Study: May-December Romance is Normal, Natural, And The Way Of The Superior Man

This is a shibboleth-smashing study sure to give ugly feminists (but I repeat myself) and game-hating tradcons the hives.

Attachment Styles of Women-Younger Partners in Age-Gap Relationships.

Women have evolved to seek an older mate, however, research has shown negative opinions toward these relationships if the age-gap is significant. The most popular opinion is that women who date men that are 10 years or more their senior have an unhealthy relationship with their father. We investigated women-younger partners in age-gapped heterosexual romantic relationships to see if they differ in attachment styles when compared with women in similar-age relationships. We predicted that women in age-gap relationships will be predominantly securely attached, because it is evolutionary beneficial for women to seek older mates, and that there will be no significant difference in attachment styles between women in age-gap versus similar-age relationships. The common belief that the women who choose much older partners because of having “daddy issues” was unfounded in this study. There was no significant difference in attachment styles between the 2 groups, and 74% of the women in age-gap relationships were securely attached. Results are consistent with the limited literature on age-gap relationships regarding attachment style and relationship satisfaction. This study adds to the growing body of literature on attachment style and offers insight into the less-explored age-gap relationship dynamic.

There’s nothing psychologically unhealthy about an older man seeking a much younger woman or a younger woman loving a much older man. “Daddy issues” is just the butthurt bleat of envious beta males and bitterbitch aging females desperately trying to pathologize a natural expression of love and passion-inducing sexual polarity.

This is yet more laboratory proof from the whitecoats affirming the field observations of the common man; in this case, that women place less emphasis on men’s physical attributes than men do on women’s physical attributes, and more emphasis on other attractive male traits like personality, social status, resources, dominance, self-possession, confidence, and maturity.

So men, go ahead and fall in love with that barely legal beauty. You have less to worry about her motivations than you do about the jealousy and resentment you’ll provoke in everyone else who can’t stand to see you happy.


  1. Off topic for the post, but on topic with a lot of what has been discussed here as far as alpha male leaders. Putin likes The Donald.


    • this made my day


    • A successful Trumpening will yield better relations with Russia than once thought. And previous estimates were optimistic to begin with.


      • on December 17, 2015 at 9:17 am Captain Obvious

        After Trump builds The Wall on our Southern Border, I want him to build a huge towering magnificent bridge/tunnel masterpiece, across the Aleutian Islands, connecting Alaska to Russia, and then inviting Russia into NAFTA, plus also a new NPTO counterpart to NATO.


      • That’s why I laugh every time I listen to any other candidate talk about Russia – they all want to “punch (him) in the nose” or “build up the military fleet under his nose” or “not talk to him” or something else that pushes us closer to World War III.

        In contrast, Trump is measured and reasonable. He’s not a Russianophobe (or whatever). He likes, or at least respects, Putin.

        Trump also knows that Putin doesn’t respect Obama. We all know, in fact, that Putin disrespects Obama. Look at the recent example of how they met in closed doors for several hours, and the next day Putin was bombing Syrian rebels while the Obama Administration was lamenting surprise by the actions.

        Here’s some good information, including an O’Reilly-Trump interview transcript, about how Trump views Putin and a relationship.


      • Hilariously, Carly Fiorina’s answer during the debate on Russia and Putin was to give him the silent treatment.
        AKA the most womanly and bitchy response possible.

        So glad that all it took Donald to nuke her chances was to say “Look at that face!”


      • on December 17, 2015 at 10:10 am Captain Obvious

        Then in his second term, I want Trump to join with Putin to build a magnificent wall across the entirety of Russia & Eastern Europe’s southern border, and then invite all of them into a White Free Trade Zone, and let the muds and the nogs and the Mohammedeans live in their natural state of squalor and thuggery and R-Selected misery.


      • on December 17, 2015 at 10:35 am The Target and the Gun

        lzozozozzo #it’sactuallyhappening Trump and Putin will get together and talk about ensuring a future for white children.


      • on December 17, 2015 at 10:39 am The Target and the Gun

        In related news, Ezra Klein finds all of this very #scary.



      • on December 17, 2015 at 10:41 am The Target and the Gun

        Sorry but it is all so maddening. One more:

        Of course neither Ezra Klein nor the leftist majority of the United States Supreme Court has any problem whatsoever with a local government in the United States stealing the property (lawfully purchased guns) of UNITED STATES CITIZENS without any (let alone just) compensation.

        Ezra Klein is just the worst of the worst.


      • Mel Gibson, it’s transparent Putin doesn’t respect Obama. There’s a picture of the two with Putin holding Obama by the tie and it didn’t seem photoshopped


      • on December 17, 2015 at 11:25 am The Target and the Gun

        Breaking News Alert!!!! Ezra Klein reports that all of this is “scary”.


      • “any other candidate talk about Russia – they all want to “punch (him) in the nose” or “build up the military fleet under his nose” or “not talk to him” or something else that pushes us closer to World War III.”


        We need to get the psychopaths away from the gasoline and matches.


    • I’m just waiting for a Trump-Putin spot the alpha picture.


      • on December 17, 2015 at 1:51 pm Captain Obvious

        We need a major serious in-depth well-thought-out essay by CH concerning the SMV of PAUL RYAN, Pecker of the U.S. House of Cuckresentatives. Dated a noggette in college, grew a hipster beard, COMPLETELY CAVED ON EVERYTHING in the budget bill. On a scale of 0 to 10, I’d place Paul Ryan’s SMV solidly at -1.


      • on December 17, 2015 at 1:52 pm Captain Obvious


      • CO, never trust a man with two first names.


      • I bet her voice is deeper than his.


      • on December 17, 2015 at 1:58 pm Captain Obvious



      • Did you even read the drudge article? It explained why most of the bill was due to the fact that Paul Ryan has not been the speaker long enough and there were parts that were pro-business such as the oil imports and business taxes. It was a decent compromise considering Obama is POTUS.

        [CH: $1.4 billion to resettle syrian refugees in america. that’s all you need to know. ryan is a filthy unprincipled cuck, just like the rest of them. DOTR waits for him too.]


      • Paul Ryan epitomizes the results of how eskimos have successfully pulled the entire political spectrum leftward.

        Paul Ryan, a “conservative”. Lol.
        -hipster beard
        -moon cricket girlfriend
        -sells out party for self gains


      • Paul Ryan is an astonishingly puerile looking man. Has he even bought a suit that fits yet?

        Back in ’12, I tried to be supportive for the ticket’s sake, but really, it was just embarrassing how Ryan looks like a 20-year old who takes his laundry home to mom. And the ill-fitting suits. He looked like some Education major going to a middle school interview for a Social Studies teacher opening.

        I wonder if there’s a Picture in his attic that keeps his other ball?


    • Both Putin and Trump have hot younger wives.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Did the washington shitpost just seriously use the fucking term “bromance” in relation to the future fuhrer and his eastern counterpart? And these faggots wonder why no one takes them seriously.


  2. Trump has been married three times. The wives are born in 1949, 1963 and 1970. You see what he did there.

    This is one thing the media haven’t attacked him for, possibly because the media owners all do the same. In their cases they often have children with a Tribe woman first, and then marry a younger White or Chinese woman.

    Trump is lucky we don’t live in Medieval times. In that case King Trump I may have been forced to marry Hillary von Hildebeast in order to unite the realm.


  3. Good find, CH. This reminds me of the study of men and women in dating sites, where men set the preferred age of a mate lower than themselves, and the older the men were, the wider the window.

    There is also the study showing men’s and women’s preferred age for a mate. Women set the man’s age about two years older than themselves. So, the older the woman in the study, the older the preferred man. (Though I think they also became more accepting of a man a few years younger as they reached older age.)

    Men on the other hand set the preffered age of a mate first at 19, then as the men got older they set it at 20, 21. And it stayed there.

    Also points to how men are more prone to look at a topic without considering themselves, while for women, Jews and leftists it is always personal. The men simply note that women around the age of twenty are the most attractive, the most healthy and energetic – and their own age doesn’t change that. The women in the study looked at a mate’s ideal age only in relation to their own. As a wise man wrote, “For women it is personal or it is nothing.”

    This is something nationalist parties always have to be aware of when writing about immigration, as I have had to point out many times. You would like to simply state the statistical facts that show the whole picture, but alas. You have to show one or two people instead, no matter how irrelevant that is other than as an illustration of the whole picture, which to an intelligent mind shouldn’t need any illustration.

    Liked by 1 person

    • on December 17, 2015 at 8:32 am Mandy been here a while

      The data set is from Okcupid and the charts are rather stark. The founder of Okcupid, Christian Rudder analyzed the data and wrote an article titled “the case for older women.”

      If he really wanted to maximize the number of happy couples, he should have called it the case for older men. Those pair bonds are likely to actually form.

      I guess more single women makes him more money


    • Is this the study you meant? It’s from OKCupid:


    • on December 17, 2015 at 6:50 pm Vagina dominator

      @ Arbiter
      “Also points to how men are more prone to look at a topic without considering themselves, while for women, Jews and leftists it is always personal.”

      Quite right. I posted an opinion here recently observing that atheists regard themselves as perfectly rational yet certainly believe (as many of us do) in all kinds of impossible ideological phantasmagoria (such as the doctrines of equalism).

      The reaction of one commenter?

      1. NA(Atheists)ALT
      2. Solipsism/but I am a snowflake/I don’t believe those things.
      3. Ignore substance of argument and begin atheist-plaining why there really isn’t any god (I don’t care)

      There is no point talking to them. They just don’t seriously read or listen.


  4. on December 17, 2015 at 8:00 am Mandy been here a while

    Sorry OT but did you read what Ryan just signed? White america is finished. We exist for them to bleed taxes out of.


    • White America is not finished. Paul Ryan is finished. He’s Boehner with a beard


    • If there’s ever A Day of The Rope, he will one of the first in line.


    • on December 17, 2015 at 6:57 pm Vagina dominator

      “We exist for them to bleed taxes out of.”

      Yes. The poz doesn’t pay for itself. It lives off accumulated white work and financial and social capital (morals, ethics, belief systems, social structures).

      The poz is entirely destructive, like burning the furniture at the end of all night party and it won’t end until whites are completely broke.

      But tens and tens of millions of whites will still remain.

      Then we’ll see some crazy stuff.


  5. Amen, CH. Older men, younger broads. The way the world was meant to be.


    • Yes this is an exact line I use… “it’s natural”… It’s not daddy issues or that the girl is fucked up… it’s natural. Women like being with confident guys, guys with lot’s of life experience, who demonstrate calm and unruffled persona while defusing shit tests… It’s natural. It’s far easier to be that guy as an older dude, you been to the show, the rodeo, the circus… you can tap into all that life experience and importantly DEMONSTRATE this by your actions and demeanor.

      I’ve been poor, been wealthy, been scared, triumphed, faced death, welcomed life… all that can be channeled and when it is it is a gravitational force. IF you exercise it. what happens is most guys just don’t exercise it, because they fall for the conditioning. The only people who hate on young girl older dude are older women and younger guys… think about that.

      Now you will face age related shit tests… good. easy to pass.

      HB:”OMG like how old are you?”
      Old Hand: “me… come close it’s a secret” [stare at neck, lick lips, whisper in ear while pulling close by wrist] “I’m a thousand… I’m a vampire” [push her away]

      HB:”Isn’t it weird, like your daughter is my age”
      Old Hand: “It’s natural. I’m a man, you’re a woman. You feel it.”

      HB:[hand stroking your eye] “So what’s this here, wrinkles…?”[shit testing]
      Old Hand:”it’s not the years it’s the miles”

      And as the guy, when you get with a girl half your age or less… it is totally natural for you as well. It is easy to lead her, to laugh at her silly girlishness, to not see her as an equal, to relax have fun and enjoy the experience of teaching her about life and things she has no idea of…


      • on December 17, 2015 at 9:39 am Captain Obvious

        CH: “So men, go ahead and fall in l0ve with that barely legal beauty.” ——— Only nit I might pick here is the definition of “L0VE”. “L0VE” as brought to you courtesy of the Eskimo Psychiatrists who write the J00lyweird movie scripts is just so much horsesh!t & nonsense intended for vulnerable at-risk teenaged Shiksa girlz. “L0VE” for a man is BUNZ -> 0VEN, strict moral supervision over the domicile, standards which will be adhered to, and Rock of Gibraltar during the inevitable Category 5 Sh!tstorms [followed by furious makeup $ex afterwards, leading to more BUNZ -> 0VEN].


      • this image sums things up perfectly… the natural pairing of older guy younger girl allows each to manifest their true selves most honestly and complimentary… yin and yang

        Him – wisdom, experience, strength, dominance, leadership, forethought, caring, protection

        Her – beauty, playfulness, submission, following, softness, fantasy, sexuality


      • Beautiful picture and nice sum-up, Sent.


      • That’s life around my house.


      • on December 17, 2015 at 3:44 pm Captain Obvious

        > “Her – beauty, playfulness, submission, following, softness, fantasy, sexuality” ——— AND FERTILITY. If the dude dipped it in chicks his own age, they’d have sandpaper vag’s and shrivelled up raisins for ovaries.


      • But don’t you get it, Cappy, women want to be with men their own age, so guys have to settle for sandpaper! HAHA!

        Nice adjunct, Fertility most necessary.


      • Good add.. Cap. I meant to also say that each sex is at their most optimal for attraction… hence most natural… the young woman will never be sexier nor the man more attractive… Peak


      • @Sentient The 24 year old I’m banging and who sends me daily nude selfies while she’s been traveling last 4 months…started shit-testing me the other day in texts:

        Her: Old Man and the sea…you are

        Me; Nahhh

        Her: you are..

        Me: I’m Benjamin Button, soon I’ll be a sperm. That ended that line of shit-testing.


      • on December 18, 2015 at 8:30 am Captain Obvious

        WW, that was an AWESOME line.


    • Those of you scoff at Christianity ponder this- which moral codes reinforce patriarchy? Hint, it’s not the POZ ones.


  6. […] Study: May-December Romance is Normal, Natural, And The Way Of The Superior Man […]


  7. I think the only issue I would have, if my daughter decided to marry somebody 10 years older than her is that the back end of that is going to be hell. I watched all the grandma, great aunts in my family outlive their spouse by an average of 9 years. And they were only 1-2 years younger (getting married around 17-20 does that). Toss on an extra 7 years to that is nuts. They are going to be lonely.


    • I have every intention of creating that. The women were only lonely because the other end of the equation was probably missing- grand children around the corner or in the same house. I expect my wife to remain faithful to my memory. She will be an Alpha widow anyway. The memory of another man just undermines the memory of you. I want them telling the great great grand children what a swell guy I was. True reverence only happens after death.


  8. on December 17, 2015 at 8:17 am Laguna Beach Fogey

    I approve of this message.

    Maybe it’s just me, but I’ve noticed a greater willingness on the part of young women (19-early 20s) to bang and/or date older men.

    May it continue.


    • 50 is closer than 40 for me. I did well with women in my 20’s – never realized I was slaying it until the intarwebz showed us what normal for men actually is – being on the hunt all the time made it feel like I wasn’t getting as much as I wanted, but apparently I got a lot. But if I knew then what I know now… well, I’d have been dead from heart failure with a dick worn down to a nub by 35. It is *so* easy to get inside a younger woman’s head and it’s more worthwhile in a lot of ways; her head hasn’t been filled with dumb ass ideas and rationalizations, she’s more straightforward and it’s just nicer. It’s easy to have a cocky, commanding and easygoing attitude with your wife when you know that if she decided to leave, it’d entail more gym time (something I wouldn’t mind anyhow) and a little effort, but there would be opportunities and fun to be had. These are the worst of times, but because the knowledge is out there if you’ll accept it, they’re the best of times too.


    • Hear hear!

      I just celebrated my 52nd in the company of the 24 yo blonde I’ve been seeing for a while now. A good time was had by all.


  9. Based on my experiences and observations, when you see a man over 30 with a significantly younger woman, she’s either a gold-digger, a mail-order bride, a paid escort or a fug SingleMom who has very grudgingly come to the cold conclusion that she does NOT have ANY other options.
    ‘Studies’ aside, practically all women 16-55 seem to want men 16-28, and would be perfectly ok with it if all men who aren’t multi-millionaires or very good-looking (& famous) movie stars committed collective suicide on their 30th birthdays.
    I know, I know: “Bud…bud…bud wuddabou’ Steve McMuthafucking QUEEN !!??!!”
    Nothing, that’s wud.


    • Pure KJ stuff wolfie… My reality defies your description… On any given night an older guy (i’m 48) with some game can hit the street and pull a hot 20 YO girl who will fuck him and never know his name, wher ehe lives or see him again – let alone attempt to dig for gold…

      Young guys should be thankful most older guys stay home at night…


      • 100% true


      • Confirmed (49) No dad jeans here…Multistrada’s and Heli-Skiing.


      • on December 17, 2015 at 7:09 pm Vagina dominator

        Wolfie, you are thinking about older guys who are like a fat, waddling old dad. That won’t work. You have to be something to them. And as Sentient says, “my reality defies your description”.

        Consider the market for “mature” porn. Lots of guys whack off to old broads but typically not just any old bint, they have to satisfy some kind of conditions.

        Same for guys, except as is often observed, the parameters of male attraction are quite varied.

        And as for the gold-digger thing, where the fuck is xsplat when you need him?


    • on December 17, 2015 at 8:30 am Laguna Beach Fogey

      Show me a woman who isn’t a gold-digger. On a certain level, all of them are. Accept it and use it to your advantage.


      • Hey would you mind floating me a 20?


      • It’s a male logic construct to impute that women are gold diggers… we should all agree by now that women are childish, not rational and have poor future time orientation… what’s the refarin over and over and over on this site… they ride the carousel UNTIL they hit the wall BECAUSE they have these traits… YOLO Girlzzzz!!!! #SITC

        Otherwise, 18 YO women would be holding themselves back as virgins and auctioning marriage off on Ebay…

        Now will women take money from thirsty beta payors and enablers… well of course, they will eat all the chocolate you offer them as well.


    • I don’t care why a woman lets me fuck her when I’m fucking her.

      And ultimately it is unknowable anyway.


      • “Oh but you have to love them.” – said in a certain tone of voice, sarc x3

        And ultimately it is unknowable anyway.

        Ah the beginnings of wisdom. It is a long and joyous journey.


      • Smartly done! Never heard it stated more deftly.



      • on December 17, 2015 at 7:11 pm Vagina dominator

        I used to say that the most beautiful women in the world is the one with my dick in her mouth.


    • I guarantee you that they are alpha or have the trappings of an alpha: looks, status, wealth and life experience. Furthermore, men do age much more gracefully than women. Perhaps the older men you are thinking of are either methuselahs or didn’t take care of themselves and their lack of health (and the disgust this leads to) outweighs the benefits of their age?


    • Give me a break.

      practically all women 16-55 seem to want men 16-28, and would be perfectly ok with it if all men who aren’t multi-millionaires or very good-looking (& famous) movie stars committed collective suicide on their 30th birthdays.

      Yeah but who cares? Who cares about their opinions and feels? Their opinions and feels are worthwhile conversation from the point of view of anthropology – but as for what they are?

      Women want a hard dick. It doesn’t even have to be big. They want to suck your blood.


    • Your experience betrays you m’good boy.


    • Well that may be some of the time, or even most…but not all the time.

      I have a 22 year old here now, who I am trying to find a way to politely tell to GTFO, gd she is driving me nuts at this point, i want my silence back. Plz make it stop lol

      Tons of young chicks dig older men just because we are cooler


      • And b/c we’re not “boys”….I’m trying to drill some of this into my son’s head – but he’ll have to learn on his on – stuff like ordering women around, that you can get away with far more than you think, to make the freakin’ decision, to say no, etc etc etc – all the good stuff CH reminds us of on a daily basis.

        The young women I’ve date have had their reasons – maturity, status, experience, lack of playing video games, that I’ve been fixed and we can fuck all we want w/o getting preggers, no walk of shame, etc – but as was so eloquently said above, who really cares about the reason?


      • Exactly. You know how to wear which shoes with which tie and which coat and put it on and look like you wear one regularly because you do. Ultimately women are looking for someone to protect them and take care of them and be interesting in the process. If you’re interesting, which means you give them tingles, you get all the sex you want from them.


    • lol. Trol gonna troll.


      • Hey, if you want to continue to read each others’ Penthouse letters, go right ahead.
        This isn’t so much the place where pretty lies perish as it is the place where you replace the lies women tell you with the fish stories you tell each other.
        Which I’m sure you will continue to do.


      • rofl. the only fish stories here are when your mom opens her legs.

        troll rape!


  10. The other interesting part is the “no significant difference in the pairings” and the 74% are securely attached part.

    There is one significant group that has problems with attachment: those people with personality disorders and I wonder if that number is a more accurate reflection of the number of NPD, BPD, HPD and ASPD women there really are out there.

    There is a lot of cover in society for women that are sociopatic so I would not be surprised if it is significantly more prevalent than male sociopathic behavior.

    Women are expected to be a little crazy, their “feminine mystique,” its the man that made them that way, plus they’re version of sociopathic behavior tends to be less direct, as women are less direct in love and everything else.


  11. James Bond approves


    • Whenever a girl starts bitching about “cradle robbing” dudes or some girl with “daddy” issues….

      ask her if she’d sleep with Sean Connery, George Clooney, or Harrison Ford. Right now.

      The pause they will give you before their hamster spits out an ego-protecting answer is all the counter-argument you need.

      Daddy issues rape!


  12. on December 17, 2015 at 8:31 am Laguna Beach Fogey

    Mrs. Peter Brimelow.


    • That guy has a great head of hair – and the vain face to go with it.

      My hair is light brown (“good as blond”) and barely graying and grows like weeds.


    • Talk about vanity.

      All is vanity

      On the one hand, it means that everything in the world is driven by a man’s want.

      On the other, … it is all for naught.

      It is in vain, my friend. Where are you going, what did you want. Now that we are at the end of things.



    Men always knew about this – he have in in our blood, in our genes. Only by perversion through society some are confused and cannot detect the truth within them any more.


  14. The best answer to the haters is simply to say:

    “Love is love” why you got to hate on it?


    • Most of the haters will be liberals, too, as they tend to be self-loathing and jealous. So if we connect the dots here, then being liberal means they most likely support homosexuality and use bullshit lines like “love is love” to justify the sodomy and mental state of homosexuals. At this point, you’ve caught them in a trap, and we all know what a pig does when it’s corned.



  15. on December 17, 2015 at 8:35 am Laguna Beach Fogey

    Older broads are kidding themselves if they think men their own age are going to date them when they have other options.


    • An older broad who still looks good, has something going for them, as a person.


      • “An older broad who still looks good…” is using a ton of make-up and other artifices to look good. Take their clothes off and there’s no way they can come anywhere close to a 20 yr. old. Or even dressed, look closely:

        Leathery/crepey skin, wrinkles, cellulite bumples, mis-colored skin, veins everywhere, general sagging all over, even those who work out, all other bodily defects enhanced–my fav is where one saggy breast is significantly larger than the other…..If they had kids, their bodies generally are just awful! Stylish dress and make-up can hide a lot of aging’s faults. But just take off the “romance” glasses and look closely, all that bad/ugly sh*t is still there.


      • Leathery/crepey skin, wrinkles, cellulite bumples, mis-colored skin, veins everywhere, general sagging all over, even those who work out, all other bodily defects enhanced–my fav is where one saggy breast is significantly larger than the other…..

        What is the sound of one hand fapping?


    • I remember clearly my great uncle in his 80s. The most natural alpha I’d ever come across in my life. Cowboy boots wearing southern boy through and through. Served in the infantry in WWII. Had a May/December marriage with his wife who was 15 years younger than him.

      Even into old, old age (he lived to 92), she absolutely worshipped him. He used to sit in a big leather chair in his ranch style farmhouse with a glass of whiskey in his hand telling us kids war stories. He’d relentlessly tease my great aunt in a fun, good natured way… Always with a gleam in his eye. “She cain’t cook, but she sure is purdy.”

      She kept a little stool at the foot of his chair, and he’d call out to her in the kitchen between stories — “Darlin’ freshen up my drink would you please and then get over here and keep me company.” She’d actually sit on this little stool at his feet while he reminisced and told jokes and stories and she’d just gaze up at him enraptured and transfixed. His demeanor and confidence and swagger were totally infectious and to this day I’ve never encountered a more profound and deep love between a man and a woman.

      When he finally passed, she died two days later.


    • My wife told me to find a way to cure my erectile dysfunction. I did. She’s 22. Her name is Liz


    • And there is a lot of kidding going on, with the cosmetic industry (creams, cakes, colors) raking in billions a year by fooling older women that THIS is the magic formula, unlike the other hundreds of magic formulas peddled the last 100 years, that is finally going to stop the aging process and make them hawt, hawt, hawt, again.


  16. Most insane thing on Twitter today (But hey, the day is young) :

    Adam Baldwin actually got suspended for writing that GamerGate supporters are “much more attractive and joyous” than the SJWs. (And yes, it’s the Adam Baldwin. He has supported the GamerGate reaction from the beginning and reportedly coined the name in the first place. Loved you in FMJ, Adam!)

    This shows you can be suspended for almost anything. All it takes is that enough leftists report a specific post, alerting the leftists employed by Twitter.

    Nevertheless, you can write about race in a straightforward way without getting suspended. Big accounts like @genophilia remain despite being openly pro-White. And don’t think pro-White posts haven’t been reported countless times – but still apparently they don’t lead to suspension. So it seems to be a lottery.


    • I got blocked on LinkedIn just days into my book marketing campaign. And I was being a pro-corporate team player all the way. Maybe they thought the zipcode overlooking Central Park or my job title “Systems Engineer at Encorpera” was bogus. I have set up a twitter account but fear they will pull the plug the moment I say something rash or impudent.


  17. Yes, this makes sense. Back in high school I had little interest in boys my age. Even now my husband is a few years older. It makes a woman feel much more secure.

    And no daddy issues. I have a wonderful, no nonsense, Catholic father. He was/is the leader of the family and I used to wonder if my preference for older gentleman was because of the immense respect I have for him.


  18. Why do eskimos not want trump? In my facebook feed I see a lot of them as part of the anti trump group making statuses about how bad he will be for the country. As far as im concerned Trump has said things about latinos and muslims not eskimos, so why are they afraid?


  19. personality, social status, resources, dominance, self-possession, confidence, and maturity

    personality: check +++

    social status: check but black and white inverse sort of

    resources: check

    dominance: needs work

    self-possession: no

    confidence: yeah some

    maturity: ok


    All that shit is not on today’s to-do checklist – and it never will be.

    How do you rate?


  20. Is it just me, or is the assumption in the beginning that women who were attracted to men a decade their senior lowballing it, even for expectations of relationships between older men and younger women to be dysfunctional?


  21. on December 17, 2015 at 9:10 am The Spirit Within

    What’s really fun is talking about this basic fact of female psychology with an older woman (late 30s to 40s) on a date. Casually mention that all young women are attracted to older men, but that social conditioning has forbidden them from expressing it. Follow that with a story — real or fake — about a 22-yr-old that you banged who went totally sideways and how you had to cut her off.

    Then just let the story just sit there and cook between you like a steak cooling. It’s got everything–it shows preselection and high SMV, instills dread, demonstrates a ZFG tone, and can even be interpreted as a subtle neg (which she will of course do). I’ve used the same routine several times and it never fails.


    • I’ve used the same routine several times and it never fails.

      So you have have you?


    • why would I be on a date with a late 30s to 40s woman?

      See, I can actually get women half that age…why would I waste my time on fossils?


      • on December 17, 2015 at 12:48 pm The Spirit Within

        You’re a caricature. If you haven’t seen a still-hot older woman, you’re in the wrong zip code. Move to a city.

        [CH: it’s official. you’re a woman posing as a man. look disingenuous one, no one’s saying the RARE still-hot older woman doesn’t exist; but there are FAR FEWER of her kind than there are of her kind minus 20 years. and remember, every still-hot woman you claim to know looked hotter when she was younger.]

        I date younger too — had beers with one 12 yrs my junior a few weeks ago, and I’ve banged three in the last year (19, 22, and 25) — but I’ve got a strong streak of MGTOW in me. Can’t waste my time with useless young’uns (or useless commenters here); people gotta add value to my life. A vajay isn’t valuable. There’s four billion of them.

        [sour grapes. and why are you dating women when you are a woman? are you a lesbian?]

        My age policy: Any woman from 18 to 45 with a pretty face and a recognizably hourglass figure.

        [wonderful policy. guess what? in practice, (if you’re honest), your policy would screen out most women over the age of 35.]

        Legs are a plus. If she passes the boner test and doesn’t annoy me, I’ll give her a chance.

        [very few women over the age of 40 pass the boner test. this is a biomechanical fact of existence.]


      • Still hot older women look much better with their still hot far older husband.


    • Tsk, tsk… a good Catholic boy using (ahem) routines on lovelorn wimmens.

      Jesus wept.


    • …Follow that with a story — real or fake — about a 22-yr-old that you banged …

      Yes we know you are good with fake stories…


    • lmao. the faggot within, in another fantasy tale gone wrong, pretends that he’s a master player by bedding…desperate eggs-dried-up old women!

      Faggot Within rape!


    • At what point does comedy become tragedy?


  22. A fake story about a 22 girl you banged? Believable.


    • We have our very own transgender troll – don’t miss with the winning formula!

      And it sucks dicks too, you just have to ask it in a certain way.


  23. Male romantic heroes in media made by and for young women are not 40+ geezers.

    Sane women prefer men their age or a little bit older. Huge age gaps is an ibvious sign of childhood trauma.

    [CH: carpetmuncher = definitely a butthurt aging bitterbitch. the study findings in this post directly contradict what you say. but i understand it must be tough being an aging spinster with only the dregs of the dating market willing to step to you and caress your wrinkly hide.]


    • Huge age gaps is an ibvious sign of childhood trauma

      We are all traumatized by Life.

      So was i. I got my dick skinned – when i was only two days old. You can make it better by sucking it.

      I agree that in a perfect world, girls are not going to be with old guys. But in this world it is a different story.

      There is no perfect world. Old guys = success. Young girls = nice smell.


    • You mean like John Wayne, Cary Grant, Steve McQueen, Clint Eastwood, Sean Connery? Or do you mean George Clooney, Brad Pitt? Hmm.

      Sounds legit.


    • on December 17, 2015 at 1:01 pm Experienced Father

      The Tom Selleck episodes on FR|ENDS were very much about the 40(+) geezers getting the hot chicks.

      It’s there in really popular culture.


      • Ronnie wood is one of the ‘best’ I can think of.


      • on December 17, 2015 at 5:03 pm Mean Mr. Mustard

        A comment that I found over at The Rational Male.

        “Women complain of being treated like sex objects; yet they treat men as success objects.”

        A man wants young(er), hot and tight. It is the natural way of things.
        Women want a “successful” man and an older man that has his shit together is a success object.

        Also, an older man with his shit together can offer Alpha Bucks, as opposed to the Alpha Fucks/Beta bucks.


    • lol. your denial is showing.


    • I did an eleven year age gap. I outgrew it. Now I have twenty-three. And he’s a genius. I’ll never catch up. Thank God.


    • Carbondated, errrrr, I mean Carpenizer, it seems quite clear that you are a bitter 35+ years old woman. Most men do not think of other 40 year old men as “old geezers”. That is a belittling, weak term used by old, unattractive women, like you, who are butthurt because you are now invisible. Again, you are carbon dated, and the science says that you are, sadly, old and stale.


  24. OKCupid research shows young women don’t want men over 30:


    • Online website reports what women say they want… real life real time observations report otherwise. which is real?

      Go out… open your eyes.


      • These are the ages of the men they are messaging and responding to. The women didn’t know they were being studied.


      • Yes they are online with their checklist – rich 6’2″ astronaut who loves kittens and his mom and looks like a male model… Of course they all say they want this stuff… but who are women actually hooking up with?

        Walk around your town today and report back… LOL


      • They are not saying anything because no one has them a question.

        These are the ages of men they are actually messaging.


    • A study showing what women say they want.

      The room for the lesser half of the bell curve, … get ye there.


    • Never listen to what a woman says. Always watch what a woman does.

      Game 101, Carpetmuncher.


    • This is bogus to begin with because women are never honest about their age, especially when it comes to online dating.

      Whatever number is there for a woman, add 10 to it and that’s a closer approximation of their true age.


      • women are never honest

        Not a bug a feature… they can never be honest because their only truth is emotion and emotion changes by the moment, by the chemicals/hormones in her system… so their is no logical fallacy… she literally cannot be honest the way a man thinks of honesty. She is being consistent to her nature.


      • @Sentient

        very perceptive.


      • I’d say from experience, its closer to 4-5 years, rather than 10.


    • Stupid Cupid, stop pickin’ on me.

      Notice the sign on your very own graph says the age of men who look best to her.

      That’s quite a bit different than men they can and do want. I was under the impression it’s long been admitted, at the chateau and elsewhere, that women don’t truly care as much about looks as do men… for obvious reasons.

      Avaunt, tyro!


    • okcupid research shows that women SAY they don’t want men over 30


    • I think this chart shows what women say, not what they do.


    • You seem to be going through a lot of effort to disprove the thesis. Me senses butthurt somewhere along the event horizon. Have you reached the ‘point of no return’ (i.e., the Wall), Carbondated?


    • Carpy = White knight or chick??? I vote chick!


  25. I only started banging girls 30 or under this past year with one exception. The youngest was 21. She was too sexually inexperienced and clung to “feminism” which I called “Bullshit”. The best is 24….sends nude selfies to me every day…teases me that I’m “old” to which I reply…”24? you’re almost too old for me.” The crazy 27 year old I was banging this year called me an “Aging sex addict”—like that’s a bad thing. She was jealous I was banging other girls and lashed out. The one who’s been the steady one and coolest in my soft harem is 29 about to turn 30. You have to have game, be in shape, dress cool and not “seem” old….they want an older guy…they don’t want an OLD guy.


    • The worst is to be an old guy in spirit – cynical, defeated, jealous, butt hurt, angry, unsure, hopeless… these are not good feelz to women. Check inside your head before you check the mirror or your wallet.


    • “You’re only as young as the girls you are in.” *

      *This statement not sanctioned in all states. Check your local statutes.


  26. on December 17, 2015 at 9:30 am Teutonic Antagonist

    Funny how I’m not allowed to criticize gay relationships because what 2 adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom is none of my business. But bring up the topic of older man/younger women relationships and watch the hatred and and venom unleash.


  27. Average age gap for young women in dating is two to three years.

    The data is pretty clear on this. A young woman who dates a man 10+ years her senior is…highly unusual.


    • And it’s statistically improbable that all the geezers here who say they regularly date twentysomethings are being honest.


      • This proves your ignorance…

        Do you not consider that the men here who are reporting are a small subset of all men? The most successful men?


      • do you want pictures dude? I gots ’em. Tons.

        women want ALPHAS of any age. They don’t give a fuck about other intellectual factors.

        This is why this OKCupid quiz is STUPID. It’s asking women to select a mate based upon some abstract intellectual attribute…these have NO RELEVANCE to them in the actual moments of mate selection.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Eh, every thirty year+ guy I know either has a girl in her early twenties after him or is with one. As the millennial generation of guys drops the ball, just wait and see what happens. It’s a great time to be a high value, in shape older guy.


      • @Carpenizer – why would you say that? There are what – like 10-15 of us who post here with fair regularity – in a community of guys who like to pick up girls? Frankly, there should probably be more simply from selection bias.


      • @Carpethead
        To the person who lacks experience, clichés and boasting seem fake. Because the inexperienced can’t see how these things could ever happen. Because he hasn’t done it. When I look at my experiences with chics, and the circumstances of the encounters, I can see how a virgin would think that it couldn’t happen that way. You are thinking about how it SHOULD be, according to your experience (or lack thereof), instead of how it really IS. I’m guessing you’ve never met a chic and banged her within an hour of meeting. Not hookers or crazy sluts, just crazy (from the outside anyway) circumstances. Are you inexperienced, retarded, or a virgin? Or a combination of these choices? I’m through with your trolling now.


    • Are you new to this blog? Everything society has been doing for the last 60 years is highly unusual when compared with the thousands of years of our existence…. do you think 16 YO women circa 1000 BC were “dating” 16 YO boys? Or where they taken by 35YO tribal leaders?

      In 1300 who had his choice of young maidens? The Lord or the 16 YO serf boy?

      Are the silver back Alpha males the same age as their females?

      How old are you?

      Liked by 1 person

    • Your concern trolling is gay as fuck.


    • I agree it is unusual. I think a lot of it is that with society’s pressure against it, and the fact that most older guys are low value: settled, fat, boring, working crap jobs, etc, it is a rare phenomenon. My observation is that if you are a higher value older guy (fit, charming, powerful, etc), age really isn’t much of a factor when attracting younger women.


    • And the average man is a beta. Your point?


    • Men who date women ten years or younger are highly unusual statistically. What is your point? The best men still pull young women after they turn fifty. You’re right, I should turn down young beautiful, nubile FERTILE pussy for a bitter angry old woman because she might be damaged from the absence of a father in her life? Did it ever occur to you, that your bitter and evil dogma drives them into my arms? Why are you still single at your advanced age? That is the more important question at hand. Come the revolution, you will lose all political rights. Count on it.


  28. this reminds of my ancient grizzled hippie English teacher in college. she was in her late 60’s. she had her boyfriend, who was in his 30’s, give a demonstration one day. his special skill was being able to be kicked hard in the balls. we all lined up like Airplane to take a shot. it felt right to kick this dude in the nuts for having such an unnatural relationship.


  29. Had this conversation with my female coworker:

    Coworker: “Hey, my friend is single, want me to set you up with her?”
    Me: “How old is she?”
    Coworker: “37. She has a really good job and makes a lot of money too.”
    Me: “Nah. Too old.”
    Coworker: “What?! But you’re 35! That’s only 2 year difference!”
    Me: “My age is irrelevant. Look, let’s say within a year, your friend and I are engaged, another year after that we get married. Then what? I’m trying to have kids with a 40 year old woman? Forget it.”
    Coworker: “…huh. I guess I see your point.”


  30. Confirms reality. My last LTR was 11 years my junior. She had a strong bond with her family and strong father figure whom instilled in her a no ‘sharking policy.

    Reality wins again : )

    ❤ Reality ❤


  31. I enjoy teasing women who are 25 or 26. I tell them, “wow you’re closer to 30 than 20!” I’ll get the usual faux indignation, complete with their eyes lit up and their fists punching my shoulder. We all know what else is all lit up, though…


  32. on December 17, 2015 at 10:17 am Subarctic Hillbilly

    My son, in his early 20s, is an Adonis, tall, ripped, athletic and square-jawed. Really, a great-looking kid. But when he’s with me, it’s almost like he’s invisible. The ladies love the silver foxes.

    Now that I’ve passed the half-century mark, most of my peers have become even more invisible – fat, beaten down by shrews, eyes clouded with despair. But I got out of a bad marriage, rebuilt myself through heavy weights, team sports, low-carb eating, and now positively glow with vigor and sex. I was a decathlete in top military competitions in my early 20s, and have lost only between 10-15 percent of my speed and strength since.

    So I stand out even more, compared to my schlubby peers.

    There was a scene in the 1990s movie, “Guinevere,” (basically a remake of the Joseph Stiglitz-Georgia O-Keeffe relationship,) in which 19-year-old Sarah Polley’s parents come to rescue her from the clutches of the 50-year-old photographer, played by Stephen Rea. While the dad is telling her to pack, the mom, played by Blythe Danner, checks out the bookshelves, full of classics, the wine cellar, full of tasteful vintages, the impeccably framed art on the walls, etc. You can see her thought processes, “I wish an experienced, sexy older man had taken me as his protegé/f**k buddy when I was a college freshman, instead of the sweaty, spotty frat bros.”


  33. I’ve heard many beta males in the 30-35 age range say they’d rather have a woman over 30 because she’s “more mature” than a woman in her 20s, especially under 25. I’ve furrowed my brow at a few who’ve told me this, because I don’t know if the male hamster is loose in their heads or they truly believe it.


    • women over 30 are annoying. They are as annoying as women under 30, but less attractive.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Heh, heh… heh, heh.


      • on December 17, 2015 at 5:10 pm Mean Mr. Mustard

        In the Western World, vast swathes of women under 30 have grown into empty, vacuous, solipsistic, pseudo-empowered, overly-entitled cunts.
        Not a whole lot changes when they reach 30 and beyond.


    • Beta = thinking a woman is your equal.

      I suspect they believe it because they want to approach the relationship on a logical level and they don’t have enough experience to know that a) that will never happen even though it seems logical LOL and b) they haven’t learned how to pass the young girl shit tests so they are opting out.


    • Male hamster + sour grapes. They found that older women are easier, and that they themselves are too beta for the young hotties.


  34. Hmmm, geezers trying counter mountains of data with personal anecdotes and emotion.

    Just like feminists!


    • Response like that, now I’m sure your a woman. LOL “mountains” she says…


      • Spotted her first! Older women really want successful older alphas to stop dropping down 10-15 years and pay attention to their saggy tits and vein-laden legs. So they’ll push everything they can to show that younger women ” go only for men within 2-3 years of their own age”, despite swimming in visual proof of the opposite. A 45 YO woman simply cannot believe the type of 45 YO man that she targets (successful alpha) can easily go down 10-15 years in age group.

        Even funnier is their belief that men “appreciate” their credentials!!! ROTFLMAO!


    • That’s why you fail carpetmuncher; you believe that that 20 something HB would never be interested in your defeated personality. Self actualiazation, bro – its your fail.


    • Carpenizer is a woman or a low beta/concern troll…no real world difference.

      Her assertion that the graph above indicates “these are the ages of the men they are messaging and responding to” shows she is careless, at best.

      Here’s the full story about the graphs posted above:

      “To make these charts, Rudder looked at the preferences of OkCupid users…”

      So the ones selectively posted by Carpenizer DO NOT show the actual message patterns. These below are the actual message patterns:

      “Although men at every age seem to be attracted to very young women, they most often message women who are closer to their own age…
      “The age range of women men say they’re most interested in tends to fall within their own age range”…

      “The same goes for the women men message the most…”

      If these images don’t automatically imbed, very simply, on OKC most men actually message women close to their own ages, and most women actually message men close to their own ages. The data does not show “women don’t want men over 30”; it does not disprove hypergamy.

      What it does show, as the Chateau has pointed out many times, most men are beta:

      “And hardly any men in their 30s message 20-year-old women…”

      i.e., most men lack the stones to approach younger women…even online!

      We are on our honor at the Chateau. I’ve attracted/laid a 23 y.o. woman (me: 45 at the time, Dec. ’14 & Jan. ’15) based on the advice I found here. I believe the other regular commenters when they give similar field reports. Being systematic in your ways of attracting women works; a man’s age is not always a liability or a hard ceiling, it’s an asset if he has some game or learns some.


      • a man’s age is not always a liability or a hard ceiling, it’s an asset if he has some game or learns some.

        Love this. I enjoy being the age I am. More so than what I was ten years ago. I’m in better shape, better maturity, better outlook on life. In short, I love who I am. I know that intangible quality bleeds out whenever I’m strutting my way wherever I go. Time to work on closing.

        Love this site and its denizens!


    • rofl.

      the longevity of male sex symbols v. female sex symbols defies your lies, little denial bot.

      Denier rape!


  35. What gets me about all those old films, say Fred Astaire or Gary Cooper , is that they’re all romantically involved with young women yet they are all look about fifty.


  36. Seeing the deniers on this thread boggles my brain.

    Why do people argue so hard to defend limitations? Older dudes can land & keep young hotties. The wise proprietor of this site says it, the sages on this board say it, science says it, a glance at who high value men are boning shows it, my 18-years-younger-than-me girlfriend proves it. It’s true.

    If YOU aren’t boning youthful beauties & wish you were, ask yourself why. And make the tough changes to get what you want. Or don’t. And shut up.


    • No one denies that older men can “land & keep young hotties.” But, it is not the norm. All things being equal, most women would prefer a man close to her own age or maybe a couple of years older. A woman who prefers a much older man is not the norm.


      • Have you even been paying attention?

        A woman’s “preferences” are just back-rationalizations for emotions generated by herd-conditioning or vag-tingles. Generate change in either of those & watch them shift.

        And the day I live my life based on the “norms” of this sick society is the day I eat a bullet.

        Quit arguing & making excuses for settling.

        Liked by 1 person

      • I actually think it will be more common as the millennial generation of guys fails to man up. Younger women will look to older guys to fill basic needs.


      • Yes, but that’s because most men older than them became Bob, the accountant. If you start a couple of hobbies half assededly in your 20s, you will be pretty good at them in your mid 30s. If one of those requires athleticism, you’ll be fitter than most guys her age. Of course, if you seem like a boring loser(regardless if you are so or not), you won’t get young girls. Older guys also have a disadvantage in terms of logistics since you don’t go to school with them or whatever. Unless you do because you teach something somewhere(in Europe it’s legal to screw students if they’re over 18), your hobby involves stuff that younger girls like. So being the same age as them is an advantage in this sense, but with tinder now… I’ve understood from girls in a few other countries that a large part of the hooking up happens on tinder or at least they feel so. Anyway, don’t be a boring fuck. That’s what matters. And be smart. E.g. You can go volunteer for something practical and manly like planting trees. In my country there are many girls of uni age in organizations that clean the environment. Given that they have to do physical work, they’re not fatties either. Or you can go donate toys for poor children. Plenty of girls there too. All these girls are more sane than bar sluts too. I can come up with five more ideas of how an 35 to 40 years old guy could pick up 18 to 24 years old women.


      • “Quit arguing & making excuses for settling.”

        Who is making excuses for settling? I would encourage any single guy to be the best he can be and date any girl he finds desirable. I’m just pointing out that this idea that young, hot 20 year olds are lining up to date old men is ridiculous. Does it happen? Yes. Is it very common? No. Like I said, most women prefer a man their own age. You can overcome that bias but the idea that young, hot women prefer old men is the male equivalent of the rationalization hamster.


      • yeah because most much older men aren’t like I am.

        Do you GET IT YET?

        It’s not my age, dude, it’s WHO I AM.

        I have told you mfers over and over again what to do – BETTER YOURSELF. Women want to be entertained and girls just wanna have fun. Provide it by virtue of your presence.


    • Seeing the deniers on this thread boggles my brain.

      No shit. Not sure why guys would argue against. Unless they absolutely love women their same age or worse, older.


      • It is a fascinating dynamic, despite numerous guys 40+ saying here in real time to guys “Guys believe me the young girls are going to love you when you are 40+” – which is a totally positive message and affirming. these guys – with no experience to back it up, only opinion “sure brah” – persist in disbelieving…. And then they have the gall to say it’s male hamster… indeed but by whom???


      • on December 17, 2015 at 7:31 pm Vagina dominator

        On the general topic of men aging well, I’ve recently started doing some short-burst HIT stuff.

        BOOM! Immediate significant increase in sex drive and feelings of general well-being.

        So, sure, paleo and resistance, but a couple of times a week get that heartrate up there too.


      • on December 17, 2015 at 8:44 pm The Other Anonymous

        No matter – You can’t change the opinion of these zitty faced cock-blockers.


  37. on December 17, 2015 at 11:02 am Laguna Beach Fogey

    Older men rule, younger girls drool.

    Life is good.

    Liked by 1 person

  38. A game (ish) post after ages – thank you CH.

    Not that anyone on this blog really needs convincing (except Carpenizer lol) but guys, I’m an average looking 35 year old with prematurely greying hair (as much as a guy in his fifties).

    I regularly hit up kiddie nightclubs in jeans and a tshirt and gets tons of AIs and massive receptivity from college girls. My age is a total irrelevance. I can’t even remember off the top of my head (without thinking carefully) the ages of all the women I banged this year, but can immediately think of a 19 year old redhead (who I posted about here) and a 21 year old. I had another 19 year old home and on my couch before losing the lay to logistics, and went on dates with two more 18 year olds.

    And my Game skills are not all that great (albeit improving rapidly). If I can nail down my closing/escalation skills in clubs I would clean up even more.

    Sentient, HABD, Wala – I urge you guys to check out RSD Julien’s PIMP product which YaReally also recommended. Have been watching it lately and some really good concepts and some amazing infield clips which really blew my mind even at this stage (in one of them he convinces a hot girl in the middle of a nightclub to get down on her knees and beg him to kiss her. In another one he convinces a girl to jump the barrier of the smoking area in a club and join him at an afterparty..but watching his persistence, frame control and disarming her objections was like a real masterclass in Game – I lost count of how many times she said no before she actually let him pick her up over the smoking barrier).

    Also a good idea from Julien about how it is better to ask Interview Questions with the right frame and dominance instead of wasting time with long complicated stories..since the attraction is in the subcomms anyway, you may as well ask the girl Interview Questions..provided you have the subcomms down.


    • No one says that a 35 year old man can’t date younger women. Carpenizer is just pointing out the FACT that women prefer men their own age.

      And, the fact that you “regularly” hit up college bars and only banged 2 young girls all year kinda proves Carpenizer’s point. An average looking 22 year old guy hitting up college bars regularly and trying to score could easily bang 10-20 college aged girls during that same time period.


      • LOL yes sure the average 22 YO guy is laying 20 girls a year… How long have you been on this site Nathan?

        The fact you are pointing to is women messaging guys, not who they end up sleeping with.


      • Nathan, I didn’t say I only banged 2 young girls – I said I could only remember two off the top of my head without checking my journal etc (plus the ones I went on dates with and didn’t bang).

        Putting it in capitals doesn’t make it a FACT that women prefer guys their own age. I’ve seen the OKCupid data too (the guy who founded OKC wrote a book about it). It is one step better than a survey because it is an analysis of actual messages sent, and to that extent it is an analysis of revealed preferences (vs stated preferences on a survey).

        But revealed preferences about WHAT? Analyzing messaging data on OKC shows you that women do not typically respond well to 10+ years older men. I have no doubt that is true on OKC (in fact I’ve been on OKC and can personally attest it is true). But the flaw arises when you use it as a proxy for what happens in real world interactions – it simply does not map to real life.

        In OKC, women are surfing with their checklists for the 6’2″ astronaut (as someone said above) – in real life, they bang whoever gives them tingles and it is not that hard for an older guy to do it.


      • “LOL yes sure the average 22 YO guy is laying 20 girls a year… How long have you been on this site Nathan?”

        I’ve been reading this site for over 4 years. And, yes, an average 22 year old guy who guys out consistently and makes an effort into trying to get laid can easily bang 20 girls a year. Are you saying that a guy who goes out 3 times per week (156 times per year) cannot get laid 1/8 of the times he goes out? If you really believe that I have to wonder how long you’ve been on this site or how long it’s been since you were in college.


      • “Nathan, I didn’t say I only banged 2 young girls – I said I could only remember two off the top of my head without checking my journal etc”

        Then check your bang journal and get back with me on how many 18-25 year olds you banged last year. If you can remember minor details like girls you just talked to and didn’t get with, I doubt you were forgetting girls you banged.

        “(plus the ones I went on dates with and didn’t bang)”

        Which counts for nothing. Lots of young girls will use an older guy for a free meal at a nice restaurant.

        “Putting it in capitals doesn’t make it a FACT that women prefer guys their own age.”

        But it is a fact. Anecdotal evidence from guys posting about their experiences does not change reality. Go to any college venue and look at the guys the hot girls are dating. It’s almost always guys their ages or a couple of years older. That’s the norm. Like I’ve said a dozen times already — I’M NOT DENYING THAT OLDER MEN CAN SCORE WITH YOUNGER WOMEN. I’m just pointing out reality — that is not the norm and most women prefer guys who are their age and in their social group. The older you get, the less options you will have with younger women and the women will decline in quality. Men and women age differently, but men hit the wall, too — just much later.


      • “I’ve been reading this site for over 4 years. And, yes, an average 22 year old guy who guys out consistently and makes an effort into trying to get laid can easily bang 20 girls a year. ”

        Sweet little Nathan…. come now, how old are you son? This statement here shows you are straight up a KJ. I guy whose banged upwards of 40-80 young chicks by early 20’s is in the top 10% of men, look at the stats bro… that one would be so louche to suggest these notch counts are average or easy belies your lack of real world understanding and experience….

        hint – read less, go do more. report back…


      • @Nathan – we are rapidly reaching the point here where you are not responding to the key points people are making to you, but just to complete this train of thought:

        1. I just checked and it’s 4 women 18-25 in the calendar year for me. Plus quite a few older women. But the statistic is meaningless unless compared with some yardstick of what is a “good” number for what level of effort. As Sentient has said, your yardstick for the number of bangs a 22 year old guy gets is magical thinking. I think the stats are along the lines of around 10 lifetime lays for men in the United States on average.

        Also although that’s my number for the year, it effectively represents about 4ish months of active socializing and dating (too busy with work and travel the rest of the year).

        And the number of younger women I dated but didn’t bang is still relevant because it shows they were attracted to me to go out with me- you don’t get to dismiss them as saying “they were just using me free dinner” without knowing the circumstances of why we didn’t bang – in all cases, we only met for drinks and I didn’t pay for anything more than 1-2 drinks. There are several examples, but for eg, in one case I got a 19 year old home but she was so exhausted from being awake for 20 hours (work+college) she almost dozed off on my couch and I didn’t want to escalate like that. In another case I had bad a third case she was very intimidated by me (sheltered college freshman) and I screwed up on building comfort (not attraction) and so on..

        2. Let’s not move the goalposts here – of course I agree with you that a 22 year old who goes out regularly CAN get laid 1/8 of the times he goes out. But in practice, the vast majority don’t.

        3. Again I repeat, your assertions that younger women don’t like older men are not fact just because you say they are. You’re right that it’s factually less common (although your college example is a joke – umm, how many 40 year old undergrads do you know hanging out with college girls? ANd have you considered how many profs bang undergrads?) but it’s less common because of a lack of opportunity and exposure, not preference. I’ve already explained why the online dating example is flawed.

        5. I live out here in the real world, where I have zero trouble macking on college girls in real life as a grey haired 35 year old (I’ve never had a bad reaction to my age in real life – only on OKC and even then pretty rarely) and there are plenty of much older guys right here in these comments saying it is not a big deal.

        Your position appears to be that it is less common and women SAY they want men roughly their own age, THEREFORE they are less attracted to older men (barring a few exceptions). That’s about right isn’t it? But the flaw is that the initial premise does not lead to the conclusion (the part after “therefore”) – not when you look at empirical data on the ground.


      • @Nathan: A black guy in the ghetto can bang 20 girls a year. Just walk around with a bucket of Popeye’s. A normal White guy, who wants to have sex with actual humans, will be lucky (at 22 y.o.) to have sex with 5-6 girls a year. And that would be a good year. This if for the average man (not a nerd, nor a superjock or man with Brad Pitt looks, but an average Joe). And that would be a good year, with lots of effort put in.


      • on December 17, 2015 at 7:37 pm Vagina dominator

        @ nathan

        Allow me to imagine a scenario that illustrates your point.

        Young woman sucking my cock looks up, swallows deeply, and says

        YW: You know, i really prefer younger guys.”

        Me: Uh huh.

        YW goes back to sucking my cock.

        Ah, now I see your point.


      • I think the x factor here is the 4 year college. Nathan is probably right about women in college feeling more comfortable dating other college students.

        I think in the wild it takes a drastic turn. College is fantasy. I have a young friend who pines for his college days because his game is so weak in the real world. Just sayin.


      • Why does my “Spidey-sense” tingle with the notion that “Nathan” is Carpenizer’s sock puppet?


      • Nothing turns my stomach like someone arguing why they should lose. Carpenizer has a single, undefinitive, graph from OKCupid. That is hardly a clincher of FACTS. Nobody is claiming here that young babes are “lining up” to date older dudes.

        Blackdragon, who’s opinion I value more than you two losers, estimates that 20% of very young women 18-23 or so are attracted to & prefer older men. 20% are repulsed. And the other 60% don’t really care one way or the other & pay more attention to his other characteristics.

        That matches my experience as a 43 year old who hasn’t been with anyone under 30 in years. A decent shot with 80% of young women is a good enough ratio for me.

        This is a place for men to improve themselves. Take your negativity to huffpost.


      • @hosswire and @APL – indeed.

        APL – that’s really interesting if you are still hitting up full on college kid nightclubs in your fifties. Or do you go to normal clubs? Presumably you’re not going crazy on the do you play it? Just the “Most Interesting Man In The World” thing?

        It’s empirical but I think Blackdragon’s views make sense.

        The thing is we can argue about the precise percentages and what women “prefer” etc but the basic message we can agree on is that “IT IS NOT DIFFICULT FOR AN OLDER GUY TO BANG PRIME SMV CHICKS IF HE IS ATTRACTIVE” (where “attractive” means hitting female attraction triggers and Game, not money).

        That doesn’t mean all younger chicks are gagging for 50 year old guys or anything..looking at it from the woman’s perspective is misleading anyway. The point is that a well-put together 50 year old (as YaReally says, think David Duchovny’s character in Californication) who doesn’t remind her of her dad will have no problem finding 25 year olds to bang (nobody is saying he will bang ALL 25 year olds – but he won’t have trouble finding attractive younger chicks generally).


    • Culum Struan: “I regularly hit up kiddie nightclubs in jeans and a tshirt and gets tons of AIs and massive receptivity from college girls. My age is a total irrelevance”

      It doesn’t seem to make that much difference at 55 either, I’ve had girls grinding their way across the dance floor to give me my own personal floor show. The slightest encouragement, and I mean just hold out your hand, and she’ll grab it and climb all over you.

      It’s like a tin of tuna in a shark pool.


    • on December 18, 2015 at 9:56 am having a bad day

      still in the stack…


      • HABD – try switching your browser to Firefox. It has sharply reduced the number of my posts that end up in mod.


    • on December 18, 2015 at 11:58 am having a bad day


      props on putting in the work…you’ve come a long way in a short time… my other comment might pop out, but i’m trying firefox…


      “20% are repulsed.”

      this is socially conditioned ASD. these girls are part of the ‘really prefer older men’ group (at least their hindbrains are triggering…lol)…and bc of that, their ASD is high bc the social conditioning is that why else would an older man want to date them?…

      bc they are not ‘challenging’ nor ‘credentialed’ like those 37 yo ‘strong and independent’ women who say THEY should get those older men…lol…and THAT expectation of being shamed by those older women leads to the ASD…

      with the massive emotional response of ‘repulsion’ you can spin this in your favor to a correspondingly massive sexual attraction…just treat it like the shit test it is…

      and also they lose a lot of control over you as a potential beta orbiter bc of the status difference (which is a big part of the sexual attraction…lol) in other words they are just primed for a seduction…

      good luck!


      • like those 37 yo ‘strong and independent’ women who say THEY should get those older men

        You mean the ones telling men to man-up by leaning in? HAHA….

        I want all those women to follow Sandberg’s advice. Check if they’re still amongst the living in 10-15 years.


      • on December 18, 2015 at 12:23 pm having a bad day



        Rational Male has a current series going about open hypergamy/cuckoldry (basically increasing r select repro stategy)…

        extrapolating that concept into the future (just look at how r select species solve their genetic transfer issues)…the unintended consequences of THAT effort by the FI is that only young and hot women (prime fertility) will have access to sex by the ‘alpha’ studs (who all those Sandbergian followers want and won’t be able to get…)

        ‘man-up’ only works on desperate (optionless) beta orbiters/providers…and that is becoming less likely, the more red pill knowledge is diffused into the mainstream…with a corresponding increase in MGTOW…

        good luck!


      • HABD – so you’re basically saying that Blackdragon’s numbers should be read to say that 60% of young women are indifferent to age and the remaining 40% (including the 20% “repulsed”) actually respond strongly to older men?

        Presumably you’d just treat that kind of repulsion and “You’re old enough to be my dad” statements as a standard shit test and agree and amplify and then escalate/isolate? I’m assuming that sometimes (with those 20% girls) it will be too hard to break through their ASD though..


      • on December 20, 2015 at 11:26 am having a bad day


        “HABD – so you’re basically saying that Blackdragon’s numbers should be read to say that 60% of young women are indifferent to age and the remaining 40% (including the 20% “repulsed”) actually respond strongly to older men?”

        that so called ‘repulsion’ comes from somewhere. and we know from experience that girls key in on things other than just looks…and ‘age’ is just another form of ‘looks’…

        it’s the FI in play , with the increased ASD on the part of young girls as collateral damage from the shaming of older desirable men getting with those younger girls…so, those younger girls that are ‘repulsed’ are on the ‘more strongly attracted’ end of the bell curve, bc they are having their ASD triggered before you even approach…lol

        that strong emotional response is just that…and you can spin it to your advantage… remember the opposite of love is indifference, not hate…this also comes back to ‘assuming the sale’ = of course those young girls are just shit testing you bc they are interested…and that’s the only reason you would get interaction anyway, bc if they weren’t ‘interested’ (at least their hindbrains are triggering…) they would just leave…(do those same young hot girls stick around to chat with those nerdy omega boys from their class at school?…not unless they have game…lol)

        this doesn’t really matter if you are a ‘Pleasure of Sex’ type bc there are still 80% of the other young girls that you can game without too much trouble…

        however, if you are the ‘Thrill of the Hunt’ type, it is worth figuring this out, bc they are primed to play…lol…and that 20% of young hottys is just another problem to work out…and will increase your overall mastery of ‘girls’…lol…and especially in the prime demographic…

        “Presumably you’d just treat that kind of repulsion and “You’re old enough to be my dad” statements as a standard shit test and agree and amplify and then escalate/isolate? I’m assuming that sometimes (with those 20% girls) it will be too hard to break through their ASD though..”

        sooo, understanding that ‘repulsion’ is a shit test and ASD combination, you need to handle the shit test at the same time as you reduce her ASD (as against a theoretical ‘shaming’ older ‘strong and independent’ woman…)


        you cold approach a hot 18 yo…[at some point you sexualize the interaction]

        hotty: you’re old enough to be my dad…ewwww!

        you: [with relaxed bf posture…don’t forget to smirk bc you are ahead of the curve…and laser eyes with intent…] whoa! there honey… i AM old enough for you to call me ‘daddy’…but you shouldn’t be chasing me…you’re too young for me…but i can appreciate where you’re head is at…and it’s only natural that you’re attracted to me…but, i’m more into strong independent women…you know, women that have some life experience, not a girl just starting out… [change subject to something about her ‘just starting out’… like her living with her parents…lol…then loop back to again sexualizing the interaction later…]

        this reframes the interaction like she hit on you and you are letting her down easy…that sets her up into a competition with the source of her ASD…and gives her that chance to compete…then, you let her win you over…lol…game is game…

        not saying it’s easy…lol…bc your calibration has to be spot on (that’s true for any hot girl)…but the goal (for Thrill of the Hunt = YaReally/Mystery style) is 5 for 5…for ANY 5 girls…it doesn’t always work out…lol…but that should not stop you from playing…and once you understand the dynamic, it’s just a matter of putting in the work before you get the results you want…

        good luck!


      • hotty: you’re old enough to be my dad…ewwww!

        you: [with relaxed bf posture…don’t forget to smirk bc you are ahead of the curve…and laser eyes with intent…] whoa! there honey… i AM old enough for you to call me ‘daddy’…but you shouldn’t be chasing me…you’re too young for me…but i can appreciate where you’re head is at…and it’s only natural that you’re attracted to me…but, i’m more into strong independent women…you know, women that have some life experience, not a girl just starting out… [change subject to something about her ‘just starting out’… like her living with her parents…lol…then loop back to again sexualizing the interaction later…]

        Better response: “So?”


      • @HABD – that’s really interesting..I can see how you’re hitting the attraction triggers (disqual etc) and setting the frame you want to set.

        @Some Guy – your response is short (good) and also shows you’re not affected (also good) but slightly longer is better to hit some specific triggers that you’d want to hit.

        So maybe a shorter version of what HABD said but still hitting the same switches would be something like: “Aww..that’s cute.’re too young for me [NOTE – NOT “I’m too old for you”]..but I like women with more experience who know what they’re doing. are your studies going? Do your parents make sure your homework gets done on time?”

        Of course the real impact is all in the subcomms backing up these words – you’re sending the message that SHE is interested in you (assuming the sale), but she doesn’t meet YOUR standards, and pushing hard at what is likely to be her key insecurity (being too immature), all of which together with the status difference *should* trigger attraction.


  39. At the risk of being repetitive, R.Don Steele codified this decades before the manosphere in his classic “How to Date Young Women for Men Over 35, Volumes I and II”. Science is just now catching up with his trenchant field observations.


  40. on December 17, 2015 at 11:23 am Laguna Beach Fogey

    Retirement plans.



  41. ‘Look Who’s Coming to Dinner’ is seen as a race story, but it really is a game story.

    Sidney Poitier is 18 years older than the chick he is engaged to :


  42. Pushing 50, routinely date women 10 to 18 years younger. Not all women go older, but enough do to keep my sack drained.


  43. on December 17, 2015 at 11:44 am Wrong Side of History

    Uggos and bitter old cunts are the worst. I’ve seen 40 yo m/25 yo fm couples described as borderline pedophillic.

    Invisible to male sexuality? Shame, pathologize, control it.


    • on December 17, 2015 at 7:40 pm Vagina dominator

      Old bitches hate it like poison when they see you with a “girl”. Funny, it just makes the “girls” laugh.


  44. Motherhood is purely physical, so prospective mothers are valued for physical traits, such as being in prime physical condition: young. Fatherhood is both physical and social, so prospective fathers are valued for a mix of physical and social traits, making middle-age (by hunter-gatherer standards) the optimum period. (If only social traits mattered, women would value decrepit Confucius figures.)


  45. My favorite thing about fucking the young ones *is* the daddy issues lol. Something about hearing a girl garble “thank you daddy” with your cock in her mouth just makes the sun shine a little brighter…


  46. BTW, one more point – the phrase “May-December” is a bit misleading. It conjures up the whole Anna Nicole Smith type image – early 20s gold digger with a 75 year old dude on a ventilator or whatever.

    But most of the time when talking about this kind of relationship you’re thinking a man from 35-55 with prime SMV women of 18-28, which is a whole different kettle of fish.

    (Incidentally, at my old job, some people made – mild, but real – jokes about a 37 year old male colleague marrying another colleague who was 27 – even THAT was a bit odd)


  47. And so what if she has Daddy issues. That’s more cement for the bond and kinkier sex.


  48. You guys are downright creepy.

    Older men dating younger women is unnatural and never ends well

    If a man is over 30 and not married he needs to remove himself from the dating pool and let those that are well adjusted meet and commence a strong a relationship.

    [CH: D- troll effort. re-do for credit.]


  49. I’ve raised two kids and it is very striking to me how teenage girls absolutely _despise_ men younger than they are. Think of the stereotypical “older sister vs. younger brother” relationship. Women only get attracted to younger men when there’s something broken inside their heads. _Those_ are the ones with “daddy issues,” not the ones who know what a man is supposed to be and fall in love with one.

    Liked by 1 person

    • @Trimeg
      This is also why it’s easy to get laid early in life and have confidence (around women) later in life if you have a sister that is approximately 2-4 years your junior. When I was in high school, my sister would have slumber parties (or whatever term chics use) and they couldn’t control themselves. By that I mean they were boy crazy. And I wasn’t the star QB or most popular guy in school, but I wasn’t some huddled up geek either. Of course, it would get annoying, but I banged many of those chics (or their friends, or sisters, etc.) during my adolescence. I’m the first born son, as were most of my friends, so I understand there is an element of luck involved. On the other hand, my two closest friends were middle children. One had two sisters, the other had 2 brothers. The one with the brothers was the most natural poon hound you could ever know. It’s funny how things work out. I still can’t understand how so many modern American males remain incel virgins to 25 years old (and beyond). It’s almost like they’re TRYING to not get laid. The power of adolescent hormones should be overwhelming to the point of sex just happening by osmosis, or something. What was this post about..?


  50. HAHAHA…no one likes old women!


    • on December 17, 2015 at 5:14 pm Mean Mr. Mustard

      The Geography of a Woman – The overly generous version.
      Between the ages of 18 – 21 a woman is like Africa or Australia.
      She is half discovered, half wild and naturally beautiful with bushland around the fertile deltas.

      Between the ages of 21 – 30 a woman is like America or Japan. Completely discovered, very well developed and open to trade especially with countries with cash or cars.

      Between the ages of 30 – 35, she is like India or Spain. Very hot, relaxed and convinced of its own beauty.

      Between the ages of 35 – 40 a woman is like France or Argentina. She may have been half destroyed during the war but can still be a warm and desirable place to visit.

      Between the ages of 40 – 50 she is like Yugoslavia or Iraq. She lost the war and is haunted by past mistakes. Massive reconstruction is now necessary.

      Between the ages of 50 – 60 she is like Russia or Canada. Very wide, quiet and the borders are practically unpatrolled but the frigid climate keeps people away.

      After 60 they become like Afghanistan of Siberia.
      Everyone knows where it is, but no one wants to go there.


  51. Sterling example: Paul Blackthorne dating Kaley Cuoco.


  52. IM 44 currently banging a 25 yo ….she said i love you first after i made her come 4 times….using tricks taught to me 3 years ago by a 16yo..


  53. on December 17, 2015 at 1:14 pm Max from Australia

    My 25yo gf said i love you first after i made her come 4 times in 1 night. .. i used tricks taught to me by a 16yo 3 years ago…im 44


  54. Funny when I read the title I thought the study was going to discuss how the natural length of most relationships are from the month of May to December. The reason I thought it was funny is that is, more or less, the lifecycle of my relationships. They all start in late Spring and run through till the holidays ending before Christmas hits if it isn’t going to last another year. (Who wants to get a soon to be ex a gift anyhow).


  55. on December 17, 2015 at 2:04 pm Subarctic Hillbilly

    Earlier post stuck in mod purgatory …

    If you make it into your 50s and have financial success, have a worldly, sophisticated allure, lift heavy, eat light, play sports, etc., you will clean up with younger women.

    Your peers are fat, timid, beaten down by scolding hags and reek of bitterness and despair.

    Great scene in “Guinevere” from 1999. A 50-year-old photographer (Stephen Rea) has an intense erotic relationship with his 19-year-old protegé (Sarah Polley). It’s basically an update of the Stiglitz-O’Keeffe romance.

    Her parents come to rescue her (unwillingly) from his clutches. While the dad is hectoring her, the mom, wonderfully played by Blythe Danner, looks around the elegant, well-appointed apartment, checks out the bookcases full of classics, the wine cellar full of superb vintages, and the well-curated art on the walls. You can see her thinking, “I wish I had an older, sophisticated man to introduce me to life’s finer things, rather than the callow, shallow frat bros of my youth.”

    I’ve had a few such relationships … they are truly the way nature intended.


    • “Your peers are fat, timid, beaten down by scolding hags and reek of bitterness and despair.”

      And the reason girls think they want men their own age is because most older men fit that description exactly: weak, worn-out betas with dad bods.


    • on December 18, 2015 at 2:38 am Vagina dominator

      Reminds me of the relationship between ben kingsley and penelope cruz in the movie “elegy”, which I watched with a 21 yr old. Touching movie. She ate it up.


  56. You can bet your ass that chicks who dig the father figure are gold-diggers… because they usually inhabit in countries where women lack financial independence to live on their own, and so, they live with their parents until they catch a man with resources. Russia and Ukraine come to my mind.


  57. I don’t buy it. Too many years listening to Loveline, and seeing the girls around me go for.much older guys is too much evidence. Girls that grow up with strong, present father figures don’t fuck guys 10+ years older on a regular basis.


  58. O/T Great News!

    Ubercunt IMF chief Christine Lagard to stand trial for negligence.

    Pretty sure this is the old bag who said the world of finance needed more women as there was just too much testosterone on trading desks around the world leading to irrational decisions.

    Fuck You.


  59. That giant screeching sound is the death rattle of millions of hamsters of post-Wall American spinsters who tarried too long in the garden and discover that Autumn is here and their blossoms, once so supple and dewy, have faded.

    Why did they spend so much time at their wastoid corporate job? Didn’t they realize that a new crop os 22 year olds is ready for harvest each year?

    Now their once bright future trudges inexorably toward the permanence of a 1 bedroom apartment, single serving microwave meals, and the companionship of a neutered cat, and a dry, dusty raisin of a womb that weeps and wails for the babies it never bore.

    The poet said it best: “Gather ye rosebuds while ye may”.


    • “Now their once bright future trudges inexorably toward the permanence of a 1 bedroom apartment, single serving microwave meals, and the companionship of a neutered cat, and a dry, dusty raisin of a womb that weeps and wails for the babies it never bore.”

      –That “dry, dusty raisin of a womb” passage sails into pure poetry: the ingenious metaphor, the personification, the alliterations, the metrical cadences, and the closing, periodic-style dry thump of the final verb. Magnificent!

      Liked by 1 person

  60. I can’t remember the last time I saw a man over 30 with a woman who’s turn my head. It’s basically taboo to care about sex if you’re a man over 30.

    I guess I’ll just continue screwing 19 year old hookers. The old hags can service each other for all I care.


  61. I believe the data that shows big age gap relationships aren’t common, but let’s look at big age gap attraction.

    If an older guy has power, is charming, takes care of his physical looks, and acts young enough to have a conversation with a college student, I promise you most women will make no distinction between you at forty and a guy in his twenties.

    I see it all the time. Yes, if you ask them, they’ll say it’s gross, etc, but that’s because they’re parroting society’s norms, and assuming older men are the typical fat, boring, uncool, creepy old guys that most older guys are. Yea if you’re fat and your only achievements were when you scored a touchdown twenty years ago, yea, you’re not getting a younger girl.

    I have been talking regularly to a girl 19 years younger than me. It’s complicated, but we are attracted to each other and get along far better than I do with bitter women my own age. And a buddy I went to college with was just showing me the nineteen year old girl he’s seeing from work. He’s 5’3″ max.

    But the bottom line is that my age is a plus for this girl, not a minus. All the losers her age are out of shape, play video games all day, and are beta beyond belief.

    I think this era of millennial masterbetas (pun intended) is a boon for older guys who have their stuff together. As for older guys who don’t, well, good luck getting a date with anybody.


  62. my go-to response when a young hottie asks me my age:

    ‘old enough to be your lover’


  63. I’m thinking where Carpenizer is getting hung up is confusing “seeing a girl” with “relationship dating” – there’s a big difference. Girls have no problems “seeing” an older man – b/c it’s not going anywhere long-term – there’s no “is this a relationship or not?” drama. That’s absolutely part of the attraction of a man – along with all the other trappings of maturity, wisdom, confidence, etc.

    So yeah – I’d agree that it’s rare for a young 20 something to be in a Serious Relationship with a man like me in his 50s……but, as others will attest, we’re absolutely attractive men for a young girl like that to see for a while


    • i posted a comment earlier about LTRs with big age gaps. got lost in mods but you said it much better than i did. pretty sure mine sounded like i was a non-believer too.

      i’m with you on this. i have no doubt that attraction still happens plenty with big age differences. i’ve dated much younger myself.

      but expecting relationships like that to last for any length of time? that is very rare.


      • @88 – and that’s perfectly okay with me. I live in a college town – and there’s a fresh crop of students every year to pick and choose from. No need to get tied down by “love” and other silly things like that – been there, done that, the divorce cost me a lot


  64. The butthurt be strong with the deniers.


  65. For a good time google(“dating older men”).


  66. I’m 64, she’s 31. I’m flying her along on a business trip to our future home together. We plan on moving together this Spring. She calls me “My Captain” and although she is fairly together in her life, she really appreciates my sophistication, strength, and wisdom.

    That and the fact she cries out “Too big! Too thick!!” when I open her up.

    If this falls apart, which I doubt, I’ve got several other women vying for my attention in roughly the same age group – and she knows it. Social and family pressures will be the cause of the breakup if it did happen – I’m older than both of her parents.

    I do find that a woman much under 30 is too often still a bit of an immature problem child for my own composure. But every man will find his own balance of physical youthfulness vs. mental maturity. When they hit 30, they generally start getting serious about meeting a man’s needs first.

    As others have well noted, you have to WIN a woman’s love – it might be a gift but she has to feel you deserving first. As others have noted, a big age difference is rare in the general population – and that’s because deserving and motivated men are rare.


  67. Run a social experiment tonight in a bar. There was a group of 10+ American girls that I approached and said “I have a very dark secret I need to share with someone”, after they started asking what it is, I respond “I LOVE Donald Trump” and observe the reactions.

    Almost all of them instantly started babbling how racist and terrible he is. One girl in the group said she thinks he’s a bad person, but he’s very smart and one of them said she likes him and she’d vote for him. She was actually cute and hitting the gym regularly. Here’s your wife material!

    The level of propaganda is scary.


  68. ‘nothing psychologically unhealthy’ (!) how about super fucking healthy

    … less defensive

    late twentysomething legal monopoly protection via statutory law and social proof monopoly protection via the critique of the obvious.

    men get better with time.


  69. Field Report

    At the HP and was kind of observing. Watched a millennial who was trying to do his best to game. It was cute. It reminded me of some of the basics which are so important. He was presentable and seemed like he was trying to dress like me. Had a slight problem with his shirt being tucked in and buttons pulling at each other from a slight tummy tire. He would walk out and eye his quarry but could never make the move to say hi to the gal he was peering at. The thing which really stood out was his subcomms. You could see the fear which the women would of sniffed out in an instant. It reminded me of how important it is to have a “not give a shit” attitude when you approach.

    Anyway talked to the gal with the two mixed children. It hit me that sure, this gal is a mudshark, but you know what….she is my mudshark and that is what counts.


    • “It hit me that sure, this gal is a mudshark, but you know what….she is my mudshark and that is what counts.” Putin, wtf kind of logic is that? How about, “Yes, it’s heroin, but it’s my heroin”, or, “Yes, it’s a fat black woman, but it’s my fat black woman.” Meter spinning on that one.


    • I can see you in your beat up mini van with your now 280 pound mud shark and two picanninnies and new white baby driving to the Walmart. It warms my heart to think of it.


  70. Generally, this is true, thus the old adage: “What’s the worst thing for an old man? An old woman.” I also think that many men who take Viagra (in large part a sales scam by big Pharm, and also due somewhat because of a lack of proper diet/exercise) to get aroused for their women would have no problems if the women were half their age. The penis knows what it wants. You can’t fool it with Gucci-wearing, cosmetic-caked, imitations.


    • “would have no problems if the women were half their age.”

      I hate to say it but I think you could be right.


    • On this note, ever see those old, fake, plastic yenta broads hocking cosmetics on HSN? Scary thinking of being married to one of those. All the fancy clothes, surgery and makeup in the world cannot compete with YOUTH. Attempting to believe otherwise is futile. Men grow old more gracefully, and can reproduce. Women age rougher, and their is a REASON that they hit menopause – it is Nature’s way of telling them, “You are no longer meant to be a sexual being. Instead, by this age, your primary purpose should be raising children, and not hanging around in bars. If you are not, you have lost out in the game of life.”


    • yep. twenty year olds are mother nature’s viagra.


    • The females in the viagra commercials are always menopausal crones… Never 20yo hotties…. There is a reason for this…


      • Yes, they are attractive, and ‘society’ says that men should want them (“because they are attractive, successful, independent women”), but there is something about a dry uterus that is a big turn off.


  71. Pigs arse! A woman wanting an older man makes sense because men hit their prime 5 to 10 years later than women. However there’s no logical reason for a young woman to want an old man who’s blatantly past his prime.


  72. on December 17, 2015 at 7:57 pm gunslingergregi

    bunz in ovens is prob the only game ya need with a younger chick
    but then that kind of commits ya


  73. on December 17, 2015 at 8:00 pm gunslingergregi

    for the guys fucking with the younger chicks have ya not found one ya wanted to keep?
    i specifically don’t fuck with them cause i don’t want to fuck with their souls i might be doing it wrong though


  74. on December 17, 2015 at 8:13 pm gunslingergregi

    light note
    went to my girls exhusbands moms house thats a mouthful
    kids jumped me lol
    made their day was cool
    took em out to dollar general told em get whatever you want and candy for the last day school tomorrow to bring for their party
    that and happy meals came up to 157 for anything they wanted not too bad for an early christmas
    create a lifetime memory for a 157 bucks pretty cost effective he he he


    • on December 17, 2015 at 8:15 pm gunslingergregi

      they wore me out treating me like a jungle gym though but a good worn out lol
      hang me upside down rofl swing me i want to sit on your shoulders
      kids are fun


    • on December 17, 2015 at 8:38 pm gunslingergregi

      actually looking at her homework for math it was pretty nicely done with all word problems relating to real life examples in sentence form
      i thought it was some pretty good shit she was learning
      just need to maybe explain some of the terms in the word problems but if they had google there to look up meaning prob be nice
      maybe incoorporate pics with the words to reference on the worksheets
      like picture of dollar vs picture of british pound
      hard to reference for a kid who never saw foreign money maybe
      but yea would of been beneficial i think to have a laptop available to do it next time
      if i do again yea ill bring comp i think


  75. Great Debate: Is David Hasselhoff an alpha male? Discuss.


  76. “Women do not care for beauty, nor is their attention fixed on age; (thinking), ‘(It is enough that) he is a man,’ they give themselves to the handsome and to the ugly.”—The Laws of Manu, Chapter iX, verse 14

    ( )


  77. To CH et al.,

    Question: even when it seems apparent based on past behavior that a girl shows no interest whatsoever in you, does she not help but shit-test every man, regardless?

    I invited a co-worker to lunch today. I’ve written about her before, and most commentators have wisely said to move on — I’ve not pursued this girl, and today doesn’t count — it was lunch, and I certainly made no efforts to pay for her meal (though, interestingly, when the check came, she didn’t reach for it at all, but let it sit there while she continued to nibble at her food; of course, I didn’t reach for it, either. Finally, when I saw her pull out her wallet did I pull out mine. She gave me cash for her meal).

    We’re at the elevators waiting to go downstairs, and she says to me: “you look like you’re 13 years old, though you’re three times that age. What gives? Jeans, and hoodie? You’ve disappointed me and the office.”

    I don’t remember my reply, but it failed zfg/jerk boy charm. Not jumbotron failure, but still not good.

    anyway, later on, as we’re eating — I forget how we got to the topic of ‘earthquakes’ — but she asks me how old I was during the 1989 earthquake of San Francisco (yes,I live in this God-forsaken area of SWPL-land, Google Glassholes, shitlibs, fatties, feminists, and grown men wearing skinny jeans and an Apple watch).

    It was the oddest curveball question any girl has ever posed.

    What gives? And who the fuck cares how old I was during the 1989 earthquake of San Francisco?

    Some might think she’s interested in me, but I refuse to believe this simply because: a) she hardly interacts with me, doesn’t text, never writes or talks during work and most definitely never outside work; b) I’ve not behaved with correct zfg alpha-tude; and c) she’s got a bf whom she never mentions; and d) she reveals nothing personal about herself or shows any curiosity about my personal life, either.

    Is she just plain nosy and made the nosier because I’ve been tight-lipped and mum about my age?

    Perhaps I’m obsessed, but then again I don’t go asking now and then the same old question about her…..


    previously she’s either made cracks about my hair growing grey (so far, it’s still not grey in the slightest), or some old crack about how old I am…..


    • Younger women will use the age test against you. I tend to just say an age that is 20 years younger than I really am. That will get them off kilter. If they persist you can say “you look about my age.” Be ready for the age shit test because this is the weapon of choice against older guys.


      • You have a point. But don’t younger women age-test a man if they’re even somewhat interested? I thought women who in no way are interested in you wouldn’t even bother. that’s why I’m thrown off. For all I know I feel this co-worker is not in the least interested in me. But the occasional age-related crack now and then coming out of her throws me off. Not to use a bad pun, but it’s getting real old….

        btw: one time, I went the reverse when someone asked me. I said I was 70.


      • “btw: one time, I went the reverse when someone asked me. I said I was 70.”

        No, don’t do that. Watch the movie Inception. Once an idea is planted it can grow. So if you do ridiculous, go on the side of higher SMV. In other words plant the idea you are 20 years younger even though that may be silly. This way she has the idea in her head no matter how silly it is. Don’t plant the idea of older man. Make sense?


    • NOEL!!!!!

      A girl will not isolate with you unless she is attracted to you. Full stop. Attraction comes and goes, on an hourly basis, so the past is no predictor of the current…

      This here “she says to me: “you look like you’re 13 years old, though you’re three times that age. What gives? Jeans, and hoodie? You’ve disappointed me and the office.”

      NOEL!!! This is the part of the story where you give her an absolute dead eye stare into the pit of her soul, cut space with a firm expression, push her against the wall and kiss her… roll of and face the doors with a smirk.

      Cats are not dogs!


      • “A girl will not isolate with you unless she is attracted to you.”

        Listen to Sentient. Also work on your inner game, self confidence. Watch Fight Club. A little lifting and stop eating shit. Go with the ray peat diet. Non homogenized milk and fresh OJ.

        Good Luck


      • A girl will not isolate with you unless she is attracted to you. Full stop. Attraction comes and goes, on an hourly basis, so the past is no predictor of the current…

        Damn, so true. Need to permanently sear this into my noggin’


    • “Some might think she’s interested in me, but I refuse to believe this ”

      and this is why you fail…. ASSUME THE SALE. what is the downside? worst case she confirms she doesn’t like you, so what you lost nothing… HOWEVER if the has any attraction at all, assuming the sale will amplify this, and if she has a lot of attraction for you it will confirm it.

      why choose a road of failure?

      PS – have you been hitting Union Square and the Marina and doing cold approach? Here is an early Christmas present, new opener I’ve come up with… pretty funny. It’s a variation of the “have we met before” stale oldie…

      YOU:”do we know each other?”
      HB: “No”
      You:”Are you sure, I could swear we’ve met”
      HB:”I don’t know you”
      YOU:”here… let me see the top of your head [bonus points if you reach out and bend her head toward you]… yeah you’re right”

      and take it from there… guaranty an OMG! and arm punch as it sinks in on her… Have fun!


    • “We’re at the elevators waiting to go downstairs, and she says to me: “you look like you’re 13 years old, though you’re three times that age. What gives? Jeans, and hoodie? You’ve disappointed me and the office.”

      I don’t remember my reply, but it failed zfg/jerk boy charm. Not jumbotron failure, but still not good.”

      When in doubt just laugh and say “you are funny.” Have her on the defensive. Comment about her hair being short, pantsuit from the 90’s, I bet the older women love that scarf you are wearing, etc….


      • Solid reply, though you probably should just let her stew rather than criticizing her appearance in return.

        Or you could try a more spacey one, like “It’s because I needed to find more love in my heart, you know?”


    • “you look like you’re 13 years old, though you’re three times that age. What gives? Jeans, and hoodie? You’ve disappointed me and the office.”

      She doesn’t respect you and is trying to rationalize why she is even bothering with you, telling herself she can make a man of you. You got the worst kind of speech a woman who is interested can give. She apparenty doesn’t have a full dance card. If you are 39 and dressing like a 13 year old, she has a point. Grow up.


  78. I love science!


  79. P.S. the lunch hour with this co-worker was an unmitigated disaster. Imagine the worst: awkward conversations that transition poorly, talk about the food in the blandest way possible, banal, dreadful, boring…it was apparent I couldn’t relax, and I didn’t know why….


    • This is the result of not escalating, a failure cycle… If you had assumed attraction, had fun teasing and negging past her shit tests it would have been a mutually pleasurable virtuous cylce


    • Study up Noel… the oldie but goody re shit tests from Mystery…


    • on December 18, 2015 at 11:10 am gunslingergregi

      how bout not ever getting with a coworker make it easy


      • True, gunny. There’s some nice tail out here, but more I think on it, totally would not be worth it. I am trying to find another job, so when I do, gonna work my 2-weeks notice game and see what comes of it.

        Too many chicks here are fag-apologists. Hate that shit. And they dress like shit too.


  80. Reminds me of a story. Irving, age 70, shows up at the country club with a gorgeous 29 y/o. Irv’s buddy Stan, takes him aside and asks if she’s a hooker. No, Irv says, she’s my wife.

    How did you land such a sexy young woman as a wife?

    I lied about my age by 20 years.

    You mean you said you were 50?

    No, I told her I was 90.


  81. PS
    Wanted to say that the sooner women realize this truth, and stop fighting against it, the better relations between the sexes will be. I almost think that all of the fat feminists with short hair in this world decide to let themselves go as a tantrum against natural male desire. Instead of hating men for it, it would be better for women to do what I do. That is, I keep my body looking the same way as it did in my 20s, I keep my hair long, and I keep my face wrinkle free. On average I look 10 years younger than my husband who is the exact same age as me. Women need to stop hating men for men preferring young nubile appearances. Women need to strive to keep youthful beauty and rejoice in being beautiful and not giving up by chopping off their hair and gaining weight.


  82. YaReally, Sentient, HABD, Walawala:

    Latest FR from this month’s Going Out Week for me:

    Interesting wings are great, esp two – one guy my age who has been in Game for ages and an early 20s quasi Natural. There was also a third guy late 40s who is seriously lacking in basic social skills that he needs to figure that out before seduction..

    Having good wings made a big difference..only had one beer and I want to keep it at that level – I just notice more and I’m more alert sober.

    Similar themes to last big night..plenty of situational openers, didn’t go up to any sets but that’s not really a big deal for me now so not concerned. Spoke to loads of girls whether I opened or my wings opened. Still sticking points to do with not pushing forward with interactions as far as they will go and letting it fizzle (although the state problem was solved this time with good wings). And to be honest, it felt like I stayed in set a while longer on average this time before letting it fizzle, so that’s progress – I just run out of things to say a bit later..

    Overall a good night with good vibes even if I didn’t close.

    Most girls I spoke to were college students or recent problem at all.

    Got a decent number of AIs (although not my highest ever), but what really stood out for me (this is a first for me) is that nearly every girl I had a conversation of over a minute with kept touching me – about 4-5 girls. Like chatting away and stuff and they touched me..usually more than once..arm, chest etc to talk to make a point etc (all looked under 25 btw for the haters on this thread and two told me they were 19 and 20). And incidentally, I am NOT muscular or ripped or anything – I’m not fat – I’m pretty lean, but virtually zero muscle to speak of.

    Again this goes back to the subcomms and stuff that HABD keeps on about..something has clearly changed and I’m not sure what. This never used to happen to me even 6-9 months ago, and it’s still happening – this touching thing is new this time. But doing a lot of online dating (and more importantly, dozens of first dates and 15-20 bangs in 1 year) has clearly boosted my confidence and body language and subcomms. I really wasn’t saying anything special or telling amazing stories or anything..I made a few provocative/teasing statements with one girl but mostly it was barely one step beyond interview questions and maybe some mild teasing.

    The very first set my wing and I opened just kinda reminded me how much sheer fun this is and can be..the whole process. Game is FUN.

    Two set 19/20. One HB7 and a very cute All-American looking blonde 7.5 (for some reason there was just something sexier about the HB7 though – just talking to her I wanted to rip her clothes off). My wing and I laughing and teasing by telling her I didn’t believe one when she said 19 and she must be 40..I called the 20 year old the “older woman” – which isn’t even that funny but my wing and I totally laughed out loud at it and self-amused ourselves..and the girl laughed. At one point I blatantly checked out the HB7 and was like “No, I’m distracted I’m checking out your tits” and it was such a rush to see her (very pretty blue) eyes go completely wide as the emotional spike hit her and she was like “Oh you guys! You’re being such men!”.

    Some other chick towards the end (HB7 about 30) was totally drunk off her face. I’d had AIs from her earlier but only opened her towards closing time – kino was great but she was so gone it was difficult to have a proper conversation with her..she asked if my (other) wing was gay and my boyfriend. I just lolled to myself again and told her we were bisexual and in an open relationship and banged chicks on the side (she was too drunk to even get it but I found it hilarious)..a few minutes later she walked past us mouthing “gay boys” to me. LOL.

    I made 2-3 other sets completely go eyes-wide and LOL when they asked about my work and I told them and I said “I don’t get paid in money..only in sexual favours”

    One thing that I think did help although it is very early days is that I am consciously trying to put into play what Julien describes in PIMP. I forget a lot of the time, but I am TRYING to consciously control my voice tonality and project a specific sub communication with each thing I’m saying..commanding/dominant, challenging..that sort of thing.

    Second Julien thing that is already helping is that I am focussing much less on talking and entertaining her with long’s just not practical in a club even though girls love it on dates. So it’s much more of the very short anecdotes with emotional spikes and cold reads and sexual innuendo and even boring interview qs, which appears to work well (with the right subcomms).

    Third Julien thing – I am actually thinking much more strategically about the night – about how in the first half you talk to loads of girls and collect numbers and in the second half you pick your best target, stick to her and do your best to escalate and pull.

    Any tips on how I can handle the latter part of the night – “pulling time”? This is when the music is pumped, the girls are drunk and horny and guys are pouncing all over the place, and it’s even harder to run verbal game than usual. Once in a while when I’ve been drunk I’ve managed to do stuff like stand in the middle of the walking route through the club and literally grab girls by the arm and pull them into me but it’s insanely rare for me to have the state high enough to do that.

    Just literally do I pull these girls and escalate without talking? When buying temperatures are running high. I guess I can grab her and pull her in to me..then what? Can’t really talk I just go for the kiss? Try and dance with her (I am terrible and uncomfortable..just what?)


    • Pulling time: Imagine it’s New Year’s Eve…move slow on the one or ones who gave you the most IOI’s. escalate kino…don’t talk too much….eye fuck…pull the girl closer and tease. The idea is to slowly lock into an embrace….grab her back…then her hand, then move her head in slowly all without saying a word. Start with the IOI’s…I never work on a girl who hasn’t given me an IOI.


    • Culum

      Good stuff man. A few brief points to consider via phone…

      1. Re not pushing forward and fizzling, realize that these are related. The model is not 1995 or 2005, chat chat chat date etc… It’s pull or walk. If not then get a number. When you reach a lull you should have been escalating physically and that would avoid it..

      2. Question of intent again. If you planned to pull did you have a plan? Like you knew the sex location, transport options to ge there, time and a few places to bounce to on the way if needed? Did you have a plan or where you winging it? That mindset is the difference. If not you are already priming yourself for failure, you hadn’t gone all in on your intent before you even left to go out.

      3.female to male kino! To you rexiprocate and amplify? This is where you set the dynamic to escalate intent and pull. Lots to go into here will circle back but this seems to be the sticking point. You are killing attraction if not escalating here and so things peter out. What would an alpha do? This is where the nonverbals are best. Boyfriend posture kino for the win here.

      4. No muscles? WTF did you abandon the 300 plan? lOL

      5. The HB7 vs the 7.5. Question whether you felt more entitled to the 7 so you viewed her a more gettable and thus sexier. So you where more confident with her as a result as well. Shift this mindset to all women. What Julien says as sexworthiness. boys shit tester… Same as comment to Noel upthread. Wants to be pressed against the wall and kissed. Do it next time.

      7. On PIMP amd even more in SHIFT notice how. All RSD infields have lots of strong kino. Wrap girls arms around them when talking hold hands, makeouts etc… There is a reason.

      8. Pulling time means pulling! Boyfriend kino to isolate, short makeout and bounce. That”s it.

      Great stuff man keep killing it.


      • Walawala & Sentient (and Putin) – thank you – feedback appreciated.

        Wala – yeah, that’s exactly the kind of detail I was basically you’re saying don’t talk much, just slow escalate kino (and yes, I would only do this on girls I’d spoken to earlier who’d shown IOIs or otherwise gave AIs – although if my state is high enough, I can just grab a girl walking past in the bar and pull her in and depending on how she responds (and how high her BT is), I could do the same thing.


        1. Yes, as you and HABD have said I think the intent and moving forward is lacking – that’s the key issue. I need to consciously plan out the *physical* escalation just like I’m putting effort into the *verbal* progression and then execute.

        2. Yes, I have a pretty good idea of the logistics/bounce location etc – the nightlife area I go to most often has a bunch of bars and late-night food places, and my place is a 15-20 min Uber ride away which is not perfect but fine. But you’re right – I don’t go out with the full intent of pulling (like I may not have a condom on me and leave my place messy etc). I’m thinking more about “What Game aspect am I practicing today?” and not focussing on pulling (as Julien says in PIMP – I’m not acting as if there’s a gun to my head that will go off if I don’t pull).

        3. Not reciprocating F2M kino – I think you’re right. This is basically the physical manifestation of Point 1 above. I don’t really reciprocate. As in a little bit – I may (not always) touch their arm back or at best put my arm around then but not the full-on kino you see in the RSD videos – this needs to become my next focus area. Thanks – I think you’ve nailed the crucial point.

        4. Muscles lol. The workout program hasn’t been abandoned, I’ve just had to pause it for a while – partly some intense travel but mostly I got injured a while ago (long story – ended up intervening in a drunken street fight after the bars one night, when it looked like two guys might kill a third by pushing him in the path of oncoming traffic). The victim got off and so did I, but it was close. Not seriously injured but I need to lay off the weights for a while. I’m restarting in the New Year.

        5. I get your point on entitlement re the 7 v 7.5 but no, that was not an issue in this case. Some women you just “get” this instant sexual chemistry you know? Something about the 7..great tits, fiery attitude like she’d be great in bed..I was literally getting turned on talking to her and flirting even without kino (when I told her I was checking out her tits, she actually grabbed them and pushed them up – like a pushup bra would do – while *saying*: “Oh you’re acting like such MEN!” – LOL). That whole interaction was funny, because although I had some IOIs from the 7, it was the 7.5 who kept touching me repeatedly and introduced herself to me and stuff, while the 7 kept doing it to my wing. And my wing wanted the classic All American blonde 7.5!

        But it was so early in the night that I let them go as Julien recommends (albeit without number closing as he says to do – stupid) and over the next couple of hours I got big smiles and AIs from the 7.5 every time I saw her around the club (at one point she was going up the stairs to the outdoor smoking area – with some guy – when I was walking down the stairs, and she literally stopped in the middle of the stairs and started talking to me with a big smile and EC). Unfortunately just as I was about to pull the trigger and try to pull either the 7 or 7.5 (when the bar hit the drunk/pulling time), they had some kind of argument between them and left..

        6&7. Point taken re the kissing at the gay boy thing – it’s almost like a challenge isn’t it? “Why aren’t you kissing me?” It never occurred to me to do that (I would have thought twice in any event because this woman was with her work colleagues for a Christmas party and I didn’t have isolation, but otherwise – will def do it next time). Also yes – I HAVE noticed the high-kino levels in PIMP (not seen SHIFT yet – will find time over the holidays) and I have started trying to replicate it a bit on my dates this week, but haven’t yet done it in clubs – another point to keep in mind as part ofmy escalation ladder.

        8. V useful re pulling time. So basically you’re saying isolate, makeout (as described by Wala) and then bounce? I see a LOT of guys at this time doing a lot of sexy grinding and heavy makeouts and petting in dark corners of the club..and that kind of confused me but I guess that’s just amping her horniness and ASD without getting her to the sex location? Hence waste of effort (beyond a point)?


      • @Culum You can’t hesitate and you have to start to do very quick reads of the situation to understand how far into the seduction you’re in: attraction, comfort, seduction…

        If I’m at a party and I meet a girl, I neg, tease, then work on rapport, I can determine quickly whether it’s time to wrap up and number close.

        Some of those number closes end in flakes. But several times this year they’ve ended in a Day 1 which I’ve bounced to my place and banged.

        I just met an au pair online. I gamed her, she was keen. In invited her to spend the afternoon at my place. At first she pushed back. So I said; “ok if you can’t make it I’ll make other plans” that was to seal the deal. She qualified and was up for it.

        Within 10 minutes of coming over, she was in my bed blowing me. The “game” was to ensure I escalated and didn’t ask “So..would you like some tea then?”

        Start to get better at reading a girl’s state. Also, if you escalate and get rebuffed it’s better than not escalating. Sometimes girls will rebuff because they feel that’s what they’re “Supposed” to do when a guy makes a bold move.

        Other times, they’re so surprised a guy made a bold move they instinctively rebuff. Is she angry or surprised? Start to read the signs.

        On New Year’s Eve…I walk up to girls, stare and start making out…If I get pushed away it’s ok….

        The point of game is that even when girls are keen a beta would wait for more signals and then the girl’s state is lost.

        One girl I banged a few years back told me: It’s all about opportunity and you seized it. She never banged me again.


      • Good stuff from Wala… Culu. Check back tomorrow afternoon, i’ll have afew more things to look at on your responses on 3 and 8.


      • Thanks Sentient – will check back


    • “The very first set my wing and I opened just kinda reminded me how much sheer fun this is and can be..the whole process. Game is FUN.”

      Exactly and haters will hate you for it.


    • on December 20, 2015 at 12:57 pm having a bad day


      “And to be honest, it felt like I stayed in set a while longer on average this time before letting it fizzle, so that’s progress – I just run out of things to say a bit later..”

      progress is progress…props on putting in the work…next time, when you run out of things to say…touch her somewhere…and tell her ‘i just wanted to [whatever you did]’…and see what happens…or better, yet…go in for a kiss…that’s the best way to deal with a pause in the convo…lol…

      “Got a decent number of AIs (although not my highest ever), but what really stood out for me (this is a first for me) is that nearly every girl I had a conversation of over a minute with kept touching me – about 4-5 girls. Like chatting away and stuff and they touched me..usually more than once..arm, chest etc to talk to make a point etc (all looked under 25 btw for the haters on this thread and two told me they were 19 and 20).”

      and EVERY one of those girls that touched you, you could have banged that night…your subcomms are obviously getting better…props on that!…and EVERY one of them was disappointed (on some level) that you didn’t escalate on her…

      next time, when she touches you for the fourth time in a convo = you take her hand and say ‘let’s go…i want more privacy…’ then lead her to isolation (whether in venue or not…) and see what happens…it’s likely that she will be disappointed if you don’t bang her…lol…

      “Again this goes back to the subcomms and stuff that HABD keeps on about..something has clearly changed and I’m not sure what. ”

      your subcomms are telling girls you’re an alpha stud…duh!…lol…

      “Game is FUN.”

      yep…if you do it right…lol…

      “Two set 19/20. One HB7 and a very cute All-American looking blonde 7.5 (for some reason there was just something sexier about the HB7 though – just talking to her I wanted to rip her clothes off).”

      lol…girls have subcomms, too…and your hindbrain picks that stuff up, just like girls do. so, understand that your new subcomms are triggering girls in a similar way to that girl’s subcomms triggering you…lol…

      so, if that hb7 would have taken your hand and whispered in your ear “let’s go bang our brains out…” would you have even hesitated?…same with girls being triggered by your subcomms…

      “I am actually thinking much more strategically about the night – about how in the first half you talk to loads of girls and collect numbers and in the second half you pick your best target, stick to her and do your best to escalate and pull.”

      that’s what girls’ hindbrains tell them to do…to get the best genetics…lol…they cruise through the venue meeting different guys, then try to set up next to the best they might be able to get with…so, at the end of the night, they’ll get with the ‘best’ alpha stud…(and that incorporates the idea of actually ‘closing’…)

      and that’s what you are doing also…trying to bring home/bang the hottest girl you can get with, right?…BUT, you can short cut this process, and pull a hot girl out of venue ‘early’ by just being a bigger ‘alpha stud’ than she normally meets…then, pull her asap…now, her hypergamy might not let her do that right away…but by trying to pull her early, you will set yourself up as a bigger alpha stud for later in the evening…bc you tried to close sooner rather than later…

      the fact that you didn’t try to close those girls that were touching you, WHEN they were touching you, throws some doubt at their hindbrain about you being an alpha stud…so, it makes it harder for you to close later…ESPECIALLY if you didn’t number close them…

      on some levels, it’s you failing a shit test…she touches you to test your alpha stud cred…and you DON’T escalate on the CLEAR signal?…what is her poor hamster to think about that?…lol…basically that you don’t want her…lol…so, she looks for someone else to give her that genetic contribution…someone who WILL close the deal…

      “Any tips on how I can handle the latter part of the night – “pulling time”? ”

      see above…pull early, pull often…lol…you don’t have to wait for the closing time rush…also, you can treat the club as a form of day game and bounce to a new venue before ‘close’…

      also – see Sentient’s comment…do you want the bang or not?…

      ok, just read your response comment…

      basically, NOT touching girls is a sign to them that you are NOT interested in them…

      that’s all… there is no more…

      girls only have so much freedom to IOI or AI to you…so, when YOU don’t escalate (when it’s offered) = not interested…so, when you come back later in the night = triggered ASD bc you are ‘slumming’ with them now…

      i haven’t seen the RSD stuff you highlighted, but i can make a good guess…lol…it’s just patterning hypergamous mating strategies and using that knowledge to bang hot girls…lol…BUT, you can also use that knowledge to bang hot girls faster…IF you can pull them…faster, that is…short cuts are short cuts…

      do you really think that YaReally would wait around til the end of the night, just to pull some girl in the ‘normal’ way?…lol…(although he probably would to get a handle on the dynamic…lol) that stuff happens bc all those other guys are as clueless as any other chode…and don’t pull girls before then (or bc they can’t…)…do you really think a girl’s hindbrain thinks that is optimal strategy (getting pulled at the last minute/closing time)?…or would it prefer a guaranteed alpha stud at 9:00 pm?…

      NB – when you start to touch girls, you’ll feel like a walking hard-on…lol…this is the beta programming from the FI…where you are supposed to let the girl be in charge of the interaction…but that kills tingles, blah, blah…you know that drill…BUT, an alpha stud feels ENTITLED to touch girls…any girl he is interested in…even if they don’t touch him first…

      here’s a post with an escalation ladder:

      learn it, live it, love it…lol…

      ok, i just had a thought…is that FRA episode messing up your game?…

      also, did you even think about the threesome with the hb7 and hb7.5?…lol…

      good luck!


    • on December 20, 2015 at 1:01 pm having a bad day


      in the stack with firefox…


      • @walawala – bingo. “It’s all about opportunity and you seized it” – I think that’s the key. I need the confidence to push hard with the strong escalation when I see the IOIs and I don’t really have the reference experiences for that yet (in the context of a bar pickup).

        @HABD – lol. Maybe WordPress doesn’t like you? All my long posts on this thread have gone right through with no mod using Firefox..(in fact I see even your old post from a couple days ago hasn’t appeared yet..)


      • “the full-on kino you see in the RSD videos – this needs to become my next focus area.”

        Yup – watch these videos, you’ve seen them all before no doubt… but this time watch them with the sound off… Just watch the body language… this is the boyfriend posture kino I talk about so much… Calm, familiar, assertive – as if you’ve fucked her dozens of times already… just R E L A X and let your body go… your body knows what to do, your hands will naturally reach for her, pull her close, settle on her waist etc… AND when you are in arms reach you are in laser eye reach… now your laser eye can work and boost the subcomms… keep moving closer together and it’s like a magnet and iron at a certain point it has to result in a kiss (Bonus Points for dragging out the suspense just a moment almost too long LOL)…

        What is missing from your game is not state and confidence it is VIBE… the feeling of the bubble forming, of the world being shut out, of mutual focus narrowing until it is only the two of you, then two faces then just two mouths and eyes…

        I’d worry less about sexual kino and just focus on strong/familiar to hands, arms back neck waist shoulder… BPK is talking direct to her hind brain, it’s NLP without any talk… she feels like she knows you because you feel familiar, and feeling/emotion is her only truth… so NOW when you tug her wrist and say “come with me, I need a drink” she falls in line and you lead her to another spot.. and then you say with hand on back “let’s go to this cool place around the corner” and nudge her forward she goes… Momentum is success… keep her moving and viola, you will pull!

        As to timing, I would focus on the state of the vibe AND you will learn her logistics up front right? “who you here with” “how do you know each other” “where do you live” “do you have roomates” “how did you get here”… ALL of this is sexual talk when you are exuding the right subcomms… she KNOWS exactly why you are asking so any answers she gives are also little green lights and compliance hoops she is jumping through…

        Because… because SHE wants it to just happen too!!! That’s why she is “dolled up” as YaReally would say, and spending time out in a noisy place and not just drinking wine at home in her PJ’s and watching some movie… That she is OUT is a big tell… she is DTF at some level.. That she is talking to you is another big tell… that she is kino’ing you is another… that she isolates with you is another… like how many lights does she need to give you to finally DO what she wants and PULL HER OUT… right?

        We need to keep disconnecting our logical minds and overcome our self limitations… She is ready right now, can you manage it? That’s the question. And finding the answers is why ONS game is the best IMO because it will sharpen all of your skills way more than online, daygame, day 2’s or TINDER will… so I recommend doing cold approach ONS game really really hard core a bunch a nights in a row and consecutive weeks and accelerate all your learning and skill development. You have awesome game background to work with so putting ONS game into practice should be easy. But you need to be mercenary because of hypergamy and shit right? It never rests… the sooner you get her out of the venue the better.

        NOTICE – lot’s of RSD infield is OUTSIDE the venue… that’s not just for better filming LOL. It’s a better environment. You might try just chilling in front of some busy bars, especially when you aren’t drinking and then easier to pull girls into another place or bounce her.

        As to time and “pulling time” – I’d avoid the last hour in any place… it is usually a shot show. what you will see is tons of girls making out with guys (even multiple different guys) grinding etc… but LEAVING with their girls or alone… This last hour is when they get their validation on, some sexualized feeling for the week and go home and not be sluts…

        Stay until lights up a few nights and see how many dudes have a girl they pulled in the cab line… very very few…

        So try and pull when the moment feels right… some good kino, some vibe a short makeout is enough – she doesn’t want to be there either! and if she can’t go (logistics – she drove her friends etc.) or you didn’t do enough to pull but she has attraction, then number close and rotate on…

        Pulling is just a huge frame battle, but like all the others one she wants to lose.


      • Thanks Sentient – that last one is great for pulling as a guide and way to think about it -especially about just focussing on relatively basic kino around hips and back etc.

        It almost reads like a guide to what I *should* have done with the mid-30s solo blonde from my Sunday night FR (still in mod but posted on this thread) – that is LITERALLY what I could have done with her.

        I’m making a note of this and will be back in my next work-downtime phase in a few weeks to put it in to practice – I’m planning 2 weeks of intense (3-5 nights) going out cold-approaching.

        Thanks HABD too – again, I hadn’t seen your comment either before my going out last night or it would have really helped. It’s very interesting and I hadn’t thought before about how the girls’ subcomms and mine interact with each other (although they obviously do in retrospect). And it is very very revealing to think that the 19 year old I was talking to was probably getting just as turned on talking to me as I was talking to just puts things in a totally different light (although of course all of this happens when you hit the “sexual hook point” in a conversation and have attraction.

        And yes, the RSD (and any good pickup really) teaching stuff is very much based off of training guys to take best advantage of hypergamous mating strategies for r-selected bangs, although I’ve never heard it described that way. In terms underlying concepts and stuff it is very introductory compared to the stuff on CH and TRM, but the base concepts are there. Plus the real value is in detailed practical application of those concepts on a very granular level and the advice on how to do that (plus the infields of real world class PUAs applying it).


  83. on December 19, 2015 at 12:53 pm Puzzle Privateer

    I know I’m late to this, but for all the haters who say young women don’t like older men: there’s no reason to take our word for it, you can check out the words of teenage girls themselves.

    ” I’m really turned on by my older brothers boss and would love to jump his bones if I could!”

    “I’ve got all wet over one of my dad’s friends”

    “im sooo attracted to older guys! A guy we met at our camp ground is 32 and I think hes awesome ! i studder when he talks to me,, i feel like such a little kid,, hahah”

    “Some old men who don’t take care of themselves are gross, I agree. But the ones who do are soooo hot. I just get to thinkin how much they must know in bed….it makes me wet thinkin about them using all that experience on me.”

    “Love me a man with a little salt and pepper hair, throw em in a nice suit and my knees give out on me. Guys for the most part in my opinion age like a fine wine. Sadly I’ve never been with anyone more then 4 years older. sigh… one day”

    “The guy’s personality and maturity is what i look at. I am currently “talking” to a guy who is 33, he has got me hooked.”

    “lol my sexy friend is 28”

    “I decided to set my brothers boss up a bit to see if he was interested….he totally is! It was so exhilarating . He’s 35 but I think I’m hooked, lol”

    “That is so cool. I have a “friend.” He is 41. I have known him for years. Every time we see each other we have a “tickle/wrestle fight.”

    One time I was able to get on top of him and dry hump on him. The last time I laid on his chest when he fell back and his hands rubbed my bare belly up to my bra to tickle me.. It was so cool.

    I am not sure what I should do next but yeah, I am hooked.”

    That’s just from the first page.


    • @Puzzle Privateer – I only read the first page but that was a fascinating site, thank you. Even if that’s only Blackdragon’s top 20% posting there (as a self-selected set), it was a really interesting read.


  84. “Some old men who don’t take care of themselves are gross, I agree. But the ones who do are soooo hot.”

    There you go. Let me add this to the older men…drop the old man, negative attitude because it is a tingle killer.


  85. on December 19, 2015 at 11:24 pm Puzzle Privateer

    Here’s another telling thread from that site, the girl would have been about 16 when she wrote this three years ago:

    “Hi, I find that I am only attracted to older men, I’m talking like 35 – 55 year olds. Once in a while I’ll see a guy around 25-30 that I find attractive, but very rarely. And never anyone my own age. I’m afraid people would tell me Im weird so I have never told anyone this before now. But since no one on here knows me I dont mind talking about it. What does everyone else think about this?

    Im not saying I wanna go have sex with every older guy I meet, I mostly like flirting with them and talking to them. It turns me on if they touch me, like on the shoulder or whatever.. Ive neverhad sex before or done anything like that. I am still a virgin although Im starting to wish I wasnt. I know virginity is something that once its gone you can never get it back, so I wouldnt want to just randomly give it away for no reason, even though a part of me is kind of curious.

    Is it wrong to flirt with older guys? Do you guys think Im strange? I’d like to here from both girls and guys on this one.”

    She likes to flirt with them and *it turns her on when the touch her*. I don’t think this is feminist Narrative approved.


    • @Puzzle Privateer – I read both those threads now. It’s fascinating stuff. Those are obviously a self-selecting group (the 20% who actively prefer older guys) but still very interesting to see how strong the response is and how closely the *reasons* they give for liking older men match the Red Pill stuff talked about on the Chateau.

      (There was one poster who claimed to be a 13 year old girl who had “met up” with a 39 year old and a 46 year old man – that one just screamed “fake” to me, but all the rest sounded authentic)


      • @Puzzle Privateer – One more thought on those forum threads.

        It’s interesting how pretty much all of them focus on how much of a turn on older men are and how they like them sexually because older men have confidence and status and know what they’re doing in bed.

        There is virtually no talk of older men’s Provider characteristics which is what most feminists automatically assume when they see a young hot girl with an older guy (“gold digger” etc). I think I saw one girl on those threads who said something about how she wants an older guy who has a job and a car and money etc, but that was only one and even her I think was thinking of a slightly older guy who she could have as a boyfriend..

        Also – quite a few of the girls talking about how they felt this was their dirty little secret and they had thought they were doing something wrong and how they are so relieved to find out there are other teenage girls who like much older men (there was one teenage girl who was talking about how she masturbates thinking of 60+ year old men!). This of course goes back to HABD’s point about the FI/shaming/ASD aspect of this..


      • on December 20, 2015 at 10:54 pm Puzzle Privateer

        “There is virtually no talk of older men’s Provider characteristics which is what most feminists automatically assume when they see a young hot girl with an older guy (“gold digger” etc).”

        GOOD CATCH. I didn’t pick up on that.

        Reading that stuff has also made me think about how back in the day teens would be married to much older men. It makes me think differently about those pairings too. How many of those teens who got married to men in their 30’s or 40’s were thinking “woo hoo!”. I have to wonder if people back then made those matches knowing full well that some teen girls would be jump-for-joy happy at the pairing and chose those girls on purpose for that kind of match.

        “quite a few of the girls talking about how they felt this was their dirty little secret”

        I first got my eyes opened to this kind of thing about 10 years ago. A woman I knew who was in her late 40’s told me how when she was 13 or 14 she would get crushes on much older Hollywood stars like Sean Connery or Robert Redford but all her friends said “eww”. She learned to shut up about it but her strong preference for older men never stopped.

        I would love to see a Heartiste post that follows up on what I found on this thread.


  86. main drawback is you’re liable to be a widow for a long time. My husband’s father was 25 years older than his mother, she was a widow for 40 years. Men have a tendency to croak earlier than women anyway, add on a long age gap and you’re looking at a long widowhood. Not necessarily an inviting prospect.


    • @Louise – yes, that’s a drawback, but ONLY if (a) there’s such a big age gap (15+ years) and (b) It’s a marriage.

      No connection with sexual attraction and flings (and if you look at it from evo psych perspective, most people 10,000 years ago wouldn’t live long enough to be an issue anyway – you’re looking at the 35-45 year old tribal leader banging the 14-17 year old girls in the tribe, which (not coincidentally) is the same age group we are talking about here..


    • A real concern for my intended and me – 33 year difference. I’m blessed with long-lived genes but still, I’m paying careful attention to finances and life insurance.

      On the other hand, it is HIGHLY unlikely that I’d leave her for a younger woman.


  87. A question for the experts here…

    If you’re a man over 45 and you’re trying to game women under 25, is it better to lie about your age at first and then reveal the truth later on?

    [CH: there are posts on this topic in the CH archives if you’re interested in searching for them. short answer: depends. if you get the sense that the large-ish age difference will be a real sticking point (and not just a flirty shit test), then yes it’s better to “lie” about it and bring it up later after she has invested emotionally and sexually in you. (i put lie in quotes b/c there are ways to evade the question without directly lying about your age.)]


  88. YaReally, Sentient, HABD Walawala et al

    Short final FR from yesterday before shutting down for the holidays (it’s like fun work I do when I have downtime from paying work lol).

    I had no wings on a Sunday but didn’t want to waste a free evening so I went over to a bar that has live music and Latin dance classes early evening solo. It’s relatively low energy and has some solo people who come dancing etc.

    I told myself I’d just order one beer, drink it at the bar, open any sets that came near me and leave (to try and deal with the state crash issue of going solo). I think Sentient posted once before – something about marching up to the bar, ordering a drink and having a sip before looking around..

    So I did – about 30-45 min. It worked pretty well actually – it’s a great location for solo game when dance classes are going on. Opened several sets that came to order near me (it wasn’t super busy). All of them opened well and one of them hooked properly and became a proper conversation although (as usual) I let it fizzle out (this one incidentally was a cute early 20s HB7 primary school teacher who emphasised several times she was here with a “friend” – saw them later on and it was a guy her age – if I hadn’t talked to her alone at the bar I’d have assumed they were together. .

    Also an interesting first for me (seem to be having a few of these lately) – I am pretty sure I noticed proximity AIs from at least two sets standing right behind or next to me when I was talking to another set at the bar – I can’t put words to it or WHY I think those two sets in particular were proximity AIs – one of them COULD have just been watching the dance floor standing behind me and the other two-set COULD have just been ordering their drinks standing real close to me. But there was *something* making my radar tingle. Not sure what.

    After that I finished my beer but my state was good enough that I did a lap around the bar and opened a bit more (all situational). The last was a mid-30s HB7 blonde standing alone who had come “for the dancing” (i.e., for cock is my interpretation). Bit old now, but still smoking body, blue eyed blonde, decent features. Probably a HB8 ten years ago. She blew right open and hooked almost immediately and reciprocated etc. She was compliant to my kino – hands, twirling etc and she touched my arm once. Also dilated pupils etc.

    She was interested in some alternative healing therapy stuff and after about 10 mins I was like “That sounds interesting..we should meet for a drink soon so you can tell me about it” and she was like “Oh we can meet here and talk about it” blowing me off (I saw her eyes widen for a sec just as she registered the escalation). I just carried on as if nothing had happened and chatted for a few more mins before excusing myself. I think the key mistake there was just not escalating hard and fast enough with a chick who was basically DTF and ready for some laser-eye and physical escalation and more kino than just touching her hand. Plus I forgot to focus on my voice tonality and dominance as much as I was doing on my previous FR..

    Shortly afterwards, I stopped at a fast food place to grab some food and was chatting and vibing with the (male) server telling stories about embarrassing Christmas gifts etc when a group of 3 HB6/7s tapped me on the shoulder and asked me to take a picture of them (which I did – and remembering Sentient’s latest tip, teased them about looking drunk and happy in the pictures etc – big laughs). I was the only person standing there (other than the server)..but still I think it meant something that they approached me right when I was being social and having fun.

    15 mins later when I was finishing my burger, a different trio of early 20s HB7/8s came up and asked to share my table. The place was full and my table was the only one with a single person on it so I was the logical table for them to come to..and yet, I couldn’t help thinking there was (a bit ) more to it than that..just like the photo.

    It’s like once you start thinking of subcomms and subtle signals you start seeing them everywhere you know?

    Overall I’m happy with the evening. There’s still the fizzling out of interactions issue, but I’ve seen the most recent advice just now from Sentient and HABD and will be implementing it. But I managed to get out solo and do some decent approaches and have fun which is a big win. Plus I managed to TRY and close the HB7 blonde and even that’s a big step for me in terms of pushing interactions forward..

    So – overall good. Will be back with more Gaming and FRs in 2016, so stay tuned..:)


    • great stuff going out solo… you will find when you are trusting your instincts more that it is more fun than going out with shitty wings…

      ” I can’t put words to it or WHY I think those two sets in particular were proximity AIs ”

      Again – why not just assume they ARE proximity AI’s and be entitled? So if they ARE then 1+1=2 = you advance the interaction… if they weren’t then 0+0=0 and you are no worse off than you were to start. You can do the math right?

      “The last was a mid-30s HB7 blonde standing alone who had come “for the dancing” (i.e., for cock is my interpretation). ”

      Yup.. DTF.

      “She was interested in some alternative healing therapy stuff ”

      Lot’s of women are, pure emotion stuff… you can use this to sexualize the convo in the future… Orgasmic massage, nerves, hand play etc… any kind of mystical stuff can be looped back to sex.

      ” I think the key mistake there was just not escalating hard and fast enough with a chick who was basically DTF and ready for some laser-eye and physical escalation and more kino than just touching her hand. ”

      Yup… posses that body. every chode will ask her for a date… she can be out on a date every night, but she is here alone, in a place where she has to touch men… I’d go back to this place sounds like a good spot.

      “a different trio of early 20s HB7/8s came up and asked to share my table. The place was full and my table was the only one with a single person on it so I was the logical table for them to come to”

      In situations like that, make a game of it they can sit with you if they can answer a question, do a dance etc. some compliance test… and again abandon all LOGIC – you need to just feel things… get on the wave of emotion in the moment…

      Great efforts Culum… if you commit to ONS game and make the few tweaks you need you are going to kill in 2016…

      Best wishes!


  89. Sentient, HABD Wala et al – short new FR from the weekend in mod on this thread.

    Also if I have my count correct HABD’s original post on this thread has still not popped out of mod..


    • on December 22, 2015 at 10:44 am having a bad day


      “Also if I have my count correct HABD’s original post on this thread has still not popped out of mod..”

      yep…it included some stuff to ‘nathan’ in it, if i remember right…it’s been a while…lol…

      props on going out solo…that is NOT easy…

      just a point on ‘sexual hook point’…if she is TOUCHING you, you have passed the sexual hook point…lol…whether you understand it or not…whether you notice it or not…regardless of your logic circuit overriding your hindbrain to believe otherwise (which is straight up FI-induced beta programming btw…)… IF she is touching you (and the more she touches you, the more this is true), she is DTF…period…full stop…lol…you just have to escalate…and not [email protected] up…usually by NOT ‘pulling’ her…lol…

      it doesn’t get any clearer than that…unless she grabs your [email protected]…but then she’s still touching you…lol…

      “But there was *something* making my radar tingle. Not sure what.”

      your hindbrain is getting sensitized to subcomms…and the FI-induced beta programming is giving way to red pill Reality Vision tm…good job!…lol…

      “It’s like once you start thinking of subcomms and subtle signals you start seeing them everywhere you know?”

      welcome to my world…lol…it really is fun!…it’s almost like a super power…oh, wait…it IS a super power…lol (in the land of the blind, the man with two eyes and a pair of binos is king…lol)…you should get to the point where you can almost read minds…bc it’s just primate communications that have been ‘lost’…we are just relearning this stuff…and putting it into conscious observation…

      “I was like “That sounds interesting..we should meet for a drink soon so you can tell me about it” and she was like “Oh we can meet here and talk about it” blowing me off (I saw her eyes widen for a sec just as she registered the escalation).”

      if she WAS blowing you off (and you didn’t just read her reaction wrong (thru your beta programming/disney expectations…)), that was her hindbrain moving on bc it knew you were in beta chode mode and were (selfishly) NOT going to donate your genetic material to her THAT night = SNL…girls really DO slut it up for alpha studs…lol…with good alpha subcomms and no beta chodey mistakes = meet to bang = 3 hours or less…(just as an aside (and to help your red pill reality vision get some better calibration…lol… learn to SEE what is ACTUALLY in front of you…) – WHY do you think a mid-30s! hb7 (former hb8) would be out ALONE on a SUNDAY night? = her HINDBRAIN was telling her that was a GREAT idea…WHY?…hint – it has to do with ovulation…lol)

      here’s a time frame for an alpha stud on that mid-30s hb7 (let’s say YaReally…or better Black Dragon, bc he’s pleasure of sex type…and YaR prob wouldn’t get with a mid-30s girl…lol…):

      1) he walks up to the bar, orders a beer, sits/sips and vibes ‘alpha stud’/social ‘value giving’/etc..opens any/all, including cute girls, that he can – he flirts, gives value, and establishes social proof/and gets some phone numbers – 60 minutes…(mostly it takes that long bc it’s fun once you’re in state…lol…)

      2) sees that mid-30s hb7…out on a SUNDAY night…ALONE…lol…(he has his target bc he is a ‘pleasure of sex’ type and he knows she’s DTF…and he would have spotted her when he walked in)…

      3) he walks over and opens her (after opening and flirting with those mid-20s hb7-8s in the bar = pre-selection…) – 1 minute.

      4) he assumes the sale, so there is no ‘what if she doesn’t like me’…but he is ready (and hoping) for her shit testing…bc that just saves time…lol…he passes the shit tests easily (just like you can…lol)…then gives her a compliance test…she does it…plus he’s already sexualized the interaction when he passed those shit tests – 10 minutes.

      5) he touches her and starts to build comfort (note – he already has rapport bc she’s out on SUNDAY night…ALONE…lol…she’s primed to play and he has passed her testing…and she’s complied with a couple of his tests…) (this phase can include ‘logistics’, too as part of comfort building…and if she’s DTF, her hindbrain will have arranged this, too…lol…) – 10 minutes

      6) he tries to pull her, knowing she’ll likely refuse (bc she’s not a slut…lol)…he lets it slide and starts to escalate touching in bf posture…moving closer, etc…more intimate, sexualized topics…he shows some vulnerability/stories… – 10 minutes

      7) he goes for the kiss…if she responds, he doesn’t pull right away – that builds tension and doubt…lol…also it reduces ASD later…if she doesn’t, he tries to pull her…if she goes, it’s on…if not… – 10 minutes

      8) he backs off on the physical escalation and focuses on her emotional response = bt… – 10 minutes

      9) he tries to pull her…rinse and repeat from 6) or 8) until she pulls…

      meet to bang = a couple hours max…lol…you can do this too, with your new alpha stud subcomms…just have to let that FI-induced beta social programming slide away…throughout this process, she’ll be shit testing and running through her rolodex to confirm alpha stud cred…at whatever point her hindbrain is satisfied, she’ll let herself be pulled…and the more consistent he is, the more she’ll slut it up for him bc ‘alpha!’…lol…

      question – did you open the sets that set up next to you/ordered drinks by you? if not, why not?…

      sooo, not counting those random sets not opened or mentioned, by my count in your FR you should have had:

      done deal ‘pleasure of sex’ bangs:
      – mid-30s hb7

      potential ‘thrill of the hunt’ bangs:
      – cute mid-20s hb7
      – at least one of the 3 hb6-7 photo girls or 3 hb7-8 table sharers (if not all of them…lol)

      phone numbers:
      – all of the above, plus
      – all 3 photo girls
      – all 3 table sharers

      did you even THINK about getting a 4some with either of the groups in the restaurant?…you have your own place, right?…lol…

      “But I managed to get out solo and do some decent approaches and have fun which is a big win.”

      and having fun is the MOST important thing!…props on having your head on straight!…lol…

      i think you have a GREAT year ahead of you…

      good luck!


      • HABD that 9 steps reads like my post from 1 year ago… LOL link in mod for Culum to remind him…


      • on December 22, 2015 at 2:22 pm having a bad day


        yep…game is game…lol…and that pattern is about the most efficient that you can strip game down to…

        good luck!


  90. […] This is a shibboleth-smashing study sure to give ugly feminists (but I repeat myself) and game-hating tradcons the hives. Attachment Styles of Women-Younger Partners in Age-Gap Relationships.  […]