A Test Of Your Game: Judging Your Responses To ‘No Girl’

The readers have responded to this post’s game challenge with a show of force. It’s a good sign that men who come to this blog are still interested in learning how to pick up women. The scrotal sack of Western man is not yet drained of life.

Many commenters felt that it was a fool’s errand to pursue a girl who had shot her hand up and and barked “No!” before the man could get one word out.

Game shaman YaReally essentially subscribed to this point of view.

And the instant “No” girls aren’t judging you as a human being because they haven’t met and interacted with you. They’re just lumping you in with a type of low-value guy because for whatever reasons that’s the headspace they’re in at the moment and she wasn’t aware of you doing anything to NOT be lumped in with those guys before you approached.

It’s all very simple. Ones and zeroes, binary shit: If you’re high-value in her mind, she’ll talk to you, if not she’ll lump you with the rest and not give you a chance. So you can either walk away and take the loss, or figure out how to build your value to her. Those are the two options. She still won’t owe you shit even if you build your value, and she doesn’t owe you the opportunity TO demonstrate higher value. IDEALLY, you DHV’ed in front of her before approaching so you don’t get the “No” in the first place, but assuming that’s happened you have two options: You either find a way to DHV or you move on.

I don’t disagree with Ya or with readers who’ve expressed a similar sentiment; as a matter of principle and of practice, it’s best to NEXT a No Girl with apathetic prejudice. If you’re getting a NO! and a Heisman before you’ve opened your mouth, you’ve got a high hurdle that’s not worth the effort to jump. YaReally’s ideal suggestion — to promptly backturn the No Girl and engage an adjacent group while loudly announcing within No Girl’s earshot “wow, that girl HATES me. I didn’t even get past the word ‘hi’. Looks like I’ll be a virgin forever. :(” — is, in my view, the best option from among a really limited set of options.

But the original reader asking for advice did not ask for the ideal response; he asked for the response that would “salvage and optimize” the interaction with No Girl. He wanted to know what he could say or do that would have a chance of turning No Girl around, despite the heavy odds against him. That’s why his question was the topic of a “Test Of Your Game” post.

Assuming he doesn’t have the convenience of an adjacent mixed set he can leverage YaReally-style, he’ll have to game No Girl on her terms. That means a direct verbal or nonverbal reply. The best of the commenters’ suggestions follow. For some, I’ve included a grading system. Entertainment Value measures how hard you, and perhaps No Girl’s circus elephants, would laugh if you were there watching it happen.  Workabiliity describes how easy or difficult it would be for a newb to pull it off in the field. And Game Tightness is an appraisal of the chances that the response would actually spur No Girl’s curiosity and attraction.

 pupton1974 writes,

By saying “Talk to the hand” she has announced her status as a bitch. Hold nothing back. I don’t want to turn her lemon into lemonade. I want her to feel like the turd she is. Any of these with a “don’t give a fuck” smirk could take her down a peg:

1) “Eww, it looks like you’ve pitted out that blouse really bad.”
2) “Put your arm down, you’re attracting flies.”
3) “Raise your hand if you have a yeast infection.”

#3 is the best. “Raise your hand if [X]” is a good all-purpose takedown of the No Girl’s signature “talk to the hand” maneuver.

Entertainment Value: A+
Workability: C (These lines can be a mouthful under pressure.)
Game Tightness: D (Don’t expect this tack to result in a mutually satisfying interaction.)


monster211 writes,

GIRL: *hand shoots up* “No!”

BABY’S ARM HOLDING AN APPLE: *sneeze all over her hand, wipe your nose with your arm while sniffling and then wink while nonchalantly grabbing your crotch*

I would pay to see a guy sneeze violently on a No Girl’s jivemama hand.

Entertainment Value: A
Workability: D (You’d better be able to sneeze on command.)
Game Tightness: F (Hard to see this leading to a love match.)


Days of Broken Arrows flashes his Macchiavelli card,


“Um…I was going to ask if you were one of my sister’s friends. She died last month. Have a nice day.”

Cold as ice. I can’t think of a better wedge between No Girl and her friends. The shame will burn to the bone.

Entertainment Value: C (A downer for everyone but you.)
Workability: C (You’ll need good acting chops.)
Game Tightness: B (If she believes you, she’s yours. If not, she still might be yours. At least, one of her friends will want to console you.)


Danny Kovach channels a young alpha male:

“Your hands look like my grandma’s”

Entertainment Value: B
Workability: A (Short and sweet.)
Game Tightness: B (More insult than neg, given the context. Don’t expect miracles.)


Anonymous couples the high five with a disqualification,

hahahaaa, my immediate response was the high 5 with a huge grin on my face before i even finished reading, maybe followed with ‘eww, whats that on your hand, thats fucking disgusting’ and then a ‘made you look’.

I like the high five. It’s quick and easy to pull off on a No Girl (she might not even see it coming, what with her head facing the other way), it’s surprising, it’s amusing for you and her friends, and it can open up a lot of disqualification possibilities and enable follow-up ramble game. It’d be really funny if you execute the high five, grinning like a jerk, as you’re passing by her to talk to her friend. An alternate but similar version of the high five is “rock paper scissors”; start playing the game with her when her hand shoots up.

Entertainment Value: B (High fives lift everyone’s mood.)
Workability: A (Easy peasy lemon squeezy.)
Game Tightness: C- (Outside chance No Girl turns into Yes Girl.)


corvinus takes a shot at her id,

“Hmm, no wedding ring. Figures.”

Another superb shiv that draws its blood without much thrashing about. But as another commenter suggested, it might be more “game savvy” to frame this reply differently, less spitefully. “Hmm, nice wedding ring.” Nuanced wording can create wildly different impressions.


gnarlinbrando writes,

*sexy grin and slight chuckle to yourself* then look to her friends:

“Is she always this much fun?”

This is a classic PUA neg. The goal is to embarrass her and DHV yourself, while getting her group to switch allegiance.


DangerWolf opts for the nonverbal, physical tease,

Immediately back-turning and talking to another girl, then slowly backing up into her and, if she objects, shouting “no!” with the hand gesture is also fun.

Just sticking around No Girl after the fact can make it deliciously awkward for her and fun for you, as long as you aren’t sticking around nursing your butthurtness. This tactic only works if you have a YaReally-esque scenario set up where another group is directly adjacent and available to open.


Boron and a host of commenters went the palm reading route,

Pretend to read palm.
“And this is your cat line. I see A LOT of cats in your future.”

Entertainment Value: C (Most people aren’t good at this.)
Workability: D (You’ve really got to command her attention for the duration.)
Game Tightness: B (If it sticks, you’re in like WIN!)


leahnnovash tries the plausible deniability strategy,

If she is alone, simply ask if I can take one of the extra chairs.

Entertainment Value: B (Could be really funny if timing is perfect.)
Workability: B (How good is your state control?)
Game Tightness: F (It’ll save face, but not much else.)

Others suggested similar versions of Plausible Deniability Game (cf., Francis Beam’s comment about sipping her drink and wincing). It’s popular among the commentariat. Done well, yeah I do think this can take the wind out of No Girl’s sails, but the dynamic between you and her won’t be much altered. Also, PD Game could backfire if it’s obvious you first approached her with an intention to hit on her.


whorefinder blows up the joint,

flash and smoke and smell of sulfur. Whorefinder appears

Why, thank you, kind sir. However, the treatment for this kind of Obama voter, er, See-You-Next-Tuesday rag is a bit different…

1. Observe hand.

2. Slowly check the crowd’s reaction from left to right.

3. Smile in friendship and extend your own hand, shaking hers, and pulling her onto her feet.

4. Quick, sharp kick to her stomach, double-middle finger to her face , and STUNNER, STUNNER BY GAWD J.R. ITS A STUNNER!!!!!


5. And only THEN rape….on the floor in front of the entire bar/club.

Stone Cold Awesome Rape! Rape on, gentlemen, rape on!

flash and smoke and sulfer. Whorefinder vanishes

Entertainment Value: A+ (A++ if smoke bomb included.)
Workability: F (Good luck!)
Game Tightness: F (Rape Game Tightness: A)


newlyaloof writes,

Girl: No!
You to her friend: Hmm. I like your friend. She’s feisty.

This is another take on “making lemonade out of lemons” game. The “feisty” line has been a staple of PUA tactics for a long time. The idea is that it signals your imperturbability. Nothing gets under your skin. Chicks like that about men.



That’s right. No, I don’t wanna get you pregnant

Funny, quippy, jerkish. Wanna see just how much funnier, quippier, and jerky you can get. Post your progress. #TINGLENATION.


Area Man reminisced,

This comment from a few years ago is still the winner:

“So I guess a blow job in the parking lot is out of the question?”

Entertainment Value: B- (Entertaining for you, not for her.)
Workability: B- (Gonna be tough to say this with a straight face.)
Game Tightness: D- (May work on a crazy slut with a history of dating serial killers.)


Eeyore tries Disagree&Amplify,

Disagree and amplify [meta, you’re agreeing to play disagree]. Yes! Yes like you’re Ben fucking Kingsley. Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Dean Moriarity turned up to 11. Preach it. Sell the fuck out of yes, like you’re discovering it for the first time. Yes is America, Apollo 11, and that first girl who let you feel her up when you were supposed to be doing homework. What the fuck is no? No is no. No is nothing. Yes is everything else. Yes is what you want, what she wants, what everybody wants. So yes. Yes to yes. Fuck yes. No fucking no. Yes.

My hunch is she will either (a) disagree more and more playfully or (b) shrink away (and look at you in awe). Regardless, your name for her is Yes. The rest is superfluous.

D&A is taking a page out of Toddler Game. If you are truly a No Fucks Given kinda guy, I say try it out. NOYESNOYESNOYESYESYESNO!!!YESYESYESEVERYTHINGYES

Anyone who tries this is required to report back to CH with his results.


Steve enlightens us all,

If you don’t have a fart ready to fire, a burp will do.

Entertainment Value: B+ (Until the smell hits.)
Workability: F (Unless you ate a burrito beforehand.)
Game Tightness: Who cares? I don’t think I’d stop laughing if I saw this go down.


Anonymous gets to the heart of the matter,

“who’s gay”

The trick to this reply is NEUTRALITY. It only works as intended if your facial expression and vocal tone are blank and monotone respectively. If you insert emotion, it’s liable to come off angry.


Nathan imaginatively writes,

Keep it simple:
sticking your tongue out and ice cube to the neck/down the dress

‘At least I’m not wasting my time’, 360, moonwalk away

Whorefinder has competition in the Totally Unrealistic But Awesome If You Can Pull It Off Game challenge.


Finally, from Mean Mr. Mustard, there’s Penis Game.

Entertainment Value: Busts the grade curve.
Workability: A+ if flaccid, C+ if erect.
Game Tightness: A+ in Toronto and Wellesley.


  1. […] A Test Of Your Game: Judging Your Responses To ‘No Girl’ […]


    • I prefer the ubiquitous bitch shutdown…cue dramatic music…raise curtains…relax…

      Man: I just bought a 100 pack of Magnum XL’s. I wanted to test them out in the van I own down by the river. Care to join?

      Woman: NO! *hand goes up*

      Man: *With Resounding Verve and Purpose* “HA! Must be that time of the month. Enjoy.”

      Make sure to accent “HA!” with firm eye contact, then look away while subtly shaking your head with a glint of disappointment, saying “must be that time of the month” (subtle daggers of disapproval diggith mightily into the female soul)

      Easy to remember and always practical. You are putting the ball back into her court and making her prove the obnoxious behavior NOT a result of PMS.

      Women hate having bitchy behavior attributed to their menstrual cycle. Chiefly because women will use this “time of the month” alibi to justify all forms of bitchy behavior when it suits them, but nothing stings more than turning that same dagger around on the offending party.

      This line requires HER to prove otherwise, which at the very least brings you back to an even playing field. Always hammer on innate insecurities to get the offending party back on the defensive. There’s nothing a woman hates more than being told she is not in control of her emotions.

      Apply liberally my friends!


      • So…a woman says no. In response, you make a sad attempt to manipulate her into fucking you. D’you know what, I think she was right to refuse….


  2. Love these.

    Could you guys come up with this in the spur of the moment though?


    • the point is not to come up with something on the spot (although you will be much better at it as you internalize the mentality), the point is to file it away in your brain for when you run into it in the field, these situations happen with such regularity that it behooves the cad to have a default thing to do in each situation


      • pulsotic
        the point is not to come up with something on the spot (although you will be much better at it as you internalize the mentality), the point is to file it away in your brain for when you run into it in the field,

        If that works for you, cool.; but for some of us “filing things away for later” smacks of “parade ground intelligence” as you guys call it. You may need to produce some real self value in order to internalize enough value to project true game frame by default. Indeed, some of us can fake it; but some of us need to throw a shoe at a president, knock out Greg Eliot… in order to understand we are the greatest. To sum up — do what works for you. Regarding this dairy queen I would say; “does your pimp know you are here?” and then scan the room.

        She’s finished. No matter how she responds I can make it worse.

        Or better?


      • Thwack i have no idea what you’re trying to say
        filing things away in your brain is called “memory”, that’s mem-o-ry
        In psychology, memory is the process in which information is encoded, stored, and retrieved. Encoding allows information that is from the outside world to reach our senses in the forms of chemical and physical stimuli.
        If that doesn’t make sense, maybe you should google it


      • No disagreement here pulsotic, just offering a slightly different processing technique; a bit more “no huddle”, open cock pit than most. Tell her, her weave is crooked and then smirk at her friend.


      • Indeed, some of us can fake it; but some of us need to throw a shoe at a president, knock out Greg Eliot… in order to understand we are the greatest.

        Now tell everyone how you dreamt this scenario… and sent me an apology and two tickets to a Knick’s game immediately upon waking up.



    • My entry actually was spur-of-the-moment. I was not really intending to contribute at first.


  3. Mental note, bring sulphur to next club outing.


  4. Wow what big hands, are you a transvestite?


  5. This is not the first time whorefinder’s A+ game has given him an F…




    either the A+ game or the rohypnol, couldn’t tell.

    Yeah-he-went-there rape!

    p.s. I think I shall now enter every room wearing a cape and throwing a flashbang and a smoke bomb.


  6. Whisper in her ear,

    “Why say no, when it feels so good to say yes.”

    Walk away.


  7. Guess what, guys?

    Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, and Robin Williams are all still dead!

    Hooray for dead leftists!

    Hip hip dead scum!
    Hip hip dead scum!
    Hip hip dead scum!

    Wake the dead rape! Have a rape weekend!


    • Obvious troll is obvious. At least, I hope to God you’re a troll….


      • lol.

        Clearly you’re one of those black-worshiping losers who will only realize the truth about the subhumans when you yourself or your mother is being gang raped by a pack of Obama’s sons. Which, of course, I hope happens soon.

        Trayvon Martin got what he deserved/
        n- _i_g_ger stepped up and he got served!



  8. If you have to keep interacting with her, then I would toss a trojan horse-style hail mary. It probably doesn’t have much entertainment value, though:

    “Ha. Just like that….? It figures….I guess I should just pass on what I’m learning to you…”

    Her: What’s that

    “Never cheat. It’s like all women can sense that it happened…”

    She already doesn’t like you, so this switches gears and sets you up as an earnest non-threat, which could disarm her bitch shields. Of course, you’re now infecting her with the pre-selection worm. You’ve also given yourself a great chick-crack springboard — “woo-woo chicks can sense this, it’s like ESP woo-woo.”

    If she expressed ANY interest at all in hearing me talk, I would press on with a DQ…”you here to meet guys? That guy over there seems perfect for you.” Then I would redirect back to the chick-crack woo-woo shit and maybe get to know her and go from there.

    I tend to use these kinds of tactics on lukewarm girls. So, YMMV on a straight-up “No” girl.


  9. Speaking for myself a No Girl would have to pay me to have sex with her. A buck would do: it’s just to preserve my self-esteem.

    If the question is: what’s the best comeback, then my answer is: the comeback that makes me feel least bad about approaching the bitch.
    Perhaps the simplest is the best: “no what?” then move on, without looking back. But don’t go back: move on in as straight a line as possible from the direction you approached.

    Unless she is alone, I would not head straight for her in the approach, so a “no what?” would be especially effective. If it’s another girl in her set that gives the NO, you could turn to the target and ask her: what’s the matter with her? or something to that effect.


  10. Rush Limbaugh today on Open Line Friday: Dude in Spain [???] gets all excited because his newlywed wife gave birth about 9 months after the wedding. Only the baby came out with unmistakable signs of dwarfism. Turns out that on her “Hen Night” [== Bachelorette Party], the bitch fornicated with a dwarf stripper. WE LOVE YOU RUSH!!!


    • Now whenever I listen to Rush im looking for Chateau type gems spliced so expertly into his his show. Stories like that make me want to secretly test my brothers to see if they actually are my brothers, it would explain things if one was not of my fathers DNA.


      • He recommended a book called “Why Gender Matters” or something last week…I forwarded the Amazon link to CH. There are differences between the sexes and how boys and girls learn and see the world, and this guy apparently (I haven’t read the book) identified these differences and so on…using science!



  11. How about “I had to take a shit anyway”?


  12. These are good, but CH should put a “caution: for 50% of these there may be a drink thrown at you”

    Maybe I’m from a super libbed out area…but a couple of these responses will most likely get her to throw her drink at you or at least escalate with her voice


  13. It could be that she’s telling you a good thing.

    A very hot chick alone at the bar gave me a strong “No” hand sign. I knew she was a flight attendant, used to many approaches. I pressed on.

    I don’t exactly remember how the conversation then went because I was sucker-punched off my barstool and then kicked in the face while on the ground. Bouncers threw all parties out the door.

    I got four stitches at a nearby hospital ER, then spent the rest of the night in the police station sobering up and explaining how I got there. Assaults were mandatorily reported upon ER admission to the police, who took me into custody. I found the Dubai police unsympathetic to any situation wherein alcohol is involved. Having my job sponsored by the Dubai Municipality itself probably kept me from being ejected from the country.

    “Next” would have been a much grander idea.


    • Yikes. Gulf Arab countries are the biggest sausagefests on the planet, so I can imagine that the few men who managed to get a hot girlfriend will be a little aggressive about keeping them.


    • Situational awareness. Roosh wrote a nice fiction story along the same lines but it took place in Russia.


    • on October 10, 2014 at 5:24 pm haunted trilobite

      Another throat-cutter sucker punch. Reminds me to thank you thwack for your advice in a previous thread. I’m quite happy not to have got into it with any Ali stabbas though. Live to fight another day like brave sir robin is often the best tactic


  14. Judging Your Responses To ‘No Girl’

    This is one of the reasons that I am a firm believer in setting things up to favor me. I wouldn’t even approach such a woman – reason, she’s a 5 (and I’m being generous) that thinks she’s a 9. Ergo, not worth my time.

    In a situation like the above, I would say something like, “Don’t flatter yourself” and order a drink from the bartender then walk away. I’ve found that women like that – generally have a LOT more negatives that will lower that 5 in looks down to about a 2 or 3… I always go with my gut… Some women just aren’t worth the effort – that’s one in spades…


    • “I’ve found that women like that – generally have a LOT more negatives that will lower that 5 in looks down to about a 2 or 3… I always go with my gut… Some women just aren’t worth the effort – that’s one in spades…”



  15. Since you asked how good is my state control, I will have you know that I am an enneagram Four and that my psychological virtue is equanimity. I could drop that line even if the world was ending right behind me.
    But you are right, I would not get that girl with that line. Needs improvement.


  16. on October 10, 2014 at 3:43 pm Hymen Mingesky

    Surprised nobody would ask “a hitler fan too, eh?”


    • That’s merely the informal heil… a true fan always uses the stiff-armed formal version.



  17. The teenage girls who abandoned their families in Austria to become jihadis for ISIS feel they’re made a terrible mistake by joining the barbaric lifestyle and they want to come home. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3213689/posts


    • Like

      • Getting knocked up by ISIS dune coons and then running home to some Euro-weenie provider dweeb has gotta qualify as the ne plus ultra of “Alpha fux Beta bux”.


      • jooish theater to get you proles all worked up


      • Also, they’re not Austrians. They’re Bosnian Muslims.


      • HB5+ & HB7+ Bosnian Muslim-ettes who got a taste of Euroweenie “Beta Bux” and now they want more. Frigging moon-god-worshipping mudshark grifters.


      • on October 10, 2014 at 8:56 pm scipio africanus

        Should be no
        re-admittance – of course these weak pussy cultures will welcome them back with open arms. Sad


      • on October 11, 2014 at 4:34 am haunted trilobite

        Thwack, do you really subscribe to the view (which David icke expressed) that this is all an NWO chess game to initiate ww3? There’s talk that FEMA has stockpile a billion plus rounds of ammo, along with guillitines and transportion trains. This could point towards massive quarantine for the ebola outbreak, or martial law. It seems like science fiction conspiracy theory, but with the twin towers being so obviously a demolition, anything is possible. AmIrite?


      • Getting knocked up by ISIS dune coons and then running home to some Euro-weenie provider dweeb

        You have some American conservative attitude about how Europeans are all leftists that must be insulted? That’s what neocons sell when Europeans are reluctant to join their bombing campaigns against Israel’s targets. And U.S. leftists pretend that Europeans are all on their side. “In Europe they do this already!”

        Meanwhile in Europe, leftists pretend that conservative Americans are “racists” who are in power and who oppress the Blacks and the poor, and commit school massacres because they are obsessed with guns.

        And besides, those are Bosnians. Calling the Balkans Europe is like calling Mexico America. It’s the same geographical area, yeah. And Bosnians/Mexicans aren’t Black. That doesn’t make them part of Whitedom.


    • Let them suffer for their choices. Actions have consequences and letting these two suffer might convince some other girls to not be so damn stupid.


    • on October 10, 2014 at 7:45 pm Just Went Rogue

      Am I the only one who sees through this obvious ploy to install ISIS agents in a Western country? The girls have already been worked over and impregnated by so much dusty dick. It doesn’t make sense for them to come running home now.


    • on October 11, 2014 at 4:13 am haunted trilobite

      Scipio,an average club dancer grrl gets 257 facebook requests from desperate horny club patrons in a single night. Imagine how many bleeding heart male feminists will try to digitally weasel their way into these poor victims’ lives to ‘console’ them and show them what nice guys they are. A book deal ala foxy knoxy and these peasants will be superstars. Weak, pitiful, pussy-pedestaling man.


  18. To clarify: It doesn’t matter whether you have another set to open nearby or not. There are ways to DHV that involve directly DHV’ing to the girl herself or indirectly DHV’ing by doing something in her vicinity (and she’s aware of it) that makes her perceive you as higher value. That’s the binary it comes down to.

    When she gives you an instant “NO!”, she’s cut off the ability to DHV directly TO her because she’s backturned you and dismissed you. She’s probably not still engaging with you (I’m talking about legit “NO!” girls not just flirty girls who are shit-testing you), which is why she’s not going to listen to the witty quips/negs/burns/etc. or classify them as anything other than butthurt. You’re basically trying to call the pizza place to put in an order after the place has closed for the night. Even if you have a really convincing reason why you should be delivered a pizza, there’s no one there to answer the phone.

    So that leaves you with indirect methods of DHV’ing. The easiest one is Social Proof, which is what I recommend, because it’s the most versatile…anyone can be used for social proof, guys, girls, fat old women, your wingman or bros, a former fuckbuddy, the busboy who collects glasses, the store clerk, a bartender on the other side of an empty bar (in a crowded bar she can’t see you DHV’ing with a bartender on the other side of the room because of the crowd blocking her view)…you can use anyone at all, just be cool and make them smile and it DHVs that you’re a social guy that people like. A classic oldschool move BradP (I think) came up with is to approach the hottest set of girls in the club when you first walk in, using a totally indirect opener asking for advice about your girlfriend so she likely won’t shoot you down, and then pull out your phone and show her a text and send a text while you talk to her…to the people watching (and everyone is watching if it’s early in the night and you just rolled up to the hottest set in the club), it looks like you opened, then got her phone number and showed her the phone to make sure her number was right lol

    But if there’s literally NO ONE else in the area, other possibilities are to demonstrate some kind of amazing talent/skill nearby (like dancing solo on an empty dance floor), or try flashing money in some subtle way (tho you risk being categorized as a potential Provider)…or I don’t know, faking a high-value phone call of some kind? This all gets into pretty silly territory quickly because you’re alone and trying to demonstrate high-value when if you were ACTUALLY high-value you probably wouldn’t be alone in the first place lol It’s like trying to use a red crayon to draw something green.

    So it’s not that opening another set within earshot, or saying the specific words about losing my virginity, etc. are the magic recipe that works. It’s that logically there are X number of ways to DHV, and the instant “NO!” removes Y percentage of those ways to DHV (all the direct ways are removed), and of the remaining Z number of ways to DHV (the indirect ways that are left), social proof is the easiest and most reliable and versatile and highest percentage play for DHVing indirectly.

    1s and 0s, this is all just applying logic.


    • Also if I was totally FORCED to interact with her, like we were trapped in a stuck elevator with nowhere to go and no one else to interact with, I would go the “woah, relax I have a girlfriend (with a smile)” or “woah, relax, I was just going to ask if you knew the time, my phone is dead and I have an appointment I’m late for (with a smile)” route to totally disqualify myself to then come back in under the radar indirectly over time (ie – I’m disqualifying myself to buy myself potential time to DHV directly).

      But in an environment where we can walk away from eachother, this isn’t as likely to work because in an enclosed environment where we both know we’ll be stuck with eachother for a bit she has more incentive to give me a break and try to make nice so our stay isn’t awkward.

      So of the options listed in the OP, in a scenario where we can both walk away (VS an elevator situ where negs/insults/etc. will increase awkwardness and her fear of being raped lol), the ones that involve MASSIVE disqualification (“woah, relax, I thought you were my girlfriend’s friend, she just died”, “woah, relax, you’re not my type”, “woah, relax, I’m taken”, “woah, relax, I was just going to ask where the bathroom is” etc. type ones) are the ones that are the most likely to work and the type that I use to turn this around when I’ve had no choice, but they’re still just overall going to be a much lower percentage play than social proof because they rely on her active participation (if she’s past a certain “No!” point she won’t believe you or won’t let you even get the words out, if she’s only a half-assed “No!” then she MIGHT) whereas social proof requires nothing from her.

      I say it in a bored voice tone like I’m telling a kid “no you can’t have a rocket ship” for the 100th time, and because I’m older I use an age disqualifier.

      So it looks something like “woah, relax, you’re too young for me. I just want to know where the bathroom is, I have to take a piss. Jesus (in an annoyed tone).” (disqualify her as being too young, and disqualify myself by being crude and just looking for the bathroom). Then if I feel like the opening is there (ie – she answers me with a real answer instead of a brush-off vague point to the bathroom or an “I don’t know”, or she apologizes for brushing me off), I’ll transition into stuff like “shit, you must get hit on a lot to throw the hand up THAT fast. What’s so special about YOU?”

      But even pulling this off takes the right circumstances and a lot of calibration in the moment…if you’re in a crowded bar and it’s natural to open them, sure, they might believe your disqualifying of yourself. But if the bar is mostly empty and you had to walk from across the room to approach their set AND they’re exceptionally hot, they KNOW you don’t really care where the bathroom is so you’re just starting from a handicap entirely (whereas using social proof would allow you to just lol and keep walking and chat whoever’s near them as if they were the ones you really meant to come chat with).

      So I can’t recommend this route over social proof because it’s going to be reliant on a ton of uncontrollable variables and in-the-moment calibration to pull off consistently, VS something like social proof which is inherently more consistently going to work. I always recommend the optimal route first…there’s no reason to get swirly twirly fancy if you can pull off the bee-line for the goal.


    • Wtf? I get that pua techniques and game help people get laid…but do you not have any actual value at all… Seriously all of your posts are excellent for game and pua, but it makes it sound like you’re a loser with no actual value.

      9.5/10 times the ‘no girl’ won’t even care….

      The ‘no girl’ is a NEXT. Why the fuck would you a. Get a drink thrown at you (seen it happen many times) and b. Put effort into a bitch like this…

      Find another girl who doesn’t have a stick up your ass and isn’t making your life hard…


      • “The ‘no girl’ is a NEXT.”

        Can’t Next a girl you haven’t fucked. That’s her Next’ing you because your game wasn’t tight enough to turn it around and your butthurt ego wants to protect itself. It’s fine to give up and admit you don’t know how to turn it around, you don’t have to go for every girl, but understand that you are giving up, not Next’ing her, because Next’ing is something you do with a girl you can GET. Giving up is what you do with a girl you were unable to get.

        “Why the fuck would you a. Get a drink thrown at you (seen it happen many times) and b. Put effort into a bitch like this… Find another girl who doesn’t have a stick up your ass and isn’t making your life hard…”

        Because for some guys pickup isn’t just about sex or we’d buy hookers. Why the fuck would you climb Mount Everest when you can climb the hill children play on at the local park?

        Growth comes from challenging yourself.


      • “That’s her Next’ing you because your game wasn’t tight enough to turn it around and your butthurt ego wants to protect itself.”

        this is where you keep getting it wrong. refusing to waste your time on a girl who isn’t worth it isn’t butthurt or about an ego hit. it’s about knowing you are of too high value to waste your time on people who are beneath you.


      • Yeah that’s my point. It’s good for pua…

        Someone with value doesn’t need to jump over these hurdles. There are simply girls that you shouldn’t bother with (in my opinion). It’s kinda like when your at a strip club and this one ugly stripper keeps harassing you for money for a lap dance and you said no already…

        if your goal is to jump over hurdles and challenge yourself to hook up with bitchy girls then cool have fun with that. And ok ‘Yareally’ I bet having sex with girls has nothing to do with your motivation and interest in pickup.

        The ‘no girl’ has a ‘caution: will throw drink at you’ tag on her or she won’t even care about your indirect dhv of faking to get a number. Maybe 1/20 the no girl will notice and be approachable again.

        Yareally’s advice is good. But, it borders the ‘trying too hard’ that is not congruent with healthy behavior for a high value man.


      • And again I am not hating on your advice I think you give some of the best advice. And I think it helps tons of people out myself included


      • Also, going and hitting on another group of girls IS ‘nexting’ or moving on from the bitchy ‘no girl’…..


      • Game is about psychological dominance…. When you get hooked on that, sex pales in comparison. It’s merely a pleasant way to keep score.

        You guys who are all Elliot Rodger about your purported value and wasting time are not playing the same sport, let alone game.

        Step out of your comfy ego and strive for the possible, not merely the probable. Try it sometimes. You will be amazed at what you find.

        This is the spirit in which the original hypothetical was posted. It’s fun to figure out how to solve problems, even hard ones. Some interesting thoughts and discussion came out of it.


      • @Sentient “game is about psychological dominance..” – BINGO.

        As I start to get better at this stuff I’m starting to realize this. I can get sex from several women..but the rush is in getting into her mind.


      • Game is about psychological dominance…. When you get hooked on that, sex pales in comparison. It’s merely a pleasant way to keep score.

        You guys who are all Elliot Rodger about your purported value and wasting time are not playing the same sport, let alone game.

        Step out of your comfy ego and strive for the possible, not merely the probable. Try it sometimes. You will be amazed at what you find.

        This is the spirit in which the original hypothetical was posted. It’s fun to figure out how to solve problems, even hard ones. Some interesting thoughts and discussion came out of it.

        Much truth in this.

        Apart from sex and girlfriends, game has given me some great experiences. And let me meet people and go places I wouldn’t have gone otherwise. Doesn’t have to be exotic locations, just seeing more of my own surroundings, and learning about people’s lives. Many years out of college it is fun to sleep with a girl in her dorm room. And it is fun to have a woman text you for a meeting at her hotel room next time she’s in town.


      • We’re talking about a situation with the ‘no girl’ for guys who’s life mission isn’t pua


      • @sentient
        “Game is about psychological dominance…. When you get hooked on that, sex pales in comparison. It’s merely a pleasant way to keep score.”

        You sound delusional or mental.

        please elaborate.


      • @will

        Game Denialist: This Rubik’s cube is impossible to solve!!!! I am too high value to figure this out, NEXT! Ha, showed that stupid cube…

        Game Master: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0pFZG7j5cE

        4 seconds later… Here you go Will…

        Game, Will, is the ability to solve life’s problems… to know the answers before you ask the questions… to get what YOU want in all circumstances.

        Is that delusional? Or is the delusion thinking you cant?

        I’ll post more in another thread about this purported high value nonsense…


      • You still sound delusional.

        All I’m saying is that the best thing imo to do with the ‘no girl’ is go hit on another set of hot girls. Not with a strategizing mindset of ‘oh I’ll show her, watch me fake her out and get a fake number from this chick. This will dhv her and she’ll gain more interest”.

        No. Part of what I’m saying is this girl most of the time won’t give a fuck if you go do that, and she probably won’t even notice. 1 time out of 15 or 20 she will and she’ll be noticeably more approachable. But even by then you’ll probably be gaming some newer hotter girl.
        Part of being high value is knowing a good amount of people. Find a friend or someone you went out with then meet a girl easily that way so that the girl will be more approachable.

        Again high smv guys (take CH’s test) know that the ‘no girl’ is available to game but probably not worth it. It’s part of abundance mentally. Some of you are just regurgitating and applying game principles/techniques on this certain situation without looking at it in the big picture


  19. when this happens i just next, unless there’s few women out
    i can remember only one time i salvaged the convo after something this abrupt and it was because i just plowed and didn’t acknowledge her rudeness, it was a while ago so i can’t remember the outcome
    asshole game works wonders here because she’s using the shield to weed out beta nice guys who will run with tail between their legs
    another thing I’ve done is actually call her out on the rudeness for what it is, weeding out losers, this sets you up as “in the know” and on her playing field and works as a good ice breaker too
    from there you can make fun of her by pointing out a ‘really nice guy’ that would be perfect for her, “i bet he’d buy you flowers and teddybears”

    i don’t get all the butthurtness, revenge, and face-saving going on here, it’s a goddamn circus out there and nobody cares beyond the morning, go make fools of yourself and cause an embarrassing scene or two (not if you’re a regular there), 10 minutes later nobody remembers it and you’ll wonder why you cared in the first place


  20. on October 10, 2014 at 4:59 pm Mean Mr. Mustard

    or; Pull back and exclaim in a loud voice …
    “Fifty dollars!?… NO; I will NOT have sex with you for fifty dollars!”
    …. then walk away in mock disbelief.


  21. “Well, I guess some other girl is gonna get luckier than you tonight.”


  22. Start the countdown on Nadella. He made the fatal mistake of apologizing to the Hivemind, also known as “slashing your own wrists in the shark-infested sewer.”


    ‘At the conference, called the Grace Hopper Celebration of Women in Computing, he said: “It’s not really about asking for the raise, but knowing and having faith that the system will actually give you the right raises as you go along. Because that’s good karma. It’ll come back because somebody’s going to know that’s the kind of person that I want to trust,” he said.

    The comments sparked outrage and Mr Nadella has now apologised. In an email to staff, he said he answered the question “completely wrong” and “wholeheartedly” supported programmes to close the pay gap.’


  23. Similar to the ‘no’ girl, I’ve had a girl just ignore me. A hard 9 with a big rock on her wedding finger. I couldn’t tell if it was real. I tried to open her and she just looked right past me, as if I were an apparition that wished to imagine out of existence. I expected resistance but not a complete freeze-out. All I could muster in the moment was, whoever put that rock on your finger is a fucking idiot, and walked off. I’m still trying to think of a better way to handle the complete freeze-out. Any innovations out there?


    • “Nice chatting with you. What’s that on your shoe?” And then smile and walk away when she looks down and sees nothing wrong with her shoes.


    • “I tried to open her and she just looked right past me”

      kind of like what we do to a 5 or below when they try to open us. they don’t exist.

      “A hard 9 with a big rock on her wedding finger.”

      she doesn’t want what you’re selling.

      “whoever put that rock on your finger is a fucking idiot”

      more likely an alpha who fucks her brains out to the point that she doesn’t even acknowledge other men who try to open her.

      “I expected resistance but not a complete freeze-out.”

      there are plenty of single HBs out there. don’t waste your time trying to fuck up some other dude’s life.

      just because we can fuck married HBs doesn’t mean we should. lots of bros on here complain about the decline of westen civilization.

      trying to stick our cocks in married women is partly to blame for that decline.


  24. The 2 best faces you will ever see on a woman are 1. when she has cum harder than she ever has before, 2. when you have tuned up your instruments and played thru a piece of music that you both love – and hit every note, especially the last – dead on.
    There really is no 3rd place.


  25. on October 10, 2014 at 5:52 pm Reservoir Tip

    Has anyone noticed how hipster/SWPL girls have begun to dye their hair gray?

    What the hell is going on here. It’s been popping up both on campus and in my Facebook feed, with girls giving others the classic, “you go girl!” Every time. This is a sickness.

    SWPLs not only dress like old people, but they dye their hair gray to match.


  26. This happened to me once, and I managed to come back with “Well, if you won’t move, I guess I’ll go around the table to talk to your hot friend.” Got me a few tumbles, but she held a grudge over it.


  27. The problem with DOBA’s response is that it’s too long, you just don’t get the time to say that much. Your reply has to be short and sweet, hence I go with the “nuke the bitch from orbit, it’s the only way she will learn not to do that shit again” crowd.


  28. “I’m not a palm reader, I’m a gynecologist. C U Next Tuesday?”


  29. Heartiste,

    This is completely off topic, but check out this guy’s artwork:


    It truly captures: diversity + proximity = war



  30. FR from last night’s first date with a MILFy online HB7 – no questions as such, just interesting and a couple things I don’t understand, because it was my first time experiencing what YaReally says about disqualifying yourself as a Provider and how it can help.

    Bottom line: Meeting to toilet BJ in 1 hr 45 min.

    All the key points were there – it was really a standard (good) date – usual DHV stories, usual kino (good responses, no resistance, kiss first time) etc. Not worth repeating.

    The interesting bit was how early on she was a bit reserved (the kino was good and she wasn’t resisting at all, but verbally she was a bit reserved). Basically she kept talking about how she’d met some weirdos online and what she wanted from online dating (which was basically to find a Provider – in fairly explicit terms) and obv I’m a good candidate cos I have a good job and make good money etc.

    I held my frame and let her talk (up to a point) and then she asked what I wanted and I made it explicitly clear that I was looking to date fun women but I travelled a lot for work and simply wasn’t looking to take care of a woman or evne have a serious relationship.

    And I kept escalating as normal. I got to the kiss (easy but reserved) and at this point I was thinking I need to set her up for a day 2.

    About an hour in, it was as if a switch flipped and she went in the space of a few minutes from being a touch reserved to being *really* turned on and *she* started to move faster than me in sexualizing at one point – shortly after I kissed her a few times SHE started talking about her sexual fantasies (she wants to be Maggie Gyllenhaal in Secretary) and then I realized the door was open and pushed hard and we got really filthy in whispers in the bar.

    Got her out of the bar into the toilet and it was one of the easiest toilet BJs I’ve had ever. Zero resistance. She loved it and thanked me.

    Interesting things:

    1. I’m not sure why her switch flipped so fast to being turned on and willing to do anything but think it had to do with me disqualifying as a provider

    2. When I was walking her back to her car she talked about how she had another female friend who would really be into me and would probably stalk me but her friend was too old for me plus her friend wanted a relationship which I didn’t want. I mean WTF? Why would the woman who has just given me a BJ be talking about hooking me up with her friend??


    • @Culum
      “1. I’m not sure why her switch flipped so fast to being turned on and willing to do anything but think it had to do with me disqualifying as a provider”

      Ya, usually when this happens it’s because you SAID you weren’t the Provider type and she doesn’t necessarily believe it yet, she’ll still try to test you and WANTS you to be the Provider, but at some point you pass enough of her tests congruently as the Lover (and those tests are personal to her so the point where she decides it is different for each chick, all YOU can do is just watch for that window and jump through the opening when it’s there) and she decides “ok, he’s the Lover not the Provider”. If you had played up the Provider angle you would probably have to wait 3 or 4 dates for bedroom sex so you don’t think she’s a “slut”.

      Once she’s decided you’re a Lover not a Provider, you get to see the side of her that Lovers see and Providers literally may NEVER see even if they marry and settle with her. Thus the situation where a girl has a hidden gangbang or BDSM video but has never done that stuff with her beta husband lol

      This is another reason why society’s goals are kind of silly. They tell you “get a good job, become a doctor, be rich and drive a BMW” and that’s great for getting attention, but it’s also great for getting a lot of ASD/LMR from girls who don’t want to come off “slutty” and want you to consider dating and Providing for them, and it’s also great for getting a lot of Buyer’s Remorse if you bang them quick and DON’T date them after because they aren’t just losing some dude, they’re losing potentially being Tony Stark’s girlfriend.

      When the girl thinks you’re a scumbag, she’ll do all sorts of shit because it’s okay, she doesn’t care if you think she’s “slutty”, and if you encourage it and tell her the “slutty” stuff is sexy to you, then she embraces that side of her full-out and you become her escape from the judgement of the real world and normal people.

      Guys who haven’t gone down this route don’t understand any of this because if I told you about it before it happened to you you would lol and go “ya okay there YaReally” just like they will.

      “2. When I was walking her back to her car she talked about how she had another female friend who would really be into me and would probably stalk me but her friend was too old for me plus her friend wanted a relationship which I didn’t want. I mean WTF? Why would the woman who has just given me a BJ be talking about hooking me up with her friend??”

      Welcome to the “secret society”:


      This is just what happens for guys who are in the Lover category. I’ve had fuckbuddies literally give my number to their girlfriends and I just get a txt saying “hey this is Sarah’s friend” and they want to bone. Another girl I used to bang before I moved txted me to tell me her friend is visiting my area and can she give her my number because she told her about what I’m like in bed and she wants to hook up. I get topless pics from a hot tub of girls who have boyfriends because they’re my FBs friend and they’re all drinking together talking about boys and she tells them about me.

      A buddy of mine went thru a phase where he kept getting 3somes and 90% of the time it was the girls bringing their friends to him to bang him. One time he pulled the switch on them and stopped seeing the original girl to just see her friend instead lol that shit was drama for a couple months.

      I’m not saying all this to brag or anything, this isn’t like “oh man, how can I impress these internet d00dz??” This is just the normal reality of guys who are in the Lover category. This is just the reality we live in. I was as skeptical as anyone before I got hardcore into PUA. I was fully entrenched in the Disney unicorn belief system. But I just kept going out and working on my game and had all those beliefs shattered until I’m where I am now, same way you’re doing.

      And ya, she’s probably not texting because you’re not what she’s looking for. Older chicks are quick to cut guys off ’cause they know they’ll get addicted and have a countdown clock to find a Provider. But even tho you aren’t the Provider, in that moment, that night, you were the Lover and it was either have fun and adventure or go home to watch reality TV so because you pushed it you got the BJ.

      I would say there’s a solid 90% chance that if you had simply ended the date at that one point, and attempted to arrange another date to try to escalate on, you would have gotten the “I’m sorry I just don’t think we’re looking for the same thing” text because in the moment all she has to do to have fun is just go along with it, but asking her to come out again means putting in effort and choosing to be with a Lover instead of a Provider which is going against her goals. Same way if you’re on a diet you won’t go buy a donut but if someone at the office brings donuts you might have one because you can rationalize that it’s not your fault.

      I would personally just leave her alone. She’s not looking for what you’re offering, and she has a limited time left. It’s not cool to me to waste a chick’s last few child-bearing years. If she was chasing you, that’s a bit different, but if she’s trying to cut you off, I would just respect that and back off. If she txts I’d just wish her luck and tell her we had fun but I understand she’s looking for more and I hope she finds it because she’s a sweet girl bla bla so she still likes me and down the road she may drunk text me or we may run into eachother at the bar and bang again lol


      • @YaReally – thanks dude, yeah it feels like I’m just starting to “see the matrix” and it’s a great view..

        LOL @ “Tony Stark’s girlfriend”

        The MILFy chick did eventually reply (late) saying she had fun too..I’m not that bothered about seeing her again but I’m going to send a jokey text telling her to introduce her friend as long her friend is fun and cool..I suspect she won’t (I think the moment for that was lost) but I don’t care about burning the MILF..


      • PS @YaReally – thanks for your line about your paunch (somewhere in your old posts) – it’s gold.

        Was on another first date (HB8 24 year old) and we were kissing and she rubbed my chest and stomach and teased me saying I had a little paunch and I just LOLed and told her to rub it harder for luck.

        Heavy makeout+had her tits out an hour later in the toilet but she wasn’t turned on enough for the BJ..all learning exp though. Bit of a gold-digger too – wants a guy to “spoil” her and stuff so I probably wont’ see her again unless she texts.


      • on October 12, 2014 at 3:55 pm Just Went Rogue

        “When the girl thinks you’re a scumbag, she’ll do all sorts of shit because it’s okay, she doesn’t care if you think she’s “slutty”, and if you encourage it and tell her the “slutty” stuff is sexy to you, then she embraces that side of her full-out and you become her escape from the judgement of the real world and normal people.”

        If this is true, and I don’t doubt that it is, then it basically invalidates all of civilization and what men have worked to accomplish. So I ask you, YaReally, assuming you aren’t a bullshitter, how do you shed the bitterness towards reality and women? Obviously you are in a place where you get what you want from women, but for someone who isn’t and is struggling with being lied to all their life, what do you recommend?

        I ask because I can’t help but feel bitter sometimes…if women are really just concubines for unproductive scumbags, why even bother to work towards anything more than being a scumbag? I’m also curious how you feel about taking advantage of all the luxuries and conveniences of modern society that providers have built, allowing you to live the life of cad. Hate to bring morals into it but I’m still dangling on the threshold of what is right and what is wrong right now.


      • @Culum
        “but I’m going to send a jokey text telling her to introduce her friend as long her friend is fun and cool”

        You CAN do this, but I’d say there’s like a 99% chance that it’s going to 1) definitely not get her to hook you up with her friend lol, and 2) probably going to make her feel used/slutty and not want to see you again. Like, there’s no benefit to sending this text.

        She was just emotional in the moment riding the attraction waves and like if her friend had been in the room at that moment she’d go for it, but to follow-up specifically asking for it will make her feel like she was much less special than she’s hopefully feeling now.

        Most of the time when girls do this stuff for me it’s completely on their accord and I just play along. I don’t ask for their friend’s number, I just randomly get a text from that friend and find out she gave my number to her etc. Like it’s 100% in their court to decide they’re cool with it and see it thru till everyone’s in the same room where shit can actually go down. At that point the guy has to take over and lead from there, but to get TO that point it’s all about the girl and what she’s going to make happen.

        Not that it CAN’T work (everything in pickup is just playing the percentages like being “good” at poker), but it would just really surprise me if it did lol

        I would just leave her alone (radio silence) until she txts again in a few weeks when she’s inevitably horny and still hasn’t found her Tony Stark. Like I would go into full no fucks given mode where she can chase me and approach me to meet up and meet me on my terms (ideally at my apartment, dressed sexy, so I don’t have to do anything but shower up and open my door) and if she does, awesome, if she doesn’t who cares.

        MAYBE at that point you could say “bring a hot friend” and she’ll figure out schedules and stuff to drag that girl out and seed a bunch of the groundwork on her own, but I would just take the convenient solo bangs from her until she brings it up again herself and then show definite interest in the idea while you’re cuddled up after some orgasms so it’s a firmer idea in her head.


      • @YaReally – that makes sense – thanks dude. I have a bunch of other online girls in the rotation anyway


      • @Just Went Rogue
        “If this is true, and I don’t doubt that it is, then it basically invalidates all of civilization and what men have worked to accomplish”

        Scary thought, hey? A lot of pickup denial and madonna/whore complex is based in the reality being too scary/fucked up/depressing to accept. The same way people create the idea of heaven and hell because the reality that sometimes shitty people succeed with no repercussions and sometimes good people get shit on for no reason other than the randomness of the universe, and the lack of control over our lives and lack of fairness that’s implicated by that reality is too depressing to accept so people create the idea that after death the bad people will “get theirs” and the good people will be rewarded and run into the ghostly arms of their loved ones they miss.

        Also I used the word “scumbag” because that’s a better visual, but a Tony Stark who’s simply not interested in LTRs or commitment would be capable of fitting into the Lover category to the girl to see the same side of her the scumbag sees…BUT, Tony Stark’s money, cars, mansion, looks, success, etc. will often work against him because those are things that girls categorize as Provider attributes. So they can essentially become a handicap and he has to work harder to move from being instantly classified as a potential Provider when he rolls up in his BMW, to being seen as a Lover instead, and he’ll get a lot more resistance to that because with his external assets she WANTS him to be a Provider…whereas the guy who looks normal/average isn’t categorized into Provider or Lover until she interacts with him so he has easier flexibility, and the scumbag automatically rules himself out as a potential Provider because he lacks all those external assets, so he gets the “Easy Mode” version of seeing her “slutty” side because he’s already by default categorized only as a Lover.

        And, of course, if he starts seeing her more than once a week too often and taking her to dinners etc. he can end up transitioning into potential Provider territory where she’s going to deliver The Ultimatum (“I can’t do this anymore, I like you too much, if we aren’t going to be serious then I can’t see you anymore” (which is of course simply a Long Soft Next For Temporary Exclusivity as Blackdragon talks about here: http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2014/10/12/important-ignore-breakup/ )). So we have rules for casual fuckbuddies, like not seeing them more than once a week, not meeting up to do boyfriend/girlfriend shit (keep it to sex), don’t promise monogamy, etc. to try to counter that or prevent it as long as possible.

        “how do you shed the bitterness towards reality and women? Obviously you are in a place where you get what you want from women, but for someone who isn’t and is struggling with being lied to all their life, what do you recommend?”

        Don’t worry, this is a common stage of digesting the Red Pill. Here’s a bit on it (click the link for more in-depth stuff):

        From my archive ( http://yareallyarchive.com/2012/9/#comment-heartiste-367897 ):

        “This is the same illusion-shattering concept as when you realize your CEO job won’t get you the pussy society built the illusion in your head that you’d get, your best friend did something unforgivable to you because they’re human and not perfect like the illusion you built up for them, and when women realize they’ve hit the wall and wasted their high-SMV years without securing a future because feminism built the illusion in their heads that there would be men a-plenty at 30+. Your world goes from black and white to shades of grey and you’re forced to contemplate “if everything I was so sure about was wrong, what else am I wrong about?” and you’re entire core, identity, life, purpose, goals, etc. are rocked.

        It’s at this tipping point that a person goes down two paths:

        1) Depression. You become jaded, cynical, sad, miserable, and feel defeated. Life feels pointless and hopeless as your brain comes to terms with the new realizations that just butt-fucked everything you held close to your core about how the world works. You become bitter, angry at the world, frustrated by the unfairness, and probably end up a MGTOW (to be fair, you can become a MGTOW in a healthy positive way too, I don’t think they’re all bitter losers despite their shitty Public Relations lol). This can also be the catalyst for removing yourself from the game entire (certain types of MGTOWs, the grass eaters movement in Japan, etc. The only difference with these groups is that there’s more of a head-in-the-sand “fuck it then, I’m outta here, good luck with all that shit y’all” mentality, which, technically speaking is actually a little healthier than reveling in the depression from a day-to-day happiness standpoint lol)

        2) Acceptance. You accept the pain and shell-shock of what’s happening as a natural thing and eventually overcome it. You find new ways to appreciate the world around you despite it’s faults and you learn to accept reality for what it really is: flawed and imperfect but often filled with good things if you look for them. You realize that people are the same, we all have potential for good and bad, and that all of that is simply societal judgement attempting to solidify shades of grey into black and white for easier processing and teaching to new generations and to keep society stable.

        A person can go through a period of Depression and end up in Acceptance, but it’s a difficult climb. How much of your identiy, reality, beliefs, hopes, future projections, etc. you based on your beliefs is a big part of what determines which path you go down. When I swallowed the red pill, I had no problem traveling the Acceptance path because I had so little experience with women that I had no part of my world based on them except the occasional day-dream about the white-picket fence life. Most of the middle-of-the-road madonna/whore complex guys tend to have much more wrapped up in their beliefs on how women are or should be, so they can go either way. The stereotypical angry bitter MRA types have usually been so burned by women that their whole identity/life/etc. was shattered by the red-pill which is why they tend to end up on the Depression/MGTOW path.”

        “I ask because I can’t help but feel bitter sometimes…if women are really just concubines for unproductive scumbags, why even bother to work towards anything more than being a scumbag?”

        Welcome to the reason no one wants you to find out about the Red Pill or Game and why family courts are so in favor of fucking over fathers. 🙂

        Most men in society are only working to achieve success in hopes of getting or maintaining pussy (or a loving wife and kids, whatever). Take that away and men have no reason to work so hard.

        Bob working 3 jobs to pay child support, alimony, and pay for the engagement ring and upcoming wedding to his next wife is good for society. Bob is going to get a lot of work done and keep society functioning like a good little slave. Sure, he may die from stress at 45 while his first ex-wife tells his kids he was a no good bum because he missed a few wildly unfair child support payments when he lost his job and wasn’t able to get the payments reduced to match his new job’s lower income level as he gets classed in the statistics Feminists use when they yap about the prevalence of “deadbeat dads”…but at least he helped keep society going by doing the work of 3 men, because men are just tools to be utilized by society and be walking ATMs until they finally break and we give no fucks if they off themselves or end up homeless the same way we toss out a broken hammer.

        And hey, maybe Bob will live to be 60+ where he can finally retire (if his ex-wife hasn’t taken his retirement fund) and start to enjoy life when he’s too old to get his dick hard to do anything because he spent all that time working instead of taking care of his health and now he’s 250lbs and sick all the time. Way to go Bob, you lived the dream!

        The other option is that men learn to work for themselves, and for their own goals and purposes, instead of for others, which is much healthier. It means they’ll be productive, but on their terms and in ways they find meaningful. But it also means each man will only work as much as he wants to, some men may want to make a bunch of money or become famous but some may be happy just running a little personal business that pays the rent and lets them go fishing all week, and the money and success that they have will no longer be funneled directly to women and society, it’ll instead directly benefit the man himself and allow him freedom and choice in his life. This is why while I wouldn’t go MGTOW myself and I think they have some incorrect ideas on PUA stuff, I can respect that they’ve made a decision to find fulfillment in life based on their own personal happiness instead of letting society define what their goals should be.

        The big problem there is that society has actively conditioned men to view themselves as tools to be used by other people, and to sacrifice ourselves for others instead of caring about what we want or what makes us happy, and they taunt us and call us “man-children” and say we have “peter pan syndrome” for daring to want to be happy in a way that doesn’t fit the social narrative of working to produce for other people’s benefit…so take away the Blue Pill wife and 2.5 kids white pickett fence happy retirement goal from a guy who’s been socially conditioned to not have any personal sense of purpose and you get a lot of frustrated depressed men who feel aimless and confused and don’t know what to do with their lives and need help/guidance and to find their personal purpose.

        But none of this is good for society. If everyone did it, society would crumble. There would still be Steve Jobs types who are just driven by their own personal desire, but there would be far less of the day to day function. No one CHOOSES the shittiest jobs in society, like sewage stuff, they have to take them because they need the money, but those jobs are important to keep everything running. Give men the option not to do that job and to instead simply live a nice relaxing life making enough to afford a few weekends of golf a month and no one is running the sewage system.

        Fortunately there are plenty of betas and brainwashed dudes to keep the world churning. Society has done an excellent job of getting people to invest in the value system its’ created. Most of us all fell into it. We feel ashamed for not keeping up with the Joneses, we need Calvin Klein underwear instead of generic brand underwear, we drink Coca Cola instead of a glass of water, we pay $100 dinner tabs on dates to eat food that cost $10 to make, and if we start poking our heads out of that fog there are plenty of people who will be lined up to shove us back into it and remind us how embarrassed we should be that we drive a plain car instead of a BMW, and plenty of people lined up to tell us we shouldn’t be learning Game or thinking these “selfish” “man-child” Red Pill thoughts.

        “I’m also curious how you feel about taking advantage of all the luxuries and conveniences of modern society that providers have built, allowing you to live the life of cad.”

        I appreciate what they’ve done for us and I’m glad they did what they did and HOPE that they were rewarded in life with a nice loving committed wife and 2.5 wonderful kids and a white picket fence home though I don’t believe that happens often, if at all.

        Thing is, as a man, I can at least respect the creations of those guys. Whether it’s traveling to fucking space (seriously, wtf) because I know guys who are engineers, or an incredible building that I know men built by hand brick by brick because I know guys who do construction, or the fact that I have a fucking super-computer in my pocket that allows me to talk to people on the other side of the world in real-time as I surf the net on it because I know nerds who work on tech stuff…I appreciate the fuck out of all of that in the same way that I sit down to a good steak dinner and think “god I’m fortunate to be able to enjoy this amazing steak”.

        But I’m also extremely thankful that I was able to escape being one of those guys. I may do stuff and gain success in life in similar ways, but it’ll be entirely on my terms and even then I owe that to the early PUAs who broke their backs in-field figuring all this shit out and selflessly taught it to other men for free back before pickup turned into a business. I’m very aware of what other people have done for me, and thankful for it…and I feel like that appreciation is enough, in my mind, to justify taking advantage of and enjoying that stuff.

        Women tend to take a lot for granted. Nice BMW but it’s blue not black, pfft. Wow a free dinner at the local pub instead of a nice restaraunt? What a cheap-o guy! I can’t even count the number of girls I’ve met who’s phones have cracked screens because they just give no fucks and smack the things around with no appreciation for the incredible technology they’re holding in their hand. A lot of guys take it for granted too, because they’re caught up in “well this giant TV was nice, but this one is 4 inches bigger so fuck this other one I’m sad because I don’t have the best one” when it’s like holy shit I don’t even OWN a TV I would be grateful as fuck to have ANY TV lol

        So I figure most of society is a lot less appreciative of all the wonders of civilization than I am and that helps me sleep at night.

        “Hate to bring morals into it but I’m still dangling on the threshold of what is right and what is wrong right now.”

        There is no right and wrong, there’s only what you feel comfortable with and what you don’t. Decide those things for yourself, push your limits and determine your own value system, don’t let other people (not even me) determine that value system for yourself.

        I’m not trying to convert anyone, all I do is tell people what I see and experience and they’re free to decide what to do with that information. I’m as supportive of the guy who actively chooses to get married and settle down with a wife and 2.5 kids because it’s a goal of his and he wants it (even tho I don’t think it’s likely to succeed), as I am supportive of the guy who’s out slaying one-night-stand poon left and right because he’s actively decided he doesn’t want to settle down into a serious relationship and enjoys variety in his relationships and sex life.

        The important key with both of those guys is that they actively CHOSE what they want based on their personal value system, VS the guy who got married because he was told by society that that’s what you’re supposed to do or he got pressured by his girlfriend or his family into doing it when he wasn’t really sure about it himself…or the guy who goes out running pickup banging girls left and right to fill some empty void or because PUAs told him that’s what a cool alpha male does but he’s not even really enjoying it.

        I don’t care whether you choose option A or option B, all I care about is that you CHOOSE it instead of letting other people choose it for you. That’s the basic foundation of being a man.


      • on October 13, 2014 at 11:21 am Just Went Rogue


        Thanks for the detailed response. Good to know that’s its possible to make sense of your own life amongst the madness.


    • That’s not possible bro! You don’t even drive a BMW!


  31. Just to add to my Field Report comment in mod – two toilet BJs (and one HJ) off 4 first dates this week has really given me a new appreciation for the importance of managing logistics (all three of the above would have been first nights fucks if I could have gotten the girls home).

    Now that I’m better at generating attraction and sexualizing, the logistics aspect is a lot clearer..when you’re more of a novice it’s harder to think much beyond “how do I get this girl to keep talking to me”


    • Update to above Field Report – the woman has not responded to my standard next day comfort text saying I enjoyed myself last night and thank you. This from a woman who always responded instantly to previous texts.

      This isn’t Buyer’s Remorse – then she WOULD have responded to a text after giving me a BJ. My reading is that this is her deciding she doesn’t want to date me if I’m not going to be a Provider and hoping I won’t be too clingy just because we shared a fun sexual experience and good memories..

      Sound about right?


      • who the fuck knows with bitches these days. the provider/lover dynamic may not apply. just freeze her out till she contacts you, if nothing in a week or so throw an accidental pocket text at her. just send her some gibberish. then when she repsonds say oops pocket texted you. if she doesnt then a few hours later say oops pocket texted you. if that doesnt garner a reply then its done. but dont message her until she messages you.


  32. on October 10, 2014 at 8:23 pm scipio africanus

    Answer to the “no” hand:

    Sorry, thought you had downs syndrone and was trying
    to be nice


  33. K.T. Tunstall is a half-mad Scot. A girl folk singer of violent intensity.
    Actually, she is less than 0.1 %different genetically from the green-eyed, red – haired Kurds who are fighting for their lives, as we speak.
    Iraqi Kurds saved my daughters life just because they are very K selected people.
    My plan would be to put several 100 B 52 bombers in the air to carpet bomb anyone in the ME who could not prove they were Kurdish.Then I would get serious.


    • on October 10, 2014 at 8:43 pm scipio africanus

      Whatever you think about the Muslims isn’t it policy to try to win them over – at least the moderates? After all some wanted Turkey as part of Europe. So now we have an opportunity to help the Kurds – who actually seem to want our help and we throw it away. Strange


      • Kurds are the worst vermin of the Middle East. They swarm over Europe looking for welfare. They speed down the road and when the police take them in to the police station they pretend not to understand English – or even be able to read forms in their own language. They do it with a grin because they know the anti-White laws will force the police to let them go, despite them being illegal aliens.

        Kurds are vermin, and the U.S. today allies with the vermin everywhere, against the best people. The U.S. does so because it follows Israel’s orders. The best people in the Middle East oppose Israel’s continued murder of thousands of Palestinians and the taking of their last 22 percent of land, so the U.S. arms the worst against the best.

        Case in point, Afghanistan. The U.S. allied with the Uzbek warlords who gang raped and murdered and who kept the flow of heroin going to Europe – and with the remnants of the communist party. Calling this “the northern alliance” to make them sound cool. The Taliban had stopped the drug production. And they had stopped the trade with young boys as sex slaves. The U.S. brought both of these back in force.

        Or Iraq. Allying with disgusting, Medieval Kurds against the most secular and prosperous nation in the Gulf, Iraq. Which had Christians in government – the Foreign Minister Tariq Aziz for example. Iraq was targeted because President Hussein had given money to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers. These usually know nothing about what their sons are planning, but then Israel’s soldiers come and illegally raze their homes to the ground, destroying all that they own, leaving them destitute. Hussein gave them some money, and for that the Israeli lobby targeted him.

        Or Syria. Allying with Kurds and Iraqi immigrants who started the “Syrian rebellion”. Now the former French Foreign Minister says that on a visit to Britain, he learned that the British government had planned this rebellion long ago, by funding groups among the Iraqi immigrants and Kurds. To destroy the secular, Christian-protecting government.

        Or Georgia. Funding the overthrow of the democratically elected president, then funding a bloated army four times its pre-coup size. Trained by CIA and Mossad – but Israel didn’t have to pay for a thing, all money came from American taxpayers as usual. Then siccing Georgia on the Russians in South Ossetia, because Stalin had written on a piece of paper that Ossetia belonged to his native Georgia. All to humiliate Putin because he has given limited support to Iran and Syria and because he threw out the Jewish oligarchs.

        Or Iran. The Persians are the best people in the Middle East. They are the only non-Western, non-East Asian immigrants in Europe who go to college in the same percentage as Whites. The Persians were targeted because they supported the Palestinians, and because BP wanted their oil. The CIA in Operation Ajax installed the Shah as a dictator, and when he was overthrown waged economic warfare against Iran. Supporting the remaining communist party and Sunni Islamist terrorist groups that murder Iranian officials and bureaucrats and scientists.

        As usual, the U.S. supports terrorism.


  34. With a truly puzzled expression and tone “So you don’t have a boyfriend?”
    A little non-sequitur that, if you’re lucky, makes her go “What? No, I was telling you…” Break in there with a smirk and something like “It’s a little aggressive to share that before I even say hello.” And so on.
    And if she instead responds with more snark (likely) such as “No I don’t have a boyfriend, but I don’t want to talk to you” then you can always mutter “Not hard to believe” as you back-turn.


  35. YaReally, Sentient, HABD and the gang – actually, I do have one quick question.

    While on the above date (big post in mod), I had a text from a girl who flaked on me a couple days ago (ASD after big makeout session/HJ a few days ago). I ignored her, she reinitiated.

    I replied after a couple hours and we (during my date) exchanged some texts in which she asked what I was doing tonight.

    I replied (all truth) saying I was just finishing a date and had to go to a party later but I was going past her place and could do a quick drink in a bar near hers for an hour (I mentioned the date to amp up my social proof and suggested drink in nearby bar so as not to trigger ASD).

    She replied one word: “Date?” and nothing. I replied (was a bit drunk by this point – bad idea) saying “Lol. Just a quick drink before I head to the party..don’t get ideas about getting me drunk and taking advantage”. No reply from her.

    Think I may have lost her but there is a slim possibility the social proofing will work and she will text me in a few days.

    Normally I’m all for social proofing by (casually) mentioning other dates but in this case with a girl with heavy ASD I wonder if I should have run a bit more beta comfort and just said “Just finishing in [area], can swing by for a drink near your place before my party”?


    • “With a friend…” is a more mysterious text. “Date” reactivated her ASD.


      • Yeah walawala – I think that’s what happened. Pity – she has a smoking body and is really into me but not sure how salvageable this is. Oh well – this is how you learn (I wasn’t even drunk when I sent the date text – only when I sent hte next one)


      • @Culum Wait a few weeks and then reach out again like nothing happened. This has happened to me. I waited 4 months. Then met the girl who had blown me off. She could wait to see me again. Following week carted her out, major make out. Logistics prevented a bang.


    • on October 11, 2014 at 11:30 am having a bad day


      ASD…also, did you call your prior ‘engagement’ with said HJ hottie a ‘date’?…or just a hook up? girls don’t like to be ‘down graded’ for other girls = ASD…or ‘second placed’ (which is different than her ‘sharing’) = ASD…lol…more comfort/rapport and NO sexualizing until ‘isolated location’…lol…if you can even get her out again…lol

      also…’quirky friend’ per @wala…lol…

      also, your second text is beta bc you are not owning your ‘date’…lol…although the ambiguity was nice, both reads were qualifying to HJ girl…lol…proper response was ‘lol’…that’s all…lol..

      on your FR above…MILF wants a provider…you have shown you are not a provider (with resultant fun sex…lol…good job on that btw…lol)…so, since people only have so much time, she is probably moving on with looking…BUT she should still be open to fb status until she meets someone to fill that role…and maybe even after that…lol…just let her know that it’s available and that it won’t cost her any time away from ‘looking’ for said provider…lol…but you’re going to have to overcome some ASD…lol…

      on her mentioning her friend = shit test for player status/provider potential = did you ask about her friend at all? (would you do a 40yo Monica Bellucci?…lol)…no = potential provider = ASD…lol…or maybe she wanted you to push for a threesome…lol…but you are right, generally girls don’t ‘share’ unless they have to…lol…

      also, on the ‘fast switch flip’… girls really do LOVE sex…lol…they just are wired to withhold it from betas/providers…get out of that role/potential role and it really is easy as that…lol…also, why would you need to be home for the big F…? no condom in your pocket?…lol…isolated location = isolated location…lol…

      good luck!


      • @walawala – thanks, yeah I’ll try that but fear she is a lost cause – good thing I have two other FWB and had a hotter 24 year old making out and her tits out in the toilet last night on my 5th first date this week 🙂 (couldn’t get her to a HJ or BJ though – she wasn’t *quite* turned on enough and I got a clear no when I tried).

        @HABD – Thanks dude, hadn’t realized that point at all – I think I did talk about “hanging out” or “drinks” with ASD girl and then talking about a “date” with another girl would indeed cheapen her. All your points made me look again at the interaction..fascinating (I did ask about the friend – she said “my friend would love you” and I said “Go on..stroke my ego..tell me” and she explained. I just didn’t take the next step and say “introduce me then..”)


      • @walawala and @habd – update on ASD 23 year old – she texted me Sat night 2am herself (and again today) so the game is on. She’s obviously very attracted and it is warring with her ASD.

        I invited her for dinner today (making an exception) but she’s messing around (flaky even for a 23 year old)..but, as they say, the Game is afoot..

        Now I know she’s into me, it’s just a question of managing the process to meet up again and isolate..this is why Game is fun – it may not be today or this week but I will bang her..


    • “I replied (all truth) saying I was just finishing a date and had to go to a party later but I was going past her place and could do a quick drink in a bar near hers for an hour (I mentioned the date to amp up my social proof and suggested drink in nearby bar so as not to trigger ASD).

      She replied one word: “Date?” and nothing. I replied (was a bit drunk by this point – bad idea) saying “Lol. Just a quick drink before I head to the party..don’t get ideas about getting me drunk and taking advantage”. No reply from her.”

      Ahhh just a bit of over gaming here. It’s hard when you are switching over from a blue pill mindset and always want to be all alpha all the time. But most girls are still blue pill! At least on a conscious level. Sure they will respond to batting down shit tests, dominance etc. But their thinking is still blue pill.

      So a little thing like using the word “date” is going to trigger all kinds of social anxiety issues for her – she can’t tell her girls about this cool new guy she is seeing if you are telling her you are “dating” other girls, etc. – too slutty, too desperate. Like what would she say to her Mom? “Yeah I met this cool guy Culum, he will squeeze me in between the other girls he is dating.” I mean imagine that convo happening, the look on the Mom’s face.

      But when you are a hammer it all looks like nails. For example, I used to treat everything as a shit test, alpha gunning them down immediately. But I came to realize it’s better to have an unshakable frame, and do what you want without concern (which further reinforces your unshakeable frame) and by so doing, you end up defeating the shit tests, projecting your alpha without really trying. So that and slipping in some common sense and even some beta from an alpha frame got me much further.

      So live and learn. Your frame is you are a busy high value guy, not in an exclusive relationship, so of course you will be seeing other women. To even vocalize this fact cheapens it and lowers your value. You are already there!

      And when in doubt, less is usually more. “what are you doing?” Culum: “The usual.”

      When the hook is set, setting the hook again will pull it out of the fish’s mouth… Just real her in nice and smooth.


  36. on October 11, 2014 at 7:11 am The Supreme Gentleman

    Holy shit I fucked up bad tonight. I took out this Colombian chick (6 years older than me) for drinks and my game was rock solid the whole time, until I let the most obvious come-on slip through my fingers. We went to a bar by the beach and the entire time I teased the shit out of her, she’d giggle, I’d nudge her, she’d nudge back, and of course I subtly brought up sex a few times and watched her gnaw on her bottom lip. Afterwards, we started walking towards my car when she said she was cold. Here’s where I fucked up. I didn’t say anything. Funny thing is, this very same signal has gotten me laid a dozen times before so needless to say I know I was supposed to move in for the fucking kill but for whatever reason I didn’t. To top it all off, when I drove her back home she gave me a half-ass hug and called me “my friend.” I cringed. As a last ditch effort, I said “no goodbye kiss?” I cringed harder. You guys could probably guess her response. I ended banging a girl I’ve been tired of for months just to cure my blue balls. I just got home and contemplated this shit the whole way. This chick is a hard 9.9 if I ever saw one. There aren’t a lot of girls like her on campus. She’s a Ferrari amongst a lot full of BMWs and I would very much like to bang her for several weeks. Would any of you fellas say there’s a rebound solution or is this a lost cause. Thanks for any advice in advance.


    • @Supreme Gentleman – Most obvious point that occurs to me is that you should have kissed her a LOT earlier and sexualized more (not to the ASD point – but you have to let her know you’re a man who finds her sexually attractive and escalate). Even at the end you could have probably kissed her if you’d just gone in for it instead of asking (don’t feel bad – I’ve been in precisely the same situation – it’s just motivation to better next time – like my latest date I just kept pushing – gently – until I got a clear no – and I have no regrets).

      If you missed an obvious opportunity and she friendzoned you it’s gonna be difficult, but I guess you could try some combination of (a) isolating her at your place, sexualizing the conversation after she comes over (ideally you’d do it before but that might trigger ASD and then escalating hard (b) same as (a) but easier cos you just sexualize over text and then meet her IN PUBLIC so as not to trigger ASD and go for round 2 kiss etc; and (c) social proof the fuck out of yourself by hanging with other hot girls in front of her and try again.


    • @Supreme…. The “I’m cold” was your cue to stop, hold her close…say “really?” and then go for the make out. Colombiana—culturally she’s going to want a MAN…and if she’s 6 years older than you i’d imagine she’s up for something with a younger dude who she expects to ROCK her…

      So…learning point here…no girl will hold it against you if you make a move. I’ve done it…I do it…think about it logically and it makes no sense….why would a girl kiss a dude she just met?

      But if you have sparked attraction or want to spike it….the expectation of that moment is what sparks the attraction.

      Stop…pull her slowly towards you..look into her eyes… “Cold? Really?”—-

      I’ve said stupid shit that makes no sense like this…it’s not the content but how you say it…

      A few months ago a girl I met online and I went out for dinner and drinks. I escalated. She said I was “not a gentleman” when I went for the k-close and turned her head.

      I dropped her…..Then a few months later she shows up at my weekly party—she later told me she had taken up this hobby. I walked over and asked her to dance. She wasn’t as hot as I’d remembered so I danced with her like I would anyone else…

      It was HER then sending me IOI’s: “You’re still kinky?” she asked….some reference to our initial meet up.

      Then she was asking me all sorts of DHV questions about the venue, the music, the artists etc. We kind of are now “friends” because I don’t want to bang her. But the IOI’s I get are tremendous and she is great as a “pivot”/orbiter.

      So…you have to make your move. ALL girls are up for it. If she’s standing in front of you…she wants to be with you.


  37. on October 11, 2014 at 7:38 am Bond, James Bond

    Perhapsh you are wondering what I would do. Well, thish happened to me oncsh. I leaned in confidently and whishpered something in her ear. Her look of annoyance tranformed into a delighted giggle. I don’t need to tell you how thish shtory ends. What did I whishper in her ear? Now that would be telling.

    But here ish some more ushful advice; something I might do, that you may be able to pull off. Just say, jokingly, “Now thats a bit harsh. We men have feelingsh to you know.” Shay thish with a shmirk on your face as if you find the whole thing delightfully amusing. What to do nexsht depends on her reaction.

    Now, of coursh, I do not suffer from approach anxiety, but here is a thought for those of you who do. When I was on an assignment in the Congo, shome of the rebelsh, after gang raping a young girl, deliberately punctured the wall between her vagina and rectum before sending her back to her village. Thish type of injury doesh not heal and leaves the girl a stinking, incontinent, pariah for the resht of her life. After my subsequent encounter with these rebels her majesties government had the cheek to reprimand me for “unnecessary use of deadly forsh”. But that’s neither here nor there, my point ish that nexsht time you are worried about being shot down by a woman, recall thish incident to give yourshelf a litlle pershpective.

    Gotta go now, duty calls.


  38. Ok, here is your mission should you choose to accept it.

    Pick out 3 of these women to bang in the order you would bang them:



    • Pam Grier, Pam Grier, and Pam Grier… just to muh-dik you muh-dikkers.



      • I see your Pam Grier and raise you one Hellen Mirren; Im sure she has some lower class, out of control, inner british whore potty mouth begging to be release.


      • The reason I didn’t pick Mirren is because I seem to recall her kowtowing to the mudshark imperative pushed by your friends and mine who don’t control the mainstream media…

        Some PBS BritCop drama, if memory serves.

        In short… you’re a day late. lzozlzozlzolzozlozlozlozlozl


      • I only know about her from Prime Suspect; I had no idea she was once hot (in and English kinda way) back in the day. Regardless, she still had a latent sexiness in Prime Suspect; I think she knows what carpet burns are.


      • She was hotter than hot… check her out in Age Of Consent and O Lucky Man.


      • Greg Eliot
        The reason I didn’t pick Mirren is because I seem to recall her kowtowing to the mudshark imperative pushed by your friends and mine who don’t control the mainstream media…

        Well she is a skilled actress, so you can’t really be sure if she was, as you say, “kowtowing?”


      • She was in the autumn of her career, and probably a good 25 years older than her blackamour, so she was kowtowing to the producers’ lurid whims as well as her delusions of sex symbol babe of yesteryear.

        You muh-dikking is exceedingly pathetic & douce-chill inducing when you do it by proxy, Sambo… especially given that you never miss an opportunity to tell YT not to be proud of the achievements of others.


      • Let he who has never had Jew DNA dripping from his chin cast the first stone

        *Eliot drops his bucket of rocks and walks away angry*


      • Non-sequiturish diversion, as usual, noted.

        “Let whoever is without sin cast the first stone”… at which point an old woman ran up and clocked the girl with a rock… therefore Jesus said:



  39. Insane. Why try to meet a woman in a bar to begin with, especially one as hostile as the stool sitting on a stool? Go somewhere where you have something in common.

    Are you proud when you make douchebag males your friends?

    PUA: “Hey, Joe: you won’t believe my mad ingestion skills. I saw this rancid sandwich on the sidewalk and studied long and hard how to eat it. Now I can go almost anywhere and pick up disgusting stuff to eat. How cool is that!”

    [CH: you sound bitter.]


  40. This is an utter and complete trainwreck – I’m speechless how much of a trainwreck this woman is



  41. I couldn’t go for whorefinder’s rape game, but I’d be tempted to, when the hand came up and the “No!” came out. to grab her by the lapels, lift her off the barstool into the air, and reply “Yes!” as I slowly slid her back down to earth on my chest and groin.

    Wouldn’t THAT be fun! 😉


  42. Being a man of a certain age – I would grab her upraised hand and bring it down to handshake level – and then do exactly that while saying “This is the proper way to shake hands”


  43. I’m in my late fifties so I was in my 20s and 30s before the age of female entitlement really kicked in. But out of curiousity: is the “No Girl” a frequently encountered species in today’s “scene”?


  44. on October 11, 2014 at 12:43 pm having a bad day

    i’m kind of late to the party, but can i play too?…lol

    see YaReally’s analysis in both threads. it’s spot on…as far as DHVing, you can do that by yourself…in an empty bar/cafe… you just use violating ‘societal expectations’ as a way to build social proof…and most/all of the examples listed are trying to violate some social standard to build DHV fast. and they probably won’t work bc this set needs some time to build up your value/turn round…which you don’t get given her attitude…

    alpha mind-set = imagine you are a successful cad…lol…you have a current rotation of 3 girls (but you can always use another one…)…your newest girl (whom you have banged once…) texted you for a meet and will pick you up at cafe/bar/etc where ‘no’ girl interaction takes place…your new girl is 2 points hotter/10 pounds lighter/5 years younger and will pick you up after she teaches her yoga class…lol…plus she does that thing you REALLY like…lol…you go the cafe/bar early to hang out/get a drink/practice your PUA skills…lol…gotta keep the rotation pipeline full…lol…

    so, you approach ‘no’ girl and get the “NO”…what do you do?…you silently chuckle/smirk/are amused at her being a silly girl and immediately move on to your next thing, which is getting a drink/enjoying your drink…

    why? bc to continue to try to engage her is TOO MUCH EFFORT (and gives her the attention/validation/REWARD that she is seeking, and so conforms to her expected results = beta)…do you ‘leave the area’ and retreat across the room to a table/booth far far away = no…too much effort…do you give her an ego saving (butthurted) response (to try to turn it around…lol) = no…too much effort…do you care about the negative outcome = no…too much effort…do you care what ‘no’ girl or her friends think? = no…too much effort…lol…you simply sit down in the seat next to her and order your drink/enjoy your drink and promptly ‘forget’ about her…as you wait for your new girl to get there…lol…

    note – you are still in the ‘interaction’ with ‘no’ girl…you are in the process of DHV, and you just need to give her hindbrain some time to activate her hamster…lol…for whatever reason, she wasn’t open to it when you approached…BUT, as you simply sit there with alpha posture enjoying your drink (focus on what’s important to YOU…lol) (mmmm…taste the hoppy/malty goodness of that beer…feel the slightly smooth bite of that rich coffee…enjoy the oak notes in that scotch…lol) you have ten minutes to ‘waste’ until your girl gets there…so take your time…just sitting there is harder than you might think it is, but you should try it any way…lol…

    doing this (and i always recommend stretching your experience/practicing turning around bad sets) will give you a chance to DHV by simply ‘being yourself’…lol…

    the societal standard you are violating (by not leaving the area) is ‘avoiding confrontation to make society run smoothly’…plus you are rejecting/refusing to acknowledge the ‘social shaming’ of rejection from the feminine imperative…plus, your wiring is telling you to LEAVE THE AREA before the ‘alpha’ gets back and kills you…lol, since you failed at getting the female to even entertain the idea of breeding with you…lol…by simply sitting there, you are DHV alpha. by the time you are done with your drink (10 minutes at least…) she should be open enough to apologize for her rude behavior to you…lol…

    note – you need to be able to forgive her for her rudeness, which should be easy, since you didn’t take her behavior personally…lol…

    then, game as normal…lol…

    also, if she opens you by commenting on why you are not leaving the area, take that as a shit test/ioi (her hamster is starting to wake up…lol) and engage as normal…

    good luck!


  45. “Pardon me miss, the roofie in the drink wasn’t for you.” Tone should be that of a bartender or waiter, professional and working, not relaxed. Offer to take the drink back and get her another one. If she let’s you take the drink, drink it and don’t get her another one.


  46. What’s the equivalent for daygames? If you get the “hand” or the headshake, and she keeps moving… any suggestions?


  47. Ok, i got one for you. What do I say when she is almost agrees to go on a date with me, but then she is still resisting? I know its completely unrelated, but i had an experience like this where it didn’t make sense. The IOIs were intense, hair flipping, feminine voice, nervous in a good way. Am I just a bitch for not pushing for a date/sex? I’m a newbie, and this happened a year ago where i was definitely a Sperg. Now i have better social skills and socialibility, but I think she wasn’t comfortable due to the Sperg/virgin vibe I gave off.. Was she desperate(career woman, M.D., in her 30s) or did she want attention? I’d appreciate the insightful advice.


    • @eric – difficult to say without more details. Could be because your social vibe was a bit weird, but if you’re sure the IOIs were there, more likely because you hadn’t qualified her – especially if she thought you were high-value you needed to show her what you liked about *her* in particular (ie, qualify her).

      Depends on the exact convo though – not clear what you mean by “almost agrees..but still resisting”


      • Ok, i left out a lot of details. I was seeing this M.D. for anxiety medication, i had some social anxiety issues. But by this time, I didn’t have anxiety anymore. So I was seeing her because I wanted to ask her out. Btw, I’m 22(21 then) and she was in her 30s. I wanted her due to scarcity, but also because I haven’t seen a girl my age as hot ( the way she carried herself and she knew she was hot) or as beautiful and exotic ( Until that that time, its the first time I’ve ever seen a beautiful Indian girl like her.). The meeting before this, I asked her out, she knew i wanted her so i guess she was expecting it. I qualified her when she asked me ” Why do you want to date me?” I told her because ” You have a good head on your shoulders, you’re educated”. She of course, refused. But she was coming in looking more pretty, new haircuts, more flashy dressing, very high heels, pearls on her neck.. on every meeting. And this was when I told her I was becoming more alpha ( is this a good thing or bad thing to tell a girl? I think I should’ve showed her, not told her. Show not tell). I held myself up more confidently and used my deep voice, and I could tell she was aroused. She was nervous after I told her about my new identity, and she told me ” wow, you really have changed”, and when i told her about the new girls i was talking to, her reaction was priceless, lol. ” MARY?!” with a shocked and perplexed and jealous face. It was my best attempt at trying to seduce a girl, and i was doing good. So i gained a lot of calibration out of this, but no lay. And ultimately thats all I wanted, she was too old and too experienced in life for me to have her as a girlfriend, or even date. I just wanted it once, lol.


      • In the last meeting ( i don’t like calling it an appointment), she also came in with high heels and she had her hair done. This meeting was shorter, I lost the confidence from asking her out the last time, even tho she twirled her her and neck at me ( the most submissive gesture I have EVER seen from a girl).. but i felt hurt and rejected (21yr old Sperg, virgin), so i ignored it, even though i wanted her. She asked why I kept seeing her if i didnt want medicine ( Y the fuck would she ask this?? i asked her out on a date the last time i saw her. Test?) I felt rejected even more, so I told her ” I told you once and i’ll tell you again, I don’t see the point ( i raised my voice here). But you said you wanted to catch up” Then she said ” I never said that”, this was 2 years ago when i told her the same thing, when she asked why i wanted to see her. Did i pass a test? It seems like it but i dont know. Then i guess she wanted to give me a last shot, she said ” You can call me”. At this point, I was tired of the games, and not knowing whether she liked me or was using me for validation.. I had no experience so i had to go with my gut, and yelled at her ” Thats not going to happen”. What i want help with is how should i handle this next time a girl is giving me hard IOIs, but hard resistance. This kind of game is dangerous to play with, i need a defense against it lol. I fell in love with her and i also fell into depression because of her games.. And this is not going to happen again. I just want to be ready next time a girl decides to play this kind of game.. i don’t want to fall into depression ever again, because of ONE girl. I internalize the game concepts of the manosphere, so i dont want to put one girl on a pedestal ever again. I’m the CHOOSER, not her. Again thanks for the insight


      • @eric Seems to me you had a chance with this girl at one time but blew it. Plus massive one-itis.

        You have some idea abotu the basic concepts – you just need to practice applying them with other girls and consistently in your own life. And also it sounds like you have mental health issues – you need to address them – not just because it will help you game better (although it will) but also cos you will fuck up your life if you don’t.


      • Thanks, and this was last year when it happened. The mental issues are gone, no more depression or anxiety. I beat my depression and anxiety with Cognitive Behavioral Therap, repeated exposure.. Just wanted to learn from this experience.


  48. on October 11, 2014 at 9:04 pm the latent sadist

    loved this


  49. penis game will only work if you are a head banging psycopath like the criminal portrayed in the movie.


  50. on October 12, 2014 at 12:09 pm Downward Facing Dog

    How to respond to this preemptive rejection misses the larger point which is: Why are you engaging? >No IOI no approach<

    Sun Tzu said in the Art of War "For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill.

    Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.

    [CH: the real world is filled with examples of men approaching women without an IOI invitation. if every fuck or relationship required an IOI from the girl, the amount of love in the world would decrease by a factor of ten.]


  51. These “comebacks” aren’t going to anything except give you some stupid satisfaction at “winning” and cause her to roll her eyes/get angry/get upset. By making these comments, you’re basically showcasing your own worst features in a public place. Seriously. You end up looking like you can’t deal with rejection.


  52. No Girl: “No.”
    You: “No wonder you’re single”
    No Girl: “No I’m not! My boyfriend… blah blah blah…”
    You: “Boy cats don’t count.”


  53. […] The readers have responded to this post’s game challenge with a show of force. It’s a good sign that men who come to this blog are still interested in learning how to pick up women. The scrotal sack of Western man is not yet drained of life.  […]


  54. Is she always this much fun? By far the best one


  55. on October 14, 2014 at 9:20 am jack-arcalon.livejournal.com

    I hate to say it but a tiny fraction of guys might respond violently to such a thing, if they are already unstable to begin with.

    And in a decaying society the number of unstable guys may start to increase.


  56. c’mon CH… give me a difficult one.

    fake sneeze in her hand, making sure a lil puff of air or saliva mist hits her hand, and when she looks at you with the ew face, rub your nose and say “Damn, ebola’s a bitch…”

    then smile and turn your back to her to engage anyone else nearby


  57. Who actually raises their hand and says “NO!”? lol. When I go out, I go out to drink beer and talk about stuff (the more beer, the more philosophical the talks, you know how that goes). I absolutely don’t want to be picked up because I’m not interested in dating or sex, sex is something I’d do with my fiancee maybe, not with a random guy or short term boyfriend (I also fail to the see the point in short term relationships, so I don’t get into them at all). Raising your hand and saying “NO!” would be bitchy and shitty, but a refusal to be approached should be respected. I’ll usually engage in a conversation with anyone that has anything good to say, but I will block any subtle flirting attempts and if they get more direct I’ll be direct in telling them that I’m not interested in flirting, “the game”, or anything. Although the “no” strategy might actually save you the time, if the only reason you go talk to a girl is because you’re trying to hook up with her and maybe get laid, and you guys should just go to the next target as if nothing happened.