Dealing With Cutesy Chicks

A reader is annoyed by a common ingenue habit:

I have game. I am not a AFC. That said, here is a pattern I’ve noticed.

EVERY girl who has used “ok, ill catch ya later babe”
Or, “Hey honey, how’ve you been?”…. has ALWAYS been a dead end.
(super-flirt = dead end)

My take:  She is wired to string guys along…..and loves the pack of dogs pursuing her…
Frankly, I fiind it annoying, b/c it’s clear they’re F’ing with me…
No girl I’ve ever fucked has used the word “honey” and “babe” on me while in seduction mode…
In general, I disengage immediately when I sense asymmetric interest level   (eg: doesn’t counteroffer a date night)

Would love to hear your analysis, and I’d love some disarming rebuttals for this, to shut down her cute little game, and to show I am not falling for her bullshit mindgames….

There are two reasons a girl you aren’t screwing (but have designs to screw) might refer to you by an inappropriately affectionate term such as “babe” or “honey”:

1. She is aroused by you and tamps down her desire by “letting the air out” of the interaction, typically by reverting to cutesy mode and away from sexy mode.

2. She is, as the reader says, an incorrigible flirt, and gets off on giving men hope by pretending to a level of intimacy that she doesn’t really feel herself.

I, too, find this habit annoying, and my response is usually stock:

“Honey? What’re we, a married couple already? Jesus you move fast.”

Basically, disqualify her and tacitly accuse her of chasing you. The cutesy act is beta bait to entrap you into a chaser frame. What do you do with beta bait? You throw it right back at her, and the best way to do that is to imply she’s expecting more from you than you are from her. A skilled dodge of beta bait is a challenge to a woman, and she’ll respond by either adjusting her attitude in a more chastened direction or raising the shit test stakes as her arousal heightens and the prospect of sex becomes credible.


  1. on July 24, 2013 at 2:28 pm Zombie Shane

    Honestly, I don’t know that these “mindgame” chicks are worth the effort.

    [CH: There really isn’t any effort expended once you get the hang of it. It’s pretty much all upside to watch a girl’s face brighten with newfound desire because you successfully pulled her limbic strings.]

    Unless maybe you’ve gone full-blown nihilist and you’re determined to tap EVERY SINGLE god-damned piece of ass which crosses your path – bar none.

    [Or maybe you just want to get better when you talk to girls, even if the total number of girls is low.]

    But, again, in all honestly, I can think of a bazillion things I’d rather do than waste any calories pursuing a “mindgame” chick.

    [Marathoners waste calories, but they still run, because they do it for the fun of it.]

    Life is just too damned short.

    […to blow prospects because of bad game.]


    • “Honestly, I don’t know that these “mindgame” chicks are worth the effort.”

      Those chicks are the most fun, and they’re good at flirting. If a girl is flirting with you, it means there is an open door or window for you. If you don’t like mid games you’re a bore, or probably don’t have good game. More confident men play along and end up getting what they want.

      “But, again, in all honestly, I can think of a bazillion things I’d rather do than waste any calories pursuing a “mindgame” chick.”

      You sound old and tired. You need to revamp. Must be that Frankenstein school wearing you out 😀

      Anyway, this “babe” and “honey” stuff aren’t examples of mindgaming. A woman says it to a man she isn’t really interested in and feels comfortable around like a buddy (he’s not giving her gina and psyche tingles).

      Thus, I think reason 2 is right: She loves to flirt and she has a way about her. Yes, a way of interacting with men even if she isn’t attracted to them. However, she has no intentions of letting that guy pursue her seriously. So, don’t read too much into the “babe” and “honey” lingo, unless she sends other unmistakable signals.


      • ” If you don’t like mid games you’re a bore, or probably don’t have good game. More confident men play along and end up getting what they want. ”

        Or, they give their attention to the cute girls who just don’t play mind games.

        But the real question here is: can a girl NOT play mind games? Is it only a matter of degrees in the mind game?


      • It’s de Frankfurt school! The Frankfurters!!!


      • on July 24, 2013 at 5:13 pm Zombie Shane

        Look, maybe there’s a problem with here semantics.

        Or a difference of degree – a really big difference.

        When I saw the word “mindgame”, I was thinking of some chicks I’ve known who were simply “off”.

        Like a really badly “off”.

        Such a chick would be all goo-goo gah-gah friendly and flirty and sexy and seductive with you, but as soon as you started to move in for the, ah, “kill”, you’d suddenly realize that there was some giant gaping inhuman hole in her personality, where warmth and empathy and kindness simply didn’t exist – and that those big saucer eyes which had been staring at you so long, without blinking, were in fact the eyes of something reptilian.

        Or, as the kid said on Longmire the other night, “Shark Eyes”:

        Actually, I could see that bride-from-hell in the wedding thread possibly fitting the bill – a bitch who would lead you on and tease your dick and strangle up some blue balls in you and then when you leaned in for nothing more than a little friendly tongue action, she’d suddenly yank her head back and frown at you and step back as though she didn’t even know who the hell you were:

        Witches like that send a chill down my spine.

        Very much “steer a wide berth” and “DNFW”.

        But, again, if you guys are just talking about a sassy whore with a bad attitude who needs a good spanking, then I apologize for the misunderstanding.


      • on July 24, 2013 at 5:18 pm Zombie Shane

        Like a really badly “off” = Like really badly “off”.


      • on July 24, 2013 at 5:20 pm Zombie Shane

        a problem with here semantics = a problem here with semantics

        Fuck I can’t speed-edit worth a damn.


      • Women play no “mind games” worthy of the name. That is our turf. Their methods are standard and predictable and neutralized by a series of easily adopted techniques, otherwise known as “game.”

        A woman does not use her mind during the intersexual exchange, and if she does, she is in serious trouble: that means she is relying on turning one of her chief vulnerabilities into a strength. There is not ever an instance when a woman attempts to trick a man of any experience that he does not immediately recognize and manipulate the attempt to his own advantage — which she loves and tingles to and moistens for (cf. Lily above). They are kindergarteners attempting to outwit wizened gurus. What makes it “cutesy” is the transparency of their intentions despite their goofily innocent execution.

        Either that, or you are lowering yourself to the level of your competition, giving away the man’s chief advantage in flirting. And for what? To be more sporting?

        No, women have other qualities with which they mindlessly manipulate men.



      • Matt, the argument here is whether a guy should pursue a girl that flirts and likes to play mindgames, or go for the easy lays.

        We’re not discussing the “instance when a woman attempts to trick a man of any experience.” Indeed, a man with experience is going to understand her behavior and work it to “his own advantage — which she loves…” Therefore, a man who says he doesn’t like games is not a man of experience. He’s more like those old hags that get set up on blind dates who tell the guy the moment he comes through the door ‘I’m not into games’. Right away they put a damper on the fun. Yuck!

        “Women play no “mind games” worthy of the name. That is our turf. Their methods are standard and predictable and neutralized by a series of easily adopted techniques, otherwise known as “game.”

        Which…. means that a man will have no problems in detecting and countering it. Therefore, any guy reading this blog saying I don’t like women that play mindgames is deficient. This is what I was trying to say to Zombie.

        “And for what? To be more sporting?”

        It’s not about sporting. It’s about feeling more comfortable, and shit testing.

        “No, women have other qualities with which they mindlessly manipulate men.”

        And, those are?


      • And, those are?

        Take a wild guess, b-cups.


      • You’ve never forgotten those Bs, have you?

        Still need you to enumerate…..


      • on July 25, 2013 at 11:43 am RappaccinisDaughter

        Oh, Matt, my darling dear. Comparing women and our intellects to those of children will not make these things reality. Honey, you cannot reconfigure reality to suit your biases; reality exists in and of itself without your (cherished! beautiful!) eyes there to observe or your (precious! brilliant!) mind to interpret. In short, yes, the tree falling in the forest does make a sound.

        Not that I wish you or anyone else to continue to underestimate me, lover boy. It’s just one more tactical advantage among many.


      • Sweet mercy…

        Thank you for the timely example of a woman’s mindlessness and childlike inability to participate in the subtleties of games.

        The “other qualities with which they … manipulate men” are …

        … wait for it …

        … waaaait forrr ittt ….

        … THEIR TITS.

        I even put “b-cups” in there as a can’t-miss hint, which you proceeded to miss.

        Women manipulate men with their appearance and femininity, which has next-to-nothing to do with their conscious intellect. Wit is a third- or fourth-order skill for a woman.

        And the ones who show some ability to verbally game this medium (where a woman’s feminine strengths are neutralized) — like you (B-cup), to some degree, and RappaccinisDaughter (A-cup) — are novices compared to men. Any verbal facility whatsoever in a woman leaves the impression that a natural ugliness forced her to develop a verbal facility in compensation for a lack of a woman’s typical strengths, which would otherwise have made the development of such skills superfluous.

        Hence “pix or it didn’t happen” and “tits or GTFO.”

        WINK WINK. I am flirting with you right now. Engaged ain’t married.



      • Oh… meant their looks. And I was supposed to get it’s what you meant by you saying B-cups? I mean, I thought girl’s looks are understood to being the number one manipulator of men. I was thinking you had some experience with some chick who was trying to manipulate you. I was hoping to get some wild story, Yareally style. Bummer! We’re not in synch. Been away from each other too long.

        Anyway, I love it when you pound me (on the head). I’m going to play dumb more often.

        “Hence “pix or it didn’t happen” and “tits or GTFO.”
        Such revelations happen only in private.

        “Engaged ain’t married.”
        Engaged, and your cheating? I don’t cheat.

        BTW, I just remembered. I thought you liked them tough cookies. Didn’t you say you fuck them into submission? Just wanted a clarification on that too.


      • “Any verbal facility whatsoever in a woman leaves the impression that a natural ugliness forced her to develop a verbal facility in compensation for a lack of a woman’s typical strengths, which would otherwise have made the development of such skills superfluous.”

        No, not necessarily. Ugly women sleep with men too fast, or push for sex, or pursue men because they don’t inspire sexual interest and they don’t get chased or pursued.

        “Verbal facility” is more an indicator of a sassy/playful personality; not a doorknob bore. A girl can still be shy, modest, and innocent while engaging in lively conversation and enjoying the company of a man. In addition, lots of this flirting doesn’t end in bedding for the more guarded girl who doesn’t engage in casual sex. But it’s her way to shit test and/or to have fun. An experienced man (as you call yourself) should be able to cut through all of this and turn it around to his own advantage. Flirtatious lively banter is a game between the pursuer and the pursued. Check out all the old black&white HW movies.


      • The two girls who put the NAW in the NAWALT, lined up in a pretty row.

        Let me put it more simply. There does not exist a female mind that can match or exceed my own, therefore what you regard as “mind games” appear to me as precious little self-deceptions that are fun to tease a girl about. Fun for everyone involved. I’m just talking about what I observe. I can’t speak for SWPL Stu or Fred Fratboy or Beta Bill or whomever you typically match your wits against.

        Of course there are many gradations in both sexes, and relative to any two individuals there will be overlap, plenty of opportunity for fun and female manipulation.

        In the event that they get one over on me, like Rapp here and a precious few others occasionally do, I praise them to the heavens, because it is sexy as fuck, if incredibly incongruous and rare, to witness such proficiency coming out of an attractive face and body.

        But wit can’t be faked, and if men are superior 90% of the time, that is good enough for government work — i.e., good enough to not have to append NAWALT to every sentence.



      • Good god, this is the worst flirting I have ever read lol I can’t look away, it’s like a trainwreck I just have to keep reading…I wish my brain was smart enough to keep up lolololz


      • on July 25, 2013 at 4:05 pm RappaccinisDaughter

        The flirting between me and Lily, here? It’s true. One of these days, she and I are going out for drinks. My treat, Lily, and we’re drinking off the top shelf.


      • My pleasure, RappD.

        Our boobs will rejoice in their respective A-cup and B-cup entrapments, as we enjoy Top Shelf drinks. And, even though I am not much of a drinker, I’ll join you, babe. I like Top Shelf everything.

        (BTW, do you think Matt will consider this flirting?)


      • Do NOT go out, you guys!!! YaReally will bang you both in the john! And it will be recorded on the YaReallyArchive 4EVA!!!



      • “YaReally will bang you both in the john!
        Wow! I didn’t consider that. I hate sex in the john. Sooooooo, not classy.

        I like Matt better than [/mindgame].


      • Did my e-flirting work, though? I have to bang you at your Bachelorette party.

        (I am this close to Rapp, too, but she keeps sending me phone numbers with “555” in them. Am I misreading the signals?)

        Come on, the CH comment section is fast becoming the place for people to hook up, haven’t you heard?


      • I don’t do bachelorette parties. You should know this about me by now. I’m a traditional girl. I said, I hate bachelorette parties. You haven’t been reading. Anyway, you’ll have to find another way to get to me 🙂

        “Come on, the CH comment section is fast becoming the place for people to hook up, haven’t you heard?”

        Hahahha….I got to say, you’re always good for a laugh, Matt. That said, more than anything else, this is your food for thought. I’ve been saying this for eons now. Remember, a few months ago you, Kate, and I were discussing feministx shenanigans over posting suggestive pics of herself? I accused her of wanting to cheat on her BF with one of these alphas here. You said, she’ll never meet anyone here, guaranteed. In her case you’re right, but look at Kate/Mark, you underestimated the power of alpha blogs hookups. Feminine women do have something with which to bargain with! There is no denying it.

        OK, back to flirting now, I mean mindgames.

        Where is Rapp? She’s soon becoming my partner in crime.


      • I forgot to say no one else would be invited to your bachelorette party.

        Two nights in Vegas, my treat, then you can give your precious vajazzler over to beta hubby forever. It will relax you, I promise.

        Oh, and no birth control, I’m Catholic. So let’s plan for the week before the ceremony, in case anybody knows how to subtract backwards from nine months. Very traditional.


      • Oh…..I see! My very own batch bash for my Vaj, eh? I love my vaj being the center of activities.

        So, the cat’s out of the bag; you wanna impregnate me with a little King! How sweet. I can hardly resist the thought. And, you’re going to give me a taste of alpha cuz you think all I know is taste of beta. How generous!

        And, you’re paying for my sex adventure (with you) too. Well, I said you were generous (the only kind I like). (YaReally would have her pay, see the difference here? What a lowlife! :D)

        Well, first I got to get back in shape; lose the 2 lbs I gained in Europe. Actually, just got back from the gym. I’ll probably be sore tomorrow, but it’s a small price to pay for beauty. Second, I’ll sleep un it, and give you an answer in the mornin’ (isn’t it a song by some fat guy from the 80s? Shucks! I’m quoting fat men now). Third, you got to promise me no boasting at Le Chateau. Discretion is King. And then, maybe will have a deal 😉


      • “those big saucer eyes which had been staring at you so long, without blinking, were in fact the eyes of something reptilian.”

        Poetry award of the day. It’s scary when we see the evo underpinnings of survival-at-any-cost-to-others.


      • “Or, they give their attention to the cute girls who just don’t play mind games.”

        Cute girls who don’t flirt or paly mind games?

        If you know some, go for it. Point is, cute girls like to play, if ever so gently. When I say play, mind games, and flirt I don’t mean women with attitudes, or women with the aggressiveness of men who have to compensate for being ugly, so they push you to sleep with them and you oblige because you’re drunk and allow yourself to dumpster dive. Cute girls are not necessarily bold in their flirting, and their mindgames could be subtle, but they’re still playing. You just have to detect it. From time to time, they might throw something more brazen your way, which is usually just a signal for you to be more aggressive and pursue. Feminine women like to be pursued, and they view men that pursue as manly and dominant, and challenge-oriented (where she’s the challenge). Men who like easy-to-handle women imply to the female brain that they’re not as masculine. Women love to be able to play “hard to get” with a willing man. This is mindgames.

        “But the real question here is: can a girl NOT play mind games? Is it only a matter of degrees in the mind game?”

        Well, mindgaming is a form of flirting. All girls with some value develop their flirting skills, and it becomes part of their personality. So, guys should learn to flirt and play mindgames in order to interact with, or counter act/neutralize her game. I know it sounds like a lot of work, but really it isn’t; it’s fun work. Her flirting can be brazen or coy – usually, it’s in the middle – a little bit of both. It also largely depends on the girl’s mood and where she is in her monthly cycle. The sexier she is or feels, the more confidence she’ll have to flirt and play. Furthermore, “good girls” will usually convince themselves they are just playing and won’t let the flirting escalate to sleeping with the guy they’re attracted to. If a guy takes a girl up on her flirting (he pursues and he’s dominant enough), it might end exactly with her in bed with him. So playing along with girls flirting can pay off for guys. That’s why I don’t get it when some men say they don’t like mind games and look for clear signals, or they don’t pursue and like waiting for girls to chase them. Even if it works and they end up sleeping with said girls that sent clear signals or chased, it’s not as satisfying as getting a girl YOU pursued to bed. I think there is more a sense of accomplishment and virility for men when they catch their prey, no?


      • Lily: Good example of how women are so dumb the idea of mind games is hilarious. Thinking about if a woman “likes” you makes about as much sense as wondering if your car likes you. You put gas in it, it goes. Sometimes it breaks down and won’t go even if you put gas in it.

        Womant (there is no plural) is just a sensor that more or less accurately perceives your social status and responds according to that one VU meter.

        It has vestigal mental activity that looks like thinking, which is the partially de-activated mental capacity of thinking men ( a minority).

        Before I became a rock star, I was complaining about some twat not liking me. My friend, one of those crazy dudes that sometimes bursts forth with pearls between attempts to cadge money, saiid:
        “They don’t like you for the wrong reasons, and when they like you, they’ll like you for the wrong reasons.”

        One thing worse about women than cars: They can never be effectively renovated once worn out, at least not with current tech.


      • However, womant nodes can learn important professional skills like being good nurse-practitioners. No genius to see here, but just being responsible is better than a lot of ignorant, baby-eating men can muster.


      • “Thinking about if a woman “likes” you makes about as much sense as wondering if your car likes you. You put gas in it, it goes.”

        Well, that’s certainly another approach – you make her like you. But then this still make my point relevant – you have to interact with her (flirting and playing). Simply waiting for her to show you “the damned pussy” isn’t always realistic, especially if you want a certain girl who isn’t doing that. This is the time you have to work a little to get what you want.

        BTW, I’ve always wanted to ask you: Have you been masturbating long on the subway?

        You better off approaching those girls, instead 🙂


      • A telltale sign of a normally outgoing, flirty woman, being attracted to you, is that she is more subdued in her interactions with you, than she is with other men in the vicinity.


      • This is useful to know. You are partially forgiven for being female.


      • They’re all “subdued,” so they all must be secretly crushing on me.


      • This is very true. I am shy by nature anyway but when I really liked a man I was incredibly shy. and nervous. But I’m thinking it could be taken the wrong way by a man, he may just think we’re boring, and not understand it’s shyness because we like him so much.


      • or can be perceived as being a little bit slow, unintelligent.


      • New song: “Hyper Game Scene”. Get it?


      • How geniunely, deeply nice you are is about 10000000000 more important than how “smart” since the only female geniuses were Sappho, Joni Mitchell, and Martha Graham out of like 30 billion. And I don’t mean “polite”.


      • “If you don’t like mid games you’re a bore, or probably don’t have good game. More confident men play along and end up getting what they want.”

        This. These are usually the hottest and flirtiest girls. Ya, they play games, but:

        “[CH: There really isn’t any effort expended once you get the hang of it. It’s pretty much all upside to watch a girl’s face brighten with newfound desire because you successfully pulled her limbic strings.]”

        This. These chicks steamrolled over me and frustrated me when I started out. Now I’m always 10 flirty steps ahead of them and they’re mind-blown by that because it’s rare to run into, especially from (by society’s standards) an average guy. You can learn to handle this stuff and then like CH says, it’s no effort expended.

        But ya, the “babe” and “honey” stuff is usually a signal that she’s good at push/pull and she knows how to string guys along, has a ton of orbiters, etc. She’ll make you think you have a chance, then flake, then sweet talk you, then do it all over again.

        The catch is that, like I say, they’re usually the hottest ones. Also, oddly enough, despite the flirty impression they give off I’ve found that they tend not to sleep with a ton of guys. Usually they have a regular (an ex or whatever, usually who treated them like shit and doesn’t orbit them) but most guys they meet get wrapped around their little finger so they lose attraction for them (those guys are failing their shit-test basically by eagerly jumping at the “honey” stuff) and won’t bang them (Hypergamy won’t let them) and just put them in the Orbiter category and use them for free shit and rides and dates and vacations and shit.

        I have one right now that I’m experimenting creating massive drama with. Really hardcore push/pull, starting full out “no fuck YOU” fights, pretending to be pissed off, going from massive attention to flat-out ignoring her, etc. It seems to be making progress, but I know going in that this’ll be a long slow game to get her to actually meet up and bang so I’m not investing much energy into it. Figure it could be a solid month to go still. But it’ll happen eventually, because I’m awesome. lol


      • on July 24, 2013 at 11:04 pm Zombie Shane

        > “I have one right now that I’m experimenting creating massive drama with. Really hardcore push/pull, starting full out “no fuck YOU” fights, pretending to be pissed off, going from massive attention to flat-out ignoring her, etc.”

        Like I said above, I don’t give a damn if the bitch is a Jayne Mansfield or a Raquel Welch or a Monica Belluci in their primes – I got better things to do with my life than play games.

        Either show me the damned pussy, or get the hell outta my way so that I can find me a chick who will.


      • on July 25, 2013 at 12:12 am Hugh G. Rection

        Some enjoy the chase.


      • on July 25, 2013 at 8:07 am Zombie Shane

        > “Some enjoy the chase.”

        Look, to each his own – if that’s your thing, then, by all means, have at it.

        Me, I’m still something of a romantic – more of a “Love at First Sight” kinduva guy.

        But if you’re ever in a really contemplative mood, and if you have a couple of free days on your hand, then you might consider writing a 5,000 [er, maybe a 25,000?] word essay on the infinitely subtle distinctions between “The Chase” and simply being just another “Beta Orbiter”.


      • “Me, I’m still something of a romantic – more of a “Love at First Sight” kinduva guy.”

        Aww that is so sweet it made me smile.


      • Watch it. You’re being cutesy.


      • @Zombie

        5,000 words not needed:

        Intent + outcome dependence = Orbiter

        Intent + freedom from outcome = The Chase

        It’s really not as complicated as you imagine it. You’re just demonizing it because you’ve invested in a “hopeless romantic” type Identity. Which is fine if you’re happy. Some people just play touch football with their buddies instead of shooting for the NFL.

        Ultimately though, your choice of options is limited. That’s not a judgement of you as a person anymore than saying entering a store with $5 means your purchasing options are more limited than the guy entering with $50.

        Again if that doesn’t bother you, cool, best of luck. Some of us aren’t content with what we’re handed.


      • So the only difference between a seducer and an orbiter is what a man is telling himself in his own mind?



      • Aww that is so sweet it made me smile.

        or, phrased another way, ‘welcome to my friendzone’


      • @Matt

        Basically, yes. The same way buying a drink (intent, both guys are showing interest, they aren’t buying a homeless crackhead a drink) when you’re a beta (outcome dependent, I hope she likes me omg maybe if I buy her a drink she’ll have to talk to me and I can get some validation) has a different outcome than when an alpha (I feel like buying a drink, who gives a shit whether it makes her like me or not, I can bang any girl in this place and have 10 on the go txting me for sex as it is) does the exact same thing.

        Your internal frame of outcome dependence/independence changes all your actions/responses and your sub-communications which has a trickle-down effect to the girl because girls base how to feel off their environment and the stronger frame around them.

        So essentially yes, what you think in your head IS the difference between being an Orbiter and a Seducer.

        Now being a Keyboard Jockey on the other hand…well, I’ll let you fill us in on your area of expertise with that one.


      • Sure, that’s a method of approaching it. But it means you’re going to end up with a lot of average chicks. Which is fine…not everyone wants to climb Mount Everest. As long as you’re happy, you do your thing.

        But you’re not sticking your dick in this:

        …without playing a few games. And when you’re confident, socially savvy, and flirty, that’s all it is: a silly little game. Nothing to stress over or get all “I don’t care what that bitch looks like, don’t waste my life show me the damned pussy grrrrrr!!!!!!!” about lol

        Incidentally that girl and I now have a Day 2 lined up for next week. The games are too much for me for anything long-term, but I’ll probably make her a fuckbuddy.


      • Those skinny bleached blonde girls look over 21 YaReally. To each his own taste, but as examples of the best a man can get, that photo goes against CH’s classic Alpha of the Month example, where the 18 year old a teacher in California got was more like what most men want

        Take a look at the girl in the photos there. She was an adoring virgin. That fits the bill.

        I also prefer Zombie Shane’s ideals of Jane Mansfield and Raquel Welch.

        This reminds me of your unnecessary campaign against men dating overseas where you can sometimes see armies of Jane Mansfields walking around. Not all alphas want what you showed in that photo.

        Besides the heavier overseas concentration of what some of us prefer, overseas men don’t get arrested for dating virgins like in the above Alpha of the Month post. Teachers don’t have to worry about being arrested either. In Germany, the public is torn about a case where a teacher had sex with a 14 year old student. They are wondering about whether he should have been fired or not. You can say that Germany is extreme, but, in places like that, alphas won’t get arrested for sleeping with 17 year olds who lie to them about their age in order to get alpha cock. So your idea that alphas will tend to stay in the US isn’t logical or realistic.

        I can tell you that, outside of the US, I have never met a fuckable woman who would try baiting me along with the equivalents of honey or babe, which sounds like something a street prostitute would use on a man.

        But you’ve admitted to liking the challenge more than a low-count body, even though Amanda Marcotte wouldn’t disagree with you there.

        You have a lot of great things to say while coming across as a cross between Hank Moody of “Californication” and “The Big Lebowski”. Remember that CH wrote a great post criticizing the Hank Moody character, however. Here is the post

        Hank Moody establishes his alpha credentials in the first episode by fucking a 16 year old hard nine named Mia. But then he spends the rest of the series apologizing for this, letting Mia blackmail him and letting the female audience know that he is only really interested in having sex with women over 21. WTF?

        This blows his alpha credentials with any red pill male audience. Hank Moody, in Nevada or most other countries, could have continued to fuck Mia instead of any of the older hags he ended up chasing in the series. In fact, as long as he didn’t pay for her trips to Vegas (feminist and religious lawmakers in the US have recently allied and are doing everything they can to make it illegal to foot the bill for women), he could meet her there.

        Also, in many countries you can get a woman pregnant and not have to become a slave as a result. In California, even if you get a girl pregnant across the border in Tijuana, there is a treaty between Mexico and the state of California that will force you to pay the Mexican girl beaucoup bucks every month. So I can’t see why any alphas would stay in California unless their career is so great that they’re willing to deal with the dangers.

        An American man with a $5K per mo job in California will pay so much in taxes that he could instead be living in most other countries on $2K per month, which requires a lot less hours in the office and he will live with higher status and more luxury, while owing only social security taxes.

        In most other countries, you won’t see the race wars that Obama continues to want to foist on his white american victims. If you’re not white, I can see why you don’t want to leave the US, but there’s no need to pretend that leaving the US has anything to do with not being alpha which I’ve seen you define as not wanting to deal with the “challenge” of dating slutty feminists over 21. 😉


      • Those three bottle-blonde convention skanks are pornified (i.e., masculinized). They are hard where women should be soft, exposed where they should be modest, exaggerated where they should be subtle, aggressive where they should be submissive or passive.

        The porn generation has been taught to chase that aesthetic and to shame as gay anyone who doesn’t think those expo skin-peddlers are apex beauties. The truth is, they are examples of a enfaggened culture that grafts masculine sexuality (active, aggressive) onto technically female forms, which means that ‘mirers of pornified women are more likely to be latently gay than those of us who are put off by desperate exhibitionism.

        Not that there isn’t some good material underneath the fakery, the peroxide and the forced-nymphomania. Those girls would improve their appearance with frumpy clothes and less make-up, where their unmolested beauty could be appreciated in contrast, rather than a cartoonish hyper-emphasis on the individual components of beauty (eye shadow is good, more eye shadow is better!) while neglecting the holistic aura (feminine nuance vs. the in-your-face stripper). The whole is less than the sum of its parts, there is none of the unity that comeliness requires.

        So, the girls are pretty — and there is nothing more tiresome than 2/10 internet nitpicking about static JPGs. But the aesthetic YaReally is pushing is not pretty, in fact it takes away from feminine attractiveness. It’s masculine.



      • “But you’re not sticking your dick in this:”

        YaReally, I have to agree with Matt, those are pretty skanky girls. Those are not regular girls who subtly flirt and play, and like to be pursued by a guy they fancy. These girls’ job is sex. How hard is it for you to sleep with them? Those are the bar sluts we’re always saying don’t need much gaming.

        [CH: Maybe they’re skanky, but they’re also sexy as balls and totally fuckable, unless you want to argue that the average American woman looks like that. Which they don’t. So don’t bother.]


      • C’mon, those 3 blondes are smoking. I don’t think they appear masculine at all.
        I would even hesitate to call them “bar sluts”. A bar slut to me is like a 33 yr old Puerto Rican that screams obnoxiously into her pay per minute cell phone and loves to get WIIIIILD on Friday nights at Applebee’s. Those blondes are probably a lot harder to coax into bed then you think. Just because they’re hanging in bars and clubs doesn’t mean their easy, it just means they’re attention whores like all women are.


      • Girls like that who are paid to string along guys and sell products are somehow easier to game? These are the ‘drunk bar sluts?’ In other news, up has now become down.


      • so much lol

        As I was googling for a pic to link, I thought to myself “self, why are you including a pic? You know the 2/10 pointy elbowers are just going to come out of the woodwork.”

        3 things:

        1) these chicks represent girls who’s job it is to sell sex. They have hundreds of guys a night trying to bang them and failing, blowing hundreds if not thousands on them just for their attention and the remote chance of sticking their dick in them, and they’re socialized, flirty, and surrounded by better looking and richer men than you’ll ever be. Now whether you like brunettes or girls wearing sweater-vests or getting 14yo girls preggers (dude, wtf was your creepy-ass reply about?), doesn’t really matter. The point is that these types of girls represent the types that you will never get near or be able to land in real life.

        2) it’s a random google image of random women, to make a point about how some of us are going for girls who don’t look as average or live in the same average world the completely average “10/10” coffee shop girl (that you can see HUNDREDS of in any average bar on any given night). I’m not trying to link you your jack-off material for the evening lol

        3) the 3 people responding are a strange expat pedophile, Matthew King the eBadass, and a girl who thinks it’s easy to fuck hired guns because she’s a dude who’s banged a bunch of them and they obviously suck a bunch of cock in the bathroom on their breaks from work.

        Like I say, so much lol


      • @ CH,
        But that’s not my point. I’m not saying they’re not fuckable. They are totally fuckable, because they are thin and madeup. And, of course most women don’t look like this, unfortunately. So, I understand your lamentations. But, it’s not that hard if women take the time to do this. A woman who has somewhat of a nice figure and a nice face, and she keeps herself thin and in shape,and does her hair and makeup can look hot. Yareally picks up in bars, because he says women will doll up to go to bars. I think he once said women look their hottest in bars or the day they get married. He’s right.

        But, that’s not the point Matt was making. He was saying that despite their hotness, these girls are not the epitome of femininity. He was criticizing their behavior, not their looks.

        @ Cryo
        Assuming they are not professional models who are selling stuff for some joint in NYC, I’m not sure how hard you have to work to bed barsluts. They look like bartenders or servers to me. Is it hard bedding girls that serve drinks in clubs???

        But, I don’t think that’s what Yareally meant anyway. I think he just wanted to show an example of hot girls that are worth bedding, and you need to play mindgames and/or engage in heavy flirting to sleep with them.


      • Damn, brother, I had my fingers crossed on this one. Almost went an entire post (albeit a brief one for you) without resorting to your usual limp parting shot.


      • YaReally, now you’re being a dishonest asshole.

        Forget the fact that your 3 chestless skanks are less than average looking and, if CH thinks they are hot like you do, you guys BOTH need to travel some. I’ll stick with those who look like the 18 year old CH referred to in that Alpha of the Month post I linked to above. Or I’ll take a Jane Mansfield (who lost her head) or Raquel Welch, Natalie Wood or Sophie Loren or Ursula Andress. You’re bizarre to pretend that the rest of us are lying when we tell you that the above trio do NOT attract us at all. They really don’t. It’s also bizarre to suggest that such chestless skanks would be all that hard to get if we who like full breasts bothered to try.

        But aside from that you, like a typical left winger, just lied a lot worse to get out of a reasonable discussion.

        I wrote that, whereas the 40 year old teacher in California got a lot of flak because he shacked up with an 18 year old student from his school (he was no pedophile and you can ask CH to confirm that those who do that kind of shaming are white knights of the worst kind), in Germany you will never have that problem because the Germans don’t even think 14 is criminal.

        If you have any reading comprehension, that doesn’t mean I was saying 14 was OK to seduce. I was saying that the pro-male German attitude means that it is OK to sleep with someone who lies to an alpha that she’s 18 but is really 17 or 16. You’ve got a buffer in countries outside the US. In the US you have absolutist laws that allow girls to lie to you and show you fake IDs and you still go to jail.

        In this you’ve shown yourself to be a feminist’s dream PUA, a white knight like Hank Moody.

        You prefer “challenging” women over 21. You’ve written before that you find women 18 and 19 boring.

        That isn’t so alpha.

        You write some usable stuff but your taste in older bar sluts means that I would never be jealous of the used baggage you pick up.

        You’re like that famous game writer whose initials were DD or something, who recently married a 37 year old 4, which was mighty politically correct of him to do, considering that a lot of his game advice, like yours, was fairly sound.


      • The nonsensical and arrogant “pointy elbows” theme is uninteresting in and of itself. If PUAs like David Dangelo or some guys on this forum want to pretend that “everyone secretly desires” the type of skinny skank in the photos (or other recent videos YaReally posted of supposedly hot women), I and other breast and leg men will just let that slide because the advice thrown about here is often quite useful for when we meet really hot women. It’s interchangeable advice and YaReally sounds like the perfect wingman because he and his buddy would likely not target the same women.

        Never mind that this type of convention girl, if I deign to talk with her, will tell me she wants breast implants.every.single.time.

        What I was noting was that YaReally uses this “all guys secretly want the older self-entitled night club skanks” bullshit to suggest that men who leave the Trevor Martin States of America aren’t as alpha as the suckers who stay.

        That’s what he sees as pointy elbows syndrome. It’s so incredibly wrong.

        It reminds me of that Twilight Zone episode “Beauty Is In the Eye of the Beholder” when a hot woman finds herself in a world where everyone thinks she’s ugly and they are all great looking. Except here you’ll get “Here’s what you really want” at the shocking end of a thread.

        (We also know YaReally can’t afford to travel. He is a Democrat who is proud to ride the bus everywhere while he carries a thousand pound chip on his shoulder about rich men in his area getting women because of their money. That doesn’t take away from his other good advice. It’s helpful to see a man game women with a severe handicap even if he does only get skanks).

        The feminists are in agreement with this unnecessary hatred of men who might reject the urban American “whites as a minority” night club scene and not in a “broken clock is right twice a day” sense. The feminists have consistently said that men who travel are losers who only say they “don’t like American women” (a conflation) but who would supposedly jump at the chance to get into bed with Amanda Marcotte if they were given the chance. Again, this is a Twilight Zone way of thinking but it assuages the helpless (rejected US feminists and guys who can’t afford more than a bus ticket). They can pretend that we really want their sorry world.

        Consider this. Feminists wouldn’t feel threatened by a PUA scene that gathers to figure out how to get those mid-twenties convention women. Otherwise they would make laws against it. If feminists howl, that’s when you know they’re hurting.


      • @ Lily – Yes, I would say it is hard to pull girls of the caliber in that photo. Consider this: most of the guys gunning for those chicks are either super high-value with wealth and status or very confident men with adequate game. That’s about three percent of the male population in any given region. Of that small percentage, an even smaller fraction is going to make a significant impression on them, because their beauty has exposed them to relentless male attention and orbiting. I know that I could interact with that set in a positive alpha manner, but in no way do I think it would be easy to close the deal. An even if they are “sluts”, they still are only sluts for the right man.

        @ Anonymous Guy Who Keeps Trying to Front Like He Doesn’t Want to Hit It

        – Dude, regardless of what your ideal 18 yr old HB 11 looks like, those 3 blondes are the cream of the crop when it comes to girls you want to throw down and fuck like a porn star. Maybe not marriageable, but this whole discussion sprouted from a post about dealing with shit tests from girls we want to fuck. Your tangential threads are irrelevant. I have a feeling if you came to face to face with those three blondes you’d be reduced to a stammering mess. They are, to quote Raymond Chandler, blondes “to make a priest kick a hole through a stained glass window”.


      • @Anonymous

        Your rants are surreal and amazing lol I don’t even have a response because there’s so much randomness packed into one comment. Please keep posting lol


      • @Anonymous

        “if CH thinks they are hot like you do, you guys BOTH need to travel some.”

        I think most men get turned on by hair and makeup, and by women with hot bodies who strip to almost nothing and show their assets, to pay too much attention to the details. These girls are pretty and bangable, but if you pay close attention you’ll notice they are all bleached (so half their hair has broken off, and it’s why they don’t have a full thick head of hair), they get tanned at the tanning salon (which is why their skin looks saggy already), use lots of make up, and the one on the left probably had a boob job. From all 3 of them, only the one on the right is genuinely pretty. The other two really look like used and abused skanks, and have the shelf life of another 5 years at best. It’s proven scientifically that men don’t notice the particulars; they look at the whole woman. If she looks good enough to fuck, they consider her hot. Many men go gaga over a 5 or a 6. I think you and Matt are a little bit more demanding. You expect a woman to be genuinely pretty; not just sexy. You pay attention to the nitty gritty, which is why you’re not that impressed with this merchandise.


      • This is why The scale is necessary. People just rationalize any and everything. Most guys wish they could snag a 6-6.5 like that 18 year old, sure. But lol, c’mon….how could anyone say that these three turbo hotties (really it’s the two on the right) dominate in whatever competition the (or any) 6-6.5 gives?


      • No. This is still that episode of “The Twilight Zone”. Those flat chested skanks would not reduce any man I’ve ever known to bother talking with them, much less fall into a stammering mess. Not in “The Daylight Zone”. They wouldn’t even be good candidates for breast implants. Nothing to work with.

        Maybe guys who ride the bus and live with roommates, like YaReally, don’t have better options than this.

        You know, the type of guy who thinks he’s alpha because he can write LOL.

        But even in the US, younger hotter and tighter passes by on the street every few minutes. Between the time I wrote the last comment and this, without even trying and mainly because she was flirting with me, I nonchalantly number closed a 23 year old who was way better than those pictures. She would be in line behind five or six younger women who connected with me in the last two weeks, meaning she’s probably not going to get a call but maybe a maintenance text. From my point view, there is no excuse for someone I’m supposed to be getting advice from showing mid-twenties concentration camp victims and arrogantly claiming them to be the kind of woman any alpha wants. It’s just too easy even for an upper beta to get someone better any day. Unless your region of the US has gone too far over to the fatties.

        It sounds like some of you guys are out in a desert and thirsting for whatever isn’t fat.

        Reading YaReally comments is just like reading David D’Angelo. He wrote well but he didn’t marry the sorority girl his PUA talents should have afforded him. Low self esteem operating? Something to do with being attracted only to women in the same IQ range? I don’t know what’s going on here.

        There’s talent but no desire to go after any real prizes.

        YaReally, you write well like DD did but you might want to raise your standards and recognize, at the same time, that you will have gray hair in two years (you’re 33 right?) and you will be an old man in the time it’s taken since the 911 terror attacks (which happened yesterday it seems). Soon, you’ll finally have a job, you will have some sugar babies mixed in with your regular girlfriends and you’ll be casually lying about your age when you first meet anyone under 21. You will be doing a lot better than you are doing now and you will be embarrassed by a lot of the arrogant criticism you once gave to your betters on this forum.

        Oh, and you won’t be leaving condom wrappers on the floor between visits. The girls you graduate to fucking will have more class than to put up with that.

        Your standards will rise when you get a job. Believe me. Been there, done that. Unemployed bar-hopping guys under 35 don’t have standards.

        So you can lay off the credibility reducing examples of what you consider hot now and lay off the unnecessary Marxist-style campaign against James Bond lifestyles of travel and Bond Girls along with your chip on your shoulder campaign against wealth and its obvious influence on sexual variety. You sound like Lady MacBeth when you doth protest so much against money.


      • Sorry, example photos are obviously OK for anyone to post but I meant we can all lay off trying to tell other guys that they’re secretly attracted to flat chests (but denying it for some reason) and spreading the pro-feminist nonsense that an upper beta or lower alpha can’t do better in the numerous regions of the world where there are higher concentrations of busty non-entitled low-count women than in the urban US, despite a rapid Americanization of the world brought by access to faster Internet over the last decade.

        That kind of bickering is unnecessary and it’s happened too many times here. You’d think CH would have an FAQ. It wastes all of our time when we’re told we’re supposed to want mature, “challenging” women and live like happy “alphas” under feminist law-making while, to continue the process of the feminization of the US, the University of Connecticut just announced today that professors (men with status) are no longer allowed to have relations with any undergrad students at all. (What else is new, right? But understand that it would be earth shattering news in most other countries.)

        I ranted above because I’d recently seen too many photo examples of what young “alphas” who stay in the American night club scene are apparently getting for their efforts. I know they share the feminist hatred of men with actual objective status, while setting a low looks bar for themselves to pat themselves on the back for achieving.

        I know that life and the quality of women are so much better when they grow up and see the world a bit (even if they come back from somewhere else but with a new perspective).

        There’s still a lot to learn from younger arrogant guys who frequent the night club scene. I wouldn’t be reading the comment section if it were all just bluster.


      • Cryo wrote:

        Consider this: most of the guys gunning for those chicks are either super high-value with wealth and status or very confident men with adequate game. That’s about three percent of the male population…

        The best you can say about that trio of tawny Tyffanees is that they are advertising their sexuality so brazenly that any attempt to game them must be equally forthright. And you are correct, the brazenness (and skill/status) required to knock them out of their professional frame would only be found in a small percentage of the male population.

        Further, YaReally can be forgiven for his choice of picture. It is optically impossible to capture a universally agreed upon example of a ten — which is why I noted the inevitability of the 2/10 Would Not Bang crowd showing up to further cloud the issue.

        But all of that is beside the point.

        When searching for a representation of a female beauty ideal, it is telling that we believe a picture of three expo-hos is the common language of men. They’re just not. As I tried to explain, there is nothing wrong with the girls so much as there is something very wrong with the worship of that aesthetic.

        If you’ve gotten up close and personal with chicks like them, you realize they’re essentially bluffing men into idolatry with shiny objects. They are no sexier than girls with more modest tastes and a sense of dignity, it’s just that the world gets a preview of what she’ll look like after you round first base with them.

        In other words, presenting women like that as examples of apex beauty is more about falling for their bluff and promoting a false ideal. The real aesthetic can’t be captured or exemplified by a photo. So all that remains in the end are the dregs of a fake standard against which superficial big-talkers deign to judge other men’s taste as objectively lacking.

        You don’t think they’re hottt?!?! There must be something wrong with you! Maybe. Or there is something wrong with mistaking the preponderance of skin and exaggerated augmentation as the universal standard of beauty. That’s the standard I used when gawking at the SI Swimsuit Issue with a flashlight under a blanket was all I knew about girls.



      • “Either show me the damned pussy, or get the hell outta my way so that I can find me a chick who will.”

        “Me, I’m still something of a romantic – more of a “Love at First Sight” kinduva guy.”

        And those two statements fit together, you think?

        No, you just want easy-to-handle girls. Easy-to-handle usually sends you nude pics of herself and texts you for two days straight so you’ll hang out with her, because she doesn’t inspire men sexually and she has no other choice but to push her way into your bedroom. I guess, that’s what you meant by “show me the damned pussy.” You want it on a silver platter.

        Now, the “Love at First Sight” girl is going to play and flirt with you because she likes you and wants you to shower her with attention. She might play mindgames and send conflicting messages, so what are you going to say to her? “Show me the damned pussy, or get the hell outta my way so that I can find me a chick who will.” Ha, ha…….that strategy is definitely going to work. NOT! 😆


      • Damn, brother, I had my fingers crossed on this one. Almost went an entire post (albeit a brief one for you) without resorting to your usual limp parting shot.


      • Okay, too many branches on this comment tree. I give up. Durrrrrrrrr.


      • on July 25, 2013 at 3:28 pm Mr.magNIFicent1

        “enfaggened” ftw!


    • on July 24, 2013 at 6:35 pm Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM)


      da gbfm has a dataingz questioznz too!!

      suppose i is at a NYC NYC partyz

      and i relaize dat all americanz womenz are fat and sluttiez and probably not virgingzz:

      and thatz all the guyz are douchebag manboobz who think da chcix are hotz

      where does da gbfm goez 2 find ada da skinny chizkzzx??


      • on July 24, 2013 at 10:51 pm Zombie Shane

        GBFM –

        Have you ever seen the Katie Couric “dirty dancing” wedding reception pictures?

        She was acting just like what you’re seeing in those NYC shots.

        I’m not exactly sure who [in real life] that kinda behavior supposed to appeal to.

        [Other than maybe n*ggers or j*wish pornographers.]


      • Two demerits for race baiting.


      • on July 25, 2013 at 9:23 am Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM)


        zlzozozoozolzolzolz i luv me somez womenz educated womenz but only if dey are like 30 years younger and thirty pioundz lighzter zlzlzolzooz


    • CH your funny.


  2. I don’t say honey but I often call people my love. Nobody has ever complained, I didn’t realize men dislike this so much. I don’t say it to a man who I think could take it as meaning I have feelings for him, but sometimes terms of endearment come naturally.

    [CH: Some of this is cultural. In Britain it’s Ok to call an acquaintance “love”. In the US, not so much.]


    • [CH: Some of this is cultural. In Britain it’s Ok to call an acquaintance “love”. In the US, not so much.]

      Okay well in Cyprus we use many terms I use “Aghapi mou” very often which is translating to MY love. Most other people are using My baby, the man in the supermarket by me always calls me my baby. Maybe in another country it would be considered strange.
      One time out of habit I said it to an American, and he asked me what it meant. so I told him. And he said he loved it.

      So then I realized to be careful to not say it to some men as they take this meaning something more than intended.


      • and KOUKLA for a woman.. always, meaning doll.


      • on July 24, 2013 at 6:49 pm Alec Leamas

        “Doll” was a common epithet for an attractive youngish girl in the United States for a very long time, in fact I still use it in the most inappropriate of situations – at least inappropriate in the minds of your feminist-infected lady lawyer caste.


      • “at least inappropriate in the minds of your feminist-infected lady lawyer caste.”

        Hahaha.. how do they react to this?

        Here it’s normal even for women to address each other as doll. I personally don’t use this term, I prefer something from the heart like my love or my darling.


      • on July 24, 2013 at 7:13 pm Alec Leamas

        Generally it presents the opportunity to show that their feminist faux outrage is manufactured. The last time I got static for it was after a work holiday party when a few groups joined up at a dive bar. I was there with a secretary who is a solid 8.5-9 blonde, and who tried to order Veuve Clicquot from the dumpy female bartender. I kept trying to get the bartender’s attention after I called her “doll” the first time to get my drinks, and even in my inebriated state I recall her mumbling under her breath “I’m not your doll” when walking by. I do think there may have been some class anxiety expressed as part of that as well because I don’t think this bartender was quite used to men in suits as a general proposition, and she may have interpreted that as disrespect from her perceived lower class value. I don’t know, and quite frankly other than the few laughs I got out of it, I don’t care what she was thinking.


      • An older man called me a doll once. I thought it was cute- like being in the musical Guys and Dolls.

        Brando and Sinatra @ 2:20.
        “Like I told you, I am not putting the knock on dolls, it’s just that they are something to have around only when they come in handy, like cough drops.”

        One guy I work with commonly says “you’re a doll.” Is that the same as just calling someone doll? It sounded more like a compliment than a flirty endearment.


      • on July 24, 2013 at 7:59 pm Alec Leamas

        I meant more like “hey doll, how ’bout a jack rocks – and make that a double.” Sometimes if I’m going full Mad Men era asshole it’ll be “why don’t you be a little lamb and [insert request here].”

        I think “you’re a doll” is an outright compliment rather than an epithet for “girl.”


      • “You’re a doll” is alpha but not necessarily used in order to flirt with a woman. I could say that to a fat woman behind a counter so she continues to give me great non-sexual service. It’s meant to flatter regardless of sexual interest.


      • Seriously lololzzzz. Just plain funny dude. Lol


      • Okay well in Cyprus we use many terms I use “Aghapi mou” very often which is translating to MY love.

        Love to see a cognate of agápē (ἀγάπη) from my Ancient Greek used in everyday contemporary conversation. Apart from the texts (of course) and some crumbling marble on the Acropolis, it’s all that still lives out of the fecund womb of Western Civilization. The tongue of Solon, Socrates, Thucydides, and Aristophanes. Hotttt. Whisper it in my ear. Better than French.

        Are there any conversational forms of eros or philos?



      • Yes. If you are in love with somebody you call them “Erwta mou” pronounced EH-RO-TAH mou.

        for a friend you call them “File mou”, my friend.

        this is a beautiful song called “ΕΡΩΤΑ ΜΟΥ ΑΓΙΑΤΡΕΥΤΕ ” My incurable love.


    • on July 25, 2013 at 12:14 am Hugh G. Rection

      I always use “sugartits”.


      • +111

        Mel Gibson for president, just for popularizing that perfect appellation. The Jẽw-hate is a bonus.


      • Umlaut, macron, grave or acute,
        I’ve got a perfect puzzle for you.
        Diaeresis, circumflex, breve,
        If you are wise you’ll listen to me.

        What do you use when two vowels are discrete?
        Which diacritic changes vowel quality?
        When can you circumflex the antepenult?
        Can you make any sense of Blue Öyster Cult?

        I don’t think ASCII can do that.

        Umlaut, macron, diaeresis,
        You had better be minding your glyphs,
        You will live in happiness too,
        Like the Finnish polymaths do,


      • Now you’ve just made me look mad, CH.


      • on July 26, 2013 at 9:22 am Hugh G. Rection

        Sweet Cheeks is also great.


      • on July 25, 2013 at 1:54 pm The Spirit Within

        I angered a vicious land whale once by calling her that sarcastically. It fit the context of the discussion, actually, but she didn’t care, and flamed me in our newsgroup for weeks, and eventually got me kicked out.

        The cunt was strong in that one.


  3. on July 24, 2013 at 2:29 pm logicwontgetmelaid

    I was banging a girl and she started in with the “babes”. I never acknowledged it, negatively or positively. We drifted apart shortly after the “babes” began. I guess I should have thrown her a babe bone, or maybe thrown it in her face as described above? I remember reading about never using the obvious pet names on here, which made sense to me – keeps the interest differential in your favor. I don’t know, not too good with women past the two month mark yet…


  4. Cute bartenders & waitresses do this all the time, of course, and they’re ALL super flirts. It’s an easy way to build comfort with the customer (attraction is already there) and thereby increase tips. Also helpful since they don’t have to be as good at remembering names if you’re not a regular.

    On the other hand, in the South, for example, this kind of thing is pretty routine. The old lady behind the counter at the diner calls everyone “sugar” or something like that. At some point, it’s just an automatic thing to say.


    • Strippers also use “babe” and “honey” all the time, probably for the same reason. It builds rapport with the customer and she doesn’t have to remember names. Successful strippers are masters of using fake indicators of interest on guys they are trying to get money out of.


      • “Strippers also use “babe” and “honey” all the time, probably for the same reason. It builds rapport with the customer and she doesn’t have to remember names.”

        These are the reasons I call all girls “babe” lol. Unless they earn a unique nickname, but usually I stick with babe (said in a very casual tone, like I’ve known her for years, VS a douchey try-hard tone).

        Treating a girl you’ve just met as if she was your girlfriend of 5 years has an interesting effect…”what you feel, she feels” and all. The downside is it encourages relationshippy behavior/ideas/expectations on her end so I calibrate using it to the girl’s personality and what my end-goal is.

        I’ve banged girls (one night stands and multiple bangs over a few months) without actually knowing (or in some cases even asking) their name lol. It’s really not that important.


  5. Muffinpants, you hit the nail on the head with this one.


  6. Wow, I don’t think either word is meant to get the guy to chase. I think it’s a huge indicator of non-interest. Like a girl who seems too comfortable around you… no sexual tension.

    I’ve been accused of being an incorrigible flirt and I’ve never used either (unless in a relationship). Those are very dominant words to use with a guy if you’re flirting.


    • Exactly, she’s feels comfortable using these terms, because you don’t make her uneasy at all. She’s just showing off, or trying to get you to do some favor for her.


  7. on July 24, 2013 at 2:50 pm Cragsleeper

    Both “honey” and “babe” come off as her trying to talk down to me. At least that’s the context I’ve heard them in.

    [CH: Girl friends of a man’s girlfriend will sometimes use terms like “honey” when referring to him because they secretly desire him and are ashamed of it, so the terms of cutesiness help to create some sexual distance between him and girl buddies.]


    • on July 24, 2013 at 4:54 pm Brononymous

      “Both “honey” and “babe” come off as her trying to talk down to me. At least that’s the context I’ve heard them in.”

      I’d agree. There’s no sexual heat if she’s using casual terms like that.

      The only casual term you want to generate is her Freudian Slip of ‘Daddy’, complete with her dawning, embarrassed realisation of what she just said. Once I’ve generated that response, sex is a foregone conclusion.


      • I thought this too for quite sometime, but then I slept with a girl very easily who was calling me honey. Her personality in general was kind of ghetto/harsh and normally I’m not attracted to girls like that, but she made it readily available so I went with it. Thus, a girl might be interested in sex if she’s using this language.


      • That brings up a more interesting topic, what a woman means by calling you “Sir” or using, in another language, the polite form too long. 😉

        It doesn’t mean you’re going to be locked out. But it is quite a shit test.

        I pass the Sir test by grinning and saying “What do you mean by sir?” which provides a good opportunity to learn, in a good humored manner, whether the woman is one of the 40% who can’t handle older men as sex partners or one of the 60% who can.

        Obviously Babe or Hun are shit tests themselves, at least in terms of the recipient being warned to react or forever hold his piece (misspelling intended).


  8. I use these terms of endearment with my kids, not men I find attractive. They are not meant sexually, when spoken by a woman.


  9. Ever read Vin DiCarlo’s “Pandora’s Box”? She’s the classic ‘Playette’ or as Heartiste calls it, “Eternal Ingenue.”

    Playettes and Social Butteflys cause the most headaches out of all the other types. These chicks are always testing for new men and even when she’s found her ideal, she will still be on the lookout for more.

    They are still very alluring because more often than not, both of those psychological profiles mostly consist of young women. Think 18-24.


    • on July 24, 2013 at 10:38 pm Zombie Shane

      > “the classic ‘Playette’”

      If you posit that a natural Player – to whom the underlying nihilism of “Game” comes instinctively, without even having to think about it] – that a natural Player must have a “Dark Triad” sociopathic personality, then it seems that you’d have to assume that a natural Playette would have to be a sociopath as well.

      And when I wrote above about shark-eyed reptilian personalities, “sociopath” might very be a pretty darned good description of what I’ve seen over the years.

      The really weird thing is that I never got the feeling that these chicks were even remotely interested in anything like, say, getting laid [the way that a nymphomaniac would be], but rather that they seemed to be interested in achieving CONTROL.

      “Control” over what, and “Control” for what reason, I don’t know.

      But given female behavior in general, one obvious answer would be, “Money FTW!”, yet even that doesn’t feel quite right – it always seemed like they were looking for control over a whole helluva lot more than just your wallet.

      I mean, when she’s standing there in front of you, and you realize that you’re staring into the eyes of a chick who’s got a great big empty black hole where her heart ought to be – like I said above – that shit can send a chill down your spine.


      Steer clear.

      Me, I prefer just a little basic human warmth and empathy and compassion in my bitches.


  10. Her: “Thanks for giving me two 40-second orgasms in one session, babe!”

    Me: “My pleasure, my bitch. I was thinking about untying you, but I think I’ll just roll you over.”


  11. There is a difference between “honey” and “babe.” A somewhat shy/nice girl who likes you (would let you have sex with her if all goes well) will sometimes call you “honey” trying to be cute like it’s already an LTR. To determine if this is the case, notice whether she bats her eyelashes flirtingly while saying it. “Babe,” on the other hand is either for friendzone OR for a BF where it’s already an LTR with regular sex.


    • I had sex with a girl who began calling me honey upon first meeting, so I agree with that analysis. I don’t think I’ve ever had a girl call me babe, so can’t comment there.


  12. A girl I’m interested in recently sent me a text message addressing me as “hun”. My initial impression was that I was now as attractive to her as the common cold. “Hun” or “honey” should be for established relationships or friends only.

    Oh well, I just sent her the “gay” message due to her flakiness. I crack myself up.


  13. God damn this shit used to annoy me back when I was in Uni! I’d totally forgot about it. I reckon that they grow out of it eventually, but either way, thanks for the comeback, CH.


  14. I will just leave this here:

    Direct link to video:


    • on July 24, 2013 at 6:39 pm Syd Barrett

      Damn it, beat me to it !


    • on July 24, 2013 at 7:20 pm suppressedtruthsociety

      Did she give birth at 1:42?


    • I’m surprise that there isn’t write up on here yet about this. Crazy!!!


    • She’s got a better body than most wives. I enjoyed watching those legs kick up. The cigarettes and time has a clock ticking on it though. You can tell the guy probably isn’t a beta.


      • She only starts to calm down (at least partially) on 2:20-2:30 after he says she’s acting like an 11-year-old who didn’t get a toy from WalMart. The power of the straight-talkin’ neg.


    • This is the same mentality all women have and they get the kids after no fault divorce. No lol zzz


    • The universal response:

      In contrast, the car-riding hubby was pussy for stoking the panic attack like a dickhead little brother (and a complete child for posting it to the world) rather than being the calming influence in the relationship. As Connery all but says, a single slap is the most potent medicine. It jolts her back to center, rather than spinning off like a top into outer space.

      It’s obvious that what started as mental anguish became physical in the young wife, and anyone who hasn’t encountered and learned to pivot that brand of hysterics into something healthy is a man of little experience and skill.



      • “In contrast, the car-riding hubby was pussy for stoking the panic attack like a dickhead little brother (and a complete child for posting it to the world) rather than being the calming influence in the relationship. As Connery all but says, a single slap is the most potent medicine. It jolts her back to center, rather than spinning off like a top into outer space.”

        This. This is the oak tree squirrel thing. Learning to deal with stuff like this forges you into the kind of guy who goes “Shhhht.” and gives her “the look” and shuts her up because your frame of “No. This isn’t happening.” is stronger than hers.

        This guy got sucked into her drama. He let her set the frame and then while he didn’t try to appease her by taking her to the lake, the fact that he was even reacting to it and taking jabs and stoking the fire is all him being sucked into her frame of “drama is happening”.

        And because she’s been taught by his actions that “this is how to get attention and get what I want and get my emotional rollercoaster”, that’s how she acts and over time it escalates.

        Dog Whisperer teaches all this shit. Lol


      • You slap her?

        What happens if you break her beautiful nose or her straight white teeth, what then? She’s toothless and bruised, to say the least. And, what the hell are you going to tell her father afterwards?

        Is violence really a good idea, Matt?


      • Well, that would lower her SMV relative to mine, which gives me even more power, right? Violence, is there anything it can’t do?


      • Lily, your concern is either contrived trolling, or it betrays a basic ignorance of how one slaps or is slapped. Tip: as opposed to punches, you do not want to lean into the slap. Hold still if inexperienced, but it’s better if you slightly angle your cheek so the palm of his hand connects with the most satisfying possible noise.


      • Is violence really a good idea, Matt?

        (Affable smile draining from face.) Mm. Yeah. Haven’t changed my opinion. Not a’tall.

        The man even said it wouldn’t be a closed fist. Let us note for the record that you fantasized for more.

        The violence is about control. When women are in the physical grip of hysterics, commanding calm in them is an act of charity.

        “Tell her father”? What father? If she even had one, he’d egg me on.

        The ones with dads hardly fathom riling a man to this point. They grew up knowing the danger of grabbing a bull by its horns.

        Tell me about your daddy.



      • That is my favorite movie in the world. Have you noticed that it derives much from Proverbs 31? Even to such details as the wife’s purple dress and the name of the town carriage driver being Lem.


    • staged.


  15. on July 24, 2013 at 6:37 pm Max from aust

    This happens to me regularly. Lately I have been instantly esculating kino and attempting a k close so she knows I am after her. If she blocks walk away like a gentleman. Next


    • You’re not Next’ing them, they’re Next’ing YOU.

      Do the same thing you’re doing now, going for the kiss early, but learn how to calibrate and if she isn’t receptive, pull back, smooth it over, build more comfort/rapport, spike her attraction again, and then try going for the kiss again. Rinse, repeat until you get the kiss and are able to turn their initial rejections around faster and more efficiently and eventually not get the rejections at all.

      You’re just playing a numbers game if you walk away when she snubs you. Push for 5 snubs before you walk away lol


  16. That’s interesting that you think that she’s trying to string you along. I kind of doubt it though; it seems more likely that she just considers you a friend. There would have to be a lot more ingénue behavior.

    When a guy calls a girl “honey” or “dear,” is it alpha or no? And do guys call girls endearing names while they are trying to flirt with a girl, or is this a sign that they are not really interested in the girl?


  17. on July 24, 2013 at 7:36 pm Alec Leamas

    I like the reframe to cast the cutesy woman as the aggressor.

    Perhaps the better reframe is to pretend (in your mind) that she’s your little tagalong sister and treat her that way? When I’m in a playful back and forth with a woman and I’m at a loss to read mixed signals, sometimes I’ll slightly exaggeratedly sniff the air near her and make a face as if I smelled something unpleasant. It’s an excuse for a lapse in the conversation (I’ve been distracted because I’ve been smelling something) and at the same time it makes the woman doubt herself because no girl is hot in her own mind if she thinks people are blaming her for an odious fart. It’s sort of a neg, I suppose, and at the same time it is a DHV/qualifier because no pedestalizing beta would call a hot girl out on farting in public. A beta would probably want to bottle her farts for later. Many times you’ll get a physical response that is an indication of attraction, like a playful punch or slap on the shoulder and some laughing. At least you’re out of that mind-numbing holding pattern.

    I suppose if the girl actually farted recently or has had gas problems you run the risk of totally fucking up the whole situation because she’ll not be up to the exchange of attraction cues if she’s truly self-conscious about smelling bad.


  18. I’ve found “cutesy mode” (as you put it) to be quite effective when you use it on a girl yourself. I find that words like sweetheart and darling, when used passively and dismissively, can really shift the power dynamic in your favour pretty quickly. Girls eat that shit up.

    The vocal tone with which you say it is extremely important though; you need to be sure you pull it off. It has to come off as a genuinely casual sentence. You have to assume the masculine authority to the point that you can use such intimate words in a casual manner.


  19. Omega male lifetime achievement award candidates at 3:04.



  20. I had a chick orbiter who used to call me “sweetie”. Since she was below my pay grade, I friend zoned her (also thinking that she thought of me as a friend cause “sweetie”). Once I tried to do actual friend-like stuff with her like inviting her out with other girls, she bailed out completely.

    This makes me think the sweetie stuff was her trying to down play her attraction to me but she wasn’t able to walk the walk.


  21. Heartiste,

    Wouldn’t you say that once a girl starts the mindgames she already considers you inferior? Or do girls also play mindgames with betas?


    • on July 24, 2013 at 10:45 pm suppressedtruthsociety

      I think “mind game” is a little overly dramatic. Some girls just love the endless attention they can get by solidifying a herd of beta orbiters, and the best way to accomplish that is to act flirty with pretty much all guys.


      • on July 24, 2013 at 10:48 pm suppressedtruthsociety

        I speak from a wealth of experience, by the way, having been a professional beta orbiter back before my discovery of this material.


    • Best to think of it as a shit test. A shit test that the woman is always and forever deploying on every man who crosses her path.


      • This.

        Basically the hotter she is, the more she needs to know that she can’t control you and that you are congruent to not giving a fuck about her silly tests. Because she can break 99.9% of the men in the world, if she’s hot enough…she can wrap them around her little finger. And if a silly little GIRL can wrap these guys around her finger, how the fuck are they supposed to handle the world for the two of them if he can’t even stand up to a girl?

        So when she meets the one guy she CAN’T control, that tells her this is a guy who can take on the world. But anyone can fake it once or twice…she needs to keep testing him to make sure that he’s that man.

        So in a way, whether her calling you “honey” means she’s into you or friend-zoned you, is irrelevant. It’s all a green light.

        The biggest mistake men make is thinking that their value remains where it was when they met the girl. Like they passed a few tests and now they’re “done”…but your value will fluctuate for the rest of your life. And if it gets low enough, her Hypergamy and opportunity will ensure she cheats on you.

        So build a strong foundation and don’t slack off. Don’t become the beer-belly couch potato “yes, dear… :(” beta loser failing her tests will turn you into. Grow more solid as a man every day, and look at these tests as an opportunity to grow a stronger frame. Down the road if you meet a girl who doesn’t test as much, you will be that much more solid to her. You are the oak tree, she’s the little squirrel scurrying about.


      • Ya Really beeg genius. “It’s all a green light.” Cosmic! I can see the stars even from the Subway! Also “mistake that value remains” is sharp too.


      • YR, what about petty tests like asking you to hold her bag while she tries on a dress? I tend to think it’s overly doctrinaire to deny little shit like that, but it’s hard to differentiate in the moment.


      • OK, great. I’ll hold dresses but not handbags, per your advice. I have a skit ready for it. “It’s a uterus! I can’t hold a uterus in public!”

        What do you think, womant’s?


  22. […] Dealing With Cutesy Chicks […]


  23. You guys are missing the moral of the story; let me help you out. I flirt with chicks the same way that this guy describes chicks driving him nuts, and it is a winning strategy that never contradicts itself; chicks that I don’t even know, I call them babe and tell them I had come there to see them, and they eat it up.


  24. Women playing mind games? To play mind games, don’t you have to have a mind?


  25. What do you guys think of “did I promise you anything?” (Alpha smirk)

    I’m a longtime fan of the challenge on MTV and I heard CT use that on a recent episode.


  26. In womanese:

    Later = Never

    If she really wants to meet you again she asks for a more concrete time to be set.


  27. Presently, these girls and their games are Scraybane. Unlike drunk girls, the false IOI’s have the patina of sincerity. Unlike party girls, the social skill seems to be brought out by me — though this is also false. And last —so…goddamned…hot.

    And….I want to bring down a Cockteasasaurus.
    Just gotta do it. Get that poon or die cuntin’.



    “For women throughout history (and prehistory), the odds of reproducing have been pretty good. Later in this talk we will ponder things like, why was it so rare for a hundred women to get together and build a ship and sail off to explore unknown regions, whereas men have fairly regularly done such things? But taking chances like that would be stupid, from the perspective of a biological organism seeking to reproduce. They might drown or be killed by savages or catch a disease. For women, the optimal thing to do is go along with the crowd, be nice, play it safe. The odds are good that men will come along and offer sex and you’ll be able to have babies. All that matters is choosing the best offer. We’re descended from women who played it safe.

    For men, the outlook was radically different. If you go along with the crowd and play it safe, the odds are you won’t have children. Most men who ever lived did not have descendants who are alive today. Their lines were dead ends. Hence it was necessary to take chances, try new things, be creative, explore other possibilities. Sailing off into the unknown may be risky, and you might drown or be killed or whatever, but then again if you stay home you won’t reproduce anyway. We’re most descended from the type of men who made the risky voyage and managed to come back rich. In that case he would finally get a good chance to pass on his genes. We’re descended from men who took chances (and were lucky).”


    Most men who ever lived did not have descendants who are alive today. Their lines were dead ends.

    If that line doesn’t make you strive to be your best self, nothing will.


  29. on July 25, 2013 at 6:14 am HeManMasterofthePooniverse

    “Hey hun welcome to Raisins…”


  30. As mentioned upthread, there’s a regional angle. Southern chicks might use babe or honey freely and not as indicators of anything. So when dealing with one, calibrate accordingly.


  31. Does a wink qualify as a cutesy chick behavior? How to counter that, since it’s more plausibly deniable?


  32. My question is… WHAT GUYS DO THESE GIRLS END UP BANGING? I’m starting to think it’s not the MOST alpha guy… but the guy who is reasonably alpha/attractive and still plays their game well.


  33. on July 25, 2013 at 9:44 am Mr.magNIFicent1

    Off topic, I suppose…but is it ever really off-topic?

    This week I saw something that impacted me profoundly, though it’s consistent with all that is written here on the subject.

    I took a few minutes’ head-space break from work and looked out my window. There I saw a guy in his fashion-Harley outfit. Blonde surfer hair in a soft Mohawk, walking an obligatory, unsmiling loop through our tourist town.

    There are women who are “ok”, or “interesting”, or even kinda hot. What I saw following fashion-Harley-surfer was the kind of hot that short-circuits thought and elicits something primal and powerful. She looked like a Polynesian Gianna Michaels.

    She followed along, perhaps ten paces behind (denim shorty-shorts and a pair of those faggoty fashion-Harley chaps). I felt something like stress/shock hormones following some near-death experience, only it was purely sexual. Mohawk walked on exhibiting what I can only describe as contempt. No words. No touching. Not even a glance.

    There is a parallel universe, and it fills me with both fascination and envy. How is that opened? How is it maintained? What is Mohawk’s life? What was their first encounter? He’ll kick that to the curb and will simply get another, right?

    My life is awfully good. I got one like that many years ago, but beta’d it up, got hooked with BPD, and now it’s many years later and still going.

    Thanks, CH. I appreciate all that you do.


    • on July 25, 2013 at 10:14 am Mr.magNIFicent1

      I mean, hot like my physiology was hijacked.


    • She may well really be polynesian, in which case blond hair makes you sort of a god. Yes, womant is that dumb.

      If you have a job you can go to the Philippines, what you can get will be amazing as long as you don’t want blond kids who’ll eventually go their mother who’ll you’ll be paying to fuck someone else. There is no divorce in the Philippines, only annulment.


  34. on July 25, 2013 at 10:27 am Baddly McMannerson

    For da Heartistezz

    Im working on teh gaymes xD but i haf a question…..

    How are you supposed to escalate Kino when you are being a baddly mcmannerson all day long and being a (well-calibrated) jerk…like how do you go from a “dont give a fuck about you” to actually making the move…. i have a couple moves , but i dont wanna keep bumping chicks by playing the “champ, good sport” card too long


  35. Mixed signals send the hamster spinning. Keep up the I don’t give a fuck attitude (outcome independence), and just initiate the first stages of kino.

    Tell her “It would never work out between us”. At the same time you are lightly caressing her.

    Verbal disinterest, with simultaneous physical interest = gina tingle.

    Just because you are outcome independent, doesn’t mean that you don’t try to take what you want. It doesn’t mean that you don’t want anything. It just means that you can take it or leave it, without a second thought, or emotional distress.


  36. Dr. Eric is right. Maybe she has worked in a southern Waffle House. All men get the ‘Honey’ and ‘Babe’ treatment there.


  37. One of my FWB’s calls me “Mister”. And I like it.

    respect > cuteness


  38. Whenever little girls flirt with me (a lot) I respond by sneering or rolling my eyes.

    Talking is the worst pickup technique there is, even when it works it sucks because you are talking to an adult with the mind of an 8 year old.


    • girls = fatties or uggos

      Or you don’t go out much and don’t like to socialize with people.



      • girls = young

        You’re right, I hate going out and I hate socializing, don’t like sex much either. Half the time I give her two and roll over without coming.

        But I’m handsome and full of dark triady goodness so it happens anyway.

        My speed is more like picking them up or tickling them until they fall down then getting on top and dry humping them until they orgasm.

        Or I say “I want to fuck the shit out fo you”

        That’s my game, say and do whatever is on my mind.

        Your game = gab like a gay barber hoping someone will like you