Canceling Dates

Here’s a good rule of thumb: Whenever a woman cancels a date and doesn’t offer an alternative time, she is rejecting you.

It doesn’t matter if the excuse she gives sounds plausible, or you have proof that she really can’t make the date due to other obligations. If she doesn’t offer a make-up date, she’s not interested enough to see you again. You *could* press the matter, but you’d be better off forgetting her and sticking with girls who demonstrate more enthusiasm to spend time with you.

In my experience, almost every girl who has cancelled a date for a presumably legitimate reason, has offered another time to meet if she already had it in her heart that she wanted to fuck me. Knowing this, it’s tactically savvy to refrain from counter-offering a make-up date until she has had a chance to make her counter offer. So when a girl cancels on you, give her space to offer another date and time; don’t rush to suggest an alternative meeting time. Like trial texting, this is a great way to gauge a woman’s emotional investment in you, and to consequently avoid dropping too much money and time on girls who are on the fence about their feelings for you.





Comments


  1. A+. These are the details men in the trenches need to know.

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  2. Agreed. It’s situations like these that not having ‘initiative’ is actually useful. When a lot of guys first learn Game (myself included) they become like rabid dogs, pursuing until you get the lay or she outright blocks you, even slaps you.

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  3. Even if she doesn’t have a back-up date in mind when she calls to cancel, she will contact you again if she wants to see you. No need to do anything other than play it cool. After she cancels, the ball is in her court and she realizes this.

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  4. i even go so far as to immediately delete the number from my phone if a girl cancels and offers no alternate time. there’s too many girls out there who want to be pursued much more than they want to be caught. let some other dude do that.

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  5. “Here’s a good rule of thumb: Whenever a woman cancels a date and doesn’t offer an alternative time, she is rejecting you.”

    LOL, I think that goes without saying.

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  6. on July 2, 2010 at 12:26 pm Sir_Chancealot

    No, it doesn’t “go without saying”. Many of the recently awakened NEED to hear such things.

    Often times, people who are very proficient in something forget to tell new people the “obvious and unwritten” rules, much to the newbie’s detriment.

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  7. sometimes these chicks cancel and offer without really meaning it, just to act like they don’t want to hurt your feelings

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  8. Another example of business rules that apply to swooping girls.

    – MPM

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  9. Alphas are bold, Betas are persistent.

    Alphas have no trouble asking girls on dates. If an Alpha should be rejected, he will happily move on to the next girl. Such behavior is Alpha because Alphas naturally have many choices and are not desperate for any one girl.

    Betas find it very difficult to ask a girl on a date. However, once a Beta gathers the courage to ask a girl out, he will refuse to accept a rejection. A Beta will rationalize any date cancellation (no matter how lame) as legitimate. Over and over a Beta will continue to pester a girl with new date invitations until he officially falls into the dreaded “creeper” category.

    This may seem like a basic concept to men who understand seduction, but the vast majority of guys fail to understand even the basic rules. After all, Hollywood has always shown Betas that the way to win over a woman’s heart is to shower the reluctant girl with flowers and affection. In reality you are more likely to be hit with a restraining order than a date.

    Moral of the story – Never give a girl a chance to reject you twice.

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  10. Yeah, i don’t think it always goes without saying, I wish someone had said this to me a couple months ago with a girl who did this who I was bent out of shape over. I think a corollary would also be it’s also rejection if she totally refuses to commit to a date/time to meet next. I asked her to see this movie we both wanted to see, and she would always say “Sure, that sounds good”, but would never ever commit to any specific time to meet.

    When you’re in the thick of things and you’re really into a girl, it’s hard to think logically about stuff like this – right now it’s obvious to me the signals I received meant things were over, but at the time it was tough to think clearly. Thankfully, logic ended up breaking through and I ended things with my dignity mostly intact.

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  11. Most people here can’t get a date, so this isn’t a problem for them.

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  12. on July 2, 2010 at 1:18 pm whorefinder

    I like this advice. Took me many years of dating to learn it the hard way.

    If she texts she can’t make it, do not text her back at all. Only respond if she offers a counter date. Otherwise, delete her number.

    If she calls, a great way to get them offer a counter date is this little trick:

    Girl: I can’t make it. (insert b.s. excuse here)

    Guy: (in best sarcastatic, knowing tone) Ooooooooooh (note: do not say “Ok” or “I understand” or anything else. Just stop talking ).

    The girl will try to get you to acknowledge or try to further explain to get you to say “I understand” or something beta. Just repeat “ooooh” or “aaaah” with sarcasm and an “Now-I-know-what-you are” tone.

    About 50% of the time, the girl will offer a counter date. The reason? Your tone and non-linguistic response will make her think, “Oh no, he thinks I’m a flake or a tease or I’m lying!”

    Chicks have a problem: they constantly want to think of themselves as very socially adept; its why they love cat-fighting, bitchy movies and TV shows. Chicks thrive on social status, and your tone indicates that you think she’s transparent, socially inept, childish, and lying. So she will offer the counter date to try to “prove” to your sarcastic, condescending side that her excuse is legitimate and she isn’t a flake or a tease.

    It doesn’t work all the time, but, to steal from Brian Fontana, 50% of the time, it works every time.

    Liked by 1 person


  13. When you’re in the thick of things and you’re really into a girl, it’s hard to think logically about stuff like this

    this reminds me of an earlier roissy post where he talks about how you may lose out on a few chances when you bail at the first sign of flakiness. it’s true. you will. you will also, however, start to change how you perceive yourself. and that’s worth missing out on a girl or two that might have been won over with more persistance. there really are too many girls in this world to spend any lengthy amount of time trying to woo some girl who’s made no effort in return.

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  14. Funny… just had a great date with a girl who rejected my first offer but accepted the second offer without hesitation.

    I also knew about this rule before I met this girl, but I decided to break it because I’m a rebel. She showed up LATE, but was so apologetic she bought me all the drinks during the date. We kissed in the bar and madeout at her house. Could not fuck her cause of logistical issues but the vibe was on.

    I think I got away with breaking this rule because of how I framed the date. I contacted her with trial text of:

    (2am) Me: helping a homeless man buy a 40z is one of the great pleasures of life

    (4am) Her: that’s a v strange text!

    (10am) me: don’t you believe in philanthropy?

    (2pm) her: of course but I assume that’s a drink?

    (215pm) me: yep. Speaking of which we should grab some this tues

    (6pm) her: sounds great but only prob is I’m working this tues

    At this point I thought, oh shit that’s a rejection! But I didn’t give a fuck and decided to hold my frame of being the prize and thought of a way to continue.

    (9pm) me: turns out your in luck cause I’m off this weds. Where do you live?

    And I got the date, and it was a good one. so although generally a rejection without a colunter-offer is generally a flag, just by continuing with strong game I got what I wanted. I’m starting to believe there are no limits to game, and the mark of a good gamer is the ability to not be scared by flags.

    Anyone else have some thoughts on my situation?

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  15. Sounds pretty foolproof.

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  16. what about non-specific “we should hang out next weekend” responses?

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  17. on July 2, 2010 at 2:20 pm Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

    @samseau: just recognizing the flag for what it is is a solid advantage, which brings confidence.

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  18. @samseau

    I had the same scenario today, and with another girl recently.

    I chalk it up to the chase – in the early stages they don’t want to make themselves seem too available. I think they just want you to deftly ping them to find out the right day.

    If I propose a day and they declare themselves busy, I reset the conversation to a different subject and then continue with that – especially if it’s over text – then ending the exchange by stating that I need to (get back to work/meet a friend/hit the gym).

    If they are interested, they’ll reinstate contact with some typical chatter, thus creating an opportunity for you to ping again, but only if the mood is right and buying temp seems there.

    To boil it down, I’d just avoid ever giving more than a single offer in any given conversation thread.

    E

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  19. Samseau,

    That’s good going. Make sure she buys the drinks and keep an eye on her time-keeping the next time.

    There are limits to game though: Don’t think it works with women who are more than 3 points ahead of you on the ten point scale. (I’m not going to be shtupping Ann Hathaway anytime soon).

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  20. and if she cancels the date when she’s ovulating, then look out…

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  21. Timely post. A girl I’m gaming and casually suggested come out to a party I was at, texted me to say she was too tired after he Latin dance class, but suggested we meet up “next week.”

    I sms’d some non-sequitor, no mention of meeting up again or “sounds good” type stuff, just a vague slightly sexual comment. Then I read this blog.

    I think game is starting to become more instinctive to me.

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  22. Yes.. no alternative time= no interest.

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  23. @Lion

    “”Betas find it very difficult to ask a girl on a date. However, once a Beta gathers the courage to ask a girl out, he will refuse to accept a rejection. A Beta will rationalize any date cancellation (no matter how lame) as legitimate.””

    Or…in my case a few months back, will continue to gaming.

    But does this hold true if you ask a chick out and she initially balks?

    A girl I had known was making all sorts of sexually loaded comments the other night.

    Her dress strap came un tied. I immediately said “We haven’t even started dancing and your clothes are coming off.”

    She said “Yes, you can help me with the other one….”

    It went on from there until the end of the night when I suggested we share a taxi back to my place. She again was surprised, hit me on the arm and said “Ohhhh”.

    That’s not a rejection is it? Seems it’s a “We’re in public, but ask me later.”

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  24. @samseau
    “”(6pm) her: sounds great but only prob is I’m working this tues

    At this point I thought, oh shit that’s a rejection! But I didn’t give a fuck and decided to hold my frame of being the prize and thought of a way to continue.

    (9pm) me: turns out your in luck cause I’m off this weds. Where do you live?””

    I get these too.

    I think you read it the way it felt and it worked.

    She left tha vague so you went for it. The “sounds great” was the offer to ask again.

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  25. you speak the truth, my faithful indian companion.

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  26. @ Lion, your post made me cringe because you described one of my episodes from college to a T. It didn’t result in a restraining order thankfully, but I definitely got sucked into that downward spiral of trying everything under the sun to get her to return my interest, including flowers.

    Maybe this is still some of the lingering beta inside coming out, but I really believe that not only did I go about things the worst possible way, I lost an opportunity in the process. While it’s a waste of time and self-respect to pursue like a puppy where the girl isn’t interested, you can actually even turn off a girl that would have otherwise been interested in you by acting like such a loser. In my case, the off-the-cuff guy that got the first date was not the same guy that called and emailed multiple times for a second date. Perhaps she just wasn’t interested, but if she was, my beta behavior eliminated that interest quick.

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  27. @samseau, context is everything. You had a good flow going with her and I wouldn’t really even consider that two offers on your part. She was giving clear IOIs and you were just working out the date and time. I don’t think your success is inconsistent with the general rule.

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  28. Damn. I was afraid of this.

    Now I know.

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  29. on July 2, 2010 at 5:03 pm Vincent Ignatius

    I think a corollary would also be it’s also rejection if she totally refuses to commit to a date/time to meet next. I asked her to see this movie we both wanted to see, and she would always say “Sure, that sounds good”, but would never ever commit to any specific time to meet.

    Did you try to push the commitment out of her? Here’s what I say if a girl gives me any maybe crap.

    “You need to let me know now if you’re coming otherwise I’ll end up making other plans.”

    This is usually true for me, but even if it isn’t you can still use it and let her think that your time is valuable. If she’s really into you and just trying to play stupid girl game, she’ll commit to a time, otherwise you know she’s just looking to waste your time to validate herself. Delete her number.

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  30. Did a girl just dump you, R.? If so, you need to tighten up your game. But then again I suppose even the great ones have a bad game every now and then.

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  31. When you titled this piece “Canceling Dates” I thought you were referring to the Hitch.

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  32. Roissy,
    I am from Beirut, Lebanon, Middle East. This time of the year, we are having a good amount of American (female) tourists especially in the area where I live (where many hotels and bars are found).

    Can you give basic guidelines in order to score with these? What type of game? How to pass the limits of time frame? How to pass the limits of height difference (indeed most of them are taller than me)?

    I noticed by the way that many of them are really fat despite their very young age. These really are not worth it, compared to the local Lebanese chicks.

    Nestorius

    [editor: you want advice to pick up fat american chicks? hit ’em with the accent and slap your big levantine cock on the table! game over, maaaan, game over!]

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  33. Rickitarr,

    Is the name a reference to “Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy?”

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  34. on July 2, 2010 at 5:50 pm Shrimp Po Boy

    >>When you titled this piece “Canceling Dates” I thought you were referring to the Hitch.

    Haha. Actually got a chuckle out of me.

    But in all seriousness, I really hope the Hitch makes it through this illness.

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  35. I too wish the best for the Hitch. He says and writes what he believes and lives life to the full. You don’t have to agree with everything he says but can still admire him for these qualities.

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  36. News we can use!

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  37. Cap’n Bob,

    Yes.

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  38. on July 2, 2010 at 6:48 pm blueyedevil

    No. If they cancel the date I say, “Fuck you, I’m coming over to burn down the house…but you will blow me first!”

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  39. Woman I screw now and then canceled date with a new guy she just met. She lied to him about the reason and did not offer a time when she could meet him. Overall a very bad sign.

    Yet from talking to her, I know she went to bed thinking about the guy, and making out with him. She’s attracted to him.

    So why’d she cancel?

    She canceled because her sugar daddy (steady boyfriend with his head up his ass about what a slut she is) just paid for an emergency expense. She felt that taking the money and running off to meet the new guy was just too much.

    Nevertheless, it is clear to me that with a little plowing, the new guy could get what he wants. He just needs to catch the slut at the right time.

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  40. To Wala

    “I think you read it the way it felt and it worked.

    She left tha vague so you went for it. The “sounds great” was the offer to ask again.”

    And sidewinder

    “You had a good flow going with her and I wouldn’t really even consider that two offers on your part. She was giving clear IOIs and you were just working out the date and time. I don’t think your success is inconsistent with the general rule.”

    Just because she said “sounds great” does NOT mean she was sincere about it though, think about it… girls blow guys off with compliments all the time! They use compliments to lessen the impact of rejection and they feel less bad about it.

    Earl

    “To boil it down, I’d just avoid ever giving more than a single offer in any given conversation thread.”

    That’s a decent rule, but again, I broke it here with no repercussions.

    Lion

    “Moral of the story – Never give a girl a chance to reject you twice.”

    On the contrary: If I like a girl, I will allow her to reject me twice. Getting rejected feels the same as when I check my emails, so its not a big deal.

    Whatever –

    I just feel that sometimes people take these rules a little too seriously, when they should in fact only treat them as FLAGS (aka Doc Love style): a warning sign. They aren’t categorical.

    Cap N’Bob

    “That’s good going. Make sure she buys the drinks and keep an eye on her time-keeping the next time.

    There are limits to game though: Don’t think it works with women who are more than 3 points ahead of you on the ten point scale. (I’m not going to be shtupping Ann Hathaway anytime soon).”

    Yeah, she actually apologized and bought all the drinks for the night (1st 2nd 3rd rounds: irish girls can drink man).

    And yeah, from my experience game can only get you a girl 2 points higher than you. And 2 points higher requires perfect game. My point about there being no limits to game was meant to say you can break most “rules” and still do okay as long as you adhere to the core principles of game.

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  41. Hm, …

    If I accepted rejection like this, I’d never have had many of the women I did.

    If she bolts, withdraw a bit and try to reconquer later.

    Two steps back, … then a cautious step forward.

    But Roissy is right, if she flakes like that, without offering, she’s done.

    But many women *never* offer to schedule a date until you do, and that goes for re-schedules. You might lose out.

    You have to call it. Use instincts.

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  42. Genius. I just used the snowman text on a gal who cancelled on me the other night. She responded within 2 minutes.

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  43. on July 2, 2010 at 10:01 pm paultheking

    So true.. great post!

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  44. on July 2, 2010 at 10:23 pm Johnathan Blaze

    What do you think about this response:

    Her: I can’t make it tonight.

    You: That’s no problem, don’t sweat it. Why don’t you tell me a day this week that sounds good to you?

    If she responds with another day, then there you go. Will she flake again? Quite possibly. If she responds with something non-committal, then you know it’s a wash.

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  45. @Jonathan Blaze

    “”What do you think about this response:

    Her: I can’t make it tonight.

    You: That’s no problem, don’t sweat it. Why don’t you tell me a day this week that sounds good to you?
    “”

    Super Beta. “That’s not problem”—you’re validating her flake.

    “Why don’t you tell me” don’t ask her, tell her

    “”Sounds good to you?” who cares what sounds good to her, did she ask you when she flaked?

    There’s a great post in here “Test of your game” on what to do when a girl flakes…there’s a couple.

    The response prescribed was to not respond.

    Then wait until the date time and reply: “Hey, good luck.”

    Your response is how I would have responded before understanding game. Don’t be such a nice guy.

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  46. Reading through this makes me realize how Beta I was…

    That whole “No problem another time” line…was embedded in my Text Templates…

    My Inner Game was something like this:

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  47. Her: Sorry I didn’t make your mix c.d. blah blah blah excuse, bullshit, blah blah blah.

    Me: No prob Flakey McFlakester

    Beta?

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  48. Roissy is right on this one.

    Consider this , at least she has the decency to text and cancel.
    There are Cunts …ooops I mean Women out there that won’t even bother doing that.

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  49. @werewolf.

    The “no prob” is the beta thing. I worked hard to break that bad habit. It took real conscious effort. “Sure”…is another one that I had to stop using.

    “Oh…” would be better….than “no prob”

    or just the “Flakey McFlakester”….with no explanation.

    Check out the post on this whole topic where the suggested response by R was “hey, good luck”

    There’s a list there in that post, I think it’s “A test of your game” and it looks at the situation where girl flakes with some lame excuse.

    Anything that would confuse her or provoke her would be gaming.

    Anything that gives her a free pass is beta. That’s the goal.

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  50. @ walawala

    Thanks,

    I figured the “no prob” portion was the beta bit… Lesson learned, but nonetheless frustrating.

    I’ve used the dark lord’s flake tips in the past, resulting in much cervix cracking …..just hate to slip back into beta…

    Cockas!

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  51. @werewolf…

    At first I didn’t understand why “no problem” and “Sure” and “OK” were beta or even a problem.

    Then after reading and analyzing the psychology of it, the explanation became clear.

    It goes something like this and please correct me if I’ve missed something:

    “No problem” et al while seemingly innocent and laid-back and not caring, are actually communicating a mixed message when coupled with the “Flakey McFlakester” or whatever follows.

    All she will notice is the validation that her being a flake or disrespectful was ok.

    Whether it’s obvious or whether it’s subconscious, it will leave an impression on her that she can walk over you.

    There should be better ways of communicating you don’t care.

    Recently, I started copying what some girls have sent me if I change plans: “Oh….” it doesn’t mean anything, but vague enough. I’m still testing this one but it seems to be enough to provoke a lot more rationalization so I think it works.

    The “Hey, good luck” was explained here, you can read about it.

    “Hey…. followed by anything”–I’m using that more and it communicates both interest and disinterest.

    “Hey, let’s meet for the game/drinks”….if she comes or not, it doesn’t matter, but the approach is more direct.

    The guys pointed out to me even saying “It would be nice if you…” was beta, even though when I said it, I was being sarcastic.

    I think again it’s a mixed message so she will only hear “it’s nice” and think….beta.

    Gaming requires a lot of practice and I’m only now getting bolder in my approaches and not playing it so safe.

    The upside is I’m building up my value.

    The downside, I get blown off or rejected.

    But if I don’t feel any emotional investment, then there’s no feeling of loss.

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  52. i dont agree with everything roissy writes but at his best he is very brilliant and hilarious.

    that said, there is a lot of doublethink here. Game works by definition but the big question is how much a natural beta can really change themselves armed with Game.

    i place my bets on the side of: very fucking little. perhaps betas rehabilitate themselves at the same levels as alcoholics, which would be about 1 percent.

    it’s a winner’s take world and alpha’s have most to gain from Game theory. the betas will fuck it up as usual.

    but the Game INDUSTRY. by which i mean phony ass cockwads like Mark Bachman… they are worse than femcunts. they r femcunts n mere cunt disguise.

    roissy, who tries his best to speak truth and often succeeds, has little in common with these conmen. i just wish he’d try to distance himself a little more.

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  53. on July 3, 2010 at 2:50 am Johnathan Blaze

    Let me explain myself with the “no problem” thing. I know it initially sounds beta, but the purpose is to act like you completely don’t give a shit that she’s cancelling on you.

    Instead of saying “Oh no, you have to cancel!” you act completely unfazed, and then throw the ball in her court to ask YOU when YOU are free.

    Maybe something more like:

    Her: I have to cancel for tonight.
    You: Ok. Shit happens I guess. Why don’t you tell me a day this week which works for you?

    Just in case her reason for cancelling is legit, this gives her a chance to make good. And like I said, if you she doesn’t give a definite answer, you know for certain she’s useless.

    It might have some beta undertones, but I think you’re more likely to get a confirmed date this way, and once you actually meet face to face you can alpha up.

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  54. Bottom line is, if she cancels she must be punished and she must know that she is being punished, But not too much.

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  55. @walawala

    “No problem” et al while seemingly innocent and laid-back and not caring, are actually communicating a mixed message when coupled with the “Flakey McFlakester” or whatever follows.

    You’ve nailed it with the above quote. I tried to play it cool but my alpha/beta duality cockblocked. Definite sub-communication that she was my own personal Jesus and could walk on me like water.

    I allowed weak game to leak out with this one. I let this one mean too much to me, in that, I was on a hot streak and this girl was my top catch. The kino was tight, compliance was solid and hell, I even plowed through the boyfriend bomb with breezy ease. I wanted it too much…

    If I see her again, and the c.d. topic comes up again(and it won’t be because of me) any ideas on how to deal with it? I was thinking maybe

    Her: Sorry, blah blah blah

    Me: It wasn’t going to be a Warrant/Journey mix c.d. was it?

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  56. Lo Lee Ta

    She was at least 3 years younger than most of her classmates. That is what can happen if those standardized tests are used for admissions and an outlier comes along. And it probably helped her that she looked a lot like Lindsay Lohan in her prime.
    What she wore to class was a bikini under a faded blue work shirt; with her straw blonde hair hanging nearly to her ass.
    We met at a party. Chemistry happened… but we were both in our own way traditionalists. So we waited a long time to actually fuck. I mean, most of the guests had gone home.

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  57. @Roissy,
    actually, I don’t want to do the fat ones.
    but the accent game is not a bad idea.

    by the way, last year, a guy I know who works at a certain university was able to do it with three bisexual chicks at one time. those chicks were at this university for a summer program. he was able to built attraction with them over one month, then before they left, they went with him on a trip to the mountain and on the way he told them he never tried three girls at a time. they went to his house in the mountains and they did it for two days. he took pictures. this guy is a real gamer, when he was in college he did his masters thesis in psychology on how to attract women. naturally, the university refused his thesis. I’m not sure but it seems that he’s the only guy in the world who did a masters thesis on game. he still has the thesis, one day I will translate it to English and publish it on.

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  58. This is a tough call- girls read the “maybe hes just not that into you” crap these days and expect to be pursued all out even if they ARE interested in you. Though alcohol usually changes the equation.

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  59. Rum said: “She was at least 3 years younger than most of her classmates. That is what can happen if those standardized tests are used for admissions and an outlier comes along. … We met at a party. Chemistry happened… but we were both in our own way traditionalists. So we waited a long time to actually fuck. I mean, most of the guests had gone home.”

    Outlier babes! 🙂

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  60. Chaz asks a good question, “what about non-specific “we should hang out next weekend” responses?”

    If I said that to a guy, it means that I’ve decided we’d be better as platonic friends. The date was cancelled because it was a date, and I want to change the frame.

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  61. on July 3, 2010 at 11:03 am fuck you nicole

    Hey nicole,

    you stupid fat fuck. this isn’t the mcdonalds drive thru. run along you stupid motherfucker. nobody gives a fuck what you have to say. get on a treadmill, turn it up until it is on the highest setting, and handcuff yourself to the treadmill. Don’t get off until you approach the weight of a human and not an elephant. thank you from everyone.

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  62. FYN-tom-nick-jingleheimer-whatever, now I know you’re a girl.

    Really fucked up to be jealous of a fat, old, Black woman. It’s a very ugly trait. Maybe you’re mad at me for talking about bitch tells like the butt face that you’re already developing.

    Botox will help that. Granted, it’ll make you look more like the heartless narcissist you are, but hey, you can’t have everything. There are plenty of suckers who’ll still shag you.

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  63. Roissy, what exactly is the rule when the girl sets up a “date” but then cancels?

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  64. BTW, I don’t use gaussian blur or posterize filters on my photos. Don’t need them.

    Like


  65. on July 3, 2010 at 12:17 pm nicole is a cunt

    nicole: you and your saggy fucking boobs are dragging on the floor you stupid cunt. perhaps if you didn’t weigh as much as a 747 jet you would look like a human. your opinion doesn’t count for shit. shut the fuck up and go on a starvation diet asap. all you do is clog up the comments like you stupid bitch. fuck off and don’t come back.

    nobody has asked yet how to fuck a fat fuck ugly ass grandma with tits dragging on the ground yet. when they do, feel free to post. until then, shut the fuck up and lift up your tits so you don’t trip over them when you walk skank.

    Like


  66. on July 3, 2010 at 1:14 pm Sexy Pterodactyl

    Sexy Pterodactyl here, long-time reader and full-time alpha male – thank you for revealing to us the Perfidious Slut Matrix. Also, shout out to Great Books for Men (GBFM), love his work.

    When a girl cancels a date, the proper response is to up one’s social dominance. Show her you don’t care, and that you are not one to be trifled with – those hamster-headed hypergamy machines will thrill at your aloof masculinity.

    Remember to use this handy phrase:
    “Submit to pterodactyl!”

    Let me be your wingman, together we will swoop,

    Manly-but-appropriate hugs,
    Sexy Pterodactyl

    Like


  67. AHE–

    that said, there is a lot of doublethink here. Game works by definition but the big question is how much a natural beta can really change themselves armed with Game.

    i place my bets on the side of: very fucking little. perhaps betas rehabilitate themselves at the same levels as alcoholics, which would be about 1 percent.

    I think the reality is it depends a lot on why the beta or higher beta is that rather than a lesser alpha etc.

    If the guy has good social skills with guys and girls too in a non pickup context, and is something or a lot of a leader, but is really hurt by acting good guy, non threatening, sucking up to girls he’s interested in, etc. THEN I think reading and absorbing lots of Roissy and game teachings /insights can make a lot of difference yes.

    A lot of higher betas are this type. I think this kind of higher beta can often make it to at least lesser alpha, and if he really absorbs the insights and changes his inner game, and in time gets a snowball effect going, can get to alpha.

    Betas often to higher betas, possibly lesser alpha. Middle betas often aren’t so ambitious, and tend to be go w/the crowd types. That or real geeky, but not w/out any social skills. The real geeky some social skills types probably have the best shot at self change through game, as opposed to the crowd following not much ambition types.

    My 2 cents.

    Like


  68. on July 3, 2010 at 1:59 pm ahappinessexperiment

    Doug 1 –

    I agree with what you say more or less.

    My point, however, was not really aimed at Roissy but at Mark Bachman, who is either David Deangelo or a shill for him. He is a complete phony spreading pretty lies for men.

    Like


  69. Chancrous whore, why not just post under your normal handle?

    Like


  70. There are several levels of dating. Let’s review.

    1. The man asks the woman out and both expect he will pay.
    2. The man asks the woman out and she is expected to pay.
    3. The man asks the woman to come to his house.

    There are other kinds of course for where the woman initiates but these will do for now.

    The issue proposed is what to do when a woman who had accepted a Type #1 invitation backs out. One simple answer is to only propose Type #2 or Type #3 dates thereafter.

    After my second divorce I asked a lot of women out. I spent a lot of money. Then I started asking out women if they would pay for dinner and/or a movie. Many refused but more than enough accepted. Flush with that success I started just telling them to show up on my doorstep. Again there are some who won’t but more than enough who will.

    With this cut-to-the-chase approach I had fewer at bats but a much better batting average.

    How’s that for a mixed metaphore?

    Like


  71. on July 3, 2010 at 9:46 pm Thin-Skinned Novice Beta-Wanka

    Hi Roissy and Renegades,

    Great site. Interesting community. Respect.

    My first post here after lurking for a little more than a week.

    Regarding Samseau’s case of the rescheduled date:

    I wouldn’t interpret that as a rescheduling at all. No date with an agreed time was ever scheduled. at 215pm Samseau suggested a date. at 6pm she says that date doesn’t work for her. At 9pm she makes a good faith counter offer. What’s the problem there? Maybe I’m too lenient, but I think you guys maybe aren’t patient enough. Maybe between 6 and 9 there were issues at work or getting home or whatever and she didn’t have a chance to check the schedule. Maybe she wasn’t sure if she would be available Wednesday (who knows big project with work or other crap) and had to straighten schedule to make sure that she would have time to meet Samseau?

    My first natural impulse would probably have been to resort to my typically lame beta supplicant style and would have responded something like…

    “Oh that’s too bad. No problem. Still would really like to meet. We could reschedule if you’d like…”

    Then after reading your remarks here I consider alternative responses.

    What do you think about some of these? Are these still too weak beta?

    To start I’d keep it brief and focus on value that the target is missing out.
    “Oh that’s too bad. We would have had a really nice time.”

    If she’s canceling, most likely she should offer a good reason, whether true or not. If she is evasive, provides a totally lame excuse or none at all, she’s flakin’ for sure and most likely her interest in the game player isn’t high enough to get her off dead center.

    However things do come up. If she is a worthwhile lady, most likely she is busy and has responsibilities. If she seems promising why not allow that possibility? This of course depends on the judgement of the game player to determine her motives if she is sincere. By expressing empathy for her problem the game player can elicit more info to evaluate the targets mindset. Patience might be rewarded, but I undertand by canceling or postponing she is asserting power that can be a kind of a challenge for her to discover what character the gentleman has. There must be some way for the fellow to assert power firmly but politely in order to keep the dynamic balanced early on and keep the game alive to the next round.

    I would continue with something by expressing empathy and waiting to listen how she responds.

    “Hope the vet fixes your sick cat” “Hope the plumber plugs the shit storm exploding from your toilet.” “Hope you don’t get stuck in too much traffic getting sister at the airport.” “Hope the late night finishing project at work pays off. etc…”

    After graciously wishing her well with whatever her problem is, I would not actively pursue the conversation. If she is cancelling, she has your number. If she wants to continue the game, she can initiate the next round. Unless I really think she might be special. In that case I would pursue…. (Sometimes ya gotta break the rules to get what you want.)

    Many are puzzling or speculating if she offers an alternative date. Maybe the fellow can draw this out of her with something that at the same time asserts the man’s power while keeping interest and pursuit alive? I’m certain you veteran game experts can come up with something. The best I can think of would be something like this…

    “Since I planned something nice this time, if you want you can make it up next time…”

    Otherwise keep it brief, seem busy, wish her luck / sympathy / etc. with whatever problem
    made her cancel. And move on.

    Like


  72. If you think she’s gonna flake on your date, cancel it before she does. You maintain your high status. Leave a voicemail message, since she probably won’t answer your call. Say “something came up, i have to bail out on our date today”. This way, you are not the sucker waiting for your date to arrive, she’ll think you cancelled.

    Like


  73. What about when she cancels a dinner date (second date) but then offers to go on a brunch date? How should one respond?

    Like


  74. on July 4, 2010 at 1:56 am Original JB

    “Game works by definition but the big question is how much a natural beta can really change themselves armed with Game.”

    The key question is whether the guy is motivated to change.

    If he is, quite a lot.

    “Change” is simply the end state of a period of consistent practice of proper technique of whatever skill you want to learn. If motivation persists, change can be significant.

    Like


  75. @Thin-skinned

    I’m learning game too. I’m fixing my approaches and the results are interesting. I’ve been flaked on and used that same language below and it’s resulted in ….more flaking. Now I’ve learned:

    “”To start I’d keep it brief and focus on value that the target is missing out.
    “Oh that’s too bad. We would have had a really nice time.”

    “That’s too bad…” you’re letting it get to you, suggesting it mattered.

    “We would have had a really NICE time.”—if she thought that, she wouldn’t have flaked.

    “NICE”….I use this sarcastically but in the context you use it, sounds beta….like you’re wishing for something that might have happened to happen.

    It’s supplicating. Trying to be nice while also trying to play some lame future projection game.

    The best post in here is R’s “hey, good luck”.

    I’ve used this….wow, what a difference it makes. In the case of entitled little shit, she responded so defensively realizing she’d been called on her crap…without actually being called on her crap.

    The “good luck” part….strikes a nerve. That’s the sense of loss you’re trying to instill. Not “would have been a good time blah blah blah”.

    Or just drop some non-sequitor that doesn’t make sense.

    I’m now thinking more and more that not saying anything is the best response unless you can keep it short and strike into the heart of whatever bizaro fear or motivation made her flake.

    I’m still a novice, finding my way. But avoiding these beta responses is a good start.

    Don’t always feel a need to respond and if you do, make it mean something.

    Like


  76. @werewolf…

    “”If I see her again, and the c.d. topic comes up again(and it won’t be because of me) any ideas on how to deal with it? I was thinking maybe

    Her: Sorry, blah blah blah

    Me: It wasn’t going to be a Warrant/Journey mix c.d. was it?””

    I think the best way to handle this is not to acknowedge the flake with her just note it for future reference and don’t get too invested.

    This post and the other one on flaking make it clear that if SHE cancels and doesn’t reschedule, leave it.

    Increasingly, I’m noting how chicks handle these things. If I cancel, or flake, they never question me: “What kind of asshole cancels a date??” They move on and don’t get so invested in you.

    R has said a few times on this blog, think like a chick.

    It’s good advice. They only go mental after yo’ve gone out with them and dump them, but in the early stagese, whatever they may think, they rarely call you out on your asshole behaviour…they prefer to save it up….Some way of adapting that as your own would be the way to play it I think.

    Like


  77. […] “Suck it up”, The Self-Delusion Cloak Of Invincibility, Science Continues Proving Me Right, Canceling Dates, Dealing With […]

    Like


  78. @ walawala,

    Thanks for your insight.

    Like


  79. As probably the only guy here who has had 27 dates in 60 days, I will comment as an Expert.

    Full disclosure; these were all via match/internet dating; nevertheless 27 showed up (90% were under 27; I am 42), out of 30 scheduled dates.

    Out of the 27 ( of 30 Dates):

    -4 cancelled initially

    -1 rebooked 48 hrs later; made out; she was a 9.
    -1 cancelled 25 mins before; I deleted her #
    -1 forgot to respond at all; next day offered lame excuse; delete #
    -1 cancelled with 4 hrs notice; not hot enough to re-book; delete #
    -1 cancelled; said i not do “confirm/follow-up” prior 24hrs. phone bitch slapped her & delete.

    As R. Don Steele says: “When a Woman fails to uphold her part of an agreement, I have found nothing works”

    there are 3 Issues:

    Hottness, Age, and Respect

    >If she is is a 8.5-10; you have to take the abuse; 9-10s get offers 24/7; your offer is like an ebay bid.

    >if She is under 22 you have to take the abuse; under 22 pussy is PRIME & tight, it gets offers 24/7, some of them violent.

    >If You accept any cancellations, besides above 2, you have lost respect, and can never regain it; and will diminish in her eyes, and do damage to your self esteem on future dates.

    Having said that YOU must make sure you have not sabotaged any dates with below:

    The Double re-Confirm Cancel
    ————————————–

    -the now widely used “Not confirming, re-firming up, and re-making final” follow up. Many young women r now using this as a back door out option to re-neg on a fully made date.

    Ex:

    Say you meet on a Tuesday; great date. On that date make a Date for Saturday night. Then Wed, Thur do nothing; and on Fri at noon txt: “Lets meet at X on Sat at 8pm”. In todays uber-updated world, young women consider this not following up; and may cancel.

    On early Thur, she is thinking: “Wow, I left my Sat nite with that Guy open and have not heard from him”; by Friday AM she is near frantic and openly hearing of other potential plans from gals; and thinking of sending a txt out to back up guys.

    Now if she is into you; she will hold out and reply on Friday to your “late” txt. In the old days if you had a date, it was set; girls would check their red blinking lite on their tape-message machine, and if no cancel message, came in they were good. NOT NOW

    I had a date with a 8.5 plaitnum blonde go this way; she kept the date, reponded to txts hours later; but, mentioned it later. We made out next date and are dating.

    I had a date last night with a 33 yo Latina with fake DDs, who txted me 7pm Thur saying lets date; I said fine 9pm Sat. Then on Sat she ignored my txts, emails, call, and said I did not re-confirm on Friday; and cancelled @ 8:59. She called at 11pm; I shut her down.

    Fatal Txt or Lame Call
    —————————

    ex:

    -lets say you have a date set for 3-5 days later; but feel like calling to chat; you have a lame call with bad vibes from YOU…she will reconsider/may cancel

    -You send out a joke or neg, that gets taken wrong way.

    Solution: once you have a date, dont call to ramble, or over-txt. Keep it to facts/logistics & get off.

    You cancel / she-Revenge
    —————————-

    I have been doing this often. With Match you have to rank order hottness. I send out cut/pastes: “Lets meet for drinks tonight” all week; enevitably their responses start to pile up on same day. I rank the hottest first, then push out others. Oddly, this is catnip to women, as they rebook quickly…nowing you r in demand.; but watch out…on that cancel date…they secretly know you cancelled them, and may pull a Rapo or blue ball to get even.

    Happened to me on Friday night with 28yo with a 7 face (literally it looked like Marth Wasgington or some 1880s woman) wiht a porn star body. She showed up in stilletto, big tits, skin tight jeans ( yes, via Match); I kept it to 1 drink. But , vibes were amazing; went to place across st. from me; 1 more round, some sex talk; then casually mentioned my place to which she eagerly responded to come up. Cracked a half bottle of Perrier Jouet ($14), made out, suckked her C cups; grabbed her ass, fingered her a bit; then tried clit…to which she blew up and stood up and said enough and walked to my lobby.

    Said I was a jerk, player, and that I was not treating her right. On curb, I cooly stated that she wanted to have her cake and eat it too. She eagerly came to my place; dry humped me; and allowed me to finger her pussy ( yes, I said pussy); then when I toughed her clit all was lost.

    I stated she was a participant; and need to take responsibility as well. She was somewhat awed at this display of cool logic, and walked back to my door to be let up. We mad eout for another hour, cuddled, sucked tits, grabbed as, no more pussy. Yes i was blue balled.

    Next day, I was a bit pissed; and felt like she was a rapo player. Now relegating her to PBR drinks under $20 budget and booty call group txt list.

    Conclussion: this is a slut who was ready to fuck on original date; but, built resentment over my cancel and wanted payback.

    In General, I agree with Roissy that ALL cancels are generally worthless. But, want to delienate from the ones WE accidently fuck up.

    Like


  80. I use a “Three Strikes and You Are Out” strategy.
    Ask a girl out and she says “No” That is strike one.

    Have an arranged date and she bails. That is strike two.

    Ask her out again and she says “No.” Strike three.

    I never call again and if she calls to ask me out, I refuse. However, before strike three, if she makes any good faith offer to go out with me, I give her the chance and go out with her.

    You can make your own rules as to what constitutes a “strike”. But this strategy works well for me because sometimes there is a good reason for a girl to bail or not go out with you.

    Like


  81. on July 4, 2010 at 11:10 pm silver fox is an idiot

    silverfox: you are so full of shit it is hilarious. your delusional thinking makes everyone laugh.

    Like


  82. @Silver Fox

    “”Fatal Txt or Lame Call
    —————————

    ex:

    -lets say you have a date set for 3-5 days later; but feel like calling to chat; you have a lame call with bad vibes from YOU…she will reconsider/may cancel

    -You send out a joke or neg, that gets taken wrong way.

    Solution: once you have a date, dont call to ramble, or over-txt. Keep it to facts/logistics & get off.””

    There should be an entire post examining this.

    I’ve stopped making this mistake. Once you arrange, don’t call to clown around and muck it up.

    Like


  83. Actually @Silver Fox’s post was one of the few really interesting comments I’ve seen here in a long while. I may not fully agree with his assessment of what happened, but I do believe the events happened and that he’s doing better at age 42 than most of the younger guys here.

    It takes until age 40 for most American men to learn game, because everything conspires towards us not learning it.

    And he stuck his neck out with actual field reports that showed general success – a flaw in the Roissy blog culture is that too many guys are afraid to talk of actual field success for fear of being flamed. Most prefer to either complain about a failure (if young) or brag about their “expertise” without mentioning that they’ve haven’t actually gotten laid in 10 years.

    The 800 lb gorilla on the above issue is how often cancelations happen to perfectly good alphas in the USA as compared to elsewhere. They shouldn’t happen if a woman has “become friends” with a man over a 30 minute period and/or switched venues with him after they met, but the anti-male culture in the USA causes some to have “second thoughts” about even men they met, kissed and liked.

    Plus many American parents and friends will do everything they can to pull a woman away from a man she likes who is 10+ years older than she is. This is the primary reason I left the USA for greener pastures.

    Also, no mention has been made of how Social Class Differences have an affect on cancelations.

    In Europe, I take the occasional cancelation – almost always from someone in the hairdresser or cashier class) as meaning that my Romance Game is unappreciated (they do not see me as ever wanting to marry them) and more direct game may be necessary.

    Also, a woman might not think she’s getting any real value out of dinner at a restaurant or a walk in the park.

    They want to see a real exciting offer made.

    This evening I am taking a woman on a beach vacation who canceled on me when all I wanted to do was meet her at a restaurant. I believe she canceled on the initial date because she was afraid she was too young to impress me with her conversation skills.

    She acts now like we already had that first date and can move on to the beach vacation date that would have happened later. It is like the part where I might have judged her and found her wanting…has been passed.

    Silver Fox is correct that a 9 or 10 under 22 years of age can get away with a lot more than you will let someone else get away with.

    You won’t necessarily delete their number knowing your backup is a 30 year old 8.

    Before deleting the number of a 9 or 10:

    1) Change game to direct from “I want to get to know you”
    2) Offer a more exciting date (Yosemite, Hawaii, Hamptons, Scotland)

    Victory can be pulled from the jaws of defeat…if looks are important to you and that defines victory (it does to me).

    Like


  84. on July 5, 2010 at 4:31 am Gunslingergregi

    Silver fox in the zone cool.

    Like


  85. My experience backs up this post.

    What confused me is I had a great time with the girl when together and we seemed to be bonding, but it was like pulling teeth to get the next date with her. Just like this post describes. I chose to follow the good signs from our time together instead of the bad signs from trying hard to get together with her again, and worked for it, but she made it clear there was not going to be a relationship.

    Like


  86. silver fox speaks the truth I haave had very similar success on online dating. You need looks to pull it off but it works.

    Like


  87. I have said this before. It does not matter how hot or young the girl is, flaking is to be countered with a sharp neg on the next date; a second flake justifies punting the girl (taking her back if she begs); a third flake is the end. (A real excuse doesn’t count as a flake, but it has to have been something she could not have anticipated.) I don’t understand why Silver Fox makes exceptions for very hot and very young, they’re exactly the ones who need correction the most. Of course all this presumes you are able to sacrifice the opportunity, if you’re too needy to pull this off, trouble ahead.

    The more technical issue of what counts as confirming should not be difficult to handle — fairly soon after the first agreement, a short text or email to confirm place and time, and optionally, 24 hrs before the date an additional text saying something like “looking forward to seeing you this time tomorrow.

    Like


  88. Let’s remember that, for some of us at least, the scale of 1-10 is logarithmic and not linear.

    A 9 is someone you really, really want.

    A 10 is someone you crave, and 10 times better looking (more rare) than a 9.

    You would, by definition, throw away a 9 for a 10 if you had the guts and presence of mind not to worry about hurting the 9s feelings – most of us are too weak to do this however – we tend to stick with women who love us even as they fade to lackluster 7s. This is part of being human.

    10s tend to be 18 years old and will be 9s by the time they are 21.

    They probably won’t give many men a shot until after they lose their 10 status…in the USA they won’t give men a real shot until they’ve dropped to 8 status at around age 28.

    10s are rarely logical beings.

    It is easier to “punish” or neg a logical being.

    QED: in real life, one ends up giving more leeway to flaking 10s than flaking 7s…at least if you want to be one of those guys who ends up in bed with a 10 and/or 18 year old now and then.

    Like


  89. By “giving more leeway” that doesn’t mean one shouldn’t neg a beautiful young woman who flaked once. I negged the woman last night who had canceled out on a date but later agreed to go to a resort with me as an upgrade.

    She had to pull me away from looking at other women on the boardwalk. At one point she grabbed my hand and said “You’re with me buddy” (in her language).

    The problem was I wasn’t negging her on purpose. She is a solid 9 but I was craving the 10s I was getting into eye contact with but was unavailable to talk with.

    I will not mention the resort I am at because I love being the only American here. But all Roissy readers should make sure they vacation in pro-American, pro-male countries.

    Like


  90. one thing ive noticed:

    if they dont offer an alternative date, AND YOU CALL THEM ON THEIR BULLSHIT, they get mad really quick

    ive done this. not to be a persistent beta, but more to be an asshole who is on to their tricks.

    i am not afraid of rejection, but ill admit, id rather they told me, rather than avoiding the topic or not mentioning another time we can get together.

    i will tell them that – “if its over, TELL ME…I dont need this runaround shit.” and sure enuff, that is when they get pissed off. hey, turnabout is fair play.

    Like


  91. “on July 4, 2010 at 1:32 am CW
    If you think she’s gonna flake on your date, cancel it before she does. You maintain your high status. Leave a voicemail message, since she probably won’t answer your call. Say “something came up, i have to bail out on our date today”. This way, you are not the sucker waiting for your date to arrive, she’ll think you cancelled.”

    But how is that gonna help? You STILL ain’t going out on a date

    Like


  92. So true….i ask a girl out for a second date on a day i know she cant go (work, previous commitment, etc) and firce her into the counter offer. If she doesnt counter i delete her. Will keep your dignity intact & she may even contact you later to ask what happened. Then you call her out on it and have fun busting on her bs.

    Like


  93. Take arms, men!

    I’ve just found out that women have been using something called ‘Make-up’ to trick us into sleeping with them!

    It works by making women (especially ugly ones up to a certain point) look more attractive than they actually are.

    Other female tricks include wearing special bras to create the illusion of cleavage and heels to make their asses look better.

    Beware of these female cons!

    Like


  94. I found myself in this situation recently with a girl I was gaming.

    I suggested she come over and watch a DVD of a movie we both want to see.

    Me: [MOVIE TITLE]

    Her: Yah, let’s do it.

    Me: Monday:

    Her: I have a conference call

    Me: We’ll sort it out, all good

    Her: Yay….blah blah blah….

    Me: no reply after that.

    I’ve left this for her to suggest an alternative time.

    Properly handled?

    Like


  95. on August 17, 2010 at 4:12 am Gunslingergregi

    lol
    She said lets do it why didn’t you say being the movies.
    lol

    Like


  96. @Walawala

    It is OK to nail down Tuesday as a confirmed date on Sunday.

    Nail down a time to see that DVD and, when she comes over, be sure the place is really clean and well stocked with food and drinks (and smells of great food you’ve just cooked) and the most important thing of all: do NOT watch more than 10 minutes of that film.

    I keep making the same mistake but a man really has to move on the woman while she is on his bed. The biggest moments I’ve regretted were ones where a 9 or 10 was on my bed watching TV or a film…and I figured I’d show her I was a gentleman by not moving on her.

    You may never get another chance with her if you do that.

    Of course it is easier said than done to move on a woman who is presumably on your bed to watch a DVD.

    I would change my position so I’m not sitting. Try getting her to lie on the bed and suggest spooning as the optimal position (if you’ve ever held her hand before, this should be a reasonable request). Once in the spoon position, seduction is inevitable.

    Like


  97. Wow. I am a girl and reading these posts…wow. Just when I think maybe men don’t SUCK so much… “gaming”? what about being a decent guy??

    Like


  98. on September 29, 2010 at 7:53 pm Gunslingergregi

    lol where are all the woman who don’t demand child support and alimony?

    Like


  99. So I’ve been gaming this 9 (she’s 32 I’m 42) and I asked her to meet me at the gym. She said yes and sounded excited about it. The day before the ‘date’ was her birthday, so I sent her a happy birthday text [Editor: Big mistake.] only to have her flake on me saying that her brother was coming to town and “probably she wouldn’t be able to make it.” Well I so happened to be unemployed when I asked her to meet me at the gym, but on the day of her birthday I got hired and the job requires me to work 12 hour shifts for the next few days. I was not going to make it to the date, so I was going to use the happy birthday text thread to cancel. Lucky for me she cancelled first, which allows me to turn it around on her and show her that I was unfazed by her silly game; thus raising my value. Here’s how the thread went”

    Me: “Happy Birthday to you” (animated Gif)

    Her (6 minutes later): “THANK YOU! Probably wont go tomorrow my brother is coming over late.”

    Me (20 minutes later): “Awesome! That’s perfect timing! I got a call today and I’m hired. I start my training tomorrow. I’ll be working 12 hour shifts from 8am to 8 pm for the next few days. I was sweatin’ I was going to have to break it with you. ;)”

    Her (1 hour later, haha! had to think about it): “Congrats!”

    Me (10 minutes later): “Thanx! Enjoy the rest of your Bday.”

    Her (15 minutes later): “Thank you. :)”

    Now I’m not going to call her or text her untill she does. And if she never does, oh well, her loss. But when she contacts me, I’m going to be bustin on her being cocky and funny and I’m going to tell her that the little stunt she pulled is going to cost her big time. I’m not going to ask her out again. I’m going to wait for her to renegotiate, and If she never does, oh well. Next!

    Like