What To Do When A Woman Switches Gears On You

“Gear switching” is a common female manipulative tactic that is very good at tripping up less experienced men. You can tell it’s happening when one minute a woman is seemingly signaling her romantic interest, and the next she’s taunting you for thinking you’re in her league.

Reader “Jaki” offers a case study of female gear switching,

Very common shit test i encounter:
she gives me a smiley either online or face to face, then:
Me: “its gonna take more than a smile to sweep me off my feet” – or along those lines – assuming the sale, that she wants to
Her: “who said i wanna do that?”

how to proceed? thx

First, never respond to a female gear switch with indignation or apologia. It doesn’t matter if she was serious, your job as a man is to never take her seriously, and this particularly applies to verbal detours she may pave away from the path to sex.

Gear switches are often, as in this case, reflexive chastity avowals. When a woman suddenly backtracks from a conversation that was turning sexual (or just mildly flirtatious), her behavior is best interpreted one of two ways:

1. she never envisioned you as a prospective lover and the change in your tone spooked her, or

2. she subconsciously doesn’t want to leave the impression that she’s easy.

If #1 applies to you, you’ve got your work cut out. If #2 is operative, your job is much easier, because you know there’s still interest, even if her words say otherwise. Perhaps it’s better to tell you what NOT to do, than to hand-feed you lines, so that in the future you can become a fisher of women.

ONE: Don’t apologize for your forwardness. You do that and you’re toast.
TWO: Don’t stammer about being misunderstood. Same result as above. Chicks don’t dig weaselly men.
THREE: Don’t cave to her frame, (her frame being “I am the girl, therefore I am the prize”).

Knowing what not to do is half the battle. Avoid the prostrate reactions I listed above, and the proper attitude will find a place in your id. Once you have the attitude, the effective response will come naturally.


“who said i wanna do that?”

“oops. you had me, but now you’ve lost me again.”


“who said i wanna do that?”

Ignore her, move on to a different topic.


“who said i wanna do that?”

“experience/a hunch/a funny little thing called love.”


“who said i wanna do that?”

“you’re new at this whole flirting thing, aren’t you? it shows.”


“who said i wanna do that?”

“oh, ok. take care then.”


“who said i wanna do that?”

“you protest too much.”


“who said i wanna do that?”

“three things you just did. i could tell you those three things, but maybe you’re not ready to hear so much about yourself.”


“who said i wanna do that?”

“your winning personality.”


“who said i wanna do that?”

“I dunno, but maybe next time you try not licking your lips like a hungry cat when you say that?”


I hope these responses give you an idea how to proceed with a gear switching girl. Now, none of these replies are guaranteed to work, but they are all guaranteed to improve your odds of closing the deal. The mating market is fierce, combative, and complex; improving your odds by even a small amount will exponentially improve your competitiveness in the all-against-all plunderdome of love.


  1. […] What To Do When A Woman Switches Gears On You […]


  2. I have better things to do with my time than being some girl’s dancing monkey. The last time something like this cropped up via text, my reply was “ah” … and a soft next. Silence.

    She texted me back two days later, seeking the attention she craves.


  3. Charm? Curiosity? Embarrassment?


    The response to this bullshit is “next”.

    At least in my world it is.
    I’m divorced and middle aged.

    If you don’t know it yet, middle aged women are crazy.
    All of them.
    Everything they say and do is a test.
    They can’t help it.
    I wish it weren’t true but it is and it took me a while to really figure it out.
    Asking a 40 year old woman out for a drink is like navigating a minefield.
    It gets astonishingly tiresome to deal with neurotic, insecure, demanding, massively self-important and outright cruel women.

    Fortunately, I don’t have to.
    There’s always another to date, or just pump/dump, or whatever I feel like doing.

    Sorry, but my respect for most women wouldn’t fill a thimble and it’s not my fault.

    “Who said I wanna do that?”


    [CH: your response is understandable when dealing with older women who have a fraction of their SMV remaining. but if you want to dance with a younger lass, you gotta make concessions to their desires, unless incel appeals to you.]


    • If you don’t know it yet, middle aged women are crazy.
      All of them.

      True. Heck, I won’t even consider any woman over about 25 as a serious prospect.


    • Tony I agree with you, even though there are many sweet women, most of the most annoying people I have known are women, there is one that seemed to be OK with me, then I send to her a music video in facebook (we were not friends on Face though) and she blocked me! stupid fat (yes she is ) bitch ,then I just asked her in whatsapp “whats upp with you” and she replied “you stop annoying me”. fucking bullshit


    • @Tony, plz seem my poetry above. Bottom line for whom it may help: Whatever your age, younger women offer more and charge less almost always. You are waisting your time on women if they are 30+ and take actual work. Women never backslide in relative value in their own mind (instinctive pretenses) only because it works on mentally hooked beta providers = 90+% of men. However, if you get an interaction and don’t learn from it, you are also waisting your time. Tick, tock, tick, tock. The more you make seduction about you, the better your results. Lose emotional attachment to women but embrace sexual neediness of them. Your ace is their emotional neediness for alpha. The more you feel wymnz are equal the more you suffer and the less you succeed. It’s a process.


      • @doug I believe what you are saying the last few I have been with were a bit older 30’s to 40yo and they just like you and Tony are describing. Almost to a tee they are trouble, full of baggage, damaged, entitled, not in touch with the real world, and completely full of games.

        Problem is I am older 52 and it is not so easy to pull the below 30 women. Do you have any suggestions on how to get into that demographic more consistently?


      • @reco Yes: go where the fish are: Take pottery classes, take yoga classes, take salsa classes, find out what younger girls are doing and do that.

        I have banged a 23 year old I met and gamed in my dance class. I’m late 40’s. But she had no idea how old I was. She could guess….but my response was always: “DO you really care?”


      • @Reco shhhhhhhh…. Adjunct professor (looks around) don’t tell @Will….!


      • @Reco First of all, lead yourself. Only you can prioritize to address the next lowest hanging fruit and biggest payoff of your time. Second, work on that next thing in field, so go where they are (university library?) and measure against incremental progress not getting laid: vibe and walk by hello; sit on bench and make up reads on ppl; platonically open->open and hang with->open and hang and exit normally; now you can converse so add mild eye foreplay or suggestive words in convo. You must experiment and be your own student. Practice on whomever, but don’t turn down <30 targets because they are <30.

        Remember: women rate men on a completely different and myopically immediate calculus. Young women don't think you are too old as much as they read you thinking you are too old. They are empathy receiver that move around because of it. Be a source of what they want as measured by vaginal proximity not what they say. You don't need all the theory up front. Try basics and get them to work. Location is critical, but work where you can when it fits into your life. Time and opportunity are critical too. Game the 30+,but do it to assert your value instinctively and next like a boss with minimum fuss from the aged princess. That is also a skill. You know that feeling of fear when a live hot young female looks you in the eye, you want to live there fearlessly just to get to the point you can experiment.

        And I hear Julien Blanc is available for personal coaching at a huge discount but act now!

        You must lead your life, even if you are coached, take car to mechanic, see a doctor, etc. Good luck!

        P.S. The older man MUST be wordly and interesting to young women. You must project that you KNOW what to do. She wants to experience that for the first time. There is a reason under 18 is illegal. Too damn easy once you know what you are doing. 18+ is legal. What is proper generally depends on female instincts and sensibilities these days. Work it. A Theory of the Female Mind per evolutionary psychology is extremely useful if you are a theory guy. Most guys are methods only guys, and I suspect they usually fail to learn. You must read live, map to theory, and then write live with words but more importantly body language to include tone and timing. And this is already too long. lol


      • @Reality This year I made it a mission to consistently bang girls under 30. I’m pushing 50. Most can’t guess my real age because of the way I dress, the shape I’m in (I don’t look like you’re dad’s “50”) I’m in fantastic shape, look young. I had all my clothes tailored this year and they fit awesome. I work out and run every day. I have a routine because the discipline that comes with that helps to keep me from sliding into despair.

        I’ll contract that with my colleague who is 8 years younger, has 4 kids, is a booze hound, has a wife who he doesn’t bang and is in the process of separating or going to counselling.

        I personally am full of self-doubt. But this dude looks to me like I’m George Clooney. So the image I portray is clearly aligned with the lifestyle I want to lead.

        Every day I catch myself in beta mode and immediately stop myself. I was having a chat about an artist the other night. The dude was questioning everything. I held my frame, shrugged and said “Maybe this isn’t for you, but if you come with an OPEN MIND you will get a lot out of it.” These are huge steps for me.

        Not all 20 somethings will go for older guys but the ones who do don’t care.

        Also, doing the right thing and sticking by your principles is an attractive quality in an older guy for younger women.

        I had a huge drama in June in my community after some dickhead published a private note I sent to him calling out his bad behavior at a party. He thought he could shame me. Instead I owned my words, called him out for his complete lack of discretion and trust.

        6 months later: the people involved are now coming back to my next event, the people who fucked me over are sitting on the sidelines, my crazy ex gf who was part of all this approached me to personally buy a ticket and it’s all reaching critical mass.

        Nothing is simple. Its up to you to make it simple or keep it simple.

        Best line of the last two weeks was the 23 year old who flaked on me. When I called her out for being a “little baby bitch” she said “I wanna keep it simple.”

        I replied: “It is simple, I’m a man you’re a woman….not a little girl.” She’s still ignoring me but at least I can hold my head high.

        The self-doubt needs to be managed. The “But I’m an older dude” is an excuse. Take stock, fix the easy shit: go to a tailor, haircut, gym…the inner game shit needs to be taken in small steps. I was a documentary film maker. The idea of producing an entire film was always daunting, so I looked at it in terms of sequences or scenes. Complete one, then add it to the next, then add it to the next. Look at it. Re-edit. Game is a bit like that.


      • @walawala I’m late 40s also, but not successful. I’d be looking up to you too. I think if I can get any social leverage my game will be sufficient. City is way better than rural deep south for non-religious me. As far as all young women not attracted to older men, all women don’t like any one guy. Even less are post-wallers attracted to same I think, out of desperate fear, no margin for past errors, be superman only. I saw Owen in video lately, had long hair, was talking about incremental gains as the only way to success. At least with sheeple motives awareness, I don’t sabotage my success as before or throw my efforts down a sheeple well. Sheeple are not reliable people but reliable sheeple. I don’t even want to work at pickup like a hunter a la Roosh. I’d generally rather spin plates and have the convenience as an accessory to a great life, go down list on Friday nite. Really, what’s such a prize even if you do bang these hotties on their schedule at 4am. I hate the non-feel of condom, the constant calibration for beyond liberated force-fed female instincts as a substitute for my sovereignty and physical and mental ability to take the law into my own hands like a civilized man. We peak when and where we peak, not equal to peak of potential in theory without US mind fucking. I am more of a man now in late 40s than I ever was just for practical social awareness. Guys must detach emotionally from AFC rules of matrix. Too old? Got to stand up like you did, walawala. Perfect example. Every social spotlight opportunity is a change to raise one’s social value. Even alone in bar/club. Oliver North became go to Fox News patriot after guns-hostages deal. Dick Morris I think caught with prostitute. Shame? I think that’s a social construct. Does Bill Clinton act ashamed? or lose? FTW 18-29 forever and no regrets lol Just respect danger of police, mental issues, etc. At least a guy should see the mileage damage and factor in, usually should be a quick next. So yes, guys, there is life after 45, but it is fucking work to see the real social rules of society and master them and still have some trade skills. It is moving target as women are more liberated. Future is indirect opening and rejection power not direct opening and intrusion power, unless big wig politician and such. Lots of fucking work. Do me one favor, 40+ gents. Don’t add the impossible needs of a battle axe. Know when to say when. If you aren’t a coward, guys, you know exactly when that is. This original post is about how woymnz switch gears. You’ve been warned. First gear on a 30+ usually costs more than its worth. There is that once in a blue moon DTF affirmation nite, and you guys probably know it when you see it, 50% of guys do and it won’t remain unattended long. That is passing opportunity on 30+, one nite only; otherwise, only for learning. lol If you aren’t 100, you don’t need to be George Burns successful to get a hottie, just together enough to give her the experience. Women do not think long term until they are economically raping you, but you next at the first clear sign of the psychological hooks. Keep her afraid of your other options or next for your safety. Younger is safer, tighter, cheaper, better in every fucking way imaginable. If you approach like a frat boy, you deserve to get hazing. Have a frame you can maintain if rejected, that is sexy as fuck to women.


      • @Reality, a woman’s age preference to me are mostly a shit test. Sure, I’m in my 20s, but teenage girls often consider mid 20s too old. All it takes is either dismissing her concerns or teasing her at this age gap because her concerns actually are preposterous. As long as one is in good shape, have some interesting hobbies/stories etc, one shouldn’t struggle to DHV enough to get over the age gap issue.

        And the reason under 18 is illegal is because of dumbass feminists who hate male desire for young women and old frumpy women who are afraid of competition. I’m just glad I don’t live in a country with enough stupid people to fall for it and that the age of consent here is lower(not that I’m interested in 16 years olds lol).


      • @ Anonymous

        “the reason under 18 is illegal is because of dumbass feminists who hate male desire for young women and old frumpy women who are afraid of competition.”

        partially true but what ‘Reality’ Doug says is also true. it is too easy when girls are very young and that’s not a good thing.

        they are naive, impressionable, and very easy to manipulate. they are at an obvious disadvantage when dealing with older people and the people who take advantage of that are predators. young girls dealing with older men often find themselves in situations that they are not mature enough to handle and they usually regret it later. happens all the time.

        i’m not just talking about romantic entanglements either. most people don’t even want their young girls in friendships with other girls who are more than a year or two older than them. and that’s with good reason. it forces these young impressionable girls to grow up faster than they should and it’s a real shame when that happens.


      • @Heisenberg, agreed. I want to stack onto what you said. I think the civilized rule (enforced only by competent patriarchy) is “you tap it you own it.” Imagine if marriage were too easy and civil rights meant property rights for the producers. If only. I know what I’m fighting for if SHTF. Aint nothing wrong in my mind for a 16-yr-old female to marry a 25-yr-old male (in a patriarchy), but if men did not need to unlearn feminist bs and if teens were expected to have adult qualities, the old days of 16-yr-old female and 18- or 20-yr-old male makes perfect sense. Too bad most fathers aren’t worth a shit and the gov does the protectin’ and decidin’. Therefore, I still endeavor to bang 18-year-olds w/o commitment. Never thought I’d think like that. Banging a 16-year-old is no proof of manhood. (Though if you are under 18 maybe it is: if I could go back and not get anyone preggers. lol) They are so hungry for adult experience as defined by female values of animalism (not equal to civilized culture). If I vibe right (which is one-way broadcast not 2-way channel communication) occasionally I see quite young females effected. They calibration harder damn fast, and that is a good thing. If women really were sluts we’d all have lots of VD. Anyway, I wish marriage could be that easy on the domestic front.


      • @Reality I don’t know the situation where you live. Yes cities are better. But the hardest thing about swallowing the Red Pill is getting over the fear of doing it. Everyone is full of doubts. It’s how you address them that will determine how you proceed. All the girls I bang are hot but it’s always high-risk. After a period some of them just go nuts—like the last one. So? I banged them and some other dude didn’t.

        I still have a ways to go towards achieving that self-actualization or “Inner game” I seek. But it is always incremental. One step forward…then assess.

        You don’t climb Everest in one go, you have to stop, equalize, breathe…then continue.

        I have a girl I’ve been gaming and have been “Friends” with now coming this week. She obviously has some problems with her fiancé.

        I plow on…made plans with her. She says “Woahhhhh i’m on vacation and have other friends…” But she knows it’s on. She’s bringing a “friend” out to one of our things. But a lot of this is just her ensuring plausible deniability.

        The other thing is….I don’t care anymore. If I can’t bang them then I can use them as social proof and to create jealousy plotlines.


      • @walawala I have work to do on myself no doubt. However, it believe there is a healthy fear of losing time on the same old game from the same old place and the same old bad logistics. I am focused on social leverage vs. sheeple skills. My bottleneck is former. I exactly don’t want to deal with married, engaged…I don’t want to chase a women. Chase women, yes, but a woman, no. I love the social proof you are talking about. I want attraction to the point sex is me doing her a favor.

        I think a real city is 100 times easier (that’s two orders of magnitude), and though failure teaches, it does nothing w/o positive reward within a feasible time frame or the lesson has no practical or real value. There is social leverage and DHV for just being in a real city. The cost proves that more people want to be there than can afford it, so it is like a club. Hot young women go there with their dreams and vags. Without game, Atl was good to me on brief stay, for example.

        There is the trade-off in how one invests one’s time. Would you miss a workout to game more? a meal? a paycheck? The more I make women an accessory, the better, laid or not. If I were filthy rich, then I’d sport chase but as the boss with material options, female options, etc. If I only cared about getting laid with perspective, I would take shortcuts and alway be a desperate sniper. There is good hunger and bad hunger. I am working for the day of easy layups, not that I would want to let my sniper skills atrophy. Funny, but the guy who operates best in noise earns the right to work in quiet. If that is your point, I totally agree. I think I agree in principle anyway. I am operating from the point of view that I have untenable handicaps that must be addressed to move forward. Sniping from out-of-range is not useful after I see how it works from that position. (I know, bigger gun. lol Ok, working on bigger gun not closer, but calling it social leverage.)

        If I get to the point of scoring new chicks, then I want to work on retention, post-coitus attraction. It keeps away the regret rape charges as a bonus. I want women to hurt if I am not there: that is attraction. Maybe no condom with a steady girl becomes reasonable. I know its a risk, but condoms feel like shit and why live with perfect safety to the end? Have a virgin with a condom? Only if she is real ugly. lol Yah, I’m blabbering. This has been a good convo thread. May the snatch be with you, gentlemen.


  4. Man alive did this ever happen to me once. When I was younger, about 20, I was desperately trying to get with this woman. She would frequently do things like say “You need a girlfriend, oh and let’s go somewhere together” or give me these long hugs or even sometimes start asking what types of women I liked and compare them to herself. Then when I would ask her if she wanted to get a drink or stay in and have some wine she was all excuses and would act like I was inappropriately asking her this. She said I was creepy when I asked her if she wanted to go somewhere once. I ended up believing she was right because the whole experience was so damned confusing. She wound up dating a string of pencil necked, weird, androgynous scene music types. Her sisters were the same way. A family of attractive girls who prefer utterly contemptible specimens of men. Good news, if you want to get a lady, just pick up a guitar and figure out how to make it sound like a wind chime by plucking strings randomly. If nothing else this girl will bang you.


    • Heh. I absolutely despise guitars and guitar music, but for whatever reason, they’re chick crack in a way that few other instruments are. Except maybe saxophones.


      • on November 21, 2014 at 1:24 pm The Burninator

        Feadog (Irish whistle/tin whistle) well played will cause panties to drop at near light speed. Two entire generations of women swooned and fell in love to the music of Titanic, which had a lot of that there whistle in it. If you can pull it off beside a camp fire as the sun sets you’ll have women wandering out of the woods to come fuck you in your tent.


      • Despising guitar music is seriously limiting your options.


    • Nylon string > steel string > electric guitar…less effective compared to singing or playing piano well, but if you’re into guitar:

      NYLON STRING guitar…women luvluvluv it.

      Steel string acoustic: best around the campfire

      Electric guitar: has to be part of a spectacle, a show, with a band…don’t expect to impress a woman at home. I learned this quickly as a teenager: they find it annoying.

      But…NYLON STRING guitar, bottle of wine, fire in the fireplace, some half way decent ability to make music…the nylons will come off…


  5. Gear switching is par for the course; classic ASD. And it doesn’t just apply to timescales of seconds, but days as well. So a girl may heavily flirt with you, but the next time she sees you, she doesn’t give you much attention at all. It’s a kind of dance… if she backs off, you back off too. After all, you are the prize, so it’s no big deal if she ain’t feelin’ you at that very moment. Then, seemingly satisfied that you aren’t turning clingy on her and finding your unruffled poise intriguing, she comes in once more, closer than before. Just play the dance.


  6. Women fractionate their personalities. If she had led the convo there and you followed, she fractionated because you followed her lead and thats a turnoff for her. If you lead the convo and she followed you to that point, you’re against ASD/LMR from a different part of her brain.

    Agree & amplify.

    Her: “smile or something”
    You: “its gonna take more than a smile to sweep me off my feet”
    Her: “who said i wanna do that?”
    You: “yeah seriously! whoever said you want to sweep me off my feet and then sweep my apartment in a maid outfit must be a huge dick”

    obviously, exception apply.


  7. Had a girl in college switch gears on me. I was hot and heavy with her for a few days but holding off on banging her because my dumb ass wanted to do something different and actually try to get to know her for a day or two before banging (what was I thinking?). So we went to a house party and she basically acted like she was playing a game of ignore me as much as possible. After about 30 minutes of this odd behavior and me wondering wft, I finally just told that bitch that I didn’t know what her problem was, but she could take a hike.”
    The next day my buddy came up to me and asked if I’d be pissed if he could start messing around with the girl. That was a serious gear switch. Never would have believed such a thing could have happened until then. The whole time she was acting weird, I didn’t notice anything about her and my friend having any vibes together. Missed that shit completely. I wasn’t butthurt though, as I knew to move on to the next one which would probably be the next night.

    I did this same gear switch in high school. My girlfriend came over and when I opened the door she was standing there with a new girl friend of her that I’d never seen. I could barely keep my eyes off this new girl and I knew I had to bang her. I’m sure my girl could sense this, and when I banged her friend, she was mad for a bit, but came back for more.


    • “I was hot and heavy with her for a few days but holding off on banging her because my dumb ass wanted to do something different and actually try to get to know her for a day or two before banging (what was I thinking?).”

      You’ve probably figured this out already, but having the guy be the one who wants to wait is a turnoff to us. It’s illogical, but we expect (want) you to push for sex. It’s our job to try to make you wait. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to get to know her, but you should still be pushing for sex immediately. It’s a almost a form of rejection if you don’t.


      • Boy does this ring a bell. Many years ago (in my mid 20-s), I met a girl I really liked. After going out a few times, she invited me over for dinner (her roommates were both at a party for the evening.) It became pretty clear to me that I could have sex with her if I pushed for it, but we hadn’t done anything at all prior to that, and I naively believed what I had been told by various people, so after awhile, it got late and I told her I had to go, although I’d had a really good time. I called the next day, and boy, instant frostbite on the phone. Suddenly, I was friendzoned and that was it…


      • Amy is wrong again lol. The hesitation to bang will warrant a turn off but not because of the shitty rationalization her hamster spat up. Think deeper than grey matter and examine it on an instinctual level. You are not being true to your intent and being incongruent with your own personality to lay the pipe quick. She senses this, she can smell it. She gave you a nonverbal shit test and you failed it miserably.

        Amy has too much confidence on this forum, we need more dudes exposing this wad of bullshit. I don’t need to explain myself.


      • I disagree with dogking and amy. Nothing gets the hamster going like turning the tables and denying a girl sex. She might be so bad at handling rejection she will rationalize her way out of the situation just to avoid getting her feelz hurt. However, if she’s got high self esteem she’ll be more attracted to a guy who’s swimming in so much tang he is fine with turning a few away. I wouldnt delay sex to build attraction. But unbridled thirst to bang asap is a real turn off that will burn you way more than not giving a fuck.
        @arandomguy ive met girls at night and made out or fucked them and been frozen out days after. Even tho your in the moment attraction was high enough to get the bang, it wasn’t enough to carry over into the next day. It’s illogical, but we are talking about women. That is why the gurus advise to get as much as you can on day one. No matter how tight your game or how much fun she had, some girls will invent a reason for their not to be a day 2.
        I can see how Amy’s comment might read ‘ima girl so I know these things’. No need for a call to action tho. It seems to me the commenters and author here peer review things pretty thoroughly.


      • “having the guy be the one who wants to wait is a turnoff to us.”

        Very true. But having the guy be the one who *makes* you wait is a different story.


      • “You are not being true to your intent and being incongruent with your own personality to lay the pipe quick. She senses this, she can smell it. She gave you a nonverbal shit test and you failed it miserably.”

        No kidding. Because it’s the guy’s job to push for sex. But if it makes you feel better to rewrite it so you don’t have to agree with a girl, knock yourself out. *eyeroll*


    • @newlyaloof my guess is the 1st girl was a slut and you didnt pick up on it. Established sluts know the game and play it cool when their fuck buddies are near in public. And when you tried to go ltr with her, she did what sluts do and fucks your friend.


  8. on November 21, 2014 at 1:23 pm Hymen Mingesky

    Dialogue sounds splendid too me.

    [CH: why thank you! so kind]


  9. Aw damn! I saved up a bunch of convos for heartiste text day—and then my phone dies.

    Here’s a couple of okc conversations that died. I’m struggling like hell on okc—I’d love any suggestions on debugging my messages.


    Hot 19 y/o with a basically blank profile, just mentioning hyper hipster music and movie tastes. This was all over one evening.

    Me: Hey my name is Andy. My favorite hobbies are stalking girls and smoking crack. Please talk to me…
    Her: Okay I’m here
    Me: Charmed, but put down the handcuffs. Drinks and mayybe setting off fireworks is as far as I go on the first date.
    Her: Well, unfortunately I don’t drink, so there goes that idea.
    Me: Who said I’d share? You’re lookout and I’ll let you light a couple if ya promise not to be a scaredy cat about it.


    Hot 21 y/o apparently in an open relationship.

    First night:
    Me: Hey my name is Andy. My favorite hobbies are stalking girls and smoking crack. Please talk to me…
    Her: Lol those are quality hobbies to have…
    Me: Right?! I’ve done the open relationship thing before. What are your rules about getting into unmarked white vans? It’s a stick shift lol. [she said driving stick was one of her skills]
    Her: Do you have candy??
    Her: Cause if so I’m down… lol
    Me: Shit do I look that amateur? I use chloroform. But I do need a change of pace. I’ll bring the skittles if you bring the roofies

    Next day
    Her: Bahaha deal!
    Me: Your turn. Tell me something interesting about you

    I’ll hit em both back up.

    I think my frame is overall pretty good, but my texts ain’t snappy or clever. I definitely need to work on brevity. What do you fuckers think?


    • @Lumpy
      lol Artsy is the type I was describing here:


      “Hipster/indie chicks do this shit a lot because they all think they’re super clever lol I find it annoying, I’ve had situs where this takes me weeks or MONTHS of txting before she finally decides I’m legit and switches gears. I pursue it for the practice but I write them off in my mind as slow-track girls and don’t expect to meet up anytime soon. I even flake on them sometimes if they have a lot of attitude. The funniest is when we both flake because she had no intention of actually keeping our plans and neither did I lol

      Once she’s hooked, if you pass enough tests, and then you pull back and be aloof, she’ll either chase pretty hard because not a lot of guys pass her tests or she’ll be so full of herself that she Next’s you in her mind and stops contacting you. Like I find it’ll be one extreme or the other, nothing in-between like a normal “sweet” girl.”

      Nothing in her profile but some music/movie shit, hipster/artsy look, under 23, won’t play along with your shit…yep, you got yourself a hipster. lol Even if you hadn’t described her profile I bet i could have described it just from the “Well, unfortunately I don’t drink, so there goes that idea.” response. It’s just this attitude of priding themselves on being difficult/snarky but mistaking that for being clever/witty.

      I describe a bit about how I deal with these ones in that link, but these days I just roll my eyes when I run into one of them and debate whether it’s worth the effort or not. Even IF you can pull out a bunch of witty responses to her that are just fucking gold compared to her shitty “it’s cool to be boring” replies to where she’s enjoying txting you, she’ll usually make it super difficult to meet up because she wants the fun back and forth text conversation more than she wants dick (since she’s young and probably less experienced than she pretends to be, and has plenty of dick around her already).

      A lot of those ones are just on there for the attention and to tool guys and pat themselves on the back at how witty they are.

      If you hear from her again I’ll be amazed, but you never know lol

      Married is a done deal. Skip the getting to know her stuff, she doesn’t need that (she has a husband for that feelings stuff), she just wants good emotions and for you to make shit happen. So keep things on the teasing, fun, sexual innuendo/roleplaying, flirting level and push for drinks.

      With married chicks I like to use stuff like “lol you’re fun. I don’t meet many women that can keep up with my sense of humor. We should go for drinks so I can see if you’re this clever in person. Are you allowed to sneak out this weekend?”

      So in that I start with telling her she’s passed my (non-looks-based) qualification, and stated my interest. Then in the same text I’m pushing things forward toward a goal (VS just having a fun conversation…it’s fine if she can’t make it or turns this down or needs to get to know me first, the point is that I’m expressing my intent so she knows if she keeps talking to me I plan to meet up with her at some point).

      Then I suggest the actual think we’ll do, instead of leaving it up in the air/vague so she knows I just want to drink and fuck, VS her having to worry that I want to waste her time taking her to a dinner/movie or some gay date that again, she already has a husband for.

      Then, because she sounds like she has a feisty personality, I word my invite as a challenge…I could have said “Can you meet up for drinks this weekend?” or “Are you free this weekend?” or “Let’s meet up this weekend.” But by framing it as “Are you ALLOWED to SNEAK out this weekend?” I’m challenging her by implying that her man controls her and makes all the decisions and she has no will of her own, which makes feisty chicks want to prove you wrong so this usually triggers her “ALLOWED, pffft, I do what I WANT” instinct. Sneak implies the same thing, like she has to sneak out of there, but also indicates that I understand her situation, that she has a man she has to work around, and it implies that he’s either clingy/weepy so she has to sneak out of there to not hurt his feelings, or that he’s jealous/controlling so she has to sneak out of there to not get in trouble…either way it frames her hubby as lame and someone she needs to “escape” from to go have fun. Really subtle AMOG, just laying out frames and seeing which ones she falls into.

      Also I say “this weekend” instead of specifically friday 7pm etc. because she has a hubby she has to work around, so she might have shit to do with him that makes her not able to do a prime friday night but she may throw back “lol I’m free Sunday afternoon” and then you lock it down to Sunday afternoon drinks at a bar near your apartment and bone. If she picks a venue it SHOULD be okay…a 21yo or a single cougar will pick a venue where she’s super popular and high-value and has orbiters, but a married chick may have a venue or two in mind where she knows her hubby and his buddies will never go and no one will know her there, whereas the venue you suggest maybe the bartender is a friend of her hubby’s or something…just ’cause she’s in an oLTR doesn’t mean he knows they are (lol) and doesn’t mean there’s no discretion between them…like she may be able to sneak out and bang you but out of respect for her partner she doesn’t want to be rubbing it in his face.

      Opener is solid. I use a similar self-depreciating one. It makes me stand out and helps me weed out girls who don’t share my sense of humor/sarcasm.


    • @Lumpy
      response in mod. Don’t txt either of them. 2nd one should text you back when she gets time (having a hubby her schedule may be crazy, she may not be able to text when he’s around etc.) and should be a done deal.

      1st one I’d be surprised if she txted but if you want to try to save it I would use something offensive like “shit, a shy one. You’re not a virgin, are you?” that’ll get ANY kind of response and try to work from there. Her personality type is a downer vibe-killer that probably prides herself on being “difficult”, so I just work the old man completely unimpressed and kind of an asshole angle…no emoticons or lols or anything, lots of offensive shit. lol These ones are annoying, see my post in mod for more.


      • on November 21, 2014 at 7:50 pm Pijama Wearing Ninja

        “Her personality type is a downer vibe-killer that probably prides herself on being “difficult””
        Fuck these girls, especially when friends date them. They’re brilliant at ruining other people’s good time.


      • “Fuck these girls, especially when friends date them. They’re brilliant at ruining other people’s good time.”

        hate these girls too. buddy’s got one. pain in the ass. all his friends and family wish he would dump her but he never will. i don’t think he sees what a mess he is because of her and how much he’s giving up.

        he thinks he’s doing what’s right by sticking with her and her kids but nobody admires him for that. we just pity him for throwing his life away on a miserable shrew who doesn’t respect him or treat him right.


      • Interesting remarks re hipster girls. i thought maybe it was just me. But they truly are difficult for the sake of being difficult. at least the ones in college are.

        I sat next to this 7 hipster SWPL girl in a big city park. she had on $800 worth of casual clothes and boots, went to the elite university next door, which she backdoored her way in to (apparently you can avoid application by spending a year auditing classes and then enroll if you have good grades). she had the nose stud and parents worth mid 7 figures and a $3000 a month apartment.

        she was a trip. I opened her with something about buying all her clothes out of J Crew and she said she has NEVER heard of J Crew… in 2014, she tries this shit.

        anyhow, went into a bit of “have you ever had a whole relationship in one day… meet fall in love, hot sex, break up, tears…? we can start at the bar down the street. This blew her away but could never set the hook. She said at least 15 times she couldn’t believe I would say something like that and expect anything of her. She doesn’t drink blah blah blah. I knew it was totally blown but was just trying to fuck with her. she spent a half hour talking to me, always coming back to that she couldn’t believe I was out hitting on girls etc. I thought about Zombie Shane of all things.. he is always going on about the darkness, nihilism etc. here it was up close.

        I kept a laid back chill vibe going, every time she would bring it up I would just sit back more chill and say “see, you are convincing yourself, just a matter of time”… Then she started this shit about this being her bench and she wasn’t going to leave… I laughed at this, kept the chill vibe going. Finally she stormed off to my chuckling….

        Thing is she messed up my frame for several hours afterwards. These girls are heinous. On my avoid list now.


      • @ K

        “he thinks he’s doing what’s right by sticking with her…throwing his life away on a miserable shrew who doesn’t respect him or treat him right.”

        see this all the time. friend of mine in the same situation. he even had a fling once with a girl who was a real keeper and she was totally into him. he ended it because of the guilt. guilt for what, we were thinking. we all thought he was a dumbass for missing his chance to get out.

        he isn’t even married to this girl but he sticks with her anyway. she is a depressing, negative ninny who treats him like crap. i don’t think he sees it that way. he’s probably just used to it. he talks about her like she’s a great girl but we all see the truth.

        he’s been helping her through school for years, he supports her through every crisis (there is always a crisis) and puts up with her constant bitching and moaning. she’s rude, sarcastic and busting his balls whenever she has the chance. don’t know why he puts up with it. loyalty is one thing but he’s seriously throwing his life away on someone who doesn’t deserve him. and i know the stress of it isn’t good for his health. even worse, the girl’s kids see it all and are growing up thinking it’s normal for women to act like that and still keep a good guy.

        should have left her for the side girl is all i can say.


      • “i don’t think he sees it that way. he’s probably just used to it. he talks about her like she’s a great girl but we all see the truth.”

        have you tried talking to your buddy about the red pill? he probably is just used to it like you said but we were all there until we woke up. if you care about your friend you owe it to him to help him see the light.


      • “have you tried talking to your buddy about the red pill?”

        yeah, somewhat. i should try talking to him more though.

        he won’t ever leave her. they’ve been living together for years, he’s been a dad to the kids since they were toddlers and he works for her dad. i think they are working on getting pregnant now so he’s for sure planning to stay with her.

        but i guess if he’s not leaving, he might as well try to make the best of it. i’ll talk to him. thanks Heisenberg.


    • lol you killed it at “tell me something interesting about you.” You might as well have asked what are her favourite movies or some shit. It totally deflated the playful vibe you had going. It’s the girl’s job to extract sincerity out of you, not yours to extract it out of her.

      It’s also not solely about killing the attraction. Girls are terrible at answering open ended questions like this. They will often feel lost and just not respond. Even then, imagine someone asked you to say “something interesting” about yourself. I personally don’t know what I’d say unless I was answering facetiously.

      At this point you should have just pressed for the date in as few words as possible. “meet me at blah blah at [date/time].”

      If she shit tests about making the demand/assuming she’s gonna meet you just cos you said “meet me,” just say “I get shit done” or “lol shut up”.

      Overall, wrt both conversations, don’t feel too much pressure to be funny and clever like this, and you don’t have to establish total rapport at this stage. Say less than is necessary; you’ll be surprised how quickly you can get away with pushing for a date.


      • on November 23, 2014 at 9:14 am Pijama Wearing Ninja

        I think he fucked up because he started to try to build rapport before they had attraction. I don’t think he DHVed enough and she didn’t like him enough to start ranting about what’s interesting about her.


    • You are trying Wayyy too hard. If you’re relatively good looking, then just say “hey girl” and leave it at that. Also I can tell by your words you don’t send out enough messages. Seriously, send out “hey, you seem nice. What’s up.” To 15 profiles every day for a week. If you have an attractive profile and you stand out a bit, send 3 messages maximum back and forth, and ask if she has facebook. Believe me, this is all about appearances, and your only job is to get their real contact info, facebook or whatsapp or a number..whatever. You will not win girls online with elaborate banter and you come off as way too invested in each “conversation”. Treat that shit like an assembly line and just spam, take the nibbles, ask how they are, maybe question one thing on her profile, and then just go for the facebook. Or number. The amount of girls you have to message before you get some strong leads is absurd, and until you go balls out, I don’t think most men realize how many messages are necessary to find a solid lead. Persist and spam and you will have the right things to say.


  10. Maine surprises me.


  11. How about “that’s ok, I had to take shit anyway…”?


  12. You’re hot then you’re cold
    You’re yes then you’re no
    You’re in then you’re out
    You’re up then you’re down

    Someone call the doctor
    Got a case of a love bi-polar
    Stuck on a roller coaster
    Can’t get off this ride



    • on November 24, 2014 at 2:24 am Mean Mr. Mustard

      On a typical woman’s online dating website these days; “A few extra pounds/kilos” should be read as, gargantuan.


  13. i used to screw this up so much when i was younger. i can’t even count how many times i did the wrong thing.


  14. ‘ “who said i wanna do that?”

    “oh, ok. take care then.” ‘

    this is actually very easy to be construed as butthurtness, no good.


    • @marco the context is important. If this a girl you have rapport with or are banging, it would instill dread: “omg does he think I’m a bitch?”

      Also, who cares? If she’s being a bitch and you say that after a cunty response that she just gave you…whatever.

      I wrote earlier that I texted: …and don’t be a little baby bitch” to the girl who suddenly blew me off.

      Someone said it sounded a bit angry.

      The point is…I don’t care at this point. if she’s blowing me off or acting up and you amplify…it will do one of two things: 1) instill dread 2) nothing

      if it does nothing…so what. Don’t re-engage. If it instills dread…she will re-engage.

      You are allowed to get mad and still be “alpha”. if you’re the guy ALWAYS getting butt-hurt–yah that’s lame. If you show a flash of anger when she acts up after remaining otherwise cool. That is enough of a shock to instill some type of reaction.


  15. “who said i wanna do that?”

    I’ve seen that smile of yours two times. One is women who are interested. The other was my infant nephew just after he pooped in his diaper.


    • on November 21, 2014 at 8:09 pm Pijama Wearing Ninja

      That obesity chart you have on your site is distressing. I wish they simply put poison in fast food so that at least these people won’t clog the healthcare service with their issues. I don’t even get why they get treated better than smokers(maybe ban fat people from establishments too; fat carrying in this place isn’t allowed, just like smoking inside isn’t).

      This being said the answer to the who said I wanna do that question is asking her if she’s straight or tool her about having a lady friend to introduce her to if men aren’t her thing.


  16. on November 21, 2014 at 5:42 pm Very Lesser Beta


    “who said i wanna do that?”

    “you protest too much.”

    I love this. You could even make it better and go Shakespeare on her and say “The lady doth protest too much, methinks.”


  17. “who said i wanna do that?”
    “you did” or “you didn’t have to.”


    By the way, ever seen this shirt?


    We need one that say, “I have the fists so I break the rules.”


    • on November 21, 2014 at 7:59 pm Pijama Wearing Ninja

      I wanted to get a few shirts with custom images and quotes that both represent me and can be used as social glue and stand out, but all these shirts you can get custom made get ruined after a few washes.

      I’d ask a girl that wears that shirt if having more than one pussy makes me the rule maker instead. I’d buy a beer to a guy who tells a woman wearing that shirt after sex ‘so now that I got the pussy and I’m making the rules, go make me a sandwich’. 😛


    • I replied to a bitch who said this to me directly during the seduction with this line

      “The Cock Rocks”

      Result = Instant tingles


  18. Recent text exchange between me and girl I banged who I hang out with..haven’t banged her since then:

    Her: Where you?

    Me: Missing me?

    Her: winky icon Uh no

    Me: LIar Drinks. Come

    rest is just blah blah blah.


    • on November 21, 2014 at 7:54 pm Pijama Wearing Ninja

      I have a question. My phone auto-corrects my texts so they always look well written. Should I turn auto-correct off for the sake of not appearing like a spellproof my texts? A friend asked me how come I’m using diacritics when I text. lol.


      • @Pijama I reviewed my texts. There’s like cAPital letters thrown in all the time. It looks like Zodiac or Dr. Suess wrote them.

        Until you wrote this, I hadn’t thought how much it looks like I don’t give a shit when I text these girls…looks like I just threw this together before I did a bunjee jump or went into a meeting or something cool.


      • on November 23, 2014 at 9:00 am Pijama Wearing Ninja

        @walawala, my texts with no auto correct are outright farcical. They’d have NO capital letters, some misplaced letters etc while my auto correct texts are flawless despite the latter requiring less effort(because SwiftKey predicts the words I want to use, awesome app). When I’ll bother to install Tinder, I’ll make a fake profile too and spam girls the same comment written both properly and with mistakes and see how it goes. I’m not very motivated because women here only use it for validation and don’t talk back, let alone go out with you.


  19. What has Zeets been up to? Sounded like he was your best friend and a good player.


  20. Learned something today. Recently I’ve had the casual throwing in of boyfriend references when talking to women who I have no sexual interest in and have not displayed anything that would remotely suggest it (my entire life people have commented how difficult I can be to read).

    It’s often the cute, but not above average chick. I’ll be shooting the breeze, keeping it neutral, but taking some interest in them. They seem to mention it early-ish (but not in the first 5-10 minutes). Is this the ‘switch gears’ or is it a defense mechanism to demonstrate value to compensate for my lack of discernible, demonstrated interest?


    • Any conversation between men and women connotes *some* interest. Bringing up the boyfriend in a pleasant way (if he’s real) is a display of loyalty as well as a way to “spare” you any embarrassment in thinking she’s available. If she brings him up in a neutral way, that means you’ve been friend zoned, and doing it in a snotty way means you’ve offended her by not being more interested in her.


      • I can see what your saying, but not exactly. I was genuinely having a neutral conversation. It was a girl who I recounted a story about in a Heartiste post about attention whoring maybe a week ago. I had never been interested in talking to her and she subsequently desperately tried to get my attention. She even initiated the conversation. she happened to be there, so why not talk to her.


      • I was demonstrated polite social interest, not sexual interest. This was the girl I mentioned in the Heartiste post a week back about attention whoring. Like I mentioned in that post, she hadn’t been able to get my attention prior, then worked furiously to get it, I responded amused and polite and went through the motions. She works at my local coffee shop, I get along with the owner and the other baristsa, so I was being civil. It baffles me because I will have no interest or show interest.


      • Then I’d agree its a defense mechanism.


      • @blogster After reading the convo, I think these women are trying to provoke your interest (not necessarily to have you though, maybe only status seeking, they feel publicly demoted). You don’t need to try to fuck them per se, but they do ‘need’ the higher status of your interest (DHV effective transfer). Insincere ‘interest’ is sometimes necessary to disarm potential cockblockers who don’t want to look inferior next to target friend. I think this is similar. After you are worth it to her (did DHV), show respect for her as a desirable piece of meat by acknowledging that she is sexy, maybe in general, true or not. Homos have no problem doing this without personal interest. Mystery might say to a target, “If I weren’t gay, you’d be so mine.” Then later he escalates anyway, not that you need to. Personally, I think I would escalate for the just-for-fun kiss and touchy-feely. Then hit on a hotter chick=pawning) or drift away, higher rep either way, nothing personal, which is how women like it until they want the ATM commitment (when you should next at the latest). Be emotionally detached about awareness of positive sexual value and Demonstrate her Higher Value for being with your higher value, which is why DHV works. Its about her always, each one, the little sexy bitch. Throw a crumb but maintain upper hand, and see if that works better. She might set you up to bang her friends. Or shit, hang with hotter chicks if you can. You think she wouldn’t drop you like a bad habit?


    • kinda what Kate said. I’ve always seen it as a challenge being issued and will sometimes say “challenge accepted!” which rolls into a quick and passive “we can still be friends though right?”. if she says sure and you get the number (80%) of the time, you will bang her just the very min she can trust that you won’t breath a word to anyone and there are social repercussions.

      every, and I mean EVERY woman will cheat and betray her man when she is properly gassed up. a simple byproduct of the comfortable society that your doting beta male built for the comfort of women. just learn to know what to look for.


      • *NO social repercussions


      • “every, and I mean EVERY woman will cheat and betray her man when she is properly gassed up”

        I must object. This statement absolves women of responsibility. Rule #1 for married women: There is never a reason to be alone with a man who is not your husband. What about work, you say? Rule #1.2 for married women: ask your husband to leave your job. If he thinks he can’t afford it, ask him if he can afford a divorce, because working outside the home divides a woman’s loyalties and leaves her “unprotected” from men who have power over her. Only the strongest of wills can resist the gods of biomechanics. There is no reason to tempt fate.


      • lol @Kate, you object to absolving women of a responsibility you then acknowledge women can’t handle, thus leading to divorce. The first part offends you right in the social status, and the second part is your wisdom (for a girl). 🙂 Or its healthy dread, one of the two.

        @Tilikum, I think you are right. It is hard after never giving away attraction before interest, always working at the A phase to then give interest to advance attraction even higher, but if I read that right, he does not want to have sex with them. I think married women are the easiest (or rarely the hardest to the point of being impossible = happily married in the instincts). An angry husband aint the easiest, but learning that marriage status has nothing to do with what’s a woman’s ‘heart’. Girls just wanna have tingles. “properly gassed up” is exactly right. Thank you Jesus I never got married. I like the idea of contractual marriage in a patriarchy, but not this shit.

        @blogster You and your ‘friends’ have finished the Attraction phase, and she needs the Comfort phase, even if a platonic comfort (with familiar you at higher status) is the end game. Those women feel like chopped liver with you in public, I am guessing.


      • hahahaha yeah, whoops 🙂 I did contradict myself there. I’m going to stick with this nugget though: NAWALT is necessary because AWALT absolves women from responsibility.


      • @Kate Even though AWALT, some women are definitely better than others. Call it a paradox if you like. Avoiding bad situations helps a woman retain value. Strangely, a man is supposed to face bad situations and just win. Women (and fathers) are smart to play defense; a man must go on offense and win, or he is a loser like most men. It is all or nothing for the guys. One penis can fertilize 100 vags, no problem, and nature knows it.


      • Funny how Tilikum claims that “women are not human beings!” like the omega he is, and then he tries to get email addresses from women posting in the forum. Here he is replying to Kate, who is a woman, so she wouldn’t be a human being according to the retard. So how can she write a post that makes more sense than anything Tili has been able to write? All he can do when he isn’t showing his hatred of women who won’t touch him is copy and paste clichés from elsewhere. And suck up to his beloved neocons.


    • lightbulb moment for me. thanks doug, kate and tilikum for your thoughts.


      • Happy to help. And isn’t it interesting in life how solving one problem, such as attracting girls, leads to new problems: attracting too many girls! I’m afraid you’re just going to have to get used to being a heartthrob 🙂


      • We are playing a women’s game, no patriarchs here. But we can use reason about it. Deploy that bitch shield! lol = higher value associates. Move up in this world. If you don’t outgrow your static friends, you are not growing.