Low Energy Younger Women

A lot of older men in the comments of this blog complain that they find the frivolity, shit testing and emotional demands of younger women too frustrating to tolerate, so they nix entire groups of women from their target designation list. As one who has dated plenty of crazy whimsical women and enjoyed their company, I can’t wholly commiserate with these men who avoid younger women, but I can understand the reason for their gripes. Compared to women over 30, younger women are a pain in the ass. But they’re also fun and exciting and girlishly feminine and lovesick and sweetly naive and horny and curious and submissive and romantic. And they have perfectly unwrinkled tight asses. There’s your primary trade-off: PITA for PUTA.

However, there is a way around this conundrum. You could date low energy younger women. There is a sizable minority of early to mid-20s women who aren’t high maintenance drama queens. You’ll have to screen for them, but they are out there. They don’t dance on bars or shamelessly flirt, because they find those activities mentally taxing. They won’t constantly shit test because their minds require more peaceful repose than the party girls. They don’t make demands to be entertained because they don’t get easily bored with life. They don’t get antsy sitting still or enduring more than five minutes without male attention because they’re comfortable residing in their own world. They’re certainly cute enough to do all those things, but they don’t because it doesn’t suit their temperament.

The Man Who Was… writes:

I’ve said it before, both the best and the worst younger women like to date older men. On the one hand are the golddiggers and the girls who will indiscriminatly fuck anyone who makes them horny at that moment. On the other hand there are the girls who honestly appreciate your maturity.

But let’s face it the younger a woman is the flakier and more drama laden she is likely to be.

No argument there. Flakiness is very age-dependent. Teens and early 20s girls are the flakiest, then it falls off through the 20s, has a second, but smaller, peak again late 20s up to just past 30, and finally nosedives into and beyond the 30s when no man who isn’t a complete loser will put up with dating a 30+ woman who still flakes. (Sane women intuitively know this, too, which is why older women are so agreeable when you first meet them.)

Flakiness is just another term for having a wealth of options. Or, in the case of the 30 year old single careerist, having a mental breakdown. A woman of 21 simply has more options in the dating market than her older self at 31, and vastly more options than her 41 year old self. Finally, at around 50 years old for most women, their options dwindle to whatever man will have them. Which is close to zero. Paging Naomi Wolf…

So a flake is really just a hindbrain burp from a hot young woman who is beset with male admiration. She flakes because she is uncertain about choosing from amongst many potential suitors. It’s the beautiful agony of nearly limitless choice within a limited time frame.

Here’s another good thing about dating low energy younger women: they age slower than their attention whore counterparts. This must be related to a telomere sparing metabolic thing. Corollary: If you want to know how well your girlfriend will hold up should you decide to marry her, ask her when she hit puberty. In my observation, late bloomers are also late wilters.

The downside to dating low energy younger women? Your game will inevitably… ahem… soften. You need those dramatic hamster chicks to keep your game in tip top shape.

“I am a wiltin’ flowaahhh.”
– Naomi Wolf in her terrifying nightmares





Comments


  1. This is a little vague. How to determine ahead of time whether the low energy as described in this post translates to low energy in the bedroom? In which case it isn’t worth the effort if she’s going to be uncreative or just lay there like a log. We like the flirty, energetic women for a reason: they’re generally more fun in bed.

    And you certainly don’t want a girl who is low energy in her overall approach to life. Get ensnared with someone like that and she’s liable to turn you into a boring, incurious couch potato just like her. Then, as the end of the post warns, goodbye to your game skillz.

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  2. Yep, all true!

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  3. on May 31, 2011 at 7:57 pm Basil Ransom

    The difference in flakiness between a 20 year old and a 23 year old isn’t because the 20 yo is hotter. She’s more attached to her friends and more cagey about meeting up with men. She’s not flaking on you to meet up with a hotter guy – she just gets cold feet VERY easily.

    Try separating a college freshman from her friends, it’s a fools errand 80%+ of the time. Saying yes to a man in her mind means leaving, thus rejecting, her friends. By the time she’s a junior, it’s expected that her friends will abandon her to hook up with a cute guy.

    Above is only for non-social circle game.

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  4. on May 31, 2011 at 8:00 pm Basil Ransom

    Again with the college example, the female senior is less flaky, yet she has way more options – knows more people, can go to bars easily, knows dozens of frat guys if she’s Greek, etc. The inter-age differences in flakiness, for say, 18-24, aren’t due to options.

    And low energy chicks tend to be uglier – eg club girls vs girls at the dive bar. And go out less.

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  5. I agree with this, and have come up with pretty good tests against younger women to see if they’re high maintenance or low energy.

    My favorite gal I’ve been seeing for years I met when she was short of 25. She was in great shape (I told her to lose 10 pounds, she did, and now she’s a 9 in body), had a good “real” job, had dated 2 guys seriously since high school so the cock carousel was non-existent, and she spent so much mental energy on work and her one hobby (a sport, keeping her in shape) that she had zero time to shit test me or ever complain. In the years we’ve spent time together, she’s always put out, she’s never once complained or argued with me, and she still shows heavy attraction even though I’m quite her senior (I’m 37).

    The 19 year old I started to see in January is also low energy because of her school life (she’s in Agribusiness School), her part time job (working for an Ag company a few afternoons a week) and her one hobby (a high energy sport). When I tell her I’m seeing her, she drops what she’s doing. In 5 months, she’s never once complained, bitched, or given me any drama, and I’m twice her age, plus she’s surrounded by young guys her age. She’s shit tested me maybe once a month, and it’s always the same type of question: “Why do you see me when you have so many older and wiser women who love you?” That’s an easy one to answer.

    [Editor: Just curious, what’s your answer?]

    In the past 2 years, I’ve gotten rid of the following women, even though they’re typically gorgeous and fun for a fling:

    1. Waitresses (including baristas)
    2. Bartenders
    3. Law school students
    4. Girls who work for minimum wage
    5. Women who grew up in blue collar neighborhoods
    6. Musicians in bands that play at crappy bars and sound terrible
    7. Artists who just push a mouse around
    8. Theater or ballet dancers

    That list of 8 has consistently been THE WORST in terms of shit testing and high drama.

    One area that I disagree with The Chateau in is women who are studying Women’s Studies. They’re hardcore feminazis, but they just love a real hawk of a man. The ones I’ve seen (typically for just 3-6 months) have never tested me or given me drama, and their curriculum of study is extremely time demanding so they’re out of energy for all but sex and the rare cocktail out in public.

    [I don’t disagree with this at all. The hardcore femcunts are often the ones who most crave and love the dominating cock.]

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  6. Gramps: That article is crap. There are way more attractive women in every major city than there are alpha hawk type guys. WAY more. In Chicago, I’d say there are 50 attractive women to every 1 determined guy, easily. So it has nothing to do with age, although at 37 I am way more confident of my abilities than I was at 27 or 17.

    Tinderbox: Low energy doesn’t mean NO energy. A woman who has a lot of free energy pent up will have enough energy for sex, dating, drama and shit testing. A woman with less than free energy still has the need to be attractive and get the pole, so she’ll drop the drama and shit testing because those are lesser needs.

    Basil Ransom: The 19 year old I’m seeing has primarily female friends (a good thing) and I met her at her work (an art supply store in Chicago). I have grey hair on my head (5%) and a ton of white hair in my beard (70%) and she gave me her phone number within 3 minutes of meeting her. When I’ve visited her at her dorm (she lives with 3 other gals in a student door), her closest friends all shit tested me and attempted to cock block me, but SHE defended me and eventually they all became jealous that she’s got a good man who puts a big-ass smile on her face. I don’t believe for a minute that women who are dedicated to school+job+hobby care that much about their social group of females over a guy who knows how to say no to them and poles them like it’s the end of the world.

    Basil Ransom 2: The dive bars in Chicago have plenty of relatively attractive (6-7) women in the 19-23 age group who are low energy enough that you only see them out on Saturday night. They’re not the gals going out on Tuesday night til 4am. The downside is the vast amount of hipster women, so you really have to gauge a woman by her shoes and purse before going in to meet them. I haven’t dated a woman beneath a 6 in a long, long time, and I tend to set my standards in the 7-8 range. I prefer gals 19-23 because they’re just a bundle of fun without the stress of being pre-30s (once they hit 24, they’re pre-30s to me).

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  7. = stoner chicks. Gotta love em (I can smell the inside of her beat up Volvo as I type this). I prefer bong hits of some OG and fingerbanging on the IKEA couch whilst DVDs of Sunny is playing in the background of her dark loft to waiting in line to cross some velvet rope of the happenin new douchebag dance club, but that’s just me.

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  8. If you want to know how a young woman will age,
    try to get a look at her mother, if practical. Also,
    find out the mother’s age, if possible.

    Odds are, the daughter will follow a similar path,
    unless there is something that makes it obvious that
    it is not, e.g. the mother having some horrible
    disease that is not particularly hereditary.

    Thor
    [Editor: Have you ever dated a really cute chick whose mother was hideous? I have, and lemme tell ya, it gives a man pause. You’re standing there, comparing the two and thinking ‘jesus, is she really gonna turn into this in twenty years? how is that even possible?’]

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  9. I think more young women should date significantly older men. It is the ones that are close to your own age that give you trouble and act like you are lucky to be with them.

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  10. [Editor: Just curious, what’s your answer?]

    Depends on the gal’s age, honestly. If she’s got an amazing body, the answer is always to grab her ass and smile. I’ve heard that shit test from plenty of women, mostly because I don’t hide who I’m seeing from anyone — all my life is on the web somewhere (Facebook, mostly) and if they can’t deal with it, they’re welcome to stop initiating texts or phone calls with me. If they’re not 22 with a perfect ass, a non-verbal like pulling their hair back and smiling is good enough, and if I need to give a verbal, it’ll be an ass smack or a hair pull and me saying “Because most girls don’t have a good ass/because most girls snap in half when I do this/etc”.

    [I don’t disagree with this at all. The hardcore femcunts are often the ones who most crave and love the dominating cock.]

    Touché, although by “The Chateau” I mean this place and its readers, not Roissy/Heartiste.

    [Editor: Have you ever dated a really cute chick whose mother was hideous? I have, and lemme tell ya, it gives a man pause. You’re standing there, comparing the two and thinking ‘jesus, is she really gonna turn into this in twenty years? how is that even possible?’]

    The 28 year old I’ve been seeing for 3 years has a hideous family in general: her mom is probably 250 pounds, her sister is pushing 300, and all of her family are Twinkies eaters for breakfast. When I told her she was 10 pounds too heavy to be considered hot enough for me to be seen with in public, she lost that weight without complaint (cutting out grains was all it took) and now she loves her body and she loves me BECAUSE I was honest to tell her that 120 pounds on her frame was too much. She was fat in high school (thankfully no stretch marks), and I’m fairly sure she’ll never bloat up like her mom, but it’s not like I’m marrying her. I’ve dumped women for gaining too much weight, and I’m honest about my weightism: I don’t date women who don’t live healthy lives.

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  11. on May 31, 2011 at 8:27 pm driveallnight

    I personally don’t find twenty-somethings that difficult to deal with. They’re sometimes dramatic and silly, but also easily duped.

    (Oops, easily gamed, not “duped.” That’s what I meant.)

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  12. It also helps that they need money to buy their parents a house.

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  13. [Editor: Have you ever dated a really cute chick whose mother was hideous? I have, and lemme tell ya, it gives a man pause. You’re standing there, comparing the two and thinking ‘jesus, is she really gonna turn into this in twenty years? how is that even possible?’]

    This puzzles me as well.

    And I don’t know the answer to this because I haven’t invested that much time in one girl to find out.

    The mother is ugly, fat, etc. Is the daughter inevitable?

    [Editor: Sadly, tragically, most of the time the daughter will follow the same trajectory. But a few hot chicks take after their fathers biochemically, and tend to partly avoid their mothers’ fates.]

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  14. My comment was directed at driveallnight.

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  15. Michel The mother is ugly, fat, etc. Is the daughter inevitable?

    No. The key is to find a gal who was a little heavy in high school, but not actually obese, who worked hard in college to lose weight, and has a family of fat people who they don’t want to become, especially if the gal has a good solid job and the rest of the family works at Wal*Mart. I have a few female friends who are in their 30s and 40s who are slim and still relatively hot but have grotesque fat relatives, and their two commitments in life are to never get fat, and to never be blue collar. I’d say I know at least 10 women in this group, and I think it IS possible to date younger gals who rise up to that same mindset, it’s just a LOT harder than dating a gal whose parents are both marathon runners and skinny.

    [Editor: Interesting you mention this dynamic. I know a hot slender babe whose entire family is morbidly obese. She must have been scared slim.]

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  16. on May 31, 2011 at 8:36 pm driveallnight

    Lol. Lara, I wouldn’t buy a girl a house anymore than I’d marry her.

    Nice try, though. Share your Ben and Jerry’s with me?

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  17. on May 31, 2011 at 8:40 pm From the can

    Paraphrase: “the hot ones will keep your game tight”. Applicable to menz and wimminz. Also explains why success begets success.

    Been reading this friggin blog too long. Still learning.

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  18. on May 31, 2011 at 9:16 pm CatoRenasci

    Checking the mother out to see how the daughter will age is ancient wisdom. I’d qualify it by adding that you should, if possible, see what the mother looked like in her youth. (high school and college yearbooks can be helpful here – wedding pictures around the house are unlikely to be representative) If the mother looked a lot like the daughter does now, chances are high daughter will turn out the same way. On the other hand, if the daughter doesn’t look at all like the mother – different body type, coloring, etc., then the mother isn’t likely the best guide.

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  19. Have you ever dated a really cute chick whose mother was hideous? I have, and lemme tell ya, it gives a man pause. You’re standing there, comparing the two and thinking ‘jesus, is she really gonna turn into this in twenty years? how is that even possible?’

    lolzzllzzolzlolzlolzzllzzolzlolzlolzzllzzolzlolz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    This kinda thing really stands out the older a man gets. I never had these moments of pause when I was in my 20’s. But now, christ you’ll be looking at your date and you’ll see Penelope Cruz but then you look at her mother and you’ll see a woman who looks like she just chased a fart through a bucket of nails.

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  20. Being high energy can work against the young girls too. You can use their endless partying, flirting, etc. as an excuse to not spend as much time with them as they would like you to. (Example: “No, I’m sick of those clubs, I’m going to stay home tonight and drink with my friends. But you go do what you want.”) You’ll often find they suddenly don’t want to spend quite so many nights out living the fast life. Or, if they do, so much the better: they’ll inevitably come crawling into your bed around 2am.

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  21. on May 31, 2011 at 10:33 pm College Grad

    Damn that’s disheartening but true. I decided awhile ago I couldn’t marry or be with someone low energy for a long period of time. I think high energy religious girls are a decent alternative though, conscientious and loyal if your game is good.

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  22. on May 31, 2011 at 10:38 pm Reeducation

    Hate the site.

    Found it on accident (interestingly while trying to look for advice on me dating a single mom) and have been following along for about a year now.

    Personally, I think low energy girls are more loyal and will end up loving you more than high maintenance girls. Maybe because the emotional highs you give them surpass anything else in their life.

    Found this today as well…

    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/31/my-take-there%E2%80%99s-nothing-brief-about-a-hookup/?hpt=hp_bn8

    Further confirms with science things that regular readers of this site already know, such as women with many sexual partners are less likely to be faithful. These women are simply “addicted” to too many cocks.

    Keep the education of men coming.

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  23. High energy chicks age bad because:

    They eat shitty food and try to treadmill it all off.
    They tan.
    They don’t get enough sleep.
    They take too many cocks.
    They drink more alcohol.
    Excessive hair dying.
    Too much makeup and harsh cleansers.

    In other words, they age faster. Fun to bang until they hit the wall. Also ‘splains why some fugly moms have hot daughters. They were hot once and took the alpha cock.

    It starts with the blotched sunned skin, fat upper arms, the muffin top starts to grow. We start to see the rounding of the thighs, the droop of the every expanding butt.

    Oh, how nature is cruel but doubly so to the womenfolk.

    Guys, follow the same advice. Keep yourself healthy and vagina will teleport star trek style right on your Anthony Weiner.

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  24. on May 31, 2011 at 10:55 pm Alice Green

    We can see more and more stars and people have a new kind of love with man(woman)!!! have you ever heard about it !!this may be a fashion one !! I have joined a group which is a group for younger man and older woman !! I have make many friends here!! I also find my love here!! he is 7 years younger than me ! he is charming and handsome!! I want to say!! when you go to —CougarChats C O M—- !! age becomes just a number!!!why not to have a try!!

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  25. Reading this post makes me feel like Naomi Wolf.

    Then I realize I’m not Naomi Wolf and I feel better.

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  26. on May 31, 2011 at 11:00 pm whorefinder

    Nice Naomi Wolf references. That bitch deserves it.

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  27. “Keep yourself healthy and vagina will teleport star trek style right on your Anthony Weiner.”

    haha. quote of the day.

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  28. I fond that Russian and German women, while hot when young, tend to blimp out. if they get happily hitched, they fatten up fast- by 40 they’re unfuckable.

    The shock is that they’re so hot when young, and so lardy when just a little older.

    It’s that Babooshka thing.

    The ones who stay thin are often the first to bail when they see advantage. Guys I know who married these women either got fat little hard-assed mommas or the sweet thin girlfriends turned into thin, hard-assed gold-digging status-obsessed Russian wife whores.

    Sad, because until about 27 they tend to be scorching.

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  29. Hungarians are particularly bad this way. They pork out something awful, unless they’re chain smokers. In which case they’re putrid anyway.

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  30. on May 31, 2011 at 11:30 pm whorefinder

    Story time: you’ve all heard of Coyote Ugly, the bar in New York City? Many of you who are above 25 remember there was movie about it, which, unfortunately, turned out to be a beta-male-chick-flick as opposed to the semi-porno it should have been. Such a waste…

    Anyway, I live in NYC, and have frequented the bar many times over the last 10 years or so. And this is the sad story.

    You see, there’s a redheaded bartender who’s worked there since I started going. We’ve chatted a few times over the years, but nothing more–like a good bartender, she remembers my face when I come in, but she wouldn’t know me from Adam if I walked by on the street.
    Now, we’re the same age. I started going around age 22, which was, coincidentally, the same year she started working there.
    Back then, I couldn’t buy a date. A beta at heart, I marveled at the hot women at Coyote Ugly (hot in a roadhouse skank way) shaking their asses all over the place. The redhead, at the time, was in her physical prime. While not the best looking, her body was banging: slim, curvy, and elastic. She gave off that crazy-fuck vibe like something else. Danced like a motherfucker, looked like a poor man’s angel.
    Now I know she was a skank, because each time I moseyed in, I saw a new guy with her. He’d sit down the end of the bar, bored, but occasionally, when no one was looking, she’d give him a kiss. In my early-to-mid 20’s, sad to say, I closed out Coyote Ugly and other bars way too often, and yet still went home alone to punch the clown. And the redhead would, monthly, be leaving with a new dude to get fucked by.
    As I grew, matured, and, most importantly, developed game, I actually started to have success with women, and places like Coyote Ugly and strip clubs became distant memories for me, only to be visited for nostalgia, boredom, or shits-and-giggles when buddies are in town. I can pick up a hotter woman now much easier than spending $60-$100 to watch a whorish one be a cocktease to me and feed me bullshit. This is what game does—changes your perspective on everything, makes you disdain what you once would have given an arm for.
    Those times I did roll into Coyote Ugly, the redhead would invariably be around. I found out from a bouncer she eventually became the bar manager, hence her hanging around even if not working behind the bar. But her look changed, too.
    Years of hard drinking (Coyote girls often drink with the guys, although they invariably will get you to drink way more than them to push up your bill) and smoking outside gave her deposits of fat on her once-pristine body. Years of having a new cock every night left her face haggard, old, and tired, even when she faked a smile. Years of bad food from late night shit shops left her unable to speedplow through dance routines on the bar she once cut like a young farmer in summer. Years of screaming to the bar to “make some noise” and one too many bummed nicotine sticks left her voice low, deep, and gravelly—like the welfare queens you might hear on COPS.
    She knew it, too. When she began, she dressed in a bikini top and short, short shorts almost every time I saw her (or ass-tight leather pants). Then, as she withered, she dressed more conservatively (at least for a wannabe roadhouse bar)—longer shorts and looser pants, to the point her tops were more “Jersey Girl out in the 1980’s” than Coyote Ugly. She took to wearing a short sleeve button down when going out for a smoke and then “forgetting” to take it off behind the bar. She wasn’t in denial—just trying to hide Father Time’s and Mother Bad Decision’s abusive marks.
    I went in there the other night with a 25 year old Russian hottie I’m banging, for the first time in a year. And saw the redhead. Now 31, her face is permanently jowly from the screaming, nicotine, fatty food, and cocks. She’s well on her way to obesity, and doesn’t even bartend any more, even as a fill in—just a manager. Her once strawberry red hair, which was light and airy, is now stringy, greasy, and worn from one too many guys yanking on it. She even has stretch marks—apparently, she had a kid.
    When I walked in with hottie, she was sitting at the edge of the bar, encouraging the new girls to act as she did once, when spring was in her step. She looked up at me and her eyes flickered two painful emotions: recognition of my face, and shame. She was shamed by me, a man who once probably openly salivated at her but was too shy to do anything about it, standing there, now confident, brazen, and cocksure, arm around the waist of a girl ten times hotter than her—and also knowing that I remembered her when she could stop a clock. Now, the only thing that stops for her is a bus.

    Long story. I think I’ll cross post at my site.

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  31. Roissy, you should make a list of questions to ask that allow you to screen women.

    The way women talk about their exes, things that interest them besides male attention, and how they react when you use the word “slut” are all very good giveaways.

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  32. I’m taking a class with an Asian MILF (probably about 40, was obviously smokin’ in her youth). Today she gave us a deep thought:

    “why the great turtle live so long? because it move so slowly, and it enjoy every step”

    Even as a young attractive guy with three hot girlfriends, I have to admit the MILF is alluring.

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  33. Low Energy girls probably need to eat more meat…get that iron up! Yo!

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  34. on June 1, 2011 at 1:00 am Emma the Emo

    Sounds almost like you’re talking about introverts, not low energy women. They look low energy because too much partying and contact with large groups of people drain them of energy, and they don’t need much external stimuli to avoid boredom. I don’t think it means they’ll be boring in the bedroom, but they’ll need space from time to time. But so will you, so no problem there.

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  35. Whorefinder,

    I love you. Shit like that (and in those words) should be taught in the same class where they teach boys about nocturnal emissions. Goddamn funny, yet sad. But most importantly, true.

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  36. @A.B. Dada (Awesome advice)

    What’s do I do with mentally mature women (typically financially independent with/without children).

    I’m 29 (2 years out of college), some women who are financially independent and mentally mature have demonstrated interest (29-40).

    These women don’t put up with rebellious behavior and especially ego negatives (they go silent on ego negs). I think its because they have already had experiences with players and in dealing with rebellious children. One girl that showed interest in me told me I behaved just like her brother, in a negative sense. She really liked me, I could tell, but after a light hearted shit test she never talked to me again, nor have I tried to contact her.

    I’m trying the same strategies that work with insecure younger women in high school (early college) and they don’t work on these women.

    These women are typically over worked, and desperately seeking companionship. In high school this translated to lots of fun and not LJBF. These type of women I usually can give them a very strong emotional pull, toward me. I shit test to check how strong my emotional pull is. However with these mentally mature women, It means I destroy the friendship.

    What do I do?

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  37. We should probably discuss the different strategies with regard to:

    insecure women vs mentally mature women.

    Insecure women are submissive and allow one to control them, once they are emotionally attached. When they are emotionally attached, you can do no wrong. These women are a dream come true. I don’t know how long this can last.

    Mentally mature women do not allow themselves to be controlled by rebellion or ego negatives. They see through the bull shit and ignore it. If you piss them off they stop talking to you.

    What do I do with these mature women?

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  38. @collegeboy stated:
    These type of women I usually can give them a very strong emotional pull, toward me. I shit test to check how strong my emotional pull is. However with these mentally mature women, It means I destroy the friendship.

    By this I meant that I play some small rebellion to check whether she will let me do whatever I want. Or I tease that I will do something that she specifically doesn’t want me to do. Her reaction should be submissive, not mad. That would indicate that I am in control.

    The only other thing I do is compete and demonstrate cheating abilities. That is I get what I want by cheating, and she should put up with that. This is what destroyed my friendship with a mature woman.

    And this mature woman ignored my attempts for rebellion. despite being very interested in me. She even had the sparkle in her eyes when she first saw me.

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  39. @collegeboy

    The basic idea that I want to get across to the women I play with is:

    I always get what I want.

    They can give it to me when I ask nicely or I’ll take it through rebellion, competition (and cheating if necessary).

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  40. @collegeboy

    The basic idea that I want to get across to the women I play with is:

    I always get what I want.

    They can give it to me when I ask nicely or I’ll take it through rebellion, competition (and cheating if necessary).

    Or I will just walk away, since it is a one way relationship where she gets what she wants, but I don’t get what I want.

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  41. @collegeboy

    The basic idea that I want to get across to the women I play with is:

    I always get what I want.

    They can give it to me when I ask nicely or I’ll take it through rebellion, competition (and cheating if necessary).

    Or I will just walk away, since it is a one way relationship where she gets what she wants, but I don’t get what I want.

    or I’ll compromise if she gives me what I want. But I still get what I want.

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  42. on June 1, 2011 at 3:00 am The Specimen

    @ Whorefinder – great story. Tragic.

    So a question for the commentariat. For those that hit the wall hard, is the fading of their beauty a gradual thing that occurs over a number of years, or is it pretty sudden where their body changes over a period of a few months? So far, I’m only old enough to have seen women ruined by pregnancy. Or is it pregnancy that takes the biggest toll on a woman’s looks?

    Also when we’re talking about high energy women being more of a handful are we talking about high energy in general, or the things she decides to expend her energy on? A woman who goes clubbing every night is going to be a lot different from a woman who’s active but spends her time doing things like yoga classes, grabbing brunch/dinner with her girlfriends, and participating in organizations.

    Like


  43. @collegeboy

    unless she’s shit-testing you, why shit-test her with the whole ‘i get what a want’ attitude / behaviour?

    what kind of woman are you referring to by ‘mature-minded’? the kind that doesn’t need shit-testing, i.e. a good girl? (rare breed heh)

    Like


  44. (btw when i say ‘doesn’t need shit-testing’ i mean doesn’t shit-test you much *relative* to most hot /cute girls… all lookers dish out some)

    Like


  45. In other words – you don’t want to use terms like good girls/ bad girls and invent terms – low energy girls/high energy girls.

    However there is something that reminds of ancient wisdom. In old times when women were less corrupt – woman’s energy was associated with water (slow but enduring, flowing down low) while man’s energy was associated with fire (fast but fading, reaching up high). The yin and yang thing. Fire evaporates water and water extinguishes fire – the correct balance needed et cetera.

    The modern high energy girls are ones who have too much of a fire they shouldn’t have. Likewise betas are men who are like water too much.

    I would say – be like a fire and seek a girl who is like water.

    These archetypical images are easier to spot in real life then abstract terms like high/low energy IMHO.

    Like


  46. on June 1, 2011 at 4:04 am UraniumGoesUp

    whorefinder:

    Your post is weird.

    What did you want this bartender to do? Pick you of the thousands of bar patrons and love you? That’s a teenage girl fantasy of having the rock star see you in the crowd and go “she’s the one.”

    You sound like Reese Witherspoons character in Sweet Home Alabama when she (the high-powered NYC cunt) says to the girl “You have a baby in a bar??”

    This bartender never rejected you, always treated you with courtesy, did her job and did it well in the fact that you remember her fondly.

    And yet…10 years later…You feel the need to dance on her baby weight (btw I just checked the coyote ugly photos…some need to lose weight but they are still pretty? So what’s your problem?)

    You are merely peaking 10 years after she did. Enjoy your time whoring it up with Game (and Russians!) as she enjoyed hers and get over your beta issues.

    I add a new principle to game here and now…..

    Who gives a fuck about comparing yourself to other people? A true alpha doesn’t.

    Like


  47. @uraniumgoesup

    Whorefinder’s essay above was worthy of publication in New Yorker Magazine or any of the major media that focuses on good essay writing. No, it wasn’t saying the redhead should have picked him when she was 20, but it was saying that she falsely thought at 20 that her status over him and most men would somehow always be higher instead of falling off sharply around age 24.

    This is common sense to women in Eastern Europe and Russia, who stop flaking around age 21, which leaves some time to find a good husband while still being considered in their prime.

    The story of the redhead also shows that few women should delude themselves into thinking they will have continued status over men their own age.

    Whorefinder is just starting to have a sex life while a woman his own age, who had once been hot, may as well be retired. QED: She should have looked for a serious relationship with an older man 10 years ago.

    Such an essay would never find its way into the major media, which will NEVER criticize young women for being irrational and flaky in their youth but will criticize men for wanting attractive young women.

    Like


  48. Interesting post, as the “low energy younger woman” seems to describe exactly the sort of girl that really turns me on. I find them a lot more attractive than the high-energy “model-like” club chicks who most guys seem to go crazy for, not least because they tend to dress in a way that’s feminine yet not “slutty” and they tend to have at least some individuality to them rather than looking like the 30 other blondes in heels and the standard-issue black miniskirt.

    Unfortunately these girls are harder to meet and pull: they generally don’t go to clubs except for special occasions and tend to spend their evenings studying or hanging out with a small group watching a movie or at a quiet house party or whatever; they’re more shy, at least around people they don’t know, so it can be hard to get into a good conversation, and they sometimes even come across as boring because of this; they don’t respond to high-energy game and are put off by guys who come across as playerish or assholeish, yet a more toned-down nice-guy game just leads to friends zone; a lot are in, or are looking for, a serious relationship and think same-night lays are “for sluts”.

    I might be KJing here but I guess for the type of girl I describe, the sort of game necessary would be “calm and confident” rather than “high energy and social”: getting into a good conversation but keeping some “spark” to it and not letting it get into platonic territory. So not being an asshole yet not being a beta either; being a decent, nice person yet confident and going for what you want. Just my guess, and much easier said than done.

    Like


  49. I had been planning to write a comment today saying that the subject of Flaking is the most important PUA subject of them all. All other aspects of pickup are easy compared to having one’s phone calls and texts completely ignored by an 18 year old 9 or 10 thirty years younger than yourself who’d been easy to deal with in person but suddenly changed when communication turned to the electronic realm.

    A month ago I decided to finally get serious about dealing only with 10s. If I’m going to get someone pregnant and have her raise a child for me, I want her to be the very best, and I was convinced in an argument on this forum last month that I ought to get a 10 pregnant and bear a child for me in the next few years if it’s ever going to happen (I’m already a senior citizen).

    In that time I number closed 3 of these (technically, one was introduced to me by a friend). All were 18. I didn’t want them to be 18. It’s just that the 10s I craved and chose to open happened to all be 18. This is not my fault or the fault of any man, no matter how old he is. Men can’t help being attracted to whom they are attracted to.

    All three seriously flaked on me.

    I could have just realized that I’d gone for a bridge too far, that the women who are better looking than 99% of their peers (10s) who are thirty years younger are now well out of range.

    But I know they do the same thing to guys their own age.

    So I struck a line of being polite but persistent in the face of getting what most men would consider inhuman ignorance (a woman who is seriously not interested in a guy needs to just tell him that). Some of my texts discussed how I knew they had tons of options but a limited amount of time to exercise those options. I’ve learned that a man has no choice but to discuss evolutionary biology with women so it’s all out in the open.

    I texted like I expected to see them when whatever problem was bothering them ended. I was persistent and polite as I pretended that there must be something serious going on in their lives, while not texting too much.

    I ended up ‘accidentally’ meeting one of these women in person and overcame the flaking that way.

    My texting was a sort of vulnerability game. It came across as beta but, since I’d been alpha in getting the phone numbers, it provided enough balance that convinced one woman to stop the bad behavior.

    She called me last night after I’d stopped texting for two days and invited me to meet her and her 3 roommates immediately. They’d been chatting about men and the subject of the foreign guy who kept texting her had intrigued the roommates. The confidence and friendliness of my texts, in the face of getting no answers, had defeated a major shit test. The roommates really liked me (I look young and stay in shape) and she took the initiative to briefly kiss close on the mouth when I left.

    I will have to meet the 3rd flaker in person again if there will ever be a chance with her. Some of my texts to her that were never answered got bitter; I made the mistake of implying that an 18 year old hottie should be held to standards of character that other human beings are called to hold to. That, of course, is a mistake. 18 year old hotties have every right to behave like total assholes with men and we’re supposed to forgive them.

    But, believe me, it’s worth it to ignore the flaking of an 18 year old as long as it eventually stops.

    So rules to stop flaking:

    1) Try to live in an area where people keep meeting each other in person often enough that a woman can’t ignore you simply by not taking calls or answering texts. There are plenty of sub-cultures where it’s OK for a man to go directly to where she’s at if there seems to be an electronic communication problem (in the US that would include resort towns but most of the US has a mentally sick anti-stalker mentality).

    2) Talk about evolutionary biology. If an 18 year old asks you why you aren’t trying to meet a 25 year old, bluntly tell her it’s because she’s hotter if only temporarily so. If she can’t handle the truth, she’s been ruined by feminism and isn’t worth knowing anyway. Believe me, non-feminist women can be told the truth about their limited shelf life as hotties.

    3) Be persistent. Don’t assume the flaking is anything more than a shit test. Assume that, if she wasn’t interested, she’d tell you.

    Feminists hate it when men say online that it’s OK to assume a woman might be still interested if she doesn’t directly say she isn’t. Feminists want women to be able to reject men via flaking itself.

    Men need to all assume that flaking is just a shit test. This will force women to more directly reject men when they are really not interested.

    4) Be polite, not bitter. Don’t assume that an 18 year old knows or cares about whether or not she has good character. She’s got enormous power and it’s a better idea to explain to her why she’s got that power and how temporary it is, than to try to get her to behave like a normal human being who cares about other’s feelings.

    I’d like to see others give tips on what they’ve done that stops flaking. It’s the toughest of all PUA subjects.

    I consider myself damned lucky that I got called to meet those roommates last night.

    I’m still not sure what I’d done correctly.

    Like


  50. on June 1, 2011 at 7:05 am UraniumGoesUp

    Jerry….

    I totally disagree.

    What did the bartender do at age 20 that said to Whorefinder “she falsely thought at 20 that her status over him and most men would somehow always be higher”

    Like what Explicity did she do to him?

    She just didn’t date him. Maybe she was a template girl, and he didn’t fit her template. (brown hair versus blonde hair) It’s nothing personal against WhoreFinder.

    “The story of the redhead also shows that few women should delude themselves into thinking they will have continued status over men their own age.”

    She was a Bartender! I highly doubt even in her PRIME she thought she was on equal footing to a man with a good university degree. For all WhoreFinder knows the girl could indeed be married to a man of similar social standing/education who she Fits With, even if he isn’t Mr. Richy Rich with a degree on the wall.

    I could understand WhoreFinder’s post if this girl genuinly rejected him with a mean statement and haughty laugh and then grabbed an alpha and made out with the guy in front of him.

    Then WhoreFinder goes back and sees that she’s been dumped by the Alpha while he’s turned into Mr. Butterfly.

    Serves her right!

    But that’s not what happened. She was just a working girl in a bar doing her job to pay her bills.

    It’s WhoreFinder’s Own Fault for letting her beauty and youth intimidate him for so long, and then turning him into a weird gloaty 30 something year old who feels the need to put down women his own age because of past rejection.

    Game is about finding women you want to sleep with and sleeping with them, dating them, and maybe for some dudes marrying them.

    It’s not about putting women down when they didn’t do anything bad to you.

    Like


  51. @UraniumGoesUp

    You made some excellent points.

    It’s not like he described her flaking on guys she’d given her number to and he did admit that he never swung the bat (but I can see her having done lots of the above to really decent guys from her own class whom she’d possibly now want another chance with).

    It’s unfair for good women to lose their sexual market value along with the ones who truly abused men in their youth.

    I prefer to live in a culture where women seriously consider themselves old maids if they are still single at 23. It focuses the minds of the youngest women and they stop flaking.

    ——————-

    By the way, when the age of consent goes up to 18, 18 year olds are more likely to flake. Sexual Economics 101

    Like


  52. Proj, I think you have some good points there. I used to be something of a low energy girl back in the day, compared to my friends, at least, who could and would party all night long most nights of the week.
    When I did find the time and motivation to go out (or was more or less gently coerced into it) I would get a lot of male attention, being in my prime and a solid 9 especially among a group of 5-7s (I have a slim hourglass figure with a face that’s sort of quirky-pretty but in no way stunning enough as to be intimidating.)
    I was however very preoccupied with schoolwork&hobbies, just out of my first LTR and not really looking for anyone (not even hookups, I’m an introvert with a low notch-count but high libido and active imagination!), so I found all the attention and pick-up attempts seriously taxing especially since I used to be very shy and socially awkward among strangers even after a few drinks. I think my friends must have somehow enjoyed seeing me squirm and blush and attempt to politely reject all the advances pouring my way. (I suspect the attention I got was useful to them enough times to make getting me to come along a good idea, since a lot of guys were milling about in our vicinity which always gave someone the opportunity to corner an unsuspecting fellow and pounce.)
    Truly nothing was so off-putting (to me, at least) as a guy who was obviously playing a game or seemingly attempting to hide his true nature by being an overly raucous asshole. And there were many, many guys who gave off that vibe.
    As opposed to those types, the man who eventually swept me off my feet was (and still is) a very honest, confident, leader-of-men type alpha who looks quite intimidating but really has a calm and pleasant nature yet still manages to be assertive and dominant in a good-natured way that never feels demeaning. It’s a joy to fulfill his every wish!
    He is generally more high-energy than me, but that’s a good thing since I’ve had to exit my comfort zone so many times being with him that most of my social awkwardness is more or less banished. We’re also well matched in the sexual, IQ and sense of humor departments (we’re both smart enough to know we’re not smart enough to be really smarty-smarts, you know).
    I think low-energy girls could be less easily swayed by the more obvious gaming attempts since they are often introverts and spend a lot of time in introspection = getting to know their own hamsters. Or then my hamster just wants me to believe that. Oh well!

    Like


  53. Younger women are more malleable and capable of being altered to suit the men they are with, particularly if they have demonstrated a strong desire to please and the men have a strong desire to lead. A young man might be altered by the experiences of his youth by having his starry eyes blinded by callous behavior, so too a young woman can have the course of her life altered by the behaviors of the man she loves.

    If we agree that young women create the beasts in men through the insensitive, flippancy of youth we must also agree that men create disposable whores when they decide to prey on a malleable young girl whose deepest instincts urge her to find and please a man worthy of such attention.

    The difference is that men, as the natural builders, protectors and governors of civilization have an additional weapon in their arsenol….the ability to destroy AND build on stronger foundations. Young women are less interested in conquering so much as testing strengths and weaknesses…when they’ve chosen to attach themselves to a foundation which they percieve as being stronger the loss of that foundation will crumble the girl. My comfort is I think leaders of men abhor destruction for it’s own sake and will attempt to rebuild despite the beast within.

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  54. Not sure if “low energy” is the thing to look for, more like introversion over extraversion in the Myers-Briggs typology. Agree that introverts have had a significantly lesser tendency to flake, but I think they just screen differently.

    I’ve been thinking a lot about the “age limits” this blog often brings up, and I’m starting to think that there’s a significant societal element in them. In Finland most students study for a master’s degree, university entrance exams are generally highly competitive (high possibility of a year or two lost, there), and kids start school a year later than in the U.S. (IIRC). My take is that this actually extends the famous cock carousel period significantly, and the “last call” happens closer to 35 than 30. This being even more out of touch with biology, is probably going to lead into a fuckload of trouble in the near future…

    Like


  55. Also, the forced wealth transfers in Scandinavia make young women that much less interested in the very older guys whose money is being taken for those transfers (in a perfect socialist state, young women would at least go up to guys they think are contributing and say “thank you for supporting me through college”).

    Socialism is against the sexual interests of all producers.

    Like


  56. First-time poster here.

    I’ve always been attracted to women who have Bette Davis or Angelina Jolie-type eyes and that’s been a pretty decent indicator for me of this low-energy profile.

    These are women who look facially mature for their ages even as adolescents (See, for example, the youngest female child in Game of Thrones). It also tends to be more common through eastern europe where young women’s eyes seem to look slightly “wearier,”, though even here in Seoul, you sometimes see the telltale bulginess or slight bags under the eyes.

    Maybe my experience is purely coincidental. I’ve always rationalized it as these girls being told that they look “old” rather than “young” for their ages and this resulting in a corresponding leap in their behavioral maturity. Also, the “second-prettiest” girl syndrome may be at work in causing them to differentiate their behavior.

    Thoughts?

    Like


  57. @ Eve

    The malleabilty of a women is not a function of time, rather than a function of cocks she has had before.

    I agree that callous players and flaky whores create each other trough.

    Like


  58. I believe that male family and friends have more to do with a woman’s early development than relative strangers who try to bone her, or even succeed in it. Granted, having good male role models in her life will bot give her a more balanced perspective and keep her numbers relatively low at the same time, but even girls who go astray usually find their way back to sanity if they have strong but positive men around.

    That’s half of what led me here when I was confused. I don’t think I’d have thought of it, and then been able to keep digging for information even while I was being insulted, if it hadn’t been for my father. He’s the one who taught me about personal responsibility, and that if things are going wrong for me, the problem is me.

    He might have been a little too unaware and old fashioned to explain to me exactly what the problem was, but he did pressure me to figure it out. He wants me to be happy and not brainwashed.

    Girls really need a Daddies. If they have a good one, they know how to relate to men and don’t really need the drama. The exploration of a new guy and companionship with a stable partner is exciting enough.

    Like


  59. Daigoro, the “weariness” as opposed to a coked out look in the eye comes from being actually concerned about others, and understanding that the world does not revolve around them.

    One hopes that it comes from a realist upbringing, but it doesn’t always. Sometimes early traumas that, despite not being the girl’s fault, will take a professional to fix in a timely manner, give that look. They’re like a spider who wears the mask of a fragile flower.

    So be careful regardless.

    Like


  60. @Jerry

    Good point – generally even the ones “in the know” simply consider the transfer-of-wealth system to enable women to pick those “outlaw bikers”, since there is no need for a provider (mostly among the blue collar women), but it does have further implications such as the one you highlighted.

    Like


  61. on June 1, 2011 at 9:43 am A. Nonny.mous

    @UraniumGoesUp
    @ Jerry

    Whorefinder’s essay wasn’t about “getting back” at the formerly hot bartender. it was about pointing out two facts:

    1) Time is much swifter and crueller to women;

    and

    2) A woman who makes poor sexual and social decisions pays the price very quickly.

    There was no bitterness in his writing, only sadness. He probably wishes the bartender was still hot now that he has the gumption and game to ask her out. Unfortunately, she skanked it up while he was learning. The irony is they both started off young and naive (presumably), but while he’s grown into something better, she’s fallen into something worse.

    It’s a warning lesson to young women–that the feminist lie about acting like a man only brings bad news to a woman.

    Paging Naomi Wolf….

    Like


  62. on June 1, 2011 at 9:44 am CatoRenasci

    Nicole wrote: “Girls really need a Daddies. If they have a good one, they know how to relate to men and don’t really need the drama.”

    That’s certainly true, and, these days far too many girls and young women grow up without their natural father living with their mother. Even if a divorced couple (let alone one that never married) have a reasonably good relationship, the day to day interaction without the baggage of a failed adult relationship is critical to a girls development. There seems to be widespread awareness of how important fathers are for boys, but less appreciation for how critical fathers are for girls.

    There is something critical girls need to learn around puberty about relating to men that can only be conveyed (without creating paranoia) by a man with whom the girl can feel safe: once a girl develops sexually, almost no man is entirely ‘safe’ for her, but the fact that most guys wants to get into her pants (every guy if she’ hot, but young guys will take it anyway they can get it) doesn’t mean she needs to close herself emotionally and be a bitch to every guy she’s not interested in.

    It’s only with a father she’s safe with she can really see the dual nature of men as both predator (as in with her mother) and protector (of her and her mother) is not to be feared, but to be accepted. And handled with care.

    Like


  63. Readership,

    An Alpha father who is in a monogamous relationship, and a father to his daughter, i.e. not always at work, produce (s) daughter(s) of excellent LTR material. Agree or disagree?

    Like


  64. Being high maintenance is a result of upbringing. Beware of princesses, father’s little girl….. i do think some men like princesses. They view it as a challenge, trying to master the art of pleasing. I suppose only betas would be willing.

    Like


  65. on June 1, 2011 at 10:22 am CatoRenasci

    Creating a princess, especially the super-hot, shit-testing, high maintenance, high energy, low empathy bitches reflects high levels of anxiety and insecurity on the part of the father – the epitome of betaville.

    I suppose it is a chicken and egg question, but usually the guy who turns his daughter into a princess married the kind of a girl who turns men into the kind of men who turn girls into creatures like her.

    Like


  66. Good post. The only thing I’m concerned about when dating a low energy girl is the quality of sex is also low energy compared to other girls, On a scale of 0 – 10, I would give it a 5 at most, and they are normally the girls that are shy in bed.
    Oral? Yack!
    Anal? Forgetaboutit.

    The trick is to find a high energy girl that is introverted so she is more focused on developing herself as a person instead of her alcohol problem.

    I suspect that low energy hot girls are the product of two parents that one day lazily copulated while both of them were on a verge of falling asleep. As Chinese call it, the energy put in at the time of sex is very important in the life of a future child, they call it Primordial Chi. No energy and the child will have a low sex drive and a limited passion for life.

    Like


  67. Paul,
    I agree.
    Cato,
    Yes. Any man who thinks it’s cute to have his daughter act like a princess is beta.
    what,
    You don’t seem like much of a princess.

    Like


  68. I am not sure there is a correlation between fathers and a girl being of LTR material. I believe is more what she witness between her parents , grandparents, etc….in the way they relate to each other. Also, how the girl was treated while growing up. The modeling of parents in shaping us is an indicator of future behavior as well as the treatment received. if there were evidence of respect, loyalty, caring, giving, compassion, understanding, the use of empathy, healthy boundaries, limits…..you can imagine what that girl will be like when she grows up. The probability of her being of LTR material has increased.

    hee! hee!…(that’s how I usually end my comments! lol!!)

    Like


  69. on June 1, 2011 at 10:43 am CatoRenasci

    Many (if not most) girls start out shy in bed. Whether they remain that way is largely a function of whether the men who are fucking them know what they’re doing.

    Some girls are naturally comfortable with sexual feelings – start masturbating as young as four or five (true story!) – and others are not.

    Your mission, if you choose to accept it, is to help the shy girl overcome her own inhibitions about how sex makes her feel. Before girl can really let herself go fucking you, she has to be comfortable with her inner slut. It’s the most important gift a man can give a girl.

    Like


  70. Lara,
    Nope! no princesses here. I suppose I COULD act like one just for fun! hahaha!!…

    Like


  71. Whorefinder, excellent writing. Good message to convey to younger guys trying to figure it all out.

    @ UraniumGoesUp, you seem to impute malice or bitterness into Whorefinder’s observation about life. I don’t think his post warrants that.

    Men who observe that time is, as one poster put it, swifter and more cruel towards women relative to men, will frequently be accused of bitterness, malice towards women, etc. (That is a typical reality-dodge of women who want Sex and The City to be a documentary, not a fantasy.) Of course, logic 101 informs us that writer can be filled with bitterness, malice and hate , but still be correct in their observations. Similarly, writers can be filled with love, kindness and charity, and still be pathetically wrong.

    Like


  72. @what

    I am not sure there is a correlation between fathers and a girl being of LTR material.

    and then… she readily confirms it:

    I believe is more what she witness between her parents , grandparents, etc….in the way they relate to each other.

    Was it morning over there where you are? You need some coffee! We love your input though, despite that you laugh like a horse!

    Like


  73. Even as a young attractive guy with three hot girlfriends, I have to admit the MILF is alluring.

    because you haven’t seen her naked.

    turtles are only good for soup.

    Like


  74. @Cadnerd
    “Was it morning over there where you are? You need some coffee! We love your input though, despite that you laugh like a horse!”

    First…I don’t drink coffee and you mean…. I laugh like a pretty, cute little horse?!! hEEE! hEEE!!

    Like


  75. collegeboy
    What’s do I do with mentally mature women (typically financially independent with/without children).

    Mental maturity and financial responsibility isn’t enough to gauge what her value is here.

    These women don’t put up with rebellious behavior and especially ego negatives (they go silent on ego negs).

    Sure they will. If they won’t, they’re undateable because they’ve been “hurt” too much by the vultures who they succumbed to in their youth.

    I think its because they have already had experiences with players and in dealing with rebellious children. One girl that showed interest in me told me I behaved just like her brother, in a negative sense.

    My response: “I think it’s gross that you’re sexually attracted to your brother. Don’t contact me anymore.”

    She really liked me, I could tell, but after a light hearted shit test she never talked to me again, nor have I tried to contact her.

    She didn’t really like you, she invested a tiny amount of time to see if you were worth chasing after. Most guys don’t know that the colder women need hotter attitude from men, not colder.

    I’m trying the same strategies that work with insecure younger women in high school (early college) and they don’t work on these women.

    If the strategy doesn’t work with one age/type of woman, it probably won’t work with another. Use what works for you specifically, but make sure you understand what her inner brain is seeking.

    These women are typically over worked, and desperately seeking companionship. In high school this translated to lots of fun and not LJBF.

    When it comes to the mentally stable, financially responsible but “fucked one too many times by a vulture” women, the key element you seem to be missing is that they really want to do the chasing and digging and figuring you out, but they don’t want to do the fixing or get caught up in lies.

    These type of women I usually can give them a very strong emotional pull, toward me. I shit test to check how strong my emotional pull is. However with these mentally mature women, It means I destroy the friendship.

    Don’t be friends with them. I am only friends with a female if I am not attracted to her from the start. My female friends know this. On the rare chance that something about them changes (usually weight loss), I’ll consider changing things. I never become friends with women I find attractive, that’s just too high school for me.

    If a woman shows signs of interest, I come on fast and strong and get her out for drinks. I absolutely, positively end the night if I sense myself getting bored. Me bored = I don’t want to have sex anyway. If I’m not laughing and having a good time, I’ll swig my drink, pay the tab and leave. She’s an adult, she can find her way home.

    If I AM having a good time, it means she is, too. That’s a pretty easy walk from the bar to her place when we’re both laughing and she’s leaning into me constantly.

    Watch her body language, not the words she says. She lies. They all lies. Their inner brain doesn’t lie, and it tells all through non-verbal cues that you have to be aware of. If the cues aren’t showing, LEAVE. If she asks why, tell her you’re bored and LEAVE.

    Like


  76. on June 1, 2011 at 11:39 am CatoRenasci

    “Even as a young attractive guy with three hot girlfriends, I have to admit the MILF is alluring.”

    You don’t go to the MILF for the body she has now, though it may be better than that of many much younger, but for what she can teach you about sex, and about women and their games. The very awkwardness of most men and women with sex, and our inhibitions around it, are the reason prostitution has flourished since time immemorial.

    One of my most memorable lovers was a 28 year old Argentine widow when I was 19 or 20. I shudder to remember how callow I was, but she took me in hand over a summer and taught me to read a woman’s body in ways I didn’t even know were possible before.

    Like


  77. Introvert girl not equals low energy! There are some low energy girls (tire quickly, love equilibrium, any deviation gives them migraine) and this is often afflicting introverts. But unless she is just a navel gazer, an introvert girl uses the energy to build her depth. It does require energy, so it is not available for external matters as much. The apparent lack of energy is not, thusly, what it may seem on the surface. It is just energy used in other ways than inane pursuits of a “high energy girl” with a depth of a sheet of paper.

    As for introvert girl and sex, she can be highly energetic in a LTR, which may be rewarding as she does not lend herself to pretense. What you see is what you get. If she is not from overly uptight environment, she would do whatever she can to please you.

    This applies mostly to mild introverts, the heavy introverts are generally energy vampires and often are fucked up in some ways (borderline schizo, chronic depression, MD and such). Avoid. Don’t succumb to urge to fix tehm up!

    Like


  78. Actually, I am reminded of R’s post on the best alpha job ever where the 50 year old photographer married his 19 year old model. Obviously, her body’s hot and she’s hot, but her personality was mellow. The photog could’ve (or apparently still was) banging hot, high-energy, high-flake girls, but it’s more likely that his wife had the temperament to actually settle down. So, yeah, I think some puas think they’re going to score hot paris hilton types, but this is the more likely outcome.

    [Editor: Yeah, Richard Kern was the guy. There’s video at that post of him and his girl.]

    Like


  79. Jerry: All other aspects of pickup are easy compared to having one’s phone calls and texts completely ignored by an 18 year old 9 or 10 thirty years younger than yourself who’d been easy to deal with in person but suddenly changed when communication turned to the electronic realm.

    They’re easy to deal with in person because they’re 9s or 10s and are used to having guys of all ages flirt with them. If they flake when you invite them out, they weren’t interested to begin with.

    Did you monitor their body language in person? How flirtatious were they? I’m dating a 19 year old now and seriously considering another one to The Rotation, but I am very choosy when it comes to young women: they have to show extra heavy non-verbal cues of interest before I’ll bother getting their numbers.

    The younger a woman is, the faster you need to number close and GTFO. If you spend too much time talking to them, you’re going to burn any possibility of going out with them in mere minutes.

    All three seriously flaked on me.

    They weren’t interested in you enough, or they might have been for 2 minutes but you took too long to number close and book out.

    I could have just realized that I’d gone for a bridge too far, that the women who are better looking than 99% of their peers (10s) who are thirty years younger are now well out of range.

    No such thing as “out of range” if you know how to catch their interest. Review what you did when you met them and initiated conversation with them and think if the typical guy on the street did that. Did you add them to Facebook, like most idiots do? Did you text them the day you got their number? I’m sure you screwed up more than once, and that’s why they lost interest. The younger a woman is, the less eager they want their men.

    But I know they do the same thing to guys their own age.

    They do it to the chickens of any age, but the hawks get the dates.

    So I struck a line of being polite but persistent in the face of getting what most men would consider inhuman ignorance (a woman who is seriously not interested in a guy needs to just tell him that).

    Polite? When did a hawk become polite? The hawk flies over his territory and goes in for the kill when he sees what he wants, then flies back home with his dinner.

    Some of my texts discussed how I knew they had tons of options but a limited amount of time to exercise those options. I’ve learned that a man has no choice but to discuss evolutionary biology with women so it’s all out in the open.

    What the hell? If you text a woman anything more than “Thursday. Drinks. 8pm. Wear a dress.” you’ve screwed up beyond hope. My longest text in the past 90 days to a woman of any age was “I’m wearing red so don’t wear red, and don’t wear black because people will think you’re hiding fat.” That was to a 26 year old. My typical text to the 19 year old is “Get on the bus.” That’s it.

    I texted like I expected to see them when whatever problem was bothering them ended.

    Ok, now I think you’re a troll and I cant’ believe I bothered to respond to this. Please, people, this site is for people who actually WANT help, not trolls who go against every rule and standard born. But since other people MIGHT have the same questions, I’ll continue…

    I was persistent and polite as I pretended that there must be something serious going on in their lives, while not texting too much.

    Texting more than “Thursday, 8pm, I’ll pick you up” is too more.

    I ended up ‘accidentally’ meeting one of these women in person and overcame the flaking that way.

    Accidentally? What, are you stalking her Facebook/Twitter and tracking her down? Bad move. If you run into a flake, make sure you’re with a hot woman and whisper into that woman’s ear while making eye contact with the flaker. I like to whisper “Look at that blond gal over there and then laugh real fast.” Women LOVE to chop down other women in public. If the woman you’re with asks why, just say “She’s one of those stalk-flake-stalk types.”

    My texting was a sort of vulnerability game. It came across as beta but, since I’d been alpha in getting the phone numbers, it provided enough balance that convinced one woman to stop the bad behavior.

    Betas get phone numbers, pal. Betas text. Alphas don’t. Alphas keep non-facetime communications to a minimu,.

    She called me last night after I’d stopped texting for two days and invited me to meet her and her 3 roommates immediately.

    Group invitation? That’s not a date, that’s a chance for 4 bitches to pull a Chicken in and then laugh about him when he goes home without sex or at least a blowjob.

    They’d been chatting about men and the subject of the foreign guy who kept texting her had intrigued the roommates. The confidence and friendliness of my texts, in the face of getting no answers, had defeated a major shit test.

    Doubtful. To be a fly on the wall after you left would’ve shown you the reality of the situation. I don’t let women talk about men in front of me: not men I know, not men I don’t know. If they bring up a guy, I always say “Hey, let’s get him on speakerphone, I’m sure he can learn something from this.”

    The roommates really liked me (I look young and stay in shape) and she took the initiative to briefly kiss close on the mouth when I left.

    Doesn’t mean much, hot women use that tactic just to get continued attention from orbiters. Sex is what matters, not a high school kiss. Unless there was solid tongue and she pulled your crotch into hers with her hands on your ass.

    I will have to meet the 3rd flaker in person again if there will ever be a chance with her. Some of my texts to her that were never answered got bitter; I made the mistake of implying that an 18 year old hottie should be held to standards of character that other human beings are called to hold to.

    I wouldn’t respond to your texts, either.

    That, of course, is a mistake. 18 year old hotties have every right to behave like total assholes with men and we’re supposed to forgive them.

    No, we’re supposed to fulfill the needs their inner brains have, and that means knowing those needs. They need us to make them wet and hungry for us, but you have a chip on your shoulder, Chico.

    1) Try to live in an area where people keep meeting each other in person often enough that a woman can’t ignore you simply by not taking calls or answering texts.

    Huh? Initiate a text only with the fact that you’re telling her where you’re taking her, and that’s it. Game on or game over.

    There are plenty of sub-cultures where it’s OK for a man to go directly to where she’s at if there seems to be an electronic communication problem (in the US that would include resort towns but most of the US has a mentally sick anti-stalker mentality).

    That’s stalker mentality anywhere. Beta + beta + beta = Omega.

    2) Talk about evolutionary biology. If an 18 year old asks you why you aren’t trying to meet a 25 year old, bluntly tell her it’s because she’s hotter if only temporarily so.

    If an 18 year old asks me why I’m not dating someone older than me, I smile, change subject and move on to something more fun.

    If she can’t handle the truth, she’s been ruined by feminism and isn’t worth knowing anyway. Believe me, non-feminist women can be told the truth about their limited shelf life as hotties.

    No, because then they know you’re a doormat who thinks they’re hot. It’s better for you to be ambivalent about their looks.

    3) Be persistent. Don’t assume the flaking is anything more than a shit test. Assume that, if she wasn’t interested, she’d tell you.

    Here’s my persistence:

    1. I text them “Thursday, 8pm, wear a dress.”

    If they respond with interest, I’ll go out.

    If they don’t respond or respond without interest, I don’t reply and I never contact them again.

    Men need to all assume that flaking is just a shit test. This will force women to more directly reject men when they are really not interested.

    Flaking is a sign of lack of interest because you were too eager. I can’t even count on one hand how many women have flaked on me in the past 10 years, including sub-20 year olds.

    She’s got enormous power and it’s a better idea to explain to her why she’s got that power and how temporary it is, than to try to get her to behave like a normal human being who cares about other’s feelings.

    An 18 year old has NO power. She’s afraid of the world, has no idea what she’ll do with her life, is starting to see those initial signs of age, doesn’t understand why she’s popular and is afraid it’s just over men wanting sex, thinks everyone is smarter than her, etc, etc. 18 year olds are fabulous to date if you fulfill their inner brain’s needs.

    I’d like to see others give tips on what they’ve done that stops flaking. It’s the toughest of all PUA subjects.

    End answer: stop being an over-eager beta.

    I consider myself damned lucky that I got called to meet those roommates last night.

    Troll.

    I’m still not sure what I’d done correctly.

    Nothing.

    Like


  80. I think every girl should be her Daddy’s princess, but he should be aware of the world outside his kingdom. My Dad’s one big mistake aside of corporal punishment (which isn’t bad in all cases, but made me too mistrustful to ask for help when I needed it) was not being aware of how crappy gender relations had become. He lived in the non Catholic Christian bubble.

    There is no perfect parent, but a girl should feel like a princess in the loved sense as well as in the responsible sense. In real life, the conduct of the princess reflects on the family, and it is also important for her to keep the family line strong and not “downbreed”.

    With the perks should come some duties.

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  81. on June 1, 2011 at 12:04 pm Corporal Hicks

    The USSA is a cold, Germanic business culture.

    Women quickly learn this.

    They learn to leverage (whether they realize it or not) their sexuality at ever-younger ages.

    Oral sex is RAMPANT in elementary schools in Femerica.

    Ask any second-grade teacher.

    SECOND-grade girls already accumulating mileage?

    Lara, whatsup, and the other “sugartits” here are posting in a men’s forum for ONE reason only:

    ATTENTION.

    With the female population essentially “gone porno,” women are learning that getting a corner on male attention is increasingly difficult for the lot of them.

    Thus, the “sugartits” caterwauling and insane commentary from the female crowd here.

    Wotta mess.

    Like


  82. Low Energy Younger Women

    May 31, 2011 by Heartiste

    I concur with the concept – if it’s the man’s age that’s more relevant as the measurement of tolerance.

    One can say “hot 20 year-olds are worth it ALL” when one is 30, but evidence shows that older men with money choices use 20 year-old girls like Kleenex. Attitudes change as time passes.

    A quick fuck: Yes. A relationship, no.

    The final problem is magnified when Miss Faded Beauty reaches expiration and is an utterly empty, vapid intolerable human being.

    The secret, is they always were.

    Like


  83. on June 1, 2011 at 12:20 pm CatoRenasci

    Nicole: you wish you were entitled much?

    A little corporal punishment goes a long way, but should not be neglected entirely. It gets your immediate attention when nothing else will.

    There’s no such thing as “‘princess’ in the loved sense”: “princess” is about entitlement and knowing you can manipulate daddy (and, by extension, all men).

    I have met a couple of real princesses (as in the titled variety) in my time — neither of whom were “princesses” — but I’ve never met a “princess” who didn’t inspire me to walk quickly in the other direction.

    I suppose one them might be interesting after being broken like one breaks a horse, but life is too short to waste time on them.

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  84. Oral sex is RAMPANT in elementary schools in Femerica.

    Ask any second-grade teacher.

    SECOND-grade girls already accumulating mileage?

    nah, oral doesn’t count as mileage.

    only activity leading to seminal deposit counts as sex.

    Like


  85. @AB Dada

    You’re posing asshole.

    You’re not pulling 18 year old 9s and 10s if you’re not getting flaked on a lot.

    And there’s a world of difference between plain solid 9s and those closer to 10.

    I’ll go into more detail below.

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  86. Jerry, AB Dada may or may not be an asshole, and whether or not he’s posing is unimportant. What’s important here is that his comments to you sound 100% credible and solid as hell. It would be in your interest to get over your hurt pride and pay attention and learn from his blunt but valuable pointers.

    Like


  87. AB Dada, nice solid advice. Please write more here.

    Like


  88. @Jerry You’re posing asshole.

    You’re not pulling 18 year old 9s and 10s if you’re not getting flaked on a lot.

    I post my real name. That’s me. Not hiding behind a fake name or a first name.

    I don’t get flaked on because I don’t give them the opportunity to flake on me. If they’re not showing extremely heavy interest, I don’t give them one additional second of thought or time. The only guys who get flaked on are guys who try too hard, show eagerness when they shouldn’t, persist when it’s obvious the gal isn’t showing stronger interest than he is, or doesn’t have a reputation in social and business circles that make women think twice about flaking.

    And there’s a world of difference between plain solid 9s and those closer to 10.

    No 9 is plain. A 7 can be plain, an 8 is pretty and a 9 is hot. Sure, a 10 is an order of magnitude above a 9, but when it comes to a 9 or a 10 who is 18-20, they’ve still got tons of issues BEYOND “every guy thinks I’m hot.” It’s knowing that those issues exist that makes the difference.

    You don’t go in and try to close on a 9 or a 10 of any age unless you’ve got a way to instantly build reputation with them. I wouldn’t walk into a crowd of 9s at a bar that I’ve never been at before because they have the upper hand, regardless of game. Fame helps, but having the upper hand in terms of social value is key. I never try to close on a 9 or a 10 when their social value is perceived to be higher than mine.

    All of my closing happens on my terms, where my perceived social value is higher (usually much higher), and the 9 or 10 knows it. If I go to the beach, you better believe I have my own beta orbiters in tow to play beach volleyball with, along with a few of my cute gal friends. There’s instant perceived social value. If I go to a bar on a weekend night, it’s a bar I’ve already spent time at during the slower nights of the week. Instant perceived social value. If I go to the bank and hit on a banker, she’s already seeing how many accounts I have and what money I’m making, plus the bank manager and business account manager always come right up to me to say hi — instant perceived social value.

    Don’t try to close when your perceived social value is low, or you’ll get flaked on constantly.

    Like


  89. PA Jerry, AB Dada may or may not be an asshole, and whether or not he’s posing is unimportant. What’s important here is that his comments to you sound 100% credible and solid as hell. It would be in your interest to get over your hurt pride and pay attention and learn from his blunt but valuable pointers.

    I am an asshole, so what? I’m also respected by those I respect in return. I spent a good portion of my early 20s in wasted effort going against my gut instinct over a 10 who took me for a million of my money in the divorce. Now I go by my gut, and I want to make sure other guys do, too.

    I openly admit where I fuck up, and where I have fucked up. I played the beta doormat for 6 solid years and can’t get those back, or get my money back, or get my reputation during that time frame back. Do I get every number I try to close on? Absolutely not, not even close. But that’s part of having Game: you have to take risks because those bring the best rewards, and if you’re not losing on some bets, you’re not betting high enough.

    As for Jerry, he actually admitted to tons of beta maneuvers that hot young women already have to deal with 24/7. They don’t want any more of that, they want to chase, they want to dig, and they want to feel like they’re working to get the guy, keep the guy. If you let them coast or have it easy, they’ll lose interest faster than Roissy after accidentally walking in to a gay porn store.

    Like


  90. They’re easy to deal with in person because they’re 9s or 10s and are used to having guys of all ages flirt with them. If they flake when you invite them out, they weren’t interested to begin with.

    A standard poser response.

    And pro-feminist like the old PUA commenter style was 2+ years ago.

    It implies that the hottest young women think rationally and don’t use flaking as a shit test.

    The statement isn’t true at all.

    Did you monitor their body language in person? How flirtatious were they? I’m dating a 19 year old now and seriously considering another one to The Rotation, but I am very choosy when it comes to young women: they have to show extra heavy non-verbal cues of interest before I’ll bother getting their numbers.

    This strategy is OK for dealing with 9s and below.

    If you’re shooting for 10s and you intend to lay your target, you don’t get the luxury of just going with those whom you know you definitely connected with best.

    The younger a woman is, the faster you need to number close and GTFO. If you spend too much time talking to them, you’re going to burn any possibility of going out with them in mere minutes.

    Since I tend to do well with 18 and 19 year olds who are way younger than I am, I can state first-hand that this statement is entirely wrong.

    I number closed too quickly. The memory of the meeting was way too short for them.

    The less time you relate to a woman, the likelier of a flake.

    They weren’t interested in you enough, or they might have been for 2 minutes but you took too long to number close and book out.

    No. They were 18 and scared and I was way older than they were, yet I’m still dating 2 out of the 3 now that I’ve broken past the shit tests, which is what flaking is.

    No such thing as “out of range” if you know how to catch their interest.

    If I looked my age, I wouldn’t be getting anywhere near the 18-21 age range.

    Again, you’re pretending that flaking always means lack of interest, rather than, sometimes, irrational shit test.

    Did you add them to Facebook, like most idiots do?

    We’re talking Eastern Europe, land of the supposed “mail order bride”. No Facebook. And the 10s aren’t pushovers for Americans.

    Did you text them the day you got their number? I’m sure you screwed up more than once, and that’s why they lost interest.

    No. Waited two days, called. And you’re reflecting the old pro-feminist PUA attitude that a guy giving a field report has probably badly screwed up before women who would have fallen at the feet of the macho guy criticizing the other guy.

    No need to make assumptions in ad hominem attack style.

    This is exactly why there are so few guys making field reports on such forums.

    Like


  91. While it may be true that “whorefinder” was never explicitly rejected by this girl, it’s worth keeping in mind that he was rejected in an abstract sense.

    See, your average slightly shy 20 year old man is sexually invisible. i.e. the vast majority of girls he meets do not see him as someone they might conceivably have sex with. He may get lucky now and then, but for the most part girls see him as a sexual non-entity and he knows it from the way girls resist when he clumsily hints at any kind of interest.

    This is extremely frustrating for a man and what makes it worse is that girls do not understand or empathize at all. As F. Roger Devlin points out, most men are simply outside girls’ erotic field of view.

    So it’s natural to feel a little schadenfreude 10 or 20 years later when the situation has reversed itself.

    Like


  92. on June 1, 2011 at 12:46 pm CatoRenasci

    Don’t try to close when your perceived social value is low, or you’ll get flaked on constantly.

    Fundamental truth

    A beta who knows all the techniques of game and practices them assiduously is still a beta, though he’ll do better than he did before.

    Almost no one will be successful with the few true 9s and 10s unless he can project high social value. Perceived social value without substance can get you the number; ultimately, successful game depends on being able to deliver real social value over time.

    Like


  93. I wish there was a pill that slowed down the horrors of time on a woman’s looks. The founder of this very blog has stated that the world would be more magical if it were filled with lovely women.

    It is a cruel shame, but one that sometimes does allow us men to smile a bit. We’ve all been shut down by hot women. We were inexperienced and learned that harsh lesson. I’m glad I got shot down so much in my years. Hardens the heart. And then to see these same women mistreat what gave them so much power, and speed up the aging process – and become invisible. Like we used to be.

    It is a sad, sick movie that wins the oscar for best picture because the truth, the irony, and triumph.

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  94. CatoRenasci Fundamental truth. A beta who knows all the techniques of game and practices them assiduously is still a beta, though he’ll do better than he did before.

    QFT, Cato. Knowing Game, using Game isn’t enough. If you know what a knife can do and you try to cut something with it improperly, people will laugh at you. Game is a knife that allows you to see through the outer brain bullshit a woman spews; it’s a knife that prepares her inner brain for the cooking she wants from the right type of man.

    Almost no one will be successful with the few true 9s and 10s unless he can project high social value. Perceived social value without substance can get you the number; ultimately, successful game depends on being able to deliver real social value over time.

    I’ve a friend who is 40 this year. She’s gorgeous, a solid 9 that can easily compete with women 20 years younger than her. Just going out with her once a month attracts younger 9s to me like moths to a lamp, regardless of who they are or where they’re at. Just having a hot gal near me is high social value to the gals who don’t see enough guys with ANY social value whatsoever.

    For me, most 9s and 10s are NOT dateable. They’re short term flings. I go into dating them for one reason: to be the one to break up with them so I can add them to the list of hot women I can spend time with in public merely as a high social value poster to the 7s and 8s I prefer to date for longer than 30 days.

    If you’re trying to marry a 9 or a 10, good luck. Two things can happen: she gets fat/ugly, or she never grows past her looks. It’s not worth it. Meet them, number close fast, make heavy demands of them, break up with them quickly, and keep them around as magnets for the pretty but not hot pieces that CAN treat you well. Those are the ones you can sustain real social value with because their expectations aren’t so high.

    Side note: I do recommend seeing 9 or a 10 long term if they live in another city that takes a flight to get there. Go on vacation once or twice a year, take them out, make sure their friends take photos of you together and you’ve got instant social value online. Because you don’t see them too often, you can withstand the hassle of dating a 9 or a 10 because the distance does make their heart grow fonder, and you only have to put in a ridiculous effort 3 or 4 nights a year in exchange for that permanent social value increase that sticks even if you haven’t seen them in months or years.

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  95. @AB Dada

    In Eastern Europe I don’t have any social value problem.

    Women over 20 are a snap. But an insecure 18 year old is very likely to flake on a man of very high perceived social value, especially if he’s a lot older. Even if she’s a 5, the whole idea might terrify her.

    That’s the way it is. If you look young enough at 34, good for you. But even then you’re talking about going with the women who go for you and those are likely to be 8s and 9s because the 10s are off in their own Outer Space.

    I did well following your strategy but I’ve decided to go get the 10s. They’re out there but you can’t wait for them to fall into the “net” of having your orbiters and bankers ready to bolster your social value.

    It’s man vs beast in the hunt for 10s. No props/weapons allowed (orbiters/bankers).

    And dating 2 out of the 3 after the initial flaking isn’t bad at all in terms of results.

    Also, the American “male’s” preoccupation with propping up the feminist concept of “stalking” and “creepy”, etc, is really setting American men back.

    In Eastern Europe, men can go see a woman in person who seems to be having trouble with her cell phone. That’s not only acceptable socially to all her friends, etc, but it was part of winning the shit test in one case last week.

    The American feminist position is that a woman should reject men by ignoring calls and texts.

    The American feminist position is that a woman flakes because she’s not interested in all cases, rather than she flakes because she’s irrational and shit testing, etc.

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  96. Pump and dump the high energy flakes. It’s good for your karma.

    If you LTR, pick a low energy girl.

    Shit testing and flakiness is a sign that a girl has options, but it’s also a sign that a girl has drastically overestimated her desirability. Considering that even quiet and reliable girls overestimate their desirability, it is safe to assume that super high energy girls are straight up snorting lines of their own shit.

    Like


  97. Perfect Post.

    Book stores people. Go there. Find them. Conquer.*

    *Avoid if they are looking at marriage magazines.

    P.S. I agree with Jerry^ There is no way you’re pulling prime half your age and not getting a phone full of flake numbers and fall-through dates. It’s just not happening. It happens to me and I’m 24, good looking and alpha. Getting flaked on comes with the search.

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  98. Jerry A standard poser response.

    A poser has no social proof of his higher value. I do have social proof, so it’s irrelevant how you define me.

    It implies that the hottest young women think rationally and don’t use flaking as a shit test.

    When did I say that any woman thinks rationally? When it comes to 9s and 10s, their outer brain makes assumptions that you have to know how to handle. You handle it by tweaking their inner brain, i.e. “hamster”.

    This strategy is OK for dealing with 9s and below.

    No, it works with any woman of any ranking. When I met the 19 year old, at her work, she shows very high signs of interest immediately. I was at a client’s BBQ 2 weeks ago and his 18 year old daughter came up to me (made a bee line, according to onlookers) and immediately showed high interest. When I was in South Beach 3 weeks ago, a gal at the drinking fountain (20 years old) showed strong interest right out of the gate when I made eye contact and came up to say hi. If they’re not showing high interest, they’re not worth the time investment. If you have Game, you don’t need to play games.

    If you’re shooting for 10s and you intend to lay your target, you don’t get the luxury of just going with those whom you know you definitely connected with best.

    I don’t shoot for 10s or 9s or 8s or 7s. If I see an attractive femme, who knows if she’s wearing as corset and has more cement on her face than a Chicago street repair in spring? Sex is something I expect, but I don’t press for it no matter how pretty the gal is, if she’s not REALLY excited about seeing me, I’m the one that flakes. There’s no amount of time I’ve wasted chasing anyone of any ranking. You wasted nights and text messages and self-respect on these 18 year olds who are probably sitting in a room and laughing at you regularly.

    Since I tend to do well with 18 and 19 year olds who are way younger than I am, I can state first-hand that this statement is entirely wrong.

    I’m 37 and I have no issue with women of any age. I was on a cruise a few weeks ago and had interest from women 18-55. When you have high social value, women can’t resist wondering who you are and what you have that the other guys they meet don’t.

    I number closed too quickly. The memory of the meeting was way too short for them.

    When I walk into a bar or onto the beach volleyball court or into a client’s office or into a party or event, my primary concern is raising my social value into the stratosphere. When a bar owner runs up to me screaming my name and giving me a bro-hug, women notice. When I get 10 high-fives from the guys already playing volleyball, women notice. When I show up at a party and the bartender stops making one person’s drink to pour me a finger of Scotch whisky and brings it to me, women notice.

    How do you stick in a woman’s memory after just 3 minutes of talking to her? By having very high social value. 10s remember me, 4s remember me, because I don’t approach them unless I’ve already won the social value battle wherever I am. And if I’m low on the totem pole, I’m either bailing or I’m working on ways to raise that social value for the next time I’m there.

    The less time you relate to a woman, the likelier of a flake.

    The higher your social value, the more likely the woman can’t stop thinking about you.

    No. They were 18 and scared and I was way older than they were, yet I’m still dating 2 out of the 3 now that I’ve broken past the shit tests, which is what flaking is.

    There’s no way to prove this, but if we put it to a poll here, I’d be you’d get 90% voting against this being true.

    If I looked my age, I wouldn’t be getting anywhere near the 18-21 age range.

    Looks matter, for sure. I don’t work out at all but I have nice abs, an inverted pyramid body shape, and I appear 3-4″ taller than I actually am. But I also know fat, blubbery alphas who score girls who I’d consider generally outside of my league. They have ridiculously high social value.

    Again, you’re pretending that flaking always means lack of interest, rather than, sometimes, irrational shit test.

    Pretending? No, I’m saying that flaking to me is a deal breaker, and I’m not going to spend my time trying to battle it. Shit test or not, those women aren’t worth my time. I travel 1-2 times a week for pleasure, out of Chicago, and I meet gorgeous women everywhere I go. Why the hell would I want to waste 5 minutes (or more!) of my time over a gal who isn’t already attacking me with her interest and desire? Life is too short to lose 5 minutes. Losing 10 minutes a day of my time is nearly 4 days a YEAR lost. You said it yourself that you got angry/frustrated over their flaking. That’s lost time. I don’t play that game over poon when there’s so much poon everywhere that DON’T flake.

    We’re talking Eastern Europe, land of the supposed “mail order bride”. No Facebook. And the 10s aren’t pushovers for Americans.

    I have a flat in Sopot, Poland (University town) that I travel to once or twice a year. I have no problems with Polish 10s. I also go to Paris once or twice a year to meet a good friend there who owns a bar. No problems with French 10s. Any woman is a pushover for any man who has high social value.

    No. Waited two days, called. And you’re reflecting the old pro-feminist PUA attitude that a guy giving a field report has probably badly screwed up before women who would have fallen at the feet of the macho guy criticizing the other guy.

    I’m not the macho guy, I just started re-reading your initial post and realized that you haven’t spent enough time reading The Chateau. Even if a flaker changes her mind because you persist, that relationship is doomed and it will end on HER call. I don’t get dumped because my relationships exist based on my desire to see them again. When your value is higher than theirs is, they need you in their lives.

    No need to make assumptions in ad hominem attack style.

    Hey, we deal with trolls here every day, and your post reeks of trolling.

    This is exactly why there are so few guys making field reports on such forums.

    Shit, I prefer my friends, lovers and clients to smack me down with harsh criticism when I fuck up. You should appreciate that I am taking time out of my busy day of suntanning on my roof deck to help you out.

    Dump those 2 18 year olds this week. Don’t give them a reason. You’ll be much happier for it, versus when they stop responding to your initiations in 2 weeks or less.

    Like


  99. “What did you want this bartender to do? Pick you of the thousands of bar patrons and love you?”

    Probably yes. A big percentage of men in their late teens and early 20s just want to find a girl who is roughly equal in attractiveness; become boyfriend and girlfriend without a lot of games; and settle down.

    Of course, there are few problems with this. First a girl who is in the 50th percentile of 20 year-old girls in attractiveness has a significantly higher romantic market value than a man who is in the 50th percentile of 20 year-old men.

    Second, often the man doesn’t actually want to settle down. Once he has had a decent amount of sex with the girl, there is a good chance that he will start to look for someone else. Just as girls have hypergamous instincts, men have polygamous instincts to deal with.

    And third, everyone has a tendency to overestimate their own level of attractiveness.

    Like


  100. ballin365 P.S. I agree with Jerry^ There is no way you’re pulling prime half your age and not getting a phone full of flake numbers and fall-through dates. It’s just not happening. It happens to me and I’m 24, good looking and alpha. Getting flaked on comes with the search.

    No, it doesn’t. That’s ridiculous talk if you’re actually alpha and know how to properly use Game to make the woman’s inner brain squeal with pleasure.

    If you don’t have high social value, you get flaked on. If you display high value, you won’t get flaked on (often). I considered how many times I’ve been flaked on in recent memory (5 years or so) and I’d say it was twice, but both times might have been my fault. Both times I had low social value compared to them, and both times I was overeager.

    If you’re getting flaked on, raise your social value and try again with a new 9 or 10. If you continue to get flaked on, keep raising your social value.

    Jerry and ballin365: what do you dudes do to raise perceived social value from women?

    Like


  101. Jerry, I wonder about all this “She is a 10” talk, especially when your game is really really in need of improvement. “Dating” girls without fucking them is like eating food without putting it in your mouth.

    Like


  102. Jerry Women over 20 are a snap. But an insecure 18 year old is very likely to flake on a man of very high perceived social value, especially if he’s a lot older. Even if she’s a 5, the whole idea might terrify her.

    Yeah, that’s why 50 year old rock stars can still bang 17 year olds after a concern. That’s why my buddy who is 60 years old and owns a popular club in Chicago has a new 20 year old in his bed at least once a week. That’s why one of my financial backers who is closing on 60 can pick up 20-year old women at a bar in 5 minutes or less and have them at his place in his bed in under an hour. Sorry, but I’ve never met an 18 year old who is afraid of going out with me, IF she’s showing high signs of attraction right off the bat.

    That’s the way it is. If you look young enough at 34, good for you. But even then you’re talking about going with the women who go for you and those are likely to be 8s and 9s because the 10s are off in their own Outer Space.

    I have white hair in 50% of my beard and I don’t hide it. It’s not about looking young, it’s about appearing powerful. And I do appear powerful, and that’s what counts.

    10s are not in outer space, they’re just sick and tired and bored of the over-eager guys who have nothing to excite them with. High social value = exciting.

    I did well following your strategy but I’ve decided to go get the 10s. They’re out there but you can’t wait for them to fall into the “net” of having your orbiters and bankers ready to bolster your social value.

    I travel to the same 10 cities around the world regularly, and I always maintain high value in those cities. It doesn’t take much effort, costs almost no money, and is important for business, entertainment and meeting hot women.

    When you have high value, you automatically have male beta orbiters. They’re going to be there when you make an appearance. At bars, those orbiters can be bartenders, barbacks, security staff, DJs or owner-managers. At the bank, guys with high value always have orbiters who come up and talk to them. At the beaches you spend time at, you’ll always have orbiters who want to be in your “group” because you have high value. I don’t bring orbiters with me, they just appear because I have high value. I’m extremely friendly with every guy I meet and I help them rise above their own social ranking when they’re with me so they can raise my social value higher through me being nice to them and remembering their name or job or goals.

    It’s man vs beast in the hunt for 10s. No props/weapons allowed (orbiters/bankers).

    I don’t bring props or weapons, they just exist when you have high value.

    And dating 2 out of the 3 after the initial flaking isn’t bad at all in terms of results.

    It’s bad for your self-respect that you had to lower yourself to catch them. When those relationships expire quickly, you’ll be even lower than that. No thanks, I’ll pass.

    Also, the American “male’s” preoccupation with propping up the feminist concept of “stalking” and “creepy”, etc, is really setting American men back.

    Let me tell you how I define stalking and creepy: anything that is a waste of my time is creepy, and if I have to put more effort in dating a woman than she puts into me, that’s stalking. I do neither.

    In Eastern Europe, men can go see a woman in person who seems to be having trouble with her cell phone. That’s not only acceptable socially to all her friends, etc, but it was part of winning the shit test in one case last week.

    I don’t date women who have problems with their cell phones. Problem solved. When I live in Europe (Poland, as I said), I never have met a woman who has a problem with her cell phone. Never.

    The American feminist position is that a woman should reject men by ignoring calls and texts.

    If a woman isn’t crazy hot for me, I appreciate it if she doesn’t return my call or text. I’m programmed to lose interest if a woman doesn’t attack me with interest, so it’s a sweet move on their part to ignore me if they’re not crazy hot for me.

    The American feminist position is that a woman flakes because she’s not interested in all cases, rather than she flakes because she’s irrational and shit testing, etc.

    Then call me an American feminist because I have too much value to myself to waste time trying to deal with a woman who isn’t hot for me from the get-go. In Chicago there are probably dozens of 10s who I haven’t met yet, hundreds of 9s and thousands of 8s. There’s just waiting to be met and mesmerized. I’ll take that over a gal who is hot-cold-hot-cold with me. Beauty is easy to find, but time is always fleeting.

    Like


  103. Low-energy woman = Beta woman

    However, betaness in a woman should be inconsequential to an alpha male, if the looks are there.

    Like


  104. @AB Dada

    The blogger opened with the statement that younger women are a pain in the ass (PITA).

    I wasn’t expecting a dumb flame war that said this really isn’t the case if an older man has “social proof”.

    It’s the case with lots of ignorant and insecure 18 year olds especially if a man has social proof.

    Ballin365 is correct. He’s half my age and he’s getting flaked on as I’d expect. Getting flaked on comes with gaming the best looking young women. And it’s not always because a guy, alpha or not, made a “mistake”.

    We’re talking insecure irrational 18 year olds, some of whom may have lied about their age.

    It’s feminist to imply that, if women are interested, they will always pursue or react logically, even if you perceive this to be the case because you’re temporarily riding high and 9s are OK for you on any given evening if a 10 flakes.

    Sure, I’d agree that I’d never marry (and probably not impregnate) any of the 3 flakers from the field report.

    But to say “I’ll just move on if a woman flakes” is too easy and shames men into stopping the discussion of how to deal with flakers besides simply moving on.

    Like


  105. @Jerry:

    I guess a lot of it depends on your territory. I’m a big fan of having my territory locked in — I want the best bartenders, the best chefs, the best competition in the sports I play, the best DJs and the best clients who promote me to new clients. As such, I’m uninterested in the new thing in any market, be it a club or restaurant or beach scene.

    I’ll check out new places, but I tend to do it on off days/nights so I can get a good grasp of what it’s like when things are slow. If I like the place, I’ll use those slow nights to meet up with clients or friends, and build social value on those nights for when I make an appearance on a busy night.

    I attribute *all* of my successes in life to those who I surround myself with, even the beta males I know. High value helps in sex, in love, in income and in entertainment. It also opens doors to reaching high value in new places when you’re given the name of someone with already high value at those new places, from someone with equally high value at your regular spots in your territory. I usually check out a new restaurant when one of my regular restaurant owners/chefs sends me over there and calls me in to that new place’s owner or chef. I check out new clubs when a DJ I’m friends with invites me to check it out.

    It sounds like you and I have two separate views on territory: I prefer marking my favorite spots and using them to my advantage. My favorite bar in Chicago is a relatively small “gastropub” and I’ve met plenty of 9s at it, and even a rare 10 maybe once a year. The owner has friends all over town and hooks me up with dinners at new places constantly, and the guy who DJs there a few times a month is well known enough and invites me out weekly (although I usually pass). It sounds like you prefer random encounters in random places — I can’t fault you, but it’s too much work for me. Just staying in my favorite spots in my territory works well, and I meet plenty of people, be it clients or pretty gals or industry folk.

    I don’t even think the topic of “Territory” has been covered here at the Chateau, but I think it should. If the average reader here has low social value, maybe he’s over-extending himself to too many spots and isn’t committed to building strong social value in a few places. It’s an action that actually increases your value even outside of those few places because as your reputation goes up, your ability to build strong value quickly in new spots comes with it.

    Like


  106. Jerry,
    You are constantly getting flaked on because you are going for women that are out of your league. If you would be more realistic about who and who isn’t going to be interested in you you could probably save yourself a lot time and frustration and maintain your self respect. I would think you would be getting a little tired of all this at your age.

    Like


  107. A.B. Dada has a good point about territory.

    Like


  108. @ A.B. Dada

    First step to being perceived as having a high social value is not typing exorbitantly long paragraphs on an internet blog trying to prove something to other men.

    Some women will convince themselves that it won’t work out before it begins. It’s not ALL about how you present yourself to them, “game” them, whatever.

    You’re executing the magic formula to lay EVERY woman right? Please. I should also add that if you feel it necessary to win over every woman and are not satisfied otherwise then you are not alpha. Alphas have nothing to prove.

    Like


  109. @ Lara

    Yes Jerry you should just settle.

    Shame on you Jerry.

    NOT.

    Like


  110. ballin365

    @ A.B. Dada

    First step to being perceived as having a high social value is not typing exorbitantly long paragraphs on an internet blog trying to prove something to other men.

    ABD’s made many valid points.

    A word to the wise is sufficient.

    Like


  111. ballin365: actually, posting long missives on the Chateau under my real name has exactly the side effect of raising my value in my markets. I have friends, clients and even a few lovers who’ve come to the site on their own and later told me they saw my post and appreciated it. If what I say helps a few guys understand their own mistakes, or saves them from wasting time and building frustration over a flaker, my reputation goes up.

    I execute the magic formula to raise interest in me: from possible clients, friends, lovers. I say “no” to new customers often because I value my time. Hell, I have a solid reputation with competitors of mine because I’ll birddog them interested clients that I’ve passed on. Guess what? That raises my value. If a 9 or a 10 sends me signals of desire and I don’t bite, guess what happens? That’s right, raised social value. I’m happy with the women I have in my life but I won’t marry any of them; eventually they’ll need a schlub beta to provide them with a free roof and fat kids.

    That’s why talking to 9s and 10s helps: I prefer being the one to deny *them* and gain reputation as a guy who a woman really has to be solid to land.

    I don’t feel any of my time posting missives is wasted. I’m sitting on a lounge chair soaking up the rays all day, and don’t mind taking a few minutes break to do something that raises my value, teaches the lost and gets heads nodding. I’ve posted here from a poolside with an 8 sitting next to me in a bikini. Even that raises value, so why not do it?

    Like


  112. a.b. dada,

    i think that’s it – you and jerry are disagreeing on strategy because you’re on different battlefields.

    lara,

    perhaps he relishes the challenge. the frustration is overshadowed by the thrill of victory when the obstacle is surmounted. different people have different thresholds.

    but i also didn’t get the sense from jerry that he’s particularly frustrated or has lost self respect. maybe he only seems frustrated because of the lengthiness and quantity of his posts. but that would be the reader’s projection on his posts.

    Like


  113. @Lara

    You are correct that I push the envelope by going after those who, at least age-wise, should now be way out of my league.

    But, regardless of whether I’ve “lowered myself” or not in any situation, I do end up sleeping with half the women that age who initially flake on me.

    Like Pavlov’s dogs, I continue a behavior that gets rewarded enough (number’s game).

    I know I will be, very soon, too old to compete.

    But that day hasn’t come yet.

    @AB Dada

    Thanks for toning down the “I’m doing better with women than you” tone. I’m sure you are doing better or quite well in what sounds like a faster moving scene than the sleepy peasant environment I’m in.

    Territory would be a great topic for a post.

    There’s also a dynamic in the place I’m at where the Anti-Slut Defense and nationalism kicks in regarding dating an American man because the economic difference is so large. Especially with a peasant girl, it’s too easy to over-whelm on the social proof side.

    I realize that some sophisticated urban environments in Poland might have the opposite dynamic. I know what you’re talking about.

    Here, they don’t want to be seen as chasing an American and they definitely don’t want some American player taking their honor and going back home.

    For instance, I can guarantee you that my being treated like a god by the local DJ would only hurt me by overplaying my hand.

    It’s a strange environment where a guy has to downplay social proof.

    Even if social proof worked in this atmosphere, I couldn’t wait for that once per year 10 to walk into an environment where I had local social proof.

    So I face the grueling choice of standing as a foreign tourist or whatever in front of someone who speaks no english and asking her for directions.

    I have to use vulnerability game to not look like one of the marauding foreign players the local men warn the women not to be sluts with.

    Even then, it’s only difficult if one is talking about one of the 10 best looking women in town.

    The blogger called the youngest ones a Pain in the Neck.

    Like


  114. Uh, FNG here, but am I the only one who thinks that ABD and Jerry are talking about completely different categories of game?

    ABD is talking about full-on Alpha game. Flakes do not happen because he does not ALLOW them to happen. He has systematically built up a lifestyle and routine that ensures that FEMALE-INITIATED SEX will occur at his discretion. His energy is spent in MAINTENANCE rather than MARKETING or MANAGEMENT. This is actually the ideal business growth model as well since it implies maximum economy and self-perpetuating growth.

    Jerry is talking from the ground level, and this is not meant to impugn his game. The reality for most guys, even many alphas is that the best girls will flake due to the confluence of social pressures.

    I am interested in Jerry’s solutions and strategies while aspiring to ABD’s lifestyle template.

    Like


  115. Daigoro: that’s *exactly* it. Nail on the head, brother.

    I don’t build value just to get laid, in fact sex/relationships are the bottom of my need/want list. I build value because I don’t like wasting time. I don’t want to wait in line for a table, I don’t want to have the stand up in a crowd of hipsters getting my cocktail knocked over and I don’t want to have to wonder if the gal I closed on is lukewarm. I also don’t like doing new business initial sales calls only to be told “We’re not in the market for your services right now” aka LJBF in the business world.

    There’s hot and there’s not hot. No middle ground when it comes to desire. No grey area.

    Jerry probably gets off on the chase — good! I wish I had that gene, but life offers too many opportunities in too little time for me. I’m programmed differently. I don’t clip coupons or buy GroupOn deals or fly non-refundable coach air either, because time and comfort matter most.

    Jerry, google my name and add me to Facebook and I’ll buy you a Scotch whisky if I’m ever in your town.

    Like


  116. @ A.B. Dada

    You came off like you were picking up everything half your age that passed you on the street. If you truly do place picking up women and their behavior at the bottom of your list…then you have a friend in me lol.

    Like


  117. @ A.B. Dada

    What the hell?? I should at least get a fat Cohiba for streamlining your online operations…

    (no homo)

    ha ha ha

    Like


  118. A.B. Dada has the right mentality. Some of the most alpha men I know wouldn’t necessarily be that impressive to some girl on the street.

    Like


  119. being the expert on the issue… young women who aren’t into being f-n-c’d and jizzed on by random men every weekend tend to be oxycontin driven creatures. prone to pair bonding vs. biplar/ADHD/slutty usuals. This means they are very easy to overgame and often hopelessly sensitive and emotionally volatile (the sledgehammer of game is too much for them as time goes on). Feel free to ignore Roissy’s DC lawyer cunt taming tactics when you need to and embrace your inner beta. If she thanks you with a good BJ, you know you are doing it right.

    Like


  120. @ Lara

    True Story.

    Like


  121. Hell no, ballin365. I know my social weaknesses and I avoid them like potholes. I’m strong at building real value in markets and circles, and use it to my advantage. I bet on random closing attempts on the street I’m probably 1 for 10, but I bet I haven’t tried but 20 times in a half decade. On the other hand, building value is easy in groups even if I don’t know anyone…it’s a matter of distancing myself from the typical guy with no opinions. I don’t hide my dislike of obesity, my racist tendencies (although only towards 2 subcultures, not race specifically), my opinion that men are prefered peers over women and my apolitical beliefs. Be opinionated in a group and I’m sure to find a few people (minimum) who agree with me but are beta enough to orbit and springboard off of.

    I also happen to always have a good assortment of ladies in my bedroom, so finding new ones to bed is less important than turning on their motors and letting them be frustrated until I find myself a pussy short. Denying hot women (8 ) really works — and if you’re good, you LJBF a few 9s and you have instant value when they’re your orbiters. Mark my words: hot women orbiters are better than height, looks, money or power. Work on adding a few and immediately LJBFing them.

    Like


  122. @ Diagoro

    lol, well arguing about women is about the biggest waste of time I can think of. ROFL The men make valid points.

    Like


  123. “Some of the most alpha men I know wouldn’t necessarily be that impressive to some girl on the street.”

    Maybe not at first glance, but usually 15 seconds’ chat will work its magic on any girl. If he’s a for-real alpha, particularly a smart one as well, this will work across ANY age or cultural lines. Two recent examples from my observation:

    A brilliant fifty-something freelancer/artsy fundamentalist Christian charmed a hot college student waitress.

    A smallish twenty-something white guy who flirt with every woman he sees got huge buying signals from a large, middle aged black woman security guard.

    Like


  124. @ AB Dada

    Yup, I tend to do the same; though I love the cold approach on the street and do it for my own rush and to watch them squirm.

    Opinions; often that differ from social norms or PC BS really draw attention. I hold many of those so I also agree with you there. Plus if you can’t joke about race or cultural differences what the hell is left? Joking about sex ALL the time just makes you look like you don’t get any.

    Indifference towards just about anything is key.

    Like


  125. @Lotez

    “Good post. The only thing I’m concerned about when dating a low energy girl is the quality of sex is also low energy compared to other girls, On a scale of 0 – 10, I would give it a 5 at most, and they are normally the girls that are shy in bed.
    Oral? Yack!
    Anal? Forgetaboutit”
    ——————————————————
    Amen brother.Preach on.

    Like


  126. I’ve never seen a connection between low energy and an unwillingness to try new things in bed. Ever.

    Like


  127. Low energy doesn’t mean no energy. It just means they’re busy enough to prioritize good effort over wasted effort. My favorite dame is low energy and she’s great in the sack. When she knows she’s seeing me, she goes to bed early the night before and leaves work a half hour early. She’s not a 9, but a woman who does your laundry, coos attraction to you, gets turned on when you flirt with waitresses and always gives and gives and takes and takes in bed is a winner. Plus she’s ok seeing me 2-3 times a month tops and never spews drama or femme shit tests. If my guy friends who are “in love” had her, they’d wonder why they put up with their own Maria Shrivers for so long.

    Low energy can mean low drama, low shit testing, low expectations for expensive things, and low assumptions. It doesn’t mean low sex drive at all, and given that they’re not hung over smelling like a brewery 4 mornings a week, the sex drive might be higher than the dramatic club princesses.

    Like


  128. I would replace the term low energy with the more appropriate term of low maintenance.

    A low maintenance girl who can turn the high maintenance stuff on when is advantageous are the most emotionally intelligent and creative girls. It’s not what you have but how you use it. More tools in one’s tool box can’t hurt. hehe!!

    Like


  129. @what

    A low maintenance girl who can turn the high maintenance stuff on when is advantageous

    Yah, right… advantageous to whom?
    I don’t like turncoats!

    /FAIL

    Like


  130. I have grey hair on my head (5%) and a ton of white hair in my beard (70%) and …

    A.B. Dada doesn’t always drink beer. But when he does, he makes it Dos Equis.

    Like


  131. @ Cadnerd

    “Yah, right… advantageous to whom?”

    hahaha!!! hey, it could be a win win situation. lol!!! The high maintenance stuff could be quite exciting…no? when used at the RIGHT time. hehe!!

    Like


  132. Not really, what. I was sold on a low maintenance package and now this? Nonononono!

    Like


  133. @Cadnerd
    “Not really, what. I was sold on a low maintenance package and now this? Nonononono!”

    “Package”…hahaha!! it’s not a package. you’re tooo funny. lol!!! Hey two packages combined in one. What’s there not to like about that?! hahah!! Double the fun! lol!!!

    Like


  134. @what

    How about 2 LM identical twins. Sounds like much better deal, no? If I exhaust one, the other one can step in.

    Darn, why I haven’t thought of it before. I still remember these 80’s tv ads “double your pleasure”. Yes, I know it was for a chewing gum.

    Like


  135. What? gum? do you need coffee now?

    Like


  136. What, you don’t get the ref, too young, I guess. It’s a ok.

    Like


  137. “too young”… a good thing, really.

    Back to your contention. I you meant make-believe HM, then no objections.

    Like


  138. @Cadnerd
    “I you meant make-believe HM, then no objections.”

    Is this a sentence? English is my second language, is yours too?hahhaah!! What’s HM?

    Like


  139. 1. Men with lots of options are also flaky.

    2. There’s another option: date good girls. Young, pretty ones who like older men. Preferably from a wealthy family. They’re there.

    Like


  140. @A.B. Daba

    Are you this guy? http://www.2abd.com/

    or this one?

    http://www.blogger.com/profile/02445545079716916849

    Blogger of : How to be a man & church sound technician – how to deal with AV (I didn’t list them all – it’s a long list)

    I was disappointed there wasn’t a FB picture. 😦

    You’re a good writer/poster made me curious enough to look.

    Like


  141. A.B. Dada is right on every point I have read so far on this post. Thank you.

    Consider the true color personalities. I saw a DVD that describes them really well, at length(get curious not furious by mary miscisin PBS). I think it will be helpful in dealing with women by type and in choosing your own personality.

    Blue – insecure women, omega males. submissive.

    Green – Work is play type. Not social.

    Orange – Rules are flexible type, Likes variety, thrill seeking. controlling.

    Gold – Rule oriented, organized. family oriented etc. controlling.

    These types are mix with many people being equally 2 types. Maybe even three.

    Like


  142. Awesome advice A.B. Dada. Your right. I need to set the first impression of demanding sex.

    Collegeboy: These women are typically over worked, and desperately seeking companionship. In high school this translated to lots of fun and not LJBF.

    What I meant in the above comment. “desperately seeking companionship” is that these women are very stressed and very bored. They are asking for excitement, for an escape from their daily life.

    I’ve seen this attitude where ever women are stressed (afraid of failure at work/school), over worked, or bored. Like at a really busy clinic the nurse openly looked down at my crotch and into my eyes seeking relief. or at college during finals, when they made their needs openly known, by making sexual jokes with me (before getting married also). In these situations I was more concerned about my future than a one night stand, because I was in the same boat. My father was really sick in the nurse case.

    Because these women don’t seem to be happy with their situation, If I give an escape from boredom, I can give a very strong emotional pull. By emotional pull I mean that they chase me. Shit tests are to make it clear to them that they chase me. I use them until I can find the perfect time to demand sex. Because the setting work, school, etc.. is not perfect (women like opportunistic perfect setting, when others or situations cockblock).

    However I need to start using your strategies instead. These women are getting older and I need to be more straight forward.

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  143. What, HM = high maintenance.

    It should be obvious what I meant, but yeah, I were typing in a shorthand. Thusly, HM as a “let’s just pretend” for the kick out of it, I’ll let that slide.

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  144. This waiting for the perfect timing to have sex also shows that I’m not too eager to have sex. since I act as if it doesn’t matter(sometimes I really have someone else). until the timing and setting is adequate. some of these women I ask for sex and they will respond a day or two later, when they feel clean, sexy, etc..

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  145. once I’ve had sex with them they then offer when I don’t even ask.

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  146. Cato, for me it wasn’t about entitlement so much as ignorance. I just didn’t know there were dirty dogs who didn’t behave like that coming out of the box, until I was maybe 33 years old. Until then, I’d always seen the red lights clearly, and had never been in an exploitive relationship more than a few weeks.

    Then when I first encountered a real deal dirty dog, I went into a kind of denial. I figured that he was uniquely pathological…but then something similar happened again. I just couldn’t figure out why otherwise decent men wanted to hurt me.

    Now I understand that it’s because there’s a discrepancy between my level of sexual appeal and my social value. It’s something my Dad couldn’t possibly have anticipated because he’s never been desperate enough to shag anyone he felt was beneath his standards, and probably doesn’t even know anyone who has.

    Still, as I said before, had it not been for him teaching me that the source of my problems is me, I wouldn’t have bothered to stick around here past the first couple of times of being informed that I was a bitch. A respect for men was too well ingrained for me to just dismiss the guys here as nuts or mean for no good reason.

    I understand what princess usually means. What I was trying to say is that love isn’t the same thing as indulging someone’s every silly whim. I know my Daddy would love me even if I was an axe murderer, but he would still put me out of my misery for it.

    He taught me how to be hardcore by example. So even when I was a bitch, I was the ride or die type. That’s what a princess should be.

    I think if a woman is death loyal, she should never know first hand that there are men in the world who want to hurt her…but that’s a should. I say that, but I don’t really live in a world of shoulds. In reality, husbands get distracted, die, or crappy things in life traumatize them. Regardless of how wonderful every man she knows around her may be, she should be prepared for the fact that if she ends up somehow on the market again, this is a screwed up world, and it’s not so easy to tell who is who anymore because almost everybody’s been screwed and now has no problem screwing others.

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  147. Cadnerd,

    : )

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  148. on June 2, 2011 at 10:16 am CatoRenasci

    Nicole – in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

    Understanding the depravity of human nature – and living a purposeful, honest life amidst it – requires courage. Our culture used to teach those things, but hasn’t in a couple of generations, at least. Moral behavior in the face of the loss of traditional morality and religion is even harder — which is what Nietzsche actually was talking about in his masterful, but metaphorical German prose.

    The entitled princess looks to exploit, and feminism seeks to exploit – all in the name of ending exploitation. As much fun as it seems at the time, all of this is playing with fire, so to speak.

    Of course, the natural result is the development of PUA, game, and sites like this — which were entirely unnecessary a century ago — and both men and women who see exploitation, and sex, as a zero sum game – I take or your take.

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  149. @ A.B. Dada
    If this is you (http://www.unanimocracy.com/author/admin/), I enjoyed reading many of your posts.

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  150. @A.B. Dada
    I don’t hide my dislike of obesity, my racist tendencies (although only towards 2 subcultures, not race specifically), my opinion that men are prefered peers over women and my apolitical beliefs.

    That’s a good way to put it regarding being repulsed by the subculture not its race. That’s how I feel though I hadn’t thought of it in those terms before.

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  151. I know of Naomi Wolff, but not enough to really get the reference. Any links?

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  152. @DelTaco

    You are correct that the host should have spelled out what was so offensive about Naomi Wolf’s latest nonsense.

    You can do a search for Washington Post and Naomi Wolf 2011 and you should find the offensive new essay she just got published.

    I’ve always semi-admired her for being relatively fair as feminists go and I even assumed she was politically libertarian and had said good things about Ron Paul in 2008. Ron Paul is the only Republican politician besides Tom Tancredo who opposed VAWA (a black Congresswoman, bless her heart, also opposed VAWA but maybe it was because it didn’t go far enough for her).

    When she wrote “Fire with Fire” in the mid 90s, she invented the word “Victim Feminist” and warned fems not to go in that direction. The major media pretended that book hadn’t been written, however. They don’t attribute it to her as her greatest work, which it was.

    In the entire book, the only offensive remark I read was when she said “Don’t get upset if your man looks at photos of young cheerleaders, it’s not as if he’s going to have the opportunity and the will to act on it”. That was a naive and stupid remark.

    But now she’s a lot older. She’s no longer sexually attractive to men her own age (47).

    And her new essay tried to pretend that, because she got older, we men are all supposed to be hip and change our view of what’s sexually attractive in order to follow along with her.

    The essay is pathetic and transparent. Yet only 2 commenters out of 100 tried to point that out. This is the Washington Post remember.

    The essay begins with an anecdote about a man her age, 47, bringing a twenty something woman to a cocktail party filled with 40 something same-age couples. She remarks that they the man and his date had nothing in common and that everyone felt sorry for him, like he had been trying to show off and it didn’t work.

    She was ignoring the fact that there are plenty of times when a man her age can bring a woman half her age to a party and the chemistry between the man and his date is fantastic. Feminists use anecdotes that show the exception to the rule and pretend they prove the opposite of how things really are.

    The rest of the essay went on about her old book “The Beauty Myth” (simplistic tripe the media considers was her greatest work) and how she should update it to say that it is a myth that women supposedly get less attractive as they get older.

    She said that hip and cool men will date older women or at least women their own age, even after menopause.

    She was making it very clear that the rest of us are not cool nor civilized nor socially acceptable.

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  153. Speaking of younger women, whom feminists and White Knighters say are innocent, here’s a great blog post called Mamas Don’t Let Your Babies Grow Up to Be Self Shooters:

    http://www.inmalafide.com/blog/2011/06/03/mammas-dont-let-your-babies-grow-up-to-be-self-shooters/

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  154. Tinderbox: That IS me, and thank you! I have plenty of websites/blogs/newsletters out there, most of which are actually written by me.

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  155. @DelTaco

    Naomi Wolf is an influential feminist who first became big in the early 1990s. Best known for writing The Beauty Myth where she blamed society and men for imposing impossibly high standards of beauty upon women, worsening their insecurities even as women gain more power in the modern world (workplace, politics, etc). She asserts that there should be broader acceptance of natural beauty, and freedom from the pressure of conforming to a societal ideal of beauty. Particularly as women age, of course.

    I don’t really have any links beyond the usual Google results, but one good place for some debate is in the comments section of the Amazon entry for The Beauty Myth.

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  156. Low energy girls are definitely not bad in the sack. I’m taggin a 19 year old right now and she is unconcerned with being the hottest thing on the street, but yet, she hits the weights and works her body.

    The sex is absolutely incredible since we r both athletic, but she actually enjoys camping and the outdoors too!

    She smokes weed too. My friends asked me if i would give her extsy and i told em all no. i wouldn’t want to ruin a great thing that i have, and i would hate to turn a great girl into a party girl.

    Introverted girls are not bad. They just need that extra talking too, along with some funny jokes related to em that can pull them out of their shell and open up. I always assume that if a girl is talking to me of her own will without me initiating that she is definitely interested, regardless of what’s in her text message or call.

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  157. A.B. Daba is bringing up something that all good men can use, especially if they’re a little shy. I’ve used it myself (although not to his jet-setting level).

    When I got back from Iraq, I was a mess. I’d been gone for over a year (infantry, so I didn’t even see a Western female the whole time), seen and done some terrible things, and the girl I thought I’d marry was pregnant by some other dude. In short, I was in no kind of shape mentally to relate with women.

    For me, A.B. Daba’s advice/strategy can be distilled into this:

    Have a purpose beyond women for being there – talking to women is incidental. Mr. Daba is doing business and relaxing, my purpose was re-integrating into society and finding my feet again in the “real world”.

    I got a job as a bouncer at a nice place. It was the best thing I could’ve done for myself at the time. Since I was there working, I didn’t feel like I had to justify myself to any girl I talked to. It also inadvertently made me qualify the women I chatted with – was she funny/smart/hot enough to put aside doing my job at that moment? In Mr. Daba’s case – should he stop working a prospective customer/making a contact to spend time with the gal?

    It also allowed me do demonstrate higher social value – I was part of the “in crowd” – one of the fickle folks on the other side of the velvet rope. Also, nothing generates gina tingle like seeing a guy control a potentially violent situation though verbal judo or (last resort, always) direct physical violence.

    You’ll also get to know people in the “industry” – seeing them out at other places is an instant boost in social value, especially when they like you/owe you one from saving their ass from that drunken, angry yuppie on Thursday.

    I’ve since moved on to bigger and better things, but I still enjoy going to the places I worked as a bouncer. I’m treated like family, respected for the work I did, and my former co-workers always stop by and chat. It’s even better than being a regular – and the girls definitely notice.

    If you don’t want to/can’t actually work in the type of venue you hang out in, then befriend the people who work there. For bouncers, the best way to do it is this:

    -For the first couple/three nights you go there, a golden handshake is great. It cements your face in the bouncer’s mind. Spend a short time (like, three minutes – no more) chatting with the guy.

    -Once he recognizes you when you arrive (might take a few weekends if the dude is thick – don’t take it personal), sneak him a drink. Golden handshake is no longer necessary, but try and do the drink thing every night you go there.

    -If the guy(s) are halfway interesting/sane, invite them to an after-party or go out to dinner with them on their night off. In short, cultivate a friendship. Don’t be a douche, and don’t smoke the guy’s pole – just find something to like about him. Become buddies.

    Who knows – a real friendship may develop. Having a true friend or six in “the industry” is worth more than 5″ of height and a Hair Club For Men Lifetime Membership. It’s a two way street – some of you Ivy-League brainiacs would probably benefit from hanging out with a blue collar, salty combat vet like me. I had my eyes opened and am quite happy in life now in part because I became friends with some of the yuppie brainiacs I saved from having their asses kicked.

    Give it a shot.

    A word of caution:

    Not all the people in the bar industry are good folks. There is rampant addiction and a greater percentage of screwballs in this field than others. Be careful and a little skeptical, especially of bouncers. In my experience, bouncers are about half and half – some are good dudes that like the scene and can BS and fight in equal measure. The other half are small-dicked powertrippers that would be happier as corrupt police in some banana republic.

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  158. dogsquare: Have a purpose beyond women for being there – talking to women is incidental. Mr. Daba is doing business and relaxing, my purpose was re-integrating into society and finding my feet again in the “real world”.

    That’s Dada, not Daba, but you’re forgiven dude.

    As for re-integration into society, that IS business. You’re looking to make your life better; you make your life better through personal gain; personal gain is a profit (be it financial, social, sexual, etc); profit is good when the other party feels like they profit from the same transaction you profit from. So, in fact, you’re doing business always.

    I got a job as a bouncer at a nice place. It was the best thing I could’ve done for myself at the time.

    Every chicken-man I know (betas/omegas) I offer the advice of working at a bar as a bouncer or a bar back. Bar backs actually get more tail than bartenders do. Good move.

    Since I was there working, I didn’t feel like I had to justify myself to any girl I talked to.

    When did you ever feel like you had to justify yourself, and why? Just curious.

    In Mr. Daba’s case – should he stop working a prospective customer/making a contact to spend time with the gal?

    Last night I actually DID reschedule a possible client dinner for some time with one of the dames. Why did I do it? Because the client was wishy-washy about wanting to use my services, so it was important for him to understand that I’m too busy to dick around; on the other hand, the gal really wanted to see me, and I said no. After I canceled the dinner, I texted her and said “I’ll be over in half an hour, wear a skirt.” She did, and she made it worth my while. Sometimes a physical profit is better than a possible financial profit — and I did both on MY terms.

    It also allowed me do demonstrate higher social value – I was part of the “in crowd” – one of the fickle folks on the other side of the velvet rope. Also, nothing generates gina tingle like seeing a guy control a potentially violent situation though verbal judo or (last resort, always) direct physical violence.

    Even better, if you go home alone after the bar, go find out where the other bouncers hang out. In Chicago, when the 2am bars close, everyone in the industry goes to a 4am bar — this is a great way to raise social value and have a blast.

    I’ve since moved on to bigger and better things, but I still enjoy going to the places I worked as a bouncer.

    Oh, didn’t realize you’ve moved on. I always recommend industy folk stay in contact with their bosses — maybe offer to fill in on a night when a regular bouncer fails to show. If your regular bread-and-butter income falls apart, you can always go back if the bridges are still unburnt.

    Once he recognizes you when you arrive (might take a few weekends if the dude is thick – don’t take it personal), sneak him a drink.

    I actually always buy bouncers shots, but I don’t do it when anyone’s watching. I tell my bartender to take the bouncer a shot (I pick the drink since it’s my money), and then turn and nod when I notice he gets it. The quality of service you get not just from the front door staff but the bar staff themselves is amazing. If the barback is a regular, I always pick up an extra shift drink for when they’re off work — those barbacks stay in the industry a long time usually, move places, and also offer faster table service when my glasses are piling up. The $10 extra I pay to buy the bouncer and barback a shot mean nothing to me; it’s the kind of respect return-on-investment that you can’t get any other way as easily.

    Good advice, bro, keep it coming.

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  159. >That’s Dada, not Daba, but you’re forgiven dude.

    Apologies, my good man. Anytime you want a lesson in long distance precision marksmanship or a beer, I owe you.

    >When did you ever feel like you had to justify yourself, and why? Just curious.

    Complicated, and a little emo and/or Jungian, but I’ll give it a rip:

    I am by nature very monogamous. I was not over my ex, and in fact she had devastated me. Even so, I couldn’t shake the fact that I was cheating, or being somehow disrespectful to her. Don’t get me wrong – intellectually I knew I was single, but it took over a year before the ol’ parasympathetic nervous system kicked in.

    I didn’t much like myself much at the time for many other reasons, as well.

    As far as the justification thing goes, I had a little voice in my head that was a motherfucker. It constantly said stuff like “You have a limp and scars, you have terrible dreams, your own mother thinks you’re too angry, the girl you loved is now a mother to another dude’s kid, this chick is way out of your league, etc”.

    For whatever perverse, self-flagellating reason, I felt the need to explain away this crap before I could seriously hit on a girl. Sometimes I’d do it to myself, and (horror of horrors, I know) I’d bring up something I didn’t like about myself, then try and explain that I was a basically good guy anyway.

    Weird, I know. At the time, I was in such a shitty place mentally that I couldn’t imagine any girl actually liking me. Being honest to a fault, my default response was to throw some dirt out there so I didn’t feel guilty about obfuscating what a terrible mess I was. If the girl was still interested, it was on her.

    Somehow, getting a paycheck for being in the bar changed all that for me. I had a role to play – a product to deliver. I try and be a professional in all things, so it was very easy for me to stuff my baggage and be what the manager wanted – a guy who helped deliver a safe, fun atmosphere for the patrons. My personal demons don’t have anything to do with that, so they never got brought up.

    After some time and a great amount of focused effort, I was actually able to become that guy even when I was off the clock.

    As to the rest of your post – I see you’ve got the bar staff thing figured out. I don’t know why more guys don’t do this stuff. It’s easy, a great investment, and probably so obvious nobody thinks of it.

    Fair Winds and Following Seas, good Sir. I’m definitely going to check out some of your other writing.

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  160. on June 3, 2011 at 6:31 pm driveallnight

    “Bar backs actually get more tail than bartenders do.”

    Horseshit. And I say that having done both jobs through undergrad and grad school.

    They can’t comp drinks or control how stiff your drink is (like bartenders), nor do they control admissions to the club (bouncers). Barbacks are the betas, obliged to clean up puke and spills. They also have to orbit the bartenders and do whatever the bartenders tell them to do.

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  161. “Since I was there working, I didn’t feel like I had to justify myself to any girl I talked to.”

    I understand what he’s talking about. If a guy is working him talking to you seems more like a way of killing time before his shift is up rather than hitting on you.

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  162. @dogsquat

    former Marine here, not sure what branch you were.

    i kind of went through the same shit, in a different way. After getting out i kind of lost my purpose and way. i stopped working out, i only did school, work, + videogames, and i had a baby girl too. i lived with my baby’s mama and things went to shit the more i entrenched into my shitty ways.

    We of course broke up. We hated each other by the end.

    cue going to university, meeting a former Navy guy who worked in the biggest night clubs in san diego and my life was on track to get fixed. I started working out again (I’m at 30+ pullups, 2x bodyweight deadlifts, etc), I got a job, I’m in a master’s program, i am going to a career event for a major financial company in two weeks, etc.

    Now, I have a 19 year old girl flying out to see my 27 year old ass on her dime in 30 mins. She went to the wrong airport and paid $86 for a cab to get to the right one.

    I’m gonna get so much ass these next two weeks it’s gonna be ridiculous. A 27 year old guy bangin a 19 year old. I would have never thought. And really, i don’t think much of it. Most people are kind of shocked, but it’s second nature to me.

    The best part about my life? My baby’s mama is STILL mad, bitter, and angry even though she has a new guy. I’ve gotten over it all and learned to enjoy my life. I’ve been tryin to get her to do the same, but i don’t push too hard.

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  163. @ Erik

    Semper Gumby, Devil Nut.

    We Marines often have setbacks in life, but we’re so dumb and stubborn that we end up winning anyway.

    Keep your head down, Brother.

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  164. So batshit crazy women are batshit crazy and non/less batshit crazy women are less batshit crazy? Serously?

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  165. What about the obvious question of where to find these young, low-energy chicks? Especially from an older guy’s perspective… Doesn’t exactly look right when a 30 year old keeps hitting on groups of 22 yr olds…

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  166. on June 5, 2011 at 2:08 pm MartianBachelor

    Gramps, I guess with the “mid-life crisis” charge failing to stick after all these decades, the age 40+ crowd of women who men weren’t pursuing so much had to manufacture something even more ominous and pathological sounding to describe normal human behavior.

    So they accuse the men they (think they) want, and seem to feel they deserve having first “dibs” on, of making too many unwanted sexual retreats. But they don’t consider this sexual harassment because they’re righteous. Somehow they’ve managed to convince themselves they can collectively browbeat men into finding them attractive, or at least the “inner beauty” they claim so often to have is supposed to be a sufficient substitute.

    Then these same women really flip out when they proclaim their own “hotness” (which we must have missed) and threaten to go cougar on us, and be just as bad as they think we are, by trying to take off the market as many young guys — our basic competition for young women — as they can manage.

    You know you’re winning when the other side can only seem to manage to shoot itself in the foot. It’s why I always root for Team Vagina: they constantly need all the help they can get.

    That demographer Salt guy seems to want to have it both ways. If “an available male in his 40s receives a lot of attention because he’s the only thing going around” it’s not exactly a delusion that he’s in demand. He’s also wrong about all those wannabee cougars — they’re not all strong and confident-y. More like they’re on the verge of massive nervous breakdowns. Especially now that Orca is off the air.

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  167. Eh, crazy women give great sex. Other than that…

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  168. dogsquat, hang tough, man. Hooah! (Semper Fi! …I’m Army, so I gotta say Army stuff, but it means the same.)

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  169. I know one of these chicks. I am 41, she is 27. Last week, I invited her to my place. She cooked me a pre-made pizza and we were watching a DVD movie while we were hugging. I was not in the mood for sex. When the movie ended, she went to her place.

    The following day, she text messaged me: “Thank you for making me so happy yesterday”

    Don’t try this in America, though.

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