Good Examples Of Readers Passing Shit Tests

An emailer writes:

My girlfriend of two years sent me this text last evening: “My ma says that we aren’t going to last forever bc you’re just settling with me.”

My response this morning: “Ridiculous. You’ll always have a prominent place in my harem, babe.”

It goes without saying that in the past I would have responded with something along the lines of: “No, babe, we’ll be together forever” or some such lackadaisical retort. After being initiated beyond the level of neophyte in the crimson arts, however, I pass shit tests like an East Asian passes advanced Calc.

Strong, the alpha is in this one. His response was a combination of agree and amplify game and sarcastic disqualification.

Commenter dilla writes:

Couldn’t figure out how to send an e-mail, so I thought I’d post this prime example of a shit test.


me: hey lets go for that drink tomorrow

her: hi!! I actually already have plans, sorry
(note no attempt to reschedule)

me: gay.

her: my brother is gay but I suppose this is gay too.
(shittest. chances were good she was bs’ing, but you have to assume shes not)

me: oh ya? so is my cousin we should hook them up

her: haha! I was just kidding, i just wanted to see how you would react
(skank. but she might as well be telling me shes down for the cause)

me: my cousin will be disappointed. when are you free this week

A beta would have backpedaled and reflexively apologized. Dilla knew better.

Reader Sonso emails:

The pain of a girl getting flaked on.

So I had plans to meet a girl between 10 and 11AM. She lives about an hour and a half outside my city, but had to come in early to take care of some things and would be free at that time.

At 10:30 I get a text saying ”I’m just leaving my place now,” so I go and meet up with some friends instead. At around 1:30 I get a call asking if I was still around, and said I was. She said she was coming, but my phone died before she arrived.

The next day I get a message saying ”I hate you!”.

If a man ever sent a message to a girl saying ”I hate you!” after a flake, how quickly that snatch would snap closed…

This is more accurately described as an example of not taking blatant shit from a girl, rather than passing a flirtatious shit test. The two are related, as your response to either will determine how she perceives your attractiveness. “I hate you!” is girlcode for “I hate you for making my gina buzz like a hornets’ nest!”. Sonso should try again with this girl in about a week, but even if it leads nowhere he will have the satisfaction of knowing he retained his dignity and got under her skin.

My readers are starting to get it. Do you?


  1. I’d say I was a lesser alpha to begin with, but this site has made my game, and my general manliness, increase infinitely.


  2. The most liberating take-away from a few months of digesting the site, as well as some of the applied tips, is just not giving a shit anymore.

    Ever since I’ve focused inward (on myself) as opposed to outward (on the fluttering pussy), my quality of life has exponentially increased, as has access to a variety of the aforementioned pussy.

    There are also a few tricks I still need to play in order to get over the betaesque impulse to pedestalize and disqualify myself, but it’s becoming a lot more natural. For example:

    1.) Any time I sense myself placing a would-be princess on a pedestal on account of her youthful charms and tight booty, I just picture her getting gang-banged with multiple cocks in every orifice – and loving it. This usually reboots me back to the driver’s seat of getting her panties wet to begin with. (I believe this was a commenter’s tip on a previous pots – hats off, sir!)

    2.) Constantly reminding myself that they want to be the ones impressing me, and not the other way around. In a new crowd, divulge only necessary information and assert myself.

    3.) Most importantly – never, ever be afraid to walk away to prove your worth. Classic DHV. The pussy is a dime a dozen, and not worth compromising yourself for. Just like the kitty, it always comes back, the very next day…

    Cheers to you senor, as well as the community of well researched readers for keeping the goods coming!


  3. on October 23, 2010 at 10:33 am Anonymouses Anonymous

    Starting. Not seeing as positive restults as I would like to see, but I am seeing a major improvement. The most improvement came after dealing with the woman I wrote you about last winter.

    Speaking of her, I went from wondering what went wrong, to blaming her for being a golddigger, to blaming myself for being beta with her, to not giving a shit because I am meeting far better women.

    One thing I learned is that having options is the answer to not being beta.


  4. At first i didn’t like the idea of responding to a chick flaking on a scheduled meet with something like “gay” or “lame” and usually have just not responded in the past but seeing how dilla restarted with that i’m going to try that out and see what happens.


  5. Roissy, you’re not a writer. You’re a revolutionary. Thanks for the post mang, keep tell the cunt in her place, 1 woman at a time.


  6. Having to deal with Chinese and especially Korean women inured me to shit tests.

    Want to test your mettle?

    Try this in Asia. And when you think China is beaten down, at last, then try Korea. It’s like heavy rain in a typhoon. And it never, ever stops.


  7. The most shocking thing about what you write is the fact that it for the most part is so damn true.

    All the human behaviors and actions, you pretty much nail it. That post you put up on “How to game women by age bracket.” It was on the money it was personally scary to me.

    It was verbatim how women act. Especially the older brackets 32-35 and the 35 +.


    You know the bible writes about people like you.

    “Blessed is he who in the name of charity and good will shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother’s keeper”


  8. Having to deal with Chinese and especially Korean women inured me to shit tests.

    Want to test your mettle?

    Try this in Asia. And when you think China is beaten down, at last, then try Korea. It’s like heavy rain in a typhoon. And it never, ever stops.

    Just pretend you’re Animal Mother in Full Metal Jacket and you’ll have the proper attitude. =)


  9. What East_Pole said. The true value of this site for me was to show me how to awaken the sleeping man within and change my attitude and behavior from lifelong beta to budding proto-alpha.

    Casd in point one: my teen-age daughter, with whom I have a strained relationship, obstensibly moved in with me last fall but spent most of her nights with my parents or with friends. Her disdain and even dislike for me is palpable. For about the last month I’ve completely changed the way I’ve always tried to relate with her (beta provider) and instead have dealt with her as an alpha should deal with his girl – deflecting shit tests, gentle negging, standing up for myself – and last week she asked if she could move back in. We’ve talked more in the last week than in the last two years. The most elementary application of game, as practiced by a recovering beta, completely transformed a broken relationship in less than a month.

    Case in point two: I’m dance-impared but last night went (for the first time) to a local ballroom for a party and free group lessons. Way more girls than guys. I danced with many but rather than stumbling over myself in lame beta flirting with my partners I was focused like a laser on my mission of that moment – to learn the steps and movements of basic ballroom dancing – and kept my attention on the instructor’s footwork and not my partner. Indeed, I didn’t pay any attention to my partners whatsoever other than in the mechanics of learning the dances. It was tremendous fun to (a) be able to concentrate on what I wanted to do and (b) to not be in the least flustered by or even interested in any the girls present.

    Girls came by my table (shared with the couple that had invited me) all evening. Many brought me drinks. I was presented with both numbers and outright requests for dates. Including the smoking hot dance instructor (half my age) that did the group lesson for the foxtrot, then singled me out for a little one-on-one instruction.

    My time on this Earth is halfway done, but the rest of my life is going to be absolutely terrific. The sleeper has awakened!


  10. The shit test I began passing lately was this one:

    Her: So what are you looking for?

    Me: With the right person, anything can happen, don’t you think?

    Her: oh…yeah…

    I banged her.

    The other one was with a Mainland Chinese girl I’d known for years and banged. She started putting up the Anti-Slut Defense a few days later.

    Her: “I regret it…I don’t think I can have sex with you again….”

    Me: I’m glad you said that. I don’t think I can have sex with you either….

    Her: Really? Why?

    Me: pause

    Her: You there? Why?

    Me: Oh. That. I can’t have sex with you because you’re not shaved. Sorry. It’s a thing with me. You are “nong ming” (Nong ming means peasant or hick)

    Her: hahahaha ok ok, next time you come I will wax.

    For weeks since that time. All she keeps talking about is me visiting her again and giving her enough time to wax.

    I was really just reframing and didn’t want to make it sound like I really cared.

    Another shit test I passed. I was chatting with a Chinese girl online I’d met through a chat room.

    Her: You’re not really my cup of tea anyway,

    Me: Wait.

    Her: Wait. Why?

    Me: I see you’re 36. A bit old for me, I’m looking for someone younger, hotter, tighter. I was giving you a shot.

    Her: I’m hot

    Me: You’re 36. Bye.

    At least if I”m going to get blown out, I reframe.


  11. I just took a gander at your quantcast.

    WTF did you post on 8/15/10?


    ps – Also, your reach is growing. As are others in the seduction/PUA universe. It will be interesting to see how tactics are forced to evolve as more women inevitably start tuning in. I wish we could secret password this mofo. XY only.


  12. Yes, I’ve learned a whole new inner game from here. I don’t take it to the extremes, but the extremes can still be instructive. I pass shit tests regularly now, where I used to be such a puss about it.


  13. This is an excellent post


  14. I like these examples.

    It’s so important to read shit like this because it’s the only way to buttress beta tendencies.

    [Editor: I think you mean jettison. Buttress is what we call a fat woman’s ass.]


  15. on October 23, 2010 at 1:14 pm The Rational Male

    The key to dealing with women and passing shit tests is to take them about as seriously as you would your 4 year old niece.


  16. on October 23, 2010 at 2:22 pm Prophet Animal Mother

    so très GAY:

    You know the bible writes about people like you.

    “Blessed is he who in the name of charity and good will shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother’s keeper”


  17. on October 23, 2010 at 2:30 pm Animal Mother

    There is a more RAINBOW_GAY one:

    I’d say I was a lesser alpha to begin with, but this site has made my game, and my general manliness, increase infinitely.

    YEAH, my dick is getting bigger every day cos’o’Roissy, also is my lame!

    Lame me! © by First Commenter of This Post


  18. Southern Man wrote:

    “We’ve talked more in the last week than in the last two years. The most elementary application of game, as practiced by a recovering beta, completely transformed a broken relationship in less than a month. ”

    That made me cry 🙂

    I am female, but I recommend this website to men I meet all the time.

    What price could anyone put on stuff like Southern man shared above?


  19. I think this video illustrates a lot of the facts that this blog professes:


  20. Related to the first one:

    Girl 11 yrs younger sez “My older brother and father say you’re only into me for the sex.”

    Me “That’s because they think of you as the little girl you once were and not the woman you’ve become”

    Worked. Probaby true anyway.

    [Editor: That reply was a bulls-eye.]


  21. I am female, but I recommend this website to men I meet all the time.

    What price could anyone put on a stiff one like this from the Southern man from above?


  22. All women will test your manhood, even daughters. A woman can’t look up to you if you have placed her above yourself.

    @Southern Man
    Good work, when she wants to share with you, you know you are on the right track.

    I highly recommend the book “Strong Fathers, Strong Daughters” by Margaret J. Meeker. Read it. It will have the same ring of truth that Roissy’s writings have.


  23. Had an “argument” with the wife last night about gender roles. She had watched that awful show Teen Mom and one of these so called mothers abused her omega boyfriend (the baby’s father). I said all he had to do was show a little dominance and she’d back down. Her little “feminist” got mad and called me sexist. Ten minutes after using cheesy sex novels and Twilight as examples proving that women like aggressive men (even faggots that sparkle) I expanded my original statment to say that “most women” instead of “all women” want to be dominated. She agreed with me and had a look of wanting.

    Recognize. Deflect. Defeat. Bang. Repeat.


  24. Good response to ‘i hate you’ is simply ‘god you’re sexy when you’re angry!’ 😉


  25. Off-topic but awesome:

    [Supermodel Paulina] Porizkova Feels ‘Invisible’ And ‘Sad’ At 45


  26. The horny host of Millionaire is Meredith Vieira… and she’s married to Richard Cohen, a 63 year old with multiple sclerosis. Can you imagine sitting home with MS watching your whore wife act like a schoolgirl in front of a virile young military man?

    I just hope he still has the strength to beat her when she gets home.


  27. The first one was a truly fantastic example. While I have failed a similar one about a year ago, this time I am proud of myself for instinctively thinking of the same “harem” response 🙂


  28. Science said:

    “The horny host of Millionaire is Meredith Vieira… and she’s married to Richard Cohen, a 63 year old with multiple sclerosis. Can you imagine sitting home with MS watching your whore wife act like a schoolgirl in front of a virile young military man?”

    It’s only science.


  29. DAMN I wish I could’ve learned this stuff YEARS earlier than I did.
    I’ve got cringe-inducing memories of biting my tongue to keep things pleasant on the surface, as if objecting to crap behavior was very risky behavior I’d probably regret.
    One thing that saved me eventually was realizing that my silent tolerance would ruin any great moments which might happen later, as I would be feeling sour on some level, and my scorn would manifest at unfortunate moments.
    I was slow to learn that maintaining the self-respect which requires intolerance of bad behavior is worth more than getting positive attentions from someone who abused your good nature, your availability, etc.
    Posts like this one are (for me anyway) the most valuable kind of thing this blog has to offer.


  30. I made a girl cry over the Internet. Is there anything game can’t do?


  31. on October 23, 2010 at 5:32 pm That's What's Up

    I had been seeing a very attractive 22-year old bi-racial woman about twice a week. The sex was good and the time and investment was minimal. On occasion she got a bit uppity on text messages or failed to answer her cell or respond in a timely manner. I responded to one pissy email wth “That’s Ghetto!” She immediately went balistic, but then became very attentive and couldn’t do enough for me.

    Like Roissy has said before, one good way to guarantee a prompt call back is to simply habg up when your call goes to voicemail.


  32. Lesson Learned?

    Women are nuts. So play that musical instrument how it was designed to be played. Play it (her) to create a crescendo of a clashing, cacophony of contradictory chords. She loves insanity. Feels like home. Peace and tranquility is a sterile prison to the female mind.

    Men create harmonious, logical classical music. Women create noise.


  33. Remember the movie ‘Face Off’. John Travolta’s character was regularly getting shit tested by his daughter. And failing. After the identity change he became the bad ass. His daughter lit up like a Christmas tree for the new him.


  34. The logical end product of feminism…


  35. I fandle shit tests pretty well, here is a recent one I am especially proud of:

    Me: Its cold outside, you should wear a coat today.

    She: Well you still haven’t bought me one.

    Me: And I wont!

    It sounds simple, but the sheer boldness, tonailty, playfullness, brevity and conviction made it simply uber!

    She immidiatly threw herself away from mirror and started sucking my nipples in a sexual frenzy.

    I guess for an uneducated beta it would look like a miracle.


  36. The key with shit tests is to NEVER project bitterness. All shit tests must be handled with humor, irony, and with a smirk on your face. I think alot of budding alphas miss the mark and just end up projecting some underlying bitterness in their delivery.

    Even remaining aloof and uncaring with a detached demeanor is better than the possibility of projecting bitterness. The point with shit tests is to always remain ABOVE the psychological ploy that she is attempting to enmesh you in.


  37. julian

    The key with shit tests is to NEVER project bitterness. All shit tests must be handled with humor, irony, and with a smirk on your face. I think alot of budding alphas miss the mark and just end up projecting some underlying bitterness in their delivery.

    Even remaining aloof and uncaring with a detached demeanor is better than the possibility of projecting bitterness. The point with shit tests is to always remain ABOVE the psychological ploy that she is attempting to enmesh you in.

    Ya, but sometimes a shit test isn’t a shit test. It’s just a girl being a cunt. Then being angry at her and calling her a rude arrogant big head is fine. Because at that point you just don’t want to fuck her anyway.

    Sometimes a guy makes a girl qualify and brings things to extremes in the push pull game, because the girl genuinely pisses him off, and is showing that she is not even trying to be worthy.

    It’s no game that when a girl is being disrespectful, well past shit tests that fall in the realm of flirting, that a man has no choice but to call her out. Cause no way you want to get involved with a nut case who won’t psychologically submit.


  38. on October 23, 2010 at 8:37 pm schfifty five

    Shit test or not?….:

    A girl chats you up on an online dating site, then stops responding to your messages suddenly. Leaves you hanging.



  39. For instance I was recently doing some online flirting with a girl, whose idea of flirting was to be abrasive and affrontive and to deny my personal experience in favor of telling me what my feelings are. When I explained that feel love on the first date and first fuck, she told me it’s sad that I never feel that anyone is special. This after I’d already explained my 6 months of torment after my mate died. Basically she projected her insecurities and anger at being pumped and dumped onto me and invalidated any and all of me, so that she’d be the weak little poor good girl who’se frame was the only valid frame. BPD. It’s infuriating when girls deny you your experience. Telling me I was incapable of love.

    Arrogant bitch like that would get no fuck from me.

    Some girls are so afraid of heartbreak they project anger and mistrust and instead of flirting just endlessly attack. Not even worth a pump and dump.


  40. Some women are of the “men don’t have real feelings, not any feelings that count” school.

    These women want to dominate the household, dominate the mood. If they won’t submit to the man’s authority, they are less than useless – they are deliberate trouble.

    Some women are the ultimate narcissists – wanting attention but refusing to empathize or even to acknowledge any “other”. All they see is how others make them feel, and if they feel bad, then the other is wrong and is making a mistake, and she will consider that she knows why and what is going on with the guy, and will refuse to listen hear or believe anything that tells her any story that doesn’t put her in the victim role.

    Girls of the “men’s feelings aren’t real and don’t count and don’t even exist” school are to be insulted down to the dirt.


  41. CW

    Good response to ‘i hate you’ is simply ‘god you’re sexy when you’re angry!’ 😉

    Better response: “I don’t care.”
    Even better: “I honestly don’t care.”
    It’s in the delivery though. You have to mean it – mean that what you want from the girl is her lust and attentive behavior, and that her anger makes next to no difference to you. Its her submission and your control over her and her lust that matters. Or what we usually call “love”.

    It’s perfectly acceptable if she hates you. She should. She should hate the control you have over her – how inescapable her love is for you, despite how you are such a prick sometimes.


  42. And with that attitude her “I hate you” will morph into a term of endearment. She’ll instead say “you are such an asshole”. And will say it with a wry loving smile – as if she’d have it no other way.


  43. Woof

    Related to the first one:

    Girl 11 yrs younger sez “My older brother and father say you’re only into me for the sex.”

    Me “That’s because they think of you as the little girl you once were and not the woman you’ve become”

    Worked. Probaby true anyway.

    [Editor: That reply was a bulls-eye.]

    And a good example of positive re-inforcement for genuinely positive traits. In other words, a compliment.

    Not enough is said on this blog about the value of compliments.


  44. Ubermind

    Me: Its cold outside, you should wear a coat today.

    She: Well you still haven’t bought me one.

    Me: And I wont!

    Haha! She thought that you’re a beta provider because you displayed a modicum of caring. Seeming-Beta-to-alpha switch! Very powerful. She’ll now want your sons. You just need to make sure that you decide when she can have them.

    But if you don’t have her slotted for a LTR/VLTR with a family in mind, don’t use it!


  45. I get it! Where’s MY prize, Roissy?


  46. There’s this girl I work with that’s acted shady with text messages in the past. And back then, I was a beta-type who let it slide. I used to ask her questions and get no reply back, in which I said ‘forget it, talk to ya later!’

    This last Thursday, however, was a mutual friend’s birthday.
    Me: Hey, you heading out to [place] later for [friend’s] birthday?
    Her: (no response)
    Me: (2 hours later) You’re suck a dick, you know that?
    Her: No No No! I’m sorry … are you going there???
    Me: (2 hours later) Yeah, and I think you should come too.

    Controlling? Yes. Being a jerk to her? Yes, because I’ve had enough of her lame shit and I’m not tolerating it anymore. She spent a good portion of the night trying to get my attention, in which I ignored her ass.


  47. on October 24, 2010 at 3:44 am Citizen Rogaine

    How about the 1 commandment of ‘FUG’ being instituted? Yeah, it’s a little Nazi/Sanger-ish but, do we really need fugly guys scoring poon and creating more fugly women and men? Is THIS the ultimate game tactic? To put more FUG genetics into the already FUGGED up gene pool?


    I say, tell all ugly men to give up and masturbate and play their world of warcraft and leave their semen out of the damned species.

    We need more UGLY like we need a hole in the head.

    Please, people. Stop teaching ugly fucks game. It’s pathetic and will definitely ruin our species.

    Think about it, idiots.

    (Sorry if you’re ugly, but, that’s how life is. Ugly means your facial and bodily proportions are out of whack which means you are not good mating material…):

    The fact that you ugly whiners and complainers ignore that simple fact is pathetic.

    Own up to your part of the equation and make yourself irrelevant if you look like a troll. And, don’t go making babies with fellow trolls as a desperate attempt at procreation. Just STOP. The world doesn’t want a bunch of ugly fuckers. Got it?



  48. on October 24, 2010 at 4:15 am Turd of Misery


    If you knew anything about game or the teachings of this site, you would well know that guys learning game are *not* looking to have children.

    Go cram some gravel up your butt and stop wasting our time



  49. @xsplat. “I honest don’t care” – any time anyone starts a sentence with

    “I honestly…”
    “To be honest…”
    “To tell the truth…”

    They’re not being honest, 99% of the time. They’re telling an outright lie. Women can easily pick this up too. She’ll know if she’s rattled you. Men project onto women their austicky piss-poor ability to perceive these subtexts


  50. on October 24, 2010 at 8:16 am Vincent Ignatius

    A posted a good example of a girl who was testing me right before sex. I was about to leave the country in a week, and not return for 7 weeks.

    C: I don’t feel right going further without being in a committed relationship.
    VI: So you’re saying you want to be my girlfriend?
    C: No, not yet, but maybe when you get back.
    VI: So are you afraid of the competition from other girls while I’m traveling?
    C: Well, you’re an attractive guy. You might come back and be like, “I found a girl, I don’t want you anymore.”
    VI: Yeah, I’m all about spreading my seed. I’m going to have a baby in every country.

    I banged her that night.

    Earlier that day she threw this shit test at me when I was arranging our date for the night over chat.

    VI: We can drive together. Get to my place about 7.
    5 mins
    C: Oh, I invited my friend Katie so we’re going to drive together. I hope you’re not too upset. 🙂
    10 mins
    VI: I’m not driving alone. Have to go. Gym time.
    C: Okay…well, I can drive you!
    2 hours
    VI: Nah, you guys have fun.

    I made her go without me and then she came to my house after for some deep dicking.


  51. Me loves it! Beautiful. That “i hate u” one was too great. It is always girlcode talk.


  52. on October 24, 2010 at 8:50 am Timothy Webster


    Actually, some guys here are looking to have kids, etc. Feminism has hit the breeders harder than the playboys. As Roissy says, big corrections are in the offing. Hopefully it doesn’t drag on as long as it did last time this happened, during the fall of the Roman empire.


  53. on October 24, 2010 at 11:34 am Gunslingergregi

    Dam when you are doing good you better take advantage it doesn’t last.

    Life is definetly a shit test.


  54. Most of the commenters here mix their good advice with bits of bragging and bravado. These men should realize that bragging automatically turns away most neutral obsevers. Is this a good or a bad thing?


  55. Legion

    @xsplat. “I honest don’t care” – any time anyone starts a sentence with

    “I honestly…”
    “To be honest…”
    “To tell the truth…”

    They’re not being honest, 99% of the time. They’re telling an outright lie. Women can easily pick this up too. She’ll know if she’s rattled you. Men project onto women their austicky piss-poor ability to perceive these subtexts

    I wonder if you read the post in the spirit it was written. Do you recall me writing “it’s all in the delivery”?

    But perhaps you are just trying to find fault with the concept?

    I see your general principle of prefacing a phrase with “to be honest”. To me it’s always meant that the speaker is a habitual lier, otherwise they would have no use using the phrase.

    It’s all in the delivery.

    Here is a phrase I’ve used countless times. “I really, truly, deeply, honestly don’t care.”, said with slow, deliberate and and emphatic tone.

    You may be right that this sets off the woman wondering if you care or not. Doesn’t matter. Point is you are rattling her, she isn’t rattling you. You are playing her. She becomes the puppet.


  56. Samseau said:

    Most of the commenters here mix their good advice with bits of bragging and bravado.

    You see bragging and bravado; I see descriptions of outcome from application of game.

    What I have found interesting is that this is the sort of post that normally garners a hundred-plus comments within a day. Here we sit at around fifty. What gives?


  57. I agree, this site (along with others you’ve linked – rooshv for example) have helped change my mind (and others who read). After a few short weeks of reading some exchanges you’ve posted Ive slowly been changing how I view my exchanges with women and its working – very cool.

    It interesting that some men in the DC area I know of dislike the roissy blog. And consider him to be the M word. Its mainly the romantics who have a different view of game – and very little of PUAs in the area.

    Is a man really a misogynist if he inspires a woman to not act the way she does towards lesser men but act like a woman/feminine around him? She calls and gets frustrated around him, calls him and wants to be around him…is that really him being the big bad M word? no….

    **passes beer to roissy** Thanks for the insight


  58. Eternal Solipsism of the Female Mind v.8,936,724,015

    Tubby Taiwanese tart marries…. herself.


  59. Off topic. I just read this on another forum. Genders have been omitted, and it was posted anonymously, so I’m not sure if it’s a pussy phagotron beta male or a fugly girl in love with an alpha.

    “I am completely obsessed with someone. It is getting really concerning. My whole mood depends on their Facebook status updates, what they’re doing, whether they talk to me, etc. It’s an extreme version of this. I just cannot shake this person off no matter how hard I try. The thought of losing contact with them breaks my heart but I doubt they’re interested in being with me. I mean nothing to them and it’s led to me feeling utterly worthless. Sometimes they will say or do something that I interpret as a sign of affection for me but then I see their Facebook photos and they’re out having fun without a care in the world while I stay indoors unable to basically function without them in my life. In a way it makes me jealous that they have loads of friends and are having loads of fun. “Why don’t you care about me? All these beautiful people you are with….of course you don’t care about me ”

    I don’t even need a romantic relationship, I just want companionship. I want to be with this person all the time, I want to be near them always. It is an obsession, an addiction. It’s more intense than any drug I’ve ever taken. It’s not romantic, it is ugly. It is ****ing painful. I do not know how much longer I can live with these feelings of shame, worthlessness and frustration. I need this person. They mean everything to me. I am so confused I don’t know what to do next. I am in a lot of pain right now and I am feeling like suicide is the most attractive option. It sounds extreme but I really have reached that point.

    Why don’t I just ask this person if they feel the same? The fear of rejection is too strong. I’d rather be stabbed a thousand times than face rejection. Why don’t I just block this person out of my life? Because I see them regularly and even if I could do this I feel like my life without them at all would be nearly as bad as the state I am in now. It is an addiction and I am completely hooked.

    Has anybody got any kind of solution? I feel like I’m done for. Like demons have taken my mind and I just cannot carry on any more. I feel like I am losing my sanity a bit. Every moment is focused on this person, even my dreams. It is awful. I don’t even think being with this person could be healthy because it would just make me more possessive. I feel like an evil person for feeling so possessive.”


  60. Carl–

    I just took a gander at your quantcast.

    WTF did you post on 8/15/10?

    The high spike was probably on Aug 12 for the Chateau post that Joe refers to above: “The Difficulty Of Gaming Women By Age Bracket”


  61. on October 24, 2010 at 5:36 pm anonymouses anonymous

    Here’s where speed dating is good: in 60 minutes, you talk to 10-12 women. In one hour at a bar, usually with a cover charge nearing the price of a speed dating event, you moght talk to 4 women, if you are good.

    At SD, you are one on one from hello. In clubs, you deal with cockblocking pigs who come along to make sure hot girl of the group doesn’t “do anything stupid”. You have other guys trying to move in. You have women who are just out on the town to party with friends. You have the possibility that your cocky funny upsets them and you get shut down.
    At SD, the conversation is pretty easy because the club thrub DJ only plays when it is time to NEXT. In clubs, you rarely get to talk because no matter where you go, the speakers seem to pump noise at decibels louder than a jet with afterburners on the tarmac.

    The negatives of SD:
    Sometimes you have to deal with the female trog for four minutes. Clubs allow you to hunt only hotties.

    At SD, you rarely get above an 8. But, in this area, you rarely get above 8 in a club.
    At SD, the women are pretty sober. At clubs, after 11:30, the women are feeling easier and are willing to talk.
    At SD, four minutes is rarely enough time to make an impression. At clubs, if you hook, you can take as much time as needed.

    Now, 6% is average. The right way is to diversify. Speed date, go online, hit the clubs, go to the quieter places. That brings your chances up to 18%. Do that every night, and you’ll get laid once a week, with the possibility of finding a longer lasting relationship, and until you do, you are still getting laid.


  62. Xsplat—

    @CW—“Good response to ‘i hate you’ is simply ‘god you’re sexy when you’re angry!’ 😉

    Better response: “I don’t care.”
    Even better: “I honestly don’t care.”
    It’s in the delivery though. You have to mean it – mean that what you want from the girl is her lust and attentive behavior, and that her anger makes next to no difference to you. Its her submission and your control over her and her lust that matters. Or what we usually call “love”.

    Or a simple “ehh” accompanied by a shrug of the shoulders. After doing that or your variations a few times, the transition to her replacing “I hate you” with “you’re such an asshole” can be hastened by responding “of course you do” with a smirk.


  63. The general attitude to bring to shit tests is bemused aloofness or mastery. The back story to keep in mind is that you know what’s going on more than she does. You aren’t trying to prove yourself to her. She has to prove herself to you.

    You do need to DHV from time to time, but not in response to shit tests. Instead do it while telling stories, or having friends build you up (reciprocally), and so on


  64. Everytime she asks you a question or makes a statement where she wants to gauge your reaction is a shit test? How are you to spot shit tests if everything she says and does is done to gauge a reactiin/response=everything is a shit test? Or am I delusional.


  65. Shit tests are challenges often in the form of questions or requests.

    Anything which feels like she’s trying to throw you on the defensive, or do favors for her at least unless she’s done more for you, is a shit test.


  66. A list of sluts. Most of them ugggggggggggggggggggggly. Our favorite girl Jessica “Here are my husband’s balls” Valenti makes the list.


  67. “Science
    I’d say I was a lesser alpha to begin with, but this site has made my game, and my general manliness, increase infinitely.”



  68. I have been practicing my game … and then not practicing my game, for about three years with my current girlfriend. I was real good in the beginning, but soon I begin to beta-out, and then the shit tests restarted.

    We’re a little bit older. She’s 50 now (ancient by Roissy standards, but whatever) and I’m a few years younger. She is an excellent candidate to practice game on, because she:

    (1) she was a 10 in her younger days and peaked late — knockout gorgeous well into her 40s (showing a few signs of age now but will still age well) (and yes I know Roissy won’t believe me, but to each his own)

    (2) she was a TV anchor for 20 years in her city, so is the masturbatory fantasy for an entire generation of men there, and

    (3) she was married to a super-alpha, so she’s used to serious game. (Seriously — I’ve never seen anyone pass shit tests like this guy. He doesn’t even think about it — it’s just out of his mouth and everyone’s laughing at her. And not a hint of bitterness or anger. She’s laughing most of the time.)

    This girl has an entitlement complex, but also a down-to-earth side. And there’s this pressure. When I fail the shit tests, she runs all over me. When I pass, she goes down on me for so long I tell her the man union lets me have a 15 minute break. (Seriously, she sucked me to three straight orgasms — without a break in between.) Alpha behavior is richly rewarded; beta behavior is horrifically punished. It’s like a Pavlovian experiment in game.

    Still, I’m not quite getting it. I need to get more outside interests and keeping falling into oneitis. You have no idea how many times I’ve had to use the walkaway to get her attention … although, usually when I walk away I actually mean it.

    Anyway, this blog has saved my ass more times than I can count. I just wish I wasn’t such a slow learner.



  69. on October 24, 2010 at 10:53 pm The Real Vince

    Me “That’s because they think of you as the little girl you once were and not the woman you’ve become”

    Someone told me about a concert where Marilyn Manson opened for Trent Reznor. Manson looks out into the crowd and says, “I’m gonna make all you sixth grade girls feel like eighth grade girls.”


  70. Two unrelated things.

    @ Roissy: Please please please write a guide to getting good at game. What are the best materials, how many approaches, best ways to practice outside of sarging, helpful extracurriculars, etc etc.

    @ Gorb: I live in the University of Toronto hub and I invariably see a lot of asians, especially of the FOB variety. Here’s my question: how come over half of the chinese guys I see with good looking chinese chicks reek of betatude? They have needy body language, aren’t good looking, and don’t look particularly charming. I’m racking my brains as to what they’ve got going for them. Also, since I’ve never been with a fob girl before, I’m curious as to how the kino should proceed. What am I aiming for per meeting, and how fast is ideal? (for example, if I haven’t done___ this her by the ___th meeting, I am creeping into LJBF zone).


  71. so what about when the woman gives you a shit test and you tell them, basically, to shove their shit tests up their ass?

    and instead of getting wet and horny, they get mad at you and stop talking to you?

    ive had this happen. while i might have wound up alone, ive congratulated myself for speaking my mind.

    but in my more insecure moments, i think: “did I sound like a sniveling beta when i told that girl where to get off?”


  72. on October 25, 2010 at 5:57 am almost 40 year old virgin

    They´re AWESOME!

    I try to fail every single one of them spectacularly. The ones from women. Many men have become so cuntified they are aping the “better sex”.

    THAT´S the reason why I love this blog.

    Where in my earlier decades the feminist brainwashing induced basic betatude/nice guy subservience inadvertently helped me attain the above “nom de plume”, I NOW understand better how to efficiently avoid wasting time on females(the actual lesser sex) and how to deal with the manginas and white knights of our failing society.
    Who are the enablers and real problems we all have.
    PUAs btw are just a subset of the above.

    So be happy to game the current feminism induce fuck-all wonderland. Waste your precious time on sniffing around all these useless cunts.
    This man has better things to do.


  73. Snafu, depends on delivery. Keep in mind that they often are not aware they shit test. Thus your reaction may seem rude and they get indignant by the “false” accusation.

    If I encounter excessive STs, I say looking straight into their eyes “That’s a game I won’t play”, and consequent attempt with “That’s another game I won’t play”.

    It is not accusatory, and it usually has their hamsters plugged in trying to parse that. I leave them to their hamster after the second time, departing their company, before they manage to utter something rude, though I often hear a faint “asshole” behind my back.

    This is kind of a sigma approach. Don’t be surprised if/when they see you next time, some of them may become quite sweet and keen to get your attention.


  74. On another thread, Randall Parker just wrote that men with managerial experience will see female flakers in the same light as they see the people they’ve had to fire in the careers and/or planning to fire soon.

    Inability to return a phone call or show up as promised is the type of behavior that would get anyone fired quickly.

    Feminism’s worst aspect (if there is just one) is the one that tells women not to accept any responsibility to behave like adults (or competent children).

    The question of how harshly a man should react to what should be non-tolerable (and often inhuman) flaking would be a function of how feminized the local culture is. In a non-feminist culture, a man can easily shame a flake into conforming to basic norms of human interaction (such as sometimes answering the fucking phone when called and/or calling someone back + arriving on dates).

    US feminists teach young women to run away when they’ve been made to feel “uncomfortable” so this teaches young women not to accept criticism for their actions. The book “The Rules” taught women that they’d more likely be proposed to if they flaked a lot (refused to accept any dates after Wednesday).

    Since I started reading this blog, I’ve gotten better at conducting often-necessary non-playful negs and being an “authority figure” when dressing down the kind of flake I experience every two weeks (anyone conducting PUA at a good pace should meet at least two gorgeous flakes per month).

    I may be able to better dress down flakes in the non-feminist culture I’m living in (Eastern Europe) than one can do the same in the USA, but I think the following advice would apply to dealing with flakes in the US right now:

    The host forgot in the above post to mention that all of these young males would be operating under a regime where a young woman had given them her phone number but then REFUSED TO ANSWER VOICE CALLS.

    These men are betas if they’re simply writing “gay” to a flake who would otherwise have answered the phone and talked to him for an hour and agreed by voice to another date that she would show up for because he is now her friend and not just a cool texter she’s flirted with.

    Keep this in mind: Women are probably 10 times more likely to flake on a date agreed to by text than after a good 10+ minute voice conversation on the phone.

    You can bank on that statistic being close to the truth.

    Assuming, necessarily, that all of the “alphas” represented in the post were previously told by the females “Sorry, but I can only communicate with you by text (I won’t answer voice calls from you or unknown numbers),” then the 1st Flake these women conducted was when they said that.

    So the guy who wrote “gay” needed to have written that after he was told by the female that she’d previously stated by text that she wouldn’t ever answer voice phone calls from him.

    This means that after she flaked a 2nd time by canceling a first date, he would have had to have gotten either more harsh or he would already be at the point where he’d have “walked to preserve his dignity”.

    That is, if he ever wanted to get laid as opposed to “preserving his dignity”.

    Now part of the 5% disagreement I have with the host’s philosophy is that I totally disagree with the idea that any man should “walk to preserve his dignity” when there’s a 50% chance he can nail a flake by dressing her down effectively and getting her to apologize for her behavior and start treating him like a human being.

    Before text existed, flaky women who gave their phone numbers to men often spent a lot of time and energy AVOIDING his calls (avoiding coming to the phone while having family or roommates say “she’s not home”, etc). Back then in prehistory (before 2005) there was no way for a man to dress down a flake and get her to change her mind on how to treat him (unless he sent a few emails and she answered and a back and forth by email resulted).

    The great thing about text is, when a woman now stonewalls a guy’s voice phone calls, he can convince her to like him via texts.

    In my experience, however, short ones don’t fill the bill (others’ mileage may vary on short texts).

    This is what I did recently with success after a 19 year old stood me up on a second date attempt after canceling the first date attempt:

    Her (3 hours after standing me up): I’m so sorry but, after arriving home from university tonight, I just fell asleep and slept through our meeting.

    Me (an hour later): Are you just socially inept or are you deliberately trying to be an asshole?

    Her: No! 🙂

    Me (half an hour later – I’d given her opportunity to explain herself more or reschedule): Well I’d have to admit that I’ve never seen you say, write or do anything intelligent in the little time I’ve known you. Looks without brains isn’t a great combination.


    Me: (half an hour after that): I guess the answer is that you are both socially inept AND trying to be an asshole.


    (Two Days Later)

    Me: Why did you bother giving me your phone number in the first place? How many more years do you think men will bother to try to get to know you, 2 or 3? Good looks don’t last long you know.

    Her (15 minutes later): If you feel that way about me, why have you been calling and texting me?

    Me: I’ve told you before that its totally because of your looks. Its a travesty that you’re by far the best looking woman in this city. A nicer girl should have had your body.

    Her (flattered somehow): I’m having problems now and that’s why I couldn’t meet.

    Me (bluffing): If its financial problems, I can probably help.

    Her: Thank you, but my problem is with the university.

    Me: Course work? I write papers for you and do your homework in the following subjects: (listed subjects).

    Her: Of what you listed, XYZ Language is something I could use help with.

    Two days later at 01:30 in the morning:

    Her: I have two assignments to do in XYZ language.

    Me: I’m sleeping. But, OK, I can meet you at such and such restaurant at 13:00 to do that.

    Her: OK. See you then.

    The Bottom Line: Flaky women want to be abused for their behavior. Give them their wish. Abuse them. Fire away instead of walking away.


  75. @Snafu

    In other words, you had the right attitude but your delivery was probably off. You want to be authoritative and unemotional. She will get mad at you and maybe not speak with you a few days. But, if you have her cell phone number, you can send more texts later that she might start arguing with (defending herself over), saying for instance “I really missed our date because I really fell asleep. I wasn’t trying to be an asshole. I swear it”.

    This would result in her basically apologizing for her behavior and starting to act human.

    Timing and delivery are everything when you confront a woman for flaky behavior.

    The important thing to remember is that it is often best to confront and argue, often by text (which is all she’ll allow you to use until she stops being a flake), then to simply walk away and never get her into bed as a result.

    A big goal for any man dealing with a flake is to finally establish that she will answer her phone by voice.

    Men who prefer texting over voice communication are begging for women to flake. The level of loyalty a woman feels for a voice buddy is well above the loyalty she would feel for a cool hand luke texter.


  76. Back in prehistory (before texting) a man might find himself having to explain to a woman’s mother, sister or roommate about how she needed to stop flaking (not taking or returning voice calls).

    Back then it could be a matter of how well he established rapport with that person.

    Once, however, a cougar mother tried to get me to go out with her and forget the daughter. She ended up being of no help.

    So texting has really been a net plus for males despite the fact that an alpha should not allow a woman to relegate him to text-only status.


  77. Gold digger shit-tests. I recently met a blatant gold digger. She was all over me because I had a wad of cash on me. She then discovered that I live in a nice house in an affluent area. I played along with her bs, pretending to fall for her shit. She is also an attention/fashion hor who thinks she’s all that. I took her to my place and let the aura of having money do the gaming for me. I then banged her and unceremoniously kicked her to the curb. Needless to say, miss fashionista gold digger attention whore is now livid with anger.


  78. Over the weekend, this is what happened.

    My new guy said as we were going out…..
    Him:”Hey, don’t you think you’ll be cold wearing this?”
    Me: “We’re not going to walk around all day!”
    Him:”I’m going to be pushing you out of the car….(smirk on his face)”
    Me:”lol !!!!!!” That’s a good one!!! I like it!!1 hahahhaha!!

    We both laughing!!!

    What do you call this exchange?


  79. Southern Man said: What I have found interesting is that this is the sort of post that normally garners a hundred-plus comments within a day. Here we sit at around fifty. What gives?

    Maybe all the previous bits of advice are working so well that many of the readers are actually out there living the life they want instead of writing about it online. 😛


  80. on October 25, 2010 at 9:36 am too late for romance

    inpt said:

    Lesson Learned?

    Women are nuts. So play that musical instrument how it was designed to be played.

    Excellent analogy.


  81. Telegraph article says scientists have found that males brought up in a female household are less likely to attract females:

    The study was done with rats.


  82. males brought up in a female household are less likely to attract females:

    The other day I saw an illustration of this. I went to a park and had a football with me. There was a kid around ten kinda hanging around, and he asked me if we could play catch. I said “sure” and started throwing the ball with him.

    Immediately, it became apparent that the kid is a single-mother child. First, he latched on to me like he’s never seen an adult male in his life. He was clearly estrogen-poisoned and needed fresh air. Even after we were done throwing the ball, he sat aroudn like he hoped we’d get back to it.

    Two, he nad no friggin idea how to throw and catch a football. In throwing, he’d wind up like he’s gonna cannon-arm it 100 yards, but his wind-up looked goofy, and the ball twirled 100 yards over his head and two yards forward. In catching, he was scared of the ball, more like slapping it away than trying to catch it, no matter how softly I lopped it.

    I felt sorry for him and gave him some pointers, and it helped considerably.


  83. NYT has an article about Millionaire Matchmaker, where the host debunks the “The Rules” advice on not returning calls.

    Today, Women are advised to always, always return calls. There is no excuse for it; no red blinking light on cassette answer machine, or vmail, or roomate, etc.

    Its going to be like using a telgram or postcard or pigeons or smoke signals to repsond, if you dont return a call soon. Uncoolness, not logic/game, will shame/change them.



    U need to address flaking, its basically at epic proportions, Women can pull a flake, 12h, 6 hr, or 1 hr before any meeting.

    Replying is not a shit test.

    Its russian roulette: win/lose, lay or spray, or more flaking.

    I have found flaking with notice, or none, not showing up with txt 20-60min late the wost.


    -“You are not hot enough to flake this badly”
    -“Buy me steak dinner”
    -“Come over 4 69” <— #/txt slip can be explained
    -Delete #

    I have a 27 year old (7) who txted 20 min late:

    -to ask for a reschedule,
    -then " r u still there",
    -to " i was with a vendor, couldnt leave"
    -3 calls, i ignored
    -" I am here, where r u", 45 mins later (1 hr late)

    I left at 20min mark, exactly.

    Now over 3 weeks:

    1-Apology email, admitting rudeness
    2-"R u never going to talk to me again"
    3-Saying Im rude to ignore her rudeness (or her)

    I offered her treating for steak dinner, or nothing.

    Folding is game gambling, few if any men do it.


  84. I was watching one of those sleazy talk shows one time and it was about these delinquent children whose mostly single mothers couldn’t control them. There was this one really cute southern boy who was major trouble. They brought in a marine drill sergeant to try and straighten him and the other kids out. He would shout at the kids, “Do you want me to be your Daddy?” Most of them answered, “no”, terrified of him. I remember this little boy answered “yes” and when the marine asked him why he said, “I ain’t got no daddy.”


  85. I remember this little boy answered “yes” and when the marine asked him why he said, “I ain’t got no daddy.”

    “A boy needs a daddy”
    – Faster Pu..ycat

    House of Pain


  86. “males brought up in a female household are less likely to attract females:”

    Male brought up in a female house hold (with a father) will more likely KNOW what a woman wants. He will more likely know how to play ( through passive aggressive means) woman, for he had to survive the constant demands and smothering placed on him. He will more likely seek freedom and therefore in someone less likely to be in a LtR. He could be very charming–another survival skill acquired to avoid demands placed on him. The guy could grow up to be an alpha with a very smooth game.


  87. The more women (mom, sisters) he grew up with the better he is at his game. He NEEDS to be.


  88. “what,” you do have a point but I wonder how much of that is simply the boy’s genetic material – single mothers select for charming unreliable partenrs to begin with. In the case of a boy whose mother divorced her normal husband, the boy ends up being crippled by the lack of male presence. He might still develop charm and understanding of the female as a defensive mechanism, but on the other hand, he might mot, and instead just grow up confused.


  89. Don’t forget the father. It depends how his father deals with the women in the house hold. The kids will observe and learn from father also. If there is no father, he will more likely NEED to be MORE charming to get what he wants.


  90. PA,

    I think in that case the other male figures will play an important role. His friends, uncles, grandfather, etc…..alll of them can influence him. It’s all probabilities not certainties though.


  91. PA,
    Sure genetic play apart. Don’t ask me how much–no idea. I believe everything are only influenced not determined. It’s an internal choice. Sure our choices are influenced, but still not determined.


  92. I agree. And probabilities-wise, all else being equal, odds are on single moms creating more awkward and socially inept boys like the one I threw the football with, than slick willy Bill Clintons.


  93. PA,
    lol!!! yeah! Poor single parent boys, they are at an disadvantage. BUT….anything is possible. I have hope.

    As for Bill…..he is keeping his pants on? maybe not!! hahah!!


  94. on October 25, 2010 at 12:08 pm rebelliousvanilla

    Josh, speed dating studies show that roughly 60% of Asian women and 80% of white women are unwilling to date outside their race. Also, I suppose that a lot of the Asian women are taught to select men that would make good dads, not cads.


  95. PA,

    one more thing….I bet you it meant A LOT to the boy you played ball with. He will remember you.


  96. @What

    Males raised with lots of females around can get overly used to having pre-selection work for them in gaining acceptance.

    This leaves the male temporarily hobbled when he arrives in an environment where pre-selection doesn’t exist.

    This isn’t anything a few years can’t cure however. The rats in the study lived very short lives.


  97. Jerry

    On another thread, Randall Parker just wrote that men with managerial experience will see female flakers in the same light as they see the people they’ve had to fire in the careers and/or planning to fire soon.

    I had a girl flake on me and become unavailable. One month later she calls and tries to meet up. Told her no, because she had flaked. She insisted, told her no, I have a girlfriend. She then texts me saying she ran away from home, and can I give her work. Texted one word “no”. She begged. “No, because you are unreliable”.

    This was the same chick who kept questioning me about marriage and babies on the first date.

    It’s attitude like that makes my dick soft. She and her pussy can go rot in pussy hell.


  98. Jerry what the fuck, are you taking the piss?
    Your responses were wordy as hell, reeked of scorned anger. “Gay” is infinitely better; shows you don’t give a shit, like you shouldn’t, because you have a ton of girls to choose from. If one flakes, so what, next.
    You offered to help her out financially! and then offered to help her with her university assignments, and THEN she said she’d meet you? Are you serious!


  99. @Xsplat

    In the college town I live in, sometimes a freshman or sophomore needs to become a junior or senior before she’ll date a guy over 30.

    Despite what I said above about being harshly intolerant of flaking behavior, I won’t burn my bridges if I think someone needs to grow up another six months or whatever. Meanwhile, while some people aren’t meant for each other even as friends, common rules of decency should apply to every woman’s behavior (answering the phone, returning a phone call from someone she gave her number to, showing up as promised, etc).


  100. @Jerry
    “The rats in the study lived very short lives.”

    I hope they died a happy death.


  101. Then again, by not “burning bridges” I didn’t mean I wouldn’t have the harsh text conversation I described above. Harsh treatment is what a flake is often begging a man to give her. I’d just forgive an 18 or 19 year old flake quicker than I would a 25 year old flake.


  102. I am commenting on both sexes.

    Flaking is a result of BAD parenting. As children, they suffered no consequences for misbehavior, so as adults they continued misbehaving. I suspect, flaky people are also spoiled and therefore entitled. Tread carefully with these people. Set strict boundaries and limits IF you want to deal with them. Establishing trust will be an issue.


  103. Meanwhile, while some people aren’t meant for each other even as friends, common rules of decency should apply to every woman’s behavior (answering the phone, returning a phone call from someone she gave her number to, showing up as promised, etc).

    On the bell curve of justice appreciation, I rank myself as blase about the concept. I don’t get a boner for retribution. But when a girl is ignoring all rules of human conduct, I am quite happy to pummel her into the earth with deadly accurate insults.


  104. @Jerry, Morsellaux:

    Thanks for the advice.

    I should mention that I prefer talking in person to texting or e-mailing.

    That said, whenever I had to give a lady a verbal smackdown, it was usually by e-mail or text. Whenever she takes too long to answer a time-sensitive request, I’ll say something like “gee, I never thought I’d be cockblocked by an answering machine.” Or: “since when has returning phone calls become illegal? I thought I met a woman the other night, not some plastic voicemail message.”

    Once, I was so pissed off by a lady’s refusal to return a message on time that, after hearing her voicemail message for the umpteenth time, I put the phone up to the toilet, flushed it, and said “honey, either shit or get off the pot.”

    She got off the pot, and a mutual friend later told me that this thoroughly freaked her out. Good. She freaked me out when she wouldn’t get back to me in time. Although she later apologized to me (she was a single mom, so I cut her some slack), we never dated.

    I WILL call a lady out on her bullshit, but my general attitude is not that of the sniveling beta. It’s more like “if you don’t want me, tell me and I’ll gladly step out of the way; I don’t need you that bad.”

    Seems to me a snivelling beta would have been a lot more humbler about it. Which I wasn’t; I wanted to let these girls know that I wasn’t about to be anybody’s footstool. Still…should I have toned it down a little?


  105. “Still…should I have toned it down a little?”


    People have different styles. Personally I have a short temper. I’ve not found this to work against me. In fact it seems to work for me. I can be a motherfucking shit storm of righteous anger.

    It’s always seemed to work well for me.


  106. My concept has always been to be very clear and precise and accurate and constant in doling out rewards and punishments – to constantly mold the mind of the woman.

    I focus on positive feedback, but when the inevitable times for negative feedbacks arrives, there are no limits to what is appropriate. It can be from a mild scowl up to violence. Whatever is needed. That’s up to the girl.

    But I am the one that dictates the bounds of acceptable behavior. Her only choice is to walk or not.


  107. A clear sign that you are disciplining your woman to the correct measure is how she behaves with you in public, and away from you in public. She should glow. She should exude warmth and happiness. She should exude it towards you.

    She should feel confident when among her friends.

    There is no action that is too extreme – you judge by the results. Did you traumatize her and make her lose her self confidence? Then you are doing it wrong. Did you bolster her feeling of belonging to a family, and her rules and roles and value and place in that family? Then you are doing it right.

    Pictures of the two of you should show obvious delight.

    If those are the results, then whatever you are doing is fine. You can blow up like an atom bomb at times.


  108. Also, nothing will make a girl cleave to you more than breaking up with her.

    Taking no shit takes things to a whole new level.

    At this point I’m dating a girl who swore she would never fuck until married, and I’m in a non-exclusive sexual relationship with her. She knows I’ve been seeing other girls while we are together, and doesn’t even complain. How did I pull that off? by breaking up with her over her sexuality sucking so bad. She couldn’t stop loving me, and so now everything is on my terms.

    And the feedback loop is that having hand makes her love me more. The more hand I have, the more dominant I can become, the more she loves me.

    Of course, I have to bring her overall pleasure and be a net positive that she can’t conceive of being without.


  109. @Snafu

    If there’s the slightest chance that you’re not being flaked on, any confrontation other than a one-word line like “gay” will be seen as Bitter Beta and possibly fatal to your getting into a relationship.

    Its no use getting an apology if the method of getting it was crass, such as recording a toilet flushing. Then she might only apologize to avoid being stalked by a crazy guy.

    However, if a man knows he’s being badly flaked on, because he’s being stood up a second time or because the woman has made it clear she won’t take voice calls from him but “only texts”, then its Beta not to dress her down.

    His reaction has to be cool but harsh (easily done without appearing bitter) and, no, one word texts are not going to cut it at that point.


    You clearly live in feminist America where following the woman’s rules is necessary or else you’ll be shamed as “bitter”. I stand by my statement that women who seriously flake on men want to be abused by a man who will stand up to them.

    There’s nothing bitter about saying “Are you just socially inept or are you deliberately trying to be an asshole”.

    While I agree with 90% of what the host writes, the idea of “walking away to preserve one’s dignity” or because the 2nd best looking woman in the room might be available is gay to me.

    Also, what works for me and others who take no shit from flakers might be something to study. There are different strategies that work in different situations.

    As I said above, the one word response is good for the first flake a girl makes if the guy is not sure its really a flake. But, if the woman continues to flake, it should be clear that the one word texting strategy was useless.

    I consider the first flake in the above scenarios to have been when the woman presumably forced the guy into “text only” communication. I noted above that, if the woman had written “I can only communicate with you by text”, the man could have written “gay” as a response.

    But even then, a few hours later that guy should write “Seriously, when’s a good time to call?”

    and if she flakes on that, he might as well write

    “We didn’t agree when I took your number that I’d be relegated to text only status.”

    Because not talking on the phone when there seems to be a problem is lame.

    That’s not bitter. Its simply not letting the woman write the rules. If she’s going to be a feminist and say “Fuck you, I’m writing the rules here”, then a guy has good reason to walk away.

    If you’re living in feminist America and you know the local feminists won’t put up with men balking at the woman’s rules…don’t try to suggest that playing a flake’s game is normal behavior outside of feminist strongholds.

    And fuck the idea of brevity in all cases. Sure, it can work in certain circumstances but if a word doesn’t get a point across, then you won’t be getting your point across and you won’t be getting laid with that woman.

    And most flaky women are too stupid to understand a point implied in a single word.

    They’re also too stupid to think about your “nonchalance” over the next days and weeks and suddenly start pursuing you. Flaky women are more like cows. You have to lead them. They’ll forget whats going on from one minute to the next otherwise.

    If a woman continues to flake in the days after one word nonchalant texts have been “successfully” implemented, it means the one liner strategy isn’t working.

    By definition, walking away from a 10 doesn’t get one laid with the 10 at hand, unless you run into each other a lot such as on a campus.

    My experience as an older man who cuts an authority figure, says that the best strategy in the event of flaky behavior from a 18-21 year old girl is to firmly let her know she’s not behaving responsibly.

    Women do not often take the lead and certainly rarely because a guy they were flaking on last week didn’t seem to care one way or the other.

    Now when I finally got the woman above to behave like a normal human being (after I told her she was socially inept, an asshole and dumb as a bunch of rocks all of which was written “nonchalantly” as opposed to “bitterly”), she came back with a more honest but lame “I can’t meet with you now because I have problems”.

    When a woman says that line about having problems she’s still more or less lying but at least she’s no longer leading a man on.

    A good response to that is to say you’ll help solve those problems (even if you’re bluffing). Otherwise its checkmate for the man. He would have to let her go off to solve her own problems (which may only be that she wasn’t attracted to him and didn’t find him of any use in her life).

    One does what’s necessary to keep the ball rolling. Notice I left two days between harsh negs and another two days for her to contact me about meeting to discuss her foreign language homework. I was harsh but not bitter and my willingness to let days go by showed about as much nonchalance as was necessary while keeping the ball rolling.

    Each man can follow his own strategies, but if a non-chalant one word text kind of guy isn’t getting into relationships with 9s and 10s but instead “walking away” from gorgeous flakes and ending up with more “reasonable” 7s and 8s, I’d say he might consider a new strategy.

    A flaky 10 in bed is better than a reasonable 8.


  110. @Hot Karl

    Whether the gold digger liked you for money or not, the bottom line for you was how great her body was, how much you enjoyed the sex and whether or not you felt fear that she might have a disease.

    If you’d have enjoyed a second round of sex, your being rude to her would be like cutting off your nose to spite your own face.

    Some guys here feel too much animosity toward mercenaries and guys who would take advantage of them. There’s a difference between paying for a female stranger’s drinks, which is stupid and Beta if she’s not even giving you her phone number for that, and getting what you want because you manipulated one of the majority of women who can be manipulated on the subject of money (in the end the guy who gets the best looking women is the Alpha).

    I did something like you did with that woman last year. A guy introduced me to a very hot but not so bright 19 year old. After sex I sent her home and foolishly told my friend the next day that we’d had sex. It got back to her and she hated me for betraying her like that. I didn’t care until I realized a little while later that she had been damned hot and I should not have burned my bridges.


  111. Jerry…

    well, in my case, with the whole toilet-flushing thing, we had been going back and forth all week…she would call back, with a “let me check my schedule.” keeping in mind that she was a single mom, i just went with it.

    but then the crunch time came. here it was thursday afternoon and i STILL didn’t know what the friday night plans were. she couldnt be reached by phone, and didnt even try to reach me. and there were some other things i could have been doing. so, out of frustrated anger, i left a detailed message about how i didnt like being kept waiting, and wouldnt do the same to her. i kept my cool and didnt raise my voice, but i did try to get my point across.

    that’s when i told her to shit or get off the pot (with the sound effects to go along with it). why wait 4 days to get a five-minute reply?


  112. One of the cornerstones of feminism is making sure men are shamed into not ever criticizing female behavior.

    At least, with the above post about a guy writing “gay” (which means “lame” in American slang), the host was saying that a guy should make a small attempt (some might call it feeble) to confront a flake for bad behavior. In one word the guy who wrote “gay” put the woman on notice that he didn’t buy her dishonest behavior…however…

    If you look carefully, the woman *refused* to acknowledge she was being dressed down and certainly made no attempt at apologizing or rescheduling the date.

    Again: she refused to acknowledge his displeasure and refused to reschedule or agree to speak on the phone.

    If she were an 8 or less, the guy would just move on to other women and she might come crawling back. I’d personally have nothing to do with an 8 or less who’d ever flaked on me.

    If she were an entitled 9 or 10, a small “confrontation” like the “gay” exchange above would likely mean nothing to her – especially unacknowledged – unless the guy was physically great looking and she’d been itching for a hookup anyway. That’s a reality. He might shrug his shoulders and go date less attractive women but he could be thinking of her when he thumps them.

    Young 9s and 10s have the power in this world, whether men feign nonchalance or not.

    For most guys who don’t look like studs, after 24-48 hours, the guy who wrote “gay” might have to send the entitled 9 or 10 another one worder like “lame” – which, like my wordier negs, would provoke the woman into a “fight” (fast flying exchange of texts many of them longer than one word in order to get the point across). In my experience, this “fight” mostly results in the woman not flaking anymore (then again, I’ve had no contact with feminists in more than 7 years).

    @Snafu: you might not want to ask a woman to compare dating you with going to the latrine. 😉 The phrase “fish or cut bait” would have been better (and texts are more likely to be answered these days than voice mails). I also wouldn’t pressure a woman for a specific answer on a specific date as if it just had to be that Friday night. With a 9 or 10 flake, I’d be looking to reestablish attraction and respect for each other (which would result in a phone conversation which is what the two people should have had in the first place).

    Remember: a date made by text has a much higher chance of being flaked on compared with a date made by phone. A man on voice speaking terms with a woman is much more valued by the woman than those she bans to the underworld of texting.

    Texting is a great invention but, if a woman relegates a man to text-only communication, she’s already disrespecting the man big-time and flaking big-time.


  113. I haven’t dated a woman using the English language in several years. Nothing I’ve ever provided as an example on this forum was written that way originally.


  114. @Jerry

    I see your point however I got no room for a blatant Gold digger. They need to be pump and dumped, and I simply don’t have the time or energy to devote more that a little splooge on them. Fawk that, they’re boring


  115. Jerry, jesus christ you’re so wordy, you write such bloated, fluffy, vacuous streams of bland, boring text. Sharpen it up a bit.

    As for “You clearly live in feminist America” – I’m from Europe.
    Plus you ignored everything I said. my point was specifically this: You actually offered to help her in both her assignments and her finances! For fuck’s sake dude YOU’RE BEING USED.

    Then again if you’re just trying to get a pity-bang from her, fair enough.


  116. @Legion

    You’re out of league trying to argue a Beginners PUA Playbook theme where you’re repeating simplistic stuff that shouldn’t be taken out of the original context you learned it in.

    You’re thinking of the simplistic “do not pay for drinks at a bar” lesson in the first chapter of any beginners handbook – which doesn’t really apply to my helping a woman with her homework.

    At the lower level you’re writing on the subject, I can go on for days on this and get the last word.

    First, you need to go back and read (notice) that I was showing how I moved a conversation from “I can’t meet with you now because I’ve got a lot of problems” to “You can help me with my language assignment”.

    If you call helping a student with her homework “being used”…you’ll probably not be getting laid a lot in your life because you’d have to have an extremely narrow range of defining “what’s a cool way to relate to chicks”.

    If you can’t learn from my taking a “I can’t meet” situation into a “Let’s meet” situation, good luck.

    But where you’re really going to miss out on most chances of getting laid is if you take a socialist feminist stance on the concept of mercenary behavior of females. Have you ever been in an American strip bar? I know the Europeans are too faggy and feminist to have lap-dancing joints on every street block which even Bible Belt towns have in the USA.

    You’re a fag if you’d refuse to pay a 10 for a lap-dance out of a sense that “other PUAs are watching you in the audience” and would consider that uncool.

    Don’t miss out on any fun you can have out of a phony sense of ethics, especially if you think its “PUA Ethics” instead of the Feminist Propaganda and/or Social Conservative Mumbo Jumbo that it really is.

    Feminists aren’t only determined to make sure men are seen as “bitter” if they confront bad female behavior, they consider it a top priority to stop men from “exploiting women” by using money in any way to seduce a woman. They literally hang out on this forum to say that’s “Beta” while openly admitting they are feminists here on an agenda to make men behave properly.

    Now I realize that young western European women have their lives paid for by their governments during the period of time that they are most sexually attractive. This means many guys in western Europe have no real option of doing anything but practice Sex and the City game with liberal sluts.

    That’s not how the real world works and, when the European economies finally crash under their socialism, a ton of young western European women (if enough white parents were having kids 18 years before) will be looking for sugar daddies and forgetting the Sex and the City lifestyle.

    Learning how women behave outside of socialism is where you learn how to use game in the real world.

    An example of a simplistic beginners PUA concept that cannot be taken out of its original narrow context is the idea that you should not buy drinks for strangers who give nothing back but conversation. This is sound advice in its narrow context. A man can be used badly by women who have no intention of letting him even number close with them. I think men should be shot for doing this.

    That says ZERO about whether he shouldn’t buy a round of drinks for a bunch of 19 year olds who will all lift their shirts and bras in payment. A man should get a medal for doing this.

    If you don’t see the difference, you don’t understand game and women.

    Lets say you were gaming one of those 19 year olds when the richer guy got her to lift her shirt with her friends. Guess who the Beta is if she and her friends then decide to ditch you and head to the guy’s yacht to party.

    You can say “I was the Alpha because I didn’t have any money and I’m too Alpha to have used it. And I didn’t need that slut anyway. She was a whore for leaving me for him”.

    That is sour grapes. You’d be going home alone or with a less good looking woman that night. You could say “No, I’m an Alpha and I’d get another one just like her”. Not if a richer guy with your level of game steps in on that one.

    How about this: I fuck your girlfriend behind your back for $200. You get that for free. Who’s the Alpha? Are you fucking my girlfriend? No you’re not. I win.

    Having fun with women is not about doing it right according to any rules. Its about being the guy who gets the best looking women.

    If you want to get laid a lot (or hand-jobbed a lot if you’re not into promiscuity), you do whatever it takes and guys with guts go for the 10s, not the 9s and certainly not the 8s or 7s.


    Back to the short line in the field report that you obsessed about:

    I didn’t say I was actually going to help this college student with her finances even though she’s not in a socialist environment where a government is helping her live well while young.

    I bluffed her for a few seconds in what is called Vulnerability Game – I telegraphed that she can see my as a Higher Beta which is what a smart PUA will want to disguise himself as in certain circumstances.

    Vulnerability Game, if you were to read up on it, is great because many women want to see a man exhibit both Beta and Alpha characteristics. It confuses the woman. Makes her feel you might stick around if she got involved with her.

    There is nothing wrong, from a PUA point of view, with suggesting that, if things work out, the woman can end up living with you in your great apartment.

    There are no PUA rules to the contrary. If you think there are, you’re wrong. The conflict of interest that poverty stricken PUA “teachers” have when they condemn the idea of exploiting mercenaries can be discussed in another comment.

    Bottom Line: If you can convince a college student to let you do her homework…that’s not exactly “being used” especially if she’d been seemingly trying to avoid you the week before by flaking via text messaging.

    And helping the above woman with her homework certainly had nothing to do with paying her cash to “exploit’ her.

    Lighten up and relax when you consider doing whatever it takes in game to get from Point A to Point B.

    Don’t worry that you might have just said something Beta to a woman. Vulnerability Game says that can actually add to your value by saying a few Beta things (getting you to point B faster).


  117. My readers are starting to get it. Do you?

    Nope, still not caring enough.


  118. There actually is a reasonable PUA rule against actually allowing a woman to move into your apartment. Suggesting it as a possibility is an entirely different matter.

    There are no legitimate PUA rules against paying for a lap-dance now and then, especially with an amateur who hasn’t done it before.

    If a woman’s friend says to a man “suggest that she can live with you now and she’s yours for the night”, only a fag would bring up some reverse ethical reason not to do so. The fag wouldn’t be avoiding the suggestion because it would be unfair to lie to a woman. He’d be thinking “Gee whiz. Its considered beta at XYZ PUA forum to even suggest to a woman that she might use me. I won’t humiliate myself with all those unseen blog commenters and get laid under these conditions.”



  119. Schfifty?

    Not a shit test–she’s uninterested. Plenty of girls on the girl tree–move on.


  120. Jerry, in the words of Colin Powell, I ain’t reading all that shit.

    Condense it to your main points.

    I fear you have nothing of worth or substance to say, judging by how bloated and dull your writing style is.

    And, you are being used. Helping a girl you haven’t banged with finances, helping her with university assignments, facepalm. This isn’t a “PUA principle” or any shit like that, it’s basic common sense.


  121. @Legion

    You’ve made it clear by your misunderstanding of what I originally wrote that you’re not the type of person who likes to read or has much reading comprehension.

    That said, I think you did read what I just wrote because you’ve provided a debate-ending remark with the deliberate misstatement “you’re helping a girl you haven’t banged.”

    I never said I’d give a woman a dime before getting something in return, nor was the remark about helping meant more seriously than as a way to continue turning a flake into someone who would talk on the phone.

    On the other point, I can’t argue with you because it sounds like you’ve never been to university. If you’ve never gone to a college dorm to “help a woman with her university assignments” than you don’t have much experience in life and probably didn’t go to university.

    Or you’re female.


  122. Something that is a PUA Principle is that you find any good excuse that comes to mind to get a woman to be alone with you or to continue a conversation that’s otherwise in trouble.


  123. Jerry, you must not have several PhDs like I do, nor are you both a brain surgeon and a rocket scientist like I am, because you fail to grasp my point.

    You are too blinded by the light emanating from her pussy flaps to see this with clarity.

    You don’t offer to help a woman with finances and university work, unless she has imbibed multiple gallons of your love juice on a regular basis (if she already has, then ignore everything I am saying). This is counterintuitive, yes. But you’ve gotta trust me on this one.

    You sound like an older guy whose years of ingrained betatude manifests itself through the particular desperation and sourness of the perpetually plotting, unrelaxed, persistent, over-analysing man.


  124. jerry,

    How about this: I fuck your girlfriend behind your back for $200. You get that for free. Who’s the Alpha?

    in that situation?

    i’d have to say that she is

    gogogrrrrrrlllllllllllllllllllll ‘n’ all that shyt


  125. I was just looking at the wives of some of the richest men on Facebook. None higher than a 5. Its like the guys single-mindedly put everything into their careers, including common sense about what they wanted in bed and would want going forward.

    Like the overbloated valuations of some of the companies they bought, they clearly had no understanding of what Net Present Value is as a mathematical tool. They could have made these women their best friends and collected benefits back in the day. I’ve still got friends from the old days. I just didn’t marry them.


  126. @Legion

    You’re clearly projecting and maybe your problem is because you’re in the egghead crowd instead of, what I suspected, would be the blue collar crowd that can’t make a point in essay form.

    I’m still not sure if you’re really male however, because of the assumptions you make of how males think.

    First of all, a normal male with a college degree doesn’t think of a college student in terms of her labia nor would I be anywhere near having sex with a proper religious East European after one date.

    {You don’t offer to help a woman with finances and university work, unless she has imbibed multiple gallons]

    This is an immature and disgusting way to show that you haven’t got game enough to get into a woman’s dormitory to help her “study”.

    Also, your nitpicking about a single text out of many that worked to get a flaker away from the inhuman behavior of only being available via text and canceling dates.

    A man can OFFER anything he wants. A man can OFFER a woman stranger a drink with dinner…but still not buy it for her until she’s agreed to change venues with him and give him her number.

    What women disrespect is when a man is needy enough to provide money and gifts when she is giving NOTHING IN RETURN. Giving a date in return for writing an essay in another language is not “getting nothing in return” considering the immaterial outlay on my part.

    This is where you show a below average IQ. You read somewhere that women don’t respect men who spend money on them (especially before sexual activity) but aren’t smart enough to understand that I didn’t give the above woman any money and instead of disrespecting me after I offered to help her with her homework, she showed the opposite of disrespect by meeting me in person again.

    You’re stuck in Beginners PUA Nursery School like someone who either isn’t male or who isn’t actually practicing game on real women.

    Are you some guy in a wheel-chair projecting?

    [This is counterintuitive, yes. But you’ve gotta trust me on this one.]

    It isn’t counterintuitive at all.

    Everyone knows you don’t give money to women for nothing.

    Stop pretending you know anything about game beyond the first page of Roosh’s Bang.

    [You sound like an older guy whose years of ingrained betatude manifests itself through the particular desperation and sourness of the perpetually plotting, unrelaxed, persistent, over-analysing man.]

    How old are you? And are you even male? Where’s an example of one of your field reports?

    You want to be an asshole because I gave the great advice that, if a woman is flaking on a man via text, he has to 1) confront her on it and 2) find any excuse to get her into another mode of conversation (off of text).

    And are you projecting on the desperation remark?
    You haven’t been reading my accounts at all unless you’re envious and want to pretend I’m lying, like some married asshole in Australia tried to write a month ago.

    Smart guys, however, would know that an American male in Eastern Europe wouldn’t be hurting on the social scene.

    I have to leave out a lot because the sorry fuckers who live in the feminized regions of Western Europe, Australia, the UK and North America wouldn’t BELIEVE what life is like in East Europe and Asia.

    Just tonight I’ve got 4 college students coming over to celebrate the 21st birthday of one of them.

    On the agenda is a 4 way strip tease. The birthday gift that is expected means chump change, so much as to be immaterial. One of them wants me to marry her and she wants to spend the night.

    You’re gay if you wouldn’t want to be a fly on the wall.

    So much for desperation.

    If you think I’m lying…that shows you haven’t a clue what life is like in East Europe and Asia.


  127. @Legion

    After backtracking on your original non-points, its clear you want to get personal.

    A wounded egghead in socialist west Europe…or an envious blue collar worker or bitter aging feminist.

    Because of where you are, I don’t think you’re getting laid if you’re male.

    If you’re envious of my life in East Europe and wish to believe that I’ve been lying all along, stand in line behind the unhappily married Australian guy @DaleRojo who lost his pathetic attempt to attack me for not being monogamous to an aging wife like he is.

    Dale desperately wants to believe that a woman who lifts her shirt for cash will disrespect the man she’s doing it for. Riiighht.

    Dale loved the idea that, if a man defends a behavior that he practices only one day per month (getting a lapdance), then he does it every day and it comprises all of his game.

    Its hard to argue against someone so obtuse.

    Stand in line behind the feminist from Italy or wherever who keeps attacking on the concept of money being used in game, even though I only spend about $200 per month on things like strip teases while enjoying free dating most of the time.

    Your asshole remarks on cool guys not helping a college student with her homework shows you’re gay, an aging female or some guy in a wheelchair projecting some absurd idea of what his life would be like if he were whole.

    You’re too obtuse to understand that I did not give the above woman any money to go on that date after a few well placed texts that got her the Hell off of the texting platform, which was the whole point of the original comment.

    Stop acting like you read the first page of Roosh’s bang and now you can say “I know its counter-intuitive but trust me on this”.


  128. @Legion

    One more thing, if you want to stand in line with the feminist lurker and the unhappily married @Dalrerojo, then here’s a tip to get with the program:

    Condemn me for being *used* by all the students who either want to strip for me or marry me…and say its *only* because I’m American and they’re supposedly “financially desperate” (they’re not).

    Tell me that all the fun I’m having doesn’t count if you’re not trying to pretend like Dale that it isn’t really happening.

    Regale me with “You’re beta even if you do have a new 9 in bed with you 2 times per week”…because I’m supposedly violating some kind of PUA Principle of never offering a dream to a woman.

    Note that most Americans in East Europe and Russia will be rejected by the 8s, 9s and 10s. You have to speak the local language and you can’t look old and fat, you cannot actually give money for nothing in return and, most of all, you have to be able to be their friend whom they trust.

    Unlike in the west, in this part of the world a woman wants to trust a man as her friend before the clothes will peel off.


  129. I remember one from a few months ago. I got a woman’s number, did a few phone calls and then we ended up on our first date. She was a solid 8 and happened to be an accomplished television producer.

    2 minutes in she starts talking about her ‘friends’ (all guys) and how one of them is a director, another is a musician etc. She’s rambling on about other men for about ten minutes, trying to get an insecure reaction from me. I didn’t give her shit, I just sat there listening, pretending to be interested.

    After another drink she says…

    ‘Oh, I had a DVD I wanted to give you, but I forgot it, would you mind walking back to my apartment, it’s only 10 minutes away’.

    I say…

    ‘i’m gonna grab a cab anyway, so I’ll just get him to swing by your place first’

    She freezes and her eyes light up. Then she says…

    ‘Ok, we can go back to my place, but just so you know, I’m meeting my friend for coffee tomorrow, he’s leaving for India to do a film’.

    I say…. ‘A Bollywood thing’?

    Again she freezes, her jaw drops and her eyes light up. She says excitingly … ‘No’

    I say… ‘Oh, well that can be fun too’

    So, she determined that I am not intimidated by her ‘friends’ and I’m also not sexually judgmental of women, I must do this all the time.

    We got to her place, she closed the door, she jumped over her coffee table and started sucking my face off. The rest is history.



  130. If Legion were getting laid or getting women to get him off (assuming Legion is male – flame throwers tend to admit later that they never said they were male) he’d be able to write approximately how much its happening and with what demographic.

    He’d be able to describe the composition of his MLTR and the intrigues of how hard it is to keep the women from meeting each other.

    He’d be able to describe a conversation in the Her: Me: style, without worrying that a nitpicker would tear a certain sentence apart like a hungry coyote.

    He’d be honest about social expenditures and know, like Roissy’s written, that “every man pays for sex in one way or another”.

    He’d be able to describe how his frugality in some cases meant he went home with an intelligent 7 instead of a mercenary 9 (or how his generosity or promises allowed the reverse to happen).

    Most of all, he’d be confident enough in his own skin not to try to make himself look cool by lashing out at strangers using simplistic concepts found on page one of any beginner’s PUA book.


  131. Looks like I struck a nerve.


  132. @Legion

    Could you girls exchange emails and carry on the catfight somewheres else? Thx


  133. Agreed that I was drawn into a catfight ultimately about whether a guy should do a college student’s homework on the first date.

    But what struck a nerve were two things:

    A) There should be more moderation regarding those who start catfights by demanding, Aspergers-like, that everyone follow “official PUA rules” out in the field.

    Without moderation, forums descend to an average IQ level of 100, which is not where the smarter readers want the forum to be.

    B) The PUA community has long been dominated by feminism and, only in the past year and with the help of the Chateau, has there been an effort to exorcise feminist thought-patterns from Anglo-Saxon PUA mindsets.

    Legion, most likely a female, was pushing a feminist mindset, but probably really believed that it was some kind of PUA common sense.


  134. Here’s how the PUA Community was wracked by feminist theology only one year ago and how Roissy’s blog has been influential in reversing that trend:

    1) Feminists have an agenda of making sure all males want to date them as opposed to non-feminists. Thus, it is in their interest to not only berate the competition (East European and Asian women), but to get males to agree with them that only “socially inept” and weak guys would refuse to stay home in the USA or UK to date “strong women”.

    PUA Seminar Marketers have an agenda of making sure prospective customers don’t spend their excess cash on anything other than more PUA seminars. Like the feminists, these guys have an interest in men not leaving DC, NY or London (t is not a coincidence that the need for PUA seminars has arisen in the epicenters of feminism).


    Because they would have put themselves out of business by advising men to spend their excess cash flying to Warsaw, some PUA “Experts” made sure members of the PUA community took the feminist position on East Europe and Asia and stayed home to spend money on seminars.

    There was shaming going on. I got into a few “catfights” on the the idea that I was somehow a “coward” for not wanting to stay in the New York City dating scene.

    Roissy then noted, after a trip to Estonia, that this was crap.

    He said it artificially raises the Sexual Market Value of American and British women to imply that only Betas would chose to avoid them and get hotter, tighter women elsewhere.

    Because of this blog, the PUA community is starting to become less feminist on this point. But not entirely.

    Roosh accidentally said in a recent article that “in the future, more Betas will go to East Europe and Asia to avoid feminists”.

    Roosh goes to Brazil regularly to meet women. Was he calling himself Beta?

    So wooly thinking is still happening, even among the leaders of the “PUA Community”.


    2) Feminists have an agenda of making sure men their age do not abandon them for younger hotter women.

    Childishly, they get the liberal media to promote cougarism while getting the same media to imply that older men who date younger women are “losers” who won’t grow up.

    But a year ago, young members of this blog and other PUA forums were consistently attacking any guy who said he was older than 35 for STILL BEING IN THE GAME.

    Young punks started catfights about that.

    They didn’t know they were taking the feminist position as they said “any man who isn’t married by 35 probably isn’t good at game. and grandpa’s advice would have to be crap as a result.”

    It took Roissy to lead the way in saying that the guys still left unmarried after 35 were not just the Gammas but the Alphas who were smart enough not to marry.

    It may be hard to believe, but this was a new concept in the PUA Community just one year ago. The ingrained idea had been that a good gamer would snare a good woman to marry by age 35.

    A year ago it was almost not worth it to admit being over 35 even on this blog. It was a feminist wet dream to see young guys disrespecting the older “Patriarchs”.

    That’s now changed.


    3) Feminists have an agenda to make sure no man uses money or real world status to “exploit women”.

    Again, PUA Seminar Marketers agreed with them about not wanting their prospective customers to spend money on anything but more seminars.

    But the PUA marketers couldn’t directly take the feminist position that money and power is used to “exploit women”.

    So they pushed the arguable point that mercenary women are the ones who “exploit men” (use men) and imply that an “Alpha male” will never even discuss money with a female in order to get her into bed.

    But like @Hot Karl noted above, its bogus to say that men have allowed themselves to be used if they get their rocks off with a 9 or 10.

    @Hot Karl went to bed with a gold-digger who had been led to believe he was rich.

    Good for him.

    It doesn’t mean he’s a Beta or that has to rely on this strategy for every girl he beds (he’d still be an Alpha if he did rely on this strategy and got lots of hot women as a result).

    What is Beta is starting catfights with guys who say they’ve discussed or used money while gaming women.

    Catfights on this issue need to stop for the PUA Community to move forward in discussions of getting laid in the real world.

    And it should be clear that any single man who wouldn’t pay for a set of lap-dances with a 10 is either gay or poverty stricken.


    While Roissy has helped turn the PUA Community’s thinking that had aligned itself with the above 3 feminist agenda points, this final one is something that is not yet settled.

    Roissy could write more on how its a man’s job to exploit mercenaries now and then in order to better close the final chapter on the PUA Community inadvertently allying itself with the Feminist Community.


  135. Jerry,

    stop trolling.


  136. Heh.

    dalerojo: “Sex with my wife is still the best. And it’s getting better”
    Message received by Jerry: “I’m an unhappily married feminist who goes to strip clubs once a month.”

    It’s too bad, Jerry, that you weren’t in my second grade class playing telephone with us.
    Kid 1: “It’s time to advance”
    Kid 2: “It’s time to advance”
    Special kid: “Ith thyyda admamth”
    Kid 3: “It’s time to dance”
    Kid 4: “It’s time to dance”
    Jerry: “We’re miserable Brits, no, wait, Australians, no, wait, blue-collar frustrated western Europeans who can’t get women to dance for us”
    Kid after Jerry: What the fuck dude?


  137. @DaleRojo

    I knew you were still obsessively reading everything I write and would catch the reference to being my favorite detractor.

    Further evidence that you’re unhappily married to an aging slut. You wouldn’t be at this blog getting the reputation you’ve got otherwise.

    For instance, if you were really still having any sex with your wife, you wouldn’t have gotten a reputation here for attacking regulars who prefer virgins to sluts.

    If you’re afraid to say what nationality you are, what’s that say about you?

    If you’re really obsessed about condemning lap-dancing, you might visit blogs where you can discuss with other church lady types about how you want to get local politicians to ban things like that locally.


  138. @DaleRojo

    I also note your continuing failure to condemn feminism. That’s your trademark.

    This might have something to do with your failure to state your nationality.


  139. @Paladin

    If you’ve got a poiint to make, asshole, then make it.

    Are you also too gay to ever get a lap dance?


  140. @Roissy

    This is your blog and its your decision if you want to collect fairies as readers who would worry about any mention of money while gaming women + the idea of convincing normal college students to strip for cash…and shut down discussion with shaming language.

    You just mentioned on your new post that you’re exasperated with how literally some of the readers take your advice. Believe me, some take the stuff about not spending money (or even discussing it) way too literally.

    This has been a problem on your blog for a long while.

    You know that real feminists argue with me about this on this blog all the time. Its not hard for them to get critical mass, especially with West European “males”.

    Do you want young PUA aspirants to grow up here thinking that lap dances are bad?

    Do you want the youngsters here to think they’d be Beta if they bought a round of drinks for a bunch of girls in return for lifting their shirts and bras?

    Develop a moderation policy on this please, one way or the other.

    There is a troll situation here.

    Develop a policy because I’m tired of defending the majority of normal males who aren’t gay when it comes to dealing with mercenary women.

    @Hot Karl is an example of a normal guy taking advantage of an opportunity.


  141. oh my fucking god

    PAYING for lapdances and stripping is NOT FUCKING ALPHA are you insane?


  142. on October 28, 2010 at 11:51 am Vincent Ignatius

    Josh, speed dating studies show that roughly 60% of Asian women and 80% of white women are unwilling to date outside their race. Also, I suppose that a lot of the Asian women are taught to select men that would make good dads, not cads.

    I wonder what it would look like for dating a man who is half their race. Eurasian men can often clean up with both races.


  143. @Anonymous

    Nobody said it was.

    But young women often have whore fantasies and SOMETIMES they are looking for politically incorrect guys who aren’t afraid to neg them by saying they’re worth only $20.

    Only an Aspie who takes basic PUA advice too literally would jump up and down and scream “Oh my God” like a woman about this.

    I do assume that you are female (and women should be judged by what they do when out partying, not what they say when sober at a computer).

    One has to judge the situation, but brazen bad guys who would dare to ask a normal girl to strip are not, in real life, taken as Betas. Jerks maybe, but young women with whore fantasies love jerks.

    A man who’s already ahead on DHVs and preselection and who has established attraction with a woman who isn’t LTR material, only faces the chance of being seen as a jerk if he asks in a joking manner to that normal woman to do a lap-dance for him. Depending on how he says it, he won’t be seen as being needy. If she’s already into him, there’s a good chance she might oblige. If she’s dumb as a bunch of rocks, he won’t have to worry about having a future with her taking $20s. He just wants fun now.

    The question is whether there are some men who’ve taken PUA advice so literally that they’ve turned into fags about whether they’d ever pay for a lap-dance, especially the misguided types who think a woman will like and respect a man more for refusing.

    On any given date with the type of 18-25 year old woman who watches Sex and the City, a man could joke about paying her for a lap-dance and get away with it. He can also joke about her paying him.

    If it comes down to her actually giving the lap-dance and demanding $20, he can decide whether to give it to her or not – but its probably not good advice to tell a guy to renege on such a triviality.

    The trick is bringing up the idea of sexual activity (or getting together at all). The content of such talk isn’t going to turn a woman off (and don’t listen to any feminist telling you it would).

    Roissy just condemned in a new post the kind of reader who takes some of the things he’s said too literally.

    I say the fear about talking to women about money is the biggest example of Aspie readers on this blog taking the “don’t pay for drinks” advice too far and out of context.

    The idea that a woman would lose attraction to a man who paid for her drinks before she changed venues with him…cannot translate into the idea that she’d lose attraction to a guy she’s already heavily into if he jokes about stripping.

    This is especially true because I know a large amount of women would, if they are attracted to a guy, take him up on his “joke” request and enjoy it. The money would be trivial to both parties. That all just provides the excuse.

    I repeat: Young women often have whore fantasies.

    IA man wants to be politically incorrect.

    There are plenty of ways to be politically incorrect. This is just one way – to be used sparingly when in the mood.

    Roissy should decide if he wants readers to think they have to be politically correct and never joke about their date doing a pole dance for a twenty or not.

    Political correctness is gay.

    The above doesn’t even discuss Vulnerability Game and fact that a guy can be Beta with a woman for ten minutes and it won’t hurt him overall with her.

    So, if a woman takes a man seriously on a joke strip request and she says no, even if she thought what the man said was “beta”, other things he says and does before and after will decide how things go with her overall.


  144. Damn…some dudes will do whatever it takes not to spend a penny.

    I don’t think this is alpha vs. beta. It’s generous vs. cheap.

    Jerry, you’ll never get a cheapskate to admit that spending any money on any woman in any situation is ever a good thing.

    It’s like women who want to have it all…a guy who will work, bring home the money, and still shag like a champ, doesn’t ever cheat, thinks she’s the most beautiful woman on earth, etc.

    Some guys don’t understand that beauty, especially in the type of women who are young and fit (Laveyan 10-1 o’clocks) is a commodity. It’s bought and sold one way or another, and one can be in that economy or not…but if one is not then they miss out on the prime flesh.

    I don’t think it’s beta to understand that certain women can indeed be rented, and then put nicely back on the shelf so they’re not in your way when you move to the next one.


  145. @Nicole

    Thanx for being the female voice of reason on this. You’ve got more of a spine than some of the fags above.

    Some of the guys, especially Brits, who use those marriage agencies come to Eastern Europe and take the advice “Don’t give women money” so seriously that they piss the non-feminist women off.

    Taking advice too seriously and out of context can be a major mistake in anyone’s life.

    These tourists do their best to come across as major cheapskates…presumably because this is advice they’ve learned for dealing with feminist Brit women or whatever.

    They quickly find themselves alone in terms of the young women.

    Then they give up on dating women in their 20s and marry a 45 year old they can feel won’t want to use them.

    Fear of being used (or fear of being laughed at) is about the most Beta emotion I can imagine.


  146. I would like to see one man on this board come forward and echo what you are saying…I have yet to see it


  147. Anonymous, that it isn’t popular doesn’t say anything about whether or not it’s right.

    Sometimes, guys don’t admit to things in public that might make them look bad, like having shagged or been in love with a woman who was overweight or having spent money to rent a hoe or show generosity.

    Every once in awhile, someone honest comes along though.

    …and as usual, they have detractors. I have them too whenever I dare to say that there are dominant men in the world who might find my company preferable to a random 20 year old hot blonde. I must be wrong because if the unicorn who had my personality who was also young, hot, and blonde existed, they would pick her over me.

    If I were to say that was a big if, on cue, someone would chime in to remind me that I am fat and therefore utterly worthless as a human being, etc.

    So now, folks want to say that Jerry is beta for not wanting to to play games with the young and dumb brand of sluts and hoes that could easily be circumvented with a bit of cash or a bottle of vodka.


  148. Jerry, I don’t know about voice of reason, but definitely voice of femaleness.

    As I told an ex boyfriend who broke my bed and balked at replacing it, “If you want to be equals, then you be equal over there, and I’ll be equal over here. We’ll be equal like pals. 🙂


  149. @Nicole

    Ahem – In the few days a month I might consider taking advantage of women’s mercenary tendencies, I tend to talk normal university students into stripping and only when they aren’t LTR material.

    I wouldn’t want my girlfriend to catch me with a slut.

    If her mother saw me with a normal looking woman, I can say she’s a business colleague. I’d be in deep trouble if the description of the woman I was with was someone I couldn’t say I was discussing business with.

    Also, on those relatively rare occasions I take up this type of entertainment, talking a slut into stripping would be too easy.

    It’s like the Army won’t take people who can’t do 30 pushups – One has to have standards.

    That said, while I’d give a pass to social conservative males who might have religious qualms, any normal guy who doesn’t agree with your following quote is definitely a fag:

    “I don’t think it’s beta to understand that certain women can indeed be rented, and then put nicely back on the shelf so they’re not in your way when you move to the next one.”

    Roissy lives among high paid DC lawyers and trust fund babies. They’d be mercenary for the equivalent of one month’s pay like anyone else, but one month’s pay for them might be $8000.

    Only an Arab sheik can seduce them with money (as one sees in the film “Sex and the City 2”).

    They’ve priced themselves so far out of the market even before one takes into account their feminism, entitlement, etc.

    Roissy has had to learn his game under very adverse conditions. Its no coincidence that the PUA Industry has grown around the epicenters of feminism, London and DC.

    In addition, he dates women who read this blog.

    Enough said there.

    Even still, I’d expect him to do a post soon explaining that lap-dances are OK. He’s done that before. But like some religious people with the Bible, cheapskates and fags cherry pick the advice they want to believe Roissy is giving them.


  150. Jerry says, “But like some religious people with the Bible, cheapskates and fags cherry pick the advice they want to believe Roissy is giving them.”

    Yeah, they forget the bit about how understanding how things work, he’s prepared to spend his old age drinking and banging whores, if it comes to that.

    Prior to that though, we had one of many arguments about that. I was telling him that if he has to have a certain type of women, then he has to deal with their tendencies. I was under the impression that he was saying that hot girls are nicer and less mercenary than others.

    At the time though, I was thinking that he was thinking Jolie hot, not Loren hot, a.k.a. beautiful. The same principle would apply if one is talking about women on the extreme end of either (extreme conformists to the Helga of Silicones template or extreme actually feminine bombshell beauty) but the liklihood based on hormonal/genetic profile is lower on hoe likelihood for the feminine beauty who isn’t constantly being offered pay for play.

    If people make the wrong assumptions based on what basically amounts to differences in terminology, they could think he’s saying something he’s not, just as easily as I did.

    That’s not his fault or really their fault, just one of those issues in communicating in text.


  151. “I don’t think this is alpha vs. beta. It’s generous vs. cheap.”

    Ladies, Gentlemen and rookies,

    It is both.

    What defines alpha vs. beta is how much a man gets sexually from women for his resources (time/money).

    Hence the corresponding female notion of generous and cheap. Generous meaning she used a lot of his time/money without sexual consequence and cheap meaning she used little of his time/money with heavy sexual consequence. It’s obvious which scenario women prefer. In other words alphas are cheap and betas are suckers (generous).

    Let’s crush the notion that REAL men don’t pay for sex. They always do… even if it’s simply buying soap to wash your balls… which is the appeal of all those Axe commercials. All men pay for sex. Alphas just pay much less for it…. In college got pussy with cheap beer from a keg rather than date, but we still paid for the keg. The girls didn’t. Read Karen Owen’s powerpoint again and you’ll find multiple examples of alphas “paying for it”

    I personally am very proud that I once paid a Hamilton for an orgy! How did it happen. I turned a request for me to buy a $20 lap dance into my request for her to give me a $10 back rub which then turned into our realization that I worked with an air force buddy of hers which then turned into her requesting that I come party with her and her friends later that evening.

    Why was I at the strip club in the 1st place? A buddy was in the midst of a bitter divorce, so 3 of of us decided to have an impromptu divorce party to cheer him up. For whatever reason the strippers thought that was the coolest thing and I used it to my advantage minus a club cover charge.

    Bang for your buck defines alpha. A man will always need to spend “money” to get “honey”. It’s the “how much” that counts.

    So Jerry is correct in that sense, however Jerry, $200 dollars to boink someone else’s girl (excepting Giselle Bundchen) is not alpha behavior.


  152. @Nicole

    I forgot to mention that:

    Roissy has stated that, when he’s too old to get the hottest young women, he will rent them pure and simple.

    If that’s what it takes.

    Its not as if he couldn’t get clean upper middle class 23 year old mercenaries at age 65. That’s available.

    That makes the detractors above trolls with poor reading comprehension (it only takes a few hours to read the Citizen Renegade archives).

    I would have used that defense above if I felt that I was getting old enough to use it as an excuse. But the fact is that I still look young enough that I can’t use the excuse that I can’t get 18-21 years any other way. I still can.

    When I cannot get them without paying, I will pay. Period.

    Now he might fall in love with someone who ages well and forget about that plan. So might I. LOL

    But the option is there (until feminists close that option with more laws making solicitation a felony, etc – but nothing can stop this type of commerce).


  153. Evil, actually, how much to spend and under what circumstances is a better discussion than to pay or not to pay for anything at all.

    Too much “generosity” is suckerlicious. Too much tight fistedness, and there are feasability issues, or the “equals” thing.


  154. [Bang for your buck defines alpha. A man will always need to spend “money” to get “honey”. It’s the “how much” that counts. So Jerry is correct in that sense, however Jerry, $200 dollars to boink someone else’s girl (excepting Giselle Bundchen) is not alpha behavior.]

    Agreed. A calculation can be made about what three dinners and fresh roses would have cost, etc. And then subtract.

    But the best looking women know where they stand relative to each other and they’re always more sophisticated on this than men. Naive men don’t understand that most 9s and 10s have been propositioned for money since before they were legal.

    Anyone can ask a female friend who is a 9+ about how many propositions she’s had. She’ll say the men were all “creeps” but she’ll be lying. She at least considered some.

    A set of 10 lap-dances in the USA would run about $200 for a guy that doesn’t trigger easy. That was always in my budget once per month or once every 6 weeks if I walked into a high-end place and some new girl was a 9.5 or higher. In the US, one can’t do much better than that. You get what you pay for.


  155. You’re blaming your ex-boyfriend for breaking your bed? How, did he take a sledgehammer to it??


  156. Tinderbox, he sat-fell on it the wrong way…basically.


  157. […] — Good Examples Of Readers Passing Shit Tests, Teasing Should Be Like Breathing, Belittle […]


  158. “You realize, of course, that the angrier you get, the happier I am.”


  159. Shit-test:

    Her: I notice you don’t dance with Doris any more…

    This Doris was a girl I’d been involved with previously.

    Me: Which Doris?

    Her: I don’t know her personally, I don’t know all the girls. You know me.

    Me: Yah…I know you…

    It was all I could thing of at the time…

    Any similar experiences?


  160. An update and some possible rejoinders that worked for me…

    After a year of solid game on a girl in my social circle, we finally sealed the deal.

    Thanks to this blog in large part I was able to maintain frame and escalate, then pull back.

    But of course, in the course of sealing deal in what became the best bang of the last 2 years, I get the following shit-tests, posted…in bed…which I present here with my responses:

    Her: What do you want?

    Me: More of that fish we baked, any left?

    Later, again:

    Her: What do you want from me?

    Me: I want you to get us some more wine.


    Her: So what do you want from me? Tell me

    Me: I want you to shut up and kiss me.

    All gold.

    Then there was the best one.

    Her: Do you like me?

    Me: Amplification: No. NOOO????!!!

    Needless to say all of this seemed to bond her further and the questions tapered off.

    Without this knowledge I would have responded unwittingly with straight answers which I now see would only further erode any alpha cred I’d established.

    This blog and the advice from is transformational for any guy who wants to invest the time in learning it.