Conversational Momentum

A consequence of being a man is that it’s your burden to energize and direct conversations with girls. A girl who is on the fence about you will offer little in the way of chatty tokens to cash in for new topics of interest. Even a girl who is interested will hardly put in equal effort at sustaining a conversation beyond the meagerest bounds of politesse. It is simply not in the nature of girls to direct and lead conversations along fruitful paths. As with sex, girls prefer to follow a strong conversational leader, and to ricochet joyously off a charismatic man’s titillating badinage.

And this is one of the great blind spots that dog the typical man engaged in flirty talk: he doesn’t know when enough is enough.

To wit: I noticed a lot of commenters to this post, in describing how they would continue gaming bikini-clad girl, felt it necessary to revisit the invisible shark theme which had threatened to be the denouement of the protagonist’s precious few minutes of lust-hued inquisitiveness. Such a course of action would have been a misjudgment, and guaranteed the fizzling of any nascent sexual interest.

Women (normal women, that is; not nerdgirls who make up the majority of their gender who read blogs not having to do with celebrity gossip or food) do not like to revisit conversational topics, to hammer them into submission, to delve into them with an analytical scalpel. Women instead (and particularly in the company of men who aspire to be their lovers) want to careen from one subject to another, getting their emotional fill in superficial bursts of topical teasers. This way, they are entertained without risking social embarrassment from uncouth scrutiny. And they can afford to be thus so entertained and carelessly unenlightened, blessed as they are by providence with the more valuable reproductive cargo.

Men evince, like so many other sex differences seemingly the genesis of some creator prankster, a preference for just the opposite. We prefer to examine a topic until its entrails have been spooled out on the ground before us, poked and prodded with mental instruments of logical brutality, until revelation or argument victory, whichever comes first, descend upon the listening attendees like trumpet blares. Men will, given free rein, exhaust a topic to death, for to leave a theme unresolved is akin to walking off the baseball diamond in the bottom of the ninth with the score tied, happy that no one goes home a loser. A clear WTF moment if you sport a couple of dangling stones.

Unfortunately for the needs of the penis, this manly urge to disembowel a conversational topic is kryptonite to picking up women. To a woman’s mind, it reeks of social clumsiness at best, aspie retardation at worst. And since it is primarily women’s minds, and not their eyes, to which men must appeal, the “beating a topic to death” syndrome is one that must be recognized with haste and banished with malice aforethought.

To put it in algorithmic form easily understood by the core audience:

Bad Flirting

YOU: Topic A

HER: HAHA!, slight twist on Topic A

YOU: Resurgent Topic A

HER: ha…, slipping interest in Topic A

YOU: Topic A again, nervously, this time with feeling

HER: cya

Good Flirting

YOU: Topic A

HER: HAHA!, slight twist on Topic A

YOU: Opportunistic springboarding from twisted Topic A into Topic B

HER: Double HAHA!, pleasant surprise at introduction of Topic B


HER: rosy vulva

I hope you can see what is going on here. If you can’t, may I suggest a blog more suited to your temperament? Perhaps a mommy blog? Or an economist’s blog?

Revisiting topics that initially garnered a positive response from a girl is try-hard approval seeking. It is the clarion call of the beta who can’t believe his luck that he said something interesting to a girl, and now feels the overarching need to suck the life out of it in endless sequels. Don’t be that beta. You lead a woman in talk as you would in dance, your nimble tongue the strong hand that gently but firmly guides her into new adventures.

Maxim #97: Do not tempt a woman’s withdrawal with conversational topic overkill. You made a funny, now surprise her with something new.

Caveat: The running gag is the exception to the above maxim. Properly executed (that is, delivered with long enough time passed between funny exclamations), the running gag can anchor a girl to your terraphallus. Caution: Easily abused by those lacking comedic timing.

The uniting theme here is the universal female desire for unpredictable men. The man who can’t be pigeonholed, who can’t be readily discerned like the mass of mediocrities she encounters every day, is catnip to her pussy. A simple pull of conversation into an unforeseen direction can mean the difference between boyfriend excuses and helpful reminders that she lives right down the street from you.


  1. What if I like both this and economics blogs? First.


    • on August 1, 2011 at 6:50 pm (R)Evoluzione

      *Nerd alert*.


    • on August 1, 2011 at 8:27 pm DumpyGuyWithGlasses

      Talk to men about econ. Talk to women about whatever the fuck it is they want to be talked to about. Just because it is words coming out of your mouth, don’t think the same thing is going on.


      • MHHHMM me big tough man intell-ectual so smart I wear glasses and have the social skills of a kid with down syndromuh. Must com-puh-sate for my own insecuruhities by putting down women.

        I’m getting a Ph.D in economics, but since I know the men who typically (not all) read this blog feel their penises shrinking at the thought of beautiful, highly intelligent (and higher-earning) women, we can have a “conversation” about economics at your level–A, B, C, D, E, F, G, etc.

        Newsflash: If you go after dumb sluts, it says far more about you as a person and as man then it does about women.


      • Oh no, i get a hard-on thinking about agressive superindependent bitches, but they’re just good for pump & dump, falling in the same category as dumb sluts.
        In the matter of meaningful relationships, women need a real man in all his masculine alphaness, men need a real woman in all her shining femininity.
        One last thing: go fuck yourself.


      • I am not sure I buy this. I would wager to say there is a sub group of independent yet mostly good natured girls – most of them are interested in things other than relationships (although we know that our host considers career mindedness in girls to be a form of cheating). Some of them are also rather hot to luck at.


      • Yes, attractive women love analytical conversation with their sex partners. And also, nice guys wiymth a sense of humor, they hook up all of the time.
        All kidding aside, we really could care less how much money you girls make.
        Number 1, with grade inflation, reverse sexism, & corporate america’s asinine policy of promoting less qualified women over men, your “higher earnings” (heavily offset by student & credit card debt) simply aren’t earned, and mean little.
        Furthermore, 40-50 k per year is plenty for a single player to live on in most cities (double that amount fir DC, NYC, CA).


  2. Yawn!


  3. Welcome back, Roissy.


  4. Government forcing insurers to pay for womens’ birth control now:

    No word yet on free birth control for men. Not holding my breath.


    • Forced sperm donation and its cataloging for women seeking child support from “rich” men whether they want kids or not… it helps when you spread that ol’ wealth around, you know.


  5. Great post. Was there ever an official answer to the above referenced “Test of Your Game”?


  6. on August 1, 2011 at 4:44 pm Ari Hinkelberger

    Yeah – no question about it, for a gender that loves to yack yack and yack more on the phone with their fellow twats, women by and large are terrible at holding a decent conversation with the opposite sex. It’s rather ironic.


  7. Speaking of revelations, i just had one: i think i love you Roissy.


  8. Linguistic legerdemain leads to labial lapping. Gotcha!


  9. This is borderline epiphany territory.
    In retrospect I can see more than a few occasions where I unknowingly made this blunder, usually when I was trying to branch out from my normal nerdy-girl fare. I knew I was screwing up somewhere, but I couldn’t put my finger on it .


  10. fantastic post


  11. The tactic of changing topics goes hand-in-hand with teasing. They both stem from the same basic truth about women — they can’t supply their own entertainment. Women need external stimulation the way that reptiles need the sun to supply body heat. They can’t generate it on their own.


    • Excellent metaphor, although sometimes I’m not a fan of the term “reptiles” as it is paraphyletic in the cladistical sense, for the clade should include aves and mamm–oh wait I’m doing it again aren’t I–I meant have you seen the latest episode of Gossip Girl? Can you believe Serena said that?


  12. money.


  13. “Easily abused by those lacking comedic timing.”

    Which describes the vast majority of men.


    • And women too. It’s all about game anyway. Humor can make a difference ceteris paribus, but it is overrated.


      • Humor is not overrated, I really like witty men as do most women. Even so it is hard for even funny people to be funny all the time.


      • It’s also uncomfortable on a date when a man is trying too hard to entertain you the whole time.


      • I was more referring to a stand up comedy kind of humor. Cocky funny lines or witty remarks are an essential part of game, but too much laughter can be counterproductive in a courtship.
        Comedians often complain that businessmen and rockstars have more success with women. That’s what i meant by overrated.
        But you seem to get it in your last sentence.


      • Yes. You don’t want to be a clown. Those guys are funny, but women generally don’t want to sleep with them. The key is to have a good sense of humor and occasionally say something witty, but still be someone she can take seriously.


      • On the other hand…I use humour and teasing to avoid being seen as beta. If I send a photo or video or reply to a girl that I’m gaming’s text….I always flip it to something off-beat or irreverant.

        Even if it’s not laugh out loud funny, it’s sure better than some straight reply.

        It always differentiates. But avoid the tendency to go completely overboard.


      • Agreed with all above, I would syntax this as:

        Too much funny = clown, get blown out of set
        Too much serious = boring, get blown out of set

        An even mixture is best as you multi-thread topics and navigate through conversation.


  14. Like so many things related to picking up women, most men can usually pull this off effortlessly when not interested in the girl he’s talking to. Mild disinterest in a convo with a girl allows your mind to wander and since you don’t care what the outcome is, its pretty easy to throw some random funny bits out of the ether. And the ones that don’t take don’t sink your ship either, because you don’t care, so you reveal no self-consciousness and move on. Genuine disinterest in outcome is the ultimate DHV.


  15. Good game observation Roissy. Question for you. When should the man disengage a convo where the women is flirting back and obviously enjoying the titillating ping pong exchange of wits and imagination. I used a technique I read from David D on leaving the convo at a high point so not to overkill, or for the male to unintentionally, but inevitably say something stupid. What would you suggest as an effective exit time or strategy of convo with a potential lay?


    • If you want to change the mood, simply ask her a more important question; instead of continuing to make jokes, ask her something about herself. Then when being “serious” gets boring, go back to making jokes. Rinse and repeat, mix with subtle escalation throughout the interaction and you should be good.

      And yea, DeAngelo was the first guru I learned from back 3 or so years ago. His advice is good. What I appreciate about him the most is that he sees women as spoiled brats, kind of like an annoying little sister. Most of the blog gurus see women as these evil robots with no soul, who’s only purpose is VAGINA!

      [Heartiste: deangelo’s stuff is good, and the “bratty little sister” theme is a helpful one to get guys in the right frame of mind. But women, like men, are still driven by primitive forces that guide their decisions along paths that would send a preacher’s congregation screeching with their skirts pulled over their heads.]


    • Make me breakfast


  16. wow, so true, I can recall feeling the fun being sucked out of the room as I feebly tried to hone in on and abuse a funny I made. Good advice to pinpoint that that’s what’s happening.


  17. This post is truth. Women couldn’t give a flying rat’s ass about analytic reasoning (except for Sophia). They don’t want to deconstruct an argument. They want want the girls on Sex and the City have: careers, jewelry, shoes and baubles.

    Entertain them. But don’t take them seriously.


    • Exception: Psych or Philosophy majors. But then again, no sane man would want to date those.


      • Well, they’re fine for a fuck or two, as long as you don’t let them engage their psych/philo masturbon.

        What LTR? You deaf? Said one or two fucks. They’re utterly unsuitable for anything remotely resembling LTR.


      • on August 2, 2011 at 1:15 pm The Real Neecy (No, I am, really!)

        Modern psychology and philosophy, as academic disciplines, have almost zero analytical heft to them. Women in those disciplines are emos studying emotive nonsense, not students developing analytical reasoning skills.

        Same for law schools. You want to see analytical chops? Talk to engineering or hard science students. The rest of college majors are now just a bunch of running gags, with high tuition being the killing joke punchline.


  18. *They want what the girls…”


  19. When you jump to another topic and you have the girl trying to get back to an old topic, you know your game is going well. Yet another example of flipping the script.

    Try The Cube or some other kokology test on her. She’ll be for me. After the test, change the subject to something else. She’ll be hooked.


  20. I agree completely with your overall point that a guy shouldn’t hammer a topic to death.

    However, at the same time, you don’t want to jump from topic to topic too quickly, either. You’ll either look like a ditzy scatterbrain, or else you’ll look like you’ve got a large library of well-rehearsed list of conversation tidbits memorized. You don’t want to look like you’ve got this stuff memorized, because (a) it’s creepy, and (b) you’ll look like some PUA wannabe. That ain’t good, because if a woman starts to sense that you’re a PUA disciple, then the curtain is pulled back, and suddenly she’s seeing you as some bozo along with all the other losers at one of Mystery’s seminars.

    Case in point – In Friday’s example, you went from a polished Womens’ Magazines/Skin Tips gag into a shark gag. Whether those are in your rehearsed arsenal of conversation topics or not, they’re certainly going to SOUND like they came from a PUA website to any woman with experience getting hit on. So I’d be really careful about going into anything too cute, too soon from there.


  21. > “We prefer to examine a topic until its entrails have been spooled out on the ground before us, poked and prodded with mental instruments of logical brutality, until revelation or argument victory, whichever comes first, descend upon the listening attendees like trumpet blares. ”

    I fully agree with everything in this post. I would, however, like to add something. A man that is passionate about something (not WoW fellas) and spends his life pursing this passion can be a huge turn on. Especially if he makes it perfectly clear that there is nothing that will stop him from the pursuit of his passion (Career, sailing, hunting, etc.). You can pull a woman in with the topic of your passion and hold her there, at least for a bit. Then I think you follow this advice. You could also neg her along the lines of she could not understand because she is not intelligent enough (obviously, in a subtle manner) or that she could never get how you could love it so much.

    Be careful though. There is a fine line between coming across as a complete dork and a guy who loves his hobby and simply doesn’t give a sh*t what she thinks.


    • This works better if your passion is something action-oriented like, as you say, sailing or hunting, and not so much if it’s something technical, like computer programming or theoretical math. Sure, the latter can be made to sound interesting with sufficient showmanship, but the former would not require such a herculean effort. If the topic bores her, and then you neg her for being bored, you’re still boring.


  22. You nailed it sir

    Knowledge like this is what seperates the aspiring PUA with the 5-10% success rate from the experienced player with a 60-80% success rate

    I have always had a radar for being try-hard. But I’d say it was solidified in my unconsious after Mystery talked about this very topic in MM


  23. Brasil61 for the win..yep..


  24. “Women instead (and particularly in the company of men who aspire to be their lovers) want to careen from one subject to another, getting their emotional fill in superficial bursts of topical teasers”

    IOW, a totally vapid airhead. And yet, they wonder why we don’t take them more seriously.


  25. Don’t underestimate the ‘running gag’ or its inverse, the delayed punchline.


  26. If you make the assumption that intelligence and attractiveness are independent, the probability of finding a hot girl (top 10% hotness) who is also not a total idiot and could hold a conversation (top 10% IQ) would be 0.1*0.1 = 0.01= 1%, right? That is depressing. (But in reality, attractiveness and IQ have a weak positive correlation, so maybe the real statistics aren’t that dire)

    I’m a woman but if I were a man, I think I would sacrifice a point or so on the attractiveness scale if I met a girl who wasn’t totally boring- at least, if I wanted a longer-term relationship. (yes yes I know that men just want to have lots of sex with hot women so this all irrelevant)

    [heartiste: men sometimes do sacrifice a point or two on the female attractiveness scale, but not so much for the reason you suggest. More often, men make this calculation to avoid getting hitched to a high infidelity risk.]


  27. Solid gold. Not to focus to narrowly on the caveat, but I think the running gag was an element of game that Mystery used to refer to as “conspiracy”. Btw economics blogs rock.


  28. When I first meet a sexy lady, it feels right to straight up lose interest in these light-topic flows. You’re sending the same signal as when you change topic, except stronger. Eventually, something really cool happens and she’ll look up at you all starry-eyed, happy to be getting your attention. That’s when you lock eyes (left, noobs, left is the happy eye) and get your smirk on. Look down at her, talk to her about fun personal stuff and pull her in. After 20, 30 minutes, now that you both are giggling at anything and feel like “it’s happening,” either demand you two find a place to dance (“promise not to embarrass me if I drag you to the dance floor?”), rejoin your group with a new arm piece, or tease the bitch and drop her for something dramatic to do (shot, make fun of a friend, start a fight, etcetera etcetera.)


    • Whose left?


    • Interesting. I was at a party on the weekend with the girl I’m seeing.

      At this same party was a girl who I’ve been gaming, who sends me constant IOI’s and clearly wants to move this up. But sees I’m with someone.

      I danced with her a few times.

      She was wearing very shirt skirt that kept hiking up. I bounced from topic to topic….

      SHe was wearing a black dress with a kind of cape.

      Me: Vampirila…

      Her; HAHAHA…Adjusting dress and looking in mirror…

      ME: You’re so vain…need more time?

      Her: hahahahahahah, hitting me more IOI’s Stops, dress starts hiking up again….

      ME: Hmmmm….smirking……”Need some help there?”

      HER: Shit-testing….”hahahaha” “What do you want to do?”

      ME; pausing, milking the tension… “I want to dance…”


      She kept winking at me, eyeing me. But I was with someone else.

      I later dropped her a flirty note about her dress…But she never replied after that which was unusual.

      I wonder if being with another woman pissed her off….was it a turn-off or on?

      I wonder if being unavailable to her or to show her more attention that she was demanding was somehow a detriment to my further gaming her.

      However, in this social situation, I clearly can’t abandon girl I’m there with for some possibility and in a judgemental social circle.

      I got the gina tingles from the boucing around topics….but now target may be somehow hurt, upset, angry that she couldn’t have me….


      • I hate the “you’re so vain” trope personally. It’s just a terrible sounding word.




        I guess I should respond to your actual question. Yes, women are attracted to men other women are attracted to. Don’t hit on girls that know you have a girlfriend- it sets off their creeper alarm and they will tell on you. Also, it signals you don’t know how to act around attractive women.


      • Good points.

        But in this particular case, the girl was giving me IOI’s.

        Is it beta not to try to move that forward?

        You don’t want a mess on your hands.

        On the other hand…if they’re giving IOI’s what’s the response?


  29. That’s always been hard for me, that concept of “being in the moment” and simply flowing with a conversation instead of my usual habit of going deep into the paint with a subject.

    I’m seriously considering taking an improv class to practice this and get it under my belt.


  30. Beneath the illusion and reflection of shallow waves lies a deeper, more enveloping, mysterious current.


  31. an increasingly apt comparison is that Gaming women is like being a babysitter – except for (hopefully) the nookie part.

    there’s the ADD, the activity-finding, the crying.


  32. Good tip, gotta keep things light and fun.


  33. When talking to a girl – any any age, I recommend the “The Charlie Parker Rule of Jazz” Which translates in this context as (roughly) “whatever you say or do to a woman make sure that about 50% of it is contrary to what she expects.
    Less than that and her hind-brain will power down. Too much more and she will get all skittish like a un-medicated Thoroughbred colt
    You guys realize that improv jazz was born as a kind of ongoing experiment in regard to the question: “How many minutes of what kind of music do I need to play before a hot chick is fiddling with my zipper (with that crazed look it her eyes,)..
    Anyway, the Olde Masters would tell you to only make senses, clear sense, no more than half the time.


  34. I agree with your general premise. But I think the reasoning behind women not being interested in a man who delves in one topic is because it seems feminine (the opposite of what you said). Women tend to talk things to death. That’s one of many manly men’s main complaint. A masculine man recognizes a topic, if there is a problem or dispute, he resolves it. Then he moves on.

    A man who acts like a woman in conversation is a sure fire turn off.

    So I guess those posters (and Heartiste) who have the natural inclination to continuously blab about a topic should consider their gender leanings.


    • “A man who acts like a woman in conversation is a sure fire turn off.”

      You come closer to truth than the blog post.

      The female attraction to delightful, superficial amusement is contrary to the conversational dominance of men speaking like men. Much of the author’s advice about game requires us to be metrosexual, stealing plays from the opponent’s playbook, ingratiating ourselves by mimicking women so that we may spring our traps. He asks us to think like women, to put ourselves in a female frame of mind so that we can game them all the better.

      Now, men speaking like men is not all insidery beta-nerd-talk that squeezes the life out of an artful exchange. The author rightly criticizes betas who defeat their seductive purpose by giving over to their excitement (the girl is talking to me!) and falling back on non-applicable patterns of speaking — i.e., addressing a woman at a bar like he would a colleague on a work project. By all means, erase this bad habit.

      But why be her little tickle toy, why press the buttons the princess believes she’s entitled to getting pressed? That is servile. The overriding purpose is my amusement, not hers, and being her dancing monkey is at cross-purposes to the mission. Besides: she responds better to the male demand for amusement than the male attempt to amuse (a.k.a., clownishly trying too hard).

      If the conversation tires me, I abruptly shift topics, and that is usually to the relief of everyone involved, since most interlocutors will allow a waning topic to revert to the blabbiest blabbermouth (and biggest bore) who cannot suffer silences easily. If the conversation inspires me, I hold forth. The key to good talk is, as always, listening, pacing, well-timed pauses. Reading body language. If you are conducting what amounts to a selfish monologue, pausing only for superficial politeness, no one will relate, and instead of figuratively talking to yourself, you will be literally.

      If you are an interesting, reasonably articulate man, the topics that interest you tend to interest others, and involving others requires artful listening, generosity, and improvisation. Riding roughshod over the anodyne sound-fillers that make up a typical female conversation is a respectable act of dominance, and a relief to everyone involved, whether they be two in intimacy or a group of many.


      • I’ll ignore some of your insults to my gender and say I agree. Dominance= doing what you want. Not becoming a pussy who is only there for the amusement of women.

        [Heartiste: Inspiring arousal in women is not the same as being a pussy. Hope this helps.]


      • Aw, honeybear, don’t you know when boys pull your hair it means they like you? I negged your whole “gender” and didn’t even know it. I can’t even tell which parts of my statement were pejorative.

        A man can tickle girls with his speech, and that helps arousal, but it gives too much social control to female expectations on the approach. The better play is to speak about topics that he finds interesting and communicate strength and independence by not giving in to the established (and often tedious) default female conversational dynamic. Amusement can also be contrary to arousal, at the expense of the performing clown.

        It’s a fine line to arouse through wit without making a joke of yourself (see the Sasha Geek Game post a week or two back), and pulling off that maneuver cleanly requires a strong sense of dominance — i.e., I did not come out tonight to indulge the petty amusements of some princess. I came out to demonstrate that my amusements are her amusements, she just didn’t realize it yet. If you are feeding her what she consciously wants, rather what her deep-seated instinct desires, you might as well just buy her drinks and make your contemptible subservience all the less creatively exhausting. Comedy is hard, a couple Smirnoff Ices are easy.

        Got to keep the mysterious and detached vibe right up to making the close. Then when she is firmly in your grip, you may tickle at will, till she pees.


      • on August 5, 2011 at 11:45 am Obstinance Works

        Much of the author’s advice about game requires us to be metrosexual, stealing plays from the opponent’s playbook, ingratiating ourselves by mimicking women so that we may spring our traps.

        I don’t read it as such. He’s keeping the conversation edgy more than anything. I know I guy who talks like this in everything. He makes people keep the conversation entertaining to him by cutting people off when they fail.


    • “Continuously blab[bing]” about a topic on a blog … is the point of a blog. Men are analytical and we naturally converse with purpose, to create a result. Thesis + antithesis = synthesis. Or “dialectic.” See the Platonic dialogues. So, while your criticism applies perfectly to bar banter, it is not applicable here.

      Men are finally employing science (observation, experiment, control) to the female art of conversation, in part as a defensive counterrevolution to feminism, leading to analytical clearinghouses like this blog. When men concentrate their focus on something — be that the Manhattan Project or the Apollo Mission — the results are effective — a nuclear bomb in three years, a man on the moon in under ten. In other words, after a century of deference hoping feminist terrorism would fade, the battle will be short now that we have finally begun our reply. Men are focusing on recovering their manhood from a century of ideological capture.

      “So I guess those posters (and Heartiste) who have the natural inclination to continuously blab about a topic should consider their gender leanings.” Very well put.


  35. on August 1, 2011 at 11:59 pm UnHappyCamper

    Wow man, I gotta say this explains why women love dudes who can salsa dance. It’s the unpredictable but still relevant transitions from move to move that keeps them interested. But just like Salsa dancing, in flirtatious conversation the man has gotta take the lead.

    You are connecting nodes in my brain, keep it up dude.


  36. From my experience, if a woman is interested in you, unless she is shy or thinks you are far above her in your value, she will ask you questions; quite often in the form of shit testing ones.

    If a woman is not interested in you, she won’t ask questions.

    Where guys often go wrong in interacting with women is that they ask the woman too many questions.


  37. Curious as to how this relates to text game wherein your conversation can be temporally distorted and you have to rely on previously seeded callback humor to get them back into the right emotional state.

    Is there a time frame for call back humor? Does it look needy if you bring up something old even if it had more emotional resonance that whatever the current dialogue holds?


  38. Re: Unpredictability.

    Sometimes I wonder if an occaisonal slip in the game is really all that bad if you’re in a situation where it’s not an immediate blow out. i wonder if a good recovery doesn’t make you less predictable tougher to size up. Or maybe bad is always bad. Just a thought.


    • on August 2, 2011 at 1:24 am UnHappyCamper

      I think that if you accidentally slip up and do a beta habit, realize it, and then figure out a smooth way back to alpha it can be very potent. Check out the Beta Switch post from awhile back.


  39. “Don’t hit on girls that know you have a girlfriend- it sets off their creeper alarm and they will tell on you. Also, it signals you don’t know how to act around attractive women.”

    Because, you know, it’s like a sisterhood with strong women looking out for each other and there’s hardly any backstabbing at all.


  40. on August 2, 2011 at 1:52 am Good Luck Chuck

    As a man it is your responsibility to lead the conversation but this also gives you the privilege of changing the subject at any time.

    If she says something dumb or mundane, something that is played out, or something that has no foundation all you have to do is move on to a topic that is completely irrelevant that will give you the basis to lead and maneuver to your advantage.



  41. From WSJ, the trouble with old eggs:

    The success rate with donor eggs is 80% on the first transfer. Many people turn to this option (one out of 10 IVF cycles in the U.S., at last count), though nearly none admit it. I can imagine using this option if I were with a man to whom I would love to give a child, but right now, I’d be match-making a couple of strangers in my womb.

    I know that it’s not just genes that you pass down to a child; it’s also your spirit and what you believe. Still, I resist having someone else’s baby.

    It’s because of my thumbs. The left one is long, skinny and straight—very feminine. The right is squat, thicker and curved—definitely masculine. The first is my mother’s; the second, my father’s. They’re exact replicas. My sister has them too.

    There’s something about being able to see where at least some of your parts are from. But when will I get to the point where, as Doc S. says, “nothing’s going to make a dent”? How can you tell when you’re destroying your own life to create another?

    Oh, she shouldn’t be so dramatic about destroying her life. From what society tells me, parentage’s so inconsequential that the wallet doesn’t even want to know he’s not the actual dad. It’s something of a faux-pas to even ask, that’s how irrelevant it is.

    Maybe her IVF doctor should just implant someone else’s eggs without telling her? She’d be far more likely to get pregnant and physicians apparently — because they take their hippocratic oath very seriously — have even found that wallets are happier if actively lied to. Wallets don’t mind at all, that’s why it’s done. I’m sure she wouldn’t mind either. She’d glow with joy.


  42. on August 2, 2011 at 2:24 am Thinkstomuch

    I call this ability ‘topic volitility’. Needed when interacting with the uncritical minds of most atractive women, this is also nessisary to have when conversing with groups of three or more and seems to follow an exponential function. more people in conversation = greater topic volitility.


  43. Amusing observation you made about how men exhaust a topic to death, taking it to the subatomic level. An obvious example is this blog but it doesn’t matter what the subject is, it could be about dirt, most women can’t keep up with men on a specific topic and they get overwhelmed. I see it all the time, on the net and in real life.


    • Indeed a great post, and a good comment.

      As I’ve scoured the archives of this blog there are countless examples of the above mentioned.

      It’s rather entertaining to watch women’s circuits fry after only a few rounds of logical argument destroys their emotional/reactional vagina babble.


    • And still they cannot see much less handle the big picture, either.

      As for dirt, geologists love that shit.


  44. I consider good fingernail game when my finger (and nail, naturally) are jammed up her ass just a few hours after I met her.


  45. normal women, that is; not nerdgirls who make up the majority of their gender who read blogs not having to do with celebrity gossip or food

    I don’t get it?!? Does this mean girls that read blogs are nerdgirls? I read the above, like, 10x and still I did not get.


    • Yes, most people on this blog are nerds – the guys, however, are trying to learn how not to be nerds. Girls don’t need to learn how not to be nerds, because though girls do not like nerdboys, boys like nerdgirls.


    • Means women that read blogs that are NOT about celebrity gossip or food, are nerds.


      • Yes, which includes this blog. Heartiste was deflecting cater-NAWALT-ing that would be inevitable from the regular Neecies of this blog.


      • I read this blog and I’m totally a cool girl. No joke! I’m too fun to be nerdy.
        R doesn’t know what he’s talking about.


  46. I have to admit, this post reeks of the original Roissy we’ve all come to love and adore. Great post.


  47. Good post, Heartiste!


  48. I must, at least in part, disagree. Deborah Tannen has researched women and men’s conversational style, and found women love to beat topics into the ground, while men like to change topics more often. My experience backs this up.

    [H: When women talk among other women, perhaps this is true. But when women are in conversation with men, particularly men who could be potential lovers, the dynamic is exactly the opposite.]


    • Women love to beat a topic into the ground when it is about them and their wants, needs, desires, moods, etc. In order to get their fix of that, they will, on occasion, listen to a friend’s rambling about those same topics, and feign interest in what their friend’s story is. (Chick lit is simply the entertaining of that sort of narcissism over 300 or so pages.)

      Even if they seem interested in their man’s (or a potential mate’s) topics, it is usually only to the extent they are calculating how the information plays into the woman’s plans. For example when hearing about some success at work the man experienced, she is doing the math on whether this allows for children sooner or later, or whether a new kitchen addition is possible, etc.

      But they bore really, really quickly when the information is not perceived as relevant to their own interest. Don’t believe me? Try discussing your sense of some matter far removed from their daily life. There is almost never an interest in it–only a polite stare and dimming eyes.


  49. I think there is two sides to this.

    On one side yes sticking and returning to the old topics are bad idea and basically attraction killer.

    However, on another side jumping from topic to topic will make you look like entertainer and dancing monkey.

    I think if you look into how natural conversation flows, than you will see that there is threading, means 4-6 different topics that being discussed at the same time.

    My personal opinion is that when you speak to women, it doesn’t mater what topic is, what mater is to be able engage her emotions.


  50. This. This. Be a surprising, light, cocky conversationalist. Just remember that no one topic means ANYTHING ultimately. Women listen to tone and inflection more than content. Let go of the content and let your mind roam free.

    Speaking as a recovering hyper-analytical nerdgirl: this blog taught me about my own desire. I used to start intense analytical discussions with brilliant men, and then things would go downhill from there because I came off as bitchy and probably masculine. But what I secretly wanted was to provoke teasing, conversational jumping around, and all those other signs of an alpha conversationalist.

    Their aspie-ness let them allow me to have a “serious” conversation and I would get so frustrated, even though I could enjoy the content on a certain level. But it was sooooo unsexy.

    This blog is reforming me. I may have an IQ above 145 but I will not let that ruin my life!

    In the last month I’ve lost weight, gotten contact lenses and makeup and new clothes, and started going out to classy events and being more extroverted. I went from only having ugly beta/omega nerds hitting on me to higher betas and lesser alphas, just by giggling and looking/acting more feminine. I stopped arguing, I stopped provoking, and it worked so well.


    • “I could enjoy the content on a certain level. But it was sooooo unsexy.”

      My advice: Don’t play stupid, (… in case you’re really THAT smart …btw. how do people know they “may have an IQ above 145”?) just to appear more sexy. If a guy is too dumb to pass your shit tests, he’s not the right one for you. When a guy who’s alpha enough comes around, your brain will stop using logical thinking and you’ll be able to relax. Although I also think becoming a nicer person in general – like you said, you stopped arguing too much – is a very good idea, too.

      “But what I secretly wanted was to provoke teasing, conversational jumping around, …”

      Maybe these guys were not interested in teasing you, because they were not attracted to you sexually or they were, on the other hand, afraid of you (=not alpha enough). If you want to provoke teasing, show them you are interested in them and don’t be so coldhearted. I think they are afraid of your smartness, although it’s possible that they also didn’t find you sexy enough (so it’s good that you’ve lost weight now – keep taking care of your health).

      “This blog is reforming me.”

      Good to see I’m not the only victim of this blog. I have to force myself not to spend too much time here …


      • Hey Maya. Unfortunately, I do know I have an IQ in this range due to childhood testing. I would gladly donate 30 points to someone else and be a happier person. I skipped a couple of grades in middle school and graduated college early — homeschooling and testing out of general education requirements. Sheltered and smart and surrounded by nerdy beta male father/uncles/grandfathers. It runs in the family to value abstract intelligence and I was never taught any feminine wiles. They were held in contempt by my socially awkward female relatives and friends.

        I’m in a sexually monogamous [he has options but he chooses serial monogamy because of paranoia about STDs and he’s super picky about who he “officially” dates] FWB arrangement with an alpha and I’m letting him improve me. He’s brutally honest and is teaching me how to dress/act/flirt. I know I’ll never be his girlfriend and he could jettison me for someone hotter, but I’m happy with the situation for now. I’m learning how to improve my lot.

        You are right on target, why would they want to tease me if I’m not sexy?


      • “I’m in a sexually monogamous [he has options but he chooses serial monogamy because of paranoia about STDs and he’s super picky about who he “officially” dates] FWB arrangement with an alpha and I’m letting him improve me. He’s brutally honest and is teaching me how to dress/act/flirt.”

        FWB sounds like prostitution to me. How old are you? I guess you’re still very very young? In case you are not, you should try to find someone who truly loves you instead of spending your youth and beauty on this guy who doesn’t respect you (a guy who loves you would not be criticizing your looks and femininity … Eww)
        You’ll have your heart broken when this FWB “serial monogamy” arrangement ends … And do you think you’ll be able to find a husband just as alpha as your costumer is?

        I’m happy you’re worried about STI’s. Thank god.

        Go check this blog as well: www,


      • ‘fwb’ is ‘friends with benefits’.

        he’s teaching her how to be a desirable woman. this will improve her chances of finding an alpha husband if that’s what she wants. if he didn’t care about or respect her, he wouldn’t be doing this.

        p.s. for someone who’s never had a boyfriend, you seem to have a lot of advice on male/female relations. i bet hannah’s smart enough to figure out the value of said advice.


      • Yes, but this ‘alpha’ (I don’t get how people can call their partners alpha or use numbers to describe girls – it’s a bit distasteful to describe someone you love with numbers …) is just fucking her. He IS NOT IN LOVE with her.
        Do you really think another alpha will fall in love with her? Knowing another “alpha” was fucking her for free? Oh, she won’t tell him … ?!

        “he’s teaching her how to be a desirable woman.”

        Sounds distasteful to me. Would you be happy if a friendly 10 would be teaching you how to be more alpha in exchange to LJBF relationship? Do you need a woman to give you advice on how to be a man? EWWWW.
        She doesn’t need a man to tell her how to be a woman, either.

        Hannah doesn’t need to be a prostitute/slut to improve herself. She can buy feminine clothes, go to hairdresser, exercise more. It’s not that hard to act feminine when you are a woman. Besides – having casual sex it’s the most unfeminine thing that a woman can do.

        Hannah, stop being a whore! Have some self-respect. It’s such a shame for a high IQ woman (please, shut up about your above 145 IQ from now on! – it’s pathetic enough you mentioned it) to behave like you do …


      • Maya, thank you for the link. I’m reading and learning.

        itsme is pretty accurate- He is an emotionally damaged alpha – he freely admits it’s hard for him to fall in love and he has few close friends, though he’s quite popular. A super jock with a secret nerdy side that he gets to indulge with me . . . he really does love to talk about the debt ceiling and politics and science with me. Except when he doesn’t like my tone he will bend me over and spank me – that’s how I learned that this was ALWAYS the dominant reaction I was seeking. The Story of N, the Nerdgirl’s Enlightenment.

        In his own words: “Our sexual chemistry is amazing and if I could love anyone, I would love you. But you aren’t hot enough to be a girlfriend/trophy wife and that’s what I need to advance my career. I’ll marry a 10 and eventually cheat on her, and never have an interesting conversation with her. But I will make sure you can get a moderately hot, rich guy after me.”

        Before, I would have pretended to be superior to him or said he was soulless. But he’s smart and honest and will tell me what other men don’t have the balls to. I do need to marry someone more beta than him (who is capable of love and a little more fidelity).

        We are aware of what we do for each other. I’ll be sad when it ends, but I’m getting something invaluable, which is how to be attractive to a better class of men. Since he became my non-boyfriend four months ago, he’s paid for me to fix my teeth, do my hair, and bought me clothes. It’s a power trip high for him to transform me and order me around.


      • Hannah,

        “Since he became my non-boyfriend four months ago, he’s paid for me to fix my teeth, do my hair, and bought me clothes.”

        Basically, you’re a prostitute.

        Are you sure you’ll be okay with that in the future?

        Oh, you’re new clothes and teeth will improve your SMV more than being a whore will lower it? I hope you made a correct calculation. Knowing your IQ I have no doubts you did.


      • Do you really think another alpha will fall in love with her? Knowing another “alpha” was fucking her for free?

        if the first alpha leaves her a better woman than when they first met, then it is quite possible for a subsequent alpha to love her.

        She doesn’t need a man to tell her how to be a woman

        she’s smart enough to realize that she’s currently not the woman she wants to be, has found someone who cares enough to teach her (because nobody else did), and she’s willing to learn.


    • Hannah,
      You have shown that nerdy girls still prefer the cool guys that the other girls do.


      • Bingo.

        I’m learning that there are ways to have intelligent/lively conversation and not play dumb, but still be feminine. It’s difficult. I’m actively trying to ditch the feminist brainwashing I’ve been fed for two decades.


    • Glad this blog is helpful for men and women alike.
      One final advice though: don’t slut it up!


      • But dont make the good guys jump through too many hoops. IOW, don’t shit test.


      • Women have no control over whether they shit test, it’s nearly entirely subconscious. And so it should be, it’s how they naturally separate the men from the boys. We as men should have no problem parrying or ignoring shit tests, especially after studying at the Chateau.


    • Anyone who cites their IQ is ringing an alarm bell. And a woman who does? Defcon One.

      Friendly advice to Hannah: No doubt you wouldn’t dream of drawing attention to your documented intelligence in any social situation, now that “this blog is reforming” you. But take it a step further and eliminate all desire, every thought, that such a credential is anything other than a characteristic to hide forever and deny at every turn.

      Female intelligence manifested in a manly way is not intimidating or even annoying so much as pathetically overcompensating. Use your intelligence to become more feminine (your reading this blog is a sign you have already begun that project). Female intelligence is like having an abnormally large appendix — not necessary to the functioning of a woman, and likelier to cause damage than it is to serve any useful purpose. Treat it as such.

      The benefit of applying your intelligence for “better conversations” or towards masculine equality is a canard. Men don’t want better conversations, they want to fuck you. If they want an invigorating chat, they’ll talk about Nnamdi Asomugha going to the Birds with their buddies over beer.

      Female mimicry of this manly ritual is vaguely repulsive. If we ask your opinion about the debt ceiling talks, it will likely be to distract you from the pain of your first sodomy. There are no exceptions to this. We hate, hate, hate talking serious matters with you. Even if you can do it, you cannot do it well enough for us to ignore the sexual undercurrent of all male-female interaction. That’s why we’d prefer even dumb talk with dumb men between which there exists no unspoken tensions.

      This blog talks about 95% of female sexual market value being in a woman’s youth and looks. That 95 figure is intended as a corrective to the prevailing lies. It is a counterweight to the uglifying that has occurred under the banner of “It’s What’s Inside That Counts” feminist self-esteem. But 95% is exaggerated. Poise, posture, and yes, intelligence are factors we can’t waste our time talking much about while pure physical beauty is still under assault as meaningless. Even some manly qualities like strength, courage, and confidence are attractive in a woman when applied to feminine ends.

      Female intelligence can be enormously attractive. It is the evidence of a human being beneath the (far more important) externals. Your intelligence will add an ineffable glow about you, it will shine through your eyes in ways that hotter, vacuous women cannot match. You are more in control of yourself, more aware of the dynamics around you, as if to smile contentedly and broadcast to the world, “I get it.” Very hot. Intelligence, like all talents, is like witnessing a homely looking virtuoso doing superhuman things with, say, a piano or violin. Or — my personal weakness — a woman who can really sing. It’s strange for a man, so locked in to the visual virtues as we are, to feel an increased, undeniable magnetism toward a girl whose physical appearance did not change since the moments before we witnessed her angelic skills on display.

      So, understand that your intelligence is a gift, but it is a dangerous one if mishandled. I feel bad for all of the smart “interesting” girls I left dangling while I pursued bimbos just because, as much as I respected their potential, I knew they would abuse their own intelligence and my compulsions would lead me to trouble. Now, if you learn how to marshal your rare resource and deploy it sparingly and effectively, femininely and passively? That can be quite a weapon. You’re a smart girl, right? Then you should be able to figure out how to use your talent wisely.


      • Oh god, I would never mention IQ in real life! I only mentioned it here because it’s one of those “lowering your dating market value” questions on the test for women. I know it’s a handicap – as I mentioned, I was raised by a family of very smart people who are arrogant about their abilities and value them above all else, to compensate for how socially inept they are. The first step to liberating myself from this was reading Nietzsche on slave morality. ie how the weak elevate their weaknesses to feel morally superior to the strong and healthy.

        ***Feminine*** strength and intelligence are in such short supply in this culture. I know men are advised to learn from alpha males as mentors if they were raised by raging betas, and I wish I knew an older woman skilled in these matters. I live deep in SWPL territory and I haven’t met any.

        Thank you for your reply. It’s taken me a while to realize that wisdom is very different from intelligence, and to be happy requires wisdom applicable to one’s situation, abilities, and traits. This seems to be what you are talking about and I will apply it as best I can.


      • Hannah you have emotional and social intelligence in addition to IQ I can see that in how you write. You are polite here, and you have an understanding of your FWB. I think your prospects are excellent for meeting a great future partner. I don’t think you’re anywhere close to whoring yourself out as Maya says. That’s harsh judgement and not socially acceptable in real life at least face to face. It amazes me that some will come here and put on a persona that won’t work in the world at large and yet think their advice is worth taking.

        Sorry Maya I don’t normally call people out, but if you’re a woman in real life you’re an angry one.


      • aoefe,

        Fine, thoughtful post. You are right about the unbalanced Maya, but she is clearly *all* woman. In fact she edifies, as her unrestrained bitchiness shows men how grim things can get, despite the sentimentality about “the feminine” that survives here and elsewhere. Of course there’s hope for Maya as well, but she needs a whole lot of bullshit beaten out of her. She may as well take that beating here.

        The women who comment here are instructive. They sort themselves into a few obvious categories very fast.

        You need to be a wife, aoefe. 😉


      • We will have to meet, Hannah. I can think of nothing hotter than traveling deep behind the Iron SWPL Curtain to fuck the final remnants of der letzte Mensch out of a secret meat-eating Nietzschean surrounded by the herd of arugula grazers. Street address?

        Any medical conditions that might prevent you from being restrained and in a state of unsated arousal for three hours?

        You are a nascent example of how female intelligence can be an asset. You could be a plainjane 5 who just dipped into the 6-7 range by submitting ecstatically to the inexorable sexual dynamic, rather than using your mind to quixotically crusade against the id with pseudointellectual feminist political theory. Your project requires a mental suppleness that escapes even the smartest of the bespectacled grad-student cows.

        I am a Hannah fan. You are on the right track, you have it within you to control an alpha, if somehow you can match that mind of a 10 with the body and face of a 9 or 8 or maybe even 7. Godspeed.

        Still: don’t just refrain from citing your IQ in social situations, and don’t just stop citing it in honest forums here. You must purge yourself completely of your family’s atavistic disease. It is one thing to recognize the weakness of “very smart people who are arrogant about their abilities and value them above all else,” and quite another to be “liberated” entirely of their influence. I can tell you are not truly free of their influence yet because of your reflexive habit of relying on a contrived quotient to declare your quality (expressed in your original post), even if only to yourself. Now that you realize the general irrelevance of female IQ, you must now take the further step and contain it from infecting your behavior in every way.

        Think of your big brain as very big tits. Most large bosomed women are actually fat and sloppy, with droopy exaggerated udder-bags they mistake for an asset while actually revolting men. And yet there is the rare young specimen whose outsized yet firm and slightly disproportional endowment stands like a glorious top-weight upon an hourglass. Big tits, like big brains, are irrelevant at best and actively deleterious at worst to female attractiveness. But with the proper care and perspective, they can be great assets indeed.


  51. on August 2, 2011 at 10:11 am Rollo Tomassi

    One of the greatest failings guys new to Game make is that they assume women communicate like men. This is a very hard pill for freshly self-aware men to swallow after having been conditioned for the better part of a lifetime to believe the gender-equalist mantra that women are “just like them” beyond anything further than having tits and a vagina. And so, as not to fall into the ‘sexist’ trap of presuming women are anything less completely rational agents of their own independence, we default to our preferred, direct, deductive, overt way of relating information.

    When it comes to communication, men focus on content – deductive transference of pertinent information to solve a problem (or usually winning an argument). Women focus on the context of the communication; ‘how’ was the information delivered, what did she feel when it was communicated, what associations does she imply from it and any subcommunications she perceived in the interaction? This simple fact accounts for women’s much larger capacity for language, and sensitivity for verbal and physical cues in conversation. Brain imaging proves that the act of communication is actually more neurologically rewarding for women than it is for men.


  52. Rollo is spot on. A woman, even a smart one, does not want to discuss important issues of general interest with a man to whom she is sexually attracted.

    Men need to disabuse themselves of the notion of any similarity between the sexes.


    • Women don’t want to discuss anything with men they are not attracted to. They want to either tell such men what to do for them (e.g., beta service to earn further interactions) or simply make them go away.


  53. Conversation with a dame, for me, is still about push-pull than it is about value adding to the relationship. My deepest conversations of value are with my guy friends, mentors, proteges and customers — all of those conversations make me wiser and help me strengthen my own viewpoints.

    Talking with a woman is broken down into 3 primary concerns:

    1. Flirtation (not necessarily sexual, more about wit and humor)
    2. Payment (giving her some of her needs so that she continues to service mine)
    3. Warfare (putting her in her place when she shit-tests)

    I guarantee that ALL conversation with all dames early on, for me, has these 3 parts in equal measure, with the third one declining in quantity if I decide to keep her around. I won’t keep a constant shit-tester in my bed for long, if at all.

    Since the long-term relationships have a conversation economy demand (for her) of flirtation and payment, it’s in my economic demand interest to provide a good supply of both. That means light-hearted for #1, and non-aggressive responses for #2 (“uh huh”, “yeah”, “really?”, “curious”, “you’re kidding”, “wow”, “I believe that”, “Go on” and so on).

    If it’s a gal I just met, I treat her as a social product, no different than a bar, restaurant, party or event: bounce, bounce, bounce. If I strike up a conversation, it’s only to get her number and sow the seeds of interest/curiosity in her hamster.


  54. Freakin’ treasure hunt trying to find this blog again.


    • he’s trying desperately
      to be rid of all
      Teen A-holes! ™
      clogging up this blog


    • The author is beyond paranoid about his identity being revealed. It’s hard to blame him, considering how instantly ruinous certain opinions torn from context can be on a person’s life offline.

      The internet will eventually have to develop a “limited liability persona” vehicle just like corporations were invented to allow a limit to the risk of capital — if the creativity of interconnectedness is to find full flower. Otherwise anyone with half a brain and lots to lose will be stuck with the least worst option of riskless anonymity.

      I wouldn’t mind applying a discoverable alias to my opinions online. But a person’s greatest asset in the information age is the control over his identity — witness the tremendous leverage of personal info aggregators like Facebook (estimated $50B market cap) and the horsetrading of databases of names among media companies. So, until there is a middle ground where I can claim credit for my utterances here broadcast worldwide without putting my livelihood at stake, anonymity is the only option.

      The medium is still virtually embryonic, not even in its infancy. It takes time to develop workable customs. Until then, we’ll have to put up with all the pseudonym shifting, as childish and cowardly as they may appear to people still applying the conventions of obsolescing forms of communication, like private mail or phone calls, where the physical limits of the medium also served as liability limits to its users.


  55. Not to mention, it broke all of the RSS feeds I had to past posts. I’ve never seen a blog owner put so much effort into making things hard for his readers to follow him. Not good marketing practice, just sayin.


  56. actually Being interesting is the hard part ..for most young men ..that means breaking your comfort level thru varied experience .. and then comfort in expressing yourself from experience..

    that means travel, scuba, photography, philosphy, art, history..sports culture

    acting class single best thing any young guy could do for himself in learning to talk with women in a relaxed way..


  57. Nothing says summertime so much as a roseate vulva.


  58. I must, at least in part, disagree. Deborah Tannen has researched women and men’s conversational style, and found women love to beat topics into the ground, while men like to change topics more often. My experience backs this up.

    what i’ve read on this, i don’t have the references as i’m not on my home computer, is that women mostly just talk about other people and relationships. here they will talk forever on the same topic. but when the topic is something more abstract, physical, or not people-oriented, they are not interested.

    also, the problem here isn’t just that a guy is trying to beat a topic in to the ground (although it is a very common problem and one of primary misunderstanding between the sexes), but that it’s obvious they’re milking a topic as an excuse to keep talking. it’s needy.


  59. This is why I spit better game when I’m high.


  60. To vaguely paraphrase Sofia: Normal women don’t like thinking in the abstract, at least not whilst browsing the sexual market.

    Any beta can win an argument. And us rightists should know. Being logical and right doesn’t make you popular.


  61. Maya – the site won’t let me directly reply under your comment.

    I did not ask for the things he gave me – we were already sleeping together and I didn’t even ask to be bought a drink. I refused each thing for a while before he convinced me that he genuinely felt like doing it. He has vastly more money than me (that’s easy because I’m a student) and basically he wanted me to look hot for him in ways I could not afford myself.

    I agree that this would be pathetic behavior if the man were anywhere near my own sexual market value. But to be honest, he’s so far out of my dating/marrying league that it’s not a comparable situation. John/whore isn’t the right paradigm. He calls me My Fair Lady and jokes that he’s rescuing me from nerd hell. He won’t love me at the end of it, but with some luck, someone else will.

    I’m hoping to soon take what I learn and apply it to men who are not so mismatched. And for better or worse, many people my age have been in a Friends With Benefits situation. I’m not saying it’s wonderful, but I would think cheating and promiscuity are bigger dealbreakers. My number is low and having sex with this guy for a few months is definitely better than lots of different guys in the same time period – something my friends do, with much less commitment than the (temporary! I know) physical monogamy I’m getting with Paranoid About Diseases Alpha Man.

    In the anonymity of the internet we say things we wouldn’t normally. I hope I’ve made it clear that I consider my intelligence (in regards to the dating market) something comparable to a facial deformity and that I’m here on this blog for a dose of honesty. And you’re right that often very smart people “outthink” themselves into stupidity. Some of the most brilliant people I know are Marxists and believe in other ridiculous ideologies . . . sometimes it is worse than being stupid.

    If I can contribute anything here it would be to confirm the devastating/liberating truth of the concepts elaborated here and provide some anecdata.


    • “I agree that this would be pathetic behavior if the man were anywhere near my own sexual market value. But to be honest, he’s so far out of my dating/marrying league that it’s not a comparable situation.”

      He’s FAR OUT of your marrying league? And you think you will be happy marrying a guy much less attractive than this ‘alpha’ is and having sex with him for your whole life? Or you plan to improve your SMV considerably? How are you going to do that? Why can’t you do it by yourself?

      “… he wanted me to look hot for him …”

      You are a prostitute, after all.

      Stop considering your IQ like a facial deformity. Well, I don’t know how being super smart feels like, but if it’s something like very good concentration, memory, problem solving ability etc., why wouldn’t you use it for improving your life and life of the people around you?
      In my opinion IQ shouldn’t be in those DMV tests … Being smart IS very sexy. (My life goal is to have kids with a smart guy).


      • I think being with a man who is out of your league and wouldn’t marry you, but is good to you while he’s with you can be a valuable experience.


      • You think? I’d do that myself, but I’m afraid that I’ll have problems with boring sexual life later …


      • on August 5, 2011 at 11:41 am Obstinance Works

        Pretty lies, pretty lies. Tsk tsk tsk.

        Yep yep. I try to keep one high-achieving girl in my rotation. They like to do some kinky things. Ever played chess in the buff? I’m a 1700 and don’t lose the queen first. It’s the dirtiest chess board in the South. Currently working on a just-graduated valedictorian who wants to be an actress/princess.

        But now to you. You’re already well on your way to becoming a slut as you have thrown off the moral code your parents set in regards to sex.

        But you did it all for the nookie. You could have been a feminine, pretty religious girl who married a high-end Christian man, but you have been in rebellion toward your restrictive cultural rearings from your very first period on.

        You went to college, but now you’re going to get that extra milage, babe.

        You’ll cry that newly painted mascara all over your dollface for 3 days once you real eyes what I’m telling you is the truth.

        And your plyer or pmp, btw, is just turning you out maybe even literally. I’ve turned many a church gurl into a slutich. Babies all over the c’untryside, but not mine.

        Have a nice butthexed life, babe.


    • I am also a female with your same IQ (like you said, it’s something I found out as a child and nothing I have ever, or will ever, mention to anyone in real life). I hope that you do not actually consider your IQ to be comparable to a facial deformity. Some of these men post shit about how all men “hate, hate, hate talking serious matters” with women and how intelligence doesn’t matter in a women whatsoever. I have not found this to be true.

      I have had long-term relationships continuously since I was a teenager, and I am currently married, so it is really, really not a detriment to be smart- but you have to be cognizant of your other attributes, as you know. My parents raised me to be sort of girly, and I’m introverted, so I am not particularly assertive in my conversations (with neither men nor women). I think men like this. Every guy that I dated has said that they appreciated the fact that they could have legitimate conversations with me. But, I am absolutely not aggressive, and I tend to cede points that I’m not absolutely sure about. I don’t do this for men- it is just the way I am. Even intelligent men don’t seem to like combative and aggressive girls. It seems kind of lame, but it’s just the way things work, and it’s worked out pretty well for me.

      And I am also not stupid enough to think that men are primarily attracted to my sparkling wit. I have met most of the guys that I’ve dated through approaches because they thought I was pretty. I think intelligent men really appreciate the company of an intelligent woman- as long as they’re attractive and not bitchy.


      • “Some of these men post shit about how all men “hate, hate, hate talking serious matters””

        It’s not a general rule. It depends on the girl. It’s not very wise to discuss serious matters with dumb sluts and bar skanks. Betas often make this mistake, hoping that they will trigger attraction by appearing wise and smart.

        Having an intelligent conversation with a woman could be pleasant if she is somewhat clever with a decent self esteem, but these conversations should not be considered as a tool to generate attraction.


    • I usually hate to intervene in a girls conversation about relationship advice, (especially that women enjoy listening to pieces of advice, but they ultimately listen to gina tingles which have the final word) but since we’re on the internet on a decent blog, i’m gonna indulge.
      Even if i don’t want to, i agree with maya to some extent. Not on calling you a prostitute; i’ve seen worse. But sex is never, ever casual to women.
      This experience will impact your future relationship(s), probably in a negative way, especially that you seem to target men of lower value.
      My advice would be to cut your losses. You’ve benefited enough from his teachings and guidance (and hot sex). All you’re heading to now is a heartbreak.
      I would hate it if someone told that to one of my ex fuck buddies, even if it’s the only smart thing some of them should have done. But i also know that they were not going to listen to anyone. The appeal of an alpha is too strong, and you know what… i challenge you to leave him: you can’t.


  62. Ok all….I have a question/request….

    Girl I’m gaming, in my social circle, knows I’m with someone, still quite flirty, needed a contact which I provided.

    Exchange went something like this:

    Me: Try xxxx. Cezarac if it works out.

    HER: How about a Sales and Marketing who loves dancing? referring to herself.

    ME: What do I reply? How to I make this classy but not overtly creepy and sexy.

    I was thinking of replying with simply:


    or something funny like:

    “Any other choices?”

    or something mysterious like:


    What would ramp this up without being douchey?


  63. […] some good Roissy advice, I bounce the conversation around, a lot. I even employed a successful running gag. She’s got […]


  64. Ha, yet another “Holy shit, I totally do this all the time” post.

    Yeah I think it’s important to distinguish the “running gag” from the joke you said to her at a party. I definitely have gotten poor results with sending a girl a text that referenced an offhand joke I made to her when I met her. I thought I was being clever and building rapport when I probably was just showing her that I wanted to please her instead of sharing something new.


  65. on August 5, 2011 at 11:38 am Obstinance Works

    The reason, btw, I don’t post a lot is not because I’m not interested or focused. I just get bored with getting on the internet and posting. And pretty much everything gets said anyway after the first 300 posts. I even get bored mid-post and leave a lot out most of the time. Hah. Not today though I guess.

    Always did fairly well with women, but was starting to slip and was trying to get over a relationship that stole my soul for like 5-7 years off and on at the end and drove me crazy and almost got me killed, sent to prison, and set off a horrible alcholism/drugs procession that messed my life up so badly that I’m just now coming out of it all at 31. I knew what pmp’n and mack’n was, so I think I was doing a search on that when I found the PUA world.

    My introduction to PUAstry was in 06 and was mostly interested in Mystery, Deangelo, Gunwitch, and some other Itallian I can’t remember who spoke on inner game a lot. Mystery got the ball roll’n. I knew similarly about some of what he was doing already from going to dance clubs when they actually existed in the late 90’s and personally knowing plyers and pmps. So I didn’t think he was crazy like a lot of my puzsy fide friends tended to; and since I have an IQ somewhere in the 130’s (but dropped out of college nonetheless) I could recongize the underlying patterns in Mystery’s method that other players thought were just ghey. I put some of his negs and routines into play (which I haven’t done methodically since I don’t know when) and had the best week of my life doing 12 girls in 5 days all were 7s+, because I had never slept with an average girl in my life up to that point and wasn’t about to. This totally changed how I viewed relationships with women forever. And, btw, a high heels neg about attracting bad boys that I can’t even remember that was on this blog along with the lighter opener from G Man’s blog got me a 3some with an 8 and a 7 one cool winter night. So big thumbs up to the Gangster and the shadowy Dark Lord who wears the fuzzy crimson carpet slippers!

    I read the books and methods at least once from each one and visited sosuave a lot for like 2 years then quit reading altogether for over 6 months except to drop in there on occassion and to read Pook’s Mill blog which is more MRA oriented. Then that stopped and I got bored and somehow found Roosh’s blog and was like WTF is this? Laughed so hard and learned some things and think that’s how I started reading Roissy more often. So really Roosh, Heartiste, and recently Krauser are really the 3 blogs I read on the regular.

    As I read further I found out that this guy hailed from DC. I’m not going to tell you who they are or what they do even, because some of them are high up the food chain in DC, but I know a few people from DC; and even wanted to move there for a brief time after high school, but never got the chance. So the very idea that I could have possibly been bumping elbows with roissy and some of the acolytes really was one of the reasons I continued to read the blog. Some of the commenters were obviously very alacritous and interesting characters themselves not just your run-of-the-mill pmps and plyers and of course the wonted brood of up-and-commers and stalker btiches and nerd girls. Quite a Molotov cocktail of information. He pretty much pulls it all together, but I think he tends to do things more of the Mystery Method way and then veers off some on his own and is less of a natural gamer than me–that isn’t an insult. I assume attraction more early on and don’t really try to establish rapport or get into the comfort stage in the first encounter–less subtle I guess. If I do then I go Gunwitch, or my version as I see it and don’t even try to build much comfort, just enough to get the quick lay. Some people think you need like 6 hours of knowing a girl before you can sleep with her. That has not been my experience very much. It’s still the best blog around.


  66. this world is fucked.

    time to go long pussy.


  67. […] than ever. We spend more and more time in mixed sex company. Social activity is directed by the dictates of feminine whimsicality. The inability to settle basic questions early – who will be paired with whom? – […]