Alpha Assessment Monday

This is the first installment of Alpha Assessment Monday, where the readers and myself judge your conversations with women, or the conversations you plan on having with women, for its alphaness. Mockery, scorn and useful advice will be doled out in equal measure.

The first submission is from ATC:

Background – at the time of this interaction we’d been dating for 2 weeks. She’d slept in my bed a couple of times but wouldn’t escalate past 2nd base, despite the fact that I’m pretty sure I felt a Norplant-like device under her upper arm. [editor: ew.] If this is indeed what it was, I think it would be very hard to underestimate her sluttiness (for actual alphas, of course). She’s 23 and divorced (i.e. dumped) her husband a year ago.

Three days after this exchange, she started distancing herself and her texts became more pro forma before disappearing altogether by the end of the 3rd week.

Via text:
Her: Hey some buddies of mine saw me with you last night and they asked if you were my bf haha…people are gossiping now…but I cleared up the confusion.

Me: I’m too badass to be a mere bf.

Her: Hahaha geez…well I didn’t tell them anything [note: contradicting what her 1st text said]. Hmm, do you mean like a super buddy or what?

Me: That’s a label, and I don’t think we’re the type of people who are given to labeling ourselves.

Her: Hmm, I’m not sure I understand, but if what you’re trying to say is that you don’t want to be tied down, that’s ok because you can do what you want and so can I. =)

Me (6 hours later): Hey, guess what I overheard the hairdresser telling her girlfriend about me?

Her (immediately): What? (etc. etc.)

One crucial beta move jumps out — you let a girl sleep in your bed with you without getting any nookie. In other words, she got everything (companionship, sleep, validation, emotional orgasm) and you got nothing except Olympian blue balls.

A few times in my life a girl I had begun dating attempted this “we can sleep together and cuddle as long as you keep your hands to yourself” routine. This magnificent shit test is just about the most selfishly indulgent act of cruelty a woman can foist on a man. If you ever wondered whether women have *any* empathy at all for how a man feels and thinks, the “sleep but no sex” shit test should answer your question: Women don’t have a clue about the male sex drive, and of those that do have a clue they are cunty sadists if they pull this stunt.

I learned my lesson the hard way (quite hard) and ever since have responded in one of two ways:

  1. I left if we were at her place, or I kicked her out if she was at my place.
  2. I molested her all night long until she either relented and we screwed or she gave up on her idea of sleeping in my bed peacefully without sex.

By letting this chick sleep in YOUR BED on HER TERMS, you have stamped your forehead with a big, bold BETA. She now owns you. Don’t be surprised if she pushes the bitch boundaries with you a lot harder and a lot more often than other girls you have dated. Once a girl smells beta chum in the water she will circle your flaccid, bleeding husk for eternity, biting chunks of manhood out of you until your dignity is consumed or she tires of batting you around like a cat toy.

Moving on, the Norplant is a huge slut tell. There’s no other way to put it. Girls with a modicum of intelligence and conscientiousness will choose to take the pill over having a stick buried in their flesh. Seriously, what kind of women use Norplant? Ghetto trash. Impulsive thrill-seekers. Nymphos. Raw dog lovers. Recently divorced girls who plan to live it up with all the random cock they missed when they got married young. If you feel a Norplant in your girl, you’re one small step from double dicking her festering hole with one of the Bang Bros.

On to the text exchange.

Her: Hey some buddies of mine saw me with you last night and they asked if you were my bf haha…people are gossiping now…but I cleared up the confusion.

Total bitch. You like this chick? Her shit tests are smelly and transparent. Is she from a lower class? On the plus side, she’s thinking about fucking you. Girls don’t shit test guys they have completely written off.

Me: I’m too badass to be a mere bf.

A swing… and a miss. The problem with your reply is that you played right into her frame. And her frame SUCKS. It’s rotten to the core. The only acceptable response is a reframe, or genuine, sincere, knock the snot right outta her, ASSHOLE GAME. An example of what I mean:

YOU: [after 8 hour delay] I’m confused. You’re talking, but I don’t see you buying me a beer.

Let’s take a look at your next text.

Her: Hahaha geez…well I didn’t tell them anything [note: contradicting what her 1st text said]. Hmm, do you mean like a super buddy or what?

Me: That’s a label, and I don’t think we’re the type of people who are given to labeling ourselves.

You’re scrambling to catch up to her. She’s leading this bitchy, Norplant-embedded conversation and knows it, too. Your reply sounds like something you gleaned from a PUA guide book and misapplied at the wrong time, when it was too late to have the intended effect.

Her: Hmm, I’m not sure I understand, but if what you’re trying to say is that you don’t want to be tied down, that’s ok because you can do what you want and so can I. =)

Me (6 hours later): Hey, guess what I overheard the hairdresser telling her girlfriend about me?

Her (immediately): What? (etc. etc.)

This was the best exchange with her that you had. You ignored her beta bait, waited an appropriate amount of time (six hours) before responding to a woman of her character (low), and re-engaged with some random observation. That she answered you immediately tells me two things: One, she was still contemplating you as a sexual creature. Two, she’s a fickle drama whore who can’t resist dumbed down gossip. The way to game these types of girls is NOT to feed her world of drama with your own manufactured drama. That road leads to LJBF and more sexless slumber parties. The way to game them is stone cold, one word assholery. These girls love to fill in the blanks when you tease them with brief, erratic discharges from your reptilian brain.

Maxim #30: When in doubt, ask yourself “WWJD?” What Would a Jerk Do? Then do that.

Your Alpha Assessment Score (AAS) on a scale from 1 – 10: 3 (Your instincts are poor, but self-awareness is the first step to alpha status.)





Comments


  1. on September 14, 2009 at 1:11 pm ironrailsironweights

    Seriously, what kind of women use Norplant? Ghetto trash. Impulsive thrill-seekers. Nymphos. Raw dog lovers. Recently divorced girls who plan to live it up with all the random cock they missed when they got married young.

    Add “those who don’t care about catching STD’s.”

    Peter

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  2. Or you can ask yourself “WWTJFD?”– “What would tjf do?”—then do the complete opposite.

    He’s like a bitter, trolling George Costanza on that one.

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  3. I agree with your assessment, Roissy, but here’s a more normative question:

    Why, pray tell, would a man even waste time with a woman like that? She’s clearly not worth even the minimal investment of texting. What could she possibly offer that masturbation cannot? An emotional or intellectual (ha!) connection is out of the question. So what’s the point? Is it not insufferably beta to be so desperate for sexual attention as to entertain someone like that at all?

    I vomited here: “that’s ok because you can do what you want and so can I. =)” Using an emoticon in allusion to fucking other guys? This world really has come to an end.

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  4. ” Girls don’t shit test guys they have completely written off.”

    So does that mean that if they dont ST at all you’re good?

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  5. Your texting advice in this & a previous post is excellent.

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  6. What could she possibly offer that masturbation cannot?… Is it not insufferably beta to be so desperate for sexual attention as to entertain someone like that at all?

    I’m guessing the answer is confidence. You can go home every night, beat off, and tell yourself that it’s only because all the girls at the bar were low quality. But that will become a pattern you never break.

    It is better to fuck a low quality girl – for confidence in your game and yourself, for experience, for practicing game ideas – than beat off. Period.

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  7. Maybe ATC should have emailed her this:

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  8. Norplant hasn’t been sold in the US for years. Is she from Bangladesh? …. more likely, there was no implant.

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  9. I agree with most of the advice and analysis except the last part.

    The vague text about the hairdressers’ comments is too transparent. This girl may be a drama-queen, but I don’t think it would do anything to help the cause of getting her into bed (not that you should want to).

    But I went through something with my current GF similar to the exchange where she said people were asking about their relationship status. She was wishy-washy about the prospects and was feeling ATC out about how he felt. She would make comments like this then go cold. Classic shit test.

    She wants to have the possibility of a relationship without the actual commitment as shown by her desire to lay in bed without making with the pussy. She’s unsure if she wants to continue further with ATC. If she’s newly single, she’s probably juggling the options of 4 or 5 cocks. The only solution is distance. She might hit him up to hang out. Self-discipline is key. Reject her first attempt but meet her on the second with a new level of cockiness. This would probably lead to sex.

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  10. Here’s how it would’ve went with me:
    Her: Hey some buddies of mine saw me with you last night and they asked if you were my bf haha…people are gossiping now…but I cleared up the confusion.

    Me: Rachel, right? [ie her first name. You should never say “I’m too badass…” unless it’s clearly tongue in cheek. it’s extremely toolish.]

    Her: Hahaha geez…well I didn’t tell them anything [note: contradicting what her 1st text said]. Hmm, do you mean like a super buddy or what?

    Me: super buddy? god you’re weird [girls are always judging other people, so it strikes home when you play it back.]

    Her: Hmm, I’m not sure I understand, but if what you’re trying to say is that you don’t want to be tied down, that’s ok because you can do what you want and so can I. =)

    Me (6 hours later): [don’t re-engage, unless a meetup soon is plausible. no point to texting except to arrange a meet.]

    One word game works, though I’ve taken it to an extreme where girls don’t understand. One was “svetlana study break” to a girl of russian descent in a class of mine, that I’d kissed. She only got it later, when i ran into her.

    For breaking the ice days after the initial meet, a good two or three word text works, using some detail from your conversation.

    Some I’ve used:
    “half dirty-perzh” for a halfpersian girl who thinks persians are dirty.
    “Miss Slovakia” for a slovakian girl, put her name in as alex slovakia, and she told me that i must have every country in my phone.
    “the dutch skyscraper” for a tall dutchess, this one met with no response though she wasnt that into me anyway.
    “indiana…that’s harsh” for a girl who lived in indiana for a time.
    “an erudite engineer…impossible” for a seemingly literate engineer student. wasn’t actually literate, turns out.
    “the haughty writer” for a somewhat pretentious screenwriter.

    in person – “there’s about a foot of you I don’t know what to do with” to a 5’9″ chick, before fucking her the 2nd or 3rd time. Good line for tall girls generally actually, just change the ‘don’t’ to ‘wouldn’t.’

    “I like how my [white] pants match your skin” to the pale aforementioned tall chick. “nice posture babe” as i’m putting my hands on her back trying to straighten her. girls with bad posture are insecure about it.

    went on a wine tour where there was a girl i was banging, and then my platonic date. called the date ‘wifey’ and the bang ‘mistress.’ alternated between them.

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  11. Her: “Hey some buddies of mine saw me with you last night and they asked if you were my bf haha…people are gossiping now…but I cleared up the confusion.”

    reread that. Kinda bitchy as R says, just letting you know were aren’t bf/gf. Waving beta bait in front of your face via text! My beta side is telling me that it’s a cry for attachment, but really that’s got to be her staking out a boundary: “You are second base friend, let’s have sleep overs and gossip about boys.”

    I think jumping at beta bait (oh, smoochy, I wish we were superserious for ever and ever) would’ve been bad. But really, any response that takes this seriously is bad. You are letting her dictate terms.

    Better response (?), “I know, girls are stupid” Ignore the implication about relationships, feelings.

    Go with agree and amplify? Can’t see how that could be done.

    Also, the whole, I’m too cool for labels thing strikes me as needy, you’re already being walked down her path while performing empty self-aggrandizing (DLV). She pretty much walked you into admitting that you’re cool with her getting random dicks.

    Alpha summary, too stupid to be alpha.
    Beta summary, not enough skin in the game to make her take you seriously.

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  12. “Me: I’m too badass to be a mere bf.”

    I agree this was a very poor answer. If you have to say it, then you’re not.

    Her initial text was pretty much saying “I never want to have sex with you again.” She was toying with you and the “haha” was especially mean. Therefore you have to be Sylvester Stallone and go Over The Top…

    “That’s nice that you talk about me so much, but i don’t see you as more than a pump and dump. I hope that clears up any remaining confusing.”

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  13. Any guy who allows a girl to sleep with him without first fucking her has already lost the battle.

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  14. Better response, silence?

    BTW, isn’t the “people were gossiping about us” shit test pretty common. Is there a response?

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  15. Women don’t have a clue about the male sex drive

    too true.

    I actually think that the text messages was more in line with aoefe/chuck‘s analysis; it sounds like insecurity nosing around to test to see if he’ll take her seriously. Otherwise that is some stone cold bitchiness.

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  16. askjoe

    Serious question: why is a “response” to a shit test so important? Why not just write off women who play these sorts of games?

    I don’t try to “pass” overt shit tests. I leave as soon as they appear.

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  17. Other possible answers:

    Her: Hey some buddies of mine saw me with you last night and they asked if you were my bf haha…people are gossiping now…but I cleared up the confusion.

    Me: Are you in jr. high or something?

    Me: Are you always this trailer park?

    Me: Buddies? That’s funny.

    Her: Hahaha geez…well I didn’t tell them anything. Hmm, do you mean like a super buddy or what?

    Me: What’s up with all this ‘buddy’ stuff? Don’t you know any grown up words?

    Me: Why yes, I would like a vodka tonic, thank you for asking.

    Her: Hmm, I’m not sure I understand, but if what you’re trying to say is that you don’t want to be tied down, that’s ok because you can do what you want and so can I. =)

    Me : Freedom’s just another word for no one left to fuck…

    Me : Too bad ‘being interesting’ isn’t something you want to do.

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  18. Any guy who allows a girl to sleep with him without first fucking her has already lost the battle.

    Wow, this has gotta be the first time Lucifer has said something that isn’t totally idiotic and that I wholeheartedly agree with!

    Sleep without sex? Fuuuuuck that. Why?

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  19. He could have just said in his first reply:

    “You turned out to be less hotter than I had expected. Hope things work out for you, eventually.”

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  20. Cless, I understand that sometimes it’s best to just walk away. Roosh has a whole post that mimics your position.

    OTH, our blog-leader has in the past given advice on answering various shit-tests. I found advice and analysis humorous and entertaining. So, I threw it out there because I am sure I’ve heard the “rumors” thing before and wondered what’s up with that.

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  21. Any guy who allows a girl to sleep with him without first fucking her has already lost the battle.

    If ‘lost the battle’ means ‘won’t fuck her’, than that’s not true.

    Most of the readers, certainly a majority, are beta trying to learn better. You can improve your game in increments. Going from beta straight to the worst caricature of a Roissy commenter’s advice will only turn an earnest, frustrated loser in love into a bitter, worse-off loser in love.

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  22. Her: “Hey some buddies of mine saw me with you last night and they asked if you were my bf haha…people are gossiping now…but I cleared up the confusion.”

    Best response: “Good. Blah blah blah something else…” Sounds to me like she’s trolling, trying to get him to ask which way she cleared it up. This answer turns it around on her, letting her be the one wondering what he thinks she meant by her ambiguous statement. And the one-word answer followed by changing topics shows he doesn’t care that much anyway.

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  23. or he could have said.

    “I do not care about events in your pathetic life. Go, and find someone who does”

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  24. Seeking Alpha,

    I can get an escort (7-8) for the amount of money that most men spend to bed a 5.

    If you are THAT beholden to the power of “free” pussy, it is hopeless.

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  25. There is nothing that could have been spoken or written that would have repaired this one bit. I didn’t need to read the text thread, the background story was enough. This woman slept in his bed with him, not once but TWICE giving him no play. On top of that she’s 23 and already divorced with her doing the walking.

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  26. Again, non-Roissy commenters are throwing out a lot of cavemen “fuck yous” in response to her first shit-text. That’s all good as far as wanting to be rid of her. But not texting back ever can accomplish the same thing.

    Roosh, is saying things like “i don’t see you as more than a pump and dump” gonna get you laid?

    Not saying it won’t; I’m just not clear if your reply was a way of dumping her or gaming her.

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  27. Lucy,

    As Roissy would agree, women are good for more than just a hole to dump your cum into. Love, intimacy, and social status (the kind you get going out with a beautiful girl) are normal things for men to like – yes even alphas.

    Doesn’t mean you have to marry the girl and put her on a pedestal. But most normal alphas would prefer multiple medium term relationships with a healthy power structure and the occasional one night thing to constant one nighters or – even worse – your obsession with working girls.

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  28. Sounds like a classy broad. I wouldn’t waste any more time and energy on her. Just do a Next and proceed to another woman.

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  29. joeindc44

    Fair and solid point. I guess it’s one thing to take pleasure in intellectually sparring against girls after shit tests, even if girls who use them tend to be weak opponents. I just can’t imagine taking the time to actually sleep with one.

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  30. anony, there are other brands of implants available in the US:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implanon

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  31. Seeking Alpha,

    I cannot will myself to do anything unless the benefits outweigh the costs.

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  32. Are there women who don’t use shit tests? I thought they were a natural mechanism all women use to test men.

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  33. That one is going in our SWPL coffee table book Lucy. I’m gonna make you rich.

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  34. Her: “Hey some buddies of mine saw me with you last night and they asked if you were my bf haha…people are gossiping now…but I cleared up the confusion.”

    Me (a couple of hours later): “So you admitted you aren’t good enough for me? You’re stronger than I thought.”

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  35. natural mechanism all women use to test men.

    Exactly. All women use shit tests. But shit tests come in all kinds of varieties: they can be cutesy, girly, or sneaky, depending on the girl’s personality and her attraction to the guy. A shit test in not necessarily vulgar or disrespectful.

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  36. Seeking Alpha,

    Commensalism and Symbiosis is acceptable, Parasitism is not.

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  37. I had an epiphany recently that I wouldn’t fuck girls I didn’t want to talk to. And then my libido returned.

    Ie, telling this girl to fuck off is lame. Sure, she sucks, but circumstances and attractiveness permitting, it’s worth some minimal effort to try and bang her. Seems like guys giving the responses here are more interested in seeming ‘alpha’ than actually banging.

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  38. Lucy –

    You’re suggesting girls are parasites under what conditions?

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  39. Basil Ransom,

    I am interested in banging any woman who turns me on. I am not going to play games with one entitled bitch to get in her pussy, if I can get into another equivalent one for less effort.

    Why choose path Nx when Ny is an easier (equivalent) path.

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  40. I agree that sleeping together with an obviously experienced woman (divorcee) without having sex is beta. Very beta. Your sex drive should be far too irresistible for that. Both for her and for you. Confirming physically that it isn’t is a form of gelding. She’s got him on a leash.

    The text conversation as well just screaming that she want to put ATC on the back burner, still simmering away for her, and available as a backup date. While she tries to find someone better. Her shit tests go to that. She’s leading that, rather than chasing him, worrying about who else he might be seeing, and wanting more of him for herself.

    No negging on his part. Definitely needed a combo of negging and aloofness. Plus social proof. Her “buddies” need to see him with another hottie. That’s assuming she’s worth continuing to game at all. I’d be inclined to write that one off. Or anyway to take aloof to the level of ignore and see if she does chase enough; then reevaluate.

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  41. The problem with using nothing but escorts is that a professional will never give you three very important things: seduction, validation, and intimacy.

    Not saying you need these with every woman you shag, but never experiencing them is the mark of an o m e g a.

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  42. PA

    Exactly. All women use shit tests. But shit tests come in all kinds of varieties: they can be cutesy, girly, or sneaky, depending on the girl’s personality and her attraction to the guy.

    Yup.

    More in the beginning but somewhat on an ongoing basis. If you get a good alpha dynamic relationship going, the shit tests are less. But never non existent. Of course if she sees you proving yourself with other people, being a leader, winning battles, holding your own etc., that serves the same purpose for her.

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  43. Aaron

    The term “shit test” is overused. A woman who makes fun of her date (playfully) or makes cute jokes is not shit testing a man. Shit testing being rude and inconsiderate, not playful or jocular.

    A lot of guys have no sense of humor and over-apply the concept of a shit-test.

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  44. I agree that sleeping together with an obviously experienced woman (divorcee) without having sex is beta.

    Doug – glad you made that distinction. You can, for example, be dating a very young and inexperienced girl with great LTR qualities, in which case, as long as you know sex will eventually happen and that she does want you, but wants to keep a slow pace, it’s OK to sleep with her without sex. Though it’s also important to not let her get too comfy wiht the idea, heh.

    But with a ho — no good girl allowance whatsoever.

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  45. on September 14, 2009 at 3:01 pm SAW: South Asian Woman

    Is a shit test a “neg”?

    Confused….

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  46. Roissy–

    I think your prejudice against Norplant or it’s successor Implanon is wrong headed.

    If the woman does have a bc implant it was probably due to her marriage, or when she was engaged. Non condom methods of birth control are most used by women in relationships to allow non condom, better sex. For casual sex before she knows her partner well women should and usually do use condoms. I.e. sluts mostly use the condom method, except the most reckless among them.

    Implants are nearly fool proof. If you’re worried about some girl sticking you with an ooops baby, feeling her implant in place on her arm is a real comfort. Pills can be skipped, intentionally or “subconsciously”.

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  47. PA,

    Let’s say you marry a woman you love (or date her on a LT basis). Now imagine that she breaks up with you..

    Do you believe that anything she said during the time you were together was truthful or honest?

    If you do.. keep on believing that.

    If you are not sure.. then you are starting to see the unspeakable reality.

    PS- If you require intimacy and validation from a woman, what is the difference between you and that guy who places women on pedestals. He is just being a more fervent worshiper.

    and why would I care about seduction, when I know that is not real (but based on that woman’s temporal needs and wants)

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  48. I don’t even know what Norplant is, but I’m thinking that all women choose birth control methods based on what will cause the least weight gain, the least bleeding and what is affordable or covered by insurance. I do not think the perceived slutiness of one method over another ever factors in. I was not aware that birth control methods conveyed something about the class or promiscuity of a woman.

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  49. Agree completely PA. This is really what I meant.

    Doug – glad you made that distinction. You can, for example, be dating a very young and inexperienced girl with great LTR qualities, in which case, as long as you know sex will eventually happen and that she does want you, but wants to keep a slow pace, it’s OK to sleep with her without sex. Though it’s also important to not let her get too comfy wiht the idea, heh.

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  50. @ Cless Alvein

    Serious question: why is a “response” to a shit test so important? Why not just write off women who play these sorts of games?

    The short answer is that all women shit-test (to varying degrees, with varying levels of self-awareness about what they’re doing), so writing off women who play “these sorts of games” can quickly escalate to writing women off “completely”. As Roissy has noted, and Dave From Hawaii can attest, shit-tests continue ad infinitum, though they may diminish in frequency and severity as the LTR progresses.

    On this site, the term “shit-test”, from what I can tell, has a wider scope that just the sort of overt, blatantly crappy and selfish antics of the Norplant-slut under discussion. It refers to all manner of subconscious and oblique behaviors/tactics that women have developed over the millennia to size-up potential mates.

    There’s good evo-psych reasons as to why women should act/think this way, and women can no more turn-off their shit testing instincts that we men can turn off our eye for the perfect hip-to-waist ratio, etc.

    So, passing shit-tests, even when they aren’t advertised by glowing neon-lights as such, is necessary if for both attracting (pick-up) and keeping (LTR) women.

    Now…that being said, if some slung yut is throwing her sluttiness in your face via text, while simultaneously blue-balling you as a matter of course, then yeah…maybe blow the bitch off and don’t worry about passing. But ATC wants to bang this broad (she’s probably reasonably hot), and navigating her idiocy is unfortunately par for the course.

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  51. dyke, women I have been with are very emotional about b.c., and there is a divide.

    Some take it religiously, and some are completely anti-b.c. pills/hormones for reasons I can agree with—-they see that fucking with the chemicals and natural reproductive cycle in your body so much and limiting the expunging of a waste product might be extremely dangerous.

    Add to that the fact that these women were aware how the Feminazi movement deliberately hides the bad effects of pro-feminazi things (e.g. disparaging,/hiding post-abortion trama, hiding the number of women who have turned against abortion after having one, hidign the extreme drop off in fertility after 35, hiding detailed utlra sounds and the bodies of aborted babies) and it isn’t surprising they aren’t going to totally buy the feminist tripe about birth control being a positive thing alone.

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  52. roissy

    One crucial beta move jumps out — you let a girl sleep in your bed with you without getting any nookie.

    Hey, guess what: not everyone is always looking for sex when they’re with a woman. Some people are actually interested in serious relationships with quality women, instead of banging cheap sluts like PUAs do.

    [editor: your mom is not a cheap slut. show some respect!]

    lurker

    Or you can ask yourself “WWTJFD?”– “What would tjf do?”—then do the complete opposite.

    He’s like a bitter, trolling George Costanza on that one.

    Yet another example of lurker trolling and trying to hide it by pointing the finger at others. roissy’s post does not mention me and has nothing to do with me, and prior to lurker’s post (the second one in the thread) I had not even posted in the thread.

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  53. Cless Alvein

    Serious question: why is a “response” to a shit test so important? Why not just write off women who play these sorts of games?

    Because that would make way too much sense. Or because PUAs are unwilling and/or unable to go after quality women, and don’t seem to even recognize their existence. I have no idea what this strange behavior is based on.

    Lucifer

    PS- If you require intimacy and validation from a woman, what is the difference between you and that guy who places women on pedestals. He is just being a more fervent worshiper.

    Yes, because liking or loving a woman is somehow morally wrong. Or something.

    A-Bax

    The short answer is that all women shit-test

    Except this is not actually true. It’s just another PUA delusion.

    roissy

    your mom is not a cheap slut. show some respect!

    This is the sort of comeback I would expect from a 13 year old.

    [editor: does your sphincter flex when you pass the small mammals cages at the pet store?]

    Like


  54. Lucifer, so good to see you write sensibly for a change. Meds kicked in? Just for that, I reply to you with your real name, not its feminine dimunitive.

    Let’s say you marry a woman you love (or date her on a LT basis). Now imagine that she breaks up with you.. Do you believe that anything she said during the time you were together was truthful or honest?

    Enjoying a great meal or winning a marathon is no less real just because the plate is empty and the race is over.

    If you require intimacy and validation from a woman, what is the difference between you and that guy who places women on pedestals.

    Wrong. A guy who puts women on a pedestal worships them. A guy who has intimacy wiht a girl has her worship him. Validation (ie, a woman’s needing and respecting you) feels real nice too.

    and why would I care about seduction, when I know that is not real (but based on that woman’s temporal needs and wants)

    Seducing a good looking woman is a rush like no other.

    Like


  55. you know who

    Except this is not actually true. It’s just another PUA delusion.

    So you know who, have you heard of this thing called “human nature”? It’s really quite fascinating.

    Or because PUAs are unwilling and/or unable to go after quality women.

    News flash: game is not just about hitting bar sluts. Open your eyes to the world as it is, Donny! Even Gisele Bundchen fell prey to Tom Brady’s shit-test-passing, neg-using game.

    Like


  56. These text responses are way to long. Try something more along the lines of:

    – Uh huh.

    – Right.

    – Boring.

    – Who is this?

    Like


  57. PA,

    Do you think I care about what you call me? If you call a nuke, ‘Cuddle-Bearz’ it won’t evaporate you any slower.

    Like


  58. Or because PUAs are unwilling and/or unable to go after quality women, and don’t seem to even recognize their existence.

    To be fair, they are rare. (Quality women, that is; PUAs are a-dime-a-dozen.)

    Like


  59. Maybe she was on her period & opted for cuddle and kiss time. Or maybe, they ended up at his place incidentally the first time and she wasn’t groomed as nicely as she would have liked to be for their first time.

    [editor: your naivete is precious. tjf swoons.]

    Like


  60. Man, this is sad. Such an alpha tone mixed with such beta behavior: by ROISSY, not the poster.

    First off, ALPHA males don’t have to HIDE behind a pseudonym. Are you AFRAID of something coming out if your name becomes known? Maybe your exes would find it?

    You have missed SO many dynamics here that it’s not surprising you would resort to either separating from her, or “molesting” her (that’s called “sexual assault” btw).

    As I’m saving the best part of my answer for my upcoming book, I’ll just ask something more basic:

    WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO FUCK A WOMAN LIKE THIS? Even if you win, you lose. Unless this is the best you can do. If it is, then you aren’t the “PUA” you think you are. There IS a class of woman that is above all this. If you find yourself dealing with shit-tests, bitch-shields, and all that garbage, it means you aren’t picking your women correctly, assuming you are as attractive as you claim.

    You say you are alpha, yet you spend a lot of time trying to impress women you then pretend not to want, while with them. What should be obvious — that the women who don’t play these games are choosing other men — seems lost on this frat-boy crowd.

    Do you expect to remain young forever? The time you have left to wise up and improve your game is not infinite. Once you hit my age (42), all the “game” in the world won’t help you if you aren’t rich and famous. How many pro athletes still play after forty? Some, not many. How about fifty? A man who is scraping the bottom of the personality barrel in his prime, won’t have much of a future after his prime, or many memories to smile upon when looking back.

    The guy was fortunate NOT to lay the chick, because then he’d be in for a thousand times worse drama. He DOES have other, better options right? Instead of TALKING about them, he should be WITH them.

    Where did Roissy learn “game” from? Was he the one who said it was after he read an article in 1998? I wrote my first PUA book (“Outfoxing The Foxes”) that year, EIGHTEEN years after my first kiss. If he learned it from a “guru,” then he learned it SECOND-HAND, or worse, if the “guru” learned from another guru.

    Who did I learn from? Direct “combat” with some of the sexiest women this planet has ever seen, while they were in their absolute prime (i.e., close to eighteen). Most “game” at that level isn’t in the books, because the only way to pry out the theory is to find the hottest chicks with the best personalities, and then be skilled enough not to get disqualified, so you can actually see how they act when actually deciding whether or to actually fuck you. Better targets also bring better rivals, so I got to see THEIR game as well, when competing against it?

    This target? A RANDOM HOT CHICK. Not worth a second thought. So what if they aren’t fucking? He can have a girl in his bed without his life falling apart as long as he doesn’t read too much into it and get hooked. No need for insults, aggression, darting off in a huff, or attempted rape. If all the game would give him, from THIS chick, is her in his bed without sex, so be it.

    If you really want that “one special girl,” try treating them as if they were.

    Ray Gordon
    “Love Conquers Nothing”
    http://www.toosmarttofail.com

    Like


  61. To the pedestal-ers out there:

    “Quality women” v. “non-quality women” is not a binary distinction. You guys seem to suffer from the basic, default madonna-or-whore vision of femininity. On this view, non-quality women shit-test, sleep around, are crass, and are susceptible to the machinations of a PUA. On the other hand, quality women don’t shit-test, only sleep with men they love, are elegant, and are too smart/sophisticated to fall for any PUA trickery.

    This view is mistaken. The “quality” of a woman (or a man, for that matter) falls along a continuum. Thus, the effectiveness of game is a function of the dude’s skill as well as where the chick falls along the continuum (with different game-tactics used for different kinds of women, as Roissy has detailed at length.)

    But no chick whose libido has a pulse is categorically immune to game. For pedestal-ers, this is an inconvenient truth, and they rail against it.

    Like


  62. on September 14, 2009 at 4:42 pm greater beta in ny

    My response to the first text would probably be: “Glad I could start some drama for you”

    Feel free to pick it apart, but that’s what my first instinct would be.

    Like


  63. tjf is here! tjf, we found another ignoramous for you to buff-fuck hampsters with! Welcome Zunder to your star wars-themed room above your mother’s basement, where Islamic history is a lie!

    Like


  64. If you are trying to go for amused mastery, I guess the response should be something like:

    HER: I told all my friends we were not boyfriend/girlfriend.
    YOU: That’s nice. Your friends are kind of boring.

    Or words along that lines. Keep it as short, casually dismissive, and implicitly critical (“nice” and “boring” are swear words to women).

    Like


  65. A-Bax

    “This view is mistaken. The ‘quality’ of a woman (or a man, for that matter) falls along a continuum.”

    There’s a spectrum, but the question of whether I could take a woman seriously enough to pursue a long-term relationship is binary, and I like to believe that most of the women I’d put in the “yes” category are of very strong moral character, and a set apart from the sluts that PUAs turn over.

    I’m sure a PUA could get a so-called “heroic woman” to spend time with him for a while, but probably because the “good girl” would fall for his charm and believe he actually wants to be friends with her. PUAs only get good girls to sleep with them when they overtly mislead them into believing an intimate relationship is there, and that’s a lot of work.

    Much of successful PUAism is target selection, and generally the good girls are excluded, since the goal is to find someone who will respond to gimmicks and put out quickly.

    Like


  66. Also, on the “pedestal” concept, I don’t advise that. Even good girls are imperfect, obviously. They make mistakes just like us “good guys” and are to be cherished, but not worshiped.

    Like


  67. and a set apart from the sluts that PUAs turn over.

    Do you have a lot of friends who are successful PUAs? Do you have a lot of sexual experience with girls – either pick-up-able sluts or good girls?

    If you answered both those questions no, you might ask yourself why you’re making important life decisions based on uninformed assumptions. It’s dangerous.

    Like


  68. Cless Alvein – fair enough.

    I would only note that, for many men, the question of whether or not to pursue a woman (for an LTR or otherwise) is NOT binary. There are degrees and shades of attraction/oppurtunity/effort that go into it.

    And I’d be careful about this formulation: PUAs only get good girls to sleep with them when they overtly mislead them into believing an intimate relationship is there.

    It’s bordering on a tautology: i.e., “good” girls are only interested in intimate (I’m assuming you mean with an emotional component) relationships. When their behavior suggests otherwise – as in sleeping with a man we might be inclined to call a PUA, they’ve been “overtly misled”.

    Maybe…or maybe they answered the call of the gina tingle.

    Like


  69. Her: Hey some buddies of mine saw me with you last night and they asked if you were my bf haha…people are gossiping now…but I cleared up the confusion.”

    Him: Thanks

    That response will totally mess with her head. Promise.

    Like


  70. anyone have any info as to what the hell rooshs next book will be about?


    man…this has to be a joke.

    Like


  71. aoefe every guy here knows never to take advice from a women, about women. its kind of like a fish teaching a man how to fish.

    but there is one exception: asking a hot chick for advice in a clothing store on what looks the best.

    Like


  72. What always fascinates me when these kind of discussions come up, is just how often guys will “attack” some aspect of Game, instead of doing the inner work necesary in order to become successful. THAT is why Game doesn’t work for so many guys, and for that matter precious little works for them either, because far too many Men are unwilling to be introspective. In short, far too many Men are unwilling to change.

    This is perhaps the singlebiggest lesson I took away from Style’s book The Game, his personal journey of self-transformation. Somehow, I get the feeling that the vast majority of Men here would not do half as much transforming as he did, yet still complain about the state of Women today. They still think that doing what their dad and grand dad works in early 21st century America. Einstein supposedly said that to do the same thing over and over and expect a different result is the definition of insanity. Hmm.

    For “You Know Who”: you often have derided Game as the preserve of those who only get lowclass Women. That’s fine-so could you please outline your method of getting a high quality Women? From First Contact through to Consumation? I am very interested in learning more as to how you do it. Please share.

    For the others here-do you have text message exchanges with Women you’d care to share? And if you don’t, could there be a reason for that? How many Women do you talk to in the course of a week? How many number closes? This isn’t intended to embarass you, but to get you to focus on a make or break area of your life.

    We can sit here and quibble over what makes or doesn’t make for a “quality Woman”, but the bottomline here is are you becoming a “quality Man”? Because, afterall, yore the only person that you have any control over, for sure. You’re the X-factor, the one constant in your interactions with others. At some point, you have to take a good long look in the mirror. There is no avoiding this.

    Style did it. And so has every successful PUA out there, every Man who has acheived success via Game. And if you hope to do same, you also will have to take honest stock of yourself.

    Just sayin.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  73. “collegeboy

    aoefe every guy here knows never to take advice from a women, about women. its kind of like a fish teaching a man how to fish.

    but there is one exception: asking a hot chick for advice in a clothing store on what looks the best.”

    O: Tru dat; always be mindful of the Rule Of Ten Percent, son.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  74. Here’s a thought. When you receive a text, don’t answer it.

    An alpha man doesn’t text like a teenie bopper. An alpha man is too busy with such jr. high antics.

    Like


  75. aoefe every guy here knows never to take advice from a women, about women. its kind of like a fish teaching a man how to fish.

    normally i agree, but in this case aofe offers a very solid example of one word game.

    Like


  76. @ collegeboy – I’d assume it’s about gaming and his travels in Latin America. He has a story about a dead bat in his bed at a hostel.

    Like


  77. Agreed with JR. Her advice is awesome, especially if you don’t answer whatever follow-up question she’s bound to have.

    Like


  78. collegboy “aoefe every guy here knows never to take advice from a women, about women. its kind of like a fish teaching a man how to fish.”

    I agree we can give bad advice. That said as a single woman it’s quite easy to put myself in the head of a woman (duh) and know what would get me interested or going. I believe in the concepts being taught here and know what is effective either as a strategy or natural application with me, a typical hypergamous chick.

    You can choose to ignore me, your loss. 😉

    Like


  79. One word responses
    thanks.
    cool.
    gay.
    um.

    one letter response:

    o

    I still like, “yeah, girls are dumb.”

    Like


  80. JR

    normally i agree, but in this case [aoefe] offers a very solid example of one word game.

    This isn’t the first time. Aoefe is a rare exception to the rule about not taking advice from girls as to what will work with girls. She’s had a bunch of it over time.

    Aside from her being unusually self aware, believing in game, and liking it, I have a theory as to why she’s often quite good at game advice. It think it’s linked to aoefe’s explicitly embracing liking to be submissive, in an active, smart and capable girl kind of way with men who do it for her. That keeps her from hiding from realizations around the edges or straight down the middle, that power games work on chicks. Refusing to admit that is a lot of why girls are so bad at advice to guys.

    Like


  81. @ Cless

    even if girls who use them tend to be weak opponents

    Double entendre? Or are you implying that not all women shit-test?

    @ Doug1

    Non condom methods of birth control are most used by women in relationships to allow non condom, better sex.

    SRSLY.

    @ aoefe

    Her: Hey some buddies of mine saw me with you last night and they asked if you were my bf haha…people are gossiping now…but I cleared up the confusion.”

    Him: Thanks

    That response will totally mess with her head. Promise.

    Yeah, seriously. I do agree with al — this seems like it could’ve been one of those “let’s find out how he feels” tests where the girl wants to know if your serious…but doesn’t want to let on that she’s serious if you’re not serious. Or she could just be a bitch. She’s 23 and divorced? That should be the biggest red flag right there.

    Like


  82. Roissy,

    perhaps you could do a post on what a woman’s choice of birth control is supposed to mean because I completely disagree with you on the Norplant thing. I agree with feministx, women choose bc for all types of reasons.

    I know women on the pill who have had several abortions because they’re irresponsible and don’t take their pills on time. Personally, I’m a woman and over the years I’ve been on the pill, had Depo-provera, used condoms and I’m now finally using an IUD.

    Does having an IUD make me a slut? Yikes!!!

    So, I’ll be looking for a post from you on this some time soon………

    Like


  83. i saw an ad for this at Qwest field:

    http://www.eatlikeanalpha.com/

    mmm, beef jerky

    looks like the alpha meme has crossed over

    Like


  84. el chief

    Alpha crossed over in 2008. Heroic women is next.

    Like


  85. ATC I’m pretty sure I felt a Norplant-like device under her upper arm. [editor: ew.] If this is indeed what it was, I think it would be very hard to underestimate her sluttiness

    The dumbest shit I’ve read in a very long time.

    *reaches over to pimp slap ATC*

    f-ing idiot

    What’s up with a woman having to smile and giggle all the time. As long as she is friendly and respectful of other people who cares if she bares her teeth.

    Norplant is a good form of birth control because a woman doesn’t have to remember to take it every day, remove it every three weeks, or have it fall off “unexpectantly”.

    Most men know little to nothing about female birth control yet cry when their girlfriends becomes knocked up.

    Some of you cry about having a woman trap you yet this is a woman who has made it so that she can’t trap you (without difficulty). You should praise women who use this type of b-control instead of calling her a slut. Now I’m starting to see why women like femx are rolling in poon.

    Maybe you would prefer that she run to the doctor to have her womb vacuumed every few months??? Or take the plan B every other day?

    *steps off soapbox*

    Like


  86. One last try from a different angle. Why not jump into the alleged beta-ness with both feet?

    Her: Hey some buddies of mine saw me with you last night and they asked if you were my bf haha…people are gossiping now…but I cleared up the confusion.”

    “yeah, we’re pretty disgusting.”

    Like


  87. Chic,
    Gotta agree with you and Jamilla on this-not only is the comments made about the girl w/Norplant racially charged (ie, “ghetto”, read, Black) but they do beg another question-if all you want is no strings attached sex, isn’t the fact that a Woman has a means to prevent pregnancy a good thing? From what I’ve heard Norplant is highly effective. What’s the problem?

    It occurs to me that the Madonna/Whore thing is very strong among White Men in a way that I find to be unhealthy, especially in our time. The simple fact of the matter is that some of our White brothers’ standards are just too high, and we all know that leads to deep unhappiness. Now of course, because this is coming from someone with a Black face, the response is likely to be something aong the lines of “well Black Men only screw fat chicks” or whatever, but really, on balance, the only guys you see unhappy along these lines are White ones of a certain background. Why is that?

    The Obsidian

    Like


  88. By letting this chick sleep in YOUR BED on HER TERMS, you have stamped your forehead with a big, bold BETA. She now owns you. Don’t be surprised if she pushes the bitch boundaries with you a lot harder and a lot more often than other girls you have dated.

    Depends on the woman. I’ve done this with both of my ex boyfriends and it is a test but it’s a test to let me know what type of man they were. If a guy is too eager to jump my bones the first time I’m at his place, then he is too much of a man for chic noir. I will wonder how many women he has been with. I like men who have a modicum of self-control on his second strongest urge.

    Moving on, the Norplant is a huge slut tell. There’s no other way to put it. Girls with a modicum of intelligence and conscientiousness will choose to take the pill over having a stick buried in their flesh.

    What if the woman can’t swallow pills? What if she forgets to take her pills regularly? What if her medication interacts with her birth control pills? What if she vomited? What if she a physical reaction to the birth control pills she was prescribed?

    Impulsive thrill-seekers. Nymphos. Raw dog lovers.

    Women who take the pill can do all of this and …..

    Like


  89. Mu Chic,
    Gotta agree with you and Jamilla on this-not only is the comments made about the girl w/Norplant racially charged (ie, “ghetto”, read, Black)

    yea I caught that but decided to let it go. It’s par with the course around these parts.

    but they do beg another question-if all you want is no strings attached sex, isn’t the fact that a Woman has a means to prevent pregnancy a good thing?It should be so I don’t understand what he is complaining about but… then again I do.

    From what I’ve heard Norplant is highly effective. What’s the problem?
    The idea that his “lay” doesn’t see him as her snowflake bothers him. The desire to be love and cherished by every woman with a pulse is troublesome for most men.

    Like


  90. *turns off angry chic, returns to sweet chic*

    Anyway, going back to R’s theme in these parts …

    women ain’t shit.

    Like


  91. “Me: I’m too badass to be a mere bf.”

    More like, “what, are you upset I didn’t put out?”

    That actually works. I have slept in chicks beds without showing them my meat torpedo, either because I’m too drunk to drive home, or because I simply didn’t look at them as sexual creatures. The idea that it was actually you who said no kind of drives them nuts. If it doesn’t … who cares? Indifference ain’t really game: it’s just the right way to roll in life. Everything works like this. When you want work, nobody will talk to you. When you’re fat city, everyone wants to give you work.

    Like


  92. So default was sitting in the jacuzzi with his maple syrup and sweet potato delight when dana decided to hop in.

    Like


  93. Chic,
    You know what’s fascinating to me? That Style never adopts the kind of attitudes common in these parts among a lot of guys here. In his book The Game he simply doesn’t seem to have such an attitude. That to me says a lot about what kind of Man one’s dealing with. Style was looking to get laid, the end. All this stuff about what kind of birth control she was using, this, that…its really laughable when you think about it.

    I was talking to Brown Sugah about a related topic the other day and she said the reason why she chose me was because I didn’t come off as needy for pussy, lol. She was right, of course. I’ve never sweated not getting laid.

    Anyway, like I was saying, I’m noticing a real problem here-alot of White guys want same night lays and the like, but at the same time they want pure as the driven snow gals, too. Seems to me that you can’t get both. Something’s gotta give.

    Holla back

    The Obsidian

    Like


  94. Doug Draper said – It think it’s linked to aoefe’s explicitly embracing liking to be submissive, in an active, smart and capable girl kind of way with men who do it for her.

    You do it for me Mr. Draper. 😉

    Like


  95. mu Anyway, like I was saying, I’m noticing a real problem here-alot of White guys want same night lays and the like, but at the same time they want pure as the driven snow gals, too

    I2I mu I2I.

    I think the problem is the more vocal WM here express these thoughts but the more sensible keep quite.

    mu That Style never adopts the kind of attitudes common in these parts among a lot of guys here

    Is style the type to fall in love easily? Does he style need female validation to feel like a man?

    If not, that could explain why he isn’t so judgmental of the women he picks up. Some men fall in love very easily, they are type who would/need to be very cautious. Others have had their hearts broken by a cheater and by cheater I mean brazen “i’ma screw your brother or best friend” type ho.

    Like


  96. Roissy,I’d be interested in hearing your reaction to Ray Gordon’s thoughts/opinions.

    Like


  97. Chic,
    If you haven’t done so already, I would urge you to read The Game. Style just doesn’t come off like so many guys here-I don’t know *why* that is, whether its due to him being so widely travelled, or being slightly older, or what. But for whatever reason, he just doesn’t cme off the same way a lot of the guys do here, and that’s something that needs to be addressed in my view, because it really holds a lot of guys back.

    If you’re approaching a gal for no strings attached sex, then get turned off because you know for a fact she’s using birth control, the problem ain’t with her, it’s with YOU, because you need to get your head right in the first place. And I see a lot of that here, guys who want the sex, but only from gals who’ve only had sex maybe once or twice in their entire lives. Silly stuff like that.

    I keep saying that a lot of White guys have really unrealistic standards and this explains why so many of them are deeply unhappy and so forth. It also explains why scapegoating is so popular around here as well. Over at Ferdinand’s blog, In Mala Fide, we just got finished having a huge “debate” with the SocialCons, and the tone is pretty much the same there-large groups of disaffected White guys who are angry and mad that they aren’t getting the cream of the crop ladies, etc. It’s really all very sad.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  98. Obsidian

    Over at Ferdinand’s blog, In Mala Fide, we just got finished having a huge “debate” with the SocialCons, and the tone is pretty much the same there-large groups of disaffected White guys who are angry and mad that they aren’t getting the cream of the crop ladies

    What are your thoughts on idealistic white men who have taken to chasing smart, socially conservative, and educated black women? I think this alliance has potential. I wrote a post on it; it’s currently top at my blog.

    Like


  99. agreed mu.

    Cless The term “shit test” is overused. A woman who makes fun of her date (playfully) or makes cute jokes is not shit testing a man. Shit testing being rude and inconsiderate, not playful or jocular.

    Exactly and the same could be said for “negs”.

    Doug I think your prejudice against Norplant or it’s successor Implanon is wrong headed.

    I thought you would agree 🙂

    Like


  100. Roissy’s right and feministx is naive.

    The girl in question is prole. But there are still a lot of 7’s in the left half of The Bell Curve. You have to be a 21st-century Jane Goodall and figure out how to get what you want from them.

    Like


  101. One last try from a different angle. Why not jump into the alleged beta-ness with both feet?

    Her: Hey some buddies of mine saw me with you last night and they asked if you were my bf haha…people are gossiping now…but I cleared up the confusion.”

    “yeah, we’re pretty disgusting.”

    Like


  102. Cless,
    Just read your blog post. The following are my thoughts.

    First, I am for complete freedom of association. I have no problem with who a Woman chooses to spend her time with. You’re a Man, she’s a Woman, the end.

    As for larger trends, I honestly don’t see much of what you’re aiming to do occuring much beyond the margins, for a number of reasons. One of them is I think HBD-related. Now I know you have problems with that view, and I respect that. But I am of the view that race is more than a social construct, but its also a biological one. And I think there are real biological differences to take into account on this front here.

    But in principle, no, I have no problem at all with your wanting a Black Woman as a mate, or she wanting you.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  103. What’s your HBD-related reason for the rarity of the white male/black female pair?

    Like


  104. Chic Noir

    Most men know little to nothing about female birth control yet cry when their girlfriends becomes knocked up.

    Don’t you dare include me in that group.

    I’m the first one to call Roissy out on his Norplant/birth control implant=slut diss.

    Which is completely IN character for me.

    Like


  105. Most men know little to nothing about female birth control yet cry when their girlfriends becomes knocked up.

    What’s to know about it except it’s cheap, readily available, and highly effective, and therefore if she gets knocked up, it’s her fault?

    Like


  106. Cless,
    My own view is that Black peoples tend to have higher testosterone levels than do White or Asian peoples, on average, and that this is true for both sexes. This means, for Black Women, that most of them don’t find most White Men as “manly enough” for them. On the flipside, the well known assertiveness/aggressiveness of Black Women comes off as “less feminine”. This is one reason why in my view many White Men tend to gravitate toward Asian Women.

    Roissy has written about this, among quite a few others, including Steve Sailer in his “Is Love Colorblind?” piece.

    Good stuff.

    O

    Like


  107. The last time I had a chick in my bed that pulled the whole “I’m not having sex with you tonight, you know that, right?” card (funny how she DID want me to titty fuck her and cum on her face though) she tells me “I understand if you need to go in the bathroom and do your business”.

    Like some dude is gonna be like “Okay honey, I’m gonna go whack off now like a good boy, be right back!”

    Actually, I’m sure some dude has.

    She got a free pass to stay in my bed that night. There was *enough* sexual contact to justify it, I guess. The next time she was back at my place she got nailed to the mattress though. All’s well that ends well.

    Like


  108. Obsidian,

    Part-black women are hot. ‘Full’-black women are not.

    Like


  109. Obsidian:

    Seems reasonable. I’m talking, in my blog post, about a small subset of black women– upper-middle-class, highly-educated blacks. They seem to have much more refined tastes in men than white American girls; they’re more like European women in this regard. By this, I mean that they tend to like smart, sensitive guys more. It’s white American girls (and ghetto black girls) who are all about the alpha thugs.

    Like


  110. Ray Gordon was a consummate pain in the ass in alt.seduction.fast back in the good old days of usenet.

    Like


  111. Cless,
    It is my view that HBD has a great deal to ay about how the Races do or don’t get on with each other; why, for example, Whites NEED to think a certain way about virtually ALL Blacks, in order to justifiy their views.

    For example, I’ve found that Whites tend to have a monochromatic view of Blacks; and that view is one where just about everyone Black is from the hood. By that I mean, lowclass/underclass behavior, ways of speaking, mannerisms, dress, etc.

    I have said several times that there is a big difference between being “urban” and being “ghetto”. I for example, consider myself cut from the former cloth, and definitely not from the latter.

    I am not “ghetto” in any way-not in terms of comportment, mannerisms, language, or appearance. Yet I’m lumped in w/”ghetto” Blacks when discussions like these come up. It seems very difficult for Whites to make subtle and in some cases, drastic distinctions between the differing types of Blacks in America.

    I find this kind of difficulty, or in some cases outright refusal, with these kinds of distinctions to be quite problematic. Again, for another example, Doug1 always uses words like “smooth” to describe me, then turns around and says that I celebrate “thuggishness” among Black Men. This is what I consider a clear and present example of the difficulty among some Whites to make meaningful and important distinctions among African Americans.

    I say all this because you have stated your preference for a certain *type* of Black Woman-if I may, a Condoleeza Rice type. Would that be fair, in terms of comportment? If so, I would then have this to say:

    That yes, I have found, that among those to partner up with White Men, a certain type of Sista usually gets the head nod. Simply put, she can’t be too “Black”-ie, not have noticeably Black attributes and features. Hence Lucifer’s comment about partially Black Women being “hot” but not “full blooded” Black Women. Let’s say, Oprah for example.

    I’m cool with all of that because, again, I am for complete freedom of association; so long as its the Woman’s choice, made free from any form of duress or coersion, I’m all for it. But, like everything else about a person, such mate selection choices do say something about you.

    Conversely, and I’ve said his elsewhere in response to the idea that Black Men traffic and specialize in “coarse, crude Game”, that a White Woman’s Kryptonite is a smooth, well-spoken, articulate Brotha. We’ve seen it over and over-Sidney Poitier, Quincy Jones, Harry Belefonte, Denzel Washington (who was mentioned in a big writeup earlier this year in the NYT’s Female Sexuality Survey), the list goes on and on, of Black Men who were the epitome of Cool and for whom White Women swooned.

    Yet, when it comes to discussions of Black Men and Game, the ghetto meme is trotted out again. Why is this? I think its because of deepseated reasons on the part of the people being talked to about all this. Let’s face it-White high IQ Beta Males won’t be able to readily compete in such a marketplace. It’s a known fact that Women go most for a blend of high testosterone and intelligence, hence the reason why Barack Obama won so much of the Single White Female Vote.

    Anyway, hope I’ve answered your questions.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  112. Obsidian

    On the flipside, the well known assertiveness/aggressiveness of Black Women comes off as “less feminine”.

    Basically every race and ethnicity tends to find black women as unattractive. Not every member of those others or every black woman, but the tendency isn’t subltle, it’s large.

    Looks are a factor, but East African women tend to fare much better there. Few of whom came to the US historically, as part of the slave trade or otherwise.

    The much bigger factor is personality. I.e. black women are harridan bitches. Big time. many, many black men think so as well. Certainly all black women aren’t. It’s a tendency.

    Hell, go to your local Department of Motor Vehicles.

    Like


  113. @ O

    Style just doesn’t come off like so many guys here-I don’t know *why* that is, whether its due to him being so widely travelled, or being slightly older, or what. But for whatever reason, he just doesn’t cme off the same way a lot of the guys do here, and that’s something that needs to be addressed in my view, because it really holds a lot of guys back.

    Dude, I so agree. I have many theories on why Strauss emanates a totally different vibe from a lot of the posters here…but I really think it kind of comes down to…over-analyzing (that’s supposed to be a chick-trait, boys!)…and bitterness. If you’re going to get into Game to get laid…you have to realize that you’re going to be dealing with women who give it up easily. Unless you’re very lucky, a SRS player is not going to find a perfect little angel to corrupt. Which is fine, right? If you’re in it to get laid, then you should keep your eyes on the prize.

    Like


  114. LilGrl,
    Yes, I agree-the rank bitterness and yea I’ll say it, in some cases out and out misogyny, is very apparent to anyone who’s got eyes, and not just here, this is a persistent problem throughout the Game community. And it’s something that needs to be addressed, if for the simple reason that Women pickup on bitterness in a Man very, very quickly, much moreso than many guys would suspect. So just for practical reasons, these guys need to get their heads right.

    I think a very important part of the Game community is the comraderie and community of Men coming together for a purpose. But in my humble opinion, we don’t really focus on things like this, and we should.

    Look, a lot of guys don’t like to admit that it hurts to be rejected by Women, to fall prey to their machinations, to have so much we’ve been told and invested in, to be a lie. I understand this, more than many may realize. But we have to get this thing straight.

    There’s more I have to say about this, but I have to go now… 😉

    The Obsidian

    Like


  115. on September 14, 2009 at 11:36 pm Virginia Gentleman

    Obsidian says:

    Anyway, like I was saying, I’m noticing a real problem here-alot of White guys want same night lays and the like, but at the same time they want pure as the driven snow gals, too. Seems to me that you can’t get both.

    Is this a variant of the whole Madonna-whore thing that gets bandied about from time to time? I don’t pretend to understand that concept, mostly because I’ve generally heard about it only in passing and my only live experience with it was (vaguely) from the mouth of an angry feminist.

    I’ll adapt a line from Groucho Marx and suggest that any woman who’d sleep with me on the first night out is one that I wouldn’t want to sleep with. There’s got to be time for a background check and general inquiry into the particularities of the woman in question. I suppose that’s a complicated way of saying, “I’ll take the driven snow; it’s far more fun to play in.”

    Like


  116. Chic Noir, I’m curious about you. You are a prolific commenter on both here and Jezebel. How does that work?

    Like


  117. In Response to Virginia Gentleman:

    One aspect of the Prolific-Player-PUA lifestyle I’ve always wondered about is the prevention and management of STDs.

    [It’d be interesting to see ‘The G Manifesto’ write about this as one-night-stands seem to be his area of expertise.]

    I mean, I’m shooting for serial monogamy ala Alpha-Dominance, but I’m forced to wonder how an individual maintains that fast-paced of a lifestyle without contracting the entire Hepatitis-Alphabet… and then Hepatitis-Ampersand to boot.

    Like


  118. Her: Hey some buddies of mine saw me with you last night and they asked if you were my bf haha…people are gossiping now…but I cleared up the confusion.

    Me: Lame…

    Her: Hahaha geez…well I didn’t tell them anything [note: contradicting what her 1st text said]. Hmm, do you mean like a super buddy or what?

    Me: U sleeping over 2nite?

    Her: Hmm, I’m not sure I understand, but if what you’re trying to say is that you don’t want to be tied down, that’s ok because you can do what you want and so can I. =)

    Me: I Dont Care…

    Like


  119. I agree with Obsidian in regards to bitterness being a turn- off for women. Bitterness can be described as latent anger and resentment. I figure those who are bitter are constantly being reminded of a hurt(s) that has a hold on them. The only time bitterness works is when you hook up with an equally bitter person. Water finds its own level. This means the bitter will consistently find women with issues who reinforce what they’ve negatively learned so far. Never ending story. Shitty.

    You want a cool woman? Lose the bitterness and you’ll attract them. How do you lose the bitterness? Expanding your current world view is a good start. Start believing good women exist. Simple.

    Oh you don’t know what bitterness looks like? Here it is: unforgiving and generally negative, critical attitudes.

    If you feel instant irritation or anger to the above – I’d suggest a leeetle self reflection. 😉

    Just sayin….

    Like


  120. Try-hard. end of story.

    Like


  121. on September 15, 2009 at 12:00 am Virginia Gentleman

    Ruby:

    See, that’s the thing. What good is great game and a well-notched bedpost if you’re hit with HIV, HPV or some of the other nasty things that have cropped up since we shook off the oppressive chains of more or less monogamy.

    I don’t have the statistics on-hand but I distinctly recall thinking to myself that, short of some way to procure an instant blood sample and whisk it to a lab for testing, the odds aren’t all that great for well-practiced game that doesn’t add a few pages to my medical chart.

    The mileage of others may vary, though.

    Like


  122. why, for example, Whites NEED to think a certain way about virtually ALL Blacks, in order to justifiy their views.

    As opposed to Blacks who NEED to think a certain way about virtually ALL Whites, in order to justify their views?

    For example, many Blacks tend to have a monochromatic view of Whites, namely that Whitey is a racist oppressor looking for any excuse to keep the Black man down.

    =)

    Like


  123. on September 15, 2009 at 12:12 am HUNGRY HUNGRY HIPPOS YO

    Her: Hey some buddies of mine saw me with you last night and they asked if you were my bf haha…people are gossiping now…but I cleared up the confusion.

    Me: I might be able to fit you into my rotation.

    y/n?

    Like


  124. One last “Game” inquiry for the night:

    For experienced PUAs out there, what have been your observations and experiences when trying to obtain women other than the standard night club/independent urban girl/college chick/etc. for LTRs?

    Specifically girls who are either more chaste, more cultured, more intelligent, more worldly or more exotic than average?

    Like


  125. aoefe

    I agree with Obsidian in regards to bitterness being a turn- off for women.

    I agree too.

    Thankfully what I feel is a sense of fortunateness.

    Your digging me only adds to it.

    Like


  126. aoefe,

    But is the ‘prize’ for not being bitter and cynical worth it?

    Like


  127. on September 15, 2009 at 12:19 am The Fifth Horseman

    Ruby,

    For experienced PUAs out there, what have been your observations and experiences when trying to obtain women other than the standard night club/independent urban girl/college chick/etc. for LTRs?

    Specifically girls who are either more chaste, more cultured, more intelligent, more worldly or more exotic than average?

    That is why the REAL Game is DayGame. Only via daygame will women of high quality present themselves in volume.

    Go to http://www.askjdog.com for some DayGame content.

    Like


  128. Lucifer

    Part-black women are hot. ‘Full’-black women are not.

    It depends of course.

    I’d say that 1/4 black women sometime are but that 1/8 black women usually are. But it depends. Obviously if’s a fatty low end fucker trail, not.

    Like


  129. About STDs:

    In most countries:

    1] Syphilis is not a big issue. The organism is very sensitive to beta-lactams (penicillins/cephalosporins) and tetracyclines/ erythromycins. Since most people in 1st and 2nd world countries use these antibiotics for many other infections, syphilis has become very rare (most gay and black ghetto)

    2] Gonorrhea and Chlamydia are a problem, but both can be avoided by using a condom for penetration. Oral sex can transmit them, but it is far rarer. In any case, get tested often and treat aggressively if infected.

    3] HIV – surprisingly hard to transmit, if the women is well lubed and you are circumscribed. Use condom to be sure and avoid unprotected anal sex. Oral sex has a very low risk.

    4] HBV and HCV- You require some degree of contact with blood to get either. Avoid unprotected penetration.

    5] Warts- The worst cases are caused by less than 5 strains. However over a third of young women are infected with some strain of warts (HPV). Just avoid any woman with obvious or nasty looking warts, as active warts are particularly infective and are often caused by the nastier strains.

    6] Most other uncommon ones (just use condoms)

    7] rarer bacterial ones (avoid anything that does not look and smell right)

    Your best allies in avoiding STDs are condoms, shaved beavers, moderate lighting and the ability to walk away if your spidey sense tingles.

    Like


  130. Lucifer cracked a joke – But is the ‘prize’ for not being bitter and cynical worth it?

    LOL now that cracked me up. I really hope you meant to be funny. Cuz if you did my respect just grew for you dude.

    Like


  131. on September 15, 2009 at 12:42 am HUNGRY HUNGRY HIPPOS YO

    @ ruby

    “One last “Game” inquiry for the night:

    For experienced PUAs out there, what have been your observations and experiences when trying to obtain women other than the standard night club/independent urban girl/college chick/etc. for LTRs?

    Specifically girls who are either more chaste, more cultured, more intelligent, more worldly or more exotic than average?”

    Definitely works for getting their attention and developing initial attraction, but with these types you need some substance, goals, ambitions, and character to get involved in an ltr. That doesn’t mean they won’t get involved in short term relationships with skilled cads, however. Most self described “worldly, intelligent, cultured” chicks are just delusional sex and the city watchers or pampered princesses though.

    Like


  132. Once upon a time I refused to spend the night with my boyfriend. I wanted to go home and be rested for the next day. He insisted I stay and I was equally insistent that I would not have sex with him. He assured me he would only hold me and I could sleep uninterrupted. He was a very convincing man. I got into bed at last but I kept myself fully dressed – jeans still on. He did exactly what Roissy says he himself would do – he molested me- I kept pushing his hands away from various parts of my body. He never once got angry, he knew what I didn’t, I’d give in. Long story short I slept naked…well slept eventually. 😉

    Like


  133. aoefe-

    Yeah.

    Now that’s what I feel kinship with.

    Like


  134. Love that Megan Fox bit. Especially beginning, before he goes over the top with the bag-on-head gag. All he does at first is show more interest in the person next to her than to her, THE STAR!

    Watch her face. She’s utterly baffled that no one is paying attention to her. Then she starts staring white hot hate daggers at the interviewer. This is the way hot women act when you fawn over them. They really, honestly believe deep in their hearts that they are better than everyone and everything around them. It would be disgusting if it were so utterly humorous and easy to deflate. Then it’s kinda cute.

    Like


  135. PA:

    You can, for example, be dating a very young and inexperienced girl with great LTR qualities, in which case, as long as you know sex will eventually happen and that she does want you, but wants to keep a slow pace, it’s OK to sleep with her without sex. Though it’s also important to not let her get too comfy wiht the idea, heh.

    But with a ho — no good girl allowance whatsoever.

    Yes, the basic criterion here should be how she treats you relative to how she’s treated other men previously. If she’s delaying sex, but gave it with less delay to one or more other guys in the past, it’s a fundamentally dishonorable situation and a red flag for any serious relationship. Basically, it means that you’re either not measuring up to that guy in the past or that she’s being dishonest and phony. And this should be judged relative to all of her past experiences, not just average. If she’s ever had sex with a guy she just met, you are indeed humiliating yourself by having to work for it at all, let alone suffering blue balls from her.

    Of course, it’s often impossible to have detailed knowledge of what happened in a girl’s past, but with some skill and luck, it’s possible to make reasonable guesses and conclusions from reputations and rumors, and even to elicit interesting confessions from her. On occasions, I’ve been surprised how some girls who don’t even try to hide their slutty history suddenly attempt to play the good girl who doesn’t put out easily. (Sometimes they will put out once you’ve shown that you’re not buying it, so they decide to drop the act and go for it.)

    Like


  136. Her: Hey some buddies of mine saw me with you last night and they asked if you were my bf haha…people are gossiping now…but I cleared up the confusion.

    I WOULD GO OVER THE TOP OR AGREE WITH HER..

    Me: Good JOb!!I wouldn’t want to be seen with you..haha..I like to keep my options open 🙂

    Like


  137. OT: 80s Betas

    Like


  138. Here is one. I am with a very cute 20 something. There is an age gap. She says to me , “You are older and smarter and richer. For some reason I believe you will not let me get hurt in this.” I have to trust you, actually.” So I said, ‘I got your back, babe”
    Then her milf mom makes a crystal clear proposition. “You want to fuck anytime anywhere? I promise xxx (the daughter) will never know.”
    I pretended I did not hear the question.
    Alpha?, Beta?, Omega Scared of Husband?

    Like


  139. chic noir

    Moving on, the Norplant is a huge slut tell. There’s no other way to put it. Girls with a modicum of intelligence and conscientiousness will choose to take the pill over having a stick buried in their flesh.

    “What if the woman can’t swallow pills?”

    Let’s hope she never has to take antibiotics. Or vitamins. How many people “can’t swallow pills”?

    “What if she forgets to take her pills regularly?”

    Then, exactly like the earlier commenter said, she lacks a modicum of intelligence and conscientiousness.

    “What if her medication interacts with her birth control pills?”

    Norplant would too then.

    “What if she vomited?”

    Uh, what? She vomited that morning, so in a panic she went and got norplant? Are you even trying to make sense?

    Typical woman reasoning. CN started with her conclusion “can’t say anything bad about norplant” then rationalized a bunch of transparent bullshit to justify it.

    Like it or not things we do for whole other reasons send signals to other people. People seem to have gotten angry about the ideas that norplant is (a) a slut sign and (b) low class. Getting angry about it doesn’t change the fact that that’s how having Norplant in your arm is interpreted by people. There are good reasons for people to believe (a) and (b).

    Like


  140. Cless asks, “What’s your HBD-related reason for the rarity of the white male/black female pair?”

    I don’t know what his reason is, but I know what mine is.

    It’s partly about physical strength, and partly about social issues.

    Education and financial success doesn’t cure a physically strong woman of strength. The way she relates to her world is crucially different from physically weaker women. She won’t have certain behaviors people whose women tend to be weaker, would view as feminine, without faking it. It’s not an easy thing to hide.

    Some guys who don’t understand themselves view strong women as “ugly”, but what they really mean is “masculine compared to the women I’m conditioned (for whatever reason) to view as feminine”. In that regard, Black women tend to be the cream of the crop. We’re not usually the top power lifters in the world, but on average, we tend to be physically stronger and have more endurance.

    The resulting social situation as far as dating, is that we will have considerably less tolerance for unmanly behavior because our bar is higher than others. There are exceptions, and many will go on sentiment more than practical concerns, but generally there’s nothing more irksome than an indecisive man. Outside of some ghetto culture, we’re also ususally marriage minded, and slutting around only happens because a woman has absorbed so much negativity that she thinks she can’t do any better…yet the reputation of the hoes ends up dragging us all down.

    So in order to not be perceived as sluts, we have to act like bitches. Otherwise, guys who aren’t Black will think we’re available to them because they don’t get the difference between a woman who is comfortable enough with her sexuality to enjoy dancing, and a woman who will actually have sex with them.

    Then there is fetishization and “white guilt”. In order to be the man in your relationship, you have to be actually interested in a relationship. Once you have that, you can’t give a woman a free pass to bad behavior because some people whose complexion was similar to yours used to legally own some people whose complexion was similar to hers.

    All this isn’t really about Black and White though. I know a couple of women with obvious Viking ancestry who have similar issues. They’re technically overweight, but with relatively low bodyfat, big hands and feet, sturdy builds, and one has blinding blonde hair. Both have ice blue eyes. So it’s kind of a racial thing technically, but more about how it plays out in physical and social compatibility, despite “colorless society” propaganda.

    Color might not have anything to do with it, but race in its truer definition does.

    Like


  141. About the original post, aoefe at 12:57 hits the real answer.

    A woman in your bed is giving consent to persuasion. If you fail to capitalize on the opportunity and don’t persuade her, you will look weak, unmanly or uninterested.

    You’ve got a big hole to dig out of with the texts.

    Like


  142. Yeah, the horse has left the barn.

    Like the man said,

    “By letting this chick sleep in YOUR BED on HER TERMS, you have stamped your forehead with a big, bold BETA. She now owns you. Don’t be surprised if she pushes the bitch boundaries with you a lot harder and a lot more often than other girls you have dated.”

    And that’s exactly what happens. I made this mistake only once, thankfully (I’m a decent learner), but boy, did I feel like a moron for the waste of time.

    At this point it didn’t matter what texted.

    Like


  143. Yeah, the horse has left the barn.

    Like the man said,

    “By letting this chick sleep in YOUR BED on HER TERMS, you have stamped your forehead with a big, bold BETA. She now owns you. Don’t be surprised if she pushes the bitch boundaries with you a lot harder and a lot more often than other girls you have dated.”

    And that’s exactly what happens. I made this mistake only once, thankfully (I’m a decent learner), but boy, did I feel like a moron for the waste of time.

    At this point it didn’t matter what you texted.

    Like


  144. “Specifically girls who are either more chaste, more cultured, more intelligent, more worldly or more exotic than average?”

    Who are these mythical creatures you speak of?

    But seriously…

    Aside from the “chaste” part, which is sometimes dodgy, what’s the difference? There are plenty of cultured, intelligent, worldly and exotic sluts out there. And guess what? They will fuck a guy who’s 1 SD below them in IQ, or less educated, etc. for the shallowest of gina tingle reasons.

    So forget all that bullshit and man up.

    Like


  145. Oh, let me add — you’re falling into the “I don’t measure up” fallacy. Oh, I’m not tall enough or smart enough or whatever for this girl. Forget that bullshit, it is profoundly self-defeating. And forget about going into it with LTR on your mind (because that’s what’s making you fall into this mental trap in the first place.) Just go after it.

    Like


  146. on September 15, 2009 at 5:50 am msexceptiontotherule

    Wouldn’t the gossip between a hairdresser and her friend be….GAY? At least sounds like it..

    Would this be a good time to tell everyone I had a black friend once?
    (technically, I’m still friends with her, though she moved across the country to take care of her mother instead of having a full-time home nurse or having her admitted to a hospice.)

    Oh, and regarding the txt conversation dissected in the original post; she’s not that into you. You may still be able to score, but rest assured if you do she will tell all of her friends that you sucked in bed even if you didn’t because that’s what she’s expected to say after whatever nasty bitch things she told them in the process of informing these friends that you were NOT in a relationship and with what you were wearing alone that night she had enough reasons to make sure she never became exclusive with you.

    That is all.

    Like


  147. It’s easy to say this and that when you’re not that guy, you got to remember that he’s trying to get with her and he probably invested a significant amount of emotion into this thing. The thought process for him is what to say to get her back/to be with me. “I’ll tell the bitch this and that”, but really if she slept in his bed without giving him any poon she has him wrapped her finger. There is not a lot of alpha thinking he can do. The best thing to do is to not put yourself into these situations in the first place. It’s not you that gets taken advantage of, it’s you letting people take advantage of you.

    Like


  148. Hi Tarl,

    You said:
    “Tarl

    Obsidian: why, for example, Whites NEED to think a certain way about virtually ALL Blacks, in order to justifiy their views.

    Tarl: As opposed to Blacks who NEED to think a certain way about virtually ALL Whites, in order to justify their views?

    For example, many Blacks tend to have a monochromatic view of Whites, namely that Whitey is a racist oppressor looking for any excuse to keep the Black man down.”

    O: This is not true, and one measure of proof for that can be found in voting records. Black folk at present, give some 90-plus percent of their votes to the Democratic Party, a Party that until very recently, ALWAYS had a White Male standardbearer. For example, Bill Clinton, Al Gore and John Kerry each got no less than 90% of the Black Vote. If what you say is indeed true, how do you square it with these facts?

    Your response?

    The Obsidian

    Like


  149. In Response to JB:

    My inquiry was meant to stimulate discussion about various types of women; Not some “Mythical Creature” who embodies all of the previously listed positive qualities in tandem.

    While I have much admiration for the seduction artists who are able to obtain-&-maintain a group of SWPL-Sex-&-the-City-Watching-Hipster-Independent-Urban-Grrrls… I’ve come to realize I have no desire for that lifestyle.

    Lately, I’ve been really enticed by Roosh’s and Roissy’s commentary about dating women of different cultures.

    I wanted to see if others had similar experiences or have succeeeded with women of different sub-cultures.

    Like


  150. Several points.

    This month marks one year since I “officially” joined the Roissy in DC forum. I’ve learnd a lot and hopefully taught a bit along the way, w/perhaps the biggest benefit being having met some very interesting people. For this, I am most grateful.

    That said, and to pickup on my points made last night, I continue to be concerned with the persistent and and apparent “Bitterness & Misogyny” problem that I see, not only here at Roissy’s, but it seems, throughout the Game/PUAsphere. In fact, I and several of my brothers were having a debate about this earlier this year, on the question: does Game have an inherent misogynistic bent to it?

    I say no, for Game is only a means to an end. It is up to the practitioner as to how he chooses to use Game. Game in and of itself isn’t misogynistic.

    Yet to the average onlooker, that’s exactly what it looks like, because of this very palpable vibe that emanates from Game-related spaces. And I tink its way past due for more older or experienced or accomplished members of the community to address this.

    I’ve gone on record as saying, several times, that more than anything else, Game is a deeply introspective journey, and that’s someting most Men aren’t accustomed to. In so many ways, we Men, especially now in the age of the New Girl Order, have been cheated out of knowing about real important information and tools to help us navigate our 21st century dating and mating world.

    This is why I stress so strongly that the book The Game be read by anyone looking to understand Game, because Style dicusses all these things using his own life as a case study. And like so many Men, he too knows what it’s like to face stonecold rejection by Women, to be told pretty lies by kith and kin alike, etc, along these lines, and so on. Style’s been there and done that. Yet today, you don’t get one scintilla of bitterness from him. By all accounts, he is a truly happy person, easy to be around, and likeable.

    I think if there’s on major barrier to guys learning Game, its what Aoefe said earlier, the tendency on the part of guys to hold on to the past. The thing about it though, that my brothers have to remember, is that we’ve ALL BEEN THERE. Every single Man you read in this forum, including Roissy himself, has known the sting of rejection by a Woman, and more often than not, quite a few. No one wants to call it such, but it is indeed one of the Rites of Passage on the way to becoming a Man-approaching a Woman for her hand, and being treated like a “Stop” sign or fire hydrant.

    Nor does this magically stop when one becomes conversant with Game. The stings never end.

    What guys like Style, and Mystery, Roissy and others have done, is gone inside; they can’t stop what others, in this case, Women, do to them, but they do have a choice as to how to respond. I know that sounds all hokey and New Agey, but its the truth. Each of these Men and more, have made a deliberate choice to have a different view of things. And, as Mystery tells Style when he orders he completely shave his head bald, that while losing your hair my not be a choice, shaving it all off IS.

    My brother in Game, The Fifth Horseman, has often said that, in order to be successful with Game, you have to be in essence, what he calls an OTB, or Outside The Box thinker. You have to see things differently than others like you would. Otherwise, you’ll only become more frustrated and bitter.

    So, when a Woman rejects me, I feel sorry for HER, not myself. Because I know, especially in Black America, that a Good Man is very hard to find, and I know, for a fact, that I’m among the few. It truly is her loss. And because I have and contine to look inward, it isn’t long before I have a Lady on my arm befitting my stature and ways, that proves my point-often to the previous lady’s chagrin. They say Success cures all ails, and that the sweetest revenge, *is* Success.

    My brothers, I implore you all, to let go of the bitterness. Yu are not only holding yourselves back, but you are in a sense, hurting all of us, too. A great deal of what Women do is on auto pilot, we learn this early on in our studies of Game; why then hold it against them? Personally, I don’t. Not only would it change anything, the truth is we Men do our auto pilot stuff too, and there ain’t a heck of a lot that Women can do about it either.

    So, its a waste of time and emotions. Don’t get me wrong-we Men have feelings that run just as deep as any Woman’s, its just we have prohibitions on when and where and how to express them-and for the most part, I agree with said prohibitions. Nothing’s worse than the sight of a Man who cries at the drop of a hat, or who loses it at every slight. The great thing though, is that we can be taught to keep our feelings in check and to keep in mind a wider perspective. The vast majority of Women, no matter how hard they try, will never be able to do this, at least not for the longterm, without doing some serious damage to themselves.

    So, in closing, again I say: Game is an inner journey. What is it about YOU that makes for a compelling reason as to why a Woman should spend her time with you? Let’s say you come up with a list of five things. Are you actively working to improve them? Would others who know you have the same list? Do other Women who know you on some level-do they say the same things? Remember, being Congruent is key, very, very key. What you say and what you do have to match. Being a high quality guy and also being bitter, don’t match.

    There’s more but I’ll hold here. Let’s leave the past behind, gentlemen, for we face New Day, indeed.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  151. This is not true, and one measure of proof for that can be found in voting records. Black folk at present, give some 90-plus percent of their votes to the Democratic Party, a Party that until very recently, ALWAYS had a White Male standardbearer. For example, Bill Clinton, Al Gore and John Kerry each got no less than 90% of the Black Vote. If what you say is indeed true, how do you square it with these facts?

    Elementary realism. What choice did they have? A choice between two white guys, one of whom appeared to represent their interests better than the other. I don’t think voting for the lesser of two evils in Presidential elections alters the fact that a great many blacks need to view whites in general as racist oppressors in order to justify their other political, economic, and social opinions.

    Like


  152. Celebrity text game from across the pond:

    DESPERATE Jordan begged Peter Andre to take her back in drunken texts just FOUR DAYS before they divorced.
    The first read: “I love you.” The second a minute later stated: “I want you back,” and the third two minutes later asked: “Why won’t you talk to me? We can still make things work.”

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/tv/2637875/Jordans-love-texts-to-Peter-Andre.html

    Like


  153. Tarl,
    If what you say about the general view of Blacks is true, then woulnt it make more sense to simply sit out the elections, like other ethnic groups have done throughout American history? Given the support Bill Clinton had among African Americans, it didn’t appear that he was simply getting a pragmatic vote. Until Obama came along, Clinton was the closest African Americans had to a “Black” President.

    Also, you have not given any evidence to back up your claim, as I have done wrt the reverse in this very forum. Please explain?

    Thanks.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  154. Obsidian, how did Bill Clinton (by proxy of Mrs. Clinton) do with African Americans against Obama?

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  155. woulnt it make more sense to simply sit out the elections

    No, because the Democrats are promising them stuff. There is no contradiction at all between generally hating whitey and voting for white politicians who promise handouts.

    Also, you have not given any evidence to back up your claim, as I have done wrt the reverse in this very forum.

    Which claim?

    Like


  156. Some years ago, I was hanging out with this girl. We had mutual friends, and the chemistry had been building over a few weeks. I wound up at her place really late. We drank and talked until maybe 6:00 a.m. I told her I needed to get some sleep, in her bed, because her roommate would have been upset to find me on the couch.

    In her bed, she said, “we’re not going to have sex, you know.”

    I said, “that’s okay, we can just snuggle.”

    That’s when she jumped on my rocket, with considerable glee. We dated for a couple of months.

    Like


  157. Ruby:

    OK. I see what you meant, but to be blunt — again — it makes no fucking difference whether a woman has an IQ of 108 or 138, whether she has an exquisite eye for B&W photography or watches Sex In the City, etc.

    I speak from experience. They do not discriminate. They respond to alpha regardless of IQ (within reason), status, aesthetic sensibilities, etc.

    A particularly blatant example is a natural I knew once who had a virtual harem of older women by age 16. He was of slightly above average intelligence, had the most infantile artistic tastes, obviously no educational/occupational status, etc.

    He was banging a future CS prof, a talented artist and some other random trash. So trust me, there is no difference.

    How intelligent a woman, e.g. is forbiddingly high to need a special sort of game? 140 IQ? 150? How many of those do you run into? The only difference I’ve noticed is greater use of intelligence-as-bitch-shield because of improper gaming. If that’s what you’re asking, (as in specific tactical advice) then remember that those types of women are more likely to use their higher qualities as forms of shit tests/bitch shields which are penetrated by traditional application of game.

    Like


  158. Am I the only woman, who finds this blog to be quite handy? It’s like reading the other teams playbook.

    Like


  159. Obsidian,

    You make some really good points. They are an important corrective to the vitriol that pollutes a lot of the comments here. Women are not the enemy….you are your own worst enemy, and anger will get you nowhere.

    You know all those bitter, 30-something shrews out there who think they deserve the perfect man and the perfect job, and don’t understand why they can’t have it all? The kind who show up on dates with checklists, even though their baby clock is pounding in their ears, and they are starting to look rough around the edges? The kind who are vapid or career-obsessed (or both), and don’t the least bit of womanly charm or interest in household duties?

    Don’t be them. Be better than them. Bring them up to your level. Confidence, optimism, and a fun-loving spirit will take you far. Women will change for the man they love. But they won’t fall in love with bitterness.

    Like


  160. Beta of the month- kanye west.

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  161. “Am I the only woman, who finds this blog to be quite handy? It’s like reading the other teams playbook.”

    LOL. “Be alpha, don’t be beta.” You know all our secrets now.

    Like


  162. “Beta of the month- kanye west.”

    Nah…that was pretty close to gayfish/diva worshipping territory.

    Like


  163. Oh, this is a great quote:

    Fitty-cent on Oprah:

    ““She’ll have Kanye West on her show. I think middle America would rather have they kids be gay, than have them aggressive.”

    He’s down with Roissy.

    Like


  164. “Beta of the month- kanye west”

    no doubt…

    Everytime Kanye pulls a stunt like this…he looks so awkward and uncomfortable

    Like


  165. JB,
    Gotta give you mad dap for your comments and advice to Ruby. Spot ON. And this is coming from someone who is where Ruby wants to be.

    Smart gals most definitely will use their intelligence to shit test you, in fact I recently wrote about that here in the forum. I’ll go dig it up and repost it here so Ruby can see it.

    Its far easier to run Game on smart gals that not so bright ones. That’s not me saying it, that’s guys like Mystery and Style saying it. And I’ve found it to be true. The higher their IQ, the wider they’ll spread your legs for you. Simple as that.

    O

    Like


  166. On Kanye’ West:

    Can’t say I’ve ever been a big fan of the guy. I liked some of his earlier work, the first two albums or so, but after that, nah. Too avant garde for a straightahead, hardcore old school hip hopper like me.

    Aside from that, I remember when he made those remarks about GWB during Katrina. The only rapper I recall saying something in opposition to him was 50 Cent, who openly disagreed with West. 50’s also been to Iraq to perform for the troops, I understand. Don’t know if that’s the case for Kanye’

    As for Oprah, I recall both 50 and Ludacris being involved in some kind of dustup wrt her. Luda wanted to get on her show, but 50 couldn’t care less one way or another. Got an instant fan outta me right then and there.

    Now I hear Obama’s gotten in on the act, calling West a “jackass” for whatever he’s said and done recently. I don’t follow the guy’s comings and goings so I really don’t know what he’s up to. Anyone know what happened?

    O

    Like


  167. I think there may be an element of strategic planning in regards to Kanye’s VMA stunt. Viacom would be involved. Interestingly Jay Leno has him scheduled for an interview the next day etc etc. (booked prior to the incident). Taylor doesn’t really suffer because new fans will develop for her -poor little kitten. Beyonce looks like a hero with a halo (ya pun intended). Kanye loses no points because he’s done this stuff before and he’s going on tour with Lady GaGa who will draw on her own. I need to get a job in the entertainment business. Just sayin…

    Like


  168. @ aoefe

    Kanye didn’t have an interview scheduled the next day. He was scheduled to perform since it was Jay Leno’s first episode of his new show. Other than that though, it’s definitely possible. What person would walk down the red carpet with a bottle of Henny.

    Like


  169. aoefe: that’s an interesting thought. Kanye West = wrestling supervillain; the crowd gets to boo, gets his name in the papers…

    Like


  170. O: repost that, definitely.

    In my experience very high IQ women will do some fucked up neurotic shit to get your attention, like pretend they can’t solve some homework problem and ask you to help (when they can run circles around you in a subject.) A combination of high intelligence and emotional neediness/craving for attention proves for some hilarious hijinks.

    Like


  171. Dear Steve Johnson,

    you have no idea what you’re talking about. And I’ll tell you why.

    “How many people “can’t swallow pills”?

    I don’t have an exact number for you but there are people with dysphagia who have difficulty swallowing pills and have to take liquid supplements.

    “What if she forgets to take her pills regularly?”

    Then, exactly like the earlier commenter said, she lacks a modicum of intelligence and conscientiousness.

    So I guess you’ve never forgotten anything in your whole life.

    “What if her medication interacts with her birth control pills?”

    Norplant would too then.

    Not necessarily. There are a variety of pills with different combinations of estrogen, progesterone, and other chemicals that suppress ovulation or do other things to stop a woman from getting pregnant. They created different types of pills because women have different types of medical needs.

    “What if she vomited?”

    Uh, what? She vomited that morning, so in a panic she went and got norplant? Are you even trying to make sense?

    If a woman has the flu she might vomit. If a woman gets food poisoning she might vomit. If a woman gets nauseaus from sailing she might vomit. We live in the real world where women sometimes get sick.

    People seem to have gotten angry about the ideas that norplant is (a) a slut sign and (b) low class.

    I wondered the exam same thing about Roissy. Why was there so much vitriol and anger that a women would prefer or need some other form of bc besides the pill? He seemed abnormally angry and perturbed, I would say.

    Like


  172. pay as much attention to male commentary on birth control (except condoms) as most men here do on woman’s advice on getting girls. Generally, men know what their last gf told them.

    Like


  173. Jamilla,
    Let me piggyback on your comments/questions to Steve Johnson and those who share his views, with this simple question:

    IF your goal is to get No Strings Attached sex from a Woman, what difference would it make as to what form of birth control she uses? I’m putting aside the flagrant racial foul here for a second. I want to know what difference it makes here.

    Now of course, if your goal is a LTR, that’s a different matter. But as Jamilla said, Roissy and a few others, seemed to have a violent reaction to the Norplant thing. So I’m very curious.

    Hoping to get some straight answers.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  174. What’s the name of the book that style wrote? Sorry i’m a noob.

    Like


  175. “Roissy and a few others, seemed to have a violent reaction to the Norplant thing. So I’m very curious.”

    More like a hypocritical reaction….or the pot calling the kettle black in this case.

    Like


  176. JB,

    It’s about knowing exactly what’s going on…turning a neg into denial. Shit testing to hire standards. Holding out on sex when he’s in your bed until until he says, “I’m out of here”..and then making a booty call to the ex. It’s all about the next step, and knowing about how to keep the game going. ;0)

    A

    Like


  177. Sorry! “Higher Standards” I need a nap…

    Like


  178. Jamila

    “How many people “can’t swallow pills”?

    I don’t have an exact number for you but there are people with dysphagia who have difficulty swallowing pills and have to take liquid supplements.

    Yeah, that’s probably it. Norplant sales are driven by women who can’t swallow pills and not by women who are too stupid and lack the conscientiousness to take a pill every day.

    Not necessarily. There are a variety of pills with different combinations of estrogen, progesterone, and other chemicals that suppress ovulation or do other things to stop a woman from getting pregnant. They created different types of pills because women have different types of medical needs.

    Thanks for making my argument for me. There are dozens of varieties of pills including some, I’m sure, with the same blend of hormones as in norplant. If she can take norplant she can take the pill.

    If a woman has the flu she might vomit. If a woman gets food poisoning she might vomit. If a woman gets nauseaus from sailing she might vomit. We live in the real world where women sometimes get sick.

    And what the fuck does this have to do with picking norplant over the pill?

    I wondered the exam same thing about Roissy. Why was there so much vitriol and anger that a women would prefer or need some other form of bc besides the pill? He seemed abnormally angry and perturbed, I would say.

    Vitriol yes. Anger I didn’t see. Norplant is low class. I’ve fucked dozens of non-low class women and I’ve never known one to have norplant. Not one.

    Obsidian:

    IF your goal is to get No Strings Attached sex from a Woman, what difference would it make as to what form of birth control she uses?

    Because it tells you something about her that will help you when figuring out how to get her into bed.

    Read the original post for an explanation of how you can use this knowledge.

    Like


  179. Doug1 Don’t you dare include me in that group.
    I’m the first one to call Roissy out on his Norplant/birth control implant=slut diss.
    Which is completely IN character for me.

    I didn’t sir. I gave you two couple for speaking out against the norplant/birth control=slut diss.

    Like


  180. MU This means, for Black Women, that most of them don’t find most White Men as “manly enough” for them.
    Those white ethnics sure do come off as manly to chic noir and other blk women whom I’ve spoken too .

    Mu On the flipside, the well known assertiveness/aggressiveness of Black Women comes off as “less feminine”.
    Ever been around East or West African women? They are certainly more feminine that your average American woman of any race/ethnicity.

    Mu That yes, I have found, that among those to partner up with White Men, a certain type of Sista usually gets the head nod. Simply put, she can’t be too “Black”-ie, not have noticeably Black attributes and features
    This isn’t true MU. It’s what people who haven’t did the digging think. Just go to one of those BW/WM blogs and you will see the gamut of BM with WM. Pull up a picture of Alec Wek and her boyfriend.

    Like


  181. A-Bax

    So you know who, have you heard of this thing called “human nature”? It’s really quite fascinating.

    Selection bias causes PUAs to erroneously believe that all women shit test.

    News flash: game is not just about hitting bar sluts.

    That’s mostly what it’s about.

    “Quality women” v. “non-quality women” is not a binary distinction. You guys seem to suffer from the basic, default madonna-or-whore vision of femininity. On this view, non-quality women shit-test, sleep around, are crass, and are susceptible to the machinations of a PUA. On the other hand, quality women don’t shit-test, only sleep with men they love, are elegant, and are too smart/sophisticated to fall for any PUA trickery.

    I don’t see anything wrong with this distinction.

    But no chick whose libido has a pulse is categorically immune to game. For pedestal-ers, this is an inconvenient truth, and they rail against it.

    I’m categorically immune to women I’m not interested in having a long-term relationship with, so there’s no reason why women can’t do the same.

    It’s bordering on a tautology: i.e., “good” girls are only interested in intimate (I’m assuming you mean with an emotional component) relationships. When their behavior suggests otherwise – as in sleeping with a man we might be inclined to call a PUA, they’ve been “overtly misled”.

    Maybe…or maybe they answered the call of the gina tingle.

    They were either misled or they weren’t good girls. Simple as that.

    lurker

    tjf is here! tjf, we found another ignoramous for you to buff-fuck hampsters with! Welcome Zunder to your star wars-themed room above your mother’s basement, where Islamic history is a lie!

    I see you’re still as delusional as ever.

    Cless Alvein

    PUAs only get good girls to sleep with them when they overtly mislead them into believing an intimate relationship is there, and that’s a lot of work.

    It also stops being game and turns into full-blown deception, which is to say that the PUA abandons game because it’s determined to be ineffective.

    Obsidian

    For “You Know Who”: you often have derided Game as the preserve of those who only get lowclass Women. That’s fine-so could you please outline your method of getting a high quality Women? From First Contact through to Consumation? I am very interested in learning more as to how you do it. Please share.

    I have told you many times before that there is no “method.” You can have “methods” when you’re looking for sluts to bang for the night, but a real relationship is different.

    I’ve gone on record as saying, several times, that more than anything else, Game is a deeply introspective journey, and that’s someting most Men aren’t accustomed to. In so many ways, we Men, especially now in the age of the New Girl Order, have been cheated out of knowing about real important information and tools to help us navigate our 21st century dating and mating world.

    And is the 21st century dating world worth navigating? Doesn’t seem that way to me.

    No one wants to call it such, but it is indeed one of the Rites of Passage on the way to becoming a Man-approaching a Woman for her hand, and being treated like a “Stop” sign or fire hydrant.

    That has nothing to do with being a man.

    My brother in Game, The Fifth Horseman, has often said that, in order to be successful with Game, you have to be in essence, what he calls an OTB, or Outside The Box thinker.

    Bargain bin nihilism isn’t very far outside the box, and PUAs are rather poor at using their brains anyway.

    Like


  182. Kanye West is slightly below Usher and Akon in the pussy-moistering effects on night clubs

    Like


  183. TJF

    it is one thing being a troll. It is even worse being a prolix troll

    Like


  184. Jamila,

    We’ll never understand exactly why these men target norplant. But I think it’s their focus to make themselves feel better about their own whoring and disease riddled bodies. One more reason to justify their hate, anger and poor behavior. Never did they mentioned the patch, IUD, or depo shot. Each being similar to the norplant….the common thread is each one gives a woman the ability to control reproduction and sex. Within that men hold anger and resentment. It has allowed a free market of out of control sex, where lower class males like themselves starve and I mean absolutley starve for their sex needs, going years without anything. They create isolation for themselves, and grow in anger, and this is where the “game” came in….it has allow men to gain some ground in control over reproduction and sex. It makes them feel good to label women, gives them back the control they lost. I wouldn’t even bother to argue with him, I’m sure he doesn’t really give a shit about BC…he just enjoys creating a label that will give certain women a bad name, and enjoys making you squirm over whether or not it’s true…..it doesn’t matter…all that matters to him is bloating his own ego, and status up by trying to name certain BC using women as whores or sub standard….I’m babbling….you get..

    A

    Like


  185. Mu Yet, when it comes to discussions of Black Men and Game, the ghetto meme is trotted out again. Why is this?

    Good old fashioned jealousy and trolling.

    MU Simply put, she can’t be too “Black”-ie, not have noticeably Black attributes and features. Hence Lucifer’s comment about partially Black Women being “hot” but not “full blooded” Black Women.

    Who cares what Lucifer thinks? He is one of three billion who puts his pants on one leg at a time like the rest of us.

    Doug 1 Basically every race and ethnicity tends to find black women as unattractive

    I’ve never had any problems and I am golden brown blk woman with natural hair. Take blk women out of America and things change GREATLY. I’ve never come across a board for blk women that is quite like this one. So if blk women are bottom of the barrel, most don’t seem to think they are.

    Like


  186. Doug The much bigger factor is personality. I.e. black women are harridan bitches. Big time. many, many black men think so as well. Certainly all black women aren’t. It’s a tendency.
    Hell, go to your local Department of Motor Vehicles.

    Personality does count, I will give you that. Most of the men here seem to deny that but you mentioned it so I will give you a few points for doing so.

    Now as far as the department of motor vehicles go… If you can’t use the same alpha charm to work on those women that you use of the women of this board then what??? A true alpha can take the hardest most bitter 50 old withered ovaries having woman and make her swoon

    Like


  187. discussing black women in this blog feels like that last whisky around 6 AM. You know you shouldn´t, you know you´ve had enough, you know the beneficts of doing it were exausted in the first times you did it

    yet it happens

    Like


  188. To all those who say Game is “misogynistic” in any way, shape, or form: You are fucking morons.

    What does game do? It makes ginas tingly and wet; therefore, women LIKE AND WANT IT.

    It would be like coming home to a woman who was dressed in lingerie, serving you a hot meal, with a cold beer, who proceeds to give you a blowjob, then fuck you like an animal, and say “She’s a man-hater!”

    It doesn’t make sense.

    As to the “What difference does birth control make” question: When you start watching large groups of people, patterns start emerging. For example, every woman who has a tattoo in her teens, twenties, or thirties is a slut and a psycho. Exceptions are so rare as to be non-existent. Women in their 40s and 50s getting a tattoo are probably just psycho.

    It is behooven for older men here to point out to younger men the tell-tale signs of sluts. Why?

    BECAUSE YOU CAN’T TURN A WHORE INTO A HOUSEWIFE!

    Most young men have never been told that. Indeed, due to feminist influx, they believe that a whore CAN become a housewife. Poor bastards!

    You know, I don’t go to knitting websites, and talk on their forums about how useless knitting is. I don’t go on arborist websites, and talk about how I hate planting trees. What kind of sado-masochistic cunts (and here I refer to both genders) are you to come here and display your ignorance? Your attempted multiplication of said ignorance?

    Remember this: “misogynists” are MADE, not born. Do you think it a coincidence that, 50 years ago when women were more feminine, there were less “misogynists”?

    One final OT comment: Isn’t it interesting that if a hobby makes a woman’s gina tingle, she’s all for it, but if it doesn’t, she hates it?

    Like


  189. Steve Johnson said:

    Yeah, that’s probably it. Norplant sales are driven by women who can’t swallow pills and not by women who are too stupid and lack the conscientiousness to take a pill every day.

    Norplant sales are driven are by women who don’t want to get pregnant, same as sales of bc pills.

    Thanks for making my argument for me. There are dozens of varieties of pills including some, I’m sure, with the same blend of hormones as in norplant. If she can take norplant she can take the pill.

    So youre sure that some have the same blend of hormones as Norplant, huh? Ok, why don’t you tell us what pills those are?

    If a woman has the flu she might vomit. If a woman gets food poisoning she might vomit. If a woman gets nauseaus from sailing she might vomit. We live in the real world where women sometimes get sick.

    And what the fuck does this have to do with picking norplant over the pill?

    Wow, you’re slow. If she vomits then the pill that was in her stomach is no longer effective because it has not had time to be absorbed. Therefore, a woman who takes a pill and then vomits it back up before absorption is practically on no bc at all. Norplant avoids problems having to do with mal or incomplete absorbtion in the digestive tract. (Another reason that not all woman can take bc pills) A woman on Norplant is less likely to get pregnant than a woman on the pill making it a more effective form of bc.

    Vitriol yes. Anger I didn’t see. Norplant is low class. I’ve fucked dozens of non-low class women and I’ve never known one to have norplant. Not one.

    Your logic-if you want to call it that-doesn’t follow. You have not had sex with enough women (despite your having sex with dozens of them, and thats just the nice girls, who knows how many “sluts” were in the mix) to be able to deduce all non-low class women don’t use Norplant. If you’ve ever had sex with a “slut” who was on the pill then you’ve demolished your own argument.

    Like


  190. Obsidian

    I’m putting aside the flagrant racial foul here for a second.

    What flagrant racial foul? How PC can you get?

    Seriously, what kind of women use Norplant? Ghetto trash. Impulsive thrill-seekers. Nymphos. Raw dog lovers. Recently divorced girls who plan to live it up with all the random cock they missed when they got married young.

    I was the first to call Roissy out on his prejudice against Norplant or it’s successor, Implanon. Which I reiterate.

    However that statement is not a flagrant racial foul but perfectly OK. Roissy isn’t implying that all blacks are ghetto trash or even that all who live in the ghetto are trash, but rather that ghetto trash do exist and according to him are more likely to be on Norplant. As are four other categories of women. As I said I disagree strongly with his diatribe on Norplant but I also call BULLSHITE on your calling that a “flagrant racial foul”

    Like


  191. And from the information that I looked up about Norplant, its unlikely that this what that woman had since Norplant hasn’t been marketed here in quite some time.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norplant

    However, I am looking forward to getting Roissy’s opinion on womens choice of bc methods, if he ever does the post.

    Also, maybe Steve Johnson will fill us in on his highly articulate and exponentially intelligent explanations of what type of women choose what type of bc control.

    Like


  192. chic noir

    I didn’t sir. I gave you two couple for speaking out against the norplant/birth control=slut diss.

    Yeah, I noticed that after I posted. Sorry. (Though I wasn’t really dissing you, just distinguishing myself from your generalization.)

    Like


  193. Armestris

    Yes, you are babbling. But it is still worthwhile to give a response, imho.
    Men have never imagined that they were “in control” of sex & reproduction. Far from it. But once, a few decades ago, most men believed that women were invested in a fundamental bargain with men. That is, if a man proved himself to be a decent provider who showed a willingness to look after the interests of women and children some worthwhile woman would sincerely want to fuck him.
    Women have spent the last few decades teaching men about the stupidity of believing that.
    So, nowadays women are still in control of sex, etc., as always. But they are much more on their own than previously and this change will turn out to be irreversible.

    Like


  194. @aoefe- I once wrote Whiskey a heart felt abet grammatically incorrect letter about how his bitterness was a major turnoff for women. He preceded to write a 10 paragraph comment ALL CAPS to me calling me everything but a child of God .

    @doug- Mr N wants you to stop flirting with his woman. He doesn’t share buddy.

    @ msexceptiontotherule- that is our culture. WE prefer to take care of elderly.

    @ jamila- big hug

    Vladimer If she’s ever had sex with a guy she just met, you are indeed humiliating yourself by having to work for it at all, let alone suffering blue balls from her.
    So if a woman made the mistake one time, from then on out she should give it up on the first date .

    Like


  195. Steve Johnson’s response to my list of reasons why some women don’t take BC pills Then, exactly like the earlier commenter said, she lacks a modicum of intelligence and conscientiousness SMH

    Uh, what? She vomited that morning, so in a panic she went and got norplant? Are you even trying to make sense?

    No idiot, you don’t get it. Vomiting a BC pill could open her up to pregnancy. If she is on Norplant, you don’t have that to worry about.

    Steve J Typical woman reasoning. CN started with her conclusion “can’t say anything bad about norplant” then rationalized a bunch of transparent bullshit to justify it.

    No, I was giving you a list of reasons why Norplant is a better form of BC than the pill. I know why it’s difficult for you to understand but that’s okay.

    JB There are plenty of cultured, intelligent, worldly and exotic sluts out there. And guess what? They will fuck a guy who’s 1 SD below them in IQ, or less educated, etc. for the shallowest of gina tingle reasons
    SMH, if iq and 1,2 or 3 SD is going thru your mind when you’re doing a meet& greet, you’ve out, game over!

    Like


  196. doug Yeah, I noticed that after I posted. Sorry. (Though I wasn’t really dissing you, just distinguishing myself from your generalization.)

    I was 90% sure you wound’t agree before I read your response. Long term birth control should be encouraged for the urban set who like to bang and run.

    @RUM- It’s not as bad as you make it out to be. Believe me it isn’t.

    Virginia Gentleman I’ll adapt a line from Groucho Marx and suggest that any woman who’d sleep with me on the first night out is one that I wouldn’t want to sleep with. There’s got to be time for a background check and general inquiry into the particularities of the woman in question.

    *collective swoon from the ladies of chateu Roissy,even dana *

    Like


  197. * Chic Noir, I’m curious about you. You are a prolific commenter on both here and Jezebel. How does that work?

    Not any more, they kicked me off after I made a comment about a young lady who hosts a sex show(covering sexual technique) with her mom. I called the two of them sickening and was banned two minutes later. I can’t find a common ground with either gender.

    Like


  198. Seeking Alpha

    How about incongruent body language.

    Yeah probably some type of B. You alpha effect will be dulled. How important that is will depend on how tough she is and what further impressions you make.

    I think it’s awfully tough to keep a whole panolply of this stuff in your conscious, rational, mind all the time. You can slowly add additional alpha body language to what you do. But you can also just OBSERVE serious alphas and how they carry themselves and learn more organically that way. As well it’s important to BELIEVE you’ve become, or have uncovered the always latent, solid alpha in you. To own the role. Like an actor. To live it. That’s the best way of faking it till you make it.

    Like


  199. gig

    it is one thing being a troll. It is even worse being a prolix troll

    Fascinating. Tell me more about your life as a troll.

    Like


  200. One more thing about Norplant and it’s successor Implanon.

    Historically Norplant was pushed especially hard in poorer communities. Doctors and public health officials did so frankly in significant part because there’s no forgetting to take the pill problem with Norplant and that statistically did happen more often in poorer communities including black ones.

    So it does have a downscale rep to it.

    That shouldn’t go to whether it’s a good method of BC however. It should generally be preceded by a BC pill using the same hormones and so far as possible a similar dosage of them, because it takes longer to remove the implant than to stop taking the pill if side effects are bad for the particular woman.

    I’m a fan or Implanon for ooops pregnancy prevention reasons. There’s no subconscious forgetting to take Implanon. Taking it out is a very deliberate act, requiring an appointment and waiting for that to roll around.

    Like


  201. Rum,

    Are you trying to neg me? Weak….no gina tingles.

    “Yes, you are babbling. But it is still worthwhile to give a response, imho.”

    A

    Like


  202. Jamil

    And from the information that I looked up about Norplant, its unlikely that this what that woman had since Norplant hasn’t been marketed here in quite some time.

    Implanon is it’s successor and it is currently sold in the US.

    http://www.implanon-usa.com/Consumer/index.asp?C=58664400719927430556

    Like


  203. In Response to JB:

    Dude, I appreciate the anecdotes about low socio-economic status Naturals who have stepped outside their class and into some top flight girls, but again, what I’m asking is for is PUAs here to retell anecdotes and techniques about stepping out of the range of MAINSTREAM girls and succeeding in the ranks of sub-cultures or alternative cultures.

    In Response to Obisdian:

    What have been your experiences with advantages and disadvantages of various pick-up scenarios as a black man?

    As I apply the ‘Essence of Alpha’ more and more, I’m finding that folks around me seem to be more ‘shook’ and fearful than average.

    I wouldn’t say that this is a negative side-effect [it is actually quite amusing]; But I can’t help but wonder about what other folks in similar situations see as the “proper application” of this new found aura?

    In Response to The G Manifesto:

    Much obliged to you for your suggestion in a previous post about casually using toothpicks in lieu of cigarettes to draw positive attention to yourself.

    I’ve special-purchased a particularly strong flavored and sweet smelling type (Thursday Plantation Australian Tea Tree Oil Chewing Sticks) that have been working great for conversation and image.

    In Response to Seeking Alpha:

    13D?

    Like


  204. Chic Noir says, “‘MU This means, for Black Women, that most of them don’t find most White Men as “manly enough” for them.’
    Those white ethnics sure do come off as manly to chic noir and other blk women whom I’ve spoken too .”

    They pretty much have to be. The only exceptions I’ve seen are (usually domineering women with control issues) those who have a particular thing for “harmless” men. That creeps me out when it’s not in a BDSM context.

    “‘Mu On the flipside, the well known assertiveness/aggressiveness of Black Women comes off as “less feminine”.’
    Ever been around East or West African women? They are certainly more feminine that your average American woman of any race/ethnicity.”

    That depends on your idea of feminine. A woman who can run 5 km. without breaking much of a sweat, and/or can carry 35+ kg. of dead weight on her head or her back is not going to be feminine the same way a woman who can barely walk 1 km or lift 10 kg.

    Her kids aren’t even going to know what a stroller is for if she is the richest woman living in her gated community.

    The strength differential is still going to be low, regardless of how feminine the woman feels or behaves as far as normal social interaction. She can be as physically perfect (as in actually optimal in physical ability and fertility, with all the good markers thereof, not media pretty) and submissive in the good way as Oshun incarnate, and men who can’t handle her, or who were raised by such men and fell for the hype, will perceive her as masculine.

    It’s a kind of defense mechanism against the truth, which is inconvenient, so I won’t mention it here…just suffice to say it’s a good thing because it’s a self cancellation that prevents a mismatch.

    When those natural checks are removed, worse things happen than immediate rejection. So I don’t want to hear “Black is beautiful” from a White guy I’m considering dating. I would rather hear, “You remind me of my favorite aunt Hildigarde I couldn’t beat in an arm wrestle until I was 16,” or, “I’m going to Romania to hunt for a month. Be a dear and walk my dogs and dust my weights while I’m gone.” Signs he’s more butch than me, and comes from a family of strong but mentally balanced women tell me something good. Regurgitation of rainbow world song and dance is great at work, but for dating life it tells me either nothing, or something bad.

    “‘Mu That yes, I have found, that among those to partner up with White Men, a certain type of Sista usually gets the head nod. Simply put, she can’t be too “Black”-ie, not have noticeably Black attributes and features’
    This isn’t true MU. It’s what people who haven’t did the digging think. Just go to one of those BW/WM blogs and you will see the gamut of BM with WM. Pull up a picture of Alec Wek and her boyfriend.”

    That’s kind of normal in Europe, but it’s not so normal in the U.S. I have noticed, in the few WM/BF pairings I’ve seen, that guys who are still in touch with their home culture tend to like Black women who are more natural. I think the reason for that is because they have their own, and appreciate someone who has their own too.

    Without certain elements of media programming, there is a kind of a line between trying to look nice and trying to trade up, that a guy will be conscious of. Chemical relaxers, once a European guy sees what goes into that, is crossing that line. He’ll wonder why a woman feels it’s worth it to actually harm herself for straight hair, and suggest alternatives like extensions. Some don’t even like those.

    Like


  205. Ghost of Nicole

    The strength differential is still going to be low, regardless of how feminine the woman feels or behaves as far as normal social interaction. She can be as physically perfect (as in actually optimal in physical ability and fertility, with all the good markers thereof, not media pretty) and submissive in the good way as Oshun incarnate, and men who can’t handle her, or who were raised by such men and fell for the hype, will perceive her as masculine.

    Ah, this one is a classic of feminism. A bitchy and annoying woman is just someone men “can’t handle.” Of course.

    Like


  206. @nicole- A woman can be physically strong but still feminine. Christine Arron &Patricia Girard former French sprinters were very strong but very feminine. Linda Murray, a popular blk bodybuilder was very strong looking but still very feminine and warm.

    A woman who can lift 50 lbs is no less feminine than one who can only lift 20 lbs. I don’t think any of the people here are arguing that point. There are mannerisms, gestures, a way of walking, tone and inflection of voice, posture, a way of dressing, etc.. that tell the difference between a feminine and more masculine woman.

    Like


  207. Best reponse to any shit test – regardless:

    “your gay” then silence.

    Try it

    – Im not sure I can do tonight – maybe next week…
    – (you) your gay.

    – Dont order me around (reponse to assertive game).
    – your gay.

    It really shows you don’t give a f*ck.

    She will come back to you.

    Like


  208. YKW misfired, “Ah, this one is a classic of feminism. A bitchy and annoying woman is just someone men “can’t handle.” Of course.”

    Note the word “submissive” in the selection you quoted.

    A strong, submissive woman will still get classed as masculine by a man who is weaker than her and can’t handle *himself* around her. It’s basically the same reaction as when a man is around any brand of incredibly superior individual, only more confusing because it’s a female, and guys don’t like feeling inferior to females. This is very natural, and as I said before, a good thing in my opinion. It’s a natural check against one of us getting entangled with a weaker man, which would be something like, in all honesty, polluting our progeny.

    In order to compensate, a guy whose strength differential is lower, had better have a higher IQ, some rockin’ charisma, or something, to make a blip on the radar.

    PC culture tells us that we’re all equal. We are not all equal. Some people are better than others, and more fit to walk this earth.

    Africans were bought and sold partly on the basis of physical superiority. Whatever ugliness Americans see in us is usually based on markers of that superiority. It’s the fear.

    There’s the same fear when American guys see a tall, blonde, Valkyrie looking woman…just less hate because she’s in the same generic “race”. Instead, when she gets with a Black man, White guys say that she did so because she was “low quality” when the fact is that she’s physically superior to most men of her generic designated “race” and therefore out of their physical league. Who could blame her for getting with a guy who can handle her and himself around her?

    What I’m saying isn’t about feminism. It’s about biology and how it plays out in the field. Like goes to like.

    Like


  209. Europeans were slaves, most of them. In the late Roman Empire, nearly 25% was slave. The Slavs were of course, mostly slaves. Serfs were modified slaves. Europeans were bought and sold in African slave markets (by Africans) among them Don Quixote author Miguel Cervantes. The slaving by North Africans is why Spanish, Portugese, French, and Italian coasts have no development in them older than the mid-19th Century (when the Europeans finally conquered the slave raiders). Slave raids happened as far north as Ireland, Scotland, and Iceland, into the 1700’s there.

    Europeans are just as much slaves and descendants of slaves as Africans, probably more so (the percentage of African slavery was less, for less time).

    Like


  210. whiskey

    The Slavs were of course, mostly slaves.

    No they weren’t.

    More Whiskey making it up and stating it as fact. Making it up from some associations he’s had.

    I’m sick of it.

    No one should give him any credence.

    Slavs were at one point considered a happy hunting group and productive of attractive females for slaves for the Ottoman Empire. Hence slav => slave. Or some theorize that. Others object. I suspect it’s accurate.

    That’s not to say that the majority or anything close of slavs were ever slaves to the Ottomans or otherwise.

    Serfs yes. That was the general condition of the lower classes in Europe until around the beginning of the 18th-19th centuries and in some countries later.

    Like


  211. Ghost of Nicole

    Note the word “submissive” in the selection you quoted.

    A strong, submissive woman will still get classed as masculine by a man who is weaker than her and can’t handle *himself* around her.

    “Men can’t handle her” is always feminist codespeak for “she’s such an insufferable asshole that nobody can stand her.”

    Africans were bought and sold partly on the basis of physical superiority. Whatever ugliness Americans see in us is usually based on markers of that superiority. It’s the fear.

    No, I believe those fears are usually based on the disproportionate amount of crimes Black Americans are responsible for.

    There’s the same fear when American guys see a tall, blonde, Valkyrie looking woman…just less hate because she’s in the same generic “race”. Instead, when she gets with a Black man, White guys say that she did so because she was “low quality” when the fact is that she’s physically superior to most men of her generic designated “race” and therefore out of their physical league. Who could blame her for getting with a guy who can handle her and himself around her?

    You’re delusional. The vast majority of women, whether they’re from an American ghetto or Norway, will easily lose to a man in a fight, and aren’t as strong either.

    Like


  212. Chic Noir says, “A woman who can lift 50 lbs is no less feminine than one who can only lift 20 lbs. I don’t think any of the people here are arguing that point.”

    I think they are, but they just don’t know it.

    One has to read between the lines with these things, and understand that there’s a difference between what should be, and what is.

    The complaints most guys here have about Black women’s looks center around masculinity. That you as a female, or a physically larger, stronger male doesn’t view them as masculine doesn’t change what the going trend of thought is on this. Little guys see bigger, stronger women as more masculine. If a woman demonstrated her strength casually (as most strong women will) this will usually turn weaker men off.

    It’s not what some people think should happen, but it’s what actually does happen. I’m of the opinion that this should happen. PC has no place in the bedroom or the kitchen, in my opinion.

    “There are mannerisms, gestures, a way of walking, tone and inflection of voice, posture, a way of dressing, etc.. that tell the difference between a feminine and more masculine woman.”

    Of course, and this is exactly what a guy is looking for in a bank teller, but not in a girlfriend.

    Guys don’t generally like to date women who are either stronger than them or have a low enough strength differential that they couldn’t physically overpower her if they needed to or wanted to. It sounds kinda sick if you say it out loud, but there are good evolutionary reasons for this.

    Asshole game sounds kind of sick when you spell it out, but it does work to showcase a guy’s non conformity. This is a good thing, when the guy is legitimately not into following harmful and destructive trends just because they’re fashionable. Women need to see their man isn’t going to sell the family’s wellbeing for social brownie points or something else petty.

    Guys who are interested in having a household, need to feel that they’re the man in their house. There isn’t a damn thing wrong with that. If the dude is misguided and looking for the wrong kind of woman that will only give him the illusion of being the man, he’ll pay for that (in alimony). Generally though, the system works pretty well.

    Like


  213. YKW says, ““Men can’t handle her” is always feminist codespeak for “she’s such an insufferable asshole that nobody can stand her.””

    I didn’t say anything about *men*. I’m saying *weaker men*. Not all men are weak. Strong men have pretty much free dating range. If you feel singled out when I’m talking about weak men, then hit the gym or get a manual labor side job. It’ll do you some good and hopefully prevent such attempts to drag all men down into your personal despair.

    “No, I believe those fears are usually based on the disproportionate amount of crimes Black Americans are responsible for.”

    What the dickens does crime have to do with beauty?

    Does Irish people committing a disproportionate amount of crime make Irish women ugly?

    Vietnamese women?

    Afghan women growing opium? Does growing opium make a woman ugly?

    LOL!

    “You’re delusional. The vast majority of women, whether they’re from an American ghetto or Norway, will easily lose to a man in a fight, and aren’t as strong either.”

    There are many non African, non eastern European women who are breaking the curve if you’re talking averages and vast majorities. We’re discussing women of specific backgrounds who were basically built and genetically conditioned over long periods of time to be stronger than the average western European descended man.

    There is more to combat than physically overpowering a person. It doesn’t actually take much brute strength, but some is required to get the job done. A woman who can easily lift 50+ kg. of dead weight has more than enough brute strength to put a real hurting on a guy of just about any size. The rest is just knowing where to strike and basic grappling.

    Relatively, she may be weaker than the average man, but she’s stronger than the weaker than average men. I’d say that’s a whole lot of guys in the west.

    Like


  214. What will always knock a man over is bad breath. Just sayin…

    Like


  215. A note on the sleeping together, but just sleeping routine. This was (and probably is?) pretty common in college, and perhaps today. I wouldn’t write if off completely, so long as each time progress is made and there is a feeling of inevitability about the whole arrangement, sort of like, “it’s going to happen, but we’ve only been dating for a week, so . . . ,”

    Also, sometimes little to no action that night means full action in the morning. Or, now that I think about it, perhaps it means it would have also been there the night before too.

    Like


  216. Billford, please stop posting such nonsense. I absorbed your second sentence with anticipation, but you quickly smacked into the wall of super-beta. If you share a mattress with a girl you have been “dating” in college… well jesus, that shit should speak for itself.

    One weekday night in my college days, I was awakened by a well-networked female friend jumping into my bed. Instantly, I felt flattered and assumed the best in my shocked, beta state. I did not know how to respond; we had a thick mutual social circle, and she had a relatively virginal reputation, though that was far from my mind at that point. I knew no one who had “dated” her personally, or gotten past 2nd base for that matter!

    After a few minutes of deliberation, I made my move, rolling over to initiate the wraparound arm and poke her toned thigh with my raging boner. She twitched at this contact and let out a snore. Yes, she was that bombed and assumed that much deference from a non-sexual male figure in her life. I retreated quickly in confusion, paused, and then resumed rapid eye movement.

    Waking up the next morning, girl was already ghost like swayze. I conferred with my five housemates… three had previously experienced near-identical incidents with her. We canonized this chick “Cuddle Whore” and went about our business, frothing at the mouth and learned from the mutual gaffe. Any future bedfellow, upon passing out, would serve as 3D porn to be jerked off onto… but that is a story for another day…

    Like


  217. Ghost of Nicole

    I didn’t say anything about *men*. I’m saying *weaker men*. Not all men are weak. Strong men have pretty much free dating range. If you feel singled out when I’m talking about weak men, then hit the gym or get a manual labor side job. It’ll do you some good and hopefully prevent such attempts to drag all men down into your personal despair.

    What the fuck are you talking about? Nowhere did I say, or in any way imply or insinuate, that I am physically weak. It doesn’t even have anything to do with this.

    What the dickens does crime have to do with beauty?

    You’re the one who brought up fear. Are you now changing the subject?

    There are many non African, non eastern European women who are breaking the curve if you’re talking averages and vast majorities. We’re discussing women of specific backgrounds who were basically built and genetically conditioned over long periods of time to be stronger than the average western European descended man.

    I repeat, you are delusional.

    There is more to combat than physically overpowering a person. It doesn’t actually take much brute strength, but some is required to get the job done. A woman who can easily lift 50+ kg. of dead weight has more than enough brute strength to put a real hurting on a guy of just about any size. The rest is just knowing where to strike and basic grappling.

    I think it’s safe to say that you don’t know anything about this subject. Or you are too delusional.

    Cannon’s Canon

    Billford, please stop posting such nonsense. I absorbed your second sentence with anticipation, but you quickly smacked into the wall of super-beta. If you share a mattress with a girl you have been “dating” in college… well jesus, that shit should speak for itself.

    What is supposed to be wrong with merely sleeping with a woman before progressing to sex?

    Like


  218. For Rum those that doubt male sexual and reproduction power:

    “This system worked when men held the economic and social upper hand.”(ie..sexual power, and control of women IN MARRIAGE) ~Roissy

    “Women have always been this way. What changed was the pill, condom, economic parity and feminist devolution. Contrary to the conventional wisdom propagandized by our ignoble Kunty Kommissars of the Kulturkampf in charge of punishing the masses for daring to pull the wool from their own eyes, women’s sexual nature, not men’s, is the wilder of the two. Women’s pussy keeps men in check, but dick doesn’t keep women in check, save for organically emergent cultural controls that put the brakes on female sexuality through the consequences of shaming, accidental pregnancy and potential out-of-wedlock destitution.”~Roissy

    So many times I hear that men have never had ANY sexual power or power over reproduction, and well that’s a straight up lie. Men DID have it, IN MARRIAGE and the ability to socially shun women for “poor” behavior. So quit acting like men have NEVER had power, it’s a lie and a shot at sealing your “victimhood”. And yes now it’s gone…the shackles are removed from your ankles guys so what are you complaining about? No marriag is a good thing!! Oh that’s right, how soon I forget, because of this “change” a majority of men in this country aren’t getting laid, and have turned into jealous spineless tools. All the sex is going to a handful of men, and the rest have to game play. Roissy had it half right, women have devolved, but so have men.

    A

    Like


  219. @ you know who

    You cite Obsidian, who wrote: For “You Know Who”: you often have derided Game as the preserve of those who only get lowclass Women. That’s fine-so could you please outline your method of getting a high quality Women? From First Contact through to Consumation? I am very interested in learning more as to how you do it. Please share.

    Your response to this is: I have told you many times before that there is no “method.” You can have “methods” when you’re looking for sluts to bang for the night, but a real relationship is different.

    This strikes me as a dodge of Obsidian’s tough (and insightful) challenge. You focus on O’s use of the term “method” as a way of dismissing the deeper challenge here. You’re saying there’s no “formula” or “technique” for wooing quality women.

    Fine. For the sake of argument, I’ll grant you your beloved and cherished binary, mutually exclusive distinction between quality & non-quality women (which is naïve and smells of beta-ness, but whatever). You concede to Obsidian that PUA tactics “work” on non-quality women, but assert that quality women cannot be wooed with any “method” whatsoever.

    So let’s drop the term “method”. I’d like to re-challenge you on the more general issue raised by Obsidian: How does attraction, courtship, and ultimately consummation function when dealing with what you call quality women? Please refrain from platitudes or generalizations, but instead provide us with detailed descriptions of how this works.

    If “function” is too mechanistic for you, then just give us some anecdotes. Surely you or some of your friends have successfully wooed quality women, no? Tell us how it went. How did you meet? How was attraction established and acted upon? Forget theory or “method”…just, what happened. Details please.

    Or is it all just too mysterious to you?

    Like


  220. YKW says, “What the fuck are you talking about? Nowhere did I say, or in any way imply or insinuate, that I am physically weak. It doesn’t even have anything to do with this.”

    Maybe not, but as many times as I specified relatively weaker men than the usual male peers/available pool of potential partners of the women in question, one has to wonder why you were confused. If I assumed wrongly, that your confusion was due to identification with relatively weaker men, rather than not reading before responding, I apologize. I should have called you on your knee jerking, and reminded you that you’ll get more out of my posts by remembering that my name is Nicole.

    Nicole doesn’t need to be pretty to you. Nicole would just like you not to take the looks of differently adapted women personally, so that you don’t get so much of your own negativity reflected back to you.

    Since a relatively strong woman is still usually going to be weaker than the average guy, fearing them is highly irrational. White guys load so much bullshit onto the looks issue across ethnicity, that doesn’t really belong there. When you live in a multicultural situation, it is unwise to project your fears about relatively masculine women of your own ethnicity, onto women who are relatively feminine in their ethnicity.

    Women of different ethnicities didn’t get their set of adaptations to be pretty to you. They got them to be pretty and fit for their coracials. In a multicultural situation, the dominant culture wins the beauty contest as far as popular opinion, but in real life at earth level, like still tends to go to like.

    If you don’t like what you see, choose another.

    “You’re the one who brought up fear. Are you now changing the subject?”

    I’m just asking what the crime rate of Black men has to do with the perceived beauty of Black women. A suburbanite Black female college student is not being feared because someone who happens to be of a similar complexion committed a crime somewhere. She’s feared because she is likely to be able to lift and throw a guy who weighs as much as her, or maybe more, without having to do a whole lot of working out to get there.

    The original question I’m answering is why WM/BF pairings are relatively more rare than BM/WF pairings. From outside the U.S. it may look like all Black people live in ghettoes or isolated communities, but we’re pretty spread out through the population. We’re only 8% of it, and there’s a bit of overlap where some of that 8% look visibly White or not so African. Some few thousand of them aren’t even African at all, but are Native Americans whose tribes weren’t federally recognized until the 60’s or 70’s or weren’t at all, who chose to be legally Black. I know some of those personally…interesting people. Some legally Black people aren’t sub saharan. They’re north African.

    Legally Black people, regardless of how much or how little African ancestry they have, would go on the record as in an interracial marriage if they married someone White or Asian. Yet the raw numbers are still low.

    When some people enter these kinds of conversations, their mind immediately pulls up an example of a dark skinned, wooly haired woman with a big booty, but that’s not most Black women. Lighter skinned women with partial or mostly European, Hispanic, or Native American ancestry, wider curls in their hair, and more evenly distributed bodyfat are still not going for White guys in massive numbers.

    White guys aren’t committing to them in massive numbers either. Because this is so despite the overlap, I think there’s more to it than White guys just thinking Black women are ugly. Knowing how some people who are only legally Black live, it’s that Black men are less intimidated by strong women. So most of them tend to marry Black men because despite their straight hair and relatively fair skin, the baby making hips and comfort with swimming alongside a water moccassin or two, puts off all but the more butch sort of White guys.

    Like


  221. A-Bax

    Fine. For the sake of argument, I’ll grant you your beloved and cherished binary, mutually exclusive distinction between quality & non-quality women (which is naïve and smells of beta-ness, but whatever).

    What does beta-ness mean? The binary alpha/beta dichotomy is completely without meaning. It has no set of rules, no internal logic, no consistency, no pattern. Nobody can agree on what those words even mean.

    So let’s drop the term “method”. I’d like to re-challenge you on the more general issue raised by Obsidian: How does attraction, courtship, and ultimately consummation function when dealing with what you call quality women? Please refrain from platitudes or generalizations, but instead provide us with detailed descriptions of how this works.

    You’re still trying to come up with a method. There is no method. I guess PUAs are so accustomed to methods and routines that they can no longer even imagine interacting with women in a natural and sincere way.

    Ghost of Nicole

    Nicole doesn’t need to be pretty to you. Nicole would just like you not to take the looks of differently adapted women personally, so that you don’t get so much of your own negativity reflected back to you.

    Since a relatively strong woman is still usually going to be weaker than the average guy, fearing them is highly irrational. White guys load so much bullshit onto the looks issue across ethnicity, that doesn’t really belong there. When you live in a multicultural situation, it is unwise to project your fears about relatively masculine women of your own ethnicity, onto women who are relatively feminine in their ethnicity.

    Women of different ethnicities didn’t get their set of adaptations to be pretty to you. They got them to be pretty and fit for their coracials. In a multicultural situation, the dominant culture wins the beauty contest as far as popular opinion, but in real life at earth level, like still tends to go to like.

    If you don’t like what you see, choose another.

    I see lots of words but I see no meaning or coherence. I have no idea what I just read.

    I’m just asking what the crime rate of Black men has to do with the perceived beauty of Black women.

    You are the one who brought up fear.

    A suburbanite Black female college student is not being feared because someone who happens to be of a similar complexion committed a crime somewhere. She’s feared because she is likely to be able to lift and throw a guy who weighs as much as her, or maybe more, without having to do a whole lot of working out to get there.

    You are astoundingly delusional. Nobody is afraid of something like this, and women who can perform such feats of strength are exceedingly rare. If black women are being shunned, a more likely explanation is that they are considered unattractive and/or perceived to be bitchy and irritating. Of course you can’t accept this, so you have instead created a delusional alternate reality where white guys are just scared of them because they are strong and empowered womyn.

    Like


  222. chic noir said: I can’t find a common ground with either gender.

    Well chic, you might be my comrade in arms then. Nice to meet you.

    Like


  223. @ you know who

    I note for the record that you have declined the challenge to make clear the difference between wooing a (what you call) quality women vs. wooing (what you call) non-quality women. You insist that there is a binary, mutually-exclusive difference between these two sorts of women, you readily concede that game works on one sort, yet you refuse to describe how attraction/courtship/consummation occurs with the other sort.

    You insist that I’m still asking you to provide a “method” of wooing quality women, when I have made it clear that simple anecdotes will suffice to get the ball rolling. You are either unable or unwilling to provide such anecdotes, and instead fall back on saccharine phrases like “interacting with women in a natural and sincere way.”

    Is that the best you can do? “interacting with women in a natural and sincere way”? Really? And you expect others to take your anti-game mentality seriously? C’mon man, you have to bring more to the table than that.

    (A less generous reader might conclude that you don’t provide anecdotes of wooing quality women because you either haven’t done so, or are worried that the contours of your anecdotes actually DO conform to “game” parameters.)

    To sum up: 1) You insist on the Madonna-whore distinction. 2) You concede the effectiveness of game vis a vis that latter, and assert the ineffectiveness of game vis a vis the former. 3) When queried as to how courtship occurs with the former, you essentially refuse to answer.

    Final thoughts, since your thinking on this subject seems to be more ideologically-driven than empirically-driven, and we all know that articles of faith (such as your Madonna-whore axiom) aren’t amenable to revision based on evidence:

    How is it that we have perfectly legitimate terms like “woo”, “court”, or “seduce” in our language, given your viewpoint? These are terms we all understand. They refer to processes in the world that display some resemblance towards one another. That resemblance suggests an underlying structural similarity of the various instances of things we’d call, say, a “courtship”.

    Yet, you insist that there is no discernable pattern among the various instances of quality-women becoming involved with men. If what you say is correct, how is it we can use the term “courtship” intelligibly with one another?

    PS – Alpha/Beta is not binary either. Roissy’s been quite explicit about this.

    Like


  224. A-Bax

    I note for the record that you have declined the challenge to make clear the difference between wooing a (what you call) quality women vs. wooing (what you call) non-quality women. You insist that there is a binary, mutually-exclusive difference between these two sorts of women, you readily concede that game works on one sort, yet you refuse to describe how attraction/courtship/consummation occurs with the other sort.

    There is nothing to describe, but of course you will never understand this since you will always be looking for some magic method.

    You insist that I’m still asking you to provide a “method” of wooing quality women, when I have made it clear that simple anecdotes will suffice to get the ball rolling. You are either unable or unwilling to provide such anecdotes, and instead fall back on saccharine phrases like “interacting with women in a natural and sincere way.”

    I’m sorry if you can’t interact with women without using game. It must be difficult.

    Final thoughts, since your thinking on this subject seems to be more ideologically-driven than empirically-driven, and we all know that articles of faith (such as your Madonna-whore axiom) aren’t amenable to revision based on evidence:

    Why would that be an “article of faith?” I can divide people into whatever categories I want to, it has nothing to do with faith or science.

    How is it that we have perfectly legitimate terms like “woo”, “court”, or “seduce” in our language, given your viewpoint? These are terms we all understand. They refer to processes in the world that display some resemblance towards one another. That resemblance suggests an underlying structural similarity of the various instances of things we’d call, say, a “courtship”.

    What does it matter that those words exist? Their existence does not mean you are somehow forced to seduce women. You might as well argue that the existence of the word “diarrhea” means that you can’t take a shit without it being diarrhea. Completely absurd.

    PS – Alpha/Beta is not binary either. Roissy’s been quite explicit about this.

    PUAs are inconsistent because their beliefs are inconsistent. They may say one thing today and something entirely different tomorrow.

    [editor: nice dodge.

    note to all other commenters: STOP FEEDING THE INCREDIBLY STUPID TROLL.]

    Like


  225. on September 16, 2009 at 12:54 pm ykw aka tjf the troll queen

    roissy, it is absolutely fucking astounding how incredibly intellectually dishonest you are. It is an utterly irrefutable fact that I have never trolled (where is the evidence?), whereas lurker does it in virtually every thread. There is absolutely no possible way you or anyone else could argue against the plain facts presented by this site’s comments. lurker always conjures these arguments from thin air without any provocation or clear reason. His behavior is textbook trolling, as I have demonstrated numerous times, and he never has any clear arguments, only infantile and extremely repetitive flames. His posts are literally nothing more than “lol autistic retard troll” repeated over, over, over and over again.

    Since you let lurker run wild and turn everything he touches into shit, it’s plainly obvious to even the most casual observer that you could not care less about trolling. People could probably spam goatse in here all day long and you wouldn’t give a shit. The only reason why you want to silence me is because you have no effective counter-arguments against my posts. Or maybe you do, but you’re just too childish and lacking in intelligence to present them.

    [editor: i deleted lurker’s replies to your insipid trollery as well. you have nothing intelligent to say. you’re a cancer on the comments section, driving away much better people than yourself. not to mention you’re an aspergery tard who pisses himself with trembling excitement trying to get the last word in ad nauseum.]

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  226. No love for Norplant here, huh? Makes me wonder how roissy feels about IUDs and Depo. I know two women who have Implanon, one’s a young chick who’s been with her boyfriend for 3 years and finds Implanon works best for controlling her PMS and NOT GETTING PREGNANT, the other is 37 and has been married for 16 years to her husband, they have 3 kids and don’t want anymore, and she was tired of taking a pill every day.

    LOL at the ‘sleep with no sex’ example. My boyfriend and I did this for weeks before we had sex – but he was the one who invited me to stay over, then just spooned me and went to sleep. He loves to cuddle. I was a bit confused that he didn’t make a move sooner.

    Chic said:
    “A woman who can lift 50 lbs is no less feminine than one who can only lift 20 lbs. I don’t think any of the people here are arguing that point.”

    Not to mention that you can’t tell by looking at a woman how fit she is physically. I am underweight at 105 lbs, look like a twig, and I routinely carry loads of 40 to 80 lbs (I know exactly how much the kids/boxes/bags weigh) and can run a 5k with no prep and not much effort. No one can tell this from looking at me (at least when I am not flexed). I have a typical too-thin model/starlet figure, people think I am anorexic, not athletic.

    GhostofNicole, I don’t think me being strong and fit affords me many, if any advantages in the realm of self-defense. Most women I know of all sizes are weak. They struggle with 15-lb bags of cat food. Would a woman my height and 160 pounds, but not capable of lifting/doing what I can, be better able to defend herself against a 160 lb male attacker? I can’t answer that question. All I know is that my tiny self, even though I am strong, fit, and not afraid to hit where it hurts, probably couldn’t put up enough of a fight to fend off rape from an ‘average’ guy (might have a chance at outrunning him). Thankfully I haven’t been put to the test yet.

    Like


  227. Any guy who allows a girl to sleep with him without first fucking her has already lost the battle.

    If ‘lost the battle’ means ‘won’t fuck her’, than that’s not true.

    Most of the readers, certainly a majority, are beta trying to learn better. You can improve your game in increments. Going from beta straight to the worst caricature of a Roissy commenter’s advice will only turn an earnest, frustrated loser in love into a bitter, worse-off loser in love.

    Sure. It’s time for what we can call Mind Game. After lights out, get rolling with a solemn “can you feel my boner?” Regardless of answer, follow up with “whew!”. Then pretend really badly to have a wet dream. Gently pinch her toe. Theatrical snoring. And so on. Sleep is not on the agenda.

    If you want her to leave, tell her not to “turn over Betsy’s box” if she goes to the bathroom. Cuz Betsy is so difficult to find when she gets out … last time, she turned up in a shoe. (If your guest wants to see Betsy, have an empty shoebox ready. Damn, she’s already got out.) She’ll crack.

    Like


  228. Nicole Guys don’t generally like to date women who are either stronger than them or have a low enough strength differential that they couldn’t physically overpower her if they needed to or wanted to.

    Oh I think I can agree with that. That’s why you should keep it hidden until you need to protect yourself.

    Nicole Little guys see bigger, stronger women as more masculine

    I don’t buy this and you shouldn’t either. How many men get off on the Victoria secret models? Most of those women are between 5’9 and 6’2. the shortest is usually Marissa Miller who is 5’8, which makes her 4 inches taller than the average woman.
    As a tall, and very proud tall woman, I’ve had short men take a shot. It doesn’t bother me but sometimes I’m tickled pink at the smaller guys who approach me as if they are 6’5. I don’t discriminate much on height thought. Short men have good attributes.

    Chic wrote“There are mannerisms, gestures, blah blah blah..

    Noicole’s response Of course, and this is exactly what a guy is looking for in a bank teller, but not in a girlfriend
    I don’t get what you’re trying to say here. Men usually prefer more feminine women, although most will take any woman over no woman.

    Aoefe What will always knock a man over is bad breath. Just sayin

    That was on time and very funny. What will really disarm a man is a woman with smelly woman parts*.

    * I overheard my brother telling his friends a lolrof story about a woman.

    Like


  229. Her: Hey some buddies of mine saw me with you last night and they asked if you were my bf haha…people are gossiping now…but I cleared up the confusion.

    How about “I don’t care”? Or “Good for you! Finally out” (mmm, a bit weak).

    Volley reply when the texts get too cute: “Are you drunk?”

    Like


  230. Her: Hey some buddies of mine saw me with you last night and they asked if you were my bf haha…people are gossiping now…but I cleared up the confusion

    chic if she were a guy and

    her: um uh uh um well…..

    or

    chic as a guy: I hope you told them I hadn’t made up my mind about you yet.

    Like


  231. Bonnie says, “Not to mention that you can’t tell by looking at a woman how fit she is physically.”

    You can if your idea of “fit” doesn’t require a high amount of muscular hypertrophy. Big muscles and strength are not the same thing, and people who don’t only exercise by lifting rice cakes and remote controls understand this.

    I can immediately tell the difference between a woman who’s wirey, and one who’s simply thin, in a bathing suit.

    “I am underweight at 105 lbs, look like a twig, and I routinely carry loads of 40 to 80 lbs (I know exactly how much the kids/boxes/bags weigh) and can run a 5k with no prep and not much effort. No one can tell this from looking at me (at least when I am not flexed). I have a typical too-thin model/starlet figure, people think I am anorexic, not athletic.”

    Well, the people who would think that are stupid. I highly doubt your boobs are pancake like or acute, or that your flesh hangs off your bones like chicken skin.

    “GhostofNicole, I don’t think me being strong and fit affords me many, if any advantages in the realm of self-defense.”

    It would if you were trained. It really doesn’t take a whole lot of strength…just enough to carry your own weight well, and redirect others’, and to take a punch or fall on pavement in a way that you don’t break something on impact. Self defense isn’t really about the fighting as much as it is about deterring or surviving being attacked.

    In the infamous incident I catch some hell here for, the skills I needed to get out of that intact were falling, rolling, and evading. Very little physical strength was needed. I could have been on crutches and done the same thing.

    As Verbil Kint would say, you just have to be willing to do the things others aren’t willing to. Cross that mental barrier, and the body follows.

    “Most women I know of all sizes are weak. They struggle with 15-lb bags of cat food. Would a woman my height and 160 pounds, but not capable of lifting/doing what I can, be better able to defend herself against a 160 lb male attacker? I can’t answer that question.”

    I can. No, she wouldn’t be better able to defend herself based on her size. All she’d have is weight leverage, and every bouncer worth his salt knows this is pretty much meaningless. Some of the best guys I know in the business are relatively short and light, but with a high degree of self control.

    “All I know is that my tiny self, even though I am strong, fit, and not afraid to hit where it hurts, probably couldn’t put up enough of a fight to fend off rape from an ‘average’ guy (might have a chance at outrunning him). Thankfully I haven’t been put to the test yet.”

    I hope you never have to…but don’t underestimate yourself. False humility, when it’s made a habit, can kill you on the street as much as overconfidence. A human head weighs only about 8-12 lbs. and it doesn’t take much to stretch a neck the wrong way. There are also such things as firearms. Nobody who can afford a gun is without the ability to defend themselves. It’s just a matter of whether or not they choose to rely on the kindness of others or their own intelligence.

    Another thing to remember is that the average rottweiler is weaker than the average human male too.

    Like


  232. Chic Noir says, “‘Nicole Guys don’t generally like to date women who are either stronger than them or have a low enough strength differential that they couldn’t physically overpower her if they needed to or wanted to.’

    Oh I think I can agree with that. That’s why you should keep it hidden until you need to protect yourself.”

    Why should a woman who is of exceptional strength, intelligence, or any other advantage, keep it hidden?

    I can see not rubbing people’s faces in it unless one is pressed, but hiding it?

    Eh…no. I am not “dumbing down” to sustain anyone’s illusions of equality or superiority. I would feel insulted if someone did that for my sake. I feel insulted when guys play nice and harmless, rather than being actual gentlemen. It’s like they’re lying about the wrong thing, to try to get something.

    “‘Nicole Little guys see bigger, stronger women as more masculine’

    I don’t buy this and you shouldn’t either. How many men get off on the Victoria secret models? Most of those women are between 5’9 and 6’2. the shortest is usually Marissa Miller who is 5’8, which makes her 4 inches taller than the average woman.”

    Most men aren’t encountering these women in a sexual context in real life where they can get a real look at the woman’s height.

    “As a tall, and very proud tall woman, I’ve had short men take a shot. It doesn’t bother me but sometimes I’m tickled pink at the smaller guys who approach me as if they are 6’5. I don’t discriminate much on height thought. Short men have good attributes.”

    I assure you that far more men have rejected you for long term relationships, based on your height, than have approached you in spite of it.

    Lots of guys approached me when I was fatter. More do now that I’m less fat. If you could make yourself shorter, more guys would approach you.

    This doesn’t make being tall wrong, or being fat wrong if it’s because of a legit health or ignorance problem (or a combination of both as it was in my case) but exceptions don’t make the rules. Most guys will pass over women who are taller than them.

    “”Chic wrote“There are mannerisms, gestures, blah blah blah..

    ‘Noicole’s response Of course, and this is exactly what a guy is looking for in a bank teller, but not in a girlfriend.’
    I don’t get what you’re trying to say here. Men usually prefer more feminine women, although most will take any woman over no woman.”

    What I’m saying is that feminine and pleasant is what guys look for in a waitress, bank teller, and maybe even a politician…but for dating, most guys require that the woman not be physically stronger, taller, or otherwise bigger.

    What they perceive as physically intimidating depends on their own personal fitness and size, and that of the women in their race/culture that they use as examples of what femininity is. In some cultures, women are supposed to be physically strong, and so strength won’t be a turn off for those guys. In western/U.S. culture though, a woman is supposed to be tiny and harmless.

    I had to deal with this since I was much smaller. Things would be going well until they found out I was a martial artist, or they saw me doing something that they didn’t think a woman should be able to do.

    I pretty much cancelled myself out of my entire high school with in one TKD exhibition. The only guy left in it who wasn’t afraid to go out with me was a cute 12 year old kid who was also a martial artist, and I think his mom was too.

    By the way, Bonnie, his mom was also a relatively tall, very slim, wirey woman. I’m not sure what her exact ancestry was, but I think it was Nordic or Scandanavian. She had the cute roundish face shape, blue-green-hazel eyes, dollbaby lips, ash blonde hair, and long piano fingers and big feet.

    Her husband was a bit taller than her, and very strong and fit. He was of a tall, thick build. I check my FB every so often to see if the kid is going to join and show how he turned out.

    Like


  233. “You know all those bitter, 30-something shrews out there who think they deserve the perfect man and the perfect job, and don’t understand why they can’t have it all? The kind who show up on dates with checklists, even though their baby clock is pounding in their ears, and they are starting to look rough around the edges? The kind who are vapid or career-obsessed (or both), and don’t the least bit of womanly charm or interest in household duties?”

    I don’t think they really hear much of a baby clock pounding, though. With the way that modern society has placed such an emphasis on career-minded women and equality, a lot of them are now free to do what all human beings prefer to: live their life in a completely narcissistic way (without having children to interfere)

    Like


  234. @ jh

    Yes they do. Some may hide it because they still have extended families, but without those, childless women over 30 hear nothing but the baby clock pounding

    Like


  235. Your comment is awaiting moderation.

    Thank you very much for proving my point. Now who’s trying to have the last word?

    Like


  236. Gig, the baby clock pounding is only maybe 15 years. After that, the sex clock and the baby clock both stop around the same time.

    For those who do have children, but are single because of divorce or death of their partner, it stops even earlier. Once the kids are just about grown, we’re free.

    Like


  237. Ruby,
    You said:
    “In Response to Obisdian:

    What have been your experiences with advantages and disadvantages of various pick-up scenarios as a black man?

    As I apply the ‘Essence of Alpha’ more and more, I’m finding that folks around me seem to be more ’shook’ and fearful than average.

    I wouldn’t say that this is a negative side-effect [it is actually quite amusing]; But I can’t help but wonder about what other folks in similar situations see as the “proper application” of this new found aura?”

    O: I find that there are indeed distinct differences in chatting/picking up Black Women vs White, even when allowing for educational/cultural stuff. As a general rule, Black Women aren’t as chatty as White Women are. You need to get their attention fairly quickly and make your move. Peacocking helps A LOT. Its very easy for me to hit on White Women if I want, but Sistas as a rule, don’t usually respond to that; they have to be drawn to you first.

    As for the “Essence of Alpha” thing, lol, well…as we can see here, a group of fairly highly educated folk, stubborn perceptions persist about Black folk. I’ve found that what you could normally do around Black folk you have to “tone down” a bit around Whites, because quite frankly, it don’t take much to rattle their cages. A lot is said about Black Men having “crude, crass, lowclass Game” and whatnot, but what so many seem to forget is that there are many very smooth, laidback Brothas who can and often do rack em up out there in the field. I find that White Women of a certain type, usually college educated/professional types tend to go for these types of Brothas, not exclusively, as quite a few have a Jones for a Thug Nigga too, quiet as its kept. But yea, that’s been my experience. Of course, such a Brotha has wide appeal among Sistas no matter what her class. I often get cat-called, groped and the like. Just yesterday a Sista used me as a pole on the bus to steady herself. And it wasn’t a quick nanosecond kind of thing either, it was sustained for several minutes. My lady was with me, sitting right next to me, and I wanted to see what would happen. She didn’t say anything, and only when I looked at the Sista standing up w/a “What the fuck is wrong with you?” look did she then say “I’m sorry” and so on.

    But yea, it’s really interesting. Oh, and I don’t consider myself a “PUA” per se. Just a Brotha who studies and wields Game to get a better quality of life.

    Hope this helps.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  238. aoefe

    Her: Hey some buddies of mine saw me with you last night and they asked if you were my bf haha…people are gossiping now…but I cleared up the confusion.”

    Him: Thanks

    That response will totally mess with her head. Promise.

    That coment is basically a minimalist agree and escalate.

    You are agreeing that something needed to be cleared up. Agreeing that it’s ludicrous to assume that the two of you could possibly be dating. And escalating it by saying that you are relieved that her friends have been set straight.

    Brilliant.

    Like


  239. using logic
    to explain logic
    to a blonde with
    big tits

    brilliant

    Like


  240. Ruby queried:

    What have been your experiences with advantages and disadvantages of various pick-up scenarios as a black man?

    Advantage:
    Lynching outlawed since January 19th, 2009

    Disadvantage:
    Persistent tinnitus from rape whistles

    Like


  241. Nicole, my sis is 5’10” and around 120, typical VS model build (but with a nice waist, lucky girl). She gets TONS of play from men of all sizes. When you have the height without bulk, guys all want the model. Height+bulk can be a different story…

    I appreciate your confidence in my self-defense skills. I know enough to hit first and hit hard where it hurts, so if I am ever in a bad situation hopefully I will make it.. also I never go outside after dark without my 80-lb German Shepherd.

    Like


  242. German shepherds rule. They can take someone’s head off, but still think they’re puppies towards their owners.

    If my landlord wasn’t anti dog, I’d have one.

    Like