Inception

It is explained that subjects under sedation have to be “kicked” into a falling motion in order to wake up, and that this is accomplished by falling in the dream state, such as driving a van over a guardrail into a river. Why couldn’t Fischer alone have been dropped instead of everyone being dropped? Since he is the primary dream vehicle the others enter to plant the idea, wouldn’t his waking have a cascading effect that would wake all the others? This would free the group to deal with the projections instead of sitting comatose in the three levels of Fischer’s subconscious.

I read Nolan spent ten years crafting this Möbiusian script. Perhaps the length of time devoted to a metaphysical quandary is inversely proportional to the quickness which millions of movie viewers with uncover logical inconsistencies.

I give this move two inverted thumbs up. Marion still looking good.





Comments


  1. To be a complete wanker;

    First

    Like


  2. Odd, the only review of Inception that I’ve read and happen to agree with is on this blog.

    Like


  3. on July 25, 2010 at 6:39 pm Chris from Dublin

    WTF?

    Share the joke, please.

    Like


  4. This is not much of a thread but I really appreciate the previous one being bumped down by it, it had deteriorated very badly.

    I enjoyed the movie but the logical inconsistencies were too glaring to allow proper suspension of disbelief. Nice to see Ellen Page again.

    Like


  5. on July 25, 2010 at 6:47 pm greatbooksformen

    lzozlzozlzlzo

    the movie sucked ass lzozlzlzlzlzozl

    you know how the sense of movement awakes them? well the explosion to start the leveators would have aweakened them more than when it stops but th eidiots didn;t relalzie that zlozlzozlzl

    basically he movie just serves to define intelligence as being an idiot who never notices anything about the world like roissy does every day which is why roissy is a greter arist than nolan lzolzlzlz

    Like


  6. I really enjoyed this film but found it a bit confusing. I think they overcomplicated it. I’d have preferred more action.

    I saw the film literally just before you posted the other thread and I nearly mentioned it. That scene where the younger girl (Ellen Page) walks into the hotel room where di Caprio is with his wife (Marion Cotillard), it reminded me about being young say 21 and feeling so girlish compared to women 10 years older who seemed much more beautiful and sophisticated, it was almost painful to watch.

    Like


  7. Fischer was the host dreamer on the plane. However, once in the dream, on the van, the second level host dreamer was not Fischer, it was Arthur. Being “Kicked” must occur one level above the dream, not within it. The only escape from the dream, within the dream is death (with would have resulted in Limbo (and DID for Saito), due to the sedatives.)) The only way they could have done what u are suggesting is if the stewardess woke up Fischer on the plane, but then the job would have been incomplete, (and Saito and Cobb probably would have either not woken up, or been insane).

    However, there do exist inconsistencies within the film- my major problem being: why were Cobb and Mal in, “Limbo” if they were merely sleeping on the floor when they woke up? I’m pretty sure they weren’t even hooked up to the machine (think back to when they, “suicided” on the train tracks in Limbo. THEY WOKE UP ON THE FLOOR- WTF….)

    ALSO- If Arthur was freefalling on the van, thus experiencing zero G’s within dream 3, WHY DIDN’T EVERYONE WITHIN DREAM FOUR EXPERIENCE ZERO G’s, SINCE THEIR BODIES WERE FLOATING IN DREAM 3????

    Like


  8. Wait I meant to say Zero G’s in dream TWO would lead to zero g’s in dream THREE

    Like


  9. Dammit, I want to see this movie. Stop talking about it.

    Like


  10. You are a meme generator.

    Like


  11. It was necessary that they all be asleep in the van so that they could go down into the deeper dream levels to accomplish the mission.

    [editor: btw, i was being cute with the inverted thumbs up. i did like the movie, if for no other reason than that it wasn’t the usual craptastic hollywood garbage. the consuming public’s aesthetic standards have fallen so low that if a movie isn’t a sequel and has some novel ideas to explore, it’s automatically better than 90% of its competition.]

    Like


  12. Award for most elaborate way of saying ‘Drool, Cotillard was hot in this movie!!!’ goes to…

    [editor: it’s the tribute i pay to romanticism.]

    Like


  13. Gorbachev
    Dammit, I want to see this movie. Stop talking about it.

    hehehe 🙂

    Like


  14. on July 25, 2010 at 7:50 pm greatbooksformen

    lozlzozzlzlzl

    if someone was butthexing you in a dream within a dream and in that dream you dreampt it wasbeing secretly taped, would the national debt still be there when you awoke? lzozlzlozllz

    Like


  15. This is an amazing film!! It’s psychotherapy displayed visually. It’s the therapeutic relationship demonstrated through visual means, symbolism and metaphors. Only a psychotherapist or someone who understands the process of analysis will understand the true meaning of this film!

    AMAZING!!!

    Can anyone pick out when the countertransference was happening?

    Yes Marion is beautiful!

    Like


  16. thats the biggest inconsistency you found in a fantasy movie? Suspend your disbelief.

    Like


  17. A play about Game in a Glengarry Glen Ross/Sexual Perversity in Chicago/In the Company of Men vein would be cool. This sphere provides great material.

    Sinister PUA runs Game workshop ….

    Of course there would have to to an exoteric and hidden esoteric message.
    Exoteric – women are vindicated – wicked gamesters defeated.
    Esoteric – novel, compelling ideas take root in the minds of men in the audience. “Yes dear – those ideas were hateful … you would never fall that …”

    Also, like the play Art – dramatize ideas.

    Like


  18. on July 25, 2010 at 8:04 pm RelationshipGamer

    Inception was better than decent, but not as good as The Matrix.

    Like


  19. Someone needs to monitor suicide rates heightened by idiot moviegoers shooting themselves thinking they are in a dream after seeing this movie.

    Like


  20. The one thing about a fantasy film is that it should be, at least, internally consistent – plot holes are plot holes. This is regardless of how unlikely the initial concept was.

    The film was (I think) reasonably consistent – not too many plot holes.

    The one thing that struck me though, was that the dream worlds were not very dreamlike: No mist on the ground; people acted in a reasonable manner; no visual distortion. The film could and should have been a little more trippy.

    Like


  21. Cillian was looking very soulful too, and young for his age as well. Quite amazing, since that kind of girlish beauty in men normally wears off at 17 or so, once a full growth of leg hair sets in.

    Like


  22. on July 25, 2010 at 8:30 pm Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

    If Maggie Gyllenhall was female, she’d be Marion.

    Like


  23. “What is the most resilient parasite? An idea.”

    Simple truth that debunks religion in two sentences. Combined with Nietzsche’s quote on faith.

    “A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything. ”

    Discuss.

    Like


  24. @DrSmooth

    The stupid will be replaced. Why would you prevent natural selection from taking it’s course? Are you against the human race evolving to have a higher average intelligence?

    Like


  25. Cap’n Bob, what, you have a mist in your dreams? Visual distortions? How do you pull that off? There is no mist in mine. Just wacky realities and scenes that are shifting through focus… yea one could call it major plot holes LOL!

    Though, once a while, I’ve dream that is almost internally consistent. Two memorable… In one I was a British spy on a WWI German war ship. My task was preventing the ship docking at Rijeka (Croatia), because of Allies advance. But the route was changed from Berlin, so I did not have to do anything. When the ship docked at Trieste, I bailed out. The thing is, the dream was totally linear, every aspect that I would later check (uniforms and the German Navy culture) matched. I did not remember the name of the ship, so couldn’t check if there was a direct correspondence with a real one.

    Another dream setting was during a Boer war. I was a British soldier and fell in love with a Boer girl in the concentration camp that I were assigned to as a sentry. One night, I helped her escape, but some of Boer snitches (or capos, what have you) saw us and there was a hunting party sent after us. We got about two days together, but at the end of the second day, the hunting party caught with us and shot us on sight–we both died.

    Again, there was nothing dreamy about it, all linear and just like a real thing.

    A funny thing about them is that they happened before I learned English (born and lived first part of my life in Central Europe) and my German was always atrocious. I also had almost no info about Boer wars, the dream actually spiked an interest to research it.

    To this day, I have no explanation.

    Like


  26. A typo, it was WWII, not WWI.

    Like


  27. Haven’t seen the flick, so leaving it at that.

    Like


  28. The_King, what is the intelligence? Do you have a definition? I think that no one really has. If you mean the IQ, that is just a gauge about the learning ability. It does not reflect what may be called an innate intelligence. Another aspect of human consciousness is what is called “wisdom”. It has some common ground with “common sense”, but does not overlap entirely. And, it is not a result of natural selection, but inner development, a personal trajectory, as it were.

    Your notions are a bit reductionist. The verse is more complex than what would fit into your neat boxes.

    Like


  29. Great film.

    The ending reminded me of the most happy dream I had in my life. It was happier than anything I ever experienced in real life, too. That’s sad.

    But, the interesting part of my dream was this: While I was experiencing tremendous joy, I said to myself: “Real life never gets this good. This must be a dream.”

    I immediately woke up and missed likely the best part to come next.

    The movie is a must see.

    Like


  30. @The_King, it was a joke.

    Like


  31. on July 25, 2010 at 9:45 pm Cannon's Canon

    A Woman’s History of Vaginal Orgasm is Discernible from Her Walk

    http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/120776333/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

    Ellen Page definitely does not experience vaginal orgasms.

    Like


  32. on July 25, 2010 at 9:47 pm Black Rebel

    The dreams weren’t all Fischer’s. I believe that the first one was Dileep Rao’s, the second one was JGL’s, the third was Fischer’s and the final was Leo’s. I think that’s how it worked.

    Good movie, though I question if it’s really good on its own or good compared to the rest of the crap that’s been popping out this summer? I wonder, if like his previous movie ‘Memento’, that if it’ll start to unravel after multiple vieweings?

    Seriously, worst summer movie season in as long as I can remember, it comes recommended (thought not a good date movie, too complex and the Leo/JGL/Cillian Murphy trifecta with Tom Hardy being alpha like a boss means you can’t look good in comparison).

    Marion is much, much more attractive than Ellen Page.

    Like


  33. Fischer was never the dreamer in any of the states. The chart here explains it better:

    http://screenrant.com/inception-spoilers-discussion-kofi-68330/2/

    There’s no way to wake Fischer up to make the projections disappear. Normally a kick has to happen on the level above for the person to wake up. That means the flight attendant has to wake Fischer up on the plane before the 10 hour flight is over, and there’s no way she would know everyone in the dream is in trouble.

    Also, the sedative they all took requires a kick above the level and a kick at the current level at the same time. Which doesn’t make a difference in this case, since the kick on the plane will not happen.

    Like


  34. lol @ GBFM

    Like


  35. haven’t been to the theaters for over a year. nothing good comes from them. film noir, hollywood 30-40’s, french new wave, westerns… what the fuck happened? today’s cinema has been truly butthexed.

    Like


  36. The snow fortress part was a disaster. Pointless, and too many guns. The movie would have been just fine without it. Beware when the director is the producer is the writer.

    The whole thing about the company being valueless if split up is dubious too. It may in fact be worth more (see diversification discount). The assets are still worth lots.

    Wasn’t Cobb’s father in Paris? When did he get to LA?

    Like


  37. When the dreamer gets woken up, the dream starts to go to shit, and could kill people. In the very beginning when shit starts falling apart before they “kick” Cobb. They all need to go down deeper levels to help convince Fischer. And Fischer is the dreamer of the very last dream where he visits the vault.

    Like


  38. @Morsellaux

    Intelligence can be interpreted as the level of ability for organisms to survive and replicate.

    Thus it can take various forms such as mental or physical. An athlete can be physically gifted, but lack common sense or have no memorization ability. Most females lack physical intelligence, but have superior social or emotional intelligence.

    Where do you think artificial intelligence came from? The computer being able to survive (compete for resources and make judgments itself) and replicate… well fixing itself.

    Care to enlighten my poor perspective about the quote? Maybe you can clarify which and note that I purposely added “discuss” for a reason.

    Like


  39. ‘When he’s not strangling me,’ she said, ‘he’s very nice.’

    ‘How did you meet him?’ I asked.

    ‘In a pub.’

    ‘And how long had you known him before he moved in with you?’

    ‘A few hours.’

    ‘Has he a criminal record?’

    ‘Yes.’

    ‘Has he been to prison?’

    ‘Yes.’

    ‘What for?’

    ‘He was in eight years for murder. He ran over someone with his lorry.’

    ‘If I’ve understood you correctly, you met a murderer in a pub, you started to live with him a few hours later, and he has repeatedly half-strangled you.’

    ‘Yes, doctor.’

    ‘I hope you don’t mind me asking, but why do you stay with him?’

    ‘I love him to bits, doctor.’

    I howled. I laughed. I wanted to bang my head on the wall and climb straight to the hospital roof and throw myself off. In the event, I merely clutched my head. She started to laugh.

    ‘Silly, isn’t it?’ she said.

    ‘Silly?’ I replied. ‘It’s positively insane. It’s so stupid that it’s wicked.’

    ‘I know, doctor. My kids don’t like him either.’

    http://theodoredalrymplesecondopinion.wordpress.com/2010/07/19/raoul-moat/

    Like


  40. God, why can’t this asshole helm 5 Batman movies instead of 3? When was it decided that the “trilogy” was the limit for directors kicking ass and taking names? Apparently, Favereau will only do 1 more Iron man, and, though he only did a middling job, Raimi got sacked after 3 Spidermans.

    Seriously, so many villains to explore with Batman: Riddler, Penguin, Killer Croc, Bane, Catwoman, Poison Ivy, Tzkrit, etc. 5 moves would kick serious ass. Anyone with me?

    Like


  41. Agreed. The big thing that got me about the movie was the ending. It is not possible with either way the plot goes. He can’t be awake in reality and the ending also cannot be a dream. @whorefinder 5 movies would get so stale. Why do you think Saw is dropping in revenue.

    http://escarondito.blogspot.com/2010/07/inception-i-loved-movie-but.html

    Like


  42. None of the dreams are Fischer’s – the first is the chemist’s, the second is Arthur’s, and the third is Eames’.

    Yusuf the chemist is the first dreamer. Because they are sedated, they can only be kicked up to the first dream, and not woken up completely. On the airplane, while everybody else wakes up from the first-level dream, however, Saito and Cobb wake up from limbo.

    Technically, they are all in the dream for the same amount of time (until the sedation wears off), but it’s possible for people to be left behind in deeper levels of the dream because of the chemicals. The chemist explains that the chemicals make the dreams incredibly stable, which allows them to travel so far into the subconscious, and, one would presume, be stuck in a different level of a dream than the others sharing it.

    So Fischer’s not ever one of the three primary dreamers.
    Kicking him will not wake him up completely.
    If the primary dreamer leaves, the dream will most likely become unstable (this happened at the beginning of the movie), but in this case the sedative and chemicals lend a greater stability to the dreams.

    I’m sure inconsistencies exist, but the narrative offers simple enough answers to those questions, Roissy.

    Like


  43. Attempted thread hijacking

    I’ve facebook closed two 21 year old 8’s within two days, so I’m hitting another hot streak in approaching and closing.

    But where I am really getting caught up is after they’ve added me I’ll send them this message “‘Im free tues. Let’s feed the seals some cheeto’s. shoot me a text today xxx-xxx-xxxx. Then it’s nothing but crickets after that…

    The cheeto’s line is from a thread I use about my many adventures kayaking and feeding wildlife junk food… which always garners howls of laughter and lustful finger wagging.

    I’m trying to incorporate more comfort in my pick up but I am not really sure how to do that without looking like a douche. Also, I do have the ability to see these chicks again, but I don’t want to come off like a creeper and spook them with my oily beta musk.

    Should I see them again? and just go direct? What’s the truth to Mystery’s 6 hours until comfort is cemented? Any ideas gina tingles and alphas?

    p.s. COCKAS!

    Like


  44. The_King

    Intelligence can be interpreted as the level of ability for organisms to survive and replicate.

    According to that definition, a single yeast cell is purdy intelligent. In fact, one may argue that perhaps more so than an average feminist carrier woman that pauses at age 40 and ask herself: “What did I forget?”

    Thus it can take various forms such as mental or physical.

    The definition does not imply that, but I see you are trying to introduce modalities.

    An athlete can be physically gifted, but lack common sense or have no memorization ability. Most females lack physical intelligence, but have superior social or emotional intelligence.

    Again, the tendency to reductions and generalizations seems to creep in suddenly.

    That the present concept of an athlete is not insisting on other facets of human development is a bit of an aberration. If you tried that approach in Olympia, Greece at the original games, you would disqualify yourself. It was about body AND mind. A full human potential.

    As for the femalians, you know it may be a good descriptive for some, but not for all. Reread the snippet above and google “blonde jokes”. 🙂

    Of course, that is related to fake blondes. Most natural blondes were above average intelligence in general.

    Another modality that seem to be conspicuously absent in modern society is spiritual. The current reductionist paradigm resolves the issue by absence of evidence. But absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

    What if we are multi-dimensional entities? The dimension used here in the sense of realm, rather than a physical dimension–of which only one is certifiably real, the 1st and 2nd are just abstractions. You can prove a singularity mathematically, but show me one.

    What if we are just projections onto a screen of a 3-dimensional spacetime? If that is the case, then our concept of physical is limited and there is really no difference between spiritual and physical. We can’t even properly define our 3-d spacetime. It is barely accessible to our perception and all we can really do is create models, that are tentative at most.

    If you get to reductionist nitty gritty of it, you are nothing but a collection of frequencies. It is truly amazing whan you realize that. We wonder about the ghost in the machine, but the correct question may be not what if there is no ghost, but what if there is no machine?

    Where do you think artificial intelligence came from?

    I don’t think we are there yet. So far, we can mimic quite well some processes that correspond to human behavioral patterns, but no one was successful in creating an autonomous system.

    The computer being able to survive (compete for resources and make judgments itself) and replicate… well fixing itself.

    Seen one of these? Let me know where I can get one! Thx!

    If it would be possible, my hunch is that it would be an accident. A variable that would induce the autonomous pattern, popping up out of nowhere. No one would really know where i came from, if there would be some degree of recognition what it actually is.

    Care to enlighten my poor perspective about the quote? Maybe you can clarify which and note that I purposely added “discuss” for a reason.

    My response was more general, my impression was that you tend to define things in rather mechanistical scope. That usually leads to conclusion that contain a large margin of error.

    I admit, I am a bit biased. I had 3 NDEs (near death experiences) through out my life, and I can tell you that I got a glimpse what intelligence in all possible modalities is. I can honestly tell you that it is not what we are having here. Though, more precisely, what we are not having here.

    The flicks like Inception are often trying to capture this intuition that our perceptional model of reality is deficient. It is a crude attempt. But given our condition and our reliance on language to express concepts, it is as far as we can go. If we don’t have a verbal conceptual framework for modalities outside of our existential constraints, we are unable to “translate”.

    I am convinced that we do have rudiments of other type of communication or a way to access reality. That may be a reason newborn are learning so fast, as if soaking things by osmosis. But by accepting the verbal communication as the main mode of organizing the world around us, it is as if we flip a switch, because in our society the non-verbal mode is not considered useful. Or harmful.

    Like


  45. on July 26, 2010 at 3:47 am College Grad

    Roissy and others,

    I think most people have missed the point of the movie. Nolan is a brilliant director that I believe purposefully put inconsistencies and ambiguities to make us think (did we have this problem with The Dark Knight?). To me it makes sense to the think of the movie as one big inception on the audience. The idea: You decide what constitutes your reality. Or in other words, reality is simply relative.

    Take the very argument about whether Cobb was awake or still dreaming at the end of the movie…at the heart of the argument is a bunch of people debating about what is “real” throughout the whole movie. The fact that Cobb refuses to see what happens to the spinning top signifies that he has found the reality that works for him. Similarly, we the audience are challenged to think about what is “real” to us. This does not just apply to tangible things but more importantly the very belief systems and motivations that direct us to find happiness and contentment. I think Nolan is also suggesting that emotions, not logic, drive what we believe to be real (the scene where the group is trying to decide how to plant the idea in Fischer supports this).

    Interestingly enough, this very notion parallels the very nature of this blog, that people (e.g. feminists, a la CR) may construct delusional realities that serve to protect them from evil truths in the face of evidence to the contrary.

    Like


  46. Roissy , you are reasoning like a woman of whom you make fun of. Don’t argue with movies. Just enjoy it, if it feels good. I found that it was an enjoyable movie. I didn’t understand all of it but certainly enough to enjoy it.

    Like


  47. on July 26, 2010 at 4:17 am The Specimen

    *Spoiler Alert*

    If the others were still under when Fisher woke up, I suspect they might have ended up in uncstructed dream space. Another thing nobody seemed to notice: If Arthur was only 1 level down from the van, then why didn’t he wake up on the first kick when they went into freefall?

    Was it perfect? No, but I’m not one to nitpick. Between the originality of the idea, Christopher Nolan’s ability to always stay one step ahead, the car chases and gunfights, I rate it as the best movie of the year by far.

    I think the enitre thing was his dream, and all the people in it were projections of his subcoscious. Either that or he just never woke up @ the end.

    Like


  48. Just read one of your comments that you liked the movie afterall. I take my previous comment back.

    Like


  49. on July 26, 2010 at 5:21 am Gunslingergregi

    Whats up with the mispelling and wrong words lol

    was this a test/

    Like


  50. on July 26, 2010 at 5:21 am Gunslingergregi

    “goes to buy movie”

    Like


  51. What is an alpha-appropriate response to a female co-worker who comes to work dressed in revealing clothing?

    The same question for a girl in a social setting like a party or a date.

    Like


  52. on July 26, 2010 at 6:27 am Down Under Bloke

    Roissy, no idea about this movie but why don’t you look into Metabolic Syndrome? It is probably caused by stress and makes women’s boobs bigger but puts fat on around their trunk in general. It’s a sign, I think, of the increased stress that is in our lives. Article in the British Medical Journal on this a few years ago with the link to work stress.

    Like


  53. you can still be asleep without dreaming.

    Like


  54. The last couple minutes of the film I spent swirling my fingers in the air, whispering “Twist, twist, twist!” to myself.

    Did Ridley Scott laughed like I did at the last shot?

    Like


  55. on July 26, 2010 at 10:40 am 9, The Editor

    Great topic. I covered this on my page over the weekend. I tried to have some intelligent conversation about it and was told, “well, the movie is really over my head”. I offered my usual esoteric take on it and was called “crazy” or a “dreamer”.

    Some alternative radio shows featured guests to discuss dream theories. Anyone wonder how Ellen Page got in that movie w/ Leo?

    Moving on, so maybe inception is just 10 years away from reality. Anyone see the film “Push”? Same idea, trainwreck of a film. But that is the point. To make these “fantasy” type topics too off limits or unreal to regular people. Discussing “astro projection” is too “out there” for the average intel crowd…

    I will agree with others here that hollywooding is a abomination. The films of the last 30 years have sucked. it is nice to see films like inception attempt to wake up a bunch of idiots.

    Anyways, the general ideas are there: in our sleep or sleep states we team up with everyone else in their sleep and maybe live another life. Perhaps, we can alter the future or the present via these dreams, perhaps dreams assist us in our thinking…It dovetails with my enjoyment of M. Kaku’s work in level 1, 2, and beyond universes. (there is more you gotta read for yourself).

    this is for the average intel crowd: http://blog.beliefnet.com/dreamgates/2010/07/shared-dreaming-before-and-after-inception.html

    this is for the science types: http://mkaku.org/

    a page I like to check: dreammoods.com

    (disclosure: I am a total coast to coast radio girl, so its cool to call me crazy)

    thelp999

    Like


  56. More to the point of this blog, JGL’s character is the one 90% of the female fans are obsessed with. My theory: JGL’s emo good looks + badass zero-gravity thing (major DHV) + awesome suits + suaveness with Ellen Page = gina tingles.

    Yet more proof that alpha doesn’t necessarily mean asshole…

    Like


  57. @sarah,

    You are so right!!! “alpha doesn’t necessarily mean asshole…”

    Like


  58. on July 26, 2010 at 11:23 am Smashing_Retards

    Roissy, no idea about this movie but why don’t you look into Metabolic Syndrome? It is probably caused by stress and makes women’s boobs bigger but puts fat on around their trunk in general. It’s a sign, I think, of the increased stress that is in our lives. Article in the British Medical Journal on this a few years ago with the link to work stress.

    The magic search word is:

    cortisol

    Like


  59. on July 26, 2010 at 11:40 am greatbooksformen

    lozlzozolzozlzozlzl

    like lololzozllzlzozozzlzlzl

    like if i am in a dream
    and in that dream i am dreaming
    and in that dream i am dreaming
    and someoby who rhymes iwth goldman sax is butthexing me in the first dream
    and in the second tehy are taping it without my conthent
    and in the third priscillia painton and charlotte allen are finacing publishing pormotoing repeating the lies of butthexers
    when i wake up will the taxpayer tarp bailout money sent to goldman sax be in foreign banks?

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/banking/2010-07-24-goldman-bailout-cash_N.htm

    lozlzlz

    Like


  60. as someone else mentioned , all levels of the dream were not Fischer’s

    for example , level three (snow level) was the dream of the guy who was impersonating Fischer senior’s right hand man

    Like


  61. on July 26, 2010 at 12:34 pm gunslingergregi

    ”””””’The computer being able to survive (compete for resources and make judgments itself) and replicate… well fixing itself.

    Seen one of these? Let me know where I can get one! Thx!

    If it would be possible, my hunch is that it would be an accident. A variable that would induce the autonomous pattern, popping up out of nowhere. No one would really know where i came from, if there would be some degree of recognition what it actually is.
    ””””’

    We kind of have that now with the ability to have computerized cutting of steel and one area can do an almost unlimited amount of cutting functions. Also capability of making like any type of platic mold from again the same machine. So even in a complex project you could just have orginally spare parts lieing around in modules and have the machine create spare modules to replace modules as they go down. Then you just need something to move the shit around and change out modules. So you are creating the machine who runs around in modules and then the machine is creating the modules to repair itself when it goes down. What it is creating is a platform that seeks out with infared live objects to shoot with compressed air shooting soil it dredges and compacts down to a bullet like shape at 1700 feet per second this is solar powered let go out the gate forgive and forget it only has one mission. The minerals are coming in from dredgers with sheets of plastic that is porous to the metal or whatever else you need out of the ocean water again just injection molded like all the other plastic items. So it comes back and drops off the minerals that the machine needs to make the modules. So basically yea creating babies in the form of the infared vehicles and at the same time replicating itself in modules as well. Where you keep it from breaking down is yea starting with like 10 of each module in stock so if a critical location breaks down then you just need to replace from stock. And still the machine is not on a time crunch to make the next part. Engineer original items to last a 100 years.
    I mean talking a pretty big group of machines but if you have a little redundancy and raw materials why not.
    Sure it could “die” but so can a human. Or I suppose video game style it could just keep making replicas of itself and then yea prob not gonna “die”

    I mean we can make an arm with hand capable of grasping so yea.

    Like


  62. on July 26, 2010 at 12:35 pm greatbooksformen

    f you have ever wondered whythe weekly standard replaced tucker max with edmiund burke just check this out:

    “Immorality and Instability

    His real concern was with morality and with semi feudal concepts like honor and loyalty. These concepts were being undermined in France by revolutionary politics and monetary debasement on the part of the French government. Instability — Burke’s greatest fear — was becoming the order of the day in France. Most serious, this instability was undermining the French family, that most fundamental of all institutions in conservative social analysis.”

    –http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/edmund-burke-on-inflation-and-despotism/#

    this is why the neocns mst exalt secrteiev tapers of butthex at every turn lzozlzozlzlzlzlzlzozoz while desecrating debauching forgetting burke lzozlzl

    Like


  63. on July 26, 2010 at 12:37 pm The Specimen

    If you guys must know, Inception is a metaphor for filmmaking. Cobb is the director, Arthur is the producer, Ariadne is the writer, Yusef is the technical guy, Eames is the actor. Onr mistake from anyone putting on the show and the audience, Fischer, realizes it’s fake (cannot suspend disbelief) and the spell is broken. Mal represents the directorls attitudes and hang ups which creep into any film that he makes. Cobb was dreaming the entire time, but the point of the movie is that it doesn’t matter. Emotions experienced during a dream or movie are just as real. Makes sense?

    Like


  64. on July 26, 2010 at 12:39 pm greatbooksformen

    Beauty is the promise of happiness.
    Edmund Burke

    Neocon version: Butthex is the promise of happiness.

    But the age of chivalry is gone. That of sophisters, economists, and calculators has succeeded; and the glory of Europe is extinguished forever.
    Edmund Burke

    Neocon version: But the age of chivalry is gone. That of sophisters, economists, secretive ters of butthex, and calculators has succeeded; and the glory of America is extinguished forever.

    But what is liberty without wisdom, and without virtue? It is the greatest of all possible evils; for it is folly, vice, and madness, without tuition or restraint.
    Edmund Burke

    Neconc version: But what is liberty without butthex, and without secretiev tapings of butthex without the girlths conthent? It is the greatest of all possible goods; for it is folly, vice, and madness, without tuition or restraint.
    –the necoconcjssonso lozlzozlzlzlz

    Like


  65. on July 26, 2010 at 12:40 pm gunslingergregi

    Stopped watching movie well ok never really started but yea when the chicks were in the artic bdu type deals I had to suspend too much belief he he he

    Maybe try again.

    Like


  66. This is unrelated to this post, but to women’s scorn of beta.

    I have a female SWPL coworker, a real entitled type. Guy at the bagel shop charged her only for the coffee, when she ordered both bagel and coffee. Probably did it with a wink too. She complained for 10 minutes about his incompetence for not charging her the full price.

    Go Figure.

    Like


  67. on July 26, 2010 at 12:47 pm The Specimen

    @ slinger

    Not really man. Do you know why machines will never take over the world? Because those shits never work. Ask anyone that has ever had to operate or program a robot or complex automated system. They always break down at the most crucial moments. Ex. 3 mile island, Horizon deep water oil rig, the Challenger, Apollo 13, every gun that’s ever jammed in a firefight, etc. In real life, Skynet would have crashed right at the moment it was about to launch the nukes and start WWIII.

    Like


  68. on July 26, 2010 at 12:58 pm greatbooksformen

    ozlzozlzolzlzl

    this is wy the weekly stadardth exalthe tucker max and repeateth his lies about his height while ignoring edmund burke and russell kirk:

    ” A paper circulation, not founded on any real
    money deposited or engaged for, amounting already to four-and-forty
    millions of English money, and this currency by force substituted in the
    place of the coin of the kingdom, becoming thereby the substance of its
    revenue, as well as the medium of all its commercial and civil
    intercourse, must put the whole of what power, authority, and influence,
    is left, in any form whatsoever it may assume, into the hands of the
    managers and conductors of this circulation.
    ” –http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext02/spweb10.txt

    “In England we feel the influence of the bank; though it is only the
    centre of a voluntary dealing. He knows little indeed of the influence
    of money upon mankind, who does not see the force of the management of a
    monied concern, which is so much more extensive, and in its nature so
    much more depending on the managers than any of ours. But this is not
    merely a money concern. There is another member in the system
    inseparably connected with this money management. It consists in the
    means of drawing out at discretion portions of the confiscated lands for
    sale; and carrying on a process of continual transmutation of paper into
    land, and of land into paper. When we follow this process in its
    effects, we may conceive something of the intensity of the force with
    which this system must operate. By this means the spirit of
    money-jobbing and speculation goes into the mass of land itself, and
    incorporates with it. By this kind of operation, that species of
    property becomes (as it were) volatilized; it assumes an unnatural and
    monstrous activity, and thereby throws into the hands of the several
    managers, principal and subordinate, Parisian and provincial, all the
    representative of money, and perhaps a full tenth part of all the land
    in France, which has now acquired the worst and most pernicious part of
    the evil of a paper circulation,–the greatest possible uncertainty in
    its value. They have reversed the Latonian kindness to the landed
    property of Delos. They have sent theirs to be blown about, like the
    light fragments of a wreck, oras et littora circum.

    –http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext02/spweb10.txt

    Like


  69. on July 26, 2010 at 1:03 pm greatbooksformen

    this is why the neocons hate edmiund burke lzozlozlzlzzolzlz and spend heir tme warmongering and exalting tucker max and debasing and debchng the currency lozlzlzlz :

    The new dealers, being all habitually adventurers, and without any fixed
    habits or local predilections, will purchase to job out again, as the
    market of paper, or of money, or of land, shall present an advantage.
    For though a holy bishop thinks that agriculture will derive great
    advantage from the “ENLIGHTENED” usurers who are to purchase the church
    confiscations, I, who am not a good, but an old farmer, with great
    humility beg leave to tell his late lordship, that usury is not tutor of
    agriculture; and if the word “enlightened” be understood according to
    the new dictionary, as it always is in your new schools, I cannot
    conceive how a man’s not believing in God can teach him to cultivate the
    earth with the least of any additional skill or encouragement. “Diis
    immortalibus sero,” said an old Roman, when he held one handle of the
    plough, whilst Death held the other. –http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext02/spweb10.txt

    Your legislators, in everything new, are the very first who have founded
    a commonwealth upon gaming, and infused this spirit into it, as its
    vital breath. The great object in these politics is to metamorphose
    France from a great kingdom into one great play-table: to turn its
    inhabitants into a nation of gamesters; to make speculation as extensive
    as life; to mix it with all its concerns; and to divert the whole of the
    hopes and fears of the people from their usual channels into the
    impulses, passions, and superstitions of those who live on chances. They
    loudly proclaim their opinion, that this their present system of a
    republic cannot possibly exist without this kind of gaming fund; and
    that the very thread of its life is spun out of the staple of these
    speculations. The old gaming in funds was mischievous enough
    undoubtedly; but it was so only to individuals. Even when it had its
    greatest extent in the Mississippi and South Sea, it affected but few,
    comparatively; where it extends further, as in lotteries, the spirit has
    but a single object. But where the law, which in most circumstances
    forbids, and in none countenances, gaming, is itself debauched, so as to
    reverse its nature and policy, and expressly to force the subject to
    this destructive table, by bringing the spirit and symbols of gaming
    into the minutest matters, and engaging everybody in it, and in
    everything, a more dreadful epidemic distemper of that kind is spread
    than yet has appeared in the world. With you a man can neither earn nor
    buy his dinner without a speculation. What he receives in the morning
    will not have the same value at night. What he is compelled to take as
    pay for an old debt will not be received as the same when he comes to
    pay a debt contracted by himself; nor will it be the same when by prompt
    payment he would avoid contracting any debt at all. Industry must wither
    away. Economy must be driven from your country. Careful provision will
    have no existence. Who will labour without knowing the amount of his
    pay? Who will study to increase what none can estimate? Who will
    accumulate, when he does not know the value of what he saves? If you
    abstract it from its uses in gaming, to accumulate your paper wealth,
    would be not the providence of a man, but the distempered instinct of a
    jackdaw.

    “OMNIPOTENCE OF CHURCH PLUNDER.”

    Their fanatical confidence in the omnipotence of church plunder has
    induced these philosophers to overlook all care of the public estate,
    just as the dream of the philosopher’s stone induces dupes, under the
    more plausible delusion of the hermetic art, to neglect all rational
    means of improving their fortunes. With these philosophic financiers,
    this universal medicine made of church mummy is to cure all the evils of
    the state. These gentlemen, perhaps, do not believe a great deal in the
    miracles of piety; but it cannot be questioned, that they have an
    undoubting faith in the prodigies of sacrilege. Is there a debt which
    presses them?–Issue assignats. Are compensations to be made, or a
    maintenance decreed to those whom they have robbed of their freehold in
    their office, or expelled from their profession?–Assignats. Is a fleet
    to be fitted out?–Assignats. If sixteen millions sterling of these
    assignats, forced on the people, leave the wants of the state as urgent
    as ever–issue, says one, thirty millions sterling of assignats–says
    another, issue fourscore millions more of assignats. The only difference
    among their financial factions is on the greater or the lesser quantity
    of assignats to be imposed on the public sufferance. They are all
    professors of assignats. Even those, whose natural good sense and
    knowledge of commerce, not obliterated by philosophy, furnish decisive
    arguments against this delusion conclude their arguments by proposing
    the emission of assignats. I suppose they must talk of assignats, as no
    other language would be understood. All experience of their inefficacy
    does not in the least discourage them. Are the old assignats depreciated
    at market? What is the remedy? Issue new assignats.–Mais si maladia
    opiniatria, non vult se garire, quid illi facere? assignare–postea
    assignare; ensuita assignare. The word is a trifle altered. The Latin of
    your present doctors may be better than that of your old comedy; their
    wisdom and the variety of their resources are the same. They have not
    more notes in their song than the cuckoo; though, far from the softness
    of that harbinger of summer and plenty, their voice is as harsh and as
    ominous as that of the raven.
    –SELECTIONS FROM THE SPEECHES AND WRITINGS OF EDMUND BURKE.

    INTRODUCTORY ESSAY.

    Like


  70. Has anoukange always had a private blog?
    or did she block it after the weekend posting?

    p.s.
    I don’t want to read this entry nor the comments because i have not seen the movie yet.
    trying to remain spoiler free.

    Like


  71. on July 26, 2010 at 1:24 pm gunslingergregi

    ””””The Specimen
    @ slinger

    Not really man. Do you know why machines will never take over the world? Because those shits never work. Ask anyone that has ever had to operate or program a robot or complex automated system. They always break down at the most crucial moments. Ex. 3 mile island, Horizon deep water oil rig, the Challenger, Apollo 13, every gun that’s ever jammed in a firefight, etc. In real life, Skynet would have crashed right at the moment it was about to launch the nukes and start WWIII.
    ””””’

    lol fuck taking over world I just want excuse not to have to do shit he he he

    Horizon was kind of hyped up though because we have pumps capable of handling 150,000 barrels a day plus the psi it had. Bunch of scare tactics. omg omg we can’t handle no way in the world no way omg he he he
    I think they actually just discovered a new way of drilling and ending the oil “crisis”. like oh shit there is just too much oil coming out we can’t stop it because there is too much we can’t stop it because there is

    too much oil
    too much gas
    Kuwait handling 3.5 million barrels in a small ass area of the country. There oil field processing area is tiny.

    Like


  72. on July 26, 2010 at 1:33 pm greatbooksformen

    lozlzozlzozozlzlzlz

    this is why sodom and schuster likes publishing profiting off of secrteive tapers of butthex without the girlsth conthent as opposed to promoting aristotle lzozlzlozlz
    “The trade of the petty usurer is hated with most reason:
    it makes a profit from currency itself, instead of making it
    from the process which currency was meant to serve.
    Their common characteristic is obviously their sordid avarice.” –aritsotle lzozlzlzllzlzlz

    ever wonder why they deocnstructed the greta books and classics? lzozlzozlzllz

    Like


  73. on July 26, 2010 at 1:37 pm gunslingergregi

    Yea that is my next mission in life area. I was seeing dudes on news all scared and shit and talking about how everything went to hell. Well I know I would be remaining calm. So I should be out there to say.
    Slap sit down and shut up
    Slap get back in the boat.
    Slap quit acting like a pussy.
    Seemed like they thought a few oil rig workers were worth a hell of a lot. I guess armageddon didn’t get enough people to want to sign up for the grueling hours and being away from home which of course is my forte.

    Like


  74. Anoukange,

    Since you appear to have taken your blog private for a time, can you please include me as one of the people permitted to view it? My wordpress name is “polymathblogger”.

    Like


  75. on July 26, 2010 at 4:03 pm Pteradactyl Guano

    Marion Cotillard.

    This photo of her is itself a “tribute to romanticism.” She is beautiful in this photo like the movie stars of the 1930s and 1940s, a phantasm of female perfection. Very rare to see anything like it these days.

    Like


  76. gunslingergregi, what you describe is sci-fi. We are nowhere near that capability. The robots that do the cutting/manipulation have to be precisely programmed for a function they are supposed to execute. You can store x number of functions, but make a mistake calling the wrong one and you get yourself a pink slip.

    The molecular molding (atomic molding is still in the realm of the bright future) is now at a decent stage, but it requires an external prop–the printer that assembles the matrix. It is not by any means a small device and you need fairly specific physical conditions, else you end up with a part that is ripe for a trashcan.

    As for locating elements for use in a printer (let’s suppose that they can be miniaturized eventually), that is another hurdle to overcome. Let alone having an ample supply of catalysts that would be needed for assembly. Inorganic catalytic processes are rather limited, often finicky as the precise physical environment is concerned and also energy intensive.

    However, self-replicating machines already exist all around us, though not of our manufacture. They are called biological organisms. Absolutely ingenious. Maybe you should check it out! 🙂

    Like


  77. on July 26, 2010 at 5:28 pm gunslingergregi

    ”””””Morsellaux
    gunslingergregi, what you describe is sci-fi. We are nowhere near that capability. The robots that do the cutting/manipulation have to be precisely programmed for a function they are supposed to execute. You can store x number of functions, but make a mistake calling the wrong one and you get yourself a pink slip.
    ””””

    Well I am gonna take a guess and say that it is to keep jobs because we are not ready yet to have people not be needed.
    Kind of like computers got faster but yet they are slower.
    windows 98 vs vista slows down trying to do to much instead of keeping it simpler and allowing the power to be used.
    Kind of like excel where you max out its capability with only really a relatively small amount of equations.
    When shouldn’t a computer be able to handle some serious shit.
    I think in same vein. Intentionally dumbed down for your protection.

    Like


  78. on July 26, 2010 at 6:03 pm gunslingergregi

    plus yea engineers probably not in their best interest to engineer themselves out of a job.

    But we may be able to call these guys and have em set it up. If we can get some unlimited loot.

    http://www.assemblyautomation.co.uk/Automated_Prod_Line.htm

    Lyns Recycle – Automatic MSW Waste Recycling Plant
    Lyns Ltd introduces the world’s first automated MSW recycling plant – the … Waste from Kitchen, Landfills, Construction and Paper Mills are very similar …

    ””””However, self-replicating machines already exist all around us, though not of our manufacture. They are called biological organisms. Absolutely ingenious. Maybe you should check it out! :-)”’
    Saw an article on that. I’ll check it out.

    Like


  79. gunslingergregi, well if you would like your robotic arm to cut out a sculpture, by all means, be fuzzy logic. But the purpose of these mechanical helpers is to produce identical parts. So, a very precise instruction set is needed. Not to say that you can’t go about it by objectifying the elements of the process. That is the trend. You still need someone to drill down the objects to their basic structural components (machine code) when some process that has not yet been devised and objectified needs to be implemented.

    Same with an OS. You need kernel programmers to create most efficient architecture, else you end up with a bloat (MS way of doing things–interconnecting a colander full of spaghetti, thought they modularize more nowadays).

    Like


  80. on July 26, 2010 at 6:19 pm gunslingergregi

    http://www.gizmag.com/bacteria-powered-machines/13642/

    Yea ok cool. So a swimming pool full and it is on.

    Like


  81. on July 26, 2010 at 6:24 pm gunslingergregi

    ””on July 26, 2010 at 6:07 pm Morsellaux
    You still need someone to drill down the objects to their basic structural components (machine code) when some process that has not yet been devised and objectified needs to be implemented.
    ””””’
    So you would just need to objectify everything and basically posible then on a more traditional route. I don’t work in the field. It is interesting.

    Kind of like hydroponics where you get 300 tons of tomatoes of an acre. Just funny when ya see people talk about overpopulation and such.
    like the gaia thing.
    The only problem is the ruleset.

    Like


  82. on July 26, 2010 at 6:31 pm Miley_Cyrax

    @ Lily

    “That scene where the younger girl (Ellen Page) walks into the hotel room where di Caprio is with his wife (Marion Cotillard), it reminded me about being young say 21 and feeling so girlish compared to women 10 years older who seemed much more beautiful and sophisticated, it was almost painful to watch.”

    Oh wow, look at this underhanded addendum to the thread about 31 year-old women. Because Ellen Page, who is perhaps the poster-child for late onset of female puberty, is less sexy than Marion Cotillard (who is holding up exceptionally), that means that women only get better-looking with age right!??!?!?!?

    If you were being a ironic and this was a meta-joke, I applaud heartily.

    This scene more reminded me of a late pre-teen girl next to an late-twenties early-thirties woman. Which are what Page and Cotillard would correspond to vis-a-vis the greater populace.

    Like


  83. on July 26, 2010 at 6:44 pm whorefinder

    @escarondito
    Saw got stale because they’re hack horror movies and helmed by different people. It’s a studio franchise.

    I’m talking about great directors carrying the idea through. Map out a 5 movie plot as opposed to 3, and its infinitely better in good hands.

    Like


  84. @Miley_Cyrax

    It was hardly underhanded, as I said in my post I had literally just seen the movie when the Dark Lord posted his other thread.

    I don’t know about late teen or poster childs of such as I knew neither of the actresses beforehand. And Cotillard looks more like mid thirties and past her prime and I imagine looked better at 31, but I did not know who she was previously so have no idea what she looked like beforehand.

    I was just trying to articulate how I felt at 21. Nothing more. I happened to be of girlish build (though luckily filled out in the right places a few years later) but I think a lot of women feel like that.

    And I never said that all women look better older than younger. But I understood the context of the survey if one took into account overall beauty rather than physical looks alone. And it was by women and husbands. But obviously judging from posts on there, men don’t feel like that (that as I think beauty is not just physical looks alone but radiance, sophistication etc).

    “that means that women only get better-looking with age right!??!?!?!?”
    When did I say that? And again, the survey said the peak at 31 not that it kept growing with age.

    I did email around the pictures of Kylie to men I actually know in real life and the rankings were all in favour of her in her late twenties/early thirties rather than 21 or earlier (though as expected certainly not 40+ as she is now). I did not like I did for the benefit of the blog name her ages in each pic, although of course men in England know pictures of her as Charlene in Neighbours would have been the younger ones.

    Like


  85. @Morsellaux

    K1: Intelligence can be interpreted as the level of ability for organisms to survive and replicate.

    M: According to that definition, a single yeast cell is Purdy intelligent. In fact, one may argue that perhaps more so than an average feminist carrier woman that pauses at age 40 and ask herself: “What did I forget?”

    K2: Yes it would compared to a human, who are comprised of billions of cells working together to replicate and survive. A single HIV virus would be more “intelligent” than a single yeast cell, since it has the capability to mutate making it more likely that it will replicate.

    K1: Thus it can take various forms such as mental or physical.

    M: The definition does not imply that, but I see you are trying to introduce modalities.

    K2: You see intelligence is a label and can be attached to many attributes that illustrate the organisms’ fitness level. In most cases fitness and intelligence can be interchangeable.

    K1: An athlete can be physically gifted, but lack common sense or have no memorization ability. Most females lack physical intelligence, but have superior social or emotional intelligence.

    M: Again, the tendency to reductions and generalizations seems to creep in suddenly.

    K2:Isn’t science based on generalizations? We have to accept some reductions and generalizations through common sense. For example gravity has been proved thus far and hence a fact that an object will be pulled back down to Earth due to gravity. One day if gravity stops acting that way, we would change the facts about gravity.

    M: That the present concept of an athlete is not insisting on other facets of human development is a bit of an aberration. If you tried that approach in Olympia, Greece at the original games, you would disqualify yourself. It was about body AND mind. A full human potential.

    K2: They also placed value on soul, but you forget that the games were performed by young males who are at the peak of their physical intelligence. If there wasn’t a difference in physical intelligence then wouldn’t you see older men and even women competing? Clearly many forms of intelligence can be measured and compared.

    M: As for the femalians, you know it may be a good descriptive for some, but not for all. Reread the snippet above and google “blonde jokes”. 🙂

    Of course, that is related to fake blondes. Most natural blondes were above average intelligence in general.

    K2: Fake blondes? You mean blondes who are products of the lower class and are not trace origins to ancestors from Europe? Yes most WASP blondes are on average smarter than other races such as Hispanics and Blacks. Though they still are inferior compared to Jews and Asians who have higher average intelligence, specifically memorization, language and test taking.

    M: Another modality that seem to be conspicuously absent in modern society is spiritual. The current reductionist paradigm resolves the issue by absence of evidence. But absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

    K2: Very clever, but aren’t facts derived from the existence of evidence? If no one wrote the bible for would you still have faith in that specific concept? Also if you truly believed your last sentence you would jump off a 20 story building correct? Since there is no evidence that you could sprout wings and fly. I would bet the scenario that you would hit the pavement and die from the combination of severe trauma to the vital organs.

    M: What if we are multi-dimensional entities? The dimension used here in the sense of realm, rather than a physical dimension–of which only one is certifiably real, the 1st and 2nd are just abstractions. You can prove a singularity mathematically, but show me one.

    K2: We are multi-dimensional entities… we are 3-D you know and built to live in a 4D reality. Try taking salvia or DXM and see when your brain function shuts down and that you experience the mind feels like it is separated from the body, but once the effects of the drugs wear off everything turns back to normal. Hence the mind is regulated and connected to the brain.

    M: What if we are just projections onto a screen of a 3-dimensional spacetime? If that is the case, then our concept of physical is limited and there is really no difference between spiritual and physical. We can’t even properly define our 3-d spacetime. It is barely accessible to our perception and all we can really do is create models, that are tentative at most.

    K2: Yes reality is how your mind interprets signals from your sensory organs. Ever think that my red can be your blue? But there is no way of proving it. Science is the art of making models on repeated observations that can be labeled as facts. Most people don’t realize that facts can be proven wrong and changed anytime.

    M: If you get to reductionist nitty gritty of it, you are nothing but a collection of frequencies. It is truly amazing whan you realize that. We wonder about the ghost in the machine, but the correct question may be not what if there is no ghost, but what if there is no machine?

    K2: I like to think we are a collection of cells that are made of atoms. Driven by a script encrypted in DNA and use elements existing in our reality for sustenance or energy. Who knows where atoms came from? Black matter? Big Bang? These don’t matter to me, my existence will be wiped out in about 70 years. My DNA will likely live on in other vessels.

    K1: Where do you think artificial intelligence came from?

    M: I don’t think we are there yet. So far, we can mimic quite well some processes that correspond to human behavioral patterns, but no one was successful in creating an autonomous system.

    K2: Don’t worry it’ll get there once computers become so powerful that it is able to improve itself, it will figure out a way to replicate and become more fit. Why? Computers are made and based on the human mind.

    K1: The computer being able to survive (compete for resources and make judgments itself) and replicate… well fixing itself.

    M: Seen one of these? Let me know where I can get one! Thx!

    K2: Yes myself. What is the difference between computer and humans? Emotion? Spirit? Conscious? I lack all three.

    M: If it would be possible, my hunch is that it would be an accident. A variable that would induce the autonomous pattern, popping up out of nowhere. No one would really know where i came from, if there would be some degree of recognition what it actually is.

    K2: Yes most scientific breakthroughs were accidents? Or so you think. Depends on the source. Maybe aliens can share it with us.

    K1: Care to enlighten my poor perspective about the quote? Maybe you can clarify which and note that I purposely added “discuss” for a reason.

    M: My response was more general, my impression was that you tend to define things in rather mechanistical scope. That usually leads to conclusion that contain a large margin of error.

    K2: No my perspective is very open and can easily adapt to all external stimuli or information. If gravity stops working tomorrow I can forget every fact about gravity and replace it with a new mode of perspective and thinking pattern. You should note that machines can also adapt if they are rewritten. Nature and reality is chaos, there are infinite possibilities hence the large margin of error. Funny though what would you consider error in nature?

    M: I admit, I am a bit biased. I had 3 NDEs (near death experiences) through out my life, and I can tell you that I got a glimpse what intelligence in all possible modalities is. I can honestly tell you that it is not what we are having here. Though, more precisely, what we are not having here.

    K2: Interesting, but you have to remember that in all of those NDEs situations that your brain is getting flooded by atypical chemicals, so your senses and thinking pattern is highly irregular. Don’t you think it’s weird that most cases of alien abduction or spiritual episodes happen when people are dreaming or in an altered state? Why are you so confident what your mind is projecting? I guess it is different for you, since I never dream or don’t remember any of it.

    Part II

    M: The flicks like Inception are often trying to capture this intuition that our perceptional model of reality is deficient. It is a crude attempt. But given our condition and our reliance on language to express concepts, it is as far as we can go. If we don’t have a verbal conceptual framework for modalities outside of our existential constraints, we are unable to “translate”.

    K2: There are other ways such as visual and audio. That is why our sensory organs adapted in its physical attributes and cells to better perform that basic function. Nature is simple. Language is just complex symbols and sounds. If there was another way to communicate we would adapt to accommodate it. Yes humans are limited to collecting information using sensory organs. Do you know that government is working on chips directly inserted to the brain to rely and collect information? Isn’t that new way of communication?

    M: I am convinced that we do have rudiments of other type of communication or a way to access reality. That may be a reason newborn are learning so fast, as if soaking things by osmosis. But by accepting the verbal communication as the main mode of organizing the world around us, it is as if we flip a switch, because in our society the non-verbal mode is not considered useful. Or harmful.

    K2:Body language is completely non-verbal. The material possessions you surround yourself also communicates purely through visual representation. Non-verbal is used daily, if you attempt to harm someone of value you tend to get shot. Isn’t that physical or visual communication?

    I still don’t understand why you would believe in a spirit. Titus Lucretius in “Sensation and Sex” argues that if a spirit existed that when you die that it would leave the body correct? Thus there should be a slight change in body weight, since nothing is weightless in our reality. I’m intrigued to know your stance that would argue that mind and spirit aren’t creations of the brain just like every emotion, which usually is a reaction to stimuli. Example you are fearful since the mind/brain believes that your life is in danger, thus it leads to psychological and physiological changes.

    Like


  86. @dreamin

    “What is an alpha-appropriate response to a female co-worker who comes to work dressed in revealing clothing?

    The same question for a girl in a social setting like a party or a date.”

    Easy answer: Don’t shit where you eat. Are you that desperate that you need to pick up co-workers? Try dance class, yoga class or college.

    My fav answer: Assuming that you are higher or equal status in firm and that you can get away with it.

    “Don’t wear that outfit again.”

    Typical response: “Why?” or “You don’t like it?”

    “Cmon you’re better than that. Oh and btw. I like high heals.”

    PUA bs answer: “Wow that’s so _______ (cute, cool, “original”) I saw ____ (mom, sister, girl friend, random broad) wearing your same outfit at _____ (mall, club or bar) yesterday.”

    Smart answer (Esp if she is your boss and you want a promotion): “Where did you get that outfit!? I really envy your consummate taste in attire. More people should learn and dress like you.”

    Like


  87. gunslingergregi

    So you would just need to objectify everything and basically posible then on a more traditional route.

    It is not trivial, but way easier. You could probably train a Haaavaaad graduate to pass parameters to objects from one to another. Well, jury is out on that one, you may be better off with Joe Sixpack. 🙂

    I were working some years back as software tester for an online courseware company, and could access the tests done by college students. And the support messages! Oh boy! Everyone talks about evolution, but no one is considering a devolution! “Pathetic” does not do a justice. 🙂

    I don’t work in the field. It is interesting.

    Neither do I. Were a while ago, but decided to bail out as it seemed to induce a professional deformation–dreaming of code is no fun! I am more a creative type, though can do low level coding too. Did not know as an umbilical wee one that one is ‘possed to pickup either left brain or right brain, so ended up with both.

    Like


  88. on July 26, 2010 at 8:56 pm Miley_Cyrax

    @ The_King

    My fav answer: Assuming that you are higher or equal status in firm and that you can get away with it.

    “Don’t wear that outfit again.”

    Typical response: “Why?” or “You don’t like it?”

    “Cmon you’re better than that. Oh and btw. I like high heals.””

    And then when she comes over make sure to refuse sherbet and saying that you’re on a diet. Knowing that you’re already in good shape and on a diet will make her feel inadequate about her own body, and nothing makes chicks moist like inadequacy.

    Like


  89. on July 27, 2010 at 7:57 am Gunslingergregi

    ”””””on July 26, 2010 at 8:31 pm Morsellaux
    I don’t work in the field. It is interesting.

    Neither do I. Were a while ago, but decided to bail out as it seemed to induce a professional deformation–dreaming of code is no fun! I am more a creative type, though can do low level coding too. Did not know as an umbilical wee one that one is ‘possed to pickup either left brain or right brain, so ended up with both.””””’

    lol yea so did I.
    I am right handed and left handed.
    Yea I dreamt in work orders and excel.
    I like the repeditive tasks though to an extent since I enjoy beating people on numbers of output.
    Then when that wears off it becomes a catalyst for creating creative solutions to a lot of the repedative tasks.

    ””Morsellaux
    gunslingergregi

    So you would just need to objectify everything and basically posible then on a more traditional route.

    It is not trivial, but way easier. You could probably train a Haaavaaad graduate to pass parameters to objects from one to another. Well, jury is out on that one, you may be better off with Joe Sixpack. 🙂
    ””””’
    Yea stringing existing technology together to form a useful whole.

    Well I did propose a plan to insure 800 miles of Iraqi highway were kept free from ieds and keep soldiers from getting wounded. Just put some camera gun mounts take existing technology and sting it together. Ran by some gamers in a centralized location. But yea I didn’t personally know how to implement each aspect of it but I believe I could have put team together if I would have gotten the money to do so. Would have saved billions of dollars. Could save us 37000 wounded soldiers in future implementation.

    Or idea for electronic records of work done in Iraq. I could have met all objectives in our statement of work to the letter and we could have gotten rid of a ton of useless jobs.
    Again I wouldn’t have created the technology but I could have put team together. Saving billions of dollars.

    But I did still create more creative spreadsheets by my hand while working my regular job. More than the entire creative group of college educated folk who it was there sole job to do so. Who didn’t have to show up to work on time or keep regular hours. Still couldn’t get into their job though but did get interview. People fear you when they have to work hard to come up with the mundane while you just prattle off useful shit on a whim and as a normal course of a day. This is where game can come in I think. I do not have the game yet to get my ideas to become concrete at a high level even if it would benefit the company. I am going to try working for a civilian company though where maybe my ideas for saving money for them will have value.

    Why I also don’t see elites as wanting to exterminate people I have already figured out how to do it and sent it up he he he
    They don’t want it.
    But yea we are also having people walking around with the mark of the beast right everyone carrying cell phones but me with the gps.

    I think as I age I will get better at putting my large project ideas into a more acceptable proposal format. I just need to have the game to make it go through he he he

    I think pretty much in future will be going straight to ceo with ideas and dialoging.

    Or utopia hydroponic skyscrapers and automated factories in everyones family compound. Piece of area become the production capability not the human capital. People have money and widjets. Love becomes the tradable item he he he

    Or why is it that you can mass produce your own version of dijorno for like 50 to 100k but yet all children are supposed to go to college.

    Me I had high school some college and military training but I seem to like hamstringing myself to prove points or maybe that is how I really learn by actually doing a bunch of things.

    Like


  90. on July 27, 2010 at 8:12 am Gunslingergregi

    ””””’M: I am convinced that we do have rudiments of other type of communication or a way to access reality. That may be a reason newborn are learning so fast, as if soaking things by osmosis. But by accepting the verbal communication as the main mode of organizing the world around us, it is as if we flip a switch, because in our society the non-verbal mode is not considered useful. Or harmful.

    K2:Body language is completely non-verbal. The material possessions you surround yourself also communicates purely through visual representation. Non-verbal is used daily, if you attempt to harm someone of value you tend to get shot. Isn’t that physical or visual communication?

    ””””

    Yea I believe you can learn to harness your subconscious thought to achieve results. I have done it and do it.
    It is probably how to get the most done. Or you can work like 36 hours straight on something and have a breakthrough because at some point you can det rid of the planned conscious reasoning.

    king yea you can project a lot out to society liks don’t fuck with me vibe or I want to just fuck the ladies good by internalizing a concept and it works. Hence some of game about internalizing shit and making it natural.

    Like


  91. on July 27, 2010 at 8:18 am Gunslingergregi

    Why game is an interesting concept it is what I was working on my whole life. Harnessing the subconscious to your conscious to achieve what you want. It works. You take an idea of what you want like being financially independant. You take that and harness your entire being to it and then achieve it. You take the concept of wanting woman and lots of them and harness it to your subconscious and your entire being works towards making it happen.
    The way I see it is lieing breaks the link between the power you get in harnessing your whole being.
    Because inevitably you start to lie to yourself. So not on same wavelength. And incongruent.
    So to keep it flowing smooth and to gain ultimate power over yourself and situations in life. It calls for cold blunt truth or not talking about shit you see as a lie.

    Like


  92. on July 27, 2010 at 8:45 am Gunslingergregi

    ””””’K2: We are multi-dimensional entities… we are 3-D you know and built to live in a 4D reality. Try taking salvia or DXM and see when your brain function shuts down and that you experience the mind feels like it is separated from the body, but once the effects of the drugs wear off everything turns back to normal. Hence the mind is regulated and connected to the brain. ””’

    Interesting king

    ”””””M: I admit, I am a bit biased. I had 3 NDEs (near death experiences) through out my life, and I can tell you that I got a glimpse what intelligence in all possible modalities is. I can honestly tell you that it is not what we are having here. Though, more precisely, what we are not having here.

    K2: Interesting, but you have to remember that in all of those NDEs situations that your brain is getting flooded by atypical chemicals, so your senses and thinking pattern is highly irregular. Don’t you think it’s weird that most cases of alien abduction or spiritual episodes happen when people are dreaming or in an altered state? Why are you so confident what your mind is projecting? I guess it is different for you, since I never dream or don’t remember any of it.
    ”””””””’
    This I find interesting about Morsellaux whenever I walk into the valley of the shadow of death of my own free will I am extremely calm and time slows down. Time does seem to be meaningless. When I actually am in a life or death situation that just happens I wake up and am back in the world. Like high speed going down a hill on tenspeed and hit a wire that was stabilizing a telephone pole I basically hit but had no recolection between when I hit and when I woke up in a rose bush far away from impact. The bike was frame was broke in half and front tire was bent all the way up past the crossbar. But I was unhurt.
    Or in a car wreck. Collision but then remember nothing about what happened other than waking up and inside of car was destroyed by my body whole where my knee went through dash broken windshield no seatbelt but I was unhurt.
    Remember nothing about getting put to sleep for operation but woke up ok.
    Or yea getting knocked out and beat up after punching the first dude in face but waking up and nobody was there and unhurt except for my thumb which always reminds me of it he he he

    Like


  93. on July 27, 2010 at 8:50 am Gunslingergregi

    Or put it this way the times I have been injured where when I was conscious of the action all the way to injury but the times my body should have been really injured my body was untouched because I wasn’t conscious of what was going on.

    Like


  94. Was the kiss that Arthur steals from Ellen Page’s character in the hotel dream an alpha or beta move?

    As well, did Mal setting up Cobb for being charged with her murder act as an example of how laws are skewed against men in marriage?

    Like


  95. liked the film but having read these threads like it even more now!
    however i do need a couple of questions answering please. ok so fisher is tricked to believing he is in a dream and goes into his lawyers dream which is still really his own. So why is it that all the guys are still being attacked at the ski level? would his subconscious not be at ease believing he is in control? if it is still fishers subconscious/training to protect him from this sort of thing then why does he not question why they are all being attacked?

    also who attacked dom (leo) when he was supposedly back in reality and recruiting his forger in the bar before being saved by salto. love the part when he was stuck in the wall then just escapes in time. this is very much like what would happen in a dream making me believe like many it could all be a dream.

    answers very much appreciated!

    Like


  96. @Gunslingergregi

    It has been proven by modern science that when humans enter a stressful or dangerous environment that brain function or “speed of processing” is sped up to increase awareness. It is natural that you would feel time slowing down since the brain is processing more data per second. That is also the reason why after the event or the threat is neutralized that you begin to express fatigue due to the body using extra energy during that heightened function. I am pretty sure you remember vivid details and accounts, since your memory function is also increased.

    Can this be the reason for PTSD? Where soldiers remember and keep seeing the emotionally damaging images, sounds and experiences? It probably is a defense mechanism to remind the individual how to survive in that specific situation.

    @Miley_Cyrax

    I believe we have a lot in common. You have great taste.

    @Morsellaux

    Where art thou?

    Like


  97. pupu saw the movie last night and liked it.

    this whole idea of killing oneself in order to return to reality is very scary but kinda neat. also the idea of time compounding into deeper layers of dream so one may end up living in a dream for a life time is also neat and scary. the ambiance of those dreams was also interesting. having an architect there certainly definitely helped a lot. pupu’s dreams rarely have any scenic quality to them. time for a change, perhaps.

    Like


  98. on August 19, 2010 at 7:19 pm gunslingergregi

    I think it is more like you get pissed when you don’t die lol
    when everyone else seems to get lucky.
    Who wouldn’t want a heros death. In forest gump forest really did rob the dude of his birthright.
    All that other shit he did was just filler compared to going out hard.

    Like