Tomboys Vs Girly-Girls

I once dated a girl who was a professed hardcore tomboy in her youth. She played team sports where she excelled and hurt opponents with her jabbing elbows of competitive zeal. She had very little fashion sense and needed the assistance of her girlier friends (men and women) when shopping, which is an activity she hated. She loved sex and had the libido of a man.

She was not a lesbian, nor did she have lesbianic tendencies, a presumption you would be forgiven for having since it is true that there is some correlation between tomboyishness and dykery.

It’s unremarkable to point out that it is in the nature of women to dress up. They make themselves shiny not only to attract the eye of a quality man but to compete with other women in their social milieu. It is an oft heard truism that when a couple walks into a room the women will check out the girl first before giving the guy a look. A woman lavishly dresses up in context-appropriate ways not just to impress other women but to frighten them into giving up and going home so that she may absorb all the male attention like the sole whore in a brothel in the middle of the desert. As women’s fashion is spiked armor adorned with the heads of female foes, make-up is war paint for chicks.

Tomboys don’t participate in this fashion arms race, and their refusal to conform to the gender norm means they do not get along with the girly-girls, for the most part. You will rarely see tomboys and tinseltarts enjoying each other’s company, unless it is in a mating venue where the tomboys opportunistically leech off of the male attention that girly-girls naturally soak up. You’ll sometimes hear a tomboy claim to have a princess for a best friend, when in reality she only hangs out with her on clubbing nights, or at the mall for shopping advice.

Tomboys can be charmingly naive in their forwardness with men, and their total lack of guile. But the dirty secret is that most men actually like it when a woman is a little bit coy with them. Coyness inspires pursuit.

Tomboys much prefer the company of men for friends. Men, in turn, like tomboys for their friendliness, approachability, common interests and ease of sexual access, but tomboys rarely arouse men as viscerally as do feminine girls. Soft, mealy men will often wind up the long-term partners of tomboys, as these types of women tend to fill that gaping emasculated void in soft men’s souls.

A tomboy wise to the ways of men may ask her girlier friends why they even bother dressing up? Men will size you up 90% of the way in a second with a quick glance at your face, hourglass figure, ass and breasts, they might say. (Well, they would say it in so many words after it is filtered through the female voicebox transmogrification module sapping the words of all their urgency and power.) Three months later he might notice you keep your hair up instead of down.

But that’s the tomboy’s problem in an eggshell. The accoutrements of girlishness — clothes, makeup, jewelry, mannerism — are as much for the detriment of other women as they are for the benefit of men.

Contrary to perceived wisdom, it is actually harder to break up with a tomboy than with a girly-girl. You may think tomboys, with their masculine airs, would be better equipped emotionally to put the thought of a lost lover behind them, but tomboys are as hopelessly romantic as straight men. They suffer badly when dumped. It’s the girly-girls who, untethered from flights of abstraction or notions of loyalty, recover quickly from being dumped.

That is, unless they have first fallen in love. Then all bets are off.





Comments


  1. Due to size, gait and voice, too many girls are “tomboys” by default these days.

    High-school sports and “endurance” exercise is destroying the bodies of girls and women. It begins earlier than ever.

    Even the fresh crew that comes into NYC every year is starting to look like a bunch of linebackers on stilts when they wear heels.

    It’s a shame.

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    • “High-school sports and “endurance” exercise is destroying the bodies of girls and women. It begins earlier than ever.”

      Federal statute mandates that schools MUST spend as much on sports for girls as it does for boys, therefore a college that has expensive boys’ programs (say, football) must spend an equal amount on girls programs.

      And there is only so much to be spent on traditional girly programs that emphasized grace and style in a subjective manner (cheerleading, gymnastics, figure skating, etc) so there is more onus to create fiercely competitive women’s sports programs.

      Thus, the system favors the cultivation of tomboys.

      Some tomboys soften and become more feminine and grow to love it; some remain tomboys yet desire men; and some become lesbians outright.

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    • I fail to see how sports like soccer, volleyball, softball, track, etc. are “destroying” the body of young girls. If anything, it’s keeping them healthy and toned and not overly muscled (i.e., males).

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      • When you fail to think, you fail to see.

        Google epidemic of young girls sports injuries.

        Think: tendons, bones, ligaments.

        This is thinking you shd do for yourself.–

        Yes — these sports are destroying the bodies of young girls.

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  2. “Due to size, gait and voice, too many girls are “tomboys” by default these days.

    High-school sports and “endurance” exercise is destroying the bodies of girls and women. It begins earlier than ever.

    Even the fresh crew that comes into NYC every year is starting to look like a bunch of linebackers on stilts when they wear heels.

    It’s a shame.”

    If there really are more tomboys, its probably due more to natural selection than feminist teachings. Remember, the Baby-Boomers were the first generation of women who were given the permission, and financial support, to recklessly have children with alphas. All those alphas ended up siring masculinized girls.

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    • That is exactly what happens. Girls do take on some traits of their fathers.

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    • I call it “Large Father Syndrome” and it’s dreadful.

      Let’s hope for a regression to the mean, and yesterday.

      Enough of these hulking brutes with bass voices.–

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  3. is it hard to transform a tomboy friend to a bang? or even a to a gf? i would be much obliged to advice on how to do so.

    big ups as usual chateau

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  4. I played a varsity sport and high school and was really good at it. I’m also very feminine in my appearance, voice, and mannerisms–people repeatedly describe me as “dainty,” “delicate,” and “graceful.” I often get asked if I’m a dancer. Game only works on certain women because it’s so reductive.

    [Heartiste: Does repeating this lie help you sleep at night? Sorry to burst your hymen, but game works on all women, including yourself, whether you are aware of it or not.
    ps all human behavior can be reduced to its component parts, with more or less difficulty.]

    Of course, there are girly girls who are annoyingly princess-y, and there are tomboys sadly out of touch with their femininity and the power its realization brings.

    As for the person criticizing high school sports, thank you for supplying yet another example of the many contradictions of the Chateau. Every 3rd post and comment here seems to contain some mention of how fat and ugly modern women are, and yet women who play a sport and stay in shape are ugly too! Too funny.

    [Like your stupendous dumbassery. Hint: there’s more than one way to stay toned, and in fact many of those ways don’t involve any male-oriented competition or team sports. It’s no coincidence some of the most feminine girls flock to yoga.]

    It’s the type of logic that could only occur in a conclave of old, bitter, entitled men.

    [Got turned down again, didja?]

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    • “I played a varsity sport and high school and was really good at it. I’m also very feminine in my appearance, voice, and mannerisms–people repeatedly describe me as “dainty,” “delicate,” and “graceful.” I often get asked if I’m a dancer.”

      [Translation]: I’m offended by the post (because it is eerily representative of my life) and need to qualify myself so I can feel better.

      “Game only works on certain women because it’s so reductive.”

      [Translation]: I think that game doesn’t work on me because (I think) I’M SMART! And to prove it I am going to use the word ‘reductive’.

      “…and there are tomboys sadly out of touch with their femininity and the power its realization brings.”

      [Translation]: I am sadly out of touch with my femininity but I think I’m not anymore and now I think I’m powerful and stuff.

      “…some mention of how fat and ugly modern women are, and yet women who play a sport and stay in shape are ugly too! Too funny.”

      [Translation]: Because of my reductive (heh) capacity to reason I’m again upset about the post because I’m a manjawed ex-athlete but I’m feminine too. You guys are mean :(.”

      “It’s the type of logic that could only occur in a conclave of old, bitter, entitled men.”

      [Translation]: I’m projecting my anger caused by the familiarity this post brings me.

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      • In a relationship, played volleyball, undergrad at an Ivy League school.

        I also do yoga, but please, continue constructing whatever little fantasy helps you sleep better at night.

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      • Some sports are more likely to have feminine girls and some are more likely to have more masculine girls. Volleyball is a “hot girl” sport and girls in it tend to be fairly feminine. With great asses. Field hockey, track, and tennis also tend to have fairly feminine girls, i.e. normal girls.

        How tall are you?

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      • on January 3, 2012 at 2:15 am doesn't matter

        And perhaps you are bound for marriage, and then medical school… followed by a divorce in your late twenties, and then a year of getting fucked and chucked by a guy like me, leaving 30 and out in the cold.

        I am uniquely positioned to have executed the preceding script several times over in the past couple of years. Ivy League girls are pretend men, almost without exception. And I doubt that exception would be found in the comments section of a game blog.

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    • Don’t pick on the girl too much, nihilistic psuedo-intellectual babble like reductive is oddly amusing to me, especially coming from a feminist. It’s an odd delicacy, like licorice. It’s cute that colleges give out pretend degrees for crap like that. oh the money spent on tuition is quite real. That reminds me, isn’t the point of college for the ladies to get your M-R-S degree, not to blow $150K with a worthless BA (not to mention my earlier point about monetizing your youth by being a co-ed GGW)?

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    • I played a varsity sport and high school and was really good at it

      wait, lemme guess…….

      softball.

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  5. Esteemed host, this might pique your interest:

    http://www.mysuburbanlife.com/westchicago/features/x1466796089/Survey-Barely-half-of-adults-married-trend-plays-out-in-suburbs

    TL;DR: Pew research study shows 51% of adults are married in 2010, as opposed to 72% in 1960.

    Oh, how the fragile female psyche weeps as her prospects for marriage dwindle, but lo, daddy State will be there to pick up the check [on the backs of hapless beta wage slaves.]

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  6. Nothing wrong with a girl that works out hard and has some muscles to go along with a nice rack.

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    • Hear hear. Feminine but in shape are the best.

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    • I like athletic girls..watch women’s running events at the olympics and all the ones from eastern eu look absolutely stunning with the nicest bodies on the planet (dat ass and legs).

      Watching women’s swimming on the other hand is revolting. Broad shoulders on a girl is a massive turn off. Hence why I use the “You look like a swimmer..I think it’s the broad shoulders that give it away” line to really slender girls/bitches as a pisstake.

      All in all I don’t mind tom-boys but there aren’t that many around who are cute with a good fashion sense.

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  7. My sister is a Tom boy. She prefers to date gangster types, break dancers, tattooed bad boy types.

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  8. since it is true that there is some correlation between tomboyishness and dykery.

    Have to disagree. Dykes are just like gay guys. They have NO clue what they are doing, therefore they go so far to the extreme that it becomes a parody.
    From their style of dress, boots, forward leaning-stomp-walk-shuffle-gait to their butch haircut.

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    • on December 14, 2011 at 9:17 pm the_alpha_male

      Yeah, its all an act.

      Most f-m transsexuals that i’ve heard via radio or seen on YouTube who discuss what its like to be on T indicate their former bravado and machismo is all an act.

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  9. Stairmaster hags; emaciate marathoners; hatchet-faced triathletes: pay heed.

    All that reduces you to a stringy-haired and coldly sweating corpse is bad.

    We do not want you lean and mean. Life itself is sufficiently lean and mean.

    We want you slimly soft and luscious. So do your doggystyling yoga; fuck until core meltdown; vacuum and scrub in fetching and naughty char-fashions; and cultivate aphrodisiac herbs in the garden.

    When I peel down those skintight yoga pants I want the peach — not the pit.–

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  10. ugh, I screen Tomboys out now. Everyone is all “she has to look like a gorgeous daffodil on a lazy Sunday when she’s got no makeup on and is wearing her baggy flannel pyjamas”. I say fuck that. Unless she’s a serious LTR our main reason for hanging out is to fuck eachother’s brains out. If she turns up at my door wearing sweatpants and sneakers, I turn her around and tell her to go home and change into something sexy with heels. On a Sunday morning she can wake up early and run to the bathroom to do herself up for me.

    For guys who are like “I like girls who play sports, and don’t worry about their makeup, and don’t spend all day on their hair, and who drink beer and swear and aren’t afraid to burp out loud and like quadding on the weekends…” You don’t like girls, you like dudes.

    Soon as I sniff out Tomboy qualities I lose interest completely. Right now one of my fuckbuddies dresses up in a brand new sexy outfit EVERY time she comes over. I’ve never seen her look anything but done up gorgeous in various kinky costumes or sexy classy dresses. Her nails are always done, her hair is always taken care of, she’s absolutely gorgeous and horny as hell and she LIKES feeling like a sexy feminine woman.

    I qualify early to find out if a girl thinks lingerie and dressing up is the norm or for “special occasions” (aka a couple times a year on birthdays or valentine’s day) and high-tail it to look for a girl who oozes feminine sex appeal.

    If we pass a lineup at a bar and a chick I’m with says “I would NEVER wear something like THAT.” referencing the girls in tight sexy mini-skirts or “omg look at those silly girls, it’s too cold to dress like that!” we’re pretty much done.

    I find the 18-25yos tend to be more Tomboyish than the 30+ crowd. The 18yos will be dressed up at the club when you meet them, but that’s their one sexy “going out” outfit in their closet because they aren’t financially stable yet and have dozens of orbiters no matter how badly groomed they are. The 30+ women have money to burn and can afford to do themselves up all the time and have the clock ticking so they want to be well-groomed all the time since they’re dying to meet a man soon.

    Then there’s that akward-ass 25-30 crowd of girls who feels too old to dress super-sexy/slutty, but hasn’t figured out how or can’t afford to dress sexy yet.

    Fuck I’m picky these days. Must be gettin’ old and crotchety lol

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  11. on December 14, 2011 at 9:19 pm the_alpha_male

    BTW, that hardy loud laugh is definitely ALPHA!!!!!

    The biggest alpha i knew (besides me) had the loudest laugh……almost comical and fake.

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    • Heh, seriously? I’m a woman and it came across to me as decidedly beta after just a couple of seconds of watching the guy. He was making me cringe. He’s too loud, the laughter is forced, and visually there’s too much leaning forward and rocking around, pointless hand-clapping, over-expressiveness… basically, he looks and sounds like a dork.

      Give me a mildly amused chuckle, a faint twinkle in the eye, hell, even a disinterested smirk over this guy’s ‘laughter’ anyday. The way he’s behaving puts me in mind of that sort of idiot that laughs at all of his jokes AND yours no matter how bad they are. The sort of guy you lean away from uncomfortably every time he starts laughing, which is way too often. Okay, so I’m probably reading way too much into it now, but to me, he’s beta.

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    • An uncontrolled laugh like that indicates Bezos is Stewart’s bitchos. He is completely at the mercy of Stewart’s humor and is unashamed to make it as loudly known as possible.

      It has a deep timbre though, so that might be mistaken for manly. And there is an insouciance about it that could be thought of as alpha.

      Bezos is a powerful man, whose reputation precedes him. But he was not projecting power so much as childish abandon, and his lack of self-control honored the other man in his presence, rather than himself.

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      • when youre a boss you can laugh how you want. which is a good thing because laughs aren’t really malleable.

        stewart is a court jester. he defers to the status quo (like the time he called truman a war criminal and then meekly apologized for it when his superiors put him in his place), which is propped up by industrialists like bezos.

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  12. if you by chance had a daughter would not she end up a Tomboy? How could you not teach her to ride wild horses and shoot deadly firearms and to stand tall and take no prizinors? How could you not?
    I know something about this. My daughters name translates into English as “Lioness”. She is a better shot than I am. She has rather blandly killed a lot of barn-rats with the heels of her ride-ing boots And she has known for a long time that some fairly violent people are on call, 24/7 to help her deal with any “problems”.
    And she has become VERY feminime because of it all.

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  13. “BTW, that hardy loud laugh is definitely ALPHA!!!!!

    The biggest alpha i knew (besides me) had the loudest laugh……almost comical and fake.”

    No way, its beta. Bezos is supplicating to John Stewart. point, one he makes frequently, is that professional success is not an indicator of alphaness.

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  14. Playing varsity team sports doesn’t always mean a girl is a tomboy. I’ve met enough exceptions in both directions that I’d say it’s not worth much as a rule. It’s just a sort of visualization to understand this particular type of masculine girl.

    Most of the athletic women I know did not have much to work with in the first place. They have a bad WHR or weird proportions or bad skin or they are very tall or they are older, etc.. It takes a fairly rare, obsessive personality to train so much that muscles and low body fat start harming attractiveness. Sagging breasts are the only thing I would really worry about for most women.

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  15. I definitely have some sort of strange attraction towards tomboys (attractive ones obviously). I don’t think of them as hot, but rather cute. I don’t look at them and have that instant feeling of wanting to violate their orifices with my dick, but that I actually like them.

    I wonder if this is due to a playground crush I had on this tomboy-ish girl I had as a child, or what, since a lot of guys here dont seem to like ’em.

    [Heartiste: Tomboys can be very likable, even attractive. But they rarely excite a man to do crazy things in the name of love like a highly estrogenic woman with her feminine manners does.]

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    • As a tomboy, I have to agree with CH on this. Men don’t really fall in love with you, so much as just enjoy your company and appreciate you. Every once in a while, a guy will really like you, but he usually is a bit of an oddball.

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      • I have to agree with this. But I sure do appreciate my “tomboyish” girls. None are (or were) athletes, by the way. “Tomboy” is an attitude, not an activity or body type.

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      • But the majority of tom boys are ones who have many guy friends, and we all know any attractive girl with a lot of guy friends has most of them swooning over her.

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      • It’s not so much swooning as willing. I think there needs to be some clarification about what a tomboy is. A tomboy is not a slouch. She’s just more masculine than average.

        All in all, if a woman does it right, it gives her greater access to a better pool of men, but how many of us actually do it right? As some of you remember, I thought I was cool.

        A tomboy, of all women, can least afford to be a feminist. We just don’t have the natural traits to trigger men’s protective instincts despite the cultural programming that we’re “equals”.

        In a comfortably patriarchal culture, no matter how rough a woman is, a man is going to view her as a woman. He’s going to see her as vulnerable no matter how strong she is or how much she blusters because he has awareness of the reality. So his attitude towards her is going to be either protector or guide or some of both. Either way, it’s recognizing his at least physical dominance.

        In a feminist culture, if a woman is strong and domineering, he’s going to view her basically as a man…at best, a man with a vagina. He doesn’t go into protector or guide mode. He views her as equally capable in a lot of ways, and in the extreme, equally capable of taking a punch. She is a competitor for (or maybe an ally in securing) resources, and not a human resource herself.

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  16. A tomboy wise to the ways of men may ask her girlier friends why they even bother dressing up? Men will size you up 90% of the way in a second with a quick glance at your face, hourglass figure, ass and breasts,…

    Yep.

    Frankly, excessive makeup is a royal pain. You have to waste time while she “fixes her face.” And makeup is messy, smearing all over the place. And leaving lip prints on the cutlery. Same thing with high heels, garter belts and a lot of other stuff. They waste a lot of time and can be a pain when you are out. Every try to walk down the street with a female hobbling on high heels?

    Also, when an overly made-up female gets undressed, the result often looks like a cosmeticized head on top of an often out-of-shape body. Right out of the David Lynch playbook.

    I’d say that men with experience with women would rather see a female with good skin quality, muscle tone, and who is decent to them. This rather than something that looks like it was kept behind glass in an parlor of embalming.

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    • I agree with this… Obviously some accoutrements are lovely, though if you’re walking down the street with a women “hobbling” in her heels, she’s doing it wrong. 😉

      As for overly made-up… no one wants to be the woman who can’t be seen without her make-up. That means women who want to remain fresh faced even without make-up have to take care of themselves. Things like drinking enough water, getting enough good quality sleep, eating plenty of veggies with lots of nutrients, and staying the heck out of the sun.

      Your remark, “men want women who are ‘decent’ to them,” makes me sad. Take a page from the book of “what girls are told at a young age” and don’t settle for decent… insist you be treated the way you want (in exchange for treating her the way she wants, of course). If she doesn’t live up to her end of the bargain, move on.

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  17. *snipped trollish crap from ip alternater*

    So, which is it? Athletic and healthy partners who enjoy sport, or feminine slender ones who can’t necessarily keep up on a brisk walk through a damn parking lot?

    [Heartiste: False dichotomy. Women can be healthy and athletic without participating in male-oriented team sports or having grating, competitive personalities.]

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    • Wow.

      [Heartiste: Whenever I read “wow” as the first word from a commenter, I know a storm of stupidity is on the way.]

      Can’t handle me talking about losing weight?

      [You so silly. Slender is better than fat. Congrats on the weight loss.]

      Or gaining confidence through physical fitness?

      [Physical fitness does not necessarily require participation in male-oriented team sports or a masculine competitive attitude. But it seems that point sailed right over your blocklike head in your rush to troll this board.]

      *THAT’S* considered trolling?!?

      [Deliberately ignoring a correction to your thinking, and carrying on with your ill-formed flawed premises as if your point wasn’t already addressed, is a form of trolling, yes. Unintended trolling, maybe, but still trolling.]

      I was being genuine in my comment (which you reduced to “trolling”). I read your blog because ocassionally I think you hit it right on. But if I’m not allowed to ask questions, than what’s the point?

      [Deal with the proprietors of this blog in good faith, and you will get a better reception here.]

      Also, I have no idea what an “IP alternator” is, but I assume it’s because I read and reply from my phone.

      [You all start to sound the same after a while.]

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      • Honestly, I’m just genuinely shocked. I’ve never been considered a “troll” before. I thought I was being reasonable in my comments… I understand that you think women can be physically fit without being competitive or tomboy-ish. I offered up my own experience as an example of having MEN encourage me to be MORE competitive in typically male dominated sports. If most men found competitive women unattractive, why go to such great lengths to help me (and other, far more attractive women than myself) learn these things?

        I’m not trying to be “blockish”; like I said… sometimes you really do hit the nail on the head. (Women in the US ARE unhealthy, women are far more attracted to men with confidence, etc.) I just think you may be doing a disservice to the women who DO read your site because they are likely to read “women are fat and unhealthy, lose the weight” but then get confused and think, “but I probably shouldn’t workout because tomboys aren’t attractive either.” Is it right? No. But women might misinterpret. Clearly, I did.

        And yes, women can get fit through yoga and diet (holy hell, diet is, like 80% of the problem), but you and I both know building lean muscle is important for long-term health, and that requires more than yoga (or in my case, ballet as I mentioned).

        Clearly I haven’t been lurking long enough if I’m considered trolling and/or “we all sound the same.” Outta curiosity, does my IP address show up the same now? I’m still on my phone, but haven’t moved from my desk. I don’t particularly care, but if it’s any difference to you, that’s the situation. Like I said in my comment you deleted… I’m a teacher. I’m sure as hell not going to visit your blog on our school network. 😉

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      • I offered up my own experience as an example of having MEN encourage me to be MORE competitive in typically male dominated sports. If most men found competitive women unattractive, why go to such great lengths to help me (and other, far more attractive women than myself) learn these things?

        if they didn’t find you attractive to begin with, they figured that you may as well be good at something. with hot women, the guys figure it’s a way to get into their pants.

        but sometimes, if someone (man or woman) is genuinely interested in learning an activity, we teach them. so it’s not always about spreading our seed, sometimes it’s about spreading our knowledge.

        but you and I both know building lean muscle is important for long-term health, and that requires more than yoga

        lift weights.

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  18. “A woman lavishly dresses up in context-appropriate ways not just to impress other women but to frighten them into giving up and going home so that she may absorb all the male attention like the sole whore in a brothel in the middle of the desert.”

    Lol! You slay me. So true though.

    One of my good friends is a tomboy. I can’t remember when last she’s worn a dress and is pretty proud about knowing nothing about makeup . However, she does have fashion sense in some capacity and guys compliment her on her “swag” as I guess they can relate to much of her style. Albeit a petite, definite cutie (about a 7), I simply can’t imagine that she inspires much lust in your average guy upon first sight. Normally I’m contemptuous of these kinds of girls, but our friendship works for some reason.

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  19. CH, as a general comment, these blog entires about particular feminine ‘types’ are very interesting, and it would be great if there were more of them.

    One thing I’ve noticed is that women have their own Alpha/Beta dynamics which are very different than how men relate to each other, but have the same effect in creating a group hierarchy. (That’s a whole topic could be greatly expanded on.)

    But there is another type of a girl who is more of a loner or outsider, who doesn’t deal with other bitches’ bullshit, so she has a small tight group of female friends and spends a lot of time around guys. Most women HATE HATE HATE this type of girl, because they see her as a threat and have very little social control over her, and will try socially isolate her as a slut or whatever.

    A loner girl is often confused with a tomboy because she hangs out with dudes. But there’s a big difference between the tomboy girl who wants to hang with the cool boys versus the feminine girl with a more masculine view on social relationships. And I suspect that most really beautiful women fall more on the loner spectrum than the tomboy side.

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  20. “most men actually like it when a woman is a little bit coy with them”

    Just a LITTLE BIT, for fuck sake.

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  21. I don’t mind tomboys as flings, as long as they don’t have a short fucking hair.
    Tomboy with short hair = Dyke

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  22. OT: 1 in 5 women have been raped, half of them by their partner

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/15/health/nearly-1-in-5-women-in-us-survey-report-sexual-assault.html

    Because of FRAs, the real number would be more like 1 in 10.
    Anyway, prepare for another crackdown on male nature, with prevention compaigns (like if sane men didn’t know that rape was wrong), and more disregard for the accused males’ rights.
    That’s just the way it is.

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  23. Girly-girls recover quickly from being dumped?

    [Heartiste: Compared to tomboys, yes. But I did qualify that girly-girls will not recover well from a dumping if they have already fallen in love. Or did you choose to skip over that part to spew your usual trollery?]

    Is this something you tell yourself to feel better when you break another girl’s heart?

    [I don’t break girls’ hearts. I pat them on their heart-shaped behinds and send them on their way, like little cindylouwho.]

    And please stop abusing words ‘romantic’ and ‘love’ because you have no idea about their meaning.

    [I know it when I feel it.]

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    • “But I did qualify that girly-girls will not recover well from a dumping if they have already fallen in love.”

      Are there any other reasons women start romantic relationships with men besides falling in love?

      [Heartiste: Golddigging. But a woman with that frame of mind would only miss the money, not the man.]

      “I don’t break girls’ hearts.”

      Yes, you do.

      [Only collaterally.]

      If anyone ever loved you then you definitely broke her heart when you dumped her.

      [Intent is three fifths of the law of love.]

      “I know it when I feel it.”

      No, you don’t.

      [Yes, I do. It feels great! You should try it sometime.]

      What you feel is not love.

      [And you’re the expert on matters of the heart? I thought you were a celibate shut-in?]

      You’re not able to feel love.

      [I am not… a machinimal!]

      So please stop writing about this topic.

      [Why does it bother you so deeply to think that a devilish rapscallion like me might be able to give, and receive, love?]

      Like


      • “Why does it bother you so deeply to think that a devilish rapscallion like me might be able to give, and receive, love?”

        It’s because I’m jealous. I didn’t hurt anyone in my whole life and I’m not able to find love while you’re an evil person who enjoys when other people suffer and you still are able to make people love you.

        [Heartiste: Bill Clinton chortled.]

        This is just not fair, don’t you think?!

        [Life is not fair. All you can do is get used to it and make it work for you where you can.
        Funny thing is, all it would take to turn your morbid celibacy around is a spruce-up and a promise to yourself to step outside the house with a come-hither look on your face. Oh, and a willingness to settle.
        But you knew that.]

        Like


      • No, I don’t know that.

        [Heartiste: Replies like this are the reason why you are supremo troll #1. For now.]

        I don’t know what does ‘settling’ mean.

        [It means redirecting your courtship energies away from male 8s if you are a female 3, and toward men closer to your SMV.]

        I want to fall in love and be with someone I like.

        [Well you can’t get there from here. You’ve gotta get out and go on a few dates first.]

        I don’t want to force myself to sleep with someone without any feeling towards him.

        [Settling doesn’t mean enduring self-torture. It means reeling in your expectations to match your reality.
        If you can’t, or won’t, do that, then you will live out the remainder of your sad years alone.]

        Like


      • “[It means redirecting your courtship energies away from male 8s if you are a female 3, and toward men closer to your SMV.]”

        But I’m not attracted to men who hit on me! How can I make myself feel anything?

        [Heartiste: Brazilian wax.]

        “Settling doesn’t mean enduring self-torture. It means reeling in your expectations to match your reality. If you can’t, or won’t, do that, then you will live out the remainder of your sad years alone.”

        If I do that (=match my expectations with reality) will I fall in love then?

        [Maybe. But it’s definitely a better chance than knowing you won’t fall in love sitting in the house staring out the window at the bare branches of winter.]

        If you choose to settle you fall in love with this person? Or should I just forget this fantasy about romantic love and focus more on finding a decent guy I can have babies with? But what if I find out after a few years that I’m not happy anymore and that I’m torturing myself – will I have to dump him???

        [The questions you are asking are indicative of an underdeveloped psychology, like that of a four year old. Or a troll.]

        Like


      • “[Heartiste: Brazilian wax.]”

        lol 😀

        “[The questions you are asking are indicative of an underdeveloped psychology, like that of a four year old. Or a troll.]”

        So I’m underdeveloped in my head? I’ve heard this before from other people … What should I do to fix my brain quickly?

        Like


      • “[Well you can’t get there from here. You’ve gotta get out and go on a few dates first.]”

        But what if I don’t want anyone to get to know me? I can’t talk to guys for more than half an hour.

        Like


    • Off topic, do you ever accept new writers for this blog? You know I LOVE it (I think I’m your biggest fan ever) and I’m not quite happy with just commenting … Who can become a writer here? Are there any requirements?

      [Heartiste: If you want to guest post, just submit your contribution to this blog’s email on the about page. If it isn’t total rubbish and has something interesting to say, it stands a good chance of getting posted.]

      Like


      • why not start your own blog? clearly, you have a lot of innovative ideas and opinions. it would be a shame for the world to remain unmolestered by them.

        here are some name suggestions:

        views from within the maya matrix
        irrational female
        i just want to be loved, is that so wrong?
        eat, pray, die
        insipid ingenue
        look at meeeee! a wild ride on the sexual irrelevance centrifuge
        garden of razor blades

        no need to thank me. i do marketing in my day job.

        [heartiste: ‘eat, pray, die’. perfect.]

        Like


  24. Sorry, OT: But CH, this story is begging for comment from the Dark Lord: http://www.self.com/health/2008/11/serial-rapist

    Putting aside questions of guilt or innocence, this is fascinating. An accused serial rapist allegedly drugs and rapes over fifty women (I’m dubious about the drugging, of reasons that will be clear if you read the article). The only one to call the cops was a lesbian. Virtually all the rest continue to see, date and/or befriend/flirt with him long after they claim he raped them. Everyone (including the women and the author) is baffled about this, and falls back on some academic PTSD psychobabble to explain it.

    Before reading CH, I would have been baffled, too. But to any denizen of the chateau, the situation is crystal clear. It’s obvious why those women did what they did once you’ve seen the matrix.

    Like


  25. I have a soft spot for Tomboys. They made great FWB’s in college… low maintenance and great bodies. Back in the day I had a field hockey player.. loved the little skirt and long socks and braid down her back… and a distance runner ( wore all tight shit.). I didn’t really care that they weren’t all sex and the city fashionistas, cuz they looked great in a bikini/ bra/thong and didn’t wear sweat pants everywhere.

    I never go around to nailin a volleyball player, but any babe with long legs who has multiple sets of knee pads can’t be all that bad.

    Like


  26. I personally don’t find tomboys attractive due to their lack of femininity, but it might be just that I haven’t met the attractive ones yet.

    Like


  27. on December 15, 2011 at 10:52 am Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM)

    lzozlzlzozlzlzl hey heartistseet heartisste! lzozzlzozozozzozlz

    i foudned morez peopelss on da ineternets internets who talk like me!!! lzozlzlzozo

    http://isanyoneup.com

    nbhnc lzozozozzozoz !!!!!

    lzozozlzolzozzlzozozoz

    chea charlotte allensss is going to be mad at them too for their gramemamrz grammazrz zlozzllzozzlzozozozozooz

    lzoozzlzozozlzozlzozoz

    Like


    • on December 15, 2011 at 11:32 am Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM)

      #nbhnc means “no butt hole no care” lzozozzlzl as hunter mororee only wants photosos with buttholes in dem from da hotties who strip naked and send in photoos to da alpha hunter mooree lzozlzlz

      http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=NBHNC


      No butthole, no care.

      Originating on the site “Is Anyone Up” (Hunter Moore)

      Basically, I see your butthole in your n00dz
      It’s simple…NBHNC”

      wellz, charlotee allen and da weekly standadth dstaff are gonna be VERY VERY UPSET with this as butt hole is NOT TWO WORDS it is one ONE WORD BUTTHOLE!!! at least when their six-foot tall buutthexual hero tucker mas rheyems iwth goldman sax butthexed girlss thsst and taped it secrteeley en route to be heralded in da weekly snatanaddd as a succteheeufl filmmkaer six foot tall butthexual hero at teast tucker max rhymes iwth goldman sax spelled buttthexx correctly pleaseing da againg neoconcc ladies well!!! HOW FAR CULTURE HATH FALLEN!!! to spell butthole ad BUTT HOLE lzozozlzlzlzzl

      so it sholulbd be #nbnc !!!!!!! lzozozzo

      sometimes even i am embraarssessed to be a part of a generation with such bad grammars!!!!

      we need more neoocn money printig to fund more federal ecuation proamagss to teach da peoples dat butthole is ONE WORD so that they can send in pictures of der ebuettehoslsles when they turn 18 and do it with proper grammarssss like da weeklyss standasdtdh demandeth zlzozzllzl

      Like


  28. Just watched a girl with a giant man-jaw beat the crap out of one with a tiny and feminine jaw-line on Bodog Fighting. No contest.

    Tomboys? [shudder]

    Like


  29. This is confusing: So girly girls don’t like romance? Can someone tell me where its appropriate.

    [Heartiste: Girly-girls like signs of provisioning, which they interpret as romance. Men are the true idealistic, head in the clouds romantics.]

    Like


    • “Men are the true idealistic, head in the clouds romantics.”

      This is the maxim of maxims. It’s the truest thing that can be said.

      For many men, the single most difficult thing to grasp is that female nature, is, in essence, *cold.*

      They persist in this most basic ignorance and they suffer for it.

      Like


      • This ^

        Even a woman in love does not have the SAME love as a man.

        A woman in love can leave you to marry a man who owns the passport to her dream country.

        Women are pragmatic in ways that men think are devilishly cold.

        Men believe that love matters for the sake of it. Women love opportunistically.

        Like


      • Women live in their days, in the details of days — that’s their strength and their charm.

        Men live in the past and future. They’re only really present when they are in ecstasy. Fucking, drinking, fighting, watching their horse come in.

        Men are great dreamers…women *do what has to be done.*

        The terrible and sweet difference between us.

        Like


      • so true. women ultimately have a responsibility to their children. they must beg, borrow, steal if need be to do right by them. a cold-eyed amoral pragmatism and thank god for it.

        Like


      • “women *do what has to be done.*

        So true. And what has to be done is to persuade a man to do it.

        Like


      • Heh. Exactly.

        Like


      • Again, because their reasoning faculty is weak, things clearly visible and real, and belonging to the present, exercise a power over them which is rarely counteracted by abstract thoughts, fixed maxims, or firm resolutions, in general, by regard for the past and future or by consideration for what is absent and remote.

        Schopenhauer, On Women

        Like


      • This is the realest comment ever. CH, please make a whole post on this specifically.

        Like


      • “For many men, the single most difficult thing to grasp is that female nature, is, in essence, *cold.*”

        Probably the last thing we’ll be able to convince the AFC of–even after they’ve accepted every other game tenant.

        Like


  30. Girl I’ve been seeing for a while now now was apparently always a tomboy before me, and was also well known to her male friends and orbiters as the “alpha” of any relationship she gets in. But once I made it clear that I prefer feminine dress, she dresses like a girl for me every time.

    Note my idea of “feminine” is pretty conservative. I find the super slutty nightclub look is actually as hard and aggressive in its own way as dressing like a man. It is not soft, it does not show weakness. It is worse than tomboy. A tomboy is just apathetic. The club slut look is actively offensive; the only thing worse is the power lawyer business woman style. Or BDSM scenesters, all studded up in leather like a (male) biker.

    Somebody said something about women over 30 understanding how to dress feminine better than younger ones. I prefer older women’s style on a young girl I guess.

    [Heartiste: It would send a collective shudder of nightmarish terror through the sinewy souls of aged cougars if they knew that a young woman in a potato sack looks more desirable than an old woman in the finest vestments.]

    Like


    • Hell ya. And, lord, spare me the women in their 30s dressing like club sluts (or worse, dressing like club sluts and actually going to clubs). Cougars really are pathetic. Worse than that, their stupidity pisses me off.

      Of course, I never liked clubs, and now you couldn’t pay me enough to step inside one.

      Like


    • [Heartiste: It would send a collective shudder of nightmarish terror through the sinewy souls of aged cougars if they knew that a young woman in a potato sack looks more desirable than an old woman in the finest vestments.]

      Depends on if you can see “enough” of the young woman to determine if she is in fact young.

      Young girls who walk around in sweatpants look good but because you don’t see all of their curves they tend to get outshined by an older woman who knows how to dress in a way that hides all of her flaws and shows all of her assets correctly.

      Of course above all is a trained eye which can spot the difference, but that takes many years and education.

      Like


  31. Older women appreciate higher quality clothing because cheap clothing looks terrible on us. Also, better made clothes last longer and are more comfortable.

    Like


  32. How come every girl who claims she is/was a tomboy gives as her only shred of evidence that she climbed trees as a kid?

    All kids climb trees.

    Like


    • Again, there is the need to define “tomboy” in these discussions. I was a martial artist, the first girl to play soccer in my high school’s team, and have the boy with boobs photos from those days. I’ve also been in the Navy and worked security. I have facial scars and some permanent injuries from fights.

      I have no regrets about the things I’ve done to survive. My main problem with my past was my attitude. I was suffering and confused, while others around me sang, “You GO grrrl!” I didn’t have the sense to understand that I was basically being tooled into believing that further masculinizing was a good solution to being at a social and physical disadvantage.

      I actually thought that what I needed from men was their respect. Go on and laugh. It is kinda funny in hindsight.

      Like


      • One of the maxims is that women love to remove other women from competition by encouraging attitudes and behavior that turn men off. They strive to increase their value by diminishing yours.

        Like


  33. I’m having a frame problem with a 21 year old girly girl:

    She is very attractive, feminine. I have gamed her pretty well and we went out last night. In short, there was a strong connection, and she revealed that she has had feelings for me for a while. So for a first date, I thought it was escalating amazingly well. So I move in to kiss her, and she turns her head! But she doesn’t push me away, instead she starts feeling me up, so I start kissing her neck and she softly moans in a good way. I try to kiss her again, and she turns away again!

    I ask WTF? And honestly, she has decent reasons for not wanting to move too fast, but I completely lost the frame after this.

    In a nutshell, my difficulty was in switching gears. I was succeeding with a dominant frame, and when she threw up this road block, I ignored it as a shit test and continued trying to kiss her. But then she demonstrated that the roadblock was legit, so after 3 tries, I wasn’t going to try to overpower her will. Instead, I get sucked into this terribly gay conversation where she’s explaining all her reasons why she wants to go slow because she really likes me, and I’m stuck there trying to verbally convince her that i’m not just out to screw her. Any suggestions on how to deal with this?

    At the big picture level, I need to make her feel less secure about my interest, and I can do that my limiting my availability, being vague about my plans, etc. But any suggestions for what I could have done right in the moment to deal with her moral stand?

    Like


    • Dealing with LMRs, even for the kiss, is not an exact science.

      Your best bet is to take the refusal like a gentleman, don’t freak out or act weird. Just acknowledge her action and gently back off. Say something casual (in your described case, it would be something like “you smell nice though, what’s your secret?”).

      And then gradually freeze. Whatever she might say, don’t respond with more than one word. Look away and act aloof. Wait until you notice that she’s qualifying herself to win your approval. If she stays silent for too long, you can throw a sentence or two, just enough to restart the hamster. And freeze again, wait for her to seek approval/qualification.

      Then when she’s desperate for attention, gradually reengage eye contact, and escalate again (kino, chickcrack, inuendos, whatever…). Use a Mystery line or something to introduce the kiss (“do you want to kiss me?” “no” ” I didn’t say I’d let you kiss me, but you really seem like you want to kiss me”)

      If she doesn’t go for the kiss after all these jedi tricks, move the fuck on. Pussy is not precious enough to lose your sanity over it.

      Like


    • mono, or open herpes sores.

      Like


    • Ever seen a dog humping someone’s leg? That’s you to her. 🙂

      She wants you to seduce her and turn her on till she’s dying for it, not jump right for the goods. There are like dozens of erogenous zones and ways to tease her and turn her on, like nibbling on her neck. She’s trying to signal that to you but you’ve got a subconscious “GOTTA GET TEH KISS ON LIPS OR I DONT WIN!!!1” thing going on.

      The soft moan was her signal. She wanted a shit-ton of foreplay so that she’d be as horny as you were.

      You’ve heard the saying that goes like “Men’s horniness is like flipping a light switch on, women’s horniness is like a radio dial you slowly turn up”? That’s what that situation was.

      “and I’m stuck there trying to verbally convince her that i’m not just out to screw her.”

      PUA rule: “Change her mood, not her mind.” Forget talking or getting into a gay debate. Kiss her neck, let her feel you up, pull away like you’re trying to stop, go back in for her neck like you can’t control yourself because she has you so turned on, run fingertips up and down her body, caress her legs, whisper in her ear, forget about her lips entirely. When she’s ready for that stage, she won’t resist.

      Good luck if you get the shot again. 🙂 Read some PUA literature on overcoming LMR. Some of the PUA stuff about opening lines and doing magic tricks and shit might be super gay, but the LMR and ASD stuff is solid.

      Fuck it, here’s the link for you:

      http://www.bristollair.com/2011/outer-game/pua-routines/closing/how-to-disarm-last-minute-resistance/

      I don’t get LMR anymore because I’m awesome, but I did when I was starting out and lost a bunch of lays to it till I learned to handle it. Matador’s suggestion is number 4 on that list, a freeze-out. But I wouldn’t recommend it because a freeze-out is a total hail-mary miracle maneuver for if you’ve exhausted all other options. If you’ve tried numbers 1, 2, 3, and 5 on that list and none of that works, THEN try the freeze-out.

      Stealing the frame (number 1 on that list) and Riker’s 3 Rules (number 3) are probably what would’ve helped you out in your situation along with smoother sexual escalation. Read parts 2 and 3 of the article (link towards the bottom) instead of just skimming the jist of the 1st article…15 minutes of reading now could be getting you months of good sex down the road instead of blueballs. 😉

      Like


    • I know that for some people kissing is an important part of important foreplay.

      But you could try just sidestepping it altogether. Maybe she’s more comfortable with what may be less intimate, and less romantic. Just grab her tits and pussy. Get her horny.

      For some of us, kissing doesn’t really fit all sexual situations. It’s a romantic thing to do, and we aren’t really always into it. Sometimes in the heat of a great fuck, I’ll get the mood to kiss, but I rarely want to kiss as a prelude to a great fuck.

      So aim for her sex, and bypass the romance.

      Like


    • Everybody’s too f’ing careful. This young girl is horny as fuck, and she wants cock.

      Next time you’re alone with her, whip it out. Get it out and say: look what you’ve done to me, look at this you sweet little fucking bitch.

      Tell her she’s a sweet fucking slut and that she needs to make you come with her mouth — tell her: let’s see how fast you can get me off with your mouth.

      Beta = careful. Always always careful.

      Get rid of that.–

      Like


  34. This isn’t meant to be posted, just a comment to you directly…

    I just realized when I posted my last comment that you can probably see my email address. I’m neither a parent, nor religious. I set it up my senior year of college (the year listed) to anonymously collect info on one of my papers. It’s since become my catch-all “junk” email for anything I either want to remain anonymous or don’t want spamming my real email. I probably should set up something different, but alas, laziness prevails.

    Secondly, I read your blog because, as I mentioned, I think you’ve got some valid points. (My favorite post is the picture of the “beta” on the train someone sent in and your remarks as to what you’d do to “alpha” him up. I think you hit the nail on the head with that.) I’m genuinely not trying to be argumentative or blockish. I appreciate your perspective because often guys don’t know how to say what they want, but you do. Thus, I learn. Also, you are right about women “not knowing what they want.” I haven’t always been able to articulate what turns me off from an otherwise awesome man (smart, attractive, kind, loyal)… I always just said, “he’s not confident enough for me” without realizing this said absolutely nothing. It wasn’t until I stumbled on your site (google search, IIRC) and a few others that I was able to say specifically what annoyed me. Things like, “don’t put me on a pedestal,” and “stop acting like you’ll die if this relationship ends… you won’t.” I was finally able to tell my LTR *specifically* what NOT to do to lose my attraction. I couldn’t make it any easier for him.

    Bah… This should’ve been an email, but too late, class is starting and my thumbs hurt.

    Like


  35. I love EP theories, this one about fashion:

    http://www.lloydianaspects.co.uk/evolve/fashion.html

    Evolutionarily speaking, fashion doesn’t make sense a priori because women’s hindbrains intuit that facial symmetry, breast size and WHR are far more important for men, who won’t go for an ugly fat chick just because she’s wearing prada.
    It turns out that women are only competing against each other, but why?

    The EP theorist suggests that fashion is a tool to keep the foreigners away, his reasoning is rather long but in a nutshell:

    “the fact that modern (British) women are more interested in fashion than men is down to a person’s ability to narrow the field of competition by excluding outsiders from the in-group of rivals”

    Besides, bitches seem to prefer fashion-oriented men because it signals their belonging to the group.

    I don’t blame tomboys because they (their genes) are in part keeping it real. But their lack of femininity suggests a lack of ability to nurture, that’s probably why most men don’t really fancy them for ltrs.

    Like


    • Interesting. I was thinking about this a while ago. I think nice clothes mainly show that you are clean and have lots of money (both increase your ability to raise healthy kids) but idk …

      Like


  36. @ vcs

    I’ve dated enough of these girls to have developed a hair-trigger red flag reaction to them.

    Hallmarks of Narcissistic and Borderline Personality Disorder (so-called “Cluster B”) types.

    Crucial that they do have female friends, who are near their age and SMV, for me to consider dating them.

    Stuff like:

    “spends a lot of time around guys”

    and

    “girl with a more masculine view on social relationships”

    are serious causes for concern. ESPECIALLY if they’re very beautiful, as is often the case as you say.

    If I hear something like: “I don’t get along with women, they’re too catty”, or “I’m like a dude in a girl’s body”… it’s a big turn-off, even though she’s probably saying it to build rapport with me.

    She’s rarely a TOTAL loner; usually she’ll have a close guy friend or two who in one way or another are substandard (ugly/gay/addict), who accepts them unconditionally but who their ego will not allow them to date openly. She may have mercy-fucked him once long ago, at an ego nadir.

    Typically they will run hot and cold emotionally, yo-yo on attachment/abandonment, refuse to take responsibility for their actions, constantly put you in difficult situations, and eventually disrespect or betray you without remorse.

    Trust me, she will shit inside your heart and test your sanity. She has never learned how to properly co-exist with her own beauty in a social context, and a part of her personality will NEVER GROW UP, at least not until her beauty has diminished.

    Cocoa puffs. I could go on and on about these girls. I even wrote a fake online dating ad, sarcastically pretending to be looking for one. I could post it here on the Chateau, but it’s really long… because the girls I dated had so much in common.

    Like


    • you’ve dated imposter tomboys

      Like


      • You might be right about that. I think a lot of girls who are blessed – born with everything in the right place, physically – have a hard time dealing with the social pressure that comes along with it.

        I think some of them self-identify with the tomboy image to avoid direct social competition, romanticising themselves as outcasts.

        Most of the self-described “tomboys” I’ve dated weren’t, for example, necessarily all that good with tools… or spiders for that matter.

        Like


    • on December 15, 2011 at 3:45 pm Holden Caulfield

      “Typically they will run hot and cold emotionally, yo-yo on attachment/abandonment, refuse to take responsibility for their actions, constantly put you in difficult situations, and eventually disrespect or betray you without remorse. ”

      That quote is so spot on from my own experiences with those types of women.

      Like


    • D-man – Glad my description hit home with someone, and you’re right on. You’re right that these loner types go hot and cold, and will shittest everyone around them hard to determine their worthiness. But

      I

      Like


    • D-man – Glad my description hit home with someone, and you’re mostly right on. These beautiful loner types go hot and cold, and they will viciously shittest every guy around them hard to determine their worthiness, and they are extremely vain.

      However, a girl with ‘masculine’ views will tend to have firm normative ideals which aren’t just a product of their social consensus. The dislike of shitty female social relationships is genuine (the way girls ‘alpha’ each other is actually really awful). They also tend to be ‘daddy’s girls’ in my observations. There is a lot to work with there, and while I don’t have the formula, men do successfully pin down this type of women.

      A really beautiful woman (or even one that knows how to ‘play’ guys) is ultimately bound to be a bit megalomaniacal, it’s just the nature of the beast. I’d draw the line between the ones who are simply full of themselves and the very bad news Cluster B types.

      Like


    • Cluster B.

      Shu u u u udd d d d er.

      Like


  37. Some guys can tolerate the tomboyishnes. It’s a huge boner killer for me though.

    I know this girl who is super sexy in appearance but whose masculine demeanour disgusts me. I don’t even want to be around her because her butch ways just seem so….unnatural.

    I’m sure you could break this type of girl in to be sweet and feminine, but all the bullshit and dyke shit you would have to put up with to get there would leave me perma-flacid.

    Like


  38. God, I love tomboys. I love them because they’re so unsubtle, and so easy to frustrate, and their reactions when confounded are so blunt and priceless. Their constant hangout time provides endless opportunities for sexual tension, and their lack of guile means they’re less likely to play games with you.

    You can have your girly girls: nothing beats a cute, punky tomboy “tsundere” whose attraction is barely concieled and waiting to be unleashed.

    My my, I’m getting the vapors here.

    Like


  39. True tomboys are rare – be nice to them…there’s a lot of emotional scarring involved. Pretty tomboys get screwed/bullied, a lot, by other girls…and it goes completely undetected. Usually, true tomboys spend their forming childhood years playing with their older brother’s friends, are closer with their dads, and lack a connection with their mom (a true tomboy would rarely call her mother her “best friend”). Tomboys learn to address conflict the way boys do: physical fighting…It takes ‘em a while to catch on to the way girls address conflict: emotional backstabbing.

    at some point in high school, a few of the pretty, popular girls befriend tomboys and learn to mimic their behavior. Those chicks are extremely dangerous and lack empathy.

    Much like game, fashion sense can be learned.

    Like


  40. could the reason tomboys exist is that this is a subclass of women not invested in their female identity? of course they know they’re female, but it has little relevance to them and when it does, it’s considered inconvenient. they’re aware human beings come in 2 types and they have to be one or the other. they just happen to be women.

    full disclosure–i was a tomboy as a girl and thought the way outlined above. even today i have to consciously remind myself to dress nicely when the occasion demands-it does not come naturally. hours-long perusals of shopping malls are sheer torture. my shopping technique is invariably mission oriented–get in and out asap. that my geekier interests might render me less feminine didn’t bother me a bit.

    and yet, as you claim, many if not most like men even when they themselves do not embody the opposite characteristic, femininity. forgive me for the following, but i’m doing my best to articulate a difficult concept: subject vs object.

    it doesn’t matter what _you_ are, ‘you’ are subject, the one experiencing your feelings. at that moment you’re not thinking about your female identity, what you do for a living, your favorite color,i.e., all the things that make you ‘you’. you are simply experiencing, in this case experiencing attraction to men, the ‘object’. perhaps tomboys live more in a subjective state then girly girls, who are more self-conscious and more likely to monitor themselves in interactions with the opposite sex, or anyone for that matter. perhaps girly girls are more amenable to taking up behaviors prescribed by female socialization than the tomboy, who shrugs them off as uninteresting.

    [Heartiste: Socialization is the crap codewordiness of pop fembot pseudoscience. Most likely — and what I think you are getting at — the underlying mechanism is that tomboys simply have brains that are wired more like male brains, though not so male-wired that they go full-blown lezbo. Keep in mind that the ability to shrug off social pressures is predominantly a male trait, so tomboys’ natural nonconformity could just as easily have a biological basis as a cultural one.]

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    • “could the reason tomboys exist is that this is a subclass of women not invested in their female identity?”

      Yes, if you mean “social female identity.”

      People with naturally strong confidence can decide that conforming to social pressures isn’t as important.

      The social games of young girly-girls are pretty damn repulsive. If you’re smart enough to see that, and independent enough to go your own way, and have any interest in the real world, you’ll get called a tomboy.

      “Socialization” isn’t primarily a feminist codeword. Unlike “actualization” or “gender relations,” “socialization” has a pre-feminist history and is perfectly understandable.

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  41. I’m not sure that following fashion necessarily means being femminine. I can think of plenty of trends in women’s fashion that come and go which are anything but: cammoflauge, UGGs , boyfriend jeans, grommets and studs etc. Other things women do such as fake nails, spackeled on makeup, orange spray tans and so on can often look tacky more than feminine. In my opinion femininity is more about choosing clothing carefully which is pretty, well fitted, suited to ones size that accentuates the parts of the body which make women different than men while leaving something to the imagination. Makeup, again should be subtle and accentuate the natural features, not compete with them. If someone can see the actually lines a woman drew with the makeup, it’s too heavy. No makeup is substitute for good skincare, nutrition and a healthy lifestyle. You have to start with good skin, not glop on stuff to hide bad skin.

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  42. This is the key line of the post re tomboys.

    “She loved sex and had the libido of a man”.

    Did you also notice a sincere admiration for the cock?

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  43. “Those that get it accept that there are many different ranges of behaviors and styles that can make one a boss with the ladies. They understand that among the various men who are successful with women- whether they are gelled up guidos, starving artists, suave Don Drapers, or skinny ass potheads- exhibit through their various methods and lifestyles the overarching principles of dominance, status, outcome independence, mystery, and so on, but often in different mixtures.”

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  44. on December 16, 2011 at 12:51 am An Unmarried Man

    I rabidly agree with the summation here. In keeping with their hyper-testeronized nature, lifelong tomboys are more combative and possessive.

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  45. I’ve found that a good way to estimate the age of a woman is to look at their hands, elbows and feet. As they get older, past 30, the hands and feet will become veinier. Its a dead give away.

    As for the elbows, when their arms are more or less straight, you will see all these creases where the point of the elbow meets the upper arm, even if they are skinny. I find that the elbow is the most reliable measure of a womans age, but the hands are the easiest because they are more visible.

    Feel free to neg away.

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  46. Almost all hot girls in America play sports and/or cheerlead in high school. So when you meet an attractive woman, chances are she did one of those activities in high school. Athletic girls are usually not supergirly, but are often no less feminine off the field than other girls are. They usually go for guys who are also at least somewhat athletic.

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  47. I fail to see how sports like … volleyball,

    Volleyball might actually constitute the apex of female mannishness. Part of this might just be that they select for height, so many of the participants look like giraffes, thus non-feminine. Part of it is that the whole game is oriented toward the killer “spike,” so the women develop that same mien that you see on a black NBA guy when he’s dunking on Whitey, looking like he thinks he’s getting revenge for 300 years of slavery. Obviously I could be dead wrong, but I have a hard time imagining that female volleyball players ever kiss any man lovingly. On the other hand, men can turn ferocity on and off, so maybe young women can too.

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  48. Ok… Well seems to be a lot of comment/argument.
    Just a small comment, To comment on the idea of fashion.
    “Tomboys don’t participate in this fashion arms race, and their refusal to conform to the gender norm means they do not get along with the girly-girls, for the most part. ”
    I have noticed out of there is four and a half “types” of Tomboy Fashion( Being a very large spectrum this is a general `grouping`)
    Tomboy 1
    Enjoys baggy comfy clothing, can be sports clothing or the brothers old sweater that he left behind. Mostly ignores girls fashion or any fashion for that matter and thinks of shopping to be a absolute chore.
    Tomboy 2
    Wears mostly “emo”/”gothic”/”skatertype” style clothing, making a erratic statement of difference from the average girl. Still in to fashion and “racing”just opposite of what most media present in style at the moment.
    Tomboy 3
    Still into girls fashion just not as “up to date” or as girly. May wear unisex “look” clothing. As well as more of the sporty fashion style.
    Tomboy 4
    Into fashion, just the guys fashion. whatever is in fashion with guys at the moment their wearing. Guys still have a fashion, just not as set as girls fashion.
    Tomboy 4 and a half
    This may still be in the tomboy 4 but “Asia” tomboy fashion is also different category. The style is still boys fashion but it is more of a “tailored” look i guess thats you could call it. could also be considered more of a artsy type guy fashion. And they are definitely aware of fashion.
    Again this is a Fashion not Personality. Behavior and personality you would have to meet, greet, get to know the actual person, know their culture, the environment they live in/grew up in, family history/race, beliefs ext. Though tomboys can be stereotyped and categorized, what is not? who is not? it is impossible.
    To say that tomboys are generally uninterested into fashion bugs me a bit. i’m enjoy asian tomboy fashion thats probably why…….Any how just a mini comment that you can ignore. Interesting post though Heartiste you got a lot of people talking.

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    • I’m enjoy, wow bad english …. should say interested to asia’s tomboy fashion, really interested into asia’s fashion industry all together….Just realized how long that comment was after posting wow….

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