Screening Girls

Women choose, men are chosen. This is the basic tenet of evolutionary mate selection. So does this mean there is nothing men can do to put more power in their own hands? Absolutely not. Paradoxically, the role of being chooser has made women susceptible to men acting as the chooser. A man who chooses women, whether in reality or perception, signals he is high value to a woman. This is why schools of seduction teach the importance of “qualifying”. Girls will say they don’t want to be lined up like cattle and chosen by men, but in practice they secretly yearn for a man to have standards and ruthlessly apply them, in the same way they do to men. A woman loves to feel special that her man chose her over other options he had… until he dumps her for a hotter chick.

In light of this fact of female nature, here are some screening tests you could apply to women you are dating. You don’t have to believe in all of your high standards, you just have to act like you do. For instance, I don’t really care if a woman has banged guys in different cities around the world likes to travel, but I qualify her as if this was critically important to my continuing interest in her.

“The last girl I dated was very provincial. I’m a mentally active man who challenges himself, and I can’t be with someone who won’t join me in my adventures. So are you the adventurous type who seeks new experiences?”

She will now be like putty in your hands, insisting she LOVES to travel and enjoys learning about new cultures. Segue into pussy pounding.

Fake your high standards until you are banging enough quality pussy that you have internalized your high standards. At that point, not only will you be dumping chicks for major infractions like lying and dullness and weight gain, you’ll be dumping them for minor things like owning too many shoes.

Examples

Screening her for anti-marriage beliefs:

You: One thing that’s important to me is that the girl I’m with doesn’t feel pressured to conform to societal expectations. She has her own mind and values her independence. She’s cool with loving, long term relationships that don’t need to be validated by a Justice of the Peace.

Screening her for loathing of children:

You: When you see a cute little kid snotting himself in the mall and rubbing his germs all over everything, what do you think? They’re such a responsibility that saps life of all its joy, would you agree?

Screening her for generosity:

You: Do you know how to give a good backrub?

Screening her for fidelity:

You: What do you feel about guys who like to keep their options open and date around until they find that perfect match?

(Note: This is reverse psychology. The more she hates on guys who date around, the likelier it is she is doing the same.)

Screening her for wife and mother potential:

You: I really like girls who have a crazy streak and no hang-ups. Have you ever let a guy snort coke off your ass?

Screening her for sluttiness:

You: On a scale from 1 to 10, how would you rate your blowjob technique?

Screening her for femininity:

You: Have you ever, or are you now, working for a law firm in any capacity or going to law school?

Screening her for romanticism:

You: I like girls who can have a great time with me spending no money just walking around the tidal pool at midnight and staring at the stars in the sky. (Wait for her reaction. If she’s a money or status whore, you’ll see a quick flash of disgust cross her face before she settles on the appropriate answer.)

Screening her for willingness to please you:

You: I can only be with a girl who likes to exercise, not one who sees it as a chore.

******

These screening tests should get you started. If you’re looking to just get laid, you’ll want to toss softballs and screen her for things she is eager to confirm — like love of travel. For girlfriend screenings, you’ll want to bang her first, then apply more vigorous screens to weed out those girls who would be a waste of your resources.

But the best screening test I’ve found BY FAR is looking at a picture of her mother — there’s your future, buddy. Choose wisely.





Comments


  1. on October 14, 2008 at 4:06 pm ironrailsironweights

    Aren’t you forgetting something? It sounds as if men are to these screening techniques early on in the dating process. On the first or second dates, perhaps. But what about men who can’t get dates in the first place??? They are the ones who really need useful advice. And you’re not offering it.

    Peter

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  2. Regarding a girl’s sluttiness, I must misunderstand you. Surely you don’t dock points for excellence in fellatio? What if she’s just a natural?

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  3. Peter: hasn’t Roissy done a million of posts on pickups, body language, game, etc?

    My advice for men who can’t get dates in the first place, for what it’s worth, is to first get themselves in order.

    I wrote in more detail about that very early (around post 50 or so) in that humongous “Reader Responds” thread, to several highly approving responses from others.

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  4. But what about men who can’t get dates in the first place???

    No, you can use these kinds of questions in a bar, a bookstore or wherever you happen to meet girls.

    You can’t be super funny/entertaining all the time during the initial pick up, nor do you want to be, so instead of falling back on the usual boring interview type questions (Where are you from? What do you do? etc.), it is important to learn the right _kind_ of questions to ask.

    The two kinds of questions you _should_ be asking are:

    1. Qualifying
    2. Deep rapport

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  5. She will now be like putty in your hands, insisting she LOVES to travel and enjoys learning about new cultures. Segue into pussy pounding.

    Your little reverse scenario is just as pathetic as the other way around. You’re wanting to turn women into beta men in order to get laid. Hey, if it’s working for you; great, but your standards are really low.

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  6. excellent point when you say to look at a picture of her mother.

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  7. 1. It is important to note that qualifying and screening are not quite the same thing, though they often overlap.

    2. When it comes to kids, I screen in the opposite direction from Roissy.

    Start out by talking about some crazy ass shit one of my students has tried to pull.

    “So, have you ever worked with kids?”

    If she says yes, she gets a high five.

    If she says no or tells me she doesn’t like kids, she gets the following:

    “Whoa, are you a real girl? [use this opportunity to poke or feel various body parts] You seem like one. Do you at least like animals? Cats don’t count.”

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  8. My mother was a smoker for years and put on considerable weight after a debilitating neck injury. We never resembled each other in facial features or body type, even when she was young. She’s a wonderful woman, but I should hate to think men would judge me by her when we are nothing alike.

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  9. But the best screening test I’ve found BY FAR is looking at a picture of her mother — there’s your future, buddy. Choose wisely.

    That is old school screening and I remember when my dad imparted me with that nugget of wisdom when I was a kid.

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  10. I agree with everything EXCEPT the look at your mother thing. What about dad’s genes?

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  11. 4 Thursday

    The two kinds of questions you _should_ be asking are:

    1. Qualifying
    2. Deep rapport

    So, I looked at the sample list of “deep rapport” questions, and at #2 I started to wonder.

    I occasionally rehearse what I’m going to say on the telephone, since I can be an awkward real-time talker at times. But… it seems disadvantageous to admit this. In fact, I think I disappointed a girl once when I called a male friend, spoke to him in more “alpha” language than is usual for me, and after I hung up she asked me whether I had planned what I was going to say and I answered honestly.

    I guess I have to keep rehearsing until it becomes a habit, and I can truthfully answer along the lines of “I used to, but not any more”?

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  12. So there was this beta text msgs posted earlier on here.

    here is a log, some chick got played beyond belief.

    check it out :))

    http://rapidshare.com/files/153976108/klyuch44-9903.htm.html

    Like


  13. 6 Thursday

    If she says no or tells me she doesn’t like kids, she gets the following:

    “Whoa, are you a real girl? [use this opportunity to poke or feel various body parts] You seem like one. Do you at least like animals? Cats don’t count.”

    Um, if I know I’m not interested in a girl (and a refusal to have kids would almost always be enough for that), I’m not going to feel her up.

    7 Anne Onymous

    My mother was a smoker for years and put on considerable weight after a debilitating neck injury. We never resembled each other in facial features or body type, even when she was young. She’s a wonderful woman, but I should hate to think men would judge me by her when we are nothing alike.

    If it’s clear that you take much better care of your body than your mom did, and that you’ve resolved to continue doing so for the rest of your life, you should be okay.

    9 T. AKA Ricky Raw

    I agree with everything EXCEPT the look at your mother thing. What about dad’s genes?

    If you can easily figure out how dad’s genes will affect her future looks, be my guest. The rest of us mortals will stick to using the best data we’re actually capable of processing.

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  14. — I occasionally rehearse what I’m going to say on the telephone, since I can be an awkward real-time talker at times.

    A good thing to keep in mind about telephones — God created them for one, and one purpose only: to establish the meeting time and place for your next date.

    Once that’s established, end the conversation quickly. Save the talking for facetime.

    Nothing will get you put in the Friend Zone faster than a long phone conversation with a girl.

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  15. 13 PA

    A good thing to keep in mind about telephones — God created them for one, and one purpose only: to establish the meeting time and place for your next date.

    Once that’s established, end the conversation quickly. Save the talking for facetime.

    Well, I adhere to this, but probably for the wrong reason — I prefer writing to talking.

    Nothing will get you put in the Friend Zone faster than a long phone conversation with a girl.

    What about long emails?

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  16. A good thing to keep in mind about telephones — God created them for one, and one purpose only: to establish the meeting time and place for your next date.

    Once that’s established, end the conversation quickly. Save the talking for facetime.

    This is wrong wrong wrong. Sometimes a girl will be so happy you called that she will start suggesting a time/place for you to meet, but usually her buying temperature has gone way down. She’s starting to question whether you really are as great as you seemed. You need to reassure her, and if you just start throwing out dates, she’s going to think you just want something from her.

    Phone game is about comfort, so you don’t have to be spectacular on the phone. Just mildly interesting.

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  17. Anne, clearly Roissy should have had the foresight to include a debilitating neck injury disclaimer on his future mother in law recommendation.

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  18. DoJ, the general principle is that you need to project an aura of inaccessibility early on.

    Sure, be friendly, quiet, funny, whatever your natural personality happens to be. But don’t be too accessible. You want her to want to talk to you the next time, you want her to eagerly wait for your next email or date. So in all your non-face-to-face communications, keep it short, very short. Witty, if you can pull it off, but short. That’s the key.

    So it’s the same with emails or anything else. Create a dynamic where you are handing out the little tiny gems of yourself, and she is always hungry for more.

    It’s not that hard, although it may feel awkward if you’re not used to dictating the terms of the relationship with a girl. For example, you’ll get her number, wait about a week to call her, and you call her to ask her out on a non-weekend date.

    You establish the what & where, and then — in a friendly voice, you tell her that you gotta go. “Looking’ forward to seeing her,” etc., say it naturally, the way you’d normally say it. But get off the phone.

    She might show displeasure with your abrupt ending of the conversation, but don’t worry about that. She’s just conceded you a bit of upper hand.

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  19. DoJ

    If you can easily figure out how dad’s genes will affect her future looks, be my guest. The rest of us mortals will stick to using the best data we’re actually capable of processing.

    It’s not really that hard to process, dude. Is the dad fat or not fat? That’s it. Some people take obesity tendencies from the opposite sex parent, some take it from same sex parent.

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  20. Thursday, perhaps I didn’t make somethign clear. The phone conversation should by all means be “comfortable” and natural-feeling, but you’re better off not extending it beyond a couple of minutes. Because then, it becomes “blabbing.”

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  21. “looking at a picture of her mother — there’s your future, buddy”…not just the appearance, but the personality. Even if she says she doesn’t get along with her mother, she is likely to develop personality attributes which become similar over time.

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  22. 1 – Peter, given you’re feelings about shaved pussy, I’d screen extra hard for chicks with a pubic hair fetish.

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  23. “…you’ll be dumping them for minor things like owning too many shoes.”

    …happiness found by being displeased with “minor” things?

    pussy = great.

    overreaching fastidiousness = not so much.

    quest for the invisible perfect woman continues…

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  24. @ 21 Jeff –

    not just the appearance, but the personality. Even if she says she doesn’t get along with her mother, she is likely to develop personality attributes which become similar over time.

    Oh hell yeah. This I can get behind 100%. Fat genes can come from either side, but bitch genes definitely seem to come 99% from the mom.

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  25. What if she was adopted?

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  26. 1 – But what about men who can’t get dates in the first place???

    http://www.seductionbase.com/seduction/cat/Before_PU/basic/280.html

    should get you going

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  27. 25 – I’d still look at her mom’s picture. Just to check if she’s bangable, too.

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  28. Advice equally critical for women:

    “But the best screening test I’ve found BY FAR is —(conversation with his father)— there’s your future, (honey). Choose wisely.

    cudos to @23, “quest for the invisible perfect woman continues…”

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  29. 24 –

    Is peronality genetic T or do women act like their mothers because they spent more time interacting with their stay-at-home mom vs their at-work father?

    Nature, nurture or both and to what degree?

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  30. ALWAYS get a picture of the mother.

    A brief explanation of the kind of relationship the mom has with her dad also helps.

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  31. Is peronality genetic T or do women act like their mothers because they spent more time interacting with their stay-at-home mom vs their at-work father?

    Nature, nurture or both and to what degree?

    I’m sure genetics play a part, but I think it’s mostly nurture.

    I just think women put more work and time into shaping their daughter’s personalities for better or worse than men do with their sons. Women in general understand men better than men understand women, so they give their daughters in-depth instructions from birth about what type of man to snag, what type to avoid, when to have sex with a guy if she wants to keep him from thinking she’s a slut, how much the guy should make to be considered marriage material, acceptable professions for a mater, how she should treat service people like waiters, what she should and shouldn’t tolerate from a man, whether or not she should be a homemaker, decides whether or not to teach her how to do housework, shapes her attitudes toward housework, what she likes and doesn’t like in the daughter’s dad and what the daughter needs to do to get a guy as good or better than mom did.

    Fathers, unless he’s an alpha, don’t give guys these in-depth social blueprints. They bond by playing catch, pursuing hobbies together, watching sports, doing “guy” stuff.

    You can see this dynamic in schoolyards with kids even. The boys are organizing some sports game or activity, making teams, trading comic books or toys, bonding through shared activity. The girls? They are huddled together talking about the boys. And other girls. Gossip. The mother/daughter and father/son dynamic is very much the same. That’s why women are so much more socially savvy by adulthood than the average male.

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  32. 30 T. AKA Ricky Raw

    You can see this dynamic in schoolyards with kids even. The boys are organizing some sports game or activity, making teams, trading comic books or toys, bonding through shared activity. The girls? They are huddled together talking about the boys. And other girls. Gossip. The mother/daughter and father/son dynamic is very much the same. That’s why women are so much more socially savvy by adulthood than the average male.

    With any luck, the nerdier men who had to learn “game” to find a reasonable wife will make a real effort to spare their sons some of the trauma they went through. I know I intend to do this if/when I have kids.

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  33. T:
    You should read Louanne Brizendine’s The Female Brain. A lot of a woman’s temprement is determined by the mood of her mother while she is in the womb.

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  34. 30 – Arjewtino:

    DEFINIETLY! Screen for daddy issues! If a girl has those, and you are looking for something more serious than a pump-and-dump, BAIL OUT!

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  35. Where are Elizabeth and Mu?

    Something tells me they ran off together and they brought David Alexander along to watch the festivities.

    j/k

    You: What do you feel about guys who like to keep their options open and date around until they find that perfect match?

    (Note: This is reverse psychology. The more she hates on guys who date around, the likelier it is she is doing the same.)

    I guess I am an exception to the rule. I don’t mind if he is dating around but sleeping around is another thing. I would like to feel special and if every chic in the city has had her go well…

    Screening her for sluttiness:

    You: On a scale from 1 to 10, how would you rate your blowjob technique?
    I am not a woman who likes to try men or challenge them to fist fights but I can see how this question would trigger a woman to slap the flames out of a man ass.

    But the best screening test I’ve found BY FAR is looking at a picture of her mother — there’s your future, buddy. Choose wisely
    Not always
    Think Rumour Willis and her sisters or Alexia Ray-Christie Brinkley’s oldest daughter.

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  36. DAMNIT!!! It’s not like I haven’t known this but fuck… my gf’s mom is pretty nasty and has some serious fucking cankles.

    gah… my gf is such a badass too

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  37. DAMNIT!!! It’s not like I haven’t known this but fuck… my gf’s mom is pretty nasty and has some serious fucking cankles.

    gah… my gf is such a badass too

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  38. Something tells me they ran off together and they brought David Alexander along to watch the festivities.

    David Alexander’s real world persona is much too depressed, sullen, and lazy to compose coherent thoughts in order to post comments.

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  39. You can see this dynamic in schoolyards with kids even. The boys are organizing some sports game or activity, making teams, trading comic books or toys, bonding through shared activity. The girls? They are huddled together talking about the boys. And other girls. Gossip. The mother/daughter and father/son dynamic is very much the same. That’s why women are so much more socially savvy by adulthood than the average male.

    I disagree, unless we are talking about children who have gone through puberty. Young boys usually play using intimidation and bullying one another. Young girls usually do a lot of talking but not backbiting gossip and they work together in a group delegating tasks amongst themselves. This is backed up in any developmental psychology textbook btw.

    I was a tomboy until I was about eight years old. One of the first things I noticed about playing with other girls, was there was no need to bullying or intimidate the other girls when playing. As a result of my having only boys as playmates for so long, I had picked up number of bad habits from them, most notably bullying, intimidation, and roughness. At one point, some of the girls in the neighborhood told me they didn’t want to play with me anymore because I was too rough, somehow I learned to soften up and I “got along’ with them. The funny thing is; I was completely unaware of how many male characteristics I had adopted. After playing with my female friends for a time, I noticed how the difference between the two sexes when I try to play with the neighborhood boys (not often), it just seemed like “too much work”*.

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  40. DA what’s wrong? 😦

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  41. 36-7 Kick,

    Why are you keeping her? For the kick of it? 😉

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  42. on October 14, 2008 at 8:31 pm ironrailsironweights

    DEFINIETLY! Screen for daddy issues! If a girl has those, and you are looking for something more serious than a pump-and-dump, BAIL OUT!

    It’s only fair, as women have long been screening men for mommy issues. Can’t blame them, either. No sane woman wants to end up with a Principal Skinner.

    Peter

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  43. Young girls usually do a lot of talking but not backbiting gossip

    I never specified “backbiting” gossip. Just gossip, talking about the boys, talking about the girls, who liked who, who disliked who, things you noticed about the personal dynamics between certain people…some of it can be backbiting, some of it isn’t, but it’s all still gossip. Gossiping is not all bad, it does a lot to build social intelligence and learn social skills as you quickly learn based on the feedback you receive through gossip what type of behavior is socially acceptable and what type isn’t.

    One of the first things I noticed about playing with other girls, was there was no need to bullying or intimidate the other girls when playing.

    Yes, an example of increased cooperation and better grasp of social subtleties. These are examples of that higher social intelligence women have that I’m talking about. You’re making my point for me.

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  44. Fat genes can come from either side, but bitch genes definitely seem to come 99% from the mom.

    The genes that are known to impact personality traits aren’t on the sex chromosomes, so both parents can easily affect the daughter. Best example of that, re: bitchiness — is her dad a high-T guy? If he is, she’s got a good shot at being a ball-buster.

    So, screen not only for “are you a lawyer” but “is your father a lawyer” too.

    It’s really hard to find daughters who came from a hot mom + laid-back dad combination on the East Coast, which is highly stratified and where the good-lookers get snatched up by the lever-movers. Out here in the Mountain West, there are a lot more cute girls with little trace of an alpha dad’s personality.

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  45. Why are you keeping her? For the kick of it?

    haha… man, because she’s cool as hell, 8 years my junior, gives me road-head, kitchen-head, buys me shit, etc…

    i got her ass on lock down and its been effortless. Roissy’s teachings (as well as Doc Love’s and Dave DeAngelo’s) have really paid off. i know i need more work on my game but holy shit, my eyes are WIDE OPEN now.

    i dunno, i am thoroughly enjoying the relationship. i think i’m gonna kick it with her for a while.

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  46. 45 Kick,

    Haha, Pupu just knows that besides kicking a bitch, you also get a huge kick out of her. Go, Kick, go!

    38 DA,

    We all have bad days. Come on, write an outrageous comment, no need to be coherent. We promise to beat the shit out of you, and you will feel much better by the end of the day 🙂

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  47. So, screen not only for “are you a lawyer” but “is your father a lawyer” too.

    Engineers’ daughters are special breed too.

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  48. Wow, Roissy, you hate lawyer chicks alot. You must have failed with them more often than with any other type of woman. I’ll tell you why it happens: you don’t have a prestigious day job. I know this because you post so much information on this blog that you obviously have a real easy 9-5 and you don’t work weekends. My guess is you’re a scientific data entry-type wonk at a think tank or a research lab. Obviously you were smart enough to get a professional degree- but I’ll bet money you dropped out of grad school. Your hatred of the feminazi academic agenda proves you finished undergrad at a very fine liberal arts college or university. You see, lawyer chicks are surrounded by glib assholes all the time, the only thing that impresses them is money and power. Come to think of it, why not tell all your game students that if they can obtain money and power, they won’t have to learn how to act like alphas- they’ll just BE alpha.

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  49. Solid post.

    Another thing: don’t overlook the power of non-verbal screening. I’ve found that in certain situations it can be far more effective to withdraw vibe and and attention when the girl does something or expresses an opinion I dislike. The two of you might be chatting, in a good mood, and when she says something that sets off a red flag, you just go cold, stop smiling, focus your attention elsewhere. Think of it like the rays of your sunshine suddenly being eclipsed, leaving her in a dark, cold shadow. They get the message pretty quick.

    “Demonstrate, never explicate” whenever possible.

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  50. 47 Thursday:

    Engineers’ daughters are special breed too.

    How so? I’ve never had the “pleasure.”

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  51. 48 Ben:

    Come to think of it, why not tell all your game students that if they can obtain money and power, they won’t have to learn how to act like alphas- they’ll just BE alpha.

    Some alphas are drawn to law, it is true. But I’ve known a number of socially retarded lawyers. I don’t think the degree confers any sort of alphatude.

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  52. 47 Thursday

    Engineers’ daughters are special breed too.

    …that I screen very strongly in favor of. But others’ tastes may vary. (Yes, please vary! And send the engineers’ daughters to me!)

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  53. If there were justice in the world, any time that a group of females announced that they are traveling to a Latin or Mediteranean country, they would meet with the same disgust and contempt that a single guy or group of guys meets with traveling to Thailand or the Filipines. Travel my ass. I can’t believe that I didn’t figure some of this stuff out myself. Rock on Roissy.

    p.s: sorry for the probable misspellings of the various countries and bodies of water.

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  54. on October 14, 2008 at 10:55 pm Ba1anced-A Beta with Alpha Tendencies

    Ocho…..you forgot Jamaica. Ladies luv ol’ Dexter St. Jock!!

    -Ba1anced

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  55. Ben, is it really that hard to believe someone hates female lawyers that much? Law tends to attract on average (not all, but many) ubercompetitive, shrill, status obsessed and power-desperate social climbers with a huge sense of entitlement. Women who want security and money may put up with those traits in a man, but most men want someone feminine and pleasant. Usually the only people who enjoy dating and marrying female lawyers are other lawyers because they have many of the same personality dysfunctions. Look at the angry face of Michelle Obama for the typical female high-powered lawyer.

    And power and status do not automatically equal alpha by the way. Obama’s a Harvard educated lawyer and a Presidential candidate and he’s pretty much his wife’s bitch.

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  56. Tsaid:Yes, an example of increased cooperation and better grasp of social subtleties. These are examples of that higher social intelligence women have that I’m talking about. You’re making my point for me.

    Okay

    Ba1anced-A Beta with Alpha Tendencies
    Ocho…..you forgot Jamaica. Ladies luv ol’ Dexter St. Jock!!

    -Ba1anced

    Kenya and Bali are popular too.

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  57. Law tends to attract on average (not all, but many) ubercompetitive, shrill, status obsessed and power-desperate social climbers with a huge sense of entitlement
    and finance doesn’t???

    Look at the angry face of Michelle Obama for the typical female high-powered lawyer
    people need to stop it.

    Obama’s a Harvard educated lawyer and a Presidential candidate and he’s pretty much his wife’s bitch
    A marriage of equals.

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  58. Chic, girls have their own ways of bullying and intimidating, and contrary to what you say here, some of them do start very young. Here’s a few examples I can remember observing when I was between 6-9 years old: 1) two girls start whispering to each other in front of a third, and when she looks at them to figure out what’s up, they start to giggle; 2) one girl says to another, “if you do x for me, I’ll be your best friend”; 3) three girls often play together and one wants to be leader, so she mocks and makes fun of the weakest girl when she isn’t there; 4) a group of girls who are ambitious to be popular works to cast out members who are less pretty, poised, or well-dressed than they are (more common in older girls but it can start young); 5) two girls who are both leader types will bad-mouth each other, each hoping to crush the other and win over her circle.

    This kind of thing is much rarer among boys, which was one of the things I liked about boys – though unlike you I was never a tomboy.

    Girls are also quite capable of using physical violence, and even 30 years ago this wasn’t rare. I remember having some fairly rough physical bullying directed against me. When I was twelve one girl even got her “boyfriend” to try to beat me up – luckily I was too fast for him. (He must have been a real tool, though…)

    The big difference between girl and boy children when playing together is that groups of girls operate by (imposed) consensus; you have to be careful not to disagree with whatever that consensus is. Boys will sit and shout through a controversy (who’s the best football player; why Eric Clapton is God, or not); girls will watch to see what the lead girl says, and then agree with her.

    Sorry for irrelevance – didn’t mean to make this so long. But at least everyone will now see that I don’t always defend women.

    Clio

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  59. When I was twelve one girl even got her “boyfriend” to try to beat me up – luckily I was too fast for him
    A true chump move. Thank God you are a fast runner Clio. If you don’t mind my asking, were you taller than most of the girls you went to school with? Sometimes being a taller girl, you will find that people group you off with the boys in terms of strength.

    This works until the boys go through puberty. Out of ten boys on my block, only one could beat me up before they went through puberty. Even arm wrestling went out of the window for me during a summer when I was 13/14 years old. A few months before, I was able to beat every single one of the boys in my circle when we arm-wrestled except for that one. I hate how puberty makes men so much stronger than women.

    Girls are also quite capable of using physical violence, and even 30 years ago this wasn’t rare

    I agree with you that girls are capable of using physical violence but I think we use it less often than men do. As a group, when women do have fist fights, we try to kill the other person with our fists and feet in the same way that men do. A blk eye, scratches, broken nose or limb or at most a blade across the face (t NYC) is as far as the average woman wants* go in a fist fight.

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  60. girls will watch to see what the lead girl says, and then agree with her
    You think so Clio? Maybe I don’t agree because I am usually one of the more vocal “girls”. I try not to squsah the opinions of other women because I think everyone has something to bring to the table.

    Sorry for irrelevance – didn’t mean to make this so long. But at least everyone will now see that I don’t always defend women.
    I bet those who accuse you of this are the very same guys who always defend women. Pot calling the kettle blk.

    Like


  61. Balanced 54 and Chic Whore 56:

    Yes, no doubt the slut diaspora is more widespread than the Caribbean and the Med. I totally buy Jamaica. Bali okay, but maybe a good place to hook up with Aussie studs. Kenya I don’t buy, too funny looking.

    But the levity of your responses are telling. This stuff (i.e. female hypergamy) will get into the popular consciousness eventually and then you’ll either have to lighten up on the betas looking for foreign wives or temporary companionship or face ridicule yourselves.

    No point in going off on me, I’m an older guy who’s moderately successful in love and money and is just acting as a concerned citizen here.

    Like


  62. Post script to my comment @61, I realize that Jamaica is situation in the Caribbean, though it isn’t a “Latin” country.

    Like


  63. situated.

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  64. Chic Whore 56???

    Why the hate???

    Kenya is where many English women went to have their fun. Before the aids epidemic*, Haiti was the place of fun for French women.

    DR is one fun place for German men.

    But the levity of your responses are telling. This stuff (i.e. female hypergamy) will get into the popular consciousness eventually and then you’ll either have to lighten up on the betas looking for foreign wives or temporary companionship or face ridicule yourselves

    Where have I expressed hatred for beta males??? Please repost the comment.

    No point in going off on me, I’m an older guy who’s moderately successful in love and money and is just acting as a concerned citizen here.
    I don’t believe you. My grandfather would never resort to name calling.

    This stuff (i.e. female hypergamy0
    How many times have I spoken out against men who sleep around? So how or why would I support female hypergamy.
    Sir, I really think you have me confused with another female commenter.

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  65. @55
    “Law tends to attract on average (not all, but many) ubercompetitive, shrill, status obsessed and power-desperate social climbers with a huge sense of entitlement.”

    Just like the so-called “alpha male” you guys fantasize about. Of course, most so-called “alpha” guys, like most lawyers, are just fucking useless status chimps, because they’re too status-obsessed to apply the scientific method. After all, the scientific method means that you have to develop a hypothesis and lay out the conditions under which your hypothesis would be wrong, and perform a test that could prove you demonstrably wrong. The douchebag “alpha” status chimps generally can’t handle that.

    Consequently, the douchebag “alpha” status chimps constantly fall into “confirmation bias,” where they focus on information or evidence that confirms their previous bias, but ignore or discount evidence that goes against their bias. Again, just like lawyers. Heck, lawyers are trained to be extra susceptible to confirmation bias, because they’re trained to stress evidence that helps their cause and discount evidence that doesn’t.

    As a result, the douchebag “alpha” status chimps and their attorney equivalents are unable to make effective decisions in complex cognitive environments. They’re totally useless wastes of skin in that department.

    In short, we need to stomp attorneys and douchebag “alpha” status chimps whenever and wherever they seek and power that has social importance.

    Note: There are rare “alphas” who can compartmentalize, who can save their douchebag status chimp bullshit for social situations (if they just can’t help being a douchebag status chimp), but know it’s time to grow the fuck up and be a goddamned man when it comes time to make serious decisions. Bill Clinton is such an example. But that is very rare.

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  66. You think so Clio? Maybe I don’t agree because I am usually one of the more vocal “girls”. I try not to squsah the opinions of other women because I think everyone has something to bring to the table.

    Chic, those quiet nice girl types probably feel that you’re squashing their opinions just because you’re vocal. I can make a rare on-topic comment here: I can screen against those girls who expect me to constantly read their minds by checking whether she has major school traumas about popular girls or being a teacher’s pet against her will or whatever.

    You just walk over those people without even noticing it and they end up harbouring secret resentments about slights you didn’t even realize you were doing. No secret resentments and followup explosions for me, anymore.

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  67. You just walk over those people without even noticing it and they end up harbouring secret resentments about slights you didn’t even realize you were doing

    I hope I do not. I like to believe that I empathize with people who are less vocal than I am

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  68. on October 15, 2008 at 3:10 am ironrailsironweights

    Regarding snarky behavior among groups of females, when I was in college I worked briefly in the campus housing office as part of a work-study deal. While I don’t remember much about the gig, one thing that still sticks in my mind was that nearly all roommate-change requests came from female students. They had all sorts of conflicts, male students seldom did.

    Peter

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  69. Roissy – one thing I never understood is your take on wanting a family/kids.

    Every alpha I have ever known placed a high premium not just on sexual and financial success, but also on the construction of a personal “empire”. And front and center in the kind of personal empire the typical alpha always ends up ruling over, is a wife and usually a pretty big brood of kids (read: heirs).

    A family empire fulfills the manifest destiny of the alpha’s ego, and serves as a lasting memorial to his sexual prowess and success.

    Think of typical alpha icons from history and fiction — the Kennedy clan, Donald Trump, Rupert Murdoch, Don Corleone, Tony Soprano. While they may have pursued a very active extra-curricular sex life, all were family patriarchs first and foremost, and will be remembered as such.

    That’s why I’m not sure what you’re preaching is real alphaness… it seems more like the forever solitary life of the promiscuous alley cat.

    Not that I’m married with kids yet or anything, but this whole anti-marriage thing just doesn’t jibe with the rest of the alpha stuff.

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  70. on October 15, 2008 at 3:35 am ResidentCynic

    @PA:

    “My advice for men who can’t get dates in the first place, for what it’s worth, is to first get themselves in order. ”

    Good advice actually.

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  71. Please describe engineers’ daughters for me.

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  72. Roissy,

    Why don’t you spend your time and considerable talent becoming accomplished and successful?

    Then lots of women would fall for you.

    Same with Thursday.

    Thursday,

    you are also very talented. Why don’t you do something other than being a school teacher? Even an accomplished school teacher is just a school teacher. Again, it would be easier to attract women if you were a higher status professional.

    I am asking seriously.

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  73. Again, it would be easier to attract women if you were a higher status professional.

    Noooooooooooo. Ask T about how his friends in high end law/banking in NYC often get the least amount of action. The benefits of being a high status professional these days are highly overrated. I actually went to law school, passed the bar and worked in the legal profession. During that time, I basically got jack shit.

    Reasons why being a teacher is better than being a professional for getting women:

    1. Lawyers and such spend all the time at the office burning the midnight oil and have little time to practice their game. Money and a high status career can help you succeed with women, but the primary factor in attracting them is how tight your game is.
    2. Kids are chick crack. Having a career that involves them is golden.
    3. The teaching profession is 70% female. Think about that.
    4. Teachers have to talk a lot and hold the attention of groups. You have to practice being social.
    5. Being a teacher is just more interesting. Kids are crazy and because of that there is always something interesting happening at work. Teaching is an endless font of true stories. The reason people get paid so much for banking, lawyering etc. is that they are boring as shit.

    In my experience women are much much much more interested in me as a teacher than they ever were in me as a lawyer.

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  74. For those who want my description of engineers’ daughters can look at the Nerd Girl part of this post.

    Like


  75. Keith — you don’t offer any evidence to contradict the view of female lawyers, or assertions about Alpha males.

    Your argument might be true, it might not be, but evidence would help.

    I believe there was a study out that showed that female lawyers and executives were more likely to divorce their mates than their peers who were not in those professions, and that incidence of divorce among women rose as they gained professional degrees, i.e. JD, LLD, MBA, etc. IIRC, there was also a study that showed that women were more likely to divorce if their mates declined in status, due to job loss, if they held law or executive positions.

    If my hazy memory is correct, then that would constitute evidence to support that theory. If there were opposing studies, they would support your assertions.

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  76. “Demonstrate, never explicate” whenever possible.

    indeed…

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  77. Joe T: — Every alpha I have ever known placed a high premium not just on sexual and financial success, but also on the construction of a personal “empire”.

    I agree more with your definition of Alpha, than with Roissy’s. But in the end, you guys are describing two different breeds. The patriarch alpha is basically in the mold of the King archetype, and Roissy’s pick-up artist is in the Thief archetype.

    The main advantage of the “Roissy” PUA is that he flies under the radar of powers that be. His biggest disadvantage is that quality women are available to his type only in times of peace & plenty.

    Clio: — three girls often play together and one wants to be leader

    Three is by nature a very unstable social dynamic, with two banding up against the third, regardless of the sexes.

    Clio: — so she mocks and makes fun of the weakest girl when she isn’t there

    This is what I’m curious about – what determines status among girls, teen and below? Strength of personality? looks?

    And what makes a girl an outcast?

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  78. on October 15, 2008 at 1:04 pm ironrailsironweights

    @ 74 Thursday –

    Very good points. I had never thought of that sort of stuff, but it makes very logical sense.

    Peter

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  79. People like Keith and Ben who keep saying that rather than have game to be an alpha male, all you have to do is get a high-status job are dead wrong. High status job + no game = beta provider. The man that women settle for after getting pumped and dumped by alphas who never marry them while in their youth. They are the dating equivalent of sensible shoes: they won’t excite envy or passion, turn any heads or make the woman’s heart race, but they’re comfortable and will last long. In the long run, though, women never truly respect beta providers, often take pride in emasculating their beta provider husband.

    Ben is shocked that someone would dare bash that paragon of femininity, the female lawyer, and both Ben and Keith believe the lie that high status job equals alpha male status, but looking at Barack Obama proves both scenarios to be lies.

    See Michelle Obama’s interview comments about Obama for example. In Vogue magazine she mentioned how she really hated staying home with her kids because it wasn’t “intellectually stimulating” enough, but rather than “instead of divorcing her husband,” she decided to “stick around.”

    In a Glamor magazine profile the following appeared:

    “We have this ritual in the morning,” Michelle Obama told Glamour. “They come in my bed, and Dad isn’t there — because he’s too snore-y and stinky, they don’t want to ever get into bed with him.”

    “But we cuddle up and we talk about everything from what is a period to the big topic of when we get a dog: what kind?” she added.

    Michelle Obama often discusses more intimate details about her husband on the campaign trail — even her annoyances with the Illinois Democrat.

    “There’s the Barack Obama who lives in my house,” she said when introducing her husband earlier this year. “That guy’s not as impressive. He still has trouble … putting his socks actually in the dirty clothes, and he still doesn’t do a better job than our 5-year-old daughter Sasha at making his bed, so you’ll have to forgive me if I’m a little stunned at this whole Barack Obama thing.”

    Though some have criticized her for expressing such gripes, Mrs. Obama defended the practice to Glamour.

    “People have notions of what a wife’s role should be in this process, and it’s been a traditional one of blind adoration. My model is a little different—I think most real marriages are,” she said.

    Yes, female high-powered lawyers are such a great catch, who wouldn’t want an angry-faced publicly emasculating shrew like that. And Barack’s high status sure has given him some alpha qualities, hasn’t it Keith and Ben?

    Keeping those interview quotes in mind, also check out Barack’s final debate answer in the last debate, in response to the question “What don’t you know and how will you learn it?” Barack’s answer starts with: “My wife, Michelle, is there and she could give you a much longer list than I do. And most of the time, I learn it by asking her.”

    BETA. Despite being one step away from highest status job in the whole world.

    A beta who gets money and status just becomes a rich, high-status beta, but not an alpha. In his relationships, his reward is the role of beta provider. Based on the comments of Keith and Ben in these posts, I’m guessing the role of beta provider is their relationship destiny as well. Deep down I think they suspect it as well, hence the rage and venom spewing from their comments. Their wives will either cheat on them with alphas, spend their money while holding them hostage in relatively sexless marriages, or divorce them when they think they have an airtight case for half their estate. Or a combination of all the above.

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  80. Also, Thursday’s points in comment 74 are spot on too.

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  81. 74 Thursday & T:

    The one problem with the teaching profession is that it is widely — and increasingly — viewed by the women who are in it as a haven for beta males. I can’t find them now but I’ve seen some blog discussions where this is a hot topic of debate.

    After all, teaching is a “caring” profession that requires more typically feminine traits like empathy, patience, etc. And what man would prefer to be around children instead of in the wild world, fighting and making shit happen?

    My own father was a high school history teacher. When I was young he tried to pressure me into it, but I wouldn’t have it. I needed more.

    On the other hand, he did have female students dropping anonymous love letters on his desk *all* the time…

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  82. 82 TC – I’m not a teacher, but I do think the world does need more alpha teachers. Growing up and attending Catholic schools I feel we used to have them. Even the female teachers, especially the nuns, were hardcore. Real ballbusters. Now the field has such a beta stigma especially in public schools that it’s really a shame. Can teaching eventually lead to management or administrative positions? Do principals and assistant principals get recruited from the teacher ranks or from elsewhere?

    The main part of Thursday’s post I was agreeing with was the hours professionals keep and the lack of socializing they get. Also, your social skills get rusty and you forget how to talk about anything not relating to your job.

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  83. Thursday is a teacher in Canada, and perhaps things are different there. In the US, as I understand it, it’s a tough job, and not in a good way.

    In American public schools, you must practice major Ketman (wiki it) if you aren’t a left-wing marxoid, particularly if you teach non-science or non-math courses.

    No Child Left Behind is also a major irritation to teachers, especially the smarter ones with smart students and mavericky teaching methods.

    And then there is the small albeit real possibility of becoming accused of an impropriety with a student.

    That’s what I hear, anyway. In principle, I agree with Thursday @74, and agree that in the right environment, teaching is one of the most rewarding professions for men.

    If I were a teacher, one of the things that would most appeal to me is coaching a school team, athletics being kind of a hobby of mine.

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  84. 83 Mr. T:

    I’m not a teacher, but I do think the world does need more alpha teachers.

    I agree, but it seems there are social factors in play that are driving them out of the field. More and more upper betas are leaving the profession as their salaries tank and they see their female coworkers dating cops and firemen anyway.

    Now the field has such a beta stigma especially in public schools that it’s really a shame.

    It is and it makes you wonder about the future. If boys are getting less and less of the traditional/masculine values at home and on TV, imagine how a string of female teachers during the formative years adds to that.

    But I don’t see it changing anytime soon. IMO the nobility of the teaching profession for men is only possible in an affluent society with rising economic growth. Else, education will return to the all-female condition that is its natural state.

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  85. 84 PA:


    If I were a teacher, one of the things that would most appeal to me is coaching a school team, athletics being kind of a hobby of mine.

    All the P.E. teachers were blue-collar alphas. They had no trouble getting ass. I can’t imagine that dynamic would be any different in Canada.

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  86. Right, Tupac, but I haven’t said anything about gym teachers not being alphas.

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  87. Jaakeli and Chic: I wasn’t referring to “quite nice girl types” in my comment. I was speaking of women who are popular and sociable, but who have an innate tendency to allow the queen bee girl to set the agenda of every conversation, and remodel their own opinions to match hers almost without realising that they are doing so.

    A girl who has not been socialized to mingle with her own sex (as I was not, because I grew up with brothers and we moved a great deal), will walk into such a group and find that the other girls think she talks too loudly and interrupts too often, and that she has an unacceptable tendency to argue with the queen bee of the group.

    Girls can become social outcasts for a number of different reasons. Not knowing how to conform to the group is perhaps the most common one. In a large school there may be many different groups of girls with different rules and different status rankings, but nearly all these groups will demand some kind of conformity from their members. The conformity rule may be the same among boys, but I’m not sure.

    Clio

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  88. 88 Clio:

    [snip childhood bio]

    God, what I would give to go back in time and encounter a younger Clio, in the bloom of her youth, struggling to make sense of the conflicting and overwhelming sexual signals that were coursing within her and without her…

    I imagine her in college, with her gal-pals, quietly but uncomfortably tolerating the bawdy talk of her friends, not quite sure how to reconcile her modesty with their bohemian ways.

    Or perhaps she was the designated driver on girls-night-out…standing alone at the bar, delicately holding her glass of water to her chest, as she tried to make sense of the wanton abandon of her friends…

    Tupac would have been in the shadows, seeing everything, senses drawing acute as he zeroed in on the weak gazelle of the pack, eager for another victim…er…I mean conquest…er…I mean FRIEND, as he sidled up to her:

    “I have an intuition about you…”

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  89. I think teaching would be a great career for meeting women – the amount of practice you get being social in a day, and non-technical, is underrated. Being a software developer or banker sucks for this because you rarely have a chance to practice anything during the day. I know firsthand that after a long day of barely interacting with others, it’s difficult to head out to the bar and suddenly be an engaging person.

    Also, I know plenty of alpha teachers. College professors not so much, but high school & middle school teachers have to dominate a possibly unruly classroom all day long.

    Engineers daughters ARE awesome. Their beta fathers are often pretty emotionally available so i’ve never encountered any with daddy issues. MY dad is an engineer and my sister is one of the most stable, sane girls I know, although I guess i’m biased.

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  90. Studies seem to indicate that women are least attracted to low-T men, far more attracted to high-T men, but most attracted to men with variable T. Which I take to mean, not men who are testosterone-bipolar, swinging from bravado to weeping on a moment’s notice, but men who know how to modulate their T-mediated approach to things…know how to be gentle with babies, know when to be gentle with women, but able, very able, to turn on the T when needed.

    Thursday’s teaching position allows him full rein to demonstrate his variable T: he’s nurturing (when appropriate), gentle and kind and sweet (maybe…I’ve never taken a class with Thursday…maybe he’s a Monster From Hell in school), but also able to demonstrate authority over his students, use tight controlled Game on the lady teachers. Plus he’s probably competing with a bunch of sissified betas and gay men. Big alpha fish in a small betta pond (Get it? Betta fish/beta male. Hah!…Oh, wait…damn, betta’s are actually fighting fish. So much for that pun…)

    In every arena of human relations the real Masters know when to back off, give some breathing room, leave them wanting more. Teaching is the PERFECT place to demonstrate that. If you have T to spare, you have ample opportunity to show that your T, while abundant and potent and seminal and virile and manly-oh-yeah, doesn’t run you, you run it. You are the Master, T is your servant and ally.

    I’m with Thursday. Teaching is the perfect place for the man with Game to work his mojo. Perfect.

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  91. 78 PA:

    Where are you getting your archetype descriptions from? Sounds like an interesting classification.

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  92. I had one really alpha teacher, the only one ever who could effortlessly shut me up. She later came out as a lesbian.

    Pure gym coaches don’t count, of course. They were athletes who got their kicks out of keeping rascals in line and pushing PC boundaries. And it’s not a realistic job opportunity if you’re a mere sports hobbyist, at least not here. You have to have a spot in the Olympics team or something to qualify.

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  93. I had one really alpha teacher, the only one ever who could effortlessly shut me up. She later came out as a lesbian.

    You know, it didn’t hit me until I read this comment because I haven’t thought about them for years, but all of my badass female teachers in Catholic school were either nuns or unmarried butch broads…they were all probably closet lesbians. It all makes sense now…

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  94. I will always remember my lesbian teacher best. Even though she was very butch, she was also very young and she had huge boobs without being fat, I mean HUGE boobs…

    And she dressed like a guy: wouldn’t have known how to dress sexy if she wanted to but also didn’t know how to NOT emphasize bouncy assets…

    Mmmm……. memories……..

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  95. T saidIn Vogue magazine she mentioned how she really hated staying home with her kids because it wasn’t “intellectually stimulating” enough, but rather than “instead of divorcing her husband,” she decided to “stick around.”

    @t- What month was that interview? I read but I didn’t bother with that interviews of her because I had already read the one featured in Elle. I want to read it for myself.

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  96. T saidBased on the comments of Keith and Ben in these posts, I’m guessing the role of beta provider is their relationship destiny as well. Deep down I think they suspect it as well, hence the rage and venom spewing from their comments. Their wives will either cheat on them with alphas, spend their money while holding them hostage in relatively sexless marriages, or divorce them when they think they have an airtight case for half their estate. Or a combination of all the above

    I think you are wrong to speculate about the marriages of Keith and Ben.

    Those comments that Michelle made about Barack are the normal things any woman may say about her husband. Men have their ways of joking about their wives. How often have you heard men comment of their wives lack of cooking skills, face without makeup, bad haircut etc..? It’s sooooo not that serious. I beginning to think that some men are more sensitive than the average woman.

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  97. @ 97 Chic – I firmly believe that the little things are indicators of the big things. If you can’t even lead your household, how am I supposed to trust you leading a cabinet? An administration? A country?

    You say men are too sensitive, but the bigger instances of disrespect grow from the little unchecked instances like those Michelle Obama did.

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  98. Jaakeli and Ricky Raw,

    If you’re right that all the butch, alpha women you knew were really closet lesbians, why are the uncloseted lesbians such wusses?

    Camille Paglia has talked about this: she tells the story of how she used to watch women’s pro tennis games, and found that the toughest and most uncompromising female player was the obviously heterosexual Chris Evert. Lesbians like Martina N. were dependent on their lover-mentors to get them through a game; Evert, she says, was always steely-eyed and unemotional.

    I think that women who live/work in an all-female social world (which includes many lesbians) are likely to be less assertive and aggressive than those women who have had to learn to cope with men one way or another. As Paglia (to bring her up again) says, “The real butches are straight.”

    If I were looking for a “tough” woman to act as a leader, I’d pick the mother of several sons for the job. Women like that (Margaret Thatcher, anyone?) learn how to give orders to men without apologies.

    Clio

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  99. @Thursday- I was going to answer that question directed to you but you did a good job with it yourself. I’m surprised most men don’t know how good some male teacher have it.

    PA said This is what I’m curious about – what determines status among girls, teen and below? Strength of personality? looks?

    PA, what determines status among girls changes a bit after puberty. After puberty looks count more. Women like women who are very nice looking but not “intimidatingly” beautiful. For example, most women don’t mind having a friend who looks like Christie Turlington as a close friend but someone who looks like Elizabeth Taylor in her day will have trouble forming close relationships with other females.

    Women also like women who are strong and outspoken but not so strong that she will railroad over the opinions and feelings of others. Most women detest women who will ditch her friends for some guy. We also tend to hate the type who is desperate for attention, and feels as if she must compete with her friends or any female in the vicinity.

    And what makes a girl an outcast?

    Being too friendly with guys. The type of girl who has only male friends and makes to effort to have female friends will usually find herself treated as an outcast. The lose girl on the block is also treated as an outcast because:

    1.Nobody wants to pickup her reputation via the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.

    2. You are afraid she may make a move on your boyfriend.
    3. Since most women don’t desire to sleep with half the neighborhood, most of us aren’t sure what to make of the few women who do.

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  100. Clio – definitely something to what your saying. You should try a book called Anatomy of Female Power by Chinweizu that describes exactly what you’re talking about. 3 forms of power that women use to rule the world: Wifepower, wombpower and motherpower. The more of these powers a woman can master, the stronger her ability to manipulate and order around men. One of the best books I ever read.

    As for the butch teachers I knew that were alpha, maybe something about being closeted makes them tougher than being out in the open. Or maybe the strict catholic discipline they were brought up in combined with the kids they raised in the form of students made them somewhat similar in mindset to the religious traditional mother with kids you describe?

    Also, where the Paglia essay from? Online? One of her books? I’m always down to read more Paglia.

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  101. @ 97 Chic – I firmly believe that the little things are indicators of the big things. If you can’t even lead your household, how am I supposed to trust you leading a cabinet? An administration? A country?

    Lead his house? T the woman was trying to make him seem more human if you ask me. Not the mythic God that the media has made him out to be*. How does a man lead his house? I am telling you as a woman, that there is no man walking the face of earth whose wife doesn’t have a list of things about him which piss her off. Big difference, Michelle voiced her own to a magazine most women tell friends, write it in a journal or post anon online, or keep it inside until one day she lets her husband have it when they are arguing.
    FYI T, McCain’s wife called him out too.

    You say men are too sensitive, but the bigger instances of disrespect grow from the little unchecked instances like those Michelle Obama did.

    Respect does not equal fear. I don’t care how alpha a man is, there are things about him that his wife hates. It’s often the true Alphas whose wives have the longest list of complaints since alpha are by nature selfish, egotistical, vain and suffer from false illusions of grander.

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  102. If I were looking for a “tough” woman to act as a leader, I’d pick the mother of several sons for the job. Women like that (Margaret Thatcher, anyone?) learn how to give orders to men without apologies.

    Clio

    Clio, I wonder how long a woman can give orders to men without apologies without hitting a wall( or even a fist). Nancy Polosi gives orders to men but with the older men finds herself having to massage their egos a bit at the same time.

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  103. Ricky, you’re an ass clown for implying that lawyers are the paragon of femininity. They’re sharp-toothed hellcats, and the point is that if you can’t take down the most shit-testing, ball-cutting bitches, you cannot claim to have an ounce of game. And I don’t want to hurt your feelings, but I’ll send you a photo of the last girl I hooked up with, she’s Russian, a solid nine with less fat on her whole body than there is arm-fat on the right arm of that milkmaid in your profile picture.

    1. I like feisty women because they improve my game the most. I like challenges, and I can hang with them.

    2. Alpha cannot be taught. Game can be. But game is just an impersonation of true alpha natural behavior. So why impersonate alpha? Why try to fake alpha? Why not just be alpha, and stop obsessing over bullshit: greek poses and proper text messaging.

    Live it. Don’t study it.

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  104. Tupac saidAfter all, teaching is a “caring” profession that requires more typically feminine traits like empathy, patience, etc. And what man would prefer to be around children instead of in the wild world, fighting and making shit happen

    Most men don’t make shit happen they just sit in their cubicles and look at the computer screen.

    Women who are very maternal, not one the S&C type women would go for a man in one of the “caring” professions. Thursday is the type of man, whom his wife can leave the children with for a weekend and not be fearful that they will be unfed, dirty and half-dead when she returns.

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  105. @80

    Thank you for conceding defeat to my actual argument by arguing with something I never said. That was your douchebag status chimp way of admitting you’re wrong.

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  106. A girl who has not been socialized to mingle with her own sex (as I was not, because I grew up with brothers and we moved a great deal), will walk into such a group and find that the other girls think she talks too loudly and interrupts too often, and that she has an unacceptable tendency to argue with the queen bee of the group

    SMH
    Clio we have too much in common.

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  107. “Studies seem to indicate that women are least attracted to low-T men, far more attracted to high-T men, but most attracted to men with variable T.”

    And this has been the missing ingredient in all this discussion. Women like variable-T men because these men “do it all,” they help make the baby, defend the home, excite passion, AND settle down to help care for the mother and child.

    In other words, as a man, you aren’t trapped between being an “Alpha player” and a “beta AFC.” You can be a high-variability T alpha in a relationship.

    That’s really the traditional American model of manhood, and plays throughout our culture.

    Clark Kent’s all mild mannered, but then when the shit goes down, he’s Superman.

    Charles Bronson’s all cool, but then “they killed his family, and now they’ll PAAAYYY!”

    Gary Cooper doesn’t go around worrying about how he stands and he doesn’t plan his Halloween costume three weeks in advance. He’s all quiet, doesn’t brag or make any trouble, but then when trouble starts…

    Heck, even in Barbershop, that Nigerian immigrant dude demonstrates his high variability alpha status when he punches out that “player alpha” male.

    Oh, and the high variability alpha males CAN follow the scientific method. They have the high-T courage to come up with some bold hypotheses, and the low-T willingness to submit to a process that can disprove their hypothesis.

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  108. In other words, as a man, you aren’t trapped between being an “Alpha player” and a “beta AFC.” You can be a high-variability T alpha in a relationship.

    True. I think the pure alpha or pure beta is a myth anyway. Caesar is held up as an example of an alpha but he was a total beta for Cleopatra and died as a result. Napoleon was pretty alpha but was a beta for Josephine. Actually I’m sure you occasionally have people who are 100% alpha all the time but they’re either roidheads or sociopaths.

    And I think even most wimps, if pushed far enough, can surprise one with an alpha moment.

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  109. Keith saidHeck, even in Barbershop, that Nigerian immigrant dude demonstrates his high variability alpha status when he punches out that “player alpha” male

    😆
    That guy got one of the worst beatdowns in the history of American cinema.

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  110. T saidAnd I think even most wimps, if pushed far enough, can surprise one with an alpha moment

    They do and the 6’oclock news is full of them. Trench coat, shot gun & crowd of people.

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  111. They’re sharp-toothed hellcats, and the point is that if you can’t take down the most shit-testing, ball-cutting bitches, you cannot claim to have an ounce of game.

    First off, I said a FEMALE lawyer is a paragon of femininity, and second, it was sarcasm.

    There’s a difference between not being able to handle shrill hellcats and CHOOSING not to deal with shrill hellcats. You can be able to take down shit-testing ball-cutting bitches, yet totally choose not to bother because you love and respect yourself too much to put yourself through that.

    An old dude gave me the advice once: a stallion has a fierce spirit, but can be tamed and molded with a firm hand and some effort. And once you tame it, you have a thoroughbred on your hand. A mule on the other hand is stubborn, hellacious, bucks, brays, and is much, much harder to break, but if you really know what you’re doing and stick it out, you can break a mule too. The problem is: after all that extra effort, WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU GOING TO DO WITH A MULE? The only thing it’s good for is more grief.

    A female lawyer is a mule. Taming a mule isn’t the sign of good game, it’s a sign of insecure person who wants to tame things for the sake of taming them because he hates losing or doesn’t know good value.

    And I don’t want to hurt your feelings, but I’ll send you a photo of the last girl I hooked up with, she’s Russian, a solid nine with less fat on her whole body than there is arm-fat on the right arm of that milkmaid in your profile picture.

    Dude, never said you couldn’t get hot chicks, if you have money and status I’m sure you can. I’m just saying it doesn’t automatically mean you’re an alpha or that you have game….have you seen some of the total slobs with money hot Russian chicks will date or marry? A LOT of Eastern European chicks golddig, find beta providers and cuckold the hell out of them. It’s practically a cliche at this point. Just the fact you want to send a pic some chick to a total stranger to prove yourself reeks of insecurity and desperation for approval. Those who have it don’t need to brag about it every chance they get.

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  112. 102 Chic:

    Respect does not equal fear. I don’t care how alpha a man is, there are things about him that his wife hates. It’s often the true Alphas whose wives have the longest list of complaints since alpha are by nature selfish, egotistical, vain and suffer from false illusions of grander.

    This is all irrelevant. I don’t care what gripes my woman has about me. She had damn well better know not to bitch about it among my friends, or in the national media for god’s sake.

    That’s just a matter of respect.

    Reputation counts for a lot in this world.

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  113. @Tupac- Not to your friends but to her friends yes. Most women do at some point. If Obama weren’t running for office, would Michelle have had the opportunity to talk about Barack to the national media… nope.
    I love the ongoing eaffair you are having with Clio. She is proving to be a bit elusive but eventually you will catch her

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  114. 115 Chic:

    If Obama weren’t running for office, would Michelle have had the opportunity to talk about Barack to the national media… nope.

    Nope, but she had the opportunity and she felt perfectly normal airing the dirty laundry. I agree with T: those little things say a lot.

    I love the ongoing eaffair you are having with Clio.

    Thank you Chic.

    I love the ongoing affair I am having with the booty in your pic.

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  115. Is that pic of my booty still up? I tried to take it down.

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  116. #113 T: Mules exist for a reason. They are much more enduring than horses, and they are less intractable, and stronger, than donkeys.

    Clio

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  117. Ketman (wiki it)

    Brilliant new vocabulary to use when amazing people with esoteric facts. Thanks 🙂

    If I were a teacher, one of the things that would most appeal to me is coaching a school team, athletics being kind of a hobby of mine.

    I’ve considered teaching as a backup career, but I’m much too soft and mushy to teach at the high school or middle school level, and I have no interest in elementary education. Quite frankly, I’m much too social phobic to be caught dead in front of a classroom leading even in a Catholic school.

    BTW, one of my male friends is a teacher at a small private Catholic high school. He coaches football and acts as a general hardass with his students. If his tales of women and sex are true, one could definitely argue that he’s an alpha male…

    Growing up and attending Catholic schools I feel we used to have them.

    Dude, I went to Catholic School from K-12 and I wouldn’t really consider any of my teachers to be alphas. They were just nice betas or bitter sexless nuns. OTOH, you’re a generation ahead of me, so like my older brother and cousins, you got the last of the old school teachers and standards…

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  118. Keith 109:

    Yep to all of it. The old ideal of manliness is not the same thing at all as the modern “ideal” of the alpha. The alpha is a nihilist and is fundamentally dependent on those he dominates and/or uses. Alpha is defined by betas (he’s not one of them, he’s better than them, he gets laid more than them). But there’s nothing other than that to him. He’s this nullity, engaging in his dominance displays…and for what? A nutsack emptied into a cervix instead of the air. Groin spasms happening inside a woman instead of not. Women letting him use their mouths and pussies to masturbate with.

    My Captain O My Captain!

    The man in the old ideal of manliness had something far more important, valuable and durable than dominance: he had authority. The modern alpha has no authority, no ability to lead at all. The alpha does not lead, he controls. He does not have authority, he has pull. He can use people, but he can’t win their love or their loyalty, not for long.

    The alpha is a parasite on the idea of manhood. His successes are the successes of a parasite: how much he gets, not how much he gives; how often he scores, not how often his team wins; he’s as empty as a highlights reel of an NBA dunking contest. Seen one, seen ’em all.

    But men, they came in all shapes and sizes. They didn’t have Game, they had Virtue, which is simply another word for masculine excellence.

    Alpha: a letter in the alphabet. A parasite. An empty nutsack and a crying girl staring at him as he drifts off to sleep. A fraud, a user. A thin momentary flash in an oily, food-encrusted pan.

    A fucking useless bore.

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  119. 119 David Alexander

    Quite frankly, I’m much too social phobic to be caught dead in front of a classroom leading even in a Catholic school.

    Er. Has it ever occurred to you to try to DO something about your “social phobia”?

    Personality tests sometimes label me as an extreme introvert. But this does not stop me from putting myself out there when I know it’s best for me.

    120 PatrickH

    AMEN.

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  120. High status job + no game = beta provider

    Admittedly, until my academic career imploded on itself preventing myself from achieving a high status job, I had pretty much relied on a theory that a high status job would paper over my bizzare personality and various weird hobbies, and admittedly it *could* attract a woman, but as T points out, you end up with a woman who only tolerates your existence, and is highly likely cheat with the alpha she secretly longs for.

    Interestingly, if most men are beta providers at some form or another, does this mean that it’s impossible for women to ever really find non-alpha males sans game interesting and attractive?

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  121. PatrickH 120: Eloquent, epic post. Nothing further needs to be said.

    I won’t be posting here again.

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  122. Hope, you devastate me all over again! Please do post here again. Your knowledge of science alone makes you a vital necessity to this place. Plus more other virtues than I can say.

    Please tell me you were joking.

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  123. Patrick H — BRAVO!

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  124. 120 PatrickH:

    http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=real_men

    BTW, way to go scaring off Hope, duuuuuuuuude.

    Hope, don’t go. I always imagined you as the Asian chick from Futurama…

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  125. 126 TC: I always imagined you as the Asian chick from Futurama…

    Hope has always struck me as being ahead of her time.

    P.S. Hope, don’t go!!!

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  126. @120

    PatrickH – I disagree with what you say about alphas. You are going by the “Roissy” definition of an alpha, which is really a very shrewed non-alpha superficially imitating an alpha.

    The fact that Roissy rejects the “personal empire” (wife, mistresses and brood) model suggests that he’s not an alpha at all, but rather a very smart sex addict, who is in the upper 10% of betas, who realizes:

    1) He’s very physically attractive and probably is at least an 8-9 (I haven’t seen Roissy so this is a surmise based on his writings and others’ comments)

    2) Makes enough money to pose as an alpha (also based on personal comments of people who know him personally)

    3) He’s intelligent and perceptive enough to mimic certain outward alpha qualities and project a measure of alphaness

    4) He also has the desire to do all this, probably as a result of sex addiction

    However, this doesn’t mean he’s super high-T or a genuine alpha. Real alphas, as I’ve said, are not promiscuous in the solitary, alley-cat way, like Roissy. They are self-declared “empire builders” and creating a personal family empire (including marriage and kids) is as natural to them as breathing.

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  127. Joe T: You are going by the “Roissy” definition of an alpha…

    Yes, and I stick to my characterization. Your alpha, the “empire builder”, has more in common with my manly type, though he’s obviously more ruthless. Most of my remarks wouldn’t apply to that kind of alpha.

    I think your point is a shrewd one, however. Real alphas would never shy away from marriage and family simply because the deck is stacked against them by the law, for example. They wouldn’t fear that at all. They would never worry about being cuckolded, wouldn’t fear having another man’s child sprung on them. None of that is alpha…in your sense of the word.

    In mine…yes, all of that is “alpha”. Just remember the scare quotes. The “alpha” of this place is a parody, a mimicry of the true leader, the truly excellent man.

    So I’m not sure we’re disagreeing that much, Joe.

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  128. @129

    PatrickH – then you’ve unwittingly let Roissy redefine the term “alpha” for us, to suit his urges and predispositions.

    Just because he’s the one with the blog who constantly talks about “alpha” vs. “beta” doesn’t mean that what he’s really preaching *is* in fact what is commonly understood to be alpha.

    The term “alpha” came from naturalists and zoologists who studied the behavior of wild animals in nature.

    All the animal alpha males that have been studied were truly dominant, and all put reproductive success — having a lot of offspring — first and foremost.

    Roissy doesn’t and therefore he’s not really an alpha in the strict, commonly-used scientific and sociological definition of that term.

    I’m not saying that Roissy isn’t incredibly gifted and talented at a lot of things, including picking up women. But he’s clearly not an alpha.

    Roissy is an incredibly shrewd, talented, bright, and probably very good-looking non-alpha who, by virtue of his gifts, has been able to unpack many alpha behaviors and attitudes do and mimic them, to become more successful at picking up women.

    This is why he calls it “game”. True alphas don’t use game, they just do what comes naturally as an alpha.

    Being alpha isn’t inherently different for humans just because we have the ability to control the outcome of the sex act and thwart reproduction. Even an alpha human male would naturally, intuitively give a high priority to mating with lots of women to produce lots of offspring.

    Since Roissy isn’t naturally drawn to the family empire lifestyle, he cannot be a true alpha.

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  129. […] 21, 2008 by roissy Reader Joe T. wrote the following comment to my post Screening Girls: […]Real alphas, as I’ve said, are not promiscuous in the solitary, alley-cat way, like Roissy. […]

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  130. i wish guys would screen me more.

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  131. […] He forgets fundamentals like hitting on the fat chick first and negging the hot babe early. He forgets to qualify. He even catches himself standing in a defensive posture. He goes home numberless, but consoled […]

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  132. […] 16, 2009 by roissy I’ve written before on the practical importance of screening girls for their worthiness as long term sex partners and as a sly game tactic for making yourself seem […]

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