Prole Vs SWPL

Half Sigma has a running gag on his blog comparing the tastes of proles (the proletariat, i.e. the working class and lower middle class, with perhaps some bleeding into the middle class) with those of the higher classes. I can’t tell if he’s being ironically deadpan or sincere, but it’s funny nonetheless. Categorizing the peculiarities of your lessers is so much more entertaining than watching Dancing With The Stars.

For instance, did you know that Red Delicious apples are prole while Fuji apples are SWPL? I always had a vague inkling that was the case, but now I know why: Red Delicious are oversized, gaudy, juicy and excessively sweet. Fujis are a more natural size, less ostentatious, less juicy and mildly sweet with subtle earthy undertones. This pretty much encapsulates the difference in class tastes; proles have an underdeveloped aesthetic that can only appreciate the bluntness of flash and tackiness, much like how an infant is drawn to bright primary colors. SWPLs have a mature aesthetic that gravitates to understatement, irony, and “hidden meanings”. On the color wheel, SWPLs would be the tertiary colors (red-orange, blue-green). This is because they are mincing little pukes who love to nuance everything to death.

I’m gonna run with this. Expanding on Half Sigma’s theme, here is my prole vs SWPL chart. I count SWPLs as generally middle to upper middle class whites (and some honorary Asians), raised through their formative years in leafy suburbs, and living in hip urban enclaves with other like-minded whites, often on their parents’ dimes. Hipsters, scenesters and yuppies are SWPL subgroups. Their tastes tend to converge even when their politics don’t (although as a rule SWPLs are pretty much standard operating procedure liberals. A conservative SWPL is what’s known as a “benefactor”. Or an engineer.)

Conservative and liberal SWPLs co-locate. Proles cohabitate.

If you have to ask what the acronym SWPL means, you are a prole. Or a foreigner.

Multicolored Christmas lights – prole
White or blue Christmas lights – SWPL
Bulb ornaments – prole
Antique doll ornaments – SWPL
Actual star or an angel on top of tree – prole
Homemade concoction by niece or a cubist representation of a star on top of tree – SWPL
Inflatable Santa and reindeer on front lawn – prole
Only decoration is Christmas tree in window and perhaps wreath on front door – SWPL
Nativity scenes – prole
Christmas miniature villages – SWPL
Kids get electronic toys minus the batteries – prole
Kids get puzzles, books, board games and art supplies with batteries included where necessary – SWPL
CVS brand batteries – prole
Rechargeable batteries (or better still, solar recharging) – SWPL
USAToday – prole
NYBTimes – SWPL
Glenn Beck – prole
Steve Sailer – SWPL
Jim Webb – prole
Nancy Pelosi – SWPL
Alarm clock set to morning zoo radio program – prole
Alarm clock set to soothing cadence of NPR – SWPL
Cloth sofas – prole
Microfiber sofas – SWPL
Motorcycles – prole
Scooters – SWPL
Tuna fish – prole
Salmon – SWPL
Bartlett pears – prole
Asian pears – SWPL
Barbequed ribs – prole
Bison meat – SWPL
Shredded cheese – prole
Smelly cheese – SWPL
Porn with anal penetration and loud, fake moaning from the girls – prole
Regular sex porn with pink-haired emo girls squeaking like mice – SWPL
Sluts – prole
Sluts pretending to be good girls – SWPL
Public sex – prole
Role playing – SWPL
Diabetes – prole
Stress fractures – SWPL
Sugary cereal – prole
Paleo diet – SWPL
Domestic industrial beer – prole
Microbrews – SWPL
Zinfandel – high prole
Pinot noir – SWPL
Shot glasses from different cities and vacation spots – prole
Stemless wine glasses – SWPL
Blended whiskey – prole
Single malt scotch – SWPL
Gays seen as threat or butt of jokes – prole
Gays seen as cool social ornaments or butt of jokes smoothed over with ironic plausible deniability – SWPL
Meth – prole
Coke – SWPL
Weight room – prole
Yoga – SWPL
Backyard wrestling – prole
Marathon running – SWPL
Biceps (men), tits (women) – prole
Six pack (men), calves (women) – SWPL
Children – prole
Apartment sized pets – SWPL
Home installing – prole
Home brewing – SWPL
Decks – prole
Patios – SWPL
Lawns – prole
Gardens – SWPL
“No fat chicks” t-shirt – prole
“This is what a feminist looks like” t-shirt – SWPL
NRA – prole
ACLU – SWPL
Cable – prole
Streaming video – SWPL
QVC – prole
Adult Swim – SWPL
Leno, CSI, DWTS, American Idol, Sarah Palin’s Alaska – prole
Stewart, Colbert, O’Brien, Tosh.o, Tim and Eric – SWPL
NASCAR, UFC – prole
Soccer, tennis – SWPL
Sleeps with fat chicks but would prefer skinny chicks – prole
Sleeps with skinny chicks but claims fat chicks would be perfectly fine – SWPL
Knows what the meaning of “is” is – prole
Knows what the meaning of “is” is, but pretends not to – SWPL
Paid summer jobs (or unemployment) – prole
Unpaid summer internships (AKA unemployment) – SWPL
Disney World – prole
Amsterdam – SWPL
Cleveland – prole
San Francis – SWPL
Patriotism, anti-quotas, de facto integrationism – prole
Feminism, anti-racism, de facto segregationism – SWPL
Transformers – prole
The Kids Are All Right – SWPL
“Show us your tits!” – prole
“Hey ho hey ho, Western culture’s gotta go” – SWPL
Family lives close by (no buffer zone) – prole
Family lives three flyover states away (buffer zone) – SWPL
WWJD? – prole
COEXIST – SWPL
First person shooter – prole
RTS or MMORPG – SWPL
Ford F150 – prole
Vespa – SWPL
Church – prole
Sunday brunch mimosas – SWPL
Drinking and fighting – prole
Drinking and snippily chastising – SWPL
Basement parties – prole
Stoop parties – SWPL
Naturals – prole
PUAs – SWPL
Taylor Swift – prole
MGMT – SWPL
Tom Cruise – prole
Colin Firth – SWPL
Nikes – prole
Vibram Fivefingers – SWPL
Lynyrd Skynyrd t-shirts – prole
Thinkgeek.com t-shirts – SWPL
Motorola  – prole
iPhone – SWPL
Bumping and grinding – prole
Salsa lessons – SWPL
Single moms – prole
Single – SWPL
Wolf whistling – prole
Shy glances – SWPL
PeopleofWalmart.com – prole
Will Wilkinson – SWPL
Divvies the check up by the exact amount each person in a party owes – prole
Splits the check evenly by number of party members – SWPL
Kiddie beauty pageants – prole
Kiddie bilingualism – SWPL

These are, of course, generalizations. Exceptions exist.

I give SWPLs a lot of shit for their hypocrisy, sanctimony and status whoring, but I wouldn’t want to live, for example, a prole lifestyle in a redneck neighborhood where COPS isn’t just a show on TV. The lower classes are crass, boorish and often thoughtlessly impulsive. Their kids are snot-nosed brats and bullies. When they speak their rudimentary patois, you will cringe. Their abysmal taste in the finer pleasures of life is a perpetual turn-off for those who would be their natural political allies. But they already get so much shit from the MSM that I don’t feel an urge to pile on them. I prefer to hunt the hunters.

Low class antics aside, working class proles are, by and large, honorable people. SWPLs are clever neutered ciphers. The average small town prole is much more genial than the typical urban SWPL, and more generous of spirit as well. When charitable giving is on the line, or when it’s a friendly voice and a warm smile you need, proles step up to the plate. SWPLs, meanwhile, are busy quipping like French aristocrats trying so SOO hard to impress their fellow SWPLs.

Proles are the backbone of vital enterprises like the military, but they could learn a thing or two from the culturally advanced classes. Of course, being proles, they probably don’t give a shit about impressing the SWPL schoolmarms, or they at least act like they don’t give a shit. And quite frankly, I don’t blame them for eschewing SWPL tastes. Aside from the aesthetics, what is there to admire in such a repugnantly self-regarding group of irony-pimping, snark-spitting, transnationalist, post-American lifestyle whores?

Both groups are signaling their status through their tastes, so morally neither one is better than the other. They are both sheep with a herd mentality, just following different herds. But an objective aesthetic judgement can be made that at least some (not all) of the SWPL tastes are superior. (Some taste differences are just downright arbitrary, and probably serve more as markers of delineation from perceived lower classes — AKA “wrong kind of white people” — than as honestly felt improvements in quality of life. For instance, there’s nothing about multicolored Christmas lights that makes them inherently inferior to white Christmas lights. In fact, not long ago, white lights were considered gauche.)

I always advise pay no heed to what women say; instead, watch what they do. You shall know them by their actions. Well, the same could be said for the places you choose to live and the people with whom you choose to associate.

Look around you. Do you feel a twinge of cognitive dissonance? Yet you admit to yourself it is a pretty good life. Don’t underestimate the satisfying feeling of being a dark force moving stealthily through the oblivious masses. They will do your bidding.





Comments


  1. “I always advise pay no heed to what women say; instead, watch what they do. You shall know them by their actions. Well, the same could be said for the places you choose to live and the people with whom you choose to associate.

    Look around you. Do you feel a twinge of cognitive dissonance? Yet you admit to yourself it is a pretty good life. Don’t underestimate the satisfying feeling of being a dark force moving stealthily through the oblivious masses. They will do your bidding.”

    Sound advice for any situation. I’d go as far as to say never judge anyone by words alone – actions are what count.

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  2. Nice ending, Roissy,

    “Look around you. Do you feel a twinge of cognitive dissonance? Yet you admit to yourself it is a pretty good life. Don’t underestimate the satisfying feeling of being a dark force moving stealthily through the oblivious masses. They will do your bidding.”

    Reminded me of Dune…

    “How would you like to live billions upon billions of lives?” Paul asked. “There’s a fabric of legends for you? Think of all those experiences, the wisdom they’d bring. But wisdom tempers love, doesn’t it? And it puts a new shape on hate. How can you tell what’s ruthless unless you’ve plumbed the depths of both cruelty and kindness? You should fear me, Mother. I am the Kwisatz Haderach.”

    Sheer the female sheeple, that’s what they’re for.

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  3. on December 29, 2010 at 11:24 am Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

    proles = proles
    outer party = betas
    inner party = alphas
    room 101 = win

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  4. Steve Sailer – SWPL
    Nancy Pelosi – SWPL

    My head is exploding that both of these could simultaneously be SWPL taste. Pelosi, for sure. Sailer, queue the dirty racist meme.

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  5. Isn’t it also true that a large part of what CR is doing for us its adepts is teaching SWPL men (marinated in SWPL’s essential betatude) some of the manners and mores of prole? I’m sure that the distribution of alphas and betas is not significantly different than it is among SWPLs, but prole behavior is so much less evolved – and therefore has better mechanisms to teach at least the imitation of alphaness in manners.

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  6. I never quite understood the SWPL website but according to your list I’m more prole than SWPL. Mystery solved!

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  7. Menthol – lesser prole
    Generic 100s – Prole
    Name-brand regulars – SWPL
    Clove – ultra SWPL

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  8. on December 29, 2010 at 11:36 am Caesar Augustus

    You made few references to the quality of women each group offers. As I’ve observed before SWPL girls keep in much better shape and are more attractive than their prole counterparts. I’ll take a sanctimonious cunt who shops at Whole Foods over a slob who chokes down fast food any day.

    Liked by 1 person


  9. on December 29, 2010 at 11:38 am Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

    @PA: you forgot Gauloises… HYPER-SWPL…

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  10. i don’t get the “is” thing.

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  11. on December 29, 2010 at 11:48 am Caesar Augustus

    I will acknowledge that betatude is more common in the SWPL, but interestingly gorgeous alpha females are more common in the SWPL category also. Which much like the Rome discussion brought up leads me to believe that luxury is detrimental to men.

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  12. Steve Sailer a SWPL!?!

    They probably don’t even know who Sailer is and would despise him if they did with his talk of demography, race and IQ.

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  13. I don’t know about conservatives using the term “flyover states” except in sarcsm. In my experience those using it seriously are self-conscious douche bags that won’t admit they grew up in a small town then moved to “the big city”. They’re typically the first to be caustically condescending in attempt to cover for a background of which they’re embarrassed. You have to ask them several times where they’re from before red-faced they’ll admit it.

    Liked by 1 person


  14. There is a Lesser Prole subset of proles. It excludes normal “proles” such as skilled tradesmen or cops and EMTs, who tend to have a lot of practical intelligence and strong families.

    Lesser Proles come from unskilled backgrounds, alcohol abuse, and bad family situations; crime is also not unheard of there. What’s interesting about them is that a major change occurred around 1990. In the 80s when I was in high school, they used to look like THIS (start watching around the 40 sec. mark).

    Since then, though, guys who look like ones in the video, became extinct and took a turn for whiger. Among males, this manifested itself in their clothes and type of music they listened to (no more heavy metal). In females, it was in who they date.

    The old long-hair, heavy metal, jean-jacket guys were assholes and feathered-hair Lita-Ford-lookalike chicks had their faults, but I related to them on some level, and I miss them. Today’s whiger proles, though, I can not relate to on pretty much any level.

    Liked by 1 person


  15. segmenting the population is fun I guess

    the problem is that a lot of SWPL are dependent on gov for jobs and ascribe themselves as being in control if that illusion dissipates they simply become a different flavor on the bottom of the barrel

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  16. on December 29, 2010 at 12:12 pm French Connection

    Blogging strikes me as rather SWPL…
    (we love it)

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  17. GOP neocons:redneck proles::SWPL dems:minority project denziens

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  18. I have to wonder how much of the “goodness” of the proles is affected by recieving welfare checks.

    My theory is that welfare poisons the soul of the people to turn them in even bigger shepple.

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  19. It’s funny because it’s true.

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  20. SWPL=female
    Prole=male

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  21. on December 29, 2010 at 1:01 pm The Man Who Was . . .

    working class proles are, by and large, honorable people

    Noooooo! So untrue. They (sometimes) profess an adherence to traditional values, but then they largely don’t bother to much practice them. Steve Sailer has remarked on how much nicer smarter people tend to be, and its true. Proles can be friendly. After all they have to keep making new friends, because they keep screwing over their old ones. These are the kind of people that will sleep with their brother’s (or best friend’s) wife at the drop of a hat.

    [Editor: Good point. I guess I was trying to cut the proles a break, infused as I was with holiday spirit.]

    To borrow one of Steve’s favourite Kingsley Amis quotes, “There is no end to the way nice things are nicer than nasty ones.” The only real exception to this is all the status whoring that starts among the middle and upper middle classes.

    I have to say that Roissy is probably confusing the broad middle classes with proles. Most military folk tend to come from the higher prole to middle classes, I would guess. So do most of the other salt of the earth types.

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  22. I’m content that I came out as a mix on that list, sometimes not accepting I have to choose between the items, and liking both. I think what saves me is my blue-collar upbringing and that after 10 years, I admitted to myself that I just couldn’t stand the DC area and moved to a tiny town in a red state. While I’m still liberal, I’m much more at home here than in that caustic hell hole.

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  23. Fishing – prole
    Fish – SWPL
    99 cent menu – prole
    Menus with no decimal places – SWPL
    The Internet – prole
    Google Reader – SWPL
    4 children – prole
    5 abortions – SWPL
    Interracial sex – prole
    Interracial jazz band – SWPL
    Flipper baby – prole
    Flipper baby research – SWPL
    Complaining about “blacks” – prole
    Ironically saying “niggers” – SWPL
    Talking about pussy – prole
    Reading about pussy – SWPL
    Getting drunk and shouting obscenities – prole
    Bukowski – SWPL
    The Army – prole
    Our Mission in Afghanistan – SWPL
    Tucker Max – prole
    Citizen Renegade (still referred to as “Roissy” despite knowing better) – SWPL
    Work – prole
    Blogging from cubicle – SWPL
    Main Street – prole
    Exile on Main Street – SWPL
    Celebrities – prole
    Trivia – SWPL
    Mowing lawn – prole
    Watering plants in loft – SWPL (I would have also accepting paying an illegal alien to water plants in loft)
    Hookers – prole
    Underage hookers in Thailand – SWPL

    Liked by 1 person


  24. Good point dana. I remember someone saying if families could chose the sex of their children prole families would heavily favor boys and SWPL families prefer girls.

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  25. Curious. Has this post disappeared from the front page or is it just me?

    @Science
    ‘is’. Reference to Clinton/Lewinsky

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  26. Paul Fussell did this 30 years ago in his book, “Class.”

    http://www.amazon.com/Class-Through-American-Status-System/dp/0671792253/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1293647564&sr=8-1

    Great book, highly recommended.

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  27. Multicolored Christmas lights – prole
    Bulb ornaments – prole
    Actual star or an angel on top of tree – prole
    Only decoration is Christmas tree in window and perhaps wreath on front door – SWPL
    Kids get electronic toys minus the batteries – prole
    Kids get puzzles, books, board games and art supplies with batteries included where necessary – SWPL
    Steve Sailer – SWPL
    Jim Webb – prole
    Cloth sofas – prole
    Tuna fish – prole
    Salmon – SWPL
    Barbequed ribs – prole
    Shredded cheese – prole
    Smelly cheese – SWPL
    Porn with anal penetration and loud, fake moaning from the girls – prole
    Sluts – prole
    Sluts pretending to be good girls – SWPL
    Public sex – prole
    Sugary cereal – prole
    Paleo diet – SWPL
    Domestic industrial beer – prole
    Microbrews – SWPL
    Single malt scotch – SWPL
    Gays seen as threat or butt of jokes – prole
    Gays seen as cool social ornaments or butt of jokes smoothed over with ironic plausible deniability – SWPL
    Coke – SWPL
    Weight room – prole
    Backyard wrestling – prole
    Biceps (men), tits (women) – prole
    Apartment sized pets – SWPL
    Lawns – prole
    Cable – prole
    Streaming video – SWPL
    Adult Swim – SWPL
    Sleeps with fat chicks but would prefer skinny chicks – prole
    Knows what the meaning of “is” is – prole
    Paid summer jobs (or unemployment) – prole
    Disney World – prole
    Patriotism, anti-quotas, de facto integrationism – prole
    Family lives close by (no buffer zone) – prole
    First person shooter – prole
    Ford F150 – prole
    Salsa lessons – SWPL
    Single moms – prole
    Single – SWPL
    PeopleofWalmart.com – prole
    Will Wilkinson – SWPL

    Personal score: SWPL 17, prole 30

    Observations

    Steve Sailer as SWPL—Yeah, but with a few mild caveats.

    Coke as SWPL—That’s highly variable. Coke with your prep school friends: unambiguously SWPL. Coke with your ex-con restaurant coworkers—prole.

    Ford F150—in my case, Chevy Silverado.

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  28. Wait, why the FUCK did I leave Will Wilkinson on there? SWPL 16.

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  29. on December 29, 2010 at 1:46 pm (r)Evolutionary

    Interesting. You’ve done a great job atomizing the cultural boundary layer. As in the natural world, the richest areas of activity, the ripest fruit for the picking, are found at the fluid intersection of these two cultural memes.

    Meaning, SWPL chicks get wet when you take them to the gun range, and prole chicks feel special when you take them tequila tasting. It’s all about contrast. For myself, coming from a prole upbringing but bursting onto the SWPL scene accidentally through education and demography, I find great pleasure, and alpha empowerment through tweaking the nose of my SWPL social set with the maschismo touches of the proletariat, doing so proudly, with no hint of shame for my prole roots. Game taught me this, or I learned it through the study & practice of game. And damn it feels good.

    The urban/rural dichotomy is also duly noted. I’ve noticed, again, that inversions in this schema create interesting places–small towns (hippie mountain towns, small liberal college towns) that have higher SWPL percentages tend to be really cool places, because the SWPL tastes elevate the sensibilities of the place, and the warm social timbre of the proletariat is preserved. However large urban centers dominated by proles (Detroit, for example, or Compton/Watts/South Central LA) tend to be culturally depleted war zones without the temperance provided by the SWPL betatude.

    Liked by 1 person


  30. Zinfandel for prole wine? I thought it would have been wine coolers. Or, better, none at all.

    @dana- I would have said prole= masculine, SWPL= feminine. Both classes obviously have both sexes. but good addition.

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  31. I think the swpl preference for six-packs is a bleed over from over familiarity with gay norms. Chicks always dig the guns and I doubt many swpl (at least in dc) are sporting either the pack or ceps.

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  32. prole: single motherhood in your teens or early 20s

    SWPL: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/02/magazine/02babymaking-t.html?hp

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  33. So why does this post keep fading in and out of existence on the main page?

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  34. The UK is ever so slightly different in what is distinctly prole or SWPL, but the essential differences and social dynamic are the same. Furthermore, in spite of my SWPL-bashing right-wingery, I am moving to a SWPL-heavy city. I told a friend and he said “but it’s full of lefties!” but I would much rather grin and bear their antics than put up with the sort of proles I’ve been working with back home for the past 3 months. The main function of SWPL-bashing is not to hate their culture (except the hand-flapping hipster liberalisms), but to highlight their hypocrisy and ulterior psychological motives. It’s difficult being middle-class and right-wing.

    Proles are indeed far more genuine and less ‘underhand’ in their manner, this is perhaps because they don’t have the psychological development to sublimate their feelings towards other people. This is probably why their political views are based on intuition than self-consciousness.

    SWPLs just don’t realise their high-minded posturing is simply evolutionary mechanics sublimated into something else.

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  35. this is great and all, but about that pink-haired emo chick porn…

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  36. Serious question: on what basis can one aesthetic judgment can be deemed “objectively superior” to another?

    My answer: You can’t. You wouldn’t argue that someone is “wrong” if they prefer vanilla ice cream to chocolate, or vice versa. Any argument you make for one or the other, no matter how layered or complex, is ultimately going to be based on a simple “because I just like it” or “because I just don’t like” reason, and never the twain shall meet.

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  37. Nativity scenes – prole
    Christmas miniature villages – SWPL

    ah, the war on Christmas, not only are these SWPL’s post American, they’re also post Christian. Apparently all these days off and all this present giving is a result of a winter celebrations or pre-industrial England or something. Wonder what they do in Australia?

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  38. @ (r)Evolutionary

    You are living my life.

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  39. However large urban centers dominated by proles (Detroit, for example, or Compton/Watts/South Central LA) tend to be culturally depleted war zones without the temperance provided by the SWPL betatude.

    um, your understanding of “prole” may not be ah…accurate.

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  40. OK. Can someone give me the definition and explain how SWPL came about?

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  41. @anon.
    no.

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  42. @backdoor
    SWPL: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/02/magazine/02babymaking-t.html?hp

    cliffs:
    Rich herb marries barren older, SWPL ex-carousel rider. Pisses small fortune away for spawn from other women when marrying 20-something would have been free.

    *Shudder*

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  43. OK. Can someone give me the definition and explain how SWPL came about?

    Uh, Google it?

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  44. Interesting.

    So you dont have to fit 100% in each category, I supose.

    Me, I must be like 70% prole and 30% “SWPL”.

    Prole is my default. I am, indeed, born of german proles in south Brazil. (We are not here long enough to have white trash though – or maybe our white proles are hard working enough to avoid that).

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  45. @ Crash

    Serious question: on what basis can one aesthetic judgment can be deemed “objectively superior” to another?

    My answer: You can’t. You wouldn’t argue that someone is “wrong” if they prefer vanilla ice cream to chocolate, or vice versa. Any argument you make for one or the other, no matter how layered or complex, is ultimately going to be based on a simple “because I just like it” or “because I just don’t like” reason, and never the twain shall meet.

    Wrong.

    You can tell by how much refinement is put in the object of the taste.

    And by refinement I dont mean how much snob you are about it.

    I mean in terms of how much ellaboration effort (be it technical or artistic or other) is put. Poetic justification counts, of couse. Conceptual refinement counts as well.

    The industrial beer Vs artisanal beer is a good exemple of the latter.

    Its paradoxical however, that sometimes refinement is found in simple things.

    Its not about “vanilla or chocolate ice cream”. Its about “industrial ice cream” versus “industrial ice cream Versus artisanal swiss special recipe ice cream” that dont taste like an overdose of glicosis syrup.

    Period.

    Your relativism never made good wines.

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  46. Bowling is prole, unless the bowling alley is on your yacht or in your “mansion west”.

    And then you would probably not play it yourself, but have the help do it and just bet (apologies Thurston, I meant to say wager.)on them with your friends.

    Eisenhower republicans = high class/golf, Bush republicans = low class/NASCAR.

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  47. I consider my tastes to be very sophisticated. I can run circles around most SWPLs in any category of interest you can name. However, I can’t stand most of them. They’re cowardly, useless, pretentious douchbags. Did you know that SWPL things here are often prole things in Europe? Moreover, its usually a third rate imitation that’s being swooned over in the US as well. Give me a working man over a pseudo educated SWPL douchbag to hang out with any day. Proles produce, SWPLs consume.

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  48. Its not about “vanilla or chocolate ice cream”. Its about “industrial ice cream” versus “industrial ice cream Versus artisanal swiss special recipe ice cream” that dont taste like an overdose of glicosis syrup.

    I disagree. The host hits on it…the status whore preening of it all.

    Proles can like nice things too. They can also appreciate cheap beer because they aren’t rich enough to blow $8 on a sixpack.

    The real difference is that proles don’t think that shopping at Whole Foods makes them a better person. SWPL’s think that they enjoy sushi on a much higher level than Sarah Palin ever could.

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  49. Ever notice that SWPLs are the kind of people who insert a lubed finger in their ass while they masterbate.

    Strange.

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  50. I don’t know about home brewing, I’d say it’s more prole and that home wine making would be SWPL.

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  51. on December 29, 2010 at 3:47 pm helene edwards

    How come there’s no comic act to the effect, “you might be a SWPL if …”? Let’s start. “If you’ve ever told anyone how great Kiwi fruit is, you might be a SWPL.”

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  52. More observations –

    Not liking to admit you have SWPL tastes = high SWPL

    FoxNews = SWPL
    Local news = prole

    Internet = SWPL
    Blogging = SWPL
    TV = prole

    15 minute oil change = SWPL
    change your own oil = high prole

    See the orthopedist = high SWPL
    Flu shot at CVS = high prole

    own your home = SWPL
    rent = prole

    Read the NYT on Sunday instead of church = high SWPL
    Scream at kids to get their behind to church now = high prole

    Latest Kindle = uber SWPL
    What’s Kindle? = prole

    Adopt daughter from China = uber SWPL
    Abort daughter after sex with new lover = high prole

    Update Facebook page daily = SWPL
    Internet access at public library = high prole

    easy to go on and on….

    Like


  53. @ Rant Casey

    Why does the degree of refinement lead to objective superiority?

    The amount of work put into something does not always, or even most of the time, create a higher level of enjoyment. A pop song that Paul McCartney dashed off in 3 minutes is (usually) more impressive than a 20 minute Rush nerd-rock opus.

    You yourself said that more refinement can often found in simpler things. It sounds like the definition of refinement you’re using is just whatever you like. Which goes back to my first point—come up with all the justifications you like, but ultimately you like what you like and like what you don’t like.

    Like


  54. “Regular sex porn with pink-haired emo girls squeaking like mice – SWPL”

    This is cool, as long as there are no actual mice involved.

    Like


  55. Racist — prole
    Anti-racist — SWPL

    I submit that the reason SWPLs are so virulently anti-racist, by and large, is because they want to distinguish themselves from the same skin colored proles.

    Like


  56. I submit that the reason SWPLs are so virulently anti-racist, by and large, is because they want to distinguish themselves from the same skin colored proles.

    Duh!

    http://www.counter-currents.com/2010/12/smells-like-white-guilt-christian-landers-whiter-shades-of-pale/

    Like


  57. @HUX

    Not liking to admit you have SWPL tastes = high SWPL

    FoxNews = SWPL
    Local news = prole

    Internet = SWPL
    Blogging = SWPL
    TV = prole

    15 minute oil change = SWPL
    change your own oil = high prole

    Yes, nicely done.

    Like


  58. on December 29, 2010 at 4:17 pm Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

    FoxNews = SWPL

    You fail it, or do not live in the US within 150mi of salt water.

    Like


  59. @ Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

    FoxNews = SWPL

    You fail it, or do not live in the US within 150mi of salt water.

    In relation to local news he is unambiguously correct. HUX for the win!

    Like


  60. Here is a quote that might add an interesting perspective

    “When engaging in short-term mating strategies, women should be attracted by good genes indicators – such as physical attractiveness, masculinity, body and facial symmetry, verbal intelligence, creativity, and dominance”

    Prole culture seems to select more for masculinity and dominance in men, whereas SWPL culture selects more for verbal intelligence and creativity.

    Culture could be seen as an arena where certain “good gene” qualities are selected over others. So, excessive displays of verbal intelligence and creativity in a more proletarian culture will be seen as “gay” and “snobby”, and excessive displays of masculinity and dominance could be seen as “primitive” and “barbaric” in a more SWPL culture. I am just throwing this out there.

    This might seem a little off topic, but any comments on this
    “”Well, look at you, “Mystery said. “You look average. People think if they look generic, then they can seduce a wide array of women. Not true. You have to specialize. If you look average, you’re going to get average girls. Your khaki pants are for the office. They’re not for clubs. And your sweater—burn it. You need to be bigger than life. I’m talking over the top. If you want to get 10s, you need to learn peacock theory.”

    Mystery loved theories. Peacock theory is the idea that in order to attract the most desirable female of the species, it’s necessary to stand out in a flashy and colorful way. For humans, he told us, the equivalent of the fanned peacock tail is a shiny shirt, a garish hat, and jewelry that lights up in the dark—basically, everything I’d dismissed my whole life as cheesy.”

    I am not sure 100 percent of the context when he states the word “need”, is it hyperbole, or literal. Is peacocking an absolute necessity to get the 10?

    Also, to carry this back to the original point. It could also be part of the culture as well. Peacocking would probably be more effective in a liberal white bohemian culture as opposed to a proletarian one. Again, due to the cultural selection for creativity.

    Like


  61. ROISSY DOESNT KNOW HIS WINE!

    He is a prole!

    Zinfandel is not prole. Rather, WHITE Zinfandal (or really just about any “White” version of a red grape wine) is.

    Zinfandel on its own is a decent red grape comparable to a Pinot Noir.

    PWNED PWNED PWNED

    Like


  62. @ Crash

    Why does the degree of refinement lead to objective superiority?

    Picture a bunch of hienas eating a rotting carcass. Now picture a group of humans roasting an auroch.

    Refinement separated us from animals.

    Now picure a french chief using the finest spices to prepare the same auroch.

    Refinement puts humanity one step further.

    Now you can do the same to cave paintings and the Sistine Chappel. You see… Michalangelo had to work his ass off, both in time investment, technical investment, and conceptual investment.

    But some artsy douchebag taking pictures of plastic bags in the wind is not necessarely a refinement – its onanism pretending to be refinement.

    It shouldnt be so hard to grasp, man…

    I bet you’re good on math. I’ve seen pretty intelligent guys having a hard time trying to discern things that cant be quantified.

    The amount of work put into something does not always, or even most of the time, create a higher level of <b.enjoyment. A pop song that Paul McCartney dashed off in 3 minutes is (usually) more impressive than a 20 minute Rush nerd-rock opus.

    Frist, by “amount of work” you make me think you refer to “amount of time/effort” spent. That do not always equals refinement.

    You gave a good exemple on music. You see… Heavy Metal is sometimes a pretty ellaborated genre in technical terms – and it requires a big amount of work – but its a very prole kind of music [IMO]. (Even though I dont think McCartney qualifies as something refined…)

    Take this exemple to sports: boxing is the most demanding sport ever, and aside from a couple nobles betting on it, its not refined.

    Now fencing, it is.

    Sometimes tradition is envolved – and that pretty much distinguishes the SWPL philistine from the real Upper Classe Classy motherfucker.

    The “amount of work” referred is sometimes, a conceptual work. So its not how much you sweat doing this or that, but, objectively, how are you sweating.

    Does it have Grandiose? Does it have a component of Transcendent expression? Or put more simple: do you put it in a superior level?

    The artsy douchebag and his plastic bag couldn’t be more mundane.

    You yourself said that more refinement can often found in simpler things. It sounds like the definition of refinement you’re using is just whatever you like. Which goes back to my first point—come up with all the justifications you like, but ultimately you like what you like and like what you don’t like.

    When I said refinement can be found in simpler things, you can think of a golden ring with a saphire, instead of a rapper ring for 2 fingers at a time, with forms some acronym with letters, made in gold.

    See where I’m getting at?

    Like Scott Lockling said at Alternative Right: both Upper Class and a prole would enjoy buliding a submarine. But the latter would put chrome everywhere.

    ***

    Man, you are really pushing me.

    Not only its a complex stuff as hell, I’m also trying to do it in english – and I’m a portuguese speaking guy.

    Anyway, I’m doing my best… hope I’m suceeding in trying to make my point.

    Like


  63. Why the hell did I say sapphire when I was thinking of emeralds…

    Like


  64. “Multicolored Christmas lights – prole
    Bulb ornaments – prole
    Actual star or an angel on top of tree – prole”

    Hell, I’m as SWPL as they come – but when it comes to Christmas I go with all the above. I think most people from old line WASP families do – it’s only the nouveau riche or people with no kids who try to go with the tasteful white light crap.

    Like


  65. @Roissy
    Motorcycles need more clarification:
    Japanese Crotch Rockets, American Roadsters, dirt bikes, ATVs, boats = Prole
    Italian Sport Bikes & German Dual Sports = SWPL

    @ Hux
    Renting House = Prole
    Owning House = approaching SWPL
    Owning House and Renting it to a Prole = Ultra SWPL

    Myspace = low prole
    Facebook = Prole through SWPL
    Refusing to use Facebook = Ultra SWPL (fuck facebook!!)

    Cars:
    Ford = Prole
    Volvo = SWPL

    Like


  66. Hm, 30% prole, 70% SWPL. WTF?

    Like


  67. Swpl-ism is the only acceptabale white cultural archetype.

    Indulgence in swpl-ism seems to be a way for many whites to effectively say: “dont blame me, Im not one of those bad white people the media has endlessly depicted as ruining everything in the world”. Its kind of evocative of that primate “fear grin” that lesser apes display towards the alpha apes to show that they are no threat, as a cultural style one can wear like a jacket and display to the world that they are on the side of the ‘good guys’.

    I would guess that in the empire of their private thoughts, the ones they dont share with anyone out of social fear, many swpls are simply clinging to the safety of the herd, afraid of social exclusion, and know full well how empty and fruitless the majority of their gestures are. Any of them who are numerate know that shopping at Whole Foods isn’t going to save anything, and that their patronage of many musical/comedic acts is out of confomity to their herds instead of truly enjoying the fare. Much of what swpls do is signalling status, but if status is essential to mating-viability, then swpl-ism itself is a mating strategy for aligning oneself with the social set that they feel gives them the best chance to have the highest-status, and most plentiful allies.

    Like


  68. Trying to portray yourself as a prole when you’re clearly not = swpl hipster

    Like


  69. Almost all of the people who read this blog have to be SWPL.

    So what does that make us: self-hating members of a privileged class?

    Like


  70. Gorbachev –

    Yeah.

    We are raising the bar for white guilt.

    We are more SWPL than the regular SWPL.

    Beat that… SWPL rookies!

    Like


  71. While I can’t honestly identify as either, I’m probably more prole than SWPL. I’m a USMC recruit, colossal gun nut and serious outdoorsman, don’t wear trendy clothes, listen to heavy metal, etc…yet I’m also a big reader, I drink fancy sounding tea, play D&D and all sorts of obscure videogames, etc. I don’t have any shame in enjoying certain things that would be “out of character”, because I’m an oddball with no “social placement” in the first place

    Becuase of my hobbies I would generally prefer to be among proles in a rural setting…but I’ll admit that for all their flaws I actually prefer SWPL women to country women…at least the ones around here who are either kinda sweet but unatractive/very plain looking…or the rare hot ones, which are pretty much the sluttiest, most classless women you will ever meet and think they’re gods gift to men because they can ride an ATV or handle a shotgun while in possesion of a vagina.

    So anyway I have a weird ability to mingle with either group…though I can’t stand “extremes” of either group…
    Probably has something to do with the fact that I’m the offspring of (back in their younger days) a drunken prole dad and a liberal arts major mom.

    Like


  72. on December 29, 2010 at 5:14 pm logicwontgetmelaid

    “But an objective aesthetic judgement can be made that at least some (not all) of the SWPL tastes are superior.”

    By which process can we come to the conclusion that one cookie is better than the other? By what metric? If someone prefers burnt cookies to “perfectly” cooked ones, how can they possibly be considered wrong? Objective taste is an oxymoron.

    Like


  73. Rant Casey, some guy called Pirsig wrote a whole book trying to define the term “quality”. Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.

    I disagree with the premise that quality is not quantifiable. It is, but we are unable to put into a single formula what the quantities are. Our brain is better at a wholistic vision than understanding the parts that make up the judgment. We are a bit like girls this way; by nature we don’t know why or what we feel.

    Like


  74. Sorry Roissy, but there is more to preferences than signaling. However, for some, like yourself, signaling may weigh more heavily than other factors.

    Like


  75. on December 29, 2010 at 5:20 pm Chad Buffington

    They really are two sides of the same coin

    Hasbro – prole
    Playmobil – SWPL

    ‘Serves his country’ by joining the military – prole
    ‘Serves her country’ by joining a think tank – SWPL

    Gambles on the lottery – prole
    Gambles on the stock market – SWPL

    Buys manufactured goods – prole
    Buys handcrafted goods – SWPL

    Watches blockbusters – prole
    Watches art house flicks – SWPL

    Believes in the institution of marriage but has children out of wedlock – prole
    Claims marriage is discriminatory and antiquated but rarely has children outside a marriage / committed relationship – SWPL

    Russell Athletic – prole
    The North Face – SWPL

    Walks in the woods – prole
    Hikes through the forest – SWPL

    Believes in personal financial responsibility but makes bad financial choices – prole
    Believes in government oversight of personal financial decisions but makes good financial choices – SWPL

    Believes in ‘buying American’ but shops at Walmart – prole
    Believes in a transnational economy but shops locally – SWPL

    Like


  76. @xplat

    That is more or less the point I was making – or trying to.

    By quantifiable I meant measured in numbers. I agree, not possible.

    But it can be objectively inferred.

    We are not disagreeing.

    Like


  77. Personally I admire most SWPL values. The fact that their egalitarianism is naive and misguided is quaint. I respect the stupid idealism, just because its an attempt at caring for themselves, those around them, and their world.

    Many on this blog fail to embrace their inner SWPL. We all of us want to belong to something bigger than ourselves, and to care for our community. The stuff white people like ethos is a full embrace of civic concern.

    Just because much of the ethos is naive and misguided is no reason to reject it. They just need a little cynicism and understanding of how evolution works in all things blendered into their milkshake.

    Ken Wilber speaks of multiculturalism as an inevitable meme disease that comes with expanding consciousness. He spends book after book explaining how once you learn to see a big picture, you get stuck in the idiocy of multiculturalism for a while. Some people will see an even bigger picture.

    But most people don’t even rise to the level of the particual idiocy that is multicult. So don’t be too proud if you don’t even have goodwill for those outside your own tribe.

    Like


  78. on December 29, 2010 at 5:39 pm Chad Buffington

    “Personally I admire most SWPL values. The fact that their egalitarianism is naive and misguided is quaint. I respect the stupid idealism, just because its an attempt at caring for themselves, those around them, and their world.”

    naive and misguided = dangerous

    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Forced busing, illegal immigration, “compassionate conservativism”, debased lending standards, and a messianic foreign policy are all good examples of good intentions gone horribly wrong.

    Proles have their own problems, of course. In an ideal society each group acts as a check against the other’s more self-destructive instincts.

    Like


  79. My intuition is that for any particular question of quality, a formula could theoretically be arrived at for measuring quality. It’s just that human brains are too stupid to arrive at that formula. Instead we use a holistic unconscious lightning fast process of which we are inherently unaware. It’s a calculation of which we can not know the variables.

    Nonetheless, it’s a calculation that involves variables.

    Well, I’m fine with that.

    Like


  80. Those “SWPL Values” are just a “sanitized” version of Christianity.

    Simple formula: take Jesus out from the equation, and adequate the New Testment to the Politically Correct demands.

    PC = Christian pietism for atheists. Spiritual aspartame.

    Of course the result will be very silly.

    But these values are rejected because of the deleterious effect they promote.

    Whats the point in embracing a suicidal morality? Doing the good in detriment of your own good?

    Like


  81. on December 29, 2010 at 5:47 pm Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

    naive and misguided = dangerous

    http://www.maximizingprogress.org/2009/02/von-mansteins-matrix-clever-lazy.html

    naive + misguided =~ stupid and hardworking

    Like


  82. @explat:

    “My intuition is that for any particular question of quality, a formula could theoretically be arrived at for measuring quality.”

    The problem with this intuition is that the decision to use a particular set of criteria to evaluate “quality” is subjective and arbitrary. One can argue that one standard for evaluation is better than another, but it is not possible to establish that through a mathematical formula–it is a value judgment.

    Like


  83. Chad, a messianic foreign policy would be prole, not swpl. A messianic complex is not multicult. It’s mono-cult, which is prole.

    But I agree that the multicult view is dangerous. Is it more dangerous than monocult? No. Monocult leads to the crusades. Monocult is Islam.

    We need the step AFTER multicult, not the step before.

    Unfortunately far less than 10% of people are cognitively capable of it. Look to Ken Wilber if you want backups for the numbers. Social studies show that there is a progression of mental ability, first framed by Piaget, and that Multicult is way up there, and that most people aren’t at that level of ABILITY.

    Being able to be more than multicult is rare, and probably also holds it’s own particular pathology.

    It’s a cognitive challenge to love your neighbors, feel social responsibility, and to be primarily selfish and realize that survival of the fittest is an inescapable physical law.

    Like


  84. What is a couple–or a woman(I cant imagine a single straight male doing this: a fag,yes,but not straight) who adopts a Haitian/Ethiopian/other African baby? You might think theyre UberSWPL,but people who do this seem,to me,to be deeply submissive to the Zeitgeist,very much seeking approval,which I see as different than the typical SWPL status whoring. They are usually very Christiany,and will at the drop of a hat,blubber about their reverence for dear Dr. King. (And they love Glenn Beck!) Extra points if the baby has HIV. I think simply dividing people up by IQ,as Sailer does,is the best way to figure it all out. I am surely a prole…but I love CR!!!!

    Like


  85. maurice

    SWPL “males” are psychologically, aesthetically, cognitively and culturally female

    Like


  86. Zach

    @explat:

    “My intuition is that for any particular question of quality, a formula could theoretically be arrived at for measuring quality.”

    The problem with this intuition is that the decision to use a particular set of criteria to evaluate “quality” is subjective and arbitrary. One can argue that one standard for evaluation is better than another, but it is not possible to establish that through a mathematical formula–it is a value judgment.

    Yes, that’s tautological, Zach. But still wrong.

    You can’t use a mathematical formula to create a novel mathematical formula. Maths come from a creative space of which we can not create formulas.

    The insight that discovers maths can not be quantified. Does that make the maths that insights creates arbitrary and subjective?

    The insight that discovers quality also can not be quantified. Does that make quality meaningless?

    Quality is an inter-subjective phenonemon, not a subjective phenomenon. There really is meaning to the word blue – it’s not JUST subjective. And there really is meaning to “fine wool”, or “fine literature”, even if there is a slippery sliding overlap of perspectives.

    The maths of perspectivism are complex, but not arbitrary.

    Like


  87. on December 29, 2010 at 6:07 pm Chad Buffington

    “http://www.maximizingprogress.org/2009/02/von-mansteins-matrix-clever-lazy.html

    naive + misguided =~ stupid and hardworking”

    That’s a pretty tenuous connection to my post, but I’ll bite anyhow. Success is about getting paid for what you know, not what you do. I’ve known this for a long time, but I didn’t act on it until I hit the wall in the “hard-working” department. Coincidentally, that’s about the time that I started climbing the management ladder.

    If you’re lazy enough to need to delegate tasks, and you’re clever enough to know how to delegate them, then you’re a bigger contributor than you were when you tried to grind it out all by yourself. I don’t see anything wrong with that.

    Like


  88. Now I know…I’ve got SWPL tastes with a Prole budget.

    Like


  89. on December 29, 2010 at 6:12 pm Chad Buffington

    xsplat wrote:

    “Chad, a messianic foreign policy would be prole, not swpl. A messianic complex is not multicult. It’s mono-cult, which is prole.

    But I agree that the multicult view is dangerous. Is it more dangerous than monocult? No. Monocult leads to the crusades. Monocult is Islam.

    We need the step AFTER multicult, not the step before.”

    Kissinger’s realpolitik attempted to preserve the monocult at home by leveraging the multicult abroad. I think that’s a fine foreign policy, probably the best. The problem with SWPLs is that they want multi abroad _and_ at home. That’s delusional and suicidal.

    Like


  90. @explat:

    Nope, not a tautology. I don’t think you get the point.

    “Quality” can only be broken down into a mathematical equation if you take the appropriate measurement of quality as a given. In some cases, that is relatively straightforward (“fine wool”, to use your example) and in other cases it is not (“a fine sense of humor”).

    You are right that quality perceptions are “inter-subjective,” but that merely explains how people arrive at certain measurements of quality, not what *should” be used as a measurement of quality. Consensus sometimes provides a good indication of quality, but in other times the consensus is loose or arbitrary, and in those cases it does not. In your personal life, do you evaluate clothing, food, etc, based strictly on your perceptions of consensus? I doubt it.

    Lastly, your example about the meaning of blue is irrelevant. The referents of words has nothing to do with quality or value judgment.

    Like


  91. on December 29, 2010 at 6:16 pm Good Luck Chuck

    I’m too refined to be a redneck and too cool to be a yuppie.

    No wonder I don’t really fit in.

    Like


  92. on December 29, 2010 at 6:17 pm brutalfuckingmurder

    There is also a SWPL and prole homosexuality. As a homosexual supremacist I can tell you that most homosexuals were not seen as teenage girls for most of history, but were associated with the criminal underworld, with low-class violent types.

    Like


  93. on December 29, 2010 at 6:19 pm 3rd Culture Wars

    “Being able to be more than multicult is rare, and probably also holds it’s own particular pathology.”

    I probably am in this category. I’m a “3rd culture” person.

    For a while I was split, not belonging in either culture, but now I’ve reconciled myself to being what I like to call “above culture”

    That means I am informed and influenced by more than one culture, but I’m not dependent on either one.

    I’m not for or against either one wholly.

    There’s a stage where you reject the bad from both, and implement the positive from both into your life …. but I’ve evolved even beyond that to the stage where I am now.

    Belonging to neither. Not needing to belong to either. But not resisting anything.

    Hard to explain.

    There are only a few of us out here and we tend to be philosophical types that don’t put much stock in anything of this temporal world – so I get where Wilbur is coming from – he’s a philosopher himself.

    Detachment.

    Nothing impresses, but nothing surprises or jades us either.

    Like


  94. on December 29, 2010 at 6:20 pm Chad Buffington

    There’s an odd irony between SWPL morality and prole morality. The SWPLs are the masters but largely practice what Nietzsche called ‘slave morality’ — a devotion to egalitarianism and fairness. The proles are the slaves but largely practice ‘master morality’ — the egocentric devotion manifested in ‘what is harmful to me is harmful in itself’. I would naively expect that the roles would be reversed.

    Like


  95. on December 29, 2010 at 6:25 pm 3rd Culture Wars

    I would say this:

    “Believes in personal financial responsibility but makes bad financial choices – prole

    Believes in government oversight of personal financial decisions but makes good financial choices – SWPL”

    …should be reversed.

    How many SWPLs are on food stamps? How many proles are?

    Like


  96. Debt – prole
    Debtor nation – SWPL
    Loud chicks – prole
    Strident chicks – SWPL
    Ultimate Fighting – prole
    Ultimate Frisbee – SWPL

    Like


  97. Zach, if you are saying that there is no Platonic ideal existing independently of the observer for what is quality, then I agree.

    If you are saying that the human mind individually and in concert does not form meaningful interpretations of quality, then I disagree.

    What we are talkging about here is perspectivism. You are saying that there is such thing as a perspective that can include all perspectives – that perspective is inescapable. This is a cognitive trap that leads to believing the multicult flatland view that nothing is better than anything else. That clitorectamy is a fine cultural practice.

    I’m saying that a broad view of multiple perspectives can be envisioned in a big picture and that out of that one can choose what is BETTER and WORSE. It’s the step after multicult – integral vision logic.

    Pay attention please to my metaphor about maths. You can not quantify the insight that discovers/creates mathematical formulas. If you could, you’d create artificial intelligence. You premise is that since you can not quantify the SOURCE of rules of measurement, therefore all rules of measurement are arbitrary.

    Just because one brain will come up with different rules of measurement for quality than another brain, does not make the rules arbitrary. These are perspectives, which can be organized into a larger perspective, and overall decisions of quality can be made. You may say that there is no true meaning to a play by shakespeare, and that the shakespeare scholars are all coming up with subjective interpretations that are arbitrary. But they are neither arbitrary nor purely subjective. They are intersubjective, and though not fixed and do change with time, are meaningful.

    If by quantifiable you mean fixed like a platonic ideal, then of course, quality is arbitrary. But that’s just the inconsistency of logic fucking you over – the very rules of thinking are not fixed – an arbitrariness is at the root of language – we are enmeshed irrevocably in perspective. Meaningful perspectives that are intersubjective. Quality is meaningful, and while can’t be pinpointed or defined with universal formula, can be talked about because our brains calculate it.

    In the same way as shakespeare scholars discuss the meanings of his works, formulas can be created to quantify the quality of refried beans. There won’t be one platonic formula for a platonically ideal bean, but there will be a meaningful agreement amongst an array of formulas. Quality is quantifiable, but not platonic.

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  98. You are saying that there is NO such thing as a perspective that can include all perspectives – that perspective is inescapable.

    Like


  99. “Church – prole
    Sunday brunch mimosas – SWPL”

    Nitpicking, but church isn’t necessarily prole. Evangelical Protestant churches are prole. More mainstream churches… SWPL’s avoid them, but they’re the province of the non-douchey middle/upper-middle class (which is largely absent among the under-30 crowd, at least on the coasts.) Those people go to church as much for the networking as to hear about Jesus.

    Oddly enough, here in Dallas, a lot of the under-30 middle/upper-middle class crowd does fall into the non-SWPL (but certainly not prole) category.

    If SWPL men are functionally women, prole women are functionally men.

    Like


  100. I don’t think even SWPL women find SWPL men attractive.

    Like


  101. on December 29, 2010 at 6:43 pm Chad Buffington

    3rd Culture Wars writes:

    “How many SWPLs are on food stamps? How many proles are?”

    That’s, like, my point. Both SWPLs and proles practice one policy but advocate the other. It’s strange.

    Like


  102. Chad Buffington writes:

    “That’s, like, my point. Both SWPLs and proles practice one policy but advocate the other. It’s strange.”

    Yeah, but have you seen the financial choices that SWPLs make? I would hardly call them good financial choices. SWPLs just usually have enough money that they can overcome the bad financial choices.

    Buying a new handbag twice a year is a stupid financial decision whether you’re buying it at Wal-Mart or Neiman Marcus.

    Like


  103. on December 29, 2010 at 6:52 pm Hungry Hungry Hippos

    Myspace – Prole
    Facebook – SWPL

    Though this is rapidly changing as the non-hispanic proles migrate to Facebook, their antics now littering the front page of lamebook. I predict a 3rd social networking site arises and we seem a similar “white flight” from facebook as the hispanic proles arrive.

    Like


  104. SWPL people are better called “whiter people”

    All the ruling elite are whiter people. Members of the elite with Jewish ancestry (as a great many of them are) tend to dye their black curly hair red and straighten it.

    Most whiter people, however, are not elite, they are imitating the elite.

    In the eighteenth and early nineteenth century, the elite aspired to rationalism, and everyone who wanted to be part of the elite dabbled in science and suchlike. Hence “the age of reason” Today, however, the elite reject the scientific method, since it is apt to produce so many shocking politically incorrect results, as exemplified by Darwin’s “descent of man”, which had one horribly politically incorrect clanger after another, cheerfully stomping on issues of race and sex and morality with great big stomping boots. By “science” they mean not actual science, but official science, which is to say, theocracy, global warming, environmentalism, and all that, so all the upwardly mobile, all the whiter people, all the people servilely imitating the elite, despise actual science, and worship official science.

    Like


  105. The lack of masculinity in the higher classes is a fairly recent development, this was not always the case.

    Like


  106. By which process can we come to the conclusion that one cookie is better than the other? By what metric? If someone prefers burnt cookies to “perfectly” cooked ones, how can they possibly be considered wrong? Objective taste is an oxymoron.

    You want a metric? How about healthiness of food? SWPL food is nearly always more conducive to good health than prole food, which is a major part of why SWPLs have longer life expectancy than proles.

    The more burned the food the higher the amount of compounds called polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH) in it. PAHs cause cancer, mutations, and embryonic damage. Humans have evolved a taste for them (to a degree) because they are present in grilled and roasted meat – in particular because the human digestive system is bad at handling raw meat. We also have evolved a taste for sweetness. Until the introduction of agriculture, it used to be rare to be able to eat damaging amounts of sugar. Simply put, prole eating habits are guided to a higher degree by instant gratification without foresight and discipline as is with children given free choice as to what to eat.

    Like


  107. on December 29, 2010 at 7:05 pm Chad Buffington

    Royal wrote:

    “Yeah, but have you seen the financial choices that SWPLs make? I would hardly call them good financial choices. SWPLs just usually have enough money that they can overcome the bad financial choices.

    Buying a new handbag twice a year is a stupid financial decision whether you’re buying it at Wal-Mart or Neiman Marcus.”

    That’s a fair criticism. I remember the NYTimes author who divorced his wife to marry some Argentinian trophy and found himself in serious financial difficulty due to her lavish spending habits, which he slavishly enabled.

    I’m not suggesting that it’s a perfect dichotomy by any means, but, if I had to wager, I’d say that SWPLs tend to manage their money with a greater future-orientation than proles do.

    Like


  108. xplat,

    “If you are saying that the human mind individually and in concert does not form meaningful interpretations of quality, then I disagree.”

    What I’m saying is pretty straightforward: Perceptions of quality are meaningful, but what constitutes quality is contested.

    It’s hard for me to see how all this talk of “integrating different rules of measurement” to assess quality is different from assessing based on consensus, which I’ve already addressed. Also, it’s not clear to me how this integration actually works in real life… how much weight should be given to each person’s rules of measurement? Are they all equally valid? Tricky value judgments still need to be here, and so while I do not deny that it is possible to have a “perspective that [attempts] to include all perspectives”, I doubt that any two people will have the same such perception.

    Please note that I haven’t said anything about cultural relativism, which you seem to want to to talk about badly. You can still argue that one cultural practice is better than another using reason and logic.

    Like


  109. on December 29, 2010 at 7:07 pm brutalfuckingmurder

    As a homosexual supremacist I have to object to the inclusion of the whole “gay” thing under SWPL. It’s true that the gay movement is SWPL, but homosexual behavior as such is not. I am an Ernst Roehm style homo and there is a kind of homo that is violent and prole still now.

    Like


  110. “As a homosexual supremacist I have to object to the inclusion of the whole “gay” thing under SWPL”

    Gays are whiter people, SWPL. Actual male homosexuals go after women and small boys. Homosexual whiter people pair up, live together, have sex with each other, then go after women and small boys as a team

    So gays are SWPL, homos are proles.

    Lesbian whiter people, however, screw pretty much anything.

    Like


  111. clark griswold: prole
    todd and margot: SWPL
    cousin eddie: ultra prole

    Like


  112. Rant Casey – BR
    “You see… Heavy Metal is sometimes a pretty ellaborated genre in technical terms – and it requires a big amount of work – but its a very prole kind of music [IMO]. ”

    Metal is not prole anymore. In the 1980s, I would have agreed with you. Take a look at this clip from a Venom concert in the early 80s, from 0:45 to 1:50: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYARTiO_U7w The fans were genuine working class fans whose fathers worked in steel mills and drove forklifts. At the time, attending a metal show was potentially quite dangerous. It wasn’t uncommon for a person to get stabbed, and dressing in the style of the wrong crowd could potentially cause you to get your ass kicked.

    None of that is the case anymore. I’m a huge metal fan, and I can honestly say that I have never sensed the slightest danger when attending any of the numerous shows I’ve been to in the past ten years, regardless of whether it’s black metal, death metal, power metal, or thrash. I’ve never seen metal fans behave like the fans in the video I linked to — not that the behavior depicted is atrocious, but it’s WILD. Modern metal fans are not wild in the way that the blue collar fans of old were. They’re more nerdy about their music, but that sense of animalism is gone.

    Metal’s current fan based is composed mainly of nerds, ranging from D&D dorks to science majors to hipsters. The fanbase has a definite aspergersy tendency these days (myself included, although I’ve learned how to keep most of them in check), listening almost exclusively to metal (or maybe also the ambient, noise, neo-folk post-rock) and obsessively categorizing and sorting their collection.

    Proles no longer listen to metal, with the exception of one sub-genre: nu-metal. Proles like Slipknot, Mudvayne, Korn, Limp Bizkut, Lincoln Park, Papa Roach. Most “true metal” fans — myself included — would not be ashamed to have a friend find a single song by one of these bands in our music collection. Those bands are considered white trash music. Modern metal fans prefer black metal, death metal, power metal, old school thrash, and folk metal, and are very strict conception of which bands are actually true to their craft.

    Of course, there is ultra-SWPL metal, like Agalloch, which has black metal roots but plentiful post-rock, folk, and classical influences. NPR even gave Agalloch their seal of approval. I guess I’d be a little bit less SWPL, preferring bands like Dissection or Immortal who “keep it real” over either pretentious NPR-approved black metal bands like Agalloch or bastardized pseudo-black metal like Dimmu Borgir (which bears some resemblance to nu-metal).

    (In all fairness Agalloch are quite talented, but aren’t really my thing.)

    Like


  113. Correcting myself:

    “Humans have evolved a taste for them (to a degree) because they are present in grilled and roasted meat – in particular because the human digestive system is bad at handling raw meat.”

    PAHs are an entire category of compounds and it is inaccurate to say that humans should “have evolved a taste for them”. It is, however, accurate to say that they tend to be found in food prepared under high temperatures. Such foods tend to be appealing to humans. Aromaticity in organic chemistry refers to exceptionally high stability of some compounds made up of rings of atoms that has nothing in itself to do with taste or smell.

    Like


  114. I wrote:
    “Most “true metal” fans — myself included — would not be ashamed to have a friend find a single song by one of these bands in our music collection”

    Sorry, I didn’t edit that comment very well. I meant that they WOULD be ashamed.

    Like


  115. on December 29, 2010 at 7:59 pm Obstinance Works

    Hah. I’m more of a racist prole. Anything to piss off the establishment.

    Like


  116. @ Editor

    Not to be a kill joy R, but its NY Times not NYBTimes… that spelling error is really boring me, and also where’s WSJ, Time Magazine, and The Economist (All Italicized)?

    Like


  117. Most of the folks I know, including myself, fall into the prole category, regardless of income and social class. I can see where the SWPL are coming from where it comes to beer and whiskey though. Microbrews and single malt are the only way to fly. Otherwise SWPL folks are full of shit

    Like


  118. Proles are those who don’t know better but should. SWPLs are those who should know better but don’t.

    Like


  119. This pretty much encapsulates the difference in class tastes; proles have an underdeveloped aesthetic that can only appreciate the bluntness of flash and tackiness, much like how an infant is drawn to bright primary colors. SWPLs have a mature aesthetic that gravitates to understatement, irony, and “hidden meanings”.

    Yes exactly. I first realized I wasn’t born with the SWPL/suburbanite sensibility when I hated Memento and everyone I knew thought it was the greatest movie ever made. Same thing with Requiem for a Dream, hell anything by guys like Darren Aronofsky.

    Like


  120. on December 29, 2010 at 8:15 pm Obstinance Works

    Falling off ski lifts and getting stuck 8 hours in planes: Prole or SWPL?

    Like


  121. on December 29, 2010 at 8:16 pm Obstinance Works

    Oh yeah: Getting molested at the airport by security?

    Like


  122. “this is great and all, but about that pink-haired emo chick porn…”

    Speaking of which, where can I get me some of that?

    Like


  123. Well Zach, if we are going to talk about objectifying intersubjective interpretations of quality, rather than consider a mere scatterplot, we’d also have to assess the reliability of each contributor to the plot.

    Some peoples mental framework is both broader in scope of facts, and more integrated in holding those facts in a non contradictory whole. Such peoples opinion are given greater weight. While experts may disagree, we value their opinion above the proles for good reason.

    So in this mathematical model, again, you don’t get one formula, but must trust in the individual data points to not be completely arbitrary, and be able to weigh the value of each data point. What you get is a mathematical model of quality, in the form of a weighted scatter plot, using individuals interpretations as data points.

    From that broad picture you can then work out the decisions that are involved in creating the initial datapoints. Figure out what constitutes a quality bean. You’ll get a set of overlapping criteria and ranges with sweet spot values.

    Like


  124. on December 29, 2010 at 8:20 pm Obstinance Works

    xsplat- You are saying that there is NO such thing as a perspective that can include all perspectives – that perspective is inescapable.People are trained sheep. Schopenhauer agrees.

    Like


  125. on December 29, 2010 at 8:21 pm Obstinance Works

    xsplat- You are saying that there is NO such thing as a perspective that can include all perspectives – that perspective is inescapable.

    People are trained sheep. Schopenhauer agrees.

    Like


  126. @PA

    “PA
    Menthol – lesser prole
    Generic 100s – Prole
    Name-brand regulars – SWPL
    Clove – ultra SWPL”

    Interesting. SWPL men smoke cigars tho. Only kiddies smoke cloves, which are being banned. They moved onto shisha and davidoff.

    Like


  127. Rape – prol
    Rape Troll – SWPL

    Like


  128. Prole, what a delightfully woody word. Not like those dreadful tinny words.

    Like


  129. ttp://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bs-ed-school-choice-20101229,0,4543873.story

    Just had to drop this in, since some of the threads are on the decline of the West.

    This editorial is beyond parody.

    Freedom is tyranny!

    You couldn’t make this up.

    I suspect this fellow is not a prole.

    Like


  130. on December 29, 2010 at 8:56 pm anonymouses anonymous

    I find myself having parts prole and parts swpl. As I move up the financial chain, I am exposed to more and more swpl things. However, I constantly find myself ostracized by the swpls around me because my prole upbringing prefers the simplicity of things rather the subtleties of nuances.

    I prefer single malt scotch and port wine. I like an angel on the tree and simple ornaments. NFl over world cup soccer. F150 and motorcycles, but like Ferrarris.

    I don’t abandon my prole pleasures but add swpl enjoyments. Some things swpl I reject, like Rockstar and A&F.

    Like


  131. Fuji skin tastes much better. Red delicious are disgusting and the skin is bitter.

    Like


  132. Paleo? blech..read 80/10/10, visit 30bananasaday and stop stinking up the room.

    Like


  133. Gramps,

    Scratch a liberal and you find a fascist

    Like


  134. on December 29, 2010 at 9:20 pm 3rd Culture Wars

    Chad Buffington
    3rd Culture Wars writes:

    “How many SWPLs are on food stamps? How many proles are?”

    That’s, like, my point. Both SWPLs and proles practice one policy but advocate the other. It’s strange.

    …….well I don’t think proles advocate for no government help, do they? I’ve never heard of anyone on food stamps or unemployment advocate for the abolishment of either.

    Xsplat, I think I have a perspective that contains all perspectives, while being attached to none of them.

    Like


  135. It has been said that the virulence of Victorian Morality was based largely on the extreme vulnerability of the Middle Class in that era to losing their status and free-falling to the level of the working-poor. Or worse. For a first offense against propriety.
    In Victorian times, middle class insecurity was fueled by the obvious hopelessness of the urban poor. It was really frightening for a middle-class person in that era to imagine having to move to a rat-hole in the East End – which was just one career loss away for many of them.
    Any connection between our current widespread economic insecurities and the fervor of SWPLism… maybe.

    Like


  136. What’s a prole and what’s a SWPL?

    BTW, I used to be called p00n.

    Like


  137. PA recently shared with me what his first name is.

    It is a Polish name, spelled Wojpiegh.

    This is pronounced as ‘Warpig’.

    That is why, when he discovered the game community, he first got excited that the term ‘Warpig’ is used in the game vocabulary.

    What is funny is that he still does not know what a ‘Warpig’ is : a woman who is ugly (but still rejects an omega like PA).

    PA is a Pole Prole. That rhymes.

    Wojpiegh the Pole Prole……………

    Like


  138. Maria,

    Have you ever played the card game, “poker?”

    Like


  139. This Maria posts under different names on every thread, and on the thread he points to it’s all just juvenile hate.

    I want to do s study of trolls. What motivates them? What makes them do it? Where do they live?

    Inquiring minds want to know.

    Like


  140. […] at the Chateau today they posted a funny and interesting take on another article referencing Half Sigma and his […]

    Like


  141. The loser on that thread who posted here appears to reinforce my image of haters.

    – The right-wing, conspiracy-nut racist types seem to really have a hate-on for Game. WTF? I’m guessing they’re woman-less, loser-basement dwellers, gusy so low on the social totem pole they need to believe there’s someone – anyone – lower than they are. Blacks. PUAs. Anyone.

    Maybe the equivalent of the sexless failures that blow shit up in the Muslim world?

    These losers seem to all gravitate to either SWPLism (manginas) or White Nationalist/Racial/Economic Conspiracy groups.

    Further adds evidence to my suspicion that sexlessness drives men to dangerous extremes.

    Like


  142. If Roissy wanted to elucidate the frame control, he prolly couldn’t have elected a better theme.

    Seems to me that a great majority of posters got p0wned here by being locked into a false and limited dichotomy.

    Like


  143. @Gorby

    – The right-wing

    Another example of framing. The statist, collectivist totalitarians (the last on a somewhat sliding scale in timeline sense) call themselves “left”, and thus everyone else is “right”.

    They readily conflate the conservatives with Taliban, but at the same time associate with radical Islamists, having affinity to their totalitarian worldview.

    They safely put Nazis and Fascist to the right, regardless that both these movements were their ideological brethren–totalitarian and collectivist. They just were not on the same place on the internationalst/nationalist axis.

    The actual political landscape is spherical.

    Like


  144. Now all we need is for someone to put all of these comparisons into question form, come up with some subclasses of proles and swpls and blammo! Another variation on the Meyers-Briggs test!

    Come on, somebody do it. I need more stupid letters like INTP to put on my online dating beta profile.

    Like


  145. prole – Calvin peeing on something
    SWPL – Stick-figure happy family stickers

    http://www.tunacrab.com/?p=70

    Like


  146. @The_King

    NYBTimes – the B is for Beta. Not Bobo.

    Like


  147. on December 29, 2010 at 11:27 pm brutalfuckingmurder

    What about tattoos?

    Like


  148. on wine…you said….

    Zinfandel – high prole
    Pinot noir – SWPL

    I’d like to clarify…

    White Zinfandel – Prole

    Only proles drink rose wines…

    Like


  149. The step beyond multi-cult and mono-cult is progressive evolutionary misanthropy and the community of the Great Ones—elite higher men or “supermen”, who embody the ancient Greek ideals of higher mind-body-spirit to such an extent that they deserve to be considered a superior post-human species.

    THAT is what I want—a better people encouraged/enabled to rise into their rightful place, simultaneous with the taking out of the billions of lowly humanoid trash that have burdened, fettered and poisoned the world we live in. I want people of real quality, who are on a course for real evolutionary progress, to populate this Earth…and fuck the rest. I’m sick of higher man being dragged down or held down by the billions of hairless lower ape-men who have obviously already reached the apex of their evolutionary potential. SWPLs, proles…they’re all just a bunch of talking hairless monkeymen who are past their prime and are outmoded fetters now. Upward evolutionary advancement threatens them, because somewhere deep inside they know they couldn’t cut the mustard if the scales measure genuine quality and progress. That’s the ‘why’ behind egalitarianism, and that is why egalitarian BS will always be popular so long as the contemporary baser strains of Homo Sapiens continue to overpopulate this planet, while the Great Ones are very rare. I say, if the dog will no longer hunt— if they no longer express the best of the human spirit and the characteristic distinctions that put Man at the top of Life’s Food Chain—then put them out of our world, or put them out of their (and our) misery. Monkeys belong in the wild or in a zoo…not in our society!
    So when the distinction between the masses of man and monkeys is a slim as it has become currently, then we who still value and embody the higher things and upward path should not regard them as our kin anymore. The sanest thing to do is for the Great Ones to utterly divorce themselves from lower man, at least in the secret chambers of our souls and minds.

    Admitting this publicly at this time would probably not be an exercise of good judgment on the part of most Great Ones or aspiring Great Ones today. Instead, it is wiser to continue the path of self-improvement and mastery of your world without alerting the masses. During that process, you may find others who are also taking the upward path and who embody higher ideals. Befriend and colloborate with such rare individuals…become an embryonic network and community of Great Ones together with them. What is the goal? Hegemony and the shaping in accordance of your will (terraforming) of the environment in which you live. It’s going to be our world, or it will be the monkeymen’s world…all depends on whether WE set the standards, whether WE make the decisions, and whether WE act on them to make this OUR world. You can see where we’re heading, if we don’t.

    The thing about truly elite people is that they are quite varied individually. They are usually INTERESTING people. They are personally distinguished from the flocks of sheeple. People tend to focus on the symptoms of their successes, without looking deeper to see a superior form of life exists in their very essence. Money doesn’t make an elite man! That same money, in the hands of one of the sheeple (SWPLs or proles), would reveal the profound difference in the essence of the elite man from the lower man. The same can be said for “education”—you’ll see the sheeple squander it even if it is of the highest quality, but you’ll see an elite man go out of his way to seek out the education he needs and will pursue with passion the path he must to make his unique contribution to life.

    Don’t sell yourselves short on this blog. Don’t miss the forest because you got too caught up staring at trees. If you think the stuff discussed in this blog is (or should be) just about picking up women, you’re thinking like a monkeyman. Look deeper, and dare to go to the underlying essence of “Game”. Are your standards and horizons too low…not only with women, but in almost every important aspect of your life? Who’s really calling the shots in your life (no bullshit), and why is that so? What are the beliefs that are limiting you from your maximum potential, and who do those self-limiting beliefs benefit?
    Are you truly living if you settle for an existence determined according to the will of others, at the mercy of others, tossed to and fro and off the cliff by others when you are no longer of enough use for others? For crissakes, if you absolutely must follow someone else’s tune, at least let them be someone of superior quality, who actually gives a shit about you and enables/encourages you to be YOUR BEST. At least, strive for an agenda that INCLUDES your life’s dreams and your best interests…that could still be considered a fair collaboration and “social contract” between the masters, apprentices and servants.

    Like


  150. Prole: Goes camping for the hell of it

    SWPL:Will spend upwards of hundreds of dollars at someplace like REI on clotes and “gear” just for a fucking day trip to a national park.

    Like


  151. Has this been addressed elsewhere — why has the Semitism post been pulled? Was it out of the author’s timidity at offending the powers that be?

    If so, what a dismally and quintessentially beta thing to do.

    Like


  152. going bowling does not have to be prole. if it is done in the spirit of the big lebowski, it’s extremely SWPL

    Like


  153. prole – Calvin peeing on something
    SWPL – Stick-figure happy family stickers

    correction, happy family stickers are usually…at least in dc beltway…on SUV’s with virginia tags (and gasp…no Obama sticker, sometimes even a Palin sticker). Therefore the proper ratio is:
    drop dead dreg prole – Calvin peeing on something
    greater prole – Stick-figure happy family stickers
    swpl – My Dog is Smarter Than Your Honor Student stickers
    greater swpl to basically insane – 30 bumperstickers illuminating the car owners moral superiority thanks to their hatred of hate and George W. Bush.

    What about tattoos?

    this was covered on the eponymous website…basically:
    prole – mom, military, patriotic
    swpl – ironic gay shit.

    Like


  154. rescued from moderation purgatory:

    Its not about “vanilla or chocolate ice cream”. Its about “industrial ice cream” versus “industrial ice cream Versus artisanal swiss special recipe ice cream” that dont taste like an overdose of glicosis syrup.

    I disagree. The host hits on it…the status whore preening of it all.

    Proles can like nice things too. They can also appreciate cheap beer because they aren’t rich enough to blow $8 on a sixpack.

    The real difference is that proles don’t think that shopping at Whole Foods makes them a better person. SWPL’s think that they enjoy sushi on a much higher level than Sarah Palin ever could.

    Like


  155. ethnocentric = prole
    self hating = SWPL

    traditionalist = prole
    first-wave feminist = high prole
    second or third wave feminist = SWPL

    Like


  156. Moderation purgatory?

    Funny.

    Like


  157. IQ 85 to 105 – prole
    IQ 106-120 – SPWL

    Like


  158. Gorbachev says a lot of good things about feminism, usually right on point, but oddly when it comes to race you sound like every other anti-white liberal I’ve ever heard. Cut the crap.

    – The right-wing, conspiracy-nut racist types seem to really have a hate-on for Game. WTF? I’m guessing they’re woman-less, loser-basement dwellers, guys so low on the social totem pole they need to believe there’s someone – anyone – lower than they are.

    What the hell is this shit? It sounds like shaming language right out the female handbook. If you have a problem with white nationalists and their methods, then by all means criticize them, but I don’t think that’s it. What really bothers you is that they’re pro-white at all.

    They have a problem with game because some of them are ridiculous conservatives and also still pedestalizing and white knighting, ya know, like a lot of uninformed men left, right and center. Like you did in the past correct? That’s a far cry from being loser-basement dwellers whatever.

    Like


  159. What’s up with the dudes from puahate trying to nail Krauser on some concocted rape allegation? I’ve seen them post the same thing on multiple blogs.

    Like


  160. @Exeter,

    Come on. You’ve seen me post before. I’m more than a bit of a blowhard at times. I like to get riled up – it gets the juices going. Most of it is harmless. You’ve got to chill out.

    What the hell is this shit? It sounds like shaming language right out the female handbook.

    You got it. I wanted to see what sort of right-wing WN nutcases I could scare up. Blame me. I was bored.

    If you have a problem with white nationalists and their methods, then by all means criticize them, but I don’t think that’s it. What really bothers you is that they’re pro-white at all.

    Wrong on that point. Pro-white makes me comfortable. I’m a white guy and I know my own interests. It’s anti-(insert object here) that makes me annoyed.

    I have no interest in defending myself, because to you I’m just an internet cipher; I’ll just defend my views when it’s relevant.

    But to give you some perspective on why I say the shit I do, I throw this out:

    Feminism:

    My suspicion and dislike for rabid feminism is based on reasoned positions and my observations and experience with female and male behavior in real life, with observations of how society and social orders actually function (and not on Shoulds). And also my initial exposure to feminism as a contemptible mangina while in college.

    Dating:

    Okay, from a traditional standpoint, I have little to be proud of. What can I say? Haters can fuck off.
    On the other hand, from a liberal standpoint, I’ve rarely ever lied to women. I just stopped believing the pretty lies long ago. Once again, haters can fuck off.

    Race:

    My acknowledgment of racial realities is based on obvious and more-or-less undeniable biology (having a science background in the field helps), not an a-priori dislike for any particular group.
    Hence my interest in 1) not allowing more uncontrolled hispanic immigration as social priority #1, so that the problem doesn’t get any worse than it is, and 2) my acceptance that those American proles and blacks and black proles we do have we’ll have to deal with as fellow citizens whether we want to or not. We’re stuck with it and unless we want extermination camps, we need to be progressive in the right way about the issue. It’s my opinion we can only do this constructively by acknowledging reality- including the frankly now-undeniable realities of race – and then dealing with it properly. American was never pure white or WASP or whatever, it isn’t now, and can’t be. That’s a very painful fact for some, but it’s also absolutely unavoidable, and we have to deal with it and move forward responsibly. One thing we COULD do in our very strong collective interests would be to ban, with immediate effect, the immigration of Muslims, absolutely. And begin encouraging those we have here to leave. Most Americans can’t begin to understand the kind of terrifyingly existential threat Islam truly represents to the West.

    White America:

    My comments about whites are just admissions that our own culture is often total shit. If we’re going to be honest, we have to be honest about ourselves. I’ve been around, so when I come back, the typical white (and black, for that matter) American arrogance appalls me.
    I don’t worship Asia, hardly, but I’ll say this: we are not the bees’ knees, and any sense of “superiority” we maintain, racial or cultural, is often unfounded. Asians can be corrupt and inefficient, but they can also do shit like build a many-stop subway line through the heart of Seoul in a couple of years and get the damned thing done. It makes me weep to come back and see how retarded we are about much of what we do. We could learn from shit like that.
    Every single time I go to Asia, I come back humbled by just how damned impressive these people are in ways we could do well to emulate- and how absolutely like us they also are. And how they also fail at things that we do well.
    It gives me some perspective on America and whites as some kind of “specially destined” or skilled people. Anyone who travels often gets this impression. I see this endless racial conflict for what it is: A debilitating distraction.

    Black America:

    When I go to Africa, I marvel at how impressive the non-slave-descended Africans often are when compared to the ugliness, dysfunctionality and trashiness of black American / Caribbean cultures. With half the resources black Americans get, there are countries in sub-Saharan Africa which could build empires and do impressive things. Which is even more humiliating to black America. This gives me some limited hope that our own populations, with crime and poverty, can be somehow redeemed.

    Jews:

    My dislike of anti-semites comes from exposure to both real-life Jews to a degree not usually afforded to people from my background and the crushing of stereotypes I experienced. And also exposure to the bizarre fantasies and illusions of the anti-semite sector, which are often not based on carefully observed facts or careful reasoning.

    Islam:

    My more or less visceral hatred of Islam comes from having learned more about it than most Muslims have, or ever will, and having traveled in the Arab world relatively widely and seen what it’s actually like and how people actually think. And viewed it from an originally neutral perspective.

    Other people I know have experienced the same effect: When being exposed to, say, Japan, they lose their original impressions, either good or bad, and come to respect the culture for its intrinsic merits on its own terms.

    On the other hand, any time spent in a Muslim country usually has outsiders progressively losing respect for Islam as a religion and becoming alarmed and worried for their own future in a country with Muslims in it. The effect is not progressive, but entirely negative. For me, again, this is based on reason and experience. I learn and see.

    THE POINT

    I’ve reasoned my way into most of my opinions. I’ve seen little living evidence and lots of counter-evidence for the conspiratoriality of Jews. I’ve seen hard and manifold evidence of the violent, savage nature of Islam in its purest forms. Where others see absolutes in Black crime and IQ, I just see statistics, and means for addressing them. Where still others see boys failing because they don’t try hard enough, I see a social order stacked hard against them by an increasingly misandrist society. Where some see a rape culture, I see little to no evidence for it – quite the opposite, in fact. Many feminists also agree on this point, I might add.

    When I hear American patriots going on about the obvious racial inferiority of Mestizo and Indian Latin Americans, I’ve also seen stupendous ancient cities in jungles, brilliant artwork with not a single White man in evidence, astronomical observatories and mathematics and writing and literature, as well as brutal Hispanic overlords mimicking civil society while they stultify and crush the ambitions of otherwise not-dumb people. Which makes me think that claims of terrible intellectual inferiority of Amerindians might – might – be somewhat exaggerated and culture and history have been too easily discounted as causes.

    I still don’t want them all moving here. Genetics or environment, they don’t belong here in large numbers. But that’s not the point. There’s a limit to the rabid racism I can stomach before it just all gets too irrational for my tastes.

    I try to maintain perspective. That’s all.

    They have a problem with game because some of them are ridiculous conservatives and also still pedestalizing and white knighting, ya know, like a lot of uninformed men left, right and center. Like you did in the past correct? That’s a far cry from being loser-basement dwellers whatever.

    As far as that was concerned, I was just gratuitously insulting the bastards to see if I could get them to come out foaming at the mouth. It sometimes works.

    Like


  161. on December 30, 2010 at 3:53 am anonymouses anonymous

    3rd Culture made a comment that he has never heard anyone on unemployment complaining.

    I was on unemployment. I had $9000 in benefits for 6 months. Sounds like a lot for not working. Except, I paid $100k over years into it. I would rather had the $100k. I could start my own company with that instead of eating ramen noodles for 6 months.

    Like


  162. Father – Prole
    Mother – SWPL

    Certainly applies to my family, but I don’t know how many others.

    Like


  163. “So what does that make us: self-hating members of a privileged class?”

    In what sense are we privileged?

    We’re white because our ancestors got kicked to the curb 50-100K years ago and history looks to be gradually repeating itself today if my local prole gene pool is any indication – my local SWPL gene pool being relatively barren.

    There is a very small privileged minority that happens to still be largely white, but the average white person, especially the male, is now at a disadvantage.

    It may well be that that privileged elite actively propagates the myth of white privilege to keep that average male in his place, short circuiting the social mobility the was the key to the vitality of western civilization, especially the American version.

    Like


  164. “IQ 85 to 105 – prole
    IQ 106-120 – SPWL”

    Perceived IQ:

    100 – prole
    140 – SWPL

    Like


  165. “A conservative SWPL is what’s known as a “benefactor”. Or an engineer.”

    S’funny, both the engineers that I know are ardent race-mixers/miscegenaters. Anybody else notice this trend of late? The conservatives are now the liberals, letting their hair down, becoming all radical and shit like that. Maybe it’s for social acceptance purposes or maybe it’s just good ol’ white guilt I haven’t quite figured but these two blokes are both highly-degreed (one has two Ph.Ds), not bad looking, own their own international businesses and go for exclusively black women. Both are loaded too. The one chap actually keeps a young Congolese chick (by “keep” I mean supports her, pays for her apartment, etc) in Beijing of all places. Heh heh he’s based in South Africa where there’s a dearth of duskies but he flies to Beijing every two months to the Congoid who’s probably got a few Chinamen on the side anyway.

    Many SWPLs are actually Proles in disguise.

    Like


  166. @Black Rebel

    “Father – Prole
    Mother – SWPL

    Certainly applies to my family, but I don’t know how many others.”

    No. It is actually like this.

    Father/Mother/Dad/Mom – Prole
    Mommy/Daddy – SWPL

    Here’s more.

    Walmart / TJ MAX / A&F – Prole
    Target / Salvation Army / Lacoste – SWPL

    None or public education – Prole
    Private elite education starting at competitive nursing school and ends with private ivies or professional schools – SWPL

    Bad/minority neighborhoods – Prole
    Sub-urban white neighborhoods – SWPL

    Like


  167. Wake up white man.

    Like


  168. “There is also a SWPL and prole homosexuality. As a homosexual supremacist I can tell you that most homosexuals were not seen as teenage girls for most of history, but were associated with the criminal underworld, with low-class violent types.”

    The late British artist Francis Bacon’s ex-b/fs come to mind.

    Like


  169. Gorbachev,

    Excellent post. I’m a fanatical right-winger, but the race-baiting stuff gives White nationalists a really bad name. We can be proud of ourselves without denigrating other peoples.

    I would make one further point, that Slavery had a catastrophic impact on traditional family bonds, and that had a huge role in the dysfunction of
    many African American families: Up to ten
    repeating generations of single mothers, and
    long-vanished fathers will fuck up any social
    group. I think we’re on the same path, just several generations behind. Reckon the cure is to abolish long-term welfare payments

    Like


  170. Cyning makes a good point. This reminds of the insight of other commenters at Mangan’s and AltRight: most HBDers don’t care much about ideology, they’re just classist snobs. If they had to choose between
    A: living among annoyingly liberal, high-IQ, higher-middle-class East Asian, Indian immigrants and SWPLs
    B: living among right-wing, race realist, lower-middle-class Christian white proles of average intelligence,
    they would all choose A.
    HBDers often fantasize about a white ethnostate. Well, it already exists; it’s called West Virginia. But we don’t see many HBDers moving there to find solidarity among their fellow white men, do we?

    I know this is somewhat off-topic but I guess it’d benefit us to attack snobbery, classism and hypocrisy, even if it comes from right-wing HBDers instead of SWPLs.

    Like


  171. Would communism be Prole or extreme SWPL?

    On a more important note, wouldn’t someone with game harvest copious amounts of pussy in a communist nation?

    Like


  172. OT – you must see this: Jezebel.com has stumbled upon Roosh’s site.

    http://jezebel.com/5720480/american+woman-hater-possibly-the-worst-person-weve-encountered#comments

    The comments are hilarious, as expected.

    Like


  173. I did not finish to read with attention your huge list.

    So, everything should be or prole or SWPL?

    It seems another stupid post like the ones cats s dogs

    Christmas tree prole or communist new yorker brats?

    Yes sure.

    Christmas tree with brand new balls? Beta.

    Christmas tree with all pending used condoms? Alpha.

    Christmas tree covered in sperm simulating snow? Uber alpha.

    Like


  174. I’m new to the term SWPL. haha, now I know I’m an Asian SWPL. hehe!! I do have a question. Are there two categories for SWPL. One being old money SWPL and the other Nouveau Riche SWPL ( in my definition, SWPL wannebees). if we can separate SWPL into two categories I would say that I have a distaste on the verge of vomiting for the Nouveau Riche….especially in the Asian community. Their designer handbags/clothing ..LV, Prada, Faragamo, Fendi…..sooooooo over the top and as a full package sooooo tasteless. Old money is about quality not FAD and labels. Just can’t stand the flaunting and the overt display of wealth of those Nouveau riche. Hate to say it, but particularly those from China. Pleeease…less is more!!

    Like


  175. For some reason I get a feeling
    Gorbachev
    is part of the Chateau. hmmmm
    I sense , feel and know things…..mawwwhhhhh!!

    Like


  176. Cottage: SWPL
    Winnebago: Prole

    Starbucks: SWPL
    Folgers: Prole

    Cat: SWPL
    Dog: Prole

    Charles Krauthammer: SWPL
    Rush Limbaugh: Prole

    Like


  177. Would communism be Prole or extreme SWPL?

    Communism = prole
    Left Liberal Third Way Socialism = SWPL

    At least in Brazil I can observe that.

    The hard line communists are often heavy bearded rude proles. Stalinists. Hate homos, and hate “fiesty left” SWPLs just as much as they hate capitalists – in fact they see no real diference.

    They want revolution and blood.

    Now the “fiesty left” want capitalism fueled with entitlements. Some call themselves socialists, but wont abdicate consummerism and theyr tutti-frutti bubble worldview.

    They want “world peace”, “social justice”, and Live 8.

    I supose the second type is more common in America. We have quite a few of the first type in South America.

    Like


  178. DVD Porn: Prole (hand me downs)
    Online Porn: SWPL

    Like


  179. I supose proles already know how to operate computers in such a basic level, Paul.

    Like


  180. Please, whatever you do, don’t get confused with a vulgar association between IQ and class.

    Idiocracy permeates throughout the classes. Show me one SWPL genius and I’ll show you 100 brain-dead sheeplike trend-follower unoriginal SWPLs. My God, don’t confuse a piece of paper for real intelligence. THEY PAID MONEY FOR THAT PIECE OF PAPER (or someone paid)! Don’t be fooled by the outer appearances and phony status credentials that most SWPLs rely on. Any prole —with money— could create the very same illusions if they so desired. If they can buy it, it doesn’t make an ostensible distinction real.
    Now, if they couldn’t buy it even if they had a billion dollars, then you are on track to discover real distinctions worth noting.

    Like


  181. What about a genuine interest in classical music and Renaisance and baroque art as opposed to world music and modern art trash. The latter is swpl but the former surely isn’t prole?

    Like


  182. Alex & VG,

    Spot on. One can generalize to a degree, but once one goes beyond surface, the story is more complex.

    That being said, the SWPLs are relatively homogenous, because of their need for confirmation of conformity with their peers.

    There is no equivalent in the “proles” pool. They are a diverse bunch.

    Like


  183. @Joe

    PA recently shared with me what his first name is.

    It is a Polish name, spelled Wojpiegh.

    This is pronounced as ‘Warpig’.

    Somehow, that does not mesh with my notion of Polish names.

    I’d bet that it is Wojtiech, pronounced Voytyekh or Voytek. Even Wojpiegh would not be pronounced as ‘Warpig’. You pulling our leg, Joe? Pole-hater much?

    Like


  184. In my native language, we make a strong distinction between someone who is schooled rather than educated (ie. raised with manners, taught to show character in uncomfortable situations, class). This remains the lens with which I view people in general. Money, schooling and material items are independent of classy, modest behavior.

    Would SWLP be equivalent to this?

    Like


  185. Porn with anal penetration and loud, fake moaning from the girls – prole
    Regular sex porn with pink-haired emo girls squeaking like mice – SWPL

    I always figured that Faye Reagan was a SWPL type in training, she’s got that American Apparel thing going, the red hair, banging body, squeaky voice, etc.

    Like


  186. @ what

    I would say that I have a distaste on the verge of vomiting for the Nouveau Riche….especially in the Asian community. Their designer handbags/clothing ..LV, Prada, Faragamo, Fendi…..sooooooo over the top and as a full package sooooo tasteless. Old money is about quality not FAD and labels. Just can’t stand the flaunting and the overt display of wealth of those Nouveau riche. Hate to say it, but particularly those from China.

    It is the status posturing and need for social validation. Herd mentality. Don’t worry, won’t be long before people will have to get down to more fundamental, existential patterns and all this label glitz will become meaningless, even in their minds.

    @ what

    For some reason I get a feeling Gorbachev is part of the Chateau. hmmmm I sense , feel and know things…..mawwwhhhhh!!

    We all are. Without commenters, the Chateau would be a bit of a Zen concept–what is the sound of one hand clapping?

    But if you mean that he produces some of the articles, I think your feelings and … whatever you use for sensing… maybe your snout? … may deceive you.

    Like


  187. @Catherine
    No. They are makebelieve people.

    Like


  188. @ The King

    I actually meant in how they are not the terms. My dad is a fairly set in his ways guy with two dogs, likes fishing and beer, the outdoors and goes to the gym. My mom is a trend-hopping brand whore who drinks merlot and does yoga.

    And more than a few people I know have parents who show the exact same dynamic. I attribute it to men having fairly minimalist tastes and women tending to always be on the lookout for the ‘hot new trend’.

    Like


  189. @ what

    I sense that you are a cuddly critter, hence the endearing snout reference.

    Like


  190. @Rant Casey – BR

    – Would communism be Prole or extreme SWPL?

    Communism = prole
    Left Liberal Third Way Socialism = SWPL

    Actually, no. Whether some proles may feel inclined to adapt the ideology for one reason or another, in general, that is not the case. Go through the list of most “revolutionaries” and you’ll find intellectuals. Even Pol Pot was a Sorbone educated (ok, indoctrinated would fit better here) intellectual. Murdering 40% of Kambodia population was rather clinical to him–he was just making the correct omelette.

    The proles are more traditional, pragmatic, and less prone to indulge in lofty utopian pablum. The intellectuals get into the Jesus complex mode easily, thanks to their hubris gained by learning a few misguided precepts.

    That is why these leftist forms or rule have to be imposed top-down, not from bottom-up.

    Like


  191. Classic 2stroke Vespa – Prole
    Modern 4stroke plastic Vespa – SWPL

    Like


  192. @Black Rebel

    My mistake please carry on, but you should know in general SWPL parents overlap more than they differ. Do mothers have “more” SWPL habits? Sure… but compared to the average individual both parents are still SWPL.

    Like


  193. “On the color wheel, SWPLs would be the tertiary colors (red-orange, blue-green). This is because they are mincing little pukes who love to nuance everything to death.”

    I burst out laughing at that line. It is so true. I think your body of work is establishing you as one of the best satirist around. Good job on this one.

    Like


  194. I preferred SWPL things from that list by about two to one, especially in ideologically-neutral and aesthetic categories. I chubbed when read the “calves” thing of women, heh. That’s because most of us are SWPL, broadly defined as members of the educated/literate white middle and upper class.

    Though I hasten to add that of the things I reacted viscerally against, more were SWPL than prole. The only two Prole things I hated were “kid beauty pageants” and “Disneyland.” There were a lot more SWPL things I disliked, such as NPR and yoga.

    There is schizophrenia among SWPLs. Some are true-believing left/liberals, but not as many as you’d think. Many others publically pass as such while holding very rightie views in private. SWPL hypocrisy is a memetic adaptation to environmental pressures. We pretend to be culturally leftie because we know what’s good for us but live de-facto rightie because of human nature.

    (I have a longish comment with a video link very early in this thread, among the first ten comments. It’s on old school vs present-day lesser-proles. It is still stuck in mod.)

    Like


  195. your girl wears jc penny, my 3rd string girl wears juicy couture, my mistress wears lilly pulitzer, and my girlfriend wears haute couture dresses made by a personal tailor in Paris. she also pays for my bespoke Brazillian suits.

    Like


  196. @PA
    There were a lot more SWPL things I disliked, such as NPR and yoga.

    Fucking Yoga.

    Like


  197. @Julia

    So, he “attempted”, which means there was not an actual rape?

    She now has herpes? I suppose he’d be registered as a transmitter of STD. Is he? And if yes, with herpes?

    Maybe Lithuanian police knows something you don’t.

    Like


  198. I like KrauserPUA. I wouldn’t doubt at all if this is a bullshit anti-PUA fake rape cry.

    Roissy should remove Julia’s bs rape crying comment.

    Like


  199. I kind of like what I just read when I googled him just now. never heard of him before that.

    Like


  200. satanism =prole

    Luciferianism =SWPL

    Like


  201. Krauser’s blog is a good read, I don’t know why this hater-troll is troll-hating all about this. The site she links to is illiterate.

    Like


  202. UFC= Prole

    Golf= SWPL

    Alpha man= prole

    Beta man = SWPL

    Like


  203. PA,
    I’ve never been to Disney World and it certainly isn’t my first choice of places to go in the world, but I do think it is a lot of fun for kids and is clean and well run. I think we’ll go once in the next few years just to experience it. I believe the people that generally go there are middle and upper middle class, unlike some amusement parks that attract a lower class crowd.

    Like


  204. actually it’s:
    Disney World – prole
    EPCOT – SWPL

    Like


  205. Crossfit – SWPL
    P90X – prole

    Like


  206. @Luigi

    Wrong

    Gym: P90 + Crossfit / Lifting Weights / Playing football, baseball + basketball = Prole

    Yoga / Hiking / Yachting / Equestrian = Polo / Skiing / Tennis / Crew / Cycling / Cocaine = SWPL

    Get it right.

    Like


  207. on December 31, 2010 at 2:07 am (r)Evolutionary

    Hey Roissy…

    Those science posts you put up from time to time are informative and useful.

    Anyway, here’s a great website full of great evo-pysch & evo-biology links. Check the ‘CLooney effect’ post–it mirrors what you were saying on female hypergamy a while back. Other good links abound here:

    http://www.biorationalinstitute.com/

    Like


  208. on December 31, 2010 at 2:12 am (r)Evolutionary

    @The King, Luigi–Crossfit & P90X are both prole-ish, but of the two, Crossfit costs way more & bleeds over into SWPL land. It got started in Santa Cruz, CA, and is big in West LA, both SWPL hot spots. P90X is a DVD, and plenty of bootlegs abound.

    But the big SWPL up & comer is “MovNat”, a sort of natural movement–picture Crossfit with logs instead of barbells, and pullups on tree branches rather than in a power cage. Watch for it, it’s gon’ be big with the Vibram 5 Finger SWPL crowd.

    Like


  209. :: reads post, bursts into tears, and beads another Exu necklace ::

    Like


  210. It is a proven fact that the intelligence needed to perform well as an auto-mechanic by far exceeds what is needed to be an entry level MBA or Senior Level Event-Planner.
    Culture-poses often fall short in terms of reality. I mean, the best sex and musical epiphany I ever got to experience happened in the back seat of a skanky car accompanied by the screeching of a cheap AM radio playing Louie Louie over and over again.
    She got off so hard it was tricky taking her back home,

    Like


  211. Too many french words in that post. I felt emasculated. Though I agree with it’s message.

    Like


  212. @ crash
    @ rant casey

    paul graham on taste, beauty, and design. in other words, on aesthetics and values:

    http://www.paulgraham.com/taste.html

    Mathematicians call good work “beautiful,” and so have scientists, engineers, musicians, architects, designers, writers, and painters. Is it just a coincidence that they used the same word, or is there some overlap in what they meant? If there is an overlap, can we use one field’s discoveries about beauty to help us in another?

    For those of us who design things, these are not just theoretical questions. If there is such a thing as beauty, we need to be able to recognize it. We need good taste to make good things. Instead of treating beauty as an airy abstraction, to be either blathered about or avoided depending on how one feels about airy abstractions, let’s try considering it as a practical question: how do you make good stuff?

    If you mention taste nowadays, a lot of people will tell you that “taste is subjective.” They believe this because it really feels that way to them. When they like something, they have no idea why. It could be because it’s beautiful, or because their mother had one, or because they saw a movie star with one in a magazine, or because they know it’s expensive. Their thoughts are a tangle of unexamined impulses.

    Most of us are encouraged, as children, to leave this tangle unexamined. Like many of the half-truths adults tell us, this one contradicts other things they tell us. After dinning into you that taste is merely a matter of personal preference, they take you to the museum and tell you that you should pay attention because Leonardo is a great artist.

    Saying that taste is just personal preference is a good way to prevent disputes. The trouble is, it’s not true. You feel this when you start to design things.

    Whatever job people do, they naturally want to do better. Football players like to win games. CEOs like to increase earnings. It’s a matter of pride, and a real pleasure, to get better at your job. But if your job is to design things, and there is no such thing as beauty, then there is no way to get better at your job. If taste is just personal preference, then everyone’s is already perfect: you like whatever you like, and that’s it.

    As in any job, as you continue to design things, you’ll get better at it. Your tastes will change. And, like anyone who gets better at their job, you’ll know you’re getting better. If so, your old tastes were not merely different, but worse. Poof goes the axiom that taste can’t be wrong.

    Relativism is fashionable at the moment, and that may hamper you from thinking about taste, even as yours grows. But if you come out of the closet and admit, at least to yourself, that there is such a thing as good and bad design, then you can start to study good design in detail. How has your taste changed? When you made mistakes, what caused you to make them? What have other people learned about design?

    Once you start to examine the question, it’s surprising how much different fields’ ideas of beauty have in common. The same principles of good design crop up again and again.

    Good design is simple. You hear this from math to painting. In math it means that a shorter proof tends to be a better one. Where axioms are concerned, especially, less is more. It means much the same thing in programming. For architects and designers it means that beauty should depend on a few carefully chosen structural elements rather than a profusion of superficial ornament.

    It seems strange to have to emphasize simplicity. You’d think simple would be the default. Ornate is more work. But something seems to come over people when they try to be creative. Beginning writers adopt a pompous tone that doesn’t sound anything like the way they speak. Designers trying to be artistic resort to swooshes and curlicues. Painters discover that they’re expressionists. It’s all evasion. Underneath the long words or the “expressive” brush strokes, there is not much going on.

    When you’re forced to be simple, you’re forced to face the real problem. When you can’t deliver ornament, you have to deliver substance.

    Like


  213. on December 31, 2010 at 1:15 pm joshua corning

    I will now break your retarded bifurcated world.

    4chan – prole
    dave chappelle – SWPL

    now that the “prole vs SWPL” paradigm is forever broken and disproved i suggest you write something that is less retarded…..or better yet stop writing.

    Like


  214. @PA, HUA and Science.

    Please expand your list, since you three seem to be on point regarding this topic.

    100% SWPL here. What a surprise!

    Like


  215. […] to that guy and then drive over there. Over and over and over again. That's it. GTA is for proles. New games / expansions / whatever don't change the formula, they just change the scenery and […]

    Like


  216. When you’re forced to be simple, you’re forced to face the real problem. When you can’t deliver ornament, you have to deliver substance.

    I used to find Mr. Bean to be offensively simple. That SE Asian adults would gather around the TV to laugh at his antics seemed simple minded.

    But now I appreciate much of his humor. I’m not a fan of embarassment humor, but he does work with simple themes in an expressive way.

    There is a parallel to Mr. Bean and seducing in a foreign country in which you don’t speak the language. Mr. Bean is universally understood, and so too is the core language of the seducer. You really can do a great deal with very little.

    Like


  217. Prole: Hank Williams, Jr.
    SWPL: Hank Williams

    Prole: flag football
    SWPL: ultimate frisbee

    Like


  218. SWPL: jerry seinfeld

    prole:david putty

    Like


  219. Today in the Atlanta airport I spotted a SWPL wearing a law school sweatshirt with the sleeves pulled up and sipping organic coffee. He stood, puffed out his chest, and swaggered to the counter. Swaggered as in his shoulders dipped with each step and his hips swung forward. When someone froze in their steps so as not to get in his way, he smiled in a self-congratulatory way.

    Please, please don’t let “alpha dominance” be a new SWPL trend.

    Like


  220. Steve Sailer – SWPL

    Interestingly, Sailer wrote about the SWPL blog long before it became big, with the effect that Sailer’s readers were some of the first to adopt the term SWPL. He has also said that Christian Lander has been a long-time reader of his writings.

    Like


  221. Anal: prole
    Pegging: SWPL

    Like


  222. on January 2, 2011 at 9:35 am Rey de Corazones

    Wife swapping: prole
    Cuckold fetish: SWPL

    Like


  223. on January 2, 2011 at 9:40 am Rey de Corazones

    Rum

    I mean, the best sex and musical epiphany I ever got to experience happened in the back seat of a skanky car accompanied by the screeching of a cheap AM radio playing Louie Louie over and over again.

    You know, they say that there’s a critical period during adolescence during which music “imprints” on your brain. During which the music forges emotional connections, deep within your limbic system, that can never hope to be matched by any such connections made later in life.

    I wonder if the same is true for sex? Like, I wonder whether there is a global maximum on the multi-dimensional graph with ecstasy as the dependent variable, and sex acts, drugs, music, hot women, and age as the independent variables.

    I also wonder if those blessed few of us who’ve come close to that maximum during their adolescence find the rest of their sex lives to be, as a result, an endless, unsuccessful run away from ennui.

    It’s possible.

    Like


  224. A minor modification:

    MSNBC – SWPL

    Fox news – high prole

    local news – prole

    Like


  225. he who can do anything,

    do you pay income taxes?

    Like


  226. Excellent comment by Rivelino.

    Like


  227. Tupac Amaru Shakur Thug Life Immortalz =prole

    Kanye west =SWPL

    Like


  228. *1 std reads list*

    *comes across*

    Taylor Swift – prole

    😯

    *1std feels anger*

    *one std fires gets to typing faster than gorbchev high on crack,meth, speed and a venti bold starbucks coffee.*

    Like


  229. juicy couture-prole

    thrift store Levi’s from 1961- SWPL

    Like


  230. French= SWPL

    Spanish= prole

    Like


  231. ^^^spoken as a second language

    sorry about that

    Like


  232. @Anonymous

    satanism =prole

    Luciferianism =SWPL”

    Now that’s funny.

    Like


  233. on January 3, 2011 at 12:58 am mewanthoneycomb

    Posts like these show how much of the true middle class is gone. America, especially the DC area is made of extremist SWPLs and proles. And over here, both sides are as pathetic excuses for humans (although there are more honorable and dignified upper, middle, and working class people in Northern VA). But given all of these conditions, I’d rather live in a prole city like Houston where the people are known for their genuine sincerity, hospitality, and racial acceptance, or a SWPL city like Seattle where they walk-the-walk when it comes to being open-minded, than a place like DC and the Maryland suburbs where the proles are ghetto/cholo trash and the SWPLs are condescending, spoiled, soulless, power hungry, covert racist, take down others to compensate for their low esteem, hypocrites.

    Like


  234. your posts are really going downhill

    Like


  235. It’s easy to laugh at some of these social markers, but the fact is that in certain jobs the use of the wrong ones, whether ironically or sincerely, can get you fired or rather, not hired or not hired back again if you work in a contractual position.

    I’m sure part of the reason that both Hollywood and DC are so lock-step leftish is that their paymasters are, and that their jobs are highly vulnerable because of their temporary or contractual nature. I don’t think that Shannen Doherty (of Bev. Hills 90210) behaved much worse than any spoilt young starlet, but she made it clear she was a Republican, and ended up with a terrible reputation as a result.

    Interesting too that Hollywood was somewhat more Republican in its sympathies back in the day of the studio system, when contracts were longer and more secure.

    One more thing Roissy’s lists leave out is that in certain circles, a touch or two of prole habits or sympathies will make you seem more authentic. Such little grace notes also improve a man’s Game. A man who is SWPL and politically correct about almost everything, but is able to call himself a member of the NRA, or drives a pick-up truck, can probably go very far with SWPL women who want a more macho-seeming man, without actually having to date a criminal or a Republican (which traits they probably think are near equivalents).

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  236. So Roissy, by these estimations, would you categorize yourself as SWPL?

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  237. Anonymous: is that an attempt at logic or an attempt at humor?

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  238. P: neither I was just curious

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  239. jepardy -swpl

    price is right- prole

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  240. I still don’t know what “is” is.

    I thought someone would have said something by now…

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  241. @mewanthoneycomb,

    Where in America is the middle class not “condescending, spoiled, soulless, power hungry, covert racist, take down others to compensate for their low esteem, hypocrites”?

    Seriously, inquiring minds want to know.

    Alias Clio partly nailed it. The temporary and often contractual nature of the major means through which middle class people get their sustenance, together with global labor arbitrage in every field of endeavor, has turned them into what they are now. Middle Class strategy is to play faux-emperors, faux-princesses; to claim faux-righteousness and faux-status distinctions.

    Middle Class folks are too stupid and short sighted to realize that the fads they chase, the standards they claim, and all the facets of their class-based identity are set by the class ABOVE THEM and are distributed TO THEM in order to mark their pathetic wannabe-a-big-shot asses as NOT UPPER CLASS. Do you really think that the people who OWN and CONTROL the major concerns in this society are impressed by these small-fry middle-class trend-followers and psuedo-moralist hypocrites? Don’t you think that if the upper class really behaved the way that the middle class generally imagine the rich/powerful do and the way they behave themselves, that we’d have bloody civil wars in America at least once every generation?

    I try to consider things from the perspective of the upper class few, to get a more accurate picture of why things work out the way they do. That is, I skip over those trendy faux-status middle class small-fry fucks and instead look at the real big-dogs who matter, because THEY are the ones influencing most of the shit that the rest of the people are doing and putting up with. THEY are the creators, the producers, the directors, the real gamers…the rest are just consumers, just commodities, just pawns in a game, just trend-slaves.

    George Carlin was right: “They OWN you”, and the deal is sealed when we let them do it and can’t/don’t raise up an alternative leading elite from ourselves. There will not be any true change until a new and different ruling elite has seize hegemony from the current ruling elites. That new elite class can come from serious schism split in the current upper class as well as the opening up to fresh new truly elite personalities arising from “lower class” backgrounds who eschew all middle-class small-time status-fakery BS. Change will ultimately flow from a CERTAIN ACTION-MOTIVATING DECISION that a fundementally differing new course is needed and in the interests of this new better-capable elite struggling for hegemony against the current top-dog class.

    Now you know why I’m through with that populist political baloney and democratic delusions, and choose a total “elitist” path instead. “Average” people don’t get anything of serious historic importance done, and the main reason for that is in fact that they themselves get in the way of real change! The minute someone expresses that they are “average”, “common”, “mainstream”, in fact they are saying that they are socially beta-fied and utterly unremarkable. At least these “common” folks are somewhat more honest about their lackings. But no such luck getting the pretentious middle class fuckers to admit their own limitations and utter lack of historic distinction.

    You have a better chance of achieving significant change by collaborating with leading gangsters in the “hoods” (of all the various races) then you do trying to get the class of SWPL petty emperors and princesses to work for something bigger then themselves and more long-term than the next year. Think about it. The ones who came up from nothing and fight their way up to dominance are healthier than those who have always been spoiled rotten, who have become soft and self-restricted/limited by “mainstream” trends, and who are convinced that their shit doesn’t stink. The gangsters know that they are generally considered “bad guys” and they don’t give a fuck…their morals come from the Law of the Jungle, and a world that gave them the short straw can STFU about morals and rules. The middle class cares about their “good guy badge” righteousness and “playing by the rules”…and they don’t even consider that their “morals” and “the rules” are written FOR THEM by OTHERS to keep those small-fry small-minded fat fucks in line!

    If you want to find people who have a clue, you have to look at those who are truly HAVES, and those who are truly HAVE-NOTS but have decided to make a struggle. The HAVE-SOME crowd is fucking delusional, and they’ll get more insane and pathetic as they lose their comfy blanket. They will try that higher and holier-than-thou shit with proles who have been shafted to such a degree that they don;t give a fuck about morals and rules anymore, and those SWPLs will get a few extra holes in their person as a result of their pretentious stupidity during such encounters. These cross-class encounters will be more and more common as the middle class has the rug pulled out from under them and their comfy blanket pulled from their grubby fat hands…SWPLs will face the reality and pressure of downward class mobility, and they are ill-prepared (both right-leaning and left-leaning ones) to survive that experience when they will have to move into ‘lower class’ neighborhoods. Left-leaning fallen SWPLs will try to declare themselves the champions of the lower class folks, and they will get smacked down from their imaginary high horses by those who really run shit in the urban jungles. Right-leaning fallen SWPLs are extremely individualistic and narrow, and will try to protect themselves in an individualistic and narrow manner against the hordes of the underclass. Who would you bet on…the lone individual right-leaning former middle class White boy with a gun or two and who believes in “morals” and “rules”, or the organized gang that rules the urban neighborhood?

    Lemme make it crystal clear that the reason there really aren’t any serious White-boy “militias” is that right-leaning individualist narrow “play by the rules” and “God/justice/righteousness will intervene on my behalf and prevail” and “my one or two guns and especially the police will protect me and mine” attitude. It will take an entire different way of seeing things and doing things to make it when the White middle class boys really get the shaft and have to live in the “lower class” areas. No, you won’t make it “on your own”. No, God and Justice and Righteousness and all that other bullshit will not intervene to save your ass when you live in underclass Hell. Your one or two guns and the police will not sufficiently protect you. And above all, understand that clinging to your former middle class identity is a liability in underclass Hell. Wave your flag, hold up your cross, yap about “morals” and “rules’ and “standards”…this is like trying to nail a vampire with a pink dildo instead of a wooden stake. SWPLs, your “America” doesn’t exist anymore, outside of those middle class communities which you are familiar with…not even in those still largely White poor urban areas that haven’t been finally swallowed up by the diverse underclass hordes yet.
    Even the poor urban Whites know that the SWPLs in your “America” won’t do a fucking thing for them when the going gets tough, so don’t expect any solemn respect for your “morals”, “rules”, your flag-waving and your crucifixes.
    Only senile nostalgic old fucks and newly fallen former middle class Whites will pay any lip-service to that garbage, and only for about a year or two max after they are submerged into underclass Hell. As they witness the remaining SWPLs callously shut their doors and get even more pretentious and self-congratulatory in their rebuke of the fallen as ‘losers’, they will learn that the appropriate response is total forsaking of that old middle class American identity and delivering a big middle finger to any SWPL dumb-fuck that crosses their path and gives them an opportunity to exact a little taste of revenge.

    The old middle class will be eradicated and (to some degree) replaced by a number of factors and forces. The real question is what will be the response to this massive change. There is great danger and great opportunity in this situation.

    The great danger is that the White middle class shithead become swallowed up entirely into the non-White underclass hordes—that they become and give birth to a bunch of coffee-colored underclass wiglets! You can already see that phenomenon rearing its fugly head everywhere that there is significant close contact and overlaps of living space between Whites and non-Whites.

    The great opportunity is for the forging of a new class on a fundamentally new basis with new aspirations and perspectives from the better elements of the disabused former middle class Whites and talented White proles, especially in joint collaboration with a split segment from the ruling elites that realize they are currently leading us all (themselves included ultimately) off the cliff into a hellish abyss and MUST cause a revolutionary change of course. Then, we’ll have the chance to make a real fight, to win that fight, to reforge and restore the nation as we see fit, and to put this re-won reforged and cleansed nation on a course that leads away from the abyss towards a better future destiny. We either do this, or we’ll all be the much-abused long-suffering bitches of the next risen superpowers and next global elites of the world. The rising world powers and foreign-born global elites aren’t impressed with you, American SWPLs…they’re coming for your shit , and they will take everything and smack you down like a helpless prison bitch if you continue playing your game as you do today. It’s too late to avoid that fall and smackdown…you earned it with your own stupidity and slavish loyalty to these crusty second-rate fat-cat imperial ruling elites in America, and so it’s coming at you with the speed of a bullet train. But you still can DECIDE what you will do about the future: will you change to make yourselves and people like you ready and worthy to reign again (better than ever), or will you accept being a slave (worse than ever)?

    Without power, there is no freedom. If you don’t make yourselves worthy of power and thus freedom, you’ll never get it (or get it back). If you want respect, you must become truly respectable by changing yourselves in such a deep way that you inspire awe and fear in those who would compete against you. You must write your own rules and enforce them in your reconquered domain. You must completely redefine your moral paradigm and your purpose to succeed…no more “Mr. nice guy”, no more “can’t we all just get along and sing kumbaya”, no more petty small-fry middle-class “American dreams”, no more parroting the positions of those filthy motherfuckers who postured as moral reps and trendy examples to be followed during the 11th hour! You must decide for yourself what really matters…or it will be decided for you by others.

    It won’t be a simplistic ‘race war’ nor a simplistic ‘class struggle’ nor a simplistic ‘culture war’ or ‘holy war’. It won’t be some sort of clearly ‘good vs. evil’ fight in the way that propaganda about WWII is often packaged with loads of sugarcoating for the masses.
    It is really a struggle between those who are ‘like you’ and every sonofabitch out there who is ‘not like you’. Welcome to the next World War. That war has already begun, and many of those ‘not like you’ are on the the move and on the offensive, while you have been sleeping and distracted by petty bullshit. The ‘like you’ team is a wreck—disorganized, decentralized, disabused of a healthy sense of its own self-identity and self-interests, demoralized, disoriented, directionless, disengaged, delusional, dumbed-down like a muthafucker, seriously in need of a diet and some exercise, in a diaspora into phony meaningless identity groups and often denationalized as refugees acculturating into ‘not like you’ groups! The ‘like you’ team better get its shit together before the ‘not like you’ teams on the prowl come and eat you and yours for breakfast!

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  242. Travel destinations in terms of status building for SWPLs:

    Depending on where you are in the US: Prole/SWPL
    France: SWPL
    Germany: Prole
    Russia: Mighty Über prole
    UK: SWPL
    England: Prole
    New Zealand: SWPL
    Australia: both
    Canada: only proles allowed
    Tibet/Nepal/Bhutan/Ladakh: Only Über SWPLs allowed in) these THE ultimate travel destination for status whoring SWPLs
    China: to big to classify
    Japan: SWPL
    Korea (ROK): Prole
    Korea (DPR): Über SWPL (Kim Jong Licensed to Ill makes SPWL hipster grad student chicks wet with his Ultra Left progressivism) same goes for Iran and Saudistan except for Oman
    India: SWPL
    Lebanon: both
    South America: SWPL
    Mexico: Über prole
    Costa Rica: SWPL
    Bali: SWPL but Aussie prole
    Philippines: Über prole
    Rhodesia: Refined Prole
    Zim: Über SWPL: see Korea (DPR); because of the 5 Brigade connection and all that
    Ex British colonies of Subsaharan Africa: SWPL
    Ex French colonies of Subsaharan Africa: neither
    Ex Portuguese colonies of Subsaharan Africa: jury is still out
    Siberia: SWPLs weeping at the failure (but certainly not the horror) of Stalinism…sigh….what might have been…
    Chechnya: hardcore
    Afghanada: Über prole (military) but also Über SWPL (NGO workers)
    Morocco: SWPL
    Mauretania: how dare they
    Niger: where?
    Nirvana: Do I need to spell it out?
    Ragnarok: SWPLs wouldn’t be caught dead here, Proles wouldn’t be caught dead anywhere else
    Italy: transcends both
    Crete: refined prole

    Feel free to complete the list……

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  243. Its blog posts like that make me glad I’m not American and don’t have to worry about shit like this.

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  244. A lot of good stuff in your comment Alex. A little too apocalyptic but the point is not entirely off. You make a similar argument as blogger Mencius: no struggle is successful unless it’s coopted by the elite, or by an ascendant splinter faction thereof. You also echo a point I made earlier in that the current trajectory is ultimately suicidal for current elites, and the clear-eyed among them see this.

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  245. Apart from the overtly liberal crap, I like pretty much everything on this list. But then, I’m a Gemini.

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  246. I always advise pay no heed to what women say; instead, watch what they do. You shall know them by their actions.

    >>

    watch how she treats other women. the scheming russian will use her guile on gullible american men, but expose her real claws to rival women. learn all you need to know by her interaction with other women.

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  247. @MW

    “Travel destinations in terms of status building for SWPLs:

    Depending on where you are in the US: Prole/SWPL
    France: SWPL
    Germany: Prole
    Russia: Mighty Über prole
    UK: SWPL
    England: Prole
    New Zealand: SWPL
    Australia: both
    Canada: only proles allowed
    Tibet/Nepal/Bhutan/Ladakh: Only Über SWPLs allowed in) these THE ultimate travel destination for status whoring SWPLs
    China: to big to classify
    Japan: SWPL
    Korea (ROK): Prole
    Korea (DPR): Über SWPL (Kim Jong Licensed to Ill makes SPWL hipster grad student chicks wet with his Ultra Left progressivism) same goes for Iran and Saudistan except for Oman
    India: SWPL
    Lebanon: both
    South America: SWPL
    Mexico: Über prole
    Costa Rica: SWPL
    Bali: SWPL but Aussie prole
    Philippines: Über prole
    Rhodesia: Refined Prole
    Zim: Über SWPL: see Korea (DPR); because of the 5 Brigade connection and all that
    Ex British colonies of Subsaharan Africa: SWPL
    Ex French colonies of Subsaharan Africa: neither
    Ex Portuguese colonies of Subsaharan Africa: jury is still out
    Siberia: SWPLs weeping at the failure (but certainly not the horror) of Stalinism…sigh….what might have been…
    Chechnya: hardcore
    Afghanada: Über prole (military) but also Über SWPL (NGO workers)
    Morocco: SWPL
    Mauretania: how dare they
    Niger: where?
    Nirvana: Do I need to spell it out?
    Ragnarok: SWPLs wouldn’t be caught dead here, Proles wouldn’t be caught dead anywhere else
    Italy: transcends both
    Crete: refined prole”

    Actually…

    France, UK/Scotland, Germany, Spain/Catalonia, Italy/Vatican… pretty much Anglo-Saxon countries are all – SWPL why? Education and high culture.

    Eastern Europe – Prole
    New England esp conn, mass, NJ and RI – SWPL
    West or South USA – Prole due to immigration

    China / not too big to classify btw since all the major cities are near the water – SWPL due to business, language and schools

    French speaking countries / former colonies – Usually SWPL
    Spanish speaking countries / former colonies – Prole

    N. Korea – High Prole… why? SWPL parents would never risk having their precious kids killed.

    USA, Western Europe, South Africa & former colonies, Japan/China – SWPL

    Italy / Greece – SWPL since many own lavish estates
    Florida / Cali – Prole

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  248. One of the widening chasms between proles & SWPLs will be the obesity crisis. Morbid Obesity, laziness, car dependency and slovenly ways are becoming the calling card of the prole. It is going to snuff out their residual cultural conservatism as they become big time leaches on the health care system, and must abandon any pretense to personal responsibility and self control. Everywhere you go in North America that it is not a ‘metro’ scene, it is becoming the same: hordes of slobs waddling from their cars to fast food joints, and eventually to a rendezvous with type 2 diabetes. The multi-billion dollar health care fiasco that is looming will eventually be part of a class war that divides those with a modicum of self control against those who have little or none.

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  249. @Northshore

    You’re right its easy to tell someone’s class by their weight, height and beauty. People of high class can be picky when it comes to mate selection and thus have better genes. Type II diabetes is so prole.

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  250. @the_king

    being german i have to insist that germany is SWPL while the UK is prole. i’d consider eastern europe to be a SWPL travel destination too.

    and, finally:

    analyzing class preferences: SWPL

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  251. @Turtur

    I am also German, but I am not foolish to know that SWPL, Yuppie and WASP culture is all based on British customs and traditions.

    UK and I mean London is by far the most SWPL place you can live. Cambridge and Oxford trumps Harvard, Yale and Princeton in terms of respectability in upper castes. Why do you think east coast schools and streets are named after places in the UK? They don’t call it New England for nothing.

    Also sorry but you are very wrong on eastern Europe being SWPL. Back packing Europe is SWPL, while it is a right of passage for most SWPL to visit Paris, Amsterdam, London and Rome. Even tho most parts of Italy especially Sicily is very preole.

    I would agree with your last point. Preoles complain on the streets, while SWPL write academic papers on that issue and pretend to care.

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  252. One nitpicking thing I notice…
    UFC isn’t a sport… MMA is a sport. UFC is a promotion company/governing body like the NFL is to football or FIFAis to soccer.

    So to be consistent, you’d have to say something like:

    prole- MMA
    SWPL- soccer
    OR
    prole- UFC
    SWPL- FIFA

    but not;
    prole- UFC
    SWPL- tennis

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  253. there needs to be a new, accurate term for the emerging third class in American society. We have Proles and we have SWPLs… but there is a third class of bloggers and intellectuals who are neither. They do cross-fit instead of the SWPLs cardio. They eat paleo diet food instead of SWPLs vegetarian or vegan food. They’re more libertarian than liberal. What should we call them? Paleo-Intellectuals?

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  254. Science, what do you call the group of people who don’t identify with a group?

    Rogues.

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  255. xsplat.. by that rationale, everyone is a rogue… since SWPLs don’t identify with proles and proles don’t identify with a SWPLs. but they identify with eachother.
    Just like this third group, they don’t identify with SWPLs or proles, but they identify with eachother. There are certain traits that they all have… they understand race realism/HBD(http://www.halfsigma.com/2009/06/hbd-human-biodiversity.html); they understand evolutionary psychology; they understand there is an objective beauty; they understand the free market is better than government monopolies; they like cross-fit more than cardio; they like paleo food more than vegetarianism… there are a whole slew of blogs and bloggers that have the same general worldview, like the HL Mencken’s of the 21st century. From Patri Friedman to Steve Sailer to Roissy… they all have a similar underlying theme. We’re not SWPLs, and we’re not Proles. What are we?

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  256. @xsplat

    Actually they are called generation-X, not rogues since that would imply total disconnect from the social system.

    Go read “Class: A Guide Through the American Status System” By Paul Fussel.

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