Spot The Overgaming

If I pounce on readers, it’s because I want you to grow as men and as Lotharios. Tuff luv. So I had to take a swipe at this text convo that reader “rlcooper” passed along.

Been reading your stuff for a while but recently realised how fucking necessary this stuff is. Just wondering if you have the time to critique some text game, free to publish. I’m a dumb ass, I know.

me: depends on what i can expect
her: hahaha nah idk. do you have expectations
me: nope, i’ll just let whatever happens happen
her: that
her: that is always a good plan
me: you know from experience huh
her: i just reckon life is better that way
me: maybe cos it is
her: true 🙂
me: you’re doing well, i like compliments
her: hahaha
her: dont want your head to explode
me: wow, never heard of a woman so frigid
her: what?
me: i’ll keep the euphemisms down
how cute, you don’t get it

Ok, spot the exact moment when he overgamed.

Take your time.




Got it?

It was here:

wow, never heard of a woman so frigid

Push-pull is a powerful seduction technique. Push-push-pull is good, too, in certain circumstances and in limited doses. But push-push-still pushing-woops time for a desperate hail mary pull is toxic overgaming. If you tease and taunt a woman long enough, she’ll eventually think a) you aren’t really interested in her or b) you’re a prick, and not the sexy kind of prick.

Right after she texted

dont want your head to explode

was the perfect time for easing up on the jerkboy gas and reeling her in gently.

no worries, i can take all the flattery you can dish out

I don’t know what happened after this chat, but I bet it wasn’t as good as it could’ve been. Constant pushing (or “going cold”) is a tell of insecurity; women have hindbrain antennae exquisitely tuned to pick up the slightest perturbations in male self-confidence. This is the art part of the art and science of seduction. You’ve gotta know when to hammer strike, and when to stay your hand and give the helpless nail a little kiss on the head.

One other observation. When he said

you’re doing well, i like compliments

it was in reply to something she wrote which wasn’t technically a compliment. But logic isn’t all that crucial to a right proper seduction. Women value feelings far more than they value internally logical conversation. The lesson here is that you shouldn’t fret too much about making sense to a woman as long as whatever you’re saying is delivered with a stout-chested bravado.


  1. Wow, never expected this to get posted up XD

    What happened afterwards:

    (About 20 mins later)
    i dont understand whats going on
    me: yep, ttyl
    her: byeee

    Realising that the length of the replies was getting longer, I felt I should retreat and regroup.


    • on December 23, 2014 at 3:01 pm having a bad day


      overall, a pretty solid exchange…

      you had the right instincts anyway…lol…trying to take the texting sexual…and that was the spot to do it…

      you learned some good lessons – don’t use words with sexually negative meanings…frigid, shame, etc. also, don’t use ‘big word’ concepts when texting…lol…or ‘three-step’ jumps of changes in meaning…here, the change-up was too obscure and you lost her…lol…also, push for IRL meet up sooner

      better responses…assume the sale…

      her: dont want your head to explode
      me: cock tease, huh? drinks at [x] at [y]

      her: dont want your head to explode
      me: oh, you will…coffee tomorrow

      her: dont want your head to explode
      me: whatever happens, happens…i’m out with friends at [x] see you there

      also, you had solid instincts to pull back when things started to go south…

      wait a couple of days and reengage if she doesn’t ping you…

      good luck!


    • @ having a bad day

      whats an e-mail to get in touch with you


      • on December 23, 2014 at 9:39 pm having a bad day

        lol…why would you want that?…

        you want some game advice? post it up here…so you can be an inspiration…trust me, your situ is not unique…lol…and you’ll get more advice than from just lil ol’ me…lol…you want to pay for that advice? there’s a donate button right up top…


      • lol fair enough..

        my story is a reply to Sentient on walawala’s post..



      • on December 24, 2014 at 3:10 pm having a bad day


        most of that story made no sense to me…lol…as written anyway… i think you are leaving out some serious context (bc with much different context, i’ve been in that very situ waaay pre-red pill…lol)…but overall you seem to have oneitis pretty bad…lol…

        you can get another chance to interact with this girl. just fess up to your aunt dying and let her know that your emotions are all over the place…

        but that isn’t going to change your internal attitude issues = beta…

        there’s no magic bullet…read a bunch of random stuff at Rational Male and in the archives here on game to start to get your head space right…then read this specifically…

        you CAN change and get better. it just takes a bunch of work…and pushing through your comfort zone to new areas…

        also, if you want a real chance at this girl, don’t reengage until your head space is right…and you KNOW how to turn it around…bc right now, she’s a lost cause…

        good luck!


      • thanks for the feedback.

        yeah, i’m all over the place in the post..

        would you re-engage with her over text (keeping in mind the last convo between us wasn’t good) or, drop her sweater off at her parents house (covertly) – pretty sure she’ll be there for xmas – lightly spray my cologne on it, leave a note saying my aunt dying yada yada..

        ..or call her up?

        At a crossroads on my actions.

        ‘predicate the link.


      • thanks for the 2 cents..

        due to the negative texts last tuesday.. highly unlikely im going to reinitiate via text..

        she’s out of town, and may be having her family xmas outside of town..

        not sure if it’s wise to leave her sweater (after throwing some of my cologne on it) in a bag with a short note saying the death of my aunt rattled me that night -should have told you etc..

        or text/call her up asking if she’s in town for the holidays – ill swing by to drop off your sweater..



      • @ having a bad day

        taking into account Rollo’s article you linked – this is what I did.

        Grabbed a xmas box, put her sweater in, with a dash of my cologne on it, put a rose on top of the sweater, and the note on top… the note said this:


        before our night in ____, i received news from my father that really affected me.
        I tried to bury it for the night, but instead it took over and ruined our evening.
        I’m sorry for including you in my grieving – its not what my intentions were.
        Merry Christmas,
        Anon” was late when I composed the note – hopefully it isn’t too ghey..


      • Re leaving sweater with note:

        I have done a similar thing recently where I pulled a burning log out of the fire/salvaged a relationship that had taken a wrong turn because I was a little needy and gave a little too much attention. Women detect that little so well….

        1) always keep selling; in your context this means that you want her to think of you fondly after reading the note; leave with a smile/joke in your note; “we had a few laughs…”

        2) you want her to think that you’ve moved on; subtle is key here; somehow cause her to think that you already have better options (e.g., “Gonna party this weekend at X event with a friend…”)

        3) mentioning your reaction to aunt’s death has to be done del-I-cut-ly and WITHOUT BEING DEFENSIVE; this has to be done as if your reaction to aunt’s death was a positive thing; you could leave this out totally

        4) The note should strongly imply that you are breaking rapport and moving on and should imply (not as strongly) that she has offended you somehow. Don’t sound butthurt in the slightest. If she has ANY interest, she will chase you to reestablish rapport. In that case, require a face-to-face meetup without any hint of sexualization. If you handle the meetup well, she will sexualize herself just to reestablish rapport.


    • her: hahaha
      her: dont want your head to explode
      me: which head


    • All methods and no theory is no way to go through life, son. You could do worse than to go read some crusty philosophy books and learn context-sensitive principles in the most general, abstract, and hormonally free way. No rBGH was added to this comment.


  2. a man who talks too much is over-gaming.


    • on December 23, 2014 at 6:05 am Whomever Wherever

      > “me: you’re doing well, i like compliments”

      She had just given him the smiley face “:)”. Time to PHYSICALIZE and SEXUALIZE the conversation. Verbal kino leading to physical kino leading to your penetration of her holiest of holies. Q: What do you have that the battery operated dildo lying in her bedside drawer does not have? A: YOU!!! You are the prize!. When she sends you that smiley face you need to start assuming the sale. You: “I’ll be at Gwyneth’s Hipster Cocktail Lounge at 9PM, sipping on a vodka martini, shaken not stirred.” Get her the hell out of TInderer Never-Never-Land and let her met The Prize in the flesh of MEATSPACE!!! It’s time for her to become aware of that great big empty gaping hole in her life which her battery-operated bedside dildo will never be able to fill – the empty hole which is precisely the absence of you.


      • on December 23, 2014 at 6:22 am Whomever Wherever

        tldr; == You are not auditioning to be her pen pal. You are auditioning to be her LOVER [and maybe even the father of her children]. So get the God-damned ball rolling. Which requires actual physical carnal-knowledge COITUS IN MEATSPACE! And she [like every other chick you’ll ever meet] doesn’t realize this, but she’s actually auditioning to be the mother of your children, too. So have some expectations for what she needs to be bringing to the table, in terms of attitude and behavior and manners and decorum [and of course whether or not she can abandon all that of shit at the drop of a hat and fuck your balls off like the wild animal she really is].


      • WW, good stuff. I like “MEATSPACE.” The way this posts sound remind me of Swingers…”you got these claws man and she’s just this tiny rabbit.”


      • +1 He had her upqualifying him and thus there was no need to neg her at all. She saw him as high status until he went social retard. He should have gone for a meetup at a certain time without naming the place, saving that for a surprise for later. Then work on creating the fantasy using texting. This goes with the flow of living life as it comes. You still need to create the fantasy and do the leg work behind the scenes so that the woman perceives the fantasy as just flowing.

        I’m gaming a woman for a non-sexual purpose. I texted a woman, “Let’s do X. Y or Z? [Y and Z are days of the week.] She texted back, “Will have to be Z because I’m busy Y.” [She actually used more words and qualified her reason for being busy. She texted back within a few minutes of my text.]

        Minimal effort and assume the sale.


      • great post Whomever

        as theasdgamer sums up…”He had her upqualifying him and thus there was no need to neg her at all.”

        once you’ve got her where you want her, you need to ease up a little. no need to give her a hard time when she’s being cool and trying to have fun with you.


      • on December 23, 2014 at 2:05 pm Whomever Wherever

        Also, when you’re assuming the sale, and telling her where’s she’s gonna meet you, you can throw in a little worldly-wise-gentleman’s jostling, almost a playful soft-neg: “And don’t waste too much time putting on your war paint or else I’ll already have left by the time you finally show up.”


      • “telling her where’s she’s gonna meet you…”

        Actually, giving a soft imperative like “let’s meet at X” isn’t the same thing. Your example is domineering, which is socially retarded.

        “you can throw in a little worldly-wise-gentleman’s jostling, almost a playful soft-neg: “And don’t waste too much time putting on your war paint or else I’ll already have left by the time you finally show up.””

        Better is “I like to keep my fun and playful attitude, so I’ll leave before I get bored from waiting…” DHV. Also lights a fire under their butts.


    • on December 23, 2014 at 8:21 am Whomever Wherever

      Wolves are better than dogs at COUNTING: Wild canines identify the number of items more often than their domesticated cousins


      • on December 23, 2014 at 8:24 am Whomever Wherever

        SCIENCE! proves that the Alpha Wolf is more SCIENCE-Y! than his Beta domesticated foot-servant [Humanities Major?] counterpart.


      • on December 23, 2014 at 8:26 am Whomever Wherever

        There’s probably an important lesson in there about demographics, as well. The USA was founded by a bunch of crotchety misfit ne’er-do-wells, with the pioneer spirit, who were willing to turn their backs on the creature comforts of European civilization, and head off into the vast unknown wilderness of North America. Whereas the last 40 or 50 years of our immigration policy [and arguably the last 150 years] have seen this country deluged by tens of millions of Beta chihuahua lapdogs who will dutifully vote every November exactly as their Masters instruct them to vote.


      • This is like a crime study that doesn’t mention demographics. If you don’t give me the breed of domestic dogs your testing against, it’s basically worthless. My dog, cute little bugger that he is, is a moron. A Border Collie isn’t.


      • on December 23, 2014 at 9:27 am Whomever Wherever

        RIght – this is a binary either/or – not much room for subtlety. But the parallel with what we talk about in the Manosphere is simply stunning. The Alpha Wolf who wins his pussy in the wild versus the domesticated Beta loser lap-dawg who only gets his pussy if his Master deigns to allow him to mount da bitch? And who likely has already been sent to the Vet to get himself castrated so that even if he were presented with a bitch in heat, he wouldn’t know what to do with it? The domesticated Beta whose stomach is always full and who’s packing a few too many extra lbs versus the Alpha in the wild who’s lean and mean and hungry and motivated and has to use his smarts to score the win?


    • The chics I banged the most were the ones I talked to the least. For the most part.


      • on December 24, 2014 at 6:58 am Whomever Wherever

        That might be a self-selecting statistic – if you can’t engage them in conversational intercourse, then you’ve got nothing left but to engage them in sexual intercourse. Although my experience has been that chicks like that [who can’t converse] aren’t any good in bed, either. Maybe I’ve been really lucky in this life, but the chicks who have cum the hardest for me have been lots of fun to talk to, as well. Which, again, might be a self-selecting statistic – maybe great physical chemistry tends to go hand in hand with great “intellectual” [or at least great “social”] chemistry?


      • I didn’t say the chics didn’t talk. I thought that was implied. Cheers and Merry Christmas, men.


  3. Well, I got the right answer, which is odd for me because I hate text game. I avoid it when possible, but study it for when it’s needed.

    rlcooper, you’re on the right track, in case you couldn’t tell. I’d rather be where you are than where the beta boy masses are. After you learn to stop pushing, you’ll be swimming in it.


  4. I have this problem and now I just back off or laugh or say nothing when it gets to this point.

    Girls will say snide or nasty things as shit tests.

    My crazy ex gf came out to a party I had organized a few weeks back. I greeted all my guests including her.

    As I backed away to pick something out my hand accidentally brushed the empty wine glass she had in her hand.

    Her: “You’re just trying to break my glass I know”.

    He: Smile..heh…yah. moves on

    Girls say stupid shit for no reason or because they want to fill time.

    Later I asked her to dance as I did all my guests. She nearly jumped out of her skin that I had come over and was so excited she didn’t know what to say.

    I was off balance partly due to her height and the drinks I’d had.

    Her: “You are weak…”

    Me: smile, eye fuck, silence.

    Would have been too easy to banter about but to what end?

    Now an update on the 27 year old who was pushing back. She was just kind of nervous. She texted me on Sunday at the exact time we’re supposed to me:

    Her: “Sorry will be running late”

    Me: My baby needs a new watch for Christmas.

    Later: “Kidnapped?”

    She was late. I didn’t lose my shit. But I did bang her hard so it was a minor inconvenience.

    Over-gaming smacks of insecurity. It’s filling the air with banter instead of just laughing it off.

    Third example girl Im gaming has the initials TX. I had a sparkly removable tattoo with a series of X’s. She was fascinated by this. We bantered back and forth how it was a secret society tattoo aimed at luring her my man cave.

    Her: TX yes, that is toxic

    Me: Tyranasaurus Rex..dinosaur try to stay current

    Her: there’s only one dinosaur here….she starts laughing….you have to give that one to me…that was good.

    Me: Not bad, you’re keeping up but still miles behind.

    She’s so proud of some witticism…why ruin it for her? It’s like an achievement to get one on me to clobber her would be over-gaming.


    • I’m well aware that what I’m doing is ‘sniping’ and I can only promise that I mean it in the best of terms, but here we go:

      You need to fucking get over your “ex”, wala.


      I almost can’t read a single post of yours without you talking about her, and if anyone questions your situation with her you’ll take up half of the page soliloquizing about how you are somehow handling it or have learned from it or whatever. You ain’t handling shit: bitch has been in your orbit for at *least* two years, now, which tells me that you’re not moving on and you’re not practicing half of the shit that is preached here. I barely come to this site anymore, but the second I see your handle I know you’re going to name drop the “crazy ex” again. I could make a fucking drinking game out of it and leave this site sloppy every time. Or dead. I kid you not – I saw your name after not having been here for at least three months, said “Gee, I wonder if he’s going to talk about his ex”, and there it was. I’m either a goddamn wizard or you have a problem.

      You’ve been here forever and I consider you one of the old guard (like that old freak who used to always bitch that modern girls needed hairier twats; i miss that guy), but for fuck’s sake move on and don’t ever speak of her again. You’re almost a parody at this point.

      Good luck.


  5. The word “frigid” is a nuke. Is there even a way to utilize it that doesn’t work better without it?


    • It is an odd term to use with someone you just met. I’d be tempted to ask him how he would know whether I’m frigid or not.


    • Completely agree. There are a few worse words that could be deployed and destroy attraction. “Frigid” is a good thing to say to a woman you really, really never want to see again.


    • “The word “frigid” is a nuke.”

      I agree. I winced when I read it.

      There’s probably a way to use frigid when the girl is being a bitchy ice queen. But not here.


    • “You remind me a little of my baby sister. She is an Ice Queen, poor thing. Sexy, but lacking in warmth.”


    • The word “frigid” is a nuke. Is there even a way to utilize it that doesn’t work better without it?

      Yeah, it’s almost as bad as calling a man “creepy”.


  6. Good lesson. Ive lost many a female to overgaming (especially via text) over the years.

    It is (IMO) also one of the easiest things to recover from. Wait a week and go in w/ Beta bait seems the best prescription. Or a dead dog/grandma/etc….

    You can spin it to show range and volatility which is a massive alpha tell and chick crack to about half of em.


  7. Check out the latest edition of Charlie Manson’s angels.


  8. Hey guys. Just a quick touch-and-go between two planes and completely unrelated I’m afraid.

    I’ve stumbled upon a great profile on OKCupid. A 22yo Big Beached Whale who describes herself as a “red-pill feminist”. I couldn’t resist and opened a convo. Best laughs in a while 😀

    Btw I promised to post a field report but never find the time to sit down with an Internet connection nearby.

    So I’ll just submit two LMR samples that made me laugh for a while.
    1. On the way to my hotel : “If I decide to take the bus and go home now, what would you say to make me stay ?”
    2. On the bed in the hotel : “Let’s just make out and leave it there.” After she had enquired whether I had condoms 😀

    Great holidays to CH and all of you guys. Christmas and New Year game ftw. Walawala, I’ll pay you a beer if we meet one day.


    • @Adamastor Glad to know my stories made a difference.


    • @Adamastor. I gamed a young intern at my company. I didn’t have that much to do with her at work so wasn’t conflicted. But I invited her to help me work a party I was hosting. She came and was very helpful, counted out all the money at the door, dressed nice and impressed everyone who thought she was very sexy.

      I told her I owed her one. “Yes, you can take me to dinner” she said. She’s 23. No game required. I teased her a bit for being so demanding but we went out tonight. I didn’t have to overgame. I sat back and let her blab. She clearly wants an older dude to guide her. She said as much.

      Then she invited herself over to my place “So you can cook for me…”

      Again…I flipped this around “We’ll cook together and you’ll bring dessert”.

      After that it was plausible deniability. She’s coming over Sunday.

      We held hands and I did the gentlemanly kiss on both cheeks to say hello and goodbye.

      She was totally cool with everything leading me to conclude what I never realized until this year. Game is the door-opener. Without it there is NO WAY I could have banged the girls under 30 this year.

      After that it’s calibration. This girl wants someone smart, funny and who can teach her something…anything.

      Key words I listened for: “freedom”… “learn something” (from movies) she mentioned she was an only child but if she could chose she’d want an “older” brother to “protect” her. She held my hand with no pulling back or awkwardness and just kind of went with it.

      I’ve noticed this with the other 23 year old. When I make a move they sort of just go with it assuming that’s what an older dude does with a girl he likes.

      Beyond teasing her and then listening intently, then DHVing, then listening intently, asking her questions and teasing her I could see she was totally into hanging out. It was fun.


      • @Wala

        It’s not that they want to learn something as much as it is they just want to be lead. Learning is an easy way of following. The same for the body language and Kino. The more direct you are and the stronger your leading with the Kino, the more “boyfriend posture” you display , that being – totally comfortable with the grabbing her hand, hand on her waist, hand o. Her shoulder, pulling her onto your lap, leading her around by the hand or arm around shoulder or waist etc. Like you have banged her a dozen times… The more comfortable she will get and more quickly.


        In a hotel post function one night with three other dudes. Seriously hot 22 yo sees me and walks up and gives me a hug. I immediately hug her back, give her a kiss then grab her hand like my gf. Our group walks on, me holding her hand the whole time. She is like where are we going. I just say after party in my room. We walk away.

        The next day the guys I was with were like wtf! That was the craziest thing I ever saw! I was just like oh well welcome to my world.

        Thing is pre game I’m sure I would have been stiff hugging her, if I did at all.


      • @Sentient

        ..if only I read this a week ago..

        We were on ‘date’ 2 of 2 in as many days.. with 3 weeks no contact off a 3 year off/on LTR, I went for it and got her out.

        First night went so well she texted me that night wondering when I’ll be in the city again.. I figured – beautiful, she’s investing.. I had a night left so we agreed on travelling an hour to the new city she’ll be moving to (and where I occasionally work) stay at a hotel etc..

        We get there late – vibe was good on the way up, but I received news right before I picked her up, an aunt whom I was close with as a child suddenly passed away..

        I didn’t tell her cause I wanted to keep it light & chill.

        When we arrived it went downhill. We were walking looking for a bar, and I didn’t hold her hand.. I knew she wanted it, but her hands were in her pockets, so I look and thought to myself “na, I want her to show me something – give me an inch and I’ll plow through..”

        But it never happened..and we sat across from each other at the bar, which was the kiss of death.

        I didn’t take the lead on kino because I wanted my ego stroked to give the ‘a-ok’..

        We head back to the hotel, both tipsy – she’s not moving an inch, I half ass try but she’s eating her sub..

        I head into the bathroom to brush my teeth..


      • She comes in behind, naked, and into the glass encompassed shower. I told myself – if she doesn’t touch you, say something, or do anything…I’m not getting in that shower..

        I didn’t. Went straight to bed. She finishes up and heads to bed.. She asks me what’s wrong??

        I said, in a non-butthurt way, that “I don’t feel desired by you…I’m not feel in anything..”

        Since we were both drinking – when I drink I can sometimes ramble if I’m passionate about something..I rambled about why I think this, and all you need is to break down your walls like I’m doing myself..

        Anyhow, I said something to the effect of she’s changing now that she’s headed to the big city.. That’s where she got up, started to cry, and said she wanted to go home..

        I used my words to smooth shit over to where, at the end, I fucked her passionately and finished on her face..

        Head to bed, with only 4 hours to get up – she has her new job tomorrow in the morning..

        We wake up, everything seems chill enough, even though she’s stressed because of the limited time she has to get there..

        We’re in the bathroom, she hands me her good sweater that she couldn’t fit into her purse (thats all she brought) and says could you please hold onto it..

        I drop her off – she kisses me (not since our bf/gf days has she said that) says “I’m sorry” and tells me to text her..

        2.5 days later I do, in a bar after work, and she says ‘we really shouldn’t see each other anymore, sat night wasn’t fun for either of us.. we’re 2 different people.. sex is good but I need more ‘mutual respect and understanding’.. doing this is exhausting for the both of us..

        I didn’t beg or plead..I agreed that that night didn’t go well because of a. b. and c.

        I was being logical, while drinking it became wordy – we were going back and forth texting, then she stopped responding..

        Next day I wake up with a massive hangover, reread wtf happened.. couldn’t believe how wordy I was (but glad I didn’t beg or plead) and texted her this..

        me “i was drinking last night and probably not making much sense. it is what it is. we should have talked about us n figure out the score, not dive bad in w nothin sorted out. don’t forget i have your sweater if you need it.”

        her: Okay thanks

        ..8 days later and I’m crushed. I had it in my hands, and I dropped it because I didn’t take the fucking lead..

        The aunt passing away really fucked with my head that night – she doesn’t know that my aunt died etc..

        I’m getting her back, one way or another. No way I’m losing another model to a larger city..

        I’m either going to text “hey you home for the holidays? ill drop off your sweater”

        or compose a note, nothing sappy, with her sweater, in a gift bag or some shit, and leave it at her parents house…with her being there back home..

        I’m not letting this one go, fellas. If only I read Sentient’s post, or had that ingrained in my head, a week earlier.


      • @Anonymous:
        “but I received news right before I picked her up, an aunt whom I was close with as a child suddenly passed away..

        I didn’t tell her cause I wanted to keep it light & chill.”

        I wanted to make a point here that i observe from this post. This fact is insightful from an inner game perspective.

        You weren’t authentic. You were afraid to reveal this situation fearing it would turn her off. As a result of this co-dependant behaviour, your own mood and vibe suffered as you juggled pretending everything was ok when what she perceived was something different.

        As a result you feel you “lost” and for now she seems spooked.

        Now revealing that your aunt died would smack of trying gain her sympathy after she distanced.

        If you had been authentic from the start I’m nearly certain you would have had a much more positive longer-term result.

        Game is “fake it til you make it”. But that is about confidence, not about sharing genuine feelings. The fact an aunt died is something very human.

        if she was unable to empathize with you, then you would be much better off and in a power position.


      • @Deleted the whole issue you have is you are validation seeking. All this looking for her to invest or make a move is your neediness for somone else to establish your worth.

        Its a loser’s game. You can never win it. Learn to self validate.

        And any girl who is spending the night with you, let alone getting naked in your presence is well up for it. Not to move on it is a huge beta fail.


    • What did you reply to 1.?


      • Nothing fancy. As we were walking, I grabbed her shoulders, turned her to face me and just said with a smile : “We both know you’re not going anywhere”.

        I found these LMR funny for the very reason that they were completely useless and that only a complete moron would have taken them seriously given the circumstances.


  9. on December 23, 2014 at 7:28 am themanofmystery2

    It smacks of insecurity. Here’s the gist of what the (evidently still beta) commenter was saying via text:

    (nervous unconscious laughter undertone) hahahahahahahahahahahahhaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaahhaahahhahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah OHMYGODCANWEGOOUTNOWPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEDONTSAYNOOKTHANKSPLEASE???


  10. I found the dialogue in the OP painful to read. The man seemed eager to chatter at high girl-speed, and I have this image of his frenzied fingers tapping on his phone, in a pantomime of the dead-end street that is “I’m completely desperate to fuck.” Then of course he lurched into calling her “frigid”, which is probably not worse than saying “I bet your vagay smells really bad and suffers from creepy discharges.” But maybe not.

    Iconic men are laconic.


  11. “women have hindbrain antennae exquisitely tuned to pick up the slightest perturbations in male self-confidence”… the most valuable line in the post. I have been thinking about teasing women a lot lately, and why it is necessary and not just a certain type of conversation. I think an attractive women can tell from tiny perturbations in your face that you think she is attractive almost immediately upon seeing her. It is like a power struggle, in order to regain the upper hand, you must be able to tease. But should you outright insult her in order to regain it? No, she will detect insecurity. Instead your teasing should take the form of maybe finding her beauty inconsequential and letting her know it. It is all tactics. Side note, imagine if this girl googles what this guy messaged her to see what it meant and finds it on this blog.


    • Study the Japanese concept of “mu”. Mu is a studied neutrality, a face devoid of the ‘slightest perturbations.’ To function at an executive level in Japan a man must be able to sustain mu at all times (prior to the riotous evening entertainments, when humanity is unleashed). Japanese execs are contemptuous of American executives and what they term their histrionic, self-centered, obvious emoting about all things.

      If a man is not in control of his face, he won’t be of his body, he will not be sovereign in his own person.

      If a man is not in control of his face, truly beautiful women will know he’s intimidated and beneath her. Good luck negging and teasing your way back into the spotlight with a 30 year-old 9 who just saw you nervously lick your lips. Conversely, if he is in command of his face, she will be forced to study him in all his dimensions, visual as well as oral. She’ll be forced to probe him for interest. She’ll wonder why he doesn’t fall apart into a giggling hyperactive idiot in her presence, as most men do. She’ll be challenged by him, and challenged to discover his secrets.

      (One could say, to be fair, that the very indifference constitutes a ‘neg’, I suppose. If so it’s of a much higher order, as it expresses an inner zen that must be possessed, not faked.)

      I adapt mu to social situations by providing a woman appropriate smiles and other compromises that social situations require; the idea is not to be robotic, but to be neither hot nor cold; neither a one nor a zero; but to be, literally, “no thing.” If we are “no thing” a woman is not seeing any diminishing perturbations.

      Pirsig on mu:

      “Yes and no…this or that…one or zero. In the basis of this elementary two-term discrimination, all human knowledge is built up. The demonstration of this is the computer memory that stores all knowledge in the form of binary information. It contains ones and zeroes, that’s all. Because we’re unaccustomed to it, we don’t usually see that there’s a third possible logical term equal to yes and no which is capable of our understanding in an unrecognized direction. We don’t even have term for it, so I’ll have to use the Japanese mu.”

      See more at:


      • Pirsig holds his wisdom up to a brightness that gives shape to a constellation that orients my leaky boat


      • Women love fantasy. Create a fantasy for the woman you are gaming.


      • Forget about this “mu” idea. Let’s just go with the good old American term “pokerface”.


      • Corvinius FTW!


      • Excellent point Buena. I was not familiar with this term but have been practicing this most of my life. I had a much older (20 years) business partner tell me once he never had any idea what I was thinking. I told him good I’ve practiced being inscrutable. He was aghast…

        Ftw the best delivery of matter of fact
        attraction is not a knowing smirk, but rather a dead eyed blank expression and cold stare, followed by a sip of you drink. Positivly unhinges women.


      • BV, poker face is fine generally and is my standard face. However, I will occasionally flash a smile of amused mastery, a cocky grin, a beaming smile, or playful dancing eyes, all of which take women by surprise and up their tingles. The poker face is the bulk of the food and the smiles are spice to whet the appetite. All are needed.

        Example of amused mastery smile. I was dancing with a woman and she was talking dirty to me. I responded with something appropriate but not dirty. She continued with a dirty question. I responded with a smile of amused mastery, looking deep into her eyes as we danced. She was hooked. I never used coarse language with her. However, I sexualized heavily with just a smile. Her coarse language was a 5h1t-test and my smile showed that it was NBD to me. I didn’t flush, look embarrassed, scold her, etc. She liked the classy response to her 5h1t-test.

        I later invited her to my truck, which she accepted. Again, heavy sexualization without coarse language. She got the message and loved it. She kino’s me and knows that she is only a possibility–not an option currently. She seems to accept that grudgingly currently, though she would rather move forward. Everything followed from the smile of amused mastery.

        Game theory needs more of an indepth look at what engagement is and why it is necessary. Example: humor with doesn’t engage a woman is beta; humor which engages a woman is alpha.


      • “If a man is not in control of his face, he won’t be of his body, he will not be sovereign in his own person.” – Buenavista

        “Master of self, master of all” – Russian proverb.


    • the point is made, but that is overstating it, they dont deserve quite that much creidt, they can be quite easily tricked


      • Truth. These text message threads are like deconstructing chess games. The creature your trying to seduce does’t moderate her urges with controls based on thinking and complex reaction. Any way you cut it – texting feels like a waste of time …


  12. >Women value feelings far more than they value internally logical conversation.

    The brightness of this gem ought to grow to that of a worthy star within the constellation that aspies turn their telescopes to.


    • I’ll go one further: women value the tone of how anything is expressed, rather than the words or ideas themselves.


      • -that’s fundamentally true


      • “women value the tone of how anything is expressed, rather than the words or ideas themselves.”

        true. that’s why when you are telling them about a conversation you’ve had with someone else, they will always ask… but how did he sound when he said it? was she making a face or did she look tense or serious? they always want more than just the words.


  13. I’d say it was even earlier: ‘me: you’re doing well, i like compliments’

    She had ZERO compliments of him to this point, it just reeks of fishing for what he said she was already doing.

    Reverse the situation to see it clearly, you are texting a girl and she suddenly says ‘i love your compliments’ youd see a needy bitch immediately.


  14. “The lesson here is that you shouldn’t fret too much about making sense to a woman as long as whatever you’re saying is delivered with a stout-chested bravado.”
    Beautiful. In times when I have an abundance of pussy (for example in the last two weeks of my last semester I fucked five new girls I’d been talking to in less than two weeks) I get so fucking weird. I say the strangest things (things most guys believe you can’t say to a girl you just met) to girls that make absolutely no sense at all, but the frame I say it in is always immaculate and I don’t backtrack what I said. At worst, the girl will essentially pretend I didn’t say anything, but usually they just go with it and enjoy it.


  15. This is an essential dynamic that gets too little attention.

    “Don’t want your head to explode”
    “At least buy me dinner first.”

    Doesn’t make all that much sense, but if she’s smart she’ll realize that she accidentally referenced ejaculation.


    • on December 23, 2014 at 2:39 pm Pyjama Wearing Ninja

      I think you’re being unfair to Krugman. His wife wrecked him when it comes to his political views, not his Jewishness. On the other hand, I think it’s comical these people don’t understand sacrificing the short term welfare of your populace for their long term interests is what statesmen do.

      What I’d do if I was Putin is cut supply dramatically until prices change and demand payment in rubles, especially from NATO members. This current situation might prompt Russia to be less open to being dependent on the West for capital, which would be detrimental to DC’s hegemony over the world.


      • on December 23, 2014 at 2:44 pm Pyjama Wearing Ninja

        Something else I’d do as Putin is buy all those gold contracts off the market and demand physical delivery. Not only is gold now at a pretty good price if you want to increase your reserves of it and dump USD on the market, I suspect if one started buying billions of those contracts and demand delivery, some nasty surprises would take place.


    • The russian tanks will roll in spring. You mess with someones money and that is reason for war. The target is apparent and obvious, the cause of the drop in oil price. The longer he waits, the poorer he gets…..


  16. on December 23, 2014 at 2:34 pm Pyjama Wearing Ninja

    Had dinner and a couple of beers with friends and we talked about morality and gun control. A guy said that the US has higher criminality and I made the point that the demographic structure of America is completely different than Sweden’s so comparing the two countries is silly. This resulted in a debate over race and criminality that I logically owned, but a girl who was visibly uncomfortable by reality kept protesting. A common friend tried to explain to her that she really has no argument and that she’s emotional about the issue. Hence “Women value feelings far more than they value internally logical conversation.” being true when it comes to women about everything.

    I felt like writing a field report too, but I don’t really have the memory to recall conversations well enough because I was progressively drunker as the night went on. Corporate Christmas parties = free booze. I met the girl I chose that night for lunch and there are two note worthy things:
    1)I chose her because she has nice boobs. She kept looking at her own rack during lunch. I made a point not to, looking into her eyes or at other people. I wonder if she kept looking down in order to prompt me to check out her boobs
    2)She said I make her feel like I want more than lunch from her and I asked her if she doesn’t think it’s normal given the situation. I initially felt like making her mention sex first in order to tease her about her having to buy me dinner first or something like that based on what she said. Instead I told her that I’m straight and she’s attractive, but that it takes more than that for the desire to materialize too. I kind of felt like she is a little soft/insecure and wouldn’t react positively to me teasing her.


    • 1) she was looking down to try and get you to check out her boobs too. But she may have also been checking “how much am I showing, and why haven’t I caught him checking the girls out yet?”

      I’ve even had women ask me flat out “how does my (fill in the blank) look today?” when they were unable to catch me scoping them out. Of course I’d already scoped them out, but I was usually in an abundance mindset when this would happen, and it obviously showed that I wasn’t starving for some visual stim.

      I’ve also had them display prominently and obviously, which cannot be ignored. So, in those cases, check them out, give a tiny smile and nod of approval, and keep talking about some other topic as if it was nice but didn’t particularly knock your socks off.

      They’ll be thinking “oh shit! My best asset is working on this man, he must be used to higher value than I am”.


  17. Your daily black on black crime. This time nine were shot.

    #blacklivesmatter. Lol, not to black “teens”.


  18. on December 23, 2014 at 3:49 pm sir lord henry mount charles

    gentlemen i require your perspective on a matter: i was in a shopping centre today and needed to use the toilets, needless to say after some searching i discover that there are only women’s toilets and children’s changing area on the ground floor and no men’s. After a considerable amount of walking around i did finally locate the men’s on the third floor near the fire exit. Any plausible explanations?????


  19. “A 20 year old Frenchman of African origin.”

    Lol it’s just comical at this point. Fuck you, Jewish liars.


  20. OT

    “She invited Mr McKellar upstairs as she was “worried someone would come in”.

    But, the court heard her son then suddenly returned home in the early hours and found his mum in bed with Mr McKellar.

    He barged the door open and yelled: “What are you doing? How could you do this to my dad?”

    His father John Mahan was working offshore at the time.

    The court heard there was then a “prolonged assault” lasting up to 20 minutes on Mr McKellar, which involved repeated punching.

    Mahan then turned on his mum slapping her on the head and calling her “a slut”.”


  21. Instead of “frigid” he could have said “you’re tease who’ll turn them on; leave them burning and then you’re gone”


    • her: dont want your head to explode
      me: Behave…

      “Behave” always works for me in reframing, sexualizing, or just passing a shit test.

      Or the old standard: “Ghey”…

      If the OP would have said that she would have immediately been backpedalling.

      “Frigid” is too overt…it’s too “try hard”.


  22. Fucking story of my life with my last relationship. It’s kind of difficult recovering the girl after over-gaming her (to the point of her pulling the rip-cord) especially if she’s really hot.

    Also, if you’re already banging the girl Id imagine the girl is even more sensitive to over-gaming


    • “Also, if you’re already banging the girl Id imagine the girl is even more sensitive to over-gaming”

      true. relationship game requires more beta comfort, less aloof alpha or she’ll start shutting down and detaching.


  23. After she said “true :)” I would’ve straight-lined to a meet up or hangout or just move forward with the convo


  24. This is suuuuuch overkill over-analysis, but I don’t care. Is anyone here familiar with “snapchat”? There’s something called a “storyline” and it allows you to post a picture with a caption or a video with a caption and any of your “snapchat friends” can see it if they want (they just click on it in the home screen for the app). When you click it and watch/see it, it notifies the creator that “that person/friend” saw your snapchat. Gay app, I know.

    Anyways my over-analysis is here:
    The hot girl that I over-gamed and had a reallyyyyy weird relationship with (we haven’t talked in 6 months, she’s in college studied abroad etc) always puts up these “storylines”. I haven’t looked at any in the past 5 months. But, the weird thing is I swearrrr she posts “storylines” that are directed at me. (You can see a really small preview of “storylines”….it’s kinda hard to explain if u don’t have it).
    For example, I always promised to get this realllllly good Mexican food at a well known place and she’ll post a close up picture of mexican food. Or something like that.

    A. Am I crazy
    B. Is this some covert way saying she wants me to initiate a convo
    And C should I look at these storylines? (And she’ll see that I’m looking at them) For example I could look at one and text her as an opener to respark?

    I told you it’s over-analysis ha



    • Over-analysis. Bitches be takin’ pics of they food for attention. Disregard her obvious attention-whoring and move on. Why are you on Snapchat, anyway? Shit’s for fags and chicks.


    • You have oneitis. Move along @will. This is the girl still in college right. Get on with your life and doing something with it.


      • @sentient I agree I have oneitis.
        Why am I getting such severe oneitis? It’s not a scarcity mentality though I swear. It usually happens when I consistently fuck the hottest of my plates or whatever. The hottest girl in my plates. I get oneitis for her. It’s shitty but I’m not sure how to prevent it.
        I’m just shocked that this girl didn’t seem to care all too much yet still let me fuck her in every position imaginable.
        She just didn’t initiate with me enough I guess maybe I was too aloof.
        Don’t get it though and the oneitis sucks (but at least I recognize it)


      • @sentient basically how do I safely fall in love with a girl without risking this self-depreciating oneitis? I was very aloof and jerk to this girl, but I do think that drove her away to where she pulled the rip chord.
        Now I feel guilty. It’s like a cycle almost ha fml. Any thoughts would help


      • @Will that feeling you have is one of “Shame” not “guilt” for the oneitis. I know…I’ve had this and have come to terms with it only recently. There is no shame in caring or even wanting someone, it’s when that becomes an over-riding obsession to the detriment of any other opportunities that you have to examine why.


  25. Dear Chateau

    This is a mail that my gf sent, please help me Rebut it

    27 ways in which Patriarchy harms men.
    Posted on December 24, 2014
    Sharing this comment by thoughtpower in response to the previous post.

    I think patriarchy harms men as well but many people don’t even realize so and are happy with current setup.

    I would be eager to know comments from readers of this blog.

    Some challenges a man faces:

    1. Expected to be breadwinner and cannot choose career of his choice
    2. Cannot choose to be home maker
    3. Not suitable for marriage unless he finds a job.
    4. Cannot watch emotional dramas or display certain emotions
    5. Cannot wear ” colorful clothes”
    6. Expected to shoulder unfair responsibility as elder son
    7. Not accepted if physically weak
    8. Looked down upon if they choose certain professions.
    9. Expected to do all the work outside home.
    10. Unfair labels when he chooses to treat wife as equal partner
    11. Unfair expectations to keep pleasing parents
    12. Not allowed to be a doting type of father
    13. Earn/study more than his partner
    14. No say in aesthetics of house decoration
    15. Expected to learn driving and drop/pick others even when a female family member is equipped to do that
    16. Struggle in reporting sexual harassment
    17. Limited career opportunities as male sex workers because female sexuality is repressed.
    18. Looked down while expressing dislike for sports/violence/cars
    19. High expectations due to male stereotyping on how to win over a girls heart and so called Mardangi.
    20. Decision to not have kids gets difficult due to unfair burden of carrying family name
    21. Financial success as chief barometer of a man’s success
    22. Paternal leave for longer duration looked down upon
    23. Cannot marry a woman older than him
    24. Patriarchy effects men and women in different ways. Deep rooted belief in some women that patriarchy doesn’t affect men at all.
    25 Father of daughter expected to shell out his hard earned money to son in laws or as dowry.
    26. For someone really interested in good relationships, being too close to relatives on the spouse side looked down.
    27. If only parents were as happy with happily married sons as they are with happily married daughters. Treatment of daughter’s spouse versus treatment of the spouse of the son.


  26. Some advice here would be appreciated. Is it beta or alpha to send a christmas message to people who are your work acquaintances? game principles included would be most welcome. thanks


  27. Lol when a black felon “gentle giant” is armed with 300 pounds of bone and muscle, he is an “unarmed black teen.”

    But when a black man is armed with a gun, he is just an “armed man.”

    Here’s the thing, Jews: We know what you are doing.


  28. This is an example of why I like face to face talking more. When you say something stupid you can see in her face the words that made it happen.

    Text is fine for record keeping and breaking things down…but you don’t see the reaction as well.


    • “Text is fine for record keeping and breaking things down…but you don’t see the reaction as well.”

      yeah, there is a lot lost in translation when you try to communicate with women via text. can cause a lot of misunderstandings and stress. other than the required check ins every so often for when we can’t connect in person, i try to only use texts for scheduling, arranging logistics etc.


      • “other than the required check ins every so often for when we can’t connect in person”

        funny you should mention check ins…

        been having trouble with this lately. what is the general consensus on how often a guy should be checking in with a long distance FWB who i can only see every couple of weeks? like her and want to keep her around but i’m struggling.

        for example, i saw her last week. great time. sex was good. she texted the next day saying she had a great time. i didn’t write back. don’t want to seem too into her and lose the upper hand. she’s hot. i also figured everything was good. she said she had a good time. i had a good time and she knew it because i told her when she was over. so morning after text then a few days go by with no contact. when i hear from her she seems cold and distant.

        my question is:

        is it really necessary to respond when she texts the next morning like that? she knew i had fun the night before and this isn’t the first time we’ve hooked up. this isn’t a full on LTR so i don’t get why the morning after comfort crap is still necessary. am i missing something or is she just insecure and needy?


      • A woman who texts the morning after is looking for comfort. Give her a little attention, but not too much.


      • @ theasdgamer

        thanks for the response. you were dead on about her needing comfort.
        sent her a quick text basically ignoring the cold and distant vibe. didn’t want to keep the heavy mood going so i kept it light and fun. she perked up immediately. we are meeting up again next week.

        need to try heading these things off before they get out of hand but i really struggle to find the right balance. like i said before, i want to keep her around. she’s fun, hot and an all around great girl.

        the truth is, she’s a higher quality girl than i’m used to and has lots of options. anyone looking at us would say she’s way out of my league. it was sort of a fluke that we even ended up going out.

        so every time i have a great night with her, i automatically go into cold distant mode afterwards. don’t even do it intentionally always. i think it’s out of fear that i’ll come off looking too interested and she’ll dump my pathetic ass. then it backfires and she thinks i’m not interested enough.

        so much easier to go with the flow when you’re dealing with average girls who have crappy personalities. gets tough when you find a girl you actually like…lol.


      • Glad the comfort helped. I think that she wants to up her status with you. Watch out for Oneitis, buddy, even if you enter a LTR with her.

        It helps to let your woman friends in on knowledge about stuff that will help them that men know about but women tend not to. Offer them a little more comfort and some useful info. It adds a nonsexual dimension that shouldn’t cost you much effort. Woman often want a friends dimension to go along with sex.


    • Getting the girl to go out with you via pure text is not much of a problem but pick up the phone sometimes and call. Most of my natural buds are on the horn a lot. Solely text in is a sign of immaturity me thinks.


  29. Now MSM is publishing stories about black police officers saying they live in two worlds. Another blood on the media hands and violence I predict: we are going to see a black police officer shoot a completely innocent white man

    The white victim, in contrast to the recent black thugs killed, will be a completely law-abiding citizen who is a family man with two kids he is working hard to support every day, Who is not attacking the officer beating the fuck out of the police officer trying to steal his gun or waving around a replica gun at a park or playing chicken with cars in the middle of the highway.

    I now feel scared when I see a black police officer, armed by the state and licensed to shoot me dead because of affirmative action, while I am not permitted to carry a gun. Black police officers are there because of affirmative-action with their IQs of about 90. They don’t really understand what is going on here (MSM narrative conformity) and are brainwashed by the media like all the other sheeple.

    Every minute every day and my kids are in a slightly bit higher amount of danger than it should have been that they were grew up without a father because of diversity and Jewish narrative conformity.



    Read between the lines. Jew working 100% with US taxpayer money to help solely Jews in Cuba now gets $3.5 million more from American people for his work solely to help the international Jew.

    Oh and because a Jew was captured doing espionage, 70 years of US foreign-policy was altered and we released Cuban criminals who actually murdered people.

    It is very obvious that the international Jew controls the Obama administration as itcontrolled George W. Bush’s.


  31. Merry Christmas all. My life,although in a rough patch, is much better now with everything I’ve learned from here. Thanks.


  32. how down in the road of alphaness is not having expectations (as he answered early on the conversation)? That’s my point of undergaming in that convo


  33. At a certain point the female was talking to themselves more than the interlocutor, which implies that attraction isn’t really coming up here. The inconsistency might be more explicable here, at the same time the female speaker was gaining affirmation without really much direction or so to speak unconditionally, which seemed a bit soft, desire was unreciprocated and the most consolation the girl could offer is that what you never have, you never miss.