Some Great Age Negs

If you routinely date younger women, this age neg works well to set an advantageous frame for yourself.

You: How old are you?

Her: 28.

You: Wow, I never would have guessed.

Let it drop after that. The neg is stuctured in such a way that if said with a straight face and raised eyebrows will make her wonder whether you would’ve guessed younger or older. If she persists in knowing what you meant, then ignore her and change the subject, or answer evasively.

Her: What do you mean??

You: I dunno. You just don’t… fit… your age. Btw, you ever see couples that don’t seem to fit right, but then they’re like the happiest couples in the world?

You really want to keep her confused about how she is being perceived by you. That is what builds intrigue, and intrigue is the rebar of female attraction.

Here are a couple more frame-setting age negs that work no matter what the age difference between you and the girl.

Her: How old are you?
You: You first.
Her: 25.
You: Oh oh.
Her: What?
You: I don’t normally date older women. They have too many issues in my experience.

This neg is especially effective when the girl is considerably younger than yourself. Imagine a 35 year old guy telling a 22 year old girl she’s too old for him. It quickly reverses the frame in your favor.

***

Her: How old are you?
You: Guess.
Her: 28.
You: Close. And you’re… 27.
Her: No, 23.
You: Oh no, really?
Her: Yeah, why?
You: I like to date older women. Everyone knows they’re more mature and classy.

Notice I used the term “everyone knows”. It’s a bit jarring in the context of this short conversation, but that doesn’t matter. Girls are very sensitive to groupthink, so my words will have the intended effect — to put her in the role of the one seeking approval.





Comments


  1. An all-purpose alternative is “they don’t play games as much.” It doesn’t matter if you’re talking about women who are older or younger than she is — if older, she’ll interpret it as “are more mature,” and if younger, as “has less baggage.”

    Girls tense up at the thought of being perceived as fake or playing games — 90% of their speech acts center on how fake other girls are, and she doesn’t want to be “that girl.” Plus to qualify herself, she’ll start being even more direct and flirtatious.

    “So who dared you to do that?” is another one I use when a girl approaches me first, like grinding on the dance floor. It serves the same purpose: accuse her of being fake and just doing what her friends tell her to do, and she’ll stick around to prove she’s worth your respect. Guaranteed to work even on 16 year-olds.

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  2. Maybe if you are talking to a 21 year old woman, or younger. Besides that, age doesn’t have any impact over what you gonna say next.
    Sometimes someone that seems a cool guys just destroyd everything that girl have created about him after 5 minutes of conversation.
    Sometimes guys that barely keep my eyes on him, turn the game with a such good conversation.

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  3. Imagine a 35 year old guy telling a 22 year old girl she’s too old for him. It quickly reverses the frame in your favor.

    That’s one of the stupidest things I’ve ever read. The man’s chances of scoring with the girl will drop to zero, and quickly. She’ll think you’re a Gannonesque pervert.

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  4. roissy, could you do a post on game for college students looking to meet/attract other college students? thanks.

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  5. @2 — I love so many women expect men to entertain you with fantastic conversation, jokes, whatever.

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  6. @4

    Zdeno’s guide to scoring in college

    1) Bathe

    2) Have correct number of fingers and toes

    3) Say anything to a pretty girl 3x/week

    4) Once you have done #3, do not make a conscious effort to repel her

    Complete these four trials, and you will truly be a jedi master of college game padowon.

    Liked by 1 person


  7. Believe it or not Peter, most women prefer a pervert over a Loser.

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  8. @5 – If you are not into conversations, what’s strategy works for you? i was just wondering…
    @7 – If a girl just want to fuck around, easy the choice will be the pervert.

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  9. on August 24, 2008 at 1:10 am anonymous_coward

    @3, not if you say it in a ambiguously-joking way.

    @6, you forgot 2.5) Enter the party jungle, where the ethanol flows free

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  10. My older brother is a natural. He doesn’t need shit like this. In fact, I think he would be ashamed to actually connive like this. This is ideal.

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  11. When a guy who’s not Gay or a platonic friend asks my age, I assume that he’s wife shopping, or deciding whether or not I’m good enough that shagging me would boost his ego or bragging scrapbook or something.

    Either way, he’s looking for some kind of social validation that I make a point not to provide to people who aren’t doing anything particularly special for me.

    I had that issue when I was younger, and looked younger than I actually was. I still have it now that I’m older and still look younger than I am. There are some creepy guys around my age looking for a gullible kid, and some equally creepy youngsters looking for an easy old maid.

    So my answer to the age question is usually, “Look, don’t try to bargain me down. My dad’s not letting me go for less than 50 camels and 3 goats,” or, “I’m legal.” Something to that effect. A primitive question gets a primitive answer. Sometimes though, I just want to get rid of them, and don’t want to bat around their balls of yarn cause I don’t have the patience at the moment, and I just tell them, and then tell them to go away.

    My age isn’t their business until we’re starting to talk about issues in which age would matter. So if it’s such a big deal to them at the beginning, I know I’m being shopped for like a used car, not a human being.

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  12. on August 24, 2008 at 2:45 am random passerby

    I guess the idea of simply talking to people normally is too crazy to work. If you need to use elaborate, precisely planned and calculated routines, lines and systems to make people like you, then what’s the point? Why do people bother with these childish games?

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  13. Sorry Nicole, age is an issue for any man who is looking to found a family:when I saw your pictures estimated that you are around 36, seeing that you are 38 shows that you pretty much look your age.

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  14. My age isn’t their business until we’re starting to talk about issues in which age would matter. So if it’s such a big deal to them at the beginning, I know I’m being shopped for like a used car, not a human being.

    i sorta agree that u shouldn’t normally be asked ur age- at least at the beginning. i would have guessed close to ur age like gannon just did. a guy who sees u and really can’t tell ur age (or guess close to it) is:
    1) really stupid
    2) trying to deliberately ask u ur age to try to make u feel uncomfortable (i.e. a ‘neg’)

    however, if the relationship is getting serious, u should spill the beans if asked.

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  15. Guys in my high school used to age-neg girls all the time. It was no big deal.

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  16. Freak Show, no guessing was necessary. I’ve told my age here already in a recent comment. He took off a couple of years to make himself look less obvious. This tiny photo is hardly clear enough to guess age from. Plus, I’m wearing considerably more makeup in it than I normally would.

    People who see me in real life guess my age at around 22-25 when they don’t know me, which is one reason my street value, which I found out recently, is scale for a college student.

    Street value is about the coldest indicator of a woman’s looks based worth that there is. In that business, someone starts to be used up or “old” by around 25 or sooner. I’m glad not to be in that business. For that reason, my age is irrelevant to someone I’m not even shagging yet, much less planning to have kids with.

    By the way, I personally think I look my age. It’s just that women who are older than me lie about their age, and too many women younger than me are turning themselves into prunes with crappy lifestyles. Women who take care of themselves the way I do, don’t have wrinkles at 38, and barely at 45-50. My grandmother had perfect skin until 45, and good skin until she was about 55-ish, and then started to get a few lines here and there gradually. She didn’t actually look old until her late 60’s. Mom looks like she’ll follow in grandma’s footsteps in that.

    I understand it’s an issue for a guy who wants to have children (with the body of the woman he’s committed to) but when you first meet someone, and ask their age, that’s like asking them if they ovulate on time every month or something, or when their last menstruation was. It’s just not your business.

    …and like I said, when guys ask before it’s their business, I usually give them a “bust in the chops” answer, like, “Why? Are you looking for your birth mother?” or a straight answer, but either way, I cease to be interested in them. Whatever it is will be followed by a loss of further attention from me.

    Maybe I’m old fashioned, but I believe it’s just plain rude to ask a woman her age. It was even back in the days when it was more obvious that men were trying to gauge our worth based on our reproductive status.

    If I was 20 and infertile, I’d probably find it an extremely hurtful question.

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  17. For what my opinion is worth, Nicole, you look young to me in your photos. I would have guessed you to be about 30-ish.

    You leave out one important issue in your discussion of “crappy lifestyles”: fair-skinned women who have taken up the wickedly aging habit of sun-tanning. It’s funny – white women who grew to maturity in the 1980s all knew that the sun was their enemy, but somewhere along the line that lesson got lost, and they took up tanning again.

    Fortunately, the temptation to tan is much less for darker-skinned women, which is why Lena Horne looked like a babe into her 60s.

    Clio

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  18. on August 24, 2008 at 6:47 pm sara short heels

    S.O.S. different day.

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  19. on August 24, 2008 at 7:03 pm Usually Lurking

    I guess the idea of simply talking to people normally is too crazy to work.

    Yes, everyone knows that girls go to clubs for the normal conversations.

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  20. on August 24, 2008 at 7:08 pm Usually Lurking

    It’s funny – white women who grew to maturity in the 1980s all knew that the sun was their enemy, but somewhere along the line that lesson got lost, and they took up tanning again.

    Clio, what I saw was “intelligent” (i.e. Upper Class, Upper Middle Class) women going away from tanning because of Skin Cancer and other reasons, while the less intelligent party-loving, beach-going set soaked up as much as they could.

    Growing up watching MTV Spring Break and Real World Miami has an affect on you.

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  21. Older Gent’s guide to sexually aging gracefully:

    1. Bang a ton in your youth before settling down for a spell with the bird you knocked up, all while smoking and drinking to excess

    2. Notice as you approach your late 30s that all the smoking and drinking has made you want to fuck less, divorce/break up with the bird but try to stay friends so as to have minimal kid custody issues

    3. Enjoy your golden years of not following the dicates of your cock 24/7 beyond some porn and some occasional hook-ups and trips to Bangkok, as you steel yourself for your death of emphysema and/or liver failure

    4. Rinse, repeat in next reincarnation

    Like


  22. Corollary to above:

    1. If you are a young man who wants to fuck a whole lot of women, figure this out as early as you can, then instead of wasting a ton of time and effort trying to master roissy’s dubious gambits, simply figure out a location and income stream that will allow you to bang prostitutes as often as you like (or near enough as is possible). Caveat: Don’t be a douchebag when it comes to pros, pay them promptly the agreed-upon sum for their services, likewise don’t badmouth them if they’re crap but don’t recommend them to your mates either.

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  23. While we are on the topic of conversation with the ladies, can any of the players tell us what sort of conversational topics are safe these days? Which are verboten?

    I wouldn’t ask the ladies on this board because according to Roissy they simply will not tell you the truth.

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  24. Clio, it’s kind of weird, this tanning thing. I know people who tanned, but not to excess, who age just fine. Some even go a little too far, but still look okay.

    I think it’s a combination of things, not just sunbathing. A person who spends alot of time outdoors, like a fisherman, knows he has to do something to protect his skin. When it starts feeling uncomfortable, he’ll automatically put on a hat, a shirt, or something.

    It’s people ignoring their natural signals that causes the problem, in my opinion…not just spending too much time in the sun, but also low activity, not drinking enough water, eating crap food, etc.

    Some folks have a hard life and don’t have a choice, but they still look good well into their 60’s, and look pretty good for old folks until they die…like the old people you want to take advice and get a cuddle from…you know what I mean.

    An old lady with laugh lines, and strength lines, I might want to spend some time looking at. I doubt it’s so much different for males even though their desires are more attuned to breeders.

    I think another culprit is chemical. Overuse of hair dyes, makeup made of goodness knows what, and so-called beauty treatments that don’t actually do anything, or might make things worse.

    Hmmm…if the guys want to comment on something age related to break the ice, they might try noticing when one of the younguns stands out as better maintained.

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  25. Nicole —

    Men like women are intensely social animals, and no we don’t all value women for their “breeding” ability. Men often value older women as friends, relatives, etc.

    Just not as potential mates.

    Older women are often the most invisible to young women (late teens to early twenties).

    As for suntanning, it might be related to “self-medication” for depression. UV exposure via sunlight produces reputedly, a lot of hormones that include some that produce good feelings.

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  26. Nicole, just based on your photo, I think of you as “ageless”. I mean that almost literally, as in you could say you’re anything from 25 to 45 and you could pull it off. I suspect you’re aware of this, and push estimates up or down simply by adopting different mannerisms of speech, or different makeup. You’re lucky that way. On the other hand, men ask you your age a lot probably because they’re aware of that “ageless” quality too.

    I noticed some Asian women have it too. Notice it’s not “looking younger than”, it’s also “could be older”.

    You’d make a good operative or spy of some kind. Of course, you probably are.

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  27. There are some creepy guys around my age looking for a gullible kid

    I think you misspelled “selective” and “ripe fruit.”

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  28. PatrickH, who cares how ageless she looks, that’s annoying beta supplication. The fact is she looks severely overweight, so yeah, so she could be a fat 25 year old or a fat 40 year old, but at that point who cares.

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  29. […] Some Great Age Negs If you routinely date younger women, this age neg works well to set an advantageous frame for yourself. You: How old […] […]

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  30. Men often value older women as friends, relatives, etc. Just not as potential mates.

    this is an important distinction. probably the vast majority of guys are going to be a lot more apprehensive about financially taking care of a chick who’s older and less attractive than a comparable younger, nubile chick.

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  31. Peter–

    “That’s one of the stupidest things I’ve ever read. The man’s chances of scoring with the girl will drop to zero, and quickly. She’ll think you’re a Gannonesque pervert.”

    You’re such a retarded idiot Peter.

    There’s nothing at all perverted about Gannon. He’s full of wisdom in fact.

    Look, I’ve never been especially attracted to teen girls. My first sexual experience when I was 14 in a summer community where I lied and said I was 18 and headed to Harvard rather than the Harvard feeder prep school I was actually headed to (as pulled off all summer) was first with a 19 year old Columbia college girl, and then with her 18 year old friend. Heaven. Yeah they were teens but as close to in their 20s as I could manage.

    I’m much older now. While I’ve never been fixated on young teen girls, I could always understand and also felt a sexual attraction to them once they started becoming women, that is filling out. Breasts and hips. Active flirting. You can tell even with small breasted girls if you pay any attention to that sort of thing, i.e. are a highly sexual male and haven’t blinkered yourself with feminist or other propaganda.

    In the sixties and early seventies it was widely accepted that 14 and 15 year old girls, not to mention sixteen years olds where just about everyone would agree it’s obvious as hell, where very sexually attractive to normal men. What changed? Feminism came around. Feminists were concerned that older (often twenties) guys dating or even marrying mid teen girls was based upon a male dominant / female submissive, male knowledgeable / female innocent model, which was and still is anathema to their world view. They were at least partly right about the dynamics of the attraction — but it absolutely DID and does run both ways, if the girl isn’t both utterly steeped in the ideology and inclined to obey the regnant orthodoxy.

    Anyway before reading Gannon here I was well aware of the complete BS and life destroying hypocracy and/or ideologically based misinformation/lying that it’s pedophilia and unnatural for men say ten or more years older to be attracted to girls say 15 or 16 years old, who weren’t very abnormally late developers (as a few girls, yes especially E Asians but a minority there too) are. But I also didn’t see any great benefit in the modern world to say 25 yo guys dating or marrying 15 to 18 yo girls.

    Gannon has some really convincing reasons why it can be a great benefit for both the guy AND the girl. I’m still not ready to prescribe it for everyone, there’s quite a bit given up, and there are trade offs. But it’s a reasonable and very well though out position.

    I’m inclined even to say it’s brilliant. It goes so much against the current feminist grain, especially in the US but even somewhat outside the Anglosphere but in the developed West, i.e. the rest of Europe — so far as I know. Maybe it’s a little less thinking outside the box and coming up with something really interesting than I think it is. That is maybe it’s not such a novel idea in e.g. Germany where he was once from. But it’s new to me.

    What am I taking about. Not that 16yo girls are hot. That’s known everywhere but the US, and secretly here too. It’s rather that if you really want a woman to love you for life, get her before she’s loved and reloved three or four or six guys before you, and slept with twenty or sixty or more. He just might be right, usually. (It’s all an odds game of course. SOME woman can intensely love the sixth time as well as the first I suppose, I just haven’t met any myself — though I have read lots of theorists to that effect.)

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  32. As for your “glorious natural pelt” — I take that for some combination of a fetishistic fixation, and a pose with the object of “attracting a niche demographic” by the scarcity of your preference when men are given the choice.

    Because you know, the girls are right, all us normal guys with more than a little experience both ways prefer it bald or at the very least sculpted to a narrow landing strip well above the crucial bits, or some such. I guess a triangle up there could be hot too. Maybe.

    Now I’ll grant you, if you aren’t in the habit of getting up close and personal, face wise with that part of a lovely’s anatomy, both for licking pleasure and well just general play and display (which for that matter is much enhanced by bald and pinkly showing at middle distances as well), then the civilized shave or wax may not be a big deal for you.

    But you see the girls have long since decided they were all into encouraging lover face time down there, and lots of it.
    That’s a big deal for them. Hence they shave or wax. QED.

    One of the good things our hottiies have learned from internet porn (together with some less good things).

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  33. Romeo, you are such a retard you must be that guy who made a nullity of himself a few posts back. Commenter_fuckfaceloser. That guy. I think you’re just “me”‘s latest incarnation.

    Romeo, “me”, commenter_nullity, whatever the fuck your nothingness is trying to cloak its emptiness as today…who cares what you think about what I think about how old Nicole looks? Jesus, what fucking difference could it possibly make in my life what you care about or don’t care about? I was pointing something out about Nicole. Does it occur to you that it might be…true?

    I don’t care if you live or die, whoever the fuck you are. So I don’t care what flushing oozing sensations you get in your torso when you read my comment to Nicole. She and I are in any case as far beyond your comprehension as human beings are to the cilia on the membrane of a protozoan blob. Or maybe the tinytinytiny little buglet thingies that live on those cilia.

    Beta supplication is way further up the alphabet than the omega-grade anal seepage you just gifted us with. So what if you think something is “beta” this or that or the other fucking thing? You’re not even alphabetical…omega-grade is the designation given to the nothing-maunderings of the inhabitants of the zeroth astral plane, the ones who fell off the end of the alphabet when they were handing out moral and intellectual worth and ran out by the time they got to you.

    So fuck off Romeo. And don’t think you can avoid detection by switching nicks. You stink of the void that lies at your empty nothing heart. It’s your signature…the sound of no hands clapping! Or doing anything worthwhile at all!

    If you’re not “me”, it doesn’t matter. You’re no better. So, take a hint…disappear up your own fundamental aperture. Stop pretending to exist. You don’t. Deal with it.

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  34. ll us normal guys with more than a little experience both ways prefer it bald or at the very least sculpted to a narrow landing strip well above the crucial bits, or some such. I guess a triangle up there could be hot too. Maybe.

    Speak for yourself. The Bald Eagle look is disgusting and pedophilic. Oh, and by the way, normal adult men may acknowledge that 16-year-old girls can be hot, but they also realize that actual relationships with the girls (even if legal) would be inappropriate and, most likely, doomed to failure.

    Reality check: women do NOT turn into dried-out barren husks at age 25. It’s too bad that so many keyboard warriors have never realized that point.

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  35. I believe Gannon is correct with his insight into the current pattern of romance. A woman has very many partners in urban areas (in NYC it is around 25-30), and in places like NYC (with 25% of adults with STDs) is quite likely to have an STD as well. Given that such figures include people who were likely not sexually active for decades, and then in monogamous relationships (the elderly, who come from another Universe in how the sexes related).

    It is quite difficult for women to form attachments after that many lovers. The national average for partners is around 9, and even that pushes it. Again, in urban areas that will be much much higher and numbers around 40 are not uncommon for educated and professional women in NYC.

    In Jane Austen’s day, marriage between 15-16 year olds and 25 or older men was not considered unusual or disagreeable. BUT, there was a problem — in Pride and Prejudice, when her younger sister Lydia is unsupervised, she runs off with a guy who is a total scoundrel and could leave her with a ruined life (as a prostitute), the guy then has to be bribed essentially to marry her sister by the good guy of the novel, Mr. Darcy.

    Girls in their teens, if left to their own devices, will ALWAYS choose something like a drug-addled biker with a rap sheet. They’re by definition dumb and will choose reliably the guy with the highest testosterone. There is no real prospect of older women now guiding girls to make wise not stupid choices in men. Nor will sexual activity be delayed so that girls can make bad boyfriend choices without having sex and degrading the effect of hormones that promote attachment.

    We are just going to have to live with the effects of modern mating: girls chasing forever after the hot guy with largest amounts of testosterone into adulthood, becoming single mothers, with a large amount of unattached guys expressing various forms of misogyny (unsurprisingly).

    Everything has it’s price. Including sexual freedom.

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  36. a large amount of unattached guys expressing various forms of misogyny (unsurprisingly)

    Maybe they should be counting their blessings and spending their extra cash on improving their lives. I estimate that I have saved several thousand dollars by not having a girlfriend. Hell, if I had a good paying job, I could blow the money on a nice car, vacations to various places around the world, and on my niece and nephews.

    becoming single mothers

    Wouldn’t these women cash out on child support checks from their alphas male counterparts? Secondly, who are all these white middle class women dating drug dealers and criminals? Interestingly from my vantage point, there’s basically a pool of below average and average looking (and sometimes college educated) white women who are simply holding out for men who will never come to them, while the above average are circling around the successful men for long-term purposes, and going after exciting men like Roissy or Roosh for short-term needs.

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  37. One of the good things our hottiies have learned from internet porn (together with some less good things).

    Besides shaving, the women have learned nothing. Reports of awful blowjobs are commonplace, and anal sex is still pointless with normal women. Clothes are still geared towards being fashionable and not overtly slutty, flats are still popular, makeup use isn’t heavy enough, and I’m still waiting for my fake acrylic nailed queen to appear.

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  38. When I say above “I just haven’t met any”, I speak from what for this blog I guess will be old timer, boomer, but alpha boomer, experience.

    As in many scores of women for mutual fun (not gonna say on which side of 100) when I count them all up best I can, a score or two in addition to that for money (almost all for the bohemian experience of it all, almost always outside the US but almost never if there wasn’t some sort of connection also — yeah really, if was shit otherwise,

    You aren’t gonna believe this but in many cultures at least some, better whores are more like party girls, or they want to be and will be if given half a chance. They need money from clients/johns to live and live pretty well, but they’re also really often high sex drive/slut inclined, and LOVE to have fun with guys that can get them off, and when that starts to happen, all the extras and a lot more besides are totally off the meter.) If this happens (except as a freak occurance maybe) in the US including anywhere in Nevada it’s news to me, and I kinda think I’d know.

    If men think they have it good in America they have NO IDEA what they are talking about. Men are oppressed in America.

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  39. but they also realize that actual relationships with the girls (even if legal) would be inappropriate

    This is awesome, btw — like if 98% of guys were in the priesthood. Buncha moronic suckers.

    Reality check: women do NOT turn into dried-out barren husks at age 25.

    You’re right, it’s more like 27, with 25 – 26 being a limbo state.

    In Jane Austen’s day, marriage between 15-16 year olds and 25 or older men was not considered unusual or disagreeable.

    But it didn’t happen all the same. Age at first marriage has been pretty high in England for centuries. Now the Balkans on the other hand…

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  40. on August 25, 2008 at 6:03 am somebody from half sigma's blog

    We are just going to have to live with the effects of modern mating: girls chasing forever after the hot guy with largest amounts of testosterone into adulthood, becoming single mothers, with a large amount of unattached guys expressing various forms of misogyny (unsurprisingly).

    as usual, whiskey speaks the truth. if some of the females here are upset by some of the abusive language some guys hurl so freely, it could be that some of those guys are beta males who feel no compunction about insulting others, especially women.

    also, this blog is nothing compared to how half sigma can get when discussing a subject like race, for example. if women want guys in general society or the internet to change, they should look in the mirror. otherwise, for better or worse, don’t be surprised at the level of vitriol, like when somebody makes fun of someone else having been raped. chivalry requires gratitude, bitch!

    If men think they have it good in America they have NO IDEA what they are talking about. Men are oppressed in America.

    dude, yoyou speak the truth and you’re a fellow monger. clubhombre.com, homeboy!

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  41. Whiskey,

    I know quite a few guys in their 20’s who married women in their late 30’s-40’s here in Israel, where guys are mostly fairly primitive. I think it’s a matter of whether or not one lives in a situation in which they can afford to be picky. People here are pretty ethnically divided, so it’s difficult to find a partner one really clicks with, who has all the features one would prefer, if they had a wider choice.

    You know, I didn’t think that maybe the sunbathing was about mood enhancement. It makes sense. One can do that in protective clothing though.

    On sexual freedom…the price doesn’t have to be sexual stupidity.

    I had the pleasure recently of watching my daughter summarily dismiss one of her little puppy love admirers because he was overly rude to other people in a forum they both frequent.
    ==================

    Patrick, thank you…and I hope it stays that way for a long time.

    I never thought of becoming a spy, but I have considered being a mystery shopper. Problem is that I hate shopping. If I could buy groceries from the internet and not get ripped off, I would place a monthly order and forget about it the rest of the time.

    …and don’t worry about romeo. He’s obviously miserable.
    ==================

    Agnostic, call it what you will, but exploitation by any other name still stinks.
    ==================

    Romeo, what an astute observation. I am overweight. You’re welcome to your preferences. After all, I’m severely repulsed by the stupid.
    ==================

    Freak Show, if a guy is looking for a breeding machine/prostitute (a.k.a. wife under the classic definition) then yes, his best bet is someone under 30. However, not everyone is looking for that.

    Some guys prefer a woman who’s more experienced, and not looking for someone to pay their bills.

    Some of the top draws of older women are that we’re usually financially independent, and don’t need or want someone to “take care of us” financially. In fact, nowadays, a woman with assets or whose family has some, estranged or not, would do well to avoid marriage. I don’t want someone who’s not even related to me to be automatically entitled to half of my inheritance and wages, even if I die. A smart guy wouldn’t either. That’s a level of trust someone should have to earn with time.

    What we’re usually looking for in a partner is companionship and sex. That’s it. We might consider breeding with the right guy, but by a certain age, that’s a risk we’d only take for love, or because we want to have (more) children, and can afford to do that alone. If it’s just the latter, we can find a way to do that without involving a romantic partner…though I personally wouldn’t take that route because of my own theories about overpopulation and breeding without involved fathers being a gift that cultures that encourage irresponsibility do not deserve.

    It’s a different world today.
    ==================

    Doug, I agree that it’s natural for men to be sexually attracted to new women. However, the question is whether or not it’s wise to pursue someone that young above a certain age, without at least considering her development.

    I caught the attention of a much younger man last year, and learned alot from it. Ultimately though, in order for him to develop, I had to let him go do that.

    I believe that any older man who gets involved with a much younger woman in her teens, should be prepared for the fact that she is still growing up. Though she may have the potential to be a great woman, and you may be a wise man for recognizing it, you must not be so selfish as to stifle her and prevent her from realizing her potential.

    In other words, be helpful or get out of the way. Enjoy her beauty like that of a rose…a wonder of nature to behold, but if you hold it too tightly, it will bruise, wither, and die…and along the way, it will make you bleed.

    About the pelt, it might not be trendy to say this, but in all honesty, most women I know, self included, would much rather guys pet the kitty instead of licking it. We shave as a matter of hygiene in the middle east and other hot climates. Others shave because somehow a bald vulva is viewed as more feminine. So it’s mostly fashion.

    Mechanics gets involved with those of us who really REALLY like long sessions of intercourse. Then shaving is to reduce the bad kind of friction.

    I’ve had two husbands, and they know their way around the territory very well, but even the best of guys I’ve been with, wasn’t as good as the worst woman in that. IMO, guys do better with their hands.
    ==================

    Peter, though I do see your point (having changed my fair share of diapers in my lifetime), I don’t believe that the shaven look is necessarily pedophilic. A woman’s vulva is going to look very different from a girl’s, even without a hint of hair.

    What may make it feel that way though, is that the images in which one would normally see a shaven vulva on a woman they weren’t shagging, are exploitive. That’s most of mainstream porn.

    Watching silicone injected women badly acting sex in positions made for optimal camera exposure, and not pleasure or comfort, is not my idea of fun either…and since so much of porn is connected to prostitution, which is connected to child prostitution, I can see why someone unable to ignore those connections would be disgusted by reminders.

    I’m not telling you that you should like shaven pussy. Just…don’t judge it so harshly. It isn’t always done for the look, and even so, it isn’t always a matter of looking more juvenile, but just more feminine.

    I personally prefer facial hair on a man. Shaving it is like chopping the mane off of a lion or a horse…but as much as I like it, I try not to judge men who do shave too harshly.

    Like


  42. …and somebody, blaming others for one’s own behavior is a sign of an external locus of control. If you wish to have any hope whatsoever, in succeeding at anything, especially dating and avoiding the deceivers and harpies, you must take personal responsibility for your own behavior.

    Chivalry has never required gratitude, and was never the exclusive domain of men.

    What chivalry requires is honor and courage…to do what is right, or at least what needs to be done, whether one is rewarded or thanked for it or not.

    It is up to the individual whether it is worth it to be particularly chivalrous, or to be natural without any particular creed or code…but even in nature, there is one law of the jungle that was and always will be the same. That is:

    Don’t shit where you eat.

    If you do, and you get a bad taste in your mouth, then it is your own fault.

    Like


  43. on August 25, 2008 at 6:30 am somebody from half sigma's blog

    …and somebody, blaming others for one’s own behavior is a sign of an external locus of control.

    i live in america. blaming others for personal failures or genetic deficiencies is routinely done in this country by certain groups to gain benefits.

    What chivalry requires is honor and courage…to do what is right, or at least what needs to be done, whether one is rewarded or thanked for it or not.

    if positive behavior is not rewarded, it eventually will be extinguished. take any behavior 101 course at a local college in israel if you don’t believe me. btw, i never said taunting someone who had been raped was appropriate, just that we shouldn’t be surprised that it happens.

    Like


  44. PatrickH, thank you for your comments. That was my first post so, no, I didn’t post whatever else it is you thought I posted. You seem like a very emotional guy, and that can be great, I can respect that. Unfortunately, you seen to have gotten a bit heated and lost sight of the fact that my comment, while perhaps a bit unduly harsh, was perfectly true. I never dismissed the veracity of your comments; in fact, I acknowledged your comment as accurate. Good luck.

    Nicole, I thank you for your comments as well. Your are entitled to your dispreference of stupidity as I am entitled to a dispreference of obesity. Do note that the stupidity and obesity are strongly correlated.

    Like


  45. Somebody, other people’s failure does not excuse one’s own. Again you illustrate a lack of understanding of personal responsibility by pointing the finger at others when the topic of conversation is you.

    I’m well aware that there exist bad people in the world. This doesn’t mean that I would be excused any bad behavior…because other people do it.

    It’s a lame excuse.

    …and since I consider taunting someone for being raped below the bar, I will always find it surprising, or at least ironic, when someone who claims to want others to treat them with respect, treats another with such outrageous disrespect.

    Romeo, you do realize that the IP addresses of all comments are recorded, do you not?

    Speech and writing patterns are like fingerprints for me. You really don’t want to start this here just because you were too chicken to do it on my blog.

    …and you really don’t want me to share my logs with Roissy, and warn him of your antics elsewhere.

    I doubt that he is as nice as another webmaster we know.

    Like


  46. on August 25, 2008 at 8:26 am somebody from half sigma's blog

    Somebody, other people’s failure does not excuse one’s own. Again you illustrate a lack of understanding of personal responsibility by pointing the finger at others when the topic of conversation is you.

    you never addressed any of my points but if you are so interested in learning different points of view, please read the works of roger devlin regarding how women and general society have conspired to work against beta males:
    http://public.box.net/mensarefugee26388

    see the works from march 17 and jan 24 ’08. right click and click ‘preview.’ they are long works but i’m sure you’ll have no trouble reading them if you so choose.

    roissy, i believe you said that the more truthful the attack, the more ‘they’ resort to ad hominems and that one could magnify by ten this result if one deigns to offend women. how true. lol!

    Like


  47. Somebody, I didn’t address most of your points specifically because to me, the specifics are irrelevant. I’m a blunt sort of person who likes to get to the root of an issue, rather than going in 50 petty directions.

    Like


  48. Nicole, you can feel free to do whatever you want with your IP logs because I’ve never once been to your website.

    Like


  49. The shaved look is unnatural and disturbing. The landing strip is ridiculous because it is out of harmony with the local topography. A nicely-maintained upside-down triangle is best.

    Like


  50. And now for an anecdote not about me: my best friend is 18 and very good-looking, guys hit on her very often. I had her and a mutual friend over for brunch one Sunday, and my “landlord” walked through the dining room on the way to his room. (Really his mother owns the place; he’s a grad student too.)

    Apparently he’s pretty good-looking, as my best friend told me pretty excitedly, and the other agreed. She asked how old he was, and I said probably 27 (turns out he was 26 at the time). Rather than cringe at a nearly 10-year age difference, she hoped:

    “Well… that means I still might have a chance…”

    *She* was worried that *he* would be uncool with the age difference. That’s how it works when a guy is attractive, in the broad sense.

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  51. “Imagine a 35 year old guy telling a 22 year old girl she’s too old for him. It quickly reverses the frame in your favor.”

    If a 35 year old dude told me I was too old, I’d giggle, loudly, and call him gramps.

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  52. Romeo, if you’ve never been to my website, then the “severely overweight” thing was an attempt to get me attracted to you by capping on what you think is a sensitive issue.

    It didn’t work. I’m 38, and settled back into MILFness at 23. “The game” was over for me years ago, and I’m very happy about that.

    I’m not competing for the same men that the 17-25 year old girls are…and I don’t think I really was even back when I was that age.

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  53. Romeo, I do apologize for my rant at you. Rereading your original comment, it is clear you are not the midget-soul that has been dogging me for the last little while. You can write a coherent sentence and seem able to think.

    I withdraw all the ranty stuff, but will continue to insist that my comment to Nicole was a simple point about her appearance and how it affects her apparent age. My central point was that her indeterminate appearance may explain why many men ask her how old she is. I made no attempt to tell her she looks good or great or beautiful or anything of the sort.

    Your comment was insulting to her, needlessly IMO, but hardly out of sorts for this place. In any case, Nicole can handle herself. You misdescribed my comment, I believe, but your interpretation was by no means impossible to sustain.

    So I apologize to you for comparing you to the nano-entity nipping at the hairs that line my perineal dermis; you are clearly not that thing. You appear, lord forbid, to be human and literate and capable of thought.

    Sadly, my outburst was written in a moment of fatigue, not emotion. I felt very little while I was writing it, and it showed–it was a rather sad wan pallid effort, really. I ended my rant by saying it doesn’t matter if you’re the same person as the-nothing-that-thinks-it’s-real. It does matter. You’re clearly cut from a better grade of cloth.

    I see no reason to continue hostilities with you, since there seems no reason for them. Thank you for your measured response, which has earned my respect. I can only respond in the same spirit. So, I shall invoke water under bridges, bygones being bygones, that was then this is now, and so on.

    Peace to you Romeo,
    Patrick

    Like


  54. DA —

    The latest reports out of the Census Bureau highlight:

    36% of births were to mothers not married to their baby’s father, with an additional 5% to a “partner” they were not married to.

    It is not middle class women in their thirties who have relationships with drug dealers and the like, it’s predictably teen age girls who select on testosterone/status only. That’s why most societies either have social controls on young women’s (and men’s) sexuality, through either abstinence (which equates to reduced sex not no sex) and the guidance of older people, particularly older women who’s social approval is required for younger women to advance.

    Young and not so young men denied the ability to form families and relationships are unlikely to be happy for long with pale substitutes of video games and porn. Those sort of men formed the suicide shock troops of AQ, and have always been (the Freikorps in Weimar) a profoundly disturbing force in society. One in which sooner or later, end up making an awful bloody mess.

    Agnostic — actually marriage age was fairly low in England until the Victorian reformers improved social capital by raising it, both legally and by cultural efforts. For example, Shelley married Mary Wolstonecraft when she was 16, she was pregnant by 17. I don’t think women turn into “dried out husks” by 25, rather the attachment effects of sex releasing hormones is degraded by repeated partners, making it difficult for women to form attachments. Leading to among other things, single motherhood, which is a social disaster.

    Nicole — I don’t think you’ll find many men who will marry older women. Most men want families. You might find a few exceptions, you can find lots of gay men in San Francisco, but that does not make gay men representative of American men.

    I will go further and say for older women to be valued by men, as mothers, sisters, colleagues, friends, mentors, and so on, this requires men to be invested in society, i.e. have their own family and nothing else will substitute. Period. When Wyoming joined the Union, the delegation was instructed to refuse admission if women would lose the right to vote (this was in 1898). Women gained that right in 1869, because Wyoming men wanted wives and sought to attract them by enhanced rights. Wyoming men sought to protect their wives and daughters rights … because they were their wives and daughters. Social stability requires “enough” women to marry men at the proper age gap, around 6 years younger than the man, in their twenties (early or late, there’s considerable play) and stay mostly married to these men. With that sort of investment, men can be relied upon to make almost any sacrifice for their wives, daughters, sisters, mothers, and so on. Without it, you get the average Angry Gangsta Rap Video.

    Women chose the Angry Gangsta Rap Video (seen most clearly among Black women, google “Lauren London Thugs” but existing strongly in the White population as well) and now must live with the consequences. Chivalry will only exist if the behavior is rewarded. Don’t want to argue with religious beliefs, but that is behavioral science 101. Culture as always, matters. If Women want sexual freedom in absolute, they have to pay for it. With the Rap Video world.

    Like


  55. on August 25, 2008 at 9:21 pm Usually Lurking

    When Wyoming joined the Union, the delegation was instructed to refuse admission if women would lose the right to vote (this was in 1898). Women gained that right in 1869, because Wyoming men wanted wives and sought to attract them by enhanced rights. Wyoming men sought to protect their wives and daughters rights … because they were their wives and daughters.

    This is a part of what I call “Lost History”. Important historical facts and insights that never get taught, either in the classroom or on the History Channel.

    Like


  56. I would suggest that readers peruse the French work _L’enfer des tournantes_ or anything by Yasmina Khadra to see what the breakdown of traditional family structure has meant for outer-city Arab and Berber youths in modern France or modern Algeria. Women who are not “owned” as wives or sisters are fair game for literal gang-bangers, while the founder of “Ni Putes ni soumises” (“Neither whores nor submissives”) kids herself that there is safety for femmes libérées outside of the traditional familial/clan networks of patronage and protection which her people were expert at developing EVEN WiTHIN the zero-growth context of subsistence herding in an Islamic desert.

    It’s strange that there was a bit more of a social contract when people had nothing, because then the word of the elders was respected and the French were willing to enforce the law.

    Like


  57. I like to use this neg as a response to a test:
    You would make a great girlfriend…for someone i don’t like.

    Like


  58. Whiskey wrote:
    “Nicole — I don’t think you’ll find many men who will marry older women. Most men want families. You might find a few exceptions, you can find lots of gay men in San Francisco, but that does not make gay men representative of American men.”

    Whiskey, the statistics just don’t bear you out. Many men are willing to marry older women, and the proportion is growing with the backlash against the overly hostile and impractical bent of feminism.

    You should also remember that many women over 35 who are single, are not looking for marriage. Again, we’re usually in it for the companionship and sex.

    A great many of us are also in or exploring “alternative” family styles and relationships.

    It’s not normal, but it’s not unheard of, for a man to prefer commitment to older women specifically, or because older women are more likely to have the traits they like in a partner.

    Some guys are in it for the looks, and others are in it for the experience. I was pretty good at 20, but I wouldn’t say I was nearly as skilled with certain things then, as I am now.

    If you need a doctor, you generally don’t find them between 18-23. You don’t find many women skilled in things that, if done unsafely, could put you in need of a doctor, between 18-23 either.

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  59. it’s predictably teen age girls who select on testosterone/status only

    And where are the legions of white pregnant teenagers? I certainly don’t see them around here. I suspect you’re conflating the habits of the poor underclass of all races with that of their middle class counterparts.

    Besides, if you want to solve the teen pregnancy problem, just simply deny welfare benefits and child support to them, and impose minimum work requirements. In turn, offer cheap and subsidized abortion and birth control.

    BTW, are your statistics adjusted for the “Hispanic” category? When statistics in the US lump Hispanics with Whites, it ends up inflating white counts.

    Young and not so young men denied the ability to form families and relationships are unlikely to be happy for long with pale substitutes of video games and porn.

    I’d argue that the consumerist substitutes provide excellent if not superior substitutes to family and relationship formation. I mean, yeah, I could support a wife and two or three children who may or may not love me, or I can buy a beautiful sports car and enjoy my life. I don’t think most men in our modern world are stupid enough to go “revolt” against a system that provides them a rather luxurious lifestyle that your examples are lacking.

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  60. @58 Nicole
    “Whiskey, the statistics just don’t bear you out.”

    You have not provided said statistics. If you are going to make that claim (that statistics don’t bear him out), provide a reference. I frankly don’t believe in any tangible increase in men who seek long term companionship with older women.

    As for the skills of older women versus the looks of younger women, Roissy has addressed that in previous blog posts.

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  61. @59
    59 David Alexander
    it’s predictably teen age girls who select on testosterone/status only
    And where are the legions of white pregnant teenagers? I certainly don’t see them around here.

    You live in NYC, right? Go to suburban and especially rural areas, especially in the South. Is it less amongst whites? Yes; but it’s common enough. I think the reality is pretty simple: teen pregnancy correlates to to socio-economic status. Where white people are poor, white people get pregnant young.

    Quick Google search found the following:
    http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/state_pregnancy_trends.pdf
    It separates Hispanics and whites.

    Like


  62. Clio, for some blk women in Texas like to tan, both light and medium complected.

    Nicole said:I think another culprit is chemical. Overuse of hair dyes, makeup made of goodness knows what, and so-called beauty treatments that don’t actually do anything, or might make things worse

    I agree. Men don’t use half the crap we use and their skin looks at good if not better than ours.

    @Whiskey, seasonal affective disorder is not a joke.

    romeo said:PatrickH, who cares how ageless she looks, that’s annoying beta supplication
    You don’t know that you catch more bees with honey. I’m sure PatrickH has talked the panties off of pleanty of women using his charm. All women are not attracted to tough guys.

    Like


  63. You live in NYC, right?

    I spent twenty years in NYC proper, but now I reside in a “real” suburb.

    especially rural areas, especially in the South…Where white people are poor, white people get pregnant young.

    As yes, the location of the scourge of the white races, the Scots and Scots-Irish.

    I think the reality is pretty simple: teen pregnancy correlates to to socio-economic status.

    And as some may say, it also correlates to low IQ. Of course, as I’ve said a million times, easily accessible cheap and subsidized abortion are the cure to the problem.

    Over the counter RU 486 for all!

    Like


  64. dougjnn- So get a girl before some other guy has broken her heart.

    I understand you don’t want to deal with excess baggage but a 30 year old man often has his load too. I also know what it feels like to be 16 and have strange much older men catcalling, winking and almost crashing their cars to get a better look at you. It was very freighting to say the least. .

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  65. PatrickH’s tongue is razor sharp and dipped in acid.

    Besides shaving, the women have learned nothing. Reports of awful blowjobs are commonplace, and anal sex is still pointless with normal women. Clothes are still geared towards being fashionable and not overtly slutty, flats are still popular, makeup use isn’t heavy enough, and I’m still waiting for my fake acrylic nailed queen to appear.

    [email protected] DA. Did he say reports LOL reports.

    Jacques Rogge* is an example of a very hot much older man (with suit on). He is so manly but equally elegant.

    *IOC head.

    Like


  66. LOL Wiskey I will put you in the fullnelson if you mention Lauren London’s name again.

    Usually Lurking said:This is a part of what I call “Lost History”. Important historical facts and insights that never get taught, either in the classroom or on the History Channel

    I agree.

    I’ve Come to the realization that
    most men have a much stronger craving for women than women have for men.

    I also agree that most men feel a stronger attraction to younger women. Not jailbait young, but 40 yearold man and his 25 year old wife young. I am also aware that there are a few who like them older or who are open to an older woman who is well perserved.

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  67. The shaved look is unnatural and disturbing. The landing strip is ridiculous because it is out of harmony with the local topography. A nicely-maintained upside-down triangle is best.

    A variant I sometimes see on Voyeurweb* is what may be called the Air Force Chevron. The base of the triangle, which of course is on top given the upside-down orientation, is not a straight line but points slightly downward in the middle in a very shallow “V” shape. It appears to be a natural hair growth pattern rather than an artificial design like the ridiculous Landing Strip.

    * = a a site I maybe have sort of accidentally looked at once or twice

    Like


  68. I’m sure PatrickH has talked the panties off of plenty of women using his charm. All women are not attracted to tough guys.

    And all tough guys aren’t attracted to women! I’ll never forget that massive hirsute Bear who kept blowing kisses at me while he drove past me up and down the street over and over again. He was driving a convertible, top down, and he was STANDING BEHIND THE STEERING WHEEL STEERING WITH HIS BIG HAIRY BEAR KNEES. While blowing kisses at me. An odd experience, let me tell you.

    And Chic, my darling, if you keep saying nice things about me I am going to fall in love with you. Now stop that. My heart belongs to a wicked woman from California who calls herself Sister Wolf. And to a wild woman from the wild West named Moira Breen. And another woman too. And another one as well, actually.

    So, Chic…if I fall in love with you, I’ll explode. Or implode. Or replode. All I now is there’ll be ‘ploding. So stop it. Now. I can only sustain burning romantic passion for four women at once. Five will be the death of me.

    Near ‘plodingly,
    Patrick

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  69. Whiskey, Agnostic’s right regarding marriage age: the legal age for marriage was low in England, but the actual average age of marriage in England and indeed north western Europe in general – that is, the age at which peasants and low-ranking artisans married – was always historically higher than anywhere else in the world. In the Middle Ages, historical demographers worked out that the average age of marriage for women was about 25; for men, it was about 27; I could be remembering the exact numbers wrong (and perhaps new research has changed them), but it was something along those lines, and high. This is sometimes referred to as the “western European exception”.

    No one knows why it was like this. The fact that western Europeans preferred that married couples should live in their own households independent of their parents has been suggested as a possible explanation, but of course it only raises the question of “why” again.

    Remember, Mary Shelley had to run away from her family in order to get married at age 16 – and her family was in any case an exceptionally bohemian one, and her mother had died young.

    Clio

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  70. Whiskey, Agnostic’s right regarding marriage age: the legal age for marriage was low in England, but the actual average age of marriage in England and indeed north western Europe in general – that is, the age at which peasants and low-ranking artisans married – was always historically higher than anywhere else in the world. In the Middle Ages, historical demographers worked out that the average age of marriage for women was about 25; for men, it was about 27; I could be remembering the exact numbers wrong (and perhaps new research has changed them), but it was something along those lines, and high. I believe this is sometimes referred to as the “western European exception”. Early marriage was the ideal, but it was an ideal few people could afford.

    No one knows why western Europe was like this. The fact that people of the region preferred that married couples should live in households independent of their parents (requiring that they save enough money for a house of their own) has been suggested as a possible explanation, but of course it only raises the question of “why” again.

    Remember, Mary Shelley had to run away from her family in order to get married at age 16 – and her family was in any case an exceptionally bohemian one, and her mother had died young.

    Clio

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  71. on August 26, 2008 at 8:10 am SovereignAmericanMale

    34 Peter

    Speak for yourself. The Bald Eagle look is disgusting and pedophilic.

    I cant wait for you to bang a smoking hot 7, and pick up some crabs from her thatchy GNP.

    But pride being the muthafu$%er that it is, you wouldn’t admit I am right about it.

    We have gone round and round, your schtick is clearly played out and rather tired.

    Everyone knows your nick needs to be GNPeter.

    Like


  72. @Animus

    http://www.aarp.org/family/love/articles/cougars_and_their.html
    “A whopping 34 percent of women over 40 are dating younger men, according to a 2003 survey. The same poll, which surveyed 3,500 single people (both women and men) aged 40 to 69 year old found that 56 percent are currently separated or divorced from a spouse, 31 percent have never been married, and seven in 10 (74 percent) of formerly married singles in their 50s have been single for five years or more.”

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1077/is_n5_v48/ai_13437103/pg_1
    “The unions of older women and younger men are becoming more commonplace. According to the 1980 U.S. Census, one out of every 10 marriages in the country involved older women and younger men. Bureau officials say the new Census figures are expected to show an increase in these marriages.”

    …and that’s just the marriages. There are many, many more cohabitings and shaggings going on.

    Your failure to see the benefit in something doesn’t preclude others enjoying the rewards.

    In my personal observations, I’ve noticed that a man’s choices in partners is directly related to his sense of manhood, self worth, and identity. A man who loves himself, doesn’t want to spend too much time or energy on a woman who doesn’t and can’t relate to or truly love him.

    Weak men like even weaker women. For a strong man, just about every woman is weaker than him at least physically…so a woman being bigger, older, or more intelligent than the traditional bar, isn’t going to phase him.

    I mean…imagine the guy who would look at *me* as a fragile flower, and there you have a description of most of my boyfriends and both of my husbands.

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  73. [email protected] DA. Did he say reports LOL reports.

    Quick, someone give that man an “awful” blowjob! His “grapes” are turning sour!

    Like


  74. @Jaakkeli, believe it or not, there is such a thing as an awful blowjob. Look up bad blowjob in Youtube…I think it’s on CollegeHumor.

    Guys, do a girl a favor. You’d want a woman to tell you if you were doing it wrong, so don’t be shy to tell us too. I realize that when someone has one of your most sensitive and precious parts in their grasp, that you tend to want to capitulate, but you must be firm in your resolve too.

    We don’t have penises, and our stuff works very differently. So though sometimes a girl thinks she knows what she’s doing, but she doesn’t. So do a kindness and give some instruction.

    My sincerest thanks to the Gay Mr. Miyagi of oral, who gave me a piece of bubblegum and taught me to wax off. 😉

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  75. @72 Nicole

    Weak! Where’s the delta? I have a friend, he’s 25, his girlfriend is 29. Is she older? Yes. Does that mean I consider him to be dating an ‘older woman’? No. If a 44 year old woman dates a 38 year old man, this would count towards that survey, but it doesn’t address what whiskey is talking about: men in their 20s and early 30s dating women 10 or more years older than them. And the stipulation was ‘dating’. Having regular sex is a loose definition of dating.

    But most interesting?
    Weak men like even weaker women. For a strong man, just about every woman is weaker than him at least physically…so a woman being bigger, older, or more intelligent than the traditional bar, isn’t going to phase him.

    Bigger (do you mean physically?) and older does *not* equal stronger. Sometimes women mellow out and have more control with age, but lots of them become more insular and neurotic. Intelligence also does not equal strength. I’ve met plenty of very smart people, both men and women, who were emotionally weak. Strengths like loyalty, optimism, energy and nurturing are highly desired by men, and are more abundant in younger women. As is beauty. If you think somehow being interested in ‘standard youthful beauty’ is somehow a ‘weak’ trait, then you’re just off your rocker.

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  76. PatrickH saidAnd all tough guys aren’t attracted to women

    There are many videos of bears and their cubs on xtub.E.

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  77. Animus
    I think beauty and energy are abundant in younger women but not loyalty,optimism or nurturing.

    How many teenage or early 20’s mothers are truly nuturing.

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  78. Chic:

    First off, optimism. The older you get, the more cynical you become. People who try to ‘change the world’ are young. It’s not coincidence that the presidential candidate with the platform of ‘Change’ is the young guy. Do you remember the first time you fell in love? How everything seemed perfect, seemed incorruptible? I rest my case.

    Loyalty: This is simple too. A 45 year old woman has, on average, had more men in her life. This gets to what whiskey has talked about. Women with fewer partners come with less baggage (is he like the last guy?) and have not become desensitized. Loyalty is *in general* a rare trait. But someone who has changed horses a few times already? You have to wonder why.

    Nurturing is mostly a personality trait, but it is best fulfilled when accompanied by energy and optimism. There are nurturing older women, but there some very not nurturing ones as well. And let’s be honest: ‘strong, independent woman’ doesn’t conjure up nurturing as an associated trait. Feel free to disagree, but this is the perception and perception is reality in the dating market.

    I don’t doubt Nicole’s relative happiness or experience, but I think she is falsely trying to apply it to a more general world. And to wit, Roissy doesn’t live in or write about the general world.

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  79. @Animus, maybe it’s you who are trying to apply your preferences to the world.

    Really, you don’t need to justify your preferences. Everybody has them.

    Thing is, as I’ve said many many times before here and elsewhere: you can’t turn a whore into a wife or vise versa. You can pressure one to behave like the other for a time, if it’s expedient, but deep down, who they are will come out.

    Women who were faithfully married when they were younger, and find themselves single when they’re older are just as nurturing and loyal as they were…just more experienced and less likely to enter into a bad deal with someone who’s going to leave them like their ex did. There’s nothing disloyal about not wanting to get burned. They’re just more selective about who they give their loyalty to.

    That older women have “more baggage” is just an excuse that men (and even some Lesbians I know) make to avoid being under scrutiny. They want someone stupid enough to take their pathetic offers for half-relationships based on false hopes that will eventually be dashed. Lesbians do this all the time when they’re the sort who are planning on scurrying right back into the closet as soon as they find some sucker to marry.

    When you have honor and loyalty yourself, you don’t mind a reasonable amount of scrutiny…in fact, you prefer that your partner have the smarts not to fall for every cad with a romantic line.

    It’s all about what you want in a partner, and that will usually relate to what your intentions are. If what you want is a nice looking bracelet, a breeder, and a housekeeper in exchange for your paycheck, then aim under 25…but not all guys want that. In fact, alot of guys don’t want that.

    Some guys want a partner, and her age doesn’t matter as much as what she has to offer aside of her womb.

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  80. 72 Nicole:

    Weak men like even weaker women

    **WARNING** **WARNING**

    **BULLSHIT ALERT**

    This notion is simply the posturing of the amazonian behemoth brigade in their attempt to shame men who prefer submissive feminine women as God and Nature intended.

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  81. on December 3, 2009 at 6:51 pm MakeMeAnAtheist

    I have looked from the top to the bottom of this discussion. I have been trying to look for a shred of proof of the good will of humankind. For some sign that human beings still like each other at all.

    Maybe I’ve missed it.

    I’m 27 and I had some brief good luck with women (note: in relationships, not clubs), when I was younger. My teeth are in poor shape now and I’ve been knocked out of the war for genetic survival, barring an eventual denti$t and a lot of pain. Simply stated, my appearance is a big hurdle, though it’s my only one.

    It’s been this way for half a decade of my relatively young life, and condition and circumstances double as excuses so I won’t give any, beyond saying that they do exist. I’ve dealt with all my navel-gazing; now it’s just fact.

    Ask any man imprisoned for half a decade and you’ll find that being knocked out of contact with women for so long tends to leave them strongly inclined to rectify that paucity. While I’ve not been a prisoner, you can probably make a comparison to the inclination that this length of time creates, moreso in the young whose genes are seeking recombination, even if the conscious mind is not in line with it.

    And yet even with this intensity pushing the cart so to speak, I cannot see where trading the good will of humanity, and playing each our own part in the creation and sustenance of that good will, for a good bang (or many) should be a good trade. And from the behavior of the greater portion of males who’ve spoken above, as well as from a few of the feminine opinions, I’d have to reason that the good will of our species is in question. Am I reading this wrongly? At the end of the day, are you a crowd of people who still bear good will toward one another? And although I am a male, I’m posing this question to all the males and all the females, because friends, you both have spoken injuries to each other here, and you have left me with a great fear: that good will is dying, battle and pleasure are becoming one thing, and that ultimately, I don’t belong on this planet.

    Maybe when we’re all done here, someone could cram a crayon far enough into my nose that my brain no longer cognates the dark feelings written into the intent of all of these collective words.

    Or maybe I’ve read this wrong, and I can relax and hope humanity will indeed stay human. Either way – here is my statement — you are all of the tribe of humans, and that makes you my tribesmen, and I wish that good things come to you all.

    (PS – My opinions do not come from religion. Though you might say that they go away from it.)

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  82. […] best to turn it around on her so that it is you who is qualifying her. You can see examples of qualification lines in action in this post, which can also be delivered as negs. A common thread to reframing the age gap is to insinuate that […]

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  83. […] Some Great Age Negs – How to handle girls that are younger or older […]

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