Kiss Close In Front Of Her Friends

It’s not a good idea to have extended makeouts with girls in dark, grimy, loud bars and clubs the first night you meet them unless you calculate that you have a good chance to take them home that night. Too much making out, followed by an anti-climactic number close, then a long walk home without you by her side will actually increase the odds that the girl will flake when you call her two days later.

This doesn’t mean you shouldn’t kiss a fresh prospect at all. Kissing a girl on the same night you approach her creates a strong bond that words alone can’t achieve. You just have to do it sparingly, and always be the one to break off the kissing. Try to minimize tongue action, even if she initiates tongue probing. Keep your kisses gentle and short; don’t engulf her mouth like a horny leech. Stop after a few seconds to pull back, smile at her, then look down at your shoes and back up at her face. Glance around the room distractedly.

A very simple way to know if a girl is ready for you to kiss her is to lean into her ear as if you were going to tell her a secret, and if she doesn’t move her head backward and she lets your cheek rest flush against her cheek, you can pull back and safely go for it.

I was kissing a very tall cute girl at the bar of a trendy club in Adams Morgan, about 30 minutes after I had opened her. At one point, she said “Wow, we’re totally exposed here. Everyone can see us kissing.” But I knew, based on the fact that her eyes didn’t scan the room for people who might be watching us and instead stayed focused on me, that she didn’t really care if people saw us kissing. I didn’t assuage her fake concern: “I wish more people were watching us, I’ve always dreamed of being an exhibitionist.”

To build the tension, I made an excuse that I was going to see my friends and left her behind for a while. When I returned, her three girlfriends (it was a girls’ night out) were dancing and laughing with her. I walked up next to her, joined the fray, then pulled her in close and kissed her in front of her friends, before telling her I was leaving.

This was a risky gambit, because if she had flinched when I went for the kiss, it would’ve made me look very bad. But I knew I had built up sufficient comfort with her from over an hour of rapport. She returned my gentle kiss with equal passion. I figured that our kissing while her friends watched in plain view would greatly reduce the odds of a future flake. She would rationalize to herself: “If I let him kiss me in front of all my friends then I must really like this guy.” I’ve now made her friends my allies.

As I turned around to leave, she asked, “Hey you’re going to call me, right? Promise?”

It had worked.





Comments


  1. what’s with the Eurotrash shoes?

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  2. Monday evening, you leave a voicemail

    My thoughts were that you never leave voicemails. You disagree?

    Also, what’s your thoughts on the kiss test? (forgetabout’er her if she gives you the cheek?)

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  3. Go for the number first. About 20 minutes into the set. Then hang out and start escalating and go for the kiss, preferably after isolating.

    If you wait too long for the number, even after she’s been hanging off you for an hour or so and you’ve been basically mauling her everywhere it is permissable to touch her in public, it will seem anti-climactic. She’ll be like, “We can hang out here.”

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  4. This is great advice. As I get more into the game, flaking girls have become my biggest problem. It’s very frustrating, and I must say has led me to a certain cynicism towards all women. Even though I understand the female brain (in the moment it felt good to give her number out but later her emotions change and now it feels bad… guh) it still annoys me A LOT.

    Yes women make most decisions based on whatever her emotional mind rubbish tells her at the time, but that doesn’t make it right. Women don’t live in past or future, but in an abyss of emotion. What she did or said she would do later is irrelevant, because like the weather, her very essence will change by tomorrow. This is understandable, but should it be tolerated?

    In ‘The Game’ Courtney Love once asked Tyler Durden, ‘do you actually like women?’

    He said:

    “I wasn’t a misognyist when I started this… I got hurt a lot when I first started. I’d meet an amazing girl I really liked, and we’d talk all night. She’d say she loved me and was so lucky to have met me. But then I’d fail one shit test, and she’d walk away and wouldn’t even talk to me anymore. Everything we’d built up over the last eight hours would just go down the drain. So it hardened me.”

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  5. on August 4, 2008 at 5:00 pm Sara/not Sara

    Isn’t an intoxicated girl whom you just met and is a total stranger who would then eagerly engage in the exchange of oral fluids with you basically a slut? I think in her own mind she is a slut, unless you actually do call her afterwards which exonerates her somewhat. She sounds very needy. I guess it doesn’t matter, just sayin’.

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  6. sara bored me and repeated herself again:
    Isn’t an intoxicated girl whom you just met and is a total stranger who would then eagerly engage in the exchange of oral fluids with you basically a slut?

    she wasn’t intoxicated.

    She sounds very needy.

    being attracted is not being needy, dumbass.

    i think i’m going to put up a vote to my readership whether your comments should be limited to five per post, since you bring nothing of value to the table and simply make it harder for me with your shitstream of effluvium to find and read the worthier commenters.

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  7. on August 4, 2008 at 5:19 pm Usually Lurking

    If you need help with a “get out the vote” drive, please let me know.

    At least Dizzy brought something to the table: hate. It was fun.

    Actually, what we need is to get that one girl, “Anonymous”, who described herself as average looking, amongst other things, to comment more. She was smart.

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  8. Not only will she rationalize it to herself, but she will rationalize it to her friends as well, lest they think she’s a slut.

    As for sara, she responds to things that were never said, and has essentially admitted that she’s not interested in discussion. My libertarian streak typically eschews censorship, but she needs censoring the way Rosie O’Donnell scat porn does: badly.

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  9. on August 4, 2008 at 6:29 pm Usually Lurking

    There is no need to censor her, just have her put all of her annoying comments into one big comment. Then, anyone that wants to, can read them, or, easily ignore them.

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  10. Well that’s just weird. I usually know they’re ready for to kiss when I look gently into her eyes then take her hand and place it on my cock. My thought is that hand to cock game is very important. It let’s her know 1, that you mean business and 2, it’s not going to suck itself. But then again I’m a sucker for the slut type

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  11. Your outfit doesn’t seem to match the venue.

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  12. It looks like your shirt is too close to your skin tone, unless the photo colors are off. I avoid that. Makes me look wan. Even if noticing this makes me sound gay.

    Me: pale/white/light tone shirts when clean shaved. Dark shirts when working a stubble.

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  13. Maybe it was Kenny Chesney night at the local bowling alley…

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  14. on August 4, 2008 at 7:28 pm Sara/not Sara

    I thought about the possible responses to your vote and came up with these:

    1. The passive-aggressive approach: Don’t ever post here again.
    2. Advis you to seek counseling for your issues, because rather than boredom you get very touchy when I wittingly or unwittingly push one of your buttons. (If it were really boredom, why the vote? Methinks you protest too…..)
    3. Vote to have myself banned as it would save me a lot of time.
    4. Quote Socrates who said something to the effect of “Democracy is the worst of all possible forms of governance except all others.” and wait for the vote count.

    My personal favorite:

    5. Exit in recognition that this is your domain and as such you have the power to be the despot/tyrant/king ruler and block my IP address simply because you feel like it, and I should bow to your wishes, so that is what I shall do.

    Like I said; I don’t have time anyway, so it’s a blessing.

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  15. You know what to do when they don’t like what you’re wearing right? You take it off!

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  16. #4 Sebastian Flyte
    Yes women make most decisions based on whatever her emotional mind rubbish tells her at the time, but that doesn’t make it right.

    Assuming it’s true that all women are ruled by “emotional mind rubbish,” it’s hypocritical to complain about it not being “right” when it’s your manipulation — not a pejorative, by the way; simply a description of what you’re doing — of that same emotional volatility that allows you to attract them in the first place.

    One of Roissy’s main points on this blog is that we should deal with the world as it is, not as it ought to be. So if women are behaving this way towards you, just accept it as their nature and look for ways to move past it.

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  17. on August 4, 2008 at 8:17 pm Patrick Bateman

    @ #4 Sebastian

    I never read the game but I too have found that this lifestyle has made me more misogynistic. The more I get to know women, the more they repulse me and the more betas who eat their shit disgust me. I now find that I enjoy the sight of women crying or otherwise suffering, and I’ve almost lost my ability to empathize with women. I used to have a rule that the top 10% of women don’t get gamed on because they’re bearable to talk to, but I found that even most of these girls disgust me once I get to know them. I now treat all women like cheap whores per Roosh’s advice.

    @ #10 VK
    I prefer to either whip it out and ask in an excited tone “Have you ever seen one of these?!” or “What the fuck am I supposed to do with this thing?!”

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  18. on August 4, 2008 at 8:31 pm Usually Lurking

    …and block my IP address …

    Sara, he never said that. You are not a victim, just an annoyance.

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  19. on August 4, 2008 at 9:00 pm Comment_Sara

    Sara, could you please stop from being a drama queen?

    Unlike most boards, Roissy isn’t even making you apollogize to someone who insulted you or sit there and listen to people make fun of you while waiting for you to “cross the line” and then banning you. That’s pretty normal behaviour for Forums.

    Maybe it is best to let everyone post whatever they want, or maybe people who spam 40 comments a thread need to put more thought into less comments, but he statement is pretty tame.

    Really, if you want to reason with him, send a private message or something.

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  20. on August 4, 2008 at 9:01 pm Comment_Sara

    And if you want to have a chat session with SAM, got to a chat room.

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  21. on August 4, 2008 at 9:14 pm Problem Drinker

    “Yes women make most decisions based on whatever her emotional mind rubbish tells her at the time, but that doesn’t make it right. Women don’t live in past or future, but in an abyss of emotion. What she did or said she would do later is irrelevant, because like the weather, her very essence will change by tomorrow. This is understandable, but should it be tolerated?”

    Very well articulated. And no, it should not be tolerated. But since I’m basically an indifferent person, I can’t “tolerate” something that has no effect on me.

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  22. Roissy needs a better haircut for a head of his caliber, and a shirt one size larger to avoid looking like an overgrown child in front of that stuffed toy pond. The rest is very good.

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  23. To avoid misogyny — not because you’d be violating some human right, but just to not be cynical all the time — you have to date young girls. It depends on the girl, but sometime between 22 and 24 they start cunting up their behavior, and by 25 it’s pretty much a given. Part of this is giving it up more easily, but part of it is acting in a more cold and calculating manner. Game is designed to figure out the logic of this calculation, and exploit it to get them in bed or a relationship quickly.

    So there’s a trade-off: more pleasant, loving, estrogen-soaked young girls who are more difficult to bed, vs. more snarky, ungrateful, estrogen-hemorrhaging women over 25 who are easier to bed.

    And don’t take my word for it. Roissy just posted that one simplifying way to bang a hot chick is to make sure she’s over 25. Roosh says that girls under 25 are increasingly not worth the time (i.e., require more effort to achieve the same result of sex), VK notes how few “cool chicks” there are when you’re 5 years out of college, Mystery always explains the logic of false disqualifying by saying “imagine how many times a girl gets hit on between 18 and 23,” and so on.

    Each guy can resolve the trade-off however he wants, but he should be aware of the full range of options. Faster rate of notches added = pursuing women with more calculating tendencies = greater cynicism about female nature.

    Also, “misogyny” is misleading — you’re describing an icy *lack of* any feeling toward women, not a strong feeling of disgust. You can’t stick it in someone you’re thoroughly revolted by. And if you’re disgusted by X, you will run to the opposite of X. I’d say Gannon and I are the most “misogynistic” in the sense of being disgusted by women, but we’re therefore also the biggest girl-lovers — the way nature intended.

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  24. And how could I forget — young girls don’t just have higher levels of estrogen but of testosterone too, so they get butterflies in the stomach and cum more easily than a woman with shriveling ovaries.

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  25. “just accept it as their nature and look for ways to move past it.”

    Sure reggie, moving past it is what I’m trying to do. That’s why I praised Roissy’s advice. In fact, if you asked me before I read this I would have said that going for a kiss in front of her friends, even if it was reciprocated, might trigger a strong anti-slut defense later on (omg my friends might think i’m a slut!!) and increase the probability of flaking.

    But Roissy turned that on its head and showed that she will actually have an incentive to rationalize her behaviour to her friends by demonstrating that this is a guy she’s serious about, not some stranger she kissed because she’s easy. Therefore she’s less likely to flake on the phone. Most of the advice on avoiding flaking centers around moving between locations to distort time and building deep comfort quickly. But this tactic is more interesting.

    Anyway I, like women, cannot control certain emotions, and therefore still feel the emotion of annoyance and frustration when a girl gives me her number with no intention of answering a call. Certainly I have to work with the mould I’m given, and maybe I shouldn’t complain that the same emotional mind rubbish that causes her to flake might cause
    her to sleep with me… but I just wish the WHOLE process could be more logical. And the fault lies with women, not men.

    Agnostic

    Great points. The investment feels worth it too right? Actually, what Agnostic describes is how relationships are SUPPOSED to be, gradual and beautiful. Not an endless series of mind games and shit tests repeated till the End.

    There is an eternal recurrance, Groundhog day aspect to the game that I am already finding tiresome.

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  26. on August 4, 2008 at 10:35 pm James O. (fka "Not Peter")

    I didn’t mind the Sara rants per se but yeah, she was posting way too many times. And today she called herself “Sara/Not Sara.” Bleh. I am changing my handle from Not Peter (which began with my smiting of Peter’s GNP comments) to James O.

    But Yuko Ogura still rocks and she still shaves.

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  27. Sebastian — you’re still in college, right? I don’t mean to give one of those condescending “things will get better when you’re older” talks, but…. things will get better when you’re older.

    The teen years and early 20s are the girl’s time to shine. Guys are still too emotionally reactive during these years to move girls, unless they’re ridiculously good-looking. Don’t worry, it doesn’t take forever, but I’d say around 24 or 25 you’ll notice a difference in your brain chemistry — Neuroticism declines as you age.

    This means you’ll be less reactive to girls, won’t put them on a pedestal as much, less anxious in approaching, and less frustrated or deflated when they flake or reject you.

    Guys’ prime years for cleaning up are about 25 – 35, with the younger guys working better with teens or college students, and the less younger guys working better with 20-somethings, on average. With really strong game, you can go until 40, but you should be looking for something permanent at the same time.

    So for now, don’t have unrealistically high expectations. Practice game as much as time allows, but not to the neglect of having lots of adventures, building your career, and culturing yourself. By the time you’re 24, you’ll be all set to squeeze the juice out of the game fruit.

    I know it’s hard to wait, but any guy will tell you how rough it was during those years. It’s just a big shit sandwich, and we’ve all got to take a bite. Just trust that it will get better. And if I were you, I wouldn’t be distracted by girls your own age when you turn 24 — I’d go right for the 16 to 18 year-olds.

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  28. 7: Actually, what we need is to get that one girl, “Anonymous”, who described herself as average looking, amongst other things, to comment more. She was smart.

    Well, thanks very much, UL! I’m still around, I’ve just been quiet.

    However, I do find the comments (17 & 23) about the whole male/female interaction process hardening guys (and not in a good way) both interesting and dismaying. Although not exactly surprising.

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  29. Thank you, Master. I will reflect on this wisdom.

    Sarah – go back to your stamp collection.

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  30. Actually, I’m just becoming non-reactive now, at about 35. And I’ve never had fantastic amounts of success, just scrabbling towards normalcy. And learning not to care is hard, but when rejection becomes “boring” rather than “aggravating’ that’s a major step. You can also tip too far in the “non-needy” direction and become passive, but that’s another issue that needs to be handled by different means.

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  31. Agnostic — do you have any quantifiable and cite-able data for the assertion that estrogen levels drop drastically in the mid twenties or so? I’ve heard that female fertility starts to drop drastically after 26 or so, but I’ve never seen any studies cited to back up that claim.

    My view is that most men are “beta,” very few are “Alpha” which basically equates to social dominance and testosterone. If being socially dominant is required to have a relationship with women, male behavior in the White population will quickly ape that of Black urban core men. A rush to the bottom. Since it’s easiest and quickest to become “Alpha.”

    Unless a man has “natural game” i.e. has been blessed by early onset of puberty, existing high social status (his father was important and AROUND to bestow status), and was tall and muscular around 13-14, of course men will lack game. That describes about 90% of all men btw, or in that neighborhood. Those without natural game, upon learning it, will have negative attitudes.

    After all, men are finding out that the person they are simply is not good enough to find and attract a mate in the new reality to total female choice unconstrained by other factors. They must psychically mutilate themselves and act in ways totally opposite to that which got them career success (social dominance by Alphas is poison in most workplaces and would lead to a quick firing for most Alphas*). Their success with women depends on how well they give an acting performance, not the person they become. Always, they must hide their true personality and beliefs and behaviors (which is why perhaps so many Game players have a hard time keeping a relations, something that Strauss touched on).

    This is different than an actor or musician with their audience. They are there to give a performance, and get paid for doing it. It’s their job.

    “Disgust with betas?” All Alpha-ness is really is social dominance. It does not equate to skill or much of anything else. And there will ALWAYS be someone more socially dominant.

    *Sales, and a few other hierarchical professions are amenable to Alphas. But try leading a development team at Sun or Apple, or Microsoft, or an architectural team constructing a skyscraper. Big difference.

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  32. on August 5, 2008 at 1:14 am Steve Johnson

    “…quote Socrates who said something to the effect of “Democracy is the worst of all possible forms of governance except all others.””

    That could be about the wrongest thing I’ve ever read. The ancient Greeks, for very good reason, thought democracy was one of the worst forms of government. The person you’re trying to quote is Winston Churchill.

    Anyway, I vote for no ban on Sara. She’s nuts and posts too much but she’s not malicious and she’s occasionally entertaining.

    Agnostic-

    “And how could I forget — young girls don’t just have higher levels of estrogen but of testosterone too, so they get butterflies in the stomach and cum more easily than a woman with shriveling ovaries.”

    I don’t buy part of this; obviously the hormone levels part is true but there is no way younger girls orgasm more easily than older girls.

    Female orgasms are all about relative mate value. The more your sperm are worth to her, the greater lengths her body will go to retain them. Younger girls are at their peak of mate value; their bodies know this. Women who are getting older are dropping in mate value and will orgasm more easily (with the same guy) because of this. Older women may not orgasm as often simply because they get lower value mates.

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  33. social dominance by Alphas is poison in most workplaces and would lead to a quick firing for most Alphas

    It may be helpful if you define the sort of social dominance you’re talking about. That which is called “leadership skills” is very much an Alpha trait and it is an asset in virtually every career. A guy who naturally commands respect will do very well on an architectural or software development team.

    Men who are too timid or happy to go with the flow hit a career ceiling very early, even when they are quite smart.

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  34. Having sales experience, I think being successful in sales has nothing to do with being alpha. It is all about being a bullshit artist and getting fools to trust you. What intelligent person trusts a salesman? Never ask a barber if you need a haircut.

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  35. I’m for having Sara around. She’s sometimes insightful and her prose is not dull. She’s not really all that antagonistic either. Just bratty sometimes (which is good in very, very small doses. Once per week, I’d say.)

    And when she remembers that brevity is the soul of wit, she can be fun to read.

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  36. Whiskey, to go on in response to your otherwise excellent post, I’m still under the impression that you view someone with “social dominance” as an asshole loudmouth, which is what (I think) you say works on women and in macho career like sales.

    To take a look at the “social dominance by Alphas that is poison in most workplaces and would lead to a quick firing for most Alphas” some more, in light of the most macho, arguably, line of work: the military.

    The phenomenon you’ll notice when you are around Army men is that the higher their level of training and effectiveness, the more you see the “quiet leadership” sort of thing, and less of the testosterone-soaked chimp chest-thumping shit.

    The lowest level of pukes, the Basic Training recruits, will produce the loudest, most assholish and indimidating thug as an effective squad leader.

    But at the high end, among Special Ops types, you’ll see soft-spoken, relaxed men who project intelligence and command presence. Don’t get the wrong idea, they can, if necessary, outcurse and outscream any drill sergeant. But they are not the type that would have trouble keeping their white-collar office jobs either. They’d probably be on a fast track to executive ranks.

    And when matched against an “alpha” loudmouth who has trouble keeping his job, they’d always get the girl, perhaps with the exception of primitive barsluts.

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  37. @27 agnostic

    dude. 16 y/o or 17 y/o often can land you in jail, depending on where you are. stick to what’s legal. 20 – 21 is prime for a 24 y/o

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  38. @25 sebastian

    no offense man, but it comes. you’re trying too hard. just relax, chill, and have good times. the worst thing to do is overthink and overanalyze

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  39. Considering Roissy’s height and that he refers to the girl as “very tall” I can only assume he was making out with a junior member of the WNBA. If you’re going to suck face with a giraffe you’re going to be seen pretty much regardless of the locale. Maybe she just didn’t look around because she didn’t want to risk the vertigo.

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  40. “dude. 16 y/o or 17 y/o often can land you in jail,”
    That’s good advice. However, if 16 is legal there is no reason not o go for it. Just check out well you state kaws. Luckily for me, AOC is 14 where I live.

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  41. Her: “Hey you’re going to call me, right? Promise?”

    Me: “Only if you have a thick, rich, luxuriant thatch, overflowing with magnificent aromas and flavors.”

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  42. I’m for keeping sara around. She’s a troll, but even trolls can be funny or entertaining sometimes. Always nice to see female reactions to your posts, even if it is from a divorced bitch.

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  43. Don’t worry, it doesn’t take forever, but I’d say around 24 or 25 you’ll notice a difference in your brain chemistry

    Agnostic, that’s rather interesting from my vantage point. I haven’t noticed any differences, and I’m about to turn 25 in a few more months. Hell, the only thing that I’ve noticed is that I just don’t feel as smart (or intelligent) as I used to be, and my memory has simply gone to hell.

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  44. Where body-energy-temperament changes go … And FWIW, of course … At 55, I divide my post-childhood years up this way.

    * Teen-and-student — basically you’re an overgrown child. You’re a hopeless idiot, in other words.

    * 21-ish to early 30s — young adulthood: crazy, pumped on energy, able to go-go-go, yet no longer a kid. Life’s a breathless adventure.

    * 32ish to 50ish — semi-maturity. It’s good! A very nice combo of having-some-experience, physical resilience, good attitude, and energy. At 49 I felt pretty much exactly the same as I did at 33. It was such a long run that I kind of assumed it’d go on forever. It didn’t.

    * Circa 50 my energy declined pretty drastically. The onset of late middle age, I suppose, and the beginnings of winter. I no longer had more energy than I knew what to do with, I had less than I really needed. Aches, creaks, pains became a big part of my life. On the other hand, some nice things: much more experience to draw on, more patience, less egocentricity.

    I wonder what comes next.

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  45. on August 5, 2008 at 4:41 am SovereignAmericanMale

    Topic related Post:

    The reason for this perplexing behavior is the anti-slut mechanism hardwired into every woman. The next morning she’s thinking about that “crazy makeout” she had with a total stranger and convincing herself that she is not that type of girl, it was just the heat of the moment.

    In the past, I have made it a point to finger-bang her in a secluded area (dark corner) which allows you to sample her bouquet.

    This gives you some quality control data. (Does she have a yeast infection, or on her period?) if she passes your entry/ban QC.

    {note: carry some finger cots, in addition to your condoms, as your safer sexual practices do turn some girls on}

    If your asking yourself why bother in the first place?

    The answer is you can totally Kino her right into bed and “OMG close”. And on Monday evening, it will be her leaving voicemails that you don’t return.

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  46. on August 5, 2008 at 4:41 am SovereignAmericanMale

    @27 agnostic

    And if I were you, I wouldn’t be distracted by girls your own age when you turn 24 — I’d go right for the 16 to 18 year-olds.

    This gets into City girl vs Country Girl becomes co-ed.

    While the city girl does have her charms, odds are she is pretty liberal but isn’t crazy enough to bang with older men. (at least while sober)

    The country girl who comes to Austin to go to UT or to A&M in College Station, has been repressed since puberty and finally has no parental controls. She completely looses her sanity for her 1st semester.

    Now If you are an older male, on campus, and you are encouraging her freedom and experimenting (smoking pot, using alcohol) as an “anti-dad” getting into her panties is Ahem easy as pie.

    Your girls here are just out of high school and are in the 16-19 range. AoC in TX = 17 and remember that 19 is still a teenager.

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  47. PA —

    I think we are on the same page. Women want the guy who is the highest status guy in the group. The one who decides. Usually there is only one guy in a group. Which means, as men compete for women, that sort of one-upmanship ends up spiraling ever upward.

    Meanwhile, a lot of workplaces require backing down from that status competition. An example would be working with an outside vendor to create software. Even the most “high status” team leader has no real control over the outside vendor, who works to spec on his contract and will do the least amount of work for the highest amount of revenue. Sometimes the outside vendor is a partner, or is paid by the ultimate customer. Pulling the kind of gamesmanship that wins in the club can kill any chance of the outside vendor delivering what you need.

    It doesn’t have to be loud-mouthed. Just subtly tick off a partner in India, who has ten other clients and is trying to juggle huge turnover, and your whole project can go south quick. Often you have to cajole, beg, bribe, bank and call on favors, none of which is “Alpha” but gets the job done with people you have zilch authority over and who will probably never have to deal with you later.

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  48. on August 5, 2008 at 5:44 am SovereignAmericanMale

    @25 Sebastian Flyte

    There is an eternal recurrance, Groundhog day aspect to the game that I am already finding tiresome.

    This is why you have a soulmate.

    Ultimately, its a question of priorities.

    All you can eat buffet vs The One
    Misses Right Now vs Miss Right.

    But even with the soulmate, game will likely be required to keep her happy and satisfied. You have the sole duty of keeping her doing an eternal and daily “buy in”.

    Just like with the meaningless infinite number of skirts that will mark time in your sheets.

    Do you want one face/mind or many temporary placeholders?

    Game can be summed up as giving her the “why”.
    The “how” is physics and biology.
    The “who” is determined by the You, Playa.
    The “where” is meaningless.
    But the “when” is eternal.

    Groundhog day until you die.

    Or you can go be a hermit on a mountain somewhere.

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  49. I haven’t noticed any differences, and I’m about to turn 25 in a few more months

    Everyone’s different and some people are late bloomers. Sounds like you are one.

    the only thing that I’ve noticed is that I just don’t feel as smart (or intelligent) as I used to be, and my memory has simply gone to hell

    If you don’t drink too much or smoke pot, there is no reason to start feeling dumber at your age. Those who feel aimless, depressed or under chronic stress have the feelings you describe but that goes away when your situation changes.

    Also, when you’re out of school, a mental laziness can kick in, which can feel like you’re getting dumber.

    Often you have to cajole, beg, bribe, bank and call on favors,

    I do feel like we’re generally on the same page but I think you overstate the emasculating effect of the workplace. For what it’s worth, I am sometimes in a position to select vendors at work. I find myself leaning toward selecting ones who present themselves confidently but respectfully, and unimpressed by arrogant ones or ones who are try to ingratiate themselves to me. Those just evoke contempt in me.

    I wonder what comes next.

    Michael, that’s an excellent age-breakdown. I’m in my late 30s and I feel like I’m at my peak right now. I’m not sure there is a whole lot I’m missing from my late teens or early twenties. Yeah, there is no way I can run a sub-2 minute 800m (a thought that would have been devastating to me at 17) any more and I’d probably score slightly lower on the math SAT if I took it now.

    But what you say about having a “very nice combo of having-some-experience, physical resilience, good attitude, and energy” is spot-on. I’ll add that unlike in one’s twenties, the boyish self-obsession and self-consciousness are gone.

    I’m glad you say that this will run until the early 50s!

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  50. on August 5, 2008 at 5:43 pm Sara/not Sara

    42 Nate

    Always nice to see female reactions to your posts, even if it is from a divorced bitch.

    Now That’s flattering. LOL

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  51. on August 5, 2008 at 5:48 pm Sara/not Sara

    45 Blow Hard

    * Circa 50 my energy declined pretty drastically. The onset of late middle age, I suppose, and the beginnings of winter. I no longer had more energy than I knew what to do with, I had less than I really needed. Aches, creaks, pains became a big part of my life. On the other hand, some nice things: much more experience to draw on, more patience, less egocentricity.

    I wonder what comes next.

    I can cure that! There is no reason in hell that getting older means tolerating all of the degenerative bullshit you describe. Unfortunately if I post the solution to your aches and pains it may blow my cover but only if I am greedy and insist on making money from your misery. If you’re interested and can be trusted email me at [email protected] and I’ll give you the solution. Trust me on this.

    P.S. I am not nearly as stupid as I seem. In fact when people meet me and get to actually know me, one of the common responses is something to the effect of, “I had no idea someone so dumb could be so intelligent.” Many a fool hides their wisdom. LOL

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  52. 16 Reggie –
    Not all of game is manipulation – I would wager most of it isn’t (depending on the school you embrace). It’s more about becoming an attractive man, an alpha male. Take shit tests – Roissy often responds to them with manipulation and calculation, but an alpha male unfamiliar with game as such might simply walk out, or firmly confront the girl on her bullshit. You can play the games and fight back, or refuse. Both have their uses.

    31 Whiskey
    The idea is not to affect the alpha male persona, but to become it. Once you become it, you don’t feel weird say, making cocky statements or telling people to do things for you. There are various ways of doing it – some use affirmations, I myself reflected on past successes to boost my confidence.

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  53. forgot to ask – what are some good outlets for being assertive and firm? i.e. what are some scenarios where you can order people around?

    I’m pretty young, and my friends have unruly little brothers who won’t respond to anything less than total confidence. Fathering of the proper sort demands it. I’m not in a position anywhere else to order people around.

    48 whiskey

    You missed the earlier point made to you, that some people simply command respect. I was taking a class in the spring, and a dude in one of the sections simply had everyone’s attention every time he talked – he wasn’t especially tall, or good-looking, nor endowed with a booming voice. He was relaxed yet spoke with conviction, and humorous while making solid points. People naturally defer to a guy like this – such a man is so charismatic you hardly notice submitting.

    To be alpha, you don’t need to try and win every battle, only what is within your reach – brashness and overconfidence as roissy himself preached is not alpha. Was Mao Zedong ‘beta’ because he encouraged guerilla warfare at one point?

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  54. “As I get more into the game, flaking girls have become my biggest problem. ”

    I used to think that women tended to not want to commit. Your idea is better ego protection.

    My best friend was wrong – don’t let anyone tell you it is just that they are not into you.

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  55. “@ #4 Sebastian

    I never read the game but I too have found that this lifestyle has made me more misogynistic.”

    Dearest Sebastian, the embodiment of my love,

    My dearest, please keep in your heart and loins always this fine hedonistic lifestyle we share. Please never forget our deepest beauty, in communion. We can’t find this place alone.

    Cynicism dies in the face of hormones. Get out of your head.

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  56. on August 7, 2008 at 4:08 pm Sara the benevolent ruler

    55 Guy noir

    “As I get more into the game, flaking girls have become my biggest problem. ”

    I used to think that women tended to not want to commit. Your idea is better ego protection.

    Protecting your ego is asking for pain, pain, and more pain and drama. Whomever you were quoting was telling you that upping their game has just created a new form of misery, so take a hint.

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  57. 4 Sebastian

    Everything we’d built up over the last eight hours would just go down the drain. So it hardened me.”

    Eight HOURS???? I just caught the tail end or your comment and couldn’t help laughing. Have you learned yet that it takes a bit more than eight hours to establish any kind of trust. Probably more like eight months. You were just expecting way too much, the same way she was expecting way too much from you in eight hours.

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  58. “Agnostic — do you have any quantifiable and cite-able data for the assertion that estrogen levels drop drastically in the mid twenties or so? I’ve heard that female fertility starts to drop drastically after 26 or so, but I’ve never seen any studies cited to back up that claim.”

    Of course he doesn’t.

    It’s inaccurate to equate fertility with ‘estrogen levels’. There are three different kind of estrogens (estrone, estiodol, estriol), each one is present at different levels, at different ages and times, and has specific effects on men and women’s bodies from the time we are fetuses, until death. Estrogens (which are converted from testosterone and other androgens by an enzyme called aromatase in both men and women) are what masculinize the brain of male fetuses in utero.

    It is very true that the ideal time for women to have children is around 18-25. Younger teen years are very fertile also, but regardless of health care teenagers and their babies are higher risk immediately and in the future. It’s hard on the body to gestate while still growing, and the pelvis doesn’t reach adult proportions in many girls until the late teens. After age 25, most women start to experience a slow decline in fertility, but this doesn’t become pronounced until after age 30. Our ovaries are hardly ‘shriveling’, although our looks may be fading.

    Progesterone and the other hormones influencing ovulation play a much larger role in female fertility, and their production begins to falter by age 30.

    Abnormally high levels of estrogens (without balancing progesterone) cause infertility and other fun side effects like male-pattern baldness or thinning of hair, abdominal fat deposits, excess hair growth of the body, adult acne, skin roughness and irregularities (discoloration, skin tags). These things all become more common in women with age, but again it’s a function of PROGESTERONE, not estrogens.

    Estrogen production in most women does not undergo significant changes until the late 30s, then declines steadily until menopause when it drops off precipitously.

    Male fertility also declines drastically with age and is correlated with falling testosterone levels. Between ages 20 and 40+, the seminiferous tubules in the testicles go from containing 90% mature sperm to 50%. Quality and motility of sperm also declines and risks of birth defects and later problems rise with older fathers. A recent study is Israel correlated paternal age with autism disorders, and many sperm banks are now only accepting donor sperm from men under age 40.

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  59. […] ideal kiss window should open effortlessly if your game is tight. Girls who are being seduced properly *want* to be kissed. Always check for dilating pupils, hair […]

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