Alpha Assessment: The Frame Game

Reader Ace recalls some text and messaging conversations he had with a couple of girls:

Conversation via facebook with ex (HB 8). I’m new to game and recently unplugged from the matrix.

Me: Read through some old messages on MySpace. Fun stuff
Her: O gosh. I can only imagine!
Me:You had quite the attitude punk! And I was such a charmer
Her: Probably… and no. lol
Me: Oh really? It’s no wonder you fell for me SOO hard. Lucky girl
Her: Haha whatever you say
Me: 100 reasons why you love (My name) Found that the other day. You make me out to be a badass ha
Her: HAhaha I was sweet. I remember my little notes you wrote me everyyyyday
Me: Yeah you were. I know, I was a tool
Me: Pretty sure the biggest reason we dated was because our lips fit really well together.

No response. I know I shouldn’t have initiated contact with an ex because I should be spreading my demon seed to other girls.
Jacta est.

Conversations via text with HB 9 from work. Had a boyfriend during the first two conversations.

Me: Am I going to see you at the cliffs tomorrow?
Her: No I got class 9 to 4
Me: Skip class, I’m much more fun
Her: I skipped last week lol. I don’t want to have to make up my hours again.
Me: Well I think you should, it’d be for a good cause. What’d you skip class for last week?
Me: And by good cause, I mean you would get to see me
Her: For extra sleep lol
Me: Haha your excuse for missing class tomorrow is much better

Conversation with the same girl via text after I ran into her earlier that night at a club.

Me: You wobble like a white girl babe
Her: Yeah because I have no butt!!
Me: Lol true, which means you’re just gonna have to win me over with your personality
Her: Haha! I already won.
Me: Lol and what on earth makes you think that?
Her: I am kind of a genius lol
Me: Lol well if that’s the case, that’s a definite plus, but don’t think for a minute that just because you’re easy on the eyes that I’m impressed
Me: If you want any chance of “winning” I need to know more about the setup you have going on in that genius head of yours
Her: I have a boyfriend so I must be doing something right lol
Me: And I have a dog, that doesn’t necessarily mean that I’m doing something right lol
Her: dog? boyfriend? … difference lol.
Me: Both entertain you when you’re bored, both keep you company when you’re alone, both do what you tell them to lol
Her: HAHAHAHA! I love that comparison, but I don’t keep my “dog” on a leash lol.
Me: Lol fair enough, but I still wouldn’t say you’re winning..he’s not me
Her: You must not know him then because he is bad ass lol. trust me I am winning.
Me: Lol but be that as it may, he’s not me. That aside, I just want to be friends
Her: Well duhh I know that. You just like picking on me lol.
Me: Haha cause youre such a good sport, and you fire back occasionally, which i like
Her: HAHA! yeah I bet you do lol.

Conversation after I ran by her on the trail.

Me: You looked like you could use a running buddy today
Her: Haha! I thought that was you!!
Me: Honestly, I kind of thought you were a black girl from afar…except for your butt!
Her: Shut up hahaha!

All of these conversations were prior to my unplugging.

“Prior to my unplugging” means, I presume, prior to his introduction to game concepts and material. “Ace” may correct me if I’m presuming wrongly. And so what we have here are texts and messages that Ace sent in his pre-game state to girls, and he wants to know if they are exemplary of natural alpha male mojo.

There’s no need to bother with a line-by-line analysis of Ace’s badinage. The alphatude lessons contained therein aren’t specific to any one line; they are derived from a general vibe that his conversational technique emits.

And the lesson I take from this stream of conversation is a simple one: Teasing, playfulness, negs and challenges cannot make up for a loss of frame.

It’s frame first, frame now, frame forever. You lose the frame, and you are perpetually crouched in the defensive posture, playing by the girl’s rules, dancing to her beat, singing her tune, spasmodically twitching on her puppeteer strings, and all the while driving her desire into a ditch.

Some of you newbs may be wondering what I’m talking about. You read Ace’s “comebacks” and you think it shows tight game.

“It’s no wonder you fell for me SOO hard.”

Newbie says: He’s challenging her and flipping the script, making it seem like she chased him! Isn’t that game?

Well, yes, that is game, in the particulars. But it has to be viewed in context, and the context here is of a man trying too hard (and too frequently) in his insistence that his ex couldn’t get enough of him.

“And by good cause, I mean you would get to see me”

Newbie says: He’s making himself the prize. Isn’t that game?

Again, context matters. Yes, having an “I am the prize” mentality is a core game concept, but in this context it falters because Ace has had to repeat his assertions of prize-worthiness to an obviously uninterested girl. Prize-worthiness is best left implied rather than forcefully asserted.

“Lol fair enough, but I still wouldn’t say you’re winning..he’s not me”

Newbie says: Boyfriend destroyer! Aloof attitude! That’s gotta be tight game.

A man indifferent to a woman’s “I have a boyfriend” shit test is not a man who writes, count ’em, four lengthy texts telling a girl how much her boyfriend doesn’t matter to him. Yes, he’s cocky and funny and unapologetic, but he’s also giving the impression of a guy who can’t stop himself from parrying a girl’s volleys, even as she is clearly enjoying the back and forth.

“That aside, I just want to be friends”

Newbie says: Disqualification! Come on, that’s definitely game.

Sure, when the disqualification is not appended to the end of a huge text conversation where he pretty much tacitly confessed his sexual interest in the girl. DQs simply don’t work when burdened by such incongruence.

“Honestly, I kind of thought you were a black girl from afar…except for your butt!”

Newbie says: Neg! Gotta be game.

Yes, it was a neg (sort of)… which reminded her that he remembered their earlier conversation about her butt. She knows he’s smitten.

In the final analysis, Ace’s pre-unplugged game is a great example of an aspiring womanizer “getting” the nuts and bolts of game, but not being able to assemble the pieces into a coherent whole. Both girls established the frame and held it almost the ENTIRE TIME. The result is that Ace managed to come off like a superficially suave man of great earnestness who was happily obliging the girls’ conversational maneuverings and performing for their applause. Not a beta, not quite an alpha.

If a girl has set the frame, your job is to avoid getting entrapped by it as quickly as possible, and often this will mean completely changing the subject if you are not getting the desired responses from the girl. For example:

Her: I have a boyfriend so I must be doing something right lol
You: And I have a dog, that doesn’t necessarily mean that I’m doing something right lol
Her: dog? boyfriend? … difference lol.
You: [next day] gonna be at [place x]. go there, we’ll chat like humans.

Or:

Her: I have a boyfriend so I must be doing something right lol
You: [hours later] saw a man get a pedicure today. not sure what made me think of that.

A lot of guys new to game get so excited with the powerful pickup tools at their disposal that they tend to overuse them at the cost of missing the context in which they are being used. What then usually happens is that girls enjoy their unconventional rapport but never quite feel that rush of burning desire that truly aloof men effortlessly evoke in them. Eventually, the barrage of overworked game tactics veers into spergland, and the girl will actually start to get turned off by this “go nowhere” man who shucks and jives like a properly trained court jester.

Setting the frame and avoiding antagonists’ frames are critical to seduction, both of women and of electorates.

UPDATE

How could we forget the best frame setter/frame breaker/frame interruptor ever?

Her: I have a boyfriend so I must be doing something right lol
You: gay





Comments


  1. Liam Neeson is hung like a horse.

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  2. I think by unplugging he means he’s no longer boinking black girls, just white women.

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  3. on November 19, 2012 at 4:35 pm Holden Caulfield

    I like this analysis because its a concrete example of the mistakes made when one is trying too hard to use the formulaic tools indiscriminately. CH is right: alpha frame first, make her follow your lead, then the tools in the toolbox are very effective.

    Speaking of alpha frame and ease of getting ass: Petraeus slut Paula Broadwell probably thinks her affair “just happened” In any case, she’s very sad about it:

    http://gma.yahoo.com/friend-says-broadwell-regrets-damage-petraeus-affair-072319104.html

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  4. “It’s frame first, frame now, frame forever”

    What’s really important is realizing that this is true for everything. Every aspect of a man’s life.

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  5. sounded try hard like other would be alpha texters we’ve read, where they spent the time texting in bragging about their alphaness. That sort of try hard bragging may come off as self-deprecating sarcasm about how it’s absurd you’re so awesome.

    Good obs about how femmel frame was held the entire time.

    I think a guideline is, if it’s more than 5 words, you’re losing.

    Me: Lol well if that’s the case, that’s a definite plus, but don’t think for a minute that just because you’re easy on the eyes that I’m impressed
    Me: If you want any chance of “winning” I need to know more about the setup you have going on in that genius head of yours

    (52! words) dude needed more one word answers.

    Also

    Her: I have a boyfriend so I must be doing something right lol

    Me: Very proud of u

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    • This stubborn “text game” angle sounds grotty to me, the wishful thinking of Xbox owners, but I’m old hat. Bottom line:

      You will NEVER seal the deal via text message. K.I.S.Stupid
      Get her somewhere via text message, then recommence reality.

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  6. ,..and how do you establish frame? You rely less on Buffers like texts, IM and email and more on actual face time. I understand text Game can be effective, but establishing frame requires physical presence. You can maintain frame via text, but you cannot establish frame via texting.

    One of the reasons ‘bring the movies’ was effective was that frame was already present when the guy laid that one down.

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    • Agreed, my txt game is solid but I prefer face to face…the problem is here in 2012 getting the face to face is a lot harder than 10, even 5 years ago. Girls have a thousand “arm’s length” buffers from Facebook to txting before having to actually interact and the reality is that guys these days need to adapt and figure out how to overcome that gauntlet.

      A few of my beta buddies are on cloud 9 when they get a girl’s Facebook. Guess how many of those girls they’ve fucked lol 😛

      I won’t even take a Facebook add and honestly these days I’m starting to reject # exchanges and just shoot for the now or never. As soon as she exchanges #s she knows she’ll have another chance with you. If you can’t be reached again it puts pressure on her to get with the program or miss out forever.

      Still experimenting with it, personally. I still go for the # if its a short set and I didn’t have time to build much comfort.

      I definitely feel for guys these days tho. When I started out we only had to worry about getting her to pick up the phone and pretty much if she answered the phone she was interested enough to meet up. Now there are way more obstacles to a face to face.

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      • “I definitely feel for guys these days tho. When I started out we only had to worry about getting her to pick up the phone and pretty much if she answered the phone she was interested enough to meet up. Now there are way more obstacles to a face to face.”

        Nice comments. I’ve said several times how glad I am to have left the sexual market when I met my wife, waayyyyy back in ancient history (the late 2000s, heh), just as texting/social media really exploded. In just a few years, the mating dance seems to have vaulted from a simple game of checkers to a three-dimensional massive multi-level holographic intergalactic chess tournament.

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      • Marriage is no escape from the sexual marketplace.

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      • Ya Really,

        what do you think of popping up on blatantly on purpose in front of a girl if you suspect she would enjoy it?

        I’ve done it and have had good results.
        Of course, I’m so beta that these good results wouldn’t be considered good by your standards.

        Still, some alpha friends of mine were impressed on how “ballsy” the move was.
        What do you think?

        Shit, nobody reads this anymore…

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  7. “Me: You wobble like a white girl babe”

    So I assume that “Ace” is a nigger.
    I’m not really in the mood of starting a race war, but I’m just a messenger of Truth.

    “Ace is a nigger”. Explain and discuss.

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    • Not sure this black widow wouldn’t have killed the dude who knocked her up too, or if you can classify the guys she killed as beta and her baby daddy as alpha.

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  8. First thing I noticed was the amount of words Ace was using. Long texts aren’t necessarily all bad, but if he is consistently doing the ‘chatting’ he is losing. The third text I stopped reading. Too long.

    The texts shouted ‘trying too hard’…they weren’t cloying or super-beta (he had some humour and a few good negs in there) but the overall tone was one of convincing too much.

    Less texting, more time between messages and an attempt at face time will help. Basically, women are naturals at being chased. Men have to show they are vaguely interested but not sufficiently so that they have to chase. Essentially, they have options.

    “I’ll be at X is a good way to go (and have a backup plan if she doesn’t show…make sure it’s somewhere you will enjoy regardless).

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  9. “Her: dog? boyfriend? … difference lol.

    Me: Both entertain you when you’re bored, both keep you company when you’re alone, both do what you tell them to lol”

    Stealing the FUCK out of this line holy shit lol but I run pretty verbal game so this kind of thing fits my vibe. What a fucking nuke lol I love it.

    Far as this guys game goes its actually not THAT bad compared to some pure betas I know. This is actually along the lines of what newbie PUAs look like…you know, the ones that girls come on here saying “I totally shot this PUA down he was so try-hard blah blah” as if they’d even comprehend when someone GOOD was running game on them.

    His shit would actually be decently tight, except he commits errors 14 and 18 in Tyler’s 25 Point Checklist:

    http://www.rsdnation.com/node/60062

    Technically CH is saying he fucks up with error 24 as well, but honestly I think that one was okay to remember because it was something to tease her about. ie – it becomes call-back humor and a running joke (like a nickname) vs remembering like “I know you love fish so something something sushi”.

    His “I’m more fun” type stuff starts out good, but he stays on that thread for too long and keeps coming back to it (Tyler’s checklist) so it fucks the vibe up and goes from cocky/funny into try-hard and forces her into a logical conversation where she has to logically defend her choice to go to school/work or see her boyfriend.

    This guy needs to keep in mind the “Change her mood, not her mind.” PUA rule.

    He’s starting from a decent foundation though. If he learns some calibration and when to cut threads and push/pull and he’ll be killing it.

    Good txt convo to post up, there’s a lot of subtle things going on in it to discuss because like CH says it SEEMS like it should be good game but guaranteed almost everyone reading it went from “hmm not BAD…” to squirming in their seat lol

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    • on November 19, 2012 at 5:56 pm The Latent Sadist

      Exactly right. Like looking at myself a year and a half ago. And yes the cutting threads is absolutely key…thats when my game took flight. Once you internalize how important it is to set the frame and how deflated girls get when they control it….youll start cutting threads naturally and ignoring her attempts to frame you in undesirable ways. Internalizing it is usually the result of watching girls trap you into losing the frame, then brushing you off, OVER and OVER until you catch on. You start becoming real good at spotting the moments where you need to ignore her, or reframe. They are built to see if you get this, or dont

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      • “youll start cutting threads naturally and ignoring her attempts to frame you in undesirable ways.”

        This is actually a really important point so I wanted to quote it. A lot of guys don’t realize that one way to win a frame battle is to simply not participate at all. For example:

        You: “we should hang out friday. 8pm work for you?”
        Her: “lol I have yoga class then…besides i have a boyfriend”
        You: “putting images of you bending over and stretching in yoga pants is not helping me not want to bang you.”
        Her: “omg you’re terrible! besides you should take me out to dinner first”
        You: “is this where I make innuendo about eating out?”
        Her: “omg lolololz”

        etc. like you acknowledge the threads that help you progress the sarge toward your goal, and you ignore and cut any threads that don’t directly help you because if you get sucked into them, you’re going to end up getting sucked into her frame. In the above example, if you get into a logical conversation about her boyfriend or about buying dinner etc, EVEN if you’re teasing her about how you don’t buy girls dinner etc., you’re falling into her frame.

        This actually touches on another big concept, so big I’mma make a little heading for it:

        Logical Conversation Killing State
        ——————————————-

        A girl who’s buying temperature is spiking out of control will try to get you into a logical conversation so that she can be un-attracted for a few minutes and her BT can settle back down. She’s actually trying to throw herself OUT of attraction because her subconscious knows “o shit, I’m gonna’ end up fucking this guy, mayday mayday!! Throw something at him! Get him to not be so attractive!!”

        This is why they shit-test guys they’re actually attracted to and why when you flawlessly pass their shit-test, they get even MORE attracted, because they threw the anchor down and thought they’d be safe for a second and then realized the anchor wasn’t tied to the boat and their adrenaline spikes up even higher than before when they realize they’re even MORE fucked.

        This is part of why they go to the bar in groups and have Mother Hens and Girls’ Night Out rules and shit. Because they subconsciously know they can’t control themselves once their BT is spiking like that, so they rely on the other girls in their group to notice and jump in and fuck it up for them. That’s why the other girls will try to fuck with your state by insulting you, or try to get you into logical discussions/arguments over trivial shit, or try to shit-test you with “you should buy her a drink” etc. to get you to stutter and fall out of state etc. so their girl’s BT can settle down.

        And if that doesn’t work, they’ll just flat out drag the girl away (“we have to go to the bathroom!!” “let’s go Sarah, your BOYFRIEND is outside!!” etc.) and get her away from you so her BT can settle.

        This is also why sometimes you’ll have a girl going and then she gets dragged away and then you see her again and you THINK you can just pick up where you left off but BAM, cold shoulder of doom. Why? Because she’s regained her composure and her BT has settled and now she’s in control of her faculties again and, on top of it, she knows to be extra wary around you because you’re capable of spiking her BT off the charts.

        If she has approval to fuck you (ie – no one will know, her friends won’t judge her, she just broke up with her BF and needs a rebound, she’s on vacation, it’s Halloween, etc. etc.), she’ll be receptive when you approach her again…but if she’s got her friend in the bathroom pointing at her wedding ring telling her “remember James, you promised him you wouldn’t cheat again!! I’m txting him if you make out with that guy!!” etc., she’s gonna’ be a cold fish when you come back.

        Now the other fun part to this is that this can actually be used to AMOG other guys too, and take girls off them. If it’s going well for a guy, and for whatever reason you need to cockblock him (he’s approaching girls you’re already gaming, or he’s just a dick, or your buddy is approaching his girls and you have to distract him, or he’s got more looks/height/money/etc. than you and you want an edge etc.), just get him into a logical conversation with you. Talk about anything, sports, the bar, alcohol, whatever…all you’re doing is keeping him from spiking her BT till it settles back down and then he’s got to start all over again, but generally doesn’t realize that, and she’s suddenly cold on him and he’s wondering wtf just happened because he thought it was a done deal.

        If you want to take her off him, combine that with spiking her BT. Like if you have a wingman, have him get the guy into a logical conversation while you spike the girl’s BT and you can pretty much just walk off with her. This is extra potent if that guy was already spiking her BT so you’re approaching a set where the girl is already horny and attracted…Tyler calls it “making the girl follow the next shiny thing…now it’s over here, follow it, follow the shiny thing!!” lol

        Didn’t expect to get into this topic, but hey there you go lol

        To relate it to this article’s txt exchanges, note that the vibe is alright when he’s spiking her BT, but then he gets stuck in logical conversation trying to convince the girls of whatever, and the vibe shoots back down and he’s toast.

        Like


      • Aright so what would be a good way to counter-step your AMOG tactic if it was used on us in the field? (AMOG trying to engage me in a logical convo)

        1) Telling the AMOG that ” we’re trying to have fun bro and not to be so serious” ?

        Also, how do you side-step a girl trying to engage you in logical convo in the field?

        1) (example) Her: What do you do for a living?

        I could see noobs (like me) seeing the girl steering the convo into somewhere logical/safe as a sign to take it into comfort/rapport and to drop the cocky/funny/sexual banter.

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      • Handle it exactly how you said. 🙂

        For a guy I’ll either ignore him completely if I know he’s not her friend or whatever so it’s okay to be rude, or I’ll drag the girl away from him (sometimes I’ll literally just pick her up, arms around her thighs, and carry her away).

        Or if I have to engage him it’s shit like “cool man, I dunno, so anyway…(back to the girl)” or “no idea dude I’m way too drunk for that lol so anyway…(back to the girl)”

        If I see an opportunity to get him to qualify himself to me, I’ll take it and then bail, because it raises my value. “Oh ya man that’s a cool job you must make a ton of money doing that hey?” “uhh well it’s pretty good I mean, I’m still entry level so…” “Aw that’s still awesome man, hang in there and drunk slutty bitches like this one (wink at her and receive a “hey!!!!” arm-punch) will be all over you. (Focus on her) awww I’m just kidding (hug her), I love you, god you’re feisty you must be a handful in bed.”

        Along with that you use some body language to block the guy out (turn her slightly or step to the side so she has to turn to face you and faces her back to the guy) until he feels the social pressure of being “the lurker” and leaves or until you spike her BT enough that you can just grab her hand on a spike and drag her away “to get a drink” etc.

        With girls you can be a lot more direct..with guys you’re trying to get rid of him without giving him a justifiable reason to hit you lol so you have to be polite and acknowledge him sometimes before discarding him.

        Polite version:
        Girl: “So what do you do?”
        You: “Get into trouble, mostly. I’m surprised you haven’t slapped me yet. You’re not like other girls.”
        Girl: “lol noooo I mean what do you do for a living”
        You: “you know what I DON’T work all week long to do when I come out to a bar on Friday to relax? Talk about WORK. Come on, let’s go dance.”

        Or for a negging/qualifying version:
        Girl: “What do you do for a living?”
        You: “God, why do girls all ask the same questions?? Is this city just full of gold-diggers or what? Ask me something INTERESTING.”

        Or for a rude frame-control based version:
        Girl: “What do you do for a living?”
        You: “Why are you talking about that at a BAR? It’s a BAR, we’re here to have FUN. Quit being WEIRD. I need to relax after the day I had, I was…(insert story, tease, topic change, etc)”

        The main concept to wrap your head around is this:

        She doesn’t REALLY care what you do for a living. She will make out with you (and sometimes fuck you) without knowing what you do, what your name is, how old you are, etc. If you two are one-on-one alone and the vibe is quietened down like you’re on a couch together cuddling and she asks you, answer her…but understand that in the initial attraction stages when you meet, NONE of that shit is relevant.

        The only reasons she’s asking it is 1) to get you into her frame where she can cool her BT and avoid fucking you and/or 2) because she’s trying to show her interest in you but girls have shitty Nice Guy interview mode game so this is the only way she knows how to express her interest…she doesn’t care what you do for a living, she just knows “ask questions about him to show him I like him” so you can answer with anything and she’ll like you. In both cases, the same “ignore and change subjects” tactic is optimal.

        A looooooooooooot of guys in field get caught by the logical conversation trap. Especially the really good-looking guys who’ve gotten by with weak game because of their looks. A girl will be into them but instinctively try to snuff her own spiking BT down and hold the frame so she can avoid acting slutty, and the dude will fall into her frame because he doesn’t really understand game.

        Then a PUA who gets all this swoops in, logicizes him, spikes her, and runs off into the night with her.

        Places like Leicester Square in London have a reputation of being AMOG Central…even if you get your girl out of the bar with you at 2am, you have to get through a gauntlet of dudes all trying to take her off you. It’s a total shit-show and you can lose your girl because those guys can smell “blood in the water” that she’s attracted and will move in on her.

        “Ohhh well I do MMA you just scowl at them and punch them bro!! If they tried that with my tough buddy he’d kill them grr gre mental masturbation.”

        No, cause what happens is buddy goes “Hey you got a smoke?” to the girl and she’s spinning in heaven from all the attention she’s getting so she goes “sure!!” and CHOOSES to chat with this “Nice Guy” and he turns her body language away from you and is totally polite and friendly, maybe asks you a few logical questions then ignores you as he teases her and she jumps on him, etc and now you’ve lost your lay. You can’t punch him because she’s CHOOSING to hang with him and wants you all to get along and you’ll lose her if you punch him.

        Guys who don’t go out won’t understand any of this lol

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      • I want to add that when a girl asks “what do you do” it mostly means “what is your identity? Tell me something cool you do so I can brag about you to my friends”. The actual labor job you do to put money in your bank account is not what she wants to hear.

        One of my gfs friends was telling us about her new boyfriends who is a “playwright”. Cool. a little while later she tells us that hecouldnt come out that night because he is working…. at his job as a waiter. To the world, the guy waits tables. To the girl he sticks his dick in, he is Tennessee Williams.

        The “what do you do” question usually comes out when you’ve teased and demonstrated frame and she’s starting to feel tingles and wants to attach them to you. If you answer with ” well I work at (shitty job) but I’m going to school for X and…” you just invalidated the attraction she felt for you.

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      • “I could see noobs (like me) seeing the girl steering the convo into somewhere logical/safe as a sign to take it into comfort/rapport”

        Also I meant to address this specifically too: comfort/rapport is for when you already have her attracted AND you have isolation. I don’t remember the Mystery Method steps off-hand but I believe in it attraction comes before comfort and that’s the reason. So when you’re first flirting and she asking stupid shit, you’re still in attraction. It’s later on when you’ve put in some time and you guys have a solid connection and you’ve got her isolated on a couch at the bar or a corner of the room at a house party or separate room or you’re walking together to a late night food place after the bar or simply you get into her group of friends and they all leave you alone or leave you two to watch the booth/table etc etc.

        Before that, it’s a trap she doesn’t even consciously know she’s setting. I guess one way to think of it is that YOU lead the interaction into comfort/rapport, not her. Her ASD is just trying to sabotage your sarge the whole time lol

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      • Your responses to the logical questions from a girl are golden thank you. The theories on why they prefer the shinier thing over the logical makes sense, I just needed some examples like those for it to really click.

        “Before that, it’s a trap she doesn’t even consciously know she’s setting”

        Boom, that makes more sense now. To avoid the usual direct answer that so many young finance monkeys give here in NYC, I’ve told a few girls that I live in my parents basement with a smirk or told them I work a 9-5 but also save old women in burning buildings and cats stuck in the trees during my spare time. At the risk of overgaming, I sometimes felt it “safer” to give the logical answer to make her feel like you’re a normal guy (zzzz). Fuck it though; it seems way better go the sexual/flirty route like you said so as to not get put in the nice guy category.

        I’m leaving this here more for the guys just starting out but if you can use it to your advantage then hey.

        If a girl and I get to talking about where we live in the city, I’ll disqualify them and steer the convo toward a flirty frame usually within the first 10min. So for the guys uncomfortable to lay the sexual frame early on this might work for them.

        *If the convo gets to finding out where each other lives*

        Her: What part of the city do you live in?
        Me: Upper West Side, you?
        Her: I live in xyz (Brooklyn, Hoboken, Queens, Stuytown, Upper West, UES, it doesn’t matter)
        Me: Oh, what a shame. We’d never work out…I don’t do long distance.

        I’ve used this over a dozen times and it has worked well for me. The girl might think you’re running “nice guy boring game” and then it’s like boom headshot. Didn’t see it coming. Who the fuck is this guy, disqualifying me like that? The closer they live to you the better/funnier/whatever it is.

        It’s weird almost every time I’ve used it, the interaction changes immediately and the girls try to qualify themselves to you or quantify the actual distance between your place and hers. This is amateur hour shit probably but I think it could work for the guys starting out. Maybe like a dipping-your-toes-in-water-first type thing until they get the confidence to drop the more direct/sexual ones.

        -IG

        Like


      • @immoralgables

        “To avoid the usual direct answer that so many young finance monkeys give here in NYC”

        This actually hits on one of the ironies of what people think is attractive to women.

        A guy studies and works hard to become a finance monkey because he’s told by blue-pillers “When a woman knows you’re successful and have money, she’ll be attracted to you.” So when she asks what his job is he literally thinks “oboy now I can tell her I’m an iBanker (or whatever) and she’ll be attracted because she’ll know I’m successful and have money!”

        How this actually plays out in real life (aka in the field) is the girl who WAS going to put out for him that night when she didn’t view him as a Provider and instead of just as a fun alpha who makes her wet, suddenly won’t put out anymore because now she wants to ride the Provider train which means making him wait 3 dates so he doesn’t think she’s a slut etc. and she can date him and have access to that stuff.

        The other way it plays out is golddiggers are into him, which is great if that’s what you want…but they like you for your money, not for you as a man…and god forbid someone with more money comes along or you lose your job.

        The last way it plays out is, if the guy is beta in general, he comes off as insecure and over-compensating and bragging and the girl rules him out as try-hard.

        So you become super successful and then realize “shit, I can’t even be up front about all my success or it fucks my results up!” and what happens? You start answering “What do you do for a living?” with stuff like “I don’t want to talk about work” and “Why do girls always ask that?” and “I work at Taco Bell and live in my parents’ basement” which they discover builds attraction.

        It’s like working to earn a Ferrari thinking you’ll drive it around and women will chase after it, and then realizing you can’t actually drive it around and have to leave it in the garage for girls to stumble across when they’re already into you lol

        “I’ve told a few girls that I live in my parents basement with a smirk or told them I work a 9-5 but also save old women in burning buildings and cats stuck in the trees during my spare time.”

        One of the oldest routines from old-school PUA (ie – before The Game) was Tyler Durden’s:

        “Where do I work? I work at Taco Bell. This month, I’m chopping the lettuce in the back. But next month, I’ve heard rumours, that I may be nominated employee of the month. And if you were to come in, you’d come in and see me….. that’s right – chalupa maker. You know what? We’ll work together. We’ll both wear the little paper hats. And we’ll look out (lock arms, and throw out your hand as if you’re demonstrating a sunset or something), and we’d see all those customers. They need us. We need to have the best tacos ready for these people, so that they can go out and do their jobs so that society can run smoothly. It’s all on us. We have to work together. We have to have each other’s backs. This taco life is no joke.”

        Now of course an uber Alpha KJ here will say “pfft that’s gay, I just tell them “hey suck my dick” and she does, what is this gay Taco Bell shit”. But this routine contains not qualifying himself to her, teasing, roleplaying, kino, creating an Us VS Them frame, variety of emotions (overdramatic sunset scene), creates an in-joke, etc. It’s jam-packed with good shit that speaks to a girl on an emotional level.

        “At the risk of overgaming, I sometimes felt it “safer” to give the logical answer to make her feel like you’re a normal guy (zzzz). Fuck it though; it seems way better go the sexual/flirty route like you said so as to not get put in the nice guy category.”

        Generally the way you want to balance this is: Give a cocky/funny answer the first time, MAYBE even the second time, but if she pushes it, answer straight up legit. The reason we start with a C&F answer is because like I mentioned before in the early stages of attraction she doesn’t actually give a shit about what you do for a living, she’s just saying that for the reasons I explained before. So you can C&F and change the subject and go into a roleplay or whatever and she isn’t phased by the transition because she never really cared what the answer was in the first place.

        But if she asks you again “No, but seriously, what do you do?” that’s her taking an actual interest in you, so then you want to open up and answer for real. A lot of guys will keep doing cocky/funny answers and drive it into the ground till the girl gets frustrated and bails because she was TRYING to build a connection with them lol It’s all a matter of calibration, which you learn in the field.

        “If a girl and I get to talking about where we live in the city, I’ll disqualify them and steer the convo toward a flirty frame usually within the first 10min.”

        Good stuff. I go more sexual (“where do you live?” “don’t pretend you don’t know, I saw you outside my bedroom window last night, perv.”) but yours is good for newbies to start testing out this dynamic. Suddenly your answering her question turns into you disqualifying her…and even if she wasn’t interested in the first place, she doesn’t want to be disqualified so she’ll try to qualify herself, and if she stays in that frame long enough then she starts to feel like she’s earned you as she slowly wins you over and then she fucks you not even because she wanted you at first but just because you ran solid game on her lol

        Tyler described it along the lines of “it’s like winning a prize in a box of crackerjacks, it’s just a stupid prize you wouldn’t objectively give a shit about, but you’ll still go collect it because hey, you earned it.”

        Like


  10. on November 19, 2012 at 5:34 pm The Latent Sadist

    Ugh. Such a frustrating phase. When you dirst start understanding the tactics…youll go way overboard. I remember that phase. Girls might chuckle or give you fleeting interest, but exactly, its the dancing to her tune that makes it all useless and ineffective. Context is everything.

    Like


  11. on November 19, 2012 at 5:42 pm The Latent Sadist

    I know you won’t post this and thats cool. But i wanted to acknowledge how well you keep the upper hand over rollo t. The dismissiveness of his terminology etc etc. Didnt go unnoticed and quite intelligent, wanted to tell ya that. His blog is great, but he tries way too hard sometimes to be mr cool blogger..and with subtle disagreements with your blog..annoys me. Dont know if you both rose to prominance at the same time or if he nipping at your heels, but i wanted to acknowledge it.

    Like


  12. http://www.bakadesuyo.com/2012/11/money-status/

    “A few years ago, a study was conducted in which participants were presented with pairs of hypothetical personal circumstances and asked to state their preferences. For example, people were asked to choose between earning $50,000 a year with others earning $25,000 and earning $100,000 a year with others earning $200,000. They were asked to choose between 12 years of education (high school) when others have 8, and 16 years of education (college) when others have 20. They were asked to choose between an IQ of 110 when the IQ of others is 90 and an IQ of 130 when the IQ of others is 150. In most cases, more than half of the respondents chose the options that gave them better relative position. Better to be a big fish, earning $50,000, in a small pond than a small fish, earning $100,000, in a big one.”

    Like


  13. One of my all time winners (h/t F&P, old school PUA)
    Me: going to Lure tonight. Should be wild.
    Her: Where’s that??
    Me: (next day) Hollywood, amazing place. Thought I died and went to heaven.
    Her: Where the heck was my invite???
    Me: Plate was full. Besides, hollywood’s not OC (She lives in OC)
    Her: WTH I was joking…

    closed 3 weeks later. In my bed told me “plate was full I lost it when you said that”

    Like


    • That’s solid.

      It’s kind of amazing how blatant you can be about (or bluff about) preselection. Obviously you don’t want to be some ‘sperger d-bag saying “I get so many chicks lolzlslsl”… but you can pretty clearly insinuate that you are spinning other plates without spooking most girls.

      Obviously, this isn’t news for many on this site. But it’s a hell of a thing when you first start to internalize it.

      Like


    • Nice. I’ll have to try that one.

      Like


    • Text messaging is a curse on humanity. Simple conversations taking more than a day! The sooner the asteroid comes, the better.

      Like


    • on November 20, 2012 at 10:04 am Hugh G. Rection

      OC? Don’t call it that.

      Like


  14. So. Many. Words.

    A man with options he ain’t.

    Like


    • on November 19, 2012 at 6:41 pm Full-Fledged Fiasco

      Exactly.

      And what’s the deal with all the lol’s? Not even YaReally use that many lol’s.

      Very aggravating.

      Like


      • I use SO many lols in txts with girls. Emoticons too. Bitches love winky-faces.

        Like


      • I know one guy who overuses lols but does great with girls. Also, one hot girl I know has had a boyfriend for six months, and he comes off like a total beta dweeb on FB, giving her flowers and stuff, but she still seems to adore him. Maybe he is alpha in other ways, but I haven’t seen them together in the flesh to know for certain.

        I guess it depends upon being alpha otherwise. A joie de vivre is sexy, and alpha (being stressed is beta!), but clownishness is not.

        Winky faces are good if what you say would come off as too harsh. Smiley faces, though… no way (unless you’re being ironic). And that goes triple for the = ), : o ), and ( : variants.

        Like


      • I feel like if a girl is using a lot of emoticons then its ok to use them as long as that usage doesn’t surpass hers.

        Kind of like the 2/3 ratio when it comes to investing in a convo with a girl over text

        Like


      • I go by this sort of. Like occasionally I’ll run into a girl who uses NO emoticons or laughs or anything. It’s rare but ill tone mine down with those girls because its just not how they communicate. Also those girls tend to want a dominant/serious man so I’ll focus on that angle too. Lots of commands and orders and “good girl.” type stuff. I find these girls boring usually lol haven’t noticed any kind of hotness correlation, it’s just certain rare personalities. Also sometimes they’ll start using MORE emoticons etc when they see me doing it which is falling into my frame as an ioi.

        To the guys who are like “but there’s no reason for the lols and winkys, what’s the PURPOSE?? It’s not alpha!!”, you have to remember the girl and I are communicating on an emotional level, not a logical one. A lot of what’s “silly” and “stupid” is spiking her Buying Temperature and building attraction. It’s not taking the convo seriously, it’s not falling into her frame, it’s not being needy and caring what the logical/right thing to say is…basically it’s showing that you know how to communicate the way girls do which says you’ve spent a lot of time around girls and you know you can just act retarded with them instead of trying to impress them.

        It’s not the ONLY way to txt of course, the “being the movies” stuff is cool too if that’s congruent to you, I’m just explaining why this style works.

        Like


      • on November 20, 2012 at 10:05 am Hugh G. Rection

        zlozlzolzolz works even better.

        Like


      • agreed on the winky-face

        😉

        Like


      • damn this one sucks though

        Like


      • on November 19, 2012 at 8:45 pm Full-Fledged Fiasco

        Jumbotron Test fail.

        Like


  15. Dr Phil has now apparently lost the frame (if he had any to begin with that is)

    http://womansday.ninemsn.com.au/celebrityheadlines/8565671/dr-phils-marriage-crisis

    or how money trumps frame perhaps

    Like


  16. His replies were often twice longer than the girls’. He tried too hard and his desperation got sniffed out. This is the incongruency that I see in many early PUAs, try-hard outter game but no inner game.

    Like


  17. Txt length is irrellevant.

    Like


  18. on November 19, 2012 at 6:44 pm Thasswhatimtalkinbout

    Love these kinds of posts. Really practical stuff that helps my improve.

    More, please.

    (And less why feminism, liberalism, fluoridated water explain Western Civ taking a screaming nosedive into the shitter.)

    Like


  19. When are you going to write abot the Edenist stuff that is being promoted on Koanic Soul, Excavating Eden, and Texas Arcane? Might we see the Thal/CroMag/Melon split emerge?

    Like


  20. Her: I have a boyfriend so I must be doing something right lol
    You: gay

    Ahhhhh: That neg brings back memories. Love it.

    I think the earlier version of himself could have learned quite a bit from that one line alone.

    Less truly is more.

    Like


  21. Hey there readership, I need some nice low key openers to use at college campuses and libraries n’shit. Rapport building/small talk …

    ‘Sperg ya latter.

    Like


  22. Once upon a time a Preacher-Man tried to trap me into a fight-to-the-death in regard to Religion.
    Finally, I told him; What I really believe in is an A Minor 9th.

    Like


    • “I believe the children are our future. Teach them well and let them lead the way, Show them all the beauty they possess inside, Give them a sense of pride to make it easier. Let the children’s laughter remind us how we used to be.

      I decided long ago, never to walk in anyone’s shadows. If I fail, if I succeed, At least I’ll live as I believe. No matter what they take from me They can’t take away my dignity, Because the greatest love of all Is happening to me. I found the greatest love of all Inside of me — The greatest love of all Is easy to achieve. Learning to love yourself It is the greatest love of all.”

      Don’t forget to say it with conviction.

      Like


  23. good game advice , chateau. Plz keep ’em comin

    Like


  24. […] Reader Ace recalls some text and messaging conversations he had with a couple of girls: Conversation via facebook with ex (HB 8). I’m new to game and recently unplugged from the matrix. Me: Read through some old messages on MySpace. Fun stuff Her: O gosh. I can only imagine! Me:You had quite the attitude punk! And I was such a charmer Her: Probably… and no. lol Me: Oh really? It’s no wonder you fell for me SOO hard. Lucky girl Her: Haha whatever you say Me: 100 reasons why you love (My name) Found that the other day. You make me out to be a badass ha Her: HAhaha I was sweet. I remember my little notes you wrote me everyyyyday Me: Yeah you were. I know, I was a tool Me: Pretty sure the biggest reason we dated was because our lips fit really well together. No response. I know I shouldn’t have initiated contact with an ex because I should be spreading my demon seed to other girls. Jacta est. Conversations via text with HB 9 from work. Had a boyfriend during the first two conversations. Me: Am I going to see you at the cliffs tomorrow? Her: No I got class 9 to 4 Me: Skip class, I’m much more fun Her: I skipped last week Source: Chateau Heartiste   […]

    Like


  25. This whole thing screams ‘NERD’ so hard, I need ear plugs.
    Fuck texting.
    Face time or NEXT.

    Like


  26. Great post. Frame (or more precisely, the inability to establish it by many a PUA) is the reason the haters think game is corny and stilted. Frame is indeed the lifeblood of game. Your reality, not hers.

    Like


  27. For crying out loud, NEVER say ‘haha’ in any correspondence, unless you are less than 12 years old.

    Like


  28. bring the movies

    Like


  29. Timing is everything. If you lose the “frame”, you need to find a way to reclaim it. Face-time, an excuse to get together, a party invite to something you’re doing or hosting. One way I’ve found is to take a photo of me and my game target, then send it. Girls love photos. If they’re interested, they’ll respond. If not, they won’t.

    Like


  30. on November 19, 2012 at 11:07 pm themaraudingmongol

    Frames are omnipresent. If you don’t control the frame, someone else will. Not just in dating, but in all interactions. Strongly believe that learning how to control frame is one of the most valuable skills a man can learn over the course of his life.

    Good article, thanks.

    Like


    • Any resources you suggest for overall frame control?

      Like


    • Yup. In every interaction there’s always someone reacting more to the other person, whether its 99:1 or 51:49. Take charge and control the frame and other people will fall into it. Hell, most people WANT someone to control the frame because they’ve been too pussified by society to want that responsibility themselves and they think its “rude”.

      One of the biggest improvements a 5’2″ buddy of mine made to his overall internal and external game was to start leading his group. Like deciding where to party, where to eat after, etc, everyone would be wishy-washy and shit wouldn’t happen or would be half-assed. I taught him how to spot that and that it’s okay and NECESSARY to step up and be the guy who says “HEY. Ok this is what we’re doing, you want this so we’ll go here and this place will be good so we’ll hit that at 11. Lets go.”

      And magically everyone falls in line and follows his lead. So internally he feels awesome and confident since he’s got a bunch of big jock good-looking dude types following him around like a boss (even some alpha guys who just have a weaker frame than he does now) and externally he looks badass because he’s leading the whole group and girls can tell.

      It doesn’t directly get him laid but it helped his game overall a ton. The main thing he needed to learn was that it was OKAY to take the frame and that other people NEED him to take the frame to get shit done.

      Like


  31. “Her: I have a boyfriend so I must be doing something right lol
    You: gay”

    I don’t care…, charming or maybe is my favorite lines.

    Who has the patience or time besides a leaky betas to text like that? Unless it’s to incite jealousy… but pictures are much better.

    IMO, phone call or nothing.

    Like


  32. Thank God, a gaming thread.

    Like


  33. Flirted with a girl at work for a few weeks. Found out she was leaving for college. She wanted my number. Gave it and told her I didn`t have minutes for my phone. She wrote her number down and gave it to me. Later she asked for my Facebook. Told her I didn`t have one. Fast forward a month and she comes back and finds me having drinks with some girls from work. Told her I still didn`t have phone minutes. She brings me to her house that night and I get the bang. Oversee her phone contacts the next morn and my name is in there with a ❤ next to it. Thanks Heartiste.

    Like


  34. This is my exact problem, I know the responses and what to say but I have shit frame control. Now I generally try to change the subject or just stop responding.

    Like


  35. I’ve been there before, and pulled it off by sheer luck at times but eventually you understand when you’re playing into a frame you, immediately change convo to a random absurd topic.

    Let me just say this though, if you’re starting off at this and you’ve got the number from a really hot chick who every guy fiends off, it’s very difficult to not want to please her in texts in some way.

    I went trough this exact same thing 2 yrs ago with a smoking hot blonde. Txting, teasing her, she wanted my facebook i replied with a simple ‘no’ etc. In the end she somehow stalked and added me (never accepted it), then called me on the phone to invite me out. Because i was a newb, she eventually sniffed it out and i lost all attraction. I needed captain hindsight to help me out then.

    Like


    • What does a simple “no” does to a girl, esspecially if she is dead persistant on it?
      I did it but screwed it with something else, so i couldn’t discern exactly…

      Like


  36. OT, but IMHO the new Keira Knightly movie is worthy of a CH analysis. Director really nailed it in a couple of spots, especially where Anna goes all in on the adultery –it’s a non-linear, hazy, illogical montage. Meanwhile, hubby is rational, ordered…. boring, and hadn’t put her in place/mate guarded her. I’m reminded of that post about that 50’s or 60’s soul/rb song, ‘He hit me and it was like a kiss’ or something. What’s the maxim? Females can’t be argued into or back into love? It’s got to be sort of fantastic and dreamy?

    Like


    • Seems he jumped from boring routine, to a new, much exciting one, and that’s what got her.
      It doesn’t necessarily has to be hitting her, but breaking the dull everyday usual behaviour is a must.

      Like


  37. What’s the maxim? Females can’t be argued into or back into love? It’s got to be sort of fantastic and dreamy?
    ——————-

    Tell her: “for men, only 2 peices of pussy count; his last or his next. Guess which one you ain’t?

    Like


  38. […] Alpha Assessment: The Frame Game […]

    Like


  39. That dude’s game was “Ducky Boy Game” from Pretty In Pink. Dude, watch Pretty In Pink again and realize this is how your text game sounds – way too excited, fast, and desperate. Before you rush off with that next text, imagine that picture Heartiste posted of that bloody vag to calm yourself, breathe deeply, and relax.

    Like


  40. An excellent response to the email; very well done

    Like


  41. …must be doing something right lol

    -nah

    Or…

    -bring the movies

    Like


  42. just had a text exchange with a girl I just banged last night by maintaining frame…

    Me: cab driver just spit a loogie into a roll of toilet paper

    Her: thanks for sharing

    Me: keep change lah

    Her: I just googled you and found a story you were quoted in

    Me: u cyber stalker

    Like


    • Women love to snoop… it’s the air they breathe.

      I often get “I didn’t know you could (this or that, still on some website from years ago, about which I had forgotten)… ”

      I reply matter-of-factly: “I am a master of many disciplines.” The Sphinx would envy my facial expression.

      Like


  43. on November 20, 2012 at 12:43 pm Full-Fledged Fiasco

    O.T.: but somehow always a topic: The Men Who Taste Jews in Their Sandwiches.

    Like


  44. What a cringe-worthy exchange. Nice example of frame > game. I still get uncomfortable reading or listening to male-female exchanges from men who haven’t realized their own value yet. I wish I could help them but I know they would just get defensive so I silently scream to myself. (You’re doing it WROOOOOOOOOOOOOONG!)

    YaReally, great posts. Informative and spot-on. Men have to adapt their game to what the current group (read: 18-24 year old females) is into. But do NOT feel bad for us younger guys. Getting laid is actually easier due to social media, not harder. You just have to know how to use it.

    If communicating in a harmless childlike way or keeping up with the latest entertainment news or social media sites is what we have to do to have access to the hottest chicks, so be it. Unless your whole game is based on being overly manly man who doesn’t use “gay shit like facebook”, I think you’ll be ok.

    Like


    • If communicating in a harmless childlike way or keeping up with the latest entertainment news or social media sites is what we have to do to have access to the hottest chicks, so be it.

      Meh… there are too many women out there who are good-looking AND actually interesting enough to not have to bother with the hip-deep social media puerile nonsense of any allegedly “hotter” babe.

      It’s always been that way, and the age of social media only acts as an amplifier.

      From the get-go, you’re resigning yourself to playing constant away games… and by their rules, with their equipment.

      For what, a couple of bangs which may or may not be as hot as you had hoped, because the girl’s outward appearance has solidified a sense of entitlement the size of Oprah’s girdle?

      Hell, that’s even gayer than facebook. 😀

      Of course, if merely lolling about “poolside” and adding a few notches to your bedroom post is all you really want to do, then the point is moot.

      But for those looking for possible LTRs or… dare I say it, a mother for their future children… believe me, life can be pretty damn good with women that others might think are “only” 7s/8s by Hollywood standards… often better than attempting to swim with the 9s/10s… as evinced by the stars of sports and media, who can’t seem to hang onto them except in the rarest of instances… said 9s/10s often proving the old adage: “No matter how beautiful a woman might be, somebody, somewhere has had enough of her bullshit.”

      Like


      • The only women I find interesting are the best looking ones. 😉

        If I wanted interesting conversation I would just talk to my friends.

        I’m not playing with their equipment or their rules, you have the wrong impression. I am simply going where the hot women are (online), similar to the argument for why men go to nightclubs, even when they hate nightclubs. But my frame in dealing with them online or texting is the same as if the interaction were face to face. First sign of non-compliance and I go away. No sense of urgency or loss because online social networks are as target-rich as it gets. The equivalent of a bar with a 4;1 ratio of women to men.

        Regarding your “lolling about” comment: Work smarter, not harder. If I thought my numbers, quality, and/or closing rate would be improved by avoiding it, I would. It’s simply a matter of what’s most effective to me.

        Not looking for LTR so I can’t really relate to the rest of the post.

        Like


      • Who said anything about conversation?

        And, as I (ahem) already mentioned, if such things as “numbers, quality, closing rate” (HA! Let’s play “Which One Does Not Belong?”) are your sole interest, well… the point remains moot… it was said for the benefit of those with other things in mind.

        Like


      • lol don’t worry about Greg. In his head he’s still a 1950s movie star hitting on 1950s actresses. I’d be amazed if the guy even had a smart-phone let alone a Twitter account.

        To the guys who are like “whatever this txting thing is gay, you can’t fuck a txt message, just get her face to face and it’s done DUHHHHHHHH”

        Ya, no shit sherlock, we fucking know. But you go out this weekend and get a number from an 8+ chick in the 18-23 age range and see if you can get her “face to face” without txting or calling (since a lot of girls these days don’t answer their phones unless it’s a close friend calling, because it’s WEIRD behavior to phone strangers now, everyone txts).

        Txt-game is necessary these days. You can get away without using Facebook (tho it can be an asset if used right) but you’re not going to consistently get away without knowing how to play the txt game…playing it is how you GET them to meet up again, face to face, where you can fuck her.

        Go out more.

        Like


  45. HB9? Really? 10s are just 9s who have charisma and personality. HB9s can be models. Most actresses aren’t HB9s. A lot of HB10s are household names. They’re usually followed around by paparazzi. They fuck billionaires. They don’t text guys “from work” because they don’t work in offices.

    My guess Ace is talking about an HB 6 and a 7, maybe.

    Part of his problem (losing frame) is that he’s over-valuing women.

    Like


    • An excellent observation on both accounts.

      Like


    • “charisma and personality”

      You mean femininity and submissiveness.
      I smell mommy issues, bluepill brainwashing and cuckold fetish.

      [heartiste: woman with “personality” = drama queen. woman with “charisma” = whore. be careful what you wish for.]

      Like


    • 10s are just 9s with money/fashion/make-up obsession.

      10s are just 9s, but more hypergamous and status obsessed. You’ll see them walking some under-sized dog in the latest most expensive boots. But i don’t fuck boots, or shrunken dog breeds….

      That 10 you saw yesterday was actually an EXTREMELY hypergamous 7.

      Like


  46. “You mean femininity and submissiveness.
    I smell mommy issues, bluepill brainwashing and cuckold fetish.”

    Thanks for the observations, Dr. Freud, but you must be smelling someone else.

    I was thinking of the lost art of femininity, which once taught women how to be pleasing to men, in their physical appearance as well as in their mannerisms.

    Like


    • You’ll find there’s a sigh-worthy amount of both outhouse psychology and binary-dimensional thinking here at the chateau… but that’s the internet in general.

      Like


  47. Best game post ever. Seriously.
    This is a core principle in politics (which has a lot in common with game) : if you have to tell something, it’s that it isn’t obvious.

    Like


  48. Agree with the original analysis. Although the basics are there, it’s wildly incongruent and try-hard. He’s on the right track but it’ll take time to bed down.

    also, never EVER use “lol” in texts. It’s effeminate.

    Note to your addendum. Another pattern-interrupt I use alot is “what you wearing?”

    Like