White Knighting Explained

There is a popular theory that white knighters — those men who jump at the chance to defend the virtue of women at every opportunity, no matter if the defense is warranted — are beta males who hope their stirring gallantry will get them into women’s panties. Offering a shoulder to cry on or an indignant word after an asshole hurts the girl of their dreams, these men turn themselves into emotional tampons with the goal of sneaking into the pussy when she is at her most vulnerable.

They usually fail, but they keep at it because once in a blue moon, it works. Yes, most men with some choice in women would balk at spending so much time and effort trying to tap a reticent snatch, and at the cost of so much dignity, but the white knighter emo dude has the patience of a saint. Or a eunuch.

But, honestly, how many guys like this do you see in real life? They exist, sure, but not in the numbers assumed. Especially after college, when adult men simply don’t have the time to waste on platonically orbiting a oneitis who can juggle ten blue balls at once.

Instead, I’d like to offer some different explanations for the white knight phenomenon.

The Oblivious Super Alpha Male

Surprisingly few alpha males — those men who are good with women — are white knighters. Experience with women disabuses such men of any romantic notions of the fairer sex. You will hardly ever hear an alpha male praising the sublime virtues of women because he knows they have none (as a gender). But a few alpha males do embrace the white knight schtick. These are the snobby guys who have had no trouble getting women since they can remember, and are so high status that they have never seen the seedy, gritty, grimy part of women’s natures. Women are extra careful around very high status men to present only their sanitized best, so the super alpha never gets to know the annoying shit that women put typical men through. As a result, he is genuinely perplexed when he hears other men complain about women’s behavior, and feels a compulsion to rush to the women’s defense.

The Father of a Daughter

He knows better, but because he has a female charge under his supervision and caretaking, he hypocritically enforces social sanctions against lifting the veil on women’s true sexual natures. This is as much for his benefit as his daughter’s. If beta males stopped white knighting for his daughter, she would be nakedly exposed to the merciless vagaries of the dating market, and suitors would not bend over backwards to please his daughter with gifts of myrrh and golden pedestals. It is in a a father’s interest for young men to glorify his precious little princess, and provide for her and her dalliances with the DJ.

The Married Schlub/”I’m in a relationship” Guy

You know that lifeless herb who has been married for so long that he doesn’t remember what it was like to be single and on the prowl for pussy? Or how about that oddly proud guy who can’t wait to blurt out at the flimsiest excuse that he’s in a relationship? A lot of white knighters are drawn from this group of men, because being in a marriage or long term relationship clouds a man’s perceptiveness of women. Like heated molecules in a chamber, LTRs tend to settle from a high entropy state into a comfortable equilibrium of Netflix queues, sushi and missionary style. Men in these testes-shriveling circumstances lose their powers of observation and begin to assume all women are just like their contented, faithful (and aging) partners. It’s a classic case of psychological projection, whereby men ensconced in secure relationships project their limited experience with their wives or girlfriends onto all of womankind. These men are often the most infuriating white knighters, because when you listen to them blab on and on about “treating women with respect” and all the good women that are out there, you know that as soon as they get cheated on or dumped by their cow girlfriends they’ll be blaming themselves right to the grave.

The Male Feminist

Similar to the gallant bait-and-switch beta males, male feminists are their ideological cousins who try to ingratiate themselves to the slutty fat feminists in their company in hopes of tapping some water balloon-shaped vulvae. These guys wear shirts that say “this is what a feminist looks like” and cross their legs when they sit. They are huge hypocrites, because despite having been on the receiving end of a lot of female neglect, manipulation and shit testing, they still cling to their unctuous little ideology. Ideologues are auto-brainwashed. They will never see the light. Best just to enjoy a cruel laugh at their expense.

The Self-Denier

Imagine a plush beta male who has experienced nothing but woe with women. He has been LJBFed, ignored, pitied, humored, used, dumped and drained of all his resources except his balls. He’s not repulsive to women, but he just doesn’t much turn them on, and he can’t figure out why. He grows bitter with the years and the fat chicks and wrinkly cougars he manages to bang as a consolation prize. The truth about women stares him in the face — in fact, smacks him upside the head every day — and yet he clings to platitudes and juvenile romantic idealism with all his power, afraid that should he let go, his whole dating life will be revealed for the sham it is. In self-deception, there is sanity. Oftentimes, the most emphatically dogmatic white knighters are these hopeless losers in love, teetering on the precipice of revelation, a hairsbreadth away from total ego meltdown.

The Deeply Embedded Gene Machine

Underlying it all is the genetic machinery that propels groups and nations of men in different sociosexual directions. Fittingly, white knighting appears to be predominately an ethnically European white man disease. Those schooled in the science of evolutionary psychology would say that harsh winters evolved a modern European man predisposed to monogamy and, hence, to jealously guarding the virtue of his mate. White knighting and pedestalizing thus serve the dual functions of artificially boosting the perceived value of a potential lifelong mate, and of warning male interlopers away.

There are too many forces in motion that keep white knighting alive and relevant, so unless outposts like this humble blog go global with the truth about women, there is almost no chance that more than an enlightened minority of men will wake up to reality.





Comments


  1. No evolutionary story here.

    Anyway, there are legions of Asian white knighters. They occupy the high ground and lob missiles at targets they dislike. Of course, their missiles are made of paper and spit, so they just bounce off armor.

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  2. I generally do not interfere in the affairs of others, but there have been a few times when I’ve intervened where I thought the lady in question was in actual, physical danger.

    I know more now about the legal and physical risks of such intervention now than I did the last time this happened, (and I certainly know about the risks even the police take when intervening in domestic affairs) but I’m also better prepared to deal with it.

    In any event, in most cases all I had to do was show that there was a witness, willing to intervene, and that was sufficient.

    Is this sort of thing still white knighting? When one hears screams for help, or sees a bigger, stronger male subduing an obviously struggling female, do we walk on past lest we fall prey to our dark beta urges?

    [Editor: Your answer:

    http://roissy.wordpress.com/2007/08/21/help-not-wanted/ ]

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  3. My working definition of applied white knighting is simple: to put oneself or a third party at a disadvantage to assist an undeserving woman.

    What’s sad is that white knighters fail to understand that real (white) knights of old had no illusions as to womens’ sinful nature, did not treat whores with deference, and did not hesitate to have an unfaithful wife’s head cut off.

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  4. Part of the American roots of white knighting go back to pioneer days when the ratio of males to females ran against males. Women were in short supply on the frontier from the time of the Puritans and the Virginian settlers to present day Alaska but with ocassional periods of gender equilibrium.

    That made it tough for an alpha to get away with much since there was always another alpha there to outbid him. Plus, a man with a woman HAD to fight to keep her at times since to the victor goes the ‘tang.

    Today there are standards of social behavior that need to be lived up to but a man needs to be skeptical of the woman’s causation before jumping in. One can be a white knight at times just don’t expect to be rewarded with the wet and warm embrace.

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  5. on June 1, 2011 at 1:13 pm Basil Ransom

    White Knighting: Treating a girl better than you would a man, because she is a girl.

    I’ve noticed some women are outright resentful of men who don’t WK. They’re used to men who suck up to them, and when one doesn’t, they seethe with contempt.

    “Is this sort of thing still white knighting?”

    Would you intercede if it was a man, assuming the same physical disadvantage? If yes then it’s not.

    You should do a post on how White Knights are the equivalent of sluts in the sexual marketplace:

    WK: Spend time and money on girls without getting sex.
    Slut: Sleep with men without getting their time, money and commitment.

    WK: Other men hate them, because they raise the buying price for sex
    Sluts: Other women hate them, because they let men get sex without commitment and investments.

    “Fittingly, white knighting appears to be predominately an ethnically European white man disease.”
    False. Plenty of NAMs suck up to women. Quality slacking.

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  6. Asians. Even worse than euro-white.

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  7. on June 1, 2011 at 1:20 pm A. Nonny.mous

    Pretty lies.

    Mass media has enforced the whtie knighting ideal, and fathers (if around) are too afraid or emasculated to tell their sons the truth.

    By the time you get out of that brainwashed loop, its almost too late.

    Almost.

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  8. “outposts like this humble blog go global”

    I recently noticed that when I google the word ‘roissy’, Citizen Renegade is no longer the top search return. to find this blog I must now add the keyword ‘wordpress’ to get this blog to show up in a google search. lame.

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  9. As always, spot on.

    I fucking hate “in a relationship” white-knighters most of all, I know way too many of those kinds of dudes.

    Most (99%) of them lack game, and are all too content to stick with the significantly less attractive girl they managed to snag.

    Sexual dynamics being as they are, the girls, being not good looking, are grateful they got a man and treat him as such, blinding your friend to the realities of dealing with actually attractive girls. His only frame of reference is the 3 or 4 who treats him (for awhile, at least) like a king.

    Furthermore, like you pointed out, your friend usually ends up losing his balls anyway since he’s needy and lacks abundance mentality, often resulting in getting cheated on.

    Nevertheless, they are always right there to tisk-tisk you and talk shit about you for your “bad” ways, “misogyny”, being a player, etc.

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  10. Its been my experience that white knighting is far too prevalent among my generation(I’m 25), but is easily cured with one simple thought; “AllWomen are whores. Except your mother”
    When you realize that all women are carnal creatures the world opens to you.
    As for being a white knight, Ill help a women if shes the victim of a crime, but as my friend said once “unless shes getting gang trained by a line of somali pirates, I a’int putting down my pint”

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  11. on June 1, 2011 at 1:31 pm Ave Veritas

    There are few behaviors more contemptible than WK’ing. I would be lying if I were to say I’ve not taken pleasure in physically laying low the wk pussies who have tried to “correct” me for disrespecting fat sluts that needed to be brought back to reality.

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  12. Wishful thinking is clouding your judgement: Alpha white-knighters are not rare. You assuming alphas are somehow interested in siding with other men. In fact high status men are the instruments of enforcing the pedestalization standards.

    Alpha white-knighters know the nature of women – but they white knight regardless because it derails the competition.

    If you are gaming a girl – asshole style – and I out-rank you – I can just ‘white knight’ you in front of her, and since I outrank you she will jump mercilessly on the bandwagon.

    I can then proceed to being a double asshole with no trouble.

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  13. Basil makes a very good point and an easy way to differentiate between white knighting and simply helping someone – what would you do if it was a man instead of a woman? There’s no shame in being a good person.

    [Editor: Men don’t usually return to their attackers to sex them up.]

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  14. “Fittingly, white knighting appears to be predominately an ethnically European white man disease. “

    And the further north in Europe you go, the worse it gets. Norway is a white-knight insane asylum. It is suffering from a plague of prostitution, with men being grabbed by aggressive hookers on the streets of Oslo, but the laws are powerless to charge the prostitute with anything – only pimps, traffickers, landlords and clients can be charged (and then presumably only if they are male).

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  15. I am the father of a daughter, so that may explain it, but the times I white knight it is because I prefer to live in a civil society. If you’re acting the shithead, move it away from me.

    It is (as a tangental aside) like the current fashion for tilting the chin up, “Whass up,” compared to the men of my father’s generation, who did the nod and hat tip. I admit I try to do the nod, because there is a classic elegance that traditional gender roles I like.

    Courtesy and respect and all of those ideals that one thinks of from the pinnacle of the West (early 1960s) have been destroyed by feminism and statism. But for me this is a hill to stand on.

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  16. I was a White Knighter in my early 20s. I was also a Fixer.

    I’ve come to the conclusion that there are no accidents in the world when it comes to how women are treated. I have yet to meet a woman who was truly harmed through chance. In reality, women who come into drama do so because they took risks that had the possibility of drama rank higher than the possibility of success or profit.

    If a woman asks me for help, I’ll ask her “Where’s my profit?” Dealing with women is like dealing with any investment: if you’re going to invest and take a risk, the reward better be good and it better be likely. No one likes to lose on their investment, even if it’s time. My time is more precious than my money, come to think of it.

    Sidenote: If a woman learns a lesson from her drama, I’ll respect her. In reality, most women return to the source of drama that becomes constants in their lives. That’s actually the source of my lack of respect for 4 out of 5 females I meet.

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  17. Where does this scenario fit ….

    You’re in a bar with friends. Some guy you don’t know does something to one of the girls in the group for no reason. Could be: he bumps her out of the way, mutters something vile while passing, something overtly rude, etc. If you’re the king of your group it’s a challenge to you. A test to see if you let it go. To see if you’re weak. If none of the males react he’ll directly begin challenging them then suggest to the women they should be with him.

    So, if you deck him right off does that make you a white knight?

    [Editor: Good example. I’d point out that this isn’t so much white knighting as it is plain old dealing with douchebaggery. You’ll have to face him down. A simple “Problems, bro?” should nix any escalation in the bud. I wouldn’t push it to a fight, unless the guy is really belligerent. Best bet is to signal to the bartender who will then signal to the doorman. If you know the bartender, all the better. Action will be prompt.]

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  18. on June 1, 2011 at 1:58 pm CatoRenasci

    In some societies, what you call white-knighting can be as much aspirational (and not unique to women) as anything else: the old all the brothers are brave, and all the sisters are virtuous way of setting standards for the group, where meeting those standards is important for the group. Military society tends to to that, even if members know not everyone can live up to it, because it makes (almost) everyone a little better.

    I think the ‘Father of a Daughter’ is usually operating in something of the same spirit, with the added benefit he’s adding to the daughter’s social value — the sooner to be mated off to the highest value male possible who will treat her decently.

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  19. white knighting is like taking a vote.

    all explainations to the “paradox of voting” apply to the the paradox of white knighting

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_voting

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  20. on June 1, 2011 at 2:03 pm flyingsquirrel

    @Woof: Yes that probably makes you a WK (and likely arrested). Three questions:

    1) If one of the dudes in your group got disrespected, would you react the same way, a la Basil’s question above?

    2) Define “vile” and “rude”?

    3) Why do you see this as a challenge to yourself?

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  21. @Tyrtaeus – As a man who also has daughters and enjoys civil society, I have to agree. I also think it’s silly that the concept of white knighting has been defined down to include simple manners. Not every opened door is a sign of servitude. I wrote on the subject a while back if you’re interested in a different take.

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  22. @Woof: If I’m with a group at a bar, I make that assumption that everyone there is an adult, knows the risks of being in a bar with alcohol flowing, and has accepted the repercussions that those risks entail. If some asshole comes plowing through my group, that’s a risk. It happens, and there’s nothing I would do to try to admonish the prick.

    If I’m on a date with a gal and she gets pummeled by some asshole, I wouldn’t make a move without some considerations first. I’d ask myself questions before acting: was she in the pathway of people? Was he drunk and not cognizant of his actions? Was it a move to try to betafy me?

    There’s no simple answer, but if it’s a group outing, everyone is responsible for themselves in an environment that carries risks. In a one-on-one outing, there are many variables to consider before making the decision to counter-attack.

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  23. Yes there is indeed still a place for treating humans like humans. However behaving like an animal or service to appease a woman needs to end. NOW.

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  24. on June 1, 2011 at 2:15 pm CatoRenasci

    The alpha Father of Daughters doesn’t (necessarily) want to defend women generally, he wants to establish the ground rules for other men in dealing with his daughter. My daughter is under my protection, and I’m letting you borrow her for a while. Hurt her, and you’re dealing with me.

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  25. I wonder what I am. I have white-knighted, but I have shagged a lot of women, relying mostly on my looks, and not enough on game.

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  26. My older brother once beat up the babydaddy of a friends’ 2 kids.
    The babydaddy had physically abused the girl and he felt he had to get rid of the guy or face the ridicule and shame from people in the neighborhood and her family.

    Weeks after they were back together and we found out that the abuse was mutual.

    The girl was trying to get her life back together when in december she found out she was pregnant with her 3rd child, by the abusive babydaddy.

    My older brother has distance himself from the girl and her family.

    The woman won’t learn and you’ll have a target on your back.
    It ain’t worth it.

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  27. on June 1, 2011 at 2:34 pm Basil Ransom

    Courtesy and respect and all of those ideals that one thinks of from the pinnacle of the West (early 1960s) have been destroyed by feminism and statism. But for me this is a hill to stand on.

    Tyrtaeus, you missed the part where the women of the fifties got wet for wife beaters like Stanley Kowalski.

    Pedestalizing the past

    Woof, who gives a ****? Let her deal with it. Why do you feel the need to protect her?

    I tend towards being a black knight – helping men when I wouldn’t if it were a woman. The man will be grateful, and the woman will just use the occasion to butter up her ego.

    As Roosh has said, helping a woman makes it harder to sleep with her, so I don’t help. And not because I want to sleep with her per se, but because she actively punishes benevolence. You are now a lesser man to her, having done it.

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  28. on June 1, 2011 at 2:35 pm Josef Jonze

    A.B Dada is right on the money. Most women who have bad experiences usually have only their piss poor decisions and judgement to blamed. I knew a woman who was gang raped, terrible thing no woman should go through and it was because she hung in a shady circle and consumed lots of booze and drugs around unsavory characters. If you lie with dogs you will get fleas, it’s that simple, unfortunately.

    White Knighting isn’t simply an anglo phenomenon-it’s pancultural. I’m Latino, we are revered and shamed for our machismo. However, I know tons of latin dudes who fit all of roissy’s wk descriptions.

    I would also like to add that most of the white knights listed are usually the biggest cock blockers. In fact, i beg of roissy to write something on the different type of cock blockers and how to diffuse them.

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  29. DJMoore

    Misogynist. Let our equals deal with their ‘sister’s’ problem. How dare you think only a man can help a women out of danger.

    LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

    Unless you are close to nailing them, then that might close the deal.

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  30. Why the relative effectiveness of different game strategies are difficult to measure- the “game” is fixed. Women want to hook up with men.

    @Dj asks why he has shagged girls despite his white knighting…because girls want to have sex with men.

    I think the “act natural” school and even the white knighting school could probably claim some success, because most sexual hookups are based on opportunity and social circles. See the post from a couple days ago about ivy leaguers marrying ivy leaguers, for example.

    The real test is whether any particular strategy can deliver girls that would otherwise be outside of your objective looks and status. I know people on here claim to get girls 2 points above their own looks, and that game is a form of status itself, but I don’t know any guys in the 5-6 range getting 7-8 level girls. Not acting like an emasculated wimp can maybe get you a point above your natural station, but I think opportunity far outweighs any particular implementation of a game theory. I hope I’m wrong. The paradigm I’ve seen play out most frequently is 70% opportunity (she’s availabe, you’re available and within a point of one another on looks), 30% not blowing it by saying or doing something needy or stupid.

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  31. Unless I’m misreading, you’re describing men who defend women as a whole in general. Taking the side of women in debate, for instance. That’s a pretty specialized definition.

    What I would call a “white knight” would be a guy who comes to the rescue when a specific event occurs. I contend that in these cases, it actually *is* an alpha move, because 9 times out 10, it isn’t done with the specific hope of somehow bedding a grateful damsel distress (now formerly in distress,) but is rather the primal fight-club element coming out in a justified way. Yes, it’s usually to “rescue” a woman, but that’s because they’re the more typical victims.

    And what guy doesn’t have a fantasy of someday saving a girl from rape? Yes, in the dream the girl is hot, but the fantasy still works even if the girl is old or ugly.

    It fulfills an urge to flex one’s muscles, if you will. Speaking from personal experience, there’s a thrill to it, but it’s generally not sexual, at least not primarily.

    With that said, I do agree with your premise that white knighting with the intent of pleasing a girl is usually a bad idea and can paint you as a beta.

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  32. Most of us are frustrated in a way or another, because our society restrain us most of the time and most of the occasions.

    White knight is just a hanster excuse to project outside the frustration in a violent way.

    Those people lack self control and if they see a man and a woman arguing they do not hesitate to attack the man just to enjoy beating a weaker one and finding a social excuse. Cops are stellar example in that.

    No one is a white knight if it could mean attack a bigger one.

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  33. *hamster

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  34. famous video a girl slaps a man, he rightly responds and he is attacked by bigger one than himself

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  35. “Netflix queues, sushi and missionary style” doesn’t sound half bad for a weekday routine. As long as I can rotate out the female stock I do it with every couple of days.

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  36. White Knighting, of any variety, is simply one more facet of Beta Game.

    A Beta male’s “game” focuses primarily on identifying and assimilating themselves to become more in accord with the stated desires of what the women they hope to connect with are. The methodology dictates that the Beta be perceived as being unique (or at least set apart) from the more perceptually “common” Alpha males whom his desired women naturally and behaviorally prefer. This is the beginning of the “not-like-other-guys” mental appreciation he hopes to evoke in his idealized woman.

    Due to his inability to compete with an Alpha competitor in the physical, he must fight a psychological battle on his own terms. This involves convincing his target that her best parental investment should be with him (as per her stated requirements) as he more closely embodies and reflects her long term prerequisites. The Beta likens himself to her in an effort to maximize his compatibility and familiarity with her and the feminine. Getting in touch with his “feminine side” is Beta Game.

    This identification process is then further reinforced through the feminine social conventions he subscribes to. Feminine society (both beta men and women) rewards him for more closely resembling its ideal – be more like an archetypal woman; sensitive, empathic, emotional, security-seeking, etc.. And not only this, but take feminine offense when presented with anything to the contrary of a female-positive perspective. The theory is lift women up, become less so they become more, and in reciprocation she’s more apt to breed with the Beta.

    That’s the principle, not necessarily the reality. In some ways it’s a Cap’n Save a Ho mentality written on a grand scale. The fallacy in this is the assumption that like attracts like. They fail to understand that opposites attract, and most women don’t want to marry other women, least of all a carbon copy of herself.

    When presented with a competitor of superior status, both sex’s innate, subconscious reaction is to disqualify that competitor from breeding in as expedient a method as possible. For animals this usually involves some kind of courtship performance or outright hostility. And while the same could be said for human beings, our natural social impulse requires we take a bit more social tact.

    While most men (Alpha or Beta) will make similar attempts to disqualify, the Beta’s methodology ties back into his need for feminine identification in his disqualifying a competitor. Essentially he relies on feminine ways of disqualification by drawing upon his likeness to the women he hopes to emulate (thus furthering potential attraction as he thinks). His competitor must be cast as inferior to himself due to his competitor’s inability (or lessened ability) to identify with his desired female. Ergo a natural Alpha must be disqualified based upon his Alpha qualities.

    With Alpha competitors, the field has already been plowed for him by feminine social conventions, all he need do is plant the seeds. The fact that the Alpha tends to embody the masculine opposite of what he’s embraced also feeds this drive. “Women aren’t attracted to the macho tough guy, they want a man who’s kind and thoughtful; a good listener, etc.”. So the natural recourse is to amplify this disparity – “That dumb jock,he’s a 1950’s neanderthal throwback, he’s “bitter”, he’s a misogynist, he’s a child in a man’s body with a fragile ego only interested in fucking women and moving on.” He’s unlike anything on women’s collective stated list of prerequisites for an acceptable male. He must be ridiculed – as all women ridicule – for his selfish hyper-masculinity.

    Furthermore, the Beta needs to make the Alpha seem common, while making himself seem unique; a White Knight savior. In order to effectively AMOG an Alpha, to poach women from his virtual harem, the Beta believes his virtue is in showing his empathy for the feminine, and she must appreciate it or it’s been all for nothing (which it usually is). Not only is this an ego preservation mechanism, but it’s also perceived as a tool for achieving the desired sexual reciprocation / appreciation he desires.

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  37. on June 1, 2011 at 3:25 pm Basil Ransom

    [Editor: Good example. I’d point out that this isn’t so much white knighting as it is plain old dealing with douchebaggery. You’ll have to face him down. A simple “Problems, bro?” should nix any escalation in the bud. I wouldn’t push it to a fight, unless the guy is really belligerent. Best bet is to signal to the bartender who will then signal to the doorman. If you know the bartender, all the better. Action will be prompt.]

    In this post: White Knight explains how to White Knight.

    [Editor: When a douchebag interrupts your mixed group to say something rude to one of the girls, he’s being rude to the men in the group by proxy. That is his intention; to push the men to fight or flight. This scenario goes beyond rescuing some chick friend from an insulting dude.]

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  38. “the science of evolutionary psychology”

    science huh

    funny

    [Editor: It’s more scientific than the polite wisdom.]

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  39. Whatever happened to Zeets? Give is the deets.

    Is “Heartiste” to be pronounced like “Hearteeste” as in the Irish James Joyce Dubliners idiom?

    I need to know. I can’t sleep until I know.

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  40. Funny how similar the act of white knighting is to the anti-whites leaping to the rescue of minorities to defend them from any accurate reflections on their character.

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  41. @Riffdog Betas are more aggressive than alphas. They have low self esteem and an unstable social status so they regularly pick fights. Almost all men have a primal fight instinct, and the beta primal fight instinct is pretty strong.

    The idea that because someone is fighting they must be alpha and thereful women’s pussies will explode with juice for them- it’s false.

    Winning fights can do that for certain women if you like to dumpster dive.

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  42. on June 1, 2011 at 3:40 pm CatoRenasci

    Funny how similar the act of white knighting is to the anti-whites leaping to the rescue of minorities to defend them from any accurate reflections on their character.

    Almost off topic, but political correctness may be the ultimate beta move.

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  43. @ Basil Ransom
    You should do a post on how White Knights are the equivalent of sluts in the sexual marketplace:

    WK: Spend time and money on girls without getting sex.
    Slut: Sleep with men without getting their time, money and commitment.

    WK: Other men hate them, because they raise the buying price for sex
    Sluts: Other women hate them, because they let men get sex without commitment and investments.

    This is a great observation. Do you have a blog?

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  44. You forgot white knights who _are_ considered repulsive by women.

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  45. Bravo, Editor, re: “Problems, bro” response. Great move. You’re drawing a soft line and forcing him to either make an offensive move, or turn to schlub and disappear. If he considers an attack, he’s just been given a warning, and that’s likely to be dismissed because no weak creature warns a stronger one. His likely small-brain response will be a weak retort and removing himself from a possible threat.

    Treat cocky shit talking beta males like any cock shit testing female: say few words and let them run out of steam in response.

    Again, bravo.

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  46. Rollo Tomasi nails the beta mentality. Although the emasculating feminization he describes isn’t always the beta’s strategy. Sometimes the beta will attempt to disqualify the higher ranking male, set himself apart as something scarce or unique, without being sensitive, a good listener, highlighting provider traits… Sense of humor, allusions to higher class/education/status, ability to connect with a girl without being a gay friend about it…

    Any guy who has tried for a hot girl has experienced being outgunned by a competitor. When a man is outgunned, what are his options?

    One idea is to play the numbers, fight the oneitis tendency and concede. Move on to the next girl or play aloof and hope that the higher ranking guy says or does something stupid and disqualifies himself. But if you want to stay in the game, there doesn’t seem to be a lot of options, other than the beta strategy or a modified form of it.

    My own strategy: do not draw attention to the alpha traits where you are outgunned. Stick to your strengths. If the guy has you beat on height, overall size and looks generally, don’t draw attention to those qualities. Attempts at putting the competitor’s superior traits down will be counterproductive. If her interest seems to be waning, or attention drawn elsewhere, do not reveal any reaction to this, and silently punish her by withholding full attention. I’ll be honest: when outgunned, I usually lose.

    Like


  47. @Tyrtaeus

    Courtesy and respect and all of those ideals that one thinks of from the pinnacle of the West (early 1960s) have been destroyed by feminism and statism. But for me this is a hill to stand on.

    Fine, if you’re being gender-neutral with this. But to afford women special gentlemanly treatment merely because they possess vaginas marks you as a chump. Women gave up their side of this social contract beginning in the 1960s, so for you to white knight on the sake of principle does nothing but signal to today’s women that you are a sucker to be ignored or, at best, taken advantage of.

    By all means, teach your daughter to encourage gentlemanly behavior in her suitors. But that’s only going to be honest and a benefit to society if she’s not simultaneously giving her sexual signals and attentions to the jerks and cads.

    Like


  48. The worst is when a man white knights for a woman against another woman. Sometimes stepping in between a man and a woman who are not a couple can be okay. Men tend to be able to deal with other men more diplomatically than women can.

    Like


  49. A.B. Dada

    If I’m on a date with a gal and she gets pummeled by some asshole, I wouldn’t make a move without some considerations first. I’d ask myself questions before acting: was she in the pathway of people? Was he drunk and not cognizant of his actions? Was it a move to try to betafy me?

    There’s no simple answer, but if it’s a group outing, everyone is responsible for themselves in an environment that carries risks. In a one-on-one outing, there are many variables to consider before making the decision to counter-attack.

    While you’re weighing all these shades of gray in your head, the asshole has come back, is sidled up to your girlfriend or hottie of your group and whispering in her ear, making her laugh, exchanging numbers, etc. And why not? There’s no man at your table who will object to his caveman intrusion.

    [Editor: If the girl isn’t with anyone in your group and she’s enjoying the caveman’s company, then let them be. You had your chance with her before he showed up, and she clearly gets wet for assholes. Interfering in this scenario is apt to mark you as a tool.]

    Like


  50. @Rollo Tomassi
    “That dumb jock,he’s a 1950′s neanderthal throwback, he’s “bitter”, he’s a misogynist, he’s a child in a man’s body with a fragile ego only interested in fucking women and moving on.”

    Yes. We sometimes bad mouth the men we like the best just because we enjoy talking about them.

    Like


  51. Sidewinder: learning wit and paternalistic communication skills can help in a gunfight. Although I’m usually happy to back off if I see another alpha strutting for some new gal, sometimes it’s good to get your practice in.

    Being able to discount a competitor through the utilization of certain verbal responses can increase your value while decreasing his, i.e. making it appear that you’re his boss or mentor. It’s not any easy skill to master, and I do it better in business competition than a gunfight over tail, but it’s at least an area I know I can work on and reap a profit.

    Even if he’s taller and better looking, there are ways to trap him using his own faulty language skills. Don’t strut superiority, but use their own words like you’re the foundation holding them up. This won’t work with low IQ tail, but it works surprisingly well with the typical college grad broads.

    Like


  52. I think CR is right on that one. Getting possessive over a girl who is clearly enjoying the attention from another man is playing into her hands and it makes you look beta. Let her be the one to end the conversation with him which she can easily do.

    Like


  53. Lara: and so what if another guy is talking up your girl? If I’m with a woman, I know I’m taking her home. Plus, I’ve had a life-long attraction to Spanish women (the tall and slim type), and if you know the type, they love the spotlight in public (dancing with any man that asks, flirtatious talking, etc) but they *only* go home with the strong leader type who nudges them around off the dance floor. I don’t care if a guy tries to vulture my women, if I act like they’re going home with me, they are.

    2 years ago a gal I was seeing gave a guy in a bar her number when she was with me. I didn’t blink or complain, but I knocked her down to bottom status (basically, sex at my place, no public outings) and she’s tried for 2 years to climb back up. She shit tested me and lost — not because I’m jealous or insecure, but because she disrespected me and can’t exactly figure out how. No need for me to explain or bring it up, I’m fine with our once or twice a month escapades on my couch or in my office. Her loss, and she knows it.

    Like


  54. on June 1, 2011 at 4:53 pm Corporal Hicks

    Let’s get back to Traveller’s video of the Indian girl getting violent against the guy and then receiving a slap herself.

    Notice the reactions of the audience Betas. They immediately go to HER to see if she’s OK, while the guy gets attacked by a bigger dude.

    She then walks off the set in a daze, holding the right side of her face, no doubt thinking, “But what did I do? What did I do to deserve that?”

    Uh, dearie, you got violent and received violence in return, that’s what.

    Like


  55. @ Rolla Tomassi:

    Wow. Excellent insight, dude. You should write a post for sure.

    Seriously. Sums things up.

    My 2 cents: WKs are dangerous, coiled springs of violence because they have either been programmed to defend without thinking, or are whipped and controlled by the more vicious sex, or are just plain assholes.

    Best to neutralize them by showing them you are willing and able to take things ‘to the next level’ should they try and start something with you.

    Meaning control the debate, maintain deadeye contact and ignore whenever possible.

    Like


  56. on June 1, 2011 at 5:37 pm Timothy Webster

    About Asian white knights; VERY common. Back in the day, I noticed with Filipino chicks, they only had to squeal, and a horde of Filipino men would rush up to defend them and punish the miscreant. Even though they knew nothing other than the woman was squealing and pointing at a man.

    This stopped happening once the girls realized I was white, and not one of them.

    Like


  57. on June 1, 2011 at 5:40 pm Timothy Webster

    Notice, in the Travellers video of the Indian chick. Same thing happened; a whole bunch of guys crowded around the male slapper until he curled up on the ground and started sobbing. You couldn’t see him curled up, but you could hear the sobbing, and deduce the rest by the body positioning of the mob of beta males.

    I would think this is related to the shortage of women in India, but the Philippines has a surplus, and the behavior is IDENTICAL. So that isn’t the reason.

    PS: I think the woman was shit-testing the wrestler. How would Chateau handle such a shit test? Slapping back was obviously for teh fail.

    Like


  58. Another point to consider is the propaganda apparatus which tells men that if they rescue the princess they will get the “happy ever after.” This takes different forms, such as women complaining about ill-treatment by men with the assumption that if only a NiceGuy(tm) would come along, said NiceGuy(tm) would thereby get the girl. Of course, what no one seems to ask is why our princesses chose the BadBoy(tm) in the first place.

    Look at the movie Star Wars: Attack of the Clone: the queen/senator/whatever Amidala falls for Anakin Skywalker only after he slaughters a bunch of civilians and starts on the path to total evil. The message may be subtle or not, but Lucas was dead on about what makes too many women tingle.

    Now that we have the internet, and websites which explain these unpleasant truths, more men are waking up. Fear not, the final chapter has yet to be written.

    Like


  59. While you’re weighing all these shades of gray in your head, the asshole has come back, is sidled up to your girlfriend or hottie of your group and whispering in her ear, making her laugh, exchanging numbers, etc. And why not? There’s no man at your table who will object to his caveman intrusion.

    [Editor: If the girl isn’t with anyone in your group and she’s enjoying the caveman’s company, then let them be. You had your chance with her before he showed up, and she clearly gets wet for assholes. Interfering in this scenario is apt to mark you as a tool.]

    Fair enough if you’re out with a mixed group of friends. But it’d be foolish not to deflect an outsider’s possible AMOG attempt on your own date or girlfriend (the situation Dada was presenting), out of some kind of SWPL sense of fairness or uncertainty. He’s standing by running morally equivalent scenarios in his head while the interloper is running game on the SWPL’s date.

    Like


  60. @A.B. Dada

    2 years ago a gal I was seeing gave a guy in a bar her number when she was with me. I didn’t blink or complain, but I knocked her down to bottom status (basically, sex at my place, no public outings) and she’s tried for 2 years to climb back up. She shit tested me and lost — not because I’m jealous or insecure, but because she disrespected me and can’t exactly figure out how. No need for me to explain or bring it up, I’m fine with our once or twice a month escapades on my couch or in my office. Her loss, and she knows it.

    This was well-handled. I’d probably move back to condoms with her too, if there’s any question she’s getting some on the side.

    Like


  61. Roissy, good post but the evolutionary psychology references are totally out of sync.

    That’s an area of “psychology” that’s good for a good laugh but hardly a reliable source for scientific information.

    Even evolutionist Stephen Jay Gould had problems with it.

    [Editor: Gould was a quack who had an emotional reaction against the conclusions evo psych was drawing.]

    Like


  62. on June 1, 2011 at 7:27 pm Joey Giraud

    “White Knighting” has an evolutionary advantage. Men who delude themselves into believing the mother of his kids is a goddess will stick around longer and help the kids survive.

    If we’re slaves to our natures, then admire the White Knight for his evolutionary existence.

    After all, Game isn’t natural behaviour, it’s conscious and intentional.

    [Editor: Everything is natural behavior if it occurs in the natural world.]

    Like


  63. on June 1, 2011 at 7:33 pm Joey Giraud

    “LTRs tend to settle from a high entropy state into a comfortable equilibrium of Netflix queues, sushi and missionary style. “

    Excellent example of “Chataeu’s” sucky grasp of science.

    Made me cringe. Mission accomplished, right?

    Like


  64. on June 1, 2011 at 7:35 pm Joey Giraud

    “[Editor: Everything is natural behavior if it occurs in the natural world.]”

    Tautological.

    [Editor: And true.]

    I’m not dissing Game. Your larger point is correct. White knight behaviour is pretty silly in the modern world.

    [When women became economically and procreatively independent, white knighting behavior became self-defeating.]

    Like


  65. bahahaha yea I know a few of those guys, Especially the Self-Denier.

    I can only think of one exception… an old friend of mine goes out of the way to portray himself as an idealistic white-knight romantic who will say he is a virgin if anyone asks…. and yet I can’t think of a time he was dating/banging 3+ women at the same time. but thats the only exception i’ve met. and i’m pretty sure he’s a clinical sociopath.

    lucky bastard

    (still confounds me to this day)

    Like


  66. Oh… and these girls are gorgeous too.

    Like


  67. Genuinely not trolling or trying to be confrontational, but doesn’t Giraud have a point? I don’t see how or why white-knighting wouldn’t have been ingrained into the male mind in general (as most MRAs would say) as a useful adaptation. Since women, in all countries, European or not, have been more valuable to reproduction than men are, it stands to reason men of any color would defend them out of hand. After all, even in Africa or Mexico or wherever, the tribe that stood by and laughed when a woman was killed would eventually find itself without anyone to bear its children, while a tribe which protected the ladies (and didn’t kill the women and girls when it conquered another tribe) would enjoy a growth in population.

    Pardon me for popping in, of course. Feel free to delete this comment if it’s just plain stupid, O gracious master of the crimson arts.

    Like


  68. Did I fuck up and beta backslide?

    Girl I’m seeing now for 6 months and banging at least twice a week is clearly becoming an ingenue….

    Guys somehow find her doe-eyed innocence so alluring they’re always asking for her number or giving her their number.

    In one case, a so-called friend of mine was hitting on her. She told me…she always tells me. It’s starting to drive me nuts and I think my occasional flashes of anger may be beta.

    But in the case of the friend hitting on her, I had a very calm but firm word with him about not shitting where I eat and cut him off.

    In another case, at a party, some shlub starting hitting on her and actually took my seat beside her while I was up getting a drink.

    When I got back he was there, she was kind of just acting oblivious to the attention.

    But I said to him: “Dude….” and he got up and left.

    She said “oh he’s hitting on me and asked for my number.”

    I later had a word with the guy about making the ladies feel creeped out.

    But did I over-step? Is this beta backsliding?

    On one hand I can’t stand it.

    On the other, her comment “Oh, you’re making it so other guys don’t talk to me…” seems to reveal a kind of deeper motivation on her part.

    I was thinking on some level I was defending her honor aka “white knighting”…She’s Asian, so I was in some way thinking I was doing the manly thing.

    Now….after reading this I think I stepped into beta-land.

    How do I recover?

    Like


  69. @A.B. Dada/Rollo

    “”If I’m on a date with a gal and she gets pummeled by some asshole, I wouldn’t make a move without some considerations first. I’d ask myself questions before acting: was she in the pathway of people? Was he drunk and not cognizant of his actions? Was it a move to try to betafy me?””

    This happens on occasion because my girl appears to love the attention while at the same time being dismissive of it.

    Once some old guy asked her for her number while she was DJ’ing. He did it in front of me. She gave it to him because she “didn’t know what else to do…” He called a day later, askeed her for lunch, she got creeped out.

    I later told her clearly and firmly this was not what I expect of a girl I’m seeing.

    A few days later we came out to a party. She and I are sitting together and old guy comes by and greets her nervously in that European greeting of a kiss on the cheek.

    I smile and raise my eyebrow to him.

    He starts to realize she’s with me. But he awkwardly goes in for the kiss on the second cheek.

    I smile again and say “Dude…one’s enough….”

    Later she told me he had approached her asking her “Who’s that guy is he your boyfriend etc etc”.

    In that situation I think I acted more alpha.

    But the fact that she’s somehow inviting this kind of attention and then feigning disgust and dispite more displeasure with it, somehow continues to let it fester is something I’m frankly at a loss to deal with.

    Do I start openly flirting and talking about other women?

    I do get hit on quite often, but never bring it up. Should I start? How to do it without sounding beta?

    Like


  70. Aren’t white knights made in jr. high and high school? There were the good looking jocks, assorted cute guys, and badasses who got most of the girls, while what little was left usually went to the WK/Nice guys.

    I think these are lessons most men learn at an early age, and they usually last a lifetime.

    Like


  71. How do I submit an article to chateau?

    here is one speaking of white nights, no longer beauty myth, but the aging myth by Naomi Wolfe

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/a-wrinkle-in-time-twenty-years-after-the-beauty-myth-naomi-wolf-addresses-the-aging-myth/2011/05/11/AGiEhvCH_story.html

    Like


  72. the article I posted is the most total cougar BS and hamster wheeling I have seen in a while, it’s filled it

    Like


  73. You got the entropy wrong about the married schlub. He would go from a state of low entropy to to high entropy.

    Like


  74. Good article Roissy. This really explains well there are alpha white knighters. It makes sense, since if you’re getting sex and women treat you well you don’t really have any reason to think about this sort of stuff.

    Quite frankly, its the betas who do this that disgust me. They get shat upon and they still hold on to their delusions.

    Like


  75. Wanderer:
    “I don’t see how or why white-knighting wouldn’t have been ingrained into the male mind in general (as most MRAs would say) as a useful adaptation. Since women, in all countries, European or not, have been more valuable to reproduction than men are, it stands to reason men of any color would defend them out of hand.”

    In traditional society you defended women who were virtuous, or could plausibly be assumed to be virtuous. Non virtuous women were treated like public toilets.

    Like


  76. Lesson 5 at 1:25, does that count as White Knighting?

    Like


  77. on June 1, 2011 at 9:40 pm Athlone McGinnis

    The ultimate example of an Oblivious Super Alpha Male: Hank Moody on “Californication”.

    Gets more poon than he can handle with next to no effort on his part thanks to a masterfully cocky-funny persona, and yet white knights for women (even when they get him arrested, steal his work, try to destroy his family, sleep with other guys, etc, etc) every chance that he gets. He consistently waxes on and on about their higher natures (especially when it comes to his wife who is like a goddess to him) and remains entirely oblivious to anything they do wrong.

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  78. walawala

    On the other, her comment “Oh, you’re making it so other guys don’t talk to me…” seems to reveal a kind of deeper motivation on her part.

    Tell her to not talk to guys while she is with you. When she is with you, she is with you.

    If she is going to flirt with guys, she doesn’t have to be a fucking bitch about it. And she IS being a fucking bitch. You have every right to both be angry and to show anger. Anger is not beta. Not being angry is beta.

    Like


  79. James:

    This is true, but no woman is virtuous, or at least could be assumed as such by anyone knowing of their “true nature,” at least if our host is even remotely correct. The fact that any men anywhere could even imagine any of the “bipedal incubators” (not my word) as even capable of having any virtues ought to indicate that the whiteknighting impulse is rooted in more than the European and Asian’s heritage.

    Like


  80. Bostan bruins
    You’re gonna get ruined

    Go Canucks Go

    Like


  81. “Friends With Benefits? Study Finds Sex and Friendship Don’t Mix,” by Jordan Boughrum, FYI Living, 19 MAy 2011

    http://fyiliving.com/mental-health/relationships/sex/friends-with-benefits-study-finds-sex-and-friendship-dont-mix/

    “As this study pointed out, women more than men expect the relationship to go somewhere else, this doesn’t mean men can’t also get hurt. In fact, many men take the ‘friend’ route in hopes to one day date their friend. … “

    Like


  82. What should the self-denier do now that he’s no longer a whiteknighter? Yet still stays in the same state? Any way to bang the chicks he wants?

    Like


  83. on June 1, 2011 at 10:56 pm Ed the Department Head

    Great post Roissy! 100% dead on.

    @Mats
    “Roissy, good post but the evolutionary psychology references are totally out of sync.

    That’s an area of “psychology” that’s good for a good laugh but hardly a reliable source for scientific information.

    Even evolutionist Stephen Jay Gould had problems with it.”

    Evolutionary psychology is totally accurate. Stephen Jay Gould was simply a Marxist egalitarian who mislead his audience for political considerations:
    http://www.eugenics.net/papers/jprnr.html

    Like


  84. Californication is a TV show!!! Not real life…. and doesn’t apply to this thread man.

    Like


  85. on June 1, 2011 at 11:19 pm LDub the troll

    Seriously, great article! The other day in the subway I saw some herb help a mother carry her baby stroller up a long flight of stairs. What a WKing little sack of shit pussy!!! This type of behavior can’t be tolerated – disgusting.

    Like


  86. LDub, ya trollin’.

    Like


  87. Walawala: I think you’ve done the beta backslide, sorry to say it. Glad you noticed and queried.

    My thoughts…

    1. When and why did you stop flirting with other women while with your woman? You’re just being friendly, don’t ever stop.

    2. If a woman I’m with wants to flirt with other guys, I backstop her advances in rank versus other women I’m seeing. Flirting gets them on time-out in the corner for a few weeks (note: I never say why I’m too busy to see them), giving out their number gets them demoted to sex-at-my-place “dates” until I feel they’re worthy to be seen in public with me. Again, I never tell them what caused the change, I just demote them.

    3. I’m sensing oneitis here with you. I would never take a woman to a party if I didn’t have other women I’m seeing. No woman I date goes to two parties in a row with me, hell I want to juggle it up. I took my best gal to an office party 2 months ago and she got called the wrong names 3 times. She’s never flirted with another guy in front of me because she subconsciously knows the outcome.

    4. I never defend my territory to another guy. If a guy asks if someone is my girlfriend, the answer is “No, but I’m the one who will be fucking her tonight.” If a gal tells me someone asked her if I was her boyfriend, my reply is “My God I hope you didn’t say yes” with a crooked smile.

    Don’t mix women with friends too much. Make sure you have options in who you take to parties, and don’t be afraid to go alone often. Oneitis creates beta backsliding. Defending your role is beta. If a guy hits on my gal in front of me and her response isn’t to cuddle up against me and smile, she’s not into me enough. That’s a truth, no matter how into her you are. She just became “just tail.”

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  88. WK started as an act of chivalry — when the peerage would protect peer pussy from the common louts.

    It didn’t get started in America.

    The strongest domain of WK’ing was the SOUTH.

    c.f. Gone With the Wind…

    In the antebellum Alphas would defend the ‘honor’ / body cavities of elite women — only — against the ravages of the common man — and slaves.

    The earliest babes in the gold fields were whores — every last one. Proper women stayed the hell away from the gold fields. ( Rough country to begin with )

    Hence, ‘Angels Camps’ exist all over the foothills of California. ( Love that euphemism. )

    The remaining women were with their families — and in the house virtually all day. White Knighting was impossible. No man ever stuck his nose into another’s family business — without risk of gun play. ( As in shot in the back )

    Hollywood brought WK into the public mind as a chick-flick meme. It’s a 20th Century phenomena as far as the common man is concerned.

    Like


  89. in the ‘now’ context, white knighting is maladaptive, like our proclivity for sugar and gambling

    the only girls i know who like white knights are girls that don’t get white knight zerg rushed all the time (hot girls get WKZ rushed all the time)

    Like


  90. on June 2, 2011 at 12:33 am Good Luck Chuck

    One of the unfortunate effects of our white knighting culture is that it encourages women to act with impunity.

    Like the night some chick tried to jump in front of me in the hot dog line in front of the bar at 3am. First I politely reminded her that the end of the line was about 8 people back. When she returned to try it again a minute later I made myself a little bit more clear by raising my voice and pointing to the back of the line.

    Her response was priceless. “Bubububut I have a THREE YEAR OLD at home!!……”

    I could have asked her if that line actually works on some guys, but I think I know the answer.

    A couple of minutes later one of the dudes who was behind me in line came up to me to shake my hand and congratulate me.

    It’s the small victories that matter, fellas.

    Like


  91. I’m in the “self denier” category – I even label myself a romantic idealist. And despite reading Roissy for over a year now and recognizing where his lessons match my observations and experiences, I’m unwilling to let go of my romantic idealism.

    As much as I find this blog objectionable, I can’t say it’s wrong – as much I want to.

    I agree with Tyrtaeus when he says “for me this is a hill to stand on.” White knighting is part of a larger belief in traditional manly virtue and ethical order. Pull out that strand and what happens to the rest of the tapestry? Put in context, when I was a soldier, I took the 7 Army values and my duties very seriously as well. However, applying the same approach outside the Army has been more praised than rewarded, not unlike the feedback in my romantic life.

    Like


  92. Brilliant post splainin the beta strategy, Rollo.

    It seems we’ve all been there.

    Like


  93. Heartsie wrote: There is a popular theory that white knighters — those men who jump at the chance to defend the virtue of women at every opportunity, no matter if the defense is warranted — are beta males who hope their stirring gallantry will get them into women’s panties.

    Women’s virtue should be defended, when warranted. It’s not “beta” to protect the weak. Men who intervene on behalf of women do not by definition “hope their stirring gallantry will get them into women’s panties.” We do it because it is the honorable course of action. Do overeager betabeavers overdo it? Yes, just like they overdo everything in their lives in which they were poorly trained.

    Coming to the aid of a woman in distress is precisely the sort of manly intercession that forces a renegotiation of the lose-lose bargain of feminism. It carries an implicit acknowledgment of female weakness, which is why Second Wave harpies snarl at you for holding doors. To crusade against “white knighting” is a perverse side effect of an ungrounded, selfish anti-feminism. And it’s further proof that a certain “pick up” mindset will justify anything and jettison any principle on a whim (just like a flighty woman might), including the very principles that, if promoted, would restore a proper state of mind back to the dominant culture.

    In short, if you aid a woman for the purpose of becoming her emergency “emotional tampon” in a pinch, then, yes, you are a ridiculous and awkward person. For others it is second nature to spread around their largesse magnanimously. We do aid women being womanly because we are strong, and because it is no big deal, and whatever false validation a woman gets from our actions is not a huge topic of chit-chat in our circles. We don’t rush to aid their feminist prerogatives, we aid the person.

    Should we help a weakling or should we teach her a lesson? Hmm, what to do, what to do? … Only a certain type of weakling gets embroiled in that kind of controversy. The rest of us follow our nature without much of a thought, and move along. Whatever “value” that “demonstrates” is for you to micro-analyze during your navel-gazing hours and misapply to amoral ends.

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  94. “Californication is a TV show!!! Not real life…. and doesn’t apply to this thread man.”

    Well said.

    If tv and movies reflected true life, it would either be too boring or too distastefull for the masses to accept.

    Hence we are exposed to a plethora of pretty lies.

    Like


  95. I agree completely with the notion that White Knighting lost all point when women gained financial and reproductive independence from men. But even in the most prosperous countries, that only happened 20-30 years ago. For the eons prior to that, it was almost unimaginable. So guys might be forgiven for not instantly catching on. Plus, taking on the role of a WK is an excellent fit with the instincts and upbringing which most men associate with personal honor and virtue. On the other hand…
    Female human hindbrain = Female Ferret hindbrain.

    Like


  96. on June 2, 2011 at 1:45 am Basil Ransom

    “One of the unfortunate effects of our white knighting culture is that it encourages women to act with impunity”

    Yes. This is why I cannot stand it. Without WK, really male tolerance of shitty female behavior, there’d be fewer bitches and harpies. I don’t understand why people here have a bittersweet view of it.

    Rollo, everyone’s feting you apparently, but can you not write like a sociology professor? It does you no favors.

    Like


  97. The oblivious Alpha male is a one of the most potent game strategies, since by establishing good upbringing and refined tastes… chicks will consider you as long-term potential or marriage material. Sexy son hypothesis + guaranteed good parenting/tastes = Game over.

    Thus, they are more likely to put up with a lot of Alpha male BS, such as cheating, fighting and drinking heavily.

    Also once you go Chris Brown, physically or mentally these addicted girls will try to “fix” you, because they will long for the days when you were “nicer.”

    Seriously, once you can pull this off its so easy it becomes boring.

    Like


  98. A love of women, in a white knight sense, is very easy to translate into a love of the state. It’s an avenue to power much greater than being an alpha and standing alone. Harpies in the EEOC or HUD have infinitely more power than an alpha billionaire. It’s just the nature of modern politics.

    Most of the super-rich feel like there’s water everywhere, but not a drop to drink. The ones who looked for power first, and money incidentally, are leftist wimps like George Soros instead of men like Carlos Slim.

    Alphas satisfy their want of power with women. Tyrants, fascists, and collectivists of all sorts are vastly more likely to be members of the sexual underclass.

    Like


  99. on June 2, 2011 at 2:30 am The Specimen

    I think we can all agree that white knighting is the refuge of self righteous pricks, but I don’t think we’re all clear on exactly what is and isn’t white knighting. I think of white knighting as interfering in a sitution on the behalf of the woman where you don’t know the score.

    I agree with riff that sometimes this type of thing really has more to do with social dominance in the world of men than with sex. I mean, you’re basically telling another man what he can or can’t do, and somewhere in there there’s an implicit threat and possibility that it’s going to get violent.

    In that vein, there are also certain cases, like the author mentions, where a guy is using a woman you’re with as a proxy to try to disrespect and assert social dominance over you, and in these cases, you’d better stand up for her (really yourself) or you’re going to get tooled out with an audience to witness your humiliation.

    Sometimes the whole leader of the pack thing comes into play. As the leader or the group, it’s your responsibility as a leader not to let people fuck with your flock, which means sometimes standing up for the weaker members who can’t do it for themselves.

    But I don’t think of the last two cases as white knighting, because you know the score before you act and things have more to do with defending your social position and status than anything else. In the first case, I’d say that it is because you’re trying to use the situation to manufacture social status in the eyes of the woman you help, even if you think you’re doing it for yourself. After all social status is meaningless without an audience to acknowledge it.

    Like


  100. on June 2, 2011 at 3:39 am dannyfrom504

    roissy-

    did you read my post on Riv’s site. i was asking him what the hell “white kniting” was. one of the thing i dislike about these sites is that i don’t get the acronyms.

    i follow you, Riv, athol and badger. get’s frustrating b/c when you guys get into it…….i can’t understand what the hell is being discussed a lot of times. :/

    Like


  101. I remember, 20 years ago, the girl I dated in college. I caught her in bed one night with another guy. I confronted him and told him he better treat her right or I would kick his ass. His reply, with a smirk, was, “Don’t worry. I will.” Instead of putting the fear of God in him, I basically told him that he could use her up and I would pick up the leftovers, and maybe his cuckolded bastard. Man, was I ever a beta! It’s hard not to feel regret for being so dumb.

    Like


  102. @LDub says:

    “June 1, 2011 at 11:19 pm

    Seriously, great article! The other day in the subway I saw some herb help a mother carry her baby stroller up a long flight of stairs. What a WKing little sack of shit pussy!!! This type of behavior can’t be tolerated – disgusting.”

    You might have seen me the other day. I do that kind of stuff out of kindness, not because I am a white knight. I help old ladies too.

    You never know when that mother has a single, very hot sister or the granny has a hot granddaughter, whom they think you would be great for and will introduce you.

    Like


  103. @Anonymous2

    Expand on that please. More on Soros and Slim.

    I took this post to be a subtle request for us to stop arguing in the comment sections (fathers vs suitors, super alphas vs cold approachers).

    But the political angle is more important.

    Like


  104. Every man in his life should kill a feminist snake, raise an alfa son and convert a white knight to game.

    Like


  105. To be an oblivious alpha male you MUST have status. Although I can’t imagine how you could snag a lot of strange in your life and be oblivious to the highly sexual and predatory nature of women.

    Like


  106. Hilarious. Especially the last type – Deeply Embedded Gene Machine. They’re aka:

    The Begrudging White Knight

    Middle class boys who were taught to open doors for girls and pay for dinner. Now they are conditioned to pay for dinner/drinks/taxi not out of volition but fear of looking stingy or out of guilt. These guys are often unfulfilled and a bit screwed up.

    Women shouldn’t expect/mind paying for their half of an otherwise great date. Beats a chump who’s just going through the motions.

    That said…chilvalry should be kept alive sometimes. There’s a reason why Mr Darcy is such a hearthrob.

    Like


  107. on June 2, 2011 at 8:36 am CatoRenasci

    I can’t imagine how you could snag a lot of strange in your life and be oblivious to the highly sexual and predatory nature of women.

    It’s not about being oblivious, it’s about being impervious.

    Like


  108. on June 2, 2011 at 9:21 am CatoRenasci

    Most of the super-rich feel like there’s water everywhere, but not a drop to drink. The ones who looked for power first, and money incidentally, are leftist wimps like George Soros instead of men like Carlos Slim.

    Alphas satisfy their want of power with women. Tyrants, fascists, and collectivists of all sorts are vastly more likely to be members of the sexual underclass.

    Twaddle. I think it was Henry Kissinger who said that Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac. Power comes in many forms: physical strength and fighting prowess, personal magnetism, political power over others (and to allocate resources), and the power that money gives you over resources (and hence people who want/need resources).

    Power attracts women because of all that it can imply at a conscious and unconscious level: physical security, freedom from hunger and want, access to material goods, the ability to have and provide for children, etc.

    The poorer a society, the more obvious women’s attraction to power is, and the more obvious the sources of power.

    In our society, there is a great reluctance to talk seriously about power or to understand it, hence much confusion is sewn.

    People who have real power, tend to exercise it in many ways. It’s why you see an otherwise idiotic beta like Rep. Weiner twittering his junk to some young thing flattered by attention from power.

    Like


  109. Simpler explanation: parents.

    I used to be a real white knighter. I was like that because:
    A) My Dad was a white knighter who passed it down.
    B) My mother was a loving and traditional woman and I think at first I respected women by associating them with my mothers femininity.

    Women like my mother deserved a little white knighting because they act the way women should. Supportive feminine women earn a little white knighting.

    But experience has taught me there is a sharp generational difference, and that most girls in my age range are narcissistic selfish whores. They haven’t earned it, so I’ve stopped giving it. It just took awhile.

    Like


  110. When I see Rep Weiner and other Congressmen and Senators doing that desperate nonsense, I have to conclude that their interns and lobbyists are no longer giving them their due like in days of yore. And I don’t trust a man in power who isn’t getting laid regularly just for being there (the price of sex must not be high for them because, otherwise, they can be bribed too easily).

    After 6000 yrs of recorded history, why have White Knighters in “power” only just recently cut off their own supply of poon in their own halls?

    I still don’t get why the old males of the “Illuminati” would want to cut off their own privileges.

    Like


  111. Men and women have different sins but I think you need a really self serving morality to determine that women are less moral than men. It isn’t just a coincidence or conspiracy that men fill jails. I think a lot of the anti-white knight moral chauvinism rests on declaring that the sexual sins of women are worse than the sexual sins of men qua them being the sins of women. It is especially egregious when a women is cheating because it is a woman doing it. Some women are attracted to serial killers and gangsters. That is bad but it is better than being a serial killer or a gangster! Hitler was worse than Eva Braun.

    Like


  112. The alpha would maintain civil society by enforcing and exemplifying basic law of conduct around him, his law.

    The daft white knight may try to do the same, but is instead an inept romantic follower.

    Even if he is not motivated by being a woman worshipper and sex slave, the chivalry falls apart in modern society.

    If you are helping a whore, and cannot command the respect of total strangers.

    If you stick your neck out, and could easily be killed, to save a person who claims equality and superiority but who would never do the same for you.

    Like


  113. http://fyiliving.com/mental-health/relationships/sex/friends-with-benefits-study-finds-sex-and-friendship-dont-mix/

    “As this study pointed out, women more than men expect the relationship to go somewhere else, this doesn’t mean men can’t also get hurt. In fact, many men take the ‘friend’ route in hopes to one day date their friend. … “

    yep, the very definition of beta orbiter.

    only real reason to be friends with a woman is not to gain access to her pussy, but to the pussies of those in her social circle.

    Like


  114. “only real reason to be friends with a woman”

    Could you possibly just like her as a person.

    Like


  115. Gunner, jails are full of men because white knights wrote the laws and ran the ‘justice systems’ that put them there. Locking up alphas by the thousands means less mate competition for the wimpy betas.

    Also, women are the gatekeepers of sex, so her sexual sins are automatically worse. Women cannot have it both ways – to be respected as the chaste and moral gender, yet behave like street whores with no repercussions.

    Like


  116. Myth of the middle class alpha male.
    None of you are alpha.
    Being “alpha” compared to the rest of the “men” in the western world is like being the smartest kid with downs syndrome. Woopdefuckindoo

    Like


  117. @Lara

    “only real reason to be friends with a woman”

    Could you possibly just like her as a person.

    Only if she is a relative or fat.

    Like


  118. “Expand on that please. More on Soros and Slim.”

    Soros folded under Nazi pressure and became a collaborator. He made his fortune in speculation and stealing away others’ wealth by arbitrage, insider deals, tax fraud, illegal short selling, and trashing third world currencies. His “philanthropy” includes Democratic darlings like anti-apartheid causes, legalizing drugs, open borders, and pro-death euthanasia and abortion groups. As usual, every cause has an interested angle in it to benefit his parasitism.

    Slim is an engineer, who spent much of his career developing natural resources, land, infrastructure, communications and so on. He would buy cheap companies and make them competitive. Mexico is still a corrupt playground and Slim is no saint, but he brought real benefits to it. His charities include architecture, sports, education, and art.

    Both are rich, but it’s just the difference between the upper-omega and the upper-alpha. Building a megaconglomerate corporate empire as opposed to shuffling the right papers with the right people. The industrialist vs the financier. They’re both seen as alphas only by the naive who only think money = alpha. Wrong.

    Like


  119. on June 2, 2011 at 11:56 am CatoRenasci

    Could you possibly just like her as a person.

    Lara! On this forum? C’mon, I’d have given you more credit than that from your other posts.

    A woman has to be pretty special as a person to be preferable to a man of equal intelligence and compatible interests for a guy to justify putting up with her (almost inevitable) sexual manipulation of one sort or another.

    I won’t say it’s impossible, but I haven’t seen it. In most really close relationships between men and women, excpet one both are ugly as sin, there is some element of sexual frission that makes it more exiting that a similar friendship between men (or women, I suppose).

    I had almost two decade-long very close friendship with a woman who was probably the closest thing to a real intellectual peer and companion I’ve known. We started attracted to each other physically, but I declined to play after a while because she was classic ‘player’ of guys. For years, she kept coming back to me at intervals for the friendship even after I’d walked away. I’d rekindle the friendship because it seemed worth it for a long time, but each time, I’d walk away when she couldn’t stop flaunting her game. Finally, I just didn’t respond anymore. I’m sure I was somewhat influenced by the fact that her first rate mind came in a solid 9 package.

    Like


  120. Chivalry was to protect NOBLEwomen (as in having some value) among other possessions of noble families.

    The value was coming from the TITLE, not the female sex. There is no value inherent to the female sex. That is the scam of the century.

    Back in the days they knew the score. Families used to PAY dowry to men for them to marry their girls. This implies they were more than worthless. They had negative value!

    One could argue today the women have an income so they have more value in marriage. But that usually came at the expense of things we cared more about like submission, good sex, youth and feminity. So if the woman falls short in some of these aspects and doesn’t provide the cost of replacement, such as the price of a high class hooker every other night, or a nanny, or a cook or a housekeeper, she is a bad deal. And that’s not even taking divorce into account, which makes it a disgustingly insulting horrible deal.

    Women spam us with love rhetoric so we don’t take into account these legitimate economical decisions which were common sense in earlier eras. When women say men are stupid, I’d say they’re mostly right in terms of seeing through their con game.

    Opt out and let them whine that there are no good (aka stupid) men.

    Like


  121. “I remember, 20 years ago, the girl I dated in college. I caught her in bed one night with another guy. I confronted him and told him he better treat her right or I would kick his ass.”

    Now *that* shows how long road the road to recovery can be for some guys. Wow.

    Like


  122. AB Dada

    Good points. I have beta-slid…I’m recovering and regrouping.

    I’m now sifting through this with my girl.

    She is pissed at a few things.

    I’ve made it clear to her that giving out her number, going on separate vacations etc is not cool.

    She’s pushing back and bringing up everything she can think of about me and other girls to rationalize her behaviour.

    Then she’s telling me she’s “not like that” when it comes to guys.

    It demonstrates to me she feels bad but it’s not for me to make her feel good.

    I think she needs to sort through this and demonstrate clearly there’s a change.

    I do feel like this is the mother of all shit tests.

    She’s throwing everything at me: her ex who was “not complicated”….and who frankly sounded like a beta chump.

    She’s bringing up some friend of hers I had a drink with and I’m saying “yes, she’s the lead concubine in my harem….”

    Is there a point where I’m over-doing it with the heavy handedness over the disrespect she’s shown me suggesting she was simply the innocent victim of needy guys coming on to her…?

    Like


  123. wala,

    yes, it’s an epic shit test.

    remember, alphas have options. if you aren’t banging other girls, you need to be.

    what’s so special about this one girl?

    Like


  124. @ Wala
    She has revealed herself to be an untrustworthy whore playing the naïve ingenue. It is the mother of all shit tests. You’re right on the money on that.

    The fact that she suspects you of cheating is further evidence that she herself has already cheated. She just wants to alleviate her guilt by thinking you did the same. Ask her to give you her phone so you can look at what she wrote. If she doesn’t want to she cheated. If there are no messages, she deleted them because she cheated. If she didn’t tell them off, she cheated.

    From then on treat her like a cheap slut. Call her a filthy little whore and fuck her silly without any form of respect for her pretend dignity. If she tries to present herself as wholesome when the two of you are alone, laugh at her face.

    She needs to know you see through her shit. Do not make any excuses for yourself! And blatantly look for other girls.
    If you trust her and don’t bed other sexy women yourself, she’ll dump you.

    Like


  125. J-Lo married a low-life in her prime and now he’s selling a home video of her getting spanked in her birthday suit:

    http://www.tmz.com/2011/06/01/jennifer-lopez-ojani-noa-sex-honeymoon-tape-bidding-war-porn-companies-youporn-red-light-district-pornhub/

    Miley’s getting older and just branded herself with tattoos (I’m sure she didn’t ask any potential marriage material if that was a good idea):

    http://www.tmz.com/2011/05/17/miley-cyrus-wrist-tattoo-rio-disney-hannah-montana-18-tish-cyrus/

    Octomom should have taken the huge Playboy offer when she had the chance. The expiry date of that option seems to have passed:

    http://www.tmz.com/2011/06/01/octomom-nadya-suleman-bikini-beach-14-kids-mortgage-payment/

    Like


  126. Itsme is dead on — you’re seeing her way too much. See her on your schedule, not on hers. Make yourself scarce and then make demands that force her to jump and change her plans to see you. See other women twice for every one time you see her.

    Like


  127. Remember the media giving you the impression that Charlie Sheen’s ex-wife Brooke Mueller ought to have left him and deserved the kids, etc because he was such a “creep”?

    You know, the typical White Knighting media?

    Well here is the real Brooke Mueller and wishing she had Charlie back (she sure isn’t going to get another alpha whether he was one or not):

    http://www.tmz.com/2011/06/02/brooke-mueller-paris-hilton-help-the-world-according-to-paris-reality-show-alcoholic/

    Like


  128. on June 2, 2011 at 2:52 pm Athlone McGinnis

    I don’t understand why Alphacat and others got bent out of shape about the Californication comparison. Roissy himself once did a post about Hank Moody, calling him a chump/white knight, and making an example of him in relation to larger American cultural trends(and how young gamers can learn from him).

    http://roissy.wordpress.com/2010/07/08/hank-moody-chump/

    He clearly thinks TV has some relevance.

    Like


  129. @ Gunner

    “Hitler was worse than Eva Braun.”

    You still haven’t escaped the brainwashing fully.

    Man commit more crimes because they have the tools to do so – muscles, courage, determination.

    Women would do no less evil if they would have those tools. But they do not. So they just use men to commit crimes for them (by rewarding evil men with sex) and then put all blame on mens shoulders by playing a victim.

    So women have just as black hearts as men, plus the hypocrisy that makes them even worse.

    When you start seeing that – a truly gross picture about the “fairer ” gender is revealed. And many people like you don’t have the guts to face this uglyness and choose to rationalize it away.

    You must not look on an individual but on a pair. Individualism is a lie that gave birth to feminism and liberalism. If a man is evil and his women loves him then she is also just as evil, no more and no less.

    Like


  130. @ Gunner

    Oh and women dont’t just revard evil men with sex. They also manipulate dumb white-knighting chumps with fake promises of sex.

    Like


  131. So if a man is good (to use an example of a non-evil alpha, George Washington, at least according to our host), is his woman good too?

    Like


  132. on June 2, 2011 at 4:30 pm namae nanka

    ” I think you need a really self serving morality to determine that women are less moral than men. It isn’t just a coincidence or conspiracy that men fill jails.”

    The morality and jail connection is a little tenuous. Not going to jail means accordance with the law and not with moral principles(preferably, that you have reasoned out on your own).
    Women conform to the principles of the social group they are attached to and a change in their “morality” is more likely to be brought about by a change in their social settings rather than trying to reason with their own beliefs.

    Shame and not guilt is a better predictor of female behavior.

    “In his book Sex and Character, Weininger argues that all people are composed of a mixture of the male and the female substance, and attempts to support his view scientifically. The male aspect is active, productive, conscious and moral/logical, while the female aspect is passive, unproductive, unconscious and amoral/alogical. Weininger argues that emancipation should be reserved for the “masculine woman,” e.g. some lesbians, and that the female life is consumed with the sexual function: both with the act, as a prostitute, and the product, as a mother. ”

    Another argument is that boys and young men who have gained physical maturity but not mental maturity should not be used as proxy for men and masculinity.

    Baumeister’s paper “The cultural suppression of female sexuality” is a good read in this regard.

    Like


  133. June 2, 2011 at 11:18 am Begby wrote: Gunner, jails are full of men because white knights wrote the laws and ran the ‘justice systems’ that put them there. Locking up alphas by the thousands means less mate competition for the wimpy betas.

    Aaaand this is what happens when semi-educated, casual enthusiasts attempt to translate Game into sociology. Ugly.

    There are other ways to explain social phenomena than converting everything into Game theory. Focus, gentlemen.

    Like


  134. on June 2, 2011 at 5:10 pm CatoRenasci

    In the context of this post, it’s interesting to remember that historically, in the ancient world, the power of female sexuality and the dangers of its use were widely understood. The ‘woman as temptress who could ruin a man’ was a widespread archetype, from the story of Eve and the Serpent on down.

    The idealization of women, and chivalry, and the white knight phenomenon was a medieval Christian view which took hold in the upper classes, and took centuries to percolate down to the middle classes, and ultimately to the literate upper working classes.

    Like


  135. I live in Eastern Europe. If I ever saw a Congoid or other non-desirable attacking or mistreating a Slavic female, I would definitely step in and try to beat the living bush out of the alien invader, regardless his relations with the female (husband, boyfriend, stranger, etc.).

    That’s because even in this day and age of radical feminism, I still consider Slavic women to be the property of Slavic men, and by mistreating them in my face, not only are you damaging my property but you’re also blatantly insulting and challenging my masculinity.

    I couldn’t give a fuck about the female, because this isn’t about the female. She could be the biggest slut for all I care.

    If, however, I saw a female being mistreated–even raped–by Slavic men, then I’d be on my merry way. Slavic women are the property of Slavic men. They were created to be fucked by Slavic men, by force if need be.

    Like


  136. Solid post, Rosenberg.

    Respect.

    Like


  137. On the Evo Psych point, a harsher (northern) climate requires cooperation–and therefore trust–in order to survive and reproduce. In such an environment, chastity has a premium, and it is therefore incentivized and, when necessary, coerced.

    I don’t find it unbelievable that, at least in their affirmative actions, women were more chaste in bygone days, notwithstanding their animal natures. If the alternative was loss of a meal ticket in a warm, dry place, that makes rational sense. *

    The trouble with the white knight is a simple problem of being on the wrong side of the nature/nurture debate, ironically contrapositive of the usual error. They confuse an outdated notion about women, which as a matter of fact may have once been true (or at least more true) to be indicative of woman’s underlying nature, when it was only compliance with a cultural norm (and a fragile one at that) that the last 50 years has completely eviscerated.

    * (Other confounding, non-causative factors include the lack of options/opportunities to act out that an agrarian lifestyle presents, vs. today’s more urbanized, connected social environment.)

    Like


  138. If, however, I saw a female being mistreated–even raped–by Slavic men, then I’d be on my merry way. Slavic women are the property of Slavic men. They were created to be fucked by Slavic men, by force if need be.

    Wtf is this shit. What if it was your sister being raped? Would you step in then? Or would you just say “sorry, sis, it’s your duty to bear the slav-seed of my slavic countrymen?”

    I don’t know you, dude, but even to me, an unapologetic male chauvinist, that statement reeks of bitter, beta misogyny. Typing shit like that here is not going to do any favors for your brothers-in-arms.

    At least you’re not a typical eurofag that enjoys watching foreign immigrants driving the rape rates up. You ex-soviet bloc countries still have your balls, at least.

    Like


  139. on June 2, 2011 at 8:04 pm Obstinance Works

    “Slavic women are the property of Slavic men. They were created to be fucked by Slavic men, by force if need be.”

    Are Slavic men the property of Slavic men also, because this makes YOU sound like the rape victim.

    Like


  140. “Wtf is this shit. What if it was your sister being raped? Would you step in then? ”

    My sister is my property and the property of my father, and this is why I would naturally step in.

    Otherwise I don’t think I’d be able to sleep at night. It’s just about the equivalent of getting punked in prison.

    “Typing shit like that here is not going to do any favors for your brothers-in-arms.”

    Perhaps, but that’s because most people will simply have a knee-jerk reaction to my words, instead of thinking of the social ramifications.

    Women are property. If you leave your property unguarded, something can happen to it. In the past men rarely left their property unguarded, and rape was a rare occurrence. When it did happen, it usually happened over the dead body of the woman’s owner.

    If a man is a misguided, emasculated chump who wishes to give his property the freedom to go out carousing half-naked in the evening, then don’t expect me to risk my life trying to save his property from being damaged. Likewise, if a man is too spineless to instruct his property to dress modestly so as not to attract unwanted attention, then I’ve no inclination to play the role of altruistic security guard. The man chooses to be negligent, and due to his negligence his property can be damaged.

    Like


  141. It sounds like Slavic men still act like men.

    Like


  142. on June 2, 2011 at 9:39 pm CatoRenasci

    Rosenberg? Are you a troll? Rosenberg is definitely not a Slavic name. Not Aryan, either (well, there was a Bohemian [i]von[/i] Rosenberg family, but afaik Czechs aren’t Slavs either.

    Like


  143. on June 2, 2011 at 9:40 pm CatoRenasci

    Rosenberg? Are you a troll? Rosenberg is definitely not a Slavic name. Not Aryan, either (well, there was a Bohemian [i]von[/i] Rosenberg family, but afaik Czechs aren’t Slavs either.

    Like


  144. White Knighting seems to be really abundant on the internet, especially within the current feminist crusade that seems to be sweeping the blogosphere. I’m not even sure it can be attributed to a misguided attempt to woo women by impressing them with your sensitivity – I doubt anyone is under the impression they’ll get laid from a blog comment.

    Whatever the cause, nothing disgusts me more than some male feminist cunt calling out scummy humor and bitching about misogyny or – God help me – “rape culture.”

    Like


  145. Lara,

    Detox my Buttox.

    You will then get to be called ‘LaraButtox’.

    -GB

    Like


  146. @AB Dada…”itsme”

    Gaming for me is now easy.

    But LTR Game is now my challenge. It’s becoming more and more of a struggle.

    I see everything clearly now and more in perspective than before.

    The whole guy coming onto my girl thing and my previous “white knighting” is now coming back to haunt me I’m afraid.

    It is a slippery slope guys. Once you get entangled into defending your gf on some level, you’re sucked into a drama.

    Need some tips on extricating myself while maintaining alpha frame.

    AB Dada’s yours are a greater long-term strategy. Anything shorter term? What to say, how to act?

    Serious question…any tips on canceling a date? What to say without sounding bitter, or angry or because of some reaction to some fight we’re having?

    Like


  147. walawala, what’s your prerogative?

    If ((game eq easy) and (ltr not eq easy)), what does it say to you?

    Seems that teh force is with you in the first case. Puzzled why you wanna go the ltr route.

    Like


  148. walawala: Canceling a date? Yeah, “I have a business meeting”

    Like


  149. This will explain White Knighting some more:

    http://human-stupidity.com/awareness/robert-kurzban

    High quality alpha males can profit from imposing monogamy on other males. Powerful males have a better chance to remain unpunished if they violate these rules (at least in birds with no feminist dominated court system).

    The losers of polygyny prohibition are un-paired females who have to settle for a lower quality male (‘a loser’) because they are deprived of the freedom to choose to be wife #2 of a high quality male (with better genes, bigger territory, and more resources).

    The other losers of enforced monogamy are the “cads” the sexy good looking promiscuous players. They are attractive to women for having good genes, but they can’t win the battle over who brings the most worms. “Without promiscuity, sexy males can’t make the most of what they’ve got.” (Kurzban, p. 211).

    “Dads, however, win if the sexy males can’t be promiscuous. (They also benefit from keeping their females at home, rather than searching for the good-gene cads)” (p 211) “Dads” are mated male birds that invest in their family and bring home worms for their kids.

    We have an “interfere in other people’s private sex life” mental module.

    “Humans are extremely social, and our survival and reproduction are determined in large part by how well we navigate the social world. Given this, it’s reasonable to expect that our minds are designed to compete fiercely-if not subtly- for the benefits in the social world: the best mates, the best friends, membership in the best groups, and so on. The outcomes of these competitions would have had massive effects on reproductive success over the course of human evolution.”

    So birds, mammals, and humans that increase their reproductive success by restricting other people’s sexual access will out-compete the democratic, personal-liberty-respecting tolerant liberal individuals.

    Like


  150. The era of White Knighting has ended at the NY Beta Times:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/03/business/media/03paper.html?_r=2&hp

    Now Bill Keller is out and a real feminist is in charge.

    Meanwhile, the NY Daily Beta News says a streaker was “deranged” when they could have just let that word out and let readers decide:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/06/02/2011-06-02_naked_jogger_streaks_through_kansas_suburb_hops_into_community_pool_full_of_kids.html

    What’s with the beaches of America being ruined by “thugs”? Is that a new media codeword for people of a certain race (sorry, subculture)?

    http://miami.cbslocal.com/2011/06/02/rally-to-urge-city-leaders-to-end-urban-beach-weekend/

    http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/06/02/doubts-mount-about-why-city-closed-north-avenue-beach/

    And since when did Rahm Emanuel already get elected Mayor of Chicago? I thought the Obama Administration was unpopular and this guy had no political future?

    Is Chicago some kind of twilight zone?

    Like


  151. Everyone is baffled about why a shark bit this college student:

    http://www.khou.com/news/local/College-student-survives-shark-attack-near-Surfside-122901004.html

    Glad she’s OK. She seems like a nice person.

    For those who think the attention of a college student should flatter any old man, there is often a huge difference between the appearance of a senior and a freshman.

    Like


  152. Excellent essay on the “rape is not about sex” pseudo science:

    http://www.drtraycehansen.com/Pages/writings_politics.html

    This is full of money quotes.

    Like


  153. O/T but since this blog often discusses the Paleo diet, is there stuff to talk about here:

    Intake of carbohydrates has long been associated with cancer, and dietary therapies for cancer have included a large reduction in carbs. A 2007 study found that a low carb diet actually shrunk prostate tumors in mice

    http://www.inmalafide.com/blog/2011/06/02/the-paleo-crash-course/

    Since prostatetectomies = no more sex for the middle aged guys who get them, what type of foods should they start avoiding?

    Bread – Definitely
    Cake?
    Chocolate Bars?

    Like


  154. Violence against a man (who turned out to be a West Point cadet) because he walked too close to a female celebrity’s suitcase:

    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7592273.html

    Of course one can link to examples of White Knighting all day and every day using news material less than 24 hours old.

    Like


  155. O/T

    What was 38 yr old Cameron Diaz thinking when she called 35 yr old A-Rod her “boyfriend” and now feels “hurt and betrayed” and has broken up with him:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1393806/Cameron-Diaz-hurt-betrayed-amid-claims-split-boyfriend-A-Rod.html

    Read what her hamster says.

    Also, who’s kidding whom? Vogue says it’s putting “Plus Size” models on its cover to battle anorexia.

    That’s good news but these women aren’t fat:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1393482/Italian-Vogue-uses-3-plus-size-models-cover-bid-battle-anorexia.html

    Like


  156. O/T but huge, the Atlantic reports “Rapes Have Dropped More Than 80% Since 1979”:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/06/rapes-have-dropped-more-than-80-since-1979/239845/

    and “The Startling Decline in Rape” shows FBI statistics showing real rape dropping like a rock:

    http://www.samefacts.com/2011/06/crime-control/the-startling-decline-in-rape/

    Reasons?

    1 – Pornography – Rapes not only dropped after the late 1970’s acceptance of pornography in the US culture, but they dropped even further when broadband got widely adopted. Since rape is about sex, porn provided an outlet.

    2 – DNA Evidence – This is obvious. Every man knows he’ll be leaving evidence now.

    It also makes one wonder if married women haven’t changed their pattern of cheating on their husband because of the existence of DNA testing…

    3 – The 1980’s AIDS Scare- In the 1980’s, everyone was scared of this, including would-be rapists

    4 – Sexual revolution went mainstream? Once enough women were putting out for free, it wasn’t stolen so often? But then they slowed down because of the AIDS scare in ’86.

    5 – Abortion Caused Would-be Rapists to be aborted – This is the famous Freakanomics argument which has been practically proven to have lowered big city crime

    6 – Women Being Seen As Equals? No way!

    7 – More Prisoners in Prison

    8 – Less Lead in People’s Blood Streams (Lead causes violent behavior)

    9 – Less Crack/Cocaine Use?

    Like


  157. wala,

    this girl doesn’t seem like a very good ltr candidate. she’s shit testing way too much and it doesn’t even sound as if she wants an ltr. or you’re not yet at a dominant enough level in your relationship.

    insisting on an ltr with such a girl is a form of oneitis. you’ll be in an ltr, but one in which she has hand, not you. ‘it’s becoming more and more of a struggle’ – this is a bad sign.

    successful ltr game requires that you instill the right balance of dread and comfort in your woman. dread that if she does the wrong thing, you’ll take away the comfort and security you provide and give it to another. this is an alpha’s trump card.

    her shit tests coming on harder and faster when they should have tapered off is her calling into question your alphaness.

    she’s calling your bluff. how will you respond?

    i would play the trump card.

    Like


  158. @walawala
    But LTR Game is now my challenge. It’s becoming more and more of a struggle.

    Not ever gal is LTR material. I’d say that 1 in 5 are, based on my history in the past decade. Of those 20%, only half of those have all the goods for me to actually be worth keeping them around. Spending 3 nights with a woman is usually enough for the average gal to show that she either doesn’t have the design for LTR, or that she has something that falls short of me wanting to affiliate with her for the long term.

    The whole guy coming onto my girl thing and my previous “white knighting” is now coming back to haunt me I’m afraid.

    One screw up you can live past, but more than that and you’ve shot yourself in the foot and the balls.

    It is a slippery slope guys. Once you get entangled into defending your gf on some level, you’re sucked into a drama.

    That’s when you neg, sometimes. I’ve had a situation twice with 2 different broads where they wanted to know why I didn’t intervene, and I told them that “Most stories don’t end like Pretty Woman.” It’s a mind-fuck neg that equates them with whores, but both of those gals were with me for my connections anyway and I had to dump them quickly when it became apparent that they had no desire to bust their asses for me like I expect women to.

    AB Dada’s yours are a greater long-term strategy. Anything shorter term? What to say, how to act?

    I don’t like short term relationships because there are too many variables. What I want from women is not sex primarily, because I have women in my life where the sex is great and they’re fine with seeing me just once or twice a month (enough time for me to “miss” their version of sex). For me, I need other things primarily, and those things don’t happen in short term relationships.

    Serious question…any tips on canceling a date? What to say without sounding bitter, or angry or because of some reaction to some fight we’re having?

    Don’t say anything. Just send them a text and tell them you’re canceling. The point of canceling a date is to test if their inner brains (hamsters) go squeaking and freak out and skyrocket their desire for you. If they don’t, the gal isn’t worth it. I don’t cancel dates often, but I do it as my own version of a estrogen test to see if she’s squeaking for me.

    Some things I’ve used for canceling dates is:

    Me: “Have to cancel tonight/tomorrow.”

    Her: “What??? Why!!!”

    Me(a): “I’m not feeling it.”

    Me(b): “Friends are coming over.”

    Me(c): “Flying to LA/MIA/PDX/NYC for the evening.” (always true)

    Me(d): “I really want to finish this chapter.”

    Me(e): “I know how you are when it rains/snows/you’re on the rag/you see your mother/etc.” Slight neg.

    I do always respond, usually late, but use a variety of excuses to turn it on her not being good enough, or me having better things to do. Like reading a book, hah.

    We neg in order to get their inner brains (hamster) screaming louder than their outer brains (shit tests). Negging is a really strong avenue for reducing shit tests because women can shit test themselves when they’re uncertain if they’re good enough.

    Like


    • on July 27, 2011 at 1:59 pm HanginguptheBetaMax

      Dada,
      Love your posts full of insights I am definitely going to try and model some of my game like you do in the Great Beta Reformation of 2011.

      I was a beta by environment/choice but have learned the error of my ways through a recent divorce, better late then never. I am definitely going to teach my son this stuff at an early age so he doesn’t have to learn the hardway (or at least its not my fault if he does).

      Thanks for the wisdom

      Like


  159. Molly Ringwald was originally cast to play “Pretty Woman”.

    They chose Richard Gere over Al Pacino.

    Like


  160. @AB Dada, itsme

    This is gold…

    My strategy this evening…I called to say “let’s meet up”.

    her response: “I’m not feeling well and still pissed off…

    Me: “oh, cool, ok, gotta go…”

    10 minutes later: she calls…I ignore. 3 more calls, I ignore. Then she leaves a message, “I’m not feeling well, have fun.” Then a text: same. Then another text saying “I’m pissed off you didin’t ask me how I’m feeling….”

    I ignored it all.

    Then later she sent me a “trial text” with some piece of music we’d been discussing. I also ignored.

    I finally get this.

    I had alpha frame. Beta-back-slid.

    Now demonstrating I have options and re-gaining hand.

    Appreciate the tips. Anything interesting develops, I’ll let you know.

    Big game tip for newbies: if you start getting push-back or shit-tests…disappear but do not in any way act pissed off.

    In my case when she said “I’m pissed off”.. my reaction was “ok, cool gotta go now…” No hint of passive aggressive in my voice. That part was the hardest. But I pulled it off.

    The proof was her message: “Not sure why you’re not picking up”….hamster spinning.

    This blog is gold.

    Like


  161. AB Dada-

    White knighting is a little complicated, because there are good kinds and bad kinds. In the manophere it’s become a bad word for good reason so when it’s the good kind it’s usually called something else.

    An example of this renaming is Chateau here, where a guy is really protecting his status as AMOG:

    I’d point out that this isn’t so much white knighting as it is plain old dealing with douchebaggery. You’ll have to face him down. A simple “Problems, bro?” should nix any escalation in the bud.

    Never white knight on the basis that it’s the duty of men to protect women in general while expecting nothing in return. Feminism killed that. When men got in return a general respect as the dominant sex and protector of women so long as they acted like gentlemen towards then there was a basis for codes of chivalry and some white knighting. No longer.

    Bad white knighting is when betas do it without any realistic chance of benefit “just because she’s a woman” and “he’s been taught to respect women” and “it’s the right thing to do”. Benefit doesn’t mean she’ll immediately sleep with him necessarily. It could mean she’ll go on a genuine exploratory date where she buys the first round, be willing to wing woman for him because she owes him, etc. Or do other favors.

    Good white knighting which we’ll call flirting or something else, is when you have a chance that your helping her will add comfort to your alpha attractors and maybe lure her. Never do it in a “you owe her cause she’s a girl”, or in an “it’s nothing” way. Helping out a pretty girl who’s giving you IOIs who lives in your building and who you might have a chance with is definitely ok. It’s flirting, not bad white knighting. If she’s in real peril and the cost isn’t too high, then yeah help. But you should do that for guys in such situations too. But yeah most guys will have more of an instinct to help girls out in borderline situation. If she really needed help for something serious she does owe you. You should have that view too in a confidant non demanding way, and NOT do the “aw shucks, I was just doing the right thing” speech which makes you girls’ servant just cause she’s a girl or pretty girl. Beta city.

    AB DADA– If a woman asks me for help, I’ll ask her “Where’s my profit?” Dealing with women is like dealing with any investment: if you’re going to invest and take a risk, the reward better be good and it better be likely.

    Yeah, think what’s in it for me. I wouldn’t say where’s my profit. I’d say something like, well if I do you’ll owe me. Or I’d say that if I wanted to do it ‘cause of IOI’s. If I hadn’t gotten any, yeah I’d say “what’s in it for me?”

    Pretty much consider a cost benefit analysis. If the cost/risk is high to you, don’t do it unless she’s your gf, or well on her way to that. An example of high risk is the one Chateau gave of Zeets intervening after watching the guy in a couple slapping a girl. It particularly would be if he’s ghetto. (As well I personally don’t regard a girl getting open handed slapped as the biggest deal in the world. Doesn’t hurt her and he does reassert his dominance (in a rather uncreative, low IQ way) if she’s been super in his face.)

    Like


  162. Like


  163. Walawala–

    Yeah AB Dada’s and itsme advice was good.

    What you’ve been describing you doing with your LTR isn’t white knighting or defending her, it’s mate guarding her. It’s beta or greater beta. It’s less beta than just letting her walk all over you though. Having to do that too much means you’ve backslide, yeah.

    the view I take is that I don’t mind my girl flirting or doing it up to a point in front of me, but I majorly don’t like and won’t tolerate her doing it in a manner that disrespects me or fails to show loyalty to me.

    Flirting to for her to get the thrill and validation is fine, and I don’t mind her showing me that other lots of attractive other guys want her. That’s ok if she also shows them and me that they can’t have her.

    Giving out her number to guys who’ve hit on her is NOT ok, nor is taking theirs. She can just tell them that she has a bf and she doesn’t give out her number. That’s how quality girls act, tell her. You should spell this out.

    Do not have it as your frame that everything should be even steven. If she wants to be your number one girl she can’t be seeing other guys or going on vacation alone. You could never fall in love with a girl that was doing that while seeing you. You’re a man and it’s different. You are not a feminist. It’s best to hint at this stuff rather than have a long draw out discussion.

    Avoid heated arguments. Just refuse to continue talking about something if she can’t talk about it rationally and calmly. Tell her you will when she can.

    And yeah, be seeing another girl.

    Like


  164. walawala: In my case when she said “I’m pissed off”.. my reaction was “ok, cool gotta go now…” No hint of passive aggressive in my voice. That part was the hardest. But I pulled it off.

    One of the best responses to a woman’s shit test is “ok, cool.” This seems to work well for me, I’ve been doing it for years without conscious thought. “I’ve been ready for over an hour!” “Ok, cool.” or “I stayed up waiting for you to call!” “Ok, cool.” That’s all you really need to say in some shit test circumstances. Glad you’re getting hand back. Don’t fear losing a gal over ignoring her — if she bails, did you really want her in the first place? We want women who fight themselves and their friends for our sake.

    doug1: Yeah, think what’s in it for me. I wouldn’t say where’s my profit. I’d say something like, well if I do you’ll owe me. Or I’d say that if I wanted to do it ‘cause of IOI’s. If I hadn’t gotten any, yeah I’d say “what’s in it for me?”

    Plenty of women I meet through friends, clients and fans already know that I’m an anarcho-capitalist agorist: I’m all about personal profit (without actively hurting anyone). All my relationships — friends, even family, the dames, customers — are about what I gain and what I give up. I will NO give up more than I receive, that’s just stupid thinking, hence I use the term profit. In a voluntary transaction with someone else (buying a beer at a bar, sleeping with a girl, etc), both parties should gain a profit from the transaction. This is no zero sum game. The minute I feel like I’m not gaining something, I end the relationship (even with customers). If the woman doesn’t feel like she’s gaining something, she’s going to end it also, but her inner brain (hamster) knows what she’s gaining even if her outer brain (shit tester) doesn’t.

    Like


  165. on June 3, 2011 at 6:27 pm CatoRenasci

    Anonymous: I will NO give up more than I receive, that’s just stupid thinking, hence I use the term profit. In a voluntary transaction with someone else (buying a beer at a bar, sleeping with a girl, etc), both parties should gain a profit from the transaction. This is no zero sum game. The minute I feel like I’m not gaining something, I end the relationship (even with customers).

    and, on this forum you’re getting an ego stroke…..

    Like


  166. @Anonymous

    Violence against a man (who turned out to be a West Point cadet) because he walked too close to a female celebrity’s suitcase:

    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7592273.html

    Patti LaBelle seems to think that she’s Winnie Mandela. Allegedly giving orders to her gang of thugs to do her dirty work. And then of course, the white knights in their blue uniforms posing for pictures with her while the real victim’s blood still lies spilled on the sidewalk beside them.

    Like


  167. Why, Roissy, why so many alpha men give up around 35 and marry a strong willed, bossy woman and become pussy-whipped betas?
    WHY?

    Like


  168. Good post chateau.

    If you think about it feminists theoretically (ie. if they weren’t full of shit) should hate White knights as they demean women’s equality.

    If you treat a women as a person (in terms of actual equality) white knighting becomes impossible as they are as responsible for their actions as any man would be. And thus at fault for their bullshit and thus no reason to white knight.

    Like


  169. I think some people miss the point that if some dude pulled shit on your bro and you would do shit for your bro and in the same scenario some dude pulled shit on your girl or w/e it isn’t really white knighting. Assuming the relationship with the girl is similar and actions taken are similar.

    Like


  170. Don’t go out of your way for a woman, f*ck ’em. They won’t respect you if you do.

    “Never run after a woman or a bus, they’ll always be another one along in few minutes.”
    — W.C. Fields

    Like


  171. […] – “Low Energy Younger Women“, “White Knighting Explained“, “Shaming […]

    Like


  172. typical clevel l’enfant terrible analysis… one point studiously avoided: white knighting persists because white knighting (sometimes) works. No good deed goes unpunished isn’t a universal axiom. Sometimes (generally among younger/less self-destructive idealistic romantic types)… they are weened on the ideology of SEEKING a knight in shining armor. admittedly, this is rare, and most kindness is viewed with contempt, but not always because some women are capable of genuine appreciation and gratefulness. White knighting is more effective when alphas are outside of the picture to tempt her and is an effective tool when used judiciously.

    Like


  173. Sure, white nighting is only affordable to folk badass enough to get away with it. Anyone else just looks like a sucker for being generous.

    Like


  174. Remember that White Knighting is basically defined as putting other men down to build yourself up. It’s not opening doors or standing for women on a bus, which is called Chivalry (also something you shouldn’t do too much). But a cool guy will always stand for someone’s grandmother or overweight mom.

    Like


  175. To all the Slavic skinheads out there: stay out of India you freaks.

    Like


  176. @ Jason

    If you think about it feminists theoretically (ie. if they weren’t full of shit) should hate White knights as they demean women’s equality.

    Ah, but you’re assuming that women think logically.

    Like


  177. I guess the only women who deserve some white knighting are the ones who live in a way to hardly ever need it.

    Like


  178. someone just sent me to your blog after reading mine. Are we the same person but of the opposite sex?? I am not sure, read my blog, It Isn’t Slutty If You’re Wearing Pearls, and see what I mean. http://monicafay.wordpress.com

    Like


  179. @monicafay

    In four words, NO

    Like


  180. Ahhh white europeans. I wonder if other empires went out of their way to make minorities feel good about themselves.

    Patrice Oneal did a bit on a radio show about how white people love feeling bad and he is 100% right about that.

    @monicafay

    I have no idea where you got this idea and wearing pearls won’t hide the filthy whore pig that you are. Only women imagine these things make sense.

    You’re all whores. There, you got a few hits, whore.

    Like


  181. on July 13, 2011 at 6:37 am superenigma

    Why on this blog is there widespread adovacy of male infidelity in a relationship (see comments by Migz and itsme) but if the girl cheats it is an unforgivable sin? Have any of you ever actually been in a relationship? Most women don’t react positively to attempts to prove how alpha you are by bedding other women.

    Like


  182. on July 13, 2011 at 6:45 am superenigma

    Likewise @Doug1

    “She can just tell them that she has a bf and she doesn’t give out her number. That’s how quality girls act, tell her. You should spell this out.

    If she wants to be your number one girl she can’t be seeing other guys or going on vacation alone. You could never fall in love with a girl that was doing that while seeing you.

    And yeah, be seeing another girl.”

    Maybe I need some ‘education’ but this just don’t make sense to me. If you expect and receive exclusivity it is only right to give it back.

    Like


  183. @Superenigma

    You’re female and raised in the west, correct? Any man could tell instantly that this forum advocates the same double standard that existed for six million years before feminists started to ask for “equality”. There is no equality of desire to play the field. Women prefer commitment to playing the field. Because women, who are sexually attractive to the opposite sex for only a short period based on looks alone, value commitment from a single man much more highly than men value commitment, the only viable modus operandi between the sexes is that a man will at least pretend to commit in exchange for total loyalty while he discretely gets off with a variety of women but hangs out mostly with the one who is loyal to him.

    That’s common sense. But feminism has failed women (ruined the lives of hundreds of millions of them) by pretending that it’s not apples and oranges but apples and apples, which is what you’re doing now.

    On your other question, alphas don’t try to “prove” to their main girlfriends that they are getting other women. Alpha is defined by how well a guy does with women, not by rubbing any woman’s face in his success with other women (nor by bragging to other men).

    Like


  184. @Superenigma

    On another thread you just implied that you are male. If so, note that it isn’t equal for you and a woman to both commit. For her, it’s the desired end goal to get a man to do that. With you, it’s a sacrifice that you might do but, truth be told, if you could be sent back in time to inherit King Solomon’s wives and concubines, you’d take the inheritance. The host of this blog teaches you how to replicate what King Solomon did on a lesser scale. As you get more options because of what you learned here, the sacrifice of committing to someone would get that much greater.

    Like


  185. on July 13, 2011 at 8:09 pm superenigma

    Yes I am a man, from the west. I understand the differences between the sexes. Unlike feminists I agree that most of the routine double standards are biologically determined. But I think that the kind of deceptive behaviour advocated here goes far beyond that.

    I have noticed that on this forum there is a widespread delusion that before feminism came to the world, men were encouraged to “sow their wild oats” and rack up a high partner count before committing to one woman. In reality male promiscuity was almost as frowned upon as that of the female. And only then because it is immediately obvious when a girl is fucked for the first time, whereas a guy can hide it.

    If “the only viable modus operandi between the sexes is that a man will at least pretend to commit in exchange for total loyalty”, then the man is breaking his side of the contract. That is dishonorable and I am again forced to ask why you advocate such deception?

    If you ask for total loyalty, give commitment in return. You did define this as the modus operandi yourself. The girl who falls in love with the guy who is seeing another girl on the side is just as foolish as the hapless beta in love with the cheating woman.

    Like