Chicks Dig Jerks: A Series

And not just loser chicks with low self esteem. Mexican beauty queens who have their choice of men are fucking drug and gun running lowlifes.

Alpha Males

Alpha Males

Remember, this babe went along willingly with these guys. 

Alpha Female

Alpha Female

The kind of thugs she is fucking are bigger alphas than CEOs who work hard all day managing billion dollar companies only to come home to fat, frumpy wives well past their prime.

So why are you still busting your ass?





Comments


  1. on December 31, 2008 at 11:47 am ironrailsironweights

    Thugs of that sort aren’t “Alphas” except in the crudest sense.

    Peter

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  2. crude or classy, an alpha is an alpha.
    and the betas cried unfathomably bitter tears.

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  3. damn, look at those guns

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  4. They’re not just lowlifes, guys like these are responsible for murder, terror, and turning Mexico into a narcostate. Yet the babe wants to be with them. A starker illustration of bad guys ending up with the babe would be harder to find. Hope she shares their fate.

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  5. The guy in the white shirt is more alpha than the one in the blue shirt.

    He looks more intelligent, and he’s looking square at the camera while the other guy is daydreaming. His head is level, while the other guy’s head is pointing up, a sign of trying too hard to look tough.

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  6. Her fate should be sharing my bed for the next 20 years.

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  7. Thought the same thing when I saw this story a few days ago.

    The whole point of traditional morality was to control this particular woman-specific stupidism. You see it also in things like women getting married to death-row serial killers.

    Hope she shares their fate.

    amen.

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  8. HAHAHA
    She’s fucking stupid and you call her alpha.
    Based on?

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  9. If we don’t bust our ass, what are we going to do instead?

    I doubt unemployed >>> successful.

    And although someof the same things happen here, Mexico is not the same as the US.

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  10. Based on?

    her beauty.

    see:

    http://roissy.wordpress.com/2007/09/27/defining-the-alpha-female/

    you must be new here.

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  11. Given the size of her implants, she probabaly had low self-esteem from before she became a beauty queen. People, no matter the sex, make extremely bad choices in mates for themselves. The only other alternative is having other people make the same bad choices for you instead, which doesn’t seem to be an alternative that most of us in the West would like to take.

    You would suggest that the CEO’s dump their aging wives? How does this jibe with your identifying sluts post. Men should try to find women with a sense of loyalty who would not cheat on them. Men, on the other hand, should dump their women once they start to age. Under those circumstances, what incentive do women have to stay loyal?

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  12. So why are you still busting your ass?

    1) see first photograph – these guys are on the verge of transitioning from appreciating pussy to appreciating cock

    2) CEO with game >> lowlife >> CEO without game

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  13. I lived in Colombia for years, and the story was the same: former beauty queens bought and sold by drug traffickers. I rarely went to clubs, but when I did, I had to be really careful….dance with the wrong woman, and some armed goon would kill you. I don’t exaggerate.

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  14. Roissy is on point here.

    These guys are alphas, hands down.

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  15. The soon-to-be-appreciating-cock dude on the left has either a Habsburg or Romanov eagle on his shirt. His aspirations to a dynastic fortune have just been cut short.

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  16. Sorry, make that “on the right”.

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  17. In rio’s favelas, upper-class rich blonde girls go with the scum drug dealers. I saw it myself in a hospital where this beautiful girl was being consoled by this low-life. Made sense to me at the time.

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  18. on December 31, 2008 at 12:56 pm Turkeybaster115

    anonymous, please don’t try to keep track of roissy’s inconsistency. Just read his posts, and get whatever, small insignificant amount of info/entertainment you can get out of them.

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  19. Indeed, I am new here.
    About your definition…I agree. At least most of it.
    But “if a male 4 snags a female 8 his ranking goes up, maybe even as far up as a male 8. Other women see and hear about him with his hot girl and the phenomenon of female preselection assures that he will now be more attractive to a bigger pool of women.” however is completely wrong.

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  20. if you’re a CEO what difference does a frumpy wife make? She’s just for social respectability. When you’ve got money you can just bang hookers on the side. Dropping a couple thousand a month is no big deal. When you’ve got money you don’t need to waste your time learning “game”. You can save your energy for things that interest you. Getting caught is a problem, but a man that rich won’t be hurting so much if he gets wiped clean in divorce court. Not like a regular joe, anyway. Best case scenario is that the frumpy wife knows the deal and goes along with it. The humiliation of a divorce might be enough incentive for her to not take advantage of the courts.

    Really though I think a CEO shouldn’t marry at all, or if he must, go foreign.

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  21. “2) CEO with game >> lowlife >> CEO without game”

    Lie by omission. Alpha lowlife w/ game >>>>>> CEO with game > lowlife >>> CEO without game (but you can’t get to be a CEO without some form of game among guys, so there should be some transfer).

    Women are emotional, stupid and primal. The “I’ll personally kill you” air that a lowlife alpha can give off soaks her panties. As alpha as a CEO can get, all he has to counter that is massive amounts of money. That actually works against him when gaming because it brings out the calculating part of women.

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  22. Really though I think a CEO shouldn’t marry at all, or if he must, go foreign.

    A supportive wife is a huge asset in an up-and-coming guys’ efforts to get ahead at work. Not just with keeping the house, making him dinners, etc., but also with helping him get promoted.

    That’s because above a certain professional level, never-married guys over 40 are seen as a little wierd. It’s not just that they don’t meet society’s expectations. It’s also that ageing bachelors develop quirks and habits that others see as odd.

    But I agree with the spirit of what you’re saying. Marry the wrong woman, and you’re screwed.

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  23. Well said PA.

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  24. That actually works against him [a CEO] when gaming because it brings out the calculating part of women.

    On the other hand, an alpha thug will attract a disproportionate number of psychotic or otherwise damaged women.

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  25. Re beda:”…appreciating cock.” Yeah these hombres got caught,but…A)They must be folk heroes to some extent,with their “beauty queen.’ B)Mexican jails–assuming they serve down there and arent extradited to here–are notoriously corrupt. You can get anything u want there if you have the money/power/connections. I would assume that includes conjugals. I wouldnt count on either of these amigos getting their anuses stretched out,unless o’course they want it,natch! BTW it mustve been the guy on the right she was banging;the other guy is just too “feo”!

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  26. Steve:
    I like tough guys. I’m fairly pretty. I’m not (that) stupid. I don’t like lowlifes. SHE’s stupid, that’s it.
    Let’s not over analize this.

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  27. PA. Never-married guys over 40 are gay.

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  28. question: are her breasts real? they look like implants

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  29. SHE’s stupid, that’s it.

    you have no evidence she is stupid. for all we know she’s a 140 IQ genius. women don’t get wet for certain men with their prefrontal cortexes; they get wet for them with their hindbrains.

    now it may be a stupid move that women choose to act on their attraction for these types of scum, but that is a different matter entirely than pointing out that women’s animal attraction itself says nothing about their mental ability.

    Never-married guys over 40 are gay.

    or smart.

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  30. Newsflash to those who think these guys are going to be fuck toys in in some Mexican prison: Guys like them run prisons in Mexico and they don’t take any shit either from the cops or military either. They kill and behead people and they probably killed the former Mexican Minister of the Interior just because he was a nuisance. These guys are powerful and wealthy and chicks dig that. Always have, always will. She probably though it was edgy and cool to hang out with criminals like that. Well, she is paying for that.

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  31. And on another note. She is much more attractive than the mousy, shrew like Freida Pinto. To bad they can’t lock her up for being offensive to the eyes.

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  32. So if men’s alphaness and 0-10 score is based solely on what kind of chicks he pulls, can we assume that a guy’s score = the score of his girl or the average of the girls he’s banging? I mean if we’re placing all of a male’s alpha on his quality of pussy then this would have to be true. (or at least the score of the girls he’s willing to admit to banging)

    i.e. If a guy is banging an 8 he’s an 8. If you thought he was a 4 it doesn’t matter because he’s banging an 8.

    This would be further evidence that men are basically functions of women and completely contingent on their whims and fancies. Even an alpha is contingent on that; it’s just that women choose alpha-types in higher quantity.

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  33. god she looks perfect! is all i can really think

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  34. Roissy,

    I wouldn’t assume that she was attracted to those men. In Colombia, drug traffickers have harems of hot women, but this woman was, apparently, involved in the business. Lots of women run drugs in Colombia, but the beauty queens normally stick to servicing the masters….not actually participating in the business.

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  35. My mistake. She was the girfriend of the one of the dudes.

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  36. [quote]women don’t get wet for certain men with their prefrontal cortexes; they get wet for them with their hindbrains.[/quote]

    Technically, it takes place in the thalamus which is in the mid-brain or also the top of the brain stem. I would consider the hind brain to be in the occipital lobe, where the spatial reasoning is, or the cerebellum which coordinates skeletal muscles.

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  37. There’s a lot of tough guys out there, some more, some less…I see in myself this same fondness for this combination of protection and danger…but she’s stupid, no shadow of doubt. And if (I said IF) she’s a 140 IQ genius that’s makes her even more stupid, because she has all physical material (including brains) not to put herself in such situation and still, there she is.
    I get everything that I want and you won’t see me in her position, babe.
    And yes, never-married guys over 40 are gay. That has nothing to do with smarts.
    Besos.
    Happy New Year, roissy.

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  38. This would be further evidence that men are basically functions of women and completely contingent on their whims and fancies.

    in a deep, ego shaking sense, this is essentially true. whoever does the choosing, writes the rules which the chosen must follow to get what they want. since women’s eggs are scarcer and pricier than men’s sperm, women do the choosing.

    (Addendum: women do most of the choosing. men choose as well, otherwise women would not have evolved big tits, slim waists, and beautiful faces.)

    note that this fact of the market is not an endorsement for a certain set of behaviors. men who want to do well with women should act against type. they should act as if they are doing the choosing. women feel a pussy explosion for men who flip the script like this.

    god she looks perfect!

    she’s a solid 9. most CEOs’ wives are solid 4s. however, their mistresses are another story.

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  39. curious: why not 10?

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  40. Technically, it takes place in the thalamus which is in the mid-brain or also the top of the brain stem.

    fine. i was using literary license for impact. my point remains.

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  41. Maria,

    I am a never married guy over 40. I was engaged twice. The second time I broke it off, six years ago, because the bitch turned out to be an alcoholic psycho harpy nut case. Thank god I did that, rather than bend to societies expectations that I be married with children no matter what and miserable. I am perfectly happy, fuck many women, and if you don’t believe that I am not gay I will be glad to fuck your brains out sometime.

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  42. curious: why not 10?

    [ voice of mexican drug lord ]
    “are we going to quibble over fuji versus gala apples? just have the delivery of the hot babes by Friday, amigo, and you get to live.”
    [ / voice of mexican drug lord ]

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  43. the putatively lovely maria wrote:
    There’s a lot of tough guys out there, some more, some less…I see in myself this same fondness for this combination of protection and danger

    gentlemen and betas, read it and weep. even in the middle of attempting to smear women who fall for badboys as stupid, maria admits she is drawn to them herself.

    this is a bestial brutish id triumphant world we live in and the sooner you accept this fact the easier you will get what you want from it.

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  44. I see in myself this same fondness for this combination of protection and danger…but she’s stupid, no shadow of doubt.

    Translation from womanese into English: Her thug-chasing is stupid, mine is perfectly understandable.

    And yes, never-married guys over 40 are gay.

    Do you come from some foreign culture where this might frequently be true? It’s not a safe assumption in English-speaking countries in this age.

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  45. Damn, roissy beat me to it. Er, by five minutes.

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  46. gentlemen and betas, read it and weep. even in the middle of attempting to smear women who fall for badboys as stupid, maria admits she is drawn to them herself.

    yep, women want to fuck drug dealer and killers. yet, many end up NOT fucking them. mind you the median of lifetime sex partners is 3 (plus the female downplay bonus).

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  47. I think most women view never-married men over 40 as unliklely candidates to be good lifelong partners, and for many good reasons. But do women such as Maria wave them off as gay to avoid confronting the real reasons?

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  48. commenter: Technically, it takes place in the thalamus which is in the mid-brain or also the top of the brain stem.

    Roissy: fine. i was using literary license for impact. my point remains.

    me: Why do you use “literary license” as a reason when someone catches your misstep? I’ve seen this in a couple of threads lately. When you correct commenters, you beat them shamelessly.

    And yes, it is the thalamus, but also the hippocampus.

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  49. “women do the choosing”

    But males of several mammal species essentially beat the shit out of each other to win the harem, and then beat the shit out of all challengers to the harem for as long as possible, or get the shit (and sex drive) beaten out of them in a valiant defeat. And they don’t even decide on this. It’s all just instinct.

    We do the same thing, instinctually competing, now for social status. I’m still not sure if we’ve been consistently monogamous, polyandrous, or polygamous throughout history, but it seems clear that the West has attempted, more or less, to enforce a formal monogamy (with an informal, extra-legal, tolerated degree of polyandry (mistresses)) –and that’s worked pretty well, collectively-beating -the-shit-out-of-other-ethnic-groups, -nations, -nation-states, -civilizations, -etc.-wise, thank you very much.

    So neither women nor men write all the rules. Part is instinct. Part is the social group, small or large as the case may be. The problem now, for some, is that the current western social group rule-making body (culture) has decided, for reasons unknown, to skew the rules a certain way. It’s probably temporary.

    I speculate the reason flipping the script on women is so attractive to them is because it is an indicator that the male in question has a strong competitive instinct and is willing to use it –not as against the women in question per se, but as against all comers, i.e. the culture (other men? women who presume to rationalize or control pussy distribution). Revolutionaries probably score a lot of chicks.

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  50. redhead, stop being a tightassed little bitch.

    OMG, the wrong medical terms that no one gives a fuck about where used! Call a wikipedia nerd!

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  51. Yeah women love the bad boy, but they aren’t fueled completely by their hinderbrain. Most are revolted by guys who are too violent or extreme. It’s probably evolutionary or something. Women love to be protected and some fighting and toughness is definitely a plus, but too much violence only brings the same to your house and village. And in the old days, vengeance wrought on your family and village lead to destruction and murder of your lineage. Just my theory.

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  52. Why do you use “literary license” as a reason when someone catches your misstep?

    it was only a “misstep” under the strictest nerd interpretation that cannot accommodate symbolism. the truth value of my argument stands — our sex drives are not governed by our higher brains.

    are you, redhead, a nerd?
    or are you just an opportunist?

    When you correct commenters, you beat them shamelessly.

    correction: when commenters deliberately lie, i lavish my sadistic cruelty upon them shamelessly for my own amusement.

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  53. Anonymous:

    Given the size of her implants, she probabaly had low self-esteem from before she became a beauty queen. People, no matter the sex, make extremely bad choices in mates for themselves.

    Whenever one of these “hot-chick-with-thug” cases is discussed in real life, the chorus from women is the same: “That silly girl. She must be crazy. Or stupid. Or have low self-esteem.” Or any combination of the three.

    It is a bit of a mystery then, why these alleged paragons of mental instability seem to virtually without exception choose men with the *same* constellation of traits: violent, thuggish and socially dominant.

    If these poor girls are as screwy in the head as we are led to believe, why do we never see any of these hotties express their poor decision making skills by doing something REALLY against-type, like say, dating an invalid? Or a child? Or a destitute bum? Or a fat slob? Or a nerd? But no — it’s always the same old story we have come to expect: muscular, ruthless, violent and cunning.

    Why, it’s almost enough to make one suspect that these so-called crazy and insecure girls are not so scrambled as we are expected to believe, but are instead examples of women who have, for various reasons, resisted the social indoctrination of what women “should” value, and so are in reality just truthfully expressing the purest form of female desire that exists deep in their hearts.

    Nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh….could be!

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  54. Cz,
    From what I read Men would form alliances of alphas, beat the shit out of the other men (and kill em) and rape the women. But only till we started pair bonding.

    Pair bonding switched us to letting the women pick instead of being forced all the time. The alpha and the pair bonding stuff is still here, but the economic benefit of pair bonding is no longer present in our society. That’s a big part of the break down of marriage. We simply became too rich.

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  55. Smiler:

    Translation from womanese into English: Her thug-chasing is stupid, mine is perfectly understandable.

    Heh.

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  56. I speculate the reason flipping the script on women is so attractive to them is because it is an indicator that the male in question has a strong competitive instinct and is willing to use it

    i think it goes even deeper than this. women perceive (usually justifiably) choosy men as men who have their pick of women. why else would he take his sweet time deciding which woman gets his fullest attention but for the fact that he has other women waiting in the wings? such a man is highly prized for his sperm.

    one of the basic tenets of game is that the tactics taught mimic the behavior of choosy men.

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  57. We should consider the social status of the woman. Specifically, how rich were her mommy and daddy? Rich and beautiful girls don’t often find themselves chumming with these kind of men, and especially not in class-obsessed Latin America. I bet you a good sum of cash that Miss Sinaloa does not come from money.

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  58. Legalize drugs. It will be a lot less glamorous to be having sex with someone in the drug trade when it’s being run by MNCs instead of a bunch of thugs.

    It’s stories like these that make me so glad I live in the United States instead of somewhere in Latin America. The Northern European ideals that this country was built on like the Protestant Work Ethic are still fairly strong in this country although not as strong as they were due to multiculturalism.

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  59. Are they still alphas now that they’re busted?

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  60. Maria,

    Sounds like someone is worked up over unmarried men beyond the age of 40. Did that hit a button?

    I know quite a few unmarried men over the age of 40 who are quite not gay (but indulge regularly with much younger women), just totally unwilling to give a woman any claim to their money.

    These numbers will only grow over time, as most of my friends and colleagues around my age (late 20s, early 30s) are much more marriage averse than the older group.

    Spout off what you want, but reality flies in the face of your assertion; just look at the marriage rate and illegitimate birth rate in most modern nations.

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  61. If these poor girls are as screwy in the head as we are led to believe, why do we never see any of these hotties express their poor decision making skills by doing something REALLY against-type, like say, dating an invalid? Or a child? Or a destitute bum? Or a fat slob? Or a nerd?

    good point.
    why don’t these supposedly stupid women who fall for thugs ever stupidly fall for loser nerds?

    is it more stupid for a woman to betray her innate sexual desire and be with beta nerds or to heed it and swoon for thugs?

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  62. There is a difference between simply being mentally deficient and being primitive.

    Humans face a conflict between, shall we say, base desires and rational desires.

    Neither of those make it desirable to date an invalid, child, bum, or fat slob. A couple of female school teachers in Florida notwithstanding, women tend not to do those things because it neither indulges their base desires (which tell them to go for any variety of the mysterious, sinister, thug, cruel, etc type) or their rational desires (stable, rich, indulgent).

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  63. re: falling marriage rates and umarried men over 40.

    maria, you sound like a nice girl with your heart in the right place. if you want to see the institution of marriage thrive and men getting married rather than alleycatting their whole lives with younger women, you have to work to change the laws and the cultural climate to be less unfavorable to men’s interests, or at least to persuade other women that the present system is a mess.

    will you do this?
    i predict you won’t.
    why?
    because marriage and divorce law benefits you and the sisterhood greatly.
    for now.
    but that is changing as men are slowly wising up that the fix is in.
    and you will regret not doing something when you could have.
    besos.

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  64. As far as the CEO thing…. All I have to say is “HALF”…. (thank you Eddie Murphy).

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  65. gentlemen and betas, read it and weep. even in the middle of attempting to smear women who fall for badboys as stupid, maria admits she is drawn to them herself.–Roissy

    Must gentlemen weep? That is, of course, gentlemen in the older sense of the word so a finer distinction is in order. It is understandable if you conflate the postmodern “gentlemen” with obeisant betas who defers to a woman’s every whim out of some sense of misplaced propriety. Such as these will shed the tears.

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  66. I think today’s situation is directly related to the damn Victorian era totally hosing the view of the genders. That historical perspective coloring our view on genders cross-roading with the modern egalitarian idea of sexuality form like Voltron… a horribly defunct Voltron with no blazing sword. Either view in isolation results in some stability, but crossing the two really hoses things up.

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  67. No way are these low level cretins “true alphas”

    Yeah, imprudence makes pussies wet, but this is just a good example of what happens when betas are forced to compete for women and resources in a “free for all” third world society.

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  68. Stupid women do date children (have you seen the news lately, and all the blonde teacher/student situations?). They will also date fat guys (someone has to), invalids, and all other types of undesirables. For the most part, except for the hot teacher/student stuff, it isn’t particularly newsworthy/illegal, so you don’t hear much about it.

    Intelligence and attractiveness don’t have a great deal to do with each other, as much as people might wish it were not so. So a stupid woman, making stupid decisions is hardly surprising or noteworthy. Without her beauty to make people pay attention to the story, it isn’t even really news. Those guys make a lot of money, and they tend to have beautiful (if low class) girlfriends. Sometimes the girlfriends get busted with them. Ho-hum. It doesn’t show that women like jerks, it just shows that women like money, which everyone already knows. A normal guy, with a lot of money, will tend to get, if he so wishes, a much more beautiful type of women than a broke guy with the same qualities.

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  69. roissy – good point you made above about why these chicks swoon for thugs and not for fat slobs or nerds.

    I would add that evolutionarily, most of our genes were laid down in prehistoric times, when there were no laws, or where social rebuke and punishment of thugs and miscreants was disorganized and spotty, because there were no elaborate government structures nor certain means of enforcement of rules.

    So, back then the social risk of being a thug was much less than it is now. Thugs were simply manly men who took what they wanted directly, rather than maneuvering indirectly.

    Since in prehistoric societies the risks and stigmas of such behavior may have been perceived as less than they are now, the evolutionary advantages of such behavior may have been greater.

    Hence women are programmed genetically to see a certain amount of thuggishness as evolutionarily advantageous.

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  70. “Stupid women do date children”

    I wouldn’t exactly call this “dating”.

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  71. joe t:
    So, back then the social risk of being a thug was much less than it is now.

    i’m not sure about this. intuitively, i would suspect that in small tribal bands the thugs would reveal themselves right quick and the revenge would be swift.
    otoh, without an overarching legal entity to dispense this natural and justified urge for revenge, it’s possible the biggest thugs could get away with their thuggery by cowing the lesser thugs who would be their ousters into passivity.

    Hence women are programmed genetically to see a certain amount of thuggishness as evolutionarily advantageous.

    correct. women are essentially amoral animals who are pragmatic above all else. they want what’s best for their children and future children, which in prehistoric times meant the guy who could bring home the most bacon. the means he uses to get this bacon does not concern the woman. all she cares is that the resources are available for her and her children’s use.

    this is why men were the ones to invent the concept of justice and codify it in the framework of civilized institutions.

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  72. “this is why men were the ones to invent the concept of justice and codify it in the framework of civilized institutions.”

    Yes. I’d add that it was the greater betas who did that codifying. (Alphas would have no reason to, since they are better equipped to prosper under conditions with lax or nonexistent laws.)

    Interesting side note: great prosecutors are almost always greater betas…. essentially betas but with alpha-type aggressiveness. Think Eliot Spitzer or Patrick Fitzgerald. These are the types that are drawn to upholding rule of law and the codification thereof.

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  73. Jackson:

    There is a difference between simply being mentally deficient and being primitive.

    Humans face a conflict between, shall we say, base desires and rational desires.

    Neither of those make it desirable to date an invalid, child, bum, or fat slob. A couple of female school teachers in Florida notwithstanding, women tend not to do those things because it neither indulges their base desires (which tell them to go for any variety of the mysterious, sinister, thug, cruel, etc type) or their rational desires (stable, rich, indulgent).

    Yes, there is a conflict between “base desires and rational desires” as you say. My point was that it is misleading to characterize a woman’s indulgence of her “base”, i.e. pure, desires as an indication of mental illness or low self-esteem. Some of these women know exactly what they are getting into and they do it with aplomb. Calling such behavior mental illness merely serves to obfuscate the true nature of women in general and in so doing createsthe illusion that such women are outliers in a fundamental sense. Not so. Virtually all women have such desires deep within — regardless of any particular woman’s method of managing and restraining herself.

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  74. She made a free choice to be with these men.

    Obviously she is attracted to males who are “leaders of men” and can “boss other men around”. It appeals to the primal instincts of women, but unfortunately for law-abiding men, our societies with their legalities have evolved past her base instincts.

    If women had the future-time-orientation that men have evolved to have, few would ever make the choice to take up with a criminal. But women have not evolved under those pressures. They have evolved to be pretty, and that took care of everything else.

    Men do not have this luxury however. Most men know that leading lives of crime make them end up in prison or dead. These men are going to be going to jail, perhaps for a decade. I wonder if they think nailing this hot babe was worth it several years from now when they are released from prison? I kinda doubt it.

    This young babe will probably also ruefully think back to whatever fun she had in the sheets getting gang banged by these two as “a youthful mistake” several years from now when she gets out of prison with an older face and body, her S&R value lowered.

    Average working Italian men used to lament “mob dolls or ‘molls'” years ago when the La Cosa Nostra was much stronger here in the USA. Those “molls” are old hags now of course, and those men married average wives and had average families, with average happiness. Most of the mobsters died in prison, after leading lives that were calculated subconciously to enable them to be able to fuck young mob dolls in their youth. That just life on the Savannah out there. Life isn’t fair, and its never going to be.

    Game, if a man learns it well, might afford a thinking-future-time-oriented man the ability to meet and emulate enough of the “leader of men” behaviors to attract a young babe like the one pictured above for sex or more. I would not however, if I were a young man, consider becoming a gun-running criminal to have the power/money/aura to bang a chick like her. I dont think a decade in the joint, the possible HIV infection, the wrecked career prospects would be worth it.

    BTW—-CEO’s who marry frumpy wives have themselves to blame. They weren’t looking hard enough.

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  75. It’s stories like these that make me so glad I live in the United States instead of somewhere in Latin America.

    Isn’t it nice how both of our major political parties are hellbent on importing these guys to America by the tens of millions?

    Like


  76. >>So why are you still busting your ass?
    >If we don’t bust our ass, what are we going to do instead?

    Have a goal, a dream, an adventure. Live for something greater than yourself.

    Being afraid of losing your money, social status, whatever – that’s unattractive. Even for CEOs. Be willing to throw it all away and pursue something with your whole heart.

    Here’s a few options:
    -Get a go-nowhere job in a mountain, spend all your free time skiing, painting and banging tourists
    -Travel the world via couchsurfing and learn a skill you can perform in public places for tips
    -Be a nanny part time, and tutor inner-city kids pro bono
    -Work on an organic farm
    -Be a bodyguard in Guatemala
    -Surf every day for 6 months, then teach surfing lessons

    Each of the above is a true story; my friends doing these things will probably get “real jobs” some day, but there’s no need to get a real job until you have a wife and kids, really. Probably not even then. You can save 20% for retirement even if you’re only making $8 an hour.

    If you’re in a cubicle right now, unless you really truly love your job, spend the next hour getting your finances in order, and quit.

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  77. all she cares is that the resources are available for her and her children’s use.

    Yep. Yet, that alone does not explain the appeal of criminals. The whole “protection and danger thing” adds to the story.

    The amoral pragmatism in lieu of “sexy sons” is the reason why some women fuck thugs AND fuck CEO’s.

    Betas get laid, too. Admittedly, they fuck the lower end of the hotness spectrum. Especially due to the age difference of women interested in bad boys and women interested in husband material.

    The bad boys are appealing, but the majority of fucking is done in LTR’s and women tend to use more prefrontal grey matter in these situations.

    As long as you have game, you can enjoy women. From a hedonist perspective, it is smarter to fuck women believing you are husband material than to sell drugs and ultimately pay for that by sucking dick for a couple of years.

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  78. this is why men were the ones to invent the concept of justice and codify it in the framework of civilized institutions.

    Which is why a woman’s politics (or really anything else having to do with abstract ideas) relative to yours are essentially irrelevant as to whether she will like you or not. Religion is a bit different as it gets mixed up with down on the ground personal morality, but most women have a hard time adhering to any principle that isn’t directly related to them.

    I would note though that men are pretty bad for abandoning principle in the face of an attractive woman too. Men will use any argument to justify getting it on with an attractive woman. The main difference it seems to me is that men will bend over backwards to justify their behaviour logically, while women just get lost in the moment. As so often, men will think badly while women won’t think at all.

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  79. anonymous:
    Stupid women do date children (have you seen the news lately, and all the blonde teacher/student situations?).

    date? children? specify what you mean by these terms.
    no, women *dating* actual children is so rare that to bring it up as a counterpoint illuminates nothing but your frantic desire to score a half-assed debate point.

    They will also date fat guys (someone has to),

    not true. no one has to. many losers go their whole lives and exit straight into the dirt without ever having been on a date, not to mention felt the joy of being loved by someone.
    that you don’t see them because they’re holed up in their dank gloomy basement apartments doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

    invalids, and all other types of undesirables. For the most part, except for the hot teacher/student stuff, it isn’t particularly newsworthy/illegal, so you don’t hear much about it.

    you don’t hear much about desirable women dating invalids and bums and genuine beta losers because… wait for it…
    they don’t.
    duh.

    Intelligence and attractiveness don’t have a great deal to do with each other, as much as people might wish it were not so.

    i think you meant to write “attraction”. in reality, there is a correlation between intelligence and attrativeness. smarter and more successful people tend to be better looking.

    Those guys make a lot of money, and they tend to have beautiful (if low class) girlfriends.

    it’s not money that gets the broads hot and bothered. it’s power. power means a higher likelihood of future resources. money is one manifestation of male power.

    Sometimes the girlfriends get busted with them. Ho-hum. It doesn’t show that women like jerks, it just shows that women like money, which everyone already knows.

    money is a form of power and so women are often attracted to men who have money because the men who are good at getting money usually possess dominant alpha traits. jerks are dominant men. that is why women love them.
    the thugs this beauty queen hooked up with do not look particularly rich to me, but by the standards of the shithole mexican peasantry, maybe they were doing alright.

    A normal guy, with a lot of money, will tend to get, if he so wishes, a much more beautiful type of women than a broke guy with the same qualities.

    all else equal, yes a rich guy will land the hot babe more often than the poor guy.
    but as is the case in the matter of male desirability to women, all else is rarely equal.

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  80. Joe T —

    Bad reading. Most of human history was spent as a hunter-gatherer society. Which meant even the most lowly beta could get pissed off and stick a spear up the backside of an Alpha hogging the women. Moreover, even the best hunter could come up empty, and would need the support of the group. The longing throughout most societies for “primitive” type living reflects the relative egalitarian nature of hunter-gatherers, and of course ignoring the rather harsh conditions.

    The best choices for women during that era were men with social connections who were also good hunters and skilled in making weapons. More generalist than today. Remember that alliances were mostly on family-clan lines, first. Anyone who ticked off someone by say, using personal violence to take his mate, faces the relatives of said aggrieved man. This has been the experience of modern hunter-gatherers, with attrition rates of about 4% per annum. Women and children of course not immune either.

    NOW, the costs of thuggery are indeed lower. Personal retaliation is much lower, Patronage networks much greater (it’s hard to construct violent patronage networks in hunter-gatherer societies without money or any real goods other than what you carry with you). It’s why women like thugs, almost universally.

    Maria — if you don’t like thugs in society, you had better work for a society that discourages women from dating them. Otherwise, you will quickly see a race to the bottom in thuggery since it’s hard for men to be “Alpha” in the way Roissy is, but it’s easy to be a thug. Almost anyone can do it.

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  81. Isn’t it nice how both of our major political parties are hellbent on importing these guys to America by the tens of millions?

    i hate the apparatchiks of american deconstruction currently running our media, academia and government with all my heart.
    if i could will a rusty old 3rd world bus to run them all over and smash their fucking heads into mushy pulp i would.
    their deaths will bring me great joy, and if i should happen upon their graves i will piss on them.
    aaaaaaahhh….

    Like


  82. I think, with the exception of a few outliers, women want both the stability, as well as the wealth. Mot women, if faced with the choice of either/or will take the stability (above a certain floor) over the wealth. A non-trivial percentage of the women will take the wealth above stability. Rare is the woman who would like a dangerous, yet broke guy, and they tend to be very low quality women.

    Men invented the justice system to protect themselves from the violence of other men. The justice system is written by the winners of societies, and ultimately up to them to enforce it. It is in the interest of the beta males to have such a system, so they can have an outlet, yet do not have to go to war over minor issues and disputes. It is in the interest of alpha males, beause it prevents or retards the beta males from banding together to overthrow him, and annointing one of their own as the new alpha. It gives the betas an illusion of control and power, while rarely stopping the alpha from doing what he wants to do, as most of the laws will have been written by him.

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  83. their deaths will bring me great joy, and if i should happen upon their graves i will piss on them.

    Fuckin’ A. That’s why I pissed (figuratively) on both parties’ candidates in November, and wrote in Tom Tancredo. I felt clean afterwards.

    My conservative-leaning friends and relatives all voted for McCain (except my o m e g a male friend who votes Libertarian) I considered them tools for doing so.

    Seriously, I hope we’ll see Nuremberg-style trials for the bastards who sold out our civilization, both Europe and North America. If not Nuremberg-style, Ceausescu-style is fine with me too.

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  84. “Isn’t it nice how both of our major political parties are hellbent on importing these guys to America by the tens of millions?”

    This very phenomenon of women being deeply attracted towards these Mexican drug lords, their minions, and the ethos they exemplify may have some not insignificant part in explaining the desire of the lefties to erase our border and violate immigration law.

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  85. Semi-related question:

    I realize this scenario happened in Mexico, but why is it that in big US cities like NYC, DC, LA, etc., attractive Latinas like this almost never date outside of their race, and are much more often seen with criminal lowlives who are Latino, than with successful white, black, or Asian men?

    Is it just me, or are Latinas the ONLY breed of women in the US who, almost as a rule, rarely date outside their own group?

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  86. Is it just me? This chick isn’t doing it for me.

    Nice hair, nice hips, nice arms. But her face is kind of weird, and I don’t like her tats. 7.

    Also: “Mexican Beauty Queen Arrested In Gun-Filled Truck” is a headline that practically writes itself.

    That is an archetypal Mexican headline, straight-up!

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  87. Smiler, I said I like tough guys. And I do like. It’s a big difference from this to get involved with a lowlife, I count on your intelligence now, because I can’t be more clear than that.

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  88. PA

    Even if the last latin american entered the U.S. today, we’re still going down the shitter because of the growing income disparity. A latin american styled future for good ol “murka” is becoming more likely by the day.

    Joe. T,

    Where the hell did you get that idea from, seriously?

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  89. Rain And –

    Not feelin’ how you say her face is weird.

    Also, what tats?

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  90. I think she’s gorgeous, but someone mentioned that she has fake tits — I took another look at the photo and indeed they do look fake — and that ruined her for me.

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  91. “NOW, the costs of thuggery are indeed lower. Personal retaliation is much lower, Patronage networks much greater (it’s hard to construct violent patronage networks in hunter-gatherer societies without money or any real goods other than what you carry with you). It’s why women like thugs, almost universally.”

    But previous to this, as I pointed out earlier and agree with, you implied that women would have evolved to seek a man who was tough and virile, but not one who would take on unnecessary risk. Women want to be protected by a man; they don’t want undue violence hurled at them as a result of their mate’s actions.

    I just think the use of the word thug is incorrect here. On the fringes of society, like the ghetto, women will be attracted to thugs out of necessity and lack of choice.

    Thug implies a guy out looking for a fight. Tough guy is better; that implies a guy that can handle himself if need be.

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  92. we’re still going down the shitter because of the growing income disparity.

    I don’t consider things like that an existential problem because institutional / economic problems can take care of themselves within a generation.

    But things like population replacement are forever, absent a pushback and a reversal.

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  93. Wocka –

    From looking around me for about the past 30 years and seeing who is dating whom?

    From trying to pick up and flirt with attractive Latinas in both Anglo bars and clubs in the DC area as well as Latino joints? From seeing all of my successful white friends who cared to join me strike out in an identical manner?

    From actually living in Puerto Rico for two years and noticing how we “gringos”, as a class, were almost always socially marginalized with women, even if we had money, status, etc.?

    BTW, Puerto Rican culture is a little bit different from Mexican/Central American culture, but not by a lot. The differences are much less than the differences between either and North American culture.

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  94. Are you talking about the shifting racial and culturally demographic of this country?

    I thought that you were implying the immigrants were going to bring more savagery with them.

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  95. Chuck, exactly, that’s what I mean.

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  96. I’m talking about both. The violent crime that comes with the immigrants is bad in and of itself, but in the big scheme of things, it’s only a nuisance.

    But the shifting racial and demographic trend is a much more serious problem, because it means the extinguishing and replacement of one people by another, should the trends continue.

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  97. This woman is very gorgeous.

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  98. Isn’t it nice how both of our major political parties are hellbent on importing these guys to America by the tens of millions?

    But immigration helps the econ…. heh, just kidding. No need to go back there.

    Happy New Years everyone.

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  99. “it means the extinguishing and replacement of one people by another, should the trends continue.”

    The question I have to ask is, what “people”, exactly, are being replaced?

    Aren’t “white” Americans really just an amalgam of a lot of groups who were once considered very different racially, ethnically, and culturally?

    So, now the numbers of darker-skinned people are increasing, relatively. It’s the browning of America.

    But, since “white” America initially was a partially forced, and very artificial construct, I don’t think we have any justification to lament the loss of anything, since what is being lamented was never quite solid and distinct in the first place.

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  100. Hey Joe T.

    Well I’m glad that you understand that a Puerto Rican is not a Mexican is not Colombian.

    As a Latino living in New York City, I can assure you that Puerto Rican women dating Blacks and Whites, and marrying them is extremely common. And I’ve met many people who are the products of unions between all kinds of Latinos and Blacks and Whites. (unfortunately for Asian guys they’re the ones who are assed out here)

    You striking out in P.R., might be a personal thing. I’d also like to know more about these DC latinas that you and your friends are running into. You also mentioned that you see them in bars and clubs…they’re probably low quality latinas anyway.

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  101. Joe, that’s a very nihilistic attitude. But I’ll leave it there. Happy New Year.

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  102. whiskey – but I just said I like tough guys…it was all roissy’s fault…

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  103. That’s not nihilistic, its reality. This isn’t a racially static society like Asia. Future America won’t know that this is problem, just like we’ve completely forgotten the troubles the Irish and Italians faced.

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  104. I once saw this move is a girl I was involved with. I can’t remember the name, but it was some Harrison Ford movie made in the 90’s, I think based on a Tom Clancy novel or something. Two interesting things happened during this movie. First, a dude sitting behind us kept on pushing his knees into the chair of my girlfriend. I turned around and told him to stop and he did. Second, during the movie there is a scene where the wife of Harrison Ford tells him all she wants him to do is kill the bad guys, because they were threatening her family.

    After the movie my girlfriend told me that she liked the scene where the wife told Harrison Ford just to kill the bad guys, that it turned her on. But what turned her on even more was when I told the guy behind us to stop pushing into her chair.

    We ended up fucking all night. She was truly a crazed nympho that evening, loving how I defended her at the theater, during a movie which depicted raw masculine protectiveness.

    Women respond with their pussies to the most basic, primal forces.

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  105. Smiler, I said I like tough guys. And I do like. It’s a big difference from this to get involved with a lowlife,

    maria, it helps to have a clearer picture of what you consider a “tough guy”. do you mean a white collar law-abiding man of average muscularity who shirks from physical fights but knows how to effectively manage a group of 20 office underlings and isn’t afraid to tell his girlfriend to shut up when she’s giving him shit? or do you mean a guy who works in a job like bouncing or law enforcement and has been in a lot of bar fights in his life?
    there is greater overlap in temperament and personality between the bouncer types and the thuggish criminal types. if it’s bouncer types you like, then you are not much different than the women who hook up with gun runners.

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  106. Wocka, USA is way more racist.

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  107. Wocka –

    they were latinas of all socio-economic groups, from low-class (but cute) ones in Salvadoran bars in Arlandria (a heavily Central American neighborhood of Alexandria), to educated Colombians in much more upscale places.

    In PR, I noticed that among the more upscale circles I hung with, there was a bit of a stigma about being a gringo. (And I’m not even a typical “Anglo” gringo – I’m 7/8 Italian and 1/8 Austrian, albeit light skinned and almost red-haired. Lots of people think I’m irish because of my coloring.)

    I definitely found that I wasn’t the only guy being subject to this stigma… Gringos are a dime a dozen in San Juan. I just found that attractive PR girls were much more interested in PR guys. They would flirt with me a little, but it never went anywhere.

    The stigma was never directed rudely, it was always polite, and often with a smile and a subtle undercurrent of humor. A lot of it seemed to be implying (though almost never openly in so many words) that “gringos” were more awkward, couldn’t dance, and were just generally less “sexy” than Latin men.

    Cuban women are a *little* better than Mexican, Central American, and PR women, I’ve found. (I don’t want to overstate this, though.) I actually dated a gorgeous Cuban-American girl, as a college freshman, who I found out told all her friends and family that she had a huge crush on me. The Cuban chicks in PR seemed more open, too.

    I think the reason for this is that European-looking Cubans almost militantly see themselves as “white”, whereas PR people, Mexicans, Central Americans, etc. are very conscious of their non-white background.

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  108. I find it interesting that someone would be stigmatized in PR for being white. So what? I mean, PR, like all of Latin America, is a shit hole of complete economic and political failure. If they stigmatize you for being white it is because they know instinctively that you come from a superior society, culturally and intellectually. You are better than they are and they cannot except that. It is a historical fact that for the last 500 years the European has dominated the world. The rest of the world hates us because of this, because they know they are inferior. And when I talk about Latin America, I am not talking about the old Spanish hierarchy. I am talking about the indigenous peoples who were little more than pre-historical savages when the white man showed up. The same is true for that shit hole of a continent Africa. Let them all die of AIDs and civil strife. The human race does not need their inferior genes anyways.

    So fuck all you third world peoples. Your women are ugly anyway. Give my blond hair and blue eyed babes over your skanks any day.

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  109. “accept” for “except” above

    Like


  110. Wocka –

    Yes, I realize that in NYC, there is a huge phenomenon of lower-class PR and Dominican women intermarrying with African-Americans, to the point where in some places (such as the South Bronx), their respective cultures, musical styles, dialects, and politics have almost fused.

    But it should be noted that many of the Latinas (and Latinos) who do this “interracial” dating and intermarrying are very aware that they have substantial African roots to begin with. And many of these people with black “raices” (I’m being objective here — this is not a racist observation) are at the lower end of the socio-economic pecking order.

    For instance, in PR salsa and Dominican merengue (as well as possibly in Colombian cumbia), you often hear a male singer praise the sexiness of his “morena” or “negra”. Why would they use those words so much? Obviously because they are very attracted to darker or black women, or because they see them as sexually available.

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  111. on December 31, 2008 at 5:13 pm Comment_Violence

    In a general sense…..

    somebody in pre-historic society didn’t need to kill people to be violent… he could be a hunter and kill animals. Even dangerous animals in a fool attempt to impress women.

    So that particular attraction button was easier to press in pre-historic times. You and your friends can risk your necks killing a mammoth with stone tipped spears!

    It’ll get you tons of chicks(if you survive).

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  112. The Aztecs and Incas were a lot more advanced than the rest, but still they were nothing compared to the European civilization at the time.

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  113. Newsflash to those who think these guys are going to be fuck toys in in some Mexican prison: Guys like them run prisons in Mexico and they don’t take any shit either from the cops or military either. They kill and behead people and they probably killed the former Mexican Minister of the Interior just because he was a nuisance. These guys are powerful and wealthy and chicks dig that. Always have, always will. She probably though it was edgy and cool to hang out with criminals like that. Well, she is paying for that.

    Why is Latin America such a dumpster, anyway? Any theories?

    Like


  114. looks like an episode of Weeds gone wrong

    her actual BF not bad-looking http://bit.ly/iQIF

    and if he’s giving her this:

    Sinaloa is home to some of Mexico’s most powerful crime families. A “narco culture” of bulletproof trucks, lavish clothes and gold-plated guns dominates its streets. In this environment, the girlfriends of gangsters have become a subculture — buchonas — identified by diamond-studded finger bling, fake breasts and expensive dresses by foreign designers.

    the appeal is not hard to see.

    How do we know this guy a “jerk”? Some “lowlifes” are very charismatic… not defending their line of work, just sayin.

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  115. in a deep, ego shaking sense, this is essentially true. whoever does the choosing, writes the rules which the chosen must follow to get what they want. since women’s eggs are scarcer and pricier than men’s sperm, women do the choosing.

    In Afghanistan they don’t. Men are masters of violence. Violence trumps great booty.

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  116. chuckYeah women love the bad boy, but they aren’t fueled completely by their hinderbrain. Most are revolted by guys who are too violent or extreme

    Correct Sir. Women want a man who is willing and can protect them. It’s the major most women want a tall man.

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  117. “In Afghanistan they don’t. Men are masters of violence. Violence trumps great booty.”

    Maybe, but “coalition” forces in Afghanistan now are bribing warlords and their armies with Viagra.

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  118. roissy: a guy who can defend and protect a girl if necessary. very simple (to say).

    Like


  119. I find it interesting that someone would be stigmatized in PR for being white. So what? I mean, PR, like all of Latin America, is a shit hole of complete economic and political failure. If they stigmatize you for being white it is because they know instinctively that you come from a superior society, culturally and intellectually. You are better than they are and they cannot except that. It is a historical fact that for the last 500 years the European has dominated the world. The rest of the world hates us because of this, because they know they are inferior. And when I talk about Latin America, I am not talking about the old Spanish hierarchy. I am talking about the indigenous peoples who were little more than pre-historical savages when the white man showed up. The same is true for that shit hole of a continent Africa. Let them all die of AIDs and civil strife. The human race does not need their inferior genes anyways.

    So fuck all you third world peoples. Your women are ugly anyway. Give my blond hair and blue eyed babes over your skanks any day.

    Yeah, it’s your superiority that turns the women off, not the bitter, angry entitled self-righteous attitude. Nope, not at all.

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  120. roissy: a guy who can defend and protect a girl if necessary. very simple (to say).

    “Back To The Future” had a line that summed it up perfectly. Marty is desperate to get his future mom to go out with his o m e g a future dad, but she’s too obsessed with the alpha “Calvin Klein” who had stood up to the brutish Biff. She tells Marty, “I think I man should be strong. So that he can stand up for himself, and protect the women he loves.” The line itself and the delivery are so perfect, I get chills watching it.

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  121. “So why are you still busting your ass?”

    Running drugs isn’t easy, trust me.

    – MPM

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  122. on December 31, 2008 at 5:44 pm Turkeybaster115

    ROISSY

    Women are increasingly dating children, in a bizzar sociological twist. They are technically pedophilic, but its happening now at an alarming rate:

    http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-tustin-high25-2008dec25,0,3176815.story

    Rest of the pics here:

    http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewPicture&friendID=40476141&albumId=295075

    Roissy, please make this a seperate topic for discussion.

    Thanks

    Like


  123. D.F. you’re a cunt

    Markuu, “why is south america such a shit hole?” economics plain and simple.

    Joe,

    If a latin girl gives you shit about being a gringo, she is most certainly testing you to see if you’re vanilla just like stereotypical soft white guy. Of course I don’t know you, so I could completely wrong. But my guess that your game needed to be bolder. So what I’m saying is, being white skinned isn’t a bad thing in Cuba, D.R. or P.R., (actually it’s NEVER a bad thing), it’s when you don’t bust the stereotype of being meek that you’re dead in the water. A dark skinned latin man can grow up in america, come back to the islands and be called a gringo if he isn’t a bold son of a bitch.

    Interesting that you brought up the use of the word “morena”. Its just a term of endearment that can apply to anyone who isn’t pale. In song when you’re talking about a dark skinned person you would refer to them as “mi negro” or “mi negra”. Like anywhere else, being a white latin american has many advantages. So even though black is beautiful is romanticized in song, white is always best.

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  124. many losers go their whole lives and exit straight into the dirt without ever having been on a date, not to mention felt the joy of being loved by someone.
    that you don’t see them because they’re holed up in their dank gloomy basement apartments doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

    Like, maybe, half the readers of this blog?

    Peter

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  125. I mean, PR, like all of Latin America, is a shit hole of complete economic and political failure.

    Chile and Argentina are about 90% white. So is Uruguay and the southeastern corner of Brazil around Curitiba. Those are the biggest semi-decent areas of Latin America. But they are still as backward (relatively speaking) as Portugal, Spain, (Southern) Italy, and Greece were before they joined the EU in the ’80s. And so are Russia and the Ukraine.

    Southern and Eastern European populations have large enough smart fractions (in terms of g) to be succesful. There is just some dumb primitive cultural shit in the way.

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  126. This isn’t a racially static society like Asia. Future America won’t know that this is problem, just like we’ve completely forgotten the troubles the Irish and Italians faced.

    The Irish and Italians had higher average IQs and less crime propensity, compared to Mexicans and Puerto Ricans. How do we know? We look at the Mexicans and Puerto Ricans who have been living here as long, or longer than, the Irish and Italians.

    If you didn’t know that there’s a sizable Mexican-American population that’s been here 3, 4 generations, and that they continue to “underperform” compared to any white group — then you don’t know jackshit about what you’re talking about.

    Women are increasingly dating children, in a bizzar sociological twist. They are technically pedophilic, but its happening now at an alarming rate:

    The article you linked to is about some 23 year-old female coach and some buff, hunky high school jock, who’s probably 16 or 17. He’s not a child — a child couldn’t whoop your ass and steal your girlfriend.

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  127. I agree with Wocka, I know plenty of white guys who vacation in Latin America so much specifically because they get laid so often. Problem is, the women there LOVE swagger and bold, macho men. The white guys I know who go are not stiff and uptight like the gringo stereotype and they do fine. None of them is a great dancer but a few can hold their own and at least keep a beat. I don’t know you personally Joe T. so I don’t know why you may have been having problems down there.

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  128. The Irish and Italians had higher average IQs and less crime propensity, compared to Mexicans and Puerto Ricans. How do we know? We look at the Mexicans and Puerto Ricans who have been living here as long, or longer than, the Irish and Italians.

    Italians and Irish had less crime propensity? Have you ever studied the Irish and Italian mob histories in America? 5 Points? Gangs of New York? The Westies? Sicilian-American living conditions and crime waves? And it wasn’t the smartest of the smart that immigrated here, it was the lower, less educated and less intelligent classes. The best people in those countries had no reason to leave.

    The biggest factor is willingness to assimilate. Sicilian, Irish and Mexicans all started out in shitty, poor, crime-infested and gang-ridden neighborhoods and were riddled with social pathologies when starting out in this country. Italians and Irish people though both wanted to assimilate and because they looked white were better able to. Mexicans, especially after the rise of Cesar Chavez and the adoption of radical 60s riot ideology began increasingly stubborn about rejecting assimilation. Irish people looked white and already knew English. Italian people looked white and had to learn English because society wasn’t willing to turn bilingual to pander to them the way society currently does for Hispanics. They had to learn English to function in America. Today’s latinos won’t assimilate, and worse, don’t have to (“press 2 for Spanish please”). This keeps their communities insular and reinforces their pathologies.

    The biggest problem we have now is we allow too many immigrants to enter, and because of political correctness we don’t encourage them to assimilate, thereby losing many of their social pathologies. The problem with IQ fetishists is that they become myopic and start and end every analysis with IQ and g.

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  129. Irish and Italians were crime-prone at first — what I’m referring to is a genetic propensity that doesn’t change quickly over time. The Irish and Italians now are much more law-abiding. Mex-Ams haven’t made as much progress, probably because they have different profiles at genes related to personality and intelligence, compared to Irish and Italians.

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  130. I’ve occasionally wondered on the role of women in street gangs back here in the States. I found a comment from Sudhir Venkatesh,who wrote about in Freakonomics. He’s now a professor of sociology at Columbia. He answers:

    Q: What role do women play in gangs? Are they just for sex? Do they ever get to be in charge? Are they low-level peons?

    A: In the 1970s and 1980s, female gangs were independent organizations in places like New York, Chicago, Cleveland, and Milwaukee. They tended to be non-criminal, and usually distributed common funds to their members for day care, rent, groceries, and other needs of single mothers. On occasion, they might have engaged in petty fighting, but not often. They were largely political outfits and functioned like social service agencies in ghetto communities that lacked services.

    But toward the end of the ’80s, they became wrapped up in drug trafficking — and, just like gender subordination in corporate America, they were under the thumbs of males in the gang who controlled the economy. They were indeed “peons” who were given the lowest level jobs by men — e.g., watching out for cops, holding drugs, cleaning up after gang parties, prostitution — and they had no power at all. No surprise that the female gangs dissolved over time.

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  131. Ricky Raw: Before you know it we’ll be hearing “To here this message in English, press 2 now”.

    Seems the growing Latin population here in the Florida that can’t be bothered to learn English. I’m buying a house owned by some PRs where there are 3 generations living in the house and only the children can speak English. I had to have my realtor translate questions to the home owner in over 2/3’s of the houses I looked at.

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  132. And it wasn’t the smartest of the smart that immigrated here, it was the lower, less educated and less intelligent classes. The best people in those countries had no reason to leave
    Preeech T. I try to tell people this but they just don’t get it. When your at the top or even at the bottom but things are going well(ie.welfare programs), there is no reason to leave. The reason don’t have a large number of Swedish, French or Japanese immigrants coming into the country today is…..

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  133. One does not learn a new language overnight. At the least, it takes 2-3 years of complete imersion to speak a new language fleutnly. Don’t forget that many of the recent Lationo imagrints work a lot as well as have families, so they don’t have time to pour over books for 4-6 hours a night.
    Italian people looked white and had to learn English because society wasn’t willing to turn bilingual to pander to them the way society currently does for Hispanics. They had to learn English to function in America. Today’s latinos won’t assimilate, and worse, don’t have to (”press 2 for Spanish please”). This keeps their communities insular and reinforces their pathologies

    There were German and Italina(?) language newspapers in this country for the German and Italian immigrants who didn’t speak, read or write English. Within 2-3 generations, most groups assimilate culturally.
    If anything, the Latinos will become a cultural sub group who can function within the dominate group.

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  134. Chic, beat me too it.

    But the thing is, it’s not that these people aren’t willing to assimilate. It’s that it’s pretty hard for lower class people to learn anything when they’re working like animals 7 days a week. And the fact that it’s difficult hard for adults to learn a new language anyway. I get pissed the fuck off when i try to buy something in Chinatown, but then I understand what these people are going through.

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  135. The Irish and Italians now are much more law-abiding

    Yes, they ARE much more law-abiding NOW, but only after generations of assimilation into the American lifestyle and value system and moving up classwise and buying homes outside of their single-race rental tenement communities. In the 20s, America severely restricted incoming immigration, meaning less immigrants to absorb, and the rise of the nascent labor movement and home ownership by Irish and Italians all helped those races immigrants. In addition, there was no modern welfare, ESL programs or 60s radical left identity politics in play that celebrated resistance to immigration for those groups. Irish and Italians (and Jews) wanted to assimilate badly, to the point people would even Anglicize their names. Mexicans are fiercely resistant to assimilating, learning English and adopting American cultural habits. Every single thing in the world is not solely explainable through IQ. Sure IQ plays a role, but it’s not the be-all, end-all magic explanation to social ills you try to portray it as.

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  136. IQ is a horribly flawed measure.

    You can discount the argument of anyone who uses it strongly as support; it’s similar to arguing that “because the world is obviously flat…”.

    Even if a conclusion is correct, they got there by a biased measure. There was a great study I read a few years back giving English speaking individuals from an IQ test that was designed by and translated by Germans. Needless to say, they were stupider than Germans.

    Cultural and linguistic issues matter for IQ, as do things like random chance, mood, prior learning, and so on. Suffice to say, it’s not a good argument. Likewise, anyone talking about genetic differences in latino populations regarding these things should do a bit more research into genetics.

    However, T is onto something, as usual. I would concur assimilation seems to be the real issue, given the evidence. Individuals who will not conform to US cultural norms and learn English will always, on average, do worse in the US.

    Big fucking shock. It’s like moving to Germany and thinking you don’t need to learn German to work for a company like Mercedes-Benz or Deutsche Bank.

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  137. To further illustration the role of cultural assimilation, look at the Sicilians back in Sicily compared to the ones assimilated into American culture. Crime, extortion, assassination and corruption and petty theft are still huge problems in Sicily, where they have the same genetic stock and IQ genes as the assimilated Sicilian-Americans here. If genetics were such a big determinant to behavior, more important than assimilation into American values, why is Sicily still so crime ridden but crime among assimilated Sicilian Americans with similar genes so much lower?

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  138. You know.. that being said… I LOVE Univision… especial the game shows and the music videos. =)

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  139. chic: If anything, the Latinos will become a cultural sub group who can function within the dominate group.

    the interesting thing will be to see what happens when that “sub group” becomes an actual majority. demographics along the southern border states and in FL and CA are changing very rapidly.

    i wonder if/when spanish will become an official second language for our country (like canada with french/english)…

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  140. jackson: “It’s like moving to Germany and thinking you don’t need to learn German to work for a company like Mercedes-Benz or Deutsche Bank.”

    actually, it’s likely you wouldn’t these days. since we americans (with the help of the british, i guess) are too lazy to bother with learning another language we’ve essentially forced the world to do business in english. it’s the universal language now in multi-national corporations and transactions.

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  141. Ack, now i gotta.

    T’, excellent point.

    But I don’t understand something here…who is it that’s not assimilating here, is it the adults that are fresh off the boat or the children that they have in the country? (it can’t possibly be the latter)

    Someone steer this back to the hot mexican bitch and those cro-magnons she’s with.

    happy fucking new year.

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  142. But the thing is, it’s not that these people aren’t willing to assimilate. It’s that it’s pretty hard for lower class people to learn anything when they’re working like animals 7 days a week.

    It’s hard, but not impossible. My mom used to work from 8 AM to 1 Am daily, two jobs, but learned English. because back then, you had no choice. No one created a bilingual environment for her. You either learned English or you didn’t eat. It’s now become politically incorrect or even evil to demand people learn English. And among many Hispanic communities, there is a distinct pride that comes from refusal to assimilate. Hopefully later generations, sick of being at the bottom of the totem pole will break this cycle, but right now it’s a definite problem.

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  143. Wocka – both. There is genuinely strong aversion to assimilation within the hispanic community. In many cases, neither parents nor children wish to learn English; one could argue the children merely parrot the views of the parents and that the incentive to deviate is high. This is true, but it is happening less quickly than with other immigrant groups.

    Dirty Blonde – you do, if you want to work for them in Germany in any capacity other than something like “janitor”. And I am speaking from first-hand knowledge on this topic.

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  144. Wocka
    Chic, beat me too it.

    But the thing is, it’s not that these people aren’t willing to assimilate. It’s that it’s pretty hard for lower class people to learn anything when they’re working like animals 7 days a week. And the fact that it’s difficult hard for adults to learn a new language anyway. I get pissed the fuck off when i try to buy something in Chinatown, but then I understand what these people are going through.

    Cosign

    Once you wonder off Canal Street, it’s easy to forget your in America.

    I wonder how many people here(besides PA,Vad, and Jakillai) have studied and/ or speak a foreign language fluently ? After two years of college level study the most the average person can do is read a menu, ask for directions and pretty much speak like a toddler.
    I’ve never understood why so many Americans are so hateful towards people who can’t speak English. Now if most Americans were bilingual(like the young Dutch) we would have room to talk.

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  145. Maria, when women say they like tough guys it means they like guys who are low-lives and beat up other men and themselves. Women as a general rule GO NUTS for thugs, it’s the exception that eschew violent men rather than the rule.

    Dalyrmple has written on how his educated nurses always chose guys who abused them, often at the workplace.

    It’s all over the place, from Drew Peterson’s appeal to the young women in Ohio and his engagement, to OJ and his girlfriends, to Scott Peterson’s fans, to the women who run after bad boys and get murdered.

    Women do indeed like the thugs, and that preference for thugs runs the gamut depending on background for various celeb-lite douchery to straight up criminals.

    Chuck — women LOVE thugs. See Drew Peterson, OJ, this woman, Johan Van Der Sloot, etc. And no, you can’t have “toughness” that is noticeably DISPLAYED without THUGGERY, and it is the thuggery that women go nuts over. Consider the genuine tough guys, such as the men of Easy Company, such as Dick Winters. They got no attention whatsoever, as do genuine tough guys (working in physically demanding environments). Meanwhile guys who smack people around (including or especially women) have no shortage of women around them. This is true of wealthy female celebrities, including Madonna/Sean Penn, etc.

    Joe T — America’s culture has been Anlgo-Celtic-African. Replacing it with Latin Americans and their culture is likely to result in a nation culturally between Venezuela and Colombia with the atmosphere of personal violence everpresent as a result.

    Comment_Violence — it was the extinct Neanderthals that hunted big dangerous game with spears. Humans hunted smaller game with arrows, in groups, taking less risk. It’s why they survived and Neanderthals did not.

    Markku — Latin America is a dumpster because of the lack of male cooperation. Too much domination by Alphas, with no space for betas getting women and building things. Infrastructure, rule of law, technology, lack of constant, grinding violence, general socio-economic equality giving social peace (note I said general) requires family formation by betas.

    Chic — tall men are just bigger targets in real violent places. Knives are the great equalizer for close-in fighting.

    Maria — untrue, it’s the ability (perceived) to dominate other men that turns women on. There are plenty of genuinely tough guys, they often have “soft” demeanors and don’t boast, etc. They usually don’t attract many women. Decorated vets now are invisible to most women.

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  146. T: You’ve made the point I was going to make, so I’ll leave it at that. Society no longer compels people to assimilate.

    Turkeybaster115: Regarding the woman arrested for sex with underage guys – well, you know what they say. If you can’t be an athlete, be an athletic supporter. And “support” the athletes, she did – with her lips and tongue.

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  147. T Every single thing in the world is not solely explainable through IQ. Sure IQ plays a role, but it’s not the be-all, end-all magic explanation to social ills you try to portray it as
    cosign
    How long have I been saying this.
    Mexicans are fiercely resistant to assimilating, learning English and adopting American cultural habits.
    T, I think this is very debatable. Hispanic immigrants were buying homes when the money was there. Home ownership is much an Americans cultural value. Hispanics are also small business owners. Again small business ownership (was) is a very important part of the American cultural fabric. I don’t think Mexicans as a group are resistant to learning English. I’ve had countless Mexicans ask me to help them pronounce English words. Some try to string together an English sentence the best way they know how but have idiots laugh at them for their accents and grammatical errors.
    T, does it bother you to hear Latinos speak Spanish?

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  148. Chic — tall men are just bigger targets in real violent places. Knives are the great equalizer for close-in fighting.
    True but height is intimidating( and size). Men and even some women can talk trash the guy who is 5’6 120 lbs office guy but will think twice before trying it with the 6-4 240 strapping contruction worker.

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  149. Whiskey have you noticed how much OJ’s last girlfriend resembles his murdered ex wife?
    Sick Sick Sick!

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  150. Even if a conclusion is correct, they got there by a biased measure. There was a great study I read a few years back giving English speaking individuals from an IQ test that was designed by and translated by Germans. Needless to say, they were stupider than Germans.

    Cultural and linguistic issues matter for IQ, as do things like random chance, mood, prior learning, and so on. Suffice to say, it’s not a good argument. Likewise, anyone talking about genetic differences in latino populations regarding these things should do a bit more research into genetics.

    (i) How the f*** do East Asian groups outperform whites on western-designed IQ tests, then? Oh, and I’m supposed to believe it’s a random coincidence that those countries have been the greatest economic success stories of the last half century? (And at least in the case of mainland China, the high IQ scores PRECEDED economic advancement.)

    (ii) Germans tend to have a slight advantage over the English even on intelligence tests designed by English speakers, so the study you refer to says less than you think it does.

    (iii) Yes, culture matters too. (“Random chance,” on the other hand, really doesn’t when you’re talking studies of large groups; the individual measurement errors will tend to cancel out. This is basic statistics.) And right now, we are utterly failing to assimilate Mexican immigrants in large numbers into a First World-compatible culture. Does that mean it isn’t possible? Not necessarily, though the underperformance of even fourth-generation Mexican immigrants that “agnostic” referred to gives one much cause for concern. But anyone who gives a damn about our civilization should want to close the southern border at least until we’re obviously assimilating the Mexican immigrants already here.

    IQ is not sufficient for success. (Consider China in 1975, or North Korea today.) But, given our current technologies, it is necessary. Dismiss it at your peril.

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  151. It’s now become politically incorrect or even evil to demand people learn English.
    Really?
    And among many Hispanic communities, there is a distinct pride that comes from refusal to assimilate
    Which communties? I’ve never come across any Hispanics in my age group whom were born here and can’t speak English. I’m not saying they don’t exsist, but I’ve never come across them. Do you have an article?

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  152. Jackson Likewise, anyone talking about genetic differences in latino populations regarding these things should do a bit more research into genetics
    Aren’t indigenous Latinos related to East Asians?

    Dirty Blonde- As long as the majority speak both both languages I don’t have a problem with Spanish being a second language.

    But I don’t understand something here…who is it that’s not assimilating here, is it the adults that are fresh off the boat or the children that they have in the country? (it can’t possibly be the latter)
    FOB most do a sort of limited assimalation. They may never know and enjoy this country the way their children will. I don’t think people give culture enough credit in understanding human behavior.

    American children born and raised abroad have cultural identity issues too.

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  153. Chris (i) How the f*** do East Asian groups outperform whites on western-designed IQ tests, then?
    *goes looking for a switch*
    Chris, since when have you started using four leter words.

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  154. She’s a stick with fake boobs. Those lowlifes can have her.

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  155. @jackson: I guess we’re both probably right.

    i have firsthand experience as well, having lived in europe. had no problems getting job offers from multi-national corporations before i knew the language – my english was sufficient. and a good friend of mine just moved to germany to take a job with a big corporation without knowing a word of german. they’re learning it so it will be easier to live and get around, but it’s not necessary for the job.

    that said, i’m sure there are also corporations which require fluency in the local language.

    oh, and @chic, sorry if i was being confusing. didn’t mean to imply that you had a problem w/ it… was just offering the possibility up for thought – wondering if folks think it will occur at some point

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  156. Wow, I have seldom read so much uninformed comments on this blog. First off all, I don’t really know much about Central America. But as a general rule, most Latinamericans want to be white. A lot of mestizos consider themselves white, even if they aren’t. But that could be different for central american mulatos, who perceive themselves as black. Class distinction is very strong in Latinamerica. Most US males have serious problems distinguishing a chana, chola or low class woman from a proper señora/señorita. I have seen enough stupid gringos ending up with low class trash. Also, middle and high class latinamerican females unlike gringas only put out sex within a longterm relationship, one nigh stands are the exception except in a few cosmopolitan capital cities.

    Finaly, this women are increasingly becoming pedophilic is BS too. Young adults having sex with sexualy mature teens are not pedophiles. The psychiatric limit for pedophilia is around 13, but it varies according to each individual subject. (For example, sexual attraction towards an undeveloped 12 year old girl would be pedophilic, but attraction to a fully developed 12 year old girl wouldn’t be. Gannon advocates an AOC of 14, because at 14 all teens have reached full sexual maturity and know what they are doing).

    Rather few women are attracted towards male teens, because women look for status, something teen boys lack.
    But it’s still normal. For males on the other hand, attraction towards teen girls and young females in their early twenties is the default mode.

    Almost all true pedophiles are HOMOSEXUALS. There is a clear relationship between homosexuality and pedophilia. It’s only faggets who want to screw little boys.
    Happy new years to everyone, I’m off to party.

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  157. T Every single thing in the world is not solely explainable through IQ. Sure IQ plays a role, but it’s not the be-all, end-all magic explanation to social ills you try to portray it as

    cosign
    How long have I been saying this.

    You can say it and say it but that won’t make it true Chic.

    IQ doesn’t explain all but it does explain most of the differences between groupsin:

    criminality
    productivity
    lack of corruption

    And for areas that IQ doesn’t explain it all, the difference doesn’t go in the direction that PC would prefer.

    For example, among black people and white people with the same IQ, black people are more criminally violent.

    Saying IQ means nothing is just silliness when all the non-IQ evidence shows the same thing. Mexico is a shithole because it is full of Mexicans. Want the United States to become a shithole? Keep importing Mexicans.

    Blah, blah, Italians and Irish. Show me any cultural accomplishments on par with Renaissance Italian art and science then we can talk about how Mexicans have the same bright future as Italians.

    Basically, there is 0 evidence that Mexicans are capable of assimilating and 0 evidence that they would if they could and the PC line is that the other side hasn’t proven their case. Ridiculous.

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  158. For example, among black people and white people with the same IQ, black people are more criminally violent.

    You just said that IQ matters, and that differences in IQ explain differences in criminality. Then you turn around and say that blacks and whites of the same IQ have DIFFERENT LEVELS OF CRIMINALITY. If IQ was so determinant of criminality as you say, shouldn’t similar IQ mean similar criminality? Do you realize you just contradicted yourself in the space of one paragraph?

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  159. I know I’m speaking to (mostly) deaf ears here, but as I’ve said in other posts, I’ll say it again: using evolution and genetics to explain complex human behavior is complete bunk, and a waste of time. In fact, it’s even worse than that; it’s dangerous. In the early 20th century, there was similar enthusiasm for this line of reasoning, and it led to eugenics, which led, in part, to the musing and carousing of a certain individual by the name of Adolf Hitler. If genetics, as influenced by evolution, so neatly described the reason people act the way they do, then history wouldn’t be so difficult to understand, and the future wouldn’t be so difficult to predict. I’m a biologist by training, so this is perfectly obvious to me, but I can see how others might not see it. This month’s issue of Scientific American addresses the difficulties inherent in the field of evolutionary psychology:

    http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=four-fallacies

    To this I will add one more point to ponder. If people really are the hapless victims of their genetically expressed desires, then are ALL human behaviors and attitudes a product of this, or just some of them? If they all are, then we’re stuck with the bad along with the good, i.e. it can be argued that racism exists because it confers some evolutionary advantage, so there’s nothing we can do about it. Is there anyone here willing to go so far as to agree with that statement? If not, then you have to explain why evolution has influenced some human behaviors, but not others. Good luck with that exercise in futility! To me, it’s abundantly obvious that the opposite is true: even though people have drives for fulfilling the need for things like food and sex, we all choose how to go about fulfilling those needs using rational principles that make sense to us. We have the ability to decide when to pursue these drives and when not to. In other words, beliefs and attitudes determine how people interact with one another. And fortunately, beliefs and attitudes can change.

    I have no doubt that Game works. But I also have no doubt that evolution as we currently understand it can’t be used to explain why.

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  160. Mexican-Americans who have been here 4 generations speak English, they attend the same schools (w/o bilingual), they eat the same food, watch the same TV shows, etc. Many Puerto Ricans from 4-generation families don’t even read or speak Spanish.

    Here’s another key point: when East Asians and Ashkenazi Jews came here, they didn’t integrate themselves, spoke different languages, lived in immigrant ghettos, were viewed by the mainstream as dirty foreigners, denied entry to the Ivy League, etc. — the whole sh-bang.

    However, both groups have an average IQ above Europeans, so they didn’t go on crime sprees. Yeah, there’s a Jewish gangster here and there, but overall, Jewish and East Asian immigrants committed hardly any crime.

    The Scandinavian immigrants to the old Northwest also didn’t want to assimilate — the Norwegians were fiercely against it, trying to keep things as Norwegian as possible, including linguistically with Norwegian newspapers. But — no huge crime wave from Norwegian bumpkins.

    Desire to assimilate may play some role, but when you look at every ethnic group that moved here, how much havoc they caused is best predicted by their average IQ.

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  161. I hope no one is using the Bell Curve book as serious reference for this IQ/Socioeconomic stuff, the R2 values for almost all of their nifty charts are horrendous. Most of those R2 in the appendix are less than 0.1
    That’s some pretty serious weaksauce.

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  162. Show me any cultural accomplishments on par with Renaissance Italian art and science then we can talk about how Mexicans have the same bright future as Italians.

    At one point even the Italians were yet produce Renaissance Italian art and science. You do realize the Renaissance period was immediately preceded by hundreds of years of extreme backwardness called the Dark Ages, where the people were probably even more primitive and violent than the cultures you currently say have no bright future? If the barbarian hordes could eventually make something of themselves, I think the Mexicans have a shot.

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  163. Do we have evidence that this beauty queen was fucking one or both of those guys? maybe she was just using them for money? Of course, it she refused, they might rape her, so who knows.

    Feminists want female freedom in every way. Free choices unlimited for females are terrible for our society. I’d like to see somone publicly have the balls to admit it. All the movements to give women more freedom have hastened our decay. At some point in the distant future, it will be taken away by force.

    If laws do not change soon, it is up to all of us men to bring back the process of shaming women for making bad choices. You date a criminal? You cheat on your boyfriend? You have multiple abortions? You are socially isolated and shunned by good society. That is how it should be done. If good actions are not enforced formally, they must be enforced informally, and by force in extreme circumstances. It is our society at risk.

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  164. not to mention felt the joy of being loved by someone.

    My niece and nephew love me. 🙂

    “I think I man should be strong. So that he can stand up for himself, and protect the women he loves.” The line itself and the delivery are so perfect, I get chills watching it.

    Maybe it’s me, but wouldn’t hearing such a statement fuel misogynistic thoughts in men because it creates the image of weak, frail, useless and secretly ungrateful women who leech off men for everything?

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  165. Mexican-Americans who have been here 4 generations speak English, they attend the same schools (w/o bilingual), they eat the same food, watch the same TV shows, etc. Many Puerto Ricans from 4-generation families don’t even read or speak Spanish.

    These are superficial pop culture assimilations. I’m talking about core values, value on education, abandoning social pathologies, etc. The Hispanic community, much like the black American communities has a culture of pathologies including self-segregation, anti-intellectualism (studying and speaking proper are “acting white”) and victimology/ethnic-based politics. In regards to these core internal values, Mexicans are not assimilating. Heather macdonald writes plenty of articles explaining the fundamental ways hispanics don’t assimilate.

    Superficial assimilation doesn’t matter. For example you can have a Muslim student wearing designer Western clothes, attending Western university and drinking a Coke on his way to do a suicide bombing. But these Muslims were not assimilating when it came to core values.

    And there were MUCH more than a few Jewish mobsters “here and there.”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Mafia
    There was a full blown Jewish mob that worked hand in hand with the Italian mobs. The difference is that the Jewish mobsters refuse to indoctrinate their children into the mob culture, they pushed their children to assimilate into WASP culture and educational institutions. They valued assimilation more than Sicilians did.

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  166. If the barbarian hordes could eventually make something of themselves, I think the Mexicans have a shot.

    T, the theory is that because of the low average IQ of the average Mexican, they’ll never simply be able to make something of themselves regardless of the amount of work put into building up the country. In other words, they lack the intellectual capability on average to do better.

    OTOH, when one compares Haiti and Jamaica and Barabdos to each other, one would seem to think that Haiti is under performing given the spread between their respective GDPs per capita. The best way to see if Mexico underperforms is to determine if there are other countries similar to Mexico that are performing better vis à vis Mexico.

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  167. dirty blondechic, sorry if i was being confusing. didn’t mean to imply that you had a problem w/ it… was just offering the possibility up for thought – wondering if folks think it will occur at some point
    no problem

    T You just said that IQ matters, and that differences in IQ explain differences in criminality. Then you turn around and say that blacks and whites of the same IQ have DIFFERENT LEVELS OF CRIMINALITY. If IQ was so determinant of criminality as you say, shouldn’t similar IQ mean similar criminality? Do you realize you just contradicted yourself in the space of one paragraph?
    You beat me to it T. You beat me to it.

    a side question.
    Steve, please explain how condom usuage IQ are linked.

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  168. So how don’t we know that those values just reflect a person’s IQ — anti-intellectualism, shunning education, trying to look like a high-school dropout. All sounds like the person isn’t very bright. For every such person who has the potential to get through college but just wants to look badass, there are 99 who really are that stupid.

    Personality plays a role too, as I said. Criminals tend to be high in Extraversion, Neuroticism, and low in Agreeableness and Conscientiousness.

    I think it’s misleading to look at organized crime, lumped in with opportunistic crime. At some level, all corporations and states are mafias. What we want to control is rape, mugging, bar-room brawls that lead to murder, etc. By these measures, Jews and East Asians were (and are) very well behaved.

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  169. Agnostic, you were not born yesterday. Have you not read about the East Asian gangs in San Fransico and NY? We may not see them on the news everynight but they exist and are a problem. They think is, for the most part they terrorise each other and Asian-Americans don’t air their dirty laundry. Something African-Americans once believed in as well.

    T -Hispanic community, much like the black American communities has a culture of pathologies including self-segregation, anti-intellectualism (studying and speaking proper are “acting white”) and victimology/ethnic-based politics.

    T, all groups do this. People who have something in common(often beyond race) tend to group off. The separation is not always racist in its intent but it’s how human beings operate. Most black men with PhDs will not be best friends with poor uneducated whites from the trailer park.
    Speaking standard English is only important when in a business setting or when speaking with someone can’t speak “your” dialect or second language. When two Asian, Latino or Africans are having a conversation in a language which isn’t English while walking down Jones Ave, is it really of concern to me?

    Just curious:T & DA, can either of you speak Haitian Creole?

    Like


  170. ::Watches as Aggie picks up the goalposts and moves them away from T::

    Love them weasel words.

    Speaking of, any reply for my debunking of your bonerometer bullshit? I can list all the cites I dug up just for that, as well as Bailey’s repeated censure by his peers for professional ethics violations.

    I have a feeling you don’t give a shit about them, being more interested in ideological posturing rather than science. I guess you just can’t ditch those undergrad years in English and Anthropology so easily.

    Here’s a hint. Just because it goes against the conventional wisdom of both the masses and academia doesn’t mean that it ain’t also a load of flyblown horseshit on a rickety dungwagon.

    I have a feeling you’re just going to stick to making bad jokes about me sticking my head into an oven or choking to death on my vomit, though. Mores the pity.

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  171. cn

    “Steve, please explain how condom usuage IQ are linked.”

    Is this difficult? Sex with a condom on doesn’t feel as good but it decreases the risk of pregnancy and disease. Feels good is right now. Disease is probabilistic and in the future. Pregnancy is the same thing. Low IQ people make worse decisions w/r/t to things that have negative long run payouts but positive short run payouts. Condom usage is a perfect example of this.

    T,

    “At one point even the Italians were yet produce Renaissance Italian art and science.”

    And before that there was the whole Roman empire thing. Ya know, legal structure and organized military being the big advantages over their enemies. But barring those two minor things, Mexicans look like a good bet to do as well as Italians in the United States (of course, out of all whites, Italians do basically the worst).

    You can’t simply say “look at Italians and Irish” unless there is some reason to believe that Mexicans are as capable as Italians and Irish. There isn’t. There’s actually very good evidence that those groups have no ability to thrive in a modern society.

    “You just said that IQ matters, and that differences in IQ explain differences in criminality. Then you turn around and say that blacks and whites of the same IQ have DIFFERENT LEVELS OF CRIMINALITY. If IQ was so determinant of criminality as you say, shouldn’t similar IQ mean similar criminality?”

    Really?

    Black people are more criminal at the same level of IQ than white people.

    People (within the same race) of higher IQ are less likely to be criminals than people of lower IQ.

    There is no contradiction between these two facts.

    The real world isn’t binary; it’s probabilistic. More than one factor can predict an outcome. Look at Roissy’s slut post. All those factors predict a woman being a slut. The fact that he names more than one factor isn’t a contradiction.

    Like


  172. ::Watches as Aggie picks up the goalposts and moves them away from T::

    ?

    Like


  173. Just curious:T & DA, can either of you speak Haitian Creole?

    I’m one of the few in the first generation-US born Haitian community who doesn’t speak Créole. Mind you, I’m able to understand much of it when family members speak, I make use of some of the vocabulary, but I usually reply back in English. Also, sadly, I must admit that I took French for four years in high school and for a few semesters in college, yet sadly, I’ve forgotten most of it.

    Interestingly, I have a disdain for ebonics or so-called African-American Vernacular English, but I have a bit more sympathy towards Haitian Creole. Mind you, as a descendant of Caribbean immigrants, I’m rather biased…

    Like


  174. “Agnostic, you were not born yesterday. Have you not read about the East Asian gangs in San Fransico and NY? We may not see them on the news every night but they exist and are a problem.”

    CN,

    Numbers matter.

    Like


  175. DAwhen one compares Haiti and Jamaica and Barabdos to each other, one would seem to think that Haiti is under performing given the spread between their respective GDPs per capita

    The three people share most of the same genetics. Blacks brought over from West and Central Africa. Culture plays a huge role in human behavior.

    fabianeven though people have drives for fulfilling the need for things like food and sex, we all choose how to go about fulfilling those needs using rational principles that make sense to us.
    cosign

    Like


  176. For fuck’s sake, people, I think this blog is starting to lack in literacy. To clear up a few things:

    1 – I said that some Latin American cultures are more resistant to assimilation, not that it was impossible. In fact, I referenced a rate of assimilation above. I expect it will happen, just won’t be as quick as some other situations of similar character in the past.

    2 – Fabian hits the nail on the head here (and thanks for the link to the article). The bottom line is that it’s not easy to explain the vast majority of things, and people are seduced into explaining them with things that correlate well.

    Only, correlation is not causation. For instance, there’s an extremely strong correlation between the population of ducks in a specific region of Minnesota with the price of GM’s stock over the past 10 years.

    I defy anyone to claim causation there.

    If you torture data long enough, it will confess; beware of anyone claiming correlation. With regard to the IQ thing, given that IQ is as much about expressing what you have learned and what you have been taught (in terms of nurture, not nature, to throw those terms around), then you aren’t going to be able to separate some idealistic “inherent” potential from realized practical potential for people. Measuring IQ is like looking at a symptom of a disease, but not the disease itself.

    3 – The commentary on criminals here is totally fucking laughable because of confirmation bias.

    What we are really discussing is Criminals Who Get Caught.

    What we don’t know are the traits of those who are sophisticated enough to get away with crimes and never get caught. Why? Because we don’t know they were criminals.

    Like


  177. there is some reason to believe that Mexicans are as capable as Italians and Irish

    So if the Mexicans aren’t as capable as Italians and Irish people, then what are they vis à vis these ethnic groups?

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  178. How did the I.Q debate start? That’s been so worked over, for decades. The fact that I.Q. tests are virtually a taboo topic in the U.S.A. tells you all you need to know.

    Look, girls don’t much care for smarts. They greatly prefer big, dangerous men to just about anything else. Period.

    Do you ever recall seeing crowds of women held back by the police at the Math Olympiad?

    I recall a 19th century author asking this question: “When did a woman ever show her library to you?”

    Add to this, woman’s almost complete lack of respect for logic, (I suspect they just don’t get logic the way most men just don’t get colors.) and you realize that if it weren’t for hormones, women just wouldn’t be very important to men.

    Once you accept that, you have to decide if you want to try to be big and dangerous (or their social equivalents) or just chill out when it comes to women. After all, you really don’t need a woman or women around you at all times to be happy. Even Roissy might discover, with his insightful mind and adventuresome spirit, that there are other pursuits than women.

    If you want children, then most men just suck it up and marry some fertile woman, but they would be crazy to expect much more than a mother and house keeper.

    Been there and done it. And seen it.

    Anyway, this blog site is supposed to describe how to game girls. Get on with it!

    Like


  179. Steve, how can you get numbers when people won’t open up to the police or outsiders? How often do you see Asian-Americans on talk shows discussing issues which affect Asian-Americans or dumb shit ??? The closet I can recall is seeing Lisa Ling on Oprah discussing eyelid surgery(crease) among Asians.

    Steve google the Chinesse Triads for starters.

    btw, most Black male violence is targeted at other black males. read your local police blotter or a police blotter in a city with many Blacks. Unless you are an addict, the chances of you catching a bullet are indeed small. They get 6 months and probation for attempted murder of another black man. Sometimes there is no time served and the guy is released for BS reasons. If a Black man “pops a cap” into a White man, there is no sentence of 6 months and probation type nonsense. He’ll be locked up for life.

    DAInterestingly, I have a disdain for ebonics or so-called African-American Vernacular English, but I have a bit more sympathy towards Haitian Creole
    YOu know the two languages are from the same vein right?Haitian Creole is a mixture of French and ….

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  180. Damn, this conversation really degenerated while I was away. And few of you people have even set foot in Latin America or know how to say more than “mas cerveza, por favor,” so drop the know-it-all references to the region and its inhabitants. I work on Latin American political issues for a living. I married someone from South America. I lived in Colombia for years, and have spent lots of time in Bolivia, Peru, Ecuador, Mexico, and Guatemala….and I wouldn’t make such ridiculous, universalizing statements about any of them (except, perhaps, about Bolivia, but that’s another story….).

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  181. Damn, this conversation really degenerated while I was away
    You must be new around here.

    Thor, please tell us about Bolivia.

    *smiles broadly, sits up str8, and folds hands like a school girl*

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  182. “*smiles broadly, sits up str8, and folds hands like a school girl*”
    Although you are beautiful, I doubt you still can pass for the real thing. Maybe your little sister?
    Haiti is worse than Bolivia by the way.

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  183. YOu know the two languages are from the same vein right?Haitian Creole is a mixture of French and ….

    It’s hard to explain, but for some reason, one has the expectation that because black people live in the US, they should simply be assimilated dark-skinned versions of white people. Thus, it extends to the belief that African-Americans should speak English, and not some half-assed bastardized version of English. But as I’ve stated, I grew up in an immigrant household, so native-born African-Americans are sometimes lumped in with WASPs and Scots-Irish as “Americans”.

    Mind you, while I don’t hate Creole because I feel it’s an sizable chunk of Haitian culture, I’ve always felt that the decision to teach Creole in schools and use a bastardized English phonetization process was simply foolish and lazy on the part of policy makers. Haitian schools should only teach French.

    Like


  184. Thanks

    Gannon I have a 30 year old sister who would be perfect for you.

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  185. Thus, it extends to the belief that African-Americans should speak English, and not some half-assed bastardized version of English.

    Most of us do but we speak differently to each other. Sort of like the Chinese Vendor on Canal street who speaks English to me when selling me a pair of gloves, but turns to her brother and says in Cantonese or Mandarin to place my gloves in a shopping bag.

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  186. Jackson:

    “Only, correlation is not causation. For instance, there’s an extremely strong correlation between the population of ducks in a specific region of Minnesota with the price of GM’s stock over the past 10 years.

    I defy anyone to claim causation there.”

    IQ and violence (and all other social pathologies) isn’t a stock price and hem-line correlation. It’s a (relatively) straightforward cause and effect. IQ measures ability to think clearly. Everyone who has met humans knows that some are smarter than others. Everyone knows that people who are less smart do dumb things more often. Mix in people who are impulsive and violent (some people are more of this than others) with people who are less intelligent and you get really dumb crime.

    Mexicans average 90 on IQ tests. I’d speculate that the Mexicans who come here average lower than that. These are people who are long-term trouble.

    All the anti-IQ arguments are obvious smoke screens. Look at the world. Low IQ countries are horrible places to live and full of random violence. High IQ places are civilized and safer. Low IQ places have men who push women’s get wet buttons. High IQ places have women who push men’s get hard buttons. Letting women choose men for generation after generation breeds violent, shitty cultures because women pick anti-social thugs. Forcing women to depend on men to survive breeds humans who are less criminally violent (and more successful at violence outside the tribe) and more culturally accomplished.

    Our culture has shifted from one where women were forced to pick a man to survive and breed to one where women can breed on her own and not have to worry about support. We are on our way toward breeding a shitty society. At the same time we are importing people by the millions who have only demonstrated an ability to create a shitty society (so much so that they all want to leave it).

    Chic,

    “Steve google the Chinesse Triads for starters.

    btw, most Black male violence is targeted at other black males. read your local police blotter or a police blotter in a city with many Blacks.”

    Yes, yes, organizing criminal enterprises (along with organizing every other type of enterprise) is correlated with IQ, you’ve convinced me. Random violence is negatively correlated with IQ.

    If all criminals were like the triads, we’d be fine as a society. There is no profit in killing a man for his wallet. If you’re organized you can simply take a quarter of what’s in it every week. The guy gets to live and keep most of his money, the gangster gets to live high. If some moron tries to rob the guy, he’s stealing from the gangster, so it works out for the guy getting robbed too. If you do this and have office buildings, it’s called government.

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  187. Sort of like the Chinese Vendor on Canal street who speaks English to me when selling me a pair of gloves, but turns to her brother and says in Cantonese or Mandarin to place my gloves in a shopping bag.

    Cantonese or Fukienese on Canal Street, if you’re curious.

    Chinese in America who speak Mandarin are pretty rare (but have gotten more common over the last 10 years).

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  188. DA, has there ever been a country where 300 million people all, talk, eat, work the same way… In terms of multiculturalism, this country has come a long way and in some ways is very accepting of those who are different.

    How about those small pocket group of whites who live counter to mainstream America like the Amish. Why do the Amish insist on speaking an archaic German dialect among themselves?
    GWB does not speak standard English yet we made him president.

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  189. Forcing women to depend on men to survive breeds humans who are less criminally violent (and more successful at violence outside the tribe) and more culturally accomplished.

    Foolish Reasoning: Aren’t Latin American (and other low IQ) societies the type where women are more dependent on men for survival due to the low status of women and machismo present in their societies?

    Most of us do but we speak differently to each other.

    Mind you, we can both agree on the fact that Chinese is a language, but we are arguing over the status of ebonics as a legitimate language that people can speak or “patois” of English that should be shunned socially.

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  190. Steve JohnsonHigh IQ places are civilized and safer

    Does this correlate with the fact that in most European countries, owning firearms is against the law.

    BTW, I saw a couple of fist fights in Netherlands and very heated arguments leading to fisticuffs in France. In Sweden, I saw neither of the two.

    Human beings are human beings Steve. Sometimes they become angry and act violently.
    Cantonese or Fukienese on Canal Street, if you’re curious
    Thank you.

    @Gannon-If it helps, my older sister is wrinkle free and has a hip-to-asS ration rivaling that of Salma Hayek’s before she had the baby.
    j/k

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  191. DA, ebonics is not a language, it’s an English dialect. Gullah is an African-American language.

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  192. If you want children, then most men just suck it up and marry some fertile woman, but they would be crazy to expect much more than a mother and house keeper.

    I am uninterested in raising random children; I’m only interested in raising smart ones. This alone makes the “just marry some fertile woman” algorithm worthless to me, without even considering the fact that I’d hate to spend the rest of my life with someone I couldn’t have interesting analytical conversations with.

    Does this correlate with the fact that in most European countries, owning firearms is against the law.

    Yeah, that’ll show those uncivilized, gun-toting Swiss…

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  193. I said most Chris not all. You can add Finland to your list darling.

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  194. And before that there was the whole Roman empire thing.

    Yes, which the barbarians were in no way responsible for, and which the barbarians destroyed.

    Ya know, legal structure and organized military being the big advantages over their enemies. But barring those two minor things, Mexicans look like a good bet to do as well as Italians in the United States (of course, out of all whites, Italians do basically the worst).

    Dude, the barbarians DISMANTLED the Roman empire and its innovations, they were not a direct extension of it. It’s political and legal infrastructure were not left standing after the barbarians were done with it. That’s the whole reason the era afterwards were called the Dark Ages. They were not of the same culture, IQ or genetic background as the Romans of the Roman empire. They were not genetically related to the Roman empire. Trying to portray the barbarians as a direct continuation of the Roman Empire’s traditions and innovations is intellectually dishonest. The barbarians were more brutal, uncivilized, violent and low IQ than the current Mexicans, yet they were able to eventually to produce that great Renaissance art and those civilizations you brag about. Using your earlier logic, because those Barbarians were of low IQ and class and were not responsible for any great works of art or civilizations like the Roman Empire, they had no chance of producing anything great ever. Yet they did, didn’t they?

    Black people are more criminal at the same level of IQ than white people.

    People (within the same race) of higher IQ are less likely to be criminals than people of lower IQ.

    There is no contradiction between these two facts.

    Wait, so now that I pointed out the inconsistency you are acting like you were saying all along that your point about people of different IQs having different criminality only applied to people within the same race? You’re moving the goalposts to try to save your argument. For a refresher, he’s what you said earlier:

    IQ doesn’t explain all but it does explain most of the differences between groups in:

    criminality
    productivity
    lack of corruption

    You specifically said that different IQs explain why DIFFERENT RACES are subject to criminal behavior. You said nothing about IQ differences within a single race.

    Anyway, I’m not saying that IQ is meaningless or doesn’t matter. Just that it is not the cause of everything, you can’t analyze every world problem in an intellectual vacuum just using IQ as your sole metric, quite often IQ is a correlating symptom of a bigger cause.

    Using your example, if blacks and whites of similar IQ have different criminality, then that right there iis proof that IQ is obviously not everything. If it was as important as you say in determining criminality and progress, the mere fact that the black and the white in your example had the same IQ would be enough to give them similar rates of criminality. That means that IQ is not enough of an explanation, that there must be a cultural component at play too. Such as a culture of entitlement from having a welfare state, a culture of illegitimacy and self-segregation, a culture of anti-intellectualism, all of which can combine to contribute to increased criminality, lack of productivity and increased corruption.

    Anyway, I’m off to party for New Years. take care everyone!

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  195. Bolivians are poor, stupid, ugly, and angry. And I say this as someone who loves Latin America, and particularly loves Latin American women.

    Gannon: I’ve never been to Haiti, but I don’t consider that Latin America. I consider that Liberia or Zimbabwe.

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  196. Thor, Haiti is located in the Caribbean and shares the island with the Dominican Republic.

    Bolivians are poor, stupid, ugly, and angry. And I say this as someone who loves Latin America, and particularly loves Latin American women
    *looks for fire extinguisher*

    Why? What happened?

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  197. Have a good night T.

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  198. T:

    One correction, the *Western* Roman Empire. The Eastern Roman Empire of the Byzantines plodded and plotted along for nearly a thousand years after the Western half fell. The Dark ages were pretty localized.

    I do also note that the Byzantines were pretty damn cultured and advanced, following their Hellenic antecedents in that tradition, yet who here now would consider the modern Greeks particularly cultured, possessors of a well organized society or advanced in matters of the mind? I say this as confirmed lover of Ouzo, feta, kalamata, and Retsina.

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  199. whiskey
    “Maria, when women say they like tough guys it means they like guys who are low-lives and beat up other men and themselves.Women as a general rule GO NUTS for thugs, it’s the exception that eschew violent men rather than the rule.”

    Then I’m an exception.
    besos, happy new year!

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  200. wow… I was looking for the same from past one hour… thanks for the post, it’s really great.

    – Sohail
    http://iMobile.us

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  201. Thor,

    Having been all over South America myself… I regretfully have to agree about Bolivia.

    Though I love Argentina.

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  202. Dude, the barbarians DISMANTLED the Roman empire and its innovations, they were not a direct extension of it. It’s political and legal infrastructure were not left standing after the barbarians were done with it. That’s the whole reason the era afterwards were called the Dark Ages. They were not of the same culture, IQ or genetic background as the Romans of the Roman empire. They were not genetically related to the Roman empire. Trying to portray the barbarians as a direct continuation of the Roman Empire’s traditions and innovations is intellectually dishonest.–T

    The Dark Ages is an epithet crafted by those who are convinced they are steeped in the light and wish to denigrate the great effort it took to sustain peoples in a vast political vacuum. The Germanic tribes did not dismantle the entirety of the Roman empire’s innovations, one of which being the Catholic church. They were also related to the Romans due to their Indo-European heritage. Besides, the eventual coalescing of Roman and Germanic traditions permitted the foundation of a system of government that comfortably fits within the overall framework of Western civilization and, therefore, it is not intellectually dishonest to see an ongoing continuity. It’s not like the Huns took over, after all.

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  203. If good actions are not enforced formally, they must be enforced informally, and by force in extreme circumstances. It is our society at risk.

    Yes, instead, let’s go to a system where women marry beta males, and guys like Roissy simply go underground and bang married women who are frustrated with their beta husbands. Better yet, maybe it is better for beta males to stay single than to marry women who aren’t attracted to them and will cheat on them with the first available option that develops.

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  204. Never-married guys over 40 are gay.

    No, it’s just that of the never-married guys over 40, the gay ones are the only ones women can see.

    Millions of men are lonely nerdy losers who will never know intimate touch: the proverbial 40-year-old virgin. They are the men women don’t see.

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  205. this is the zenith of suckdom

    Like


  206. on January 1, 2009 at 3:17 am Cannon's Canon

    Wow I got epicly pwned tonight out of nowhere. I will share my shame with the message board tomorrow. Still not my worst all time outing on new years but i didn’t see this one coming; feel the same as watching my stocks this year. Bleh. still the long weekend to pick up slack and january 20th to prey upon the susceptibilities of loose liberal whores. beatnuts forever!

    Like


  207. Sorry to get back to that Mexican beauty queen, but I’m still confused about some things.

    Couldn’t that woman have found herself a nice ultra wealthy businessman instead of those lowlife, ugly, drug dealing hoodlums? Arent’ there wealthy businessmen in Mexico that don’t deal drugs? No offense, but those men in that picture look like they should be either cleaning toilets or picking fruits. If they’re so wealthy and powerful, why can’t they dress better, or at least shower?

    I read last year that Mexican businessman Carlos (Slim) Helu is richer than Bill Gates. Surely there must be a few more men in Mexico like him. So I still don’t understand why this woman went with these two chumps. After all, ultra rich men are also in a position to boss others around.

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  208. A couple of points

    1) The kind of women who prefer jerks to nice guys are, typically, jerks themselves – they want a man who’s a bigger jerk than they are to “tame” them.

    2) The drug boss she was dating was very very very rich – which is probably why she was dating him.

    3) that dude next to her – the guy on her left (right side of the pic) in the white shirt – is it just me, or is his outfit kind of gay?

    Like


  209. I wonder how many people here(besides PA,Vad, and Jakillai) have studied and/ or speak a foreign language fluently ? After two years of college level study the most the average person can do is read a menu, ask for directions and pretty much speak like a toddler.

    Heh, count me in. I first started learning English at the age of 9 in school. I have also learned Swedish and German in school, starting from ages 13 and 14, respectively. During the past few years, I’ve learned some Russian but I only know about 500 words. I’m able to hold my own in a casual conversation both in Swedish and German. If I know five ways to say something in Finnish, my native tongue, I know two ways to say it in English, one way Swedish, and 0.5 ways to say it in German.

    School is the best place to learn a foreign language because of the discipline imposed. As an adult when one has many duties, it is harder to find the necessary time and energy for an effort, the rewards of which are not very quick to materialize.

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  210. “this is why men were the ones to invent the concept of justice and codify it in the framework of civilized institutions.”

    diamond in the rough

    you live evo-bio, the reductionist path.

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  211. “These are superficial pop culture assimilations. I’m talking about core values, value on education, abandoning social pathologies, etc. The Hispanic community, much like the black American communities has a culture of pathologies including self-segregation, anti-intellectualism (studying and speaking proper are “acting white”) and victimology/ethnic-based politics.”

    This is either empirically false or purposely unfalsifiable, depending on how far you want to push it.

    When you compare Hispanics and whites with the same IQ scores, Hispanics are MORE accomplished than whites. They earn more money, pursue more education, and do better in life. (See The Bell Curve for this information)

    The take-home message here is that Hispanics have MORE productive cultural traits than whites, they are just, sadly, a lot less smart. On average, they can’t learn the complex skill-sets that are rewarded in the modern world economy as well as whites.

    If your theory were correct, we would see the opposite. Hispanics with an IQ of 110 would be just as smart as whites with an IQ of 110, but would be lazier and more “anti-intellectual”. They would be less likely to attend college, they would pick less challenging majors when they did, would drop-out quicker at the challenge, would be more likely to underachieve and work dead-end blue-collar jobs, would more likely drop out of the labor force to screw and watch TV, and would be less likely to put in extra hours at work. This is also predicted by an “affirmative action” theory.

    And this is not what we see, T.

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  212. Why not make this IQ debate productive? Any comments about gaming dumb vs smart women?

    How about a discussion on how do you figure out if a women is smart or dumb. In a bar? in an office setting?

    For example, I tend to assign higher intelligence to a person who has broad knowledge about the world, not just details of his/her own narrow world. But, using that criterion, very few women come across as smart, so, I think that criterion is not very effective for women. They just don’t care abut the things men care about. Any ideas?

    C’mon, remember, Roissy is watching this debate. It’s his blog site. Let’s make him proud. Let’s not mess up his house.

    Like


  213. Field Report: Sarge Test One
    Jan 1 2009
    Mu’Min/Obsidian, reporting

    In light of the subject matters of this thread, I thought it would be a good time to post this “field report”.

    I have just returned from one hectic, *wild* night of *Sarging* w/friends. My intention was to apply the principles and techniques covered in the Mystery Method and The Game; however, and this has been suggested by fellow forum members such as PA and others, I have seriously had to re-consider my Sarging Strategy.

    The evening began w/something of a last minute meltdown: my friend and “wing”, Ricky, told me that the DJ they hired for the party flaked at the last minute, making party goers quite angry; they were squabbles and the like that broke out, and we decided to hit a few other spots while the night was still young.

    Our first spot, a typical midsized Philly inner city niteclub, had a mixture of folks, mainly Black and White. Some of Ricky’s peeps were there, and just as I was beginning to rope in a pair of White sisters (one of whom kept calling me “sexy” in my ear as she stood next to me while I was seated comfortably in a large chair), a huge fight breaks out over at the bar. Seems like, as per usual for such places, a guy has trouble keeping his hands to himself, and goes to laying them on another Man’s girl. One thing leads to another, and guns are brandished. The party comes to an abrupt end. I should also mention that potential gunplay came *this close* to jumping off, *despite the fact that armed security was on the premises searching both Men AND Women*.

    However, my efforts at Peacocking seems to have been effective.

    We leave that venue to enter another, a popular after-hours club where we entered through the “back door”. Interestingly enough, in keeping with the theme of this thread, the spot is heavily Latino in theme, predominately Puerto Rican. Ricky and the other member of the team, Eddie, are cool with the top guys, but don’t know everyone in attendance.

    This is important because, based on my years of direct observation of PRs and Hispanic folk in general (Cubans, Dominicans, Mexicans, Colombians, etc.), they tend to be *intensely territorial*-ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO BLACK MEN & LATINA WOMEN. In fact, upon our arrival into the club we were greeted by the very term “Morenos”, and I’ve been around long enough to know not to dive in without first assessing who’s who and who’s connected to who, directly or indirectly. PRs tend to go to places where they are connected to each other somehow; and my suspicion would be proven correct later, as virtually *every* Latina-particularly the hottest ones-was hooked up with a PR guy. Given our previous brush w/gunplay earlier in the evening, I thought it best to leave well enough alone. Eddie left his hammer in the crib.

    This gave me a chance to calmly watch Inner City Social Dynamics at work, keeping in mind Strauss and Mystery’s thoughts, ideas and writings, while at the same time contemplate future strategies especially insofar as Sarging was concerned. I’ve come to the conclusion that PA and others who have recently commented on related matters are ultimately right-frequenting such spots is at best, an above-average risky affair. Not great for Sarging in the sense Strauss/Mystery speak of. Where I was last night, people can and do get killed, regularly. The cops were out in full force, in fact, making numerous gun charge arrests.

    Back to Peacocking for a moment: in a sea of guys wearing Timberland boots, oversized turtleneck sweaters, Polo shirts & baggy jeans, I was easily the best dressed Man on the scene, and several Ladies let me know it. One Latina pixie in particular stared me down for a good 5 minutes, even when I deliberately looked away for a minute and came back, there she was. I decided not to advance things; I didn’t know the club.

    The vibe is completely different in an Inner City environmnt clubwise than many of my White Brothers may realize. It is truly an Alpha Male thing. You see a Female you like, you simply grab her up and dance. The End. What Roissy’s saying in this thread is 100% true. Not only have I seen it all my life, but I saw it confirmed, for like the gazillionith time, again. And that’s not even including my own cousin, killed some 15 years ago by a rival drugdealer, and his two Women arguing over his corpse as to who was his One & Only “Real” Bitch.

    Now, please don’t get me wrong. I’m 40, NOT GAY, single, never married, & I can handle myself and have put Men in ICUs for messing w/Women dear to me in the past. I’m no stranger to the sight of blood or death. Having said that, I am coming to the realization that I may be a bit too “Gentlemanly” to comfortably exist in aforementioned environments. I got into Game to more easily enjoy Women, not constantly have to weigh the prospect of whether I want to engage some fool in a fight to the death. And its really starting to dawn on me that these venues, the ones that are closest to me all my life, are little more than just that.

    Besides, it would ruin my nice suits.

    So, even though we’re scheduled to hit a new string of clubs Fri and Sat night, I’ve been giving more thought to “calibrating” how I’m going to Sarge. Its gotta be a better way to do this. Besides, at the risk of sounding elitist, a lot of the Women I saw last night were really Low Class. I’ve always aspired to Date & Screw above my Pay Grade.

    So, we finally got done around 4AM. No numbers, no kiss-closes, and definitely no “fuck closes”. But I did learn a lot.

    Comment & Reply, Invited.

    Salaam
    Mu/The Obsidian

    Like


  214. Mu,

    …and that’s why I sarge in Old City.

    Like


  215. chic:

    I wonder how many people here(besides PA,Vad, and Jakillai) have studied and/ or speak a foreign language fluently ?

    Jakillai … that’s certainly … new.

    I’ve studied lots of foreign languages but I don’t speak any of those fluently, or much at all, really. I’m only fluent with English (and Finnish) and that’s because I got it from TV, BBSs and video games. They did put me in English classes in school but I protested by never doing anything (not the only subject for that).

    For me it’s impossible to learn a language by studying. It’s not exactly surprising that no one outside immigrant neighbourhoods really learns languages in America since there’s no immersion.

    Does this correlate with the fact that in most European countries, owning firearms is against the law.

    No. Finland, for example, has gun laws that are very lax by American standards and lots and lots of guns. Finland is also the most violent country in Western Europe (also more violent than white America) if measured by murder etc rates but the rate for firearm violence is still low.

    BTW, I saw a couple of fist fights in Netherlands and very heated arguments leading to fisticuffs in France. In Sweden, I saw neither of the two.

    Sweden is another country with lots of guns – not quite Finnish or American levels but still lots of guns by European standards.

    Like


  216. Jakillai … that’s certainly … new.

    Chic skimped on the vowels. That’s the first thing I noticed about Finnish, when I flew Finn Air (best airline ever) It’s all vowels. Words like kaaaleeiaakaaaj. Ok, I made that one up, but could have fooled everyone except you and Markku.

    It’s the inverse of Polish, which is big on consonants. Polish words: wrzeszcz; pszczoła; skrzat; wszcząć; chrząszcz; trzcina; źdźbło; z; and, w.

    Anyway, native speakers of English probably don’t realize that English is one of the easiest languages in the world, and certainly the easiest of European languages. So there is no excuse for anyone who lives in the US and doesn’t learn it.

    For comparison: in Polish, there are 17 grammatical forms for the number 2:

    – dwa
    – dwie
    – dwoje
    – dwóch (or dwu)
    – dwaj
    – dwiema
    – dwom (or dwóm)
    – dwoma
    – dwojga
    – dwojgu
    – dwojgiem
    – dwójka
    – dwójki
    – dwójkę
    – dwójką
    – dwójce
    – dwójko

    And eight such ways for any adjective or noun to be declined, depending on its function in the sentence.

    Like


  217. That’s the first thing I noticed about Finnish, when I flew Finn Air (best airline ever) It’s all vowels.

    When I first saw Finnish, it looked slightly similar to Japanese romanji…

    native speakers of English probably don’t realize that English is one of the easiest languages in the world, and certainly the easiest of European languages. So there is no excuse for anyone who lives in the US and doesn’t learn it.

    English is easy to learn due to lack of various specialized tenses when compared to other languages, but foreigners tend to find difficulty in pronouncing English words due to the lack of a standardized English phonics system. Unlike in French where the words look relatively close to their pronunciation, English has many words that don’t sound as they’re spelled, and some have argued that’s due to the lack of a “English Academy” to clean up the language…

    Like


  218. I’ll also add that as call-center employee for a large roadside assistance and road-lobbying firm (hint), I’ve noted that we serve a sizable portion of non-natives, and that most immigrants tend to speak enough English to communicate their need for service. Interestingly, the only immigrants that ask for speakers of their own languages Spanish immigrants. Otherwise, everybody else attempts to speak in their broken English or get a friend or family member to translate for them.

    Like


  219. English is not one of the easiest languages in the world. There are too many exceptions to the rules for it to be so.

    Superficially, it lacks the gender distinctions that French, German and Russian have, I’ll give you that. That same distinction would make Japanese easier yet, since it lacks even plurals.

    Once you get beyond the superficial, and here I can only speak to Japanese, it’s not quite so straightforward. There are levels of honorifics that are used in certain situations, depending on your status, and the status of those you are speaking to or about. That’s one reason the Japanese exchange name cards when they meet. Then you have the complexity of the written language. Did you know that the Kanji have different pronunciations, depending on their use?
    Even well educated Japanese have trouble with unusual names. Regional dialects aren’t dead yet, either. Some of those, for example Hiroshima-ben, are close to standard Japanese, but some dialects are like another language entirely.

    To speak any language well is non-trivial. My wife has lived here over half her life. She will never be truly flawless in English. There are too many exceptions. R and L give her fits. She cannot hear the difference. Phonetically, in Japanese, there isn’t any. Sherry and Shelly are the same word to her ears. It’s not that she’s stupid or deaf, but by a certain age, certain patterns are ingrained. Her vocabulary is at least high school level, and she can read and understand the newspaper seldom using the dictionary.

    I met a Japanese singer who could sing in accentless English, but that was a rare talent.

    My Japanese will never be good, but I can get by. People understand what I’m saying, and I can shop, eat, and travel with no problem. I lack the vocabulary to be considered fluent and I probably read at a third grade level. I will never put down anyone’s attempts at a foreign language.

    Like


  220. — English is easy to learn due to lack of various specialized tenses when compared to other languages,

    That’s correct. Not just tenses, but also noun genders and declensions. The tradeoff is that English is not syntax-flexible.

    — but foreigners tend to find difficulty in pronouncing English words due to the lack of a standardized English phonics system.

    That’s correct. English pronounciation and spelling can be bewildering. The vowel-sound nuances like beat/bit/beet. But that’s a minor niusance, given how otherwise easy the grammar is.

    — Unlike in French where the words look relatively close to their pronunciation,

    I don’t speak French but it’s not 100% phoenetic, as far as I can tell. Even simple words like “Jour” — why two vowels for one sound? In Romance (Spanish/Italian) or Slavic languages — which are much more phoenetic in their spelling & pronounciation — it woudl be pronounced in a more phoenetic way: H-oh-oo-r (span.) or Y-oh-oo-r (pl.)

    Or the name Pierre: why the darn final silent “e”?

    Like


  221. Here is anouther one: Bordeaux. Why not “Bordo”?

    Like


  222. English and French are both notorious for un-phonetic, extremely confusing spelling. German and Swedish spelling is much easier, Russian is even easier after you first learn a new alphabet and Finnish spelling is utterly trivial.

    Like


  223. Finnish looks like this: Määilmää oikkuuniinen väinttämöyssi ja Obama:nttalainen oippoipooi.

    But Polish looks like this: Wszcziewc w wodzie z sprzecom wkrzysostom kniegu.

    English is a relatively easy language, but the easiest language in the world is Chinese. The hardest, of course, is that inscrutable polysynthetic terror, French.

    Like


  224. Jaakkeli:

    For me it’s impossible to learn a language by studying.

    Studying word lists works very well for me. I simply don’t need very much practice in composing sentences. Vocabulary has always been the bottleneck.

    Like


  225. on January 1, 2009 at 12:26 pm M with the dot

    Mexican thugs, IQ and Finnish vowels?

    Yep, this blog is definitely a part of the Steveosphere.

    Like


  226. Steve Johnson,

    The worst performing whites are NOT Italians, but Baptists (usually Southern) of British/German descent. Italians have above-average high-school and college completion rates; the popular media makes it out like we’re all mobsters, probably b/c of the large number of elite-level Italian creative people (Coppola, Scorsese, David Chase, etc.). Also, Italians are concentrated in the Northeast, the best-educated part of the country. One of the interesting aspects of modern America is how today, Catholics make more $$$ than Protestants; a 100 years ago, it was the opposite.

    Like


  227. on January 1, 2009 at 1:55 pm Comment_Eternal_Now

    ****
    Saying IQ means nothing is just silliness when all the non-IQ evidence shows the same thing. Mexico is a shithole because it is full of Mexicans. Want the United States to become a shithole? Keep importing Mexicans.
    ****
    Technically, Mexico is a mess because it was an exploited colony of the United States and other Western Powers.

    http://www.mexconnect.com/mex_/history/jtuck/jtrevolution11.html
    ****
    Porfirio Díaz, the old dictator who had held power since 1876, was probably the most respected political leader on earth. Tolstoy called him a “prodigy of nature,” the German Kaiser awarded him his country’s highest decoration, Andrew Carnegie praised his “wisdom and courage” and even the progressive Teddy Roosevelt characterized him as “the greatest statesman now living.”
    ****
    He did what we wanted!

    ****
    Behind the glittering façade was another Mexico — one of poverty, illiteracy, exploitation and peonage. Though himself an Indian, Díaz was completely beholden to a European-descended elite and the country’s indigenous population was horribly oppressed. Major industries were controlled by foreign interests, the illiteracy rate was 80 percent, infant mortality averaged 439 per thousand, life expectancy was 30 years, 50 percent of all houses were classified as unfit for human habitation and in Mexico City 16 percent of the population was homeless. Yes, Díaz had brought about social peace — mainly through recruiting bandits into his dreaded rural police — but he had done so at a terrible cost.
    ****
    80% illiteracy, gotta maintain that underclass!

    ****
    Villa broke jail on Christmas Eve and was in El Paso when Huerta engineered the coup that overthrew Madero. In February 1913 Huerta staged a fake 10-day artillery duel with a fake rival, Felix Díaz, nephew of the old dictator. The battle was phony only in the sense that Huerta and Díaz were secretly in cahoots — the loss of life to civilians was all too real. Purpose of the spurious engagement was to create a state of confusion in which Huerta could seize power from Madero. Madero was deposed on the 18th and four days later he and his vice-president, José Pino Suarez, were shot to death after being removed from their jail cells. Nobody believed Huerta’s story that the two men had been killed in the crossfire when a rescue was attempted.

    A particularly sinister role in Madero’s overthrow was played by the U.S. ambassador, Henry Lane Wilson. An aggressive advocate of dollar diplomacy who was temperamentally drawn to Huerta — both were alcoholics — Wilson detested Madero and was involved up to his neck in Huerta’s consiracy to overthrow him.
    ****
    Woo-Hoo!

    I have little idea what was going on exactly, but the United States, and probably a lot of European powers, have been screwing up Mexico for years.

    But continue living in the Eternal Now, with no past and no future!

    Like


  228. Technically, Mexico is a mess because it was an exploited colony of the United States and other Western Powers.

    So was, for example, Finland. 150 years ago Mexico was the wealthier country of the two. The 20th century was brutal on Finland, but even after a record-breakingly bloody civil war, massive loss of territory and homes in WWII and paying war reparations that make Versailles look like a speeding ticket to the Soviet Union, Finland is looking much better than Mexico. What’s the mysterious difference?

    Like


  229. Chic — that assumption (height = intimidation) only works when there is a taboo against violence. It does not apply in places like the Philippines.

    I saw OJ’s girlfriend, a near duplicate for Nicole. Ick. As for bilingualism, there is no society in the world that has been successful in that route. Bilingualism = dual (or more) cultures, values, and loyalties. It’s been about as dynamic and successful as the Dual Monarchy.

    IQ vs. culture? I’m not sure you can rely on IQ as a predictor of population behavioral changes over small chunks of time (40 years) whereas Culture certainly can be used as a predictive measure. Both Black and White populations in the US (and in Europe) have changed radically in behavior over the last 40 years. That’s far too rapid for IQ but can accomodate rapid cultural shifts.

    Fabian — your error is first in assuming that evolution is morally based (it is not) and that it does not exert powerful pulls on the aggregate human behavior, and that secondly that humans are not very flexible generalists. Human behavior is very plastic, it had to be in order to adapt to lots of situations.

    I can attest to what T says is a pathology of anti-assimilation in Mexican immigrants. Unlike Ireland or Eastern Poland, Mexico is right next to the US and it’s media dominates Mexican-origin mind-space. I work with a group (aissfoundation.com) that works with (mostly Mexican/Asian) kids of IQs well over 140 or so. Check them out yourself. The social pressures on them to NOT study are huge.

    Joel is quite correct. Women avoid smart men like the plague unless they show high-testosterone danger preferences, like Xtreme sports. Smart guys must always hide their intelligence (women associate it with lower testosterone).

    Re Dark Ages: far less currency in circulation, almost no cities, heights of inhabitants about six inches shorter, than during the Roman periods 100-300 AD. Road and Acqueducts fell apart. No real learning and literacy confined to a few places in the Church.

    Mexico has been a mess since the Aztecs. Continuing with the colonial period, Santa Anna, and all the rest. Blaming the US (which came late as a major power) ignores the history about 1200-1865. After all, during the Mexican-American War, Mexican forces made huge initial advances and many feared Mexican conquest of New Orleans/LA.

    Like


  230. Sparks,
    Are you in Philly? Olde City is really a more Hipster-ish sort of spot downtown. Not *quite* my scene, although admittedly a far sight better than where I was last night.

    Just getting up, and thinking about this Sarging piece. Hmm. I’m in something of a dilemma here, because of the “many worlds” makeup I have: I still have a lot of sensibilities of my inner city upbringing, that kinda “shares space” w/the more Gentlemanly side of Mu, too. So its an odd thing to sort out, and I saw last night just how tough of a pickle this is gonna be.

    Could use suggestions/advice/insight/discussion on this point here…

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  231. Mu:

    You’ve got to find yourself some better venues. Seriously. There have to be some more upscale bars in Philly where hot women congregate and violence is not an issue. They may cater to a largely white clientelle, but some of the more educated sistas will frequent those venues too. I’d also start looking for places that cater to the university set. You’ve got Penn and Temple where you are, so there have to be bars where the students go. I think going to more upscale and/or university kinds of places will also take care of your problem of having only low class women to sarge. Being well read and articulate, I don’t think you should have any problem attracting any of the women at these places, no matter your blue collar situation.

    BTW once you start getting good, you can start concentrating less on bar game and more on working your own social circle. There are a few adjustments you need to make, but
    once you have put in enough approaches in the bar, working a small party becomes incredibly easy. You don’t have to worry about blowouts or cockblocks or having to compete with all the distractions of a bar or club.

    Best of luck.

    Like


  232. Thursday,
    Excellent suggestions. I’ll get right on it.
    I had been thinking of “going small” as Roissy has recently suggested. Philly, long being home to “The Sound Of Philadelphia”, is in more recent years home to the “NeoSoul” sound/set; as a result, there is a burgeoning community of what some of my buds call “Mystics”-Sistas who are into that whole scene. Profilewise, they tend to be inner city bred, but college educated, and also tend to either hangout at similarly themed bar/clubs, and definitely do cafes/lounges, house parties, and, going back to your earlier uni reference, they also tend to do lectures, that sort of thing. I’m not completely alien to the scene, since I’ve taught at Temple for some years. So all of these venues promise a far sight better for me than the events of last night.

    Mystery ain’t lying when he speaks of calibrating. Every Player is different and their environment is different, and which may demand a careful study of the situation in order to make adjustments.

    Last night’s spots were virtually impossible, in my view, to sarge, even w/o the threat of violence, because of the loudness of the music-it kills communication beyond grunts and monosyllables. So yea, the smaller venues are definitely going to be the way to go for me.

    Any further comments, insights, observations, anyone?

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  233. on January 2, 2009 at 12:55 am Steve Johnson

    Angelo,

    I’m going on memories of posts at inductivist. If you’re curious, check out his archives.

    Comment_Eternal_Now,

    “Technically, Mexico is a mess because it was an exploited colony of the United States and other Western Powers.”

    Yep, just like Singapore and Hong Kong. I’m now prepared to be bored by the display of mental gymnastics necessary to reconcile these inconvenient facts.

    Mu,

    I’ve found that the more the private the event, the better the odds. House parties > bars; pre-selection (of you in her eyes) plus social pressure on women to be polite gets you over the hardest part, the first 10 minutes. After that game is pretty much cake.

    My barrier is that I can’t ever seem to get anything going in the gym; tonight there was this really cute chick that I would love to have opened but had no success in doing so. Oh well. Anyone have any advice for manhattan gym approaches?

    Like


  234. on January 2, 2009 at 12:57 am Steve Johnson

    Mu,

    I also think that the louder, stranger filled environments tend to push women to pick more on alpha appearance than anything else. Big jaws, height, large build, etc. If these aren’t your strong points, other areas will work better for you.

    Like


  235. Steve:

    I would not recommend that newbies start out practicing their skills at small parties. It is _too_ easy to get girls to talk to you. Because girls are almost obligated to talk to you, you can forget that you have to get them attracted to you. Women at parties will politely listen to all kinds of boring people. In a bar or club, if they aren’t attracted they will simply walk off. Instant feedback.

    Once you really start to see the matrix and become consistent at attracting women, then smaller social gatherings become excellent places to meet people.

    Like


  236. on January 2, 2009 at 1:55 am Steve Johnson

    Very good point Thursday.

    There are two things you should learn before gaming venues like parties:

    1) How to read body language to, at minimum, tell if a woman is attracted. Memorize at least 3 IOIs and know them well enough that you know them on site. Learning more and developing a sense for body language is better but will take more time.

    2) How, when and why to eject. Don’t cling if you’re getting no IOIs; all you’ll accomplish is lowering your own social value by boring a woman; because of that you’ll look boring to the whole room. Personally I make it a point to interact with every person at a party even if I abandon (temporarily) an attractive woman who is giving me IOIs. As long as you don’t kill your social value when you mingle, you can still swoop the girl.

    Like


  237. Contradictions abound.

    On the one hand Roissy thinks men in the military are betas, yet the Sinaloa cartel and their paramilitary branch Los Negros, which these guys were obviously part of and are made up of many ex-military types, are alphas. Look at the guy on the left of the photo. Classic military ‘at ease’ stance.

    Also, many of the leaders of the Sinaloa cartel have their origins as proles. One as a car thief (Hector Salazar), the other a peasant (Joaquín Guzmán).

    So which are they? Alphas or betas by Roissy’s increasing fallacious stipulative definitions?

    (Oh yeah, and one woman dating drug dealers represents all women, that’s thinking with logic, AMIRITE ORAMIRITE).

    Like


  238. Oh, and to add to my last comment, which might explain why they are now in leadership positions. There is a difference between alphahood and being cunning. Up and coming Betas are usually more cunning than the current Alpha (partially due to beta intelligence, and alpha arrogance/blindspots). Randall at futurepundit posted a link on this a while back that machiavellian intelligence arose due to an evolutionary arms race between betas and alphas (and hence why you find betas to be more intelligent, if only they were to apply that intelligence to social coup de’tats and improving their social position).

    In the wild, alphas are overthrown by cunning beta coalitions. Being a solitary gloating he-man leads to getting your head stuck on the end of a poleaxe.

    Like


  239. Steve J, Thursday,
    Good stuff fellas, thanks. I think I’d just like to add a few things here.

    As I said earlier, I think its really important *not* to follow too much of “cookie cutter” approach with Game, at last for me. Simply put, I’m in a different position than Strauss/Mystery and most of the other Players I’ve read about. So, as the other night’s events have shown me, certain adjustments with me have to be made. I’ll explain.

    Strauss says in The Game that the more articulate and intelligent the girl, the easiest it is to run Game. After giving this some thought, *and* after having observed things w/this thought in particular in mind, I’ve come to the conclusion that he was correct. As much as it pains me to admit this, and at the risk of reading a bit much into things and/or sounding somewhat elitist, there *is* a kind of intel-minimum at work here. Meaning that there’s some degree of social awareness that coms along with Game in the first place, at least from what I could tell the other night. And as I think back on my pre-Game experiences with Women, I’ve personally always had the best results with smarter more educated Women than not. I think there may be a correlation, at least given my particular circumstance, which neither Strauss nor Mystery specifically addresses.

    But the fact of the matter is that Race and Class *do* account for things here. Arguably the latter moreso than the former, but I still maintain that both do count. And the fact remains that, as far as Black Men go, I’m fairly rare; the fact that I participate in discussions like these regularly, attests to that. So in a sense tht gives me added social value; I did recognize that consciously in the past, but I see it starkly now. Its kind of sad on the one hand, because there are lots of relatively educated Sistas and few Brothas who are similarly disposed or even curious about the world. Deep.

    That brings me to the next point wrt house parties and other more intimate gatherings. I’ve always done well there because, now that I think back on it, someone will always introduce me, and invariably mention, “oh by the way, Mu’Min’s an astrologer”, or some other such thing. And we all know how Women in particular like astrology. Especially me.
    So yea, *for me*, after thinking about this thing for the better part of the day, I’m avoiding larger, lower class “ghetto” venues like the plague, or if I do happen to tag along with my buds, I’m doing so just to hangout, NOT to Sarge. Smaller gatherings and more “non party” atmospheres, like lectures etc, are the way to go.

    Still in the calibrating phase; this is good, this is all very instructive.

    Please keep the comments and suggestions coming!

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  240. on January 2, 2009 at 10:16 am Wounded Animal

    Why is Latin America such a dumpster, anyway? Any theories?

    Low median IQ.

    Like


  241. on January 2, 2009 at 10:30 am Seeking Alpha

    Lack of capital, poor governance, and unfavorable geography.

    Like


  242. on January 2, 2009 at 10:32 am Wounded Animal

    Unfavorable geography my ass. And lack of capital and poor governance are effects of mass low IQ, not causes.

    Like


  243. Unfavorable geography my ass. And lack of capital and poor governance are effects of mass low IQ, not causes.

    Okay, so if you know for a fact that geography doesn’t cause races to evolve to have different IQs, and lack of captial and poor governance are incapable of causing mass low IQ in a race, what do you think DOES cause IQ differences between races?

    Like


  244. Access to Butter causes IQ differences.

    Like


  245. Access to Butter causes IQ differences.

    No silly, lack of access to butter is an effect of low IQ, not a cause. 😉

    Like


  246. on January 2, 2009 at 12:23 pm Turkeybaster115

    Anonymous, whats race?

    Like


  247. on January 2, 2009 at 12:24 pm Steve Johnson

    “Anonymous, whats race?”

    That thing that progressives base affirmative action on.

    Like


  248. on January 2, 2009 at 12:31 pm Turkeybaster115

    People with ultra high IQ’s tend to be socially maladjusted and awkward.

    Like


  249. Steve,

    I’ve also wondered the same thing about the gym. I’ve never picked up women from the gym, and I can’t think of an instance where I’ve seen another guy even get a number at a gym, and I’ve been going for quite a while. I’m trying to think of the reasons for this, and here’s what I come up with:

    1.) Use of iPods keeps people zoned out. They don’t interact as much considering the close quarters of the workout facility. Trying to get a woman’s attention or sneaking up on her to initiate game is pathetic and will only lead to rejection.

    2.) Girls I’ve talked to seem to get creeped out much easier at the gym by guys ogling them than in other situations. I’m discreet in my ogling, but when I bust another guy ogling a chick it does seem creepy.

    3.) I think women feel much more vulnerable at the gym, therefore they withdraw. In the gym setting women are more outnumbered by men than in bars / clubs / house parties.

    4.) Most people use gym time as their own private time or sanctuary. Being hit on by a dude is an encroachment of that sanctuary.

    5.) Guys in gyms are generally ridiculous. They peacock, but not in a flattering way. Guys checking themselves out in mirrors can’t be attractive.

    6.) The gym is too open to run game. It’s possible of course, but it doesn’t have the intimacy of a coffee shop, book store, house party, or even a club.

    7.) Sweat, or at least more than a moderate amount, is unattractive.

    Like


  250. You know you’re an Alpha when you just stroll into the women’s locker room in the gym and number-close a chick who is in a half-undressed state, and no other woman there calls the cops or screams at you to get out.

    Like


  251. PA,

    Or when you can forgo wiping down the machines because the chicks are lined up to lick the ass-crack sweat off the machine for you.

    Like


  252. If a chick asks you to spot her on the Nautilus hip abductor machine, you just might be an Alpha.

    Like


  253. Wounded Animal and Seeking Alpha,

    The causes of Latin America’s lack of development are numerous, but let’s go back to the basics: their colonial legacy. If there is a single most important variable to understand the region’s history, that’s it.

    If you want to understand Latin America today, or the last 100 years, you have to understand the dynamics of social class (which are a pretty clear colonial legacy). Social class is the fundamental optic through which all of Latin American life can be viewed. In the U.S., the optic is race: if you understand the power and complexities of race, you understand half of life in the U.S. In Latin America, it is class. It’s that simple….and I say this as someone who wrote a Ph.D. dissertation about Latin American politics.

    Seeking Alpha: What’s with the Ayn Rand image? Yeah, I was 19 years old once, but it’s nice to be beyond that Objectivist bullshit now.

    Like


  254. on January 2, 2009 at 1:39 pm ironrailsironweights

    You know you’re an Alpha when you just stroll into the women’s locker room in the gym and number-close a chick who is in a half-undressed state, and no other woman there calls the cops or screams at you to get out.

    I wonder if women’s locker rooms have counterparts to the saggy-scrota’ed naked old men seen in men’s locker rooms, namely naked old women walking around with their hooters hanging halfway to their waists.

    Peter

    Like


  255. In the U.S., the optic is race: if you understand the power and complexities of race, you understand half of life in the U.S.

    I’ve found the best way to understand the politics of the US is to see it as a 300-year-long intra-white struggle between three groups: the New England religious fanatics, the Southern aristocrats, and the hillbilly/farmer/pioneers. Let’s call them Puritans, Neocons, and Rednecks.

    The Puritans have been winning most of their battles, beginning wiht the Civil War, and more recently with the Civil Rights era, when they co-opted the blacks as vote-fodder and as a paramilitary militia to ethnically cleanse rival whites from the American cities.

    And we are ruled by the same people who hanged the Massachusetts Bay Colony witches. And these people are no less religiously fanatical than they were in the 1600s or the 1900s. Glory, Glory Hallelujah.

    Like


  256. THIS BLOG IS ABOUT RACE!

    Like


  257. on January 2, 2009 at 1:49 pm Comment_Jabber_Jabber

    ****
    “Technically, Mexico is a mess because it was an exploited colony of the United States and other Western Powers.”

    Yep, just like Singapore and Hong Kong. I’m now prepared to be bored by the display of mental gymnastics necessary to reconcile these inconvenient facts.
    ****
    Hong Kong. Oh, yeah, that’s a super-retarded example.

    It’s a single city that is a nexus of trade. The revenue from the trade would make it prosperous period. And the legal framework it existed in is hardly normal either. Since it was a single city ‘colony’ surrounded by native government, normally abusive practices would have simply convinced people to LEAVE.

    Singapore is also a trade nexus.

    Maybe eternal now boy would like to explain China’s problems in the 1800s. How it was a disaster. I await the mental gynmastics required for jabber boy to explain China’s problems without reference to the British Opium trade and wars.

    Go ahead, Steve Johnson.

    I think the current ‘explanation’ involves ‘better nutrition raising IQs’. Which is great, because we can’t actually verify IQs in the 1800s!

    Like


  258. I wonder if women’s locker rooms have counterparts to the saggy-scrota’ed naked old men seen in men’s locker rooms,

    If a hot young chick runs into the men’s locker room and flashes you her titties while standing between you and a naked disgusting old man in order to shield your eyes from his revolting nekkitude, you just might be an Alpha.

    Like


  259. PA,

    I don’t agree with your assessment, but I appreciate your originality. My comments on race were a bit simple, but it is something I routinely tell Latin Americans who are visiting the U.S. Likewise, I tell Americans who are visiting Latin America to focus on social class, and they’ll learn more a week than most people learn in months.

    Like


  260. on January 2, 2009 at 1:56 pm Wounded Animal

    what do you think DOES cause IQ differences between races?

    Genetics.

    Like


  261. on January 2, 2009 at 2:01 pm Wounded Animal

    In Latin America, it is class. It’s that simple….and I say this as someone who wrote a Ph.D. dissertation about Latin American politics.

    Then surely you must have noticed that the Latin American upper classes consist of descendants of continental Spaniards and the Latin American lower classes consist of mestizos and indigenous Americans.

    My one sentence above is worth more than your whole fucking doctoral dissertation.

    Like


  262. Genetics.

    Yes, but what causes those genetic differences in IQ? All races started out from the same genetic origin according to current scientific findings and evolved to become different races. So why is there currently so much genetic difference between group IQs? Or do you think every race debuted fully formed with their current level of IQ disparities intact since the very beginning of time?

    Like


  263. I appreciate your originality.

    I can’t claim originality. If you want to read excellent analysis of the American class wars, I’d recommend Mencius Moldbug’s blog “Unqualified Reservations.” I’d look into his early archives, particularly “Castes in the United States” from May 2007.

    The model I describe isn’t perfect, but I think that the basic pattern of Puritans=Liberals holds. And they are as much raligious fanatics then, as they are now, with minor adjustments, like replacing all that God stuff with Political Correctness. Same Kingdom of God fervor, same supra-rational religiosity.

    Neocons are technically former Liberals, originally mostly Jewish, who rejected some of the more extreme forms of leftism. But I also link today’s “immigration-is-grrreeeeat for the economy” crowd that includes GWB with yesteryear’s slave traders. Both were fans of oligarchies that rested on masses of indigent and politically neutered laborers, Africans then, Hispanics now.

    Like


  264. on January 2, 2009 at 2:09 pm Wounded Animal

    All races started out from the same genetic origin according to current scientific findings and evolved to become different races. So why is there currently so much genetic difference between group IQs?

    Because … they evolved to become different races.

    NB: This does not mean there can never be any such thing as an Aztec physicist, just that there numbers will be far fewer than, say, Spanish physicists. Median IQ.

    Like


  265. Thor:

    Seeking Alpha: What’s with the Ayn Rand image? Yeah, I was 19 years old once, but it’s nice to be beyond that Objectivist bullshit now.

    Ha hawww!

    Like


  266. Because … they evolved to become different races.

    But HOW did they evolve? You said geographic location, culture, lack of capital and poor governance are effects of mass low IQ, not causes. Yet you admit that the races started from the same genetic origin and evolved to be different. But what caused this difference in evolution if according to you geographic location, culture, lack of capital and poor governance didn’t? I’m being open-minded here.

    If you agree that races evolved to have different IQs and you’re so sure about what DIDN’T cause them to evolve that way, then you surely put a lot of thought as to what DID cause the different races to evolve to have different IQs. What caused the IQ genetics of different races to diverge so greatly over time?

    Like


  267. Speaking of Gym Pick Up. I was speaking to this girlfriend of a guy I knew and she was explaining how they met. She was a solid 9/10 and was an fitness trainer at a local gym. Apparently he spit some game to her when he met her at the gym, she left to go home, but then when she pulled into her drive way, she got out and noticed that he had followed her home in his car (I know this sounds totally ridiculous but this is what she told me). She got out and he then proceeded to ask for her phone number. She gave it to him. All I have to say is that he must have had a serious Frame… for that to work. It was just hilarious because regardless of what you think be natural instinct to be scared (I mean who wouldn’t) apparently his Game Kung Fu was that epic. Pretty ridiculous, but in retrospect… it is interesting how people respond to things… when the frame of reference is coloring the situation differently.
    Btw though.. this guy is probably the strongest natural I’ve ever met… I guess he’s like what you would have if you had a natural who has ridiculous grasp of tactical Game.

    That is my contribution to the Gym pick up context.

    Like


  268. Wounded Animal

    My “whole fucking doctoral dissertation.” That type of language is usually reserved for people who have spent years writing one, and are thus free to criticize their own work. When somebody else says it, is smacks of an inferiority complex. And that same inferiority complex is probably what drives you to peddle your dumb ideas about race. I’m sure you’re white, and I’m sure you’re a roaring success because of your whiteness. I’m white too. Congratulations to us!

    Like


  269. Peter:

    I wonder if women’s locker rooms have counterparts to the saggy-scrota’ed naked old men seen in men’s locker rooms, namely naked old women walking around with their hooters hanging halfway to their waists.

    I suggest you drop that line of thinking.

    I don’t want to have to come back here and find you posting links to Voyuerweb’s Glorious “””Natural””” Breasts. You’ve already inflicted enough psychological damage.

    Like


  270. on January 2, 2009 at 2:21 pm Wounded Animal

    Thor,

    I’m sorry you wasted so much time and money learning to ignore patent facts, like the racial makeup of people in the Latin American upper and lower classes.

    Love,

    Wounded Animal

    Like


  271. T.:

    But HOW did they evolve? You said geographic location, culture, lack of capital and poor governance are effects of mass low IQ, not causes.

    What is so hard to understand about IQ having both historical environmental causes and current environmental effects? “Environment” is two different things depending on what point in time you are looking at.

    Like


  272. Wounded Animal,

    Even if they were patent facts, they aren’t relevant. Grownups don’t get hung up on notions of racial superiority. They’re too busy being successful and taking advantage of their innate superiority to worry about the inferior races. What’s your excuse?

    Like


  273. on January 2, 2009 at 2:30 pm Wounded Animal

    Ricky,

    Higher IQ people tend to breed with other higher IQ people and lower IQ people tend to breed with other lower IQ

    Like


  274. on January 2, 2009 at 2:31 pm Wounded Animal

    … people. Over time, this is going to lead to differences in median IQ in their descendants.

    Like


  275. What is so hard to understand about IQ having both historical environmental causes and current environmental effects? “Environment” is two different things depending on what point in time you are looking at.

    That’s fine and dandy but what’s the answer to my question? All I hear are the specific things that specifically didn’t cause the genetic disparity of races and IQ. So I want to hear from Wounded Animal what are these historical environmental you speak of that caused this genetic disparity?

    Like


  276. T. AKA Ricky Raw,

    Regards the fall of the Roman Empire: You are missing an important genetic angle. The Huns and Vandals and other invaders certainly destroyed a lot. But in the long run they sped up European development by introducing genetic alleles that would have taken far longer to spread. The introgression of these alleles got worked out by natural selection and assorted European populations picked up a lot of beneficial mutations due to war.

    In a couple of weeks I’m going to write a book review of an important and highly excellent new book (I’ve already read it in final draft) on human evolution of the last 10000 years. The book looks at signs of recent evolution discovered from the International HapMap project and other projects that look for genetic mutations that have recently sweeped or are still sweeping thru populations. The writers produce a new synthesis of human history that offers a genetic interpretation of the rise and fall of great empires. Genetic mutations played a far larger role than previously suspected in empire expansion.

    Like


  277. on January 2, 2009 at 2:37 pm Wounded Animal

    Even if they were patent facts, they aren’t relevant.

    That is a pre-determined conclusion from ideology, not a thesis built on observed facts.

    Like


  278. There is an awful lot of liberalism on this board coming from people who call themselves conservatives. The reason Third World immigrants don’t assimilate into American life in large numbers is because they can’t.

    Joseph Kay has written an exploratory article on the subject.

    See here:

    http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/010122.html

    Like


  279. As bad as Mexicans are, they are still better than blacks, who are responsible at least half of the rapes and murders of white victims. Enough is enough. The US needs a cleansing civil war.

    Like


  280. randall:
    In a couple of weeks I’m going to write a book review of an important and highly excellent new book (I’ve already read it in final draft) on human evolution of the last 10000 years.

    cochran’s new book, right? i’m looking forward to reading it as well.

    btw, cochran really is an arrogant prick. not that i blame him. if you’ve got it…

    Like


  281. Hong Kong and Singapore as nexuses of trade: How lame. Then is South Korea a nexus of trade? The place was utterly demolished less than 60 years ago.

    Then Taiwan and Japan are nexuses of trade too. Every place that is rich? Never mind their IQ scores. They are just nexuses of trade.

    Mexico’s poverty: Compare it to South Korea in 1952. Mexico wasn’t freshly demolished by a war. Mexico was controlled by the IPR and didn’t let much foreign investment in. Why didn’t Mexico, free of foreign influences, become as successful as South Korea?

    Natural selection operated on humans in local ecological niches to create lots of functional differences. We know this not only from measurements of anatomy but now also from genetic testing. It is not speculation. We scientifically know this.

    Signs of recent (and therefore local) human evolution are getting published in lots of papers. Here are more signs of recent selective pressures. How about still more signs of recent human evolution? Want more? Here are 4 open access papers on recent human evolution.

    DNA testing costs have fallen by orders of magnitude. The genetic data coming out of labs on the distribution of genetic differences in humans has become a deluge.

    It is getting harder to pretend that the Standard Social Science Model is anything but nonsense.

    Like


  282. Wounded:

    I asked you what factors resulted in higher IQ and lower IQ people ended up developing from the same single genetic source, i.e. the mitochondrial eve. Your answer is that it happened because higher IQ people mated with like and lower IQ people mated with like.

    Does anyone see the logical fallacy in that response? Your answer gives a factor as to why IQ gaps may have increased with time but not what historical factors caused them to originate in the first place.

    Like


  283. Why do so many Roissy threads descend into a discussion about race differences in IQ?

    I can think of a two reasons:

    – many of roissy’s regulars originally came from the gnxp-steve sailer wing of the web… I’m pretty sure that’s how I found it anyway.
    – roissy himself throws in a few rational points re race that said regulars would nod with, but that are blinding suns to anyone not from that quartet. this prompts discussion.

    Like


  284. on January 2, 2009 at 3:41 pm Wounded Animal

    Your answer gives a factor as to why IQ gaps may have increased with time but not what historical factors caused them to originate in the first place.

    The divergence apparently occurred very early on. Why? Don’t know, don’t care.

    All these tough-talking playas, laying it down about rough sex and picking up ho’s, then somebody mentions IQ and all of a sudden everybody’s holding lilac-scented handkerchiefs to their noses and protesting, have you no decency sir, there are some things we gentlemen just do not discuss

    Like


  285. 11244Make Crazy cash in a minute

    at

    cash4u.ueuo.com

    112441124411244

    Like


  286. I think that there is an underestimate the power of the bi-modal distribution….. single descriptor numbers for things like IQ and Socioeconomic status are deceptive…

    Like


  287. Don’t know, don’t care.

    If you don’t know what causes IQ differences to originate and you don’t care to know by your own admission, then how can you shoot down people who give plausible theories about it with such authority? You seem to be an expert on everything that doesn’t cause it, but admit you don’t know what does.

    Like


  288. on January 2, 2009 at 4:03 pm Wounded Animal

    It is impossible to know precisely why the IQ of the initial human diaspora is higher. What is definitively known is that those differences exist and persist, and exist persist from environment to environment, thus weakening the case for environment as a substantial factor in IQ.

    That this is controversial on a blog where the supremacy of biology over ideology is acknowledged as a foregone conclusion is something I find both puzzling and amusing.

    Like


  289. on January 2, 2009 at 4:04 pm Turkeybaster115

    Hmm… I wonder what role a “racist (Prejudiced)” environment plays in the development of minorities. One has to compare the human development index of minorities born in “free-world” democracies. Remember kids: race is nothing but a social construct, there is a complex relationship between genes and the environment. Now continue the ignorance based arguments

    Like


  290. on January 2, 2009 at 4:13 pm Seeking Alpha

    @ Thor – Well I’m only 23, so she does still have a pull on me, but you don’t have to be a true-believing Objectivist to appreciate it as the most moral philosophy. I personally believe that each man and woman has a moral right to the fruits of their labor. Charity to your neighbor is necessarily moral, but the inverse (that not giving charity is necessarily immoral) is not true. I think that coercive government redistribution of wealth is immoral. Those are the philosophical beliefs that form the foundation of my far more practical policy beliefs, which aren’t nearly as radical. You can disagree with those philosophical beliefs, but they are hardly insupportable. The bashing of anything even associated with Rand is usually more of a knee-jerk reaction than a well-supported argument.

    As for geography not making a difference, you’d be surprised. First of all, original racial IQ differences are products of geography (read Guns, Germs and Steel).

    Second, poor geography can lead to poor governance – not only could groups like FARC not be able to operate without the dense jungles in Colombia and Venezuela and the lack of an easily identifiable border, but disparate population centers broken up by difficult terrain make central governmental control difficult.

    Finally, poor geography exacerbates lack of capital by dramatically increasing infrastructure costs.

    Like


  291. roissy,

    Yes, Greg Cochran and Henry Harpending’s new book. Yes, Greg has every right to be arrogant. He has an extremely high batting average at being right and across a large assortment of subjects. His knowledge of conventional military history is astounding. That comes on top of a Ph.D. in physics and a great mind at genetic theory. In this new book he accomplishes a synthesis of genetic and war history that is amazing. One genetic mutation caused the spread of the Indo-European mother language. It makes perfect sense. Wish I’d thought of it. You’ll have to read the book to find out which mutation it was.

    Like


  292. T.

    If you don’t know what causes IQ differences to originate and you don’t care to know by your own admission, then how can you shoot down people who give plausible theories about it with such authority? You seem to be an expert on everything that doesn’t cause it, but admit you don’t know what does.

    Replace “IQ” with “I.D.” in the above and it sounds like it could’ve been written by an Intelligent Design creationist.

    Google “god of the gaps”

    Like


  293. on January 2, 2009 at 4:19 pm Seeking Alpha

    @ Wounded Animal

    When people refer to IQ as an environmentally based trait, they don’t mean whether or not your mom breastfed you. They mean whether or not your race comes from an agricultural/hunter geography, whether that agricultural geography is high labor intensive (Chinese and Indian flood plains) or low labor intensive (European agriculture).

    The fact that the average IQ of, say, Asians, doesn’t change whether they currently live in America or China doesn’t have anything to do with the environmental factor.

    Like


  294. T. AKA Ricky Raw,

    The major reason IQ-boosting genetic alleles spread was not that like mated with like. Though that helped. The major reason such alleles spread is that at least in some environments boosting cognitive processing capacity increased reproductive fitness.

    Evolution ultimately gets decided by which alleles cause people to have more progeny who survive to adulthood to have more progeny of their own. The people who have the most babies get their genes spread more widely.

    In the case of Ashkenazi Jews in the Middle Ages their reproductive isolation helped accelerate their development of higher IQ. Though as Greg Cochran argues, this came at the cost of IQ overclocking where the Jews have lots of genetic diseases that boost IQ in their heterozygous state. But the main factor that raised their IQ was the advantage they gained in business that allowed them to eat better and live in better housing and with better clothes, all those things boosting reproductive fitness of having higher IQs.

    Like


  295. on January 2, 2009 at 4:26 pm Turkeybaster115

    Seeking alpha, environment doesn’t increase or decrease IQ. If an asian kid is born in america, and he goes through an education system where there is a strong adopted perception amongst the teachers, and students that asians are just useless and dumb, what makes you think he/she would perform the same in school, as say an asian kid born and raised in asia?

    Like


  296. on January 2, 2009 at 4:30 pm Seeking Alpha

    @Turkey, you’re making contradicting statements. You’re saying that environment doesn’t change IQ in your first sentence, and then asking what makes me think the two different environments wouldn’t change his performance (implying environment does change IQ) in your last sentence. You confused something somewhere.

    Regardless of what you were trying to say, a) IQ has to do with ability, not performance and b) I explicitly mentioned environment as a macro/geographical factor, not a micro/societal factor. Given that you’re born with your IQ, societal factors can’t be a determinant of IQ.

    Like


  297. There is a self-serving element to the IQ arguments. Isn’t this blog about how to pick up women? Why divide the brotherhood?

    Like


  298. on January 2, 2009 at 4:40 pm Turkeybaster115

    Seeking Alpha, I think that you have a low IQ because I just re-read what I wrote, and it makes perfect sense.

    Like


  299. on January 2, 2009 at 4:42 pm Seeking Alpha

    Maybe your first sentence was meant to be a question? The post prior to that one was also an odd mix of snark and sarcasm that didn’t make much sense. It’s not clear which side of the argument you’re on, and I promise you an intelligent reading of your referenced post leaves a contradictory impression.

    Like


  300. on January 2, 2009 at 4:51 pm Wounded Animal

    whether that agricultural geography is high labor intensive (Chinese and Indian flood plains) or low labor intensive (European agriculture).

    Right. All those forests just magically cleared themselves. We just stumbled on the seasonal crops and domestic animals that were just lying around the place.

    You’re aware that Diamond won’t defend his thesis in public debate, right?

    Like


  301. on January 2, 2009 at 4:51 pm Turkeybaster115

    People are trying to argue that race (a social construct), correlates with IQ, a test that surposedly measures Intelligence. Guess no one for got to ask if High IQ correlates to Societal sucess. Others are I guess trying to correlate this intelligence test, with sucess reproductive fitness. Its really stupid though.

    Like


  302. Replace “IQ” with “I.D.” in the above and it sounds like it could’ve been written by an Intelligent Design creationist.

    So you’re saying that I, a guy who is arguing that genetic differences don’t magically happen without scientific cause and effect but are instead the result of external forces causing gene differentiation over time, sounds like an INTELLIGENT DESIGN ADVOCATE? So let me guess, Wounded’s claim that external factors and environments have nothing at all to do with genetic evolutionary change, despite his ability to counter with a plausible theory, and that such differences magically appear and we don’t need to bother or care about the scientific reasons why these things occur sounds like a follower of Darwin to you?

    You’re really reaching there. Someone was using a gods of the gap argument, but it wasn’t me.

    Like


  303. should have been “inability to counter” in my last comment.

    Like


  304. People are trying to argue that race (a social construct),

    Are you actually saying that race is a social construct, or are you mocking that attitude?

    Like


  305. on January 2, 2009 at 5:04 pm Wounded Animal

    Race is a social construct? So when I’m looking at Serena Williams it’s just socialization that keeps me from seeing how similar she is to Anna Kournikova?

    The question that spurred this was why Latin America is such a pit. The answer is low median IQ. The higher a society’s median IQ the better its quality of life, and environment has nothing to do with it. Higher IQ people will make a cold, wet place like Sweden into a paradise. Lower IQ people will make a temperate place with plenty of arable land like, say, Kenya, into a hellhole.

    Like


  306. on January 2, 2009 at 5:06 pm Seeking Alpha

    @Wounded – Clearing a forest and clearing a jungle or a desert aren’t quite the same. It’s still not clear what you’re arguing? That Europeans left Africa stupid, and on the walk over to Europe, somehow got smart in the brief interim? Batting down my points with snark and indirect attacks while offer a shoulder shrug and a ‘who knows’ instead is hardly very smart… you must not be European.

    @ Turkey – Race is not a social construct. The boundaries along the edges are fuzzy and you can get into societal factors when determining whether a mixed race person is categorized in this race or that race, but it’s a scientific fact that certain races are predisposed to certain diseases or genetic traits.

    As for ‘guess no one for got to ask’, well that settles the question of your own IQ.

    Race and IQ do have proven correlations. The causes and effects of that are debatable, but the fact itself isn’t. Likewise, there is a strong correlation between intelligence and success.

    Finally, no one here is suggesting a 1:1 correlation of intelligence and ‘success reproductive fitness’. The community opinion here is that it’s correlated up to some ceiling and then, much like the valley of the uncanny, it drops off. Being on the other side of that valley, I can sadly attest to the truth of that, although I can also attest to the fact that game can seriously make up for it.

    Like


  307. The major reason IQ-boosting genetic alleles spread was not that like mated with like. Though that helped. The major reason such alleles spread is that at least in some environments boosting cognitive processing capacity increased reproductive fitness.

    Evolution ultimately gets decided by which alleles cause people to have more progeny who survive to adulthood to have more progeny of their own. The people who have the most babies get their genes spread more widely.

    In the case of Ashkenazi Jews in the Middle Ages their reproductive isolation helped accelerate their development of higher IQ. Though as Greg Cochran argues, this came at the cost of IQ overclocking where the Jews have lots of genetic diseases that boost IQ in their heterozygous state. But the main factor that raised their IQ was the advantage they gained in business that allowed them to eat better and live in better housing and with better clothes, all those things boosting reproductive fitness of having higher IQs.

    Thanks, but I actually know this. I was just playing devil’s advocate to give him a chance to provide a plausible counter theory about how IQ differences originated.

    Like


  308. I wonder if social-constructionists can explain why people have babies of their own race and not of a random race.

    Like


  309. on January 2, 2009 at 5:10 pm Seeking Alpha

    @ Wounded – Just to be clear, I do believe in different median racial IQs. However, your argument fails if you examine, say, Europe versus the Middle East during the Dark Ages. Either you think Europeans only evolved high IQ after that period, or you’re forced to admit that there are alternative factors besides IQ that play a role in a society’s development (although IQ is also certainly one factor).

    Like


  310. on January 2, 2009 at 5:11 pm Turkeybaster115

    T.AKA Ricky Raw, Let me just break it down for you.

    1. Arguments are like butts…

    2. The thread began with a story of a mexican drug bust, intercepting product aimed at sale in the US. Instead of asking questions about our drug laws, everone blamed mexico. Poor mexicans, the drugs were actually grown in columbia, but i digress

    3. Then as a country made up of confused immigrants (a Tangled up mess of nations) with identity problems, Race (a social construct) emerged as the central topic of discussion. Race was then used in several arguments for various topics from genetics, to evolutionary psychology, to molecular biology.

    4. Illegal immigration has also been blamed for problems in the US, when all arguments made on the thread were from immigrants (some mycegenated some not), with no arguments comming from self identified indigenous natives, which everyone always assumes don’t exist.

    Understand now? Let the ignorance continue.

    Like


  311. Higher IQ people will make a cold, wet place like Sweden into a paradise.

    No, you are reversing cause and effect. A cold, wet wasteland weeds out people of lower IQ. Only high IQ people can make such a wasteland liveable. Swedes have a high IQ precisely BECAUSE Sweden was so cold and wet.

    Warm, fertile climates on the other hand are easy for everyone to survive in, including low IQ people. So what do we know about low IQ people? All other things being equal, low IQ people will have a lot more testosterone and higher sex drive and reproduce much faster than high IQ people, hence driving down the average IQ even further.

    Like


  312. on January 2, 2009 at 5:17 pm Wounded Animal

    Environment, geography and lack of capital do not explain Latin America. There is plenty of arable land, temperate climate, diverse flora and fauna, mineral resources, etc. There is also (and has been) plenty of capital washing around the globe seeking returns.

    Low median IQ.

    Like


  313. I’m telling you… its all about the Butter…. lack of Butter is but a world of Margarine …

    Like


  314. on January 2, 2009 at 5:21 pm Wounded Animal

    A cold, wet wasteland weeds out people of lower IQ.

    Really? Is that why the Inuit are so smart?

    Spain is a good place to raise crops and go fishing. So is Le Cote d’Ivoire. What’s the difference between the two places? It’s a mystery, a conundrum, a puzzlement …

    Like


  315. on January 2, 2009 at 5:22 pm Seeking Alpha

    And one about which you’ve offered no evidence of your own.

    Like


  316. on January 2, 2009 at 5:22 pm Seeking Alpha

    *no answer of your own.

    Like


  317. on January 2, 2009 at 5:23 pm Turkeybaster115

    Wounded animal, let me explain. Serena williams is a decendant of slaves from africa, living in north america. Most people in the us call her black (identifying her by her skin color), some call her african american (identifying her as a fusion of two continents). anna is from russia, and also lives in north america. Some people call her white, russian, or russian american, or caucasian. “Race” is a social construct, meaning that its made up.

    Like


  318. on January 2, 2009 at 5:25 pm Seeking Alpha

    So turkey, there are no physical differences between the two besides the color of their skin? A scientist, looking at their DNA, couldn’t tell which was which?

    Like


  319. Turkeybaster115 – are you an idiot, or just drunk?

    Like


  320. on January 2, 2009 at 5:26 pm Wounded Animal

    IOW, Serena is descended from Africans and Anna is descended from Russians. And the two have more ancestors in common with other Africans and other Russians than they do with each other. This is a real thing; it is not something people made up.

    Like


  321. on January 2, 2009 at 5:37 pm Turkeybaster115

    Anna and serena actually are both homo sapiens. The differences you see are differences that stem from varing phenotypic expressions. Black and white are words that were “invented” by a group of africans and europeans occupying north america in the mid 1800s. These words were meant to unify various groups of people sadly they are used today by people for different, destructive, social and political goals.

    Like


  322. on January 2, 2009 at 5:43 pm Turkeybaster115

    Wonded animal both anna and serena have a common ancestor named lucy. Her fossils were discovered on the plains of east africa. She was the first homosapien. did she have physical traits that make her look “black” or “white”, who knows and who cares. its just easyer to look at what her bone structure looks like. This is called palaeontology.

    Like


  323. Wonded animal both anna and serena have a common ancestor named lucy.

    A giraffe and a tomato have a common ancestor named amoeba. One is “tall” and the other is “red.” Kingdomism is a social construct.

    Like


  324. PA said:

    “A giraffe and a tomato have a common ancestor named amoeba. One is “tall” and the other is “red.” Kingdomism is a social construct.”

    I laughed out loud at this. I can’t stand the stupid “social construct” talk. It’s just an easy way for stupid and intellectually lazy people to declare victory without making any convincing point. When even the people most adversely affected by racism believe strongly in race, I would say maybe it’s a social construct, but it’s one that matters.

    When all the genes in human DNA are mapped and their roles determined, it may or may not be good news for the various peoples of the Earth. You can be sure though, if there’s any negative information about any of the races, it’ll be strongly suppressed.

    Like


  325. PA said:

    “A giraffe and a tomato have a common ancestor named amoeba. One is “tall” and the other is “red.” Kingdomism is a social construct.”

    I laughed out loud at this. I can’t stand the stupid “social construct” talk. It’s just an easy way for stupid and intellectually lazy people to declare victory without making a convincing point. When even the people most adversely affected by racism believe strongly in race, I would say maybe it’s a social construct, but it’s one that matters.

    When all the genes in human DNA are mapped and their roles determined, it may or may not be good news for the various peoples of the Earth. You can be sure though, if there’s any negative information about any of the races, it’ll be strongly suppressed.

    Like


  326. […] then there is a mixture of both. And somehow it is this perpetual moral outrage paired with opportunistic application of what is despised at the same time has survived the rather […]

    Like


  327. Seeking Alpha incorrectly states:

    Given that you’re born with your IQ, societal factors can’t be a determinant of IQ.

    You are born with genetic potential. If you avoid assorted toxins and infections while getting enough micro and macro nutrients then you’ll reach your genetic potential. People in Western nations, Japan, and some other developed countries do reach their genetic potentials. But people who do not get enough iodine or other key nutrients do not reach their genetic potential.

    Some psychometricians speculate that Africa’s average IQ could be boosted around 12 points with better nutrition and disease control. That’d still leave they way down in the IQ leagues, but a lot better than they are today.

    Like


  328. “Some psychometricians speculate that Africa’s average IQ could be boosted around 12 points with better nutrition and disease control. That’d still leave they way down in the IQ leagues, but a lot better than they are today.”

    The problem is that it is their low IQ doesn’t allow them to build/maintain a first world country and reach their full potential.

    Like


  329. on January 3, 2009 at 1:03 am Turkeybaster115

    Anonymous said quote: “When all the genes in human DNA are mapped and their roles determined, it may or may not be good news for the various peoples of the Earth. You can be sure though, if there’s any negative information about any of the races, it’ll be strongly suppressed.”

    the information might be a double edged sword! disease is are molecular biological deficiency stemming from in born errors in metabolism. Pick a race, any race, and you find diseases that if not evident at birth, show in adult hood or late in life. You really don’t want people to use the information from the human genome project racially. Let me just tell you that no race, is immune to disease genes, this is because of all the “stick with your race crowd”. People have been breeding disease for generations. Take a look at the cancer rates among various “white” americans, and you can clearly see that they could have benefited from some “race” mixing.

    Like


  330. on January 3, 2009 at 1:12 am Turkeybaster115

    Anonymous it is a “social construct”. it has no biological significance whatsoever. We are all homo sapiens. Genus: homo, species: sapien. Sub-species taxonomy, i.e: race is just not recognized by the modern scientific community. Race talk is prevalent amongst countries formed by immiggration, e.g the US, South Africa, and Australia. take the US for example. We are black, african american, caucasian, white, hispanic (really? your really going to classify people by spoken language?) if there are hispanics, how come the english speakers aren’t anglophones? these words change every decade, with race, politics mind f**king the masses.

    Like


  331. M with the dot
    Mexican thugs, IQ and Finnish vowels?

    Yep, this blog is definitely a part of the Steveosphere.

    HA but the people here are not very uptight.

    Like


  332. MU “Mystics”-Sistas

    MU do tell? How do you friends describe this set of sisters?

    Like


  333. Wounded Animal
    Ricky,

    Higher IQ people tend to breed with other higher IQ people and lower IQ people tend to breed with other lower IQ

    *Looks around at light skinned black family members(non Ethiopian) including Some with light colored eyes and feels a bit of confusion*
    Men will screw any woman they can get their hands on sweetie.

    PA
    I wonder if social-constructionists can explain why people have babies of their own race and not of a random race.

    Have you taken a good look at the African-Americans around you? Some are as white as you are.

    Like


  334. chic:

    Have you taken a good look at the African-Americans around you? Some are as white as you are.

    One of the freakiest things I’ve seen IRL is black albinos.

    Like


  335. B – A – D bitches love dudes with blood/drug/gun/terrorist money. straight up. heavy cost those guys pay in the end for that ass….but hey…props where props is due.

    Like


  336. Your sarcasm is legendary Tupac 🙂
    Google Charles Rangel, Claudia Mason, Wentworth Miller, Carley Simon, Vanessa Williams, Adam Clayton Powell Jr &III,the daughters of Victoria Rowell and Eartha Kitt.

    Like


  337. Chic:

    Your sarcasm is legendary Tupac

    ???

    I’m totally serious. I’ve met a couple black albinos and it was really weird, that’s all I’m saying.

    Like


  338. TurkeyBaster said:

    >>>”Genus: homo, species: sapien. Sub-species taxonomy, i.e: race is just not recognized by the modern scientific community. ”

    I’m aware of that. All dogs are a subspecies of the wolf. However, I’m not aware that there’s any different scientific sub-species classification for the different breeds of dog, since they’re all able to produce reproductively viable offspring, unlike mating a donkey to a horse. I’ve never heard of sub-subspecies before. Any human can produce offspring with any other, so of course we are all the same species!

    However, it’s foolish to deny the existence of race. This is like saying the Chihuahua is the same as a St. Bernard. Sure they can breed, but would you deny the differences between the two? Of course not!

    Obviously, there are no strict cut-off lines and human beings form a kind of genetic continuum/spectrum, but saying that races don’t exist is like saying red and violet are the same thing since because there are no distinct dividing lines between frequencies, except for ones arbitrarily made up by humans, in the electromagnetic spectrum.

    And by the way, the modern scientific community is full of political biases when it comes to dealing with humans and it far from being immune to the politically correct dogma of the day; see Stephen Jay Gould as example #1. It wasn’t that long ago that phrenology, racial hygiene, and other assorted things were scientifically respectable.

    >>>”Race talk is prevalent amongst countries formed by immiggration, e.g the US, South Africa, and Australia. take the US for example. We are black, african american, caucasian, white, hispanic (really? your really going to classify people by spoken language?) if there are hispanics, how come the english speakers aren’t anglophones?”

    What? Russia, Ukraine, and all the Slavic countries talk about race. China has extreme racial/national pride, as do Japan and Korea. Lots of countries have lots of race talk, even where they are almost totally ethnically homogeneous!

    If you go to any University in Russia that has a significant number of foreign students (Like Peoples’ Friendship University), you’ll immediately notice that the Chinese and the African students absolutely cannot stand one another and think of the other as subhuman. I suppose it’s possible that within a month of arriving, they’ve already internalized Russians’ racism against Chinese and Africans and that they despise one another in an attempt not to feel like they’re at the bottom of the Russian ethnic deck of cards. But it’s more likely that they absorbed this dislike of one another beforehand in their own ethnic homelands.

    >> “Take a look at the cancer rates among various “white” americans, and you can clearly see that they could have benefited from some “race” mixing.”

    Yeah, that’s true, but what gets lost is that inbreeding has benefits too. If you want to select for certain traits, it certainly makes more sense to inbreed and select for those traits to a limited extent. This is what animal husbandry is all about.. maximizing desired traits while reducing undesirable ones. The offspring of your toy poodle won’t look much like a toy poodle if you outbreed it to a mastiff.

    Like


  339. Okay, I thought you were pulling my leg again. A blogger posted about seeing an Asian Albino. I’ve never seen one myself but she said she had to stop herself from staring.

    I was caught off guard when in Sweden and the Netherlands(moreso) because many of the people have very pale coloring like an albino. Think Joe the Plumber but much lighter. It’s rare to see whites in America or at least on the coast, with that type of coloring. From what I can recall from high school, most Swedish immigrants moved into the Midwest because the large stretches of land….

    A few of Sweden’s track&field athletes have the very pale coloring I’m writing about. Google Carolina Kluft

    Like


  340. T is trying to get people to speculate on how selection pressures on intelligence were different on different continents. Here’s what I consider plausible. In the tropics, there is a much greater variety of infectious diseases than in the temperate zone that occasionally wipe out entire communities. With primitive technology, there is very little humans can do about them. Hence, greater selection pressure toward faster reproduction. In contrast, the challenges human face in temperate and arctic climates are more manageable. Yes, infectious diseases exist but the main challenge is surviving the winter, which is quite doable with adequate foresight and preparation. In short, the tropical human populations are slightly more r-selected than extratropical populations that are slightly more K-selected than the former. Note that our species as a whole is very K-selected. There is much overlap in the trait distributions of the races.

    Like


  341. A few of Sweden’s track&field athletes have the very pale coloring I’m writing about. Google Carolina Kluft

    Yes, Nordic people tend to be rather pale. It’s because of the great variation of daylength over the year and because the role of skin exposure to UV rays in the synthesis of vitamin D. I live in Tampere at 61th northern latitude in the inland southwest of the country. We have five and half hours of daylight now. A dark-skinned Moroccan guy I knew worked in here for a few years. He had a basement apartment and he ate a lot of junk food. One winter morning this guy woke up with half of his face paralyzed. The doctor prescribed him vitamin D. That cured him completely.

    At summer solstice, there is nineteen hours twenty minutes of daylight. Civil twilight lasts all night. At highest, the sun is 52 degrees from the horizon. That means UV-index 6 at worst. It can do real damage but it requires even light-skinned people a lot longer exposure than the 10+ index typical of the Mediterranean summer or the tropics throughout the year.

    Like


  342. Tupac:

    I once met an albino Samoan. The guy was built like a linebacker and huge. The hair and complexion combined with his size and features made him almost unearthly looking. It was impossible not to notice him. He was rather reserved and soft-spoken, though. Considering the outdoorsy aspect of Polynesian social life, he probably was rather unsocialized.

    Like


  343. on January 4, 2009 at 2:38 pm Steve Johnson

    Markku,

    I think the whole thing comes down to sexual selection.

    The easier it is for a woman to provide enough food to feed her kids and have them survive, the more the race will tend towards having men who are ideal for women: violent, impulsive, verbal, charming, muscular, good dancers, huge cocks, etc. The more women need men to supply them with food, the more men will select women based on their tastes: blond hair, light eyes, fair skin, less muscular, age badly (so men can tell youth in women), etc.

    Just a guess really but it does fit the evidence.

    Like


  344. Steve J., I was trying to answer the question why the acquisition of food might have been easier in the tropics than in the temperate and arctic zones. The answer that the wet tropics have a twelve month growing season is not adequate even there population growth eventually causes food shortage. My hypothesis is that because tropical diseases caused high mortality (in the absence of modern medicine), the limits of carrying capacity weren’t as easily reached by human populations in the tropics.

    Like


  345. Markku,

    That was the thought process I was trying to show Wounded Animal, but I started realizing that he was too emotionally invested in believing that differences in race and IQ had ZERO external causes and that superior median IQ in whites came about spontaneously without any explanation except innate, inherent superiority. When I pushed him through Socratic dialogue to a point in the argument where he’d be forced to admit that SOME external cause had to be at play SOMEwhere at some point in time, he obviously became uncomfortable and suddenly claimed he “didn’t know and didn’t care” about the causes of the different median IQs. Yet for someone who didn’t know and didn’t care, he jumped right back into the very debate he claimed he didn’t know anything about or care anything about whenever he thought he had a chance of winning the argument again. Which shows that the truth isn’t that he doesn’t care to know, he only doesn’t care to know when intellectually inconvenient evidence that conflicts with his notion of whites being smarter solely through internal drive and self-creation without owing anything at all to external factors. My guess is that he is very disappointed with his inability to live up to the level of greatness he feels entitled to and severely believes his self-worth is tied into connecting himself with the achievements of his ancestors, and if he admits that ANY part of the greatness of his ancestors is connected to external influences like geography, climate, fertility of soil, available livestock, difficulty of living conditions, it will end up lessening the achievements and worth of his ancestors and by implication lessen his own self-worth too. And living vicariously through the achievements of others rather than your own individual contributions is pretty beta. I doubt any wildly successful person of any race who was proud of his individual accomplishments would focus on such things, he’d be too proud touting his own great accomplishments. To excessively gloat about what your ancestors did as if you did them to me is as dumb as black people who bellyache about how ancestors’ slavery entitles them to modern benefits as if they themselves went through it.

    The funny thing is, admitting that external stimuli played a role doesn’t lessen the great achievements of whites throughout history in any way. And denying that external stimuli played a role in how different races and IQs evolved doesn’t in any way make Wounded Animal’s current value as a person any higher, because no matter what your final conclusions are about whites in the past and their achievements, it still doesn’t change the fact that Wounded Animal had no more to do with their achievements than a modern day African does. What his long past ancestors did has zero reflection on his current value to society today.

    Like


  346. on January 5, 2009 at 3:49 pm Turkeybaster115

    Dynamo Kiev, the word “race” has its roots in the 1700’s, where adaptation was the main arguement used to describe why the various peoples of the world looked the way they looked. The main theories tried to show that it was their geography and climate that was responsible for the way they looked, and thus geography and climate drove change in humans over long periods of time. This as we know today is completely false. Not bad for 1700’s, but this was before evolution, in the 1800’s and the discovery of DNA’s structure in the 1950’s. Now “race” outside the scientific community, is a social construct, because the things that are used to classify ones “race”, consists of things you observe on the outside, like skin color, hair, language, etc. It is completely maleable, and varies in interpretation from individual to individual, and from generation to generation. American “Race” talk is unique to immigrant nations, where individuals from various homogenious nations from around the world left due to famine, wars, etc.

    Like


  347. on January 5, 2009 at 11:33 pm Steve Johnson

    Yeah, turkeybaster115, you’re probably right.

    All that race stuff was made obsolete by the theory of evolution. First expressed in Charles Darwin’s classic: On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life. Yep, no race there.

    Now that we’ve discovered DNA and the human genome project exists, we know better. That’s why they chose to sequence an African, an Asian and a Caucasian and why you can tell someone’s race by looking at their genome.

    Like


  348. on January 6, 2009 at 10:07 am Turkeybaster115

    Steve, you’ve just proved that race is a social construct. You use the word African to describe a race. This is deeply flawed because not all africans are “Black”. Egyptians have been there for thousands of years, and they aren’t black. Northern Africans are light skinned, and South African has had black settlers since the 1800’s. So if they sequenced the African Genome they would have found Caucasian Genes there. The second word for race you chose to use is Asian. Philipinos look exactly like the Japanese! Yeah right. and finally did you know that all Caucasians came from India? so there should be some Asian genes in the Caucasian genome.

    Like


  349. Turkeybaster still hasn’t explained why a black Nigerian couple will NEVER produce a child that looks Korean. Even if they move to Seoul and start calling themselves Chong-Jool and Jin-Yee.

    Race within the human specie is not arbitrary/random, or a cultural artifact. Instead, it follows a taxonomic pattern that looks like a tree with branches: a common ancestor group branches out, and under natrual selection pressures, evolves over generations to adapt itself to new climates or other selection pressures.

    “The second word for race you chose to use is Asian. Philipinos look exactly like the Japanese!”

    “Asian” is just an American shorthand for people from East Asia. It used to be “Oriental.” That doesn’t deny the fact that the Japanese and Philippinos once had a common ancestor group that people of other races didn’t, and that group branched out to different parts of Asia and continued evolving along separate lines. And 200 years ago the Philipino line merged somewhat with the Spanish genetic line, and so on.

    Again, if race isnt a scientific, taxonomically-explained fact, then people would have children of random races. Obviously that doesn’t happen. In reality, all people have children that look like an aggregate sum of their ancestrors.

    Like


  350. on January 6, 2009 at 3:52 pm Turkeybaster115

    PA, are you familiar with the scientific fact that genetically, speaking, we are 99% similar to apes? a Nigerian and a Chinese have the exact same genes for skin color, only instead of being inherited as a pair of dominant melanin genes, it is a pair of melanin deficient recessive genes in the Chinese, hence their pale appearance. As a person who spent his formative years in Nigeria I can tell you that an albino(person with recessive skin genes), with their blond hair, green eyes, and white skin, looks very identical to a Scandinavian, coming from two completely black parents.

    PA said quote: “Race within the human specie is not arbitrary/random, or a cultural artifact. Instead, it follows a taxonomic pattern that looks like a tree with branches: a common ancestor group branches out, and under natural selection pressures, evolves over generations to adapt itself to new climates or other selection pressures.”

    once you mention climate, brother, you fall for the racial adaptation argument of the 1700’s which I am trying to train you kiddies away from. The last part of your argument falls flat when you look at the Anglo Dutch people of south Africa which have been living there for the past two centuries. Go there your self, and you can see that the climate has not changed their appearance one bit. They have mated amongst themselves exclusively, and only micro evolutionary changes have occurred. in order for evolutionary changes to occur, mating patterns have to change. race is the outward manifestation of centuries of inbreeding amongst certain gene pools/populations.

    PA wrote: “Again, if race isn’t a scientific, taxonomically-explained fact, then people would have children of random races. Obviously that doesn’t happen. In reality, all people have children that look like an aggregate sum of their ancestors.”

    If race was a scientific taxonomically recognized fact then we would have scientifically assigned names to the different races like they did in the 1700’s. e.g. Caucasoid (describing all of Europe,) italianoids (European sub-race), armenioids, and for Africa we have Cuboids, and congoids. Note, since the scientific community abandoned race after evolution became popular in the 1800’s, people on the street began using words like: black (skin color), white, Hispanic(language), Caucasian(Caucasoid?), Asian (continent), etc. this is why it is a “social construct.”

    Like


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