The Five Stages Of Cougar Grief

Denial

“I’ve still got it, baby!”
“I’ve never looked or felt better.”
“These are the best years of my life.”
“30 is the new 20!” [editor’s note: actually, in woman years, 30 is the new 40]
“My sex drive is higher.”
“I will age gracefully.”
“I’ve really grown into my skin.”

Anger

“No self-respecting man dates some 20 year old floozy.”
“Men who date younger women can’t date women their own age.” [editor’s note: replace can’t with won’t]
“It’s the patriarchal misogynistic culture that devalues older women.”
“Who needs them!”
“Pigs!”

Bargaining

“Once I apply this new tangerine-emu oil antioxidant exfoliating facial cream predigested and squeezed through the anus of a bird of paradise, I’ll look ten years younger.”
“I’ve got a great personality.” [editor’s note: no, you don’t]

Depression

“Wow, I guess it’s all over. I’ll never find a man now.”
“It’s just me and you, Fluffy. Come here, mommy needs a kitty cuddle.”

Acceptance

“Maybe settling isn’t so bad. That homeless guy outside Whole Foods has nice hair.”

***

I suppose I should feel guilty for robbing so many single older women of exciting and fulfilling dating lives and leaving them stranded in favor of dating younger women, but then I squeeze that supple flesh and smell that enticing natural aroma and I remember why I don’t.

You will too.





Comments


  1. Have Roissy and Gannon ever been seen in the same place at the same time? Just wondering.

    Like


  2. “Men who date younger women can’t date women their own age.”

    I was seeing a hot little 18 year old, and she told a tale about how her best friend had met this guy at a concert who was 26. When the girl’s mother found out that was who she was seeing now, she remarked those words. I thought, somewhere out there is a divorced middle age woman unleashing her bitterness on her teen daughter. I laughed, saying “Or maybe they’re just hotter.”

    Like


  3. Oh man, you’re being too harsh on the cougars. I had some amount of practice with them when I was younger. I’ve moved to greener pastures, but I remember the times 15 years ago – when I could not bang something hot, I was glad to settle for something… still warm. I think the world needs cougars.

    Like


  4. A 50-year old orange cougar came at me hard in the gym last week. I barely got out alive. I think one of the worst legacies of Sex and the City is that it made Cougars bolder than any other time in history. Cougars almost feel entitled to what’s out of their league.

    By the way, check out the cougar theme song. Click here and choose the song “Cougars”

    http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=82209354

    Like


  5. Roissy, my great hope for you is that you fall madly in love with some young beauty, marry her, and have three brilliant and beautiful daughters. You will spend the rest of your life worrying about what kind of men they might attract. They will laugh at you (lovingly, no doubt) and you will find yourself forced to learn humility and patience.

    Clio

    Like


  6. “I suppose I should feel guilty for robbing so many single older women of exciting and fulfilling dating lives and leaving them stranded in favor of dating younger women,”

    You should feel very guilty.. Yesss..

    Or…

    I mutual time spent together was just that? And sex was a shared beautiful moment? Of course, sorry, totally forgot about the agenda that women have…

    Sex for sex’s sake, and then find some guy who will take up the slack… (some guy she did not think twice about wasting his youth getting rejected)

    Btw, for the ones thinking of flaming or shaming me, I am close to the first group than the second, sucker group.

    “Men who date younger women can’t date women their own age.”

    Why should I trade in the 21 year old perky body with a friendly smile for some 30 year old used up, getting old, past her prime woman with shit loads of baggage and a banging biological clock???

    I accept the insult, and cherish it.

    Like


  7. What age qualifies a cougar? I have met several women in the 29-34 age rang who still look stunning. Although, I am sure they took very good care of themselves.

    I was at a martini bar about a month ago and sat down to chat with 3 seemingly nice cougs. The discussion steered towards what women really want from men.

    I stated, in my drunken stupor, that all a woman really wants is a man that will bend her over, smack her ass and pull her hair. The fatty of the trio was appalled by my crude statement. I could read in the other two’s eyes that they wanted me to do just that to both of them.

    Unfortunately chick loyalty compelled them to stand up and walk away. I promptly went inside, pulled a girl to the dance floor, dipped her, pulled her hair and got a kiss close.

    The difference between what women say and how they actually act/react still boggles my mind. Even though I have found some logic behind it.

    Like


  8. T.

    Gym cougars are the worst son!!!! For some reason the fact that they work out and have better bodies than most other cougars makes them feel they can handle a younger stud… bitch please

    Like


  9. When I was a teenager, cougars played an instrumental role in my sex education especially on the kinkier side of things that neither I nor any of the girls I dated had experience with. That is if we classify 30 year old women as cougars but those were invaluable experiences. I suppose that’s why I don’t despise them as much but like most things you grow out of it and a cougar wouldn’t have a shot in a million light years now. Of course I have to keep in mind that many of your acolytes had as much success in their youth getting laid as a leper hermit in the Amazon living off of bat guano so I guess the hate is understandable. That hate stemming from years of inexperience with women when guys are at their most virile and when ‘youz allz grownz up’ the cougars are what’s accessible but its the young one’s you always wanted that you couldn’t get.

    Like


  10. “Once I apply this new tangerine-emu oil antioxidant exfoliating facial cream predigested and squeezed through the anus of a bird of paradise, I’ll look ten years younger.”

    Haha!

    That stuff works awesome though. I’m actually 62 years old.

    Like


  11. I think we need to define cougar for this article.

    A) a single woman over the age of 40? Any woman over the age of 40?
    B) relative to the male? IE: 10 years older than myself = cougar?
    C) Can a cougar also be a milf if she’s taken care of herself?

    On a side note I took home my first “cougar” at age 37 3 weeks ago, who was over 10 years older than me. Very true, her flesh just wasn’t as supple, stomach just wasn’t as tight, and aroma was of her light cigarette addiction (seemingly to help her depression).

    She had 2 kids, 1 of which was 7 years younger than me. She just didn’t feel as tight as she should have. Not the hole, it was the insides, like banging a balloon. It took alot of focus on my last lay of age 26 to cum.

    In her defense though, she was just happy to be getting laid. I fingered her, which turned into a blowjob, which before I could say cat in a hat turned into unprotected sex. Twice in an hour and 1/2. With a blowjob in between to get my hard again. Told me she hadn’t be laid in 6 months! Apparently alot of dudes from match.com she had gone home with couldn’t get it up. Roissy, I think we need an article on the advent of viagra, and I can’t think of anyone better than you to write it.

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  12. #5 Clio
    Roissy, my great hope for you is that you fall madly in love with some young beauty, marry her, and have three brilliant and beautiful daughters. You will spend the rest of your life worrying about what kind of men they might attract.

    It’s more amusing to imagine his hypothetical kids turning out like this:

    1. An attractive but shallow daughter who’s completely susceptible to game.

    2. A homely but intelligent daughter for whom he has to mask his contempt.

    3. A flamingly gay son.

    Like


  13. It would be pretty funny if a bird of paradise could squeeze anything out of its anus… seeing as how it’s a flower.

    Like


  14. Confident women don’t apologize for their age, whatever it may be. They understand life offers plenty of opportunities at every age, and have no desire to be either older nor younger.

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  15. I date across the spectrum of 25 to 45, and at a physical level, the world is just chock full of older women who are physically stunning. I will grant that there are equally plenty of women who decline precipitously as they pass the big 3-Oh, but this blanket statement regarding the cougars doesn’t fly.

    If child-bearing was a non-issue, I would probably be looking for one of these stunning MILF’s in their late 30’s.

    Anyway, YMMV may vary, but I suspect this has more to do with the young wanting to be around the young (“Ewww, you’re old”) attitudes. As if any the young studs around here are never going to age… It will be amusing to visit the great-grandchild of this blog, Roissy in [insert city for your amusement], Single Again, when he is pushing 40 and see what he’s thinking.

    Like


  16. on August 5, 2008 at 3:31 pm Usually Lurking

    They will laugh at you (lovingly, no doubt) and you will find yourself forced to learn humility and patience.

    The “they” that are laughing at him will surely include his wife, wanting to be in on the fun.

    In a fit of rage, he will then kill his gay son. Flame On!

    Like


  17. Reggie, I was trying to wish Roissy an unmalicious misfortune. You know, poetic justice, but with no actual bad luck involved. I thought it was more elevated, somehow.

    Clio

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  18. Roissy, my great hope for you is that you fall madly in love with some young beauty

    To love is to choose to love. First love is often so powerful, partly because that choice was made without much prior knowledge or basis of comparison. I doubt Roissy will love as openly and with as much fervor as you prescribe — that choice to “fall madly in love” — because it involves a certain degree of youthful, blind ignorance and loss of self-control.

    My first love was madness, whereas my subsequent one was more calculated. My head was cooler, and my heart colder, less stirred to feelings of imminent and dire passion. I’m not sure if it is wise (though it is possible) to go back to the kind of love tinged with insanity. It involves the willingness to risk everything, and is perhaps ultimately self-destructive…but nothing is more fun than self-destruction.

    marry her, and have three brilliant and beautiful daughters. You will spend the rest of your life worrying about what kind of men they might attract.

    Aging brings people to a fount of wisdom through experience. It is a bitter potion to swallow, but good medicine nonetheless. Some people choose not to do so as they age, and it is their choice to make.

    Children change us, though to what degree is again a choice. Parental love, like other forms of human emotions, is not perfect. And Clio, if a man cannot or will not respect his woman or his wife, he is unlikely to be a good father to his children. My father was not good to his first wife, my mother, or his first born child, me.

    I find it ironic that karma brought him two daughters when for his entire life, he wanted nothing more than a son. I sometimes wonder if the child that my mother aborted, during the time he was divorcing her, would have been a boy. I also wonder if he is a better father now to his second daughter, who is over twenty years younger than me.

    As for me, I am with a man whom I know will cherish his own children, and who will cherish me even when I age. That’s all I can ask for, really.

    Like


  19. 7. What age qualifies a cougar? and
    11. A) a single woman over the age of 40? Any woman over the age of 40?
    B) relative to the male? IE: 10 years older than myself = cougar?

    It’s less about age than approach.

    If I’m not mistaken, the term “cougar”, at least originally, was a rather specific concept: it applied only to a subset of older women (age 50+) who went out on the prowl, specifically for much younger men, specifically for the purpose of having sex.

    It’s not just any woman over 30, nor any woman who date a guy who’s younger than she is, although I see the term being used this way with increasing frequency. What people mean by “older women” is a pretty wide variable, too.

    Like


  20. On a side note I took home my first “cougar” at age 37 3 weeks ago, who was over 10 years older than me … I fingered her, which turned into a blowjob, which before I could say cat in a hat turned into unprotected sex. Twice in an hour and 1/2.

    When the process server comes to your door with the paternity suit papers, please be polite. He’s just doing his job.

    Like


  21. I agree that “sex drive does go up” but all the other statements…I’d like someone to stick a fork in my eye if I ever say anything like that.

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  22. Women who give a shit about attracting someone like the men on this board probably do feel as bad about aging as you describe. (What is the alternative again? Would you rather we just died off at 25?) But your equation of “I can give some moron a boner” with “I have self worth” is totally skewing your perceptions.

    Women exist entirely separate from your erection. I swear. It is a documented truth that you cannot seem to accept. Why? You’ve never met a woman who both wasn’t 25 and didn’t give a shit about you? Oh wait, you have and you decided she was some sort of unnatural castrating bitch, right?

    Like


  23. Dang Roissy, why so much hate for teh Milfs/cougars?

    Send all Terri Hatcher-esque and Selma Hayek look-a-like cougars you don’t want my way! KTHXBAI.

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  24. Hope, if you read between the lines of Roissy’s posts, it’s clear he has a romantic streak, which I think he’s also admitted to in so many words. I suspect he’s quite capable of falling in love, but his unfortunate habits might defeat him before it amounts to anything.

    clio

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  25. stone:
    I think the world needs cougars.

    the world (i.e. dudes on the prowl for easy prey) needs the loose sexual favors of cougars. but what it doesn’t need, judging by the cougars’ infinite howls of bitter lament, is their love.

    recall the basic formulation: it’s a simple matter for women to get sex, but it’s much harder for them to snag love and commitment. especially when most men are pushing them aside to reach for the later expiration date gallons of boob milk at the back of the shelf.

    clio poked:
    You will spend the rest of your life worrying about what kind of men they might attract.

    any father would be negligent not to worry about who his daughters date. it’s evolution!

    They will laugh at you (lovingly, no doubt) and you will find yourself forced to learn humility and patience.

    my firm yet loving patriarchal presence and kingly testosterone aura would ensure as best as can be ensured that any daughters i may have would choose the right men more often than the wrong men.
    or: sluts arise from the ashes of broken families or weak beta fathers.
    i know this from experience. heh.

    nate:
    A) a single woman over the age of 40? Any woman over the age of 40?

    for the average cheesy poof eating, tv vegetating, obese american woman, cougarhood starts as early as 27. sad but true.
    for SATC women in the hip urban enclaves who won’t admit it out loud but nonetheless understand what men truly want and act to satisfy that male preference by keeping in shape, the onset of cougarhood is delayed *on average* until about 36 or so.
    of course, there are exceptions. i plan to target those exceptions when the time comes.

    B) relative to the male? IE: 10 years older than myself = cougar?

    no. the man’s age is only tangentially related to cougar status. a 20 year old man banging a hot 30 year old woman who is pursued by many male suitors is not officially a cougar chaser. similarly, a 60 year old player dumping a fuck in a 40 year old cougar is not magically tricking himself into enjoying the fertile fruits of a young woman in her prime. although you could say he is doing better than most of his male peers, so relative to what he could normally get, he’s doing alright. i suspect most 60 year old men would be happy to trade sex with their 60 year old wives for a 40 year old mistress.

    what matters for officially designated cougarhood is:

    1. the woman’s age in appearance (30 – 45 depending on upkeep)

    2. her utter and complete abandonment of the hard-to-get strategy she used to play back in those halcyon days when men were knocking down her door.

    3. her tradeoff of love and commitment with a man older than herself for easy but ultimately unfulfilling pump and dumps by younger men who don’t give a crap about her beyond the underlubricated friction her gaping hole can muster.

    reggie:
    3. A flamingly gay son.

    looking for recruits?

    lexi:
    It would be pretty funny if a bird of paradise could squeeze anything out of its anus… seeing as how it’s a flower.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bird_of_paradise

    never question me again.

    ****

    in other news, it’s funny how the shibboleths and pretty lies i listed in this post that women often tell themselves to placate their egos WOULDN’T BE NECESSARY if it wasn’t universally acknowledged on some deep dark level that a woman aging out of her youthful beauty is a horrible tragedy.

    after all, you don’t see hot 21 year old babes trying to convince themselves that 21 is better than 40 in so many undefinably vague ways.
    she already knows it is.

    Like


  26. If I’m not mistaken, the term “cougar”, at least originally, was a rather specific concept: it applied only to a subset of older women (age 50+) who went out on the prowl, specifically for much younger men, specifically for the purpose of having sex.
    It’s not just any woman over 30, nor any woman who date a guy who’s younger than she is, although I see the term being used this way with increasing frequency.

    It’s similar to the way MILF is now being used to describe any sexually attractive woman who has a child, no matter how young she might be. MILF is a relative term that requires an age gap between the user of the term and its object. For a woman to be a MILF from your perspective she should be at least 15 or 20 years older than you are, old enough to be the mother of one of your contemporaries. As with cougar, however, the original meaning has been diluted.

    Like


  27. on August 5, 2008 at 4:26 pm Usually Lurking

    after all, you don’t see hot 21 year old babes trying to convince themselves that 21 is better than 40 in so many undefinably vague ways.

    One of the things that is interesting about this is that it seems that adults have lost much power and influence that they once had.

    For instance, you can see how much influence older women (Mothers and, esp., Mothers-In-Law) had on younger women in their charge. I am speaking about societies that have yet to industrialize.

    For one, the young women are basically banned from being sluts. And two, once they marry, their Mother in Law becomes the person that orders her aound most of the time, not her husband.

    Nowadays, you are more likely to see a mother harassing her daughter than giving her actual orders that will be followed.

    So, with that loss of power, and prestige, the 21 year old is now living a much better life. In the past, she would get attention from suitors (good), but would have to wait before she had much say in things (bad).

    Like


  28. dizzy emerged from her gollum cave:
    (What is the alternative again? Would you rather we just died off at 25?)

    again with the strawmen. 25 is still young.
    and you wonder why my hate for you burns so brightly?
    but i don’t want you to die. for illustrative purposes, i need you around.
    you… complete me.

    But your equation of “I can give some moron a boner” with “I have self worth” is totally skewing your perceptions.

    you wanna argue my points or what erupts from your fevered feminazi brain?
    inspiring boners matters to your worth in the SEXUAL market. i’m sure you can find some worth in yourself to other clacking aging harpies in the man-hate circle diddle meetings you probably attend in the cat shelter every sunday afternoon.
    and btw, it’s not my equation. it’s the law laid down by the god of biomechanics.
    and there’s no escape from the long arm of that sonofabitch.

    Women exist entirely separate from your erection.

    so do ameoba. what’s your point, sparky?

    It is a documented truth that you cannot seem to accept.

    since we’re on the subject of not accepting truths…

    You’ve never met a woman who both wasn’t 25 and didn’t give a shit about you?

    rumor has it there are a couple hot babes in the world who haven’t yet succumbed to my devilish charms.

    Oh wait, you have and you decided she was some sort of unnatural castrating bitch, right?

    speaking from experience?

    Like


  29. I suspect he’s quite capable of falling in love, but his unfortunate habits might defeat him before it amounts to anything.

    Of course he can fall in love. I merely said “I doubt Roissy will love as openly and with as much fervor as you prescribe.” The difference, though subtle, is there. His conscious schemes, machinations and manipulations will likely make his love less ardent, less fiery and less extreme.

    Being “in love” is a silly semantic phrase anyway, more descriptive of a temporary state of romantic arousal rather than genuine emotion. I described my own experience with falling in love again, with foreknowledge of what the experience was like — it simply is different. But the real glow and beauty of love itself does not dim with the passage of time. It is a constant.

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  30. 26: As with cougar, however, the original meaning has been diluted.

    I just find it kind of a shame that cougar has been so generalized. It renders the word too vague to really be useful and, more detrimentally, does aways with the predation angle which was the point behind it being coined in the first place.

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  31. I stated, in my drunken stupor, that all a woman really wants is a man that will bend her over, smack her ass and pull her hair.

    And since I refuse to do that for various reasons, I’ll simply accept staying single.

    Like


  32. on August 5, 2008 at 5:56 pm Usually Lurking

    “No self-respecting man dates some 20 year old floozy.”

    Back in, oh, 1998 or so, iVillage ran a a short story about Guys preferring to date younger women, the bastards . (Think: 45 year old guy dating a 25 year old girl). Along with the story they provided a forum for the young women to “sound off”. Well, they had hundreds of replies and, as far as I could tell, 85% were very much in favor of dating an older man (“he is so patient”, “no drama”, “he is not a jerk”, “he loves me for me”, “his friends are not assholes”, “he encourages me to pursue my dreams”, etc), with only about 5% being negative.

    This was obviously NOT what iVillage was wanting to hear.

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  33. This was obviously NOT what iVillage was wanting to hear.

    I wonder if there’s a pool of young men complaining about the older men stealing the women? At certain moments, I wonder if an older male is just a proxy for certain alpha male behaviours.

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  34. I wonder if there’s a pool of young men complaining about the older men stealing the women?

    That’s a good question. I’ve talked here before about how the dating disparity is driven by guys 18-45 years old going after girls 18-27 years old. After 30, most women are married, and the unmarried/divorced ones tend to date a lot less. Divorced guys plunge right back in.

    And yet, when I was younger, I never saw older guys as a threat. Completely off my radar. Why was that? At 22, I was trying (and somewhat succeeding, when you count drunken make-outs) with a hot 19-year-old girl. She was on-an-off dating a 35-year old guy, but he was completely off my radar. Instead, I saw this other kid my own age as my main rival.

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  35. And yet, when I was younger, I never saw older guys as a threat.

    To a certain extent, I always saw the older men as creeps and weirdos who were preying on younger women due to their immaturity, but I always viewed the guido-types at community college as the losers who were “stealing” all of the hot white girls. Interestingly, at the same time, I had two sixteen year old girls who were interested in me, and I blew both of them off despite the fact that one of the girls had nails because I didn’t want to be a loser who preyed on younger girls. At the same time, I would always make fun of my female friends’ choice in older men for boyfriends.

    As one can tell, I’m fixated on maintaining some bizzare theory that everybody must be in the same exact age group…

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  36. Biologicaly speaking, women over 35 are supposed to be grandmothers and helping their daughters start their own families, and should have been out the dating market for a long time.

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  37. What are Guidos? Just asking, because it sounds like you mean “eye-talian” types like John Travolta and his crew in Saturday Night Fever. They weren’t part of the scene when I was 18-22 in suburban Metro DC area in late 80s / early 90s.

    Over here, the top of the dating pyramid was Waspy preppie types who wore Oakleys, drove Jeeps, and listened to alternative rock on HFS (now a Spanish language station)

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  38. Biologicaly speaking, women over 35 are supposed to be grandmothers and helping their daughters start their own families, and should have been out the dating market for a long time.

    Yes, but apparently, thanks to various changes, Westerners now die at the age of 75, not 55 so they need to fill out the rest of their lives doing something fun…

    Like


  39. I do think a tighter definition of a cougar is in order. Is a 38 year old dating a 30 year old man a cougar? Not to my mind. Even a ten year spread, given how well many urban woman maintain themselves these days is border line. I’m consistently shocked, when clothed, how young woman in their late thirties look these days relative to their real age.

    On the other hand a 38 year old chasing 22 year old for nothing more than low commitment sex is clearily a cougar.

    But the stereotypical cougar: Older, lot’s of leopard print, too much make up, virginia slim dangling from her lips is just a joke now. Cougars can be very an urbane, older woman seeking the thrill of younger sex. They can be fashionable, fit, and pretty cool.

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  40. I do think a tighter definition of a cougar is in order. Is a 38 year old dating a 30 year old man a cougar? Not to my mind. Even a ten year spread, given how well many urban woman maintain themselves these days is border line. I’m consistently shocked, when clothed, how young woman in their late thirties look these days relative to their real age.

    On the other hand a 38 year old chasing 22 year old for nothing more than low commitment sex is clearily a cougar.

    But the stereotypical cougar: Older, lot’s of leopard print, too much make up, virginia slim dangling from her lips is just a joke now. Cougars can be an urbane, older woman seeking the thrill of younger sex. They can be fashionable, fit, and pretty cool.

    Like


  41. Well DA, its a mixed bag. Some girls like dating older men, others don’t. I’d say less than half of most girls under 25 like dating a guy that is significantly older, like 10+ years. From experience I suspect most women like to feel they share some cultural commonalities of which age would assist but physical attraction is a large part of this too. For women that prefer older men, physical attraction is sometimes subordinated, usually because the man has very high status as compensation. For example, I know a couple with a 50+ year age gap. She is a model hot half asian half white girl in her mid twenties and her boyfriend is an obsenely wealthy seventy year old that almost died of cancer. The girl really is a stunner and I’m told she is head over heels in love with the guy. However, don’t ask me how a seventy year old man can keep up with a girl in her twenties.

    Sidenote: I heard they got rejected by a co-op board recently because members thought their age difference was a distraction.

    side sidenote: I have it on good authority the chick is drowning in anti-depressents so one wonders whether she has confronted the reality of her guilded cage.

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  42. @40

    A cougar, simply put, is an older woman who AGGRESSIVELY seeks sex INDISCRIMINATELY, which often is painfully obviously (and painful to watch). They compensate their fading looks with a significant ease to bed.

    Like


  43. on August 5, 2008 at 6:49 pm trying again

    @40

    A cougar, simply put, is an older woman who AGGRESSIVELY seeks sex INDISCRIMINATELY, which often is painfully obviously (and painful to watch). They compensate their fading looks with a significant ease to bed.

    Like


  44. on August 5, 2008 at 6:51 pm trying again

    DF – care to post google pictures of this model chic please?

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  45. What are Guidos? Just asking, because it sounds like you mean “eye-talian” types like John Travolta and his crew in Saturday Night Fever.

    Yes, I’m referring to their modern equivalents that seem to populate the non-Jewish areas of the NYC Metro area. Not all Italians are guidos, but other white ethnicities seem to have their own guido-esque population.

    I used to attend community college with these guys, and they’d just sit around doing nothing, and they’d attract girls with their high end luxury cars and their lifestyle of clubbing, shopping, and taking drugs. The girls who didn’t fall for their charms were the average looking girls of some intelligence who I never personally found attractive in a sexual context.

    As I like to say, the guido women can stay, but the men need to go away. 🙂

    Like


  46. Remember… some time ago I said this:

    When you decide to live in perpetual adolescence, you also pay a price. There’s always a price to pay.

    The most obvious price is that you must live forever within the vicious dictates of the junior high school clique.

    While I enjoy Roissy’s site, it is one of the enforcement divisions of the junior high school clique. Roissy is the meanest, hippiest guy in junior high.

    The adult world is much better. I can’t even begin to tell you how, because it cannot be systematized into something quite as simple as the 12 Rules for Getting Pussy.

    As this site becomes increasingly bitter, vicious and obsessed with revenge, you should be able to see the price you pay for perpetual adolescence.

    Roissy’s right. The women chose this. Men, you should be smarter than to devolve along with the game. Your role is to be wiser. So, there’s plenty of blame to go around.

    Like


  47. A cougar, simply put, is an older woman who AGGRESSIVELY seeks sex INDISCRIMINATELY, which often is painfully obviously (and painful to watch). They compensate their fading looks with a significant ease to bed.

    Admittedly, while a cougar may be out for a long-term relationship, I’d rather have a hot cougar for a sex partner than most of the girls that I see on a daily basis…

    Like


  48. PA #37, Guidos are usually proles of Italian decent. Working class trashy poorly educated with rather low intelligence. Some believe they are the earliest forms of the now ubiquitous douchebag.

    Like


  49. #44, nope. there is plenty of porn for you to jerk to elsewhere on the net.

    Like


  50. i suspect most 60 year old men would be happy to trade sex with their 60 year old wives for a 40 year old mistress.

    And I suspect that the average 40-year-old woman, at least one who’s still fit and attractive, would sooner develop an intimate relationship with a cucumber than let the typical 60-year-old man nail her. Why, he’d probably die on top of her in mid-thrust. Most men’s bodies go physically right down the toilet soon after 30, and by age 60 they’ve turned into such double-chinned wheezing marshmallows that they can’t see their d*cks without use of a mirror. And this isn’t counting the disturbingly high percentage of men who are stinking up a coffin by age 60.

    Like


  51. Confident women don’t apologize for their age, whatever it may be.

    Yeah, self-delusion fuels confidence (or so I hear).

    Proof that she knows deep down that she doesn’t “still got it” — how often does she change her profile picture for anything, match.com, facebook (shudder), etc.? High school and college chicks tend to change them every couple of weeks, no planning required: they’re going to look good no matter what. For the cougar, she has to haul in a special effects team to get *that one good picture* which will stay on the site forever.

    PYTs also make a sport of pointing out their flaws. “Omigod the upper eyelashes on my right eye are like soooo hideous today!!!!!” Bragging out loud about their looks or appeal will get them shunned by 99% of their female peers. A cougar doing so doesn’t get told to shut up for being annoying but instead receives applause from her peers for “being confident” and “knowing what she wants.”

    Like


  52. And I suspect that the average 40-year-old woman, at least one who’s still fit and attractive, would sooner develop an intimate relationship with a cucumber than let the typical 60-year-old man nail her. Why, he’d probably die on top of her in mid-thrust. Most men’s bodies go physically right down the toilet soon after 30, and by age 60 they’ve turned into such double-chinned wheezing marshmallows that they can’t see their d*cks without use of a mirror. And this isn’t counting the disturbingly high percentage of men who are stinking up a coffin by age 60.

    sure, but none of what you wrote detracts from my point.
    anyhow, in the realm of aging it’s better to be a man than a woman. men retain their sexual market value a lot longer than women thanks to women’s preferences encompassing a lot more than a man’s physical attributes.

    Like


  53. on August 5, 2008 at 7:28 pm Kick a Bitch

    LMFAO @ the “cat shelter” comment…

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

    Like


  54. Sometimes I wonder why Peter posts here. I enjoy some of his posts, but I believe he would be much happier over at the Hugo Schwyzer blog. And by the way, Gannon is not Roissy’s alterego, but it pleases me that you perceive that my thoughts are as cunning and sarcastic as his.
    On your comment however is that a man’s fire shines much brighter much longer than a woman’s, but at the end of his life it turns off faster: or in simpler words: men retain much more vitality than women until they are around 60, but then decline very fast. Women on the other hand start drying uo slowly at 27, its a long, continuous process.

    “Would you rather we just died off at 25?”
    A smart woman at that age would have bonded with a man around 10 years older and already born him two children. Really Dizzy, this might be your last chance to find hapiness and have some nice babies. Don´t wait any longer…

    Like


  55. on August 5, 2008 at 7:38 pm Gunslingergregi

    Ok got to throw some in on this. My 61 year old buddy is still supporting two housholds one in china and one in the Dubai. He still is young in the mind. Been through a shitload of life experience. People only have to grow old and die like that in America lol. In other parts of the world it is ok as long as they can support the families. Called freedom and respect for a lifes work. Other 62 old guy I know has another baby on the way in Kenya. Another has a baby on the way in Thailand lol
    Just environments that are killing the guys more than likely. All of them have been through horrable divorces and lost most of thier stuff which was probably the catalyst to them coming out here. Which I guess in a way the divorces set them free to persure dreams again. Maybe the guys getting creamed in the divorce ain’t that bad off after all. What if they didn’t get divorced what would their life be like?

    Like


  56. Sometimes I wonder why Peter posts here.

    Because it’s fun. Also, I can go on all I want about my fetish without having to worry that doing so is inappropriate … as nothing is inappropriate here!

    Like


  57. in the realm of aging it’s better to be a man than a woman. men retain their sexual market value a lot longer than women thanks to women’s preferences encompassing a lot more than a man’s physical attributes.

    Yes, women’s value may decline in this area more quickly than men’s, however; they both still decline. And a lot of men don’t have much to begin with. In the realm of the sexual market in general – it’s better to be a woman. You can have the golden years.

    Also, if what you state is true – that this all in thanks to women’s preferences encompassing a lot more than a man’s physical attributes, then why would cougars, defined as older women aggressively and indiscriminately chasing younger men, even exist?

    Like


  58. anybody, man or woman, can get better with age if they play to their strengths.

    if men can continue to aquire experience and the confidence that comes with it, there will be plenty of women, both their own age and younger, who are interested.

    and as long as women realize that they can’t play the same cockteasing games at 32 as they did at 22, they should be able to call on their earned experience and wisdom to make themselves happy.

    keep making money, don’t try to play kids games, and don’t get completely out of shape and there’s no reason why life can’t keep getting better through your 30s and 40s.

    Like


  59. on August 5, 2008 at 8:13 pm Gunslingergregi

    Brandy
    Those older guys I mentioned that have kids not with cougars. I may be with an older woman though so umm yea I will probably need to supplement for kids with younger woman.

    brandy said not much to begin with.

    The thing is it doesn’t take much to have the accoutrements of some success. for 17,538 you get:

    Stainless Steel w/Black Kenmore 26.0 cu. ft. Side-By-Side Refrigerator
    Sears item #04654703000 Mfr. model #54703 p# 999.98 999.88
    • Hand Made in North Carolina, USA• Select Kiln Dried Hardwood Frames• Stress Points Are Double Wood Doweled With Reinforced Corner Blocks• Patented No-Sag Tempered Steel Suspension System• Seat Foam: Ultra Cell 2 lbs Foam, Double Wrapped In Bonded Fiber• Top Grain Full Aniline Dyed Leather 2 couches times 1899= 3798 3798
    Protron 37 in. LCD TV/HDTV Monitor 1699.99
    Sears item #05771925000 Mfr. model #PLTV37C-B 1699.99
    Platinum Maytag Neptune® 3.8 cu. ft. Super Size Capacity Plus Front Load Washer 1399.99
    Sears item #02602015000 Mfr. model #MAH9700AWM
    White Kenmore 6.5 cu. ft. Super Capacity Electric Dryer 359.99 Sears item #02666742000 Mfr. model #66742 price 1759.98 1759.98
    The Lifestyle® 18 II DVD home entertainment system 1599 1599
    12 person dish set 1753 1753
    lomonosovusa
    Dimension E310 – P4 1058 1058
    tea set 22k gold 390 390
    lomonosovusa
    bellavista 6 4480

    Total Household indo 17,538
    Total Household amer 17,538
    mustang 6cyl 13,040
    car indo 17,045
    house indo 17,045
    house amer 50,000

    total 132,206

    Big whoop anyone can have that with some minimal work.
    What’s next?

    Like


  60. on August 5, 2008 at 8:16 pm Gunslingergregi

    oh yea that was a jakuzzi at 4480 a must have lol

    Like


  61. on August 5, 2008 at 8:22 pm Gunslingergregi

    To go from poor to having most things doesn’t take much time. To go from poor to having most things doesn’t take special people it just takes a willingness on the part of almost any man with almost any woman to work together. After you get the material crap you can maybe move on.

    Like


  62. smell that enticing natural aroma

    And we know what part of a woman’s body has especially wondeful aromas. Flavors too.

    Like


  63. Gunslingergregi,

    I’m having trouble following your post. Can you explain?

    And just to be clear, my comment is a direct response to Roissy @51, and we are speaking purely in terms of SEXUAL MARKET VALUE. Personally I think that members of both genders have more to offer in a committed long term relationship and assesing who is getting the better deal on that aspect alone is a miscalculation.

    Like


  64. Fuck, I copied from the wrong notepad window…

    What are Guidos?

    Essentially, the modern day versions of the John Travolta types that you described. They’re usually Italian, but you’ll find other white ethnic and white Latinos in that group as well. I had a longer post to describe their traits, but it’s stuck in moderation hell.

    I’d say less than half of most girls under 25 like dating a guy that is significantly older, like 10+ years.

    Most of my female friends were of differing age ranges, and they all dated guys who ranged from two to five years older with 12 years being the widest gap. While for them, they didn’t mind the age difference, and they found older men to be more mature than the men of their age. In contrast, I presumed such relationships were simply signs of weak pathetic men preying on young, naive women.

    Interestingly, there is the possibility that a girl at work who is 3 years older than me thinks I’m attractive (for some bizzare reason). For some reason, men seem to think she’s younger than her real age, and she’s always attracting younger men for some reason. Of course, like a good beta, I’ve come up with numerous reasons as to why I shouldn’t bang her and age is one of them…

    A smart woman at that age would have bonded with a man around 10 years older and already born him two children.

    Which makes her useless and sexless for the husband.

    Really Dizzy, this might be your last chance to find hapiness and have some nice babies.

    Gannon, you do realize that Dizzy may be happy in her current state without children and a loser beta husband as a source of discontent. Given the stress of raising children, it’s rather understandable as to why so many people put it off until they’re older.

    Like


  65. [email protected] – Agreed.

    According to Roissy and Gannon, an American women’s choices are:

    Marry young and have children with a beta you don’t love or a significantly older alpha who you will disgust you with his old age spots and sag.

    Like


  66. on August 5, 2008 at 8:41 pm Comment_Thomas

    *****
    The adult world is much better. I can’t even begin to tell you how, because it cannot be systematized into something quite as simple as the 12 Rules for Getting Pussy.

    As this site becomes increasingly bitter, vicious and obsessed with revenge, you should be able to see the price you pay for perpetual adolescence.
    *****
    Whose “adult” world? The Adult world of two hundred years ago, or the “adult” world of sonny desperately finding a mommy substitute in his wife, who then rules him as mommy did? How exactly is that “adult”?

    Like


  67. whoops, trigger happy.

    alternate choice:
    Become a cougar at 27.

    If I lived in Roissy’s world, I’d opt for the alternate choice. Maybe I’d marry the beta. But I certainly wouldn’t go for the old balls. Even if he had a 5 year plan.

    Like


  68. on August 5, 2008 at 8:49 pm Gunslingergregi

    Thomas I think he refers to the adult world of telling you where you can and cannot smoke. You know keeps you safe from every little thing for th children.

    Like


  69. on August 5, 2008 at 8:50 pm Usually Lurking

    Brandy, the point that is made most often here is that when girls set themselves up to be only had by Alphas, they will be ultimately disappointed (on average).

    Whereas, if she hooks up with some sweet guy (i.e. “Beta”), then she can have the 2 kids, dog and picket fence.

    But most girls that are not obese do not realize the kind of shit-testing and status-whoring that they employ that effectively weed out the nice guys (again, “Betas”).

    And, if you are a regular visitor, you realize that we pull no punches for the guys that spend all their time mastering WarCraft instead of making themselves a little more appealing to non-obese girls.

    side-note: I am sure that PA can say more about this, but, one place where you can find a plethora of Alphas that are likely to settle down and, most likely, be faithful is in the military. Although, according to The Atlantic, even the Army has recently been dealing with certifiable pussys.

    Like


  70. on August 5, 2008 at 9:04 pm Gunslingergregi

    Yea brandy only in the real world where people are just equal and there are no laws to make them equal do woman go for the older gentleman. Although going to the dating sites in america looks like some stiff competition from foreign woman on there. Did you see the asian pics they are all in shape. Check the russian chicks as well in shape for the most part. Or hell any of the foreign chicks on there. Watch as the dynamic changes on that. Lot of desperate woman with child in the americas, guess getting divorced for them isn’t going to be as pretty as for the men. What the hell do woman do when they only had one kid to begin with and that kid leaves to go work somewhere far far away. Where do they find meaning some shit job “career”?

    Like


  71. on August 5, 2008 at 9:07 pm Gunslingergregi

    ok ok I will admit I want the attention of being called out on the 5 post thing too. I was a little jealous. Have a good night people. This will all get resolved somehow. Life goes on until you die.

    Like


  72. brandy sniffed:
    Also, if what you state is true – that this all in thanks to women’s preferences encompassing a lot more than a man’s physical attributes, then why would cougars, defined as older women aggressively and indiscriminately chasing younger men, even exist?

    path of least resistance. they hold out for the older men hoping for a love connection only to find out those guys no longer want them. needing to assuage their egos they throw themselves on the younger guys who, let it be known, will not hesitate to drop their standards for a quickie NSA boff.

    charlie the lonesome cougar had trouble once reintroduced to the state of nature:

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0062793/

    i don’t know what made me think of that.

    Personally I think that members of both genders have more to offer in a committed long term relationship and assesing who is getting the better deal on that aspect alone is a miscalculation.

    sexual appeal is a necessary but not sufficient condition for an LTR.

    Marry young and have children with a beta you don’t love or a significantly older alpha who you will disgust you with his old age spots and sag.

    those are not the only alternatives.

    Like


  73. Usually Lurking,

    The point that I’m getting around to making when I finally master web comments is that settling on either side is worse than being alone.

    Even if the aforementioned parties only think that they’re settling, it’s still worse. People either have to figure out what is truly important to them in their own time and then find a companion who meets that criteria, or they need to stay single. Even if that means becoming a cougar or a spinster. Trying to strong arm women using fear of aging to enter into a relationship with a man they will only treat like dirt is not the solution.

    I would think so called beta’s would be more appreciative of the women who don’t lead them on and who don’t marry them just to take their money.

    Like


  74. on August 5, 2008 at 9:17 pm SeaFighter HSV

    Well, Congress officially killed the DDG-1000. Can you believe a $5 billion destroyer can’t perform area air defense?

    Like


  75. Essentially, the modern day versions of the John Travolta types that you described. They’re usually Italian, but you’ll find other white ethnic and white Latinos in that group as well. I had a longer post to describe their traits, but it’s stuck in moderation hell.

    Depending on who you ask, guidos are not true Italians but are actually of Sicilian descent, which is significantly different. Some people use the terms Italian and Sicilian interchangeably, others take offense at the practice.

    Curious minds/masochists can learn more at NJguido.com where you can even find a guido message board. Come and see the hell those of us in places like NY, NJ, Philly and Vegas must deal with on a regular basis. Other prime guido specimens can be found on http://www.hotchickswithdouchebags.com.

    Like


  76. Whereas, if she hooks up with some sweet guy (i.e. “Beta”), then she can have the 2 kids, dog and picket fence.

    The problem is that even though she may have the two kids, dog, and picket fence, she’ll always long for the alpha male deep within her heart. She’ll never be content and complete with the beta male, and she’s simply using the beta male until she can find a better alpha male.

    Put it this way, why would any woman want to marry beta male with a middle class job when they can have Roissy fuck them into submission? Why should I marry a woman who’s only marrying me because she can’t marry you. I don’t want to be second or third best because I have to preserve my dignity as well.

    sexual appeal is a necessary but not sufficient condition for an LTR.

    One of the many reasons why David Alexander cannot enter into a LTR. Most women lack sexual appeal.

    those are not the only alternatives.

    Have sex with alpha males, then marry a beta male you don’t love and regularly cuckhold him is option #3.

    Come and see the hell those of us in places like NY, NJ, Philly and Vegas must deal with on a regular basis.

    As I said, the only benefit of the guido men is that the guido females are usually following them. Guido women are hot, but that’s obvious given my taste in women. 🙂

    Like


  77. Poor Charlie!

    *sniff sniff

    Like


  78. Guido women

    Aren’t they called guidettes?

    Like


  79. 76: Put it this way, why would any woman want to marry beta male with a middle class job when they can have Roissy fuck them into submission?

    You’re kidding, right?

    Like


  80. You’re kidding, right?

    Nope not at all. I still believe that women only orgasm with alpha males.

    Aren’t they called guidettes?

    Yes, you’re right. The proper term is guidette.

    Like


  81. @80 No, but more likely with males with superior value.
    You could play Sidney Poitier of the 6-7 range and have the advantage of never having a house decorated with ornate Persian crap like he does.

    Like


  82. Shouting Thomas — that adult world in the relationship marketplace no longer exists. It does exist in the workplace, because it’s the only way things get done. But not in relationships.

    In relationships, women overestimate how long they’ll be hot, pursue and share a few Alpha men, wonder why the rejected betas don’t want them when they’re older, are difficult, don’t compromise, and don’t really value them. Older, post 30 women find it shocking to realize after a LTR that their value on the dating market is much lower.

    Meanwhile, the arc of the non-Alpha guy is a few frustrating relationships, lots of celibacy, “practice” in not being with women, experience dominated by rejection and resentment of women, inept social skills, and unwillingness to remake themselves into peacocks which women demand.

    These men aren’t really into their age-peers, they’d rather have a younger and hotter woman and don’t bother much to conceal this fact from whatever woman they’re dating.

    Women are unhappy — even a Christie Brinkley can get dumped for a teenager. Because women will and nearly always do CHOOSE POORLY unless guided by other, older women post-menopause who can accurately assess a man’s character and propensity to dump for a younger model. Women just blindly pursue high testosterone.

    Men are unhappy, mostly, because few can meet the demands of the female marketplace. Those that are chosen as “you’ll do” second choices resent it and in turn would like a younger more attractive and less emotionally closed off woman.

    However, this state of affairs exists (I’ll admit it’s childish) because eternal adolescent rebellion suits the Western world of relative affluence and no responsibility. [Motherhood is anathema to most Western women because it entails HEAVY responsibility, perhaps the most heavy anyone can bear.]

    Like


  83. 80: I still believe that women only orgasm with alpha males.

    Speaking as a woman, I can state beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are mistaken in this belief. Thank god.

    Like


  84. on August 6, 2008 at 12:58 am Sara the troll.

    11 Nate

    Apparently alot of dudes from match.com she had gone home with couldn’t get it up

    I shouldn’t laugh, but that cracked me up.

    Told me she hadn’t be laid in 6 months!

    Oh fuck! That’s amazing. It’s been over a year for me.

    Very true, her flesh just wasn’t as supple, stomach just wasn’t as tight, and aroma was of her light cigarette addiction (seemingly to help her depression).

    This is a fascinating story, Nate, but are you sure about going public with it?

    Like


  85. on August 6, 2008 at 1:09 am Sara the lion hearted

    This whole cougar conversation is right up my alley, but I consider myself much more lion than cougar. I definitely fall into the cougar age range, but not the behavior if it involves a voracious appetite for young men. I must say they are attracted to me, though. So what do you make of that? Is there a category for that? God, I hope so.

    Like


  86. “33 David Alexander

    This was obviously NOT what iVillage was wanting to hear.

    I wonder if there’s a pool of young men complaining about the older men stealing the women? At certain moments, I wonder if an older male is just a proxy for certain alpha male behaviours.”

    Dude, you are blinded by the virginity of youth. You know not post-pubescent truths. Older guys grow more than mold. We get sexy because of things you can’t possibly know, because you don’t know them yet.

    Like


  87. “As one can tell, I’m fixated on maintaining some bizzare theory that everybody must be in the same exact age group…”

    That leaves you as you get older and get see things closer to the way Grim sees them. Age becomes just different styles of personality, not different social groupings.

    Like


  88. “Well DA, its a mixed bag. Some girls like dating older men, others don’t. I’d say less than half of most girls under 25 like dating a guy that is significantly older, like 10+ years.”

    Anyone is succeptible to charm.

    Like


  89. “43 A cougar, simply put, is an older woman who AGGRESSIVELY seeks sex INDISCRIMINATELY, which often is painfully obviously (and painful to watch). They compensate their fading looks with a significant ease to bed.”

    You jerk off to the dictionary, don’t you?

    Like


  90. “And I suspect that the average 40-year-old woman, at least one who’s still fit and attractive, would sooner develop an intimate relationship with a cucumber than let the typical 60-year-old man nail her. Why, he’d probably die on top of her in mid-thrust. ”

    Your age is telling. Some 70 year olds go 5 times a day, and not always with the same girl. No hyberbole from me.

    Like


  91. “Nope not at all. I still believe that women only orgasm with alpha males”

    … Some people fight best on their back. Talent is as talent does. People specialize. There are idiot savants. Don’t generalize beyond the bounds of group traits.

    Like


  92. “Men are unhappy, mostly, because few can meet the demands of the female marketplace. Those that are chosen as “you’ll do” second choices resent it and in turn would like a younger more attractive and less emotionally closed off woman.

    However, this state of affairs exists (I’ll admit it’s childish) because eternal adolescent rebellion suits the Western world of relative affluence and no responsibility. [Motherhood is anathema to most Western women because it entails HEAVY responsibility, perhaps the most heavy anyone can bear.]”

    This is a fine assessment, if you are born into a myopic western worldview. Just like it made sense once to consider that there were 8 planets because there are eight orifices in the human body. Outside of the system, it falls apart with no noise, and no one cares or notices.

    People like to fuck, and that is not adolescent. Meeting the demands of the marketplace is what gaming is all about – becoming aware of the game, such that your advertising gets sales. The whole notion of compromise is a suckers game of guilt and lack of personal responsibility. Step up or shut up.

    I left the west permanently at age 36. Before that I spent too many months in desparate and fetid man-heat. And some months on top of more than just my game. But I had to leave the west to be primal. The west is heady, involved in ideas. It’s hard to know what direction is north there.

    Like


  93. I think a lot of cougars just become sluts myself—-banging whoever will hump them as their charms fade, but silently resentful that their charms are indeed fading. Being jealous of youth is like that figure in Greek mythology who keeps pushing that boulder up that hill, only to see it roll down again.

    Roissy has pretty much hit the nail on the head again.

    To get your attention and keep it, I found a few cougars would entice me with their willingness to take it in the ass and a few other “outside” practices back in my day. I had one that wanted to be shocked with this little electric wand she had. I’ll have to admit, older married people probably dont oft-have that kind of sex. I dont know why, but it felt “dirty” with the older gals and more exciting with the younger ones. I mean, I used to feel—–right in the middle of it slapping a 38-year old ass, “aren’t we raunchy-fucking-people”. You never feel that way when you are 25 and she is 22, but you do when you are 31 and she is 38, looking at her belly chain around her waist and the slave bracelet on one of her ankles and that “its my body” little flower tatoo on her right ass cheek, and her colored-permed short-haircut.

    I’d never tell that to a woman to her face, and only anonymously would I ever fess’ up to that, but its the ugly truth. Total honesty, as Roissy pointed out, can only be achieved anonymously.

    Like


  94. What’s interesting to look at is the Hollywood relationships. One, because they are so public everyone knows them and the dynamics they express. Two, because Hollywood has the ultimate in wealth/power/fame for men and often (though not always) beauty for women it’s a laboratory for isolating different aspects of what drives relationship markets.

    One thing stands out — young women in Hollywood constantly complain that there is a very small pool of men who are not total jerks, not gay, and have enough status/power etc. to match to exceed their own.

    Many will choose men who are either slightly or significantly older than themselves. Annette Benning and Warren Beatty, Catherine Zeta-Jones and Michael Douglas, for a while Angelina Jolie and Billy Bob Thornton. Heck Bobcat Goldthwait and that hot young actress.

    Other women will finally “marry down” when they reach the end of their attractiveness, even ones who were considered beauties: examples being Julia Roberts and her cameraman husband, Geena Davis and her husband. None of whom matched the woman’s wealth/power/status/fame.

    Next, it’s interesting that older men will often quite happily marry women who are not great beauties or famous but provide stability and support: Robert Downey Jr. and his producer wife, Colin Firth and his producer wife, and so on.

    Even being considered a great beauty is no guarantee that a woman will retain a mate: Uma Thurman was thrown over by Ethan Hawke for the nanny, Weeds star Mary Louise Parker by Billy Crudup for Claire Danes (while Parker was pregnant).

    Which makes judgment of a man’s character CRITICAL by women. Women often cite these dumpings as evidence that they can and should play around, or not commit, or what have you. Ignoring the issue of choosing wisely.

    Jones and Bennings choices seem to have worked out. Their older husbands are unlikely to stray at their age, since even with their power/status it’s unlikely they’ll find anyone better even considered their past reps as ladies men. Timing, is everything. Since women choose, the timing choice must be theirs as well.

    The record of real-life Hollywood cougars is not a happy one. Teri Hatcher is running through Botox treatments and has a frozen face, even David Spade can do better. Same for Heather Locklear. [Twelve years ago or so neither woman would have acknowledged Spade existed other than to laugh at his tazing by an assistant.] Denise Richards is flogging herself on a reality show, and has to deal with unflattering photos of herself in swimsuits.

    Like


  95. “aren’t we raunchy-fucking-people”.

    Keep that in mind, and cultivate that thought. No matter how jaded you get, that is one form of sex spice to keep available to your cooking.

    Like


  96. “Which makes judgment of a man’s character CRITICAL by women. Women often cite these dumpings as evidence that they can and should play around, or not commit, or what have you. Ignoring the issue of choosing wisely.”

    Wrong. Women choose not by definable standards – at least not standards that can be codified with simple definitions. They feel for a big picture, and frustrate men’s understanding of their decision process.

    Play to your strengths, whatever they are.

    Like


  97. “Total honesty, as Roissy pointed out, can only be achieved anonymously.”

    Or with girl you want to leave after a bottle of vodka.

    Like


  98. You could play Sidney Poitier of the 6-7 range and have the advantage of never having a house decorated with ornate Persian crap like he does.

    Lest I sound like an idiot, can anybody explain this comment to me? I seriously don’t get it.

    Speaking as a woman, I can state beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are mistaken in this belief. Thank god.

    Faked orgasms don’t count, nor does masturbating to an image of an alpha.

    aren’t we raunchy-fucking-people

    Why is that so bad? If you’re both having fun, then don’t worry. 🙂

    Like


  99. Being chased by an Alfa Cougar is one of the scariest experiences a Beta male can face, particularly if at work and someone higher up the ladder.

    They’re like the liquid metal Terminator, no amount of ignoring, avoiding and lying can put one of these monsters down.

    I think I might just have to change jobs……..

    Like


  100. Being chased by an Alfa Cougar is one of the scariest experiences a Beta male can face, particularly if at work and someone higher up the ladder.

    Wow, men can turn down sex. There must be an woman orgasming to a beta somewhere.

    Admittedly, while tempting, I’d rather avoid banging the alpha cougar from work primarily due to sexual harassment litigation if things go wrong.

    Like


  101. “Being chased by an Alfa Cougar is one of the scariest experiences a Beta male can face, particularly if at work and someone higher up the ladder.”

    Consider yourself a baboon being harrassed. The sex is not the issue.

    Baboons have simple choices. Step down, or step up.

    Stepping up is way easier than people expect, and the repurcussions way smaller than we expect.

    Just do it. You plan on quitting? Be a man first. Get severance.

    Like


  102. Sorry, DA. I was fishing for an example of an unambiguous African-American Alpha with a reputation for classy women and the finer things in life, as opposed to (say) Fifty Cent. Obama is too ambiguously the nerd-boy. Unfortunately Poitier’s hot Persian wife has the recurrent gold-encrusted bad taste of wealthy 40-something Persian women, leading to his (very tasteful) mansion being clogged with Louis XVI chairs in a hodge-podge of anachronistic gold.

    For the rest, as usual, I run the opposite of you: being with ordinary women has led me to a sort of aporia, but I continue to get with them as my game and my schedule permits. I am so unusually depressed that NO woman I am with–and I am in a veritable playground of the hottest of the Hotts(tm)–really gets me going. An unexciting Jewish 5 who will at least put out is better than the Braziilian 9 at the mall to whom I remain invisible when delivering my opener.

    I don’t have an answer, really, but there’s an interesting Devlin discussion going on over at http://www.realadultsex.com.

    Like


  103. Whiskey, Julia Roberts made an odd choice of husband (Lyle Lovett) even when at the peak of her attractiveness. I think her tastes were simply unconventional. None of the men she dated after she got famous were as famous as she was, and none were conventionally attractive except Daniel Day-Lewis.

    Anyway, the film business isn’t like the rest of the world. Temptation runs high for the most successful people because they’re so often apart.

    Clio

    Like


  104. “Julia Roberts made an odd choice of husband (Lyle Lovett)”

    Well, isn’t that the whole point of this blog?

    Like


  105. Being chased by an Alfa Cougar is one of the scariest experiences a Beta male can face, particularly if at work and someone higher up the ladder.

    They’re like the liquid metal Terminator, no amount of ignoring, avoiding and lying can put one of these monsters down.

    I think I might just have to change jobs……..

    The aforementioned cougar I banged is 1/2 of my company’s HR dept. I almost didn’t. But fuck it, gotta try fucking someone with a good amount of more corporate power than you once in a lifetime.

    Like


  106. on August 6, 2008 at 4:28 am Alphalpha Sprout

    De-lurking here after following this blog for a couple of months.

    Roissy: Hats off you. You are a funny motherfucker with a knack for speaking the truth. Sadly, if I had come upon this blog five years ago I would be in histrionics like some of your oh-so-deliciously, agonizingly, delicately offended male commenters sometimes get (I won’t speculate what I would have done five years ago as a woman). I’m happy to have seen the light… it makes life easier as a man and as a seeker after truth (something I was even back before I was a true man).

    Reading boring ev-psych papers is how I first saw the light… but reading a blog like this is just as effective and a lot more fun!

    This post is brilliant; and even funnier than the normal. I give it nine thumbs up.

    Like


  107. Eurosabra (aka figleaf) shamelessly advertised her blog claiming:

    I don’t have an answer, really, but there’s an interesting Devlin discussion going on over at http://www.realadultsex.com.

    That website sucks. It reminds me of the roundtable discussions that are on 8 AM – 10 AM before the soaps that have hosts like opera. Only its a website and even more boring.

    Like


  108. on August 6, 2008 at 4:47 am Comment_Free_Market

    ****
    Men are unhappy, mostly, because few can meet the demands of the female marketplace. Those that are chosen as “you’ll do” second choices resent it and in turn would like a younger more attractive and less emotionally closed off woman.
    ****
    Ah, the Free Market. A nice fantasy world isn’t it? The “sexual” free market is a fantasy world, and anyone who believes it should take a good long look at the rest of their life to.

    A free market with special laws, but really, who here knows what I’m talking about when I say special laws? Do I mean the date rape laws? The marriage laws? The child support, married or unmarried, laws? The “violence against woman attacking you with a knife” laws? Which laws do I mean? I mean all the laws you know, all the laws you don’t know, and all the laws you don’t THINK have an effect, but do. I’m even including the ones I don’t know myself.

    Then, of course, another joke of the “Free Market”, perfect information, interpretted by the coldly rational buyer. Everyone knows that women “group” think. So, with TV, magazines, stupid romance books, and movies pouring a viewpoint into their brain 24/7, a viewpoint they then reflect back on all their friends, is your opinion of a “natural” free market. LOOK AT THE STUPID SIT-COM HUSBAND!

    The American “sexual marketplace” is heavily regulated, manipulated enviroment. Which is one of the reasons it’s so difficult to do well.

    Like


  109. @107

    I am not figleaf, and he and I have some rather interesting differences of opinion on the alpha/beta split. Rather, since both Roissy and figleaf posted on the Devlin thread over at Tyler Cowen’s, I thought a heads-up was advisable.

    Like


  110. Roissy says something important here but does not take it to its logical conclusion:

    in other news, it’s funny how the shibboleths and pretty lies i listed in this post that women often tell themselves to placate their egos WOULDN’T BE NECESSARY if it wasn’t universally acknowledged on some deep dark level that a woman aging out of her youthful beauty is a horrible tragedy.

    Conclusion: Therefore we should find a way to stop this tragedy. This is an achievable goal in the next few decades if we focus a lot of resources on this goal. Advances in biotechnology will make possible full body rejuvenation. We need Strategies for Engineered Negligible Senescence (SENS) as proposed by biogerontologist Aubrey de Grey.

    Beautiful women should stay young for centuries. This is a goal worth striving for.

    Like


  111. Guy Noir — a woman named Jane Austen wrote a whole series of books, I hear they are popular two hundred years on, on how women who are self-possessed put off making final decisions on men until they can completely judge the man’s character. IIRC, they had titles with “Pride” and “Prejudice” and “Sense” and “Sensibility” in them. Often, an older relative played a critical role in revising poor initial opinions of some suitors and bringing childish infatuations to an end. Hmmmm …

    Which brings me to my next point. Richard Fernandez at Pajamas Media (“Belmont Club”) links to the NYT article about people fearing dying alone. What we have now in the Western world (Europe, much of Asia, besides the US) is the loss of mediating institutions that used to prevent people from just dying alone, making spectacularly bad choices in mates (critical for women) and other social controls. Part of that is GOOD, in that freedom to do whatever one pleases gave us the Airplane, Apple Computer, and modern medicine. But it’s also BAD in that it gives us a plague of single Motherhood (watch South Central LA or Britain’s white underclass and increasingly thug-life middle class yobs and hooligans). Isolated people with no connection to others or willingness to sacrifice for others. Something anti-Western critics, no matter how deluded on other points, usually recognize and point out.

    Comment — the Free Market is the most efficient mechanism for delivering goods and services. However that is all it is good for, it is not a god nor a total solution for anything any more than a hammer is the be-all tool. Total or even too much control is harmful for a society as well, it’s stifling effects on innovation and freedom can produce societies that are rigid and don’t adapt to change well, since those who could provide say, a “Manhattan Project” or odd-ball decoding are never allowed to grow. Imperial Japan had some great technology but the rigid social controls and social structure never allowed them to take advantage of their intellectual manpower.

    Human beings are profoundly social animals that need lots of intermediating institutions (which is why you find them all over the place, including, well THIS blog I suppose) to control and manage social interaction. But, the balance is between atomizing and acidic freedom that leads to violent loneliness, and stifling control. Finding the happy balance is always difficult.

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  112. 98 Faked orgasms don’t count, nor does masturbating to an image of an alpha.

    Agreed. And I say again, I can state beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are mistaken in the belief that a woman must have an alpha — in any capacity — in order to have an orgasm.

    Like


  113. “Human beings are profoundly social animals that need lots of intermediating institutions (which is why you find them all over the place, including, well THIS blog I suppose) to control and manage social interaction. But, the balance is between atomizing and acidic freedom that leads to violent loneliness, and stifling control. Finding the happy balance is always difficult.”

    Yes, someone has twisted our spigot open, and the smooth twisty streamy flow we were used to is now a fuzzy rush. Twist it a bit more, and will it be more fizzy, or a new pattern/

    We don’t know.

    Social chaos does not support your premise that we need social control. Perhaps social control will come in some new, unforseen pattern, such as personal informed responsibility?

    We don’t know.

    Like


  114. i nominate whiskey for commenter of the year, and if the category doesn’t exist, it should for him!

    Like


  115. on August 6, 2008 at 3:01 pm Problem Drinker

    Please gentlemen, all this harshness toward the cougars! They are a rich resource to be tapped(no pun intended).

    Like


  116. Whisky

    What’s the point of bemoaning the present, the seeds of society’s regression to the baboon pack was sewn a long time ago.

    Its either monkey see monkey do, or just sit back light a cigar and watch the mother f…ker burn.

    Mind you I like your astute observations………

    Like


  117. on August 6, 2008 at 3:27 pm Sara the lion hearted

    I’m still not feeling the grief, roissy!

    Like


  118. Roissy: men retain their sexual market value a lot longer than women thanks to women’s preferences encompassing a lot more than a man’s physical attributes.

    You are so fooling yourself. Wives don’t stop wanting sex. They stop wanting sex with their husbands because the men have let themselves go. Peter’s dead on with his description of wheezing marshmalllow, except it happens MUCH earlier than 60. Rare is the guy in his 30’s who is still fit. The rest are shaped more like polliwogs.

    Would you want a large polliwog flopping around on top of you?

    FYI Peter: needing a mirror to look at one’s dick is called the Doobie syndrome by women: The belly do be bigger than the dick do be.

    Like


  119. on August 6, 2008 at 4:04 pm Sara the lion hearted

    P.S. I’m not feeling the grief but all this cleansing, running, and healthy living IS bringing back my sex drive. Any ideas? Be nice now! (Or just have fun at my expense, or just ignore this, either way, I’m good…reaallly good. *wink*)

    Like


  120. on August 6, 2008 at 4:30 pm Patrick Bateman

    Even if the sexual market were free in the sense of free from government restrictions other than those intended to thwart coercion e.g. rape, it would still lack many of the characteristics associated with theoretical free markets. In theory, we assume people act rationally, but humans have evolved to behave rationally in a paleolithic environment not in modern New York. Our actions are not rational for the environment we live in, and this is especially true of women. Game is largely based on the fact that women do not behave rationally, so men must hit those primitive buttons that most women have.

    Like


  121. on August 6, 2008 at 4:32 pm Patrick Bateman

    P.S. I’m not feeling the grief but all this cleansing, running, and healthy living IS bringing back my sex drive. Any ideas?

    You could break the record for world’s largest gang bang. Put up an ad on craigslist.

    Like


  122. on August 6, 2008 at 4:43 pm Usually Lurking

    They stop wanting sex with their husbands because the men have let themselves go

    I think that you are off here. In my experience, the husbands that have let themselves go are married to wives who have let themselves go, and vice versa. Actually, recently, it is more likely that they were both fat when they got married.

    They stop wanting sex with their husbands for all sorts of reasons. But, usually, the interest in sex stops soon after the first child is born. And is usually only regained when they want another child. But, even there, it tends to be more mechanical.

    Like


  123. on August 6, 2008 at 4:53 pm Peregrine John

    This is true. I can name any number of guys who tried for years to reawaken their wives’ libidos, working everything they could find: nice guy crap, simulated badboyness (seriously, some of the things I’ve been told are bizarre), PUA techniques of all varieties, on and on. They mostly give up after a while. Some leave; the others (mostly those who stay around for the kids’ sakes) let themselves go the way their wives have. But, thanks in no small part to the years-long lag time, there can be NO mistaking which is the cause and which is the effect.

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  124. As a confirmed beta male beyond my prime, I don’t see what would be so awful about spending a week with an aging cougar in a nice resort. You might get to like each other, have some interesting conversations, do some pleasant activities together, enjoy some excellent meals together, laugh together, and get to know each and like each other above the neck. And, have great sex.

    Who knows, it might lead to that awful four letter word which I don’t believe I have seen mentioned on the website much if at all, and with which I will not offend the delicate sensibilities of the readers of this website. Perhaps affection might be an acceptable term for such a situation. Maybe a friendship will evolve from it. When you realize that you tend to lose friends as you age, this is nothing to belittle.

    BTW, this is an old issue and has been investigated by others:

    http://www.swarthmore.edu/SocSci/bdorsey1/41docs/51-fra.html

    Like


  125. on August 6, 2008 at 5:10 pm Sara the lion hearted

    123 Peregrine John

    But, thanks in no small part to the years-long lag time, there can be NO mistaking which is the cause and which is the effect.

    Now what would that be? She started it?

    121 Patrick

    You could break the record for world’s largest gang bang.

    Now that would be something! If only Guinness would create a few more fun categories. I did like your advice on weight training as a way to deprogram from my ex (a continual process). As soon as I’m able, I will join a health club as I love working out. Endorphins rule if I might be so tiresome as to say.

    Like


  126. on August 6, 2008 at 5:26 pm Usually Lurking

    I don’t see what would be so awful about spending a week with an aging cougar … and get to know each and like each other above the neck

    Joel, you sorta missed the main point. Cougars are not looking for romance. If they were, they would not be Cougars. They are also not looking for Betas. They want a High-Testosterone male to pound them into submission.

    We are talking hair pulling, ass spanking, curse spewing, back scratching, name calling, pillow biting hot monkey sex. Now, if she gets that, or anything close, then, yeah, she might want to spend a week with the guy.

    But, if she were looking for romance, she would not be wearing what she wears, hanging out in the places she goes and hitting on the guys that she does. She is a Cougar.

    Like


  127. on August 6, 2008 at 5:30 pm Sara the envelope pusher

    124 Joel

    Who knows, it might lead to that awful four letter word which I don’t believe I have seen mentioned on the website much if at all, and with which I will not offend the delicate sensibilities of the readers of this website.

    You don’t mean LOVE do you? Where did you come from? On this forum by and large, love has been replaced with pleasure; it’s cheap substitute.

    Sorry, maybe you really should ban me, but this whole “sexual marketplace” conversation is ill from the start. Do you people not realize how much the advertising powers that be, have orgasms over the fact that you’ve bought into that concept? That we are commodities? Please, wake up to what you are saying. It all sounds extremely logical, ordered, rational, but is so fucked up. The language you use is very revealing, no matter what kind of so-called realism you are trying to convey. It’s certainly not a rebellious attitude, it’s extremely conformist, and is making you all slaves.

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  128. Pupu thinks it is perfectly natural for an over 40 gal to loose (most of) her sexual appeal. Evolutionarily speaking, sexual appeal is nothing but a signal of one’s ability to reproduce quality offsprings. An over 40 gal won’t be able to reproduce that much even though her quality as a human being may continue to improve. Men, despite their longer shelf life as reproductive devices, are ducks after all (which is why so many of them are called duckies by their mates) in the sense that they die fast after loosing their mates. An over 40 gal, like a fixed cat, is perfectly capable and reasonably happy to live on her own even though her value as a companion to a duck may actually improve with age. Pupu is not particularly concerned about aging. We — cats, dogs, ducks and babies — are all born to age and die. When there is no more eggs to lay, Pupu will wag her tail and cuddle.

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  129. Peter’s dead on with his description of wheezing marshmalllow, except it happens MUCH earlier than 60. Rare is the guy in his 30’s who is still fit. The rest are shaped more like polliwogs.

    SO totally true. And so easy to verify. Take a look at the people jogging around the park or in your neighborhood. There probably won’t be many of them, and very few will be men over the age of 35 or 40. Same with bicyclists. What about adult sports leagues? Guess what, in most areas there aren’t many, and those that do exist are aimed mostly at 20something singles. The very popular adult basketball league in my area, with many divisions and teams, had to drop it’s over-30 division due to lack of interest. All right, what about gyms? Check out just about any fitness center near you, and you’ll be excused for thinking that you stumbled onto the set of Romper Room. Home exercise equipment, men over 30 must be buying that, right? Maybe some of them do buy that stuff … and end up using it as very expensive coat racks.

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  130. Peter’s dead on with his description of wheezing marshmalllow, except it happens MUCH earlier than 60. Rare is the guy in his 30’s who is still fit. The rest are shaped more like polliwogs.

    Any guy over 30 who has a realistic prospect of dating hot young things will make the effort to stay in good shape.

    Hanging out with really attractive women does wonders for your motivation.

    Like


  131. on August 6, 2008 at 6:38 pm Steve Johnson

    129 Peter,

    I don’t know what things are like in the burbs but in Manhattan this is how gyms work:

    Attendance Breakdown:
    More women than men by a touch

    Women:
    Almost 0 women who do anything that could fairly be described as exercise; the women generally all go to classes and jump around or stretch or something (not very high exertion). Women who aren’t in classes are on treadmills going at walking pace with a steep incline and holding onto the sides or “jogging” at between 4-5 mph; rarely do you see a woman going 6 mph or faster on a treadmill.

    Sometimes women hit the weights or machines. Usually the stick to weights under 15 lbs to avoid getting “big”. Lots of bicep curls and triceps pulldowns.

    Men:
    About 15-20% stick to treadmills exclusively. About 95% of those guys are faster than all but the fastest women on treadmills.

    Another 10-15% will do resistance training with machines only.

    The remainder use free weights and are generally pretty serious about it. Some of those guys do tons of curls (and use the squat cages to do it, which drives me nuts) but most don’t just do those.

    It seems to me that when women get married they do several things in rapid succession: (1) chop all their hair off (“it’s easier”) (2) start gaining weight (they drop weight to fit into a dress, after that’s over they care a lot less).

    Chopping the hair off is a clear sign that she just doesn’t care anymore.

    Like


  132. Hanging out with really attractive women does wonders for your motivation.

    Hangong out? What are you, Hanna Montana’s male back-up dancer? A guy over 30 needs to be dating with intention to marry. Hanging out is something I occasionally do with my work colleagues, some of whom, I guess, are hot women. Just teasing. carry on.

    Any guy over 30 who has a realistic prospect of dating hot young things will make the effort to stay in good shape.

    It behooves any guy over 30 to stay in shape. It’s not just the hot chicks, but other things like health.

    Otherwise fit guys over 30 start developong a bit of a gut, even when they’re otherwise athletic-looking at a glance.

    Question to Peter and Steve, since you sound like gym guys: what’s the best way to maintain a reasonably flat stomach, assuming a good died and a non-negotiable love for an occasional beer?

    I heard that drinking lots of water and doing sit ups is sufficient. Your thoughts?

    Like


  133. assuming a good diet

    Like


  134. on August 6, 2008 at 7:09 pm Patrick Bateman

    I did like your advice on weight training as a way to deprogram from my ex (a continual process). As soon as I’m able, I will join a health club as I love working out. Endorphins rule if I might be so tiresome as to say.

    I too am addicted to the endorphins released during a workout. I even enjoy cardio. I’m the guy doing HIIT on the elliptical at 6 am. You aren’t one of those girls who avoids heavy weights in order to avoid becoming bulky, are you? The chicks who get down and lift with the guys always have the best figures.

    for PA

    Lots of ab work can actually be bad for the appearance of your abs depending on your bf %. Big ab muscles under layers of fat just make you look that much fatter. You might like the anabolic diet. I ballooned up recently and used this diet to lose fat and gain muscle simultaneously. Carb cycling is something else I’m looking into. Stomach vacuums also help bring in your waist size. I was a fat 32″ when I started this diet 2 months ago and along with stomach vacuums, I’ve brought that down to 29.5″. I’m trying to get back to the 28″ I had several years ago.

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  135. on August 6, 2008 at 7:52 pm Milton Freedman

    PA the only way to keep a flat stomach is to keep body fat under 12%.

    Like


  136. 133 PA
    assuming a good diet

    Ditch the refined sugars. I used to be a 36 waist about 8 years ago. Went cold turkey and now I’m a 30. You feel much better too, nit just due tom the weight loss, but no more sugar spikes.

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  137. 131 Steve:

    For sure, what I see at the gym in terms of men’s and women’s activities pretty much bears out your observations. Men tend to be more serious in their gym going. There are exceptions, of course, with some women who work very hard and some men who plod on treadmills or ellipticals without ever breaking a sweat, but they don’t change the general rule. What I find somewhat disturbing is a different thing, namely the fact that the males are so young. I’d hazard a guess and say that at least three-quarters of the men are under 30. Often well under 30. Women tend to be a shade older.

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  138. Do you want a flat ab or do you really mean a 6 pack?

    For a flat ab it’s purely a matter of how much fat you’re carrying around your mid section and posture.

    If you want a 6 pack it requires exercise, but it won’t matter how many ab exercises you’re doing if you’re still carrying fat around the middle.

    A guy can have a flat abdomen and still carry a bit of a spare tire, if he works on his posture. You will NEVER have a 6 pack if you don’t work on your body fat percentage.

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  139. Do you want a flat ab or do you really mean a 6 pack?

    Thanks all for pointers.

    Basically, a flat ab. You can’t tell I have anything “extra” when I’m standing and wearing an untucked shirt but I want to maintain it and maybe tighten it up a little.

    Like


  140. They stop wanting sex with their husbands for all sorts of reasons. But, usually, the interest in sex stops soon after the first child is born.

    So why do guys like Roissy and to a greater extent, Devlin, cherish or desire a sexual regime based on pre-sexual revolution mores where sex was essentially limited to marriage? If interest in sex drops off after the first child, what’s the point of getting married and having children in the first place? So I can masturbate in the garage with porn purchased on a secret credit card for fear of my wife catching me?

    Trust me, for all men, the current regime is better. I’d rather “starve” than eat gruel.

    Like


  141. PA – Concentrate on dropping your body fat percentage.

    Use http://www.fitday.com and track your diet, no cheating, no omissions. The free program will give you a ballpark daily caloric intake based on your height. You can google basal metabolic rate calculations to be more precise.

    You should be eating either 40%protein, 40% carb and 20% fat or 50% protein, 30% carb and 20% fat.

    Eat clean and the correct amount and you’ll lose the fat. Unfortunately, most people seriously underestimate the number of calories they eat per day. They also eat too many carbs and not enough lean proteins.

    Like


  142. on August 7, 2008 at 5:57 am Steve Johnson

    David Alexander:

    “If interest in sex drops off after the first child, what’s the point of getting married and having children in the first place? So I can masturbate in the garage with porn purchased on a secret credit card for fear of my wife catching me?”

    Uh, so basically, your life now but with a kid?

    Like


  143. on August 7, 2008 at 6:00 am Steve Johnson

    “Question to Peter and Steve, since you sound like gym guys: what’s the best way to maintain a reasonably flat stomach, assuming a good died and a non-negotiable love for an occasional beer?”

    The reason the gut is so fascinating is because it’s really good reflection of total body fat / fitness. Waist to hip ratio doesn’t lie. Can’t just target a gut.

    Personally, I’ve gone the no sugar / starch route; my waist size is about what it was 15 years ago (and I weigh like 40 more lbs) so I’m pretty happy.

    It’s challenging to eat no sugar / starch. You’ve always got to be aware of what you’re eating.

    Like


  144. patrick:

    You might like the anabolic diet. I ballooned up recently and used this diet to lose fat and gain muscle simultaneously.

    the anabolic diet works well once you learn to de-program a couple of decades’ worth of “low-fat diet” gospel (harder than you think) AND re-learn to enjoy the taste of fat-laden foods, but going for those goals simultaneously with equal emphasis on each is a bad call.
    unless you’re juicing, or are laughably out of shape when you begin training, you should concentrate almost exclusively on either fat loss or muscle gain. after you hit a plateau in whichever of the two you’re on, switch your diet and training to focus on the other.
    and if your bodyfat % is 10 or below, any further loss of bodyfat WILL be accompanied by a concomitant loss of muscle mass – a loss you can mitigate through correct weightlifting (not only the right exercises, but the right # of sets and rest intervals), but which you won’t be able to avert altogether. unless you’re a west african/trinidadian hybrid freak, or are juicing, or both.
    this is sort of like speed training vs. endurance training for 400-800 meter runners: you need both, but, if you try to improve both at the same time, each form of training will undermine the other.

    Carb cycling is something else I’m looking into.

    carb cycling works, but you have to be willing to schedule your whole life around it.

    * big upside = you get excited about food again. if you’ve done other athletic diets, you’re no doubt aware of the intense dietary ennui inherent in most of them. with carb cycling, on the other hand, every weekend (or whenever you carb up) is something to look foward to – who doesn’t like cheating every weekend? – and then, when monday rolls around again, you get to relish the awesomeness of pepperoni.
    also, by friday, even something as simple as a big plate of plain white rice is enough to induce uncontrollable fits of giddy hysteria.

    * big upside 2 = if you roadtrip much, you can easily keep a week’s worth of lowcarb food, all of which can be eaten cold on the road, in a medium-sized ice chest.
    i have successfully implemented this diet while traveling around the country sleeping in a van.

    * downside 1 (personal anecdote) = carb cycling plays havoc with my insides. during the first 24 hours of each carb-up, i experienced an extremely painful gas bloat against which i was utterly powerless, even after 4-5 months of carb cycling. needless to say, this is not good in general, but especially not when it happens on the weekend.

    * downside 2 = you WILL get “food coma” at the start of your carb-up. after you start carbing again, prepare to siesta like a 75-year-old floridian.

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  145. 131: Chopping the hair off is a clear sign that she just doesn’t care anymore.

    You are ridiculous.

    Like


  146. on August 7, 2008 at 12:39 pm Patrick Bateman

    johnny five

    I concentrated on fat loss after the induction phase. The muscle gain wasn’t planned and was probably due to increased testosterone production from all of the cholesterol. I’m only 24 and probably won’t start juicing until around 30 when my natural free T levels have dropped significantly.

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  147. on August 7, 2008 at 12:40 pm Usually Lurking

    Johnny, I swear to god, you must have the other half of this amulet.

    And, for anyone interested, check out Natural Hormonal Enhancement (NHE) by Rob Faigin. Great book. Great diet.

    Like


  148. on August 7, 2008 at 12:43 pm Usually Lurking

    Bateman, forget the shortcuts. Check out pictures of Vince Gironda when he was in his 40s. He was “ripped”. That guy started out very small and never, ever juiced.

    You don’t need juice for the T, you need it if you want to get HYUGE and you are , currently, only big.

    Like


  149. Cardio is just as important for women as strengthening. It’s a combination of muscle tone and good circulation (from doing cardio) that prevents cellulite.

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  150. on August 7, 2008 at 1:18 pm Patrick Bateman

    Usually Lurking
    I don’t want to get huge, but I don’t want to experience the ill effects of andropause. I want to keep the T levels of a 25 year old mostly for health reasons. I’m not going to juice like a bodybuilder.

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  151. on August 7, 2008 at 1:24 pm Usually Lurking

    Alright, well, it’s your life. Still, read everything you can on Vince Gironda. Absolute genius, and he never juiced.

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  152. Tom Venuto is a natural body builder too. He’s got an excellent blog.

    Patrick if you’re worried about male menopause, then when it happens go to an internist and get bloodwork done and on the correct hormone replacement.

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  153. Uh, so basically, your life now but with a kid?

    Pretty much, except I have to support a wife and child. So, again, what’s the incentive to get married again, my conservative friends? So I can squander and waste more money and get even less back? A combination of maids, restaurants, female friends, and nieces and nephews is surely more cost effective.

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  154. on August 8, 2008 at 12:31 am Patrick Bateman

    Anon
    I do plan to have blood work done before taking any synthetic T, but it may be difficult to get prescribed T before the levels are very low. I will go around the law if I need to. I don’t want to take T at 50 to get back to the levels of a 40 year old. I want to maintain the T levels of a young man.

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  155. Patrick
    Male menopause hits around 40. Be careful with hormones. Talk to any endocrinologist. You can not change the levels of one hormone without it affecting the function of other hormones.

    Just remember that the guys selling you stuff illegally are not concerned with your health. They only want to make money. They can sell you rice flour pills with no ramification. What are you going to do? Demand a refund? Turn them in?

    Don’t assume because you feel better that it’s working. You will always obtain some degree of placebo effect.

    Fact is you will never know what it was you really ingested without having EACH pill lab tested before you take it.

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  156. Male menopause hits around 40.

    there is no male menopause. stop trying to use a feminist-supported media created buzzword to draw a false equivalence between normal male aging and actual female menopause.

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  157. Roissy does not like the term “male menopause”. My apologies. So to make him happy:

    Patrick
    Male andropause hits around 40. Be careful with hormones. Talk to any endocrinologist. You can not change the levels of one hormone without it affecting the function of other hormones.

    Both menopause and andropause are normal results of aging. Female menopause occurs over a shorter time period then male andropause.

    The medical fields knows that at around 40 men will start to experience a very small annual decline in certain hormones. It is questionable whether the decline is significant enough to cause symptoms in a male with previously normal hormone levels.

    Therefore it is questionable whether hormone replacement therapy is effective, let alone safe.

    Read up. Avoid commercial websites and magazines. Look to research papers from respected academic centers, NIH, etc.

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  158. on August 8, 2008 at 4:50 pm Patrick Bateman

    Okay people. In addition to my degree in physics, I also have a lot of training in chemisty and molecular biology. Free T starts declining earlier and more rapidly than total T. I know I’m probably going to need substances beyond T and some of those other chemicals may be even more important than synthetic T itself.

    Just remember that the guys selling you stuff illegally are not concerned with your health. They only want to make money. They can sell you rice flour pills with no ramification. What are you going to do? Demand a refund? Turn them in?

    Maybe make it myself. At the very least I’ll have it tested. I have plenty of friends scattered throughout the country who could run a quick NMR to make sure I have the real deal.

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  159. PB, i’m currently in the market for steroids. what is your take on winstrol? i don’t like needles, so if you have any recommendations (price, availability, orals) let me know.

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  160. on August 8, 2008 at 5:18 pm Steve Johnson

    roissy,

    If money isn’t an issue you can go to an “anti-aging” medicine clinic. There’s one in Manhattan that has a good web page. If you can’t find one in DC there’s always Acela / US Airways shuttle.

    They’ll hook you up with a creme; no needles.

    From what I’ve read though if you want to do it seriously you’re much better off just sucking it up and injecting once per week. No liver damage that way.

    You looking to make it a permanent lifestyle change or cycle on and off or what?

    I’m about your age and was thinking of doing one 12 week cycle. Put on about 15 lbs of permanent muscle then just keep up with the exercise and diet to keep the T levels high until I get to 45 or so. Reassess then.

    I’d be really interested in info about availability too. All the message boards I’ve read have rules that specifically prohibit giving any info about sources so if you’re going to buy online it’s a gamble.

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  161. on August 8, 2008 at 5:57 pm Patrick Bateman

    roissy

    All I know is what I’ve come across in my research. Compared to testosterone, stanozolol (winstrol) is more anabolic and less androgenic i.e. It will concentrate more in your muscles than in your prostate. It does not convert into estrogen because it has an extra ring protecting the A ring that aromatase would need to convert. However, that extra ring takes the place of a ketone that provides much of the favorable interaction between androgens and the human androgen receptor (hAR), so stanozolol has a much lower binding affinity to the hAR.

    I know almost nothing about the market in steroids. Stanozolol survives the liver pretty well so you could take it orally.

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  162. on August 8, 2008 at 6:04 pm Patrick Bateman

    so if you’re going to buy online it’s a gamble.

    I don’t have any hook-ups where I live, but I spend most of my time around academics. Back when I was more dedicated to working out and went to a real gym, I met people all the time who let me know they could find steroids if I wanted them. I doubt you go to a university gym like me, so you should be able to tell who the guys are in your gym that take roids. Get to know them and you should be fine.

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  163. Roissy, why don’t you instead work on your personality a little more?

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  164. As you might guess, I find each and every one of you steroid quaffers or wannabes really pathetic. Madison Avenue endorsed and societally approved narcissism! Which reminds me a remake of The Picture of Dorian Gray will be out next fall. Dorian would be considered normal today.

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  165. on August 11, 2008 at 5:59 am Steve Johnson

    “As you might guess, I find each and every one of you steroid quaffers or wannabes really pathetic.”

    Wow. That really hurts.

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  166. on August 12, 2008 at 4:49 pm Sara saw Fight Club and got laid last night.S Got

    165 Steve Johnson

    I love me a sarcastic man. *sigh*

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  167. on August 12, 2008 at 4:51 pm Sara saw Fight Club and got laid last night

    Am trying to fix my name…..testing

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  168. DF 41 —

    so one wonders whether she has confronted the reality of her guilded cage

    Who says it’s such a cage. A lot of guys with that kind of age disparity, and in fact much less than that yawning chasm, would let their hot chicka play around some with younger guys, as long as she did it discretely, and in ways he gave permission to. She might have to tell him all in great detail, as an erotic part of that play.

    Actually that’s the kind of thing a guy in his 50s might do with a super hottie in her 20’s and maybe even 30s.

    There are advantages to both sides to this, and it’s also a mistake to assume it means she’s soley into the older guy for the money. He may also give her a secure and truly loving emotional base which most women need or anyway GREATLY desire after awhile, from which to more safely (emotionally) play with very bad boys too. That doesn’t preculde her having very hot and loving sex with her older husband also.

    I do have a hard time getting my head around a twenty something and a seventy something for anything other than mercenary reasons though. However, if it would ever be more, a NE Asia girl is the type to do it with. They truly are culturally trained that way far more than others.

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  169. I tried to kill myself on my 35th birthday because I hated myself and felt hopeless from knowing about all the hate coming from men like Roissy and from popular culture towards aging women.

    If I had succeded all the people that love me would have experienced a lot of pain and would have missed me for the rest of their lives…

    Think about that when you express so much disgust towards people for such ridiculous reasons.

    People have more worth than just their ability to make the opposite sex horny.

    Maybe one day you will have a family and understand what I am talking about…

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  170. People have more worth than just their ability to make the opposite sex horny.

    And yet, for some reason, your lack of this ability drove you to the brink of suicide. Odd, isn’t it?

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  171. No. Once I realized what the ramifications would have been had I died I was forced to see life in a different way…

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  172. And just for the record, men don’t merely get “chubbies” with me in bed of this I am sure.

    However, I haven’t accepted anyone’s invitation for sex in over a year because I am so hyperaware of all the small ways I have aged that I know I wouldn’t enjoy sex with anyone (if you don’t feel sexy there is no point).

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  173. Zarathustra, you might want to read the book you named yourself after.

    …although this would kind of be pointless for a tool.

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  174. Your article disgusts me. Not because its premise is untrue (no woman is deluded enough not to know how life will treat her beyond youth) but because of your utter blindness to women’s awareness on the subject and the implications of a system that your appear to endorse.

    Here, you have put what all women already know and have to deal with every day of their lives in extremely stark and unforgiving terms in no helpful context. I have no idea what you hoped to achieve by packaging this as ‘new information’, other than giving you the chance to revel in the obvious hurt it will cause to the female readers. You’ve succeeded well in invoking that response simply by reminding us of this aspect of world we live in, but to suggest that women are deluded about their rapidly deteriorating “worth” in the first place is what I find offensive in the extreme: on the contrary, we are prisoners to it.

    So, I would like to put a question to the author. To me, your view (which I accept is the standard one) has some dangerous implications, and by stating these facts of life in such accepting (if not approving) terms you are tacitly approving. Say, for example, a woman in your “older” age group is in a damaging or abusive relationship. We don’t even have to put it that strongly – lets just say a relationship that is not as supporting to her general sense of wellbeing as it could be. According to your cynical scale of ‘market value’, should she then remain in this situation because she will never do any better? At what point should this end? Or, should she get out of that relationship only to enter into the wasteland that you observe is waiting for her? Should she accept that she has ‘failed’ and become one of the depressed cat women that you mock in your article?

    Disclaimer: before any accusations of personal insecurities are thrown at me, I readily declare and accept that yes, I am very personally insecure as any woman in my situation (your ‘past it’ age group) would be, so invite you to do so if you believe it’s relevant.

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  175. Anon,
    W/all due respect-and I don’t deign to speak for Roissy here-I don’t think that was his point at all. I think he’s merely pointing out a fact of life, that Women over a certain age simply don’t weild the sexual power they once had, and should plan their moves w/this reality in mind. That’s it.

    For my part, I have no problem with an older Woman, provided she takes care of herself, but if the comments made by a clear majority of the Male members of this venue say anything, my view is clearly in the Minority. It is, what it is.

    And of course, no Woman should remain in an abusive relationship/marriage, etc. But I think you might be mixing apples and oranges, wrt Roissy’s original contention.

    The Obsidian

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  176. Obsidian> He is pointing out a fact of life, and one I sadly believe to be largely true. I did not miss that point…

    My problem with his stating of this fact here is that he is doing so from the ill-informed position of thinking that women are not accutely aware of their perilously short shelf-life.

    On the contrary, a good many women remain in situations that are emotionally or physically damaging for this reason alone. Others still suffer depression and lonliness as he delightfully illustrates with his ‘fluffy’ example.

    Essentially, the sole purpose of this post seems to be to remind women in the most unforgiving terms that we cannot win. If we defy the prevailing reality (as some stronger women than me can do) and try our best to be desirable after the first flushes of youth we are deluded, proud creatures to be despised and brought down. If we are as upset at becoming rejects at an age when many men are still living the lives of adolescents and trying to date younger women, then we are pathetic, sad creatures to be pitied.

    What can we do about this? F*** knows. But to present these harsh realities as ‘news’ to women is both unnecessary and extremely insulting.

    I would now be fascinated to learn what the author of this perfectly crafted bit of cynicism would consider an “appropriate” response to aging by a single woman to be.

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  177. “I would now be fascinated to learn what the author of this perfectly crafted bit of cynicism would consider an “appropriate” response to aging by a single woman to be.”

    I’m expecting an answer involving suicide.

    If the mating game is so competitive you would think some guy would be smart enough to try and extols the virtues of older women so he could have more of the ones to himself!

    And how is this type of hatred any different than hatred for blacks for example? Maybe one day hatred like this will only be found amoung rednecks whom everyone looks down upon.

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  178. […] lust in their eyes. Now, even the beta males don’t want them. They are forced to settle, and settle hard. If they […]

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  179. I have the feeling you are mostly quite jaded, spoilt, insecure, out of tune with the current zeitgeist, American men. Forgive me if I have the feeling you are American!! Obviously most of you have a hard time with women young and old? Here you can voice your bitterness and revenge. Shame!

    Obviously you forget there are a bunch of ‘younger’ men out there who respond well to ‘older’ women because they have been brought up in a single household run by the mother! There is a new breed of younger men who are more confident and sophisticated than you can begin to scratch your shoddy dicks with!!!

    Please go back to your cave because we sure as hell don’t need you OR want you!!!

    Come on girls..stick up for yourselves and don’t let these ugly men get the better of you

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  180. […] with, other than that younger women tend to be better lubed and quicker to cum than older women. (Older = 30+). I’ve been fortunate (or extremely skilled) that most of the women I’ve banged had no […]

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  181. […] she can best score a top quality man. As she ages, her choices reduce. By 34 she hits her “Wile E Coyote” moment when her SMV is close to zero. There’s no chance of scoring Mr Big then. […]

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  182. What’s astonishing, is that it all can be reversed to talk about the 5 stages of omega grief:
    Denial
    “Game doesn’t work”
    “I am 25 and hot”
    “Girls love geeks”
    Anger
    “All women are whores”
    “Girls only love jerks and screw the nice guys are over”
    Bargaining
    “If I get a high-end job girls will like me”
    “If I go to the gym, girls will like me”
    “I am smart funny and intelligent”
    Depression
    “Bawww I am a virgin I’ll never find a girl”
    Acceptance
    “That 250 lbs girl living next door who plays World of Warcraft and eats Cheetos recently started shaving her legs again… who knows I might give that a shot”

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  183. Meant *screw the nice guys over*

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  184. […] You can also date washed up cougars who have lost all hope that they’ll get married, but really, why would you want to do that? […]

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