Body Language

This is where the majority of guys stumble during the pickup.  The first impression is made within seconds, on the walk over to the girl, before one word is spoken.  The way a guy carries himself, moves his body, his hands and arms, positions his feet, stands, maintains eye contact, and interacts non-verbally with girls is half his game.  You can spit the words of Voltaire, but if your body is incongruent with what you’re saying, you will get blown out.

Some of the common beta body language mistakes I see guys making:

  • Walking over to the girl too quickly

When a guy sees a cute chick he gets excited.  His adrenaline pumps and his heart races as he thinks about how best to approach her.  This inner turmoil reveals itself in his physical composure.  He marches toward her too fast, propelled by his unspoken insecurity to get the job over with as soon as possible.  Fast walkers are unattractive.  Focus on your walking speed.  Stroll over like a pimp taking his time to admire the other girls in the room along the way.

  • Doing everything too fast

Related to the above, guys tend to gesticulate too rapidly when they get nervous, reflexively jerking around their hands, arms, and head.  Be aware of this and deliberately slow down all your movements.  Take an extra two seconds to reach for a beer.  Move around her in languid, measured rhythms.  When she is speaking, slowly cock your head to the side.  The key thing is to avoid any sudden movements.  That betrays anxiety.  It helps to imagine your life is a movie in slo-mo.

  • Being too stiff

The opposite of the above is when a guy stiffens up from nerves.  Don’t be a totem pole.  Move your arms around, swivel your body, make hand gestures while telling a story.  Watch Marlon Brando in The Godfather.  Just do it all slowly.

  • Closed body language

Guys who are confident that nothing in life can touch them have very open and smooth body language.  Nervous guys who are always afraid of fights, of being sucker punched, of conflict, will defensively scrunch up their body as if they were psychologically warding off blows.  Guys who fear nothing open their arms, expose their chests, and generally project the look of someone who never worries about being caught off-guard.  In that vein, avoid shoving your hands in your pockets, crossing your arms, standing with a narrow stance, looking around the room with darting eyes, slouching, or grabbing one forearm with your hand.

  • Holding drinks too high

Very common.  Don’t do it.  Look at old James Bond films.  Sean Connery holds his tumbler down by his waist, not up by his nipples.

  • Adjusting himself

Any primping should be done at home before going out.  Don’t tug at your cuffs, flatten your hair, pick at your fingernails, swipe at your nose, rub your eyes, brush off imaginary lint, or hoist your pants.  A relaxed alpha male does not primp in the field.

  • Leaning in (pecking)

Another common mistake.  Nearly every guy does this when starting out.  It’s called pecking because the motion of jerking your head and body forward to listen with rapt attention to what a girl is saying looks like a chicken pecking at seed.  She is not so important that you need to lean in to catch every precious word.  Lean back with your whole body and let her lean into you.  If she has something to say she’ll move in so you can hear it.  The act of bending to your will fires up her loins.  The one exception is in very noisy venues where you have to lean in if she is a soft talker.  It’s OK to do this as long as you lean in SLOWLY and lean back during pauses.

  • Weak eye contact

Hold it slightly longer than you feel comfortable doing.  Dominating another guy with steady eye contact can lead to a fight.  Dominating a girl with eye contact can lead to sex.  Remember, girls WANT to feel dominated.  It turns them on.  And making sure she breaks eye contact first is a great way to demonstrate dominance.

  • High pitched, incessant fast talking

A guy who is seeking approval will talk fast, hoping to finish his point before people become bored with what he’s saying.  His tone of voice will rise as sentences are completed.  A guy who is confident that everyone will listen intently to his brilliance will talk slowly in a low or neutral pitch and pause frequently.  Pausing is an extremely powerful method of subcommunicating dominance.  Think about a really effective professor or manager.  They begin speaking… PAUSE to build anticipation… make their point… PAUSE to let it sink in… conclude… PAUSE again… for effect.  The words don’t matter as much as how you say them.

  • Beta body positioning

After the approach, guys usually remain standing at the point they first entered the group to introduce themselves.  This spot is often on the outside of the social circle, back to the crowd, looking in at his target.  That is a weak position.  You want to move to the power position as quickly as possible.  The power position is center of the group, back to the wall or the bar, facing the room as if you were a king surveying your kingdom and your subjects were gathered round to entertain you.  A trick for maneuvering to the power position is to take a girl’s hand, lift it up so she reacts by doing a spin move, and spinning her away from the bar.  You then steal her spot or chair.  You can even call attention to your bold move:  “Oh man, I just stole your seat!”

  • Poor stance

If you are standing, keep your feet apart close to the width of your shoulders.  An alpha monopolizes space.  One foot should point forward and the other should point outward about 45 degrees.  Thrust your pelvis out slightly.

  • Poor sitting

If you are sitting, don’t cross your legs.  You’re not an old man.  Spread them out as if you were naked and you wanted the whole world to behold your breathtaking package.

  • Showing his palms too frequently

This non-verbal faux pas is a little arcane, but subconsciously girls notice it.  Turning your hands up is a sign of submission.  In the beginning, when you are building attraction by demonstrating your alphaness you should keep your palms down or turned inward.  Emphasize points by raising and lowering your hand, palm down.  If you look at video clips of presidential candidates on the stump you will see that the force of their speaking is intensified by strong hand movements.  Bill Clinton often addressed the crowd with his palm in, fingers curled into a fist, and thumb pointing out like a gun.  Later, during the comfort stage of the pickup after she is attracted, you can show your palm to display vulnerability.

  • Forgetting to touch the girl

This one is huge.  Probably the number one alpha trait is comfort with touching other people.  A guy totally gives away his betatude if he is uncomfortable touching girls.  Touching should start immediately, literally within two seconds of the approach.  During your introduction, lightly touch your target and the potential cockblock on the elbows simutaneously.  Start inoffensively, like on the forearms or shoulders, then gradually move to touching more erogenous zones, like the upper back, upper arm, or thigh.  Avoid accidentally touching the bra strap, the hair, or the face too soon, as these spots will fire off an instant recoil reaction in a girl who isn’t yet attracted to you.  When you talk in her ear take advantage of the moment to graze her cheek with yours.  The small of the lower back is a highly charged zone, so move your hand down her back as the pickup progresses.  Wrap your arms around her waist when you want to move her to another location in the bar.  Anytime you say something funny, anchor it with your touch.  When I have a good pickup my hands RARELY break contact with my target.

  • Not smiling or smiling at the wrong times

Yep, pretty basic.  Always smile on the approach.  Just don’t overdo it.  Drop the smile after your introduction.  Smiling and laughing works best in measured doses.  NEVER laugh at your own jokes.  Don’t laugh everytime she says something funny.  Your attitude should be “Oh she said something adorable again.  How cute!”, not “HA HA this girl is the funniest!  She is SO cool!  She is the best!”  Alternating your smiling with smirking, frowning, and a straight face is the winning formula.

  • Animated facial gesturing

In the early stages of the pickup when you are bringing higher energy than your target in order to get attraction it’s acceptable to accentuate your stories with facial gestures.  Later on, though, you want to avoid these histrionics.  Constantly raising your eyebrows, nodding your head, widening your eyes, smiling broadly, or twisting your mouth into funny shapes indicates an approval seeking mentality.  You are not an approval seeker, you are an approval giver.

  • Moving out of the way to accommodate others

Hold your ground.  When a guy needs to pass by, make him move around you.  You don’t want to be that guy who’s always stepping out of the way to avoid getting jostled by the crowd.  When a girl reaches for her drink, make her go over or around you.

  • Facing the girl directly

Don’t face your target directly until after she has qualified herself to you.  She does not deserve your full attention when you first meet her.  Keep your body angled slightly away from her.  Later, when she has earned your interest, turn to face her completely.  This is the signal to move into rapport.  Note:  If you are running direct game you will face her right away.

Go forth, and lubricate vaginas with the power of your presence.





Comments


  1. on November 20, 2007 at 7:34 pm instantExcitement

    My personal favorite move to watch is the 3 guys discussing the group of girls for a few minutes, then walking over, in a group to the women. They try to appear confident, and in sync, but that’s generally a sure sign that they don’t know what they are doing. I always run my stories/game plan with my wings before hand, that way if we see a cute girl or girls we can walk over quickly without appearing to stalk them.

    The most depressing thing is when you see a beta push the envelope and start an engaging conversation with a group of women out of his league and then start to succeed before not knowing what to do. This happens a lot to the guys who just practice the same 1-2 lines or 1 quick routine instead of adjusting to your surroundings. If you have built up enough rapport to isolate a chick, and are having a decent conversation with her, you’re going to eventually run out of canned goods.
    It is vital to notice what is happening around you, and use these moments to redirect a conversation to a subject that you are comfortable talking about. I like to comment about people’s clothes and what they mean, and start discussions about how clothing is very telling about people, which leads me into people watching and a fun guessing game.

    Liked by 1 person


  2. Another frequent move I see fools pull all the time is the: If I’m not the most popular guy in the room, I’ll at least make sure this girl thinks I am.

    Just because you hang out at said bar all the damn time, or you came in with your entire squad and their boys, doesn’t mean you have to stop and say what up every time they pass by or whatever. If you really were that popular, you wouldn’t waste your time trying to big up every other clown in the place.

    Like


  3. What happens when all these techniques become well known?
    If they become the norm, do they cease to be attractive?

    Like


  4. ” The act of bending to your will fires up her loins.”

    That’s ADORABLE….but a bit of a reach. The notion that my loins will catch fire because I have to lean in to be heard? Nope. Sorry. Ease in communication is more of a lubricant than is having to say, “I’m sorry? What was that?” Or having to shriek into the ear of the guy who is leaning back comfortably and clearly not invested in the conversation to begin with? Not hot.

    You needn’t be a drooling puppy, but you can actively participate without losing hand.

    Like


  5. Holding a drink at your waist seems so awkward. I’m going to have to try this out.

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  6. what about hugs? personally, i like it when a guy plays aloof and acts like he’s too cool for a warm embrace with a female he’s not fucking, but then wraps around like a champ when she catches him off guard saying goodbye. it’s a sign of life, you know.

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  7. boys are like aren’t old enough to go to bars 😦

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  8. Super useful, and a little embarassing when I check it against my own behavior. Thanks!

    Like


  9. “leaning in by a guy is always unattractive.” Not always. I once dated a very tall man, and one of his most charming traits was a habit of stooping down, just a little, to listen to me talk, as if he thought I had something very important to tell him.

    I generally agree with your advice in this post. It’s the kind of thing I used to tell my brothers (minus the explicitness) when advising them how to pursue a girl they were interested in. Not that they ever listened to me. But you fail to realise the value of paradox and contrast here: the otherwise arrogant s.o.b. who smiles sweetly and tells you about his grandmother, or shows a talent for playing with small children, or is carefully polite to service people in bars, parking lots, etc., has great power over women, esp. nicer ones who aren’t in it just for a fling. (I shouldn’t be giving this stuff away…) At least, things like that always worked on me – too well, because they made me overlook danger signals that I would have done well to note.

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  10. skeletor:
    If they become the norm, do they cease to be attractive?

    yes and no.
    in the short term (don’t fret, not within our lifetimes) girls will simply have a larger pool of attractive men to choose from. their attraction mechanisms won’t change just because more guys are learning and employing the techniques that get them wet.
    in the long term… there’s the rub. since sexual selection is rigged in such a way that female preference for high status males is built into the system, eventually an evolutionary arms race will ensue whereby women become more selective when deciding between men who all know how to run game. i can see a future where a woman’s antennae for male alpha-ness is very refined indeed.

    freckled – a guy can be invested in the conversation while leaning back and acting somewhat aloof. unless it’s very noisy, leaning in by a guy is always unattractive.

    gburdell – the trick is to hold the glass by the rim. you don’t have to keep it down really low, just lower than what most guys do. or drink from beer bottles.

    nikita – asexual opposite sex hugs are so 1992. if you sneak one in, don’t get cocky, kid! 😉

    Like


  11. Brilliant summary. I picked up a few good tips.

    Like


  12. The one about sitting with your legs spread is completely and exactically true.

    The palms up though is one in particular I disagree with. Well it depends on what the goal is, true but:

    There is something to be said for a guy who can manage to convey confident and humble at the same time. Just a suggestion for the guys who read this list and think “Oh shit I’m screwed,” or are wondering “If they become the norm, do they cease to be attractive?”

    Like


  13. Great post! I think the moving slowly is key. As I read through this I instantly thought of Christian on Nip/Tuck. Even holding the glass low is key and I bet not many even thought of that. The cooler the dude seems the more interested the chick will be.

    I have to agree with FreckledK, though. The leaning in can be hot. I guess it’s a fine line.

    Like


  14. on November 21, 2007 at 3:32 pm Days of Broken Arrows

    This post is of crucial importance. A strict set of rules must be adhered to at all times. But, then, don’t be too stiff. Take your time, but don’t be too slow. Move in fast, but don’t be lethargic.

    Also, as Lisa says, you must be both confident AND humble. Also, it’s important to be sensitive but tough. And be loquatious, but also be string and silent.

    I’d also like to suggest other things that are a must to avoid:

    1). Don’t do the Monty Python “How to Walk Funny” walk when you belly up to the bar.

    2). Don’t fake an epileptic seizure. Also try not to have a real one.

    3). Don’t make like Kramer in that Seinfeld episode and vomit on a woman.

    4). Don’t twitch uncontrollably and/or make like you have Tourette’s.

    5). Don’t have an asthma attack. A Big Mac attack is OK, though.

    5). Don’t stare blankly and expressionless into the void like your in an old 1980s music video.

    6). And finally, never get close to a woman’s face, make like you’re gonna kiss her, and then lick her in a dog-like way. This only worked for Snoopy and even then, Lucy ran scraming “eek! I’ve been kissed by a dog!”

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  15. DoBA will be here all week.

    Like


  16. This is a very Roosh-esque post.

    In terms of this stuff becoming well-known and therefore unattractive, I think the course of events will be: women will realize that there is an elaborate formula to picking them up and that guys know the formula, women will get all indignant that they are being played by guys, radical feminists will decry shows like that awful one on VH1 with that douchebag Mystery, guys everywhere will be confused. I can see it now.

    Like


  17. If you’re not a natural alpha, most of this advice does not come naturally so for those that want to manufacture it there is a caveat. One’s true nature will eventually emerge from the facade that has been so carefully fabricated. Every guy wants to be a big swinging dick and every American girl with a pair of Jimmy Choos feels like she deserves one but the world is not meant to have a surplus of such men. I suppose alpha traits are acquired through experience as well but I believe that both men and women should know their place.

    Like


  18. Seriously DOBA I’ve known guys pull it off; I have had actual repeated conversations with girls about a particular guy friend of mine which goes like this:

    (when the guy has gotten up to buy our drinks)

    her: hey, what’s up with Jon, he’s hot!

    me: yeah he is.

    her: But he’s so nice!…right?

    me: yeah he really is.

    her: I think he likes me…when we were sitting there his legs were stretched out so close to me his feet were under my chair and his legs bumped mine once.

    me: Maybe, but that’s just how he is. He’s comfortable in his skin.

    This guy has to beat them off him with a stick. I want to get a film crew to follow him around to document it.

    Like


  19. on November 21, 2007 at 4:43 pm Days of Broken Arrows

    “I think he likes me…when we were sitting there his legs were stretched out so close to me his feet were under my chair and his legs bumped mine once.”

    Sadly, the woman in question did not realize the man she was speaking to was an amputee and that was a false leg that had become dislodged and actually fallen under the table. Embarrassment ensued when she grabbed his leg and…well, you know the rest.

    Please consult Paul McCartney for further advice on this subject. I’d say more, but I don’t have a leg to stand on.

    Like


  20. on November 21, 2007 at 6:32 pm instantExcitement

    DF: Knowing your place is important in some aspects, with regards to your abilities. But most men in our society have been socialized to be beta males. They’re taught a certain way and don’t see the light for some time. Others, like myself, needed a few victories in life, in general not just with women, before we gained self-confidence and came into our own. While some people do have an innate ability to meet and approach the opposite sex, other people either learn or come into their own. While I don’t fancy myself as some sort of Casanova, I have found that most of the “material” in the “Pickup” community are things that you find out on your own if you actually start talking to women. I’m sure that this is equally true with women who were either shy, got used, or were unattractive at younger ages. I do however, agree that it is important to know what you are and who you are, and not try to over step your bounds. I know what the image I give off is, and I know that while I’m attractive and fun to be around, stories about me being in fights or in general as a tough/ bad boy type will sound insane, as I’m sure it would be difficult for the tough guy to be super relaxed/cool and willing to talk to anyone. It’s about who you are, and your self confidence. These little psychological tricks/tips can help you out, but for people with confidence and the right attitude (Roosh calls it Vibe) you just start to see and internalize these things. What’s far more interesting is looking to see them in other people’s game, and being able to actually analyze them.

    Like


  21. Some of the body language in this list shows confidence markers, some of it shows arrogance or entitlement markers – and those we can lose.

    The sense of entitlement is a red flag, it’s *the* way to spot players anymore. (Funny how it used to merely be the way to spot abusers.) There are plenty of girls who don’t realise that and you will succeed with those girls, but I’m saying you’re ahead of the curve if you as a man realise it before this kind of player self-help stuff does become “the norm.”

    Just trying to help.

    Like


  22. Yea Lisa, but it works far more than not. When you come off as an arrogant prick with a sensitive side – the chicks melt like buttah. The hot ones can’t help it.

    I should know – I’m one ugly dude but I’ve used allot of the good stuff from the pick up community to great triumph.

    Like


  23. Can’t we even think about the season; how many more seasons will go by while people prefer to destruct rather than construct?

    Like


  24. alias clio:
    the otherwise arrogant s.o.b. who smiles sweetly and tells you about his grandmother, or shows a talent for playing with small children, or is carefully polite to service people in bars, parking lots, etc., has great power over women,

    this is accounted for in the pickup literature. it’s called the Comfort phase of seduction. you isolate the girl and tell her an emotionally charged story that reveals a small vulnerability.

    btw, treating the help with decency is pretty much a given. no girl likes a guy who shits all over his lessers.

    irina:
    boys i like aren’t old enough to go to bars

    switch the gender, and i can relate.

    Well now you know why I think what I think.

    scaling the heights (plumbing the depths?) of your electric head cabbage.
    a lot of the things that attract a girl to an alpha cannot be explained by the girl because these traits/behaviors act on the subconscious level. exhibit A: body language is the frontline in the battle to break through the girl’s Vaginot Line. before, men had no way of knowing except through direct observation of alpha males how to properly carry themselves. now with the help of science and the seduction community betas have markedly improved tools for redefining themselves as attractive men.
    and it works.

    Like


  25. Yeah, the first two are important. I have definitely been doing things too quickly all my life, talking to them, asking them out etc. And you got it exactly right with this ‘propelled by his unspoken insecurity to get the job over with as soon as possible.” Story of my life, but because of cognitive dissonance – rationalizing bad decisions as good after you make them – I never truely reflected on it before. I requested advice on how to best approach a cashier recently. I did, after about three sentences I asked her out, of course she said no. Ridiculous. But I felt an ego boost simply from the act of asking, and rationalized my stupidity as brilliance afterwards. Oy.

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  26. The cashier was acting within the parameters of the law.

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  27. “The cashier was acting within the parameters of the law.”

    probably

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  28. just shut the fuck up

    Like


  29. You just may have hit on the most fundamental marker of the difference between what we call alpha and beta males. The marker is only a visual one, but the difference is neurophysiological. I think what you’re talking about here is just the tip of the iceberg, and a basic form of biological determinism is at work in all of this.
    I think alpha males are hardwired to move through the world in an extreme ‘masculine’ way, while betas’ wiring is a hybrid of masculine and feminine wiring. It”s a continuum with most men falling somewhere in-between.

    As a beta son of an alpha father, my dad constantly chided me for my mannerisms and body language as a kid. They weren’t effeminate by any stretch, but he constantly remarked that my movements weren’t fluid rnough. Instead, I seemed to mimic my mom’s more jerky, high-strung movements. It slowly dawmed on me that holding a drink high up against my chest, crossing my legs a lot, and leaning in are not the best ways to broadcast deep masculinity. After all, was I trying to be Truman Capote or Gore Vidal… Or Connery? Even Roger Moore would be good. Slow and suave is good. Quick,jerky movements are bad, unless responding to a threat in the environment.

    On the other hand, with my quick reflexes, high-strung nature and alertness, I’ve been told by dates that I’m an amazing driver… So I guess there’s some advantage in being wired this way.

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  30. I suppose alpha traits are acquired through experience as well but I believe that both men and women should know their place.
    I actually disagree. American culture is so brutally hierarchical there’s no reason not to take advantage of any reason to move up you can. Up or out, that’s the way we think around here. I don’t like it but you have to live where you are. I wish I were German and had a six-week vacation but I don’t book six weeks at a hotel, ’cause my boss’ll be yelling at me.

    I’ll try this. I have a hard time believing anything could make me attractive but I suppose anything is possible. At the very least it will confuse the opposite sex. Thank you.

    You can spit the words of Voltaire
    I thought very high IQ was a turnoff? 🙂

    Like


  31. I adore your description of women as targets. Very nice. Very evolved.

    Like


  32. Though I don’t have the vocabulary most of the other posers (I mean posters) here have (or the education) as an Alpha woman I thought you might enjoy my comments. I am in my early 50’s and am pursued by men from 21 to 70. The 20 somethings are a kick. Love dancing and flirting with them when I go out and I have no less than four who are at my beck and call and treat me like a queen though I never sleep with them. They seem sincere in wanting to have sex with me but I don’t tease them. Instead they do whatever I need done around the house or with my two businesses. They insist on not being paid but I insist on paying them with money, attention, loving appreciation, advise, and lots of laughter and fun.

    I’m somewhat proud to say that every single man I’ve been with sexually since I was 16 years old has wanted me back. Two of them contacted me within the last 5 years. They all tell me I am the best in multiple ways; my voice, smile, passion, intelligence, sense of humor, and of course sexually. I find deep joy in sexuality sometimes being moved to a few tears which I’m told is touching and rare to the men I’ve been with.

    I own a very successful business and am in the process of becoming financially independent and am a single parent as well. I have a great relationship with my daughters father.

    One of the biggest challenges I’ve had with men has been passive aggressiveness. When men on your site go on and on with the ur gaming advice I see nothing but passive aggressive “guys” and not men. Guys who until they grow up, are going to be breaking hearts wasting women’s time and their own in pursuit of getting “laid”. Sex without love is a complete waste of time in my opinion. There is no reason on earth why you can’t have love in any sexual encounter whether it be “casual” or not.

    All it takes is honesty and if you are sincerely honest and authentic in your intentions with a woman she will find you to be the most fascinating and mysterious man on the planet. If you tell her outright you are simply looking for a sexual partner you may bowl her over with your honesty and she may cream her panties at the thought of having sex with such an authentic man. Have you ever considered that approach? It may save you a lot of having to remember all the body language tips, manipulations, and empty feelings or guilt you might experience.

    My last two encounters with players left me devastated and I vowed to never allow myself to be degraded in that manner again as long as I lived. So I’ve learned to read body language quite well and I doubt even the most skilled concealer of intentions could fool me for long as rule #1 is never be in a hurry.

    Like


  33. Oh yes, the list for ultimate success.

    First of all even if you delude yourself and think that this actually works, you have to be an alpha male to begin with.

    Or as DF already put it:

    > If you’re not a natural alpha, most of this advice does not come naturally so for those that want to manufacture it there is a caveat.

    And then a couple of specific points.

    > His tone of voice will rise as sentences are completed.

    So… …no luck for any French speakers…

    > A guy who is confident that everyone will listen intently to his brilliance will talk slowly in a low or neutral pitch and pause frequently.

    How come I don’t see a disproportionate amount of us Finns succeeding (even considering that your explanation is quite vague to begin with)?

    > Think about a really effective professor or manager.

    So, class room lecturing works in a night club? This is quite surprising.

    > The words don’t matter as much as how you say them.

    Ever tried speaking nonsense words the whole evening? Or communicating with people without a common language?

    On a different note 😉

    > And finally, never get close to a woman’s face, make like you’re gonna kiss her, and then lick her in a dog-like way. This only worked for Snoopy and even then, Lucy ran scraming “eek! I’ve been kissed by a dog!”

    This is something I would like to do. Why not? Come on, relax. It will be fun. You know you like it.

    Like