Go To Speed Dating Events Where The Women Rotate

Speed dating sucks, but if you’re set on attending speed dating events make sure you know beforehand that the women will be the ones rotating from table to table. Science explains to us why this is so:

The researchers found that the speed daters who approached their partners relative to those who stayed sitting would experience a greater romantic desire and chemistry toward their partners, and were more likely to respond “Yes, I would see this person again” to their partners. In other words, the people who rotated from person to person were less selective than those sitting, regardless of which gender was doing the rotating.

When men rotated, women (the ones sitting) were more selective. But when women did the rotating, men (the ones sitting) were more selective. Nothing else changed in the experiment, so it was the act of doing the approaching (or being approached) that helped determine a person’s selectivity toward their partner.

The researchers go on to tentatively, yet giddily, conclude that “gender norms” and “subtle institutional gender bias”, such as that exhibited at professional speed dating events where the procedure is to always have the men rotate, could account for why reams of past research has shown that women are more selective at dating.

“Although Western civilization has become increasingly egalitarian over the past century, certain social institutions remain gendered, some in subtle, almost invisible, ways. The present research identified powerful consequences of a particularly subtle gender bias: the near-universal tendency to have men rotate and women sit at heterosexual speed-dating events. […]

“Speed-dating scholars have appropriately adopted many procedures from professional speed-dating companies, so it is not surprising that this gendered norm [men rotating] has largely persisted, even for events organized and hosted by scholars. The present results, however, present a cautionary note: Even subtle gender norms can have important consequences for romantic dynamics.

Indeed, when researchers adopt a procedure without controlling for it, they risk missing a component of what they study. In this case, researchers just assumed that since men rotate in real-life, they should do so in speed-dating experiments. This may have skewed the results of past studies that used this speed-dating procedure, especially those that examined women’s “selectivity” — selectivity that may have been a result of the procedure itself, not the women.”

Maxim #81: Whenever you hear or read the words “gender”, “gendered”, “gendered norm”, “subtle gender bias”, or “increasingly egalitarian, yet there remains…” know that you are dealing with a leftwing equalist, blank-slate believing fruitcake who cannot deal with the fact that men and women are biologically different from birth.

So does the study really demonstrate that women are not as selective about dating as was previously believed by all of humanity for the past thousands of years? Eh, ya gotta read the disclaimers:

“What implications do the present findings have for the extensive literature demonstrating that women are more selective than men when choosing mates? On the one hand, this sex difference did not significantly reverse at events where women rotated, so on average there was at least an overall trend in the present data for men to experience greater romantic approach (i.e., to be less selective) than women.”

Answer: No. But thanks for playing!

I’ll explain what is going on here. One, the fruitcup researchers want desperately to cast doubt, however threadbare, on the burgeoning scientific and cultural acceptance of the important role played by biological determinism. They are emotionally invested in inflating and slanting the data to conform to their worldview. Scientists, particularly those in the soft girly sciences, are not immune from emotional bias. This is why I believe the time has come to shove it back in their faces and institute affirmative action and quotas in universities and social science departments to force them to hire academics with a realist bent. Diversity will be their strength, by force of law.

Two, while the reversed rotating speed dating study doesn’t do anything to overturn the extensive research showing that women are the more sexually selective sex, it does highlight an important concept of game that men should be aware of: namely, the principle of perceived higher value. Men who remain seated at speed dating events while the women bounce from man to man are essentially boosting their alpha male status. As any man who’s lived a day knows, when a girl approaches you either directly or indirectly (via a proximity indicator of interest) she will perceive you to have higher status than if she were the one being approached. The facts of your actual status are irrelevant. Perception is reality, so if certain body movements and positionings cause a girl to perceive you have higher status than her, she will be more open to a romantic tryst with you.

The researchers misjudged the rotating speed dating women’s universally shared desire for higher status males as lowered selectivity. The women weren’t being less selective; they were being just as selective as they always are, except now there were more higher status (i.e. seated) males for them to choose from. If anything, this study demonstrates that more men learning game will not result in women adopting stronger selection filters for men with only the tightest game. I have said before that more men running game is analogous to more women with beautiful faces — both will increase the total number of gina tingles and boners, respectively, at least until enough millennia have passed for new evolved preferences to emerge. Game, like beauty, exerts a power over the opposite sex too primal to be denied.

This principle of perceived higher value doesn’t work in the reverse: A woman’s value is almost entirely a function of her looks and the fact that she has a vagina, so there is little a woman can do, outside of makeup and good lighting, to alter a man’s perception of her beauty. Truly desperate ugly girls could slip a vision impairing drug into his drink, maybe a funhouse mirror drug that causes him to think she looks like Katy Perry.

Besides teaching men that they should refuse to get off their seat at speed dating events, this study helps confirm some other valuable body language power moves I’ve written about, like the forearm grab and the importance of keeping your back to the bar. I’d further suggest learning the “finger curl come hither”. Curl your finger and motion for her to come to you; the power dynamic will be all in your favor. As D likes to say, in an affected haughty French accent: “Zay come to ME!”

Women will often test men for their commitment to their repertoire of alpha power moves. How many times have you talked to a girl across a small distance in a loud room and she motioned for you to come closer to her? Beta bait. Alphas never bite; they respond “No, you come here.” Subtle, not so subtle? Douchey? Who cares, the shit works to light up a woman’s loins.





Comments


  1. Speed dating events are great places to scrape the bottom of the barrel for hookups. Speed dating is also very contrived, and very emasculating. Ditto with ‘singles events’.

    You can do better.

    Like


  2. Speed-dating may be a place for the weakest to practice the effectiveness of their game.

    Like


  3. on September 30, 2009 at 2:11 pm Keep a Movin' Dan

    How big is this effect? If it’s a 5% change in success rate, it confirms PUA wisdom and could be powerful when combined with a dozen other similar-sized effects, but not worth basing a decision to go speed dating off of.

    If you’re thinking about speed dating, the price and whether there are strictly-enforced age brackets should be more important in your decision than who rotates.

    Like


  4. Here is another discussion of the study:

    http://www.bioedonline.org/news/news.cfm?art=5337

    “When men rotated, men said yes 50% of the time and women said yes 43% of the time. However, when women rotated, the trend for higher female selectivity vanished, with men saying yes 43% of the time while women said yes 45% of the time.”

    Women are 2 percentage points less choosier when the move around, and men are 7 percentage points less choosier when they move around. It apparently makes a 2+ times bigger difference to men than to women.

    This probably could be explained under the theory that mate choices are a bigger deal to women than to men so women are less likely to be influenced by trivial shit. Alternately, men may feel that they have the upper hand or are more confident when women come to them so they are more likely to say yes. Who knows. But it really doesn’t affect the women that much.

    Like


  5. My idea of speed dating is a strip club. I sit on my ass while they do the rotating.

    Like


  6. posted on other board:

    Question guys:

    Seeing a girl who has offered to buy me a power drill (which I desire and need) for a housewarming gift.

    She is on unemployment and does not have daddy paying for things or money saved (i.e. she is truly poor), but wants to buy her man the drill he wants regardless of price.

    The one I trule need and desire and is best is about $200. The decent one, which will do the jobs ok but isn’t the one I want, is $100.

    She has asked me to tell her which drill I want. Which do I tell her? There is no question she will buy it for me, no matter what price.

    Like


  7. I misread that. Men are choosier when the women come to them. [insert bullshit explanation here]

    Like


  8. btw, riff dog, excellent post.

    Like


  9. @Riff Dog
    My idea of speed dating is a strip club. I sit on my ass while they do the rotating.

    Tom Leykis said dating=porking. If ‘speed dating’ meant ‘speed fucking’ I might be game. Not the ‘nametag on chest, introduce yourself to the other person in 2 minutes then rotate to next person in room’ bullshit.

    Like


  10. Hey Rapist,

    Do you do anything well aside from blogging about being an alpha male player?

    Like


  11. Lurker = LOSER. You should change your name. In fact, when i say “loser”…i am refering to “lurker”.

    That loser bitch hasnt seen pussy since he came out of his mother’s snatch.

    Like


  12. I halfway agree, but I think it’s more like this. The person who is seated gets more comfortable, more sleepy, and is therefore closer to the default behavior for their gender. For men, that is: “yes” if attractive, “no” if not; the only deviations that occur are if the person is dumb or has a bad personality. For women, that is “reject all but the 1-2 who make a strong impression”.

    It makes sense, then, that when women sit, they reject more men. They’re not as energetic, so it takes a stronger throw to establish yourself as different from the stream of mediocre, rejected men they’ve seen. When men sit, they are probably much more “physical” in their selection process.

    Also, the high acceptance rates quoted for women in speed-dating studies do not apply to actual, urban speed-dating events. The real numbers are lower (especially if you factor out people– mostly women– who check “yes” for people they have no intention of dating, in order to see who picked them). In part, this is due to the awkwardness involved in checking off a card when other people are around. Many check only the 1-2 men who made a strong impression, others check off everyone to see who picks them (but don’t return calls except to 1-2), but I think, on average, that women are much more selective than ~40% in “real” speed dating events where there a lot of people.

    Like


  13. “…at heterosexual speed-dating events…”

    So what do they do at the homosexual speed dating events? Bull dykes and bears rotate, lipstick lesbians and power bottoms sit?

    Like


  14. This reminds me of the time when i was with a set and one of the potential targets (hadn’t made my mind yet) was dancing around with some of the others and some guys while I sat at a bar stool (back to bar) surveying the situation and chatting up another girl. I told her I would teach her how to dance (the music was salsa). I danced a bit and then went back to my seat. Later, she insisted she wanted to teach me some moves and tried to lead the dancing. I refused to be led by a woman, told her it’s unnatural. She called me a chauvinist, but after that move became more interested in me.

    Like


  15. I will wager that teh academics will NEVER figure this out – it goes against tehir dogma, and thus they will not see the truth no matter how much research pints to it.

    Like


  16. on September 30, 2009 at 2:57 pm The Fifth Horseman

    The worst thing about Speed Dating is not that men are the ones who rotate, but rather that men have to be with women in the same age group.

    So if there are 25-34, 35-44, and 45-54 age groups, a man of 47 still has to rotate with women in the 45-54 age group, rather than in the 35-44 (or even the 25-34) age group.

    That is unnatural enforcement of PC beliefs.

    The reason I don’t think men rotating, while undesirable, is a dealbreaker, is that within MM and Roosh’s books and every other instructor of daygame, the man has to do cold approaches. That is the life blood of Game. So a man doing the approach is the reality even within Game.

    Like


  17. Biting Beaver: laughable idiot or hilarious mock-troll?

    Like


  18. Fifth Horseman: most NYC speed dating events have the female ages shifted 2-3 years younger, and the age limits aren’t strictly enforced in most places.

    Like


  19. Hey Biting Beaver… the other day I watched a couple of guys strenuously push a couch through a narrow door… the door resisted, creaked, I think some moulding broke off. But to their great relief and satisfaction, this team of sweaty, burly men successfully forced the couch through this door.

    What does this say about men in general?

    Like


  20. I’m going speed dating on Friday…I’m going to be very selective….

    Like


  21. Loser…er…lurker. You are dumber than a sack of wet rats.

    all the alpha cred in the world cannot wash away the stain of a loser from you. Like a bad armpit odor. You know this deep down. Your father told you this too. It is just that being a loser sticks to you like a greasy, brown shit stain on a homeless dog’s nose.

    Like


  22. I will cut you!

    Like


  23. That is a homoerotic sublimation of rape.

    No, it was a front door. Does this change your feelings?

    Like


  24. ” Women would have find a more diplomatic way of getting that through, rather than force…force…penetrate the resistance.”

    Such gentility, from a carnivorous cunt.

    Like


  25. the above was me.

    Like


  26. that I would rather never get laid than go through with it.

    That’s your choice. Some people don’t find self-improvement – of any type – to be mental anguish and still more would willingly sacrifice a couple months of mental anguish for success with women.

    But the change is possible. Belie’dat!

    Like


  27. abe: “trying to fool women into thinking that I’m someone like my brother entails so much mental anguish that I would rather never get laid than go through with it.”

    Self improvement is always scary, brother. Let me do you a favor: go read Steven Pressfield’s little work of Genius, “War of Art.” Apply that kind of thinking to your life, and you can do anything that it is possible for a man to do. That little voice saying, “I can’t” is killing you inside. First time my chicken chested self stepped foot in a gym, I had that little voice in my head. Now I look like a hero (well, within my genetic limitations anyway); because I didn’t listen to the devil telling me I couldn’t do it.

    Here’s my book review for inspiration:
    http://lupoleboucher.livejournal.com/42675.html

    Like


  28. scenebythebrook said:

    “aren’t the betas who hang out around here hoping to find knowledge to exploit blank-slatists themselves too?

    There are some Alphas on here too, helpin’ the Betas out

    “Isn’t it true that game/pua can benefit at most the fraction of men who can be deemed “alpha”?”

    Game is for everyone but naturals. You are not born Beta, you are made Beta by your parents, friends, lovers, and the vagina-media complex. Game can help you move from a Beta to a lower Alpha, with time.

    “For instance, a woman with an ugly face who fails to excite any male might come to understand that she is unattractive — but that understanding doesn’t put her in that better of a position in regards to getting men. It can only lead her to accept her status.”

    It’s not all about looks. Game is partly about improving your looks, but mostly about avoiding common mistakes.

    “She broke up with me. I wasn’t saddened at all, because I knew that my utterly beta, desperate behavior turned her off.”

    It takes a long to go up the ladder. Game can also fuck you up if you think about it too much while gaming. Michael Jordan shot 1000 free throws a day in practise. How much have you done?

    “Years ago I remember mentioning to my older brother an observation about gender dynamics. He acted like a light was going off in his head, as if the thought never occurred to him before. ”

    Naturals cannot articulate game, the same way most sports stars aren’t good coaches. Observe naturals, but don’t ask them questions.

    “But what if you aren’t funny? What if you find it hard to act dominant? What if you aren’t quick enough to pass those shit tests?” My brother manages to do all of these things *without* calculation. ”

    It’s not easy. It takes experimentation, failure, and patience. Your main gains will come from avoiding common mistakes (like calling too often etc). If you can avoid 75% of the common mistakes, you are better than most men.

    Like


  29. “So if there are 25-34, 35-44, and 45-54 age groups, a man of 47 still has to rotate with women in the 45-54 age group, rather than in the 35-44 (or even the 25-34) age group. ”

    That’s unfortunate, but I guess it makes sense. A more realistic grouping would be (1) women between 20 and 30 + men between 25 and 35; (2) women between 30 and 40 + men between 35 and 45; and (3) women between 40 and 50 + men between 45 and 55.

    Of course if they really did that, no women from the 20-25 group would show up so there would be a surplus of men chasing younger women. And women between 50 and 55 would be pissed off at being excluded. So it would mirror peoples’ frustrations in real life.

    Like


  30. On the balls. In other news, ex-wives are angry over paying alimony:

    http://www.abcnews.go.com/Business/role-reversal-wives-angry-paying-alimony/story?id=8662940

    Like


  31. In further news that supports the everyday reality of game…

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17619-its-true-all-the-taken-men-are-best.html

    In brief, women find that married or attached men are perceived as more attractive than single, unattached men. Men, on the other hand, are unfazed either way by a woman’s status. It’s a demonstration of social proof–and that women are more easily manipulated by it than men.

    Gasp! Who would’ve thought!?!

    Like


  32. CH is right on with the come hither gesture. Then say this: “I just wanted to make you cum with one finger.”

    Like


  33. Damn. Made a typo. In my summary of the academic article, it should read…

    1. Both men and women are MORE selective when they’re seated than when they’re rotating.

    Like


  34. on September 30, 2009 at 5:00 pm gunslingergregi

    She needs to put that ass on the corner and also be buying you some tennis shoes.

    j/k

    Like


  35. the reality of the alpha makes betas want to cry, just like abe above.

    the beta-establishment around gives wonderful suggestions like “read XXX book”

    nothing motivates a beta more than seeing some ridiculous guy with a hot girl. hint: ridiculous guys won´t be with hot girl in both the poshest nightclubs and also in the ghetto/slum parties where thugs rule.

    Like


  36. on September 30, 2009 at 3:02 pm 54-Year-Old-Virgin

    ha ha!As CH said,when you see a fuckwad of a word like “gendered” you know you’re dealing with “eejits”. What is this stuff with not wanting to say the word”sex”? Its gotta be that stupid “gender”. I blame the female sex,er,I mean gender! :0

    Like


  37. PA,

    That is a homoerotic sublimation of rape. Expressed psychosomatically. You should know better. Women would have find a more diplomatic way of getting that through, rather than force…force…penetrate the resistance.

    What are you doing enjoying the sight of ripped, masculine, sweaty men working? Are you gay dude? Or was that just a dream you had about clones of CH?

    Like


  38. on September 30, 2009 at 5:29 pm Carolus Reconditus

    scenebythebrook,

    You’re clearly in the top percentile, PC-wise.

    But could it be you just don’t have a well-paying job? Women’s ‘paydar’ (as in ‘radar’, ‘gaydar’) competency is well known to the HBD community.

    ‘Beta’ often means little more than: unemployed or underpaid.

    Anecdote: when I switched from a badly paid temp teaching job to an overpaid govt. post my hit rate went up by a couple of hundred percent.

    Like


  39. on September 30, 2009 at 5:39 pm Carolus Reconditus

    El chief, you write:

    Game is for everyone but naturals. You are not born Beta, you are made Beta by your parents, friends, lovers, and the vagina-media complex. Game can help you move from a Beta to a lower Alpha, with time.

    Perhaps you are right. But I wonder is there any longitudinal scientific evidence for this assertion– e.g. case-control tests, one group of males learn game, a similar ‘control’ group remain untrained.

    Wait five years. Then check which group has the greatest aggregate success score (e.g. 7.5 for the gamed, 6 for the ungamed — or vice versa).

    Any ideas about this?

    Like


  40. Gender equality is underrated. I made a highly successful concession to the fairer gender on my blog:

    http://feastethos.blogspot.com/2009/09/wench-wednesday-ash-is-getting-married.html

    You’d be wise to do the same…pig.

    Like


  41. PA,

    Perhaps you are too slow, so let try this again. Your vivid description of a scene of ripped, masculine, well build men, groaning, moaning, pushing something forcibly through a tight door(backdoor?). Is downright homo. Why would any man *enjoy* watching a scene like that if they are not having a homoerotic rape fantasy?

    And if you dreamt of it. That also proves my point: You are having are still homoerotic rape fantasy.

    All the “alpha code ” spinning will not change that. You secretly likes it up the ass dude; hard, rough, very raw, preferably with many men at once as per your vivid description, PA.

    Embrace your inner homo already.

    Like


  42. on September 30, 2009 at 3:54 pm scenebythebrook

    Aren’t the betas who hang out around here hoping to find knowledge to exploit blank-slatists themselves too?

    Anyway, to go somewhat off topic:

    Isn’t it true that game/pua can benefit at most the fraction of men who can be deemed “alpha”? The PUA community seems to offer a promise to betas that can only end in more bitterness on the part of the beta. It tells these men that, by mere will, they can change their nature. But their status as beta is a matter of HBD. It’s a confluence of the Big Five personality traits that makes them fail with women. Sure, a beta can come to understand why he fails with women, but just because we understand ourselves doesn’t mean we can exploit that understanding to somehow alter our selves. For instance, a woman with an ugly face who fails to excite any male might come to understand that she is unattractive — but that understanding doesn’t put her in that better of a position in regards to getting men. It can only lead her to accept her status.

    I say this because I observe my older brother. He’s a natural, and has probably slept with 50 women. He’s 27. I’m 24 and have slept with none. We’re black (Somali, to be specific), and he pulls women of various ethnicities who are all decent looking by virtue of being at the height of their youthful splendor. Yea, the white chicks he pulls aren’t Megan Fox, but right now they’re not so bad.

    About four years ago I started employing what I thought was “game.” The substance of it was that I was striking up conversation with a lot of girls. Oh, it was so awkward and painful, but *one* of them (a slightly chunky — but fairly cute — white chick) ended up liking me. We ended up seeing a movie and getting dinner (I paid for both) but we made out in my car after the movie. I think we were dating two months but making out with her feeling up her boobs (through her clothes) was the farthest I got. She broke up with me. I wasn’t saddened at all, because I knew that my utterly beta, desperate behavior turned her off.

    Years ago I remember mentioning to my older brother an observation about gender dynamics. He acted like a light was going off in his head, as if the thought never occurred to him before. He is someone who managed to score with so many women without ever having given thought to all the PUA theories. Tyler Durden, Mystery, and et al are, in the most important aspect, like my brother. Without that aspect, all their “theories” wouldn’t have gotten them any pussy in the first place.

    Betas (the sort who hang out around the PUA sites) intellectually understand the source of their problems but they don’t have the ability to change. Those who hope to exploit the knowledge to become like Tyler or Mystery are blank-slatists. What are the PUA commands? Stuff like, “Be funny!” “Be dominant!” “Pass those shit tests!!” But what if you aren’t funny? What if you find it hard to act dominant? What if you aren’t quick enough to pass those shit tests?” My brother manages to do all of these things *without* calculation. And trying to fool women into thinking that I’m someone like my brother entails so much mental anguish that I would rather never get laid than go through with it.

    Like


  43. I don’t have a well paying job, but really, nor does my brother, and he manages to rake in so many bangable women. We are the same socio-economically and our successes couldn’t be more different. Regarding the “you were a beta by society” explanation, why was I affected and he wasn’t? All women can mate, but not all men can. I’m afraid I (and along with many other betas) might be these men, the losers of the new sexual order.

    I understand that whenever I get a decent job and become more secure I’ll have more pull, but really, I don’t want to be the target of some aging women looking to settle down. It seems like I will miss out on banging women in their absolute prime, and I won’t have the instinct to keep the ones who would be willing to date me.

    I’m pretty diffident and awkward. I’m not ugly by any means, and several times recently I’ve had decent looking girls randomly strike up conversation with me during which I couldn’t help but think “here is a prime opportunity to apply the PUA tactics you’ve been reading about” but always my shyness overcomes me and I keep making mere pleasant chitchat.

    All of this leads to think that the problem stems from something deeper than mere socialization or lack of will. Naturally, I’m pretty afraid of marriage, not because of Men’s Rights issues (which I have an interest in) but because I will end up being dominated and outwitted by the woman.

    Like


  44. Speed dating (or, speed fucking) is the same applied female dynamic as groupies hunting down stars.

    It’s a myth that ancient harems were staffed with unwilling victims.

    A liberally-slanted media pumping out daily propaganda is leukemia. Biased research (and researchers) posing as objective science is cultural bone cancer.

    Like


  45. Nice job, sifting through the academic bullshit and arriving at the unspoken part of the data. It’s both strange and yet entirely predictable that researchers washed by the academic zeitgeist would not draw attention to the more interesting finding–WHY exactly it is that anchored, seated persons (men or women) show greater selectivity (i.e., less romantic desire). Indeed, I found the pre-print version of the original research paper and this aspect of the result isn’t addressed:

    http://faculty.wcas.northwestern.edu/eli-finkel/documents/RotationMS_FINAL.pdf

    In the article, the authors don’t ever really address the DHV issue. They make mention of a “scarcity hypothesis”–that the daters who are seated have an abundance mentality and so, don’t place as much value on what to them appears plentiful (being repeatedly approached by the opposite sex). But they’re unable to strongly refute this hypothesis and don’t dwell any on other, rival hypotheses.

    Reading the full article, I have to say the authors don’t come across as trying extra hard to support some PC egalitarian message. They don’t come across as pushing a feminist agenda. One should give them a bit of a break there. In sum, what they show is that…

    1. Both men and women are less selective when they’re seated than when they’re rotating.

    2. The controversial element is that when the men were seated and the women were approaching, both men and women were equally selective. They were on par.

    3. But know that seated women were always more selective than seated men. In other words, women are, in general, still the more selective gender. It’s just that when the tables are turned–such as when men are seated in speed-dating situation (or possibly if the man is seated and anchored at a bar?)–the female advantage gets neutralized.

    It’s just a shame they don’t go further and address WHY or HOW this power dynamic shifts or gets neutralized.

    Like


  46. What is this 1995 circa You’ve Got Mail? Who speed dates? Online dating precludes the need for speed dating.

    Like


  47. Lurker – Thanks! It was a fun one to write.

    Now, about that sack of wet rats . . .

    Like


  48. Scene says, “For instance, a woman with an ugly face who fails to excite any male might come to understand that she is unattractive — but that understanding doesn’t put her in that better of a position in regards to getting men. It can only lead her to accept her status.”

    …but that acceptance is a big step, and there’s a lot of power in it. You navigate the world with much more certainty, and get less of your time and emotion wasted by the exploitive or the merely stupid.

    Like


  49. I spent a few days in Sweden about 30 years ago. The place was swarming with young, blue-eyed, blond babes with great figures – and I don’t mean that fake American look, these gals were authentic. No make-up, no ridiculous hair.

    The thing that surprised me was that the first bar I went into was owned by a black American guy. We got talking and he told me he didn’t want to go to ‘Nam so he took up some offer of safe-harbor the Swedish govt had made to American deserters/conscientious objectors. I asked him if he found it hard to live in such a different country, and he just laughed. He said as soon as he set foot in it, all the Swedish gals were over him like a rash, so he felt at home there right away. He married one. Same with his buddies. But for the white guys who made the same move, not so much.

    I got the same story from other people there. The Swedish girls loved these big, different-looking black guys. Wanted them bad. But the foreign white guys didn’t do it for them. (I know what you’re thinking. I doubt it).

    The question was why did white American girls not even see these guys (apart from a few who might notice them sexually), whereas equally affluent, similar gene-pool Swedish girls wanted to marry them and bear their children instinctively?

    On a similar theme, I used to live next to a Korean couple. She was a knock-out, but the husband didn’t seem to notice her. He thought the white girls he saw hanging out at the up-market bar up the road were angels descended from heaven – I would have traded a dozen of them for one like his wife.

    The answer I get answers the success of game as well.

    Like


  50. on September 30, 2009 at 8:54 pm gunslingergregi

    Yes mongo location, location, location really is the key

    Like


  51. on September 30, 2009 at 8:55 pm gunslingergregi

    And of course don’t throw it away just because it is perfect it is ok sometimes in life to have perfection. Takes getting used to though.

    Like


  52. on September 30, 2009 at 8:57 pm gunslingergregi

    We all have to bear our crosses he he he

    When I tell people what my life is like at home they stare at me with drool coming down and think I am kidding.

    Like


  53. does anyone have any good game resources to share? all i want is to learn to pass shit tests and become king alpha. what is a good book? websites?

    Like


  54. The response of the Hollywood establishment to the R. Polanski case is one of the best proofs of the maxim “Just Make Sure to be Alpha” there has ever been.
    The thing is, everybody, male and female, understands instintively why it is right and proper that ripe 13 year old girls should be ram-fucked by elite guys.
    Eventually, the fog will lift.

    Like


  55. Chuck, I’d like to respond to your blog post on healthcare here, if I can—for some reason, my browser is futzing when I try to respond.

    The $40,000 bill is high, but that is the cost to develop those technologies, market them, and train people to save lives with them. And the chances that your friend 1) would need such care and 2) would not have adequate insurance/ funds to cover it at the same time; when combined, make for a strikingly low figure. So low that the price being so high makes sense—how else could it be developed, and marketed, to the select few who need it, without the cost being enough to cover all the work put into it?

    Your claim is akin to complaining that “the high costs of having a successful IPO disincentizes people to create successful corporations.” It costs that much in sweat, management, and product marketing to build a company; the risk is huge, as is the work, but so is the reward.

    Many families in the past faced huge medical bills by their standards, and chances for death were much higher; yet how many poor families had 8-10 kids? tons.

    Like


  56. lurker:

    my point was two-fold. first, the medical care wouldn’t have been necessary if the doctor wouldn’t have delivered the baby 5 weeks early. the only medical care they used was keeping her on a ventilator and a week’s stay at the hospital. there was no specialized medical care. the costs arose (if the story is to be taken as i heard it) because of doctor error.

    now, the main thing is this: i’m not for government meddling it, but for god’s sake, if they’re going to meddle at least do so in the most constructive ways.

    the guys at marginal revolution had a post a few days ago about how the cures for africa’s medical problems are the same today as they were in the 1930s. use mosquito nets, provide good drinking water etc. we’ve thrown billions and billions of dollars at their problems – and at the problems of illegitimate children in this country – to the neglect of a “good” family in our own backyard.

    i know it’s difficult for a large bureacracy to discern between “good” families and not-so-good, and of course we have to be overly PC about all of it; it just irks me that this family is not only getting screwed but *not* getting help that other people get handed to them. it’s not a new problem, but its still frustrating.

    Like


  57. mongo: It’s rarity. Black women are also very highly desired in Scandinavia and Northern Europe, because there are so few of them.

    A white guy needs to move to Japan or Korea to make this work, and the cultural differences are a lot starker there than in Sweden. The upshot of being a white American, in dating, is that almost no one discriminates against you; on the other hand, being in the U.S. majority prevents you from getting “niche” benefits.

    Supply/demand ratios certainly matter. Even obesity would not be so terrible if there weren’t so much of it. In historical times, maybe 1% of women got as fat as 40% are now. However, about 1% of men want to be with very large women. There was a match back then; now that market is flooded 40-to-1.

    The ratio factor is also an issue in high-IQ dating. People generally look to date people with IQs at the average of theirs and 120. You might think 150 would give you “niche” power on account of its rarity, but the people who’d target 150 are around 180, and that’s extremely rare. The women I’ve dated have been 125-140, and each had always been the smarter one in most-to-all of her previous relationships.

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  58. most of the commenters here are missing the point. besides the way that the authors try to make it seem as if men and women are the same, the display of higher value aspect is most intriguing.

    at the extreme then, in a bar or social setting with relatively equal numbers of men and women, all of the men would be best served to stay in one place rather than milling around trying to drum up conversation with others. as he points out, standing with your back to the bar, centrally-located, is the place to be. it provides the advantage of highest visibility from all angles. some animals do this; it’s called a lek.

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  59. Cless: “It’s rarity. Black women are also very highly desired in Scandinavia and Northern Europe, because there are so few of them.”

    Ten out of 10 Cless.

    Isn’t any man who takes Game to heart and transforms himself, also making himself a rarity? He’s presenting as one not like the rest. But without any recognizable defect, like beauty, he becomes exotically attractive. If he had a couple of grand to spare and went to another country where people like him were rarely seen, he would notice exactly the same effect.

    From what I can make of Game so far, I see many familiar principles to another discipline – business. Here’s some basics:

    1) Understand your market
    2) Know and maintain your point of difference
    3) Consciously plan your strategy, with a view to discovering more about what works and what doesn’t. As soon as you know what works, adopt it and as soon as you know what doesn’t, drop it. Repeat.
    4) Be original in planning and bold in execution.
    5) Learn what you can from your competition.
    6) Don’t get emotionally involved with an investment.

    Transfer all the principles of business into a personal context and you have game. Business is, after all, the pursuit of success. So it makes sense that scoring more isn’t the only benefit – it’s adopting the mindset of success that’s really powering this. Women are simply serving as peer-review.

    It’s fitting that the male answer to the feminist’s ‘the personal is political’ may be ‘the personal is business’.

    Like


  60. Is this worth going to?

    Like


  61. Chuck:
    “my point was two-fold. first, the medical care wouldn’t have been necessary if the doctor wouldn’t have delivered the baby 5 weeks early. the only medical care they used was keeping her on a ventilator and a week’s stay at the hospital. there was no specialized medical care. the costs arose (if the story is to be taken as i heard it) because of doctor error.”

    —if true, then they are due for a payday. A lawyer should get them that easy through malpractice. Which takes time, i agree, and is messy; we should have no-fault medical insurance that would pay out a la workman’s comp.

    but a doctor being able to deliver a baby early is specialiaized care—special in the sense it doesn’t happen thta often to the population at large, and is therefore expensive

    “now, the main thing is this: i’m not for government meddling it, but for god’s sake, if they’re going to meddle at least do so in the most constructive ways.
    –agreed.

    “the guys at marginal revolution had a post a few days ago about how the cures for africa’s medical problems are the same today as they were in the 1930s. use mosquito nets, provide good drinking water etc. we’ve thrown billions and billions of dollars at their problems – and at the problems of illegitimate children in this country – to the neglect of a “good” family in our own backyard. ”
    —very true, agreed.

    “i know it’s difficult for a large bureacracy to discern between “good” families and not-so-good, and of course we have to be overly PC about all of it; it just irks me that this family is not only getting screwed but *not* getting help that other people get handed to them. it’s not a new problem, but its still frustrating.”

    —its not that a bureaucracy can’t distinguish; its that we actively incentivize bad choices and do not reward good ones. And the left pushes this by trying to equate “welfare queen” terminology with racism that must be met with more entitlements for single black mothers with 6 kids by 7 guys.

    Like


  62. Masada the girls look like 6s or less. But why not….

    Like


  63. “Masada the girls look like 6s or less. But why not….”

    Yeah, even if some of them are 7s, it reinforces my impression from hitting the clubs where “young professionals” hang out. They are either chubsters or, more frequently, butterfaces.

    My highly unscientific estimate — high IQ (120+) + hot body (0.7 whr) + pretty face (7.5+) is 2 sigma above the mean territory. When you add in a feminine (as opposed to feminist) disposition, that’s 2.5 sigma (i.e. less than 1 in 100.)

    So the road to take for high IQ males – hot meaningless short-term relationships with women IQ 110+.

    Like


  64. The vocal intonation of the guys giving testimonials in that video (and no, I don’t mean the gay host guy… i mean the two dudes explaining why they like it) tells you everything you need to know about why they’re stuck going to crap like that.

    Like


  65. […] tip: Butters. Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Five pithy aphorisms for your weekendOn […]

    Like


  66. Also, on Twitter you have to follow back everyone whom you won’t want to lose. The reason is because the 2000 follow limit forces all winners (alpha male twitterers) to unfollow those who don’t follow back.

    That is one area where you will not be able to say “I am an alpha male and I will let the betas follow me without reciprocation”. You will lose the alpha males by not following back…and not out of spite but because of what I said above: those like me who are popular will not be able to follow more than 2000 without jettisoning the prima donnas who don’t follow back. 😉

    Like


  67. the race thread between mongo and cless alvein beats even the diet tips from Nicole in my ridiculous comments radar

    Like


  68. The reason is because the 2000 follow limit forces all winners (alpha male twitterers)

    I am getting paranoic. Now I can´t even brush my teeth without showing my dominance and masculinity.

    Like


  69. alpha male twitterers

    Wierd phrase of the week. The nerd invasion of PUAsphere is in effect.

    Like


  70. Great article as usual.

    Hey CH – You’re needed on Twitter – And no, not with your current poetic haiku stuff.

    1) Post links to each of your posts as a tweet using a great 80 characters to lure people in.

    2) Use Hashtags such as #sgp which is for Republican females to take notice. 😉 Or go for #tcot for conservatives or #tlot for libertarians. Research what hashtags will get you the type of audience you want to check you out.

    3) Follow 2000 people right now. Follow everyone who mentioned feminism recently for instance. You can do that easily. Try TweetAdder. You will have 1500 relevant followers by next week.

    I am at http://www.twitter.com/VeteransAbroad

    There are about 6 alpha male MRA tweeters on Twitter now.

    Your presence + more of your readers would be appreciated.

    Then we can RT each other to get greater exposure.

    This is like saying something and getting found on Google except in real time, not slow as molasses time.

    Like


  71. “‘Beta’ often means little more than: unemployed or underpaid.” – Carolus Reconditus.

    That’s not nice nor right. If anything Alphas are like African Lions – they sleep all day and night and the Lionesses do all the work. I know of Alphas males where the women are the breadwinners. Sure some Alpha males get to make the big bucks in sports and entertainment but Betas are the backbone of modern economies. Besides males who are unappreciated and don’t get paid much are the Om3gas as they don’t have the ballsack that would get them out of the drudgery of level-entry work. T’is unfortunate when Beta becomes synonymous with Om3ga.

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  72. But their status as beta is a matter of HBD. It’s a confluence of the Big Five personality traits that makes them fail with women. — scenebythebrook

    HBD is very important, much more so than the mainstream would have you think, but it doesn’t control any aspect of your life 100%. And think about it: why would evolution produce increasing numbers of men who can’t attract women?

    Yes, HBD may give you unhelpful traits like being risk-averse or introverted, but you can learn to work around those or even make them work for you. I bet most guys who are tongue-tied little boys when they’re around attractive women have some group they can be relaxed and confident men around: maybe family or a small group of close friends, or the chess club. A lot of guys just need to figure out how to hang onto that attitude when they deal with women.

    A guy at one of DeAngelo’s seminars said he completely understands how to be alpha when he’s doing sales at his job, but he couldn’t seem to apply it to women. Was he a natural alpha at one thing and a beta at another? No, he’d just been taught a lot of nonsense about the male-female dynamic until it stuck.

    Like


  73. Masada inquired

    Is this worth going to?

    meh, why not.
    It worked out for
    KassyK

    Like


  74. And another thing: In European Connections vs Gonzales in federal court, the Tahirih Justice Center got the judge to rule in favor of IMBRA by saying that older men who date much younger women are more likely to be the violent controlling type. This happened despite the fact that the document they used said the exact opposite! It didn’t matter what the document said, it mattered that the lawyers interpreted the document their way, the men’s lawyer said nothing and the judge repeated the bogus interpretation.

    Thus, even if you mistakenly think along the paradigm that an alpha male doesn’t *have* to go to Russia to date hot chicks (many men go to Russia to do even better than they are already doing in the US) you can’t just sit on your butt while the Judiciary Branch becomes the 4th leg of the complete takeover of the US govt (Bar Association is one of the legs).

    It has now been established as precedent in US federal court that men who date younger women need to be regulated because, despite 1000 spousal murders per year in the US, 4 foreign brides were killed over 15 years and the repetition of their anecdotes was all that was needed by the older women who now control government.

    The judge and the DA and TJC all agreed that all online dating sites can be regulated when Congress deems that “necessary”. See more at OnlineDatingRights.com on that issue.

    But keep on talking about evolutionary psychology if that makes you feel empowered.

    Like


  75. By the way, I agree with CH’s original point about leftist researchers. I was having a debate a few weeks ago with some idiot who demanded scholarly evidence for the proposition that aging hurts a woman’s attractiveness more than a man’s.

    I did a couple searches and found the following abstract:

    “This study reconsiders the “double standard of aging” hypothesis, which states that older women are judged as being less attractive than older men. We considered the subjects sexual orientation (i.e., heterosexual, gay, lesbian, bisexual) and showed that older women were not judged more negatively than older men per se. Male subjects exhibited a stronger youth bias than females, but only if the target picture was a potential sexual partner. Females showed an equal amount of preference for youthful faces, independent of the targets sex and regardless of whether the target was a potential sexual partner.”

    In other words, the study confirms what it’s authors seem to so desperately want to disprove.

    Like


  76. Don’t know about you but- Russian girls in Brooklyn are all cock teases, gold diggers- and very xenophobic.

    Unless you speak Russian or run a hedge fund forget about trying to go for the Brighton Beach hotties.

    They are fucking hot and dress almost naked in like hot fucking strippers clothes- but I have never met women that are bigger cock teases in my life.
    Most of them ONLY care about money and status.

    They flaunt what they have- but they almost always go out with other Russians.
    I don’t know what Russians you are meeting- but every non Russian New Yorker I know stays away from them.

    Like


  77. Some of these comments would make great posts on Twitter.

    Guys: Web forum comments really don’t get the exposure that tweets get. They are good to make as an adjunct to what you really want to get out to the world (anonymously if you want). I am not saying that this forum should be abandoned…quite the contrary…but you will need to get out there on Twitter (the ocean or the highway if you want) and rake even more people in.

    Listen, we have radical feminists using software to garner 25,000 followers in a month while someone like me has grown to a very good 1,600 followers with US Senators following me. We need a jump of MRAs and politically incorrect guys (who cares if alpha or beta) onto Twitter where posts must never be about mundane things you are doing or eating, but be comments like the above.

    Don’t let the feminine sounding words “Twitterer” or Tweet keep you from stopping the feminist Twitter tidal wave.

    Twitter isn’t a fad guys. It is micro-blogging and may soon be an open system not run entirely by Twitter itself.

    Think of micro-blogging as a new form of Internet the way browsers and email are. Remember that the Usenet was another form of Internet that browsers and email replaced.

    I recently got a Twitter follow from an Israeli religious guy Cohen who is seeking affirmation from the Feminist Christian alliance. He wrote a largely bogus book SlaveCatcher about so-called human trafficking (including voluntary prostitution and innocent marriage agencies) and he seeks to feminize the world with the idea that all women are victims of male lust. Among other things he of course wants all men arrrested who say hello to a whore. He just got on Twitter this month and now he has 25,000 followers using software that I haven’t been unethical enough to use (nor do I really have time to pursue men’s issues online much at all).

    Surely one of you guys has the time and moxy to use such software to counter that jackass with something less politically correct.

    Tweets can lead into his blog posts.

    But right now he is not doing that and Glenn Sacks has only made one tweet back in March..our best writers and thinkers are completely handing over new media power to men’s enemies.

    I thought most of us guys hated the old media for throwing us under a bus.

    Yet, we are doing that to ourselves by not taking the few minutes to get a Twitter account and posting the kind of thing we would say in the comments section of this blog. You don’t have to identify yourselves. You don’t even have to post your own content = comments.

    Just put an RT and the @name of someone else with a repeat of something they wrote. Do that 20 times and follow 1000 people. The next thing you know you will have 500 followers and you’ve become a force for men.

    If you haven’t noticed, feminists control the US Congress and laws like VAWA and IMBRA are just the beginning.

    IMBRA was upheld by a Republican federal judge who said “There is no fundamental liberty interest in an American contacting a foreigner for a relationship”.

    That’s right guys: our Constitutional right to assembly has already been taken away while some of you stare at your belly button or your biceps and talk too much about what it means to be a Beta male or Alpha male.

    I would define a Beta male as someone who ignores the takeover of the US Congress in order to preen about how good he is now at sitting with his back to the bar. 😉

    Believe me, the number of beta males on Twitter who are terrified of mentioning the word feminism are legion.

    Mix it up guys

    Like


  78. Polish Brooklynites are very similar. Xenophobic, clannish, materialistic, and not too bright cockteases. I figure there’s something about Brooklyn that attracts the worst of Eastern Europe. It’s like a magnet for the Eastern European versions of Hot Chicks With Douchebags.

    Like


  79. Polish Brooklynites are very similar. Xenophobic, clannish, materialistic, and not too bright cockteases.

    Translation:
    “dem new white wummin won’t do a bruvah 😦

    Like


  80. Translation:
    “dem new white wummin won’t do a bruvah “

    Yeah, because that’s really how I speak. Idiot.

    If you’re working class or lower middle class they won’t do you either, even if you’re Polish. Even my Polish friends complain about this and won’t date them.

    And as much as I know you like to turn EVERYTHING into a color thing because of your limited simplistic worldview, it’s not a race thing either. A lot of nonPolish white guys have trouble with them as well.

    Like


  81. if even your POlish friends complain Joe, then the word “xenophobic” doesn´t apply dude ………

    but it is hard to avoid blaming those damn whites, isn´t it?

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  82. but it is hard to avoid blaming those damn whites, isn´t it?

    What did I blame whites for? I’d say it’s hard for you guys to stop playing victim actually.

    Like


  83. You know what, forget it. I forgot how oversensitive you guys are, it’s like being in a feminist site and dispelling pretty lies about women. Fine, you guys win, I’ll bow out.

    Like


  84. Joe,

    Same shit all the time. We’ve been through this in the nigerian argument thread(the whole nigerian is a shithole/whitepeople invented everything). These people are a bunch of crybabies. Pure and simple. The irony completely hits them in the head and they couldnt recognize it.

    They are always crying and complaining about women, minorities, liberals, etc. Always whining. You will think they are helpless two year old who cant wipe his own arse.

    Like


  85. Apparently, gig doesnt know the meaning of the word “xenophobic”.

    Look it up:

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/xenophobia

    It goes cuts across race, gender, class, countries, continents, even damn planets.

    RETARDS.

    Like


  86. Death, you are a perfect mix of the worst in whites and blacks

    You are angry and bitter because we don´t recognyze the wonders of Nigerian Civilization, as the average white beta would be

    And dumb, because you think Polish girls can be xenophobic because they reject Polish guys. As the average black would

    DO you play world of warcratf?

    Do you use or sell drugs?

    Like


  87. Hilarious.

    Gig arguing against the dictionary definition of “xenophobia”. Amazing stupidity.

    Let me repeat this very slowly: xenophobia is basically fear of strangers. Strange is defined by contrast to whatever identity you ascribe to yourself. Northern polish people can hate southern polish people. Big city poles can hate small city poles. There are subethnic groups among polish people. It cuts across gender, class, tribal lines, states, countries, continents, and even planets. It is simply deep fear of whatever is consider strange. Regardless of whatever that thing is. Hell, it could be something as silly as people wearing blue shoes.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/xenophobia

    Jesus, get some education, you moron. Arguing against dictionary definition of xenophobia.

    Like


  88. not just that Death, but he’s reponding to a point i never even made (that xenophobia was causing them to reject Polish guys). In my original comment I mentioned xenophobic AND materialistic in the same sentence:

    Xenophobic, clannish, materialistic

    It’s possible to reject one group of guys for materialistic reasons and another group for xenophobic reasons and another for clannish reasons. Like a typical HBD dunce, he cherrypicks the argument in a way that helps him look smart by attacking an argument I never actually made (focusing only on xenophobic while ignoring that I also said materialistic and clannish).

    Also, I didn’t say that the Polish guys I know were complaining about being rejected by the women. I said the Polish guys I know were complaining about and rejecting the women because of their materialism. Here’s the paragraph again:

    If you’re working class or lower middle class they won’t do you either, even if you’re Polish. Even my Polish friends complain about this and won’t date them.

    See? I said my Polish friends don’t want to date the Brooklyn Polish WOMEN even when given the opportunity because of their mindset, not the other way around. Another reason why gig’s xenophobia point is irrelevant.

    So it doesn’t even matter if its logicaly possible for Polish women to reject Polish men on grounds of xenophobia, SINCE I NEVER ONCE MADE THE POINT THAT POLISH WOMEN WERE SPECIFICALLY REJECTING POLISH MEN ON XENOPHOBIC GROUNDS.

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  89. I accept defeat.

    Polish guys are strange. No wonder Polish girls fear them (see: fear + strange == xenophobia!!!)

    The facts that Polish girls are usually daughters and sisters of Polish guys cannot alleviate the strangeness of Polish guys.

    Like


  90. it’s good of you to accept defeat gig. if you can’t understand simple dictionary definitions or do simple reading comprehension, you shouldn’t argue with your betters. stick to drive-by snarky comments you excel at and leave the intelligent debate to ppl who are actually smart. thanks. 😉 (nothing is worse than dumb ppl who convince themselves they’re smart)

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  91. SINCE I NEVER ONCE MADE THE POINT THAT POLISH WOMEN WERE SPECIFICALLY REJECTING POLISH MEN ON XENOPHOBIC GROUNDS.

    you left that open. so I hit between your legs and forced you to the remake your point

    so if Polish girls are xenophobic yet they can´t be so towards Polish boys, they should be towards someone else. ]

    May I infer that they are xenophobic towards Blacks? OR can possibly be some other reason for polish girls to reject Blacks?
    And if there is another reason for Polsih girls to reject blacks that is not “xenophobia”, can I possibly infer that you are blaming whitey without any reason for it? Or the rejection of blacks by Polish girls can only be explained through the pure and unadultered evil in their hearts?

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  92. My earlier outspokenness of certain delicate subjects created two monsters: (1) the Joe character who yipped at my heels with my every response to Obsidian on something and now does this apropos-nothing “Polish Brooklyn girls are just as bad as the Russian” and (2) a sexbots-fetishist who now fancies himself a curry-flavored Obsidian who tries to impress the Indian female commenters with his fluency in all 200+ Subcontinental languages.

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  93. ”””””””Joe
    but it is hard to avoid blaming those damn whites, isn´t it?

    What did I blame whites for? I’d say it’s hard for you guys to stop playing victim actually.
    ””””””””””’

    DId that actually get sid by you joe?

    hahhaah

    Like


  94. I found your article quite useful and interesting. I have bookmarked the site for later usage. Peter
    See also Adult Dating Sites: nr1datingsites.nl

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  95. Yeah, Peter. It’s very useful blog. I bookmarked it too)

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