Does Game Work Less Well On Masculine Women?

A reader left a link to a very interesting study of digit ratio and how it affects women’s mating and nesting behavior.

The current study assessed digit ratio (2D:4D) and mate guarding in 101 dating couples. Low 2D:4D men (indicating higher prenatal testosterone exposure) were more likely to state that they threatened male competitors and used more threats and physical aggression toward their female partners. Men were particularly likely to use threats and physical aggression toward partners who cheated in the current relationship. In addition, women resisted mate guarding by men with high 2D:4D, particularly when women cheated on their partner. High 2D:4D women were more possessive toward their partner. This is consistent with ideas regarding the effects of sexual selection on mate guarding.

Digit ratio studies seem to come out every week now, with similar conclusions that the amount of testosterone or estrogen we are exposed to in our mothers’ wombs has real world consequences for how we act as adults when searching for a mate and settling into relationships. It is strange but true that you can tell quite a bit about a person’s character — barring exceptions, of course — by simply eyeballing the ratio between his or her ring finger and index finger. Cultural conditioning, my ass.

Studies like this one are anathema to feminists (for the obvious reasons), but they should give practitioners of the crimson art of game pause, too. For if digit ratio alters women’s behavior toward men and her fidelity within relationships, then game will have to adapt to those realities.

Examine, for instance, the second conclusion in that study abstract above. Women resist mate guarding by high digit ratio (i.e., feminized) men; in layman’s terms, women give feminine men more shit when those men act possessively. More masculine men, therefore, can better get away with possessively jealous behavior. A well-versed student at Le Château Institute for Advanced Poon Studies would slyly remark that it makes perfect sense when you consider that women would be more likely to want to step out on a feminized beta male to get impregnated during the ovulation part of her cycle by an alpha male. A very jealous beta boyfriend would throw an annoying monkey wrench in her subconscious plans.

Also note that the female resistance to mate guarding by the male is *stronger* when she has already cheated. Gentlemen, if you have discovered cheating by your girlfriend or wife, kick her out immedaitely after throwing her shit on the sidewalk. Ignore her desperate entreaties to the contrary; it is already too late to save your relationship or marriage.

In addition, the study found that high digit ratio (i.e., highly feminine) women are more possessive of their boyfriends. Why would this be so? Presumably, feminine women would have more options on the dating market, so they would have less reason to be possessive within a relationship. But you have to look at both sides of the couple equation. Feminine women likely partner with masculine men — sexual polarity is the most potent attractant in the known universe, besting even black hole gravitational pull — and these are the kind of men who have more opportunity to cheat when the cheatin’s good.

Similarly, it would not surprise me to learn that feminine betas often wind up with masculine women who take charge of the development of the relationship. The problem that presents itself to these betas is that masculine women are going to find it harder to keep strange cock out of their panties when the ovulation bell rings.

What does this have to do with game? Well, we know that feminine men will have a harder time keeping their women in line, and feminine women will be easier to game into strict relationship fidelity. Possessiveness often gets a bad rap in the cultural mainstream, but ask yourself this: Would you rather deal with an overly attentive girlfriend easily aroused to jealousy, or a stand-offish “girlfriend” with a wandering eye? Which girl will give you better, and more frequent, sex?

From experience, I can tell you that girlfriend possessiveness, while annoying at times and dangerously apt to blossom into full-blown stalker-itis if improperly managed, is far more amenable to game and psychological ploys designed to minimize its worst aspects than girlfriend aloofness.

A masculine, aloof girlfriend is the beta boyfriend’s second worst nightmare (his first is involuntary celibacy). This type of girl will chew him up and spit him out, twice on Sundays, and this goes double for betas without a clue. A beta with tight game — which, by definition, will bump him into lesser alpha territory — can keep a masculine, low digit ratio girlfriend’s faithless instincts in check, but it will cost him regular peace of mind. He may decide she is worth the aggravation if she’s hot enough.

Alpha males have to deal with possessive, feminine girlfriends more than beta males do, so their perspective on that specific manifestation of female behavior may be skewed toward less tolerance for it. This is why you will often hear natural players complaining bitterly about clingy girlfriends who cramp their alleycat style, the gender opposite of masculine women who seethe with contempt for their clingy, beta boyfriends.

As a follower of the tenets of game, you have to take two critical presumptions into account when you venture into the field.

1. As a man, do you tend to the less aggressive or more aggressive end of the male behavior spectrum? Your digit ratio will give you a clue as to which way you lean. If more aggressive (lower ratio), you may want to shoot for women with lower ratios as well, since they will be less possessive of your time and attention, freeing you up to fool around. If you are less aggressive by temperament, you will want to screen for feminine women with higher digit ratios, as these types of women will be more easily gamed into loyal relationship material.

2. Are you looking for a fling or a girlfriend? If the former, target low digit ratio girls. If the latter, go with high digit ratio girls.

Returning to the title of this post, I surmise that masculine, low digit ratio women are harder to game because they are less possessive and more prone to cheat than feminine women. A lack of possessiveness means that a whole suite of game strategies that deal specifically with arousing jealousy and instilling a fear of loss will not work as well on women who don’t get jealous very easily by nature. Similarly, game tactics which inspire love, and, hence, loyalty, in women will be less effective on masculine women with stronger drives to cheat and slut it up.

My experience confirms this hypothesis. Think of masculine women as quasi-men. How well does game work on men? Not very well. It stands to reason that game will have less impact on women who have the psychology of men.

Luckily, most men prefer the company of more feminine women, particularly for LTRs. If she’s a fling, then it doesn’t much matter if she craves random cock once a month, or likes to scratch her belly while watching football.

This is not to say that game is useless on masculine women. In fact, many early game tactics work better on women with oversized clits. A masculine woman is probably a pro at brushing off betas, and it’s a good bet she has the broad but shallow ego of a man. As a result, negs will work particularly well on her kind, and the happy surprise of being on the receiving end of brazenly cocky game will catapult her straight past the comfort zone and into your bed.


  1. I agree with the reasoning of this post but want to alert readers to one dangerous exception involving possessive girlfriends: borderline personality disorder (BPD).

    Women suffering from BPD have a perpetual fear of abandonment and often become irrationally jealous and possessive. Yet at the same time, BPDs are prone to promiscuity. They also tend to pre-empt perceived abandonment by exercising avoidant behavior or irrationally quitting relationships altogether for the self-defeating reason of seeking to avoid being left by their partner first.

    If you are with a girl that is jealous and possessive for really no apparent reason whatsoever, keep an eye out for BPD because women with BPD are absolutely crazy and dangerous.


    • I’m sure others here will also weigh in to agree 100% with this comment. BPD women are indeed absolutely crazy and dangerous, especially when young. It’s a cruel trick of nature that they are also often hot as hell, sexually adventuresome and voracious.


      • on November 30, 2011 at 7:17 pm Rant Casey - BR


        They will make you get rid of them to keep your sanity.

        But you will miss the sex sooo much. LOL

        I had a LTR with one for one year and a half. She almost drove me nuts. And she harassed quite a bunch of girls on the suspicion that they were flirting with me – even 8 months after I broke up. Blackmailed one or two of them even.

        And they are hard to get rid – very prone to stalking. The 50 phone calls in a row and sleeping in her car in front of your house kind of stalking.

        You dont even have to be an alpha to accomplish that. Myself, I am not.


      • Hmm, we must know the same girl….


      • I think we all do, LOL.

        “They will make you get rid of them to keep your sanity.”

        My last one enforced a very strict tunnel-vision when in public. If she caught my eyes so much as twitch in the direction of a comelier girl (which in Portland was just about every one), she would lapse into a very deep depression on the spot.

        Once we were watching a rather gritty Slovakian movie, and there was a scene with this dude watching a late-night 80’s movie, and the scene in that movie was of a leggy blond woman with one of those awful bouffants of the era exposing her breasts; this sent my ex into a frenzy of puritanism — for she interprets her pitiably low SMV as an inclination to chastity — and called out from me … well, a physical response.

        Five months of life and thousands of dollars sacrificed to that nonsense. BPD is serious business which a young man must avoid however hot the wayward vixen may be.


    • Borderlines also have extremely unstable relationships with their friends and tend to have repeated crises, risk-taking behaviors, and self-injury acts. Be prepared for her to be constantly looking for you to “rescue” them from these situations.


  2. The problem with “masculine” women is that they’re masculine.

    Nothing more repulsive than manjaw, broad shoulders and a bruiser’s gait on a “woman.”

    They’re a disgusting breed.

    [Heartiste: Don’t forget the big nose, the narrow hips, and the grating personality.]

    Liked by 1 person

  3. This does fit me but interestingly enough my style is to simply leave women who I feel get out of whatever line I set. I can’t remember the last time I ever yelled at a woman or threatened/used aggression….normally I just say “Oh” or “Hmm” and leave. Last week I broke up with a solid “9” because she said I didn’t respect her opinion (what occurred was what we had planned for the day we should change at the last minute to do what her friends wanted to do…with me invited of course). I said, you’re right I don’t respect that opinion and left. I haven’t seen her since, maybe a bit harsh but sometimes its better to bounce before the hamster kicks in the high gear force to betadom. (it helped walking away knowing she wanted me to get her pregnant…no, no)


    2.Index finger,
    3.Middle finger
    4.Ring finger
    5.Little finger


    • A+.

      What was that line from Heat … “Do not include anything in your life that you are not prepared to leave behind if you feel the heat around the corner … That’s the discipline.”


  4. Why would you want to game masculine women?


  5. Here’s a good example of a female that meets acceptable standards:


    • Just acceptable? Her body is perfect. Watching this I just realized that I’m not as hot as possible. And I’m probably gay.


      • If she was 2-3 inches taller and had well-shaped, high-hung, medium c tits, then she would be very close.

        Her ass is sweet. One gets a good idea of just how sweet at (roughly) the 3 minute mark in live motion.

        The insane reality is: there are too many girls of this level, or better, in Japan. They also have some remarkably tasty mommies. 😉


      • Maya Martyr wrote: “Just acceptable? Her body is perfect. Watching this I just realized that I’m not as hot as possible.”

        I hope you don’t mind that I captured and uploaded your childhood psychology for us all to watch:

        “And I’m probably gay.”

        Nah, women are objectively more beautiful than men. It’s okay to have clear eyes and an honest heart. (Can’t lose!) Don’t practice tribbing on your stuffed animals just yet.

        You’re not being serious anyway. You are subconsciously trolling for male attention like two drunk partygirls like totally making out at a Alpha Sig House Thursday kegger. Omigawd so hawt.


      • A+


      • King A, this ad is quite sad. But yeah, I’m that stupid. Can’t help. I’m against plastic surgery but I do everything else … Would be better if I was just happy with what I am. I will be. At 31 …

        “You’re not being serious anyway. You are subconsciously trolling for male attention …”

        No, I’m very serious and I’m definitely not trolling for male attention ON THE INTERNET. Like I care what anyone here thinks about me.

        (I only care about <3iste)


      • She’s a little too 14-year-old-looking for me. I like a bit more curves on a girl. Definitely pretty girl, though.


      • Fourteen year olds take on all the right curvature when you pop ’em full of man-fert. Something THE LAW has covered up for many years now, but Mexicans and Russians continue to prove.


  6. Could you give some more examples of “”brazenly cocky game” to use on a masculine chick?

    I figure some combination of unpredictability and maybe childhood games. But I don’t think that things like instilling dread, etc are going to work.


    • Instilling dread works extremely well on me and I’m quite masculine. You should try it!


      • You wouldn’t want to use game on a masculine chick….the masculine chicks should be avoided, if your game works you end up with a less than desirable chick with a dirt poor attitude.


      • Instilling dread works on all women, but it will work better with feminine women. Feminine women are much more submissive and possessive. So, if her partner lays down the law – by letting it be known that he will not tolerate certain behaviours – she will have a greater fear of the risk of losing him as she is naturally understanding of male (dominant) and female (submissive) roles. By contrast, masculine women will react to instilling dread with powerplays and attempts to push her man to act on what he states. If a man means what he says and is willing to act on it, he will be fine with a masculine women. If it is an impotent mask of dominance, she will emasculate a man’s naturally dominant role and the relationship will quickly go sour for both parties.


      • A+. Spot on.


    • Do not try to instill dread until you have her in a LTR. You will just piss her off and she’ll be done with you. Cocky is your very best bet, but as with everything, the degree depends on each situation. Got any examples?


  7. Interesting. It certainly goes against the advice offered in women’s mags and the like: don’t be clingy or possessive, if you notice your BF eyeing another woman, be cool and ignore it blah blah blah…


    • One of the best bits of dating advice a woman can get is to avoid dating advice from another woman. Invariably it will either be wrong or women projecting. (See ‘Why Men Love Bitches’ – women taking a desire they have and placing it on men.)


  8. ah. i meant as more of a way to initiate attraction. thanks

    other thoughts?


  9. There are many different types of “masculine” women. Even focused on testosterone alone, there are differences between high prenatal T and high puberty/adult T. A woman can appear feminine but still behave with masculine assertiveness.

    In my experience, masculine girls are most likely to chase after exactly the guy they want, usually based on looks or social status (DJ, Band Member, business owner, professor, etc.). See: Karen Owen. They’re less likely to be sitting pretty waiting around for a “brazenly cocky” guy to come pick them up. I would say standard game tactics should work fine, though direct game is often more viable than usual.

    But if the guy turns out to be beta in relationship game, she will get bored.


    • Definitely. High-T women can appear very feminine.

      My experience suggests that high-T women are not only sexually aggressive, but also have a clear edge in BJ quality and quantity.


    • Agreed. Exposure to high levels of prenatal T is not a good predictor of how feminine a woman appears. I thought this was common knowledge?


    • It’s so true that masculine women’s crave good looks. An Amazon Alpha I blew off years ago initiated a Facebook chat session with me after I posted a profile pic of me looking like Pitbull. She told me I looked like a bad boy.


  10. “Feminine women likely partner with masculine men”

    Do you have any evidence for this? I ask, because I doubt it.

    Even if polarity is a factor, female hypergamy limits it; women, masculine or not, tend to want men manlier than themselves. Pretty sure the chateau has said as much before. If the manliest men pair with the girliest girls in rank order, you’re left with Miss Manjaw pairing with Mr. Chipmunk Cheeked. Which only happens among feminists.

    It’s similar to how women nearly require a man taller than themselves. You see female college athletes dating male athletes and frat bros, or failing that, just banging them. You don’t see them dating herby engineers.

    Among couples I’ve seen, it’s the feminine women who are most tolerant of beta behavior, not the masculine women.


    • “Miss Manjaw pairing with Mr. Chipmunk Cheeked”

      Yes this will happen once the Manjaw has finished ridiing the cock carousel and hits her mid 30’s and settles for Mr Chimpmunk as thats all her used, abused, and probably overweight body can attract.

      “It’s similar to how women nearly require a man taller than themselves”.

      Only in online dating laundry lists. A women will generally relinquish there pre-conceived ideal of height in men for the higher status-alpha – even if he is under 6 foot. (Think Joe Pesci, Berlusconi and any other bad ass in your social circle that may be vertically challenged).


    • Basil, what cover’s this better than I could explain is a passage from Colin Wilson’s ‘New Pathways in Psychology’. He explains the role a female submissive mindset (femininity) and domint mindset (masculinity) plays in her partner choice. This gives you the answers to your questions.

      “The high dominance women were, as you might expect, precisely five per cent of the total. Sexually, they were inclined to promiscuity and experimentation – many had had lesbian experiences or tried sadomasochism. They liked males of even higher dominance, and regarded the male sexual organ as beautiful.

      Medium dominance women, the largest group, were basically romantics. They liked the kind of men who would take them to restaurants with candlelight and give them flowers. They were looking for Mr Right. They were capable of a certain amount of promiscuity, but it was essentially a second best – what they really wanted was a husband who was a good father and provider. They also wanted him to be slightly more dominant than they were, but not too dominant. Very high dominance males scared them. This group didn’t have any strong feelings about the male organ.

      Low dominance women didn’t much like sex. They liked the kind of man who would admire them from a distance for years without daring to say so. They were terrified of high dominance males, and thought the male organ downright ugly.

      But all three groups needed a male who was more dominant than themselves. One very high dominance woman searched for years for such a male and when she found him she was finally happy. But he wasn’t quite dominant enough, and so she used to provoke quarrels that would end with him slapping her about, hurling her on a bed, and raping her. These sexual experiences she found most satisfactory of all.”


      • Damn good quote. One is so wary of mainstream books these days; after reading blogs for a couple years, all the false notes introduced to ease by the censors make for tiresome, misdirected reading.

        Colin Wilson … 60s author no? The Outsider. Explains why he tells it straight.


      • Yeah, it is that Colin Wilson. While his name has been run through the mud for writing books on the occult, serial killers and bizarro history; he is a powerful and important thinker and everyone would be bettered for checking him out.


  11. If you find that all the traditional alpha game advice either falls flat with your quarry, or pisses her off and blows up in your face, there are two probabilities:
    She’s more masculine and senses that you can’t out-alpha her, or she feels like your status is too high so she is preemptively sabotaging your chances at dumping her down the road. A woman like this will act saddened or angered by alpha game instead of turned on. If a girl is a point or two below your SMV, you may be better off transitioning to “metrosexual european lothario” game, a variant of “williamsburg indie hipster” game.


  12. digit ratios reek of predestination. Men can get a blast of post-birth testosterone to make up for a bad womb, it just won’t help with your junk.

    [Heartiste: That is true. There are two major life stages of hormonal influence: the womb and puberty, and they can be reinforcing or negating of each other, as well as affecting different behavioral traits. I believe there is a post in the archives on this blog that deals with just this issue.
    Digit ratio gives us a lead; it does not tell us the whole story.]


    • I was thinking of post-puberty testosterone boosts. I lift and quit propecia … stopped blocking testosterone I guess … makes me daydream about sex and violence, but really, a lot more violence (always had sex on the brain), I don’t think I give off a very accommodating, nonthreatening vibe right now, or that I’d let someone push me aside. Some dude here postws about testosterone replacement therapy, it must be the shit cause srsly tho testosterone rocks.

      [Heartiste: The problem with post-puberty T boosts is that they’re generally short-lived and temporary. You return to baseline a few hours after a lift. Pubertal T is a permanent change to brain chemistry and probably structure as well, not to mention a big change to one’s body. But I have read studies that conclude that long-term weightlifting can permanently raise a man’s T by a nontrivial amount. All the more reason for every man to hit the weight room (or at least to throw around some heavy objects at feminists).]


      • “All the more reason for every man to hit the weight room (or at least to throw around some heavy objects at feminists).”

        A primal blueprint I can believe in!!!


      • Serum T drops a lot in the few hours after lifting, as the muscles suck it out of the bloodstream to help with recovery. Then the brain reads the low serum T level, and sends a signal to the testes to make more, to bring T back to the level where it “should” be. If you don’t lift, you don’t use the T, your body has no reason to make more.


    • I think my 2D4D is high, but I had high testosterone during puberty.

      Basically, I have thin bones and am not naturally dominant, although natural dominance is always context-sensitive. I was good at soccer and baseball but not as good at basketball (a sport which requires an especially huge amount of competitive drive and aggression) and gravitated towards wide-receiver in football. I’m also a musician.

      However I am tall, have a deep voice, lots of facial hair, broad shoulders, a well-defined jawline (though still thin-boned, well short of lantern-jawed), large genitalia, and a high sex drive.

      Incidentally, digit ratio is surprisingly hard to eyeball, a difference of 0.1 inches is significant, and most people’s creases are at least that long.


  13. My experience is that they don’t fall for chickcrack and sweet talk.
    If you see a manjaw, a prominent ring finger or an abrasive personality, just cut the crap cause she won’t fall for it.
    Instead, one has to go full asshole (interrupting them, leading the convo, changing topics, hard negs and teasing…) until she starts to show signs of submission. Then, it’s kino time, and then comes the kiss, and then…

    I actually find them easier to game, because my feelings are in check (and I have no feelings towards domineering manjawed bitches), and I can easily avoid the classic beta mistakes such as smiling too much, agreeing with everything…

    The sad thing is that I’m surrounded with these kinds of women, they’re f’ing everywhere. They make good fwb and week-end bitches material, but I got emotional needs to fill, goddamn it.
    Luckily, there are feminine chicks who are (attractive,) shy and sweet. And even if the chateau transformed me into a sick bastard (and I love it, thanks), I still melt when I recognize one.

    I was saying something about chickcrack, it seems like a good indicator of the level of femininity (and vulnerability, which is a good feminine trait). I think a woman is less likely to be a good LTR/wife/mother if she doesn’t believe in palm reading, numerology or some other bullshit.

    [Heartiste: The biggest effect, besides horniness, that very feminine women have on men is that it makes men want to wrap these girls up in their arms and shield them from all worldly dangers. Masculine women, aka lawyercunts, inspire pile driving, and that’s about it.]


    • I wonder…high-T chicks seemed to me to do more chasing. They know what they like, so it’s like, if they’re not initially attracted to you based on whatever the organ-grinder playing monkey in their head likes, this so-called game can be a nice banana to make the high-t girl reconsider you.


      • That is my experience on the chasing issue. Not always but they are more prone to it and are more obvious in their attraction even when not a chaser. There also tends to be less drama and guessing games which can be nice.

        But they’ll also cheat at the drop of a hat. Just finished an affair with one and another is currently making her interest obvious. They are also both married.

        My experience is that the more intellectual verbal activity brings the best attraction. Wit can work wonders with them.


    • “The biggest effect that very feminine women have on men is that it makes men want to wrap these girls up in their arms and shield them from all worldly dangers …”

      Oh, that’s so cute. Is there anything I want more from a man? I think that from now on I’ll pretend that I’m feminine. Do only cute girls have this effect or also older feminine women? (like those over 25)


    • Don’t worry about it, us low ratio digit women can fight our own battles.


    • Why would believing in nonsense like palm reading make a woman a good mother?

      [Heartiste: It indicates a high level of femininity and, thus, a correspondingly high desire to nurture.]


      • More to the point perhaps, Heartiste, is Lynn, Harvey & Nyborg’s paper Average intelligence predicts atheism rate. Atheists, sadly, are generally left-leaning, and you know what that means in practice.

        So it follows that believers, though dumber, will make more natural partners and better mothers — if one can put up with mumbojumbo like palmistry, or memes like “everything happens for a reason”; such kookery is the deracinated equivalent of village women using hard-boiled eggs to determine the sex of the unborn, pawing rosaries, or worshiping the idols of the hearth.

        We might say, then, that folk believe is a reliable indicator of a feminine character with a specific social cost. Even Darwin sat in the pew.


      • Palm reading believing indicates femininity?!? If everyone would just get their palms read then they would realize just how much information the lines in ones hands reveal. It’s so scary, yet so cool!


      • The same is true for Astrology as well as Tarot. Moreover, they will be consistent with one another and work well in concert. The real problem is finding people who know what they’re doing with these arts. So many of the people who believe in astrology do so at an incredibly superficial level. There are about 10-15 really solid astrology books on the market but about 2000 total. Linda Goodman is not one of these. And as usual, the best astrologers are all men. Most people don’t want to bother to learn these arts and instead denigrate them out of ignorance. The same is true for religion. Our world is only partially mechanistic. Robert Hand is by far the best astrologer living, maybe in history. Contrary to what the biased here think, Astrology requires a great deal of intelligence and life experience to truly understand it. The Assyrian Magi were geniuses for inventing and developing this system. I have developed an excellent system of analysis for picking potential mates. I have a very high IQ, am schooled in technical subjects and excel at them, but have learned the universe has much remaining to be discovered about it. Atheists love to flatter themselves on their brainpower. I used to wonder how one could be a scientist and believe in God myself. Then I met a large number of Christians I learned were highly intelligent as I spoke with them. The same is true for adherents of all religions. Moreover, I have learned that history works itself out over millenia according to a plan, not years, decades, or even centuries.


      • Watch more Penn & Teller: Bullshit!


      • Spend more time around the military, FBI, Mormons, State Department, Defense Contractors, etc.


    • “I think a woman is less likely to be a good LTR/wife/mother if she doesn’t believe in palm reading, numerology or some other bullshit.”

      Seriously? Believing in this nonsense indicates stupidity not femininity.


      • You don’t know what you’re talking about. I use all of these tools successfully in my life on a regular basis. I have very successful life, career, and marriage. It reduces a great deal of stress to know the likely outcome of situations, especially negative ones.


  14. women aren’t attracted to men with high or low T. they’re attracted to men with low cortisol levels.

    Because cortisol levels are associated with social status. In primates, the monkeys at the top give the ones on the bottom shit. so the ones at the top have the lowest cortisol and the ones at the bottom have the highest. your cortisol levels tell them where you are on the pecking order and they can tell just by looking at you.


  15. In response to the twitter post about the National Review article:

    Regarding the spread of the Heartiste world view, take a look at the comments under that article. The vast majority that I read were good, anti-feminists comments that raised points that have all been touched on by the Chateau at some point.

    Is the tide really starting to turn, or is it just an illusion caused from selection bias and man-o-sphere members purposefully flooding the comment sections of such articles?

    Even on Reddit, the most beta of all sites, I have noticed a slightly more masculine tinge to the comments and contents.

    I’d be interested to hear other peoples thoughts on this matter.


    • Is the tide really starting to turn, or is it just an illusion caused from selection bias and man-o-sphere members purposefully flooding the comment sections of such articles?

      Mostly “flooding” by men in the know, I suspect. You can find every one of those commenters at Spearhead.

      Until it you hear it unbidden from the man on the street, or at your job, an idea has not reached mass saturation point. And I’ve never heard such ideas in any of the states in which I’ve resided. Of course saturation will vary by location, undoubtedly highest in popular urban centers like DC, NYC, etc.

      What you’re most likely to come across in real life, I suspect, is conventional game, not anti-feminism. However, the screenwriters and journos are CLEARLY cribbing from the man, or have been influenced by the EP-game ideosphere. CH is noting an instance every other day. I myself noticed The Office one, and wasn’t surprised to find it mentioned here the next day.

      Hasn’t reached the masses, but has reached a good portion of the cognitive class.


    • I think it is indeed turning because twenty years ago you were pilloried for even thinking these things. Now the smart men see the problems and the dumber ones are also catching on. It hasn’t translated into political success, but it has at least put Feminisnts on notice that they can’t just make stuff up and get away with it anymore, as they did for decades. They actually feel a bit nervous now that they have pushback.


  16. on November 30, 2011 at 5:50 pm Masculine or Feminine

    Check this out:

    Those dating sites are full of betas. . .every PUA knows you meet the girl for drinks around 10:00pm on a WEEKDAY.


  17. “masculine” woman really needs to be defined. I tend to like girls that played sports and like to go out and be sociable. not the most feminine, but usually fun and have nice bodies. But I want them to still be girls, and they usually are, just not as submissive as other girls.


    • I get the difference, I had two girls, same banging, non-manjaw, C cup, size 0, 5’2″ body types, but one obviously high-T, other low-T. They both loved the bone, but one would rather do shots of tequila than be wrapped up in my arms “protected from the world.” High-T girl indeed “regarded the male sexual organ as beautiful,” and wondered why her female friends thought dongs looked like yucky worms. Anyway, with high-T, there was no “arousing jealousy and instilling a fear of loss,” with her and the relationship (although I didn’t try to secure a LTR either). The relationship was short and sweet. It was also like when Seinfeld dated the girl who could talk her way out of or take care of anything. Would game have worked on her? maybe, but she knew what she wanted.


  18. What would be interesting to see is a batch of photos that show pics of women’s faces and hands. Then we could compare digit ratio to looks. We may learn something. Any out there?


  19. “Examine, for instance, the second conclusion in that study abstract above. Women resist mate guarding by high digit ratio (i.e., feminized) men (…)”

    Don’t know if anyone noticed before, but the correct is low digit ratio for lower testosterone rate. Just correcting.


    • High 2D:4D (Index:Ring) means lower prenatal testosterone.


      Index finger: 3.20 inches
      Ring finger: 3.36 inches
      Digit Ratio: 3.20 / 3.36 = 0.952 (masculine)


  20. OT, but a candid craigslist posting i saw today from a woman in the women-seeking-man section:

    I am so depressed about guys. I am older and it seems you become shit after 30? I am so empty and lost. Today I pretended like I was dead and nothing mattered anymore. I have tried everything and for a long, long time.

    From my experiences the only guys that like me are like super young, obese, Mexican, black, super old, and dorks. I often wonder what is my point for being here? Like I said I have tried every avenue. It pains me deeply to look and see couples everywhere and what I call the good-looking people are so happy and laughing. I wonder if this is a curse from God – or punishment for He knows how my heart aches 24-7 and I look back at the years gone by – and cry because I see that girl and how much she wanted to be with someone.

    It seems to me that now-a-days – men don’t want to have to do anything. They don’t want the responsibility of a relationship or have to do any of the work. They want sex for free – and nothing more. I learned that the hard way spending days laying out on my kitchen floor sobbing.

    I have read the books, articles, magazines and I know I am not ugly in fact very attractive. I am not 21 anymore, super, super thin, size 0, I am not tan and do not act like a teenager. I am low drama. I prefer to go without it.

    I wanted this man who was in and out of my life. He would just stop everything with me and disappear. Each time he did that – it was like mourning a death in the family. I wake up and this huge wave of grief and lose would wash over me. I am still mourning him. He was deep into my heart and being. Maybe he planned it that way. I just loved him so much. He did say a lot of hurtful things to me all the time – like how him and I weren’t mean to be – and the woman for him was out there – he just hadn’t found her yet. Then he would talk to me or ask me questions about marriage and telling me he wanted to see me more. Obviously he didn’t.

    So I am empty, lost, numb, and with each beat of my heart there is a definite pain that I feel. Everyone is like – oh it will get better – oh you will find someone – just be patient. Well to all those that said that to me – it has been ten years now. Should I expect anything else? And what really kills me is when single guys meet a girl they like – they tell me “oh me and my GIRLFRIEND are busy. How could someone be so lucky as to be called a girlfriend? and so soon?

    I have gone out with so many different people, shape and size. No one seemed a good match. The guys that I do like? They don’t show interest because they want this young Asian or 20 year old who is super skinny and sexy. I don’t know what is so wrong with me. I am smart – have a BA – I am single and have never lived with a guy before. I am very pretty and don’t look as old as I am.

    I don’t want to go through this life alone or with someone that creates a toxic relationship. I feel like my good days are behind me and that now that I am older – the rules of the game have changed. How is it that you see these not so pretty women with these gorgeous guys?? I’ve been to church, activities, online dating, friends of the family, you name it. I have even STOPPED looking because of that saying “when you aren’t looking you will find someone” well after 4 years – I decided that wasn’t working.

    Why me? Why must I be alone in my life and never be loved and treated with respect. All I wanted since I was a little girl was to be a mommy. I played with dolls for hours on end….

    I don’t know what else to say I guess. I think that suicide is a viable option. Just have to get up the nerve to do it. That is the hard part. I am old and will NEVER find a handsome man who loves me and thinks I am beautiful.

    Never will happen. I know you say well with that attitude you won’t – look – I have heard it all and have tried it all. I have been happy and positive only to find out they like my friend who is younger and prettier and not me.

    I don’t have cross-eyes or over-weight. I don’t have scars on my face of a huge abnormality on my face. I don’t smell.

    I think – just hold on for one more day – like that song. Ok – I hold on – and guess what – sos. Same ol shit. Ok hold on for the next day. Ok – nothing has changed. Hold on for just one more day – ok – nothing has changed.

    Like I said – it has been a decade and i still haven’t met anyone. Guys like I said – don’t want to do the work. They just want the sex and that is it. They don’t want a relationship or emotional baggage to deal with. They don’t care nor want to invest anytime into someone – unless they are Asian, beautiful, super-skinny and young.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Wouldn’t it be a cruel, yet almost humorous, twist of karma should the suicide rate for American women climb to untold heights in the decades to come?


      • I hope it does.


      • That wouldn’t be humorous. And to the comment below, just because this CL post validates the worldview we all share doesn’t mean there aren’t real life human consequences for the transformation society is undergoing. It’s real and we’re dealing with it, but there’s no cause to celebrate when the reality of a savage dating market genuinely ruins lives.


    • Link? She might want to hear from the Chateau’s readers. Might cheer her up.
      She’s 30 and says she’s attractive, if so then it’s her attitude that is causing men to bail. If that’s the case, then she still needs to have people let her know she’s got to come correct, or get cats.


      • “She’s 30 and says she’s attractive …”

        Yes, she’s not very modest but I understand her pain. I think almost every girl who is single and over 25 ends up like this woman (of course here we only focus on the small minority (?) of deluded feminists who apparently don’t need anyone).


    • She should militate to change the divorce laws. But no, blaming these evil male creatures is so much easier.

      (She also should’ve considered marrying a 30 yo guy when she was 19, but that cock carousel looked so yummy).


      • Blaming evil male creatures is much easier, yes. As is blaming selfish female creatures.

        “(She also should’ve considered marrying a 30 yo guy when she was 19, but that cock carousel looked so yummy).”

        Most kids at 19 are not smart enough to make plans and decisions like that. Especially when the whole culture shames your common sense.


    • The tears are delicious.

      All that, and it’s still not her fault. It’s men’s fault for being such assholes (but then, who would want such an asshole?) and it’s their fault for liking slim women with sunny dispositions.


      • Yes, her tears fall like rain.


      • Her boyfriend really was an asshole so it’s no surprise that she now thinks all men are like that. Also, nobody warned her against assholes or that men only want a young hot wife (how could she know that?).


      • She chose that asshole boyfriend. There were plenty of good men surrounding her in her town and county where she was living. So why should people feel sorry for her because she chose the jerk? She had 12 years(18-30) to see all of the good quality men around her and go after them. They were probably too boring for her. The asshole gave her the drama she was looking for. And now she is trying to play the victim. Cry me a river.


    • That is the most depressing story I’ve ever read than didn’t involve abuse or murder.


    • “Why me? Why must I be alone in my life and never be loved and treated with respect. All I wanted since I was a little girl was to be a mommy. I played with dolls for hours on end….”

      Then you grew up and “tried every avenue”, likely allowing them all to explore your every avenue. Tucker Max rhymes with Goldman Sachs.

      Her focus on Asian girls suggests she’s living in the Northwest, probably SeaTac or Vancouver. Doubtless a Democrat who votes for the wholesale abolition of peoplehood (voting Republican = slower rate).

      Fifty years of spurning and dismantling normalcy, now they all stand around, as though shell-shocked by bombardment of their own bullshit, frazzled and wondering why they can’t have a measure of it.


      • I was going to guess San Francisco. The city has a small number of traditional Alpha males (SF has tons of geeky tech types and hipsters) relative to the overall male population. And the whole Asian girl with white guys thing seems to suggest SF as well.


    • “From my experiences the only guys that like me are like super young, obese, Mexican, black, super old, and dorks. I often wonder what is my point for being here?”

      This is obvious signalling, but also probably the rationalization hamster at work in a woman who comes off as psychotically self-centered and lacking any humility.

      But she is only 30, and could probably get a decent man if she changed her attitude and lost some weight.

      Also please DON’T post the link here. She sounds like she is depressed, and talks about suicide. A barrage of angry emails might send her over the edge.

      The appropriate reaction is to feel sorry for her.


    • “I am old and will NEVER find a handsome man who loves me and thinks I am beautiful.”

      “Guys like I said – don’t want to do the work. They just want the sex and that is it. They don’t want a relationship or emotional baggage to deal with. They don’t care nor want to invest anytime into someone – unless they are Asian, beautiful, super-skinny and young.”

      AKA: “I’m aging and old and I want a handsome man. Why are handsome men into beautiful and young skinny chicks? its not fair!”


      • «AKA: “I’m aging and old and I want a handsome man. Why are handsome men into beautiful and young skinny chicks? its not fair!”»

        She claims that she is 30 and attractive. But the problem is indeed the one you summarize one way. I talk with a lot of girls like that and my summary is:

        “so you only want a relationship with guys who are out of your league and have many options for relationships with better girls than you?”

        Time to repost here the link to the MOST IMPORTANT GRAPH IN THE HISTORY OF DATING (I think it was posted some time ago by Heartiste or some similar blog):

        The graph that shows that women rate 80% of men as below average looking (and women are well known to infer several other things from “looks”) and that there are essentially no male 9s or 10s is the essential “red pill” story.


    • man fuck this chick. the whole soliloquy is “me me me me MEMEMEME I I this-that and I”.

      its no wonder some of the most fucked up people live entirely in their heads. does this chick volunteer with the hungry, homeless or abused? i doubt it highly. has she ever given value to society without any expectation of a tangible reward? unlikely. does she contribute to and genuinely engage with the world, and all its avenues and opportunities?

      she mentions the many men who are still interested in her: “super young, obese, Mexican, black, super old, and dorks” (i understand her not being down w fatsos though), yet they are guys she won’t consider because they don’t fit in her dream demographic. and when she was young i bet she wouldn’t give many legitimate suitors the time of day. I’ve met these women. living it up during their prime years and ignoring anyone without the flash and dash to keep them entertained. its amazing how bitter they become when their sexual value plummets with age, as if the world owes them something for all their aloofness and should reward them for their failure to plan their futures with a realistic mating strategy. its sad, in that there are ppl in this world who are so deluded, so narcissistic. but feel sorry for her as a person? not-a-chance. the truly ironic thing though, is that id bet if she stepped out of her navel gazing stupor she might actually meet someone, rather than lamenting how no one she notices is worth her time.


      • Good comment.


      • Most women don’t do the things you say, especially the pretty ones. Women are passive in nature and expect men to come to them. Many are truly incapable of decisive action.


      • that’s true, and its the nature of the beast in many cases (agree that it is especially common in beautiful women). ive been with many gorgeous girls who had their entire worldview shaped around the fact they had numerous orbiters literally chauffering them around, buying them dinners and acting as though their looks were the only thing that mattered as a person. these girls are ruined by treating such betatude as a mirror (which creates an artificial and twisted superficial image) and don’t realize its a short-term and high-risk strategy contingent entirely on meeting the right guy before the desirability window closes and ensuring that he sticks around. i don’t think its inherently womens fault, although i would certainly blame them to a significant degree for the short sightedness of emphasizing looks above all else during the crucial years of mental and emotional development.


      • I could only imagine what it must be like to be a beautiful woman.

        From 16-27 (or so), everything in your life gets handed to you;

        – Attend university with lower grades than your male classmates (for some stupid reason).
        – Likely have an easier time getting a job and you’ll get promoted quicker (I worked for the government, trust me; the amount of preferential treatment beautiful women get over everyone else is staggering…from no one caring if you’re late or take long lunches, how many sick days you take, making more money than less-appealing women, how shoddy your work is or which client you pissed off, it’s all carte blanche).
        – People (mostly men trying to fuck you) will buy you things.
        – Getting to pick and choose when and with whom you get to have sex. Game is powerful, but all the game in the world doesn’t get men that privilege.
        – A legion of betas and orbiters at your beck and call who will not only do your bidding, but will gleefully take up with you when you decide you’re tired of getting fucked and chucked and want ‘a relationship’.

        And then a few years later, it’s gone. If this girl is as beautiful as she says she is (knowing how women attempt to think about and evaluate their beauty, I’d say that’s likely a negative…for the sake of argument, let’s say she was a 7 in her prime), then what probably happened was this;

        – Had 1-2 steady boyfriends in high school, including the first man in.
        – Went to college at 18. Slutted around for the first 2 years and spent the last two in a mix of slutting and LTRs with betas. All of that validation from men would sow the seeds of her current massive entitlement complex.
        – Graduated, dumped her boyfriend, moved to the city. She is 22 now.
        – Sat on a different man’s cock every 4-8 weeks for the next 5-6 years; battled numerous pregnancy and STD scares.
        – A few years ago she notices she’s getting less wolf-whistles and men approaching her, dread begins to kick in. Attempts to ‘find a handsome man and start something serious’, but still fucks on the first date.
        – Today…contemplating suicide.


      • That’s why they need fathers and sensible mothers to teach them these lessons. Beauty without sense gets taken advantage of.


    • the only guys that like me are like super young, obese, Mexican, black, super old, and dorks …

      All I wanted since I was a little girl was to be a mommy.

      … a handsome man who loves me and thinks I am beautiful …

      Translation: So ronery. No Betas need apply.

      On the one hand, I feel genuine sympathy for her obvious pain. On the other: You had it coming, bitch.


    • My guess is that you have your Venus in Cancer. They often suffer a Madame Butterfly fate, if not there are other influences that can cause this. If you’d like, I can give you a free analysis. Just provide a birthdate, time, and location, each as accurate as possible. You also have focused too much on that one Alpha in your life and refuse to see the men who like you as viable candidates.


    • “I have gone out with so many different people, shape and size. No one seemed a good match. The guys that I do like? They don’t show interest because they want this young Asian or 20 year old who is super skinny and sexy. ”

      Notice she never specifies the type of guys she likes…oh wait she did say the following:

      “I am old and will never find a HANDSOME man who loves me and thinks I am beautiful.”

      “How is it that you see these not so pretty women with these GORGEOUS guys?”

      She wants to hate on guys for wanting to be with hot young girls yet it seems attractiveness is high up on her list. Fuck her. I’m sure she passed over many guys that didn’t meet all the things on her grocery list when she was younger. If you don’t want to settle then that’s fine but please don’t fucking cry about it.

      “Guys like I said – don’t want to do the work. They just want the sex and that is it. They don’t want a relationship or emotional baggage to deal with. They don’t care nor want to invest anytime into someone…”

      That first sentence is what pisses me off about the way many women think. I already have a job so why am I looking for more “work” in my personal time?
      I mean really, she admits that being in a relationship with a women (her) is not easy and involves emotional baggage. This entire rant by her is proof positive that she is anything but drama-free. If the only thing you have to offer is a bunch of problems then I want nothing to do with you.


    • “Why me? Why must I be alone in my life and never be loved and treated with respect. I think – just hold on for one more day – like that song. Ok – I hold on – and guess what – sos. Same ol shit. Ok hold on for the next day. Ok – nothing has changed. Hold on for just one more day – ok – nothing has changed. ”

      Welcome to a beta’s life from age 13-30something (until he either acquires game or someone settles for him). Enjoy your payback.


    • I’m a woman and I find it hard to muster up any pity here – while she seems genuinely upset, she gives herself away more than once throughout this self-pitying rant. It’s not that she’s lonely and NO man will have her – it’s that no man who meets up to her standards will have her. Well, welcome to the real world, sweetheart.

      Something about this irritates me:

      “They don’t care nor want to invest anytime into someone – unless they are Asian, beautiful, super-skinny and young.” Oh, those terrible men!

      But wait…

      “From my experiences the only guys that like me are like super young, obese, Mexican, black, super old, and dorks.”

      “I am old and will NEVER find a handsome man who loves me and thinks I am beautiful.”

      Sounds an awful lot like she doesn’t care, nor want to invest time into a man unless they’re handsome, presumably white, the right age, not ‘dorky’ (perish the thought!) and so on – I’m sure the list is even longer than she has let on. How utterly unfair of them to not be willing to see her as ‘beautiful’ (because omg, you guys, she’s actually -really- pretty, why do men keep passing over her?!) and kiss the ground she walks on acccordingly. I mean, with this shining, modest, positive outlook of hers, I bet she’s real fun to have around, what with all that doesn’t-look-as-old-as-she-is beauty she claims to have.


    • I have to agree, these kinds of letters are dramafests. Women seldom commit suicide either, they threaten it for attention. Drama queens like this are secretly looking for someone to call them on it, not unlike a child throwing a temper tantrum. If you do, you can have a hot submissive women with a constant need for reassurance. One can easily train such women to give head on demand, because they internalize it as a means of reassuring themselves. She needs some hard negs early on. My guess is the man she pines after did exactly this as well as sugar coated it with enough beta to make her happy. He probably got tired of having to deal with the constant drama. She needs to think about what she wants in a man and look for it where they can be found. That’s not likely to happen either because Mr. Right is supposed to knock on her door. . Also, if you have one like this hooked, flaking out occassionally and being willing to walk each time they flake works wonders in making them easier to deal with. Carrot and a stick approach.


  21. If you want to do an at-home test, here’s a nifty link on how to measure your fingers and calculate the ratio:

    Double-checked measurements and it’s very interesting how my ratio IS in fact correlated with my body. It would certainly be cool if people with extreme ratios could confirm the theories at an individual level at least.


    • Sure, I’ll bite.
      One glance is enough to ascertain that the index fingers on both my hands are considerable longer than the ring fingers, a sign of being exposed to more estrogen than testosterone. So the ratio is higher than 1, and I’ll guess something like 1.05.
      I’m male, 1.82 cm tall (about average in my country).
      Penis length when erect is 20 cm (much longer than average).
      I’m more literate than numerical, and usually score off the scale on the literacy part of IQ and aptitude tests.
      MBTI personality type is INFJ, sometimes test as INTJ.
      People find my voice to be deep.
      I consider myself significantly less aggressive than most other men in social interactions.
      I’m straight and prefer the more feminine faces in the brain sex test.

      So in my case, some of the predictions would be correct, and it seems that most are not.


    • I have no ruler right now, but from eyeballing my hand, the ring finger is much shorter than the index. I have a big Tweety Bird forehead, very small chin, jaw and nose. My mouth is small but the lips are full. Waist is smaller than my hips; average sized bust and shoulders. My hands and feet are weirdly small for my height. My voice however is in the low range for a woman ( alto.) I have almost no competitive drive to the point that it’s a fault. Still have bad memories from high school PE class. I’m reasonably well coordinated but dreaded when they made me play things like soccer, field hockey or lacrosse. I deliberately avoided having the ball because I couldn’t stand the feeling of everyone charging at me. When driving I never speed and have zero tendency towards road rage. I do have a short fuse when backed into a corner.


  22. I read this post, then used measuring tape to find the digit ratios of both my sister and me. The ratio came out exactly the same for both of us, 0.923.

    We are very different,though. Despite being supposedly high-T, I have a very feminine face, an hourglass figure, and am very shy. I would say that the only thing masculine about me is my hatred for romantic comedies and astrology (I was raised by an engineer with an impatience for nonsense), and a dislike of makeup.

    My sister looks a lot like me, but has more defined cheekbones and jaw (not really a manjaw), smaller eyes, slightly bigger nose, and thinner lips. She has an hourglass shape, but she is aggressive, loud, and is quite the tomboy. She even walks like a boy.

    If we were both exposed to similar amounts of testosterone in the womb, I wonder why it seemed to affect her more than me.

    On a similar note, I am curious about digit ratios in women according to race/ethnicity. If an Asian woman, a White woman, and a Black woman each had similar digit ratios, would their levels of phenotypically-expressed masculinity be similar? Or are there varying levels of testosterone sensitivity amongst the different raced?

    [Heartiste: Good question. My guess: there would be broad racial differences.]


    • Again, it’s about averages. A high-T girl is simply *more likely* to be masculine.

      But I knew women had a thing against averages.


    • on December 1, 2011 at 3:29 pm (r)Evoluzione

      Re: differences between you & your sis–your digit ratio is close, so your in-utero exposure to hormones was very similar–same mom, no surprise.

      Thus differences in phenotype in similar environment has more to do with genes & gene expression. There are so many variables, it’s tough to suss out. Birth order can be one important factor. Who’s older, miss Fu, you or your more Butch sister?


      • I’m 27 and my sister is 17.

        I think our upbringings may help explain differences in gene expression. When I was born, my parents were new immigrants and VERY paranoid about life in the US; they fiercely restricted my activities and interactions with others. This probably triggered the anxiety that I still deal with, and high anxiety means high cortisol levels, which reduces testosterone. My parents were a lot more relaxed with my little sister, and she doesn’t she is very laidback (too much so, really).
        Additionally, she has been involved in competitive softball for five years, and naturally she has been more masculine since then.


  23. I know a girl who fits this long nosed, short-haired, small titted thing to a T (no pun intended). Haven’t checked her finger ratio yet, but I know she’s in her mid-twenties and had no problem sharing with the world that she celebrated her 100th dick on valentine’s day.

    Her legs were made of dense meat, and she’s a squirter. Nice ass on that one too.


  24. I am a guy, and I have a high ratio (longer index finger than ring). I have noticed I was very submissive as a kid, so that makes sense there. I did whatever kids told me to do.

    However, I think that during puberty I must have received a lot of testosterone. I have one of the deepest voices of anyone that I know and am much more prone to anger, and in general not giving a fuck.


  25. […] Here’s a portent of the future for hypergamous female college graduates. […]


  26. What is the digit ratio is equal? What then? Hmm?


  27. I came close to getting into some RL trouble when I gave detailed advice (way back on USENET) to a “depressed fat woman” regarding the size of plastic sheeting she would need to contain the epic mess that would slosh and ooze out of her if she ever did the thing with a knife that I was encouraging her to do.
    But she was more of a troll than I was at the time and so nothing very interesting happened.


  28. […] New scientific study. Published: December 1, 2011 Leave a Comment Name: Required […]


  29. Masculine women suck.

    They are about as attractive, conversely of course, as a feminine male dweeb.


  30. Female, high ratio (longer index finger than ring). Very girly girl in appearance, not prone to anger at all (can’t stay mad at anyone, rarely get angry and never raise my voice) but highly prone to guilt. By nature, I am very susceptible to game and my kindness/submissiveness turned into a weakness in relationships when I was younger (because being gamed turned me into an insecure headcase).

    It’s taken some hard knocks and wisdom to, well, temper that. I’m still caring/submissive but I’ve taught myself not to be possessive or insecure. It’s a cliche, but I’ve learned to “let things go,” just push out certain doubts and not bring them up, and just let the guy live his life. As far as receptiveness to game, I’m still very receptive to it, the difference is I’ve learned to regard it as a good dance where he’s leading and I’m willingly and happily following instead of a situation where I’m the victim.


  31. Allot of guys need more information on how to game masculine women. Especially places where feminism is very prominent, women tend to show allot of masculine behaviors and are raised with the psychology of men. It’s like your seducing a guy so allot of men are not prepared for this weird scenario. Ball busting chicks who take the lead and try to show you that they have bigger balls than you.


  32. on December 1, 2011 at 2:19 pm recovering beta

    unrealistic expectations much? we all go through this but don’t we also usually have a bug meets windshield moment that clues us into the fact that things weren’t quite gonna work out the way we like.

    another point is an unwillingness to sacrifice is apparent. everything good in life requires commitment, sacrifice, perseverance, and often focus, discipline, and self-control.

    I can’t feel sorry for her. She chased a bad guy who gave plenty of clues, and she feels she’s too good for the myriad of men who still pursue her. If she want s to stay single cuz none of these guys can get her rocks off, that’s fine, just don’t bitch about it.


  33. Married a cute 20 yo virgin. 22 years and three kids later. The oldest two are sons and naturals. The youngest is a daughter and God help any boy she brings home. Any girls reading this. Find a real Christian man early. Marry him and stay loyal. Best chance of happiness. My wife of many moons still giggles when I tease her.

    The Patriarchy.


  34. Plus we are part of the producing end of society. Knock down several 6ks a year. Doing honest labor.


  35. Several six figures for those not familiar with the South TX vernacular.


  36. Just read the main thread and had to comment. Maybe someone already did:
    “In addition, the study found that high digit ratio (i.e., highly feminine) women are more possessive of their boyfriends. Why would this be so? Presumably, feminine women would have more options on the dating market, so they would have less reason to be possessive within a relationship. But you have to look at both sides of the couple equation. Feminine women likely partner with masculine men — sexual polarity is the most potent attractant in the known universe, besting even black hole gravitational pull — and these are the kind of men who have more opportunity to cheat when the cheatin’s good.”

    It did not say they were more likely to be monogamous, only that they were more possessive. She could have 5 guys on here chain, and is possessive of all of them, lashing out at any woman she sees trying to take one from her.

    [Heartiste: Sure, that’s theoretically possible, but in practice women tend not to get possessive over more than one man at a time.]


  37. I think that long term monagamous women tend to age better. My 43 year old wife still gets hit on. I still get middle of the night bj’s. And the few days a month she gets bitchy. She profusely apoligises for. I’ve had other opportunities, but still stay on the porch. She is smart enough to realize all men are dogs. She is extremely jealous. I taught her how to shoot. And she is a better pistol shot than I am. Did I fuck up?


  38. I think long term monogamous women age better. She has only been with me. She’s 43 and still gets hit on. She has a low level sense of dread. I have had opportunities but I haven’t. She is smart enough to know all men are dogs, and does her best to keep me on the porch.


  39. Sorry for the double post.


  40. The digit ratio is not correlated with adult estrogen or testosterone levels ( The ratio affects male and female face shape patterns, but the relationship is three times more intense in men than in women, and the regression in females wasn’t statistically significant ( Men’s average ratios are only 0.25 standard deviations higher than women’s. The distributions between lesbians and straight women are different, but essentially overlapping ( There is huge ethnic variation between digit ratios (

    The digit ratio is interesting and can certainly predict behaviors/traits on a population level, but ratio distributions between different groups overlap so much that I don’t see how it would be particularly informative to tailor a guy’s “game”


  41. “Instead of getting married again, I’m going to find a woman I don’t like and just give her a house.”
    –Rod Stewart


  42. It should be noted that this digit ratio is for the RIGHT hand, and not the left hand. In this regards, a lower 2d:4d ratio is also indicative of penis length –

    On the LEFT hand a longer index finger to ring finger ratio (2d:4d) tells you that the person’s mother was a smoker, and that due to this the person has blood sugar regulation problems. This correlates into flaky (sometimes irrational) behavior, mood swings, inability to concentrate, etc.


  43. Actually, feminine women are more prone to cheating on their partners than masculine women because it’s easy to steal them from their man. Feminine women can get laid easily. So expect feminine women to cheat and spank them if they do. Women are property of men.


  44. I got a big question…

    I went to a bar one night and ran into a girl who asked me for my hand. So I gave her my hand.

    Apparently, my ring fingers are longer than my index fingers. So she told me I have a big dick.

    Does this mean I’m a low-ratio guy?


  45. Racial differences are quite pronounced.
    – Black women are much more masculine in behavior. I’ve only been with a few, but they’ve all been both hornier and more aggressive, generally; game had to be harder and tighter, with a lot more cocky in cocky humor.

    – White women compared to asian women: In all cases, the Asian women were far more feminine. They were, despite claims by Asian guys, far more subject to game than white women, as a rule; but game had to be more highly calibrated and calculated. Generally more fragile is a good bet.

    Incidentally, they absolutely respond well to hyper-masculinity.


  46. […] Does Game Work Less Well On Masculine Women? ( MoreDiggEmailShare on TumblrLike this:LikeBe the first to like this post. Tags: Brassiere, Dating, Girl, Jerry Seinfeld, Kay Hymowitz, Manning, Marc Jacobs, masculinity, People, relationships, Women Permalink […]