How Not To Sound Defensive

Reader Mr. Meaner passes along a text convo with a girl that stands as an excellent example of solid reframing and grace under pressure,

Here’s a text convo I had with a Tinder girl:

Her: Hey, how’s it going?

Me: wow.

Her: Wow?

Me: you look like a nice one

Her: What is that supposed to mean?

Me: a nice fish… a nice GIRL! what did you think it meant.

Her: I didn’t like the way it came across. Word of advice, be more respectful and you may get further.

Me: slow down, i need to be wined and dined first.

Her: Haha oh I see, you’re a traditional lass then?

Her: Drinks?

Most beta males would’ve shrunk in shame and apologetics when the girl demanded respect. Mr. Meaner reframed into the classic “I am the one being chased” theme. This promptly tipped her off that she was dealing with a man who “gets it”, a devil-may-care alpha male, and her attitude dissipated as her poon petals flowered.


  1. Sinfully gamey


    • Yep.

      With that reply from her, it’s worth one humoristic reply to see if she’ll come around, then skip it. Way back when I used to do online dating I would send out a message that sounded like a wanted ad for co-workers for a bank heist, with the job leading to celebration together afterward. A whole lot of girls replied to that in good humor, but some criticized it as if it had been serious. When that happens you keep the frame in your reply. If they come around, then good. If not, then it’s the best way to piss them off.

      “I didn’t like the way it came across. Word of advice, be more respectful and you may get further.” … That was a weird accusation. And pretending to give advice with a “word of advice” is just another way to say F U.

      “didn’t like the way it came across” reminds me of doing group projects at the university, where some girls would say “I feel like that isn’t right” when they disagreed with something. Placing the focus on the listener’s feelings makes sure she doesn’t have to prove that a statement is wrong. She isn’t saying it’s wrong – she is saying how she reacts to it, which can’t be disproven.

      It’s like the rule against “statements that are offensive against minorities” in schools – the rule is that if a statement is perceived as offensive then you must apologize or step down, even if it actually wasn’t racist/sexist. Like the teacher forced to apologize and undergo “sensitivity training” for using the word niggardly. (There’s a whole Wikipedia page devoted to “Controversies about the word niggardly”.)


    • In part, but is not the sinful really or even the gamey.

      Women get turned out by the men who can give them the best sons, and most women’s instinct is that the best sons are those who are players who want and can get laid with a lot of other women’s daughters without getting attached to any of them. Because those sons are those who give their mother the most grandchildren at the lowest cost (most efficient at spreading their mother’s genes).

      And women are very well aware that certain attitudes are inheritable, and the best way to have sons who are emotionally unavailable players who screw around a lot is to choose men like that for sex, and their instinct makes them moist for the same men anyhow.

      So in part sinful and gamey, but the best short summary is from this blog, it is to be an uncaring jerk (where ‘jerk’ does not mean obnoxious but selfish), just like the sons that most women want to have.


    • on November 29, 2014 at 6:47 pm Randy the Random



      • on November 29, 2014 at 8:16 pm Hammer of Love

        Also notice how they’re putting the simians in front line combat positions in recent World War 2 movies. I cant wait till we get negro medieval knights. Maybe a black Napoleon . We cant even retain truth in history anymore. Diversity is such a wonderful strength.


      • ‘For how could you establish even the most obvious fact when there existed no record outside your own memory?

        He tried to remember in what year he had first heard mention of Big Brother. He thought it must have been at some time in the sixties, but it was impossible to be certain. In the Party histories, of course, Big Brother figured as the leader and guardian of the Revolution since its very earliest days.

        His exploits had been gradually pushed backwards in time until already they extended into the fabulous world of the forties and the thirties, when the capitalists in their strange cylindrical hats still rode through the streets of London in great gleaming motor-cars or horse carriages with glass sides.

        There was no knowing how much of this legend was true and how much invented. Winston could not even remember at what date the Party itself had come into existence’

        Soon: Was there ever white male soldiers? No one could remember.


      • on November 30, 2014 at 6:11 pm Diversity Is Good

        Well, duh, it’s Disney so it’s gonna be SJW propaganda all the way.

        Now, WTF is that supposed to be carried around in the dark, in the trees, a light saber with ear hair trimmers?


  2. you become repetitive Sir


  3. Thats nice, but I think it would never have happened this way, unless the girl completly fell for the pics.


    • aside from not being actively unattractive looks are a lot less important than you think. not to be a broken record but present the best self you can make of yourself and then quit making excuses.

      believing her bad attitude is due to your appearance is a prescription for sounding defensive.


    • @ Jako

      burke is right. some girls have a bad attitude no matter who you are or what you look like. that’s just how they are. the girl in this post probably thought she was being clever and charming. leading off with an attitude like that has a lot more to do with the girl’s personality than with the guy she is interacting with.


      • “an attitude like that has a lot more to do with the girl’s personality than with the guy she is interacting with.”

        great point. it’s important not to take a girl’s bad attitude personally. some of them are just bitchy and it has nothing to do with you. when you start thinking it’s about you, you start to feel guilty and get defensive and usually start thinking of ways to fix it and make her happy. that’s the wrong way to go.

        i think it’s a good rule of thumb to always behave as though a girl’s crappy attitude it isn’t about you because it isn’t. don’t be an ass if you’ve done something really wrong of course but when she’s acting like a bitch, that’s on her. no matter what the circumstance, she doesn’t have to react in a bitchy snarky way. if she’s does that, it’s about her…not you.


      • @Blart/K I tried an experiment last night. I was out with a smoking hot girl friend of mine. We hang out. I was at my weekly dance party. I asked another girl to dance and she refused giving me attitude. I laughed, said ok. Grabbed my smoking hot friend who I gamed on the dance floor, was laughing at everything i said and i looked around—the entire room was staring at us. So…if you can imagine EVERY interaction like this…find a smoking hot girl, friend, anyone to replace the cunt who just acted bitchy to you, you can start to train you brain not to take stupid shit personally.


      • In life generally, remember that most of what goes on isn’t about you. Creeps gonna creep, narcissists gonna narciss, bitches gonna bitch. It took me a while to learn this.


    • im pretty sure this is what had to have happened; although i think it might actually be a guy pretending to be a girl on tinder since ‘she’ called him a ‘lass’ and was the first to initiate the conversation.

      Otherwise if real was 100% looks, the game was dogshit.


    • That ‘convo’ is fake as fuck. That just does not happen in real life, not even for a celebrity male. The girl will still try and make him work for it.


      • Its tinder, dumbass.


      • Really… you seem to have no idea how needy and desperate women are for a man out of their league, a man who is popular with women hotter than herself. As the old saying goes they “throw themselves at him”.

        But only after they are sure that he is indeed an emotionally unavailable player who does get laid with other women hotter than themselves.


  4. I’d be curious to learn what this chick is really like in the flesh, meaning how she behaves in person [morally and spiritually – I don’t mean whether or not she fucks like a porn actress]. There is a core of kids coming of age right now [born, or maybe toddlers, circa the Monica Lewinsky affair] who are beyond worthless. Even the 20-somethings [born, say, at the end of the Reagan Administration] are shocked at how lazy and unmotivated and uninspired and insipid this new generation is proving to be.


  5. Getting defensive with anyone makes you look like a bitch. I found that when I got defensive with managers, they treat me worse and argue with me, but when I act uncaring or mock them, they leave me alone.

    Never apologize. Never get defensive.
    Unless you really hurt someone and need to repair that relationship, or its required by the social situation. Or are Canadian.


    • People generally don’t like whiny insecure pushovers. Not getting defensive about things betrays a kind of self confidence.


  6. on November 28, 2014 at 3:08 pm themanofmystery2

    That seems a little too fast of a 180. Methinks some text was left out by the commenter.


    • C’mon guys… Did you not see that SHE initiated the text to begin with? A little passing a shit test goes a long way. Think about every interaction – why is she sending this text – on friggin tinder of all things…


      • yep

        like i said in my earlier comment, she probably thought she was being clever and charming. girls mistaking snark and bitchiness for humor is pretty common these days. she was also trying to come off as the kind of strong independent women that she thinks men want.

        that’s all idiotic of course but it’s for sure an indicator that she was interested. she wouldn’t have initiated the text if she wasn’t. if a girl isn’t interested she ignores you. we all know that.


      • “girls mistaking snark and bitchiness for humor is pretty common these days. she was also trying to come off as the kind of strong independent women that she thinks men want.”

        Yup and yup. Well said.


      • From what’s posted here, Tinder sounds like shit test central. Strikes me as a kind of forward (anti-slut) defense since the medium itself connotes sluttiness.


      • Rumor has it that calling it “Tingles” was frowned upon by the female focus groups


      • “the medium itself connotes sluttiness.”



    • Im with you man, way too easy to cut and paste to make it seem how badass your text convo was.

      That is a hard shutdown, to think some random guy she doesnt know, suddenly reverses that hard? No way.


    • on November 29, 2014 at 8:08 am G.B.F.M. Superfan

      This. I’m not denying the general principle, just the particular evidence in this case. Something is off. In fact, I’ve said the very same line and the women only intensify their tuff grrrl act.


  7. Bust her chops whenever possible. Girls love to play.


  8. on November 28, 2014 at 3:56 pm GreatBooks4Women

    Like omg, this is so Yellenified! If you want to know how to treat a lady, read the classics (duh): 50 Shades of Grey (ChristianGreySoHottt!!!); GoneGirl; and of course … Little House on the Prarie. Read up boys, and you will enjoy lotza youknowwhat (LOL).


  9. Yeah I agree. This doesn’t generally happen off such a basic attempt to reframe.


  10. “Me: slow down, i need to be wined and dined first.”

    Sounds way too canned. I’d prefer “Well, poor me” in an amused voice.


  11. Have all the girls been banned or chased off? I am glad, all they did was derail the conversation and white knights congregated to them painfully often.


  12. I can pretty much guarantee this girl is not got at all.


  13. BULLSHIT…. “Lass”? Hmmmm….


  14. Sounding defensive is a go-to reaction that takes clear conscious effort to block.

    I’ve given examples here of girls I’m gaming:

    Her: Bad boys, not my style

    Me: Mom warned me about girls like you

    Her: shoulda listened

    Me: Don’t make me send you to the naughty corner

    is one I had recently but the pattern works. I avoided the bait.

    The other I had was in response to a FB post of a girl I banged, she posted.

    Her: I had gin tonight, gheyest drink ever

    Me: ghey

    Her: Try to be less predictable in your responses dear

    Me: nah…


    The problem with being defensive is that it puts the girl in the dominant position, she’s now leading the interaction. If you can neutralize or reframe it, then you’re still leading.

    This is a typical shit-test. In many ways the exact words you use aren’t as important as the tone you and attitude you take. I couldn’t think of anything other than “nah…” but it was good enough.


    • Ah, yes…tone. Very important. Had to learn the hard way about that one, but, twas a great lesson nonetheless.


      • @Mendoza Tonality….and intent. I ran into a girl I gamed and made out with a few months back. She immediately told me she’d bought a ticket to my Christmas party.

        “We’ll need to find a dark corner somewhere…” I said.

        She looked up at me beaming. There was no “ewwwwwwww” or “come on…”

        Being clear that you see them as sexual is something lost on many guys in game.

        It’s one thing to banter…it’s entirely another to make clear there’s more to it.

        It can be as subtle as tugging at a girl’s hair, or staring into her eyes silently after she says something stupid…or it can be saying something like it did…and being prepared for whatever reaction she gives with amused mastery.

        If she had said “Nooooooooo” I would have just laughed not been defensive.


      • “Being clear that you see them as sexual is something lost on many guys in game.”

        Good stuff!

        Yup. I realized this was a shortcoming of mine and in fact was thinking about it just yesterday that I gotta make my intent known. Too many years of being sheepish, but now it’s time to be the wolf on the hunt!


      • @Mendoza I like to share my own experiences to these posts in case dudes can pick out from them what might apply.

        I recently split with the 23 year old who I was banging amid others for 4 months. One day she just blew me off. After a text calling her out on this shitty behavior and her acting out…I dropped it.

        She came out weekly to the club I hang out at on weekends. I ignored. This past Saturday she suddenly started eye coding me….I walked by her and she blew me a kiss which I ignored.

        The strength required to be a dick is incredible because we as guys are programmed to “respond” and “be nice”…

        Chicks can be bitches but guys can’t be dicks because it goes against social norms.

        What has helped in my resilience is banging 11 chicks, having others around–even as pivots and just keeping focused.

        Being “Defensive” is so easy. Holding your frame seems counter-intuitive. We feel we NEED to make ourselves heard. But game and relationships are counter-intuitive.

        This is the best Oneitis portrayal…Say Anything’s boombox scene.


    • @ Walawala: These comments you’ve posted right here (below, etc.) are helpful (very clear & direct info, good points made). This kind of info is not only useful; it also boosts my optimism re my own prospects.
      Thanks, and congrats on having such a good year.


      • @lazy guy Thanks. I’ve written before. When you up your game: both inner and outer…the rewards are high but so are the risks, lots of ups and downs. I banged so many hot, younger girls. The downside, they’ve all kind of vanished for one reason or another. The upside…there’s always new ones. The downside, takes time. The upside, with tighter game I stop wasting time.

        The most interesting insight came this weekend. A girl I gamed and thought was up for banging me revealed the true nature of women in a very unique way.

        Girl comes to town: “long story”—I can sense trouble with bf/fiancé. Why is she coming here? Not to see just me. So we make plans to meet up Friday. She’s bringing her “Friend” who turns out to be a nice, but greater beta guy: good looking, no real game….”nice”. I sense something between them, up the negs.

        But meantime my game wasn’t great. I was hesitating, something was not quite “right” and I didn’t know what it was. I liked her, she likes me….she was posting tons of photos which was great as “Social proof” for other girls I’m gaming.

        Well….turns out I run into them by accident on Sunday in the subway–holding hands. I say “Hey!” and she is shocked and says “Hey!” and I keep walking.

        Here’s the thing…I don’t really care. What I do care about is that I can get some great social proof. She’s using me as a ‘beard’ to cover up coming over to bang some dude. I’m using her as “social-proof” to create jealousy plotlines for girls I’m gaming in my city. It’s like the perfect set up for what I want to achieve—all with the “wink wink nudge nudge” of game—she gets what I need because I haven’t escalated. I get she’s with the dude and is covering it up for her friends back home.

        Sometimes you have to look more broadly at what you want to achieve—sometimes the drama and crap of banging a hot chick aren’t worth it but they still can be very useful in your overall game.



      • @ walawala: Yup, I get it, sure.
        For me the balance of price versus reward is a frequent appraisal.
        It’s funny how much women often overestimate how much I would value getting what they can offer me, and they underestimate how high I regard the price of banging her … like someone offering to sell you a good car at price that’s way too high, and you see they won’t negotiate a lower price, and they can’t understand why you reject the option to buy it.
        It can be funny, from enough distance, but it’s a barrier to banging.

        Maybe I’m playing it safe too much; avoiding possibly ugly exchanges;
        maybe presuming too much what are her possibilities and limitations with me;
        or maybe I’m not navigating her need for self-deception (she needs to deny she is accepting my terms) with enough finesse.
        Anyway, bottom line, I know I need to be fishing in different waters
        (which is another form of paying a price to get the bang). Ugh.


      • @lazy guy “”Maybe I’m playing it safe too much; avoiding possibly ugly exchanges;””

        I used to think this way. What helped was getting a few canned responses and routines that I could practice and plow through until that awkward feeling when I got gina tingles…started to become more natural and then it got easier.

        I should share another story from this weekend. I’d written about the 23 year old I was banging who suddenly went cold because we were getting “too close”… There could be several reasons for that: another dude or her emotional issues or whatever… She shows up at the club…starts giving me IOI’s. I give her only one acknowledgement—a kind of head shake and raised eye brow. She blows me a kiss. I ignore.

        Then radio silence. Hot girls are used to dudes chasing them with the barest of effort on the girl’s part. Blowing a kiss? It’s gotta be better than that. In the past I’ve caved in too early in the name of smoothing over whatever problems there were…never worked.

        Get a few things you can work with…build from there.


  15. Any advice for dudes who flamed out spectacularly after a long “hiatus” from night game?

    Then again, I may have overestimated my game to begin with. Too much booze, low height, weak openers, lack of direction. Any hints to start with?


    • on November 28, 2014 at 10:37 pm Bobby Cuddlefuck

      Have fun. Be fun. Be confident. Be daring. Escalate quickly. Don’t give a fuck.


      • I always hated that kind of “advice”. “Be fun”. What does that even mean? Easy to say, much harder to actually do.


      • “Be fun”

        In a nutshell. Get your shit together. If you’re not stressed, and not worried about things you’ll enjoy life more and naturally ogres will enjoy being around you. If you have issues, they will subconsciously wear you down whether you realize it or not.


      • Others*


    • Might sound a cliche but there’s no substitute for just getting back on the horse after you’ve been thrown. BC’s recommendation to don’t give a fuck is great advice. There are many stories from actors and actresses that had given up on the careers finally being cast when they went to auditions with no expectations and ‘didn’t give a shit’. When you’re desperate, people can sense this; when you are at wit’s end – you are genuine.

      I recall friends who dragged me out to venues unwillingly and I went without any expectations – worse – with negative – strange how lightning strikes when you aren’t invested in any outcome. Independent of outcome is indeed liberating – adopt that attitude.


    • @ho Yes, first, drop the booze, it’s sloppy and not cool. Secondly pay closer attention to your appearance: whatever you can afford but you should get clothes that fit and are tailored. Since I bought a new wardrobe and tidied up, I’ve raised my Sexual Market Value and my age is not an issue if I dress cool.

      Get in shape.

      Your issue sounds more like an “inner game” issue than external one. Take this slow. I’d always suggest that rather than hanging out in bars, take interest classes: yoga, rock climbing, hiking, dancing—tons of chicks and there’s less of a creep factor if you can use plausible deniability to start conversations, neg, kino etc. Think of it—rock climbing is an easy one, you have to spot when a girl is up on the ropes and harnesses—tons of opps for negs, teasing, kino.

      I’ve banged like 5 girls in my social circle—all hot. And banging one only raises your value to the others if you don’t come off as a creep and maintain discretion. They like “finding out” rather than seeing you flaunt other chicks. More of a turn on when they “discover” who you were with.

      Buy a few books—a recommend KRauser’s Daygame Mastery–it’s got everything you’re asking in one easy package.

      Just get out and start talking, don’t intellectualize game. Get a goal. Mine was bang 10 chicks this year to get over my crazy ex gf. I banged 11—most (not all) were smoking hot. A few dogs in there but they were for practice mostly. It’s like a shot of booze to take the edge off..>Banging a 6 is great target practice. If you can bang one of them, you can work up from there. All mine are now young, hot, professional, slim and have a personality.


      • Inner game sounds right.

        Also, getting in shape would help a lot.


      • @ho you don’t win the World Series in one game, you have to plow through the various games until you finally make it into the big leagues. I wrote here that my strategy was to bang a hot 23 year old. It took 9 months to achieve this goal. Had to get my game tight, more confidence. I’m nearly 50…


    • on November 30, 2014 at 6:22 pm Diveristy Is Good

      Remember the girl tree is full. Forget the scarcity “oh, noes! I lost another one” crap. Learn from every interaction.

      Game every woman you meet. Flirt with the middle aged checker when you buy groceries. Game the heavily tatted barrista when you get a coffee. It doesn’t have to be heavy, you go to a deli and the sorta cute girl behind the counter hands you a number for your table, put on a fake pout and ask her “What if I don’t like this number, will you come to my table and bring a different one?” see if she lights up a little bit. Run that patter all the time until it comes out naturally. Practice it all the time, make yourself stand out in their grey day.

      Then amp it up. Amp it up to 11, dude.


    • on November 30, 2014 at 6:35 pm G.B.F.M. Superfan

      Game, in the form of Heartiste’s earlier posts gave me measurable increases in sexual fitness. But…it wasn’t until I got my hormonal systems optimized, that I really started making my ancestors proud.

      Game allows you to do more with less energy, but more energy is always better. When your metabolism is a raging furnace and your liver is bulging with stored glycogen, your mitochondrial squatters will be happy. Your stress tolerance will dramatically increase and your androgens will skyrocket. It’s all about energy, baby. Tyrants of old lost their grip as their mitochondria faltered. You can smell it on a man.

      The more energy you have, the more risks your subconscious will let you take, and the more buxom beauties you bed. We are victims of our own internal governors, more often than not. Your body won’t let you breed, unless it knows it has the energy to do so.

      Pay the piper his due, or no pussy for you!


  16. Paging YaReally. . .

    My situ is such that I really only have time to practice for about 60 minutes on weeknights, walking home from my office. Sometimes I can find time to do daygame during the weekend. It’s rare, though.

    I’ve been going through your archives, soaking up as much as I can, and I’m running into some walls.

    I have been able to use Roosh’s “pet shop” opener (customized for the city I’m in) and my own “confused foreign guy” opener. The first few weeks I just tried to get girls to stop walking past me, but now they will stop, take out their headphones, and are often quite helpful. One girl walked me two blocks to a clothing store to pick out a shirt for my “friend”.

    I’ve had some number closes and first dates so I know I’m generally moving in the right direction. I mention this so that you know I’m actively going out as much as I can and talking to people, not just sitting at the keyboard reading about game.

    The reason I’m asking for your help is because I keep reading your comments, thinking, “yes! I want to do that!” But I have no idea what to practice, where to start, how to progress, etc. Right now, I’m just flailing around doing whatever seems to be appropriated from what I can figure out from Mystery, random RSD videos, and Roosh’s stuff (and, of course, what I read here). I need to be more systematic with my limited lab time and don’t know where to begin.

    I guess what I’m asking for is something akin to a bodyweight lifting progression. Like, instead of “do negative pull ups until you’re strong enough to do regular pull ups, then do weighted wide-grip pull-ups when regular pull-ups get too easy.” Is there anything you know of like that? Something that says, in essence, “there is no substitute for experience… here are the experiences you need to have to improve… don’t waste your time on this other stuff… do these exercises… observe the results… etc.”

    The closest thing I’ve found is your “how to get good at texting” advice (e.g., fake profile, message errybody, go sexual early, etc.) Can you point me somewhere that has that kind of information, but for the fundamentals?


    • what you need in your life is to take more honest risk and to invest more in yourself. This will give you more “inner strength” (confidence) in interaction with people especially woman. With inner strength you do and say what you really want. A conversation like the above example come out of your mouth automatically. With your day pickups you’re already on the right track. What you’re missing is a precise plan. -“Models attract woman through honesty” by Mark Manson could be a start. This book is a must if you want to stop acting, learning things by heart and become a natural. Good luck


    • still sound like yatyler. need more practice with changing up rhythm, phrasing, verbiage, formatting. at least you left out the lols. that shows improvement.

      “Can you point me somewhere that has that kind of information, but for the fundamentals?”

      cue rsd pimp. we know they’re hurting right now.


    • @nunyajp

      Here you go man. I’m giving back as it’s only right since YaReally has helped me out so much. All of these were found on the and are from YR himself.

      Legit pickup challenge, this is the step-by-step “bodybuilding routine”
      Masculine vs. Feminine game
      Recommended reading material
      30 Day Challenges
      Hope this helps and best of luck. Search through YaReallyArchive for anything else.



      • @immoralgables – thanks for that. I hadn’t seen that “bodybuilding routine” post before – it was just before the time I started reading CH.

        It’s really useful and I’m going to apply when I switch my focus back to night game (from the current focus on online game).


      • PS – just to add that it seems daunting at first – even if you have some game – to try and practice and learn so many different skills, but it will happen over time.

        Like when I saw YaReally’s tips on sexualizing/sexualizing online, I was like “How will I ever manage this?” But 1000-2000 online openers later, I’m way better at online game, particularly the last 500 or so. I recently had a girl masturbate for me and send me nude pics before meeting me just because I managed to turn her on through Whatsapp. I’ve been consistently getting into sexual convos over text and so on – and I’m improving fast.

        But a lot of that is just the last few hundred numbers – I had to spend the majority of time in the early months just getting the basics right. I’m sure it will be a similar process with this – difficult early on, but when you hit a certain point, things will click and results will start to really take off.


      • Yes, that is exactly what I was looking for! Thank you!

        I had been plowing through the YaReallyArchive, but still hadn’t found the “bodybuilding” post.

        I really appreciate the help!


  17. @nunyajp – I’m not YaReally but I’ve also gone through his writing in detail and he’s been helping me here for a few months now.

    I know exactly the section you mean where he talks about getting sexual online. I’ve been following that (with some tweaks) for a while now with really good results – although I use my own real picture and just change my location to somewhere far away. Look up the sexual questions game on PUAZone’s best posts – adding that in to the mix really helped my texting.

    I don’t have a list of waypoitns for you but I can say that if you have limited time (like you I have logistical issues and lots of travelling which limits my day-to-day gaming) then learning stuff online can really help you speed up the process for applying it in person.


    • Thank you! I saw the texting post and my first thought was, “whoa I am so not ready for that.” But based on your comments, I’m going to give it a go and work that along with the “bodybuilding” post instructions. I will look up the POAZone post, too.

      Thank you for the help. I really appreciate it!


  18. She was just throwing up the bitch shield cuz her vag got hot too fast for her fancy panties when he flashed her his jerkboy dick-sure stance…


  19. Need advice from the masters lurking about on how to have handled an OKCupid chat better.

    I’m in my 40s, and saw a profile on OKCupid for a woman, 31, who prefers older men.

    Me: Hah! You clearly have superior taste in men.

    Well, send me your phone number, so we can get this torrid affair started.

    Her: having such superior taste in men, i think it would be rather contra productive to hand out my number so easily. aint it so?

    Me: Feisty little thing aren’t you?

    Number now.

    Her:i’m not the one to take orders. but you caught me in a weak moment. XXX-XXX-XXXX. available for 3 more minutes. then pumpkin.

    At this point, I decided to wait a day. Mistake? Dunno.

    Next day:

    Her: that did not go so well

    Me: mmm-hmm. I’ll call you tonight

    Her: yeah, don’t bother.

    Me: 😉 Thank you!

    Well, obviously that didn’t work. Can the experts here help me understand what I should have done? Namely, should I have called her the same night she gave me her number? What response would have been better the next day when she said “that did not go so well”? What should I have responded when she said “yeah don’t bother”? And should I have called anyway?


    • when you are a hammer everything looks like a nail… Do you want to win an Alpha Posture War or get the lay?

      You had her hooked. She pinged you. Instead of rubbing her nose in your Alpha Posture “mmm-hmm” (you are saying yeah look at me I’m the man I made you wait) and then saying you will call her (combination of beta and bad player vibe) you could have been playful and seductive and gone for a meet…

      Her: that did not go so well

      Me: I hate pumpkin too, next time try not to eat the whole thing.

      Me: Picture of large pumpkin

      Her: whatever she says doesn’t matter

      Me: Crazy night last night, I’m free later. Meet me at X for a drink at Y.

      Me: No pumpkin…


  20. If you always operate from the basis that YOU are the prize and THEY must supplicate, then the issue of defensiveness literally never arises. The rest is frills and art – the art of reading people, your verbal tone and shaking up the right cocktail of humour, dread, high value and dominance.


  21. on November 29, 2014 at 5:04 pm themanofmystery2

    One of my favorite ways to flip the script is to “accidentally” mess the girl’s name up while apparently leaving to do something more interesting elsewhere in the bar. Warning: only works after some iota of base level attraction has been established. The more dowdy and elderly the name, the better. Even more points if the name is a double entendre for a famous less-than-beautiful actress or her character. Example:

    Emily: wow, that was a little forward don’t you think?
    Me, to Emily: I never think (Said with a smirk). Listen, Ethel, I’m gonna check out what those broads in the corner are doing to the poor jukebox. You can buy me one if I get back this way.

    Then promptly get up and go outside for a smoke, then come back in and start having some insanely outcome independent conversation with another attractive woman in the bar. Her hamster will go berserk for a few reasons:

    1. You lied
    2. It appeared that you found an excuse to end the conversation with her
    3. You got her name wrong, and replaced it with a borderline-offensive old lady name

    Any time you want to re engage….you have hand.


    • now we’re fucking talking….

      this is game.


    • Or coming up with nick names for them. A girl who i’m “Friends” with because she has a fiancé came visiting. We made plans for dinner and she brought out a male friend of hers. I had to suss out the dude and when I figured he was an orbiter I gamed her as per usual—mostly bringing up embarrassing or funny things about her to the guy…then I developed a nick name for her that added a “y” to her last name. Something like if her last name is Bond, call her “Bondy”. Her eyes popped out of her head, the dude looked at me and she said “Where did THAT name come from?”

      I won’t bang her, but I will use her for social proof. She is all about posting photos of us doing shit together. Imagine how that looks.

      Someone had written can men and women be “friends”? No…but if I’m not banging them and they’re not giving something back, then if they’re hot and I get social proof from them when they laugh at everything I say…then it’s ok.

      I now group chicks into 5 categories: 1) plates I bang 2) plates I’ve banged, stopped banging and now hang with (my orbiters) 3) friends who do shit for me. (could be an ex gf or just an ugo who’s “nice”—an orbiter. 4) The geishas: Social proof girls. These are activity partners who must be HOT but maybe I’m friendzoned or no chance of a bang…but I use for practice in game and social proof. If they pose for pictures or do shit with me and tell people about it…it’s ok. There has to be some mutual benefit. 5) the rest of the world’s female population–girls who I haven’t gamed or I’ve forgotten about or just exist in my world.

      Having this system prevents me from wasting time on girls I have zero benefit from.

      This way I can buy shit and gifts for girls because there’s no expectation, they all have a purpose. In most cases these girls are quite generous with their time, their money, their company so feeding the beast once in a while doesn’t lower my value.

      Once in a while I slip up…I find myself “chasing”. I stop, take stock and check if they fit into any one of the first 4 categories. If not…it takes HUGE willpower to drop them until they serve some purpose in my life.

      This system which I didn’t set out to develop but realized evolved naturally this year has helped me chill out around hot chicks.


      • once you get more comfortable in your skin then then you chasing will become your game. 😉

        chasing is only bad for betas, for Alpha its fun and profitable 🙂


  22. A propos of nothing, I note a few tradcons in here (and elsewhere in the manosphere, Return of Kings especially) like to tout Christianity as a keystone of their malehood. Others consider religion in general, and Christianity’s ‘turn the other cheek’ rhetoric, to be profoundly beta.
    I’m more of the second school of thought, but the main reason for disregarding Christianity when it comes to teachings on masculinity is because those charged with propagating the belief are all a bunch of homos:


  23. That was well played. But, she sounds like a cunt.


  24. I normally don’t bother with girls who have boyfriends but I recently decided to experiment. After three months of spitting subtle game at this girl, she texted me on thanksgiving day explicitly stating that she wants to fuck (blaming her confession on the wine she’d been drinking). I won’t be seeing her until Tuesday but for the past few days she’s been texting me. I’ve been keeping the conversations sexual and she’s been responding well. My question is should I continue doing this and keep her at that level or should I retract before she loses interest?


    • sort out logistics…ping text her day before to confirm some detail (bring wine, bring dessert whatever) then leave it. You’re starting to panic. This could lead to giving off a needy vibe at some point. Fix the time and place, send a ping confirmation text. That’s it.


  25. This actually reminds me about my mother trying to brainwash my natural male urges and telling me, “what women want”

    … like a smart lad, I watched my asshole stepdad and took notes.


  26. “Penn Team’s Game Theory Analysis Shows How Evolution Favors Cooperation’s Collapse” AKA “Sit back and enjoy the civilization’s collapse”


  27. “Diveristy Is Good” wrote: “Game every woman you meet.”

    Yes. Absolutely all the time. The default setting.
    Of course on the lower and upper ends of the age spectrum there are controls or limits.
    But one negative: There are the ‘fatal attraction’ types. The types that jump you and just want to fuck-fuck-fuck and fuck summore after you’ve had enough of ’em.
    Maybe the Chateau can advise on how to cut free from those.


  28. what a gorgeous move


  29. also i’m a big fan of not capitalizing sentences when text-gaming. i’d even ditch the periods.