The Ugly Reality Of Open Relationships

I’m going to tell you something about so-called “open relationships” that you probably already suspected. I’m using the term of art “open relationship” to mean any longish-term relationship in which both partners have agreed in principle to the freedom to pursue trysts or concurrent relationships without punishment, and are fully aware in the abstract if not of the sordid details of each other’s extracurricular lovers.

Without giving away TMI and triangulated coordinates of secretive Chateau vaults, I have peripherally known a couple of honest-to-goodness swingers. They had a club and a meeting place where bacchanalia would attend under the tacit permission of local authorities. Spouse swapping was on the menu, along with sundry sexually experimental arrangements. The two men of my brief acquaintance were proud participants in the open relationship lifestyle.

Weirdly proud.

One was a giant goony ambassador for the pleasures of polyamory. “It’s not for everyone,” he would snobbishly intone in a preface to a twenty minute discussion about free love I had chanced into one evening. Decked in a soul patch, a three piece suit, and fondling a cane topped with a dragon’s head (“from Bangkok”, naturally), his “primary” — the woman with whom he lived — was a dumpy, squat, mid-30s Janeane Garofalo mimic. She was one of those bountiful fertility goddesses with steatopygia in the front and back, a strange trick on a white girl. She was with him, so I got to see up close the goth eye shadow and ghost rouge concealing her moonscape pores. After the dapper gargantugoon felt sufficiently pleased with my and my company’s feigned curiosity and he had regally delivered a layman’s guide to his sex at dawn, I was presented photos of his third wheel — strangely not referred to as his secondary — dressed in a slutty vampiress costume and biting his neck, and not to put too fine a point on it, she was butt ugly. Younger — maybe mid 20s — but ugly like Chinese crested dog ugly.

He crowed about sending her off on her own in seedy nightclubs to gather concubines into his whoreticultural goonhouse.

Months later, I met, through unusual coincidence, the second of the two self-professed polyamorists. Omega to the max. Besides his gangly physical asymmetry and receding chin, he had no discernible personality. Weathertalk filler would’ve added charm to his crashingly dull conversational skillset. Which surprised me, because one figures a man embracing a radically alternative sex life would have to be interesting along other dimensions.

This second meeting was far more disturbing than the first. I learned, diffusely through him and later more pointedly through his female companion, that he was his girl’s main man, meaning he lived with her, helped her keep up the home and hearth, and shared her pussy with another man (of whom he was aware) and possibly with innumerable men beyond his ken and his care. My morbid interest piqued, I tried my best to extract the juicy raunch from the moldy rind of their polyamorous polygon. Best I could piece together was that this outstanding specimen of malehood had three jobs: Paying the rent, attending auctions with his girlfriend, and eating her out.

Apparently, penis in vagina sex was off the table. Or uninteresting to him. Because the pride that welled up in them both was evident in their florid descriptions of his oral facility at parting her dandered waves of mange. And, more distressing to yer humble serrator, she clearly evinced delight explaining how this sexual selflessness would turn her boyfriend on so much he would stroke himself during the act to sterile inner calf-splattered completion.

As for her, while not entirely repulsive to the eye, her looks were not the sort of showstopper one would expect capable of enslaving even a wretched omega male into perpetual financial and cunnilingual servitude. Tall, bony, breastless, pockmarked with various tattoos and piercings, she had at least the saving grace of residual youth and thinness and a recognizably human female face. A solid HB5 in good lighting.

The worst of it was the emotionless cadence that infected his voice when he proceeded to explain how a polyamorous agreement meant monogamy didn’t “coerce” either of them to stay in an unfulfilling relationship. Both were free to love on the side, although, “at the moment”, only she had the pleasure of another lover (and the timely dart of her eyes suggested other lovers). He was, he noted, at present “not that excited about meeting more women”.

Of course. I thought at the time, and still do, a man can’t go lower. The incel homeless bum and his penis encrusted with twenty years of smegma has more dignity than the willing cuckold with the tongue glazed by the skankhole deposited sperm of better men.

Two anecdotes, to be sure. But adding my brush with polyamorists to the collected literature, a focused picture of the reality of open relationships emerges.

Open relationships are almost never two-way.

One party to the “creatively ambiguous” polyamory agreement is getting the metaphorical shaft, and the other the actual shaft. The shafted is typically, but not always, the male (no need to sully the word “man”), whose role is as the eminently mockable “beta bux” (or beta hugs) available for service during those three weeks of the month when the female’s libido goes into hibernation. That he may live with his openly open-legged girlfriend doesn’t mean he’s getting the lion’s share of her vagina. But he is getting the lion’s share of her feelings and tantrums and moodiness.

Even males who manage to fulfill their implied rewards from an open relationship are rarely sole owners of the sexual excess. The first polyamorous couple described in this post survived on the male’s willingness to whore out his “primary” to fellow travelers at their favorite swinger spot. And as CH readers should know by now, the sexual profligacy of women is a far more serious infraction in biological (and hence, psychological) terms than is the sexual profligacy of men.

Genuine, egalitarian, open polyamory for all practical purposes doesn’t exist among white Westerners. There’s always one or another party out in the asexual or anhedonic cold, nursing feelings of rejection and traumatic self-doubt. And if that party is a willing participant to his or her sexual/romantic exclusion, it’s a good bet he/she is psychologically broken, mentally unstable, physically repulsive, or suffering from clinically low sex drive. In other words, human trash.

Open relationship participants are almost always hideously ugly.

Polyamory is a mating ground for human rejects. Whatever else it offers, the open relationship ruse assists the comically low value sector of humanity to live amongst each other and experience pleasures of the diseased flesh.

True open relationships are predominantly polyandrous.

The general complexion of contractual open relationships — where all participants are voluntary and aware of proceedings — is one ugly to mediocre-looking woman on the pre-Wall fast track lavishing in the flaccid attention of two or more omega males. Invariably, the more masculine (and it’s all relative, so maybe it’s better to say “the less androgynous”) of the males would be the one who is actually porking her.

For a visual of this reality, see here.

Illicit open relationships are predominantly polygynous.

“Open” relationships that form organically from the unspoken (and initially unacknowledged) impulses and romantic decisions of one or another partner nearly always manifest into polygynous arrangements: That is, illicit open relationships are distinguished by one high value alpha male discreetly juggling multiple concurrent female lovers. Pickup artists call the illicit open relationship the MLTR: Multiple Long-Term Relationship. Genghis Khan called it Tuesday.

The MLTR exists in the gray area of the female mind where she senses a disturbance in the romantic force but can’t summon her courage, or dismiss her love, to disentangle herself from the web of lives. Illicit open relationships — soft harems in popular nomenclature — can have surprising endurance, because women’s love for an alpha male is stronger than their pride. For quite some time, a woman in love with a sexy alpha will sacrifice her pride and prejudice with a swiftness complete. This is true whether the alpha player informs all his lovers of their complicity in his pleasuredome, or if he keeps his dalliances on the down low. In the latter case, I have only ever seen girls promptly eject upon discovery of participation in alpha male soft harems if those girls were very beautiful, or getting on in years. Very beautiful women have perpetually groomed coteries of alpha male suitors to tap in times of crises. Older women have ticking egg counters and desperation that help their escape.

Illicit open relationships — polygyny circles — are far commoner than forthright open relationships that typically assume the polyandrous or rarer volatile and highly unstable polyamorous forms. Sex differences practically guarantee that this would be the reality we see, rather than the reality homely polyamory proponents would want the benighted to believe.

In the real world, the openly polyamorous nirvana of ‘sex at dawn’ is really the circus sideshow abattoir of ‘sex before personal hygiene’.


  1. […] The Ugly Reality Of Open Relationships […]


    • on September 17, 2014 at 5:00 pm Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM)

      Her: How do you feel about open relationships?
      GBFM: Yah! Open your mounth zwidexz!!!! WIDERSZ!


    • My Swami and I don’t have what would be called an open relationship by any stretch, but this topic has come up in our relationship and I discuss it at length in my blog post here.

      The gist of the post is that even though I am a woman, I am ok with strong men having multiple women, but strongly oppose polyandry because I don’t think it is workable. My Swami on the other hand, eschews both polygamy and polyandry. So given that he is the head of our household, we follow his rules. You can read more in the post.

      A different cultural perspective for those interested in such things.


      • Super NSFW splash image. Don’t click.


      • Yes, Sorry, I thought I had mentioned this on this website several times already. Sorry if it created issues for you. I will make it a point to point this out explicitly next time I comment. BTW, you should have gotten a “Adult content warning” before entering the website?


  2. MLTR is just political correctness for having several girls on your rotation.

    I have yet to see a man waste his time romancing all of them when he can afford being their lover pure and simple, or at most their R-selected boyfriend as Torero and Krauser put it.


    • yeah, I have had rotations when I’ve been inclined to and they all knew there were others and busted my balls lightheartedly about it. Nobody ever left. I mean they were always looking for a LTR on their own and there might be a gap here and there but it’s like they always came back to the roost.


  3. These kinds of arrangements as far more common than popularly believed. And the participants aren’t necessarily old and ugly. Far from it, in many cases.


    • All I’ve ever seen. Recently, I met a “trio” in one of the open relationships where the beta bux, alpha fux was in coming to a close. The beta bux got a lesser quality, not bragging about either trust me, and the less androgynous male stayed with the soon to be ex.

      Me personally, I’ve never understood it. Only banged a soft harem. But held many “draft days” per month because I never tolerated drama. Hate it actually.

      Averaged at least one a day. If one was better, the other had to go. Whether she knew it or not. If asked, I just didn’t answer.

      But these clowns, wheew, I pray they don’t have kids. Because let’s face it, these are the extreme dregs at the bottom of the barrel we are talking about here in all but the very few cases!

      Truly, it is not actually polyamory, but polyandry. You see, it is the queen bee, who incessantly pushes out her unwanted drones. These drones are looking at cold winters in hell.

      Most I have ever met swear eternal they don’t want kids. Now I understand!

      How could they possibly satisfy the reproductive desire of multiple men, and still cling to the infinitesimally scarcity of what’s left of their fleeting looks.


  4. on September 17, 2014 at 3:07 pm Holden Caulfield

    Beautifully written. If this post is the entree, a GBFM commentary is the dessert…


    • I agree.

      At the risk of being accused of groveling, I will say that CH writes so well that I find my self smiling while reading posts like the one above, not smiling because what I read is funny, although some of it is damn funny and I laugh out loud, but smiling because it is so damn pleasant to read.


      • I call it well-written, but remarkably unpleasant to read. It’s an unblinking, accurate, and depressing diagnosis of the cultural rot eating through the walls that hold up western civilization.


      • The content is not pleasant, it is in fact a bit depressing but
        CH’s delivery, his eloquence and his superb sense of irony make even depressing stuff pleasant to read.

        to me anyway…


      • Actually irony is not the right word…something that is a mix of sarcasm, cynicism and humor is what I am looking for…satire maybe?

        and that is why I do not have a blog, I am not that good at writing and I have no memory for the correct term that I know I know.


      • I’m not convinced this post was written by CH himself. I may be wrong, but to me it doesn’t sound like him.


      • Some have said it is possible there are 3 or 4 people posting as CH…

        who knows…


      • Indeed, the Heartiste brings to mind other cultured writers from times gone by. That is why it is pleasant to read: it shows that he is well-versed and grounded in Western culture. While some talk about it, he lives it, so to speak. It is not something you can fake, you have to have read classic literature and old commentary for a long time.

        I have always thought it important to read classic Western literature. You get a whole new understanding of our people.

        Read Knut Hamsun’s Growth of the Soil for example, it is fantastic reading about the Norwegian countryside, about working hard to succeed, and the perils of daydreaming without being prepared to toil away. It also very well describes the differences between men and women and between different kinds of men and different kinds of women. It won the Nobel Prize in literature in the thirties, when the literature prize was actually given to the best novels. I would say it epitomizes conservatism, in a way that a party program never could.


      • on September 18, 2014 at 8:22 am ALPHAbetacal Order

        Eh, seemed way too much like effort posting, and bordeed on the snarkery one expects from the worst types of proggressives. Eventually, the writing began to parrallel the polydorks being described. Maybe that was the intention. They can’t all be gems


      • on September 18, 2014 at 8:31 am ALPHAbetacal Order

        Interesting theory Spartan. I think this is more a case of contemplating the goon so intensely that our dear author became the goon.


      • Great way of putting it.


  5. Having been in an open relationship, I can say that much of what CH writes is true, but there is a lot more variety than CH’s sample size of two.

    It took me a long time to fully process the dynamics of my own relationship, but I can tell you it was a lot more like pimp and ho than cuckolding or omega mating strategy.


  6. Hmm I have an anecdote to contribute.

    I have two friends, both very attractive with naturally blonde hair and blue eyes in their 20s in an open relationship. He is the kind of man that every girl notices when he enters a room, while she is quite beautiful.

    They tell one another everything about their affairs and he does not get jealous as he says he can “learn things” from what happens between her and other men.

    From what I have been told, there are swinger parties only accessible to attractive accomplished couples.

    I have another friend into the fetish scene who is not attractive. I think the majority into such things are not, are as you said ugly, but to find the attractive ones you do have to know where to look.


    • Bullshit. Something is amiss. NO man with a gram of masculine fortitude would knowingly accept his main girl..or at least one he was investing any amount of his time/resources in to receive alternative cawk on the regular.

      Not buying it one bit. Something somewhere underneath is not right.


      • You actually have it exactly backward. Mate guarding and insecurity is for the weak.

        There is a certain flavor of open relationship – cuckold – which is profoundly unmasculine. Or at least it seems that way on the surface. I don’t think anything is perfectly clear in these matters.

        Pimping, however, is the apex of masculinity. My woman knew she could fuck other guys, and knowing that made her all the more attracted to me. It was like the ultimate dismissive game. I accepted her for having those desires and it put her under my spell. She became very submissive.


      • > “NO man with a gram of masculine fortitude” As I’ve been trying to warn YaReally et al, swingers clubs are a cover for Uber-Alphas to slide it in their wingmen.


      • Like

      • ‘When a gunnery sergeant tells you to take off your clothes, you better take off your clothes’: The male victims of military rape tell their heartbreaking stories


      • From what I can tell, ever since at least Obama’s immaculation [if not earlier], the USDoD has become one giant sex club [with e.g. open solicitations on all the local Craigslists].


      • “My woman knew she could fuck other guys”

        The harem gets eunuchs is the golden standard of mack.

        You’re only a step up from cuckfag if you’re willing to claim the bitch as “my woman” and bat cleanup when she gets back from the club.


      • “NO man with a gram of masculine fortitude would knowingly accept his main girl…receiving alternative cawk on the regular.


        i wouldn’t even want a side girl doing it. a girl without a commitment from a guy is going to be sleeping with other men. no doubt. but i don’t want to think about it or know about it.

        i could say that i wouldn’t care but if i did know about it, i’d be done.i wouldn’t be able to stop thinking of her with another guy’s dick so i wouldn’t want her anymore. maybe i’ve got a problem but that’s how it is for me. i’m not good at sharing. never have been.


      • Mate guarding is hovering over your girl on the subway because you think some alpha is going to make a move. What you’re describing, straw, is cuckolderly.

        Things are actually perfectly clear when you have a few ounces of self respect, which many men these days completely lack.


      • if a girl strayed, she was out. Gone. I don’t accept hoez banging other dudes. Besides it bein yucky it’s just not safe.

        There’ve been a few who had bfs that I was delivering the big Os on the side to just because I was inclined and their bfs often knew. But I don’t wear condoms and I cannot have too much risk that hoez are swinging around.

        If she was considered “my” girl, hell no she’s not getting other dick


      • You actually have it exactly backward. Mate guarding and insecurity is for the weak.

        Throwing in a bit of manosphere terminology in order to prop up a weak point, haven’t see THAT before. For extra spice, why not a link to the “Captain Obvious” side at TV Tropes, like know-no-culture teens like to do in order to pretend they have a link that is backing them?

        Pimping, however, is the apex of masculinity. My woman knew she could fuck other guys, and knowing that made her all the more attracted to me.

        That actually made me laugh out loud! 😀

        My, that’s a disturbed mind. Taking pride in being a “pimp”. That’s the result of the lemmings gulping down all things Black anti-culture served up by Murray Rothstein’s MTV and its imitators.

        No, having “your woman” (yo, nigga!) spread her legs for other men is not … NOT … the “apex of masculinity”. No matter how much you fool yourself.

        And you’re not “pimping” by the way unless she is getting paid and she gave you the money. Though maybe she did.


      • on September 18, 2014 at 6:50 am haunted trilobite

        ‘pimping’ is extracting cash from a worthless whore until her pussy is worn out , and stabbing any trick who tries to fuck her without paying. Not your happy family game. Sorry to break it to you but real pimps don’t even fuck


      • “My woman knew she could fuck other guys”

        and she and everyone here knows you’d still lick her nasty cooz.


      • on September 18, 2014 at 11:50 am ALPHAbetacal Order

        What a spastic syllogism mateguard = beta -> indifference to how POZZED your sex partners are = alpha is.This is PUAgoon level thinking catalyzed by the Sperg.


      • Major ISIS Leader Recruits Eleven Muslim Men, And Sodomizes […] Them In Homosexual Islamic Ritual


    • I used to work for a financial institution where these activities were quite common among a clique of young, attractive married couples. But then again, this is Southern California.


      • > “a financial institution” Budding young Masters of the Universe. Those of you in isolated bubbles of sanity and normalcy and tradition have no idea how Dark the Nihilism has become amongst the Uber-Elite.


      • Or even just the would-be Uber Elite. What always sent a chill down my spine was 18/19/20-y.o. undergrads who were already hell-bent on pursuing a life of pure Evil. Their souls already hopelessly corrupted at such a young age.


    • From what I have been told, there are swinger parties only accessible to attractive accomplished couples.

      Hello, little brony.

      Those swinger parties “for the attractive”, yes, I saw that on a documentary. The attractive party was still full of unattractive forty-somethings. The difference is in degree, with the lower degree being the absolute dreg.


    • That’s more accurate. To begin with an “open” relationship, by definition, has nothing to do with the “swingers” scene. It’s just two people who have lovers and flings on the side and are straightforward about it. Nothing necessarily sordid or ugly (though it can certainly get that way). History shows us that such relationships/marriages CAN last, though in the olden days it was pretty much accepted that Alpha MEN were all but expected to keep mistresses. There have always been couples that casually fooled around but pretended otherwise in public. Do they always break up eventually? Do they “grow out of it?” Has anyone seriously studied the phenomenon? Is it even possible? Like the politicized children of gays studies, self-selecting respondents will not do.

      As for swinging and suchlike, I have certainly read of swinger clubs/parties exclusively for the young & purty.


      • I recall reading that Jeri Ryan (7 of 9 on Star Trek Voyager) had an ex-husband who used to take her to swinger events, that was part of the reason for their breakup.
        Hard to imagine such a high value woman going along with that kind of thing.


      • Yeah, she balked. He actually got her inside one of those places and she was appalled by the seediness & squalor. I think it was in Paris. Very much the Houellebecq scene.

        The details were contained in the sealed custody documents of their 1999 divorce and remained private until 2004 when her ex, Jack Ryan, ran for US Senator for Illinois against a little known state pol named Obama. Under pressure the custody agreement was unsealed and the lurid details came out, immediately sinking his campaign. He withdrew and the Repubs, in their infinite wisdom, put up another black man to run against Obama -Alan Keyes- who got smoked 70/30.

        Is it a stretch to say we have our current Prez because alpha Jack Ryan
        couldn’t rein in his more extreme sexual impulses?


  7. This post was actually stomach turning.


    • Agree. is this acceptable to some “men?” Your main bitch, the girl yotake on dates, cuddle with or hold hands with even..the girl who could be the moterh of your kids, or god forbid..already is. Is also simultaneously, with your knowledge even, and your BLESSING, getting DP’d by 2 dudes..ass to mouth with some goth retard, swapping.



      • All cults have levels of indoctrination. The men at this level are at the level of left-wing dogma roughly equal to a suicide bomber.


      • Taking on dates? Cuddling with? Holding hands with?

        I think we found the problem.


      • Taking on dates? Cuddling with? Holding hands with?

        I think we found the problem.

        God forbid a man and a woman actually like spending time with each other. You’ll let your main suck another guys dick but cuddling is beta…


      • Main bitch? Taking on walks? Cuddling? Holding hands with?

        Save that shit for a dog.


      • on September 17, 2014 at 4:23 pm gunslingergregi

        I refuse to have animals cause I want all the attention

        ”””””””God forbid a man and a woman actually like spending time with each other. ”””””””

        yea really if it is only dick in hole might as well jack off


      • If she’s someone you could see wifing up or having children with someday…ya know, the whole point of a LTR in the first place…then no holding hands, dating and cuddling isn’t absurd.

        I stand by my previous’s vile to think there are “men” out there who accept this lifestyle.


      • “yea really if it is only dick in hole might as well jack off”

        exactly. too many guys on here are all messed up. with all the bashing they do on guys who actually enjoy spending time with women, it makes you wonder why they even bother with girls at all.


      • dick in hole > jacking off


      • on September 19, 2014 at 1:26 pm gunslingergregi

        Laguna Beach Fogey

        dick in hole > jacking off

        well maybe yea but I mean for ltr he he he


  8. on September 17, 2014 at 3:27 pm gunslingergregi

    I like the one way type
    its not to bad till the bitch is gone

    seems like lot of the open is the girlfriend having a girlfriend on side lives with boyfriend
    cause they saw it on tv or some shit

    I don’t how I can get tired of my chick and push her to leave
    but then miss her like fucking maniac
    even I can logically remember what I was feeling like when I knew it was time for her to go

    even though the logical say yea
    something else says this hurts


  9. I cannot fathom cuddling up to a female on a thursday evening with full she just gargled some other dude’s fucking DNA earlier that afternoon.

    I don’t give a shit what some retard free-love lib’s not “open minded.” so much as it is an exploitation of what some worthless omega faglin will put up with.


    • on September 17, 2014 at 3:47 pm gunslingergregi

      well if your a drug addict and she is bringing back drugs
      it prob easier to deal with


    • Omegas will attempt to justify their pathetic life any way they can. Alpha males would never share women, harem guards were castrated.


      • “Omegas will attempt to justify their pathetic life any way they can. Alpha males would never share women”



      • > “Alpha males would never share women” Unless the ostensible Alphas in question are actually closeted SODOMITES.


      • You guys who have never run with the Uber-Elite have no earthly idea how many of these ostensibly happily married high society men are secretly sodomizing every handsome young boy they can get their hands on.


      • I don’t know about that specific category of fucked up people but I know that as I get older and wiser, I constantly have to revise my estimate of how many people are fucked up.

        And by fucked I mean everything that is not normal from being a crack addict to men fucking young boys to covering your entire body with ugly tattoos to having sex with animals to people being very violent and having criminal behaviors to people working for charities taking the money for themselves to white liberals full of guilt such as those in Rotherham who cause a lot evil but sleep at night with a good conscience convinced they are good people etc etc

        When I was a teenager I thought maybe 15 % of people are fucked up

        then in my twenties after having met a lot of fucked up people and having heard how many fucked up people they knew I revised to 30 %

        I am now 54 and with what I know now, I would say MOST people are fucked up

        about 70% of males are fucked up in some way and about 90% of females are fucked up in some way.

        I know that sounds crazy but that is really what I conclude after 54 years on this planet and having met hundreds if not thousands of humans, having heard their stories and those they told me of the people they know, and having read up to 16 hours a day on many different topics for the last 18 years

        most humans are really fucked up.

        What I know now I would not have believed it when I was 16 years old.

        humans are very fucked up.


      • yeah…if the pack alpha wolf catches a lower class wolf with ANY of his hoez, he will attack that shit straight away. It’s just not tolerated.


      • on September 18, 2014 at 1:15 pm haunted trilobite

        Human nature is being overwhelmed by other forces. The soothsayers and prophecies predicted it would be so during theese times @ CF


    • I once ate a chick out after two couples had invited me and this other dude home from a swinger’s club. Both chicks were hot, but one particularly so, and without realizing it, I ate her out after the other guy they invited home filled her with a fresh load. I was somewhat put off by her taste, more so once I figured it out, and would never do that again knowingly, but all in all, the chick was SO hot, well…


      • No woman is hot enough to endure that kind of humiliation.


      • on September 18, 2014 at 12:38 am Cucks on the loose

        WTF did I just read? Are u insane? and u rationalize it with “the chick was SO hot”??

        B/w that Straw character and u, this is a new low for the chateau..


      • I for one appreciate this kind of honesty, I think it’s important to remember that we are all a work in progress and have all probably had questionable experiences, and if we are here at the chateau we are at the very least aware of that and at best intentionally moving in the right direction. Pretending to never make mistakes is unrealistic. One’s that don’t have a good story or two under their belt might need to get out in the field more.


      • Yuck. That seems very cuckoldish, even if it’s not your girl.


    • What is the difference, she drained other guys in the past anyway. That cum was all over her, just like yours is now. Time is what makes it easier on your psyche?


  10. What about Neil Gaimain and Amanda Palmer? How does their open relationship differ from those of non-famous people? I imagine he is deluged with offers from goth girls. As for her, I dunno. She looks like a due.

    From Amanda Palmer’s recent Reddit AMA:

    [quote]you know, it changes as we change. funny enough i’ve found that over the years, i actually get PICKIER about neil’s choice of partners…but mostly because i now know enough about him to know what all his kinks and his girl-blindspots are….and sometimes knowing that can drive a person crazy.
    our number one rule remains total disclosure and no drama-games. and when those rules get cracked or pushed, things get ugly.

    we ask each other details if we want to know. we try to give each other space to be with other people without prying too much, but there are no secrets allowed. if asked, you gotta answer truthfully.

    as far as meeting people… we generally wind up meeting each other’s lovers a matter of general nice-etiquette, but it doesn’t always happen due to one of us putting up the “you know what? i don’t wanna” hand or geography just getting in the way.

    the hardest thing about being in an open marriage is, at the end of the day, dealing with everybody else’s feelings and needs. all lovers are people with their own sets of hopes and dreams and (sometimes) delusions. managing all of that is enough work in one relationship, and any additional person you add – there you go, more time, more energy. so a lot of it is, for me, a mathematical equation. as sad as that sounds. going to bed with someone can often come down to: do actually have time for this in my life? it’s why i found/find myself almost never sleeping with people on tour, even though there are people everywhere. i’m too BUSY. and TIRED. mostly on tour i just want my neck rubbed.

    anyway. i hope that helps you a little. being in an open relationship is hard work. both people gotta wanna do the work, be honest, deal with the messiness. it’s not for everybody.[/quote]


    • Guarantee: If he’s banging a younger, hotter, nicer girl she will REALLY get mad.

      Girls don’t care much until they are bested and know it.


      • When my man bangs younger, hotter, nicer girls… I high five him. He’s on cloud nine for weeks and bangs me hard for months. His libido shoots thru the roof. I’m not bad looking myself, but the rush a man gets from fucking someone new… I get to benefit from it.


  11. PA is begging to know where he can sign up for one…so he and Piggy can finally consummate their love with David Brooks and El-Kneegro-in-Chief.



  12. on September 17, 2014 at 3:51 pm gunslingergregi

    I tried the make money off my bitches ass
    but yea walkin in the hotel naaa
    I just wanted to smash her face in so I left


  13. Lasch in “Cultural of Narcissism” discusses in depth in the context of the Swinging Seventies when this concept was experimented with and then discarded. The movie “Ice Storm” sets 70’s swinging parties in posh New Canaan, CT (they don’t do these nowadays there!). This giant experiment was a giant flop. “Swinging” is a very bad idea, indeed! Open marriages open the gates of Hades.

    Basically, these are empty souls. Sane women WANT an emotional connection and wifeswapping just induces borderline. Narcissists cannot provide an emotional connection. Chaos ensues.

    Even mild bi hookups in a threesome lite do no favors to the female psyche. The big unstated thing… promiscuity (or heavy temptation to promiscuity working a trading desk at Morgan Stanley or Tinder) induces borderline in ladies. No surprise then that Cultural Maxists love to endorse these.

    Pretty women aren’t meant for promiscuity. This is why prostitutes are expensive even after 50 years of the culture screaming at women that they are just like men and strippers make 300k (cash) when they just have to rub strange men.


  14. Shrugs. My honest preference is for openly polygamous relationships. I like when we both can enjoy a rotating harem of lovely young women.


    • on September 18, 2014 at 12:45 am Cucks on the loose

      Ur expanding posterior is surely gonna attract a harem of lovely young women… to go along with that ‘alpha’ u be waiting for…

      we need a giant hamster running into a shredder for this one..


    • But you’re also a rather cold and damaged soul. I don’t really think you’re capable of loving someone.


  15. I won’t provide the link because of the shitty filter but I remember reading about this in an article you can find by typing “faith, hope, and singularity” in to google, It is basically about polyamory but with a tranny and some other mutants heavily skewed in gender ratio. I can’t explain it, I suppose if you are of the utilitarian mindset then something is better than nothing. There really ought to be a different greek letter for the celibate who would not take part in such an abomination.


  16. Having run across this in the past I agree with Heartiste’s take on it. It’s usually “open” for the girl, not the guy(s) involved.

    It’s an “interesting” feeling when you are the one fucking the girl every which way in her marital bed while her hubby has been relegated to the living room couch. For two weeks. And you’re being shown around town and being taken out to eat and the like, all expenses paid.

    It was a memorable holiday. I was the third and temporary guy (she had two in her “open marriage”). And nah, she wasn’t that good-looking on the whole – plus being a horse-mad nutjob.


  17. I’m very interested in trying to understand the end game of our degenerate Western culture.

    That’s why, in addition to reading CH, I’ve extensively pored over the writings of futurists and hte tomes of seers such as Nostradamus.. Years have gone by as I gazed into my Magic 8-Ball and watched Idiocracy hundreds of times, all to no avail. Even Orson Welles’ Future Shock failed to satisfy my thirst for knowledge.

    But then I found it. The Holy Grail from the 1980s still exists on YouTube. You Cultural Marxists from the Frankfurt School can no longer supress this truth!


  18. lol…

    No one wants the type of oLTR CH is describing. There are communities and shit for that style (swinger parties and all) but from what I’ve seen generally in those relationships either the man is low value or the woman AND man are low value. They pride themselves weirdly on the whole thing because it’s like saying “we know we’re unattractive but look how much people want to fuck us and look at this unique thing we’re doing outside of society’s norms that we hope makes up for our blatant lack of value”. It’s the same reason most of the BDSM community that goes to clubs for it aren’t all sexy ppl, they’re like 90% a bunch of fatass gross people lol I suspect a lot of the guys have some level of homosexuality/cuckolding in them to get off on hearing all the details etc. (hi, Shane!) Most of us don’t want that lol

    So toss all that shit out from the start. This article is basically like looking at a McDonald’s menu and saying “ordering food from restaraunts is gross and unhealthy.”

    I deal with this shit all the time when I talk to guys IRL about oLTRs. The first thing they ALL say is “I dunno man, I don’t think I could handle knowing my girl is sucking like 12 dicks a weekend with guys blowing their load all over her face and then she kisses me”. Because they only meet the same type of people CH has met who embrace that kind of thing, so they think that’s what an oLTR is. A lot of that crap that’s out in society with all the labels and shit is the same as martial arts schools that teach you a bunch of “monkey fist 3-finger back-stance” poses. It’s stupid impractical shit. I don’t even really know what the definitions of polyamory and polygamy and polygnous mean…because none of that shit is actually important to making this stuff work. Same way you don’t need the monkey fist back-stance in a fight, you just need to know how to throw a fucking punch right…all that swingers club shit is for a weird sub-group of people that none of us want to be.

    Why haven’t people like CH met a bunch of the better types of oLTRs? Because to make an oLTR work you have to be fucking DISCREET. You don’t advertise it all over the fucking place because it triggers the girl’s ASD and a ton of social pressure and it blows it up. That’s why those people join those little communities, so they can meet people who won’t judge them but it spirals from there because the guys are too pussy to lay down rules and the girls go along with what the other girls do. This is also why Gene Simmons fucked his oLTR up, ’cause he did a reality show and basically rubbed it in everyone’s face and then when the vid of him with a chick hit the press it’s too much social pressure and ASD and his chick had to whip him into marrying her. Dude fucked himself over.

    Anyway, so what guys really want are either:

    1) a one-sided oLTR where they get to fuck as many women as they want and not have to hide anything, and their girl participates in 3-somes with those girls and them, and their girl doesn’t fuck anyone else, only them.

    Or if they can’t pull that off but still REALLY want the freedom to bang whoever they want and get stuck having to have a two-sided oLTR, then they want:

    2) a two-sided oLTR where they get to fuck sa many women as they want but need to be relatively discreet and their girl is allowed to bang other dudes but they don’t want to hear any of the details and there are a bunch of rules established to keep those guys from being a threat, and she has to take a bath in a pool of disinfectant for like a week after. lol

    Ironically, the only real difference between the two is the guy’s mindset and belief in his own value. Most guys WANT #1 but they’re too chickenshit to try it and have too much scarcity being afraid to lose the girl and they don’t believe they can pull it off. Most of the guys who end up in #2 COULD’VE had #1 if they had believed in their worth and felt a little bit more “entitled” (aka having a healthy understanding of just how much value they really bring to the table).

    I’ve covered how to set them up and the mindsets you need and shit a bunch before:

    But here’s the lowdown again of how oLTRs work and why one-sided oLTRs don’t work the way most people think (ie – the girls don’t go out and suck 400 dicks and come home covered in jizz). It’s the exact same concept behind why “girls like players” except extrapolated to way higher stakes:

    – Hypergamy = women want the highest value male she thinks she can obtain, any male who’s lower value than that man is the same as a 400lbs girl is to us

    – High-value male = a guy who’s attractive to a lot of women

    – oLTR = both people can theoretically bang whoever they’re attracted to

    Put that formula together and what do you get? Women end up only wanting to fuck their man (Hypergamy), and being cool with him fucking other women (this reinforces that he’s a high-value male because it shows that he’s attractive to a lot of women, so she’s actually MORE attracted to you because you’re confirming how high-value you are), because other men are literally less attractive to them (equivalent to 400lbs girls).

    If I put you in a relationship with a 10/10, your dream hottie, and I told you can fuck ANY fat chick you want. ANY of them. You can fuck 400 of them in a weekend if you want, as long as they’re at least 300lbs each. Are you going to go fuck a bunch of them? No. You’re going to wait for that 10/10 to put out and keep trying to win her over because those other girls repulse you.

    IT’S EXACTLY THE SAME THING. lol women feel exactly the same repulsion you would feel ditching your 10/10 for a 300lbs fatty, if they ditched their 10/10 man for any man of lower value. It is a socially conditioned limiting belief and cognitive dissonance that allows men to believe in Hypergamy and understand my 300lbs fat girls example but not accept that it works the same way in reverse.

    The biggest reason men can’t pull this off and either won’t try it or will fuck it up, is that they’re still socially conditioned to believe that the rich outgoing 6’4″ handsome doctor is higher value than them. They think this because they’re looking at “what does society value? (looks money etc.)” and not “what do women value? (the emotions you make them feel)”.

    So in the back of their heads they think “well, sure, an oLTR would be nice…and ya I get this whole “Hypergamy” thing, but like, but like, say she went to her office party and her BOSS his on her…and he’s a good looking guy and he’s rich!! AND I told her she COULD bang him!!! So she’s going to fuck him and then bang him every day and I’ll have to taste his boss-jizz when I kiss her OMG OMG OMG”

    …does that sound like the headspace of a guy who TRULY believes he’s a 10/10? And TRULY (even delusionally) believes he’s higher-value than every other man in the world?

    No. That’s the headspace of a guy who’s girl will end up fucking her boss. Because it’ll be in his subcommunications that he views other men as a threat.

    Why does that affect things? Because another pickup rule we all understand is “what you feel, she feels”. If you feel like your opener is lame, so will she. If you feel like your gay fuzzy hat is the coolest thing in the world, so will she. Women ping off their environment to know how to feel. So she’s pinging off you to know whether her boss (or any other men she may meet in her life) are higher value than you or not.

    Ask that homeless pickup guy in that video someone linked whether other guys are more attractive to women than him and he’ll lol in your face. He sleeps on the street but he’s convinced himself beyond delusion that he’s attractive as fuck and women want to fuck him. Naturals have a delusional sense of their high-value. Every Natural who’s legit good with women can acknowledge that other men can be attractive or cool, but in the back of their heads they add “…but I’M more attractive/cool lol”

    Literally, in my delusional mind, if George Clooney and Brad Pitt in their prime walked into the room and hit on my girl it would be funny because they’re cool guys but lol seriously guys come on now, how do you expect to take my girl, I’m cooler than you guys and I fuck her better than you could lol Those are the actual thought-loops going through my head. Even if she’s FLIRTING with them, it’s a lol to me because I know they couldn’t actually get her (objectively maybe they could, but in my mind they can’t, and she’s pinging off me to know whether they can or not). Hell, in my mind it’s better to LET her flirt with them a bit because then they’ll fuck up and she’ll see they aren’t the perfect flawless guys she envisioned in her head when they fail one of her shit-tests and I’ll pick her up over my shoulder and take her home to bang her proper (with punishment for flirting of course).

    Most guys who get into pickup come from a lifetime of shitty social conditioning that tells them they’re not good enough and they should compare themselves based on exteneral shit like looks and money to other men to determine their value. So this haunts most guys the rest of their life. Because they believe it, their girls believe it.

    The reason these oLTRs fail is because the guy either goes into them feeling insecure instead of delusionally confident, or because they started out as the highest-value guy when they initiated the oLTR but over time they let themselves fall off-purpose and let themselves go and started feeling less attractive…Bob at the office got a new Ferrari and they feel insecure that they don’t have one. Their wife gets hit on at the bar by some good-looking dude and they look at him with puppy-dog eyes scared that he might be able to bang her. They stop taking care of their health or get stuck in a shitty job they hate that eats away at their soul and they start crying to their woman all the time about how hard life is when they aren’t laying on the couch watching reality TV.

    They BECOME lower-value…and once they become lower-value, and start seeing other guys as higher-value, now their girl sees those guys as higher-value too, so the oLTR becomes a cuckold situation because they can’t get girls anymore and they’ve turned into the equivalent of a 400lbs girl to their girls while her boss looks like the badass alpha go-getter she should be fucking.

    So if you’re going to do an oLTR, you have to make it a rule in your life, and swear to yourself, that you will ALWAYS be on your purpose and working toward self-improvement and being your best self. You don’t get to slack off and become Joe up the street sitting around with his loser buddies smoking pot and playing poker and scarfing down unhealthy shit to numb the pain of the dead-end jobs they hate but got stuck in because they have no ambition, while complaining to his buddies about how his wife’s boss keeps hitting on her. That guy’s oLTR girl will go suck 12 dicks that weekend.

    You don’t get the luxury of letting yourself become low-value. You can for very small periods, if she’s been with you for a while, but you don’t get to dwell. If something bad happens, you feel bad for yourself for a few days and then you get back on the horse and push through and succeed and become better than you were.

    The funny part is that you should want that for yourself in GENERAL. Just as a man, you should WANT to always be improving yourself and be on your purpose and working toward solidifying your internals and doing exciting things with your life instead of watching reality TV (which is basically watching OTHER people do BARELY more interesting things with their life, is there any activity LOWER value than that?? jesus…at least cheering for a sports team you’re cheering for athletes who are tearing shit up, but when you’re watching fucking Real World, you are watching losers being slightly less lame than people who watch their show).

    So to summarize:

    One-sided oLTR is totally possible. But you have to 1) have a strong frame that it’s not selfish and it’s the natural way things should work, 2) always strive to be high-value, 3) BELIEVE that you’re high-value, and 4) it’s a lot easier to maintain an oLTR than it is to turn a relationship INTO an oLTR (that means hit the ground running with it when you meet her, don’t wait till you two are in a dead bedroom marriage to try it).

    I’m legit considering writing a book on the topic because I think men need to understand that this is an option and how to execute it, but I’m still young and working out the kinks in my approach to it, and Blackdragon already wrote some and that dude knows his shit so I highly recommend his books and reading his forum posts around the net. He’s the guy who broke down the Soft Next rules I always link to:

    I’m helping coach a buddy into an oLTR right now ’cause he wants to keep banging girls while settling with his girl ’cause she’s quality and he wants kids but he’s horny and doesn’t want to fully settle yet, so I’ve had to discuss this shit a bunch recently. His biggest problem is that he’s still viewing other men as high-value (he’s a minority race so he’s been brought up to view himself as lower value that white ppl (hi racists! His LTR is a white chick too lol)) and that mindset is exactly what’s going to tank him, so we’re working on his internal confidence right now doing stuff like introducing hot girls to good-looking dudes at the bar to watch the guys crash and burn and putting him into mixed sets to take the girls etc. so he gets over the idea that these guys are all super pimps just ’cause they have socially approved external attributes lol I told him not to pitch the oLTR for a while, ’cause he’s also moving around for work right now and he needs to wait till he knows he’s going to be settled in an area with lots of pussy…you can’t have an oLTR when you live out in the suburbs and work 100 hour weeks not interacting with women, ’cause you can’t maintain your skills with women (which makes your subcomms worse and makes it harder to maintain your internal confidence that you can get women). Gotta’ be in a position where you’ll be able to flirt with other girls regularly and feel like you could get them.


    • My favorite of my mLTRs wants to lay down rules (like Blackdragon said would happen in his book). I don’t want any rules, like I want to be able to fall in love with other girls if I want or whatever, but I’m not sure how make my frame strong enough to get past this. I’ve been kicking the can down the road but at some point drama might ensue. Any advice? Blackdragon’s book is pretty light on what to do when she comes back with her demands


      • Drama = Soft Next. Your way or the highway, if she has a problem with it she’s free to leave and you’re cool with losing her because you have abundance. That’s the best way to handle it, really. Check my archive or Blackdragon’s stuff for how to properly Soft Next.

        But I’m not totally opposed to rules. Keep in mind, because any guy reading this is going “LOL U MORAN U THINK SHE WONT BREAK TEH RULES??? LOLOL”, that ya obviously she might break the rules…but knowing there ARE rules can be what swings her back off the edge of the fence if they trigger her ASD at the last second and make her put up just a bit more LMR than the guy knows how to deal with because she feels guilty.

        But say you end up in an oLTR where she wants to be allowed to go play around too and you don’t see a way out of it because you want your own free reign on pussy and don’t want to lose her, but she’s pushing for rules and you don’t want to go the Soft Next route.

        In that scenario, consider that you can intelligently craft the rules to your advantage. Stick this one out, it’s worth it I swear…I’ve been working with my buddy I’m coaching on this because that’s his scenario lol:

        What do we know leads to long-term attraction? Well, Comfort and Rapport obviously…so Time is a factor in getting those. Also we know oxytocin is released during sex and bonds people, so having sex with the same person mutliple times, especially in a short time-frame, complete with cuddling/dates/texting/etc is basically allowing oxytocin to pile up and build long-term attraction. And what leads to the intial Attraction in the first place, stuff like Social Proof (the guy being high-value in her social circle) and familiarity…and how do MOST guys pick up girls? Do they do it through Cold Approach? Fuck no, it’s too hard and scary…they do it through social circle game. They bang chicks they’ve known for a bit.

        So there’s a shitload of the factors that would make a girl “fall in love” with a dude. For a guy it’s different, we don’t give a shit who she is or where she came from: Is she hot? Yes? Then we want to fuck her. And if we already have a Primary girl at home then we probably don’t care if we fuck this other girl more than a few times here and there because we’re looking for other girls and we don’t want them to fall in love with us and complicate our lives.

        So compare those two mindsets, and then imagine what would happen if the rules for your oLTR that you and your girl agree upon involve stuff like this:

        1) No sex with people we already know or people in our social circles…because we don’t want them to judge us or judge how solid our relationship is. I don’t want to go to a bar and have some guy rubbing in my face when he’s drunk that he had sex with you, and you wouldn’t want to run into a girl I’ve had sex with and have her being catty with you. So only new people that we don’t know.

        2) No dating. Only sex. No daily texting, no romantic dinners and movies and cuddling under the stars together all night. If we want to do that stuff, we have eachother for that because we should always be more important to eachother than other people are to us. No forming a deep relationship, this is for sex only, neither of us want to lose eachother to some random. You wouldn’t want me to be texting sweet things to some other girl all day and building a relationship with her that you have to compete with.

        3) Your partner ALWAYS comes first. No cancelling plans with eachother for someone else and if we need something, we tell the other person sorry we can’t make it something came up. There’s no putting randoms ahead of eachother because we are eachother’s priority. You wouldn’t want me to cancel on our dinner plans to go hook up with some chick from the bar.

        4) We have to tell the other person we’re in a relationship. They have to know that they’re not dealing with a single person, because we want them to understand that our partner comes first and not to try to break us up and force us to deal with a bunch of drama. You wouldn’t want some girl trying to take me from you.

        5) No seeing the same person more than once every 2 weeks maximum. No multiple nights in a row or sleepovers or 3x a week hooking up. Your partner should be your primary and if you need sex from other people THAT often then clearly there’s something wrong with the relationship and maybe we should consider ending it entirely. This isn’t a second relationship, this is someone to play with on the side now and then for variety.

        So if you take these rules and break them down, who exactly can she bang? She can bang a guy she doesn’t know (already not very attractive to her, compared to guys she’s known in her social circle for a while who she knows have high-value), who cold approaches her (which is basically NO guys except some sloppy drunk bar losers now and then with shitty game that’ll just make her miss you more), who plows through knowing she has a boyfriend (most guys will be scared off by this, plus her telling them will help trigger her own ASD/guilt), plus because she can’t go on dinner dates and shit which is where normal guys build all their Attraction most guys won’t be able to go from “hello” to “let’s fuck” without that middle piece because most guys aren’t learning to do that like we are so you’re neutering his game too…and EVEN if she does find a guy to bang, she’s not going to bang him enough to build deep long-term attraction and he’s going to find her schedule/rules inconvenient and probably give up quick.

        So while those rules SOUND decent to her during the discussion, because you phrase everything as how she could lose you if you don’t follow those rules, they actually severely limit her options to basically either unappealing/unattractive options or options that are phenomenally rare for her to encounter.

        But how do those rules affect YOU? You don’t technically have to follow them because whatever, but say you want to be a noble dude and stick to your word or maybe you’re still new enough that you might feel guilty etc., then let’s look at how do these rules really limit you? They DO restrain you a little, which is why I’m not a fan of this approach, but what real restraint is there?:

        Do you want to bang girls in your social circle anyway? Nah, they’ve probably banged your buddies or would create too much drama, and you’re a cool social guy who meets new girls and macks on them anyway off cold approach, so you can go find new girls you don’t know just like you’ve been doing. So Rule 1 doesn’t affect you. Do you want to date and go to romantic dinners and lay under the stars with some super casual one night stand or casual fuckbuddy? No, eff all that, you already have a GF to get that shit from and don’t want to blow your money, and don’t HAVE to do any of that to get laid, so Rule 2 doesn’t affect you. Rule 3 might lose you a date or two, but 90% of the time the girl you flake on just gets more attracted because you blew her off esp blowing her off for another woman, so Rule 3 doesn’t affect you. Is telling a girl you have a girlfriend REALLY going to discourage most girls? Ask any guy who wears a wedding ring to a bar lol This is the one where you COULD lose some girls at first until you learn how to hold your frame that it’s no big deal and even casually drop that you have an “open thing” where you’re allowed to play on your own time but no falling in love with you bla bla push/pull and you can do this when you first meet them or right before you have sex when she’s too turned on to not want to still bang you etc. So this one might blow you out at first as you learn to calibrate, but down the road Rule 4 isn’t going to affect you at all. And finally you don’t want to see girls every damn night ’cause you’re a guy with shit to do and a Primary GF already, and you don’t want these girls to fall in love with you, so Rule 5 doesn’t affect you either.

        So with these rules who CAN you still bang? You can pick up random girls at the bar or online, have some causal fun with them, and toss them back to replace them with more…except oh wait, that’s what you’ve been doing ANYWAY. lol

        So with some strategic thinking and understanding how game works, you can create rules that limit her entirely and leave you free to pretty much do as you please, while she still feels like she has open choice on her end (because she doesn’t understand how attraction works the way we do).

        Now this isn’t the best approach, because once you verbalize rules and everything you’re verbalizing the whole thing a lot more and the less you openly address it the better…plus even giving her rules kind of implies that you’re worried another man might win her over which automatically means you view other men as a threat so it’s already kind of shooting yourself in the foot a bit…and if you choose to actually stand by the rules yourself you do limit yourself slightly compared to having total free reign.

        And in your particular situation, you want to be free to fall in love and all that feel-good shit, so you may have to tweak things or break/bend the rules on your end to justify going on romantic dates with girls and all.

        But in your particular situ, where the girl needs rules, and you’re stuck verbalizing the whole thing…this is a decent way of keeping control.

        If she breaks the rules, she breaks the rules, you can’t stop her from doing that…but the good part about rules is that you can punish her for breaking them. She might sext with a guy while you’re cuddled up in bed one night, breaking the rules, but if you catch her you can immediately HARDCORE Soft Next her (exactly how Blackdragon explains to do it) for like a month as punishment and be pretty much guaranteed that when you allow her back into your life she will never break the rules again.


      • Thanks yareally, I appreciate the help

        Also, I have an extremely high ASD girl I want to turn into an mLTR. I cavemaned her for the lay on first meet, she’s 24 and claims she had only banged two guys before in her life.

        Every time she comes over I have to caveman through a shitload of LMR to get the lay, this shit is ridiculous but she keeps coming over so she obviously likes it. She claims she ‘wants to be friends first’, and that her experience before was of being friends with a guy in a friend group for a while before dating.

        She acts like a Disney good girl, dresses and acts very conservatively.

        This shit is bizarre, what do?


      • @kant I’m in a similar situation with a 26 year old theatre student who I just banged.

        She then got weird…hot…then cold. I sent her a ping text. She was all formal about inviting me to her upcoming play where she plays the lead. It’s quite a bit deal.

        Then today I get a weird text: “please feel free to pay the ticket fee to my bank account” and she leaves the number for me to transfer it to.

        I was like Huh??? I thought she was getting me a ticket not making me pay for it. OK. If this is a shit test to provoke an argument or talk nonsense by text I wasn’t taking the bait. Instead of getting all shitty or over-gaming her, I just played it straight with: “How much is it?”

        Her: 144 ( that’s like USD$30 but…4 represents death in Chinese culture. In many cases there is no 4th floor or 14th floor etc in buildings because of this bad luck fear)

        Me: Good thing I’m not superstitious.

        Her: Ha.

        Girls are weird. What they say and what they do is in conflict. You have to determine what exactly they’re trying to communicate but NOT ask “Is everything ok?” I never ask this to girls. If a girl is being passive aggressive or baiting me, I now just shrug is off, play dumb, agree and amplify but DON”T acknowledge her weirdness.

        This requires a complete reframe on my part because I’m so used to “communicating”. As I learned with my crazy ex gf…girls don’t really want to “communicate”…they want to subcommunicate.

        By going overt I’ve fucked it up. Now, there are times when you need to go direct. But ASD? I’d just not talk to her and be busy for a few days or longers and see how it goes. If you think this is too much work, leave it. She’ll come back.

        After this exchange, I met up with my recently acquired “fuck buddy” who is also 26 and just loves coming over and banging my brains out, watching porn and playing with her newly purchased sex toys. She’s a bit chubby but works in high-fashion so is well put together otherwise.

        In other words…I don’t care about ASD, or flakiness or weirdness right now. I just observe it and use the right game tool for the right job.


      • @walawala

        an alpha with 10 girls at home ignores that text and doesnt show up to the show with zero contact or explanation


      • @yareally

        Your reply finally came out of mod, holy shit that’s epic. Thanks so much

        Interestingly the rules you outlined here are EXACTLY the ones she wants to implement, and I said no to.

        I see what you mean, the rules might sound good to her but with her own ASD it’s probably extremely unlikely she’d find a guy who could get around ASD and be alpha enough to bang her.

        Like you said, the issue is I want to be able to date and have feelings and all that stuff, so that’s the only problem. But I might be able to give that up considering the benefits.


      • @ walawala:

        By going overt I’ve fucked it up.

        How did you go overt? By asking her what the price for the ticket was, and saying “Good thing I’m not superstitious”? That just seems normal to me.

        Going overt would have been to tell her that you expected her to get you a free ticket.


      • @Arbiter typo. By going overt I would’ve fucked it up.

        I don’t think I fucked it up in this situation. In the past I have gone overt saying “I thought the ticket was free” or “You could have at least paid for it” etc.

        In some cases I’ve found I have to call out a girl’s shitty behaviours. But it has to be related to the severity of the situation.


      • @YaReally awesome post.


    • on September 18, 2014 at 1:17 am Cucks on the loose

      YaReally bringing it, again. There’s so much good shit in there even from a regular pick up/LTR point of view that most guys would benefit from.

      Try and post more often dude.. helps to focus on the right stuff.. kinda distracting when ZS is blathering on for 20 posts abt who the fuck knows what!


      • @kant
        Huge reply to you in mod about setting rules, watch for it when CH approves. I’m helping a buddy who’s going through a similar situ to you right now.

        @Cucks on the loose
        “Try and post more often dude..”

        Busy getting my shit together financially/career-wise right now so I haven’t been able to write much. Spent most of my 20s and the first bit of my 30s on pickup to the detriment of my finances and health, so now it’s time to get the other parts of my life on track. I haven’t even had time to go out as much because I’m working my ass off so I’m down to like 1 night out every 2-3 weeks right now.

        That’s also why all my posts including this next part I just re-read are just incoherent rants even by my standards lol I haven’t written for a while:

        Some guys would read what I just wrote and say “lololz see YaReally, u dumbass we told you you would have to work at some point and quit being a bum and now u can’t even go out lololz” but it’s like ya, I fuckin’ already knew that lol I always knew I’d have to hyperfocus on career stuff after hyperfocusing on pickup. I just know that you can make money at any point in your life. Guys past 35-40 who settle down have nothing to do *BUT* make money. That’s literally their life every day. But pickup is a lot easier to learn in your 20s than in your 30s.

        So most guys focusing on their career in their 20s work retarded hours at it and either have to fuck an ugly girlfriend (hi, Zuckerberg!) that’s getting fatter by the day and who’s hassling them for ignoring her (and possibly cheating on them because they’re stressed out and Feminism taught them that a GF wants to hear them express their stressed feelings (lol)), till she isn’t putting out anymore. And because the guy doesn’t have the time or skill to go get new girls efficiently or maintain a harem, they’re basically going dry till they’re a success in their 30s (banking on finally becoming a doctor leading to a magic land of pussy…ask all the doctors/lawyers/etc. I know who don’t get laid because they’re still beta at their core how that one worked out) and then they have to play catch-up with their pickup skills (’cause you aren’t going out enough to learn pickup while you’re also working hard on a career) and try to learn pickup in their 30s when going to bars to gather massive reference experiences is more intimidating and on TOP of that they also have to unwire an extra 10 years of shitty wiring/beliefs and make up for 10 years less reference experience with women.

        Doesn’t sound like a real appealing life plan to me, personally…but I’m alright with not being the CEO of a fortune 500 company lol

        Compare that to my situation: I got to bang the fuck out of a ton of girls in my 20s, have a fucking blast, build rock-solid core confidence (which is helping me get shit done in my career) and now that I’m focusing on my career my work day involves putting in retarded hours like the other guy did, but I can have fuckbuddies over to bang on my breaks and they are, of course, MORE attracted and eager to get my attention now that my time is super limited (and I give less fucks if I lose them because it means I can get more work done, so I have total outcome independence which is also more attractive) of them (23yo with fake titties) was literally begging this week to be allowed to bring me food on my break, blow me, and leave so I can get back to work lol And I maintain that harem because I know not to cry & moan about how stressed I am and just tell them I’m handling my shit like a boss instead. And if I need new girls I can shoot out some Tinder texts (I very purposely live near a campus in a major city so Tinder has hotter girls for me than someone living out in some shithole in the burbs) and escalate to a lay without having to go on dates ’cause of my pickup skills, or go out for a night with a buddy and collect a few phone numbers and/or pull a new girl and add her to the harem.

        So I’m basically getting laid a few times a week by girls in their prime and these girls are demanding to come over and bang me with no real time investment on my end (instead of begging a fat drama-filled girlfriend for an unenthusiastic blowjob or going on boring 6 hour dinner/movie dates full of LMR) while I play catch-up working on my career and a year from now when I start to get back on my feet again I can shake my slightly-dusty pickup skills off and get back to chasing pussy but balance it with paying my bills.

        So I dunno, it’s cool if guys choose the first path. That’s the route society told us to take and I mean, that’s how a guy becomes a rich CEO making 6-figures (and possibly ending up paying women to fuck him, ’cause remember he was too busy working to really immerse himself in game enough to learn how to run harems and oLTRs and consistently cold approach and bang women off the first meet and shit)…

        …but personally I’m pretty happy with my choices lol

        Ultimately I think a period of hyperfocus is important when you first find pickup. I don’t necessarily recommend going at it for as long and as hard (lol) as I went at it ’cause you don’t really NEED to to have a satisfying enough sex life, I just happened to enjoy it as a hobby and wanted to take it as far as possible (and I’m still not there yet in my mind, lots of personal pickup goals left to resume chasing when I get my finances handled).

        Like I think it’s good to stay (or get) on track with your career and health at the same time, like Scray hitting the gym as he’s learning pickup is a good idea and you shouldn’t be going into class exhausted from being up all night every day etc…buuuuuuut I would say that if you want to REALLY handle it quickly and get really good at game, it’s okay to let that other shit slide for a few years and hyperfocus on pickup. You can ALWAYS start eating healthier and hitting the gym again, and you can ALWAYS get back to making money, those are slow long-term projects and you have all the time in the world to work on them…but if you go out hardcore you could nail your pickup skillset down in anywhere from 1-5 years depending on how fucked up you were when you started and from then on never really have to worry about sex or relationships or attracting women again while you do your other shit.

        And yes I’m aware this was all me qualifying myself, god I’m so beta lol


      • on September 18, 2014 at 7:30 am haunted trilobite

        Well in fairness, the main tl dr of that article is exactly what ZS says ‘you are the prize’. The part about how a family minded white girl will tolerate a cooze obsessed jungle bunny rings a sharp bell as well.


      • For the young guys – the key to having this life is having some freedom to make real choices in your 20’s instead of having “choices” foisted upon you. You calling the shots in YOUR life = Alpha.

        Step 1 – AVOID DEBT. Debt is completely debilitating and will set you on a path to betadom. You can’t have a solid frame if you are always forced to bow down to your debt. Absent debt, you are free to do as you please, even with limited resources. Avoid college debt like the plague, so you are not forced to take the first shitty career path job that comes along. same thing with car loans… so many guys go out and buy a new car after they take that first shitty job. Now you have two things to pay off every month. For the trifecta of beta serfdom, the mortgage. Your slavery is now complete.

        Step 2 – ACCUMULATE EXPERIENCE. When you are debt free you can focus on LIVING your life instead of paying for it. You are free to take low paying jobs, travel, take risk in entrepreneurial ventures / start ups etc., pursue knowledge for its own sake and of course -focus heavily on game. Some advice – take a job in construction, pay is pretty good, they start early (which won’t be a problem if you are not getting wasted every night) and finish early. There is no take home work, busywork you need to do. It will help develop your alpha traits, especially when you get into a low level supervisory role and need to manage a bunch of fuck ups older than you (not hard to get to if you are decent IQ, show up on time, etc.). Also recommend bartending or service industry. Decent money, flexibility with hours, will set you up for going out after work with a good social circle. Can pick up catering gigs on weekend days etc. Also helps develop Alpha traits and confidence.

        Both of these jobs are extremely portable from place to place.

        Step 3 – An Abundance Mentality NEEDS Abundance. If you live in a population 20k town in the middle of nowhere (no colleges etc.) there are likely no 9’s in the wild, let alone herds. You need to be in a population that is dense with opportunity in order to develop the requisite experience. Hitting on the same white trash 6’s in the local townie bar is not going to get you far. There is a reason the hottest girls in Wisconsin, Minnesota, Indiana etc. move to places like Chicago. Only in places like this can their SMV be fully realized. Stop spinning your wheels and seek out the densest market opportunity you can. Work the logistics once there to be within a short ride or walk from a few good venues. Great game cannot make up for shitty logistics (hey let’s hop on a train for an hour back to my place), but great logistics can make up for sub par game (I live upstairs, come check out the view from the roof).


      • @Sentient
        Solid advice. Young guys should give that a read.

        I would also add that all those experiences a guy spends living life will teach him a lot of shit about self-reliance, problem-solving, social-dynamics, networking, etc. that will benefit him down the road when he DOES decide to take up an actual career. A lot of my friends who are objectively probably smarter than me, fold like a house of cards whenever things don’t go according to plan. The delusional confidence I’ve built up through pickup keeps me going no matter what life throws at me lol


      • Game/social skills also help with your career. I work with a few awkward fucks who will most likely never get promoted even though they’re very good at what they do. Learning outward confidence, belief in yourself, voice control, and smoothness under pressure applies to game and work.


      • @yareally – you do realize you can accelerate your financial gains by monetizing your archive right? Hire a ghostwriter and an editor, publish a pick up/relationship guide. Publish on Amazon. Remain anonymous.

        Authorship is a very scalable business model, upfront time investment but long tail of income. There are lot’s of “between the lines’ aspects of your writing that are missing, tactical stuff that would be highly sought after.

        Give it some thought. Capital is available for this.


    • This. I’ve run two of these worth noting. In my pre-red pill days, running purely on instinct, I managed one with a 18yo HB8 (I’m early 30s) for many months. I even encouraged her to “do whatever” but to her I was so high value that she was exclusive to me for a long time. Because this was pre-red pill, I slowly beta’d myself and eventually she did let one guy kiss her when she was drunk, She called me confused, crying, etc. It did kind of break the spell because it coincided with a lot of other things that were going on. It didn’t last much beyond that for other reasons but I didn’t have YaReally’s excellent advice to lean on.

      Right now I’m running a post-red pill version with a 27yo HB7. I posted before about this one mentioning that I still didn’t have the set up down completely when it started so even though the frame is right, I still gave off too many “boyfriend material” vibes and she fell in love hard. You must understand that this is a girl that has consistently been reminded that I fuck other women (we ran into one of them once with a bit of awkwardness lol). I’ve also done about every single thing I can imagine sexually with her (Ya I did read Sex God Method, My Secret Garden, and saw Squirting 101). She has more than once mused that “it would only be fair / make sense if she saw other people” but she always pulls back and says she’s not interested in doing that and just wants me me me (she vomits her thoughts in real time into the keyboard).

      Anyway, this is now being put to the test in a pretty serious way, so I’m curious to see what happens. I had to soft next her recently for a little too much drama (I don’t make enough effort, she wants to be loved, respected, bla bla). For the next week I got like 7 screens of texts and a couple of missed calls which I ignored. But lo and behold a situation arises (I won’t give the details for her sake but I know it’s legit) where she has to travel to a far away city where she used to live, but also happens to be a place where an ex lives. The day before she is set to get on the plane I come back as if nothing had happened. When she presses for an explanation I give her the “I hated having to do this but I can’t have drama” lines we had a bit of back and forth to the point where I knew she was imagining us together again. The fun part is that it turns out she’s going to be staying with her ex while she is there. I left just enough of a lure to keep me on her mind persistently while she is there, but holding frame strongly and not being beta about it.

      I suspect she will sleep with him because “it doesn’t count” and I think she’s at a point where she will try anything to break herself out of the spell. Not that I really care if she does, because I’m not even sure if I’m interested in pursuing this much more beyond testing some of these concepts. I really enjoy her intellectually and sexually but the drama is tiring and I’m focusing on gaming younger girls now. I will post an update when I learn more. If she does not sleep with him it will be a testament to the power of holding frame and being super high value to a woman, because the situation is otherwise pretty hostile.


    • F Yeah! Welcome back.


    • minorities aren’t taught that they are low value, they are taught the fkin opposite.


  19. Well written, but it made me sick.


  20. on September 17, 2014 at 5:02 pm Lurking Gorilla

    The most succinct explanation for polyandrous couples is: low SMV people mate with other low SMV people; this leads to boredom and frustration; poly is a way to ignite the flagging passions among people who would otherwise quickly be bored to tears with each other, if not outright repelled. Ugly outside, ugly inside. Hence, it’s a good bet that the overwhelming majority of people in these arrangements are more psychologically disturbed and closer to Chinese crested dogs than the average person.


  21. Never trust a person without a chin.


    • on September 17, 2014 at 6:58 pm Hair Slicked Back With Swag So Fresh

      Weak chin, weak willed. Commonly seen in “the fairer sex”, this characteristic may be apparent on fairy men, too.


  22. The photos of the polyamorous triads featured here lend creedence to CH’s generalization:


  23. Everyone I have come across who described themselves as ‘polyamorous’ was a fug weirdo to the max, many of them were also Wiccans, Druids or some other born-again Neo-Pagan religion,, which most of the time seems to translate into ‘gay’.
    Don’t get me wrong, nothing against real Pagans, but these people…well, see 1st paragraph.


    • Ya, this is part of that whole “wanting to make up for being low value by having some out there identity that makes them special” thing. No one but my close buddies knows I do oLTRs. I’m single right now (just running a normal harem) but when I’m in an oLTR none of my girls’ friends have any clue they’re in an oLTR with me. From their point of view they just see a happy monogamous couple, she calls me her boyfriend, I call her my girlfriend, nobody has a clue what’s going on. We aren’t running around calling ourselves polywhatever and spouting a bunch of feel-good bullshit about it.

      It’s between her and I, and my discretion is to keep the judgemental social pressure off her to avoid triggering her ASD. That’s why it works. That’s the key right there.

      Time and time again I’ve run into or seen buddies run into the situation where the girl herself was TOTALLY FINE with being monogamous while her man played the field. 100% okay with it…until word spilled because buddy was a dumbass and bragged about it to a mutual friend in their social circle while drinking etc., and her friends and family found out, and again while SHE was totally fine with it, now all the pressure of “How could he do that to you! What a jerk!” “omg he’s abusing you and you don’t even realize it” “omg don’t you respect yourself??” “wow I could never do that, he’s probably going to leave you soon” etc. comes down from all her nosy-ass friends who judge her.

      And even tho she was TOTALLY FINE with it…NOW she feels like she has to drop a “be monogamous or I can’t do this anymore” ultimatum, to save face and get the social pressure off of her and escape all the judgement she’s facing.

      Like I say, the successful oLTRs (esp the one-sided ones where only the guy fucks other girls and the girl only fucks him or fucks girls with him) are the ones you will never realize are happening.


  24. Approve my shit plz.


    • @YaReally looking forward to reading it.


    • @YaReally – just want to get your insights while you’re around. Your advice re- hyperfocus in your 20s vs 30s is something I wish I realized about 10yrs ago… where the f***k was my mind…
      In any case, I’m now that guy in his mid 30s trying to get it sorted, & your posts keep me going out solo & getting comfortable with discomfort. Left a post for you a few CH posts back (which turned into two identical posts cause I wasn’t patient enough to wait for the mods to approve the 1st one) – regarding building a new social circle heading out solo. Might sound like a stupid question, but in your 30s, what’s your advice on building this? I climb & surf but these guys are mostly coupled up & not much chop for heading out with, & to be honest I don’t want to ‘shit where I eat’ in terms of experimenting with the few girls I meet through these circles. Feel way out of place in clubs, so been hitting bars which actually seem more intimidating cause of the lack of traffic / crowd so if you get blown out it’s sorta like everyone sees it, but can open mixed sets pretty well. Also, what are the downsides you referred to a while back about maintaining a new social circle?
      Would seriously value your insights on this as I’m trying to escape suffocating in the circle of married up couples that is my close circle of friends. Thanks in advance for any advice you can provide.


    • @YaReally – ah, ok… just found the post in your archive on older guy game. Pretty much what I had deducted from heading out solo. Looks like I’m on the right path at least.


    • YR, youre a fucking maniac, but sign off line killed me “…god I’m so beta lol” good shit


  25. “dandered waves of mange”

    I may be at half mast for life thanks to that line.


  26. “Without giving away TMI and triangulated coordinates of secretive Chateau vaults, I have peripherally known a couple of honest-to-goodness swingers. They had a club and a meeting place where bacchanalia would attend under the tacit permission of local authorities. Spouse swapping was on the menu, along with sundry sexually experimental arrangements.”

    This is not “open relationship”. This is swinging.

    Swinging and open are two entirely different things.

    I was in an open relationship and neither of us was promiscuous at all. We didn’t even call what we were doing “open relationship” but rather “radical honesty”.

    We were open and honest about our feelings for other people. In the event that those people felt the same about us, we explained to them the situation and if they were open to it, we formed a relationship with them as a couple.

    I’m not talking threesomes or foursomes here, but expanding one’s circle of genuine affection.

    Sometimes the other relationships didn’t even take on a sexual hue but the “outside person” so to speak fulfilled a need one or both of us was not getting from our primary partner.

    I have to say that’s the best relationship I’ve ever had in my life so far. Not because I had sex with more people, remember our focus wasn’t sex, but because it was the first time that I was able to be 100% honest with a partner and that is a huge burden off the metaphorical shoulder.

    And that honesty bonded us together very deeply.

    There are “open relationships” that do work. Its probably rare, but that’s only because so many couples approach it as “swinging” or “bacchanalia”.

    Swinging and bacchanalia is one thing. Radical honesty and genuine loving networks is something entirely different.


  27. Good one. It reads very Scrotee McBoogarballsish


  28. Swinging and polyamory are not entirely overlapping concepts. As an example, for a lot of swingers its taboo to have sex with someone of the opposite sex without your partner in the room. Swinging is about sex, and to some degree, especially for old-school “lifestyle” types, also about making friends and being part of something.

    Polyamory is more about making an emotional connection. Yuck! I have more of a connection to some of you guys.

    As you might guess, I much prefer swinging; some of the highlights of my sex life have been when I just basically rolled over onto or into some random hot chick in the group room.


  29. The photo of the trio from the linked article is just gross and pathetic. I’ve done a 3 some but wasn’t especially impressed with the experience. Never went back. The people who defend this kind of relationship are just degenerates trying to rationalize their perversions and lack of character, not to mention corrosive. You can’t trust any of them. They’re certainly not people you want to build a life around or with. I agree with Zombie on this. Sartre and Simone de Beauvoir had this kind of relationship and they were both pieces of shit as human beings. God gave us free will for a reason- to rise above being pathetic pieces of shit. There’s more to life than just busting a nut.


    • Agreed. I haven’t participated in that but pursuing sexual gratification to the detriment of other people and other things is most definitely destructive.


  30. “One party to the “creatively ambiguous” polyamory agreement is getting the metaphorical shaft, and the other the actual shaft. The shafted is typically, but not always, the male”

    I have two anecdotes, beside myself who was in an open relationship before (best of my life). And in both of these the male did not get shafted.

    Case 1.

    A young attractive couple in their 20s. The wife was happy in monogamy, the husband not. He was a virgin at marriage and perhaps felt it had missed out or something. He wanted more sex and different kinds of sex then his wife did. But more than anything he was young, testosterone-filled and craved variety. She caught him cheating. When found out, he proposed open marriage. Perhaps he was afraid she would otherwise divorce him, I don’t know. One thing is for sure, he did not want to give up seeing this other woman. So the wife thought about it and relunctantly agreed.

    Anyway, they were both interning under this acupuncturist and together the couple approached him and explained their situation and the husband said, “my wife would like to date you and you have my blessings.”

    So the wife started dating the acupuncturist while the husband was seeing any woman who would give him the time of day. Basically he was dumpster diving with skanks and baby mamas, while his beautiful wife was seeing this very successful acupuncturist.

    Oh, did I mention the husband didn’t have a steady job?

    Anyway, the wife and this acupuncturist start working together. He starts mentoring her in business and finances and she really starts to blossom. Need I mention that she starts falling in love as well?

    The husband starts to get jealous over all the time she’s spending with the “doctor”. She’s surprised. After all, wasn’t he the one who cheated and wanted to be open in the first place? Did he really expect her to allow him to see other women while she sat alone pining at home?

    Anyway, eventually they divorced. After the divorce the wife proposed marriage to the acupuncturist but he turned her down because he didn’t want kids (she has 2 by her husband).

    Both of them are now single. Being a single mom isn’t easy but she manages pretty well.

    The children are really upset that their parents are not living together.

    Case 2:

    A young and attractive pregnant woman finds out her husband is cheating on her. Heartbroken, devastated, she confronts him. “How could you do this to me when I’m carrying your child inside me?!?!?!”

    She becomes depressed.

    The husband begs forgiveness but proposes open marriage.

    She does not agree but eventually out of fear of losing him, agrees.

    Like in the first case he starts seeing a variety of women. He’s known in the local music scene so meeting women is pretty easy for him.

    The wife is at home with a newborn baby. She’s not out on the prowl but keeps in mind that the possibility for her to meet other men is there for the taking, if she so chooses. I guess this thought helps her sleep at night.

    Anyway, as the baby grows a little older she involves herself with one man for a few months but it doesn’t go anywhere. Her husbands absence at home and his marijuana habit when he is home, combined with his lack of providing properly for his baby wears away at her. She has to shoulder the bulk of the finances while he’s out playing guitar, smoking pot and shagging other women.

    She divorces him.

    Now she’s married to a younger, hotter, tighter man who takes his husbandly and fatherly duties very seriously while her considerably older ex-husband is still screwing around with crazy chicks.

    They remain on friendly terms though, for the sake of their child. She also has two more children by the younger, newer model husband.


    • Notice the pattern. In both of these situations the guys turned a relationship from monogamous to open, which is already a tough move (you can go from open to monogamous easily, the girl feels like she’s won you over…to go from monogamous to open makes the girl feel like there’s something wrong with her or the relationship in general), then on top of it the guys let their value drop and actively indicated to the girl that other men’s value was higher.

      This is basically just really fuckin’ sloppy handling of setting up a working oLTR lol And like I explained in my long post, all of that shit there is a recipe for disaster.

      Once you enter an oLTR, you don’t get to let your value drop. An oLTR is basically banking on being able to satisfy her Hypergamy till you fully settle down. If you can’t lose your job at the office and get the news that your dad is dead and see some dude at the bar hit on your wife all on the same day and STILL believe you’re the highest-value guy she can get and that you offer more than all those guys and that you’ll be back on the horse plowing through life toward recovering from your setbacks within a week, you probably shouldn’t do an oLTR.


      • Serious question, are you capable of loving anyone?


      • on September 18, 2014 at 12:06 pm ALPHAbetacal Order

        The pattern is broken homes, and perpetuation of the welfare state.


      • “Serious question, are you capable of loving anyone?”

        Lol good catch. I’m sure he isn’t, since not giving a shit about anything or anyone is the key requirement of his absurd Peter Pan lifestyle.


      • Come now Amy… Love is merely a chemical reaction running into inexperience…


      • Lol good catch. I’m sure he isn’t, since not giving a shit about anything or anyone is the key requirement of his absurd Peter Pan lifestyle.

        says tinkerbell…


      • @Joachim Peiper
        “Serious question, are you capable of loving anyone?”

        Only Amy.

        I love all my girls, but I love them like I’d love a dog: wonderful creatures that I love and take care of, but I’m always fully aware that if they get hungry or angry enough they’re capable of ripping my fuckin’ leg off lol


      • Serious question Amy… Does he make you tingle?


      • @Thoroughbred
        “Serious question Amy… Does he make you tingle?”

        If that feeling in your stomach before you barf up your dinner counts as tingles then I’d say the answer is yes.


      • Serious answer… no, although he’s probably fun to hang with in a crowd. But he’s weak and lazy. The type of man feminism has created, and encouraged.


  31. “Genuine, egalitarian, open polyamory for all practical purposes doesn’t exist among white Westerners.”

    They’re not “white” but Karl and Kenya Stevens are making a solid go of it.
    And if “race is a social construct” has we were taught in the 70s, then these two are a socially constructed SWPL couple.

    Note: To be fair, the examples you give are not really of “open marriages” but the swinger/fetish lifestyle. The open marriage couples I know do not swing and are not part of a fetish underground. Many of them transition to open after catching a spouse cheating and see “radical honesty” as a means to keep the marriage and family unit in tact.

    Karl and Kenya…


  32. Off topic but important question. A girl who I am interested in just permanently broke up with her boyfriend. I want to get in before anyone else does. What’s the best way to go about it? Offer a shoulder to cry and then make a move? or, be direct about fucking her and hope she accepts your offer?


    • “Offer” = BETA! “hope” = BETA! Almost Gamma even! Alphas issue commands. Inform her what her new reality is. Don’t say “Would you/I want you… to meet me/come over…” Say “Meet me at…” or “Come over here at…”


      • What happens when she is forever haunted by memories of Greater Alpha cock:


      • on September 18, 2014 at 2:09 pm haunted trilobite

        Yeah, jockeying for position on a soiled cum saturated skank is a bad jump off point. Make sure she knows she’s a worthless skank at some point in the interaction


      • true open relationships are different in kind from “i don’t give a fuck what you do on your own time” relationships. The former is a verbally confirmed agreement to a strange and psychologically toxic sexual and romantic arrangement that is often to the benefit of weird lesser beta females and their ovulation cycles, and to the detriment of lesser beta males with a scarcity mentality and low T; the latter is an emergent condition of the player lifestyle where quantity of experience is valued higher than quality of experience, and short term trysts are valued higher than long term commitments.

        i’ve known more than a few dyed in the wool cads who genuinely did not give two fucks, (or pretended very convincingly not to give two fucks), what their flings were doing out of sight. but these cads weren’t getting on bended knee for their lovers either. if that sort of commitment expectation was on the table, and they were considering it, then you can bet they’d drop their pretense of giving no fucks about the sexual fidelity of their lovers.


      • > “a soiled cum saturated skank… worthless ” I read it as she was a really high quality chick – possibly wife material – whose boyfriend fucked up and lost her. It seemed like he has genuine feelings for her.


    • Out for drinks, eye fuck, good alpha posture, mad confidence, you are the prize, good vibe, kino = take what you want from her. She probably broke up with him because he beta’d out, perfect time for major confident alpha dose. work on your frame “shoulder to cry on… getting in before anyone else” = major beta frame. change it!


      • Remember, CHICKS ARE MORONS! She doesn’t know that you are FAKING Alpha. All she knows is that you have informed her what her new reality will be, and now she is experiencing the new reality of Alpha YOU.


      • Grow up – not now, but yesterday, already – and BE THAT MAN. Even if you have to fake it. Fake it til you make it. BE THAT MAN.


  33. CH you should post the path you took to get to creating this blog. Was it a cunt ex gf? What stage in your life did you start figuring all this out? Etc.

    Even though you may not want to write much at all about personal life (very understandable) it would mean a lot for someone like me who is in a difficult time in life to get some perspective on your posts.


  34. CH, open relationships are great. I have three mLTRs and I’ve told them all explicitly at this point that I have other women I date, even brought two together for a threesome once. They won’t leave because I’m more alpha than any other man in their lives.

    I’ve fucked four new girls in September so far (total girls, at least ten). How many total men have my mLTRs fucked? I don’t know (I tell them I don’t want to know), but I’m willing to bet the number isn’t very high — women simply don’t go out looking to get fucked when they are already getting regular dick a couple of times a week.


    • You need to change your handle to “Kan”…


      • Haha, finding this blog last October really has been good for me hasn’t it


      • @Kant

        Just last october? Jesus. What were you like before that?

        I’m guessing the transition must have not been that bad. Srs question


      • @anonymous

        I was shy and beta. I had an hb7 girlfriend who picked me in my social circle, and the occasional hookup at a college party if a girl thought I was cute.

        Nowadays I’m focusing on double teaming 18 year old freshman girls with my natural buddy. I know that might sound odd but there’s nothing quite like the feeling of DPing some innocent looking doe eyed girl I met two hours ago who all these betas with oneitis think is a sweet perfect angel. The last one actually thanked us afterward haha

        At this point I can get laid pretty much whenever I want so it’s a way to push the envelope.

        My natural friend has never heard of game by the way, and is way better than me. I have much yet to learn.


      • eh posted under my old account somehow


      • Kant – “but I’m willing to bet the number isn’t very high”

        Think you’d be surprised. Women are far more thirsty then men when it comes to sex.


    • it’s interesting you say you see them a couple times a week. guys on here talk a lot about the once a week or less rule but i think they do get antsy and cause more problems when you only see them that often or less. have you found that to be true as well or do you just like seeing them that often?


      • I just do whatever I feel like, I don’t think about it


      • “I just do whatever I feel like, I don’t think about it”

        okay so you can’t really assume their numbers aren’t very high then, can you?

        like DeNihilist said, ” Women are far more thirsty then men when it comes to sex.” so if you aren’t seeing them a couple times a week on a pretty regular basis, those chicks are either banging other guys or they won’t be sticking around for long.


    • Psh, @kant what types of girls do you have ‘open relationships’ with? Are they sluts? Do they have tattoos?

      I’m just curious because in my experience…the high smv girls are not really down to just have some casual sex for 2+ months with a guy that says he’s seeing other girls. The high smv girl just finds another somewhat alpha to have fun with.

      And usually what happens is she’ll see your initiating with her as weakness. So when you start ‘hitting her up’ she’ll think oh he’s in a position of weakness cause his other girls aren’t there I don’t want to be the last resort etc


      • @Will

        I live in NYC. They’re all 22-23. Columbia, NYU, and Williams grads. No tattoos. HB7-8s

        It’s not casual sex, they are mLTRs, there’s a difference.

        I do have a couple of FBs but those are not “open relationships”, they are FBs.

        If you think it’s not possible thats just a limiting belief


      • “I’m just curious because in my experience…the high smv girls are not really down to just have some casual sex for 2+ months with a guy that says he’s seeing other girls.”

        Ummmm yea, no kidding.


      • It takes a certain type of girl to do that.

        I’m from a very affluent and high status background. (For example my buddy was on a top college basketball team in the country). Not even he had access to a “harem” of girls and double teaming them. And he was on a college campus as the stud. Sure he put up like 10 notch counts in a year. It takes a type of girl to do that and that’s not high smv in my book just saying


      • @Will

        I hate to argue with people online because it is pointless, but for the sake of newbies reading this, you are completely wrong.

        I went to an ivy league school, and my buddy and I are double teaming 18-19 year old girls who do as well

        10 notches a year? I have four for September so far, all college girls from good schools. Not ‘sorority sluts’, and none of them have tattoos. Will probably put up another notch tonight.

        High SMV doesn’t make girls less slutty, it just makes them better at hiding it. Girls are girls, there is ZERO difference.

        @yareally can back me up on this


      • @will

        forgot to mention, what you have is madonna / whore complex. It’s strangely extremely strong even in the manosphere. It is the source of oneitits and one of the biggest problems guys face in their development


      • “the high smv girls are not really down to just have some casual sex for 2+ months”

        You’re right, they’re not really down to just have some casual sex for 2+ months…with YOU.

        “And usually what happens is she’ll see your initiating with her as weakness. So when you start ‘hitting her up’ she’ll think oh he’s in a position of weakness cause his other girls aren’t there”

        It IS weakness. Why are you initiating with her? Why are you “hitting her up”? You should have other girls on the go and not care.

        “The high smv girl just finds another somewhat alpha to have fun with.”

        What actually happens is the high SMV girls test you harder. They go date some other guy (or make one up lol) and go radio silent on you to see how you’ll react. If you text her or try to initiate, you lose. If you forget about her and just wait it out (it can take anywhere from weeks to months, I had one that took a year lol) eventually she goes “wow, I can’t believe he hasn’t tried to contact me…” and start dangling herself in front of you again, at which point you can play hard to get and turn down any offers to meet up that require any effort on your part whatsoever until you can say “ya I’ll be at Bar on Fri around 10.” and she can show up in person to try to dangle herself in front of you there, and then you just take her home.

        The problem is most guys, as you’re demonstrating, cave as soon as they haven’t heard from her in a couple weeks and they try to reinitiate and show their hand so she assumes they don’t have other girls ’cause if they did they wouldn’t care.

        It has nothing to do with the girl herself, it has to do with how you react to her. The exact same girl that turns you down because you re-initiated is chasing some more alpha dude around who’s telling her to go away because she’s annoying him.

        Girls is girls is girls, despite what Amy’s ASD will try to convince you of.

        “It takes a certain type of girl to do that.”

        This is why they won’t do it with you. Because you have a judgemental madonna/whore complex that they can pick up on (they learn to detect that when they’re in their teens and first realize that some people will think they’re slutty whores for expressing their sexual side).

        kant and I see girls as all the same, that’s why they let their sexual side out around us and do stuff like double-teaming him and his buddy, but they won’t do it with you. Your mindsets are too fucked and you’re too proud of them because you consider yourself and the imaginary unicorn girls you love as superior to “those other girls/guys”.

        You won’t get access to this side of girls until you fix these mindsets, and you won’t fix these mindsets because you don’t want to. You enjoy telling yourself that these other guys that other guys get are all riff-raff sluts with tattoos and daddy issues. Same shit Amy and feminists do. Same shit the neckbeard virgin nerd scoffing at the red pill does. It’s just hamster rationalization.

        “I hate to argue with people online because it is pointless, but for the sake of newbies reading this, you are completely wrong.”

        Yup, agreed.

        “High SMV doesn’t make girls less slutty, it just makes them better at hiding it. Girls are girls, there is ZERO difference.”

        This. So much this. High SMV also scares off a LOT of guys with the right attitude to make them feel comfortable expressing that slutty side. Like the guy who will treat a 6 like shit and in a fit of self-amusement try to escalate as fast as possible and have her get gangbanged by his buddies, but around a 9 he’ll switch to trying to be a gentleman and impress her and treat her like a delicate flower and not run the same type of game he ran on the 6. So that 9 doesn’t even get the same opportunities the 6 does and she knows people would be more judgemental of a 9 having a train run on her than a 6 so she’ll hide it better…but underneath girls are girls and she’s the same as the 6.

        “forgot to mention, what you have is madonna / whore complex. It’s strangely extremely strong even in the manosphere.”

        Yup. I don’t even want to get into why it’s such a bigger deal in the Manosphere than the PUA community lol but it’s a mindset that’s holding a lot of guys back and I notice the Manosphere likes to promote it as a good mindset which is a shame for the guys learning from only the Manosphere.


      • on September 18, 2014 at 5:48 pm having a bad day


        “the high smv girls are not really down to just have some casual sex for 2+ months with a guy that says he’s seeing other girls. The high smv girl just finds another somewhat alpha to have fun with.”

        “It takes a certain type of girl to do that.”

        “It takes a type of girl to do that and that’s not high smv in my book just saying”

        this is straight up ‘halo effect’…girls with high SMV (= good) could NEVER do ‘bad’ behavior…like being ‘slutty’…it’s a self-limiting belief…you need to let that red pill slide farther down your throat…it’s called a bitter pill for a reason…


      • @YaReally

        welcome back…lol…it got kind of lonely trying to get reco through his dates…lol…


      • Additionally I was in a frat at a pretty big school. There was probably 1 to 4 “three-somes” that I heard of with my 5 years there. Ha I also have sisters and normal girls don’t just get gang banged or double teamed.

        That’s really cool that you fuck girls with your buddy.

        I could also get into porn if I wanted ya know?

        Also, my guess is you watch a lot of porn based on what you keep rambling about.


      • @kant “Columbia nyu and Williams grads”

        This is how I know you’re full of shit bro. First of all girls that are this smart usually grew up in privileged backgrounds and actually usually aren’t that hot as well with the exception for say that one duke pornstar and obviously your outlier girls.

        I went to a good school and have sisters and was in a frat and what you are saying is not believable. Slutiest girl I heard of had a 25 guy notch count, so I understand that those girls are out there.

        What I’m saying is that takes a certain type of female. I agree that all have a wild side but not all are gonna be doing things like that


      • on September 19, 2014 at 4:22 am haunted trilobite

        Are you for real? Personal anecdotal experience counts but not a whole lot in light of all the other anecdotal accounts of rampant sluttery. Read on rok an account of a guy whose sister (best friend, inseparable since birth, etc) sold him out completely for a drug dealer alpha. Even I’ve known top tier rich girls that are model citizens on the surface but are raging nymphos when you might scratch the surface. A clue is you might find dawkins other or hitchens on their shelves, but they might also be the first ones receiving communion amassage given Sunday


      • You are reading on “rok”. I agree with a lot of concepts they write about and support it. But you have to realize that what some people say is not the norm or may not even be true. Sure everyone has a fucked up story here and there

        It’s like if I wanted “Kant’s” lifestyle then I would just get into the porn industry probably


      • @Will

        don’t sweat it kid. these guys have lower standards than you because it’s comfortable for them. they will blow smoke up your ass all day saying they get high quality girls all the time but that’s bs. they think any girl whose young and hot is high value. like i said, low standards.

        they don’t know what high quality really is and if they do, they can’t hold on to it. they aren’t getting and…keeping…hot girls who are also loyal, ethical, kind, wife/mother material.

        stay on your mission and you will succeed far more than they ever will. these aren’t the guys you should be looking to for advice or approval.

        remember this:

        “The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it but that it is too low and we reach it.”

        ~ Michelangelo


      • Will Will Will…. Willy Will Will… How old are you Will? Serious question.

        Please don’t believe @Midnight Toker there are no special snowflakes. All of us are ruled by our biology. That includes all women. Consider this… that sweet, unassuming 8 who is a great student, Ivy educated is still 100% woman. Women are BUILT for sex, they have so many more nerves dedicated to these sensations than men do, ZERO refractory period (multiple orgasms, wave orgasms etc.) and the biggest sexual organ of all – the brain – DRIVES female orgasm. Women can literally think themselves into orgasm with no visual or physical stimulation.

        This all makes sense, because the entire purpose of a woman is to reproduce. So she has been graced with all the tools – very strong sex drive, pumped full of hormones and chemicals to amplify this drive. This also creates the background for hypergamy, a strong drive seeking strong mates. So EVERY woman will trade up if given the opportunity. Solipsism will erase/rationalize any guilt for doing so.

        If a woman, built for sex and willing to trade up actually MEETS a dude who can match her needs in this area, can their be any other outcome but she does whatever she needs to do to try and secure this relationship, and if she can’t secure it, at least partake of it as long as possible?

        Try some experiments man, test this for yourself. Go hit on these good girls and push things. Hit on married girls and push things. You will be SHOCKED the first time a smart, degreed, sexy, professional, married to a “good man” 26 YO will whisper in your ear, you a total fucking stranger (no names!) who she met just 30 minutes ago – “come meet me on the roof, I am not wearing any underwear”… and not shocked at all the rest of the time stuff like that happens.

        All of romantic literature read by women features the same plot, the woman is so sexy she snares an uber Alpha man who has to totally ravish her. Think about this.

        And back in the day Grandma wanted the dick… and there were so many stories about “the milkman’… huh?


      • Mods… had a response in this thread around 10AM EST today? what’s happening?


      • on September 22, 2014 at 10:24 pm haunted trilobite

        Hah. That was good, Will. And you’re right that some stories are more horrific than others. BUT the world is a crazy place out there, completely FUBAR, and you just need to observe the transactional emphasis of female behaviour to get an inclination of what they’re capable of. “what have you done for me lately?” Just look for it. They are masters of all that they survey, in that the world is one big ball of fun with them at the centre, extracting what they want from those ‘blessed’ to be in their lives, at every single moment. Be it material wealth, emotional support, ego-bolstering, etc.
        I don’t quite know why Midnight Toker is setting up a conspiratorial “us against them” scenario, but if it’s in an effort to advise against contributing to the degenerate fuckfest, how can I disagree? It is wise to be aware of how capable these heathen tramps can fuck your life up though. Sticking to your mission is good advice.
        I don’t agree with Sentient that we’re completely slaves to our biology either, but think the problem is that moral constraints are absent, or are simply presented as a façade. That means that the biological drives are given free reign when Jiminy Cricket has been completely smushed by feminism and degenerate pop culture. [As it turns out, crickets make noises by rubbing their knees together, so the conscience analogy makes no sense anymore, in the days when women’s knees are complete strangers to each other. However Pinocchio may have come to the fore, since the number of real boys are dwindling. If women’s noses grew in proportion to the amount of dicks that have been up them, we’d see some interesting sights].
        Try talking in a general sense to women about how slutty women are in this day and age, and how it’s bad for society, is in complete contrast to how our ancestors behaved, etc: you’ll get all varieties of defensive questions “live and let live”, etc, all completely lacking the concept of culpability/accountability. Usually, because they know they’ve been, and will be that slut again in future. It’s no harm to be wary of special snowflake thinking.


    • @kant – nice turnaround in a year eh? sounds like you’ve got at least some advantageous looks on your side, BUUUUT ofcourse we know that’s only a toe in the door at best. Would be helpful for us guys going out & trying to improve our lot (with lifetime notch counts under 10 in our mid 30s, for myself at least) – to know what you did differently to get to where you are, if you’re willing to share any advice. Right now I’m just trying to focus on the bigger picture of getting comfy with discomfort in trying new things & putting my intentions on the table, which will hopefully self-correct a lot of other things I’m doing wrong. Cheers for any advice


      • Focus on becoming a dominant guy, talk to a lot of girls and push every interaction as far as you can. You’ll be surprised at how you’ll succeed way more often that you expect


  35. I have known 4 couples? like this. Of them, 2 were older prople, one late thirties couple not bad for their age each with prior failed marriages and chuldren from them but not with each other. They were a true couple, but would fuck other people at parties One, late forties liberals, also look ok for their age, a trio one man 2 women, one of which was his wife of 20 years with kids. They all live together. Third, a young married couple, one kid, girl a 6 and the dude is a little scrawny but otherwise good looking. I had the pleasure of fucking his wife and their girlfriend while he cranked it. Strange, but whatever. He assured me he wasnt gay. Both of the females were cute, fuckable, the girlfriend was much better though. The fourth, id say an 8, very pretty, a whore to be sure, fiance didnt like it at first and let her fuck around to keep from losing her. Total pussy if you ask me. He told my one day “my girl wants to fuck you”. He helped me fuck his girl. Im pretty syre she would bring a girl in for him every so often so it wasnt a straight raw deal for him, and all of her friends are sexy as fuck.

    My point is, my experience is totally the opposite of yours. Aside from one schlub helping his girl get dick from dudes in exchange for a threesome here and there, none of the people i know who engage in such heretical debauchery have been ugly or losers.


    • By it’s nature it’s ugly and loser-ish. Fucking a chic while another male watches and wacks it. Sounds like you wouldn’t have even cared if you got hit with some splash.


  36. on September 18, 2014 at 12:17 am Andrea Ostrov Letania

    It basically means a white guy is willing to have his woman go around with black men.

    White women may choose to settle down with white guys–often beta males–because they are more dependable economically and emotionally
    But for sexual fun, white women are interracists who believe black men are racially/sexually superior to white men. White women got jungle fever and don’t find adequate satisfaction with soft flabby white guys with dweeby voices. They need to be humped by black guys with bigger puds, harder muscles, and thicker voices.

    And indeed, even many white guys have made peace with this arrangement. They play domestic partners but their women are allowed to find greater pleasure with big black guys.


    • just remember that you can’t unfuck a nigger babygirl.


    • The men who do this are the enemies of civilization. They are unable to man the fuck up and run their wife, and they let their wife run them, and naturally the woman becomes an utter whore willing to fuck any and everything, because there are no obstacles or limits to her animalistic behavior.

      The women are horrific for taking part in it, but blaming them is somewhat like blaming the dog for peeing on the carpet and chewing up the sofa; the fault ultimately lies in the trainer. It’s the men who support them, house them, feed them, and encourage this behavior that are helping lead society down a path to utter darkness. If they have kids, they will raise their sons to be fags and their daughters to be whores, and voluntary debasement and self-destruction will only further become a common part of national life.

      Maybe we can find some of these ebola soldiers that are going to come back to the US in a few months and encourage them to get involved with that scene. Wipe the whole filthy den out. Anyone know any of those soldiers? See if you can discreetly send them enticements to such arrangements.


    • you can’t un-bang a black guy.


    • It basically means a white guy is willing to have his woman go around with black men.

      LOL Troll is obvious.

      And looking at Facebook wall comments, or the comment section at Return of Latin Kings, Black men are not more “alpha” at all. They and Indians and Arabs are whiny, mushy – and incredibly dumb when it comes to approaching women online.

      “hi i like yor pic and what you write and want to get to know you more. pls pls write to me.” Typical non-White attempt at pickup on Facebook walls.


    • on September 19, 2014 at 4:29 am haunted trilobite

      What you’re describing is akin to how eve ate the apple . And look where that got her. Adam won’t be so quick to follow these days


  37. I only know one couple in an official OLTR. They’re both reasonably good-looking even as they age, she’s bisexual and they only bring women home. For them it seems the best relationship in the world. I’m not sure I’d ever be able to separate love from sex and from Jon, though, so it’s monogamy for us unless he desires otherwise.


  38. on September 18, 2014 at 4:34 am gunslingergregi

    so yesterday me and my buddy went into the woods with bayonets to kill a bear
    we found bear shit
    I got a branch of 3 inch thorns broke off on top my head
    and really after the initial pain it doesn’t hurt at all having a crown of thorns
    prob blazed couple miles into forest with no paths
    and came to a clearing with all kinds of vines
    so I hand my buddy the phone throw my knife into ground
    I tested the fucking vine like 3 times for my weight
    but yea uhh I do the tarzan yell and swing off the screen
    then come flying back to ground on my back when it breaks
    showed the video around people laughing asses off for real he he he
    my buddy was in video yea that vine will hold you I guarantee it
    we found pile of bones
    and I hold one up to my arm looks like the small bone in forearm
    could of been rib though maybe but was only one of em
    and only two shoulder blades so wtf
    I looked all over for a skull couldn’t find one
    no vertebrae no pelvis
    so I don’t know what it was
    piles of little bones like finger sized
    imma say deer though
    felt good cleared my mind a bit
    had a good time
    didn’t think about a bitch
    too many thorn holes lol
    going out again today he he he
    my buddy texted today
    lets go swing on some vines and hurt your other arm lol
    good to have bro’s


    • on September 18, 2014 at 4:58 am gunslingergregi

      well really went there to find ginsing but yea after seeing the fresh bear shit
      objectives change primary became what we gonna do if come upon a bear
      I think he might of ran I know I wouldn’t so would of had chance to stab shit out of it while it chased him down he he he


    • gunslingergregi,

      I’ll say it again, they should make a reality tv show with your life!


      • I’d watch it.


      • on September 18, 2014 at 6:07 pm gunslingergregi

        we got around ounce of ginsing today
        it is a bitch to find though
        but hey second day found a spot now
        you guys with loot shit
        so two years ago I guess it hit k per pound dry december
        right now around 60 a pound so ahh
        was told it drys to 1/3
        so 180 for pound dry after you dry it
        seems like might be lucrative to be the dude buying the wet shit now from the people harvesting
        felt like talking bout something besides bitches
        sounds like a job for yareally


      • on September 18, 2014 at 6:19 pm gunslingergregi

        and apparently china buys the shit out of it and that means the richer they get more it goes up
        kind of interesting


      • on September 18, 2014 at 8:00 pm gunslingergregi

        well ok It does involve woman I suppose
        the dude is the boyfriend of the chick I have known almost my whole life
        kind of apropos to the sentient thing below
        yea I noticed a change she jealous we going out and getting into adventures and shit
        getting a little scared cause she know what the bitches I get look like
        and her dude being dumb lol
        talks about me and my bitch before
        he says how you control your woman like that
        he has brought this shit up before
        he like when you eat she is feeding you
        when you smoke she is lighting it for you
        when your drink empty she is filling it
        without you having to say anything
        i’m like what do you mean
        he like at some point you must of laid down the law like do this or gtfo
        laid he he he
        but yea I was like no I just told her bout some of stuff my wife did for me
        she tried to copy some but never really told her she had to do it
        the big thing that fucks his head is that when we drank the blue shit
        the night I drank him off the chair
        I told my bitch I wanted my dick sucked
        and she went right under table and did it
        I think that completely fucked his head
        cause I guess he told his girlfriend to do it
        and she refused
        but apparently his girl did take a video so wtf
        I was not noticing what they were doing at time
        but I prob almost had 3/4 gallon of liquor maybe half I might be exaggerating
        although I make the shit in gallon jug and we drank one
        it is kind of wild that I give up a bitch that another person would think was the top of what is possible to do my mission in life
        but that she doesn’t come close to my wife
        I could look at it like I have been really blessed to have the woman I have had
        but if a bitch didn’t act like I was the center of her world
        then I wouldn’t have let her in my inner circle in the first place
        so he is with a chic that doesn’t do what he wants comparitivly or just grass is greener
        or he just a good payer keeps his bitches head down
        self esteem low so she never leaves lol
        I’d definetly rather have my chick doing the shit on her own
        than having to talk about some other dudes bitch how she treats him to try to get mine to treat me that way
        I think it works much better if you talk about how you current wife treated you
        and then that makes you worthy of getting the same treatment
        but talking about another dudes woman doing shit for him
        is not gonna make you worthy it will make him worthy of that devotion
        just like my bitches husband who thought he had her wrapped asking me basically how the fuck do I get her to treat me like that
        cause I guess and have seen yea she don’t treat him like that
        so yea it does depend on dude not really the woman even
        one dude gets the devotion and one don’t with same bitch
        cause most dudes don’t really know what it is like to completely own a chicks
        they think they on top of world till they see what someone else can do with the same bitch
        but its like kind of fucking with my head that I don’t see her as the pinnacle of what I can achieve but rather another learning experience
        to get to where I need to really be
        so anyway it gets down to
        ill go with him in morning and her at night
        so she doesn’t get too jealous of the time lol
        she had steak cooked by the time we got back and some chicken
        he like not the other stuff just hanging out
        i’m like yup lol
        fucking shit always gonna be temptation
        i’m gonna be a good boy and everything though
        open yea right
        till you realize you weren’t supercharging your bitch in the first place and you thought you were top of the world till some dude from the past comes along
        and takes it
        but really might be doing you a favor so you can try to get what you really want
        real love not some cheap imitation


      • on September 18, 2014 at 8:07 pm gunslingergregi

        my whole life people always look to me as the perfect relationship
        even when i’m not in one anymore wtf


      • on September 18, 2014 at 8:13 pm gunslingergregi

        maybe why they want people to quit smoking
        it is a opportunity for at least 20 times a day for your partner to indicate to the world that you are the one who is higher value
        which means they got to be focusing on you to notice without saying shit it is time for another
        although I just had to snap my fingers and she would be on it too
        compliance tests all day long every day


      • on September 18, 2014 at 8:16 pm gunslingergregi

        crazy part is my bitch would love to be out in the woods with me like that
        so that would just incinerate brains right there
        prob good to have some man time
        especially if you are in an ltr get em jealous lol
        include em every once in a while maybe


      • on September 19, 2014 at 7:52 am gunslingergregi

        dam 300 laws and regulations on doing ginsing
        wtf there is nowhere free to this country
        can’t do anything that would make loot without someone being up your ass to collect your work


      • Another reason to hate liberals

        it is liberals who love big government, a nanny state that like mother superior in a convent regulates everything in our life as if we were little helpless children.

        Here in quebec you can not even hand down a used baby car seat as they have expiry dates and you can be sued if there is a problem,

        when I was a kid I used to lie down under the rear window on the shelf in my father’s 1967 Ford

        how times have changed

        If we let the left have their way we will all someday walk all wrapped in bubble wrap and wear eye goggles and protective helmets even to go grocery shopping.

        California is planning on installing thermostats that the state will be able to raise or lower if they do not approve of the setting you chose in your own home

        Here in Canada it is now illegal to sell citronella oil!! a natural product that repels mosquitoes and is better than using products full of chemicals.

        That is what happens when you have too many bureaucrats and a nanny state

        Call it nanny state, big brother whatever, the left, feminists and workers Unions love that and wants more of that

        and it is killing entrepreneurship and private business

        Leftism is a mental defect


      • on September 19, 2014 at 8:00 am gunslingergregi

        i suppose barriers to entry might be good though for the people who overcome them


  39. Judging from the marriage vows at that “wedding”, a lot of people in polyamory are simply emotionally and developmentally stunted. Sample vow –

    “I promise to always stay playful and silly with you, to build blanket forts and play games and laugh uncontrollably together, to never completely grow up even when we grow old.”



  40. on September 18, 2014 at 5:16 am Modern Primitive

    Similar story, but the swinger dude I know who ended up dating a girl I knew from highschool was actually fairly alpha and had no problems attracting women. This guy was a born natural. He had no fear and no shame, and reveled in offending delicate sensibilities.

    He and her went out for a number of years, she was an honest to god attractive red head.


  41. Note that when swingers stand in front of the camera they put on their best smiles. They have an interest in making people think they are doing this forever and it’s all great. “Please, more people come join us!” Just like those in the homosexual subculture – many of which actually leave that subculture and stop acting like perverts, as research shows.

    You don’t get to see them when they leave that habit, and you don’t get to hear what they say then and how they feel about having destroyed their minds and self-esteem.


    • Note that when swingers stand in front of the camera they put on their best smiles. They have an interest in making people think they are doing this forever and it’s all great. “Please, more people come join us!” Just like those in the homosexual subculture

      Yup, sad degenerate diseased people want to ruin everybody else too. Instead of fixing their own faults, they try and bring other people down.


  42. Interesting to see Z. and Dirk Johanson both differentiate between swinging and open relationships, but taking opposite positions in their comments.

    To Z., polyamory is “radical honest” while swinging is bacchanalia. He wants a “genuine loving network”, not “focus on sex”. (At this point we don’t need to ask for a picture. )

    Dirk Johanson writes that swinging is cool, while polyamory is “yuck!” because of the weirdness in trying to make a relationship with several people involved.


    • If you’d have to choose between the two I would have to agree with Dirk. At least in swinging you leave the place and go home as a couple. In “polyamory” there are some truly dark hidden motives going on, with one partner putting up with it because he/she can’t find anything better, and it’s with you around the clock.

      Therapists could probably give us more information if the media didn’t have an interest in hiding the effects of “alternative lifestyles” and acted like the subcultures’ hired promoters.


  43. “He crowed about sending her off on her own in seedy nightclubs to gather concubines into his whoreticultural goonhouse.”

    What a brilliant post.


  44. Well observed, well written, CH

    When your pimp/daddy-hand is strong, normally

    a) you wouldn’t accept your girl straying around
    b) your girl wouldn’t want to stray anyhow
    c) your girl is so concerned with pleasing you that she doesn’t want to fuck other guys (she might find other guys optically attractive and even verbalize it, but not in a way to make you jealous…)
    b) your girl is more concerned that you leave her, because she knows that other girls like you
    c) likely to suspect you of not always being faithful, but clever enough not to ask directly

    My girl knows, that I cheated on previous gf’s, and sometimes she says “I hope you never cheated on me”, which I laugh off and change the topic. She NEVER asked directly “Did you cheat on me?”, because she knows I wouldn’t lie and deep inside she doesn’t want to know, because it would make things so much harder for her.

    People in officially open relationships or even worse polyamourous relationships are indeed mostly pathetic human trash with low T and high voices (males) or ugly (females)…and the worst part is the way of trying to convince the world how open-minded, liberal and unrestricted they are.


  45. heh


  46. The lack of legitimate biological jealousy in “open” relationships is what dooms them.

    Either she is into you or she isn’t; you want to keep her around or you don’t. I do understand the desire for all of us to try and adapt to the disproportionate effect that technology has had on our social structure.


    • > “adapt to the disproportionate effect that technology has had on our social structure” The Amish had it right – turn your back on modernity and just walk away from it.


      • Half or more of the comments on this thread are from dudes whose family trees are about to abruptly end in this:


    • This is correct. No amount of PUA/hipster experimentation can trump the primal biological urges inherent in humans.


    • “The lack of legitimate biological jealousy in “open” relationships is what dooms them. Either she is into you or she isn’t; you want to keep her around or you don’t.:



      • all truly open relationships are doomed, although sociopaths could make them work for a short while.


      • Then again, depending how deep down the abyss you want to go, all male/female relationships are doomed anyway.


      • Cryo,

        at the risk of sounding corny, this is not true. The comments here show me how few people have ever experienced a truly fulfilling and loving marriage/relationship. I was in my 40s before I found the woman I am with now. I would not trade her for all the gold in the world or for Hugh Hefner’s lifestyle. I’ve banged a lot of women too. My notch count is well over 50. I would not have said this 20 years ago but I say it freely now. I feel very fortunate reading this thread today.


      • Sounds good, Joachim Peiper! Congrats to you.


  47. oLTRs = Jizzbergs


  48. Looking for some strategies from the assembled on dealing with the aggressive cockblock… an area of weakness that needs improvement. So how could this situation below be salvaged, if at all?

    during the summer, out on the street on Friday night in a major city. It is about 12AM. I am hanging out watching the scene. Taxis pulling up all over the street and throngs of 7,8,9 girls getting out. Very dressed up. I see a bunch keep going into this one place so I go in to check it out. Velvet rope, doormen with headsets kind of place. I roll up, just wearing a polo shirt and pants. Guy waves me on in no problem. It is a split level place, fancy restaurant upstairs, chill upscale lounge downstairs.

    Go to the lounge, place is really perfect. Not too dark, not too loud, not too crowded, not expensive (LOL) at all, good drinks and just pods of hot girls, some groups some with guys. Amazing place really. I am hanging by the bar, see two hot girls come in with three older dudes and hang at a table. The one that looks like NFL AM host Erin Coscarelli (middle below) gives me a look, she is a solid 8. Call her “erin” for this post. She is hanging with a younger blond girl, like the one on the left below.

    They stay not long and split. Shit I am thinking. Still hanging when an hour or so later they come back. She is close to me now so I open. we start having a good conversation. she is sitting on a stool, I am standing to her right, my back to the bar, her friend is sitting to her left.. Get things going through the “bean farmer” routine, then develop some really deep rapport with “you have PGS – pretty girl syndrome, it must suck your friends are jealous of you and judge you etc. she is totally eating it up. She is leaning into me, whispering in my left ear. My hands are on her legs, then on her waist. at one point she looks me in the eye and says “you’re pretty handsy huh”, I just look at her and shrug. she seems to eat this up. Sexy vibe going…

    Her friend is getting hit on by a chode, and she keeps eye coding “Erin” and trying to get her attention. I tease her about this saying “I think your friend is trying to save you from me” with a smirk. She rolls her eyes and says “Nah I think she is jealous, I think she wants to do me…” DING DING DING, sexualized convo ahead. Deep rapport continues. Now her friend, the blonde cockblock gets really agitated and pulls Erin’s stool toward her a few inches… I keep up the kino and conversation and slide her back toward me. eventually the blonde grabs her arm, really physically and says let’s go we need to go upstairs and pulls her off the stool. Erin looks back at me and says come meet me upstairs. So I shrug, go to pay my tab and head up to continue.

    Get up front to the stairs to go up, they are both standing there, but now upstairs is closed. It’s like 2 AM now. I start to re-engage with Erin when the cockblock grabs the bouncer (who was a very nice guy in a suit, middle aged, short fat dude – no aggro bouncer at all) and says to him “we don’t want to talk to this guy!” He kind of rolls his eyes and gives me a soft almost pleading “Sir – the ladies say they don’t want to talk to you…” Erin is quiet at this point. I am pretty surprised, like LOL and WTF! I have nothing n my bag to break out so I just chalk it up to a learning experience. Shrug, laugh and say yeah sure… amble off. Fuck.

    So any tips on dealing first with the cockblock and then once things got to the bouncer stage…?


    • on September 18, 2014 at 4:30 pm ALPHAbetacal Order

      I read nowhere in the post that you were with anyone. The best cock block defense is to overwhelm with more cocks, that or get a number and tell her to meet you elsewhere sans the entourage.


      • Yeah I always roll single. Most of my game forays are on business travel. i parachute into strange places I’ve never been and have to do everything on my own. I guess I could start out buddying up with another dude early in the night. Never tried that.


    • Not shitting on you but I’m in a rush today so I don’t have time to sugar-coat anything lol You did good, you just fucked up working the group. We’ve all done it, it’s hard to remember to work the group dynamics when a hottie is up in your grill lol here’s a breakdown of where you effed up for the future:

      “Her friend is getting hit on by a chode, and she keeps eye coding “Erin” and trying to get her attention. I tease her about this saying “I think your friend is trying to save you from me” with a smirk. She rolls her eyes and says “Nah I think she is jealous, I think she wants to do me…” DING DING DING, sexualized convo ahead. Deep rapport continues. Now her friend, the blonde cockblock gets really agitated and pulls Erin’s stool toward her a few inches… I keep up the kino and conversation and slide her back toward me. eventually the blonde grabs her arm, really physically and says let’s go we need to go upstairs and pulls her off the stool. Erin looks back at me and says come meet me upstairs. So I shrug, go to pay my tab and head up to continue.

      The fuck was all this?? You ignored her BFF then tooled her BFF and then competed with her BFF for her, and then were surprised when the BFF didn’t approve of you?? lol Calibrate that shit yo.

      You got too blinded by the prize to see the rest of the game and so you got nothing but a fun memory and blueballs. 🙂

      “Her friend is getting hit on by a chode, and she keeps eye coding “Erin” and trying to get her attention.”

      This is where you SAVE HER FRIEND lol You scare the chode off and ideally introduce her to someone cooler so she isn’t stuck as the third wheel. Instead of saving her and showing how badass calibrated you are, you actively kept her friend from saving her and let her just get tortured while also demonstrating that you’re either too dumb to read when a girl needs saving, too lame to get rid of a chode in a cool way, or actively being mean to her by making her suffer.

      So there’s strike 1.

      “Now her friend, the blonde cockblock gets really agitated and pulls Erin’s stool toward her a few inches…”

      She’s saying hey I’m bored being your third wheel and not having fun, how about engaging me?

      And do you start a group conversation and demonstrate to her that you’re a cool guy and have a few laughs (at the same time creating a jealousy plotline between them and showing your girl you’re cool enough to interact with her friend and flirt with her a bit too), so that the cockblock eventually bails on you two and hopes you hook up?

      Nope, you:

      “I keep up the kino and conversation and slide her back toward me.”

      Now I know it felt badass, and it’s a funny story and everything…and it feels good to win the girl from a cockblocking friend. But at the end of the day she’s known her friend longer than she’s known you so she’s going to choose her friend over you, and you aren’t getting anything without the friend’s approval in a 2-set.

      Now this just makes you look gropey/selfish/annoying because there’s no way you could be missing the signs that her friend isn’t having any of you, so now you’re actively coming off like a jerk…your girl loves it, but the BFF is hating you more and more with each moment.

      “eventually the blonde grabs her arm, really physically and says let’s go we need to go upstairs and pulls her off the stool. Erin looks back at me and says come meet me upstairs.”

      This kind of thing is where you need to take a step back and go “ok the one girl loves me, but this other one HATES me…how can I solve this problem?”

      If you had just saved her from the chode earlier or engaged her more instead of being a horny dog with a boner humping her friend’s leg, she would probably have given you guys her blessing to go bang.

      Calibrate, calibrate, calibrate.

      “Erin is quiet at this point. I am pretty surprised, like LOL and WTF!”

      Hopefully you’re not surprised anymore after this breakdown lol This is a totally predictable and expected result from the formula you executed. It would surprise me if this DIDN’T happen, like if you said “and then Erin was like I like him let’s let him come with us” and we all left together, I would be mindblown. She’s not going to flip the bird to her friend for some random guy who’s actively been a dick to her friend…that’s bringing so much drama into her life.

      “So any tips on dealing first with the cockblock and then once things got to the bouncer stage…?”

      Ya, befriend the friends (classic Mystery Method group theory style) and don’t GET to the stage where things go to a bouncer lol


      • Thanks for the sugar free breakdown. It’s better that way, lower calories…

        Spot on as usual. I didn’t put any thought at all into the friend, thought my 1 on 1 charm would win the day. And unprepared for just how hostile the CB was!

        Another thing to work on. And I set myself up at the outset, by following the IOI to open to begin with. Need to try and open more with out getting the IOI. A weakness, I’ve trained myself to be aggressive based on the subtle IOI and that works really well for me on a single.


      • @YaReally: Can’t poke a hole through that solid advice. But I’ll admit that that simple advice might have slipped my own mind if in a similar situation, which goes to show that Game is a game of calibration where a fraction of a Game-Second too slow, and you blow it. I need to read these replies over and over until they become a part of my split-second second nature.

        P.S. On that middle girl. In three years, she’ll be outdated.
        P.P.S. And the thing about “major cities” is …


      • on September 20, 2014 at 1:15 pm having a bad day


        YaReally covered the analysis pretty well…lol…i have some questions for you…

        “Her friend is getting hit on by a chode, and she keeps eye coding “Erin” and trying to get her attention.”

        did you even think about trying to rescue Erin’s friend at all? It’s just a calibration question…bc not rescuing her seemed kind of mean from the cheap seats…lol…

        “I tease her about this saying “I think your friend is trying to save you from me” with a smirk. She rolls her eyes and says “Nah I think she is jealous, I think she wants to do me…” DING DING DING, sexualized convo ahead.”

        did you even think about a 3 way?…lol…a calibration question…

        “I didn’t put any thought at all into the friend,…”

        why not?…just a rookie mistake or was there something else going on?…

        “…thought my 1 on 1 charm would win the day.”

        it does, you just have to spread it around better…lol…

        “And unprepared for just how hostile the CB was!”

        YaReally explained this pretty well, but was Erin’s bff hotter than Erin?…serious question (based on the photo = yes)…bc that adds another dimension to the analysis/interaction…lol…

        props for going out and getting better…


    • When I see a photo like the one above, I can be in mind for one or the other:

      – take the candy

      – organize a Mannerbund by way of which these girls will change onto long dresses and head covering, taking hatd inatruction in humity, internalizing piety and nursing babies at the feet of their Men.


  49. “He discussed the shared commitment to social justice that first brought us together, and said that one of the first things that attracted me to Bret was when he asked me for feminist reading suggestions”

    That just says it all right there. I couldn’t understand how two people could come together in such a way until I saw that and then realized “Oh, they’re both idiots. Makes sense now”.


  50. Tobias Funke.


    • on September 18, 2014 at 2:30 pm haunted trilobite

      Excellent reference. Tobias did have some sort of success with a complete wierdo. While hot wife was reamed by typical sex symbol


  51. Thank you for a hilarious article. I do agree, you hit *many* things about my lifestyle right on the nail and had me in tears. I may even know your friends. But genuine, egalitarian, open polyamory for all practical purposes DOES exist. If you’d like proof, you’re welcome to contact me 🙂


    • Spin Hamster, spin!


    • Kinda clicked through and looked at your picture. If the Shiv Lord responds (i’d say it’s fifty/fifty), I would imagine that he will use you as an example of the rule.

      Getting an effeminate, effete, touchy feely hipster with socially distorted esteem issues to commit to you (and maybe even 2 of em, who knows) is absolutely a biological success for someone that looks like you.

      I’d revel deeply in the fact that your time on this planet coincided with the only 60 year span of “peak woman” while you still can.



      • lol

        The shiv is strong in this one


      • Ow, that hurts. Thank you for proving that the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory is true. Oh drats, look at the time. I need to pack for my weekend away with my boyfriend *and* our girlfriend. I hope you have a nice weekend too.


      • have you ever had a threesome with your boyfriend and another man?


      • thank you for proving my point.


      • You know CH, you’re right. Agreeing to have sex with my boyfriend and his boyfriend is not very egalitarian. Next time I’ll turn him down and tell him we can only have FFM threesomes. If he wants sex with men, it’s going to have to be without me around. I hope he doesn’t ask anytime soon, since I’ve so far never turned him down and I’m hoping to continue the streak to year 5.

        If he asks why we can’t have MMF threesomes anymore, I’ll point him here. I’d hate to not be fair.


      • the point, amber, since it has flied over you, is that the behavior and choices of bisexual men are alien to straight men, and thus your gay-gay-fag hag lifestyle tells us nothing about how actual real heterosexual men would act under similar scenarios or given similar propositions.


      • Well then, I have one of those too. My heterosexual boyfriend is not interested in MMF threesomes though. We only have FFM ones. I guess that relationship isn’t egalitarian, but if I’m bisexual, maybe it is?

        Either way, I’ve experienced and seen genuine, egalitarian, open polyamory… and a lot of what you described too (to each their own). But as you can see why, a lot of us keep on the down low.

        Tom: I know right?


    • Hey Amber, you really don’t mind wading into the belly of the beast, do you. Haters gonna hate,

      Anyhow, no need yourself to confirm the existence of cool, beautiful-people poly (as opposed to the typical, sordid, obese-people polamatoryness common in America) Just do a search on the Mosuo people of China.

      LOL- the Mosuo people remind me of Eastern Europe in one way. There are so many beautiful women living with lots of very dorky looking guys. Don’t know if that has anything to do with their culture.


  52. I talked to a girl once in a D/s relationship who would sleep with guys her bf picked out for her. She said she was fine with it because it made her feel owned, like valued property. I think it’s the opposite. It would make me feel like unloved trash. I think it’s so vile and biologically perverse that I’m pretty sure I’d rather be cheated on than be pushed into cheating by a man I love who supposedly loves me.


    • Of course knowing what I know about you and your telling need to examine this via your personal filter, it seems pretty self evident that you are trying to talk yourself away from the very strong and real feelings that in fact, this turns you not only on, but would likely turn you out.

      Using logic to override your emotions is a valiant attempt and should be applauded, but it also lets me know you haven’t met your first “One” yet. You know, the “One” whom you will do anything for.


      • on September 18, 2014 at 8:19 pm gunslingergregi

        but it also lets me know you haven’t met your first “One” yet. You know, the “One” whom you will do anything for.””””””””””

        good observation I think she was thinking of me while she typed it


      • “Of course knowing what I know about you and your telling need to examine this via your personal filter, it seems pretty self evident that you are trying to talk yourself away from the very strong and real feelings that in fact, this turns you not only on, but would likely turn you out.”

        Yea, that must be it. Lol, this comment section never disappoints.


  53. **clap clap clap clap** (pun intended)
    This is so true.
    My husband once talked me into going to a swinger’s bar out of curiosity.
    I’d seldom felt so attractive in my life.
    It was like being Miss America at a Walmart in Mississippi.
    There was one girl about fifteen years younger who was probably 2 SMV points lower than I was, and she was “next hottest”. The place would packed, too and GAH!!!
    Obviously he was deeply disappointed and we hightailed it out of there.


  54. I have no doubt the majority of open relationships are like this. On the other hand I’m a bi guy trying to find an open relationship for my own purposes. I’ve found that if you have an attractive girl you can lure guys you like into an mmf and during this mmf a majority of straight guys will let you do stuff with them (I mean as long as they’re on top, they will let you go down on them for example). So I’m trying to find a girl to use as bait for hot straight guys. I will ask you to believe that I’m not “low value,” I’m an attractive, fit guy and I’ve had pretty girls pursue me. This worked once with a girl I knew (she was a friend though, not a girlfriend), but the last girl I was with couldn’t be “steered” in this direction. But I don’t fit the example of the “cuckold” who can only get a girl to stay with him on these terms and “puts up” with her cheating. I want the girl to do it for my own purposes. I think that when the guy in such a relationship is not low value, you should look for a secret bi or homo reason why he’s doing it.

    Why don’t I just go for gay guys if I have bi impulses? Duh. Think about it.


    • Poor pervert trying to brag.


      • Have you ever been appreciated by a gay guy? I mean one who really loves the male physique? It’s not like with a girl where it’s about her or about her need for status. You would be worshiped like a god by a gay guy. But you will never know that. Why? Who knows.


      • One time an older homosexual gentleman was giving me a ride to work (in his Caddilac STS Northstar…) and while discussing something gay, he pointed out a guy walking and said “thats a gay guy”. When I asked how he knew, he replied: “cause he’s too good looking to be straight.”


      • An older gay man gave you a ride in his Cadillac and nothing happened?

        like when Clinton smoked pot but did not inhale…

        cool story Bro…


      • Canadian Friend
        An older gay man gave you a ride in his Cadillac and nothing happened?

        That my Canadian Friend, is the difference between a homosexual and a faggot.

        You’re welcome.


      • The difference is one owned a nice car the other did not.

        Did you tell him you tasted your own jizz?


    • on September 19, 2014 at 4:53 am haunted trilobite

      Thank you for introducing the love that doth not bear mentioning into the normal hetero community. You’re having your gay cake and getting normal folk to eat it too. Men of any sense should take note: once your special snowflake is broken in to the carousel she’s likely getting plowed by dicks that have been up multiple male arseholes.


    • on September 19, 2014 at 5:01 am haunted trilobite

      Local maniac’ s post was the best of this bunch of sordid debauchery. Things couldn’t sink any lower. Do any of you pause to consider where this rampant promiscuity leads to?


  55. Not going to waste too much time on this, but three points:
    1) Sounds like you’ve met a few people who fit a certain description and you’ve made a whole swath of generalizations based on that. Congrats.
    2) Saying anything “doesn’t exist” in blah blah blah society is implausible. Even if something is rare or an outlier, it likely exists somewhere. The problem with blanket declarations like that is you only need ONE case of something to exist, somewhere in a given society, to be proven wrong.
    3) I’m always amused at the assumption that people in open relationships must by default be uglier or less attractive that average. Fact: there are unattractive people in any relationship configuration and walks of life. The claim just doesn’t hold up, anecdotally or statistically, once you get out of the house.


  56. it made her feel owned, like valued property

    My women are mine – period. No other male gets to touch them. They are my “core” group – if they want other men – they can leave and then they can have anyone they want, but not me. That is the deal – if they are part of my core, they belong to me – body, mind and soul… If they aren’t they are casual f**ks and can be someone else’s GF or wife – that’s fine, but they are just that – casual f**ks to me. I don’t expect anything from them other than sex, and they get nothing from me other than sex. Most women fall into that category… Of course, I see those types when they fit into my schedule and are available. – they mean nothing to me and I expect to mean nothing to them. I actually never expect to see them again – although some of them make an effort to see me.

    Only the women in my “core” group get any consideration from me – and they pay for it by being available to me on my schedule, but I see them at least weekly – at present one on Sunday, Tuesday and Thursday (one is here now reading this – and doing everything she can to distract me – the little imp) and on major holidays – that’s why there is only 3 of them – I don’t have time for more. So what do they get out of the deal? Me, and that seems to be enough for them – and I really don’t care about their “objectives” – they serve my needs – and I guess I give them what they want and need. My only rule is they be under 25, attractive to me, and obey the rules. They also share the trait of having a low N – that isn’t a requirement, just seems to work out that way. Which is why I believe that only women with a low N (number of past lovers) are keepers…

    I have come to the conclusion that most women are a commodity either useful or not – it is that simple. Only the three in my core group, get more and are worth more… And I don’t share with other men – EVER… Women are different – more than one in my core group bring me other women for us to enjoy – and I don’t count that as “sharing” them… Yeah – it’s a male thing… Think of a pride of lions – one dominant male – period.

    I don’t understand any man that would put up with “his” woman being touched by another man. They are MINE and I would kill another man that touched them, before kicking the offending woman to the curb for dis-respecting me. Of course, they can leave anytime and then I have no claim on them. One has been with me for 3 years (she swears she’ll never leave willingly), another almost 2 years, and the one I’m seeing tonight is new – just started seeing her this summer. Time to leave – she is distracting me…

    (Oh, and any Dom that shares his sub with any other man is showing his contempt for her. He’ll ditch her soon enough…)


    • on September 18, 2014 at 7:14 pm gunslingergregi

      (one is here now reading this – and doing everything she can to distract me – the little imp)””””””’

      don’t do it
      its a trap


    • Just Saying

      My women are mine – period. No other male gets to touch them.

      When I go out to eat, my food is mine; but if you leave to use the rest room I might try something on your plate to see what it tastes like; and then put it back if I don’t like it.



      • I’m the same way… Any woman that is looking is on the menu – doesn’t mean that I’ll keep her, just nice to stay in practice. Most of the women with me have seen women kicked to the curb for such actions – so they know they will be history. There are always younger and prettier women in the wings – since that is how they moved into my “core” group – they know what will happen. That’s why I have it set up that way…


  57. on September 18, 2014 at 8:21 pm gunslingergregi

    They are MINE and I would kill another man that touched them, before kicking the offending woman to the curb for dis-respecting me.””””””

    so hold up you would kill a dude that touched them but just break up with them
    I see child support payments in your future


  58. […] The Ugly Reality Of Open Relationships | Chateau Heartiste […]


  59. The two men described here don’t seem to be doing too badly. The first man, were he in a monogamous relationship, would have just one ugly woman. Now he has two ugly women, so at least he’s got variety. The second man, were he to stick to monogamy, would probably be too unattractive to get any woman at all, but his willingness to share means that he gets half a woman (in the sense that he gets half her sexual attentions, as well as some preselection status from being in a relationship).

    In other words, polyamory seems to allow low-status people to punch slightly above their SMV and feel more desireable/enlightened/evolved than the rest of us. So they do get *something* out of it.


    • For a good eight or so year period, I got way hotter women swinging than otherwise. I’m not tall, and wasn’t doing well financially back then, two things that hot chicks didn’t have to consider when we found ourselves – intentionally or otherwise- laying down next to each other on mattresses in the group room.

      Plus, while I have had as swinging dates at least a half-dozen or so genuinely hot chicks, even the one time I swung with a fugly troll paid benefits, since – as just about any guy will agree – women look a lot better when they are willing to be a no-hassle pump and dump; on that occasion, two guys who were pumping a hot blonde who was on all fours signaled across the room for me to take over while they moved onto my beast of a date. She was fat, she was old, and she kinda smelled, but these fit, normal-looking guys didn’t care in their quest to plunge the depths of yet one more vagina.

      While I have moved on to transactional sex-on-demand due to the convenience and reliability, I still highly recommend swinging to any guy confident enough to know that even if another guy his girl is fucking is both better looking at better at fucking, she still almost certainly prefers you. Chicks are weird that way.

      That having been said, if you meet a hot chick you really like, don’t take a chick to a swingers club or party until at least after you’ve fucked her two or three times and bonded a little A couple of times I have found myself bordering on being a fourth-wheel by swinging on the second date. BUT don’t wait too long to get a chick to swing, either, or she’ll be less amenable than earlier on.


  60. […] I’m going to tell you something about so-called “open relationships” that you probably already suspected.  […]


  61. Interesting. You depict open marriage as ugly, and lambaste the fellow who shares a woman with other men. The only difference I see between that and hook-up culture is a small element of time — it’s just the difference between “sharing” and “has shared”.

    Interesting you see the ugliness in one and suppress your knowledge of the ugliness in the other.

    [CH: last i checked most womanizers were not (knowingly) concurrently sharing their lovers with other men, either in the present or in the past. but nice sophistic conflation. it might bedazzle the less attentive.]


  62. Not that straightforward, as everything in life..

    You probably know this guy :

    He is known to promote poly lifestyle. From what he says-a lot is good and useful stuff.There are more traces of alpha in his writings than in time wasting pieces of escapees from reality like roosh or alike…