Reader Mailbag: The Uphill Battle

What does an uphill battle with a girl in chat look like? A reader who shall go by the initials “CM” writes,

Attached is my first contribution for your critique and the amusement of readers of the hallowed chambers of the Château.

Here in middle sized university city UK there aren’t too many 8+ around on your average night out. My current plates consist of an English 8 (29), Indian student 6.5 (21) and Polish nurse 7 (31). Swapping out the 6.5/7 for something hotter is a proving tricky since I don’t approach in sufficient numbers. Most of the 8+ are aged 18-24. I usually let them guess my age and then correct them at their guess plus 1 (recently ranging from 23-28) – I’m 34.

This conversation was after a 5 min chat outside a cocktail bar. I was acquainted with one of her friends that used to work somewhere I shopped. I didn’t have great confidence in a further meeting since the interaction was brief and wasn’t as sexually charged as I would have wanted to get. Fighting an uphill battle?

Feel free to publish the chat but please omit my name and her photo (a solid 8 I reckon).

The girl is attractive and slender. She would be a nice addition to the Chateau seraglio.

Here’s CM’s messaging exchange.

As you can see, her shit tests come charging right out of the gate (as is the automatic reflex of pretty girls).

who and huh? Haha

CM swats it away. I’ve read this text exchange a couple of times, and it’s interesting to me because there doesn’t appear to be a moment when CM blew it. There was no “bad game” that could be blamed for killing a promising vibe. He gets some decent teases in there, and doesn’t chase too hard.

If there were a couple of missteps that I had to call out, they would be:

you’re the nerdy little beautician right?

This is a passable neg, but I have a policy against total recall in chats. Very subtly, the act of remembering a drunk woman’s job when all you have in common with her is a short conversation is, to a woman’s mind, something of a beta tell. This is especially true for young, cute women who get a lot of attention from desperadoes. She will think (or her limbic node will think for her), “This guy must really like me if he remembered something about me I don’t even remember telling him.” If you have to ask, this isn’t a good emotion to evoke in a girl who hasn’t invested anything in you.

The other misstep:

Yeh im fussy too. U live close by in?

Dragging out the “full bod massage” script flipping was probably overkill at this point, but the question about where she lives was unnecessary and, since we’re talking about a girl CM hardly knows, a risky probe. Girls are very circumspect of men who ask what could be misconstrued as stalker questions. I would’ve just suggested a venue and then let her explain, if required, why that venue is too far for her.

Maybe the other thing CM should’ve done is offer a day for a date that was a little further into the future, instead of the next day.

None of these quibbles are of major concern. (TBH, I don’t get his last message. Was that a non sequitur text game attempt?) My take is that in the hour between him suggesting tomorrow for a date and her rejection, some old flame, or new guilt, reasserted himself or itself in her life. Her rejection — I work late and long days — is an obviously implausible blowoff (what, is she working 168 hour weeks?), but I don’t see it being a consequence of CM dropping the ball somewhere. It looks more like (my best guess) fate intervened against CM, or she is the kind of girl (beautician! hah) who really responds sexually to edgier jerkboys. If the latter, CM needed to communicate that better in his messages. As is, he’s operating in Jerkboy Lite mode, and that won’t cut it for the younger hotties.


  1. on December 8, 2014 at 3:49 pm I'll curl in the squat rack if I fucking well feel like it.

    As an English man, I can guarantee this is the most PG, post drunk texting a UK beautician has ever got. I used to see one, and her mind, along with her moronic colleagues, ahem, ‘minds’ are rough as a hookers handler. Strong hive-mind mentality, same as hairdressers.


    • OT: The onslaught continues:

      These MIT courses were some of the best lectures in undergraduate physics. They were educating people throughout the globe on the grand daddy of all markets, the Empirical market.

      It begins with Physics, and ends with history. Knowledge is barred unless delivered from “approved” sources.

      I’ve suddenly had a desire to rekindle my old hunting hobby.


    • on December 9, 2014 at 1:09 pm Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM)

      GBFM TEXT: lostas cockas 4u
      HER: didn’t u violate the worpress terms of servise?
      GBFM: lzozzozlzlz
      HER: i’ll be right over u badboy zlzozozol


  2. Sometimes it can take a week or two for her impression to sink in. And sometimes she’ll hold a man off at arm’s length until she knows him for months and suddenly she has a breakup and is available.

    I wouldn’t worry about her, just soft-next her, look for other plates, and if she decides she likes him, she’ll flirt further.


  3. A. She isn’t that invested in him
    B. His vibe is too PG 13 as CH and others have pointed

    But it’s not totally a lost case yet. She’s still replying. I’d up the asshole, and get her invested more in the interaction.

    I’d text her again in a day or two without mentioning the rejection at all. Text her something saucy. Like asking if she did anything on boring today. If she says yes, send me a pic. Order her to do something very small. Frog in boiling water and all that. If she sends a pic, ask for a raunchier one. Get her invested. More invested.



    • Yea, she isn’t too interested. She expects him to propose another time to get together. So why not go full asshole? I remember playing this little game and instead of chasing me the guy basically said “Ok your loss babe” or whatever, kept it light but basically telling me he wasn’t going to try again. So then I think “what an arrogant ass” but the reality is, now he has my attention.


      • Nah, pull back like I recommended and let her Hamster fill in the part she didn’t remember when she was drunk, where he implies that she was aggressive towards him. Use A&A. Let her chase. Issue a compliance test.

        I’ve been teasing a tart I know for some time, issuing compliance tests and breaking rapport with her. She keeps coming back for more, hoping for eventual validation sex. “The carrot is just a little farther. Keep moving.” Great fun!


    • Looking at the texts again, I see there was too much overgaming going on.

      She: village near xyz
      Him: shame

      Shame? Why go there? He asked where she lives, she complied with a honest answer. Reward her with a date. Bold move. Direct expression. there has to be one at some time. Is she going to do it?

      Him: drinks friday at abc club
      Her: i work late and long days so no go for me
      Him: how abt a 3some with me & my fb later
      Her: Whatever

      Why invest more at this point. She’s obviously not invested enough to commit yet. Wait it out. Spin other plates.

      In this case, direct expression of desire is Alpha. There’s nothing to lose. Text is one on one. She can’t even make friend of him for asking her for a date or a threesome with her friends or boyfriend. He has nothing to lose, simply because he has nothing to gain. He can’t lose face.

      If she does start convo again, take it from there, and get to the point within 2-3 texts. Setup a meet. Or GTFO.


  4. She: “I waaas very drunk. Paying for it today”

    He: “Yah, u were way 2 forward with me. So pay more. Buy me a drink @ XXX’s 10:30 Fri.”


  5. on December 8, 2014 at 4:12 pm themanofmystery2

    My edits are as follows:

    1. Her: “MMM how’d you get my number?”
    Him: “You insisted on putting it in my phone. Man, you were wasted!”

    Reasoning: playfully calling a girl “Man” is a subtle neg, and establishes frame as her being the chaser

    2. Her: “I think I would remember that!”
    Him: “To answer your question, I prefer meat sauce w/ marinara. Never had a girl I wasn’t even dating offer to cook! I accept. 7PM Friday at my place. Come alone, no cops. (address here).”

    Reasoning: Subtle play on her not remembering the evening. “Committing her to things she never said” game is one of my favorites – totally playful and broads love it. “Come alone, no cops” – playful again, and subtly dangerous.

    3. Her: “I work late and long days so it’s a no go”
    Him: “Which corner? (deadpan emoticon)”

    At this point, it was a dead duck, but if it got to this point, the only appropriate response is to amuse oneself. Then, say nothing and see if she reopens.


    • “Man, you were wasted!”

      Nah. This is a DLV. You’re implying she only gave you her number against her better judgement.

      Her reply to
      “Yeh Im fussy too etc” is where he blew it. In all preceding texts she used a smiley/exclamation.

      “Village near –” no punctuation.

      he negs her about being just a pretty face, she disqualifies herself further. Another data point on wavering interest.

      Note that her responses after that are short, non commital

      also, throughout the conversation, the guy is CONSTANTLY qualifying himself in a roundabout way (full bod massage, im fussy too, “hoped” you had a better comeback, I dont want a penpal either, keep your hands off me, tmr good for me —- any of these could hypothetically work, but IF the girl responds to it. she’s ignoring these self references and talking about herself instead – a subtle slap in the face).

      Finally, his responses get longer as the conversation continues. A gif or image sometimes goes a long way.
      When she backs off, he shouldve backed off more.

      *flies away*


    • “Which corner?”
      That took me a minute, then I chortled. So subtle and so powerful. +1


  6. on December 8, 2014 at 4:12 pm having a bad day

    …she calls him on his misstep…

    ‘Haha okay if’

    he used ‘if’…not ‘when’…when he attempted to set up the meet…he failed to assume the sale…and paid the price of his beta tell…no tingles = beta fail…


    • i missed that. good catch.


    • yeah that if was where it felt like it was off the rails to me too, but nice catch, i hadn’t put together that he’d just established the ‘if’ as opposed to ‘when’ himself. i’d probably screw it up elsewhere, but i don’t think i’d have made that mistake


    • Damn these cunts nowadays are razor precise.


      • A hot, young woman, has limbic intuition levels way more developed than any men, except for the strongest natural alphas. When I talk with men 24 and under, I understand how helpless I was at such age. They have it even tougher.

        Regarding social intuition and group power plays, a hot, young woman aged 23 is developed well over a decade ahead of a man the same age.


      • Yea and Iv noticed that even if you are socially more developed in certain areas that if they consciously notice it they try to have that attitude of ” No sir, that dose not work on me !!” *Ghetto Black Girl Voice* even if you are and they will copy your swag and try to prevent it next time.


      • I’m to the point now were I’ll play dumb in an Alpha way so they won’t copy my swag and it also keeps you one step ahead to a degree.


    • By calling his misstep she improves his game. It’s funny how in a way she literally helps him out subconsciously. If she was conscious you know she would do everything in her power to stop it.



      • Which makes me wonder, since chicks never explain what you are doing wrong at the time, she might actually like him. He should wait a few days and say meet me at X at Y pm. No explanations or negotiations unless she gives exact diff time she can make it. Otherwise, I’d next but build on next chance meeting if happens.


      • No offence but she did not have any idea that she was helping him, it was just my observation, I doubt he will be able to get this one back unless he has super tight game but internet jockingly judging it dose not seem likely his lack of jerkyness.


  7. That hour was time she spent defining another relationship. If the second guy hadn’t panned out she’d have been there for drinks.


  8. Sort of OT…On the topic of escalation. There’s a slight loophole I often encounter – would appreciate readers’ responses.

    Once you have a solid rotation of fuckbuddies, who will come to your house at the drop of a hat, what’s the most failsafe way to escalate without triggering ASD? This is something I’ve never really properly mastered. With a one-nighter or the first time a girl comes back to mine it’s always from a public place, so you can escalate the minute you both walk in the door. Easy peasy.

    However, subsequent to this first bang, when she comes directly to mine, believe it or not I have actually had a non-trivial number of occasions where I’ve managed to activate the girl’s ASD/LMR EVEN when we’ve banged before.

    Once she’s established she’s coming over directly to fuck, what’s a failsafe way to escalate without triggering her ASD or LMR?

    What do readers think about escalating the minute a fuckbuddy walks in the door? A good strategy?

    First world problems I know…..


    • cocaine…


    • Have a very short, fun game ready to play with her when she comes in the door.
      “Hey honey, the rule tonight is that you have to hold my hand/elbow/tshirt when going from one room to another” or “tonight, we have to speak only in whispers, and if either one of us forgets, they must be punished”, Guess what the punishment is?

      Doesn’t matter what the rule or game is, its just a tool to lead to the real purpose of her visit, while making it fun and adroitly bypassing the ASD.

      Have a list of games, and never use the same rule/game with the same girl, although you can take the same rule/game and add a twist after a few other times have passed since the last time you used it.


      • JFC…did you ever just try actually TALKING TO THEM for a fuckin few minutes and pouring them a drink!??!

        Like actually treating them like a real human being instead of a fuckhole for maybe 20 minutes? I do not mean to impute in any way that they are anything more than a slutty fuckhole but you’re asking about how to get what you want.

        Maybe even try a little cuddling and nonsexual physical contact…this guy YR wrote the same thing now I see below me.

        I have shown up at the door fuckin naked for these hoes…even still, they all wanna talk a bit. They ALL try to convert me into a bf, tell me how I’m beautiful and all of this crap. I still get the sex; just pour more booze and go back into pickup mode. The difference is you can pull your freakin dick out and overtly grab whatever you want if she’s a FB.

        Here’s my piece of advice- learn to love the sound of your own voice. I get a bit lit, get them lit, and I entertain not only them but me. So we both have a good time, then I fuck them and then I talk more after.


    • “Once you have a solid rotation of fuckbuddies, who will come to your house at the drop of a hat, what’s the most failsafe way to escalate without triggering ASD?”

      “I’ve managed to activate the girl’s ASD/LMR EVEN when we’ve banged before.”

      Odds are either:

      1) YOU feel weird about having sex right away (like in your mind you think “but then I’d just be using her! We should watch a movie or have a drink first or it’s sleazy”) and she’s picking up on that and reflecting it (since what you feel, she feels).

      Or 2) She doesn’t feel like a special snowflake, so she wants to just cuddle and chat about her week or re-build comfort since last time you’ve seen her…just cuddle up while you’re stroking her arm and hair and let her blab and say some shit about your life and then escalate after like 10 min of that. If this is the issue, then you can avoid this by building more special snowflake status in your texts before meeting up and after sex when you’re cuddled up for like half an hour, which are the places I usually do it.

      So like some guys will just text a girl “bring da movies” and that’s the only text they’ve sent the girl since the last time they’ve banged, or they’ll kick a girl out right after sex or not build a connection (run some basic rapport and qualifying stuff, see Juggler Method) with her afterward while cuddling, and that’s cool but that can cause the situation you run into where once they meet up they have to make her feel special by hanging out a bunch before the sex (which risks triggering ASD if the guy really just wanted to bang her and views going for a drink or watching a movie etc. as frustrating and his sub-comms get all outcome dependent).

      I txt with girls (just random flirting shit) thru the week, esp if I’m planning to meet up with them soon, and I let them cuddle afterward and build our bond, so when they come over they already feel special and I can just open the door and say “hey. mmm you look good” and pin them against the wall, makeout, and we’re half-naked before we leave the door area lol

      The other possibility is option 3) she wants more of a relationship. So if she’s trying to weasel her way into an LTR with you, she’ll start delaying the sex and trying to build more rapport to try to win you over with her personality…usually this comes with stuff like wanting to meet up outside of your apartment like at dinner or going on an actual date to a movie or whatever, but inside your apartment it can mean delaying sex as long as possible to just cuddle up being “BF & GF” to a movie…the big one is when they try to come over and cuddle up and NOT put out, that’s the big shit-test to see if they can convert you to a boyfriend or not. Can’t do much about this once it happens, but you can prevent it for a longer period of time by being less boyfriend-material…I disqualify myself so hard as a potential boyfriend that I don’t get this situation much anymore. But if you come off like you would make a good boyfriend, you can get this fast…that’s why some rich guys will find they get a girl who wanted to fuck home and she suddenly sees he has a mansion and BMW and she all of a sudden won’t put out that night even tho she fully intended to before, because suddenly he’s shown himself to be good boyfriend material so she’ll want to try to weasel into an LTR with him instead of just fucking lol

      So try to narrow down which of those 3 it is for each girl, see if you can find a common pattern. The bad news is this is something you’re doing/causing (it’s a symptom of a disease, gotta’ fix the disease not just the symptom), but the good news is it’s something fixable. Step back and look at your game objectively and put yourself in their shoes and view it all thru those lenses and see if any of those possibilities fits.

      “What do readers think about escalating the minute a fuckbuddy walks in the door? A good strategy?”

      This is what I do lol I tell them to dress sexy and I open the door, give them the down and up with my eyes like a sleaze, laser them with sexual eye-contact and go “mmm, you look good tonight…” and pin their arms above their head on the wall/door, go in close face to face, sniff their neck “mmm you smell good too…”, nibble, etc. etc. and either start going at it right there, or take their hand and lead them over to my bedroom, or if they’re tiny I’ll pick them up with their legs wrapped around my waist, or fireman carry, or the general rescue carry where their knees are over one arm and the other arm is holding their back, and carry them to my bedroom, toss ’em on the bed and we’re good to go. Because I tell them in advance to dress sexy for me, the tone is already set that I’m going to ravage them and another result of that is that I end up never seeing girls looking ugly lol…because they know we’re going to have sex and I’m going to pounce them right away and I told them to dress hot they show up looking like they’re going to a nightclub, instead of telling them “come over and we’ll watch a movie” where they might show up dressed plain/ugly. Their boyfriend gets to fuck them in their “comfies” sweatpants and no makeup, but I get them all done up lol

      I started experimenting with this because I was poor and lazy, I couldn’t afford to waste the booze in my fridge on girls, and definitely couldn’t afford to go on dates etc., and just didn’t want to invest the time in hanging out watching movies for 2 hours before we had sex or having nights where they’d come over and we don’t fuck at all. So I started seeing how fast I could escalate and if I could shave time off with txting etc. and learned to calibrate it the more I experimented, and I realized that I could lay a lot of groundwork via txt and cuddles so that I could just escalate quickly at the door.

      With regular FBs, they know that they’re going to get some time with me to feel special after we bang, because they have the reference experience that I like to fuck and then talk and won’t just kick them out and they know we’ll txt thru the week, so they’re happy to bang right away…if they worried I was going to kick them out they would hesitate more.

      Sometimes with a regular I’ll purposely stall and NOT escalate and just tease her and blab about stupid shit just to frustrate her but there’s no chance of her not having sex with me when I do that stuff so that’s just me self-amusing lol

      Hope this helps. There was a time where I felt like it would be crazy to just escalate at the door too. Now I can’t even imagine sitting around watching a movie with a girl, unless like, it’s porn or something lol


      • Fuck man. The void in the average man’s brain on these most sensitive topix.



      • best Ya post in a while. props homie. ASD is really the last rubicon for a player. your shit is invaluable.


      • on December 9, 2014 at 10:24 am Bobby Cuddlefuck

        Agreed. Ya is a treasure. Mate, would love to see a comprehensive post on text game. Was going through the archives but couldn’t find what I was looking for. Any help would be much appreciated. Ta


      • @yareally

        Agree with your post for the most part. Though the frame should be that YOU are the prize. The frame I have with every mLTR / FB that she gets sex with me only if she’s a good girl, works hard for it and dresses sexy for me. I often pretend I have ASD and she has to ‘win me over’, or I’ll start making out with her and turn her on and tease her hard and say “you get the rest later” then we go to a movie or whatever.

        They can tell from my subcomms that I have a lot of sex and they don’t get me just because they have a pussy. An hb8 mLTR recently complained “you make me work so much for everything! it’s always me chasing you to hang out and you only fuck me twice when I see you!” She’s addicted to me because I am a scarce resource.

        If you are an non-needy Alpha with game you are literally in the top 1% of men. You are the prize. ASD from a girl you’ve already fucked should never be an issue


      • @Bobby cuddlefuck
        Ya has said he will not do a “comprehensive” post on text game because what that usually means is providing verbatim messages. He prefers we learn the attitude/mentality behind good game texts rather than just copy pasta.


      • +1 Great 1-2-3 breakdown. If the guy can’t read body language/feelings, there’s no fixing that with more theory.


      • on December 9, 2014 at 2:47 pm Bobby Cuddlefuck

        @pulsotic I deffo don’t want any copy and paste fodder. Too original for that. However, when gaming in real life I know the steps and can intuit from a girl’s sub comms what I need to do. However, without that feedback, I am at a bit of a loss. When texting my more rational mind is at play, aka tingle killer. Haha


      • Somebody get this guy a publisher quick…#johnnymanzielmoneysign


      • on December 11, 2014 at 3:56 am Twelve Bloody Scalps On My Belt

        Pure gold.



    • If you don’t have clear signals and want to lead the escalation yourself – have a nice bottle of wine and tell her you’d like an assist in attacking it. Or fancy tea or some good coffee or rare cheese you want to try, doesn’t matter what, just something she likes. Women usually want to get a bang on but not – up front – in a way that makes them feel like they are just getting used by some clown. Two times in a row, pour a drink, chat and when she starts moving from “News” to “Human Interest” blather – 15 minutes probably, start to escalate gradually, sweetly.

      Third time when she shows up at your place, give her a look and a hard kiss and if she’s responding well start tearing her clothes off as you’re shutting the door and have her roughly right there on the floor, maybe mix something in physically you haven’t done before. Only after that invite her to have that drink with you. (Don’t be clueless and fall asleep on her, keep up the pretense for the visit). Act like you’ve been in the desert all day and she’s a tall glass of ice cold water, then when the beast is tamed go back to being Mr. Suave.. She will remember this and think about it, particularly the clothes tearing off part. .

      Then go back to pouring her a drink and having a chat and proceeding as if you were civilized for the next couple times she comes over, act polite, escalate at her pace Deploy Thirsty Oversexed Guy just once in a while. Better be ready for her to want to move out of the harem and into the master’s place though, you start doing this kind of shit. You may create an obsessed chick otherwise, which is no fun.


      • Some good input there, thanks guys.

        I guess I’m just looking for the most efficient way from point A to point B when you’ve literally got a different girl at your place every night of the week, and multiples on weekends.

        Getting “lit” and/or entertaining them gets really old after a while, and it’s not sustainable when you’re getting 5+ girls back to your crib each week. You just want the most efficient route (heh) possible.

        To be honest, on a school night, I’d rather not have someone over if it’s going to take me an hour of entertaining before the bang.

        I realize that what I’m after here is pretty advanced game advice. I’m already successfully gaming them to within an inch of their life – what I need now is efficiency strategies and filtering out the time-wasters.

        As I said, first world problems…..


  9. Hey CH, in my experience paypal has kinda sucked for getting consistent donations. Something you may want to look into is, an online patronage system. There are a bunch of rando blogs without your history making $500 a month. The webcomic Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal makes $7.5k a month.

    *raises a glass to CH’s continued existence*


    • on December 8, 2014 at 8:14 pm themanofmystery2

      I dunno, you may want to try the old fashioned way. There were some panhandlers Sunday at First Energy Stadium that got in their Escalades after the game and drove home.


      • nah. I say take a picture of a burned down house and hit GoFundMe.

        20th century digital offramp panhandling baby!


  10. She: I work late and long days so it’s a no go for me
    He: Bring da movies


  11. on December 8, 2014 at 5:04 pm Charlie Don't Surf

    This whole two day text exchange should have been covered in the initial 5 minute chat outside the cocktail bar. Failing that – make a direct dial call. He had the number. Nope, IMHO – the battle was lost when it played out by text.


  12. on December 8, 2014 at 5:11 pm scriptflipper

    The reason for my last comment was really clutching at straws. I thought that I could assert some dominance over her (self-employed beautician that works long hours) realm by inferring I was a past master at growing small businesses.
    Jerkboy ante upping protocol initiated..


    • Rule of thumb: if you type out a text and you’re wondering if you’re taking the jerkboyishness too far, you’re not.


      • Lol, I texted, “For your boring, narcissistic poll, ‘Surfer or missionary?'” She defriended me, Hehe. No loss. Remember Gamer maxim: “Women are like busses. There’ll be a new one along in ten minutes.”


    • on December 8, 2014 at 10:32 pm having a bad day


      i usually recommend trying to turn things around…it’s the best place to learn…but that’s usually in the context of more investment from the girl…i.e. there’s already some type of relationship started…in this case, it was just one nibble of (what should have been) your many approaches from that night…so, learn the lessons and move on…(i can’t believe i wrote that…lol). besides the lessons CH points out, here’s some more…

      lesson – ALWAYS assume the sale…of course girls want to hang out with you/sex you up…

      lesson – (related) NEVER assume/say that she forgot anything about you…that’s beta…(even/especially when joking/making things up…)…

      ‘not too drunk to forget you said you’d make me dinner and a full body massage too…with a happy ending’ (don’t forget to sexualize!…)

      lesson – NEVER use the word ‘SHAME’ when talking to girls…your approach should be ‘non-judgmental’ as possible…yes, i know that logically it doesn’t make any sense…so what?…lol…

      lesson – NEVER invoke one of the deadly 7 (like your questioning where she lived)…

      lesson – (related) NEVER try to do the work of arranging the meeting with you FOR the girl = beta tell…when you start talking about where she lived that’s what you were hinting at…you do however arrange logistics, so it can ‘just happen’…but that’s after the date has already started…

      lesson – (most important one…) making mistakes is just part of the game…

      good luck!


    • on December 8, 2014 at 10:34 pm having a bad day


      got one caught in the stack…


    • “inferring I was a past master at X”

      As an older guy, you need to avoid the temptation to give out life lessons, unless asked. DHV and experience, worldliness is OK, as long as it is not try hard, but life coaching will kill the vibe. You want a sexualized vibe.


    • Longs hours not…her hobbies are working out drinking and fucking…go get er’ tiger…


  13. Are Chinese or Indian men more beta/low-SMV?

    The way I see it:

    Chinese/Orientals – Lesser Beta
    Indian/Pak – Omega.


    • Bro — seriously – do you want to go there?


      • I see why he did what he did first of all he needs to fix his faggot posture.


      • This Indian/Paki kid Kimveer Gill shot up his school.

        Before shooting up his school, he complained he hadn’t been on a date in a month. Omega sexual frustration.

        East Asians are less beta, but South Asians are painfully omega.

        Even Heartiste recognizes that.

        “Indian men are the world heavyweight champions of the entire world of creepy beta game.”


    • I knew a Paki who was a Dark triad, psychopath satan. But many of them are also nerds.


      • A friend of mine told me about this Indian guy in his gym class in college who would walk up to literally every female and say “excuse me miss, your body is a wonderland” in his very Indian accent. Thinking about it years later this could actually be a pretty hilarious/interesting opener, esp. for a non-Indian, but he was totally sincere and totally engineering major Indian, so…


    • It’s an interesting question… it’s possible Asian men suck with women because they are genetically adapted for arranged marriages, whereas European men have to rely on game to attract their wives from the general population.


      • “it’s possible Asian men suck with women because they are genetically adapted for arranged marriages”

        I’d say most of it is cultural. Some of my best wingmen (with white chicks, yep) have been asian and brown dudes who’ve learned to shed their upbringing and let their alpha side out.

        But from what I’ve seen they have MASSIVELY sexually repressive upbringings. From how their parents treat affection/sex (one buddy said his mom would change channels if anyone on TV was about to kiss and he was watching etc.) to their cultural movies/TV (a lot more focus on dating and finding “the one” and exchanging information about their families (aka resume interview dates) VS sexual seduction in their romantic movies VS American movies that are full of having premarital sex and seduction and shit).

        A lot of pickup for new guys who were nerdy virgins etc., is about just normalizing sex and normalizing talking to girls and wanting to fuck them etc., and de-programming a lot of cultural repression. A lot of my early coming-out-of-my-shell days were spent in stripclubs just normalizing women and their bodies and learning not to be ashamed about sex or looking at women as sex objects or seeing titties or talking about sexual topics etc.

        A lot of naturals are naturals because they happened to have success with women early on and normalized sex and seduction and flirting etc. at an early age while other guys were playing World of Warcraft and looking at non-interactive porn, so by adulthood one guy is comfortable with women and sex and the other guy is a repressed neurotic basket-case.

        But in terms of actual in-field results, chicks don’t care. Girls who actively say they aren’t into non-white guys will fuck my asian/brown buddies because they classify them in another category…their coolness separates them from IT nerds and convenience store employees and the girls don’t register the cognitive dissonance…it’s the same way they say they didn’t cheat because they were on vacation so it “didn’t count”. My buddies “don’t count” as asian/brown guys to the girls because they don’t fit the stereotype.

        The funniest is when a girl makes fun of non-white guys TO my non-white buddies, because for a second the girls literally forget that they’re the race they’re making fun of because girls register vibe rather than looks.

        None of this will make sense to guys who haven’t seen it in person a bunch of course lol And these guys are rare but a non-white dude who wants to learn to get white chicks can absolutely do it. Blaming race is just making excuses.


      • I’d say most of it is cultural. Some of my best wingmen (with white chicks, yep) have been asian and brown dudes who’ve learned to shed their upbringing and let their alpha side out.

        But from what I’ve seen they have MASSIVELY sexually repressive upbringings. From how their parents treat affection/sex (one buddy said his mom would change channels if anyone on TV was about to kiss and he was watching etc.) to their cultural movies/TV (a lot more focus on dating and finding “the one” and exchanging information about their families (aka resume interview dates) VS sexual seduction in their romantic movies VS American movies that are full of having premarital sex and seduction and shit).

        I could understand that, being one of those types myself.


      • @YaReally – this reply is a bit late but just chiming in to say this is SPOT on (speaking as an Indian guy).

        I could go on about this but I don’t want my post to get swallowed up in mod so I will just say that:

        1. Ethnicity is still something of a disadvantage online (because it is harder to set yourself apart from the stereotype) but it is doable

        2. I have NEVER, even in my most beta days sensed (in person) that my ethnicity was a disadvantage

        3. The funniest was a HB8 at the drycleaners (when I was in a relationship) who would flirt with me and was massively into me who once asked about my ethnicity and literally would not believe I was Indian till I repeated it 2-3 times. She actually said: “But I live in [part of town with lots of “typical” Indian guys] and you’re nothing like them!” (And I don’t dress or act nerdy, but I look pretty typically Indian – you can’t really mistake me for anything else).


  14. What the fuck language is this

    “Bo comeback”
    “tmr good for me in ____, after that”

    Fucking English dont speak their own language. Ive seen blacks with better English skills. I would reject him on that alone.

    This guy looks like he just copypasted a bunch of negs and lines from here and Roosh with absolutely no grace or sense of place. He wouldve been better off as an awkward beta texter than this try hard crap. For example, save that promise to keep your hands off me line (which is a good line when done right) for the actual date. It really looks like some moron cobbled together a bunch of lines and hoped they would work.

    Obvious fail is obvious.


  15. Sometimes, there’s just nothing you can do. And that’s ok.


  16. Long before I had any theoretical knowledge, I had an instinct. The instinct of “next”. Minimize investment, use the 1.4 date rule, remember and honor your shark genes.


  17. The exchange feels quite beta and a bit off (faux alpha), be it to my english ears. Yes, the sale is assumed but its done in an greasy kind of way. I’m picturing ‘fat bastard’ from austin powers texting that kind of thing… ‘oooooh yaaa love maaa sexxxxxxy body’ He’s throwing in ‘massages’, ‘dinner’ ‘hands off me’.. it’s like a bad valentines meal.. send in some candles and bubble bath and he’s all set.

    Reading her, its like she doesnt give a fuck about him or his psuedo sexual qualification efforts. After romcomesque qualifying of himself he’s also qualified her with ‘pretty face’ and is ‘hoping’ to see her. Now that the pussy is firmly placed on a pedastal he goes for the kill with organising a date. And surprise, she shoots him down. No one hour last minute intervention from a more alpha man required.

    Also the last text.. i found another way to re engage (by accident) if you text as if you are sat on your phone.. girls cant help but text you to tell you so..



    • on December 8, 2014 at 7:27 pm themanofmystery2

      “Butt dialing” works great too, especially if she hears girls laughing and giggling in the background…


    • He messed up when he said

      “I dont want a penpal either. Promise to keep your hands off me if we go for a drink?”

      The “If” part. If he assumed the sale by saying when, she would have said a totally different response which could possibly of made him get the date.


    • agree; too much imitation of alpha, no genuine. The conversation was so fucking contrived and felt like I had read it 1000 times before, probably because I had. The bitch felt the same way because SHE HAD TOO.

      Beta sperg geniuses should start to understand that as guys discover the internet and pussy they are all going to start plugging formulaic crap like this into txts en masse. Bitches ain’t so stupid they won’t notice.

      Next time:
      her: how’d you get my number?
      you: you put it down my pants, bitch


      • on December 9, 2014 at 1:32 pm Rude Awakening

        This x100. Felt like I was reading a script. Too try hard, too canned. It fails from the beginning. Hi this is so so and so hot guy from the bar.

        Her reply while cunty and a shit test is to be expected when opened like that. I wouldn’t have identified right off the bat. Make her guess who’s texting her, let her hamster spin. Be a challenge, a little mysterious. His second reply would have been a better opener with a little tweaking. “you know for a nerdy beautician you sure get wild.” something along those lines. It doesn’t even need to be ultra smooth or try hard either: “lol r u still alive?!”

        “huh who is this?”
        Proceed with stringing it along and making her hamster spin from there. Girls love trying to figure shit out.


      • And that is why for the most part you come up with your own routines and lines…shut even a female pop singer is biting chateaux phrases now…


  18. on December 8, 2014 at 7:44 pm themanofmystery2

    Ever enjoy a “well, it’s not happening so might as well act stupid” text game? Ironically the IDGAF component brings them back sometimes stronger than ever.

    Example: “look I don’t know what you’re expecting this to become.”
    Reply: 8======D
    Reply line 2: Oops sry, didn’t mean to send that
    Reply line 3: 8==================D
    Reply line 4: there. Didn’t use enough = signs


    • lol. you don’t even need line 4. ending it at line 3 is enough.


    • yessir. often this is where i will employ beta (butthurt) game.

      If your frame was tight enough from the jump and cred established, it often works well.

      a good “wow, i had kinda hoped you were different 😦 ” can often set the hook.


    • My uphill battle:

      Messaging this HB8 off and on. Both trying to be chased. She’s obviously more experienced at it.

      Current msgs: not sure how to respond to her last msg, I’m thinking she’s trying to make me chase her but I want to flip the script.

      Sunday night, me: what’s up noble one (her name means of noble birth)
      Sunday night, her: working hard fighting a deathly hangover. What’s up with yourself?

      I didn’t reply.

      Today, (Tuesday)
      Me: I’ll see you at starbar sat night. Be ready for another deathly hangover

      An hour later, her: Haha no such luck! I’ll be staying away from partying Saturday!


      • Invite her to your place for your Secret Recipe Hangover Cure.


      • For shits and giggles, pretend to be your new gf:

        Fake gf: “Back off bitch!”
        Her: “what?”
        Fake gf: “He’s mine so delete this number now!”

        Later, when you get interest from her.
        You: “I’m great. new gf 2.”
        Get her to qualify, maybe send some nudey pics. If you got a friend gf, can you get her to be seen being sweet to you? Any chick really. Sometimes a female stranger will go along with fun pretense of ‘knowing each other’. She leaves and you act like you’ll see her later. Just get body language right with her maybe 20 feet away.

        This is just conjecture in the name of empirical science.


      • You: “whats up noble one” ……gave her waaay too much value.
        Her: “working hard fighting a deathly hangover…” translation>>> “I went out partying without you, how do you feel about that?”

        Your lack of an answer her indicated butthurt. Everything else is moot. She’s a ghost. You sir are now boring as fuck, just like every other faceless beta in the crowd, and she won’t ever have to qualify you because you qualify yourself.

        Not replying to this for two days made you look butthurt and like you are unable to form a response.


      • Try to qualify her maybe use her name bad example but “other than your interesting name…what else do you have going for you that would please the man who has everything he wants…me…”


      • @no
        Please stop. Read the archives and report on what you’ve learned.


    • How tragic, nigs noggin, may have to cancel my morning tee time.


  19. All you masters out there, don’t you have to wound a hot babe’s feelings artfully to create attraction? If you leave the social situation for two in tact but with her defined deficiency, she chases to fill in the social status wound. I also think a woman is not attracted unless her face shows hurt if you curtly distance yourself physically, remove your presence. (Way to sexualize friend zone?) And I thought that if you can regularly pull 6s you can pull 8s. Aren’t they all the same old hypergamous. I’m guessing CM did not lovingly wound 8s psyche in person. If you reading this are able to get 8s, would love to know how similar and how different your ideas are from artful wounding of status pride. Assume no rock star status vag pass. lol


    • For 8’s and up, Your frame will pull em in but being a good guy keeps em. You can actually be a lot more beta after the first 10 min.

      For 6-8, you pretty much gotta be on your toes and cruel as shit constantly because they are usually competitive with the prettier girls AND they get more attention from lesser guys. These are the girls trying to up their status.

      When you ascertain a value and therefore your game, age as well as looks are equally important as can be regional (read: breeding) influences.

      An 24 YO Scottsdale 9 equals a 18 YO ASU 6 and should be treated the same. Broads wear out quick and the more you can maintain your frame, you can see them almost rank up automatically. Best way to do this is master the sideways girl glance and figure out who is eyeing you.

      Women have insanely good peripheral vision and they are masters at using it. Sometimes my main chick picks it up when I don’t…..very subtle…


      • @Tilikum So I am just learning 6-8-land. (Its like 4-star generals. lol) Yes, they are always on, scanning, scheming. It must be tiring, which is why they need me to conquer them and make that imperative moot. I’ve never had a wing girl, but if I get to spinning plates, I expect it comes naturally enough. What a world the female wild is. Thx for insights.


    • Gaming a 9 requires not only game but intrinsic value, which you can’t learn or fake. You have it –at the time– or not. Gaming 6-7s is the hardest since not only they are the most insecure and flaky, but you are also competing with a much broader range of men, since your game can overcome deficiencies in your intrinsic value (i.e. money, social proof, inner game)


      • agree totally except that a master can build value out of whole cloth (read: YaReally) with nothing but frame.

        No money, no social proof, no exquisite looks.


      • Dominance


      • Interesting assertion on the SM structure, which I must accept. I will aspire to improve both my social leverage and my sheeple magician skills and go as high as I can. I think gaming 4-5s is even harder: I wish I were entirely joking. lol It amazes me how not babes can act like they are hb7 full retail.


    • Yes you must make them chase you then hit them with the push pull…


  20. on December 9, 2014 at 2:25 am Mean Mr. Mustard

    A shorter version of this video has been gaining attention in the media.

    Russian game show.

    I couldn’t see any obvious White Nights.


  21. I’ve met this hot looking slim, petite girl who has a soft elegant look online. Immediately I sexualized the interaction and she was keen to meet up.

    I’ve created the “50 Shades of Grey” fantasy for this girl sending voice texts, calling her “my baby”… After talking about fucking our brains out, she suddenly gets cold:

    Her: “I feel this is wrong”
    Me: ?
    Her: I dont’ know
    Me: What do you mean?
    Her: It’s like we’re gonna meet n hv sex. skip all process

    This is where the forebrain/hindbrain conflict kicks in. She wants to bang me, and wants me to show her why it’s ok. I read this in Krauser’s blog and tried it:

    Me: I’m a man you’re a woman it’s natural to explore in a way we feel is right for us

    Her: if we dont’ talk abt sex. wil we hv nth to talk abt..? NEED FOR COMFORT

    I don’t take the bait. I don’t pedestalize. I do however send her a longer explanation but it’s warranted

    Me: Too many guys hide their desires and pretend. I’m a man and very open. Happiness and joy come from being free to be who we are without fear of being judged. I’m a man who wants to be with a woman who accepts her feminity and is ok with talking about anything.


    Your ex finished in 2 minutes and I’m sure you never had a conversation like ours. NOTE THE DIFFERENTIATION HERE

    Her: lol 2 mins refers to oral

    this banter goes on a few more lines then this:

    Me: What is a major turn on for you?

    Her; depends on the person I like aggressive guys

    More banter

    Her: I’m super turned on by mature n confident guys like you, who wanted younger woman badly n wil hv sex with me like never hv sex before.


    I just turned 27 2 months ago, not 30

    YES!!!! I thought this chick was some 30 year old pushing back….now I see she’s a 27 year old keen to explore…and with an older dude.

    This whole thing has been going on through text. I’m set to meet her this Thursday. She tried changing the date. I told her I could only meet between x and y times and she kept it back to our original time.

    The point here is you don’t have to be “jerk boy”…just clear and not afraid to lose her. I’ve now told her what I want her to wear how to act.

    She wants an older dude to bang her….she’s never had a dude confidently tell her how he “feels” without supplicating. I’m practicing a kind of meta game here….more expressive and responsive…sexual but dominant. She’ll follow along as you can read. Will report what happens.


    • Bottom line – you have failed to close thus far.
      I suggest upping the jerkboy significantly or else this is going to become a fucking Tolstoy novel of tedious texting to no end.


    • stop texting, give her an assload of comfort, escalate when you are face to face.

      wayyyyy over sexualizing via text for a chick you haven’t banged out.


      • THANK YOU…
        oversexualization is NOT GONNA WORK except with absolute hoez!

        How do I know this? Because I do it ALL THE EFFING TIME and blow out chicks I could have fucked had I played a comfort/nice guy tack.

        Pushing for sex smacks of not getting enough sex, aka desperation. Even when girls ask for a pic of your junk it is still a crapshoot whether you come up 7 or craps.

        If you get even a HIGHLY interested chick and you let her know you are ONLY about sex, even slutty hoez will frequently choose no. You’re not just triggering her ASD, you are lighting it on fire and taunting it.

        Remember, you can still fuck them then dump them no matter what you told them beforehand


    • I re-read it….9/10 she is gonna flake on you.

      Next time less explicit. Innuendo if you have it. You fried her circuits and her only choice was to go along.



      • the dude is a white man in china…this is like proclaiming marksmanship when you shoot fish in a barrel.

        I have a dopey friend who went to ROK to teach English. Big guy but not a player and he was so awash in pussy…chicks would come up to him on the street to have a picture taken with him.

        This bullshit doesn’t work everywhere.


    • Will be VERY surprised if she doesn’t flake on you. It’s possible that she won’t, I’ve pulled this type of thing off before, but it’s a massively low success rate…she would have to be a VERY adventurous personality type to not just meet up without much comfort/rapport but with ACTIVE sexual intent if you continue txting in this style up to the meet.

      I would pull back at this point and just text normal stuff between now and the meetup, build some non-sexual comfort/rapport, now that the actual date is arranged, to play the highest % but it can be good to plow it the way you are and just see what happens for the reference experience…like I say, it’s POSSIBLE it’ll work, I’ve seen it first-hand when I was experimenting (pushing purely sexual like this to where I’d have them pick me up at my apartment (buzzes my apartment, I just pin her against the wall in the lobby and makeout and we go in to fuck instead of going for drinks as planned), one of them drove up from another city even lol), I just found it not to be a consistently repeatable approach is all.

      If she DOES show up, I’d recommend chilling with a drink at wherever for an hour to just chat and make her feel comfortable, then start slipping in sexual topics and innuendo etc., and having an excuse to go to your place that isn’t “ok, well it looks like it’s Fuck O’Clock, let’s get going finish up your drink!” lol Also qualify her at some point like you liked how adventurous she was etc. so she feels like she’s earning you and not like you just do this with every girl.

      Every chick wants to feel at least a LITTLE special, even if she KNOWS she’s not lol That 50 Shades and Twilight shit is popular because it’s about a high-value guy who’s somehow attracted to the plain jane girl…so she feels special. The 50 Shades guy doesn’t have 10 other girls and the Twilight vampire isn’t chasing 10 other girls, they make that plain jane girl feel like she’s special, that’s part of the fantasy so give her that.

      Good luck, let us know what happens!


      • This is my experience as well. Even from chicks who asked for a pic of my dick, the flakeout is strong in these ones. They may even share pics of themselves and to continue the starwars reference, “it’s a trap!!!!”

        Showing up at the door naked is great in the movies. Real life, not so much. You have to convey some comfort.

        women have TWO PRIMARY DRIVERS-
        1, desire for sex/intimacy
        2, fear

        Your job is to amplify #1 WHILE reducing #2.

        The slower game has been far more reliable for me. Sometimes, yes, you want a meet-n-fuck and so you go this road. It’ll be obvious immediately if the girl is DTF that way or not. MANY women will simply flake out…they will agree to everything but they won’t show. Others will say “i want to ride that” and it will happen quickly.

        Usually, you are better off not sexualizing. I fundamentally disagree with the standard philosophy here on that. Immediate sexualization is a red flag. Be CHARMING.


      • @YaReally interesting comments. I’ve had HUGE success rate with this. In fact the last time I had a similar experience. I was set to meet the girl for drinks, she said “Let’s skip it and just home and fuck”. We did. She became a fuck-buddy and bondage queen: 26, a bit big but worked for a fashion brand definitely not someone you’d be embarrassed to be seen having brunch with. My flake rate with this bold approach is low. Sometimes they initially flake but in those cases it was “i was on my period” “I was sick” and we meet up after that. She texted saying she may not be feeling well as she’s had a fever this week. Not sure whether that’s just cold-feet fever but it is not out of the realm of possibility she wants to be feeling well. Will post details as they happen. Still spinning plates. 23year old is gone baby gone—zero contact since I went No contact 4 weeks ago. Other plate, I banged on the weekend. Then there’s this one….


      • @walawala
        Interesting…I’m hesitant to call it a cultural thing since, if anything you should be getting more ASD over there. But then if they’re used to a lot of super beta dudes there, it could be a “this is such an unusual opportunity that I need to see where this goes” thing.

        “She texted saying she may not be feeling well as she’s had a fever this week. Not sure whether that’s just cold-feet fever but it is not out of the realm of possibility she wants to be feeling well.”

        Curious how you handle this text of hers while running this style of game ’cause your handling of this could be where the difference is. This sounds like a standard “I want to do it, but I’m getting cold feet, but could go either way so I’m setting it up incase I DO chicken out” text. I would be pulling back into non-sexual comfort/rapport, instead of doing a Soft Next/Freezeout or pushing harder sexually. What’s your plan when you run into this?

        My standard move now is to go sexual off the bat like you were doing, then when I have a Day2 locked down (actual time/day scheduled and agreed upon) I turn off the sexual shit aside from very light flirting till we actually meet in person, then go full sexual and escalate fast. I just got too much flaking if I kept the sexual stuff up with no comfort/rapport sprinkled in lol They’d still be receptive to texting but I had to disarm a fuckload of ASD to get them to actually meet up.

        The girls it worked with for me tended to be super independent/adventurous types where they figure they can handle themselves if I turn out to be an ax murderer VS the innocent/shy types who generally wanted more security/trust first. I found there wasn’t really a downside to running the same “turn off the aggressive sexuality” style on both types of girls because it wouldn’t make the adventurous ones flake, so my style evolved into it because it just seemed to be a higher % play (ie – aggressive sexual worked on one type but scared off the other, while turning off the sexual worked on both types) and I generally tend toward stacking odds in my favor.

        Definitely curious to see what happens with this one.


      • @walawala, @yareally

        With this type of game once you have given her a strong insinuation to meet for sex and she didn’t reject you everything after that should be NEUTRAL and based on setting up logistics for the meet. Any ‘gaming’ will be seen as over gaming, and any attempt at rapport will be seen as back-tracking.

        You handled it well. You basically said you’re a man who goes for what he wants, no apologies and no over-gaming

        “She texted saying she may not be feeling well as she’s had a fever this week. Not sure whether that’s just cold-feet fever but it is not out of the realm of possibility she wants to be feeling well.”

        You should be responding day of with something like “Hope you’re feeling well. Still down for that drink later?” or something along those lines with a neutral tone.


      • @YaReally Ok…so when she told me she was suffering from chronic tonsillitis, I replied: “I want my baby to be healthy.” She said she would let me know. “K”. I replied.

        Today I ignore her all day. I get a text: “How ru today?”

        me: standard: “How’s my baby?” followed by am with friends blah blah

        Her: Great just showered, gonna sleep soon.

        Me: CU tomorrow baby. text when you arrive will be in silver suit

        her: may arrive around 7:30. Seriously? ur joking

        Me; 7;30 location location logistics

        her: I mean silver suit

        Me: Surprise me baby. you’ll see. What’s my baby wearing?

        Her: one piece black dress.

        Me: We’ll chill babe

        Note how I’ve amped up the fantasy here assuming the sale.

        I have used this game on a few girls I’ve met online here. Banged EVERY one of them with this.

        This sexualizing the interaction, then building up a little fantasy world. Then assuming the sale. She’s now following because I’ve assumed the sale. At no point have I suggested we wait or asked her how she’s feeling.

        She already told me how she wants to be banged: older dude who desires her and fucks her like a rag doll. No beta shit here. The “how’s my baby?” stuff is how she wants to be addressed by an older dude because guys her age are afraid. The biggest shit test is the one I wrote above.

        I’ve been experimenting with this one pushing the sexual envelope. It’s going smoothly. Will report on how this unfolds tomorrow when we meet.


      • @ walawala

        “I’ve had HUGE success rate with this. In fact the last time I had a similar experience.”

        you say that but from what i’ve read of your other posts, you are having a lot of girls flake on you and those who you do hook up with aren’t sticking around for long.

        you need to listen to the guys that say you’re oversexualizing and not adding enough comfort/rapport. it comes across a little too much like sleazy douchbag or like a needy bitch in heat. that is going to scare most girls off.

        like trav777 said…”oversexualization is NOT GONNA WORK except with absolute hoez!”

        he is right. the girls who are responding to your oversexualization/lack of comfort/rapport (bondage babe for example) are in only for the sex anyway so they don’t care about that stuff.

        regular girls are going to need a better balance of sexualization and non-sexual interaction.

        not knocking your efforts or anything. i think you’re doing great. you just need to work on relaxing a bit more and toning down the aloof, sex machine act. there is a time and a place for that definitely but you can go overboard with this stuff. i’ve done it for sure. out of fear that i would come across as weak and beta. just remember that it’s all about balance.


      • @Trav/Blart

        You write:

        “”regular girls are going to need a better balance of sexualization and non-sexual interaction.””

        Your comments are worth a post itself. I have had problems with OVER-gaming and have since toned it down. My flake rate is quite low now because I do make sure the girls I’m meeting are 1) interested in meeting 2) understand I’m not there to chit chat and be provider chump.

        After a 9 month rocky relationship with a manipulative angry cunt who to this day has nothing nice to say to me..I’ve just banged my 12th hot girl this year—who wants an older dude to bang her brains out. She told me least 10 times while I was banging her. If you met her, you’d think she was UN-gameable: cool, detatched, slightly shy. Yet the minute I met her I kissed her, escalated, kino, she was holding my hand, stroking my face, I was smelling her hair. No one had ever done that with her.

        Her: “Those guys keep staring at us.”

        Me: “They’re jealous”…

        Things have never been better. I have been posting my ups and downs so your comments offer good insights.

        I’m having HUGE success. I’m also more clear in my mind about what I want and don’t want.

        But it’s not always “over-sexualizing” that prompts girls to leave. Sometimes they just leave. The last girl I was seeing was the 23 year old. We went out for 4 months. Then just out of the blue she disappeared, said we were getting “too close”. Too much comfort? Don’t think so. Too much sexualizing? Not really. I felt both were in balance. She left because she had her own issues.

        The girls I’m banging aren’t “hoez”. They are all regular girls. What I’m finding is that when I DONT sexualize things go downhill FAST. I’m just like every other guy.

        The one I banged last night is funky. She’s got a cool tattoo, knows movies, art, she’s not a typical “local Chinese girl”. So the whole sexualizing for her is adding a dimension to her life that didnt’ exist.

        My calibration is getting better. My flake rate is lower. By sexualizing early on I’m able spark attraction and weed out time-wasters.

        ALL girls are sexual. It’s like a kind of secret code. Once you know how to break it, you enter into a whole new world.

        But to Sentient’s point. Yes, drama comes with it. These girls tend to be very emotional after they get banged.

        I spent a lot of today sending comfort texts to the one I banged tonight. She just wanted to know I was texting back.

        Her: “I didn’t eat lunch today”

        me: Am giving a luncheon speech.

        Her: It’s so cold today

        Me: The smell of your perfume is on my pillow.

        Two examples from today.


    • She: “I’m super turned on by mature n confident guys like you, who wanted younger woman badly n wil hv sex with me like never hv sex before.”

      He: Heard that before. Meh.

      Make her qualify herself by walking the talk.


      • After the last text, go silent until she begs for a meetup.


      • @YaReally Kant et al Update. So we met tonight at a nice bar with a great view near my home. She texted she’d be late so I waited until going up. She texted she was there. I went. She was at the bar, it’s dark, huge harbor view. She is in black, slim, tall, shorter hair in a very feminine style…black stockings and black high-heel boots. I’m in a silver suit and black leather jacket.

        This is both our fantasies come to life. I grab her whisper her name in a low hushed tone in her ear. We order drinks. We play the questions game. I’m leaning back, we’re holding hands, she’s well up for it….it’s just getting her comfortable. She doesn’t like that I kiss her—and people watch. I laugh: “they’re jealous” I say. She has black silk stockings on. There’s a garter pattern—-which I take her home and get her clothes off…this garter pattern actually turns out to be a garter tattoo around her leg. Wow….

        I get her asking me questions, she reveals the actress she most identifies with is the one in Mullholland Drive—weird reference for a 27 year old. But she’s a bit….edgy in a very feminine elegant way. her make up is perfect, he hair is very sexy and stylish. She’s an 8…

        So after that I run the Cube on her. Girls love this and if you do it right it reveals a lot about her character. She revealed herself to be very emotional and seeing something solid. I filed that away, it would be important later.

        So after 2 drinks I suggested we leave and go to my place for some tea. She said ok. We go back. I kiss her. I mix a drink. She’s interested in my paintings. We start making out. I am taking it slow…’s amping up the tension. Long story short. I banged her. She suddenly started crying after that. I asked what was wrong. She kept sobbing. I got up, got a tissue, held her. Point was: she revealed in the Cube she’s emotional. Whatever it was, it wasn’t enough for her to get her clothes on and leave.

        The storm passed. I banged her 3 more times. She then opened up asking me fuck her harder. We fucked in the mirror, she was talking dirty.

        So… those wondering how this all worked. A few things: online game has to be sexualized quickly and I do have a routine opener that works.

        Secondly, if the girl is expressing an interest early in banging, it’s not “flirting”—I’ve seen this before…you have to amp it up and then back off just when it becomes annoying.

        Thirdly, don’t be afraid. She was waffling. I assumed the sale. When she agreed to meet up, I knew I was on. I didn’t have to sexualize anything after that.

        This was a page out of Krauser’s “long game” in his book. We’re meeting up again Sunday for dinner and we will bang then.


      • You gave her her fantasy. Fantasy Sex Game. Now come up with another fantasy. She likes emotional rides. Drama.


      • Wala likes the drama too… It’s all good. Props for you being you and your game going just as planned.


    • On @walawala’s interaction, I am surprise no one has the answer that seems so obvious to me. (If I am wrong, its back to the drawing board, when I get time.) For the quick answer, go to end of this comment.

      I had a 3-day divorcee signed, sealed and delivered. Her grinding was amazing. She put my hot dog in her buns and shook as much as she could w/o shacking it out. So she says to me something like: “I don’t even know you that well to drive me home.” I never brought up driving her home. Up to that point I had done everything right, but my old programming raised its ugly head. I treated her like an adult (like an equal). I said something like: “You’re an adult. You can make that decision.” Totally changed from that point on. Her beta-quasi-homo-co-worker became a white knight cockblocker and I must presume her instincts welcomed it with subtle body language.

      There is a reason why “Want to see my record collection?” works. Women are afraid of responsibility. Its like they want to keep the regret rape ace. I would suggest reassurance with plausible deniability of intent rather than direct to-the-issue comfort. Don’t say something that translates to “I’ll fuck you with total respect.” Leave the fucking out of it!, but that is what its about (in this type of situation, which may or may not be walawala’s, but I think is).

      Be the fucking man and lead, conquer. She is programmed to not put herself on a platter, especially the first time.

      Her: “I feel this is wrong”
      Me: “No you don’t.”
      Her: “Yes, I do.”
      Me: “U think 2 good 2b true.”
      Her: “Is it?”
      Me: “I will always respect you.

      If you need more mind lube, tell her that going after what her heart (vag tingles) wants is not for the jealous world to judge, etc. It is you and her against the selfish world keeping her down. lol

      Women expect the superlative power (and if your dick goes in her and she is passionate, that’s you, homie) to guarantee her safety. When she probes for the close guarantee, give it with tact and close, IMO. If someone thinks I’m wrong, convince me your idea is better and I’ll adopt it.

      The text convo got long because the mind lube was not delivered. George Clooney would always give ex-gfs a prize package for leaving. Ever woman trusted to be his next gf. He never (as far as I know) put a sex partner’s social rank in jeopardy. Hell, they think they are worth more for having fucked GC. lmao


      • “I don’t even know you that well to drive me home.”

        This means “How do we get rid of Dumbass? I rode with him and need a plausible excuse to leave without him.”

        Just relocate her to another bar. She’ll tell Dumbass the next day at work that you all went to another bar and she took a taxi home.


      • @theasdgamer That makes perfect sense. Thx.


  22. And … my last two comments have disappeared in moderation. BV out.


  23. Excellent article by Roosh about how RSD epically failed against the SJW mob and is toast as a company:

    As he pointed out: “RSD is paying a huge financial price for their mistakes.”

    I mean, look at this. The controversy is blowing up on a daily basis, there’s literally no end to it. Article after article are destroying RSD. Will there be hate mobs outside every nightclub across the world protesting them? I think it’s safe to bet that with this kind of attention on the rise all RSD students and instructors will be in danger:

    God, the mounting insanity!! Julien is probably hiding in a cave somewhere, crying himself to sleep. He said in the CNN interview that he doesn’t know where his career will go from here, if he’ll even keep teaching…he’s banned from every country in the world and has probably left RSD. All his tour dates were taken off the website which means they’ve all been cancelled that wasn’t just to hide them from the SJWs. I mean, we’ll probably never see him post another video again like he did a couple days ago on RSD’s front page:

    On top of that ALL OF RSD’S instructors have quit! They’ve all been thrown under the bus and lost faith in Tyler and everyone has bailed on the sinking ship. RSD is OVER without it’s instructors. Papa (Nick Kho from #takedownjulienblanc fame) has confirmed that all RSD instructors have quit:

    Papa: “All Instructors are still here, including Alex who is teaching bootcamps every weekend and he is creating new videos as well and has plans to continue to post on RSD nation as well as every other Instructor including Tyler, Brad, Alex, Julien, Max, Jeffy, Ozzie, and Todd.”

    How are they ever going to get new customers without their instructors?? And the negative exposure doesn’t stop…I mean just LOOK at the #takedownjulienblanc hashtag, increasing DAILY in hate:

    Wow!! It’s out of control! And if you look at it:

    You can see that most of the posts on it are directly hating Julien from millions of unique Twitter accounts. It’s not just a handful of the same like 5 posters spamming it, with half their posts having nothing to even do with Julien.

    Can’t believe how Tyler handled this. All the RVF forum members (hi guise!) made it clear what an idiot he is, thinking the news has about a 10 day “give a fuck” cycle before things return to business as usual but that’s CLEARLY not the case…it was at LEAST 14 days.

    Plus this has all MASSIVELY affected their customer base. Most of their fans were so aghast at how Tyler handled things that they deleted their accounts. As you can see, before this incident their forum had:

    720 users, 13387 guests. And now??

    A paltry 870 users, and 16955 guests.

    …Sure, those second numbers LOOK bigger at first, but that’s just because you don’t understand how numbers work. You just don’t understand marketing or success. Here’s a totally random example of what good numbers look like:

    See, this completely random forum has 654 users active, and 579 guests. You might think if you made your living off game and had lower numbers you would be bitter at other people’s success and want to try to take them down with articles on your blog that exaggerate flaws and are based on a lack of research, but that’s just ’cause you guys don’t understand marketing.

    I think the worst hit to all this is their videos, because that’s what went viral. That’s where the REAL damage is, millions of dollars and customers lost:

    As you can see, Julien has a massive 27,716 subscribers and his videos have numbers like 15k, 11k, 14k, with a few standout 25k and like one 40k. But look at all the damage this exposure has done:

    Wow, brutal, now he’s got a mere 47,051 subscribers, that’s pracitcally DOUBLE the failure…and his videos? 44k views, 56k, 36k, 57k, 68k, and a few standout 190k, 170k videos. As we discussed before, higher numbers are actually BAD. Lower numbers are better.

    As you can see from this completely random YouTube channel, this is what proper success should look like:

    Now you can see what success looks like. 9,737 subscribers is better than 47,000 because of the way numbers work. And video views, 4k, 7k, 11k, 10k, and a few standouts at whopping 41k, 39k (when piggybacking off other people’s names like Laci Green and Tucker Max…kind of like writing articles hating on RSD). See, when you’re selling a quality product, you don’t need as many views or subscribers…ask any hipster and they’ll tell you, the better a band is the less people know about it. THAT is marketing strategy.

    Like Roosh mentions in his fantastic well-researched article:

    “They teach men to not socially calibrate, to ignore a woman’s responses in favor of “plowing” (even in the face of clear disinterest)”

    You can see examples of Julien telling men specifically not to calibrate here:

    An here’s bootcamp footage of Julien teaching men to just aggressively jump on women on the street, instead of running casual indirect game like Roosh will teach you to do:

    “Are you from miami, or no?” “Where would a chap go to buy some socks?” Holy crap!! Totally uncalibrated, this type of hardcore direct game is going to get banned for SURE!! Everyone buy Roosh’s book instead! You aren’t prepared to ask a girl if she’s from around here…that’s basically rape.

    AS Roosh says in his stellar article: “This school of game could now land a man in jail”

    It’s good that Roosh spotted that, because otherwise it would look like he’s either just running around like a headless chicken like the SJWs or so desperate and kind of sad that he has to shit on other people to promote his own business which is definitely the action of a high-value alpha male.

    Like Roosh says in his incredible article:

    “RSD is a great example of what happens when you develop in an echo chamber outside of the real world.”

    The worst thing in the world would be becoming an echo chamber like the SJWs. Just make sure to follow Roosh’s lead:

    See how instead of debating actual points with someone who points out flaws in his thinking, he immediately writes them off as shills. You can see more examples of this in the comment section at Jezebel, where anyone who brings up anything that goes against their feminist groupthink is automatically labelled a “fedora-wearing MRA troll”. THAT is how you debate things when you’re a real man…your observations and statements hold up to scrutiny and debate SO obviously that you don’t actually need to discuss them, you can just shut down anyone who doesn’t agree with your hugbox–oops I mean your solid discussion section.

    Thank god Roosh brought his blog back with that article. That was worth the wait. I wouldn’t want to see him write about actual game or anything. Clickbait and slandering other companies is definitely the way to get popular, every high-school girl knows THAT duh. I mean, RSD doesn’t shit on other pickup companies, because they trust in their own product and like to spread good value, but we’ve all seen how they’re about to shut down.

    I wonder if they’ll close RSD this week or wait till the constant SJW attacks outside all the bars they’re banned from get to be too much to handle.

    Personally I feel bad for the SJWs…as Roosh explains in his article, if they come after him they’re in trouble:

    “RSD inflicted not one unit of pain upon its enemies, but this won’t be said if the mob turns to my direction.”

    Good thing for the SJW’s safety that no one gives enough of a fuck for them to attack him and feel his vengeance. Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to go announce that RSD is shutting down because I am obviously Tyler and we’ve taken far too big a financial hit from this whole controversy to continue. 😦

    (P.S. I recommend Day Bang, because I don’t sell pickup products so I’m free to recommend what I think is quality work that will help men instead of trying to turn them away from useful information to appease my butthurt ego and boost my business)

    (P.P.S. If anyone wants to link this on the RVF forum (I recommend this particular homoerotic circle-jerk lol: ) or the comment section of Roosh’s article, please do, I would but he’d obviously delete and ban me lol)


    • wat


    • I suppose Roosh panicked. If it becomes obvious that RSD was not really damaged by this, we may see Roosh post an article about how RSD successfully shrugged off the SJWs.

      Another point: RSD is geared more toward extroverts, whereas Roosh’s tips are more for introverts. They appeal to different niche groups. I’m not sure that either outfit quite realizes this.

      [CH: if that’s an accurate summary of the schools of thought dividing RSD from Roosh, then you could safely say that Roosh’s *potential* audience is much larger than RSD’s, for the simple reason that the majority of (white) men are introverts. I believe you can confirm this by looking up personality studies with large sample sizes.]


    • In summary, I think this is more or less RSD’s situation.


    • Great comment, though I think the political and legal are more relative in two-year time frame. My two cents without using massive space in CH comments:


    • Really if you really want to be an entrepreneur you need to watch how terrible handles the aftermath of this disaster…if he is as good as I think he is he will take his tax write off and reinvent rsd into something much stronger…puas play chess not checkers…


    • …or maybe this is karma fucking td over for fucking mystery…


    • What it all boils down to is if the training works or not…roosh CNN the new York Times your mom whoever can say what they want but if it works for me…I’m in like Flynn…


  24. Shame? Wtf?

    At that point he should have phoned her.


  25. As some readers have wisely pointed out, his negs came across as beta, strongly hinting at the idea that there is something like beta negs ( an oxymoron that actually exists, if there ever was one). This should prompt the writer of CH to draw up a neat post about examples of beta negs and/or other instances of PUA staples being run with a beta spin, effectively defeating the purpose of game.


  26. Shameless self-promotion: If anyone needs help overcoming Oneitis, check out my post “Falling in love.”


  27. She’s dtf catch her on a good day


  28. IMO great from start, but in the end he gave out more than 2/3. Too much cockiness in reply to short messages. No diss though , it was nice run.