The Rules Of Social Savviness: Rule #2

Social Savviness Rule #1 was: Don’t Get Defensive. Also known as the “If you show your soft underbelly, people will claw at it until your guts are sliding out” rule.

In this post, we will discuss the second of the three Rules of Social Savviness:

Rule #2: Don’t Force Conversation Topics.

Men have a thermal exhaust port. We are too logical. No, seriously. Logic is great for building bridges that won’t collapse and for inventing calculus, but it’s horrible as a mental facility for managing relationships or persuading women to see your point of view.

(Women have a thermal exhaust port, too: Their emotional bonding and subsequent rationalization for their feelings that blinds them to a man’s true motives.)

Logical thinking is how theories are formulated, arguments are devised, and solutions are hard-won. Men, by dint of years of exposure to their own natures, have resilient egos which can withstand blows by opposing forces and regroup for another day of adventure and creative-destruction. Unlike women who retreat to deeper delusions when their egos are struck by reality, men can, to varying degree, take an ego shock in stride and incorporate new evidence that will accrue to their personal advantage.

That male trait which is a gift in non-romantically infused contexts is a handicap when the opposing force is an alien who doesn’t play by the rules of logic. That force is female self-love, from which all absurdities of thought and peculiarities of reason flow.

So what happens when the unstoppable force of male logic meets the immovable object of female self-love? You get what we in the seduction business call a stubborn refusal to let an orphaned conversation thread die out when it isn’t being received well by female company.

We’ve all seen this happen to some hapless over-logical male: The triumphant quasi-announcement of a scintillating conversation topic nursed in a split second judgment that the gathered will be amazed by his wit and wisdom, the forthright glee with which it is presented for studio consumption, the leaking of confident airs from his demeanor as he too slowly realizes no one is reciprocating his energy or spring-boarding off his brilliance, the stuttering follow-up as one or two congregants, usually women, ricochet unpredictably into new topical territory, the prison of silence that muffles him as he surrenders to the reality that the crowd has MOVED ON.

And then, the most awkward moment, the anti-climax he will regret for months if he is young and for an hour or two if he is older and giving less fucks about life’s sadistic pop quizzes. That moment, after the conversation has fully turned and spasms of fresh vigor have been injected by girlicues following their bouncing bubbly balls, when he throws himself, bellyflop style, onto the organic rhythm of the back and forth with a last-ditch effort to impose his previous stream of concreteness. And, naturally, the reddening splash turns to reddening hue as eyes of pity shot with capillaries of contempt answer his logical insistence with an ocular writ of cease and desist.

He is humbled, and his allies in male logic abandon him as the women take the lead to rescue a souring scene. As go the tingles, so go the tumescents.

If you get what you think is a winning conversational theme in your head, be prepared to abandon it at a moment’s notice. Like De Niro* might say about seduction, don’t get attached to a topic you aren’t willing to drop in ten seconds flat, if you feel the female heat around the corner.

(*Running ref gag.)

Let threads die. Don’t attempt to revive threads at a later time. Don’t beat a fun time over the head with your genius insight that the world is fated to endure. Don’t hammer home a message when the crowd has decided it’s time to talk about something else. If you can master the art of artfully dodging your own bull-headed self-loyalty, you can learn to appreciate the percolating jazziness of verbal foreplay. It’s a talent that comes second-nature to women, but which men — especially autist spectrum men — have to work at to achieve the same level of instinctive grasp.

If you feel that headstrong voice egging on your ego to drive home a point, don’t listen to it. Avoid its tempation. Choose strife. Accept that conversations and social pressures will be chaotic, and that from this bubbling froth of flirty banter that is outside of your narrow mental alleyways and that flourishes under both your simultaneous command and acquiescence, real desire can erupt, like a solar flare.

Women measure a man’s mate worth by many more variables than just his shoes or square jaw. They measure his wit, his grace under pressure, his adaptability. Can he steer discursive switchbacks with confidence? Can he quickly disown colloquially limp lows while claiming careening conversational highs as his own? These tells of a man’s alpha nature — and yes, they are the distinguishing hallmarks of the alpha male personality — are subtle enough to be missed by other men with eight-cylinder powered logical minds, but are magnified to outsized relevance by intuitive women with a million years of evolution to guide them toward the vessel of their orgasmically up-sucked überseed.

One trick I have learned that has helped me avoid the error of forcing conversation topics is to relinquish a flowering thought at the moment when the crowd wants to hear more of it. Better to err on the side of leaving a topic stranded close to a high note rather than beating it to death past its expiration note. You are not a stand-up comedian with a captive audience and a mic; you are a man in a group of people all more or less equally competing for air time. Use the floor wisely. Your wit should be a gift, not a chore.

Next post: Rule #3!





Comments


  1. “A fanatic is one who won’t change his mind and won’t change the subject.” ~ Churchill

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    • on August 19, 2013 at 2:47 pm Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM)

      Rule #2: Don’t Force Conversation Topics.

      lzozozlzlzlzozozlzolzlzo hey honeysz we can talka bout anyting u wantz just as long as it is SHAKEOSPWARE HOMER AND DA BIBLE SHAKEPSERARE HOMER AND DA BIBLEZ lzozlzlozzl
      SHAKESPEARE HOMER & DA BIBLE IN DAT ORDER!
      oh wat?
      wat?
      you don’t know anytihngz about SHAKEPSERARE HOMER AND DA BIBLEZ?
      well denz i will talk aboutz SHAKEPSERARE HOMER AND DA BIBLEZ,
      and to keep your mouth busyz
      u can sucksz on this lzozlzlzoz
      and when i pull out
      it will be
      da smartest thingz dat ever came out of your mouthsz!
      lzozoozzlzolzolzolzol

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      • on August 19, 2013 at 3:23 pm Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM)

        lzlzozozlzlozlozolzol modern marriage + drones = AWESOMEZ!!!

        lzlozozlozlozolzo

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      • CH ur twitter feed (the links) are maddening today.

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      • on August 20, 2013 at 4:42 am gunslingergregi

        smartest thing that came out of your mouth lol
        using that one if a bitch tries to spit

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      • CH, I repeat: how the fuck can you even stand to read Huff Post and do what you do here? I’m about to truly check out, including leaving this blog (no offense to you). Dwelling in truth doesn’t provide any actual benefits and just leads to despair. Ignorance is bliss. That last tweet does it.

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    • on August 19, 2013 at 4:46 pm electricangel

      Can’t change his mind, and won’t change the subject.

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  2. on August 19, 2013 at 1:59 pm Lucky White Male

    Interesting – you’re saying don’t focus on much Logic at all when seducing

    What do you think about Krauser including “Intellectual Mastery” as a key part of his Game?

    http://krauserpua.com/2011/02/10/intellectual-mastery-1/

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    • I’ll read it later. Right now, what I’ll say is that game is a product of the logical male mind. Intellectual mastery of the self is therefore a prerequisite to seducing women, unless you are a natural for whom these things don’t need to be spelled out. From the logical foundation of game derives the intuitive application of game, where the effort is made to “hide the workings of the machinery” so to speak.

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    • If you’re bright, the intellectual mastery part will be automatic. If you stress it, the analytical flavor will be way too strong and she’ll be distracted away from the feelings you want her to have.

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  3. I tried arguing some points of logics the other week with women @ work and it totally didn’t click to them. I was like WTF! What is wrong with them!

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  4. Some of the best gaming nights I’ve had have utilized absolute absurdity and non linear thought. I was a dental floss tycoon (thanks Frank Zappa) hot air balloon racer that was growing out my pubes.

    Apparently that’s a lot of women’s type.

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  5. on August 19, 2013 at 2:10 pm Lucky White Male

    ^ Re: “Intellectual Mastery” here is Part 2

    You’ll see among other things he recommends actually focusing on a topic in order to demonstrate IM

    You can read about his reasons why. The biggest reason for me – he claims that to get hottest women, in his own experience, the best way is to ‘beat her mind into submission’ so to speak. The way is through IM

    http://krauserpua.com/2011/03/24/intellectual-mastery-2/

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    • I imagine you’re expecting to groom a contradiction where there is none. These posts are called the Rules of SOCIAL Savviness for a reason: they deal with optimal ways of behaving in social settings, which implies more than one man-one woman. Krauser’s intellectual mastery is excellent game when you have a girl one-on-one, and are drawing her deeper into your world.

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  6. Chicks don’t get logics from a male standpoint. Arguing logics with women is a waste of fucking time! They won’t understand, nor will they aim to understand. That’s why illogically is the best way to communicate with women as we teach in pickup. Just don’t make sense and you’ll see how much sense you make to women ;)!

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    • It really blows my mind, I’m a very logical person, I back my views with evidence, and form a concrete conclusion. To a woman? Nothing matters but how it feels. I have this argument all the damn time with a female friend of mine with alsorts of topics. They’re absolutely full-willing to COMPLETELY ignore a conclusion, even if it IS 100% right, based on how it feels. I guess the world we’re in today makes a lot of sense, when you view it through their warped perspective. Doesn’t matter what’s right or wrong, best or worst, as long as it gives them a good feeling…

      I have quite a scientific mind, that pursues truth. Tis so bloody hard to completely ignore that truth when dealing with women. 😦 Will really have to remember to take this point on board as I’m so bloody guilty on it, tis tough to just give up on something that ALL evidence points to being right. To a woman, what she feels and says is right, none of the evidence matters.

      Why the hell IS it that the main resources of the male mind that were used to build civilisation, are absolutely useless at attracting (quite the opposite) mates to breed with, so there’s people to actually live in it?

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      • Why? Because all of us are warped, way down deep, men and women alike. Things don’t work the way they ought because the very essence of humanity is twisted.

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      • on August 20, 2013 at 8:36 am Hugh G. Rection

        Why the hell IS it that the main resources of the male mind that were used to build civilisation, are absolutely useless at attracting (quite the opposite) mates to breed with, so there’s people to actually live in it?

        Culture develops a lot faster than our brains and bodies, basically.

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    • I was listening to Rush today and this http://www.latimes.com/opinion/commentary/la-oe-janis-father-death-rush-limbaugh-20130818,0,7858398.story story got me thinking… Then I stop by here and read this post and it kinda connected to me. Rush was talking about how to wake people up who are pretending to sleep… The thing that I noticed… The guys daughter could of just said nothing, let her dad have it his way, and never even bring up that he loved Rush, and nobody would of been hurt and everyone would of been happier. Yet she could not just let it go, she had to have her way and her dad had to finally, a month before he died, relent. Her beliefs of Rush were not founded in her life experience, or empirical experience. They were founded in lies, yet she believed them with every ounce of her being, not even the love for her father would allow for the sunlight of truth to call into question her beliefs. Anyways, where I wanted to tangent back to the main topic, chicks dont want to argue logic, they want to be entertained. Reagan would use 1 or 2 line jokes to combat the media, and really, if a guy just does that, he will have success with women and life.

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    • on August 19, 2013 at 6:52 pm Captains Courageous

      Exactly.

      Men will judge a subject by – weighing up its pros and cons – and then forming an opinion that fits the facts as he sees them.

      Women will judge a subject by – how it makes her feel – and then form an opinion that fits that feeling.

      Or put more poetically…

      Men are governed by lines of intellect – women : by curves of emotion. (James Joyce)

      It’s the very reason why you can never convince a women of a truth that shows her in a bad light. [She feels no guilt (women are immune) so your truth doesn’t fit]

      But its also why you can make her attracted to you by saying something that an AFC would think crazy – [She feels the tingle first and then figures “I must like this guy“]

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  7. Deliberately letting some beta dork sandbag your conversation is a great way to establish status, by the way. Let someone else be the talkative blowhard. He has to be truly charismatic to shove through without tripping up; the odds are against him.

    And if he helped break up something “boring” you were saying to some bimbos, then all the better.

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    • It also shows confidence. She sees that you don’t recognize the beta blowhard as competition any more than she does.

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  8. Angel baby, I hate you so much now, but I think everyone should shut up and listen when you talk because you are so brilliant and articulate and clever. True story.

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  9. In more succinct language: don’t talk to girls like you would talk to guys. Guys like to talk about logical stuff, and you shouldn’t be discussing logical stuff with the illogical sex.

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  10. That was a lot of metaphors to wade through but I think I made it.

    I used to have this problem, but no so much forcing topics as getting too detailed and trivial on any topic. Jeopardy trivia stuff that guys like but women could not give two shits about. For example, the odd fact that Brett Favre completed his first NFL pass to himself may interest some men, but .000001% of women. Alcohol, for some reason, only fuels the fire….a drink or two can make a man contemplative and in search of empirical truths. Better to just talk about astrology or some shit. Women love the cosmos in general but don’t want to know what it’s all made of.

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    • on August 19, 2013 at 2:55 pm FuriousFerret

      “For example, the odd fact that Brett Favre completed his first NFL pass to himself may interest some men, but .000001% of women”

      I think you should expand further about ever bringing up sports as a topic of conversation unless around boring co-workers as this seems to be the last bastion of safe topics in the corporate world.

      Doing sports is great, but endlessly watching and talking about them just reeks of being a pathetic loser. I mean what you are essentially doing is hyping up an apex alpha male that isn’t you. What’s the point?

      I watch every UFC usually out at some type of bar and I watch the Washington Redskins. However, I have refrained from wasting hours of my life reading about petty drama and predictions on ESPN like I used to do. It absolutely does nothing to enrich my knowledge or life in general. I would rather spend my internet goof off time on CH or other blogs. At least that way I get entertained and glean helpful life tips.

      I personally know of guys that will spend all day every Sunday watching NFL games simply to be watching football even when their own hometown team isn’t playing. These guys have never played football nor will they. They simply like to live vicariously through athletic freaks that wouldn’t piss on them if they were on fire while ironically enough making themselves even more non-athletic through a diet of a dozen beers and endless nachos.

      On the topic of sports stars, would anyone else agree that Chael Sonnen should be the official CH sports athlete?

      – Outspoken hard right conservative
      – Trolls the living shit out of people
      – Is a master of promotion and psychology
      – Runs hard Game on chicks. See Rhonda Rousey text messaging story.
      – Has been caught in numerous scandals that would end the careers of lesser men yet is at the top of his game right now because of outright denying and shamelessly working the system.

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      • Sundays during NFL season are prime for day gaming bookstores and coffee shops (probably malls too). No boyfriends in sight.

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      • Dude, Shhh !

        You’ll ruin it for us.

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      • Spectator sports are entertainment, like film, tv, internet, music, and books. Enjoy in moderation, and do not wear apparel with another man’s name on it or anything that reads “Property Of.”

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      • Chael Sonnen is God’s gift to MMA. Shame that he had to finish Shogun.

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      • “Chael Sonnen is God’s gift to MMA”

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      • on August 19, 2013 at 6:48 pm FuriousFerret

        Chael Sonnen has Game!

        Cliffs:

        – Chael sees model and cold approaches
        – Model leaves and Chael tries to find her again
        – Chael finds her and tells her his phone went dead and ask to borrow hers
        – Chael calls himself and then when Model leaves he texts “Don’t give you phone to strangers”
        – Chael gets date the very next day and is married to smoking hot 9/10.

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      • lol even Anderson Silva would have to admit that that was solid game. Good stuff Chael, now just stay out of the octagon lol

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      • – Chael calls himself and then when Model leaves he texts “Don’t give you phone to strangers”
        – Chael gets date the very next day and is married to smoking hot 9/10.

        Oh-kay… it says Chael “gets date the very next day”. How exactly did he get a date? Did she call him after his smart-aleck text? Or did he call her?

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  11. Leading the Surfing the waves of conversation has a couple other advantages:
    1) You can close a set, leave, let them miss your presence as a generator of fun, interesting conversation, hit on other women, work the room, without losing any alpha cred when you return.
    2) It encourages you to occasionally exit the set and do the above.
    3) Helps with bringing in and freezing out people as needed to move seduction forward. The free flow allows better riffs on people and makes it easier to AMOG.

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  12. “Unlike women who retreat to deeper delusions when their egos are struck by reality….”

    This is the key point of this post. This is true even if the woman can achieve a 130 on an IQ test. Women don’t want to be told or face the truth, especially if they are one of the rare ones who are smart enough to sort of get the things that are taught here. They will retreat to the world of the beta enablers and attention whoring on FB that make them feel better.

    This reminds me of September 22, 2001, when my HB9 girlfriend at the time went out partying 11 days after 9/11. Now, there are a lot of theories about 9/11 now, but at that time the nation was in mourning. “But it’s my birthday!!!!” is all HB8 and above girls’ response. We basically broke up because of that.

    Women are *incapable* or *unwilling* (one or the other) of considering any serious “big picture topic like the state of the world, the fact that whites are engaging in slow self genocide because white women won’t get married and have kids in their 20s, etc. The thing that is made fun of today by Frankfurt school drones that was depicted in the movie “Titanic” showing 1912 really is true: women have no interest in or ability to discuss business or politics.

    I again refer you to match.com, where women aged 25 to 42 put their *extreme* ignorance and inability to write a paragraph that is not riddled with typos and grammar errors on full display, and *proudly*. (And forget punctuation; women make no attempt at all, purposely, to use punctuation.) (In that regard they are like too-cool-for-school black basketball players. It’s not cool to try. The advice given here about texting (it’s alpha to not use proper grammar) applies in the real world, outside of texting, even to “educated” women who are *teachers*. zlzozlozlzolzozlzozlzozlozlzoz

    Yours truly,

    Checked Out

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    • The worst subset of logical topics to discuss with women is anything object oriented- cell phone parts, hard drives, car parts- forget it. Very few women will be drawn to such a conversation. You can talk about sports, but it has to be in a way that’s related to images and not details. For example, you can say X team plays dirty so they belong in X city. But you ought not talk about sports stats.

      I don’t know about intellectual topics that involve abstract logic. As in string theory or fiscal policy etc. I don’t know the kind of reaction you’d get to that in general.

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      • on August 19, 2013 at 3:12 pm FuriousFerret

        “You can talk about sports, but it has to be in a way that’s related to images and not details. ”

        If you must talk sports to girls, the best is to tell them about the various stars personal lives i.e Brett Farve sexting interns. Point out these Apex Alpha males lack of social intelligence and how fucking dumb they are and contrast this with your own awesome social intelligence showing how you are superior in some respects to a man that has a SMV a thousands times greater than your own.

        Women try to this and it simply doesn’t work. They will point out how Megan Fox is a slut or something stupid and they don’t realize that men could give a fuck. Her value is set because she’s super hot. Unless your tits are extremely large there is nothing that a normal woman has that is better than Megan Fox.

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      • You can count on this- women are very lacking in general knowledge about all topics except for celebrity lives. If you write some comment about the size of some celebrity’s legs, there will be 12 women that respond to that comment. If you write something about a paper Charles Murray wrote once, you will have zero women responding to that comment. There are a few women who can discuss the arts, but that is about it. Even for women with IQ 130+, Women generally do not retain information about history, science etc well enough to access it quickly in a conversational setting. The exception is a few girls with some aspergery traits, who can rattle on a bunch of concrete facts, but they themselves have difficulty conveying their facts in a way that would be interesting to another listener.

        However, I find that for some women, you can make them feel like they are smart just by talking about a “smart person” topic. It should actually be a topic that could be understood by an elementary schooler (like interesting facts about some cool animal), but a woman might feel that she is smart if she shows interest in a smart person topic.

        Regarding your comment about dissing celeb women, though It doesn’t work with celebrities, it does work with girls in your own circle. That’s why girls have evolved to do it. If you make a guy believe that the girl he is ogling has slept with a bunch of guys, it will change the type of interest he has in her.

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      • You are a troll, go away.

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      • on August 19, 2013 at 4:32 pm FuriousFerret

        You have to admit though that she does sort of provide the Tits in her avatar photos. Just sayin’.

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      • Why are you trying to drive away our female contributors? I think they are saying some honest and interesting things. And it never hurts to have an idea of how the other side is thinking.

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      • Thanks David, but they’re just angry little trolls, don’t bother. I think it’s funny.

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      • “Why are you trying to drive away our female contributors?”

        Contributors. … I LOL’d.

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      • Angry, they are, Amy.

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      • on August 19, 2013 at 9:53 pm Imperial Leather

        @David

        you have a wife and you are here to get help you say…and yet….here you are…wanting to listen to what the other side thinks…….maybe your here because you have been listening too much in your 15yrs+ of marriage to what the other side thinks

        listen and read to what the men say for a while…it will take you some getting used to it seems

        otherwise your trolling is excellent – 2 stars

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      • Any specifics there? I think that I listen a lot to what guys say here.

        I’ve made posts about how single person’s game does or does not apply in my situation with an old but continuing marriage including children. One other guy just said he’s married 25 years, much longer than me, and he keeps things in line by threatening to fuck other women. Do you think I am being too defensive and should do that too?

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      • on August 21, 2013 at 1:32 am Imperial Leather

        @David

        Firstly, what do you want, be as specific as you can.

        Don’t reply here to me.

        Do a search first of the archives, your answers may lie there, test anything that resonates, adjust accordingly.

        Then come back and ask specifics from the men here.

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      • on August 19, 2013 at 4:43 pm Imperial Leather

        you desperately want to be a man, don’t you

        face it, you never will be able to talk like one

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      • In what way would my life be improved if I were a man?

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      • on August 19, 2013 at 4:55 pm Imperial Leather

        you would get quickly to the point…….like you just did

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      • Feministx: “In what way would my life be improved if I were a man?”

        I’ll just savour that for a moment.

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      • I don’t know about intellectual topics that involve abstract logic.

        At this point we’d be impressed if you demonstrated familiarity with elementary logic.

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      • I figure the type of guy that would be more prone to reading this blog would have the same problem interacting with women that I do. It is that if you are smart, you naturally gravitate to other people that operate on a similar level. But 90% of the women who are smart are seriously indoctrinated into post modernist BS theory, and it actually colors every intellectual topic they discuss. A history topic becomes about white privilege. A science topic becomes about the wrong kind of people (conservatives) opposing science. They add little in terms of information to the conversation and instead bitterly defend the concepts of leftist theories. So basically, you almost cannot have an intelligent conversation with an intelligent woman. And if you are a guy, you are attracted to women for how they look anyway, which doesn’t exactly correlate perfectly with how their minds operate. So you started talking to them because you liked how they look, which doesn’t help the chance that they are actually bright.So, you end up talking to pretty girls who are not that bright. It’s not a problem, but what can you talk about to them that they can actually relate to? I guess it leaves funny stories, interesting places you went and popular culture.

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      • This makes sense. The difference of course is what happens after you start interacting. For you, if there’s nothing to talk about, presumably you move on, and there’s really nothing else to fill the time anyway. (I suppose you can bring up the celeb stuff as a time filler.) For guys, the next step is along a path of game and emotional bonding with a sexual tinge, so we have an incentive to tolerate those periods of normal conversation every now and then.

        Guys complain that girls are rude and expect them to be less rude. But one thing that they maybe don’t think about is that the girls are rude to each other too. Girls talk shit about each other, let the door slam on each other, and are just generally cold to everyone. This is just the way they are, and guys are asking a lot of they want the girl to change for them. So some adaptive behavior, as women have learned to do with each other, can go a long way when it comes from a guy with that special thing we have to offer.

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      • I don’t know if girls are as mean to each other as they are to guys that express romantic interest in them. My impression is that a lot of girls are mean to each other in early adolescence, but they stop that by adulthood. Some girls will talk about their friends negatively behind their backs. Others will not. But again, ultimately I can’t say if girls tend to be nicer or meaner to females than males. But if you are a female, you won’t be punished for showing too much affection to a girl. It’s not like that would make my female friend like me less somehow.

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      • on August 19, 2013 at 7:53 pm Imperial Leather

        your desperate to be treated as an equal, aren’t you…..female

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      • Nope, male. Not esp. macho, but a married man who likes to see the game from both sides. I don’t have any idea wtf you are talking about. Since I am married over 15 years with kids, I am unlikely to be desperate, at any rate I am not. But I read here to get help with my marital relationship.

        Does my line of thought threaten you somehow? Please explain what led you to your comment because I want to understand, or at least tease and frustrate you if you can’t handle this logical questioning.

        Please answer, don’t be a driveby shithead. TIA.

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      • on August 19, 2013 at 9:08 pm Imperial Leather

        i was addressing the female

        the comment reply section here is quirky until you work it out

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      • Haha! You sound like a creature from another planet saying, ‘I was addressing the female.’

        LOL! What kind of talk is this?

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      • on August 19, 2013 at 9:56 pm Imperial Leather

        planet earth talk….female

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      • Hahaha!

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      • Sorry Imp. Leather, pls. disregard my display of temper then …

        One really cool thing about this blog is the very large amount of contributions from the women. Do you think all of them are just trying to be more like men by hanging out here, or is this something you see different in fx, and if so what is the difference.

        Her comment seemed pretty normal to me. Though I’ve seen women slam doors in each others’ faces and just generally act like they typically don’t give a shit about other women (if they actually care a little, they call each other bff’s) so I am having a bit of trouble reconciling fx’s comment with what I have observed.

        I think that through a whole childhood and adolescence of not having what men consider real same-sex friendships, girls develop excellent skills at coping with others who are cold to them. If men could do that half as well with women as women do with each other, the men would have an easy time socially.

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      • on August 21, 2013 at 1:17 am Imperial Leather

        @David

        Yes. Females are trying to compete (commandeer) male thought here to their own ends, that is why you have all the regurgitated in one form or another male talking points and ideas throughout the sphere.

        Were I too lift up one lonely finger to a single innovative contribution that females have made to the red pill…..well as far as my Sauronic eye can see……there wouldn’t be one.

        Do you really think females could or would have ever come up with the red pill knowledge without men

        Anything they bring to the table is merely footnotes at best.

        Being concerned with how female childhood or adolescence plays out is irrelevant, another form of beta bait or indoctrination.

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      • Heck, Imperial, maybe you just don’t like my style, or maybe there’s a lack of understanding between us. Telling me to go read the archives and then ask you specific questions doesn’t feel like the start of a beautiful friendship. But I’ll try one more time.

        I do find women interesting. That includes I guess things that you consider brainwashing. It seems obvious to me that in seeking more effective interactions with women, one might at least enjoy it more if one knew a bit about where they’re coming from. Besides I just like to understand stuff.

        It’s like playing poker where you can have clues about other players’ hands. Or bridge where the essence of winning strategy is to dope out what the other players are holding. Or blackjack where one can play “basic strategy” and lose slowly, or count what’s left in the deck and have the chance actually to win in the long run. If you are using a set of game rules and not living vicariously from the female side as well, I am sure you’re missing something, at least missing some fun. And women like to talk about themselves! It’s as if God has made this process very doable for us!

        Sincere women can have useful insights or comments about dealing with women like themselves. That doesn’t mean they are the experts above men on women generally or the best source of such advice. (Sorry ladies, I am being honest here.) Indeed, since my belief is that women don’t even like to think about other women, although they cannot avoid obsessing pretty often, they can say some pretty incorrect things about “women in general”. If you want to talk to someone who cares about women in general, talk to a man! It’s well known here, and completely consistent with my experience, that asking a girl what she wants is at best a waste of time. I was preaching this principle elsewhere as something I had figured out, before I even found this place. (1) She doesn’t know what she wants, (2)what she wants isn’t the same as what you want her to have, (3) she may not be completely honest in providing her true opinion because she’s full of agendas, etc. etc. But still I like to ask.

        Don’t worry about me too much, I never promised to believe all the answers. Sometimes it’s even interesting to see what they avoid saying. One can check with followup questions, some of which get no response for some reason. But this place is better than most social situations, and the women here have the courage to answer whatever I’ve asked.

        Like


      • on August 21, 2013 at 2:48 am Imperial Leather

        you talk a lot

        What is your question…be specific

        Like


      • on August 19, 2013 at 5:05 pm FuriousFerret

        “So basically, you almost cannot have an intelligent conversation with an intelligent woman.”

        In today’s society, intelligence has actually been used as a weapon against the intelligent in some type of twisted social logic bomb.

        The way I see it with regards to leftist fantasy theories is that it’s a lab virus designed to infect the intelligent with the ones that escape fall into three categories:

        1) people that are super intelligent. This intelligence allows them to see through the lies that they are because they conflict with basic bio mechanical tenants.

        2) people that were so fucked over by the fantasy ideologies that they were forced to convert.

        3) Be stupid. That’s why you see hicks, rednecks, etc not being feminist. They have are on average lower intelligence and the feminist virus’ appeal is that it provides a playground for all sorts of social theory and stroking of their mental peen that lets them shout how ‘smart’ they are. It’s like a sociological rubic’s cube. Also they aren’t feminist because feminism doesn’t work outside a comfy little upper class bubble supported by proles.

        I also think that leftism is a religion that soothes some of the harsh realities to people that are weak. Women and intellectual effeminate men tend to be weak. They need somebody be it government or other men to act as their enforcers. That can’t stand that man is a selfish cruel being that has a biological destiny for the strong to lord over the helpless and they desperately want to this not be true because if they acknowledged this, then they would have to admit to their egos that they are indeed biological inferior and weak. Since they threw out God a long time back, they need a unifying theory that man can indeed be saved and that they are good and that they just need X to happen where we can all live in a wonderful fairy tale world. They need some type of comfort that the world doesn’t actually work the way it does.

        Like


      • “I also think that leftism is a religion that soothes some of the harsh realities to people that are weak.”

        Bingo! It removes judgment from the equation. There is no good or bad. Everything is right, according to what makes you feel good. That’s why liberals worship at the altar of “feel good.” Everything goes; no limits of right or wrong. When people listen only to their feelings, and can’t control their desires, it renders them weak. Liberals are truly weak people. And they are also very discontented. They keep looking for something new to sooth those weaknesses. Nothing seems to be the right panacea for their troubles since they were lying to themselves from the beginning.

        “Since they threw out God a long time back”

        Of course, they threw Him out. He’s too judgmental. He is too confining with his right and wrong instructions. He isn’t fun enough. They obey only their feelings; not God.

        “They need somebody be it government or other men to act as their enforcers.”

        Women have a hard time making decisions. That’s why they always ask the opinion of a zillion girlfriends before they decide. Some women won’t buy a new outfit without taking a girlfriend to help them decide. In contrast, the woman that has her man deciding for her, fares better, and always looks far better dressed. Unfortunately, most women like following the consensus of other women. They can’t think for themselves, which is why most of them are feminists.

        In that spirit, women replaced God and men with the government. It’s why they’re strong supporters of federal benefits and the theory of a protected class and group rights, as opposed to individual rights.

        Like


      • What do you talk about? You talk about them.

        High school dropout or PhD, women are unnaturally fascinated with themselves.

        Like


      • Bingo. I talk about myself with women. It’s amongst my favorite topics.

        Like


      • on August 19, 2013 at 10:04 pm Imperial Leather

        IOW happily violate Rule #2 as per this article from CH

        Like


      • Yes, it’s a weakness and, like any weakness, it can be turned to your advantage in steering a social interaction with a woman.

        “Your” applies to you, whether you are a man or a woman. Leaving out the sexual part (or maybe leaving it in for butch lesbians) game is a set of techniques that work well when dealing with women.

        Some, but not all, of the techniques seem appropriate when dealing with men. The 3 rules CH is giving now seem appropriate for dealing with either men or women.

        Like


      • on August 19, 2013 at 6:02 pm Theodore Logan

        “In what way would my life be improved if I were a man?”

        At your present age, your sexual market place value would be going up instead of down.

        Like


      • That is true. But I’d have to work for every ounce of my SMV. I am only losing stuff I never had to earn.

        Like


      • But also stuff you cannot earn back. Women try to earn it back but all they can do is slow the decay.

        So FX, as you’ve said you should do, hurry up and settle while the settling is good! I suspect the reason some women wait much too long is that they cannot see the decay in its early stages. When it is obvious to them, a great deal has been lost.

        Like


      • feministx,

        Hey, your name ends with ‘x’ too..

        For that reason, it will be your privilege to…..

        Detox my Buttox…..

        Like


      • That’s why I prefer hanging with somewhat ditzier women.

        Like


    • I guess women into politics like Catherine the great from Russia are a minority. She was really concerned about culture too, she liked to talk with Voltaire.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_the_Great

      Like


      • Catherine II was a gay man in a woman’s body.

        Like


      • You can’t compare the era of Catherine the Great and today. Back then, women weren’t educated. Women knew only about keeping a home (cooking and birthing children). They didn’t usually entertain any thoughts of art, culture, or music. Catherine the Great‘s high position called for her to be well-versed in such matters. Voltaire was very influential back then. He was what we would call today a political pundit. She needed his analysis on the hot topics of her day. Back then, it wasn’t the domain of most women though. It still isn’t. I find most women’s analysis is worth shit. Once in a while though, there is a woman that assesses things accurately, but it’s not the norm.

        Anyway, between our pop culture and Culture, what is more fun? Pop culture. What can be more fun than discussing makeup, clothes, celebrities, etc…. as empty as it is?

        What’s more fun, discussing hot stiletto shoes, or the Republicans 2016 candidates? Hands down, stiletto shoes!

        And, besides, it all boils down to sex in the end. Makeup, stiletto shoes, etc… translate into hooking a hot man. How she looks, not her high intelligence, hooks that man she wants. Every woman knows that, except ugly lesbians.

        So, why bash women for being themselves and knowing what’s right for them?

        Like


    • No, you can talk about whatever the fuck you want — just be exciting. Focus on how the subject or topic makes you feel, rather than the nuts and bolts of what makes it work.

      Logical thinking pays great bills, but leave it at home when you go to the bar or club. Emotions are fun, logic is work. Girls just want to have fun.

      Like


      • “No, you can talk about whatever the fuck you want — just be exciting.”

        This. I talk about all sorts of shit that I KNOW the girl knows nothing about or had zero interest in…but she starts to become interested in it BECAUSE I’m so interested in it and excited to share it with her and teach her about it.

        But like Scray says, I’m focused more on the emotional side of it than the technical side. Women want to experience a broad range of emotions, and they can do that through conversation and imagination.

        So this is a logical way of explaining your love of WoW, that a woman who doesn’t play won’t relate to:

        “I play World of Warcraft. I’m a lvl 23 Cleric and I have 30 different spells I can use. When we go on raids, I hang back and heal my group and make sure everyone’s character stays alive so we can beat the boss.”

        VS being told in an emotional exciting way that’s more likely to captivate a girl that you’re flirting with:

        “I LOVE World of Warcraft…I’ve been playing for a while and my character in it is this badass Cleric now…everyone thinks Clerics suck because in a fight, they have to just hang out in the background and heal everyone who’s doing the actual fighting, but I love it cause you know that the whole time, everyone’s survival is in your hands and if you slip up once, it could turn the tide entirely. It’s like an adrenalin rush to micro-manage everyone’s health and make sure I’m always paying attention to the entire battle, and on top of that, I have to be watching my own ass and make sure *I* don’t get jumped by trolls or we’re *ALL* fucked…it’s that challenge, you know? Of pushing your brain to its limit as you juggle a dozen little things at once and have to make decisions on the fly that could either help my group win or completely obliterate us. It was such a rush when we finally killed big boss dragon, half of us were on the verge of death and everyone was shouting “YaReally!! Heal me!!” and I had to decide “I can only heal one person right now…this person has lower health, but this other person has stronger attacks and could end this sooner”, so I had to essentially choose who to sacrifice for the greater good of our team as a whole…it was so intense, this is why so many nerds are addicted to that shit lol”

        Remember, she WANTS to think that the things you’re into are cool, because she doesn’t want to fuck a lame guy, she wants to fuck a guy she thinks is cool, so her brain is already hoping when you talk about shit she has no interest in, that you can make it interesting for her so she can be a part of it and brag about you to her friends.

        Also this works for groups etc. it’s just learning to tell stories in an emotionally engaging way.

        Try going out for a month and specifically only talking about boring subjects with the girls you approach. Tell them about a videogame or paying your taxes or your last grocery shopping trip etc…learn to be able to tell boring shit like that in an engaging way and you’ll be unstoppable when you’re actually telling REAL interesting stories lol

        But this article is right, if a thread is cut off, don’t go back to it unless someone asks you to. At the same time tho, if you learn to tell stories in an engaging emotional captivating way, you’ll find you don’t get cut off much, if ever, and when you do people will be quick to go “okay so what happened next??” and want to go back to your thread themselves ASAP.

        If you’ve met a lot of people then you’ve probably met that guy who when he talks, the group listens, even if he’s just telling mundane stories, everyone is attentive and feels included and wants him to keep going and doesn’t want to interrupt…that guy is usually a good story-teller and that ability gives him high value. The low value boring guy gets cut off even if he’s telling a story about his trip to a foreign country where he got mistaken for a drug lord and jailed. Lol

        Like


      • woah, damn. that was good!

        Like


      • So what your saying is, it’s important the way you package the message and sell it’s perception. Content doesn’t matter as much. Looks like Scary was saying the same thing just above.

        On daygaming I think I remembered a few comments to not to touch a woman on approach. Is there a reason for this? Something I been thinking of recently to just see what kind of reaction I might get if I just try it.

        Like


      • I’ve never heard that before. I do that all the time.

        Like


      • Well, there are two issues here. One is the issue of approaching a topic from a logical perspective. The second is incuriosity. Women are far more incurious about the world at large than men are. A topic like cosmology involves both curiosity and logical thinking, hence it attracts 100 times as many men than women.

        I agree that the topic (chosen by curiosity or lack thereof) is less important than the way of discussing it (the process of logic or the lack thereof) when speaking to women. You can talk about cosmology to a woman if you make it fun and easy, it is true. But at least for me, it is inherently difficult to discuss an intellectual topic without relying heavily on logic.

        I could be wrong, but I imagine that women aren’t that put off by a guy displaying situational logic in a conversation. As in, if you talk about how you got a great deal on your apartment by doing something clever with the rules, I don’t think that would be offputting to women. It wouldn’t be attractive either (like a funny story would be attractive), but it wouldn’t be alienating.

        Like


      • Once again, you nailed it, scary. This is exactly how we feel. Male-female interaction is not a college course in political science or economics. Fun frivolous conversation is what we want. Save that serious stuff for the right context.

        Like


      • Ya nailed it; instead of being a walking computer, draw people into your world. And CH is correct to put this into the GENERAL SOCIAL SKILL category — because, -surprise!- people in general would rather hear a fun, emotional story than a logical one too.

        Think about Carl Sagan or Neil Degrasse Tyson — those dudes are talking about astrophysics and the mysteries of the universe. But people love them for it, because when they talk about it, you can feel how passionate they are about it. They think it’s the coolest, awesomest thing ever, and at the very least you go, ‘huh….maybe it is pretty cool.’

        Listen to NDT talk about the universe as he understands it:


        It’s fucking awesome. And as proof, someone went back just so they could put music to that little snippet.

        Like


    • Women can discuss topics other than themselves. We just tend to prefer more practical or smaller, personal topics. Go look on youtube, at all the how to videos women put up. It is a different way of looking at the world, but not necessarily inferior.

      Like


  13. on August 19, 2013 at 2:37 pm RappaccinisDaughter

    “So what happens when the unstoppable force of male logic meets the immovable object of female self-love? You get what we in the seduction business call a stubborn refusal to let an orphaned conversation thread die out when it isn’t being received well by female company.”

    The stubborn refusal to let an orphaned conversation thread die can euthanize far more than a male/female interaction. It’s one of the most distinctive hallmarks of the Bore, and it pretty much applies to everyone, regardless of the sex of the speaker or listeners. I postulate that it’s a phenomenon not caused by a dichotomy between logic and emotion; that, rather that it’s a symptom of a society that is swiftly losing the fine art of conversation.

    You can be logical without being a bore. You can be a “know-it-all” without being a bore. Hell, you can be a pretentious prick without being a bore.

    Like


    • on August 19, 2013 at 3:17 pm FuriousFerret

      “It’s one of the most distinctive hallmarks of the Bore, and it pretty much applies to everyone, regardless of the sex of the speaker or listeners”

      Except women can get away with it if they are hot whereas it pretty much a deal breaker if you’re a guy.

      See a pattern here?

      Success for women = Be Hot. That’s pretty much it. There’s no me too. And yes, you have to not be a total bitch if you want a man with options to stick around, but as for being an orator that rivals Cicero, did I mention ‘Be Hot’?

      Like


      • on August 19, 2013 at 3:38 pm RappaccinisDaughter

        “Success for women = Be Hot. That’s pretty much it.”

        For a certain value of success, sure. I’m not disputing your claim that being attractive will get a woman quite a long way—I’ve seen it too many times to do so. I am, however, positing that even a gorgeous woman will wind up becoming an object of fun behind her back if she’s a bore. Being a bore is social death in a way that very little else is.

        Like


      • Do you think women have it easier in not being bores? Like, being naturally interested in more social topics as opposed to boring topics of logic, engineering, etc. ?

        What do women talk about anyway?

        Like


      • “What do women talk about anyway?”

        Fun things like fashion, beauty, celebrities, vacations, impending weddings, and men, men, men lol.

        However, a woman isn’t going to talk with you about these things, usually. Although, a man that takes an interest in how she dresses can be very arousing. He can teach her to dress for him, and she begins to dress for his approval. Women love to be guided by their man. There is an element of eroticism in it. I can’t explain why exactly, but it is. Maybe his attention is what makes it exciting.

        If you’ve just met, then you talk about light things. Throw in some serious stuff so you sound like an intelligent guy, but make it sound exciting (as scary says). Don’t sound too heavy, like you have the weight of the world on your shoulders. Girls want to have fun.

        Most importantly, don’t sound like “Checked Out” when talking to her. He says “Women are *incapable* or *unwilling* (one or the other) of considering any serious “big picture topic like the state of the world, the fact that whites are engaging in slow self genocide because white women won’t get married and have kids in their 20s, etc.” These are not the topics to discuss with a woman when you just met, or have just started dating her. She’ll just think you’re a big bore, if not troubled.

        Once you have been dating for a while, then you can introduce more serious topics into your conversations. Slowly, slowly, you gage each other’s positions and beliefs. Obviously, it’s best if your ideas and beliefs begin to merge. However, also consider that silence is sometimes best between a couple, and it doesn’t mean you’re not happy with each other. You can be most in love, while sharing some silence in the car and listening to music, for instance. I think the art of silence can be wonderful sometimes too. It shows a certain type of confidence on the part of the man. Feeling comfortable being quiet together (sometimes while each doing his and her own thing) is very important.

        Just bear in mind, a woman is never going to be like a man, and you wouldn’t want her to be anyway. You will always be attracted to her feminine essence no matter how frivolous it is, and you want IT to be less serious than yours. Most alpha males want their women to leave the important stuff to them. Men too, don’t want women that sound like they have the weight of the world on their shoulders. It’s not a woman’s role. A woman’s role is to trust her man. I wonder sometimes why some men here keep trashing women for being women. Would they want to date/marry a female image of themselves? Where is all this rage coming from? Sigh…….I can tell by these comments who’s an alpha, and who’s not.

        Like


      • “What do women talk about anyway?”

        Fun things like fashion, beauty, celebrities, vacations, impending weddings, and men, men, men lol.

        However, a woman isn’t going to talk with you about these things, usually. Although, a man that takes an interest in how she dresses can be very arousing. He can teach her to dress for him, and she begins to dress for his approval. Women love to be guided by their man. There is an element of eroticism in it. I can’t explain why exactly, but it is. Maybe his attention is what makes it exciting.

        If you’ve just met, then you talk about light things. Throw in some serious stuff so you sound like an intelligent guy, but make it sound exciting (as scary says). Don’t sound too heavy, like you have the weight of the world on your shoulders. Girls want to have fun.

        Most importantly, don’t sound like “Checked Out” when talking to her. He says “Women are *incapable* or *unwilling* (one or the other) of considering any serious “big picture topic like the state of the world, the fact that whites are engaging in slow self genocide because white women won’t get married and have kids in their 20s, etc.” These are not the topics to discuss with a woman when you just met, or have just started dating her. She’ll just think you’re a big bore, if not troubled.

        Once you have been dating for a while, then you can introduce more serious topics into your conversations. Slowly, slowly, you gage each other’s positions and beliefs. Obviously, it’s best if your ideas and beliefs begin to merge. However, also consider that silence is sometimes best between a couple, and it doesn’t mean you’re not happy with each other. You can be most in love, while sharing some silence in the car and listening to music, for instance. I think the art of silence can be wonderful sometimes too. It shows a certain type of confidence on the part of the man. Feeling comfortable being quiet together (sometimes while each doing his and her own thing) is very important.

        Just bear in mind, a woman is never going to be like a man, and you wouldn’t want her to be anyway. You will always be attracted to her feminine essence no matter how frivolous it is, and you want IT to be less serious than yours. Most alpha males want their women to leave the important stuff to them. Men too, don’t want women that sound like they have the weight of the world on their shoulders. It’s not a woman’s role. A woman’s role is to trust her man. I wonder sometimes why some men here keep trashing women for being women. Would they want to date/marry a female image of themselves? Where is all this rage coming from? Sigh…….I can tell by these comments who’s an alpha, and who’s not.

        Like


      • Lily, the things CH writes here are true. Are you referring to a real alpha like my grandfather or a fake modern fuzzy hat alpha? The point is it should be no man’s goal to be the latter. That’s the point. I’m truly checked out. See, I don’t care. I don’t *want* to impress a girl-just-wanna-have-fun. You just proved all the points I made to my ex GF and that are made here. You want to be free to fuck the man after only 5 hours of polite non-conversation so you can fuck your fantasy of how you fantasize him to be. As the relationship wears on and you discover he holds real man views, you get unhappy and eventually the relationship is over. My ex GF will fuck her next man, as she did me, by the 2nd date, after about 5 hours of being together. There is no way he’s any better htan me as far as his views on the stupidity of women; it’s just that she won’t know it yet. Just as she didn’t really know me when she let me fuck her for the first time. See?

        Like


      • Not all men think women are stupid. If you don’t think your negative attitude isn’t obvious to the women you date, think again. I’ve met guys like you and your contempt wafts off you like a smell. Quality women will avoid you and you will self-select for the skanks, who will just reinforce your contempt.

        Do you have any quality female friends at work or elsewhere you can spend some time with? They’re probably taken, but it doesn’t matter and it’s actually desirable. You need to be exposed to relationship-quality women to improve your attitude, because no sane woman is going to spend time with a man who has such disdain for her and women in general.

        Like


      • “Lily, the things CH writes here are true.”

        Haha! This is becoming a comedy. How many times have you said that? In every post, dear. Let’s move right along.
        .
        “you referring to a real alpha like my grandfather or a fake modern fuzzy hat alpha?”

        I don’t know your grandfather who’s immaterial here. The first thing distinguishing the alpha from the loser is he doesn’t fucking complain all the time. And most importantly, he doesn’t have so much disdain for women, as Amy just told you. His attitude is more about confidence, as if he says in his interactions with women I have everything under control.
        .
        “I don’t *want* to impress a girl-just-wanna-have-fun.”

        She wants to have fun too. The point is, those first dates are a little bit about impressing. First impressions, remember?

        Anyway, it’s not what I meant. I said that you shouldn’t want to talk about heavy things like the big picture and the state of the world, or men’s rights or family law when you just met a girl at a sports bar. Focus on fun things. Game does take a little bit of work and thought. You can’t just be yourself or be a complete idiot and charm women. I never thought PUA’s are stupid. On the contrary, they are smart and shrewd and understand human nature, in particular women. However, they didn’t start out knowing all this. They learned it through going out and applying different approaches to see what works.

        You probably don’t have the luxury of going out every night. But, at least twice a week, you need to go out and just have fun. Even if you’re unsuccessful meeting women, don’t lose faith. Eventually, you’ll get better at this, and the girls will be more interested in you. I don’t know why you need to check out every day. You’re not the only men who has issues with feminism. You think it’s a problem attacking only you? You must learn to work within the confines of today’s sexual climate. Hey, but you appear lazy. You want girls to fall into your lap without trying. This happens only as a fluke.
        .
        “You want to be free to fuck the man after only 5 hours of polite non-conversation so you can fuck your fantasy of how you fantasize him to be. As the relationship wears on and you discover he holds real man views, you get unhappy and eventually the relationship is over.”

        LOL! What? Did I say any of this, or even implied it? As usual, you hear what you want.

        I am constantly pushing chastity for women here. I never approve of being too easy and sleeping with a man too early. I always say a girl should wait and see if she and the man are compatible and right for each other before she invests her body. Some PUAs attacked me for my stance and insisted that a girl needs to give it up on the first date or they’ll move on. To me, these men are not relationship viable so they can move on. In fact, the faster the better. This is how a girl knows who has potential and who doesn’t, without wasting her precious time on useless men.

        As far as having real man views, bear in mind that most women don’t understand those views. Hell, most men don’t understand those views either, unless they were raised in a traditional family where the father ruled the roost. You have to be patient and insistent, cajoling women slowly into having the same views as you. It’s work, but you have to be a father and a teacher to the right woman. One accurate sign of which woman is easier to coax is how fast she sleeps with you. A woman that waits has more traditional values. So, start with that. Be old-fashioned. If she sleeps with you too fast, leave, unless she’s really hot. Except, I doubt she’ll be hot. Hot women aren’t easy. Leave her wondering why you don’t want to see her again after having such “good sex.” Watch her run after you like crazy. As I said before, time to start dating better quality women. You must have dated average-looking whores. I know South FL is full of those types of women. You must look for hotter girls with some self-respect.

        Like


      • CO, if you really were indifferent, why waste time writing these seething rants about it?

        You should look at this in a different way. Instead of looking at it as ‘frivolous’ or whatever, look at it as a type of protection. Senses of humor — and yes, religion too — evolved as a means of crowd control. If everyone is having fun, few people are getting hurt.

        You can talk with a girl about anything, but you always have to manage her emotions.

        Lighten up, mang.

        Like


      • Not all men think women are stupid.

        I’m biased towards believing women are stupid, but I think it’s a useful bias. I’d rather assume a woman is stupid and be pleasantly surprised than assume she’s not and be disappointed. This depends a great deal on context though – mainly a context in which I have little else to go on. I don’t assume a female doctor or manager is “stupid” if I meet her in those contexts.

        What I find most annoying about female stupidity is the refusal to take a bit of time to learn the “boring details” in contexts where doing so would spare them a ton of confusion and frustration. Men do this too of course, but I’ve had a much easier time pointing out to men how they’d benefit from taking the time to learn the details than I have with women. With women I don’t even bother pointing it out unless I can see a fun way to do so. (It gets a laugh out of them, but I doubt they change their ways.)

        Like


      • on August 20, 2013 at 11:31 am RappaccinisDaughter

        I just had dinner with a few women friends. These were the topics of the conversation before the entrees were served, in order:

        1. How everyone is doing, generally
        2. The last time we all traveled
        3. I tell an awful TSA story
        4. Someone else tells her awful TSA story
        5. Someone else brings up an awful news item about the TSA
        6. Someone makes a joke about getting felt up by the TSA, and how it’s a great way to get a date
        7. Subject changes to how air travel has degenerated in all ways, and how everybody used to dress up to fly
        8. I say airports now look like “People of Wal-Mart.”
        9. A phone gets whipped out and some choice POWM pics get passed around. We laugh until somebody snorts.
        10. Waiter delivers entrees mid-snort. We then begin to discuss times we have said just the wrong thing, just as a silence fell on the room.
        11. First poop joke of the night.

        Like


      • Sounds like older women, or just more pessimistic about life, not that I think the TSA shouldn’t be trashed, but all night? lol

        Most of this conversation would have bored me to death. It’s not my example of fun dinner – good-laughs with good-friends, and stimulating conversation. I would have been the first one to leave this blessed gathering.

        I must agree that women are not good conversation when it comes to discussing serious matters, unless they don’t have liberal values (which is unusual). You’d probably be good conversation, but you’re one of the rare ones. My best stimulating conversations are with men. Of course, there are men that are completely illogical too. I can’t deal with flaming liberal types in either gender.

        Like


      • Wow you remembered all that! A man would say “there was a bunch of stuff about TSA” and not remember more than that.

        I hypothesize that if a man can do woman-conversation half as well as the average woman at your table, he’ll never be at a loss for social conversation with women. Especially since in that setting the woman will expect to do most of the talking. (My impression of woman conversation is that it includes the important DHV element since women are at least somewhat competitive.)

        I have a little experience with this and have found it helpful at parties and indeed, I have a very easy time conversing with women this way as long as I want. (Except for my wife that is. Things are more hostile with my wife.)

        And then he can add his own stuff in, like things that violate the girl’s comfort zone, that would just sound weird coming from another woman (at least I would think so, although feministx seemed to say that isn’t true), but the man has the heterosexual “standing” to do it.

        Like


      • on August 20, 2013 at 1:41 pm RappaccinisDaughter

        Nah, that was just before the entrees. Maybe 20, 25 minutes. The TSA stuff took up all of 6 or 7 minutes. As far as older, that depends on your definition of “older.” If we’re doing the manosphere definition, which is anything past the age of consent, then yes, we’re a bunch of crones. As far as pessimistic about life…well, all I can say is, no matter how cynical I try to be, I just can’t keep up.

        Like


      • “As far as older, that depends on your definition of “older.” If we’re doing the manosphere definition, which is anything past the age of consent, then yes, we’re a bunch of crones.”

        LOL! Yeah! Why the age of consent, though? Try the age of 14 for some here.
        Hahaha! This place is such a riot.

        Like


      • A woman doesn’t need to be funny or interesting to achieve terrific social success. That’s why so few are.

        A man has to be.

        Like


      • Actually, I’d say it’s worse for a boring, hot woman than a man. There’s really not a term, is there, for the male equivalent of “bimbo”? Maybe “boy-toy” but I think that’s parallel to “trophy wife”. But a “bimbo” is a woman who has one attribute, and women are not kind to other women in that situation. (Men being men, their disapproval is entirely situational.) And women are the gatekeepers to the social network.

        Like


      • “Success for women = Be Hot. That’s pretty much it.”

        Yes …. up to a point.

        You should add, be feminine and don’t be a cunt because looks will only get you so far.

        Like


    • The German word “totlangweilig” comes to mind… so long-winded as to induce death in the listener.

      Like


    • Totally agree.

      Emily Post game, FTW.

      Like


    • on August 19, 2013 at 4:47 pm Imperial Leather

      you’ve proved yourself………Enough

      Like


    • Conversation, really, is just the gift of attention. It’s a party favor. It’s prized because a good conversationalist is confident enough not to drone on about things he or she, and only he or she, cares about. The conversationalist knows the second the woman is restless and boom, he asks her something else about her or her context that he thinks she might be interested in. So right away a woman will know if the guy has social skills, the ability to observe and read body language, and any sort of action going on upstairs.

      Truthfully, I think it’s a lot easier for men to talk to women, than vice versa, because women are more inclined to talk about themselves and their interests. A guy with his shit together is not going to be so forthcoming.

      Also, it helps if you like women. Clooney is aloof and skeptical, selfish and impetuous. And every woman he meets knows that he likes women. All Casanovas like women. Read _Swoon_.

      Again, though, it has to be an arena where the woman knows enough to appreciate the party favor that is conversational attention. Like Lake Como.

      Like


      • “a good conversationalist is confident enough not to drone on about things he or she, and only he or she, cares about.”

        This is very true. This is why you have to be very careful when you first meet someone. That first conversation gives the tone for that relationship. Otherwise, you risk a girl placing you in her beta orbiter stack.

        “Clooney is aloof and skeptical, selfish and impetuous. And every woman he meets knows that he likes women. All Casanovas like women. “

        I don’t think Clooney is as skillful as you think. Just because he had lots of girlfriends, many think he’s an alpha. I am willing to wager he’s not an alpha at all. Most liberals men aren’t alpha, and he’s a flaming liberal. Women are blinded by his fame, more than he is the alpha that you think. That’s how he gets his women.

        Ahhhh……..Lake Como. It’s one of the most beautiful places on earth.

        Like


  14. This might be a moment to remember that Emily Post understood something about Game. She noted that when you make conversation, it’s rude not to make your conversation partner the center of your comments; the way to get invited back is to just talk about whatever the focus of your attention wants to talk about. It’s gracious, it’s trivial to accomplish, women (and their self-love) prefer it. And it transfers to any environment, social or professional. Besides, women know in the first five seconds if they like you, and you can only fuck it up by talking too much.

    A wrinkle:

    What makes sociopaths so effective, according to this self-diagnosed pseudonymous example (link below), is that she stalks her prey with pre-fab ‘colorful anecdotes’ that she fluently levers into the conversations with her victims, reinforcing the victims’ frame. That may be true, or, she may just have big ta-ta’s, high law professor status, and she’s overrating her storytelling skills.

    http://ww3.economist.com/blogs/prospero/2013/08/self-help?spc=scode&spv=xm&ah=9d7f7ab945510a56fa6d37c30b6f1709

    http://abovethelaw.com/2013/05/sources-and-dr-phil-offer-insights-author-of-confessions-of-a-sociopath-who-might-be-this-law-professor/

    I’d just go with Emily Post. Of course, shit-testing banshees with visible thongs haven’t read Emily Post, and Emily Post didn’t condescend to spending time with shit-testing banshees with visible thongs. (And neither do I.) So YMMV.

    Like


    • Interesting; that describes quite a few professors I’ve had. I’d guess the sociopath’s anecdotes are probably not too engaging; they focus on the story and the storyteller instead of bringing the other person into the conversation. That can work well at cocktail parties and networking events, where interactions are brief and superficial, but it doesn’t always translate well into dating and relationships. (It’s good for pickups, though).

      [CH: Most things that are good for pick-ups are good for dating and LTRs as well.]

      Like


      • [CH: Most things that are good for pick-ups are good for dating and LTRs as well.]

        I agree, but not this one. Would you want to be in a relationship with the selfish, soulless sociopath described in BV’s article? Empathy and thoughtfulness are desirable feminine traits in a LTR. As for men, sociopaths are very charming and sociable in the beginning (superficial contact) but long-term? That’s a lonely life for a woman. Except if she’s a sociopath too, of course.

        Like


      • @Amy.

        I use the term ‘sociopath’ in its technical sense. Sociopaths do not have relationships. Relationships or dating are only of utility to the sociopath if he/she decides it is the most efficient avenue toward a goal. I agree with CH that the sociopathic personality will do the same thing later, as on first blush. They’re like machines. They are not adaptable. (Relationships require adaptation over time.)

        One of this professors male students said about her:

        “I couldn’t tell if she wanted to eat me or fuck me.”

        And that’s because there’s no difference, really, to the sociopathic personality. She claims, incidentally, to fantasize about murdering people, so this law student appears to have underestimated her, or gotten off easy. I doubt he will ever forget her.

        Sociopathic personalities fundamentally lack any capacity for empathy and view other people as objects to be moved around the chessboard. It is a strategic craft: they are not attention whores per se seeking validation (as do narcissists). Generally the professionals are able to maintain a frame or mask for 6-9 months. (This is the easiest way to identify them.) They either get what they want by then and move on, or they don’t get what they want and move on. But they are always moving on. Time exposes them. (Ted Bundy worked quicker.)

        Anyway, back to the thread, I was just thinking about how a high-functioning sociopath would capture a woman’s attention in the first meeting. I think it’s to flatter the target by being interested in whatever she cares about (the Emily Post part) while deploying from his jukebox of pithy, self-elevating anecdotes that violate the target’s comfort level, leading to fascination.

        Like


  15. This rule of savviness (and all three) is the advice aspergy men should tell their sons…for world domination of old, or is it alt-right world domination of new? Brains beats brawn, and certainly stupidity, in the long run. There is a logical pillar to keep front and center her. People who respond to seduction/charm rather than logic are Inferior. In the case of letting go of ‘the voice’ of logical rectitude when it is on shaky social ground (a context not to be overlooked), the cocky-funny voice of Cynicism with a captial ‘C’ is your best friend. The most interesting man in the world must be a closet cynic to the masses. Stay cocky, my friends.

    Like


  16. If people change the subject when you are talking, you have already talked about the subject for too long —- or you lack value.

    What usually happens is that a man captures lightning in a bottle by saying — accidentally — something that is legitimately funny or witty or maybe even insightful. This builds and demonstrates concrete value. He knows, however, that it was a fluke. So he just clings on to it….and his clinging lets everyone know that it was just a fluke.

    Rule 3 should be funny. If you are cocky with nothing to back it up, you will fail. There. I said it. More accurately, you will get an audience — fast — but you will bomb once they put you up on stage. You can have other virtues backing you beyond being funny, though. You can be intense, edgy, ripped, good-looking, rich, etc. etc.

    Like


    • I mean shit, you can be the #1 Counter-strike or Starcraft 2 player — that could work, if you could somehow communicate that awesome skill lol. As long as something backs up your cocky attitude.

      Like


  17. on August 19, 2013 at 3:33 pm Col Nicholson

    O/T but surely of interest to this crowd & apologies if it’s already been noted but “Beta Male [who] Asks Girls for Reasons Why They Rejected Him” has a porn past:

    http://trashlounge.co.uk/8954/well-thats-embarrassing-project-x-star-jonathan-daniel-brown-has-secret-porno-past/

    Trigger warnng!

    Like


  18. Too bad…I love logic too much.

    Like


    • That’s amazing. A guy would actually sign up to skip even trying marriage and go straight to the status of a divorced man from an old woman with shared custody and child support. If the IVF works by some miracle, that is.

      Is more complicated better, or something? I just don’t see why a guy would agree with it. Although it does avoid the risk of getting even less custody if you marry the woman, have a kid with her, then divorce. Are we to the point where that risk reduction is the most important thing?

      Like


      • I’m sure the vast majority of the men on that site are gay, the good looking heterosexual in the article notwithstanding. No sane straight guy would sign up for this, unless a lot of money is changing hands. Even then it’s a huge risk.

        That woman is obscenely selfish to feel entitled to have a baby at 42 as a single mother. There are so many kids languishing in the foster care system who need mothers and homes. But it’s not really about a love for children for her. No, she just needs to have her status baby.

        Like


  19. From Tyler’s 25 point checklist from waaay back (http://www.rsdnation.com/node/60062):

    “14) GOING BACK TO A PRIOR THREAD THAT WAS INTERUPTED AT THE FIRST CHANCE/BREAK-IN-CONVO THAT YOU GET = trying too hard to impress them.. (ie: when a thread gets broken off in the convo, and you go back to it FIRST chance you get when the other topic ends, you look like you were WAITING to get back to it.. WHY are you so eager to get back on it, unless you don’t feel comfortable around the person and you need to qualify yourself to them?) WAIT until THEY say “what was that you were saying before?”, and THEN go back to it.. if it doesn’t happen, DROP IT even if it was good.”

    “17) REPLYING WITH OVERLY THOUGHT-OUT OF LOGICAL ANSWERS OR WITH OVERLY CLEAR/FORMAL PRONUNCIATION = being concerned that you won’t be accepted unless you convince really well (eg. HB: why did you ask me that… RIGHT = I’m talking. (sit and stare) WRONG = because I really need to know since I’ve been thinking about this for a while.. the FIRST one conveys that you won’t qualify yourself to her)”

    This one (and a few more in his list. Really, go read it if you haven’t before) is related to the last social savvy rule article about not getting defensive (aka qualifying yourself):

    “21) OVERCOMPENSATING FAILURE OR SHORTCOMINGS = fear of being judged.. if you do poorly on a presentation, or on a sarge in front of a wingman, or on a test, DO NOT SAY DUMB SHIT LIKE “I’m really tired”. EVEN IF you’re ACTUALLY really tired, the mere act of saying “I’m tired” comes off as QUALIFYING yourself to the person. Just don’t bring it up. If you have shitty clothes on, don’t say “I have nicer clothes at home.” Just don’t bring it up. If you meet a girl when you’re dressed bad, don’t say “I have the coolest club clothes at home” Just don’t bring it up.”

    Like


    • Oh lordy, you linked RSD on twitter. My haters are going to have a conspiracy-gasm with that one lol. They are convinced the Chateau has been bought by Tyler, who is obviously me, and we are trying to destroy the Manosphere so that everyone has to buy expensive RSD DVDs lol

      Also to anyone who likes Tyler’s (i mean my) teaching style, go pirate Foundations and The Blueprint. They’re both awesome shit and he (I mean I) doesn’t care that everyone pirates them lol

      Like


      • Nice try, Roosh but you can’t throw us off the scent by pretending to be Tyler.

        Like


      • No!!! Don’t you see? It’s POOK! He’s returned from the depths of time.

        Like


      • on August 19, 2013 at 6:50 pm Lucky White Male

        Roosh has Left the Manosphere.

        He’s gone to the Next Level Up.com

        Or is it Nexxt Level Up.com

        Or, it could be Nexxxt Level Up. Com

        Get it – there are three “XXX”

        Look – I am not questioning those guys business acumen. Let alone IQ.

        You are a young man building your career around a website – you WILL have a good website name.

        Because even a ” young urban male ” as Roosh diplomatically puts it KNOWS that – people need to be able to find your website, which means they need to remember your website in their mind, which means you must have a good name.

        He’s in good hands with those guys. One of them is a guy actually named “Danger.”

        In any event, the Hairy One will not be returning. He has Left.

        Like


    • Goddamn, you beat me to the punch.

      I was just about to say. If you’re telling a story and it gets interrupted for whatever reason, don’t just pick up where you left off. Get the group or someone in it to ask you to continue.

      If they do, then they obviously are interested. If they do not, then you lost interest to whatever just happened or you never had their interest to begin with. I read that back in November and I felt stupid for not knowing it all along.

      Can be applied anywhere and is such a good maxim.

      Like


  20. “but which men — especially autist spectrum men — have to work at to achieve the same level of instinctive grasp.”

    What is with the Chateau’s antagonism towards autistic men? They can’t help their social ineptitude. Why not direct your targets on those who can?

    Like


    • on August 19, 2013 at 7:45 pm suppressedtruthsociety

      Antagonism? Seriously? I can’t think of any reading material that could possibly improve a (mildly) autistic man’s life more than this blog.

      Like


      • Admittedly, this post is not that inflammatory. However, CH frequently mocks autistic guys and dismisses them as “spergs” and “toothpick counters.” As an aspie dude who is trying hard to master the game, I find this a tad bit discouraging.

        [CH: Everyone’s a little bit spergy.]

        Like


      • ergo, guys with clinically diagnosed autism disorders deserve to be ridiculed?

        Like


      • on August 19, 2013 at 9:15 pm suppressedtruthsociety

        I wouldn’t take it personally. This blog pokes fun at everyone. Aside from that, given the nature of this material and the writing style, I’m betting the ranch it attracts a disproportionate amount of highly intelligent men with social disorders.

        Like


      • I am somewhere on the spectrum myself, although when I was growing up nobody talked about it and the subject never came up. But when I saw a list of autistic symptoms, I said “yes, that’s me basically, but I am able to cover it.” That covering was less successful when I was young and awkward, and it took me much time and energy to learn to cope.

        I think most, or practically all, people in technical professions would say the same if they thought about it. That’s the way we are. Maybe autism is just an overemphasis of some pretty typically masculine traits, likely also shared by those relatively few women who pursue technical work.

        I don’t think CH overdoes his allusions. He says them so that people can see themselves in his descriptions and thus improve.

        Like


      • If you have to ask, yes.

        Like


      • I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you are just recalling SS Rule #3 “don’t ask if you can avoid it”. Kbar should expect proper treatment, he doesn’t have to ask for it.

        Like


      • No, but the problem is you guys are terrible with women. There’s a lot of you out there, too.

        Like


      • on August 20, 2013 at 7:52 am Esoteric Mystic

        we may not be perfect, but one of us just might be the one who shows you the way.

        Like


      • on August 20, 2013 at 10:10 am Lucky White Male

        And You girls are just amazing with men.

        There’s a lot of you out there, too

        Like


      • on August 20, 2013 at 12:05 pm Hugh G. Rection

        Not deserve, but it just can’t be helped.

        Like


      • I’d say you have a problem if you cannot manage to maintain polite interactions, with aspies, with people with disabilities, yes even with females who do nothing to break your trust (which, granted. leaves out a lot of them.) Yes you are the one with the problem. You are expected to do this whether you like it or not.

        It will probably also make you more effective at game and many other things, but that’s just a side benefit.

        Like


      • on August 20, 2013 at 4:17 am Eliezer Ben-Yehuda

        >>> As an aspie dude

        Stuff White People Like, chapter 987. Pretending to have the latest/greatest, hippest, evolutionary weakness.

        Are you from the BayArea chapter, the BrooklynParkSlopeChapter, or AnnArbor chapter of United Hipsters of America?

        Like


      • No asshole, I’m from Dallas. And why would I pretend to have a disorder that makes it near impossible for me to get laid, build a career, make friends, and find general happiness in life? I didn’t ask for this bullshit label, psychologists (and my parents) have been hitting me with it since I was 8.

        Like


      • on August 20, 2013 at 2:41 pm RappaccinisDaughter

        OK, see that part where you called him an asshole and justified yourself? That’s getting defensive. Next time, try something like this instead:

        “What can I say? They won’t sell me my skinny jeans unless I stutter and refuse to make eye contact when I’m buying them. And you know how I love having those skinny jeans ride up in my crotch. Really gets me in touch with my feminine side.”

        Like


      • I don’t know Lily, that sort of game works on girls, but it may not work on a bully sort of guy. He’ll just add a “gay” label as if the comment were serious and just become more unpleasant.

        I’ve never found a way to deal with guys like this. I don’t deal with them.

        Like


      • Oops, the reply is to Rap’s Daughter. The email confused the quotes.

        Like


      • “OK, see that part where you called him an asshole and justified yourself? That’s getting defensive. Next time, try something like this instead:”

        I’m not trying to game him into sucking my cock. He was being a denialist asshat and I felt the need to set him straight.

        Like


      • on August 20, 2013 at 3:13 pm RappaccinisDaughter

        I know you aren’t trying to get an extra-grizzly blowie off the guy. But refusing to get defensive when guys try to tool you will elevate your social status with men, too.

        Like


      • “But refusing to get defensive when guys try to tool you will elevate your social status with men, too.”

        Status means little to me as an anonymous commenter on an obscure blog. I am simply bewildered by the fact that (presumably educated) people can deny the existence of autism disorders in the 21st century. Then again, I live next door to a family of vocal young earthers.

        Like


      • on August 20, 2013 at 3:42 pm RappaccinisDaughter

        Well, you said you were having trouble with this stuff. Why not start practicing now?

        Like


      • “Well, you said you were having trouble with this stuff. Why not start practicing now?”

        I’ll admit, your advice is pretty sound for most situations (though David’s rebuttal also makes sense). I didn’t mean to drag this thing out. Considering that CH is the kind of place that gleefully examines the “swollen porcine holes” of obese people, I should have never expected fair treatment.

        Like


  21. you are either charming, or tedious

    at any given moment

    torch the tedium. It’s a social killer.

    Like


  22. Solving a Rubik’s cube is easier than trying to go through the minefield that is male-female communication.

    I’d keep it simple…grunts, sign languge, body language, sex, and smoke signals. I’d use my tongue for eating purposes only.

    Like


  23. OT.


    A British model and mom is ditching her life of posing in lingerie for one of modesty and obedience as a Muslim wife, said U.K. reports on Monday.

    “Meeting Mohammed has made me really look at my life,” Carley Watts, a model who regularly bares almost all for publications such as Elite Online Magazine, told the Sun about her lifeguard boyfriend, Mohammad Salah. She added, “My friends think I’m mad and that this is just a phase.”

    The two met while Watts was vacationing in Salah’s native Tunisia in April, when, Watts explained, every man flirted with her except for Salah.

    ARTICLE: http://shine.yahoo.com/healthy-living/why-a-former-model-is-covering-up-for-love-182140949.html

    Dude seems kind of alpha-ish, but marrying a post-carousel single mother after a few month’s dating? Hmmmm…

    Like


    • Same story, another article with more pics.

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2397038/Glamour-model-cover-convert-Islam-falling-Tunisian-lifeguard.html

      The Alpha or not debate is tough on this one.

      -He obviously has game based on how he initially interacted with her (he was the only guy who didn’t flirt with her, let the overeager chumps blow themselves out)
      -He’s a lifeguard, so prob doesn’t have a ton of money (or does, and lifeguards to have contact with women)
      -Pulls a 24 year old lingerie model.
      -Convinces to her convert to Islam.
      -Convinces her to quit modelling, and that her body is for his eyes only.
      -Looks Alpha.

      But…
      -She’s a single mom.
      -Past peak nubility, (although still young).
      -Sounds like she actively rides the carousel
      -Looks older/rougher than 24.
      -Is a good-time party-girl.
      -Asked for her hand in marriage within months of dating.

      I want to say, Alpha Thinking With His Other Head, Making A Dumb Mistake.

      Like


      • Or, I guess I could say, he is a Natural with Beta Tendencies.

        Such a breed, while rare, can frequently be spotted in the wild.

        In my opinion, this N-BT combination is one of the most lethal of all PUA phenotypes. Think Rob Lowe, Jefferson D’Arcy (Al Bundy’s neighbor), Brad Pitt, etc.)

        Guys who naturally attract women but have strong domestic leanings, and are drawn toward marriage. They have natural pre-selection, often have unconscious push-pull, yet are vulnerable to a woman’s desire for a relationship and committment.

        This is the perfect titration of PUA, as women see his edge, feel the tension his natural Alphaness exudes, yet are allowed in close enough to clean him up into the perfect boyfriend/husband… right before he gets all dirty again.

        Like


      • She looks about 30, but as a muslim tunisian, there are some ameliorating circumstances: he can divorce her easily or marry three better chicks if he wants to. Maybe he’ll get a UK passport, which has to be worth something even today.

        Like


      • Good point.

        Adding a white, 24 year old lingerie model to your harem is pretty damn Alpha.

        Add in the UK Passport for the lulz and, depending on the size of her bank account, we might have found ourselves Tunisia’s very own Kevin Federline.

        Like


      • Maybe he’ll get a UK passport…

        Ding! We have a winrar.

        That said, the fact that he tells her how to act, what to wear, and even what to believe has got to get the gina tingling, especially for a whoreish single mother, clearly fast approaching The Wall at the ripe old age of twenty four – a worthless skank for any Western man with options. BTW, what’s the betting that her baby is brown?

        Nice tits though, and probably a better deal for him than having to fuck some fiftysomething fatty to gain the right to EU residence. And she’s timed her leap from the carousel about right; if she’d left it much longer, she might’ve had to settle for a sub-Saharan African.

        May they both live happily ever after (until the day she becomes a statistic, the stupid cunt).

        Like


      • That said, the fact that he tells her how to act, what to wear, and even what to believe has got to get the gina tingling,

        The main reason that’s possible is that she’s grown up never knowing anything else except 24/7 anti-white brainwashing. So it’s not surprising that a primitive ape animal muzzie POS seems sexy and exotic, something to impress her equally clueless friends with. We can pretend this sort of thing isn’t heartbreaking (“worthless skank” blah blah) but deep down we experience it as a loss.

        Like


      • …but deep down we experience it as a loss.

        I think you’re right about that, and about the anti-white brainwashing, of course.

        And it is a loss. By converting to islam, she’s no longer White, nor even British. She is of the Ummah, now. The Other. The Enemy.

        That’s all there is to it.

        Like


      • Agree with all of those points. I must say I have zero attraction to that woman. I am sure children she has would be quite stupid. I’m told that a woman’s intelligence, and a man’s looks, pass on mostly to the kids. So marry a stupid model, and you’ll get dumb kids who look like you.

        Whe also looks like a bit of a widebody. Maybe it’s just the photos.

        I sat next to a model on a plane flight once. She was, I think, a hand or foot model, but she was actually pretty hot looking overall, much better than the girl in those photos. She didn’t look used-up and jaded like the girl in the photos does.

        But my feeling of the energy coming from her was that she was a horse. It was the same peaceful simple feeling I would have if I were with a horse. (Maybe that’s why models are “clothes horses”?) That’s a fine feeling, I like horses, but to spend time with a woman like that, I really would not know what to do or say.

        Like


  24. If you’re a really logical person on a philosophical bent go read
    some George Bataille: All he talks about is the illogical, excess, and reversing
    “systems”. If you can apply that to game “conceptually” it might help some of those “heady” peeps.

    Like


  25. Nice to see Heariste going back to cover some of the fundamentals.

    Like


  26. More OT fun and games.

    “Why Are So Many Professional Millennial Women Unable To Find Dateable Men?”

    ARTICLE: http://www.forbes.com/sites/larissafaw/2012/12/05/why-are-so-many-professional-millennial-women-unable-to-find-dateable-men/

    BTW, there are a TON of red-pill comments. Shit’s going mainstream, in large part to sites like the Chateau.

    Protip to any women reading this:

    See the pic at the top of the article? Most Mr. Rights are never going to approach a 5-set girls night out like that. They’re doing it wrong.

    Like


    • One of the early comments to that article:

      “There’s nothing wrong with having standards, but this author is confusing class markers with class. And THAT is a sign of a low-class person who’s accumulated some upper-class markers. At the point a person considers herself to be “dating down” she’s just wasted everyone’s time.”

      Hell yes.

      Isn’t this Sex and the City in a nutshell?

      The hamster rationalises that she has the expensive brand name handbags; has the shoes, the nice perfume, some nice clothes, has done some travelling, therefore she DESERVES a high status man.
      One that will also impress her friends and meet THEIR approval.

      The fish is holding out for a better fisherman.
      It does not realise the fishermen are fishing elsewhere and for better fish AND they are planning on throwing the fish they catch back in.

      Like


    • From the comments section of that article:

      “There’s nothing wrong with having standards, but this author is confusing class markers with class. And THAT is a sign of a low-class person who’s accumulated some upper-class markers. At the point a person considers herself to be “dating down” she’s just wasted everyone’s time.”

      This describes the “Sex and the City” type women in a nutshell.

      The fish is looking for a better fisherman.
      What the fish does not realise is that the fishermen are fishing elsewhere, for different fish and most of the time they will throw what they caught back in and continue fishing.

      Like


  27. on August 19, 2013 at 9:08 pm Chateau Seinfeld

    Like


  28. It was interesting to note CH’s reference to the stand-up comedian. This highlights a key point that I’ve noticed: women are much more likely to capably receive and process logical arguments if they are packaged in an entertaining way and set off the women’s “herd” receptors.

    For example, I’ve shown some of Bill Burr’s stand-up routines to various females, and without exception, their general response is that he’s funny, witty and clever. Most of them will even concede that he’s telling the truth.

    Here’s the twisted part: When I’ve shown them his podcast – which promotes the same topics sans the microphone, humour, and audience – they’re completely turned off. Suddenly he’s a sexist, raving lunatic (in their eyes).

    There’s a big lesson in this: women can handle logic if it is repackaged in ways that appeal to their sense of value judgements and herd biology. A successful and entertaining comedian repackaging the truth in a lighthearted fashion, and an approving audience in rapturous laughter appeals to these female senses of value.

    The EXACT same logic, without the crowd approval, and without the humorous, slapstick repackaging – and suddenly, not only is there nil interest, there’s outright disdain.

    Like


    • Good insight.

      Like


    • Bill Barr comes across like a lunatic on his podcast.

      Like


    • Agree, that’s a great insight (and thanks for the reminder – haven’t caught this week’s podcast yet, always enjoy that).

      Bill Burr is a peculiar case, however. He spits some great Red Pill wisdom with regard to women and men and the way they’re treated, but he’s a straight-up SWPL Cathedral choirboy (or, ‘DWL’ in SBPDL parlance) in most other matters. The lovely Mia is brown sugar, he’s into his spectator sports way too much, and he even has a pitbull, for fuck’s sake.

      But he’s funny, soI guess I’ll let him off.

      Like


  29. I believe that being mad or upset at women’s illogical behaviour is a sign that one is still a beta/blue pill male, since alphas actually do enjoy engaging in illogical behaviour because they know how to overcome it and win women’s interest, whereas betas hold onto logic and end up losing.

    I find logic to be 1000x more valuable than emotions, and I loathe engaging in illogical behaviour which I think is purposeless and a waste of time, and I find hard to rewire this thinking process.

    I understand this illogical/emotional shit actually served a purpose to women in early human civilization, but I wonder if it still does in modern age? I mean, a well established male (good income and health) should be able to sucessfully mate and ensure offspring survival without the need of giving a wide range if emotions to his woman

    if one were to change women’s biology and remove their hamster, would beta behaviour still end up being an inferior choice to alpha behaviour when it comes to mating?

    Like


    • Like many men, I have a lot to offer in the logical side of things. But I’ve spent so much time earning a living from that, that the thrill has receded somewhat for me. Also, I find it tedious when a woman, say my wife, uses me as her logical crutch. Remember girls who would try to get homework help? Now that I have a son in that situation, I advise him not to give without getting. Be very sure that no such help is given, unless you have a good and considered reason. Generally, helping a girl is a very bad idea.

      As I’ve gotten older I have generally started rationing my logical input severely anyway. I am not going to give it away for free. One fun thing about talking to women is that it’s a different game. With the exception of talking to my wife, which runs hot and cold depending on her mood, it’s generally fun. But I am not about to give away logical analysis in that context. Nor would it do ME any good to do so. My communications are goal-oriented.

      So what I suggest for how to stop being logical with girls is … just stop. Don’t make your conversations with them a bit less logical. Make them completely illogical. Give no value. Instead, provide the emotional experience you want to have, using the techniques discussed here. And like learning any new thing, it’s better to start out overcorrecting. Don’t be timid about changing. Just start doing some things that will seem wild and crazy and usually not what would solve the girl’s problem. You’re not there to solve her problem. She’s in front of you, for you to have a fun experience.

      Like


  30. So I have a few issues I wish to discuss, I’m young, smart, good looking and charming, to women. Have a HB8 LTR GF. However, I am barely ever funny. I have my moments and I believe this affects my social life dramatically. In my town, I’m well-known or popular if you want to say so. I have a lot friends, yet I have this issue, it doesn’t seem like people (MALE & FEMALE) want to actually talk to me and I believe its because I’m not funny which makes me come across as boring, I barely talk about myself, always focus the conversation on the other people. It’s really fucking annoying because I enjoy talking to people yet people don’t want to talk to me. I’m not rude, unless I have to be. I want to improve myself so people want to come and talk to me and enjoy my company, I am naturally a quiet kid but It can’t be THAT much of a turnoff, any help?

    Like


    • Do you like comedy?

      That is, do you habitually watch stand up, sitcoms, funny movies, lulzy internet stuff? And would you rather watch something funny than, say, a dry documentary about llama farming in Antarctica?

      If not, begin doing so. Then begin referencing what you’ve seen/heard. You don’t have to plagiarise, better to lead in along the lines of, “That reminds me of something George Carlin once said…”

      We learn by imitation, so start imitating funny guys.

      If you don’t think you’re naturally funny (and definitely not ‘zany’) maybe start with a deadpan style, slipping in one-liners, catching your audience off guard because it may take a moment for them to realise you’re joking, especially if it’s out of character for you. That’ll have quite an impact, once the penny drops, and they won’t be able to stop themselves guffawing. Check out Stephen Wright.

      The ‘straight’, or ‘grumpy’, or ‘serious’ comedian is an established type, maybe that’s the sort of persona you could adopt. The contradiction in terms is funny all by itself, work with it.

      Something to consider anyway, hope it helps.

      Like


    • on August 21, 2013 at 5:20 am Imperial Leather

      It’s probably really fucking annoying for people that you want to talk to them all the time….always focus on them…..be funny…..have you considered that

      Like


      • thanks quasi, good comment. I definitely have my moments, and they do catch people off guard, which works well for me. I don’t really watch “funny” stuff, that could be a good point you’ve come too, maybe I’ll start watching some funny shit. fake it till you make it.

        That’s highly possible Imperial, but then if you are focusing on yourself, it would be even worse yeah?

        Like


  31. This article succinctly explains the contradiction around getting married in order to be married:

    http://puerarchy.com/2013/07/22/threatpoint-created-the-puerarchy/

    TLDR; women are attracted to dominant men (relative to her), marriage gives all the power in the relationship to the woman making her the dominant one, thus man becomes unattractive (atleast in the long-term) ending the marriage.

    Like


    • It blockquoted the wrong part;

      here it is

      “Inherent in red pill psychological theory is the understanding that women desire dominant men. The problem of threatpoint not only arises because it puts unilateral control in the hands of only one partner (with no fear of repercussion), but also because that it puts that control in the hands of the women in the relationship- the one who craves her man to be the dominant one.
      As I’ve mentioned above, and is common knowledge to the red pill crowd, hypergamy dictates that women will constantly fitness test their mate. This test controls to see how much push-back they get from their tests. Is her man docile and bends to her whim? Or is he strong and dominant, and refuses to fall for these tests?
      Threatpoint puts the control into the hands of the one fitness testing- making it close to impossible to pass these tests, lest it spark a divorce if she does not get what she wants.
      And if he fails fitness testing, he loses her attraction.
      Threatpoint doesn’t just make marriages easier to break, it forces marriages into breaking.”

      Like


    • on August 20, 2013 at 5:05 am gunslingergregi

      ill stay at this chicks house couple days let her give her all to please me then ask to borrow a grand well see if game can make loot he he he
      wish me luck

      Like


    • “TLDR; women are attracted to dominant men (relative to her), marriage gives all the power in the relationship to the woman making her the dominant one, thus man becomes unattractive (atleast in the long-term) ending the marriage.”

      Yep. A guy who gets married is literally saying “I’m going to willingly give up the thing that attracts you to me, AND enter a legal contract where you benefit immensely from losing attraction to me”.

      It’s the equivalent of a hot chick voluntarily signing a contract where you get a bunch of free money and pats on the back by society for dumping her if she gets fat, and then she willingly gets fat. It’s insane.

      Every guy contemplating marriage and/or long-term monogamy should read Blackdragon’s epic completely logical post on why it doesn’t work:

      http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?action=retrieve&grp=9&mn=1240554210553038

      Keep in mind that not promising monogamy doesn’t mean you have to be out trolling the bars at 40 for 18yo snatch every weekend…it just means that you have an understanding with your woman that you won’t hesitate to go sample some strange if she tries to use sex as a weapon or generally drops the ball in the relationship. You don’t have to bang a single other girl in 20 years of being with her…you just have to have the OPTION to.

      Relevant snippets from Blackdragon’s post:

      “once you promise monogamy to a woman, you give her the automatic power to:

      1. Completely remove sex from your life any time she disapproves of your behavior, as I already stated above. (You say something mean to her sister, so she doesn’t fuck you, and you can’t fuck anyone else, so sex has been removed from your life, at least temporarily. Time to go jerk off to porn).

      2. Ask you constantly the why you were with other women, and the nature of your relationship with other women you spend time with. As annoying and silly as this jealousy is, She HAS THE RIGHT to ask these questions because YOU promised her monogamy.

      3. Give you drama. Once you promise monogamy, she believes, often correctly, that she’s “got you” and she can give you all kinds of drama and you will STILL STAY with her (and, let me say again, she’s usually RIGHT about this). Yes, can exhibit alpha-like behaviors when dealing with this drama, but she’s is still in a position to give it to you. And she will again and again.”

      “There is literally nothing a confident man can get from marriage he cannot get by being unmarried. Literally nothing. This includes:

      Wedding rings. A wedding. Changing her last name. Living together. Referring to each other as “husband” and “wife”. Children (more on this below). Shared medical insurance (via domestic partnership and various other legal means). Life insurance. Joint ownership of assets.…and everything else.

      Try to think of anything a confident man can ONLY receive if he’s legally married. Even one thing. You can’t. Thus, he incurs massive risk for zero reward. Of course women do receive something a man doesn’t…free money if the relationship doesn’t work out. Marriage is no longer a sacred union. Marriage today is relationship-insurance for the female.”

      “Common Objection: “There IS one thing a man doesn’t get unless he’s married! Commitment!”

      Answer: If this were the 1950’s, that would be correct. But it’s the 21st century. Marriage is no longer a commitment. We live in a society where either person can get divorced for any reason at any time, and get a big pat on the back from friends and family when they do it (and even get PAID to do it if they’re female).”

      It’s really one of the ultimate posts on this subject. At the end of it, he talks about the combinations of personalities that have a shot at making a marriage work solid and happy with the guy getting as much sex as he wants out of it and all that, so it’s not IMPOSSIBLE, but the odds are REALLY fucking low these days, and the consequences are life-shattering.

      Like


      • I’ve been married for 25 years. The way you win with a wife is first of all marrying well so that your wife makes money and will not get alimony in divorce. Don’t marry a stupid woman.

        Next, remember that a woman is more invested in marriage than a man. Women feel a huge guilt about keeping the marriage in tact. As long as I am less needy about the commitment, I will always have the leverage of leaving the marriage.

        So let’s say your wife doesn’t wanna fuck you. Your job is to frame sex
        as something that normal married people do. If she is unwilling to do her part then you have no problem with moving on. I tell my wife that somebody is going to be fucking me. It can be her or it can be someone else. Her choice.

        We do not tolerate bad behavior in a date, why should we tolerate it in a marriage? It’s all about setting expectations.

        Like


      • on August 20, 2013 at 6:42 pm gunslingergregi

        wtf am I doing diferent that my problem is not wanting to fuck them as much as I do in beginning and they want to fuck me the same

        Like


      • Get her a gym membership

        Like


      • on August 20, 2013 at 7:07 pm gunslingergregi

        chicks body didn’t change I fucked shit out of her after a break but when she was in house for a while it got old
        last time we fucked she initiated and I fucked her other than that I wouldn’t of
        she said your fucking me
        and we did lol
        maybe ill find a bitch one day it don’t get old who knows

        Like


      • on August 20, 2013 at 7:13 pm gunslingergregi

        I guess my destiny is loves in the stable fresh pussy but never that happily ever after
        well happily ever after in love I can do but can’t keep up with myself lol

        Like


      • on August 20, 2013 at 7:50 pm gunslingergregi

        its a fucking tragedy

        Like


      • on August 20, 2013 at 7:51 pm gunslingergregi

        think coming close to accepting reality for what it is rather than what I wish it was

        Like


      • Yeah, oh the other hand trolling Starbucks and the velvet rope night clubs gets pretty old too. Pick your poison.

        Like


      • on August 20, 2013 at 8:17 pm gunslingergregi

        got it all kind of will figure it out
        got chick comin over to shave me now get ready to see other chick lol

        Like


  32. I only know of one hot girl who is smart and hates leftists. She said porn.

    See? Can’t win. Only sitting around rwadingsz honersz and shakeapearz gayspeqraz is worth doing loopozolzlllzz and then mass TeXt king lotsa cxoxksszz 4 uu looozlzlzzzzz

    Zzzz
    Z

    Lollzz

    -Friedrich Nietzsche
    The Will to Power (omg imagine he really wrote that? Omg crazy lol)

    Like


  33. Being a Bore is directly related to how clever one is at making fun connections between whatever topic it is at the moment.

    For example, heels, credit card payments, and good coffee, any one of the three could be a topic, a good conversationalist will be able to weave a commonality between the three things, or whatever topics comes up, and do so in a fun and insightful manner.

    Ranting or Sermonizing though, unless one is charismatic, is a deal breaker and will drive people away faster then asking for money

    Like


    • “how clever one is at making fun connections between whatever topic it is at the moment.”

      Ya, this is actually pretty important.

      Most of my game is verbal and a big part of it is 1) knowing what conversation topics are beneficial to achieving my goal, and 2) knowing how to steer the conversation smoothly toward those topics.

      Random normal guys sometimes suck at both. Or they’re good at smoothly conversing but it doesn’t go anywhere sexual (friend zone, “surprise, I have a penis!” game, etc). Or they’re good once they’re on good topics (sexual topics, telling a DHV, etc) but they don’t know how to get there smoothly so they come off like robots spouting spergy routines out of the blue like they’re reading off a script and trying to cram a square peg into a round hole.

      An exercise you can do to work on this skill is to get a buddy/wingman and pick a specific topic that you’re going to lead the conversation toward, but have him pick a random topic to start with. Your goal is simply to riff back and forth with him and steer the convo into your destination topic within a couple minutes of conversing.

      If you don’t have a buddy to do this with, try it on random people…like store clerks and people on the street you ask for time and people you approach at the bar etc

      The idea is to learn to guide the conversation where you want it to go. Part of why I end up talking about sex with girls I’ve just met is that I’m consciously guiding our conversation toward it. Or if I need to tone it back because she’s not receptive yet, I’ll guide us out of it and into some DHV topics or comfort/rapport, etc…wherever I need the convo to go to head toward my goal.

      So say your destination topic is “bananas” and they start with “my back hurts today”. You COULD just go:

      “My back hurts today”
      “Bananas are awesome.”

      But that’s spergy lol. But this would be smoother:

      “My back hurts today”
      “Ah shit, that sucks. How’d you hurt it?”
      “I think I slept funny.”
      “I hear that…now that I’m getting older, I throw my back out just bending over to get shit out of the refrigerator.”
      “Lol ya maybe I’m gettin old”
      “Soon you’ll be laying on the floor in front of your refrigerator, crumpled up telling the paramedics “I just wanted a fuckin banana!!” Lol”

      Now the topic of bananas has come up, but in a smooth way where it just seems like the conversation naturally flowed there.

      For practicing on random people, pick a destination topic that’s a DHV for you. Like a DHV story of something interesting or badass that’s happened to you recently…and make it your goal to lead every conversation toward you smoothly ending up telling that story.

      At the bar when you’re flirting with girls, do the same thing or try more sexual topics, like discussing weird fetishes people have, or where the craziest place they’ve had sex was, etc.

      Shoot for being at your destination topic within 15 minutes. Then go for 10 min. Then 5. Then see how fast you can get there and still make it sound smooth and natural.

      This is a really useful skill. Not just in one on ones with girls, but in leading group conversations or building rapport with other guys, or simply making someone’s day by knowing how to lead them off a sad topic onto a fun one, etc.

      Down the road, work on the skill until you can lead other people into thinking THEY came up with the conversation topic lol…THAT’S a fucking useful skill.

      Like


      • Exactly, or you could use sex to connect it to her bad back like “lack of sex can lead to that..” if the timing is right, or bananas have potassium which helps prevent muscle spasms etc.

        They key is having a well rounded knowledge of a lot of subjects, woman are eternally concerned about health issues, so supplements and their uses is always a great topic to have a general knowledge on etc.

        You are right, it is a skill, once you get good at it even friends will come to expect one to have the conversation agenda

        Like


  34. on August 20, 2013 at 11:21 am RappaccinisDaughter

    Re: The Salon story from your Twitter feed.

    At least he didn’t take the opportunity to call for more gun control in DC. After all, they’ve been almost impossible to get legally for three whole years (as opposed to completely impossible to get legally for three whole years). So it must have been mighty tempting for him to tie this in to the Heller decision.

    Instead, he’s just arguing against stop-and-frisk…which is almost as stupid as arguing for gun control, but not quite. At least, it’s got the fig leaf of Constitutionality on it.

    Baby steps, CH! Baby steps!

    [CH: I feel pity for the leftoid SWPL in that article. And pity is a form of contempt. He is, not to put too fine a point on it, a huge weeping vagina.]

    Like


    • on August 20, 2013 at 1:48 pm RappaccinisDaughter

      Pity is worse than contempt, CH, but it’s merited in this case. What we have here is somebody who is suffering from extreme cognitive dissonance. He cannot reconcile that which he knows to be true in a (literally) visceral sense with what he wishes to believe. What he’s been told, all his life, good people believe. That only stupid, dangerous, vicious people with no heart wouldn’t believe. And now, deep in the place where his spleen used to be before some thug shot it out in search of a stupid little techie toy, he can’t believe it any more.

      The thug didn’t just shoot him in the guts—he shot the SWPL in his *identity.* And now the SWPL is trying to regain it with public acts of expiation, like this article.

      Yes, pitiful.

      Like


  35. It works but it’s not very alpha.

    It’s a pretty beta mindset when you think about it.

    Oh people want to hear something else I’ll change the subject, guess I better. They want to hear something “amusing” and illogical, better comply.

    Alpha guy keeps hammering people with what he wants to talk about, the girls leave, oh well because he could give a shit if they don’t like him.

    I’ve had rooms full of people screaming at me while I remained totally calm and kept offending them. I can’t say it gets me laid much but occasionally one girl will be amazed.

    I think much of game is beta, basically catering to women.

    They always say be an asshole and be alpha (leader) but actually that’s bullshit.

    You can only lead by doing what other people want so you become a passive aggressive girlish nitwit. Never confronting directly, always calibrating to what the other person does.

    Look I’m alpha see I listened to everybody.

    What is described is more typical of female behavior.

    Like


    • The defining mark of alpha is success, not stubborness.

      Like


      • Just the opposite.

        If you are successful people listen and cater to you so you an talk about what you want.

        Say you play a gig with your band where you are frontman and blow the place down and girls are coming up to you and giving you high fives.

        You think you will need to back off wtf you are talking about? Not likely.

        Ask me how I know this.

        The only guys who have to do this are the ones with nothing but talk, they have to be careful because the tide will turn on them.

        Like


    • on August 20, 2013 at 12:36 pm Hugh G. Rection

      So by that logic, the homeless guy yelling at people from his street corner is your model of Alpha?

      Have you ever actually interacted with people?

      Like


      • Andy Kaufman was alpha, if he wasn’t there needs to be a new category invented.

        There’s a certain tipping point that happens where everyone is yelling at you and you are taking it in stride and mocking them.

        All the sudden people start to laugh more at you than at them and even enemies are won over.

        Yes I’ve been experienced.

        I won over a women’s studies class and the teacher ended up loving me, she gave me a B when I earned a D.

        I did nothing but mock their beliefs and bring up things they didn’t want to talk about.

        They would say “lets’ move on” and I’d ignore it and plow through with what I wanted.

        I would force topics on them and ram it down their throats until they laughed their asses off.

        By the end of the semester in that class I had conservative guys who were too scared to speak up coming up to thank me and the one attractive girl in the class was acting weird around me so I think it worked that whole alpha thing.

        I was the leader, not the teacher, I made her blush.

        Like


  36. […] get defensive. Related: Navigating the status minefield. Related: Don’t force conversation topics. Related: Don’t ask questions, make […]

    Like


  37. The reason women do conversation so much better than men is to them it is a competitive sport. And competition improves the breed.

    I noticed this when I worked in an office mainly full of middle-aged women. It’s like poker to them, the pot being whether you can hold the attention of the others and for how long.

    A woman would walk into the office and announce

    “OMG, my daughter’s pregnant. Full House. You have the floor a good five minutes.

    “OMG, my pantie elastic broke.” Three jacks. Two minutes of attention.

    “OMG, I can’t believe the drapes in this room.” Pair of threes. You’ll be ignored unless you play your cards very carefully. But a skillful player could trump the pregnant daughter with the drapes.

    Like


    • Great point. And which one of those three OMG’s would be typical of an AFC trying to make time with a girl?

      The third one of course. The one that she naturally despises from her years of women-talk / hen-talk. But the first two aren’t available / would be weird.

      Like