The Female Total Attractiveness-Age Curve

A reader passed along this graph, but I don’t know the source. It looks like a graph cobbled together by a feminist or feminist-friendly manboob trying to artificially extend the sexual market viability of aging beauties. See if you can spot the category errors.

The Y-axis is “percentage of potential”, which presumably means the percentage of maximum potential beauty that a woman at a given age possesses. So, from the graph, a 15-year-old teenager has achieved 40% of her maximum potential beauty. A 50-year-old woman is on the downslope of her beauty curve and has 85% of her maximum potential beauty remaining (*snort*).

The three lines are “external attractiveness” (physical beauty, which is pretty much the kitten and caboodle), “internal attractiveness” (aka inner beauty, which counts for a little), and “combined attractiveness” (the total attractiveness of a woman after her outer and inner beauty have been factored together).

If you haven’t got it yet, the category errors are:

1. The curve is much too generous to older women. There’s no way in the real world that a 60-year-old woman possesses the same amount of beauty as her 17-year-old self.

2. The inner beauty curve is likewise unrealistic. The typical woman’s personality and femininity reaches its maximum at age 70 (and up)? By whose standard? Oh yeah, by the standard of delusional feminists. If nothing else, aging subtracts IQ points, so 70-year-old women are likely not the sparkling conversationalists they were at age 25 (though they may occasionally drop gems of wisdom).

3. Finally, the combined attractiveness curve is worthless because it rests on the false premise that a woman’s external and internal attractiveness are equally valuable to her romantic prospects.

Here’s the improved, Chateau Heartiste version of the Female Total Attractiveness-Age Curve:

Much better. Red line is beauty (dispensing with the “external” redundancy), green line is inner beauty.

As you can see, the red line more accurately reflects the average woman’s external attractiveness trajectory. For most women who haven’t concealed their natural slender youthful beauty under an arctic-stressed layer of blubber, their peak beauty will occur between ages 15 and 25. The average woman will therefore max out in beauty at age 20. Unusual exceptions that desperate cougars trot out in support of an argument to the contrary prove the rule.

Past age 20, women begin the retreat from their maximum potential beauty. The fade is slow at first (as reflected in the less precipitous drop of the right side of the beauty curve), and this initially slow deterioration gives women a five to ten year graceless period to hone their self-delusion skills. “I’ll find a great guy when I’m 30!” CH: “No you won’t. You’ll settle for less, and your gogrrl friends will lie to you about this fact.”

By age 30, a woman is down to about 85% of her previous beauty high. At this stage of the game, she can no longer deny the tribute her skin and sag have paid to the überpatriarch, Father Time. It might not be evident yet under winter clothes, but it sure is the morning after twixt the bedsheets.

Now the decline accelerates in earnest. Age 35: 60% of former glory. Age 40: 40% of former glory (equivalent to her incipient preteen beauty buds). Age 50: 10%. For the typical woman, the Wall — the age at which she becomes sexually worthless to any man who isn’t legally obligated to assuage her fears — strikes sometime in her mid-50s. Almost no women beyond age 60 are capable of inciting genuine boners in any (white or asian) man.

The green line — inner beauty — is also adjusted to more accurately portray what’s going on with the average woman’s personality as she ages. This one is trickier to pin down than physical beauty, so I’ll explain.

A woman’s “internal attractiveness” covers a lot of territory, but if we are concerned with how she’ll fare romantically then we can pare back the number of relevant personality and temperament dimensions to only those that will contribute to, or subtract from, her dating or marital success. When it comes to “inner beauty”, the female traits that matter are those traits that men find delightful about women’s nonsexual (and sometimes sexual) company. This would include:

Her cheerfulness.
Her kindness.
Her submissiveness (to a greater or lesser degree).
Her coyness (suitably circumscribed).
Her fidelity (slutty aggressiveness has a short shelf life).
Her mothering instinct (does she love animals and children?).
Her gratitude (does she laugh at your jokes and swoon for your kingly mercies?).
Her femininity (does she love your teasing, return the favor, and do it all with a sparkle in her eyes?).
Her focused desire (she is desirous of you, and no other man).
Her patience (she warmly tolerates your masculine eccentricities).
Her self-restraint (she doesn’t nag).

The new and improved green “inner beauty” line closely follows the red “outer beauty” line. This is no coincidence. A woman is most charming when she’s happiest, and a woman is happiest when she’s most desired by men and feels most womanly.

There’s a slight lag in personality development. Generally, women blossom physically before their femininity matures. There’s a bit of catching up to do to the reality that her body inflames the ardor of young and old men alike. But indiscriminate male ardor can also harden the prettier women who come to learn the art of ice queen coldness as a deterrent to mistaken intentions. Thus, the peak of female inner beauty is short-lived, typically occurring during the mid-20s, after she has mastered her feminine wiles but before any single lady bitchiness has robbed some of her charm.

Inner beauty is a moving target and highly susceptible to changes in a woman’s relationship status. Women who ride the 20s-early 30s cock carousel, or who are out of committed relationships more than they’re in them, will succumb to the call of the bitch. Their femininity will disappear under a bunker of nastiness and bitterness. This is why women’s inner beauty line collapses faster than their outer beauty line: If we are talking about a woman’s LTR or marital prospects, then desperation-fueled bitchiness will betray her state of mind before her body betrays her state of hind.

Women who do the smart thing and lock down a man at their beauty peaks (early-mid 20s) won’t have this issue of rapidly deteriorating inner beauty, at least not with the same intensity undergone by unattached women. They will have started families and their happiness will become contingent on their wife and motherhood experiences more than their romantic allure.

That caveat aside, all women, no matter their marital or familial status, will suffer a cratering of inner beauty as their outer beauty abandons them. No one relishes the prospect of aging and body decomposition, but the travail affects women more deeply as they are the sex for whom youthful vainglory is most conspicuously allied with their fortunes of romance. By age 50, a woman will have lost most of that feminine charm she had as a 20-year-old vixen. This fact of womanhood is IQ-independent.

But it never bottoms out like her physical beauty. Past age 50, a woman becomes matronly, finally surrendering the last of her dreams of sultry attractiveness for the serene reality of her asexual, swaddling bosom. At this stage, a woman can jettison the feminine for the grandmotherly and substitute one set of happy personality traits for another. The older woman will never be as scintillating as her young self, but she can be pleasant company, rife with stories and disregard for restricting social etiquette, helped to fruition by the specter of sex banished to fond memory. Thus, a woman at age 70 can be as charming as she was at age 13. Peculiarly, at each end of life, a woman’s asexual allure converges onto a similar precociousness and innocence.

There was no need to draw a revised combined female attractiveness line. Women’s physical beauty is 9/10s of the Wall. Her inner beauty counts for something, particularly when that something is a man’s decision to long-term commitment, but as a factor under consideration by men it hardly budges her outer beauty curve in a more “age-appropriate” direction. The best you can say about women’s inner beauty is that it can bump up female SMV a half point, perhaps a full point as you get into the rarefied air of 8s and higher. (This latter phenomenon is what I call the “Oh shit, she’s hot AND sane!” lottery win.)

These are unkind truths, but they need telling, now more than ever in this time of delusional freaks vomiting their mental disease through every available medium. A woman who does not square up and accept this reality about her inevitable and all-too-swift sex-specific attractiveness decline is setting herself up for an unhappiness far more profound and entrenched than any fleeting discomfort from reading the Rude Word of Heartiste.





Comments


  1. […] The Female Total Attractiveness-Age Curve […]

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    • on October 27, 2014 at 2:38 pm CAPSLOCK HUSTLA

      GRAPH TITLE DOESN’T SPECIFY HUMAN FEMALES.

      MIGHT BE REFERRING TO AQUATIC MAMMALS. THEY DON’T REACH PEAK BEAUTY UNTIL THEY’VE HAD A LOT OF TIME TO ACQUIRE A NICE COATING OF BARNACLES.

      Liked by 1 person


      • WALMART IN HOT WATER OVER ‘FAT GIRL’ HALLOWEEN COSTUMES
        http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3220411/posts

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      • yeah…wtf, inner beauty? You mean the opinionated jaded abrasion that these 30s have because reality didn’t do them the favor of conforming itself to their wishes?

        There’s a reason I date girls under 20 if I can- they are both externally AND internally MORE BEAUTIFUL than older women. Older women may have some “life experience” or shit like that but they lack charm, grace, enthusiasm, etc. You can find 18 year olds that do have something to say…they’re not growing on trees but they’re out there.

        I have no idea what this inner beauty curve was based upon…how many times they voted democrat? How “feminist” they’ve become? How they decided that they were repeatedly raped in college?

        Liked by 1 person


    • What do you think of the notion that the optimal age for both is
      Female Age = (1/2) Male age + 7
      Or Male = 2(Female -7)
      so that your hypothetical woman who marries optimally at 24 per the CH strategy should choose a man of 34?

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      • That is not the ‘optimal’ it’s the ‘maximum/minimum. I believe there is a Wikipedia on the subject.

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      • That’s the PC feminist BS position. I’m suggesting it as optimal.
        Where a woman maximizes her SMV to attract the partner that will make her happiest, that has the most of what she values, and where the marriage actually will last and be happy,
        and where the man likewise maximizes his SMV to attract the partner that will make him happiest.

        Notice that under the assumption its correct, the two partners grow closer in age with each passing year, in the sense that if they were to divorce and remarry, the man would be seeking a still younger woman and the woman a still older man. Reflecting the fact that women age much faster than men, in SMV terms.

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  2. The wall strikes in a woman’s mid-50s? I thought it had long been repeated that 30 was pretty much the wall, with allowances made one way or the other for different women. Now 55 is the new 30?

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    • By age 30 her beauty starts declining at the fastest rate; i.e. the wall.

      By 55 almost all beauty is gone

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      • on October 27, 2014 at 1:24 pm The Man Who Was . . .

        For the average woman, real decline starts around 25. For more attractive women, more serious decline starts somewhere between 30 and 35.

        Liked by 1 person


      • Braveagnosticgirl.. wow that is certainly a strange thing to say about your mother.
        I feel like.. we can not look at family members that way. westermarck effect maybe?
        I can say men in my family are handsome, but in extremely…non sexual way. lol.

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      • I actually agree with the femcunts to the extent that there is something special about the wise-beyond-her-years fucks-like-an-animal early- to mid-30s-ish years which is where a lot of women peak. But the fall-off a few years later can be shockingly abrupt. In that sense, Mother Nature is very cruel to women of that age – allowing them to continue to pretend that they are going to live forever, when, in fact, they are just experiencing the last fleeting “Indian Summer” warmth of their glory years right before the first hard frost of autumn kills off the very last blossoms on the vine.

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      • on October 27, 2014 at 4:18 pm cointelproagent

        Zombie, that shit was straight up poetic homie.

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      • They start hitting the Wall noticeably in their 30s. The result can be said to be done … for some in their mid-40s, for others in their 50s.

        But this is nitpickin.

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      • Zombie Shane: “But the fall-off a few years later can be shockingly abrupt.”

        It certainly can be. So many guys these days are marrying early 30’s women, and then, almost immediately – Bam! The wall. It’s over almost before it began. It comes on so fast these guys should qualify for some sort of PTSD related disability.

        As I go through my week, I often see married couples walking about. At least nine times out of ten, the wife is so unattractive that there is no way I could possibly imagine doing her, and these are just women in their 30’s. In fact, it is impossible for me to imagine most of them as having ever been attractive enough to warrant male attention.

        Perhaps the fault is mine, and my imagination impoverished. Where I saw only blight, sag and bloat, their male partners saw bounteous opportunity, vistas beyond compare.

        Do these men have stomachs of iron, or something? What power of will do they possess that I lack, in order to service these mighty warpigs? Most assuredly, I could never do what they do. I lack the strength, to my great and eternal shame.

        Col. Kurtz himself has nothing on such gods, strolling amongst mere mortals such as I. Give me ten divisions of men like that and…well, not exactly sure what I could do. Probably bump up porn sales a notch or so.

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      • This is about as unscientific as, well, a Social ‘Science’ dissertation. But eastern European women seem to go into precipitious decline from their early thirties on. It’s a phenomenon that’s been widely noted, by males and females, where I live (a town that harbours a lot of eastern Europeans).

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      • on October 27, 2014 at 6:07 pm Carlos Danger

        Re: Eastern European women- not in my experience. If they go downhill it’s usually due to a hard life. My wife is 36 and looks very good still and could easily pass for her late 20s. She just had a child, n stretch marks or distortions at all. I think looks better now than when I married her. Her sisters are the same.

        Liked by 1 person


      • “I actually agree with the femcunts to the extent that there is something special about the wise-beyond-her-years fucks-like-an-animal early- to mid-30s-ish years which is where a lot of women peak.”

        I agree. As an FCer once put it, that ever-so-slightly-overripe point is the stuff of otherworldly sex.

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      • > “ever-so-slightly-overripe” THIS! The fruit which was allowed to hang a little too long after the end of the season. But the nights are getting colder. So very much colder. Increasing urgency to harvest. The frost is looming.

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    • on October 27, 2014 at 1:23 pm The Man Who Was . . .

      The wall is when a woman loses all sexual attractiveness. For most women this happens in their 40s. A small minority manage to maintain some lingering attractiveness into their 50s. The exact date depends on where they started from and how well they maintained their body.

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      • on October 27, 2014 at 1:34 pm braveagnosticg

        I am good looking in my 20’s ,my biological father on the contrary is not good looking … got it from my mom, she is in her 40’s and surprisingly if she wasn’t related to me, I still would fuck with her… though this year I am starting to see a more serious decline in her beauty

        Liked by 1 person


      • girls hit the wall in their 30s, it’s right there in the graph. pay attention.

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      • The Wall happens when a female’s physical attractiveness precludes her from securing attention and/or commitment from alpha males. All women always have some men to fuck them, as even 50 yr landwhales can be fucked by a fat blue pill omega in his 40s. The key is when instead of attracting regular alphas, a woman is only able to attract betas, omegas and drunk alphas. That is the Wall hitting her like reality.

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    • The wall is the end. 30 is the beginning of the end.

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  3. “The best you can say about women’s inner beauty is that it can bump up female SMV a half point, perhaps a full point as you get into the rarefied air of 8s and higher. (This latter phenomenon is what I call the “Oh shit, she’s hot AND sane!” lottery win.)”

    This is consistent with my experience, except based on what I read here, it bumps a girl’s “dateable” SMV, not her “bangable” one. There were some comments recently about how quickly men assess a woman sexually, long before he’d have any opportunity to assess her personality. So I’d like to think inner beauty *always* bumps a girl’s SMV, but how can it?

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  4. on October 27, 2014 at 1:00 pm Laguna Beach Fogey

    “Internal attractiveness” in that first graph…LOL

    Fucking delusional.

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    • I kinda threw up in my mouth a little too.

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    • No man ever says, “Hey, look at the personality on that one!”

      Truth rape!

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      • Gotta disagree there. An HB5 with a huge warm smile on her face, the heart of an angel, and a clitoris the size of a frigging ping-pong ball is an HB10 in my book.

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      • And a big nose too?

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      • As I understand it, the last hooknose with “the heart of an angel” is worshipped by a large cult, working out of Rome, Italy, as being some sort of a Goddess.

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      • lol. zombie shane lost all credibility when he declared a nice 5 hotter than a bitchy 10.

        recalibrate rape!

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      • Personality does matter at the margins. An attractive 8 with a good personality trumps a bitchy 9 or maybe even 10, and definitely a bitchy 8.

        In other words, it helps attractive girls in comparison to other attractive girls. It doesn’t help unattractive girls in comparison to the attractive.

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      • Yes, true, at the margins, I totally grok that.

        But this joker was saying a 5 was better than a 10. Clearly a troll or an uber-beta.

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      • Fuck the margins. Personality is the HEART of the matter. Darkness of the Heart == Run Forrest Run! [Although I am increasingly amenable to the horrifying proposition of Biological Calvinism which posits that we can predict inner Grace via external beauty].

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      • lol. zombie shane lost all credibility when he declared a nice 5 hotter than a bitchy 10.

        recalibrate rape!

        “Lost all credibility”? The point he makes is that a woman can indeed become more attractive by having a good personality. Which CH also says. But you wouldn’t dare criticize CH for saying that.

        Oh, but 5, 10…. Is he being exact? Is a ten-point scale exact? Sperg talk.

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      • ““Lost all credibility”? The point he makes is that a woman can indeed become more attractive by having a good personality. Which CH also says. But you wouldn’t dare criticize CH for saying that.”

        that is the truth. feminine kindness and a sweet disposition go far in improving a girl’s attractiveness.

        and the fact is, we can all have ideals and daydream about finding a perfect 10 who is loyal and true, loves babies and begs to to give us blowjobs but most of us won’t be locking one of those down for the long term. that’s a fact.

        most of us will end up with average girls with good hearts and decent personalities and we’ll be as happy as clams.

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      • @arbiter
        A 5 is below the bangable threshold. A nice (compensating) personality does not increase the likelihood of sexual relations. It’s hardly sperg talk to disagree with an omega’s rationalization for dumpster diving.

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      • @arbiter and K

        most of us will end up with average girls with good hearts and decent personalities and we’ll be as happy as clams.
        —lmao rofl.

        oh yeah chicks got good hearts and decent personalities these days. And, of course, divorce rates ain’t that high, everyone will be hitched for life.

        🙂

        Enjoy your 5’s who magically become 10’s with nice personalities, boys!

        Dumbass rape!

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      • @whorefinder

        “oh yeah chicks got good hearts and decent personalities these days. And, of course, divorce rates ain’t that high, everyone will be hitched for life.
        :)”

        you are correct, there aren’t many with good hearts and decent personalities these days but they do exist. the fact that you aren’t finding them means you’re probably operating in a lower class social circle than i am or you’re telling yourself they don’t exist so you don’t have to face the fact that your game isn’t good enough to get them.

        “Enjoy your 5’s who magically become 10’s with nice personalities, boys!”

        never said my girls are 5s and you took Zombie’s comment too literally. a good personality adds a lot to the attractiveness of a girl. we all know that. you’re getting hung up on details because you can’t come up with a valid opposing argument.

        [CH: a good personality doesn’t add “a lot” to a girl’s attractiveness. it adds “a little”.

        keepin it real]

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      • @K the troll:

        you are correct, there aren’t many with good hearts and decent personalities these days but they do exist. the fact that you aren’t finding them means you’re probably operating in a lower class social circle than i am or you’re telling yourself they don’t exist so you don’t have to face the fact that your game isn’t good enough to get them.

        lmao. troll.

        troll rape! (and it’s not even PA…ostensibly).

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    • Um – “internal attractiveness”;
      Well I’ve seen the inside of a few vaginas.
      Not pretty.

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  5. At least the feminist version admits that external attractiveness decreases with age. It’s a shame we haven’t found a (good) way to prolong women’s attractiveness despite longer lifespans.

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    • Here are six ways:
      1. Don’t get fat
      2. Stay out of the sun
      3. Don’t have kids
      4. Eat a healthy diet
      5. Exercise daily
      6. Take Vitamin D

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    • Uh, no to number 3. You gotta put buns in the oven, that’s how a girl stays sweet and faithful.

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    • [CH: a good personality doesn’t add “a lot” to a girl’s attractiveness. it adds “a little”.

      keepin it real]
      ———————————————————————————————

      I suspect it depends on the girls age?

      The younger the girl, the more a good personality can add to her attractiveness.

      The older a girl, the less a good personality can compensate for everything else.

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    • We are getting there slowly.. We are certainly looking better than women from 1914 who had no teeth by 40 and very wrinkled. It will take another 100 years or so before we can (safely) slow down intrinsic aging. Actually when we find a guaranteed and stress free cure for cancer our world will be our lobster with anti aging because it’s the risk of stimulating bad cells as well as good cells which is preventing science from slowing down the aging process.

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  6. Succinct. In other news. yet another pinkshirt TCW (Twink Culture Warrior) bitches out and queers up.

    http://www.press-citizen.com/story/news/local/kyle-munson/2014/10/26/landon-jones-medical-mystery-urge-eat-drink/17950935/

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  7. “Her mothering instinct (does she love animals and children?).”

    The vast majority of women (~80%+ in my experience) are either one or the other – love animals and hate babies, or love babies and hate animals.

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    • actually ive never met a hot girl that likes animals. the hottest gf ive ever had dumped me after i got a dog because she hated dogs

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      • Good for her. Babies and pets are fundamentally incompatible.

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      • “actually ive never met a hot girl that likes animals. the hottest gf ive ever had dumped me after i got a dog because she hated dogs”

        noticed the same thing. girls who are really into animals are usually in the 6 or 7 range at most. and they always seem more masculine in looks and personality. manhands, manjaws, rough language, harsh with children, etc. most of them are probably borderline lesbos.

        i saw a girl for awhile who was a hot tamale in the sack and I could look past her looks and the way she dropped the f-bomb every third word but i couldn’t get over the dog hair and piss smell all over her place and the way she treated the little shits like children. she’d share food with them and let them lick her fingers and face. never washed up after and there was dog hair on everything. no feminine/motherly/respectable woman acts like that. i probably washed my hands after a piss more than she did and i never wash my hands.

        got so i couldn’t stand going to her place or thinking of how dirty she was for having those animals all over everything. wretched. something was really wrong with that chick.

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      • actually ive never met a hot girl that likes animals.

        Heh. Girls that love animals, especially little dogs or horses, get docked a point or two in my mind. (I’m actually somewhat more tolerant of cats in this regard.)

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      • @corvinus

        yep
        horses or little dogs = automatic points deduction.

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      • You ever heard of “A dingo et mah bay-bie??” Hot girls are good for one thing and one thing only, bakin’ buns in their hot little ovens with their ping-pong ball sized clit for an oven door handle.

        That is why they are called “hot” girls.

        No dog, no. The only bitches that belong in your home are of the human kind, preferably female, if possible.

        The only doggy in your home should be getting down doggy style during her ovulation cycle because sexing them up is for baby-making, fellas.

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    • same with high value guys. pet people are…simple.

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      • I used to have a small green snake. I used to rear up all bad ass and strike my hand but no matter how it tried it could do no damage; reminds me a lot of Greg Eliot.

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      • Did the snake live rent-free in yo’ haid as well, or did you have a proper terrarium?

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    • @Anonymous

      The vast majority of women (~80%+ in my experience) are either one or the other – love animals and hate babies, or love babies and hate animals.

      right on the money here. i’ve noticed the same thing. girls who are obsessed with animals ie: volunteer at the humane society, own little dogs or lots of dogs or cats AND treat these animals better than humans are usually lesbians, bitter feminists or bad mothers. you never see women who really love their animals AND love kids. it’s always one or the other.

      @slick
      “actually ive never met a hot girl that likes animals. the hottest gf ive ever had dumped me after i got a dog because she hated dogs”

      that’s the truth. i’ve noticed that there are hot girls who will tolerate some pets for the sake of their man or for the sake of the children but they usually don’t like them much. they also never put the needs of the animals before those of their husbands or children.

      @Tilikum
      same with high value guys. pet people are…simple.

      never thought of it that way but it seems right to me.

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      • love animals and hate babies, or love babies and hate animals THIS!!! Never get serious with a chick unless she understands that you want a woman to give birth to your children, not a bitch to bring home puppies from the dog pound.

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      • Ask this question on all dates.

        “Do you like animals?”

        Typical 5 or 6: “I LOVE animals!”

        Typical 7: “Sure” or “I guess so”

        Typical 7.5-9: “Not really”

        Two that stood out:

        Incredibly feminine 7 (studying to be a kindergarden teacher): “I’m afraid of animals”

        Superhot 9: “I hate animals they’re dirty”

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      • KEEPER: “Animals are okay, I guess, but what I love the most in all the world is babysitting my niece/nephew. I would do that for free if it would pay the bills.”

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      • When people ask me if i like animals, I say, “I like cows… because they’re delicious.”

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      • One exception might be horses. Lots of girls – including some very pretty ones – like horses. Maybe it’s the money factor – horses are expensive, girls LOVE expensive.
        Other than that, the observation is more or less correct, attractive women are very seldom animal people and therefore not to be trusted.
        In fact, trusting anything that walks on 2 legs and doesn’t have feathers is usually a bad idea.

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      • “attractive women are very seldom animal people and therefore not to be trusted. In fact, trusting anything that walks on 2 legs and doesn’t have feathers is usually a bad idea.”

        not to be trusted because they aren’t animal people? loving animals is not an indicator of a kind heart and superior character despite what the liberal feminists tell you. it’s the opposite. no one should be cruel to animals of course but treating them like angelic beings who are equal to or superior to humans is irrational and a sign of dysfunction in a person.

        people who are really into animals are that way because they have problems relating to people in a normal healthy way. they substitute relationships with animals for relationships with people because they are broken.

        and horse women? i wouldn’t touch one with a ten foot pole. gold digging, man-handed women who rack up more debt than they are worth. and what i said about irrationality and dysfunction goes double for horse girls.

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    • Unless they are Jews. Them you put in the oven instead of using their ovens.

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  8. Great post.
    I think there is a lot of “ageism” toward younger women from some older women. For example I was at a dinner with a group of women of family and friends various ages some months before. I remarked how stunningly beautiful my 18 year old neice is now, and how even I am 23 years old, I can see there is a difference. (But I remarked this in a very light hearted way – not an offensive way).
    Basicaly you could swear I had said something absolutely terrible. The older women started to talk that, there is no age on beauty, a woman can still look as good in her 50’s.
    (I was thinking ahh o….kay. what can I say?)
    Yes, there is beauty at all ages, but it does not mean it is the same kind of beauty. From scientific perspective FERTILITY is beautiful in women on the outside, and so for women to be deluded to the point where they can deny science and deny logic and what human beings are attracted to, is irritating.

    Inner beauty, – I am not so sure about. I have met some young women of mean character and older women kind. I think the inner beauty is very dependant on circumstance as you stated.

    Of course for women losing beauty is a little depressing. But if you have babies, grandchildren, it is less important. Each woman has their time, at that point it is time for the older woman to allow the young women to feel beautiful, and assume their role as grandmothers.

    Anyway, as you mention babies, I have good news! – On Saturday evening my dear sister give birth to a 10 pound handsome baby boy. He is beautiful. It was natural child birth – no pain relief!!!! And my other sister is due to give birth to baby girl next week! 😀 .

    Like


    • Also, someone posted photo of Helen Mirren below.
      We should not forget the effects make up has on making women look better. In a strange way, some parts of them will still look old of course, but then something else will stand out like reddened lips which signify arousal, or plumped lips which mean high estrogen and youth. So one can look at one part, and say ohhh yes, that is attractive, but somehow it just does not fit in with rest, you understand?
      Women can take a few years off with a little make up, and even young women can look more attractive with it when we consider it’s purpose, (reddening lips – sexual arousal, plump lips – youth and high estrogen, contouring – high cheek bones (estrogen?), wide eyes – innocence, youth.
      All of this on older women can often delude people in to thinking, ageing is not that harsh. Ageing is harsh, unfortunately. That is why great importance needs to be placed also on cultivating inner beauty and correct gender roles so women can age gracefuly. Instead of denying nature.

      Like


    • > “From scientific perspective FERTILITY is beautiful in women on the outside” Fertility is the be-all and end-all of female beauty. Hitting the wall == womb going barren and ovaries shrivelling up.

      Like


      • It’s science, fellas. So, jizz in a test tube and drizzle it all over that ping-pong ball sized clit like a cinnabon in her oven…

        (that is how babies are made, isn’t it?)

        Like


    • The average woman’s hatred of scientific facts that go against their interests is enormous. Much like the average leftist’s or mud’s hatred of same.

      Like


  9. I’d also say that inner beauty for females gradually decreases as the years of feminist indoctrination accumulates. Certainly doesn’t peak at 20. More like 14.

    Like


  10. on October 27, 2014 at 1:10 pm The Man Who Was . . .

    I was going to protest this a bit, but then I remembered that this is the average woman, not the women I’ve tended to date over the past few years.

    More attractive women hold onto their beauty considerably longer. They tend to peak early 20s, suffer only minor reductions in beauty in their late 20s, start to noticably decline after 30. But they don’t start to suffer major declines in beauty until about 35. Then after 40 decline starts to come on real fast, though if they stay in shape, their bodies can keep them worth sleeping with (barring alternatives) into their 50s.

    However, your average 6 at 20 is horrifying at 30. Just sayin’.

    Like


    • Right. this is about average women (who by definition are the most numerous group of women). Beautiful women (and some child-faced pixies with good bone structure) can leverage a larger window of peak or near-peak attractiveness. the inverse is also true: uglier women have smaller windows of peak attractiveness (such as it is).

      Like


      • something to keep in mind ladies is the value you present at a given time– if you are looking at long-term, which you eventually do, you (ladies) need to understand your value isn’t your peak, it is THE AREA UNDER THE CURVE TO THE RIGHT OF YOUR AGE TODAY.

        so if you want to lasso some poor schmuck when you’re 30, even if you’re basically as hot as you’ve ever been today, you are selling him a package of meat that says on a safety orange sticker– REDUCED FOR QUICK SALE.

        and rightly so. color in the area under you beauty curve and look at all of your best years you shut your husband out of already. they aren’t coming back. there’s no time machine. but if you have a daughter teach her (or if you’re 20 now) if she wants a quality mate she might consider offering a quality mate in return.

        Like


      • @burke

        good message but unfortunately, the girls who need to hear it aren’t reading this blog.

        Like


      • Unless you get a bun past that golf-ball sized clit early and often. The more buns she pops out of her oven the hotter she gets, the sweeter and more devoted she gets and the less likely she will ever be unfaithful.

        Fact.

        I have a mommy and I was once a bun in her oven. I tore that shit UP on the way out and there is no way my mommy ever thought of being a cheating whore. Therefore, post-partum is Latin for “never gonna cheat like a cheating little fuck-whore.”

        Like


      • @Zombieshame… It’s getting old

        Like


    • Burke has found the tweak that gives some sense to this graph. A 60-year-old woman, compared to a 16-year-old, may have charm and inner beauty that makes them look equal, but with the young one a man can look forward to may years of happiness with an attractive partner. Not so with the otherwise-OK grandmother.

      Like


  11. Almost no women beyond age 60 are capable of inciting genuine boners in any (white or asian) man.
    ————————————————————————-

    Im calling bullshit; the average black or Asian man has never heard of Helen Mirren; yet she is constantly touted as this 60 year old sex symbol?

    Like


    • on October 27, 2014 at 1:19 pm The Man Who Was . . .

      The post-60 Helen Mirren is not sexually attractive. Anything to contrary is media hype.

      Like


    • Hey Mikey Brown, don’t you have a convenience store to go rob?

      Like


    • hellen mirren is touted by women and (admittedly very commonly found) white-male-feminists as being a sex symbol. find a guy within two standard deviations of normal testosterone and tell him you nailed helen mirren– well don’t wait for the high five.

      she was bud dickman’s babe-of-the-week years ago on phil hendrie, and phil was probably 60 at the time, making the most retarded character on the show attracted to helen mirren for laughs. because it’s laughable.

      Like


    • “bullshit” is a word that goes well with thwacky.

      Also, CH is correct in excluding Negro males from this. As someone aptly put it, they are just a dick with a life-support system attached. Like animals they will hump whatever they can find. Everyone knows how Negro men will go after whales of any race at the night club. Well, I suppose they are conditioned to humping grotesqueries from growing up with the “women” of their own race. Remember the online-dating service that showed how Black women got the least replies of all races, and they got the least replies from all races too.

      Like


      • Hispanics (mostly Mexicans) are much the same as the negro- in that they’ll raw dog some fugly beast with no hesitation.

        Like


  12. “From birth to age 18, a girl needs good parents, from 18 to 35 she needs good looks, from 35 to 55 she needs a good personality, and from 55 on she needs cash.”

    -Sophie Tucker

    Like


  13. on October 27, 2014 at 1:22 pm Hymen Mingesky

    Where are the 30 year moving average and bollinger bands damn it?

    Like


  14. We also need a black “women’s” line for thwack masta P and other subhumans—

    flat all the way down at the bottom.

    Michelle Obama don’t-rape!

    Like


  15. @Scray @YaReally @Immoral @Kant et al.

    30 Day Challenge ends by Nov. 6. Excited to share insights from hitting the clubs! I’m still lurk-reading posts. I’ll throw up an FR in a couple of weeks.

    Like


  16. Some people think the “inner beauty” curve goes down with time, not up. Here are some of the factors that can pull it south:

    – baggage.
    – hard edges.
    – bizarreness.
    – a nasty coven of women friends lurking in the background.
    – entrenched personal habits.
    – increasing, society-stoked sense of entitlement.
    – she’s box-checking. Her motives are all selfish.
    – loss of lightness that makes it fun to be with her.

    I could add to that list, but that’s enough to give the general idea. Here’s a link to a piece that helps show how the aging hamsterette runs:

    http://www.city-journal.org/html/16_3_urbanities-grandmas.html

    Yes, they’re at the old end of the spectrum, but that helps show where things are headed and helps us be alert for early warning signs.

    Like


  17. Great example of this chart is to take a look at Diane Lane when she was 18 (see: Streets of Fire) or Jennifer Connelly at 21 (see “Career Opportunities) or Brooke Shields at 16.

    Like


    • Diane Lane proves my point above – at her peak at 37 in “Unfaithful”.

      Like


      • But then she hits the wall HARD and suddenly she’s a granny in Secretariat.

        Like


      • Zombie Shane, have you forgot that Francis Ford Coppola lavished his lens on Diane Lane in three, count-’em-three, films back to back when she was in her teens?

        This was the post-“Apocalypse Now” flopfest phase of Coppola’s career (brilliant but misunderstood!), so Lane had to wait for that long-delayed second wind, but who can deny that at 18 she was–magic?

        Like


      • I’m not disagreeing with you, but some chicks, like Diane Lane, just keep getting sexier and sexier and sexier – she is smoking hawt in Breathless at age 37 – but then WHAM!!! they hit the wall – and suddenly she is an old granny in Secretariat at age 45.

        Like


      • Oops – meant to say “Unfaithful”, not “Breathless”.

        Like


      • Point acknowledged, except that her peak is more likely to have been when she was sixteen.

        Like


      • that wasn’t her peak.peak came many years earlier.

        Like


      • It’s 1983, you and Diane Lane are sitting at a cafe, both of you are sipping from glasses of wine, and the waiter hasn’t yet brought the hors d’oeuvres. About what will you converse with this 18yo naif? Madonna? Cyndi Lauper? The B-52s? No thanks.

        Like


      • @ Zombie Shane

        “It’s 1983, you and Diane Lane are sitting at a cafe, both of you are sipping from glasses of wine, and the waiter hasn’t yet brought the hors d’oeuvres. About what will you converse with this 18yo naif? Madonna? Cyndi Lauper? The B-52s? No thanks.”

        in total agreement here but you give the guys too much credit Zombie. of course they’ll pick the 18 year old. most of them don’t even notice that an 18 year old can’t sustain a decent conversation with an adult because they are simple and immature themselves and/or they only see her as a sperm receptacle.

        those who do notice but think it doesn’t matter are pedestalizing and being unrealistic. they forget that most relationships consist of a lot more than sex. you have to actually interact with these girls…a lot. most 18 year olds are immature and boring as hell. that’s okay because they will develop their personalities over time but i for the life of me, can’t spend any length of time with girls that young before i start wanting to to gouge my eyes out. i don’t have the patience or the interest.

        besides that, if you’re an LTR guy, you want to be able to bring a girl around your friends and family without being embarrassed of her behavior. and most importantly, you have to consider how mature she might be as a wife and mother. hot or not, most 18 year olds don’t fit the bill in that regard. they aren’t mature enough to handle adult life and the responsibilities that come with it because they aren’t adults yet. without question, i’d take older diane lane over her 18 year old self. i’m not a young man who only wants girls for their vaginas and hot bods. i actually enjoy the company of women.

        Like


      • on October 28, 2014 at 12:54 pm Pijama Wearing Ninja

        @Mac, the assumption there is that women in their mid 20s aren’t boring as hell too. The reality is that they mostly spout the same vapid crap, but in a different wrapper while not having the endearing naivety of 18 years olds. I do know interesting girls in their mid 20s, but guess what? They are the same girls that were interesting at 18. And LTRs with 18 years old females are far superior to LTRs with older women simply because younger girls are moldable and pliable. Not only do they have less habits they don’t want to give up, but they are, for a lack of a better way to put it, trainable.

        And the training can be quite comprehensive, it’s not just about teaching her to suck your dick just the way you like it or whatnot. You can actually make her interesting to you because you can get her to pick up hobbies you have or read books you like. Good luck doing any of this with women in their mid to late 20s whose only redeeming quality is that they take it up the poop chute without that much opposition. The downside to having teenage girlfriends is that when they will leave you, they will entertain other men with the skills you taught them.

        Like


      • @ Pijama Wearing Ninja

        all good points.

        good wrapper or not, i’m just not interested in training girls anymore or working that hard to keep them. i prefer girls who i can tolerate as is. no more trainees or fixer uppers for me. i’ve been there done that so the appeal is lost on me.

        some of you guys will call that laziness but i’m in a good place in life where i can be myself and relax. i still have to hold my frame and deal with relationship crap like anyone else but i don’t have to hard game or search endlessly for new poozy anymore unless i want to. it’s nice.

        and good point about them leaving. i should have added that to my list of reasons why the young ones aren’t for me. they are fun but along with everything else i said, they don’t stick around for long especially in this day and age.

        Like


    • on October 27, 2014 at 9:05 pm The Man Who Was . . .

      Diane Lane was way hotter in her 20s, but still pretty hot in her late 30 in Unfaithful, and still a borderline 7 in that last interview, though heading south. She’s 6ish right now.

      Like


      • Diane Lane was definitely hot in ‘Unfaithful’, but not as hot as she was in the Carson interview above (where she at 18). In the Carson interview, she was at peak attractiveness potential, while by ‘Unfaithful’ she had fallen to ~75% (while the average woman falls to ~50% by late 30s)

        But also compare Jennifer Connelly and Brooke Shields to their late teen – early 20s selves. There is no comparison. They are nice *for their ages* now (although Shields has pretty much hit the wall now) but much, much MORE beautiful back then.

        Like


      • on October 28, 2014 at 4:54 am The Man Who Was . . .

        Oh to start out as a 9.

        Like


  18. CH – Please take on the Jian Ghomeshi story. Thanks.

    Like


  19. This is from a blog by a supposed big-time dating-champ: http://www.therulesrevisited.com/2012/01/your-age-and-your-attractiveness.html

    His claim: “I’ve dated countless women and it has always amazed me how little they know about men. If nothing else, this blog is an outlet for voicing my astonishment at the typical female’s ignorance of the male mindset. At most, it is a reliable source of advice for women who want to improve their chances with the opposite sex.”

    If that were true, then we would be having 50yo models on the runway instead of 16-18yo, since those 50+ have greater female beauty than their teen counterparts. Such a manboob – dating countless cougars and pumas – that I can believe.

    Like


    • Runway models are bad indicator of female attractiveness. The fashion industry is run by queers and women and want women that clothes look good on–coat racks—making them tall and skinny, with little care about their faces or sexual appeal. The industry caters to women and gays, not men. You might as well consult the hags on The View.

      Porn stars and bikini models are the best indicators. Non-black, hour-glass figures for 80%, with the other 20% looking like teen schoolgirls eager and ready for their first sex experience. All with nice faces, or at least covered in enough makeup to make them look alluring.

      The reason it’s young models on runways is because women put on weight as they age, and older models demand more money, and, of course, older bodies get sore from standing in heels all day. If middle age chicks were naturally anoerexic and could step around in 9-inch platforms and were cheap, they catwalks would still be full of them.

      But, still, no man would be after them…

      thwack’s subhumans, however…

      Model rape!

      Like


    • I’ve always liked that site. He does RealTalk for women. He used to have (maybe still does) a comprehensive femininity checklist that I thought was accurate and valuable.

      He also suggested an experiment for women with long hair. Instead of wearing it all the way down, he suggested we pull it halfway back, around the face. A softer look. It’s amazing how men seem to love this hairstyle, I think without even realizing it.

      Like


      • A quick look shows this:

        Fat Women Look Hotter in Tight Clothes

        “Conversations like the one above happen because men like to indulge in the idea that fat women are unattractive. It makes them feel better about their own sexual attractiveness to look down on someone else’s. If they have to slip through a logical loophole in order to do so, they aren’t going to lose sleep over it. And the girls who mock fat girls for wearing tight clothes usually just aren’t secure enough with their own bodies to wear something that tight.”

        Female Game for Girls in Their Teens

        “Avoid older men. By older men I mean men in their 20s and 30s (or older). You are not experienced or confident enough to be attractive to these men on a personal level yet. The ones that show an interest in you only want sex. And they are dangerous because they probably know how to manipulate you emotionally in order to get it.”

        (Bullshit. A youthful, positive nature willing to find new experiences is very attractive. “dangerous because they … manipulate you emotionally”. Feminist liar.)

        “Many women pour all of their efforts into relationships with men. This is understandable at some ages, but it often comes at the expense of female friendships.”

        (Suure they do. He’s seriously suggesting that women need to be encouraged to network with other women? That’s one of their main survival methods. It’s in their genes.)

        Don’t Try to Be One of The Guys

        “TIME and TIME again I meet girls that try to set themselves apart from other women by identifying with men, hanging out with men and professing to be OK with all the fucked up stuff guys do to girls.”

        This feminist does post a few good points, but also a whole lot of crap. He should just shut up and READ, not WRITE. He should be one of those learning from manosphere blogs, not trying to make one himself.

        I suspect some woman in his life is reading everything on his blog, and he must win her approval.

        Like


      • And more:

        What Men Think About Your Weight

        Here he has a chart that claims that a woman’s attractiveness is only 2 % Breast Size & Shape, and 2 % Butt Size & Shape – same percentage as Color of Clothes (!), Eyebrows, Eyes, Eyelashes, Height, Heels.

        ….While Fit of Clothes is 3 % of her attraction.

        Remember that time a guy said “I didn’t notice her tits and ass, because I was too concentrated on her fit of clothes”?

        Feminine Beauty Is Highly Controllable

        “Hopefully you noticed something important about this list: it does not include women who have “ugly” faces, or even deformities. Obviously, natural good looks cannot be overlooked, but they are given far more credit than they deserve. It is the height of hyperbole – you might even say a myth – that women are either born attractive or not.”

        (Sure. Just ignore the deformities!)

        What Men Think About Your Virginity

        “The primary reason that most men disappear after learning you are a virgin is simple but often overlooked: men don’t want the responsibility of taking your virginity.”

        (Umm….)

        The Importance of Personal Boundaries

        “A lot of girls have e-mailed me asking for my opinion of the book Why Men Love Bitches. … And the answer is simple: bitchy women have strong personal boundaries.”

        “Example 2 – A woman is asked out by a man who doesn’t show up for a date, and doesn’t apologize. If the woman has strong boundaries, she won’t hesitate to delete his contact information, and tell him when he calls back three days later that he can go fuck himself.”

        (Yeah, very attractive language there.)

        Okay, again – he has some good points too. But he lacks a lot. He should listen and learn. But he wanted to sell a book with a catchy title, “Why Men Love Bitches”, and obviously that’s what the blog is about, leading girls to that book.

        Like


      • A woman’s looks ARE highly controllable: i.e., don’t get fat!

        Are you serious about that date example? I wouldn’t put up with that either. I wouldn’t waste energy telling him off; I’d just ignore the call. (And I do just fine.)

        You all should be thanking this guy for giving girls reasonably unvarnished advice that they can use. You chase most girls off of here so they never get to learn anything.

        Like


      • on October 28, 2014 at 12:38 pm Pijama Wearing Ninja

        Arbiter, I think it requires a seriously damaged psyche to assume older men would defile and take advantage of younger women. If anything, I feel more protective of them and find their innocence and naivety adorable, especially when it’s combined with enthusiasm. I’m Machiavellian and don’t have a problem with manipulation, but I’d feel bad damaging a young girl. I don’t really give a shit about women my age. I even find the tough girl act of teenage girls endearing because of how out of touch it is. It’s like having a pet cat that thinks it owns the world. lol

        Like


      • when i see supple teenage dreams, my psyche promptly travels to a debauched place, and that place is called normal male sexuality.

        Like


      • I think it requires a seriously damaged psyche to assume older men would defile and take advantage of younger women. If anything, I feel more protective of them and find their innocence and naivety adorable

        women are naive, but not innocent. there are no innocent women, just women who haven’t met the right man yet.

        Like


  20. There’s actually precious little by way of good studies on how personality develops over the lifespan. Ideally, you’d want a largish sample, interviewed at several time points – using peer ratings – over a long period of time, say decades, with very little attrition from beginning to end. No such study exists. So we have little idea how personality evolves. Some of the best studies (which are far from really good) suggest little change if anything. One of the most believable findings is an increase in conscientiousness with time.

    That said, personality probably does change somewhat with age. We have little really good idea on how or to what extent.

    Like


    • A empirical-study-obsessed sperg blurted:

      So we have little idea how personality evolves.

      Unless you count the remarkably similar anecdotal observations of ~7 billion people currently alive. Or our common cultural heritage of literature & theater, which harps on well-known generalities of human behavior and human nature. Or the whole fucking Manosphere.

      Other than that, yeah: we’re really flying blind!

      Like


      • “Unless you count the remarkably similar anecdotal observations of ~7 billion people currently alive.”

        Because you collected them?

        “Or the whole fucking Manosphere.”

        ‘Nuff said.

        Why don’t you leave matters to people who have some idea what they’re talking about?

        Like


      • Spergs gonna sperg.

        Like


      • Indeed, read classic literature and learn from it. Knut Hamsen’s The Growth of the Soil is a good place to start – I would consider this novel about the Norwegian countryside the basis for conservatism, much more than any fleeting party program. This novel was awarded the Nobel Prize in Literature back when the prize was given by White men to good novels.

        For kids Captain Hornblower’s Adventures are good novels, especially for those in the Anglosphere. They show a British captain exploring the sea and observing other cultures. Books like Robinson Crusoe, Lord of the Flies and Call of the Wild should also be included. And Candide, for a humorous take on the world around Voltaire’s time. Get a version where the numerous references to the Tribe haven’t been criminally eliminated.

        Like


      • Time for GBFM to repost his list of the masterworks, for to enlighten da sperg.

        Like


      • on October 27, 2014 at 4:48 pm FuriousFerret

        You don’t understand, Heywood, the only way something can be true is if you have large empirical studies proving beyond a shadow of doubt they are true.

        Is water really wet? Is it? I’m not convinced until we spend millions of dollars to find out.

        Does a bear shit in the woods? Don’t know. Probably better order another multi million dollar study for that as well.

        /Sarcasm

        Like


  21. According to the original chart a 65 year old woman is equally as attractive as an 18 year old?

    Like


  22. As a famous Frenchman once wrote: “Beauty is nothing other than the promise of happiness.” In other words, the promise of what is to come is a big part of it. And if there is the promise of screwing like bunnies with a 9 is out there, knowing that you are going to get dressed and leave as soon as you are done,that is part of the beauty. And if there is the promise of sitting on the couch next to an overweight 50 year old watching reruns of CSI for the next 30 years, that enters into the equation as well.

    Like


  23. This chart must be for Caucasian women, White women tend to age much more rapidly and Asian woman, black women, and some Latinas tend to hold up much better as they grow older. From 25-40 they pretty much look the same. For Asian women, by the time they are in their 40’s there is a slight decrease in attractiveness but they still pretty much look the same until 60 when POOF, they turn into gremlins. ( http://www.geekinheels.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/average_asian_woman_aging.jpg ). Ive noticed Black women tend to age the best. In Latinas, the ones with more European blood will age the worst while the morena’s age much better.

    Like


    • No

      Like


    • no.

      Like


    • lol. just lol.

      Like


    • You are correct CD; most detectives know you hafta add about tens years when estimating a black persons age because of their skin.

      Like


      • lmao. oh yeah thwack masta P, you and your kneegro kind are all experts on “detective” procedure

        subhuman rape!

        Like


      • LOL Bullshit. Blacks look older than they are because of their extremely bad skin. Blacks have the worst skin of all races. Not only because of defective genes but because Blacks fill their mouths with garbage and malt liquor. Watching Blacks buying groceries for their welfare money leaves you disgusted. They buy any crap they can find. Loud and smelly too. Fact: Blacks have the worst smell, they stink. That is because Blacks have much more of the bacteria that die and rot in sweat, causing it to stink.

        Like


      • Arbiter, that reminds me of an old joke

        Why do back people smell?

        So blind people can hate them too

        Like


    • Weapons-grade bullshit.

      Like


    • Asian women perhaps yes, but black and Latinas on the whole definitely age worse than white women.

      Obesity is one major reason.

      Also, by race, blacks and Latinas are most likely to get pregnant in their early 20s, white women in their late 20s, and Asian women in their early 30s. You could argue that it’s because of single-mommery among the NAMs, but be that as it may, black and Latina women in their late 20s are usually too fat and ugly to want to have anything to do with.

      Like


      • corvinus

        Obesity is one major reason.
        —————————————————————————

        Obesity is something a person can counter with diet and exercise.

        Like


      • There are actually quite a lot of Hispanic girls who are pretty hot in their teens and 20’s, but they pay a heavy price. By 32-35, the percentage of attractive Latinas is down to near 0.
        They do get pregnant early and often, starting around 13 or so. Not uncommon in this area to come across grandmothers in their mid 30’s.
        Disagree on the Black girls. Very, very few of them are attractive to begin with, but the ones who are can remain so for quite a while if they take acre of themselves and don’t get fat.

        Like


      • Obesity is something a person can counter with diet and exercise.

        In your case, fried chicken, watermelon, and running from da po-leece, amiright?

        Like


      • Bernard Hopkins is 50 years old.

        Like


    • A simple explanation is that young black or mestiza women don’t look a tenth as good as young a white woman, so their decline is unnoticed — or that they started out looking froty to begin with.

      Like


      • on October 27, 2014 at 7:12 pm The Man Who Was . . .

        A simpler one is that dark skin ages better than light skin given the same amount of sun exposure.

        Like


    • Fact: Blacks have the worst smell

      Jefferson observed that blacks have a peculiar smell. He said that they expel fluids primarily from the glands, rather than the bladder.

      Anyone who has any real experience with black knows that peculiar smell.

      Like


    • on October 27, 2014 at 7:21 pm The Spirit Within

      CD, I don’t know why these assholes ganged up on you. You’re right.

      I would change “white women” to “blonde women”. They make the earliest collision with the wall, and it’s because of their delicate skin, particularly if they spent lots of time at the beach or live in the Southwest.

      Triple bankshot high-five on the Latina observation. My experience lines up exactly. Those little squirts of indigenous and African DNA pushes the wall about ten years back for the triguenas.

      Like


      • “CD, I don’t know why these assholes ganged up on you. You’re right.”

        it is true. whether you like dark skinned girls or not, more melanin in the skin protects it from the sun which usually results in fewer wrinkles. some darker skinned women even have more collagen than white skinned girls. it’s moronic to argue about something that is so obviously true.

        Like


      • Happens all the time here; Greg Eliot said Hendrix was over rated.

        Maybe he was drunk?

        Like


      • Heh, heh… all the usual suspect shillers come out to half-heartedly defend negress beauty.

        After the mid-thirties, who cares about a few wrinkles?

        And before that, likewise… wrinkles or no, the skin is still shit-coloured, the hair is dark and nappy, and the noses and buttocks are bulbous.

        More cream-than-coffee Halle Berry, Vanessa Williams, and the can-I-try-to-look-any-whiter Beyonce… these are not your father’s Oldsmobiles.

        lzlzozlzozlzozlzozlzozlozlozlozl

        Like


      • Melanin-schmelanin… I just can’t get past them ashy elbows. lzozlzozlzozlozlzoloz

        Like


      • on October 28, 2014 at 8:29 am The Spirit Within

        Greg, read for comprehension, you dimwit. I was discussing triguenas, not Africans. Look up the term if you don’t know it.

        Like


      • Who was talking to you, shekelgrubber?

        My comments were mostly for my resident whipping boy… the order of responses just happened to fall where they may.

        But on the subject, you yourself praised “African DNA”, dweeb…

        Thou thimble… thou thread…

        Thou fairy.

        Like


      • Triple bankshot high-five…

        Geez, Louise… a new low in high-spergdom. lzozlzozlzozlzozlzozlzolzolzol

        Like


      • on October 28, 2014 at 10:28 am Pijama Wearing Ninja

        I agree with you and CD about this, but I’d like to see a study that controls for body fat percentage since subcutaneous fat makes wrinkles less visible.

        Like


  24. I think there should be a separate line for femininity of personality. The older women who are attractive seem to have retained that softer, feminine sweetness. Many women in their late 20s have already hardened.

    Like


    • “I think there should be a separate line for femininity of personality. The older women who are attractive seem to have retained that softer, feminine sweetness. Many women in their late 20s have already hardened.”

      i’ll probably get some heat for this but i have to agree with this to some extent. today’s 20 year olds are aging a lot faster than in the past due to poor diet, lifestyle choices and cock carousel.

      i met some girls the other night who showed this perfectly. there was a set of twins. i thought one was at least 5 or 10 years older than her sister based on appearance and bad attitude. one had settled down young and skipped the cock carousel while the other partied it up through her 20s and 30s. drastically different appearance and attitude.

      the other girls included the twins’ younger sister and a couple friends. the kicker is the younger sister was still in her 20s but i thought she was the same age as the young looking twin who was in her late 30s. her friends were also in their 20s and looked just as old. tragic.

      Like


      • on October 28, 2014 at 10:29 am Pijama Wearing Ninja

        “the kicker is the younger sister was still in her 20s but i thought she was the same age as the young looking twin who was in her late 30s. ”
        Something doesn’t add up. How can twins be in different decades of their lives? lol

        Like


      • @Pijama Wearing Ninja

        “Something doesn’t add up. How can twins be in different decades of their lives? lol””

        there were three sisters. the twins and a younger sister. one of the twins looked about 10 years older than her twin because she partied and her twin sister didn’t. the youngest sister also looked to be a partier and it showed.

        the twins were late 30s…at least and the younger sister in her mid 20s. the twin who had partied looked the oldest. the better looking twin, the youngest sister and the youngest sister’s friends all looked about the same age give or take a year or two.

        my point was, you can see the difference between a girl who didn’t spend her youth partying and banging guys and girls who did. girls in their mid 20s should not look as old as women in their late 30s even if the late 30 year old looks good for her age.

        but a lot of young girls are aging quickly like that and it’s not just a select few low class party tramps the way it used to be. it’s the new norm.

        that younger sister should have been the younger hotter version of her older sisters but she wasn’t because she has taken her youth for granted and abused her body.

        Like


  25. on October 27, 2014 at 2:04 pm ArrogantDrunk

    BOTY Candidate 2014 – Levy: http://www.phillymag.com/philadelphia-wedding/2014/10/27/watch-tissues-wonder-epic-proposal-took-17-months-plan/

    Where to start?! Over the top proposal, financial debasement, Nancy Kerrigan teeth – the list goes on.

    Like


    • +1 for the early-90’s reference.

      Like


    • That’s one HUNGRY vibrant for the white meat.

      Like


      • Robert Griffin the 3rd married “a Becky”; Rebecca Liddicott, former Hooters girl from Denver.

        You can’t get much whiter than that; at least not in the states?

        Shouldn’t we all be so lucky?

        Like


      • RG3 is, at least his public persona, what we non-blacks were promised blacks would be like when society was “fair.”

        Unfortunately, since you monkeys cal him a “cornball brother”, he’s clearly an outlier, and you uncivilized apes of Ferguson are the true face of blackness.

        I think the most fitting thing would be to line up the cornball brothers like RG3, Russell Wilson, CLarence Thomas, and Alan Keyes in front of y’all, give them uzis, and just kinda turn the cameras off.

        don’t worry though; raping babies will save you from AIDS!

        rape!

        Like


      • Yes, her father is a failure and was absent either emotionally, physically or both.

        Like


      • When did you win the Heisman?

        Oh thats right, you never played the game;

        do you even lift?

        Like


    • on October 27, 2014 at 9:27 pm Hammer of Love

      What is it with Asians and nail salons ? The bastards have a monopoly on them or something.

      Like


  26. what are you guys dressing up as for halloween? any ideas for good pickup costumes

    Like


  27. on October 27, 2014 at 2:19 pm When Negroids ATTACK!

    Thin-toned and pretty wins the race, regardless of age. Didn’t you see Madchen Amick in a bikini on Californication, at age 39-40 or so? Much hotter than when she was on Twin Peaks in her 20s. Monica Bellucci in Tears of the Sun, in her 40s? Right hand of the curve, I know, but you get the point. But for most chicks, if they’re running to fat, etc., yes, they hit the wall pronto.

    Like


    • no. Age>BMI.

      Like


      • on October 27, 2014 at 4:40 pm When Negroids ATTACK!

        Like


      • Madchen Amick is a super hottie, and still looks great at 40, but remember that as good as she looks now she looked hotter at 21.

        the only example i can think of where a woman looked better older than younger are former fatties who later in life lost a ton of weight and had natural beauty hiding underneath the whole time.

        Like


      • What’s that picture supposed to prove? I have seen countless teenage girls who look far better. But they are not celebrities, so to a certain type of sheep-like human they don’t count. Some will only look at what television puts in front of them as a measurement.

        I heard some female host on TV refer to Cindy Crawford as “one of the most beautiful women alive”. What? At age 45? There are millions – millions – of teenage girls and twenty-somethings who look better.

        Crawford’s face is elongated by age. The face never stops growing, so while most women will avoid the horse-faced reality of Jewish women, they still will get elongated faces. And models get that hard-jawed, avian look, perhaps from constantly taking pills to reduce their weight.

        Like


      • on October 27, 2014 at 5:13 pm The Man Who Was . . .

        Judging by that photo, she’s still an 8-8.5 in her late 30s. It happens.

        She looks hotter younger though.

        Like


      • She looks hotter younger though.

        Still, unfortunate Irish jaw there.

        Like


    • Some women have really cherubic features which make them look like cabbage patch doll heads in their 20s. These are the rare women that actually look better in their 30s, than their teens and twenties because they had such overwhelmingly babyish features to begin with. They end up looking like 20 somethings in their 30s. But yes, it’s rare.

      Like


      • on October 28, 2014 at 10:36 am Pijama Wearing Ninja

        “cherubic”
        Even if someone doesn’t approach and doesn’t learn game on this blog, they will surely leave with a more extensive vocabulary.

        Like


  28. First time commenter and long time reader – would appreciate opinions from YaReally, HABD and other experienced guys (HABD – didn’t you post recently that you turned your marriage around?)

    Married 35 year old dad of three. Just started having sex again with wife many months after birth of third kid (i.e., first time in 5-6 years we’ve started a sex life that doesn’t revolve around planning kids). And had a real shock.

    I’m a good 1.5-2 SMV points higher than my wife.

    Sex has generally been infrequent in the last few years – it’s not hot planning it around trying to conceive – although lots of times it was me turning her down and sometimes having sex under pressure. But when we do it it’s decent, if routine (both of us cum). Very vanilla, no dirty talk, etc (she has – very occasionally – complained that I’m a bit boring in bed, usually as a joke). Kids and logistics are a pain of course but honestly that’s not the main reason it’s been so infrequent.

    I’ve always known I have other options potentially (but locked into marriage now cos of the kids) and that plus the SMV difference (plus financial dependence) means she isn’t going to leave me. It means there have been flashes of alpha in me, but in a lot of ways I’ve been behaving really beta with her (especially after we had kids).

    Now in the last couple of years I’ve been cheating on her when travelling for work and working on my game (I wasn’t a total AFC when I met her – I had read The Game, had a couple of SNLs etc). But since then there was a gap of many years when I did nothing and then in the last couple of years I’ve become a lot better.

    Still a long way to go but on my last business trip I fucked two women on the first date, spanked them, talked dirty etc and made out with a bunch more women, all in a two week period – in other words, pretty decent at sexual escalation and giving off the player vibe. But around my wife and our social circle I pretty much act like before – same dutiful husband, never (for e.g.) make a comment about the hot dancers when she watches Dancing With The Stars or whatever.

    But had the most bizarre experience a few days ago after resuming our sex life. Sex was okay and we both came etc but my normal dominant stuff – the kind of stuff women younger and hotter than my wife loved – just didn’t work. I was trying to make the sex more fun (she initiated it!) and not mechanical but..

    She just didn’t like me being dominant in bed and telling her what to do and wouldn’t respond which was a very discordant feeling after getting used to how well other women respond to this. She was trying to tell ME to do stuff (and I mean TELL, not ask). We had some bizarre frame battles literally during sex – like she’d tell me to do X and I would say “say please” and she would refuse and I wouldn’t do it..

    I wonder if she’s one of the minority of women who is not submissive in bed or just doesn’t see me as high-value enough any more to be submissive TO.

    She’s generally pretty feminine and emotional as a person. She made a very revealing comment a few days ago – something about how when she first met me she thought I was one of the “most self-confident guys” she’s met…but now she thinks I’m “pretty messed up inside” but “you’re the guy I married”

    Another thing – my wife always uses lube when having sex – I can’t remember any of the other women I’ve banged, including the recent ones (about 15-20) ever needing it. I don’t know if my wife is just unusual or she’s just been less turned on than the other women.

    It’s just been a really rude wakeup call in a way. Even in my blue pill days it was easy to rely on my SMV being sharply higher than her plus the fact that (pre-marriage) I had much less invested and could easily walk away. Even after learning about the manosphere (and then fucking other women) it was almost like because I was a cool, confident alpha with *other* women, I could ignore the effect of my behaviour on my wife..but I guess I can’t.

    [CH: hm… picking up a faint bouquet of troll in this comment. but, let’s give you the benefit of the doubt. for now.]

    Like


    • Hi TheMarquis, thanks for your story.

      What happened is that you have became your wife best friend.

      After years of observations, and deep thoughtful reflections, I don’t recommend befriending your own wife.

      Because friends are equal. And equality kills attraction.
      A woman wants to be your “little girl”, and you “the father”.
      She is obedient, you have authority. That is what they want. No friendship.

      Friends make you feel good, but they don’t give you vagina tingles.
      In your case, the solution is to simply change your behavior, very slightly, everyday.

      It is not that she dislike you being dominant, it is just that she is not used to that behavior. She fears losing a friend, or losing the dominant place she has in your family as “The Mother”.

      I suggest you behave bravely. Go caveman. Take what is yours. Slam doors. Disappear 3 days.

      Please keep us informed.

      Like


    • What, exactly, are your questions?

      Like


    • About lubricant, some women will simply be drier than others no matter what. That is not unusual.

      Wouldn’t living together for many years, with kids, take the edge off things? And if you haven’t been dominant with her in the years before, then starting to be dominant must be difficult. Not impossible though.

      But yes, some women like it and some don’t.

      I remember introducing a girlfriend to dirty talk, and she had never experienced it before. What I do is, I tell a girl what to say, for example what to ask for, and she does it. “You’re a dirty little girl, aren’t you?” “Yes.” “Say it!” That way she can still be the innocent girl who is just forced to say things. This girlfriend told me she could never have sex without dirty talk again.

      It is amazing to me how apparently most guys are just silent in bed. Women love it when you talk with each other instead of buttoning up like you’re embarrassed of what you two are doing together.

      Like


      • Hey, Married guy: don’t take any advice from this quarterwit racist douchefart. Arbiter here’s just on his way back to the Wal-Mart checkout from his break, weren’t you buddy? There you go, move along.

        Like


      • Yes, countless girls have asked me to be more vocal. But I can’t really get into to unless commanding her.

        Most men are probably quiet in bed with women because, as boys, we’ve made a habit of masturbating in silence to avoid detection.

        Like


      • Hey, Married guy: don’t take any advice from this quarterwit racist douchefart. Arbiter here’s just on his way back to the Wal-Mart checkout from his break, weren’t you buddy? There you go, move along.

        LOL The thwack loser nigs never cease to amuse. They have nothing to say, all they can do is spew out their ignorant hatred of the world.

        Like


      • At least try to make some sense in your attempts at insults, nig. “Wal-Mart” when I’m not even in the U.S.? And at night? What an idiot. But then again, a coward who doesn’t dare use his ordinary username when writing can’t be expected to do any thinking. Now go back to stuffing your face with Doritos and squeal like a little pig in your loneliness. Then reach with shivering hands for your greasy keyboard and try to type without shaking too much. I can see that I am pushing your buttons, that’s great. I’m gonna keep pushing them and make your pulse speed up as you feel that panicky response coming back once again.

        Are you sweating now? You are, aren’t you? So funny.

        Like


      • Douchefart? Dweeb, could you BE any more of a South Park sperg?

        Men are talking here… run along, you bastard spawn of single motherhood…

        You fairy.

        Like


    • She knows…..you are radiating it in waves, and is probably getting ready to self eject.

      Lemme guess…shes about 31?

      You are getting ready to get divorced homie. Thing is, your behavior likely didn’t cause it, it was gonna happen anyway.

      Advice: Get an asshole lawyer NOW and write a retainer check…..ESPECIALLY if you have kids. You HAVE to black knight like a motherfucker from this point out, otherwise that little sweetie pie is gonna eat your asshole Tyson style.

      Like


      • THIS.

        I am a lawyer AND I have been through a divorce. Start hiding your money now and preparing for the end of your marriage. I came out so much fucking better in the divorce than other guys I know simply because I played the game well.

        The SOONER you do it, the better. You ain’t into her and she ain’t into you.

        Maybe…MAYBE you stay together for the kids. But you need to be PREPARED for when she pulls the trigger if she does. You have to start protecting yourself now.

        If SHE is seeking advice on this…dude, she’s going to a site for women and they’re telling her to start opening her own bank accounts and getting ready to split with the kids and every dollar in the joint accounts.

        Like


    • on October 28, 2014 at 10:17 am having a bad day

      @themarquis

      …lol…cool story, bro…lol…

      even if you are a troll…lol…there’s a lot of good stuff in here to comment on, and if you’re not a troll, understand that exaggerated bravado doesn’t change your situ…lol…but i understand the impulse/reason for it…lol…so here goes…lol…

      “First time commenter and long time reader – would appreciate opinions from YaReally, HABD and other experienced guys (HABD – didn’t you post recently that you turned your marriage around?)”

      yep, no big secret…red pill/game saved my ass…lol…in more ways than one…lol…

      “Married 35 year old dad of three. Just started having sex again with wife many months after birth of third kid (i.e., first time in 5-6 years we’ve started a sex life that doesn’t revolve around planning kids). And had a real shock.

      I’m a good 1.5-2 SMV points higher than my wife.”

      that happens if a woman does as the red pill knowledge dictates and marries a man with potential at a younger, hotter, tighter age (her highest SMV)…that gives him (you) her best years and in return she gets your best years (highest SMV) later…congratulations on that…lol…wife googles come into play here…lol…

      “Sex has generally been infrequent in the last few years – it’s not hot planning it around trying to conceive – although lots of times it was me turning her down and sometimes having sex under pressure. But when we do it it’s decent, if routine (both of us cum). Very vanilla, no dirty talk, etc (she has – very occasionally – complained that I’m a bit boring in bed, usually as a joke).”

      there is more truth in joking around than not…especially with women, who communicate on many levels at the same time…

      “Kids and logistics are a pain of course but honestly that’s not the main reason it’s been so infrequent.

      I’ve always known I have other options potentially (but locked into marriage now cos of the kids) and that plus the SMV difference (plus financial dependence) means she isn’t going to leave me.”

      you need to rethink this asap…lol…the risk is all on your end, not hers…she still will get financial support from you even if she leaves…it’s not called divorce rape for nothing…the Courts don’t care if you can afford to eat or not after all the child support/alimony is paid…and the power of the state will insure that she gets paid…also, your SMV might not be as high as you think it is…lol

      “It means there have been flashes of alpha in me, but in a lot of ways I’ve been behaving really beta with her (especially after we had kids).”

      you mean having a normal blue pill relationship?…lol…

      “Now in the last couple of years I’ve been cheating on her when travelling for work and working on my game (I wasn’t a total AFC when I met her – I had read The Game, had a couple of SNLs etc).”

      sure you were…unless she started out a couple of points higher in SMV than you were, you were AFC/thirsty beta/happily-ever-after all the way…no shame in that, most of us started in the same position…but not owning this is going to get in the way of your ‘recovery’…

      “But since then there was a gap of many years when I did nothing and then in the last couple of years I’ve become a lot better.

      Still a long way to go but on my last business trip I fucked two women on the first date, spanked them, talked dirty etc and made out with a bunch more women, all in a two week period – in other words, pretty decent at sexual escalation and giving off the player vibe.”

      maybe…lol…that depends on the quality of the women…lol…dumping a couple loads into random fatties or post-wall cougars doesn’t make you a player…lol..and NOT converting on all those other make outs really proves the point…lol…

      “But around my wife and our social circle I pretty much act like before – same dutiful husband, never (for e.g.) make a comment about the hot dancers when she watches Dancing With The Stars or whatever.”

      this is the only place that it really counts…lol…

      “But had the most bizarre experience a few days ago after resuming our sex life. Sex was okay and we both came etc but my normal dominant stuff – the kind of stuff women younger and hotter than my wife loved – just didn’t work. I was trying to make the sex more fun (she initiated it!) and not mechanical but..

      She just didn’t like me being dominant in bed and telling her what to do and wouldn’t respond which was a very discordant feeling after getting used to how well other women respond to this. She was trying to tell ME to do stuff (and I mean TELL, not ask). We had some bizarre frame battles literally during sex – like she’d tell me to do X and I would say “say please” and she would refuse and I wouldn’t do it..”

      the bedroom is NOT the place to make ‘changes’… it’s for ‘profit taking’…lol…enjoying the changes in the rest of your relationship that lead to better bedroom play…lol…

      “I wonder if she’s one of the minority of women who is not submissive in bed or just doesn’t see me as high-value enough any more to be submissive TO.”

      nah, you’re still beta…and i’m aspergery enough to recognize my own…lol…

      “She’s generally pretty feminine and emotional as a person. She made a very revealing comment a few days ago – something about how when she first met me she thought I was one of the “most self-confident guys” she’s met…but now she thinks I’m “pretty messed up inside” but “you’re the guy I married””

      yah, it’s amazing how aloof/asperger tendencies present as ‘self-confidence’…lol…you’re confusing her by not being consistent. this is a normal result of focusing on the superficial aspects of red pill/game and not understanding the internal shifts you need to make…

      “Another thing – my wife always uses lube when having sex – I can’t remember any of the other women I’ve banged, including the recent ones (about 15-20) ever needing it. I don’t know if my wife is just unusual or she’s just been less turned on than the other women.”

      why do you care?…some ego thing?…concern for your wife’s health? if your wife needs lube to be comfortable, but is still willing to have sex with you, you should view that as a win for the home team…lol…and suggest she get checked by a doc to make sure it’s all good…lol…

      “It’s just been a really rude wakeup call in a way.”

      it always is…lol

      “Even in my blue pill days it was easy to rely on my SMV being sharply higher than her plus the fact that (pre-marriage) I had much less invested and could easily walk away.”

      too late now…lol…we all play the hand we’re dealt…lol…also, her SMV was equal to or greater than yours when you got married…don’t discount the hit your SMV took/takes by being AFC/beta…but i recognize ego salve when i see it…lol…again, not owning your actual situ is going to get in the way of progress…

      “Even after learning about the manosphere (and then fucking other women) it was almost like because I was a cool, confident alpha with *other* women,”

      you only count as a cool, confident alpha if those other women are higher SMV than you…lol…random fatties and post-wall cougars don’t count…lol

      “I could ignore the effect of my behaviour on my wife..but I guess I can’t.”

      nope…like above…this is the only place that it really counts…lol…

      good luck!

      Like


    • on October 28, 2014 at 10:20 am having a bad day

      hmmmm…wordpress is still constipated…got another one stuck in the stack…lol…

      Like


      • Geez, dude… drop the overuse (or any use at all, for that matter) of “lol”, will you?

        It stinks of nervous laughter.

        Like


      • @Aleste81 @trav777 @Tilikum @HABD @Arbiter and others – thank you for the responses.

        I don’t know why CH thinks I’m a troll but I’m not. Give me some credit – if I wanted to troll I’d have done a better job of giving the racists, anti-Semites and keyboard jockeys here something to froth about.

        Someone asked what my question is – it’s this: “How can I fix this?”. Because I think it’s possible and I think there’s still enough there that she’s not going to leave (at least no time soon). Besides, I don’t want to see my kids only on the weekends.

        Having said that, yeah, it’s time to at least make plans about protecting myself in divorce.

        Some savings cash has already been hidden (not because of divorce – just because the wife is a spendthrift and it was easier to hide the cash than explain to her why she couldn’t spend it). And my career is finally taking off now and I’m starting to make decent cash and build my savings after years of struggling after we got married (and I paid off all her credit card debt from before marriage AND a “fairytale” wedding too – that wiped out all my pre-marriage savings).

        @HABD – thank you for the detailed comments:

        -I can niggle with some of your points, but yeah you’re spot on the broader point – some of my post was me trying to salvage some ego (albeit all true). And I guess I’ve pretty much been in a normal blue-pill relationship. And yes you’re not the first to say I have a touch of aspergers

        -The other women – sure, they weren’t turbohotties but they *were* younger and hotter than my wife and they were into me. Hey I did say I have a long way to go – but at least I know the path now. (I’m a 7. Maybe 7.5-8 on a REALLY good day. And going up – both in career/status and game skills. Wife is a 6 and declining. The two recent women were 7s).

        -What do you mean by “focussing on superficial aspects of red pill game and not the internal shifts”?

        -What are the next steps? How do I put the red pill into action with my wife? How did you do it?

        Like


      • on October 28, 2014 at 10:29 pm having a bad day

        @themarquis

        “I don’t know why CH thinks I’m a troll but I’m not. Give me some credit – if I wanted to troll I’d have done a better job of giving the racists, anti-Semites and keyboard jockeys here something to froth about.”

        fair enough…

        “Someone asked what my question is – it’s this: “How can I fix this?”. Because I think it’s possible and I think there’s still enough there that she’s not going to leave (at least no time soon). Besides, I don’t want to see my kids only on the weekends.”

        it IS possible to fix this. and i’m living proof…as long as she hasn’t boned some other guy or filed the paperwork, you still have time…how much depends on your situ…but the sooner you get on it, the better your chances…

        “Having said that, yeah, it’s time to at least make plans about protecting myself in divorce.”

        the two are not mutually exclusive…

        “Some savings cash has already been hidden (not because of divorce – just because the wife is a spendthrift and it was easier to hide the cash than explain to her why she couldn’t spend it). And my career is finally taking off now and I’m starting to make decent cash and build my savings after years of struggling after we got married (and I paid off all her credit card debt from before marriage AND a “fairytale” wedding too – that wiped out all my pre-marriage savings).”

        welcome to Blue Pill Recovery Services…lol…

        “@HABD – thank you for the detailed comments:

        -I can niggle with some of your points, but yeah you’re spot on the broader point – some of my post was me trying to salvage some ego (albeit all true). And I guess I’ve pretty much been in a normal blue-pill relationship. And yes you’re not the first to say I have a touch of aspergers”

        like i said, i can recognize my own…lol…

        “-The other women – sure, they weren’t turbohotties but they *were* younger and hotter than my wife and they were into me. Hey I did say I have a long way to go – but at least I know the path now. (I’m a 7. Maybe 7.5-8 on a REALLY good day. And going up – both in career/status and game skills. Wife is a 6 and declining. The two recent women were 7s).”

        that’s not too bad for a start…but there’s 2 sides to ltr/marriage recovery…learning how to PUA (to understand girls in general and to hit the ground running if you can’t spin the marriage trajectory around) and turning around years of beta behavior/expectations in your wife’s headspace…they reenforce each other, but they’re different problems…

        “-What do you mean by “focussing on superficial aspects of red pill game and not the internal shifts”?”

        aspies/omega/keyboard jocks/pua haters/etc. all seem to believe in the ‘magic words’ approach to game…stand here…stop her there…face this way…say this magic word…BOOM! k-close/number!…and that’s what it looked like when i started…but it doesn’t work like that (which is why they don’t think pua is true…lol)…your internal value set/expectations of how life IS needs to change from blue pill illusion to red pill reality…

        BUT…when you do that ‘magic word’ stuff enough times, what happens is that your internal dialogue starts to change…from ‘wow, i can believe she didn’t slap me when i touched her arm to stop her on the street’ or ‘i can;t believe she didn’t call the bouncer to have him kick my ass and throw me out of the venue’ to ‘hey, this is pretty cool…i can get cute girls to talk to me for 3 minutes (was a 1000% increase for me…lol) just by stopping them randomly on the street’ and ‘i should talk to THAT girl over there bc she is even cuter than the last one i talked to in the coffee shop yesterday’…lol…

        it trains your brain (with its instinctive beta wiring…) to KNOW that an alpha male isn’t going to show up and kill you just for talking to a fertile female…it also trains your brain to KNOW that women have NO power over you just bc they have a pussy…lol…and that’s bc there are soooo many of them around you…that’s where the abundance mentality comes from…

        it also trains your brain to understand that saying/doing stupid shit is not going to kill your ‘chance’ with a hottie…lol…and also that you can recover from making mistakes or if things go sideways…if you just keep trying to turn things around – that’s where most of your learning comes from anyway…lol…

        “-What are the next steps? How do I put the red pill into action with my wife? How did you do it?”

        the overall steps that worked for me were 1) understand the theory 2) research anecdotal examples/game analysis to understand what i was going to be up against…lol…3) make a plan to make an incremental step forward 4) ditch that idea as too scary…lol…5) understand the difference between blue pill action/outcomes and red pill action/outcomes (predictions) 6) start testing/observing in my normal day-to-day interactions (red pill predictions ALWAYS were accurate…) 7) amass enough data points 8) flip to a new reality in line with red pill knowledge as true 9) make a plan based on red pill knowledge and advice to improve my interactions with girls (and my wife, too…lol) an incremental amount 10) take action 11) rinse and repeat a couple hundred times as fast as you can get the interactions under your belt…

        talk to girls/women wherever you find them (cashiers, girls sitting next to you at lunch/coffee shop/bus stop/etc, girls walking down the street AKA day game…) (start with just saying ‘hi’ and making/keeping eye contact with her…then go up from there…) anything to get an interaction with a real live girl under your belt…and also chat with guys, too (but don’t try to pick them up…lol) just get comfortable with conversation and holding up YOUR end of one…that’s where being a cool, chill guy comes from…(plus it gets you out of your head…lol) eventually (if you do it enough), you will get bored with just ‘talking’ to the girls and start to push those interactions in a more sexual direction (that’s your goal)…and eventually you’ll get bored with that and you will start seeing how soon you can get [goal = number, kiss, insta-date, make out…etc.] that happens bc you realize that there is ALWAYS another one 3 minutes away and heading your way…lol…

        also, at the same time, start to ‘push back’ on your wife’s expectations regarding her position in your marriage (read my advice to newlyaloof in some recent threads…) she’s going to push you (shit test) back and try to keep you in the beta box she has you slotted into…the proper all purpose response to a shit test is agree and amplify…agree with whatever negative thing she says, then exaggerate that idea back at her, then change the subject and ignore whatever the original comment from her was…just try it once and observe her reaction = data point (red pill action/response)…rinse and repeat as opportunity allows…you already know how she reacts to your response to her shit testing now, right? = data point (blue pill action/response) see which one works better for you in the long term…lol…

        also, i should mention one thing that confused me when i started…girls are a biological system not a mechanical system…lol…when PUAs say ‘do this…then this happens’, they don’t mean happen like right away with a mechanical system (‘i pushed the button and the machine started’), they mean right away like a biological system (‘i ate a burrito and i had to take a dump right away’ (2 hours later))…lol…

        here’s an action plan…if you haven’t done this, go to Rational Male (the link is on the bar at the right up top) and read about the theory of feminine imperative (the most important overall theory to understand…) and hypergamy (alpha fux/beta bux) and the related subjects over there…next, go through the archives here…there is a ‘categories’ pull down menu on the right. search through that for interesting topics and read, read, read…lol…it’s ALL true btw…lol…

        go to YaReally’s archive and read, read, read…again, ALL true…lol…regardless of what the haters seem to think, it all tracks with my experience in validating/vetting/applying red pill/game knowledge…

        if you have specific questions, ask away…lol…if someone doesn’t answer it, just ask again later in another thread or other comment bc chances are we didn’t see it…

        good luck!

        Like


      • on October 28, 2014 at 10:31 pm having a bad day

        @themarquis

        wordpress constipation…again…

        Like


      • @HABD. Thanks dude – that’s gold.

        Already read loads of Rational Male and YaReally’s stuff.

        I will start implementing your suggestions and see where I get to..and pair it with “regular” game learning – I want to be fucking (or at least capable of fucking) 8-9s.

        LOL at “biological system” vs “mechanical system”

        Coincidentally, my wife threw some shit test at me today (not even important what) and got upset. Relatively minor, but instead of asking her about it repeatedly I just ignored it and continued whatever I was doing and two minutes later she was back to normal…

        Like


      • on October 29, 2014 at 4:08 pm having a bad day

        @themarquis

        “LOL at “biological system” vs “mechanical system””

        ya, it’s funny, but i sometimes think that all the aspy pua haters are making this mistake…lol…

        “Coincidentally, my wife threw some shit test at me today (not even important what) and got upset. Relatively minor, but instead of asking her about it repeatedly I just ignored it and continued whatever I was doing and two minutes later she was back to normal…”

        = red pill data point…lol…also, you can now start to shape/model her behavior…which is the overall goal… attention = reward…(that’s true for any girl you interact with…)

        you ignored her shit test, so it extinguished the behavior in the short term…(just like training a dog…lol) now you can start to encourage other, more positive behaviors (being nice/pleasant, making you a sandwich, etc…) by giving her attention when she does that behavior…and as with dog training, variable reinforcement/variable reward schedules create most enduring behaviors…lol…punish promptly (withdraw attention – positive OR negative…,) reward slowly and intermittently (give attention), but reward more quickly when you start to reward those behaviors…review some animal behavior modeling explanations if you need the details…lol

        or this…attention = chocolate…lol…

        good luck!

        Like


  29. My lovers keep mentioning that I’m “guarded and cynical” about women. Of course I’m dismissive and nonchalant when they bring it up.

    Still. I wonder if this is a bad thing… or a very good thing.

    Like


    • It’s a good thing.

      Like


    • on October 27, 2014 at 4:39 pm Hair Slicked Back With Swag So Fresh

      If you keep wondering, they’ll pick up on your insecurities and they’ll cease to be your lovers. Keep them dicked down and they’ll shut their own mouths… except when they’re shouting out your name in ecstasy.

      Like


    • on October 28, 2014 at 10:45 am Pijama Wearing Ninja

      Every single woman I fucked accused me of being arrogant, mysterious or inaccessible emotionally. So don’t fret too much about what the lovely princesses say insofar as they’re getting your dick wet.

      Like


  30. My lovers keep mentioning that I’m “cynical and guarded” when it comes to women. Of course I’m dismissive and nonchalant when this is brought up.

    Still, I wonder if this is a bad thing that they think this… or a very good thing.

    Like


  31. on October 27, 2014 at 2:30 pm I ENJOY FAJITAS

    My lovers keep mentioning that I’m “cynical and guarded” when it comes to women. Of course I’m dismissive and nonchalant when this is brought up.

    Still, I wonder if this is a bad thing that they think this… or a very good thing.

    Like


    • on October 27, 2014 at 2:32 pm I ENJOY FAJITAS

      I think the only clue I give them might be that I say I don’t want to get married or have children. I don’t go into reasons though.

      Like


    • I was dating a young gal. When she broke up with me she said “You’re jaded, cynical, and emotionally unavailable”.

      I said “jaded? you call me jaded?”. Visions of opium dens and brothels flashed through my mind.

      She replied “Oh, you’re very jaded.”

      As for the other epithets I felt they were normal male attributes and made no protest.

      Like


  32. The Japanese will solve this problem for us (men) in a few decades.

    Oh, and this is doll is for aging cat ladies infecting with a severe case of baby rabies.

    http://www.amazon.com/The-Breast-Milk-Baby-Breastfeeding/dp/9800096272

    Like


    • Pouring drinks from a doll’s breasts. Wow.

      Japan is also the only country where you can buy women’s used panties in vending machines. These are no doubt tucked away in brothels, and may not be many, but the fact that they exist at all is astounding. There seems to be a strong drive in Japan to compartmentalize sex, to take it apart and present it in pieces, to take away the terror of talking with an adult woman without a safety net.

      Like


      • 15 years in Japan and I’ve *never* seen one of those machines. If any still exist, they’re well-hidden indeed.

        Like


  33. I’d say most women’s personalities actually peak before their looks do. While a girl remains with her parents (both of them, of course), she is mostly bubbly and feminine with a naturally positive outlook. Once she enters the cock carousel, she inevitably coarsens and hardens over time. Innocence and experience.

    Like


    • on October 27, 2014 at 4:41 pm Hair Slicked Back With Swag So Fresh

      That’s what I’ve noticed, too. Once she moves out, dick moves in.

      Like


    • on October 28, 2014 at 10:51 am Pijama Wearing Ninja

      I second this. When they start working, their personalities get even worse.

      This being said, I was talking to a 17 years old English girl last night on the phone and I got her talking about her life. She lives with her mother that allows her to come home with a string of boyfriends because both are ‘allowed to date and bring boys home’. I don’t even know who single mothers hurt more: their daughters or their sons.

      Like


  34. Heartiste you’re more generous than I.

    Especially with the fat pandemic crippling women far and wide.

    I must admit that I’ve never found a gal whose personality could compensate for ugly… though I’ve rejected beauties with ‘issues.’

    Child rearing and cultural creativity are totally opposed life vectors.

    Children need to be raised in the same old way — and to be acuturated conventionally. When they aren’t, weird value-sets are imprinted, like anti-Americanism.

    Feminism is a torqued attempt by bitter lesbians at cultural creativity. Birth nihilism is the result. “Birther” started out in the (San Francisco?) lesbian community as an epithet against the pregnant.

    Not surprisingly, women with ‘fresh ideas’ are mating disasters. Their new way of living almost invariably translates into childless living.

    The best coupling is between a younger lass with childlike wonder who ‘thinks’ with her womb, and a passionate man.

    Whenever a gal develops her mind outside of a LTR she loses her femininity. For she inevitably transgresses onto matters best left to masculine intellects.

    To illustrate how alien masculine thinking is for women — check the stats on hard STEM degrees. ( Perversely, whenever a gal does persue an engineering degree, she’s hit on by classmates like crazy. Obviously, the boys are unaware that she’s virtually certain to be a terrible mother — if a mother at all. )

    The Darwinian demands of motherhood and fatherhood really are a Yin and Yang pairing. So don’t anyone go out and marry their reflection.

    Like


    • Indeed:

      ”Marriage as an institution developed from rape as a practice.”
      — Andrea Dworkin, feminist author, homosexual activist, former prostitute

      ”When a woman reaches orgasm with a man she is only collaborating with the patriarchal system, eroticizing her own oppression…”
      — Sheila Jeffreys, homosexual activist, professor of political science at the University of Melbourne, Australia

      ”The institution of sexual intercourse is anti-feminist”
      — Ti-Grace Atkinson, homosexual scholar and advocate of ”political lesbianism”,
      early member of NOW

      ”Female heterosexuality is not a biological drive or an individual woman’s erotic attraction or attachment to another human animal which happens to be male. Female heterosexuality is a set of social institutions and practices… Those definitions… are about the oppression and exploitation of women.”
      — Marilyn Frye, homosexual activist, quote from Willful Virgin: Essays in Feminism, 1976-1992

      ”Heterosexuality is a die-hard custom through which male-supremacist institutions insure their own perpetuity and control over us. Women are kept, maintained and contained through terror, violence, and the spray of sperm… [Lesbianism is] an ideological, political and philosophical means of liberation of all women from heterosexual tyranny…”
      — Cheryl Clarke, highly prominent homosexual activist, on the graduate faculty of the Rutgers University Department of Women and Gender Studies, quote from Lesbianism, An Act of Resistance

      Like


      • By the way, this is in response to backchecking’s comment about the homosexual women and their hatred of the normals. Google “crazy feminist quotes” for more.

        Like


    • ”Life in this society being, at best, an utter bore and no aspect of society being at all relevant to women, there remains to civic-minded, responsible, thrill-seeking females only to overthrow the government, eliminate the money system, institute complete automation, and destroy the male sex.”
      — Valerie Solanas, feminist writer, SCUM founder (Society for Cutting Up Men), homosexual, Marxist, would-be murderer of Andy Warhol

      ”Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women’s movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage.”
      — Sheila Cronin, homosexual activist, leader of the feminist organization NOW

      ”Ninety-five percent of women’s experiences are about being a victim. Or about being an underdog, or having to survive… women didn’t go to Vietnam and blow things up. They are not Rambo.”
      — Jodie Foster, actress, homosexual, quoted in The New York Times Magazine

      ”And if the professional rapist is to be separated from the average dominant heterosexual (male), it may be mainly a quantitative difference.”
      — Susan Griffin, homosexual activist, Emmy Award winner, quote from Rape: The All-American Crime

      Like


    • ”If life is to survive on this planet, there must be a decontamination of the Earth. I think this will be accompanied by an evolutionary process that will result in a drastic reduction of the population of males.”
      –Mary Daly, homosexual activist, professor at Boston College where she refused to admit male students to her classes

      ”I believe that women have a capacity for understanding and compassion which man structurally does not have, does not have it because he cannot have it. He’s just incapable of it.”
      — Barbara Jordan, homosexual, congresswoman, adjunct professor at University of Texas

      Like


    • ”If the classroom situation is very heteropatriarchal – a large beginning class of 50 to 60 students, say, with few feminist students – I am likely to define my task as largely one of recruitment … of persuading students that women are oppressed”
      –Joyce Trebilcot, homosexual, professor at Washington University

      Like


  35. Female inner beauty is a huge deal WHEN we’ve sunk to current societal depths. Sure, in the 1700s, when every woman was forced to be cheerful, feminine, reserved, quiet, etc; conversations on inner beauty would have been somewhat futile. Feminine 16 year old white virgins were overflowing in the American sexual market as an option to marry. There were few outliers in that kind of society (lucky guys) that could even hold a candle to the average woman’s bitch torch today.

    Now the inverse is true. The outlier is the kind, maternal, patient, feminine young woman. If there is a sexual market, then there is supply and demand. And the supply of these nice women has become so scarce, the price goes up. That’s simple sexualnomics I guess. A nice woman (based on the aforementioned traits) is worth WAY more than a half point in SMV.

    I have a long time friend (known him since childhood) who has spent his life making beta mistakes. I don’t feel bad for him because he is completely oblivious to his own betaness and is a mild leftoid that is arrogant in his leftness. Any white man who is left of center is a masochist. The rundown:

    -He married the first girl he had sex with.
    -She was a 10 in college, now she is sloping HARD at age 27. Starting to really resemble her insane alcoholic mother.
    -She’s very charismatic with others, and now works 60 hour weeks in marketing. (Shocker). She leaves him at home alone most evenings because she’s working late, and she also takes semi frequent business trips.
    -She expected him to move to her college town while she was in school. He dropped everything and obliged. She expected him to move to the city of her choosing so that she could pursue her career when she graduated. He obliged. They BOUGHT a house there, and after ONE YEAR, she decided she wanted to go back home. She easily secured a job and left him to handle the selling of the house in her experimental city, living apart for a few months even though they were married.
    -She is excessively flirtatious with other men, including his two brothers. It’s a sickening sight.
    -She is an only child of 1%ers.
    -She regularly talks down to him and emasculates him in front of others. At one point she even ran a blog about the stupid things he would say, and would post the links on social media.
    -She took her bachelorette “weekend” out of town, and came back to say she “”””made out”””” with a guy that weekend and that “it would be okay” if he made out with a girl on the night of his bachelor party. I was there, I don’t think I need to tell you whether or not he got any action.

    Heartiste once said “pussy is the holy grail”. I would offer- being respected by pussy is the holy grail.

    My friend’s wife WAS a 10. That’s changing, and changing hard. Her inner beauty is a zero, but it’s typical of today’s American woman. My friend fell for the idea that a woman’s attractiveness is 9/10 physical. Now he’s got a woman who is going to look like a fat Joan Rivers by 35, and with no personality to counter it. When she inevitably has someone else’s baby at 32 and demands a divorce out of sheer boredom by 35, we all know she’ll come out with more than him.

    If I HAD to be married (I’m not), I would much rather live my life coming home to a cheerful patient 7 than a typical American 10. Hell even a cheerful patient 6 would be better than the life my friend has in store. I prefer doggy anyway, and as long as their hips are wider than their waist, wtf is the difference? You can say “work on your game and find an external10/internal10” all you want, but let’s be serious, this is America we’re talking about.

    /rant.

    Like


    • on October 27, 2014 at 6:47 pm yournordicgod

      There’s no such thing as a 10

      Like


      • Yeah I know. 9.5. You get what I’m saying. She was the type of girl EVERY man looked at excitedly when she was in college. And yes it’s a sad story. This is a guy that I had known for 16 years, and then a couple years ago I just decided I couldn’t take it anymore, and quit hanging out with them. I got in a bad mood just watching them exist. Between her obnoxious presence and his arrogance in being beta (yes, arrogant betaness), I had to flee.

        Like


    • on October 27, 2014 at 8:12 pm yournordicgod

      That is a truly sad story. The only thing that’s even sadder is that it’s so typical these days.

      Like


    • “At one point she even ran a blog about the stupid things he would say, and would post the links on social media.”

      Wow. That is one dead marriage.

      How could he be so dumb as to marry the first woman he had sex with?

      One thing though: “one percenter” is leftist propaganda talk. Started by the left-wing extremist “Occupy” movement, which was started by a group funded by globalist George Soros. They want people to feel as if those with a higher income are not part of the people – ever the leftist tactic. In fact, we need all strata of society. And those in the upper one percent of income are actually a very diverse group.

      And why “one percent” – as if the leftists would want to leave the 98th percentile alone. (I.e. those with a higher income than 98 percent of people. The “1%” are the 99th percentile, there is no 100th percentile.) Or the 97th. Or the 60th, for that matter.

      Like


      • She actually ran the blog before they were even engaged. He has no concept of “red flag”.

        I know, I have no feelings either way about what income class people are in. It was shorthand for- “she was a spoiled brat only child of extremely wealthy parents and was used to having her way all the time, prime alpha fux beta bux material”. The “only child” part (especially being female) was just as important as the “1%” part.

        Like


  36. Anyone else hear a slide whistle in their heads when looking at these graphs?

    Like


  37. About the deteriorating personality, that makes me remember Matt Forney’s thoughts on the Philippines. What a contrast. I recommend his story “How to Protect a Nation Against Feminism, Marxism and Sluttiness” to everyone.

    “Filipinas have just as many rights as American women: they go to college, get jobs and can do just about anything a man can, exempting joining the army or any other career field that requires masculine strength and virtue. There are even policewomen here. Yet the girls in this country are affectionate and feminine to a degree that I thought was impossible for humans to be. Even the girls studying or moving into more masculine career paths—for example, I briefly dated a girl who was headed to law school—would make even the more feminine ladies back home look like dick-clitted dykes.

    “The college, career and smartphone fetishes that American girls are afflicted with are completely absent here.”

    From another article:

    “Filipinos actually don’t drink a lot. They love to party, they love karaoke parties, they love to enjoy themselves, but they actually don’t drink a whole lot. ”

    Another:

    “this country is probably ideal for men who get sick of playing the game and want to settle down with a loyal woman. Not only that, Filipinas will actually reward you for being a decent human being. Amazing, isn’t it?”

    Another:

    “The Philippines still values female modesty and chastity (at least in public), meaning that revealing outfits are a no-no for girls.”

    Like


    • Aside from the writings about women, one Matt Forney article I recommend is “Brief Thoughts on Living in the Philippines.” Especially the end of it when he compares it to living in the U.S.

      http://mattforney.com/2014/07/28/brief-thoughts-on-living-in-the-philippines/

      6. Despite being in a supposedly authoritarian country, I feel freer in many ways than in the U.S.

      In the Philippines, I don’t get carded at the bars. I can slug a can of Red Horse beer on the streets of my little neighborhood and nobody gives a shit. Yesterday, I watched a taxi driver get out of his cab and piss on a wall in broad daylight. The policemen and soldiers guarding the malls and businesses are polite and courteous. They’re not looking to lord their power over the little people; they just want to do their jobs and go home. When I was seeking entry at the airport, the immigration officer asked me a grand total of one question before stamping my passport. The other Asian countries I passed through are the same way. For example, when I was going through security in Tokyo, I realized I’d lost my boarding pass. The Japanese officials let me through anyway because they knew the only way for me to get a new pass was to go to the airline desk past the security checkpoint.

      Contrast this to the treatment I got in the U.S.

      When I was boarding my flight in Chicago, some fat black TSA asshole flagged my bag because I was carrying a container of Aztec Secret Indian Healing Clay, forcing me to dig through my belongings to prove it wasn’t a liquid. When I went to Las Vegas to meet up with Davis Aurini, Aaron Clarey and the Bechtloff, the TSA flagged my bags going there and back because I had a bottle of contact lens solution. Every time I drive past a state trooper in the U.S., I feel a twinge of fear and pray he doesn’t need to meet his ticket quota by busting me for going five over the limit.

      Americans proclaim themselves “free” even as their lives are governed by an ever-growing list of draconian laws. You can’t set fireworks off on your own property. You can’t buy a gun without the proper permits, and even then you can only buy the guns that the government lets you buy. You can’t renovate your garage without bribing the local homeowners’ association. You can’t obtain testosterone cream (or any kind of useful drug) unless you beg your doctor for a prescription. You can’t speak your mind without an angry mob of left-wing misfits screaming for your head.

      In contrast, provided you stay within the straight and narrow, the Philippine authorities will leave you alone.

      Like


      • on October 28, 2014 at 11:13 am Pijama Wearing Ninja

        What I find farcical is America lecturing other countries foreign policy(e.g. the current affair with Russia*) despite yours being based on unilaterialism and pre-emptive military attacks on countries who might threaten your hegemony or when you lecture other countries on corruption despite the purpose of defense contracting there being to funnel money into well-connected organizations that then pay their dues by contributing to political campaigns and hiring retired senior officers as consultants and despite the fact that the SEC there drops criminal investigations in exchange for money and the person handling the investigation being hired as a consultant for the financial institution being investigated.

        I’m not sure if a more hypocritical country ever existed, although the US is ruled by people who profess their love for diversity while living in white gated communities so it shouldn’t be surprising. It would be comical if your influence and propaganda wouldn’t have infected Western Europe since 1945 and Eastern Europe since 1989.

        *I’m Eastern European and I do have a typical Eastern European attitude towards Russia.

        Like


      • You can’t buy a gun without the proper permits

        Hey, you need to leave NY, MA, NJ, MD, HI, IL, and emigrate to the actual United States.

        Case in point, here in WA. At 6:15pm tonight, my youngest happened to stop by and, while he was leafing through the mail and newspapers, I happened to notice Sunday’s Big 5 Sporting Goods ad. OMG, they’ve got a Savage Axis II in .308, with scope, for $350 after rebate. Holy cow, a bolt-action .308 has been on my wish list for quite a while, and this price is *ridiculously low*. A quick google of reviews shows that yes (as I already knew) this is part of Savage’s entry-level line, but yes (as I already knew) they have cut hardly any corners and yes (as I DIDN’T know) nobody’s whining about other flaws.

        At 7:40pm I’m out the door, into the nearest Big 5 at 8:00pm, and at 8:20 it’s mine and I’m on my home. That’s the way it is, and should be, in the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave! Why don’t you flee Commiefornia or whatever-other socialist hellhole you live in?

        Like


    • I finally met my buddy’s Filipina wife in person. She basically has everything I ever liked about my wife without most of the things I never liked about my wife. I can see why he gets so excited talking about her. She’s really pretty, and sweet, but she has a lot of common sense, and she’s used to getting by on the cheap.

      She’s also VERY, VERY, VERY religious, as is her entire family, and her entire social sphere, which turns out to be a pretty huge deal for me. I am about as at home in a church as Vlad Dracul, but I’m comfortable with this area of my life, and not looking to change. I wouldn’t be comfortable having to go through the motions of church life to keep one of these girls in her comfort zone.

      Meeting my friend really inspired me to make changes in my marriage, and I have a lot of the same things now. I’ve been looking over the fence and whining about how I’m settling for a shit sandwich, but what I’m really doing is picking a price point and sticking with it. I like fine things, but I’m only willing to pay for above average things, and that’s my choice.

      At least I’m finally owning it, instead of whining.

      Next up, I have to face the fact that no matter what I know about the nature of women, I still have attractive females on a pedestal 100 miles high. I need to find some way to cure that.

      Like


  38. There are no category errors in the graph. You have misapplied the term.

    Like


    • Sperg.

      Like


      • spegroid

        Like


      • I like mocking spergs as much as the next guy, but shut up. Correcting a glaring error is normal.

        Like


      • Aww, poor thwack couldn’t come up with something original. Thwack is really grasping now.

        “a glaring error”? No. CH’s point was well made. It doesn’t rest on your definition of this term. Typical sperg behavior to only attack a word definition that doesn’t even matter to the point being made when they aren’t able to respond in any other way.

        Like


      • Typical sperg behavior to only attack a word definition that doesn’t even matter to the point being made

        CH invited the reader to find the category errors. I know what the term means so I looked for them (in vain). This detracted from the enjoyment of the post, so it does matter.

        [CH: misappropriation of punchy terms is a common clause of artistic license.]

        Like


  39. on October 27, 2014 at 6:45 pm yournordicgod

    Females 25 years & older are dead to me.

    25 (for females) IS the wall.

    I know that if I’m with one 25 years old or beyond, I’m selling myself short/settling.

    That is.. unless she’s rich.

    There are many things the baby boomers parents taught them(that were common knowledge back in the day) but they never taught us, because it wasn’t “politically correct” they thought.

    Some of these things we need to bring back to awareness to our generation and this is one of them……. if you can marry rich, do it, it’s often better than to marry for love. In fact it used to quite a common thing for a Dad to teach his son & many famous & great mean men did just that but now it’s “taboo”?

    Remember the old adage, there’s only four ways to get rich?:

    1. Born with it

    2. Start a business & make it(anything from laundromats to law firm/medical office/ investment bank/to writing books etc. anything)

    3. Real estate investing with partners $$

    4. MARRY RICH

    I don’t know about you, but I’d rather go home alone than waste time with these old (27yrs+) used up broads.

    Why should we reward these [email protected] carousel riding [email protected] for their misadventures in feminism and give them our attention?

    We should all collectively IGNORE these wall facing females once & for all and just wait,.. next time feminists publish a chart such as this, it will be HONEST for once & even far less generous than the relatively kind but accurate chart CH has published above.

    Like


    • Marrying the typical college skank is the very antithesis of marrying rich. You get the pleasure of paying off her student debt. Maybe she has some credit cards too. A short while later she starts to feel unhaaapy.

      Smarter to, as they say, just buy a house and give it to a woman you don’t like.

      Like


    • on October 28, 2014 at 11:23 am Pijama Wearing Ninja

      This is my marriage philosophy too. I’d get married only if:
      1)she’s rich
      2)she’s fairly close to my version of the female ideal
      Since modern culture creates women who are the antithesis of said ideal, I’d say there are higher chances of me marrying rich. I’m not religious so I’ll just have children out of wedlock otherwise. I’m also glad I’m the citizen of a jurisdiction that doesn’t have large child support payments. lol

      Like


  40. Virginia Madsen, 1984, age 23

    Like


  41. The manipulative intent of the original graph was successful on me initially. I’d say this is an example of the anchoring effect, where prior exposure to one number tends to influence the final number someone settles on. When I saw the first graph, it influenced me to think more generously, and be more forgiving of women in their 40s and 50s. I thought about all the exceptions I’ve met, instead of the teeming masses of women who follow the redrawn red curve closely. For every 55 year old with a tight little ass who exudes sexy, there are probably a million or more drab sacks of female flesh. Upon closer examination, the original graph is obviously contrived bullshit, but techniques like this work so well, because human beings rarely examine anything closely.

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    • “For every 55 year old with a tight little ass who exudes sexy, there are probably a million or more drab sacks of female flesh.”
      Do you mean 45 year old?

      Like


  42. If this were a graph of men’s attractiveness it would actually be pretty close. Physical looks should peak a little later and internal attractivness should decline a bit after the age of 60 as a man loses some of his virility and mental acuity, but it’s not too far off.

    As a graph of women’s attractiveness…Scalzi would approve

    Like


    • If this were a graph of men’s attractiveness it would actually be pretty close.

      Thread winner. Change the X axis on the first graph to “Change in Male Attractiveness with Age”, use CH’s graph for females, and we’re all good.

      Like


  43. Jessica Biel hitting the wall hard, at age 30, in Total Recall remake.

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    • Like


    • Where the fuck is that considered hitting the wall?

      Do you live at the playboy mansion?

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      • Jessica Biel, age 20: HB 9.9+ and on top of the world.

        Jessica Biel, age 30: HB 6.9- and fading fast.

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      • Doesn’t help that she became YKW…

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      • on October 28, 2014 at 9:40 am Pijama Wearing Ninja

        Considering how hot she was 10 years ago, yes, that’s hitting the wall. She went from someone who I masturbated furiously to in my early teens to someone who looks no better than the way the average girl looked like when I was at university.

        Give her 5 more years.

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      • lol. yes actually! But jessica biel NEVER was the most beautiful actress in the world though. One recent, sad and similar case though, is a girl who actually WAS the most beautiful girl in the world , Amber Heard. Smoking hot about 4 years ago as a guest on that criminal minds show. She still had the baby fat & everything.

        Now she’s past her prime & fading fast which i think proves my 25 = wall theory.
        The part I can’t figure out though is when exactly is the peak? I’ve heard some people say they don’t like the baby fat as much as when they lose it briefly and their face looks a little more angular, but imo thats symptomatic proof they’ve hit the wall.
        Is peak during baby fat years or is it the point in which they lose the baby fat on their face (for a brief moment) & then straight shot downhill?

        Anyway…. I also do wonder as I’m sure most men do, who is the hottest girl in the world now(actress whatever)?

        J :Lawrence before she hit the wall recently..??

        I have no idea. The media doesn’t seem to highly publicize perfectly gorgeous”10’s” celebrities anymore. The feminists must not like it. Seems like we have a bunch of mediocre even fugly sex symbol females nowadays.

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  44. Wow CH, impressed… this is so thoughtful… really great explanation on inner beauty, elderly women, etc. Love it!

    Like


  45. Found where it came from: http://www.therulesrevisited.com/2012_01_01_archive.html

    Quote

    These curves are based on observation and careful thought, not empirical data.
    Internal attractiveness consists of personality, femininity, openness, etc.
    External attractiveness consists of weight, natural looks, hair, clothes, etc.
    Percentage of potential means the level a woman achieves relative to what she could achieve, taking into account uncontrollable limitations such as body shape (not to be confused with weight), facial structure, etc.
    Combined attractiveness is a weighted average of internal and external attractiveness.
    Internal attractiveness is weighted at 40 % importance.
    External attractiveness is weighted at 60 % importance.
    Don’t pay too much attention to the values on the vertical axis. What matter more here are the rough values on the horizontal axis, i.e. when the peaks or changes occur.
    This is typical, not representative of all women. See this page for example variations.
    Other sources have real studies that are interesting and tend to agree with this illustration.

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    • “Don’t pay too much attention to the values on the vertical axis.”

      Making a graph to base his argument on, without bothering to get it right? That ain’t working, that’s not the way you do it.

      Claiming that a 60-year-old woman is as attractive as her 17-year-old self, whether in a graph or in words, is not just a small detail, it’s absurd. There are not just small tweaks to be made here and there in the graph, it is grossly wrong.

      “External attractiveness consists of weight, natural looks, hair, clothes, etc.”

      Clothes don’t matter when it comes to determining how hot a woman is, which depends on face and body. Clothes only matter when determining if she is a feminist idiot or the like – inner attraction – and that is only when she gets them very wrong. As long as she’s just at the least wearing normal clothes they will be mostly ignored.

      “Percentage of potential means the level a woman achieves relative to what she could achieve, taking into account uncontrollable limitations such as body shape (not to be confused with weight), facial structure, etc.”

      So. If she doesn’t have the facial structure to be attractive … but she is as attractive as she can be with that facial structure … that means she “achieves her potential” and gets a high score? No matter what she actually looks like?

      Let’s try something similar at a math test. “This student scored only 50 out of 100. But that’s his max potential score with that brain. So he gets an A.”

      Actually, that is indeed leftist policy when it comes to grading Blacks.

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  46. I made it my mission this year to apply everything I’d learned in game to start to go for what I had been missing: younger hotter tighter.

    The difference is astounding. When I was in my 20’s I didn’t notice a difference between 20 and 30 and 40 year olds because I had no perspective. Ploughing through different scenarios in my 20’s and 30’s I was making a mess of things and women didn’t respond.

    Learning game and then being clear in my intent with girls in their 20’s is like entering a world I never knew existed.

    This concept of “inner beauty” is really projection. Guys will shower on a girl those magical qualities they desperately WANT her to have. it’s perception.

    I’ve found that the difference with these girls in their 20’s is that the “inner beauty” is in the form of a largely open-mindedness to new experiences.

    Game is critical to this. But the rewards for older dudes are worth the efforts to get it right.

    One girl in her 20’s I’m banging laughed showing me some clingy loser’s texts to her saying this:

    “This guy I met, he texts me crazy stuff every day….doesn’t he get it? he writes these long paragraphs and I respond with one word. Don’t guys get when they write long paragraphs and a girl responds with one word they’re just not interested.”

    It was insightful for two reasons. My texts are much shorter now. But why is she continuing to engage this loser if she isn’t interested? She wants to be nice? She likes the attention even thought the dude repulses her? She finds him amusing?

    I laughed…but took note because I know the dude in question. He is a loser and she is like a kitten with a ball of string.

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    • Congratulations for sharpening your game. It is a great feeling when you see results from game you have learned. It’s like you’ve suddenly discovered magic.

      She keeps texting him one-word replies because she doesn’t want to be rude by not replying.

      As always, the rule with all electronic contact is to limit it. The goal for all such contact should always be to meet in person.

      I’ve found that the difference with these girls in their 20’s is that the “inner beauty” is in the form of a largely open-mindedness to new experiences.

      As someone wrote, “Young girls are FUN.” Hard to argue with that.
      An open-mindedness to new experiences, that could be it, yes. It is sad when you see older people who will just do the same thing over and over again.

      It reminds me of a novel where vampires live openly in Britain. (Only read a review, never found the novel.) They just keep repeating the same habits they had as humans. An officer at Scotland Yard notes that his now-vampiric colleague smokes a pipe every day simply because he smoke a pipe as a human. I think of that when I see some people do the same things…. You can’t convince them to change their food habits, can’t tell them about new research about grains actually not being very good for you, because they refuse to learn anything that would require them to change their habits.

      Once in their lives, their will formed their habits. To have will of your own is the definition of life. If they now only follow their habits and not their will, are they truly alive?

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      • @Arbiter The “you mean you can do that?” comes to mind. I was always feeling boxed in as I got older to find “age appropriate” women. Now I have this feeling of complete freedom. I won’t let other people judge me. Game gave me that self-acceptance. As for “beauty”…I may be jaded but I can’t imagine myself with someone over 30 anymore. Before I was buying the bullshit of some of my colleagues who refer to ‘your child brides”…but they’re stuck aren’t they?

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      • on October 28, 2014 at 9:59 am Pijama Wearing Ninja

        Young people are fun. My male friends are getting older and most of them are becoming boring too, so it’s not just the women. It makes me pine for the insane times when we’d drive up the coast and stop and bathe in the sea in every small town along the coast. Being called and asked to join people’s spontaneous decisions to go on trips to the mountains or wherever. The insane raves and partying for days without sleeping. Having our taxis followed by people in other taxis to ask us where the afterhours are at. The funny dorm parties and exchanges of stories of slutty small town girls we banged and all that insanity.

        I do get that aging makes keeping this kind of thing going forever impossible(I don’t want to look like a prune at 35 which is what happens when you do drugs and party consciously), but you can still be a fun person that does random and insane shit like that once in a while. If anybody in their late teens read this, do as much crazy shit as you can when you’re young(within reason aka don’t get yourself killed or in prison) because it will only get harder later in life unless you have $100 million like Bilzerian. I took decisions during that time based on the belief that in our late 20s we will do the same thing on rented yachts in Ibiza, but that’s unlikely to happen.

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      • @walawala “you mean you can do that?” indeed. That’s what I felt when I started doing cold opens. Holy crap, it actually works, I thought. I met new women I wouldn’t have met otherwise. Got dates I wouldn’t have had otherwise. Slept with a lot more women. Met a sweet girl who I was in a relationship with for a year and a half. Thanks, manosphere!

        Yes, they will tell you to only date women above thirty because that’s what they do. The right attitude to that is to be very matter-of-fact about why you date women in their twenties. Though I have met sexy women in their thirties too. All of them petite, sweet-looking women, which is what I look for mainly.

        @ Pijama Wearing Ninja – My twenties weren’t that active, but it sounds like fun. But now in my thirties my two best friends still have fire in their blood. One of them lives with his girlfriend and their children, and she would definitely want him to be less fiery. I send them manosphere links from time to time, I haven’t kept in contact with any guys who don’t like the truths we see here.

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    • “This concept of “inner beauty” is really projection. Guys will shower on a girl those magical qualities they desperately WANT her to have. it’s perception.”

      uh yeah, that’s exactly what you’re doing with that girl you described. you just told a story about a rude immature girl who is leading a guy on instead of being straightforward with him and then makes fun of him to some guy she’s banging.

      you can call it open-mindedness to new experiences if you want but that isn’t inner beauty your girl has. that’s the darkness in her heart that ZS talks about.

      I’ve found that the difference with these girls in their 20’s is that the “inner beauty” is in the form of a largely open-mindedness to new experiences.”

      Like


    • I’ve found that the difference with these girls in their 20’s is that the “inner beauty” is in the form of a largely open-mindedness to new experiences.

      Yup. I saw exactly that this weekend when I saw a girl I met 3 years ago at age 22. We hooked up on and off for a month before I moved away. Stayed in touch and met her for a week long sex vacation a year and half ago. We randomly ended up being in the same city this weekend.

      Seeing her punctuated by long spans apart makes the subtle changes in her personality much more apparent.

      At 22, she did anal on the first date. Pretty much any visit to a bar included sex in the bathrooms. At 25, she turned me down for the kind of public sex she used to be game for several times. At 22, hitting was a-ok as long as I didn’t leave any marks. At 25, after I slapped her medium hard she told me she wasn’t as comfortable being hit in the face any more.

      As caveats, I was dealing with other shit so my game wasn’t horribly on this weekend. My vibe itself is pretty boyfriendy beyond saying a lot of filthy shit and fingering her/whipping out my dick whenever we get a moment alone. She knows enough about my ambitions and has spent enough time among my friends to have mentally slotted me in as a potential provider and no longer a pure lover, even though she plays it cool and doesn’t push for provider shit.

      Still, there are things I think every guy who’s with her now will experience. She used to not be interested in kids, now she does work on the side with them because she’s trying to figure out if she’s interested in having any of her own. She used to be utterly proud when bragging about her sexual exploits (her discretion in phrasing was very charming too, never made me feel like I was hooking up with a slut). Now although she’ll brag, there’s a certain ambivalence about her experiences that wasn’t there before. It comes across like the carousel ride taking its toll.

      This girl who I really liked has become a bit more set in her ways and has lost a bit of her girly, bubbly charm even over the course of a few years. Seeing it was subtle but shocking.

      Like


    • on October 28, 2014 at 9:49 am Pijama Wearing Ninja

      When did you start sarging? I’ve read your comments and you seem to have improved a lot in the last 6 months based on what you’re saying, but I’m curious of the learning curve you experienced.

      Like


    • The purpose of agitprop (agitation and propaganda) was to motivate the Bolsheviks and demoralize the rest. A constant stream of such images and headlines flashing before us is designed to do just that. And demoralize it does, those who are still ‘blue pill.’ Demoralization takes various forms, from despair, to confusion, to Stockholm syndrome, to a sense of unpersonhood.

      The last one is what those under the effects of PCP describe as a sense of lacking a physical body — and what Lawrence Auster (the late, great analyst of the metaphysics of leftism) described as Whites being framed as bodiless beings who lack a concrete physical identity and culture, and are only capable of good or evil as measured by their attitude toward non-whites.

      Naturally, comments under that article are turned off. The article can be picked apart in moments by anyone here, or just search the net for “black privilege”

      America is a communist country; does anyone here have any lingering doubts? Look at a defense industry web page. Conservative stuff, eh?
      http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/who-we-are/culture.html

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    • It’s funny, but all of the problems his son will supposedly have to face are due directly to the actions of cultural Marxists (affirmative action) or black people themselves (suspicion about potential criminal behavior).

      But no, blame white “privilege”. Got it.

      Like


  47. After 30… white female beauty starts declining and by 40s it is almost gone. Asian females age a bit slower esp

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  48. I agree that the decline from mint condition is steeper. Like a new car.

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  49. Hypergamy….the historical relevance is dubious but the narrative of two women competing for the same man demonstrates the lengths any woman will go for the man she deems high value… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQQ0X9ABXqM

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    • on October 28, 2014 at 10:02 am Pijama Wearing Ninja

      X banged this girl before visiting another one of his girls. X didn’t have time to shower so the 2nd girl smelled and tasted the first one on X’s dick. She later confessed to X that this was her most intense sexual experience. lol

      Like


  50. Meg Ryan is a fascinating contrast to Virginia Madsen – both born in 1961 – and Meg still had it at 37, but then suddenly she crashed and burned by 40 [just like Diane Lane], whereas Virginia Madsen kicked it up into a higher gear. And I remember exactly when Meg Ryan jumped the shark – a soft core porno called “In the Cut” [when Virginia was making “Sideways”].

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  51. Reading some of the comments on various dating sites can be very amusing. Women between 35 ~ 55 constantly moaning about where all the decent men are. Well, after you have filtered all the men through each woman’s 400-point check-list, the answer = zero !

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    • I dunno…internet dating is really only good for playing Beta Bait but i DID see this in a chicks profile and I copy/pasted it:

      “I know real men who are struggling, good women who are side chicks, Fake men who got $,hoe* who got wifed & snitches being praised…Sadly It’s 2014 there’s no rules anymore”

      Like


    • on October 28, 2014 at 10:06 am Pijama Wearing Ninja

      Why would a decent man be interested in a woman over 30? It’s not women who filter the decent men out, it’s the decent men who do the filtering.

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      • @Pijama “It’s the decent men who do the filtering”. This is the essence of game: be the prize.

        But you can’t be the prize unless you have the “winner’s mindset”.

        It requires both effort in making yourself look and feel better. But also sheer willpower to get motivated to approach women in any way possible and start meeting up with women.

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  52. Some useful SCIENCE here – banging lots of chicks is good for you, whereas banging only one or two, or worse, banging lots of men, is bad for you.
    Thanks, Professor Parent! (No response yet from Profs Virgin and Homo.)
    http://www.independent.ie/life/health-wellbeing/sleeping-with-numerous-women-protects-men-from-prostate-cancer-study-reveals-30699383.html

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    • Damn! Even white men?

      Like


    • I suspect it’s sex with women that keeps the prostate healthy, and the reason why being promiscuous rather than monogamous appears good for men is because most married men start getting cut off as their wives age and their betatude grates, whereas men who don’t marry early to a same-age peer do better.

      Like


  53. O.T. (but relevant): For any dude who’s in a LTR or marriage and learned Game AFTER the plunge, I believe I’ve found a phrase that you have to work for and hear from your lady to know that your Game is working. Last night was 2nd day in a row where I just unexpectedly grabbed the old lady and initiated sex despite her yammering about this or that not being ideal (no, don’t push it if she says NO, as you and I clearly know the difference), or her having work to do or having to shower, or blah, blah, blah. I also bought some new clothes different than what I normally wear and wore my facial hair differently than I ever have. During the act of the 2nd night of sex, she says, “What’s gotten into you?” Bingo! That’s the clue you are on the right track. The only way to answer this question in my opinion is with a grin and raised eyebrow. DO NOT answer that question verbally, especially logically if you do.

    Anyway, shout outs to Heartiste, YaReally, HABD and Sentient for the time you take to help us dudes better our lives. Shit works.

    Like


  54. on October 28, 2014 at 9:24 am Pijama Wearing Ninja

    Re the article you posted about Mussolini on twitter. I find it hilarious SJWs think women actually mind sexism, racism, anti-Semitism and all those things.

    Like


  55. Do these men have stomachs of iron, or something? What power of will do they possess that I lack, in order to service these mighty warpigs? Most assuredly, I could never do what they do. I lack the strength, to my great and eternal shame.

    these men don’t have will power, or strength – it’s the exact opposite. they’ve given up.

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  56. and the chat3au h3artsie celebrity wall-smack for today, tuesday october 28, 2014 is….

    nicole eggert

    (google ‘nicole eggert then and now’ and ready your barf bags)

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  57. *New research*

    http://arstechnica.com/science/2014/09/2014-ig-nobel-awards-honor-nasal-tampons-made-of-bacon/

    “People who stay up late into the night are, on average, “more self-admiring, more manipulative, and more psychopathic” than people who habitually wake up early in the morning, according to Peter Jonason of the University of Western Sydney and his colleagues. In other words, the team showed that the Dark Triad—personality traits of narcissism, psychopathy, and Machiavellianism— likes it dark.”

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  58. Not mentioned yet, the wall’s greatest casualty: Brigitte Bardot.

    Though God bless her for being a nationalist when being one made you a pariah. Officially it still makes you one but today the average man and woman are moving in that direction.

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  59. Women over 27 are sexual nothings to me. Always will be. I might bang one for kicks if she made a gratuitous offer, but that’s about it. Maybe extend the age to 32 for South East Asian women.

    On the other hand, I find practically any girl between 15 and 23 highly arousing. Youth is everything.

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  60. @ itsme – I’ll call your Nicole Egger and raise you a Mischa Barton http://madamenoire.com/473546/stars-who-are-unrecognizable/11/

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  61. […] you were one of the thousands of readers who read this article from […]

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  62. There are some rare people who look better as they age and were total ugly ducklings (or else awkward) when younger. But in general, it’s true that women lose their beauty early, except for those of certain ethnic descent like Latin, Asian, black. Most white women though tend to age very fast and already have wrinkles by their mid and late twenties. 😦

    Like