What Kind Of Man Uses A Hooker?

UPDATE BELOW

I know two friends who solicited the services of whores. Their stories, despite the superficial differences, are disturbing yet humorous. I understand prostitution is pretty normal throughout the world, and even encouraged in some parts to help young men without means alleviate their swollen scrotes, but it still sounds strange to hear my American friend admit he paid for sex.

I don’t get the allure. Even during my driest spells I never entertained the option of paying a whore for a nut-relieving bang. I was never so lazy that handing over a few bills to a skank seemed like an acceptable substitute to going out and grinding my way through the field until I found a skank who wouldn’t request cash up front. Also, I’m a romantic at heart. I need to know the woman wants to be there.

I think most men would agree with me that it’s hard not to feel like a loser if you paid for it. But would you be?

Friend A drove to New York back when the city still had some gritty grottos. He enthusiastically described the scene for me. He pulled his car up to the curb between two street lights at 3AM, rolled down his window, and within a minute a mid-20s stringy-haired brunette stumbled up in her heels. They spent a few seconds bartering and she got in the car on the passenger side. She was efficient and skilled, unbuckling his belt, unzipping his pants, and freeing his member in one smooth uninterrupted motion. As her head bobbed up and down on his lap he leaned back with an ear-to-ear grin on his face, locked his hands behind his head, and stared up at the roof of his car. A random pedestrian shuffled by and paid him no notice. At the moment of sweet release, he jerked and hit his head on the roof while knocking her into the steering wheel. She continued unfazed. It was all over as soon as it had begun. My friend remembered pondering Socratic-like during the act how easy and convenient it had all seemed. He seemed not to nurse any psychic distress over his decision to advertise failure in the sexual marketplace.

Friend B would frequent a Korean-run “massage” parlor for their “happy endings”. Heaven to him was having some random Asian bring him to climax with the professionalism and dedication to craft of a Samurai. The place he went to was known by the local cops. They never cracked down because they were enjoying the same services. My friend told me the Asian girls who worked there were really robotic about the whole thing. They would bark orders at him to undress and turn over, and then pump his cock like a piston after applying a variety of Oriental herbs and lubes. Usually the girl had tiny hands and had to stimulate him with both, which made him feel like a bigger man and boosted his ego major. She utilized a twisting motion that my friend described as the “Secret Asian Stroke”. Occasionally, another female employee would casually amble in and out of the room to get something while he was in the middle of his happy ending. After he busted, his little China girl would towel the gobs off and say “OK, you done now. Get dressed.” and perfunctorily exit the room, leaving him there in the empty room with a desktop statue of Buddha grinning at his deflating penis.

***

You probably have an image in your head of these two guys being total losers; short, fat, acne-ridden, greasy-haired, socially inept, smelly, poor, binge-drinking omegas who creep out girls before they’ve even opened their mouths, and you’d be half right. One of the guys was married to an attractive woman, had a good-paying high status job, and could charm the skirts off girls at parties.

Does that fact change your perception? They both did the same thing — paying money to a whore for sexual gratification — and yet for some reason the visceral reaction to peg these guys as losers for visiting prostitutes is not as strong for the married guy. You ladies might even be amused by his antics, excusing them with the rationale that sometimes guys just “like the idea of paying for it from strange women”. Maybe you think he is an alpha whose wife gave him permission to blow off steam with nubile sex workers. Oh sure, you wag your finger at his sinful ways, but you don’t feel the same instinctual disgust for the alpha male who goes to a hooker.

Soliciting whores is a leading indicator of loser betatude, but it isn’t a defining characteristic. Betas are and always will be men who disgust women because they aren’t as high status as the men women want to fuck, no matter what their moral virtue. Betas get no pass, all the blame, and no praise, regardless of the facts.

Can you guess which of my friends in the stories above was the loser?

Answer: Friend A was the loser. Try to imagine the quality of cheap hooker you’ll confront on deserted city streets at 3AM. Hint: It ain’t 5 diamond.





Comments


  1. on September 24, 2008 at 4:18 pm monohechomierda

    It really is a cultural thing. In most of the world prostitution, both direct and indirect, is really embedded into the local culture and a part of most upper class men’s normal lives. Being Alpha in the rest of the world means that you are familliar with the scene. Hell, in Brazil upper class guys stop off at the local whorehouse after work before going home for dinner.

    Liked by 1 person


  2. and yet for some reason the visceral reaction to peg these guys as losers for visiting prostitutes is not as strong for the married guy.

    I’ve always been curious (in an abstract way) about “the industry” and one of my friends is a Beta male who frequents these joints.

    One insight he gave me is that lonely guys prize something known in the industry as GFE, or Girlfriend Effect. Tenderness, near-kisses, etc.

    Married guys or guys with girlfriends who go to these places like the PSE, or the Pr0n Star Effect. Rough, wild, lotssa slapping.

    Which one of your friend was the loser? I think Guy B was the more Alpha one. He went to the joint possibly out of curiosity, and was disappointed with the experience.

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  3. It’s more logical to assume that Friend B is the loser, since he frequents that parlor, and puts up with the Asian girls’ bad attitude. So to defy logic I will go with friend A. He is the loser, since he comes as soon as it’s begun as if he doesn’t normally get any.

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  4. Never mind. I missed the part about Friend B frequenting these parlors.

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  5. Now, this ought to be interesting…

    Salaam
    Mu

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  6. I really wish you wouldn’t talk about my sex life on your blog. Wait what, where am I?

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  7. No brainer. The one at the Asian massage parlor was the loser.

    Liked by 1 person


  8. on September 24, 2008 at 4:54 pm Patrick Bateman

    I never went to a “massage” parlor or picked up a street hooker, but I have fucked a couple of escorts. A girl’s value drops very quickly after the first fuck, so then it’s a question of how much does an escort cost vs. how much does a regular girl (AKA whore who only accepts non-monetary payment) cost to get to the first fuck. I can get a girl in bed with about 10-13 hours of total work, including time spent in the field looking for a girl. What is that time worth to me? It depends. $20/hr if she’s fun, $40/hr if she has a 2 digit IQ. An escort that you wouldn’t be ashamed of fucking is about $300 but usually not as attractive as the girls I usually pick up. So the scales are about balanced. I’ve considered abandoning frequent gaming for the next year or so. I have prelims coming up in the spring and I spend ~80hr/week doing something related to school. The value of my time has gone up significantly.

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  9. I need to know the woman wants to be there.

    Likewise. I lack the ability for self-deception that I’d need to (overtly) hire. Indirect payment being the societal norm, I’ll cop to having done that, though never again.

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  10. The difference between sex for money and sex for free is that sex for money is a lot cheaper.

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  11. on September 24, 2008 at 5:20 pm Days of Broken Arrows

    Peter said: “The difference between sex for money and sex for free is that sex for money is a lot cheaper.”

    Hahahahahaha. Cynical but true. Look at divorce payout and the insane amount of $$$ guys dole out for dates — alphas included.

    And I’ll add that as a Beta with an Alpha edge, I have never ever paid as much money for anything that by Totally Alpha brother does for his Alpha Wife. I wonder who the real Beta is when the balance comes due…

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  12. This isn’t really a big deal. You’re still too “American” in your romanticism. In Europe, it’s commonplace; visit Amsterdam often is my advice. If you live in Russia for a while, it’s like going to out to eat. Mostly, it’s because you don’t want the hassle afterwards.

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  13. Just to point this out, there’s a big difference in pulling up to the curb and paying $1500 for a few hours.

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  14. With habituation to paid sex, both become damaged.

    They develop unrealistic sense of pleasing a genuine partner.
    They need incremental frequency/intensity/variety to become aroused. They lose the capacity to read genuine pleasure/annoyance in a real woman.

    The same is seen with porn addicted men.

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  15. I’ll guess that the loser goes to the massage parlor. If it’s gonna be a regular thing, a massage parlor that you know cop’s won’t bust is sort of safe and regular.

    The married guy might just have wanted the thrill of seeing a street walker. He may have been turned on by the danger involved. Hugh Grant was caught in a car with a prostitute even though he was with Elizabeth Hurley at the time and could have just had regular affairs if he had wanted to.

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  16. The reason I think the nerd is the one who went to the massage parlor is that for some reason many nerds who may be intimidated by white or black girls have a lot more social comfort with Asian girls and are much more likely to put Asian girls on a pedestal for some reason. Especially if it’s a white nerd. I know many white nerds that will put any asian girl, even if she’s a 5 or a 6, on a pedestal like she’s a 9 or a 10. So I’m thinking if he’s willing to put up with such a robotic, impersonal, dull orgasm enough to visit repeatedly, he may just be so caught up in the Asianness that he doesn’t care about the half-ass service and is just happy to be getting action from an Asian girl. Which is why I imagine him to be the nerd out of the two.

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  17. B likes to play it safe. He’s the loser. Plus he digs on Asians no doubt. A beautiful woman is a beautiful woman so it doesn’t matter what race she is if she’s hot but by an large white guys that dig on Asians are the biggest fucking betas I’ve ever met in my life.

    …assuming he’s white. These rules don’t apply to blacks, hispanics, and other Asians.

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  18. Everyone “pays” for sex.

    Its either money or time.

    And as we all know, time is money.

    So there you have it.

    – MPM

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  19. So to answer the question “What Kind Of Man Uses A Hooker?”

    All men do.

    And if you think about it, all women do too.

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  20. Some people would even be cynical enough to say that dating and marriage is just a less intellectually honest version of prostitution. Even I’m not that cynical though.

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  21. DF @ 17:

    Ha, it’s like we’re tuned in to each other’s wavelength at something, we posted the exact same thing at the same time. Great minds and all that…

    But yeah, white betas and asian worship is a phenomenon that I’d love to understand better.

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  22. A close friend of mine, who comes from a developing country, lost his virginity at 15 or 16 to a hooker that his father had bought him. Apparently that’s pretty common in his country. It probably encourages budding alphaness.

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  23. I agree: B is beta. Repeat visits in a safe environment (risk adverse) and allowing brusque, dismissive behavior? Come on now, Roissy.

    Also, I’m a romantic at heart. I need to know the woman wants to be there.

    The hooker wants to be there. I don’t see the problem. Prostitution gets a bad rap.

    Liked by 1 person


  24. T @ 21, Yeah thats funny we were thinking the same thing!

    I think I know where it comes from having observed the guys I know. Asians don’t really require much game to pull. They tend not to shit test you as much and will also have a subservient streak to them, making these guys feel more dominant than they really are. In addition, they have smaller snatches and tend to be petite so it probably makes these guys feel like John Holmes. Its pretty straightforward.

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  25. Oh please, the alpha male hits the massage parlor *frequently* because he is an alpha male. The alpha needs the continual gratification, not the once-off thrill. The beta is a beta because he’s fearful; he tries the anonymous street-corner, and he haggles because he gets no pleasure from whipping out a $50.

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  26. on September 24, 2008 at 6:05 pm Patrick Bateman

    @22 MM
    A close friend of mine, who comes from a developing country, lost his virginity at 15 or 16 to a hooker that his father had bought him. Apparently that’s pretty common in his country. It probably encourages budding alphaness.

    My dad was born in a developing country and he tried to do the same thing for me. I refused. I lost my virginity a week shy of my 15th birthday to a girl I was actually in love with. I had the opportunity to lose it sooner but I actually wanted to be in love with my first. I should have listened to my father. If my first experience had been with a whore, I might have realized sooner that most women are whores of some form or another.

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  27. Another thing guys don’t realize is how many undercover and “one-time” hookers there are out there. I’m sure most of us have dated a woman who discretely accepted money for sex once or twice in her past:

    http://www.radaronline.com/from-the-magazine/2008/08/secrets_of_a_hipster_hooker_01.php

    Although jury’s still out about whether the story is true or not.

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  28. “Another thing guys don’t realize is how many undercover and “one-time” hookers there are out there.”

    Agreed.

    It is WAY, WAY more than we have any idea. And I have an idea.

    Especially in a Down Economy….

    – MPM

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  29. @23 “The hooker wants to be there. I don’t see the problem. Prostitution gets a bad rap”

    hahaha! I heart lemmonex.

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  30. I was thinking the same about the loser being the one with a boner for snappy Asian chicks — but how far did Guy A drive to New York City? Like from New Jersey or Long Island, or from DC?

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  31. Roissy, they’re ALL prostitutes…

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  32. on September 24, 2008 at 6:31 pm secret asian man

    To quote Charlie Sheen, they don’t pay them for the sex, they pay them to go away.

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  33. but how far did Guy A drive to New York City? Like from New Jersey or Long Island, or from DC?

    DAMN good point. You’ve got me reconsidering now…

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  34. “but how far did Guy A drive to New York City? Like from New Jersey or Long Island, or from DC?”

    Real good point.

    Any why would he go to NYC for street hookers?

    DC has Tons of prostitution.

    Should have just flown to Amsterdam.

    – MPM

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  35. Kick a Bitch, your mother just called. She says you’re grounded in perpetuity.

    I wonder whether you actually get aroused thinking about where that protein in your mother’s breast milk might have come from.

    Sweet Jesus.

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  36. It’s pretty off topic, but I just saw this from Yahoo about the Finnish school shooter… Apparently according to police, most of his victims were women. Can’t say that’s too shocking after what I’ve learned from comments and posts on this blog.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080924/ap_on_re_eu/eu_finland_school_shooting

    But as for Asian girls, I know plenty of people (usually nerdy white guys, although lots of non-nerdy ones do too) who are obsessed with them. For the reasons they like the stereotypical intelligence, loyalty, and passiveness that they think Asian girls have… a lot of them still seem ‘feminine’ compared to some of the ball-buster American women. Not to mention the geeks assume “oh Asian, she must like video games and j-pop and anime, we probably have stuff in common!”. Not to mention, a lot of Asian girls like the nice boy whiteys (at least according to several Asian females I know) and prefer to the Asian guys.

    And depending on the field you’re in, say you are a computer science major, most of the non-disgusting women will be Asian, so geeks have a higher chance of meeting them.

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  37. Now I wish I could take that back, because there’s nothing to be gained from standing between a man and his own self-hatred.

    But, seriously, if the kind of benevolent attitude toward women that is in evidence here is evinced by men who supposedly get all the sex they want, can the “casual misogyny of betas” be that much worse?

    Physician, heal thyself.

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  38. prostitution in the traditional sense barely exists in the U.S., unless you are a Spitzer type who can hire high-paid escorts. You really need to look at Europe, Asia, or SA to see prostitution in action, I think the furtive, sleazy examples given here differ.

    Roissy pursues social status more than sex, he wants to feel he’s getting it over on women and proving his manhood and he’s obsessed with ‘alpha’ status. So he could hardly be attracted to paying for a prostitute. Even if the sex is good, it doesn’t confer status.

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  39. I’ll hazard a guess and say that the married guy with the high-status job visited the massage parlor. He had much more to lose than the pathetic Beta if he got caught patronizing a hooker and therefore chose the safer alternative. Nor would the mechanical nature of the sex be as much of an issue, as he has easy access to quality sex.

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  40. yeah, first guy is a loser. nothing wrong with the second guy

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  41. PA,

    You’re about right about the acronyms, but it’s “girlfriend experience” and “pornstar experience”, respectively. It’s usually a very mixed bag, and the stuff about whores not kissing and so on is just a myth. Some are happy to shove their tongue down your throat, some refuse to have anything to do with any kind of bodily fluid. Same thing goes for how girlfriendy the experience is, it can vary from bossy asians shouting at you to lots of cuddling and genuine affection.

    Anony,

    You’re wrong about habituation to paid sex.

    There is zero evidence for either porn consumtion or paying for sex actually decreases your ability to read body language. What changes is that you stop caring about the woman’s (or womens’) reactions, not the ability to perceive them. And for wimpy guys that’s probably a good thing.

    As for requiring increasingly strong stimuli, that’s probably just a response to more options being available. Pretty much everyone is going to want something a little better than they have. If all they have access to is their hand and internet porn it’s not going to take much to surpass that, if they’ve just fucked a penthouse model in the ass standards are going to be a bit higher.

    It does seem that buying sex breeds a whole lot of contempt and ill will on both sides though. But that seems a lot more related to the economics of the situation for guys. The ones not being able to afford what they want tend to get pretty resentful.

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  42. B is beta:
    He habitually subjects himself to brusqueness and disrespect.
    He frequents the parlor where there isn’t much variety.
    Handjobs just plain suck.

    A is alpha because he has no concern about the hooker hurting herself.

    I have no desire to patronize a hooker, but it definitely seems thrilling, like something to try.

    Anyhow, the real answer doesn’t matter so much – if you had say, 50 of each A and B, I’d be curious as to the different ‘average’ profile of types As and Bs.

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  43. to JRF #39,

    -you are damaged goods

    -stop deluding yourself that your prostitutes have “orgasms”

    -sex with you is nothing but a script, devoid of genuineness, vulnerability, and intimacy

    -there is no “contempt” nor “ill will” , as long as you stay away from the rest of us.

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  44. The truth is…most men actually think it’s much easier to be “Tricks” or “Johns”. To be willing to develop the skills and the HEART to become Alpha-like in your sexual attractiveness to women, even to the point of passing on (honest) whores, ugly fucks, and chubby fucks for your hand and porn is too much for some men(?). Those men(?) are beyond help. This a reason some sasquatch lookin broads have kids. Count it a blessing when you have the BALLS to demand more for your BALLS than what your swagger can get you at the moment. IT STILL IS TRICKIN’ EVEN IF YOU GOT IT.

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  45. Kick a Bitch, your mother just called. She says you’re grounded in perpetuity.

    I wonder whether you actually get aroused thinking about where that protein in your mother’s breast milk might have come from.

    Sweet Jesus.

    haha… you have NO idea

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  46. I know a guy who goes out and picks up on girls 5 nights a week.

    If he gets a girl with Game and for “free” fine. (about 50% of the nights he goes out).

    If he doesn’t he calls a prostitute.

    He swoops at least 5 girls a week without fail.

    Alpha or Not?

    – MPM

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  47. THey are both Losers. Patronizing prostitutes is unhealthy. Both disease wise, and for one’s self respect. Pr0n is a better substitution, is cheaper, and does not degrade one’s own self image or self respect.

    I don’t see any functional difference between the two men. One patronizes street hookers, the other a massage parlor, both use prostitutes. Unwise, unhealthy, fairly disgusting.

    Moreover, this goes to another point: those “beta” men who lack the attributes that women want, will not be happy with prostitutes because you’ll get some sort of mechanical response. Either perfunctory “get the job done” approach in a car in a sleazy area by sleazy personnel, or the same in a massage parlor. Both unlikely to give the intimacy and emotional connection that men, beta or alpha, require.

    Thus you’ll get, various resentful beta men who will eventually in aggregate make life miserable in one form or another for women. It might be as simple as failing to yield seats, or assist women struggling with packages, multiplied by a million times a day.

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  48. “Handjobs just plain suck”… when you can give yourself a handjob cheaply why would you pay someone else to do it, but a massage and a handjob, well, that’s money well spent.

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  49. It’s clear as day, even though you make a bit of an effort to obscure.

    Guy A is not necessarily and in fact almost certainly isn’t a sexual loser. Instead he has a permissive or highly permissive attitude towards sometimes paying for it. He could easily do without, but felt like adventuring, or a sort. He would probably not do the exact same thing again, or anyway at all soon. He’s the one married to an attractive woman.

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  50. A man does not pay a prostitute so much for sex. Rather, he is paying her to leave afterwards.

    Americans are prudish about all this. I would not hesitate to pay a hot woman for an hour of pure sex, without any emotional complications. Plus there is the just the thrill of fucking someone for money, pure and simple. Prostitution should be totally legal in this country.

    The woman has to be at least attractive though. Most street walkers are skanks, so I would never pay one for any sexual act. A higher end escort though is worth the price. I would rather shell out 300 dollars knowing that I am going to enjoy fucking someone rather than spend it on a woman who may give you nothing in return if all I am looking for is sex and I am not in a hunting for pussy mode. Now when I am hunting for pussy, well that is a different thing. It is sort of like going to the zoo to see an exotic animal vs. actually going out into the wild to tract one down.

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  51. Spitzer – alpha, no?

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  52. “But yeah, white betas and asian worship is a phenomenon that I’d love to understand better.”

    This is a mystery to some people?

    Simple answer. Asians are lower testosterone than whites. White guys get bumped up with asian women automatically (since chicks look for test and a low test white guy (aka, nerdy white dude) is higher test than low test asian guys who are practically chicks). White guys can do better with asian chicks than they can with white chicks.

    On top of that asian chicks are lower test themselves. As roissy has pointed out many many times, the more dominant a woman is the more dominant a man has to be to turn her on.

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  53. mq off the mark yet again:
    Roissy pursues social status more than sex, he wants to feel he’s getting it over on women and proving his manhood and he’s obsessed with ‘alpha’ status. So he could hardly be attracted to paying for a prostitute. Even if the sex is good, it doesn’t confer status.

    you discredit yourself further with every word and faulty theory you post here.
    i am not attracted to paying for sex with a whore because sex is much better when the woman is freely, lovingly, and willingly sharing her body with me without payment up front.
    social status is merely a tool in service to the ultimate aim — love and sex with beautiful women.
    i expect you to pretend you don’t understand what i just wrote.
    or maybe you really are that dumb.

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  54. on September 24, 2008 at 10:24 pm Christopher Tracy

    I’ve been with an escort and I would do it again. I’ve come to the realization that I lack essential traits which are vital for attracting women, and I should just be lucky that I have a penis with which to have sex.

    Going out and hiring an escort is easier than learning game and failing at picking up women. I’m not even aware of their body language so I’m at a complete loss anyway.

    Liked by 1 person


  55. on September 24, 2008 at 10:28 pm Christopher Tracy

    And BTW, I’m black and I have an Asian fetish. The first and only escort I’ve been (due to lack of funds, I’m a 19 year old college student) with was a Japanese woman. I lost my virginity to her.

    I attribute most of my troubles to my inability to gauge body language. I was born with a keen split between my verbal and spatial intelligence, so I tend to rely on words much more than other people. As you can imagine, this creates a hindrance in trying to connect with women because I’m just too physically oblivious to signs and I can’t flirt.

    Liked by 1 person


  56. When I think of prostitition, I think of Elliot Spitzer and other millionaires on business trips calling very high priced call girls to their rooms for sex with condoms in our major cities because they dont want to waste the time to seduce anyone and are accustomed to buying the things they desire with money and instant gratification.

    I suppose if your income is one million a year, and you pay 1,000 bucks twice a week for sex……..you’d be blowing about 100K a year on sex, and still have 900K in income. I can see some middle-aged-executive-type doing this for a while, but ultimately even the most crass money-worshipping businessman surely wants some personal relationship. The trade off is that he gets to fuck former-stripper- former-model-types by buying it as opposed to someone more in his league looks-wise in developing a relationship.

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  57. to D. # 48.

    So, you want sex “without the emotional complications” huh?

    How about these emotional complications:
    – she arrives drunk, in order to dull the indignity of it all

    -her loneliness, because no other man will bond to her

    -the isolation of not being able to share her life with friends/neighbors

    -her cynicism and lack of trust, resulting from years of servicing married men

    -her raging materialism, as she equates her self-worth with the luxury items she can purchase.

    Men who advocate prostitution are hypocrites. They want it for themselves, but not for their nieces, sisters, wives, mothers, nor daughters. Who do you think these women are? Men who advocate prostitution prefer women who are socioeconomically/racially/ethnically divergent from themselves. They squirm to think of prostitutes as their sisters, neighbors, nor mothers.

    Your post screams of regurgitated cliches.

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  58. on September 24, 2008 at 10:36 pm Christopher Tracy

    “Men who advocate prostitution are hypocrites. They want it for themselves, but not for their nieces, sisters, wives, mothers, nor daughters. Who do you think these women are? Men who advocate prostitution prefer women who are socioeconomically/racially/ethnically divergent from themselves. They squirm to think of prostitutes as their sisters, neighbors, nor mothers.”

    I wouldn’t be opposed to either my sister or my mother prostituting themselves, just as long as it’s done cleanly and in an upscale type of affiliation, like an escort service.

    Sex is an economic good like anything else, and exchanging money for sex shouldn’t be shunned. Other women supply sex in exchange for capital too, just not anything as blunt as money.

    Liked by 1 person


  59. FACT: Men who frequent prostitutes aren’t generally the type of men that “can’t get” women. They have more voluntary sex partners than average.

    Here’s the “counter-intuitive” thing: roissy doesn’t go to prostitutes because he *likes* women, and to some extent he actually has a female brain… or rather some female-typical cognitive traits. For example he obviously gets a dopamine blast from talking and social connection.

    Many men who go to prostitutes, even if they have the talent or the status to seduce women, don’t like to. They don’t like to socially connect. They don’t like to talk and flirt. They don’t care how she feels or what pleasure she gets.

    These things are all a large part of the appeal of sex to roissy. But it’s all purely mechanical for the John: person who looks like x does y until ejaculation. Then she takes her money and leaves.

    Liked by 1 person


  60. Guy A was curious; guy B was the serial loser.

    Either way, what strikes me about your story is the women’s accomplished and perfunctory completion of their duties in both scenarios. It kind of makes me sad, and yet it is a rather unsurprising fact.

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  61. Oh damn. I just saw the update. Figures.

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  62. to Christopher Tracy , # 58.

    “I wouldn’t be opposed to either my sister or my mother prostituting themselves, just as long as it’s done cleanly and in an upscale type of affiliation, like an escort service.”

    Honestly, your statement is refreshing, but you are too young to give up on genuine desire and love. Your post reveals that you are intelligent and thoughtful; a fabulous start.

    I am not judging women who choose to prostitute themselves. Their decision is typically rooted in an acute need for money……like rent due tomorrow.

    Liked by 1 person


  63. “They squirm to think of prostitutes as their sisters, neighbors, nor mothers.

    Your post screams of regurgitated cliches.”

    Uh, his post does?

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  64. i expect you to pretend you don’t understand what i just wrote.

    Oh, I understand you quite well, Roissy.

    Not disagreeing — I can only imagine how awful impersonal sex with a street prostitute would be — simply pointing out that even if good sex was available for pay it would do nothing to address the insecurities you display so lavishly and constantly here.

    Like


  65. Rain And’s post at #59 is quietly one of the most brilliant comments I think I ever read here.

    Like


  66. to # 64.

    I’ll restate my post # 14: habituation to paid sex damages men.

    possible short-term benefit———->long-term demise

    Like


  67. I’m puzzled that Roissy is puzzled by this phenomenon, especially with regard to the married guy. A married man cannot spend hours in bars, night after night, playing games with women. If he wants sex with someone other than his wife – and if he wants it when he wants it, not when a random one-nighter happens to come along – then his choices are: (a) affair; and (b) prostitute. Affairs are dangerous. So are prostitutes, of course, but in a much different and more controllable way. This is especially true for alpha males, who tend to build alpha families. Affairs threaten the home. Hookers do not.

    As for single men, I agree that for them there is more of a loser-ish quality to using prostitutes. However, some successful single men just don’t have the time, the interest or the temperament to spend endless hours pursuing poon. Maybe conquering women is less important to them than conquering … I don’t know … the mortgage crisis or something. Perhaps that makes them betas in Roissy’s book, but they won’t necessarily match the other stereotypes of betas – physically unattractive, lacking in leadership qualities, etc. In the old days, men like this would almost always be married and thus theoretically getting laid regularly. (Married men all over the world are laughing hysterically when they read that.) However, changing gender roles have left some such men high and dry. I don’t blame them for paying a woman to provide an alternative to Rosey Palms.

    Liked by 1 person


  68. Prostitution is tragicomique, with elements of failure and hope intertwined in a frank exposure of human nature.

    Young women with nothing but their ephemeral beauty and men with nothing but material goods — it’s such an embarrassing snapshot of the human condition that there’s no wonder people hide it away.

    I’ve seen men fight over hookers with knives. I’ve seen Mongolian hookers make love to each other on a pool table after hours in a Chinese sports bar. So bizarre…

    The strange thing is the exceptional physical beauty I have seen put on sale. As a boy I worshiped that beauty and asked myself how such a woman could debase herself like that. Now, with a better understanding of what kind of creatures we are, I ask “how couldn’t she?”

    Like


  69. Roissy said:you discredit yourself further with every word and faulty theory you post here.
    i am not attracted to paying for sex with a whore because sex is much better when the woman is freely, llovingly, and willingly sharing her body with me without payment up front.

    How could a woman love you if she only met you 2hours ago?

    FYI, some men say if you pay for dinner or drinks that you’ve paid. I am aware that you don’t pay for thing btw.

    Like


  70. RAin and -Charlie Sheen falls under the type you mentioned.

    I’ve heard some men say that they like the girlfriend experience when they go to pros. A few of the prostuites on the bunny ranch said the same thing.

    Like


  71. Anony

    Well let me enlighten you on a few things. First, I have been with over thirty different women in my lifetime who were not prostitutes. Second, I enjoy flirting and am very verbal and can connect when I want to with a woman on an emotional level and women have told me that they enjoy that about me. I enjoy being in love with a woman and have shared love with many women. Two women this past year told me that were in love with me and I was in love with them but unfortunately for different reason things could not work out in the end. So I know the difficulties of all that. Third, I will only have sex with white women, being white myself, preferable blond hair and blue eyed and the more Nordic the better. Hitler would have approved. And I enjoy fucking a hot, blond haired blue eyed babe just for the fun of it, whether for pay or not.

    I am not sure if you are male or female but your moralizing smells of either of a man who can’t get laid and envies those who can or a fairly ugly woman who is jealous in a typical catty way of prettier, more sexually powerful women than yourself.

    Like


  72. chicnoir –

    How could a woman love you if she only met you 2hours ago?

    Someone can do something lovingly without actually being in love. Doing something lovingly simply means doing it as if you love the person.

    Like


  73. RAin and -Charlie Sheen falls under the type you mentioned.

    How so? I’d disagree.

    Like


  74. to D. # 70.

    I am a woman, and none of your blather is relevant to my points—neither is your emotional tirade name-calling.

    Please reread my posts 14, 43, 57.
    -using prostitutes is not “without emotional complications”
    -(Most) men who advocate prostitution are hypocrites.

    My points are not moralizing, but rather, psychologizing.

    Like


  75. Anony,

    It is without emotional complications for me. Since I am paying for a service that is all that matters. The women are their mostly by their own choice, at least on the high end. Sure, there may be exceptions, but nothing in life is perfect. What their emotional problems may be is consequential to me. I am just their to enjoy fucking them. And it can be quite a delicious experience.

    D.

    Like


  76. “inconsequential” in the last post

    Like


  77. on September 25, 2008 at 12:29 am monohechomierda

    Dear anony,
    Most people are hypocrites. Just thought you should now.

    Like


  78. to D. # 74.

    hedonistic thrills———- for yourself
    emotional wreckage—– for your prosy and her family

    got it.

    Like


  79. To be honest I feel more sympathy for the sexless beta who sleeps with prostitutes, and there is more justification for what he does. Those guys are not likely to be abusive towards the girls either.

    The alpha, on the other hand, has a wife, and he might bring home unknown diseases that are fertility-threatening, or even life-threatening. I’d rather a husband had an affair with a clean, sweet girl than gave me some horrible disease. I would excuse that far less, despite his seemingly “alpha” status.

    In the case of guy B, he received handjobs which one could argue is fairly clean and probably results in the lowest rates of STD transmission. Interesting that in neither case mentioned did the men do penis to vagina penetration.

    For this reason I think legalization of prostitution might be the lesser of two evils, because the girls could present certifications that they are regularly checked for diseases, assure their cleanliness and professional privacy, and get legal protection if their clients do not pay up or turn violent. Men could also offer themselves on such a market for homosexual men.

    Finally, more personal opinion, but to echo what Gordan said in another comment. Men should respect their own bodies and keep themselves clean. He called it arrogance, but it’s not really. More like common sense. Burning sensations in that area is not sexy, dear sirs.

    Like


  80. to Hope # 78.

    You are babbling in speculation.

    Like


  81. You are babbling in speculation.

    Perhaps. And perhaps not. I have known people who have paid for sex.

    http://www.humantrafficking.org/updates/466

    Story of a Korean girl who by some unfortunate circumstances ended up working at a massage parlor. Part IV of her story might shine some light on the puzzle about the East Asian female and white male nerd pairings.

    A lot of Asian women really truly like and respond to kindness, gentleness, sweetness, and protectiveness. Some of them do not, but enough of them do that they want the white boy who is caring but gets rebuffed by white girls.

    Yes, East Asian men may seem girly to many here, but the thing about Asian girls, especially young girls who do not have much testosterone, is that they tend to crush hard for the girlier boys. You can see this a lot in the types of male heart throbs in the East Asian entertainment industry.

    There is also more emphasis on intelligence, smarts and academic achievement than on raw physical strength, bravado and brutality in East Asian cultures. Following the herd, working hard, and not being a rebel is rewarded rather than sneered at, and many Asian women are taught to look for signs of substance and stability than unpredictable men who might dishonor the family.

    The white guy also has tremendous status because whiteness of the skin is indicator of higher class among many world cultures. Like other women, they like height, but Asian women tend to be shorter to begin with, so white nerdy guys are usually taller. With all these things working for the white nerdy guy, why wouldn’t the Asian girl like him? And if she’s going to make it easy for him, why wouldn’t he reciprocate with love and adoration?

    No offense to the black guy who likes Asian women, because I have also dated them. But many families disapprove of such pairings. Close-minded? Surely. Asian parents have a very strong influence over their children’s lives and thought processes, to the point where even if they resist some of their parents’ authority, they do not do so completely.

    Like


  82. to Hope # 80.

    “Story of a Korean girl who by some unfortunate circumstances ended up working at a massage parlor. ”

    There is ONE and ONLY ONE “unfortunate circumstance”. She WANTS THE MONEY. That’s the “unfortunate circumstance”. She is proud of the money she makes.

    Hope,
    put on a pair of clear plastic stilettos, place a solicitation ad in Craigslist, and then come back here to share your opinions.

    Like


  83. Despite looking on craigslist and eros guide and having an empty hotel room for five days in San Francisco, I have yet to go to a prostitute for services. One part of me fears the legal repercussions of being caught with a prostitute, and there are the health risks with STDs. Plus, I can’t justify paying $300 to $500 for the experience due to a lack of disposable income. Plus, it’s not uncommon to hear of stories where men are robbed and scammed with bait and switch type operations.

    Besides, I’d feel guilty paying some woman who really isn’t attracted to me, and not really interested in having sex with me to bother dealing with me. Personally, I just can’t be with a girl who isn’t 100% into having sex with me, and if she isn’t, it’s no longer sex, but masturbation with another human.

    Like


  84. on September 25, 2008 at 1:30 am monohechomierda

    Hope @80
    Very good points and insight.

    Anony,
    Your ignorance of humanity, history, psychology, and of yourself is the most amusing thing I’ve come across in the last week.

    Like


  85. to mono # 83,

    then you are easily amused.

    Like


  86. put on a pair of clear plastic stilettos, place a solicitation ad in Craigslist, and then come back here to share your opinions.

    No thanks to that anony. I do not understand your simultaneous distaste of prostitution (and that part I do understand) and seeming eagerness to ask me to see it for myself.

    Like


  87. Anony,

    I think you need a nice, long, hard, sweaty, physical fuck at the moment. That would probably calm your bitchiness for at least a little while.

    Like


  88. to D. # 86.

    I enjoy plenty of ” long, hard, sweaties……….no problem there.

    Like


  89. David Alexander made a very wise decision.

    Let me add, that the majority of prostitutes and their johns in most areas are Latinos, specifically Mexican immigrants. Away from their families, among men, crowded into tiny spaces, desperate, seeking release. The HIV and other STD infections among Mexican immigrants is far higher than almost any other group.

    As Hope noted, patronizing prostitutes is horrific — the man can infect his wife and it’s often the case. Particularly among the Mexican immigrants. This is a problem with migrant African workers also, in SA and elsewhere. So it seems to be not related to a particular culture but condition of men outside feminine influence.

    It is very bad for men to be alone. They always get into trouble as a group.

    Charlie Sheen makes the point though that for Alpha, high-status guys, they can do anything at all. Women will still love them. Sheen has had two wives now, who knew up front of his patronizing prostitutes.

    Prostitution is remarkably ugly. One incident in Southern California illustrates this. The Grand daughter of the Montessori family, ran away from home since neither parent wanted her. She soon ended up as a pro on the streets of Orange County CA. Only 15, she tried to get out of a car where some guy had picked her up, fell and hit her head while the car was moving. Died, and was a Jane Doe for months. The guy had been arrested before for beating pros, she probably sensed something. There is a guy in LA, uncaught, who kills prostitutes. He’s already murdered I think 25 or so. Horrific.

    Prostitution is ugly. It should be abolished. Johns who patronize it deserve the severest punishment, for society’s good. Let pr0n substitute. I’m not wild about that either, but it’s preferable to prostitution.

    Like


  90. to Whiskey, # 89:

    Prostitutes are not a monolithic group. You address one subgroup. Others prefer to view themselves as “high class”; educated, intelligent, selective. But, they are always low-income and/or debt-burdened without their johns. There is only one reason a woman prostitutes herself——-because she is desperate for the $$$$$$. How “high-class” was Sptizer’s hooker? She was a high school dropout with the rent due.

    Hiring prostitutes does not make a man knowledgeable. He only knows what she selectively fabricates. The john is not there for the overdose attempts, the loneliness and isolation, the mental illness, the addictions, nor the self-imposed celibacy after she retires. He only knows the giggles, “moans”, and the “orgasms”.

    Habituation to paid sex damages men.

    Like


  91. Perhaps. And perhaps not. I have known people who have paid for sex.

    -Hope

    You are Chinese, no? I am utterly shocked to know that you are aware of such things…

    A lot of Asian women really truly like and respond to kindness, gentleness, sweetness, and protectiveness.

    But of course they can always get some rough action on the side and get away with it due to their inscrutability. Best of both worlds, you could say.

    With all these things working for the white nerdy guy, why wouldn’t the Asian girl like him? And if she’s going to make it easy for him, why wouldn’t he reciprocate with love and adoration?

    Perhaps because she would make it even easier for the white stud.

    Admit it, Hope: the simple fact that you’re posting on this blog indicates that you get a thrill out of the idea of being seduced and ravished by some dissolute rogue.

    Like


  92. Whiskey is right about the dangers involved, but again that has more to do with illegality than the business itself.

    My own experience as a loser dweeb living in the Bay Area many years ago: I used to come to Nevada every few months for a “fix”. Yes, it was that bad and yes, my life was that humiliating. My experiences in the brothels were uneven. Some of the girls were very gentle and others I would have liked to strangle. You pays your money and you takes your chances.

    The irony is that today I’m long married and living in Nevada in one of those counties with legal brothels. I pass no fewer than four of them commuting each way to work every day. I can’t vouch for the quality of the product there these days, but I can tell you (from what I’ve heard) that it’s way more expensive.

    Like


  93. David Alexander:

    “Besides, I’d feel guilty paying some woman who really isn’t attracted to me, and not really interested in having sex with me to bother dealing with me. Personally, I just can’t be with a girl who isn’t 100% into having sex with me, and if she isn’t, it’s no longer sex, but masturbation with another human.”

    Like the 40 year old virgin, you’re putting the pussy on a pedestal. Yes protect yourself from disease, but you have more emotional baggage around sex than many women I know.

    Like


  94. roissy:

    “I don’t get the allure. ”

    The allure is sometimes you want to get laid without the bullshit. This is why women like Sienna Miller and Elizabeth Hurley get cheated on in their absolute prime.

    Like


  95. Try to imagine the quality of cheap hooker you’ll confront on deserted city streets at 3AM.

    I live on top of a Thai “massage” place, on the local main prostitute street. The difference in quality couldn’t be clearer. It always makes me wonder how the street girls stay in business. What’s their advantage? Is there some special thrill in toothless addicts?

    Oh and the parlour client is the loser.

    I’ve known a few regular Asian massage parlour clients and they’ve been the biggest omegas that I can imagine. Way worse than our David here.

    Like


  96. This attitude is very American. In Russia or Ukraine, getting prostitutes does not mean that you are a loser. I know several guys here that are (1) married and (2) at the same time have 2 or 3 girlfriends on the side. Even they go out for prostitutes once or twice a week. Basically, they are super busy with their work (most are high level managers) and just go for a quick 1 or 2 hour sessions, oftentimes getting their friends and going for orgies. In fact, I would say in Russia or Ukraine, being able to afford high class prostitutes is alpha, not beta. I know of one company that threw a corporate party and the boss paid for about 10 hookers to service the 25 guys working there. Damn, the girls who worked there were really pissed off!! Besides that, American hookers are disgusting crack whores that are counting the seconds on their watch. In Russia, it’s more like girlfriend experience. Personally, I think it’s a waste of cash — but the point is: America is culturally 100% different from Europe or Asia on this point.

    Like


  97. Christopher Tracy:

    As you can imagine, this creates a hindrance in trying to connect with women because I’m just too physically oblivious to signs and I can’t flirt.

    Have you been diagnosed with a mild form of autism?

    Dynamo Kiev, you are right. Things can be very different in parts of the world other than America.

    Liked by 1 person


  98. Just to add some numbers from my comment earlier in the thread, responding to the common belief that men who use prostitutes do so because they are awkward or “can’t get” women, here is the best study I can find of men who have tried to have sex with a prostitute at least once. The sample is men who have been arrested for soliciting a prostitute.

    http://www.ejhs.org/volume11/Golder.htm

    First of all the men are higher status than average. 36.3% of the men had a Bachelor’s or more compared with just over 25% in the population as a whole:

    “The demographic and personal history profile of this sample of customers of prostitutes fairly closely reflects that reported in previous research. The present sample was primarily white, well educated, employed, and either currently or previously married… Examination of the demographic characteristics from the present sample suggest that a more financially stable segment of American men are engaged in sex with prostitutes”

    Second.. and here’s the important part…. the men have MORE sex and voluntary sex partners than average men in the population. 40.2% of the men were married, and almost 77% of the men reported having a regular sex partner. (i.e. a girlfriend or fuck buddy). Almost all the men said they had compatible sexual desires with their partner. On average the men reported having 3 sex partners over the last 12 months, even though almost half are married. The men who had the most voluntary sex partners, and the most frequent sex generally were the men most likely to frequent prostitutes:

    “In the final models, only one of the candidate variables, number of sex partners, was a significant predictor of both frequency of sex generally and frequency of sex with a prostitute. Increasing numbers of partners was positively related to both dependent variables; in fact … the number of sexual partners was the most important predictor in each model. This finding suggests that rather than having more frequent sex with a single partner, the men in this sample who are having more frequent sex are engaging in more sex with more partners regardless of whether the women is a prostitute or not. “

    Like


  99. on September 25, 2008 at 12:16 pm Christopher Tracy

    #96:

    Somewhat. I believe I have non verbal learning disability. A psychologist ran the WISC on me when I was 14, and discovered a 40 point split between my verbal and spatial IQ. I think he was too old and out of the loop to find me a real diagnosis, but after researching this for so many years, I think I’ve found it. I fit the profile for these people down to a tee.

    Anyway, Roissy, I’ve got a dilemma that I think I may e-mail you about soon.

    Like


  100. Close-minded? Surely.

    Only if wanting your grandchildren to look like you is considered “closed-minded.”

    Like


  101. So in what way does a half-white half-Asian kid look like his Asian grandparents?

    Like


  102. Have you never seen an Asian/White kid?

    Like


  103. on September 25, 2008 at 12:55 pm Pope Goaz D'Weezil

    “I was never so lazy that handing over a few bills to a skank seemed like an acceptable substitute to going out and grinding my way through the field until I found a skank who wouldn’t request cash up front. ”

    This merely indicates your income level. Several hundred (or even thousand) dollars is worth it to some men for not spending even an hour chasing pussy. You can be in your hotel room working, have the girl show up, make your deposit, and see her on her way in 15 minutes. For someone whose time is money – a lot of money – this is a significantly better proposition than gaming some whore (they all are) in the bar downstairs for 10 minutes to get her to come up for the 15, and then have to explain to her why she needs to get the fuck out. As mentioned above, you don’t pay a prostitute for sex; you pay her to leave. It’s like buying a car online versus haggling with the salesman. Some guys just don’t have the time to haggle. Others suck at haggling, though, I admit.

    Like


  104. T Raw 16:
    What up man! Good observations wrt White “nerds” and Asian gals. I think the reason why there’s such a mutual attraction has a lot to do w/real and perceived racial differences/affinities that revolve around, on the female end, perceptions of feminity. Simply put, Asian women are seen as more feminine than White and definitely Black women, the latter being seen in a more more “aggressive” light. Witness the treatment Michelle Obama gets, for example, rightly or wrongly.

    That said, one of my best friend’s older brothers, who is Black, has taking whoring to a refined art. He makes it a point to visit and peruse all of a given locale’s brothels and the like, and here at home he’s a frequent customer of the Asian massage parlors.

    For my part though, I can’t say I’ve ever been attracted sexually to Asian women on the whole, except for a few rare exceptions. They don’t fit my physical liking, although I could make an exception for Michelle Malkin.;) And, years back I dated a gal who’s mom was a Filipina and who’s dad was Black. And my God, was she the Bomb.

    One more point. Someone here made the case that views wrt Whores etc are largely cultural. I would have to agree.

    Another good friend of mine told me about his shore leave while in the USMC, in Tokyo. He said that corporations there have their own Ho houses-Toyota has one, Honda has one, Toshiba, etc. And the things he said that goes on in such places are to be seen to be believed.

    I’ve never done the deed myself, not because of some sense of Romanticism, but rather more out of practical concerns. I didn’t want to mess around and contract an STD, especially not HIV or AIDS, and to be quite frank about it, I’m much too tightfisted w/my money, LOL, to go out like that. I’ll look but that’s about it.

    Holla back

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  105. in the military, getting hookers was a bonding experience between you and your buddies. it’s funny and makes for some good stories. most hooker encounters arent as simple as a convenience store transaction. a lot of weird and funny shit can happen when you’re running around in the underbelly of foreign and exotic places, usually under the influence of alcohol.

    for instance, one friend of mine, after finishing with a working girl, snuck upstairs in the whorehouse and found their rec room. nice leather couches, huge TV. he took a crap on the couch and left. dropping deuce in the hookerlair break room is where the real story is.

    no one i knew who was worth hanging out with would dress up, spritz up with some axe bodyspray, and solicit a hooker while sober. it was usually just a chapter during the course of some nightly adventure.

    Like


  106. w00t, there’s nothing wrong with his medulla oblongata.

    Just had to get those wretched, depraved hookers back for… being there, I guess.

    Like


  107. Re the Super Happy Rub ‘n’ Tug — I maintain that they’re good value, and in many ways a totally different animal from visiting whores. My experience in this field is only in Eastern Europe, mind you. It might be completely different in North America.

    Here’s why: few girlfriends, or prostitutes for that matter, will do for you what a good super-happy masseuse will do. What girlfriend would fetch you a drink, then strip naked and lovingly and skillfully massage you from head to toe for 45 minutes, even rubbing your temples, your feet, your ass, and then grease herself up with oil and then use her ass and tits to massage you even more? And then treat you to a long, drawn out, deliciously perfect handjob, and clean up the resulting mess with a smile? And then encourage you to take a little nap? I think such a girlfriend might not exist.

    Like


  108. You are Chinese, no? I am utterly shocked to know that you are aware of such things…

    Why be shocked? Born and raised in China, from a young age my relatives told me stories of little girls getting abducted and sold as lifetime farm workers and sex slaves. They pulled no punches, and the message was always rather clear: Don’t do stupid stuff.

    Then I moved to America, and from when I was 11 I was always on the computer and the Internet. There are some colorful personalities online, and some of them I have met in person. That, you could argue, was stupid. But really, white nerdy guys are not very threatening.

    In any case I felt like ignorance of the world around me was worse than knowledge, so I liked to be aware. That is partially why I am here and frequent various other forums and news aggregation services online.

    But of course they can always get some rough action on the side and get away with it due to their inscrutability. Best of both worlds, you could say.

    I can only speak for myself when I say that I don’t prefer such a world. It can be easily painful for us because we do tend to be smaller down there. But I know of Asian girls that have cheated on their guys, and one of them would have completely gotten away with it if she didn’t tell him.

    Admit it, Hope: the simple fact that you’re posting on this blog indicates that you get a thrill out of the idea of being seduced and ravished by some dissolute rogue.

    If that was the case why would I openly announce my adoration for my husband and my pregnant state? Makes little sense, no? I am here for the writing (my verbal SAT score was much higher than my math, and I love the pun threads on another online place I read). Even if I disagree with some of it, and I do disagree, it is nevertheless interesting. Speaking of which, your blog is a great read as well.

    Like


  109. Is there some special thrill in toothless addicts?

    The toothlessness could actually be an advantage in certain situations.

    Like


  110. on September 25, 2008 at 3:20 pm Christopher Tracy

    “no one i knew who was worth hanging out with would dress up, spritz up with some axe bodyspray, and solicit a hooker while sober.”

    That’s exactly what I did when I saw a hooker. I guess that makes me an omega male.

    Like


  111. I’ve never done the deed myself, not because of some sense of Romanticism, but rather more out of practical concerns.

    According to a study I read fifteen years ago, non streetwalking Western European prostitutes are actually fewer STDs, on average, than the general population. The reason is that they insist that their johns wear condoms.

    Like


  112. Markku,
    You may well be right, but STDs aren’t just limited to those of the condom variety. But you make a good point for the need for guys to be far more discriminating as to their sexual habits. For my part, I’ve always been very careful as to who’ve I’ve gotten involved with.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  113. whiskey said:Prostitution is ugly. It should be abolished. Johns who patronize it deserve the severest punishment, for society’s good. Let pr0n substitute. I’m not wild about that either, but it’s preferable to prostitution.

    I am surprised to here/read this from a man.
    WOW most men, well I don’t know.

    Like


  114. hope saidSome of them do not, but enough of them do that they want the white boy who is caring but gets rebuffed by white girls

    Why is getting rebuffed by white girls important ?

    T saidRAin and -Charlie Sheen falls under the type you mentioned.

    How so? I’d disagree

    Charlie said, the reason you see a working girl is because after you finish she just gets out, no questions asked. no cuddling, talking about feeling etc…

    Like


  115. I am surprised to here/read this from a man.
    WOW most men, well I don’t know.

    -chicnoir

    I’m not keen on prostitution either, but I mainly keep that to myself because I know it isn’t going away anytime soon.

    Like


  116. bateman:

    I’ve considered abandoning frequent gaming for the next year or so. I have prelims coming up in the spring and I spend ~80hr/week doing something related to school.

    dude!
    eighty hours a week, plus “frequent gaming” with a self-described average of ten to thirteen hours per woman?

    this doesn’t seem possible, unless either (a) you can get by on three hours’ sleep per night, or (b) your fiancée, who is apparently the madonna to all your whores, lives way, way out of town.

    which one is it?

    Like


  117. caveat lector:
    ok, i haven’t read through all the comments here; i stopped at around #30 or so.

    ok look, people. there are plenty of good solid reasons why some people may want to visit prostitutes. here are some.

    1) THEY JUST DON’T LIKE, DON’T UNDERSTAND, OR DON’T CARE ABOUT WOMEN

    seriously.

    some people WILL NOT be able to learn game, because they just don’t like socializing, or because they honestly don’t give a shit about other people’s feelings or about tapping into those feelings. (this is not “don’t give a shit” as in “tread all over”, but … “don’t give a shit” as in “are completely unaware of”.)

    other people CAN’T learn game, because their brains just aren’t made that way. i know lots of guys who can’t, and never will be able to, read other people AT ALL. they probably couldn’t read the body language of a psychotic brandishing a meat cleaver.

    these people should NOT bother trying to learn game, as the requisite socializing will drive them absolutely nuts. better to pay for the services of a ‘tute who won’t require, or even allow, socializing.

    2) THEY DON’T HAVE TIME

    self-explanatory.

    mystery is mystery, but he still requires several hours per woman.

    ciaran (before he found jesus) could use shock and awe and sometimes score within an hour, but he had a high failure rate.

    if i were an i-banker with a 95 hour work week, fuck that. i like sleep even more than i like sex.

    3) THEY HAVE BEEN BURNED BADLY

    i don’t mean “laughed at or scorned by women”. i mean taken to the cleaners in a nasty divorce, or falsely accused of rape/sexual violence, or victimized in any of the scores of other ways in which our society allows, nay, encourages women to victimize men.

    i know my share of guys who have been burned so badly that they will never even consider a relationship again. these guys are perfectly fine with paying for it.

    4) THEY’RE RICH

    my awesome seat-of-the-pants calculations say that a dude who makes $700k a year is pulling in an average of about $80 every hour of every day, including the time he spends sleeping, shitting, and fucking.

    $300 an hour is to this type of dude what $10 an hour is to the average american.
    how many people on this forum would change their tune real quick if they could have playmate quality tail for the hourly rate of those shitty water massagers at the mall?
    i thought so.

    i’m with roissy, though.
    i like to build connections, and, frankly, i don’t even terribly like sex without some sort of connection. that connection could range from mutual adoration to mutual hatred, but it must be there.
    i’d take porn over a pro, even if the pro’s services were gratis, unless the pro were one of that rare breed who actually enjoy and get into their “work”. unfortunately, according to my secondhand knowledge, that rare breed comprises almost entirely “mature” women, dominatrices, and/or “zaftig” types. not infrequently all of the above simultaneously.
    sigh…

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  118. #117

    I’m a beta who has used hookers on a semi-regular basis, and I agree with your post entirely. I just don’t get my kicks from interacting with people in real life. I don’t own a phone at all, I don’t have a desire to make friends, and I enjoy time spent alone much more than I enjoy any sort of inter-personal activities. With that said, I still want to get laid, and so if I’m somewhere where I can get a decent-looking and clean hooker, I have and I enjoyed the physical aspect, while knowing that as soon as I bust, she can have a paper towel and take off.

    It doesn’t hurt that my last job had me constantly going to Mexico, where the cost of “renting” a woman is about 1/5 to 1/3 what it is here, making it easier to qualify for the rich category as well.

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  119. if i were an i-banker with a 95 hour work week

    Of course many i-bankers now have a zero hour work week.

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  120. What kind of man uses a hooker? I think fucking a hooker is just shy of fucking a corpse.

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  121. Personally I’ve never had the desire to use hookers and the like, for the aforementioned reasons. That said, I’m ambivalent on the question in a public polciy context, and the more I think about Game, I can understand more deeply Roissy’s position.

    For him, and so many guys in the seduction community, it’s more than simply sex; its about the experience, the connection these guys have with the woman of their dreams. In a big way that’s lost when one engages hookers. True, things are alot more straightforward, but the connection and the like is lost.

    I dont know if anyone here’s read a book called My Secret Life? It was the autobiography of a Victorian Age gentleman, about all of his sexual experiences. Roissy would like it, that is, if he hasn’t read it already.

    Anyway, my point in bringing it up is in mentioning the fact that “Walter” says that one would be surprised which women would accept money to turn a trick. This is in response to T’s earlier comments in the thread along these lines. Walter gives instance after instance in My Secret Life where women who weren’t “ladies of the evening” had no problem getting busy for a crown or half a crown. And to be honest, I think much of that holds true today.

    Hmm…

    Salaam
    Mu

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  122. I would think the guy who goes to the AMP is not a looser. I have been doing a documentary on them for the last 3 years and most of the clients are wealthy. Actually, they range from firemen to politicians. The guys who get street girls are usually in that for the hunt and it is cheaper, the ones that go to AMPs have to spend 200, so you can’t be a looser and afford that.

    Check out my documentary where I have been following 3 of the women who work in these spas over the past 3 years in RI where prostitution is legal as the politicians try to change the law.

    http://www.happyendingsdoc.com

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  123. I’ve been going to an Asian Massage Parlor for years. Doesn’t anyone on this page live on planet earth??? Loser, Winner, Oh My God!!! Fucking Morons!!! A Beautiful, usually Very Young Woman, spends an hour or so, rubbbing her pretty body all over you. Every time you go, she remembers exactly what made you Cum the hardest the last time she stroked you off… So your fed the ultimate turn on, prolonged until your about to explode and then lovingly told to enjoy it, as she pumps your cock to it’s last possible spurt….
    So OK, I’ve just told the truth and explained what is probably the Best Case Senario of paid for erotic entertainment… But not one of you wasn’t thinking Yeah, it’s great to Cum Hard!!! I fought it for a long time and finally gave up… The truth of the matter is whomever you are whatever you are, comercial sex is a sex enhancing experience and it’s powerfully addictive!!! It doesn’t matter why you first went with a hooker, or even paid a buck for a kiss in some Church Bazzar, Yes, I will devote this amount of time to your body and brain’s pleasure zones, is addictive and GREAT Stuff!!! Many of the Asian places know this and are very affordable to their good customers… Instead of writing all this shit back and forth, pick up your local rag sheet, go on craglist, whatever, and give one of them a call… Then write me in the morning… 🙂

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  124. I have nade love to many prostitutes. I san make them come like a volcano! You wanna-be alphas dont know how to turn a woman on!! you have to truly pleasure her,for example using “genital-based” breathing,using the fingers to massage the cervix–I can make that cold hearted hooker melt into a loving one..and 1/2 the time I dont even pay!!!! ha ha you “alpha’s” are more like betas,and the betas…omegas!!!

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  125. Seriously, Roissy you are very immature and I thought you were smarter than that. I’m a business men I know that nothing is free. The time and money you spend with a girl is basically the same thing as paying money to get sexual favors. Why risk the possibility of getting nothing, when you know you are guaranteed poon from a hot bitch? Yes you can get laid for free… but was the emotional and time worth it? It’s really economical to get a smoking hooker for 100 bucks a hour if you think about it. A dinner or drink date will be 30-50 bucks… u do it a few times… and get nothing there u wasted 90-150 on nothing. I rather spend the money to order and do what I want to a smoking hot bitch or two.

    Personally I think there is nothing wrong with hookers or strippers, in the end they are just honest about their intentions. Dating and marriage is a formal way of prostitution, you negotiate and try to convince the bitch how much money and time for her pussy. That said it is worth the time and money to invest in a hot long-term girlfriend. The payoff is great.. too bad men like me have a short attention span and get bored easily.

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  126. You hear all the same arguments about prostitutes that you hear about drugs.

    The truth is that the vast majority of problems associated with these activities occurs only because of their illegal status.

    Sure, drugs and prostitution have socially deleterious effects. They cause psychological damage and health problems. But the violence, disease, and general shadiness that accompanies these activities would not exist if they were regulated reasonably.

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  127. on July 13, 2009 at 1:30 am unlearning genius

    Dude, you are not alpha if you have to actually work to get laid. A true alpha has poon chasing him, desperately trying to snare him. That does not look like you. It is more like you have a hobby of spending your time attempting to persuade women into bedding you. You saying that you enjoy interacting with women and all that blah is just post rationalization. In many animal groups, the betas are constantly “trying” to impregnate the females.. the alphas are out establishing their dominance .. they have no time to mingle with the girls except of course for a quickie .. you see that my friend is real alpha….not having to work for anything other than to preserve dominance .. in many species social dominance does not neccasarily correlate with reproductive success. Also mating success is not neccasarily equivalent to reproductive success.

    You have written a lot of articles saying that women are emotional beings just listening to their hindbrain.. what bullshit .. if you had a hot woman chasing you and tempting you .. would you not bed her? .. of course you would …
    and your only criterion for bedding her is that in the EEA (envirnoment of evolutionary adaptedness), her immune system was good against parasites ..(that is it) .. maybe looks correlates with social intelligence .. but it does not correlate with reasoning, compassion and other skills that actually are unique to our species …

    You are just a man child that is jeolous of the sexual power that a tiny subset of women possess .. you have to work to get them, you have play all these games, spend hours attending to these stimuli .. hours that could instead be invested in learning a trade .. that could one day make you a lot richer .. and then you can bang hookers all you want ..

    Do not get me wrong, i understand the need to develop a solid inner game of confidence and the self control to restrain your sexual energy, but saying that the only way to deal with this is by trying to hunt for and bang as many sluts as you can is just rationalization ..

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  128. on July 13, 2009 at 1:52 am unlearning genius

    The real problem with life is that your time and energy are limited .. if we all had to blindly follow our genetic programming, we would just be less human… My own brain has different needs.. my hindbrain just wants to fuck as many symmetrical faced parasite defenders as i can .. my neocortex would rather not socialize at all .. it would rather spend time in abstract thought … in contemplating the beauty of the universe .. I would rather be an outgroup omega .. than to numb my brains just to please my hindbrain ..

    Enter prostitution .. and i have best of both worlds .. The truth of the matter is that it would take me work to change and learn .. time i would rather spend doing other stuff .. increasing my SOCIETAL status … my own value system would cringe if all I achieved in life was increased venusian skills .. this is not the be all and end all of existance ..

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  129. I go to pros quite a bit at this point in my life. And I would go more if I could afford it. Some are great and some are shitty, but all in all I keep going back. I guess there are a few reasons I do it.

    I have banged a lot of girls over the years that weren’t pros, ranging from the underaverage to high end of the physical scale. I can say that i am hard pressed to think of one that was not an enjoyable exprience in one way or another. As I get older though I find that it is harder for me to pick up chicks in the bar for simple one night stand. I do go less but I would say my outings are definitely less succsesful as well. Some nights I can spend just as much money, way more time, and wake up hung over with no score. Going to a pro can be very effeincent means of sexual gratufication.

    Visiting a pro can sometimes be a turn on in its self. The risk asociated with it. The mere act of sexual experience with a complete stranger. The fact that you can request what exactly you want. (you can with a normal girl, but it is def easier when you are paying for the services, and more likely they well do what you want).

    You get to pick your quality.

    You get to do it when you want.

    You get different things offerd to you that you normally can’t find, like Tranny pros.

    Also let me mention, that on a few occasions I have seen pros that have hired before, in the bars on thier nights off, getting picked up by dudes. I know when I get a BJ from a pro I wear a jimmy, but not usaully when you pick up a skank from the bar.

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  130. let me put out there, maybe the need for variety and intense sensation for turn on ect. is not a symptom of prostitution. The need for these things is a symptom of another problem, and frequenting prostutes is an asprin to the headache.

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  131. what bullshit this is

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  132. […] it’s not necessarily beta to pay for sex, it is a leading indicator of betaness. If you are a wealthy man with money to burn, it makes sense to dump a wad of cash on a woman to […]

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  133. Sex is just sex, what does it matter if you pay for it? Do you feel like a loser paying for a great meal? You would say maybe, “Yes, if you could get it for free.” But you can’t get it for free. Even if you don’t spend money on a non-whore girl you still have to blow hours going out (and spend money on drinks, etc.), finding one you like, “talking” to her, and so on. By contrast, prostitution is simple and quick. The fact that it “makes you feel like a loser” proves you pursue sex for an ego-trip more than for the physical act. When I go out for a good meal I just care about the food.

    On the other hand, American prostitutes must be the world’s ugliest and most disgusting and I would never hire one, the price is too high anyway. But you’d have to be mentally ill to call a guy who hires a girl in Thailand a “loser” because he didn’t want to go out to Thai bars and practice game.

    Choice A: you go into a room and 15 gorgeous girls are presented to you, you take your pick, pay a low price and have her for the night, no complications.

    Choice B: you learn “game” for months on the internet, practicing in real life, being an apprentice to an “alpha,” then when you have the hang of it you go out for hours at various bars until you find a girl you like, or not, and try your hand at seducing any number of them. Maybe you’ll get lucky with someone you really like, maybe not. Maybe you’ll get lucky with her not that night but another night. But you wanted it that night.

    If you choose B over A you’re mentally ill. If you do it because choice A makes you “feel like a loser,” you’re a latent homo.

    I am hoping that a new Depression will open up the whore market in the US too. You must understand also that there are a lot of men who have other things on their mind and have no patience to go out seducing. This could be that they’re working on a big project at work and don’t have time or energy to blow hours going out, or that they’re having great family or personal problems, or maybe it’s an astrophysicist or cosmologist or something similar who prefers to think about other things.

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  134. Ths is a very amusing post, peoples perceptions are so ridiculous, I pay someone cut my hair, clean my teeth, why not pay someone for an hour or so of gratification without the guilt, or worry about hurting some desperate bar girl.

    Its a transaction pure and simple. I an not talking about street hookers, some of the girls from what I have “been told” are exceptionally beautiful and sexy certainly above the quality of the 2:00 am bar hag that with a drink or 2 would be willing to have sex with you. Some times men need non-committment sex, and don’t feel like playing games, or spend a few hours plying some unsuspecting women with alcohol, with no intention of ever calling her again.

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  135. this to me correalates to video games.

    some guys have to use cheat codes to beat the game and others just keep playing the game until they beat it.

    if you use the cheat codes, sure you’ll beat the game in short order, but it”s a hollow victory…..when you complete the game using your skill, it’s a much better feeling…..u won based on merit.

    Liked by 1 person


  136. Most guys use hookers for the excitement of the situation rather than the enjoyment of the “sex.”

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  137. […] is an oldie but goodie Chateau post about paying for sex. It examines the lives of two very different men who ponied up hard cash for […]

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  138. on March 21, 2011 at 10:25 am They're All Whores Except My Mother

    What kind of guy would pay for sex? The kind who has some type of interest in sex, which basically means almost every male from 13 to 80.

    What has happened in many wealthy Western countries over the last 100-150 years or so is that the prostitution has become less convenient and unpaid sex has become more convenient. So nowadays prostitutes are relatively scarce and expensive. There is a strong social stigma attached to prostitution. Finally there are alternatives available- lots of slutty women willing to have sex without a set transaction fee (although many are gold diggers who take money in a less straight forward way). There is also lots of porn available.

    Added together this means less guys paying whores upfront than there were in the 1860s, 1930s or 1940s. But at the end of the day it really makes no difference why a woman fucks. It just depends on how attractive she is, how good the pussy is, how much resources it takes to get the pussy and whether she’s going to burn you or not.

    The other thing is, if you take the average Western guy and put him into an environment where paying for sex is the most convenient option then most guys will pay for it. I’m thinking of foreign countries where there are lots of cheap whores catering to tourists but it may be hard to talk to non-pro women due to cultural or language barriers.

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