A Test Of Your Game: The Judging

Way back in November I posed the following scenario. What do you do when your girl keeps mentioning the name of another man she’s known since high school and for whom you suspect she nurses some latent sexual attraction?

363 comments suggests this sort of scenario is not that uncommon. Most readers’ responses would fall under the category of “overreaction”. Reacting out of proportion to a woman’s infraction is the quickest way to discredit your alpha cred. A few got it right. Here is a random sampling:

MeMyselfI wrote:

Ignore most of what she’s saying about the other guy. Tuck it away for future use, but don’t worry about it.

Hit on the waitress (assuming she’s reasonably good looking – better if she’s hot) in front of her during that dinner.

Take her home after dinner – no sex that night. Early if possible. Go to another party/event. Maybe text her from that event, if possible. See if she asks what your are doing.

Wait and see how she responds to the above…

In every “Test of your Game” post, I always include a few critical clues to the correct response. In this scenario, I specifically wrote that you had been dating this hypothetical girl for a few months. Now think about it — is it normal behavior for a man who’s been dating a girl for months to blatantly flirt with the waitress over dinner, drop his girl off at home with no sex so he can go to another party without her, and then text her from that party later in the night… all because she mentioned another dude’s name a few too many times during dinner? You don’t think the girl will ask you why you’re dropping her off and refusing to take her to another party? This is classic overreaction. Now this kind of asshole game will work on a girl you’ve just started dating who is playing hard to get with you, but not with a girlfriend.

Grade: D (Barely passing, because your heart is in the right place)

jom wrote:

Say something along the lines of, “Sometimes you have to let people make the stupid mistakes they are determined to make.” You frame him as a fool who needs to learn in order to reach your level.

Generally speaking, subtle psychological ploys like this one trump spazzy overreaction. In the post, I wrote that the girl was “fake complaining” about something the other man did. You know how girls fake complain about men they find sexually alluring? It gives them a reason to keep his name front and center in her mind. Jom’s psychological acrobatics can be an effective counter tactic, although it is not the best option available because his reframe continues with the theme of keeping the other man’s presence alive in the conversation.

Grade: B-

Dan wrote:

Kill her.

Well, at least it’s not beta.

Grade: F+

Thras wrote:

Wait for the next time that she doesn’t account for her movements, accuse her of seeing him. Storm out. Then get into a fight with the guy at the next available opportunity.

I’m pretty sure this reply was meant as a joke.

Grade if joke: B+

Grade if not joke: F

The Book of Dooderonomy wrote:

I’d defend the guy’s actions, so long as they were short of murder.

Her: I can’t believe John did *so and so objectionable action*.
Me: Ha, really? Well, from a guys perspective, it seems he did the right thing. Had I been put in that situation, I’d definitely have done something similar.

And I’d keep defending it, but defend it intelligently, yet with a hint of me just doing it to get under her skin. Also, I would note to her that he seems like a “really cool guy” and some of his other good qualities, but do it backhandedly.

This is psyche-out 101, similar to Jom’s reply, except better because it doesn’t risk making you sound resentful as you would if you were to criticize your competition, however adroitly you massage your criticisms. Backhanded compliments of intruder males, like negs to target women, is a sly — some would say slimy — ploy to keep the upper hand. It is usually effective.

Grade: A

Skryblah wrote:

Easy, just smile to yourself when she brings him up, each and every time, and each time she asks why you are smiling, just say that you remembered something funny…be sure to make it look legit, and then sit back as her brain goes hyper confused, she can connect the dots to figure out that you smile every time she mentions him but she will go crazy trying to figure out why on earth you are smiling, basically successfully shifting her focus from the other guy to why the fuck you are smiling. Never underestimate the crazy things women think of when trying to rationalize their guys actions that seem irrational.

I include responses like this one under the category of “What I pretend not to notice won’t affect me”. A generally safe bet as a strategy, but sometimes it *will* affect you. Then what? Nevertheless, if you can’t find an effective way to respond, a good default mode is the shit eating grin followed up by the utterly random conversational thread breaker.

Grade: B+

anony (a woman) wrote:

address it directly, with respectful teasing, that she has a crush on him. the particular words don’t matter.

Teasing a girlfriend about having a crush on another man works well if the other man in question is some faraway totally unobtainable dude like a Hollywood celebrity. Or if the other guy is obviously lower in status than you. But it’s a risky tactic if the other man is someone she’s known for years and could represent serious competition to you.

Grade: C

ASDF wrote:

My first reaction (if I could no longer ignore it) would be to call her out a bit. Saying something like “I’m not interested in talking about your buddy. That’s what your girlfriends are for. I don’t care about his problems.”

The “calling her out” strategy was very popular among the commenters. I say it risks sounding like overreaction. Sometimes a woman’s shit test is so bold it deserves a strong, alpha male “calling out” response, possibly appended with an ultimatum. This was not one of those times.

Grade: C-

The G Manifesto wrote:

You lost me here:

“You’ve been dating a girl for a few months. ”

But to play along, I like MeMyselfI’s moves.

I would get the waitress or girl bartenders number when the girl goes to the bathroom.

Then get a blower in the Lac before dropping her off.

Then roll to the Gentleman’s Club to swoop more girls.

All done suited down of course.

I was about to fail this entry, but then I noticed he would do all this suited down. I revised my grading.

Grade: A+

hcl wrote:

Hmmm, were this a real life scenario I’d believe she fails to meet his high, non-player (stoic = not a player) standards.

If he didn’t bang her then (and they obviously haven’t), he simply isn’t sufficiently interested. She’s an orbiter of his.

The likelihood they’ll ever bang is low, but non-zero.

hcl has done a good job of correctly assessing the dynamics of the shadow relationship. She’s known this other guy for years and yet, according to her, they’ve never dated or (presumably) hooked up? She’s an orbiter of him, not the other way around. Does this fact mean it is more or less dangerous for you? Tough to say. Assuming his interest in her is low and her interest in him is high, all it would take is a small move on his part, if he were so inclined, to tempt her into a tryst. But it’s also important to remind yourself that she’s fucking you, not the other guy. That is the fact that matters most above all other facts.

Grade: A for proper assessment

John wrote:

“Call him up…we can both bang you at the same time. I call mouth.”

If you are dating a superfreaky girl, this might just work. But then you’d have to watch another guy banging her from behind while you’re up front. Would you high five him during the Chinese finger cuffs?

Grade: E for effort

***

What I did:

While she was taking about the dude, I reached over and grabbed a piece of lint off her shoulder. Neg, abrupt conversation thread break, and protector of loved ones, all in one simple gesture.

Nonetheless, because of her not-so-infrequent mentions of his name, she was put on mental notice, and bumped down to tier 2 on the CH Fidelity Guarantee Purchase Policy. This means I kept my eye open for other prospects and put up token resistance when tempted.





Comments


  1. FRIST

    Like


  2. Damn, I was hoping to be “FRIST”.

    Like


  3. Killing a girl: Omega.

    Spanking a girl: Alpha.

    Like


  4. Yeah, never underestimate how easily women will think your being mysterious is mysterious.

    Like


  5. “I was about to fail this entry, but then I noticed he would do all this suited down. I revised my grading.

    Grade: A+”

    Yeah, the “suited down” part makes it all work.

    – MPM

    Like


  6. on December 21, 2009 at 2:22 pm The Book of Dooderonomy

    VALIDATION. Thanks for the present, Roissy. Happy holidays.

    Like


  7. I’m surprised that a quality stealing of her frame didn’t make the list. I think an effective (not beta and transparent) dropping of a higher-value female into the conversation–in combination with another one of the tactics–could muddy her waters a bit. Something like, “you know that IS annoying. It reminds me a lot of my friend Alison…” It’s all in the delivery.

    Like


  8. What does “suited down” mean? Is this a poker reference?

    Like


  9. Picking a piece of lint off of her shoulder is supposed to end the conversational thread?

    Like


  10. This means I kept my eye open for other prospects and put up token resistance when tempted.

    And how is this different from Roissy Standard Operating Procedure? I mean, you’d still do this if she hadn’t been yakking on about some other guy, right?

    Like


  11. Killing a women, is admiting you cant control someone genetically programed to not be as cunning and strong as you.

    Very Beta

    Like


  12. “Girl: Why is a girl a slut if she hooks up with multiple guys?
    Guy: Think of it like a lock & key. A key that can open a lot of locks is a master key. A lock that can be opened by multiple keys is a weak lock.”

    Like


  13. on December 21, 2009 at 3:20 pm Cannon's Canon

    “Killing a women, is admiting you cant control someone genetically programed to not be as cunning and strong as you.

    Very Beta”

    what’s your angle, taoist? i’ve decided to add hunting to the top of my to-do list, perhaps even calling it a “resolution” for 2010.

    i will need a bright orange pocket square for this adventure, as i will certainly still be suited down.

    Like


  14. it think pulling a piece of lint off her shoulder and then initiating this tactic would have been the best call:

    I’m surprised that a quality stealing of her frame didn’t make the list. I think an effective (not beta and transparent) dropping of a higher-value female into the conversation–in combination with another one of the tactics–could muddy her waters a bit. Something like, “you know that IS annoying. It reminds me a lot of my friend Alison…” It’s all in the delivery.

    but hey, fuck the stupid cunt… if she keeps babbling about some other dude i’ll just have to go skewer some other stupid bitch behind her back.

    problem solved

    Like


  15. The second half of Roissys actions are more important than the first…just move on/bang ten other girls is the key here.

    Like


  16. The orbiter comment has it- with men and women, *usually*, 98% of the time, things happen quick or not at all, due to the lameness of one or both parties.

    Like


  17. “i will need a bright orange pocket square for this adventure, as i will certainly still be suited down.”

    Smooth.

    – MPM

    Like


  18. Christmas came early this year.

    Like


  19. you didn’t solve the problem, just avoided it. Not very helpful.

    Like


  20. Basil: Fantastic analogy! Best refute I’ve read on the subject.

    Like


  21. on December 21, 2009 at 7:29 pm aussie girl in australia

    Glad to see your back and writing.
    Merry Christmas!

    Like


  22. Geez. Just reading the original post and these responses makes them all seem so silly. Just keep looking and moving on. Getting into any sort of LTR where you have to worry about the girl’s attachments is nonsense.

    BTW, I like the story about getting together with her friend and gang banging her. That seems to be a good approach. That devalues her in the eyes of her friend, making her almost worthless to him. She will realize that, too, putting you in better control of the situation. Beautiful.

    Like


  23. I’d probably say something like “yeah, I had that same problem with girlfriends X, Y and Z”

    Girls fucking hate it when they realize they’re not the only one you’ve slept with.

    Like


  24. …I reached over and grabbed a piece of lint off her shoulder. Neg, abrupt conversation thread break, and protector of loved ones, all in one simple gesture…

    pulling out the old school guns i see. thats some “stlye” ish shit right there.

    btw check this vid out. new pua in charge;

    social proof to the max.

    Like


  25. The funny thing is she thinks it is cool to have a dirty car. They can prob take her kids for that since her house is probably also dirty. Along with declaring herself an unfit mother they can also take em away. Yea woman and men no more rights for shit.

    Like


  26. Hello readers of this blog,

    I had an interesting situation come up last weekend. I met up with a friend of mine over dinner. The dude is dating a girl for the past 6-8 months and things are pretty serious. However he does not know a lot about frame control or owning the conversation..A typical example in the past is friends GF patting his bald held and announcing how her ‘monkey’ is still in training to our friends, then the couple would just laugh it off…Its quite apparent that my friend has no problem or does not comprehend the depth of the interaction or the frame she is setting early on in the relationship. Since its no business of mine I usually stay out of it but the problem is his GF seems to be interacting with me with same beta frame..How can I handle the situation without upsetting my friend or his GF? For eg: she constantly gave me shit at the restaurant about the ‘peacocky’ shirt I was wearing, what would be a comeback to put her in place and set boundaries early in the interaction without coming off as rude or insulting?

    Like


  27. O-face,

    Just tell her that you’ll stop wearing the shirt when the women you’re fucking start having a problem with it.

    Like


  28. Come off rude just like reality said. Take the chick from your friend and do him a favor then get rid of her.

    Like


  29. I guess you “conveniently” forgot to mention my curve-breaking A++ grade. Being better than the grader has always been my problem!

    Like


  30. on December 22, 2009 at 12:24 am unlearning genius

    The post above my mine.

    Like


  31. on December 22, 2009 at 12:29 am unlearning genius

    “she constantly gave me shit at the restaurant about the ‘peacocky’ shirt I was wearing, what would be a comeback to put her in place and set boundaries early in the interaction without coming off as rude or insulting? ”

    If a woman is teasing you, it usually means she is intrigued. Remember the little girl frame? What would you do if your little niece did this to you? Would it annoy you? nah .. it would amuse you.

    Like


  32. “If a woman is teasing you, it usually means she is intrigued. Remember the little girl frame? What would you do if your little niece did this to you? Would it annoy you? nah .. it would amuse you.”

    I get that, I mean Im ok with the teasing may be for the first 15-20 minutes but if it derails any serious talk you are trying to have through out the night, I begin to wonder if you need to set the frame..The same you would do with your lil niece..Infact at some point in the night I did mention on how she talks a lot and spends little time listening but I failed to deliver it in a CnF way.

    Gunslinger: I cant fake attraction or run game on this chick and I would not try and steal her anyway.

    Apologize Roissy for going off on a tangent on your thread. This is actually an interesting topic, & I have found little on your blog. How do you deal with your beta friends GF when running game and F-closing her is not an option.

    Like


  33. Wait, is there a proper that doesn’t involved hitting her in the back of the head with a two-by-four?

    I thought not.

    Like


  34. I dunno, suggesting the threesome would probably work for me. I kind of talk like that all the time anyway. Don’t think the lint thing could work; usually I’m bitching at them for messing up my tweeds.

    Like


  35. on December 22, 2009 at 2:23 am gunslingergregi

    ””””””Gunslinger: I cant fake attraction or run game on this chick and I would not try and steal her anyway.

    Apologize Roissy for going off on a tangent on your thread. This is actually an interesting topic, & I have found little on your blog. How do you deal with your beta friends GF when running game and F-closing her is not an option.
    ”””””””’

    Not as a normal thing but can you imagine what she will be like when they get married if that were to happen. I was talking take one for the team and do him a favor.

    Like


  36. on December 22, 2009 at 2:23 am unlearning genius

    @O-Face

    “I mean Im ok with the teasing may be for the first 15-20 minutes but if it derails any serious talk you are trying to have through out the night,”

    serious talk? Why would you be discussing the nuances of the medicare, the finer points of the federal rescue of GS, the challenges of targeted drug delivery, the lack of rigor with evolutionary psychology or the continuum hypothesis in polite mixed company? Serious talk is best reserved for a group of guys and intellectual blogs. Most guys who try to talk serious usually come off as intellectually insecure. Unless you are among the few established experts in any field, your insights are probably second rate at best (yes, that applies to this post of mine as well). People quickly lose reverence for such hot bags of air. Perhaps you DLVed yourself this way to warrant incessant DHV attempts?

    People fear and respect those who are sparing with their words and need for attention.

    “I did mention on how she talks a lot and spends little time listening but I failed to deliver it in a CnF way.”

    tut tut, wrong move .. ideally you should achieve this with a quick, cold deadly stare …

    Like


  37. so my plan to slaughter the guy wasnt alpha? what if i got it on video and made my girl watch it? what if i spanked her while making her watch saying ‘look what i can do!’ ??? maybe im just too alpha.

    Like


  38. [email protected] genius..yes when I meant serious talk I was asking my friend where he got his tution loan for college and places around union square with cheaper rent in NYC…Yeh not stuff you would talk on fri night but again I hadnt seen him or heard from him in a while..Cold stare=brilliant!

    Like


  39. Basil Ransom

    “Girl: Why is a girl a slut if she hooks up with multiple guys?
    Guy: Think of it like a lock & key. A key that can open a lot of locks is a master key. A lock that can be opened by multiple keys is a weak lock.”

    yep, that’s a good one. I’ll use it for sure.

    Like


  40. @Roissy

    Nonetheless, because of her not-so-infrequent mentions of his name, she was put on mental notice, and bumped down to tier 2 on the Roissy Fidelity Guarantee Purchase Policy. This means I kept my eye open for other prospects and put up token resistance when tempted.

    What I’ve noticed about men is that they are often judging women and raising or lowering their status as PGF’s (potential girlfriends) without women even being slightly aware of this, and the men certainly don’t tell the women. Men seem to notice alot without ever saying anything about it.

    I wonder how many times I’ve been taken out of the running for being a girlfriend without ever even knowing I was in the running in the first place?

    Like


  41. Regarding original post: the lint pick is fine, slight neg without showing that her behavior is being picked up by you. If you can pull it off with out “falling into the trap” and showing that her comments have gotten to you, you’re good. The bigger problem is the fact that you are in this situation to begin with. Your mental response of decreasing her value is spot on. This thread and the other one regarding meeting a girl with two male work friends are almost parallel. They show a lack of commitment and respect from the girl. In both cases she is trying to reframe the dynamic by putting you off kilter. This should be a major red flag for any girl you’ve been dating for any serious length of time. There is no situational panacea that will “save” both situations, there is information that must be realized and processed for re-evaluating long term plans.

    Like


  42. i never understood that this can be annoying for guys, ie to hear a friends name, that happens to be a guy. so for whatever reason, i guess i have a habit less.

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  43. “serious talk? Why would you be discussing the nuances of the medicare, the finer points of the federal rescue of GS [snip]”

    +1 on this post.

    The less you say, the better.

    Cold deadly stare — see the Megan Fox gets pwned video for perfect execution of this.

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  44. @biktopia

    yes it’s annoying because hearing about other people and their issues is trifling.

    Like


  45. John, i think it depends, i think it can be quite exciting and learnful, like, this blog for instance is about people and their interactions, far away from trifling i would say… and i have to realize reading from the comments, i see a general tendency that a lot of guys hate hearing another mans name, and i dont think it would have been a problem if my friend would be named “Paulina” > i live and learn.

    Like


  46. Nonetheless, because of her not-so-infrequent mentions of his name, she was put on mental notice, and bumped down to tier 2 on the Roissy Fidelity Guarantee Purchase Policy. This means I kept my eye open for other prospects and put up token resistance when tempted.

    “My advice would be to drop her back onto the bench and let another batter up to the plate. Maybe not an outright NEXT, but certainly put her on the bench for later consideration (if the sex was exceptional enough). In the meantime reevaluate yourself and how you thought she merited a semi-monogamous status to begin with. If a woman is comfortable enough to offer up how concerned she is about another guy, you’ve slipped. This is an indicator you’ve transitioned into that familiar monogamy. Women in a state of lust-fueled sexual tension and anxiety with high value Men don’t have other concerns. The ambiguity of a non-exclusive, non-comital arrangement fosters this anxiety. When a woman alludes that it’s she who is being competed for, this is a very clear sign that this anxiety has been replaced this comfort.”

    Where’s my A+?

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  47. lol “Paulina”, that’s slick. we call our friend Glenda whenever he acts like a little pussy.

    I hear what you’re saying, though there is a difference when you want to hear (interested in) a certain topic and want to learn more as opposed to having to hear (forced into) a less interesting topic.

    Like


  48. unrelated, but the Hot Chicks With Douchebags Annual Douchie Awards are out:

    http://www.hotchickswithdouchebags.com/2009/12/hcwdb-of-year-smoot-and-crystal.html

    Like


  49. O-face raises a good question. I had that problem before and didn’t know how to really deal with it. At first it feels good that she’s teasing you and giving you attention but after a while they start to derail your conversations and you want them to stop but I didn’t know how to do it without seeming rude. There’s only so much teasing a guy can take. For example, she kept talking about my shoes and how “they’ve got to go.” After the first few times I’ve had enough. I’ll try the cold stare next time though.

    Like


  50. Btw the shoes are the Vibram FiveFingers which I first heard about on this blog. Absolutely the best shoes I’ve ever ran in.

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  51. jagal, lets say your friend’s name is bob, you tell her “bob never said anything about you having a foot fetish” then turn to bob, “hey bob, did you know your chick has a foot fetish”. say it loud so people hear. embarass the shit out of her. she won’t dare try it again.

    btw, those shoes have got to go.

    Like


  52. FRIST

    BTEA !

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  53. Everyone should visit that link to the Bad Mom, Ms. Loh.

    She gets published in the Atlantic Monthly with that sh***.

    Gawd, I didn’t detect a single iota of logic in her spewings. It was just a complete narcissistic hurl. Good to see she is living in the car and he lives in the house. I hope she enjoyed her fling. She seems to not have an ounce of sorrow for what she did to her husband, or her children. It’s all about her. Imagine how great it must be for her husband to be rid of her.

    If women didn’t have snatc*es, would we ever bother with them? For the vast majority, the answer would be no.

    About the annoying girl who teases and won’t shut up. Just rag on her clothes or hair. They get psycho over their hair. And clothes. And age.

    For example, “My shirt appeals to a younger demographic, I guess.”

    Girls like that are just trying to deflect attention from the fact that they are absolutely clueless about almost everything.

    Like


  54. What does “suited down” mean? Is this a poker reference?

    it means poker faced. it is a reference to an english socialite of the late XVIIIth century, Lady of Gaga upon-Avon

    Like


  55. Do you PUA’s keep lint shakers in your pocket?

    Like


  56. Jagal,

    1. O faces point wasn’t really actually about getting teased because of clothes. It was about how to properly handle a beta friend’s GF.

    2. If you wore those shoes in a non-workout, social setting…she was just making fun of you. No teasing there, buddy. You just looked like an ass.

    Like


  57. I think I found the Beta of the decade (read the whole article, plenty or red flags for this woman):

    “Surprised UT professor lands in matrimonial state”

    http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091223/NEWS16/912230363

    Like


  58. Roissy do a story on the Gate Crashers….its in your fucking backyard….and seems to show that a fair amount of beta-gamers use fraud.

    This guy is no alpha, but

    beta + fraud = Alpha >

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/21/AR2009122103611.html?hpid=topnews

    Like


  59. on December 23, 2009 at 1:22 pm gunslingergregi

    Naa that was cute if ya read it they allready were married legaly just no ceremony. He got the marriage license a week before that.

    Like


  60. @Frosty
    DC COP WAVES GUN AT SNOWBALL FIGHT
    http://www.citizentube.com/2009/12/caught-on-tape-dc-cop-waves-gun-at.html

    Holy shit. If I was that cop I shoot every one of those nancy white boys. You can just hear the beta dripping from his lips when he yells “Fuck you, pig”. His voice cracking all the way. Not to mention the girl who comes to join in on the attack. Her voice sounds like nails on a chalkboard…as I picture all female posters on this blog voices would sound. This is why I hate humans.

    Keep fighting the “power”, you dumb fucks.

    Like


  61. on January 3, 2010 at 3:19 am msexceptiontotherule

    …exterminate…(darleks assembling in vast numbers all repeating this same word in a very mechanical sounding and irritating way)

    “Who are you?”

    “I’m the doctor.”

    “The doctor? Doctor who?”

    When it all comes down to it, if you don’t want to face hearing your ladyfriend talking about some other man, even just occasionally, it’s probably not going to be solved by going out and banging other women. If she’s worth it enough to get into a ltr with her, maybe it should be worth the time to give her some bedroom-type reasons 9 ways to Sunday to only think of you.

    Like