Tight Game From 1910

Full-Fledged Fiasco passed along this link to an example of the kind of game that men had access to way back in 1910:

Modern Woman and How to Manage Her, by Walter M. Gallichan, 1910

Beautifully put. The Gilded Age stands in stark contrast to the Gelded Age in which we are currently mired. And mirin.

Game has always been with us. Contrary to the flimsy strawmen of game denialists who delude themselves into thinking game is some sort of modern nerd fest with no analogue in esteemed cultural history, the facts bear out just how romantically savvy and game-aware were men of the past, should those men have chosen to enlighten themselves beyond their mothers’ saccharine teachings. One hundred years ago, people knew what women were about; only recently it seems we have had to relearn the age-old lessons. Blame it on the Flim-flam Effect.

Of course, this knowledge of the crimson arts was likely not known by the term “game” in 1910. Perhaps it went by some other name, like “reality”, or “charisma”, or “the Gods of the Copybook Headings”. The term that is used to describe ancient human rhythms is irrelevant; what matters are the insights. And in 1910, at least some had amazing insight into the feminine soul. Look at the ways this passage closely aligns with modern game teachings.

“the impulse to nag must be regarded as common and normal in women”

Modern game theorists accept as a foundational premise that sex differences in behavior are real, and immutable, and that ignoring these differences will have profound consequences for one’s success in the sexual market.

“it is only when the nagging is incessant and excessive that it degenerates into a morbid vice”

Relationship game. Women get progressively nastier to the men in their lives if those men allow them to run roughshod. This is known as the creeping betatization of domestication. (Nice ring to it.) A woman’s happiness and contentment in a relationship are directly proportional to the willing refusal of her man to put up with her shit.

“the best way to manage a nagging woman is to agree with her that you are a perfect brute and wretch”

Agree and amplify. Core game technique.

“and then to laugh at her”

Amused mastery. Core game concept.

“if that fails, fly from her presence”


What in that antediluvian, 90% white America paragraph is substantially different from anything taught today by avowed pick-up artists? Answer: Nothing. The only major difference between the “game” of yesteryear and the game of today is the scientific strength and experimental feedback that modern seduction proponents draw from relatively recent developments like evolutionary psychology and instantly transmitted field reports.. If you were to talk to a savvy man from 1910 about evolutionary psychology, he would look at you like you were from Mars. But if you were to ask him how he handles his woman, a wealth of knowledge would be yours for the taking.

It’s time for American men to return to their roots. Their deep roots. Only from the roots will the tree of knowledge of good and evil regrow its lost might.


  1. Brilliant and still holds true today.


    • on August 8, 2013 at 4:41 pm Zombie Shane

      > “The Gilded Age stands in stark contrast to the Gelded Age in which we are currently mired.”

      You know, 1910 is an interesting point in time.

      The USA hadn’t had a serious war in 45 years – since 1865.

      Now there was a persistent problem with Native American Terrorism in the late 19th Century, but I don’t think it ever got to the point that it needed anything even remotely resembling the conscription of a draft.

      And the “Spanish-American War” lasted all of three months, with about 350 USA combat dead versus about 2500 USA dead of disease:


      So just getting on the boat and heading for the mosquitoes of Cuba or the Philippines was vastly more dangerous than the prospect of seeing any actual combat time.

      Point being that the overwhelming majority of an upper-crust East Coast elite audience [for whom Gallichan was writing] probably hadn’t seen any service in the military.

      [As opposed to, say, the senior cast of “Mad Men” – Sterling, Cooper, and Draper – all of whom, by 1960, in NYC, had seen service in WWI and/or WWII and/or Korea.]

      Now things would have been different if you had come of age as a homesteader in the Southwest territories, or in the “deep” Midwest [like the Dakotas], where death by Native American Terrorism could have been a real possibility.

      But a lot of these guys in NYC might have been getting a little gelded by 1910, and they might have needed a stern talking-to, by the likes of a Gallichan.

      PS: Gallichan’s dates are really interesting – 1861 to 1946:


      His life literally book-ended both the American Civil War and WWII.

      And in 1910 he would have been a 49-year-old man, with distant childhood memories of the Civil War, who was dressing down 20-something effete NYC newlywed young men, who were still children when the Spanish-American War was fought in 1898.




      • on August 8, 2013 at 6:19 pm Zombie Shane

        Yeah, like going on a two-week 100-mile ride into town, to take your cattle to the train depot, to be shipped to the slaughter house, and then returning back home to discover that while you were gone, you wife had been raped, scalped, and had had throat slit.

        Before she died, that is.

        Only now what’s left of her is lying on the floor of the cabin, covered in maggots and flies and dung beetles.

        That kinda terrorism.

        As Jeantel would say, “Old School.”


      • “OMG WOW JUST WOW.”

        Earl, are you ironically aping the semi literate hissy fit of feminists who use hyper indignation in place of rhetorical value?


        Are you just a little bitch?


      • “Native American Terrorism”.

        Still wrapping my head around the fact that I have NEVER had the opportunity to read something so remarkably audacious, ever. Literally never seen those three words strung together in in sequence in a sentence — “Native American Terrorism”.

        I’m actually tempted to take a ‘screen capture/shot’ on my cellphone and save it for entertainment fodder for parties and shit. Fucking hilarious. Funniest shit all day. You’re stupidity actually brought a much needed laugh!


      • Input>“Native American Terrorism”
        ERROR. ERROR.


      • Actually, white Americans blamed king George for “Native American Terrorism”; and used it as an excuse for the rebellion against the crown.

        From the U.S declaration of independence: July 4th 1776

        “He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions”.

        If you’ve never read it all the way through, you should read it. Its interesting.

        Especially This part: “He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us,” its talking about my people; black slaves who hafta listen to these white colonists COMPLAIN about being mistreated, being 2nd class citizens…

        They blame all that and more on the king of England



      • He explained himself… and in this age of psyop warfare and newspeak, it was a clever turn-about in taking the fight to the Cathedral.

        And by today’s use of the term, it’s hard to gainsay…. or do you guffaw heartily over terms like Palestinian terrorism as well?

        Hell, George Washington would be called a terrorist by today’s standards.

        The only thing wrong with calling it “terrorism” in re the particular warlike tribes of Indians is that said acts were not of political intent, they were their standard modus operandi, when dealing with other people not of their tribe.

        So laugh away…

        You chortling fairy.


      • Are you asserting that Pre-Columbian North and South American aboriginal tribes never victimized or terrorized each other? Or that those practices couldn’t have possibly continued after Europeans arrived?

        Yes, take a picture or write it down. But do open your mind up a bit to the idea that all of the people living on those two continents might not have been noble savages.


      • “You’re stupidity actually brought a much needed laugh!”

        it’s fun when there’s a grammar or spelling error in a word adjacent to the word ‘stupidity’


      • “You’re stupidity…”

        Actually, it stressed you out so much it caused you to make a grammar typo… Herpa derp

        Nonchalance fail.


      • I can’t find the argument in this comment. Could someone donate an electron microscope so I can be sure I didn’t overlook it?


      • on August 8, 2013 at 11:40 pm Ludwig Von Bern

        Brilliant play on words comparing the Gilded Age to the ‘Gelded Age’. A tip of the cap to you.


    • on August 9, 2013 at 6:48 am Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM)



      She said: “I’m surprised you want to bang me so bad – I’m not even that hot. There are way better looking girls you should be going after.”

      da GBFM replied: Well, have you ever been to the Four Seasons? You know how when you walk into the restroom there is porcelain and gold all over the place and the flush handles are ornate with diamonds and rubies on them? After you relieve yourself, a man in a tux standing by the ornate sinks hands you soap to wash your hands and a little towel to dry your hands. Well, that’s all fine and good, but have you ever been driving down the highway and needing to go so bad that you’re almost tempted to pull over despite there being no shoulder? Finally you arrive at an exit, and there’s a little dingy gas station where the bathroom hasn’t been washed for years. It stinks to high heaven as the broken light’s flicker glints off the dark, wet floor, but man, don’t it feel good to pee!

      Well, see, you’re right–I much prefer the Four Seasons restrooms–the girls I usually bang. But now and then a worn-out, dirty, stinky, dark bathroom feels just as good, if not better. And tonight, you’re that worn-out, dirty, stinky, dark bathroom. So let’s go!

      –swoosh every time by da GBFM zllzlzozlzlozolzlozolzozo


    • on August 9, 2013 at 7:04 am Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM)

      He hearteitsez!! hjeartsyeitzsz!!!



      “As he predicted, as soon as Zeus walks out among the other gods, Hera starts nagging him. Zeus tells her to be quiet. lzozozlzlzzozooz Hephaistos, the blacksmith god, and the son of Zeus and Hera, tells his mother to make her peace with Zeus.”



      “And Lady Hera, with her oxen eyes wide: “Oh my. The awesome son of Cronus has spoken. Pry? You know that I never pry. And you always Cheerfully volunteer—whatever information you please. It’s just that I have this feeling that somehow The silver-footed daughter of the Old Man of the Sea May have won you over. She was sitting beside you [590] Up there in the mist, and she did touch your knees. And I’m pretty sure that you agreed to honor Achilles And destroy Greeks by the thousands beside their ships.”

      And Zeus, the master of cloud and storm: “You witch! Your intuitions are always right. But what does it get you? Nothing, except that I like you less than ever. And so you’re worse off. If it’s as you think it is, it’s my business, not yours. So sit down and shut up and do as I say. You see these hands? All the gods on Olympus [600] Won’t be able to help you if I ever lay them on you.”

      Hera lost her nerve when she heard this. She sat down in silence, fear cramping her heart, And gloom settled over the gods in Zeus’ hall.”

      Homer; Lombardo, Stanley (1997-06-01). Iliad (Translated & Annotated) (Kindle Locations 1688-1711). Hackett Publishing. Kindle Edition.


    • on August 9, 2013 at 8:00 am Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM)

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      • on August 9, 2013 at 8:05 am Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM)

        during da GBFM’s summer vaatctaisonz da GBFM wa sinetrveieweedwedzz lzzlzozozoozzozo



    • brave new world. this is the first time in history that a confessed killer has 143 videos of himself available on youtube available literally the day after he confessed to the murder on facebook….and still there

      CH can you get a story or 2 out of this? lzozlozlzl http://www.youtube.com/user/MrDerekmedina03/videos


  2. From George Bernard Shaw’s Caesar and Cleopatra (1898):

    RUFIO (bluntly). Your Majesty has heard it before. You repeated
    it to Apollodorus last week; and he thought it was all your own.
    (Caesar’s dignity collapses. Much tickled, he sits down again and
    looks roguishly at Cleopatra, who is furious. Rufio calls as
    before) Ho there, guard! Pass the prisoner out. He is released.
    (To Pothinus) Now off with you. You have lost your chance.

    POTHINUS (his temper overcoming his prudence). I WILL speak.

    CAESAR (to Cleopatra). You see. Torture would not have wrung a
    word from him.

    POTHINUS. Caesar: you have taught Cleopatra the arts by which the
    Romans govern the world.

    CAESAR. Alas! They cannot even govern themselves. What then?

    POTHINUS. What then? Are you so besotted with her beauty that you
    do not see that she is impatient to reign in Egypt alone, and
    that her heart is set on your departure?

    CLEOPATRA (rising). Liar!

    CAESAR (shocked). What! Protestations! Contradictions!

    CLEOPATRA (ashamed, but trembling with suppressed rage). No. I do
    not deign to contradict. Let him talk. (She sits down again.)

    POTHINUS. From her own lips I have heard it. You are to be her
    catspaw: you are to tear the crown from her brother’s head and
    set it on her own, delivering us all into her hand–delivering
    yourself also. And then Caesar can return to Rome, or depart
    through the gate of death, which is nearer and surer.

    CAESAR (calmly). Well, my friend; and is not this very natural?

    POTHINUS (astonished). Natural! Then you do not resent treachery?

    CAESAR. Resent! O thou foolish Egyptian, what have I to do with
    resentment? Do I resent the wind when it chills me, or the night
    when it makes me stumble in the darkness? Shall I resent youth
    when it turns from age, and ambition when it turns from
    servitude? To tell me such a story as this is but to tell me that
    the sun will rise to-morrow.

    CLEOPATRA (unable to contain herself). But it is false–false. I
    swear it.

    CAESAR. It is true, though you swore it a thousand times, and
    believed all you swore. (She is convulsed with emotion. To screen
    her, he rises and takes Pothinus to Rufio, saying) Come, Rufio:
    let us see Pothinus past the guard. I have a word to say to him.
    (Aside to them) We must give the Queen a moment to recover


    • Yes, the thiings in classic literature that feminists hate, the troglodyte classism racism sexism — those are exactly the things to pay attention to. Every time I see a Shakespeare play there is something in there that corresponds to evo-psych, whether it is a character noting that a person has inherited behavioral traits from a parent, or whether it’s Richard III running some tyrant game on a woman whose husband he’s just had killed, or whether it’s Coriolanus finding out that you can’t betray your own people. Even when lameass directors change the play to modern dress the old wisdom still shows through.


      • on August 8, 2013 at 2:35 pm supersystem3

        ‘Coriolanus’ is by far my favorite work of Shakespeare. It was as close to truth as I’ve seen in a play, no matter what facet I focus on or angle I approach it from.


    • I might add that portrayals of Rome do not lack for luster even recently.

      “Titus Pullo: Of course, your best method for pleasing a woman is the warm, beating heart of an enemy. I mean, women’ll say they don’t like it, but they do. Makes them wet as October. “


    • on August 8, 2013 at 3:11 pm Libertardian

      “POTHINUS (astonished). Natural! Then you do not resent treachery?

      CAESAR. Resent! O thou foolish Egyptian, what have I to do with
      resentment? Do I resent the wind when it chills me, or the night
      when it makes me stumble in the darkness? Shall I resent youth
      when it turns from age, and ambition when it turns from
      servitude? To tell me such a story as this is but to tell me that
      the sun will rise to-morrow.

      CLEOPATRA (unable to contain herself). But it is false–false. I
      swear it.

      CAESAR. It is true, though you swore it a thousand times, and
      believed all you swore.”

      That stuff is gold. As checked out says in another thread:

      “How can you possible separate the anger and frustration that comes with the knowledge of what’s really going on in the world”

      That seems to be a common problem. A kid is raised with a certain idealized view of the world. We could debate where it comes from – single mom, beta dad, overprotective parents, liberal parents/school, whatever – I don’t know if it’s germane.

      Anyway, he then encounters the real world. Massive cognitive dissonance results as he tries to reconcile his beliefs with his experience – especially in the area of women – followed by massive disillusionment and perhaps bitterness and cynicism, because he can’t just reach back into his formative years and rip those false beliefs out of his brain by their roots. However grimly realist he thinks he becomes, he is still forever internally comparing the degraded state of things to how they could be or “should” be.


      • I think this is possible, it’s called growing up. And I don’t mean the sort that ends at 20. I am over 50 now. Eventually you have to leave the role of dutiful son or daughter to your parents and establish your own relationship with the world, or God, or however you perceive things, without reference to what you were told but only with regard to what you know and what you have experienced. For me that process only started at about 20 and finished much later.


    • on August 8, 2013 at 7:48 pm Modern Primitive

      Surprise surprise, taking money from productive members of society and giving it to the unproductive means the unproductive have more money. You’re some sort of einstein.


  3. Feisty women are women who aren’t smart enough to know when to shut their pie holes.


    • Dumb women act like men.


      • Any woman, who describes herself as feisty, you know is going to be an annoyance.


      • I bet feisty women are just as annoying to other women as to men. If not more.

        Gay men seem to love them though.


      • Yes I don’t see the point. Did some teachers tell them early in life that feisty was good? When I was in the market 20 or so years ago, there seemed to be a lot of feisty women, as if I was supposed to pick one of them. I didn’t.

        Sometimes I think there’s a lot of peer pressure from other females, maybe during high school which is pretty competitive, not to be feminine. Other girls will run down a girly girl because they can’t compete with her. She’s breaking the “feisty” pack mentality they seek to enforce.


      • on August 9, 2013 at 12:43 am Hugh G. Rection

        They do love to sabotage other girls’ SMV. It’s like the hot girl telling her chubby friend she’s pretty and she should, like, totally cut her hair short.


      • Gay men seem to love them though.

        [Abnormal] birds of a feather…


      • They fear and loathe women, and so they take pleasure in seeing women pervert themselves.


      • Most women I know of who think that they’re ‘hilarious’ ‘sarcastic’ etc. confuse raw snark with wit. That’s the main problem. A lot of gay guys do this too.


      • Right you are, old boy… I knew if I hung around long enough, we’d find common ground. 😉


      • I thought we’d found common ground in our forbidden love for one another already.


      • That sort of love hasn’t been forbidden for decades now… in fact, it’s celebrated, so your coming out at this time was no act of courage.



      • Confetti on the bed sheets, mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.


      • Sarcasm is another one of those tether balls swung round back into their face making her look worldly and experienced implying opportunities for sexual dalliances and social corruption which is certainly attractive on a man, but like a torn and dirty shammy on her.


      • Yes, because they just tend to be mean. Not a coincidence that the people who deploy this type of ‘humor’ tend to be society’s rejects.

        On the other hand, a legitimately funny and feminine woman is delightful. Granted, I only know 1, but still…she’s one of my all-time favs.


      • Not just cause they are mean. Its cause she’s a roamer of the country side such that she is more likely to bare breech the screaming spawn of her country lover, which from your genetic perceptive is indistinguishable from the placental slop on your Egyptian cotton linens.


      • lol jesus christ dude


      • on August 8, 2013 at 6:36 pm Zombie Shane

        > “On the other hand, a legitimately funny and feminine woman is delightful. Granted, I only know 1, but still…she’s one of my all-time favs.”

        Dude, if she’s still young enough, then you’re talking about some serious marital material right there.

        Do NOT make the mistake of assuming [without even realizing that you had assumed] that there are tens or even hundreds of other girls out there, just like her, and just waiting to be discovered by you.

        Because, in all likelihood, over the course of the remainder of your lifetime, you’ll never again meet even ONE more girl like her.

        Special chicks are SPECIAL.

        Do NOT take them for granted.


        Pounce before some other dude beats you to the prize.


      • Let me amplify and agree with Zombie Shane’s heartfelt advice.

        Your children’s intelligence comes mainly from the mother. Their body comes mainly from the father. So if you marry a 9.9 model who is dumb as a post, your kids will look like you and be dumb as posts. But if you marry a plain looking girl with intelligence and spirit, your kids will still look like you but they’ll be cool.

        And you’ll have a different set of marital problems. Better? Worse? That I don’t know, but your life will be more exciting, and we believe that’s a good thing don’t we?


      • ZS, I agree that she is special. At the same time, she lives in another state, is on a completely different life trajectory than me, and I’ve blown what chances I have had to do whatever with her.

        Maybe I won’t discover another girl like her — which is good, why try to replace people in your life? Maybe I’ll discover someone better. Maybe I won’t. That’s just life.


      • on August 8, 2013 at 7:23 pm Zombie Shane

        > “I’ve blown what chances I have had”


        Are you still alive?

        Is she still alive?

        Are you still a bachelor?

        Is she still a spinster?

        Seriously dude.

        Pack up your gear and move the hell out there to be with her.

        Shit damn.


      • Nah, man. To do that would be to treat her as though she were my salvation or something. Best case scenario — let’s say we did get married; I’ll still have all my same issues. But now I’d have less time to get my shit right because I’d be trying to work on a relationship at the same time.

        Besides, let’s say if we were to somehow reconnect — she would deserve my best self. Everyone you expect something from does. I’m not there yet, so I’m perfectly content to slug it out in the wilderness until I do get there.

        More likely scenario, if we don’t reconnect — good. The regret of pre-game/pre-self-directed/pre-strong behavior will stay with me, and I will learn from my mistakes.


      • There are about 3.5 billion women in the world. You’ll be alright lol


      • “Deserve your best self”? Scray I have no idea what that means. I don’t have a best self. Well God is my best self, but I can’t promise that to anyone, only my efforts. Truly your statement makes no sense to me.

        Scray let me tell you there is no perfect time, no worst time, although there are more or less convenient times.

        If whatever girl is willing to live your shit with you, and you’re willing to live her shit, well things can still get difficult as they have between my wife and me, but there’s a foundation to work from, and you’ll both have good times to look back on.


      • Lol, it means that I want to handle my shit and get myself straight. I don’t need to move across the country for some girl. There are other girls. I’ve got man’s work to do, ya heard.


      • on August 9, 2013 at 6:24 am Zombie Shane

        > “I don’t need to move across the country for some girl.”

        Dude, again, you didn’t describe “some” girl.

        You described a very SPECIAL girl.

        SPECIAL girls don’t grow on trees – SPECIAL girls are freaking rare as hens’ teeth, man.

        YaReally’s snark about “3 billion” other girls is the correct attitude to take when you’re dealing with yet another filthy stinking whore who just stabbed you in the back.

        But there are NOT “3 billion” SPECIAL girls out there.

        When a SPECIAL girl finally crosses your path, you put on the full-court press and you seize her for yourself.

        You may never see another one like her for the rest of your life.

        PS: You learn Game Theory precisely so that when the SPECIAL one finally appears, you’ve done your homework, you’re practiced, you’re ready, you know what to do, and YOU GO FOR IT.

        And hell, even if you don’t know what to do, you go for it any-damned-way.


      • This is what a scarcity mentality looks like. For all you know she farts in her sleep or doesn’t like giving head lol. In 3.5 billion girls, over the next 10+ years of your life, you’ll meet more funny girls.

        It might be rare, sure, but get your shit handled first cause you owe it to yourself. You’re on a completely different wavelength/headspace than the rest of the world now, they’re not going to be able to wrap their head around what you’re doing but that’s only because they never did it themselves.

        This journey of self-development can be a lonely road with not just a lack of support but an active pushing AGAINST it by “normal” people. This is why a lot of people give up and most people don’t accomplish much unless they’ve hit rock-bottom so hard that they refuse to be held back by other people and learn to be self-reliant.

        Part of why we had a PUA community was that we all knew no one in our normal lives would support what we were doing and we’d get the same type of responses you’re getting here, which are TOTALLY WELL-MEANING, don’t get me wrong…they have the absolute best of intentions with it and just want you to avoid mistakes they made etc, but they don’t and can’t understand that your goals go beyond “get some bar pussy”.

        Just keep doing what feels right. Down the road you’ll naturally tone it down and re-join the “normal” world, but as a different man than the guy who first posted here about getting sneered at by a 6 on the dance floor and being the tag-along runt of the group who had to chase everyone around for an invite to things.


      • In advising Srray to go for what looks like a woman who may be worth marrying, I surely understand that his aspirations may go beyond bar pussy!

        My experience clearly colored my answer. My experience was that I got enough “game”, in a time well before there was game on the internet, pretty quickly by reflecting on my own experience and figuring out that at least in a woman, attraction does not happen in the rational mind. Acting on this, when I spotted my wife and decided I wanted her, I got what I wanted. At that point I had a different set of “problems” to deal with. Life goes on.

        Probably I would have been even more effective at the hooking-up process with more thought and, if possible, study and experience in social environments. But by then someone else probably would have moved in on her. As engineers sometimes say “good enough is best” and anyway, I went for it. So I though that with the exposure so far, Scray is probably more than good enough to get this girl already, if that’s what Scray wants and she is at all available. Hence my thought to “go for it”.

        No disrespect to YaReally, whose knowledge in the early-stage relationship world exceeds mine by a hundredfold, and whose incisive insights I always value.


      • I sincerely appreciate the advice. I guess long story short is that I’m having too much fun doing what I’m doing now; going to the gym, going out, getting the jump on my career, and a hundred other little things. I’m trying to build the life I want to live.

        This summer has blown my mind….you can consistently hook up with girls without dating them? I’ve never done that before. I would have been happy with just one, too. Plus, going out is fun — even getting shot down is fine (yes, it still happens a lot). Now I know people at several clubs who can get me and my buddies in for free. Now I can joke with staff about ‘how it’s going’ with the women.

        So ya, I like her and everything, but I like me more.


      • @David

        No disrespect intense your way, either. I totally understand that you and Shane have good intentions. At the same time, I was where Scray was once and the man I was then couldn’t even comprehend the man he was capable of becoming and is still in the process of becoming. If you had put the perfect girl in front of me then, maybe I would’ve gotten her, maybe not, but I sure as shit wouldn’t be able to keep her.

        “Scray is probably more than good enough to get this girl already, if that’s what Scray wants and she is at all available. Hence my thought to “go for it”.”

        Right, the skills aren’t the question. The question isn’t “CAN he get her?”, it’s “does he WANT her?” Like:

        “In advising Scray to go for what looks like a woman who may be worth marrying”

        The problem is that, no offense to Scray at all, he doesn’t know what a woman who may be worth marrying LOOKS like yet. He’s only just now meeting a lot of women…it’s going to take time before he has enough experience dating them to where he can say “this thing this one girl does, I love that and I need that in a relationship” and “this thing this other girl does, I fucking hate it…I can hook up with her but this shit is a long-term deal-breaker for me and I didn’t even realize that until I met her and was around this, thank god I didn’t marry her just because she seemed perfect to my limited experience.”

        Again it’s not a judgement call on Scray, it’s just life experience. Before I started getting out and being more social and meeting girls, I had a crystal clear vision of the perfect girl for me. She was almost nothing like what it turns out I REALLY respond to. My vision of perfect was just socially conditioned and not based on “when a girl does this, it makes me feel like that”.

        If I had met and married that perfect girl, without knowing myself and knowing what REALLY is “perfect” for me, I would have ended up as just another unhappy husband trapped in an unsatisfying marriage with a girl who it turns out isn’t as perfect for me as I assumed she would be.

        Down the road, with more experience, Scray will be able to make a VERY educated assessment of the quality and compatibility, in all areas, of the girl he decides to settle with, because he’ll really truly know himself.

        Over the next few years, Scray will do things and realize he’s capable of things (not just with women but with the rest of his life as this all spills over) that he can’t even imagine right now.

        “So ya, I like her and everything, but I like me more.”

        Perfectly said.


      • Real sarcasm emerges from a position of strength, not weakness. Han Solo, not Leia. “Aren’t you a little short for a Storm Trooper” merits the back of a hand, not chuckles.


      • my brother’s girlfriend is all humorless snark.

        and it’s not totally apropos but it brought to mind one of my favorite alpha book characters severian from book of the new sun when he finds himself surprised at a woman having any humor

        “Nothing is more frequently false in women than their laughter, a merely social sound like the belching of autochthons at a feast; but it seemed to me that this laughter held real merriment.”


      • What used to always annoy me pre-redpill was how the vast majority of those considered ‘funny’ were profoundly unfunny. But then I realized that laughing at the unfunny’s jokes because you want to fuck the unfunny makes it kind of funny. That’s why I laugh at Greg’s jokes — it’s all about the sexual tension.


      • Feh.

        Try any of that Brokeass Mountain shit around me and the only thing that will beat you to the hospital is the lights of the ambulance taking you there.

        You fey fairy.


      • Avaunt, you swarthy Liberace… look elsewhere if you want your stool pushed in.


      • Never fear, I’m lookin’ to do the pushin’…which puts me right up your alley. Stop denying your feelings.


      • You sound more like a catcher to me, swine.

        You’re a negro, aren’t you? It just dawned on me.

        The last thing I have to say to you is:

        Dolly Parton’s version is far superior.

        You tin-eared coloured fairy.


      • ….
        Are you breaking up with me?
        What will I tell our adopted quadroons?


    • Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding! Right you are, Lara…

      (What do we have for her, judges? Why, it’s a BRAND… NEW… CAR!!!)

      Reminds me of something I saw today while out driving… which fits into the recent “modern women are not worth white-knighting over” recent themes…

      A car before me had written on the bumper (not a bumper sticker, mind you, but actually written out across the bumper in thick marker pen):

      “If You’re Going To Ride My Ass, Pull My Hair.”

      Being the last of the great American White Knights myself, I pulled into the next lane because I had to get a gander of the woman that would advertise such an attitude.

      Turns out she was maybe in her mid-twenties, and dressed the way she was, whilst also smoking a cigarette, I would have rated her no better than a 5. But even from a cursory glance I could tell she had nice skin, fine braided long hair, and (if cleaned up and dressed to show), might have been an 8.

      Anyway, another piece of whatever is still left of my soul curdled a bit at this example of modern American womyn flaunting her grrrlll power.


      • At least she’s honest about her desires.


      • I was thinking exactly the same thing!


      • There’s far more merit in repentance than honesty. 😉


      • on August 8, 2013 at 2:42 pm Mitch Cumstein

        Anytime I used to see something like this, I thought, “Man…her grandparents must be dead. They’d be so ashamed.” The truth is her grandparents are probably alive and well and encourage her to act like that.


      • Funny you should say that, because her mother was riding in the passenger seat, cig in hand, and resembled nothing so much as Mama June of Honey Boo Boo fame.


      • on August 8, 2013 at 3:02 pm RappaccinisDaughter

        Hey! That’s my line! Some bitch stole my line! And she left out the part about slapping my ass, which was what really made it funny! And THEN she had the temerity to marker it onto her bumper like white trash, when the line is MEANT to be spoken aloud to whoever’s in the car with me at the time, thus ruining my awesome line forever.

        RIP RappaccinisDaughter’s Hilarious Line.


      • Get thee to a nunnery… you brazen hussy!


      • She forgot, “and don’t forget the clown mask!”


      • on August 9, 2013 at 2:41 pm RappaccinisDaughter

        Nah, corvinus, adding the clown mask makes the line disproportionate and clunky. Delivered properly, it goes like this: “Damn, lady, if you’re going to ride my ass that hard, at least have the common courtesy to slap my ass and pull my hair.” Throw a clown mask reference in there and it’s too much, you know?


      • NUNNERY!


      • Rapp has the chrome scrote dangling from the back of her pick-up. She’s too subtle for bumper stickers.


      • on August 9, 2013 at 3:31 pm RappaccinisDaughter

        That was good for a chuckle, Matt, and so therefore I hate to disappoint, but…I don’t have anything on my car. No personalized plates, no decals, no stickers. I deliberately chose the most anonymous car I could find.

        I know the following will be a fairly odd statement coming from someone who’s told the things I’ve told on here, but…I don’t like strangers knowing anything about me.


      • That was good for a chuckle, Matt, and so therefore I hate to disappoint, but…I don’t have anything on my car. No personalized plates, no decals, no stickers. I deliberately chose the most anonymous car I could find.

        I know the following will be a fairly odd statement coming from someone who’s told the things I’ve told on here, but…I don’t like strangers knowing anything about me.

        First person pronoun count: 9.


      • on August 8, 2013 at 6:41 pm Zombie Shane

        > “If You’re Going To Ride My Ass, Pull My Hair.”

        You’re joking, right?

        I mean, you’re not really serious, are you?

        In most jurisdictions, that should still be grounds for public indecency, shouldn’t it?

        Seems like a cop would pull her and give her a citation.

        PS: If it was a joke, then I apologize for being such a stiff.


      • In this case, it was not one of my jests, it was a bona fide sighting.

        Truth is stranger than fiction. I guess if a cop wanted to be a… what’s the term for breaking balls when it’s a woman?


      • on August 9, 2013 at 12:50 am Hugh G. Rection

        First amendment and all?


      • You must not live in Texas.


      • Yes, but as someone who really likes to pull hair while riding women’s asses, I appreciate the identification.


      • As do we all… but try to keep it between two consenting adults, there’s a good fellow.


  4. “It’s time for American men to return to their roots. Their deep roots.”

    Will never happen. Maybe a miniscule percentage of the population will be wise enough to look to their fathers for inspiration. The rest are hopeless and barely have knowledge of US history before WW2.

    Bad demographics will destroy us and there is nothing to do about it unless mass deportation suddenly becomes an option. Might as well enjoy yourself while the world burns, and be sure to piss off and fuck over some SWPLs and leeching class orc hordes while you’re at it.

    Be a man about it:


  5. In related news, another walking avatar of Game, Rhett Butler, is still giving women tingles.


  6. on August 8, 2013 at 12:31 pm The Man From K Street

    Just a query on terminology (cf. the recent consensus on “Neoreaction”): As a catch-all technical term for Game and its ancillaries, shouldn’t the industry standard be “venusian arts” (complementing martial) rather than “crimson arts”? Or is the former too much the IP of one of its proponents (Mystery)?


  7. That’s me, trying to get along via relationship game. Get along for our kids also. Often when I don’t give wife what she wants emotionally, when her bullshit doesn’t work, she takes it out on the kids so I have to protect them from that.

    If I say so myself I was plenty alpha, or maybe sigma (people tell me I am hard to understand even though I am just doing the obvious thing) in my pre-marriage relationship with her, despite having a calm and rational personality. But kids (ours) mean I don’t have freedom any more, and I have to do lots of things together with her, as a family with the kids, and as parents in our joint responsibility and love for the kids.

    So I can’t very well say “next”. Very often I want to. And then I think of the kids and I can’t go further.

    It’s like she can’t contain her anger, bitterness, and competitiveness sometimes. It’s what fills the inside of her. None of us have done anything terrible to her. It’s just her nature apparently.

    Sometimes I get the upper hand, more often now since I’ve read a bit about game. But then she reacts and things swing the other way so she can show her anger and bitterness. Fluctuating with dread of abandonment when I do shut down my reactions for a day or so. And her games to force me to interact, by making it about some important family issue.

    Only about 6 more years to go and the kids are out of the house.


    • No husband or wife doesn’t have the “wait until the kids are grown” thought flash through his/her mind… and not a few times, either, over the course of a marriage.

      Some stay the course and hold both sides of that better/worse oath in regard… if only for the sake of their own eventual stand before Judgment.

      Most don’t.

      I don’t know the best path for others…

      All I will say is, after multiple viewings over the years, I still get choked up watching Frederic March’s scene in The Best Years Of Our Lives when his daughter accuses her mother and father of “never having had any problems”.


    • “Only about 6 more years to go and the kids are out of the house.”

      Use that time wisely to plan your escape. That’s plenty of time to orchestrate a clean break in which you emerge from the other end relatively unscathed.


      • This. Start working out. Start stockpiling money. Start preparing for initiating a divorce and protecting your ass. Keep reading Red Pill literature. Hit the ground running when you can finally escape…you have a whole second half of your life to enjoy. Your kids will understand, and they’ll want you to be happy when they realize what you’ve sacrificed for them.

        Good luck. 🙂


      • says the 31-year-old playah who’s not a father.


      • Is this what you’re going to do? As a 38yo divorcee who has to earn $4,000/mo and is frustrated that he hasn’t found a quality girl yet? Is THIS what you want to spend the next 10 years of your life doing? Really?

        You can follow me around the Internet and insult me as much as you like. It won’t change that you are at a point in your life where you have to either change your mindset and work on becoming more positive, or continue down the path you’re on.

        This is you right now, the guy being forced to make a choice:

        Right now you’re choosing the gun. Start gnawing on those fingers instead.

        It’s your your life, so it’s your choice. But you can tell your story to the entire world, and lash out at them, and the entire world can tell you that ya, you’ve been dealt some bad cards…but none of that will change that you have a choice to make right now on how you want to live the rest of your life: fix your mindset, work on your internals, and make time for what you want…or stay negative and become a Manosphere regular, telling everyone your sad story over and over until you grow old alone.

        I’d be happy to link some resources for you if you want the help, but if you choose to stew in bitterness and anger and keep telling yourself what a victim you are, I won’t waste my time digging those resources up for you because you won’t use them.


      • You can lead a horse to water…


      • I’d accept some resources for internals kind sir …


      • Thanks. But part of that is wrong. I didn’t say I have to earn $4,000. I could do that working part time. I have to earn enough to be able to *pay* $4,000 to a woman I’m not fucking and still have enough left over for my life. So I earn about $13,000/month pre-tax. I’d rather not. I don’t need that much money. I’d rather go back to running my own business and being more like you. I’m a slave to my corporate job *because* of the needs of my ex wife. Actually I’d love to be able to earn only $4,000. That would be easy.


      • @checked out

        So what’s the plan? Spend the next however-many-years looking for sympathy on here? Or are you going to figure out how to make time to meet more girls and look for higher-quality girls within that?

        You will not meet a high quality girl if you are waiting for her to just magically appear. That’s just how it works. The universe doesn’t care if you only have a spare 10 minutes once a week, that 10 minutes should be spent meeting girls if you want to meet a high-quality girl. The universe doesn’t give a shit if you work your fingers to the bone and die alone. It will not send you the perfect girl, you have to find her.

        I’m telling you that there are things you can actively do now to start leading yourself toward that. You have to fix a bunch of internal shit because you’re holding onto a fuckton of negativity that isn’t going to help you if your goal is “find a high-quality girl to be in a relationship with”.

        That’s either important enough to you to start working on getting rid of your justified angry victim-mentality you’re hiding behind, and figuring out how to make time for it, or it’s not, in which case you can keep telling the world how rough you have it and how life isn’t fair until you’re a bitter jaded old man bitching to the nurse in the nursing home.

        If you have time to post here, you have time to go meet more girls. Do Daygame on the street, in malls, etc. during your lunch hour and for an hour after work. Or if you want to try the bar scene without staying out all night hit it for an hour and bail.

        When you meet more girls, learn to screen them harder and faster so you waste less time. Work on fixing your negative outlook…like attracts like, if you are a shitty negative person you will attract shitty negative people. You don’t deserve the high-quality chick with her shit together because internally right now you are not a high-quality man with your shit together.

        I keep stressing that right NOW and as you are NOW, you’re not going to get what you want…because I know that you can change and you can fix it. You can start heading down a better path tomorrow if you want it. The only thing holding you back is your ego that’s frustrated that Lily and I aren’t giving you the sympathy it feels you deserve. The same ego that will reject help so that it can keep feeding itself on it’s own negativity.

        Down the road you’ll either calm down and realize that your outlook is not helping you and decide you want to take control and fix it…or you’ll keep spiraling down this path, maybe head to another forum telling your sad story panhandling for sympathy until you find a group of bitter old men who will pat you on the back, hand you a cigar, and welcome you to their “failed at life” club and you can live the rest of your life out wallowing in self-pity and hating the world and everyone in it.

        Down the road in a few weeks or months or who knows maybe a year or two, if you decide you want help, just post here and say “@yareally what were those links?” and I’ll link you some shit and legitimately wish you the best of luck. You don’t have to keep being a 38yo overworked divorcee who spends his free time bitching over the Internet.


      • Hey Yareally… “@yareally what were those links?”

        Let me explain. I personally am married. I find that I cannot really “game” my wife all that much. It’s just something that happens when you’ve been married for decades. But what does seem to work pretty well, is demonstrating my game ability with other females, WHILE IN THE PRESENCE OF MY WIFE. Lo and behold, it seems that my lovely wife has taken note of how other women respond to my playful teasing. I think she’s beginning to notice how I am consistently generating IOI’s w/ other women. My wife has dropped a few hints about this. Now she is beginning to be more responsive to me. Now I am able to press my agenda with my wife more often (be sweet, be available, make me a sandwitch).

        Go ahead YR, post some links. Save some marriages.


      • @Stark

        Everyone’s situ is different, so what I’d recommend for Checked Out is different (and more intensive) than what I’d recommend for you, cause he has some massive bitterness to deflate and a bunch of inner headspace shit to rewire before he’s even back on a good track. For you, or married guys in similar situs to you, I’d simply send you right to Athol’s Married Man Sex Life:


        It’s only a $10 book and the MAP (Marriage Action Plan, I believe?) is the key part…it sounds like you’re basically executing parts of that now, but semi-blindly. It might give you some direction and a solid plan of action to keep heading down the path you’re on with your marriage.

        I also like that MMSL is basically advocating raising your value and keeping it raised, which gels with Hypergamy and not getting lazy and becoming low-value once you’ve locked down a girl. Like I say, the only girl that’s impossible to seduce is the one who believes her man is the best man she can get.


      • as a 38 yo father of a mini-sigma, my job is harder. this makes Ya smarter especially when i write a $1200 support check every month.

        game sees and respects game.


      • Thanks guys. I’ll be 60, but still there are quite a few years left after that. I think if there’s a divorce the kids’ college scholarship opportunities increase. You have to show some trauma otherwise you get nothing, like everything else in this leech society.


    • Game, analogous to health, is best used as preventive medicine starting from avoiding hazardous occupations. Certainly it is useful even in the OR minutes away from flat lining. I believe what I am seeing here is the report back from the Inquest.


    • One thing I would say, is to resist the temptation to get involved with another woman, until your marriage is officially over. It will just give your wife a reason to claim victimhood, even when she is not one.


    • David, start working out hard and staying late at the office once or twice a week. Or disappear for a few hours on the weekend and be vague about where you are.

      Also… some women are just miserable and nothing short of a handful of meds will fix it. I’m not saying don’t try.. just don’t beat yourself up if nothing works.


      • Some women lololzz


      • … make a lot of sense.

        Amy’s recommending some light dread game, which is about what I’ve been doing and it had indeed been working. The encouragement is helpful.

        Too much dread can be sort of dreadful, but it’s a useful part of the toolkit, used (I like to think) subtly.


    • Thanks again. Amy, yes the “other woman” thing is a lever I don’t need to have used against me. We do still have sex, it’s just all the other times that she demonstrates Borderline Personality Disorder.

      Chi-town I agree that in some sense we’re talking inquest here, but one of the main purposes of fucking is to create kids, and the kids need to be raised as we were or there’s no next generation of game players. And take it from me, a woman can change a lot when the kids come along. I am biologically not needed any more, I am supposed to go away and kill antelopes for them to eat or something. So love turns to hatred. When my kids went away to camp for 2 weeks last year, she became sweet again and remarked later how nice it was with them gone. When the kids returned, so did all the nasty stuff. There’s something chemical going on. And so maybe I can plan ahead that when the kids leave I’ll have a sweet wife again. But that feels like it’s way past the point that I can forgive and go on together. The shit has not just been annoying and abundant. It has been strategic and ruthless.

      Lara indeed “dread” is about the most effective thing with her. I used to have a moral revulsion to effective tactics, since they are arguably unfair. But “all’s fair in love and war” is not just pretty words, it’s a description from a survivor.


      • Who is the disciplinarian? I am quite sure that something chemical goes on with me whenever my children begin to make my wife tired and angry. Quite possibly it is some engineering in me that sees mating opportunities decline. It may even be the your offspring not wanting the competition. Your Id needs to step up.

        I had a sweet wife ,and still have one. She has little need to be the bad cop because I don’t tolerate disrespect from them. I warn them from time to time I don’t want to hear her have to say it twice.


      • Chi-town you are describing a solution to a different problem. You’re lucky that your wife is still sweet to you, but I have never let the kids run wild. If you read what I wrote carefully, you’ll see I am describing something different, something that perhaps you have perhaps not had to face.

        Your reply, off-point as it is, makes me think I should have been less diplomatic in my last reply to you. But I didn’t know you are also a parent, so that gives your reply some credibility nevertheless. You simply have a better marriage than I do.


      • Yes I suppose I read in some haste but there is still a general application.

        I will comment when I have more time and this time not in haste.


      • OK so in the general sense almost every marrige with children changes the dynamic. And in my case I identified that problem to keep that dynamic from altering my marital bliss.

        I was also somewhat dimplomatic about what appears to be quite a few posts that are too deterministc as if a lack of chemical catalyst in your diet has resulted in your life. However on my part, a failure indeed, I did not read carefully about your situation.

        “My wife’s genetics were formed from the requirements of an antelope-hunting society,”

        “something chemical going on”

        That is besides the statements of resignation.

        Its as if you are falisifiable experiment .

        At the end of the day maybe she is just a bitch…. , but I am going to need to see a little more chin up from you. It may be understandle to be fatalistic since I don’t know what you have been through but its still not functionally useful.

        So if you have a good time with your wife without kids you may be able to find out what it is or merely give you the best you can do. Does she not like the kids? Is she jealous of the kids? What happens if you leave with the kids? Is she as happy or is she unhappy you leave? Even becoming the diciplinarian may be helpful because you may appear to take her side, addressing jeaslousy as well as having the authority to tell her you will handle it. I have seen not a few mordren parents who are raising spoiled idiots.You may widely differ on this. Its something about da kids…..something chemical just seems like bullshit unless proven otherwise. She could be a crazy bitch but ….


      • chi, your suggestions for “chin up” seem to do with evaluating the kids. Well they’re good kids, they try hard, I doubt that my doing something different would improve them.

        Sometimes my wife says they are becoming like me and that’s a terrible thing. But of course that’s a well calculated comment because there’s no possible answer to it, a way to criticize all of us at the same time.

        Yet at the same time, I can say that various other adults say very good things about them.

        All this talking here is helpful to me, the questions are good and probably help me clarify things in my mind. Some of your comments are hard for me to respond to. Indeed if something chemical is going on, it may be hard to influence, but if I am right and something chemical is going on, is it “chin down” too much to say it?


      • OK here’s what I want to know. You say that you made an adjustment to the expected change of dynamic when kids enter a marriage. (You must have known a lot more about these things than I did at the time, I just learned as I went along!) You say your wife remained sweet to you, likely as a result of this change.

        Indeed the adverse change in my wife’s behavior after kids arrived is at the heart of my complaints.

        So I think the question is begging: what change did you make?


      • I merely looked at the relationship between the kids and my wife as it would affect our interaction. You just observe the things that trigger the thing you don’t want. Find out what triggers this from the kids. Your choices then are altering that dynamic, positive and negative reinforcement.

        However to me I believe she feels either jealous or isolated. Perhaps she thinks your interaction with them is the problem ,and its not easy for a mother to consciously become angry when a father spend times with the kids. Pure maternal guilt. The viscera loves them, but the mind not nearly so much. Could drive a women a little nuts indeed.

        I’d spend 1 night a week alone with her just to find out what happens. Treat it like controlled social experiments.

        I’d also stop arguing with her. It is beneath your aristocratic heir to do so…She may state her case , but never answer on the spot. “I will consider” , ” duly noted”, “…. That changes the dynamic so they she petitions her grievances to her kingly sovereign. It is the duty of the king to tend the flock so you ought to answer, but at your royal leisure. No arguing….


      • Chi, interesting thoughts, thanks. I had never thought that my interactions with the kids could be making her guilty. And the “I’ll consider it” is very nice. I’ve been existing too much in the world of rationality and decision making, and too little in that of role playing. It’ll be a personality change, but that’s what game is after all. 🙂

        I’ll commit to reporting how it goes!


      • imo ..you stumbled on it here .. you are not needed..so .. carve out your own life.. meaning don’t do family stuff unless you want to ..develop your own interests ..there are few things that are actually obligation..

        the problem with this is she will start to realise you are growing again without her..and she will either panic ..more crazy .. or act correctly from dread..both suck ..b/c not real .. don’t forgive her .. you will regret it ..nothing worse than being tethered to an old woman who needs you as opposed to respects and admires you.. and who has pissed away the goodwill in the relationship..

        last 20 years of my life .. I prefer not to live with resentment and obligation

        good luck..stay strong


      • But I am needed. I am the musically talented parent in the family and one of my kids is becoming a pretty serious musician, probably the best in his school. I supervise his practices. I teach the kids math. And so on. One cannot rely on the schools to provide education — what they give is the bare minimum for what’s now called “college and career readiness”. Stuff like how to balance a checkbook and indoctrination that we all have to be social justice advocates. This “education” must be corrected and extended. I would have no less for my own children, my flesh and blood.

        My wife’s genetics were formed from the requirements of an antelope-hunting society, but looking around me, that’s not what I observe around here.


      • So, you have to choose two of the following: giving your kids a good education, being your own man again, doing stupid shit your wife dumps on you. Right now you’re helping your kids and putting up with your wife. Switch to helping your kids and doing more interesting things yourself. Bonus: you can involve your kids in your new life and accomplish two things at once.


      • Move out and do it on a visitation basis? Trial separation? I always assumed life was worse for kids from broken homes, but if it’s put that we’re just getting away from each other to stop the arguments I suppose it could work …I am not sure of the emotional effect it would have on the kids and would welcome any comments.

        But I would end up with far less time with them. Just proximity of being in the same house all the time is pretty useful, I would think.


      • I don’t know if you need to move out. Can’t you just make your own schedule and leave her out to dry if she tries to force you to spend a day with her parents or whatever? Broken homes are definitely bad for kids, and you can make your home a better place for them by being stronger and more of a man. You can make it your home.


      • OK now I understand.

        I don’t really understand the “being more of a man” part but that’s OK, there’s a reflex in some people to say things like that. Or maybe I wasn’t clear, I do determine most of the activities at home. The issue is not that she’s making me visit her friends too often.

        But interestingly, she lately seems uncomfortable about us seeing joint friends, the family whose new year’s party we attend every year, etc. Maybe she thinks I’m getting a bit too much game in my interactions out in public? Just a guess, anyway I don’t worry about it.


      • I don’t mean “more of a man” in an inane, glib way like “be macho”/”don’t be beta”, I mean to flood your house with your fatherness/husbandness/masculinity/sexuality.* Like you say you’re close; it just sounds like the inner emotional core of your marriage/family needs your direction just like the external. Don’t give your wife’s vampirism anywhere to hide.

        *I see how that can sound weird, but I think they are all facets of the same thing. Your children’s academics and emotional stability greatly benefit if you lead your house sexually; likewise I think you’d be less attractive if you couldn’t give a shit about your own children’s academics. It’s all part of you.


      • I think you’re right. And I haven’t figured out yet how to do that, when i can’t just go rip my wife’s clothes off.


      • Your wife doesn’t understand that there are boundaries and that boundaries describe *the limits to her cruelty.*

        Decide what your boundaries are, and tell her to respect them. If she does not, she will threaten you with divorce hell. Fine. Tell her to move out. She’s a female, she assumes she can kick you out of your own home, and she will have absolutely no preparation for an ultimatum that she leave the family that she is destroying. Then your children will see you for what you are: the man yet standing, on their behalf.

        I have been in your shoes and I only figured it out too late. I did everything wrong. You are loyal to your children, you are also, btw, loyal to your marriage. If your wife can’t restore her loyalty to you and your family, let *her* walk. NEVER walk because she refuses to respect honest human boundaries.


      • We’ve been through that stage and neither of us was willing to leave. I thank God for giving me the strength to hang in there. Literally I was guided to that.

        But she isn’t leaving either. So we are literally staying together for the kids, sometimes so that each of us gets contact with the kids. Like joint custody in the same house, that’s how it feels sometimes.

        And come to think of it, that may be why she won’t let me complete normal parental tasks like disciplining the kids without intentionally screwing it up.

        And yet, when the kids were gone for 2 weeks (long after the worst of the divorce arguments) she became close, just while the kids were away and for maybe a week of transition after they were back.

        It’s a crazy situation. As others have suggested, it’s far past the “divorce point” in many ways.


      • You sound winsome in respect of the two weeks when the children were away. You love your family. That feeling never goes away and it is a heavy load some days. Good luck.

        I worry that you are too in love with the family you used to have. If your descriptions are inclusive, unfortunately, that family is already gone, because your wife has killed it. In the present circumstance, I’d just give her an ultimatum: treat me the way you did when the children were away, or one of us is going to set up shop in the basement.

        The fact that she treated you well when undistracted by children reveals two things, to me: a) she’s simply a reactive personality, devoid of abstract thinking ability, critical thinking ability, or even a basic sense of fairness; and b) she has the maturity of a 10 year-old.

        Your children will remember your loyalty to them and as frightening as it is to contemplate a busted family, if your wife goes that way, your children will remember that you stayed home, with them.


      • Well she hasn’t killed the family, we are still here. Our first child came quickly, and around then things changed, and they haven’t really changed back since. That 2 weeks when the kids were away was an interesting datapoint though.

        But she has killed a part of the feeling I had for her in our early days. I used to feel that the marriage really was a bonding where we became one entity. I could physically feel it. I now reject that feeling. I don’t dare enter it any more. I cannot trust like that, even though I believe there was no sexual cheating. There was lack of trustworthiness, willingness to damage, of other sorts. We’re now back to being two individuals. Also, her dread of this separation may be the only thing that attracts her back.

        Is it impossible at all to have a stable male-female relationship without the female being afraid? Will a woman always be a bitch unless restrained by fear? Seems so. Slow learner that I am, if I can get still more comfortable with that idea and learn to modulate it better, my own comfort level and confidence will probably increase.

        Most days it seems she has a BPD spell, a half hour to two hours in length. Today was an exception. Maybe it’s something in my attitude that I am getting from here, from unburdening on you folks here and learning from what you say. This evening went completely smooth, which is unusual.

        Another part of having the kids gone is that it’s easier to go back to alpha sexual behavior, easier for both of us to fall into sexual behavior and forget parent behavior. Like the old days! Maybe that was a part of what happened then.

        One thing is for sure, sex is very important for my wife and for every other woman I have gotten to know well. They do not deal with the lack of it as well as men can. And while lack of sex can cause an alpha man (we are all naturally alpha) to act beta, it can cause a naturally pleasant woman to become a monster.


    • on August 8, 2013 at 6:51 pm Zombie Shane

      > “It’s like she can’t contain her anger, bitterness, and competitiveness sometimes. It’s what fills the inside of her. None of us have done anything terrible to her. It’s just her nature apparently.”

      Do you guys go to church?

      It sounds like the nihilism is mighty powerful in her heart.

      Absent some sort of a “Saul of Tarsus on the Road to Damascus” moment in her life, it sounds like you’ve got your work cut out for you.

      What was her major in college?



      • I don’t think I could go to church. Too much nonsense, I never attended a church where I agreed with more than about 20% of what the sermon said. I’ve tried a few flavors of churches. While such a church may exist somewhere, life’s too short to keep looking. My conclusion is that all the churches are giving a similar message that is consistent with their IRS tax exempt status, and I can’t stand to sit through that message week after week.

        She thinks I am antisocial and unfit to be in public because of things like that. Maybe that’s true. She’s entitled to that opinion anyway.

        My wife and I are both PhD’s in applied math. We met in grad school. That’s why we’re older. We both worked before grad school too, I much longer than she.


      • on August 9, 2013 at 6:38 am Zombie Shane

        > “My wife and I are both PhD’s in applied math.”

        Wow, that is so weird.

        On the church thing – can you find a church with a really outstanding music department?

        And would you be qualified to get involved with their music department – as an organist or a choir director or a trumpeter or a bass-baritone singer or somesuch?

        Or maybe you could get involved teaching advanced math [as a volunteer] in the church school?

        Or hell, start your own church – I’ve been giving a lot of thought to doing that myself.

        Anything to try to lead by example – to get your wife back out into the real world, interacting with real people – which might help to chase a little bit of the darkness out of her heart and to replace it with some warm-n-fuzzies.

        Added bonus being that if she is determined to disappear into the darkness, never to re-imerge again, then you’ll have recruited a harem of fine young church girls ready and willing to take her place.



      • I don’t think I could go to church. Too much nonsense, I never attended a church where I agreed with more than about 20% of what the sermon said. I’ve tried a few flavors of churches. While such a church may exist somewhere, life’s too short to keep looking.

        You don’t have a choice between churches. You have a choice between some church and all of the abyss. Purpose or nihilism. It is not a surprise that you have so many deep-seated problems.

        You do not attend mass for fun and games, songs and happy bullshit. You go to regain perspective on your mortality, which helps you concentrate on what matters in this world and to ignore what doesn’t. You do not go there for entertainment or satisfaction or even education. You go there for solemnity and stillness, reflection and strength.

        You don’t go for stemwinder sermons — if you want that, I have a dozen websites to direct you to. You go as a weekly reminder that there are more important things in this world than yourself and the detritus you have accumulated over the course of a life (and the course of the previous week) — such as the burdens you are attempting to unload here on a website. You go to derive power from a community of imperfect fellow travelers, sinners who are striving for justice like you are.

        “Life’s too short.” Indeed. And you are wasting what’s left of you on the things that will amount to nihil. If there’s “too much nonsense,” go and lead them out of it. Your life, and the lives of your children, depend on it. Or will you see them be led over the cliff the way you were?

        It is impossible to live without a metaphysic. The choice that is given us is not between some kind of metaphysic and no metaphysic; it is always between a good metaphysic and a bad metaphysic…

        — Aldous Huxley, Ends and Means

        If only perplexed but right-minded men like you understood that you don’t have a choice to be religious or irreligious. You only have a choice about which standard of ultimate goods will direct you. For the left today, their religion is politics, which makes them deadly dangerous. For checked-out men, their religion is sports or games or hobbies some other solipsistic cultural pursuit. For burnt betas and stomped-upon omegas, they find their faith here, on sites like these promising their Transfiguration into Alpha, Here and Now.

        To be truly independent, you must be conscious about which influences unconsciously guide you. And to do that, there is no substitute for practicing faith. If you aren’t constantly refreshing the dogmas and doctrines, malignant falsehoods will creep in to fill the vacuum your slothful disregard (“I don’t think I could”) allows. This is how otherwise strong men become sheep under a shepherd who hates them. They are given their diversions, their bread and circuses, they are told that they are “free,” and they content themselves spinning around on the state-provided hamster wheel. They do not understand that true freedom requires a man to stare directly into the abyss. And if you think you can do that unaided, without a community of courageous counterculturals behind you, then you in your misguided arrogance will offer yourself and your family to be swallowed up by the nihilism:

        He who fights with monsters should take care that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you.

        — Nietzsche, BG&E 146

        No website, no mere philosophy can deliver you from this trap. It must be a total metanoia — body, mind, soul, spirit, and strength — to even stand a chance. Alone you can only shout against a hurricane.

        Now, do you only agree with “20%” of that? What corners of your soul remain to be disabused?



      • What “abyss”? There is none.

        There is a species of panic, an eschatological hysteria, which demands that all questions about the meaning and purpose of life be answered already, finally, and posthaste, or else one will suffer the indescribable ravishment of the “abyss” of nihilism, a fate imagined to be worse than death.

        This is the special cowardice that afflicts the kind of intelligent and anxious men that gather here to brood on local conditions: yourself, Zombie Shane, CH, all share this dread. You are the mortified heirs of Nietzsche, fathered by his burnt antennae.

        What did he really detect? he saw that man is alone, plunged into unanswerable change and futurity, a fate which he pretended to embrace, but in fact dreaded, as a child dreads the dark.

        I see only light.


      • Do you contradict yourself? Very well, then you contradict yourself, you are small, you contain solitudes …

        What “abyss”? There is none. … [and] … man is alone, plunged into unanswerable change and futurity, a fate which he pretended to embrace

        Your philosophical bravado amounts to whistling past the graveyard. You don’t fool me with empty declarations about “light.”

        The “special cowardice” — the dread “as a child dreads the dark” — is made manifest in those who pretend the abyss doesn’t exist (“There is none”). Faithless drones project their anxieties onto us. They think faith is a refuge for the small-minded, rather than the practical attempt to find a way to live despite the uncompromising abyss. Your dour insouciance about the possibility of living a good life tells me all I need to know. Just pretend the abyss is a figment of fear and, bam! no hard work to do!

        Nietzsche himself understood how limited the atheists were, how poorly prepared they would be containing the pandemic of despair after the death of God.

        The smug godless are not revealing to us something we faithful don’t already know.

        Rather they are in utter denial at the fact of their death and extinguishment and oblivion. They imagine that acknowledging the One Inevitable Thing in its full “indescribable” horror would compromise their independence, as though they would live forever and free of superstition so long as they avoided a mature acknowledgment of “the undiscover’d country.”

        They convince themselves that their own death is a trifle with childish inanities like, I won’t feel anything, so I won’t care, even as they obsess over health and blindly run from the reaper. So the force that controls their unconscious is given lip service and is dismissed as, Well, whattareya gonna do? Like that will slake the universal thirst for immortality.

        Yeah, I don’t buy it.



      • There once was a man named King
        For whom the play was the thing.
        In his telling, the tale
        Acted like a third rail
        – Only this gave it a specious ring.


      • Purpose can be virtue alone — or self-actualization, in psycho-babble. Your mass can be reading the great books, and your congregation can be the great minds.

        As for confronting death without the shield of glibness — I agree with that. Drop some acid, focus on dying, and prepare for a bad trip. When I (drug-induced but real) thought I was going to die, I realized that my despair came from how much of a miser I was, probably still am — with everything from time to conversation. It was my failure to give more to the world that stung.


      • Your mass can be reading the great books, and your congregation can be the great minds.

        No, it can’t.

        If that worked, I would have been the first acolyte of that religion. But worshiping great men and great books is sterile, dry, a myth of the philosophes. It produces no fruit.

        I invite you to try, if only to get back to the living water before you are too old to reverse your mistake.



      • Matt this is ridiculous. Do you worship your congregation?

        Reading books and talking with people is not the same as worshipping books or people.


      • “You’re gonna have to serve somebody.” — Bob Dylan

        The delusion of worshiping the books or the author of the books or the wisdom derived from the books is that it makes the worshiper think he is empowering himself, when all he is doing is treating an abstraction as a god fit to be praised.

        The piece of the equation both you and Scray are missing is how ultimately unsatisfying the deification of ideas must be. We are simply not wired to become intimate with vague notions, they cannot contain, they cannot respond to our burst of neediness and gratitude.

        And if you believe you are immune to such neediness or gratitude, then you are playing an awful trick on yourself, a trick you do not realize until you are outside of it, from where I am testifying to you. What happens is you direct your gratitude and neediness to manmade divine simulacra, like Wisdom, or Dionysus, or the god of Football without a direct affirmation of creed — because to positively affirm one’s worship sounds like a curtailment of your freedom. (Freedom — another god which most Americans worship by default.)

        Of course the failure of this accidental religion does not manifest itself in ways a man can easily identify. So he keeps returning to the well that makes him thirsty, blaming his dehydration on anything but the parched gods he worships.

        So now you split hairs about worshiping something (?) in “congregation” with the great books versus worshiping the great books themselves, which is an interesting if irrelevant point of inquiry having little to do with worship rightly understood.

        Tell me: Who or what is your god? What is your object of highest concern towards which all of your efforts are directed? Your family? The Thousandth Notch? The Billionth Dollar? Wisdom from the greats? The bottle? Yourself?

        “If any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.” — Luke 14:26

        Just because you don’t know what you are worshiping doesn’t mean you worship nothing.



      • I worship the Truth. It comes in many forms and I found a particular lack of it in “church”/

        I particularly like game because is based on truths about men and women, not politically correct myths. I enjoy myth busting and helping myself and others shed illusions.

        Since you asked me this question, I ask you: what or whom do you worship? Since you said it’s very important to go to a congregation, what does going to a congregation have to do with that worship?

        I was suggesting that if you say I worship books (about God), then you must worship the congegation (about God). It exposed a flaw in your reasoning. I do not worship the books even if I may have an experience of worship from reading them. Wasn’t that clear the first time I wrote it though?


      • What more to life is there beyond “you are alone,” and “you are only human?” The purpose behind acting virtuously, expediently is to free yourself from guilt. So much rests beyond your control that the only way to maximize happiness is to maximize your efforts and without doubt know that fault rests with fortune, rather than you.

        Living with the truth, instead of finding distractions from it, takes courage.


      • Matthew, thank you for your sincere and impassioned remarks. I will continue to disagree on those points, and I must bet my very soul, eternity, all that there may be for me and for everyone, on my being right enough.

        Because I think the denominational religions are wrong, I’ve tried enough to say I find little truth in any of them. I believe I have communicated directly with God, or at least a reliable spirit that I can trust to protect me and guide me. I am willing to take this risk, the very risk that the Roman Catholic church says is too risky,when saying the Pope must intercede for me. I think that for at least some of the recent popes, they should have had me interceding for them — I saw nothing to trust in their leadership.

        It s the same way that I approach significant literature like the Bible. I pick it up and I read it. I don’t need someone to interpret it for me or tell me what verses to read. I read all the verses myself. My parents and school teachers taught me to read, and I learned well, so I can do this.

        I don’t think God gave me a holy book so I can ask someone with half my education what it means.

        I feel, actually, that it’s my responsibility as a human being. As an able one. I’ll take my truth straight, with a twist of lime perhaps. When I go to congregations and find the experience dumbed down and flat wrong in a lot of ways, I don’t care that the Pope says I must go there. I’ll go my own way.

        And didn’t Jesus Christ say one should pray in a closet rather than in public if it’s to mean anything. In fact the same idea is found in the Old Testament, at least that was my interpretation when I read it. I think it was called the Festival of Booths in the KJV. Why do denominational churches not mention these things? If anything in the Bible is inspired, I think that idea is.


      • on August 9, 2013 at 7:54 pm Zombie Shane

        No, you’re not supposed to pray in public.

        You’re also not supposed to give alms in public, either, and yet they pass the collection plate anyway.

        But you go to church for the camaraderie – to get away from the dark, black, overpowering, soul-crushing nihilism of the monsters who populate the universities and the NGOs and the upper crust corporate elite.

        You go to church to be around normal folk – the salt of the earth – who have a positive, upbeat, optimistic, hopeful, inspired [and in some cases inspiring] outlook on life.

        People who have children, and grandchildren, and maybe even great-grandchildren.

        People who honor their ancestors [ancestors who are buried in the graveyard right outside the church], but who also are deeply vested in the future [through their children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren].

        As opposed to your typical university/NGO/corporate monster – some damned sodomite or salt-n-pepper post-menopausal spinster, living alone in an apartment filled with cats, having no children of their own, and so self-absorbed in their own solipsistic nihilism that they haven’t talked to their parents in weeks and haven’t seen their parents in a year or more.

        Spending your entire life in nothing but the company of that Darkness will be the ruin of you.

        So you get out and start spending some time with folks who are CHEERFUL.

        Who want to LIVE.

        Not die.


      • ZS a good perspective. Maybe someday I’ll find a congregation I like. I was raised in a Unitarian congregation, so it was sort of leftist and I decided I didn’t want politics from the minister, so I stopped going. I’ve dipped into Catholic and some other Christian denominations, and I found the sermons so awful that I felt I was an impostor there. Certainly I could not believe both the Bible (as I saw it anyway) and what they claimed to be preaching from it.

        I need a church without a doctrine. The Unitarians say they have no doctrine but they really do: leftism.

        To be honest I don’t find universities to be dead places. Maybe the leftist departments like sociology and women’s studies are. They get a lot of publicity because they like to make noise, and their stuff is so obvious anyone can sit in their classes and have an opinion just like the “experts”. But I spent my life in nerdy departments like engineering and math, and I found fellow nerdy people, I can’t remember any of them being gay at all, normal people who shared my taste for abstract thinking and the truth. I found my religious experiences from that source, and there’s a lot of life there and trying to do all that’s possible in the human condition.

        Also a lot of ineptness with girls. And a great undersupply of girls. It’s just a freak accident that a cute one happened to join my grad deprtment as a first year student when I was in my third year, and I snarfed her up in the first week or two.

        If I could hang out on a uni campus again and do like what I did once and take a completely different course (for me it was Roman architecture) I’d have a lot of fun. Hm, that’s a possibility …


      • You’re 50s-ish?

        So your memories of the University are late Jimmy Carter, early Ronald Reagan?

        Maybe you went back to school late GHWB 41, early Clinton?

        I defy you to set foot on a modern university campus and not want to start crying or screaming or pulling your hair out at the overt nihilism you will see everywhere you look.

        Do you not glance through your alumni magazines, or just look at the damned cover of them?

        Or keep an eye on what passes for “discourse” at your school’s Scout.com or Rivals.com webpage?

        Just a relentless drumbeat of 99 & 44/100ths percent pure unadulterated dark black poison and venom of nihilism.

        Shelob the Spider ain’t got anything on the monsters which populate the modern university.



      • Because I think the denominational religions are wrong, I’ve tried enough to say I find little truth in any of them. I believe I have communicated directly with God, or at least a reliable spirit that I can trust to protect me and guide me.

        So you fancy yourself another John Smith or David Koresh, a self-declared mystic-witness who has gazed upon the Deity and lived? “You cannot see my face; for man shall not see me and live” (Exo 33:20). How do you “pick … up and … read” or interpret that particular passage unaided, a passage handed down to you through a sacred scripture selected by the very church whose authority you deny? An authority explicitly confirmed by those scriptures which say:

        I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

        — Matt 16:19

        No, brother: “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling” (Phil 2:12). The proper disposition to the word of God is humility. Do you imagine a dilettante can pick up an instruction manual for a Boeing 787 unaided and fly it safely? You “don’t need someone to interpret” a nuclear power plant binder of protocols written in ancient languages “for [you]”? No, you rely on interpretations of translations of interpretations of select works, but since that reliance is buried in a history of which you are not aware, you imagine yourself free to declare moral laws unto yourself.

        I am willing to take this risk, the very risk that the Roman Catholic church says is too risky, when saying the Pope must intercede for me. I think that for at least some of the recent popes, they should have had me interceding for them — I saw nothing to trust in their leadership.

        And here is an excellent example of ignorance leading to misinterpretation. Please direct me to where in Catholic doctrine “the Pope must intercede” for you? The Bishop of Rome is the Servant of the Servants of God.

        Don’t flatter yourself to think you are taking a “risk.” You are playing it safe, sticking with the familiar. “Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few” (Matt 7:13-14).

        Setting aside your precipitate snark, so easy and so typical of the modern sarcastic, explain to me how “recent popes” — especially, Paul VI, Bl. John Paul II, and Benedict XVI — have failed in the shepherding responsibilities for a flock of over a billion? John Paul the Great provided the popular insurgency to topple an empire, even while he was admonishing the West that our culture of death would lead to the very difficulties you personally struggle with today. Paul VI was a lone man — even among his inside counselors — to predict our cultural demise nearly 50 years ago, and the consequences have since been made manifest almost as though they followed a script. Benedict warned of the “dictatorship of relativism” and called the heathens of the crescent moon out for what they are, even as the rest of secular Europe has invited that infiltrating minority to cuckold them and their unique political birthright, even as Benedict at Regensberg extended an alliance to the post-Christians to save them from their own pusillanimous, preemptive capitulation to the horde without a fight.

        And didn’t Jesus Christ say one should pray in a closet rather than in public if it’s to mean anything.

        Further evidence of the danger of a partial education. Christ said to be wary of such people. Christ warned about Pharisaical hypocrisy. Christ said, “My peace I give you,” and also said, “I came not for peace but with a sword.” Christ said many things.

        In one context he said pray in secret; in another — indeed at the very end of the Gospel according to St. Matthew — he said, “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you” (28:19).

        The point is, as Christians the very first thing we do is acknowledge we are way out of our depth when it comes to the mysteries of the universe and our place in it. You do not realize that fetishizing self-reliance is the very cause of your troubles. And guess what? Neither do I realize it. Neither does any faithful Christian. Which is why we go for our weekly reminder, subject to all the human foibles and flaws though such rituals are.

        We go to witness that, cut off from the community (communio) of God’s grace, we are sheep in the midst of wolves. The satanic-nihilist fantasy that you can choose to be a wolf is what makes you prey to still bigger predators. In the light of the One Who created and Who sustains the universe, who told Dave that equality with Him was something “to be grasped” (Phil 2:6)?

        You do not go to mass to “trust in” some cleric’s by-definition-sinful “leadership”! You go there to help that cleric out of his sin, just as he helps you out of yours, just as the mere proximity of the gathering helps us all in a mutually-supporting solidarity. You do not attend church to “find … truth in” some doctrine you will find false two weeks from Thursday. While the church invented the university, their missions are different, if connected. No, you gather with brothers under the Spirit to fortify them, even as you are fortified. Just like the reason you came to this forum, to strengthen and be strengthened. Your intellectual pursuit is a separate matter than attending mass. You show up to worship, and from that worship, you “Go forth and preach the Gospel,” and in that going forth you are strengthened, and in that strength you chase after wisdom, now effectively.

        All you secular and semi-secular people, heads slung low in hangdog defeat: I want to grab you by your collars and shake you out of your dogmatic trance! You’d follow any dogma — to which your presence here testifies — except for the dogma that can deliver you! You seek solutions in every charlatan except the One Who can truly heal. You are thirsty and you keep going back to the wells that do not quench. “Every one who drinks of this water will thirst again, but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst” (John 4:13-14).

        All I can say from the other side is: it quenches. You can keep talking yourself in circles about worldly solutions to this or that irritant or conundrum or predicament, you can keep up with the tasks of Sisyphus and blaming your circumstances on fate or women or even your own weaknesses. Or you can actually put your hand to the plow (Luke 9:62) and drive straight to the source of what’s inhibiting you. You can actually do something that works and is guaranteed to work by the very One Who made you. By my life and by my God, I testify to that.

        καὶ λέγων, μετανοεῖτε, ἤγγικεν γὰρ ἡ βασιλεία τῶν οὐρανῶν.



      • Matthew, just a few points. Starting with last first, you advocate helping out the church system by attending church. How many? One, two, three? I choose zero and to engage in other activities. It wouldn’t be too hard to make that one, there is one nearby where my kids have been invited to the Easter egg hunts that seemed very pleasant. More than that would seem like too much. But why isn’t two hours spent responding and supporting in online chats just as appropriate and more efficient?

        Regarding Popes, surely you’re aware of the pedophilia in the RCC. It’s a terrible crime against young boys. While Cardinal Ratzinger (later Pope and now Retired Pope Benedict) wanted to crack down on some obvious abusers, JPII ordered him to hold off and let more young boys suffer. Need I say more about him?

        And several times the RCC has said they must stand in the middle. For example in 1302: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unam_sanctam . (This is the question on which you just called me ignorant!) I believe either Benedict or Francis said something similar recently, if somewhat indirectly, but I am not sure and don’t have the link handy. It’s the basis of all the RCC infrastructure, why you have to confess to another human being who gets to hear those confessions from you week after week, year after year, etc. So I surely don’t choose that “church” but why choose another one? I haven’t found one that I want to go to every week.

        You’re aware that Francis just clarified an aspect of the sale of indulgences, right? And he’s a Pope I like! http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130717/06150223833/fire-sale-pope-francis-trades-indulgences-twitter-followers.shtml

        Invoking names of other people, John Smith, David Koresh, is what you did not me. I am just myself. I won’t go further about humility, because there’s really no way to discuss it objectively by conventional norms. Where I am called to lead I try to do so, and I know well the feeling of fear and trembling, but even game is about pressing on in spite of nervousness and uncertainty. I have been guided through many periods of fear and trembling, one of them involving my wife as I discussed here a few days ago.

        If you prefer, I am not taking a risk but playing it safe. That is what I really think anyway. I don’t have confidence in those big 501c3 institutions meeting weekly and expecting some guy to get up in front and do a sermon every week, and he regularly makes mistakes and says things I disagree with when he does so. Instead I do things as I see fit, and you can call it whatever you want.

        Thank you again for your sincere concerns, but I think we will continue to disagree as friends on several of these points.


      • I wrote a point by point reply to Matthew’s post at least 8 hours ago and it’s still “awaiting moderation”, I don’t know why. But I hope that this brief reply will make it and show that I did reply, pretty much point by point.

        And if the moderator is just away and the other one eventually gets posted, sorry for this extra one.


      • “So you get out and start spending some time with folks who are CHEERFUL.”

        lol. A whole room full of people who think this?:

        “to get away from the dark, black, overpowering, soul-crushing nihilism of the monsters who populate the universities and the NGOs and the upper crust corporate elite.”

        “As opposed to your typical university/NGO/corporate monster – some damned sodomite or salt-n-pepper post-menopausal spinster, living alone in an apartment filled with cats, having no children of their own, and so self-absorbed in their own solipsistic nihilism that they haven’t talked to their parents in weeks and haven’t seen their parents in a year or more.”

        “Spending your entire life in nothing but the company of that Darkness will be the ruin of you.”

        Sounds like a cheerful hoot to me!

        Why not just be happy all the time and try to like and appreciate the world around you? It really isn’t that bad out there lol

        This is just a drive-by comment, the irony was too funny to me to not point out.


      • Life’s a LOL, and then YaReally dies.

        MAJOR HINT: men do not have to be told this, toolbag. Your reinforcement is superfluous.

        You just can’t fathom that some men have advanced past your adolescent inanities and are prepared to sacrifice some portion of dick-friction to achieve something great while they yet breathe.

        You are digging too deep a hole for yourself. When you do come face to face with the superficiality (or sheer uselessness) of your creed, you will have squandered your credibility — primarily to yourself, which even now causes you to pass on the most useful pieces of wisdom because they can’t be translated into a happy-go-lucky tone. And on the rare occasion you do want to speak straight, you look like a clown delivering a sermon. “No, seriously seriously, guys, I’m being, like, serious.”

        The boy who cried LOL, wondering why no one takes his earnest pontifications in the spirit with which they are given. No one can regard you seriously. You will have none of it.




      • Setting aside your precipitate snark, so easy and so typical of the modern sarcastic, explain to me how “recent popes” — especially, Paul VI, Bl. John Paul II, and Benedict XVI — have failed in the shepherding responsibilities for a flock of over a billion?

        Oh good grief. They aren’t even popes. Would a real Vicar of Christ mutilate the Mass like Paul VI did? Kiss the muzzies’ book, get a mark of Shiva on his forehead, worship with pagan snake-worshippers, or have a Buddha on the altar of Assisi, like John Paul the “Great”? Hail no.

        Somehow, leftoids took over the Vatican in the 1950s and 1960s. These so-called “popes” are not Catholic any more than Saudi Arabia’s King Abdullah is.


      • Yeah, Corvinus, I’m not traveling down that pre-conciliar rabbit hole with you. Ours is the living God, directed by the Holy Spirit. I’m not one for nostalgia as a comprehensive solution for decadence. And belligerence is self-defeating in this context.

        You are giving too much weight to the symbols and signs that modern media specialize in distorting through improper emphasis, since that is the only form of communication they can process.

        Whatever else the modern popes did or did not do, Humanae Vitae, JP2’s generational return to orthodoxy, and Benedict at Regensberg was worth quite a few superficial foibles. Of course there have been mistakes and omissions, a bumpy whitewater ride on the Bark of Peter. The way of the Cross was never promised to be anything other than a perpetual challenge, until the Lord returns in final, apocalyptic glory.



      • Yeah, Corvinus, I’m not traveling down that pre-conciliar rabbit hole with you. Ours is the living God, directed by the Holy Spirit. I’m not one for nostalgia as a comprehensive solution for decadence. And belligerence is self-defeating in this context.

        Read this statement again. You sound rather leftoid/Protestant here.

        You are giving too much weight to the symbols and signs that modern media specialize in distorting through improper emphasis, since that is the only form of communication they can process.

        This is only the tip of the iceberg, but the tip that I hoped would at least force you to think. Why would the “Pope” kiss the Koran, the holy book of a false religion that damns souls? One must also consider the Vatican II “popes” and their repeated promotion of religious ecumenism, that the Catholic Church is not the only valid church, that Muslims and other anti-Catholic religious practitioners can go to heaven, not to mention modernism and so forth, which pre-Vatican II Popes have repeatedly condemned as heretical. So is it possible for what was wrong then to be okay now? Not a chance. By any objective definition of pre-Vatican II magisterium, all the “popes” of Vatican II and afterwards are manifest heretics and ineligible to be pope at all! And the scandal they’ve provided not only to Catholics, but non-Catholics searching for the truth, becoming interested in Catholicism, then being turned off by post-Vatican II heresies… I hope I have made it clear that to answer your question, “explain to me how “recent popes” — especially, Paul VI, Bl. [sic] John Paul II, and Benedict XVI — have failed in the shepherding responsibilities for a flock of over a billion?” is not all that difficult. It is obvious, at least to me — but the tenacity of belief in false papacies shows that it is also a horrendous pretty lie that needs to perish, for the good of billions of people’s immortal souls.

        Whatever else the modern popes did or did not do, Humanae Vitae, JP2′s generational return to orthodoxy, and Benedict at Regensberg was worth quite a few superficial foibles. Of course there have been mistakes and omissions, a bumpy whitewater ride on the Bark of Peter. The way of the Cross was never promised to be anything other than a perpetual challenge, until the Lord returns in final, apocalyptic glory.

        I’ve said it before: Humanae Vitae was a moldy bone thrown to conservatives to get them to shut up — which in the pre-Vatican II Church would have been considered self-evident — and the vast majority greedily bought it because the apparent “pope” issued it. Never mind the fact that he also issued and promulgated the blatantly Protestant Novus Ordo Missae, and even invalidated Holy Orders so that all but the very oldest bishops aren’t even valid. I mean, even Protestants are right about some religious things, does that mean we should become Protestant and associate with them? And JP2 hardly brought about a return to orthodoxy. Benedict too was a sneaky modernist — not as blatantly leftoid as Francis, but sneaky heretics are always worse than the obvious ones anyway.


      • I’m not quite ready to put scare-quotes around the word pope, and frankly, if I didn’t respect you from a long history of prior posts, I’d summarily dismiss you as a crank. As it is, I appreciate your information and will reflect upon it.

        Because most of it is new to me. I never heard that the pope kissed the Q’uúa”’raihñ’n. I am not a leftoid or liberal, I am a follower of Christ whose last words on earth were to “make disciples of all the nations.” That does require some muscular ecumenism and some temporal political concessions. I don’t see any concessions of dogma or doctrine the way you do, and the adjustments of Vatican II do not excite my worst-case-scenario paranoias.

        In any event, this internecine string of accusations and thirst for schism is the last thing the church needs up against the ongoing modernist threat. Her mistakes and solutions occur over the space of centuries. Everything from the church’s perspective is the long view. My fidelity is to Christ through the institutions he established, warts and all. Whatever necessary reforms or returns to orthodoxy must occur internally. It is not my responsibility — thank God — to protect the deposit of the faith. I do entrust that to the Holy Spirit, whom I also trust to deliver me from the machinations of worldly saboteurs hidden like the devil in clerical collars.

        Just as canon law says imperfect priests can deliver the body of Christ perfectly, I also believe the sins of magisters do not materially affect the reception of God’s word. By grace we see him face to face, faith itself is a pure gift, no matter the intentions of those who would mislead his bride the church “through a glass darkly.”



    • on August 9, 2013 at 1:04 am Hugh G. Rection

      WTF is a sigma? Is that more like a rho or more like a vega?


      • “Sigma” is a self-determined, fabricated appellation for omegas who want to keep a portion of their omegatude while claiming themselves to be Better Than Alpha.

        They’re aloofer than aloof! So detached from society that they are proudly unsociable. It’s the claim of nerds that their exile from the pack is voluntary, because they are too good to move effectively among men and women. It’s the cult of the supposed “Lone Wolf,” who magically reinterprets his social rejection into a superior pose; i.e., Pee Wee Herman’s “I meant to do that.” They meant to be isolated and alone, you see, but they could be alpha if they wanted to.

        Sounds an awful lot like plain omega. That’s because they have cycled all the way back around.

        This is what happens when you leave ethological categorizations and typologies to those outcasts who mutually socialized each other in DnD dungeon meetings.

        It’s really just inside “manosphere” baseball. It is useful to flush the chumps, and that’s about it. Those who employ the vocabulary (and there’s more, like “delta” and “gamma” and “lambda”) are anxious men who think themselves too advanced for the Alpha-Beta-Omega standard. In other words, since they cannot plausibly claim “alpha” for themselves, they make up a bunch of other nicknames to avoid the dreaded “beta” and “omega.” It is a version of special snowflakery. The Klingon language gives this community a bad name.



      • Damn. You nailed the fuck out of that one, Matt.


      • I agree with all of this. It’s one of the first things I rolled my eyes at when I found the Manosphere.


      • I thought Sigma described a man who prefers to roll solo but can also mingle in social situations. I don’t have many friends, a few close acquaintances here and there. I’m juggling 3 women right now, not a whole hell of a lot but more than most men. All of my sexual conquests in the last few years have been solo cold approaches. Omega?

        A man with strong inner game and even stronger emotional fortitude can be happy mostly alone. Or at least sexually satisfied.

        Sigma calls to mind comic book anti heroes and literary private eyes, men that can move gracefully in society but don’t seek validation and comfort from social proof.


      • And why is this modification to alpha necessary, other than a self-aggrandizing rationalization for one’s social discomforts/shortcomings?

        My problem with the typology is its unorganic origins, a top-down imposition over phenomena that are irrelevant to the sexual market place, rather than a concept which occurs so frequently that it required the convenience of its own name.

        Alpha-beta is the only distinction worth noting because it separates dominance from supplication. Even omega is superfluous as anything other than an epithet — the outcast, the irrelevancy, the zero in the sexual equation. All of the useful discussion is about whether a personality or an action is strong or passive. It doesn’t really matter if it’s “private-eye”-like, especially since such estimations fit so neatly with the omega’s fantasy about himself.

        If you want to talk about introverts and extroverts, that’s coming from a different angle that is beyond the scope of this forum’s intersexual purposes.

        Likewise, animal ethology has a very different understanding of alpha (leader), beta (leader-in-waiting), and omega (runt) than is presented here, though with plenty of overlap.

        I christen myself Iota Eta Pi.



      • Omega is also useful because it explains the source of supplication. Betas are passive by choice, mostly. Unfortunate circumstances make an Omega passive.


      • Mostly yes with a little no. I think Vox is correct in the taxonomy, but perhaps incautious in sharing it with the internets. Anyone claiming to be a Sigma is almost certainly a man who matches Matt’s description.

        Matt, I’d be interested in your thoughts on this analysis of Vox’s system:



      • Vox is invested heavily in his precious little taxonomy. His defenses of it are a function of his aneurism-popping ego and are therefore useless. Yours is rational and therefore one worth responding to. Although, whenever I see any of those terms put to use, it irritates me. I immediately hold the user in contempt until proven otherwise: he is using the inferior language of another man without independently vetting it, he is playing the bitch to a blowhard who brags about his Mensa membership as a regular point of argument.

        Country Lawyer, the first commenter on your blog post put the criticism as well as I could. Getting too detailed and refined about general subjects risks getting lost in the weeds, obscuring the forest for the trees, especially if the descriptions are essentially irrelevant to the thesis.

        Vox’s big declaration, that he was adding a unique “socio-” element to the “sexual” hierarchy seemed promising, but he shit the bed (just as his promising gang blog quickly devolved into another of his soapboxes for tedious pontification). He added nothing substantive to our understanding, he simply pronounced new categories for semi-familiar students to lose themselves in, multiplying the confusion exponentially. He is a science fiction writer and LARPer; his instinct was to create a Dungeon and Dragons “alignment system” and attempt to impose it on the world with a fiat he assigned to himself. It’s embarrassing to even be associated with such efforts, as summed up by lone female comment on your post, “You boys need a hobby.”

        Taxonomies should be reverse engineered. Take facts on the ground and distinguish them when and only when lexical efficiency demands a new name. The problem with inside-cults — as the “manosphere” is determined to remain — is that they develop a series of unnecessary acronyms and jargon that obfuscate rather than clarify. They make communication harder rather than efficient as a nerdly (if unconscious) attempt to identify/separate out the uninitiated from their role-playing club.

        Here’s the further complication.

        [C]onsider the career of the most popular sports pundit to emerge from the online era, Bill Simmons. He has a relatively functional personality, but he revolutionized sportswriting by adopting the nerds’ virtual approach to data-amassing. Traditionally, a newspaper’s baseball beat writer would laboriously follow the local team around the country, watch each game from the stadium press box, then trudge down to the locker room to ask tonight’s hero what kind of pitch he hit for a home run. To Simmons, that seemed like a ridiculously low-bandwidth way to analyze sports. Instead, he stayed home and watched four televisions at once.

        In contrast, the social-network era of, say, 2005 onward has seen the Revenge of Normal People. Twitter is restricted to 140 characters, a length that us nerdy straight white guys find absurd. How can anybody say anything that is true, new, important, and interesting in 140 characters?

        But most people don’t care about saying things like that. They just want to say whatever is on their minds at the moment. They have a life.


        A white man’s natural tendency to comprehensively analyze a phenomenon down to the last jot and tittle is perhaps the key element enabling the cumulative storehouse of knowledge in the west. It is the basis for all modern science, the reason why we developed advanced economies and technologies while the rest of the planet remained backwater bronze-age feudal shitholes.

        But, this engine requires a governor. A man will get lost in his obsessions to the point of destroying the original project. See the faux precision in CH’s “Dating Market Value Tests.” Or YaReally’s 20-screen entries in pursuit of comprehensiveness. Someone recently posted a link to some Australian dude who had a 50-page report for why and how he should be dated. (“Firstly, my cock is larger than average…” [I paraphrase]) It is a compulsive disorder that, properly tempered, builds skyscrapers and takes men to the moon. Left to its own devices, it consigns autistics to a world of quantities and descriptions collapsing in on himself, A Beautiful Mind territory, a runaway virtue that develops into an illness.

        Which, by the way, chicks do not dig.



      • … Pardon, it was a 99-page guide, illustrating a typical extreme manifestation of the white man’s autism:



      • Yeah, I think the “sigma” appelation is stupid too. The only difference I can see between an “alpha” and a “sigma” is that the “alpha” is/was in the Greek system and the “sigma” isn’t.


      • A sigma is a man with a ton of passive value. Because the man has a ton of passive value, he is welcome in most social situations. However, this fellow chooses to be a “lone wolf.”

        This “type” is so exceedingly rare so as to barely merit mention. I’ve never met or seen one. The reason why we can only think up fictional characters to describe it should be a huge red flag.


      • It feels good to be this rare. 😉


      • To answer in your context, sigma of course is the standard deviation, generally applied in that context to the rate of return.

        However in context, I’ve been told it means someone who gets alpha results without appearing to act in alpha ways. Whatever you call me 99% of the time, when I wanted to get the girl who became my wife, I was either alpha or sigma, by the usual definitions.

        Matthew’s entitled to his definition too, but that’s not what I meant. Or maybe he thinks I am deluding myself, and he’s entitled to his opinion about that too.



    • You’re a hero and an impressive man for subordinating your interior life for the benefit of your children. Godspeed.


  8. what’s especially beautiful to me is the simplicity, clarity, and brevity of that. he has said so much, so well, in so little space. can you imagine the entire tome…


  9. Found this old-timey and spot on anti-suffragette cartoon.


  10. Thank you. This article is a superb piece of work. To place Game in its rock-solid historical context is perception, bravery and honour all rolled into one. Magnificent. Thank you again.


  11. “What in that antediluvian, 90% white America paragraph is substantially different from anything taught today by avowed pick-up artists? Answer: Nothing. The only major difference between the “game” of yesteryear and the game of today is the scientific strength and experimental feedback that modern seduction proponents draw from relatively recent developments like evolutionary psychology and instantly transmitted field reports..”

    I agree 100%. As I’ve said many times, PUA isn’t “theory”. It’s what works, taken from comparing mass amounts (hundreds of thousands of reports) of Field Experience across ages, classes, races, locations, etc and distilling it all down into consistent patterns. We reverse engineer what successful Naturals and hot women do, and compact it all into an easily teachable framework that men can learn and apply.

    This is why Feminists and anti-gamers can’t argue with “agree & amplify to pass a shit-test”. It’s not theory, it wasn’t invented by a guy in a fuzzy hat. It’s a consistent tactic that produces a reliable (not 100% because we’re all human, but extremely high %) result. If you tell me it doesn’t work, that tells me you haven’t been out in the Field enough because if you actually were, you would come to the same conclusion that Mystery did, that I did, that men in 1910 did.


    • “This is why Feminists and anti-gamers can’t argue with “agree & amplify to pass a shit-test”.

      Oh they can argue, just not effectively. It doesn’t matter how proven the science of Game is, if it doesn’t pass the feminist or manboob ideological purity test then the evidence is inadmissible.

      It is fruitless to try and help these types learn Game and improve their lives before shedding these prejudices. Maybe YaReally, with his gift for teaching, can manage it, but I certainly don’t envy him the task.


  12. Another classic tome is Robert Greene’s The Art of Seduction. It includes many classic examples of great seducers in history. Highly recommend it.



    • on August 8, 2013 at 5:24 pm Dan Fletcher

      Second drive-by post to Amazon with referral ID in the URL in this thread. Please take this spam elsewhere.


      • lighten up francis.i doubt its greene pimping his own shit.


      • on August 8, 2013 at 6:13 pm Dan Fletcher

        No shit sherlock. Either way, I would rather not have this board overrun with spammers.


      • on August 9, 2013 at 1:05 am Hugh G. Rection

        It’s too late for that. How often do we see a “reblogged at” comment? Fun thing is that shit goes right through the filter while legit stuff is being held up in moderation. WordPress stinks.


      • Why not?

        It’s already overrun by far worse in the person of:

        King A, the Bugatti Veyron supercar of IQs, driven by the idiot of dogma, Wile-E.-Coyote(super-genius)-style, straight into the brick wall of Ivory-Tower BS;
        (or: Object-Lesson-in-“A Mind is a Terrible Thing to Waste”)

        Greg Eliot, Bizzaro-world, bootlicker-straordinaire toadie to previous supercar-savant-idiot



        -Could the spammers possibly be much worse?


      • Lots of posters now mock matt k for his alleged romantic interest in me. Yareally did too. I don’t get it. Why is it an insult to say you have a thing for femx? Like matt k and femx sitting in a tree… we are not 7. Why is it shameful to be accused of liking a chick anyway?


      • Riiiiiiight…

        Ronin, eh?

        You paper tiger fairy.


      • I love how we haunt them. Even on threads we don’t bother to engage, our presence still invades their every waking moment. You know what that means, don’t you?



      • You know what that means, don’t you?

        I don’t want to know… these philistine company men are starting to task me.

        And as far as that Brokeass Mountain sh!t goes… I don’t wanna see it… I don’t wanna hear it… and most of all, I don’t wanna smell it.


      • Lol Ronin that was the funniest comment I’ve ever read on ch and I don’t even dislike the aforementioned posters, that was some humor I must say.


      • You are apparently easily amused… like most of your South Park generation.


  13. I think it took divorce and single motherhood. Otherwise at the dinner table the interaction between mom and dad would teach the offspring more than enough (including men who dared to discipline their children – Don’t get Dad mad, but if you give mom trouble dad will get mad were the summary of the commandments for a peaceful household).


    • That’s how I grew up too. My Dad wasn’t an imposing figure, but when he made a decision, that’s what we did. And if I got Mom mad, Dad would always stand up for her. And vice versa.

      But my wife, knowing that, intentionally mixes that up and often intentionally confuses the gender roles, sometimes steps in and argues with me when I am about to discipline the kids and criticizes me at that time, etc. It’s pretty pathetic. As I said, she seems to be filled with a genuine anger and wants family drama, not just drama in the relationship with me.

      Oh well, at least the kids are learning something from the interaction, hopefully some good game concepts.


      • on August 8, 2013 at 7:51 pm Zombie Shane

        > “sometimes steps in and argues with me when I am about to discipline the kids and criticizes me at that time”

        Oh wow.

        Not good.

        Not good at all.


      • on August 8, 2013 at 7:53 pm Zombie Shane

        Ya know, I hesitate to get too obnoxious here, but has she read “50 Shades of Gray”?

        I.e. have you thought about maybe disciplining HER?


      • I am sure she hasn’t read it, but I haven’t either. Hm, a thought … I would probably have to do it in a “soft” way with kids around anyway. But dread is what seems to work.

        She does have an inner urge to destroy. I am just now hearing one of my kid’s bitter complaints because she shut down his computer without his being able to save what he was doing. She likes to pull surprises like that, especially when it’s convenient for her. She often thinks only of herself, but I know that’s nothing unusual. There’s often a nastier edge to it, like she enjoys causing minor damage to others as well as bringing a benefit to herself.


      • on August 9, 2013 at 6:57 am Zombie Shane

        > “She does have an inner urge to destroy… There’s often a nastier edge to it, like she enjoys causing minor damage to others as well as bringing a benefit to herself.”


        That’s a whole lotta darkness right there.

        Apropos of my comments above about doing something wholesome, like getting involved at a church, your wife sounds pretty dyke-ish to me, and she might wholeheartedly embrace the BDSM/swinging/ménage-a-trois scene, as long as she got to be dominant, and her little “sister wife” was always submissive.

        But that’s a helluva lotta darkness to delve into.

        Unless maybe you could get the submissive sister wife to give you another six or eight children.

        Again, though, BDSM sounds like it might be her thing.

        You just want to be sure that she doesn’t use it as an excuse to leave you for another woman.

        PS: Another possibility you have to consider is that your wife isn’t just morally “Dark”, but that she is legitimately neurologically mentally ill, and that she’s in the process of falling apart before your very eyes – that in another ten or fifteen years, you might have to institutionalize her.

        PPS: Is there any chance that she could go “Andrea Yates” on you?


        If so, then your first priority has to be the protection of the children.

        PPPS: The petty hurtfulness you’re describing [yanking the power cord on the computer] does ring true to my personal experience with BPD.


      • A lot to think about here. One thing I can say, she’s about as un-dykeish as any woman I’ve ever seen. In a world of feministas she was different. Otherwise I would not have married her. Of course there’s a lot I haven’t said in the few lines of description I’ve written.

        I’ll take seriously your comments about danger to the kids, and yet I am unlikely to try to push her away from them. I think we’re both strong believers in keeping the authorities out of our business, which is why we’ve gone this far. It may seem wrong to some, but I have pride in that. For all its faults, a marriage is for the people in it, not for the authorities to meddle with.

        And they’re not just my kids, they are hers too. Mine and hers, nobody else’s, and we are not likely to do anything that could invoke state jurisdiction over them. They are not the state’s, no matter what the state may think about the matter.


      • on August 9, 2013 at 8:41 am Zombie Shane

        Another thought about the BPD.

        The hallmark feature of BPD is the fear of abandonment – it’s what distinguishes BPD from Sociopathic Personality Disorder.

        Except it’s not a fear so much as it is a living, breathing nightmare – at the thought of abandonment, a BPD woman will start hyperventilating, and trembling, and she’ll curl up in the fetal position, and bite her fingernails, and when she runs out of fingernails to bite, she’ll start chewing the skin off her fingers.

        Now if your wife is kinda sorta “Soft-BPD”, then you could play off of her fear of abandonment, and use it to your advantage.

        For instance, if you got involved in a church, and started cultivating a harem of fine young church girls as your posse, then you could start throwing out little comments like, “Boy, that Lara Jones, she’s a heckuva gal; she’s gonna make one mighty fine wife for some lucky fella out there.”

        Which will definitely cause your BPD wife to raise her eyebrows.

        And then if you were to get deeply involved with math or music at the church, and if, say, Lara Jones were the 8th grade math teacher at the church school, then you could be all “Honey, I promised Lara Jones that I would help her prep the kids for the algebra portion of the Iowa Basic Skills in May. So I’ll be working with her for about three hours every Tuesday and Thursday afternoon for the next six weeks.”

        Or better yet, if Lara Jones were the youth music director, “Honey, I have to help Lara Jones rehearse the kids for the Christmas madrigal tonight. If we decide to go for a second run-through, then I’ll be out pretty late. Don’t bother staying up to wait for me…”

        That shit’ll drive a BPD wife absolutely nukular.

        Self-nukular, that is.

        On the other hand, if your wife is “Hard-BPD”, to the point that she poses a physical danger to the family, then you might want to think about a serious exit strategy.

        With the idea being that if there is any aspect of BPD which is not genetic, and which is in fact learned, then you definitely don’t want the kids “learning” that there is anything “normal” about your wife’s Darkness.

        And if that’s the situation – that you’re dealing with a truly dark and “Hard” BPD – then you need to start building a legal case for full custody and only supervised visitations.

        I believe that the standard technique involves keeping a written diary of your wife’s outbursts, and as much supporting evidence as possible [to include photos and audiotapes], and once you gather together about six months of that stuff, you can take it to the very best Family Law practitioner in your area, and ask him [or her] whether it’ll be enough to get full custody and only supervised visitations, or whether you’ll need a lot more than that to win in Family Court.

        Now a BPD can play the “good girl” for about 60 to 90 days, so as to lure people into her lair [and sometimes even up to six or nine months], but eventually the BPD will let her guard down, so that, before long, almost everyone in her acquaintance will have seen one of her outbursts, wherein she unleashes the Darkness.

        Point being that if she is really “hard-BPD”, then your wife’s co-workers will have seen the Darkness, and if you can find several of them whom you can trust, then they might be recruited to testify against her in Family Court.

        But the key here is “TRUST” – you don’t want to approach someone untrustworthy about this, and then, just as soon as the conversation is finished, that person immediately runs to your wife, and says, “OMFG, girlfriend, did you know that David is trying to build a case against you so that he can get full custody in Family Court?!?”

        Anyway, a first-rate Family Law expert can help guide you through exactly what you would need to do so as to prevail in your jurisdiction.

        If it’s even possible for a man to win full custody and only supervised visitation in your jurisdiction…

        Now for two final thoughts.

        1) While a man is anywhere from three to twenty times more likely than a woman to be a sociopath, sociopathy is not completely unknown in females.

        And if your wife doesn’t suffer from fear of abandonment, then she’s not BPD, she’s a sociopath.

        2) Traditionally, the witch doctors hated making the diagnosis of a “PD” [Personality Disorder], because it is well known within the profession that there are NO CURES OR EFFECTIVE TREATMENTS WHATSOEVER for the PDs, and once an official diagnosis of a PD was delivered, the insurance companies generally refused to pay for any further course of therapy at all, on the grounds that it was hopeless and a complete waste of money.

        So the witch doctors, being largely nihilists themselves, have been busy re-writing the DSM, to get rid of the PDs altogether, in the hope that, by attaching new names to the Darknesses which plague the people whom we now know as PDs, the witch doctors might force the insurance companies to pay up for their witch-doctory.

        Of course, with Obamacare just around the corner, it’s all so much rearranging of the deck chairs on the Titanic…


      • on August 9, 2013 at 9:28 am Zombie Shane

        On final thought on full custody.

        If you played your cards right, then it’s possible that you wouldn’t even need to use subterfuge to get full custody – it’s possible that she might just give you full custody willingly, maybe even gladly.

        I.e. if somehow you could get her into some really calm and gentle and honest conversations, and start asking her very forthrightly, “Honey, do you even enjoy being a mother?”, then you might be able to get her to confess that she HATES it.

        With a passion.

        And if that’s the case, then she might just give you the kids.


        Of course, this strategy won’t work if she’s true BPD, because then there will be the terror of abandonment dominating her life, and she won’t be able to bear the thought of being alone, without you or the kids.

        But it might be worth a shot – to start talking to her about whether she even wants to be a mother in the first place.

        On the other hand, it will tip her off that you’re thinking about leaving, which will make any subsequent subterfuge all that much more difficult to pull off [given that she’ll be plenty smart enough to anticipate the subterfuge once she knows that you want out].


      • Boundaries. She’s acting like a ten year-old.


      • on August 9, 2013 at 2:32 pm Zombie Shane

        > “She’s acting like a ten year-old.”

        If you’ve ever seen real, true, honest-to-goodness BPD, then you would know that it is so much worse than mere childishness or emotional immaturity..

        Like I was saying above, there’s a reason that the shrinks hate the BPDs – namely that there is nothing but NOTHING which can be done to help the patient.

        Absolutely nothing.


      • Yes. Twisted.

        As I said, hard to forgive.


      • The men here who haven’t dealt with a violent wife mean well, but their advice may be inapt. Be prudent as well as bold. Put your children’s wellbeing above hers. Have a plan, or have balls the size of church bells.


    • Great find, reading now and it is hilariously on point


      • Skimming through it, I am left with the impression it is part pro-fem (educate and put your daughters to work) with a few nuggets on the nature of woman that roughly equal those in modern game.

        How about this for the author’s misplaced thesis proven false by history: “If woman, after a long subjugation, were suddenly free, her raised to such a power as men now possess, we might reasonably anticipate disaster to society. But there is little fear of such a sex revolution. The transformation of woman will not be sudden, as from the waving of a fairy wand, but a tedious and painful process in which both sexes will suffer.”

        Partly true. The “transformation of woman” didn’t happen overnight, but the dam broke with the invention of the pill and advent of no fault divorce in the late 60’s in what was deemed “the sexual revolution.” The “disaster to society” is what is “tedious and painful.” We are nearly 40 years into it, and haven’t seen the worst yet.

        Enjoy the decline my brothers.


      • If women are emancipated slaves they are like domesticated animals opened the gate. Where is kitty? …. where one finds fat coyotes . What makes bad masters so detestable is that freedom is often a worse master since I recall even necessary revolts ending in the misery of ignorance and freedom. True slaves are in a poor condition to help themselves.

        Women are slaves to men in much the same way we are slaves and dependents to the fate that life brings us. Men are in fact slaves to their desire to women. To such a thing I am happily domesticated. I have no resentment in this dependency. No human comes into being without it.

        Contrast this forum which, unlike feminism, does not merely imply but asserts a man’s need for women. It merely wants for a condition. It is nothing but the means to obtain them. A feminist sentiment is absolutely a repudiation of their need for men.

        And they will endure their emancipation with not even a shred of canvas between themselves and the elements.


  14. Linking to this on my blog. Pure GOLD.


  15. None of this is new. But, the fact that someone could make money off of a “How-To” guide in 1910 suggests that the majority of men were always betas — which makes sense. It’s difficult to improve yourself.


  16. I think I’ve found a new favorite classics author. Here’s the list.

    List of Walter M. Gallichan’s books
    Like Stars That Fall (fiction 1895)
    Tales from the Western Moors (1895),
    Fishing In Wales (writing as Geoffrey MORTIMER) [1903/05]
    The Story Of Seville [1903]
    Fishing And Travel In Spain [1904]
    Practical Hints On Angling, In Rivers, Lakes, And Sea [1904]
    Fishing In Derbyshire And Around [1905]
    Cheshire [1905/21]
    The Conflict Of Owen Prytherch [fiction|1905]
    The Complete Fisherman [1907]
    A Soul From The Pit [fiction 1907]
    The Trout Waters Of England [1908]
    Modern Woman And How To Manage Her [1909]
    Old Continental Towns [1910]
    Where Trout Abound [1911]
    British Birds, Their Nests And Eggs, And How To Name Them [1914]
    The Soldiers’ English And French Conversation Book [1914]
    Women Under Polygamy [1915]
    How To Love [1915]
    The Religion Of Kindness [1916]
    Fishing Waters & Quarters in Wales [1916]
    The Great Unmarried [1916]
    The Psychology Of Marriage [1917]
    Life Enjoyable [1917]
    Letters To A Young Man On Love And Health [1919]
    A Textbook Of Sex Education For Parents And Teachers [1919]
    The Critical Age Of Woman [1920]
    Youth And Maidenhood [1920]
    Our Invisible Selves [1921]
    Youth’s Secret Conflict [1921]
    The Veil And The Vision [fiction 1924]
    The Happy Fisherman [1926]
    Pitfalls Of Marriage [1926]
    Sexual Apathy And Coldness In Women [1927]
    The Sterilization Of The Unfit [1929]
    The Poison Of Prudery [1929]
    Youthful Old Age [1929]


  17. “It’s time for American men to return to their roots.”

    Been saying it for years. Mostly it falls on deaf ears – those who think the Manosphere has discovered something new and better than 3000 years of experience.


  18. on August 8, 2013 at 4:43 pm True Irishman

    The Whistling Girl

    Back of my back, they talk of me,
    Gabble and honk and hiss;
    Let them batten, and let them be-
    Me, I can sing them this:

    “Better to shiver beneath the stars,
    Head on a faithless breast,
    Than peer at the night through rusted bars,
    And share an irksome rest.

    “Better to see the dawn come up,
    Along of a trifling one,
    Than set a steady man’s cloth and cup
    And pray the day be done.

    “Better be left by twenty dears
    Than lie in a loveless bed;
    Better a loaf that’s wet with tears
    Than cold, unsalted bread.”

    Back of my back, they wag their chins,
    Whinny and bleat and sigh;
    But better a heart a-bloom with sins
    Than hearts gone yellow and dry!

    by Dorothy Parker, 1928


  19. 1910 ! That’s nothing. Read proverbs. Three things keep getting repeated. A dog always returns to its vomit, a fool always sticks his bandaged finger back into the fire and there is nothing worse than a nagging wife


  20. on August 8, 2013 at 5:53 pm Libertardian

    Liberals: when you fail to invidiously redefine the terms of the debate (see: “assault rifle”, “anti-racist”, “anti-choice”, etc^googol), then just stick your fingers in your ears and scream.


    “This is the last Slate article that will refer to the Washington NFL team as the Redskins.”


  21. Men of 1910 were far more knowledgeable than men of 2010 because the men of 1910 viewed thousands of years of history as experimental evidence, while the man of 2010 needs “evolutionary psychology” or some other recent discovery to justify his beliefs. A lot of the past 50-100 years has been the rejection of history, custom and tradition (which includes religion) because there was no “proof” for it. Yet any custom or tradition that survives for hundreds or thousands of years is being tested in the real world over and over.

    You do not need any science to prove “game”. only the atheist fools need this type of reinforcement. There is thousands of years of real world experimental evidence on display for anyone who wishes to pick up a Bible or a history book.


    • “Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who merely happen to be walking about.” –G. K. Chesterton, “The Ethics of Elfland,” Orthodoxy (1908), p. 85.


    • on August 9, 2013 at 1:42 am Hugh G. Rection

      That’s an utterly dumb argument. There is a lot of value in knowing why things are the way they are, it leads to a deeper understanding. Especially since you use the term “evidence”, which first requires a theory to validate.


      • There is value, but not for all men. For most it is sufficient to act as their virtuous ancestors did. When you discard the collected empirical evidence of your civilization, you can only reacquire knowledge through intellectual striving or lucky guesses.


  22. Proverbs 21:19 It is better to dwell in the wilderness, than with a contentious and an angry woman.


  23. A few more resources.

    The pop singers Rihanna/Katy Perry clearly state these lyrics:

    “Cuz you’re hot and you’re cold, you’re yes and you’re no” (Push-Pull)
    “You change your mind like a girl changes clothes” (Don’t be indecisive)

    THe Muzzies Book Koran and perfumed garden says
    – Beat your wife with a stick no longer than if she misbehaves over and over again. And this is only after reason does not work (more often than not) (Chris Brown can verify)
    – If she is unruly and disobedient, force her to sleep on a different bed (withhold affection, induce dread)
    – Lead her and command her to do her 5 daily prayers (Dominance)
    – She will naturally be ungrateful and be worried whether or not you love her. Express your love through actions and not words (Demonstrate, don’t explicate)
    – You may have up to 4 wives if you take heed to treating them all equally (Running MLTR game and partitioning equivalent resources to avoid drama)
    – A woman’s testimony is worth half that as a man’s (Believe your sh!t, don’t believe hers)
    – Men who are young, bold, and have manhoods of good length and width are to be worshipped by men (Sexual prowess above all)

    and the kicker.

    “The woman’s vulva is her religion” (All hail the gina tingle)


    The book “Of Human Bondage” discusses the whole motif of “there are two people in a love relationship; one who allows themselves to be loved, and one who loves recklessly” (Whoever has hand wins and does less and is more desired)

    Keep up the examples, fellows. It’s time for ancient maxims to be upheld as the Truth and the Light once more.


  24. Re: Game in Literature; See Hemingway, The Sun Also Rises, Chapter 3 (1926)

    “I watched a good-looking girl…she came over and sat down at the table.
    ‘Well, what will you drink?’ I asked.
    ‘That’s not good for little girls’…
    We sat and drank it and the girl looked sullen.
    ‘Well,’ I said, ‘are you going to buy me a dinner?’
    She grinned…”

    Perhaps CH should start a series on “Examples of Game in Great Literature.”


    • Bukowski, in speaking to woman who just described her horrible ex-boyfriend :

      “But Joe was a good guy though.” The pros know how it works.


  25. Human nature will not evolve dramatically in 200 years.

    “Negro” Encyclopedia Britannica (1798)

    “NEGRO, Homo pelli nigra, a name given to a variety of the human species, who are entirely black, and are found in the Torrid zone, especially in that part of Africa which lies within the tropics. In the complexion of negroes we meet with various shades; but they otherwise differ far from other men in all the features of their face. Round cheeks, high cheek-bones, a forehead somewhat elevated, a short, broad, flat nose, thick lips, small ears, ugliness, and irregularity of shape, characterize their external appearance. The negro women have the loins greatly depressed, and very large buttocks, which give the back the shape of a saddle. Vices the most notorious seem to be the portion of this unhappy race: idleness, treachery, revenge, cruelty, impudence, stealing, lyng, profanity, debauchery, nastiness and intemperance, are said to have extinguished the principles of natural law, and to have reproofs of conscience. They are strangers to every sentiment of compassion, and are an awful example of the corruption of man when left to himself.”

    Some primitive cultures are incapable of supporting “civilized” social structure and ideals. Liberalism and feminism is 21st century white privilege and driven by the female nature to avoid physical conflict.

    Bella detesta martibus – Horas

    Wars are the dread of mothers.


  26. […] Tight Game From 1910 […]


  27. Yes, knowing ‘how to handle females’ has been around for a very long time (from the ‘beginning of time’ is a pretty fair guess) — in every culture.

    Still, that snippet article was a funny and poignant little bit of 1910 history.


    • Yes, knowing ‘how to handle females’ has been around for a very long time (from the ‘beginning of time’ is a pretty fair guess) — in every culture.

      Our Father Adam found out the hard way how much being beta sucks.


  28. Perfect that is to say, passionate love is not without fear on the woman’s side. Fear is a stimulant, like pain in certain forms; and there are women who can only love men who are masterful, with a trace of fierceness. Evidence
    of this fact is to be found in the very numerous instances of women who are strongly attached to harsh and even brutal men. The element of fear, which is a part of modesty, has a physiological use, and nearly all women experience this dread.”

    – Gallichan, pg 9

    This all sounds vaguely familiar. Where have I heard something along these lines before?


  29. on August 9, 2013 at 12:55 am Isaac Asstomouf

    The 1930s film “Freaks” demonstrates a bunch of game concepts… the wall, gina tingles and butthext, contextual alphahood, the futility of supplication, alpha fux/beta bux, etc.

    Great Films For Men?


  30. Apart from a few game tidbits, that thing was written by a gelded male. It’s an early apologia pro feminism. He practically comes out and cheers for matriarchy.


  31. Control your emotions…and you’ll control women.


  32. Have ever more care that thou be beloved of thy wife, rather than thyself besotted on her; and thou shalt judge of her love by these two observations: first, if thou perceive she have a care of thy estate, and exercise herself therein; the other, if she study to please thee, and be sweet unto thee in conversation, without instruction; for love needs no teaching nor precept.

    – Sir Walter Raleigh


  33. http://archive.org/stream/modernwomanhowto00galliala/modernwomanhowto00galliala_djvu.txt

    “Most women, if they are honest, will admit that they like to be subjugated now and then by a strong man. The breaking down of a woman’s natural instinct of resistance by a vehement lover is a process that few women resist for long, or afterwards resent. Every romantic girl dreams of being abducted by a powerful man, who sternly commands, but, at the same time, is ready to risk danger and pain in her protection. The universal role of women in courtship is that of the pursued, even when pursuit is a tame rehearsal of actual marriage by force and capture.”


  34. Bogart know how it worked :


  35. overheard family member’s wife

    “… and now i have to go to the store again tomorrow…” because she forgot something.

    “i’ll just go, don’t worry about it.” husband trying to get some quiet

    “that’s not the point, i’m just telling you.” dear god the whining

    “well problem solved i can go. why else would you tell me the story? you know i don’t like to hear it.”

    “well, i went through it, so you should have to hear about it.” i almost choked. it wasn’t a joke.

    he can’t fly from her presence due to kids. he handles it as well as can normally be expected, he’s not supplicating in any way, but she will not ever shut up and thinks any unplanned disruption is the world being against her.

    anyway, that’ll keep me unmarried for another decade or so, hope it helps others. it. never. stops.


    • on August 9, 2013 at 7:40 pm Zombie Shane

      The worst thing is when the woman ALWAYS has to have the last word, even when she’s utterly and completely wrong about whatever it is that she had wanted to be quarreling about in the first place.

      It’s like having a filthy God-damned j*w living in your house with you.


  36. I start reading the book and it is full of pieces of wisdom!!

    Just a sample:

    ” You do not insult
    a man by calling him a ” great boy.” It is not
    a mark of a feeble intelligence to take pleasure
    in simple things.”
    “we need not
    feel affronted when women declare that we are
    “only children.””
    “In their own feminine way, women are as
    childlike as men.”




  37. This book is Chateau of a century ago. Like really, read through it if you disagree. It’s on google books in its entirety.


  38. […] from yesterday’s post, further enlightening excerpts from that most awesome 1910 game guide titled “Modern Woman and […]


  39. A really skilled Viola player gets all the strange ass in any given regional orchestra. Because it is an inherently Neanderthal art-form. Not really human at all..Without the right genetic inheritance, Viola-playing is never more than transparent fraud. The average humanoid cannot even tune one properlerly. No mercy for these imposters!


    • Well very good hearing helps. Perfect pitch helps.

      But why viola players? They take major shit from violin players, and everyone in the music world knows it. There’s a special genre of unkind musical humor called “viola jokes”.mainly coming from the idea that violists are those who did not make it as violinists. Also the viola is a fairly inefficient instrument that cannot play nearly as loudly as a violin, despite being larger, and it’s pretty easy to get tired of its “mournful” sound. For example of viola jokes:


      Yes, guys do play violin, and girls do play viola, as well as vice versa.


      • > “Also the viola is a fairly inefficient instrument that cannot play nearly as loudly as a violin…”

        You can say that again.

        I’ve often thought that the standard modern orchestra should double or even quadruple the size of its viola section.

        And dittoes with the string basses.


  40. Well, the Gilded Age was sort of a minor precursor to what we’re experiencing today:





  41. I’m even more curious now as to the possible name of game/pickup in those times (just decades ago). I mean, to take it further back, the Don Juanes and Casanovas were prime examples of seducers being relevant then.


  42. […] (Also worth your time). […]


  43. Canadian fashion power couple definitely trend

    He’s the crackerjack tastemaker with the golden touch, renowned for his abilities at turning trends into reality licketysplit. It’s called Joe Fresh Style.

    She’s the elegant designer of Pink Tartan, a highend fashion line that has a seriously upmarket asking price.

    On her behalf label, [url=http://www.tudorlandsales.co.uk/]rl website[/url] Kimberley NewportMimran results in a highquality, highfashion brand that stands shouldertoshoulder with top international players in exclusive Us shops.

    “This could be the personal expression of any designer,” she says. [url=http://www.tudorlandsales.co.uk/]rl website[/url] “I must take this to showcase and then sell it.”

    She winks at her husband, whose numbers are exponentially higher thousands to her dozens.

    Since they approach fashion from totally different stances, this highprofile couple, the king and queen of Canadian style, are remarkably similar. And they also confess to just about no creative rivalry.


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  45. […] [Tight Game From 1910] […]