I Tried The Apocalypse Opener

For those of you who are unfamiliar with the magisterial Apocalypse Opener, go here to read about it in detail.

Essentially, the Apocalypse Opener is three simple sentences. A description from the link above:

You rock up to a chick and, in a confident, level voice you say

“Hey, how’s it going.”

She will say

“Fine.”

You then say

“Cool. What are you doing later?”

She will say

“I’m not sure.”

You then say

“Do you want to come home with me?”

Then you hold.

Hold.

HOLD………………..

HOLD IT MY SON……………………..

HOLD THE FUCKING LINE………………

Boom. Makeout. [editor’s note: he means a makeout should be forthcoming, not that you should initiate a makeout]

So that’s all I had to memorize. “Hey, how you doing.” “Cool. What are you up to later?” “Do you want to come home with me?” Easy enough, but of course nothing is ever that simple. The real power of the opener resides in your confident body language, casual delivery, and most importantly how well you maintain state control after you say the final knockout line. Again, from the website link above:

The key to making it work is not how you say it, but what you do in the 30 seconds after it’s left your mouth.

Before I talk specifics, let’s state the single CARDINAL SIN of the Apocalypse, which is the ONLY THING that can blow you out.

NEVER BE WEIRD

That’s it. Don’t be weird. You have to deliver the opener deadpan. Like you are talking about the WEATHER. You are not making a BIG THING of it. You’re just ASKING.

You are not MOCKING. You are not JOKING. You are not TOO SERIOUS.

It is NOT PLAYFUL however – it is REAL.

You are REALLY ASKING HER.

If she says no – you only need ONE COMEBACK.

It is this:

“Ok.”

The key to making the Apocalypse Opener (“AO”) work seems to be that you are being sexually genuine without being sexually eager. That means: No creepiness, no giggling, no bashful smiling, no reneging after you’ve uttered the killer line, and no goofball backpedaling during that critical 30 second post-opener window. In sum: NO FEAR. I imagine if the girl reacted poorly, even angrily, to the AO most guys would be tempted to reassure her that it was just a joke.

He then goes on to explain that if she says “No” you just start talking about random shit like you would do with any girl you were being friendly with in a bar. He claims that 50% of the time, a girl who declines the AO will reengage you later in the night, as long as you handled the blowout with supreme nonchalance. He also makes the outlandish claim that the AO will “work” (that is, it will result in a same night lay) 40% of the time.

I had my doubts, so I decided to try it for myself and for the entertainment of you, my readers. The things I do for you people…

I went alone to a bar I don’t normally frequent. If I was going to risk getting a beer poured on my head, I didn’t want my buddies pointing and laughing at me and I didn’t want to cause trouble in a bar where I knew the staff. I decided to make my move before it got too late in the night and crowded with garrulous frat boys that my target could wave over in case the AO failed spectacularly. I also didn’t want to use it on very drunk girls. Almost any bold direct game will work to some degree on drunk chicks, and I wanted to test the AO without alcohol falsifying the result.

I, on the other hand, needed a couple of stiff drinks for this challenge. Although the AO sounds incredibly easy on paper, when you are standing there alone in a semi-crowded bar about to take your first steps toward your target, the lines you have practiced saying by yourself suddenly jam up in your throat. The AO is no ordinary opener; I was feeling intense apprehension the likes of which I hadn’t felt since I sat next to THE CUTEST GIRL IN THE WORLD in sixth grade English class and negged her pink backpack.

I walked up to her. I chose my target well. She was standing by the bar alone. I couldn’t see the AO working on girls in mixed sets. She was a solid 6, mid or late 20s, not GF worthy, but certainly lay worthy. There was no way I was ready to run the AO on a bonafide hottie.

“Hey, what’s up.”

She smiled. “Oh, not much. You?”

“I’m alright. You doing anything later?”

“Um… I dunno. Why?”

I focused hard on sounding casual. “Do you want to come home with me?”

After I said it, I felt a tremendous rush of adrenaline. I think I might have chubbed out a little, too. I kept my eyes locked on hers and a slight smile throughout. I made sure not to arch my eyebrows imploringly.

Her mouth hung open. At first she had a startled look, then amusement, then a darkening seriousness. She glanced down at her feet then back up at me.

“How many women has this worked on?”

“If you’d prefer not to, then that’s cool.”

“I just… I mean, it’s sort of OUT THERE, you know?”

I shrugged my shoulders. “Maybe compared to the average guy.”

“Well, um, I have to tell you I’m waiting for my boyfriend to arrive. So I’m flattered, but…”

“Ok, no problem. Catch you around.”

And with that I left the bar.

Apocalypse Opener: FAIL. But of course this was a sample set of one, so I won’t draw any conclusions about its efficacy or the adroitness of my delivery yet. She may have really been waiting for a boyfriend for all I knew.

I suspect the AO won’t work very well if you are an older man hitting on a much younger woman. Large age discrepancies need indirect game. This chick wasn’t much younger than me, but if she had been 19 I think my AO would have gone over like a lead balloon. I’m not a huge proponent of direct game, (and AO is about as direct as it gets), but in situations where you already communicate high sexual status through your looks and fashion sense, the AO will yield more success for you.

Since the AO has such potential for generating humorous and humiliating stories, I plan to purchase a small voice recorder that I will hide under my shirt when I do future AO attempts. Then I will post the audio on my blog for your edification. If you don’t hear any sound after I say the opener, that means I’m getting some.





Comments


  1. It would be interesting to see how this worked on 8+’s

    good idea

    Like


  2. on June 19, 2009 at 12:50 pm Gunslingergregi

    That’s the game I am talking about.

    Like


  3. you the man!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Like


  4. on June 19, 2009 at 12:54 pm Willard Libby

    NEVER BE WEIRD

    LOL. There’s always a catch.

    Liked by 1 person


  5. “He also makes the outlandish claim that the AO will “work” (that is, it will result in a same night lay) 40% of the time.”

    Have you seen Neil Strauss’s Pick-up Labs blog? They’re always trying to collect data on different PUA methods.

    They found 3 successful attempts out of 22 correctly done AOs. A 14%ish success rate for men with above average, but not expert, Game.

    http://pickuplabs.com/blog/?tag=apocalypse-opener

    Like


  6. Beautiful, I cant wait to try this too.

    seems like the “Vicky, Christina Barcelona” trailer

    Like


  7. wow, I had heard rumors of such actions working in the real world, not the PUAsphere. Stories of legend, like the ninja touch of death. Stuff noone could or would actually repeat.

    Good for you for doing it.

    I do, however, await G-Man’s report on how he swoops this.

    Like


  8. i suspect this will depend strongly on the nature of the target female. that is, some will react like the redhead that (allegedly) jumped the narrator on bristollair, but probably very few. i think the reaction you got would be typical in the U.S. and/or DC – not shock or awe, disbelief or anger, but kind of an amused “is he really serious…?”

    i’d bet you get that 9 out of 10 times, and the other one a slap in the face. larger sample : 90 “are you serious”es, 9 slaps, 1 lunge over for the tongue-kiss. 100 attempts = 300 short, spoken lines and bottomless courage. at least you will have the ultimate mastery over approach anxiety. and as a psychological experiment, the reactions you get might help you hone your game, even if they don’t get you laid.

    Just don’t let the Apocalypse Opener turn you into Colonel Kurtz .. cringing “the horror… the horror… the horror…” after each rejection. More like Robert Duvall: “I love the smell of KY Jelly in the morning .. it smells like…VICTORY.” 🙂

    Audio files? Of actual field conversations/approaches? Awesome idea. Have a lawyer vet it so some hapless chick doesn’t come across her dumb ramblings on your site and later try to sue you. But other than that, I’d say they’d be of great interest. Just so long as they’re not like that sucky video from the other week …

    Like


  9. If you are a decent looking guy that is well put together I can see this working on *some* females.

    Like


  10. the thing is, its easy to try to woo a 6. Easy to keep your ground when you actually think she’s beneath you.

    Maybe the AO only works with 10s, who aren’t used to hard approaches at all.

    Like


  11. I was feeling intense apprehension the likes of which I hadn’t felt since I sat next to THE CUTEST GIRL IN THE WORLD in sixth grade English class and negged her pink backpack.

    I’d always wondered about what happened to that kid 😉

    Like


  12. @lurker – how’d it go with opera girl?

    Like


  13. If I were you I would take an X-tab, preferably from Amsterdam, and try it again on vacation where you just don’t care because no one will ever see you again. And just keep doing it with a buddy. Make it competitive, with money at stake for whoever does the most of them in a weekend or whoever gets it to actually work. Do it on X, maybe with some coke mixed in to the equation, and do them one after the other. Make it fun and competitive.

    Like


  14. Problem is, too much coke and you won’t get hard. Maybe get some viagra too.

    Like


  15. Oh and before the objections come, being a prude about drugs = beta.

    Like


  16. on June 19, 2009 at 1:15 pm Gunslingergregi

    ””””””’from the link
    ””””””””’This is the polar opposite of sneakiness. This is hyperhonesty. ”””””””””””””””’

    Lets get married is a pretty good opening line too for getting same day lay.

    Not using that as I wasn’t trying to get laid. I picked up 2 americans and an indo on the trip to indo. Building some momentum to meet my woman.

    Return trip did use lets get married to pick up pi chick who proceeded to tell me about all the business she owns. Man I got a knack for picking he he he.

    Like


  17. on June 19, 2009 at 1:17 pm Gunslingergregi

    “””””””””””on June 19, 2009 at 12:56 pm Rain And
    “He also makes the outlandish claim that the AO will “work” (that is, it will result in a same night lay) 40% of the time.”

    Have you seen Neil Strauss’s Pick-up Labs blog? They’re always trying to collect data on different PUA methods.

    They found 3 successful attempts out of 22 correctly done AOs. A 14%ish success rate for men with above average, but not expert, Game.

    http://pickuplabs.com/blog/?tag=apocalypse-opener“”””””””””””

    4/5 succes rate for email/number closes.

    Like


  18. It would be interesting to see how this worked on 8+’s

    i’d like to know the same. i would think this has more chance of working on better-looking women (so long as there is attraction). 5’s and 6’s have probably had their fair share of blatant propositioning from dudes in bars.

    Like


  19. Mo, here’s the breakdown:

    1) she talked 3 times as much about herself as asked me questions.

    2) even though me made out and held hands the night we met (while drunk) she gave one french kiss, eschewed holding hands, and said, “i go slow, that first night was an anomoly.”

    3) militant. vegan.

    4) wants to segue into acting.

    5) Former fattie

    6) dressed down (leather jacket, unremarkable jeans)

    7) hands folded across chest for much of the ngiht.

    8) probably a college slut trying to reform (“I went wild in college” and “I hung out at this one frat all the time” coupled with silence and subject changes when I probed)

    We had some things in common, and some good convo, but a self-absorbed, defensive, trying-to-be-frigid former slut who’s a vegan with a chip on her shoulder?

    I have her a shot, and its probably good I did. Now I know that unless she makes contact for a booty call, my better judgment tells me to delete and move on.

    Like


  20. I’ve wanted to try the AO since I first read about it about a year ago – but seriously I’d need to be on beta-blockers for that one. I seem to remember the original source I read it from saying that it was a kicking out time line – ie: he walked up to a girl hanging around outside a bar on her own at closing time.

    The closest I ever got to doing something like this was years back: chick opened me as I was waiting for my brother in a bar. I was seriously bored and I think it showed but she came over anyway and introduced herself. My response: “Is this where we do all that boring getting to know you chit chat?”. And held it…Waited…Little longer. Then her tongue was in my throat.

    Like


  21. on June 19, 2009 at 1:28 pm smoothvirus

    I love you. This is fucking awesome.

    Like


  22. @lurker, roissy – the time of night thing might make a big difference. not just the alcohol factor – significant in itself – but also the level of confidence/desperation. early on, a woman in a bar (like a man looking to get laid) will try to keep the field open as long as possible, checking out/chatting up many different possiblities. so unless your physical presence/alpha cool are so overpowering that she’d basically want to fuck you on first sighting anyway, she will not be in the right state for that kind of close.

    toward closing time, when all the other options have gone away, and it’s time to leave alone (or with your same-sex buddies), there’s that “last call” mood. we’ve all been there. it seems to me that’s the maximum moment for effectiveness for this move, as in the bristollair example.

    Like


  23. Mo, my breakdown is above. Any thoughts? Queries?

    Anyone, feel free to offer some advice. I think being done with her is the best move. But perhaps I’m wrong?

    Like


  24. This sounds like something that is highly dependent on looks. I expect lower sexual market value guys will have success in the single digits.

    This is still a very good learning tool.

    Like


  25. @lurker- yeah, i hear you – booty call sounds about right. so think of a way to wear away that thinly-applied ASD. text her sexy, random messages, etc. push-pull – generous, romantic gestures followed by assholish pulling away. you never know – she was all over you that first night, so the frigid body language may have been a way of keeping control over herself, not to project at you. but LTR? former fattie a red flag, vegan thing a pain in the ass.

    roissy? any ideas?

    @stu – yeah, a closing time thing – you said it better than me.

    Like


  26. on June 19, 2009 at 1:39 pm Gunslingergregi

    Lurker that sounds scary run away.

    Like


  27. @Lurker, I’d give it a miss – sounds like hard work. I never read any of your previous stuff on this girl – did you have a SNL with her? If so it could be a bit of buyers remorse because of lack of comfort building on the night so she’s out for a non slutty replay.

    Like


  28. 40% of the time, it works all the time.

    Like


  29. Mo, I thought that too. I even called her on her crossed-arms schtick, and she said, “Well, I don’t know you that well.” But then continued to hang out with me for an hour more.

    She’s massively insecure, as all actresses are, especially about her intellect. I read her personality like a book—she’s a rebel who loves rules, a person who yearns for structure to rail against and yet ultimately embrace (for example, she was raised a nonreligious child, then joined the Mormon church specifically because of its rigidness, but yet considers herself nonpracticing–drinking, mary jane, caffeine, sex).

    That last bit intrigued me, which is why I probably didn’t end it too soon. After all, she’s basically saying she’d like a man to be in control and giving hard and fast rules, but that she’d be up in my face challenging them all the time. But that just might be her excuse for massive shit tests, and she’s not hot enough or easy enough to pull that.

    Like


  30. Seems this would only have a chance of working if the target is alone. If in group, any positive response on the part of the target, would mark her as a slut in front of her friends and the target won’t risk that. Also, you’re likely to get cock-blocked by any friends.

    I suppose if you stuck around after the above situation, the target could re-engage you later on. But still, even the chance of re-engagement is lower if the original contact was made in group.

    Like


  31. SNL? Not sure fo the lingo there. Also, what’s ASD?

    We made out at a bar upon first meeting, held hands, and groped. Junior High stuff. Yea, it probably is her new slut shield, but that doesn’t mean I like it.

    Like


  32. SNL = Same Night Lay
    ASD = Anti Slut Defense

    Like


  33. Thanks stu. No SNL, but definitely an ASD.

    Like


  34. I had the same thought as Antonio above: This opener reminds me of the scene in Vicky Cristina Barcelona where Javier Bardem (playing Juan Antonio) approaches Vicky and Cristina for the first time. A real classic. Great confidence. The scene can be found here and is another candidate for great game in movies:

    Funny, when I saw this movie with my wife, I chuckled out loud when I first saw this scene. The audacity. The balls. But my wife was strangely quiet and, I think, captivated. Hmmm… Led to some good times later that evening!

    Like


  35. Another intriguing thing about her is her fascination with pain. She gave me a complete run down of all her injuries in high school from sports, culminating her removing a bandage from her finger to show me part of a finger she’d sliced off a few days before.

    So perhaps she isn’t S&M, or wants to be.

    Like


  36. Roissy,

    Your committment to public service deserves official recognition. Perhaps a Presidential Medal of Freedom?

    (Yes, the President’s policies suck, but he clearly has a strong pimp hand – that’s why Michelle has to go sleeveless when it’s 10 degrees outside – so he won’t leave any marks getting her straight)

    Like


  37. @lurker – she sounds seriously damaged to me. Unless she was trying to re-create the scene from Lethal Weapon.

    Like


  38. You have to do this on an isolated girl. That is obvious. Also I agree with previous posters that the girl should have a buzz…this allows for glorious alchohol to numb inhibitions. Finally, I dont care how confident your body language is you need to be pretty good looking for this to work on an attractive girl. Sexually attractive, confident guys…you might as well cut to the chase and this move is the ultimate way to do it.

    Like


  39. @lurker – yeah, booty call at best. the mormon-convert thing would be sort of a red flag too – crazy seeking crazy. (apologies to any of you out there who are LDS.) play it by ear – text her stuff that invites her to have that kind of relationship with you. if she’s a recovering slut, might not be too hard to get those circuits going again. if it takes, great, if not – many fish in the sea.

    @MNL – that’s a great scene, but the context there is two impressionable and provincial american girls being swept away by an exotic latin dude. not the same as the typical meat-market night in adams morgan. an imbalance in the levels of comfort (home culture vs. new and unfamiliar environment), language, resources (poor students vs. summer house in the country), frame of mind, etc. also Javier Bardem’s character drips alpha and latin good looks. (probably wouldn’t have worked if he’d had a beatle haircut, aloof/creepy manner and an air compressor. same guy, totally different comportment.) so he’s the type that most women want to fuck anyway on first sight, so all he has to do is not screw up and he’s in. AO just the shortest route to get there.

    that said, point taken – it worked. and your american wife was silently impressed.

    Like


  40. on June 19, 2009 at 2:08 pm Patrick Bateman

    Roissy, are you sure you didn’t fail because of this exchange?

    “How many women has this worked on?”

    “If you’d prefer not to, then that’s cool.”

    It seems like she tried to get you to qualify yourself and you walked right into her trap. A better response would have been.

    “That’s not an answer.”

    Like


  41. You tried it once and then come to conclusion that it is a fail? Damn roissy, I would have stayed at the bar and run it on at least 5 more women. Even the author says that it will only work 30-50% of the time.

    Plus… you didn’t do it properly. She made some excuse and basically said no. Instead of going into normal fucking conversation like was suggested, you left immediately with the “cya around” line.

    I’ll run this in the bar tonight (friday night) and let you know how it really goes with at least 9-10 different women with no booze in my system.

    Like


  42. What do fat,ugly,bad haircut poorly dressed socially akward dudes do? Would it work for me–er,i mean them??

    Like


  43. Again, the stats belie an important variable.

    Did the correctly executed AO’s go against women that had properly given IOI’s and buy in to the male?

    My aggressive cold stuff can’t possibly be better than 5% success rate (and I stopped doing that long ago), while almost all my Game with women that are clearly buying me (e.g. go for target selection people) is almost 95% plus. In fact noone has said “no” in years….

    Like


  44. What if you can’t bring chicks to your house? Do you think “would you like to invite me over?” would work as well, or is that pushing it?

    Like


  45. Girl’s point of view:

    You’re at a bar/club by yourself and some guy you’ve never met before opens you with that line.

    Attractive or not, you’ve gotta look twice.

    First, is he drunk? Confidence is easy when you’re inebriated.

    If he’s not drunk, that was ballsy. He’s got the confidence to walk up to you on the sole basis of your looks and open you like that. That’s saying something, that’s saying a lot.

    Quick evaluation of clothing, posture, hygiene, how he fits into the scene, run through your memory if you’ve seen him before here, or at another venue, check behind him to see if he’s got a bunch of his guy friends watching him from a distance to see how badly he gets shot down or how slutty you may be if you walk off with him.

    Does he pass those basic mental run-throughs?

    If his friends are watching, do you turn your back on him or do you say, “I dunno… are your friends going to be joining us? The blond one is pretty hot.”

    Check what time it is. What time were you planning on leaving?

    “You have thirty minutes to convince me you’re worth it.”

    And see what he does from there.

    Like


  46. on June 19, 2009 at 2:22 pm Gunslingergregi

    you have 30 seconds to keep me from pulling my offer he he he

    Like


  47. on June 19, 2009 at 2:28 pm Gunslingergregi

    ohh you missed your chance thank you for your time you have a nice night.

    Like


  48. I think I might have chubbed out a little, too.
    ?
    Also, the moxie. Jeez.

    i would think this has more chance of working on better-looking women (so long as there is attraction). 5’s and 6’s have probably had their fair share of blatant propositioning from dudes in bars. Honestly I can see it going either way. By the end of the night, probably every one has experience getting blatantly propositioned.

    If I was going to go for this I think it would include a weak ‘no’, not a ‘waiting for my boyfriend’. Also, I’m almost positive my response would be almost exactly “How many women has this worked on?” … stalling while you think.

    Like


  49. It seems like she tried to get you to qualify yourself and you walked right into her trap. A better response would have been.

    yeah, i’m aware i didn’t execute the AO perfectly in line with the schematics, but i got the gist of it out there.

    i agree with some of the commenters that the AO is really intended as a closing time maneuver on an unswooped chick.

    Like


  50. @poetry- OK, thirty minutes. obviously move on immediately to a different subject, but keep the vibe sexual and humorous. usual getting-to-know-you talk mixed in. buy her a drink or two. kino escalate, DHVs, negs. all the usual stuff, except it’s more charged because the sex proposition is still hanging in the air. it’s assumed you’re attracted to him or you wouldn’t have stuck around. at :30, he says- “thirty minutes are up. ready to head out now?”

    how do you respond?

    Like


  51. I could possibly see it working early in the night. Say she says no, and you say okay, and walk away and go chill with friends or whatever. If you did it correctly (no weirdness!), she won’t stop thinking about it, and would probably return later after a drink or two.

    Like


  52. on June 19, 2009 at 2:42 pm Marcus Aureliette

    Oh and before the objections come, being a prude about drugs = beta.

    Way to nip it in the bud, Joe!

    Like


  53. I like Patrick’s response above. I was thinking the exact same thing, roissy’s response doesn’t ultimately convey the sexually charged proposition that the 3-line AO does.

    That said…

    roissy, you have giant balls of steel.

    Like


  54. @al – you’re a girl. think of what “chubbed out” might mean for a body part you lack. if that’s what you meant to ask by your question mark. and you’d still say “no” even if the dude was, say, Javier Bardem? there’s *no* circmstacne you could imagine saying yes…?

    @kam- could work that way, but could backfire. she tells her friends, she tells others, and pretty soon every female in the bar either thinks you’re a pervert or wishes you had come to them first. probably the former, in this country. best in isolation and late in the night.

    Like


  55. too bad you left the bar. would have been good to see the delayed effect. as with asshole game, the immediate response may be defensive, but with solid attraction created she will gravitate back to you over the following two hours or weeks.

    i also wonder why you say you wouldn’t try this on a true hottie. because you can’t bring yourself to do it? or because you think it might not work? hotties can require harder game — so it might work better.

    consider this: to a 6 the AO is somewhat degrading, making her think: “i am not worth any investment on his part. he won’t even pretend to seduce me. he just wants me to hand it over. i’ve had this experience before.”

    to a 9 on the other hand the implication may be entirely different: “he thinks he can get me without any pretense of investment. i’ve never experienced this. he’s hot.”

    in short, the AO — though it is direct game — may function as an indirect neg and therefore *only* work right on hotter girls.

    Like


  56. i agree with some of the commenters that the AO is really intended as a closing time maneuver on an unswooped chick.

    don’t you think it makes for a great (if anything, unique) opener?

    Like


  57. lurker:
    1) she talked 3 times as much about herself as asked me questions.

    inconclusive. some girls talk a lot when they’re nervous. usually, though, when a girl is attracted to you, she asks you questions.

    2) even though me made out and held hands the night we met (while drunk) she gave one french kiss, eschewed holding hands, and said, “i go slow, that first night was an anomoly.”

    ASD. she’s ashamed. not uncommon. you should say “i go even slower. hope you can control yourself.”

    3) militant. vegan.

    ugh. vegans don’t lubricate well because they dont get enough fat and protein. and they’re control freaks. eat a juicy steak in front of her, making sure to let it dribble down your chin for maximum impact.

    4) wants to segue into acting.

    aimless. sefl-absorbed. narcissistic. she’s a former slut who would like to redeem herself on your time. don’t give her that.

    5) Former fattie

    here is what i wrote about former fatties:

    “Yet another goldmine for the beta who wants to taste the forbidden fruit of exceptional pussy. A former fatty, by dint of her painful past dealing with the cold stares of indifference and sneers of cruelty, will be grounded and grateful for male attention. A former fatty’s mindset is still that of the fat girl she left behind – the mind changes slower than the body. The time to strike is when her memories are strong and her reconstructed body is tight. The fatter a former fatty was, the more appreciative she will be of your romantic interest. A 300 pound whale who slims down to a svelte 120 pounds will attack you sexually with the zeal of a released inmate let loose in a brothel after 20 years in the hole.

    Caution: The longer a former fatty is skinny, the more her soul will twist into the corrupted spectre of a self-absorbed egomaniac princess. You’ll want to catch her before her horrible memories fade (think “Silence of the Heifers”), she swaps loyal down to earth friends for superficial hottie friends, and hundreds of betas throw themselves at her feet.”

    http://roissy.wordpress.com/2008/08/01/the-easiest-way-to-bang-a-hot-chick/

    6) dressed down (leather jacket, unremarkable jeans)

    low maintenance. she’s just given you plenty of neg material.

    7) hands folded across chest for much of the ngiht.

    probably the worst sign from this whole list. give it a week before calling her.

    Like


  58. on June 19, 2009 at 2:50 pm smoothvirus

    i agree with some of the commenters that the AO is really intended as a closing time maneuver on an unswooped chick.

    all the more reason to try it about 9PM.

    Like


  59. poetry…I think at that point I would just grab you by your hair and lead you out…

    Like


  60. stagetwo:
    consider this: to a 6 the AO is somewhat degrading, making her think: “i am not worth any investment on his part. he won’t even pretend to seduce me. he just wants me to hand it over. i’ve had this experience before.”

    to a 9 on the other hand the implication may be entirely different: “he thinks he can get me without any pretense of investment. i’ve never experienced this. he’s hot.”

    this is a good point.

    Like


  61. on June 19, 2009 at 2:52 pm Do I look like a people person?

    Roissy, the British comedians Armstong & Miller have a much more effective AO

    Like


  62. on June 19, 2009 at 2:52 pm Pope Goaz D'Weezil

    Love the idea of the audio.

    Also, 14% would be phenomenal. Think about how quickly you can run this game. All the time it takes is selection plus 45 seconds. The sheer volume of attempts you could churn through is enticing.

    Like


  63. knowing what we know now about you.

    Like


  64. The whole point of the AO is to get an immediate visceral reaction – if it doesn’t get the right reaction (lust) then it’s no good. After delivering a line like that you can’t go back to indirect and trying to build comfort. The game is up.

    It is meant to be a last call (you can’t go round the whole bar using the line) and lone target approach (if there’s any of her friends around they will cock block).

    Like


  65. It seems that the AO on drunk chicks misses the point, I think that it works sort of like this video,

    maybe slight buzz, she still has options, she’s attractive, not used to direct game done well and confidently by a sober guy.

    Like


  66. @maurice, huh. Whoops.
    Anyways, I have no idea if this would work on me (but I just a girl so why not?) … what I meant to say was I’d expect eventual success to be preceded by a “does this usually work” to stall or a “nooooo?” so I could be convinced.

    An 8 or a 9 may be so sick of feeling ‘objectived’ and only valued for her looks that this opener pisses her off … while a 6 may be thrilled to be *so hot* the guy didn’t even care about her rocking personality. Who knows?

    Like


  67. Surprised no one bought this up, but Roissy, this:

    “I just… I mean, it’s sort of OUT THERE, you know?”

    I shrugged my shoulders. “Maybe compared to the average guy.”

    Is a perfect response. Seems like it’s worth noting.

    Like


  68. How about this AO:

    “Do you have a GNP?”

    Peter

    Like


  69. @roissy, lurker – how does former fattie square with having been the frat-house slut in college? i read that to mean she couldn’t have been *too* fat, or was overweight in HS and slimmed up in college – i.e., many years ago. in other words, she’s out of that newly-slim zone you talked about, and any weight self-esteem issues (no male attention) are gone. she has the opposite problem: slut self-esteem issues.

    Like


  70. What a rush reading that. But linking to old posts can come back to haunt you. What ever happened to the “you dress exactly like my mother” neg? How’d you fare?

    Like


  71. Heh.

    In one of the first conversations my boyfriend and I had about game, he said that before he “had game,” he couldn’t carry on a conversation with a normal girl to save his life…so his “game” consisted of the apocalypse opener.

    He says it worked well.

    Like


  72. She actually gave me this run down:
    200lbs in 8th grade (5’2″)—played first base/cleaned up for her softball team.

    One day in high school, freaked out from some 20/20 thing on fat people, lost 100lbs in 10 months.

    Then went to college

    Roissy, thanks for the perspective. What do you think of my other posts with info, i.e. she really wanted to discuss her sports injuries/scars in detail, and she joined the Mormon church for the strucure but resists it?

    Like


  73. how does former fattie square with having been the frat-house slut in college?

    depends how fat she was. chubby chicks with decent faces are often the sluttiest chicks around because of their low self esteem coupled with the fact that they’re not fat enough to completely turn off horny drunk frat boys who just want a no muss no fuss pump and dump at 3am they can hide from their friends.

    the really fat chicks (50+ pounds over normal weight) are the ones who sit at home crying in their ben and jerrys.

    Like


  74. @roissy, stagetwo- yeah, AO could be viewed (if done right) as the ultimate DHV for a man. he asks the question as if he expects the answer to be yes, like Javier Bardem. and holds the frame – that part is critical. Like Javier does in the clip.

    i’m not sure about the differing reactions from 6 vs 8/9 women. i think it depends more on their personalities and sexual history etc. than their looks.

    Like


  75. A poster at Sosuave named dbot ran a modified AO experiement last fall. Also a 14% success rate, which sounds unremarkable until you read the fine print: he landed 14 1-hour f-closes in just over 3 weeks.

    Fourteen closes in 21+ days. Not bad.

    http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=153414

    Like


  76. i got it right – she slimmed down before college. 200 lbs at 5’2″ ? geez she should have been on the bowling team- she could’ve been the ball. (sorry – couldn’t resist. won’t happen again.) that’s worrisome over the long term – genetics are involved and there are secular trends. rest assured she will not be slim in her 40s.

    @LILGRL – well, he’s a good-looking dude, so not surprising.

    what happened with the job? Did you get “Wired” or “PC World” ?

    Like


  77. They found 3 successful attempts out of 22 correctly done AOs. A 14%ish success rate for men with above average, but not expert, Game.

    14% success rate is pretty high. most guys would kill for a lay on every 1 or 2 out of 10 cold approaches.
    note: i really don’t think the AO would work very well for ugly guys, but i could be wrong.

    Audio files? Of actual field conversations/approaches?

    yes.
    speaking of which, can anyone recommend a quality but not too expensive mini voice recorder that will pick up one on one conversation in a noisy bar and that i can hide in my clothing?

    Like


  78. btw, I think you should try this down at the waterfront; happy hour there is like a siren song for twitness and putting out. I’ve seen my friends pull things there that don’t even work at $2 pabst nights.

    (or did, maybe the dems have changed the city, but I doubt it.)

    Like


  79. @ maurice

    still waiting to hear back from WIRED, am at PC World as we speak.

    new iPhone what whaaat

    Like


  80. Mo, agreed, although she did claim she was the only fat one in her family (planting the seed, perhaps?).

    She has a severe case of forgotten child syndrome—her sisters were all smarter and prettier than her (she’s a 7, be an 8 with losing a few pounds and scaling back on her overworked makeup), and though she claimed she “loved” her father, when she gave examples of him, it was always negative.

    So I think being forgotten, she gorged herself to assauge her pain.

    Did I mention she dropped out of college for 2 years and then went back? And became a social worker in those 2 years?

    Like


  81. p.s this is really helpful guys, thanks.

    Like


  82. well, you had that in the bag, and it’s not a bad gig. congrats and good luck w/ Wired…

    i have an iPod touch and the only thing I wouldn’t like about an iPhone is the touch-screen – i text a lot, and quickly, and the touch screen really hinders that. I love it for the iPod, not sure i would for the phone/data where lots of typing is required. i’m sure i’d get used to it if i got one though.

    also i have Verizon because in DC at least, the coverage and quality of reception is way better that AT&T. CDMA is superior in that regard.

    @al – you mean the DC waterfront? the marina one (maine ave) or the georgetown one (sequoias etc.)? i’m at the latter all the time and will be located right by the former beginning in the fall.

    do tell about some “things” that you saw “pulled” – as you can see we love to dissect case-studies here.

    and no – the dems didn’t “change the town” – they are the town! most of it, anyway …

    Like


  83. @ maurice

    “well, he’s a good-looking dude, so not surprising.”

    heh. luckily, he’d upgraded his game to HEX by the time he met me.

    Like


  84. That line would not make me go home with the guy b/c I never go home with anyone I just met. And only go to bars / clubs strictly to hang out w/ friends.

    But it would get him a laugh and a conversation, if he didn’t have a creepy vibe.

    Like


  85. @ maurice

    thank you.

    to tell you the truth, PC World (and tech reviews, etc.) excites me more than does WIRED…(but WIRED pays better)

    we shall see.

    i’m not an iFan, that’s just the big news in the office today. i have a touchscreen phone tho, and it works pretty well with typing (LG Dare what what!)

    i also have Verizon and its superior service…we can call each other…FOR FREE!

    Like


  86. @LILGRL – are you trying to pick me up? Send me your cell # in hex and I’ll see what I can do. 😉 unless you were saying your hot bf has Verizon, and you can whisper sweet nothings for nothing!

    if you’re happier there, then all is good – it’s great experience at a minimum. i think Wired is in some serious financial trouble so there’s that to consider as well.

    i was never a big Apple fan until the iPod came along – that was my first taste of the Steve Kool-Aid. it’s such a perfect product. Won’t go down the Mac road yet, though… we’ll see.

    Like


  87. LILGRL boasted that:

    …he’d upgraded his game to HEX by the time he met me.

    Phhhft! HEX game is old. Everyone is using binary game now. I mean this guy is 11101 (from earlier documentation) and he is still running hex game?

    Time to 404, I would say. At least a 302, if you are feeling generous.
    [I doubt you are the type to go 402]

    Like


  88. @ maurice

    haha, believe it! hex is sexy. hehe.

    um, no, obviously if i were trying to pick you up, i would say…

    hey maurice

    what are you doing later?

    wanna come over?

    hold…

    hold…

    HOLD!!!!

    (see, i learn some things)

    try not to be creepy

    KEEP HOLDING IN NON-CREEPY MANNER

    and…well, yeah.

    Like


  89. @ Default

    I believe he did start binary’ing it up later that night. He was trying to mix it up, see? He knew that mere Hex or Bin game alone would not be sufficient to woo such a nerd as myself.

    Smart boy.

    Like


  90. Default User = Most reliable source of laughs on this blog.

    Like


  91. Can we nip the attention-whoring-fest in the bud now? Please?

    Like


  92. … along with the G Manifesto, of course.

    Like


  93. LILGRL

    I am afraid I am not as smart as you two. I had to use MS Calculator to work out the hex/binary stuff. I could not do it in my head.

    My sole use of hex is coding colors in HTML and some graphics programs. Converting dec to hex in your head counts is pretty cool (well smart anyway).

    Like


  94. Master Dogen

    Thanks.

    And linked with the G-Man, very cool.

    Time to get in my Bugatti, grab some e-tabs (and a scientific calculator for binary game) and swoop some fly chicks.

    Like


  95. ok, deliver the line, be confident…maintain eye contact?

    Like


  96. @ Default

    e-tabs and binary game.

    you will pwn.

    Like


  97. Yeah, I’ve tried it twice in my whole life. My track record: 0/2.

    Like


  98. @LILGRL- ha. AO goes from men to women, not women to men. as does this kind of game in general. in the alternate universe in which a hot girl walks up to a random guy and pulls that, the answer is never no, and it’s never even theoretically viewed as creepy. desperate, maybe, but even that’s not a problem. guys never say no to sex with reasonably attractive women. the whole thing is dramatically different if it comes from a woman, because of that asymmetry. i know you were joking, but just sayin’…

    @default – you are on fire today, my friend! great stuff. the “G” keyboard line literally made me laugh out loud yesterday at the bar where i was hanging out. although the binary calculator is definitely the thing that is not like the others in GMan world. and i doubt LILGRL is GMan’s type …

    Like


  99. “A poster at Sosuave named dbot ran a modified AO experiement last fall. Also a 14% success rate”

    Thanks. That’s cool that both links found 14%.

    The Apocalypse Opener is actually the only approach with results in published science journals.

    There the results range from 0%-6%.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16279298

    Like


  100. @Gunslingergregi
    Good reaction, but then you’re hoping that your target is a girl willing to chase, that will fall for that tactic. If you walk away after that thirty seconds and she doesn’t go after you it looks like she just shot you down to everyone in the vicinity.

    @askjoe
    That’d work with me, yes. But you’d have to be a very good judge of the situation to pull that off with some random girl. Most of my female friends would panic/attack if a guy did that to them.

    @maurice
    You just gave me exactly what I asked for. You just submitted. You’re either very confident in your abilities or… not so much. I’m assuming the former. If a girl is going to sass you like in the situation I tossed up, you’ve got to take and keep control. I do stuff like this constantly with guys. If he starts showing me his belly, I might one-night him if he’s hot. Maybe… but probably not. He’s got to keep up, he’s got to show he’s smart, that he can roll with it and keep up with my flow, that he can keep it sexual, that he can always one-up me. That’s what makes a regular partner, that’s what defines the guys that I let text me at 3AM on a workday and tell me that I better get my ass over there because they don’t feel like jerking off. The negs are good, the game is good, it shows me you know what you’re doing, it shows me you’ve put effort into it and you’ve probably got a decent success rate which means a high partner count and significant sexual experience, which is something I value in my partners.

    But, then, it always depends on what you’re looking to get out of the encounter.

    So, to answer your question, when he asks if I’m ready to go home with him… he’ll already know. If he did his job right, and illustrated to me the things I need to know, the ways I judge him, he’ll already be aware by my body language, my the amount of touching (and the locations of) if I’m game. Good signs are if I’m asking where his place is, if he has work in the next morning, if he has roommates, how the parking is in that area, and when he was last tested. Standard logistics. If he can’t figure it out from all that, I really don’t want him.

    Like


  101. on June 19, 2009 at 4:44 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    I am afraid I am not as smart as you two. I had to use MS Calculator to work out the hex/binary stuff. I could not do it in my head.

    The real shit is when you convert decimals, and formerly terminating decimals start to repeat.

    Just to be clear, this conversation is not actually happening. What conversation?

    Like


  102. on June 19, 2009 at 4:50 pm The Alchemist

    This is not intended as a closing time routine. The whole point of the routine is to throw the girl off balance with your display of raw confidence and get her intrigued enough to come back to you later or keep the current conversation going long enough to pull a close.

    It’s very important to stack forward and go into fluff talk or new material with extreme nonchalance, right after you drop the question on her. The effect is that the girl won’t even have time to process what just happened because your pushing forward, taking her mind away from something very extraordinary that just happened. It willl completely throw her off.

    The likelihood of getting a flat out yes is very slim. I would bet like 1-5% for a good looking guy. An average or less than decent looking guy will get 0% success rate for a flat out yes. But, i would bet many guys will have much better success getting a “no” but having the girl revisit you later or sticking with the conversation out of sheer intrigue if the rest of your game is tight.

    I need to try this…great way to warm up for the night….everything else would be a cake walk, in comparison.

    Like


  103. on June 19, 2009 at 4:50 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    in the alternate universe in which a hot girl walks up to a random guy and pulls that, the answer is never no, and it’s never even theoretically viewed as creepy. desperate, maybe, but even that’s not a problem.

    Maurice, girls do this all the time in our current universe. ALL THE TIME.

    The difference?

    They don’t use words to do it.

    Like


  104. maurice

    you are on fire today, my friend! great stuff.

    although the binary calculator is definitely the thing that is not like the others in GMan world.

    Thanks.

    And I too am smiling at the thought of G-Man with a scientific calculator. Like you said one of these things does not belong.

    Like


  105. Funny that this was invented by a scotchman. One of my good manky Scottish buddies around here, GMac used this line to meet his future wife. GMac was always quite smashed in the bars, and had a certain jolly way about him. This is how it went down with him:
    *ambles up to hot chick he never spoke to before*
    “Hey,”
    *looks at nonexistent watch*
    “it’s closing time, and you look all right: d’ye want to go back to my place?”

    There is a variant of this in the goth scene. “Nice boots; wanna fuck?” Really, all you have to say is “nice boots.” But goth chicks haven’t been hot since the 90s. I suppose you could use the same tactic on any other female who gives you the hairy eyeball.

    Like


  106. on June 19, 2009 at 4:58 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    Also.

    This thread is seriously undervaluing the importance of READING THE GIRL.

    If you don’t see at least some attraction written on her as you approach, then, nothing to see here, move on.

    If you see attraction, then there are basically 2 cases.

    (1) “Friendly” attraction: Her attraction is open and inviting.
    If this is the case, then, ironically, this sort of overly direct game probably won’t work. You have to (yikes) make conversation first.

    (2) “Challenging” attraction: You see signs of attraction in her body language, but that language also says, “shit test shit test shit test”.
    If this is the case, green light.
    You can kill about 10 shit tests with one stone with this opener.

    Like


  107. You got balls my friend. Posts were great this week.

    Like


  108. i see a little G Manifesto in your response.

    Nice read. i was chuckling the whole time. too bad it didn’t work. it probably works better on 8s and up.

    Like


  109. “The whole point of the routine is to throw the girl off balance with your display of raw confidence”

    That’s what I got out of it too, check out the link I posted to earlier, dude and HB were not drunk, not closing time, he just put nards on display.

    Like


  110. on June 19, 2009 at 5:02 pm Gunslingergregi

    Conversation is for after you are done fucking.

    Like


  111. on June 19, 2009 at 5:05 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    I need to try this…great way to warm up for the night….everything else would be a cake walk, in comparison.

    I find the almost universal nature of this sentiment to be … um, interesting.

    Compared to trying to remember memorized “lines” while “on stage”, the OA is as easy as the day is long.

    Of course, I really do believe that any girl who doesn’t get to be fucked by me is missing out on the zenith of earthly delights.
    And, I’ve never really cared one way or the other about failure. I prefer to refer to failure as “pre-success”.
    I suppose this mentality helps.

    Like


  112. As far as voice recorders go, the Olymput WS-320M is pretty high quality – for good reception on anything, though, you’d want to invest in a small external mic.

    Like


  113. @ maurice

    i’m glad you “know” i’m joking…

    hahahahaha

    “and i doubt LILGRL is GMan’s type …”

    as much as i ❤ g manifesto, it is he who is not my type…

    87, on the other hand…

    “The real shit is when you convert decimals, and formerly terminating decimals start to repeat.”

    mmm.

    Like


  114. on June 19, 2009 at 5:11 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    “The real shit is when you convert decimals, and formerly terminating decimals start to repeat.”

    Where’d you get that? I never said that.

    That conversation never happened.

    Wait, what?

    Like


  115. @ 87

    Deny away, I’m sure your girlfriend thinks it’s H O T.

    Like


  116. on June 19, 2009 at 5:16 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    Lurker,

    Roissy, what books would recommend for someone wanting to learn PUA? What should be my first purchase?

    “Purchase”?

    Your first purchase should be the following advice: Go to a rapidshare search, such as ineedfile.com, and download practically every classic work of The Community for free.

    That’ll be $25.92, please.

    By the way, if you can stand BAD BAD BAD writing, you should check out the oeuvre of Swinggcat. If you can get past the syntax, his stuff is pretty good, and he even gives you homework to do.

    Like


  117. @epoxy – right, i was talking about the AO line, not female pickup in general.

    @poetry – thanks, interesting. i didn’t really view talking for 30 minutes as submitting because.. what’s the alternative? say “no – my way or the highway? decide right now?” that’s inviting a blowout. and of course it’s assumed during the subsequent conversation that the guy is doing all those things right, the things you mentioned. basically you gave him space to qualify himself … jump through your hoops .. okay, it is submitting. but again, what’s the alternative? when you open with “let’s fuck” and the answer is “maybe”, don’t you have to strut your stuff a little to get to “yes” ?

    Like


  118. on June 19, 2009 at 5:17 pm Kick a Bitch

    FUCKING AWESOME!!! Yes! Please record your pickup attempts for us to listen to. 🙂

    Like


  119. on June 19, 2009 at 5:24 pm Gunslingergregi

    Maurice there are like 4.5 billion woman on the planet. You don’t need to worry about blowouts just bjs.

    Like


  120. @LILGRL- yeah, i know i flunked the LILGRL e-flirt test by reverting to my usual turgid prose.

    I bet GMan could definitely swoop you, though. binary-hex conversions are no match for the Brioni suits, Cuban cigars and macho ‘tude. some things are universal.

    @lurker – i like “magic bullets” by savoy (love systems), and they just came out with a second book of openers.

    @87 – no point in denying geekdom here. it’s a point of pride – hell, you have a hot girl chatting you up because of it.

    Like


  121. “Since the AO has such potential for generating humorous and humiliating stories, I plan to purchase a small voice recorder that I will hide under my shirt when I do future AO attempts. Then I will post the audio on my blog for your edification. If you don’t hear any sound after I say the opener, that means I’m getting some.”

    Wont miss that.

    ***

    I am not a King in Alphadom. I do some indirect game, with occasional success.

    I think my best assets on pickup, are: I look good (tall, caucasian, black hair, large shoulders, clean and well dressed) and… I started flirting early. At 14 I would hit on older girls (18, 19) while they were using the public phone. Or even manage to get in clubs (in Brazil, age restriction wasnt serious until very recently). In other words, I no longer experiment too much anxiety – rather adrenaline.

    So I was in the bathroom, and faced myself in the mirror. Inside my soul, I gathered every ounce of serene yet raw honesty.

    Then I imagined the scene. All inside my head (maybe I should have spoke out loud). After the last sentence was spoken in the stage of my mind, I could feel my balls shrink.

    No previous ease with approachings helped. Like a boxing match, there is no time out for things like an Apocalipse Opener.

    I trust that the adrenaline of the moment can be a powerful fuel to such approach. And that my lone experiment – wich I tried to make as safe as possible from subconscious criticism – may be infected thus.

    Though, I do think I’m still not ready for the Apocalypse Opener. Even having previously used very direct approaches before.

    Those 30 seconds… I will get there, soon.

    Like


  122. Yeah, it would be sweet for you to record them, but I bet you will not.

    Like


  123. I did use the AO in a “gentleman’s club” i.e. whorehouse. Since I was paying, I could have said pretty much anything, but given the uber-beta crowd in the place, a series of men in the 25-50 range incapable of looking at the girls’eyes during conversation, arms crossed, talking with the girls about political corruption, well, once I used the AO there it kind of put me above the beta crowd instantaneously.

    got the numbers of two girls. The second time, I bet, I’ll fuck them or free. it is G manifesto life: hugo boss shirt, act as if you own the place, befriend bouncers, stays at the bar surveying the room, use the AO, fuck 2 girls (but not at the same time) paying the price of one, get two numbers, and my sexual activity next will probably start at monday of tuesday

    Like


  124. on June 19, 2009 at 5:29 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    @87 – no point in denying geekdom here. it’s a point of pride – hell, you have a hot girl chatting you up because of it.

    Seriously. Geeks up.

    Not just useful for pickup, either.
    When I was in eighth grade and just learning to fuck, I could stave off premature ejaculation by doing Fourier series in my head. That shit was sharp like a sawtooth wave, and smooth like the infinity symbol.

    Wait, what?

    Like


  125. @gunny- ha, yeah, but that’s not the kind of exchange we were having. it’s about how to use this particular line and follow-through, not necessarily about any given outcome. no worries – blowouts are going to happen most of the time with this line anyway.

    @87 – so what do you consider the classic works of The Community?

    Like


  126. side note, since yesterday was my first time in a gentleman’s club in many years, I revised the literature about the subject thoroughly. I mean, I went to this blog and G manifesto’s blog and searched for “stripper” or “exotic dancer”.

    Roissy’s tips are mostly BS on the stripper stuff. But G manifesto’s are spot on. he only forgot about the payment. I don’t know how common is for people to clone credit cards in the US, but it is common enough here for me to carry cash enough to avoid using the card.

    Like


  127. @87

    if epoxitocyn is not a geek nick, than nothing is

    Like


  128. @LILGRL- i still don’t buy that hex story, but if you insist it happened that way, then what can I say … all’s well in the world of hot-geek love…

    @lurker – stranger and stranger, less and less stable. a little more damaged than you originally let on. txt a thank-you-for-date msg with a saucy sex double-entendre, then wait for her to contact you.

    Like


  129. @gig – yeah, i can see how it could probably work better in that kind of place, maybe – you’d get your share of working girls, obviously.

    @87 – wow, that is indeed hardcore geekdom. i thought i was a math geek in HS, but that is an order of magnitude more than me. i usually thought of an ugly girl, or something unpleasant in general.

    Like


  130. on June 19, 2009 at 5:38 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    Also, Lurker, three more tips my man.

    (1)
    Make sure that your ratio of sarging to reading is high enough.

    The WORST thing you can do is read all the pickup books you can get your hands on, all at once, and then go out and spit some half-ass clusterfuck version of all of them melded together.

    You should read, at most, one chapter of one book before you go out again to try.

    (2)
    YOU are the artist here. This means two things: (a) Some shit you read just won’t work for you. Don’t be afraid to throw away what doesn’t work, even if it sounds fantastic. (b) Don’t use anything verbatim. Put your own spin on shit and do it your way.
    In short, run your game, not someone else’s. Be inspired, but don’t plagiarize.

    (3)
    You need to get your mind right.
    The words are about 5% of your game, and your presence is the other 95%.

    Good luck.

    Like


  131. Maurice,

    I like leaving things open. It allows the guy’s flavor, his personal style to come through… if he is comfortable enough with himself to do so.

    This is basically your opportunity to do what makes your style -yours-, but tailor it (through your knowledge gained from previous experiences) to a girl like me.

    Gunslingergregi turned it back to me, aggressive, dominant, making me chase him.
    Askjoe turned it physical, responding to what he (correctly) perceived as my base need to be dominated by a stronger force.

    I’m sure there are many other styles, but I have been semi-active in this online community for… what, three weeks tops?

    The point is, by sassing you (but not outright rejecting you, meaning that I at least find you physically attractive), I’m indirectly telling you that I need to be dominated. You need to show me, in whatever your strong suit is, that you are capable and willing of doing that. If the verbal banter, escalating kino, sexual tension building is your forte, then I’ve just given you thirty minutes to blow my mind. You just have to make sure that you start strong.

    If the situation was reversed, my follow up to the, “You have thirty minutes to prove you’re worth it,” line would be something like…

    “I have to put effort into this?? You better give damn good head.”

    Like


  132. Thanks all.

    Like


  133. Bravo.

    I’ve not tried this yet but it does look like fun.

    It’s easy to criticize from the sidelines and say what should have been done but I will throw my 2 cents from past experience.

    Probably the most difficult part of this–and the most key–is to anticipate a positive outcome.

    I compare it to a guy who has liked a girl for a while and spills his guts to her that he’s into her.

    Sometimes there’s no other way to do it.

    But in order for her to reciprocate, he would have to do it in a way that allowed for her to reciprocate. In other words, if he did it on the phone or in an e-mail–probably bad news.

    But if he got her in a good place, preferably alone with a great big bed nearby, and then expected her to kiss him or jump his bones, it would have a much higher chance.

    So I would say deliver the opening lines with an expectation of what is coming next. It will show in your body language whether you are expecting her to jump you or throw a drink on you.

    That’s the where the weirdness non-weirdness comes in.

    Perhaps I will make an evening of this.

    Eric

    Like


  134. Poetry of Flesh said:

    He’s got to keep up, he’s got to show he’s smart, that he can roll with it and keep up with my flow, that he can keep it sexual, that he can always one-up me. That’s what …defines the guys that I let text me at 3AM on a workday and tell me that I better get my ass over there because they don’t feel like jerking off.

    that’s kind of interesting.

    so, when do you drop the game? I bet you get spanked a lot – slapped too.

    Like


  135. on June 19, 2009 at 5:45 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    Maurice,

    The “Mystery Method Venusian Arts Handbook” is still the definitive work. There is a sequel, “Revelations”.

    There are archives of Style’s old posts from seduction usenet boards.

    There’s Magic Bullets, and the Swinggcat stuff.

    That all said, you really, really, REALLY shouldn’t need more than one pickup book. They’re all variations on the same theme.
    If you think you need more than one pickup book, then either (a) you aren’t going out enough, (b) you’re being too literal and not reading for the big picture, or (c) both.

    Gig,

    I came up with the word “epoxytocin” in this comment.

    When I really get going, my ratio of made-up words to real words is way too high to be acceptable.

    Like


  136. @ maurice

    “yeah, i know i flunked the LILGRL e-flirt test by reverting to my usual turgid prose.”

    well, you were doing a pretty good job for a lil while, there

    “no point in denying geekdom here. it’s a point of pride – hell, you have a hot girl chatting you up because of it.”

    right? and see how aloof he’s being. psh.

    though, THIS:

    “YOU are the artist here. This means two things: (a) Some shit you read just won’t work for you. Don’t be afraid to throw away what doesn’t work, even if it sounds fantastic. (b) Don’t use anything verbatim. Put your own spin on shit and do it your way.
    In short, run your game, not someone else’s. Be inspired, but don’t plagiarize.”

    is so true…

    run game that’ll work for you…all game won’t work for all guys…

    srsly.

    Like


  137. on June 19, 2009 at 5:51 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    Poetry of Flesh,

    The point is, by sassing you (but not outright rejecting you, meaning that I at least find you physically attractive), I’m indirectly telling you that I need to be dominated.

    By being female, you’re indirectly telling men that you need to be dominated.

    Firepower,

    so, when do you drop the game?

    Have you ever had a relationship that has lasted longer than two days?

    Women don’t “drop the game” unless they’re ready to drop you.

    The good thing is that the game is fun to play.

    Maurice,

    i usually thought of an ugly girl, or something unpleasant in general.

    That would have been better.
    See, I tried Cantor sets first, but those were so HOTT that I ejaculated on the spot. Oh well, at least no chick has ever told me I have measure zero.

    This conversation did not happen, either.

    Like


  138. @ 87

    kudos to you for your nick, then.

    @ poetry of flash

    would you inform us about the number of sexual partners that you have had in your life?

    Like


  139. as much as i ❤ g manifesto, it is he who is not my type…

    oh brother…

    Like


  140. Epoxytocin No. 87

    Firepower,

    Have you ever had a relationship that has lasted longer than two days?

    not if I can help it

    Like


  141. on June 19, 2009 at 6:02 pm Gunslingergregi

    So you see how after that 30 seconds and walk off on your own after dropping the apocalypse when they don’t respond. You have now gotten inside their head. It is you they will be thinking about late at night under the covers hoping they get a chance to see you again and that you give them a second chance. They are like did he just thank me and walk off after that wtf. Did that just happen?

    Like


  142. I highly recommend that you check out “ModeOne: Let the women know what you’re really thinking. ” by Alan roger currie.

    The problem is that you are treating the so called “apocalypse” opener as a “magic trick/words” instead of having a direct philosophy mindset.

    ps: a better line would have been a leading one

    ex:” I think we should share each others company intimately sometimes in the near future”

    check out this post

    Modeone Vs mystery method
    http://modeone.blogspot.com/2007/02/mode-one-vs-mystery-method.html

    and

    http://www.pick-up-artist-forum.com/unbeatable-combination-mystery-method-and-mode-1-vt10950.html

    best

    Like


  143. That’s all I did when I was a kid. Worked like a charm. When you’re 20, in good shape, and really have nothing more than an innocent compulsion to make love to a woman, over and over, nobody holds that against you.

    In fact, the AO was pretty much all I had, and it did the trick — especially with the really good-looking girls, because expressing a desire to have them come over was nothing but an honest expression of my intent. Now that I’m all grown up, I have to go through these shit tests and all the rest, and I’m not interested in that crap.

    However, I wouldn’t say “do you want to come home with me?” I’d say “do you want to come over to my place and hang out?” It was more an invitation to spend some time alone and see if we had chemistry, and if so we’d be having a good time together that night.

    What I really want to know now is how to get them to stop shit testing. And then get them to stop bragging about their advanced degrees and such (I don’t give a damn).

    Like


  144. Rain And:

    The Apocalypse Opener is actually the only approach with results in published science journals.

    There the results range from 0%-6%.

    In Clark and Hatfields classic study “Gender Differences in Receptivity to Sexual Offers” (1989), these were the questions:

    Would you go out with me tonight? (53% of the women and 50% of the men said yes)
    Would you come over to my apartment tonight? (3% vs. 69%)
    Would you go to bed with me tonight? (0% vs. 75%)

    The Apocalypse Opener is not as direct as it gets, which would account for the high acceptance rate of 14%. Even Clark and Hatfield got 3% of women to agree to come over to the man’s apartment. So what should one say if the woman asks what are we going to do there? Saying sex would probably cut your chances to essentially zero. Women nearly always need some kind of excuse even if you both know that sex is the point.

    I am absolutely amazed that the revisited study from 2005 got a 6.1% acceptance rate from women. If true, one doesn’t even really need game. All you need is to be able to take a lot of rejection and eventually you will get laid.

    Like


  145. on June 19, 2009 at 6:08 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    not if I can help it

    Too bad.

    One-nighters are sweet, but sex can only be taken to The Next Level when it’s invested with emotions.

    Like


  146. on June 19, 2009 at 6:09 pm Gunslingergregi

    Find a woman who can’t read best thing I ever did.

    Like


  147. on June 19, 2009 at 6:14 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    Welmer,

    That’s all I did when I was a kid. Worked like a charm. When you’re 20, in good shape, and really have nothing more than an innocent compulsion to make love to a woman, over and over, nobody holds that against you.

    Yes.

    Or a decidedly not-so-innocent compulsion to fuck a woman into a slobbering, dripping coma of oblivion.

    Which is so animalistic and strong that it scares off half of them, and sucks the other half in unawares. Like magnetic poles.

    But I digress.

    When I was twenty, the phrase “make love” would have made me go limp.

    Arpagus,

    I am absolutely amazed that the revisited study from 2005 got a 6.1% acceptance rate from women. If true, one doesn’t even really need game. All you need is to be able to take a lot of rejection and eventually you will get laid.

    Yes and no.

    No: I really shouldn’t have to point this out, but that’s an aggregate percentage. Some guys are going to get a 30+% hit rate (trust me, it happens) and others are going to get a solid 0%.
    In other words, sadly enough, it still depends on who and what you are. Sorry to disappoint.

    Yes: The biggest obstacle in most guys’ way is a refusal to just go out and approach.

    Like


  148. maurice

    @LILGRL – well, he’s a good-looking dude, so not surprising.

    He is, but she should enjoy it while it lasts, because he’s got that look that doesn’t hold up over time. You can see where the corners of the eyes and mouth will fall with time. Within ten years the hairline will have moved back noticeably, and the flesh will have begun to accumulate on the jowls (common in those with a lantern jaw).

    It is interesting how you can see these things even in someone in the full bloom of youth.

    Like


  149. Epoxytocin No. 87

    Too bad.

    One-nighters are sweet, but sex can only be taken to The Next Level when it’s invested with emotions.

    thanks for caring about my sex life – that’s nice of you man – i wish you were a chick

    you could answer what I asked Plenty of Flesh.

    I wonder if she can craft a reply on her own before I go out

    Like


  150. “don’t you think it makes for a great (if anything, unique) opener?”

    Mr M, you moron, you stole my idea!

    Like


  151. Welmer said:

    He is, but she should enjoy it while it lasts, because he’s got that look that doesn’t hold up over time. You can see where the corners of the eyes and mouth will fall with time. Within ten years the hairline will have moved back noticeably, and the flesh will have begun to accumulate on the jowls

    nah, lilgrl will love him when he’s in Depends and has big old mantitties. theirs is a Love to Last Eternity. she loves him for his mind, dewd.

    Like


  152. I once went to a famous techno DJ’s show at the Avalon club in Boston a long time ago. Half way into the evening, these two girls asked me to take their photo. I did. When the one owning the camera asked for it back, I asked “Do I get a kiss in return?”. Boom! Makeout.

    🙂

    Like


  153. @poetry- OK, but askjoe and maybe gunny (who has been absent for a while) knew you have that domination need, because you’ve posted about it before. i did too, but i was approaching it in the abstract, without knowing in advance whether the girl would like to have her hair pulled or was still quietly outraged by the line. epoxy said it earlier – you have to be good at reading people and the situation for this to work. maybe i was missing the cue in viewing your response in the abstract as opposed to your specific personal reaction.

    but you said “sassing” is an invitation to show dominance – in your case yes, but in general it could be read as the opposite, as you pointed out above: jump through my hoops and prove yourself. in general a guy is not going to want to do this, but if the context is *if you do this right i will fuck you in 30 minutes*, then yeah. she’s already given a 3/4 green light by continung the interaction after the “let’s fuck” opener.

    the alternative line, “if you’re making me work for this your bjs better be good”, is an escalation of what is already a maximally aggressive pickup line. done with humor, it continues the interaction, and puts the ball/decision back on her. it does convey domination, but it might scare away some women who might be on the fence at that point. right? not every female in a club is going to be as sexually self-aware and confident as you.

    what would your female response be to your male bj line? she could start to prove herself to him, but that wouldn’t be right in this context. probably she just puts it back on him. if she wants to fuck him anyway, all he has to do is not screw up. if she’s not sure, then he has to show he’s the right type for you, like you said.

    am i overthinking things? *sigh* that’s my style – at least behind a keyboard. that’s the purpose of these threads, to share information about pickup and such. thank god i’m not this way in real life.

    Like


  154. @maurice…yeah I cheated. I wonder if teasing/sassing is code for “spank me.” I also wonder how to read these girls real time.

    Like


  155. hey wait, I got it! It’s almost like, get this…

    chicks dig assholes.

    Like


  156. Firepower,

    Spanked, slapped, play-raped, thrown around like a ragdoll… yeah. It’s delightful. Wouldn’t have it any other way. For the initial encounter, I drop the game when he forces me to. When he realizes that the only way he’s going to win is when he bends me over. Once we’re past that particular hurdle, then I cool off a little. When I’m feeling frisky, I’ll prod him, check his reaction. If he responds positively, I’ll continue. If he doesn’t banter back, I drop it. I try to be sensitive to my partner’s moods. I’m there to please them, which pleases me. Most people don’t like to be on their guard all the time, always ready to get into a verbal sparring match.

    Epoxy,

    Please don’t make me all warm and wet at work- I’ll ruin my chair.

    Gig,

    A bit blunt, heh. I suppose I’ll break it down for you, time-wise/activity-wise, because I don’t know exactly what you wish to learn from this information.

    I’ve been sexually active since about 15 or 16 (didn’t pay attention to the age, sorry). I’m in my mid-twenties now. In there, I’ve been in a total of six committed (and closed) relationships that knocked out 2.5yrs+2yrs+1.5yrs+3mos+8mos+4mos which knocked me out of the field for a total of 7.25 years of those ten. I don’t bother keeping track of my partners anymore, so I’m around 70-80 for “full” partners, and I don’t even want to attempt to guess about oral-only partners.

    If you want, I can get some of my past and current partners to write me letters of reference. I give great head and full-body massages.

    And now I’m going to go laugh at myself somewhere where I’m not surrounded by coworkers.

    Like


  157. That’s awesome. It’s like a turbo version of Richard Feynman’s “are you going to sleep with me?” question test (before buying a girl a drink).

    Like


  158. @PF, so how tall are you? I am curious because at least the petite gals I’ve been with liked being tossed around. I wonder if there is a correlation.

    Like


  159. I’ll try this in colombia (in spanish).

    1. Hola, como estas.

    2. Que haces mas tarde?

    3. Quieres venir conmigo a mi casa?

    Like


  160. @askjoe – point taken. many of them do. but the thread is about the use and follow-through of a “let’s fuck” opener – so not unreasonable to think about how to pull back a bit on the asshole game, for those majority of women who are going to be taken aback by the line. poetry is clearly an outlier kind of woman – you don’t find too many like her in DC clubs. the venn diagram of my life and hers, sadly, would have zero intersection. hence my obtuse missing of her cues.

    @epoxy – cantor sets? i am curious about the disconnect between your math geekdom and pickup savvy. evidently both acquired at an early age.

    Like


  161. ha ha ha

    thisll be interesting.

    Like


  162. .maurice said:

    @poetry- … said “sassing” is an invitation to show dominance – in your case yes, but in general it could be read as the opposite, as you pointed out above: jump through my hoops and prove yourself. in general a guy is not going to want to do this, …

    You understand what I say – I like to have a little fun, but I have my limits as a man and take only so much shit; I may even think she’s hiding some issues behind the Act if she pushes it too far. no man with any balls wants to fuck lisa lampanelli

    …not every female in a club is going to be as sexually self-aware and confident as you

    confidence only gets a girl so far: it depends on how hot she is.

    Like


  163. maurice:

    guys never say no to sex with reasonably attractive women

    The Clark and Hatfield data indicate that they say no 25% of the time, but these men feel obliged to state a reason like “I am married” and you are very right that it is NEVER creepy.

    Like


  164. @FP – agreed, that’s where i was coming from, but i guess my point was after a “let’s fuck” opener and a “maybe” answer, a few hoops are not out of order – as they give you a chance to DHV, control the conversation, etc. all context dependent. also – lisa lampanelli? christ, a diseased homeless retard wouldn’t fuck her.

    Like


  165. .maurice said:

    @FP – agreed, that’s where i was coming from, but i guess my point was after a “let’s fuck” opener and a “maybe” answer, a few hoops are not out of order – as they give you a chance to DHV, control the conversation, etc. all context dependent. also – lisa lampanelli? christ, a diseased homeless retard wouldn’t fuck her.

    yeah, i always talk about what i want to talk about or i’d go insane or walk off. most of their shit is just babble about crap or competing for attention anyway.

    you shouldn’t talk about collegeboy’s mom that way lol. i used lampanelli – couldn’t figure out a current smartass, “ballsy” female comic cast in the mold (literally. ecch) of Roseann Barr – because female comics aren’t funny. I never watch them. Kathy Griffin used to have a nice ass and I dig redheads but all she talks about is celeb ‘dish’ gossip.

    Danyelle Fishel has a nice face and she used to be bangin’. My point is: even if fish lost a few pounds to regain Hotness, there’s only so much tolerance for ceaseless banter in The Firepower Banter Bank

    Like


  166. Maurice,

    Trust me, I overthink everything, whether or not I’m at a keyboard. INTJs of the world unite and all that.

    Yes, they did “cheat” using what information I had provided earlier, and it was good that you took a more realistic approach to the situation. I did like the variance the three answers provided, though. Epoxy is complete correct in being able to judge the situation before proceding along any of those paths.

    Personally, if a girl wanted me to jump through hoops for her (if I ever went for females, which is rare), I’d get annoyed. I’m not her lapdog. This blog seems to have a baseline that women that all have a need to be dominated. I disagree with this completely, but I am working within the social/sexual framework that Roissy is putting forth. Within this framework, if a girl is sassing you, she’s telling you that you need to step up your game and dominate her.

    And, yes, it’s a 3/4 green light. So if you’re willing to be the dancing bear for the next thirty minutes, and you don’t screw up, like you said, you’re in.

    See, I went for the BJ line because the conversation started aggressive. The guy went in full-steam, the girl returned full-steam… if you return with anything less than what she just handed you, you’ve backed down. It’s like changing the topic mid-conversation without any lead-up. A girl who returned at your level of aggression is probably not going to back down, is probably not going to be scared. I’d like to say that any girl who volleyed back at you like that would have no possibility of being scared off by you, but things happen.

    Attempting to prove herself after that comment might happen if she’s not as confident as she appears to be. You’ve got her.

    Personally, I’d start laughing in genuine surprise and admiration for a guy that ballsy, then follow with something like:

    “If you keep up lines like that, you’ll be finding out shortly.”

    “No, I’m terrible at it. You should probably leave before you’re disappointed.”

    “Aw, look at the big boy coming out to play.”

    “I hope you’re as rough with me as you are with your words.”

    …depending on the mood between us, and my own mood- how easy I want to make it for him. Really, following up his opener with the blowjob line would push me right over the fence from indecisive to knowing I’m going home with him. After that, it’s all fun and how much tension we can create.

    Like


  167. Great post.

    I tried this for the first time about a month ago.

    Walked up to 2 girls smoking near my flat (a 6 and a 7).

    me: hey ladies, how’s your night?
    them: good
    me: would you like to come home with me?
    them: (laughing) we’re from vienna, we don’t go home with strangers
    me: (smirking) we’ll just have some drinks
    them: where you from? blah blah blah

    I then restated my original offer.

    They laughed some more and politely declined, and blew me kisses as I walked away.

    This obviously wasn’t success but it wasn’t the worst rejection I’ve faced either.

    I will definitely try it again. Preferably on a solo target.

    A friend of a friend apparently does this all night and does quite well.

    BTW, the humility in your story is refreshing.

    Like


  168. 5’9″. Sorry if that throws your theory.

    Like


  169. Poetry of Flesh

    Firepower,

    Spanked, slapped, play-raped, thrown around like a ragdoll… yeah. It’s delightful. Wouldn’t have it any other way. For the initial encounter, I drop the game when he forces me to. When he realizes that the only way he’s going to win is when he bends me over. Once we’re past that particular hurdle, then I cool off a little. When I’m feeling frisky, I’ll prod him, check his reaction. If he responds positively, I’ll continue. If he doesn’t banter back, I drop it. I try to be sensitive to my partner’s moods. I’m there to please them, which pleases me. Most people don’t like to be on their guard all the time , always ready to get into a verbal sparring match.

    “delightful” is an interesting way of describing rough sex.

    It’s cool you know enough to modulate your banter game: you get an A -. I presumed you a tireless sarcasm manufacturing device who didn’t get it. I think we agree, it gets tiresome if the girl isn’t as hot as she thinks she is, i.e. the Fat & Sassy 5 who thinks she’s all that – while the muffin top runneth over faster than her mouth. Repartee is best left a spice for transient fucks; it’s tedious as an everyday dish in an LTR.

    I see your ltrs are getting much shorter.

    And now I’m going to go laugh at myself somewhere where I’m not surrounded by coworkers.

    well… if you play it just right, this has all the ingredients for a functional fantasy…

    Like


  170. Some girl last weekend used the apocalypse opener on me, it worked.

    Like


  171. This was a very entertaining post. I hope the effort is apprecitated by the readership.

    Like


  172. Poetry —

    OK, so if my reading comprehension is still intact this Friday Afternoon … always questionable at best …

    You have been active sexually for TEN YEARS, age 15-25 or so. You have estimated 70-80 PARTNERS?

    Is this accurate? Do you consider yourself an outlier, i.e. far more partners than most girls your age? What would you estimate most girls your age partner count be?

    Thanks.

    Like


  173. “Is this accurate? Do you consider yourself an outlier, i.e. far more partners than most girls your age? What would you estimate most girls your age partner count be?”

    @Whiskey —

    I noticed the same thing with interest. I’ve also raised it with AE to see what he has to say, even though it is anecdotal.

    N

    Like


  174. I forgot to mention, I believe it also gives you the option of using an external microphone, which of course you could pin anywhere on your clothing.

    But personally, I’d just had the iPhone out or in your front pocket since there’s nothing unusual about that.

    Like


  175. “If you’d prefer not to, then that’s cool.”

    Sounds defensive, and that did you in. If she’s asking how many girls it’s worked on, you got farther than you realize.

    Like


  176. Roissy:

    The opener is pretty old, all the guys at RSD are fans of it because the guy who invenetd (sort of) was an instructor there. His name is Ciaran, but drjekyll was his screename in other boards.

    Here is the original of it (Not the one you have posted):

    http://www.puaratings.com/articles/ciaran-shock-and-awe

    He’s a crazy looking guy, but then again he was locked in a mental institution, before this whole pickup thing. He is a nut.

    I have more of his post’s saved if you want me to link you to them.

    Like


  177. @FP – yeah, female stand-comics are not usually attractive. it’s a male behavior-type i think. the only one I ever saw who was geniuinely attractive was on some comedy central special – lisa something, jewish name that begins with a K. she was so pretty it was startling to see in a comic – that’s why it remained in my mind. fairly funny as well. comic actresses can be attractive pretty – from mary tyler moore through carol burnett up to anna faris, never hurts them to be cute.

    @poetry- thanks! very interesting – glad i wasn’t too far off from what you were saying. and i thought you were going to blow me out for being such a geek. your contributions here have been great – hope you stick around!

    Like


  178. Yes, in my dreams that would be enough, because that’s all I really feel like saying. Instead I do best with artists, writers, lawyers. I think the key to Welmer’s approach is “in good shape.” Ah, Arpagus, if only. Instead I wind up with natural rapport with, ah, 5s and below. Oh dear.

    Like


  179. The AO is so obvious it’s what any guy would do naturally if he didn’t know women are so difficult. It’s funny that any PUA would think he owns the copyright or even consider it game.

    Like


  180. Sarah?

    Like


  181. whiskey and nova

    women are not THAT bad. she made slutty comments, and I called her on that. She decided to cause some shock and consternation, and certainly upped her numbers.

    Poetry of flesh is slutty, though not THAT slutty. Even the nick is slutty.

    Having said that, I am off since it is friday night

    Like


  182. The AO is so obvious it’s what any guy would do naturally if he didn’t know women are so difficult.

    Arpargus, you get 9.5 degrees in the gig scale of betaness with that phrase. The AO, used against regular girls (non-prostitutes) is THRILLING. it makes you feel 16 again, all that teenager doubts and stuff

    Like


  183. “*sigh* Wtf…doesn’t anyone just go on a fucking date anymore?”

    @LR —

    Seemingly young women increasingly think dating is stupid. See the following recent NPR piece: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=105008712

    “‘Going out on a date is a sort of ironic, obsolete type of thing,’ says 25-year-old Elizabeth Welsh, who graduated from college in 2005 and now lives in Boston. She says that among her friends, dating is a joke. ‘Going out on a date to dinner and a movie? It’s so cliche — isn’t that funny?'”

    Like


  184. on June 19, 2009 at 10:06 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Yes mr. M, Sarah would similar to LR…she could be relied upon to eventually post in a thread like this “AO Game? Oh please Roissy. Coming from an asshole like you, that would NEVER work on a woman like me!”

    The difference is Sarah would do it with one or two posts, and that was it.

    Like


  185. @LR —

    True enough — I agree with what you say. My only point is that there appears to be the makings of a social trend, at least in the coastal cities, among young, educated women.

    Like


  186. Lady –

    You’re glossing over the fact that these women do not want a long-term relationship. “It gets in the way of their career,” I believe is what the article was getting at (read it awhile ago, don’t feel like rereading it).

    Dave –

    just…sigh.

    Like


  187. These girls are so fucking lazy and have such low self esteem that they are afraid if they date in a one on one manner they’ll actually have to show them true selves.

    Not to nitpick (okay, i am)… but its the complete opposite. They’re too career driven and have too much self esteem.

    Like


  188. “Well Nova, those girls are going to feel a lot less “educated” when they really that edgy/urban translates to “poor artist” when they get a bit older.”

    LR —

    I think that may be. My own sense is that it will be challenging for them to transition at some stage — if they ever wish to do so — from sex-based hookups without real imtimacy, to forming relationships that are based on intimacy.

    As we all know, there’s a lot of trial and error in learning how to be emotionally intimate with someone, and it seems to me that these folks are passing that up, as if they will be able to turn that ability on like a light switch when they choose to do so.

    Like


  189. editor – speaking of which, can anyone recommend a quality but not too expensive mini voice recorder that will pick up one on one conversation in a noisy bar and that i can hide in my clothing?

    If you have an iPhone, there is an app that just came out that lets you use the iPhone as a recorder. This isn’t the first app to do that, but what makes this one different is that it gives you significantly better audio quality than most anything else out there. It’s put out by a company normally known for high end professional audio software, so I trust their claims.

    http://www.retrorecorder.com/

    Like


  190. on June 19, 2009 at 11:04 pm Virginia Gentleman

    novaseeker:
    Oh, isn’t Ms. Welsh so up to the moment with her declaration of irony. If she’s already 25, by the lights of some around here, she’s heading towards obsolescence at full speed.

    One’s cold-hearted and calculating side says let the trend you mention develop amongst the smug SWPL types in the great cities of the Atlantic and Pacific seaboards. If they wish to sow the wind, let them reap the whirlwind. One wonders how many episodes of Sex and the City Miss Welsh and her compatriots have watched and longed to emulate.

    Like


  191. “In Clark and Hatfields classic study “Gender Differences in Receptivity to Sexual Offers” (1989), these were the questions:

    Would you go out with me tonight? (53% of the women and 50% of the men said yes)
    Would you come over to my apartment tonight? (3% vs. 69%)
    Would you go to bed with me tonight? (0% vs. 75%)

    The Apocalypse Opener is not as direct as it gets, which would account for the high acceptance rate of 14%. Even Clark and Hatfield got 3% of women to agree to come over to the man’s apartment. So what should one say if the woman asks what are we going to do there? Saying sex would probably cut your chances to essentially zero. Women nearly always need some kind of excuse even if you both know that sex is the point.

    I am absolutely amazed that the revisited study from 2005 got a 6.1% acceptance rate from women. If true, one doesn’t even really need game. All you need is to be able to take a lot of rejection and eventually you will get laid

    Keep in mind the study does not mention the looks and or fatness of the participants; in fact, I would venture that fatties and ugs account for the numbers of acceptances you see in these studies.

    Like


  192. […] seduction community Leave a Comment Tags: PUA I just read about the apocalypse opener (AO). It’s great. I will have to think about that opener. By the way, I like the abbreviations of […]

    Like


  193. “Keep in mind the study does not mention the looks and or fatness of the participants; in fact, I would venture that fatties and ugs account for the numbers of acceptances you see in these studies.”

    The Voracek “study” that found the 6% wasn’t really a study at all, but a popular magazine ‘experiment’ done by one man for an article. The scientists then used these popular article results to illustrate that the Clark and Hatfield finding of 0% acceptance for females probably isn’t a universal law, but moderated by various contextual and demographic factors.

    The two Internet findings of 14% linked above might be just as valid as the 6% from the German article.

    The Clark and Hatfield study participants only approached people they found sexually attractive with their propositions, and this may be a difference with the magazine article. The article does not report if the man approached women based on attraction, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. And in that sense, you seem to be right:: The 6% of women who agreed to instasex were a bunch of wall-collided cougars, unlike the Clark and Hatfield study, which only involved campus-age undergrads::

    “After inputting the overall mean age as a conservative estimate for missing values, females’ mean age (and SD) for
    the six successful trials was 36.8 (7.5) yr., and 32.5 (6.2) yr. for the 94 unsuccessful trials. Estimated individual ages for the successful trials were 28, 32, 35, 38, 38, and 50 years. Therefore, five out of the six successfully approached females were older than the male requestor…….
    Further, from the age estimates stated in the article, we calculated that approximately 75% of the approached women were at least in their late twenties or older, some of them significantly so. Therefore, it is evident that both the women and the male requestor in this study were older and probably sexually more experienced than the subjects recruited for the Clark-Hatfield studies who were undergraduates in their early to mid-twenties.”

    Like


  194. “The two Internet findings of 14% linked above might be just as valid as the 6% from the German article.”

    Technically the second 14% link should be compared to the Clark and Hatfield question “would you come over to my apartment tonight”, since he just asked them to come over, and not to sleep with him. Even though all of them did sleep with him.

    Still, 14% is much higher than 3%. Presumably this guy had charm and a history in PUA. The Clark and Hatfield participants were not selected for charm or PUA experience. So it’s possible his results are reflecting this.

    Or possibly this approach is just a lot more successful now applied to young women by young men than it was in the 1980s when Clark and Hatfield did their experiments. This seems to be alias clio’s opinion about Game.

    Like


  195. Rain And,

    I knew there was something fishy about the incredibly successful Voracek study, what with them using a “journalistic approach” and all, but it isn’t in my library’s subscription so I couldn’t see for myself. Thanks for clarifying. Bottom line is women are just as difficult as we thought they were, and I don’t believe the direct approach is a lot more successful now than it was in the 1980s or ever.

    Like


  196. Wtf…doesn’t anyone just go on a fucking date anymore?

    Because I don’t need either to get a hug or an orgasm. 😛

    Like


  197. on June 20, 2009 at 2:25 am Marcus Aureliette

    LR:
    or you’ll get some post-college nerd who just want to talk about books all the time and give you mediocre sex. Ugh.

    Hey, now — there’s nothing inherently wrong with nerds who talk about books, and mediocre sex can usually be improved with a bit of encouragement….

    (Don’t mind me, I’m a bit of an optimist. And I like nerds.)

    Like


  198. Firepower,

    I’ve always wanted an A-. Maybe I’ll make the principal’s list one day.

    Actually, the LTRs are getting longer. I reversed the order. Most recent was the 2.5 years. So glad to be out of that.

    Whiskey,

    About ten years, about 70 to 80 full partners, yes. I don’t really find that particularly outrageous. I don’t tend to compare my sexual history to other girls in my age group. In some groups, I blow my female friends out of the water, it others, I’m the least experienced. I spend time in vastly different social groups, so there you go. I among the girls I talk to, the average number seems to be in the 11-15 range. I don’t quite get that. Fortunately, most of my closer female friends tend to run anywhere from 40 to the low 100s, so it all works out.

    Maurice,

    I’m one of the last girls to blow out someone for being a geek, or at all, really. I’m glad you found it interesting.

    Gig and Whiskey,

    Let’s peg this average at 75, since I’m not sure. Take out the six long-term committed relationships and it hits 69.

    No, I did not do that on purpose.

    2.75 years, translates to 33 months, 69/33, you’ve got 2.09. To reach a partner count of 69 over the course of 33 months means I’d need to bone 2 guys per month, with some extra guy thrown every ten months or so.

    Really not that outlandish. I’m actually surprised anyone in this community thought that number was high. I thought I’d get blown out with “You’re not that experienced!” or somesuch.

    I’m a female. I’m assertive and sexually confident, and I’ve been playing the seduction game on and off with high success for years. There’s nothing I can do or say to prove my numbers to you without compromising the anonymity of my blog, which I will not do. I’m sure that one day, if my blog continues to be active, someone I know in life will stumble by it and recognize my tattoo, my writing style, or themselves from my stories and then, well, it’ll be amusing.

    Like


  199. you’ll get some post-college nerd who just want to talk about books all the time and give you mediocre sex

    I must admit, a line like that does prove the Novaseekers and the Whiskeys of the world right. Mind you, I’d prefer honesty instead of a world where women lie, and pretend to love those types of men.

    “It gets in the way of their career,”

    I jokingly say that a relationship gets in the way of responding to blog posts here, riding trains, roadgeeking, and playing Sim City 4…

    it seems to me that these folks are passing that up

    Who needs intimacy when you have great orgasms?

    what was telling was the stripper trainwreck of one girl who escalated to sex immediately because she wanted to glide over developing intimacy into instant sex-love

    Why bother with something as fake and useless as intimacy which serves as a tool used by men and women to paper over the fact that they’re dating somebody that’s sub par to their preferred choice? Just get the alpha or hot chick (or porn/prostitute if you’re a beta), get your orgasm, and move on.

    mediocre sex can usually be improved with a bit of encouragement

    No, it can’t. Beta males have small, useless penises that are incapable of providing sexual satisfaction. He lacks the rhythm and inclination to property excite and satisfy a woman in the way that an alpha can. Just giving him tips and encouragement just leads to an upset woman angry at her upset due to his inadequacies beta male partner.

    And I like nerds.

    It’s okay to admit that you can’t secure an alpha. Most women can’t, so it’s far best to try and build up your career, find hobbies, masturbate with a vibrator, and hope that one day, maybe an alpha may have sex with you and deliver excellent orgasms. 🙂

    Like


  200. on June 20, 2009 at 2:49 am Willard Libby

    Poetry of Flesh – I’m a female.

    I seriously doubt that. You’re probably some gay guy fronting as a woman on the internet.

    Sort of like Sex and the City was created and written by male homosexuals to describe their lifestyle and then fronted by actresses.

    A lot of these internet whore blogs are either by fags or by women who are totally making up the sexcapades.

    Like


  201. Well, the Pick-Up Labs blog reports that 3 out of 22 women said yes. So, assuming honesty, that’s still 14%.

    What results would you predict if we could get 10 CH readers to each do 10 identical approaches?

    Closer to 0%, 6%, or 14%?

    Like


  202. @ Whiskey

    On numbers, anecdotal. In 2000 a girl aged 22 asked me my number and blurted out her own was 8. She sighed it was really too high, but what could a girl do?

    In 2002 another girl aged 22 volunteered her number as 9. She, too, pretended it was really too high (and proceeded to jump into bed with me).

    The first girl was American; the second English.

    During the nineties a buddy of mine had a girlfriend in college who told him she’d had oral sex with at least 50 men (she’d lost count). He told me the story in disbelief. According to him she was a lovely girl.

    The mind blows.

    Like


  203. on June 20, 2009 at 5:41 am frank_mackey

    This post makes me smile and remember. I used to be into pickup. Spent a lot of time, money, and energy with pretty decent results. But it was taking away from work.

    Then I realized that you can just spend $200 and get a really hot escort at erosguide or sfredbook. On demand, no wasted time, 100% success rate. You open the door, she’s in a bikini or lingerie with a big smile on her face and then quickly on her knees putting on a condom. Fuck her in the shower, in the bed, or right there on the floor. Whatever you want, just use protection. The Asian orgs throw in a massage to boot. Avoid black escorts, there’s often danger. Even white girls can be flaky and variable quality. Chinese girls tend to be on the skinny side. All in all, Korean girls are the best.

    You have your pick if you’re in the LA, NYC, or SF areas. It’s basically decriminalized there as well. Around the rest of the country I cannot say. I’d bet Nevada is also pretty good.

    Remember, the kind of girl who’ll go for the Apocalypse Opener is going to be like Poetry of Flesh. Not technically an escort, but with a comparable number of partners, definitely in the multiple dozens. No offense POF, just stating the facts.

    I now split my women into two groups: escorts and LTRs. I’m faithful to my LTRs while in a relationship, but the fact that I can fuck an escort — *have my pick* of extremely hot girls — whenever I want gives me unlimited confidence. 10 am on a Thursday? 3pm on a Friday? Doesn’t matter. On your knees, bitch.

    I’ve had four LTRs since I began this, and they all realize that I just don’t give a fuck anymore. They don’t know why, but they can just sense it. I do it for the amusement and for someone to do my laundry, cook, and clean. I have basically broken my libido’s power over me. And with it I have broken their power over me. There just aren’t shit tests anymore, because I literally lock them out and block them out at the first sign of bullshit. Two of them came weeping back, two of them didn’t, but the most important part was my emotional state: I DID NOT CARE EITHER WAY.

    Even that is too weak a statement. I really and truly forgot about them.

    And you know what is funny? I don’t feel bad about this at all. I had a twinge of regret around the first girl, until she showed me some emails from a guy she had LJBF’d. I then realized that yes, it is enslave or be enslaved. Dominance means stability. Equality means instability. You will have the unfakable, unshakable dominance of a true alpha if you do this, and she’ll respond accordingly.

    Seriously. Get over your ethical hangups and take it to the next level. You did it before when you dropped feminism to understand evolutionary psychology and pickup.

    Like


  204. on June 20, 2009 at 7:52 am Epoxytocin No. 87

    It’s amusing how many of you think that a figure of 70-80 total partners is just outlandish for a woman PoF’s age. Like science-fiction level of outlandish.

    My hypothesis is that PoF has spent at least some time as a handsomely paid “professional escort” – as have way more women that you’d care to think, especially in places like Vegas and Miami.

    viz.:
    * I’m around 70-80 for “full” partners, and I don’t even want to attempt to guess about oral-only partners.
    * If you want, I can get some of my past and current partners to write me letters of reference.
    * I give great head and full-body massages.
    * I spend time in vastly different social groups … in [some of them], I’m the least experienced.
    * There’s nothing I can do or say to prove my numbers to you without compromising the anonymity of my blog [implying that the numbers CAN be proved]

    Etc.

    PoF, if you haven’t been a professional escort, too bad. You could already have retired by now. And doing what you love!

    And you could still be fucking hellraisers on the side.

    Like


  205. on June 20, 2009 at 8:30 am Gunslingergregi

    at on June 20, 2009 at 5:41 am frank_mackey

    Nice post.

    “”””87
    PoF, if you haven’t been a professional escort, too bad. You could already have retired by now. And doing what you love!”””””””‘

    Only prob is woman need a man with a guiding hand to make use of all that loot they bring in otherwise they just usually blow it all on crap.

    Like



  206. — It’s funny that any PUA would think he owns the copyright or even consider it game.

    And yet, how many regular guys try it? (drunken or assholey catcalls don’t count.)

    The Apocalypse Opener works. Or at least it has a higher success rate that one would think.

    I did this once in my early 20s. Iwas at a party and was smoking outside, alone with some girl I haven’t met before. We were chatting, kind of had a good vibe going, and I was chubbing in my pants because of how cute she was. She was a tall, artsy brunette with small boobies and nice legs.

    And at one point I just blurted out “[name], would you go down on me?

    It was not conscious game. It was pure autopilot. No goofy smirk on my face, no sudden “just kidding!” backpedal; just an earnest, vaguely demented face from the magnitude of what I just said.

    I thought she was about to scream at me or get some guys to kick my ass.

    Instead, her reaction was eeriely similar to Roissy’s excellent description”

    After I said it, … Her mouth hung open. At first she had a startled look, then amusement, then a darkening seriousness. She glanced down at her feet then back up at me.

    I was quite surprised that she appeared to be seriously thinking of taking me up on this. My girl also did bit of half-hearted resistance

    [R’s chick] “How many women has this worked on?”
    [Roissy] “If you’d prefer not to, then that’s cool.”

    In my case, it was this:

    Her: “but there are people around”
    Me: “there’s no one around”

    We were in a semi-secludes spot in the backyard of the house, kind of under the deck by the sliding door,, but hidden from other peoples’ line of sight by some kind of a shed.

    She got on her knees and blew me. I never saw her again.

    — proves the Novaseekers and the Whiskeys of the world right. Mind you, I’d prefer honesty instead of a world where women lie, and pretend to love those types of men.

    I don’t know Novaseeker’s arguments, but Whiskey is right — women are not attracted to betas. But were he is fatalistic about it, I maintain that most guys in today’s society can improve their game and be alpha-enough.

    The beta proliferation is analogous to the fattie proliferation. If most girls took care of their figure and appearance, most would me hot-enough for most guys.

    Like


  207. “How many women has this worked on?”

    Any response besides “no” is an indication of at least some interest.

    There are two possibilities as to why she said that:

    1. There is no way she believes any woman could go for that, but you’ve said it, and she wants to make sure.

    2. She’s interested and wants permission and therefore wants to believe other women have done it.

    These aren’t mutually exclusive.

    Here’s one fun answer:

    1. “Come back to my place and meet some of them.”

    Like


  208. for all you Triumph fans out there – here’s his first appearance on Conan’s new show:

    http://www.tonightshowwithconanobrien.com/video/clips/triumph-visits-bonnaroo-pt1-061909/1128174/

    Like


  209. @keith

    “She’s interested and wants permission and therefore wants to believe other women have done it.”

    I agree with this, it rings true. How bout this answer to the question.

    Chick – “How many women has this worked on?”

    Roissy – “My last girl friend”

    This will let her know that at least one other woman has responded AND you made her your gf, this might legitimize and lower the slut value for her.

    Like


  210. on June 20, 2009 at 10:27 am Gunslingergregi

    Cool story PA.

    I met my new midjet for the first time. He is a cool little guy doesn’t cry unless he is sleepy. Wierd thing is he looks you dead in your eye already at 6 months. What more can you ask for he is already honest about shit. He just chills out and looks around. I already taught him the war dance. So yea don’t make him go war dance on you ful cause he’ll do it. He he he
    It is full time job with a baby though good lord. Glad there is a nanny or vacation would have been a little different.

    Like


  211. I already taught him the war dance.

    Dawm, Gunner, you come up with some cool lines. Congrats dude!

    Like


  212. congrats gunny – awesome.

    p.s. nobody reacted to my “Apocalypse Now” joke at the top – i’m mildly disappointed in that …

    Like


  213. on June 20, 2009 at 10:35 am Gunslingergregi

    Yea he knows how to windmill punch pretty cool he learns quick. Other babies mess with him gonna need a doctor and some stitches lol

    Like


  214. on June 20, 2009 at 10:35 am Comment_Whatever

    Rain and said:

    Still, 14% is much higher than 3%. Presumably this guy had charm and a history in PUA. The Clark and Hatfield participants were not selected for charm or PUA experience. So it’s possible his results are reflecting this.

    Rain and, with due respect, the Clark and Hatfield ‘study’ sounds like a typical English Academic ‘myth-killer’ study. The first step of any such study is to make sure the results will be what the ‘studier’ wants.

    Another example of this is the English studies ‘disproving’ that people can sense when someone is staring at the back of their head. They used people staring at the TELEVISION image at a person in a distant room being watched by a CAMERA. These studiers boldly proved that thoughts don’t travel, BACKWARDS!, through the TV-camera cable and are then ‘projected’ out the camera. How a camera could ‘project’ thoughts is not explained.

    The Clark and Hatfield participants were not selected for charm or PUA experience.

    Were they even selected for LIKING the people they were trying to pick-up?

    In an amazing turn of events, nervously delivering the AO opener to a woman you don’t even like doesn’t work!

    Yeah. I guess so.

    Like


  215. on June 20, 2009 at 10:39 am Gunslingergregi

    What it was a good one just savored the flavor lol
    Yea good way to think about a rejection.

    Like


  216. maurice bemoaned the lack of response to his earlier entry

    Well I thought it was good. It is hard to respond to every good comment, otherwise the threads would be filled with LOLs, ROFLS, OMGs, 🙂 , 😀 , etc. It would start to look like a teenager’s IM entry.

    Like


  217. aoefe

    That sounds like a good answer.

    Chicks with good game, is that a good or a bad thing?

    Like


  218. on June 20, 2009 at 10:50 am Gunslingergregi

    “gives default a kidney punch’
    What to good to talk now that you have a blog

    he he he

    Had to have a place to put all your ladies eh

    Like


  219. Gunslingergregi

    Eh…
    …Welcome back Gunslinger. Good to see you too.

    Like


  220. Have to admit I’m finding the way men approach the topic of meeting women very interesting. It’s very different than how we women do it. I watched almost an hour of Mystery last night, watching him teach seminar style pick up to men. Very scientific approach.

    Men learn: Pivots, Forward Merges, 3 sets, A2, A3, Map of Reality, Time bridging = Pickup Game

    Women learn: drop a napkin; twirl your hair; mirror his moves; lean in = Flirt Game

    I’d like to say that Mystery has natural charisma and he’s using what comes very naturally to him to teach others. I’m not so sure it can be taught to men who don’t have a natural confidence. If a man is too caught up in thinking negs, AIO’s (whatever), the A2 vs A3 zone then he is not going to come across as genuine IMHO.

    Same way if a guy feels the chick is manipulating her charms and she’s got a smile, head twist, bat eye, shoulder bump routine.

    I think understanding male and female psychology is important, but the tools of the trades in pick-up/flirt can be cumbersome and lack genuineness. I think both men and women alike have to first like the opposite sex (for more than simply sex) in order for it all to work. If you have a deep down dislike/hatred for women they’re going to read that vibe. You’ll blame the woman for not picking up what you’re laying down, but nope it’s really you. Roissy and Mystery likely have real soft spots for womankind, they understand the psychology sure, but on a root level like women or it wouldn’t work.

    Like


  221. on June 20, 2009 at 11:06 am Gunslingergregi

    Yea had to come to terms that I am not G on R&R did not do the massive party for 10g’s just did the 600 dollar version figured could get myself further along the road to gdom by investing it in assetts that make money. Plenty of time later to blow shit out of the water.

    I did try something new went shopping and spent a k on clothes for the wife at the end she didn’t want anymore stuff. I was like no try this on lol then bought the last dress too. Everything that looked good one her I bought. Got like 5 pairs of shoes one bottle perfume and 6 dresses or so. Was an interesting phenomenon only went shopping once. Actually got her to say stop for only a 1000 dollars. Which is the same money I spent on 3 days staying at the marriot. Which had more value. I did some serious thinking about value after that and decided no on the big party.

    Like


  222. on June 20, 2009 at 11:07 am Marcus Aureliette

    No, it can’t. Beta males have small, useless penises that are incapable of providing sexual satisfaction. He lacks the rhythm and inclination to property excite and satisfy a woman in the way that an alpha can. Just giving him tips and encouragement just leads to an upset woman angry at her upset due to his inadequacies beta male partner.

    And you’re an authority on this because…? Oh, that’s right: you’re not!Speaking as a woman — again with the first-hand experience — I have just a bit more insight as to what I like and don’t like than you do.

    It’s okay to admit that you can’t secure an alpha. Most women can’t, so it’s far best to try and build up your career, find hobbies, masturbate with a vibrator, and hope that one day, maybe an alpha may have sex with you and deliver excellent orgasms.

    Buy into the whole “alphas are god” thing if you like. Some of us don’t. If the thinking espoused on here is in any way representative of what an alpha is, then there isn’t an alpha on the planet who could have me, even if he wanted me. Believe it…or NOT!

    Like


  223. on June 20, 2009 at 11:08 am Marcus Aureliette

    Damn! I did [jackpalance] [/jackpalance] tags around the last line, but they didn’t show up.

    Like


  224. @default

    You asked if chicks knowing game is a good or bad thing. Hmmmm I don’t think we’re smart enough to figure it out, do you? 😉

    Nah truth be told I am simply interested in the psychology of it, can place myself easily in the women’s shoes, mostly because I’m in the dating world at the moment. I think I have a good enough handle on myself (at least) to tell what could or couldn’t work. Although I have to admit I’ve had some insights into female psychology here that I was blind to before. Makes coming here worth it.

    Like


  225. @default

    Oooops forgot to say YOU make coming here worth it. 🙂

    Like


  226. on June 20, 2009 at 11:19 am Gunslingergregi

    Good thing I am not an alpha then marcus he he he

    I do however expect to be treated like a god.

    Your still on the team right?

    Like


  227. Marcus Aureliette
    <geek stuff>
    If you used <jackpalance> then these would be treated as HTML instructions. Because there is no such HTML instruction as “jackpalance” it will be ignored (actually WordPress will probably remove them).

    If you want to print HTML style syntax you need to use &lt; for .

    </geek stuff>

    It is possible I messed up my coding, so who knows what will display above.

    Even simpler, of course, is to do what you did in your second post and use [ and ].

    Like


  228. I did mess up my coding.

    &lt; = <
    &gt; = >

    Maybe this will work.

    Like


  229. on June 20, 2009 at 11:22 am Marcus Aureliette

    I think you’re quite unlucky that all the nerds you dated eventually tried to “trade up” in beauty, because at least most of the nerds I know aren’t like that. It happens, I guess (and I suppose I’ve lived a somewhat sheltered life so I shouldn’t generalize from my friends). Anyway, if you’d like another person to discuss human nature, philosophy, history, and other things under the sun in some depth with, I’m interested.

    Thank you, Chris! It was only one (very recent) nerd-based relationship that tanked that way, so I’m in no way making a case that all nerdy guys will behave this way. I only brought it up in the first place to counter some of the talk that if only women would appreciate nerdy guys, they’d be appreciated ten-fold in return. It doesn’t always work out that way. You can be good and faithful and supportive and try to keep the fires lit, but it’s still no guarantee that even a non-alpha won’t ditch a good thing to gamble for something “better”.

    There’s an adherence to the alpha/beta distinction here that is rigid to the point of uselessness. Betas are not automatically saints; alphas (of which my father was unquestionably one) are not automatically slavering sex fiends. It just kind of sells everyone short, I guess, which is a bit depressing.

    Like


  230. on June 20, 2009 at 11:23 am Marcus Aureliette

    Oh yeah, welcome back, gregi! Congratulations! 🙂

    Like


  231. on June 20, 2009 at 11:25 am Marcus Aureliette

    default:
    If you used then these would be treated as HTML instructions. Because there is no such HTML instruction as “jackpalance” it will be ignored (actually WordPress will probably remove them).

    LOL, thanks! I was thinking that since it obviously isn’t legitimate HTML that maybe it would just be treated as text. But then I know jack about what WordPress will tolerate….

    Like


  232. on June 20, 2009 at 11:27 am Gunslingergregi

    Thank You,

    Still need to do some research on getting internet in the sticks that has a decent speed decent price.

    Like


  233. “I don’t know Novaseeker’s arguments, but Whiskey is right — women are not attracted to betas. But were he is fatalistic about it, I maintain that most guys in today’s society can improve their game and be alpha-enough.”

    @PA —

    Hmm.

    Not to put words in his mouth, but I read Whiskey as saying that he thinks most guys are going to go the PUA route because women are becoming increasingly disinterested in relationships and opting instead for sex with alpha types (including guys who are using Game). So I guess he’s agreeing with you.

    My own perspective is that I don’t think that very many guys will learn Game. I think more guys will go the way of Dave Alex, because it’s a path of lesser resistance.

    “My hypothesis is that PoF has spent at least some time as a handsomely paid “professional escort” – as have way more women that you’d care to think, especially in places like Vegas and Miami.”

    @Epoxy —

    Well, as you wrote elsewhere, that’s certainly possible. I would think that if she were not a pro at some point, that the number is kind of high. As I wrote on my own blog, it’s not at all impossible, because as she herself points out, it amounts to 2 partners a month (every single month, mind you) during her non-monogamous periods. I would think that this would be atypically high, but perhaps most of us are grossly underestimating the sexual activity of young women today, meaning that Whiskey would again be right, despite the tendency of some of us (including me) to see his statements at times as being exaggerated.

    Like


  234. This direct approach is not much different from Joseph Heller’s suggestion in Catch-22, a very funny novel of WW II (flyboys stationed in North Africa bombing Italy).

    His character opined that there were two ways to pick up a girl. One, the traditional way, is to wine and dine her and gently persuade her to come back to your place. The other, and I quote from memory, went something like this:

    “The 2nd method is statistically almost as good. Just walk over to the girl and say, ‘Let’s go somewhere and tear us off a piece.'”

    I do think he hurt his chances with his weak response, and I really like the suggestion about “hanging out at my place” as a better, somewhat softer approach, but, maybe the shock value is important here.

    Like


  235. “There’s an adherence to the alpha/beta distinction here that is rigid to the point of uselessness. Betas are not automatically saints; alphas (of which my father was unquestionably one) are not automatically slavering sex fiends. It just kind of sells everyone short, I guess, which is a bit depressing.”

    @MA —

    Oh, I don’t think anyone here sees betas as saints. To the contrary, many here see betas as lazy chumps who are unwilling to put in the work to improve their Game. And I also think many people here would not describe alphas as slavering sex fiends. Not all natural alphas are pick up artists. Alpha is simply a term used to describe the kind of men that many/most women will “fuck for fun”. It doesn’t mean that the men involved are all sexually prolific (although a good number of them are, due to the sexual opportunity that they have compared to other men). Betas can “learn” their way into that by improving their Game, which is the point of sites like this one.

    The terms are a bit rigid, but the categories are useful nonetheless.

    Like


  236. women are becoming increasingly disinterested in relationships and opting instead for sex with alpha types

    Whiskey WAY overstates that point, to the point of being a despair-mongerer.

    He’s like someone who gets a paper-cut and screams “I’m gonna bleed to death!” He sees the bleeding but not the coagulation process.

    Females aren’t wired for no-strings-attached sex, even with superalphas. It makes them feel cheap and takes a psychological toll.

    Like


  237. Marcus Aureliette

    Most web browsers will treat anything between lt and gt as HTML. If they know what to do with it they process the command, if they do not know what to do with it they ignore it completely (i.e., print nothing). This means that older browsers will not choke on newer versions of HTML (graceful degradation).

    WordPress strips out illegal (and some legal) HTML to prevent hacking.

    We probably need a “sandbox” thread where people can try out stuff before using it on a live thread.

    [lesson ends]

    Like


  238. “hiskey WAY overstates that point, to the point of being a despair-mongerer.

    He’s like someone who gets a paper-cut and screams “I’m gonna bleed to death!” He sees the bleeding but not the coagulation process.

    Females aren’t wired for no-strings-attached sex, even with superalphas. It makes them feel cheap and takes a psychological toll.”

    @PA —

    This is certainly what I thought as well, but I am no longer so sure, with the NPR story and so on. It’s at least possible that there is a generational shift taking place with respect to female sexual behavior, at least among the young. The NPR story suggests that, at the very least. But it could, too, be exaggerating.

    Like


  239. I’ve actually been doing this for quite awhile, and it’s very similar to Mode One style game. What I can say, is that no woman has ever walked away from me for doing so. What usually happens is that they’ll mention how bold I am and/or watch and see how I react after they respond. If I play it cool and don’t go soft, they stay and talk, and assuming that I am intelligent enough to pick up on the subtle signals they put out, I take them home. (I wasn’t always experienced enough to pick up on the small things).

    In some instances, I have actually lost women due to going soft afterwards. Never do that. You can’t come on strong and then go soft when they challenge you. For instance, I told a woman that she was about to be full of something, and she immediately caught me off guard by challenging me and asking “Oh yeah, with what!?” At which point she just stared at me to see how I would respond. Shocked, I just stared at her, and she just walked away when I didn’t respond.

    That being said, you definitely have to be an attractive guy, and if you are, don’t be surprised if it and variants of it work a lot. And don’t be surprised if women use a variant of it on you. I’m not quite so sure that it will work with unattractive men, even if they are bold.

    Like


  240. generational shift taking place with respect to female sexual behavior

    Possibly, but I doubt it. The problem is that too many guys are sensitive bteas, that’s all. A little anecdote:

    I was out with mixed company at a fireworks picnic, and there were two guys who were after one girl. The first guy was more alpha “on paper” — better looking, witty, flirtatious, but still too much of a ‘nice guy’ to get this one girl who was with us to respond with interest.

    The other guy, his friend, was complertely off any girl’s radar. Ugly but not in an interestng way (early 20s and still had zits), shy and taciturn, an a little intimidated by the group, in which he felt a bit outclassed.

    Well, the first guy asked the girl to scoot a bit so he can sit on the blanket next to her. She basically blew him off. The second guy then growled at her: “scoot your damn ass over, woman!”

    Her eyes, previously dripping with cold contempt for her would-be suitors, suddenly lit up and she scooted over with a giggle.

    Any man can break the mind-forged manacle of Beta and growl “scoot your damn ass over, woman!”

    Like


  241. on June 20, 2009 at 11:59 am Gunslingergregi

    Yea nova some females are sluts so really 87 is a low number for how high it could be figure just 3 nights a week she goes home from the club with a different guy that would be 156 in one year. I was 21 met a girl who said I was her 32nd. She was probably 20.

    Like


  242. I once had success with a similar (albeit very situational, that is to say, non-reproducible) AO. Preparing for early departure from a mind-numbingly dull party — my last drink, eyeing the door — found myself in conversation with the very cute, much younger girl that all of the dorks at the party had spent the evening pathetically hitting on. I had avoided her for that very reason, intentionally avoiding eye contact and stearing away from conversational groups when she joined.

    So at the end we found ourselves together quite by accident. After the requisite pleasantries, I reached for my coat and explained that I was just on my way out. But why was I leaving, she wanted to know. Well, I explained — the truth, as it happened — I had only come to this party rather than the other one I had been invited to because my new shoes had given me a blister and the other party would have meant a longer walk from the subway. Oh, she said, she knew a lot about blisters, having practiced classical dance for years. Sudden inspiration: Really? Well in that case, maybe you’d like to come home with me and lance my blister?

    Forty minutes later we were sitting on the bed at my place. The blister lanced — she really did know what she was talking about — we fucked all night.

    Like


  243. I love this! One of my favorite posts and I like how you went to the bar by yourself, a place you don’t frequent. You took the same approach I would….You took the same approach as I am going to…

    I can envision this playing out in my head. I can see the adrenalin rush right before you do the approach, but playing it as cool, nonchalant and confident as you can. It could either bring a girl home or stimulate some good conversation…

    I’m going to give it a try….I am already fucking excited about it…

    Like


  244. @Aoefe

    Your answer is good, for the reasons you gave.

    Like


  245. If a guy approached me with AO I would be tempted to talk dirty back to him and then say “ok, give me your address and I’ll drive over there once I’m done with my drink.” I would then stand him up.

    What do you think this says about me as a woman?

    Like


  246. I did this accidentally once. I was at a bar with a bunch of people I had known for a few years. Tired, I decided to go home to go to sleep. The girls had been passing around this piece of paper with “who are you going home with tonight?” on it. I wrote “Unless you are, I’m going home and to sleep.” Obviously this was some humor.

    So I get up to go home and she says, “hold up, I need to go to the restroom.” I’m somewhat confused, but I stay put. She comes out, informs a mutual friend that she’s going home with me. I take her back to my place, fuck her for an hour and finally get some sleep.

    Like


  247. on June 20, 2009 at 12:36 pm Hollywood Hotsauce

    Hey there guys.

    Ok, as some of you are aware, I’ve recently left RSD.

    Before I go on to explain the reasons behind this, I think it’s important to say that there has not been a ‘falling out’. Sorry. No drama. Well, not of that kind, anyway.

    Also, anyone looking at the RSD forum will notice that my archive has been deleted. This is because I personally requested it’s deletion, and I would like to thank Tyler and the guys for doing that for me. They didn’t have to and make the waves associated with it, but they did and I thank them for that.

    To quote from the email I sent to Tyler asking for him to do this:

    ” A lot of the stuff I’ve advised guys to do and a lot of the ways I’ve
    told guys to think are going to lead them into very dark places. It’s
    something I wasn’t prepared to admit while I was still in RSD, but
    it’s abundantly clear to me now that I’ve been misusing my gifts as a
    writer and a thinker to glorify myself at the expense of what’s really
    good for the people who trust me and listen to me. ”

    And that’s the truth, guys.

    Ok, the reason I left RSD is this. I am done with seduction. I really am. I don’t think that there’s a future there for me, and I don’t think it’s what I should be doing. Recently I’ve been feeling like the darkness inherent in that path is too much for me to take, to handle, or to survive.

    There is nothing more seductive than the seduction community. It really, really got under my skin. It really, really went to my head. And the blunt truth is that the deeper I got into it, the more I realised that the vision of the ‘happy seducer’ that we all cherish and strive for is, I believe, a fiction.

    Now, RSD is very open about this. Tyler has said on several occasions that it is in sorting out your life that you sort out your love life, and Jeffy has spoken live in many instances on the fact that seduction will not and cannot ‘save’ you.

    Before I go on, I would like to state that I believe that RSD represents the very best of the community, not simply in their ability to build your confidence and success with women but also in terms of their integrity as men.

    However, I do not believe that the mission to ‘get good with women’ is one which is emotionally sustainable nor ultimately healthy. It is good inasmuch as it provides a focal point for self-improvement, but I feel that there is a fundamental contradiction between detaching yourself from ego, self-worship and pride by embarking on a campaign of short-term superficial physical relationships with strangers.

    This is a personal opinion which I have reached myself after extensive testing. I do not want it to be true. I wish that I could believe that there is redemption in charisma, in sex and in the glory of owning a club but the truth is that I have climbed to the top of that mountain and found nothing there but a cliff-face.

    This is not a condemnation of any of the guys at RSD, who I still consider my friends. They are a superb group of men, deeply committed to helping everyone they come into contact with. I have accompanied them on several bootcamps and was consistently blown away by the compassion, genius and dedication of the instructor staff.

    Also, I am especially happy that I was involved in the launch of Tyler’s Blueprint, which is an amazing work – a true piece of modern philosophy from a true philosopher.

    Nonetheless, I am glad that I have left the community, and I do not regret my decision to leave RSD. However, I still have a deep love and respect for the guys I worked with, and I will miss them all. With the potential exception of Jeffy. He’s a dick. Kidding. Love you Jeff.

    ;p

    So that’s all I’ve got to say for now. It was one hell of a ride, guys.

    Oh, and stay tuned to the blog. I will continue to update. And you’re not going to want to miss this.

    Ever Yours

    Ciaran

    Like


  248. on June 20, 2009 at 12:39 pm Hollywood Hotsauce

    Ciaran the guy that came up with the Apocalypse Opener has quit the PUA life style and has officially retracted all his previous teachings as misleading. In the Next post he details the reasons why and how the PUA lifestyle can fuck you up.

    Like


  249. on June 20, 2009 at 12:41 pm Hollywood Hotsauce

    Ok guys, here’s a response I was writing to someone and again, it got out of hand so I figured I’d post it here.

    “Anonymous said…

    Dude WHAT-THE-FUCK are you talking about? lol

    Iam in the seduction community cause I want to get better with women. Some guys are good with women, some are not. If you want to get better with women you learn how to get better in a seduction community. If you don’t want to be better with girls you don’t join a seduction community.”

    It’s not that simple. If you want to get better with girls, and you join the seduction community, not only will you probably not get better with girls (really – the overwhelming majority of guys who try this fail and are worse off with women afterward than when they started) if you do get better with girls then that newfound skill will not better your life.

    It will damage you and those around you.

    “WHAT IAM TRYING TO SAY IS THIS: Just chill bro’!!! What is all this complex nerd-talk about life good for? Keep it simple man… Let’s bang some chicks!! RAWR!!!(H)”

    This is not complex. This is chillingly simple. If you ‘bang some chicks’ you are not going to be better off for having done it. Period.

    “…or not if it makes you more happy to sit in your room and read buddha and stuff.”

    Dude, I have no illusions that I am going to change your mind. None. I know you are set on this path, and I am sorry for you because you deserve better than where you are headed.

    At the same time, ‘sitting in your room reading buddha and stuff’ is just as fucked as seduction if you’re doing it because it ‘feels good.’

    What is good for you does not always feel good.

    And frankly if ‘what feels good’ is the compass by which you are guiding your journey in life – fuck dude. Like, come on, man. Can you not see that this is dangerous? I mean, can you not see that living like this is emotionally unsustainable? And deeper than that – that the part of you that you are feeding by living this way in any area, let alone the all-consuming addiction of the seduction community, is something that will not serve you?

    I mean, really, dude – and anyone reading this, listen. If what makes you happy in the short term is your compass needle, you are feeding that part of you that has no depth!

    Do not be so blinded by your victories and the rhetoric of others that you believe that you can get away with this! Do not believe you are above the inescapable laws of human nature!

    Hell does not give a fuck what you tell yourself! It just doesn’t care! It laughs at you when you rebel against what you must know, somewhere in you, is the truth!

    “Destructive??? Dark places??? Iam happier then I’ve ever been and I look around at the people around me who are doing drugs, complaining, mass drinking, consumerism, YOU KNOW ALL TAHT NICE STUFF???”

    Do you not think that I had my periods of amazing happiness? Dude, like I have said, I was very good. I was better at this than most guys ever get. There are a lot of professionals with big followings who did not have the abilities I had. And I reveled in them. I felt like a million dollars. I’d never felt that good before or since.

    And let me tell you man, that it’s not the sex – although I had a shitload of that. That’s like a fucking sideshow to the real action. The real action is the pride. The massive pride in who you are.

    The pride that I overcame the impossible. The pride that I went from Zero to Hero. The pride that I lived untouched by the insecurities that had dogged me, and the pride that I was always the centre of attention.

    That I could see the fucking matrix, man – that I could handle myself in with the hottest chicks like Neo handles himself in a bar-fight with a fat disabled drunk.

    You see it changes. Firstly, there’s the high of getting laid. That’s a big high. It’s even bigger when you consider all the shit you’ve gone through to get there.

    Then when you really start to kick ass, there’s the high of just being really slick. That’s a big high.

    Now here’s the thing. You’ll be pulling shit out of your ass that is awesome, and you’ll love it. You’ll be like “this is the coolest shit ever!”

    And the girls will love it. And your friends will love it. And all the dudes on the internet will love it.

    And there will be nothing about it that seems in any way wrong. Nothing. In fact, it will seem like the most natural and cool thing ever.

    You will become a turbo-charged version of yourself, and it will rock so hard you will become an evangelical preacher, converting others to this way.

    But here’s the problem. And before I get into this let me again state that I have no illusions that this will change your mind. I do not think I would have stopped had I got as deep into this as you.

    I guess what I want to do is to say to anyone reading this who is sitting on the brink – get the fuck away from the brink.

    The problem is simple. The impossible becomes commonplace.

    The impossible becomes commonplace.

    What I’m saying is this. The human mind can normalise itself to anything. You will normalise yourself to this glory and when you do, you will encounter something.

    This is something, incidentally, that I remember raising at a sit down dinner I had not so long ago with some of the best ‘ladies men’ alive.

    Every single one of them nodded. So do not think that what I am about to describe to you is an isolated case, or specifically to do with me.

    The problem you will encounter is NOT boredom.

    It is NOT ‘oh well, let’s just do something else’.

    You cannot condition yourself for months and years to relentlessly think and behave in a certain way without building up a massive inertia behind it.

    The problem is very simply this – a creeping sense of the hollow.

    This is not something that leaps upon you like a wolf. It just starts to seep into your life like poison.

    Bit by bit, it gets more and more potent. It does this slowly, and you experience it as follows.

    You’re hitting on a lovely girl and suddenly you realise, maybe 30 minutes in to the conversation, that you are DEFINITELY going to be able to sleep with her.

    You can see everything ahead, and you know exactly how to handle it. Short of an act of God, you know you’re already fucking her, you’re just moving toward a conclusion.

    And when you get that realisation, the magic leaves the situation and it feels dull and mechanical.

    And you do it anyway. And you fuck her, and you feel ‘meh’ about it.

    Nothing dramatic, nothing massive, just ‘yeah, hmm, ok then. Sex.”

    So you’re chasing that rush you used to get and you go for hotter and hotter chicks.

    And for a while you get that rush again. Then again, it goes. And you go for threesomes and strippers. And you get another rush.

    Then the banality sets in. And it just feels like “ok, here’s another mars bar, I’ll eat the mars bar and get the sugar rush. Great. Now I need another mars bar.”

    And that sense of hollowness, all this time, is getting stronger and louder and harder to ignore.

    Who the fuck am I?

    What the fuck is going on?

    Why do I feel so alone all the time?

    And you shake it off and say “Don’t be such a pussy. Stop bitching. There are a shitload of guys who would kill to get what you have. Buck your ideas up sonny Jim. Go to the club.

    So you go to the club. And you pull.

    And this time the hollowness doesn’t wait for the sex to be over.

    It doesn’t wait for a week after you get laid, nor a day, nor a minute.

    It’s right there with you fucking you as you fuck her.

    And suddenly you start thinking “who gives a fuck about this?”

    But you can’t stop.

    And by this time the damage you’re doing to yourself by each new girl you fuck is like throwing matches on a bonfire. You’re already burning.

    You’re already way beyond fucked. You’re just waiting for the least little thing to come tip those scales and drop you the fuck down.

    And it will because the house you have built is a house of cards, and it CANNOT stand.

    And when you fucking fall man, you fucking fall. And if any of you out there are thinking “what’s all this existential nonsense, why doesn’t he talk in specifics” let me say this.

    It’s not fucking nonsense when it’s tearing you a new emotional asshole every single minute of every single day.

    It’s not fucking nonsense when your skills with women, those same skills you spent so much time honing are ripped away from you because no woman will even speak with a man who’s so transparently worthless in his own eyes.

    It’s not fucking nonsense when all the guys who looked up to you are now looking at you like you never had any skill whatsoever and all your bleating claims of “I used to be good” are unconvincing even to you.

    Look, I know that a lot of guys are in this and they seem so together. They’re fucking the hottest chicks with total impunity and they feel like a million fucking dollars.

    But that million fucking dollars is on loan, dude, and when that debt gets called in, you lose a lot more than you ever think you stood to lose in the first place.

    I guess I just want to end with one thought. A lot of guys have responded to me saying “what about me, I feel great” or “What about X, he feels great”.

    Guys, falling feels like flying on the way down.

    Falling feels like flying on the way down.

    And the guy who wrote this letter to me is right to point at all the things that are fucked about the world.

    “doing drugs, complaining, mass drinking, consumerism…”

    You are right. These things are fucked. And they’re fucked because they ALL – ALL OF THEM – are about building a life based on short-term hits of happiness, superiority and pride.

    As seduction is.

    AS SEDUCTION IS.

    And just as you cannot divorce “doing drugs, complaining, mass drinking, and consumerism” from the short term high and the long term low that are associated with them, that are inextricably bond up in the very foundations of what these things are – ANY project of self-improvement based around seduction is irretrievably interwoven with the short term hit and the long-term low.

    But the real killer is this. That long term low will hit you. And it will. There is no way out while you strive to be a better seducer of women.

    None. Full stop.

    Sorry.

    “AO” Opener inventor detailing reasons why he quit the game.

    Like


  250. WTF is “the seduction community”? Guys who want to get laid? Is there anyone except David Alexander who is not in this community?

    Like


  251. OK. I’ve decided to give this AO thing a shot, just to see what happens. I have the perfect venue this evening and there will be plenty of single women.

    Will report back what happens.

    Like


  252. @ aoefe-

    I watched Mystery’s show too and I don’t think he has natural charisma. A lot of his physical behavior looks planned, canned, almost theatrical in its artificiality. I suppose that alone is charismatic, but definitely not natural. What he does seem to have is intense steady eye contact – with everybody. I think that is the strongest distinction between him and the other PUAs, and the guys they are training.

    I like the Apocalypse approach. I’ve never seen it in action, but it sounds refreshingly honest. I can see why some girls would find it shocking, but it’s actually more respectful than the more manipulative game. Both of them know why he approached her, so why not state his intentions upfront so nobody’s time is wasted? I can’t imagine it working anywhere near 30-50% of the time, but even 6% is not a bad ratio.

    Like


  253. @Hollywood

    I just finished your missive above. How fascinating. I see how that can happen.

    I’m never bored and I never have the “hollow feeling” because I’m very interested in value creation and open-ended systems.

    Sleeping with women is merely my value reflection, enjoying what I have accomplished, shared in a romantic context.

    Like


  254. But were he is fatalistic about it, I maintain that most guys in today’s society can improve their game and be alpha-enough.

    In contrast, I believe that it’s inherently unnatural to have a beta be an alpha, and that the penalty-brake in one’s mind a strong concept. The penalty brake never existed in the minds of alphas, and in the case of many men who claimed to have gone from beta to alpha, it was merely unleashing of the rule book*, and operating at full speed. In contrast, for the beta, it’s not the rule book in control, but the embedded speed control system…

    *Yeah, a bunch of railfan references. Think of the difference between manual mode and automated operation on WMATA…

    If most girls took care of their figure and appearance, most would me hot-enough for most guys.

    How many 7s and 8s are lurking in the bodies of overweight and obese women? If you’re a fat girl that would be a 5 or a 6 with some weight loss, it doesn’t pay to lose the weight because you’ll still be too unattractive for an alpha. You might as well stay fat, enjoy eating, and wait for some beta to come along.

    Like


  255. kalliope

    I saw a video of Mystery and his eye contact was what eye noticed.

    I like the Apocalypse approach. I’ve never seen it in action, but it sounds refreshingly honest.

    Kind of like the Beatles singing “I Want to Hold Your Hand” while The Rolling Stones sang “Let’s Spend the Night Together.”

    McCartney: Indirect.
    Jagger: The original user of AO.

    Like


  256. The “what eye noticed” was not meant to be funny. It was not meant to be there. Silly mistake.

    Like


  257. on June 20, 2009 at 1:19 pm Hollywood Hotsauce

    El Guapo:

    I think something like that happens when you base your whole life and identity around picking up women. When it becomes your sole source of validation then you have problems. I also posted the orginal “quit” letter but its in moderation for some reason.

    Like


  258. Good quote from a former governor of Louisiana: “One out of ten women will sleep with you if you ask, but you have to ask the other nine.”

    Like


  259. @kalliope

    I didn’t watch the VH1 show, just an internet seminar he was doing for other men. He is theatrical for sure, no doubt, even in the seminar. An actor? Perhaps. I am (was) an actor and you have to have a baseline in order to be convincing; the convincing character you play has to be rooted in you. Think about actors who couldn’t pull off roles to save their life because they couldn’t show depth/humour/class to save their life. Mickey Rourke couldn’t play Bond and he’s not a bad actor. Paltrow would find it difficult if not impossible to play any role that required tremendous fiery passion. I’m just saying Mystery has natural aptitude which he’s honed and then sold. I don’t think he’s all that convinced it will work for others, he just knows its a product that will sell. Smart man.

    Like


  260. on June 20, 2009 at 1:26 pm Marcus Aureliette

    default:
    [lesson ends]

    *dutifully taking notes* 🙂

    Like


  261. @Hollywood Hotsauce

    To me the letter seems honest and I think it should be considered along with all the other stuff that’s said here.

    Like


  262. on June 20, 2009 at 1:30 pm Marcus Aureliette

    nova:

    (snip the well-presented bit to avoid redundancy)
    The terms are a bit rigid, but the categories are useful nonetheless.

    Oh, absolutely. It just seems that sometimes the rigidity gets a bit out of hand (that’s what she said!) and then it devolves into “only alphas get women, everyone else is doomed, hello, apocalyapse!” Which is just a tad histrionic.

    Like


  263. on June 20, 2009 at 1:34 pm Gunslingergregi

    Yea hollywood,
    Cept the guy who works 25 years at a job and gets permenantly laid off then divorced he doesn’t feel hollow inside at all. Life is like that yes you do get used to things it is a wild facet of life but you only get used to them while they are happening later on those things provide memories. That is why having some memories of something like that you did is better than growing old in your deathbed and having just lived a normal life. Plus you don’t stop at just being able to bed woman you make your goal taking over the fucking planet. So you can never get used to it because you are always striving for something bigger. That guys problem is his life goal was too narrow. As you can see though he is moving on to other things except he gets to carry with him that eperience of a lifetime.

    Like


  264. on June 20, 2009 at 1:36 pm Hollywood Hotsauce

    aoefe

    I’m not doubting the validity of the letter and he does make some good points especially for someone like me who’s just starting to actively engage in this lifestyle.

    Like


  265. on June 20, 2009 at 1:46 pm Hollywood Hotsauce

    Gunslinger

    Solid points man. When your old and the sight of a beautiful young female body is no longer enough motivation for your dick to get a hard on those halcyon days of youth when you were able to “swoop fly girls” sure those provide good memories.

    Like


  266. on June 20, 2009 at 1:52 pm Gunslingergregi

    That is why money is important for that day so you can pay the beautiful young female to work all day or all month if that is what it takes to get it working he he he

    But you can remember back to when it did lol

    Like


  267. @meanagain
    “What do you think this says about me as a woman?”

    In and of itself, not much. Here are some follow-up questions.

    1. Go on the web and look at a pic of the man your find most attractive. Would you respond that way if it were him doing the AO?

    2. Rank the following four alternatives in terms of how much you enjoy imagining them.

    a. After getting your response, before leaving the club, he tries the AO with another woman, who is much more attractive than you, and it works.

    b. After getting your response, before leavng the club, he tries the AO with another woman, who is much less attractive than you, and it works.

    c. He goes home, you don’t show up, he goes to sleep immediately.

    d. He goes home, you don’t show up, and he waits up for you.

    Like


  268. @Hollywood Hotsauce

    I get the psychology discussions which take place here, but sometimes the value of people is forgotten. I think, call me romantic, that people on a very gut level want connection with another human being beyond the sexual. We have innate drives , excuse my language, to f u c k, part of continuing the population and survival thing I suppose. Yet we really want something deeper than a few minutes or a few hours of physical pleasure, we seek it even if we haven’t identified it. I want to combine both into my next relationship. My first and only ltr was very sexual and in fact that was pretty much the only intimacy we shared, we were living together for enough years for me to know that was a shallow way to connect. Awesome and mind blowing but can you do that 24 hours a day? Nope or we would have. The rest was rather disappointing and empty.

    If the sole purpose in learning PUA is to screw hot chicks till the cows come home, then ya I see empty futures ahead. If being here makes you dislike/hate women more than you do already, then I see empty futures ahead. If you’re convinced civilization as we knew it is coming to an end, then ya I see empty futures ahead, cuz the only fricken constant in life is change.

    Change how you deal with men/women but make it positive, life enhancing change, not change that will leave you hating yourself or others. Be excited to learn new techniques, new ways of looking at the world, look to the future as brand new territory. Conquer it as men did before you. But … Big But (not big butt), don’t be bitter, and don’t conquer just for the sake of conquering, pleasure is too temporary.

    Sorry got on my little soapbox, I get passionate sometimes. In good and bad ways.

    Like


  269. on June 20, 2009 at 2:04 pm Hollywood Hotsauce

    Right now though with me been young and a student with no money the ONLY solution is TIGHT game.

    Btw, is anyone on this forum actively going out every week working on their game? Been going out everyday for two weeks now and I’ve had some “interesting” experiences. Anyone doing anything similar?

    Like


  270. Hollywood,

    I had existential angst long before I started doing pickup, maybe before becoming a teenager. I don’t see how swooping hot women will make that any worse, and it may take the edge off.

    Like


  271. on June 20, 2009 at 2:18 pm Hollywood Hotsauce

    aoefe

    Love the passion but I just want to make a clarifications so you don’t get a wrong impression of me. I’m a regular guy, 20yrs old, studying in University basically I’m pretty “Normal”. I’m not bitter, resentful nor am I a misogynist I love women/girls that’s why I’ve decided that in order get the kind of girls that I REALLY want I’m going to have to UNDERSTAND women better and this comes through “experience” the kind of experience that takes YEARS, years I’m not willing to wait for. I’m not out to screw women over, to put it bluntly I want to be able to fuck the hot girls I’ve always wanted not the cute nice girls I’ve settled for so far. I don’t see anything wrong with that.

    Like


  272. all the nerds you dated eventually tried to “trade up” in beauty

    You’re supposed to do that in order to chase the superior orgasm that comes from having sex with a better looking female. Yes, it’s sad for the woman who is dumped, but that’s merely how the system works. It’s probably better than he dump you than he cheat on you. Anybody that has the option to trade up will AND should use it.

    Speaking as a woman — again with the first-hand experience — I have just a bit more insight as to what I like and don’t like than you do.

    Look at all the stuff written by alphas and PUAs about the women they have sex with, and their descriptions of their current or ex-boyfriends. It obviously supports my reasoning.

    Buy into the whole “alphas are god” thing if you like.

    In many cases, they are compared to beta males. Better looking, stronger, even smarter, better endowed, and richer. Yes, while nobody is a saint, at least pick the evil creature that’s guaranteed to give the best experience.

    many here see betas as lazy chumps who are unwilling to put in the work to improve their Game.

    Betas aren’t lazy chumps, but men who have rationalized their opportunity costs, and realized that learning game to get a 5 or 6 seems pointless and silly when you can use your time to enjoy your life. If anything, the past thirty years has created such a large spread between the average and hot looking women that it creates a disincentive to deal with the average and sub par women when there are so many (naturally and enhanced) beautiful looking women who have the ability to destroy the other women in terms of good looks. Why bang a 5 when you can jerk off to a 7 in porn, and your 5 girlfriend ends up being upset at your preference for porn and it’s hypersexualized women?

    Females aren’t wired for no-strings-attached sex, even with superalphas. It makes them feel cheap and takes a psychological toll.

    I’d argue that NSA sex with a beta makes them feel cheap. NSA sex with a superalpha is better than any anti-depressant that’s currently on the market.

    Like


  273. on June 20, 2009 at 2:26 pm Hollywood Hotsauce

    Jackson

    Existential angst’s for emos, swooping fly girls? much more alpha.

    Like


  274. the AO is difficult to place on the Game scale. it draws on other facets that don’t necessarily involve Game. For instance, as mentioned earlier, its success with a woman would be more looks dependent. Since it is so direct and involves no preliminary conversation, the target has little time to assess your personality and “Game”.

    it requires strong body language and eye contact of course; these qualities are peripheral Game. to me Game is more about verbal skills rather than physical, but posture is all a part of the packaging.

    the question is, what do you do if the AO works? you’ve played it cool up to the point where she says ‘Yes’, you can’t turn into a little giggling schoolgirl now. What are the suggestions?

    I say grab her by the hand, slowly walk out of the club/bar/house party. Open your car door for her, as she’s about to get in, kiss her strongly, start driving, say no more than 3 words if at all possible maintaining an “all-business” frame, lead her into your house, bang away.

    Like


  275. Re: the AO inventor’s “Falling Feels Like Flying” article.

    Didn’t a commenter mention above that he was in a mental hospital before he became a PUA? What he’s describing sounds like a bipolar episode that may not be related to his seduction activities.

    So yeah, the warnings are valid but I don’t think young novice PUAs need worry about some massive emotional crash as the automatic payoff for their lifestyle. This guy just sounds like his brain crapped out on him.

    Like


  276. DA:

    “Betas aren’t lazy chumps, but men who have rationalized their opportunity costs, and realized that learning game to get a 5 or 6 seems pointless and silly when you can use your time to enjoy your life.”

    I agree with the rationalization of opportunity costs, but you’re giving the beta too much credit. i think most betas are still trying to compete in the market for mating and dating, but they just don’t have the chops it takes to be successful. the ones who have completely dropped out and have no prospects or grand notions of success may be enjoying their lives, but the ones who are still trying to woo women are likely bitter and disappointed; the latter are more abundant.

    The worst quality about a beta male is his self-defeatism. This isn’t talked about nearly enough in the realm of Game. A dog might still confront another dog if it gets its bone taken away, but you can tell by the lowered head and the tail between the legs that the dog is defeated. he puts on airs that he isn’t, but he is. same with beta men. they will sometimes still try to pick up women, but their shifty eyes, hunched shoulders, awkward hand gestures, self-deprecation, etc show that he’s already defeated himself.

    Like


  277. The big problem I have w/Dave Alex’s “reasoning” is that it isn’t based on actual in field experience, or even in-depth study, but rather childish emoting and looking through a keyhole rather than a door myopic views of life.

    For example, Dave Alex really cannot intelligently discuss some of the fundamental premises and building blocks of Game, simply because he’s ignorant of some of the most important information on the subject. Not only is he ignorant, but he refuses to educate himself on the topic-for example, he has flatout refused to read the Mystery Method of The Game, both of which he could easily afford, and when it was suggested they were available at one of NYC’s many libraries, he refused to venture there to see for himself. Yet he deigns to discuss, w/an air of veracity, what can and cannot happen, what is and is not possible? He is the very epitome of illogical.

    And his irrationality is only dwarfed by his arrogance in his ignorance, so afraid he is to have his irrational conclusions challenged. This is why he assiduously avoids most interactions with me, because he knows that I’m a lot closer to him in terms of race, class, even height, yet my life is far and away different from his, in large part because I make it my business to inform myself so that I may know what the fuck I’m talking about. It is for this reason that he cannot tell me ANYTHING about Game…but I can tell him. Not just based on book reading and study, but also based on actual in field experience.

    As for the notion that not enough Women to go around, that’s only true if you’re looking at the topmost 30% of Women-the 8s, 9s and 10s. For the vast majority of Men, these Women will be inaccessible anyway, but that doesn’t mean that you’re doomed to unhappiness. If one is willing to deal w/5s, 6s and 7s one can find much happiness in life.

    As for the notion that such Women are simply too overweight, I say this: the entire country is trending towards overweight, and I say to those for whom this is an issue, you are much better served saving your pennies and getting a flight to the mythical Eastern European country where you can knock yourself out finding slender White gals so many of you fawn over. My personal experience has been that such an area of the world has no shortage of ample-weight ladies, but what do I know, being as how I’ve always been a friend to the Zaftig Woman.

    If there is one major lesson one can take away from Game its that it is up to the individual-the Man-to take his own life in his hands and to make the most of it. No amount of crying in beer, whining about things that you have no control over, like Women being overweight, or being impossibly impractical like many of the very American Women so many of you excoriate, like for example demanding the best of the best looking Women should be into you simply because your a nice guy w/a decent job, is uttely ridiculous, a waste of time, and in the end, not very Manly at all. Game teaches a Man to be both optimistic but also realistic at the same time. I know it did for me.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  278. “the AO inventor’s”

    was there really an *inventor* for the AO, as in, did it have to be invented? this is like saying “i discovered a new restaurant”. the restaurant, like the AO, has always been there, it has just now been talked about, dissected, and discussed, but i’ve heard of guys doing this for a while now.

    Like


  279. “If the sole purpose in learning PUA is to screw hot chicks till the cows come home, then ya I see empty futures ahead. If being here makes you dislike/hate women more than you do already, then I see empty futures ahead. If you’re convinced civilization as we knew it is coming to an end, then ya I see empty futures ahead, cuz the only fricken constant in life is change.

    Change how you deal with men/women but make it positive, life enhancing change, not change that will leave you hating yourself or others. Be excited to learn new techniques, new ways of looking at the world, look to the future as brand new territory. Conquer it as men did before you. But … Big But (not big butt), don’t be bitter, and don’t conquer just for the sake of conquering, pleasure is too temporary.”

    @aoefe —

    Of course you know from hanging around here that Game is not only used to pick up women for short-term sex. That’s the focus of the PUA side of game, but there are guys who use Game on their wives to help their marriages stay together, too. There are guys who solely use “day Game”, and are not picking up women for sex, and so on.

    Game isn’t about hating women, to the contrary it is about pushing their buttons. Women who are being successfully “Gamed” are enjoying the experience — it’s what they like, and that’s the key to learning it. Game is simply men learning to press women’s attractional buttons. Some men use that to PUA, some men use it to keep their wives attracted to them and so on. It’s a toolbox, and the tools can be used for different purposes.

    It’s true that many men today have a negative view about women. Surely it’s not out of line to point out how sharply the culture in general has tilted against the average guy. I’m speaking of the general disregard for men in the popular culture. When you combine that with the general unequal access to sexuality between men and women when you have a sexual free market (equal sexual freedom, but clearly unequal sexual opportunity, for the sexes), that leads to resentment. That’s what you see here. Game is a way for guys to learn what makes women tick, and hopefully overcome their resentment for having been among the large number of male losers that will be the case in an open sexual market.

    However, I do think it’s appropriate to point out social trends that are not positive. Change is constant, but it’s not out of bounds to point out that some current changes are not positive, and if not reversed, bode pretty badly for society as a whole. There isn’t a need to be a pollyanna about the future and so on, when so many social trends are negative. I do think that men and women tend to view this differently, though. I think that the reason for that is that women are still being swept on the positive current of all of the increased opportunities and freedoms for women over the past few decades — it’s exciting for women, and the future seems to have a lot of potential, while the issues men point out can seem trivial in comparison to that sense of excitement. For men … it’s less so. We’ve seen fatherhood devalued by the weakening of marriage, our social role made undistinct, and the opening of the sexual marketplace resulting in a poor result for most men. Now, of course, men are adapting. Game is a part of that process of adaptation. Marriage avoidance is another part of the adaptation. But for most men, I can assure you that the experience of the past few decades, and the gaze into the coming few, is not one of exhilaration at all.

    Like


  280. O:

    “that’s only true if you’re looking at the topmost 30% of Women-the 8s, 9s and 10s.”

    the only thing i’d disagree with in your comment is the above statement. female attractiveness is not distributed uniformly (i.e. 10% of women are not 10s). like most human attributes, attractiveness has a normal distribution, a bell curve, or some similar distribution.

    there’s no way to have a precise number, but i’d guess that 2% of women in this world are 10s, 5% are 9s, and 10% are 8s. something along those lines…i know agnostic at gnxp.com has written some on this.

    Like


  281. Keith:

    1-If I was extremely attracted to a guy I would talk in a manner that let him know I was going to stand him up and that my dirty talk was tongue in cheek. Since I never want to be sexually used by a man I am really attracted to, AO would not work on me (but almost anything could come out of his mouth and I would still be attracted, sigh).

    2-Situation order: d, c, a, b

    Like


  282. There is one thing I’m wondering about with regards to Roissy’s AO question “Do you want to come home with me?”

    When I did the AO I related above, it was a there-and-then thing. I asked the question, she got on her knees and, unzipped me, and put it in her pretty mouth.

    But with “Do you want to come home with me?” How does this work in practice if she says yes?

    You have to get to your place. But first, there is the bar tab to be closed. Then you have to get to where you can have sex. What do you talk about as you are walking, catching the cab, or waiting 15 minutes or a Metro?

    How do you maintain the shock & awe of your bold proposition without it fizzling out by the time you get to your place or some other place you can shag?

    Like


  283. Just read your comments to Dave Alex Chuck, and I salute them. Very well put, and most fitting that my retort to him would follow yours.

    Btw, I’ve been following your blog; keep up the good work.

    O

    Like


  284. @Novaseeker

    Nova said “I think that the reason for that is that women are still being swept on the positive current of all of the increased opportunities and freedoms for women over the past few decades — it’s exciting for women, and the future seems to have a lot of potential, while the issues men point out can seem trivial in comparison to that sense of excitement. For men … it’s less so.”

    See THAT’s why I like coming here! You’re right I was looking at it from a woman’s point of view – duh. Cool eye opener.

    I’m not against GAME in any way, nope, I get it. I’m simply saying motivation is what can bite you in the ass. I’ve seen many positive examples here of men using game positively. I’ve also seen some woman haters too. I’ve also seen women here who hate men, it goes both ways.

    @Hollywood

    No I didn’t get the sense you were here for the wrong reasons, I think its cool you’re open to the potential downside though.

    @kalliope

    It still has a ring of truth to me. Seeking the next and then the next and then the next will end in disappointment eventually, cuz you run out of nexts.

    @Obsidian

    said “No amount of crying in beer, whining about things that you have no control over, like Women being overweight, or being impossibly impractical like many of the very American Women so many of you excoriate, like for example demanding the best of the best looking Women should be into you simply because your a nice guy w/a decent job, is uttely ridiculous, a waste of time, and in the end, not very Manly at all. Game teaches a Man to be both optimistic but also realistic at the same time. ”

    Said much better than I could, but its what I was meaning earlier.

    Like


  285. Chuck,
    Fair enough, applying numbers to human beings is always gonna be a messy exercise; the point is, that for most Men, most of the time, the choicest ladies will simply be out of reach. This is true for the vast majority of things in life, and yet people somehow manage to live full, productive, and dare I say it, happy lives.

    I personally refuse anyone or anything, to take away my right to happiness in this world. I may or may not be able to land a 9, but I I’ll be darned if I can’t at the very least get a very nice 7 or so. And, again, turning to Dave Alex, if he actually knew what he was talking about, he’d know that Game would take him from 4s & 5s to 6s and 7s. Maybe that isn’t good enough for him, and that’s too bad, especially since he isn’t getting neither sex or happiness. The Best is always the enemy of the Good.

    O

    Like


  286. Aoefe,
    It is a waste of time to attempt to debate or even discuss these issues with a Man who openly prefers jerking off to images on a computer screen to actually interacting w/human beings in realtime. Dave Alex cannot offer you or any other human being anything in the way of actual relevant information based on his experience, which is how most human beings learn, live and grow.

    For any human being to make the argument, w/a straight face, that jerking off is better than sex w/a real human being, is sick. And I mean no hyperbole by that in the least. While I am sure there are some who find a sordid kind of comedic value in Dave Alex’s writings, I find them to be prima facie evidence that they stand in stark relief his notions about living a happy life. Nothing could be further from the truth, and he reeks of misery.

    As for some of the other voices here, sometimes they remind me of, please pardon my speech here, bitches. Most of the Women don’t complain aywhere near as much as many of the Men here, and it makes one wonder why Women bother at all. I mean, these now have the Rosetta Stone to understanding Women, which includes getting laid, *and they still complain*. I don’t get it. The only explanation I can come up with is that this must be a manifestation of the “entitlement mentality” some of these faux Conservatives accuse others of having, especially those who have faces like mine.

    Oh, and I read about your accounts of dating online. Interesting reading. And goes to support what I’ve been writing about right here.

    O

    Like


  287. LR,

    Give it up. Roissy is Roissy. He is unique. He is not widely emulated, though he is widely read because he is a highly entertaining writer. He is not influential in the PUA community because he does not have any sort of unique ideas for pickup. At this time, he mostly follows and advocates Mystery Method.

    There are thousands who are entertained by his writings and maybe, MAYBE, a handful of people that actually attempt to follow his specific philosophy. What it amounts to is that you want to start flamewars to whore for attention, over a feared conspiracy of misanthropes that doesn’t exist.

    I don’t blame you. If I were bored with a sad-sack life, I might do the same.

    Roissy is Roissy. He can’t be changed. He is a force of nature, an avatar of a pure principle. Criticizing him is like criticizing the wind.

    Like


  288. on June 20, 2009 at 3:48 pm Tupac Chopra

    I think I have become one of the Hollow Men
    As I shine on the outside more these days
    I can feel the outside feeding on my inside
    It leaves a growing darkness in it’s place

    I think I have become one of the Hollow Men…

    I think I have become one of the lonely
    Now that everybody talks to me
    I feel I have become one of the empty

    Hollow Men can stop you with the twinkling of an eye
    Hollow Men can take you without even reaching out
    Hollow Men have got you long before you realise —
    The poison paralyzes

    I think I have become one of a pair of men
    It’s a feeling I’ve been having for some time
    I look down upon myself and watch my movements
    A blind eye sees the fragile vandalised

    Watch this cold world dishing up these endless Hollow Men
    Find us anywhere you look
    Come and meet our friends
    Stand us in our silly clothes
    Put our batteries in
    Line us up like fairground ducks
    Watch us grin and grin
    See the lies behind our eyes
    See the will to win
    We’ll buy you and we’ll sell you
    But perhaps we’ll save your skin …

    Sit quietly and listen to the breeze —
    The hollow and the lonely listen too
    Sniff the air for something we can use…

    We’re tin hard and we rattle when we’re shaken.

    — Marillion

    sniff…

    sniff…

    sob

    It didn’t have to be this way, Clio.

    Like


  289. “t is a waste of time to attempt to debate or even discuss these issues with a Man who openly prefers jerking off to images on a computer screen to actually interacting w/human beings in realtime. Dave Alex cannot offer you or any other human being anything in the way of actual relevant information based on his experience, which is how most human beings learn, live and grow.

    For any human being to make the argument, w/a straight face, that jerking off is better than sex w/a real human being, is sick. And I mean no hyperbole by that in the least. While I am sure there are some who find a sordid kind of comedic value in Dave Alex’s writings, I find them to be prima facie evidence that they stand in stark relief his notions about living a happy life. Nothing could be further from the truth, and he reeks of misery.”

    @Obsidian —

    My sense is that DA enjoys being a pessimist because it is easier to be like that. In other words, if you convince yourself, as he has, that “women only enjoy sex with alphas”, or that “women only perform well sexually with alphas” and so on, you can then relieve yourself of any need to work on yourself, to keep plodding ahead in relationships and find something that works. In other words, if you convince yourself that there is no hope, that provides a very useful excuse for not changing. That’s my impression of what is happening there.

    Like


  290. Nova,
    Of course. Dave Alex is simply unwilling to GROW UP. Which explains why he’s still living at home w/Momma 5 years out from 30. When I was his age I had my own place and did for at least several years prior to that, and loving it.

    The chief reason why he keeps coming here is because his hardwiring as a Man-to fuck-is at deep odds w/his stated goals of a jerkoff oriented, nondate filled life. He comes here in the hope that if he can keep telling himself he’s doing the right thing, somehow, some way and some day, it’ll sink in and he’ll be vindicated. He’s only hurting himself because no one takes him seriously-not even his own genes.

    O

    Like


  291. on June 20, 2009 at 4:07 pm Legions of Betas

    Laidy Raine, you’re full of it. Game bothers you because if more men come to learn of it and start practicing it the less men you can CON into cleaning your house and cooking your meals. Game equalizes the mating dance and as a woman, and an AMERICAN WOMAN at that, you CAN’T STAND IT, you loose the upperhand! Thank god for Roissy and the PUA community for opening the eyes of legions of beta men everywhere.

    Like


  292. I get shit tests from my mother and sister all the time!

    Like


  293. Way to push yourself. A lot of guys get satisfied and stop pushing their comfort zone well before they get to your level.

    Like


  294. @ Welmer, Firepower

    “she loves him for his mind, dewd.”

    Heh. Another reason hex game works.

    I just thought I would note, for the benefit of the board, that the AO would not work on me. That said, if delivered correctly…(in a non-creepy manner), I’d probably laugh and it would segue into a real conversation.

    Still wouldn’t go home with you, though.

    Like


  295. on June 20, 2009 at 4:16 pm Gunslingergregi

    ””””””’PA,
    How do you maintain the shock & awe of your bold proposition without it fizzling out by the time you get to your place or some other place you can shag?”””””””””’

    Kind of like what I did with a chick who I couldn’t speak her language on the plane for 7 hours. Use touch only like it started shes leaning on me slightly then more. Then her knee is touching mine. Then are hands are touching. Breaking out the blanket. Then playing hand footsie. Caressing softly gently then doing some hand fucking acrobatics. Feeling some tit. Foot cuddling with toe grab. No eye contact up to this point lol. Then move to bam hit with the eyes. Relax back the seat start playing with her inner thigh. Do the middle palm bang on her pussy. Let her touch your boner and rub it. Stop her before you cum. he he he

    Let her say you would be good in bed agree he he he.

    Get her number.

    Wife takes number when you get to hotel and throws it away which has now become a tradition. She must be able to smell the woman on me who knows.

    Like


  296. on June 20, 2009 at 4:20 pm Hollywood Hotsauce

    SHOCK AND AWE

    There’s a myth in this underground world we inhabit that if you sleep with a girl within minutes of meeting her, that’s not solid game.

    On the one hand, I agree.

    If you fluke out once in a while and find some random chick who’s just looking to get laid, that’s not you – that’s just luck.

    Some guys will harp on about how great they are at getting girls because it happens to them once in a blue moon.

    I speak from experience. I too was once a deluded chode.

    HOWEVER.

    What if it’s not every once in a while?

    What if you can pull chicks in minutes, consistently. And not munters (US translation: warpigs) mind. What if you can consistently pull stunning girls, rapidly?

    Is that solid game?

    In this article I will sketch out a detailed map of how to pull off “Fool’s Mate” pickups with consistency and panache.

    Are you sitting comfortably?

    Then I’ll begin.

    The Best Natural I Ever Met

    When I decided that I was going to get good with women, I was broke. I had no money, and I had no friends.

    I’d gotten fired from my fancy job in the sandstone maze of London’s Square Mile, and I was in debt. I moved to Edinburgh because I couldn’t afford London rent, and I slept on my sister’s couch until I found a job.

    The job I found was bartending. It was good, easy work. After the nightmarish stress of the financial sector, it felt like heaven.

    Besides, it also meant that I’d be talking to lots of girls.

    That was good, but the real benefit I got from taking that job was a guy called Andy.

    I thank God every day that my path crossed with Andy’s.

    Andy was amazing.

    He was just jaw-dropping. He wasn’t ugly, but he wasn’t particularly good looking. He was an engineering student who worked in a bar.

    I have never seen a man pull that well.

    We became friends, and as I worked at approaching and approaching, I started to improve.

    Ultimately though, it was Andy that made me great.

    You see, I’d fucked around with ‘indirect’ game, but found it weak, pointless, unnatural. Direct game was different. Powerful, exciting, real. I found my results getting better and better.

    But I was nothing compared to Andy.

    You see, Andy didn’t date. Ever. He didn’t date, he didn’t buy girls drinks, he didn’t call them, he NEVER took phone numbers.

    At the age of 21, he’d already slept with over 150 women.

    Engineering student.

    Bartender.

    Andy’s Secret – Reverse Engineered

    One day I asked him a question. I’d just gotten tested in a massive way by this hot Swedish chick, and completely crashed out.

    I ran the test by Andy. It was this:

    “You just want to bang me, don’t you?”

    I offered several responses – Play it hard to get. Play it cocky. Play it sweet.

    Andy just laughed at me. Then he said this: “You know what I’d have said? I’d have said – heck yeah. I’ll bang you in every hole you’ve got.”

    He said it with a beaming grin on his face, laughing as he said it. Not joking as he said it, mind – that’s important. Laughing, but not joking.

    I thought about this for a time, then I began to use it. Not his line, but his attitude.

    Amazingly, it worked. Even while I was testing this shit out, I’d rarely get blown out. And my results skyrocketed.

    Toward the end of my singledom, before I met my beautiful girlfriend, I would walk out of the house alone, walk into the first busy bar I saw, walk up to the hottest chick in the room,
    pull her, take her home and fuck her.

    I would do this consistently, without getting blown out. One approach per night. 100% success.

    Believe me or don’t, I don’t care. It is true. I used to do it to show off to all my friends.

    In the end, even Andy couldn’t match me.

    What I am about to tell you is real. For all intents and purposes gentlemen, this is hot off the press.

    Note: SHOCK and AWE is not high risk. It sounds like it is, but it’s really not – and I’ll explain why in a moment.

    It’s not even advanced. I’d call it intermediate. If you can open, and you can get attraction, and you can chill out and chat with a chick and not get weird – you can do this.

    It is not a quick fix solution for hopeless newbies.

    Sorry.

    If you’re having problems stringing a sentence together, if your body language sucks, if you have bad VOICE PROJECTION (this, as Jeffy points out, is crucial to all game) – this will not work.

    However, if you’re plateauing somewhere in the intermediate stages, (or if you just hate getting phone numbers like I do) this might be EXACTLY what you need.

    Shock and Awe is, very simply, something I developed out of showing too much interest when I was closing a chick down so I could kiss her/grab her and leave/whatever.

    I developed a very specific kind of statement of intent that covers your back socially while allowing you to come out with the most outrageous stuff – stuff that gets her very horny, very
    fast.

    I’d use principles from this to sex up the vibe of a conversation with a chick if it was getting dull. The point is though, you don’t need to do that.

    I realised that you can open with it. You can open, and then drop straight into a continual SOI loop and close a chick straight down very fast. It’s a kind of vibe, you can feel when you’ve hit it because it’s electric. You can just go ape from the outset and drive her crazy, then take her home.

    Basically, being open about your desire and BLAMING THE CHICK for being hot is dynamite.

    Toward the end of my pickup rampage I had developed a whole new kind of game around doing just this one thing.

    I called it Shock and Awe, because it is shocking, awesome, and if you nail it you can pull a chick extremely quickly. It’s mental. I love it. I stopped doing it for a while because it got
    boring.

    No, really.

    The final thing to understand before we get to the nitty gritty of what to do is this:

    You’re stating your DESIRE.

    This is a whole ‘nuther level of important. There’s not “I intend to sleep with you” or “I am interested in you”. This is you talking about your DESIRE alone. That is all. How hot she is. How sexy she is. How awesome her body is.

    Just pure sex, right from the outset. To map the basic structure of Shock and Awe it would be:

    1) Approach with a statement of intent, then SOI stack, blaming her hotness for your actions.

    Make sure they are creative and funky statements. Think of it like jazz. SOI jazz. Free form, just go for it. Say anything. It’s not important. What is important is that you blame her for
    being hot. Say something like “Excuse me, but what? What do you want? Do you want me to just walk on by? I mean, you’re absolutely stunning. Do you want me to just pretend like that doesn’t effect me? I mean, how? I’m just some guy. I can’t turn it off. What are you trying to do to me, woman?” etc….

    2) Always be escalating physically, always always always.

    Blame her for the fact you can’t keep your hands off her. Act like you’re trying to keep your hands of her and you just can’t.
    Blame her more. Ask her why she’s doing this to you. Physically fight your urge to touch her, and make this conflict OBVIOUS. You are a wild animal STRAINING against a tight leash. You’re in control… but BARELY.

    Don’t fake this. Really get into this headspace. Ozzie’s recent post on the Wild Man is EXACTLY what you need to do here.

    3) Express desire, do this relentlessly and blame her for it.

    Tell her you deserve a gold star for effort for not jumping all over her. Keep it funny, but make sure the vibe is highly erotic.
    Remember – LAUGHING, NOT JOKING. Tell her that if she doesn’t stop being hot you’re not going be held responsible. Tell her to eat a load of pies, and gain 5 stone so you can connect with her personality without wanting to tear all her clothes off.

    4) If you push it too far, apologise for the disrespect and not the action.

    Genuinely apologise. Really. Actually do this and FUCKING MEAN IT. But remember – ONLY apologise for the DISRESPECT. NEVER apologise for the ACTION. Then tell her you did it because she’s really hot. Blame her for being hot. Tell her she should wear a
    bag over her head so you can have a normal conversation with her.

    5) Go to step 2.

    You can basically do this until she breaks. It’s great.

    Just remember guys, use a condom.

    Honest to God, have consistently pulled hot chicks with this. It’s not infallible, but it’s hilarious and it blows through all the crap.

    This is also how you NEUTALIZE ALL RISK associated with being so extreme.

    You just say something like “No – no, this is ridiculous. I’m going to find out who you are. You can’t do this to me. I have depth. Tell me about yourself.”

    And then they do (either that or they demand to know who you are, but it’s all in good fun) and boom, you’re chatting. It acts like an explosive, funny, charming opener.

    It’s all about the vibe, about magnifying the vibe.

    And the vibe is generated from the fact that she’s so sexy she’s breaking you down, but you’re resisting. That’s where the tension comes from.

    How Important Is It To Blame HER For Your Extreme Actions?

    This is the heart of it. You are talking direct, but you’re blaming her hotness for your directness.

    As such, it’s like two different levels of compliment, both of which are highly unusual and extremely difficult to resist.

    You’re basically telling her it’s totally out of character for you to behave like this and you’re fighting it, but you’re really, really struggling.

    This isn’t an academic issue. This frame is how you avoid ‘antislut defense’ when going for a Fool’s Mate. The frame is, she is breaking down your resolve with her hotness. This is
    massive. Why?

    Because it defuses so many negative things.

    First off, her ASD can’t really kick in. Why not? Because she’s not doing anything, and neither are you. You’re just complimenting her. No girl is going to walk away from someone
    just because he says she’s hot, not unless she’s a nutter.

    Secondly, it’s a female fantasy. She’s the femme fatale, destroying your resistance. The more fight you put up, the more resistance to her you express, and the more you lose this battle, the more she feels sexy.

    Don’t You Need Zen-Master Levels Of Calibration?

    No. You just have to be “not completely wack.”

    Look – fair enough, calibration is important, but calibration does not mean hesitation. You should be leading the encounter.
    Lead it. It goes where you go. You’re the man.

    Won’t This Break Too Many Social Rules?

    That’s WHY it works.

    Yes – seriously.

    The fact that you blame her means that she has to justify it as not being her fault.

    But how can she do that? Is she going to say “I’m not that hot?”

    No. She is a woman. She will, instead, love it.

    It’s a female fantasy, she’s annihilating you with her looks alone. You’re resisting but she’s breaking you down.

    They love it. Seriously, it’s great.

    Do I Have To Go For Broke Every Time I Use This?

    No. You can drop out of it any time with the line I gave you earlier

    Also, this doesn’t have to be used as such a high-octane thing.

    Try dropping a little of it in here and there. See what happens.
    Learn to calibrate it. The vibe you want is half sexy mocking, half pure sex.

    It is all about that vibe.

    It’s amazing how well this attitude defuses all the negative things about being really direct with girls.

    And once you’ve defused them, boom – you can basically cut through all the tactics and just blast her with desire until she breaks.

    What If I Run Out Of Things To Say?

    A big part of this is about getting creative with your compliments. I don’t want to give too many actual examples of stuff, mainly because the stuff you say doesn’t have to be da
    vinci.

    This is NOT a routine-based method.

    It is a direct method, a way of cultivating an attitude of non-weird, engaging, sexual expression. You can do it high octane and go for the Fool’s Mate, or you can do it low-octane and just drop Shock and Awe SOI’s in as and when in the context of chatting up a lovely young lady.

    So If I Do This Will A Chick Just Jump Me?

    If you do it right, very often she will, yes. HOWEVER – it’s impossible to predict who will and who won’t.

    Depends on a million things. It can be very rapid, or it can take a while.

    The beauty of this is that if it seems like she’s not just in the mood to leap all over you, you can drop the S+A and just have a chat. Again, that line to segue into a more normal (though highly charged conversation is…

    “no, you’re not going to break me. I have depth. I’m going to get to know you properly, and there’s nothing you can do about it. Tell me about yourself.”

    WOW! This Sounds Amazing! Finally! The Magic Pill!

    Nope. It’s not a magic pill. As I said, this will only work for guys who are already reasonably comfortable with approaching.

    If you’re looking at this thinking “Awesome – now I don’t have to do all those tricky approaches” then you’re heading for a fall.

    This takes balls.

    Ok?

    You need to grow balls, and you can only do that by approaching lots and lots of chicks and becoming cool with approaching.

    Understand?

    It’s not a technique as much as it is a mode of sexual expression. I mapped out the stages just to give you a feel of what to do, but I hope you guys can see that this isn’t a
    tactical thing. This is what happens when you say “bugger tactics” and just go for it.

    I originally came out with this on a chick who was just ludicriously hot, amazing eyes, dress, legs, face, teeth, ears, nasal hair – the works. I was in an absolutely chipper mood,
    nimbus aglow, just on top form.

    I opened by telling her that it was ridiculous to expect me to just walk on by with her looking like that. She smiled, so I kept on saying the same kind of thing. Next thing I know she’s kissing me.

    What I’m saying is that this has to be genuine. Direct game, if not genuine, is seedy, manipulative weirdness.

    S+A is a vibe. It is a route of expression.

    The inner game stuff, the practise – all that jazz, is the iceberg. This is the tip.

    This is not a short cut.

    It’s just not a massive detour, which a lot of highly tactical systems are. I’m certain that if you’ve never done anything like this before it is scary, so just understand that there are
    several elements to this that go on behind the scenes.

    One is your general abilities of self-expression and creative speech. This is something that Jeffy explains brilliantly, so read his stuff, copy it, buy the Jeffy Show and watch it
    constantly. The other big part of it is sexual expression, for which I’d also recommend The Jeffy Show, Foundations or Transformations (Ozzie is really bang on here, as is Tim).

    Closing Statements

    Shock and Awe is the pinnacle of direct game as I practice it.

    No nonsense, no tactics, just straight in there, make a girl feel really sexy, have great fun with her, be cool, go back to your/her place and do the hunka-chunka. Problem solved.

    This isn’t about tricking girls into stuff, or playing them. If you try that, you’ll fail, and I will personally batter you senseless with your own shoes.

    This is about refusing to be a leaf in the hurricane.

    This is about being the hurricane, gentlemen.

    Be the hurricane.

    (Credit-Ciaran (RSD staff))

    Like


  297. on June 20, 2009 at 4:21 pm Hollywood Hotsauce

    “Shock and Awe”is the guiding philosophy behind the “AO” Opener. Original article here

    http://www.puaratings.com/articles/ciaran-shock-and-awe

    Like


  298. Dr Helen on the traditional family having become an alternative lifestyle: http://tinyurl.com/kvkene

    The lady has a nice rack!

    Like


  299. on June 20, 2009 at 4:32 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    there’s no way to have a precise number, but i’d guess that 2% of women in this world are 10s, 5% are 9s, and 10% are 8s.

    According to these percentages, there would be almost ONE MILLION tens in the state of California alone.

    Hell, there would be 12,000 tens in Wyoming.

    That’s a lot of tens.

    Like


  300. @ 87

    “According to these percentages, there would be almost ONE MILLION tens in the state of California alone.

    Hell, there would be 12,000 tens in Wyoming.

    That’s a lot of tens.”

    According to my boyfriend, this is why we should use z-scores.

    Like


  301. on June 20, 2009 at 4:34 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    Not to let this thread degenerate into some nerdsauce about numbers, though. I have too big a heart to let that happen.

    My point is that tens are a LOT more rare than one would think.

    Now if we all expressed hotness in terms of z-scores, then everybody would be on the same page, now, wouldn’t they?

    Wait, what? I didn’t say anything.

    Like


  302. apologies + remembering her of her beauty + permanent escalation …….

    I call BS onthis Holliwood hotsauce post.

    Like


  303. @ 87

    think again about the absurd that you wrote. by your own locig, there would be around 3 million 10s in Russia and in Bangladesh.

    Like


  304. novaseeker

    Good points.

    What we have in the Developed Western world is economic socialism and sexual capitalism. Both seem to punish virtue (things like thrift, steadiness, work over hedonism, etc.). Economic socialism strips a man of his wealth and income. Sexual capitalism makes it harder to compete for a mate.

    Economic capitalism produces a subsidence rate of less than twenty percent. Sexual capitalism probably produces a subsidence rate of greater than fifty percent. While there are massive income redistribution programs for economic capitalism none exist for sexual capitalism. An economic poverty rate of fifty percent has produced revolutions. We have thus far avoided a revolution based on sexual capitalism but such a thing is possible.

    Like


  305. Quick run through, as I’m about to head out the door.

    Frank, no offense was taken.

    Epoxy, while some of my friends do work in the sex industry, I’ve yet to do so. It feels weird to me, to be doing something I’d do anyhow, but getting paid for it. If I ever get over that particular odd ethic, I’ll be quite financially well off. I recently had to stop one of my guys from buying me a bunch of new clothes. Just couldn’t do it.

    And with that last sentence I’ve just outed myself as being a man. Oh, the horrors.

    Really, I’ve just had an odd life with odd opportunities. I’m very socially active, and I don’t really limit myself to a “type”, other than dominant alpha males, so I have a wide range of guys to choose from. Since I’ve got a lot of experiences wrangling the alpha or loner males, I tend to be successful.

    I also have a very supportive groups of friends who value me no matter what I’m doing, and take enjoyment out of adventures. No one ever talks down to me about it, accuses me of being a slut, or tells me to reign in my desires.

    And someone commented about all girls being designed to develop emotional connections to the men they sleep with? I one-night guys when I feel the need. I’ve had several lovers that have lasted anywhere between three months to three years that I have never thought of with anything other than fondness and friendship. I occasionally have slept with long-term previously platonic friends and had nothing deeper develop. I know that it seems to be a female trend, and I know there is evolutionary biological and psychological/sociological support behind it, but I think wrapping 100% of females in such a blanket statement is probably not the most accurate idea.

    Like


  306. poetry of flesh, do you realize that the phrase “ It feels weird to me, to be doing something I’d do anyhow, but getting paid for it.” leads us to the opposite conclusion about you.

    your amount of sexual partners, to be true, could only happen to aprostitute o a girl who lived close enough to prostitutes

    Like


  307. on June 20, 2009 at 5:03 pm Gunslingergregi

    More from the couple days in field

    Blond on the bus from airport to dubai hotel.

    We talk about life. I talk about my dream of building an empire on the backs of woman. She talks about a book she is going to write about her experience over here. Banging in guard towers apparently she has been quite sexually active.
    She talks about her fiance and how she doesn’t think it will work out. She doesn’t have that spark for him or some shit. She doesn’t think day to day life will work.

    We hit the hotel and she says she wants to go eat. I say I am going to smoke. She needs to eat ok np I’ll see ya.

    I go outside and burn. I return to resteraunt two guys are sitting across from her. Apparently I learned later she was supposed to fuck one of them that day. Anyway she has the seat beside her saved for me. I sit down and order a steak even though there is a free bufee. The two guys leave. I take her up to the garden area. I tell the waiter to deliver the steak there. We chill and smoke cigs. I eat in front of her. Talk more about life. I guess I cockblocked which ok was kind of fucked up. Anyway she doesn’t leave to go fuck the dude. It was the matrix again I could have taken this chick to the room and banged I don’t it is becoming funny to do this shit. It is time for me to go grab my flight and she asks for my email. I give it to her then split.

    I am sitting outside the px waiting again for a flight but with some extra free time. A chick is sitting 7 feet away. I am enjoying the air and a slight breeze. I notice that there is couple after couple walking past. I start convo with her about the amazing amount of couple out here in this environment she laughs and agrees. More couples pass I suggest that we need to be a couple to fit in and maybe we should walk some circles around the couple track she thinks that is a good idea. I offer her a chicken leg to lure her closer and tell her that is the reason. It works.

    My turn down happened with a cashier which I felt safe using the marriage line on and she said she was engaged but just put up a couple roadblocks really instead of just declining. I didn’t work at tearing down the roadblocks. Woman need must have to learn to just say no instead of just putting up a token resistance like well I feel sleepy or my hair looks funny right now. Both can be remedied. Men teach your woman to say no for gods sake and yours.

    Like


  308. on June 20, 2009 at 5:05 pm Gunslingergregi

    Arpagus
    This roissy reader could have got his nut off on the plane with no words spoken at 30000 feet couple weeks ago.

    Like


  309. epoxytocin:

    i was just being conservative on the estimates…i originally wanted to say 1% tops for the number of 10s. either way, i know its nowhere near 10% that a uniform distribution would dictate.

    i’m also interested in skewness…as in, are there more 1s,2s,3s than 8s,9s,and 10s…if so, that would suck.

    Like


  310. on June 20, 2009 at 5:12 pm Hollywood Hotsauce

    gig

    what are you talking about? if you think the post is bullshit go on facebook search for “Ciaran Healy” and send him a message expressing your “feelings”personally. I’m sure he’ll appreciate it.

    Like


  311. “your amount of sexual partners, to be true, could only happen to aprostitute o a girl who lived close enough to prostitutes”

    @gig —

    I’m not sure about that. It amounts to 2 per month every month. Surely well more sexually prolific than most women, but not hooker prolific. That would be awfully slow business for a hooker.

    It sounds to me like she just is a very sexually active young woman, having sex with a couple of new guys, on average, per month.

    Like


  312. Ok guys I need you to read the following dating situation I had and tell me what the dude’s thinking. Or some thoughts on it.

    Had a first date two weeks ago tomorrow. He was attractive, guy’s guy and had a good sense of the ha ha. Pretty soon into the date he told me it would work out because I had a breed of dog he liked, it was said with humour but I took it as a sign he liked me. During the date he took my hand in his and it wasn’t awkward. He ended the date at an appropiate time and walked me to my car. Kiss was very good (and those things matter to chicks). He was grinning in a good way and said I’ll call you tomorrow. He didn’t call tje next day he texted instead, we texted a small bit and he sent a text I couldn’t figure out so I called him to interpret it. I think it was the way he typed it. So he jokingly asks me to come over to his place he needs a massage, I laughingly decline. He says he’s going to be really busy the next day but will get in touch later on. I say cool. Five days pass, it’s now Friday. I email him (I’ve erased his number accidentaly) and say something like hey I thought we hit it off, maybe I was mistaken but let me know if I was wrong, something along those lines. He emails me back, says there will be a second date he’s just been really busy. Asks me to text him and I reply saying I’d lost his phone number could he resend it. He doesn’t resend and I haven’t heard a word, it’s now over a week from last contact. So….

    Was I too information seeking with the email I sent? Or what??

    I date a lot and this one felt good, you know what I mean? So delve into your male pscyhe and tell me the bad news.

    Also have another first date tonight…always leery after a badish experience. although I did have a first date two Saturdays ago and we talk daily and will see each other this next weekend. I like how those ones go.

    Any help is appreciated.

    Like


  313. Poetry of Flesh

    I don’t really limit myself to a “type”, other than dominant alpha males

    Yes, that is practically egalitarian. Equal opportunity for men. Lol.

    Of course any woman can easily have over 80 partners in ten years if she wants to. The incredible part is a woman willing to be so promiscuous without getting paid for it. Very few women are. And the few who are evidently still only deign to dominant alpha males.

    Like


  314. aoefe

    game over, girl.

    Like


  315. @gig

    I knew that to be true, just felt funny cuz the signals were strong when we met, or I read the room entirely wrong.

    @rain

    I move on fast, but still that chemistry thing is a tough one and when you feel it, it would be better if it lasted more than one meeting.

    Like


  316. on June 20, 2009 at 6:03 pm Gunslingergregi

    “”””””””””””””””””novaseeker
    “your amount of sexual partners, to be true, could only happen to aprostitute o a girl who lived close enough to prostitutes”

    @gig –

    I’m not sure about that. It amounts to 2 per month every month. Surely well more sexually prolific than most women, but not hooker prolific. That would be awfully slow business for a hooker.

    It sounds to me like she just is a very sexually active young woman, having sex with a couple of new guys, on average, per month.””””””””””””””””””””””””””””

    Don’t understand the big deal with 87 partners for a woman who wants to fuck. I had 4 pickups in 6 days travel. Then 4 more plus my wife when I wasn’t trying to pick up. That is ten in 22 days. lol

    Not counting the woman who kept coming up to my wife when we where at the club in the town near her. The woman kept coming up to her and saying hello that she knew from the salon. Could have told her to get me one of those he he he

    Like


  317. on June 20, 2009 at 6:06 pm Gunslingergregi

    “”””””””””””””Aoefe,
    Any help is appreciated.””””””””””

    Go on a date with default seriously he he he

    Like


  318. aoefe

    Also have another first date tonight

    I think you have your answer.

    The other guy could just be busy. Maybe he is, as they say, just not into you. Who cares, worry about tonight’s guy.

    BTW:
    I think your e-mail was fine. Us guys have to worry more about looking all aloof and cool. Chicks can probably get away with “I thought we hit it off…” e-mail.

    Like


  319. BTW,

    The first girl that I met through the game is coming over tonight for dinner. Thank you for revitalizing my interest in The Game two years after I read it, and giving me the impetus to meet up with my local lair. It’s really changed my life for the better.

    If you’re ever in So Cal, I’ll buy you a drink.

    Like


  320. Gunslingergregi made the excellent suggestion:

    Go on a date with default seriously he he he

    How do you know I am not the guy she is seeing tonight?
    [how does she know?]

    Like


  321. on June 20, 2009 at 6:14 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    Aoefe:

    If this guy is a combination of high-value and high-libido, he may just automatically pass over any girl he can’t bed by the second “date”.**
    So, especially after your declining the massage thing, he may have just written you off as “not sexual enough”. If this is the case, then it’s over. You won’t be able to reverse the situation.

    And, yes, the email seems kind of try-hard.
    Remember that the effects of words are magnified when they’re written down.
    So, words that might not seem like a big deal if they’re said out loud can almost seem desperate if they’re on paper (or in pixels). Weird but true.

    **My standard has always been no real “dates” at all for a girl I’m not fucking, a standard that has worked out quite well.

    Like


  322. Arpagus,

    I suspect that the guys who do this on a regular basis are really, really good-looking. It would be a pain to do it 100X and get zero results. I think they get 1 out of 10. Also, how are betas supposed to have an instant-boner vibe?

    Like


  323. on June 20, 2009 at 6:18 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    Arpagus,

    I would have tried it on younger and hotter women if there were any around, but I genuinely wanted to sleep with the women I approached and it does not bode well for the success rate being anything but zero.

    I think you’re missing some very important confounding variables here.

    Like


  324. @default

    Well hmmmm I don’t think he’s you, but that would be super cool. Are you a newpaper reporter (he is) and you’re looking for a great story? Niiiiiice.

    @guns

    default and i are just group dating for now

    @Epoxy

    I think you’re right on the email screaming louder than a verbal statement. Very very true. I’m going to drive over to his house now and scream it from the street. Something like ” it was a mistake to dismiss me because you think I’m not sexual enough…oh buddy if you only knew!!!” Then I will leave the town I live in forever. lol

    Like


  325. on June 20, 2009 at 6:31 pm Gunslingergregi

    “””””””””””””Eurosabra
    Arpagus,

    I suspect that the guys who do this on a regular basis are really, really good-looking. It would be a pain to do it 100X and get zero results. I think they get 1 out of 10. Also, how are betas supposed to have an instant-boner vibe?”””””””””””””””””””””

    Yea ok I am making up for all the posts I didn’t make lol

    Anyway ok between now and 6 months from now you can either aproach 600 woman or you can not. If you do not die between now and then the time will go by. It is what you do with the next 6 months that will make the difference. If you approach 600 woman in the next 6 months (3 a day or so). You will more than likely get one to go home with you at least. Then you will have more than you would of had if you didn’t do that. All about what you do with the time. Or for the net 6 months you can talk about how painfull it would probably be to approach 600 woman and wonder what the results would have been.

    Like


  326. Gunslinger aoefe said:

    default and i are just group dating for now

    Well there you have it. “Group dating.” Not even cool and alpha enough to be LJBFed. I have been GDed (Group Dated).

    Even David Alexander would have done better (and he might have received a hug).

    It is a cruel world.

    Like


  327. @default

    Sorry didn’t want to out the ‘real’ story…if you want YOU give the details of our entanglement. heh

    Like


  328. on June 20, 2009 at 6:38 pm Gunslingergregi

    Yea default you may want to apply some logic from three amigos.

    ”””””””””””””””””Jefe
    When you want the cattle you take the cattle
    when you want the food you take the food
    When you want the woman why not just take the woman

    El guapo
    You cannot just take the woman when the petals of a flower are ready to open they will open

    Jefe
    when do you think her petals will open

    El Guapo
    Tonight or I will keel her”””””””””””””””””””””

    Ok maybe not the last line.

    Like


  329. @guns

    The last line might work if you say “tonight or I will keel her over”

    And with that I’m off to first meet. Epoxy is right shouldn’t be called dating until the deed is done.

    Like


  330. Gunny,

    Approaching is not the problem. I get 1 in 250, about 1 number for every 50 approaches, and about every 5 numbers one works out all the way. So, really, the problem is getting from here to there.

    Like


  331. Rain And:

    What results would you predict if we could get 10 CH readers to each do 10 identical approaches?

    Closer to 0%, 6%, or 14%?

    I would think closer to 0%, though I am willing to suspend disbelief until the results are in.

    I just went to the local pub and tried it on two women. The first one coldly said no and proceeded to talk about other things like nothing had happened until she left with some morons who were arguing about whether the USA has 52, 51, 49 or 21 states, with 52 being the consensus. Even the bartender guessed 51 states. The second woman said no no no no no no no but it still felt good because I did it and besides the rejection there is nothing to worry about. Both women where at least twice my age. I would have tried it on younger and hotter women if there were any around, but I genuinely wanted to sleep with the women I approached and it does not bode well for the success rate being anything but zero.

    Like


  332. on June 20, 2009 at 7:16 pm Gunslingergregi

    1 in 250 all the way working with what god gave ya. I suppose not so bad. Almost a half of a percent. Actually before you where saying you had like 2 you where able to call to fuck. I would say that should give you some confidence. You aren’t getting 0 so bonus right.

    Put it in perspective if I make .4 percent on 600 trades of 100k each I still make 240 g’s. Not so bad.

    Like


  333. on June 20, 2009 at 7:31 pm Gunslingergregi

    Difference is your penalty for fail is in your head. Mine was having nothing lol

    Like


  334. Aoefe, Whiskey,
    Aoefe, I wouldn’t sweat it, he’s not that into you. Move on.

    Whiskey, I honestly think that a lot of White guys protest a bit too much. They set their sights too high and demand too much w/o taking a brutally hard look at themselves. This thing ain’t that hard, and I have to stand back and wonder by how someone like me can get success a lot quicker than my socalled “betters”. And no, I ain’t buying crap about how Black guys have “lower standards” or how we have more “natural Game”, sense, at least in theory, you guys have at least as much Game potential as me or any other Brotha by virtue of materials like the Mystery Method, etc.

    I don’t know about anyone else, but my Dad had mad Game, and was able to stop a bona fide Redbone Brickhouse dead in her tracks while crossing Broad St one day, kicked Game and married her a month later. Sure, most guys can’t do that, and sure, a little of that rubbed off on me, but still, now that Game materials are available, it ain’t that hard for the average guy to get a gal.

    The problem, as I see it, is that a lot of guys have unreasonable expectations, while not seeing that they don’t have the goods to merit such high post honies. Let’s face it, if you don’t have leading man looks to begin with, its gonna be hard for you to really land strong 8s and above on a consistent basis. You have to pare back your expectations. Lower-tier 8s, strong 7s and 6s is more your speed.

    But that’s not something far too many of the guys here are willin to do; there’s nothing preventing them from finding love if they want to, what they want is to find sex w/the creme of the crop females, and unless you got mean Game-and most guys here do not-they simply don’t have the other things, looks among them, that’s gonna land them those kind of females.

    This makes a lot of the guys here angry and bitter. It is a sign of immaturity, inability to handle reality, and downright hatin’. And lemme tell ya Whiskey, those are traits that turn the bulk and mass of Women, no matter what they look like, OFF.

    I’ve said it before and it bears repeating: how is it that I was able to achieve success in a relatively short period of time, while I hear guys like you STILL complaining, more than a half year later? Something’s wrong w/this picture here, Whiskey. My own testimony suggests that it ain’t me.

    When you have eliminated the probable, whatever remains, however probable, must be the truth. And the truth is, Whiskey, that a lot of my White brothers have an acute case of entitlement syndrome. They need to get real, get a grip, get a life, go the fuck up, and learn to ease up on their expectations a bit.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  335. I agree 1 in 250 is not so bad, and still plausible in light of the Clark and Hatfield studies which only tested 144. It makes me wonder, though, if it wouldn’t be most cost-effective to ask a woman out on a proper date. But if women aren’t even interested in that from beta males anymore, as Novaseeker suggests, we are screwed.

    Like


  336. Which explains why he’s still living at home w/Momma 5 years out from 30.

    And my male friends who live at home are magically able to secure beautiful women, so please stop throwing that excuse around…

    “women only enjoy sex with alphas”, or that “women only perform well sexually with alphas” and so on

    But when you read the stuff written here by the esteemed blog host or his commenters, at other websites, from other male friends, and female friends who openly admit to their desires, how can you not come to such a conclusion?

    he’d know that Game would take him from 4s & 5s to 6s and 7s. Maybe that isn’t good enough for him, and that’s too bad, especially since he isn’t getting neither sex or happiness. The Best is always the enemy of the Good.

    The problem is that once you’ve seen hypersexualized women who display blatantly physical sexual characteristics, normal girls just don’t deliver that same kick and drive in terms of arousal. It’s not even just a porn issue, but simply the comparison between a five who doesn’t use makeup but has a compatible personality and the hot guido girls* who approach near pornstar levels of sexual appearance. The personality doesn’t create the sexual desire, and she ends up falling into the friend zone where you hope she’ll remain single for one’s own convienience.

    *A random google search should help. Otherwise, just think of the girls on the Hot Girls With Douchebag blog as an example of what turns David on in the “real” world. Non-date could theoretically approach that if she got a fake tan, put on lots of make-up, acrylic nails, revealing clothing, and sported heels everyday…

    The worst quality about a beta male is his self-defeatism.

    I prefer to think of it as realism.

    Like


  337. Maurice that’s worrisome over the long term – genetics are involved and there are secular trends. rest assured she will not be slim in her 40s.
    Only if she returns to her former eating habits. She will have to adjust her diet for middle age ie eat fewer calories and light weight training.

    kinda off topic: Dolly Parton lost a lot of weight a long time ago. I don’t think she has ever regained more than 5 lbs.

    Welmer He is, but she should enjoy it while it lasts, because he’s got that look that doesn’t hold up over time. You can see where the corners of the eyes and mouth will fall with time.
    Please Welmer , don’t mess up a fantasy guy.

    Like


  338. @Meagain

    Okay, I know what I need to know.

    You’re motivated at least partially by abstract ethical matters, even with sex. There are some things you just won’t do.

    But you’d be flattered by the attention and the offer. You’d want to believe he did it because there was something special about you in particular.

    Like


  339. on June 20, 2009 at 7:51 pm Virginia Gentleman

    aoefe:
    You may already be out there on the new first meet, and I don’t pretend to be the best at interpreting things of this sort, but ask yourself the following question: “Am I willing to run this particular lead to its logical conclusion, for better or for worse?” If you are, and I think you might be, then make another attempt to contact the guy in a manner that doesn’t compromise personal dignity or come across as needy.

    Had I lost your number and otherwise been in your shoes, I certainly would make reasonably efforts to recover it, primarily saying something like “Do me a favor and give me your number again”. This is, however, a rather direct approach and may or may not yield results. I don’t particularly assign varying weights to text, e-mail or telephone contact, so keep that in mind as well.

    I wouldn’t have regarded the first message as “overly inquisitive”, but I would have been, naturally, suspicious as to the motives of the sender, i.e. you. If the aforementioned theories don’t sit well, seal that particular compartment and move on.

    Like


  340. on June 20, 2009 at 7:54 pm Gunslingergregi

    I did get shit tested while on vacation. I take her to a nice resteraunt eat some lobster. I notice there is a driving range behind the place. We go over there. (I am not a golfer have done it once before) Anyway I am up at put or whatever to start work on my hundred balls this guy is there placing em which was nice. I am swinging and missing the shit. She is back there in her heels and tits showing in a black dress which was hot except she is laughing her ass off. Making it fun any way I am hitting for shit. She is laughing again. Anyway I walk over and spank that ass in front of everyone. lol In a funny way. After I start hitting pretty good. I guess she was just trying to help me with tough love he he he

    She did give me the complement of I like to understand everything.

    Then it is her turn she is like I don’t have shoes. I am like yea right. I tell the dude to get her some sandals he does. She starts swinging away he he he revenge. She did start getting decent though and no slice was impressed.

    Plus the dude placing the ball got to stare at a perfect set of tits so I helped bring joy to the world.

    Like


  341. [email protected]
    “..My sense is that DA enjoys being a pessimist because it is easier to be like that. ..”

    I used to know someone who went around saying “Optimism, its for the weak.” I disagree though.

    Both optimism and pessimism, in their utter forms, are for the weak.

    The key is to be in the middle of it, between hope and fear, between sorrow and naive joy, balanced with our eyes open to life, and the world, seeing both the ugly, and the beautiful, and shrinking from either.

    Extremes of either lands us in a vision of reality in which one half is attenuated by our refusal to actually see it. The other half becomes exaggerated beyond comparison.

    Watching someone you know and love, a parent, spouse or lover, or friend, pass away before your eyes can be a profoundly wounding thing, but it can also produce a sort of liminal state, here in witnessing death we witness the end state of optimism but also of pessimism. For what worldly state is worse than death?

    Pessimism is a sort of cowering. It is ultimately rooted in fear, no matter how much we deny it. So is optimism. Both are forms of auto-suggestion in which our minds reproduce what we expect….

    Hm, that reminds me of an old song by *Bauhaus, actually.

    Kinda went a little like this:

    “I dare you to be real,
    To touch, to touch a flickering flame
    the pangs of, the pangs of dark delight
    don’t cower, don’t cower in night fright..”

    Not quite poetic, but the sentiment’s interesting. What do we cower from in life? What does David Alexander, you, I, or any of us cower from at times? Either in extremes of pessimism, or extremes of optimism.

    (*Yes, a long time ago I used to listen to gay vampy shit like Bauhaus, joy Division, Echo & the Bunnymen, etc.. The stuff had a good beat, though it does kinda make you want to slit your wrists after a while..”

    Like


  342. I’ve pulled this one, but the point wasn’t for her to say yes, just to neg her superbly.

    If she says no, look her up and down, give her a genuinely puzzled look, smirk and say “huh.” Then walk away without looking back.

    Mindfuck!

    She WILL reopen you.

    Like


  343. Dave Alex,
    Sure I know guys still living at home pulling gals, but that wasn’t my point.

    My point is that YOU need to grow up. Living on your own kinda does that to a guy, gives you a sense of perspective, blah blah. And yea, it does make it much easier to pull gals. Trust me, I’ve done it.

    And if the kinds of gals you claim really do it for you, you owe it to yourself to go after em, instead of fucking around w/that nondate gal who’s birthday party you weren’t even decent enough to go to. Some friend.

    O

    Like


  344. David Alexander is similar to character “Jewish Atheist who posts at HBD/reactionary blogs like Half Sigma or Mencius.

    Where they are similar is in their tireless, endless, undead-like argumentation contrary to most commenters’ beliefs. No matter how many thousands of excellent arguments they are presented with. They just come back and reiterate their wrongheaded beliefs.

    Both are established enough as commenters for people to give them a level of respect. And their polite attitude even to their rude interlocutors makes them better than trolls.

    The big difference to me is that DA is basically a harmless and often pleasant eccentric whose comments I enjoy, while JA is an exponent of Leftist ideas I find vile and evil.

    Like


  345. obsidian

    you overrate appearance. it is relatively more important in nightclubs, less so in “social circle” game situations.

    I left my parents´ house when I was 18, but I had two CRUCIAL advantages:
    – a rich dad
    – I was able to secure a very nice job early on. I was a trader at 20, and more or less kept trading since then

    you ignore the tax rate. people from my age group who don´t have either of my advantages, effectively share their wages with medicare, medicaid, and welfare for minorities. the tax rate explosion is a phenomenom that people born before 1980 are unable to get. also, less people means lower house prices

    Like


  346. Can’t relate to the music at all, but the thoughts and sentiments I definitely understand, Kamal. I think back on the many loved ones and good friends, long gone from my life in this world, and it all gives me a deep sense of perspective on things in this world. In a way, its a dishonor to them that I don’t go out there & go for what out of this life.

    Dave Alex is one steeped in fear and self loathing, and for what? What does it ultimately get him? Like I said, he needs to grow up.

    O

    Like


  347. @kamal

    The key is to be in the middle of it,
    that´s not exactly the first time you said that. Even though there are some situations where your advice is wise (i.e. a menage a trois), peoploe who make it happen tend to be extreme……

    Like


  348. DA maybe an alpha may have sex with you and deliver excellent orgasms.
    It’s not as easy as you seem to think. It takes a bit more than being an alpha to make a woman see fireworks.

    Marcus Hey, now — there’s nothing inherently wrong with nerds who talk about books, and mediocre sex can usually be improved with a bit of encouragement
    Agreed and it’s better than bad. At least he is putting some effort into it.

    Whiskey one girl who escalated to sex immediately because she wanted to glide over developing intimacy into instant sex-love. I’ve seen that same attitude in non-obvious trainwreck women, professionals such as lawyers, teachers, accountants, and so on

    Naw, for most of these women they just want to test out the goods before getting into a comitted relationship. As Mu has hinted at many many times, more men need to learn how to use their body parts.

    Like


  349. DA is attention whoring, he confessed it a few months ago

    DA is right that women only enjoy sex with alphas

    PA is wrong, and DA is right, that not every men can become an alpha. DA himself proves that. DA accepts, PA and Obsidian reject it despite all the evidence

    Obsidian goes balistic with DA because DA goes straight against the idea that black men are more alpha. Obsidian wants every single black to be alpha, the existance of the black o m e g a like DA leaves him crazy. Obsidian, it is just likie HBD, blacks have more game overall, but there are some blacks on the far left side ofthe bell curve of game

    Like


  350. DA is right that women only enjoy sex with alphas

    I agree with this too.

    And I never argued that every man can become an alpha. I argue that most beta males in our society can improve their attractiveness to women by improving themselves. This would make them alpha-enough.

    The beta epidemic is analogous and very similar to the obesity epidemic. Most fat chicks would be fuckable, even cute, if they were slim. This doesn’t mean that they woudl be 8s-10s. It just means that they would improve in the eyes of men.

    Like


  351. Mu Nova,
    Of course. Dave Alex is simply unwilling to GROW UP. Which explains why he’s still living at home w/Momma 5 years out from 30. When I was his age I had my own place and did for at least several years prior to that, and loving it.

    I don’t have a problem with a guy who lives at home with his parents as long as he is doing it so he can save money to buy a home or trying to pay off debts. Living at home shows he is responsible if done for the right reasons. Now if DA is living at home and blowing all of his money on kiddie stuff, not good.

    poerty of fleash I don’t bother keeping track of my partners anymore, so I’m around 70-80 for “full” partners, and I don’t even want to attempt to guess about oral-only partners

    Okay now I’m with whiskey and the others who call BS. This can’t be real. If it is real, please remember than one day you may have children or may go to kiss someone’s baby. Don’t share cups and eating utensils with friends you don’t know about your past.

    Since when did it become okay for young American women in our age group to allow random men to use “our” mouths as dumpsters. Did Clinton/Lewinsky really have that much of an impact on American sexual culture? I bet most single 40+ women don’t behave this way and they may have more of a reason too.

    Like


  352. gig DA is right that women only enjoy sex with alphas

    GIG, don’t buy this. I’ve heard stories from the mouths of other women as well as read a few that contradict with what you wrote. Technique is very very very important as well as the woman feeling comfortable with you.
    There are plenty of alphas who are 2 minute brothers

    Like


  353. [email protected]

    Re/ Vox recorders

    Any of the Olympus VN series will work well, and they are cheap. I have a VN-4100, saved my butt from a nasty blackmail attempt once, and a potential car collision insurance suit once.

    Also not too bad for recording concerts. I keep it in my hip pocket, like a cell phone. Problem, it does not upload audio to a computer (though with an rca 1/4 phono cable you an rig the earphone jack into your computer’s mic input and use windows sound recorder, or a free audio editor like audacity
    http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

    There is a model in the Olympus vn series that is affordable and also uploads to your computer. I have a friend who uses it to tape her therapy sessions.

    The built in condenser mic on these things are *sensitive*, there is some attenuation of some frequencies, giving a muddled sound at times, but you would be shocked at how well it picks things up from 10 – 20 feet away even in a pocket.

    Like


  354. Aoefe,

    He wasn’t that into you.

    Like


  355. PA:

    You’re being inconsistent. Women can and do enjoy sex with men who are far from being the top dog. They just tend to enjoy sex with high alphas more.

    Obsidian:

    1. Black men do have a bit more natural game on average than white men.
    2. The sex ratio in the black community favours men, because so many black men are in jail. Therefore, any intelligent, articulate, educated black man, such as yourself, already has a signifcant in among black women.
    3. Getting 9+ women out is difficult, but far from impossible. Once you get decent at game, the problem is more that there are so few of them, rather than lack on your part.

    Like


  356. We are defining alpha differently. By “alpha,” I basically mean a guy who has something about him that is potentially attractive to women.

    Like


  357. At first I thought that Obsidian’s exhortations to David Alexander are the normal male fathering/coach instinct. But he’s been doing it so long and with such apparent personal note in it, that there probably is somethign to Gig’s assertion.

    DA as an eccentric is an interesting personality and fun for all of us to read. DA as a wanna-be black playa would different from a trillion dime-a-dozen black guys … how?

    Like


  358. Obsidian — You don’t get love. You get conditional short-term contracts as long as you are more Alpha than the next best alternative, requiring a lifetime of a phony performance instead of yourself.

    That isn’t natural, is not what most men did in America, sure as hell does not describe my father’s generation. “Game” would have been laughable. It did not exist.

    As a Black guy, you benefit from White (and other women’s) perceptions that you at least are more macho, dominant, and aggressive than men of other races. That’s the big difference, regardless of the reality of the situation wrt other men. No wonder you can pull women reliably. You are automatically assigned “more dominant” regardless of money/occupation. Shrug.

    As for your “success” … I have yet to see ANY man using Game who could simply be his own natural self and maintain a relationship much less a marriage. No one has been able to do that, not Mystery, not Style/Strauss, no one. Not even Dave in Hawaii can simply be himself … and few men have his own natural dominance built from the workplace and his outlets. Much less his brutal self-honesty and amazing discipline.

    No one is complaining they cannot go out and get girls, that’s beside the point. It’s rather the inability to sustain a ltr into marriage that is the main issue for most men. Heck even DA can go out and get girls.

    PA — Here’s why you are wrong. It’s easy, relatively, to change eating and workout habits to become healthier. It requires discipline but not much else. No constant-on performance to be someone radically different from yourself. To become “Alpha enough” one must be more aggressive, socially dominant, and powerful than BOTH the women in one’s dating pool AND Alternatives.

    For a woman, she needs to be only more objectively physically attractive, to meet a “floor.” For a man, he needs to be SUBJECTIVELY more attractive by being dominant and powerful, relative to women (see the Sandra Tsing Loh article in the Atlantic) AND other Men. THAT is beyond most men, and requires besides the exact opposite of what they need to do at work.

    Like


  359. — To become “Alpha enough” one must be more aggressive, socially dominant, and powerful than BOTH the women in one’s dating pool AND Alternatives.

    Those aren’t the only ways to be alpha-enough. I am not aggressive unless I get angry, which is rare. I am not socially dominant, unless I have to be. I’m more the fun-loving-go-with-the-social-flow type. And I am about as powerful as my dopey next door neighbor.

    And yet, when I wasn’t shooting myself in the foot with learned-betatude, I had no problem getting girls. How did I do it?

    Not consciously, but more like instinctually before learning Game, I just leveraged my best assets. In my case, it was my height + slender/athletic built, “nice eyes” as girls always told me, and my foreign background for the exotic factor.

    Other guys, even betas, have other assets that they can leverage.

    — As a Black guy, you benefit from White (and other women’s) perceptions that you at least are more macho, dominant, and aggressive than men of other races

    Wrong. Only most exceptional, best looking, most game, most intelligent black guys have any level of success with quality non-black women.

    Like


  360. on June 20, 2009 at 9:58 pm Virginia Gentleman

    PA:

    Other guys have assets they can leverage, but it would appear that the actual assessment of those assets is the thing in question.

    And down with Sandra Tsing Ho. Loh. Surely not a Freudian slip, of course not.

    Like


  361. Virginia Gentleman, in comment at June 20, 2009 at 11:58 am I described a guy who should have been a beta, maybe even an o m e g a, but he leveraged his own asset — a brutish grunt and a viloent flash in his eye among a bunch of overly-suave dudes. That’s what worked for him.

    Like


  362. Ricky Raw (the Rawness) reports that as a fairly Yuppie Black guy, he’s still considered “edgy and aggressive” by White and Asian women. It’s true that the street ghetto approach does not work with White/Asian/Black middle class women, but Obsidian is hardly ghetto-street approach.

    Apparently Assanova has some success with a modified version of street/ghetto approach aka “asshole game.”

    But I’ll suggest PA that while you yourself did not feel you became more aggressive and dominant, in women’s perceptions of you, the reason they considered you and in fact dated you was that you were perceived at least to be far more aggressive and dominant, both with respect to themselves, and the alternative of every other guy they could go out with.

    If I understand his method correctly, that’s Assanova’s approach. Be an A-hole, because it establishes yourself as more dominant particularly against dominant professional women who find men agreeable to them in professional life. [I’m sure Assanova will correct me if I’m wrong.]

    Like


  363. Gotta say Whiskey, you are unfailingly a polite guy and it’s hard to get “mad” at you, even when I think you are wrong. I think you are very fatalistic but let’s agree to disagree on that. Perhaps in your milleu, it is as nasty as you describe, and this colors your thoughts on this matter.

    I may have been “aggressive” in women’s eyes, but it had more to do with the way I’ve talked with them, than with my aggressiveness relative to other men.

    When talking to girls (again, in my 20s, when I forgot to sabotage myself with beta thoughts like “women like to be respected and don’t like to be treated like sexual objects) I somehow always “talked to the pussy,” if you will. I’d look at them deep in the eyes, and just kinda joke about something. With some, it really made foe massive attraction to me.

    With regards to my being compared with other guys — now that I got into an introspective kick, — I think that my approach was something of an inverse-chameleon. If I ws around a bunch of thuggy guys, I played the exotic foreign guy with an intrigung accent. And when around SWPL smart guys, I played off my “rough youth” image, being an Army vet, athleticism, and so on.

    As far as aggression and dominance goes (which you bring up) I did notice that I’ve been more confident and dominant in work and social situations since I started lifting weights 1+ year ago.

    Like


  364. *Chuckling to myself*

    You know, if you want to know what I think about something Gig, PA, or anyone else, it isn’t hard; simply ask. I’ll be more than happy to inform you of exactly what I think.

    You’re both wrong about my views and dealings w/Dave Alex. He has no effect or impact in any way on me or any other Black Man. He’s not even on my mental radar screen when I’m out and about, or w/my sweeties.

    My problems w/Dave Alex have nothing to do w/”the race” or whatever, they have everything to do w/the fact that his attention whoring and constant woe is me bleating in rational-logical-“realistic” drag is draining and boring and tired. He needs to stop, and go off and enjoy his porn that he claims to love so much. He brings absolutely no new insight for anyone to be able to use, in fact, by his own admission he seeks to bring others down. Which makes sense given his own very apparent misery.

    And no PA, Dave Alex isn’t eccentric in the least, yet another symptom of our times, when errbody just know they special little snowflakes, lol. Eccentric is Rufus Harley (look him up) or Cornel West, who wears a scarf around his neck regardless of the time of year. Dave Alex is SICK, because he honestly believes jacking off to a computer screen is *better* than having sex w/a live human being. No Man w/any shred of brains would agree w/such a statement. And that’s only for starters.

    And if Chic is reading along, maybe the times have changed. When I was coming of age, one of the hallmarks of being a Man was getting your own place, didn’t matter if it was a hole in the wall, it was yours. Now grownassed “men” livin’ at home well into their 30s-and Women are going for this stuff? Talk about a Brave New World…

    O

    Like


  365. I hear ya Obsidian. If you work through David’s stubbornness, then more power to you. My attitude is different than yours because I don’t think people change until they are ready.

    I started smoking at 21 and as many times as people harangued me, I didn’t quit for good until I was 34. When I was ready to quit.

    Same with David. He’ll step away from the porn and walk up to a chick when he is good and ready. He is a late bloomer.

    Like


  366. on June 20, 2009 at 10:45 pm Willard Libby

    The obvious problem with The Apocalypse Opener is that whatever it does to show mythic Alpha confidence that is supposed to start a woman lubricating it mostly just makes a woman defensive and threatened.

    She’s not thinking “Mr. Wonderful just walked into my life”, she’s thinking “this creep wants to take me back to his shitty apartment and sexually assault me while his drunken friends cheer him on”.

    Women want excitement and the interest and attention of attractive, high value men. But they also want comfort and security.

    The Apocalypse Opener is like Col. Kurtz hiding out up river. It’s mostly out of touch with reality.

    Like


  367. My problem with the Apocalypse Opener is how you get from the bar to your place before the mood is broken. What the hell do you talk about as you are walking or waiting for the Metro?

    Like


  368. on June 20, 2009 at 10:56 pm Willard Libby

    PA – My problem with the Apocalypse Opener is how you get from the bar to your place before the mood is broken.

    You are assuming the mood created by the AO is going to be a good one.

    Maybe later when she is laughing and rolling her eyes talking to her girlfriends then her mood might be good.

    But as long as you’re still around after dropping that line she’s probably just in the mood for you to fuck off.

    What the hell do you talk about as you are walking or waiting for the Metro?

    You’ll be talking to yourself most likely.

    Like


  369. Also, I don’t know where you guys keep getting this notion that only the creme of the crop Brothas can pull Non-Black chicks. Just. Aint. So. I see it happening all the time. One of my former ladies was a blonde-haired, blue-eyed PhD candidate in the Psychology program at one of the better known uni’s here in Philly. Not hard to look at, at all. The difference between me an other White guys in her circle was that they didn’t step up to the mic, and I did. Simple as that.

    One of the big problems I notice w/far too many White guys is that they think their way out of Women. They overthink and overanalyze this thing when it aint that hard at all. It really aint that deep.

    And Whiskey, you’re wrong-you can find love out there, it happens all the time. Sure, there’s horror stories, and times change. But there are a lot of Women out there looking for a good guy, too. You just have to incite lust in her, Whiskey. Being a “good guy” aint enough, and what’s so wrong about that? Isn’t worth it to learn how to turn a Woman on? Why is that so bad?

    I have NEVER used “Asshole Game” to get a Woman, and you know what, I NEVER will. Why? Because “being an asshole” ain’t me.

    Nor do I use “Hood Game” either-though I live in the hood, so to speak, I aint “ghetto”. I’m *urban*, but I aint “ghetto”. There’s a big, big difference.

    All PA was talking about was standing out from the crowd, fellas. He just had enough sense to gauge whatever crowd he was in and adjust or “calibrate” accordingly.

    More in a minute…

    O

    Like


  370. Willard, AO can work, if it’s a here-and-now proposition. Like when I asked a girl out of the blue to blow me. She did it there and then. (Described early in this thread)

    But when you pull the AO at a bar, it’s like you are saying. EVEN IF somehow it works, you gota spend 30 minutes walking home with her.

    If you do the standard convo/game/chat, you’ll just be another guy to her, and not a demon lover who just blindsided her with his alpha boldness.

    But if you stay quiet and mysterious, once out of the safety of the bar crowd, she’ll start to think she’s making a huge mistake, walking alone with some creepy quiet guy.

    Like


  371. The value of AO lies somewhere else — it trains you for approaching girls.

    My o m e g a friend Ace has been timid with women, and I urged him to use lapdances with stippers as a way to stop being so intimidated by them.

    Like


  372. My problem with the Apocalypse Opener is how you get from the bar to your place before the mood is broken. What the hell do you talk about as you are walking or waiting for the Metro?

    You apparently just have to make non-weird conversation. You’ve done everything you need for attraction and you’re in comfort now, so you just have to be able to keep talking without saying anything that will creep her out. It doesn’t have to be anything special.

    If you do the standard convo/game/chat, you’ll just be another guy to her, and not a demon lover who just blindsided her with his alpha boldness.

    No.

    Like


  373. I don’t know where you guys keep getting this notion that only the creme of the crop Brothas can pull Non-Black chicks.

    You pulled the PhD student because you are a cream of the crop guy, among both blacks and whites. You’ve more than proven your smarts here.

    Honestly, as PA has said, most black guys just aren’t in contention for quality white women. But the smart black guys, with their combination of intellect, masculinity, and natural game, will often clean up with ladies of any race.

    Like


  374. @Obsidian

    “But more often than not, a Man who can kiss well, is a Man who can fuck well, too. This is how Women think, they’re here to correct me if I’m wrong. ”

    You are totally, 100% CORRECT. In my experience a good kisser is good in bed, 99.9% of the time. Truthfully I won’t want to have sex with someone who isn’t a good kisser unless he’s really acceptable in other ways like the Doctor I dated for a while (terrible kisser).

    Like


  375. For example, I have yet to hear one guy here-one-including Whiskey himself-say a word about kissing.

    LOL Obsidian, why the hell would you want to talk with some dudes about kissing! Grody, man!

    But since you mention it, there is nothing like kissing a pretty girl for the fiorst time.

    I’ve always been a “journey, not destination” kinda guy in love. The best things about experienceing intimacy with a new girl is the stages:

    – strong mutual attraction vibe
    – the first kiss. (God I remember so many of them. Like Gunner said, you have to have the memories for old age; gawky, pimply me in 1986 at the tennis courts; me in 1989 at her parents’ diveway; me in 1998 on the overpass near Fenway Park in Boston… and my best and last First Kiss 5 years ago)
    – seein her breasts for the first time
    – her seeing my gorgeous cock for the first time
    – feeling it go in for the first time.

    Love is good. All of this is enjoyable only when the girl is pretty and is a good girl. Kissing, seeing her nude, making loive to her, are only pleasurable to me when they are special to her and she has been with only very few guys.

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  376. Again Thursday, while I thank you for the kind words, I just don’t know about the line of argument your using here. What a lot of White Women seem to still be concerned with is how they’re liking for that “thug love” is gonna play back home…trust me when I tell you, you’d be surprised who Becky and Heather are hooking up with just off campus. The Downlow just aint for Black gay dudes.

    O

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  377. Obsidian, I know white women beter than you do. Virtually no quality white women has any desire whatsoever for sex with a non-white man. Unless that guy is exceptional in some way.

    White girls who like thug-love hook up with thuggy white guys. There is plenty of those around.

    Like


  378. But props to you for thinking that every white woman you see secretly craves some brotha-love.

    I too walk around thinking that every woman I see secretly desires me, and it’s only the fact that she has a husband or a boyfriend that is stopping her from throwing herself at me.

    It’s a good attitude to have 😉

    Like


  379. PA,
    For five years I was a volunteer instructor at one of the city’s uni’s. I’ve actually walked in on couples doing the nasty right there in an empty classroom. Among the half dozen or so I’ve seen in the act, I distinctly remember a cute FeministX-type Indian girl giving a Brotha some mean head down next to the rostrum at the front of the room.

    And we’re not even talking about the campus parties. Nor am I talking about what goes down at the city’s Ivy uni accross town, either. Or the city’s smaller Catholic college just off Broad St. And so on.

    You may know more White Women PA, I’ll grant that. But I know college campus life, at least here in Philly anyway. I’ve seen a lot of stuff firsthand. You’d be surprised.

    O

    Like


  380. I think black men with game are at the top of the food chain, white men next, asian men next. Just in terms of the target desirables.

    Just is that way, Sucks to be a beta white guy, but you can learn to to at least compete, if you want to.

    Like


  381. They just come back and reiterate their wrongheaded beliefs.

    Blog zombies. We always come back to haunt you. 🙂

    And if the kinds of gals you claim really do it for you, you owe it to yourself to go after em

    Those girls don’t want me. They want the “douchebags” that they’re typically found with as they tend to have the alpha characteristics and charisma to keep them occupied and interested.

    instead of fucking around w/that nondate gal who’s birthday party you weren’t even decent enough to go to. Some friend.

    I didn’t go because it was a legal liability. I didn’t want to be the “negro” at a part of under-21 white suburban kids, lest anything happen, and they need somebody to blame in case something went wrong. I didn’t have much in common with them, and since my fun isn’t derived from drinking heavily or smoking pot, and I wouldn’t have the one-on-one attention that I normally get with her, it was best for me to stay away even if did make her sad.

    Now if DA is living at home and blowing all of his money on kiddie stuff, not good.

    Had I graduated on time and secured the career job, I would have stayed at home and used the extra money to pump into a Roth IRA and student loan repayment, and eventually borrow against the IRA for the down payment for a condo by the time I hit thirty. At this point, I’m just paying for the internet, telephone, and DirectTV hook up for my parents, and I susidize part of my brother’s commuting costs for school. I also pay off my student loans, and I’m credit card debt free. The rest of my income basically goes to saving up for my emergency fund, potential long distance railfan trips, iTunes, porn, deli, lunch at work, snacks at home, car maintenance, and dinner with the females. Mind you, in the immediate future, I may have to help pay for more expenses at home…

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  382. PA — That’s OK. It’s nothing personal.

    Obsidian — My objection is that Game itself is a radical adjustment to what our fathers and theirs did. .

    Getting women is not a problem. Not for me, not even I submit David Alexander. Rather, it’s the ability to form lasting relationships. I’d submit everything: Game, high divorce rates, Sex and the City fantasies, female open-ness to discussing high sex partner numbers, all of it is the result of a severe sex/romance marketplace imbalance giving far more market power to women. And not even Game can make most men happy. Or restore the broken nuclear family. Because they are all the function of the severe imbalance caused by obesity and women’s ability to share men.

    Again: NO ZERO ZILCH NADA NONE PUA Guru has EVER been able to form a lasting relationship. The best we’ve seen on that front is a “natural” ala Dave in Hawaii regain his inner game by what amounts to herculean efforts of mental discipline and focus. That’s like say, hey everyone get fit by being LeBron James. Himself a genetic freak of nature both physically and mentally.

    The BEST Game can do is take few gifted guys, who have potentially the tools, and make things better for them on the margins. Marginally MORE women, marginally better quality women. It won’t create the social setting required for most men to find women on their own attractiveness and status level as (for most of them) lifelong monogamous mates. AT BEST we are talking short-term marriage contracts akin to the NFL free agency market.

    You are right that it’s good to improve the short term outcomes. But that does not create a stable society with most men invested in it, rather a lot of “Going Galt” David A’s, and a few PUAs.

    Style, on his blog and elsewhere, has admitted he’s never been able to sustain a relationship, he always gets dumped for a “better” guy by his women. And Style probably has more Game here save anyone excepting Roissy and Dave in Hawaii.

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  383. bsidian, I know white women beter than you do. Virtually no quality white women has any desire whatsoever for sex with a non-white man. Unless that guy is exceptional in some way.

    Or maybe they just tell you what you want to hear. Women tend to do that you know.

    Like


  384. Actually, here’s a better way to consider it PA…Roissy obviously likes quality white girls. White women seem to be his favorite types. And quality white girls tend to hang out with other quality white girls. It’s rare to see a quality white girl hanging out with a best friend that’s utter white trash. So if you are going to try to pick up quality white girls you need a wingman who is good enough to hook up with her quality white friends as well. One of Roissy’s main wingmen is VK, a black guy. If quality white women were as averse to messing with black men as you want to believe, why would Roissy voluntarily take on such a handicap as a wing?

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  385. on June 21, 2009 at 12:57 am Willard Libby

    Obsidian – The Downlow just aint for Black gay dudes.

    It aint just “gay” black dudes, obsidian.

    Plenty of your straight black brothers are out there suckin dick.

    Your boy Malcom X was known to suck White cock in Boston before his “conversion”.

    That wasn’t gonna make it into Spike Lee’s film cause black America aint ready to see their boy Denzel giving a White gay guy a blow job.

    At least MLK confined his down low life to other black males.

    Your fantasy about the feministX Indian chick was predictable considering that you were hurt by her apparent rejection of sexual interest in black males.

    A nice racial ego protecting come back on your part.

    novaseeker -I think black men with game are at the top of the food chain, white men next, asian men next. Just in terms of the target desirables.

    That’s because you, like whiskey, are a dork. White dorks are enamored with this myth that black males are appealing to most women. That is not even remotely true.

    You guys are the White versions of David Alexander and his Alpha male mythology that he uses as a self defeating excuse.

    You’re all just passive dorks who aren’t making much of an effort and you’re using other male’s supposedly superior qualities to remain the passive dorks that you are.

    Plus, you fuckers are Aspergy to the core of your beings.

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  386. on June 21, 2009 at 1:02 am Willard Libby

    Joe – If quality white women were as averse to messing with black men as you want to believe, why would Roissy voluntarily take on such a handicap as a wing?

    You mean why would he chose to be around a black male who was less of a competitive threat.

    It’s not like roissy chose a handsome White man as his “wing man”. That wouldn’t make much sense from roissy’s self serving point of view, right?

    It’s like the cute chick and her fugly female friend.

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  387. Libby, I wasn’t talking to you. Your input is worthless to me.

    Like


  388. on June 21, 2009 at 1:14 am Willard Libby

    I made my point whether you want to consider it or not.

    Like


  389. Virtually no quality white women has any desire whatsoever for sex with a non-white man. Unless that guy is exceptional in some way.

    Either I’m exceptional, or non-date and a few other white girls aren’t quality girls. Admittedly, that is the spectre that haunts one’s mind when he’s with a white woman. Is this girl a quality girl, or am I fulfilling the old stereotype of the desperate black guy and his fat/trashy white girlfriend? Of course, the flip side of the question is that I’ll wonder who will be that pretty white girl who loves me, or am I doomed to being alone waiting for that pretty white Catholic Queen?

    You pulled the PhD student because you are a cream of the crop guy, among both blacks and whites. You’ve more than proven your smarts here.

    I’ve alluded to Obsidian having above average IQ, but he seemed to brush it off…

    Same with David. He’ll step away from the porn and walk up to a chick when he is good and ready. He is a late bloomer.

    I suspect it’s more likely that David will take a sabbatical from porn and then return back to it in lieu of dealing with the chilling nightmare of a natural woman.

    He’s not even on my mental radar screen when I’m out and about, or w/my sweeties.

    I’d hope so. I mean, if you were thinking of me, that would, you know, kinda gay?

    by his own admission he seeks to bring others down

    Player Hater since ’83. 🙂

    Dave Alex is SICK, because he honestly believes jacking off to a computer screen is *better* than having sex w/a live human being. No Man w/any shred of brains would agree w/such a statement.

    Again, as I stated before, if the female in question pales in sexual attraction to the females of porn, then the problem is she will be unable to induce arousal, and thus sex will merely be a limp small penis in an damp, dank, dark human canal, and after thirty minutes, there will be two orgasmless, frustrated sex partners laying in bed.

    Other guys, even betas, have other assets that they can leverage.

    No positive traits can wash away the taint of being a beta.

    Heck even DA can go out and get girls.

    LMAO. Now that’s funny.

    Like


  390. Going back to Whiskey’s points…

    Chic’s right, I did say those things, trying to get some of you guys to stepup your boudior game. Most Men SUCK in bed, that’s a fact, don’t believe me, ask around among the ladies, right here in this forum. They’ll tell you. For example, I have yet to hear one guy here-one-including Whiskey himself-say a word about kissing.

    And kissing matters to 99.9% of Women out there. If a Man don’t take the time to kiss, or if he sucks at it, its a tell right off for the Woman that all he trying to do is get his shit off…which may not be a bad thing, provided she wants to go through with it. But more often than not, a Man who can kiss well, is a Man who can fuck well, too. This is how Women think, they’re here to correct me if I’m wrong.

    Whiskey, my problem w/you and a few others here, is that you seem to refuse to improve yourself *at all*. And that’s repulsive to me, maybe because of my “Can Do” spirit and drive. And now that I think about it, that’s what gets to me about Dave Alex, he has no drive, no ambition whatsoever. Getting your own spot is a sign of that, even if its something modest, on the east side of town, etc. But its a first step.

    I don’t know, Man. I hear and see a lot being said about the changes Women have gone through, and its true, times have changed. But they’ve changed for us guys, too. And when we can have an entire blog full of guys who simply refuse to try to be better, Man, that’s a huge drop from where we as a society was even 20 years ago. I just wasn’t built like that, wasn’t made like that, and I’m pretty sure I’ve faced far worse things than most of you here (for example, I’m fairly sure Dave Alex wouldn’t know what its like to sleep on a park bench for a week straight because you have nowhere else to go).

    Oh and Whiskey, my Dad not only picked my Mom up right there on Broad St, and married her a month later, but they stayed married until the day he died, three decades later. And he’s hardly alone. I can count the number of one night stands I’ve had on one hand, virtually all of the Women in my life have been longer term arrangements. On average, two, three years? And I’ve had several that rivals the length of some people’s marriages.

    Thursday’s right about the Black community, but what he leaves out is that Sistas have been refusing to “settle” long before guys like H thought to blog about it happening in White Urban America. There are a lot of Sistas who simply forego relationships and even sex altogether, because they don’t find any Brothas up to what they consider their standards. Trust me, I know a lot of em. Some of em are Jesus Freaks, others just freak out, lol. Cock deprivation aint no joke. But yea, its out there.

    I don’t know, Man. There is something in the water among the fellas here, that seriously warps and distorts their view of things, and the funny thing is, I didn’t get that vibe from Style himself in his book. Funny that.

    O

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  391. the question is that I’ll wonder who will be that pretty white girl who loves me, or am I doomed to being alone waiting for that pretty white Catholic Queen?

    I’ll admit that I simply can’t relate to having such a yearning for a woman of another race. It’s simply unnatural and creepy to want women who don’t look like you.

    I can see myself finding a non-white woman attractive, and being curious and all that crap. I slept with one or two. But the black psyche vis a vis non-black women… can’t relate to it.

    It’s a hate of some kind. Either a hate of the white man, and wanting to darken his progeny, or a self-hate of one’s own blackness, wanting to wash it away in a non-black woman.

    Like


  392. on June 21, 2009 at 2:11 am Marcus Aureliette

    DA:
    It’s probably better than he dump you than he cheat on you. Anybody that has the option to trade up will AND should use it.

    Wow, that’s bleak. And also not borne out by reality. Will a percentage pass up what they already have to gamble for what they may (or may not) be able to get? Sure, but an equal percentage won’t.

    Look at all the stuff written by alphas and PUAs about the women they have sex with, and their descriptions of their current or ex-boyfriends. It obviously supports my reasoning.

    Your reasoning consists of listening to the bits that support you not having to do anything to change the status quo, and discarding the rest. You’re welcome to stick with the theoretical; I’ll stick with the empirical evidence.

    Even if the system will never run to my advantage, at least I’m putting myself out there and participating, albeit in my own quaintly retro fashion. That alone gives me credibility that you lack.

    gregi:
    Yea default you may want to apply some logic from three amigos.

    Love that movie! The Singing Bush just kills me, every time.

    The Big Wise O:
    The problem, as I see it, is that a lot of guys have unreasonable expectations, while not seeing that they don’t have the goods to merit such high post honies. Let’s face it, if you don’t have leading man looks to begin with, its gonna be hard for you to really land strong 8s and above on a consistent basis. You have to pare back your expectations. Lower-tier 8s, strong 7s and 6s is more your speed.

    But that’s not something far too many of the guys here are willin to do; there’s nothing preventing them from finding love if they want to, what they want is to find sex w/the creme of the crop females, and unless you got mean Game-and most guys here do not-they simply don’t have the other things, looks among them, that’s gonna land them those kind of females.

    This makes a lot of the guys here angry and bitter. It is a sign of immaturity, inability to handle reality, and downright hatin’. And lemme tell ya Whiskey, those are traits that turn the bulk and mass of Women, no matter what they look like, OFF.

    When you have eliminated the probable, whatever remains, however probable, must be the truth. And the truth is, Whiskey, that a lot of my White brothers have an acute case of entitlement syndrome. They need to get real, get a grip, get a life, go the fuck up, and learn to ease up on their expectations a bit.

    Good lord, WHEN, oh WHEN, oh WHEN are you going to start your own blog, Obsidian?!? I can’t keep copying and pasting all your posts and adding, “Yeah, what he said!”

    Also, you’re right on the money: good kissing=hellaciously important.

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  393. Either a hate of the white man, and wanting to darken his progeny, or a self-hate of one’s own blackness, wanting to wash it away in a non-black woman.

    As I’ve noted in my own family, light skin is a bit of a wash. If my non-date and I were to have kids, there’s no guarantee that our kids would be light skinned, or would have white features. Even with the absurd HBD excuses that I give for wanting the high IQ woman’s genes for my kids, there’s no guarantee that it would magically transfer to our children. It’s a bit of a crapshoot, so the only real reason to have kids with a white woman is simply out of love, and not some misplaced feelings about race.

    If you’re a self-hater who wants to purge his blackness, the only way to do that is to buy some toxic skin lightening creams, pay for plastic surgery and a vasectomy, and adopt a white child. If you hate white people, those white genes will stay, and his breeding with other blacks will introduce those genes into more and more black people, which “impurifies” the race…

    It’s simply unnatural and creepy to want women who don’t look like you.

    Given the white ancestry in my genes, it’s entirely possible that there maybe some genetic component that seeks women of another race that may be missing from your genetic makeup. While you’d freak out about Polish women marrying black men, I wouldn’t freak out about Poles marrying Haitian women, and I’d be happy that somebody else found Haitian women attractive.

    Of course, given my desires for “sexualized” looking women and white girls with tits and ass, I may be a simple outlier, or just looking for “black” physical traits in white women who come across as more feminine in temperament compared to black women.

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  394. Brief note to the group.

    I’ll be damned! It worked… on the 7th attempt… and not for the faint of heart. Adrenaline rushes indeed!

    Now off to enjoy the spoils.

    Like


  395. Even if the system will never run to my advantage, at least I’m putting myself out there and participating, albeit in my own quaintly retro fashion. That alone gives me credibility that you lack.

    Failure is far more embarrassing and shameful than not trying unless you like ridicule.

    Sure, but an equal percentage won’t.

    If they won’t take the option to move to a better partner, then it’s obvious that they’re unable to secure a better partner.

    You’re welcome to stick with the theoretical; I’ll stick with the empirical evidence.

    The words of the blog are the empirical evidence. There’s isn’t much else to conclude except for “women want alphas, betas who try are losers who will fail and be heart-broken”.

    There are a lot of Sistas who simply forego relationships and even sex altogether, because they don’t find any Brothas up to what they consider their standards.

    My aunt was probably the best example of that. She allegedly pined for a married man who was on the Board of Directors of a bank in Haiti, and she spent her years being single, religious, travelling*, entertaining guests, and taking care of my grandmother. Sadly, she passed away four years ago, single with no children of her own, but with a sizable pool of assets left for her heirs, her 9 direct nieces and nephews and a friend’s son.

    *She was actually brave enough to venture to places with few black people like (Međugorje) Bosnia and Greece, and the secret joke in my family is that I’ll end up single like her. Even my parents are encouraging me to travel since I have few friends and eschew doing anything for a relationship.

    Now grownassed “men” livin’ at home well into their 30s-and Women are going for this stuff? Talk about a Brave New World…

    It’s a bit more common, and for Haitians, it isn’t seen as a sign of failure, but as something parents do to help support their children. Up here in New York where housing is a bit more expensive, the choices for middle class white kids leaves either expensive units in the core areas, pricey stuff in safe areas but not near work in the suburbs, illegal suburban apartments, or NAM areas. So, the only reasonable choice is to stay at home and use the $800 to $1500 on other things like student loans or savings.

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  396. The beta epidemic is analogous and very similar to the obesity epidemic. Most fat chicks would be fuckable, even cute, if they were slim. This doesn’t mean that they woudl be 8s-10s. It just means that they would improve in the eyes of men.

    The problem is that the opportunity costs on both sides is too high to warrant really doing much. For the women who rank 5 and below or even 6, losing weight just means that they go from being invisible to being harassed by beta males, but with no access to alpha males. For beta males, trying to adopt game is an upgrade from 4s and 5s to 6s and a infrequent 7 at best. In other words, given the options, it makes far more sense to enjoy food than to deal with a beta male and his inferior orgasm, or to masturbate effortlessly to 7s and 8s than learn game to bang a girl who still isn’t hot.

    In other words, in theory, a man can learn game and find a 6 who caters to his fetish. The problem is that is it worth his time to learn it and expend the effort having sex, and is it worth her time to lose weight and cater to his fetish and expend the effort, or is it better for them to stay apart and alone with their sexual aids that deliver synthesized perfection and food and maintain their independence and freedom to enjoy their lives and hobbies?

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  397. Ice-T and his very White wife

    While Coco is admittedly sexually attractive, her sexualized physical features that would lead many white men not to find her attractive in the long-term, hence why she’s not the best example of “quality” white girls with black men.

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  398. DA:

    “The problem is that is it worth his time to learn it and expend the effort having sex”

    our biological urge to procreate and our biological urge to pair-bond would indicate that it *is*.

    Like


  399. Willard:

    “Your boy Malcom X was known to suck White cock in Boston before his “conversion”. ”

    “At least MLK confined his down low life to other black males.”

    You should provide reliable sources for this shit. At least a wikipedia link. I’ve never heard it.

    There are two things that don’t gel here. First, yes, there is a downlow phenomenon, but much of it involves interracial pairings i.e. black men white men. that makes it difficult to reconcile the mlk thing. there are very few black male gay pairings. there is too much stigma in the community for two black men, either gay or explorative, to come together like that. homosexuality has been so denigrated in the black community that blacks feel too much shame doing that shit with other blacks.

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  400. but a woman who is a 5 knows that her 10 boyfriend would be cheating on her relentlessly

    Yet, she’s still having sex with the alpha. I fail to see the downside.

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  401. “Yet, she’s still having sex with the alpha. I fail to see the downside.”

    the woman is willing to trade off some points on the scale for some security in her relationship. this is called “settling”. everyone does it. i’ve done it. women have done it for me. we settle which is why humans mostly end up paired up based on similar attractiveness values.

    in fact, this settling is so strong that we are quick to notice when a couple is *not* correctly paired up. we say “what does he/she see in him/her?”

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  402. i>At least MLK confined his down low life to other black males

    not true

    It’s simply unnatural and creepy to want women who don’t look like you.

    you are right. keep banging your sisters. keeps the bloodline pure.

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  403. That’s the weird part. I don’t understand why an alpha would have sex with a 5 when he has access to much superior women who he can extract full sexual capabilities from. Mind you, if a woman like that can get attention from an alpha, it makes far more sense for her to give up the security and enjoy the fun ride of being with the alpha. At least she can say that she had a real orgasm for once in her life.

    But settling on something as important as sex? Now that’s just wrong. Sex is much too valuable to squander on a sub par partner incapable of delivering superior performance, and that’s a reflection of our inability to secure an alpha male or hot woman which reinforces our inferiority.

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  404. DA is right that women only enjoy sex with alphas

    This is utter b.s. I’m about as beta as you can get, but on those rare occasions where I have actually had sex with women, I have gotten GREAT reactions and a lot of compliments. Has something to do with size and sensitivity. And rhythm and intuition.

    Like


  405. DA:

    “The problem is that the opportunity costs on both sides is too high to warrant really doing much. For the women who rank 5 and below or even 6, losing weight just means that they go from being invisible to being harassed by beta males, but with no access to alpha males. ”

    people don’t operate on a binary scale like that. there isn’t some obvious cut-off for a man that denotes alpha=1, beta=0.

    there are many shades of grey, and that’s where you sell yourself short.

    people would love to get a 10 if they could. but a woman who is a 5 knows that her 10 boyfriend would be cheating on her relentlessly. the drive to have companionship induces her to *settle* for someone of similar value. so she settles for 5 or 6 male.

    there is no harassment by beta males in the sense that you’re talking about. a male 10 and a male 5 can say the exact same shit to a woman, the 5 would be creepy, the 10 would be dreamy. it’s all context. if the man meets that woman’s threshold for overall attractiveness, she isn’t being harrassed, she’s being flirted with and wooed.

    you have taken his preachings too far. while he dichotomizes alpha and beta, he leaves plenty of room for degrees, but you are sold on the idea that the world is split into strictly alpha dn strictly beta; you need to get away from that thinking.

    Like


  406. I have gotten GREAT reactions and a lot of compliments. Has something to do with size and sensitivity. And rhythm and intuition.

    Either you are a deprecated alpha who should learn some game immediately, or your former sex partners have lied to you.

    Like


  407. And that’s another thing…

    Dave Alex, so are you saying that you don’t find Haitian Women feminine and attractive? Surely you’ve had the chance to interact w/them socially-I have-and my personal experience is that many of them are very ladylike. So, if you’re wanting a Sista who is “ladylike”-why not a fellow Haitian?

    Maybe its because you really want a White woman, which is OK, so long as you’re honest about the reasons for it. And that has to do with the same reasons why Asian Women go in for White guys so much-in America, White Women, particularly the kind that gets your engine running, is still considered the top of the foodchain socially. Since social approval is so very important for you, it makes perfect sense why you would avoid Black Women regardless of how “ladylike” and “well mannered” they were, because Black Women are considered the low gal on the social totem pole, and White Women-particularly blonde haired, blue eyed White Women-are not.

    And as for your comment about wanting to get a White Woman w/”Black Woman features”, get the fuck outta here. When I asked you to give me a list of the pornstars you liked, the list showed nothing but run of the mill standard White gals. In no way are they built like Sistas. Uh uh.

    O

    Like


  408. on June 21, 2009 at 9:18 am Gunslingergregi

    “”””””””””””El Guapo
    Brief note to the group.

    I’ll be damned! It worked… on the 7th attempt… and not for the faint of heart. Adrenaline rushes indeed!

    Now off to enjoy the spoils.””””””””””

    That is how you do it. Till the mission is accomplished. Thanks for info.

    Like


  409. Errata:

    Thank you, Marcus Aureliette. I’ve said this elsewhere in the forum, but should my plate clear up a bit by the Fall, I may go ahead and startup a blog of my own. We’ll see.

    PA, wouldn’t your comments wrt interracial dating and mating desires apply even more to Asian Women and White Men, given that they tend to marry more than other kinds of IR couples? What does that say about the Asian and White psyches? Comments?

    Whiskey,
    LOL. You’re nothing if not consistent. Consistently wrong, of course. First off, the rumors about Malcolm being gay are baseless-he had CIA and FBI agents folowing hims around a great deal toward the end of his life, if he was gay, believe me it would have come out. Nor has there ever been any truth to him being gay in his Detriot Red days.

    Same deal w/King-while it is true that he did have numerous affairs on his wife, yors is the first time I’ve even heard of him being gay. Again, like Malcolm, he was constantly under watch by the FBI-believe me, if he was gay, Hoover, who actually was gay himself, would have put it out there.

    But let’s take another spin on it, shall we? SO WHAT, if both were gay? Would it have diminished their overall impact and message? Malcolm was for Black people doing for themselves. King was for Black folk being treated like human beings. How does who either of them chooses to do on their time and on their dime, have anything to do w/those messages? Please explain?

    As for my supposed feeling bad by FemX’s statements, lol. Willie, if I wanted an Indian Woman, I could have one, and a lot quicker than you could. In fact, if I wanted a White Woman, same deal. The truth is that what you said has NOTHING to do with what I said to PA, which was based on what I actually saw w/my own eyes. As per usual, your feeble attempts at Ad Hom avail you naught.

    So, when are we gonna hear you actually expound on Game for a change? Let’s start w/the last time you laid, shall we?

    O

    Like


  410. on June 21, 2009 at 9:43 am Gunslingergregi

    Obsid on an asian kick lately

    he he he

    Like


  411. on June 21, 2009 at 9:48 am Gunslingergregi

    I leave for a while come back and the amazon chick has chopped off all her hair. I walk in and just start laughing can’t help it. Gawd dang she is ugly now amazing what hair can do. I am kind of glad she did it.

    Like


  412. What does that say about the Asian and White psyches?

    I don’t think most white guys are as animated by dating an Asian woman as black guys are about dating a non-white woman.

    Not that this is a consolation to Asian guys, who are legitimately pissed off about this.

    A short aside on this: AM’s resentment of WM’s swooping their women doesn’t come from the same place as WM’s resentment of BM in interracial dating.

    Asian guys, at least outside of Asia, are concerned about numbers. Every white (or black) guy who takes an Asian woman means one less Asian girl for him.

    With whites, it’s a different thing. White women will not “run out” because there is plenty of them. What we don’t like is seeing our own hair texture, eye color, faces, body shapes, and skin tone completely obliterated in such a mixing.

    Heidi and Seal: Thursday raves on about her blonde, blue-eyed beauty. Um, if she has a daughter with seal (I don’t keep track), what are the chances of their daughter being a blonde, blue-eyed girl who in any way resembles her mother and her mother’s 1000 generations of blonde, blue-eyed ancestors? None, they are all dead now, in Heidi.

    But nature always has a way of evening the scales. HBD may say that blacks have more natural game. BUT — blacks also have a bad reputation for abandonement and mismanagement. Those untouchable white girls in grocery stores with WIC cards and two ‘biracial’ children — the younger white girls see them.

    Like


  413. My first sentence was meant to say “I don’t think most white guys are as animated by dating an Asian woman as black guys are about dating a non-black woman”

    Like


  414. on June 21, 2009 at 10:04 am Gunslingergregi

    PA
    I am not seeing the hate from the asian guys so much. Since they don’t mind if there kids have lighter skin so much. Plus as I have mentioned my best friend has a nice looking white chick. My asian cousins have nice looking white chicks. So we are even. Female Aunt married japenese guy. Male uncle married asian woman. We can interchange.

    Like


  415. on June 21, 2009 at 10:06 am Gunslingergregi

    “”””””””””””””PA,
    With whites, it’s a different thing. White women will not “run out” because there is plenty of them.””””””””””””””””””””””

    Asian woman ain’t gonna run out. There are many more in shape asian woman than there are in shape white woman.

    Like


  416. Gunner, yeah, there is more similarity between whites and Asians as between blacks and non-blacks.

    Like


  417. You know what else Gunner: other than the whole thing abpout physical appearance, I think what irks people about BM/WW doesn’t apply as much to WM?BW couples.

    I know two white guys married to black women. It doesn’t bother me one bit. That’s because men control and transmit the culture, not women. WOmen, in fact, assimilate themselves to the man’s identity.

    So my buddies’ mixed-kids act, and identify more, with white culture than the black culture. Even their black wives seem more “white” to me than white gals who are with black guys.

    Like


  418. Wait, hold up-Dave Alex is actually gonna suggest that someone “learn Game”? The same Man (used very loosely) that flatout refused to even read a freakin’ book called The Game? Talk about a Bizarro World, sheesh.

    And yea Dave Alex, Women have an easier time getting sex. “Natural” Alphas, they have an easier time getting sex. But that doesn’t mean a potential “un-natural” *can’t* get sex, and sex w/a nice looking Woman either. If you’d actually read The Game, you’d know that. Duh.

    Anyone ever notice how Dave Alex writes about all this? Its as if he’s making an actuary table or somethin’. Bananas.

    Dave, Chuck hit the nail on the head. You are taking what he and whoever else you’re reading online way too seriously, and what’s worse, you don’t take the right things he is saying to heart-like the times he has tried to personally help you. You let that go in one ear and out the other, but EVERYTHING he or anyone else says about Alpha this and Beta that, sticks in your head like glue. Thts easy to do because, as per usual, you have nothing else to go on, nor do you have any desire to.

    See, this is why I say Dave Alex is SICK, not merely “eccentric”. The dude from Norway is just pissed off and angry. Which is competely understandable.

    But Dave isn’t pissed off-not outwardly that is (he doesn’t fool me), he has real problems that could require professional help to resolve.

    I say that because of the way he writes. Although he speaks of “nondates” and the like, which obstensibly meets *his* emotional needs, a close reading of what he actually says there tips off the keen reader that something is amiss.

    For example, on several occasions, he has gone out of his way to note that he refused to attend his socalled “friend’s”-the current “nondate”-birthday party. Why? Well, because her friends in attendance were too low-class for him, if I recall, he didn’t use the term “White Trash”, but rather something along the lines of “White Low-Class Proles” or words to that effect.

    And not only didn’t he attend, but he wasn’t even man enough to tell his socalled “friend” why he couldn’t attend. This is how someone treats a friend? Dave Alex makes all manner of comments and statements about how its wrong to attempt to coerce a Woman to perform various sexual acts for Man etc, but he seemingly has no problem distancing himself from a Woman who tried to befriend his sorry ass. When I first read that account, I was thoroughly disgusted. If I claim to care about someone, I wouldn’t do them like that. Even if I couldn’t hang out long, I would have shown my face at that girl’s birthday party. Its the right thing to do, especially learning of how, according to DA’s own testimony, his “nondate” girlfriend cried-CRIED-because of his absence, his refusal not to want to be seen amongst White Trash.

    Like I said, Dave needs to Man the fuck Up. And as long as his parents-especially his Momma-coddle and protect him from real life, he will never have to deal with the realworld on its own terms.

    O

    Like


  419. on June 21, 2009 at 10:17 am Gunslingergregi

    Yea I think you are right on the assimilate culture thing. May assimilate me an ethiopian to try it out he he he
    She saw me in the chow hall and her face lit up. I was wearing my pimp suit. Been buying shit from her at cashier for like a year now.

    Like


  420. PA,
    W/all due respect, your response to my questions don’t follow logically. Let’s try it again.

    How do you explain the fact, that White Men and Asian Women in fact marry each other MORE, than do Black Men and White Women (although such unions are high insofar as IR marriages go)? And, what are we to make of say, White Male/Indian Female pairings, something we’re starting to see more of on the social landscape?

    Look, to say that Whites still represent the best of what Western, and more specifically, American, society, has to offer, is I think a fair statement and observation to make. I’ve already suggested that the real, simple reason why Dave Alex, for example, is attracted to White Women, is because of the simple fact that they are still in 2009, considered the epitome of beauty, feminity and respectability, and the latter in particular is extremely important to Dave Alex. That there exists horrible White Women, as written about everyday and everynight right here on this blog, is at best an after thought to him. The point remains: White Women are the best, period.

    And the same can be said for Asian Women: to them, who have very similar views as Dave Alex, White Men represent the best America has to offer-it doesn’t matter that virtually all of the abortion clinic bombers, or child molesters, or serial rapists, are White Males. So what?-the point is still, that White Males represent the top of the social, economic and political foodchain in American life, and Asian Women have proven, by voting with their feet, that given the choice, they will choose a White Man over errbody else, including Asian guys.

    It just seems to me that you have some blind spots, clearly obvious ones, on this issue, PA. I don’t deny the simple fact that for many Black Men, like DA, having a White Woman is saying something about you, like all such mating choices. Its just that you seem “stuck” on the Black/White thing, and seem to not be so put out by Whites/Asians hooking up.

    Funny that.

    O

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  421. “You’re all just passive dorks who aren’t making much of an effort and you’re using other male’s supposedly superior qualities to remain the passive dorks that you are.”

    @Willard —

    I guess you missed this part, jackass:

    “but you can learn to to at least compete, if you want to.”

    Learn to read, or shut the fuck up, Willard.

    Like


  422. PA,
    Also: your point about impoverished White Women who have Black children is legit to a point-however, we have to consider the question of Class here. According to Census figures, among IR marriages, Black Men/White Women marriages are dwarfed only by the old standby, White Men/Asian Women, and usually, those who marry in our time are among those who can afford to do so. In other words, marriage itself is a Class marker. Insofar as that is concerned, what you and Thursday said earlier may have a ring of truth to it-the upper crust of Black Men can and do, makeout well w/White Women, because they almost always marry. What you were just talking about above, is more a matter of Class, ie, poorer Whites and poorer Blacks, getting together. I think we have to make important distinctions here.

    O

    Like


  423. — It just seems to me that you have some blind spots, clearly obvious ones, on this issue, PA….and seem to not be so put out by Whites/Asians hooking up

    I don’t have any “blind spots” Obsidian. I have a very clear and comprehensive view on things. I said all I wanted to say about WM/AF couples, and I have little else to say about it because I don’t care that much about that subject.

    — your point about impoverished White Women who have Black children is legit to a point-however, we have to consider the question of Class here

    And yet when lower class white men marry lower class white women, most somehow manage to take care of their families just fine.

    — that virtually all of the abortion clinic bombers, or child molesters, or serial rapists, are White Males

    How many abortion clinic bombers have there been? Two? The other thing you say is a lie. Child molesters and serial rapists are overwhelmingly black males.

    — White Males represent the top of the social, economic and political foodchain in American life, and Asian Women … will choose a White Man over errbody else

    So when white girls go after black guys, it’s for your mythical Mandingo game, but when Asian girls go after white guys, it’s merely for our social status? Who is being inconsistent now, heh?

    — those who marry in our time are among those who can afford to do so.

    How much does a marriage license cost – about $25?

    Like


  424. PA,
    OK. Let’s take a step back here and look at things w/a clearer head, shall we?

    There is a book I have mentioned several times in this forum. Its called Promises I Can’t Keep. It is a booklong sociological study done by two White, and I think at least one of them Jewish, Women professors here in Philly. They studied, over the course of months, if not years, lower income and poor White, Black and Hispanic Women both here in Philly and over in Camden NJ.

    What they found was that these Women highly valued marriage, but saw it as something you did *once you were financially able to do so*. However, that didn’t prevent them from having children. The reasons for this are laidout in the book, but whether you agree or disagree w/them, they aren’t alone PA-many people who aren’t livin in Kensington or in Camden aren’t marrying either because they don’t have the bucks.

    Its because, getting married is more than merely going to a Justice of the Peace down at City Hall-in fact, most people would have a Dave Alex-type recoil at such a notion. A marriage in our time, means that you are officially part of the much vaunted Middle Class-that you can afford all the trappings of such an event. Now, your “$25” comment seems to be in line w/me, that its easy to get married if you want to, and I agree. But its about more than merely going down to city hall, PA. Its about all those Class markers, and they mean a heck of a lot more to us Americans than we’re willing to admit.

    A generation or two ago, it was very common for people from virtually all walks of life to go down to city hall. Today, the only people going down to city hall are gay folks. Both the poor and the well heeled, expect to have a “proper wedding” if and when they do wed, PA. And it does no use asking why those poor Women didn’t wait until they were married to have kids, because we don’t ask their financial and social betters why they can’t wait to get married before they go to the spermbank, or why the betters can’t just go and get married instead of living in sin. Yea, the truth of the matter is that being poor and being middle class or better have real and lasting consequences. But all those hardheaded facts fall to the wayside when we all sup from the same multimedia sources. The poor Women have the same expectations that their finanical betters do, PA. And they won’t settle for anything less. Just like their financial betters won’t.

    Anyway, there are many, many poor White singlemoms, PA. Moms whose babies daddies are poor, White Men. They aren’t married as much as you think.

    Read the book. Or just watch Maury. He shows this sort of thing everyday.

    I’ll address your other comments in a moment.

    O

    Like


  425. on June 21, 2009 at 11:29 am Marcus Aureliette

    Failure is far more embarrassing and shameful than not trying unless you like ridicule.

    It must be sad, to live in such pointless fear all the time.

    If they won’t take the option to move to a better partner, then it’s obvious that they’re unable to secure a better partner.

    So you are completely dismissing the possibility that they actually like and are happy with their partner? And you would dismiss this even if you asked them and that’s the answer they gave you?

    That says far more about your values than it does about theirs.

    And why are you even here, then? If you honestly believe that you have the matter sussed out (what with your omniscience and all) why would you frequent this blog when you believe that nobody else has any advice that’s worth anything? You’re not even entertaining a dialogue, which is wholly illogical.

    The words of the blog are the empirical evidence. There’s isn’t much else to conclude except for “women want alphas, betas who try are losers who will fail and be heart-broken”.

    The words of this blog are one man’s opinions about how to achieve a particular goal. It is evidence of his own experiences, and empirical evidence for him and him alone. It’s theoretical for you, until you motivate yourself and put his theories to the test. I doubt very much that even Roissy sees the world in as binary a fashion as you do. You are simply going to have to go out into the world and get your own empirical evidence, I’m afraid. That is what “empirical” means, after all.

    chuck, to da:
    you have taken roissy’s preachings too far. while he dichotomizes alpha and beta, he leaves plenty of room for degrees, but you are sold on the idea that the world is split into strictly alpha dn strictly beta; you need to get away from that thinking.

    Exactly what I was trying to say!

    Frankly, I’m no longer certain that DA even believes any of the party line he espouses here. I’m starting to think he’s just contradictory because he likes to see people work hard attempting to make him see reason.

    Like


  426. on June 21, 2009 at 11:51 am Gunslingergregi

    Above at hollywood,

    The problems with game I see but also its benefit is that ok now I have 9 new numbers from 22 days. Plus the nurse chick I met before from about 24 days. Plus this new chick that lit up like a christmas tree. So yea it becomes a problem of too many fucking numbers to deal with. The upside is it allows you to actually be more choosey. So you have the luxary of being like a woman and can just pick and choose while at the same time developing a giant fucking ego. Except a guy it seems can actually get more than a woman. He is the one who can actually hit on 250 woman in a row or 7 woman in a row and bang the 7th like el guapo did. We are the ones who can set a tone. we are the ones who can go ahead and straight up go 7 days straight no sleep and try to pick up 500 woman in those 7 days. Woman on the other hand have to kind of wait for guys to pick them up. So if noone steps to them they are kinda not screwed. A guy can just keep plodding on next next next next next next next score. A woman can sit there all night and nothing. Still better to be a man.

    Like


  427. PA,
    Now I’ll take up your other comments.

    First off, its important to note, that it wasn’t I who made the comment, that basically Black guys are at the top of the foodchain-Whiskey and Thursday was saying that. So if you don’t like that, take it up with them. If anything, I’ve been on the side of Men period, making themselves into better Men, not just for Black Men.

    Moreover, I’ve never had a problem with interracial marriage, or just sex, as clearly you have. For me, I see it as a matter of personal choice and freedom of association, you apparently do not. For example, why I criticize his reasoning, I don’t begrudge Dave Alex’s choice to have sex with and/or marry, White Women. I say he has the right to make that choice. From th discussions I’ve seen between you two, you don’t seem to share that same point of view.

    My point PA is simply, that clearly Asian Women have reasons that go beyond mere “love” as to why *so many of them* invariably choose White Males as lifelong mates. And I posit that’s because, that White Males represent the best of what America has to offer-and, conversely, it explains very well, why one is hardpressed to find many Asian Women/Black Men couples, because right, wrong or indifferent, Black Men are seen as “damaged goods”. It doesn’t really matter in the end if whether individuals matter, or, if the facts matter-perception IS reality, PA. So it doesn’t matter that, as you said recently of myself, that I’m a hard working and honest Black guy-all Asain Women know is that Black guys overall are the opposite of that are presented as such, therefore, I don’t get an “audition” so to speak. Not that I’m pining away for Asian Women, trust me, I’m not. I’m just illustrating a point.

    Mating choices, be they short or longterm, say a great deal about us, how we see ourselves, how we see others, and our perceptions of the world. And, sad but true, very often, there is a ring of truth behind these perceptions and stereotypes. Asian Women can rail against being typecast as soft, passive feminine all they want, the truth is, there’s some truth to that old saw. Same deal w/Black Men being more well endowed than errbody else, while also having a tendency toward having trouble w/the law. And so on.

    We don’t like to confront these things about ourselves, because of the things we’ve been taught culturewise. I think those teachings serve a good purpose, so long as they aren’t taken to extremes. That said, being brutally honest w/ourselves about our motivations, especially in an area that’s so idealized and romanticized as relationships, sex and so on, can be too much to bear for many of us. And refusing t be honest with ourselves, leads not only to all sorts of problems, but ultimately leads to people getting hurt.

    I’ll hold here. Holla back

    O

    Like


  428. on June 21, 2009 at 11:58 am Gunslingergregi

    He is the one who can actually hit on 250 woman in a row or 7 woman in a row and bang the 7th like el guapo did.
    Except now he has one in the stable. Now he can do it again.
    250 woman 7 in a row and bang. Now he has two in stable.
    Again the next week or month or 2 months. 250 woman 7 in a row and bang. now potentially 3 in stable. Then it becomes the point of maybe you may have to make a cut if the next one you get is better than the others. This puts the man in the total position of pure power.

    My wife doesn’t have to think she knows I am with her because I love her. She knows I can get another woman no problem. She still for some reason fears I will leave her. Not sure how to completely fix that one or even if it is advisable.

    Like


  429. For beta males, trying to adopt game is an upgrade from 4s and 5s to 6s and a infrequent 7 at best.

    No, for beta males, learning game means going from NO PUSSY AT ALL to actually getting some. Betas aren’t regularly banging 4s and 5s – they are getting nothing at all, and from that standpoint, learning game and getting 6s and 7s is a major upgrade. This should be sufficient incentive to any beta who hasn’t completely given up.

    Like


  430. MA,
    Dave Alex is sick. I’m not saying that to be funny. I’m serious. He is at war w/himself, which explains why he keeps coming back here. As you rightly point out, his comments make no sense in the least, there’s no rational thought to it, only if one considers that they all serve as a justification for Dave not to do anything about his life.

    Notice that he takes the route of least resistance consistently, not just in the area of Women, but overall. For example, instead of finding reasons why he should be on his own, he’ll find reasons why he shouldn’t. Instead of finding a reason why he should go to his socalled nondate friend’s birthday party, he finds reasons why he shouldn’t. And so on.

    Dave Alex’s purpose here is to convince himself, and hopefully a few others, that life simply aint worth living. So far, thank God, he’s been a party of one.

    Which is how it should be. He has struck out on a lonely path. He should continue to walk it.

    Alone.

    O

    Like


  431. Thank you, Tarl. My sentiments exactly, please see my comments above addressed to Whiskey.

    There’s simply no logical, rational argument to be made against the simple fact, that a Man who’s getting no sex at all, learns how to attract Women and gets sex, say, six months later, is somehow worse off. Just doesn’t wash.

    Dave, and to a lesser extent, Whiskey, are gonna have to try a lot harder than that.

    O

    Like


  432. My bad, my comments were addressed to “Willie”, NOT Whiskey.

    Now, these comments ARE addressed to Whiskey:

    I hear all that you’re saying, but yore not hearing what I’m saying-I’m telling you that the vast majority of dealings I’ve had w/Women have been longterm engagements, two to three years on average. I can count the number of one night stands I’ve had in my life on one hand, and that’s not because I can’t get them, but rather because that’s not how I choose to roll.

    Again, Whiskey, you are akin to Dave Alex in that you simply refuse to make any adjustments to make your life chances any better. So what Mystery nor Style have never had longterm relationships? What does that have to do w/my life, or yours? If I want a longterm relationship, I get one, simple as that.

    Whiskey, I’m sorry, but I just don see a “can do” spirit in you, and I see this trend in a lot of the guys that frequent this place. That’s OK-people have the right to be, or not to be. But to attempt to say that it can’t be done, is bull, because I know for a fact that it can be done.

    Instead of focusing on what’s wrong w/things, focus on what YOU can do to make thins better. There aint a darned thing you or any other Man can do about White Women being overweight, Whiskey. Nothing. That’s not a problem you can or should solve.

    Now-what are you going to do about it? Well, one thing you can do about it, is to focus on those White gals who aint so rotund. But that means, you gotta seperate yourself from the pack a bit-why? Simple supply and demand. The slim White gals you White guys go gaa gaa for know they in demand-and if you want em, you gotta go above and beyond the call of duty to get em. He’s written about this before, so I don’t need to repeat so much here, but my main point is that there aint no use to you or anyone else crying in your beer about the unfairness of it all-LIFE is inherently unfair. What seperates Men from Boys is that one meets life on its own terms and the other whines and cries about it.

    Now, if I were you or any of these other White guys complaining about the weight thing, I’d do something about it-either I’d learn what I needed in order to land the slender gal I wanted, or, I’d save my pennies for a plane ticket over to Eastern Europe where, supposedly, I can find many slim goodies. But what I wouldn’t do, is bitch and moan about how it aint fair that the girls get to have all the fun.

    You often make a big deal out of the John McClaine/Die Hard character, about how we don’t have heroes like that anymore. Fate is not without a profound sense of irony, Whiskey, because your own words prove that to be true. McClaine was/is, in many ways, the anti-hero – he was impossible to live with, was in constant danger of being fired from his job, was an alcoholic and estranged from his kids, and worse, found himself outgunned, outmanned, in some of thee worst situations possible. And yet, he didn’t throw in the towel and give up, and he had every reason, “logically”, “rationally”, to do so. McClaine was no John Wayne, or Roy Rogers, lol, but he had it where it counted-he was street-smart, resourceful, and outside the box thinker, and most of all, he just had balls, which is something I am sad to report a lot of guys have a whole lot less of these days. I mean really, what Woman would want to crawl into bed w/such a sorry, sad sack?

    Yea, Women definitely do have the upperhand these days, there’s no doubt about it. They can get sex fairly easily, and w/the Men they want, if only for a night. And yea, a Woman can do a mean job on you in a marriage, or even on the job. Tru dat.

    BUT-there are literally millions of Women who don’t want to be pumped and dumped, Whiskey, and that includes those who hang out in the bars. Why? Because Women are inherently wired that way. I can tell you, and anyone else reading along, that NO WOMAN can ever hope to win, trying to out-bun-n-run ANY Man. Pump & Dump is a Man’s game, and no Woman can hope to win it; she can only lose. Some Women learn this great truth early on and act accordingly; for others, the lesson will only come, after many cruel mornings after a seriously misguided night.

    So, its for this reason, that I am very hopeful that “our side” will ultimately win out. But that doesn’t help me RIGHT NOW. I have to do what best suits me and helps my situation, TODAY. And now, just about any Man can improve his life wrt Women, if he wants to. No, he may not be able to get the HB10s. But if he was getting NOTHING this time last year, and this time next year is knocking down consistent 5s and 6s, Man, he’s hit the Motherlode, and no guy who’s actually been there you’ll be able to convince otherwise.

    So, Whiskey my Man, I say this: if you’re not getting what you want, you need to take that great analytical mind and apply it to solving one of thee most important problems of your life-how does a guy in a post-feminist, post-marriage, post-whatever else world, find and keep love? Its quite a pickle, no doubt about it.

    But I say-if we could put a Man on the Moon, end Slavery, create the biggest Middle Class in the history of human beings, and actually elect a Black President, I am more than confident that Whiskey can find a good girl.

    Mind over matter. That’s how I see it?

    What about you?

    O

    Like


  433. Obsidian – If anything, I’ve been on the side of Men period, making themselves into better Men

    I do recognize that in you and that’s why you have my respect.

    Like


  434. on June 21, 2009 at 12:46 pm Gunslingergregi

    Kissing is for sissies.

    Like


  435. on June 21, 2009 at 12:47 pm Virginia Gentleman

    Obsidian:

    I don’t know; if he picks up VD or something, perhaps he might actually be worse off.

    PA:
    I’ve got to admit, the “mythical Mandingo game” line made me laugh. Thanks for lightening the day!

    Like


  436. I made my point whether you want to consider it or not.

    No one EVER considers your points Libby. Haven’t you picked that up yet?

    Like


  437. whiskey-if anything, I’d say that I use a modified version of Tucker Max style game in the sense that during the day I’ll bullshit with you and you won’t even know that I’m an asshole, but when I’m at bars, I am a witty asshole. If you were to talk to me, you’d notice that I sound like a white guy. However, I do have the attitude of a black guy where I am just really chill once I have your attention, and I have no problem being direct, doing what I want, and telling you how it is.

    About Black Guys Having It Easy- I don’t know where that comes from, but MOST black guys have it harder than white guys. Why? Because white women know that when it comes to black guys, they can get the creme of the crop. Most black men don’t get into serious relationships, which means that the alphas are always available for sex. If you ever see a black guy that isn’t extremely buff, good-looking, or charismatic, with a good looking white girl, then I can guarantee you that it will only be a matter of time until one of the black alphas steal her away from him.

    That leaves the beta black males below decent white men. Why? Because for a lot of white women (not all), dating a black guy brings a lot of social pressure. Many white women simply won’t date black men because of the pressure from their friends and family not to do so. Many white women that aren’t use to dating black guys won’t even risk it unless the black guy is the creme of the crop. What this means is that unless the black guy is at the top of the foodchain, she(white women) will date a white guy.

    You wouldn’t believe how many black guys have come to me asking how they can get a white woman. It’s constant. Unless you are a black guy that is charismatic, good-looking, or buff, you are fucked. Most black men aren’t the way they’re portrayed in the media as this perfectly built Adonis that just oozes with charisma.

    Like


  438. One more thing. What I said about beta black men above is why there is the stereotype that black men like fat white women. What you are seeing is the beta black men who want white women, but can’t get the good-looking ones, so they settle on having the fat ones that neither the alpha black men or white guys in general don’t want.

    Like


  439. LR-

    Now giving BJs is “disgusting” to you. You really are a winner.

    Like


  440. PA:

    With whites, it’s a different thing. White women will not “run out” because there is plenty of them. What we don’t like is seeing our own hair texture, eye color, faces, body shapes, and skin tone completely obliterated in such a mixing.

    Heidi and Seal: Thursday raves on about her blonde, blue-eyed beauty. Um, if she has a daughter with seal (I don’t keep track), what are the chances of their daughter being a blonde, blue-eyed girl who in any way resembles her mother and her mother’s 1000 generations of blonde, blue-eyed ancestors? None, they are all dead now, in Heidi.

    this is a serious response for PA and Obsidian on the above quote. i strongly think that PA’s central concern is the real reason why racism even exists (when taken to extremes that PA is not insinuating, of course). the cultural concerns previously raised by PA are completely subordinate to the biological ones and the phenotypic implications.

    various people don’t want to see their ethnic look disappear. furthermore, they are not of the belief that the phenotypes of the resultant mixed offspring will make up for the loss of phenotypes of the ‘pure’ blooded parents. i don’t think that only some white guys, like PA, share this belief. i’ve heard black guys, like mohammed ali, say the exact same thing about why he doesn’t support interracial mating (the irony, of course, is that he’s part Irish). it wouldn’t surprise me if most people of any race harbor this preference to varying degrees.

    however, we already have the technology to manipulate traits like eye color, hair color and skin color.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2009/03/02/2009-03-02_custommade_babies_delivered_fertility_cl.html

    that story made national news. the science is not going to stop. if america and europe stifle it, it will just go to china, india or south korea. suggesting that within the next few decades we will be able to manipulate all significant physical traits is not an inane assertion.

    however, if this is true, there won’t be need for such a ethnocentric concern within the foreseeable future (i.e. within this century). human phenotypes will be largely malleable.

    in fact, with mass application of genetic engineering, it is entirely possible that the world will actually ‘lighten’ and become more caucasoid, not less. as i’ve said before, if you look at telemundo, univision or bollywood, there are a lot of non- white masses who seem to really like caucasoid features. if they could choose (using their own DNA, not with surrogate DNA), i don’t see how they won’t choose to lighten their progeny. to anybody who disagrees, show me one heterogeneous country that doesn’t strongly value ‘light’ features, especially for women.

    if anything, willard libby and lurker are going to need to make room at the family get togethers for the coming ‘new’ white family members!

    Like


  441. @aoefe

    read your story. maybe im too late, but…
    sounds like the guy likes you, but not enough to go forward with another date. he’s keeping you around without outright rejecting you.

    it’s what i do to guys that i hung out with, liked, but not liked enough to move into that relationship realm. so i avoid them through technology (texts, emails), don’t call or answer their calls (b/c i don’t want to get roped into another date). gives me time to see if someone else comes along, or if my feelings will grow (they usually don’t).

    doesn’t mean he doesn’t like you! and he might be “into” you. he’s just not into making any huge moves right now.

    best thing is to do nothing and live your life.

    ah, it’s simple what we women must do.

    Like


  442. i have been reading some of the commentary on this website, seems some of the guys are insecure about their abilities with women or have altogether given up on finding a woman.

    this is exactly the type of attitude that women disdain. it’s what keeps you from getting with anyone.

    from my POV, guys have the upper-hand in the dating world. they may have more responsibility, but they have more agency. women may have more selective power, but they have less choice.

    women mainly operate from their looks and their social status, two things that are not easy for a woman to manipulate.

    men seem to operate mainly from their social status, but also from their attitude and skills. a man can live at home, he can have a low paying or no job… and still get women interested in him for sex or a relationship.

    but even the most accomplished and savvy woman cannot get men interested in her for more than sex if she doesn’t “look” right.

    for a lot of men, the key thing needed is to know how to approach a woman. some men psych themselves out from the beginning by thinking too hard.

    for men with these issues, just remember that women want men in their lives. they want boyfriends, lovers, husbands. and even a woman on the 7- 10 scale will date a man on the 5 to 6 scale if he has “balls”. but first you have to take some initiative and don’t feel sorry for yourself. Game is an equalizer for the sexes.

    Like


  443. @dreamer

    I am aware he’s not that into me, it just surprises me is all because he gave off different signals the night we met. I think it might have to do with my laughing rejection of going to his house for a ‘massage’ the day after we met. The last three guys I’ve met made it pretty clear they were looking for a move to a sexual relationship ASAP. Believe me I’m not against sex, love it in fact, but it’s not the soul reason I’m looking. The dudes I’m meeting I don’t believe want a relationship with me as much as they want to…you know. The dude I referred to above talked about his newfound Christian beliefs which I thought meant he wouldn’t want to jump in the sack date number 2. Wrong. I hear the men here talk about getting some and I’m meeting those men, but what about who want some and then some more.

    As to doing nothing and living your life…not sure about the nothing part, but living life I’m all for! 🙂

    Enough of my dating woes…on to other matters, please and thank you.

    Like


  444. Assanova,
    Finally, we meet, lol. What up? Just wanted to jump in on your point about Black Men/White Women:

    Your point about “Black Betas” leaves out Class. Simply put, there are more overweight Women in the lower than the higher classes, though that’s rapidly changing and dress size averages accross the country bears this out. So, perhaps what you’re talking about, wrt the creme of the crop “Black Alphas”, has as much to do w/Class as anything else.

    O

    Like


  445. Freak,
    Interesting comments. But they’re kind of contradictory; on the one side you note how a lot of countries’ (not all) elites tend to be White, while at the same time, you also note that quite a few people will not want to see its looks change.

    As for Ali, we have to note that his heritage, like most African Americans’, is partially White. That’s something he had no say in. His views on relationships insofar as interracial goes, are another matter, because he can choose as to whether he wants to further add White DNA to his family’s gene pool or not.

    As for lighter skinned females and beauty, this is something that is seen accross races and cultures, yes I agree. However, over the past few hundred years, particularly in the USA and the West more generally, no one can deny that racism has also played a hand in denigrating non-White, and especially Black feminine beauty, while exalting White. However, the irony is, that as we know, White Men certainly didn’t have any problem availing themselves of some of that Darkmeat after the sun went down. Its the chief reason why there are so many lighter skinned Black people in existence (Ali) today.

    I’m pretty sure there will be those who will make use of whatever tech they can to make themselves look White(r), and for my part I have no problem with that; its their personal choice. But if the examples we know of are any indication, ie Michael Jackson, these people are rarely happier for it.

    For my own part, I like variety, and like the Black features of many of my Sistas. And that runs the gamut, from Redbone to Dark n Lovely. Viva la difference.

    As for interracial sexuality, mating and breeding, heck, that’s as old as Humanity itself, and ain’t goin’ anywhere anytime soon. Might as well get used to it.

    O

    Like


  446. Heidi and Seal: Thursday raves on about her blonde, blue-eyed beauty. Um, if she has a daughter with seal (I don’t keep track), what are the chances of their daughter being a blonde, blue-eyed girl who in any way resembles her mother and her mother’s 1000 generations of blonde, blue-eyed ancestors? None, they are all dead now, in Heidi.

    The chances are equally unlikely of the kids having the same skin color and hair texture and features of Seal either. You make it sound like it’s only the white parents that loses its features in the kid. Besides, the kid will still remember both parents partially anyway.

    Like


  447. Dreamer

    …from my POV, guys have the upper-hand in the dating world. they may have more responsibility, but they have more agency. women may have more selective power, but they have less choice.

    Says the women that keeps men on a technology leash until something better comes along.

    It is a bit like US politics in that Congress (men) vote but the President (women) can veto. And unlike DC, men cannot override that veto with a vote of 60 percent of their friends.

    The veto is all-powerful. With the veto the votes do not matter.

    As a matter of interest, how many men put up with that in-case-of-emergency-break-glass thing. I mean when the alpha on a white horse does not turn up, how do you reengage your second-string fall back? Do they actually put up with that?

    Aoefe:
    This is a case where the dating advice is the same for men and women. Delete his number and e-mail. If he calls back tell him you assumed he was not interested and moved on. Hang up. If you want you can give that speech you were going to yell outside his house, but I would make it crisp and clear: you had your chance, you did not take it, fuck off. [I am sure you will be more polite than that –Indeed I am mostly more polite than that too.] However, the message should be clear, no chit-chat, just thanks-but-no-thanks and hang up.

    Like


  448. Obsidian:

    But they’re kind of contradictory; on the one side you note how a lot of countries’ (not all) elites tend to be White, while at the same time, you also note that quite a few people will not want to see its looks change.

    i think this is a good point. lemme clarify it this way, some people don’t want to see the looks of their ethnicity change significantly (PA, mohammed ali, etc..). however, it is also clear that a lot of non- white peoples would have no problem if they could ‘lighten’ their progeny, esp. using their own DNA to do so. in fact, i’d suggest that the ‘racism’ to white people from non- whites in places like india or latin america is a lot less than that from whites to non- whites in those same areas- largely due to the idealization of caucasoid features in those regions.

    Like


  449. Obsidian projected:
    I may go ahead and startup a blog of my own. We’ll see.

    Don’t do it:

    your threads will get hijacked
    by guys writing about
    pussy

    Like


  450. Aoefe,
    I don’t know if this speaks directly to your situation, but here I can see where others, like say, Whiskey are coming from. Very often, Women will say that they’re looking for more than mere sex, but for so many guys, that really means “you’re not hot enough to make me want to have sex w/you”.

    Now, don’t get me wrong. I think a Woman should set her own goals for going out and dating, etc. But let’s be clear-if you had dated a truly hot guy in your mind, you’d have let him hit it…wouldn’t you? Most Women when asked point blank like this don’t usually like to be brutally honest, especially in a “public” venue like this one. But when a lot of guys see a somewhat smaller group of guys scoring right out the gate like that, it gets very discouraging, and quite frankly, makes a lot of guys angry.

    In other words Aoefe, and I’m not saying you’re doing this…but so often when Women say what you just did above, its really a kind of cover for the fact that dude didn’t have what it took to move you from the club/bar/wherever to his/your bed.

    This is why Game is so important, because so often, Women want sex as much and sometimes, more than Men do; its just that he’s gotta incite lust in her the right way. Which includes not making it seem like she’s a slut, or cheap or easy. Especially Women like you.

    As I’ve said before, I’ve read yor blog a few times, and from what I gathered both there and your writings here, is that where your most recent date messed up, is he not only moved too quick, but he was too blunt, too direct. His “offer” to come to his crib for a massage was wrong, becaue that’ll automatically make you back up…which you did.

    Dude didn’t take the time to build comfort, and that is really important for certain kinds of Women. I got the impression you were one of those types when I first read your blog, I think it was like a week ago, something like that. I got the distinct impression that you can be quite the firecracker in bed, but only if the Man takes the time to treat you like a lady…even y’all ain’t walking down the aisle, even if its just a lil sumthin’ sumthin-still, the guy’s gotta treat you right. Thinking that he’s gonna score straight out the gate, while not impossible, would be in my estimation, rare for you.

    Your date didn’t use the Clock. He could’ve did the job if he simply slowed his roll.

    Anyway, just some thoughts.

    O

    Like


  451. The chances are equally unlikely of the kids having the same skin color and hair texture and features of Seal either. You make it sound like it’s only the white parents that loses its features in the kid. Besides, the kid will still remember both parents partially anyway.

    true, but nobody cares if seal’s looks don’t persist because seal is physically repulsive by any racial standards. in this particular case, PA was just showing how the resulting kids aren’t likely going to approach her beauty. the assertion by PA would have been less cogent if heidi mated with a good looking guy like the biracial rick fox.

    razib on gnxp showed in a simple post how genes don’t completely get eliminated through mixing and how phenotypes can re-emerge via hardy weinberg. we’re talking about frequencies, not absolutes.

    Like


  452. on June 21, 2009 at 2:46 pm Willard Libby

    Obsidian – First off, the rumors about Malcolm being gay are baseless-he had CIA and FBI agents folowing hims around a great deal toward the end of his life, if he was gay, believe me it would have come out.

    As I said, Malcolm sucked White cock in Boston. He admitted it privately to his Muslim brothers as a way of showing how low he sank before becoming a Muslim.

    I didn’t say he was gay. I said you were unwilling to admit how many of your black brothers out there were on the DL who don’t consider themselves gay.

    Same deal w/King-while it is true that he did have numerous affairs on his wife, yors is the first time I’ve even heard of him being gay.

    I didn’t say he was gay. I said he was known to have sex with some men, it’s not a new statement about his life.

    A lot of black males who are not gay are still having sex with men which is why the black AIDS rates are so high.

    These guys use the Apocalypse Opener with each other all the time. Male to male sex is very promiscuous.

    Again, like Malcolm, he was constantly under watch by the FBI-believe me, if he was gay, Hoover, who actually was gay himself, would have put it out there.

    Malcolm liked to suck dick, get over it. Specifically the White man’s dick. Just because y’all don’t want to see your boy Denzel doing that in the biopic doesn’t make it untrue.

    But let’s take another spin on it, shall we? SO WHAT, if both were gay?

    Right, so what. Admit it and get over it.

    As for my supposed feeling bad by FemX’s statements, lol.

    You can LOL all you want but what I said was true about your sense of racial rejection about what she said. Admit it.

    Like almost all black males you desperately crave the acceptance and approval of non black females, esp. White women. It bothered you that an Indian “sista” was kicking you and your boys to the curb.

    And we know about your endless fixation on the White women. Your 400 year old psychic wound aint going away anytime soon.

    Willie, if I wanted an Indian Woman, I could have one, and a lot quicker than you could. In fact, if I wanted a White Woman, same deal.

    The difference between you and me is you NEED to believe this. It’s part of your deep seated “Beat Whitey” mentality.

    I wouldn’t ever even consider comparing my dating life with that of some little, low rent, holla back, Philadelphia negro. It’s disgusting.

    whiskey – Willard — What about Heidi Klum? Seal is definitely masculine, but hardly the best looking man around. Klum is by all accounts an extremely beautiful woman.

    What’s your point? Seal looks like an ape and Heidi Klum minus the make up and the name Heidi is nothing special – skinny, skanky, non voluptuous woman. And she dated and had kids with other White men before. So what?

    I never said no White women are involved with black males.

    You might as well bring up Ellen DeGeneres or Martina Navratilova and say ugly lesbians have more game with beautiful woman than heterosexual men.

    Have you seen some of their girlfriends?

    Then there is Ice-T and his very White wife, and of course the famous OJ pre-murders.

    Again, whiskey, you’re a dork who fixates this way because you have Asperger’s syndrome or some kind of mental problem.

    You could say look at Larry King, Billy Joel or Phil Spector and say really short incredibly ugly White Jewish guys are irresistible.

    These guys have been with some very attractive women.

    Black guys with smooth manners are the top of the food chain dating wise, because White women believe (regardless if this is true) that Black Men are more “masculine” in all the areas that count.

    Guy, you are lost in your own paranoid imagination. You are ignoring real world evidence to the contrary and fixating on this theory as an excuse for your own unattractiveness to women and your lack of effort.

    White men are at the top of the list of what the vast majority of attractive White women are looking for. But for you to admit that would hit too close to home. You would have to ask yourself – “What’s my problem?”.

    By focusing on your black male fantasy you can say – “Woe is me, the poor White man in a world where no White women want us?”.

    When are you going to come to terms with the fact that that is a form of insanity?

    They probably have always believed this, it’s no accident that the most notorious of lynching incidents involved Black Men/boys paying attention to attractive White Women, rather than Black women paying attention to White men.

    More fantasy. 80+% of lynchings had nothing to do with allegations of a black on White sex crime or as you say “paying attention”. And you seem to have reversed the dynamic. The lynchings you speak of were due to perceived black male aggression not your fantasy about White women preferring black males.

    You do realize that black on White rape is not uncommon?

    Am I dork? Assuredly. I can’t speak for Novaseeker. That is not the point however, rather White women’s preferences.

    No, the point is your deep seated emotional problems connected to your Asperger’s syndrome.

    You are irrational. You fixate on a few cases that serve your pet theory. Do you realize how many good looking male actors/models are gay?

    Do you realize how silly it would be if some woman took that as evidence that gook looking men had more natural attraction to men than her?

    The vast majority of good looking men are not the least bit gay. And most male homosexuals are just as ugly as any other guy.

    The experience of famous, rich women who are beautiful and can have access to any powerful man, suggests strongly that together, smooth Black guys have strong competitive advantages.

    You have it reversed. The evidence is males of any race with any amount of social success and money are disproportionately choosing White women.

    White women have a competitive advantage over all other women.

    Like


  453. Freak,
    India has had a very long racial and racist history, perhaps going back thousands of years. Its certainly nothing new, and White European involvement probably didn’t do a heck of a lot to effect things on that score, especially in the southern reaches of the country, where the darkest Indians tend to reside.

    That said, it is undeniable that White racism had a powerful effect on standards of beauty, etc. There’s simply no getting around this point, while at the same time, as Whiskey noted earlier, avowed racists like Strom Thurmond couldn’t help themselves from impregnating Black Women who were supposedly untouchable.

    O

    Like


  454. PA mistakenly presumed:

    DA as an eccentric is an interesting personality and fun for all of us to read.

    speak for yourself. He puts me to sleep.

    he should donate his cock to charity

    Like


  455. on June 21, 2009 at 2:58 pm Gunslingergregi

    ””””””””””””’Dreamer,
    from my POV, guys have the upper-hand in the dating world. they may have more responsibility, but they have more agency. women may have more selective power, but they have less choice.
    for men with these issues, just remember that women want men in their lives. they want boyfriends, lovers, husbands. and even a woman on the 7- 10 scale will date a man on the 5 to 6 scale if he has “balls”. but first you have to take some initiative and don’t feel sorry for yourself. Game is an equalizer for the sexes.”””””’

    Good thoughts dreamer. Yea where i am now there are like 5 woman per 100 guys. So yea woman kind of have advantage (maybe).
    Go to the real world though yea guys can just keep trying till they score.
    What if you saw a woman going from guy to guy all night prob wouldn’t look as cool.
    Guys just need to realize there power.

    “”””””””””””””Like from rain
    I’m sorry, but NO MAN gets oral from me until her has literally EARNED it in the same way as sex. Men don’t get “special sexual favors” from me any sooner than the rest and I don’t understand these women that go around proudly speaking of all the blowjobs they’ve given. It’s disgusting and not a ladylike thing to talk about/do at all.”””””””””””””

    Does she really have the power. Sure she can turn a guy down. But she is not going to get asked 50 times in a day. A guy can do that if he wants to.

    Like


  456. true, but nobody cares if seal’s looks don’t persist because seal is physically repulsive by any racial standards. in this particular case, PA was just showing how the resulting kids aren’t likely going to approach her beauty. the assertion by PA would have been less cogent if heidi mated with a good looking guy like the biracial rick fox.

    But PA’s point based on his previous statings of it wasn’t about Seal’s looks, he repeatedly claims that when blacks and whites mate, the white child displays mostly the black person’s genes but the white person’s genes virtually disappear, at least on an aesthetic level. This is simply untrue. Take Barack Obama for example. Look at his dad, look at his mom. The guy looks like genetically, he represents both of them perfectly down the line. He looks as far away visually from his dad as he does from his mom. But he also resembles both of them. This idea that the white genes are aesthetically absorbed the the black genes I’ve seen no evidence of.

    There’s a phenomenon in the black community called “passing,” where people of mixed race or even predominately black race inherit enough white genes that they can “pass” for whites. If PA’s theories of genetics were true, such a phenomenon wouldn’t even possible because the white genes would automatically disappear and be overwhelmed by black genes with each interracial pairing:

    http://www.post-gazette.com/lifestyle/20031026stain1026fnp2.asp

    Like


  457. “Does she really have the power. Sure she can turn a guy down. But she is not going to get asked 50 times in a day. A guy can do that if he wants to”

    @Gun —

    Yeah I’ve had women say that, too. That we have the power to make the first move. Women can make the first move too, of course, but most of them don’t like to do that because they know many guys will play along, even if they are not very interested, in the hopes of getting some. So most women want men to make the first move, but they can’t control which men do that. They may get a lot of attempts, but none from men they want. They can dangle themselves in front of men they want, but that makes them seem desperate, so that’s also disfavored as a strategy.

    I think sometimes men don’t realize how much power they *do* have in dating/mating. Mark Rudov makes this point as well.

    Like


  458. This was PA’s point:

    Heidi and Seal: Thursday raves on about her blonde, blue-eyed beauty. Um, if she has a daughter with seal (I don’t keep track), what are the chances of their daughter being a blonde, blue-eyed girl who in any way resembles her mother and her mother’s 1000 generations of blonde, blue-eyed ancestors? None, they are all dead now, in Heidi.

    He says that it’s a tragedy not because Heidi is beautiful and Seal is ugly (I have no idea why you read it that way), he says it’s because the daughter has no chance of having blue eyes or being blonde like 1000s of generations before her. The blue eyed, blonde haired look is dead now in her bloodline. But so what? Seal’s bloodline of dark-skinned, kinky haired, strongly African looking people is dead too. It’s mutual. Yet he only acts like it’s a tragedy for white people. Both of them lose their unique racial identity in their children, but their traits never totally disappear either.

    Like


  459. on June 21, 2009 at 3:06 pm Gunslingergregi

    ””””’Firepower,
    he should donate his cock to charity””””””””

    omfg,

    Well I did read somewhere that you can sell each nut for like 50k so yea da is sitting on a goldmine.

    Like


  460. …not if those
    are already
    gone

    Like


  461. on June 21, 2009 at 3:09 pm Gunslingergregi

    ahahhahhahhah

    Like


  462. But PA’s point based on his previous statings of it wasn’t about Seal’s looks, he repeatedly claims that when blacks and whites mate, the white child displays mostly the black person’s genes but the white person’s genes virtually disappear, at least on an aesthetic level. This is simply untrue. Take Barack Obama for example. Look at his dad, look at his mom. The guy looks like genetically, he represents both of them perfectly down the line. He looks as far away visually from his dad as he does from his mom. But he also resembles both of them. This idea that the white genes are aesthetically absorbed the the black genes I’ve seen no evidence of.

    if your assertion is that hybrid offspring will look somewhat like either parent, this can’t be disputed. i think the point at issue is whether this would be sufficient to ‘pass’ as white or as black. in america, most people of any race would assume -most- half black, half white kids look more black than white. barack is no exception, even though he has some of his mom’s features. he is still considered black by blacks and whites and most other groups, as well. there are various reasons why this is so.

    There’s a phenomenon in the black community called “passing,” where people of mixed race or even predominately black race inherit enough white genes that they can “pass” for whites.

    true, hardy weinberg predicts phenotypes will not altogether disappear, only that the frequency of their expression will change depending on the genotypes of the population. without genetic engineering, more global racial admixture will result in a blending of phenotypes. less ‘pure’ looking white people will manifest. with genetic engineering available on a massive scale, it’s highly likely that we’ll eventually see a global ‘lightening’ occur.

    Like


  463. Willard,
    Can you please cite the source of your Lynching Era information? All of the sources I’ve read, among them the book 100 Years of Lynching in America, the focus articles done by Ida B. Wells for the NAACP’s magazine Crisis, and the work of imminent African American Studies & History scholar John Hope Franklin, say something completely different. I would very much like to compare what they say to your sources. Thanks.

    But assuming what you say for now is indeed so, that the lynchings of Black Men were in retaliation for real sex crime/rape offenses, they would still be illegal, since often there was no due process of law, and vigilantism is clearly against the law, yes? My point being, that even if what you say is true, lynching in such a manner is wrong.

    Again, I await the source evidence of your comments.

    As for your other remark that White Women are the most sought after Women around, I am not entirely sure about that, either. For example, most Blacks in the NBA, NFL or Major Leagues don’t have White Wives. I don’t have hard stats, but I’m pretty sure if you could get the rosters of every team in those pro leagues, what I said would bear me out. Keep in mind please, that these are among the most successful Men of any color in the country moneywise.

    Finally, I would urge you go back and re-read what Assanova said-social pressure on White Women, particularly “quality” White Women, to keep from dating openly Black Men, is quite considerable. Even now in our time. If said pressures were removed we could get a more accurate reading as to their true tastes and desires; as it currently stands, we cannot say for sure. What we can say is, that when they do marry, White Women seem to choose Black Men more than anyone else, insofar as IR is concerned. This is per Census figures, which have remained steady for at least the past three decades.

    Waiting patiently for your lynching sources.

    O

    Like


  464. in america, most people of any race would assume -most- half black, half white kids look more black than white.

    Yes, but this is because in America most people are white, so they use whiteness as the point of reference. But in West Africa, someone of Barack’s color is called “white.” To them, because they use pure Africanness as a baseline, people like Barack appear to be more white than black to them.

    Like


  465. Wait, hold up-Dave Alex is actually gonna suggest that someone “learn Game”?

    I believe that I’ve noted for some time that for depricated alphas, game is their ticket to escape the straightjacket of the beta operating rulebook and have sex with the natural 7 to 10s that are worth having sex with. Game does not work for betas because of their beta penalty brake application system that inflicts mental pain and guilt on any beta that acts outside of the envelope of his betaness.

    a close reading of what he actually says there tips off the keen reader that something is amiss.

    Does the new Republic long for its old Queen? Or does it want a new Queen, something it may be too poor to get?

    but he wasn’t even man enough to tell his socalled “friend” why he couldn’t attend.

    What was I supposed to tell her? “I don’t have anything in common with your friends, and your boyfriend who can kick my ass could be there too? Your mom or your brother or hell your neighbours could freak out about a black guy in your house? You and your (sub-21) friends may do something stupid, and I could be the scapegoat? I’m rather sit at home, reply to this blog, read about trains than go to your party, Athena? Or do you prefer that I show up, act like an attention whore and embarass myself as I sit bored listening to stuff that I don’t find interesting while putting your friends to sleep with my tales of riding trains?”

    Maybe its because you really want a White woman

    It’s rather obvious that I want a white woman. I’ll leave the door open for a fellow (Catholic) Caribbean girl, but from what I’ve seen, while there are plenty of 7 and 8 Caribbean girls, they tend to be very, very picky, and have less tolerance for geeks like myself. White girls tend to be a bit more tolerant of geekiness, and the 5/6 white girls are greater in proportion compared to their black counterparts. On the flip side, you’ll find more middle class black girls who sport nails and heels compared to their white counterparts, even here on Long Island, the acrylic nail capital of the Northeast.

    I still miss my Karebear. She was dark skinned, but she had beautiful feminine features, and she was an intelligent Oreo from Barbados who liked my humour. Hell, she didn’t even do her nails, but she was beautiful enough to overlook that. That’s the kind of girl that I’m looking for if I stay with a black girl, and from what I’ve seen, she isn’t that commonplace…

    And as for your comment about wanting to get a White Woman w/”Black Woman features”, get the fuck outta here.

    Okay. I want a white girl with some ass and tits, and I’m willing to accept some chubbiness to get it.

    Like


  466. on June 21, 2009 at 3:33 pm Gunslingergregi

    “”””””””””””””””Novaseeker,
    Yeah I’ve had women say that, too. That we have the power to make the first move. Women can make the first move too, of course, but most of them don’t like to do that because they know many guys will play along, even if they are not very interested, in the hopes of getting some. So most women want men to make the first move, but they can’t control which men do that. They may get a lot of attempts, but none from men they want. They can dangle themselves in front of men they want, but that makes them seem desperate, so that’s also disfavored as a strategy.

    I think sometimes men don’t realize how much power they *do* have in dating/mating. Mark Rudov makes this point as well.”””””””””””””””””””””

    Woman do have an advantage as far as being able to marry a guy who already has money even though they do not but what guy actually dreams of getting with a rich chick to be her boy toy. I think adam sandlers football movie springs to mind as more of the reality of that situation. Guys on the other hand can develop a harem of decent woman to build something with him at the helm. Once I become a g ie g a day capability no reason I couldn’t be getting 1 to 2 a day if I wanted shit I can do that now basically. That is not including woman who will be throwing themselves at you because they have seen you around and see you are the center of the world. Every resteraunt I go to basically the second time I go there even if it is a year later they remember me and the wife already. Go in the lobster place and they are already pulling a big one out of the tank. I got to play with an alaskan king crab man now those things are ugly. Went in another place all the chicks are drooling on themselves on how I treat my woman and she treats me. Good stuff.

    Like


  467. Dreamer, aoefe

    My comment above was held for moderation but has now appeared (in case you missed it).

    Like


  468. on June 21, 2009 at 3:41 pm Gunslingergregi

    “””””””””””””””””””””For example, most Blacks in the NBA, NFL or Major Leagues don’t have White Wives.””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””

    One of major reasons I completely stopped watching sports it became all black. Basketball, Football. Then you look at who is recruited. Obviously it was not if you where the best it was only if you where the best black. Started early with black kids chosen for running back and fullback, recievers. Just like quarterback even in gradschool was usually white.

    Like


  469. So my buddies’ mixed-kids act, and identify more, with white culture than the black culture. Even their black wives seem more “white” to me than white gals who are with black guys.

    My cousin and her mixed-raced kids are probably the best example of that. Mind you, I suspect it’s because she grew up as an Oreo on the Upper West Side of Manhattan with a mulatto mother and grandparents, and unlike my (lighter skinned) cousin with the masters degree, never flirted with the idea of needing a connection with the black community. Plus, her kids go to private elite schools in the UK and Australia, so they’re unlikely to meet other black children other than her cousins, and so far, the kids don’t look “black”. The kids so far in between Halle Berry and Rashida Jones or sprinter Lolo Jones if you want an example of a descriptor.

    I’d argue that it’s possible that black women who marry white men are Oreos and thus will raise their children in that manner. From what I’ve seen in my cousins, dating a white guy seems to require a big leap in thinking that they’re just not able to cross even if they find the man attractive. In contrast, black men who marry white women aren’t necessarily all oreos, but some are guys like Obsidian.

    Those untouchable white girls in grocery stores with WIC cards and two ‘biracial’ children — the younger white girls see them.

    I’ve jokingly said I could never be a cop because I’d play vigilante too often, and this is one of those reasons why. While abandoning children is an awful thing along with wife beating, I wished that more black men would realize that when they deal with white women, the racists are watching, and our screw ups make us look bad in front of them, and make us look worse as a community, and ruins the ability of other black men to get white women. Just like how crime makes as look worse and our low income and poor educational attainment have the same effect. It simply emboldens the racists who I’d rather see crushed and eliminated 100%.

    Like


  470. on June 21, 2009 at 3:57 pm Gunslingergregi

    Really though can this not be a nigger thread lol

    Dave I thought before you just wanted to eliminate all the black people lol

    Like


  471. Yes, but this is because in America most people are white, so they use whiteness as the point of reference.

    In Haiti, since his mom is white, he’s technically a mulatto, but for all intents and purposes, like David Alexander, he’s “red”.

    The problem is that he still looks visibly African, and if he didn’t reveal his white ancestry, one would have presumed that he was a black guy, and thus, based on that people will make all sorts of assumptions based on that. Of course, this concept bothered my mom like crazy, and she wished that more people would realize that he’s half-white as well and address him in that way.

    If I have mixed race children, no matter their appearance, I’d want them to know everything about both parents ancestries, and I have them learn the languages for good measure. Regardless of skintone, they have the right to learn about their ancestral heritage.

    Like


  472. Um, when did I rave on about Heidi Klum? I think that was Whiskey. She used to be very beautiful, but clearly isn’t in the same class as the other Victoria’s Secret girls anymore.

    As for Seal, he is actually quite a handsome guy. The scars on his face tend to make him look older than he really is, but he has nice symmetrical facial features, and even the scars add a bit of character. He is a bit of a Captain Save-a-Ho though, taking on somebody else’s aging sloppy seconds.

    Like


  473. on June 21, 2009 at 4:04 pm Gunslingergregi

    Why can’t more blacks be more like jackson. He is more like a real human being. Then there would be no racism because we could all just be human.

    Like


  474. Dave Alex,
    This is how you handle Athena’s (nice name!) party:

    1. Get nice “buddy card”, don’t forget to sign it. “Happy Birthday! Best Wishes, David” will suffice.

    2. Get nice gift, something you think she’ll like-a book, stuffed animal, something like that. The point is not to come emptyhanded.

    3. Look nice. Fresh pair of jeans, nice buttondown shirt, fresh cut, that sort of thing. Wear a nice pair of shoes. Since you’re concerned about being perhaps the only Black guy there, you want to make a good impression, hey I can dig it.

    4. You get to the party, say, a half hour in or so. You ring the bell, you got your card and gift in your hand (oh yea, pickup a six pack of soda, always bring something to the party), identify yourself and why you’re there and when offered, you go in the house.

    5. You say she’s got a boyfriend, cool-if he’s with Athena, you walk up to em, you greet her, and immediately greet him, shake hands, make the shake firm. You’re no good w/small talk so keep it at that. You turn back to Athena, tell her you wanted to drop by and wish a happy-happy, bust it up bit, give her stuff. More than likely she’ll want to introduce you to her friends/family, if so, let her do the talking, while you smile and make like Barack Obama working the room.

    6. You stick around for about an hour or so (unless you find yourself having a really great time, meet someone there, etc.), and you make some small talk-about your favorite topic, trains. Don’t make it techie, though. Just let em know you have a passion for the history of railways and trains, tell em about your train sets as a kid growing up, and you’re also into photography. This is probably when some chicks at the party will ask you about that. If it’s Obsidian, he’s going backout to the car and taking photos because he knows chicks love that, and, it’s Athena’s birthday anyway, she’d like some photos to commenorate the occasion. So pretend you’re me for about 20 minutes.

    7. So, you snap some pics, you’ve made the rounds and bust it up a bit, had some cake etc, about an hour, hour and a half has gone by, time to eject (again, unless you meet someone there or you’re really having a good time). Let Athena know you couldn’t let her birthday party go by w/o stopping through, bid errbody farewell, and bounce.

    Dave Alex’s done his good deed for the day, and most of all for a friend. And he got some social skills practice.

    Any questions?

    O

    Like


  475. on June 21, 2009 at 4:05 pm Gunslingergregi

    By the way congrats on the dinner Jackson.

    Like


  476. Minus the clothing recommendations, dealing with boyfriend tips, and card/gift, essentially that’s what my dad suggested that day, yet I blew off that off…

    Like


  477. She used to be very beautiful, but clearly isn’t in the same class as the other Victoria’s Secret girls anymore

    she is hot like hell. do not kid yourself that because she married a zulu frankenstein she isn´t hot. She is a 10.

    Like


  478. Dave Alex,
    Your mom’s views on Obama are interesting to me. I wonder why she feels that way-everyone on the planet knows that Obama is bi-racial in heritage, but socially he *self-identifies* as Black. Why is that bothersome to her? Is she ashmed that he wishes to be seen as a Black Man? Does she feel that his White Mother will remove the taint of “Black Sin”? Please respond. I’d love to get what your mom thinks about this.

    As for PA’s earlier points about lower class White Women/Black Men pairings, trust me, White racists don’t care whether Black folks are poor and misbehavin’ like the aforementioned example, or whether they’re of the Obama variety, the point is that they harbor a deep and abiding, visceral hatred for Black folks, and will use *anything* as an “out” to visit their hate on Black people. Fortunately, its gotten harder and harder for them to do so.

    As for myself, I like fucking up people’s assumptions. Perhaps you and others here have caught on to that by now, but in case you haven’t, yea, I like messin’ w/people’s heads. Like, how can a lowly Black Prole be as widely read, to say nothin of curious? How can he go toe to toe in debates and exchanges w/in some cases, Ivy Leaguers? How is it possible for him to take the bare minimums of materials and intel, and make the most out of them in terms of actual results and impact? Black people-especially Males-especially from inner city, public school, blue collar America, aren’t supposed to do *any of that*.

    When I step outside my door, for real, the only Black Man I’m thinking about is ME. I focus on doing the best that I can do, because in the end, the only control I have over anyone, is me.

    O

    Like


  479. on June 21, 2009 at 4:24 pm Gunslingergregi

    Gig are you mental she is not a ten.

    Like


  480. on June 21, 2009 at 4:25 pm Gunslingergregi

    Like


  481. Oh, and Dave, while we’re still on Athena’s birthday party thing? I wouldn’t have spent more than say, $100 for the whole thing, assuming I already had some things in place (shoes, jeans, etc.). Otherwise, that would be a good excuse to spend a bit more to build my social events wardrobe up. Nothing realy expensive, unless you got money to burn, it really doesn’t make a difference anyway. The point is to look clean and neat. The end.

    O

    Like


  482. so let me re-write: Seal is fucking a girl hotter than 95% of all the men on Earth are fucking.

    Like


  483. Obsidian- Actually, class is something that I’ve talked about in the past. In general, one of the things that I was trying to explain to other black men is that if I’m not around women who openly choose black men, I will pull them by getting in good with them and their friends over time and letting them find out that I am actually educated and that I am presentable to their family/friends and whatnot.

    For many of the white women that I’ve been with, I am oftentimes their first black guy because of this reason. In other words, I am just fun and friendly and I give them a chance to like me and realize that I’m not your typical black guy. And I actually switch my style of game depending on where I’m at and the types of women I’m dealing with.

    That being said, there is a circle of educated good-looking black men in my city and we pretty much all fuck the same women that other black guys don’t have access to because they’re either beta or not presentable enough to said girls friends and family. we don’t necessarily hang around each other, but we’re all instantly recognizable.

    Like


  484. concerning self improvement, one of the easiest things to do is to learn how to dance. just go to youtube, search for dance classes and try at home. in the beginning, when with agirl, try to step backwards or to the sides, never forward. because by avoiding stepping forward you eliminate the risk of stepping on her feet

    there was nightclub, where they played some folk songs, and everyone danced. the white girls would go there, and by the simple lack of white guys who knew how to dance, mthgey danced with old/poor guys. it wasn´t strange to see a 9 dancing with a guy who probably worked as a doorman in her neighbourhood.

    it was open every day, so after training alone at home I decided to go there at a tuesday, then wait a week and go on wednesday, next week would be thursday, and so on. the idea was to avoid being labeled as a bad dancer, by avoiding the crowds that tend to go to the cluyb at the same weekday.

    Like


  485. He is a bit of a Captain Save-a-Ho though, taking on somebody else’s aging sloppy seconds.

    100% right.

    Like


  486. gig:

    seal is fucking a woman that is hotter than *99%* of women on earth.

    Like


  487. @de fault of great advice

    I will totally take your advice and kind of hope he does call/email just to have the pleasure of hanging up in a nice way “oh, I thought you’d moved on? no? Oh I have sorry, good luck with your search, bye!”

    Like


  488. Dreamer —

    You’re wrong, completely wrong, and wrong in the way only a woman can be wrong, i.e. not seeing the water because you’re swimming in it.

    For a woman to get in shape, and at the most get some plastic surgery to correct perhaps a nose that’s out of whack, is something that requires discipline and perhaps some money. For most women all they need to do is eat right and exercise regularly. It requires discipline but little else. Most men for example found Jennifer Grey pre-nose job amazingly hot, and after not so much.

    For men, it is MUCH MUCH HARDER.

    Because men must do two things.

    1. Have higher social status, power, dominance, and aggression than the women they are around in their dating pool. This means they must have SOMETHING that makes them cooler, more powerful, and “better” so that they internalize it and believe it, than the attractive and beautiful women they are around in their dating pool. It can be done, but only with difficulty: a top rated Motocross racer, or alt-indie guitarist, or tattooed bad boy, or Wall Street Master of the Universe, or amateur UFC guy, or BASE jumper, or Ari Gold type A-hole.

    2. Have higher status, power, dominance, and aggression vs. other, alternative men women can choose from. They must be the “best” and sell themselves in a few seconds to women considering them. Since women make snap judgments and never reconsider.

    It’s easier for women because they only need to “look” right. For men, EVERYTHING including how they dress, walk, talk, what they do, etc. matters. A hot girl working at McDonalds is just as good, and sometimes preferable, to a hot girl working as a hot-shot Lawyer. A really hot guy, working at McDonalds? Please. Even an underwear model is going to go snake-eyes unless he does something else — indie rocker, UFC fighter, etc.

    Game is NOT an equalizer for most men. Simply because women hold the dominant market power, by virtue of being willing to share the few Alpha men, and most men can’t really compete long-term on Alpha terms. Since it is soon apparent who fights regularly at UFC, or has gigs as an indie rocker, or what have you.

    Like


  489. seal is fucking a woman that is hotter than *99%* of women on earth.

    Fun Question. If you’re an average beta male, would you marry an above average looking female with a kid?

    Like


  490. I’ve tried a variation of this a few times in college, it’s a fun thing to do and it does occasionally work. I’ve been meaning to give it a go again too.

    Like


  491. And yet when lower class white men marry lower class white women, most somehow manage to take care of their families just fine.

    That presumes white lower class men have the same social and intellectual conditions regardless of race. In other words, IQ may be rearing it’s ugly head.

    Fun Sampling Question: Take two men, one white, one black with the same low IQ. Why are their lives so divergent despite similarly low IQ? How can one get married and avoid jail while the other succumbs to glamour of vagabondry, or merely scrapes by in way that’s below the living standards of his white counterpart? Or does the bell curve just mean that there are less whites in this sphere, and thus less noticeable than their black counterparts? In New York, poor whites “don’t exist” since they’re generally chased out due to high real estate costs to lower cost of area regions…

    Like


  492. Willard —

    Yes I am a dork. I also have a mind. Evidence exists, abundantly, that confirms that White Women are generally (along with Asian women) desired the most by men of all races [Univision and Telemundo actresses resemble Nicole Kidman more than Salma Hayek]. But there is also considerable evidence to suggest that Black Men who are smooth and not lower-class are desired by attractive women who have many other options. Even though Black Men don’t have a good reputation vs. White Men for long-term commitment. This is part and parcel of women not needing or wanting commitment.

    Racial differences along perceived masculinity exist. Asian guys complain all the time that they are perceived as less masculine, even Bruce Lee !!! worked hard at getting that “Cobra” hooded back look to mitigate his perceived lack of masculinity vs. White or especially Black men.

    It does not matter if actual differences exist (they may, or may not) as long as women of all races perceive they exist, and in fact they do perceive they exist, with Black men perceived as most masculine, followed by Hispanic men, with White and Asian men bringing up the rear. This despite the long and bloody history of White Europe and Asian China/Japan, etc. Whose men are nothing if not masculine.

    Shrug. It does not matter what you think — it matters what women think. And for the most part, they think Black men are far more masculine. That’s not everything. But it does give the top Black men who are Alpha an advantage. It’s why a guy like Rick Fox, twice divorced, a number of kids, can pull Eliza Dushku, 11 years his junior.

    Like


  493. In some ways, Whiskey is an older more mature version of DA. It angers me that both of them, but Whiskey more than DA*, have such a defeatist attitude. I’ve explained this one million times but for good measure I will do it again. Women have something we call a “woman’s intuition”. It’s something we use when first looking at a guy. We check for looks(attractiveness threshold), health(looks but teeth, skin, nails, hair) temperament(overly nervous, hostile) attitude(posture, head down or up) etc…

    Within 30 seconds a woman has given a man a full scan, I mention this because if Whiskey allows his defeatist attitude to come tumbling out once he becomes relaxed around his new girl, some women will run away because they don’t want to be “bothered” with his issues. Whiskey can pass the initial scan but when his non-game self shows, he loses the girl. I wonder if Whiskey and DA’s depressing stories harm some of the “not so confident men but willing to try game” guys who read here?

    There is a saying that many blk women have when they don’t want to settle….”I can do bad by myself”.

    *DA’s online persona is an super amped up version of the real him. I refuse to believe that he is as sad as he portrays himself to be on this blog.

    FYI- the attitude that you must project for the AO to work is what you do to pass your target’s “scan”.

    Like


  494. Obsidian —

    I think you miss the point. Game helps only on the margins, and only a few men. It does not and never has, excepting Dave In Hawaii, who is a special case, preserved a marriage and nuclear family.

    Not even the top Game gurus have been able to accomplish that.

    My objection is not for myself (I’m OK, merely average) but rather for a society rapidly becoming what you labeled the Canary in the Coal Mine — Black America. Unfortunately for you, I agree with you. And the rapid collapse of the Black Nuclear family is being replicated in the Hispanic nuclear family and now the White one. Which means that Game does not matter, given the tidal wave of women’s short term preferences for transient hook-ups, instead of the nuclear family and traditional marriage.

    So we better adjust now to the changing social structure: a lot more police, everyone armed, casual violence as men seek to use it to dominate and get women, and so on. Every place looking and acting like South Central. With qualities women despise in men: loyalty, intelligence, commitment, going out the window. In a brutal sexual marketplace.

    Like


  495. @whiskey
    Most women’s standards are not that high.

    Do you ever watch Jerry Springer and see two women fighting over one man who probably didn’t even graduate from high school or doesn’t have a job? Or a man who’s fathered multiple women’s children, and all the mothers still want him?

    Women will break up their friendships, move across the country, play jealousy games with other women, and have a bum’s child out of wedlock just for the hope of keeping or winning a man… and sometimes any man.

    There was an interesting discussion above about women and their power in the dating game – it’s about agency.

    A man can do the asking. He can start the relationship and determines where it goes. A woman? Her power is to say “No” – but she will be alone in the meantime.

    May be old-fashioned, but the man is the impetus for the relationship. If he feels ready for the relationship and thinks the girl is right for him, then he moves it on. Otherwise, it’s a no-go, no matter how eager the woman is.

    Unfortunately, despite all the feminist hoopla, women are still in the Jane Austen era. We have to wait on the lasting love, for when the man is ready and powers it. We can, however, get sex from whomever whenever.

    But what’s the value of easy sex?

    A man can ask out a girl of his choice, might get turned down, but because women *want* and *crave* men in a way seemingly men can get away with satisfying through porn and say, their general life freedom, they will say yes to someone who has the right approach and makes them feel good. And this is something that can be tried and learned.

    Like


  496. @Whiskey
    “…given the tidal wave of women’s short term preferences for transient hook-ups, instead of the nuclear family and traditional marriage.”
    Where are you getting this?

    @Default
    “Says the women that keeps men on a technology leash until something better comes along.”
    lol – but does that give me “true” power? I’m interested in knowing your opinion on that.

    Like


  497. Whiskey,
    As I recall, there have been a number of other Men in the forum who, married like DFH, also testified that they were able to use Game to save or othrwise improve their marriages. PA is one of them, but I distinctly recall at least two other such Men, and if I’m not mistaken, all White.

    I don’t disagree w/you Whiskey-the changed social landscape has been such that Women gain-*early on*. But once they reach the 40ish mark, whatever “gains” they may have reached, quickly reverse themself. And, unlike in the past, and as you’ve noted, Men nowadays have little reason to *care*, once Women have for all intents, aged out of their fecundity. Like I said earlier, Men will win the socalled “war of the sexes”, because the game Women enmasse have chosen is one they simply cannot win at; Pump & Dump is a Man’s game. Always has been, always will be.

    All that said Whiskey, again, you and I still have to live in the here and now-and life can be cruel if one takes the wrong outlook and atitude towards it. Let me be clear-I have not, nor ever will, make the case that Game is a panacea, or that its the end all/be all. What I am saying is that it, along w/a few other seemingly small things, are about the only real levers the average guy has in the dating game. Will he win if he uses Game? There are no guarantees. But he’s got a shot.

    And that’s about all any of us can ask for.

    O

    Like


  498. Mu PA is one of them

    PA is Eastern European and it gives him an advantage over other American guys and he knows it does. He just hasn’t admitted to much of an advantage. His being EE will open him up to women who aren’t willing to date the “typical” suburban White American male.

    Like


  499. whiskey is a weird dude. At first, it seems that he has a great wisdom. Only after reading him quite a bit does one see that he makes things up that have no factual basis.

    Game only helps on the margins? Spoken by someone trying to rationalize their own lack of ability to practice Game.

    Game helps a LOT. Period.

    Like


  500. Chic Noir,

    Detox my buttox.

    -GB

    Like


  501. whiskey is a weird dude. At first, it seems that he has a great wisdom. Only after reading him quite a bit does one see that he makes things up that have no factual basis.

    Exactly.

    P.S. Great handle, GB.

    Like


  502. Dave Alex,
    As per usual, reading your posts reveals yet more gaps in your thinking that I just had to ask about:

    First, what the heck is a “Beta Penalty Brake System”?!? Please explain?

    Second: in your explanation as to why you prefer White Women to Black, you said that there were more 5s and 6s among Whites than Blacks. Now we’ll get to whether that’s true or not later-but for now, I have to ask. How does this remark by you square w/earlier statements by you, where you clearly desired (White) Women who were above the 5-6 range, and by all accounts were not willing to consider anything below it? Please explain?

    Third, please explain and define what you think the term “Oreo” means. My own sense is that, like so many things in modern American life, we kind of misunderstand terms and that leads to misapplication. So I need clarification before I proceed further.

    You seem willing to put up w/chubbiness in White Women, but not Black Women. I find that odd. Please explain why, if so?

    Oh, and since I know you’re a frequent reader of Steve Sailer, on his blog he has a post on IR dating/marriage up; the last line of that post notes that Black Women in the 18-30 age cohort now have waistlines that exceeds the average Black Males. In other words, the average overweight problems of Black Women continues, unabated, according to Sailer. He suggests that this harms Black Women’s chances in the IR dating market, but that doesn’t explain the fact that White Women are also getting heavier, too. Just putting this out there for you and anyone else’s consideration.

    Holla back

    O

    Like


  503. GB Detox my buttox.

    huh?

    Like


  504. Chic,
    Yea, but WHY does PA’s being Eastern European give him such an edge? I say because it makes him stand out among other suburban White guys, and this makes sense, since, Women are trained to look for the *right* phallus.

    What do you say?

    O

    Like


  505. First, what the heck is a “Beta Penalty Brake System”?!? Please explain?

    It’s a railfan reference to an automatic train supervision system that is installed on most modern subways and some railway systems around the world. In effect, in such systems, the train is limited the maximum allowable speed set by the computer system, and anytime the speed exceeds that limit, a penalty brake application immediately goes into effect stopping the train rapidly at maximum braking rates.

    To bring this concept to the topic at hand, the penalty brake application is what happens when a beta acts outside of the envelope of his operation. In other words, once he does something alpha, it will eat away at him because it’s something wrong and something that he doesn’t do. Alphas simply lack such a limiting function mentally which is what permits them to be much freer with themselves and their behaviour.

    As an example, a man may be in the heat of the moment, and spank his girlfriend during sex. To an alpha male that’s nothing, but to a beta male, it’s a challenge to his ingrain notions of who he is as a person even if the girl enjoyed it.

    How does this remark by you square w/earlier statements by you

    You’re right it doesn’t. Why the hell was David fawning over his mom’s Puerto Rican friend with nails? Why was David mesmerized by Athena this weekend when she sported a skirt, low cut top, and 3 inch wedge sandals, and of course, natural manicured French nails? It’s because of the theoretical capacity for being attracted to these women because they merely had the magical basic fetish met.

    please explain and define what you think the term “Oreo” means

    I’d limit it to a segment of the black population that emulates white behaviours and cultural practices while eschewing those of African-American orgin. As an example, I have a railfan friend who lives in the projects, but he listens to Nirvana, has only white friends, and hates rap.

    You seem willing to put up w/chubbiness in White Women, but not Black Women. I find that odd. Please explain why, if so?

    It’s one of those weird quirks where I like thin black girls (with ass and tits), but chubby white girls are okay. It’s just hard to explain. Although, I must admit that black girls tend to have more “masculine” facial features on average when compared to white girls, and maybe that’s clouding my opinion…

    Like


  506. In my experience Mu, Eastern European men(primarily Russian and Albanians*) come across as very manly and self assured. The good thing for them is, women like these qualities in men because we want to be around a man who can protect us. Also the accent and being different helps. An EA can also get away with things that an American man can’t by simply explaining it away as “that’s just my culture.” Funny enough, that manliness that we women like(not random violence) comes with other problems. Men who come from such cultures are often a bit bossy overbearing and will fight/argue over the slightest from disrespect. You and I, both know what disrespect can led too, it’s not pretty.

    Beta white men have good points in the same way that the stand up manly men have good points. It’s just that the two bring out different emotions in women. Contrary to the Whiskey manifesto, women don’t want to kill and or destroy betas. ***

    We see betas** as the tender type who make good husbands, long term relationships and a gentles LM, so that’s one of the reasons betas don’t do well in a bar e where the women he approaches is looking for a quick powerful release from the hottest guy they can score. Men aren’t the only ones who like to brag about scoring a hot piece of tall. You do notice how lil grl^ has that picture posted of her hot boyfriend posted on her blog. I’m sure she has come across a few jealous females who hate but there are many women who will give her some dap for scoring such a hottie.

    I can honestly say, that no alpha has done anything for me but a quick feeling of lust and if very goodlooking, admiration of his goodlooks. For the most part(90%) I don’t see alphas as quality men*. The likelihood they will cheat is high because most other women want a piece too. If he is the Clinton/Obama alpha, you can hang it up. As a woman, you must prepare yourself for the day that he gets weak and steps out. The pressure on men like those two is too much to bare for the average human.

    *I may be reaching with this but I think that it possible that many other women don’t as well and it’s the reason hookup culture is popular amongst some young women. They prefer to get their alpha peen and send him on his way. Date, why date when she only wants to hit it.

    ** not the angry bitter betas mind you, they are another species of men
    ***remember that those of us who have good fathers, love beta men since our dads were most likely a bit beta.
    ^ no disrespect lil grl

    Like


  507. Dreamer:

    We can, however, get sex from whomever whenever.

    But what’s the value of easy sex?

    Yes, what can possibly be the value of easy sex? None to women — I understand that — but how can you be so obtuse you don’t understand easy sex is what men desperately want? And when we can’t get it without massive rejection at best, even with game, there is no way you can claim men have the upper hand. There is no rule saying women have to stay passive until they are approached, either, and rejection will be minimal as the studies show. You have to approach one or two where we have to approach hundreds, and the more direct you are, the easier it gets. Since men and women want so different things, that only rarely overlap, perhaps it is true that both sexes are unhappy with the current mating market, but don’t come here and say men have it easy.

    from my POV, guys have the upper-hand in the dating world. they may have more responsibility, but they have more agency. women may have more selective power, but they have less choice.

    “Agency,” “selective power” and “choice” all mean the same thing and most of it belongs to females. Women will try to claim otherwise because this is the lie that feminism depends on. When enough men eventually come to realize how wrong it is, we will rebel and make the world a dangerous place for women.

    Men having more power because we can maybe get some of what women constantly are offered if we practice our game and put up with hundreds of rejections has got to be the most stupid thing I have ever heard.

    Like


  508. on June 21, 2009 at 8:01 pm Marcus Aureliette

    Will he win if he uses Game? There are no guarantees. But he’s got a shot. And that’s about all any of us can ask for.

    Nobody gets an infallible magic bullet. And Game — like the Lord — helps those who help themselves.

    Like


  509. OK Dave Alex, let’s go in reverse order.

    Although much has been said about the socalled “masculine” facial features and the like wrt Black Women, I just don’t see it, and this comes from one who’s had lots of experience w/all types of Black Women, from the darkest to the lightest. In other words, take Black Drag Queens-unless they’ve been surgically worked on, you can usually tell by looking at their faces that they aren’t Black Women. The latter definitely *do* have Black features, but also *feminine* features, such as eye shape, cheekbone structure, facial/head shape, and so on. In fact, on this note, very often, a Black Butch can be detected by simply observing her facial features, which are a dead giveaway in most cases. So, I’m simply not seeing this “masculine” meme that so many, who have at best limited exposure to Black Women in any major way, talk about. Are there mannish looking Black Women around? Yup-just like there’s quite a few mannish looking White Women. Yet I don’t hear anyone making that big a deal of that. It makes me think there’s a bit more than meets the eye here-in your case, a desire to ingratiate yourself w/”Whiteness”, in the case of White detractors, a desire to vent their animus on a socially approved target (see McDonald’s “implied whiteness” theory, etc).

    As for “Oreo”, the reason why I asked you about it was because I wanted to try and get some clarity on it. Surely you’ve heard about the “trying to be White” label some Black kids give others, and so on. I’ve always taken it to mean something other than was spoken about-to me, it wasn’t a matter of erudition or intelligence itself, but rather *affectation* and *acculturation* that some Blacks took issue with, but may not have articulated in the way I’m doing right now. For example, take Clarence Thomas and Martin Luther King-both are highly educated Men, yet I’ve NEVER heard any Black person call King an Oreo. I have heard MANY Black people call Thomas one, however, and I think a lot of that has to do w/one’s desire to keep Black folk at arm’s length, and another’s desire to lift Black folk up.

    Going to your project-dwelling railfan friend who listens to Nirvana, but hates Hip Hop, we can see this again at play-first, my question to him would, why does he like one, but so intensely dislikes another? Surely it cannot be on lyrical grounds, for some of thee most profound lyrics around in popular culture are to be found within the annals of Hip Hop history, and Michael Eric Dyson, another highly educated Black Man, would tell your friend and then provide examples. Dyson, btw, is yet another Black Man who’s never been referred to as an “Oreo”.

    The problem I have w/”Oreos” is that in their zeal to divorce themselves from what they see as problematic Blackness, they throw out the baby w/the bath water-ALL they see in Blackness is bad. Yet, many of these very same “Oreos” can remain deliberately and willfully blind about the many foiables of Whites-like my noting your allowing for chubby White Women but not tolerating it one second from Black Women. It simply doesn’t make sense, and by your own admission it doesn’t-yet you still allow it. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, of Harvard Medical College, has suggested that Racism is a Mental Disorder-a disease of the mind. And I would like to suggest that “Oreoism” is definitely a manifestation of such a disorder, because in order for it to work it has to make jumps and leaps on one’s rational thinking processes-like your Black female relative who’s married to a White Man-in order to damn their own Race while at the same time refusing to see or recognize any of the good of teir race while on the other hand seeing only the good of the preferred race while at the same time, deliberately overlooking their bad points.

    Like I said before Dave Alex, you are sick. Not merely “eccentric”. And I would further speculate this is something you got from your parents and relatives, and which has greatly distorted your worldview.

    Btw, no one Black that I’m aware of, has referred to Poussaint as an “Oreo”.

    Lastly, while your definition of the Beta Penalty Brake System was quite creative, it has already been dealt with in the book The Game, by Neil “Style” Strauss. For those who’ve read the book, or have actually met/known him, one is hardpressed to come up w/a greater Beta. And he says in the book that he had to “kill” certan aspects of himself off if Game was going to work. Several years after the publication of his book, I think its fair to say, that he’s much better for it.

    You really should read that book, Dave, if for no other reason, so hat you can make up better excuses.

    Holla back

    O

    Like


  510. chic noir:

    You do notice how lil grl ^ has that picture posted of her hot boyfriend posted on her blog. I’m sure she has come across a few jealous females who hate but there are many women who will give her some dap for scoring such a hottie.

    c’mon. he loves her for her mind – her untamed wit. he’ll still be fervently in love when she’s gets saggy funbags and that mamasan butt.

    you’re such a pessimist

    Like


  511. We come to Game because we have encyclopedic knowledge of what *doesn’t* work, and need instruction in step-by-step change. I am a bit downhearted because it gave me results instead of nothing, and to hear those hear propound the limits of game grieves me.

    Like


  512. mu The problem I have w/”Oreos” is that in their zeal to divorce themselves from what they see as problematic Blackness, they throw out the baby w/the bath water-ALL they see in Blackness is bad. Yet, many of these very same “Oreos” can remain deliberately and willfully blind about the many foiables of Whites-like my noting your allowing for chubby White Women but not tolerating it one second from Black Women
    PREECH Mu Preech!

    So, I’m simply not seeing this “masculine” meme that so many, who have at best limited exposure to Black Women in any major way, talk about. Are there mannish looking Black Women around? Yup-just like there’s quite a few mannish looking White Women. Yet I don’t hear anyone making that big a deal of that. It makes me think there’s a bit more than meets the eye here-in your case, a desire to ingratiate yourself w/”Whiteness”, in the case of White detractors, a desire to vent their animus on a socially approved target

    Excellent observation MU. I don’t get the “masculine look” stuff either. From what I saw while in Sweden(and less so in the Netherlands) strong jaw, deep set eyes and high cheek bones are fairly common in Northern European women with the Viking look.

    Really I think it’s more about attacking blk women sense they are an easier target(vs blk men). It doesn’t help that we have sell outs like DA who will throw a blk woman under a truck and his self respect for a piece of chubby white tail.
    DA and maybe his mom from what he wrote earlier, seem to be suffering from a type of Stockholm syndrome that’s common in self hating blks.

    I date Asian men sometimes and have dated white men in the past but not for anything will I cheer any non blk man putting down blk men in my presence for the hell of it. I have a blk father and blk brothers who I love very much. They have been nothing but good to me so I refuse to jump on the hate blk men bandwagon.

    Like


  513. And ruins my spelling.

    Like


  514. Les jeux sont faits, rien ne va plus.

    Like


  515. chic noir crunched:

    The problem I have w/”Oreos” is that…

    1. They keep sneaking into your tummy…

    2. They’re not sold by the ton

    3. You see them everywhere

    Like


  516. @Arpagus

    Here is where you are not understanding my argument.

    Yes, women can get easy sex. You admit that, everyone does. But it has no value for women.

    Commitment is the prize. From my POV, men can score a commitment easier than a woman can.

    Commitment and stability is what powers healthy societies, it’s what women are programmed to want, but unfortunately, do not have the easiest time finding.

    Hence, they lack power that matters.

    Men have the upper hand in starting and fueling long lasting relationships and marriages.

    In regard to easy sex, that’s not something I think about, know about, or care about. It’s meaningless.

    Like


  517. Thus, you (guys) may be focused on sex, but for women, the game (the challenge) is the commitment.

    We are coming from 2 different perspectives here.

    Some women might not be looking for a commitment, but that’s a losing game – women cannot win at pump and dump (a term I despise…), as Obsidian said.

    Women play 1 game, men play the other.

    And for commitment, men have the power.

    Like


  518. eurosaba and to hear those hear propound the limits of game grieves me.

    SMH this is what I’m worried about. Don’t read the post of the “haters” if they are going to interfere with your goal. As you said, you are now getting some where before you got none. Don’t let anyone’s pessimism ruin that for you.

    Enjoy your two 5’s and let DA’s fingers become permanently disfigured from his self-induced carpal tunnel syndrome. Ignore the doomsday Armageddon poon wars Whiskey manifesto, his crap has even had me feeling loony and paranoid(more so) some days. Some people aren’t ready to be helped Euro 😦 Remember that old saying, misery loves company.

    Btw, where is doug1 ? 🙂

    Like


  519. firepower, you know I would rip you a new azzhole (although the one you have is pretty large) but I’m having fun right now so I don’t want to return to camp moderation. If you had your own blog, you and I could go at it like gladiators. Last week I wanted blood but you chumped down once you got a wiff of the mean PMS Chic.

    Like


  520. on June 21, 2009 at 8:40 pm Gunslingergregi

    “”””””””””””Dreamer
    Thus, you (guys) may be focused on sex, but for women, the game (the challenge) is the commitment.

    We are coming from 2 different perspectives here.

    Some women might not be looking for a commitment, but that’s a losing game – women cannot win at pump and dump (a term I despise…), as Obsidian said.

    Women play 1 game, men play the other.

    And for commitment, men have the power.”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””

    Dreamer is on fucking fire!!!!!

    Totally on point.

    Like


  521. on June 21, 2009 at 8:43 pm Gunslingergregi

    Chic I won the duel he he he

    But yea I saw one post of dougies that is it.

    Like


  522. PA is Eastern European and it gives him an advantage over other American guys and he knows it does. He just hasn’t admitted to much of an advantage. His being EE will open him up to women who aren’t willing to date the “typical” suburban White American male.

    Funny thing is, at first when I came to the States in my early teens I was very shy about my accent and being poor and different, and had some trouble with being picked on. I was initially reluctant to fight because I thought that this would get my family deported. This, of course, made things worse, as my apparent pacifism was mistaken for fear of fighting.

    Interestingly, it was the upper middle class preppy guys who ended up going to Service Acxademies and Ivy schools who were giving me a hard time. The prole metalhead guys were cool, and usually invited me to hang out with their clicques. (Metalheads = this was early 1980s)

    Maybe that’s why I have such strong working class populist sympathies today.

    Anyway, finally I got into two fights. One with “Bully Junior” whom I obliterated. He was smaller than me, but had a big mouth. Basically, we started swinging, got tangled up, and then he stated running from me and hollering for his buddies to help him. To many hearty laughs at his expense from the crowd that was watching us.

    This of course meant that I graduated to “Bully Senior,” who was a very agressive, very scary guy. We finally got into a fight at the bus stop after school. Everyone came to watch me get my Funny Accent Boy ass kicked. The fight took place, and it was pretty even. I had a bloody nose, he had a bloody lip.

    But he cried afterwards, and I didn’t. So much to my amazement, tne consensus was that I won. I was doing my paper route later, and adult redneck guys (I lived in a working class mostly white neighborhood) I didn’t even know hollered at me “Hey, PA, I heard you kicked [name’s] ass, way to go man!”

    And from then on, I had no problems with anyone. In fact, I became buddies with “Bully Junior.” Then I got on the wrestling team in school, did well at it, and the rest is history.

    Whoa! this lead-in turned out longer than I thought it would be, but the gist is that early on, I had a bit of an inferiority complex with being EE. But later on, I realized that it is somethign I can work to my advantage, with girls especially.

    Like


  523. Thanks, Chic.
    Although I lean Conservative, I refuse to abdicate my Blackness in order to be “cool” w/Whites-and don’t get it twisted, there ARE White folk who will, oh so subtlely, “demand” that you divorce yourself from anything and everything Black, in order to be “down” w/them-and even then, you aren’t good enough.

    Case in point? One JC Watts, former Congressman from Oklahoma. For years, Watts was the GOP’s gopher, NOT go-to guy, and he *still* couldn’t get a higher ranking seat in the Congress. He got passed over time and again. Finally, he resigned in disgust.

    Colin Powell couldn’t be a more faithful soldier, when he did his Adlai Stevenson routine at the UN, vial in hand and all-and what did he get for his loyalty? He got kicked to the curb.

    And now Michael Steele, the first Black head of the RNC, is taking shots from his own party members, at a time when they *desperately* need new blood! Are these folks crazy, or what?!?

    So, again-“Oreoism” is a DISEASE. There’s nothing wrong w/wanting better for yourself-so long as you don’t actually LOSE yourself in the process.

    O

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  524. In fact, I became buddies with “Bully Junior.”

    I meant “with Bully Senior.”

    Like


  525. chic noir gurgled:

    firepower, If you had your own blog, you and I could go at it like gladiators.

    nah. our magnificent host is quite superb. why create competition – never split superior forces.

    Like


  526. on June 21, 2009 at 9:02 pm Gunslingergregi

    lol pa I don’t think I could have become friends with anyone that cried after but yea normal fight sure.

    Like


  527. on June 21, 2009 at 9:04 pm Gunslingergregi

    I normally laughed during fights really creeped people the fuck out.

    Like


  528. on June 21, 2009 at 9:05 pm Gunslingergregi

    Right before a fight it is a happy moment ain’t it. Gonna be some trancendant shit about to go down.

    Like


  529. Blacks who use the term oreo are only insulting themselves.

    Like


  530. Obsidian diagnosed:

    So, again-”Oreoism” is a DISEASE.

    i bet chic is finally relieved.

    now she gets Social Security disability benefits like the rest of her friends and family

    mout ppl

    Like


  531. You’re a hardcore dude Gunner, I totally see you doing some crazy shit during a fight.

    Me after a fight: breathing rapidly, pale face, eyes almost bugging out with the adrenaline.

    Like


  532. obsidian:

    Colin Powell couldn’t be a more faithful soldier, when he did his Adlai Stevenson routine at the UN, vial in hand and all-and what did he get for his loyalty? He got kicked to the curb.

    And now Michael Steele, the first Black head of the RNC, is taking shots from his own party members, at a time when they *desperately* need new blood! Are these folks crazy, or what?!?

    these are bad examples, obsidian. colin powell could have been the GOP’s presidential candidate if he wanted it. he made the choice not to run for it. the GOP might possibly have been a different party today had he made a different decision. the GOP was ecstatic when he took the Sec of State job.

    michael steele initially did some incredibly stupid things when dealing with rush limbaugh. he got spanked (just like anyone of any race in that position). whether you like rush or not, he holds a lot of political power, and GOP politics dictates that you have to be a lot more tactful with him.

    that said, black people vote >90% democrat in presidential contests. certain issues like affirmative action are linchpin issues. for example, jesse jackson stated blacks would leave the democratic party when they were last discussing this issue in ernest and before clinton came up with his ‘mend it, don’t end it’ dogma. the GOP isn’t going to change on such a core issues and trying to appeal to blacks in other ways (like thomas sowell) hasn’t really worked as well as democrat politics. but, the lack of enthusiasm on the GOP to court blacks isn’t surprising.

    don’t misunderstand me. i am no great fan of the republicans. despite all the power they’ve held, they’ve never done anything on some key issues, like affirmative action, welfare, divorce laws… it’s almost like they’re afraid of losing the NAM vote or the single mom vote- oh wait…

    Like


  533. In fact, I became buddies with “Bully Junior

    unless you fought over a girl, fights between teens tend to be caused by the most frivolous things. which only makes it easier to befriend to other guy later.

    fights for girls in teen years generate lasting enmities. two years ago, in my graduation party, I invited 10 friends from college, inlcluding two who had done exactly that. they wouldn´t spoil my party, but the hatred was still there, plain for anyone to see, even after 7 years

    Like


  534. Dreamer —

    Commitment is the prize. From my POV, men can score a commitment easier than a woman can.

    That is the conventional wisdom, but it no longer holds true. I am quite willing to offer commitment and I do, yet it gets me nowhere. You have to be better than the competition as well as the women themselves for your commitment to be worth anything, due to female hypergamy, and that is very hard when women have so much equality. Lots of women are clearly happy to live without commitment, because they do so well for themselves and have fun with alphas — your calling it a losing game doesn’t matter — and I am not good enough for either group. I am not someone women would fuck just for fun and too poor and low-status for my commitment to be valuable.

    Obsidian —

    Point well taken. I am all for learning game, and that is why I am here. I agree game can be a corrective to some extent, though far from an equalizer.

    Like


  535. Dreamer, your comment wrt “Oreoism” is interesting to me. Please explain?

    Freak, the point is that the GOP needs new blood. Now they have a choice. They can just hunker down and become the de jure, instead of merely de facto, White Guy’s Party, or, they can go in another direction and reach out to the other groups that are ascendant in America. But they need clarity and focus, and Rush Limbaugh ain’t helping them do that. All he’s good for is boilerplate and getting White Guys mad-which wasn’t enough to sway the election the GOP’s way.

    If the GOP wants to reach out to Black folks they have to be willing to take on its explicit racial pandering aka the Southern Strategy of the 60s and 70s, and reinvigorated in the 80s by Reagan. Bottomline, a great deal of Black support for the Dems comes out of this, Freak.

    The GOP has to decide if fighting ideological fights, like Roe v Wade, Gay Marriage or Affirmative Action are really worth it, or, if fighting real bread and butter issues-and since we’re talking about Black folk here, that means the highschool dropout rate, the murder rate, the out of wedlock birth rate-is more important. The GOP has to decide if it wants to be the Disaffected White Guys’ Party, the Holy Rollers’ Party, etc, or if they really want to be effective where it counts.

    Now-its *possible* that the GOP can keep on winning elections they way they have since the 60s, mainly by racial pandering etc. But sooner or later, its gonna stop being effective, if for no other reason due to demographics.

    Instead of giving Steele a hard way to go for a guy who ain’t never put his butt on the line in an election, and I mean Limbaugh, they need to be listening to him, Steele I mean. Or, they can keep listening to Limabaugh and keep on being disaffected, angry White guys.

    Choice is theirs.

    O

    Like


  536. Mu One JC Watts, former Congressman from Oklahoma. For years, Watts was the GOP’s gopher

    He would of made a much better fit than Michael Steele. Why oh why did they choose Michael Steele. He is no match for Obama, can you imagine the two of them in a debate. Obama would eat Steele alive btw Steele is an example of an overcompensating beta. I think his handlers told Steele that he should be young hip and cool but they forgot that Michael is a 50 year old blk man, not a 20 something. It’s sort of like what they did to Randy on American Idol.

    What the RNC needs is someone who has the cool hipness in a reasonably attractive body like Obama and Clinton. For the last 10 years, Republicans have been doing the angry thing. Some like Glen Beck look down right foolish. What Republicans fail to realize is that in times of crises, people want someone with confidence that can lead effectively.
    Dreamer Dreamer
    Blacks who use the term oreo are only insulting themselves.

    Please explain.

    Like


  537. PA This, of course, made things worse, as my apparent pacifism was mistaken for fear of fighting. Yes it always does. People will respect someone who can stand up to a bully versus someone who runs from one. DA & euro pick your angles.

    Maybe that’s why I have such strong working class populist sympathies today.
    me too
    I was initially reluctant to fight because I thought that this would get my family deported. this is so sweet of you(forgive me whiskey). You said my family not I; you put others ahead of yourself. A good quality for a man to have.
    But he cried afterwards, and I didn’t
    SMH
    A male should never cry in public after losing a fist fight. That’s an instant downgrade. As a man, he must suck it up, cry when you are alone in your from. How did the women respond to him after he let those tears fall?

    and adult redneck guys (I lived in a working class mostly white neighborhood) I didn’t even know hollered at me “Hey, PA, I heard you kicked [name’s] ass, way to go man!”
    HEHE
    Let’s talk real talk PA. SWPLs who I think on the whole are pretty decent people, love to talk a good game about how physical violence is beyond wrong??? Yet these same people will brag about their children who graduate from the naval academy, watch violent sports and movies, and/ or play violent video games.

    Mental abuse of the Dr Phil variety, is somehow sweep under the rug but God forbid you slap the SOB who groped your preteen sister.
    Shooting a random person in Iraq= good. Punching your next door neighbor in the mouth who sleep with your wife in your bed= awful. Mental abuse is a far more lasting form of abuse on the psyche. Sometimes it takes years and making dollars spent on therapy to overcome.

    I think it’s perfectly human to wish a good old fashioned humiliating asswhiping on a bully.

    but the gist is that early on, I had a bit of an inferiority complex with being EE. But later on, I realized that it is somethign I can work to my advantage, with girls especially
    *kisses PA on the forhead*
    Well learned my son well learned.

    Like


  538. Mu If the GOP wants to reach out to Black folks they have to be willing to take on its explicit racial pandering aka the Southern Strategy of the 60s and 70s, and reinvigorated in the 80s by Reagan
    agreed, most nonblks would be surprised at how conservative blks(even poor hood dwellers) can be on some issues.

    Smh at poor whites and blks fighting one another for the spoils in this country. Both have a big reason to be upset with the way this country is going.

    Mu kicking more knowledge The GOP has to decide if it wants to be the Disaffected White Guys’ Party, the Holy Rollers’ Party, etc, or if they really want to be effective where it counts.

    Like


  539. Chic, let’s not forget that Steele came very close to becoming Maryland’s first Black Senator, regardless of Party. In that its a Dem stronghold Steele gets lots of credit for keeping the race very close as a GOP candidate.

    As for a debate btw him and Obama, I think Steele can hold his own. Obama isn’t that good of a debater at all, for example, Clinton (Bill) would make mincemeat outta him. Obama isn’t good on the fly, which is what a debate demands.

    O

    Like


  540. Obsidian —

    Steele agreed with DL Hughley that the GOP was like a Klan Rally, much like Colin Powell, Steele is a “race man” and puts racial loyalties (to Obama) over Party loyalty.

    It’s why White Male voters cannot vote for Black, or Hispanic candidates. Because they’ll get screwed over. Black and Hispanics office holders will always vote “race” to screw the White guy over party. This is true for all of them. That was a low risk when AA was confined to just Government jobs, but now that Government runs EVERYTHING, that risk spreads to EVERYTHING. So White Guys cannot vote for a Black/Hispanic guy. Risk too big. Shrug. There it is.

    Gallup has a new link, go to Elusive Wapiti’s blog, see his Friday round-up, Women ALWAYS vote Dem, except Married Women, and Women ages 18-80 are far more heavily Democratic and Liberal than Men. The GOP is the party of White Guys. Dems HATE White guys, in fact the whole Dem coalition is Women, Gays, Blacks, Hispanics, each relatively small themselves (except White Women) who are allied in making sure White Guys are excluded from opportunities and in basic spoils politics (taxing White guys to give money directly or indirectly to the Dem coalition). This is the fundamental organizing principle of all politics in the West.

    Blacks, Hispanics, and Gays will never vote Republican because Reps have White Men in the party as the base. And that coalition along with White Women HATE HATE HATE White Men. Shrug. There it is. You can’t have all the AA and other advantages for Blacks, Women, Gays, Hispanics without restricting them for White Men. It’s Ricci writ large.

    Like


  541. Whiskey you are making this ish up as you go. You thought Blacks would go about taunting and killing whites because Obama is president you saw that a few days after the election, it was business as usual.

    For the most part, African-Americans want to exist in this country and enjoy the fruits of their labor just like White Americans. I swear I don’t know where you come up with this wild paranoia. You live in Cali, go get a scrip from your doctor for some weads so you can calm the heck down.

    I’m almost ready to go on Christian singles and find a woman for you so your mind can take a break. A week in a hotel room with a well taught 25 year old with a mean set of grippers that allows her to shoot a cup of water 12 feet across the room will do you good.

    *tries to imagine whiskey’s o face*
    .

    Like


  542. Arpagus, Dreamer,
    Just thought I’d butt in here…

    In nature, the Male displays and the Female chooses. Plain and simple.

    In other words, Women decides who gets lucky.

    However, when it comes to deciding on longterm pairbonding, the Male chooses. If he doesn’t propose, you don’t get to become a wifey. Simple as that.

    Both parties have power in the sexual marketplace, ideally. The problem is, in our time, a number of events have happened that have tilted the balance of power in favor of Women, and I would go so as to say by artificial means. Here we have to refer to as he calls them “The Four Sirens”. Look them up if you haven’t heard of them already.

    What Game does, is act as one way to “correct” the market, by giving Males back some measure of control and power. Will it correct the market totally? No. But it *goes* act as a corrective to a certain, and some would argue, a large extent.

    Arpagus, I’ve read a good bit of your blog and I can understand your anger. My question is, why can’t you apply the same energy you’ve used in writing those lengthy articles on your site and take that time to learn Game, so you can get your balls drained? Being so backed up can only make a Man quite angry.

    I’m being serious btw. Not trying to clown you at all.

    Looking forward to a civil discussion.

    O

    Like


  543. What the RNC needs is someone who has the cool hipness in a reasonably attractive body like Obama and Clinton

    Obama is a dork. However, he is a puppet of the real powers that be, and they decided that he will be hip. So he is hip.

    If they decided that Palin is hip fresh new blood, she would be the most beloved figure of SWPL’s today.

    Very few politicians have the ability to bypass the media and speak right to the people. Reagan had that ability.

    Like


  544. on June 21, 2009 at 10:37 pm Virginia Gentleman

    Obsidian:

    I wouldn’t call him “loyal” or otherwise grant him some great honor for the U.N. speech. He wasn’t under any compulsion to make the effort; if he truly didn’t believe in it, he could have resigned honorably. That option is always open and I would submit that General Powell was well situated to depart from the Bush Administration than your average appointee.

    Regardless of whatever happened to the man in the Iraq aftermath, he’s politically dead to me. His eager, effusive and over-the-top endorsement of the former junior Senator from Illinois for the 2008 Presidential campaign was a thoroughly disloyal act. I could perhaps even forgive this trespass, if one is willing to posit that he might have in fact gotten a raw deal from the Bush Administration at the hands of Messrs. Cheney, Wolfowitz et al.

    However, he went further from there and openly attacked the party that essentially boosted him from a one-star generalcy in the U.S. Army all the way to the Office of the Secretary of State. The way I see it, that goes beyond settling a score.

    Like


  545. PA If they decided that Palin is hip fresh new blood, she would be the most beloved figure of SWPL’s today.
    no darling, palin is hip. She wasn’t ready to become President but she does have carisma,good looks, and good qualites.

    PA Obama is a dork.
    If a man can make women want to throw their panties at him when he walks into the room, he is not a geek.

    Don’t hate, congratulate.

    Like


  546. on June 21, 2009 at 10:53 pm Tupac Chopra

    LR:

    My point being you cannot be “disdainful” or “angry” at a gender for being BORN with an advantage that is handed at by nature. You might as well shake your fist at the sky for all that’s worth. We’re not to blame, we don’t have a choice in the matter either.

    If it was just a case of:

    men = variety

    women = monogamy

    …then things would be simple and fair.

    The mounting evidence for female *hypergamy* turns this whole notion on its head however.

    Plenty of women are willing to do without commitment if they can have the thrills of sportfucking alphas.

    After all, they make their own money nowadays. To say nothing of government largesse.

    The balance of the Force has been disrupted by the butcher’s thumb on the scale.

    Like


  547. Don’t hate, congratulate.

    I believe the phrase is “Kneel Before Zod, Son of Jor-El”.

    Yeah, I voted Obama. Now I want my high speed rail and regional & light rail networks.

    Like


  548. on June 21, 2009 at 11:00 pm Tupac Chopra

    chic:

    If a man can make women want to throw their panties at him when he walks into the room, he is not a geek.

    Don’t hate, congratulate.

    Put him in your mouth, then.

    Like


  549. Tupac Chopra aka too common Put him in your mouth, then.

    and you wonder why alias clio doesn’t want you.

    I will not do that without a weding ring. There are plenty of skanks who will let you have your fun with them so enjoy.

    tupac After all, they make their own money nowadays
    money = freedom.

    Like


  550. Actually Chic, it is NOT business as usual.

    See my blog for the Jawbone videos, pretty graphic. Or Eric Holder, who labeled White America a “nation of cowards” and “racists.” Or Al Sharpton, the most frequent White House Guest (that’s like GWB having David Duke as a frequent guest). Or the “apology” for Slavery which is the first step for reparations. [Something I find personally offensive, given that on my fathers side, an ancestor was the youngest volunteer for the First Indiana Regiment.] Besides one of the most personally corrupt administrations (Michelle Obama is up to her eyebrows in the firing of Walpin who was going to indict her buddy and kick-back partner Kevin Johnson, Mayor of Sacramento and big time crook), Obama has headed one of the most racist (and explicitly anti-White) administrations in memory. From “Wise Latina Woman” who is smarter than White guys Sotomayor for the Supreme Court, to Holder, to his pal Jeremiah Wright. [Pajamas Media contributor and historian Victor Davis Hanson reckons that Obama has increased racial distrust and hatred more than any other President since KKK admirer Wilson.]

    White guys get the short end of the stick on AA. That was tolerable in good times, when everyone was making money, and the cost of rocking the boat was greater than the lost opportunity. Now Obama is running the entire economy, including making hiring, firing, promotion, and work assignment decisions for pretty much all private companies. His economic guru Robert Reich explained to Rangel and Pelosi that White men MUST be excluded from any economic stimulus monies, as they nodded along. You can watch it on Youtube.

    I get it. Black or Hispanic officeholders are “race men” first and White guys get the short end of the stick. Even Steele is a Race Man, and will never criticize his pal Obama because racial loyalties over-ride everything else, as does the shared hatred/hostility to White Guys. As a practical matter, there’s only so much in the spoils pie and Leftist politics world-wide depends on excluding White Guys from that pie to slice it for everyone else.

    Like I said, sustainable in good times. Not now. Women make up the majority workforce because Men (almost all of them White) were 82% of layoffs. Something celebrated in the Media and among Women. But I repeat myself.

    There are your hard cites. Go watch Robert Reich and then explain to me why I should not just vote the Straight White Guy over Women, Blacks, Gays, Hispanics etc.

    Obama is the most uncomfortable in his own skin President since Nixon walked on the San Clemente Beach in a three piece suit and dress shoes. He’s full of racial rage against Whites which he conceals most of the time (read his books) and he is not an American, not culturally, having grown up a Muslim in Indonesia and Hawaii, he doesn’t even know how many States in the Union (he gets it confused with the number of OIC nations). But he’s Black, and poses like a Rockstar, and for Women particularly White Women, that’s enough. For Blacks and Hispanics, he’s not White and that’s enough.

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  551. Tupac says it best.

    Like


  552. White guys get the short end of the stick on AA.

    whiskey, AA is being opened to white men. Obama wants to fix it to imclude poor whites. A very good idea if you ask me.

    I wish you would be honest and admit you don’t like the man very much.

    Something celebrated in the Media and among Women. But I repeat myself.
    I haven’t heard a single woman celebrate this, if anything it’s making them rethink their views of the sexes.

    He’s full of racial rage against Whites which he conceals most of the time (read his books) and he is not an American
    I haven’t read Dreams Of My Father but I read the other book.

    From “Wise Latina Woman” who is smarter than White guys Sotomayor for the Supreme Court
    I could try to explain to you what I think she was trying to articulate with that statement but you won’t want to here it. Just like you believed Michelle was saying white men could kill Barack if he walked to the gas station.

    Like


  553. Chic —

    Look at AA. Blacks and Whites HAVE TO FIGHT, because there’s only a limited amount of Jobs. AA means that jobs get reserved for Blacks, Hispanics, etc. as in Ricci, and Whites lose out. There are only so many jobs. That’s why Jessie Helms “Hands Ad” was so powerful. White guys ALWAYS lose out on AA. White women win, of course.

    Now that Obama’s government makes all the calls for most of the economy, that fight is only going to accelerate. It’s going to get tougher, because the stakes are higher. Basically you are talking about firing White Guys and hiring Blacks or Hispanics in their place. For “Diversity.”

    Look at the Ricci case: the promotions for the New Haven Fire Dept. included a written test, as negotiated by the Union and City Council. The highest scorers were 19 White guys and one Puerto Rican (who was 19th). No Black was in the top scorers, rather in the bottom. So the City Council threw out the tests, and promoted Blacks and Hispanics over the White Guys.

    Magnify that to EVERY promotion and hiring decision, across the economy, during hard times.

    Like


  554. on June 21, 2009 at 11:24 pm Willard Libby

    whiskey – Blacks, Hispanics, and Gays will never vote Republican because Reps have White Men in the party as the base. And that coalition along with White Women HATE HATE HATE White Men. Shrug.

    whiskey, I really think you are mentally ill. I’ve read your site and it’s interesting if paranoid and somewhat unrealistic.

    And why are you always “shrug” ing on here? That’s just another expression of your “woe is me poor little White man routine.” You’re the White David Alexander.

    White women are not obsessed with black males, you are.

    Most attractive White women see White men as their most desired partner for sex and a relationship. Just because that White man isn’t you is no reason to go off into a psychotic racial fantasy land.

    The Democratic party doesn’t hate all White men or even most beta White men.

    The problem is the combination of your paranoia, Asperger’s syndrome and your lack of critical thinking skills.

    You only look for evidence and examples to CONFIRM your fears and insecurities and dogmas.

    Try being more rational and scientific. Look for countering examples and more comprehensive arguments.

    whiskey you, like David Alexander, search the world around you for any evidence and examples that will reinforce your paranoid and paralyzed view of the world.

    That’s not healthy and simply put – you are WRONG.

    Like


  555. Blacks and Whites HAVE TO FIGHT, because there’s only a limited amount of Jobs.

    As one herb to a dork, I’d like to know your magical solution to the problem, and as a constraint, you must avoid alienating both the black and white community.

    Like


  556. chiclet:
    whiskey, AA is being opened to white men.

    since AA is essentially AA for everyone but white males, opening it up to white men would have the effect of making it irrelevant.

    Obama wants to fix it to imclude poor whites. A very good idea if you ask me.

    i’m sure obama could announce a plan to exterminate the elderly and you would find a way to rationalize it as a good idea.

    I wish you would be honest and admit you don’t like the man very much.

    i wish you would be honest and admit you are a bigoted racialist who automatically defers to the black is always right position no matter the facts before you.

    Like


  557. on June 21, 2009 at 11:36 pm Willard Libby

    roissy – whiskey is right that white women support AA at a far greater rate than do white men. now whether this is because white women are sexually obsessed with black men and hate beta white men, or that it is indicative of a general trend among women to support retributive nanny state policies, is open to argument.

    AA as it developed applied to black FEMALES no less than black males. It has also been used in relation to White women and the handicapped.

    I think White women’s disproportionate support for it is obviously related to their little White girl “let’s be fair and not be mean” view of human relations.

    It’s not because all the White women want to have sex with Kunta Kinte and want guys like whiskey put on an island near Antarctica.

    Like


  558. on June 21, 2009 at 11:36 pm Tupac Chopra

    Worthless Waste of Existence:


    As one herb to a dork, I’d like to know your magical solution to the problem, and as a constraint, you must avoid alienating both the black and white community.

    Like


  559. on June 21, 2009 at 11:44 pm Tupac Chopra

    chic:

    money = freedom

    …from betas.

    Although…I’m sure they come in handy as your personal vibrators.

    Like


  560. Worthless Waste of Existence

    I’m worthless, why are you replying to my comments like a little beta herb?

    Like


  561. on June 22, 2009 at 12:04 am Tupac Chopra

    I’m worthless, why are you replying to my comments like a little beta herb?

    I used to pull the wings off of flies when I was young.

    Old habits die hard.

    Like


  562. @ Chic noir and Obsidian

    (I don’t want to veer off into race, Roissy (and readers) my apologies! But to answer the question…)

    Blacks who use the term oreo are often insulting themselves…

    It’s based on how I’ve heard it being used among young people. I understand that there are many different ways it can be used, but how I’ve heard it amounts to self-hatred.

    Black people use the term to insult other blacks. They say that someone who speaks in an educated manner, enjoys reading, pursues education as a value and a life purpose, and excels academically as being an “oreo” or “acting white.”

    Thus – does a person who wants to “act black” have to – speak ignorantly/lack proper english, despise reading, despise education, and fail academically (or appear mediocre)?

    Why can’t these educationally high standards be a black thing, too? When they use this term, they’re saying black people are simply ignorant and it’s somehow unnatural for them to aspire educationally/academically.

    Why is “talking white” speaking educated? Why can’t speaking properly be associated with blackness, too? Black people pigeonhole themselves with the term “oreo.” Blacks are a varied people and should not castigate one another for different behaviors…

    Anyway, someone who goes out of their way to avoid their own race, that’s another story. Psychological issues. But that’s not, in my opinion, being an oreo. There are people who hate their race and want to get out of it, and there’s more to that than a “wankster” (on the white side) or an “oreo” (on the black side).

    But the terms “oreo” and “acting white” are self-hating. They say only positive attributes regarding knowledge and excellence are inherently “white,” ignoring the fact that any one can succeed, regardless of race or background, in this nation. And again, black people are varied individuals. No more labels!

    Like


  563. wilard:
    White women are not obsessed with black males, you are.

    whiskey is right that white women support AA at a far greater rate than do white men. now whether this is because white women are sexually obsessed with black men and hate beta white men, or that it is indicative of a general trend among women to support retributive nanny state policies, is open to argument.

    Like


  564. Colin Powell couldn’t be a more faithful soldier, when he did his Adlai Stevenson routine at the UN, vial in hand and all-and what did he get for his loyalty? He got kicked to the curb.

    Nonsense. Condi Rice was in the good books of Bush and Cheney till the end. Powell got booted because he was a softie on Iraq.

    White Democrats are far more racist than white Republicans. Always have been.

    Like


  565. one more idea, on the subthread above about the number of sexual partners of Poetry of Flesh. Whether that number is true or untrue doesn’t really matter. But it got me thinking of the *reasons* why some women take excessive numbers of sexual partners, now that there is near-zero social stigma in doing so.

    1) alpha female – whether dominant or submissive, these are the chicks who are proud of their sexuality and voracity, for its own sake. archetype: madonna. basically like men, LTR a secondary preference to catting around.

    2) users. girls who use their sex appeal (and sex) to manipulate men into getting what they want to get ahead. prototype- matahari, when serving some cause – most common subvariant: female executive (or hollywood starlet) sleeping their way to the top.

    3) damaged goods. these are girls with low self-esteem and use the “carousel of cock” to fill emotional holes created by their personalities or upbringings. sample: lurker’s opera date from last week – who has evidently been struggling with weight/low-self-esteem her whole life. and became a college slut.

    4) working girls, strippers, etc. – a combination of 2 and 3, but with less choice and social room to maneuver.

    any thoughts on this? what aspects of female psychology do these categories reveal, if any, and if they are valid? what makes a woman go down any of these roads if there are other choices available? off-point a little from the main post, but not from that subthread.

    also note that 1 and 3 will obviously go for alphas, but that 2 and 4 will subordinate their sexuality to the goal of materially getting ahead. incluiding lying to and manipulating betas – and sleeping with them.

    Like


  566. on June 22, 2009 at 2:11 am Willard Libby

    maurice – one more idea, on the subthread above about the number of sexual partners of Poetry of Flesh.

    Don’t be naive. Poetry of Flesh is a male homosexual fronting as a slutty heterosexual woman on the internet.

    Like


  567. @maurice

    I find it interesting what you’ve written about the motivations of woman who have a large number of partners. Are there any categories for men who have large numbers? Is it as simple as men are alphas if they have large numbers or more complex? Thoughts?

    Like


  568. @Willard- as noted, that doesn’t matter, but I looked at her blog and I doubt it.

    @aoefe – well, go back to the asymmetries between male and female sexual behavior that are discussed at length here. men, left to their hindbrains, would fuck as many women as they could get away with. (social programming, context, etc. may create social/internal barriers.) and as women only make themselves available to dominant Alpha males, they get the notches. I’d think those are the categories – Alphas get lots if they seek them out, betas get a few if they’re lucky.

    However, as MA and others have noted, and I agree – Alpha and Beta are tossed around here as immutable black and white categories, when it’s really shades of grey. I came up with the four categories of loose women above, more or less on the spot as I was thinking about the post. they could be valuable, or not so much. how would you break down the various categories of Alpha Male? Maybe from Greene’s “Art of Seduction” (rake, dandy, badboy, etc.)? those are just variations on the theme.

    also – you didn’t answer the question – your female perspective would be much more valuable than my male educated guesses. 🙂

    Like


  569. @maurice

    I like the shades of grey, nothing is ever black and white. That is not an invite for other posters to enter into race discussion…lol.

    Female perspective huh.

    1. Men who have attachment issues and seek something but they know not what.

    2. Men who are naturally competitive and want to outdo either men they know or men they read about.

    3. Men who are desperatly seeking Susan and will go through any number of women to find her (okay I just made that one up)

    4. Men who are soooo hot they are doing women a favour by having sex with them (men’s favorite answer??)

    Like


  570. OK, those are good categories. #1 is kind of like my #3 – compulsive sex as a salve for emotional damage. 4 might be like the alpha naturals, who always attracted women without really trying and just coast. 2 rings true, and 3 too, but that’s not necessarily an excessive-sex-partner category – a guy could be looking for ms. right without mowing down multitudes. but it might be.

    sunday night insomnia … sigh …

    Like


  571. i read/skimmed much of the above with interest. Let me try to fuse the AO opener with the extended treatises about the status/prowess/appeal of balck males … in the form of the PUA school of Marvin Gaye:

    “There’s… nothin’ wrong.. with me … lovin’ you…

    And … givin’ yourself to me … can never be wrong …

    if the love is true…”

    🙂

    how many chicks would have gone home with *that* dude?

    coupla other things:

    @hollywood, dreamer: that ciaran dude did seem a little bipolar to me – even in the AO post that he cited, it seemed like a manic high. So his disenchantment from game might be the flip side of that, of his personality. There was also a certain amount of drama-queening in both posts, which is a little suspicious (veracity, not sexuality). If Game is the end-all and be-all of your existence, then you are indeed hollow and pathetic – that should go without saying. But not too many people here think that, I’d guess.

    @dreamer – interesting and valid point about men being the gatekeepers of LTRs, the complement of women being the gatekeepers of sex. Women are focused on the ring, men on the pussy. fair enough. let’s drill down a bit, and look at it across the bell curve spectrum of available men and women. Tupac’s link-pic showed it quite well in visual terms. Women are not really attracted to beta chumps — even when they needed their material support, they weren’t. They are hypergamous – defined, means women are only attracted to men more powerful/richer than them or higher than them socially. Alphas. Do you agree? Having shown up here regularly, you’ve probably seen that argument in 4-5 different ways by now.

    So even though men control the ring – what if women don’t want LTR’s with most men, because most men are their social equals or inferiors? whether in income, education, class, taste, sophistication, etc. – all the things that matter mroe when women are more empowered than ever before in history. It’s not that they dislike these guys, it’s that they’re not attracted and even repulsed sexually. And would never consider marrying them. I’m not as extreme or bitter or pessimistic about this as whiskey, but it’s a real phenomenon. (think of that pathetic dude who proposed to his 3-mo. gf on that Ricki Lake style show and got blown out.) this is the dark side of femimism and female empowerment, the damage it has caused to women and men both.

    In this case, women revert to the cad part of their cad/dad biological-sexual programming, because they are the providers themselves, or the State is in the form of welfare checks, AA, etc. Cats proivde the domestic affection.

    The Alpha guys win, most women win, beta guys lose big time, … and society loses. The next generation loses.

    What are your thoughts on that?

    @whiskey- even though I just reiterated one of your pet themes, and I’m a fan, I think the criticisms of your argument style are valid. It’s not so much that you make stuff up – though you sometimes do, stating opinion as fact – but that you selectively cite facts that favor your opinions. Your arguments would be much stronger in each case if you stress-tested them against contradictory information.

    Like


  572. Re aoefe’s categories: too many. Men who have a large number of partners do it because they can, i.e. because they are alpha. That is the only reason needed and other men have no choice in the matter. You seem to be forgetting that it is women who choose.

    Like


  573. Dreamer,
    I’ve addressed the “Oreoism” piece in some detail earlier in the thread, in my response to Dave Alex’s comments. Please scroll back to the Jun 21, 2009 series of posts, and you’ll find it. It speaks I think very clearly to your concerns.

    Thanks.

    O

    Like


  574. on June 22, 2009 at 4:03 am Willard Libby

    </Arpagus – Re aoefe’s categories: too many. Men who have a large number of partners do it because they can, i.e. because they are alpha.

    Not really. It’s also in most cases because these men are not discriminating based on quality. Plenty of low rent guys have sex with lots of women. The women aren’t that great.

    Plenty of Alphas have had sex with only a few women.

    That is the only reason needed and other men have no choice in the matter.

    Men reject women all the time and plenty of women have the same complaints that crybaby men have. Plenty of women, attractive and less attractive, have trouble finding appealing men to show interest in them. Especially sustained, respectful, romantic interest.

    These men either don’t find them attractive or give up before making any effort.

    You seem to be forgetting that it is women who choose.

    Every beta boy’s cry. Men choose to reject women all the time. They simply ignore them, don’t approach them or show lack of interest or even contempt when women choose to show interest in them.

    There are lots of lonely or disappointed women out there, probably more than men because women place greater value on average in a quality relationship.

    If women had all the power and did all the choosing this situation wouldn’t exist.

    Like


  575. Willard,
    I am still waiting for you to please cite the sources for your info on lynchings? I’d like to check it against other sources I’m aware of. Thanks.

    O

    Like


  576. on June 22, 2009 at 4:25 am Epoxytocin No. 87

    aoefe

    Are there any categories for men who have large numbers?

    The first category:

    1. Men who can.

    That’s also the last category.

    Of men I’ve known who fit into this category, the only ones I’ve known without “large numbers” have been very, very religious.

    Like


  577. Dave Alex brings up a good point, and I don’t think simple namecalling and other forms of Ad Hom will meaningfully address it: how do we give both groups, namely White Males and Minorities, what they want, w/o stepping on the toes of either?

    Personally, I think Affirmative Action was never explicitly debated, in the Halls of Congress, on the floor of the Senate. *That* is the proper forum for the debate, not the courts or by way of Executive Order.

    It would give everyone a chance to have their say-let the HBD crowd come forward with their contentions that, because African Americans simply do not have the intellectual acumen that Whites and Asians do on average, they should not be considered seriously for high post positions (of course, testing and the like would be allowed to be done to confirm this).

    This would then raise another question, to the public: what then are we to do w/our African American citizens? If they, per the HBD crowd, are simply not capable of high office, etc, et al, then what? Should a National Janitorial Corps be created, just for them? Or what? The HBD crowd would then have its opportunity to propose meaningful “The Day After” solutions on the table, argued by their representatives in the House and Senate.

    Other voices in the debate can be heard as well. For example, Jesse Jackson Jr is a US Congressman, surely he must speak at least to some extent, his father’s views; perhaps w/the help of the Congressional Black Caucus, an alternative point can be raised wrt Affirmative Action-that those who oopose it do so on the basis of “merit”. Yet, history, including American, clearly shows that all too often, “merit” isn’t the first thing considered, if considered at all, and rather other concerns were prominent-such as nepotism, nativism, and out and out racialism, if not racism. The CBC could bring up what exactly what the upper social, academic and economic reaches of our country could look like, should we employ a raw, pure “meritocracy”-that it would be dominated by Jews, Asians (from both China, Korea and Japan, as well as India and Pakistan), a significantly dwindling number of non-Jewish Whites and at best a token number of Blacks. Put aside the Black Question for a moment, and ask this-are the tens of millions of non-Jewish White parents, really cool w/all them Asians and Jews, taking *their* kid’s rightful place at the country’s most prestigious universities and jobs? I mean, come on-HBD would suggest strongly, “No”, *even* in the face of pure meritocratic norms-the Asians and Jews couldn’t be denied, because they got the best scores. But of course, they don’t reflect the stock of the founding members of this society…and that could prove problematic…

    And then perhaps another faction represented by the House and Senate, could broach the very difficult question of perhaps the single biggest block ever to have meaningfully benefitted from Affirmative Action, White Women. This block could raise questions, such as whether it is wise to continue such things as Title IX and so on, and could cite one of the laws of Norway, where all businesses there must have, by law, 40% of its board members female, or risk being put out of business by the Norwegian government. This block could raise the question on the floor-are we as Americans, cool with enforcing Affirmative Action to that degree?

    These are just a few of the many, many hard and difficult questions that Affirmative Actions raises, and promises to be a passionate debate. Compromises would have to be made in order for it to work to any decent degree, etc. But the point is, that said compromises, indeed the debate itself, would take place where it truly belongs, on the House and Senate floors. Not in the Oval Office, or in the Courts.

    Let the People decide the fate of Affirmative Action. Its not as simple as many would like to make it.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  578. on June 22, 2009 at 4:42 am Epoxytocin No. 87

    how do we give both groups, namely White Males and Minorities, what they want, w/o stepping on the toes of either?

    Your use of “want” rather than “need” here is bothersome, to say the least. What these groups want simply shouldn’t matter. At all.

    One point on which I hope you agree with me, Obsidian, is that affirmative action for women – in any form, at any time, and in any place – needs to be ended. Yesterday. It’s one of the dumbest ideas ever brought to fruition.

    In fact, given women’s penchant for hypergamy (and dissatisfaction with “equal partnerships”), if one sex should be getting AA boosts, that sex should be men.

    Like


  579. Epoxytocin,
    You bring up yet another excellent point that could be raised in a Congressional debate-the unintended consequences of making Men and Women equal, artificially, by way of Affirmative Action. Someone in the Congress representing your view, could make the case that the policy has had the realworld effect of dismantling families and impacting on family formation, because Women, being prone to human nature just like anyone else, no longer see a need to marry for older “security” reasons. Moreover, a powerful question could be raised-what are we to do w/millions of lower-tiered, single Males? The case could be made that Marriage served a real function for these Men, and historical preceedant could be brought into the discussion.

    Do you see what I mean here, E? As it stands right now, AA remains a political football, bandied about by special interest groups on both sides of the debate. Taking it out of their hands and into the People’s, by way of full throated debate, is the only real way to ever meaningfully resolving this issue.

    O

    Like


  580. on June 22, 2009 at 5:26 am Epoxytocin No. 87

    You bring up yet another excellent point that could be raised in a Congressional debate

    Yes. But.
    This “could” is purely theoretical right now, of course, with the solid Democratic majority in both houses.

    You also seem to think that pointing to these results would have any impact on hardcore AA proponents, which is laughable.
    You’re underestimating the power of the standard-issue PC beliefs about which groups are “disadvantaged” and/or “underrepresented”, in the face of mountains of evidence indicating otherwise. For instance, women are still routinely given preference in post-secondary school admissions, even though women now make up a majority of enrollees in those schools in all but the most technical fields.
    Therefore, we can see that the proponents of AA are not at all concerned with the results of AA. Not at all. They are only concerned with its giving a leg up to non-White/Asian-male groups.

    There wouldn’t be a “debate” at all. Instead, you’d be countered with bullshit arguments about “the historical oppression of women”, “the legacy of slavery and the resultant need for reparations”, and so on.

    No offense buddy – your comments are incredibly trenchant and incisive most of the time – but, since you are both Black and smooth, you almost certainly have NO IDEA how BAD it’s gotten for your fairer-skinned, smooth-as-sandpaper brothers-from-other-mothers.

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  581. Epoxytocin,
    Clearly, hot button issues such as Affirmative Action, Abortion and so on, cannot be dealt with in the courts; they *must* be settled by the People, either way. On that front, we have seen attempts to do just that at the State level, but even these are halting, disjointed, and most importantly, they don’t allow for the ful range of debate and voices from all sides.

    Simple math, as you pointed out, shows the “endgame” of Affirmative Action insofar as White Women are concerned, and again as you alluded to, this will have dysgenic effects on the mating landscape, auguring for major social problems. These simply cannot be ignored, and the more special interest groups on either sides try to do so, the more it creates tension for all sides, as well as making room for extremists to come to the fore.

    This has been the case w/Abortion, again, on both sides of the debate, but clearly the abortion clinic shootings coming from the Right. I have always said, that banning of abortion will *never* happen in the USA, for the simple reason that Women, Left and Right, still want to have the right to choose it. Though I’m Pro Life, I recognize this reality.

    So, the practical, pragmatic course, is to push for *reasonable* restrictions on abortion, such as husband notification (this doesn’t apply to unmarrieds), parental notification/signoff from minor aged girls, and, most importantly, fully recognizing the reproductive rights of the other half of the nation-its time to give Men the right to choose, too.

    The problem E, isn’t that special interest groups abound; the problem is that we as a society have grown averse to the very nature of Democracy itself, which is often a dirty, loud and raucous process. These are nitty grtty issues, and need full throated debate in the Congress.

    And they will. Its only a matter of time.

    O

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  582. Dreamer asked:

    but does that give me “true” power? I’m interested in knowing your opinion on that.

    If you can keep men hanging around on the vague promise of granting them an audience. If you can treat them like shit by not answering or returning their calls, and they put up with that, then you do have power. It may not be the “true” power you want, but it is power.

    Like


  583. I approve of this and I don’t think you had an out and out fail. She said “I’m flattered..” which was probably the truest words she uttered in the entire exchange.

    But, I don’t like where you said “maybe compared to the average guy.” Right there you let her steer the conversation away from something other than the task at hand. Maybe a better response would have been “Wouldn’t it be fun?” or something like that.

    Like


  584. @Default User
    I cringe at your assessment of things! 😦
    Please do consider that some people just have a personality where they cannot directly turn someone down. “Shit” treatment is not the aim, nor is having someone “hanging around.” I always hope for friendship, and that is the result.
    Rejecting and disappointing anyone is not my cup of tea. Sometimes, like every other woman, I do not clearly know what I want. Now there’s a strong argument for Game- cuts through the feminine confusion.

    Like


  585. on June 22, 2009 at 11:01 am Gunslingergregi

    Has anyone tried this yet besides el guapos infamous 1 out of 7 score.

    Shit I got 10 out of 11 in 22 days but now I am back to living vicariously through this blog.

    Anyone else step up to the plate?

    Like


  586. its funny how even after using boldness in my own game and seeing it work , i still fear implementing it permanently

    i’ve used something quasi-similar to the AO once , and it indeed worked . at a houseparty last summer where the ratio of guys to girls was damn near 5:1 there was only one girl in the party i found attractive . after playing against her in a game of beer pong i had sent a few negs her way and teased somewhat , but still hadnt caught the girls i was interested in’s name . during the game my teammate informed me that he wanted to hook up with my targets friend , and i used this information to my advantage . after the game finished as im walking past my target to get another handful of beers i say to her :

    me : ive got something to tell you , but you gotta keep it between u and me
    her : haha and what is that ?
    me (leaning in to whisper in her ear) my boy wants to get with ur friend over here
    her : haha is that so …
    me (cutting her off mid sentence) and i wanna get with you (look over my shoulder briefly and smile as i continue walking to where the beers are)

    she was standing there with her mouth open , jaw dropped . then a smile came on her face . later that nite she came up to me :

    her : i dont believe what you told me earlier
    me : (laughing) oh ? about what ? (probing her to make what she meant clearer)
    her : about you wanting to get with me
    me : (looking dead into her eyes) well why dont you go ahead and find out

    make out session ensued

    There were two major points in that night in which I was bolder than I normally am , and at both points when the initial lines and ideas of how to talk to the girl came to mind I simply went for it , rather than suppressing them out of fear as I normally do . I – along with men in general – NEED to be more bold and confident in our game . period .

    Like


  587. on June 22, 2009 at 11:12 am Gunslingergregi

    nice job.

    Like


  588. PA, [email protected]
    “Willard, AO can work, if it’s a here-and-now proposition.”

    I second this. I did something similar once, on a lark.

    I wasn’t even half serious and had no real intent to take her home. I just felt like being a silly asshole while hanging out with some friends. It “worked” in that the girl was up for it. And I wasn’t even intending it to work, I really just wanted to see how she would react, with my buddies watching the whole interaction.

    Now I did get eye contact with her first, and I suspect that if she didn’t find me attractive to begin with I would have been blown out of the water. But the one and only time I decided to let something along these lines spill out of my mouth the girl was actually game for it. Which tells me it must work, sometimes, for others. Now we could be dealing with statistically exceptional cases.

    I have a feeling that if I went all around town doing this multiple times, as an experiment, it would work poorly, I’d get a few drinks thrown my way, and have a lot of funny stories.. Given the fact that it worked once, on a complete lark, with one girl, who probably just happened to be in the mood, I suspect it might work on a few rare girls now and then.

    PA, [email protected]
    On white girls, exceptional vs. generic black guys, etc.

    I think a lot must do with local culture dynamics. In some areas where there’s more tolerance for interracial dating, rules may differ. Locally, in the Midwest, there is a substantial population of white girls who date black guys who I think I actually outclass. Many of these women are middle to upper middle class. I see career girls in BMWs driving their thug boyfriends around, and I know these guys aren’t the cream of anyone’s crop.

    In other areas of the country, white women dating black guys would be the exception to the rule. Something else, locally white women do not touch Latino men, period. They find them creepy, and scorn them. In DC, I noticed, White women tend to go for Latino men in droves.

    So local dating culture matters.
    My local experience, both White and Latina girls tend to be more interested in dating me, than Black girls. The number one reaction I get from most local black girls is that they are convinced that I’m gay. Period. Nothing alters their opinion.

    Perhaps if I still lived on the east coast, things would be a bit different. I used to get more attention from Black women in the DC/Baltimore area, and in the deep South. But locally, no. Most of the black girls I run into want a “baller with swag”, and I don’t have enough “swag” for them.

    About once a year though I run into that one black girl who ends up being the exception to the rule, in general she’s a girl from the Street. In my social circles, “boughi” middle class black girls tend to ignore me (their loss) while their white girl friends really dig me.

    The only black girls who from time to time wind up interested in me are really kind of hood-rat gals. Or mixed race girls. At least they appreciate my sterling qualities, right?

    In general, I don’t think I’m all that exceptional, it is far easier for me to date white women. Why? They actually approach me, give me a good deal of eye contact, and once in a while actually chase me.

    As for masculinity, I don’t project myself as domineering, I’m not an asshole, not always anyway. I am a bit bookish. The main thing they always say, as for their attraction, is that I have very captivating eyes.

    A few distinct types of White girls seem to be really into me, based on my past dating experiences.

    – Lesbians. Why, I do not know, but the attractive non-lipstick lesbian, butch girls tend to be struck like deers in headlights by my eyes. When I actually rarely make a move on them they get giggly, start doing this kitten like rubbing up against me thing, and sometimes discreet encounters that don’t socially alter their lesbian-cred can occur. Formerly exclusively lesbians who now claim to be bi-sexual also seem to dig me. Why, I do not know. Once I get past the butch haircut, a few really are kind of hot. I hate gender politics conversations so I avoid them, but I might find myself schmoozing my way into lesbian gals a bit more often.

    – Working class girls who usually do not date black men, and at times in fact actually avoid them. They usually at some point of time say something like “I like you, you are different.”

    They are sometimes a bit Punky or alternative, and solidly working class or lower class. They are sometimes into Rockabilly, and tattoo scenes. At other times into Industrial music, piercing type scenes.
    Sometimes they are just normal non-scenester 9-5 working at the factory type girls. Just normal country listening to all American gals.

    – Sensitive, educated liberal girls. Usually middle, or upper middle class. The quiet librarian coffeeshop types with master degrees or doctorates. They claim to be drawn to my intense eyes and conversation.

    – Artistic eco-feme vegan white girls, university educated, listen to Ani Defranco, Portishead, and chic-rock. Often have a lot of cats. I have no idea why they like me. I have a sneaking suspicion many are former lesbians or bisexual, so see no. 1 at the top.

    – Career girls, managerial types. The kind who like to indulge in sarcastic banter, are forward and aggressive, thin angular attractive but really somewhat abrasive “I tell it like it is” types.

    Now, the extroverted white all American sorority girl types do not seem to go for me, at least not until they hit their late 30s. But the younger ones seem generally repulsed or indifferent to me, at best.
    The kind of local working class white girls who exclusively focus on date black men usually don’t go for me at all. They tend to flock around the 50-cent clones. I don’t have enough “swag” for them either. Could I care? No. But it does amuse me.

    There is a final group but they don’t count – because I try to avoid interacting with them like the plague. I have gotten excessive attention from attractive but married white women. A few in their late 20s, but stretching all the way up to the early 40s.
    This freaks me out, when I was younger, they would do cute things around me like stroke my back, lean close and press their breasts against me under some pretext, give me disturbingly long lingering stares. They would drop hints, or at times blatantly blurt out their attraction for me.

    When I was in my late 20s this alarmed me, flattered me, but really freaked me out. In fact, it still disturbs me. I stay away from married women who approach me in social situations because frankly messing around with married women is against my fundamental moral code. Also, it could be personally or professionally dangerous.

    Interesting blog I saw someone link to in a previous thread – I just started reading assanova’s blog for the first time. The guy is actually located about an hour drive away from me, so he’s in the same cultural zone. His experiences, as far as the type of women he naturally attracts, from what I’m reading, seem similar to mine, but on a more massively prolific scale. Frankly, the guy he seems to naturally be a lot better with girls than I am. He floats in party scenes and has massive social proof, and he is also 7 inches taller than I am, and things get a bit skewed for tall guys. Oddly enough he’s almost a dead ringer for one of my kid brothers. Weird.

    Like


  589. Dreamer

    I cringe at your assessment of things! 😦
    Please do consider that some people just have a personality where they cannot directly turn someone down.

    I can think of nothing worse than a woman who considers me an in-case-of-emergency fall back. It is a complete insult and shows a total lack of respect. If you “don’t know” then go on a second date and make up your mind. However, I tend to think, “don’t know” means “no.”

    By keeping them as second-string, in-case-of-emergency-break-glass you are rejecting them. You have already decided they are not worth your best effort. You have already decided they are not the best available. You are not saving anyone any pain; you are just drawing it out.

    “No” is a very hard word to hear and can be a very hard word to say. Learning to use it and hear it can save everyone a lot of pain.

    I have been rejected in countless ways from nice to nasty. It hurts for a bit, but that is it. That is life. Life goes on. What really pisses me off is the woman who will not return my phone calls. That is rejection with out the certainty. It shows a lack of respect, in fact it shows contempt. It says I am not even worth of 30 seconds of “I am sorry but.”

    I understand that giving rejection can feel as bad as receiving it but that is that you need to do. You do not need to do it face to face (at the end of date one). You do not even need to do it by phone. If you really cannot manage the more direct approach you can send a nice e-mail.

    I have little sympathy for the dumb slobs that put up with such treatment but I have even less for a woman that doles out such treatment.

    I always hope for friendship.

    If a man was sexually interested in you there is no such thing as friendship. He does not lose sexual attraction just because you do. He does not become your sexless friend; he is still a man that would like to have sex with you. Until you have sex with him, you are rejecting him because that is his goal.

    Like


  590. Kamal,
    Thanks for the breakdown, never really thought to do one myself like that, lol. Although I can definitely say, that I do NOT attract lesbos. Uh uh.

    I have had a few openly bi ladies in the past, though. Was never really a big deal to me as I had always suspected that most Women could go either way, depending on the situation.

    As for the kinds of Women I attract, I seem to “pull” Women who tend toward the more submissive side, usually highly educated, near or top of the class types, that sort of thing. I never had a list of “must have’s” per se in this regard, its just kinda how it worked out, though as I became more aware of things and life, I became a bit more deliberate.

    As for dating interracially, I guess my “exceptional” vibe kinda gives me chances that wouldn’t normally be the case otherwise. I’ve gotten “you’re different” lines before too, which quite frankly flatter and un-nerve me at the same time, kinda like listening to an Oscar Brown song, you know what I mean?

    As for Assanova, I’ve read his blog, and while I certainly don’t knock his hustle, his style aint mine. But I most definitely wish him all the best and its good to see some Brothas out there blogging on aspects of Game.
    Finally, a word from one of my all time heroes, the wise Jedi Master Yoda:

    Size, matters not. Look at me! Judge me by my size, do you? And well you should not. For the Force is my Ally; and a powerful ally it is.

    😉

    The Obsidian

    Like


  591. And now, I think its a good time to give my own views on this “Apocalypse Opener”. I wanted to give everyone else the chance to speak on it first.

    Because that which is brought forward in the Game is usually field tested to at least some extent, I’m going to say outright that I thin it works. However, that said, I don’t endorse its use.

    Why? Quite a few reasons.

    First, from a very practical and security-minded standpoint, fellas, you gotta protect yourself. We all know that we live in the New Girl Order-what they say, goes, and you are guilty until proven innocent. You’re up in a club or bar and you run this line and off you go, to a spot, hers or yours, and you don’t even know this gal. You don’t about STDs, you don’t know if she got a crazed boyfriend or hubbie, you don’t know if she trying to set you up, and most of all, you don’t know if she’s a Glenn Close, Fatal Attraction-type chick. All you know is you got a quick lay w/a quick line. Not cool. Not cool at all.

    The Quick & Easy Path…that leads to the Darkside.

    All good seductions take time to do correctly, and in order to do that, first you have to have quality ingredients. Let’s start with you-are you are high quality guy, or a dollar store guy? Me, I can’t just jump into bed w/a Woman inside of an hour of meeting her, even if she’s hot as all get out. I got to get to know her first; this is where Courtin’ becomes so important. And besides, I ain’t no cheap thrill.

    So, I like to get to know the gal before I do anything, and besides, you also build comfort w/the Woman as well. She’s the other main ingredient. A high quality Woman won’t want to put out like that right away, which is good.

    So, you have two main high quality ingredients, yourself and the lucky Woman you have selected. The remaining ingredients have to do with working your seduction through Solid Game, taking her through *all* the steps of Courtship. Some guys frown at this, but I like to let them know that I do it more for me than for them, and why? Because I place a very high value on the African Mahogany I got right here. I just don’t go around putting it in anything female. It has taken me many Moons to refine my bedroom skills; they are not to abused or wasted.

    It has been said that much can be said about a Man by noting the kind of Women he keeps company with. If that’s true, what does it say about you when you use such quick & easy tactics to land Women in bed?

    My Brothers, Respect Yourself.

    And always, always, Respect your Gun.

    The Obsidian