The Ideal Lover Can Never Be The Great Boyfriend

Men are burdened with a duality. We feel impelled to commit to a chaste woman but we will happily sleep around with raging sluts. Women, too, are creatures of duality. They relish the emotional connection with the great boyfriend who dotes on them and pampers them but they succumb helplessly to their raw sexuality with the ideal lover. The god of biomechanics is, if nothing else, a practical joker.

There are very few men who embody both the great boyfriend and the ideal lover in equal measure. In fact, my experience in the trenches of modern decadence leads me to conclude there are NO men like this. 50/50 internal power sharing between lover and supporter, manifestly expressed in perfect synchronicity with a woman’s unspoken needs for the one or the other masculine archetype, is the myth of “the One” perpetuated by the feminist grievance industry to keep women unsatisfied and constantly searching. The truth is that most men, by innate character, lean one way, and a few men of purity wholly abandon their soul’s struggle and jettison one archetype to fully embrace its opposite.

How do you know if you are closer in character to the ideal lover or to the great boyfriend? To answer this for yourself, consider the following scenarios, and then decide if they accurately describe how you would behave in your own life.

  • Holiday shopping (Kwanzaa not included)

The great boyfriend thinks of the gifts he will buy others before he thinks of himself. His time shopping is spent with a gentle smile envisioning the look on his lover’s face when she sees what he bought for her.

The ideal lover thinks of all the fantastic shit he will buy for himself before he thinks of others. His time shopping is spent with a joyous grin perusing the electronics section, and only after he has sat in the massage chair at Brookstones for a while does he put in a token effort to find reasonably acceptable gifts for his girlfriend.

  • Family

The great boyfriend showers affection on his family. He is especially affectionate with little nieces and nephews.

The ideal lover is either fighting or drinking with his family. He is the first to teach his little nephew how to flip the bird and what it means.

  • Sex

The great boyfriend is a master of foreplay and delaying his own gratification. He is a slow and steady lovemaker. The look of surrender on his woman’s face during orgasm brings him almost as much pleasure as his own climax. Sex is often preceded by the lighting of scented candles and the playing of soft jazz.

The ideal lover is selfish in bed. He may eat his woman out for an eternity one night while hurting her anally another night, slowly grind into her missionary style or jackhammer her like a rutting cape buffalo, but always know that everything he does sexually to her is in service to his penis. He will often not know nor care if she came, and what usually precedes sex is a rough hand up her skirt.

  • Compassion

The great boyfriend will listen intently when his girl has had a bad day, careful not to brusquely offer any pointed suggestions to alleviate her sadness, instead opting to massage her shoulders and make her some soup.

The ideal lover will attempt to take his girl’s mind off her worries with hot sex. It will usually work.

  • Values

The great boyfriend appreciates his girlfriend’s values, and this is reflected in his mature respect for her political views, even when he disagrees.

The ideal lover only cares for one value — his lover’s commitment to the righteousness of sexual abandon. He’s apolitical as far as she knows, because he’s very good at mentally dismissing her silly political beliefs as the earnest naivete of an unworldly little girl.

  • Compatibility

The great boyfriend understands that much of what makes a relationship successful are shared goals and interests. He loves spending time with his lover doing things they both enjoy, and he will put in the extra effort to learn about those things she likes to do but which he is either unfamiliar or uninterested. For instance, if she likes tango dancing but he’d rather play pool, he’ll spend a night or two attending tango classes with her and making her feel worth his sacrifice.

The ideal lover understands that what makes a relationship successful is not spending too much time together. Quality over quantity, and in his world the best measure of quality is how often intercourse is happening. He will occasionally treat his lover to romantic nights out, but when she wants him to join her on her trip to Antartica he’ll stroke her cheek lovingly and tell her to have a good time by herself.

These examples should give you an idea where on the testicular spectrum you fall. Are you a Latin lover or a loving partner? Like I said, most men lean one way or the other, a few embrace an extreme, and only Master Casanovas balance their dual essence so evenly that their women are always breathlessly infatuated with them.

The men who have complete command over their women are the men who intuitively know when to disarm with the tender ministrations of the great boyfriend or the lustful recklessness of the ideal lover. When you are aware of this ever present immutable female desire for dualing male archetypes, you will find it that much easier to direct a woman’s emotions, like Mozart conducting a symphony. A woman’s loyalty is as much a function of your ability to seduce it out of her as it is of her character.





Comments


  1. on December 2, 2009 at 9:18 am detective dipshit

    I’ll take the great boyfriend over life in hell; thank you very much.

    Like


  2. The ‘great boyfriend’ descriptions sound extremely beta if that’s his only mode with his girl.

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  3. It is interesting how Beta Casanova is at the start of his journey and how he overcomes it.

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  4. The chemistry between Warren Beatty and Annette Bening in “Bugsy” was amazing. That’s an example of a real relationship. Beatty=GangstaAlpha

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  5. Prince Charming, should he exist, is a raging homosexual. Nothing more needs be said.

    Like


  6. Am I the only one here that is starting to think that either Roissy currently has a girlfriend or is atleast seriously dating someone because his posts as of recently have been way more philosophical and/or pop culture based instead of hard-core “get in her panties” techniques?

    Roissy, get back to telling these men advice on how to get women. Its what your good at and its what they need.

    Like


  7. on December 2, 2009 at 10:50 am Cannon's Canon

    here is where i meant to display my timely humor about jackhammering a cape buffalo. obsidian would do that, after running ‘mahout game’.

    Like


  8. Jamila

    Am I the only one here that is starting to think that either Roissy currently has a girlfriend or is atleast seriously dating someone because his posts as of recently have been way more … pop culture

    nope we all know about it. hes dating The Perfect black chick. they can have that effect on a white guy

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  9. The ideal lover understands that what makes a relationship successful is not spending too much time together.

    this is really true in the context of a long term marriage. each will remain more interesting and desirable to each other when you have some separation of friends, work, and recreation.

    so: some shared, some separate

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  10. Jamilia:

    “Roissy, get back to telling these men advice on how to get women. Its what your good at and its what they need.”

    the beauty of the site is that it provides both facets; the more theoretical and the practical. you can’t have roissy without both. personally i enjoy this type of post and even the more technical ones than i do pure Game advice.

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  11. The first thing my wife said when she read this post, “The perfect boyfriend would be hell.”

    Proof I married an Alpha female.

    It is hard to juggle between the two archetypes, but practice makes perfect. The key in my experience is to look for the signs that one or the other is wanted. If all else fails, be Alpha. As long as you are Alpha you can do no wrong.

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  12. A woman’s loyalty is as much a function of your ability to seduce it out of her as it is of her character.

    Actually, a woman’s satisfaction in a relationship correlates with psychological femininity in her partner. Loyal women are women who like betas and choose them as their partners.

    But not too beta, of course.

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  13. I’m kind of in the middle…but definitely lean more towards the lover part of the selfishness spectrum but there were plenty beta moments in my life when I catered towards her bs and put up with withdrawal of sexual favors that makes me cringe to remember…

    Great post.

    P.S. The great boyfriend that so gleefully plans his shopping to cater to his gf almost makes me sick.

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  14. RE: Psychological femininity in husbands

    Link here.

    Be sure to read all the comments.

    Like


  15. I know Victoria’s Secret, and I am the one TLC “creeped” with.

    – MPM

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  16. @detective dipshit

    You mean:
    “I’ll take the great boyfriend over life in hell;
    then cheat on him with great lover whilst I torment my great boyfriend with the 9th circle of hades. I will then parse out love according to:
    2/3rds guilt,
    1/3rd reasons why I wont fuck him the way or frequency he wants;
    and due to his supreme attentiveness to my needs I will fuck him once a month – so that I can share the std from the cheating lover I get. thank you very much”

    Happy to help you amend your remarks to the full truth – so that you avoid putting your pretty lies on this board.

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  17. Roissy, get back to telling these men advice on how to get women. Its what your good at and its what they need.

    There are plenty of sites with as good a game advice. Broader commentary is what Roissy does best.

    Like


  18. Jamila-

    I was just thinking the same thing about the definite change of tone in Roissy’s posts lately. A lot more emphasis on LTR game.

    I agree more with Chuck and Thursday. Posts like these exemplify Roissy at his best. My takeaway from Roissy’s blog is a change of attitude that comes from a more foundational understanding of the psychology of male/female interation.

    I’m currently in a new relationship (the first since having learned some game and reading posts like Roissy’s), and concepts like embracing this duality and how to be in better control of the relationship are invaluable. I feel much more capable of how to act and react to keep the relationship great.

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  19. what, in your opinion, would be a loyal girlfriend?

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  20. I find it more indiciative of social pressure through expectations (rather than evo-psych, though that is, obviously, a factor) that the duality of the boyfriend/lover roles are at such extremes and exploited as such.

    The constant talk about alpha males versus beta males, with very little blend or overlap, really creates a one-dimensional, easily accessed and understood male character. It’s too simple, too generic.

    That purity is simply, to me, a need to conform to expectations and roles.

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  21. An instant classic.

    Three notes:

    1. I think the great lover can at times be a somewhat acceptable boyfriend to a girl who isnt too much of a princess.

    2. Instead of talking about his family, talk about the guys relationship to hers. Guys relationships to their own family’s have to do with a lot of factors…but one thing is certain: the ideal boyfriend will be great around her family, the lover won’t give a shit.

    3. This is a post that most normal girls would agree with Roissy on, even if they would argue hard against his other stuff.

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  22. I agree that you need to provide a balance. But based on these descriptions, I’m 80-90 percent lover. That leads me to think the descriptions of the boyfriend are a bit limp-wristed; my woman wouldn’t still be enamored with me after all these years if I were a selfish jackass all the time, yet I really don’t identify with the boyfriend traits described here.

    Like


  23. I really don’t identify with the boyfriend traits described here.

    The boyfriend does sound a bit too wussy.

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  24. “The boyfriend does sound a bit too wussy.”

    More or less agreed, but it gets the point across.

    I think the better way to actually take the test is to ask if you would do the lover’s actions or not. Answer it as yes/no to the lover.

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  25. Jamila,

    “Am I the only one here that is starting to think that either Roissy currently has a girlfriend or is atleast seriously dating someone because his posts as of recently have been way more philosophical and/or pop culture based instead of hard-core “get in her panties” techniques?”

    You know, re-reading this with that in mind (as opposed to just pure content), it really sounds like he’s trying to justify or rationalize his own behavior in his relationship. Especially with the holidays approaching, there’s the likely concern of meeting family, spending time with the ‘rents, introductions, social/familial pressures, and even more emotional bonding (submission in the PUA’s eyes).

    I’m absolutely fascinated. I wish we had a Roissy reality TV show so we could watch this battle of transformation and the eventual fall out.

    Like


  26. the ideal man has mastery of both, and the wits to never fall into one extreme with any woman. the ideal man is both, capriciously, contemporaneously. even when barbarianesque, his woman can’t help but sense a subservient romantic side. even when romantic, she sees him as a dominant lover.

    the ideal lover may never be the great boyfriend, but the ideal man is both; this is the meta-archetype of absolute dominance, the grand balance we all seek.

    contrast = intrigue = king

    only by experimenting with extremes can we find limits, and in those limits, the path of least resistance turns darker or brighter; the shades of gray peter themselves out.

    Like


  27. The Skittles Man ideal should be read as a corrective to today’s pedestalizing beta male, or as a way of handling she-lawyers for pump & dumps, not as an LTR Game template.

    Too much asshoel game will get a girl to leave you eventually, unless she’s a headcase.

    Like


  28. It seems like the perfect boyfriend/perfect lover are extremes and most people are supposed to identify somewhere in the middle like a 1 (perfect boyfriend)-10(perfect lover) type scale? That’s why some people are thinking the perfect boyfriend is too beta, because no one is actually that way? Maybe?

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  29. “in fact, my experience in the trenches of modern decadence leads me to conclude there are NO men like this. ”

    To say they don’t exist is an overstatement but then again this is roissy’s. keep looking for this guy for a ltr, ladies. I was lucky enough to find one (ideal lover + great bf). they are out there.

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  30. @ dick fuel…

    the ideal man has mastery of both, and the wits to never fall into one extreme with any woman. the ideal man is both, capriciously, contemporaneously…

    Completely agree. …And exercised in push-pull fashion.

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  31. The best piece of relationship advice my dear mother ever gave me was the following:

    “A woman wants a man who is INDEPENDENT enough that he can easily be away from his woman. She also wants a man DEPENDENT enough such that he can’t ever be away from his woman. Your challenge, son, is that women want this feature in the very same man and are too illogical to realize this is a problem.”

    Keep in mind this advice came decades before the word “game” was even invented. Heck, my mother shared this advice before some guys practicing “game” today were even born.

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  32. http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/personal/12/02/rr.boyfriend.not.enough/index.html

    one of those women journalists who thinks they are (or should be) really hot, as per Sailer (Sailer’s law?)

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  33. “The ideal lover is either fighting or drinking with his family.”

    This is retarded, many alpha ideal lovers have good relationships with their families.

    “He is the first to teach his little nephew how to flip the bird and what it means.”
    ^^^

    I have a great relationship with my family and I would still do this.

    “The ideal lover is selfish in bed.” Oxymoron
    Anyone with a smattering of sexual knowledge esp wrt to the ancient arts of tantra (orgasm that last hours for both partners) knows this is total bullshit.

    “The great boyfriend will listen intently when his girl has had a bad day, careful not to brusquely offer any pointed suggestions to alleviate her sadness, instead opting to massage her shoulders and make her some soup.

    The ideal lover will attempt to take his girl’s mind off her worries with hot sex. It will usually work.”

    WRT to this is, what i do is listen, not say a word, then lead to bedroom to hot sex. I disagree with Roissy again here, to not make suggestions is textbook ideal lover stuff actually, ( it shorten the time that he will be pounding that ass) its the beta bf who tries and “reason with her complaints” and turns what could be a night of hot sex into lame massages and night spent watching sitcoms while she eats ice cream.

    “Values

    The great boyfriend appreciates his girlfriend’s values, and this is reflected in his mature respect for her political views, even when he disagrees.

    The ideal lover only cares for one value – his lover’s commitment to the righteousness of sexual abandon. He’s apolitical as far as she knows, because he’s very good at mentally dismissing her silly political beliefs as the earnest naivete of an unworldly little girl.”

    This I completely agree with, I never look to ANY woman for wisdom on politics or any philosophical values. If she happens to mirror my own, fine, but I could care less what she thinks in this realm.

    “The great boyfriend understands that much of what makes a relationship successful are shared goals and interests. He loves spending time with his lover doing things they both enjoy, and he will put in the extra effort to learn about those things she likes to do but which he is either unfamiliar or uninterested. For instance, if she likes tango dancing but he’d rather play pool, he’ll spend a night or two attending tango classes with her and making her feel worth his sacrifice.”

    Eh, this can go either way. Sex should be the number 1 shared interest period…If my girls likes shitty sitcoms, I am not gonna spend time with her watching them, any man who does this is gay. First off, I would be willing to learn tango because a man who knows tango is bad ass and this could lead to more poon with other girls later. However, if her “interests” are lame, I am making no sacrifices, if they involve something that I find I would enjoy, why not ? Doesn’t make you any less of an ideal lover imo.

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  34. I have often wondered what guys think of a David Shade. he is the sex-pert(mentioned in the Game)who talks endlessly about being a good lover and focuses relentlessly on the womans pleasure. he was a student of Major Mark,and does NLP and “hypnosis” etc. Is he an alpha,because this divorced former engineer–who looks EXACTLY like an engineer–is a stud in bed–or is he a beta,ultra attentive and giving?

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  35. I have a theory that the hybrids are out there. I believe they accumulate right on the cusp of the higher beta, lower alpha pool. This would be confident, “nice” guy with a wicked sense of humor but won’t take shit from a girl or anyone else and who can get the lid off of the peanut butter and snake a drain.

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  36. Found a nice article on CNN. Girl meets her perfect guy – looks, money, nice “to a T”, adores her. Doesn’t make her gina tingle.

    She describes it perfectly here: “Now at this junction, I could say that John couldn’t possibly be the perfect man since I’m not attracted to him, but I just don’t think it’s possible to get more perfect than John. Any other guy would be a second-rate boyfriend.

    Comparing John to my past flings of cheaters and liars, he fairs like a golden god.”

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/personal/12/01/tf.not.into.amazing.guy/index.html

    Like


  37. Yep I saw the article on CNN too. I thought — hmm, no tingle, I guess. And if there is no tingle, no dice, no matter what else there is going on.

    Like


  38. One of those “it felt good but I didn’t know why at the time” moments in my early 20s: I’m dating a girl that I am stringing along. OK, not just stringing along, but running massive Skittles Man natural game on her. Cute thing, but I was a bastard at the time.

    For fun, I ask her about some guy who has an unrequited crush on her.

    She tells me: “He’s all right, I guess, but he’s too nice. He’s not fun like you.”

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  39. In my late 20s, when I was going through a nasty depressive streak, I wanted to call her (I had no contact with her since I dumped her, only had her parents’ numeber in my old addressbook) and apologize for my asshole ways back then.

    THANK GOD I did not do that.

    Would have SO ruined her cherished memories of our wild summer nights.

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  40. Real good post, Roissy. I’ve got a name for this phenomena in women – the Lover/Provider complex, similar to the male Madonna/Whore complex. Elaboration here:

    http://www.inmalafide.com/2009/12/01/my-kingdom-for-a-piece-of-tail/

    Like


  41. That’s why memories are a good thing. They come in handy once the pixie dust wears off.

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  42. All I want:

    1) Be an alpha
    2) Have good genes
    3) Pass genes onto my babies
    4) Contribute reliably to the mortgage

    Things I could give a shit about

    1) Presents
    2) Tango lessons
    3) Boyfriend’s nephews

    Why does it have to be so hard?

    Like


  43. on December 2, 2009 at 4:12 pm Marcus Halberstram

    This really shouldn’t be anything new? Actual research has always shown that women prefer a mix of cad (‘alpha’) and dad (‘beta’) traits, with some women leaning more towards one end than others. Of course that these traits (which are all positive) are not mutually exclusive, but as Roissy points out it is rare for a man to have a significant number of both. They represent two different reproductive strategies.

    I personally find both extremes disgusting and would not be interested in any female who desired a man at either end of the spectrum.

    Yes of course the dads can get cuckolded, but cuckoldry does not equal reproductive failure unless all or most of his children are from another man (in which case, epic fail).

    Like


  44. on December 2, 2009 at 4:17 pm Marcus Halberstram

    FeministX,

    I find it likely you don’t fully know what you’re looking for or are unwilling to admit it. Judging by your blog, you’re attractive, intelligent and unusually intellectual. There are plenty of alpha-esque guys who meet your criteria who are interested in women that can actually carry on a conversation about something other than shoes or purses.

    Like


  45. All I want:

    1) Be an alpha
    2) Have good genes
    3) Pass genes onto my babies
    4) Contribute reliably to the mortgage

    This describes, to a tee, the attitude of irresponsible single moms. With the possible exception of #2, since some of those moms are abysmal at selecting what would normally be considered “good genes”.

    Do realize that those “good genes” will probably not amount to much if you don’t choose someone who will also be a solid father. But your description of the babies as “yours”, combined with your non-mention of fatherhood, seems to preclude that.

    May your eggs wither and rot, unfertilized. Have a nice day.

    Like


  46. “Do realize that those “good genes” will probably not amount to much if you don’t choose someone who will also be a solid father. But your description of the babies as “yours”, combined with your non-mention of fatherhood, seems to preclude that.”

    Show me the evidence of this? Where is your data?

    All the data says is that children from fatherless homes tend to end up badly only when they are the product of illigitimacy or divorce. Being widowed doesn’t have a deletrious effect.

    Genetics uber alles people. So long as the father isn’t absent because of irresponsible personality traits, the child is as likely to be fine as any other.

    Solid fathers seem to correlate with better offspring because men are solid fathers because they have better future time orientation, better follow through, higher intelligence etc. The child inherits these dispositions which makes the child successful as well. So long as I get “solid father” genes, the solid fathering is merely optional. I prefer having a father in the picture for reasons of financial convenience and marginal environmental stimulation for the child.

    Don’t hate. My mentality is what marriage was invented for. You want love? Get a dog.

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  47. Jamila

    Am I the only one here that is starting to think that either Roissy currently has a girlfriend or is atleast seriously dating someone because his posts as of recently have been way more philosophical and/or pop culture based instead of hard-core “get in her panties” techniques?

    I thought so months ago, and said so then. Certainly by the time of his LRT game week postings. Actually Roissy hinted that he might be getting really into a particular girl a bit before then, but then wasn’t so explicit since. Maybe it was in his weekend away with a girl you’re really digging post. Was in the summer IIRC.

    Roissy, get back to telling these men advice on how to get women. Its what your good at and its what they need.

    Nah. I like both kinds of posts. Actually this kind are what are unique about him. There are other teachers of the art game. A lot of bad ones but some other good ones too. Roissy’s the consistent best at the underlying theory and philosophy of game, grounded in Evo Psych. Though these guys are pretty darn good too (as is chuck often, see the link embedded in his name):

    http://alpha-status.blogspot.com/2009/12/indirect-effects-of-mass-betaization-on.html

    Like


  48. “Judging by your blog, you’re attractive, intelligent and unusually intellectual. There are plenty of alpha-esque guys who meet your criteria who are interested in women that can actually carry on a conversation about something other than shoes or purses.

    Thanks. Good conversation is preferred but a non necessity.

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  49. So long as the father isn’t absent because of irresponsible personality traits, the child is as likely to be fine as any other.

    Um. right. So if the father is responsible, but the kids are wrested from him by a power-grabbing mother who does everything she can to alienate them from him, then they’ll be “as likely to be fine as any other”?

    It’s too bad all you lost in that robbery was your computer.
    Die.

    Like


  50. on December 2, 2009 at 4:35 pm Seeking Alpha

    May your eggs wither and rot, unfertilized.

    I found my new e-mail signature.

    Like


  51. I agree this is one of Roissy’s best posts, and one of the most real.

    Women want someone with both the lover and stable provider qualities. (Great way to describe it @Ferdinand Bardamu) This seems to be ideal for long-term happiness – he’s manly and fun AND he won’t crushingly break your heart. He’ll be there for you when your sister dies, and he can also incite animalistic passion in you.

    The ideal lover thinks of all the fantastic shit he will buy for himself before he thinks of others. His time shopping is spent with a joyous grin perusing the electronics section, and only after he has sat in the massage chair at Brookstones for a while does he put in a token effort to find reasonably acceptable gifts for his girlfriend.

    I’ve seen this, and usually thought it was because most guys are clueless about what gift to get for a girl – so they engage in good old procrastination? And then they’re finally like f* it, I’ll just get whatever and not worry about it.

    Real life story: One surprise gift is roses with a cute card and love poem. Next surprise gift is tix to see his favorite sports team… with custom-made jersey. lol. Done by the same guy, both times with plenty of hint-dropping leading up to the big surprise. Too funny… I didn’t mind alternating between gifts for her with gifts for him-and-her-but-more-for-him. As along as they ALL aren’t framed as being for her, when they’re more about him wanting to share his passion for something with her.

    The great boyfriend understands that much of what makes a relationship successful are shared goals and interests. He loves spending time with his lover doing things they both enjoy, and he will put in the extra effort to learn about those things she likes to do but which he is either unfamiliar or uninterested….

    The ideal lover understands that what makes a relationship successful is not spending too much time together….He will occasionally treat his lover to romantic nights out, but when she wants him to join her on her trip to Antartica he’ll stroke her cheek lovingly and tell her to have a good time by herself.

    I think both sides should try to share in or support at least a few of the other’s’ interests. Quality over quantity for sure… I don’t think an ideal boyfriend has to be so doormat-ty like laid out.

    @MNL

    “A woman wants a man who is INDEPENDENT enough that he can easily be away from his woman. She also wants a man DEPENDENT enough such that he can’t ever be away from his woman. Your challenge, son, is that women want this feature in the very same man and are too illogical to realize this is a problem.”

    I wonder if this is also part of what makes the “Reformed Bad Boy” or “Tamed Bad Boy” so attractive. Or the “Heroic Bad Boy,” who is a [email protected]$$ but does so for a good cause. These types have a mix of independence and dependence to them.

    Like


  52. Oh no, my quotes are all messed up. Sorry there.

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  53. “Um. right. So if the father is responsible, but the kids are wrested from him by a power-grabbing mother who does everything she can to alienate them from him, then they’ll be “as likely to be fine as any other”?”

    If he power grabbing desire to alienate comes from negative personality traits which manifest in other deletrious ways and then the children inherit them, then they will be disadvantaged. If the children happen not to inherit them, they’ll be fine.

    You want the studies? Cause I can show them to you. There are plenty that support that interpretation.

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  54. Being the ideal boyfriend means that you would actually have to enjoy the platonic company of women, which I don’t. Women are the most banal creatures on the planet…there is nothing so interesting about them that should make you kowtow like the “ideal” boyfriend in this post. Sure, you could feign interest, but who has the patience or the acting ability for that? Pretending to care about a girl’s interests, activities, or beliefs in hopes of stimulating your sexual relationship with them is incredibly beta.

    Re: The CNN and other popular media posts, the minute we began giving these binty bitches an outlet from which to spew their vapid views on “modern love” or gender relations is the minute we gave them undue relevance. Women are followers, and they seriously subscribe to and believe in whatever US Weekly, Cosmo, or CNN: Relationships tells them about what they should be feeling and doing. Why we give every fucking loony a quasi-legitimate platform from which to promote their nonsense is beyond me.

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  55. http://arthurshall.com/x_2009_babynames.shtml

    FemX probably plans on naming her bastard son “Brayden.”

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  56. I agree with a lot of the commentry above suggesting that the “perfect boyfriend” descriptions are very wussy, to the point of caricature. but then again so are the perfect lover ones, in the opposite way. they’re extremes, and most men are somewhere along the continuum in between. anouk may be right that the greater beta/lesser alpha juncture is where the best balance is.

    @PA:

    The Skittles Man ideal should be read as a corrective to today’s pedestalizing beta male, or as a way of handling she-lawyers for pump & dumps, not as an LTR Game template.

    Too much asshoel game will get a girl to leave you eventually, unless she’s a headcase.

    this is my take and objection to asshole game, in a nutshell. well put. esp. the “unless she’s a headcase” part – women that gravitate to assholes over and over again are damaged, and not worth anything more than a fling or a fuck.

    Every alpha has to have a little beta in him, to smooth his edges and keep him charming and civilized.

    Like


  57. on December 2, 2009 at 5:47 pm Wendy Schwartz

    Omg, you guys it’s really not that hard!!!!

    1. Don’t be a pussy and act clingy, ridiculous, jealous, or dependent

    2. Don’t be a dick and forget to open doors and pull the car up front

    3. Be attractive, in good shape, and well-groomed

    4. Be intelligent/witty/clever/funny

    5. Be good in bed

    6. Carry the heavy shit, take out the trash, and be aware that it’s your duty to do it.

    Seriously, that’s pretty much all you need to do. You are not going to land an “intelligent & hot” woman if you cannot engage her in “intelligent & hot” conversation. That much I can guarantee. I don’t care WHAT you guys believe in your minds (that women only care about status/wealth)……if you cannot intellectually engage a woman your chances of getting one are slim (unless you are willing to settle for a less-intelligent girl who is more likely to be flaky, emotional, or clingy).

    Like


  58. The last paragraph is a masterwork.

    A couple of comments:

    The ideal lover thinks of all the fantastic shit he will buy for himself before he thinks of others. His time shopping is spent with a joyous grin perusing the electronics section

    It seems to me that a more-than-passing interest in electronic gadgets is on the beta side of things. But maybe I’m too country.

    The only reason I’d normally come within twenty feet of an electronics aisle is … to get a gift for my woman.

    when she wants him to join her on her trip to Antartica he’ll stroke her cheek lovingly and tell her to have a good time by herself.

    Nice goalpost shifting. Because you know damn well that the ideal lover will also go to the tango classes, you polarized this example. (heh! polar!)

    The ideal lover will attempt to take his girl’s mind off her worries with hot sex. It will usually work.

    How else would you distract her?

    It’s either that, or leave her the hell alone and lift some heavy things.

    Like


  59. @san

    I read that link, I don’t get what the complaint is about the female journalist explaining that when she says “I have a boyfriend,” at least one guy didn’t t seem to think she’s taken and asks her out any way?

    I think she makes a decent point about how having a ring seems to symbolize a deeper commitment than just saying “I have a boyfriend.” But, maybe if she had said, “I’m married” the same guy would have tried to ask her out any way as well. Maybe some guys are really debauched and don’t care about respecting a bro’s h0…

    @Jason

    That CNN link was interesting. I understand how she’s in conflict, “…when I’m with him, I’m just not that into him. When I’m bored and daydreaming the day away (which is often), I am soooo into John.” She really wants to like him, but she just doesn’t feel the tingles. I think a lot of girls trying to pick the right guy go through this. He needs to add some @$$hole into the mix of his Game – or at the least start playing it cool a little more, tone down the full-on pursuit. Girls need to feel the love in their heart (emotional connection… attachment), mind (I trust he’s responsible and we’re compatible otherwise) and special place (I want to make babies with him… LOTS of babies) – all three.

    Like


  60. on December 2, 2009 at 4:56 pm Stud Dynamite

    @Ferdinand,

    the Lover/Provider complex, similar to the male Madonna/Whore complex

    cool name and yes, I think it something to be rid of just like Madonna/Whore. Really it comes down to Game basics, DeAngelo covered it pretty good – if you offer providership, you imply you don’t have anything else to offer.

    And those marriage values bitching beta truly are pathetic. I can at least relate to trusting, blue pill / nice guy beta variety. If I fail at game I’d rather go David Alexander or more practically go for real ho’s that coerce some pussy into providing for her.

    My biggest issue with a relationship game though – what if I don’t want to be a skittles man? I’m not into sitting at home and jerking at my “fantasy league” team. If my girl pisses me off and I, for example, have to ignore her and not sex her and not take her out for drinks and food and pool and all other shit *I enjoy just as much if not more* – I suffer just as much. The only alternative I see is going out with another girl and it’s not always feasible in a live-together situation. Perhaps Don Draper style disappearing is something to try.

    Like


  61. on December 2, 2009 at 4:57 pm Stud Dynamite

    damn it, I suck at wordpress.

    Like


  62. Max Weber taught social scientists to use “ideal types” which are pure examples of whatever is being studied even though in reality there is no such thing. These extreme examples allow the issue to seen in isolation and understood better. An economic model of a market with zero transaction costs and perfect information is one such unrealistic ideal type, which is useful as a starting point. Once you have the ideal type, you build back in the real world detail.

    The contrasting examples here are ideal types. Most actual, existing men are some combination of both. But seeing the two poles in isolation is helpful.

    If you are too far to one side or the other, do a course correction.

    I can see why some readers want exclusively straightforward game advice.

    But posts like this are thought-provoking, and can be found nowhere else.

    I look forward to the book, which may well be a cultural bombshell.

    Like


  63. on December 2, 2009 at 5:02 pm Steve Johnson

    lsb:

    I think she makes a decent point about how having a ring seems to symbolize a deeper commitment than just saying “I have a boyfriend.” But, maybe if she had said, “I’m married” the same guy would have tried to ask her out any way as well. Maybe some guys are really debauched and don’t care about respecting a bro’s h0…

    It’s actually because women have devalued the “I have a boyfriend” line.

    They use it when they don’t have an actual boyfriend.
    They use it in a mistaken attempt to increase a guy’s interest (if he thinks I’m taken, he’ll think I’m more attractive).
    They use it when they do have a boyfriend but are willing to be persuaded to cheat.
    They use when they are planning on cheating so they don’t feel guilty about it.
    They use the line when it’s true but they’re entertaining other offers and will dump the guy in short order for a new guy.

    Any guy who takes “I have a boyfriend” for “stop talking to me” is a chump.

    Like


  64. If he power grabbing desire to alienate comes from negative personality traits which manifest in other deletrious ways and then the children inherit them, then they will be disadvantaged. If the children happen not to inherit them, they’ll be fine.

    You want the studies? Cause I can show them to you. There are plenty that support that interpretation.

    Your purported certainty here is stupid. I’ve seen the studies, and they obviously prove no such thing, since our understanding of inherited personality traits is nowhere near this granular.

    The studies just show that some parentally alienated kids are “fine”, and others aren’t. People like you will then backward-rationalize this, saying, “oh, well, the ones who are fine must have won the genetic lottery, and the ones who aren’t must not have.”
    People with common sense, on the other hand, will instinctively recognize that paternal (paternal, not just “parental”) control is important, and that the lack thereof is a huge risk factor. Like other risk factors, it will not lead to negative effects in 100% of all cases, but it would be foolish to ignore.

    But, then again, you also think that sports is pointless, and that athletic discipline and teamwork (especially among disparate personality types, such as in football) are also irrelevant to fostering mature masculinity. Given your bias, then, it’s not surprising that you denigrate the importance of fatherhood.

    Also, it’s important to note that these studies set an awfully low bar for “being fine”. In most of them, the kid is “fine” if s/he manages to stay out of juvenile hall and doesn’t drop out of school. No importance is attached to the dysfuncitonal personalities that are created by parental alienation.

    Trust me on this one, I’m right and you’re wrong. My life’s work has been with teenagers, of all stripes, in a staggering variety of contexts.
    Kids need solid fathers.

    Being widowed doesn’t have a deletrious effect

    Widows, especially military widows (who make up a disproportionate % of widows young enough to have kids at home), tend to be more likely to find other male role models for their children. Because they recognize the importance of the male guidance that has been lost. They don’t carry irrational chips on their shoulder as you do.

    Like


  65. It seems to me that a more-than-passing interest in electronic gadgets is on the beta side of things. But maybe I’m too country.

    Mmmhmm.

    The only reason I’d normally come within twenty feet of an electronics aisle is … to get a gift for my woman.

    Haha…yeah, SRSLY. This is what I thought when I first read that, too.

    All in all, I agree with the posters who are saying that the “ideal lover” and “perfect boyfriend” characterizations are extremes. However, this means that the “perfect/ideal” whatever would be, yes, somewhere in between…and thus, the labeling is a bit off.

    They are neither “ideal” nor “perfect” — Ferdinand’s “lover/provider” labeling works much better.

    Like


  66. Any guy who takes “I have a boyfriend” for “stop talking to me” is a chump.

    You’re neglecting the important variable, which is the amount of time and seduction elapsed before she tells you this.

    If she tells you after a drink, a wink, and a finger in the pink, then you’re absolutely correct.

    If she tells you up front, then she probably means it. Although you could still (egad!) actually have a conversation with her, if she’s interesting.

    Like


  67. Thursday,

    I’d hold out on the psychological femininity for men…

    In fact, as I showed in the comments in that thread, in regards to personality, men don’t really affect marital satisfaction that much. The study even accounted for assortment effects.

    And as for femininity in men as being a positive I skimmed over a literature review a while back that could reverse that line of thought.

    Perhaps, when I have the time I’ll go through all the papers I’ve found, and write a summary.

    Like


  68. Any guy who takes “I have a boyfriend” for “stop talking to me” is a chump.

    It depends on when and how they use it. If you walk up to a girl and she says “I have a boyfriend,” either she has a boyfriend or she doesn’t want to talk to you. If you persist, and she insists she has a boyfriend, and then starts beating you with her purse, she probably has a boyfriend. That’s all.

    Beyonce’s “Single Ladies” is the greatest piece of music ever written, composed, or even hummed. All other “artists” (as they call themselves), should simply STOP MAKING MUSIC, because they will never top such an amazing song.

    Like


  69. feministx–

    @Epoxy–“Um. right. So if the father is responsible, but the kids are wrested from him by a power-grabbing mother who does everything she can to alienate them from him, then they’ll be “as likely to be fine as any other”?”

    If he[r] power grabbing desire to alienate comes from negative personality traits which manifest in other deletrious ways and then the children inherit them, then they will be disadvantaged. If the children happen not to inherit them, they’ll be fine.

    What an absurd answer. You’ve just confirmed your essential agreement with Epoxy’s point, which was that irresponsible male behavior or power grabbing man hatting and essentially forcing him away from the home, are BOTH bad. Yes genetics matter and yes there’s always some roulette wheel as to which ancestors traits are inherited, the immediate parent or further back, but the genetics of both parents matter, and when men aren’t in the home it’s today as likely or more likely to be the woman’s fault than the man’s.

    Oh and yes, i’d like to see the studies backing up your assertions on widowhood (where the woman didn’t remarry and it occurred at a reasonably young age for the children) has no correlation with bad child outcomes the way that divorce or single motherhood do. Sample sizes?

    As well I strong suspect studies making this point. Feminists have a long history of lying including in their reporting of scientific “findings”, and in the findings themselves. Yes they’re worse. Way worse.

    Like


  70. The ideal lover is either fighting or drinking with his family.

    Must be a lot of lovers in my family…

    Like


  71. Epoxytocin:

    OTOH, if she nervously blurts out “blah blah BOYFRIEND blah blah” within 30 seconds of meeting you… and you had barely noticed her, it means you inadvertently gave her the tingles.

    Like


  72. LILGRL–

    Beyonce’s “Single Ladies” is the greatest piece of music ever written, composed, or even hummed.

    Marriage Nazi!

    You can understand why American guys faced with divorce theft, American style, made possible only by “putting a ring on it” are less enthused, at least if they’re at all clued in about the reality of divorce in America today.

    Like


  73. 1) Be an alpha
    2) Have good genes
    3) Pass genes onto my babies
    4) Contribute reliably to the mortgage

    The trouble comes as soon as one transitions between points #3 and #4. For most women, point #4 is achieved only at the expense of point #1.

    That is, for most women, once she’s carrying/raising a man’s genes–or wants to carry his genes, she naturally begins to do everything she can to ensure the “reliability” aspect of #4 above. She cajoles, nudges, postures, arranges, controls, sweats, and schemes… with everything at her disposal to place the man in a provider role–to contribute reliably to the mortgage instead of partying or spending his resources elsewhere–especially on or with other women.

    The woman’s pursuit of #4 may even include the step of molding or positioning the man such that he’s actually made LESS attractive to other women. This might be as subtle as challenging his self-esteem, making herself hard to please, making him feel guilty, switching her mind and emotional state often, keeping him busy or tired with household tasks. Or, it may be more overt and take the form of dressing or grooming the man in ways that make him less interesting, that effectively take him off the market. This is called the process of beta-izatoin. For the most part, this process happens unconsciously on the part of the woman.

    Sadly, the more successful the woman is in the above, in accomplishing goal #4, the man gradually becomes less and less the image of goal #1. Then, the woman wakes up one morning–usually after her child’s most formative years–and realizes she’s dissatisfied with her man. She may even find herself revolted by him. The thrill, the dash, the excitement is gone from the relationship. She resents her man for becoming the stable (i.e., boring) provider that he’s now become. Strangely, this state of affairs is interpreted by the woman as entirely the man’s fault. Whereas in fact, she resents her man for becoming precisely what she intended. Oh, the irony!

    The LTR challenge (mostly for the man but also for the enlightened woman) is to satisfy goal #4 without destroying goal #1. The man needs to combine the provider AND alpha roles. The man needs to show both elements of Roissy’s dichotomy. He needs to provide an emotionally secure environment for his bride–but not one so secure she can relax completely. She can’t be allowed to feel emotionally in charge. If he wants the relationship to last, he can’t let her entirely extinguish the mysterious, sexy, masculine, testosterone-driven male that he is at heart.

    Like


  74. Doug–

    That’s because they don’t recognize the incredible genius emanating from the song!!

    Like


  75. on December 2, 2009 at 5:24 pm Marcus Halberstram

    X,

    You want love? Get a dog.

    Most men look for caring partners, especially for the long-term. This attitude is probably unattractive to them (it is to me). Does being a loving wife translate into being a loving mother? I have no idea, but I would think so given that men seem to have evolved to select for the former.

    Like


  76. on December 2, 2009 at 5:30 pm Usually Lurking

    All I want:

    1) Be an alpha Alpha
    2) Have good genes Alpha
    3) Pass genes onto my babies Alpha
    4) Contribute reliably to the mortgage BETA

    Why does it have to be so hard?

    Because Bad Boys are not Providers and vice versa.

    You want an Alpha that will, ultimately, act like a Beta:

    Johnny Alpha: Hi Feministx, my dear. I just got back from the drafting room where I designed yet another bridge. This particular suspension bridge will actually cost less than previous ones yet be able to withstand greater wind velocities and earthquake tremors. I am so glad that I stayed up all those nights studying so that I had the knowledge and skill to do such a thing.

    I was going to hit the bar with the boys and watch the chicks (who are younger and prettier than you) flock to me with my indifferent attitude and bad ass, alpha, ways. But, instead, I have decided to invest all of my money, time and effort into supporting you.

    FeminstX: Sounds great!

    This is not going to happen.

    What is supposed to happen is that you are supposed to want the Betas and treat them like Alphas. Because they are the ones who build the bridges and cure the diseases.

    They are the man of the house. The town fathers. The leaders of society.

    Instead, you want the Bad Boys. So, instead of having Bad Boys curb their behavior so that the Town Fathers don’t throw their ass in jail (or prevent them from getting good jobs, or denying them access to their daughters, or whatever), we actually have them showing everyone else the way. The Bridge Builders and Dialysis Machine Designers pay them thousands of dollars to hang out for a weekend and show them how to get blowjobs.

    In short, you are what is wrong with society.

    Like


  77. The perfect man is 70% beta and 30% alpha.

    Stud dynamite- blockquote is the work of the devil.

    Like


  78. LOOK I HAS OVARIES: “So long as I get “solid father” genes, the solid fathering is merely optional. I prefer having a father in the picture for reasons of financial convenience and marginal environmental stimulation for the child.”

    Man, you really are trash. It will be fun to watch you post turkey-baster (whether or not an actual human sticks his genetic batter in your hoo-ha; he’s a turkey) when your biological clock stops screaming and you tire of your hobby of having a kid.

    Like


  79. Epoxytocin 69 to femx It’s too bad all you lost in that robbery was your computer.
    Die.

    How said is it that your inside doesn’t match your outside epoxy.

    Like


  80. @Usually lurking

    4) Contribute reliably to the mortgage BETA

    Why is having a sense of responsibility toward your family and community, along with a good credit rating, anti-thetical to being an alpha?

    Alphas don’t pay their bills on time or something?

    Like


  81. @LilGRL

    Beyonce’s “Single Ladies” is the greatest piece of music ever written, composed, or even hummed. All other “artists” (as they call themselves), should simply STOP MAKING MUSIC, because they will never top such an amazing song.

    I love that song too. Particularly since it was written by a man, The Dream, who is himself currently married and expecting his fourth child (although he’s had them with several different women).

    Like


  82. Jamila

    I love that song too. Particularly since it was written by a man, The Dream, who is himself currently married and expecting his fourth child (although he’s had them with several different women).

    wow – a guy with a regal, theatrical nickname like ‘The Dream; with four kids each by a different female. he sounds like he must be the typicial Finnish immigrant living in Utah. friggin mormons

    Like


  83. Jamila–

    Why is having a sense of responsibility toward your family and community, along with a good credit rating, anti-thetical to being an alpha?

    It’s not necessarily.

    What is anti-thetical to being an alpha is remainly long term completely faithful to a woman. Emotionally faithful, primarily, is very doable. Takes some doing but is doable.

    Sexual faithfulness requires a fair amount of betaization of any alpha. It’s just so against the grain. No, not right after falling really in love. But down the road it is. Definitely.

    One can find RARE exceptions, but they’re just that, RARE. Most of them have probably just been good at keeping their secrets, and had wives than weren’t too nuts about detecting, so long as she was getting the love. Yeah Paul Newman does appear to have been a true exception. A very rare true one.

    Like


  84. LILGRL

    Beyonce’s “Single Ladies” is the greatest piece of music ever written, composed, or even hummed.

    the song’s ok, but that video is a work of art. so I understand your admiration but show a little pity that not all girls are lucky enough to snag one.

    Like


  85. on December 2, 2009 at 6:29 pm Usually Lurking

    Jamila, it has nothing to do with what is good or bad. I am simply following this new definition of Alpha and Beta, Player and Provider.

    Players are not Providers.
    Providers are not Players.

    FeministX wants a Player that acts like a Provider.

    Like


  86. FP —

    You’re right, the video is an even greater work of art. Even better?

    Her video for Ego.

    Exactly the same, but with silver leotards.

    That takes some creativity.

    Like


  87. Roissy once wrote a post where he mentioned how he played with some niece or nephew at a some sort of family or holiday gathering. It was something mentioned only in passing, but, based on what he said above about playing with ones nieces or nephews, I wonder if that makes him more the great boyfriend rather than the ideal lover? Don’t let us down Roissy, there is already enough disillusionment in the world today.

    Tiger Woods….I think he got beat up by his wife. No matter how much money he has, that has to put him in a beta category.

    As far as this post, as Roissy mentioned you have to play your women like a good symphony. Appeal to both sides of the their feminine desires and longings.

    Master Casanova…Racer X are one and the same thing. I will pleasure a woman for hours on end with oral sex before fucking her brains out for the rest of the night like an out of control jackhammer. They love it, and me for it.

    Like


  88. @LilGrl:

    You plesbes don’t understand the intricacies and originality behind reusing old work. It’s not copying, it’s recycling! It’s part of conservation and saving the planet. Gosh.

    Like


  89. LG –

    i agree. ego displays her vast creativity on a different canvas. then, again, a man doesn’t want a hot girl for her talent or mind. it’s a burden the girls just have to bear

    Like


  90. Newman’s point was that his wife (when both were at their sexual peaks) was a far more beautiful, intelligent, and exciting woman than any fling. When he was older, the idea of making a fool out of himself was not appealing.

    The key of course for Alphas is to marry a woman like Joanne Woodward. Not someone like Linda Hogan. If nothing else, think of any possible kids. Would Nick and Brooke Hogan make you proud as a father?

    Like


  91. on December 2, 2009 at 6:52 pm Doyourownresearch

    “Beyonce’s “Single Ladies” is the greatest piece of music ever written, composed, or even hummed. All other “artists” (as they call themselves), should simply STOP MAKING MUSIC, because they will never top such an amazing song.”

    See fellas, this is what you will be facing…this mentality. You ever heard of the PMS, Princess Mentality Syndrome.

    She has emotional feelings for the words written in this song. Loser. Lilgrl, it’s time to be a big girl. Guys out there, do not breed with this type of stock.

    Like


  92. Autism speaks!

    Like


  93. Whiskey–

    When he was older, the idea of making a fool out of himself was not appealing.

    Few cultures have regarded high status alpha males in their e.g. 40s having an affair with a younger hot woman as “making a fool of themselves”. Very few.

    That is the effort of feminist America, and strict Protestant culture beforehand.

    It wasn’t e.g. the view of even supremely pedestaling Victorian Britain. It was seen as a necessary evil for many particularly vigorous and full of animal spirits men. The sort of men necessary and certainly advantageous in winning and defending an Empire.

    Like


  94. Types, you mean.

    Like


  95. Doyourownresearch

    See fellas, this is what you will be facing…this mentality. You ever heard of the PMS, Princess Mentality Syndrome.

    She has emotional feelings for the words written in this song. Loser. Lilgrl, it’s time to be a big girl. Guys out there, do not breed with this type of stock.

    i’ll take the advice on breeding, but its easy bc azns aren’t my cup of tea. but I will do my own research on satire, irony wit, and half wit

    Like


  96. on December 2, 2009 at 8:00 pm Marcus Halberstram

    You guys take this Alpha/Beta (false?) dichotomy way too seriously. Alpha and beta qualities are not mutually exclusive; I think you’re making a classic Bayesian error.

    Most real Alphas – and I’m not talking about people who act Alpha at nightclubs, parties and on the Internet – are also providers. They are CEOs, Presidents and other leaders of men. They take real risks and succeed because they have the right stuff, not because they mimic Alpha body language or act like a jerk.

    I don’t mean to rag on game here; after all, game doesn’t promise to make anyone a CEO (though it may help at this, since even the most talented individual needs to signal his talent to get anywhere), it promises to get them laid. Its a lot easier to get laid with game than it is by actually accomplishing something impressive to the female gender.

    Of course if you’re trying to signal your Alphaness, one way to do so is with a lack of Beta qualities. Acting anti-Beta is correlated with being Alpha, but acting Alpha is not correlated with being anti-Beta. This is non-intuitive because most people don’t follow Bayesian reasoning very well (evolution does, however).

    e.g., given person X:
    P( X has Alpha qualities | X not showing Beta qualities ) >
    P( X has no Beta qualities | X shows Alpha qualities )

    Like


  97. An ideal woman is “chaste” in her day to day life , but a whore in the bedroom.
    To enable and facilitate this her man must be an Alpha at his core but also have Boyfriend type charactersitics as well.

    A well known Melbourne (Australia) radio “celebrity” has the ideal setup , he is 65 , married to a younger woman (in her 40’s and kinda milf looking) and they live in seperate apartments in the same building.

    Like


  98. on December 2, 2009 at 8:05 pm Marcus Halberstram

    I made a mistake in the above post. I probably should have replaced “Beta” with “Provider”. Obviously there are behaviors (begging, pleading, other things that the male does to lower his status next to the female) associated with the term ‘Beta’ that don’t signal anything good. You can signal your ability to be a good Provider without being a wimp, after all.

    Like


  99. please.

    beyonce is a huge fraud. she doesnt even write most of her songs. same as rihanna. and all other pop bitches.

    Like


  100. collegeboy–

    beyonce is a huge fraud. she doesnt even write most of her songs. same as rihanna. and all other pop bitches.

    Very few women songstresses do. Carly Simon was a big exception, and not a very good looking one, tellingly enough.

    Certainly a lot of male performers don’t either, but a MUCH higher percentage do.

    Like


  101. Marcus

    Of course if you’re trying to signal your Alphaness, one way to do so is with a lack of Beta qualities. Acting anti-Beta is correlated with being Alpha, but acting Alpha is not correlated with being anti-Beta.

    I broadly agree with your point, and have said similar things here for a long time.

    However, what I put in bold is wrong. It IS correlated. Just not nearly as strongly as the former is.

    I also think it’s true that the absolute pinnacle alpha in sexual thrills is almost never also a good provider. Though super alphas can be, yes.

    The pinnacle alpha in sexual thrills is a D/s Svengali with high overall status (not necessarily the highest, particularly not necessarily the highest among men), vitality, good enough equipment and huge drive.

    Svengali stands for game, to the N’th degree.

    Like


  102. pupu’s recent diet must have caused a chemical change in her.

    is pupu the only one who fines the ideal boyfriend quite ideal?

    Like


  103. pupu meant to say that she finds the great boyfriend great.

    Like


  104. Being both isn’t difficult.

    The secret is: Have high status, but act beta around her in public (think paper alpha). Then, completely dominate her at home and in bed.

    Carry her bags to the door, but once inside, dump them on the ground and push her against the wall.

    Some onlookers will wonder what she sees in him, but the status will alleviate that.

    The family relationships, gift giving, that shit? That’s just further expression of the dark triad traits. They’ll intrigue women but aren’t necessary.

    Like


  105. Challenge —

    The secret is: Have high status, but act beta around her in public (think paper alpha). Then, completely dominate her at home and in bed.

    Carry her bags to the door, but once inside, dump them on the ground and push her against the wall.

    Some onlookers will wonder what she sees in him, but the status will alleviate that.

    Okay, sorry, but this would just be so freaking weird.

    Like


  106. **Not the “carry her bags to the door…” part, but the “act beta around her in public…then, completely dominate her at home and in bed.”

    Like


  107. Epoxy owned Phlegm-x so hard she didn’t even notice

    Like


  108. lover/provider as terms don’t work for me b/c except in the loosest physical definition, a lover is one who willingly enters an emotional web of expectation and tenderness, one which your typical player actively works to avoid. Love is usually monogamous, while this “lover” archetype typically eschews monogamy.

    Cad/dad sums it up much better and is more analogous with madonna/whore

    Like


  109. That guy that women call “Mr Wrong”.

    He’s the gina tingler

    Like


  110. on December 2, 2009 at 9:39 pm unlearning genius ...

    @Roissy,

    The quintessential essence of all masterful human power games .. unpredictibility. That is what you are suggesting here. span the gamut from profound to mundane, banal to surreal, metaphysical to practical, cunning to naive .. in a random way. People will tire of finding a pattern and they will submit … Just a touch of irrationality .. just a tiny probability of you blowing the cannon .. too much.. and you are just another guy walking around with his dick all the time .. too little .. and you are just another pushower pussy

    Like


  111. @collegeboy:

    Sarcasm, m’dear.

    Like


  112. Conor Betasdork wrote a short response to this.

    Like


  113. @T-1000

    My real name is Braden. [Notice there’s no ‘y’, that’s for pussies and biters] My name is my best opener. You can see the gina tingle in their eyes when I tell them what is. I get complimented by HBs daily on it. So how’s that first name working out for you?

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  114. Cuntrag Mandy Xd! I’m sure you were being sarcastic when you said how much you love Castro, right, whore?

    Like


  115. I find it sad that most people here think that the good qualities of both can’t co-exist. That every man is either beta or alpha. I’ve found men who have qualities of both. In fact, any man I chose as a mate would need both.

    Like


  116. Be a good boyfriend to your girlfriend (or wife); be a good lover to all the other girls you’re banging…

    Like


  117. Re. CNN boyfriend article.

    best “I have a boyfriend” comment;

    “we have to do anal, I don’t want to cheat on my boyfriend”

    WTF

    Like


  118. What about country music singers? They sing about love and devotion while at the same time I think that if you looked at them the wrong way they’ll run you over with their truck. I say that’s a healthy mixture of boyfriend and lover.

    Like


  119. “Genetics uber alles people. So long as the father isn’t absent because of irresponsible personality traits, the child is as likely to be fine as any other.”

    Calculating what kind of man you need to father your kids is a pretty ridiculous exercise.

    1) Genetics is a lottery. Two people with 130 IQ can easily produce a 115 IQ, regressed-to-the-mean kid.

    2) The interaction between genetics and environment is likely so intricate that blithely dismissing important developmental factors is the height of irresponsibility.

    Which brings me to my central point — we are finely tuned sociobiological machines. I suspect the best genetic outcomes result from matches with maximum mutual lust, regardless of IQ matching and other “objective” factors.

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  120. Hm. Based on the descriptions I am generally the Ideal Lover. However, I’m especially good at tuning in to her needs and personally I get off on on *her* getting off. I can’t think of a single time a woman has denied me sex. This pre-dates my learning about the seduction community.

    The other night I rocked a girl’s world in bed, but only after using dominance to create attraction.

    Like


  121. […] Roissy – “The Ideal Lover Can Never Be the Great Boyfriend” […]

    Like


  122. LILGRL

    Okay, sorry, but this would just be so freaking weird.

    Much agreed. Bad Game too. Almost the exact opposite of what should be done. If you are trying to throw some Beta into your Game for purposes of LTR then seriously don’t let it out in public. Being able to keep your composure; your Alpha status in the world at large is what it is all about.

    There isn’t anything distinctly Alpha about wanting to fuck your girlfriend as soon as you walk in the door for that matter. You don’t remove the stink of Beta by getting really horny.

    Jagal

    What about country music singers? They sing about love and devotion while at the same time I think that if you looked at them the wrong way they’ll run you over with their truck. I say that’s a healthy mixture of boyfriend and lover.

    From my experience Country and Rock musicians are hardcore Betas. There are obvious exceptions but there always are.

    They also aren’t going to run over anybody with anything. They probably haven’t been in danger of a serious physical confrontation since Highschool, and probably not even then. They are bigger frauds than most rappers, when it comes to their macho credentials. It’s an act. Most aren’t real Rednecks. They are SWPLs with southern accents.

    Their heartbroken, sappy bullshit is genuine though. They are guys who went from AFCs to having sexual abundance greater than that of most Naturals over night. They don’t get that their girlfriends dry up the moment they put down their guitars. They have the relationship skills and emotional maturity of 17 year old boys; which is about the time a lot of them started performing or just talking about music as their hobby and started pulling chicks on that merit alone, whose loyalty and respect they can’t command after the fact.

    In reality the ‘mix’ is just that the Alpha or Greater Beta needs to have good manners. He gets the door for his girl; but he doesn’t do it to impress her. He can’t explain why he does it either. He guesses that he was just raised that way. How mysterious.

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  123. “men who intuitively know when to disarm with the tender ministrations of the great boyfriend or the lustful recklessness of the ideal lover”

    Or you could study the menstrual cycle, figure out how to track its progress in a particular woman and adjust your behaviour based on that.

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  124. Also, for the record, I do hate Betas. At least the simpering, doting White Knights. Go fuck yourselves. In a just society we would have found a way to identify you at birth and have left your crying infant carcass on a rock for the vultures.

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  125. Everything a man needs to prove, with conviction, is that he has a hot, loving and compassionate core. The rest is for the women to kill ourselves trying to tap into that geothermal energy. Life is short. Believes can go a long, if not the entire, way.

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  126. Three words: Captain Augustus McCrae.

    If you’re looking for your Mozart, there is your Mozart.

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  127. on December 3, 2009 at 6:39 am Neil from Brazil

    Checking…

    Shopping: Great boyfriend.

    All the rest: Ideal Lover.

    On the birth certificate says… Latin. Lover by option.

    Like


  128. Sooner or later even dullards realize that women are just not worth so much effort or concern. Let’s face it. Women are almost all a crashing bore, except in one department.

    Our society gives women the expectation that they should have both the “perfect lover” and “perfect boyfriend.” Imagine the man who thinks the same girl should be the perfect wife, mother, and companion and an extremely hot and oversexed babe. Or, he thinks the will have both types of girls available, depending on his mood.

    Use them and lose them. Doesn’t matter if they were impressed or not in bed with you or were impressed with your good table manners. It is your pleasure, and not just with women, that is paramount.

    Whether you paid up front (cheap) or paid on the backend (expensive) is only an accounting detail. Time is money, too.

    I feel sorry for the “perfect lover”, who seems to love only himself. I feel sorry for the “perfect boyfriend”, who is ripe for exploitation. But, obviously, the “perfect lover” is the way to go. The “perfect lover” has time for a life entirely separate from his seductions of women, whereas the “perfect boyfriend” has no time for his own life. And, his beloved will likely destroy his happiness.

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  129. It’s an act. Most [Country singers] aren’t real Rednecks. They are SWPLs with southern accents.

    Probably true. See Kenny Rogers’ douchebag facelift.

    If the biopic “Walk the Line” is close to a representation of the truth, pre-Christian conversion Johnny Cash was a big pussy. Though it’s possible that Joaquim Phoenix overdid on the wuss in portraying him.

    In the movie at least, it was Johnny’s older brother, one who died in a childhood accident, that seemed to be made of Alpha stuff. And his dad too, big time Redneck man’s man. He made an epic speech to a drugged-out Johnny about how he wastes all his things.

    Really, as far as the dad’s concerned, all I really need for his alpha bona-fides is fat sac of quivering turd Roger Ebert, who called him a “useless Redneck” in the movie review.

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  130. I like this video of Single Ladies best.

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  131. @Firepower

    The Dream’s real name is Terius Nash. He’s one of the hottest producers and songwriters out there now. He also wrote Rihanna’s “Umbrella” and will soon be VP of some major record label. The kids were not all by four different women. He was married before and one or two of those kids was by his wife, by and large, he was married to the mother(s) of most of his children.

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  132. “From my experience Country and Rock musicians are hardcore Betas. There are obvious exceptions but there always are.”

    I’m familiar with a semi-known band in the hard rock genre, and they are betas as well. Yeah, it’s all an act, the lyrics about pulling ass notwithstanding.

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  133. on December 3, 2009 at 11:53 am Dat_truth_hurts

    No one cares about “the dream”. White people download music for free.

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  134. Jamila

    @Firepower

    The Dream’s real name is Terius Nash. ..The kids were not all by four different women. He was married before and one or two of those kids was by his wife, by and large, he was married to the mother(s) of most of his children.

    It took a while, so I assumed you were hiding, so thanks for answering. OK, with a name like terius, I do take back him being Finnish. It sounds Roman-Latin — or like that king guy in 300. “La’Darius” or something.

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  135. aoefe

    I like this video of Single Ladies best.

    pls tell me you realize your Boss lilgrl’s comments were a jest.
    even with the notoriously handicapped asian sense of humor surely you grasped her attempt.
    srlsy

    Like


  136. Damn, I’m definitely beta when it comes to sex :(. Girls love to talk and I’d hate to be known as the “1-minute man”. I’m heavily alpha in all other categories though :D.

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  137. Any man can act or be an Alpha when his woman is behaving herself.

    What sorts out and separates the real Alphas from the pretenders is what a man does when she isn’t behaving herself and is being petulant, petty, obnoxious, sulky, moody or whatever other adjective tests a man’s Alphaness mettle.

    That is when he either asserts himself and his true Alpha qualities or his facade withers or crumbles and is exposed.
    Every time this happens , his ranking as an Alpha in her eyes will them drop a notch until he either stands firm or is Betarised all the way to being an Omega and then all respect for him is gone.

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  138. I’m curious to know how many women would say that a man who “hurt her anally” without caring if she wanted that or was sexually satisfied was an ideal lover.

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  139. on December 2, 2009 at 5:47 pm Wendy Schwartz
    Omg, you guys it’s really not that hard!!!!

    “1. Don’t be a pussy and act clingy, ridiculous, jealous, or dependent

    2. Don’t be a dick and forget to open doors and pull the car up front

    3. Be attractive, in good shape, and well-groomed

    4. Be intelligent/witty/clever/funny

    5. Be good in bed

    6. Carry the heavy shit, take out the trash, and be aware that it’s your duty to do it.

    Seriously, that’s pretty much all you need to do. ”

    Thats it. Be a confident gentleman who is smart, funny, and good looking, but acts like an animal in bed and will be a beast of burden whenever required. Shit, sign me up. What do you offer? A smelly hole inbetween you legs that bleeds once a month and the ability to strip me of my children and assets. Maybe if I married you when you ware a 16 old virgin. Oh, wait, you weren’t a virgin at 16. Sorry, even with a time machine, the deal is off.

    And no women can engage me intellectually. Smart does not equal witty, although I happen to be both. We all know how girls swoon for the high IQ types. Nerds and scientist really get the gina tingling.

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  140. Jabberwocky

    on December 2, 2009 at 5:47 pm Wendy Schwartz
    Omg, you guys it’s really not that hard!!!!

    lr explicating on what she ‘wants from menfolk’ is hardly newsy. been played out here dozensanddozens o’ times

    now, what she recommends women do for their men

    that, could be intriguing.

    c’mon red
    fork it over

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  141. “on December 4, 2009 at 12:57 pm Firepower
    Jabberwocky

    on December 2, 2009 at 5:47 pm Wendy Schwartz
    Omg, you guys it’s really not that hard!!!!

    lr explicating on what she ‘wants from menfolk’ is hardly newsy. been played out here dozensanddozens o’ times”

    I’m a late comer to this party, so forgive my tardiness. I’ll try to catch up as quickly as possible, but I expect people will grow to love me just the same. They always do. Someone has to put the jabber in Jabberwocky, I just happen to also provide the wocky. The wocky is exactly what this party has been missing. I humbly accept any mentorship, I’m just not really a passive learner, so I plan to get into the mix right off the boat. Sink or swim time for me I guess.

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  142. “on December 4, 2009 at 10:30 am RTod

    I’m curious to know how many women would say that a man who “hurt her anally” without caring if she wanted that or was sexually satisfied was an ideal lover.”

    Women who desire Alphas. Women who need to be submissive in order to validate the dominance of their mate. Most women. (Although but sex is a bit extreme, it might be the ultimate shit test, pun intended. Many draw the line at anal, but those who can cross it are masters of the “game” for sure, and prove their Alpha status by crossing the proverbial Rubicon.

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  143. Any man can act or be an Alpha when his woman is behaving herself. […] That is when he either asserts himself and his true Alpha qualities or his facade withers or crumbles and is exposed.

    And that’s what shit tests are for.

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  144. on December 4, 2009 at 4:25 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    chic:

    Just saw this.

    How said is it that your inside doesn’t match your outside epoxy

    This is true of women much, much more than it is of men.

    Like


  145. on December 4, 2009 at 10:10 pm finsalscollons

    A question for Roissy.

    As Ferdinand says, a woman wants an oxymoron: “an alpha provider”.

    The way to test if a guy is an alpha is the famous “shit test”.

    The way to test if a guy is a provider is something I call the “commitment test”.

    It could be something like: “where is this relationship going?”, “do you love children?”, “I want you to meet my parents”, “being married must be great, huh?”. It is the constant pressure for men to move the relationship forward, to the next level. The test can be subtle (“Do you love dogs?”) or can be very obvious: “if you don’t commit, I will leave you”.

    It is the eternal process of the female to tame the alpha male: the start of the beta-ization.

    As famous as the shit test is, I think the “commitment test” is understudied.

    Please, Roissy can you post about that. I think it is a subject worthy of your insight. How do you handle the commitment test in the several scenarios: pump and dump, affairs and LTRs?

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  146. You missed out the final part?

    The great boyfriend will eventually marry her.

    The ideal lover will eventually phase her out of the roster for fresher meat.

    She, on the other hand, will eventually tire of the great boyfriend(now her husband). She will pine for the ideal lover, and will screw around to recapture that nostalgia.

    @finsalscollons: Never give in to ultimatums issued by women. She threatens to leave? Reply with the three magic words offered by Tom Leykis: ‘There’s the door’.

    She threatens to kill herself? ‘Go ahead, I’m waiting’.

    Men must be firm and say no to emotional blackmail.

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  147. on December 5, 2009 at 2:46 pm finsalscollons

    Spunk, thank you for your help. I agree with you about ultimatums and I have done so for all my life. But ultimatums are not the hard part. The hard part is when the woman tries to probe your willingness to commit in a covert and subtle manner. How is one to answer that while maintaining their alpha status.

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  148. @spunk: What kind of woman threatens to kill herself if you don’t commit? Jeebus, that’s a no-brainer. DTMA, you dumbass.

    @finsalcollons: To avoid not just ultimatums but even women who will “probe your willingness to commit in a covert and subtle manner,” all you have to do is: Date women who are at least 2-3 rungs lower than you on the social scale. If you are a 6, date a 3. If you appear to be a “catch” to the woman you are dating, I guarantee she will not be shit-testing you. Conversely, if she is shit-testing you, that right there is proof that she entertains thoughts that she could do better. Maybe she can, maybe she can’t, in reality.

    However, to answer your question: The only way to maintain your “alpha status” while rejecting your woman’s attempts to probe your willingness to commit in a subtle manner is … tell her you don’t want to commit. At least not to her. What’s so hard about that? Oh, she might stop sleeping with you? You might come across as pretentious (and thus cause her to stop sleeping with you?) But you don’t want her to stop sleeping with you even though you don’t want to commit to her because figure a warm body in bed is better than none, and a better package might come in the mail someday? Well then, you’re not alpha and you have no alpha status to maintain.

    But that’s life. You can’t have everything. For sure you can’t have everything without willing to risk what you already do have.

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  149. You need to do a story on “Foxy Knoxy as Maneater”: A modern day witch has been caught.

    Many in the Liberal Press are dismissing this murder as ‘Railroading of an Innocent abroad’ like some Henry James novel…..or Anti-Americanism.

    A few censored NYT blog comments are accurately casting her as a Socio-Path unable to stop smiling at her kill, female and male.

    She is a tumor on American Womanhood and in her most benign form has exposed a rotting foundation that is spreading unchecked far and wide in the USA.

    As many know, the “Jr. Year Abroad” has been a genteel fixture of young ladies seeking mediteranean lust for generations going back to Jackie-O. Most went, studied a bit, and slept alot with older Professors, young playboys and just swarthy locals who made their squeaky clean red-necks back home look bland. Then after sowing said wild oats, they came back and settled back in the USA, with none the wiser.

    None of this matters, except when the socio-path enters. Her shakles thrown off, she destroys at will. Cloaked in the novelty of the exotic, uninhibited American, she is the Blackwidow as Butterfly.

    Beware, her Myspace page is the Miss Jekyl/Hyde, that many game-players here engage on a daily basis and ‘know’. These are the women who endear rage, wrath, and fury in civilized man.

    Her herpes sores erupted only when trapped, revealing her rotting soul. Many more infest our society, not condemned by an ancient paternalstic society that will not accept a praying mantiss godess.

    Heed the warning: You have seen a witch.

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  150. on December 6, 2009 at 12:53 pm Wendy Schwartz

    Umm Silver Fox, what’s your problem? I think exactly what we need in this world is for women to start BECOMING violent criminals, rapists, and serial murderers that target JUST MEN.

    Why??? Because then maybe all these guys who think “rape is no biggie” and don’t understand why women HATE male attention so much (especially strange men in public places)…..women have to live in fear of ALL of those things every single day because men ARE the perpetrators of violent murders and rapes and women are almost always the target.

    Maybe if men start to feel like a “walking target” like women do, they’ll begin to understand why the Feminist laws became so (allegedly) “skewed” in the first place.

    Learn to keep your hands to yourselves, your fists in your pockets, and yourselves under control and women will have no further cause to try to “keep men down” with Feminist Laws.

    Whether you care to admit it or not…..men have done ALL of this to themselves. As a gender you are known for your violence, your ability to mass murder without reason, and your ability to “rape” just because you feel like it…..and then you wonder why the laws favor women????

    It’s because women continue to NOT be protected from these types of men, continue to have to protect THEMSELVES in any way they know how.

    And this “evil witch” you speak of sounds like a woman who has finally made the right choice.

    After all, the idea is to become the Predator and NOT the Prey, right? I totally agree with that. Ladies, grab your knives and guns and start fighting back!!! We will see, then how ridiculous the men think it is that we “deserve” protection when their asses are in danger daily like ours are.

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  151. […] Roissy – “The Ideal Lover Can Never Be the Great Boyfriend” […]

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  152. on December 6, 2009 at 8:48 pm finsalscollons

    Oh. Natasha. I am trying to maximize my options. Of course, I have said “I don’t want to commit to you” to some women. Some have stayed, some don’t. But it is good to have them for a while, if you can, if you like the girl. This is what game is all about: maximizing your options, trying to do better than without game. It is the same with any other aspect of life: learning strategies is never bad.

    About being alpha, I don’t give a damn. I’m banging three women at the same time right now and two are on the way. I don’t give a damn about a letter of the Greek alphabet.

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  153. nice site and articles

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  154. Oh finsalscollons — Hello.

    If you have 3 women in your harem and 2 in the wings, then you’re livin’ the dream! Why are you asking for advice here? Maybe you should be giving advice instead of asking for it.

    If you have indeed forthrightly told women that you don’t want to commit to them, and have accepted the consequences of such (some leaving, some staying, as you claim), and such course of action has led to your present enviable situation of 3 women in your harem, etc.. — I’m left to wonder exactly how many women you want when you say you just want to “maximize your options.”

    Be happy with what you have. If you want more, then the “game” advice you seek is advice on how to lie and deceive. How’s this for a response when a girl subtly shit-tests you about commitment, and this girl is one you want to hold on to for the sake of “maximizing your options” — “yeah, I do see myself married someday soon, and I think it just might be you.” That’ll get you her company in bed and elsewhere for at least 3 more months. If you have a conscience, of course, you wouldn’t even go down this road. Anyway, just answering your question here.

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  155. Do You Understand your Lover? Doesn’t everybody do? Sadly not many of us understand our partners fully. If we had understood our lovers, the rates of separations and divorces would have gone down substantially instead of increasing. You may ask- if I don’t understand my love than how are we so good partners? Why he/she enjoys me? Why are we together? Let me talk about these.

    What does it mean by understanding? It is again a difficult question. Knowing about likes and dislikes does not mean understanding. To understand means to know the values, the life goals and the priorities of a person. To understand means to know what incidences made what impacts on that person. To understand means – you will be able to predict the reaction of your partner at a crucial moment. Can you do that with surety?

    In the beginning of our relationship, we all talk about good things of life. Our focus is more to please our partner. Our focus is to get more pleasure in their company. we never think about the underlying psychological motivators at that time. After the relationship develop little further, we find that many times we get baffled by what our partner says and vice-versa. That side of his/her character we never knew. If this is something, we can accept easily, we will forget about it, or fissures will develop at this juncture.

    Not many partners are totally honest with each other about their deepest thoughts, desires and fears. If I fear that you may one day leave me, because I doubt your long term loyalty, will I ever tell you about that fear? Such hidden thoughts create a wall between the partners that can be never crossed. Only few manage to break it. Once you do that and tell everything about yourself and your thoughts and get to know everything about your partner, the relationship will grow stronger. These kinds of relationships were common in the earlier days but are rare now.

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  156. As our genetic interest is the deciding factor, marry for sex daily, cheat for sex on the side, and spread your genes around for as long as you are able, morality means nothing, genetic life is everything. Read between the lines.

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  157. hey roissy awesome blog, i just noticed that this link isnt working anymore http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/11/16/discovering-a-girls-soul-with-one-simple-question/

    did you take it down? thanks

    Like


  158. […] many ways, this is as close to a fulfillment of the Lover/Provider complex as any girl is going to get. A sexy, violent dude locked in a rubber room with no sharp objects and barely any clothes? She […]

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  159. I wish I would have found your site 10 years ago….as a woman, I can honestly say that much of what I read was shocking, but I know deep down it’s true!! And the best blog entry thus far is this one…..I told my “former lover” that man # 2, Ideal Lover, is the kind of man I want NEXT in my life…I can entertain myself, and even take myself out to dinner with my friends if I want….but I want a lover/boyfriend who will f*!%*k me silly till the cows come home…..ie…” in his world, the best measure of quality is how often intercourse is happening…”….However, I will say that when I was a young, nublie beauty in my twenties’….I hardly cared AT ALL about sex….(probably cuz I could get it so easily), but now….at my “cougar” stage of life….how ironic that I value a truly masculine man…and realize how important sex REALLY is to a relationship, er…sex with a strong, fiercely independent man…and now I am settled enough in my thinking to not need the constant attention of my man, and I have control over my emotions 100fold….but alas…my sexual value is much lower now…..that is somewhat of a cruel cosmic joke if you ask me!!!!

    But, as a woman who is NOT nor has ever been a feminist….KUDOS to this blog!!! And especially to this entry today…(Except for some stuff…thank God for your comments from others to help ground me after I read an unusually offensive post….LOL)

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