to confess to a dual rape/murder.

    Selling out sons/boys is considered a social virtue in America. Most other cultures are horrified by this barbarism.

    Like


  173. but they’re worthy of my righteous galvanized dual-action overhead cam fuel injected fury of stylistic contempt when they’re used to buttress a stupid nonargument in the comments to one of my exceedingly brilliant posts.

    Naturally I disagree but that was GOOD.

    Like


  174. Chic

    Johnny Five is one of those boys from The Dirty South:

    Baby I don’t wanna talk,
    I just wanna lick your cock
    Ooh slap that shit across my face.
    Put it in my mouth, give me a taste.
    Stop. Don’t waste a drop
    of that sweet tea, squirt it on my top!

    Chorus:
    I want y’all to kiss my grits
    I want y’all between my biscuits
    I want y’all to be all mine
    Well fuck me runnin’ cuz I ain’t got time

    I’m not a harlot, but I’m in Charlotte
    And my drawers get wet when they call me darlin’
    Aint no doubt I need to find out why
    The others jump for the southern comfort
    C’mon let’s hump for a little while.
    I like your smile, style, and they way you treat me
    Cuz you act so sweetly.

    So boys you’d better step up.
    Drag me to the back of your truck.
    Fry me with your big fat pickle.
    Pour your gravy on my nipples.
    You been talkin’ some raunchy shit,
    but southern boys,
    Shut up and gimme that dick.

    Chorus

    Your hot n’ dirty makes me flirty
    love the way you call me purdy
    Sayin’ things that make me horny
    so I go buy you a 40
    Y’all know how the story ends,
    me you and some of your friends
    ‘cuz I want lots of southern head.

    I’m awful fond of your hospitality.
    Don’t want to hear none of that morality.
    In NYC the boys, they’re hip,
    but they think with their minds and not their dicks.
    I want a dirty boy from the dirty south
    fuck me all night then bust a nut in my mouth,
    Bend me over, treat me rough.
    Do it on the porch or the pickup truck.
    Hell, I don’t care if he’s inbred
    if his dick is hard and he gives good head.

    Song by Avenue D.

    Like


  175. I find it shocking that men on here have a hard time finding women in their 20s-40s who can cook. I’d say over 70% of the girls I have gone out with or are friends with can cook, and cook well. If that is what you are aiming for, then it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that these aren’t the girls you continuously try to pick up at bars or clubs. Brains people! Brains!

    Like


  176. i had a stalker visit my country from the other side of the world. i met her at an international conference, i barely remember talking to her but she started professing love, integrating herself with my friend group online, and tried to arrange always being in the same part of the world as me.

    it was a truly disturbing experience, and honestly… completely ignoring them is the only option.

    Like


  177. I got rid of a girl last year by constantly calling her, texting her, facebook-messaging her, etc…

    It worked after about a week.

    Like


  178. You guys are all wrong. The easiest solution to get her off your back is to act like a beta.

    Like


  179. you really are a pathetic excuse for a human being and being

    and so are all your flunkies here… guess you do not know, who your father is??

    Like


  180. […] You usually have to bang the babe in order to get her to stalk you. Psycho senses…tingling! Ms Parfrey was sacked from the police in September 2007, five months […]

    Like


  181. […] I would totally emphasize if he was), but rationality doesn’t enter into the mind of a woman whose psycho stalker programming is activated. Her defense? The victim did […]

    Like


  182. on July 20, 2010 at 7:29 am gunslingergregi

    Dam johnny five on fire on this thread. he he he

    Like


  183. […] girly personalities. The most “confidence” we care about you having is enough so that you don’t go psycho and start stalking us when we don’t answer your ten bajillion phone calls in the past three hours. […]

    Like


  184. Hell hath no fury like a woman who has lost her beta provider.

    Like


  185. […] “I’ve had my fun and I don’t want to deal with this bunny-boiling bitch any more than I need to! Sayonara, sista!” DeGeare said the two were in an “on-again, […]

    Like


  186. Don’t tell her you love her and beta-simper, it doesn’t work.

    This is foolproof:

    Call her in tears, describing a bunch of very beta behavior on your part, aimed at another woman, when she offers to comfort you, cry harder, describe your loneliness, and tell her you “dont want her to see you like this”

    Works like a dream.

    Like


  187. I should add:

    For newbies, a good way to practice game is to start with girls they do not actually want, this makes it easy to be aloof and disinterested.

    When they have one ‘on the hook’ as they say, it’s good to have a conversation by text or AIM, where response times can be longer, identify the shit tests, and systematically pass and fail them.

    The poor girl ends up a wreck and eventually leaves, but an experienced cad going through this exercise loses what little respect he may have had for women, and a newbie can quickly get to a point where he needs to tone down, rather than tone up the ‘alpha’.

    As a measure of her devotion, see how many shit tests you can fail in a row before you have to pass a few to not lose her.

    Like